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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: webadict on March 12, 2022, 11:57:47 am

Title: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: webadict on March 12, 2022, 11:57:47 am
Game Quick Bookmarks:
Day 1: Murder Most Foul (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360641#msg8360641)
Day 1 Execution: Vector's Crimes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362101#msg8362101)
Night 1: Count of Voté (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362111#msg8362111)
Day 2: Tricky Magic (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362378#msg8362378)
Night 2: Lizard Wizard (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363678#msg8363678)
Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363927#msg8363927)
Night 3 : No One Lives Forever (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365112#msg8365112)
Day 4: Maximum Sin (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365368#msg8365368)
Day 4 Execution: 4maskwolf's Crimes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366145#msg8366145)
Night 4: Codename: Masked Wolf (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366187#msg8366187)
Day 5: Toon World (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366531#msg8366531)

From the maker of mostly viable games comes another mostly viable game!

It's Simple BYOR (2)!

Simple BYOR is pretty much exactly like a regular webadict BYOR, except I tune it down from the normal 11 levels to like a 6/10, or maybe a little lower.

For a simple BYOR, you merely pick anything that you want, be it a mythical animal, video game character, forumite, material, process, etc. Pick whatever you want, but be sure to include any information that might be helpful in making a role for you.

The rules are simple:
72:24 hour day-night cycles, weekends count for 24 hours, and any holidays are freebies.
Vote in red and bold, just to be safe. Do not use red for anything else.
Semi-hammers in effect. Day ends immediately when there are a majority of people voting for one player or for no execution. There is no discussion afterwards, except for last words.
Last words are in effect. The player that is chosen to be executed will have one post before being executed. After this post, no further discussion or Actions may take place.
No quoting your role PM. You may discuss any portion of your role and flavor, so long as it is paraphrased in your own words.
Send in your role when you sign-up.
Don't be a jerkface.
Follow the rules.

Pretty simple, right?

Spoiler: Basic rules (click to show/hide)

You are not in the game until I receive a role. Also, don't under- or overestimate your abilities. And have fun! Because, honestly, that's the whole point.

Also, for those without knowledge of how I style roles, here's a little cheat sheet! If you ask me one of these questions, I will not answer it.

Spoiler: Webadict on Roles (click to show/hide)


Spoiler: Webadict on Alignments (click to show/hide)

Players:
- 4maskwolf - The X-Com Project: Executed Day 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366187#msg8366187)
- EuchreJack - Lizard: Executed Day 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363678#msg8363678)
- Jim Groovester - Caps Lock Jim Groovester from Double Agent Micro Mafia: Died Night 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363927#msg8363927)
- Knightwing64 => notquitethere
- Maximum Spin - Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI): Died Night 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365112#msg8365112)
- Roden
- ToonyMan - Yami Yugi: Died Night 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366531#msg8366531)
- TricMagic
- Vector - Vote Count: Executed Day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362111#msg8362111)
Sign-up to join!

Spoiler: Roles (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2
Post by: TricMagic on March 12, 2022, 02:11:21 pm
Still Insanity webadict.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 12, 2022, 02:32:17 pm
IN
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2
Post by: Roden on March 12, 2022, 05:17:07 pm
In
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 12, 2022, 09:38:21 pm
In.

Predicting a town loss after trying to mechanically solve the game with imperfect information and a night 2 Jim kill.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 2 / 7+
Post by: EuchreJack on March 12, 2022, 09:43:58 pm
IN

I'll counter Jim's bet with a wager that Town will scrape out a win after a Night 1 Jim kill.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 3 / 7+
Post by: webadict on March 12, 2022, 10:59:21 pm
Remember: You're not in unless you send a role!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 3 / 7+
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 12, 2022, 11:56:39 pm
In
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 6 / 7+
Post by: Vector on March 13, 2022, 09:38:21 pm
Hmm. I guess I'll in.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 7 / 7+
Post by: webadict on March 14, 2022, 06:43:30 pm
I'll close the sign-ups on Wednesday and start it as soon as I finish roling. If anyone else wants to join, do so before then.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 7 / 7+
Post by: ToonyMan on March 15, 2022, 05:15:21 pm
I will join, I guess.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 7 / 7+
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 16, 2022, 02:47:27 am
I want to join, I just needed to think of a role.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 8 / 7+
Post by: EuchreJack on March 16, 2022, 09:03:53 am
I could certainly use another day or so before starting.
Yeah, thinking of a role was HARD. It had to be something fun that wouldn't be obvious. I think I just chose something that randomly occurred to me.
I shall Embrace Lamp, mightly champion of THE DESK~
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 9 / 7+
Post by: webadict on March 16, 2022, 09:20:26 am
Well, you're in luck because I'm not starting today. I'm just closing sign-ups. I have to finish baking, which will probably end up being Saturday.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 8 / 7+
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 16, 2022, 09:45:48 am
I could certainly use another day or so before starting.
Yeah, thinking of a role was HARD. It had to be something fun that wouldn't be obvious. I think I just chose something that randomly occurred to me.
I shall Embrace Lamp, mightly champion of THE DESK~

Really? It was pretty easy for me. I guess I read too much obscure fiction.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 8 / 7+
Post by: EuchreJack on March 16, 2022, 12:58:50 pm
I could certainly use another day or so before starting.
Yeah, thinking of a role was HARD. It had to be something fun that wouldn't be obvious. I think I just chose something that randomly occurred to me.
I shall Embrace Lamp, mightly champion of THE DESK~

Really? It was pretty easy for me. I guess I read too much obscure fiction.
Oh, how did you like my work?  :P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 8 / 7+
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 16, 2022, 03:50:34 pm
I could certainly use another day or so before starting.
Yeah, thinking of a role was HARD. It had to be something fun that wouldn't be obvious. I think I just chose something that randomly occurred to me.
I shall Embrace Lamp, mightly champion of THE DESK~

Really? It was pretty easy for me. I guess I read too much obscure fiction.
Oh, how did you like my work?  :P

You made a book? WHAT IS IT CALLED
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Sign Ups: 8 / 7+
Post by: EuchreJack on March 16, 2022, 04:14:12 pm
I could certainly use another day or so before starting.
Yeah, thinking of a role was HARD. It had to be something fun that wouldn't be obvious. I think I just chose something that randomly occurred to me.
I shall Embrace Lamp, mightly champion of THE DESK~

Really? It was pretty easy for me. I guess I read too much obscure fiction.
Oh, how did you like my work?  :P

You made a book? WHAT IS IT CALLED

Nowhere near a book, just a short story (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179315.0).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Baking Roles: [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 16, 2022, 09:39:18 pm
Converse amongst yourselves while I work with Keebler Elves to deliver you some roles that will satisfy your goals.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Baking Roles: [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 16, 2022, 10:18:20 pm
Converse amongst yourselves while I work with Keebler Elves to deliver you some roles that will satisfy your goals.
I look forward to the role that will allow me to win effortlessly. 
Many thanks to Santa Web and the Elves for these gifts that will allow me to destroy my enemies.
Amen.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Baking Roles: [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2022, 05:21:22 pm
TFW you already forgot what you sent in for your role
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Baking Roles: [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2022, 06:43:06 am
Vote Webadict for not starting the game yet.  :P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Baking Roles: [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 19, 2022, 07:55:43 am
Vote Webadict for not starting the game yet.  :P
+1
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Baking Roles: [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 19, 2022, 08:20:55 am
Vote Webadict for not starting the game yet.  :P
+1
+1
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Baking Roles: [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 19, 2022, 01:03:51 pm
Kids these days I swear...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Baking Roles: [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 19, 2022, 02:00:52 pm
It's still Saturday!

Also, I've been sick, so it is taking a bit longer, but I'm nearly done. The game should be started shortly.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Starting... [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 19, 2022, 04:24:49 pm
You look down at your blue invitation as you step before the gates to a small manor.  A butler meets at the door, takes your jacket and hands you a small mask before bowing and returning to the door.  You put the mask on and step into an ornate ballroom.

The party-goers dance and talk amongst themselves.  You have fun dining, dancing, and discussing before one of the butlers fetches you for an important invitation with the lord.  This was what you had been waiting for, words with the lord for what you wish.

As you step inside, you notice there are nine, including yourself.  You wait some time before you realize something is terribly wrong.  A man enters the room from a balcony wearing a monocle and a checkered hat, before bowing above you.

“I do not wish to take any more of your time than I am already currently taking, but it appears there’s been a murder most foul within these premises.  After examining the crime scene, I have deduced that it is very likely two among you nine.  I am, however, not the local constable in these parts, so the arrests are not for me to do.  However, I do enjoy small games, and as such, if you nine can deduce who among you were the killers, I will reward the seven innocents among you.  If you nine cannot, I will let the two murderers go.”  A few shocked gasps among the servants interrupts the man.  He motions for silence.  “Is this agreeable?”

The nine begin to argue that this could not possibly be fair, before he tosses a bloody knife over the railing, clattering to the ground.

“I could very well leave you to chance, instead.  This is your chance for rewards and escape.”

They each took turns looking between themselves and the knife.  You find it odd that there are so many among you that agree, wondering the rewards in store if you succeed.

The man pulls up a chair to the railing, sitting down.  “What steps will you take to find the killers?  How will you decide?  I’ll let this be your decision.”




Vote Count
—-----------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No Execution - 0 -

Not Voting - 9 - 4maskwolf, EuchreJack, Jim Groovester, Knightwing, Maximum Spin, Roden, ToonyMan, TricMagic, Vector,

5 To Hammer. Day Ends Thursday March 24, 2022 at 20:00.


It is now Day.

Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 19, 2022, 04:43:12 pm
And so the games begin EucrheJack. How much do you want to be kept alive?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 19, 2022, 05:31:40 pm
I got a mafia result on Roden.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 19, 2022, 05:39:20 pm
Jim Groovester is redpeeked, all aboard!

(Also I'm going to be out all evening so no significant posting from me tonight).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 19, 2022, 05:49:25 pm
EucrheJack

It’s basically tradition at this point
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 19, 2022, 05:49:57 pm
Interesting start. I will play to type as expected.

I am town. I don't think I believe ToonyMan.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 19, 2022, 05:53:20 pm
Interesting start. I will play to type as expected.

I am town. I don't think I believe ToonyMan.

But you believe me? <3
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 19, 2022, 05:54:46 pm
Oh noes, I spelt Jacks name wrong. The embarrassment…
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 19, 2022, 05:56:16 pm
The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2022, 06:04:46 pm
Ok, so I need to role claim that I inspect as Mafia, even though I am not.
I also possess some sort of investigative role, which I won't mention at this time.
Discuss
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 19, 2022, 06:07:56 pm
Befriends Jack.

So, things are already off to quite the start. Toony/4mask, you apparently
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2022, 06:10:20 pm
Befriends Jack.

So, things are already off to quite the start. Toony/4mask, you apparently
A true friend would stop voting me...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2022, 06:11:40 pm
The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.
I assume that it is just your crazy mafiascum.net style to accuse Jim without Jim even posting.
I find this offensive, as I can usually read Jim pretty well.
So 4maskwolf
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2022, 06:12:50 pm
Jim Groovester is redpeeked, all aboard!

(Also I'm going to be out all evening so no significant posting from me tonight).
Do you have any evidence, or is this just a random accusation.  Lack of clarity means I keep voting you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 19, 2022, 06:15:00 pm
The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.
I assume that it is just your crazy mafiascum.net style to accuse Jim without Jim even posting.
I find this offensive, as I can usually read Jim pretty well.
So 4maskwolf
Bruh.

Like, five levels of bruh.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2022, 06:18:51 pm
So, after decrypting my role, I'm basically an Ascetic that reads mafia.  I can't be roleblocked or tracked or seen by others, yet I can be inspected and will flip mafia.

While I'd make a fine policy lynch, I do have Tracker+ as my investigative ability. 
The Plus is reserved for tomorrow, if you should decide to keep me alive to prove that claim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2022, 06:19:19 pm
The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.
I assume that it is just your crazy mafiascum.net style to accuse Jim without Jim even posting.
I find this offensive, as I can usually read Jim pretty well.
So 4maskwolf
Bruh.

Like, five levels of bruh.
If I could vote you twice, I would now be doing so.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 19, 2022, 07:04:28 pm
The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.
I assume that it is just your crazy mafiascum.net style to accuse Jim without Jim even posting.
I find this offensive, as I can usually read Jim pretty well.
So 4maskwolf
Bruh.

Like, five levels of bruh.
If I could vote you twice, I would now be doing so.
4maskwolf niegh.
And we'll see. It's a bold claim and puts a target on your head.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 19, 2022, 07:20:54 pm
I got a mafia result on Roden.
Is this a serious claim?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 19, 2022, 07:38:17 pm
Jack can be town for now.

TricMagic
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 19, 2022, 07:40:16 pm
I can be inspected and will flip mafia.
will flip mafia.
Do I think Webadict would have a town role that flips mafia in a non-bastard?

...

I don't. You're interpreting incorrectly or lying.

I got a mafia result on Roden.
Is this a serious claim?
You tell me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 19, 2022, 07:44:22 pm
Jack can be town for now.

TricMagic
I was going to vote Tric for their first post, but I'm still kind of 50/50.

To note, I like how Knightwing spelt Jack's name incorrectly the same way as Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360658#msg8360658) right after though, collusion??
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 19, 2022, 08:23:18 pm
I can be inspected and will flip mafia.
will flip mafia.
Do I think Webadict would have a town role that flips mafia in a non-bastard?

...

I don't. You're interpreting incorrectly or lying.

I got a mafia result on Roden.
Is this a serious claim?
You tell me.
Please just answer the question.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 19, 2022, 08:31:13 pm
D R A M A
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 19, 2022, 10:22:15 pm
Please just answer the question.
I would love to keep this up, but the no nonsense attitude is kind of a bummer. I am unsure if a mafia!Roden would behave this way.

I'm kidding about having a N0 (or immediate D1 action?) inspect on Roden because that's incredibly stupid. It's a joke because I've been framing Roden in the last few games. I can't believe I have to answer this straight-faced for him when he complained about me doing this in the last game and should know what I'm doing.

Anyway, probably town for now.

I can be inspected and will flip mafia.
Do I think Webadict would have a town role that flips mafia in a non-bastard?
I think I understood Jack wrong, they said "flip" here which made me think they meant on death, but I think they actually meant if they were inspected.

So I'm less suspicious of Jack if that's true.

4mask seems town. Knight is probably town. Max is odd. Tric is odd. Jim and Vector I don't know.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 19, 2022, 10:27:27 pm
And so the games begin EucrheJack. How much do you want to be kept alive?

THIS VOTE FEELS KIND OF OFF HONESTLY.

HOW MUCH A PLAYER WANTS TO BE KEPT ALIVE IS A WEIRD THING TO GAUGE SOMEBODY ON.

BUT THEN EUCHREJACK DOESN'T ANSWER AND TRICMAGIC DOESN'T PUSH HIM FOR THE ANSWER EITHER.

Jim Groovester is redpeeked, all aboard!

I'M A MILLER.

NOT THAT YOU WERE SERIOUS ABOUT IT ANYWAY.

The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.

ALRIGHT, SOUNDS GOOD.

HEY WAIT A SECOND.

Ok, so I need to role claim that I inspect as Mafia, even though I am not.
I also possess some sort of investigative role, which I won't mention at this time.
Discuss
So, after decrypting my role, I'm basically an Ascetic that reads mafia.  I can't be roleblocked or tracked or seen by others, yet I can be inspected and will flip mafia.

While I'd make a fine policy lynch, I do have Tracker+ as my investigative ability. 
The Plus is reserved for tomorrow, if you should decide to keep me alive to prove that claim.

WTF IS THIS ROLECLAIM AND WTF PROMPTED IT?

WTF IS THIS BARGAINING AND ATTEMPTS TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE LYNCHED?

CLAIMING MILLER IS FINE BUT THE REST OF YOUR ROLE IS WEIRD.

I AGREE WITH TOONYMAN THAT THIS IS FISHY AS HELL. MILLER + DEATH MILLER SOUNDS A LOT LIKE SCUM.

The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.
I assume that it is just your crazy mafiascum.net style to accuse Jim without Jim even posting.
I find this offensive, as I can usually read Jim pretty well.
So 4maskwolf

WHAT EVEN.

WHY IS YOUR ABILITY TO READ ME A FACTOR IN YOUR VOTE OF 4MASKWOLF WHEN I HAVEN'T EVEN SHOWN UP YET?

D R A M A

YOU ARE NEATLY FITTING INTO ALL MY EXPECTATIONS FOR HOW YOU PLAY.

Interesting start. I will play to type as expected.

I am town. I don't think I believe ToonyMan.

YOU ARE ALSO NEATLY FITTING INTO MY EXPECTATIONS OF HOW YOU PLAY MUCH TO MY AGGRAVATION.



EUCHREJACK/TRICMAGIC SCUMTEAM? EUCHREJACK IS ACTING LIKE ALREADY FOUND OUT SCUM FOR SOME REASON.

NO I DON'T HAVE A POST RESTRICTION BUT IT WOULD BE WEIRD NOT TO DO ALL CAPS WITH THE ROLE I SUBMITTED.

PPE:

I think I understood Jack wrong, they said "flip" here which made me think they meant on death, but I think they actually meant if they were inspected.

So I'm less suspicious of Jack if that's true.

I HOPE YOUR CHARITABLE INTERPRETATION OF EUCHREJACK'S DESCRIPTION OF HIS ROLE IS THE CORRECT ONE.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 19, 2022, 10:28:26 pm
ALSO I'M VISITING FAMILY THIS WEEKEND SO I MIGHT NOT BE AROUND MUCH TOMORROW BUT I'M WAITING TO START MY NEW JOB SO I'LL BE AROUND PLENTY OTHERWISE.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 19, 2022, 11:28:38 pm
Please just answer the question.
I would love to keep this up, but the no nonsense attitude is kind of a bummer. I am unsure if a mafia!Roden would behave this way.

I'm kidding about having a N0 (or immediate D1 action?) inspect on Roden because that's incredibly stupid. It's a joke because I've been framing Roden in the last few games. I can't believe I have to answer this straight-faced for him when he complained about me doing this in the last game and should know what I'm doing.

Anyway, probably town for now.
I figured that's what you were doing, but I wanted to be sure on the off chance you actually did have a N0 inspect on me, since I'm a Miller.

Jim Groovester is redpeeked, all aboard!

I'M A MILLER.

NOT THAT YOU WERE SERIOUS ABOUT IT ANYWAY.
...You too? So Jack, you, and me are all claiming Miller now.

Any other Millers we should know about?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 20, 2022, 12:42:04 am
Unless the wolf team is exactly Jack/Jim I don’t think w!euchre ever responds that way to my shenanigans. Plus, they claimed miller first (although as Toony noted it was a little awkward) which is a note in their favor. For D1, those are odds I’m willing to take.

I hate the fact that Tric’s lazy bandwagon could absolutely be town Tric, but I’d like to see where this goes for a bit.

I’m weirdly inclined to give Jim townpoints for bad reasons.

Roden’s response to Toony was similar to Euchre’s response to me but too defensive for me to be comfortable calling that slot townie in the same way I do Euchre.

Knight technically exists.

If I had a gun to my head and had to pick a second wolf I’d say Spin, which lolonepostreads but their response to Toony felt far more performative than Roden or Jack.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 20, 2022, 02:01:41 am
You guys know the right way to play that would have been to have one person ask Jack if he meant "flip" or "inspect", and then nobody else rehash over it, right? I think he probably meant "inspect" but now even if he says that he did it will seem just as likely that he is taking the out, not that he misspoke, because Toony and Jim made it seem important.

I have reason to believe it would make sense for there to be a few millers.

If I had a gun to my head and had to pick a second wolf I’d say Spin, which lolonepostreads but their response to Toony felt far more performative than Roden or Jack.
I am only one person.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 20, 2022, 03:11:46 am
Jim

I can't read your posts

Also...Jim is town, but misguided. It's not Jack and Tric. Maybe Tric.

Unvote
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 20, 2022, 03:19:06 am
Weird. Two millers is possible I guess, but three is weird.

I like Roden claiming Miller there because it's incredibly bold if they're lying since it's after seeing Jack and Jim claim it. Although I can't tell if Jim is serious.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 20, 2022, 03:22:06 am
In the hypothetical scenario where one of these three players is scum, it would be most likely Jack or Jim. The other two would also very likely be town. It's also possible all three are town. I don't think it's possible there's more than one mafia here.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 20, 2022, 03:40:41 am
To clarify, I meant "flip mafia" as in "inspect as mafia".  Poor word choice on my part, sorry.

Voting Jim Groovester because his posting method makes it painful to read.  That could be intentional: He wants credit for posting, but does so in a way that we are inclined not to examine.  Typically, I'd be able to read Jim in a couple of posts, but that posting technique of ALL CAPS is going to make it harder.

FOS Toonyman, although I typically can't read Toonyman until Day 2 at the earliest.

I'm backing off 4maskwolf because I realize I can't actually read them from a meta standpoint, and that caused me to join in mislynching them in a previous game.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 20, 2022, 03:42:45 am
Jack can be town for now.

TricMagic
I was going to vote Tric for their first post, but I'm still kind of 50/50.

To note, I like how Knightwing spelt Jack's name incorrectly the same way as Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360658#msg8360658) right after though, collusion??
WTF!?
...the significant more likely story is that Knightwing just copied Tric's spelling of my name.  Knightwing picked up on it first.
Posts like that get you scum points.  It's too playful/confusing for Town!Toonyman.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 20, 2022, 08:28:40 am
I've got a powerful role, so only way I'm getting lynched day 1 is if they push it through before I can roleclaim. Again..
Day 2-3 for me is likely to be very productive though :)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 20, 2022, 08:51:54 am
What do you mean it’s too playful for Town!Toony? Is there a difference between how he plays as mafia and town?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 20, 2022, 12:15:28 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf  - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360684#msg8360684),
EuchreJack - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360716#msg8360716),
Jim Groovester - 1 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360777#msg8360777),
Knightwing - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360661#msg8360661),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -

Not Voting - 5 - 4maskwolf , Knightwing, Roden, ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360771#msg8360771), Vector,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~103 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 20, 2022, 01:06:45 pm
Much silence about nothing.

So, I'll ask the same question as I did at the start, to everyone this time. How much do you want to live?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 20, 2022, 01:08:31 pm
Oh, did my vote not count because I got his name wrong? Alright, we’ll I’m just going to vote for Jack until someone says something smart and convinces me otherwise

EuchreJack


Also Tric, I like living, so a whole lot.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 20, 2022, 02:06:11 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf  - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360684#msg8360684),
EuchreJack - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360716#msg8360716),
Jim Groovester - 1 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360777#msg8360777),
Knightwing - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360661#msg8360661),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -

Not Voting - 5 - 4maskwolf , Knightwing, Roden, ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360771#msg8360771), Vector,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~103 hours remaining).

-angry dog noises-

Knightwing trending down and I'm growing increasingly skeptical of Toonyman.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 20, 2022, 02:16:34 pm
Knightwing, why exactly do you want Jack dead? At the end of the day claiming miller is double-edged for jack, but also points for not letting investigative roles waste their shot on him.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 20, 2022, 02:23:35 pm
No particular reason. Mostly just doing it to make a joke about how everybody votes for them at the start, I could unvote if you want? I’m mostly just trying to stay in the loop right now anyways.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 20, 2022, 02:42:35 pm
Right now there isn't much evidence against anyone. But that usually happens during Day 1. It's why discussion is important.

Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 20, 2022, 02:51:06 pm
EuchreJack. I feel like it's 4mask and Jack if Jim is town.

Or Vector is one of the mafia and I have no idea who the other is, but not much I can do about that.

Voting Jim Groovester because his posting method makes it painful to read.  That could be intentional: He wants credit for posting, but does so in a way that we are inclined not to examine.  Typically, I'd be able to read Jim in a couple of posts, but that posting technique of ALL CAPS is going to make it harder.
This is a dumb reason to vote someone. Also, his post is just as insightful as in other games, just annoying to read.

I'm backing off 4maskwolf because I realize I can't actually read them from a meta standpoint, and that caused me to join in mislynching them in a previous game.
Oh? Is that the only reason?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 20, 2022, 02:59:13 pm
I think Jim could be right that Jack and Tric are just the mafia, but I don't really feel that energy.

One of my abilities removes a player's autos from them. I assume being a Miller is one of the autos you have, so I am not fully surprised by three miller claims as there's probably a lot of autos among the cast. For example, I could "scrub" a miller clean and have them not be a miller anymore. I find three miller claims suspicious still though and suspect Jack more than Jim or Roden currently.

Can one of the millers confirm if millerhood is an auto ability?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 20, 2022, 03:11:05 pm
My Miller is auto, but it isn't called Miller and actually has two negative effects. If I get voted out, whoever hammers me also steals my ability.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 20, 2022, 03:15:31 pm
Much silence about nothing.

So, I'll ask the same question as I did at the start, to everyone this time. How much do you want to live?
I'm not sure if you'd be this confrontational as mafia. Kinda looks like you're trying to soft claim Vig?

I'd prefer to live but that should go without saying.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 20, 2022, 03:17:25 pm
Oops, last vote count was messed up because spelling errors (and bugs)! Here's one that doesn't have the same issues. My bad!

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360684#msg8360684),
EuchreJack - 3 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360716#msg8360716), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360874#msg8360874), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360894#msg8360894),
Jim Groovester - 1 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360777#msg8360777),
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360661#msg8360661),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360696#msg8360696),
Vector - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - Roden, Vector,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~100 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 20, 2022, 03:25:30 pm
Toony swapping from "4mask maybe town" to "4mask is probably just a wolf" after I make a comment about him being sus, based on what is, as best as I can tell, a pre-flip associative, is interesting in italics.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 20, 2022, 03:30:54 pm
... ToonyMan, I will die on this hill. Seriously, shoot me and see what happens.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 20, 2022, 03:33:05 pm
This really isn't you Toony, you'd normally be.... Well, less this.

As is, pretty sure one of the three voting Jack is Mafia, if not multiple. Jim being his partner would make some sense given Jim won't be able to play this weekend. But on the same manner we still have 4 days, and hammering this quickly denies discussion
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 20, 2022, 04:08:43 pm
My Miller is auto, but it isn't called Miller and actually has two negative effects. If I get voted out, whoever hammers me also steals my ability.
Why in the holy hell would you claim that.

Part of me actually thinks you're more likely to be mafia than to have really thought it would be pro-town to say that, but I'm trying to reserve judgement. Everyone makes mistakes. :P

Anyway, come on everyone, vote ToonyMan with me. It's good for you. Puts hair on your chest, probably.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 20, 2022, 04:46:27 pm
My Miller is auto, but it isn't called Miller and actually has two negative effects. If I get voted out, whoever hammers me also steals my ability.
Why in the holy hell would you claim that.

Part of me actually thinks you're more likely to be mafia than to have really thought it would be pro-town to say that, but I'm trying to reserve judgement. Everyone makes mistakes. :P

Anyway, come on everyone, vote ToonyMan with me. It's good for you. Puts hair on your chest, probably.
Probably a jester or bomb.
Max, any other comments on the dynamics? (Nt the best word to use but eh. :))
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 20, 2022, 06:01:28 pm
Max, any other comments on the dynamics? (Nt the best word to use but eh. :) )
Not really, not yet. I think most people can pretty much see where things stand now.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 20, 2022, 06:16:36 pm
Toony swapping from "4mask maybe town" to "4mask is probably just a wolf" after I make a comment about him being sus, based on what is, as best as I can tell, a pre-flip associative, is interesting in italics.
Nah that isn't part of it. I was just thinking if I don't trust Jack then I don't trust you either, sorry.

This really isn't you Toony, you'd normally be.... Well, less this.
Less what?

As is, pretty sure one of the three voting Jack is Mafia, if not multiple. Jim being his partner would make some sense given Jim won't be able to play this weekend. But on the same manner we still have 4 days, and hammering this quickly denies discussion
Sure, you can suppose that.

My Miller is auto, but it isn't called Miller and actually has two negative effects. If I get voted out, whoever hammers me also steals my ability.
Why in the holy hell would you claim that.
Part of me actually thinks you're more likely to be mafia than to have really thought it would be pro-town to say that, but I'm trying to reserve judgement. Everyone makes mistakes. :P
No. I'm pretty sure Roden is town now.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 20, 2022, 06:20:06 pm
Roden

I have three more problems to submit before I can be done with my complex analysis course, back later. Take care y'all.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 20, 2022, 08:16:06 pm
I could vote Toonyman, but it's too early to bring him one vote away from hammer.

My stealth and false inspection as Mafia are linked auto abilities.
I don't see any town reasons to keep this secret.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 20, 2022, 08:18:05 pm
Roden

I have three more problems to submit before I can be done with my complex analysis course, back later. Take care y'all.

Hopefully you'll have energy after your complex analysis class to volunteer some complex analysis.  :P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 20, 2022, 09:29:59 pm
Unvote
Because I could finally get around to reading Jim's obnoxious all caps post.

It appears that Jim jumped on me due to being another miller and doubting that two could be in the game. But we now have a third Miller claim, which sorta makes me think two millers could exist.
Maybe three?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 20, 2022, 11:17:41 pm
My Miller is auto, but it isn't called Miller and actually has two negative effects. If I get voted out, whoever hammers me also steals my ability.
Why in the holy hell would you claim that.

Part of me actually thinks you're more likely to be mafia than to have really thought it would be pro-town to say that, but I'm trying to reserve judgement. Everyone makes mistakes. :P

Anyway, come on everyone, vote ToonyMan with me. It's good for you. Puts hair on your chest, probably.
Because if I get run up, I'd prefer that a consensus town read perform the hammer over letting a scum read do it. Less power in scum hands and instead in town hands is objectively a good thing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 20, 2022, 11:31:00 pm
@Roden: Do you believe both Jim and my Miller claims?
If not, which of us is lying? Why?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 21, 2022, 01:30:07 am
@Roden: Do you believe both Jim and my Miller claims?
If not, which of us is lying? Why?
Until I'm given a reason to believe otherwise, I don't have any to doubt your claims. You claimed first and even said that you're apparently a Death Miller, which idk why mafia would claim that. However mafia doesn't really have a reason to fake counterclaim Miller either, so Jim also seems fine.

Also, you didn't really ask, but I'm kinda vibing with Tric and Max. I like what they're softing and I think they're town. I hope Toony is town, but I always seem to figure him out too late.

I'm comfortable voting somewhere in 4mask/Knightwing/Vector. I know the latter two typically don't post much but they feel extra lurky.

Vector
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 21, 2022, 01:34:05 am
I will say this though: two specific players feel a little off. It's a meta read, and the game still barely just started, so I won't say who they are yet since I don't want to tip them off. If it persists, I'll say who they are before the day ends.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 01:40:09 am
To clarify, I am NOT a Death Miller.
I am just a Regular Miller.
But I am also a Ninja/Unblockable, which can be tested.

Also: WTF Web? You promised us Low Power Roles! Yet if mine is anything to go by, I'd say Superpower'd with Weaknesses would be more accurate.

I will say this though: two specific players feel a little off. It's a meta read, and the game still barely just started, so I won't say who they are yet since I don't want to tip them off. If it persists, I'll say who they are before the day ends.
Good call. Although tragedy has struck the House of EJ, so I at least have a marginal excuse.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 21, 2022, 01:41:48 am
ALRIGHT, EVERYONE, I ACTUALLY READ THE THREAD INSTEAD OF JUST REPLYING TO A BUNCH OF SHIT.

I'M SORRY ABOUT THE ALL-CAPS BUT I'M NOT GOING TO STOP. I'LL SEND YOU YOU GUYS SKITTLES OR BEER MONEY IF YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ONCE THE GAME IS OVER. I AM SERIOUS.


MY READ ON EUCHREJACK HAS SOFTENED AFTER I REALIZED THAT ALL THE STUFF I VOTED HIM FOR HAPPENED IN THE FIRST TWO HOURS OF THE GAME, BUT THERE IS STILL A LOT THAT BAFFLES ME ABOUT HOW EUCHREJACK IS PLAYING SO THE VOTE REMAINS FOR THE TIME BEING.

IF TRICMAGIC BEING HYPERFOCUSED ON HOW GREAT HIS ROLE WAS WAS THE ONLY THING HE WAS DOING I WOULD TOWN READ HIM BUT HE SEEMS TO BE PLAYING SOMEWHAT SERIOUSLY WHICH FEELS INCONSISTENT WITH WHAT I RECALL OF HIS NORMAL TOWN META BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I PLAYED WITH HIM OR HOW HIS GAME HAS EVOLVED SINCE THEN.

4MASKWOLF IS VERY SKILLED AND TERRIFIES ME AND GETTING A READ ON HIM WILL BE DIFFICULT. I DON'T THINK 4MASKWOLF AND EUCHREJACK COULD BE ON THE SAME SCUM TEAM BASED ON THEIR INTERACTIONS.

I DON'T LIKE VECTOR'S DRIVE BY ON RODEN AND I EAGERLY AWAIT MORE FROM THEM.

MAXIMUM SPIN AND RODEN I READ TOWNISH BUT NOT STRONGLY.

TOONYMAN READS TOWNISH.

KNIGHTWING64 IS BEING KNIGHTWING64.

I'LL NEED TO POKE AT EUCHREJACK SOME MORE WHILE KEEPING AN EYE ON TRICMAGIC AND VECTOR. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ENOUGH TO TIE ANY OF THOSE THREE TO EACH OTHER IN TERMS OF REVEALING SCUM TO SCUM INTERACTIONS SO I DON'T HAVE MUCH CONFIDENCE IN THE GAME WINNING SOLUTION BEING TWO OF THOSE THREE.

A BAZILLION QUESTIONS IN A BIT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 01:45:13 am
Hm, at least Jim has convinced me Tric is Town Vigilante.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 01:52:56 am
I can sign on to a Jim/Toonyman scum team
In fact Toonyman.

Who wants to Hammer?
If Toony flips Town, it's a hard Day 2 for the Hammerer.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 01:54:58 am
Huh, I swore there were already 3 votes on Toonyman.
Even better!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 01:57:01 am
I've got a powerful role, so only way I'm getting lynched day 1 is if they push it through before I can roleclaim. Again..
Day 2-3 for me is likely to be very productive though :)
Actually, if you're a vigilante, I think you are likely to get lynched because people think you're either Mafia OR you'll likely kill a townie if you're town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 02:03:15 am
I'm convinced Jim is town at this point.

Why are you so eager to kill me Jack? Do you have any other thoughts for why you backed off 4mask earlier?

I'm willing to believe all the "miller" claims are legit, so if there's someone I find more suspicious than you Jack I will vote them. If I wasn't voting you right now it would probably be Tric or 4mask. I'm not sure about Max or Vector either but right now I really feel the rest are town. Yes, even Knightwing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 02:08:11 am
I'm convinced Jim is town at this point.

Why are you so eager to kill me Jack? Do you have any other thoughts for why you backed off 4mask earlier?

I'm willing to believe all the "miller" claims are legit, so if there's someone I find more suspicious than you Jack I will vote them. If I wasn't voting you right now it would probably be Tric or 4mask. I'm not sure about Max or Vector either but right now I really feel the rest are town. Yes, even Knightwing.

I'm not sold on Jim as town, but you're both town reading each other without any attempt to even justify it.

If you unvote me, I'll unvote you.  We're both tied at 3 votes. I was going to look at those throwing suspicion on you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 02:08:36 am
My role also seems high powered for a simple BYOR.

I'll Unvote Jack. I don't think they'd make a remark like that as mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 02:09:28 am
Hm, for clarity I posted that without seeing the new Jack post.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 21, 2022, 02:10:03 am
I can sign on to a Jim/Toonyman scum team
In fact Toonyman.

Who wants to Hammer?
If Toony flips Town, it's a hard Day 2 for the Hammerer.

NO HAMMERS

I AM STILL THINKING
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 02:10:27 am
I'll Unvote ToonyMan purely because I promised to do so.
Upon reread, Toony's posting is EXACTLY how I'd expect mafia!Toonyman to post.

I can sign on to a Jim/Toonyman scum team
In fact Toonyman.

Who wants to Hammer?
If Toony flips Town, it's a hard Day 2 for the Hammerer.

NO HAMMERS

I AM STILL THINKING

Uh, deal?  :P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 02:14:21 am
4maskwolf. Why is Jack ignoring anything I say about you?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 21, 2022, 02:14:42 am
The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.
I assume that it is just your crazy mafiascum.net style to accuse Jim without Jim even posting.
I find this offensive, as I can usually read Jim pretty well.
So 4maskwolf

WHAT EVEN.

WHY IS YOUR ABILITY TO READ ME A FACTOR IN YOUR VOTE OF 4MASKWOLF WHEN I HAVEN'T EVEN SHOWN UP YET?

EUCHREJACK, PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

I was going to vote Tric for their first post, but I'm still kind of 50/50.

To note, I like how Knightwing spelt Jack's name incorrectly the same way as Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360658#msg8360658) right after though, collusion??
WTF!?
...the significant more likely story is that Knightwing just copied Tric's spelling of my name.  Knightwing picked up on it first.
Posts like that get you scum points.  It's too playful/confusing for Town!Toonyman.

I DON'T THINK TOONYMAN WAS BEING SERIOUS AND I DON'T THINK YOU ARE DENSE ENOUGH TO THINK HE WAS.

FOS Toonyman, although I typically can't read Toonyman until Day 2 at the earliest.

A FOS IS BIZARRE AND ARCHAIC AND I CAN'T RECALL YOU EVER USING ONE BEFORE.

Hm, at least Jim has convinced me Tric is Town Vigilante.

IF YOU BELIEVED THIS WHY SAY IT PUBLICLY?

Much silence about nothing.

So, I'll ask the same question as I did at the start, to everyone this time. How much do you want to live?

WHY DIDN'T YOU TRY TO TRACK DOWN EUCHREJACK'S ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION INSTEAD OF LETTING HIM BRUSH YOU OFF?

Can one of the millers confirm if millerhood is an auto ability?

MY MILLERNESS IS AN AUTO.

My Miller is auto, but it isn't called Miller and actually has two negative effects. If I get voted out, whoever hammers me also steals my ability.
Why in the holy hell would you claim that.

Part of me actually thinks you're more likely to be mafia than to have really thought it would be pro-town to say that, but I'm trying to reserve judgement. Everyone makes mistakes. :P

I LIKE THIS OBSERVATION A LOT AND YOU FOR MAKING IT EVEN IF I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR CONCLUSION ABOUT RODEN.

Anyway, come on everyone, vote ToonyMan with me. It's good for you. Puts hair on your chest, probably.

OKAY, BUT WHY?

Toony swapping from "4mask maybe town" to "4mask is probably just a wolf" after I make a comment about him being sus, based on what is, as best as I can tell, a pre-flip associative, is interesting in italics.

I CAN'T DECIDE IF I'M OKAY WITH THIS OBSERVATION OR NOT.

I FEEL LIKE IT ASSUMES AND IMPLIES TOO MUCH.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 02:25:32 am
Unpacking the build up to my voting Toonyman, basically I FOS'd Toonyman, they responded by voting me, and then I responded by voting Toonyman.
That actually makes me feel better about Toonyman, as irrational lashing out is normal town!Toonyman behavior.  I was worried that I WASN'T seeing that sort of behavior.

Preparing a response to Jim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 02:41:27 am
Hope this post works out.  I'm using all my forum magic to see if I can do this...
The wolf team is Jim and Toony, everyone vote them kthnxbye.
I assume that it is just your crazy mafiascum.net style to accuse Jim without Jim even posting.
I find this offensive, as I can usually read Jim pretty well.
So 4maskwolf

WHAT EVEN.

WHY IS YOUR ABILITY TO READ ME A FACTOR IN YOUR VOTE OF 4MASKWOLF WHEN I HAVEN'T EVEN SHOWN UP YET?

EUCHREJACK, PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

4maskwolf was voting you without your being present.  You are notoriously easy to read, not only by myself but by others.  Thus, voting you prior to your posting is suspicious, since you are likely to out yourself as town once you post.  You might even out yourself as scum.  It is further suspicious because planting the idea of you being scum prior to your posting makes it easier to argue that you are scum after you post.

I was going to vote Tric for their first post, but I'm still kind of 50/50.

To note, I like how Knightwing spelt Jack's name incorrectly the same way as Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360658#msg8360658) right after though, collusion??
WTF!?
...the significant more likely story is that Knightwing just copied Tric's spelling of my name.  Knightwing picked up on it first.
Posts like that get you scum points.  It's too playful/confusing for Town!Toonyman.

I DON'T THINK TOONYMAN WAS BEING SERIOUS AND I DON'T THINK YOU ARE DENSE ENOUGH TO THINK HE WAS.


I actually WAS Dense Enough to believe Toonyman was serious.  I guess I'll just take the complement and move on?

FOS Toonyman, although I typically can't read Toonyman until Day 2 at the earliest.

A FOS IS BIZARRE AND ARCHAIC AND I CAN'T RECALL YOU EVER USING ONE BEFORE.


Huh? I probably use a FOS in like half of my games.  I would hardly call it "bizarre and archaic", unless I were to also call your playing a mafia game "bizarre and archaic".  They happen about as often?

Hm, at least Jim has convinced me Tric is Town Vigilante.

IF YOU BELIEVED THIS WHY SAY IT PUBLICLY?

Primarily because it points as Tric as Town.  Since Tric tends to play horribly, he needs all the help he can get if a Green Check.  At the time, I was mainly concerned purely with Tric being cleared as Town so I would have one less suspect.  However, as I later pointed out, Tric is commonly known to be rather unpredictable and inaccurate. Tric by his own admission in the Revolution III game is not to be trusted with a gun.  So it is a bit of a public service announcement to be warned that Tric might be a townie with a gun, plus a plea with Tric to keep it hidden.  Plausable deniability.  Really, you should be trying to talk Tric into using his Gun responsibly, if he has one. Why aren't you doing that?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 02:45:56 am
At this point, I'm inclined to believe one of Jim or Roden's miller claims is fake.  As I've seen in other games, three of anything typically means one is scum.
Hm, now is it Jim's pressure on me, or Roden's low profile? Jim's a power wolf whereas Roden is a scummarine.*

*A scummarine is a scum submarine, or mostly lurker who comes up occasionally to torpedo town.  I just made it up, so thought I should explain.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 02:54:47 am
I disagree. If one of you three is mafia then it's you Jack. Jim or Roden wouldn't claim miller like they did. I believe both of them.

Look elsewhere.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 21, 2022, 03:09:28 am
I LIKE THIS OBSERVATION A LOT AND YOU FOR MAKING IT EVEN IF I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR CONCLUSION ABOUT RODEN.
Which conclusion? I clearly expressed ambivalence. Do you disagree that he is mafia or that he is not mafia?

Quote
OKAY, BUT WHY?
For the same reason I vote for anyone: because I want to see what happens if he dies.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 03:10:21 am
Reads List!
(REMEMBER: No RED Text except to Vote!!!)

TricMagic: Mafia!Tric wouldn't be threatening to kill people.  Seriously, just town read and move on with your life.
Knightwing64: Only seen once as scum, but in that game was obviously scum (Kill Webadict as The Webadict).  Talked more to cover up obvious scum status, so I would expect Knightwing64 to cover for being mafia by talking more than we've seen in this game. Yes, it is purely hypothetical at this point.
ToonyMan: Will give a minor town lean due to the rather natural way that their vote happened on me, and possibly easier targets being bypassed by Toonyman as they switched onto me.  They were going after 4maskwolf, saw my FOS and jumped onto me, then has gone back to suspecting 4maskwolf after we both stopped voting each other.
Vector: Posting exactly as much as Vector posts at this point regardless of alignment. Null Read.
Maximum Spin: Same as Vector, can't read Day 1.
Jim Groovester: Null read because Toonyman says wouldn't claim miller like this.  Since Toonyman probably has seen Jim claim miller, and I haven't, defer to Toonyman.
Roden: Null read because Toonyman says wouldn't claim miller like this. However, this one I may be able to follow up on, so only temporary deferral to Toonyman.
4maskwolf: I was going to say inspect, shoot, or lynch, but since Toonyman says not Jim or Roden, put 4maskwolf on the lynch block.
Admittedly sheeping Jim & Toonyman on this one, need to investigate further myself.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 21, 2022, 03:19:20 am
4maskwolf was voting you without your being present.  You are notoriously easy to read, not only by myself but by others.  Thus, voting you prior to your posting is suspicious, since you are likely to out yourself as town once you post.  You might even out yourself as scum.  It is further suspicious because planting the idea of you being scum prior to your posting makes it easier to argue that you are scum after you post.

WHY WOULD YOU BE DENSE ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT 4MASKWOLF WAS BEING SERIO-

I actually WAS Dense Enough

*sigh*

Primarily because it points as Tric as Town.  Since Tric tends to play horribly, he needs all the help he can get if a Green Check.  At the time, I was mainly concerned purely with Tric being cleared as Town so I would have one less suspect.  However, as I later pointed out, Tric is commonly known to be rather unpredictable and inaccurate. Tric by his own admission in the Revolution III game is not to be trusted with a gun.  So it is a bit of a public service announcement to be warned that Tric might be a townie with a gun, plus a plea with Tric to keep it hidden.  Plausable deniability.  Really, you should be trying to talk Tric into using his Gun responsibly, if he has one. Why aren't you doing that?

IF YOU BELIEVED SOMEBODY WAS A VIGILANTE WHY WOULD YOU ANNOUNCE IT PUBLICLY SO THE SCUM TEAM ALSO KNEW ABOU-

I actually WAS Dense Enough

*sigh*

I'M GOING TO UNVOTE FOR NOW SINCE I'M HAVING AN INCREASINGLY HARD TIME BELIEVING THE STREAM OF NONSENSE COMING FROM EUCHREJACK COULD BE DISINGENUOUS SCUM PLAY.


I'M GOING TO BED.



I LIKE THIS OBSERVATION A LOT AND YOU FOR MAKING IT EVEN IF I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR CONCLUSION ABOUT RODEN.
Which conclusion? I clearly expressed ambivalence. Do you disagree that he is mafia or that he is not mafia?

I READ HIM AS TOWNISH.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 03:21:04 am
Hm, I think my problem with 4maskwolf is the lack of hunting. They stopped voting me primarily to get me to stop voting them (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360696#msg8360696).
Notice the mud (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360742#msg8360742) getting slung onto Toonyman (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360885#msg8360885) without actually attacking Toonyman (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360904#msg8360904). Note Tric took the bait... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360907#msg8360907)
@4maskwolf: Who do you think is scum? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360902#msg8360902) Why?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 03:28:07 am
Having slayed the mighty Jim Groovester, I shall name thee Townish.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 21, 2022, 08:14:12 am
I’m not sure I appreciate what Jim is implying about me. What do mean by me being me? I am a very trustable and likable person.

I will have you know that I am called by many people “so annoying that it’s endearing”

Wait, what were we talking about again?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 21, 2022, 10:35:53 am
Well, that's something I guess. How am I so bad about setup for day 2?

4mask, what's your opinions on the current roles? I note you are tending to ignore things that are too far out?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 21, 2022, 10:49:05 am
4maskwolf. Why is Jack ignoring anything I say about you?
Cute. You know what my answer to this question is.

4maskwolf was voting you without your being present.  You are notoriously easy to read, not only by myself but by others.  Thus, voting you prior to your posting is suspicious, since you are likely to out yourself as town once you post.  You might even out yourself as scum.  It is further suspicious because planting the idea of you being scum prior to your posting makes it easier to argue that you are scum after you post.

WHY WOULD YOU BE DENSE ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT 4MASKWOLF WAS BEING SERIO-

I actually WAS Dense Enough

*sigh*
That's the entire reason I did it lmao, this game is full of people who would unironically believe that vote and it gives me good info.

Hm, I think my problem with 4maskwolf is the lack of hunting. They stopped voting me primarily to get me to stop voting them (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360696#msg8360696).
Notice the mud (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360742#msg8360742) getting slung onto Toonyman (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360885#msg8360885) without actually attacking Toonyman (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360904#msg8360904). Note Tric took the bait... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360907#msg8360907)
@4maskwolf: Who do you think is scum? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360902#msg8360902) Why?
Of course this is the downside of people not understanding the game, they have no idea what I've been doing all game.

EuchreJack, lemme real quick walk you through what I did this game. My first post was a quintessential bait post. Hilariously, one that I later realized was basically identical to what Toony had posted just before me. About half the game had good odds of believing that I believed my ridiculous claim (no mod is going to give an N0 wolfpeek in a 9-player game lmao). Once I got some responses I then posted an initial impressions list with pretty much every active player. I townread you because I legitimately townread you: first to claim miller is a good look, and I didn't think w!Euchre responds the way you did to my whackadoo opening.

Not every person who provides a townread on you is a bad actor, we're incentivized to build trust among our ranks and find other townies so we can narrow the pool of scum suspects.

You can determine my wolf list from my posts, it's really not that hard. Tric, Knight, Max, with no given read on Toony and Vector. Vector is basically unreadable to me at this point (minimal meta + only one post) and Toony is [REDACTED] [CENSORED] [YOU ARE NOT CLEARED TO READ THIS] but there's a reason I needled Toony with a veiled accusation to get a response out of him. That response also goes for Jim Groovester, who had opinions there.

I'll cop to being lazy about following up though, finals week was last week so I've basically been sleeping 20 hours a day to recover lmao.

Well, that's something I guess. How am I so bad about setup for day 2?

4mask, what's your opinions on the current roles? I note you are tending to ignore things that are too far out?
No.

Even if I thought you were town I'm unlikely to answer this question, there's no value for town in running roleclaim analyses right now beyond the miller claims. It literally just feeds more information to the wolves and without flips we only have our own role to go off of.

For everyone who's not paying attention, Tricmagic is hopping bandwagons whenever somebody makes accusations and pushing the wolf agenda in thread. Kill it with fire.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 21, 2022, 01:42:02 pm
Kill it with fire.
I agree with this, someone shoot me. See what happens. The answer is interesting.
I don't know why you think it a wolf agenda when today for me is literally setup for Day 2 roleclaiming.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 21, 2022, 01:43:08 pm
... To note, even if I am third-party, that doesn't actually help find mafia. So push off with you claiming me to be a wolf, that just isn't the case.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 01:49:55 pm
... To note, even if I am third-party, that doesn't actually help find mafia. So push off with you claiming me to be a wolf, that just isn't the case.
WTF!?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 21, 2022, 01:52:32 pm
Tric is probably town and we aren't fucking hammering Toony.

Nice OMGUS Roden, proud of ya. It's clear the forum raised you right.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 21, 2022, 01:54:13 pm
... To note, even if I am third-party, that doesn't actually help find mafia. So push off with you claiming me to be a wolf, that just isn't the case.
WTF!?
I see this as the normal, expected result of some dumbass not bothering to learn the local dialect. :P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 02:01:46 pm
... To note, even if I am third-party, that doesn't actually help find mafia. So push off with you claiming me to be a wolf, that just isn't the case.
WTF!?
I see this as the normal, expected result of some dumbass not bothering to learn the local dialect. :P
:P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 21, 2022, 02:04:48 pm
... To note, even if I am third-party, that doesn't actually help find mafia. So push off with you claiming me to be a wolf, that just isn't the case.
WTF!?
I see this as the normal, expected result of some dumbass not bothering to learn the local dialect. :P
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 03:04:50 pm
I like the 4mask post. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361134#msg8361134) If I believe Jack and 4mask then I think Tric and Max are reasonable top suspects, with Vector and Knightwing being unknowns (I read Knightwing as probably town but I can't point out why). But I don't exactly have that trust currently.

Vector why are you so set on Roden being mafia? I don't see it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 03:13:09 pm
@Toonyman: It is within your town meta to not see Roden as scum.  Pretty much the only times you have suspected Roden are when you were in fact mafia framing Roden.
If I'm wrong, let me know.  Otherwise I'll just keep assuming you have rose-tinted glasses for Roden.

I really do need to do my own analysis of Roden, as I can neither trust you nor Ghost Vector's opinions on Roden.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 04:30:43 pm
I don't think I've ever suspected Roden as town either. The only time I can think of where I was wrong was in MVM3 Round 4, but I was still willing to vote them in that unlike now. So yes, I think Roden is town again.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 21, 2022, 05:51:04 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361065#msg8361065),
EuchreJack - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360874#msg8360874),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953),
ToonyMan - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360661#msg8360661), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360907#msg8360907),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360696#msg8360696),
Vector - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361044#msg8361044),
No Lynch - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361064#msg8361064), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361079#msg8361079),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~74 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 21, 2022, 06:10:03 pm
Roden - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953),
Is this in fact correct?

If so, I'd want (a hypothetical town) ToonyMan to try to fix that tonight. Too dangerous.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 21, 2022, 06:23:25 pm
Roden - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953),
Is this in fact correct?
That is, in fact, correct.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 21, 2022, 06:31:29 pm
Vector, then.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 06:47:38 pm
After an admittedly brief read (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.msg8327129#msg8327129) of Mostly Vanilla Mafia 3 Round 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.msg8327365#msg8327365) in which Roden (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.msg8327716#msg8327716) was Mafia, I'm dunno about Roden.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 21, 2022, 07:56:03 pm
Wait, what? Why would Vector out that they're a double voter like that without claiming beforehand?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2022, 07:58:59 pm
Oh, I think actually using the double vote early on is fine.
Vector does not talk very much. But ask them some questions if you like. They'll get around to answering you eventually.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 21, 2022, 08:01:35 pm
Oops, last vote count was messed up because spelling errors (and bugs)! Here's one that doesn't have the same issues. My bad!

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360684#msg8360684),
EuchreJack - 3 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360716#msg8360716), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360874#msg8360874), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360894#msg8360894),
Jim Groovester - 1 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360777#msg8360777),
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360661#msg8360661),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360696#msg8360696),
Vector - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - Roden, Vector,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~100 hours remaining).


Roden

I have three more problems to submit before I can be done with my complex analysis course, back later. Take care y'all.
I didn't have any votes on me at the time, so they weren't even trying to hide their double vote by blending in on a wagon. They just, voted me.

It feels very anti town to not announce that you're a double voter. But, I'm not sure that mafia does this though...wtf is going on with this D1?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 21, 2022, 08:05:38 pm
Knightwing64 where are you and what are your reads?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 21, 2022, 08:21:35 pm
Knightwing64 where are you and what are your reads?

Roden

Napping in my house. I feel like Jim is town, he just seems like a townie person, I guess. Also, this has been said by other people, but Toony is acting kind of unusual this game, I guess.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 21, 2022, 09:28:15 pm
Knightwing64 where are you and what are your reads?

WHAT PROMPTED THIS VOTE? WHY KNIGHTWING64 OVER VECTOR?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 21, 2022, 10:51:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bookmarking these for later. Admittedly I'm extremely late to the party on these but this is my first time looking through the thread, like, properly properly.



I thought more people townread Jim than there really are, turns out half of it was just Toony.



I have further things to say but I need more time to go over the thread again and collect my thoughts.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 11:19:02 pm
Roden - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953),
Is this in fact correct?

If so, I'd want (a hypothetical town) ToonyMan to try to fix that tonight. Too dangerous.
Oh, I'll be fixing someone tonight all right.

Vector, then.
Why? Because they're a double voter?

I like how you imply Vector's double voting is automatic, while Jack is implying it's activated (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361226#msg8361226).

Does one of these players know something we don't? Who?

It feels very anti town to not announce that you're a double voter. But, I'm not sure that mafia does this though...wtf is going on with this D1?
I can confirm that I could see Vector dropping a hot vote on someone and leaving as either alignment.

I thought more people townread Jim than there really are, turns out half of it was just Toony.
It's true though. Jim and Roden are not mafia. These are the reads I'm most confident in.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 21, 2022, 11:25:09 pm
4mask say something only town!4mask would say and I'll vote Tric. I think he's the biggest hit between Jack/Tric/Max if you're town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 21, 2022, 11:31:21 pm
4mask say something only town!4mask would say and I'll vote Tric. I think he's the biggest hit between Jack/Tric/Max if you're town.
Toonyman
:wowee: :wowee: :wowee:
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 21, 2022, 11:32:34 pm
Re: Jim and townreads I’d seen it said so much (including by me) that I was wondering if he was just threadspewed town at that point, only to find out it was only about half the thread.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2022, 12:15:28 am
Oh, I think actually using the double vote early on is fine.
Vector does not talk very much. But ask them some questions if you like. They'll get around to answering you eventually.
This implies nothing.
In fact, only after posting did I recall that sometimes double voting is an automatic ability.
Don't set me up  Toonyman
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2022, 12:32:36 am
To clarify, what I meant by using the double vote early on was that by using it, In Other Words By Voting, is more effective than just saying "oh by the way, I'm a double-voter".
That is literally all that I was saying.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 22, 2022, 12:58:14 am
Knightwing64 where are you and what are your reads?

WHAT PROMPTED THIS VOTE? WHY KNIGHTWING64 OVER VECTOR?
I think if Vector was scum and wanted to use the double vote to endgame town, they would've tried to obscure it better. I think they could get away with not voting at all today if they really wanted to. And if they wanted to use it to gain town cred, they would likely be more performative and actually announce it to try to get in town's good graces. By doing neither, I don't see any scum motivation with the subtle reveal, so I think they're town.

As for the reason why I voted Nightwing, I more or less already explained that earlier.

@Roden: Do you believe both Jim and my Miller claims?
If not, which of us is lying? Why?
Until I'm given a reason to believe otherwise, I don't have any to doubt your claims. You claimed first and even said that you're apparently a Death Miller, which idk why mafia would claim that. However mafia doesn't really have a reason to fake counterclaim Miller either, so Jim also seems fine.

Also, you didn't really ask, but I'm kinda vibing with Tric and Max. I like what they're softing and I think they're town. I hope Toony is town, but I always seem to figure him out too late.

I'm comfortable voting somewhere in 4mask/Knightwing/Vector. I know the latter two typically don't post much but they feel extra lurky.

Vector
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 01:00:26 am
Ooo Jack is overreacting defensively, is this suspicious or something he'd do as town?

4mask, do you think Tric is a better hit than Max? Is Jack worth trusting more than Jim or Roden? Why?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 01:01:54 am
Sounds like good logic to me Roden. Vector is town then.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2022, 01:03:22 am
Roden's got a good point about Vector, I think town reading Vector for today makes sense.

I'm willing to wait out Toonyman for a bit longer.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 01:07:37 am
Ooo Jack is overreacting defensively, is this suspicious or something he'd do as town?

4mask, do you think Tric is a better hit than Max? Is Jack worth trusting more than Jim or Roden? Why?
Ugh you're no fun today. :P

I'll get to the actual question tomorrow because it's late and I have quite a bit to say on the second topic.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 01:07:53 am
Unvote
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 22, 2022, 03:18:38 am
4mask say something only town!4mask would say and I'll vote Tric. I think he's the biggest hit between Jack/Tric/Max if you're town.
Toonyman
:wowee: :wowee: :wowee:

I DON'T UNDERSTAND

Unvote

I DON'T UNDERSTAND EVEN MORE

Knightwing64 where are you and what are your reads?

WHAT PROMPTED THIS VOTE? WHY KNIGHTWING64 OVER VECTOR?
I think if Vector was scum and wanted to use the double vote to endgame town, they would've tried to obscure it better. I think they could get away with not voting at all today if they really wanted to. And if they wanted to use it to gain town cred, they would likely be more performative and actually announce it to try to get in town's good graces. By doing neither, I don't see any scum motivation with the subtle reveal, so I think they're town.

I MIGHT AGREE IF THE DOUBLE VOTE WAS AN EXPLICITLY USABLE ABILITY, BUT IT'S EQUALLY POSSIBLE THAT IT'S AUTOMATIC AND VECTOR HAS NO CHOICE IN WHETHER THEIR VOTE COUNTS DOUBLE.

TOWNREADING VECTOR FOR THE DOUBLE VOTE IS PREMATURE WITHOUT SOME INDICATION OF HOW THE ABILITY WORKS.

Sounds like good logic to me Roden. Vector is town then.
Roden's got a good point about Vector, I think town reading Vector for today makes sense.

HRRRRRRMMMMMMMMGRMGRGRGRGMRMGMRGMRMGMMMMMRMGMRGMRMGMRGMRMMMGMMMMMGRMGMRMGMMGMRMGRMGMRMGMRGMRMGMGRMGRMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

As for the reason why I voted Nightwing, I more or less already explained that earlier.

I'm comfortable voting somewhere in 4mask/Knightwing/Vector. I know the latter two typically don't post much but they feel extra lurky.

KNIGHTWING64 IS LURKIER THAN USUAL?

KNIGHTWING64 IS NOT PARTICULARLY TALKATIVE OR HELPFUL IN MOST CIRCUMSTANCES.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2022, 03:38:32 am
The argument for townreading Vector temporarily is that Vector could have hidden the double voting by either not activating it or by not voting.
Would you scum read Vector for not voting Day 1?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 22, 2022, 03:58:32 am
I like how you imply Vector's double voting is automatic, while Jack is implying it's activated (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361226#msg8361226).
I'm implying that it seemed like it might be, hence "try". If it isn't, this try would fail. That happens.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 22, 2022, 08:23:49 am
4mask say something only town!4mask would say and I'll vote Tric. I think he's the biggest hit between Jack/Tric/Max if you're town.
K, was going to say someone could have gifted Vector a doublevote. But this? You do know I was asleep right? Wanted to push the vote on me and lynch me before I even woke up? Cause that is something Mafia does, cause you/they know that I am fully willing to roleclaim to escape a lynch. That and even if I don't Day 1 I will Day 2.

Quote
That and even if I don't Day 1 I will Day 2.
To pound it into people's skulls.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 22, 2022, 08:28:59 am
Toony, what is your Read on Jack, is he being Townie for his playstyle, or scummy?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 12:24:19 pm
4mask say something only town!4mask would say and I'll vote Tric. I think he's the biggest hit between Jack/Tric/Max if you're town.
Toonyman
:wowee: :wowee: :wowee:

I DON'T UNDERSTAND

Unvote

I DON'T UNDERSTAND EVEN MORE
That joke would have made sense a year ago, in the last Wubba BYOR I hard-pushed Toony D1 when we were both town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 12:28:02 pm
Toony, what is your Read on Jack, is he being Townie for his playstyle, or scummy?
I think Jack is 90% town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 12:29:30 pm
Toony, what is your Read on Jack, is he being Townie for his playstyle, or scummy?
I think Jack is 90% town.
Interesting. After my readthrough yesterday my opinion on Jack basically flipped, there's a bunch of little things that don't feel like they add up to a townie mindset.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 12:36:42 pm
Super Town
Jim
Roden

Very Town
Jack
Vector

Probably Town
4mask
Max

A Complete Mystery
Knightwing

Red Alert wee woo wee woo
TricMagic

Although this does mean all the miller claims are real, which I don't really want to believe. So maybe I'm wrong about Jack or Jim.

PPE:
Toony, what is your Read on Jack, is he being Townie for his playstyle, or scummy?
I think Jack is 90% town.
Interesting. After my readthrough yesterday my opinion on Jack basically flipped, there's a bunch of little things that don't feel like they add up to a townie mindset.
He's been way too hyper active and energetic. I don't think shady Jack spamposts the whole game and gets his nose dirty. Nah...this ain't that Jack.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 12:42:15 pm
Toony, what is your Read on Jack, is he being Townie for his playstyle, or scummy?
I think Jack is 90% town.
Interesting. After my readthrough yesterday my opinion on Jack basically flipped, there's a bunch of little things that don't feel like they add up to a townie mindset.
He's been way too hyper active and energetic. I don't think shady Jack spamposts the whole game and gets his nose dirty. Nah...this ain't that Jack.
Ahhhh meta reads.

re: the three miller claims I'm pretty sure whoever claimed miller second is literally never a wolf for mafia psychology reasons.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 22, 2022, 12:59:26 pm
Super Town
Jim
Roden

Very Town
Jack
Vector

Probably Town
4mask
Max

A Complete Mystery
Knightwing

Red Alert wee woo wee woo
TricMagic

Although this does mean all the miller claims are real, which I don't really want to believe. So maybe I'm wrong about Jack or Jim.
... So ToonyMan is mafia?
Lay out your case against me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 02:37:39 pm
re: the three miller claims I'm pretty sure whoever claimed miller second is literally never a wolf for mafia psychology reasons.
That was Jim.

