Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF Adventure Mode Discussion => Topic started by: joostheger on April 04, 2022, 02:29:47 am

Title: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: joostheger on April 04, 2022, 02:29:47 am
Hello brave adventurers!

Here's a challenge for you.
In the other topic there's some debate wheter you can or cannot become a king.
so my question to your all, is : can you prove that this is possible?

And with king, I mean a king of a dwarven civ in a unmodded game. Beside that, anything goes.
It would be interesing, if you can become leader of another civ, like humans or elves.
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: Bumber on April 04, 2022, 02:49:53 am
You could try starting a fort with a dying civ, then create an adventurer from that site. Have a way to arrange unfortunate accidents so you can narrow down the field of candidates to just you and one other dwarf (in case that's a requirement.) That gives you a 50/50 shot, and if that fails you can still arrange an accident for them and see if you're allowed to be the king of a civ of 1. (Or you could save-scum.)
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: Quantum Drop on April 04, 2022, 04:15:47 am
Museum III's first player-controlled adventurer, Bralbaard Hammerfishes, eventually became the King of his original civilization (dwarven; no clue about other civs) midway through the game. However, it seemed to be down to RNG as opposed to any concerted effort on his part; furthermore, he was deposed after some time (possibly due to being a necromancer/intelligent undead?). Game raws are unmodded beyond some raw edits to fix bugs.

So it seems that it's certainly possible to become the king/queen, but the topic definitely requires more research.
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: Rumrusher on April 05, 2022, 02:46:34 am
wait there's a debate on whether you can or can't be a king?

well vanilla wise it's possible to talk an monarch out of position of power if you find them in adventure mode then desync the discussion so that you move them into a submenu where you narrow down the dialog options where they might pick the option that steps down from being a monarch but uhh yeah weird that there's an debate on that subject.
oh wait the other topic's debate was made in 2020... I think around 2021 I found out about the noble shuffling by dialog mechanic and posted my findings on the forums.
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: joostheger on April 05, 2022, 05:38:42 am
I remember now. It was in the other thread. I should review your method first
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: joostheger on April 05, 2022, 02:26:30 pm
Quote from: Rumrusher on April 05, 2022, 02:46:34 am
wait there's a debate on whether you can or can't be a king?

well vanilla wise it's possible to talk an monarch out of position of power if you find them in adventure mode then desync the discussion so that you move them into a submenu where you narrow down the dialog options where they might pick the option that steps down from being a monarch but uhh yeah weird that there's an debate on that subject.
oh wait the other topic's debate was made in 2020... I think around 2021 I found out about the noble shuffling by dialog mechanic and posted my findings on the forums.
I dont get this to work...
What option is to ask for their position? ask to yield?
also, i dont know how to shuffle the dialog.
can you help my with easier instructions?
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: joostheger on April 05, 2022, 02:49:31 pm
Got it! woohoo!
I wrestled with the queen, asked her to yield, and she offered me her position, which i accepted!
thats awsome!

Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: dikbutdagrate on April 05, 2022, 03:51:34 pm
Quote from: joostheger on April 04, 2022, 02:29:47 am
Hello brave adventurers!

Here's a challenge for you.
In the other topic there's some debate wheter you can or cannot become a king.
so my question to your all, is : can you prove that this is possible?

And with king, I mean a king of a dwarven civ in a unmodded game. Beside that, anything goes.
It would be interesting, if you can become leader of another civ, like humans or elves.

Yes. Multiple times in fact. Also, once you're king, you can offer the position of king to other people. I tried offering the position to the demon overlord of a goblin civ, but they said they were busy. A gremlin I spoke to however, was interested in the position.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've had two adventurers on two different world files become the head of a goblin civ. I don't have screenshots of the first time, which was both strange and unexpected, and happened on an older version of DF. I do however have screenshots of the second time this occurred. But the civ was already considered dead by the time my adventurer was able to claim the position of overlord, but I can provide them if you want.
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: Rumrusher on April 05, 2022, 06:25:10 pm
Quote from: dikbutdagrate on April 05, 2022, 03:51:34 pm
Quote from: joostheger on April 04, 2022, 02:29:47 am
Hello brave adventurers!

Here's a challenge for you.
In the other topic there's some debate wheter you can or cannot become a king.
so my question to your all, is : can you prove that this is possible?

