Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 07, 2022, 08:06:39 pm
This was no tyrant's kingdom, but an empire of merit and achievement. The Emperor had been selected for his wisdom and education, and his accomplishments as the Court Minister of Agriculture prior to his election. Before his decisions, he listened to the words of his advisors, the other members of the Jade Court. He was not an infallible man, but he was well-loved for his fairness and well-reasoned decisions.
The morning was a morning much like any other, and the Emperor had a crossbow bolt sticking out of his neck. It was an uncanny, unreal thing. The Emperor gurgled in his death throes, twitching, then lay still.
The funeral was tense, as the mourners cried out in the Palace roads. "Woe!" They cried, for the empire had lost its Emperor. And as the Emperor was laid to rest, you received word from the imperial investigators assigned to discover the truth of the Emperor's assassination. There was no doubt about it, now. The Emperor had been assassinated by a pawn of the Onyx Cabal - and they would be making a play for the bloodstained throne they had emptied.
Among the Court, you were chosen to be one of the electors, and nine more joined you. By the time you learned that the Onyx Cabal had infiltrated your electorate, it was too late to cease the proceedings. You resolved to ensure that the throne would find a worthy successor. You resolved that the empire would not fall to ruin by the acts of an Onyx Emperor.
Or were you one of the conspirators, scheming eagerly for the day you would seize your rightful place at the head of this empire? None could say. Not till the bitter end of the Jade Court's election of the new Emperor.
Welcome to Jade Court, a ten-player election mafia. The goal of this game isn't to execute the traitors among you or murder the innocent, but to make sure that your faction has a member elected Emperor. While power roles will be relevant, I'll take a break from my prior preferences - not everyone will have abilities, and the abilities that are present will be weaker in comparison to my prior games. This is a bit of an experimental format, but I'll do my best to make sure it's balanced and fun to play.
Core Rules:
- The game shall possess ten players. Seven of those ten players will possess the Jade Court alignment, and the remaining three will possess the Onyx Cabal alignment. Onyx Cabal members share a private chat together which may be used at any time. Since Quicktopic is dead, we'll use Discord for this.
- If all three Nominated players are of the Jade Court alignment, they will form a Jade Council and the Jade Court-aligned players will win. If all three Nominated players are of the Onyx Cabal alignment, they will lead a coup, seize control of the Jade Palace, and the Onyx Cabal will win immediately. Otherwise, the winning faction will be whichever faction has one of its members elected Emperor.
- The game will occur over four Day phases. There will be no other phases, nor will the game last longer than the end of the fourth Day phase. Each Day phase will last for 72 hours, not counting time spent on weekends.
- During the first three Day phases, the players will vote for Nomination. At the end of the Day, whichever player has received the most Nomination votes will be Nominated. In the event of a tied Nomination, the Day will continue until the tie is broken and no further. Once a player has been Nominated, they cannot be Nominated again. Furthermore, they may no longer use or be affected by [Direct] abilities, though they may still use or be affected by [Influence] abilities.
- On the final Day phase, assuming no faction instantly wins, the players will then vote for Election. All players who were not Nominated may now vote from among the Nominated players to select an Emperor. At the end of the final Day phase, whichever player has received the most Election votes will become Emperor. In the event of a tied Election, the Day will continue until the tie is broken and no further. Whichever faction has one of its members Elected Emperor will then win.
- Please vote in blue for Election and Nomination. Votes may be freely moved between players or removed under normal circumstances.
- Vote counts will be released every 24 hours, at 8 PM Central time. Active-use abilities that do not resolve at the end of the Day will also resolve at this time. I may also post other vote counts on request or when appropriate, when I have the time to make them, though abilities will not resolve at those times.
- Please also try to be reasonably civil to your fellow players. Some aggression is understandable, but we're all playing a game here. If you feel the need to take a breather, please do so.
- I shouldn't need to say this, but no quoting mod communications, including your role PM, in the game thread. If you're a member of the Onyx Cabal, you may quote mod communications in your private chat.
Spoiler: Niche Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ability Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sect Rules (click to show/hide)
Signups:
- EuchreJack
Maximum Spin-> hector13- Roden
- Jim Groovester
- Egan_BW
- Knightwing64
- notquitethere
- webadict
- reina
- ToonyMan
Post by: EuchreJack on May 07, 2022, 08:09:52 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 07, 2022, 08:28:18 pm
Post by: Roden on May 07, 2022, 08:45:28 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 07, 2022, 10:35:08 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 07, 2022, 10:39:23 pm
ha ha, the smarts can't votekill me for being unhelpful in a game with no votekills! a perfect game to learn in!
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 07, 2022, 10:51:43 pm
ha ha, the smarts can't votekill me for being unhelpful in a game with no votekills! a perfect game to learn in!What do you mean "learn"? Didn't you win my crazy game? You seemed to do fine there. :P
Post by: Egan_BW on May 07, 2022, 10:57:31 pm
Post by: hector13 on May 08, 2022, 12:22:42 am
Watching currently.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 08, 2022, 06:08:22 am
Don’t worry guys, I’ve taken anti lurking classes
Post by: notquitethere on May 08, 2022, 12:43:50 pm
Post by: webadict on May 08, 2022, 11:13:58 pm
Post by: reina on May 10, 2022, 12:37:45 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 10, 2022, 04:49:05 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 10, 2022, 05:35:08 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 11, 2022, 02:48:41 am
Hope that's okay with y'all.
To be explicit, game not started yet.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 11, 2022, 06:25:14 pm
Day 1 - Gathered For The Sake Of The Future
The Jade Palace's deliberation chamber was only rarely used. The security of it was the very thing that made it a trial to make use of - its layers of protection, bureaucratic and physical, were greater in number than even the Emperor's throne room. The servants watched each other for any suspicious signs, as did the palace guards. It was an environment that could drive even the most enduring worker to a paranoid spasm, and for the sake of all the Court, the chamber lay empty nearly every year.
There were few exceptions to this rule. The highest of trials, of corrupted officials and greater district managers, could be conducted within if the need was great. When the Palace was under military threat, the Emperor could be secluded within, to take advantage of the chamber's physical security.
And when the Emperor was dead, only the highest security would suffice for those choosing the person to take his place.
Ten people gathered, watched by the most loyal and trustworthy guards, and shared tea and meal cakes prepared by the most loyal and honored servants. They could not leave, nor could anyone unauthorized enter. This was the procedural deliberation that would decide the future of the empire.
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 0
Roden - 0
Jim Groovester - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 0
notquitethere - 0
webadict - 0
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (10): EuchreJack, Maximum Spin, Roden, Jim Groovester, Egan_BW, Knightwing64, notquitethere, webadict, reina, ToonyMan
Welcome to Day 1. As a reminder, please vote for Nomination in blue. Good luck, everyone.
Day 1 has begun, and will end 8 PM Central time, Monday the 16th - as per time on weekends not counting.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 11, 2022, 06:31:06 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 11, 2022, 06:33:50 pm
I like the roleplaying Knightwing, but I don't think I could do that all game.
Post by: notquitethere on May 11, 2022, 06:41:37 pm
(http://i.postimg.cc/ZRkTCfJf/YUd4AYp.png)
He is handsome but mysterious
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/%E8%9C%80%E6%B1%89%E4%B8%9E%E7%9B%B8%E5%BF%A0%E6%AD%A6%E4%BE%AF%E8%AF%B8%E8%91%9B%E4%BA%AE.jpg/200px-%E8%9C%80%E6%B1%89%E4%B8%9E%E7%9B%B8%E5%BF%A0%E6%AD%A6%E4%BE%AF%E8%AF%B8%E8%91%9B%E4%BA%AE.jpg)
His character role is heroic and wise
(https://www.wargaming3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/The-Confused-General-sample.jpg)
He has no idea who the good or bad guys are so would not be best placed among the electorate
Post by: notquitethere on May 11, 2022, 06:43:31 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 11, 2022, 06:46:37 pm
notquitethere
Post by: Roden on May 11, 2022, 06:57:13 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 11, 2022, 07:00:35 pm
Post by: webadict on May 11, 2022, 07:03:55 pm
Alright, first thing we should do is determine Jack's alignment since he's the easiest to read. If he's town, we just win. If he's mafia, well that's one mafia member down.I agree with this plan.
Also, I'm undecided if I should accept nominations or if no one will believe I'm Town, but I feel like not accepting nominations is scummy, so, whatever.
I will note, however, that I am a regular ol' Townie... I think.
Uhhh. I’m not sure about thatNot voting for you ever then.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 11, 2022, 07:08:57 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 11, 2022, 07:09:44 pm
If elected Emperor, ER (me) promises to provide a joyous era of prosperity and kicking the crap out of our nation's enemies. That's right, I'm a ruthless son of a bitch. Hell, even the Onyx Cabal members doubtlessly among us should vote for me, I'll grant them amnesty and then appoint them to high ranks in the secret police where they can do their sicko shit legally!
Vote smart. Vote ER.
/RP
So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?
NQT seems legit, but I'm not sure if I see the value in voting so early. Not like it puts pressure on the scum. Is there something I'm missing with this evaluation?
Knightwing is posting, I'm glad. That last post has a scrap of substance to it, but let's see more!
Oops, that's outdated now.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 11, 2022, 07:16:40 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
notquitethere
Post by: ToonyMan on May 11, 2022, 07:44:01 pm
Also, I'm undecided if I should accept nominations or if no one will believe I'm Town, but I feel like not accepting nominations is scummy, so, whatever.I was thinking this, but since you've said it out loud I'll be glad to point it out.
I think anybody who plays humble is probably scum. Although the fact you're aware of this makes it moot if you're scum so whatever. But at the same time, would you say this out loud in the first place if you were mafia? It's something to think about for sure.
Wot, I was saying that I didn’t think jack was easy to read?Do you think you're easy to read?
Man, you're just making NQT's opener even better holy shit.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
notquitethere
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 11, 2022, 07:47:08 pm
So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?
Vote town instead of scum.
NQT seems legit, but I'm not sure if I see the value in voting so early. Not like it puts pressure on the scum. Is there something I'm missing with this evaluation?
See my point above. Since there's no traditional lynch in this game traditional pressure doesn't make much sense to do. The best form of offense in this game is to form a clique of safe emperor candidates that excludes scum.
You've made one post but I don't trust you.
Alright, first thing we should do is determine Jack's alignment since he's the easiest to read. If he's town, we just win. If he's mafia, well that's one mafia member down.
I also don't trust you.
I don't know if I trust you yet.
I don't know if I trust you yet but I'm thinking if I did I wouldn't be wrong to do so.
This is a man who knows exactly what he wants and is not afraid of getting it.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 11, 2022, 07:53:25 pm
So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?If we can fully trust one player as town then I don't see how we could actually lose.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 11, 2022, 07:56:42 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 11, 2022, 08:03:24 pm
Also, are the sects created by players individually or by the GM?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 11, 2022, 08:22:29 pm
Also, are the sects created by players individually or by the GM?
Nothing in the rules indicates player generation of sects so they must be generated by the moderator.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 11, 2022, 08:25:31 pm
But if there is a sect looking out to protect the rightful Imperial family, I'm your guy.
If there's a sect looking out to specifically harm the rightful Imperial family, though, it's uhhhhh, Jim.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 11, 2022, 08:31:15 pm
So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?
Vote town instead of scum.
Great idea! If we all just do that then there's no way we can lose~
Egan_BW
You've made one post but I don't trust you.
Good for you!
Alright, I’m tired so I’m about to go to sleep, don’t make any big decisions without meeeeee
Also, are the sects created by players individually or by the GM?
Knight, you should know that no sleeping is allowed in these games. We're making big decisions all the time! :)
From what I can tell, I'm probably the most rightful heir, so you should nominate me if you want to keep the Mandate of Heaven. In fact, Maximum Spin!
Screw the mandate of heaven, elect me so that we can send those bastards to hell!
I'll make a serious vote once everyone's posted.
Post by: reina on May 11, 2022, 08:51:23 pm
So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?
I like the discussion about what our goals/approach should be, and think the format does make the scumhunt a bit harder than usual. Vote killing is usually a very good source of intel. It confirms the identity of the victim, implicates anyone who had been overly defensive of that victim, and every success early on makes the late game easier.
Proving someone town is definitely a win condition for us, not sure how to accomplish that though.
Our first nomination is probably not going to be the most critical one. Given more information as we go (and potentially from town abilities) we'll more likely to guess right on days 2 and 3. And the day 1 nominee will end up with much more time under the spotlight (if we guess wrong and they're scum).
I'll default to voting for myself right now (reina) because I have no reason to trust anyone else.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 11, 2022, 09:13:34 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 11, 2022, 09:16:00 pm
Maximum Spin
Egan_BW
reina
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on May 11, 2022, 09:18:20 pm
Yeah, okay, I'm with the notquitethere party now.
See, therein lies the destiny of we brave few who try too hard. I feel like I might do that. I was thinking of how I'd start off the Day all of today, and this was what I settled on. But, the good news is that I am Town, and even better news is that if I am voting, I might be in a good spot.Also, I'm undecided if I should accept nominations or if no one will believe I'm Town, but I feel like not accepting nominations is scummy, so, whatever.I was thinking this, but since you've said it out loud I'll be glad to point it out.
I think anybody who plays humble is probably scum. Although the fact you're aware of this makes it moot if you're scum so whatever. But at the same time, would you say this out loud in the first place if you were mafia? It's something to think about for sure.
Toony sees what I see, so I'm putting Toony on tbe Town list.Maximum SpinEgan_BWreinaSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 11, 2022, 09:20:01 pm
Cold of you to exclude notquitethere like that.Maximum SpinEgan_BWreinaSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on May 11, 2022, 09:21:13 pm
You just gotta feel it, you know?
Post by: reina on May 11, 2022, 09:22:33 pm
I think the greedy play is to campaign for themselves every day. Gives them more chances to rig the Nominees. But if they coordinate a bit too much for each other we might see a pattern by the end of day 3.
The patient play would be to lay low or campaign independently for the first few days; coordinating on the last day. We aren't going to have much time to vet the Day 3 candidate post-nomination. There may even be town abilities that only target Nominees, and so a later candidate would be dodging less bullets.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 11, 2022, 09:24:06 pm
Max, Max, Max...Oh, I feel something, all right.
You just gotta feel it, you know?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 11, 2022, 09:40:30 pm
Oh, I can make it even better. We're not voting any one of the three of you! Ever! Thank me later.Cold of you to exclude notquitethere like that.Maximum SpinEgan_BWreinaSpoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/MCITI2u.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)
ToonyMan - Jade
NQT - obviously Jade
Jim - probably Jade
Webadict - probably Jade
Knightwing - ???
Roden - ???
Jack - ???
Maximum - likely Onyx
Egan - likely Onyx
reina - likely Onyx
Post by: Egan_BW on May 11, 2022, 09:42:20 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 11, 2022, 09:43:13 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 11, 2022, 09:46:28 pm
are you seriously scumreading me because I got to the thread later than nqtThat does seem unfair.
Okay, you're the least suspicious of the three. But still not a good nominee.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 11, 2022, 09:52:51 pm
But still not a good nominee.Why not? Why is notquitethere a better one?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 11, 2022, 09:58:47 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 11, 2022, 10:08:56 pm
Just targetting the new players who don't know any betterThat might apply to you, but the new guy is supposed to be a veteran player and ought to know better.
Post by: webadict on May 11, 2022, 10:21:20 pm
I dunno. He just seemed like he'd be good on the bench, and nobody else seemed good. You seem too eager for it.But still not a good nominee.Why not? Why is notquitethere a better one?
Post by: reina on May 11, 2022, 10:24:24 pm
I was curious to see what our nomination choices might look like if we considered just the probabilities:
Code: [Select]
| | | | | | | | | |
| --- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- |
| D1 | Town | Scum |
| | 7/10 | 3/10 |
| | | | |
| D2 | Town | Scum | Town | Scum |
| | 6/9 | 3/9 | 7/9 | 2/9 |
| | | | | |
| D3 | Town | Scum | Town | Scum | Town | Scum | Town | Scum |
| | 5/8 | 3/8 | 6/8 | 2/8 | 6/8 | 2/8 | 7/8 | 1/8 |
Those are the chances we nominate a given faction for each day.
Chance to vote scum day 1: 30%
Chance to vote scum day 2: 27%
Chance to vote scum day 3: 25%
Not sure if that's useful in any way. If we left it purely up to chance then our day 1 nominee is the most likely to be town.
Post by: webadict on May 11, 2022, 10:28:25 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 11, 2022, 10:52:04 pm
Oh, I can make it even better. We're not voting any one of the three of you! Ever! Thank me later.
But we need one member of the Onyx Cabal in the final election if we're going to elect an Emperor, otherwise we get the Jade Council ending which is lame.
He made me laugh. The rest made me sleepy.
This honestly. Fun banter is a town tell for this game I'd say.
But now that I've said this it no longer is.
The cool kids' club is no longer accepting applications.
Post by: reina on May 11, 2022, 11:00:02 pm
Sorry everyone, guess I forgot that editing is frowned upon. Makes sense tho, i just reflexively fixed a typo.
I was curious to see what our nomination choices might look like if we considered just the probabilities:Code: [Select]| | | | | | | | | |
| --- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- |
| D1 | Town | Scum |
| | 7/10 | 3/10 |
| | | | |
| D2 | Town | Scum | Town | Scum |
| | 6/9 | 3/9 | 7/9 | 2/9 |
| | | | | |
| D3 | Town | Scum | Town | Scum | Town | Scum | Town | Scum |
| | 5/8 | 3/8 | 6/8 | 2/8 | 6/8 | 2/8 | 7/8 | 1/8 |
Those are the chances we nominate a given faction for each day.
Chance to vote scum day 1: 30%
Chance to vote scum day 2: 27%
Chance to vote scum day 3: 25%
Not sure if that's useful in any way. If we left it purely up to chance then our day 1 nominee is the most likely to be town.
Along these same lines our probability of nominating all 3 Cabal members and triggering the early defeat is ~0.8%
Post by: reina on May 11, 2022, 11:47:28 pm
Chance to vote scum day 1: 30%
Chance to vote scum day 2: 27%
Chance to vote scum day 3: 25%
Not sure if that's useful in any way. If we left it purely up to chance then our day 1 nominee is the most likely to be town.
Wow, just realized I brain farted and got the last sentence backwards. We actually have the highest chance of a town nominee on day 3 not 1.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 12:05:54 am
The cool kids' club is no longer accepting applications.Your mom is still accepting applications.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 12, 2022, 12:18:57 am
The cool kids' club is no longer accepting applications.Your mom is still accepting applications.
how dare u
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 12:43:42 am
Alright, first thing we should do is determine Jack's alignment since he's the easiest to read. If he's town, we just win. If he's mafia, well that's one mafia member down.This is a great plan, and I will eventually be seeking a nomination. It also sounds like something town!Roden would say.
I have an Influence Ability that I can activate on the Third Day, so I'll probably be going for a nomination on the Second Day.
But first...
Nominate Jim Groovester
Why? Well, if Jim is town, then Jim will have great insights...and probably will bungle the vote. So, let's get him out of the way. The Nomination process will hopefully put enough spotlight on Jim to ascertain whether or not Jim is town.
I do NOT think knowingly nominating Onyx players is a good idea. However town potentially bears the most risk with exactly 1 Onyx player, as that means 2 Onyx players and 5 Jade players will be voting. I probably should not be giving the Onyx team any advice, but they have a private chat to figure this out. We as town need to get out information and strategy.
NQT is a terrible candidate because I think this whole "running as a candidate" is a way to "hide in plain sight". NQT doesn't have to scumhunt as they can instead post about what a great candidate they would be. Fluffy posts with no substance.
@Max: Is Knightwing town or scum?
@reina: I'm scumreading you, because your statistics are a way to post without scumhunting. Thankfully, you can't get lynched in this game, but watch it!
Web & Toony: I'm not sure about, but they can coerce people's votes regardless of their ability to vote, so I don't care if they are nominated at this time.
@Egan_BW: Please vote Jim! Or tell me why not...
Since you all want humor, have a classic EJ comment:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Roden on May 12, 2022, 12:53:13 am
Good point.Oh, I can make it even better. We're not voting any one of the three of you! Ever! Thank me later.
But we need one member of the Onyx Cabal in the final election if we're going to elect an Emperor, otherwise we get the Jade Council ending which is lame.He made me laugh. The rest made me sleepy.
This honestly. Fun banter is a town tell for this game I'd say.
But now that I've said this it no longer is.
The cool kids' club is no longer accepting applications.
notquitethere
Post by: Roden on May 12, 2022, 12:57:07 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 12, 2022, 01:28:33 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 12, 2022, 01:29:38 am
But first...
Nominate Jim Groovester
Why? Well, if Jim is town, then Jim will have great insights...and probably will bungle the vote. So, let's get him out of the way. The Nomination process will hopefully put enough spotlight on Jim to ascertain whether or not Jim is town.
lmao fair enough
Jim Groovester
Hypothetical question to everyone: if you had the chance to Night 0 Cop check either Toony or Web, who would be the better choice?
ToonyMan because he carries whatever team he's on hard.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 01:30:40 am
Hypothetical question to everyone: if you had the chance to Night 0 Cop check either Toony or Web, who would be the better choice?Toony.
@Max: Is Knightwing town or scum?So far, leaning scum. Like with whales, though, we must kill more to find out why. Sorry, obscure reference kind of just popped out there. What I meant to say was, I need to see more from him to feel sure.
I also agree about the new guy. #1 scumpick.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 12, 2022, 01:35:04 am
@Egan_BW: Please vote Jim! Or tell me why not...
I was leaning NQT, but mainly just because everyone else seemed convinced. Is there a conspiracy?...
...Yeah there probably is. They're all scum! Jim Groovester
Post by: reina on May 12, 2022, 01:40:59 am
@reina: I'm scumreading you, because your statistics are a way to post without scumhunting. Thankfully, you can't get lynched in this game, but watch it!Thank you Jack, I'm glad someone around here decided to explain why they are scumreading me. Something I can actually respond to! Other folks were simply content with sending me images of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson.
I can definitely see your point of view regarding what I initially chose to post about. Doing things other than scumhunting isn't a great look. We'll be getting back to that shortly once I've shaken the rust off.
But also this,
I probably should not be giving the Onyx team any advice, but they have a private chat to figure this out. We as town need to get out information and strategy.is a great take IMO. And very similar to how I was thinking when making those statistics posts: I saw an opportunity to do a little bit of game theory and share it with the town. Who knows, stuff like that might just end up informing our strategy. The town's best chance is to distribute information openly.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 01:50:12 am
Hypothetical question to everyone: if you had the chance to Night 0 Cop check either Toony or Web, who would be the better choice?Web. I never seem to get doubts of Web out of my mind. Once I decide on Toony, I'm usually comfortable sticking with that opinion.
Welcome to Team Paranoid. I am also wondering if there were Onyx among the players nominating NQT.
@Egan_BW: Please vote Jim! Or tell me why not...
I was leaning NQT, but mainly just because everyone else seemed convinced. Is there a conspiracy?...
...Yeah there probably is. They're all scum! Jim Groovester
But maybe YOU are buddying me? :o
Well, obviously I can't see what you see, since I thought Knightwing looked townish. I guess we'll let Knightwing's willingness to post with this greater scrutiny decide.Hypothetical question to everyone: if you had the chance to Night 0 Cop check either Toony or Web, who would be the better choice?Toony.@Max: Is Knightwing town or scum?So far, leaning scum. Like with whales, though, we must kill more to find out why. Sorry, obscure reference kind of just popped out there. What I meant to say was, I need to see more from him to feel sure.
I also agree about the new guy. #1 scumpick.
New player reina
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 01:56:23 am
While it is generally "bad form" to attack people just for scumreading you, since you are an unknown player (and thus easy lynch) you could check those who scumread you to determine whether it was investigation or smear.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 12, 2022, 02:01:03 am
I can definitely see your point of view regarding what I initially chose to post about. Doing things other than scumhunting isn't a great look. We'll be getting back to that shortly once I've shaken the rust off.
But we're townhunting this game.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 02:05:25 am
Alright, I’m tired so I’m about to go to sleep, don’t make any big decisions without meeeeee
Also, are the sects created by players individually or by the GM?
Hm, is this a (scum)slip that Knightwing is a member of a sect?
Scum in () because sects are not necessarily Onyx. I guess they're like Neighbor, or knowing this to be Fallacy game, I'd say Neighborizor-Neighbor combo.
I can believe Knightwing to have not read their role well enough to realize they were the Neighborizor, and also can believe Knightwing would have not known to ask this in the private chat if they had one.
Oh well, only one way to be sure....
@Knightwing64: Oh hey, are you in a sect? It does not make you scum, and it actually helps town if you tell us.
What is the difference?I can definitely see your point of view regarding what I initially chose to post about. Doing things other than scumhunting isn't a great look. We'll be getting back to that shortly once I've shaken the rust off.
