Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Life Advice => Topic started by: EuchreJack on November 08, 2021, 02:29:55 am

Title: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: EuchreJack on November 08, 2021, 02:29:55 am
I'm a bit appalled that even though my laptop meets all the specs, the CPU is too old to be on the list and is thus rated as not Windows 11 compatible.  So I can manually install, and suffer system instability that will inevitably result, or get a new computer.  Several actually, since I run a small business (Protip: don't run a small business).

Oh, but they're continuing support for Windows 10 you say? HA HA HA, wonder how long that will last.

Ok, I'll let everyone jump in, I've ranted enough.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: wierd on November 08, 2021, 07:16:02 am
Just use linux.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: Ziusudra on November 08, 2021, 02:38:48 pm
They say support will last until 2025.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: nenjin on November 08, 2021, 03:16:05 pm
I found a running process on my PC called PCHealth.exe.

Couldn't kill it from the Task Manager, was told it's "open in another folder."

Doesn't show up in my Control Panel as an installed program. Usually a huge red flag.

Procexp.exe couldn't find a running file path. (Usually a dead give away to shenanigans.)

My own administrator account was not allowed to change user-level permissions against the .exe. Now I'm getting paranoid.

So I go to the program folder and start renaming DLLs and deleting .exes, some of which I can and some of which I can't. Starting to think it's time to boot in safe mode and do all the usual "i've been compromised" routine.

But I google around and find out its a stand alone application for Microsoft to check your system compatibility for Win11.

It's just like when Microsoft created a stand alone process to monitor and attempt to get you to upgrade to Win10.

Dear MS,

If you're going to do this shit, at the very least can you NOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE FUCKING PIECE OF MALWARE IN EVERY WAY, SHAPE AND FORM.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: Ziusudra on November 08, 2021, 03:31:37 pm
Huh, I had to manually install and run that program to find out why this laptop wasn't compatible (i5 CPU). I was then able uninstall it with out issue. Maybe we hav different update settings.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: Starver on November 08, 2021, 03:55:13 pm
They said that there would never be a successor to Windows 10... ;)

I was going to treat myself to a new machine (self-build) for Windows-only use, this Christmas, and maybe a lesser sibling for someone else to migrate to once I was sure I hadn't missed some of the latest compatability issues that you inevitably get by sourcing components separately.

I might let that wait now. Neither setting up a 7/10 (with the imminent 11 on the way) nor preparing a 11 from scratch (once available) seems like an attractive prospect right now. So I'll stick with my current menagerie. But I'll be very interested in any conversation that arises here. Perhaps I'll go back to plan A as a result.



As regular readers should know, as well as some non-MS[1] installs, I'm still running a number of XP machines in various legacy capacities and even one with 2K. I deal with the issues that inevitably result by a combination of sheer bloody-mindedness and not a little tweaking and cursing at times.


Re: PCHealth thing... Reminds me of the jdbgmgr.exe Teddy-Bear thing. But also one of the reasons I've been not overly enamoured of MS for a while now. And apparently they've recently topped the financial lists again, so must be smhgly unstoppable without any help from me.




[1] And nothing at all from the Apple-cart. A very big gap in my knowledge, which I really should fill but it's always remained an unattractive option for personal use so my experience remains untested and unstimulated almost since the Apple ][... ;)
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: delphonso on November 08, 2021, 07:51:49 pm
Just use linux.

I made the full switch about a week before Windows 11 leaked and was so smug for that week.

With regards to forced upgrades - I enjoyed this article from hackaday (https://hackaday.com/2021/06/29/the-great-windows-11-computer-extinction-experiment/) on the topic.

Overall, yeah - I think 2025 is a fair window for people to upgrade. I would have upgraded by now, but graphics card prices are still borked here because of the crypto-surge.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: wierd on November 08, 2021, 08:08:57 pm
I do in fact need to upgrade my laptop.  The issue though, is not with the CPU, but with intel's shit gpu.

Intel shit GPUs are like a cancer in the market for suitable laptops-- not all discrete solutions are prohibitively expensive, but the OEMs dont want to use them, because they can more sharply reduce unit costs through straight up omission. (since they can use the shit GPU inside the CPU.)  This means that a stark disproportionality exists, where there are lots of intel GPUs out there, and almost no offerings with those less expensive discrete chips (that perform better.)

