Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => General Discussion => Topic started by: Scoops Novel on December 23, 2021, 03:14:08 pm

Title: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 23, 2021, 03:14:08 pm

When was the last time you could have a real Manhood? (And now i'm curious about Womanhood)

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Egan_BW on December 23, 2021, 03:33:43 pm

What nonsense.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 23, 2021, 05:01:15 pm

Please elocute. Society definitely doesn't back up a full expression of your fullness, and hasn't for a while.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: WealthyRadish on December 23, 2021, 05:05:32 pm

Quote from: Novel Scoops on December 23, 2021, 03:14:08 pm

When was the last time you could have a real Manhood?

You used to have to go to special bars to get it, but now I think people just use an app.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 23, 2021, 06:47:02 pm

Quote from: Novel Scoops on December 23, 2021, 05:01:15 pm

Please elocute. Society definitely doesn't back up a full expression of your fullness, and hasn't for a while.

We experience manhood in a society

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 23, 2021, 07:21:12 pm

We really do.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: MaxTheFox on December 23, 2021, 11:32:58 pm

Quote from: Novel Scoops on December 23, 2021, 03:14:08 pm

When was the last time you could have a real Manhood?

There's a childish joke here somewhere but I can't find it. Argh.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 24, 2021, 12:08:38 am

Quote from: MaxTheFox on December 23, 2021, 11:32:58 pm

Quote from: Novel Scoops on December 23, 2021, 03:14:08 pm

When was the last time you could have a real Manhood?

There's a childish joke here somewhere but I can't find it. Argh.

ur mum experienced my manhood

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: King Zultan on December 24, 2021, 01:17:27 am

What kind of questions are these?

Quote from: Novel Scoops

You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...

I'm pretty sure loads of people experienced this.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: EuchreJack on December 24, 2021, 08:56:15 am

I can't remember my childhood in the 80's, and my teenagerhood sucked in the 90's.  Real my ass.

But I'm a Real Man^TM now.  Have been for at least the last five years.

Don't push your preconceptions on me, Mister.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Personally, I don't think a person's birth genital arrangement has any bearing on whether they are a Real Man.  I mean, yeah I was born a male, but I don't see that as a requirement to being a Real Man.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Egan_BW on December 24, 2021, 09:52:53 am

Quote from: Novel Scoops on December 23, 2021, 05:01:15 pm

Please elocute. Society definitely doesn't back up a full expression of your fullness, and hasn't for a while.

First you said some silly cultural stereotypes about people born at different times, but this sentence doesn't even parse.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 24, 2021, 12:18:06 pm

Please expand. Society is a obstacle to enjoying, and realising, your maturity, and i'm wondering when it hasn't been.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: None on December 24, 2021, 12:42:58 pm

You've got it backwards, maturity is the result of society, not impeded by society. You're going to have explain what your obstacle to maturity is, or how you prefer to enjoy and realize it, and what the fuck it has to do with manhood/womanhood (or whatever that means, you've explained nearly nothing) in particular. Sex? Adulthood? Parenthood? Matriarchal/patriarchal power dynamics? Having the agency to serve yourself a bowl of ice cream precisely whenever you want it?

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: wierd on December 24, 2021, 12:44:09 pm

Never.

Full explanation:

A society is an aggregation on many people, from all walks of life, all ages, all genders, and all creeds.

An individual society is differentiated from other societies, based on the mores it has adopted.

Since those mores represent the "most people in the society agree this is right or proper", it is practically impossible for a single individual within that society to 100% align.

What you, as an individual, consider "being a man" is not guaranteed to match what the social more for that status is.  As you alluded to, these mores shift and change with the popular consensus. Compare: Gay marriage now, Vs 60 years ago.

Since your odds of being a 100% perfect match for any articular society's mores is basically 0%, the answer to your question is "never."

To fully maximize the self, one would have to abandon the society. This comes with a lot of downsides, as societies form for real and important reasons, not the least of which being specialist labor and collective resource and security availability.

Armed with that knowledge, an informed individual needs to make an informed choice about which, if any, society BEST fits them, then emigrate and naturalize accordingly.

(Amusingly, this is one of the reasons to not support a homogeneous world government. But dont let the neoliberals hear you.)

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Duuvian on December 24, 2021, 12:50:57 pm

I think that to that conclusion Socrates disagrees in Book II of Plato's Republic, when he describes the formation of a state (or society) and the benefits it confers to the individual who must otherwise become good at everything rather than specialize and trade labors. While this later was proven to not always be the case with the rise of the polymaths much later, it does still hold water for the most part imo.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: wierd on December 24, 2021, 01:00:53 pm

I do believe division of labor was lamplit.