But we're townhunting this game.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 02:11:04 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 02:25:10 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 04:51:35 am
Unrelatedly... it occurs to me that this flavor makes it a little weird that we don't know anything about one another. It's not as if we're strangers across a crowded ballroom. For example, I'm a member of the Imperial family, so I would think all the courtiers would recognize me.Uh, isn't that how most Mafia games on this forum work?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 04:52:32 am
1) I am a courtier
2) My role will probably be revealed on day 3
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 05:16:24 am
Uh, isn't that how most Mafia games on this forum work?Most games don't have flavor that specifically brings this into question, as far as I've seen, no.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 12, 2022, 05:43:25 am
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 06:45:38 am
Hypothetical question to everyone: if you had the chance to Night 0 Cop check either Toony or Web, who would be the better choice?Web, never can tell with that guy.
So, webadict. Gonna give you the BOD here. Was I wrong earlier?... What? Sorry, I don't know what you're asking here? I am also tired so that's partially it.
@EJ: If you think NQT + wagon might have scum on it, why nominate Jim?
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 08:34:22 am
In perhaps somewhat arbitrarily ordered Town to scum:
ToonyMan is very likely Town. Intuitive guess as to why: He seems excited to actually be Town for once. He's also pretty aware of the scumtells, and usually if ToonyMan sees what I'm seeing, then he's on my team. I will probably nominate him on Day 3 should he continue to look Town, in a way to bribe him in case he's somehow scum.
EuchreJack is surprisingly less likely to be Town than ToonyMan, but this may shift as he posts. His defense of Jim Groovester isn't wrong though, but... I'm not liking his posts as much as I usually do, but probably just because I disagree with some of his conclusions. He doesn't seem scummy for being wrong, at least. EuchreJack may be better as a Day 2 candidate, though.
Jim Groovester is... probably Town? Nothing Jim is saying is inherently wrong. I'm not a fan of him voting for himself when EuchreJack voted for him, but I understand the logic behind it.
notquitethere is Town, nbd yo. I don't really see a need to defend this statement.
reina is... Town? We'll go with Town because they aren't scum. I know the self-vote was suspicious and the stats thing is whatever, but the posts are actually solid to me.
Roden is probably Town! Also, a good Day 1 candidate in case the whole NQT thing isn't floating boats, but that's a discussion for later. (I will mark his name in green to show support for him as a Day 1 candidate.)
Knightwing64 is idk.
Maximum Spin... I want to say he's not scum, but... I think he's probably scum because he's NOT pinging my scumdar, which is usually the case for scum Maximum Spin. I dunno, he has a numb feeling about him, and I don't like it because it's sinister.
Egan_BW is probably scum. Something about them makes me feel wary, and I don't like it. Like watching them play as scum in KWN. It's off-putting.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 12:16:52 pm
I don't understand the point of this otherwise:
Also, are the sects created by players individually or by the GM?Nothing in the rules indicates player generation of sects so they must be generated by the moderator.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 12:25:33 pm
Jim seems extremely goofy and I feel like they're town. I was right about this when they were posting in ALL CAPS for SBYOR2.
NQT is a ghost, but a ghost we must elect.
Jack's opener (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373342#msg8373342) is very sterile and NAI. I can't tell either way right now. They're pointing things out and solving, but I don't see any big clears. Cautionarily precautious for the time being.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 12:28:33 pm
Everything.But we're townhunting this game.What is the difference?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 12:37:35 pm
But we need one member of the Onyx Cabal in the final election if we're going to elect an Emperor, otherwise we get the Jade Council ending which is lame.Personally, I agree. Having the game go to a Phase 2 is much more interesting. But this does play against my wincon and I'm not striving for it.
I have a question even though I already know the answer: Do you really believe NQT is a Jade loyalist?
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 12:47:12 pm
Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.The Jim thing is why I'm thinking Jim is Town. It's not that he doesn't do silly things as scum, but this does seem like a more Town-sided version of him. I'm unsure because I'm generally unsure of Jim, but I'm willing to put more weight on it since you and Jack are pushing it.
Jim seems extremely goofy and I feel like they're town. I was right about this when they were posting in ALL CAPS for SBYOR2.
NQT is a ghost, but a ghost we must elect.
Jack's opener (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373342#msg8373342) is very sterile and NAI. I can't tell either way right now. They're pointing things out and solving, but I don't see any big clears. Cautionarily precautious for the time being.
The problem with that is that this might also be why I think Jack is more likely to be Town, but I'm not really ready to defend Jack being Town to the death yet. For the most part, I'm okay with Jim Groovester, especially with his cool kid's comment, since that comment felt genuinely Town.
Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.Sadly, this makes me less likely to be nominated, so I'm unfortunately on voting duty all game. But, personally, I don't see this as too bad of a thing, as it'll be Day 4 and I'll be alive, so that's an automatic win.
I am serious, though, I think having ToonyMan nominated Day 3 is a good idea.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 03:06:53 pm
Sorry, I was really tired when I posted that and somehow expected you to understand that I meant "benefit of the doubt" and was asking your opinion on EuchreJack since you said you can read him easily. I was being cagey about it so EuchreJack wouldn't know what I meant. But apparently also so you and everyone else wouldn't either.So, webadict. Gonna give you the BOD here. Was I wrong earlier?... What? Sorry, I don't know what you're asking here? I am also tired so that's partially it.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 04:06:57 pm
@EJ: If you think NQT + wagon might have scum on it, why nominate Jim?
I was sort of flat footed on the game start. My opening was going to be to nominate Jim for the reasons I mentioned.
NQT makes me thing he's scum, not only because of the whole "campaigning is a way to avoid scumhunting", but also because the NQT posts reminded me of scum!NQT.
Since I suspect NQT is scum, I suspect someone supporting NQT by nominating NQT is scum
I guess I'm not exactly giving the answer you might want, but that is my admittedly flawed reasoning.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 04:13:00 pm
Jim is one of them, plus Web, and Toonyman.
I'm going to keep supporting Jim, as I see Jim as slightly townleaning whereas NQT as scummy.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 04:14:01 pm
Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 12, 2022, 04:17:35 pm
But we're townhunting this game.What is the difference?
Well with one you're hunting for scum and the other you're hunting for town.
Thanks for letting me clear that up for you.
In the interests of full disclosure:
1) I am a courtier
2) My role will probably be revealed on day 3
Not that I think there's anything particularly wrong with it nor do I have any particular opposition to it, but why are you claiming?
Jim Groovester is... probably Town? Nothing Jim is saying is inherently wrong. I'm not a fan of him voting for himself when EuchreJack voted for him, but I understand the logic behind it.
I think objecting to anybody for a self-vote is kind of weird since at best it's not alignment indicative and at worst it's also not alignment indicative. Both town and scum have reasons for why they wish to be nominated.
Also, and this may or may not shock you, but
I wanna be the Emperor
Roden is probably Town! Also, a good Day 1 candidate in case the whole NQT thing isn't floating boats, but that's a discussion for later. (I will mark his name in green to show support for him as a Day 1 candidate.)
I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying but advancing Roden as a viable candidate makes me uncomfortable since I don't share the same opinion about Roden as of yet.
I have a question even though I already know the answer: Do you really believe NQT is a Jade loyalist?
I could see scum and town notquitethere both making that post, but I think town notquitethere more readily and easily makes that post than scum notquitethere does. Really I'd say any town player in general more readily makes that post than any scum player does. It comes across as fun rather than a careful and calculated move to advance an agenda.
That said silence does not befit any town player in this game so notquitethere should post some more.
Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Reread your role PM and come back to me on that one.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 04:50:38 pm
In the interests of full disclosure:
1) I am a courtier
2) My role will probably be revealed on day 3
Not that I think there's anything particularly wrong with it nor do I have any particular opposition to it, but why are you claiming?
...Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Reread your role PM and come back to me on that one.
I claimed because I didn't see any harm in doing so, I wanted to be clear that some roles do exist, did not want too much surprise when I use my ability on day 3, and wanted to make clear that I can be nominated prior to day 3 and still use my ability.
As for Cabal, my role PM doesn't mention the word. I do see the enemy faction is called the Onyx Cabal, so maybe I didn't understand Toonyman's post.
@Toonyman: What did you mean by your statement? I think I might understand, but maybe you can clarify for me?
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 04:52:40 pm
Uh... Like, I don't wanna be meta, but... Well...Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Reread your role PM and come back to me on that one.
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 04:54:46 pm
You don't think so? I dunno, Roden seems fine to me. What's bothering you about Roden?Roden is probably Town! Also, a good Day 1 candidate in case the whole NQT thing isn't floating boats, but that's a discussion for later. (I will mark his name in green to show support for him as a Day 1 candidate.)
I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying but advancing Roden as a viable candidate makes me uncomfortable since I don't share the same opinion about Roden as of yet.
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 04:58:45 pm
Ok, I probably should have actually LOOKED at the players that joined in supporting Candidate NQT before shooting my mouth off.I don't inherently see NQT as scummy for that move. It's actually pretty standard for his Townplay, so I'm okay with it. What exactly seems scummy about it?
Jim is one of them, plus Web, and Toonyman.
I'm going to keep supporting Jim, as I see Jim as slightly townleaning whereas NQT as scummy.
It is flawed reasoning, but I do understand it. You are right, but I do expect NQT to participate.@EJ: If you think NQT + wagon might have scum on it, why nominate Jim?
I was sort of flat footed on the game start. My opening was going to be to nominate Jim for the reasons I mentioned.
NQT makes me thing he's scum, not only because of the whole "campaigning is a way to avoid scumhunting", but also because the NQT posts reminded me of scum!NQT.
Since I suspect NQT is scum, I suspect someone supporting NQT by nominating NQT is scum
I guess I'm not exactly giving the answer you might want, but that is my admittedly flawed reasoning.
So, if that's the case, do you think you'd be a better candidate on Day 1?
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 05:01:10 pm
Ah, that makes more sense. I'm still in the alignmentof(EuchreJack) == Town camp, so you're probably right about that.Sorry, I was really tired when I posted that and somehow expected you to understand that I meant "benefit of the doubt" and was asking your opinion on EuchreJack since you said you can read him easily. I was being cagey about it so EuchreJack wouldn't know what I meant. But apparently also so you and everyone else wouldn't either.So, webadict. Gonna give you the BOD here. Was I wrong earlier?... What? Sorry, I don't know what you're asking here? I am also tired so that's partially it.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 05:22:15 pm
Ok, I probably should have actually LOOKED at the players that joined in supporting Candidate NQT before shooting my mouth off.I don't inherently see NQT as scummy for that move. It's actually pretty standard for his Townplay, so I'm okay with it. What exactly seems scummy about it?
Jim is one of them, plus Web, and Toonyman.
I'm going to keep supporting Jim, as I see Jim as slightly townleaning whereas NQT as scummy.It is flawed reasoning, but I do understand it. You are right, but I do expect NQT to participate.@EJ: If you think NQT + wagon might have scum on it, why nominate Jim?
I was sort of flat footed on the game start. My opening was going to be to nominate Jim for the reasons I mentioned.
NQT makes me thing he's scum, not only because of the whole "campaigning is a way to avoid scumhunting", but also because the NQT posts reminded me of scum!NQT.
Since I suspect NQT is scum, I suspect someone supporting NQT by nominating NQT is scum
I guess I'm not exactly giving the answer you might want, but that is my admittedly flawed reasoning.
So, if that's the case, do you think you'd be a better candidate on Day 1?
Hm, I had thought NQT has posted more than twice at the very beginning. So now NQT is in lurker territory, which is a problem since scum!NQT lurks.
So yes, I think I would be a better candidate for Day 1 than NQT. Depending on how Jim shakes out, I might be a better candidate than Jim as well, although Jim is looking townish to me for now.
Arguably, the only person I KNOW to be town is myself, so I should very much wish to be nominated.
I think Roden had a great plan where town just figures out if I'm town, gets me nominated, then just votes me Day 4 as Emperor. It's a breaking strategy, which I would expect from town!Roden. Scum!Roden hasn't quite figured out how to fake that aspect, yet.
But since I can be nominated at any time (hopefully), might as well use the nomination process to screen other candidates. Since I have an ability, I don't know what other abilities exist. Some may counter the EJ as Emperor strategy.
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 05:34:54 pm
Hm, I had thought NQT has posted more than twice at the very beginning. So now NQT is in lurker territory, which is a problem since scum!NQT lurks.The game just started. You can't really call anyone a lurker for that, but if you'd like to push him to talk, consider giving him homework. Here's a lurkertrack, though.
So yes, I think I would be a better candidate for Day 1 than NQT. Depending on how Jim shakes out, I might be a better candidate than Jim as well, although Jim is looking townish to me for now.
Lurker Track
------------------------
Egan_BW - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372520#msg8372520) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372527#msg8372527) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373271#msg8373271) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373292#msg8373292) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373312#msg8373312) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373353#msg8373353) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373356#msg8373356) Last post was 16 hours ago.
EuchreJack - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372487#msg8372487) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373342#msg8373342) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373359#msg8373359) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373360#msg8373360) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373362#msg8373362) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373377#msg8373377) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373378#msg8373378) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373488#msg8373488) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373490#msg8373490) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373491#msg8373491) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373499#msg8373499) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373508#msg8373508) Last post was 1 hour ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372518#msg8372518) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373273#msg8373273) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373277#msg8373277) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373287#msg8373287) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373328#msg8373328) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373338#msg8373338) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373354#msg8373354) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373361#msg8373361) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373492#msg8373492) Last post was 2 hours ago.
Knightwing64 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372564#msg8372564) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373260#msg8373260) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373267#msg8373267) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373270#msg8373270) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373281#msg8373281) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373382#msg8373382) Last post was 12 hours ago.
Maximum Spin - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372493#msg8372493) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372524#msg8372524) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373280#msg8373280) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373289#msg8373289) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373303#msg8373303) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373306#msg8373306) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373309#msg8373309) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373313#msg8373313) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373315#msg8373315) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373318#msg8373318) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373337#msg8373337) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373355#msg8373355) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373363#msg8373363) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373368#msg8373368) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373380#msg8373380) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373475#msg8373475) Last post was 3 hours ago.
notquitethere - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372591#msg8372591) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373262#msg8373262) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373263#msg8373263) Last post was 23 hours ago.
reina - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372929#msg8372929) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373298#msg8373298) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373308#msg8373308) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373324#msg8373324) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373329#msg8373329) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373335#msg8373335) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373358#msg8373358) Last post was 16 hours ago.
Roden - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372498#msg8372498) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373266#msg8373266) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373344#msg8373344) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373346#msg8373346) Last post was 17 hours ago.
ToonyMan - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373064#msg8373064) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373261#msg8373261) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373264#msg8373264) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373276#msg8373276) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373278#msg8373278) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373304#msg8373304) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373311#msg8373311) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373314#msg8373314) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373316#msg8373316) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373449#msg8373449) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373450#msg8373450) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373451#msg8373451) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373453#msg8373453) Last post was 5 hours ago.
webadict - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8372660#msg8372660) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373269#msg8373269) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373305#msg8373305) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373307#msg8373307) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373322#msg8373322) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373325#msg8373325) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373393#msg8373393) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373414#msg8373414) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373456#msg8373456) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373500#msg8373500) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373503#msg8373503) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373504#msg8373504) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373505#msg8373505) Last post was 1 hour ago.
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 05:36:45 pm
------------------------
notquitethere - 4 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373263#msg8373263), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373264#msg8373264), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373305#msg8373305), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373344#msg8373344),
Jim Groovester - 3 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373342#msg8373342), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373354#msg8373354), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373356#msg8373356),
Maximum Spin - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373280#msg8373280),
reina - 1 - reina* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373298#msg8373298),
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Roden - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
webadict - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - Knightwing64,
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 05:39:30 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 12, 2022, 05:45:03 pm
So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?Town hunting is usually so much easier than scum hunting, and this setup actively rewards it! We need to get the towniest person onto the council and vote for that person.
Jim
Finally some more content for the meme thread!
Jack
NQT is a terrible candidate because I think this whole "running as a candidate" is a way to "hide in plain sight". NQT doesn't have to scumhunt as they can instead post about what a great candidate they would be. Fluffy posts with no substance.My post was meant to be funny, but it wasn't fluffy. I made two substantive claims. Can you tell me what those were?
Also RE: lurking, most of the day has happened while I was sleeping and working. Also, the last game I was scum in, I was powerwolfing, not lurking so I'm not exactly sure which game you're getting that idea from.
Roden
Hypothetical question to everyone: if you had the chance to Night 0 Cop check either Toony or Web, who would be the better choice?Knowing what I know now, I'd check Web, as I'm pretty sure Toony is town in this game. But before I had any knowledge, I'm not sure. Toony probably.
Tin Foil Hat Time
Is this sequence organic??
Nominate Jim Groovester
Why? Well, if Jim is town, then Jim will have great insights...and probably will bungle the vote. So, let's get him out of the way. The Nomination process will hopefully put enough spotlight on Jim to ascertain whether or not Jim is town.
lmao fair enough
Jim Groovester
@Egan_BW: Please vote Jim! Or tell me why not...
I was leaning NQT, but mainly just because everyone else seemed convinced. Is there a conspiracy?...
...Yeah there probably is. They're all scum! Jim Groovester
Post by: notquitethere on May 12, 2022, 05:47:25 pm
As is expected, I will be providing a questionably-useful-but-fun-for-me chart very soon.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 12, 2022, 06:25:15 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 12, 2022, 06:40:33 pm
Spoiler: Important Mafia Science (click to show/hide)
Town -> Scum
Toonyman was hard to place on my chart because he can appreciate a joke but he wasn't making jokes or (like some players) roleplaying or whatever. This probably isn't alignment indicative. What might be is if we see unnatural attempts to appeal as a candidate. Good, active, clear, nothing unusual for him yet.
Web is fine, he was first to pro-actively post reads. Good sign.
Max I'm townreading at the moment. Fun open, albeit a bit touchy about being scumread for getting in the thread later (NAI?)
What's interesting here is Reina's position. She votes for herself but isn't self-aggrandising, she relies on her effort through analysis to be quietly persuasive.
Roden and Knightwing have both given me very little to work with. Fair enough, I've hardly posted either, but I wouldn't want to call them either way yet.
Jim I'm tinfoiling a bit on (as we can see in my next post), but maybe I'm willing to give him a pass for being funny and transparent.
Jack's jokey statement felt very forced. I'm aware though, people have different sense of humor, and maybe I'm just being WIFOMY here because he suspects me, but I'm getting a bad feeling. I should drill down on this!
Egan seems really wishy-washy, right?
So… can someone brief me in on the general game plan here? I don’t understand all the technical mambo jumbo stuffOver three days we will vote three players onto a council. Then, if 2-3 of them are actually scum (onyx), we'll have to vote for the emperor among them. We win if all three council members are town (jade), or the emperor is town (jade).
So we need to hunt town for town members. Who do you think is town right now?
Post by: notquitethere on May 12, 2022, 06:50:48 pm
There are three Onyx Cabal members and they have a chat to co-ordinate... so we might expect some amount of co-ordination. They've got these two strategies:
A. Back one single Onyx Cabal member for nomination
B. Back two or three members and see who sticks for town
Strategy A has the downside of appearing too transparent. Probably scum aren't bold enough to do this. If they have done this, probably one Onyx votes for another, who self-votes, while the third Onyx lays low.
Strategy B makes it harder for town to divine the patterns of association... but also relies completely on luck as to whether any town will vote for them. If they're doing this, then they must hope to get scum on the council on day two or three. Some of them are probably self-voting if they're doing this strat.
It's possible the Onyx have some abilities that make one of these strategies seem more viable to them.
Spoiler: Current Votes (click to show/hide)
Looking at the votes as they currently stand, if Strategy A, then scum is Jim and either EuchreJack or Egan_BW, plus someone laying low (one of reina, Knightwing, or Max).
If it's Strategy B, then scum could be anywhere, but might hope that people will vote for them and so will be self-voting, or are waiting to see a wagon they can join onto their scum mate. And so are most likely in Jim/Max/Reina/Knightwing (but anyone else could be laying low and voting town for now)
All to say, hence my reticence of Jim!
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 06:54:48 pm
Max I'm townreading at the moment. Fun open, albeit a bit touchy about being scumread for getting in the thread later (NAI?)To put a finer point on it, you stole my move. I'm the legitimate heir, so I should have been campaigning like that, but you got there first and stole all the voters. So I was annoyed that you changed the context for me.
Post by: notquitethere on May 12, 2022, 07:01:53 pm
Seriously though, what are your thoughts about Strategy A and B? What do you think the Onyx do in this situation?
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 07:21:11 pm
Max, this would make for a very fine courtly drama. Please don't assassinate me due to your pique at being upstaged.I don't know why you've excluded the possibility that, even following Strategy A, there might be scum voting for town. After all, the voting period is of known length and there's plenty of time to switch after making some pretense of a convincing argument, like happened in the TricMagic game just now.
Seriously though, what are your thoughts about Strategy A and B? What do you think the Onyx do in this situation?
Post by: notquitethere on May 12, 2022, 07:24:43 pm
I'll revisit this day 2. Council members can still post in the thread, right?
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 12, 2022, 07:28:53 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 12, 2022, 07:31:00 pm
I'll revisit this day 2. Council members can still post in the thread, right?
Nominated players may still freely post and cast Nomination votes. Nominated players may not cast Election votes.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 12, 2022, 07:49:40 pm
Egan_BW is probably scum. Something about them makes me feel wary, and I don't like it. Like watching them play as scum in KWN. It's off-putting.
Feel free to compare that against a game where I was town. Besides, in that game my objective was to destroy the mafia faction anyways. Consider that I might just not have the right skills for this game.
Post by: notquitethere on May 12, 2022, 07:53:56 pm
I think it's likely Onyx will rely in part on ability tricks. The most likely scenario I think is the the council has 1 Onyx, 2 Jade, and so with 7 voters, 5 of them Jade, they'd still be outnumbered if the Jade votes are more or less evenly split.
Ppe: Egan, tell me what scum's strategy most likely will be
Post by: Egan_BW on May 12, 2022, 07:56:19 pm
Ppe: Egan, tell me what scum's strategy most likely will beVoting cabal for emperor and not court?
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 12, 2022, 07:59:28 pm
Ppe: Egan, tell me what scum's strategy most likely will beVoting cabal for emperor and not court?
Sounds legit
Post by: notquitethere on May 12, 2022, 08:02:54 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 12, 2022, 08:21:15 pm
And they cast their first votes.
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 1: Maximum Spin
Roden - 0
Jim Groovester - 3: EuchreJack, Jim Groovester, Egan_BW
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 0
notquitethere - 4: notquitethere, ToonyMan, webadict, Roden
webadict - 0
reina - 1: reina
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (1): Knightwing64
As usual, please correct me if you notice any errors in the votecount.
As a reminder, Day 1 will end 8 PM Central time, Monday the 16th. That's around four days from now, two if you don't count weekends.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 09:36:27 pm
I am serious, though, I think having ToonyMan nominated Day 3 is a good idea.I mean, I approve of course.
I'm going to keep supporting Jim, as I see Jim as slightly townleaning whereas NQT as scummy.I don't understand this logic. Doesn't NQT look better than Jim here?
Eh, forgetaboutit!Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
I could see scum and town notquitethere both making that post, but I think town notquitethere more readily and easily makes that post than scum notquitethere does. Really I'd say any town player in general more readily makes that post than any scum player does. It comes across as fun rather than a careful and calculated move to advance an agenda.I strongly agree. I think scum!NQT would be much more cowardly.
As for Cabal, my role PM doesn't mention the word. I do see the enemy faction is called the Onyx Cabal, so maybe I didn't understand Toonyman's post.I think Webadict is being serious about wanting to nominate me. If Webadict is part of the Onyx Cabal then he must also nominate himself or another one of his members or he will lose the game.
@Toonyman: What did you mean by your statement? I think I might understand, but maybe you can clarify for me?
Post by: Roden on May 12, 2022, 09:42:31 pm
I feel like this got ignored. I see Jim as being pretty good at the game and not being liable to scum slip like that, but this looks glaringly like a slip.Uh... Like, I don't wanna be meta, but... Well...Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Reread your role PM and come back to me on that one.
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 09:44:59 pm
Shhhh...I feel like this got ignored. I see Jim as being pretty good at the game and not being liable to scum slip like that, but this looks glaringly like a slip.Uh... Like, I don't wanna be meta, but... Well...Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Reread your role PM and come back to me on that one.
Yeah, so anyway, Roden and Euchre are Town, obvs.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 09:48:06 pm
Tin Foil Hat TimeI find the sequence odd, but wouldn't this imply that Jim is Onyx Cabal?
Is this sequence organic??Jim GroovesterJim GroovesterJim Groovester
science
analysisMe like.
My impression is that Web is implying that Jack townslipped. I somewhat agree depending on how much I want to over or under estimate Jack.I feel like this got ignored. I see Jim as being pretty good at the game and not being liable to scum slip like that, but this looks glaringly like a slip.Uh... Like, I don't wanna be meta, but... Well...Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Reread your role PM and come back to me on that one.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 09:51:31 pm
This is some big brain shit.Sounds legitPpe: Egan, tell me what scum's strategy most likely will beVoting cabal for emperor and not court?
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 09:57:10 pm
I actually have an additional Sect condition that makes it only "slightly" more difficult to win: I cannot be nominated. Apologies for not making this known earlier, but I figured it wasn't a big deal, and I also didn't want to detract from the conversation, but I realized that it's probably important that I mention it.