... So ToonyMan is mafia?
Lay out your case against me.
u smell
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 22, 2022, 02:53:39 pm
That isn't a case Toonyman, just wanting people to vote me...

As is, I think you just are going to wait till I'm alseep or near the end of the day, then let things fall.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 22, 2022, 03:33:12 pm
General question: Who would you kill tonight if you had a kill ability?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 22, 2022, 03:41:30 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361065#msg8361065),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 3 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201),
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 3 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361282#msg8361282), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361064#msg8361064), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361079#msg8361079),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~52 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 22, 2022, 03:42:31 pm
General question: Who would you kill tonight if you had a kill ability?
Myself. :P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 22, 2022, 04:05:36 pm
The argument for townreading Vector temporarily is that Vector could have hidden the double voting by either not activating it or by not voting.
Would you scum read Vector for not voting Day 1?

YES.

BUT ON THE FLIPSIDE I DON'T TOWNREAD ANYBODY JUST FOR VOTING, ONE OF THE MOST BASIC ACTIONS TO PERFORM IN A GAME OF MAFIA. VECTOR CASTING THEIR VOTE, SINGLE OR DOUBLE, DOES NOT AMOUNT TO MUCH FOR ME.

... So ToonyMan is mafia?
Lay out your case against me.
u smell

COULD YOU REFRESH ME ON YOUR CASE AGAINST TRICMAGIC?

TRICMAGIC GOING 'MY ROOOOOOOOOOOLE OMG MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE' LEADS ME TO THINK THIS IS TOWN TRICMAGIC REGARDLESS OF HOW OBNOXIOUS IT IS.

General question: Who would you kill tonight if you had a kill ability?

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

GOOD QUESTION.

I GUESS IF I HAD TO SHOOT ANYBODY IT WOULD BE VECTOR. THEIR TWO POSTS HAVE DONE LITTLE TO CONVINCE ME THAT THEY ARE TOWN.

I GUESS I SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH MY STRONGEST READ AND VOTE VECTOR, BUT IDEALLY I'D LIKE TO HAVE MORE TO GO OFF OF THAN WHAT I HAVE.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 04:30:53 pm
TRICMAGIC GOING 'MY ROOOOOOOOOOOLE OMG MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE' LEADS ME TO THINK THIS IS TOWN TRICMAGIC REGARDLESS OF HOW OBNOXIOUS IT IS.
MY BRAND!

General question: Who would you kill tonight if you had a kill ability?
Tric
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 04:39:35 pm
General question: Who would you kill tonight if you had a kill ability?
Knightwing. Because he is the only player I have no idea at this point. And making posts like this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241)

Or 4mask. 4mask is a good kill.

... So ToonyMan is mafia?
Lay out your case against me.
u smell
COULD YOU REFRESH ME ON YOUR CASE AGAINST TRICMAGIC?
I don't have a case. I've proven everyone else is town which is easier. If I believe Jack and 4mask (which I'm still up in the air about) then that leaves Max, Knightwing, and Tric. I think every other player is town. So that's two mafia between Max, Knightwing, Tric.

TRICMAGIC GOING 'MY ROOOOOOOOOOOLE OMG MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE' LEADS ME TO THINK THIS IS TOWN TRICMAGIC REGARDLESS OF HOW OBNOXIOUS IT IS.
You're right. So Tric is probably town too.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 04:43:00 pm
Actually I'm going to vote Maximum Spin. His votes are bad and it reminds me of him being mafia with FoU in Kill Webadict Now Redux.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 04:43:37 pm
General question: Who would you kill tonight if you had a kill ability?
Or 4mask. 4mask is a good kill.
*Sad 4mask noises*
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 04:52:14 pm
If I believe Jack and 4mask... But I don't exactly have that trust currently.
He's been way too hyper active and energetic. I don't think shady Jack spamposts the whole game and gets his nose dirty. Nah...this ain't that Jack.
If I believe Jack and 4mask (which I'm still up in the air about)
I didn't know you were a politician Toony :wowee:
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2022, 04:52:47 pm
@Knightwing: You have seen scum Toonyman.  Does this recent flailing about look the same or different than scum!Toonyman?

I'm going to pressure vote Vector, as a double voter has more obligation to post than Vector has done.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 04:58:16 pm
If I believe Jack and 4mask... But I don't exactly have that trust currently.
He's been way too hyper active and energetic. I don't think shady Jack spamposts the whole game and gets his nose dirty. Nah...this ain't that Jack.
If I believe Jack and 4mask (which I'm still up in the air about)
I didn't know you were a politician Toony :wowee:
The parenthesis were for you 4mask.

Voting Vector is baaad stop that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 05:01:56 pm
If I believe Jack and 4mask... But I don't exactly have that trust currently.
He's been way too hyper active and energetic. I don't think shady Jack spamposts the whole game and gets his nose dirty. Nah...this ain't that Jack.
If I believe Jack and 4mask (which I'm still up in the air about)
I didn't know you were a politician Toony :wowee:
The parenthesis were for you 4mask.
If you've decided you believe Euchre why even include him there in the same context as me?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2022, 05:04:47 pm
If I believe Jack and 4mask... But I don't exactly have that trust currently.
He's been way too hyper active and energetic. I don't think shady Jack spamposts the whole game and gets his nose dirty. Nah...this ain't that Jack.
If I believe Jack and 4mask (which I'm still up in the air about)
I didn't know you were a politician Toony :wowee:
The parenthesis were for you 4mask.

Voting Vector is baaad stop that.

Well, since we just learned something from the vote, sure.
Unvote
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 05:06:12 pm
If I believe Jack and 4mask... But I don't exactly have that trust currently.
He's been way too hyper active and energetic. I don't think shady Jack spamposts the whole game and gets his nose dirty. Nah...this ain't that Jack.
If I believe Jack and 4mask (which I'm still up in the air about)
I didn't know you were a politician Toony :wowee:
The parenthesis were for you 4mask.
If you've decided you believe Euchre why even include him there in the same context as me?
Because I'm good at grammar and have infused you and Jack into my mind for this game, sorry.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 05:07:01 pm
If I believe Jack and 4mask... But I don't exactly have that trust currently.
He's been way too hyper active and energetic. I don't think shady Jack spamposts the whole game and gets his nose dirty. Nah...this ain't that Jack.
If I believe Jack and 4mask (which I'm still up in the air about)
I didn't know you were a politician Toony :wowee:
The parenthesis were for you 4mask.

Voting Vector is baaad stop that.

Well, since we just learned something from the vote, sure.
Unvote
Yes, stay away from my precious Vector. Not even Roden voted Vector after being voted by them.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2022, 05:07:15 pm
4JackWolf is suspicious of Toonyman!  >:(
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 05:08:36 pm
I think Jack obeying me is probably town too? They like to do that when we're town...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 05:08:59 pm
Yes, stay away from my precious Vector. Not even Roden voted Vector after being voted by them.
Lmao.

4JackWolf is suspicious of Toonyman!  >:(
You leave me out of this >:(
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 05:12:02 pm
I think Jack obeying me is probably town too? They like to do that when we're town...
Do they like to do that as wolf? Lots of wolves like to cozy up to the people they consider strong townies to try and stay out of their immediate kill list.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 05:28:24 pm
Oh it'll be cozy when I shack up with Jack tonight.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 05:32:35 pm
I think Jack obeying me is probably town too? They like to do that when we're town...
Do they like to do that as wolf? Lots of wolves like to cozy up to the people they consider strong townies to try and stay out of their immediate kill list.
I only remember one game where Jack was actually mafia (since they were I guess third-party in KWNRedux) and that was the first round of MVM3, in which it was apparently obvious that Jack and Vector were the mafia team. Jack could be trying new moves if they rolled mafia again of course, but eh. Every other time I either know Jack is town (since I'm mafia) or I'm town and have to debate whether Jack really is town this time and it turns out that yes, every other time he's been town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 05:38:56 pm
Let's take a quote from past me talking about mafia!Jack in that game:
Jack is the most suspicious to me currently. Jack is content with Vector's demise, is pushing Met, and their calm in-control vibe is freaks me out. They must be aware of this and they're townreading me based on this suspicion I have, how do I read this?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 22, 2022, 05:40:43 pm
Oh it'll be cozy when I shack up with Jack tonight.
It’s times like these that I’m reminded that the one thing I miss more than anything when I play here, more than ISOs and vote counts at my fingertips or a bookmarking system, is the fancy emotes on MU. I really want to use the giggle emote here but Bay12 doesn’t have it. :(

I think Jack obeying me is probably town too? They like to do that when we're town...
Do they like to do that as wolf? Lots of wolves like to cozy up to the people they consider strong townies to try and stay out of their immediate kill list.
I only remember one game where Jack was actually mafia (since they were I guess third-party in KWNRedux) and that was the first round of MVM3, in which it was apparently obvious that Jack and Vector were the mafia team. Jack could be trying new moves if they rolled mafia again of course, but eh. Every other time I either know Jack is town (since I'm mafia) or I'm town and have to debate whether Jack really is town this time and it turns out that yes, every other time he's been town.
Ngl a lot of your meta reads feel like they’re “well I only briefly saw this person as wolf once but they were town in all my other games and they don’t feel that much different” which feels kinda weak to be hanging reads off of.

EBWOP:
Let's take a quote from past me talking about mafia!Jack in that game:
Jack is the most suspicious to me currently. Jack is content with Vector's demise, is pushing Met, and their calm in-control vibe is freaks me out. They must be aware of this and they're townreading me based on this suspicion I have, how do I read this?
I’d have to read the game to understand the full context there but thank you!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 05:47:18 pm
I believe Jack was townreading me hard in that Round as mafia and it bugged the heck out of me. They haven't exactly been doing that in this game at least since there's been at least one point where they wanted my head. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361055#msg8361055)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 22, 2022, 06:16:00 pm
I agree with the Jack meta read tbh.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 22, 2022, 06:26:35 pm
I think Jack obeying me is probably town too? They like to do that when we're town...
Jack with the constant unvoting is Town Jack. Sheeping too, not just you. Jack, who you sheeping? Or is Toony attempting to cement in your mind he's your shepherd?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 22, 2022, 06:39:04 pm
I think Toony is actually town here?

Knightwing/4mask would be my PoE...but, that feels way too easy.

Max could be scum but idk why he's softing that he has a reason to believe three Millers could exist. If he's scum then he's basically clearing three townies, unless one of the Miller claims is fake? But I town read Jack, and Jim's counterclaim doesn't seem like it comes from scum.

Tric...idk. I haven't really seen him put on his detective hat yet. I thought his role softing was +town, but a lot of his posts are starting to revolve only around that. If I was wrong somewhere, I'd say it's probably Tric. I'm not confident enough to want to vote him on Day 1 though.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 22, 2022, 07:27:08 pm
What the hell?

I can understand 4Mask, I guess, but what did I do? Explain
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2022, 07:40:13 pm
What the hell?

I can understand 4Mask, I guess, but what did I do? Explain
It would help if you asked a specific question to a specific player, then hounded them relentlessly until they answered that question.

You are mostly being suspected because of your lack of activity, so you would be helping yourself too.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 22, 2022, 07:55:06 pm
What the hell?

I can understand 4Mask, I guess, but what did I do? Explain
It would help if you asked a specific question to a specific player, then hounded them relentlessly until they answered that question.

You are mostly being suspected because of your lack of activity, so you would be helping yourself too.

Alright. I got you. I’m tired, but tomorrow, I GOT SUM QUESTIONS
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 22, 2022, 07:55:41 pm
What the hell?

I can understand 4Mask, I guess, but what did I do? Explain
You haven't really done anything, which is partially the problem. I mostly town read everyone else and don't have much I can read you on.

What do you mean by "I can understand 4mask, I guess"?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Knightwing64 on March 22, 2022, 08:08:20 pm
What the hell?

I can understand 4Mask, I guess, but what did I do? Explain
You haven't really done anything, which is partially the problem. I mostly town read everyone else and don't have much I can read you on.

What do you mean by "I can understand 4mask, I guess"?

I dunno, I remember reading somebody sussing them
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 22, 2022, 10:45:07 pm
Yes, stay away from my precious Vector. Not even Roden voted Vector after being voted by them.

HM?

Roden
Vector

NOT RELATED TO THIS COMMENT IN PARTICULAR BUT I HAD A THOUGHT THAT YOU'VE BEEN ALL OVER THE PLACE ON DAY 1, TOONYMAN, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW I WANT TO FEEL ABOUT IT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 11:32:38 pm
I done goofed. My mind is a fog.

Roden makes a post after where they go into reasoning why they think Vector is town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361275#msg8361275) so I had forgotten he did vote Vector initially.

I did see this post as well (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361046#msg8361046) where they had meta insight on two players, has this been followed up on yet? I don't believe so and it could be helpful!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 22, 2022, 11:35:33 pm
Knightwing/4mask would be my PoE...but, that feels way too easy.
Hey Max, what do you think? Do you think Roden is correct?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 23, 2022, 02:29:53 am
Knightwing/4mask would be my PoE...but, that feels way too easy.
Hey Max, what do you think? Do you think Roden is correct?
That Knightwing and 4mask are the mafia, or that it feels way too easy?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 03:11:21 am
Kinda awkward to cross examine someone on something they said a year ago, but http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.msg8318961#msg8318961 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.msg8318961#msg8318961)

I was trying to compare Town! Toonyman Day 1 to Mafia! Toonyman Day 1, and I came across the above quote from Town Toonyman.

@Toonyman: Would you say you have been threatened with elimination today? Would you say you have tried to go after your top suspect? WHO is your top suspect?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 23, 2022, 06:22:35 am
Knightwing/4mask would be my PoE...but, that feels way too easy.
Hey Max, what do you think? Do you think Roden is correct?
That Knightwing and 4mask are the mafia, or that it feels way too easy?
Well whether you agreed or not would make which part to respond to easy, no?

@Toonyman: Would you say you have been threatened with elimination today? Would you say you have tried to go after your top suspect? WHO is your top suspect?
I haven't felt particularly threatened.

I haven't had a top suspect. I think I've been moving my vote more than normal. I'm trying to incorporate what other players have been saying in my judgement. For example, Roden clearing Vector and Jim clearing Tric have helped me decide on players I am uncertain of.

I am still unsure of 4mask, Max, and Knightwing. So if players want to help me and not respond to a question with another question to stall (like Max) then that would be nice.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 23, 2022, 07:36:27 am
That Knightwing and 4mask are the mafia, or that it feels way too easy?
Well whether you agreed or not would make which part to respond to easy, no?
No, it still seems kind of important since those two things are opposites. I can only agree with at most half the statement, since it expresses ambivalence, so I need to know which half you care about.

I guess there is a third option which is also the correct one, which is to say, I can neither confirm nor deny either of those two things; but that's not what you're looking for, right?

I've just finished reading a lot of psychoanalysis, and as a direct result I keep wanting to make everything about geese, so let me sum up instead: I think my vote is in the right place, so from my perspective, Roden is wrong for moving his. For everything else, please see prop. 7.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 23, 2022, 09:10:39 am
You voted Vector because they're a double voter, right? I don't see how you can be content with that. You even said I could wipe that ability from Vector tonight if they're still alive, and I bet I could too. So that's it then? Sit on Vector? Hope it works out?

What are your thoughts on 4mask and Knightwing? And the Three Millers?

Jack has seemed doubtful of the other millers.
Jim and Roden have seemed fine with it?
4mask has specifically backed up Jim with psychoanalysis.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 10:30:36 am
A thought: In Totem Mafia 3, there were multiple vote manipulators.  Two double voters and a vote stealer.
We have three millers (of which probably at least two are legitimate?)

So...we might have another vote manipulator.  With that in mind, I would suggest building in an extra cushion for voting near hammer range.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 10:37:53 am
I think Jack obeying me is probably town too? They like to do that when we're town...
Jack with the constant unvoting is Town Jack. Sheeping too, not just you. Jack, who you sheeping? Or is Toony attempting to cement in your mind he's your shepherd?
I think the recent chronology was sheeping Jim, then sheeping Toonyman.
I think Toony is scum, so I'm currently shepardless.

I'd sheep Vector if they posted something decent.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 23, 2022, 11:00:58 am
Jack, do you believe Jim and Roden?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 12:07:55 pm
Jack, do you believe Jim and Roden?
Jim yes. I believe we are seeing Town!Jim.
Suspicious of Roden.  Which is more a complement of Roden's scumplay than anything else.  At least for Day 1, Roden is relatively similar as town or mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 12:11:18 pm
@Roden: What are your reasons for suspecting 4maskwolf?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 12:13:22 pm
I will say this though: two specific players feel a little off. It's a meta read, and the game still barely just started, so I won't say who they are yet since I don't want to tip them off. If it persists, I'll say who they are before the day ends.
Oh, are we nearing the point where we get an answer to this?  :D
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 23, 2022, 01:09:21 pm
If you think I'm scum and suspect Roden then don't you think there's a pretty high likelihood it's the two of us then? From your POV you even know there's two other players with a similar miller claim. Why were you willing to vote Vector before? Is that a third pick?

Listen, if you think I'm mafia then sheep Jim. You believe Jim over Roden which I believe is the correct choice from your POV, and I think it's extremely unlikely he's mafia if you're town.

Jim is wrong about Vector. Vector is town. If you don't believe me then why did you unvote Vector for me?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 23, 2022, 01:11:19 pm
Actually, sorry I didn't say that properly.

Jim should be more suspicious than Roden from your POV, can you see why?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 23, 2022, 03:02:49 pm
Here is a question for you, ToonyMan, whether you are real or an emanation of swamp gases:

Do you believe that it would be wrong for a player to hold suspicions against three or more others, because we have been told there are two killers? You seem to have implied several times that you do.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 23, 2022, 03:30:21 pm
Toony's play is fuckin' whack this game, moreso than usual. I've been trying to tamp down my paranoia because I know I'm bad at reading him and if he's town and we can find each other then the game is probably already resolved but urrrrrrrrgh.

I'm gonna go reread D1 of the last Wubba BYOR for comparison.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 23, 2022, 03:46:28 pm
Yeah Toony's way more laid back and casual this game and it's freaking me out.

Like if he's town it's nice but I look at a major attitude shift and my first thought is "wolf". Especially since being more casual and carefree can be a wolftell for good wolves and Toony is a good player.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 23, 2022, 04:00:46 pm
Vote count program has been updated to account for WHEN a player was voted! Votes are now ordered chronologically (Non-voters are still sorted alphabetically.)!

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Maximum Spin - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361437#msg8361437),
Roden - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361282#msg8361282), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361444#msg8361444),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~28 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 23, 2022, 04:12:00 pm
EuchreJack

I have no meta read here but their entire ISO is full of little wolfy things.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Honestly I'm stopping there because I could go through and hyper-analyze every single Euchrejack post but that's both unhelpful and more likely to muddle the issue than clarify it. I encourage everyone to go read through EuchreJack's posts and focus on their progression. They're constantly bouncing around, throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, and their progression on people never feels natural, just manufactured to whatever they happen to latch onto at the time. And none of this in a townie way, either, it feels agenda-y, "Imma throw shade around and see what sticks" kinda way.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 23, 2022, 04:41:40 pm
EUCHREJACK'S PLAY REGULARLY BEING COMPLETE NONSENSE IS NOT EVEN REMOTELY OUT OF CHARACTER FOR HIM.

ALTHOUGH I'LL SAY THAT EUCHREJACK DOES FEEL OFF THIS GAME COMPARED TO SOME OF THE RECENT GAMES I'VE PLAYED WITH HIM. IN THOSE RECENT GAMES EUCHREJACK SURPRISED ME BY MAKING SENSE ROUGHLY HALF THE TIME COMPARED TO OLDER GAMES AND THIS GAME WHERE HE MADE SENSE NONE OF THE TIME. SO THIS GAME IS STILL CONSISTENT WITH MY META READ OF HIM BUT IT'S MORE LIKE I'M SEEING EUCHREJACK VERSION 1.0 COMPARED TO EUCHREJACK VERSION 1.2 I SAW MORE RECENTLY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS.

TOONYMAN FEELS OFF TO ME AS WELL AND IF I HAD TO DESCRIBE IT IT FEELS LIKE HE'S MORE PLIABLE, MORE SUGGESTIBLE THAN I FEEL LIKE I'M USED TO.



I WANT VECTOR TO PLAY.

votecount

I'D ALSO LIKE TO SEE A CONSENSUS DEVELOP FOR THE DAY 1 LYNCH.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 23, 2022, 04:46:08 pm
TOONYMAN FEELS OFF TO ME AS WELL AND IF I HAD TO DESCRIBE IT IT FEELS LIKE HE'S MORE PLIABLE, MORE SUGGESTIBLE THAN I FEEL LIKE I'M USED TO.

I WANT VECTOR TO PLAY.
Both big moods.

It's also hard to play when everyone is expected to spew nonsense and I can't read them lmao.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 05:24:17 pm
Fuck you all, my dad just died. Hence Jack 1.0 rather than Jack 1.2
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 05:24:58 pm
 Toonyman
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 05:35:47 pm
Disregarding meta, does 4makwolf's analysis versus me make sense?
Is it a natural progression based upon their previous posts?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 05:39:50 pm
I'd welcome further analysis of my play by 4maskwolf, although in spoiler text to avoid clogging up the thread.
I would like to play better.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 06:47:11 pm
Fuck you all, my dad just died. Hence Jack 1.0 rather than Jack 1.2
Sends virtual hugs.


Roden is very much in hammer range if there is anyone else with vote alteration. I kinda doubt it though. And Toonyman seems to be playing off to me too. Laid back is very much a good way to put it, other than defending Vector.

Also, please do not murder Jack without reasons beyond his posts? He doesn't really feel scummy to me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 06:47:56 pm
Granted, I have my own reasons for that, which will be revealed if I die.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 23, 2022, 07:24:04 pm
You guys should just vote for Vector.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 07:45:04 pm
You guys should just vote for Vector.
That doesn't net us any info. Vector's a null right now. Our only proof against him is a double vote. Toony's lunch meanwhile does give data.
That and vector is a prime target for informationally roles. Also, who is it that said they can wipe autos? Cause that can be very anti-town if we all have an auto. I assume all millers have multiple auto-abilities.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 07:48:24 pm
... I swear if I get hit with an auto-canceler I am going to be mad... I'm going to go check myself.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 23, 2022, 07:54:48 pm
Do you believe that it would be wrong for a player to hold suspicions against three or more others, because we have been told there are two killers? You seem to have implied several times that you do.
I do hold suspicions against more than 2 players currently, yes. And I know I'm wrong which is a problem I find myself face.

EuchreJack
Do you think Jim and Roden are town then? Or that Jack is ploying with one of them?

@Jack:
I don't know how to say this, but personal remarks are pretty inappropriate to post in-game regardless of your alignment.

You guys should just vote for Vector.
You're going to make Knightwing feel ignored.

... I swear if I get hit with an auto-canceler I am going to be mad... I'm going to go check myself.
Hehehe
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 07:56:00 pm
I could vote Toonyman, but it's too early to bring him one vote away from hammer.

My stealth and false inspection as Mafia are linked auto abilities.
I don't see any town reasons to keep this secret.
My Miller is auto, but it isn't called Miller and actually has two negative effects. If I get voted out, whoever hammers me also steals my ability.
So two out of three Millers are known to have two autos. I can assume Roden's ability theft is actually a negative on whoever steals it?

I think Jim could be right that Jack and Tric are just the mafia, but I don't really feel that energy.

One of my abilities removes a player's autos from them. I assume being a Miller is one of the autos you have, so I am not fully surprised by three miller claims as there's probably a lot of autos among the cast. For example, I could "scrub" a miller clean and have them not be a miller anymore. I find three miller claims suspicious still though and suspect Jack more than Jim or Roden currently.

Can one of the millers confirm if millerhood is an auto ability?
Autos, plural. Wording counts, so assuming Roden has a negative impact on the hammerer, removing it from circulation would be useful. (Sorry for busting that trick open Roden.) Likewise Jack's stealth is linked to his miller auto. Removing it weakens him.

In the same manner, my Autos, if removed, would severely weaken me. So that's 3 out of 4 so far. Vector having a double vote as an auto makes 5 players with autos so far. Any others?


Ninja'd by the Toon himself. Got anything to say?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 23, 2022, 07:59:13 pm
I don't know, I feel like removing a player's autos would help most of the time. For example if I target one of the Three Millers: If they're town they'll stop being a miller, if they're mafia then they're not really a miller and I'm probably getting rid of one of their hidden lies.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 08:02:46 pm
When did Toonyman start his absolute defense of One Post Vector?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 08:03:01 pm
Doesn't actually help that night unless you outspeed investigation actions. And no, it really doesn't if the actual millers have good abilities. Making jack susceptible to death is a negative. Removing the hammer/steal on Roden is a negative if his ability actively harms the owner. And whatever Max has.

.. check on order of claims, who was second/last.

Nin, I'll check that too.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 23, 2022, 08:03:04 pm
You guys should just vote for Vector.
That doesn't net us any info. Vector's a null right now. Our only proof against him is a double vote. Toony's lunch meanwhile does give data.
That and vector is a prime target for informationally roles. Also, who is it that said they can wipe autos? Cause that can be very anti-town if we all have an auto. I assume all millers have multiple auto-abilities.
See, even Tric agrees!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 08:05:02 pm
I can be night killed, it's just all other night actions that don't work on me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 08:08:09 pm
Toony started on the Vector defend right after it was revealed he had two votes. I think.
And yeah, you are acting rather carToonyMan. It's not a good look, but then neither does it look good on Jack and I. We just seem to be town when we don't make sense?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 08:14:37 pm
Jack, Jim, Roden. That's the order of Millers. 4mask and Toony both claimed redpeaks at the start. I'm more likely to believe 4mask's claim of peeking Jim.

I can be inspected and will flip mafia.
will flip mafia.
Do I think Webadict would have a town role that flips mafia in a non-bastard?

...

I don't. You're interpreting incorrectly or lying.

I got a mafia result on Roden.
Is this a serious claim?
You tell me.
Please just answer the question.
Saying you got a redpeek is not a good look.
Anyway, Jim fessed up as a Miller pretty much right after. Not sure if this can count as voluntary reveal.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 23, 2022, 08:16:05 pm
... That being said, leaving Toony alive to either wipe us, or get redirected if he is town, is not something we'd want. I can also assume no guns in the population given I literally asked people to shoot me. It hasn't happened.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 23, 2022, 09:11:27 pm
@Tric: While I don't think your survival is relevant, Jim's survival probably rules out a day one day kill.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 01:31:21 am
You guys should just vote for Vector.
That doesn't net us any info. Vector's a null right now. Our only proof against him is a double vote. Toony's lunch meanwhile does give data.
That and vector is a prime target for informationally roles. Also, who is it that said they can wipe autos? Cause that can be very anti-town if we all have an auto. I assume all millers have multiple auto-abilities.
A) Maybe to you. B) ToonyMan. C) I don't think it's necessarily anti-town; autos can be bad.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 08:47:25 am
You guys should just vote for Vector.
That doesn't net us any info. Vector's a null right now. Our only proof against him is a double vote. Toony's lunch meanwhile does give data.
That and vector is a prime target for informationally roles. Also, who is it that said they can wipe autos? Cause that can be very anti-town if we all have an auto. I assume all millers have multiple auto-abilities.
A) Maybe to you. B) ToonyMan. C) I don't think it's necessarily anti-town; autos can be bad.
.... It is way too late in the day. Are we voting Toony out or am I revealing?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 11:08:33 am
I'm voting Toonyman, although he has done a good job of making it look personal rather than a build up due to constant scummy Toonyman behavior.
So dunno if any support on the Vote Toonyman campaign trail.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 11:11:44 am
Vote count program has been updated to account for WHEN a player was voted! Votes are now ordered chronologically (Non-voters are still sorted alphabetically.)!

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Maximum Spin - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361437#msg8361437),
Roden - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361282#msg8361282), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361444#msg8361444),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~28 hours remaining).


Note: The current vote is being decided by lurkers Knightwing64 & Vector. If you would like the vote to be decided by actual participants, you need to outvote Team Lurker.

Vector & Toonyman now have two each, due to votes after the above votecount.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 11:17:01 am
Tric is probably town and we aren't fucking hammering Toony.

Nice OMGUS Roden, proud of ya. It's clear the forum raised you right.

Vector Profile Page (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=15916)

So Vector is AWOL.  Suspicious since Vector did the same thing when we were scumbuddies.
I would say either Vector or Toonyman would be viable votes.  Either as scum could be setting the other up for a Day 2 lynch.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 24, 2022, 11:24:08 am
Hi, got prodded by Webby. Sorry for being AWOL. Rereading now.

We're suspecting me for a. not announcing that I'm a double voter while b. taking actions that make it clear I'm a double voter?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 24, 2022, 11:26:30 am
Oh, PS: It's automatic. Duh-doy.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 24, 2022, 11:33:50 am
Unvote
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 24, 2022, 11:49:50 am
Reads:

I read Euchrejack as town even before his in-thread revelation. The reason why is that I don't think he's very good at playing scum yet and it's been pretty obvious the last few times what was going on.

Roden autovoted me (which is what I was checking for by dropping a hot vote and leaving, although I left longer than intended) but seems on the whole much less homicidal than last time he played scum. I don't want him dead D1.

This Jim post is pinging my gut:

EUCHREJACK'S PLAY REGULARLY BEING COMPLETE NONSENSE IS NOT EVEN REMOTELY OUT OF CHARACTER FOR HIM.

ALTHOUGH I'LL SAY THAT EUCHREJACK DOES FEEL OFF THIS GAME COMPARED TO SOME OF THE RECENT GAMES I'VE PLAYED WITH HIM. IN THOSE RECENT GAMES EUCHREJACK SURPRISED ME BY MAKING SENSE ROUGHLY HALF THE TIME COMPARED TO OLDER GAMES AND THIS GAME WHERE HE MADE SENSE NONE OF THE TIME. SO THIS GAME IS STILL CONSISTENT WITH MY META READ OF HIM BUT IT'S MORE LIKE I'M SEEING EUCHREJACK VERSION 1.0 COMPARED TO EUCHREJACK VERSION 1.2 I SAW MORE RECENTLY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS.

TOONYMAN FEELS OFF TO ME AS WELL AND IF I HAD TO DESCRIBE IT IT FEELS LIKE HE'S MORE PLIABLE, MORE SUGGESTIBLE THAN I FEEL LIKE I'M USED TO.

One of the standard stronger scum play structures is "this is totally normal but actually because of X Y Z maybe we should kill this dude."


... That being said, leaving Toony alive to either wipe us, or get redirected if he is town, is not something we'd want. I can also assume no guns in the population given I literally asked people to shoot me. It hasn't happened.

Tric, they're maybe not wasting a gun on you D1.


General question: Who would you kill tonight if you had a kill ability?

This post is weird. I would kill Tric cuz he asked nicely. Obviously. And cuz he called me "he" again :V

I'm kidding. I'd kill you, Max Spin, because you're playing outside of meta ;)


Knightwing64 where are you and what are your reads?

Roden

Napping in my house. I feel like Jim is town, he just seems like a townie person, I guess. Also, this has been said by other people, but Toony is acting kind of unusual this game, I guess.

Writing down this third vote bandwagoning and references to Jim + Toony for posterity.


Let's see, who's left ... Toony? and 4mask? I can't read either rn, that's a problem for future Vector.

Quote
Jack, Jim, Roden.

Jack and Jim are fighting. I don't think that they're of the same alignment and of these, Jim is definitely more likely to be able to make a fake miller claim. Roden as scum notably plays wild and stupid fakeclaims early D1, so the claim definitely doesn't rule him out.

"Hammer me and you'll get my abilities" makes him less likely, though. From a reverse perspective he can claim that any bandwagon that forms on him is to grab his shit, but I think that's a bit too far into tinfoil hatting for D1.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 24, 2022, 11:51:47 am
OK, the path forward is clear. Jim! Let's fight.

I don't think anyone has asked you what you think about all the miller claims.

Also, what's your read on 4mask?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 12:09:15 pm
Sheeping Vector
Jim
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 12:15:14 pm
To be clear, I think Vector's strategy of challenging Jim is sound, yet I don't think Vector's one vote on Jim would be sufficient.
...yup forgot Vector has two votes.
Let us keep the pressure on Jim for a bit. When is end of day?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 12:28:00 pm
Mafia salivate at the possibility of an easy free lynch which is another reason why Vector and Knightwing aren't good votes. Although now Vector has done more so maybe we can not be lazy with our votes.

@Vector:
That's pretty sound. I also believe if there's a mafia inside the group it would be between Jack or Jim. However, Jack's behavior rings town so I can understand facing Jim.

Let me think about this. If Jim is mafia it's probably with 4mask. 4mask backed up Jim in a way that didn't mention Jim, which is suspicious.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 12:46:39 pm
OK, the path forward is clear. Jim! Let's fight.

I don't think anyone has asked you what you think about all the miller claims.

Also, what's your read on 4mask?

I DON'T THINK MUCH ABOUT THE MILLER CLAIMS. IF YOU TOLD ME THERE WERE THREE MILLER CLAIMS IN A GAME OF NINE PLAYERS I WOULD SAY THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THEM IS PROBABLY SCUM BUT EUCHREJACK AND RODEN AREN'T REALLY READING AS SCUM TO ME.

'HURR DURR THEN YOU MUST BE THE SCUM'

NO. READS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN ROLES AND WEBADICT GAMES PUNISH PLAYERS FOR MAKING MECHANICAL ASSUMPTIONS.

4MASKWOLF IS MAKING SEVERAL OBSERVATIONS I AGREE WITH SO ON BALANCE I HAVE HIM LEANING TOWN BUT HE'S DEFINITELY IN THE CATEGORY OF SKILLED ENOUGH TO TERRIFY ME.

Let me think about this. If Jim is mafia it's probably with 4mask. 4mask backed up Jim in a way that didn't mention Jim, which is suspicious.

IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY 1 BUT YOU'VE CHANGED YOUR OPINION ONCE ABOUT ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME SO FAR.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 12:49:21 pm
This Jim post is pinging my gut:

EUCHREJACK'S PLAY REGULARLY BEING COMPLETE NONSENSE IS NOT EVEN REMOTELY OUT OF CHARACTER FOR HIM.

ALTHOUGH I'LL SAY THAT EUCHREJACK DOES FEEL OFF THIS GAME COMPARED TO SOME OF THE RECENT GAMES I'VE PLAYED WITH HIM. IN THOSE RECENT GAMES EUCHREJACK SURPRISED ME BY MAKING SENSE ROUGHLY HALF THE TIME COMPARED TO OLDER GAMES AND THIS GAME WHERE HE MADE SENSE NONE OF THE TIME. SO THIS GAME IS STILL CONSISTENT WITH MY META READ OF HIM BUT IT'S MORE LIKE I'M SEEING EUCHREJACK VERSION 1.0 COMPARED TO EUCHREJACK VERSION 1.2 I SAW MORE RECENTLY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS.

TOONYMAN FEELS OFF TO ME AS WELL AND IF I HAD TO DESCRIBE IT IT FEELS LIKE HE'S MORE PLIABLE, MORE SUGGESTIBLE THAN I FEEL LIKE I'M USED TO.

One of the standard stronger scum play structures is "this is totally normal but actually because of X Y Z maybe we should kill this dude."

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN TO IMPLY HERE.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 12:52:04 pm
I think there is at most one fakeclaim within the miller claims, and it's almost certainly not Jim. I'd say >rand Roden town just off the miller claim if I'm going with my gut but that's making a lot of assumptions about Roden's play since I have no meta there. I also have barely noticed anything Roden has said so I should, y'know, probably do that.

Vector revealing an automatic double-vote by voting is NAI and anyone who says otherwise is, what is it the kids say these days, sus?

I'm sorry that happened, EuchreJack.

Let's see... Jim town, Roden maybe town with the assumptions I'm currently operating under, Vector exists, Jack and Toony are unpartnered, history says my confidence in my Jack wolfread means Jack is 95% town, and trying to D1 read anyone I don't have some kind of meta read on is hell. Also Jim and (sigh) Tric are still correct that Toony is acting out of the ordinary and it's throwing me off.

Oh yeah and Knightwing is being especially unhelpful so that or Tricmagic can die in the night.

Let me think about this. If Jim is mafia it's probably with 4mask. 4mask backed up Jim in a way that didn't mention Jim, which is suspicious.

IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY 1 BUT YOU'VE CHANGED YOUR OPINION ONCE ABOUT ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME SO FAR.
I'm inclined to say that's a good thing because I can follow the trains of logic Toony is using for each of those changes, even if I don't necessarily agree with them. Toony's good enough to fake it as a wolf but each time his reads shift naturally I'm moving him more and more towards town, from an objective gameplay perspective. If this is his new way of playing town it's a good look.

4MASKWOLF IS MAKING SEVERAL OBSERVATIONS I AGREE WITH SO ON BALANCE I HAVE HIM LEANING TOWN BUT HE'S DEFINITELY IN THE CATEGORY OF SKILLED ENOUGH TO TERRIFY ME.
You're seriously overselling my play lol.



Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 01:03:11 pm
Also Tric it was established, like, ages ago that Toony and I's "claims" were utter bullshit meant to provoke reactions.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 01:18:52 pm
Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.

I had the somewhat similar thought of "Is Toonyman Mafia-Ally?"
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 01:22:02 pm
Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.

I had the somewhat similar thought of "Is Toonyman Mafia-Ally?"
I'm not sure a mafia ally can exist in a 9-player format unless there isn't a traditional wolfteam (which isn't out of the question for a webadict game but I'm going to assume 2-player wolfteam until proven otherwise), but some kind of independent third party is certainly in the cards. Wuba seems to like including outsider/unusual wincons in games.

It's not something I really want to pursue right now but I had the thought while I was writing that big post so I thought I'd share it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 01:26:41 pm
Vector revealing an automatic double-vote by voting is NAI and anyone who says otherwise is, what is it the kids say these days, sus?
Nobody's saying otherwise. The vote wasn't the point.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 01:29:17 pm
The argument for townreading Vector temporarily is that Vector could have hidden the double voting by either not activating it or by not voting.

Wait, what? Why would Vector out that they're a double voter like that without claiming beforehand?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 01:30:47 pm
Hah... Well, Jack is off his Rocker, following Vector. I'm likely to get hit by Toony as it is. So..

Role:Claim: I'm a reviving doctor. So long as the person I befriended Day 1 is alive, I will revive infinitely. On the flipside, my doctor results don't show up on my side or the one I target. Oh, and that revival of mine happens to be an Auto. Which Toony can wipe.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 01:32:28 pm
Is claiming D1 under no pressure the new meta in BYORs and I missed it?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 01:40:29 pm
The argument for townreading Vector temporarily is that Vector could have hidden the double voting by either not activating it or by not voting.

Wait, what? Why would Vector out that they're a double voter like that without claiming beforehand?
Okay, fine, I just wanted to emphasize that I'm not saying otherwise, happy?

Is claiming D1 under no pressure the new meta in BYORs and I missed it?
... sort of yes
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 01:41:41 pm
Hah... Well, Jack is off his Rocker, following Vector. I'm likely to get hit by Toony as it is. So..

Role:Claim: I'm a reviving doctor. So long as the person I befriended Day 1 is alive, I will revive infinitely. On the flipside, my doctor results don't show up on my side or the one I target. Oh, and that revival of mine happens to be an Auto. Which Toony can wipe.
Why are you convinced Toony will target you? Nobody even suggested it and there are seven other people available.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 01:45:14 pm
Because he's either Mafia and may target me. Or he's town and mafia has a redirect that will force it on me. Or mafia decides to kill the one I befriended. At this point with an auto-wipe, I can't actually use my other ability, since I need my auto to do so.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 01:47:19 pm
Tric why did you reveal that
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 01:50:57 pm
Tric why did you reveal that
On the bright side, does anyone still hold doubt that this is town Tric?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 01:51:57 pm
Tric, do you know what the best way to keep the mafia from learning information about your role to counter it is?

Hint: It's not to share any information about your role publicly.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 01:53:34 pm
I think 4mask is mafia, he's made big posts on players like Jack and Tric to throw dirt on them but I don't really feel like he cares whether they're town or not. He's also pushing for Roden over Jack and Jim even though Vector is correct that it makes more sense for Jack or Jim to be mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 01:54:57 pm
Tric why did you reveal that
On the bright side, does anyone still hold doubt that this is town Tric?
It's town Tric. I think you're an okay guy Max for the time being.

4mask
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 01:56:13 pm
I think 4mask is mafia, he's made big posts on players like Jack and Tric to throw dirt on them but I don't really feel like he cares whether they're town or not. He's also pushing for Roden over Jack and Jim even though Vector is correct that it makes more sense for Jack or Jim to be mafia.
What.

I'm literally voting Jack because I think Jack is mafia and you say I'm pushing Roden over him.

Fucking lol.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 02:00:10 pm
I don't think Roden's really been pushed at all Toony. I'm just annoyed at Jack Sheeping all day 1.
Jack, vote Toony.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 02:04:21 pm
Honestly Toonyman breaking from his fairly sensible progressions thus far to accuse me on false premises after I float the possibility of him being third party may be the most alignment indicative thing I've seen from him all game.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 02:13:52 pm
Yes Tric, kill me so I can't ruin the toys you've ruined yourself. I wasn't planning on targeting you tonight, but it doesn't really matter what I say on night actions.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 02:15:13 pm
I think 4mask is mafia, he's made big posts on players like Jack and Tric to throw dirt on them but I don't really feel like he cares whether they're town or not. He's also pushing for Roden over Jack and Jim even though Vector is correct that it makes more sense for Jack or Jim to be mafia.
What.

I'm literally voting Jack because I think Jack is mafia and you say I'm pushing Roden over him.

Fucking lol.
I can't read, remove that section from the document.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 02:16:34 pm
I think 4mask is mafia, he's made big posts on players like Jack and Tric to throw dirt on them but I don't really feel like he cares whether they're town or not. He's also pushing for Roden over Jack and Jim even though Vector is correct that it makes more sense for Jack or Jim to be mafia.
What.

I'm literally voting Jack because I think Jack is mafia and you say I'm pushing Roden over him.

Fucking lol.
I can't read, remove that section from the document.
:wowee: :wowee: :wowee:
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 02:16:58 pm
I think 4mask is mafia, he's made big posts on players like Jack and Tric to throw dirt on them but I don't really feel like he cares whether they're town or not. He's also pushing for Roden and Jack over Jim even though Vector is correct that it makes more sense for Jack or Jim to be mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 02:19:13 pm
I think 4mask is mafia, he's made big posts on players like Jack and Tric to throw dirt on them but I don't really feel like he cares whether they're town or not. He's also pushing for Roden and Jack over Jim even though Vector is correct that it makes more sense for Jack or Jim to be mafia.
"Strike that from the record your honor" proceeds to say the exact same thing like a boss :P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 02:19:49 pm
Truth is I just sorta post what I see when I see it, if that makes it seem like I don't actually care then :sparkleshrug:
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 02:20:47 pm
Honestly Toonyman breaking from his fairly sensible progressions thus far to accuse me on false premises after I float the possibility of him being third party may be the most alignment indicative thing I've seen from him all game.
@Webadict:
How many thirdparty are in this game?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 02:23:44 pm
@Webadict:
How many thirdparty are in this game?
At least 0. And no more than 9.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 02:25:51 pm
@Webadict:
How many thirdparty are in this game?
At least 0. And no more than 9.
<3 Love you Wubs
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 03:08:12 pm
@Webadict:
How many thirdparty are in this game?
At least 0. And no more than 9.
It's Not in Blue!!!!

Hah... Well, Jack is off his Rocker, following Vector. I'm likely to get hit by Toony as it is. So..

Role:Claim: I'm a reviving doctor. So long as the person I befriended Day 1 is alive, I will revive infinitely. On the flipside, my doctor results don't show up on my side or the one I target. Oh, and that revival of mine happens to be an Auto. Which Toony can wipe.

So, as long as I live, Tric lives?
...someone hand me a gun, please.  :P

As for voting, a vote for Toony is currently a Vote for a tie.  Whereas a vote for Jim is a vote to lynch.  I think I'll keep voting Jim for a while longer, unless someone else is interested in voting Toony.

I really need to look everyone over again before end of day. I suspect a Chinese Fire Drill is in our future.  >:(
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 03:12:57 pm
Why are 4mask and Toonyman both single-voting, as in, placing a single vote that won't lead to a lynch?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 03:18:42 pm
Ah yes, but a lynch is made of many individual votes.

I'm not voting myself or Jim, so.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 03:19:31 pm
@Roden: Are you buying what 4mask & Toonyman are selling?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 03:24:23 pm
I've stopped voting Jim primarily because those whom I suspect all think Jim is Town, and since mafia know who is Town, I conclude Jim is town.
I don't suspect Vector as this point.  Nobody has counter-claimed double voter, etc, so I think Vector is town with an auto double vote.  Probably some downside that Vector hasn't seen fit to tell us.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 03:26:51 pm
Honestly Toonyman breaking from his fairly sensible progressions thus far to accuse me on false premises after I float the possibility of him being third party may be the most alignment indicative thing I've seen from him all game.

@4maskwolf: IF you are town, isn't it better to join me in voting Toonyman to get the lynch of one of your top suspects, even though I may be your other suspect?
From your POV, you would be helping eliminate scum, and its possible I might be bussing Toonyman.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 03:34:50 pm
I GO GET LUNCH WITH PEOPLE FROM MY OLD JOB FOR TWO HOURS AND I COME BACK TO FIND A ROLE CLAIM AND TOONYMAN REPEATING HIMSELF.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS GAME ANYMORE.

HOW MUCH TIME IS LEFT IN DAY 1?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 03:43:13 pm
End of day is 8pm CDT, so 2 hours 18 minutes from what I can tell.

@WebMOD: Can you confirm?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 03:54:13 pm
ALSO FUCK YOU AND YOUR MATH PROBLEMS, VECTOR, YOU WANTED TO FIGHT ME COME FIGHT ME

FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 03:57:41 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
EuchreJack - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361690#msg8361690),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
ToonyMan - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361953#msg8361953),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (4 hours and 2 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 03:59:07 pm
KNIGHTWING64 AND RODEN HAVE BEEN QUIET RECENTLY TOO.

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (4 hours and 2 minutes remaining.)

TIME TO GET A MOVE ON THIS STUFF THEN.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 04:00:18 pm
JIM IS FIGHT CLUB, calling it now. As is votes are tied 3 ways, and one of those is Vector on Jim.


Ninja'd. Vector came in and made a post, then left. If Toony doesn't pull ahead, I'll move to Vector.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 04:14:10 pm
JIM IS FIGHT CLUB, calling it now. As is votes are tied 3 ways, and one of those is Vector on Jim.


Ninja'd. Vector came in and made a post, then left. If Toony doesn't pull ahead, I'll move to Vector.
Why Vector?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 04:54:53 pm
What is even going on in this thread.

You guys noticed that weird Tric and Jack thing, right?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 04:56:51 pm
TOONYMAN, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON RODEN NOW THAT HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING FOR TWO DAYS?

I think 4mask is mafia, he's made big posts on players like Jack and Tric to throw dirt on them but I don't really feel like he cares whether they're town or not. He's also pushing for Roden over Jack and Jim even though Vector is correct that it makes more sense for Jack or Jim to be mafia.
What.

I'm literally voting Jack because I think Jack is mafia and you say I'm pushing Roden over him.

Fucking lol.

IS THERE SOMETHING TO TOONYMAN AND RODEN? OF ALL TOONYMAN'S INTERACTIONS I FIND THE ONES REGARDING RODEN AND VECTOR STRANGEST. HE DEFENDS HIS TOWN READS WHICH INCLUDES MORE THAN JUST RODEN AND VECTOR BUT THOSE TWO HAVE PLAYED WEAKER, LESS ACTIVE GAMES THAN HIS OTHER TOWN READS, SO HIS DEFENSE OF THEM SEEMS UNEARNED COMPARED TO HIS OTHER TOWN READS.

TOONYMAN ALSO STARTED THE GAME VOTING RODEN WITH A FAKE GUILTY INSPECT, RODEN TAKES HIM SERIOUSLY, AND THEN TOONYMAN BACKS OFF AND CLEARS HIM FOR THE MILLER CLAIM AND THEN DEFENDS HIM THE REST OF THE GAME.

YES I KNOW I SAID HOURS AGO RODEN DIDN'T READ AS SCUM TO ME BUT THAT WAS BEFORE I NOTICED HE WAS SILENT FOR TWO DAYS.

What is even going on in this thread.

You guys noticed that weird Tric and Jack thing, right?

WHAT THING?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 05:04:46 pm
I don't think Roden's really been pushed at all Toony. I'm just annoyed at Jack Sheeping all day 1.
Jack, vote Toony.

Hah... Well, Jack is off his Rocker, following Vector. I'm likely to get hit by Toony as it is. So..

Role:Claim: I'm a reviving doctor. So long as the person I befriended Day 1 is alive, I will revive infinitely. On the flipside, my doctor results don't show up on my side or the one I target. Oh, and that revival of mine happens to be an Auto. Which Toony can wipe.

So, as long as I live, Tric lives?
...someone hand me a gun, please.  :P

As for voting, a vote for Toony is currently a Vote for a tie.  Whereas a vote for Jim is a vote to lynch.  I think I'll keep voting Jim for a while longer, unless someone else is interested in voting Toony.

I really need to look everyone over again before end of day. I suspect a Chinese Fire Drill is in our future.  >:(

@Roden: Are you buying what 4mask & Toonyman are selling?

That weird Tric/Jack thing.

Wait, no, if I phrase it like that it sounds like a fanfic.

That weird Tric and Jack thing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 05:13:03 pm
I FEEL LIKE THAT WOULDN'T BE ATYPICAL FOR EITHER OF THEM.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 05:26:34 pm
TOONYMAN, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON RODEN NOW THAT HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING FOR TWO DAYS?
I know you're hungry for lurkers like Vector and Roden, but Roden is town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 05:30:00 pm
Town
Roden
Jack
Tric
Jim
Vector

I don't know
Knightwing

Want to vote
Max
4mask
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 05:38:17 pm
Vote Count revamped again! Highest vote counts are on top! Wondering if top should be bolded, so for now it is.

Vote Count
------------------------
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
ToonyMan - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361953#msg8361953),
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),

4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
EuchreJack - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361690#msg8361690),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (2 hours and 23 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 06:13:37 pm
Why are 4mask and Toonyman both single-voting, as in, placing a single vote that won't lead to a lynch?
Because it wasn't near Day end. We're still two hours out so I'm not feeling especially rushed to try and consolidate, especially considering we have only 9 players so vote totals can switch around quickly.

Honestly Toonyman breaking from his fairly sensible progressions thus far to accuse me on false premises after I float the possibility of him being third party may be the most alignment indicative thing I've seen from him all game.

@4maskwolf: IF you are town, isn't it better to join me in voting Toonyman to get the lynch of one of your top suspects, even though I may be your other suspect?
From your POV, you would be helping eliminate scum, and its possible I might be bussing Toonyman.
You and Toonyman are partners in, like, zero worlds.

What is even going on in this thread.

You guys noticed that weird Tric and Jack thing, right?
Saw it, commented on it. Until one of the two flips I'm not going to think too hard about it though, preflipping people on D1 is a great way to bias yourself into tunneling onto someone, whether they're a wolf or not.

TOONYMAN, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON RODEN NOW THAT HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING FOR TWO DAYS?

I think 4mask is mafia, he's made big posts on players like Jack and Tric to throw dirt on them but I don't really feel like he cares whether they're town or not. He's also pushing for Roden over Jack and Jim even though Vector is correct that it makes more sense for Jack or Jim to be mafia.
What.

I'm literally voting Jack because I think Jack is mafia and you say I'm pushing Roden over him.

Fucking lol.

IS THERE SOMETHING TO TOONYMAN AND RODEN? OF ALL TOONYMAN'S INTERACTIONS I FIND THE ONES REGARDING RODEN AND VECTOR STRANGEST. HE DEFENDS HIS TOWN READS WHICH INCLUDES MORE THAN JUST RODEN AND VECTOR BUT THOSE TWO HAVE PLAYED WEAKER, LESS ACTIVE GAMES THAN HIS OTHER TOWN READS, SO HIS DEFENSE OF THEM SEEMS UNEARNED COMPARED TO HIS OTHER TOWN READS.

TOONYMAN ALSO STARTED THE GAME VOTING RODEN WITH A FAKE GUILTY INSPECT, RODEN TAKES HIM SERIOUSLY, AND THEN TOONYMAN BACKS OFF AND CLEARS HIM FOR THE MILLER CLAIM AND THEN DEFENDS HIM THE REST OF THE GAME.

YES I KNOW I SAID HOURS AGO RODEN DIDN'T READ AS SCUM TO ME BUT THAT WAS BEFORE I NOTICED HE WAS SILENT FOR TWO DAYS.

What is even going on in this thread.

You guys noticed that weird Tric and Jack thing, right?

WHAT THING?
I'll took a look at it tonight/tomorrow (game time), today's been pretty stressful in real life so I'm not feeling like going over their interactions with a fine-tooth comb right now. I will comment that Euchre and I had a very similar trajectory towards each other as Toonyman/Rodan except we eventually circled back around to suspecting each other again.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 06:24:53 pm
What, I fall asleep for like two hours and nobody changes their votes?
Fine Vector
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 06:26:28 pm
Justification: Have to choose between Jim & Vector, and I'm pretty sure this is Town!Jim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 06:29:58 pm
What is even going on in this thread.

You guys noticed that weird Tric and Jack thing, right?
Scum points to Max.  Of all the players, you at least should know that a weird Tric & Jack thing transcends all forum games. This particular game is no exception to that.
Trying to act like its just this game is scummy for the one person who should know better.
...or maybe you're just jealous.  :P
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 06:34:08 pm
TOONYMAN, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON RODEN NOW THAT HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING FOR TWO DAYS?
I know you're hungry for lurkers like Vector and Roden, but Roden is town.

Town
Roden
Jack
Tric
Jim
Vector

I don't know
Knightwing

Want to vote
Max
4mask

Gods we should be voting you.  Accusing Jim of going for lurkers in one breath then Town reading Jim in the next.
And where is that vote on Max coming from? A couple of semi-scummy things and suddenly you think you can lynch Max?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 06:38:52 pm
Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.

Before I start accusing you of being mafia for suggesting third parties, do you REALLY think Toony has been genuinely scumhunting?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 06:42:13 pm
Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.

Before I start accusing you of being mafia for suggesting third parties, do you REALLY think Toony has been genuinely scumhunting?
I think if he's not genuine he's doing a very good job of faking it, up until recently. His thought processes have been natural and easy to follow.

Also, for anyone who still thinks EuchreJack is town: remember that Euchre said this immediately after I originally made the statement previously mentioned:
Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.

I had the somewhat similar thought of "Is Toonyman Mafia-Ally?"
And then within a day they're trying to turn around and say "you brought up the possibility of third parties, you're mafia".
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 06:49:06 pm
What, I fall asleep for like two hours and nobody changes their votes?
Fine Vector
No, bad.

Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.
Before I start accusing you of being mafia for suggesting third parties, do you REALLY think Toony has been genuinely scumhunting?
I think if he's not genuine he's doing a very good job of faking it, up until recently. His thought processes have been natural and easy to follow.
Not factchecking anything has been a problem so far, which you and Jim mainly have been nitpicking. Which, okay, fair enough.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 06:50:42 pm
I'm not comfortable voting a miller claim player today. I don't want to do it.

Knightwing and Vector are easy targets and I don't think they're good hits.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 06:54:57 pm
I'm not comfortable voting a miller claim player today. I don't want to do it.

Knightwing and Vector are easy targets and I don't think they're good hits.

I agree that Jim and Vector are lousy votes.
4maskwolf

Sometimes retaliatory votes just feel good.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 06:56:45 pm
Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.

Before I start accusing you of being mafia for suggesting third parties, do you REALLY think Toony has been genuinely scumhunting?
I think if he's not genuine he's doing a very good job of faking it, up until recently. His thought processes have been natural and easy to follow.

Also, for anyone who still thinks EuchreJack is town: remember that Euchre said this immediately after I originally made the statement previously mentioned:
Random 4mask thought of the day: is Toonyman a third party? It would merge Toony's somewhat atypical play with their seemingly genuine scumhunting.

I had the somewhat similar thought of "Is Toonyman Mafia-Ally?"
And then within a day they're trying to turn around and say "you brought up the possibility of third parties, you're mafia".

Explain to me exactly how this "revelation" makes ME scum and YOU town?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 06:57:37 pm
I agree that Jim and Vector are lousy votes.
4maskwolf
I find it odd you believe in Jim. I find it odd you're voting with the person you were just shitting on. I find it odd you think Vector is a lousy vote when you were just voting them.

I find you odd, Jack.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 06:59:34 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 2 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362025#msg8362025),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),

EuchreJack - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361690#msg8361690),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (1 hours and 0 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 07:01:29 pm
I should note:

Ties in the vote are determined by the Mafia.

It is advised that you not have a tie, but I'm not your mother.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 07:01:32 pm
I think a lot of players townread Jack, do you think we're all misguided 4mask?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 07:02:53 pm
I'm not comfortable voting a miller claim player today. I don't want to do it.

Knightwing and Vector are easy targets and I don't think they're good hits.
How can you suspect Tric? You've played in enough games that you should recognize town!Tric.

I agree that Jim and Vector are lousy votes.
4maskwolf
I find it odd you believe in Jim. I find it odd you're voting with the person you were just shitting on. I find it odd you think Vector is a lousy vote when you were just voting them.

I find you odd, Jack.
Change your vote then.  Go ahead and change it. CHANGE IT IF YOU MEAN IT

As for me, I only voted Vector because I wanted to trigger a lynch. But I agree that isn't the best reason to vote someone.
I don't mind voting with suspicious players.
I find it very suspicious that you apparently DO NOT want me to join your vote.  What, you DO NOT want to vote someone?  Do you KNOW who is Green?

God I hate this town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 07:04:02 pm
I should note:

Ties in the vote are determined by the Mafia.

It is advised that you not have a tie, but I'm not your mother.
Adding Mod to hate list.
Waiting to see if this changes anything.  I've done my part to end the ties, so fuck it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 07:07:24 pm
I'm not comfortable voting a miller claim player today. I don't want to do it.

Knightwing and Vector are easy targets and I don't think they're good hits.
How can you suspect Tric? You've played in enough games that you should recognize town!Tric.
I...don't suspect Tric. I'm not voting them today either.

I find it very suspicious that you apparently DO NOT want me to join your vote.  What, you DO NOT want to vote someone?  Do you KNOW who is Green?
I just find it funny and outlandish.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 07:08:02 pm
Adding Mod to hate list.
:(
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 07:08:48 pm
I think a lot of players townread Jack, do you think we're all misguided 4mask?

I admit I'm lost on why everyone is townreading them, because all I'm hearing is "meta meta meta" and "I don't think wolf EuchreJack acts like that" which, y'know, it's D1, fair, but they're constantly ping-ponging between reads with no clear thought process. Like, legitimately, half their posts read like they're posted by a learning wolf who understands the basics of wolfing but hasn't quite gotten there on maintaining tone and continuity, and it's honestly frustrating that it feels so clear to me but nobody else seems to see what I'm seeing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 07:15:58 pm
I think a lot of players townread Jack, do you think we're all misguided 4mask?

I admit I'm lost on why everyone is townreading them, because all I'm hearing is "meta meta meta" and "I don't think wolf EuchreJack acts like that" which, y'know, it's D1, fair, but they're constantly ping-ponging between reads with no clear thought process. Like, legitimately, half their posts read like they're posted by a learning wolf who understands the basics of wolfing but hasn't quite gotten there on maintaining tone and continuity, and it's honestly frustrating that it feels so clear to me but nobody else seems to see what I'm seeing.

This is your second game with me, and I voted you in that first game.  Hence your confusion.  It's ok, I forgive you.
Unvote
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 07:16:10 pm
This is literally the opposite of coolheaded mafia!Jack that I saw in MVM3.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 07:19:36 pm
This is literally the opposite of coolheaded mafia!Jack that I saw in MVM3.
I believe you. But if I had a nickel for every time I got burned by someone citing meta I'd be a rich man.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 07:19:48 pm
What is even going on in this thread.

You guys noticed that weird Tric and Jack thing, right?
Scum points to Max.  Of all the players, you at least should know that a weird Tric & Jack thing transcends all forum games. This particular game is no exception to that.
Trying to act like its just this game is scummy for the one person who should know better.
...or maybe you're just jealous.  :P
I didn't say it was scummy. I just asked who noticed it.

Remember, when I say something, I just mean that thing, not anything else.

...so are you implying I should have written it with the slash?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 07:21:48 pm
NOT A FAN OF A 4MASKWOLF LYNCH HONESTLY.

PEOPLE I DON'T WANT TO LYNCH:
EUCHREJACK
TRICMAGIC
4MASKWOLF

PEOPLE I DON'T FEEL STRONGLY ENOUGH TO STOP FROM BEING LYNCHED:
MAXIMUM SPIN
RODEN
KNIGHTWING64
VECTOR
TOONYMAN

PEOPLE I ACTUALLY WANT TO LYNCH:



HONESTLY I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD BE CHOOSING BETWEEN VECTOR AND TOONYMAN. I'VE BEEN TEMPTED TO VOTE TOONYMAN, PARTIALLY TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS, BUT I'M STRUGGLING TO CONFIDENTLY SAY I THINK HE'S SCUM OR WHETHER ANY POTENTIAL LINK BETWEEN HIM AND RODEN IS LEGITIMATE OR NOT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 07:24:02 pm
This is literally the opposite of coolheaded mafia!Jack that I saw in MVM3.
I believe you. But if I had a nickel for every time I got burned by someone citing meta I'd be a rich man.
I guarantee you would have less than fifty bucks. I don't believe for a second that's happened more than a thousand times.

I guess I could vote ToonyMan.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 07:25:51 pm
Toonyman would be a lot more pissed off at this point if town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 07:27:31 pm
Sure, okay, let's bandwagon this thing, might as well. ToonyMan

As long as I get to lynch somebody.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 07:38:21 pm
Toonyman would be a lot more pissed off at this point if town.
Sure, okay, let's bandwagon this thing, might as well. ToonyMan

As long as I get to lynch somebody.

NOW THAT I'M FACED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF IT I REALIZE I DON'T WANT IT.

I'M GOING TO CHICKEN OUT.

YOU CAN CALL ME CHICKEN GROOVESTER. I'LL TAKE IT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 07:40:32 pm
Toonyman would be a lot more pissed off at this point if town.
Sure, okay, let's bandwagon this thing, might as well. ToonyMan

As long as I get to lynch somebody.

NOW THAT I'M FACED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF IT I REALIZE I DON'T WANT IT.

I'M GOING TO CHICKEN OUT.

YOU CAN CALL ME CHICKEN GROOVESTER. I'LL TAKE IT.

Ok, so you push two players to do your dirty work, but refuse to vote yourself?
What I would like is an explanation.
Why NOT Toonyman?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 07:41:32 pm
Toonyman would be a lot more pissed off at this point if town.
Sure, okay, let's bandwagon this thing, might as well. ToonyMan

As long as I get to lynch somebody.

NOW THAT I'M FACED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF IT I REALIZE I DON'T WANT IT.

I'M GOING TO CHICKEN OUT.

YOU CAN CALL ME CHICKEN GROOVESTER. I'LL TAKE IT.
I think Jim Chicken sounds better.

Look, I'll lynch Vector if you want, too, just commit.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 07:42:28 pm
Well sorry for not being pissed off.