Assuming one is CAPABLE of doing ALL the work, or at least, is CAPABLE, of engaging a nearby society's specialists without joining that society, it would be possible to 100% manifest a true self without compromise.

Again, though, that is not a position most people would find themselves able to leverage.

Hence, the "informed decision."

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Duuvian on December 24, 2021, 01:18:19 pm

What happens f they take your stuff though?

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: EuchreJack on December 24, 2021, 01:21:13 pm

Quote from: Duuvian on December 24, 2021, 01:18:19 pm

What happens f they take your stuff though?

Then they are a True Government.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: wierd on December 24, 2021, 01:21:35 pm

Collective security was ALSO lamplit.

The danger a society has to a lone individual cannot be overstated. Societies tend toward briggandry, when the members collectively agree it is in thier interest.

See also:

China V Uigur people
USGovt V Native American nations
Russia V Ukraine

The best defense a single individual has against a briggand society, is to go unnoticed.

I am rather curious why you keep bringing things up I specifically lamplit as being bad, as if they somehow negate what I said.

The third lamplit item, to avoid part three of this exchange, is collective resource availability.

A society is able to leverage the resources of a vast territory efficiently, where a single individual cannot. A society can thus have inexpensive access to a wealth of raw materials that the individual will not.  Again, this is one of the downsides of being stateless/entirely sovereign.  Most people would find the combination of the three lamplit items completely unworkable, which is why the informed decision is about which society BEST FITS, and then emigrate to that society.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: scriver on December 24, 2021, 01:30:39 pm

Those are all societies vs societies though

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: wierd on December 24, 2021, 01:33:56 pm

There is a well known instance of illegal seizure of property in NY against an individual.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hess_triangle#:~:text=The%20Hess%20triangle%20is%20a,Seventh%20Avenue%20and%20Christopher%20Street.

Imminent domain against a single member of a society, or against an outside alien to that society (and no, you do not actually need a specific example, the shoe fits all those feet the same. But if you simply MUST have one, consider the illegal pretext used by the UK to pressgang american civilians in the 1700s.) Is simply a manifestation of that agreed interest, justifying the brigandry.

You have something the rest of the society wants.
They agree to take it from you.
They take it.

Again, the best defense is to go unnoticed; then the society does not know you have something it wants, and the brigandry never happens.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Duuvian on December 24, 2021, 01:46:08 pm

In Epictetus's Discourses he says something similar somewhere, that the best defense a single individual has against a brigand society, is to behave well in accordance with what he calls right principles. However I will admit his Stoicism is TOUGH and I cannot claim to not be mildly injured at some of his crotchety criticisms of his students.

You make many fine points on unfairness however, and by doing so there is the potential for you to influence society, as humbly as that may be. In isolation there may be less hope to rectify in the long term that which would cause your retreat.

EDIT: The exception would be the pandemic, that would seem to be a good time to isolate individually during to some degree if possible.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Frumple on December 24, 2021, 01:46:57 pm

Quote from: Novel Scoops on December 24, 2021, 12:18:06 pm

Please expand. Society is a obstacle to enjoying, and realising, your maturity, and i'm wondering when it hasn't been.

Never. Not having it also an obstacle to whatever it is you think you're talking about. It's an unreachable goal through any means and always has been. Contentment comes when you have sufficient security for your tastes and realize the maturity game is and always was horseshit (except even less useful, as you can at least burn horseshit for fuel :V).

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: EuchreJack on December 24, 2021, 02:03:37 pm

Ahem, perhaps my discourse on What It Means to Be a Man has value.

A Man is self-defined.  If you need someone else to tell you that you are a Man, then you are a Boy.
It is only when you can defiantly stop seeking Society's approval that you transcend from Boy to Man.

Richard Kipling's If poem sums it up well. (https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---)
The age of the poem, and its relevance today, speaks volumes.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 24, 2021, 06:16:48 pm

Nature is nature is nature, Self is the self is the self. It has to be realized. And you're not always lucky enough for that to be automatic, though it *should* be automatic. That's why i'm going on about circumstances.

Really being a fucking man is something that you can and could figure out how to do. I consider myself some level of quasi-man, to be honest.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 24, 2021, 11:34:15 pm

a fucking man?

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Frumple on December 24, 2021, 11:58:05 pm

Truly even the ground may be fornicated, given sufficient care. You can and people could indeed figure out how to bang as a man. Also as a woman and as any other survivable configurations or inclinations, for that matter. Tool users est!

They can even choose not to, and in doing so fuck even fucking itself! Plato would be proud. Fornication is both action and inaction, a state of being and of mind. A fucking man, indeed. Perhaps they're even on fire.