However, I'm fairly certain that EuchreJack and Roden are Town, so I would absolutely be down to nominate both of them.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 10:13:00 pm
Which one if you could only nominate one? Jack or Roden?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 12, 2022, 10:19:37 pm
Uh... Like, I don't wanna be meta, but... Well...Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Reread your role PM and come back to me on that one.
I assume that Onyx Cabal members have their role PMs say Onyx Cabal within, so I was hoping I could trick EuchreJack into revealing his alignment by asking him to verify his role PM had Cabal within it.
I only do this with EuchreJack because I think he might be the only player who might ever fall for it.
You don't think so? I dunno, Roden seems fine to me. What's bothering you about Roden?Roden is probably Town! Also, a good Day 1 candidate in case the whole NQT thing isn't floating boats, but that's a discussion for later. (I will mark his name in green to show support for him as a Day 1 candidate.)
I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying but advancing Roden as a viable candidate makes me uncomfortable since I don't share the same opinion about Roden as of yet.
Roden's first post set me on edge because while it was perfectly rational it presented EuchreJack as key to resolving this game, which makes me suspicious since it presents one player in particular before he even posted and thus it appeared to me like it was advancing an agenda or a stratagy versus a genuinely town impulse.
He hasn't really made an impression on me since his first post.
sect
How many people are in your sect?
Do you have a different win condition than other Jade Court players?
I've been avoiding bringing up sect related questions since they're more or less pseudo third parties who might make it difficult to identify the Onyx Cabal and there was no guarantee they existed but here you are.
I also need to ask that you're aware of the rules regarding sects in this game and that it's possibly members of the Onyx Cabal have infiltrated them, correct?
Jim
Finally some more content for the meme thread!
Heh, not like it wasn't my thread anyway.
Is this sequence organic??
I'm an organic part of it at least. Can't say anything about everybody else.
Max I'm townreading at the moment. Fun open, albeit a bit touchy about being scumread for getting in the thread later (NAI?)To put a finer point on it, you stole my move. I'm the legitimate heir, so I should have been campaigning like that, but you got there first and stole all the voters. So I was annoyed that you changed the context for me.
How can you be the legitimate heir and not already emperor, huh???????????????
Also, I decided I should add, we can't really assume that the Onyx are fully coordinated either. The last few games have been ones where the mafia didn't often work together well, for various reasons, don't you think? To be fair, in the TricMagic game, they didn't have a chat, but even some times when they did have chats, there hasn't been much coordination. We should obviously be aware of the possibility of such a strategy, but we shouldn't ignore interpretations where the Onyx are just working at odds to each other by accident, or one (or more) might not be paying enough attention to have followed orders yet. For example, a hypothetical scum member who hasn't been around much or has only been posting superficially might be voting, or not voting, according to outdated information.
I'd expect a lot more coordination come Day 3, since if the Cabal don't have a nominated player then they have to push one of their own for nomination, otherwise they lose.
So… can someone brief me in on the general game plan here? I don’t understand all the technical mambo jumbo stuff
VOTE TOWN
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 12, 2022, 10:21:34 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 10:23:04 pm
Votes Unused (1): Knightwing64Knightwing, why aren't you voting??
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 10:27:39 pm
I'm drunk and don't plan to stop drinking so ask me whatever.Tell us your cabal partners.
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 10:35:42 pm
Dude, straight for the jugular.I'm drunk and don't plan to stop drinking so ask me whatever.Tell us your cabal partners.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 10:43:37 pm
On a continued think, I find this very interesting. Why hasn't Knightwing voted yet? They've been around and posting. I'm fairly sure they would have voted now, even themselves, but they haven't. Is this reservation because they don't know who to follow? But they also haven't voted themselves, maybe because they aren't confident they could win a nomination?Votes Unused (1): Knightwing64Knightwing, why aren't you voting??
What are you thinking Knightwing?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 12, 2022, 10:47:48 pm
I'm drunk and don't plan to stop drinking so ask me whatever.Tell us your cabal partners.
Not a cabal member.
But ask me in a couple of beers and I'll tell you the same answer.
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 10:50:09 pm
Just two, but I'll let the other person decide if they want to reveal or not, since it may or may not be disadvantageous if we're both Town unless it becomes an issue. Since (I assume) we both have the same restriction, it's not a big deal if I think they're Town or not, but I am pretty sure I have the same win condition as normal Jade Court other than that restriction?sect
How many people are in your sect?
Do you have a different win condition than other Jade Court players?
I've been avoiding bringing up sect related questions since they're more or less pseudo third parties who might make it difficult to identify the Onyx Cabal and there was no guarantee they existed but here you are.
I also need to ask that you're aware of the rules regarding sects in this game and that it's possibly members of the Onyx Cabal have infiltrated them, correct?
I just figured I'd mention it because, well, they didn't, and I didn't want to have to explain why I'm fighting a nomination later on in the game.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 10:51:45 pm
That makes sense. I believe your claim.Hm, this brings up a good point. Since Roden hopefully sees me as town, and I see Roden as town, it might make some sense if only one of us were nominated, as we need the other one to vote us in the final election. Then again, three Jade nominees means a win, so nominating Roden who now has the Mandate of Heaven.
Which one if you could only nominate one? Jack or Roden?
Jim, I think, has lost the Mandate of Heaven.
NQT is looking better, but is not quite as solid in my eyes. I love the graph, even though I don't know what it means.
I'm assuming NQT's animosity towards me is due to the animosity I've shown them. Plus the fact I'm taking away from their nomination.
Post by: reina on May 12, 2022, 10:52:40 pm
Guys, I'm going to reveal something, because it's partway through Day 1, and for some reason I have a propensity to do dumb shit at this point:Interesting. Does the role specify what happens to votes for you at the end of the day?
I actually have an additional Sect condition that makes it only "slightly" more difficult to win: I cannot be nominated. Apologies for not making this known earlier, but I figured it wasn't a big deal, and I also didn't want to detract from the conversation, but I realized that it's probably important that I mention it.
However, I'm fairly certain that EuchreJack and Roden are Town, so I would absolutely be down to nominate both of them.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 12, 2022, 10:54:41 pm
Does your win condition require you to be nominated or elected Emperor?Max I'm townreading at the moment. Fun open, albeit a bit touchy about being scumread for getting in the thread later (NAI?)To put a finer point on it, you stole my move. I'm the legitimate heir, so I should have been campaigning like that, but you got there first and stole all the voters. So I was annoyed that you changed the context for me.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 10:57:29 pm
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 11:01:01 pm
That makes sense. I believe your claim.Hmm... Not sure. I'll probably change my mind later on, but I think I'm leaning Euchre at this moment, buuuuut it's close.
Which one if you could only nominate one? Jack or Roden?
I may have ambiguously worded that. I cannot be chosen for nomination. My mistake.Guys, I'm going to reveal something, because it's partway through Day 1, and for some reason I have a propensity to do dumb shit at this point:Interesting. Does the role specify what happens to votes for you at the end of the day?
I actually have an additional Sect condition that makes it only "slightly" more difficult to win: I cannot be nominated. Apologies for not making this known earlier, but I figured it wasn't a big deal, and I also didn't want to detract from the conversation, but I realized that it's probably important that I mention it.
However, I'm fairly certain that EuchreJack and Roden are Town, so I would absolutely be down to nominate both of them.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 12, 2022, 11:02:45 pm
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 11:07:26 pm
What happens then? Does second place win the nomination?I still get selected, I just cannot win.
Post by: reina on May 12, 2022, 11:12:24 pm
What happens then? Does second place win the nomination?I still get selected, I just cannot win.
Still unclear on this maybe. Are you saying that the rules themselves will stop you from being nominated/elected, or are you saying that getting nominated violates your wincondition?
Post by: webadict on May 12, 2022, 11:24:51 pm
My win condition is to not be selected.What happens then? Does second place win the nomination?I still get selected, I just cannot win.
Still unclear on this maybe. Are you saying that the rules themselves will stop you from being nominated/elected, or are you saying that getting nominated violates your wincondition?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 13, 2022, 12:28:37 am
I'm drunk and don't plan to stop drinking so ask me whatever.
SOMEBODY FIGHT ME
Post by: Roden on May 13, 2022, 01:51:29 am
Guys, I'm going to reveal something, because it's partway through Day 1, and for some reason I have a propensity to do dumb shit at this point:
I actually have an additional Sect condition that makes it only "slightly" more difficult to win: I cannot be nominated. Apologies for not making this known earlier, but I figured it wasn't a big deal, and I also didn't want to detract from the conversation, but I realized that it's probably important that I mention it.
However, I'm fairly certain that EuchreJack and Roden are Town, so I would absolutely be down to nominate both of them.
If this is true, I think your sect is effectively a pair of Masons. Looking at the Cabal wincon, they can win if all three of them get nominated, but that's impossible with your Sect wincon. That doesn't seem fair to prevent the mafia from being able to achieve a perfect victory. So looking at it from a mechanical perspective, you would have to be town here.What happens then? Does second place win the nomination?I still get selected, I just cannot win.
Post by: Roden on May 13, 2022, 02:15:43 am
I could actually see Jack pretending to not understand the game in order to get town read. Jack isn't dumb, he's frantic and paranoid. Dumb tells just aren't his thing and it makes me hesitant to town read him for that. I don't feel confident voting him today because of that, I'd rather give it another day phase in case he is mafia and is getting coached in the private chat.My impression is that Web is implying that Jack townslipped. I somewhat agree depending on how much I want to over or under estimate Jack.I feel like this got ignored. I see Jim as being pretty good at the game and not being liable to scum slip like that, but this looks glaringly like a slip.Uh... Like, I don't wanna be meta, but... Well...Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.@Toony: WTF is a Cabal?
Reread your role PM and come back to me on that one.
Post by: reina on May 13, 2022, 03:36:29 am
Sure, why not.I'm drunk and don't plan to stop drinking so ask me whatever.
SOMEBODY FIGHT ME
This response feels off to me:
I agree with webby here, you seemed pretty quick to accept Jack's nomination. We all do have reasons for wanting to be nominated, but keeping an eye out for coordination is going to be important.Jim Groovester is... probably Town? Nothing Jim is saying is inherently wrong. I'm not a fan of him voting for himself when EuchreJack voted for him, but I understand the logic behind it.
I think objecting to anybody for a self-vote is kind of weird since at best it's not alignment indicative and at worst it's also not alignment indicative. Both town and scum have reasons for why they wish to be nominated.
Here is where you changed your vote (previously placed on NQT):
Everyone who had self voted up to that point had done so unprompted (myself, @NQT, @Egan_BW, @Maximum Spin to be specific).But first...
Nominate Jim Groovester
Why? Well, if Jim is town, then Jim will have great insights...and probably will bungle the vote. So, let's get him out of the way. The Nomination process will hopefully put enough spotlight on Jim to ascertain whether or not Jim is town.
lmao fair enough
Jim Groovester
If scum wanted to pick up momentum for nomination, it would make a lot of sense for them to not start it with a self vote. Instead saving that as an easy way to jump on your own bandwagon.
Speaking of, @egan_BW also ended up voting for you just two posts later.
3 votes for you at this point, and between the three of them we don't have many concrete reasons offered as to why. Jack's has said the most, but his reasoning feels vague to me.
At this point, I'm not very interested in voting for you and I think the town might want to watch those that are.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 13, 2022, 05:14:22 am
Yep, the sect seem like innocent children we can't nominate.Guys, I'm going to reveal something, because it's partway through Day 1, and for some reason I have a propensity to do dumb shit at this point:
I actually have an additional Sect condition that makes it only "slightly" more difficult to win: I cannot be nominated. Apologies for not making this known earlier, but I figured it wasn't a big deal, and I also didn't want to detract from the conversation, but I realized that it's probably important that I mention it.
However, I'm fairly certain that EuchreJack and Roden are Town, so I would absolutely be down to nominate both of them.If this is true, I think your sect is effectively a pair of Masons. Looking at the Cabal wincon, they can win if all three of them get nominated, but that's impossible with your Sect wincon. That doesn't seem fair to prevent the mafia from being able to achieve a perfect victory. So looking at it from a mechanical perspective, you would have to be town here.What happens then? Does second place win the nomination?I still get selected, I just cannot win.
Post by: reina on May 13, 2022, 05:21:10 am
---
@EuchreJack: started with some good posts, but i am not convinced the Jim campaigning is entirely innocent
I'm going to keep supporting Jim, as I see Jim as slightly townleaning whereas NQT as scummy.How do you feel about Jim and Egan joining you? What might it take to change your vote today?
---
@Maximum Spin: started with a flavored self-vote and hasn't done much of substance
I also agree about the new guy. #1 scumpick.I think this was about me: Is this still the case? As your #1 scumpick, you don't seem too interested in asking me questions.
Also, I decided I should add, we can't really assume that the Onyx are fully coordinated either. The last few games have been ones where the mafia didn't often work together well, for various reasons, don't you think? To be fair, in the TricMagic game, they didn't have a chat, but even some times when they did have chats, there hasn't been much coordination.This feels like an attempt to downplay scummy behavior in general. I'm not informed enough to know whats been going on with chats lately, or what happened in TricMagic. But it seems to me that explicit communication/order structure isn't necessary for the Cabal to campaign for each other. Knowing who each other are is like 90% of the information they need to coordinate in plain view.
---
@Roden: potentially a night cop? recent posts have focused on the sect stuff and EuchreJack
Are you a night cop? Do you plan on sharing results on day 2?
---
@Jim Groovester: see last post, has been active in discussions but I don't see much hunting or strategizing
---
@Egan_BW: self-vote followed by Jim vote.
Why change your vote? Did you stop being town at some point?So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?
Vote town instead of scum.
Great idea! If we all just do that then there's no way we can lose~
Egan_BW
How do you feel about the other people currently voting for Jim? Do you agree with Jack's reasoning?
---
@Knightwing64: nice first-post grab for day 1, hasn't been very active. You haven't voted yet, which is fine IMO. I'm basically parking my vote on myself so I can't judge.
What are your current plans for voting? Do you have anybody in mind?
---
@notquitethere: a very convincing opening that felt somewhat alignment-neutral, picked up on the same coordination I described in my last post. detailed reading posts, good cabal strategy strategy insight
Nobody seems to have responded to this so I'll ask what those claims were. Is there something about your role that you were hinting at?NQT is a terrible candidate because I think this whole "running as a candidate" is a way to "hide in plain sight". NQT doesn't have to scumhunt as they can instead post about what a great candidate they would be. Fluffy posts with no substance.My post was meant to be funny, but it wasn't fluffy. I made two substantive claims. Can you tell me what those were?
How do you feel about leading the vote tally? Are there any scenarios where you would ask your supporters to vote someone else today?
---
@webadict: readings seem well reasoned so far. I'm not sure how to feel about the sect reveal. currently voting NQT but considering EJ and Roden.
You mentioned reading me as town. Would you consider voting for me?
Do you think they should reveal themselves? In what scenarios might you decide to unmask them yourself?Just two, but I'll let the other person decide if they want to reveal or not, since it may or may not be disadvantageous if we're both Town unless it becomes an issue. Since (I assume) we both have the same restriction, it's not a big deal if I think they're Town or not, but I am pretty sure I have the same win condition as normal Jade Court other than that restriction?sectHow many people are in your sect?
---
@ToonyMan: first to join the NQT bandwagon. has been actively hunting
It's probably much easier for scum to make that opening if they know their buddy is going to immediately join and defend them ;)I could see scum and town notquitethere both making that post, but I think town notquitethere more readily and easily makes that post than scum notquitethere does. Really I'd say any town player in general more readily makes that post than any scum player does. It comes across as fun rather than a careful and calculated move to advance an agenda.I strongly agree. I think scum!NQT would be much more cowardly.
Will you be keeping your vote on NQT? Are you considering anybody else?
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 13, 2022, 05:35:14 am
Post by: reina on May 13, 2022, 05:39:43 am
My current plans for voting is to probably jump on the bandwagon. I feel like I should wait a little bit before casting my vote thoughWhich one? The Jim voters and NQT voters could probably both be described as bandwagons.
Unless things get shook up in the next couple days, your vote (as well as mine) might be the tiebreaking vote(s).
Post by: reina on May 13, 2022, 05:50:06 am
As a wise woman of the forest, I commune with the spirits. They foretold the emperors demise.
Until our deliberations end tonight I will be
Post by: ToonyMan on May 13, 2022, 05:55:33 am
I still support NQT.
How about we propose councils?
I'm most comfortable with myself, NQT, Knightwing.
Post by: reina on May 13, 2022, 06:00:57 am
Until our deliberations end tonight I will be petitioning for your support. If at the end my vote is needed I will pick whichever seems more town.
Post by: reina on May 13, 2022, 06:10:16 am
@Reina:I think the town read on NQT is fair, not there myself yet but I can see it.
I still support NQT.
How about we propose councils?
I'm most comfortable with myself, NQT, Knightwing.
Whats your read on the 2 other people voting like you (webadict,Roden), are they doing it for the same reasons?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 13, 2022, 06:59:09 am
In other words there's a good chance both are town and have a town motive in mind. If they both agree on NQT then that's a strong support base to follow through on.
I propose myself because I can be nominated and am town.
I propose Knightwing as a point of neutrality: They have shown no strong will towards anyone or even themselves. This is not the case for any other player here.
I would like to hear from each player their own ideal council, if they would please.
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 07:17:18 am
@webadict: readings seem well reasoned so far. I'm not sure how to feel about the sect reveal. currently voting NQT but considering EJ and Roden.As much fin as it would be to keep my vote on NQT, I will agree that you are a great Day 1 vote.
You mentioned reading me as town. Would you consider voting for me?Do you think they should reveal themselves? In what scenarios might you decide to unmask them yourself?Just two, but I'll let the other person decide if they want to reveal or not, since it may or may not be disadvantageous if we're both Town unless it becomes an issue. Since (I assume) we both have the same restriction, it's not a big deal if I think they're Town or not, but I am pretty sure I have the same win condition as normal Jade Court other than that restriction?sectHow many people are in your sect?
---
@ToonyMan: first to join the NQT bandwagon. has been actively huntingIt's probably much easier for scum to make that opening if they know their buddy is going to immediately join and defend them ;)I could see scum and town notquitethere both making that post, but I think town notquitethere more readily and easily makes that post than scum notquitethere does. Really I'd say any town player in general more readily makes that post than any scum player does. It comes across as fun rather than a careful and calculated move to advance an agenda.I strongly agree. I think scum!NQT would be much more cowardly.
Will you be keeping your vote on NQT? Are you considering anybody else?
My council would probably be reina, EuchreJack and ToonyMan, with reina as my emperor vote if it got to that.
ToonyMan is seeing everything I'm seeing (but now it's scaring me a little), EuchreJack is still giving me strong Town vibes, and reina is just playing out of their minds, so I like it.
Roden, would you like to claim as my Sectbuddy? I mean, only if you don't plan on being nominated. ;)
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 07:23:58 am
My Sectbuddy will reveal themselves or not. It's an action with consequence in that they may be more visible and have more vocal power, but also comes with more criticism and skepticism. Otherwise, I see no need for me to do so unless it becomes an issue.
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 07:26:50 am
@Reina:I'm uncomfortable with this cabinet because it puts you as the most Townie player in it, and I'd rather have a more Townie alternative than Knightwing.
I still support NQT.
How about we propose councils?
I'm most comfortable with myself, NQT, Knightwing.
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 07:36:55 am
If this is true, I think your sect is effectively a pair of Masons. Looking at the Cabal wincon, they can win if all three of them get nominated, but that's impossible with your Sect wincon. That doesn't seem fair to prevent the mafia from being able to achieve a perfect victory. So looking at it from a mechanical perspective, you would have to be town here.I mean, if they are Onyx, then the game still ends in a victory for their team, just not for them, but I kind of agree.
I could actually see Jack pretending to not understand the game in order to get town read. Jack isn't dumb, he's frantic and paranoid. Dumb tells just aren't his thing and it makes me hesitant to town read him for that. I don't feel confident voting him today because of that, I'd rather give it another day phase in case he is mafia and is getting coached in the private chat.I suppose that's fair, but there's some solid evidence that Jack is more likely Town-sided than not.
Anyway, what's your take on reina? Do you think they're Town as well?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 13, 2022, 07:40:37 am
Post by: reina on May 13, 2022, 09:14:21 am
I would like to hear from each player their own ideal council, if they would please.Not entirely sure what you mean by "council" here. If you are just asking who my current strongest town reads are, then I don't think i have an answer yet. I'd first like to see how some more people respond to my questions.
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 09:15:25 am
Your three preferred nomination choices.I would like to hear from each player their own ideal council, if they would please.Not entirely sure what you mean by "council" here. If you are just asking who my current strongest town reads are, then I don't think i have an answer yet. I'd first like to see how some more people respond to my questions.
Post by: reina on May 13, 2022, 09:33:49 am
Ahhh, then I think I'm torn between two approaches:Your three preferred nomination choices.I would like to hear from each player their own ideal council, if they would please.Not entirely sure what you mean by "council" here. If you are just asking who my current strongest town reads are, then I don't think i have an answer yet. I'd first like to see how some more people respond to my questions.
A: me + my two highest town reads. From my math earlier we have a 29% overall chance of electing 3 townies. Trying to target the 3-town win condition might be the right way to go. But its easy to doubt my own abilities to read town. Especially after not playing for so long.
B: me + literally whoever. Maybe even scum. As other people have pointed out, 2 scum on the council will reduce their voting power significantly. Might be vulnerable to cabal abilities though.
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 10:24:53 am
Okay, then pick one set for each.Ahhh, then I think I'm torn between two approaches:Your three preferred nomination choices.I would like to hear from each player their own ideal council, if they would please.Not entirely sure what you mean by "council" here. If you are just asking who my current strongest town reads are, then I don't think i have an answer yet. I'd first like to see how some more people respond to my questions.
A: me + my two highest town reads. From my math earlier we have a 29% overall chance of electing 3 townies. Trying to target the 3-town win condition might be the right way to go. But its easy to doubt my own abilities to read town. Especially after not playing for so long.
B: me + literally whoever. Maybe even scum. As other people have pointed out, 2 scum on the council will reduce their voting power significantly. Might be vulnerable to cabal abilities though.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 13, 2022, 10:52:30 am
Your three preferred nomination choices.I would like to hear from each player their own ideal council, if they would please.Not entirely sure what you mean by "council" here. If you are just asking who my current strongest town reads are, then I don't think i have an answer yet. I'd first like to see how some more people respond to my questions.
Uhhh….Hmm, Notquitethere, toony and web?
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 11:12:33 am
Rude.Your three preferred nomination choices.I would like to hear from each player their own ideal council, if they would please.Not entirely sure what you mean by "council" here. If you are just asking who my current strongest town reads are, then I don't think i have an answer yet. I'd first like to see how some more people respond to my questions.
Uhhh….Hmm, Notquitethere, toony and web?
Post by: notquitethere on May 13, 2022, 11:17:05 am
EuchreJack
You're able to talk about me, but not too me, huh. Here's a question you missed:
Quote
I made two substantive claims [in my opening post]. Can you tell me what those were?
Reina, I'll get back to you after EJ has responded to this.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 13, 2022, 01:52:01 pm
I could actually see Jack pretending to not understand the game in order to get town read. Jack isn't dumb, he's frantic and paranoid. Dumb tells just aren't his thing and it makes me hesitant to town read him for that. I don't feel confident voting him today because of that, I'd rather give it another day phase in case he is mafia and is getting coached in the private chat.
A cautious opinion about EuchreJack. I like this!
How about we propose councils?
Me, NQT, ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I probably say wooba here but he's taken himself out of the nomination.
I probably pick Roden, and then Maximum Spin and you. Not feeling reina or EuchreJack really. Not feeling Knightwing64 or Egan_BW either.
My council would probably be reina, EuchreJack and ToonyMan, with reina as my emperor vote if it got to that.
I think you're probably town but it's weird how far apart our reads are.
notquitethere
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 02:02:27 pm
I mean, I'm on the same wavelength for Knightwing and Egan, so it's not that different. I'm just more against Maximum Spin.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 02:52:22 pm
Why You Should Nominate NotQuiteThere
(http://i.postimg.cc/ZRkTCfJf/YUd4AYp.png)
He is handsome but mysterious
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/%E8%9C%80%E6%B1%89%E4%B8%9E%E7%9B%B8%E5%BF%A0%E6%AD%A6%E4%BE%AF%E8%AF%B8%E8%91%9B%E4%BA%AE.jpg/200px-%E8%9C%80%E6%B1%89%E4%B8%9E%E7%9B%B8%E5%BF%A0%E6%AD%A6%E4%BE%AF%E8%AF%B8%E8%91%9B%E4%BA%AE.jpg)
His character role is heroic and wise
(https://www.wargaming3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/The-Confused-General-sample.jpg)
He has no idea who the good or bad guys are so would not be best placed among the electorate
I only see the second part as a reveal. I have no fucking clue what it means. So, to NQT's "question", I see nothing. As to why I didn't respond, again I see nothing.
@NQT: I know you're a political candidate, but could you try to talk straight about your so-called "reveal"?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 03:01:01 pm
Web is clearly buddying me.