Thanks Jim for believing in me.

I'm kind of watching anime right now but I'm leaving my vote on 4mask. I should be able to check the thread at least.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 07:43:14 pm
Toonyman would be a lot more pissed off at this point if town.
Sure, okay, let's bandwagon this thing, might as well. ToonyMan

As long as I get to lynch somebody.

NOW THAT I'M FACED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF IT I REALIZE I DON'T WANT IT.

I'M GOING TO CHICKEN OUT.

YOU CAN CALL ME CHICKEN GROOVESTER. I'LL TAKE IT.
(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/billyhatcher/images/1/19/Chicken_suit.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20180104082405) (https://youtu.be/GtZQNIVP-Bg)

Now that that meme is done.
Jim, does your Miller Auto have a negative/positive effect associated with it. If so, that makes 3 such things. And we have a eraser here too.


nin3
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 07:43:41 pm
Toonyman would be a lot more pissed off at this point if town.
Sure, okay, let's bandwagon this thing, might as well. ToonyMan

As long as I get to lynch somebody.

NOW THAT I'M FACED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF IT I REALIZE I DON'T WANT IT.

I'M GOING TO CHICKEN OUT.

YOU CAN CALL ME CHICKEN GROOVESTER. I'LL TAKE IT.
(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/billyhatcher/images/1/19/Chicken_suit.png) (https://youtu.be/GtZQNIVP-Bg)

Now that that meme is done.
Jim, does your Miller Auto have a negative/positive effect associated with it. If so, that makes 3 such things. And we have a eraser here too.


nin3
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2022, 07:44:48 pm
I'm also willing to vote Max but only if I have to.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 07:45:32 pm
Go on and click it for pain.
I'm against voting Vector. It's a lynch just to remove a double voter. I'd rather vote Jack than that. Or you for that matter. It doesn't give us much real info going into Night 1.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 07:46:07 pm
And no voting MAX, please. You trying to Chinese Fire Drill us Toonyman? Cause this is what it looks like.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 07:46:50 pm
Ok, so you push two players to do your dirty work, but refuse to vote yourself?
What I would like is an explanation.
Why NOT Toonyman?

LACK OF CONFIDENCE IN MY ANALYSIS ABOUT HIM.

Look, I'll lynch Vector if you want, too, just commit.

I'M OKAY WITH VECTOR.

Now that that meme is done.
Jim, does your Miller Auto have a negative/positive effect associated with it. If so, that makes 3 such things. And we have a eraser here too.


nin3

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TOONYMAN HAVING AN ABILITY THAT STEALS AUTOS.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 07:47:41 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
ToonyMan - 3 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362051#msg8362051), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362052#msg8362052),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
EuchreJack - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361690#msg8361690),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
Vector - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (0 hours and 12 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 07:47:52 pm
This is literally the opposite of coolheaded mafia!Jack that I saw in MVM3.
I believe you. But if I had a nickel for every time I got burned by someone citing meta I'd be a rich man.
I guarantee you would have less than fifty bucks. I don't believe for a second that's happened more than a thousand times.
I mean technically yes but you get my point.

Jim who do I vote? Nobody agrees with me so I'm going to sheep you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 07:48:04 pm
I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TOONYMAN HAVING AN ABILITY THAT STEALS AUTOS.

.... Interesting word choice there Jim. Want to tell us something?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 07:49:36 pm
...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 07:51:57 pm
I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TOONYMAN HAVING AN ABILITY THAT STEALS AUTOS.

.... Interesting word choice there Jim. Want to tell us something?
I don't care about it either.
In fact, I wish I had an ability that stole autos. "You wouldn't download a car..."
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 07:53:35 pm
.... Interesting word choice there Jim. Want to tell us something?
I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TOONYMAN HAVING AN ABILITY THAT STEALS AUTOS.

Jim who do I vote? Nobody agrees with me so I'm going to sheep you.

UHM UHM UHM UHM UHM UHM

UHM UHM UHM UHM UHM UHM

I'M COMFORTABLE SEEING VECTOR LYNCHED TODAY. I WISH I FELT MORE STRONGLY ABOUT IT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 24, 2022, 07:54:03 pm
@Roden: Are you buying what 4mask & Toonyman are selling?
I'm not but I don't think both are mafia. It would be funny if it was mafia vs 3P but I don't think it's particularly likely.

Btw to answer the previous question: the two players who are off-meta are Tric and Max. Tric hasn't been playing detective much, and Max is contributing a lot for Day 1, way more than usual, which he's only done one other time when he rolled scum. But with Tric's claim I think he's just town, which just leaves Max. However, Max softed something pro-town, so I'm mixed there.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 07:54:37 pm
Of note Jim. The chances of me dying tonight if Toony dies are 0. Or rather it doesn't matter what you hit me with, I just revive. So why did you say Toony Steals Autos, when it's lynching Roden that gives the hammerer their abilities.



Honestly a townie that could steal autos is interesting. Toony erases it, so why would he say that? Is it that miller doesn't actually mean anything to him?

nin
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 07:55:02 pm
Tric, if you're town you've really gotta stop publicly rolefishing and making inferences on people's abilities/rolename/etc.

If you're right, all you're doing is feeding the mafia more information, and if you're wrong you're not accomplishing anything.

.... Interesting word choice there Jim. Want to tell us something?
I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TOONYMAN HAVING AN ABILITY THAT STEALS AUTOS.

Jim who do I vote? Nobody agrees with me so I'm going to sheep you.

UHM UHM UHM UHM UHM UHM

UHM UHM UHM UHM UHM UHM

I'M COMFORTABLE SEEING VECTOR LYNCHED TODAY. I WISH I FELT MORE STRONGLY ABOUT IT.
Is there nobody you think has acted wolfily this game?



Roden showing up for the last ten minutes is pretty :wowee:, regardless of alignment.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 07:55:39 pm
Vector
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 07:56:23 pm
@Roden: Are you buying what 4mask & Toonyman are selling?
I'm not but I don't think both are mafia. It would be funny if it was mafia vs 3P but I don't think it's particularly likely.

Btw to answer the previous question: the two players who are off-meta are Tric and Max. Tric hasn't been playing detective much, and Max is contributing a lot for Day 1, way more than usual, which he's only done one other time when he rolled scum. But with Tric's claim I think he's just town, which just leaves Max. However, Max softed something pro-town, so I'm mixed there.

If you vote Max, I'll join you.  You're currently still voting Knightwing64, who is most likely just absent town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 07:56:53 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
ToonyMan - 3 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362051#msg8362051), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362052#msg8362052),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
Vector - 2 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (0 hours and 3 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 07:57:11 pm
I'm planning on pushing for a day 2 mass claim, followed by a day 3 lynch-hunt. So... Not really?

Jack if you vote Max I'm going after you. Step too far.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 07:57:38 pm
I'm planning on pushing for a day 2 mass claim, followed by a day 3 lynch-hunt. So... Not really?

Jack if you vote Max I'm going after you. Step too far.
Bay12 teaches bad habits...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 07:58:57 pm
I'm planning on pushing for a day 2 mass claim, followed by a day 3 lynch-hunt. So... Not really?

Jack if you vote Max I'm going after you. Step too far.
Haven't you said that already about other players?

I'm planning on pushing for a day 2 mass claim, followed by a day 3 lynch-hunt. So... Not really?

Jack if you vote Max I'm going after you. Step too far.
Bay12 teaches bad habits...
Yes. I'd have been better learning the game in a Nunnery.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 07:59:37 pm
Btw to answer the previous question: the two players who are off-meta are Tric and Max. Tric hasn't been playing detective much, and Max is contributing a lot for Day 1, way more than usual,
I am?
Quote
However, Max softed something pro-town, so I'm mixed there.
I did???

I legitimately don't remember doing that, could you remind me when? I thought I'd been keeping pretty close-vested this time.

Vector
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 24, 2022, 07:59:42 pm
I'm planning on pushing for a day 2 mass claim, followed by a day 3 lynch-hunt. So... Not really?

Jack if you vote Max I'm going after you. Step too far.
Haven't you said that already about other players?

I'm planning on pushing for a day 2 mass claim, followed by a day 3 lynch-hunt. So... Not really?

Jack if you vote Max I'm going after you. Step too far.
Bay12 teaches bad habits...
Yes. I'd have been better learning the game in a Nunnery.
LMAO!

I'm mostly fussing about the mechanics reliance Tric has, don't mind my fussing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 24, 2022, 08:00:08 pm
Max
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2022, 08:00:49 pm
Time is up. *facepalm*
Max anyway.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2022, 08:01:10 pm
:wowee:
What does that even mean?

Ah crap, seconds over the line. Hopefully web will forgive since it's... not on topic.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2022, 08:01:18 pm
YOU ASSHOLES.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 24, 2022, 08:01:56 pm
Day and always happens when I'm at work and I end up panicking, idk I made it on time
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 24, 2022, 08:02:47 pm
Day end always happens when I'm at work and I end up panicking, idk I made it on time
Edited

Idk why Jim got voted
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 24, 2022, 08:04:00 pm
Wait did Max stealth hammer Jim?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2022, 08:04:34 pm
NO POSTING AFTER END OF DAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 08:08:29 pm
Max
This vote will not be counted. It was posted after the cut-off time.

Time is up. *facepalm*
Max anyway.
This vote will not be counted. It was posted after the cut-off time.

Vote Count
------------------------
Vector - 3 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362088#msg8362088),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
ToonyMan - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362051#msg8362051),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (0 hours and 0 minutes remaining.)

Vector has been chosen for elimination.


The man on the balcony stomps the floor to end the conversation, throwing a piece of chalk each at Roden and TricMagic, who tried to shift the votes at the last second. Jim Groovester attempts to yell over them, and a third piece of chalk knocks him square in the head.

"YOU HAD PLENTY OF TIME BEFORE THIS TO TALK. This is now Vector's turn to make their peace before I reveal their crimes. Please, allow them your ears, your eyes, and your hearts, and do not interrupt. You must learn from this experience that which you can, and use it."

The room dulled to a whisper and then silence, as all eyes turned toward Vector.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 24, 2022, 08:30:29 pm
I'M COMFORTABLE SEEING VECTOR LYNCHED TODAY. I WISH I FELT MORE STRONGLY ABOUT IT.

I'M NOT COMFORTABLE SEEING VECTOR LYNCHED TODAY
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1 Execution: Vector's Crimes [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Vector on March 24, 2022, 08:31:57 pm
bah.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1 Execution: Vector's Crimes [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2022, 09:07:38 pm
Vector indignantly mocks Jim before several officers escorts them away.

"True, the Count of Voté has been responsible for a number of art disappearances, no doubt as one of the premier international thieves. Their collection is one of dreams. It is no doubt that there are numerous priceless pieces that could be found within their domain.

"It is also true that they are well connected, and will be free within the hour. And as such, your time has gone to waste. They may, indeed, be a criminal, but they are not the one responsible for this murder."

The group whispers among themselves, and then the man stands up and hands something to a nearby maid, who takes it and exits.

"I believe that the evidence is nearly done being analyzed, and I should be able to show it shortly. It would please me to no end if your conclusions were the same as mine. Please, continue with the festivities, and return to me within the hour, and we shall continue our discussion again."

The group departs, heading back into the party.


Vector has been executed.

Vector was a Vote Count (town).


It is now Night. Please send in your actions as soon as possible.


Quote
Role: Vote Count
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead and at least one Town member is alive.

{PN} (Auto) Vote Duke: Your vote counts for 2 votes as long as at least two other Town Players are alive.
{P10} (Night) Vote Knight [target]: Your target has one additional vote during the next Phase. If there are two or less Town Players alive, this additional vote is permanent instead.
{P10} (1-Shot, Night) Vote King: You become King until the end of the next Day. You are the only Player that votes. This power automatically activates if miselimination would end the game. This Action cannot be copied or stolen.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Night 1: Count of Voté [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 25, 2022, 09:48:48 am
Knightwing64 has requested a replacement.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Night 1: Count of Voté [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 25, 2022, 10:13:13 am
Knightwing64 has requested a replacement.
Could we just ask Vector if he want's to rejoin, or is that bad etiquette?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Night 1: Count of Voté [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 25, 2022, 11:21:16 am
Knightwing64 has requested a replacement.
Could we just ask Vector if he want's to rejoin, or is that bad etiquette?
Vector prefers you use they/them instead of he when referring to them. Also, they are quite busy, and it'd be bad etiquette. But, notquitethere will replace in for Knightwing64.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Night 1: Count of Voté [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 26, 2022, 01:36:56 am
As you arrive back, you notice that there is a bit of a mess that’s being cleaned up. Wine spilled everywhere, and TricMagic appears to be being cleaned up. It looks as though something quite upsetting might have happened, but it doesn't appear to be enough for TricMagic to leave just yet.

Instead, you notice a table has been setup for you. The man in the checkered hat stands before you, opening his arms and welcoming you into the room for a second time.

"I've gathered the murder weapon for you to observe. Well, that isn't entirely true. This is merely a replica. On it, you'll notice that the killer wore gloves, and I suppose many of you would be so clever as to check for blood stains on your companions. It will do you no good."

He sits down as the listeners look towards the knife. 4maskwolf proceeds to examine it closely while Maximum Spin stands by. The rest follow suit in their investigation.

"Please, consider this test one more time, and find the culprits among yourselves."


TricMagic has died.

TricMagic has come back to life!


Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 8 - 4maskwolf, EuchreJack, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64, Maximum Spin, Roden, ToonyMan, TricMagic,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~114 hours remaining).


It is now Day.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2022, 01:54:11 am
Well, at least Tric was telling the truth.
And is proven Town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 02:09:33 am
What did you do last night Max?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 02:13:34 am
Also why did they target Tric? Did they expect him to fake claim? I mean, he has before, but only to pretend his role was stronger than it actually was. It's a weird kill.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 26, 2022, 02:15:32 am
YEAH NOBODY ACTUALLY TARGETS TRICMAGIC HERE, SO GOOD JOB TO WHOEVER REDIRECTED THE KILL TO TRICMAGIC.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 03:53:16 am
What did you do last night Max?
I targeted someone other than TricMagic, and got the expected result.

I may have wasted my action, though. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 03:56:08 am
Who did you target?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 04:01:29 am
YEAH NOBODY ACTUALLY TARGETS TRICMAGIC HERE, SO GOOD JOB TO WHOEVER REDIRECTED THE KILL TO TRICMAGIC.
If someone redirected the kill, then they essentially have a guilty result and should tell us who they targeted.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 04:02:09 am
Who did you target?
I don't quite see how that's any of your business.

Here, I'll fullclaim if you do, but let's both save it for later in the day.

If nobody claims to have moved the kill, we should reflect on which players one might expect not to know that TricMagic would have been gloating truthfully. I think I have a clear answer in mind.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 04:04:56 am
Well, at least Tric was telling the truth.
And is proven Town.
I have to say, while I don't expect TM would have done this and I thought he was town already anyway, I will never not be paranoid after the time when, in another place, one of our strongest players, as mafia, self-targeted the first round gambling that a doctor would protect him, and succeeded in being "proven town".
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 04:06:46 am
Who did you target?
I don't quite see how that's any of your business.

Here, I'll fullclaim if you do, but let's both save it for later in the day.

If nobody claims to have moved the kill, we should reflect on which players one might expect not to know that TricMagic would have been gloating truthfully. I think I have a clear answer in mind.
I want to know if you'll lie. I don't really need a full claim, so we can save that for later.

I'm assuming you're referencing 4mask? He didn't seem to know how to read a few people yesterday.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 04:21:59 am
Sometimes I do this thing where I refer obliquely to deducible information because I want to make sure at least a few people will notice it, while leaving open the possibility that the mafia might miss or misunderstand it and fail to take it into account.

Jim, be honest with me, I shouldn't even bother, right? Just like last time, someone always misses the memo and tries to give the answer.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 26, 2022, 04:33:54 am
Jim did you get my present?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 26, 2022, 04:39:26 am
Also I somehow didn't get my autos wiped by Toonyman last night despite being at the top of his shitlist so :sparkleshrug:
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 05:33:55 am
Max instead of complaining that I put 2+2 together, maybe you could answer the question?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 11:21:56 am
Max perfectly timed that vote shift yesterday.
I want to know who Toony targeted last night though.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 26, 2022, 12:30:37 pm
Hey gang. I'm NQT and I have replaced Knightwing. Just catching up with things.

I tracked Roden last night and he is apparently untrackable. Euchrejack also claimed to be untrackable but Roden only claimed Miller. Maybe we really do have three untrackable millers... but it would be simpler to believe that there's a mafia member among the claimants.

Trying to make sense of the EOD. This spread never finds scum:

Vote Count
------------------------
Vector - 3 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362088#msg8362088),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
ToonyMan - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362051#msg8362051),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

So what do we see? Town!Vector was lynched with a minority vote while the rest of the votes were smattered about.  How did it get here? This is what it was like a day before:

Vote count program has been updated to account for WHEN a player was voted! Votes are now ordered chronologically (Non-voters are still sorted alphabetically.)!

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Maximum Spin - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361437#msg8361437),
Roden - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361282#msg8361282), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361444#msg8361444),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~28 hours remaining).


What jumps out? Roden parked a vote that was going nowhere for the whole end 28 hours+ of the day. Roden, why were you content to sit on a vote that was doing nothing? Toonyman, where you just pleased you narrowly avoided being launched or...?



I'm probably missing a bunch of stuff, despite something of a read back. These BYOR games are always hypercomplex. What do people think are the standout points so far?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 12:49:38 pm
YEAH NOBODY ACTUALLY TARGETS TRICMAGIC HERE, SO GOOD JOB TO WHOEVER REDIRECTED THE KILL TO TRICMAGIC.
That would be me.

I am also a bus driver. I can do two night actions and I'm not explaining how.

Last night I wiped Jim's auto and bus drived 4mask and Tric, expecting mafia to try to kill 4mask.

It appears they followed my expectations and killed the immortal Tric instead.

Therefore, Tric and 4mask are guaranteed town as that was certainly the mafia kill unless someone wants to claim it?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 12:57:56 pm
I don't have redirection so I don't know who actually tried to kill 4mask, sadly.

I'm disappointed in the Vector lynch. I auto wiped Jim as they were Vector's top suspect.

I'm confident Roden is town and I find NQT's first post very suspicious.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 12:59:24 pm
I tracked Roden last night and he is apparently untrackable. Euchrejack also claimed to be untrackable but Roden only claimed Miller. Maybe we really do have three untrackable millers... but it would be simpler to believe that there's a mafia member among the claimants.
That is very odd if you're telling the truth. What's going on Roden?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 01:03:51 pm
... If ToonyMan is town, I don't really think Jack is.

Alternatively, NQT does have a lead on Roden being mafia with MaxSpin.

Who did you target?
I don't quite see how that's any of your business.

Here, I'll fullclaim if you do, but let's both save it for later in the day.

If nobody claims to have moved the kill, we should reflect on which players one might expect not to know that TricMagic would have been gloating truthfully. I think I have a clear answer in mind.
Who? What's the answer, and who did you target last night?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 01:07:54 pm
I suppose Tric is not guaranteed town, only 4mask. As Tric could have technically got hit by friendly fire or himself, but I really really doubt that. I just wanted to clarify that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 01:09:59 pm
@Tric:
I'll be shocked if Jack is mafia.

I think if we can trust NQT then Roden and Max being suspects seems reasonable.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 26, 2022, 01:17:06 pm
YEAH NOBODY ACTUALLY TARGETS TRICMAGIC HERE, SO GOOD JOB TO WHOEVER REDIRECTED THE KILL TO TRICMAGIC.
That would be me.

I am also a bus driver. I can do two night actions and I'm not explaining how.

Last night I wiped Jim's auto and bus drived 4mask and Tric, expecting mafia to try to kill 4mask.
This superficially makes sense but flies completely in the face of where you seemed to be at during EoD yesterday. I was your top chop and Jim was a top townpick.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 01:20:34 pm
I just have amazing game sense. After Tric claimed immortality I thought hard about who mafia would try to kill so I can pseudo doctor protect.

I felt very confident they wouldn't try to kill a miller claim as all three of those players are good lynch targets.

They don't kill Tric. They don't kill Knightwing.

That leaves me, 4mask, and Max. So I basically had a 50/50 shot and chose to believe 4mask over Max.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 01:25:30 pm
4mask and Max were my top suspects, true, but also the best kill targets besides myself. Which mafia are probably kicking themselves they didn't do as I am all powerful.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 26, 2022, 01:33:30 pm
4mask and Max were my top suspects, true, but also the best kill targets besides myself. Which mafia are probably kicking themselves they didn't do as I am all powerful.
"I am a god. How can you kill a god?"
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 01:34:35 pm
I also still believe Jim is town, and I doubt he minds losing his miller status.

Jim hesitated in voting me yesterday when a crazy lynch mob was trying to kill me at EoD1. He doesn't really have a reason to do that as mafia. He could just not post anything or sit on a lazy vote.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 01:37:48 pm
I guess Jim was voting Vector, but he did express discontent about it which is kind of NAI.

Vector was voting Jim so I suppose that's a reason he'd vote Vector in the first place, he was one of the early voters.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 02:06:35 pm
YEAH NOBODY ACTUALLY TARGETS TRICMAGIC HERE, SO GOOD JOB TO WHOEVER REDIRECTED THE KILL TO TRICMAGIC.
That would be me.

I am also a bus driver. I can do two night actions and I'm not explaining how.

Last night I wiped Jim's auto and bus drived 4mask and Tric, expecting mafia to try to kill 4mask.

It appears they followed my expectations and killed the immortal Tric instead.

Therefore, Tric and 4mask are guaranteed town as that was certainly the mafia kill unless someone wants to claim it?
The frustrating thing about this is that ToonyMan is probably town.
What does that even leave me with? I guess a no lynch is a viable option.

I want to stipulate that I think I made the correct, pro-town move yesterday.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 02:36:57 pm
What action did you do last night though? If we don't know, it does make you look rather suspicious.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 02:49:56 pm
The frustrating thing about this is that ToonyMan is probably town.
How is that frustrating?

What does that even leave me with? I guess a no lynch is a viable option.
Haha, no.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 02:52:47 pm
The frustrating thing about this is that ToonyMan is probably town.
How is that frustrating?
Because most of what you're saying doesn't make sense and I want it to be a scumtell.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 03:02:51 pm
MaxSpin, you know this looks really bad for you?
Who did you target?
I don't quite see how that's any of your business.

Here, I'll fullclaim if you do, but let's both save it for later in the day.

If nobody claims to have moved the kill, we should reflect on which players one might expect not to know that TricMagic would have been gloating truthfully. I think I have a clear answer in mind.
The frustrating thing about this is that ToonyMan is probably town.
How is that frustrating?

What does that even leave me with? I guess a no lynch is a viable option.
Haha, no.
Answer some questions already. Getting to the bottom of this is important. Saying you got an idea on the who, then voting no lynch?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 03:17:50 pm
Saying you got an idea on the who, then voting no lynch?
...I said I had a clear idea who to suspect if nobody claims to have done what ToonyMan claimed to do. So, after ToonyMan claimed to do it, that idea doesn't matter as much, unless I assume ToonyMan is a godfather and made up the bus thing, which I guess is possible, but why would a mafia ToonyMan have agreed to target you?

I don't care what looks bad to you, you know that, right? I'm not answering your questions when I already told someone ELSE that the same questions should be saved for later. I don't owe you anything.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 03:21:01 pm
Don't worry Max, I'm voting Roden or NQT today because one of them is mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 03:26:41 pm
Hey gang. I'm NQT and I have replaced Knightwing. Just catching up with things.

I tracked Roden last night and he is apparently untrackable. Euchrejack also claimed to be untrackable but Roden only claimed Miller. Maybe we really do have three untrackable millers... but it would be simpler to believe that there's a mafia member among the claimants.

Trying to make sense of the EOD. This spread never finds scum:

Vote Count
------------------------
Vector - 3 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362088#msg8362088),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
ToonyMan - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362051#msg8362051),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

So what do we see? Town!Vector was lynched with a minority vote while the rest of the votes were smattered about.  How did it get here? This is what it was like a day before:

Vote count program has been updated to account for WHEN a player was voted! Votes are now ordered chronologically (Non-voters are still sorted alphabetically.)!

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Maximum Spin - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361437#msg8361437),
Roden - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360953#msg8360953), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361282#msg8361282), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361444#msg8361444),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~28 hours remaining).


What jumps out? Roden parked a vote that was going nowhere for the whole end 28 hours+ of the day. Roden, why were you content to sit on a vote that was doing nothing? Toonyman, where you just pleased you narrowly avoided being launched or...?



I'm probably missing a bunch of stuff, despite something of a read back. These BYOR games are always hypercomplex. What do people think are the standout points so far?
Why would you claim that when I'm trying to get results out of Max...

I'm a Commuter, I didn't claim that yesterday for obvious reasons. Though in addition to the obvious, I was paranoid that if Toony was scum that there was a good chance I'd die, so I wanted to catch him off guard. I also wanted to see in general who'd claim to have targeted me and see if their results didn't add up.

Though I guess, technically I'm not exactly a Commuter. I don't leave the game for the night, I'm basically just invulnerable unless I put my guard down. I have a 1-shot ability, but I'm saving it until we have less people.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 03:28:04 pm
Saying you got an idea on the who, then voting no lynch?
...I said I had a clear idea who to suspect if nobody claims to have done what ToonyMan claimed to do. So, after ToonyMan claimed to do it, that idea doesn't matter as much, unless I assume ToonyMan is a godfather and made up the bus thing, which I guess is possible, but why would a mafia ToonyMan have agreed to target you?

I don't care what looks bad to you, you know that, right? I'm not answering your questions when I already told someone ELSE that the same questions should be saved for later. I don't owe you anything.
Tch. Was hoping to catch you more firmly, given we have no idea who you targeted. Town doesn't have a reason to save their result till later unless it's actually important, so you had better have a hell of an ace.
Mafia on the other hand has EVERY reason not to claim, because they know what happened last night.

So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 03:29:19 pm
Soooo.. MAx. Good buddy, pal, compadre. Why did you vote Vector last second?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 03:29:37 pm
We're not no lynching tonight. If we have a Vig, they'll put us back on odds.

Max, claim who you targeted or die.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 03:30:42 pm
I should point out I'm able to use two actions at night so it wouldn't surprise me if mafia could as well.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 03:32:24 pm
So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.
What

Okay, so I have no idea who mafia tried to kill anymore and 4mask isn't confirmed town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 03:33:45 pm
On the plus side, Tric is 99% town or absolutely insane.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 03:35:35 pm
Don't worry Max, I'm voting Roden or NQT today because one of them is mafia.
Well, those are my top picks; I just figured people usually wouldn't vote out a sub-in right away.

So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU CLAIM THIS (the part about losing your auto specifically). I don't even know why you'd do it n1, but then actually claiming it is so much worse. You were the closest thing available to confirmed town, and everyone would have assumed you couldn't be killed after it was visibly demonstrated.

Oh right, because you said:
Town doesn't have a reason to save their result till later
and apparently you really believe that's true.

Soooo.. MAx. Good buddy, pal, compadre. Why did you vote Vector last second?
Sure, I'll answer this one: because I told Jim I would.

TricMagic: Did you temporarily die because of that action specifically?

On the plus side, Tric is 99% town or absolutely insane.
"or"
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 03:40:24 pm
So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.
What

Okay, so I have no idea who mafia tried to kill anymore and 4mask isn't confirmed town.
Pretty much. I was more worring about town going with false information, we already know 4mask likely targeted Jim.
Jim did you get my present?

Meanwhile, the post right before.
Sometimes I do this thing where I refer obliquely to deducible information because I want to make sure at least a few people will notice it, while leaving open the possibility that the mafia might miss or misunderstand it and fail to take it into account.

Jim, be honest with me, I shouldn't even bother, right? Just like last time, someone always misses the memo and tries to give the answer.

.... Bit odd, but eh. We know 4mask didn't do the kill if Jim speaks up about the present. Jim was also dead-on about no-one trying to kill me last night.

NQT tracked Roden last night apparently. And Roden would need to be Mafia with NQT for that to have worked, or they didn't make a kill at all.

You claimed Bus+Eraser. ... Need more thought into this, but at least town is now working with plenty of info, and I'm still able to doctor.

Of note, I Befreinded Jack Day 1. Given him being immune to my doctoring, figured it would be better to spend the 1-shot when Max made his play end of day.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 03:44:16 pm
We're not no lynching tonight. If we have a Vig, they'll put us back on odds.

Max, claim who you targeted or die.
I didn't see this. Are you softclaiming vig? Because that won't make me answer you, it'll just make me really disappointed in you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 03:45:55 pm
@Tric:
I don't mind you using your sacrifice to stop anyone from dying last night (even if it makes me look way less cool), but you're revealing critical points about your role FOR NO REASON.

We know 4mask didn't do the kill if Jim speaks up about the present.
This isn't true. I am confirming that doing two actions at night is possible.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 03:47:00 pm
Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 03:48:43 pm
So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU CLAIM THIS (the part about losing your auto specifically). I don't even know why you'd do it n1, but then actually claiming it is so much worse. You were the closest thing available to confirmed town, and everyone would have assumed you couldn't be killed after it was visibly demonstrated.

Oh right, because you said:
Town doesn't have a reason to save their result till later
and apparently you really believe that's true.

Soooo.. MAx. Good buddy, pal, compadre. Why did you vote Vector last second?
Sure, I'll answer this one: because I told Jim I would.

TricMagic: Did you temporarily die because of that action specifically?

Having Town working off faulty info is far far worse. Having Toony redirect a kill into the doctor is far far worse. Being confirmed town when there is clearly a break in logic is far far far far worse on later days. Cause by that point the damage is already done.

As is, now toony A: Knows I'm no longer immune to death, and B: can bus me around. This is just icing though, I wanted claims to be made so this reveal could pick apart the real inconsistency. And as you having claimed despite repeated proddings? Not even a target last night, not a peep.

Last..
Quote
everyone would have assumed you couldn't be killed after it was visibly demonstrated.
This is untrue. All townies would know I couldn't be killed. Or third parties if they exist. Mafia knows something is up unless they targeted 4mask. Giving them the information advantage AND a town befuddled with a false night report.


Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.
I mean, you could claim? Unvote for now.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 03:51:01 pm
Tric, just to make sure I understand your role, you're claiming that if Jack dies, you'll also die? And that he's the only one you can't protect with your Doc ability? If so, why did you tell everyone this...?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 03:51:58 pm
We're not no lynching tonight. If we have a Vig, they'll put us back on odds.

Max, claim who you targeted or die.
I didn't see this. Are you softclaiming vig? Because that won't make me answer you, it'll just make me really disappointed in you.
Ok then, if you want to game throw that isn't on me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 03:53:27 pm
Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.
Funny enough I believe I can in fact guess your role and target last night.

So yeah, we're not voting Max today.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 03:55:35 pm
@Tric:
I don't mind you using your sacrifice to stop anyone from dying last night (even if it makes me look way less cool), but you're revealing critical points about your role FOR NO REASON.

I'm honestly more worried about being believed than holding info. And my doctor ability is still perfectly active.
I could false-claim that I lost my doctor ability but remained unkillable, but... That sounds like a stretch to me, given I would have just made myself a normal townie that happens to revive. And me befriending Jack doesn't matter anymore does it? Unless I'm lying, but eh. Though in that case I'd lie about who I befriended. WIFOM.

End of the day I'm far more concerned in making sure town has all the info to catch the Lying party.



Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.
Funny enough I believe I can in fact guess your role and target last night.

So yeah, we're not voting Max today.
You're not exactly off the hook either Toony. Claiming a double ability could very well just be a mafia cover to hide the fact mafia got blocked. A gutsy one, but not completely unexpected.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 03:56:42 pm
Tric, just to make sure I understand your role, you're claiming that if Jack dies, you'll also die? And that he's the only one you can't protect with your Doc ability? If so, why did you tell everyone this...?
If Jack dies, I would lose my revivial. As I lost my auto already, that's no longer an issue. I wouldn't actually die after he did, just become mortal.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 03:58:03 pm
Yeah Tric is correct, claiming he befriended Jack doesn't matter now since he removed his auto himself with the sacrifice thing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 04:00:05 pm
Tric, just to make sure I understand your role, you're claiming that if Jack dies, you'll also die? And that he's the only one you can't protect with your Doc ability? If so, why did you tell everyone this...?
If Jack dies, I would lose my revivial. As I lost my auto already, that's no longer an issue. I wouldn't actually die after he did, just become mortal.
Oh, ok that's a lot less devastating then.

Also @Toony: I can't die but I'm also immune to all actions. So in case you were wondering, no, bus swapping me with the suspected kill target won't work.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 04:03:33 pm
Also @Toony: I can't die but I'm also immune to all actions. So in case you were wondering, no, bus swapping me with the suspected kill target won't work.
I will most likely swap Tric with another player and hope Tric can guess the mafia kill himself, but I make no hard-claims what I'll be doing tonight.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 04:06:18 pm
The problem with me swapping Tric with someone is that if I do that and mafia just try to kill Tric then the other player will die and doctor's can't typically self-protect so it's a guaranteed kill, not very bueno.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 04:09:26 pm
We'll basically playing Russian Roulette. Only targets of real opportunity is the miller trio. And Mafia would want that confusion.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 26, 2022, 04:12:56 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 2 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362389#msg8362389), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362508#msg8362508),
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362498#msg8362498),

Not Voting - 5 - 4maskwolf, EuchreJack, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64, ToonyMan,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~99 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 04:22:58 pm
The problem with me swapping Tric with someone is that if I do that and mafia just try to kill Tric then the other player will die and doctor's can't typically self-protect so it's a guaranteed kill, not very bueno.
Try to swap Tric with mafia.

Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.
Funny enough I believe I can in fact guess your role and target last night.

So yeah, we're not voting Max today.
Okay. I knew I could count on you to pick it up.
I also have the ability to do the other thing that's like the part you should have guessed but with another word in front. There are a couple more wrinkles but nothing worth describing yet.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 04:25:45 pm
Anyone else get the feeling the team is Toony/Max?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 04:31:56 pm
The problem with me swapping Tric with someone is that if I do that and mafia just try to kill Tric then the other player will die and doctor's can't typically self-protect so it's a guaranteed kill, not very bueno.
Try to swap Tric with mafia.
You're right, that gives mafia a huge risk if they try to kill Tric.

Anyone else get the feeling the team is Toony/Max?
Tric, use your brain for a second. Think about the setup. Think about what players have claimed. Think about what players have not claimed.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 05:47:06 pm
------------------------
Maximum Spin - Unknown, Toony knows? Claims targeted someone other than TricMagic, no clue who, what, or why.[While first to claim, that means nothing when all they said was not targeting me.]
{Quote=Here, I'll fullclaim if you do, but let's both save it for later in the day.} Hasn't done so.
{Quote=I have to say, while I don't expect TM would have done this and I thought he was town already anyway, I will never not be paranoid after the time when, in another place, one of our strongest players, as mafia, self-targeted the first round gambling that a doctor would protect him, and succeeded in being "proven town".} Probable set-up against claims that would counteract his own?
TricMagic - Friendship!(Doctor, claims Revival and 1-shot which stripped their auto)
4maskwolf - PRESENT! (Asks Jim if they got it after Max says something weird asking Jim something..)
EuchreJack - Claimed yesterday, aesthetic-ish miller. No night action reported. ?Message thing? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361051#msg8361051) Want to clarify Jack?
Jim Groovester - Miller claim day 1(in repsponse to 4mask joke redpeak?) No night claim.
Knightwing64 - NQT- Claims tracking Roden. Roden can't be tracked.
Roden - Immune to actions activated ability.(Commuter-ish) Supposedly a miller with two negative abilities. Last to claim. However, claimed right before my reveal. Would need to be Max/Roden with the start of the day being some quick theater to deal.
ToonyMan - Bus driver, (Auto) auto-wiper off his normal action, and all around toon. Day 1 was still off, and saying to think about who hasn't claimed is simply to throw me off. (Wiped Jim Night 1 while bussing Roden/TricMagic)
Vector - Vote Count: Jim Groovester, 4maskwolf, Maximum Spin
------------------------

 Of notes and ponies,
Roden immediately pushed Max day start.
Jim and Jack are the two without claimed actions. Toony as town would be pushing Jack much harder if he was trying to hint things, as is being mysterious is only a short step from obscuration.
Roden, if Lynched, would normally pass on their abilities to the hammerer. Based on observations, the chances of Roden being Mafia are slim.
... Jim's testimony is kind of important to this case. If you would come to the stand? (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1151)
Prior to Roden/my reveal, Toony planned to vote NQT and Roden. I'd like to hear their reasoning. (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1980)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 05:48:56 pm
Also for you Jack. (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1770) Probably should have added this to the end of notes before posting. Would you also step up to clarify the message linked in my claimant notes?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 05:52:11 pm
Quick correction, Toony claimed to bus 4mask, not me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 05:59:30 pm
Quick correction, Toony claimed to bus 4mask, not me.
Thanks. Course I missed a Typo.[=quote=TricMagic edited]
------------------------
Maximum Spin - Unknown, Toony knows? Claims targeted someone other than TricMagic, no clue who, what, or why.[While first to claim, that means nothing when all they said was not targeting me.]
{Quote=Here, I'll fullclaim if you do, but let's both save it for later in the day.} Hasn't done so.
{Quote=I have to say, while I don't expect TM would have done this and I thought he was town already anyway, I will never not be paranoid after the time when, in another place, one of our strongest players, as mafia, self-targeted the first round gambling that a doctor would protect him, and succeeded in being "proven town".} Probable set-up against claims that would counteract his own?
TricMagic - Friendship!(Doctor, claims Revival and 1-shot which stripped their auto)
4maskwolf - PRESENT! (Asks Jim if they got it after Max says something weird asking Jim something..)
EuchreJack - Claimed yesterday, aesthetic-ish miller. No night action reported. ?Message thing? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361051#msg8361051) Want to clarify Jack?
Jim Groovester - Miller claim day 1(in repsponse to 4mask joke redpeak?) No night claim.
Knightwing64 - NQT- Claims tracking Roden. Roden can't be tracked.
Roden - Immune to actions activated ability.(Commuter-ish) Supposedly a miller with two negative abilities. Last to claim. However, claimed right before my reveal. Would need to be Max/Roden with the start of the day being some quick theater to deal.
ToonyMan - Bus driver, (Auto) auto-wiper off his normal action, and all around toon. Day 1 was still off, and saying to think about who hasn't claimed is simply to throw me off. (Wiped Jim Night 1 while bussing 4mask/TricMagic)
Vector - Vote Count: Jim Groovester, 4maskwolf, Maximum Spin
------------------------

 Of notes and ponies,
Roden immediately pushed Max day start.
Jim and Jack are the two without claimed actions. Toony as town would be pushing Jack much harder if he was trying to hint things, as is being mysterious is only a short step from obscuration.
Roden, if Lynched, would normally pass on their abilities to the hammerer. Based on observations, the chances of Roden being Mafia are slim.
... Jim's testimony is kind of important to this case. If you would come to the stand? (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1151)
Prior to Roden/my reveal, Toony planned to vote NQT and Roden. I'd like to hear their reasoning. (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1980)
Also for you Jack. (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1770) Probably should have added this to the end of notes before posting. Would you also step up to clarify the message linked in my claimant notes?
[/quote]
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 06:00:23 pm
I don't think we just GG this by just suspecting people who haven't claimed. If all the current claims are town, then town has an obscene amount of power, while also implying that mafia don't have safe claims.

I suspect Max for voting Vector to save Toony at the literal last minute after Jack offered to vote Max with me. Refusing to name his target is also heavily suspicious, since I'm not asking him to claim his role and his target choice shouldn't hint at his role either.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 06:03:15 pm
*looks up*

Well, close enough. Either way we need Jim's testimony. I'd be fine with the other two while we wait.

Also don't think I didn't notice that deflection MaxSpin. Jim may have asked you to vote, but doing so right at the last second is way too much.

Toony asked me to think about who hasn't claimed. But that really only points fingers at Jim and Jack, our two millers. (3 counting you.) Figuring out what happened last night can lead to tripping mafia up tomorrow, if not today.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 06:13:35 pm
Prior to Roden/my reveal, Toony planned to vote NQT and Roden. I'd like to hear their reasoning. (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1980)
Not both, only one. The other should be town. This was also before I learned 4mask isn't confirmed town.

Toony asked me to think about who hasn't claimed. But that really only points fingers at Jim and Jack, our two millers. (3 counting you.) Figuring out what happened last night can lead to tripping mafia up tomorrow, if not today.
No, no Tric. Not who hasn't claimed. What hasn't been claimed?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 26, 2022, 06:18:15 pm
Prior to Roden/my reveal, Toony planned to vote NQT and Roden. I'd like to hear their reasoning. (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1980)
Not both, only one. The other should be town. This was also before I learned 4mask isn't confirmed town.

Toony asked me to think about who hasn't claimed. But that really only points fingers at Jim and Jack, our two millers. (3 counting you.) Figuring out what happened last night can lead to tripping mafia up tomorrow, if not today.
No, no Tric. Not who hasn't claimed. What hasn't been claimed?
...That doesn't actually help. But fine, I'll bite. Mind taking me through your thoughts on why NQT/Roden as your likely mafia?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 26, 2022, 06:30:28 pm
Also don't think I didn't notice that deflection MaxSpin. Jim may have asked you to vote, but doing so right at the last second is way too much.
That's when I was there. If I had been there sooner after the other guys changed, I would have voted sooner. I only noticed I was right under the wire afterward.

I suspect Max for voting Vector to save Toony at the literal last minute
I didn't vote to save Toony. I voted to lynch Vector, which I had already started doing before, remember? I tried to get people to vote Vector before I ever voted ToonyMan.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2022, 09:48:06 pm
We're not no lynching tonight. If we have a Vig, they'll put us back on odds.

Max, claim who you targeted or die.

Max already did so.  Go back and read.

Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.

You're good.

Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.
Funny enough I believe I can in fact guess your role and target last night.

So yeah, we're not voting Max today.

+1

Anyone else get the feeling the team is Toony/Max?

At least Tric is reading.  At this point, the only way that either Toony or Max is scum is if they are on the same scum team.

As for me, I'm trying something new.  I am not claiming as the information that I possess is already known.  I could probably bolster some existing information, but until that is needed, why not keep mafia in the dark about what I can do?

I will say that I have two abilities, which seems par for the course based upon what everyone else has said.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2022, 09:52:38 pm
Tric, just to make sure I understand your role, you're claiming that if Jack dies, you'll also die? And that he's the only one you can't protect with your Doc ability? If so, why did you tell everyone this...?
Roden, no role fishing disguised as criticism.  This was quite effective in getting Tric to clarify some things that would have better off confused.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2022, 10:01:23 pm
Also for you Jack. (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY?t=1770) Probably should have added this to the end of notes before posting. Would you also step up to clarify the message linked in my claimant notes?

To clarify, I am NOT a Death Miller.
I am just a Regular Miller.
But I am also a Ninja/Unblockable, which can be tested.

Also: WTF Web? You promised us Low Power Roles! Yet if mine is anything to go by, I'd say Superpower'd with Weaknesses would be more accurate.

I will say this though: two specific players feel a little off. It's a meta read, and the game still barely just started, so I won't say who they are yet since I don't want to tip them off. If it persists, I'll say who they are before the day ends.
Good call. Although tragedy has struck the House of EJ, so I at least have a marginal excuse.

Hm, not sure what Tric is getting at.

@Roden: Are you buying what 4mask & Toonyman are selling?
I'm not but I don't think both are mafia. It would be funny if it was mafia vs 3P but I don't think it's particularly likely.

Btw to answer the previous question: the two players who are off-meta are Tric and Max. Tric hasn't been playing detective much, and Max is contributing a lot for Day 1, way more than usual, which he's only done one other time when he rolled scum. But with Tric's claim I think he's just town, which just leaves Max. However, Max softed something pro-town, so I'm mixed there.

That was Roden's answer to the question.  I think Roden waited too long to answer his "off meta" remark, and failed to give anything except End of Day suspicion on Max, that almost succeeded in surprise lynching Max.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 26, 2022, 10:04:59 pm
I WANT TO CLAIM MY NIGHT 1 RESULTS SINCE I EXPECT THEY SHOULD BE VERY INTERESTING BUT I AM CHECKING IN WITH WEBADICT ABOUT SOMETHING FIRST.

IN THE MEANTIME,

Jim did you get my present?

I DID RECEIVE SOMETHING, YES.

Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.

I THINK I ALMOST UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE IMPLYING.

So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.

DOES USING THIS ABILITY ALSO KILL YOU?

Anyone else get the feeling the team is Toony/Max?

NAH.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2022, 10:18:31 pm
Reads List Day 2 Early:
TricMagic: Uh nope, Tric is town.
ToonyMan: Is only scum if Max is scum.  Metawise, is frantically trying to solve, which fits more into their town persona
Maximum Spin: Is only scum if Toonyman is scum? If you are paying attention, following their meta under similar situations
4maskwolf: Towards end of Day 1, I was getting the "Dumb in a way that only Town could be dumb" vibe.  While they were wrong to suspect me, they stuck to it despite more viable options for lynching.  NOT MECHANICALLY CLEARED, due to Tric's reveal. Also confirmed "gave something" to Jim, so would need multi to have done the kill

Jim Groovester: Null. Metawise, I would say that Chicken Groovester is Town Groovester, but that is basically the only reason I'm leaning town. New post changes nothing. Sorry Jim  :'(

Knightwing64/NQT: One post that said nothing by NQT, needs to prove not scum.
Roden: Hey, let us trick Tric into revealing! Also last minute push on Max due to admitted admission by Max of "softed something Pro-Town", with attempts in Day 2 to get Max to confirm this "softed something Pro-Town".  I KNOW Roden KNOWS what I'm talking about.

Knightwing64/NQT: Note, Knightwing posted elsewhere to going into the hospital, so don't use the replacement request against NQT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2022, 10:20:32 pm
So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU CLAIM THIS (the part about losing your auto specifically). I don't even know why you'd do it n1, but then actually claiming it is so much worse. You were the closest thing available to confirmed town, and everyone would have assumed you couldn't be killed after it was visibly demonstrated.

Oh right, because you said:
Town doesn't have a reason to save their result till later
and apparently you really believe that's true.

Soooo.. MAx. Good buddy, pal, compadre. Why did you vote Vector last second?
Sure, I'll answer this one: because I told Jim I would.

TricMagic: Did you temporarily die because of that action specifically?

Having Town working off faulty info is far far worse. Having Toony redirect a kill into the doctor is far far worse. Being confirmed town when there is clearly a break in logic is far far far far worse on later days. Cause by that point the damage is already done.

As is, now toony A: Knows I'm no longer immune to death, and B: can bus me around. This is just icing though, I wanted claims to be made so this reveal could pick apart the real inconsistency. And as you having claimed despite repeated proddings? Not even a target last night, not a peep.

Last..
Quote
everyone would have assumed you couldn't be killed after it was visibly demonstrated.
This is untrue. All townies would know I couldn't be killed. Or third parties if they exist. Mafia knows something is up unless they targeted 4mask. Giving them the information advantage AND a town befuddled with a false night report.


Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.
I mean, you could claim? Unvote for now.

@Tric: You need to put your "Unvote" in RED, otherwise Web might not count it.  Reminder because I think you should Unvote Max.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 10:32:59 pm
Also don't think I didn't notice that deflection MaxSpin. Jim may have asked you to vote, but doing so right at the last second is way too much.
That's when I was there. If I had been there sooner after the other guys changed, I would have voted sooner. I only noticed I was right under the wire afterward.

I suspect Max for voting Vector to save Toony at the literal last minute
I didn't vote to save Toony. I voted to lynch Vector, which I had already started doing before, remember? I tried to get people to vote Vector before I ever voted ToonyMan.
Nah, I don't buy that.

Vote Count revamped again! Highest vote counts are on top! Wondering if top should be bolded, so for now it is.

Vote Count
------------------------
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
ToonyMan - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361953#msg8361953),
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),

4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
EuchreJack - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361690#msg8361690),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (2 hours and 23 minutes remaining.)

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 2 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362025#msg8362025),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
Vector - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361201#msg8361201), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424),

EuchreJack - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361690#msg8361690),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (1 hours and 0 minutes remaining.)

Vector was one of the leading wagons for awhile. And during this time you only wanted to vote them because of their double vote, not because you thought they were mafia.

Sure, okay, let's bandwagon this thing, might as well. ToonyMan

As long as I get to lynch somebody.
Once you see it isn't going through, you swap over to Toony. You don't really give a reason for it besides just wanting to lynch anyone you can.

Vector
Vote Count
------------------------
ToonyMan - 3 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361388#msg8361388), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362051#msg8362051), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362052#msg8362052),
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361883#msg8361883),
Vector - 2 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361926#msg8361926),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361229#msg8361229),
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361241#msg8361241),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 24, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (0 hours and 3 minutes remaining.)

Toony is now the leading wagon. You're going to get exactly what you said you wanted. But then 4mask votes Vector, putting them one vote behind Toony.

Btw to answer the previous question: the two players who are off-meta are Tric and Max. Tric hasn't been playing detective much, and Max is contributing a lot for Day 1, way more than usual,
I am?
Quote
However, Max softed something pro-town, so I'm mixed there.
I did???

I legitimately don't remember doing that, could you remind me when? I thought I'd been keeping pretty close-vested this time.

Vector
Even though you're supposedly fine with voting out Toony, you still swap back to Vector and don't give anyone enough time to react. But even though your "preferred" elim went through and flipped town, you haven't done anything to reevaluate.

From your point of view, if you're town then you should have reason to believe 4mask baited you into hammering Vector. You were notably tunneled on them, scum would've seen it. But instead, you've tried to shut down discussion and got mad at me when I inferred that 4mask is suspicious. You should be interrogating him, hounding him down for answers, but you're not really doing anything. Why?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 26, 2022, 10:37:26 pm
Jack idk what you're doing but you're really not helping.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 26, 2022, 10:40:34 pm
Personally, I think the two mafia are inside 4mask/Roden/NQT. Although I don't believe Roden and NQT are both mafia, which gives me great pleasure to say that means 4mask is always mafia from my POV. There is one thing 4mask can claim that could change my opinion, so it's up to them whether they're able to do that.

99% Town
Tric - MY ROOOOOOOOOOOLE OMG MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424)

90% Town
Jack - would have to be scum with Max, otherwise town

Probably Town
Jim - just seems town to me, sorry Vector
Max - they're implying something that makes them very town

Suspicious
NQT - need to see more
Roden - hmmm
4mask - pushed shady cases on Tric and Jack D1 which really bugs me since they're the two most obviously town players, also has nitpicked stuff I've said which is what they did as mafia in Supernatural 10 but could just be what 4mask does when they suspect someone
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2022, 11:06:49 pm
Jack idk what you're doing but you're really not helping.

Could you explain this further?
Your last two posts actually give you some town points, so let me know what you are doing, and maybe I can be less unhelpful.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 26, 2022, 11:42:01 pm
ALRIGHT.

I REDIRECTED EVERYBODY EXCEPT 4MASKWOLF TO 4MASKWOLF. I ALSO WATCHED TOONYMAN VISIT 4MASKWOLF. I AM NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN HOW I AM ABLE TO DO BOTH OF THESE THINGS.

I DID NOT LOSE ANY AUTOS AND I HAVE NO INDICATION THAT ANYTHING THAT I DID FAILED. I'M SOMEWHAT CONFUSED BY THE RESULTS IN THIS CASE. A COUPLE POINTS OF CONFUSION AND OBSERVATION:

I) IF TOONYMAN IS TELLING THE TRUTH, I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THAT EVERYTHING, INCLUDING MY OWN ACTION TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF, WOULD HAVE TARGETED TRICMAGIC, SO I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD HAVE SEEN MORE THAN JUST TOONYMAN.
II) IF MY ACTIONS ARE SUCCESSFUL I DON'T SEE HOW NOTQUITETHERE TRACKS RODEN AND GETS A RESULT THAT HE'S UNTRACKABLE, UNLESS NOTQUITETHERE IS IMMUNE TO REDIRECTS, TRICMAGIC IS UNTRACKABLE, SOME OTHER WEIRD SHIT IS GOING ON, OR NOTQUITETHERE IS NOT BEING HONEST WITH HIS CLAIM.
III) THE EFFECTS TRICMAGIC CLAIMED, I.E., DYING AND REVIVING AND LOSING HIS AUTO, ARE ALSO CONSISTENT WITH BEING THE TARGET OF THE NIGHT KILL AND TOONYMAN YOINKING HIS AUTOS.

I THINK TOONYMAN'S CLAIM IS BELIEVABLE. I FIND NOTQUITETHERE'S CLAIM SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE GIVEN EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN CLAIMED. IF NOTQUITETHERE'S CLAIM IS FALSE THEN THIS ALSO PUTS SUSPICION ONTO RODEN SINCE NOTQUITETHERE CLAIMED RODEN'S UNTRACKABILITY BEFORE RODEN CLAIMED IT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 26, 2022, 11:43:37 pm
Tric - MY ROOOOOOOOOOOLE OMG MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MY ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361424#msg8361424)

pffffffffffffffffffffffffftaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha*wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze*
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 27, 2022, 12:03:55 am
Vector was one of the leading wagons for awhile. And during this time you only wanted to vote them because of their double vote, not because you thought they were mafia.
I didn't give any reason for my vote and explicitly rejected, a few times, people's assertion that I was voting because of the double vote.

Quote
Even though you're supposedly fine with voting out Toony, you still swap back to Vector and don't give anyone enough time to react. But even though your "preferred" elim went through and flipped town, you haven't done anything to reevaluate.

From your point of view, if you're town then you should have reason to believe 4mask baited you into hammering Vector. You were notably tunneled on them, scum would've seen it. But instead, you've tried to shut down discussion and got mad at me when I inferred that 4mask is suspicious. You should be interrogating him, hounding him down for answers, but you're not really doing anything. Why?
You know I started the Vector wagon, right? BOTH times, since the second time, I explicitly said I would switch to Vector if other people voted Vector - and 4mask voted after asking Jim what to vote after I had endorsed voting Vector to Jim. I won't assert that 4mask isn't suspicious and have no issue with you suspecting him, but he didn't bait me into anything.

Oh jeez there's another page I didn't see hold on
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 27, 2022, 12:09:35 am
ALRIGHT.

I REDIRECTED EVERYBODY EXCEPT 4MASKWOLF TO 4MASKWOLF. I ALSO WATCHED TOONYMAN VISIT 4MASKWOLF. I AM NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN HOW I AM ABLE TO DO BOTH OF THESE THINGS.

I DID NOT LOSE ANY AUTOS AND I HAVE NO INDICATION THAT ANYTHING THAT I DID FAILED. I'M SOMEWHAT CONFUSED BY THE RESULTS IN THIS CASE. A COUPLE POINTS OF CONFUSION AND OBSERVATION:

I) IF TOONYMAN IS TELLING THE TRUTH, I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THAT EVERYTHING, INCLUDING MY OWN ACTION TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF, WOULD HAVE TARGETED TRICMAGIC, SO I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD HAVE SEEN MORE THAN JUST TOONYMAN.
Shouldn't you have seen everyone who did anything visit in either case? That definitely includes me, at least. And if my target was actually secretly 4maskwolf, this is a matter of some inconvenience for me, I hope you can understand. What's the priority on your action?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 27, 2022, 12:21:26 am
Jack idk what you're doing but you're really not helping.

Could you explain this further?
Your last two posts actually give you some town points, so let me know what you are doing, and maybe I can be less unhelpful.
Basically the rolefish accusations aren't helping. Tric has more or less already full claimed but in a way that's very scattered and hard to follow. And even though he's spewed himself town by now, I'm trying to understand how he can have such a powerful role while town also supposedly has a Bus Driver that can protect him, and I'm a Commuter with an emergency Vig shot. I don't want to mech solve because it can easily backfire, but you have to admit, town power is kinda nuts.

Also accusing me of trying to rolefish Max is just blatantly incorrect. I keep saying that I don't care what his role is, I just want to know who he claims to have targeted and see if he lies.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 27, 2022, 12:27:37 am
Shouldn't you have seen everyone who did anything visit in either case? That definitely includes me, at least. And if my target was actually secretly 4maskwolf, this is a matter of some inconvenience for me, I hope you can understand. What's the priority on your action?

IT TURNS OUT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND HOW MY ROLE WORKED.

APPARENTLY IT REDIRECTED ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGETED ME TO 4MASKWOLF.

SO THERE'S NO MASS REDIRECTION.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 27, 2022, 01:03:54 am
Yay Jim got my present!

And also apparently tried to get me killed on his behalf which I'm quite cross about.

For the record, my only action last night was a free action so I could, in theory, have done something else. But I don't have any actions to use lmao (not technically true but I gave away my only action).

Toony I always nitpick stuff you say, I do it because I love you <3

Actually I do it because you're the player here whose wolf game makes me the most nervous so I'm constantly vigilant around the things you say in thread.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 27, 2022, 09:42:13 am
Vote Count
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 2 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362389#msg8362389), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362508#msg8362508),
Roden - 1 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362596#msg8362596),
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362498#msg8362498),

Not Voting - 4 - 4maskwolf, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64, ToonyMan,

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~82 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2022, 09:53:46 am
Yay Jim got my present!

And also apparently tried to get me killed on his behalf which I'm quite cross about.

For the record, my only action last night was a free action so I could, in theory, have done something else. But I don't have any actions to use lmao (not technically true but I gave away my only action).

Toony I always nitpick stuff you say, I do it because I love you <3

Actually I do it because you're the player here whose wolf game makes me the most nervous so I'm constantly vigilant around the things you say in thread.
@4maskwolf: I don't believe you.
The roles already mentioned, plus my own, would indicate that you should have more power than that.
So you're either lying Town or lying Mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 27, 2022, 10:00:29 am
Jim's role redirecting everything that targeted him to 4mask. Also my Sacrifice is P1, so would need something of similar or higher speed for it to be messed with.

Also, this makes 3 millers that can't really be messed with. For some reason. And of them, EuchreJackis the most suspicious since he says he can't be tracked or affected, but can be killed.

By the same manner, Max is holding back information, telling people to infer what he did. And the only action that hasn't been claimed is alignment investigation. But here's the important bit, mislynching today makes Day 3 far worse for town. There is simply too much confusion.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 27, 2022, 10:02:09 am
You're welcome to yell at me Toony, but I'm calling Max out. Reveal or perish. If he's correct/town, it seems I'm capable of protecting them. If not, they're on the chopping block.'
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2022, 10:17:01 am
Jim's role redirecting everything that targeted him to 4mask. Also my Sacrifice is P1, so would need something of similar or higher speed for it to be messed with.

Also, this makes 3 millers that can't really be messed with. For some reason. And of them, EuchreJackis the most suspicious since he says he can't be tracked or affected, but can be killed.

By the same manner, Max is holding back information, telling people to infer what he did. And the only action that hasn't been claimed is alignment investigation. But here's the important bit, mislynching today makes Day 3 far worse for town. There is simply too much confusion.
Unfortunately, my role is designed to very much look like scum even though I'm town.
I have no information that will clear me today.
Pretty sure my role is BATMAN.

You're welcome to yell at me Toony, but I'm calling Max out. Reveal or perish. If he's correct/town, it seems I'm capable of protecting them. If not, they're on the chopping block.'
Max has claimed as much as they need to claim.  But frankly, its so painfully obvious they might as well claim, as I'm sure mafia has seen through Max entirely.
I am at a loss to imagine a mafia team where at least one player has NOT seen what Max is soft claiming.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 27, 2022, 11:32:37 am
APPARENTLY IT REDIRECTED ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGETED ME TO 4MASKWOLF.
So my auto-wipe that targeted you went to 4mask, but then because I swapped 4mask and Tric I actually ended up auto-wiping Tric anyway.

That's kind of hilarious, good thing they blew their load on N1 anyway.

And the only action that hasn't been claimed is alignment investigation.
Ding ding ding!

Millers don't mean anything without a cop. Max has softed he's our Cop and also Role Cop.  I believe he targeted Jack last night and had their result fail. Which means Jack is telling the truth about that part at least or is in cahoots with Max. I was thinking that the only players that could be our cop now were Max or 4mask, but 4mask isn't so Max is town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 27, 2022, 12:15:03 pm
Yay Jim got my present!

And also apparently tried to get me killed on his behalf which I'm quite cross about.

For the record, my only action last night was a free action so I could, in theory, have done something else. But I don't have any actions to use lmao (not technically true but I gave away my only action).

Toony I always nitpick stuff you say, I do it because I love you <3

Actually I do it because you're the player here whose wolf game makes me the most nervous so I'm constantly vigilant around the things you say in thread.
@4maskwolf: I don't believe you.
The roles already mentioned, plus my own, would indicate that you should have more power than that.
So you're either lying Town or lying Mafia.
My role is quite powerful in its own right, but I do lack any form of repeatable night action.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 27, 2022, 01:13:50 pm
Busy weekend here, but I'll be back to expected posting frequency on Monday if not before. Just briefly:

- Jim, now you have read your power and see I wasn't redirected, do you still question how I could know Roden was untrackable? Roden even confirmed this...

- Roden, I didn't force you to claim, that's absurd. I just find it highly doubtful that we have three untrackable millers. You coming out with the commuter claim is unforced deflection.

With my tinfoil hat on: the site meta has for a long time been that miller claims are believed. I think we've maybe finally got to the point where someone on a mafia team knows this and maybe can coach their team mates into a knock down strategy.

More later...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2022, 03:36:32 pm
APPARENTLY IT REDIRECTED ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGETED ME TO 4MASKWOLF.
So my auto-wipe that targeted you went to 4mask, but then because I swapped 4mask and Tric I actually ended up auto-wiping Tric anyway.

That's kind of hilarious, good thing they blew their load on N1 anyway.

And the only action that hasn't been claimed is alignment investigation.
Ding ding ding!

Millers don't mean anything without a cop. Max has softed he's our Cop and also Role Cop.  I believe he targeted Jack last night and had their result fail. Which means Jack is telling the truth about that part at least or is in cahoots with Max. I was thinking that the only players that could be our cop now were Max or 4mask, but 4mask isn't so Max is town.
Uh, no
Max inspected you Toonyman. Made a comment about how you're town unless Godfather.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2022, 03:37:53 pm
Saying you got an idea on the who, then voting no lynch?
...I said I had a clear idea who to suspect if nobody claims to have done what ToonyMan claimed to do. So, after ToonyMan claimed to do it, that idea doesn't matter as much, unless I assume ToonyMan is a godfather and made up the bus thing, which I guess is possible, but why would a mafia ToonyMan have agreed to target you?

I don't care what looks bad to you, you know that, right? I'm not answering your questions when I already told someone ELSE that the same questions should be saved for later. I don't owe you anything.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2022, 03:39:57 pm
While I currently town-read Toonyman, I feel I need to share this: Toonyman likes to claim Bus Driver when Mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 27, 2022, 03:55:32 pm
EuchreJack is my favorite player today.

The reason I initially said I felt like I might have wasted my action is because, even before nightfall, it had already occurred to me that this ability to "scrub clean" someone's autos (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360897#msg8360897) would make thematic sense as part of a role that might also be a godfather — but I wasn't really thinking straight when the time came to submit my night action (I had actually woken up in the middle of the actual night) and forgot that. That is to say, I already distrusted my own result before I got it.

On the other hand, I still don't see why a mafia ToonyMan would make this target choice unless he is also really a bus driver (in which case he might have targeted Jim → 4mask → Tric through his own swap); and if that had actually happened he probably wouldn't have called out the fact that the targeting would work that way when describing how his scrub action went down. Of course it's also possible that eg. ToonyMan is a godfather bus driver who made up the scrub ability or just has all three powers but there's no particular reason to think that those would go together. So I am genuinely leaning town on ToonyMan now, but not particularly far.