EG, I am upset at the proportion of midrange offers that vomit the intel GPU, and nothing else. Its like being forced to use Dollar General like a grocery store, because no other offers are in your service area.  DollarGeneral causes food deserts, Intel makes graphics option deserts.

I am waiting for the fallout of the great resignation to force wage alignments, and the market to settle, before throwing down the extra moolah for something without the intel shit gpu.

Until then, there's clever abuse of the mesa rendering pipeline, and linux.


Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: EuchreJack on November 09, 2021, 01:47:16 am
I found a running process on my PC called PCHealth.exe.

....

Dear MS,

If you're going to do this shit, at the very least can you NOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE FUCKING PIECE OF MALWARE IN EVERY WAY, SHAPE AND FORM.
Uh, they can't do that, since it basically IS Malware.  You didn't install it, you can't delete it, you don't get to know about it, it just appears, and it solely exists to get you go buy into their software.  If it didn't come from Microsoft, I think it WOULD be classified as Malware. (EDIT: Ok, maybe its just Spyware or Adware)

Its like being forced to use Dollar General like a grocery store, because no other offers are in your service area.

Oh, that totally happens.  Dollar General is still a step up from the Gas Station, however.  Using the Gas Station like a grocery store would be like using a cell phone because you can't get a computer.  Ah, the great divide(s).

Also, sadly I do need to upgrade all my computers.  It's just, I can't afford it at this moment.  Kinda need to try and squeak another year out of as many of my computers as I can.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: King Zultan on November 09, 2021, 04:15:52 am
As far as I can tell win10 has been this weird OS/spyware thing since it was first released and I don't get why people want it or would want to get win11 which will probably be the same thing but even worse.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: nenjin on November 09, 2021, 01:53:29 pm
Saw a thing that MS has temporarily disabled the PCHealth checker. Apparently I wasn't the only one pissed off about it.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: EuchreJack on November 09, 2021, 02:04:30 pm
Saw a thing that MS has temporarily disabled the PCHealth checker. Apparently I wasn't the only one pissed off about it.
...and now MS controls whether or not we can use the program they forced us to have on our computers.  I mean, it had marginal utility.  It could say whether or not your rig would likely support Windows 11, and why.  Now users can't check that, even though they might now be curious about it.

Hopefully, MS will get scared into increasing its list of supported systems for Windows 11.  While I haven't loved Windows 10, I did like how it was possible to install for free upon older systems (if they had the space to install it).
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2021, 02:29:02 pm
Saw a thing that MS has temporarily disabled the PCHealth checker. Apparently I wasn't the only one pissed off about it.
...and now MS controls whether or not we can use the program they forced us to have on our computers.  I mean, it had marginal utility.  It could say whether or not your rig would likely support Windows 11, and why.  Now users can't check that, even though they might now be curious about it.

Hopefully, MS will get scared into increasing its list of supported systems for Windows 11.  While I haven't loved Windows 10, I did like how it was possible to install for free upon older systems (if they had the space to install it).

Now MS controls...? They always have. They had a similar setup for the 10 upgrade. They snuck in an update just to install the "can you upgrade to 10" software that always ran. Free garbage is still garbage.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: nenjin on November 09, 2021, 04:23:36 pm
IIRC, you can still manually download and install the PC Health checker.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: King Zultan on November 10, 2021, 03:26:10 am
Free garbage is still garbage.
I figured that when money hungry Microsoft gave win10 away for free that it must be complete shit.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2021, 10:08:32 pm
Free garbage is still garbage.
I figured that when money hungry Microsoft gave win10 away for free that it must be complete shit.

10 was free because 8 was so bad. It was a damage control update and name change to drop a toxic label.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: Ulfarr on November 15, 2021, 08:57:41 am
It was free because the end user had nothing to gain from getting it. Win10 was at best a blatant attempt to reduce microsoft's maintance costs while offering a bad product. Had they charged for it, the outrage from the shitshow that was Win10's launch would have been far far greater.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: nenjin on November 17, 2021, 12:05:24 pm
I always thought the point of Windows 10 was delivering in-OS advertisements and links to Microsoft services.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: Schmaven on November 17, 2021, 12:18:43 pm
I heard an internet connection will be required for all Windows 11.  No local account option like 10 has.  That's reason enough for me to avoid it.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: EuchreJack on November 17, 2021, 12:21:05 pm
"But sometimes I don't want to be online"
Microsoft: "You must connect all the time."