Roden, who I actually trust as Town, is suspicious of me.
Jim, whom I originally supported, seems to be getting scummier. But the "Come Fight Me" is very Town!Jim behavior. Then going all chicken shit, again very Town!Jim behavior. So who is pushing Jim as scum? Are they doing it honestly?
Reina...is behind the Eightball.
@Reina: I switched my vote to Roden, so your question is irrelevant.
Knightwing64 may actually be playing this round.
Max is being heavily scum read...as usual when Max is Town.
Toony hasn't shown typical town!Toony behavior. I should probably start going after Toonyman....
If I forgot someone, they're probably scum.
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 03:01:38 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 03:05:30 pm
And I forgot Egan. I stand by my theory that forgettable players are scum, since scum don't want attention under the standard lurking strategy.
(Also I am posting off phone)
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 03:12:05 pm
@Toony: Could you please stop making up new terms without explaining them? Or, you know, try explaining things more in general?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 03:14:59 pm
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 05:00:37 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 13, 2022, 05:09:07 pm
@Toony: Could you please stop making up new terms without explaining them? Or, you know, try explaining things more in general?Did you like... not read the OP?
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 13, 2022, 07:54:29 pm
Also, I feel like someone hasn’t posted in a while but I can’t put my figure on who.
Also also, Is it just me, or does web not seem very webby?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 13, 2022, 08:18:15 pm
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 1: Maximum Spin
Roden - 0
Jim Groovester - 1: Egan_BW
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 0
notquitethere - 4: notquitethere, ToonyMan, Roden, Jim Groovester
webadict - 0
reina - 3: reina, webadict, EuchreJack
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (1): Knightwing64
The Day will end Monday, May 16th, at 8 PM Central time - approximately 3 days from now.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 08:32:42 pm
It's mostly that you seem a bit angrier than usual, and it feels a bit uncharacteristic....but I'm ALWAYS Angry. >:(
But it doesn't help in being persuasive, so I'll try to keep it more in check.
I seem to be missing more of the intricate details in the OP than usual.@Toony: Could you please stop making up new terms without explaining them? Or, you know, try explaining things more in general?Did you like... not read the OP?
After responding to Toonyman, it occurred to me that he was referring to the "Jade Council" from the OP. It could have been made clearer, though. And I'm scumreading Toonyman for that.
Huh, don’t think I’ve ever seen Jack angry before, kinda weird.I'd be interested in whom you feel like hasn't been posting in a while. You should figure that out, and start poking them.
Also, I feel like someone hasn’t posted in a while but I can’t put my figure on who.
Also also, Is it just me, or does web not seem very webby?
Also, what posts from web seem not very webby? I'd like to scrutinize them, as I'm sure others do as well.
Also also, could you vote for someone, so we at least have an idea of whom you support? Or say whom you might support when you vote?
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2022, 08:41:34 pm
Reina
I know that I missed at least one question and also I didn't read all the posts but I don't care very much right now so deal with it.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 13, 2022, 08:43:02 pm
Let's see what happens now.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 13, 2022, 08:52:35 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 09:09:14 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 13, 2022, 09:39:10 pm
@Toony: Could you please stop making up new terms without explaining them? Or, you know, try explaining things more in general?I don't know what you mean.
Also also, Is it just me, or does web not seem very webby?Web has felt very Webby.
I seem to be missing more of the intricate details in the OP than usual.This is a bad reason to scumread someone.
After responding to Toonyman, it occurred to me that he was referring to the "Jade Council" from the OP. It could have been made clearer, though. And I'm scumreading Toonyman for that.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 09:42:42 pm
Agreed that it is a bad reason to scumread someone, but I think it is a swell reason to scumread you.I seem to be missing more of the intricate details in the OP than usual.This is a bad reason to scumread someone.
After responding to Toonyman, it occurred to me that he was referring to the "Jade Council" from the OP. It could have been made clearer, though. And I'm scumreading Toonyman for that.
Post by: notquitethere on May 13, 2022, 09:54:40 pm
I'm assuming NQT's animosity towards me is due to the animosity I've shown them. Plus the fact I'm taking away from their nomination.Well it doesn't help, I'm a sensitive soul... but I find you suspicious because you keep saying suspicious things!
Take this:
Well, from my point of view, this means at least one Onyx Cabal member is voting for NQT...Two things here:
1. "from my point of view" makes it seem like you want to reiterate your Jadeness, as if it were in doubt at that moment
2. There are are four people not voting me, yourself included. There are 3 cabal members... it's possible that if you were Jade that the three Onyx weren't on me. Don't get me wrong, I think it's likely thee are Onyx lying low on my wagon... but the maths doesn't add up for a Jade saying with certainty that there's a 100% Jade amongst reina/wuba/egan. Like, what do you know that I don't?
Scum slip, much?
I only see the second part as a reveal. I have no fucking clue what it means. So, to NQT's "question", I see nothing. As to why I didn't respond, again I see nothing.I'm saying I have a specific character role, which may be important if there are role cops or whatever. And I'm saying I have no special information at the start of the game and that putting me on the council won't prevent me from using some day action that could give me special information. All that's pretty straightforward to infer.
@NQT: I know you're a political candidate, but could you try to talk straight about your so-called "reveal"?
reina
Nobody seems to have responded to this so I'll ask what those claims were. Is there something about your role that you were hinting at?See above.
How do you feel about leading the vote tally? Are there any scenarios where you would ask your supporters to vote someone else today?I am pleased I am leading the vote tally, I put myself forward for the council for precisely this reason. I could only see myself calling for someone else to get the nomination today if there were some ability that changed my understanding of the situation. My goal today (as it will be every day) is to get Jade onto the council, and so the most straightforward way of doing that is getting myself on the council to begin with.
How about you, would there be anything that would make you decide not to run as a candidate?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 13, 2022, 10:05:54 pm
EuchreJackI'm assuming NQT's animosity towards me is due to the animosity I've shown them. Plus the fact I'm taking away from their nomination.Well it doesn't help, I'm a sensitive soul... but I find you suspicious because you keep saying suspicious things!
Take this:Well, from my point of view, this means at least one Onyx Cabal member is voting for NQT...Two things here:
1. "from my point of view" makes it seem like you want to reiterate your Jadeness, as if it were in doubt at that moment
2. There are are four people not voting me, yourself included. There are 3 cabal members... it's possible that if you were Jade that the three Onyx weren't on me. Don't get me wrong, I think it's likely thee are Onyx lying low on my wagon... but the maths doesn't add up for a Jade saying with certainty that there's a 100% Jade amongst reina/wuba/egan. Like, what do you know that I don't?
Scum slip, much?
I ignored Egan_BW again. This time, I failed to include their voting in the players voting Reina, as it occurred after the official vote count.
I of course was referring to myself as the 100% Jade. Still think your wagon is filled with Onyx, and you are self-voting...
...yeah, I didn't get that.I only see the second part as a reveal. I have no fucking clue what it means. So, to NQT's "question", I see nothing. As to why I didn't respond, again I see nothing.I'm saying I have a specific character role, which may be important if there are role cops or whatever. And I'm saying I have no special information at the start of the game and that putting me on the council won't prevent me from using some day action that could give me special information. All that's pretty straightforward to infer.
@NQT: I know you're a political candidate, but could you try to talk straight about your so-called "reveal"?
Actually, I thought your comment about not knowing the parties was the same as the comment I made when proposing Jim about not knowing the Onyx from the Jade. In other words, best to get you as a nominee since you can't be counted on to vote correctly.
...I feel like my campaign promise should be to shut up if nominated.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 13, 2022, 10:10:08 pm
*vote tallies and sheets of paper fly through the air*
Spoiler: Breaking News! Some Players Still Haven't Given Their Proposed Teams (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on May 13, 2022, 10:12:02 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 13, 2022, 10:17:06 pm
It's interesting Jim calls this the boring ending and wants to elect an emperor. I wonder if he has a sect wincon related to electing the emperor.
Anyway my current Jade picks would be:
(https://i.imgur.com/Tpq86J8.png)
notquitethere, pacifier of the Moon Barbarians, vanquisher of Fell Ocean Deep Ones, Bane of the Onyx Cabal
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/306758456998887429/846139100679766046/unknown.png)
Toonyman, a Medical Doctor
(https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/the-question-dc-comics.jpg)
Roden, man of mystery, has been on the forum almost exactly a year and still doesn't even have an avatar
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 10:18:02 pm
So, instead, I'm gonna ask that you guys assume neutrality at worst, for now. I don't care if you guys think each other are scum for now, but I'm gonna need that energy for later. Now is the selection phase.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 13, 2022, 10:28:52 pm
You think they're so far apart? I don't. I'm just putting greater weight on other aspects. I think being cautious about EuchreJack is fine, I guess. It's a very carefree attitude about it, though, and I think I'd want more reasoning behind it. Being cautious about reina seems a bit sillier to me, since I think it undermines the amount of effort they're putting in. For the most part, reina has put forth some very Townlike responses and effort. Perhaps you're letting an initial reaction cloud your judgment?
I mean, I'm on the same wavelength for Knightwing and Egan, so it's not that different. I'm just more against Maximum Spin.
I reread the thread earlier today. Other players have made observations about EuchreJack's opening being forced and I see where they're coming from on that one. I also observed that EuchreJack wasn't being his normal hyper panicked self as well.
...until today when he started being a nonsensical paranoid mess again.
Nothing reina has said or done is objectionable, but the way they're posting is careful and controlled and deliberate. This makes it difficult for me to confidently say that they are town since it appears to me they are making efforts to avoid being read. This is probably just a style difference that I'm not very keen on.
Effort and engagement is always nice but it also doesn't favorably change my read that much.
I dunno, I was seeing NQT as more town, but now they're trying to smear me, so I'm scum reading them again.
You're supposed to outgrow the OMGUS within your first three games.
Huh, don’t think I’ve ever seen Jack angry before, kinda weird.
Also, I feel like someone hasn’t posted in a while but I can’t put my figure on who.
Also also, Is it just me, or does web not seem very webby?
I like this. You're expressing opinions about the game.
This is good. Do this more!
It's interesting Jim calls this the boring ending and wants to elect an emperor. I wonder if he has a sect wincon related to electing the emperor.
I know the Jade Council is the most optimal town outcome but it's also less exciting than crowning one player Emperor.
Post by: notquitethere on May 13, 2022, 10:37:51 pm
Also, as this game is mostly about townhunting: I don't intend to feud indefinitely, but I do find EuchreJack pretty suspect and unless things change a lot, I can't see a scenario where I'd want him on on the council.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 13, 2022, 10:42:14 pm
notquitethere, since you wondered whether the players voting me were doing it organically or not, I'm wondering what's your opinion of how they're voting now. I note that EuchreJack and Egan_BW are voting reina.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 13, 2022, 10:42:53 pm
I need clear responses from Egan, Max, NQT, Reina, and Roden for today. No peeking at final results!My ideal council is me and any two other Jade players. As I have more than two townreads, I couldn't offer any specific candidates, since it doesn't matter which is which.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 13, 2022, 10:44:31 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 13, 2022, 10:51:07 pm
You have to know that people are going to ask you who your townreads are.Yeah, probably.
Post by: notquitethere on May 13, 2022, 10:54:20 pm
Oh yeah.I think you're most likely town, I was explicitly tinfoiling before, there wasn't anything firm. But I strongly feel like there is scum between EuchreJack/Egan/reina (especially the two Es).
notquitethere, since you wondered whether the players voting me were doing it organically or not, I'm wondering what's your opinion of how they're voting now. I note that EuchreJack and Egan_BW are voting reina.
My current thought is that the scum are just going to lay low and do whatever for day 1, especially as I've had a firm lead and so they may be resigned to getting their pick in on day 2 or 3.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 13, 2022, 11:10:38 pm
OK haha, Max is deffo Onyx. That was easy.Why?
Post by: webadict on May 13, 2022, 11:14:41 pm
Also, still pretty sure EuchreJack isn't scum, but that's hard to defend why.
But Egan prooooooobably is.
Yo, who are your Townreads?You have to know that people are going to ask you who your townreads are.Yeah, probably.
Everyone's saying EuchreJack is scummy, but I'm not on that boat yet, but that's them not understanding the point. It's nooooot a big deeeeeeal. But, I won't vote him up if that's what you're worried about, geez Louise.You think they're so far apart? I don't. I'm just putting greater weight on other aspects. I think being cautious about EuchreJack is fine, I guess. It's a very carefree attitude about it, though, and I think I'd want more reasoning behind it. Being cautious about reina seems a bit sillier to me, since I think it undermines the amount of effort they're putting in. For the most part, reina has put forth some very Townlike responses and effort. Perhaps you're letting an initial reaction cloud your judgment?
I mean, I'm on the same wavelength for Knightwing and Egan, so it's not that different. I'm just more against Maximum Spin.
I reread the thread earlier today. Other players have made observations about EuchreJack's opening being forced and I see where they're coming from on that one. I also observed that EuchreJack wasn't being his normal hyper panicked self as well.
...until today when he started being a nonsensical paranoid mess again.
Nothing reina has said or done is objectionable, but the way they're posting is careful and controlled and deliberate. This makes it difficult for me to confidently say that they are town since it appears to me they are making efforts to avoid being read. This is probably just a style difference that I'm not very keen on.
Effort and engagement is always nice but it also doesn't favorably change my read that much.
reina has past precedent if you want to look up games with eduren in it. Not that I expect that, but the style is consistent. I'm still backing the reina train.
Post by: notquitethere on May 13, 2022, 11:19:57 pm
You're being opaque. You don't want to nail your colours to the mast. Why?OK haha, Max is deffo Onyx. That was easy.Why?
Web, if reina is town then scum are not attempting to get a clean sweep of 3 onyx on the court OR they're hoping for an end of day swing OR they have some sneaky power they plan to use. Like maybe they can kill a council member and force another day or something.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 13, 2022, 11:28:05 pm
I'm always like that. This is NAI. You should know that!You're being opaque. You don't want to nail your colours to the mast. Why?OK haha, Max is deffo Onyx. That was easy.Why?
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 13, 2022, 11:30:02 pm
Yo, who are your Townreads?A sample: You. Notquitethere. Roden.
Post by: notquitethere on May 13, 2022, 11:36:21 pm
Neither ToonyMan nor EuchreJack look good to me right now, but petty grumbling may also be NAI for all involved parties.
Usually, this is what scum knightwing looks like.
Do you expect five other players to have a sudden shift onto you today? If so, how are you going to achieve that?
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 13, 2022, 11:59:18 pm
No, I just checked the last game you were in and you were town and clearly able to give reads:The first one wasn't really a "read", as you can see from the second clause. Scumreads are also different from townreads for me. And to put it simply, with my read on knightwing, a much higher barrier of certainty had been crossed.Neither ToonyMan nor EuchreJack look good to me right now, but petty grumbling may also be NAI for all involved parties.Usually, this is what scum knightwing looks like.
Do you expect five other players to have a sudden shift onto you today? If so, how are you going to achieve that?
Besides, as a general rule, I don't answer indirect questions anyway. When webadict actually ASKED, I answered fine. I just gave a snarky response to the implied question.
No, I don't expect that, but it would be nice. Why don't you start it and see how it goes? Or are you too busy with your Onyx plans?
Post by: notquitethere on May 14, 2022, 12:06:31 am
Or are you too busy with your Onyx plans?You jest.
If I get elected today, on D2 are you going to run against reina or do you see yourself backing someone else at any point?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 12:11:17 am
@Max: The fact you can't even name two other players you would like to have with you on a council is highly scummy.OK haha, Max is deffo Onyx. That was easy.Why?
It looks like you want to hedge your bets by not offending anyone, AND avoid revealing who your scumbuddies might be.
If I had a gun, I'd shoot you right now.
If I had a lynch, I'd start building you a nice wagon.
NQT, while being a complete and utter ASS, is giving me town vibes. Actually, I think town!NQT does play like an asshole. It's scum!NQT that is nicer to be around.
Hey, NQT, EJ, and Toony, I'ma ask y'all not to fight because it's distracting. Personally, I think y'all Town, so it'd be better if you guys pick on literally anyone else, but your slight jabs are already enough.
So, instead, I'm gonna ask that you guys assume neutrality at worst, for now. I don't care if you guys think each other are scum for now, but I'm gonna need that energy for later. Now is the selection phase.
Since I feel Web is town, I'll listen to Web by not only avoiding the attacks on NQT, but voting NQT myself to rebuild solidarity.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 12:13:16 am
No, I just checked the last game you were in and you were town and clearly able to give reads:Neither ToonyMan nor EuchreJack look good to me right now, but petty grumbling may also be NAI for all involved parties.Usually, this is what scum knightwing looks like.
Do you expect five other players to have a sudden shift onto you today? If so, how are you going to achieve that?
notquitethere
Let's see what happens now.
See NQT, I'm not the only one that can miss things. Max is voting YOU, and reads YOU as town.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 12:14:05 am
Post by: notquitethere on May 14, 2022, 12:15:23 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 12:16:12 am
Haha no you got me there, I missed that. I should go to bed.Eh, me too.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 14, 2022, 12:27:47 am
@Max: The fact you can't even name two other players you would like to have with you on a council is highly scummy.
It looks like you want to hedge your bets by not offending anyone, AND avoid revealing who your scumbuddies might be.
If I had a gun, I'd shoot you right now.
If I had a lynch, I'd start building you a nice wagon.
I mean, I could name more, but I don't want to, because I'm trying to hedge my bets about giving away to scum whom to target, if someone I'm suspicious of is actually town.Yo, who are your Townreads?A sample: You. Notquitethere. Roden.
Like... the opposite of what you're doing right now, since I'm town, so scum has the obvious opportunity to throw mud at me to boost their own chances.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 14, 2022, 01:07:11 am
Since I feel Web is town, I'll listen to Web by not only avoiding the attacks on NQT, but voting NQT myself to rebuild solidarity.
Why notquitethere over reina?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 14, 2022, 01:36:55 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 01:46:19 am
Anybody (else) interested in a shorten? Not sure how much more movement the votes are going to have for the remainder of the day. Which ends on Monday, which is forever from now.Since I feel Web is town, I'll listen to Web by not only avoiding the attacks on NQT, but voting NQT myself to rebuild solidarity.
Why notquitethere over reina?
Trying to rebuild bridges, mostly. I doubt Reina can marshal enough support to win the Day 1 nomination.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 14, 2022, 01:55:20 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 14, 2022, 02:06:20 am
I doubt Reina can marshal enough support to win the Day 1 nomination.It's never over until the last card is played.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 02:16:03 am
Something I can say right now: This game has three players who have not shown any desire to nominate themselves. There's a couple things I can think of with this. Before that though I want to fill in Egan, Reina, and Roden to have a full Day 1 tally.Yes, this needs to happen by end of day. So no shortening, which probably isn't a thing anyways.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 02:16:36 am
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 14, 2022, 06:56:33 am
Also, some people post MORE during the weekends.
Can confirm.
When was the last time Roden even posted? I’m not seeing them
Post by: webadict on May 14, 2022, 09:45:58 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2022, 06:23:41 pm
Why are we nominating the most sensible people, who have a proven track record for correctly finding scum, and not nominating idiots know to always vote wrong?
Post by: webadict on May 14, 2022, 09:57:28 pm
Hm, so now I'm getting suspicious.That is a highly specific question that misses a really big mark and frames the question incredibly poorly. The people that we aren't nominating are the ones that can be counted on to listen to arguments, and because I'm gunning for a Jade Council win instead of the fun-run, but...
Why are we nominating the most sensible people, who have a proven track record for correctly finding scum, and not nominating idiots know to always vote wrong?
If I had to guess...
Jim Groovester (and ToonyMan?) might actually be in a sect that requires a Jade Emperor (Or rather, requires a vote on Day 4 to win, since that's the less alignment specific one.)
That's a (potentially wild) guess, though, so don't take it as fact, but to me it seems a bit odd based on who ToonyMan is looking to nominate, AND based on some of Jim Groovester's comments. Now, am I crazy? Potentially. Probably, even. But, it feels like something that would exist here.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 14, 2022, 10:34:17 pm
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 0
Roden - 0
Jim Groovester - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 0
notquitethere - 8: notquitethere, ToonyMan, Roden, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin, Knightwing64, EuchreJack, webadict
webadict - 0
reina - 2: reina, Egan_BW
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (0):
The Day will end Monday, May 16th, at 8 PM Central time - approximately 2 days from now.
A few rules notes:
-I hadn't considered the possibility of voting to shorten the Day, but since I'm including the 'weekends don't pass time' rule, I should probably include a rule to allow for shortening the Day if it looks like no further progress will be made. A Day that drags on longer than needed isn't fun for anyone.
A vote to shorten the Day may be initiated by any player after 24 hours have passed from the start of the Day. If a supermajority (7 currently) of the living players vote to, in bold, Shorten the day, then it will be immediately ended.
To prevent shenanigans, if any player places a Nomination / Election vote, activates a vote-affecting ability, or votes to Oppose or Cancel Shorten, then the shorten will be cancelled.
A fully completed shorten vote will resolve at the next regularly scheduled vote count time. It may still be cancelled up to that time.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 14, 2022, 11:12:28 pm
Also, some people post MORE during the weekends.*cricket noises*
Post by: ToonyMan on May 14, 2022, 11:29:03 pm
Post by: webadict on May 14, 2022, 11:40:37 pm
Honestly, same. I'm sitting here being like: Okay?Also, some people post MORE during the weekends.*cricket noises*
I see you Egan, what's your proposed council??*cough* Egan is Onyx *cough*
Post by: ToonyMan on May 14, 2022, 11:43:03 pm
Jim Groovester (and ToonyMan?) might actually be in a sect that requires a Jade Emperor (Or rather, requires a vote on Day 4 to win, since that's the less alignment specific one.)That's crazy talk.
I wanted to get everyone's ideal councils first, but I could do analysis now anyway since I've got nothing better to do tonight.Honestly, same. I'm sitting here being like: Okay?Also, some people post MORE during the weekends.*cricket noises*
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2022, 12:11:53 am
Hm, so now I'm getting suspicious.
Why are we nominating the most sensible people, who have a proven track record for correctly finding scum, and not nominating idiots know to always vote wrong?
I'm not sure what you find suspicious about what you're describing but I think this is losing sight of the goal of nominating the players we read most strongly town.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 15, 2022, 12:22:21 am
Shooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorten?Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Some thoughts on the NQT nomination:
notquitethere - 8: notquitethere, ToonyMan, Roden, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin, Knightwing64, EuchreJack, webadict
reina - 2: reina, Egan_BW
Scenario #1
NQT is town and mafia are trying.
This makes Reina and Egan look worse.
Scenario #2
NQT is town and mafia aren't trying.
This tells us nothing, though it puts impetus on them moving forward.
Scenario #3
NQT is mafia (and their partners are probably trying).
In this case it doesn't matter if they're trying or not, he's getting the nomination at this rate.
It's more likely that his partners are helping him though, which would make Reina and Egan look slightly better, mainly Reina.
Personally, I think Scenario #2 or #3 is most likely. Scenario #1 is too blatant, it's unlikely that Reina and Egan are both mafia. It comes down to whether NQT is town or not, and he probably is.
Day 1 Proposed Councils
Toony -> Toony, Knightwing, NQT
Webadict -> Reina, Jack, Toony
Knightwing -> NQT, Toony, Webadict
Jim -> Jim, NQT, Roden
Jack -> Reina, Jack, Roden
NQT -> NQT, Toony, Roden
Egan* -> Egan, Jim, Reina
Max* -> Max, NQT, Roden (also townreads Web)
Reina* -> Reina, ??, ??
Roden* -> NQT, ??, ??
(Webadict and Jack are both voting NQT currently even though they're not on their top3 team, so we can assume they're a top4 pick.)
Number of times a Player is on a Proposed Council
6 - NQT
4 - Reina, Roden, Toony
2 - Jack, Jim
1 - Egan, Knightwing, Max, Webadict
Every player has nominated themselves besides Knightwing, Roden, and Webadict. Knightwing only has a nomination because of Toony. Webadict only has a nomination because of Knightwing. I have no idea why Knightwing is nominating Webadict. Webadict would actually be a top candidate for a lot of players except for the fact they claimed they lose if they get nominated.
NQT is the clear top tier. I went over this earlier.
Reina, Roden, and Toony make up the second tier. I think it's likely Roden doesn't want to be nominated based on what Webadict said and their behavior this game so it's actually more like Reina and Toony. If there's no Onyx inside NQT/Reina/Toony then we should see more and more dramatic behavior as the game moves forward as they're the most likely council nominations and mafia will have to do something at that point. I think Reina is probably town so I don't mind them being nominated.
Jack and Jim make the third tier. They have minor support and are more polarizing than the top4 players. I think it's likely neither of them or one of them is Onyx, but not the other. This is because of the hostility and suspicion they've shown each other throughout the game so far.
Egan, Knightwing, Max, and Webadict make the bottom tier. Webadict is willingly bowing out so they don't really count. The remaining three have very little popularity for various reasons. Egan is extremely suspicious. Knightwing is a black hole of mystery. Max is obtuse and rubs people the wrong way.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 15, 2022, 12:30:01 am
Tier 1
Toony, Knightwing, Jim, NQT, Max, and Roden support NQT.