Unfortunately, my suspicions aren't leaning particularly far either right now. Not because people aren't being suspicious, but because too many of you are. Still... all right, I guess I might as well claim another major feature of my role, unless someone tells me not to in the next few minutes, maybe.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2022, 04:04:48 pm
Maybe don't paint an even bigger bullseye on yourself.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 27, 2022, 04:06:18 pm
Nah, I beleive you Max. Unvote. So I suppose I'll be doctoring you from now on.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 27, 2022, 05:20:59 pm
Unvote

Didn't really need all of that, but alright. I thought the crumb was that you targeted a Miller (specifically me) and I was going to consider it a scum claim.

However now it looks like the PoE is just me/NQT/4mask/Jack. I still town read Jack + I know I'm town and can prove it with my Vig shot. Am I right to think voting out one of NQT/4mask and then having me Vig the other wins the game?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 27, 2022, 05:29:46 pm
Unvote

Didn't really need all of that, but alright. I thought the crumb was that you targeted a Miller (specifically me) and I was going to consider it a scum claim.

However now it looks like the PoE is just me/NQT/4mask/Jack. I still town read Jack + I know I'm town and can prove it with my Vig shot. Am I right to think voting out one of NQT/4mask and then having me Vig the other wins the game?
Generally pre-vigging one of them makes more sense. At the moment NQT says they tracked you and your active ability blocked it. Unless your vig shot is instead a night kill, in which case it won't clear you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 27, 2022, 05:33:13 pm
We can probably assume one of the millers happens to be lying however. Jim redirects, Jack is just plain unaffectable, and you have an activated hide ability.. And reasoning for not lynching you.

Is there a reason not to lynch you today? The hammerer gets your abilities, but I'm starting to think that's just a lie. Or if it is true it's to counterbalance your strength as mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 27, 2022, 05:52:23 pm
Max inspected you Toonyman. Made a comment about how you're town unless Godfather.
Oh, I'm dumb.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 27, 2022, 05:56:28 pm
However now it looks like the PoE is just me/NQT/4mask/Jack. I still town read Jack + I know I'm town and can prove it with my Vig shot. Am I right to think voting out one of NQT/4mask and then having me Vig the other wins the game?
If you're town I do believe the mafia is in fact just NQT and 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 27, 2022, 06:00:47 pm
Also for what it's worth: I still believe all 3 of The Millers more than 4mask (and Knightwing/NQT).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 27, 2022, 06:06:07 pm
Also for what it's worth: I still believe all 3 of The Millers more than 4mask (and Knightwing/NQT).
Fair enough.. I do have a question. 4mask gave a present to Jim, but I don't think Jim said he recieved a present, just that he redirected it to 4mask. I assume you got a message saying your bussing succeeded, so wouldn't I have received it? But I never actually got anything, other than the knife that showed up at the beginning of the days post in thread. And that bits more lore than anything else.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 27, 2022, 06:07:42 pm
Everyone: Which miller do you believe least?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 27, 2022, 06:18:32 pm
Unvote

Didn't really need all of that, but alright. I thought the crumb was that you targeted a Miller (specifically me) and I was going to consider it a scum claim.

However now it looks like the PoE is just me/NQT/4mask/Jack. I still town read Jack + I know I'm town and can prove it with my Vig shot. Am I right to think voting out one of NQT/4mask and then having me Vig the other wins the game?
Generally pre-vigging one of them makes more sense. At the moment NQT says they tracked you and your active ability blocked it. Unless your vig shot is instead a night kill, in which case it won't clear you.
I mean if two people die at once you'll know I'm a Vig + that'll be the only time I'm vulnerable so I'll flip tonight regardless, as scum really can't afford not to kill me.

We can probably assume one of the millers happens to be lying however. Jim redirects, Jack is just plain unaffectable, and you have an activated hide ability.. And reasoning for not lynching you.

Is there a reason not to lynch you today? The hammerer gets your abilities, but I'm starting to think that's just a lie. Or if it is true it's to counterbalance your strength as mafia.
No it's counter balance to my role since I technically omitted something that I may as well claim now. I also have a 1-shot Doctor, which is why I said town seems to have an obscene amount of power. I was going to use it tonight to cover whoever would be left exposed after everyone else's protection and bus swapping went through, but it doesn't really matter now since my duty at this point is to blast the PoE then die.

One last caveat is that my abilities get stolen no matter how I die, not just if I get hammered. However, they only get them if they're abilities I haven't yet used. I didn't want to claim that last bit for obvious reasons, I don't want to give mafia a Vig shot or my Commuter ability. However, if I die tonight all they'll get is my 1-shot Doc, which does almost nothing in scum hands, so I'm fine with full claiming now.

Flavor for my pick was Havel the Rock from Dark Souls. I'm a Miller because Havel is a hostile enemy, and I get my abilities stolen because thematically I'm dropping loot when I die. My armor is the Commute, my shield is the Doc, and my Dragon's Tooth Hammer is my Vig.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 27, 2022, 06:22:11 pm
Everyone: Which miller do you believe least?
I town read the other two, but gun to my head I'd say Jim. I just don't believe Web gives town two protection roles who are hard to kill, as well as two redirecting roles.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 27, 2022, 06:41:34 pm
Also for what it's worth: I still believe all 3 of The Millers more than 4mask (and Knightwing/NQT).
Fair enough.. I do have a question. 4mask gave a present to Jim, but I don't think Jim said he recieved a present, just that he redirected it to 4mask. I assume you got a message saying your bussing succeeded, so wouldn't I have received it? But I never actually got anything, other than the knife that showed up at the beginning of the days post in thread. And that bits more lore than anything else.
As far as I'm aware everything I did was successful.

@Roden:
I believe your claim. I also believe Jack and Jim, so.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 27, 2022, 10:23:03 pm
Also for what it's worth: I still believe all 3 of The Millers more than 4mask (and Knightwing/NQT).
Fair enough.. I do have a question. 4mask gave a present to Jim, but I don't think Jim said he recieved a present, just that he redirected it to 4mask. I assume you got a message saying your bussing succeeded, so wouldn't I have received it? But I never actually got anything, other than the knife that showed up at the beginning of the days post in thread. And that bits more lore than anything else.
Jim said he received something, but he's smartly not claiming what it is. I'm not told what priority my giving items "action" is but I assume it outspeeds any disruption just for simplicity's sake. All I know is that the item did leave my possession.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 01:09:31 am
I'm getting a little impatient with this Non-voting town.
4maskwolf is my secondary scum pick currently as giving an item does not clear one as scum, it just means it is less likely they did last night's kill.

However, NQT is my top scum pick, as their minimal posting is pinging my scumdar.

@Toonyman & Roden: Why are you not voting either of these players?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 01:29:03 am
I'm waiting to see what everyone thinks of the PoE. 4mask not reacting to it at all is pretty bad, and idk why NQT hasn't shown up yet but I'd like to know their thoughts as well.

I'm not voting yet because it doesn't really matter who goes between 4mask and NQT, we yeet one and I'm pancaking the other regardless. There's no need to rush the vote anyway, we need to discuss everything and come up with a plan in case everyone in the PoE somehow flips town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 01:36:46 am
Yeah, but you don't want a repeat of Day 1 voting-wise...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 01:41:29 am
I don't think that's possible this time, our voting options are a lot more clear today.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 01:46:52 am
I don't think that's possible this time, our voting options are a lot more clear today.
Really?
Everyone has differing opinions, and nobody is cleared.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 02:07:44 am
I don't think that's possible this time, our voting options are a lot more clear today.
Really?
Everyone has differing opinions, and nobody is cleared.
Do you have a problem with anyone's claims or results?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 28, 2022, 02:14:59 am
Jim said he received something, but he's smartly not claiming what it is. I'm not told what priority my giving items "action" is but I assume it outspeeds any disruption just for simplicity's sake. All I know is that the item did leave my possession.
4maskwolf, I don't buy it, I know for a fact that there is a specific numerical priority for free actions that "outspeed everything else" and I do not believe that you, specifically, have your priorities hidden.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 02:35:23 am
I WANT TO CLAIM MY NIGHT 1 RESULTS SINCE I EXPECT THEY SHOULD BE VERY INTERESTING BUT I AM CHECKING IN WITH WEBADICT ABOUT SOMETHING FIRST.

IN THE MEANTIME,

Jim did you get my present?

I DID RECEIVE SOMETHING, YES.

Followup I realized I should have added right after I hit post: I'm about to leave the house, but, in case you do irrationally daykill me while I'm away, I think I've left enough hints that people can put together my target last night along with my flip.

I THINK I ALMOST UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE IMPLYING.

So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.

DOES USING THIS ABILITY ALSO KILL YOU?

Anyone else get the feeling the team is Toony/Max?

NAH.

Note: Jim did in fact claim to get something from 4maskwolf.

This does make Jim the most suspicious of the millers.
Roden knows that if only one person dies tonight, his vigilante claim goes out the window, so that is enough town cred for today.
Roden has also committed to targets in a typically vigilante sort of way.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 04:02:51 am
I was worried scum could have a Roleblocker and stop my Vig that way, but no one seemed to have an issue with their action last night except NQT, who only failed because I Commuted, so I doubt one exists.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but the town vs mafia power disparity feels very off. I would've expected at least a blocker of some kind, but without one I'm just confused about what exactly they're supposed to do. Does anyone else feel this way?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2022, 06:39:03 am
4mask not reacting to it at all is pretty bad
Yep. I'm saying they're 100% mafia in every post and there's nothing...

I'm pretty sure a roleblocker exists based on part of my role, so I think mafia just didn't use it last night? Or they did but it went down in a way where we're unaware. Let's just say I have another ability that's useless if no roleblocker exists.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2022, 06:49:48 am
4maskwolf - gave a thing to Jim
EuchreJack - I have no idea
Jim Groovester - redirected all actions from self to 4mask, watched me visit 4mask, presumably because I targeted Jim, confirmed they got the thing from 4mask
notquitethere - tried to track Roden, failed because commuter
Maximum Spin - inspected me, got town result
Roden - hid as commuter
ToonyMan - tried to autowipe Jim, swapped 4mask and Tric as bus driver
TricMagic - nuked self to prevent any deaths

Some things:
1. How was 4mask able to give Jim an item?
2. Jack what did you do last night? Did I miss it?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 09:09:38 am
I was worried scum could have a Roleblocker and stop my Vig that way, but no one seemed to have an issue with their action last night except NQT, who only failed because I Commuted, so I doubt one exists.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but the town vs mafia power disparity feels very off. I would've expected at least a blocker of some kind, but without one I'm just confused about what exactly they're supposed to do. Does anyone else feel this way?

Well, if you have multiple abilities, it stands to reason that mafia has multiple abilities.  Thus, they probably have a roleblocker that they didn't use.
Additionally, we won't know the mafia vs. town power balance until the game is over.

2. Jack what did you do last night? Did I miss it?

I didn't claim.
Since everyone has claimed, I might as well.
I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  So it only bolsters existing players, but I felt it best to be clear whom I am bolstering.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 28, 2022, 09:25:13 am
I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  So it only bolsters existing players, but I felt it best to be clear whom I am bolstering.
Hey, I'm taking back what I said before. You don't get credit if you didn't figure it out on your own!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 11:18:46 am
Jim said he received something, but he's smartly not claiming what it is. I'm not told what priority my giving items "action" is but I assume it outspeeds any disruption just for simplicity's sake. All I know is that the item did leave my possession.
4maskwolf, I don't buy it, I know for a fact that there is a specific numerical priority for free actions that "outspeed everything else" and I do not believe that you, specifically, have your priorities hidden.
My ability to hand off items it attached to an auto, and thus has no listed priority.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2022, 11:48:38 am
4mask, who does Roden shoot if you flip town? Jack still?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2022, 12:03:44 pm
Approach
When scumhunting, I have one major rubric for evaluating players: do they actually want to catch the scum? This can be broken down into various smaller questions like:
- Do they show through their posting an engagement with the game (its state of play and mechanics) that seeks to solve?
- Do they interact with a wide range of players?
- Do they entertain multiple possibilities?

Bad town play can make for false positives, but in general the most engaged players are usually town.

So let's see the players. This is basically D1 only as I ran out of time. D2 readback wil come next when I can.

Euchrejack

Out the gates with the early Miller claim. Euchrejack is the only 'miller' who claimed pre-emptively and unprovoked. But he also has the most suspect of miller mechanics, claiming to flip mafia on death but then later rescinds and says he doesn't. Still, for that he's active and has a range of suspects (which is maybe bare minimum for play).

Toony

First thing, claims a red inspect on Roden as a joke, which Roden freaks out about. Toony is nice and active and offers suspicions and teams... but doesn't really explain them a lot of the time. Like this is typical fare:

EuchreJack. I feel like it's 4mask and Jack if Jim is town.

Or Vector is one of the mafia and I have no idea who the other is, but not much I can do about that.

He says "I feel like", but anyone can have feelings... I can feel ill disposed to a player because I have indigestion or I hate their posting style. What we want to see are reasons. What I do like is Toony is willing to entertain different suspects, and jumps about a fair bit. That's what we expect to see from someone who's genuinly considering it all.


4mask

Redpeeks (fake or not?) Jim. Has poor follow up. He later implies that he has real reasons for suspecting Toony but this is pure vagueness. It could be true: town can hidden info on each other that for mechanical reasons we don't want to share, but the mafia always have such info. So it's a bit of a dubious approach.

He has a very emotive play, honed on his jaunts on other sites I guess, which is hard to parse in the Bay12 context. Stuff like this:

4mask say something only town!4mask would say and I'll vote Tric. I think he's the biggest hit between Jack/Tric/Max if you're town.
Toonyman
:wowee: :wowee: :wowee:

Re: Jim and townreads I’d seen it said so much (including by me) that I was wondering if he was just threadspewed town at that point, only to find out it was only about half the thread.

Jim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361299#msg8361299) doesn't understand it, and I don't understand it either. I do like how he comes around to giving actual reason for voting Jack... it's a low bar for voting but not all players reach it.

Roden

Really interesting thing. While Jack miller claims without provocation, Roden reluctantly does so after trying to confirm whether of not the (fake)inspect on them was meant seriously:

I got a mafia result on Roden.
Is this a serious claim?

They then go from being cagey about giving info, to spewing it left and right with the miller, auto and commuter claims.

His vote on Vector was just about being "comfortable":


I'm comfortable voting somewhere in 4mask/Knightwing/Vector. I know the latter two typically don't post much but they feel extra lurky.

Vector

What reasoning is this? The vote on Knightwing is more understandable, it's a pressure vote... but then they do nothing with it. It just sits inert while a town player is lynched. Classic scumplay.

Jim

Claims miller. 4mask had 'redpeeked' him but not in a serious way, he could have ignored it. (Aside: I think he submitted Film Crit Hulk (https://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/hulk-explains-why-we-should-stop-it-with-the-hero-journey-shit/), before he gave up the all caps routine.) One interesting result of the all caps thing is a lot of players just don't want to interact with Jim. I'll remember this the next time I play scum! Tiruin used to slip through games by having a hard-to-parse style and something similar may be going on here.

Anyway, that's interesting, but I don't think it's an intentional tactic. Jim gives reads (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8361052#msg8361052) and explains a lot of them cogently enough, so he's not using the style thing to activelurk or similar.

Tric

Opening angle is about how much someone wants to live... town players often show a willingness for self sacrifice, but wanting to survive is not a purely mafia (or 3rd party) trait. It's NAI and this is a questionable line of enquiry. Still Tric spends most of D1 not actually doing anything. Really wishy-washy stuff.

Max Spin
Their play is really weird. They turn on Vector with basically no reason. Just pure wagonning. Is it because Vector hasn't posted much? If so, why not say? They really don't give much that's good to work with. After my D2 read back, I'm going to drill down on this one.

So in summary, before getting into the nitty-gritty of night action claims and the like, my D1 reads are:

Town
Jim
Toony

Hmmm
EuchreJack
4mask
Tric

Scum
Max Spin
Roden
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 28, 2022, 12:20:42 pm
Max Spin
Their play is really weird. They turn on Vector with basically no reason. Just pure wagonning. Is it because Vector hasn't posted much? If so, why not say? They really don't give much that's good to work with. After my D2 read back, I'm going to drill down on this one.
I am only one person.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 01:33:24 pm
4mask, who does Roden shoot if you flip town? Jack still?
Eh. Gun to head have to answer now I'd say yeah but I haven't really had a chance to evaluate my reads based on everything that's happened. I had some thoughts overnight about Max but they claimed cop so I have to reevaluate, and I was enjoying a lazy weekend before the new term.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 01:35:08 pm
Somebody asked me yesterday right at EoD what :wowee: is. This is :wowee:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 03:11:36 pm
Wow NQT really wants me gone lol, you're describing my play as if every breath I took was sinister and planned.

Funny that neither NQT or 4mask have yet to react or respond to the PoE plan.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 03:13:00 pm
I was worried scum could have a Roleblocker and stop my Vig that way, but no one seemed to have an issue with their action last night except NQT, who only failed because I Commuted, so I doubt one exists.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but the town vs mafia power disparity feels very off. I would've expected at least a blocker of some kind, but without one I'm just confused about what exactly they're supposed to do. Does anyone else feel this way?

Well, if you have multiple abilities, it stands to reason that mafia has multiple abilities.  Thus, they probably have a roleblocker that they didn't use.
Additionally, we won't know the mafia vs. town power balance until the game is over.

2. Jack what did you do last night? Did I miss it?

I didn't claim.
Since everyone has claimed, I might as well.
I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  So it only bolsters existing players, but I felt it best to be clear whom I am bolstering.
Interesting. NQT already claimed Tracker.

Jim said he received something, but he's smartly not claiming what it is. I'm not told what priority my giving items "action" is but I assume it outspeeds any disruption just for simplicity's sake. All I know is that the item did leave my possession.
4maskwolf, I don't buy it, I know for a fact that there is a specific numerical priority for free actions that "outspeed everything else" and I do not believe that you, specifically, have your priorities hidden.
My ability to hand off items it attached to an auto, and thus has no listed priority.
That's not true, you already claimed it was a free action.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 03:27:36 pm
I can be inspected and will flip mafia.
will flip mafia.
Do I think Webadict would have a town role that flips mafia in a non-bastard?

...

I don't. You're interpreting incorrectly or lying.

I got a mafia result on Roden.
Is this a serious claim?
You tell me.
Please just answer the question.
Please just answer the question.
I would love to keep this up, but the no nonsense attitude is kind of a bummer. I am unsure if a mafia!Roden would behave this way.

I'm kidding about having a N0 (or immediate D1 action?) inspect on Roden because that's incredibly stupid. It's a joke because I've been framing Roden in the last few games. I can't believe I have to answer this straight-faced for him when he complained about me doing this in the last game and should know what I'm doing.

Anyway, probably town for now.
I figured that's what you were doing, but I wanted to be sure on the off chance you actually did have a N0 inspect on me, since I'm a Miller.

Jim Groovester is redpeeked, all aboard!

I'M A MILLER.

NOT THAT YOU WERE SERIOUS ABOUT IT ANYWAY.
...You too? So Jack, you, and me are all claiming Miller now.

Any other Millers we should know about?
This is considered a freak out I guess lol
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 03:54:22 pm
Switching to 4maskwolf, as I like the recent NQT post. It's a bit dated, but at least they're trying.

Roden, I'm feeling a bit better about you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 04:09:58 pm
I think what is bothering me the most about 4maskwolf is that their claim is confusing.
Even Jim's claim at least makes some marginal sense.
Now, I know what I have.  And others have shared what they have.  So, we know that most players have:
Auto
Ability 1
Ability 2

Now, there may be variations on that.  But I just can't make sense of 4maskwolf.  Which is exactly how scum would play, since mafia probably have:
Auto
Ability 1
Ability 2
Mafiakill

With the abilities in mafia hands likely being only useful to scum, or marginally useful for town.

I was worried scum could have a Roleblocker and stop my Vig that way, but no one seemed to have an issue with their action last night except NQT, who only failed because I Commuted, so I doubt one exists.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but the town vs mafia power disparity feels very off. I would've expected at least a blocker of some kind, but without one I'm just confused about what exactly they're supposed to do. Does anyone else feel this way?

Well, if you have multiple abilities, it stands to reason that mafia has multiple abilities.  Thus, they probably have a roleblocker that they didn't use.
Additionally, we won't know the mafia vs. town power balance until the game is over.

2. Jack what did you do last night? Did I miss it?

I didn't claim.
Since everyone has claimed, I might as well.
I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  So it only bolsters existing players, but I felt it best to be clear whom I am bolstering.
Interesting. NQT already claimed Tracker.

Credit where credit is due, good point Roden.  For now, I can accept two town trackers.  But I'll add NQT to my POE.

I would say my POE is 4maskwolf/NQT/Jim.  Roden is on the periphery, but I think Roden is town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 04:12:17 pm
I was worried scum could have a Roleblocker and stop my Vig that way, but no one seemed to have an issue with their action last night except NQT, who only failed because I Commuted, so I doubt one exists.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but the town vs mafia power disparity feels very off. I would've expected at least a blocker of some kind, but without one I'm just confused about what exactly they're supposed to do. Does anyone else feel this way?

Well, if you have multiple abilities, it stands to reason that mafia has multiple abilities.  Thus, they probably have a roleblocker that they didn't use.
Additionally, we won't know the mafia vs. town power balance until the game is over.

2. Jack what did you do last night? Did I miss it?

I didn't claim.
Since everyone has claimed, I might as well.
I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  So it only bolsters existing players, but I felt it best to be clear whom I am bolstering.
Interesting. NQT already claimed Tracker.

Jim said he received something, but he's smartly not claiming what it is. I'm not told what priority my giving items "action" is but I assume it outspeeds any disruption just for simplicity's sake. All I know is that the item did leave my possession.
4maskwolf, I don't buy it, I know for a fact that there is a specific numerical priority for free actions that "outspeed everything else" and I do not believe that you, specifically, have your priorities hidden.
My ability to hand off items it attached to an auto, and thus has no listed priority.
That's not true, you already claimed it was a free action.
Yes. I have an auto that tells me I can give away the items it gives me as a free action. It does not, however, provide a priority, since it's, y'know, an auto.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 04:15:59 pm
Honestly it'll make more sense if I claim my role so I'll just do that. I kinda expected to be entirely role-wiped by Toony last night but I wasn't actually auto-wiped by Toonyman.

I'm a scavenger. I get one-shot items when people die, and they appear to be at least loosely based on their role based on the two I've received so far. The auto that provides my scavenging ability also tells me I can give them away as a free action, but does not provide what priority that action is. It's also my only ability, barring the ones I get from scavenging.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 04:18:20 pm
I think what is bothering me the most about 4maskwolf is that their claim is confusing.
Even Jim's claim at least makes some marginal sense.
Now, I know what I have.  And others have shared what they have.  So, we know that most players have:
Auto
Ability 1
Ability 2

Now, there may be variations on that.  But I just can't make sense of 4maskwolf.  Which is exactly how scum would play, since mafia probably have:
Auto
Ability 1
Ability 2
Mafiakill

With the abilities in mafia hands likely being only useful to scum, or marginally useful for town.

I was worried scum could have a Roleblocker and stop my Vig that way, but no one seemed to have an issue with their action last night except NQT, who only failed because I Commuted, so I doubt one exists.

I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but the town vs mafia power disparity feels very off. I would've expected at least a blocker of some kind, but without one I'm just confused about what exactly they're supposed to do. Does anyone else feel this way?

Well, if you have multiple abilities, it stands to reason that mafia has multiple abilities.  Thus, they probably have a roleblocker that they didn't use.
Additionally, we won't know the mafia vs. town power balance until the game is over.

2. Jack what did you do last night? Did I miss it?

I didn't claim.
Since everyone has claimed, I might as well.
I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  So it only bolsters existing players, but I felt it best to be clear whom I am bolstering.
Interesting. NQT already claimed Tracker.

Credit where credit is due, good point Roden.  For now, I can accept two town trackers.  But I'll add NQT to my POE.

I would say my POE is 4maskwolf/NQT/Jim.  Roden is on the periphery, but I think Roden is town.
Stop. You're embarrassing yourself. Literally the only person on that list who can be a wolf is NQT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 04:23:17 pm
Honestly it'll make more sense if I claim my role so I'll just do that. I kinda expected to be entirely role-wiped by Toony last night but I wasn't actually auto-wiped by Toonyman.

I'm a scavenger. I get one-shot items when people die, and they appear to be at least loosely based on their role based on the two I've received so far. The auto that provides my scavenging ability also tells me I can give them away as a free action, but does not provide what priority that action is. It's also my only ability, barring the ones I get from scavenging.
I find this hard to believe.
Your claim is that you can do nothing except give other people stuff when someone dies.
It sounds like you are hiding another ability.  Which frankly, so am I.  But I'm not the one claiming to only have a scavenger ability.

Everyone else: Do you have two abilities? One ability? Anyone else think they're as weak as 4mask claims to be?

I mean, sure there is probably a power curve.  But I'm not buying the "I'm the only townie+" bit.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 04:24:24 pm
I would say my POE is 4maskwolf/NQT/Jim.  Roden is on the periphery, but I think Roden is town.
Stop. You're embarrassing yourself. Literally the only person on that list who can be a wolf is NQT.
[/quote]

Now this I would like to hear.  How have you managed to clear Jim & Roden?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 04:26:27 pm
I would say my POE is 4maskwolf/NQT/Jim.  Roden is on the periphery, but I think Roden is town.
Stop. You're embarrassing yourself. Literally the only person on that list who can be a wolf is NQT.

Now this I would like to hear.  How have you managed to clear Jim & Roden?
---DAMNIT, this is how it should appear-----
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 04:38:03 pm
I would say my POE is 4maskwolf/NQT/Jim.  Roden is on the periphery, but I think Roden is town.
Stop. You're embarrassing yourself. Literally the only person on that list who can be a wolf is NQT.

Now this I would like to hear.  How have you managed to clear Jim & Roden?
---DAMNIT, this is how it should appear-----
I wasn't actually including Roden, just the first three. I'm sorry, by the way. I'm having a bad day but I shouldn't have taken it out on you. My comment was excessively rude.

I'm currently processing a giant load of packages because it's Monday, so I can't provide my full case for Jim town. But basically the primary reasons are 1. the way he played D1 2. A vague metaread I'm attempting to refine on him and 3. his position in the miller claims.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2022, 04:47:02 pm
Honestly it'll make more sense if I claim my role so I'll just do that. I kinda expected to be entirely role-wiped by Toony last night but I wasn't actually auto-wiped by Toonyman.

I'm a scavenger. I get one-shot items when people die, and they appear to be at least loosely based on their role based on the two I've received so far. The auto that provides my scavenging ability also tells me I can give them away as a free action, but does not provide what priority that action is. It's also my only ability, barring the ones I get from scavenging.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE ITEMS ARE AND THE ABILITIES THEY PROVIDE BEFORE YOU GIFT THEM AWAY?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 04:59:10 pm
Honestly it'll make more sense if I claim my role so I'll just do that. I kinda expected to be entirely role-wiped by Toony last night but I wasn't actually auto-wiped by Toonyman.

I'm a scavenger. I get one-shot items when people die, and they appear to be at least loosely based on their role based on the two I've received so far. The auto that provides my scavenging ability also tells me I can give them away as a free action, but does not provide what priority that action is. It's also my only ability, barring the ones I get from scavenging.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE ITEMS ARE AND THE ABILITIES THEY PROVIDE BEFORE YOU GIFT THEM AWAY?
Yes. I can use them myself, so it would be odd if I didn't know what they do.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2022, 05:01:11 pm
WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE ME THE ONE YOU GAVE ME IF YOU COULD USE IT YOURSELF?

I AM A VERY BAD CHOICE FOR IT SINCE I TYPICALLY DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO REALLY MATTER.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 05:04:33 pm
...I have been informed that giving an item is technically P10 but, despite specifying who I give it to, somehow isn't targeted and thus can't be redirected?

WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE ME THE ONE YOU GAVE ME IF YOU COULD USE IT YOURSELF?

I AM A VERY BAD CHOICE FOR IT SINCE I TYPICALLY DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO REALLY MATTER.
Because I trust you and expected to die by some fuckery last night, be it a misguided town vigilante, the mafia, a third party, or a redirected kill of some sort. For understandable reasons I wasn't going to give just anyone that item so I gave it to my top town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2022, 05:10:30 pm
WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE ME THE ONE YOU GAVE ME IF YOU COULD USE IT YOURSELF?

I AM A VERY BAD CHOICE FOR IT SINCE I TYPICALLY DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO REALLY MATTER.
Because I trust you and expected to die by some fuckery last night, be it a misguided town vigilante, the mafia, a third party, or a redirected kill of some sort. For understandable reasons I wasn't going to give just anyone that item so I gave it to my top town.

WHY NOT USE THE ITEM DURING N1?

KNOWING WHAT IT IS IT MAKES SENSE NOT TO, BUT I STILL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 05:12:06 pm
WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE ME THE ONE YOU GAVE ME IF YOU COULD USE IT YOURSELF?

I AM A VERY BAD CHOICE FOR IT SINCE I TYPICALLY DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO REALLY MATTER.
Because I trust you and expected to die by some fuckery last night, be it a misguided town vigilante, the mafia, a third party, or a redirected kill of some sort. For understandable reasons I wasn't going to give just anyone that item so I gave it to my top town.

WHY NOT USE THE ITEM DURING N1?

KNOWING WHAT IT IS IT MAKES SENSE NOT TO, BUT I STILL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.
My response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 28, 2022, 05:12:36 pm
Honestly it'll make more sense if I claim my role so I'll just do that. I kinda expected to be entirely role-wiped by Toony last night but I wasn't actually auto-wiped by Toonyman.

I'm a scavenger. I get one-shot items when people die, and they appear to be at least loosely based on their role based on the two I've received so far. The auto that provides my scavenging ability also tells me I can give them away as a free action, but does not provide what priority that action is. It's also my only ability, barring the ones I get from scavenging.
What item did you get from me then?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 05:13:43 pm
Honestly it'll make more sense if I claim my role so I'll just do that. I kinda expected to be entirely role-wiped by Toony last night but I wasn't actually auto-wiped by Toonyman.

I'm a scavenger. I get one-shot items when people die, and they appear to be at least loosely based on their role based on the two I've received so far. The auto that provides my scavenging ability also tells me I can give them away as a free action, but does not provide what priority that action is. It's also my only ability, barring the ones I get from scavenging.
What item did you get from me then?
Your clearance is not high enough to access this information.

It's valuable and I'm using it tonight is all I'm saying.



Re: the item I gave Jim if I'd used it last night rather than give it away or hold onto it I might as well have thrown it in the garbage.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 28, 2022, 05:15:47 pm
...I have been informed that giving an item is technically P10 but, despite specifying who I give it to, somehow isn't targeted and thus can't be redirected?

WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE ME THE ONE YOU GAVE ME IF YOU COULD USE IT YOURSELF?

I AM A VERY BAD CHOICE FOR IT SINCE I TYPICALLY DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO REALLY MATTER.
Because I trust you and expected to die by some fuckery last night, be it a misguided town vigilante, the mafia, a third party, or a redirected kill of some sort. For understandable reasons I wasn't going to give just anyone that item so I gave it to my top town.

This, meanwhile, is just freaking odd. Why would giving a dead man a gift save them?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2022, 05:28:36 pm
My response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4)

FAIR ENOUGH.

YOU GUYS ARE JUST TOING TO HAVE TO TRUST ME. WE'RE NOT LYNCHING 4MASKWOLF TODAY.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 05:34:56 pm
Okay why Jim Groovester is town in three parts.

1. Jim seemed genuinely lost on D1 as far as who to go after. Jim's been playing mafia for well long enough to know how to fake it as a wolf so the fact that he, specifically, was lost on figuring out who the wolves were is a good look.
2. Jim seemed to be having fun with his role. This is the "dumb reasons" I alluded to when I first gave a townread on Jim. Jim's play in wolf games has always seemed pretty no-nonsense wolfing so him having fun with his role seemed out of character for wolf Jim.
3 (and the most important one). Coming in second on the miller claims is a pretty big deal. Fake-claiming miller first is easy, any wolf with enough guts can go for it and will probably get believed. Fake-claiming miller third in a 9-player game is a little harder, just because it looks odder, but still fairly easy because there's enough millers to diffuse suspicion if people want to start whacking miller claims. Claiming miller second, though... much harder. If nobody else claims miller you've basically counterclaimed an actual miller if people get suspicious of the miller claims (which is a pretty pointless counterclaim). In general, the only time the wolves like to the second to claim something is if they're hard-counterclaiming when going for the win, and even then they prefer to claim first. There's just an inherent suspicion to claiming second that wolves like to avoid if at all possible, and I don't think Jim casually walks into that suspicion when nobody is pushing him in the first place.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 05:35:55 pm
...I have been informed that giving an item is technically P10 but, despite specifying who I give it to, somehow isn't targeted and thus can't be redirected?

WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE ME THE ONE YOU GAVE ME IF YOU COULD USE IT YOURSELF?

I AM A VERY BAD CHOICE FOR IT SINCE I TYPICALLY DON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO REALLY MATTER.
Because I trust you and expected to die by some fuckery last night, be it a misguided town vigilante, the mafia, a third party, or a redirected kill of some sort. For understandable reasons I wasn't going to give just anyone that item so I gave it to my top town.

This, meanwhile, is just freaking odd. Why would giving a dead man a gift save them?
Tric pls.

I said I kinda expected to die, not that I expected Jim to die.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 28, 2022, 05:38:35 pm
Still doesn't answer what you got from MY death. If it's themed, you have a decent chance of proving your claim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 05:41:13 pm
Still doesn't answer what you got from MY death. If it's themed, you have a decent chance of proving your claim.
You can either trust Jim's judgement or you can choose not to. What I got off of you is valuable enough I don't want the wolves to be able to play around it short of roleblocking me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 28, 2022, 05:47:58 pm
One issue is, we need to trust trust you to trust you. I don't. More likely you're a counter to the powers around, especially if you can just ignore redirects.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2022, 05:55:13 pm
One issue is, we need to trust trust you to trust you. I don't. More likely you're a counter to the powers around, especially if you can just ignore redirects.

4MASKWOLF IS EXEMPT FROM MY POWER THAT REDIRECTS ALL PLAYERS WHO TARGETED ME TO HIM.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 06:04:42 pm
My response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4)

FAIR ENOUGH.

YOU GUYS ARE JUST TOING TO HAVE TO TRUST ME. WE'RE NOT LYNCHING 4MASKWOLF TODAY.
...fine.  But mafia inventor is a thing, you know?
UNVOTE
..as to why I'm following Jim's dictate, it sounds like something town!Jim would say.  Scum!Jim doesn't stick his neck out like that, unless the scum team is exactly 4maskwolf & Jim.  Now, other players as scum would totally do that (Web is my prime example, Toony maybe). But scum!Jim lets townies kill townies.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 06:09:29 pm
Still doesn't answer what you got from MY death. If it's themed, you have a decent chance of proving your claim.
Tric: If Jim is town, then we need to trust Jim to reveal the item when he deems it necessary, and not before.
Also: 4maskwolf claiming an item they could have gotten off your corpse just means they're a scavenger, not that they are town.  So it really doesn't mean so much.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 06:13:20 pm
@4maskwolf: Please clarify - Did you start with an item that you gave to Jim, then get an item from Tric's death that you plan to use tonight?
Could you have used your initial item yourself?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 28, 2022, 06:17:52 pm
I think what is bothering me the most about 4maskwolf is that their claim is confusing.
Even Jim's claim at least makes some marginal sense.
Now, I know what I have.  And others have shared what they have.  So, we know that most players have:
Auto
Ability 1
Ability 2
Oh right, since I now think ToonyMan is town, I should stipulate: I have no autos, and never had any autos, which is why I was unconcerned about ToonyMan's auto-wipe. I didn't say this before because I figured there was a shot I might intercept a hostile wipe attempt.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 06:18:10 pm
My response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4)

FAIR ENOUGH.

YOU GUYS ARE JUST TOING TO HAVE TO TRUST ME. WE'RE NOT LYNCHING 4MASKWOLF TODAY.
Ok, but I'm still gonna Vig there.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2022, 06:18:54 pm
I'VE BEEN STUMPED BY THE GAME SO I MORE OR LESS AVOIDED IT OVER THE WEEKEND. SHAME ON ME, ETC. I'VE ALSO BEEN TRYING TO PUT A POST TOGETHER FOR THE LAST SEVERAL HOURS THAT DID A LOT OF ANALYSIS AND STUFF BUT ULTIMATELY I'M JUST GOING TO STICK WITH THIS.

PEOPLE JIM DOES NOT WANT TO LYNCH:
TOONYMAN
TRICMAGIC
4MASKWOLF

PEOPLE JIM THINKS WOULD NOT BE PRODUCTIVE TO LYNCH:
MAXIMUM SPIN
EUCHREJACK

PEOPLE JIM IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT LYNCHING:
NOTQUITETHERE
RODEN


THERE ARE VERY FEW UNIVERSES WHERE 4MASKWOLF IS SCUM AND WILLINGLY GIVES ME THE ITEM HE DID. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT HE IS SCUM GOING FOR 500 IQ PLAYS AND IF HE IS I AM GOING TO BE VERY IMPRESSED.

I DON'T THINK TRICMAGIC WILLINGLY PREVENTS A KILL FROM HAPPENING IF HE'S SCUM, EXCEPT IF HE'S PLAYING 200 IQ GAMES. ALSO, THROUGH MANY NIGHT 1 COINCIDENCES I ENDED UP WATCHING TRICMAGIC AND ONLY TOONYMAN VISITED HIM SO THE ODDS OF HIM BEING SCUM AND FRIENDLY FIRE TAKING HIM OUT ARE LOW, SO I THINK HIS CLAIM CHECKS OUT.

FROM MY ROLE RESULTS I KNOW TOONYMAN DEMONSTRABLY DID SOMETHING AND A LOT OF THINGS WOULD HAVE TO PERFECTLY LINE UP FOR HIM TO BE FAKECLAIMING SO I'D SAY HE PROBABLY WAS NOT ATTEMPTING A NIGHT KILL. GENERALLY HE'S BEING ACTIVE AND TRYING TO SOLVE THE GAME AS WELL AND OTHER GOOD FUZZY FEELINGS.

MAXIMUM SPIN HINTED AT BEING A COP NOT JUST DURING DAY 2 BUT ALSO DURING DAY 1 DURING THE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE MANY MILLERS. IT'S TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE HE COULD BE SCUM BUT HE'S PLAYING COP CORRECTLY; DROPPING HINTS, AVOIDING CLAIMING, ETC.

EUCHREJACK HAS BEEN LESS ENGAGED DURING DAY 2 BUT I THINK THAT'S TRUE OF A LOT OF PLAYERS IN THE GAME BUT I THINK MY DAY 1 READ OF HIM BEING TOWN STILL APPLIES.

THIS LEAVES NOTQUITETHERE AND RODEN. NEITHER PLAYER DOES THINGS THAT TERRIBLY AGGRAVATE ME OR MAKE ME SUSPECT THEM BUT I SEE THEM AS LESS UNLIKELY TO BE SCUM THAN EVERYBODY ELSE.

BETWEEN THE TWO I THINK I PREFER RODEN SLIGHTLY MORE SO I AM GOING TO GO WITH NOTQUITETHERE. IF IT'S NOT NOTQUITETHERE OR RODEN THEN I AM GOING TO BE VERY CONFUSED.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 06:25:55 pm
@Jack: I don't believe we have two Trackers. Why the hell would town have two Trackers, two Docs that are situationally invulnerable, and two redirectors? Also why is 4mask town here? Why does town also get a scavenger that can essentially act as a backup to any townie that actually manages to die?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2022, 06:26:42 pm
On Roden

OK this is weird right when you consider that Roden has claimed not to have been commuting on N1:

What did you do last night Max?

How would have Max info? (or is it distancing...?)

Also why did they target Tric? Did they expect him to fake claim? I mean, he has before, but only to pretend his role was stronger than it actually was. It's a weird kill.
"First one to speculate on the kill choice is scum" is an old tell but it sometimes checks out.

I will say, though, that this is a good question to ask:

Tric, just to make sure I understand your role, you're claiming that if Jack dies, you'll also die? And that he's the only one you can't protect with your Doc ability? If so, why did you tell everyone this...?

I would guess that Tric is either lying or just likes to talk about how smart they are. Still, it's this from Roden is an example of rolefishing over scumhunting, something Tric is guilty of themselves. Jack was right to pick up on this dynamic.

Funny that neither NQT or 4mask have yet to react or respond to the PoE plan.
This is the first post where I've properly addressed D2, but go off. Anyway, it's nonsense, clearing people on the flimsiest of pretexts. Exactly the sort of thing I'd expect from mafia!roden.



On Jim

Jim doesn't know how his power works. To be fair, my power is a big ole wall of text so I can see how reading comprehension can go awry. NAI. But it does mean he spent a lot of effort on speculation based on bad info. That residual bad feeling appears to have spilled over into the latest vote.



On Max

Max's suggestion of No Lynch is a very dubious play. Not solving at all.

Max Spin
Their play is really weird. They turn on Vector with basically no reason. Just pure wagonning. Is it because Vector hasn't posted much? If so, why not say? They really don't give much that's good to work with. After my D2 read back, I'm going to drill down on this one.
I am only one person.
Not if you're on a mafia team, you're not.



On Tric

Tric is snipey but not very proactive. He's dedicated to extracting info from Max. Not hunting so much as bleeding dry. He confesses to having blown his load on N1. Which is a Choice, I guess. It means we have no info from the mafiakill. If he's telling the truth. Also, I could see mafia builds with a power along these lines, so I'm not sure why people are taking this as if it means Tric is cleared town.



On 4mask

Yes. I have an auto that tells me I can give away the items it gives me as a free action. It does not, however, provide a priority, since it's, y'know, an auto.
Not seeing why a scum!4mask would claim his power gives things for free when this opens him right back up as the mafiakiller. But, also... this opens him right back up as the mafiakiller!



On Euchrejack

Everyone else: Do you have two abilities? One ability? Anyone else think they're as weak as 4mask claims to be?

I mean, sure there is probably a power curve.  But I'm not buying the "I'm the only townie+" bit.
My power got the expected fiddliness (one-shots etc) you'd expect from Wuba, but it does essentially do one thing consistently: tracking. Expect a tracking result from me tomorrow.



On Toony— Toony has been active and solvey. Nothing to complain about for a D2.



Reads

My scum chart is much the same:


Town
Toony
Jim
EuchreJack

Hmmm
Tric
4mask

Scum
Max Spin
Roden
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2022, 06:30:24 pm
OK, now I'm out of WoT megaposting hell. My biggest questions for people who don't want to parse all the above:

- Why are people taking Max at face value??? People were convinced he was a cop... when he isn't. So...?
- Even if we do think Max is town, how is three millers a reasonable spread while somehow two town trackers is beyond the pale???
- Why do people think this is 100% town!Tric, as if being self absorbed was a town-only trait?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2022, 06:37:58 pm
Toony and everyone else believing this
Roden - hid as commuter
Though I guess, technically I'm not exactly a Commuter. I don't leave the game for the night, I'm basically just invulnerable unless I put my guard down. I have a 1-shot ability, but I'm saving it until we have less people.
Assuming everyone was telling the truth about their actions (though obviously they're not), either Roden or 4mask made the kill. Roden explicitly didn't leave the game, all he did was activate a shield against being messed with. And we know who does that.

Like, usually I like to get a good spread of votes around. If I'd started the game D1 I would have, but really Roden is the most obvscum I've seen in a long time and people just need to see this.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 06:38:26 pm
NQT why are you still trying to shade me and scum case me when I've already claimed Vig? I get resolved tonight. Also why are you trying to claim a meta read on me? I'm pretty sure we've never played together before.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 06:39:54 pm
Wait when did Max get confirmed to not be a Cop?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 28, 2022, 06:41:42 pm
Oops, I forgot to replace Knightwing in the vote count! Fixed.

Vote Count
------------------------
notquitethere - 2 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363054#msg8363054), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363065#msg8363065),
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362860#msg8362860),
Roden - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362477#msg8362477),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 4 - 4maskwolf, EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363044#msg8363044), ToonyMan, TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362769#msg8362769),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~49 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 28, 2022, 06:41:52 pm
@4maskwolf: Please clarify - Did you start with an item that you gave to Jim, then get an item from Tric's death that you plan to use tonight?
Could you have used your initial item yourself?
It was my item I got from Vector's death.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2022, 06:44:25 pm
NQT why are you still trying to shade me and scum case me when I've already claimed Vig? I get resolved tonight. Also why are you trying to claim a meta read on me? I'm pretty sure we've never played together before.
Because you are scum? How are you going to be resolved? Mafia aren't going to kill their own teammate. Or do you think there's a real vig?

Wait when did Max get confirmed to not be a Cop?
Hmm, it's quite late here and maybe I mixed up Max and Euchre?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 28, 2022, 06:47:47 pm
- Why are people taking Max at face value??? People were convinced he was a cop... when he isn't. So...?
Um. Why do you think that, exactly?
Quote
- Even if we do think Max is town, how is three millers a reasonable spread while somehow two town trackers is beyond the pale???
Because "miller" isn't something you do, it's an attachment.
Quote
- Why do people think this is 100% town!Tric, as if being self absorbed was a town-only trait?
Because we've seen Tric as mafia. This may be hard for someone who has only seen town Tric to believe, but it's kind of... completely the opposite in every way? Sure, he could be faking, but it's hard to convincingly fake naivety.

Unrelated followup: I can forgive some, but I remember playing with you when I was here the first time before I spent a year not... uh, quite here, so I really think you ought to know me better than that.

Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2022, 06:49:59 pm
OK, now I'm out of WoT megaposting hell. My biggest questions for people who don't want to parse all the above:

- Why are people taking Max at face value??? People were convinced he was a cop... when he isn't. So...?

BUT HE IS????????

HE SOFTCLAIMED A TOWN RESULT ON TOONYMAN SOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEWHERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362511#msg8362511).

AND ALSO HINTED (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8360761#msg8360761) AT HAVING SOME SORT OF ROLE THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED BY MILLER CLAIMS.

- Why do people think this is 100% town!Tric, as if being self absorbed was a town-only trait?

I FEEL LIKE THIS IS PRETTY CONSISTENT WITH HIS TOWN META. DO YOU KNOW A GAME WHERE HE WAS SCUM WHERE HE WAS THIS HYPERFOCUSED ON THE GREATNESS OF HIS ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE ROLE OMG ROLE?

Ok, but I'm still gonna Vig there.

ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE TO?

NQT why are you still trying to shade me and scum case me when I've already claimed Vig? I get resolved tonight. Also why are you trying to claim a meta read on me? I'm pretty sure we've never played together before.

SUSPECTING PEOPLE!?

IN A GAME OF MAFIA!?!?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 06:59:26 pm
NQT why are you still trying to shade me and scum case me when I've already claimed Vig? I get resolved tonight. Also why are you trying to claim a meta read on me? I'm pretty sure we've never played together before.
Because you are scum? How are you going to be resolved? Mafia aren't going to kill their own teammate. Or do you think there's a real vig?

Wait when did Max get confirmed to not be a Cop?
Hmm, it's quite late here and maybe I mixed up Max and Euchre?
What do you mean "how"...? If I'm fake claiming then the real Vig counter claims by shooting me tonight. If there are no Vigs at all then when two people don't flip tonight it'll be obvious I'm lying. Unless of course a Roleblocker exists, but Jack claimed Tracker and can confirm if I successfully target the person I'm claiming to Vig. All of my bases are covered that prove my innocence.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2022, 07:01:57 pm
Wait wait no I'm an idiot. I mixed up Max's claim with Euchre's. This is why you don't post after midnight. Ignore that (though obviously mafia can and do fakeclaim being cops all the god damn time so I'm not sure why people would just go, yeah, seems legit).

As for Tric acting town by being all about the kewl powers... I get the argument, I really do! I just don't think I'd stake the whole game on it, like say he's 100% the one. He's not cleared for me, but he's not literally obvscum like Roden.

Anyway, now I sleep.

ppe: Roden, this is a role bleeding madness blooming game, there are literally infinite reasons why a strict process of elimination based on vigilante mathematics is impossible. Pull the other one.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2022, 07:07:41 pm
@Roden: NQT's is shading you because they is on the chopping block.  Jim's "NOT 4MASKWOLF" pretty much puts the focus on NQT, so they really need someone else to get lynched. It makes them scummy for doing it, and your inability to comprehend this is either good acting on your part or further proof of your townness.

NQT why are you still trying to shade me and scum case me when I've already claimed Vig? I get resolved tonight. Also why are you trying to claim a meta read on me? I'm pretty sure we've never played together before.
Because you are scum? How are you going to be resolved? Mafia aren't going to kill their own teammate. Or do you think there's a real vig?

Wait when did Max get confirmed to not be a Cop?
Hmm, it's quite late here and maybe I mixed up Max and Euchre?
What do you mean "how"...? If I'm fake claiming then the real Vig counter claims by shooting me tonight. If there are no Vigs at all then when two people don't flip tonight it'll be obvious I'm lying. Unless of course a Roleblocker exists, but Jack claimed Tracker and can confirm if I successfully target the person I'm claiming to Vig. All of my bases are covered that prove my innocence.
I guess I can track you.  It is not as ironclad as you think, but there again, town!Roden logic.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 07:09:09 pm
NQT: "I don't want to stake the game on Tric being town read by everyone, he could be scum"

Also NQT: "anyway we should launch the Cop and Vig claims"

Ok lol
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 07:20:52 pm
@Roden: NQT's is shading you because they is on the chopping block.  Jim's "NOT 4MASKWOLF" pretty much puts the focus on NQT, so they really need someone else to get lynched. It makes them scummy for doing it, and your inability to comprehend this is either good acting on your part or further proof of your townness.

NQT why are you still trying to shade me and scum case me when I've already claimed Vig? I get resolved tonight. Also why are you trying to claim a meta read on me? I'm pretty sure we've never played together before.
Because you are scum? How are you going to be resolved? Mafia aren't going to kill their own teammate. Or do you think there's a real vig?

Wait when did Max get confirmed to not be a Cop?
Hmm, it's quite late here and maybe I mixed up Max and Euchre?
What do you mean "how"...? If I'm fake claiming then the real Vig counter claims by shooting me tonight. If there are no Vigs at all then when two people don't flip tonight it'll be obvious I'm lying. Unless of course a Roleblocker exists, but Jack claimed Tracker and can confirm if I successfully target the person I'm claiming to Vig. All of my bases are covered that prove my innocence.
I guess I can track you.  It is not as ironclad as you think, but there again, town!Roden logic.
No I understand what they're doing, I just don't get why they're trying to attack people with confirmable roles. "Role madness" is their only reason given, but uh mafia isn't getting a Vig shot in a 9 player BYOR, especially one that was labeled as "Simple". I feel like they should know this, given their experience and reputation. If they were going to attack anyone, I feel like it should've been Toony or Jim since those would be actually feasible pushes, but maybe that's just my perspective.

I know the Tracker plan isn't quite ironclad, but the mafia team can't block both of us. So either my Vig succeeds or your Track succeeds, and I'm proven to be telling the truth regardless of which happens.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 28, 2022, 07:35:20 pm
Ok, but I'm still gonna Vig there.

ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE TO?
I mean, who else is there to target?

Tric is obvtown. Jack is obvtown. Max claimed Cop. Toony got inno'd. NQT is getting launched into orbit. And I assume you don't want to get Vig'd.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2022, 11:18:43 pm
Sigh, this game doesn't make sense to me if 4mask is town. Like, at all, but I guess I'll listen to Jim.

I feel bad for NQT, they're big posting but they're in a tough replacement spot that I've been before myself historically. I think their analysis posts sound really robotic and fake, but I know they spent at least an hour or two on them.

Roden is absolutely convinced they can vig someone tonight if they aren't blocked and I believe they definitely can, which implies heavily they're town.

NQT and Max being mafia together makes absolutely no sense to me, but it's where everything points to for me if 4mask is town. Web confirmed this game has 2 guilty parties, however simple it is not.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2022, 11:33:36 pm
To note: I believe strongly that 4mask tried to kill someone last night, they used their other action to give Jim the Vector item. This could be because 4mask is partners with Jim, although I much prefer 4mask's demise first in any case.

You could just as well speculate that Jack is partners with Max, and Jack tried to kill last night. I think the only players that were likely killers last night would be 4mask or Jack. However, I believe 4mask being mafia fits better than Jack being mafia. If we lynched 4mask this would make things simple, because Roden could shoot Jack if 4mask is town, but Jim doesn't want simple.

Roden, I strongly encourage shooting 4mask tonight if we're not voting them off. I think they're the best vig shot by a mile, who else does Roden shoot if we lynch NQT?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 29, 2022, 04:58:45 am
I can't believe people are taking Roden's claim at face value. As if one-shot double killer mafia were impossible or a million things which could be claimed to block or redirect. Toony and Jim's claimed powers even could disrupt a vig. But sure, I would like to see it! Because I don't believe it for one instance.

Maximum Spin do you really think Roden is town in this spot? He's buddying you hard here.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 29, 2022, 05:15:19 am
I can't believe NQT starts all their posts with "I can't believe.."  :P

Note: I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  That is all the information that I have on Max.  I have no way of knowing if Max performed a Cop inspection, or something else.  Mafia also know who are all the town players, so they can fake cop.

HOWEVER, nobody has counter claimed Cop in any way shape or form.  We also have allegedly three millers.  So I'm inclined to think Max is our Town Cop.

@Max: Why did you investigate Toonyman?

Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 29, 2022, 07:49:07 am
Maximum Spin do you really think Roden is town in this spot? He's buddying you hard here.
I haven't expressed an opinion one way or the other...
@Max: Why did you investigate Toonyman?
I don't really remember what I had thought at the time, but if I were back at the end of d1 now and decided to investigate Toony, it would be because he a) never claimed anything that would compromise an investigation, b) seemed likely to live through the night so that it wouldn't be a waste of time, and c) might plausibly have been mafia, especially since he seemed to me to be jumping to a lot of shaky meta conclusions that didn't necessarily hold up. Not that that's alignment-indicative for anyone here necessarily. Finally, if he did turn out to be town, I wanted to, well, try to keep him from blowing the game by locking onto the wrong players.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 29, 2022, 09:38:06 am
Hm, do you think that Toony's behavior might have encouraged you to inspect him?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 29, 2022, 10:00:40 am
Hm, do you think that Toony's behavior might have encouraged you to inspect him?
No, except possibly in the sense where "behavior" means "the normal way he acts in general, not in this game specifically". In particular, during the day when I was looking at his behavior, I had specifically thought that he might be a godfather and thus a waste of an investigation.

Fundamentally, the problem with both your questions is that there wasn't much of a reason at all, I just woke up, went to my computer, saw day had ended, and thought "I guess I need to pick a target now, uhhh, how about ToonyMan". I'm sure I had some kind of reasoning at the time, but A) I don't remember it and B) it clearly wasn't very good since I had previously suspected him of being a godfather anyway.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on March 29, 2022, 03:35:47 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
notquitethere - 2 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363054#msg8363054), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363065#msg8363065),
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362860#msg8362860),
Maximum Spin - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363162#msg8363162),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 4 - 4maskwolf, EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363044#msg8363044), ToonyMan, TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362769#msg8362769),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~28 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 29, 2022, 03:38:00 pm
TricMagic: Who do you like more, Jim or EuchreJack?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2022, 04:40:01 pm
4maskwolf
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2022, 05:22:19 pm
I can't believe people are taking Roden's claim at face value.
Roden gives up his abilities to whoever kills him, whether it's via hammer or getting killed.

He also has a one-shot vig.

Is Roden mafia if these facts are true? Almost certainly not.

1. As a town role, this is a role that the mafia want to kill Roden for so they can have access to his one-shot vig and get an extra kill. If Roden got lynched on D1 there wouldn't even be anything Roden could do about it.
2. As a mafia role, this is a role that...gives mafia extra power and one that they'd want to spend as soon as possible so that town didn't accidently get it.

Mafia!Roden would have fired on N1, as there's no telling what will happen and it's better to get the 2 kills now and not risk a town player getting a vig shot if they hammer Roden, among other things. Just because Tric used their ability to prevent deaths doesn't mean the one-shot wouldn't get wasted, I think. Roden wouldn't be able to vig again if they blew their one-shot last night, which they clearly didn't based on their behavior. This means Roden still has his one-shot vig and didn't use it on N1.

@Webadict:
If a one-shot is used, but the action fails, does the one-shot still become spent? What are the cases here?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2022, 05:27:15 pm
Maximum Spin do you really think Roden is town in this spot? He's buddying you hard here.
Do you believe Max is a cop? What is the point of this vote? You're accusing Roden of buddying Max, but then vote Max?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 29, 2022, 05:31:20 pm
@Webadict:
If a one-shot is used, but the action fails, does the one-shot still become spent? What are the cases here?
Typically, no, but that's ignoring all edge cases. I'd require more specific information to answer anything else.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2022, 05:34:33 pm
@Webadict:
If a one-shot is used, but the action fails, does the one-shot still become spent? What are the cases here?
Typically, no, but that's ignoring all edge cases. I'd require more specific information to answer anything else.

Does a one-shot get spent if the player is role-blocked?

Does a one-shot get spent if the action fails on the target? For example, if a player used a one-shot vig on a bulletproof player.

Does a one-shot get spent if the action succeeds, but because of outside forces the end result doesn't occur? For example, if a player used a one-shot vig on someone, but another player made getting killed impossible for that night.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 29, 2022, 05:35:19 pm
4maskwolf, with the addendum that if they are town and I get murdered tonight, it's probably Toony/Max.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 29, 2022, 05:42:57 pm
@Webadict:
If a one-shot is used, but the action fails, does the one-shot still become spent? What are the cases here?
Typically, no, but that's ignoring all edge cases. I'd require more specific information to answer anything else.

Does a one-shot get spent if the player is role-blocked?

Does a one-shot get spent if the action fails on the target? For example, if a player used a one-shot vig on a bulletproof player.

Does a one-shot get spent if the action succeeds, but because of outside forces the end result doesn't occur? For example, if a player used a one-shot vig on someone, but another player made getting killed impossible for that night.
1. No. Roleblocking would not allow the Player to perform the Action.
2. In the case of an Action failure, no. However, the specific case you mentioned may not necessarily be an Action failure. Bulletproofs that cause Kill Actions to fail, specifically, would indeed result in the one-shot Kill being refunded.
3. Yes. The Action succeeded, even if the target wasn't killed.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on March 29, 2022, 09:52:48 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 3 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362860#msg8362860), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363232#msg8363232), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363249#msg8363249),
notquitethere - 2 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363054#msg8363054), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363065#msg8363065),
Maximum Spin - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363162#msg8363162),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - 4maskwolf, EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363044#msg8363044),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (22 hours and 7 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 29, 2022, 11:34:03 pm
I'M NOT A FAN OF HOW RODEN IS REACTING TO NOTQUITETHERE'S PRESSURE BUT IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY IF HE'S BREAKING TOWN OR BREAKING SCUM BECAUSE OF IT. I THINK BACK TO WARPLANT MAFIA AND RODEN'S REACTIONS TO TOONYMAN'S FAKECLAIM AND HOW INDIGNANT RODEN WAS AT THE SITUATION. I THINK I SEE A BIT OF THAT HERE SO I STILL THINK I STICK TO NOTQUITETHERE.

I DON'T THINK NQT AND RODEN WOULD BE ON A TEAM BASED ON HOW THEY'RE ACTING AND THE ACRIMONY BEING EXPRESSED.

IF NOTQUITETHERE IS SCUM, THEN HE COULD BE PARTNERS WITH HMMMMMMMMMMMM
IF RODEN IS SCUM, THEN HE COULD BE PARTNERS WITH HRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

PARTNERS COULD BE EUCHREJACK, MAXIMUM SPIN, OR 4MASKWOLF, BUT EVEN IF ANY OF THESE FIVE PLAYERS FLIP I DON'T SEE IT BETRAYING THEIR PARTNER.

Vote Count
4maskwolf - 3 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362860#msg8362860), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363232#msg8363232), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363249#msg8363249),


NOT EXACTLY THRILLED WITH THIS TURN OF EVENTS.

I'LL MENTION SOMETHING AND MAYBE IT WILL AFFECT THE CALCULUS OF YOUR VOTES SOME. I WILL BE TARGETING 4MASKWOLF WITH MY REDIRECT AND WATCH AGAIN TONIGHT BECAUSE MY ABILITY TO REDIRECT IS SOMETHING I ACTIVATED ON DAY 1 AND LASTS AS LONG AS THE TARGET IS ALIVE. I ALSO HAVE THE CHOICE TO WATCH OR FOLLOW 4MASKWOLF. SO IF 4MASKWOLF WANTS TO DO ANYTHING WOLFY DURING NIGHT 2 HE HAS TO RISK ME KNOWING ABOUT IT. SINCE ALL (ACTUALLY MOST) ACTIONS TARGETING ME REDIRECT TO 4MASKWOLF IF HE'S SCUM HE DOESN'T HAVE AN EASY WAY OF DEALING WITH ME, AND HE COULD DIRECTLY TARGET ME WITH A NIGHT KILL BUT THEN THAT WOULD REVEAL PRETTY QUICKLY WHO KILLED ME.

IF YOU GUYS DECIDE NOT TO LYNCH 4MASKWOLF, I WILL BE WATCHING HIM DURING NIGHT 2.

I'M NOT PLANNING ON HOPPING ON THE WAGON BUT I AM CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THE VOTES STACK UP, ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO PLAYERS WHO VOTED HIM PREVIOUSLY AND PLAYERS WHO ARE DEFINITELY POSITIVELY GOING TO SHOOT 4MASKWOLF DURING NIGHT 2.

Is Roden mafia if these facts are true? Almost certainly not.

I CAN'T REMEMBER IF I SAID IT IN THIS GAME YET BUT I'VE CERTAINLY THOUGHT IT MULTIPLE TIMES.

MAKING MECHANICAL ASSUMPTIONS IS VERY DANGEROUS IN A WEBADICT GAME.

IS MAFIA HAVING A ONE SHOT VIG KILL THAT OUTRAGEOUS IN A GAME WHERE ONE PLAYER HAS A ONE SHOT PROTECT ON EVERYBODY? AS FOR WHY MAFIA WITH A ONE SHOT VIG KILL MIGHT HOLD ON TO IT RATHER THAN USE IT IMMEDIATELY, MAYBE THEY KEEP IT AND TURN LYLO INTO AN INSTANT WIN INSTEAD.

I DON'T THINK IT'S SAFE TO TOWN READ RODEN BASED ON ROLE ASSUMPTIONS LIKE THIS.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 29, 2022, 11:40:54 pm
I'M NOT PLANNING ON HOPPING ON THE WAGON BUT I AM CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THE VOTES STACK UP, ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO PLAYERS WHO VOTED HIM PREVIOUSLY AND PLAYERS WHO ARE DEFINITELY POSITIVELY GOING TO SHOOT 4MASKWOLF DURING NIGHT 2.

I'M LOOKING AT YOU EUCHREJACK AND RODEN

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 29, 2022, 11:51:24 pm
I'm still voting NQT since it's my preferred vote. Idk who I'm supposed to Vig if not 4mask though. I'm going to need a viable second option if you want to keep him alive Jim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2022, 11:51:48 pm
I'm fairly convinced Webadict would not give mafia a free vig shot, they'd have to at least work for it. I've made hissy fits about mafia recruiting vigs which I'm sure haven't gone unnoticed. Under this context seems more reasonable.

It's been confirmed now more or less that Roden didn't attempt to fire it last night, so at least that much is true. Maybe mafia!Roden holds onto the shot, but now he's being forced to fire tonight either way, ruining the ability to use it for lylo.

I understand more why'd you want 4mask alive since you have him on a leash, but I don't like this scenario because it loses to exactly you and 4mask being mafia together, which I consider a small possibility.

You don't seem extremely upset if 4mask dies plus I townread you, but I find 4mask extremely suspicious.