...when do they offer the free blue tooth upgrade?  :P
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: King Zultan on November 18, 2021, 03:51:05 am
A laptop that needs to always be online to use sounds like it would be the most useless piece of shit where I live because our internet isn't very reliable.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: delphonso on November 18, 2021, 03:55:08 am
Yeah, as a commuter that is very unappealing. I would expect it to be similar to Steam, though. You just have to sort of wait for it to not connect and then lets you sign in without internet.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: wierd on November 18, 2021, 03:58:47 am
But (somehow, in some manner we will gloss over) using a microsoft account unstead of a local one is so much more secure, that it would be unconscionable to allow you to use anything else, valued user!

Please, enjoy these preloaded and curated applications that have been tested by our teams, and which we feel will best suit your user experience needs! Dont worry, if you somehow uninstall them, we will reinstall them for you on the next feature update! We will even set them as the default handler for you, because we know all about how those  OTHER vendors try to trick you! Be sure to try our new and improved Edge browser (which is really chrome inside a proprietary wrapper without your ability to code audit!) which you cant bypass now, because we care so much about your security!

Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: Starver on November 18, 2021, 05:49:06 am
To be honest, a lot of Android stuff I come across can be stuffy about not being connected[1], and not having your GPS on[2], and not signed on more specifically[3].

The Android system itself has a couple[4] of niggles[5], that I have to live with (could just be this maunfacturer-flavour of this version, but also coincidentally cropped up in prior incarnations) and get used to. It's the Future Of (The Internet Of) Things!


Sorry, a bit of an Android moan there, and I know I'm a bit of a skewed-technoluddite on various matters. But if in any way Windows is trying to get into the same vein (they are... having failed to get Windows Mobile sufficiently like their desktop product, they seem to instead have been intent on making their desktop versions more phonelike to meet (more than) half way) then they're removing what I always thought worked. Or maybe they're just going more Mac-like (getting as close as they can to removing Apple's distinctiveness without repeating some of the '80s/'90s accusations of copying GUI philosophies) which, given the similar iOS/OSX linkage and "gotta look more 'swish' and fresh" aesthetic drive, goes the same way and only goes to overshadow the operational changes in the background that are actually more significant/pernicious to someone like me.

But I'm not the masses. The target audience will probably judge it all a good thing, over all. Or be forced to.


Spoiler: Feetnete (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: wierd on November 18, 2021, 06:39:57 am
I will just hawk this here.

https://github.com/LineageOS

https://download.lineageos.org/

If there is something you dont like, you can change it, compile, and flash.

Good luck getting that out of Apple.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: delphonso on November 18, 2021, 07:20:22 am
Well. I recently upgraded phones...and that other one is just sitting there...and this weekend? Well nothing important...

Must resist urge to dabble in more OSes.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: BigD145 on November 18, 2021, 03:10:17 pm
When Steam does its daily update it not only takes forever to go from disconnected to connected if you had it on, but if you try to boot it up from scratch while the server is basically down you can't even get into offline mode (you'll be looped into the login window and obviously unable to proceed) way too often. Sometimes Steam tries to stay on but is completely useless and you have to force quit from the task manager. For the Seattle server it's around 3-4PM Pacific. This is your future with 11 even if you do have internet access.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: Schmaven on November 18, 2021, 04:06:29 pm
When Steam does its daily update it not only takes forever to go from disconnected to connected if you had it on, but if you try to boot it up from scratch while the server is basically down you can't even get into offline mode (you'll be looped into the login window and obviously unable to proceed) way too often. Sometimes Steam tries to stay on but is completely useless and you have to force quit from the task manager. For the Seattle server it's around 3-4PM Pacific. This is your future with 11 even if you do have internet access.

A bit off topic, but I found a user config file in my steam folder where changing wantsofflinemode from a 0 to a 1 gets you straight into the offline mode startup.  I just made a shortcut to that file next to the regular steam shortcut for simplicity.
Title: Re: Windows 11: Microsoft's newest attempt to force you to upgrade your computer
Post by: delphonso on November 28, 2021, 07:39:11 pm
Stardock's Start11 (https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/) allows you to basically revert Windows 11's desktop environment to Windows 10. I love when a company can sell a product to remove "features" of a product.