Tier 2
Webadict, Jack, Egan, and Reina support Reina.
Jim, Jack, NQT, and Max support Roden.
Toony, Webadict, Knightwing, and NQT support Toony.
Tier 3
Webadict and Jack support Jack.
Jim and Egan support Jim.
Tier 4
Egan supports Egan.
Toony supports Knightwing.
Max supports Max.
Knightwing supports Webadict.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 15, 2022, 12:31:04 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 15, 2022, 12:40:07 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 15, 2022, 01:19:28 am
I don't support myself, fuck that guy. My council is Meph, Fal, and Mamobo.A visionary beyond reproach.
Post by: Roden on May 15, 2022, 06:44:16 am
Regardless, my reads on everyone feel a bit more solid than they were earlier. I feel a lot better about Jack for instance, I think that tonally he's coming off a lot more town than before and that he's being a lot more solvey.
Web feels very transparent, cooperative, and townie. But that sets off alarm bells in my head every time he's like that. I've been snowed by Web pulling this trick as scum so I'm cautious, but I've seen him play this way as town before as well, plus his claim feels legitimate, so I'm leaning town.
NQT kinda town told early on, my mind hasn't changed much there.
Toony is interesting because I see the detective hat and the consistent questioning, which really just makes me want to town bin him. Plus I don't really see him trying to claw his way into controlling the game state. It's been a hot minute since I've town read Toony on Day 1, but I'm kinda leaning that way right now.
Jim might be a member of the Cabal? Pushing for an early Day end isn't in itself scum indicative, but I've noticed in the past that Jim is a bit...hedgey, usually. He gets anxious sometimes when he has to commit to a choice or a read, especially if a lot of people agree with his first choice. I just think he'd show some concern or hesitance with the near unanimous NQT nomination, but he seems ready to just lock it in and move on.
I don't usually like equating effort with alignment, but I agree with Web that it's town indicative for Reina. It shows a level of investment that I think would be hard to fake if she had rolled Cabal on her first game back.
Max I usually just leave for Day 2 before I start solving there. I don't think anything stands out about him as being particularly alignment indicative atm.
Egan is similar, I don't feel like he stands out that much. Even after rereading his posts, I'm not sure I know where his head is at.
Knightwing feels lost, but at this point I feel certain his partners would be coaching him to speak up more if he were Cabal, so I think he's town.
Post by: Roden on May 15, 2022, 06:47:13 am
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 15, 2022, 07:05:23 am
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 07:34:14 am
Post by: notquitethere on May 15, 2022, 08:28:18 am
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 08:47:35 am
That's very curious Web. What makes me enough of a Jade to put on the council but not be voted emperor? Is this related to your additional wincon?I do not think you're as Townie as other players. What is confusing about that, so I may correct your framed question?
Post by: notquitethere on May 15, 2022, 09:11:12 am
I do not think you're as Townie as other players. What is confusing about that, so I may correct your framed question?It's not confusing, it's curious. It's a bit of information about you. So you think I'm townie enough to risk putting on the council but there are other candidates you want to put on the council on a later day. That's explicable...
But you must see through my view, this exactly fits the behaviour of scum who want to lie low on my wagon: like, yeah they'll support me to the council because everyone else is, but when the final day comes they'll wriggle out of that support and throw behind the Onyx scum they've weaseled onto the chamber.
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 09:26:16 am
If I were going to do that, I wouldn't make my intentions known. I can think you are Town but unwilling to vote you for emperor because I think you could play like this as scum. It's not rocket surgery. I can only vote one person, and it's currently reina, so if you want to fix that, maybe don't make your tagline that you can't differentiate Town from scum :)I do not think you're as Townie as other players. What is confusing about that, so I may correct your framed question?It's not confusing, it's curious. It's a bit of information about you. So you think I'm townie enough to risk putting on the council but there are other candidates you want to put on the council on a later day. That's explicable...
But you must see through my view, this exactly fits the behaviour of scum who want to lie low on my wagon: like, yeah they'll support me to the council because everyone else is, but when the final day comes they'll wriggle out of that support and throw behind the Onyx scum they've weaseled onto the chamber.
Post by: notquitethere on May 15, 2022, 11:28:44 am
Using Toony's excellent tier list, with the addition of Roden's answer. Unlike his tiers, I haven't given any weighting to whether or not people would vote for themselves, as all players support themselves even if they don't want to be on the council.
(https://i.imgur.com/MPLjd3z.png)
Spoiler: Key (click to show/hide)
If nothing else happens, the council will end up as NQT, Roden and then one of Toony or Reina. What else does this graph show us?
This is the web if we only take into account strong ties of people who mutually vouch for one another:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZBrcWbB.png)
Could all five be Jade? If Onyx were in the sequence where would they be?
Post by: notquitethere on May 15, 2022, 11:32:26 am
- Would every Onyx put another Onyx in their council picks?
- Would they allow any Onyx to be completely friendless (i.e. Max & Egan)?
- Is Reina's reluctance to give picks alignment-indicative?
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 12:22:45 pm
More questions that occur to me but I don't know the answer to:What do you think the answers are?
- Would every Onyx put another Onyx in their council picks?
- Would they allow any Onyx to be completely friendless (i.e. Max & Egan)?
- Is Reina's reluctance to give picks alignment-indicative?
Post by: reina on May 15, 2022, 12:54:47 pm
Reina...is behind the Eightball.@jack: whoops i missed this
@Reina: I switched my vote to Roden, so your question is irrelevant.
@notquitethere: I don't think anything would stop be from advocating for my own nomination. I would only ask someone not to vote for me in the scenario where the leading candidate smells scummy to me and there's a possiblity of swinging the vote by taking myself out of the running for the day.How do you feel about leading the vote tally? Are there any scenarios where you would ask your supporters to vote someone else today?I am pleased I am leading the vote tally, I put myself forward for the council for precisely this reason. I could only see myself calling for someone else to get the nomination today if there were some ability that changed my understanding of the situation. My goal today (as it will be every day) is to get Jade onto the council, and so the most straightforward way of doing that is getting myself on the council to begin with.
How about you, would there be anything that would make you decide not to run as a candidate?
@toony: sorry for not getting back to you about my council in time, I wanted more interactions to base my town reads off of
My council:
NQT - for being a point of focus today, they've held up really well. I don't mind nominating them day 1
myself - duh
ToonyMan - has been doing good detective work in the open. don't see much active campaigning but it helps that his candidate took an early vote lead
thank you to those that swapped over to me briefly, hoping to bring that energy into day 2.
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 01:03:42 pm
My council:Copycat.
NQT - for being a point of focus today, they've held up really well. I don't mind nominating them day 1
myself - duh
ToonyMan - has been doing good detective work in the open. don't see much active campaigning but it helps that his candidate took an early vote lead
thank you to those that swapped over to me briefly, hoping to bring that energy into day 2.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2022, 01:07:32 pm
@toony: sorry for not getting back to you about my council in time, I wanted more interactions to base my town reads off of
I think this is pretty fishy honestly. I think delaying committing to a read one way or another is a scum tactic.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2022, 01:09:36 pm
@toony: sorry for not getting back to you about my council in time, I wanted more interactions to base my town reads off of
I think this is pretty fishy honestly. I think delaying committing to a read one way or another is a scum tactic.
Like, what was insufficient about ToonyMan's and notquitethere's activity thus far in the game that warranted a delay on committing to your town read on them? They've posted plenty.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 15, 2022, 01:14:31 pm
@toony: sorry for not getting back to you about my council in time, I wanted more interactions to base my town reads off of
I think this is pretty fishy honestly. I think delaying committing to a read one way or another is a scum tactic.
Like, what was insufficient about ToonyMan's and notquitethere's activity thus far in the game that warranted a delay on committing to your town read on them? They've posted plenty.
I think they meant they wanted more individual conversations with them.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2022, 01:17:08 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2022, 01:23:04 pm
Huh, ok. I intentionally stopped posting to see if anyone would bring it up as one of my scum tells, but it kinda looks people just assume I'm town here. Or at least, no one saw it as particularly suspicious. I'm kinda surprised and disappointed honestly, I was hoping someone would accuse me of being a member of the Cabal, since it would've been a town tell.
'i was intentionally lurking'
>:(
Post by: reina on May 15, 2022, 01:37:59 pm
The delay was longer than I was hoping, didn't get back to the thread quickly enough.Like, what was insufficient about ToonyMan's and notquitethere's activity thus far in the game that warranted a delay on committing to your town read on them? They've posted plenty.@toony: sorry for not getting back to you about my council in time, I wanted more interactions to base my town reads off of
I think this is pretty fishy honestly. I think delaying committing to a read one way or another is a scum tactic.
I had made a large readings post where I asked a bunch of pointed questions to people. I felt like it would be fair to give everyone a chance to respond to that before I committed to anything. Don't think i needed more data on toony or NQT specifically. If anything I was more interested in seeing how other people's voting choices might be impacted by my brief campaign. The timing and reasoning behind vote switches are going to be a large source of signal in this game.
It also felt like a hard question to answer because I seem to be reading people as scum more often than not.
In fact I definitely needed more on NQT and Toony before this. Just look at how I talked about both of them in my readings post:
It's probably much easier for scum to make that opening if they know their buddy is going to immediately join and defend them ;)I could see scum and town notquitethere both making that post, but I think town notquitethere more readily and easily makes that post than scum notquitethere does. Really I'd say any town player in general more readily makes that post than any scum player does. It comes across as fun rather than a careful and calculated move to advance an agenda.I strongly agree. I think scum!NQT would be much more cowardly.
Will you be keeping your vote on NQT? Are you considering anybody else?
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 01:53:26 pm
So brave, to make such a good attack.Huh, ok. I intentionally stopped posting to see if anyone would bring it up as one of my scum tells, but it kinda looks people just assume I'm town here. Or at least, no one saw it as particularly suspicious. I'm kinda surprised and disappointed honestly, I was hoping someone would accuse me of being a member of the Cabal, since it would've been a town tell.
'i was intentionally lurking'
>:(
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 05:27:57 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 15, 2022, 05:33:19 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/NxiCWmK.png)
Web/Jack/Egan form an interesting trifecta as the players who all deny the NQT-ascendancy (though Web and Jack have fallen in line with the vote), and they all favor Reina. And the support is mostly asymmetric: Reina doesn't favour her supporters, and other than Web liking Jack, they don't support one another.
It's too early to call teams etc. but this is an interesting dynamic worth re-examining in later days.
Pure Speculation
More questions that occur to me but I don't know the answer to:1. Honestly Max is right, we could see relatively low co-ordination, especially on D1. Shooting from the hip, I expect they have a Face who they intend to put on the council, a Supporter of the Face and a Lurker who doesn't support either of them actively but could jump on later wagons.
1 Would every Onyx put another Onyx in their council picks?
2 Would they allow any Onyx to be completely friendless (i.e. Max & Egan)?
3 Is Reina's reluctance to give picks alignment-indicative?
2. Yeah, though probably both Max and Egan are not scum. It would be interesting if they are though. The three least supported players are Jim, Max and Egan: remove them and the web of sentiment holds up without anything changing.
3. I honestly don't know what's par for the course for Reina. Late picking could be something scum want to do, she's playing very cautiously here. I've been caught out on NAI procedural stuff before though so I'm not going to call it on this one thing.
Anyway, I don't anticipate any new insights for today, so let's shorten
Post by: Egan_BW on May 15, 2022, 06:01:30 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2022, 06:12:50 pm
Post by: reina on May 15, 2022, 06:13:25 pm
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 06:45:24 pm
Uhh, Webadict then. It's not gonna win the vote but whatever. Also Shorten.The fuck did I do to you?
Post by: Egan_BW on May 15, 2022, 06:47:08 pm
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 06:51:00 pm
Web/Jack/Egan form an interesting trifecta as the players who all deny the NQT-ascendancy (though Web and Jack have fallen in line with the vote), and they all favor Reina. And the support is mostly asymmetric: Reina doesn't favour her supporters, and other than Web liking Jack, they don't support one another.This fails to encapsulate an important factor: I'm not able to be supported (Or rather, I'm not wanting the support or I'll lose.) Why is that not a listed factor?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 15, 2022, 08:31:42 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 15, 2022, 09:20:27 pm
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 0
Roden - 0
Jim Groovester - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 0
notquitethere - 9: notquitethere, ToonyMan, Roden, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin, Knightwing64, EuchreJack, webadict, reina
webadict - 1: Egan_BW
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (0):
Shorten - 4: Egan_BW, Jim Groovester, reina, ToonyMan
The Day will end Monday, May 16th, tomorrow, at 8 PM - approximately 24 hours from now.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 15, 2022, 09:48:32 pm
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2022, 10:19:32 pm
I see you Egan, what's your proposed council??*cough* Egan is Onyx *cough*
Uhh, Webadict then. It's not gonna win the vote but whatever. Also Shorten.Not sure why you'd support me when I think you're Onyx, but alright. Honestly, I see it as a way for you to distance yourself from your teammates, but if I'm gonna be honest, you'd be better off putting your vote on notquitethere, if your goal is to sow confusion.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 15, 2022, 11:33:44 pm
Post by: Roden on May 16, 2022, 01:11:56 am
Post by: notquitethere on May 16, 2022, 01:14:58 am
Yeah, a'ight, Shorten. This is boring.
Anyway, I don't anticipate any new insights for today, so let's shorten
As it was missed:
Shorten
Post by: Roden on May 16, 2022, 01:17:59 am
I see you Egan, what's your proposed council??*cough* Egan is Onyx *cough*Uhh, Webadict then. It's not gonna win the vote but whatever. Also Shorten.Not sure why you'd support me when I think you're Onyx, but alright. Honestly, I see it as a way for you to distance yourself from your teammates, but if I'm gonna be honest, you'd be better off putting your vote on notquitethere, if your goal is to sow confusion.
A vote to shorten the Day may be initiated by any player after 24 hours have passed from the start of the Day. If a supermajority (7 currently) of the living players vote to, in bold, Shorten the day, then it will be immediately ended.I'm thinking it was done to intentionally reset the shorten votes in order to drag out the day and build apathy.
To prevent shenanigans, if any player places a Nomination / Election vote, activates a vote-affecting ability, or votes to Oppose or Cancel Shorten, then the shorten will be cancelled.
A fully completed shorten vote will resolve at the next regularly scheduled vote count time. It may still be cancelled up to that time.
Shorten
Post by: notquitethere on May 16, 2022, 01:20:44 am
Not sure why you'd support me when I think you're Onyx, but alright. Honestly, I see it as a way for you to distance yourself from your teammates, but if I'm gonna be honest, you'd be better off putting your vote on notquitethere, if your goal is to sow confusion.Weird way of putting it, though I'm not sure how much we can read into Egan's nonproductive vote. He's pretty scummy either way.
Kinda getting the feeling that the general restlessness from everyone might be because a lot of abilities go online starting Day 2. Though since we don't really get any flips with this set up (with some exceptions), I wonder how Day 2 is supposed to play out. We aren't guaranteed to gain any info as we move on from Day to Day unless PRs get successful results.We can only wait and see. A lot of the info will be seeing who supports who when there's much less unanimity over a candidate.
Also I've got a horrible feeling I'll be assassinated or something.
I'm thinking it was done to intentionally reset the shorten votes in order to drag out the day and build apathy.Ah of course.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 05:10:07 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 08:55:34 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 08:57:04 am
Post by: notquitethere on May 16, 2022, 09:10:51 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 09:17:42 am
Just waiting on Max and Knightwing to shorten then. In general, I think shorter days are pro-game (regardless of alignment), it acts against fatigue.In most cases, I disagree. But since almost everyone is voting for you, there isn't much point in prolonging this particular day.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 10:45:03 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 11:11:21 am
I'm almost positive NQT is town just from their excitement drawing colored circles.
I'm less sure about Jim, but I agree with most of what they're saying.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 11:14:50 am
I don't believe Jack and Jim could be on a team unless they're doing some 50 IQ distancing.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 11:19:13 am
I'm thinking it was done to intentionally reset the shorten votes in order to drag out the day and build apathy.It's working.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 16, 2022, 11:48:43 am
Post by: notquitethere on May 16, 2022, 11:55:09 am
My vote is Egan. Way too shifty.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 12:02:21 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2022, 12:05:16 pm
Since we're all sticking about then... how about everyone name one player that they would never want to vote for emperor.
My vote is Egan. Way too shifty.
Egan_BW but that's too obvious an answer really. I have a lot of hesitation about seeing reina nominated.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 16, 2022, 12:06:56 pm
Egan_BW but that's too obvious an answer really. I have a lot of hesitation about seeing reina nominated.This shouldn't be a surprise, but yes, exactly this.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 12:07:17 pm
I'll throw in a second with Knightwing.
@Toony: Yeah, that's what I was feeling too. I think Jim is probably fifth or maybe fourth most suspicious, but... I... think Jack might still be Town, but I also think Jim is also probably Town. Max is unknown to me, but that really only makes him third most suspicious.
Anyway, do you feel confident that there's two Town among reina and NQT? Because that's what I'll be pushing. If reina is voted in, I will 100% vote you in, because reina, you, and Roden are my top three Town, and NQT is probably fourth or fifth.
Regardless, my new council is fine with NQT, reina, and Toony.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 12:20:50 pm
Unlike Jim and Max I'm okay with Reina in the council, but I'll only concede my vote to them if I have no chance at the nomination tomorrow.
Post by: reina on May 16, 2022, 12:23:40 pm
Since we're all sticking about then... how about everyone name one player that they would never want to vote for emperor.I think I have the most reservations about voting for Jim
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2022, 12:34:47 pm
Since we're all sticking about then... how about everyone name one player that they would never want to vote for emperor.I think I have the most reservations about voting for Jim
You'd vote for Egan_BW before you'd vote for me?
Really?
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 12:49:40 pm
Bargaining??Yep. You're the only one I'd be willing to bargain with because I know you'd be willing to give up your seat if you saw someone Townier available, even if you vocally disagree with that statement. Also, bargaining with Jim and Max requires me to vote one of them over you, which isn't viable.
Unlike Jim and Max I'm okay with Reina in the council, but I'll only concede my vote to them if I have no chance at the nomination tomorrow.
If Jack is Town, he'll vote reina and you because I think he's Town which I believe is true, and if it isn't then we juncture Jim or someone else into the council instead. NQT doesn't care as much, since he's voted, but he'll look to get Town players, and I think NQT definitely sees you as Town, and I think he also like reina, so that's a council he'll agree with. Roden also seems like he'll be on board with that since he thinks that you and I are Town.
The issue I have is that Jim, Max, Egan, and Knightwing are weird swing voters, where Jim just inherently doesn't trust me or reina, which is silly, but I'm willing to accept that both Town and scum Jim would be similar in that regards, Max absolutely wants himself on the council, which is concerning, since he's typically a good reader, and he's against reina for reasons that he'll likely refuse to divulge, which makes him a liability. Egan is scum, so I'm not sure what his game plan is, and Knightwing could be scum, but he could also be extremely confused, but I can't say for sure which is which.
Hence, I'm bargaining with you because you know I'm forced to stay on that path unless I'm horribly disinterested in actually winning. If I break from my path, I'll never be able to convince anyone to elect reina, and since I'm pretty sure you're Town, this feels like it should be a win-win for both of us.
PPE:
Yeah, even if I think Jim is kinda scummy, like, Egan is definitely top of the list.Since we're all sticking about then... how about everyone name one player that they would never want to vote for emperor.I think I have the most reservations about voting for Jim
You'd vote for Egan_BW before you'd vote for me?
Really?
@Toony: Maybe reina is difficult to get nominated. If you can get Roden or reina on the council, I'm down. Yes, reina has baggage, and so does Jack, but I am 65% sure they're both Town, which is good odds, comparatively. Actually, this isn't a bargain, because I'm still going to vote you Day 3 regardless, but I figured I'd pretend like it is because no one else would understand.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 16, 2022, 01:17:40 pm
and Knightwing could be scum, but he could also be extremely confused, but I can't say for sure which is which.For the record, I think Knightwing is probably town. He could just be hiding it better after last time, but given my current field of candidates, it's somewhat less likely that he's being coached, so I'm just going to stick with the simpler option for now.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 16, 2022, 01:20:45 pm
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 02:05:00 pm
Let me add: it is very likely that I can prevent you from nominating someone I don't want (like, say, the new guy), at least once, although I won't tell you how, lest someone have a counter.(https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111131586/4738701-6447452492-tumbl.gif)
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 02:30:59 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 03:02:21 pm
Yep. You're the only one I'd be willing to bargain with because I know you'd be willing to give up your seat if you saw someone Townier available, even if you vocally disagree with that statement.I would argue that doesn't make any sense, but I did give up my seat for NQT today.
Given the previous game I weigh this opinion rather heavily.and Knightwing could be scum, but he could also be extremely confused, but I can't say for sure which is which.For the record, I think Knightwing is probably town. He could just be hiding it better after last time, but given my current field of candidates, it's somewhat less likely that he's being coached, so I'm just going to stick with the simpler option for now.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 03:11:33 pm
I will actively campaign against Knightwing. There are dozens of better choices, and there's only 10 players in this game.Given the previous game I weigh this opinion rather heavily.and Knightwing could be scum, but he could also be extremely confused, but I can't say for sure which is which.For the record, I think Knightwing is probably town. He could just be hiding it better after last time, but given my current field of candidates, it's somewhat less likely that he's being coached, so I'm just going to stick with the simpler option for now.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 03:16:05 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 16, 2022, 03:26:39 pm
I will actively campaign against Knightwing. There are dozens of better choices, and there's only 10 players in this game.Given the previous game I weigh this opinion rather heavily.and Knightwing could be scum, but he could also be extremely confused, but I can't say for sure which is which.For the record, I think Knightwing is probably town. He could just be hiding it better after last time, but given my current field of candidates, it's somewhat less likely that he's being coached, so I'm just going to stick with the simpler option for now.
Ouch, may I ask why?
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 03:40:00 pm
Ouch, may I ask why?Mostly because I think you're not paying enough attention to the main thread to be anything but activelurking.
Post by: Roden on May 16, 2022, 03:41:19 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 16, 2022, 03:58:41 pm
Ouch, may I ask why?Mostly because I think you're not paying enough attention to the main thread to be anything but activelurking.
I’m at school most of the time and anything I could add has already been said by smarter people.
Knightwing, who do you think are Cabal members?
Um, You and Egan?
Post by: Roden on May 16, 2022, 04:02:49 pm
Can you explain why? Also, who would be the third Cabal member?Knightwing, who do you think are Cabal members?
Um, You and Egan?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2022, 04:14:17 pm
anything I could add has already been said by smarter people.
That's completely irrelevant. It's important to know what you think about the game even if it's repetitive to what other people have said.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 06:20:36 pm
@Knightwing: ^Not only this, but also I've felt that this hasn't usually been an issue for you to say something about the game state except when you're scum. You seem reserved, which doesn't map for me, and it's why I think you're more likely scum. But, then again, what do I know. I'd trust Maximum Spin if I thought they were Town, but they're not like reina, so I deffo can't.anything I could add has already been said by smarter people.
That's completely irrelevant. It's important to know what you think about the game even if it's repetitive to what other people have said.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 16, 2022, 06:30:13 pm
Can you explain why? Also, who would be the third Cabal member?Knightwing, who do you think are Cabal members?
Um, You and Egan?
Well, I the first thing you did after being silent for a long time was to admit you had been lurking on purpose and was disappointed that no one called you out on it? Egan has just been acting weird period, and maybe web? He changed his mind too fast, normally whenever he says something he sticks with it, even when it’s overtly obvious that it isn’t true. So changing his mind really fast seems kinda OOC for him.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 06:36:06 pm
Which part did I change my mind on?Can you explain why? Also, who would be the third Cabal member?Knightwing, who do you think are Cabal members?
Um, You and Egan?
Well, I the first thing you did after being silent for a long time was to admit you had been lurking on purpose and was disappointed that no one called you out on it? Egan has just been acting weird period, and maybe web? He changed his mind too fast, normally whenever he says something he sticks with it, even when it’s overtly obvious that it isn’t true. So changing his mind really fast seems kinda OOC for him.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 16, 2022, 06:43:37 pm
Haha, it's funny seeing you two's opinion of Knightwing completely 180.
^
This made me think that you supported me earlier but I went back and checked and you weren’t. I think he was talking about past games. My bad
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 16, 2022, 06:50:52 pm
Heh, yeah, he was talking about last time when you were the King.Haha, it's funny seeing you two's opinion of Knightwing completely 180.
^
This made me think that you supported me earlier but I went back and checked and you weren’t. I think he was talking about past games. My bad
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 07:04:15 pm
That makes me worried that you're hurrying to find answers to questions. You took ToonyMan at their word, which sorta contradicts your past support for me, and makes me wonder if you are worrying about who is scum and who is Town. But, it means you're just absorbing a small amount at a time. I get that you might be busy, but I also expect you to have little tidbits to share, even if it's your usual sentence self.Haha, it's funny seeing you two's opinion of Knightwing completely 180.