I still think the mafia are just 4mask and NQT.

I'm not sure what you can say for me to vote NQT instead though.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2022, 11:54:23 pm
That previous post was directed at Jim.

Also if Roden is mafia it's not with NQT or he'd want to vote 4mask instead here. Don't really need to mind game anything there.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 12:12:56 am
I'm still voting NQT since it's my preferred vote. Idk who I'm supposed to Vig if not 4mask though. I'm going to need a viable second option if you want to keep him alive Jim.
If NQT flips town I'm pretty lost, 4mask would be the best choice but it still leaves me uncomfortable to some things.
If NQT flips mafia I'd shoot 4mask. This won't whiff.

If 4mask flips town then I would shoot Jack actually, if that's also a whiff then look into NQT.
If 4mask flips mafia I would shoot NQT and if that's a whiff we'd look at Jim and go from there.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 12:48:22 am
I'm still voting NQT since it's my preferred vote. Idk who I'm supposed to Vig if not 4mask though. I'm going to need a viable second option if you want to keep him alive Jim.

I GUESS I CAN'T ASK YOU TO SHOOT YOURSELF.

I'LL DO THE SAME THING TOONY DID.

NQT FLIPS TOWN, I SHOOT MAXIMUM SPIN.
NQT FLIPS SCUM, I ACTUALLY PROBABLY SHOOT 4MASKWOLF HERE.
4MASKWOLF FLIPS TOWN, I SHOOT NQT.
4MASKWOLF FLIPS SCUM, I SHOOT NQT OR MAXIMUM SPIN.

IF NQT DIES, TOWN OR SCUM, DO YOU SHOOT 4MASKWOLF?

You don't seem extremely upset if 4mask dies plus I townread you, but I find 4mask extremely suspicious.

I'M WEAK TO PARANOIA, ESPECIALLY IN THIS GAME WHERE I'M FINDING IT DIFFICULT TO GET TRACTION ON WHO THE SCUM TEAM ACTUALLY IS.

I still think the mafia are just 4mask and NQT.

I'm not sure what you can say for me to vote NQT instead though.

PRETTY PLEASE?

IT'D BE FUNNY IF IT IS NQT AND 4MASKWOLF SINCE IF NQT DIES THEN 4MASKWOLF HAS TO GET THROUGH A NIGHT 2 UNDER REALLY TERRIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES?

I DUNNO MAN.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 12:53:08 am
There's a massive problem if me/NQT/4mask all flip town. I won't be around to deal with it unless the mafia team really want to keep me around for a worst case scenario ELO. But even then, mafia don't have any other viable NK targets. I'm fairly certain if anyone besides me dies tonight, it rules out most potential teams. I'm pretty sure they want to kill Tric if possible, but Toony has him covered with the bus swapping.

Worst case scenario where me/NQT/4mask all flip town:
-If Jack or Jim die and flip town before a 5p ELO, the team is just Max/Toony.
-Vice versa if one of Max or Toony die and flip town.

So...I think this game should be solved no matter what happens, right? Even ignoring potential mech solves, nobody else seems like they could be partnered from interactions. I think we're only fucked if Toony is a Bulletproof Godfather Bus Driver or something equally bonkers like that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 12:56:14 am
I'm still voting NQT since it's my preferred vote. Idk who I'm supposed to Vig if not 4mask though. I'm going to need a viable second option if you want to keep him alive Jim.

I GUESS I CAN'T ASK YOU TO SHOOT YOURSELF.

I'LL DO THE SAME THING TOONY DID.

NQT FLIPS TOWN, I SHOOT MAXIMUM SPIN.
NQT FLIPS SCUM, I ACTUALLY PROBABLY SHOOT 4MASKWOLF HERE.
4MASKWOLF FLIPS TOWN, I SHOOT NQT.
4MASKWOLF FLIPS SCUM, I SHOOT NQT OR MAXIMUM SPIN.

IF NQT DIES, TOWN OR SCUM, DO YOU SHOOT 4MASKWOLF?

You don't seem extremely upset if 4mask dies plus I townread you, but I find 4mask extremely suspicious.

I'M WEAK TO PARANOIA, ESPECIALLY IN THIS GAME WHERE I'M FINDING IT DIFFICULT TO GET TRACTION ON WHO THE SCUM TEAM ACTUALLY IS.

I still think the mafia are just 4mask and NQT.

I'm not sure what you can say for me to vote NQT instead though.

PRETTY PLEASE?

IT'D BE FUNNY IF IT IS NQT AND 4MASKWOLF SINCE IF NQT DIES THEN 4MASKWOLF HAS TO GET THROUGH A NIGHT 2 UNDER REALLY TERRIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES?

I DUNNO MAN.
Max is our Cop though. I'd do it if I was a Loyal Vig, but that seems like such a massive risk. I think I want to hear from 4mask and Max about this. I especially want to know who Max intends to target tonight.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 01:17:05 am
Max is our Cop though. I'd do it if I was a Loyal Vig, but that seems like such a massive risk. I think I want to hear from 4mask and Max about this. I especially want to know who Max intends to target tonight.

MAXIMUM SPIN IS RUNNING OUT OF UTILITY FOR BEING A COP. CONSIDER HIS OPTIONS:

4MASKWOLF
EUCHREJACK - MILLER/UNTARGETABLE
JIM GROOVESTER - MILLER
NOTQUITETHERE
RODEN - MILLER
TOONYMAN - N1 TOWN
TRICMAGIC - OBVTOWN

THE TWO MEANINGFUL REMAINING OPTIONS ARE NOTQUITETHERE AND 4MASKWOLF WHO EVERYBODY WANTS TO SOLVE SOON ANYWAY.

I MEAN MAYBE HE DOESN'T THINK TRICMAGIC IS OBVTOWN, BUT REGARDLESS HE'S RUNNING OUT OF STUFF TO DO.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 02:42:24 am
Max is our Cop though. I'd do it if I was a Loyal Vig, but that seems like such a massive risk. I think I want to hear from 4mask and Max about this. I especially want to know who Max intends to target tonight.

MAXIMUM SPIN IS RUNNING OUT OF UTILITY FOR BEING A COP. CONSIDER HIS OPTIONS:

4MASKWOLF
EUCHREJACK - MILLER/UNTARGETABLE
JIM GROOVESTER - MILLER
NOTQUITETHERE
RODEN - MILLER
TOONYMAN - N1 TOWN
TRICMAGIC - OBVTOWN

THE TWO MEANINGFUL REMAINING OPTIONS ARE NOTQUITETHERE AND 4MASKWOLF WHO EVERYBODY WANTS TO SOLVE SOON ANYWAY.

I MEAN MAYBE HE DOESN'T THINK TRICMAGIC IS OBVTOWN, BUT REGARDLESS HE'S RUNNING OUT OF STUFF TO DO.
Not as much as you think.
And don't forget that I can get roles too. Not super useful, but a little useful, and once I get someone's role I can get the alignment for free later too.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 02:58:17 am
I don't like assertions of the form "if X is town, the team is Y and Z" unless I made them, because it reads like setting up your next two mislynches. I like them even less when I am Y.

Look, ToonyMan is maybe a godfather, but I'm definitely not teamed with him. I wouldn't be distancing so hard to say "actually I'm not convinced my result was even right, maybe he's just a godfather" FROM THE START if I was, probably.

... you know, I think we have to lynch a miller today. Unvote.
If not, it will be impossible to figure out the true answer if we lynch town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 03:37:40 am
I'm still voting NQT since it's my preferred vote. Idk who I'm supposed to Vig if not 4mask though. I'm going to need a viable second option if you want to keep him alive Jim.
If NQT flips town I'm pretty lost, 4mask would be the best choice but it still leaves me uncomfortable to some things.
If NQT flips mafia I'd shoot 4mask. This won't whiff.

If 4mask flips town then I would shoot Jack actually, if that's also a whiff then look into NQT.
If 4mask flips mafia I would shoot NQT and if that's a whiff we'd look at Jim and go from there.

+1 to what Max just said.

@Toonyman: Why does 4maskwolf being town mean that I'm mafia?
I'm actually leaning towards 4maskwolf being town, and I'm town, so I would like to know where this is coming from.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 03:38:29 am
I'M NOT PLANNING ON HOPPING ON THE WAGON BUT I AM CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THE VOTES STACK UP, ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO PLAYERS WHO VOTED HIM PREVIOUSLY AND PLAYERS WHO ARE DEFINITELY POSITIVELY GOING TO SHOOT 4MASKWOLF DURING NIGHT 2.

I'M LOOKING AT YOU EUCHREJACK AND RODEN

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO
Hi ChickenJim
Meet ChickenJack
(not comfortable voting right now)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 03:44:21 am
I'll add another of those evil IF statements:

If NQT flips town, I'd shoot Toonyman

Toony's throwing shade on NQT yet votes 4maskwolf.  Toony seems to suspect NQT yet prefers to vote 4maskwolf.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 04:22:10 am
If Toony is mafia, then from my perspective it's almost certainly with a miller claim, since I don't believe there are four alignment-hiding abilities. Of course others will have to take me on faith that I have a town inspect on him, but I don't know how anyone can think I am possibly not town here. Especially if you are one of the millers: IF YOU ARE A MILLER THERE IS DEFINITELY A COP, GENIUS.
Now, the other possibility is maybe I got redirected and don't know it. Since it would have to have been a mafia redirect (town OUGHT to have admitted it so that the problem could be cleared up), it wouldn't be so hard to look for. Unfortunately, nobody's actions strike me as especially confirmable last night.

I don't have a good feeling for whether there are third-parties but the same basic calculus applies to a third-party ToonyMan except that there are then TWO outstanding mafia at least one of whom is still either a miller claim or a redirector (or ToonyMan is the one who redirected me).

For some reason a few people seem not to be town-reading me here, but I am definitely willing to agree to lynch Roden if I get to hammer. Anyone who tried to snipe the hammer would definitely be mafia, but that probably only happens if Roden is town or mafia-but-not-lying-about-his-role.

On the other hand, I feel good about lynching Jim because he claims to be a miller but thinks it's possible that there's no cop. Plus, he suggests that my usefulness is running out which implies that he thinks/hopes I can't confirm him for real. "Sure, maybe we accidentally lynch the cop but it's not like we need a cop anymore, right?" just seems a bit too dumb for Jim to have thought up.

Don't get me wrong, I could lynch Jack too for sure. I'm uncommitted, or I would have voted instead of unvoted. But I think the above are solid points.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 04:24:55 am
I'm sorry, why are you even considering lynching me or Jack when Jack is obvtown and I made it clear I didn't want to Vig you?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:32:53 am
I think Max is building to a case on Jim by considering all the claimed Millers as suspects.
It is a very Cop thing to do.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 04:38:42 am
I'm sorry, why are you even considering lynching me or Jack when Jack is obvtown and I made it clear I didn't want to Vig you?
Solely because, if you are town, we don't actually lose any power doing so if town hammers, and it might draw out mafia to hammer for the power, if they're dumb enough.

I don't agree that Jack is obvtown and, while I appreciate that you don't want to vig me, that doesn't actually make me assume you're town, like some kind of reverse OMGUS. :P

Still, Jim looks worst of the three.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 07:11:20 am
We are not voting a miller today.

If 4mask is a whiff I feel like NQT will whiff just as easily. It's basically the same argument. If both are town then I believe the mafia have to be Jack/Max, but they're being pretty high brain about it.

One of the reasons I don't believe this is because 4mask has shown no real desire to push cases on D2, when this was something he did multiple times on D1. This lack of drive could be due to personal reasons, but also maybe because mafia have no options and there's no point. Something that NQT has tried to alleviate.

If I'm a godfather then half the players in this game give bad results to our cop which is pretty twisted.

@Jack:
Because town!4mask is the only one that could have seen the real you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 07:20:13 am
I'll add another of those evil IF statements:

If NQT flips town, I'd shoot Toonyman

Toony's throwing shade on NQT yet votes 4maskwolf.  Toony seems to suspect NQT yet prefers to vote 4maskwolf.
I don't like either. If you think I care which one dies first you're sorely mistaken.

Shooting me means you think I'm godfather or mafia with Max or some crazy redirection occured, so you would have to believe one of those is true.

I strongly suspect Max really is a cop, because his playstyle has been that way since D1. His actual alignment is unclear, but I do not feel comfortable voting Max over NQT or 4mask today. Maybe that is the correct move, but I don't think it's reasonable from our current position.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 07:24:24 am
I think Max is building to a case on Jim by considering all the claimed Millers as suspects.
It is a very Cop thing to do.
????
???????
???
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 07:28:29 am
PRETTY PLEASE?
Hrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm

No.

4mask needs to give reads or something man.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 07:56:45 am
I strongly suspect Max really is a cop, because his playstyle has been that way since D1. His actual alignment is unclear
Okay, even if I'm a mafia cop - what, it could happen - the mafia know who they are and aren't, so IN WHAT UNIVERSE ARE THERE SUPPOSED TO BE THREE MILLERS WITH NOBODY WHO WILL EVER NOTICE?

So what, third-party cop in this game where there has never been any evidence of third-parties? Okay, granted, I've been feeling this whole time like there is probably at least one third party out there, but even if that's the case, uh... why would it matter? I mean grant me that I'm clearly not a mally or I would have kept my results to my damn self; so I still have the incentive to out mafia correctly; so in what situation would you want to kill your only begotten cop BEFORE finding the mafia? Fine, fine, I know the next clause of your sentence was that you wouldn't vote for me, but the fact that my townness is even being debated is insane to me and makes me very suspicious of the individuals doing the debating.

We are only down one on day 2, it shouldn't be this chaotic.
If I'm a godfather then half the players in this game give bad results to our cop which is pretty twisted.
Which is why I clearly stated that if you are then one or more of the millers are fake.


Webadict: If a player is redirected onto himself with a non-self-targetable action, does the action still proceed? In particular, if a player uses a protect action on a target which is swapped with the protecting player, does that player successfully protect himself?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 08:01:58 am
I don't like assertions of the form "if X is town, the team is Y and Z" unless I made them, because it reads like setting up your next two mislynches. I like them even less when I am Y.

Look, ToonyMan is maybe a godfather, but I'm definitely not teamed with him. I wouldn't be distancing so hard to say "actually I'm not convinced my result was even right, maybe he's just a godfather" FROM THE START if I was, probably.

... you know, I think we have to lynch a miller today. Unvote.
If not, it will be impossible to figure out the true answer if we lynch town.
Looks like you're starting early. Better than last minute votechange, but not be much?
That said, you're a role-cop right?
/// Jim being a redirector does not feel good. But I like the idea of 4mask being alive as mafia even less, given whatever item he got is probably pretty strong. There is also the chance they are the mafia team and there was no kill N1. A double-vote item late-game would not be great in mafia hands.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 08:03:52 am
@Max:
There is one mafia at most among Jack/Jim/Roden, do you agree?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 08:04:13 am
That said, you're a role-cop right?
[INCOHERENT HISSING SOUNDS]
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 08:07:18 am
These are the only teams that I can believe exist at this point in time:

4mask/NQT
4mask/Jim
Jack/Max

Tric and Roden are always town.

This is why I can't resist voting 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 30, 2022, 08:11:25 am
Webadict: If a player is redirected onto himself with a non-self-targetable action, does the action still proceed? In particular, if a player uses a protect action on a target which is swapped with the protecting player, does that player successfully protect himself?
Yes.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 08:54:12 am
These are the only teams that I can believe exist at this point in time:

4mask/NQT
4mask/Jim
Jack/Max

Tric and Roden are always town.

This is why I can't resist voting 4mask.

While I understand the simplified version, how about explaining how NQT/Jim can't be a scum team?
Or why NQT or 4mask can't be paired with Max.

Or hell, why Jack/NQT is not viable.  Yes, I understand why Jack/4mask is not a scum team...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 09:14:11 am
Think for five seconds why Jim "guys let's vote NQT instead of 4mask pleeeeaase" Groovester isn't mafia with NQT.

Now think for five minutes why Max isn't mafia with NQT or 4mask. I'll give you a hint: The answer lies within.

Jack, can you possibly guess why Max is the only person you can be mafia with? Go ahead, try it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 11:10:54 am
Think for five seconds why Jim "guys let's vote NQT instead of 4mask pleeeeaase" Groovester isn't mafia with NQT.

Now think for five minutes why Max isn't mafia with NQT or 4mask. I'll give you a hint: The answer lies within.

Jack, can you possibly guess why Max is the only person you can be mafia with? Go ahead, try it.
Upon retrospection, I buy points 1 & 2.
For point 2, Max has mostly committed to lynching NQT or 4mask, or outing as scum whomever survives.  So not scum buddies with them.

Right so point 3:
I tracked Max go to Toonyman. I know this to be true
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Max has committed to lynching NQT or 4mask, or outing as scum the survivor.
Mas has suspected all the miller claims, but softer on myself.
Max was pretty quick to qualify his Innocent inspect on Toonyman with "Unless Godfather".  ScumbuddyMax of Toonyman wouldn't do that

So, my bolstering of Max with an untraceable tracking makes me looks like a possible partner.  I've said before: My role just looks scummy.  There is nothing about it that makes it "look" townie, except that part where I win with town.  What can I say, except:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 11:26:19 am
Pretty much.

I believe both you and Max, which leaves NQT/4mask/Jim.

Of those, Jim isn't with NQT.

I have no strong reasoning for why NQT and 4mask are mafia together beyond POE, but I find multiple things suspicious about 4mask and Jim. This is why I want to vote 4mask instead of NQT, regardless of how Jim feels about it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 01:08:35 pm
PRETTY PLEASE?
Hrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm

No.

4mask needs to give reads or something man.
That requires waking up and actually engaging with people, which isn't something I like to do lmao.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 01:28:06 pm
Blah blah metareads blah blah.

Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?

Nothing Tric says on D2 before his claim gives any indication that he actually redirected the kill. He even says this when he claims:

Mafia on the other hand has EVERY reason not to claim, because they know what happened last night.

So, last night I used my 1-shot to Sacrifice myself and prevent ALL deaths from occurring. Of course, this also strips away my Auto, so I'm now as mortal as anyone else. (This was Priority 1, so couldn't be blocked). So Mafia didn't kill anyone last night as a result of this.
Yes, Tric, indeed they do have every reason not to claim (at least not truthfully), and it sounds like saying so made you realize you should claim so you don't look like a wolf. He also claimed doctor yesterday and claims to still have the doctor ability but also claims to have a full kill redirect one-shot? My role's power level says hahahahahahahahaha no.

This is the post that's been bothering me though:
One issue is, we need to trust trust you to trust you. I don't. More likely you're a counter to the powers around, especially if you can just ignore redirects.
This is said after I claim that the ability I got off of Tric was a valuable one that I wouldn't be claiming, although anyone with half a brain could guess what I got if they assume everything Tric said about their role was true. It's been bugging me because for all the world it looks like a wolf trying to get out in front of bad facts. There's no reason to assume I have a role that gives me counter stuff, especially when Jim has already indicated I gave him a powerful townsided ability through our conversations, and yet Tric says it anyway.

So, Tric, what's your REAL MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROOOOOOOOOOLE? Because it's obvious to me you're not a doctor.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 01:48:19 pm

Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?
Is this same level of sureness that says you redpeek'd someone?

As for my claim, wouldn't you know based upon what you got when I died? It sounds like you're looking to break apart what town knows and slip the noose.

You get things themed on the people who died. You don't give anything that says anything about my role's theme. Given Vector and I are the only ones to have died, you must have given Jim an item themed after the Vote Count. It being pretty townsided is obvious, given Vote Count. However, it's also extremely powerful for mafia to have as well. Another thing to note, giving the item makes you seem townie and clears you of the kill last night. But sadly that's an auto as you claimed. When did you claim that though? Was it before or after my reveal?

Major point, it's an auto that allows you to give stuff based on those who have died. No priority apparently, it just shows up ignoring everything else. However, I do not think you yourself are capable of using the items without some drawback. Or that's a theory anyway.

You claim I am not a doctor. that's fine. It's not the base you need to tear down. Instead, you need to tear down my revival, and determine it to be false, while proving that someone shot me last night. And you need to do all that while discrediting my day 1 setup. Good luck with that.  (https://www.nevicar.com/imgs/wowee.png)

Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:10:24 pm
Good use of wowee, I approve.

I never said you didn't revive lmao, you yourself said D1 you would revive on death (assuming you weren't launched D1) and I take that at face value considering, y'know, you revived.

There's a lot of things I have no incentive to claim as a wolf this game, the fact that distributing items is a free action being chief among them. It exists so that I can use an item and give one away on the same night, but also, obviously, makes it appear like I could perform the mafia kill. Something I have, myself, acknowledged.

There's already a sensible chain of events that explains how you died last night. Prior to your claim that's actually how I thought you died, someone tried to kill Jim and because of Jim and Toony fuckery it redirected onto you.

The fact that you haven't figured out what I got off of you tells me everything I need to know about your "role". If you were what you said you'd literally already have figured out what ability that I got. The fact that you were concerned I would get a counter-ability tells me you're not what you said you were and were trying to get out ahead of bad facts should I choose to claim what I got from you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:14:11 pm
We also have hard evidence that things targeting Jim did, in fact, get directed to you, since Toony tried to remove Jim's miller auto but neither Jim nor I got our auto's wiped, while you claimed to lose your autos.

I'm extremely skeptical that another townie was given both a revive and a kill-only lightning rod effect, unless Toonyman is a wolf (which is basically impossible). The ability to hard-deny the wolves one of their nightkills without effort isn't something that shows up in a nine-player game.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 02:21:52 pm
Are you cool with Roden shooting Tric if you flip town? Is Jack still a concern?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:25:35 pm
Are you cool with Roden shooting Tric if you flip town? Is Jack still a concern?
Yes, though I'd obviously prefer to flip Tric first. Jack I haven't had a chance to look at yet, I've been really nonpresent these past few days and the only thing that stuck out in my mind when skimming over D2 was Tric's downright bizarre behavior around my claim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:26:27 pm
In particular I'm not sure what the mech around Jack is because keeping track of the mech this game has been complicated.

Mind filling me in on what Jack's mech is, I'm in class so won't be able to do a deep dive for a couple hours?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 02:28:31 pm
Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?

I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT TRICMAGIC (BY WATCHING YOU) DURING N1.

IF I'M WATCHING SOMEBODY AND THEY GET REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THEM.

FEASIBLY IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE EVENTUAL NIGHT KILL TARGET THEN IT WAS TOONYMAN OR TRICMAGIC WHO DID IT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 02:30:33 pm
Why does mafia!Tric give up their N1 kill? Just for towncred? There's little point in that considering that players such as myself, Jim, Roden, and Max all hardread Tric as town by EOD1.

PPE:
Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?

I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT TRICMAGIC (BY WATCHING YOU) DURING N1.

IF I'M WATCHING SOMEBODY AND THEY GET REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THEM.

FEASIBLY IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE EVENTUAL NIGHT KILL TARGET THEN IT WAS TOONYMAN OR TRICMAGIC WHO DID IT.
Are you implying that Tric tried to kill last night and...killed himself?

Hahahahaha
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 02:31:27 pm
Unvote for now...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:31:31 pm
Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?

I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT TRICMAGIC (BY WATCHING YOU) DURING N1.

IF I'M WATCHING SOMEBODY AND THEY GET REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THEM.

FEASIBLY IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE EVENTUAL NIGHT KILL TARGET THEN IT WAS TOONYMAN OR TRICMAGIC WHO DID IT.
I wouldn't be surprised if Tricmagic was the designated "mafia killing" role that web likes to put into his games.

But that is a good point, as I said I'm having trouble keeping track of all the mech because so much happened last night.

Why does mafia!Tric give up their N1 kill? Just for towncred? There's little point in that considering that players such as myself, Jim, Roden, and Max all hardread Tric as town by EOD1.

PPE:
Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?

I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT TRICMAGIC (BY WATCHING YOU) DURING N1.

IF I'M WATCHING SOMEBODY AND THEY GET REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THEM.

FEASIBLY IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE EVENTUAL NIGHT KILL TARGET THEN IT WAS TOONYMAN OR TRICMAGIC WHO DID IT.
Are you implying that Tric tried to kill last night and...killed himself?

Hahahahaha
Nothing about anything I said said that Tric gave up the kill? I said that Tric's team tried to kill Jim and it got reflected back onto Tric.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 02:36:36 pm
In particular I'm not sure what the mech around Jack is because keeping track of the mech this game has been complicated.

Mind filling me in on what Jack's mech is, I'm in class so won't be able to do a deep dive for a couple hours?
He keeps saying he's Batman and claimed last today that they tracked Max to me.

PPE:
I think you misunderstand. Jim's theory implies me or Tric killed Tric last night. They wouldn't have given up a kill.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:39:46 pm
In particular I'm not sure what the mech around Jack is because keeping track of the mech this game has been complicated.

Mind filling me in on what Jack's mech is, I'm in class so won't be able to do a deep dive for a couple hours?
He keeps saying he's Batman and claimed last today that they tracked Max to me.
NO I'M SPARTACUS

Interesting. Unless he claimed before Max that's super weak mech, whether or not the specific claim of Batman is accurate.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 02:44:12 pm
SNIP
SNIP
SNIP
SNIP
SNIP

GOOD LORD YOU'D THINK I WAS TRYING TO LYNCH YOU WITH THE WAY YOU'RE REACTING.

I DON'T THINK BEING THIRD OR FOURTH SPOT IN SOMEBODY'S POE IS REALLY ALL THAT MUCH TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING YOU KNOW WHERE THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY CAUSE YOU LEGITIMATE CONCERN.

LIKE YOUR ALIGNMENT.

Are you implying that Tric tried to kill last night and...killed himself?

Hahahahaha

NOT WHAT I'M IMPLYING. JUST BOUNCING OFF 4MASKWOLF'S THEORY THAT TRICMAGIC WAS THE NK TARGET.

I MENTIONED EARLIER IN THE DAY THAT I THINK TRICMAGIC'S CLAIM WAS FISHY FOR MANY OF THE SAME REASONS 4MASKWOLF JUST MENTIONED, BUT I ONLY SAW YOU VISIT HIM DURING NIGHT 1 AND I DON'T THINK YOU DID THE NIGHT KILL SO I ENDED UP DECIDING TO BELIEVE IT.

In particular I'm not sure what the mech around Jack is because keeping track of the mech this game has been complicated.

Mind filling me in on what Jack's mech is, I'm in class so won't be able to do a deep dive for a couple hours?
He keeps saying he's Batman and claimed last today that they tracked Max to me.
NO I'M SPARTACUS

Interesting. Unless he claimed before Max that's super weak mech, whether or not the specific claim of Batman is accurate.

EUCHREJACK WAS THE LAST PERSON TO CLAIM ANYTHING.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:46:20 pm
EUCHREJACK WAS THE LAST PERSON TO CLAIM ANYTHING.
Yeaaaaaaaaaaah I haven't gone over Euchre's D2 stuff yet (still in class) but that alone makes me think he's a wolf, let alone his D1 play. An unconfirmable investigative claimed last is classic wolf behavior.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:47:57 pm
Pretty sure mechanically only one of the two of them can be a wolf though.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 02:59:23 pm
Pretty sure mechanically only one of the two of them can be a wolf though.
Wait.

Didn't Euchrejack claim that they were basically untrackable (and presumably unwatchable as well)?

In that case ignore this, they could technically both be wolves together.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 03:01:42 pm
In that case ignore this, they could technically both be wolves together.

WHO'S 'THEY' HERE?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 03:02:12 pm
ALSO I THINK THERE'S ONLY FIVE HOURS LEFT IN THE DAY.

SO ALL YOU FENCE SITTERS NEED TO HURRY UP AND MAKE UP YOUR MINDS.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 03:02:44 pm
AND I'D PREFER IT IF YOU DID IT NOW INSTEAD OF FIFTEEN MINUTES BEFORE THE DEADLINE.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 03:03:14 pm
EuchreJack

The more I think it through the more I feel like this is just the wolf killing role, paired with either Tricmagic.

I really need to read NQT's posts today, what with knightwing basically being a nonentity an impossible to read, but to quote our favorite miller claim "TEDIUM TEDIUM TEDIUM". Seriously NQT posts are dense. Toony, has he already started charting yet?

In that case ignore this, they could technically both be wolves together.

WHO'S 'THEY' HERE?
Sorry yeah I wasn't clear, "they" are Tricmagic and Euchrejack. I was looking for wolfteams and thought that your mech cleared one if the other flips wolf but I don't think it actually does.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 03:04:45 pm
*Either Tricmagic or someone else, I'm still parsing through a few people.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 03:08:11 pm
Reads List:
Almost certainly town:
Toony
Jim

Probably town but need to check again:
Max

Working on it:
Roden
NQT

Contradictory claim, probably a wolf:
TricMagic

Just a wolf:
EuchreJack
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 03:08:35 pm
*nonsensical claim, not contradictory claim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 03:31:56 pm
SO ALL YOU FENCE SITTERS NEED TO HURRY UP AND MAKE UP YOUR MINDS.
I'm thinking. I'm happy that 4mask is here but I wish it was yesterday.

It's hard for me to believe 4mask because that means he's the player and I've been played, but I don't feel as bad about it if Roden shoots mafia.

Comprising with NQT feels dirty.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 03:43:33 pm
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 03:43:43 pm
Unofficial Vote Count:
4maskwolf - 1 - TricMagic*,
notquitethere - 2 - Jim Groovester*, Roden*,
Maximum Spin - 1 - notquitethere*,
EuchreJack - 1 - 4maskwolf
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 03:45:36 pm
Wow, so now if 4maskwolf flips town, then I've been upgraded to KILL rather than LYNCH.
Note: I was supposed to provide Roden an alibi by tracking them, so  ???

But fuck it, 4maskwolf
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 03:49:08 pm
Rational for voting 4maskwolf:
So, I've been mostly thinking their gunning for me (who I know is town), was shortsighted town play.  I mean, wouldn't a wolf want to push a lynch that will get someone killed?

But, then again, maybe not.
Maybe the best thing for a wolf to do is push a lynch that isn't going anywhere.  He gets the town cred of rabidly pursuing a suspect without the suspicion of being part of a lynch of a townie.

So yeah, I think 4maskwolf by pursuing me Day 1, even when I was getting heavily town read, was a wolfie act.
I don't know if today's vote on me has any traction, at this point 4maskwolf is pretty much burned so they probably don't care.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 30, 2022, 03:50:07 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363249#msg8363249), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363476#msg8363476),
notquitethere - 2 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363054#msg8363054), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363065#msg8363065),
EuchreJack - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363462#msg8363462),
Maximum Spin - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363162#msg8363162),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363316#msg8363316), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363447#msg8363447),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (4 hours and 10 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 03:51:03 pm
Yo, I am about for rest of day, but stuck phone posting.

Lucky for you kids is that means no walls of text.

Just reading back now, but if there's anything you want me to respond to specifically, speak now or forever hold your peace.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 03:52:05 pm
While we're at it...

Does someone want to remind me whether Max or Euchre's claims were in any way confirmed... and why people are sure Tric's revive wasn't a free action? And what's the deal with 4masks argument here?

Also, Roden is still most likely scum but I'd like to see why people think that's not the case.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 03:52:58 pm
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 03:55:20 pm
Wow, so now if 4maskwolf flips town, then I've been upgraded to KILL rather than LYNCH.
Note: I was supposed to provide Roden an alibi by tracking them, so  ???

But fuck it, 4maskwolf
What's wrong with that? The most likely people to have killed last night are me, Tric, Jack, or 4mask.

If 4mask is town he's pointing a finger at another top killer suspect, you or possibly Tric.

But, then again, maybe not.
Maybe the best thing for a wolf to do is push a lynch that isn't going anywhere.  He gets the town cred of rabidly pursuing a suspect without the suspicion of being part of a lynch of a townie.
That towncred goes away the moment he flips mafia after we lynch him.

at this point 4maskwolf is pretty much burned so they probably don't care.
Are you reading the same posts I am?


PPE:
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Yeah it's not like I'm considering anything you're saying now that you're present.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 03:56:03 pm
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Now, this bothers me, since I know I'm town, and thus if you flip town then two town die instead of one.
Yet, you don't seem to consider this a possibility, so why should I?
So my vote remains.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 30, 2022, 04:00:47 pm
Btw, I won't be here at Day end, so you'll be on your own for a couple hours. Votes that are posted after 7:59:59 will not be counted, and talking is to cease at that time. I won't be able to post vote counts during that time, so I apologize.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:01:23 pm
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Now, this bothers me, since I know I'm town, and thus if you flip town then two town die instead of one.
Yet, you don't seem to consider this a possibility, so why should I?
So my vote remains.
What.
I was whining about dying, not declaring you scum emperor of the scum empire forever and ever amen.

I genuinely don’t think you have more than like a 2% chance of flipping town though.

Notice how the immediate response from both Tric and Jack when I shine a light on them is yo reflexively lash out and try and push for my death.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 04:02:15 pm
HOWEVER, nobody has counter claimed Cop in any way shape or form.  We also have allegedly three millers.  So I'm inclined to think Max is our Town Cop.
This is way off from Euchrejack— What reason do you have to think there definitely would be a cop or that there would only be one? (Multiple players may have investigative one-shots— indeed the game started with various peek claims). More pressingly, why are you trying to role fish here, baiting a cop to claim?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:10:22 pm
FYI: I won't be around for end of day.  So feel free to lynch me while I'm not around.  I look like scum, I have no way of proving I'm not scum, so fuck it. I can be your designated mislynch if you're hell bent on mislynching.

But I'll be around for a bit.

HOWEVER, nobody has counter claimed Cop in any way shape or form.  We also have allegedly three millers.  So I'm inclined to think Max is our Town Cop.
This is way off from Euchrejack— What reason do you have to think there definitely would be a cop or that there would only be one? (Multiple players may have investigative one-shots— indeed the game started with various peek claims). More pressingly, why are you trying to role fish here, baiting a cop to claim?
Max claimed cop.  If there was a full-blown cop, they would counterclaim Max due to knowing that Max is lying mafia scum.
Nobody did that.
Ergo, Max is probably cop.  And Max claimed without any prompting by me.
Go back to your reading, NQT  ::)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:10:53 pm
Wow, so now if 4maskwolf flips town, then I've been upgraded to KILL rather than LYNCH.
Note: I was supposed to provide Roden an alibi by tracking them, so  ???

But fuck it, 4maskwolf
What's wrong with that? The most likely people to have killed last night are me, Tric, Jack, or 4mask.

If 4mask is town he's pointing a finger at another top killer suspect, you or possibly Tric.

But, then again, maybe not.
Maybe the best thing for a wolf to do is push a lynch that isn't going anywhere.  He gets the town cred of rabidly pursuing a suspect without the suspicion of being part of a lynch of a townie.
That towncred goes away the moment he flips mafia after we lynch him.

at this point 4maskwolf is pretty much burned so they probably don't care.
Are you reading the same posts I am?


PPE:
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Yeah it's not like I'm considering anything you're saying now that you're present.
Except that your exact argument could work equally well in reverse: why not launch EuchreJack and shoot me in my lying wolf face if he’s town, rather than launching me before shooting Euchre in his lying wolf face? If Jack is a wolf we don’t even know what his real role is because “ascetic tracker” is such obvious bullshit, whereas the details of my role are known and confirmed by Jim

Yes, I’d rather live to the end of the game, especially when my death isn’t actually part of a breaking strategy. Sue me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:12:54 pm
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Now, this bothers me, since I know I'm town, and thus if you flip town then two town die instead of one.
Yet, you don't seem to consider this a possibility, so why should I?
So my vote remains.
What.
I was whining about dying, not declaring you scum emperor of the scum empire forever and ever amen.

I genuinely don’t think you have more than like a 2% chance of flipping town though.

Notice how the immediate response from both Tric and Jack when I shine a light on them is yo reflexively lash out and try and push for my death.
Sorry, but how exactly am I 98% scum?!
Like, seriously, explain yourself.
If I didn't think you were scum, I would not have "lashed out".  Brush up on your acting lessons, scum.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:14:38 pm
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Now, this bothers me, since I know I'm town, and thus if you flip town then two town die instead of one.
Yet, you don't seem to consider this a possibility, so why should I?
So my vote remains.
What.
I was whining about dying, not declaring you scum emperor of the scum empire forever and ever amen.

I genuinely don’t think you have more than like a 2% chance of flipping town though.

Notice how the immediate response from both Tric and Jack when I shine a light on them is yo reflexively lash out and try and push for my death.
Sorry, but how exactly am I 98% scum?!
Like, seriously, explain yourself.
If I didn't think you were scum, I would not have "lashed out".  Brush up on your acting lessons, scum.
This post doesn’t even merit a real response lmao. You, me, and everyone else knows that “2%” wasn’t some kind of exact mathematical value but a way of expressing how certain I am in you being a wolf.

But please, keep grasping at straws.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:15:06 pm
Wow, so now if 4maskwolf flips town, then I've been upgraded to KILL rather than LYNCH.
Note: I was supposed to provide Roden an alibi by tracking them, so  ???

But fuck it, 4maskwolf
What's wrong with that? The most likely people to have killed last night are me, Tric, Jack, or 4mask.

If 4mask is town he's pointing a finger at another top killer suspect, you or possibly Tric.

But, then again, maybe not.
Maybe the best thing for a wolf to do is push a lynch that isn't going anywhere.  He gets the town cred of rabidly pursuing a suspect without the suspicion of being part of a lynch of a townie.
That towncred goes away the moment he flips mafia after we lynch him.

at this point 4maskwolf is pretty much burned so they probably don't care.
Are you reading the same posts I am?


PPE:
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Yeah it's not like I'm considering anything you're saying now that you're present.
Except that your exact argument could work equally well in reverse: why not launch EuchreJack and shoot me in my lying wolf face if he’s town, rather than launching me before shooting Euchre in his lying wolf face? If Jack is a wolf we don’t even know what his real role is because “ascetic tracker” is such obvious bullshit, whereas the details of my role are known and confirmed by Jim

Yes, I’d rather live to the end of the game, especially when my death isn’t actually part of a breaking strategy. Sue me.
So...Known role but scummy is better than Unknownable role but townie?
By your logic, we love the Devil and hate God.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:16:21 pm
Wow, so now if 4maskwolf flips town, then I've been upgraded to KILL rather than LYNCH.
Note: I was supposed to provide Roden an alibi by tracking them, so  ???

But fuck it, 4maskwolf
What's wrong with that? The most likely people to have killed last night are me, Tric, Jack, or 4mask.

If 4mask is town he's pointing a finger at another top killer suspect, you or possibly Tric.

But, then again, maybe not.
Maybe the best thing for a wolf to do is push a lynch that isn't going anywhere.  He gets the town cred of rabidly pursuing a suspect without the suspicion of being part of a lynch of a townie.
That towncred goes away the moment he flips mafia after we lynch him.

at this point 4maskwolf is pretty much burned so they probably don't care.
Are you reading the same posts I am?


PPE:
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Yeah it's not like I'm considering anything you're saying now that you're present.
Except that your exact argument could work equally well in reverse: why not launch EuchreJack and shoot me in my lying wolf face if he’s town, rather than launching me before shooting Euchre in his lying wolf face? If Jack is a wolf we don’t even know what his real role is because “ascetic tracker” is such obvious bullshit, whereas the details of my role are known and confirmed by Jim

Yes, I’d rather live to the end of the game, especially when my death isn’t actually part of a breaking strategy. Sue me.
So...Known role but scummy is better than Unknownable role but townie?
By your logic, we love the Devil and hate God.
Wow.

I am so burned.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:17:50 pm
Seriously does anyone here actually think this grasping at straws and flailing to find some way to implicate me is towny?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:18:50 pm
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Now, this bothers me, since I know I'm town, and thus if you flip town then two town die instead of one.
Yet, you don't seem to consider this a possibility, so why should I?
So my vote remains.
What.
I was whining about dying, not declaring you scum emperor of the scum empire forever and ever amen.

I genuinely don’t think you have more than like a 2% chance of flipping town though.

Notice how the immediate response from both Tric and Jack when I shine a light on them is yo reflexively lash out and try and push for my death.
Sorry, but how exactly am I 98% scum?!
Like, seriously, explain yourself.
If I didn't think you were scum, I would not have "lashed out".  Brush up on your acting lessons, scum.
This post doesn’t even merit a real response lmao. You, me, and everyone else knows that “2%” wasn’t some kind of exact mathematical value but a way of expressing how certain I am in you being a wolf.

But please, keep grasping at straws.
Instead of trying to paint me scum, why not explain for the other viewers why I'm scum?
That alone is suspicious.
If you are misguided, I'll unvote you myself.  Did I vote you end of Day 1? NO

Oh, you switched from me to Vector at some point.  Hm, I need to reassess. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362101#msg8362101)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:20:30 pm
Seriously does anyone here actually think this grasping at straws and flailing to find some way to implicate me is towny?

The problem I have with this is twofold:
1) I'm trying to have a conversation so I can make a last-minute assessment of you.  I am voting you, and I could unvote you.  Why do you fail to understand that?
2) I'm NOT the only one who has suspected you today.  In fact, it was mostly Toonyman, yet you aren't going after him AT ALL.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:25:23 pm
I would really prefer voting off 4mask here since if he's town then Roden could shoot Jack. 4mask expresses full trust in me and Jim so he should be okay with this, although it's still shitty for 4mask. 4mask has suspected Tric and Jack since D1.

Jim is HARD DEFENDING 4mask which I think he is mainly doing because of the massive bribe he received last night. I don't strongly feel he's mafia with 4mask because this is super desperate, but it's definitely not impossible as they're boned otherwise in that scenario.
I'm okay with it in the same way I'm okay with blood draws: not at all and only participating with great reluctance, but if it’s truly necessary I’ll grudgingly accept it. Just wish I was dying for something more valuable than an ego play, though.
Now, this bothers me, since I know I'm town, and thus if you flip town then two town die instead of one.
Yet, you don't seem to consider this a possibility, so why should I?
So my vote remains.
What.
I was whining about dying, not declaring you scum emperor of the scum empire forever and ever amen.

I genuinely don’t think you have more than like a 2% chance of flipping town though.

Notice how the immediate response from both Tric and Jack when I shine a light on them is yo reflexively lash out and try and push for my death.
Sorry, but how exactly am I 98% scum?!
Like, seriously, explain yourself.
If I didn't think you were scum, I would not have "lashed out".  Brush up on your acting lessons, scum.
This post doesn’t even merit a real response lmao. You, me, and everyone else knows that “2%” wasn’t some kind of exact mathematical value but a way of expressing how certain I am in you being a wolf.

But please, keep grasping at straws.
Instead of trying to paint me scum, why not explain for the other viewers why I'm scum?
That alone is suspicious.
If you are misguided, I'll unvote you myself.  Did I vote you end of Day 1? NO

Oh, you switched from me to Vector at some point.  Hm, I need to reassess. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362101#msg8362101)
I already explained why you were scum both from a social deduction angle (D1) and a mechanical angle (D2). Which you should know if you’re genuine about casing me.

Seriously does anyone here actually think this grasping at straws and flailing to find some way to implicate me is towny?

The problem I have with this is twofold:
1) I'm trying to have a conversation so I can make a last-minute assessment of you.  I am voting you, and I could unvote you.  Why do you fail to understand that?
2) I'm NOT the only one who has suspected you today.  In fact, it was mostly Toonyman, yet you aren't going after him AT ALL.
Just a few posts ago you were telling me to “brush up on my acting skills scum” and now you’re “making a last minute assessment of me”?

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah bullshit.

Yes, Toony (and many other people) have suspected me today. Toony is mechanically improbable as a wolf and has valid reasons (if not ones I agree with) for having suspected me. I don’t go after people because they suspect me, I go after them because they are wolfy.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:27:17 pm
READ THIS POST
Ah shit, we didn't even bother to look at the end of day 1.  We're all amateur here.
End of Day 1: 4maskwolf swaps onto Vector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078), then Max swaps onto Vector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362088#msg8362088).  Both in the last 5 minutes of the day.
They could totally have been a mafia team coordinating a vote onto Vector. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362101#msg8362101)

I take back my town read of Max.

Thank you.  You can go back to ignoring the 4mask vs. Me posting spam.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:29:29 pm
READ THIS POST
Ah shit, we didn't even bother to look at the end of day 1.  We're all amateur here.
End of Day 1: 4maskwolf swaps onto Vector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078), then Max swaps onto Vector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362088#msg8362088).  Both in the last 5 minutes of the day.
They could totally have been a mafia team coordinating a vote onto Vector. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362101#msg8362101)

I take back my town read of Max.

Thank you.  You can go back to ignoring the 4mask vs. Me posting spam.
Would you like to share with the class who Max and I swung the vote off of?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 04:32:38 pm
Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?

I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT TRICMAGIC (BY WATCHING YOU) DURING N1.

IF I'M WATCHING SOMEBODY AND THEY GET REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THEM.

FEASIBLY IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE EVENTUAL NIGHT KILL TARGET THEN IT WAS TOONYMAN OR TRICMAGIC WHO DID IT.
It's late here and my grasp of this game having subbed in part way is not as strong as I'd like... but reading Toony's claim, isn't the most likely reason Tric was shot was because someone shot 4mask and it was bussed to Tric? Or is that ruled out by something else?

---

Euchre, you must see that it's highly unlikely that this set up would have a pure cop. Everyone has bizarro roles, no?

Ppe: time to recheck eod...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:33:21 pm
READ THIS POST
Ah shit, we didn't even bother to look at the end of day 1.  We're all amateur here.
End of Day 1: 4maskwolf swaps onto Vector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078), then Max swaps onto Vector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362088#msg8362088).  Both in the last 5 minutes of the day.
They could totally have been a mafia team coordinating a vote onto Vector. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362101#msg8362101)

I take back my town read of Max.

Thank you.  You can go back to ignoring the 4mask vs. Me posting spam.
Would you like to share with the class who Max and I swung the vote off of?
Toonyman (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362069#msg8362069)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:34:41 pm
Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?

I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT TRICMAGIC (BY WATCHING YOU) DURING N1.

IF I'M WATCHING SOMEBODY AND THEY GET REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THEM.

FEASIBLY IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE EVENTUAL NIGHT KILL TARGET THEN IT WAS TOONYMAN OR TRICMAGIC WHO DID IT.
It's late here and my grasp of this game having subbed in part way is not as strong as I'd like... but reading Toony's claim, isn't the most likely reason Tric was shot was because someone shot 4mask and it was bussed to Tric? Or is that ruled out by something else?

---

Euchre, you must see that it's highly unlikely that this set up would have a pure cop. Everyone has bizarro roles, no?

Ppe: time to recheck eod...
I'm a "pure" tracker, unless I misread my role.  Thus I believed that there could be a pure cop.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:38:41 pm
READ THIS POST
Ah shit, we didn't even bother to look at the end of day 1.  We're all amateur here.
End of Day 1: 4maskwolf swaps onto Vector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362078#msg8362078), then Max swaps onto Vector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362088#msg8362088).  Both in the last 5 minutes of the day.
They could totally have been a mafia team coordinating a vote onto Vector. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362101#msg8362101)

I take back my town read of Max.

Thank you.  You can go back to ignoring the 4mask vs. Me posting spam.
Would you like to share with the class who Max and I swung the vote off of?
Toonyman (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362069#msg8362069)
Correct!

Now, riddle me this. Why would a Mask/Max wolfteam, moving into that game state at EoD, move the elimination from Toonyman, a highly active townie (in this world) who if I remember things correctly had both of us on his shortlist of communist spies in government wolf suspects, and onto Vector, an inactive townie with an inoffensive demonstrated power and whose primary scum suspect appears to be Jim Groovester (another townie in this universe).

Your proposed wolfteam has more holes than Swiss cheese.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 04:39:09 pm
I don't see a 4mask-Toony-Max team. Unless I've messed up the night interactions, 4mask was most likely the scum kill.

Max though people only think so town due to the most tenuous and easy-for-mafia-to-fake claims.

Euchre, I'm pretty much just a tracker but even then my role has some additionally weirdness. I don't buy for one moment that your role is just:

[Night] Track: follow someone to see who they target.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 04:40:13 pm
Except that your exact argument could work equally well in reverse: why not launch EuchreJack and shoot me in my lying wolf face if he’s town, rather than launching me before shooting Euchre in his lying wolf face? If Jack is a wolf we don’t even know what his real role is because “ascetic tracker” is such obvious bullshit, whereas the details of my role are known and confirmed by Jim
Yep. I guess I didn't post it yet, but I was going to say that the order doesn't really matter to me. If we lynch Jack first and shoot 4mask depending on Jack's flip that's almost the same result. I could have swore I said that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:41:08 pm
Tricmagic said something that's been bothering the hell out of me.

Pretty sure someone just tried to shoot Jim last night and it wound up getting redirected onto Tricmagic (Jim redirecting the kill onto me and it then being redirected by Toonyman onto Tricmagic). Why?

I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT TRICMAGIC (BY WATCHING YOU) DURING N1.

IF I'M WATCHING SOMEBODY AND THEY GET REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THEM.

FEASIBLY IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE EVENTUAL NIGHT KILL TARGET THEN IT WAS TOONYMAN OR TRICMAGIC WHO DID IT.
It's late here and my grasp of this game having subbed in part way is not as strong as I'd like... but reading Toony's claim, isn't the most likely reason Tric was shot was because someone shot 4mask and it was bussed to Tric? Or is that ruled out by something else?

---

Euchre, you must see that it's highly unlikely that this set up would have a pure cop. Everyone has bizarro roles, no?

Ppe: time to recheck eod...
In all honesty, I haven't a clue what happened last night phase other than Max visited Toonyman and Tric died then revived.
Frankly, anything more than that could incorporate one lie. If I die, look into Jim & Toonyman.  I suspect this sort of confusion is only possible if one of them is scum.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:42:21 pm
Euchre, I'm pretty much just a tracker but even then my role has some additionally weirdness. I don't buy for one moment that your role is just:

[Night] Track: follow someone to see who they target.
You forgot [Auto]: Nobody can track you and you read as scum, ha ha ha have fun looking like scum, stupid townie!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 04:43:22 pm
IF I'M WATCHING SOMEBODY AND THEY GET REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T KNOW IF I SEE THEM.

SO WEBADICT TELLS ME I DO SEE SOMEBODY GET REDIRECTED BACK TO THEMSELVES.

TUGGING ON THIS A BIT MORE, IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE TARGET OF THE NIGHT KILL THEN THE ONLY PERSON WHO COULD HAVE KILLED TRICMAGIC DURING N1 WOULD HAVE BEEN TOONYMAN.

Does someone want to remind me whether Max or Euchre's claims were in any way confirmed... and why people are sure Tric's revive wasn't a free action? And what's the deal with 4masks argument here?

NEGATIVE.

and why people are sure Tric's revive wasn't a free action?

I DON'T SEE ANYBODY ASSERTING THIS.

It's late here and my grasp of this game having subbed in part way is not as strong as I'd like... but reading Toony's claim, isn't the most likely reason Tric was shot was because someone shot 4mask and it was bussed to Tric? Or is that ruled out by something else?

SO 4MASKWOLF POSTULATES THAT TRICMAGIC WAS THE VICTIM OF THE NIGHT KILL. SO THE ONLY WAY THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED IS IF THE KILLER TARGETED 4MASKWOLF DIRECTLY OR TARGETED ME SINCE I REDIRECTED EVERYTHING TARGETING ME (EXCEPT ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF TARGETED ME WITH) TO 4MASKWOLF, AND THEN TOONYMAN'S BUSSING SWAPPED TRICMAGIC'S AND 4MASKWOLF'S PLACES.

I WAS WATCHING 4MASKWOLF AND BECAUSE OF TOONYMAN'S BUSSING OF 4MASKWOLF AND TRICMAGIC I ENDED UP WATCHING TRICMAGIC. I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT.

Quote
EUCHREJACK/4MASKWOLF SHIT FLINGING

THIS IS A VERY PRODUCTIVE DISCUSSION

I ENJOY READING IT

PLEASE CONTINUE
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 04:44:59 pm
It's late here and my grasp of this game having subbed in part way is not as strong as I'd like... but reading Toony's claim, isn't the most likely reason Tric was shot was because someone shot 4mask and it was bussed to Tric? Or is that ruled out by something else?
It's possible. Jim redirected all actions from himself to 4mask, but that wouldn't have changed anything about my bus driving of 4mask and Tric.

I was actually fairly convinced 4mask was confirmed town until Tric dropped their claim bomb.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:45:47 pm
You’re forgetting Euchre, Jim. He already claimed to have a ninja-like ability that makes him unnoticeable when acting.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 04:46:46 pm
You’re forgetting Euchre, Jim. He already claimed to have a ninja-like ability that makes him unnoticeable when acting.

THAT'S

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 04:48:09 pm
You’re forgetting Euchre, Jim. He already claimed to have a ninja-like ability that makes him unnoticeable when acting.

THAT'S

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
That’s literally one of the two pillars of why I think Euchre is a wolf, alongside their easily fakeable night action claim (the least supported claim out of anyone, as I understand things).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 04:48:27 pm
IF TRICMAGIC WAS THE TARGET OF THE NIGHT KILL THEN THE ONLY PERSON WHO COULD HAVE KILLED TRICMAGIC DURING N1 WOULD HAVE BEEN TOONYMAN.
Which I did not. Does this mean Tric is being truthful about their sacrifice claim?

What if the mafia tried to kill 4mask? Would you see anybody that was redirected from 4mask to Tric?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 04:49:48 pm
You’re forgetting Euchre, Jim. He already claimed to have a ninja-like ability that makes him unnoticeable when acting.

THAT'S

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

I THOUGHT HE CLAIMED ASCETIC. THE REDIRECT WOULDN'T HAVE WORKED ON HIM BUT I SUPPOSE THE BUSSING WOULD HAVE?

What if the mafia tried to kill 4mask? Would you see anybody that was redirected from 4mask to Tric?

I WOULD THINK SO.

IF I CAN SEE SOMEBODY GETTING REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T SEE WHY I WOULDN'T SEE OTHER PLAYERS GETTING REDIRECTED.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 04:50:49 pm
I never targeted Jack with the bus drive so I imagine it would still affect him.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 04:51:12 pm
How did we end up with 4mask switching arguments to me, then switching to Jack? It's late people, 4mask should have challenged me long before this I think.

Ninja, all of you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 04:51:30 pm
You’re forgetting Euchre, Jim. He already claimed to have a ninja-like ability that makes him unnoticeable when acting.

THAT'S

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

I THOUGHT HE CLAIMED ASCETIC. THE REDIRECT WOULDN'T HAVE WORKED ON HIM BUT I SUPPOSE THE BUSSING WOULD HAVE?

What if the mafia tried to kill 4mask? Would you see anybody that was redirected from 4mask to Tric?

I WOULD THINK SO.

IF I CAN SEE SOMEBODY GETTING REDIRECTED TO THEMSELVES I DON'T SEE WHY I WOULDN'T SEE OTHER PLAYERS GETTING REDIRECTED.
In all fairness, from what I can tell, there is absolutely no way that you can see me. So if I got caught up in that mess, you would not know.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 04:52:15 pm
I never targeted Jack with the bus drive so I imagine it would still affect him.

I MEAN IF JACK TRIED TO TARGET 4MASKWOLF, IT SHOULD STILL HIT TRICMAGIC, RIGHT?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 04:54:27 pm
I never targeted Jack with the bus drive so I imagine it would still affect him.

I MEAN IF JACK TRIED TO TARGET 4MASKWOLF, IT SHOULD STILL HIT TRICMAGIC, RIGHT?

It should, but as far as I can tell we can't gather anything from that since Tric made nobody able to die last night besides himself.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 04:55:38 pm
I don't think Tric is clever enough to make up a fake-claim on the spot after getting blasted by his partner, but maybe he is.

Tric did say he befriended Jack...ugh why Jack of all people Tric??
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 04:59:22 pm
Jack explicitly makes his claim last
I didn't claim.
Since everyone has claimed, I might as well.
I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  So it only bolsters existing players, but I felt it best to be clear whom I am bolstering.

He claims something he could know if he was mafia whether or not Max is on the same side (because Max had claimed). He also claims a role that is way is simpler than my confirmed tracking role. And he is excessively certain that Max must be the only town cop, because his whole claim rests on Max telling the truth about his action.

EuchreJack has the weakest claim here.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 05:01:09 pm
I never targeted Jack with the bus drive so I imagine it would still affect him.

I MEAN IF JACK TRIED TO TARGET 4MASKWOLF, IT SHOULD STILL HIT TRICMAGIC, RIGHT?
Both of your guesses are as good as mine.

My (current) theory is that Jim was the intended Night Kill. That Night Kill got transferred to 4maskwolf, then Tric.
That clears Jim as Town.
It is NAI for 4maskwolf.
It makes Toonyman look "better" as redirecting onto Tric who claimed some sort of immortality is townie.

My role is pretty much designed that unless I claim first on a day, then it's impossible for me to be "cleared".

Jack explicitly makes his claim last
I didn't claim.
Since everyone has claimed, I might as well.
I tracked Maximum Spin visiting Toonyman.  So it only bolsters existing players, but I felt it best to be clear whom I am bolstering.

He claims something he could know if he was mafia whether or not Max is on the same side (because Max had claimed). He also claims a role that is way is simpler than my confirmed tracking role. And he is excessively certain that Max must be the only town cop, because his whole claim rests on Max telling the truth about his action.

EuchreJack has the weakest claim here.
OOH, Let's Lynch the weakest claim.  That is GUARANTEED to win town the game!!!  Good Job NQT!!! You are MVP for SURE!
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Maybe I can label you too dumb for scum?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 05:03:51 pm
MY THINKING EARLIER IN DAY 2 WAS THAT TRICMAGIC CLAIMING THE MAGIC ONE SHOT PROTECT AGAINST ALL KILLS THAT ALSO KILLS HIM WAS A GREAT WAY TO EXPLAIN I) DYING, II) THE LOSS OF AUTOS, AND III) A GREAT WAY TO OBSCURE WHO THE INTENDED TARGET OF THE NIGHT KILL WAS.

THIS WAS BEFORE I STARTED THINKING ABOUT HOW MY ROLE ACTUALLY WORKED AND HOW I ENDED UP WATCHING HIM AND ONLY SAW YOU (TOONYMAN) VISIT HIM.

I don't think Tric is clever enough to make up a fake-claim on the spot after getting blasted by his partner, but maybe he is.

YOU REMEMBER IN MAGIC MAFIA WHEN TRICMAGIC FAKE CLAIMED IN SUPPORT OF VECTOR'S GUILTY INSPECT DURING DAY 2?

I'VE BEEN REMINDED OF THAT WHEN THINKING ABOUT HIS CLAIM, SO I DO THINK HE CAN BE QUICK ON HIS FEET LIKE THAT AND THAT HIS

MANNER

WOULD LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT WHEREAS A MORE CAREFUL POSTER LIKE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET AWAY WITH THAT.

Both of your guesses are as good as mine.

My (current) theory is that Jim was the intended Night Kill. That Night Kill got transferred to 4maskwolf, then Tric.
That clears Jim as Town.
It is NAI for 4maskwolf.
It makes Toonyman look "better" as redirecting onto Tric who claimed some sort of immortality is townie.

My role is pretty much designed that unless I claim first on a day, then it's impossible for me to be "cleared".

YOUR THEORY IMPLICATES PLAYERS WHO CAN'T BE TRACKED I.E. YOU AND RODEN.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 05:04:58 pm
OOH, Let's Lynch the weakest claim.  That is GUARANTEED to win town the game!!!  Good Job NQT!!! You are MVP for SURE!
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Maybe I can label you too dumb for scum?

COULD YOU STOP BEING BITTER FOR A SECOND OR TWO
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 05:05:20 pm
I don't think Tric is clever enough to make up a fake-claim on the spot after getting blasted by his partner, but maybe he is.

Tric did say he befriended Jack...ugh why Jack of all people Tric??
I pretty much started to wonder that myself later in the day. All I'll say is targeting a miller seemed like a good way to revive a lot. Then the bit about being immune came up, so.. Yeah, not the best play.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 05:07:24 pm
4MASKWOLF, I THINK TRICMAGIC CLAIMED HIS MAGIC ONE SHOT WAS NAMED SACRIFICE.

DOES THE ITEM YOU GOT FROM HIS DEATH SEEM CONSISTENT FLAVORWISE WITH THAT?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 05:09:09 pm
4MASKWOLF, I THINK TRICMAGIC CLAIMED HIS MAGIC ONE SHOT WAS NAMED SACRIFICE.

DOES THE ITEM YOU GOT FROM HIS DEATH SEEM CONSISTENT FLAVORWISE WITH THAT?
My item flavor appears to be based on my own role, not the role of the dead. So, inherently no.

I probably just told you what my role is but c’est la vie.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 05:09:39 pm
I will say that the effect of my one-shot item from him is in no way related to sacrficing myself, no.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 05:10:13 pm
@Jim: I'm unclear on what is your claimed night action.  I see you are confused as well.  Could you lay out all the information you have from the night phase in one post, so I can actually understand it?

4MASKWOLF, I THINK TRICMAGIC CLAIMED HIS MAGIC ONE SHOT WAS NAMED SACRIFICE.

DOES THE ITEM YOU GOT FROM HIS DEATH SEEM CONSISTENT FLAVORWISE WITH THAT?
My item flavor appears to be based on my own role, not the role of the dead. So, inherently no.

I probably just told you what my role is but c’est la vie.

Since Tric died in your place, poetic justice?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 05:14:37 pm
Pure deflection from Jack here. Not even going to attempt to address the substance, huh.

Also, isn't it a bit weird that a player would claim that he could be the only town tracker and yet also claim being untrackable. Who do you think is going to track you??? Or is it just Max that's claiming there can only be one tracker and you that's claiming there's only one cop? I need to go back and check...

(Also, is it just me or has Roden conveniently disappeared?)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 05:16:06 pm
Max perfectly timed that vote shift yesterday.
I want to know who Toony targeted last night though.

CONSIDERING HOW MUCH SCREECHING TRICMAGIC DID ON DAY 1 ABOUT TOONYMAN WIPING HIS AUTOS I DON'T KNOW WHY TRICMAGIC IS INTERESTED IN WHAT TOONYMAN DID DURING NIGHT 1 IF HE KNOWS HE SHOT OFF A ONE SHOT THAT WIPED HIS REVIVING AUTO.

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

@Jim: I'm unclear on what is your claimed night action.  I see you are confused as well.  Could you lay out all the information you have from the night phase in one post, so I can actually understand it?

DURING DAY 1 I CHOSE 4MASKWOLF. WHILE 4MASKWOLF IS ALIVE ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGET ME TARGET HIM INSTEAD, EXCEPT FOR ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF DOES THAT TARGET ME.
DURING NIGHT 1 I CHOSE TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on March 30, 2022, 05:16:19 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363249#msg8363249), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363476#msg8363476),
EuchreJack - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363462#msg8363462), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363491#msg8363491),
notquitethere - 2 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363054#msg8363054), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363065#msg8363065),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363316#msg8363316), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363447#msg8363447),

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (2 hours and 43 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 05:22:29 pm
TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

IF YOU DON'T ANSWER I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT THE ANSWER IS YES.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 05:22:39 pm
Max perfectly timed that vote shift yesterday.
I want to know who Toony targeted last night though.

CONSIDERING HOW MUCH SCREECHING TRICMAGIC DID ON DAY 1 ABOUT TOONYMAN WIPING HIS AUTOS I DON'T KNOW WHY TRICMAGIC IS INTERESTED IN WHAT TOONYMAN DID DURING NIGHT 1 IF HE KNOWS HE SHOT OFF A ONE SHOT THAT WIPED HIS REVIVING AUTO.

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

@Jim: I'm unclear on what is your claimed night action.  I see you are confused as well.  Could you lay out all the information you have from the night phase in one post, so I can actually understand it?