And with king, I mean a king of a dwarven civ in a unmodded game. Beside that, anything goes.
It would be interesting, if you can become leader of another civ, like humans or elves.

Yes. Multiple times in fact. Also, once you're king, you can offer the position of king to other people. I tried offering the position to the demon overlord of a goblin civ, but they said they were busy.
-snip-

oh that's because they are already a leader of a different civ, you need to convince them to give up the title to you before they accept the title of monarch which when they do they will march over to the new seat of power.


Quote from: joostheger on April 05, 2022, 02:26:30 pm
Quote from: Rumrusher on April 05, 2022, 02:46:34 am
wait there's a debate on whether you can or can't be a king?

well vanilla wise it's possible to talk an monarch out of position of power if you find them in adventure mode then desync the discussion so that you move them into a submenu where you narrow down the dialog options where they might pick the option that steps down from being a monarch but uhh yeah weird that there's an debate on that subject.
oh wait the other topic's debate was made in 2020... I think around 2021 I found out about the noble shuffling by dialog mechanic and posted my findings on the forums.
I dont get this to work...
What option is to ask for their position? ask to yield?
also, i dont know how to shuffle the dialog.
can you help my with easier instructions?
(http://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/302956330304667649/961041287828611144/how-to-do-this-get-noble-stuff.gif)
so the way I do it is talk about the weather or the local environment or reply to an rumor then navigate over to the demand submenu which is usually where the option to "give up your title to who ever you talking to" is, then close the talk menu and wait a tick as the the person in the convo is now lock in to that submenu and has to choose from those options.
there's a chance that by ai and weighted choices they would pick to ask you to wait vs giving up the title... and I feel like it's tied to the unit's historical figure and soul and personality on what they pick as in my time of doing this I haven't got robbed by someone before or demanded to yield... which would be funny and leads to some interesting scenarios as you just now got dirt on someone and can ruin their lives and get folks to attempt to kill them. so I feel like it's not random and them giving up the title is probably passing some check that proves your adventurer is worthy of the responsibility.

so it probably ties into how high your social skills are vs the noble.

that said the desync/weather talk stuff does open the door to other manips with the game as you could become someone else's companion and I guess that adventurer will follow around that npc when you retire them.
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: Salmeuk on April 07, 2022, 01:23:31 pm
this conversation desync is interesting, I wonder if there are any other potential abuse-able submenus. could you, say, force a chance that anyone might join you on adventures?
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: Rumrusher on April 07, 2022, 02:35:55 pm
Quote from: Salmeuk on April 07, 2022, 01:23:31 pm
this conversation desync is interesting, I wonder if there are any other potential abuse-able submenus. could you, say, force a chance that anyone might join you on adventures?
well desyncing that would only lead to them asking the adventurer to join them on adventures which just makes the adventurer a follower to them.
there's the pet submenu which lets one get the other person to re-gift the pet back to the adventurer which has the bonus of increasing the adventurer's affection towards the person on top of getting your pet back to re-re-gift them back to the person leading to a work around on the affection mechanic, though you do need a pet to access the pet submenu and gifting the only pet you have means you will be lock out of that menu to event attempt to get that person in that submenu.

I think there's a musical troupe thing where if you convince the other person to ask you for joining for entertainment you can get them to give up being a noble and start a band.
though I don't know after that you just let world sim happen and the ex-noble and the adventurer would show up to a fort for performing.
Title: Re: Proof needed: can you become a king?
Post by: Bralbaard on May 01, 2022, 03:04:34 pm
Quote from: Quantum Drop on April 04, 2022, 04:15:47 am
Museum III's first player-controlled adventurer, Bralbaard Hammerfishes, eventually became the King of his original civilization (dwarven; no clue about other civs) midway through the game. However, it seemed to be down to RNG as opposed to any concerted effort on his part; furthermore, he was deposed after some time (possibly due to being a necromancer/intelligent undead?). Game raws are unmodded beyond some raw edits to fix bugs.

So it seems that it's certainly possible to become the king/queen, but the topic definitely requires more research.

Can confirm that I became the king without even trying. The museum game has many different adventurers and it happened while my character was retired. It is worth noting that unretiring made my character give up the crown, being undead was unrelated. Apparently you can actually keep the crown with Rumrushers method?