^
This made me think that you supported me earlier but I went back and checked and you weren’t. I think he was talking about past games. My bad
So, that's why I think you're scum. If you're not scum, that still leaves you better on the voting bloc, since I believe that you are actually much better at reading arguments as Town, so putting you up to be voted doesn't suit you or the Town. Hence, why I cannot accept a Knightwing candidacy.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 07:13:17 pm
@Toony & Web: How exactly are Jim and I not on the same team? I'm not seeing it. Please explain, as I would like to see it.
Usually, both Toony & Web can see me as town very quickly. Even Jim, whom is apparently on different teams, has outright admitted that I've dived back into my crazy paranoid meta. And since you've all seen me trying to fake it, and Toony didn't buy it for a second, why are these players scum reading me?
I think I have an answer. Web, at least, is trying to keep me from being nominated because he figures I'll sheep him.
Web, has that always worked out for you?
Toony, I think, just wants to be nominated. Look at how Toony clears away anyone that might possibly get nominated.
Again @ Web: Nominate Toonyman Day 2, so he stops trying to block any other nominations. Then he might stop caring a bit.
...God I hope Web is town.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 07:18:02 pm
Can you explain why? Also, who would be the third Cabal member?Knightwing, who do you think are Cabal members?
Um, You and Egan?
Well, I the first thing you did after being silent for a long time was to admit you had been lurking on purpose and was disappointed that no one called you out on it? Egan has just been acting weird period, and maybe web? He changed his mind too fast, normally whenever he says something he sticks with it, even when it’s overtly obvious that it isn’t true. So changing his mind really fast seems kinda OOC for him.
Good Job Knightwing!
I hadn't considered the possibility* of Web being scum with the "I can't be nominated" as a scum ploy to keep himself among the electorate.
This is valuable insight, please keep sharing.
*Web, it's just a possibility. Overall, I think the inability to be nominated actually leans you townward, but it can't be proven. Overall, you seem too serious to be scum. But maybe that is the COVID talking.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 16, 2022, 08:28:07 pm
There was a grumbling amongst the many others - a motion was passed to allow the electorate to give notquitethere his well-earned position immediately. This proved to be irrelevant for the purposes of allowing rest to come sooner, for the day's end had marched its way to prominence, but it did show just how clear notquitethere's victory was, that the gathered Court felt that no further debate was needed.
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 0
Roden - 0
Jim Groovester - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 0
notquitethere - 10: notquitethere, ToonyMan, Roden, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin, Knightwing64, EuchreJack, webadict, reina
webadict - 1: Egan_BW
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (0):
Shorten - 7: Egan_BW, Jim Groovester, reina, ToonyMan, webadict, EuchreJack, Roden
notquitethere has been Nominated.
And as the day was consumed by darkest night, scheming hearts plotted in secret...
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 08:33:42 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 08:34:02 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 16, 2022, 08:42:30 pm
Day 2 - United Or Divided?
After a well-earned rest, the ten electorate gathered once again. Breakfast was served, though the pleasantries involved in receiving it now fell by the wayside. The first day of nomination had shown both the potential for unity among the Jade Court, along with the potential for disharmony. It was not clear whether the next two nominations would be quite so unanimous, now that the most obvious candidate had been selected. Popularity was, after all, such a fickle thing.
Now notquitethere spoke from his protected booth, though his vote could still be cast just as easily as before. The time allotted for breakfast passed in what seemed to be the blink of an eye, and the next day's debate began in earnest. The faces of the gathered Court - grim, serious, playful, determined, calculating - stared each other down.
Quote from: The Nominated
- notquitethere
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 0
Roden - 0
Jim Groovester - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 0
webadict - 0
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (10): EuchreJack, Maximum Spin, Roden, Jim Groovester, Egan_BW, Knightwing64, notquitethere, webadict, reina, ToonyMan
Welcome to Day 2. Good luck, everyone.
Day 2 has begun, and will end 8 PM Central time, Thursday the 19th - approximately 3 days from now.
oh fuck I posted without checking the threadYou can edit those posts to 'oops' or '.' or such. Feel free to copy the content from them first if you still want to use it.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 08:46:33 pm
So, I hate to make things all about me, but its what I know.Multiple points:
@Toony & Web: How exactly are Jim and I not on the same team? I'm not seeing it. Please explain, as I would like to see it.
Usually, both Toony & Web can see me as town very quickly. Even Jim, whom is apparently on different teams, has outright admitted that I've dived back into my crazy paranoid meta. And since you've all seen me trying to fake it, and Toony didn't buy it for a second, why are these players scum reading me?
I think I have an answer. Web, at least, is trying to keep me from being nominated because he figures I'll sheep him.
Web, has that always worked out for you?
Toony, I think, just wants to be nominated. Look at how Toony clears away anyone that might possibly get nominated.
Again @ Web: Nominate Toonyman Day 2, so he stops trying to block any other nominations. Then he might stop caring a bit.
...God I hope Web is town.
1. I'm not under the impression that you and Jim are t/w. I'm actually under the impression that you are more likely t/t, or that Jim is the w. Jim being scum makes sense given his potential scumslip, but doesn't seem like .
2. Technically, I would've tried to push you further, but you stopped being as obviously Town as reina, and trying to shove you into the council would destroy my credibility and, worse, probably fail. You are right, however, that I absolutely believe you will vote as I vote, especially if ToonyMan isn't available to vote, which is why pushing him to Day 3 matters, since I'll have a better understanding of the council in case we need to vote. Sometimes, it works, sometimes, it doesn't, but that's why you're here to make sure I'm not screwing up, now aren't you?
3. I won't push ToonyMan Day 2. This is a test to have him prove that he's a Townie, because he may very well be who we need to vote on Day 4.
4. If I'm scum, then one of you or reina are my scumbuddy, OR one of notquitethere and ToonyMan is my buddy, no? ToonyMan being my buddy makes no sense at that point, since, you're right, I can just push for his nomination without care. NQT being my buddy also seems like an unlikely chance, since I'd have no reason to oppose his nomination or voting. Therefore, you'd have to assume that reina and I are scum... I assume with Egan, since there isn't really a good alternative. Do you believe in that team? I don't. I think there are much better theories, and it'd be incredibly silly.
PPE:
reina
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2022, 08:48:07 pm
Not good with reina.
reina
No.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 08:48:58 pm
@Toony & Web: How exactly are Jim and I not on the same team? I'm not seeing it. Please explain, as I would like to see it.What I mean is that I don't think you're both mafia. I feel like the grievances Jim is showing of you is very natural. He mocks you here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373492#msg8373492) He implies you're Onyx here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373875#msg8373875) He supports Roden's caution of you here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373769#msg8373769) This reasons you're both town or only one of you is scum.
Toony, I think, just wants to be nominated. Look at how Toony clears away anyone that might possibly get nominated.What do you mean? I would like to be nominated, but I'm not shutting down players I think are town.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 09:01:27 pm
(anybody notice something odd with the D1 vote count?)
I think Reina is the right pick between the two, for various reasons...
Knightwing, what do you think about Reina?
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 09:09:23 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2022, 09:12:11 pm
My read on reina is tepid at best. I think they are playing a much weaker game than they're being given credit for. I think there are other players who are much safer town picks who we could nominate instead. Roden is one of them but there are also players I think are reasonably safe bets as well.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 09:13:37 pm
Maximum Spin has two votes, that's probably it.Why Max?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 09:16:36 pm
You can answer by self-voting, if you wish.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 09:17:41 pm
Post by: Roden on May 16, 2022, 09:19:33 pm
I knew there wouldn't be much fanfare when transitioning to the next Day phase, but it still feels weird to me.
I'm curious about something. A lot of people are scum reading Egan, and he isn't really fighting it, though no one's really attacking or questioning him either. If he really is a Cabal member, what would this suggest about the game state?
To me, it makes me think that the Cabal team might not have much influence over the game state. Which adds up with how "set" the game feels right now, there are very few viable candidates and the status quo doesn't seem to be changing much as the game goes on.
Post by: Roden on May 16, 2022, 09:24:06 pm
@Roden: If you were to be nominated, would you be willing and able to accept that nomination?My self vote wasn't actually an answer, I didn't pay attention to the preview edit before answering lol. But yes I'd easily accept a nomination.
You can answer by self-voting, if you wish.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 09:42:38 pm
If this were a game with a lynch reina is the player I would be voting after Egan_BW. With that in mind I couldn't possibly let my second top suspect get nominated.Name them.
My read on reina is tepid at best. I think they are playing a much weaker game than they're being given credit for. I think there are other players who are much safer town picks who we could nominate instead. Roden is one of them but there are also players I think are reasonably safe bets as well.
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 09:44:44 pm
Based on what he said earlier.Maximum Spin has two votes, that's probably it.Why Max?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2022, 10:27:27 pm
If this were a game with a lynch reina is the player I would be voting after Egan_BW. With that in mind I couldn't possibly let my second top suspect get nominated.Name them.
My read on reina is tepid at best. I think they are playing a much weaker game than they're being given credit for. I think there are other players who are much safer town picks who we could nominate instead. Roden is one of them but there are also players I think are reasonably safe bets as well.
Voting for one and also named one already. Roden and ToonyMan I'm okay with. If EuchreJack gets nominated I doubt that loses the game for the town. I'm also not going to go out of my way to promote him but I don't think Knightwing64 loses the game for town either.
What about you, webadict? You've said reina and ToonyMan. Who's your third? Maybe in the intersection of the set of my town reads and the set of your town reads there are two players we both agree on.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 16, 2022, 10:30:02 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 11:01:25 pm
And I would gladly second/third that, Roden@Roden: If you were to be nominated, would you be willing and able to accept that nomination?My self vote wasn't actually an answer, I didn't pay attention to the preview edit before answering lol. But yes I'd easily accept a nomination.
You can answer by self-voting, if you wish.
I didn't take Max's claim to mean he was a double voter.Based on what he said earlier.Maximum Spin has two votes, that's probably it.Why Max?
@Max: Care to elaborate?
Post by: webadict on May 16, 2022, 11:13:32 pm
I wrote an entire list of people.If this were a game with a lynch reina is the player I would be voting after Egan_BW. With that in mind I couldn't possibly let my second top suspect get nominated.Name them.
My read on reina is tepid at best. I think they are playing a much weaker game than they're being given credit for. I think there are other players who are much safer town picks who we could nominate instead. Roden is one of them but there are also players I think are reasonably safe bets as well.
Voting for one and also named one already. Roden and ToonyMan I'm okay with. If EuchreJack gets nominated I doubt that loses the game for the town. I'm also not going to go out of my way to promote him but I don't think Knightwing64 loses the game for town either.
What about you, webadict? You've said reina and ToonyMan. Who's your third? Maybe in the intersection of the set of my town reads and the set of your town reads there are two players we both agree on.
reina
ToonyMan
Roden
EuchreJack
Jim Groovester
Maximum Spin
Knightwing64
Egan_BW
In that order. I can even tell you why, because I've done it a couple of times for each person.
The problem I have, however, is that I'm still going to continue voting reina because I don't fully trust you.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2022, 11:45:43 pm
Ride or die doesn't make sense to me from a town perspective for this game.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 16, 2022, 11:52:33 pm
Alright Folks!
This a Political Election, and we'll run it like an Election!
It seems today's candidates for nomination are Roden vs. Reina. Anyone else want to run? No? Then STFU.
The Candidates Roden & Reina are the one who need to speak. It will be their words and their commitment that will determine who gets nominated today.
We have heard distressingly little from either candidate, and I for one can not support either of them unless they are willing to be Serious Candidates.
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 01:10:52 am
I find it difficult to make sense of your position where you're unwilling to compromise on reina given that we agree on two out of three of our top choices.No, no, no, no, see, you're confused.
Ride or die doesn't make sense to me from a town perspective for this game.
I'm unwilling to compromise with you. Does that help clear things up? Actually, let me explain it in a slightly different way: The compromise is that I don't vote reina and you do nothing that you aren't already doing. That's just me folding. Actually, let me explain it in a third way: You're telling me to stop voting reina. ACTUALLY, LET ME EXPLAIN IT A FOURTH--.
See, none of those appeal to me on an instinctual level. You're asking me to drop my favored choice. '"Wherefore art thou, reina?" he asked. "A name of any other Townie would smell as sweet!"' And yet, it is me who must change, to lead the road by following. I am the master of someone else's destiny, a forlorn candle, degraded and debased, melting away in the dying light of mine brethren.
See you now? That I am being asked for not compromise, but to step forward. And then the unreasonable man will ask of me again to meet him in the middle. Must I stand here and be told that this is fair? That this is freedom?! Nay, I say! NAY! This is tyranny, pure and simple! An outrageous display of dereliction!
In less than an hour, aircraft from here will join others from around the world. And you will be launching the largest aerial battle in this history of mankind. Mankind -- that word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can't be consumed by our petty differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps its fate that today is the 4th of July, and you will once again be fighting for our freedom, not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution -- but from annihilation. We're fighting for our right to live, to exist. And should we win the day, the 4th of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day when the world declared in one voice: "We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive!" Today, we celebrate our Independence Day!
Anyway, the point I'm saying is that I'd rather pick reina over Roden but if you asked nicely, I'd probably vote for Roden.
Post by: Roden on May 17, 2022, 01:28:30 am
If it's between me and Reina, obviously I'd prefer to take the nomination there. But if I'm not the preferred vote between the two of us, she isn't one of my top 3 choices and I'd rather campaign for Jack or Toony at that point instead.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 17, 2022, 01:30:57 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 01:52:49 am
I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do to argue my case here tbh. We have no flips and no real info. NQT got a near unanimous nomination since he more or less passed the vibe check early on, not necessarily because his alignment was solved.
If it's between me and Reina, obviously I'd prefer to take the nomination there. But if I'm not the preferred vote between the two of us, she isn't one of my top 3 choices and I'd rather campaign for Jack or Toony at that point instead.
Since Reina hasn't posted in a while, you're my candidate by default. But I'll make a clean post explaining the Election Process.Assuming everyone is ok with my continuing to just make stuff up
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 01:59:37 am
This time, he is arranging for a Debate between two Worthy Candidates.
Servants arrange two podiums on a raised platform, and a small desk to the side.
Alright folks, time for a Debate!
Today, we have Roden and Reina seeking your support for the Day 2 nomination.
I expect each candidate to give a brief speech on why they should be your Day 2 Nomination.
As this is a political election, a campaign of smearing their opponent most viciously is wholly appropriate!
Then, our Candidates will answer questions from the crowd.
As this is a political election, skewed questions with the goal of making one candidate look better than the other are also wholly appropriate!
While we wait for our candidates, feel free to voice the questions you wish our Candidates to answer. You can direct them to both/all candidates, or just to one of them. I'll be quietly sitting at that tiny desk in the corner, trying to keep things organized and moving.
EuchreJack sits at the desk patiently.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 17, 2022, 02:14:50 am
Anyway, the point I'm saying is that I'd rather pick reina over Roden but if you asked nicely, I'd probably vote for Roden.
webadict, would you please vote Roden?
I have every intention to completely ignore this.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 02:18:41 am
I have every intention to completely ignore this.
Oh?
Did I forget to mention that I actually have a BRIBE that I can offer?
The person whom I decide is most town, but not nominated, shall be bestowed a GREAT HONOR on Day 3.
...I mean, it'll probably be Webadict, but there is time for that to change.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 17, 2022, 02:23:47 am
I have every intention to completely ignore this.I concur!
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 02:32:55 am
Roden
Then Toonyman.
Day 3 will either be a frantic attempt by the Onyx to get someone else nominated, or it means that one (or more) among NQT, Roden, and Toonyman is Onyx.
So Day 3/4 is where the effort will occur.
So on Day 2, we can probably just rush Roden into nomination, then shorten.
Anyone find this format a bit less exciting than normal mafia? The lack of violence, for one thing.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 02:37:48 am
Any other vote manipulators, speak NOW.
Claim: On Day 3, I will be granting someone a permanent second election vote. I can't use it myself, unfortunately.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 17, 2022, 03:09:38 am
@Max: Please confirm or deny that you have two votes. I really need to know.Do you have a preference for which?
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 17, 2022, 03:52:35 am
Post by: notquitethere on May 17, 2022, 04:44:03 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 04:59:23 am
Okay, okay, since you're not answering, confirm. As the nephew of the Emperor, I have some extra influence on the process.Thanks, does that extend to the nomination phase only, or the election as well?
My ability, from what I can tell, only confers election votes. I'm unsure if they affect the 3rd day's nomination, but I'll check.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 17, 2022, 06:03:47 am
He’s smart
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 06:17:23 am
What if, I gave Max, who already has two (2) votes, my extra one (1) vote, AND agreed to Sheep Max for the remainder of the game with my one (1) regular vote?
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 07:06:25 am
I'm not feeling inspired by the Roden/reina dichotomy. Toony is Jade to the bone, I want him on the council.Nah, Roden. Toony is a D3 candidate, never earlier.
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 07:08:59 am
Noice! Two votes is always better than one! And who better than the mourner?
I have every intention to completely ignore this.
Oh?
Did I forget to mention that I actually have a BRIBE that I can offer?
The person whom I decide is most town, but not nominated, shall be bestowed a GREAT HONOR on Day 3.
...I mean, it'll probably be Webadict, but there is time for that to change.
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 07:12:42 am
Hypothetical:Tons of damage?
What if, I gave Max, who already has two (2) votes, my extra one (1) vote, AND agreed to Sheep Max for the remainder of the game with my one (1) regular vote?
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 17, 2022, 12:31:47 pm
Hypothetical:I guess I'd feel obligated to try harder?
What if, I gave Max, who already has two (2) votes, my extra one (1) vote, AND agreed to Sheep Max for the remainder of the game with my one (1) regular vote?
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 01:30:55 pm
Blink twice if you're being held hostage by the scumteam.Hypothetical:I guess I'd feel obligated to try harder?
What if, I gave Max, who already has two (2) votes, my extra one (1) vote, AND agreed to Sheep Max for the remainder of the game with my one (1) regular vote?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 03:10:07 pm
Why?I'm not feeling inspired by the Roden/reina dichotomy. Toony is Jade to the bone, I want him on the council.Nah, Roden. Toony is a D3 candidate, never earlier.
Thank you NQT, Jack, and Knightwing for the support. I will nominate myself for today. ToonyMan. This should force extreme action by the Onyx team, which will make the debate between Reina and Roden more clear.
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 03:36:11 pm
Because you're a strong player. Giving you anything other than Day 3 is just a mistake, since there's no good basis to judge performance on. Indeed, pushing for yourself Today will make it immediate grounds to never vote you, since you're inherently more suspicious for doing so. Is that the goal? To make yourself unable to be chosen as a final candidate? Because that's what making you a Day 2 candidate means to me. You know for a fact that there's nothing stopping you from being chosen Day 3, so why are you pushing for a nomination Today?Why?I'm not feeling inspired by the Roden/reina dichotomy. Toony is Jade to the bone, I want him on the council.Nah, Roden. Toony is a D3 candidate, never earlier.
Thank you NQT, Jack, and Knightwing for the support. I will nominate myself for today. ToonyMan. This should force extreme action by the Onyx team, which will make the debate between Reina and Roden more clear.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 04:09:22 pm
How is this wrong when players are divided between Reina and Roden? Nobody felt like answering my questions about Roden and Reina has been on but has not posted. In fact, almost everyone is in agreement about Roden (like with NQT), but Roden's candidacy is nowhere near the same as NQT's, why?
Is the value of me being possibly elected on D3 that much greater than Reina or Roden possibly being elected on D3? I would think it would be more telling to have the divided election on a more important day.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 04:11:46 pm
Hypothetical:@Toony: What are your thoughts based upon this hypothetical?
What if, I gave Max, who already has two (2) votes, my extra one (1) vote, AND agreed to Sheep Max for the remainder of the game with my one (1) regular vote?
Any conclusions you might be able to draw?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 04:20:05 pm
You shouldn't be sheeping players in the first place.Hypothetical:@Toony: What are your thoughts based upon this hypothetical?
What if, I gave Max, who already has two (2) votes, my extra one (1) vote, AND agreed to Sheep Max for the remainder of the game with my one (1) regular vote?
Any conclusions you might be able to draw?
Max already has two votes, what's your reasoning for giving him more?
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 04:25:29 pm
I feel like Reina has vocal detractors (it's not just Jim), while Roden does not. Is there anybody that's vehemently against Roden?This question?
No, Roden's fine. Roden's been fine the whole game. I said Roden was fine on Day 1.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 04:32:55 pm
Perhaps I'm being too subtle.that would be a firstYou shouldn't be sheeping players in the first place.Hypothetical:@Toony: What are your thoughts based upon this hypothetical?
What if, I gave Max, who already has two (2) votes, my extra one (1) vote, AND agreed to Sheep Max for the remainder of the game with my one (1) regular vote?
Any conclusions you might be able to draw?
Max already has two votes, what's your reasoning for giving him more?
How many players will be voting in the Day 4 Election?
Now, between Max & myself, how many votes do we have (including the one I can "give")?
Finally, if Max & I were both Onyx, how many townies would we need to bamboozle to win?
Recall: I have the ability to outright bribe one townie.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 04:34:14 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 04:36:28 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 04:40:10 pm
Do you trust Max?A fair question, but ignores the hypothetical.
My answer: I'm not sure. So, not yet.
Post by: Roden on May 17, 2022, 04:43:44 pm
Do you believe this candidacy is unnatural?Day 3 has the most potential for vote swing and for abilities to change up the game. I think you just know this and that you're afraid it can affect your chances of getting nominated on Day 3. Or, perhaps you have an ability that doesn't work/isn't effective unless you're nominated, and getting nominated Day 2 instead of Day 3 will let you use it sooner.
How is this wrong when players are divided between Reina and Roden? Nobody felt like answering my questions about Roden and Reina has been on but has not posted. In fact, almost everyone is in agreement about Roden (like with NQT), but Roden's candidacy is nowhere near the same as NQT's, why?
Is the value of me being possibly elected on D3 that much greater than Reina or Roden possibly being elected on D3? I would think it would be more telling to have the divided election on a more important day.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 04:46:58 pm
Is the value of me being possibly elected on D3 that much greater than Reina or Roden possibly being elected on D3? I would think it would be more telling to have the divided election on a more important day.Not to put words in Web's mouth, but I think the strategy is to get 3 townies nominated.
As a "strong" character, it is unlikely any other candidate will beat you Day 3. But Roden/Reina leaves the door open for scum to slip their preferred candidate onto the docket.
The secondary strategy is to keep repeating the candidate list of NQT, Roden/Reina, and Toonyman. In that order.
If nobody tries to upset that....one is an Onyx.
Interrupting the order sorta hinders that strategy.
...its suspicious you don't understand these things. Or choose not to understand them?
Ninja: Yeah, agree with Roden. +1 to that.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 04:48:42 pm
So now, candidate list is NQT/Roden/Toonyman.
Post by: Roden on May 17, 2022, 04:54:20 pm
Why Max and not Web? Do you not trust him?Do you trust Max?A fair question, but ignores the hypothetical.
My answer: I'm not sure. So, not yet.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 05:02:48 pm
At this point, I trust Web far more than I probably should.Why Max and not Web? Do you not trust him?Do you trust Max?A fair question, but ignores the hypothetical.
My answer: I'm not sure. So, not yet.
But my opinion of Web is not relevant to hypothetical, and in fact under the expanded hypo where Max & I are Onyx trying to rig the vote, Web isn't the one I would bribe to get the Onyx elected.
What, nobody wants to do the math?
Gonna make poor COVID brain EJ do the math? I mean, I already bungled it when I originally thought up the hypo.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 05:08:28 pm
Hypothetical:Fun with Math
What if, I gave Max, who already has two (2) votes, my extra one (1) vote, AND agreed to Sheep Max for the remainder of the game with my one (1) regular vote?
There are 10 players.
Subtract 3 nominees who can't vote.
There are 7 people electing the Emperor.
Max has 2 votes.
I have 1 vote.
I can give 1 vote, presumably to someone that will repay me by sheeping, thus adding 1 vote to the Triumvirate.
The Triumvirate now has 5 votes among 3 people.
4 people, presumably with only 1 vote a piece are NOT in the Triumvirate.
So, if Max & I were BOTH scum...we'd have already won, so long as our third scumbuddy could get nominated.
Ergo....it is unlikely Max & I are BOTH scum.I'm downright offended Toonyman refuses to acknowledge this
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 05:10:25 pm
But Roden/Reina leaves the door open for scum to slip their preferred candidate onto the docket.You really think so? You really think someone other than Roden or Reina will be nominated?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 05:13:44 pm
So, if Max & I were BOTH scum...we'd have already won, so long as our third scumbuddy could get nominated.1. If you're town: we don't know what mafia have.
Ergo....it is unlikely Max & I are BOTH scum.I'm downright offended Toonyman refuses to acknowledge this
2. If you're mafia: it's not unreasonable you could have a majority vote if you can get exactly one of your partners nominated.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 05:17:02 pm
If there is one thing I've learned playing in this subforum,But Roden/Reina leaves the door open for scum to slip their preferred candidate onto the docket.You really think so? You really think someone other than Roden or Reina will be nominated?
IS that each day is Separate and Unique from the previous Day.