DURING DAY 1 I CHOSE 4MASKWOLF. WHILE 4MASKWOLF IS ALIVE ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGET ME TARGET HIM INSTEAD, EXCEPT FOR ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF DOES THAT TARGET ME.
DURING NIGHT 1 I CHOSE TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF.

Ah, so that is why 4maskwolf can't be the killer.
Switching to NQT
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 05:28:11 pm
I'm inclined to believe that Tric is just lying townie.  His truthfulness isn't particularly relevant to his alignment.
Trying to decipher his role is a waste of time: In all honestly, Tric probably doesn't even understand it well enough to tell us honestly if he was inclined to do so.
(TRIC: THIS HELPS YOU SO SHUT UP, YOU ARE NOT GETTING VOTED)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 05:29:55 pm
So is this just an OMGUS Jack or can you muster a reason to vote me? If you're unvoting 4mask because he can't be the killer, why are you voting me? I'm confirmed not the killer unless you think the team is me and Roden?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 05:34:28 pm
Woke up about an hour ago, just finished catching up. We have a bit more than I expected so that's good at least. At least I won't be here just for the last ten minutes again.

Ok so first off, anyone noticing how I and others said "NQT/4mask is the solve" and they didn't give a shit until the deadline reared its head? NQT went from calling me obvscum and shading Tric to teaming up with 4mask to attack Jack and overwhelm him. Their attack on him feels very obviously coordinated and like a last minute hail mary.

I'm pretty certain this is town!Jack, his behavior all day has been his townie self and his reaction to pressure from the NQT/4mask double team gave me war flashbacks to the newbie set up we did a while back. I genuinely don't think he's mafia here, and you all can complain about meta all you want but this isn't just a meta read, it's a read on play and behavior.

I still want NQT voted out today if possible.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 05:35:43 pm
So is this just an OMGUS Jack or can you muster a reason to vote me? If you're unvoting 4mask because he can't be the killer, why are you voting me? I'm confirmed not the killer unless you think the team is me and Roden?
Why are you confirmed to not be the killer?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 05:36:12 pm
Tric could be the killer (he shoots 4mask or Jim and its redirected back onto him in a hilarious sequence.)

Roden could be the killer, as I've made clear earlier. (He's explicitly not a real commuter, he didn't leave the town, his kill couldn't have been tracked by me or Toony).

Or it's Jack, who has an unverifiable claim.

If these are the only possible killers then we need to shoot in this pool.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 05:36:52 pm
So is this just an OMGUS Jack or can you muster a reason to vote me? If you're unvoting 4mask because he can't be the killer, why are you voting me? I'm confirmed not the killer unless you think the team is me and Roden?
Why are you confirmed to not be the killer?
You really asking me this??? When you were the one who confirmed my tracking? WOW
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 05:38:36 pm
You made a massive fuss about being "forced" to claim after I share my tracking attempt result and now you're conveniently forgetting all that, huh?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 05:43:00 pm
Why did I signup for this
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 05:45:56 pm
I'm inclined to believe that Tric is just lying townie.  His truthfulness isn't particularly relevant to his alignment.
Trying to decipher his role is a waste of time: In all honestly, Tric probably doesn't even understand it well enough to tell us honestly if he was inclined to do so.
(TRIC: THIS HELPS YOU SO SHUT UP, YOU ARE NOT GETTING VOTED)

WHY ARE YOU GOING TO BAT FOR TRICMAGIC? HIS TRUTHFULNESS IS PRETTY DAMN RELEVANT TO HIS ALIGNMENT FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

IF YOU CAN GET TRICMAGIC TO CONFIRM THAT HE FAKECLAIMED HIS ONE SHOT AND THE REASON WHY I'LL CONSIDER NOT IMMEDIATELY VOTING HIM OR YOU.

Tric could be the killer (he shoots 4mask or Jim and its redirected back onto him in a hilarious sequence.)

CAN'T BE TRICMAGIC. WEBADICT TELLS ME I WOULD'VE SEEN HIM.

IN THE WORLD WHERE TRICMAGIC IS TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS ONE SHOT, ANYBODY COULD BE A KILLER.
IN THE WORLD WHERE TRICMAGIC IS LYING ABOUT HIS ONE SHOT IT CAN ONLY BE EUCHREJACK OR RODEN. (I MEAN I GUESS IT COULD BE TOONYMAN BUT I DOUBT IT.)

So is this just an OMGUS Jack or can you muster a reason to vote me? If you're unvoting 4mask because he can't be the killer, why are you voting me? I'm confirmed not the killer unless you think the team is me and Roden?
Why are you confirmed to not be the killer?
You really asking me this??? When you were the one who confirmed my tracking? WOW

LMFAO

TOUCHÉ

UNVOTE.

ANYWAYS I'M GOING TO PRETEND THE REASON I'M UNVOTING YOU WAS BECAUSE OF THIS AMAZING COMEBACK.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 05:47:37 pm
So is this just an OMGUS Jack or can you muster a reason to vote me? If you're unvoting 4mask because he can't be the killer, why are you voting me? I'm confirmed not the killer unless you think the team is me and Roden?
Why are you confirmed to not be the killer?
You really asking me this??? When you were the one who confirmed my tracking? WOW
You made a massive fuss about being "forced" to claim after I share my tracking attempt result and now you're conveniently forgetting all that, huh?
No, I remember that. Why does that clear you? Mafia can have factional Multitasking, or at the very least role-specific Multitasking. With the amount of power town has, there's no reason not to expect that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 05:50:13 pm
If your only case for why you're clear is that town has the power of multiple gods and mafia has two sticks and a ball of lint, uhhh yeah I'm not believing that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 05:51:22 pm
Reads List:
Almost certainly town:
Toony
Jim

Probably town but need to check again:
Max

Working on it:
Roden
NQT

Contradictory claim, probably a wolf:
TricMagic

Just a wolf:
EuchreJack
... Just reading this hardens my mind you're the mafia here 4mask. What about my role stands out as contradictory?


Jack, please not I've already revealed my role at this point. Pony is very much out of the pastures.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 05:51:58 pm
So is this just an OMGUS Jack or can you muster a reason to vote me? If you're unvoting 4mask because he can't be the killer, why are you voting me? I'm confirmed not the killer unless you think the team is me and Roden?
Why are you confirmed to not be the killer?
You really asking me this??? When you were the one who confirmed my tracking? WOW
I did two actions at night, why couldn't mafia too?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 05:52:32 pm
Woke up about an hour ago, just finished catching up. We have a bit more than I expected so that's good at least. At least I won't be here just for the last ten minutes again.

Ok so first off, anyone noticing how I and others said "NQT/4mask is the solve" and they didn't give a shit until the deadline reared its head? NQT went from calling me obvscum and shading Tric to teaming up with 4mask to attack Jack and overwhelm him. Their attack on him feels very obviously coordinated and like a last minute hail mary.

I'm pretty certain this is town!Jack, his behavior all day has been his townie self and his reaction to pressure from the NQT/4mask double team gave me war flashbacks to the newbie set up we did a while back. I genuinely don't think he's mafia here, and you all can complain about meta all you want but this isn't just a meta read, it's a read on play and behavior.

I still want NQT voted out today if possible.
I'll be real with you, the reason I haven't been here at all D2 was one of my friends got me into Bridgerton so I had 16 hours of show to watch in addition to my classes starting again this week.

Reads List:
Almost certainly town:
Toony
Jim

Probably town but need to check again:
Max

Working on it:
Roden
NQT

Contradictory claim, probably a wolf:
TricMagic

Just a wolf:
EuchreJack
... Just reading this hardens my mind you're the mafia here 4mask. What about my role stands out as contradictory?


Jack, please not I've already revealed my role at this point. Pony is very much out of the pastures.
I clarified what I meant later, and I already pointed out where your claim felt sketch.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 05:52:59 pm
TRICMAGIC

ANSWER ME

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

IF YOU DON'T ANSWER I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT THE ANSWER IS YES.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 05:55:09 pm
While we're at it...

Does someone want to remind me whether Max or Euchre's claims were in any way confirmed... and why people are sure Tric's revive wasn't a free action? And what's the deal with 4masks argument here?

Also, Roden is still most likely scum but I'd like to see why people think that's not the case.
My revival was an auto-thing tied to my Friend being alive at that point. My Sacrifice removed that auto, meaning I'm mortal. I still have my Doctor action.
4mask, seeing the next message, what about this is non-sensical?

Going through stuff Jim.
TRICMAGIC

ANSWER ME

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

IF YOU DON'T ANSWER I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT THE ANSWER IS YES.
No, just freaking no. I died last night and came back to life. No-one else died. Why do you think I'd make a fake-claim as anything but mafia?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 05:56:58 pm
HOWEVER, nobody has counter claimed Cop in any way shape or form.  We also have allegedly three millers.  So I'm inclined to think Max is our Town Cop.
This is way off from Euchrejack— What reason do you have to think there definitely would be a cop or that there would only be one? (Multiple players may have investigative one-shots— indeed the game started with various peek claims). More pressingly, why are you trying to role fish here, baiting a cop to claim?
?
NQT, all of those fake-claims were later said to be jokes. What are you playing at?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 05:57:08 pm
I remember Jim said this on Day 1:

EUCHREJACK/TRICMAGIC SCUMTEAM? EUCHREJACK IS ACTING LIKE ALREADY FOUND OUT SCUM FOR SOME REASON.

I could see Jack/Tric trying to kill Jim on N1 for this statement, but the kill instead getting sent to 4mask and then to Tric.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 05:57:27 pm
While we're at it...

Does someone want to remind me whether Max or Euchre's claims were in any way confirmed... and why people are sure Tric's revive wasn't a free action? And what's the deal with 4masks argument here?

Also, Roden is still most likely scum but I'd like to see why people think that's not the case.
My revival was an auto-thing tied to my Friend being alive at that point. My Sacrifice removed that auto, meaning I'm mortal. I still have my Doctor action.
4mask, seeing the next message, what about this is non-sensical?
I'm not repeating things I've already said.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 05:58:11 pm
If I believe Jim and 4mask, and ignore NQT's paranoia of Roden then:

Jack killed his partner Tric last night.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 05:59:28 pm
Ok here's my suggestion.

Lynch one of NQT/4mask.
I vig the other.
Jack Tracks me.
Max Cops Tric.
Tric Docs Toony.
Toony removes a Miller passive and holsters thevBus Drive.
Jim sits there and looks pretty.

I believe this prevents any and all fuckery with night actions. If something goes wrong, we know exactly where it went wrong and leave Mafia with very little wiggle room to fake claim.

Does this seem fine?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 06:01:20 pm
Jim can not be confirmed, and his explanation makes it really easy to explain not being killed
@Roden: Test by shooting Jim if you think 4maskwolf looks scummy.

I gotta do something. Dunno if I will be around for End of Day, but don't vote me just because I am (Looking at you, Tric!)

Only able to briefly skim as I was driving, later folks
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:02:13 pm
Ok here's my suggestion.

Lynch one of NQT/4mask.
I vig the other.
Jack Tracks me.
Max Cops Tric.
Tric Docs Toony.
Toony removes a Miller passive and holsters thevBus Drive.
Jim sits there and looks pretty.

I believe this prevents any and all fuckery with night actions. If something goes wrong, we know exactly where it went wrong and leave Mafia with very little wiggle room to fake claim.

Does this seem fine?
Except if you and Jack, Jack and Max, or Max and Tric are wolves together?

There's a ton of holes in this plan.

Jack and Max is even a reasonable scumteam, they could have coordinated some fake investigative fakeclaims. I'm not super sold on Max wolf but the point is there's a million ways this could go wrong.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:02:53 pm
Ok here's my suggestion.

Lynch one of NQT/4mask.
I vig the other.
Jack Tracks me.
Max Cops Tric.
Tric Docs Toony.
Toony removes a Miller passive and holsters thevBus Drive.
Jim sits there and looks pretty.

I believe this prevents any and all fuckery with night actions. If something goes wrong, we know exactly where it went wrong and leave Mafia with very little wiggle room to fake claim.

Does this seem fine?
The vig yes. Doc-ing Toony no. I was going to Doc Max, with the expectation that Toony would bus me and someone else. If Max or I end up dead, something is clearly up.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 06:03:10 pm
TRICMAGIC

ANSWER ME

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

IF YOU DON'T ANSWER I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT THE ANSWER IS YES.
No, just freaking no. I died last night and came back to life. No-one else died. Why do you think I'd make a fake-claim as anything but mafia?

YOU'VE DONE IT BEFORE.

THE GAME BECOMES A LOT EASIER TO SOLVE IF YOU'RE FAKE CLAIMING ABOUT THE SACRIFICE ONE SHOT.

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT I AM GOING TO SAY THIS BUT EVEN IF YOU WERE FAKECLAIMING THAT'S STILL SOMETHING I COULD SEE YOU DOING AS TOWN. I WOULD BE REALLY ANNOYED ABOUT IT BUT I STILL COULD SEE IT HAPPENING.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:03:33 pm
There's a whole bunch of other holes in that too but I'm pretty sure Jim and Toony are town at this point.

You could make the same argument for basically any two players who don't involve you, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:05:42 pm
Max perfectly timed that vote shift yesterday.
I want to know who Toony targeted last night though.

CONSIDERING HOW MUCH SCREECHING TRICMAGIC DID ON DAY 1 ABOUT TOONYMAN WIPING HIS AUTOS I DON'T KNOW WHY TRICMAGIC IS INTERESTED IN WHAT TOONYMAN DID DURING NIGHT 1 IF HE KNOWS HE SHOT OFF A ONE SHOT THAT WIPED HIS REVIVING AUTO.

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

@Jim: I'm unclear on what is your claimed night action.  I see you are confused as well.  Could you lay out all the information you have from the night phase in one post, so I can actually understand it?

DURING DAY 1 I CHOSE 4MASKWOLF. WHILE 4MASKWOLF IS ALIVE ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGET ME TARGET HIM INSTEAD, EXCEPT FOR ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF DOES THAT TARGET ME.
DURING NIGHT 1 I CHOSE TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF.

.... Context is important. Note the very calm text? I wasn't going to claim that I did that till after most everyone had claimed. Hence potentially catching people in a lie. 4mask did not do well during that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:06:16 pm
Max perfectly timed that vote shift yesterday.
I want to know who Toony targeted last night though.

CONSIDERING HOW MUCH SCREECHING TRICMAGIC DID ON DAY 1 ABOUT TOONYMAN WIPING HIS AUTOS I DON'T KNOW WHY TRICMAGIC IS INTERESTED IN WHAT TOONYMAN DID DURING NIGHT 1 IF HE KNOWS HE SHOT OFF A ONE SHOT THAT WIPED HIS REVIVING AUTO.

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

@Jim: I'm unclear on what is your claimed night action.  I see you are confused as well.  Could you lay out all the information you have from the night phase in one post, so I can actually understand it?

DURING DAY 1 I CHOSE 4MASKWOLF. WHILE 4MASKWOLF IS ALIVE ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGET ME TARGET HIM INSTEAD, EXCEPT FOR ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF DOES THAT TARGET ME.
DURING NIGHT 1 I CHOSE TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF.

.... Context is important. Note the very calm text? I wasn't going to claim that I did that till after most everyone had claimed. Hence potentially catching people in a lie. 4mask did not do well during that.
What are you even talking about lmao. My claim is literally confirmed by Jim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:06:55 pm
Tric and Euchre really want to kill me (and Euchre wants to kill Jim) all of a sudden.

I wonder why.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:08:05 pm
I really really believe Jim is town this game, and that my paranoia of the Jim/4mask team is annoying the hell out of me. I'm going to look fucking stupid if I'm wrong, but I don't think Jim is mafia and I could only see 4mask with Jim honestly. 4mask/NQT seems like wishful thinking to me...

I need to be final at this point in the day.

I'm going to believe in Jim (who believed in me EOD1) and I will not be voting 4mask today.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 06:08:54 pm
Roden's plan explicitly calls for being tracked when he says he can avoid being tracked. Interesting.

It's a dumb plan because it doesn't hit the most likely killer.

Also any plan with a fixed vig target is super dumb when we know that people can bus, redirect, block, etc etc.

---

Tric, I'm not saying they weren't jokes. I'm saying that no one at the time doubted that there could be multiple rolecop powers floating around. It's a wuba game, with all kinds of shenanigans. Its bizarre and frankly scummy that this is the line some players thing is beyond the pale.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:09:37 pm
I really really believe Jim is town this game, and that my paranoia of the Jim/4mask team is annoying the hell out of me. I'm going to look fucking stupid if I'm wrong, but I don't think Jim is mafia and I could only see 4mask with Jim honestly. 4mask/NQT seems like wishful thinking to me...

I need to be final at this point in the day.

I'm going to believe in Jim (who believed in me EOD1) and I will not be voting 4mask today.
Believe in the Jim who believes in you!

God I don't even like that anime why is that the first thing that came into my mind.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 06:10:41 pm
The entire point of those specific actions in my suggested plan is that it spews teams if mafia don't kill me tonight and NQT/4mask both flip town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:10:56 pm
Tric could be the killer (he shoots 4mask or Jim and its redirected back onto him in a hilarious sequence.)

Roden could be the killer, as I've made clear earlier. (He's explicitly not a real commuter, he didn't leave the town, his kill couldn't have been tracked by me or Toony).

Or it's Jack, who has an unverifiable claim.

If these are the only possible killers then we need to shoot in this pool.
Point 1, I would shoot Toony every time. Points 2 and 3, claims meant to cast shade.
Why would I shoot 4mask? Moreover, I set up my role from day 1. MYROLEMYROLEYROLE, as Jim put well. If this is just some fancy trick, that I'm mafia? Then there were no kill actions last night, I just self-terminated.


Roden's plan explicitly calls for being tracked when he says he can avoid being tracked. Interesting.

It's a dumb plan because it doesn't hit the most likely killer.

Also any plan with a fixed vig target is super dumb when we know that people can bus, redirect, block, etc etc.

---

Tric, I'm not saying they weren't jokes. I'm saying that no one at the time doubted that there could be multiple rolecop powers floating around. It's a wuba game, with all kinds of shenanigans. Its bizarre and frankly scummy that this is the line some players thing is beyond the pale.
See above. Also, no other cops have come forth, and now's the time to do so, not Day 3.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:11:47 pm
The entire point of those specific actions in my suggested plan is that it spews teams if mafia don't kill me tonight and NQT/4mask both flip town.
Except it doesn't because there's multiple confirmable claims and multiple points of failure where different wolfteams could have the same overall result.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:12:15 pm
*unconfirmed claims
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 06:13:09 pm
Roden's plan explicitly calls for being tracked when he says he can avoid being tracked. Interesting.

It's a dumb plan because it doesn't hit the most likely killer.

Also any plan with a fixed vig target is super dumb when we know that people can bus, redirect, block, etc etc.

---

Tric, I'm not saying they weren't jokes. I'm saying that no one at the time doubted that there could be multiple rolecop powers floating around. It's a wuba game, with all kinds of shenanigans. Its bizarre and frankly scummy that this is the line some players thing is beyond the pale.
My Commute is an action, not a passive. I can be Tracked if I choose a different action.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 1: Murder Most Foul [9 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:14:37 pm
I remember Jim said this on Day 1:

EUCHREJACK/TRICMAGIC SCUMTEAM? EUCHREJACK IS ACTING LIKE ALREADY FOUND OUT SCUM FOR SOME REASON.

I could see Jack/Tric trying to kill Jim on N1 for this statement, but the kill instead getting sent to 4mask and then to Tric.
kicks feet about. Wasn't very subtle huh? Given I literally befriended jack in the thread. I do admit that is the kind of crazy gambit Jack and I might do but...
The rest of the starting day kinda hints against it unless we've both had a massive boost in skill. Or have been working at cross-purposes without communicating in the mafiachat.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:16:17 pm
Tric you sound like a cartoon villain right now.

My Commute is an action, not a passive. I can be Tracked if I choose a different action.
Yes.
I believe you Roden.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:16:58 pm
Max perfectly timed that vote shift yesterday.
I want to know who Toony targeted last night though.

CONSIDERING HOW MUCH SCREECHING TRICMAGIC DID ON DAY 1 ABOUT TOONYMAN WIPING HIS AUTOS I DON'T KNOW WHY TRICMAGIC IS INTERESTED IN WHAT TOONYMAN DID DURING NIGHT 1 IF HE KNOWS HE SHOT OFF A ONE SHOT THAT WIPED HIS REVIVING AUTO.

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

@Jim: I'm unclear on what is your claimed night action.  I see you are confused as well.  Could you lay out all the information you have from the night phase in one post, so I can actually understand it?

DURING DAY 1 I CHOSE 4MASKWOLF. WHILE 4MASKWOLF IS ALIVE ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGET ME TARGET HIM INSTEAD, EXCEPT FOR ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF DOES THAT TARGET ME.
DURING NIGHT 1 I CHOSE TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF.

.... Context is important. Note the very calm text? I wasn't going to claim that I did that till after most everyone had claimed. Hence potentially catching people in a lie. 4mask did not do well during that.
What are you even talking about lmao. My claim is literally confirmed by Jim.
Mechaincs, mechanics, mechaincs. Are you some sort of scrap mechanic? Cause you seem more interested in those than the social aspect of things.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 06:18:50 pm
Tric you really rolefishing for the people with cop powers. How would them claiming remotely help anything other than give scum more of an idea who to target?

If there really are multiple millers in the game (and I'm not convinced as I said before), then having lots of cop powers isn't unbalanced.

--

Roden and Toony, weren't you literally just saying that scum may have multiple actions? How does Roden's claim that his commute is an action toggle mean anything for his plan? If he's scum he's a liar.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 06:19:46 pm
I remember Jim said this on Day 1:

EUCHREJACK/TRICMAGIC SCUMTEAM? EUCHREJACK IS ACTING LIKE ALREADY FOUND OUT SCUM FOR SOME REASON.

I could see Jack/Tric trying to kill Jim on N1 for this statement, but the kill instead getting sent to 4mask and then to Tric.
kicks feet about. Wasn't very subtle huh? Given I literally befriended jack in the thread. I do admit that is the kind of crazy gambit Jack and I might do but...
The rest of the starting day kinda hints against it unless we've both had a massive boost in skill. Or have been working at cross-purposes without communicating in the mafiachat.

I THINK THIS IS THE STRANGEST TRICMAGIC POST I HAVE EVER SEEN.

I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER SEEN YOU ATTEMPT AN APPEAL TO YOUR OWN META.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:20:21 pm
Max perfectly timed that vote shift yesterday.
I want to know who Toony targeted last night though.

CONSIDERING HOW MUCH SCREECHING TRICMAGIC DID ON DAY 1 ABOUT TOONYMAN WIPING HIS AUTOS I DON'T KNOW WHY TRICMAGIC IS INTERESTED IN WHAT TOONYMAN DID DURING NIGHT 1 IF HE KNOWS HE SHOT OFF A ONE SHOT THAT WIPED HIS REVIVING AUTO.

TRICMAGIC BE HONEST NOW,

YOUR ONE SHOT SACRIFICE CLAIM IS FAKE.

@Jim: I'm unclear on what is your claimed night action.  I see you are confused as well.  Could you lay out all the information you have from the night phase in one post, so I can actually understand it?

DURING DAY 1 I CHOSE 4MASKWOLF. WHILE 4MASKWOLF IS ALIVE ALL ACTIONS THAT TARGET ME TARGET HIM INSTEAD, EXCEPT FOR ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF DOES THAT TARGET ME.
DURING NIGHT 1 I CHOSE TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF.

.... Context is important. Note the very calm text? I wasn't going to claim that I did that till after most everyone had claimed. Hence potentially catching people in a lie. 4mask did not do well during that.
What are you even talking about lmao. My claim is literally confirmed by Jim.
Mechaincs, mechanics, mechaincs. Are you some sort of scrap mechanic? Cause you seem more interested in those than the social aspect of things.
Toony's right, you do sound like a cartoon villain

"I don't care that your role is mechanically confirmed, you did poorly in claiming."
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 06:21:10 pm
Oh I get it, you believe he can make himself trackable for the plan. Yes, that part is believable.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:21:26 pm
My case on you, Tric, is literally a blending of mechanics and social things.

You even responded to it, so you know damn well what my case on you was.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:22:16 pm
Tric you sound like a cartoon villain right now.

My Commute is an action, not a passive. I can be Tracked if I choose a different action.
Yes.
I believe you Roden.
I mean, that is the sort of thing I'd try as mafia.
And yeah, Commute would have to be an action in this case with the other millers powers.


Tric you really rolefishing for the people with cop powers. How would them claiming remotely help anything other than give scum more of an idea who to target?

If there really are multiple millers in the game (and I'm not convinced as I said before), then having lots of cop powers isn't unbalanced.

--

Roden and Toony, weren't you literally just saying that scum may have multiple actions? How does Roden's claim that his commute is an action toggle mean anything for his plan? If he's scum he's a liar.
It is unbalanced though. 2 cops, a doctor, multiple millers, trackers, bussing, and revival floating about. Plus a double vote via count and your own claimed role. Something doesn't fit.

Also, them counterclaiming cop is a valid strat to prevent the mafia-cop claim from gaining steam. They are likely to have targeted different people, and only 1 is correct. And the correct cop will either have found mafia or have a townie on their side.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:22:17 pm
Roden and Toony, weren't you literally just saying that scum may have multiple actions? How does Roden's claim that his commute is an action toggle mean anything for his plan? If he's scum he's a liar.
Unlike stone-hearted NQT, I believe Roden is telling the truth fully about their whole Dark Souls Havel role.

I THINK THIS IS THE STRANGEST TRICMAGIC POST I HAVE EVER SEEN.
Right now I think I'm going to vote NQT or Tric for D2.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:23:39 pm
Roden and Toony, weren't you literally just saying that scum may have multiple actions? How does Roden's claim that his commute is an action toggle mean anything for his plan? If he's scum he's a liar.
Unlike stone-hearted NQT, I believe Roden is telling the truth fully about their whole Dark Souls Havel role.

I THINK THIS IS THE STRANGEST TRICMAGIC POST I HAVE EVER SEEN.
Right now I think I'm going to vote NQT or Tric for D2.
... Good point. TricMagic
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 06:24:46 pm
... Good point. TricMagic

ALRIGHT, FUCK IT.

TRICMAGIC IT IS THEN.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 06:25:27 pm
... Good point. TricMagic

ALRIGHT, FUCK IT.

TRICMAGIC IT IS THEN.

"WHY DIDN'T YOU VOTE HIM?"

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE VOTES STAND.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:26:25 pm
Note this is basically lynching the town doctor, so the vig better make their shot count.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:26:49 pm
Tric why are you self-voting?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:27:53 pm
... Good point. TricMagic

ALRIGHT, FUCK IT.

TRICMAGIC IT IS THEN.
I think it's like
NQT 2 Jack 2 Tric 1

With Max, Toony, and you not voting.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:28:18 pm
I THINK THIS IS THE STRANGEST TRICMAGIC POST I HAVE EVER SEEN.
Right now I think I'm going to vote NQT or Tric for D2.
Cause at this point, I really really do not trust you. And the vote against 4mask has evaporated. Better a hammerblow to the minds of others to really drive the point home.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:29:29 pm
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/306758456998887429/743517751405969508/image0.png)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 30, 2022, 06:31:09 pm
Roden and Toony, weren't you literally just saying that scum may have multiple actions? How does Roden's claim that his commute is an action toggle mean anything for his plan? If he's scum he's a liar.
Unlike stone-hearted NQT, I believe Roden is telling the truth fully about their whole Dark Souls Havel role.

I THINK THIS IS THE STRANGEST TRICMAGIC POST I HAVE EVER SEEN.
Right now I think I'm going to vote NQT or Tric for D2.
... Good point. TricMagic
What the fuck
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 06:31:26 pm
I lost electricity for a while, I have way too much still to read, but 4maskwolf is my first instinct. Maybe I take it back, we'll see.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 06:32:12 pm
Quote from: JIM'S VOTECOUNT
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 - Maximum Spin,
EuchreJack - 2 - 4maskwolf, notquitethere,
notquitethere - 1 - Roden,
Jim Groovester - 1 - EuchreJack,
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 1 - TricMagic,
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - ToonyMan, Jim Groovester

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (ROUGHLY 1.5 HOURS I THINK)

Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:32:26 pm
Tric if you're going to kill yourself again at least give a nice summary of your reads with a full-rundown of your role.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:33:05 pm
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/306758456998887429/743517751405969508/image0.png)
/\
This is what got away from the votes. Somehow.


I lost electricity for a while, I have way too much still to read, but 4maskwolf is my first instinct. Maybe I take it back, we'll see.
Thank you.. 4maskwolf
I'll change back if he slips back to just my vote. Not like it matters if it's at 2/everyone else is too.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:33:21 pm
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/306758456998887429/743517751405969508/image0.png)
I can't think of a game I've played where mafia self-vote, can somebody find a game I was in where mafia self-voted?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 06:33:39 pm
Euchre, you must see that it's highly unlikely that this set up would have a pure cop. Everyone has bizarro roles, no?
I'm not a pure cop and I said I wasn't a pure cop. I'm a cop, a rolecop, and can [OTHER THING], at my leisure. If I rolecop someone I can then copcop that person for free afterward, but I didn't bother because I wanted more useful information and I never really saw much value in rolecopping in a BYOR.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:34:37 pm
*eyes dart back and forth quickly*

Holy vote swapping batman
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:35:31 pm
Quote from: JIM'S VOTECOUNT
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 - Maximum Spin,
EuchreJack - 2 - 4maskwolf, notquitethere,
notquitethere - 1 - Roden,
Jim Groovester - 1 - EuchreJack,
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 1 - TricMagic,
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - ToonyMan, Jim Groovester

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (ROUGHLY 1.5 HOURS I THINK)

This wagon formation always catches a wolf :wowee:

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/306758456998887429/743517751405969508/image0.png)
I can't think of a game I've played where mafia self-vote, can somebody find a game I was in where mafia self-voted?
I can't think of a game where anyone has self-voted.

Also I was really just using that as an excuse to shamelessly steal that meme from Mafia Universe.

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/306758456998887429/743517751405969508/image0.png)
/\
This is what got away from the votes. Somehow.
This is seriously the most no thoughts head empty statement I've ever read. I posted a meme therefore I'm a wolf?

Euchre, you must see that it's highly unlikely that this set up would have a pure cop. Everyone has bizarro roles, no?
I'm not a pure cop and I said I wasn't a pure cop. I'm a cop, a rolecop, and can [OTHER THING], at my leisure. If I rolecop someone I can then copcop that person for free afterward, but I didn't bother because I wanted more useful information and I never really saw much value in rolecopping in a BYOR.
Godfathers, presumably?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:36:53 pm
Tric if you're going to kill yourself again at least give a nice summary of your reads with a full-rundown of your role.
... Already did. Auto that lets me befriend someone at the start of day 1, allowing me to revive so long as they are alive. Doctor ability. And a 1-shot Sacrifice that kills me but prevents other deaths that night. If I have my auto, it also removes it after I'm revived..

As for reads... We got 3 millers, I believe Roden and Jim are town. I don't actually trust you or max, hence if I died tonight, I'd want your actions looked at. 4mask is probably mafia. And NQT is just... NQT. I can never read him it seems.

Jack is Jack, he doesn't exactly inspire towniness in me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 06:38:20 pm
Toony, it's not super common on Bay12 but I saw mafia self voting all the time in champ games. It can be basic emotional manipulation or throwing-in-the-towel.

I don't know whether this is a trick or whether this is magic.

--
Max, this is exactly what I'm saying. This "the other cop would counter claim" business is nonsense. Anyway what with Roden, Euchre and Tric's shenanigans, I've moved back into thinking you're more likely town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 06:39:25 pm
Tric? What the hell was that? Why? What??
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:40:35 pm
I'll note if the vote is tied mafia get to choose who dies. And right now there are 2 votes on Jack from NQT/4mask.


Toony, pretty much Toony. I don't like setups. Saying you'd make a vote ahead of time when it's likely NQT will be dead? I'd rather self-lynch to deny that entirely.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 06:41:47 pm
SO 4MASKWOLF POSTULATES THAT TRICMAGIC WAS THE VICTIM OF THE NIGHT KILL. SO THE ONLY WAY THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED IS IF THE KILLER TARGETED 4MASKWOLF DIRECTLY OR TARGETED ME SINCE I REDIRECTED EVERYTHING TARGETING ME (EXCEPT ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF TARGETED ME WITH) TO 4MASKWOLF, AND THEN TOONYMAN'S BUSSING SWAPPED TRICMAGIC'S AND 4MASKWOLF'S PLACES.

I WAS WATCHING 4MASKWOLF AND BECAUSE OF TOONYMAN'S BUSSING OF 4MASKWOLF AND TRICMAGIC I ENDED UP WATCHING TRICMAGIC. I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT.
This is super important and I'm not at all angry that nobody remembers I pointed out exactly this like yesterday. ONLY ToonyMan could have killed TricMagic, and, if ToonyMan did it, he drew attention to the fact that the redirects would shake out this way since he explained that his auto-scrubber went from Jim → 4mask → TricMagic too.

In other words, EITHER TricMagic was not the kill target OR ToonyMan is stupid, can't go any other way. I'm willing to buy either, sorry ToonyMan, but you at least have to convince me.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be nice if webadict were still around so we could ask whether, if someone did two actions on the same target, that person would appear to a watcher once or twice?

Euchre, you must see that it's highly unlikely that this set up would have a pure cop. Everyone has bizarro roles, no?
I'm not a pure cop and I said I wasn't a pure cop. I'm a cop, a rolecop, and can [OTHER THING], at my leisure. If I rolecop someone I can then copcop that person for free afterward, but I didn't bother because I wanted more useful information and I never really saw much value in rolecopping in a BYOR.
Godfathers, presumably?
I'm not caught up, I just saw this while posting, but I want to point out: no, useless, even if ToonyMan (say) is a godfather then his role is still just whatever dumb thing he submitted, it won't SAY whether he is a godfather or not, all I could do is say "well maybe it would make sense for him to be a godfather with this role" but that's no more or less than I can already do. If you saw my rolename it wouldn't tell you anything useful, although you could correctly infer that I probably have some kind of inspect.

Max, this is exactly what I'm saying. This "the other cop would counter claim" business is nonsense. Anyway what with Roden, Euchre and Tric's shenanigans, I've moved back into thinking you're more likely town.
It's not nonsense, literally no other person has claimed to be any kind of cop, which should suggest to you that nobody else is any kind of cop.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:41:49 pm
Tric if you're going to kill yourself again at least give a nice summary of your reads with a full-rundown of your role.
... Already did. Auto that lets me befriend someone at the start of day 1, allowing me to revive so long as they are alive. Doctor ability. And a 1-shot Sacrifice that kills me but prevents other deaths that night. If I have my auto, it also removes it after I'm revived..
Name drop everything about your role. The name of your role and the name of every ability.

This is important.


@NQT:
I am also fairly confident that Max is town, NQT.

Also Tric has already revealed these details before I guess you missed that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:42:43 pm
SO 4MASKWOLF POSTULATES THAT TRICMAGIC WAS THE VICTIM OF THE NIGHT KILL. SO THE ONLY WAY THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED IS IF THE KILLER TARGETED 4MASKWOLF DIRECTLY OR TARGETED ME SINCE I REDIRECTED EVERYTHING TARGETING ME (EXCEPT ACTIONS 4MASKWOLF TARGETED ME WITH) TO 4MASKWOLF, AND THEN TOONYMAN'S BUSSING SWAPPED TRICMAGIC'S AND 4MASKWOLF'S PLACES.

I WAS WATCHING 4MASKWOLF AND BECAUSE OF TOONYMAN'S BUSSING OF 4MASKWOLF AND TRICMAGIC I ENDED UP WATCHING TRICMAGIC. I ONLY SAW TOONYMAN VISIT.
This is super important and I'm not at all angry that nobody remembers I pointed out exactly this like yesterday. ONLY ToonyMan could have killed TricMagic, and, if ToonyMan did it, he drew attention to the fact that the redirects would shake out this way since he explained that his auto-scrubber went from Jim → 4mask → TricMagic too.

In other words, EITHER TricMagic was not the kill target OR ToonyMan is stupid, can't go any other way. I'm willing to buy either, sorry ToonyMan, but you at least have to convince me.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be nice if webadict were still around so we could ask whether, if someone did two actions on the same target, that person would appear to a watcher once or twice?

Euchre, you must see that it's highly unlikely that this set up would have a pure cop. Everyone has bizarro roles, no?
I'm not a pure cop and I said I wasn't a pure cop. I'm a cop, a rolecop, and can [OTHER THING], at my leisure. If I rolecop someone I can then copcop that person for free afterward, but I didn't bother because I wanted more useful information and I never really saw much value in rolecopping in a BYOR.
Godfathers, presumably?
I'm not caught up, I just saw this while posting, but I want to point out: no, useless, even if ToonyMan (say) is a godfather then his role is still just whatever dumb thing he submitted, it won't SAY whether he is a godfather or not, all I could do is say "well maybe it would make sense for him to be a godfather with this role" but that's no more or less than I can already do. If you saw my rolename it wouldn't tell you anything useful, although you could correctly infer that I probably have some kind of inspect.

Max, this is exactly what I'm saying. This "the other cop would counter claim" business is nonsense. Anyway what with Roden, Euchre and Tric's shenanigans, I've moved back into thinking you're more likely town.
It's not nonsense, literally no other person has claimed to be any kind of cop, which should suggest to you that nobody else is any kind of cop.
Ooooooooooh that's what you meant by rolecop.

Yeah that's of somewhat niche utility, at least for the town. Generally anti-claim mechanics are added to the wolves or third parties.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 06:43:33 pm
Also Max you also are forgetting that multiple people have openly claimed to be unfindable when they perform actions.

Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 06:45:22 pm
You’re forgetting Euchre, Jim. He already claimed to have a ninja-like ability that makes him unnoticeable when acting.
In all fairness, from what I can tell, there is absolutely no way that you can see me. So if I got caught up in that mess, you would not know.
Okay no I didn't know you had ever claimed this, when did that happen? I guess it doesn't matter currently anyway.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 06:47:17 pm
Max,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 06:50:44 pm
Tric if you're going to kill yourself again at least give a nice summary of your reads with a full-rundown of your role.
... Already did. Auto that lets me befriend someone at the start of day 1, allowing me to revive so long as they are alive. Doctor ability. And a 1-shot Sacrifice that kills me but prevents other deaths that night. If I have my auto, it also removes it after I'm revived..
Name drop everything about your role. The name of your role and the name of every ability.

This is important.


@NQT:
I am also fairly confident that Max is town, NQT.

Also Tric has already revealed these details before I guess you missed that.

? K then.
I am Pinkamena Diane Pie. My Auto is Friendship is Magic, my ability Laughter is the Best Medicine, and my 1-shot named Sacrifice.
You can just call me Pinkie Pie though. The actual role name is "Pinkie Pie Mafia Party!"
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:53:00 pm
I am Pinkamena Diane Pie. My Auto is Friendship is Magic, my ability Laughter is the Best Medicine, and my 1-shot named Sacrifice.
You can just call me Pinkie Pie though. The actual role name is "Pinkie Pie Mafia Party!"
Perfect.

Let's not vote Tric today.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 06:54:14 pm
Or is it just Max that's claiming there can only be one tracker and you that's claiming there's only one cop? I need to go back and check...
I never claimed this.
Also Max you also are forgetting that multiple people have openly claimed to be unfindable when they perform actions.
... multiple people now? I don't remember anyone claiming not to appear to a watcher (until EuchreJack JUST did that I just quoted). Not being impossible to track - obviously anyone who can't be targeted is - but not appearing when someone ELSE is targeted, which is more special.
Max,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I didn't actually say that, I said I like to do it in some contexts, not as a general rule. But uh, okay, sure, you claimed to have tracked someone, right? Investigative JOAT seems plausible, I wouldn't consider that the same thing because you don't have alignment results to claim. It probably contravenes what Jack was asserting about counterclaiming, sure, but I was saying something similar but different, and I only objected to you treating those two things as the same. I'm not here to defend what Jack said, I'm defending what I said.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 06:55:55 pm
(Petition to vote bronies on principle)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 06:57:15 pm
Why did I signup for this
This one I agree with.

...
(Petition to vote bronies on principle)
(This one too.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 06:57:41 pm
Pinkamena Diane Pie
Friendship is Magic
Laughter is the Best Medicine
Sacrifice

. . .

. . .

. . .

ONE OF THESE IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER.

(Petition to vote bronies on principle)

MOTION SECONDED.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 06:59:26 pm
Tric, I'll be trying to do something with you tonight. I have a really good plan and you'll see what I mean if it works.

Roden, I still want you to shoot 4mask tonight if possible.

NQT, who should I vote?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 07:00:29 pm
Pinkamena Diane Pie
Friendship is Magic
Laughter is the Best Medicine
Sacrifice

. . .

. . .

. . .

ONE OF THESE IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER.

RAINBOWS AND SHIT

LAUGHTER

BRIGHT PASTEL COLORS

S A C R I F I C E
A C R I F I C E
C R I F I C E
R I F I C E
I F I C E
F I C E
I C E
C E
E
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 07:01:35 pm
Understood Max.

---

Does anyone else think anything is wrong with Jack's vote on Jim?

It's like I told him his vote on me was just omgus and he decided to pick the one player least likely to get traction at end if day. Is he trying to get scum? No.

--

Jim... I've not watched the show but maybe the character sacrifices themselves? Do cartoon ponies do the Aslan thing?

--

Toony, Euchrejack. Roden's power is at least theoretically confirmable.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 07:03:23 pm
We're not voting TricMagic. I need him for...T H E P L A N
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2022, 07:03:38 pm
Although... scumroden is in the best place if people think he's town vig, as he just says the kill was his and mafia holstered and any track will confirm this.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 07:04:46 pm
We're not voting TricMagic. I need him for...T H E P L A N

Ominous.
To be fair, I've never watched the actual show either, just read a lot of MLP loops at some point.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 07:04:57 pm
Although... scumroden is in the best place if people think he's town vig, as he just says the kill was his and mafia holstered and any track will confirm this.
Claiming the mafia holstered is a much harder sell than you seem to think it is.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 07:05:39 pm
I'm busy with something. I'll be back before deadline to vote someone.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2022, 07:14:48 pm
I see the sacrifice thing making perfect sense for Tric's role, personally. It is an established mythopoeic trait of horse-adjacent magical creatures such as unicrons and pegases. That wasn't a typo.

Look you guys, I trust exactly zero of these millers and would be HAPPY to kill one, but everyone is being stupid this game and I don't understand why. You all also needed to ask more mechanical questions of webadict while you had the chance, for sure, but too late now. In any case, check back my last mechanical question to webadict and work out for yourselves a strategy taking advantage of the fact that there are two people claiming to have doctoring. It's possible to set these actions up in such a way that provides doctoring resistant to up to one lie, but you guys have got to decide who you trust more since someone has to be uncovered.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:21:24 pm
Unvote as shooting Jim is FAR better than lynching him.

So I am now available for end of day.
Going to read up on what I missed.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 07:22:06 pm
Does anyone else think anything is wrong with Jack's vote on Jim?

YES THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIS VOTE, BUT HOW MUCH INTENTION, HIDDEN OR OTHERWISE, COULD THERE BE WITH A PLAYER WHO BOUNCES AROUND SO FREQUENTLY REGARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCES?

THIS GAME IS REALLY TESTING MY PATIENCE FOR HOW MUCH I'M WILLING TO PUT UP WITH IT THOUGH.

We're not voting TricMagic. I need him for...T H E P L A N


ALRIGHT, FINE.

I WAS READY TO BELIEVE TRICMAGIC SINCE HE STUCK TO HIS GUNS ABOUT HIS ONE SHOT BUT THEN HIS FLAVOR CLAIM THREW ME OFF.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:34:20 pm
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/306758456998887429/743517751405969508/image0.png)
I can't think of a game I've played where mafia self-vote, can somebody find a game I was in where mafia self-voted?
Dude, it was almost exactly one year ago when you went to the Championship and one of your competitors self-voted to keep their mafia selves from getting ousted.
It was super effective THERE.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:47:10 pm
Tric if you're going to kill yourself again at least give a nice summary of your reads with a full-rundown of your role.
... Already did. Auto that lets me befriend someone at the start of day 1, allowing me to revive so long as they are alive. Doctor ability. And a 1-shot Sacrifice that kills me but prevents other deaths that night. If I have my auto, it also removes it after I'm revived..

As for reads... We got 3 millers, I believe Roden and Jim are town. I don't actually trust you or max, hence if I died tonight, I'd want your actions looked at. 4mask is probably mafia. And NQT is just... NQT. I can never read him it seems.

Jack is Jack, he doesn't exactly inspire towniness in me.

So with this claim, we should assume the kill could have been anyone if we believe Tric.  That opens up the field.

Tric, I'll be trying to do something with you tonight. I have a really good plan and you'll see what I mean if it works.

Roden, I still want you to shoot 4mask tonight if possible.

NQT, who should I vote?
@Toony & Roden: Jim claims that any action on him would go to 4mask.  Thus, why shoot 4mask when you can test Jim's claim?
If Jim is telling the truth, you prove it and kill 4mask (it is after all the reason Jim wants to keep 4mask alive, and why I unvoted Jim)
If Jim is lying mafia scum, then Roden kills lying mafia scum Jim.  Yay!

Then again, if THE PLAN requires Roden to shoot 4mask, hey you guys will work it out I guess.

@Tric: If it comes down to self voting, I'll self vote myself.  My role just makes me suspicious, so in the event of a ELO situation, I'm more of a liability.
It goes against the basic rule of "As a townie, you only know for sure that you are a townie", but my role just makes me look bad.  So better to take me out of the running now rather than get mislynched later.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:48:20 pm
The only reason I'm not revealing my role is because it only convinces Max that I'm town, and since everyone else thinks we're linked, this basically proves nothing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:53:35 pm
Unofficial Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 2 - Maximum Spin, TricMagic
EuchreJack - 2 - 4maskwolf, notquitethere,
notquitethere - 1 - Roden,
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Why are Toonyman & Jim not voting? Are they the scum team?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 07:54:54 pm
THERE'S TEN MINUTES LEFT.

I'VE BEEN REREADING THE LAST FIFTEEN OR SO PAGES OF THE GAME.

I DON'T REALLY WANT TO SEE NOTQUITETHERE LYNCHED ANYMORE. I'M STILL AMBIVALENT ABOUT RODEN BEING LYNCHED.

EUCHREJACK AGGRAVATES ME ON THE REREAD.

I THINK I'D PREFER TRICMAGIC HERE BUT TOONYMAN WANTS TO KEEP HIM AROUND. *shrug*
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:55:46 pm
Thanks for saving me from the self-voting.  Best to get my mislynch out of the way now.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 07:56:15 pm
Pretty much. At the moment though it's you and 4mask.

Toony is apparently going to vote later. Which.. Isn't great. It's these types of things which makes me mistrust him..

Or we could vote Jim out. Either or, but would rather remove 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on March 30, 2022, 07:57:06 pm
If 4mask is mafia, Jim is also possible mafia. Did anyone track him?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 07:57:37 pm
4maskwolf
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:58:02 pm
Pretty much. At the moment though it's you and 4mask.

Toony is apparently going to vote later. Which.. Isn't great. It's these types of things which makes me mistrust him..

Or we could vote Jim out. Either or, but would rather remove 4mask.

We can't vote Jim out.  It's 4mask or me.  And I just look worse.  And I'll look worse tomorrow, probably.
@Tric: Don't be an idiot in ELO.  That is where this is going, with probably Jim or Toony as scum.
The other one will probably be dead, unless Jim is telling the truth. 50/50 on that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:58:34 pm
4maskwolf
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 30, 2022, 07:59:06 pm
Getting sniped at the last second is a ton of fun :wowee:
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 07:59:19 pm
4maskwolf


I'm going to believe in Jim (who believed in me EOD1) and I will not be voting 4mask today.

HUH.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2022, 07:59:22 pm
EuchreJack
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 07:59:57 pm
Fuck you Toonyman!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2022, 08:00:37 pm
ALRIGHT WE'RE DONE.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 08:00:43 pm
END OF DAY STOP POSTING!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: EuchreJack on March 30, 2022, 08:02:58 pm
Last words: Eh, this was inevitable, I only blame the mafia for this.  Lasted longer than I expected. Good luck to Town, Mafia suck eggs and die!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 30, 2022, 08:43:55 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
EuchreJack - 4 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363462#msg8363462), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363491#msg8363491), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363662#msg8363662), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363671#msg8363671),
4maskwolf - 2 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363614#msg8363614), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363617#msg8363617),
notquitethere - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363065#msg8363065),
ToonyMan - 1 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363672#msg8363672),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

5 to Hammer. Day ends on March 30, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (-31 minutes remaining.)

EuchreJack has been chosen for elimination.


EuchreJack stands before the group, their target, and begins to monologue about how he'd have been better disguised if he were a murderer. He talks about the hidden leagues that he and his minions will perform, that once again, they will rise to power! The group murmurs and whispers about the shady figure, but several armed police officers escort him away, as he rants about the Illuminati or something.

"You've done well to remove such a shadowy figure. That man you removed was quite the infiltrator, working for several foreign agencies and feeding information." The group smiles, but the detective sighs.

"Unfortunately, while he may indeed be a spy, he is not a murderer. It is doubtless that his country will trade for his release, and he will disappear into the night."

The detective sits down, holding his head in his hands. One of the servants approaches him, but he motions her away. Through his fingers, his face is pale, and he quickly wipes his face with a handkerchief. "Let me be with my thoughts. I am disappointed, to say the least, but I shall recompose myself. Go. Join the festivities, and I shall have the servants fetch you when I am better."


EuchreJack has been executed.

EuchreJack was a Lizard (town).


It is now Night.

Quote
Role: Lizard
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead and at least one Town member is alive.

{PT} (Auto) Cold-Blooded: You cannot be tracked or roleblocked, and your actions cannot be seen by others. You inspect as Mafia.
{P10} (Night) Tail [target]: You secretly tail your target. You see who they visit.
{P10} (Night) Predator [target]: Your eyes are distinctly attuned to motion. You learn the number of Actions performed on and by your target. (This count does not include your Action(s).)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Night 2: Lizard Wizard [7 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on March 31, 2022, 09:08:21 pm
You arrive back at the room to find that Jim Groovester is no longer among you. After a brief wait, you realize that he will not be returning.

“Unfortunate,” the man in the checkered hat says. “I had believed he would find peace here. He only has so much time before the royal guards arrive to take him away, but I’m sure he realized that himself.”

The group is quiet, waiting to hear if Jim Groovester was one of their murderers, but you are not surprised when the man shakes his head.

“No. A bully, perhaps. A philanderer, indeed. A boisterous drunk, walking his way into trouble. Had he not made so many enemies, he would surely have been fine, but a murderer he is not. So, you have one less person to suspect.”

You begin the debate again, staring at the bloody knife before you.


Jim Groovester has died.

Jim Groovester was Caps Lock Jim Groovester from Double Agent Micro Mafia (town).


Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 6 - 4maskwolf, Maximum Spin, notquitethere, Roden, ToonyMan, TricMagic,

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~94 hours remaining).


It is now Day.

Quote
Role: Caps Lock Jim Groovester from Double Agent Micro Mafia
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead and at least one Town member is alive.

{PT} (Auto) Caps Lock: YOUR CONSTANT YELLING MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE MAFIA. Inspects targeting you show your alignment as Mafia.
{P4} (Auto) Cruise Control [target]: YOU ARE TOO COOL. During the first Day, you may target another Player. While the target is alive, all Actions are redirected to the target, except Actions performed by the target.
{P10} (Night) Who Did It [self]: WHO TARGETED YOU? Choose One - You learn all Players that targeted your target; OR you learn what Actions targeted your target; OR you learn who your target targeted; OR you learn what Action(s) your target performed. This Action specifically targets yourself and is affected by redirection.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 31, 2022, 09:10:30 pm
The good: I somehow didn’t die last night.

The bad: I was somehow hypnotized into killing Jim Groovester and one of my items got ganked.

TricMagic
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 31, 2022, 09:21:51 pm
NQT, you're not a pure Tracker. Full claim please.

Also can you guys please stop lynching my town reads?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on March 31, 2022, 09:23:53 pm
I also want Tric to claim who he targeted last night.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 31, 2022, 09:28:46 pm
Alright now that I'm back on my computer I'd like to claim, to demonstrate why TricMagic is scum. With only two flips I couldn't be sure he was a wolf yesterday but the two items I got over the past cycle confirm it.

I am The X-COM Project. My ability is the auto ability Autopsy, which gives me an item whenever someone dies. It also allows me to, once per night, give an item away as a free action.

When Vector died, I received Overdrive Serum, a one-shot night power that gives the target an additional vote during the next day phase. That's what I gave Jim. Going into this night I received Refraction Shield from Euchre's death, which gave me a one-shot copy of his ability to avoid being seen when targeting. This is a free action that could be used alongside any other action. In my night PM for this night I was informed I received Psi Armor, which is a one-shot copy of Jim's pick-and-choose ability.

Notice the pattern? I sure do. And that's what makes the item I received from Tric so interesting, and is why I was skeptical of Tric's "do you get counter-abilities" comment from yesterday (though I couldn't confirm the pattern until today, it still seemed off). The item I received from TricMagic is the Celestial Gauntlets, which is a one-shot free action that blocks any protections on the target from working. I acted like the item I got from him was super valuable to try and draw the mafiakill, but in truth it was completely fucking worthless.

So, Tric, why don't you explain to the class why you have an anti-protection ability?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2022, 10:13:03 pm
I'm the one that stole the Celestial Gauntlets from you 4mask. I actually targeted Jim, but presumably it was redirected to you. I can confirm the Celestial Gauntlets are an item that stop protections. It's also a free action.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2022, 10:19:01 pm
I also did something else but I'm going to keep quiet about that until people say stuff.

I'm sorry about the end of D2, when I got back it was minutes before deadline and I had to vote 4mask or Jack. I made an oath not to vote 4mask which I broke temporary and then Jack told me to fuck off when I switched to him. I probably could have handled that better.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2022, 10:23:35 pm
In.

Predicting a town loss after trying to mechanically solve the game with imperfect information and a night 2 Jim kill.

RIGHT ON SCHEDULE.

I GUESS I TECHNICALLY WIN WHETHER TOWN WINS OR LOSES EITHER BY BEING RIGHT WITH MY PREDICTION OR BECAUSE TOWN ACTUALLY WINS, SO GOOD LUCK!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2022, 10:26:15 pm
We will all miss the eye-strain of JIM GROOVESTER, trust me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2022, 10:31:40 pm
I somehow didn’t die last night.
I am very curious why you are still alive.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 31, 2022, 10:34:57 pm
I somehow didn’t die last night.
I am very curious why you are still alive.
As am I.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2022, 10:36:04 pm
This has nothing to do with the game, but I noticed it's your birthday when I went to check your posts.

Could this be the luck of the birthday cake? Also happy birthday!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 31, 2022, 10:37:06 pm
This has nothing to do with the game, but I noticed it's your birthday when I went to check your posts.

Could this be the luck of the birthday cake? Also happy birthday!
<3 Thank you!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2022, 11:00:42 pm
I need to go to bed.

No hasty hammers please. Not only is it at least mylo, but I'm heavily invested in this game at this point.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2022, 11:15:21 pm
Also just so we're clear: Max and Tric are town. We're not voting either.

I'll have more to say later after we get peeps posting and I get my daily dose of 4 hours of shuteye.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 08:04:08 am
Why Max is town:

1. His role. Max has been behaving like a cop this whole game. The existence of a town cop specifically makes sense due to the confirmed town two millers Jack and Jim. Personally I strongly believe a cop would exist in this setup.
2. Confirmed town Jack tracked Max on N1 and only saw them visit me. Max had no way to know he would be tracked. Max did nothing else but visit me. This is a completely pointless action as mafia.

Why Tric is town:

1. MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE OMG MY ROLE
2. Tric blew his one-shot Sacrifice on N1, he's not lying about that. This is an absolutely terrible plan as mafia because he's losing his auto-revive and also not killing a town player, that thing you need to do to win as mafia.
3. 4mask receiving a protection prevention item from Tric's death means nothing about Tric's alignment. You could just as easily say the pattern of items 4mask has been receiving from players dying are items that would be useful for himself.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 08:47:44 am
Toony, you pretty much completely lost any credibility with that end of day, so I protected 4mask last night. Pretty much the exact same thing Max did, so you are my top suspect. How did you even steal something when you say you bus people?

So yeah, was right not to trust you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 08:50:11 am
At this point, I can probobly put 4mask into the Town list. Roden's also town, obviously. Including me, that leaves NQT, Max, and Toony on the outs.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 08:53:37 am
Dude, I'm pretty sure 4maskwolf fucked up hard, because, according to that flip and information we have been told, he was the only one who could target Jim.

It's not out of the question that someone can kill notwithstanding redirects, but he's going to need to start making some serious excuses.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 08:55:19 am
Also, I can't really have done the kill without some trick, as I protected 4mask last night. 4mask could have done the kill, but a protective item doesn't really make sense unless the team is Toony/4mask. (Thanks for noting that, makes clearing 4mask much easier.)

NQT kinda needs to argue against being mafia. Max is also going to need a big argument and an action claim. However I'm certain he's just going to say they targeted me last night to confirm my town-ness. Was Toony that wanted that info out there.


Ninja max. Who'd you target and what's the verdict?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 08:58:08 am
I'm the one that stole the Celestial Gauntlets from you 4mask. I actually targeted Jim, but presumably it was redirected to you. I can confirm the Celestial Gauntlets are an item that stop protections. It's also a free action.
Wait,,, didn't read 4mask's role reveal. What the hell 4mask?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 09:02:25 am
...
The item I received from TricMagic is the Celestial Gauntlets, which is a one-shot free action that blocks any protections on the target from working. I acted like the item I got from him was super valuable to try and draw the mafiakill, but in truth it was completely fucking worthless.

So, Tric, why don't you explain to the class why you have an anti-protection ability?
What was the exact wording on that? Does it ignore Redirects, miller, doctor, and roleblocking? Cause that item is actually fairly powerful on a cop.
Also, let's not ignore the fact Toony stole it when I expected to get bussed last night. Or where my votes were at end of day.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 09:02:48 am
If I'm a godfather then half the players in this game give bad results to our cop which is pretty twisted.
By the way, upon rereading my role PM last night, I realized that this is entirely plausible and would not be twisted at all, because my role has a trick that I failed to understand while half-asleep. I'm not saying you are or aren't, yet, but it turns out that there could be any number of millers/godfathers and I could still determine their correct alignments if I do it right. Which I didn't during that first night because I mistook my action, but things will be different now.


Also, I can't really have done the kill without some trick, as I protected 4mask last night. 4mask could have done the kill, but a protective item doesn't really make sense unless the team is Toony/4mask. (Thanks for noting that, makes clearing 4mask much easier.)

NQT kinda needs to argue against being mafia. Max is also going to need a big argument and an action claim. However I'm certain he's just going to say they targeted me last night to confirm my town-ness. Was Toony that wanted that info out there.


Ninja max. Who'd you target and what's the verdict?
For christ sake don't throw the game. THIS:
At this point, I can probobly put 4mask into the Town list. Roden's also town, obviously. Including me, that leaves NQT, Max, and Toony on the outs.
is... retarded.

No I did not target you and I'm sure as hell not confirming you're town if you're going to be this unhelpful.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 09:04:58 am
Who did you target then? Also Toony's end of day threw me off hard. You just don't do that sort of thing unless you're mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 09:09:11 am
Who did you target then? Also Toony's end of day threw me off hard. You just don't do that sort of thing unless you're mafia.
It was an incredibly STUPID move if he's town and I admit it looks extremely scummy, yes.

Unfortunately I am not ready to tell you who I targeted yet because I did something different in order to use my role more efficiently. In other words, I don't have the results you want, yet.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 09:29:27 am
Tric...you protected fucking 4mask?? Why??
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 09:30:08 am
You made a vote, then immediately switched it at the last second. That's why. Seriously, Toony, what the hell!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 09:31:38 am
Tric, 4mask is mafia and is trying to mislynch you today.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 09:32:22 am
You made a vote, then immediately switched it at the last second. That's why. Seriously, Toony, what the hell!
I mean, that doesn't mean you don't still have two cop claims to choose from to protect, neither of whom were Toony! If Toony is scum, that's not MY fault!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 09:34:19 am
Tric, 4mask is mafia and is trying to mislynch you today.
Toony, 4mask was going to get lynched then you freaking switched to Jack. Also that tone is the exact wrong one to use with me, you are just buddying up. As well, stealing items very much wasn't in your claim. Why did you want my full role yesterday?


... Who was the other cop who claimed? I don't remember one happening.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 09:36:31 am
... Who was the other cop who claimed? I don't remember one happening.
NQT. He was subtle about it, and then very unsubtle about it when I didn't get it the first time.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 09:38:20 am
... Who was the other cop who claimed? I don't remember one happening.
NQT. He was subtle about it, and then very unsubtle about it when I didn't get it the first time.
...
hua, really NQT, full claim was yesterday. Which Toony seems to have ignored given he apparently stole something.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 09:40:13 am
Tric, the item I stole from 4mask is a oneshot free action that let's you bypass protection. It would only be for killing through doctor protects, in other words, YOUR doctor protects. You would be alive after dying the first time so it makes sense.

I asked for your exact role names because I have another ability to refill a player's oneshots. I was going to give you Sacrifice back, but I didn't realize you would just die and not res without your auto so I decided it wasn't worth it. I'm sorry about the last minute vote switch, I swore to Jim I wouldn't vote 4mask but I still felt horrible voting Jack.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 09:44:09 am
Specifically the Celestial Gauntlets let you target a player as a free action and says this: "Protections do nothing against the target."
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 09:47:55 am
I asked for your exact role names because I have another ability to refill a player's oneshots. I was going to give you Sacrifice back, but I didn't realize you would just die and not res without your auto so I decided it wasn't worth it. I'm sorry about the last minute vote switch, I swore to Jim I wouldn't vote 4mask but I still felt horrible voting Jack.
GOOD, I'VE BEEN WONDERING WHO HAD THAT.

I have a one-shot that lets me guarantee that my results are actually correct, regardless of any other abilities. I have not used it yet. Under the right circumstances, I can arrange to perform any number of tests at once, and thus that one-shot could apply to all of them, but I have to preload them.

If you're town, you have no reason not to agree to have me use just such an inspect on you tonight, guaranteeing that you are definitely town irrespective of anything else, and then refill it. In the unlikely event that you are killed, it seems that I should still have the shot, since my inspect would fail. Since this would either confirm you town or out you as mafia, and as long as I'm protected, the results would definitely come out, that should be perfectly fine, right?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 09:55:50 am
Max I can do that, yeah.

We have some other really big issues today though.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 09:58:25 am
Namely, I have no idea if it's really mylo or lylo because Tric protected 4mask and perhaps due to that we have no distinguishable kill from Roden.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 01, 2022, 10:04:17 am
Lmao Max, I went into the day saying I'd performed the kill on Jim but not by my own choice, someone has the power to force others to take actions.