...

i discarded a donated book once because of that fetish. also due to everything else about it, but the graphic pyrophilia definitely tilted the scales a bit

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: hector13 on December 25, 2021, 12:21:49 am

Quote from: MaxTheFox on December 23, 2021, 11:32:58 pm

Quote from: Novel Scoops on December 23, 2021, 03:14:08 pm

When was the last time you could have a real Manhood?

There's a childish joke here somewhere but I can't find it. Argh.

“The last time I looked down mate.”

I have ignored everything between MtF’s post and this one.

Except the pyrophilia. That sounds… unwise. Something you could probably only do once, depending on the manifestation.

There’s also a character in a Tartan noir novel I’ve read a few times who, now knowing this appears to be a thing, is a pyrophiliac.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: George_Chickens on December 25, 2021, 02:21:16 am

We live in a society.
Bottom text.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: King Zultan on December 25, 2021, 03:16:24 am

Quote from: Frumple on December 24, 2021, 11:58:05 pm

pyrophilia

So is that about fucking while on fire or fucking things that are on fire?

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: wierd on December 25, 2021, 03:27:53 am

Or getting off while setting things on fire.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Vector on December 25, 2021, 03:34:05 am

You know, I placed second in the forum masculinity competition we held here way back when. . .

From that seat of authority I'm going to say "this is a silly question."

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: George_Chickens on December 25, 2021, 04:57:16 am

Quote from: King Zultan on December 25, 2021, 03:16:24 am

Quote from: Frumple on December 24, 2021, 11:58:05 pm

pyrophilia

So is that about fucking while on fire or fucking things that are on fire?

I read this from the corner of my eye and thought it said "fucking cats while on fire". I have no idea where the 'cats' was inserted from.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: scriver on December 25, 2021, 07:57:27 am

Quote from: EuchreJack on December 24, 2021, 02:03:37 pm

Ahem, perhaps my discourse on What It Means to Be a Man has value.

A Man is self-defined.  If you need someone else to tell you that you are a Man, then you are a Boy.
It is only when you can defiantly stop seeking Society's approval that you transcend from Boy to Man.

Richard Kipling's If poem sums it up well. (https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---)
The age of the poem, and its relevance today, speaks volumes.

Behold! A Man!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Anonymous_-_Diogenes_brings_a_plucked_chicken_to_Plato.jpg)

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: wierd on December 25, 2021, 08:08:14 am

Those classical period philosophers and their jokes!

Such merry times we once had!

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Frumple on December 25, 2021, 08:17:59 am

Quote from: King Zultan on December 25, 2021, 03:16:24 am

Quote from: Frumple on December 24, 2021, 11:58:05 pm

pyrophilia

So is that about fucking while on fire or fucking things that are on fire?

Quote from: wierd on December 25, 2021, 03:27:53 am

Or getting off while setting things on fire.

Yes. There's also while near/inside burning things, like banging in a burning disco or somethin'. Fire in general, if there's terms for specific uses of it I'm unaware of them. It's an unusually flexible term for a fetish you'd think would be pretty precise.

Iirc the book in question was mostly "while on fire", but I could have memory holed it due to neither wanting nor needing to retain the details :V

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: scriver on December 25, 2021, 08:50:43 am

Come on baby light my fire

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: hector13 on December 25, 2021, 09:05:01 am

Relight me fire.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Magmacube_tr on December 25, 2021, 07:20:17 pm

Is this a 'Murican thing that I am too "Foreigner" to understand?

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: Il Palazzo on December 25, 2021, 07:42:34 pm

Now you're a Man! A man man man. Now you're a ma-man. A ma-ma-ma-ma-man. Now you're a man, M-A-N man. Man man man man. Now you're a Man.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: wierd on December 25, 2021, 08:07:53 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on December 25, 2021, 07:42:34 pm

Now you're a Man! A man man man. Now you're a ma-man. A ma-ma-ma-ma-man. Now you're a man, M-A-N man. Man man man man. Now you're a Man.

No ManMan! Not the fish scales! Anything but that! (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IC6IaK5t6Og)

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: EuchreJack on December 25, 2021, 10:38:35 pm

Quote from: wierd on December 25, 2021, 08:07:53 pm

Quote from: Il Palazzo on December 25, 2021, 07:42:34 pm

Now you're a Man! A man man man. Now you're a ma-man. A ma-ma-ma-ma-man. Now you're a man, M-A-N man. Man man man man. Now you're a Man.

No ManMan! Not the fish scales! Anything but that! (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IC6IaK5t6Og)

...ok, I'm done being a Real Man.

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: King Zultan on December 26, 2021, 02:15:29 am

Does He-Man count as a real man?

Title: Re: You could have a real childhood in the 80's, a real teenagerhood in the 90's...
Post by: scriver on December 26, 2021, 04:42:38 am

No, but Prince Adam does :P