What we think is likely/obvious on Day 2 may not be the case on Day 3. That is how mafia WINS. They wait for the change, then strike.
It'll take a strong leader on Day 3 to hold off the mafia hordes.
While I like Roden, and Roden is definitely town, you've already proven how easy it is to push them off the nominating block.
and Reina ain't here.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 05:22:11 pm
You and I have different definitions of unreasonable, apparently.So, if Max & I were BOTH scum...we'd have already won, so long as our third scumbuddy could get nominated.1. If you're town: we don't know what mafia have.
Ergo....it is unlikely Max & I are BOTH scum.I'm downright offended Toonyman refuses to acknowledge this
2. If you're mafia: it's not unreasonable you could have a majority vote if you can get exactly one of your partners nominated.
I would consider it unreasonable that mafia would have a such a clear path to majority if they get exactly one of their partners nominated.
Or to put it another way, I think it unreasonable that mafia would have such strength without town having some counter.
I only know what I have. It may exist to counter Max's ability. Or there may be a third vote manipulator, who is obviously Onyx since I explicitly called for all vote manipulator to claim.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 05:26:25 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 17, 2022, 05:28:09 pm
Having reflected on it, I don't see the benefit for scum to fake one of their number being unable to be nominated, I can only think of some very marginal scenarios where that would be useful as in general they want to maximise the possibility that one of them will be organically favoured by town.
(Onyx Web could be positioning himself as a sort of neutral kingmaker... what do we think?)
All to say, I'm town reading Web and so his argument holds weight to that extent. Actually there is something to be said for having clear headed electors left out of the council. But I also want a clean sweep.
Fallacy, is the emperor vote public like normal what happens if you are nominated?
Knightwing
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 05:29:36 pm
I would consider it unreasonable that mafia would have a such a clear path to majority if they get exactly one of their partners nominated.You know how much more difficult that would be? Town would likely have counter-play too. Like you just mentioned possibly between you and Max.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 05:32:48 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 05:35:07 pm
KnightwingI approve of this. It will also make Webadict bitch like crazy while quoting novels and make me a hypocrite wrt Jack.
Knightwing.
I have a much better read of Knightwing compared to Reina or Roden so I'm more comfortable with the candidacy.
PPE:
So Toonyman, why are you so eager for the Day 2 nomination?I don't care.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 05:38:01 pm
Reads
NQT
Knightwing
Webadict
Reina
Jim
Roden
Jack
Max
Egan
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 17, 2022, 05:44:52 pm
Fallacy, is the emperor vote public like normal what happens if you are nominated?The Election vote is just as public as the Nomination vote.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 17, 2022, 05:49:12 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 05:50:34 pm
I have a much better read of Knightwing compared to Reina or Roden so I'm more comfortable with the candidacy.WTF?
Are we even playing the same game?
If you're interested:
Reads
NQT
Knightwing
Webadict
Reina
Jim
Roden
Jack
Max
Egan
Ok, I'll counter that with:
Reads list
Everyone else
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Toonyman
At the bottom
As scum
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 05:52:27 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 17, 2022, 06:05:43 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 06:07:05 pm
I hope so.I have a much better read of Knightwing compared to Reina or Roden so I'm more comfortable with the candidacy.WTF?
Are we even playing the same game?
Ok, I'll counter that with:Sassy.
Reads list
Everyone else
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Toonyman
At the bottom
As scum
Or maybe Roden's scum game has gotten lots better. Like Roden climbed a mountain and meditated with a Mafia Guru for a couple weeks better.You really stick up for Roden. I could be wrong about Max, in which case I do not want you, Roden, or Egan elected.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 06:15:35 pm
I like the creative imagery you bring to the game EuchreJack. But if you think Toony is scum for support Knightwing, why isn't Knightwing at the bottom of your list?It was really more the poor read of Roden, and the high support of Knightwing. Knightwing himself is null to me.
Although this is fair.Or maybe Roden's scum game has gotten lots better. Like Roden climbed a mountain and meditated with a Mafia Guru for a couple weeks better.You really stick up for Roden. I could be wrong about Max, in which case I do not want you, Roden, or Egan elected.
I'm having issues with playing regular chess right now. 3D chess is beyond me.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 17, 2022, 06:21:00 pm
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 08:14:00 pm
It's only reina or Roden for me. I will accept no other substitutes. And Knightwing is at the bottom of the trash heap because it dilutes the nomination pool, so I'll say no with a side of fuck no.Or maybe Roden's scum game has gotten lots better. Like Roden climbed a mountain and meditated with a Mafia Guru for a couple weeks better.You really stick up for Roden. I could be wrong about Max, in which case I do not want you, Roden, or Egan elected.
Technically, I'd also vote for Jack, but that's not likely to be an option.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 17, 2022, 08:16:08 pm
It's only reina or Roden for me. I will accept no other substitutes. And Knightwing is at the bottom of the trash heap because it dilutes the nomination pool, so I'll say no with a side of fuck no.Or maybe Roden's scum game has gotten lots better. Like Roden climbed a mountain and meditated with a Mafia Guru for a couple weeks better.You really stick up for Roden. I could be wrong about Max, in which case I do not want you, Roden, or Egan elected.
Technically, I'd also vote for Jack, but that's not likely to be an option.
Damn, fuck you too then. If you don’t want to nominate me, just say so. You don’t have to be such a asshole about it. Jeez
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 08:21:00 pm
...sadly, that is how you know Web is probably town. Mafia!Web wouldn't care so much.It's only reina or Roden for me. I will accept no other substitutes. And Knightwing is at the bottom of the trash heap because it dilutes the nomination pool, so I'll say no with a side of fuck no.Or maybe Roden's scum game has gotten lots better. Like Roden climbed a mountain and meditated with a Mafia Guru for a couple weeks better.You really stick up for Roden. I could be wrong about Max, in which case I do not want you, Roden, or Egan elected.
Technically, I'd also vote for Jack, but that's not likely to be an option.
Damn, fuck you too then. If you don’t want to nominate me, just say so. You don’t have to be such a asshole about it. Jeez
Also...while my being elected Emperor would be ideal, I refuse to be nominated if I am unlikely to win the Election. I'm not keen to give up my vote for possible mafia to win.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 08:43:25 pm
It's only reina or Roden for me.Can everyone give their top2 now?
I'm willing to vote Reina or Knightwing.
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 08:53:16 pm
Damn, fuck you too then. If you don’t want to nominate me, just say so. You don’t have to be such a asshole about it. JeezNothing personal, kid. I just see you here posting things that aren't relevant, so that makes you scummy scummy scum scum.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 17, 2022, 08:54:06 pm
Quote from: The Nominated
- notquitethere
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 0
Roden - 3: Jim Groovester, Roden, webadict
Jim Groovester - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 2: notquitethere, ToonyMan
webadict - 0
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 1: Knightwing64
Votes Unused (4): Maximum Spin, Egan_BW, reina, EuchreJack
Day 2 will end at 8 PM Central time, Thursday the 19th - approximately 2 days from now. (As usual, please correct me if I missed a vote or such.)
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 08:56:24 pm
I don't value your opinion of Knightwing.Damn, fuck you too then. If you don’t want to nominate me, just say so. You don’t have to be such a asshole about it. JeezNothing personal, kid. I just see you here posting things that aren't relevant, so that makes you scummy scummy scum scum.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 08:57:03 pm
It's only reina or Roden for me.I'm willing to vote Reina or Knightwing.
WAIT A SEC.
So....no more Roden, who is present and posting.
Instead, you support Reina, who has said NOTHING?!
No vote to Reina until Reina earns it.
As for me...
Roden
I'm not too confident in anyone else, although dumping Max onto the Nominees to eliminate his double voting is a solid plan.
So yeah, Roden & Maximum Spin, with the understanding Maximum Spin never gets elected.
NINJA: Roden I choose you!
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 08:58:15 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 09:02:16 pm
Roden & Maximum Spin, with the understanding Maximum Spin never gets elected.Noted.
...I hope Toonyman can win back my support on Day 3. Right now I'm seeing them as lowest of the low, but hey maybe Toony has a plan.I don't think you've ever townread me in this game though? Now that I think about it I don't understand why you voted me today.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 09:05:28 pm
...I hope Toonyman can win back my support on Day 3. Right now I'm seeing them as lowest of the low, but hey maybe Toony has a plan.I don't think you've ever townread me in this game though? Now that I think about it I don't understand why you voted me today.
Web townread you. Frankly I've been too lazy to suss out your alignment.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 17, 2022, 09:09:45 pm
Frankly I've been too lazy to suss out your alignment.
...but you voted me as a candidate:
Yes, I too wish to see what happens when Toony ascends to the council.
Post by: webadict on May 17, 2022, 09:18:43 pm
Blah blah blah. He's sheeping me, and I say you're Town. No problem with that here, so long as he makes sure I'm not being silly.Frankly I've been too lazy to suss out your alignment.
...but you voted me as a candidate:Yes, I too wish to see what happens when Toony ascends to the council.
Aim your Toony beam somewhere else, plz.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 17, 2022, 09:21:09 pm
If you don’t know how to play chess, just copy what your opponent is doing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's only reina or Roden for me.Can everyone give their top2 now?
Already gave them. I'm okay with anybody out of you, Roden, EuchreJack, and Knightwing64.
It's only reina or Roden for me.I'm willing to vote Reina or Knightwing.
WAIT A SEC.
So....no more Roden, who is present and posting.
Instead, you support Reina, who has said NOTHING?!
No vote to Reina until Reina earns it.
Honestly this. reina has posted four times in four days.
If you have a town read on reina you are insane or disingenuous.
Quote from: The Nominated
- notquitethere
Quote from: VotecountEuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 0
Roden - 3: Jim Groovester, Roden, webadict
Jim Groovester - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 2: notquitethere, ToonyMan
webadict - 0
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 1: Knightwing64
Votes Unused (4): Maximum Spin, Egan_BW, reina, EuchreJack
Day 2 will end at 8 PM Central time, Thursday the 19th - approximately 2 days from now. (As usual, please correct me if I missed a vote or such.)
If a nomination doesn't have a clear supermajority do the odds increase or decrease that the player nominated is a member of the Onyx Cabal?
At this rate it might come down to what Maximum Spin thinks, and I don't see anybody engaging with them despite them being a double voter.
Maximum Spin, what do you think? Who do you want to nominate?
I don't expect Egan_BW will meaningfully contribute for the rest of the game.
webadict - Knightwing64 no, reina yes, Roden yes
ToonyMan - Knightwing64 yes, reina yes, Roden no
Jim Groovester - Knightwing64 yes, reina no, Roden yes
notquitethere - Knightwing64 yes, reina no, Roden no
Something strange is happening here. Somebody should make an associative graph that includes everybody's preferences but also includes players they do not want nominated as well.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 10:31:46 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 10:43:11 pm
Max's strategy of no-speak (Null, since Max has expressed this sort of strategy before): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373906#msg8373906 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373906#msg8373906)
Jim supporting Max: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373769;topicseen#msg8373769 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373769;topicseen#msg8373769)
Jim & Max "interacting without speaking": http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373338;topicseen#msg8373338 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373338;topicseen#msg8373338)
I could put Jim & Max on a scumteam together. So while I was going to say Jim looked town, this association has me still preferring Max the double voter be nominated in case I'm wrong.
At this point, I should probably just vote Roden and only Roden.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 17, 2022, 10:52:31 pm
At this rate it might come down to what Maximum Spin thinks, and I don't see anybody engaging with them despite them being a double voter.I think I might know who scum are now.
Maximum Spin, what do you think? Who do you want to nominate?
Big admission: I may have lied in a post earlier. I hate doing that. It was not about my alignment or my power. It was only about my reads.
I am comfortable being nominated day 3 if you guys want to nullify my power, since I obviously want to be on the council anyway, as the legitimate heir.
Jim & Max "interacting without speaking": http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373338;topicseen#msg8373338 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373338;topicseen#msg8373338)but his mom WAS accepting applications :(
Post by: EuchreJack on May 17, 2022, 11:12:39 pm
...and thus, the Legitimate Heir proved himself WorthyJim & Max "interacting without speaking": http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373338;topicseen#msg8373338 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373338;topicseen#msg8373338)but his mom WAS accepting applications :(
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 12:01:42 am
I don't know what's going on with Reina being away, however:
1. Egan is likely Onyx.
2. Egan and Reina are likely not on the same team. (I explain why at the end of D1)
Although it's true that it's hard to support a vacant candidate.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 12:10:43 am
@Jim:I couldn't find it, link please?
I don't know what's going on with Reina being away, however:
1. Egan is likely Onyx.
2. Egan and Reina are likely not on the same team. (I explain why at the end of D1)
Although it's true that it's hard to support a vacant candidate.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 12:12:17 am
I'm phone posting, sorry.@Jim:I couldn't find it, link please?
I don't know what's going on with Reina being away, however:
1. Egan is likely Onyx.
2. Egan and Reina are likely not on the same team. (I explain why at the end of D1)
Although it's true that it's hard to support a vacant candidate.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374104#msg8374104
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 01:16:16 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 01:25:02 am
I'll explain why in a little bit, when I come back.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 01:36:56 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 02:27:55 am
All right. I'm feeling activated right now. I'm in this again for the first time. So let me put it like this: If Egan is Onyx, we can end the game right now, town victory.Really? I got nothing for that? Maybe you don't deserve the explanation!
I'll explain why in a little bit, when I come back.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 18, 2022, 02:47:32 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 18, 2022, 02:54:18 am
Especially when it's the middle of the night.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 02:58:49 am
Hey, don't work yourself up over it. I'm intrigued.At least someone is! :P
Okay, here's the story.
I like to think I'm a pretty perceptive guy. Sure, I've made some mistakes, but on balance, more of my mistakes come from not trusting my gut than from trusting it. So I like to think I'm a pretty perceptive guy, and I think I've come to know Egan fairly well.
We don't have much in common in terms of... general life outlook, but he seems a decent fellow, and I hate to kill him. The most relevant thing to know about Egan, and this isn't flattering, but I've got to be blunt: he's kind of a sore loser.
Well, "sore" might not be the right word. He doesn't necessarily get angry, but when he decides he's not having fun anymore, such as because things aren't going his way, he pretty much tends to disengage immediately and (I assume) finds something else to do. Or maybe sits and stares at the wall, I dunno, I'm not his keeper.
Second most relevantly, Egan seems to love messing with people. (This is one of the few things we have in common.) If Egan were Onyx, and notquitethere were Onyx and made it to the first nomination with a unanimous vote, he'd be here loving every minute of it. If Egan is Onyx, he got bored and left because he sees no possible path to victory.
Therefore, if you believe Egan is Onyx, then we can all agree, right here and now, to skip to the end and declare notquitethere the Emperor. With Egan not paying attention, the only other person who should have any business opposing it is the third scum partner. Therefore, there's no reason to play out the rest of the days; we might as well call it here and force Fallacy to go along with it.
But, sadly, I don't think Egan is Onyx. (Which doesn't mean notquitethere isn't Jade - that would be denying the antecedent.) I think Egan probably disengaged for a reason I can hardly disagree with since I've been feeling much the same way: that he is actually Jade, but was scapegoated early on by the Dream Team and now sees no point trying to convince anyone of anything.
Here's an extra exercise. When ToonyMan and webadict don't fight, it is written, that means one or the other of them is scum. What does it mean when they only play-fight while seemingly agreeing on everything important?
But also screw you for playing like you're too cool for school all the time and then expecting everybody to hang at your every word at the drop of a hat when you actually do want to give a crap.Wow, I was only kidding around. I just wanted some reactions to gauge.
Especially when it's the middle of the night.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 03:07:07 am
Also, you don't see how hard I've been trying to get my head into this this whole time. Not always successfully, yeah, but don't act like I've been breezily disdaining everything when I've been bored out of my mind forcing myself to pay attention.But also screw you for playing like you're too cool for school all the time and then expecting everybody to hang at your every word at the drop of a hat when you actually do want to give a crap.Wow, I was only kidding around. I just wanted some reactions to gauge.
Especially when it's the middle of the night.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 18, 2022, 03:20:41 am
But, sadly, I don't think Egan is Onyx. (Which doesn't mean notquitethere isn't Jade - that would be denying the antecedent.) I think Egan probably disengaged for a reason I can hardly disagree with since I've been feeling much the same way: that he is actually Jade, but was scapegoated early on by the Dream Team and now sees no point trying to convince anyone of anything.
Here's an extra exercise. When ToonyMan and webadict don't fight, it is written, that means one or the other of them is scum. What does it mean when they only play-fight while seemingly agreeing on everything important?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Are you still opposed to reina for roughly the same reasons I am?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 18, 2022, 03:22:55 am
Are you still opposed to reina for roughly the same reasons I am?
I know you expressed opposition to reina previously but maybe it wasn't for the same reasons I have.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 03:25:54 am
I'm still opposed, though. I think that's #3. Go back and take a look at the first handful (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373311#msg8373311) of posts... big turnaround for that to be the thing they're now agreeing/bargaining about, right?
Post by: Roden on May 18, 2022, 03:47:45 am
I agree with the meta read on Web. That actually somewhat eases my concerns with him....sadly, that is how you know Web is probably town. Mafia!Web wouldn't care so much.It's only reina or Roden for me. I will accept no other substitutes. And Knightwing is at the bottom of the trash heap because it dilutes the nomination pool, so I'll say no with a side of fuck no.Or maybe Roden's scum game has gotten lots better. Like Roden climbed a mountain and meditated with a Mafia Guru for a couple weeks better.You really stick up for Roden. I could be wrong about Max, in which case I do not want you, Roden, or Egan elected.
Technically, I'd also vote for Jack, but that's not likely to be an option.
Damn, fuck you too then. If you don’t want to nominate me, just say so. You don’t have to be such a asshole about it. Jeez
Also...while my being elected Emperor would be ideal, I refuse to be nominated if I am unlikely to win the Election. I'm not keen to give up my vote for possible mafia to win.
Post by: Roden on May 18, 2022, 04:03:24 am
Ok Max is town. I agree a lot with this general thought process, though I'm not so sure about Egan being town. Regardless, I don't want Egan to feel left out, it isn't fun to get shut down.Hey, don't work yourself up over it. I'm intrigued.At least someone is! :P
Okay, here's the story.
I like to think I'm a pretty perceptive guy. Sure, I've made some mistakes, but on balance, more of my mistakes come from not trusting my gut than from trusting it. So I like to think I'm a pretty perceptive guy, and I think I've come to know Egan fairly well.
We don't have much in common in terms of... general life outlook, but he seems a decent fellow, and I hate to kill him. The most relevant thing to know about Egan, and this isn't flattering, but I've got to be blunt: he's kind of a sore loser.
Well, "sore" might not be the right word. He doesn't necessarily get angry, but when he decides he's not having fun anymore, such as because things aren't going his way, he pretty much tends to disengage immediately and (I assume) finds something else to do. Or maybe sits and stares at the wall, I dunno, I'm not his keeper.
Second most relevantly, Egan seems to love messing with people. (This is one of the few things we have in common.) If Egan were Onyx, and notquitethere were Onyx and made it to the first nomination with a unanimous vote, he'd be here loving every minute of it. If Egan is Onyx, he got bored and left because he sees no possible path to victory.
Therefore, if you believe Egan is Onyx, then we can all agree, right here and now, to skip to the end and declare notquitethere the Emperor. With Egan not paying attention, the only other person who should have any business opposing it is the third scum partner. Therefore, there's no reason to play out the rest of the days; we might as well call it here and force Fallacy to go along with it.
But, sadly, I don't think Egan is Onyx. (Which doesn't mean notquitethere isn't Jade - that would be denying the antecedent.) I think Egan probably disengaged for a reason I can hardly disagree with since I've been feeling much the same way: that he is actually Jade, but was scapegoated early on by the Dream Team and now sees no point trying to convince anyone of anything.
Here's an extra exercise. When ToonyMan and webadict don't fight, it is written, that means one or the other of them is scum. What does it mean when they only play-fight while seemingly agreeing on everything important?But also screw you for playing like you're too cool for school all the time and then expecting everybody to hang at your every word at the drop of a hat when you actually do want to give a crap.Wow, I was only kidding around. I just wanted some reactions to gauge.
Especially when it's the middle of the night.
Post by: Roden on May 18, 2022, 04:10:24 am
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 18, 2022, 05:29:02 am
Post by: webadict on May 18, 2022, 06:20:29 am
I think it's weird that Toony and Web both town read me, but prefer other nominations and aren't really arguing with each other. I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all. I think Knightwing is town, but I don't think he ever beats NQT in an election without a Town result from a Cop, and even that isn't entirely certain.Sadly, or maybe not sadly, idk, I am regular Jade. I swapped to you because reina wasn't posting and Jim asked me to swap, so it's not a big deal to me to vote you. It also gave Jim some Town points, so whatevs.
The reason I don't want Knightwing is precisely that: Even if Knightwing is Town, it becomes a two-person race. If I get you on the council, I can be pretty sure you’ll be an excellent vote for emperor. Technically, if you are sure Max is Town..., then I am willing to trust Max here. I will shift my D3 nomination to Max (though I am unlikely to vote for him as emperor if you are a vote.)
If you want to know, that's precisely why I lied about being in a Sect. I understand that my being nominated turns the election into a two-person race, and not in a good way, so I have to rely on other people being able to be read better than me. Also, I'm trying to be a bit more malleable in my reading process, so it's a good challenge. If anyone thinks that's scummy, eh, whatever, don't vote for me then. But, if you think I am Town, ALSO don't vote for me. I am not going to be selected, and I will dilute the pool, and the chance of NQT and the other person being Onyx is nonzero (though, admittedly, pretty low), which basically fucks Town.
Also, my flavortext is fitting for someone that doesn't want to be nominated, so it fits for me to not want to be nominated RP wise. I am still in mourning, to be nominated or elected would be to trample upon the emperor's good name. So, I will be a good elector, and find the best emperor to replace him.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 06:55:29 am
That explains my confusion, since I could only see you in a Sect with Roden.
@Max:
You think I'm playfighting with Web? Oh, is that because we mutually townread each other but don't appear to get along? I can understand that mentality.
I think you're wrong about Egan though, and would gladly take your bet to just Emperor NQT right on the spot now.
@Roden:
I definitely don't agree with some of Web's views.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 07:06:27 am
I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all.I seem to recall voting for myself after three players showed me support, during Reina"s absence and continued absence.
Post by: webadict on May 18, 2022, 08:48:42 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 09:07:49 am
Toony, do you think you'd be better as an elector than a candidate?Depends how many people trust me. Unlike Jack and Max I have no powers to contribute on a potential D4. If not enough people trust me then I can prove my worth through my own skills. If a Day 4 doesn't occur then it's no skin off my back, but I would like to know from the Onyx Cabal what went wrong for them.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 09:14:57 am
If not enough people trust me then I can prove my worth through my own skills.What I mean by this is that if people don't think I'm town enough for the council I can at least do my best to pick an Emperor should a D4 occur.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 12:23:30 pm
would gladly take your bet to just Emperor NQT right on the spot now.I wouldn't call it a bet, but, all right, anyone else willing to go for it?
Post by: webadict on May 18, 2022, 01:06:46 pm
Nah, I'd rather bet on Roden. You can call me scum for that if you want.would gladly take your bet to just Emperor NQT right on the spot now.I wouldn't call it a bet, but, all right, anyone else willing to go for it?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 01:13:04 pm
Why are you that confident in Roden?Nah, I'd rather bet on Roden. You can call me scum for that if you want.would gladly take your bet to just Emperor NQT right on the spot now.I wouldn't call it a bet, but, all right, anyone else willing to go for it?
Does it have something to do with this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373414#msg8373414)? I thought you two were in a sect because of it, which has now been revealed to be a fib.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 02:43:20 pm
Post by: webadict on May 18, 2022, 03:05:43 pm
We could always just nominate me and declare me emperor as the compromise candidate.Shoot, what a tempting offer.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 03:18:41 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 04:24:54 pm
Now THAT is a true Political Candidate.We could always just nominate me and declare me emperor as the compromise candidate.Shoot, what a tempting offer.
...waitaminute, isn't that how we end up with Emperor Palpatine?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 04:29:44 pm
Town:
Roden
webadict
Jim Groovester
Maximum Spin
notquitethere
Knightwing64
Proposed Scum Team:
Egan_BW, reina, ToonyMan
Current theory on scum team: Toony is basically running solo, as both reina & Egan_BW have abandoned the game
I mean, just look at how ToonyMan has jockeyed the vote to get himself elected. I think he'd prefer reina, yet he knows reina disappeared from probably the scumchat as well as this thread. So he's scrambling to try to get himself elected as the only viable member of the scumteam.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 04:53:41 pm
Proposed Scum Team:...How am I pushing for myself? I've explained why I voted for myself today (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374735#msg8374735): players were nominating Roden instead of Reina while at the same time three other players had voted for me in succession (INCLUDING YOU). You keep saying this over and over (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374736#msg8374736) again when it isn't true.
Egan_BW, reina, ToonyMan
Current theory on scum team: Toony is basically running solo, as both reina & Egan_BW have abandoned the game
I mean, just look at how ToonyMan has jockeyed the vote to get himself elected. I think he'd prefer reina, yet he knows reina disappeared from probably the scumchat as well as this thread. So he's scrambling to try to get himself elected as the only viable member of the scumteam.