Why does wolf 4mask ever shoot Jim there, I have more than enough experience to know that's a bad idea and automatically outing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 10:06:18 am
Looks at NQT. What did you do last night NQT?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 10:07:11 am
Lmao Max, I went into the day saying I'd performed the kill on Jim but not by my own choice, someone has the power to force others to take actions.
You were serious about that? With all the shit you say it's hard to tell, okay.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 01, 2022, 10:07:36 am
Lmao Max, I went into the day saying I'd performed the kill on Jim but not by my own choice, someone has the power to force others to take actions.
You were serious about that? With all the shit you say it's hard to tell, okay.
I don't just randomly say shit like that on D3 lmao.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 10:09:51 am
Lmao Max, I went into the day saying I'd performed the kill on Jim but not by my own choice, someone has the power to force others to take actions.
You were serious about that? With all the shit you say it's hard to tell, okay.
I don't just randomly say shit like that on D3 lmao.
How could I possibly know that?! I didn't think there was a timer involved, I just thought "clearly 4maskwolf has a pattern of saying weird nonsense".
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 01, 2022, 10:10:39 am
Lmao Max, I went into the day saying I'd performed the kill on Jim but not by my own choice, someone has the power to force others to take actions.
You were serious about that? With all the shit you say it's hard to tell, okay.
I don't just randomly say shit like that on D3 lmao.
How could I possibly know that?! I didn't think there was a timer involved, I just thought "clearly 4maskwolf has a pattern of saying weird nonsense".
Wow.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 10:57:01 am
Claim Time

I'm pretty much just a tracker but even then my role has some additionally weirdness.
Max, this is exactly what I'm saying. This "the other cop would counter claim" business is nonsense. Anyway what with Roden, Euchre and Tric's shenanigans, I've moved back into thinking you're more likely town.
It's not nonsense, literally no other person has claimed to be any kind of cop, which should suggest to you that nobody else is any kind of cop.
Max,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm mostly a tracker but I'm also a pseudo-cop. When I track someone, I learn their target(s), but I can also learn if they or any of their targets or anyone that targeted them is scum but not which one or how many or who might have targeted them. It's flavoured like there are good or bad "psychic vibes" about the target.

Given the hidden element and the profusion of millers and untrackable players, it's likely the role was designed to trick knightwing into making over-confident pronouncements. This more complex power was why I was sceptical about Euchre's tracking claim.

N1 I tracked Roden but it failed because he's untrackable.
N2 I tracked 4mask. 4mask targeted Jim. There was scum between them and any targetter of 4mask.

I knew there was no point tracking Roden again (untrackable), Jim (he'd apparently redirect me to 4mask), Toony (more or less clear), Max was most likely town at this stage, so that left Tric (suspicious, but everyone else seems to think obvtown) and 4mask, who was #2 lynch pick. So the obvious choice was to go with 4mask.

Anyway the cop part didn't do anything useful, as we already know Jim was a miller. But it does confirm that 4mask targeted Jim.



Roden, what happened with that vig power??? Very curious that you don't even mention it in your first posts.

4mask, happy birthday! What was your intended action if you were hypnotised into killing Jim?

Max, do you think scum!4mask would be stupid enough to kill Jim when everyone knows he's the only person who can target Jim, and also Jim was one of the few players actively calling 4mask town?



Also, I can't really have done the kill without some trick, as I protected 4mask last night.

It's obvious to me that the team must be TricMagic/Roden:

Tric 'protects' 4mask, after Roden had claimed to want to vig 4mask. So they set up their alibis early. Tric hypnotises ("power of friendship") 4mask into performing the kill. Jim was picked as the target because everyone knows only 4mask can kill Jim. And also Jim had expressed doubt about Tric's clam (the implausibility of "sacrifice").

Either that, or a scum!4mask just straight up shot Jim (why??) while his scum partner Tric doctored him, anticipating a shot from the vig. In either of these scenarios, Tric is scum. POE: Tric, Roden, 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 11:04:21 am
Oh so it's 4mask and NQT, that was easy.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 11:04:53 am
Oh so it's 4mask and NQT, that was easy.
Going to share your thoughts with the rest of the class?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 11:07:24 am
It's safe for us to no lynch most likely. I think that's probably the correct choice to be cautious.

I'll need to ask Webadict a question after Roden claims what they did last night.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 11:18:04 am
Max, do you think scum!4mask would be stupid enough to kill Jim when everyone knows he's the only person who can target Jim, and also Jim was one of the few players actively calling 4mask town?
Yes. I have literally used "come on, I wouldn't be dumb enough to try that!" as an alibi before.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 11:24:41 am
Max, do you think scum!4mask would be stupid enough to kill Jim when everyone knows he's the only person who can target Jim, and also Jim was one of the few players actively calling 4mask town?
Yes. I have literally used "come on, I wouldn't be dumb enough to try that!" as an alibi before.
OK, refuge in stupidity is absolutely a strategy, I'm just not sure it's the most likely.

What do you think of:
1. Toony's crypticness?
2. Roden's reticence to speak about the think he'd bigged up doing all of D2?
3. TricMagic protecting 4mask of all people?

(Also, I have to laugh, Roden was so insistent that the claimed 'vig' and 'cop' had to be kept alive, and then neither of them did any killing or copping.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 11:27:42 am
What do you think of:
1. Toony's crypticness?
I don't see anything I would call cryptic; what do you mean?
Quote
2. Roden's reticence to speak about the think he'd bigged up doing all of D2?
I think we're all very eager to hear about it, yes.
Quote
3. TricMagic protecting 4mask of all people?
Distressingly NAI.

Quote
(Also, I have to laugh, Roden was so insistent that the claimed 'vig' and 'cop' had to be kept alive, and then neither of them did any killing or copping.)
I did copping.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 11:32:54 am
I don't see anything I would call cryptic; what do you mean?
His vague pronouncements about knowing who scum is (without giving any reason), his reluctance to claim despite thinking the game is lock, his contradictory position that a nolynch would be good to day etc.

Unfortunately I am not ready to tell you who I targeted yet because I did something different in order to use my role more efficiently. In other words, I don't have the results you want, yet.
I did copping.
You just can't claim it, huh. I hope you survive until D4 so we can see that 4D chess move play out.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 11:47:05 am
Is Max scum too NQT?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 11:49:41 am
Is Max scum too NQT?
I don't know who scum are. Tric and Roden are the best guess with the evidence but I'm not going to go soft on everyone else because of that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 11:52:30 am
Toony, why did town!Tric protect 4mask? Why did scum!4mask shoot Jim of all people?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 11:59:11 am
His vague pronouncements about knowing who scum is (without giving any reason), his reluctance to claim despite thinking the game is lock, his contradictory position that a nolynch would be good to day etc.
Oh, okay. Not really what I would call cryptic. He's not talking in riddles, just making bald assertions. Well, pushing nolynch in order to stall during MYLO is a known scum ToonyMan move, but it's also... an actual thing you might want to do during MYLO, so it's hard for me to make a firm statement on that. And, to be clear, switching to lynch EuchreJack, definitely one of the least lynchworthy players, was absolutely an anti-town move. I'm not saying I wouldn't lynch ToonyMan, but since I can know his alignment with guaranteed certainty tonight, I'm not really that into it either. On the other hand, he deserves it, no question. But we don't all get what we deserve.

I don't know who scum are. Tric and Roden are the best guess with the evidence but I'm not going to go soft on everyone else because of that.
I don't really believe that this setup is completely without any town doctoring. If nothing else, it would be a pretty shitty thing to do to me given that my role works best if I don't do anything useful until the last minute. If someone else wants to claim to have a protective ability, I'll reconsider this.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 12:00:14 pm
Toony, why did town!Tric protect 4mask?
I'm not going to supply the answers here since you didn't ask me, but I definitely have some.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 12:21:08 pm
How would you explain my Sacrifice play NQT?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 12:54:28 pm
How would you explain my Sacrifice play NQT?
Plenty of possible explanations:

1. Preventing extra kills when there might be a vig in the game is something scum might want to do, especially if they think themselves likely targets
2. Scum shot 4mask, it was bussed onto Tric and you have a one-shot revive (this is especially possible if your on a one-man scum team)
3. The move did something else or was intended to do something else along with killing and reviving you

Why did you protect 4mask?

(Max, you can answer this too if you like)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 01:02:57 pm
Toony, why did town!Tric protect 4mask? Why did scum!4mask shoot Jim of all people?
Jim is the one player that Tric wouldn't be able to protect.

Mafia had to kill Jim last night to avoid a protect happening. They didn't use the Celestial Gauntlets because there was no need to if they killed Jim, I guess as a form of insurance for later.

Now, why would that be? It's like...they respect Tric as a doctor!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 01:09:07 pm
Why did you protect 4mask?

(Max, you can answer this too if you like)
Sure. A town TricMagic would see me claiming to have investigated ToonyMan, as well as ToonyMan's insistence that I'm town, as evidence that we're connected. He then sees ToonyMan make a last-minute vote change to what turned out to be a town lynch; a town TricMagic tends to assume way too much significance of any action that doesn't give him, personally, time to respond. He thinks "that's just what Max did on day 1, and I know they're connected, so they're probably a scum team!" He looks back over the thread and sees ToonyMan attacking 4maskwolf, and thinks "ToonyMan has it in for 4maskwolf, so I had better protect him instead of risking protecting an evil mafioso by following the original plan."

The most strictly rational interpretation would have been that 4maskwolf and ToonyMan are the mafia team, of course, since ToonyMan shifted the vote away from 4maskwolf, and 4mask had done the same thing for ToonyMan day 1 — but because ToonyMan voted 4mask and said I was town, the assumed connection runs the other way. In my experience, TricMagic, at least as town, doesn't tend to think in terms of buddying and distancing unless it's specifically someone buddying him, in which case he gets suspicious.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 01:29:45 pm
Toony
Jim is the one player that Tric wouldn't be able to protect.
This is almost a good point... except it's wrong. A town doctor Tric cannot protect himself. Why not shoot the doctor? Sorry to have to point out such an obvious mistake in your reasoning here, Toon.

Max
a town TricMagic tends to assume way too much significance of any action that doesn't give him, personally, time to respond.
This is definitely a deep read of Tric's regular perspective. But I am a bit burned out on "Tric would never act like this" from that game last year where everyone consistently misjudged him over this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 01:48:53 pm
I'm a bus driver NQT. It's too risky for mafia to try to kill Tric. I can't protect Jim the same way Tric can't protect Jim either.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 01:57:22 pm
I'm a bus driver NQT. It's too risky for mafia to try to kill Tric. I can't protect Jim the same way Tric can't protect Jim either.
You also stole an item, so clearly you aren't just that, if you ever were.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 02:02:31 pm
I'm a bus driver NQT. It's too risky for mafia to try to kill Tric. I can't protect Jim the same way Tric can't protect Jim either.
Is it though? Is there a world where you and Tric are both town and you decide to bus the doctor, in a game where there is a claimed vig? I don't buy it.

If that is this world, why didn't you bus Tric?

Also let's imagine that a mafia!4mask did decide to shoot Jim for an ensured kill. That immediately puts a target on him as the only possible person to have performed the kill. So he's making a direct exchange 1 for 1. In what world does that win the game for scum?

This is really high grade bullshit, Toony. Do we even have any proof that you are a bus driver? From what we've seen, you're an item thief.

Max would your inspect on Toony show if he was third party?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 02:25:40 pm
I'm a bus driver NQT. It's too risky for mafia to try to kill Tric. I can't protect Jim the same way Tric can't protect Jim either.
You also stole an item, so clearly you aren't just that, if you ever were.
I am many things.

If that is this world, why didn't you bus Tric?
How would you know? I bus drived Tric and 4mask on N1 and Max recommended I bus Tric with someone on N2. I haven't claimed my second action for N2. I want to claim it after everyone else has.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 03:19:43 pm
... Quick reminder, who confirmed that bit of info that you targeted someone?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 03:30:40 pm

N1 I tracked Roden but it failed because he's untrackable.
N2 I tracked 4mask. 4mask targeted Jim. There was scum between them and any targetter of 4mask.

I knew there was no point tracking Roden again (untrackable),
Are you fucking serious right now

Why are you making this game so difficult??

I explained multiple times yesterday that I didn't Commute. I told Jack he could safely Track me. You didn't target me because you're either just not paying attention or you're scum!

NQT, you're not a pure Tracker. Full claim please.

Also can you guys please stop lynching my town reads?
I also want Tric to claim who he targeted last night.
The reason I made these requests is because I targeted you, NQT. Everyone acting shocked that 4mask isn't dead...why? Why are you confused? I made it clear I wanted to lynch NQT yesterday and only wanted to Vig 4mask because no one else was a viable target. But since you guys wanted to mis-lynch an obvtown after I told you all not to AGAIN, I feel like it should be obvious that I was going to shoot NQT.

Now, a couple problems. One, Tric, wtf? Why would you protect 4mask after I claimed I would Vig him? You realize how anti-town that is, right?

Two, and this is a much bigger problem: my action was successful. My results told me that I, as a fact, did manage to flatten NQT into a pancake. However, he's still here. Why? If Tric targeted 4mask, why was my action still successful, yet NQT still lives?

It'd be nice if I could, you know, prove it, but y'all flash wagon'd the one player who could actually prove it for literally no reason. NQT technically could do it as well but he didn't want to listen I guess.

(Also why the hell did you also target 4mask if you expected me to Vig him??)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 03:40:21 pm
I targeted 4mask with my protection because of Toony's actions end of yesterday.
... That said, that means someone redirected the action to NQT, so my doctoring likely ended up hitting NQT as a result of that? Why though. Well, the obvious bit is someone was expecting 4mask to get hit with a bullet.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 03:52:57 pm
If Toony bussed 4mask and NQT, 4mask would've died. The Doc would've gone to NQT and the Vig would've gone to 4mask.

The problem Tric is that you saw me establish an entire plan and multiple times saw me say I would Vig 4mask. At the end of the day, you're claiming to protect a Vig target, even though the Doc results seem to have been on NQT. So that's a double whammy on you tbh. The problem is that I don't understand why you would target either of them as either alignment. We have a claimed Cop and there was zero protection there, nor on the player who got inno'd (Toony).

This gets further complicated with Toony's bussing, how exactly it works, and any further details about NQT's role that he may not have offered. For all I know, he could be Bulletproof. I doubt it, since my results flavor did say that NQT at the very least was hurt, but with my Vig being considered "successful" despite his apparent death then something screwy has to be happening here.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 04:08:12 pm
Thank you for claiming Roden, with that I can claim my second action.

Don't worry, I didn't bus drive anyone last night.

For my second action, I copied Roden's vig shot and targeted 4mask.

This confirms Tric protected 4mask from me killing them as 4mask should also be dead, let alone NQT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 04:11:05 pm
In other words, Tric is town unless you want to argue he protected 4mask while also using magic hypnosis.

And what's going on with NQT? How did he survive too unless he's hiding something?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 04:12:37 pm
That doesn't quite work toony. It's fancy, but you could have just as easily hypnotized roden. Give me a bit.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 04:19:42 pm
Jesus christ the town shoot both of the mafia on the same night and Tric thinks I'm the shitter. You know I'm pretty pissed you protected 4mask last night, you can see why yeah?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 04:24:16 pm
It's so clearly not Tric and Roden. Tric is acting like an idiot instead of just going with the flow and trying to get 4mask or NQT lynched which I would happily agree with and lose to.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 04:29:57 pm
ALRIGHT.

I REDIRECTED EVERYBODY EXCEPT 4MASKWOLF TO 4MASKWOLF. I ALSO WATCHED TOONYMAN VISIT 4MASKWOLF. I AM NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN HOW I AM ABLE TO DO BOTH OF THESE THINGS.

I DID NOT LOSE ANY AUTOS AND I HAVE NO INDICATION THAT ANYTHING THAT I DID FAILED. I'M SOMEWHAT CONFUSED BY THE RESULTS IN THIS CASE. A COUPLE POINTS OF CONFUSION AND OBSERVATION:

I) IF TOONYMAN IS TELLING THE TRUTH, I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THAT EVERYTHING, INCLUDING MY OWN ACTION TO WATCH 4MASKWOLF, WOULD HAVE TARGETED TRICMAGIC, SO I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD HAVE SEEN MORE THAN JUST TOONYMAN.
II) IF MY ACTIONS ARE SUCCESSFUL I DON'T SEE HOW NOTQUITETHERE TRACKS RODEN AND GETS A RESULT THAT HE'S UNTRACKABLE, UNLESS NOTQUITETHERE IS IMMUNE TO REDIRECTS, TRICMAGIC IS UNTRACKABLE, SOME OTHER WEIRD SHIT IS GOING ON, OR NOTQUITETHERE IS NOT BEING HONEST WITH HIS CLAIM.
III) THE EFFECTS TRICMAGIC CLAIMED, I.E., DYING AND REVIVING AND LOSING HIS AUTO, ARE ALSO CONSISTENT WITH BEING THE TARGET OF THE NIGHT KILL AND TOONYMAN YOINKING HIS AUTOS.

I THINK TOONYMAN'S CLAIM IS BELIEVABLE. I FIND NOTQUITETHERE'S CLAIM SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE GIVEN EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN CLAIMED. IF NOTQUITETHERE'S CLAIM IS FALSE THEN THIS ALSO PUTS SUSPICION ONTO RODEN SINCE NOTQUITETHERE CLAIMED RODEN'S UNTRACKABILITY BEFORE RODEN CLAIMED IT.

gets music out. OBJECTION! (https://youtu.be/fR4P8o95WPA)
Right now we know Toony targeted 4maskwolf N1. However, we do not know if Toony targeted me as well. This throws the claim of bussing completely out of the water. And do to Toony showcasing a new skill, and the likelyhood no one got wiped last night.

Fact: Toony claimed to target 4mask to bus him with me, and wipe Jim's autos.
Fact: Jim did not lose their Auto, and redirected to 4mask.
Fact: 4mask did not lose their Auto.
Conjecture: Their wipe ability doesn't actually exist as they say it does. Rather it does something else entirely.
Fact: Toony stole an item last night. This means they targeted 4mask.
Conjecture: Toony has a number of abilities, from Hypnosis to Deflection.
Fact: Toony's bus claim cannot be verified.

Rebuttal/counter: My auto got wiped? However this is inconclusive and not against the hypothesis that Toony has multiple actions he can perform.

Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2022, 04:36:49 pm
... A question Toony, was that Night 1 kill supposed to be me?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 05:06:32 pm
There's a funny possibility here if Toony is telling the truth. Roden is a 0% one-shot cowardly vigilante.  (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12368) He has a vigilante power, it just always fails, and his ability to hide is the real power. This kind of thing might make sense in a game with only 9 players and a lot of fakeout abilities.

Alternatively, Tric has some kind of area-of-effect protection (like if they protect one person, a random player is also protected)— again, it would make sense in a potentially high kill game where there are multiple killers and apparently kills can be duplicated(?!).

Or Toony is just lying. Note how he waited until everyone had claimed before revealing all the details.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 05:09:40 pm
Are you fucking serious right now

Why are you making this game so difficult??

I explained multiple times yesterday that I didn't Commute. I told Jack he could safely Track me. You didn't target me because you're either just not paying attention or you're scum!
Or... and this might come as a surprise... I thought you were probably scum and so couldn't be trusted not to be lying about the temporariness of your untrackability. I couldn't risk my track failing because of shenanigans I knew you had already been capable of.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 05:15:46 pm
Are you fucking serious right now

Why are you making this game so difficult??

I explained multiple times yesterday that I didn't Commute. I told Jack he could safely Track me. You didn't target me because you're either just not paying attention or you're scum!
Or... and this might come as a surprise... I thought you were probably scum and so couldn't be trusted not to be lying about the temporariness of your untrackability. I couldn't risk my track failing because of shenanigans I knew you had already been capable of.
You...realize that means if I was still untrackable, that it was undeniable proof that I'm lying scum...right?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 05:24:25 pm
Not really, you could just make some claim about how you misread your ability text and the players would believe it. After all Jim retconned his explanation of his own power on rereading it (quite truthfully). But, now you've truly, fully, nailed your flag to the mast on this one, I can always track you tonight.

That said, another reason for tracking someone else is that as you claimed miller, the pseudocop part of my power is useless against you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 05:26:11 pm
Everyone

I think I'm the only player that has tried to actually account fully for what happened and build some team possibilities. Who do you all think are scum and how?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 05:37:51 pm
There's a funny possibility here if Toony is telling the truth. Roden is a 0% one-shot cowardly vigilante.  (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12368) He has a vigilante power, it just always fails, and his ability to hide is the real power. This kind of thing might make sense in a game with only 9 players and a lot of fakeout abilities.

Alternatively, Tric has some kind of area-of-effect protection (like if they protect one person, a random player is also protected)— again, it would make sense in a potentially high kill game where there are multiple killers and apparently kills can be duplicated(?!).

Or Toony is just lying. Note how he waited until everyone had claimed before revealing all the details.
Hider isn't naturally Ascetic though? What is a mafia Hider supposed to do with no town Vig?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 05:40:30 pm
Hider isn't naturally Ascetic though? What is a mafia Hider supposed to do with no town Vig?
Obviously these would be whatever custom roles Web had made, I was just saying it's possible that if you are a town vig, you could unwittingly be a fake vig. That's in a world where the team is something like Tric/4mask.

Anyway, who are the mafia and how? If you don't like my theories, what are yours?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 05:45:14 pm
Not really, you could just make some claim about how you misread your ability text and the players would believe it. After all Jim retconned his explanation of his own power on rereading it (quite truthfully). But, now you've truly, fully, nailed your flag to the mast on this one, I can always track you tonight.

That said, another reason for tracking someone else is that as you claimed miller, the pseudocop part of my power is useless against you.
(https://preview.redd.it/4f3venztvp7z.jpg?auto=webp&s=cff2e0208d61ff7208ef0b513423013974ee0596)

You are testing the limits of my medication
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 2: Tricky Magic [8 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 05:50:40 pm
This exchange is very pertinent:
Does a one-shot get spent if the player is role-blocked?

Does a one-shot get spent if the action fails on the target? For example, if a player used a one-shot vig on a bulletproof player.

Does a one-shot get spent if the action succeeds, but because of outside forces the end result doesn't occur? For example, if a player used a one-shot vig on someone, but another player made getting killed impossible for that night.
1. No. Roleblocking would not allow the Player to perform the Action.
2. In the case of an Action failure, no. However, the specific case you mentioned may not necessarily be an Action failure. Bulletproofs that cause Kill Actions to fail, specifically, would indeed result in the one-shot Kill being refunded.
3. Yes. The Action succeeded, even if the target wasn't killed.

Was your vig power used up Roden? If it wasn't then you can use tonight to do whatever clearing you thought you were planning on D2; if it was used up then this proves beyond all doubt that I don't have any unclaimed bulletproof or roleblocking or whatever.

You are testing the limits of my medication
You know, your apparent inability to mentally conceive that other people think you might be scum is a tick in favour of you being town after all. But you still haven't come up with teams or explanations, so my judgement is still suspended.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 05:52:35 pm
NQT the only reason I haven't voted you right now is that Toony has claimed like five different OP abilities and still isn't dead. Nobody was protecting him nor his god tier set of abilities, yet mafia was more scared of a Miller claim.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 05:58:32 pm
NQT the only reason I haven't voted you right now is that Toony has claimed like five different OP abilities and still isn't dead. Nobody was protecting him nor his god tier set of abilities, yet mafia was more scared of a Miller claim.
It is a puzzler, I will admit. OK so this is starting to move towards solving. Work through that thought. If Toony is scum, then who's on his team? How did the kill go down?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 06:03:40 pm
This exchange is very pertinent:
Does a one-shot get spent if the player is role-blocked?

Does a one-shot get spent if the action fails on the target? For example, if a player used a one-shot vig on a bulletproof player.

Does a one-shot get spent if the action succeeds, but because of outside forces the end result doesn't occur? For example, if a player used a one-shot vig on someone, but another player made getting killed impossible for that night.
1. No. Roleblocking would not allow the Player to perform the Action.
2. In the case of an Action failure, no. However, the specific case you mentioned may not necessarily be an Action failure. Bulletproofs that cause Kill Actions to fail, specifically, would indeed result in the one-shot Kill being refunded.
3. Yes. The Action succeeded, even if the target wasn't killed.

Was your vig power used up Roden? If it wasn't then you can use tonight to do whatever clearing you thought you were planning on D2; if it was used up then this proves beyond all doubt that I don't have any unclaimed bulletproof or roleblocking or whatever.

You are testing the limits of my medication
You know, your apparent inability to mentally conceive that other people think you might be scum is a tick in favour of you being town after all. But you still haven't come up with teams or explanations, so my judgement is still suspended.
My action was successful, I wasn't given a refund. And I was never told that my Doc 1-shot was stolen at any point, so I still have it and I know it wasn't used to protect you. Tric is claiming to protect 4mask, which itself is a horrible decision and idk why Tric would fake targeting 4mask if he really targeted you. So I do believe his claim.

I did forget this exchange though so now I'm even more confused. I don't understand how last night makes any sense unless Tric is lying, but his current claim is scummy as fuck so I don't know why he would fake it?

I can understand why people think I'm scum, that doesn't bug me. What annoys me is that you scum read me but didn't choose to target me, even though if you were right you'd essentially have a guilty result on me. Like I cannot worm my way out of that by saying "oh I misread my role uwu" or whatever you think my excuse would be. Nobody would believe me, not only do I not have a history of misunderstanding my role, I made it very clear that my Commute is an action. There's literally no way for me to fuck that up.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 06:16:58 pm
Max
a town TricMagic tends to assume way too much significance of any action that doesn't give him, personally, time to respond.
This is definitely a deep read of Tric's regular perspective. But I am a bit burned out on "Tric would never act like this" from that game last year where everyone consistently misjudged him over this sort of thing.
I didn't say that; I said "distressingly NAI". It could just as easily be fake, but you can't deny it could be genuine.

Max would your inspect on Toony show if he was third party?
Absolutely, yes. It's a standard "I get told the alignment" and I heard town.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 06:20:24 pm
OK, I'm going to be real with you, Roden, I was probably being over-paranoid in not tracking you. It turned out to be a suboptimal play, you're absolutely right.

Talking of suboptimal play... what's the chances Tric is playing some 4D chess game with his claim. Because you're right, none of it makes any sense. What would a Tric/Toony team look like?

Let's say Toony bussed me and 4mask and Tric is faking a protect claim to cover up the lack of a kill. You shot me but it's redirected to 4mask. He doesn't die because, IDK, Tric's "friendship is magic" hypnotism has a downside that it protects the person being hypnotised (they remain a true friend or whatever).

Is that possible? Yes. Is it likely? I have no clue. It's like Sherlock says, once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.



Max is that an infallible inspect or is Godfather still on the table here? Also "Everyone" includes you. What teams do you think fit with what we're seeing here?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 06:29:02 pm
Max is that an infallible inspect or is Godfather still on the table here? Also "Everyone" includes you. What teams do you think fit with what we're seeing here?
My d1 inspection of Toony was normal. Infallibility is only a one-shot, so I didn't use it.

Why do you fixate on the ability name "Friendship is Magic"? If Tric is scum we don't have any reason to believe it's even real; it's not like literally any human being who has been aware of the internet for the past few years couldn't come up with it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2022, 06:34:06 pm
Why do you fixate on the ability name "Friendship is Magic"? If Tric is scum we don't have any reason to believe it's even real; it's not like literally any human being who has been aware of the internet for the past few years couldn't come up with it.
I'm just spitballing with what fits. I assumed he might well be telling the truth as ability-name and role-name cops are absolutely a thing as you well know. If he's lying about the ability names, it doesn't change the rest of the facts.

What about the more pressing question? You not even going to attempt to put together this puzzle?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 06:41:45 pm
What about the more pressing question? You not even going to attempt to put together this puzzle?
I'm not really the kind of guy who just blurts out my reads like that. Just be patient please.

@webadict: Under what circumstances might a kill action succeed, but the target still be walking around alive? It seems to me that would only make sense in the case of an explicit revive, not protection; and in the case of an explicit revive we'd have seen the target die and come back like with TricMagic. Is that so? Is it possible that a player might have a revive ability which works silently?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 06:48:44 pm
NQT the only reason I haven't voted you right now is that Toony has claimed like five different OP abilities and still isn't dead. Nobody was protecting him nor his god tier set of abilities, yet mafia was more scared of a Miller claim.
It is a puzzler, I will admit. OK so this is starting to move towards solving. Work through that thought. If Toony is scum, then who's on his team? How did the kill go down?
I honestly have no clue. Nobody has verifiable information. There's a contradiction with your not-death but I don't know how it's possible.

My only suggestion is letting Max use his super Cop ability tonight and going from there. Tric and I can both Doc Max to ensure he survives. Even if the alleged possession ability exists like 4mask says, at least one of our protects will still go through.

Additionally, Toony should give up the Celestial Gauntlets, preferably to me, to avoid any interference with our protection efforts.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2022, 06:54:03 pm
Additionally, Toony should give up the Celestial Gauntlets, preferably to me, to avoid any interference with our protection efforts.
Hahaha, no. It's self-evident that he should give them up to me, since under this theory I'm the only one being protected - even if I am mafia, I can't usefully use it!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 07:14:36 pm
Additionally, Toony should give up the Celestial Gauntlets, preferably to me, to avoid any interference with our protection efforts.
Hahaha, no. It's self-evident that he should give them up to me, since under this theory I'm the only one being protected - even if I am mafia, I can't usefully use it!
...Good point actually. You won't use them to get yourself killed.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 07:15:55 pm
NQT the only reason I haven't voted you right now is that Toony has claimed like five different OP abilities and still isn't dead. Nobody was protecting him nor his god tier set of abilities, yet mafia was more scared of a Miller claim.
I have six one-shots. They're broken into two sets of three.

Set one:
1. Remove all autos from my target
2. Steal a non-mafiakill ability from my target, if I name a specific ability they own I take that one
3. Restore a random one-shot the target owns, if I name a specific one-shot it'll be that one

Set two:
1. Copy target1's action and use it on target2. I cannot choose the same target for both.
2. Make the target unaffected by roleblocks
3. Bus drive target1 and target2

I can name my role and abilities if you want.

I'm allowed to use one from each set each night. I'll be completely out of abilities after N3 if I use my last two one-shots, however D4 should be the final day at most so that's irrelevant.

N1 actions:
I used the auto-wipe, targeting Jim
I used the bus drive, targeting 4mask and Tric

N2 actions:
I used the ability steal (didn't specify anything), targeting Jim
I used the copy ability, targeting Roden and 4mask

I have the one-shot restore and the make the target unaffected by roleblocks abilities left, plus the Celestial Gauntlets I took.

I feel confident that mafia will not be able to win if we no-lynch today, however I want to discuss this game over the course of the weekend and not end it early.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 07:17:13 pm
Well actually this game will go to D5 if we no-lynch and then lynch both mafia back to back, but you get the point.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 07:21:34 pm
Everyone

I think I'm the only player that has tried to actually account fully for what happened and build some team possibilities. Who do you all think are scum and how?

These are the only teams that I can believe exist at this point in time:

4mask/NQT
4mask/Jim
Jack/Max

Tric and Roden are always town.

This is why I can't resist voting 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 01, 2022, 09:00:16 pm
NQT the only reason I haven't voted you right now is that Toony has claimed like five different OP abilities and still isn't dead. Nobody was protecting him nor his god tier set of abilities, yet mafia was more scared of a Miller claim.
I have six one-shots. They're broken into two sets of three.

Set one:
1. Remove all autos from my target
2. Steal a non-mafiakill ability from my target, if I name a specific ability they own I take that one
3. Restore a random one-shot the target owns, if I name a specific one-shot it'll be that one

Set two:
1. Copy target1's action and use it on target2. I cannot choose the same target for both.
2. Make the target unaffected by roleblocks
3. Bus drive target1 and target2

I can name my role and abilities if you want.

I'm allowed to use one from each set each night. I'll be completely out of abilities after N3 if I use my last two one-shots, however D4 should be the final day at most so that's irrelevant.

N1 actions:
I used the auto-wipe, targeting Jim
I used the bus drive, targeting 4mask and Tric

N2 actions:
I used the ability steal (didn't specify anything), targeting Jim
I used the copy ability, targeting Roden and 4mask

I have the one-shot restore and the make the target unaffected by roleblocks abilities left, plus the Celestial Gauntlets I took.

I feel confident that mafia will not be able to win if we no-lynch today, however I want to discuss this game over the course of the weekend and not end it early.
If this is all true, that explains why you were surprised that 4mask was alive. You basically tried to double up my Vig shot on 4mask. So Tric did protect 4mask...but, why is NQT alive? I don't get it, my action succeeded. Did your action succeed too, Toony?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 01, 2022, 10:59:48 pm
@webadict: Under what circumstances might a kill action succeed, but the target still be walking around alive? It seems to me that would only make sense in the case of an explicit revive, not protection; and in the case of an explicit revive we'd have seen the target die and come back like with TricMagic. Is that so? Is it possible that a player might have a revive ability which works silently?
All Actions succeed regardless of the Night outcome UNLESS they are unable to complete due to roleblocking or insufficient targeting (This could be a dead or ineligible target, or some other insufficient Action requirement.) Any Action may succeed but not necessarily complete as intended, such as your example of a kill being protected against. Both the protect and kill succeed, as they were not roleblocked or unable to target, but the kill resolution was halted by protection.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2022, 11:43:09 pm
Did your action succeed too, Toony?
My actions were successful on both nights, yes.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2022, 12:25:34 am
The Facts

EoD1 Vote Count:
Vector - 3 - Jim Groovester, 4maskwolf, Maximum Spin
Jim Groovester - 2 - Vector
ToonyMan - 2 - TricMagic, EuchreJack
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan
Knightwing64 - 1 - Roden
Roden - 1 - Knightwing64

Note: Roden and Tric tried to switch to Max but missed the deadline.
Note2: Knightwing64 was replaced by notquitethere.


EoD2 Vote Count:
EuchreJack - 4 - 4maskwolf, notquitethere, Jim Groovester, ToonyMan
4maskwolf - 2 - Maximum Spin, TricMagic
notquitethere - 1 - Roden
ToonyMan - 1 - EuchreJack


Confirmed Actions:

Night 1
Jack - saw Max visit Toony
Jim - redirected all actions from themselves to 4mask
Jim - watched 4mask, saw Toony visit (actually saw me visit Tric because I bus swapped 4mask and Tric, but you'd have to believe me there)
Jim - received an item from 4mask
Tric died and resurrected

Night 2
nothing
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2022, 12:30:29 am
Night 2
nothing
Actually one thing is confirmed for Night 2:

Jim - redirected all actions from themselves to 4mask, again
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 04:56:43 am
That's all very nice information, Toony but not much in the way of analysis. So you're basically saying you cant account for Tric's protect, how my survival conflicts with your claim etc. and so you just want to give up on launching scum today, hoping they don't have any more night tricks. You must be able to see why I don't find that satisfying.

---

Of course another possibility here is that Toony and/or Tric and/or Roden botched their fake claims (or said deliberately contradictory things) which is why this doesn't stack up.

(I see no reason to doubt 4mask claiming the kill, as I saw him target Jim and also, who does that? And Max hasn't claimed anything)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 08:26:14 am
Did your action succeed too, Toony?
My actions were successful on both nights, yes.
...
@webadict: Under what circumstances might a kill action succeed, but the target still be walking around alive? It seems to me that would only make sense in the case of an explicit revive, not protection; and in the case of an explicit revive we'd have seen the target die and come back like with TricMagic. Is that so? Is it possible that a player might have a revive ability which works silently?
All Actions succeed regardless of the Night outcome UNLESS they are unable to complete due to roleblocking or insufficient targeting (This could be a dead or ineligible target, or some other insufficient Action requirement.) Any Action may succeed but not necessarily complete as intended, such as your example of a kill being protected against. Both the protect and kill succeed, as they were not roleblocked or unable to target, but the kill resolution was halted by protection.

WUBA, when would a theoretical auto-revive occur? Immediately or at the end of the night?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 08:28:39 am
...
From the talk while I was asleep.. NQT, what are your thoughts on 4mask, town, other, or scum?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 08:49:20 am
I wouldn't rule out 4mask being on a scum team, but I think hitting Jim makes no sense when he could have shot a doc... unless he's on the same team as you.

Honestly that would fit a lot of the facts as we know them.

Tric, what do you think of Toony and Roden's claims to have both vigged and failed to vig? Do you think both are telling the truth?

Toony is a claimed double actor and with 4mask confirming the theft, we have reasonable reason to think he's telling the truth. He's in a good position to cause weird shenanigans.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 09:03:24 am
I wouldn't rule out 4mask being on a scum team, but I think hitting Jim makes no sense when he could have shot a doc... unless he's on the same team as you.

Honestly that would fit a lot of the facts as we know them.

Tric, what do you think of Toony and Roden's claims to have both vigged and failed to vig? Do you think both are telling the truth?

Toony is a claimed double actor and with 4mask confirming the theft, we have reasonable reason to think he's telling the truth. He's in a good position to cause weird shenanigans.
I more think there simply are not enough charts. Any reason for that?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 09:07:59 am
Nice deflection. You going to answer the questions?

(Also in a mechanical puzzle game like this, normal wagononics or whatever isn't very useful. On activity level: I would like to see a lot more of 4mask.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 09:34:43 am
Tony claimed to Vig? They claimed to have stolen something a while ago though?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 09:35:41 am
Also NQT, go with the assumption Roden and me are town? It would fit a lot better if you are town. If you're mafia you're just going to ignore this though.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2022, 09:48:18 am
WUBA, when would a theoretical auto-revive occur? Immediately or at the end of the night?
Revives are categorical. Revives are always displayed to all Players regardless of when they happen, but Revives typically happen immediately when death occurs, but that isn't a hardline rule.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2022, 10:00:31 am
I copied Roden last night and targeted 4mask to hopefully ensure 4mask would flip. If Roden did something else like inspect or track I would also get the results of that. When I copied Roden last night I didn't receive anything except that my action worked.

NQT or Roden is mafia, but not both.

If a 4mask/NQT team wants to win this, they need to argue that Roden was the one that made 4mask kill Jim, unfortunately in their planning last night they decided to scapegoat Tric, which doesn't work.

NQT claims they tracked 4mask when they really should have tracked Roden instead. This isn't because of a lapse of judgement, but because they needed to back up 4mask's claim that they were unwillingly hypnotised. Notice how NQT needed to talk about there being an "evil presence".

The weird part is, why did mafia not kill Roden? Roden was going to shoot 4mask or NQT for sure, but they let Roden live to kill Jim? Is this why NQT didn't die either?

Max is always town. You have to argue it's Roden/Tric or 4mask/NQT.

I have more reason to believe Roden and Tric.

Look at just today, Roden is claiming a shot that didn't kill and Tric is making Phoenix Wright posts about how I'm a liar and mafia. Meanwhile 4mask and NQT came in smooth as clockwork with their claims and cases. Total chaos vs total order.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 11:43:48 am
Bit of a weird point there Toony. You have to imagine your favoured scum team is smooth and competent enough to be able to write a series of claim posts, but also incompetent enough to shoot entirely the wrong people. It doesn't make sense. I know you're wrong here,  but I can't even see how you hope to explain your wrong ideas when you can't make the night actions stack up.

Pfp, more later
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2022, 12:26:22 pm
NQT, your opening D3 post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364092#msg8364092) is extremely odd.

You spend a bunch of D2 shading Roden and that we can't trust a vig claim, but then vote Tric instead of Roden when only a single kill happens N2? You should be all over Roden instead of just jostling them.

I don't think your behavior makes sense.

When D3 started I knew Max and Tric were town and that 4mask was mafia, but I wasn't sure if 4mask was with NQT or Roden. Your opening post cinched it though, so thank you.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 01:10:38 pm
Again that's weird from you. I made perfectly clear in my opening post that

1. I still distrusted Roden
But:
2. From the facts as I knew them, Tric was the common denominator on the most likely scum teams.

What's not to get about that?

Anyway, things have changed. Since you're apparently incapable of following my thread of argument I'll make my current thinking super clear in my next post.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2022, 02:17:06 pm
NQT, NQT, NQT.

You've stated you're extremely suspicious of Roden being a mafia vig. You know yourself from your "track" results that 4mask killed Jim and that scum was involved in some way. You heavily suspect Tric is the one that made 4mask kill Jim, yes?

Then what did Roden do last night? There was no second kill and mafia!Roden always fires, let alone town!Roden. This would allow Roden to "confirm" he's town if another townie were to die, and it gets another townie dead.

Mind you, I copied Roden last night as a Priority 0 ability so if Roden did something else this would also be getting applied to 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on April 02, 2022, 03:02:51 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
TricMagic - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363929#msg8363929), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364092#msg8364092),
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364051#msg8364051),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 3 - Roden, ToonyMan, TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364049#msg8364049),

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~52 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2022, 03:03:11 pm
NQT: Supposedly you believe that ToonyMan and 4maskwolf are both town. If so, you must presumably believe that they have genuinely exchanged an item that penetrates protects, specifically, between them. Do you believe that this item was actually a red herring, or that someone else has a secret, unmentioned protect ability? Are you softclaiming protection alongside your ridiculous "bad vibes smelling tracker" idea?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2022, 03:03:42 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
TricMagic - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363929#msg8363929), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364092#msg8364092),
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364051#msg8364051),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364049#msg8364049),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - Roden, ToonyMan,

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~52 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 03:49:29 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
TricMagic - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363929#msg8363929), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364092#msg8364092),
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364051#msg8364051),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364049#msg8364049),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - Roden, ToonyMan,

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~52 hours remaining).

looks up ::)
That is not a good look for you 4mask. (Or NQT for that matter.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 02, 2022, 04:39:51 pm
It rules out possible team combinations at least. We know for certain that any combination of Toony/Max/me is impossible now, or else Tric would be hammered.

Which means the Max super Cop plan is guaranteed to catch mafia, and likely just solved the game. Let's do it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2022, 05:03:29 pm
Which means the Max super Cop plan is guaranteed to catch mafia, and likely just solved the game. Let's do it.
Hold on, to be clear, what plan are you talking about? Me checking ToonyMan and expecting him to reload it if town?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2022, 05:05:30 pm
NQT: Supposedly you believe that ToonyMan and 4maskwolf are both town. If so, you must presumably believe that they have genuinely exchanged an item that penetrates protects, specifically, between them. Do you believe that this item was actually a red herring, or that someone else has a secret, unmentioned protect ability? Are you softclaiming protection alongside your ridiculous "bad vibes smelling tracker" idea?
Excellent point. 4mask and myself can confirm that 4mask received a protection-based ability from Tric, who has also claimed being a doctor.

It rules out possible team combinations at least. We know for certain that any combination of Toony/Max/me is impossible now, or else Tric would be hammered.
Also true, if there were two mafia inside Toony/Max/Roden then two of us could hammer Tric for a reasonable game win.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2022, 05:11:13 pm
NQT: Supposedly you believe that ToonyMan and 4maskwolf are both town. If so, you must presumably believe that they have genuinely exchanged an item that penetrates protects, specifically, between them. Do you believe that this item was actually a red herring, or that someone else has a secret, unmentioned protect ability? Are you softclaiming protection alongside your ridiculous "bad vibes smelling tracker" idea?
Excellent point. 4mask and myself can confirm that 4mask received a protection-based ability from Tric, who has also claimed being a doctor.
We can take it further than that, you know.
I can confirm that 4mask's role really is X-Com. So, why does X-Com dissect aliens? To use their technology against them. If you can confirm that 4mask received the ability to penetrate protection from dissecting Tric, it's reasonable to infer that he would have had the ability to use it as well.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 05:28:52 pm
NQT: Supposedly you believe that ToonyMan and 4maskwolf are both town. If so, you must presumably believe that they have genuinely exchanged an item that penetrates protects, specifically, between them. Do you believe that this item was actually a red herring, or that someone else has a secret, unmentioned protect ability? Are you softclaiming protection alongside your ridiculous "bad vibes smelling tracker" idea?
Excellent point. 4mask and myself can confirm that 4mask received a protection-based ability from Tric, who has also claimed being a doctor.
We can take it further than that, you know.
I can confirm that 4mask's role really is X-Com. So, why does X-Com dissect aliens? To use their technology against them. If you can confirm that 4mask received the ability to penetrate protection from dissecting Tric, it's reasonable to infer that he would have had the ability to use it as well.
To be fair, Sacrifice is literally P1, there is no blocking it normally. Unless you use something that bypasses it entirely.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 05:41:20 pm
OK finally got some time to sit down and properly think through all the revelations of the day.

The pertinent facts are:

1. 4mask necessarily performed the kill on Jim (claiming to have been hypnotised)
2. Toony's claim to have stolen an item from 4mask is confirmed by 4mask.
3. Toony claims to have copied Roden's action on 4maskwolf
4. Tric claims to have protected 4mask
5. Roden claims to have shot NQT
6. Jim was the only person to die.
7. Max apparently did something investigative but won't claim
8. NQT tracked 4mask to Jim

So we must ask:

- Is there a combination of actions which makes all these claims true and fits with the facts?
- What possible teams could account for the discrepancies between the claims?

Possible Teams

Roden and Toony

Roden could have hypno'd 4mask, and Toony stolen an item. There never was any vig shots. Toony is a godfather. If Roden is scum, then Toony has to be in on it. For instance, a Roden/Tric team wouldn't work, as then who would have performed the kill (as a town!Toony confirms Roden makes the shot).

Toony and Max

One hypnotises 4mask, the other protects NQT (why??). Not likely.

Toony and Tric
Tric's protect protects a random town person as a drawback OR they have a one-shot that protects everyone (which bounces off of Jim onto 4mask). This latter power is actually quite plausible, as Tric already claimed to be able to stop all kills in a night (on N1). In this scenario, Tric intends to protect Toony, while Toony hypnotises 4mask.

4mask and Tric

Tric has a overpowered protect as above, which he uses to protect his scum buddy 4mask, blocking Toony and Roden's shots. scum!4mask not shooting the doctor makes sense in this scenario as the 'doctor' is scum.

4mask and Max

4mask shoots Jim, Max protects NQT (why???). This one works for the actions but makes no sense, motive-wise.

Max and Tric

Max hypnotises 4mask into killing Jim, an action he would obviously be framed for; Tric casts a one-shot mass protect on everyone (which bounces off of poor Jim). This works with the actions, but why would scum!Tric protect when the vig target wasn't going to be one of the mafia? This doesn't seem likely.

NQT and 4mask

4mask shoots Jim in a unforced error instead of the doctor, then NQT revives from being shot without creating a revived message. This is tactically unlikely and mechanically impossible.

NQT and Max

NQT hypnotises 4mask into kill Jim. Max protects NQT. This team works with the facts and would be a tactically sound plan. If I didn't know it was false, I'd be suspicious of this combo.

NQT and Toony

NQT hypnotises 4mask, Toony steals from 4mask. This also fits the facts. 

Unusual variants

There could be an OP 3rd party messing with everyone, there might be one single all-powerful scum player, there could be mafia allies etc. There's too many edge cases to consider, but as we have no reason to believe these are in play, we can set them aside for our sanity.



If we rule out all the mechanically impossible and motiveless team ups, this is the web of possible teams:

(https://i.imgur.com/hKl24UY.png)

As such, either Toony or Tric or both are scum. Given that if there is a two-person scum team, we're in MYLO, if we can't definitely decide between Toony and Tric, we should no vote.

I know I'm not infallible and I'm a big enough person to admit I can overlook things (like I missed the logically intertwining of Toony and Roden, at first). So what possibility am I missing here?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 05:56:53 pm
Ah just seeing this interesting point:
It rules out possible team combinations at least. We know for certain that any combination of Toony/Max/me is impossible now, or else Tric would be hammered.

Two mafia quickhammering Tric would require a degree of co-ordination between them, as just putting Tric at -1 and waiting would be a risky move. Still, it does give us good reason to doubt the Roden + Toony team, in favour of the Tric teams. The most straightforward reason Tric hasn't been hammered is that Tric is scum.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 05:58:19 pm
You point out a theoretical all-protect, but I already did that. It killed me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 06:01:50 pm
You point out a theoretical all-protect, but I already did that. It killed me.
In this scenario, you used your existing all-protect as the fake claim for your N1 action, and what really happened on N1 was you died because you or your team mate shot 4mask and the shot was bussed onto you (but you also had a revive up your sleeve).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 06:05:56 pm
Max, as the only person I'm now pretty certain is town in all these scenarios, I'd like your input. I know you've been reluctant to give your own reads (bad play but possibly NAI for you) but I would like to know your assessment of the different teams I've laid out.

It would be useful not to rely on your night game plans when scum could just shoot you, and get your input while you're actually still alive.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 06:06:57 pm
Tric, please could you give me your best case on Toony. Why is he more likely scum than you in these scenarios?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2022, 06:11:24 pm
Max, as the only person I'm now pretty certain is town in all these scenarios, I'd like your input. I know you've been reluctant to give your own reads (bad play but possibly NAI for you) but I would like to know your assessment of the different teams I've laid out.
You sure did ignore an awful lot of combinations. Maybe you thought they were less plausible, but I would have liked to know why.

Also, you and I can't be scum together because then there would be no investigators at all.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2022, 06:17:41 pm
Likewise, NQT really hasn't read day 1. They are pretty much ignoring the fact I advertised that with asking people to shoot me. The fact they're asking me of all people to give a case when they are the ones that need that...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 06:26:22 pm
Pfp

What combos did I miss Max? I'm pretty clear about my reasoning that the only Roden combo that makes sense is Toony. Most of the other combos are ruled out by the combo of Tric and Toonys failed shot claims + the fact 4mask made the actual kill. That limits severely who can be with who.

Genuinely put in the actual work if you think I'm wrong here. If there's a viable combo I missed, tell me about it.

And yeah, the lack of investigators is academic because we both know the team isn't Max/NQT.

---
Tric, you're on the firing line here. I'm asking you to do a bit if actual scum hunting. Pretty telling that you're not.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 06:35:30 pm
I missed:

Roden + Not Toony
I already mentioned this, but how could Roden have shot Jim if town!Toony confirms Roden made a shot and 4mask claims to have been hypnotised. Makes no sense

Toony and 4mask
4mask makes the kill, Toony protects NQT. Why?? Also makes no sense.

And.... I think that's it, right? Not "an awful lot of combinations", Max. I guess you assumed there were more combos unaccounted for after a glance at the chart.  In each combo I describe, I say clearly whether its possible  or remotely plausible.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2022, 07:13:38 pm
I missed:

Roden + Not Toony
I already mentioned this, but how could Roden have shot Jim if town!Toony confirms Roden made a shot and 4mask claims to have been hypnotised. Makes no sense

Toony and 4mask
4mask makes the kill, Toony protects NQT. Why?? Also makes no sense.

And.... I think that's it, right? Not "an awful lot of combinations", Max. I guess you assumed there were more combos unaccounted for after a glance at the chart.  In each combo I describe, I say clearly whether its possible  or remotely plausible.
Along with yourself and Tric, that makes 6 combinations you didn't mention. In the post, not the chart. Compared to 9 scenarios mentioned, that's an additional ⅔, seems like a lot to me.
Why couldn't Roden have been on a team with 4mask who took the shot? Or, for that matter, with anyone who hypnotised 4mask?
I am not saying I think these combinations are necessarily likely, I'm saying that, by leaving them out and also including some other combinations that you say are implausible, you give undue weight to the ones you mention in contrast to the ones you don't mention. If you don't want to spend time on implausible scenarios than just list them all in a single section, but don't cherry-pick them.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 02, 2022, 07:20:56 pm
Which means the Max super Cop plan is guaranteed to catch mafia, and likely just solved the game. Let's do it.
Hold on, to be clear, what plan are you talking about? Me checking ToonyMan and expecting him to reload it if town?
Both Docs on you, Toony gives you the Doc block to ensure it can't be used to get you killed. For good measure, maybe Toony can use the Roleblock preventer ability to make sure your Cop check goes through.

Ah just seeing this interesting point:
It rules out possible team combinations at least. We know for certain that any combination of Toony/Max/me is impossible now, or else Tric would be hammered.

Two mafia quickhammering Tric would require a degree of co-ordination between them, as just putting Tric at -1 and waiting would be a risky move. Still, it does give us good reason to doubt the Roden + Toony team, in favour of the Tric teams. The most straightforward reason Tric hasn't been hammered is that Tric is scum.
You're cautious about a coordinated mis-lynch from me and Toony, yet you haven't unvoted...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 02, 2022, 07:24:26 pm
My character development is that I've learned my lesson about voting in MYLO. But man NQT just feels like obvscum at this point.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 07:29:11 pm
Pff

I did mention the invalid Roden combos in my original post.

I did forget to list me and Tric:

NQT and Tric

NQT hypnotises 4mask, Tric protects everyone except Jim in order to protect NQT (why not protect directly?). I overlooked this one as an oversight. It still leaves Tric as the common denominator (though I personally know its false)

Again, to repeat myself:

Roden and 4mask
4mask makes the kill, Roden shoots someone (who?) for Toony to copy. Who does Roden shoot? How come mafia have two kill powers in one night? It's not possible and the fact that you think this could be possible shows how little you've thought this through.

--

Roden are you actually going to give me a reason Tric isn't scum here or are you going to keep sniping? I know you think I'm scum because I hurt your feelings suspecting you all game, but if you are town could you do some solving maybe?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2022, 07:43:08 pm
Roden and 4mask
4mask makes the kill, Roden shoots someone (who?) for Toony to copy. Who does Roden shoot? How come mafia have two kill powers in one night? It's not possible and the fact that you think this could be possible shows how little you've thought this through.
Why on earth is it impossible for a mafia player to also have a one-shot kill of his own if his role is, by his own admission, a video game enemy with an attack? This is a BYOR, not a standard game where powers are assigned "logically".

I do not agree with your definition of "thinking this through" because it seems to mean "arbitrarily deciding that things you personally lack the imagination to do must be impossible".
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2022, 07:51:55 pm
Mafia don't typically get double kills in a nine person game. But let's imagine that Wuba thought it'd be a funny idea, or it was balanced by lots of protects etc floating around:

Who does Roden shoot and why does it fail? The only person being protected in this scenario is... 4mask. Or are you saying a plausible scenario is Roden shot his buddy 4mask to distance himself in the end game, but this plan was thwarted by Tric protecting 4mask?

But even this scenario doesn't work because, unless I am mistaken, a protect is only good for one kill. Tric's protect would bounce Roden"s bullet but not Toony's.

Come on.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2022, 08:13:10 pm
But even this scenario doesn't work because, unless I am mistaken, a protect is only good for one kill. Tric's protect would bounce Roden"s bullet but not Toony's.
According to whom? Do you know the text of Tric's ability? Mine don't exactly work like normal vanilla abilities either.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 02, 2022, 08:58:14 pm
Roden are you actually going to give me a reason Tric isn't scum here or are you going to keep sniping? I know you think I'm scum because I hurt your feelings suspecting you all game, but if you are town could you do some solving maybe?
I've literally been scum reading your slot since before you replaced in.

I already explained how this gets solved. At this point, Tric could only be partnered with Toony.  Otherwise my NQT/4mask solve from yesterday still holds true.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 03, 2022, 09:15:19 am
Unvote for now. NQT is not looking good, for all I gave you the benefit of the doubt..
Also, me being on the firing line is literally just you and 4mask voting me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on April 03, 2022, 10:30:40 am
Vote Count
------------------------
TricMagic - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363929#msg8363929), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364092#msg8364092),
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364051#msg8364051),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 3 - Roden, ToonyMan, TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364698#msg8364698),

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~33 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2022, 12:23:13 pm
NQT and 4mask

4mask shoots Jim in a unforced error instead of the doctor, then NQT revives from being shot without creating a revived message. This is tactically unlikely and mechanically impossible.
Hah!

I already mentioned this, but how could Roden have shot Jim if town!Toony confirms Roden made a shot and 4mask claims to have been hypnotised. Makes no sense
I don't know if Roden actually shot. I can only confirm I copied him last night and successfuly performed an action that doesn't give back results. So Roden did something that doesn't give back results, like vigging. I claimed my second action last because I wanted Roden to claim without knowing what I did.

You keep saying 4mask would kill Tric and not Jim, but you need to remember that as far as mafia knew I was likely going to bus drive Tric with someone else on N2 as it was made clear here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8362549#msg8362549). It would be suicide to try to kill Tric as my top suspects were 4mask and NQT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2022, 12:28:52 pm
I'm fine with voting NQT or 4mask today so we can win or lose sooner, but if people aren't comfortable with that we can no-lynch.

Roden and Tric both have doctor protects.

I'll refill Max's one-shot and make them immune to being roleblocked.
Max, if you have more than one one-shot I'll need to know the exact name of the one you want refilled.

Max can cop someone with the guaranteed results one-shot.

4mask and NQT can uh do something.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2022, 12:35:09 pm
@NQT:
Instead of giving an overview of every possible combination (which I don't find very helpful) you could instead look through the game thread and argue why Tric and Roden are the mafia since, you know, you're voting them.

I don't have much for D1 except finding 4mask suspicious the entire day. If I'm right then he was mafia with Knightwing64 who didn't do anything during D1, which of course made things more difficult.

D2 is much the same story: I found NQT extremely suspicious as soon as they started posting on D2. It basically just came to my paranoia of 4mask/Jim or Jack/Tric that screwed up D2 as both NQT and 4mask were on the chopping block at the end of D2.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2022, 12:37:07 pm
Max, if you have more than one one-shot I'll need to know the exact name of the one you want refilled.
"Validity".
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 09:18:22 am
Just radio silence from both sides?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 04, 2022, 09:44:25 am
Just radio silence from both sides?
Who knows, maybe Roden and Toony are the mafia but can't actually kill tonight, so they can't guarantee a win by hammering and what Roden said earlier is invalid, and are instead planning to wait out a kill on you while half-assedly objecting.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 09:48:05 am
Roden should win no matter what I think. If he's town then mafia shouldn't be able to kill two people tonight and unless they have something up their sleeve we win. If he's mafia then we probably lose. So it's almost a guaranteed Roden victory regardless.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 09:52:39 am
We increase our chances of not getting duped by a hidden mafia ability if we vote off NQT or 4mask, so that's safer in that sense. On the other hand, if we're being tricked by a mafia team that doesn't contain NQT and 4mask then we doom ourselves. The only thing I can think of would be Roden/Tric but I really don't believe that's true. And I think Max is always town here.

Basically I don't believe Roden and NQT can be the same alignment and it comes down to which one we believe more.

It's going to be embarrassing for town no matter what happens.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 09:57:26 am
That is another thing I find ultra baffling about NQT's opening post D3.

They voted Tric instead of Roden, why?

Roden should be super scum from NQT's POV, but instead they copy 4mask and vote Tric even though Roden could have just as easily been the "hypnotizer" and not Tric.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 04, 2022, 11:29:05 am
Roden should be super scum from NQT's POV, but instead they copy 4mask and vote Tric even though Roden could have just as easily been the "hypnotizer" and not Tric.
You could just read what I wrote.

It's obvious to me that the team must be TricMagic/Roden:

Tric 'protects' 4mask, after Roden had claimed to want to vig 4mask. So they set up their alibis early. Tric hypnotises ("power of friendship") 4mask into performing the kill. Jim was picked as the target because everyone knows only 4mask can kill Jim. And also Jim had expressed doubt about Tric's clam (the implausibility of "sacrifice").

Either that, or a scum!4mask just straight up shot Jim (why??) while his scum partner Tric doctored him, anticipating a shot from the vig. In either of these scenarios, Tric is scum. POE: Tric, Roden, 4mask.

At that time, with the facts as they were know to me, there were two likely teams. And both had Tric on them. So Tric was the best vote (and, indeed, still is for similar reasons). Simple predicate logic:

(A AND B) OR (B AND C) = B AND (C OR A)

Don't tell me you don't understand this basic argument.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 04, 2022, 11:32:23 am
Like, it's not baffling in the slightest. How can we explain this?

1. You have poor reading comprehension
2. You're scum and just making shit up
3. You forgot what I actually said and are just going off a version you made up in your head
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 12:45:20 pm
Roden should be super scum from NQT's POV, but instead they copy 4mask and vote Tric even though Roden could have just as easily been the "hypnotizer" and not Tric.
You could just read what I wrote.

It's obvious to me that the team must be TricMagic/Roden:

Tric 'protects' 4mask, after Roden had claimed to want to vig 4mask. So they set up their alibis early. Tric hypnotises ("power of friendship") 4mask into performing the kill. Jim was picked as the target because everyone knows only 4mask can kill Jim. And also Jim had expressed doubt about Tric's clam (the implausibility of "sacrifice").

Either that, or a scum!4mask just straight up shot Jim (why??) while his scum partner Tric doctored him, anticipating a shot from the vig. In either of these scenarios, Tric is scum. POE: Tric, Roden, 4mask.

At that time, with the facts as they were know to me, there were two likely teams. And both had Tric on them. So Tric was the best vote (and, indeed, still is for similar reasons). Simple predicate logic:

(A AND B) OR (B AND C) = B AND (C OR A)

Don't tell me you don't understand this basic argument.
It's fundamentally faulty though. If I protected 4mask, then how could I hypnotize them? So the team would have to be Roden/Tric, but you also need to look at night 1 where there was no kill, I simply revived. And looking at day 1 you see that I was flaunting that. But then, how did I set up the case where there was no night 1 kill? Still has to be Roden/Tric. But your base falls apart. It's built on sand, there isn't any reason to it NQT. Likewise, you accuse Toony of being scum, but focus on me, the easiest target to lynch. I would not be surprised if this is just theater.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 04, 2022, 01:10:54 pm
Pfp

Tric, reread what I wrote. In that passage I'm saying you claimed protect but actually hypnotised in that scenario.

Guys, am I just really unclear?? Can I not wrote or something?

Also, Tric, that quote isn't even the latest bit of reasoning about your actions. See one of my more recent posts please.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 01:14:11 pm
Roden should be super scum from NQT's POV, but instead they copy 4mask and vote Tric even though Roden could have just as easily been the "hypnotizer" and not Tric.
You could just read what I wrote.

It's obvious to me that the team must be TricMagic/Roden:

Tric 'protects' 4mask, after Roden had claimed to want to vig 4mask. So they set up their alibis early. Tric hypnotises ("power of friendship") 4mask into performing the kill. Jim was picked as the target because everyone knows only 4mask can kill Jim. And also Jim had expressed doubt about Tric's clam (the implausibility of "sacrifice").

Either that, or a scum!4mask just straight up shot Jim (why??) while his scum partner Tric doctored him, anticipating a shot from the vig. In either of these scenarios, Tric is scum. POE: Tric, Roden, 4mask.

At that time, with the facts as they were know to me, there were two likely teams. And both had Tric on them. So Tric was the best vote (and, indeed, still is for similar reasons). Simple predicate logic:

(A AND B) OR (B AND C) = B AND (C OR A)

Don't tell me you don't understand this basic argument.

You want to use logic? Okay.

1. 4mask and I can confirm that Tric's death gave 4mask a protection based ability, not some hypnotizing ability. In addition, there would be no use for this item if Tric was mafia with the one exception of Roden's one-shot protect...which would also be useless if the team is Tric/Roden.
2. Roden said they were going to shoot last night, but only Jim died by 4mask's hand. Is Roden's entire role-claim on D2 false? They're either lying scum or something weird happened.
3. Roden said they shot you last night and you didn't die. Either he's lying, you're lying, or a hidden malefactor is at play. This hidden malefactor would not be Tric as it paints Roden poorly for no benefit in a Tric/Roden world.

Order of events on D3:
4mask (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363929#msg8363929) - "The bad: I was somehow hypnotized into killing Jim Groovester and one of my items got ganked."
Roden (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363930#msg8363930) - "NQT, you're not a pure Tracker. Full claim please."
4mask (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363933#msg8363933) - Fullclaims their XCOM role.
Toony (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363937#msg8363937) - "I'm the one that stole the Celestial Gauntlets from you 4mask."
Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364052#msg8364052) - "I protected 4mask last night." Also some insane theories that don't make sense.
Note: Even Tric expected to get bussed by me last night. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364054#msg8364054)
Partial claims by me (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364069#msg8364069) and Max. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364071#msg8364071)
NQT (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364092#msg8364092) - Mostly fullclaims their role and actions, leaves out role names.
NQT tries to argue (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364143#msg8364143) that mafia would shoot Tric if he was really doctor, but this doesn't make sense if mafia fear my bus driving, which they would expect me to do during N2 still.
Roden (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364182#msg8364182) - "The reason I made these requests is because I targeted you, NQT. Everyone acting shocked that 4mask isn't dead...why? Why are you confused? I made it clear I wanted to lynch NQT yesterday and only wanted to Vig 4mask because no one else was a viable target. But since you guys wanted to mis-lynch an obvtown after I told you all not to AGAIN, I feel like it should be obvious that I was going to shoot NQT."
"Two, and this is a much bigger problem: my action was successful. My results told me that I, as a fact, did manage to flatten NQT into a pancake. However, he's still here. Why? If Tric targeted 4mask, why was my action still successful, yet NQT still lives?"
Roden (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364188#msg8364188) - Roden theorizes what could be happening if my second yet-to-be-claimed action was me bus driving again. You know, that thing I heavily hinted at doing with Max on D2 and left in the minds of everyone that would keep mafia from wanting to kill Tric.
Toony (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364192#msg8364192) - I claim my second action that I copied Roden and targeted 4mask.
Max (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364521#msg8364521) - Max implies they role-copped 4mask last night and can confirm their role is called X-Com.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 01:31:59 pm
Pfp

Tric, reread what I wrote. In that passage I'm saying you claimed protect but actually hypnotised in that scenario.

Guys, am I just really unclear?? Can I not wrote or something?

Also, Tric, that quote isn't even the latest bit of reasoning about your actions. See one of my more recent posts please.
That's the fundamental flaw though. While we now know Roden didn't shoot 4mask last night, why would I know that? At the end of the day you have to say my doctor claim is complete bogus for that to work.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 01:32:50 pm
Pfp

Tric, reread what I wrote. In that passage I'm saying you claimed protect but actually hypnotised in that scenario.

Guys, am I just really unclear?? Can I not wrote or something?

Also, Tric, that quote isn't even the latest bit of reasoning about your actions. See one of my more recent posts please.
That's the fundamental flaw though. While we now know Roden didn't shoot 4mask last night, why would I know that? At the end of the day you have to say my doctor claim is complete bogus for that to work.
.... Also, that is your most recent post. Are you paying attention or just trying to deflect attention?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 02:44:10 pm
... Also a note that the day ends today and at the moment 4mask/NQT have their votes on me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 04, 2022, 03:14:08 pm
Just radio silence from both sides?
I'm literally just waiting for the day to end. If I were to vote now, I'd vote NQT, but I seeing as I have two different sides vying for my vote, I'd rather not. Let's just let the Cop do their job.

No One
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 03:23:23 pm
No Lynch
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 04, 2022, 05:19:51 pm
Toony
1. 4mask and I can confirm that Tric's death gave 4mask a protection based ability, not some hypnotizing ability. In addition, there would be no use for this item if Tric was mafia with the one exception of Roden's one-shot protect...which would also be useless if the team is Tric/Roden.[/i] - Argument for Tric protecting scenario
2. Roden said they were going to shoot last night, but only Jim died by 4mask's hand. Is Roden's entire role-claim on D2 false? They're either lying scum or something weird happened.
3. Roden said they shot you last night and you didn't die. Either he's lying, you're lying, or a hidden malefactor is at play. This hidden malefactor would not be Tric as it paints Roden poorly for no benefit in a Tric/Roden world.

All three of these points were addressed in the most likely three teams I laid out. Again, I literally don't know why I bother when it's guaranteed nothing I write will be read. In all of these scenarios, Tric genuinely does use a protect and Roden either shoots or you and Roden are both lying. Literally accounted for all of this.

Spoiler: All accounted for (click to show/hide)

Hell, I'm struggling to believe a town Toony would be this wilfully ignorant, just straight up pretending I've said things I haven't. What gives?



Max, Tric, 4mask some input on the Toony/Roden match up please. The action sequence repeated here for your convenience:

Roden and Toony
Roden could have hypno'd 4mask, and Toony stolen an item. There never was any vig shots. Toony is a godfather.

That's all compatible with the facts as we know them, right?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 05:51:44 pm
I have no idea if Roden actually made a vig shot, which you also don't appear to be able to read.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 05:56:13 pm
NQT or Roden is lying, which is why I STILL find it baffling you've gone after Tric and now me instead of Roden, what the fuck?

Like dude, there's this part of me that's like "if Roden just held onto his vig shot and is mafia then town just loses if we no-lynch", but your absolute REFUSAL to understand me is pissing me off.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 05:58:05 pm
Toony
1. 4mask and I can confirm that Tric's death gave 4mask a protection based ability, not some hypnotizing ability. In addition, there would be no use for this item if Tric was mafia with the one exception of Roden's one-shot protect...which would also be useless if the team is Tric/Roden.[/i] - Argument for Tric protecting scenario
2. Roden said they were going to shoot last night, but only Jim died by 4mask's hand. Is Roden's entire role-claim on D2 false? They're either lying scum or something weird happened.
3. Roden said they shot you last night and you didn't die. Either he's lying, you're lying, or a hidden malefactor is at play. This hidden malefactor would not be Tric as it paints Roden poorly for no benefit in a Tric/Roden world.

All three of these points were addressed in the most likely three teams I laid out. Again, I literally don't know why I bother when it's guaranteed nothing I write will be read. In all of these scenarios, Tric genuinely does use a protect and Roden either shoots or you and Roden are both lying. Literally accounted for all of this.

Spoiler: All accounted for (click to show/hide)

Hell, I'm struggling to believe a town Toony would be this wilfully ignorant, just straight up pretending I've said things I haven't. What gives?



Max, Tric, 4mask some input on the Toony/Roden match up please. The action sequence repeated here for your convenience:

Roden and Toony
Roden could have hypno'd 4mask, and Toony stolen an item. There never was any vig shots. Toony is a godfather.

That's all compatible with the facts as we know them, right?
Rn you're making theories to match up with the facts, all to paint the team as someone else. Not actually working to determine which theories you have are false, you're just letting/telling others do so.


I am fine with voting NQT off at this point.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 05:59:48 pm
Also Toony, I don't think there is any rule against trading items around during the day phase. So you can pass those gauntlets on now. (And 4mask should have been able to do that too instead of it being locked to an auto-thing.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 06:00:30 pm
And you know why I want you dead instead of Roden? Because I believe Roden is telling the truth. If he tricked me then good games, he wins. If he's legit then town is in a good position to win. That's what's going to happen.

Meanwhile Tric is sounding as scummy as fucking possible so I get to enjoy that for another day end, but I don't really care if I lose to Roden/Tric anymore because that would mean I was wrong about pretty much everything this game. So congratulations 4mask and NQT, you guys were right and me and Max get to lose town the game.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 06:01:01 pm
Also Toony, I don't think there is any rule against trading items around during the day phase. So you can pass those gauntlets on now. (And 4mask should have been able to do that too instead of it being locked to an auto-thing.)
If I can I'll give the Gauntlets to Max right now.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 06:23:20 pm
I'm probably done today since I'm doing something and day is almost over so I'm just going to vote now.

No Lynch
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2022, 06:24:46 pm
I got a response back from Web: I can't give away the Gauntlets, so they're staying with me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on April 04, 2022, 06:29:57 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364051#msg8364051),
ToonyMan - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365049#msg8365049),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363929#msg8363929),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
No One - 3 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365012#msg8365012), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365071#msg8365071), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365016#msg8365016),

Not Voting - 0 -

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (1 hours and 32 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2022, 06:30:39 pm
Oops, the bot doesn't know how no one works yet, ignore its dumbness.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2022, 07:15:20 pm
I got a response back from Web: I can't give away the Gauntlets, so they're staying with me.
... Don't think that's how special items is webadict games normally work, or maybe it differs. Still not a good thing though for 4mask's case though.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 04, 2022, 07:20:24 pm
Max, Tric, 4mask some input on the Toony/Roden match up please. The action sequence repeated here for your convenience:

Roden and Toony
Roden could have hypno'd 4mask, and Toony stolen an item. There never was any vig shots. Toony is a godfather.

That's all compatible with the facts as we know them, right?
It's possible, but then why haven't they hammered?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 04, 2022, 07:24:10 pm
I got a response back from Web: I can't give away the Gauntlets, so they're staying with me.
... Don't think that's how special items is webadict games normally work, or maybe it differs. Still not a good thing though for 4mask's case though.
It's, unfortunately, consistent with what 4mask said - that he had an *auto* that allowed him to give away the items - so we can't say anything with certainty.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 3: Jim Grooves Outta Here [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2022, 08:51:23 pm
As the discussion winds down, there seems to be little evidence to indicate a murderer, and the group decides they need more time. The detective, now visibly pale and sweating, nods his head before shooing them from the room. As the group leaves the side room, the laughter and celebration barely phases them, as they spread out into the dance hall.

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8364051#msg8364051),
ToonyMan - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365049#msg8365049),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8363929#msg8363929),
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
No One - 3 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365012#msg8365012), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365071#msg8365071), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365016#msg8365016),

Not Voting - 0 -

4 to Hammer. Day ends on April 04, 2022 at 20:00 CDT

No one was executed.


It is now Night.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Night 3: No One Lives Forever [6 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 05, 2022, 07:27:41 pm
You all return to the side room, except for Maximum Spin. The detective is slumped forward, and you worry that he might be dead before one of the servants gently wakes him up. The detective, with slightly slurred words, motions toward the bloody knife. He tells you that this is a matter of life and death.

“Why haven’t you done what I’ve asked yet?”

You don’t have time to debate, as he collapses to the floor.

There is no more time left. You must find the murderers.


Maximum Spin has died.

Maximum Spin was Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (town).


Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 5 - 4maskwolf, notquitethere, Roden, ToonyMan, TricMagic,

3 to Hammer. Day ends on April 08, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~72 hours remaining).


It is now Day.

Quote
Role: Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI)
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead and at least one Town member is alive.

{P9} (Night) Standard Assessment [target]: You give the target a quick test. You learn the target’s role name.
{P9} (Night) Phase II Personality Test [target]: You give the target a longer test. You learn the target’s alignment. You can use this as a free Action on a target that was previously targeted with Standard Assessment.
{P-1} (1-Shot, Night, Free) Validity: Your Phase II Personality Test is not affected by other Abilities. This is a free Action.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 05, 2022, 07:30:44 pm
Yeah this is exactly why I didn't just vote yesterday.

Tric, you want to explain why Max is dead? What's your excuse for not protecting him?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 05, 2022, 07:32:30 pm
NQT, don't give your results until Tric answers what he did last night.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 05, 2022, 07:52:20 pm
I can take a wild guess why Max is dead, but I want to hear what Tric did first.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 05, 2022, 10:23:00 pm
You protected me last night instead of Max, didn't you Roden?

I'm going to bed for today. Nobody vote for any reason or I'll beat you up.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 02:48:47 am
No, I targeted Max. NQT hasn't immediately guiltied me, so you can trust that I'm not lying.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 06, 2022, 06:22:23 am
Just waking up now. I'm very curious as to why Max died.

NQT, don't give your results until Tric answers what he did last night.
Good idea.

Guess we're twiddling our thumbs until Tric gets here. Also, I'm curious to see who Toony protected from roleblocks, but I suppose that can wait until after Tric. Did anyone get any item from 4mask?

A doctoring looks exactly the same as a killing as far as my tracking goes. Tric's answer might change things... but I think I know who I'm voting today.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 08:05:05 am
I also protected Max, but for some reason a bunch of servants got in the way and I lost sight of him. (fluff-wise).

So my action just ended up failing. As it didn't say I succeeded, Max died do to someone bypassing my protection. (and rodens?) Only person who could do that is Toony as far as I know. Or NQT has something.

That said, 4mask is a likely link. But more likely Toony is scum at this point in my eyes.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 08:20:35 am
Thank you Tric.

So both Roden and Tric protected Max, as expected.

Now, I wonder which players I targeted?

In any case, I can confirm that mafia have a oneshot called Superkill that bypasses redirections and protections. I wonder how I could possibly know this. They appear to have unfortunately held onto it until last night.

This is good info though, as it means mafia were given a way to deal with protections, in other words MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE Tric is almost certainly town from that fact alone. It might actually come down to him for lylo which is really annoying because he'll need to believe I'm not a godfather in a game with already two miller, but anyway.

I feel like Roden is genuine here, or at the very least not mafia with NQT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 08:27:13 am
How very convenient Toony. That Mafia would have something that makes the protective abilities completely useless.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 08:33:34 am
I will full claim now since it's lylo. I recommend NQT does the same.

I am Yami Yugi as well as Yugi Moto.

My auto is Millennium Transformation that let's me switch between roles to perform two actions at night.

Yami Yugi has:
Mind Crush - remove autos
Duel - steal ability
Shuffle - refill oneshot
 
Yugi Moto has:
Heart of the Cards - copy one player ability onto another
Horn of the Unicorn - prevent roleblocks
Magical Hats - bus drive

I also hold Celestial Gauntlets.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 09:18:43 am
Keep in mind Tric that me and Roden can't be mafia together as we had all the time in the world to hammer you yesterday for game. I would have to be mafia with 4mask or NQT, and I'm very willing to vote either, though I prefer 4mask as I just don't see Roden with NQT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 09:39:27 am
... You do know Roden is town-read by me right? Why in the world would I think that?

Also, I note you didn't ask what 4mask did last night. Theoretically he should have given someone an item. But so far no one has claimed that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 09:48:47 am
Am I suppose to ask 4mask if he brushed his teeth this morning? I'm starting to forget 4mask exists except that I've wanted them dead the entire game and tried to shoot them on N2.

This pretty much confirms he gave the vote ability to Jim for brownie points though. It frustratingly made Jim unwilling to vote 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 09:51:02 am
How in the world did you shoot someone though? None of your abilities does that.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 09:53:29 am
Tric, you can't be mafia unless it's exactly with Roden. But then that means every doctor in this game is mafia and mafia have kills that go through protection for no reason. It's so unlikely it only bolsters my reads of Roden and Tric in the first place.

How in the world did you shoot someone though? None of your abilities does that.
I copied Roden on N2. I strongly believe they tried to shoot NQT, which also failed FOR SOME REASON.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 10:18:14 am
It says copy ability. That only really works...
You know, for all that I'm pretty sure you aren't giving all the info. If you are 2, then what is to say you don't have 2 actions per night?

Heart of the Cards - copy one player ability onto another
This says nothing about using the ability you copied. So you would have had to use it Night 1 on Roden. In which case, there was no bussing, you used Mind Crush. On night 2 you stole something from 4mask, but I don't actually believe that, I think you were gifted it.

Wait, no, reset.

--------
N1 you used your Duel/Bus, targeting Roden with the first and... Been a while since day 1.
N2 you used your stolen abil


... That doesn't work either unless you literally misaligned them on purpose. So, N1 you used Heart of the Cards to copy an ability. Say Roden. (I have my doubts on this actually working on you.) N2 you used it to shoot someone while Mafia also did the kill. However something went wrong. (NQT holds that piece I think. Or the dead Jim)
N3 you used the Celestia Gauntlets to bypass our doctoring to kill Max, so that he wouldn't reveal the truth. Yugi is innocent, Yami isn't. You can hide your own alignment like in the duel with Pegasus. If Max saw your role, or your alignnment, it makes sense that Max had to die before you could pull this reveal, there isn't anyone capable of disproving you mechanically anymore.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 10:21:50 am
If this doesn't really make sense, it's cause I'm not awake yet. But the Celestial Gauntlets are the only known item to bypass everything. We didn't get redirected.

Quote
{P9} (Night) Phase II Personality Test [target]: You give the target a longer test. You learn the target’s alignment. You can use this as a free Action on a target that was previously targeted with Standard Assessment.
{P-1} (1-Shot, Night, Free) Validity: Your Phase II Personality Test is not affected by other Abilities. This is a free Action.
Why does this exist? We have 3 millers who are all town. So why wouldn't mafia have 1 town who is actually mafia?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 10:31:43 am
I used Mind Crush and Magical Hats on D1.
I used Duel and Heart of the Cards on D2.
I used Shuffle and Horn of the Unicorn on D3.

I haven't used these Celestial Gauntlets, but I know mafia used Superkill last night.

I have no argument against being a godfather beyond the fact town have two confirmed millers. I strongly urge conferring with Roden about this game if you don't trust me.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 10:44:44 am
I can use two abilities, one from each set, each night. I've made this clear constantly so there's no excuse. I've warned constantly that players aren't cleared just because they did one action because I've been doing two every night.

Heart of the Cards copies target1's ability onto target2.

I'll restate what I did N1 and N2:

N1:
Mind Crush Jim, this presumably hit Tric because Jim -> 4mask -> Tric
Magical Hats 4mask and Tric

N2:
Duel Jim, got Celestial Gauntlets from 4mask
Heart of the Cards Roden and 4mask, didn't get any results back but was successful

N3:
Shuffle someone
Horn of the Unicorn someone
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 11:10:21 am
Strange no one has come forth on the Shuffling someone. And you shouldn't have to be cagey about who you protected from being roleblocked. Given they died.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 11:47:49 am
I don't trust NQT so this is a test depending on how they're deciding to play today.

They'll need to argue the mafia is Roden/Tric which I'll fight, or Toony/Tric which I'll fight. They could also include 4mask as a bus option which would be funny.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 12:12:48 pm
I don't trust NQT so this is a test depending on how they're deciding to play today.

They'll need to argue the mafia is Roden/Tric which I'll fight, or Toony/Tric which I'll fight. They could also include 4mask as a bus option which would be funny.
Or they can argue Toony/4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 12:15:47 pm
I don't trust NQT so this is a test depending on how they're deciding to play today.

They'll need to argue the mafia is Roden/Tric which I'll fight, or Toony/Tric which I'll fight. They could also include 4mask as a bus option which would be funny.
Or they can argue Toony/4mask.
Uh, yeah. And then I'll laugh and vote 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on April 06, 2022, 03:18:13 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 5 - 4maskwolf, notquitethere, Roden, ToonyMan, TricMagic,

3 to Hammer. Day ends on April 08, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~52 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 03:30:55 pm
I was Roleblocked as well, I couldn't find Max at all flavor wise. Tric being unable to find Max either matches up with the flavor, so unless you were given a flavor safe claim I think it's safe to say you actually did try to protect him. Which is strange because I thought this was about to be a 1v1 between us.

Toony, how do you know mafia have an ability called Superkill?

NQT, 4mask, night actions and results?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 04:17:40 pm
Toony, how do you know mafia have an ability called Superkill?
Mafia know why already so I'll explain.

Mafia manipulated me to kill Max. I was told the ability they made me use. This mostly lines up with what 4mask claimed on D3, however I believe he's lying and in cahoots with NQT. An important bit to remember is that 4mask didn't specify that he received the name of the mafiakill like I have, which I find very fishy. I would like NQT and 4mask's input on this game.

I also used Shuffle on Max in the hopes of giving them another Validity.

I'll still refrain from who I used Horn of the Unicorn on.

Superkill is a one-shot with priority -1, same priority as the Celestial Gauntlets or Horn of the Unicorn. It's likely they don't have another Superkill.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 04:21:49 pm
@Roden:
Why would mafia block you and not Tric? Your protect is only a one-shot, so if they blocked you it would get refunded and you'd get another chance to protect. That's not very smart.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 06, 2022, 04:22:41 pm
Did you get an Action Failed Roden? A kill that bypasses protects would likely give that message.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 04:41:41 pm
My flavor has me doing more mask shenanigans. After that I slip out of the crowd and right after I blank and next thing I know Max is running from the manor grounds and there's a knife in my hand. Then I drop it, kick it away and run back to the main gathering hoping that no one was watching.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 04:53:43 pm
Yeah, my action was unsuccessful. Like I said, I couldn't even find Max, similar to Tric's flavor for his action attempt.

If Superkill is real, then 4mask lied about being possessed, because you're claiming that it's a 1-shot. NQT should have seen that I didn't target you, so once he gives his results then I should be conftown, at least from your perspective. It could be argued that I'm partnered with you, but NQT should know how unlikely that is as well.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 04:58:05 pm
I can't say the manipulation was one-shot. I just know the ability they made me use was one-shot.

Also now that I'm reading it, I believe my Horn of the Unicorn actually failed due to the manipulation taking up one of my actions. I only succeeded in doing two actions last night. In other words, I didn't do the Superkill as a third action.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 04:59:26 pm
There's no mention of hypnotizing, although that could just be the way 4mask chose to word it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 06, 2022, 06:42:01 pm
Pfp

Sorry lads, my hamstring keeps seizing up and I haven't wasted to sit down at my computer today because of it.

I need to reason through all the team combos again in light of the new claims. As far as I can tell, three people claim to have targeted Max.

I tracked Toony last night (sorry Roden but your willingness to be tracked made it less valuable to do so)

He targeted Max and only Max. And the bad vibes alert came up clear... which is at least consistent with what Max said, but it does mean that if someone did hypnotise Toony then they're a godfather.

Toony, can you confirm that you only targeted Max?

I'll do ability and role names etc when I'm  not stuck on my phone.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 07:01:31 pm
Yep it's true. I only targeted Max with both my successful actions.

What do you mean by they're a godfather?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 07:11:34 pm
NQT

Congrats Toony if it's you. NQT refusing to Track me and giving excuse after excuse not to is just a scum claim at this point.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 07:19:43 pm
Oooo a vote.

Well I'm not mafia so we're only getting a quickhammer here if the mafia are exactly 4mask/Tric which I so highly doubt.

Regardless, I recommend other players don't throw votes around willy-nilly as that will just allow mafia to quickhammer.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 08:19:30 pm
The team can't be 4mask/Tric, because on Night 2 I tried to Vig NQT and he was protected. NQT/Tric is possible, but NQT is always mafia at this point.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 06, 2022, 08:46:06 pm
Pfp

Toony, my power gives a red check if the person I target was targeted by scum. I was pretty clear about this in my original claim. It gives like a bad mental energy about the target. So if mafia did hypno you and you're town, they must be godfather. Make sense?

Roden, how many times do I have to tell you, telegraphing your actions ahead of time is bad town play? If someone you think could be scum spends a day asking you to track them, any half decent player is going to think twice about tracking them. Think it through from where I'm standing.

Also, did you forget about how Tric claimed having an all-protect power? Mafia!Tric lies about using it on N1 and uses it N2. Tric/4mask is absolutely a team
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 09:14:42 pm
NQT I'm not gonna try to convince you that you're mafia lmao

You didn't target me because you needed an out. You'd literally clear both of us if you just tried acting like a townie this game and Track me. You're refusing to do so because you'd implicate yourself and your partner. If you're town then you threw the game and I take no responsibility for losing in that case.

Also you keep admitting that you're targeting the person that gets hypnotized lol. Like idk why you would possibly think you look town right now.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 09:15:39 pm
Also, did you forget about how Tric claimed having an all-protect power? Mafia!Tric lies about using it on N1 and uses it N2. Tric/4mask is absolutely a team
???

Jim died that night? What?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 06, 2022, 09:19:56 pm
Pfp

Roden you must be scum or truly oblivious. Here's your homework:  come back and tell me exactly why Tric could have protected everyone and yet Jim still died.

It's obvious if you'd paid attention.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 09:33:48 pm
Toony claims the Strongman is 1-shot. 4mask/Tric/Toony can't all be scum, and if it was Tric/Toony then they would've hammered by now. If Toony is lying then who's the team?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 09:49:46 pm
Yep, the Superkill was a oneshot and I stole the Celestial Gauntlets so it's probable the mafia have no other kills that go through protections.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 09:52:07 pm
Pfp

Toony, my power gives a red check if the person I target was targeted by scum. I was pretty clear about this in my original claim. It gives like a bad mental energy about the target. So if mafia did hypno you and you're town, they must be godfather. Make sense?
I still don't get it.

Can you also fullclaim everything about your role?

You too Roden.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 06, 2022, 09:57:46 pm
Wow you really haven't been paying attention. Here's a tip. Go read Jim's flip.

I want to properly reason it all through my notes later (as I actually like to reason from evidence not, uh, whatever you're trying to do). But off the top of my head, the possible teams were:

Tric/Toony
Toony/Roden
Tric/4mask

(And before you start crying about my rationale maybe read and take in what I wrote on the matter— or wait till O repeat myself over again in my next non-phone post)

Are any of these teams ruled out by today's claims?

Toony/Tric: one roleblocks Roden's protect, one performs the kill. They don't hypnotise but one of them is capable of it.

Toony/Roden: as above, one blocks Tric's protect, the other performs the kill. Someone is a hypnotist but they didn't bother hypnotising.

Tric/4mask: 4mask hypnotised Toony (4mask's D2 hypno was a fake claim, but he has the power) into superkilling, Tric protects to keep up appearances.

Am I missing anything that rules one of these combos out? And don't say "scum would have hammered" because scum are always saying that when they're uncoordinated or worried about exposing themselves when there are umpteen unknown town powers that could ruin them if they outed themselves.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on April 06, 2022, 10:03:53 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
notquitethere - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365683#msg8365683),
4maskwolf - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 4 - 4maskwolf, notquitethere, ToonyMan, TricMagic,

3 to Hammer. Day ends on April 08, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~45 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 06, 2022, 10:08:25 pm
I've already full claimed.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 10:12:25 pm
Tric/Toony
Toony/Roden
Tric/4mask
Toony/Roden is impossible because of yesterday.

We'll find out about Tric/Toony or Tric/4mask today if there's quickhammer.

You're a fool if you don't think they would.

I've already full claimed.
Right, I'll double-check the Havel posts.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 06, 2022, 10:23:38 pm
Pfp

Knightwing submitted "Mystic". The following is paraphrased obviously:

Aura Reading (auto): if I have this, my track will tell me if my target, their target or anyone that targeted them is mafia (but not who or how many)

Crystal Ball: track

---

Why is Roden/Toony impossible yesterday? They both claim to vig but neither do vig, instead one hypnotises 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 06, 2022, 11:08:50 pm
Because I did an unstoppable superkill last night and we could have easily hammered Tric together the day before. The game would easily be over already.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 07, 2022, 05:56:29 am
It's a point in your favour but its not knock-down. Of course either way, town or scum, you'd want me to take this at face value. But in a game with vigs, redirects, buses, blocks etc, scum are probably going to be more reluctant to out themselves. So, "less likely" but not "impossible".

Toony, Tric, 4mask. If you were in my shoes last night, would you have tracked Roden after he asked for just that?

Also, I wonder... if you copied a hypnotist Toony... would you mimic their hypnotising or the action they had hypnotised their target into performing?

Still need a full claim from 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 07, 2022, 09:27:39 am
It's a point in your favour but its not knock-down. Of course either way, town or scum, you'd want me to take this at face value. But in a game with vigs, redirects, buses, blocks etc, scum are probably going to be more reluctant to out themselves. So, "less likely" but not "impossible".

Toony, Tric, 4mask. If you were in my shoes last night, would you have tracked Roden after he asked for just that?

Also, I wonder... if you copied a hypnotist Toony... would you mimic their hypnotising or the action they had hypnotised their target into performing?

Still need a full claim from 4mask.
Yes, obviously, since that would clear me of the clear and Roden. Which leaves NQT, Toony, and 4mask as the only ones who could do it in that sceanrio. As is I protected Max, but it didn't work. Roden protected Max, but it didn't work. I'm pretty sure you can clear us and clear that up. Instead you "tracked" Toony, mucking things up. I find it interesting 4mask hasn't claimed anything, nor has anyone claimed they received items.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 07, 2022, 10:13:06 am
It's a point in your favour but its not knock-down. Of course either way, town or scum, you'd want me to take this at face value. But in a game with vigs, redirects, buses, blocks etc, scum are probably going to be more reluctant to out themselves. So, "less likely" but not "impossible".

Toony, Tric, 4mask. If you were in my shoes last night, would you have tracked Roden after he asked for just that?

Also, I wonder... if you copied a hypnotist Toony... would you mimic their hypnotising or the action they had hypnotised their target into performing?

Still need a full claim from 4mask.
I've already full claimed lmao, shove off. I literally provided scum on a silver platter but apparently nobody wanted to listen to what I have to say.

N2 I took no action but was forced into performing the mafia kill on Jim Groovester.

N3 I used Psi Armor on its watch mode and saw nobody target me. I also received Skullmine which is a one-shot peek showing up far, far too late to be any good.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 07, 2022, 10:19:55 am
It's a point in your favour but its not knock-down. Of course either way, town or scum, you'd want me to take this at face value. But in a game with vigs, redirects, buses, blocks etc, scum are probably going to be more reluctant to out themselves. So, "less likely" but not "impossible".

Toony, Tric, 4mask. If you were in my shoes last night, would you have tracked Roden after he asked for just that?

Also, I wonder... if you copied a hypnotist Toony... would you mimic their hypnotising or the action they had hypnotised their target into performing?

Still need a full claim from 4mask.
I've already full claimed lmao, shove off. I literally provided scum on a silver platter but apparently nobody wanted to listen to what I have to say.

N2 I took no action but was forced into performing the mafia kill on Jim Groovester.

N3 I used Psi Armor on its watch mode and saw nobody target me. I also received Skullmine which is a one-shot peek showing up far, far too late to be any good.
Not exactly helpful.
N2 should have a claim though, why don't you? Likewise, who did you give an item to last night?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 07, 2022, 10:32:59 am
It's a point in your favour but its not knock-down. Of course either way, town or scum, you'd want me to take this at face value. But in a game with vigs, redirects, buses, blocks etc, scum are probably going to be more reluctant to out themselves. So, "less likely" but not "impossible".

Toony, Tric, 4mask. If you were in my shoes last night, would you have tracked Roden after he asked for just that?

Also, I wonder... if you copied a hypnotist Toony... would you mimic their hypnotising or the action they had hypnotised their target into performing?

Still need a full claim from 4mask.
I've already full claimed lmao, shove off. I literally provided scum on a silver platter but apparently nobody wanted to listen to what I have to say.

N2 I took no action but was forced into performing the mafia kill on Jim Groovester.

N3 I used Psi Armor on its watch mode and saw nobody target me. I also received Skullmine which is a one-shot peek showing up far, far too late to be any good.
Not exactly helpful.
N2 should have a claim though, why don't you? Likewise, who did you give an item to last night?
I didn't give out an item last night, or N2, lmao. I didn't have any items worth sharing with the class.

I did claim for N2, my claim is "I did jack-shit", because my role was reliant on the "right people" dying to get useable night actions and those deaths didn't happen until N2 itself (I could have used overdrive serum but I had already given it to Jim).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 10:40:08 am
Either 4mask didn't give an item, or they gave it to their partner and they're staying quiet.

Now is me voting NQT a good idea? It only loses to:

Roden/Tric - very unlikely
Roden/4mask - unlikely, but more possible

NQT is playing like complete ass and lying if I believe Roden, so I'll probably vote NQT tonight for:

1. Not tracking Roden or Tric
2. Roden tried to kill them N2 and it didn't work for unknown reasons

It's probably just 4mask/NQT, you know, the team everybody suspected at the start of D2 except freaking Jim defending 4mask because he gave him a single extra vote. NQT also ties themselves to 4mask because by claiming malicious forces were involved with them killing Jim. I still have no idea what NQT means by there being a godfather involved with me killing Max last night and wish he would explain better. If there was a godfather involved, wouldn't there NOT be malicious forces?

PPE:
I didn't give out an item last night, or N2, lmao. I didn't have any items worth sharing with the class.
Okay.

I did claim for N2, my claim is "I did jack-shit", because my role was reliant on the "right people" dying to get useable night actions and those deaths didn't happen until N2 itself (I could have used overdrive serum but I had already given it to Jim).
Don't you mean you killed Jim which would have overwritten any action you tried to do instead anyway, lmao?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 10:44:08 am
I'm willing to believe mafia can make other players kill for them on more than one night, but the way you just claimed your N2 does not match what happened with me on N3.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 07, 2022, 11:11:51 am
Either 4mask didn't give an item, or they gave it to their partner and they're staying quiet.

Now is me voting NQT a good idea? It only loses to:

Roden/Tric - very unlikely
Roden/4mask - unlikely, but more possible

NQT is playing like complete ass and lying if I believe Roden, so I'll probably vote NQT tonight for:

1. Not tracking Roden or Tric
2. Roden tried to kill them N2 and it didn't work for unknown reasons

It's probably just 4mask/NQT, you know, the team everybody suspected at the start of D2 except freaking Jim defending 4mask because he gave him a single extra vote. NQT also ties themselves to 4mask because by claiming malicious forces were involved with them killing Jim. I still have no idea what NQT means by there being a godfather involved with me killing Max last night and wish he would explain better. If there was a godfather involved, wouldn't there NOT be malicious forces?

PPE:
I didn't give out an item last night, or N2, lmao. I didn't have any items worth sharing with the class.
Okay.

I did claim for N2, my claim is "I did jack-shit", because my role was reliant on the "right people" dying to get useable night actions and those deaths didn't happen until N2 itself (I could have used overdrive serum but I had already given it to Jim).
Don't you mean you killed Jim which would have overwritten any action you tried to do instead anyway, lmao?
I wouldn't know on the last part, that's your claim. I didn't attempt to do anything so I just woke up from what was flavored like hypnosis after having performed the kill on Jim. I was just told I performed the mafiakill, no frills attached.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 07, 2022, 11:12:39 am
NGL this whole superkill thing feels very much like an excuse for using the celestial gauntlets.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 11:34:56 am
NGL this whole superkill thing feels very much like an excuse for using the celestial gauntlets.
Vote me then, I'm convinced it'll be a vote including town&mafia (the same way Roden voting NQT is clearly town&mafia) and we can remove some more possibilities.

This would include:

Roden/Tric
Roden/NQT

As not possible if we give them the opportunity to quickhammer and they don't do it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 07, 2022, 12:08:52 pm
NGL this whole superkill thing feels very much like an excuse for using the celestial gauntlets.
Vote me then, I'm convinced it'll be a vote including town&mafia (the same way Roden voting NQT is clearly town&mafia) and we can remove some more possibilities.

This would include:

Roden/Tric
Roden/NQT

As not possible if we give them the opportunity to quickhammer and they don't do it.
I'm not so confident that you're a wolf that I'm willing to risk a quickhammer. It's a bad look, certainly, but I wouldn't call you confirmed scum, especially since I know from experience the wolves can force other people to perform kills for them. If you're confident I'm a wolf then why don't you vote me for the same effect?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 12:49:27 pm
Because I don't have to? I'm voting NQT later today.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 07, 2022, 01:01:29 pm
Because I don't have to? I'm voting NQT later today.
...
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 01:19:31 pm
What's your problem?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 01:35:52 pm
You know why you're alive every lylo right Tric?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 07, 2022, 01:54:55 pm
Just that you said you'd vote later today two days ago.  And we saw what happened there.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 02:03:39 pm
That was minutes before the deadline, I'll be voting about 24 hours before today's deadline.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 07, 2022, 02:11:34 pm
NQT, question. Are you voting 4mask today, and if so why?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 07, 2022, 03:01:04 pm
On hey, I didn't throw last night. No quick hammers after everyone has had time to post is always a good sign.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 07, 2022, 03:04:19 pm
Toony, if you were town why would you care if I tracked you?? Why wouldn't I track someone I wanted to launch yesterday?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 03:09:04 pm
Toony, if you were town why would you care if I tracked you?? Why wouldn't I track someone I wanted to launch yesterday?
Perfect, this will confirm if mafia are Roden/4mask or Roden/Tric.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 03:11:17 pm
I would have to be exactly a godfather to be mafia, NQT.

Confirmed town Jack followed confirmed town Max to me Night 1 and Max got a town result.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 07, 2022, 03:12:20 pm
Not to mention, you literally confirmed the track as I knew your target. Which is useful info. Whereas, if I tracked Roden what would I have learned? Fuck all, because he wanted to be tracked.

And yes, I am assuming x1 Godfather in this game. The obvious design choice it there are 2-3 millers.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 03:20:15 pm
Think about it this way NQT:

1. I'm probably not mafia with Roden. We had ample time to hammer Tric for game while you and 4mask were voting Tric on D3. I'm not going to say 100% because stuff at night could happen, but I would have gone for it as mafia most likely.
2. I'm 100% not mafia with 4mask or Tric, because we could have hammered you NQT for game today on D4. The way lylo works is different than mylo, as soon as mafia equal the town they win. There's no risk involved and it's a guaranteed win.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 03:21:24 pm
By voting me, you have to argue the mafia are me and Roden. I could have just auto-win'd with 4mask or Tric earlier today while we were both on. If you don't believe I'm a godfather and mafia with Roden then you're throwing the game.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 07, 2022, 03:24:17 pm
... NQT, I note that was the exact wrong thing to say if you didn't want to be voted.

4maskwolf. At this point there isn't any reason not to remove the middle option. Not that it's likely to matter tomorrow, Roden and I are literally the only targets tonight. If Toony/NQT dies then the other is mafia.(or if the one that dies is mafia, game over.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 03:27:51 pm
And now Tric is letting me and Roden quickhammer 4mask for game if we were mafia together. Which isn't going to happen because I'm town. Thus, this will 100% confirm I'm not mafia.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on April 07, 2022, 03:38:46 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365935#msg8365935),
notquitethere - 1 - Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365683#msg8365683),
ToonyMan - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365920#msg8365920),
Roden - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - 4maskwolf, ToonyMan,

3 to Hammer. Day ends on April 08, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~28 hours remaining).
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 03:42:25 pm
Hmmm, so yeah I don't see Tric and Roden pouncing on me for game. Which means mafia are 4mask/NQT.

I would prefer voting 4mask off first because 4mask will get another ability from NQT dying, which could be relevant in the night phase. Voting 4mask today and NQT tomorrow avoids that being an issue.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 07, 2022, 03:58:21 pm
NQT is pretty much confirmed mafia at this point, but I don't think we've ruled out any partner combinations with him. I'd prefer to have a guaranteed red flip today, though yeah I'm pretty sure it is just 4mask.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 07, 2022, 04:08:43 pm
The reason I say that is because either Tric or Toony could have protected NQT on Night 2 if either of you predicted I would Vig him. Tric with his Doc protect, or Toony by copying the Doc and protecting NQT.

...Wait, no, Tric couldn't have faked the Doc. Toony claimed to copy my Vig shot and target 4mask, but 4mask didn't die, so either both are telling the truth or at least Tric is. 4mask dies if Tric is mafia and lied about who he targeted.

Ok so yeah, Tric is conftown.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 07, 2022, 04:15:52 pm
Tric is not conftown. You keep ignoring his protect all ability claim. Also Roden, did you figure out why Jim wouldn't be protected? Or have you given up?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 07, 2022, 04:30:18 pm
Tric is not conftown. You keep ignoring his protect all ability claim. Also Roden, did you figure out why Jim wouldn't be protected? Or have you given up?
You keep inflating my all-protect claim. Give it up NQT.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 07:51:45 pm
NQT is pretty much confirmed mafia at this point, but I don't think we've ruled out any partner combinations with him. I'd prefer to have a guaranteed red flip today, though yeah I'm pretty sure it is just 4mask.
I would prefer to vote 4mask, but fine.

I know for a fact you and Tric are town now so it should work out. I don't think 4mask can do anything to win from this position even with whatever they get off NQT.

NQT
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 07, 2022, 08:42:38 pm
Unvote

Just had a terrifying thought. Is it possible the possession kill isn't a factional ability? And if so, could 4mask end up getting a free action possession kill?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 07, 2022, 08:49:41 pm
I think your idea to vote 4mask first is probably the better play Toony. I wanted to do NQT first in case you two were partners after all, but you contradicted 4mask earlier (you were told the flavor and ability of what you were forced to do, 4mask apparently didn't), but he didn't contest it. It kinda looks like he's given up tbh.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 09:05:49 pm
Yeah, sure.

4maskwolf

FYI, Tric is already voting 4mask so your vote will be hammer.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 07, 2022, 09:10:33 pm
I guess just any last words from 4mask and NQT before I hammer.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 07, 2022, 09:21:57 pm
I don't know about 4mask and NQT, but I have last words.

I'm sorry for switching from 4mask to Jack at the last minute on D2. I could play the blame game and say Jim was affecting my judgement of 4mask, but in the end I voted a player I had a strong positive feeling of over the player I had a very bad feeling of. It just wasn't a smart move and it made this game harder than it needed to be. Whether town wins or loses I think I tried my best and I think the rest of town can say the same. I'll probably have more to say about the mafia once the game is over.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Mamobo on April 07, 2022, 10:46:45 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365935#msg8365935), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366004#msg8366004),
ToonyMan - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365920#msg8365920),
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 2 - 4maskwolf, Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365999#msg8365999),

3 to Hammer. Day ends on April 08, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (21 hours and 13 minutes remaining.)
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 08, 2022, 04:00:42 am
Roden, are you acting tonight? i.e. is it worth me tracking you or no??
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 08, 2022, 07:40:54 am
Yeah, go ahead.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 08, 2022, 08:38:09 am
A quick reminder before day ends Roden, can I affect you tonight or not?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 08, 2022, 02:15:18 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: ToonyMan on April 08, 2022, 03:29:31 pm
I'm pretty much spent on my actions so I'll sit tight and look pretty.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 08, 2022, 04:31:30 pm
4mask

That's enough time I guess. Don't want to wait out the timer and let 4mask/NQT tie up the vote at the last second.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4: Maximum Sin [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 08, 2022, 05:11:03 pm
The group lands on 4maskwolf, and one of the servants, looking hastily at the collapsed man, speaks up.

"I believe the detective would like for you to have your last words, before the authorities arrive. Is there anything you'd like to reveal that may allow them to judge you less harshly?"


Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 3 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365935#msg8365935), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366004#msg8366004), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366143#msg8366143),
ToonyMan - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365920#msg8365920),
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 1 - 4maskwolf,

3 to Hammer. Day ends on April 08, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (2 hours and 52 minutes remaining.)

4maskwolf has been chosen for elimination.


The group turns towards 4maskwolf, and waits for him to speak.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 4 Execution: 4maskwolf's Crimes [5 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 09, 2022, 12:32:58 am
4maskwolf remains silent, holding his hands out with pursed lips. Several black-suited personnel show up, handcuff him, and take him away, while one of the servants reads from a prepared letter.

"You've done well, but there is still one more among you. Unfortunately, I will be unable to continue overseeing your game, and as such, I will have my assistant take over from here." The servant curtsies, and then continues reading. However, before she can continue, several of the suits come running into the room, asking where 4maskwolf could be. The group looks to see 4maskwolf searching through the pockets of the checkered hat man, pulling out a small pocketwatch, and then disappearing entirely.

Honestly, everyone seems stunned, but the suits rush you out of the room while they begin to investigate.


Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 3 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365935#msg8365935), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366004#msg8366004), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366143#msg8366143),
ToonyMan - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8365920#msg8365920),
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 1 - 4maskwolf,

3 to Hammer. Day ends on April 08, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (2 hours and 52 minutes remaining.)

4maskwolf has been executed.

4maskwolf was The X-Com Project (mafia).


Quote
Role: The X-Com Project
Alignment: Mafia
Wincon: You win when your team equals or outnumbers the remaining players and there are no ways to stop you.

{PT} (Auto) Top Secret: Inspections against you show as Town. Your other Abilities are not revealed on death.

It is now Night.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Night 4: Codename: Masked Wolf [4 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 10, 2022, 07:47:38 pm
You return to the room and see that the detective and ToonyMan are not there with you. The servant who spoke as representative opens and unfolds a letter.

“There is likely to be only three of you remaining, but one among you is the other conspirator of the murder. If you can find them, you will be rewarded, and if not, then a murder will go unpunished.”

“I have no hints, for this is our game. And you have all been roped in by me.”

She continues on, but there’s no point. The letter means nothing if the murderer isn’t found, and this is likely your last chance to do so.


ToonyMan has died.

ToonyMan was Yami Yugi (town).


Vote Count
------------------------
notquitethere - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 3 - notquitethere, Roden, TricMagic,

2 to Hammer. Day ends on April 13, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~72 hours remaining).


It is now Day.

Quote
Role: Yami Yugi
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead and at least one Town member is alive.

{PN} (Auto) Millennium Transformation: Once per Night, you may transform into Yugi Moto. If you do, you may use two Actions, as long as both Actions do not belong to Yami Yugi or Yugi Moto. (You may use an Ability from the role you transformed from.)
{P10} (1-Shot, Night) Mind Crush [target]: Remove all Auto Abilities from your target.
{P10} (1-Shot, Night) Duel [target]: You duel the target and take a random non-Mafiakill Action as a prize. If you name a non-Mafiakill Ability that the target owns, you gain that instead.
{P10} (1-Shot, Night) Shuffle [target/self]: Reshuffle your target’s deck. This restores one (1) use of a random 1-Shot the target owns. If you name an Ability the target has, you restore that one instead.

Quote
Role: Yugi Moto
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead and at least one Town member is alive.

{PN} (Auto) Millennium Transformation: Once per Night, you may transform into Yami Yugi. If you do, you may use two Actions, as long as both Actions do not belong to Yami Yugi or Yugi Moto. (You may use an Ability from the role you transformed from.)
{P0} (1-Shot, Night) Heart of the Cards [target1/self] [target2/self]: You copy target1’s Action and use it on target2. You cannot Choose the same targets.
{P-1} (1-Shot, Night) Horn Of The Unicorn [target/self]: The target is unaffected by roleblocks.
{P2} (1-Shot, Night) Magical Hats [target1/self] [target2]: You swap target1 and target2. Actions that target target1 target target2 instead and vice versa.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 10, 2022, 08:19:53 pm
I was hypnotised into killing Toony.

This overwrote my track attempt.

This was not a superkill.

Tric, why was the kill not protected?

Roden, what did you do last night?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 10, 2022, 08:42:33 pm
Nothing lol. Tric probably targeted me.

Tric are you paranoid about me at all, or can we end this?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 11, 2022, 09:07:55 am
I was hypnotised into killing Toony.

This overwrote my track attempt.

This was not a superkill.

Tric, why was the kill not protected?

Roden, what did you do last night?
Incorrect, I was hypnotized into killing Toony. And I protected Roden, or tried to until I got hypno'd. It's a fancy trick, but that only leaves you as the last suspect NQT.

Nothing lol. Tric probably targeted me.

Tric are you paranoid about me at all, or can we end this?
Nope. Townread you for a while. I was paranoid about Toony, but he's dead now.

NQT, if you beleived me to be the culprit, you really should have just voted me in that post.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 11, 2022, 10:44:04 am
Pfp


It's LYLO. I'm not voting you until I'm certain. Unvote a moment before Roden hammers. If you're town, we've lost the game otherwise.

If Roden is scum, then he has a dual hypnotism. Like a free mimic item from 4mask. Mimicking and hypnotism seem to be the big themes of this game. I think it could still be Roden.

Think through the possibilities a moment here.

--

Roden, if you are town, don't hammer and lose us the game. Think through Tric's claim here.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 11, 2022, 01:05:43 pm
Pfp


It's LYLO. I'm not voting you until I'm certain. Unvote a moment before Roden hammers. If you're town, we've lost the game otherwise.

If Roden is scum, then he has a dual hypnotism. Like a free mimic item from 4mask. Mimicking and hypnotism seem to be the big themes of this game. I think it could still be Roden.

Think through the possibilities a moment here.

--

Roden, if you are town, don't hammer and lose us the game. Think through Tric's claim here.
The only possibility is a double action hypnosis against the same target. Also, my claim has been claimed long ago. You are the one who have been trying to paint it as something it isn't.  You've consistently been suspicious since you replaced. And perhaps most importantly, I've already town-read Roden, while you kept your role hidden. That happened all the way back on day 2 when he claimed before I cleared up what happened that night. Once you eleminate the impossible, whatever remains must be the truth. And there are only two town and 1 scum left. I know I'm town, and I read Roden as town. That's really all there is to it, and good on Roden if he is mafia. Kept me fooled, so GG then.

As is, you know your role, your alignment, and our roles. Think it through, who here is town and who here is scum? Oh, right. The problem is you've just thrown shade all game, so you don't have any true town-reads to rely upon here. Time's up, so make your own decision.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: notquitethere on April 11, 2022, 01:11:20 pm
So be it.

4mask/TricMagic was the most logical 4mask team. I'm staking the game on that.

Also, double hypnosis is least likely hypothesis. Simplest explanation is you are the hypnotist Tric.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 11, 2022, 01:50:26 pm
Which directly interferes with my own claim, and the fact I not only died but came back to life, which no one else did.
Likewise, I did protect 4mask from a vig shot. So I would need to be a literal quack doctor with actual doctor skills.

I do wonder if you can eliminate the chance that my claimed is in fact true in every sense. (sort answer, you can't. Nothing makes perfect sense without drumming up a huge conspiracy theory of me setting up protection for the mafia team night one.)

Likewise.. Toon World.
Thank you Tric.

So both Roden and Tric protected Max, as expected.

Now, I wonder which players I targeted?

In any case, I can confirm that mafia have a oneshot called Superkill that bypasses redirections and protections. I wonder how I could possibly know this. They appear to have unfortunately held onto it until last night.

This is good info though, as it means mafia were given a way to deal with protections, in other words MY ROLE MY ROLE MY ROLE Tric is almost certainly town from that fact alone. It might actually come down to him for lylo which is really annoying because he'll need to believe I'm not a godfather in a game with already two miller, but anyway.

I feel like Roden is genuine here, or at the very least not mafia with NQT.

Of note, when I was hypnotized, something was on my action, the mafiakill description. So we can take it that this bolded part is truth. Also, you could have pointed that out before me if you were actually hypnotized.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 11, 2022, 01:57:31 pm
Your best bet for survival was to kill me or Roden. Sadly you couldn't do either since you'd have to hypno Roden or I to do the killing. If you killed me, you have to convince Roden that you're town and Toony is scum, while stating who they targeted. You could guess that, but it's a valid strat.

Make me kill Roden, and your tracking action wouldn't matter any. You could have had a shot at convinicng me Toony is the scum, but 4mask got lycnhed, so you would need a very well put together argument and a Toony that wouldn't break it apart. So at the end of the day, you'd likely get lynched, simply cause I find you more suspicious.(I'd likely spend time putting together a full action list in this scenario.)
By forcing one of us to kill Toony, you have to get the other to think the one you hypnotized is scum. So you pick me, as surely Tric is the easiest target right? Wrong. That is one of the key tells I look out for, people picking on me and taking advantage of what I leave open. I may be an open book at times, but sadly it's in another language.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: Roden on April 11, 2022, 02:50:34 pm
NQT

Tric if you clowned me then you deserve the win.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: TricMagic on April 11, 2022, 03:15:00 pm
NQT

Tric if you clowned me then you deserve the win.
I hope to manage that someday. Today is not that day.
1 last wowee for your fallen partner NQT?
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Day 5: Toon World [3 / 9 Alive]
Post by: webadict on April 11, 2022, 05:35:06 pm
"Two against one," TricMagic shrugs, pulling on a brightly colored pink unicorn mask. "I'm afraid that rules are rules, and this game is done. Though, it was done a while ago. I'm just that good."

"Nobody wants to hear it," Roden rebuts. "It's not a fucking game, this was a murder that needed to be solved, ya fuckin' dunce!" A vein in Roden's neck bulges as he puts his hands in his pockets. "You're lucky I don't kill ya."

"I see," notquitethere says with a resigned sigh. "I, for one, haven't seen the body yet. Have either of you? How can there even be a murder if there is no victim?" notquitethere points towards his head in an inquisitive manner and then towards the servant.

The two shared a surprised look and turned towards the servant representative. "Yeah, he's fucking right, who was even murdered?"

"It w--" And then notquitethere ran out of the side room.


Vote Count
------------------------
notquitethere - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366625#msg8366625), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366700#msg8366700),
TricMagic - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8366672#msg8366672),
Roden - 0 -
No One - 0 -

Not Voting - 0 -

2 to Hammer. Day ends on April 13, 2022 at 20:00 CDT


notquitethere runs out into the dance hall followed by Roden, several guards, and then, at a leisurely stroll, TricMagic. Roden pulls out a small hammer from his pocket, throwing it at notquitethere but missing and hitting an elderly woman, who falls to the floor gracelessly. notquitethere pulls something, a small coin on a string, from his coat pocket and begins to mesmerize anyone around him. Bystanders begin to launch themselves at Roden, and Roden, in turn, launches them at a nearly identical pace, leaving a split sea of unconscious bodies in a straight path to the gardens.

notquitethere dives over the edge of the balcony, and as Roden dives after him, he realizes his mistake, watching notquitethere hang from the edge as he plummets 25 feet onto paved stone, breaking his leg. One of the guards, his eyes glazed and listless, helps notquitethere up, dusting him off before a pool cue slams against the back of notquitethere's head, shattering into several pieces. As notquitethere falls to the ground, the pink unicorn says, "Scum slips are tragic."


notquitethere has been executed.

notquitethere was the Mind Master (mafia).


Game over. Town (EuchreJack, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin, Roden, TricMagic, ToonyMan, and Vector) wins!

Quote
Role: Mind Master
Alignment: Mafia
Wincon: You win when your team equals or outnumbers the remaining players and there are no ways to stop you.

{PT} (Auto) Multiple Methods: While you own this Ability, you may also have your Mastermind and Mental Manipulation target(s) perform the following abilities:
Quote
{P7} (1-Shot, Night, Mafiakill) Mafiakill [target]: You kill the target.
{P7} (1-Shot, Night, Mafiakill) Poison [target]: You poison the target. The target dies at the end of the following Day.
{P-1} (1-Shot, Night, Mafiakill) Superkill [target]: You kill the target, going through protection and redirection.
{P10} (1-Shot, Night) Track [target]: You track your target, seeing who they target.
{P7} (1-Shot, Night) Anti-Revive [target]: If the target would revive from a kill, they are killed.
{P3} (Night) Mastermind [target/self]: Your target is mind controlled for the Night. Instead of performing their Action, you pick another Action and target(s) for them to perform from either their own Actions or your Multiple Methods. If this is not an action that they own, they learn what action they used. You cannot use this Action on the same Player twice in a row.
{P0} (1-Shot, Night) Mental Manipulation [target x(1-3)]: Your targets each perform an additional non-kill Action from any other living Player. Any targets or Choices are your choice instead.
{P7} (1-Shot, Night) Meticulous Mess: You die and revive.

Quote
Role: Havel the Rock
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead and at least one Town member is alive.

{PT} (Auto) Boss Drops: You’re kind of a bad guy. Inspects against you return as Mafia. When you die, you give your Item Abilities to your killer or the last person to vote for you. Once per Night, as a free Action, you may give away an Item Action if you haven’t used it.
{P7} (Item, 1-Shot, Night) Dragon’s Tooth Hammer [target]: You slam the target into the dust, killing the target in one hit.
{P1} (Item, 1-Shot, Night) Havel’s Greatshield [target/self]: You shield the target, causing all Actions targeting your target to fail. You may self-target this Action.
{P5} (Item, 1-Shot, Night) Havel’s Ring [target]: Your ring allows for additional protection around the target. The target is protected from Kill Actions during this Night Phase.

Quote
Role: Pinkie Pie Mafia Party!
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead and at least one Town member is alive.

{PT} (Auto) Friendship Is Magic: During the first Day, Choose a Player to become your Friend. While your Friend is alive, kill Actions cause you to revive on death. Your Friend will always inspect as Town.
{P5} (Night) The Best Medicine [target]: You protect the target from kills and poisons during the Night. Neither you nor the target are informed of a successful protection.
{P-1} (1-Shot, Night) Sacrifice: You die. All other Players cannot be killed or poisoned during this Phase. If your Friend is alive, you lose Friendship Is Magic and revive instead.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: webadict on April 11, 2022, 05:40:08 pm
https://discord.gg/EubFxT8M
Mafiachat.
https://discord.gg/pXUfn58t
Deadchat.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MegdSsfe5oVrzCx8bleb0_NeYJD3HrBr2zm8VVRGAvc/edit?usp=sharing
Document containing lots of random things.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: notquitethere on April 11, 2022, 05:44:06 pm
It's hard to know exactly when we dropped the ball; more like we were like a knife juggler who keeps dropping stilettos in his own arteries.

--

I would describe my strategy as "scattered", or perhaps, "non-existent". I should have just picked a few allies to buddy instead of being too town-NQT and attacking literally everyone.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: ToonyMan on April 11, 2022, 05:50:55 pm
If you made Roden look bad instead of Tric on D3 that might have worked better since I didn't fully trust Roden yet.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: notquitethere on April 11, 2022, 06:05:38 pm
If you made Roden look bad instead of Tric on D3 that might have worked better since I didn't fully trust Roden yet.
Ironically, if I'd have done some basic sentiment analysis and mapped out the animosities like I normally would have done as town, that could have helped me realise this!
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 11, 2022, 06:11:23 pm
Good game.



I don't know why you kill me on Night 2.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: notquitethere on April 11, 2022, 06:31:57 pm
4mask made the call but I take responsibility for my late night paranoid suggestion:

Quote
notquitethere — 31/03/2022
That should redirect any protects on Toony or Max to you as well. I suggest you activate refraction shield and shoot Tric (he's not protected and it stops him blabbing about being manipulated).

notquitethere — 01/04/2022
Some additional thoughts, 4mask:

I don't see the value in giving the shield away as it's pro-scum so you should use it.

You might want to shoot Jim instead of Tric as you gave him a potential double vote and that might screw us over. But he currently trusts you because of it... so idk
Quote
VoidStaresBack — 01/04/2022
Bluh bluh bluh
Yeah I'm not giving away any of my items currently they out me as scum
Jim vs. Tric...
We can shoot Jim, sure

This was the biggest mistake of the game.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 11, 2022, 06:58:06 pm
I don't think I've ever seen mafia last this long after being correctly named on day 1. Or was it only day 2? Either way.

Man, this one was a mess all around, huh? ToonyMan, I've gotta be honest with you, you screwed up repeatedly due to failure to trust your instincts. You had so many opportunities to vote out 4mask, whom you openly suspected! I have noticed that you are much better as mafia than as town, which, incidentally, is why I started by voting you on the first day.

Webadict, to what extent were you thinking about our individual playstyles when you set up the roles? I feel like some of them were designed to work against the player - mine and Tric's, certainly - and I wonder if that was an intentional challenge.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: webadict on April 11, 2022, 09:18:33 pm
Webadict, to what extent were you thinking about our individual playstyles when you set up the roles? I feel like some of them were designed to work against the player - mine and Tric's, certainly - and I wonder if that was an intentional challenge.
TricMagic's was certainly set up to match TricMagic's style in a bit of an anti-/synergistic way. In a way, it plays like he does, but there were multiple workarounds for his role, and his playstyle was used against him in terms of balance. His role is stupidly broken, but it's also fragile.

Your role was pretty strong, but the setup was balanced around it. If anything, I made this game as a way to make Miller claims less powerful. Currently, every Miller claim is almost always true, and this was meant to allow for Knightwing64 to claim Miller for free, as well as make you painfully aware that there will be consequences for claiming things.

Mostly, I want you to get used to insane setups so that claims can be less provable. I will start telling the Mafia setup information that gives them extra claim power so that the Town cannot reverse engineer the setup. I will likely add in Auto abilities that do (seemingly) nothing, or give the Mafia much more power to fakeclaim, and also punishing the "claim immediately" strat. ToonyMan actually did well, claiming only what he needed to.

I think this game had the potential to royally destroy Town, but it felt fairly balanced overall, with maybe a bit too little power in a few Players' roles. I think if you have any comments, concerns, or criticism about your role or the game, feel free to post them. I think the thing that I enjoyed the most was NO DAY ABILITIES. Best decision ever, would do again.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 11, 2022, 09:32:12 pm
TricMagic's was certainly set up to match TricMagic's style in a bit of an anti-/synergistic way. In a way, it plays like he does, but there were multiple workarounds for his role, and his playstyle was used against him in terms of balance. His role is stupidly broken, but it's also fragile.
I felt like mine had the same effect, in that, since I had to wait and queue up free actions to use it to its full extent, and the mafia had access to a protection-piercing kill, it punishes my compulsive honesty just like Tric's punishes his immediate claiming and tendency to blow a powerful one-shot right off the bat. (Mine also had the opportunity to blow a powerful one-shot right off the bat, I guess, but I'm more the "potion hoarder" type so that worked with my instincts instead of against them.) I know you've noticed the compulsive honesty thing since you've mentioned it before. And also, it's obvious.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: Roden on April 11, 2022, 09:38:40 pm
GG

Looking at what mafia had, that definitely explains why I felt like town had too much power. Mafia pretty much hard countered what town had without it feeling unfair, IMO. My biggest weakness this game was probably being so paranoid of Toony up until literally moments before his death, second weakness being that I was too unsure of my reads. I wish I pushed harder for my plan Day 2 since that would've ended it there, but I kept thinking "oh god what if I'm just tunneling again".

Triple Millers was hilarious btw. Pretty funny that I got it after I tunneled a Miller in a previous game lol.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: webadict on April 11, 2022, 11:08:01 pm
TricMagic's was certainly set up to match TricMagic's style in a bit of an anti-/synergistic way. In a way, it plays like he does, but there were multiple workarounds for his role, and his playstyle was used against him in terms of balance. His role is stupidly broken, but it's also fragile.
I felt like mine had the same effect, in that, since I had to wait and queue up free actions to use it to its full extent, and the mafia had access to a protection-piercing kill, it punishes my compulsive honesty just like Tric's punishes his immediate claiming and tendency to blow a powerful one-shot right off the bat. (Mine also had the opportunity to blow a powerful one-shot right off the bat, I guess, but I'm more the "potion hoarder" type so that worked with my instincts instead of against them.) I know you've noticed the compulsive honesty thing since you've mentioned it before. And also, it's obvious.
Funnily, I didn't realize the part where you could essentially endlessly add people to your inspect, but that seems fair, given the downside. My initial thought was that you would use the ability as a double hitter, by making a rolename inspection on Day 1 and then a Day 2 double guaranteed inspect (Since you could also use one as a free action and one as a regular action). I kinda like how yours was setup, because it had a lot risk and reward built into it. I think the build up style of inspection is good, and also the "100% guaranteed" inspection feels good, and when I saw that you could massively break the game, that ALSO felt good from a player perspective because with enough setup, the payoff would be huge.

Overall, I think your role did exactly what it needed to, and all parts of it felt kinda fun, even if the mass inspection takes a bit to build up to it. It created a lot of guessing on who would be important to inspect versus who the Mafia might kill versus when the time to trigger for best effect, which is all social deduction and potentially manipulation, so it was a great role from my perspective.

Personally, I'd rate your role 9/10, and the only reason it's not 10/10 is because I don't like inspection roles, but there's too much to like about it.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: TricMagic on April 12, 2022, 09:07:39 am
Quote from: Night 1
4maskwolf Perform Mafiakill on Toonyman
... Fun, guess I know who I protected. That day 2 gave a lot of info out of that. GG all.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: ToonyMan on April 12, 2022, 10:09:31 am
Think about it this way:

You protected me from 4mask on N1 and 4mask from me on N2.

Nice and balanced.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: TricMagic on April 12, 2022, 11:41:23 am
Think about it this way:

You protected me from 4mask on N1 and 4mask from me on N2.

Nice and balanced.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DCvDXXX9etc/hqdefault.jpg)
As all things should be.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: Vector on April 12, 2022, 03:02:42 pm
It's hard to know exactly when we dropped the ball; more like we were like a knife juggler who keeps dropping stilettos in his own arteries.

lol


Feeling very good about this game for one where I had a D1 launch. Proud of myself for getting this and that done despite the very low postcount.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 12, 2022, 03:32:33 pm
Y'know, for as much as the mech went against us and I got distracted by things in real life, I will 100% take pushing EuchreJack over on D2 as a win lmao.

Sorry Jack.
Title: Re: Webadict's Simple BYOR 2 - Game Over: Town Win
Post by: EuchreJack on April 12, 2022, 06:10:22 pm
It's cool. Once I died and learned the scum team actually was 4mask and NQT, I was rooting for a Mafia win.

I think Knightwing64's substitution was a massive disadvantage for the scum team, even though NQT did a good job subbing in.
That change of direction makes it hard to remain undetected.

Edit: Besides, I still think my role, and how I played it, made me a good mislynch. Frankly, Mafia should have pushed me later if possible, as I think my mislynch on D2 was helpful to town versus my survival to a more critical day.

As for how I should have played, I probably should have kept quiet at least about the Miller and just tried to play in such a townie way that I never got inspected.