Your proposed scum team implies I got the scum shit stick again, in which case why have I been in a good mood for most of this game?
I find you suspicious, there are multiple reasons I can immediately think of from playing and observing:
1. The way you voted me between NQT and Knightwing and then "slipped the rug" from under my feet while going "gotcha" is suspicious.
2. Something very similar (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373354#msg8373354) happened to Jim on D1 with you and Egan voting him.
3. The way you keep pushing for Roden (on D1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373587#msg8373587) and D2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374531#msg8374531)[2] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374787#msg8374787)) is suspicious.
I was hoping NQT could grace Jim's request here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374794#msg8374794), but the activity has been low D2 from some players. I'm going to have to pull up my pants and do my own analysis, although I would still like to hear from players such as EGANIAMLOST, and NOTQUITEAROUND, and WHEREREINA.
Post by: Roden on May 18, 2022, 04:58:21 pm
Are you denying that you've been pushing for a Reina nomination?I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all.I seem to recall voting for myself after three players showed me support, during Reina"s absence and continued absence.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 05:04:45 pm
Why don't you share why you think Egan is Onyx?
1. They're not cooperative when being inquired:
I don't support myself, fuck that guy. My council is Meph, Fal, and Mamobo.
2. They voted for Web end of D1:
Uhh, Webadict then. It's not gonna win the vote but whatever. Also Shorten.
3. They haven't posted at all for D2! They're literally on right now. I don't want to be a downer, so I'm not holding any grievances if you want to post something Egan.
Reina hasn't posted at all for D2 either, so that is a fair argument and the biggest reason I haven't voted for them.
PPE:
I haven't voted for them today, but yes I was planning on voting Reina today and was likely going to push for their nomination if they were around. But they haven't been around, so that's why I voted myself and then Knightwing.Are you denying that you've been pushing for a Reina nomination?I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all.I seem to recall voting for myself after three players showed me support, during Reina"s absence and continued absence.
Post by: Roden on May 18, 2022, 05:17:54 pm
This answer is more informative but just exposes that you tried to side step my original observation, and I don't see a townie reason for doing so.I haven't voted for them today, but yes I was planning on voting Reina today and was likely going to push for their nomination if they were around. But they haven't been around, so that's why I voted myself and then Knightwing.Are you denying that you've been pushing for a Reina nomination?I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all.I seem to recall voting for myself after three players showed me support, during Reina"s absence and continued absence.
Also...Knightwing? Why do you want him nominated?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 05:25:57 pm
Also...Knightwing? Why do you want him nominated?Because he's my second highest town read after NQT, maybe even higher now.
I'm mixed at the beginning. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373311#msg8373311)
I get a townread here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373449#msg8373449)
Me mumbling to myself (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373582#msg8373582), I'm internally questioning whether mafia!Knightwing plays like this and I come to the conclusion that no, he doesn't.
Max townreads Knightwing, which I weigh heavily. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374415#msg8374415)
(Webadict also scumreads Knightwing, which I weigh oppositely.)
In conclusion it's a very strong townread.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 18, 2022, 05:27:04 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 18, 2022, 05:27:34 pm
2. They voted for Web end of D1:What's wrong with voting for Web? I mean, I wouldn't, but come on, you didn't believe his weird sects thing, right?
Post by: Mamobo on May 18, 2022, 05:28:49 pm
------------------------
Roden - 4 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374504#msg8374504), Roden* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374516#msg8374516), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374622#msg8374622), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374787#msg8374787),
Knightwing64 - 2 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374734#msg8374734), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374737#msg8374737),
ToonyMan - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374614#msg8374614),
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
reina - 0 -
webadict - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 3 - Egan_BW, Maximum Spin, reina,
Day ends on May 04, 2022 at 13:00 CDT (-340 hours and -27 minutes remaining.)
Post by: webadict on May 18, 2022, 05:29:17 pm
You leave my weird sects stuff outta this.2. They voted for Web end of D1:What's wrong with voting for Web? I mean, I wouldn't, but come on, you didn't believe his weird sects thing, right?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 05:29:55 pm
Um, what Toony said?What do you think of Jack and Roden?
I did actually believe his claim because I'm dumb. At the time it made sense to me that he was likely with Roden.2. They voted for Web end of D1:What's wrong with voting for Web? I mean, I wouldn't, but come on, you didn't believe his weird sects thing, right?
Post by: notquitethere on May 18, 2022, 05:31:56 pm
EuchreJack's position on Toony doesn't seem to be well reasoned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was me who initiated voting for him today! How is that him jockeying?
Either this is a mistaken line of enquiry, or Jack is actually just scum.
I'm mega tired at the moment, I can see that Web claims to be lying about the sect thing, but I'm not sure I understand his current claim and rationale for it.
It's curious that Knightwing isn't voting for himself. Or that anyone else is voting KW. Makes me feel good about him.
I want to see votes from Max, Reina and Egan. Being last to vote is a bad look.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 05:35:09 pm
Post by: webadict on May 18, 2022, 05:39:40 pm
NQT, I believe today may have revealed the Onyx team is Jack/Roden and either Egan or Max. Most likely Egan.Lol, fucking WHAT?!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 05:47:06 pm
Yes, bask in my glory. Have your brain CONFOUNDED. I know you've learned nothing so I will teach you in this game.NQT, I believe today may have revealed the Onyx team is Jack/Roden and either Egan or Max. Most likely Egan.Lol, fucking WHAT?!
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 06:01:54 pm
Please Instruct Us, Teacher-san!Yes, bask in my glory. Have your brain CONFOUNDED. I know you've learned nothing so I will teach you in this game.NQT, I believe today may have revealed the Onyx team is Jack/Roden and either Egan or Max. Most likely Egan.Lol, fucking WHAT?!
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 06:25:50 pm
I can also see how Toonyman has been quite helpful and solvey during the game, and thus how many could see Toonyman as town due to that. In fact, I'm reassessing Toonyman myself due to that behavior. But, I also believe Toonyman quite capable of faking that behavior as scum.
Inspired the Champs game, I'm going to take a whirl at an ISO on Toonyman. I'm sure it isn't going to be very good, but hey, that is how you get better!
Final note: As I am not seeking a nomination, but instead will inspire to vote a worthy Jade candidate to Emperor, I really don't care if I look scummy other than it makes me less persuasive when trying to sway the votes of others towards a worthy Jade candidate for Emperor.
Post by: webadict on May 18, 2022, 06:59:51 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 08:13:40 pm
No offense to Most Honorable Imperial Candidate Notquitethere, but reviewing Toonyman's post reveals that if (yes if) Toonyman is scum, he could very well be on a scum team with NQT. Note how NQT & Toonyman has supported one another the entire game.Unlikely. You cannot claim I'm desperately jockeying for a D2 candidacy in one breath and then say I'm possibly partners with NQT in the other, unless you want to argue I'm that much of a tryhard, which again I was never "jockeying" in the first place.
An ISO of me would be interesting though. I should be more clear of my suspicions of you and Roden I think, to convince others.
Toony, pick two more candidates that don't include you.Reina is absent, so Knightwing and Jim.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 08:41:10 pm
No offense to Most Honorable Imperial Candidate Notquitethere, but reviewing Toonyman's post reveals that if (yes if) Toonyman is scum, he could very well be on a scum team with NQT. Note how NQT & Toonyman has supported one another the entire game.Unlikely. You cannot claim I'm desperately jockeying for a D2 candidacy in one breath and then say I'm possibly partners with NQT in the other, unless you want to argue I'm that much of a tryhard, which again I was never "jockeying" in the first place.
An ISO of me would be interesting though. I should be more clear of my suspicions of you and Roden I think, to convince others.Toony, pick two more candidates that don't include you.Reina is absent, so Knightwing and Jim.
WTF? It'll make sense after you read the ISO
Whom Does Toonyman Want as Emperor? A Toonyman ISO
First, the joke about Jim being King again. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373261#msg8373261)
Then a vote for NQT (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373264#msg8373264) which sticks for the entire day I think.
I think anybody who plays humble is probably scum. Although the fact you're aware of this makes it moot if you're scum so whatever. But at the same time, would you say this out loud in the first place if you were mafia? It's something to think about for sure.
So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?If we can fully trust one player as town then I don't see how we could actually lose.
Oh, I can make it even better. We're not voting any one of the three of you! Ever! Thank me later.Cold of you to exclude notquitethere like that.Maximum SpinEgan_BWreinaSpoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/MCITI2u.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)(https://i.imgur.com/Mhk0DQK.gif)
ToonyMan - Jade
NQT - obviously Jade
Jim - probably Jade
Webadict - probably Jade
Knightwing - ???
Roden - ???
Jack - ???
Maximum - likely Onyx
Egan - likely Onyx
reina - likely Onyx
are you seriously scumreading me because I got to the thread later than nqtThat does seem unfair.
Okay, you're the least suspicious of the three. But still not a good nominee.
Toony then starts townreading Knightwing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373449#msg8373449)
Webadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.
Jim seems extremely goofy and I feel like they're town. I was right about this when they were posting in ALL CAPS for SBYOR2.
NQT is a ghost, but a ghost we must elect.
Jack's opener (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373342#msg8373342) is very sterile and NAI. I can't tell either way right now. They're pointing things out and solving, but I don't see any big clears. Cautionarily precautious for the time being.
But we need one member of the Onyx Cabal in the final election if we're going to elect an Emperor, otherwise we get the Jade Council ending which is lame.Personally, I agree. Having the game go to a Phase 2 is much more interesting. But this does play against my wincon and I'm not striving for it.
I have a question even though I already know the answer: Do you really believe NQT is a Jade loyalist?
Toony accepting a nomination from Web, and insisting it's "serious". (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.105)
This is some big brain shit.Sounds legitPpe: Egan, tell me what scum's strategy most likely will beVoting cabal for emperor and not court?
So here, Toonyman seems to be encouraging Knightwing to run for a nomination. Important since Toonyman is currently promoting/voting Knightwing.On a continued think, I find this very interesting. Why hasn't Knightwing voted yet? They've been around and posting. I'm fairly sure they would have voted now, even themselves, but they haven't. Is this reservation because they don't know who to follow? But they also haven't voted themselves, maybe because they aren't confident they could win a nomination?Votes Unused (1): Knightwing64Knightwing, why aren't you voting??
What are you thinking Knightwing?
@Reina:I tend to believe that Toonyman has in fact been jockying for himself, NQT & Knightwing for the entire game, and everything else has been to secure that specific council.
I still support NQT.
How about we propose councils?
I'm most comfortable with myself, NQT, Knightwing.
Toonyman latching onto the theory that Roden can't be nominated. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373691#msg8373691)
I'm not comfortable with Jack, but I could support Reina. They keep pushing themselves with work and effort but have seen no outside support (until now I suppose). This means they're either town or scum completely flying solo.Hm, so Reina was a compromise. We really can't know since Reina disappeared and became unviable.
Jim Groovester (and ToonyMan?) might actually be in a sect that requires a Jade Emperor (Or rather, requires a vote on Day 4 to win, since that's the less alignment specific one.)That's crazy talk.
Toony's analysis of Day 1 Proposed Councils, noting he was tied with Reina & Roden in what he labelled "second tier" (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374104#msg8374104)
Insightful stuff (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374105#msg8374105)
I'm thinking it was done to intentionally reset the shorten votes in order to drag out the day and build apathy.It's working.
Bargaining??
Unlike Jim and Max I'm okay with Reina in the council, but I'll only concede my vote to them if I have no chance at the nomination tomorrow.
Yep. You're the only one I'd be willing to bargain with because I know you'd be willing to give up your seat if you saw someone Townier available, even if you vocally disagree with that statement.I would argue that doesn't make any sense, but I did give up my seat for NQT today.Given the previous game I weigh this opinion rather heavily.and Knightwing could be scum, but he could also be extremely confused, but I can't say for sure which is which.For the record, I think Knightwing is probably town. He could just be hiding it better after last time, but given my current field of candidates, it's somewhat less likely that he's being coached, so I'm just going to stick with the simpler option for now.
This post is a copy from between D1 and D2 that I made by accident:@Toony & Web: How exactly are Jim and I not on the same team? I'm not seeing it. Please explain, as I would like to see it.What I mean is that I don't think you're both mafia. I feel like the grievances Jim is showing of you is very natural. He mocks you here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373492#msg8373492) He implies you're Onyx here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373875#msg8373875) He supports Roden's caution of you here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373769#msg8373769) This reasons you're both town or only one of you is scum.Toony, I think, just wants to be nominated. Look at how Toony clears away anyone that might possibly get nominated.What do you mean? I would like to be nominated, but I'm not shutting down players I think are town.
Haaaaaa, who do I support: Reina or Roden?
(anybody notice something odd with the D1 vote count?)
I think Reina is the right pick between the two, for various reasons...
Knightwing, what do you think about Reina?
I feel like Reina has vocal detractors (it's not just Jim), while Roden does not. Is there anybody that's vehemently against Roden?
Hm, maybe?Why?I'm not feeling inspired by the Roden/reina dichotomy. Toony is Jade to the bone, I want him on the council.Nah, Roden. Toony is a D3 candidate, never earlier.
Thank you NQT, Jack, and Knightwing for the support. I will nominate myself for today. ToonyMan. This should force extreme action by the Onyx team, which will make the debate between Reina and Roden more clear.
Funny how Toony never figures this as MY reason for voting him...
Do you believe this candidacy is unnatural?YES YES YES, I DO believe this candidacy is unnatural!
How is this wrong when players are divided between Reina and Roden? Nobody felt like answering my questions about Roden and Reina has been on but has not posted. In fact, almost everyone is in agreement about Roden (like with NQT), but Roden's candidacy is nowhere near the same as NQT's, why?
Is the value of me being possibly elected on D3 that much greater than Reina or Roden possibly being elected on D3? I would think it would be more telling to have the divided election on a more important day.
I can see the pendulum swinging from Reina to Roden, and I would rather vote myself than Roden.
But Roden/Reina leaves the door open for scum to slip their preferred candidate onto the docket.You really think so? You really think someone other than Roden or Reina will be nominated?
I'm apprehensive about Roden, call it hedging my bets. Roden has near universal support, including the D1 nominee NQT. I was probably going to vote Reina after people posted on D2, but players showed support for me while at the same time the Reina detractors had made Roden a favorite between the two. I have middling town reads of both players, so I know it's difficult. I'm mainly observing the difference in opinion players have between the two.Is this post honest?
KnightwingI approve of this. It will also make Webadict bitch like crazy while quoting novels and make me a hypocrite wrt Jack.
Knightwing.
I have a much better read of Knightwing compared to Reina or Roden so I'm more comfortable with the candidacy.
PPE:So Toonyman, why are you so eager for the Day 2 nomination?I don't care.
If you're interested:
Reads
NQT
Knightwing
Webadict
Reina
Jim
Roden
Jack
Max
Egan
Or maybe Roden's scum game has gotten lots better. Like Roden climbed a mountain and meditated with a Mafia Guru for a couple weeks better.You really stick up for Roden. I could be wrong about Max, in which case I do not want you, Roden, or Egan elected.
It's only reina or Roden for me.Can everyone give their top2 now?
I'm willing to vote Reina or Knightwing.
I don't value your opinion of Knightwing.Damn, fuck you too then. If you don’t want to nominate me, just say so. You don’t have to be such a asshole about it. JeezNothing personal, kid. I just see you here posting things that aren't relevant, so that makes you scummy scummy scum scum.
@Jim:
I don't know what's going on with Reina being away, however:
1. Egan is likely Onyx.
2. Egan and Reina are likely not on the same team. (I explain why at the end of D1)
Although it's true that it's hard to support a vacant candidate.
I actually still don't understand what Toonyman is talking about here. Please explain Toonyman.I'm phone posting, sorry.@Jim:I couldn't find it, link please?
I don't know what's going on with Reina being away, however:
1. Egan is likely Onyx.
2. Egan and Reina are likely not on the same team. (I explain why at the end of D1)
Although it's true that it's hard to support a vacant candidate.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374104#msg8374104
I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all.I seem to recall voting for myself after three players showed me support, during Reina"s absence and continued absence.
Toony, do you think you'd be better as an elector than a candidate?Depends how many people trust me. Unlike Jack and Max I have no powers to contribute on a potential D4. If not enough people trust me then I can prove my worth through my own skills. If a Day 4 doesn't occur then it's no skin off my back, but I would like to know from the Onyx Cabal what went wrong for them.
If not enough people trust me then I can prove my worth through my own skills.What I mean by this is that if people don't think I'm town enough for the council I can at least do my best to pick an Emperor should a D4 occur.
How can we oppose the late Emperor's nephew?That being Maximum Spin, by the way.
(too good not to quote)Proposed Scum Team:...How am I pushing for myself? I've explained why I voted for myself today (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374735#msg8374735): players were nominating Roden instead of Reina while at the same time three other players had voted for me in succession (INCLUDING YOU). You keep saying this over and over (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374736#msg8374736) again when it isn't true.
Egan_BW, reina, ToonyMan
Current theory on scum team: Toony is basically running solo, as both reina & Egan_BW have abandoned the game
I mean, just look at how ToonyMan has jockeyed the vote to get himself elected. I think he'd prefer reina, yet he knows reina disappeared from probably the scumchat as well as this thread. So he's scrambling to try to get himself elected as the only viable member of the scumteam.
Your proposed scum team implies I got the scum shit stick again, in which case why have I been in a good mood for most of this game?
I find you suspicious, there are multiple reasons I can immediately think of from playing and observing:
1. The way you voted me between NQT and Knightwing and then "slipped the rug" from under my feet while going "gotcha" is suspicious.
2. Something very similar (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373354#msg8373354) happened to Jim on D1 with you and Egan voting him.
3. The way you keep pushing for Roden (on D1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373587#msg8373587) and D2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374531#msg8374531)[2] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374787#msg8374787)) is suspicious.
I was hoping NQT could grace Jim's request here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374794#msg8374794), but the activity has been low D2 from some players. I'm going to have to pull up my pants and do my own analysis, although I would still like to hear from players such as EGANIAMLOST, and NOTQUITEAROUND, and WHEREREINA.
Why don't you share why you think Egan is Onyx?
1. They're not cooperative when being inquired:I don't support myself, fuck that guy. My council is Meph, Fal, and Mamobo.
2. They voted for Web end of D1:Uhh, Webadict then. It's not gonna win the vote but whatever. Also Shorten.
3. They haven't posted at all for D2! They're literally on right now. I don't want to be a downer, so I'm not holding any grievances if you want to post something Egan.
Reina hasn't posted at all for D2 either, so that is a fair argument and the biggest reason I haven't voted for them.
PPE:I haven't voted for them today, but yes I was planning on voting Reina today and was likely going to push for their nomination if they were around. But they haven't been around, so that's why I voted myself and then Knightwing.Are you denying that you've been pushing for a Reina nomination?I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all.I seem to recall voting for myself after three players showed me support, during Reina"s absence and continued absence.
Also...Knightwing? Why do you want him nominated?Because he's my second highest town read after NQT, maybe even higher now.
I'm mixed at the beginning. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373311#msg8373311)
I get a townread here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373449#msg8373449)
Me mumbling to myself (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373582#msg8373582), I'm internally questioning whether mafia!Knightwing plays like this and I come to the conclusion that no, he doesn't.
Max townreads Knightwing, which I weigh heavily. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374415#msg8374415)
(Webadict also scumreads Knightwing, which I weigh oppositely.)
In conclusion it's a very strong townread.
So, overall ToonyMan seems to campaigning to get NQT, Knightwing, and himself nominated, because as he so eloquently stated, "If we can fully trust one player as town then I don't see how we could actually lose." And in addition, I think his self-promotion has aligned with his theory that "I think anybody who plays humble is probably scum."
But he refuses to admit that is the game he is playing. To me, there is something artificial about the way Toonyman has been acting. Like instead of being a Town player following a Town strategy, he is instead an Onyx player following a Town strategy.
...then again, Toonyman IS a political candidate, so maybe he's intentionally being slimy to better fit the part?
Also, if Toony is scum, there is maybe a 50/50 chance it is with NQT. They've been supporting each other all game (it's two directional). But I don't really need to ISO NQT until day 4, a day that might not come if NQT is town, so...pass on reading NQT's alignment.
(conclusion written before reading the top quote from Toony, followed by the WTF?)
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 08:43:07 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 08:52:10 pm
*EJ assumes the fetal position*
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 18, 2022, 08:54:35 pm
Quote from: The Nominated
- notquitethere
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
Maximum Spin - 0
Roden - 4: Jim Groovester, Roden, webadict, EuchreJack
Jim Groovester - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 2: notquitethere, ToonyMan
webadict - 0
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 1: Knightwing64
Votes Unused (3): Maximum Spin, Egan_BW, reina
Day 2 will end at 8 PM Central time, Thursday the 19th - approximately 24 hours from now.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 18, 2022, 09:09:21 pm
Since I'm still a n00b at ISO writing, and I know it needs work, I'd welcome constructive criticism.Fully constructive feedback:
*EJ assumes the fetal position*
I wouldn't include quotes you aren't responding to, it'll make it more concise and easier to look at. You could put them in a spoiler, or personally my favorite is creating a hyperlink to the post in question. Also maybe don't include lines where you're just summarizing. Unless you think it's relevant to a later passage. I'm really proud of my ISOs (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8286404#msg8286404) of Jim/Bluarian/NQT at the end of Roguelike Mafia 7 as an example. Although that was me on a full-time "working from home" schedule.
Your end results need to be more assertive. The summary is nice, but it reads more like "Results: Inconclusive".
I'm phone posting, sorry.I actually still don't understand what Toonyman is talking about here. Please explain Toonyman.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374104#msg8374104
Here:
Personally, I think Scenario #2 or #3 is most likely. Scenario #1 is too blatant, it's unlikely that Reina and Egan are both mafia. It comes down to whether NQT is town or not, and he probably is.
Speaking of work, I'm kind of swamped with a project this week so I'm not confident I can give a detailed explanation tonight of why I believe Jack and Roden are scum. I will try to at least have something tomorrow when I'm on a computer that doesn't block bay12forums...
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 09:17:16 pm
So my concern is that usually when I'm unsure of Toonyman's alignment, it is because Toonyman is scum.
In other words, I can usually townread Toonyman quite well, but I have difficulties scumreading Toonyman.
@Toonyman: What is your read on Web?
Post by: webadict on May 18, 2022, 09:46:54 pm
My personal take on this is purely written in expletives if you somehow think Euchre AND Roden are scum. No fucking way.Personally, I think Scenario #2 or #3 is most likely. Scenario #1 is too blatant, it's unlikely that Reina and Egan are both mafia. It comes down to whether NQT is town or not, and he probably is.
Speaking of work, I'm kind of swamped with a project this week so I'm not confident I can give a detailed explanation tonight of why I believe Jack and Roden are scum. I will try to at least have something tomorrow when I'm on a computer that doesn't block bay12forums...
@Fallacy: Can we get a poke on reina and Egan_BW? Having missing players only hurts us.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 09:57:57 pm
Toonyman Beats out Real Candidates by Breaking Promises BEFORE Election Day!
Post by: Roden on May 18, 2022, 11:26:34 pm
I town read him too but that doesn't really matter, I don't see him getting elected over NQT. I'd only vote him in on Day 3 if I felt confident the other two nominations were obviously town so that we could get a perfect town victory and skip Day 4.Also...Knightwing? Why do you want him nominated?Because he's my second highest town read after NQT, maybe even higher now.
I'm mixed at the beginning. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373311#msg8373311)
I get a townread here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373449#msg8373449)
Me mumbling to myself (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373582#msg8373582), I'm internally questioning whether mafia!Knightwing plays like this and I come to the conclusion that no, he doesn't.
Max townreads Knightwing, which I weigh heavily. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374415#msg8374415)
(Webadict also scumreads Knightwing, which I weigh oppositely.)
In conclusion it's a very strong townread.
NQT, I believe today may have revealed the Onyx team is Jack/Roden and either Egan or Max. Most likely Egan.What??
Post by: Roden on May 18, 2022, 11:36:59 pm
Toony why did you wait until now to scum read me? Your reads in general seemed to line up with what other people were thinking, but now have taken a sharp turn with little explanation for it.
I'm wondering at this point if you want Knightwing nominated just because you know he's unlikely to amass votes in the election. If a Cabal member gets nominated, that's one less person to have to compete with for votes on Day 4.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 18, 2022, 11:52:02 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 12:33:09 am
would gladly take your bet to just Emperor NQT right on the spot now.I wouldn't call it a bet, but, all right, anyone else willing to go for it?
I want to give FallacyofUrist's setup an honest shot but if we do get to Day 4 I doubt I vote anybody else besides notquitethere.
We could always just nominate me and declare me emperor as the compromise candidate.
I don't think this would lose the game for town.
If you want to know, that's precisely why I lied about being in a Sect. I understand that my being nominated turns the election into a two-person race, and not in a good way, so I have to rely on other people being able to be read better than me. Also, I'm trying to be a bit more malleable in my reading process, so it's a good challenge. If anyone thinks that's scummy, eh, whatever, don't vote for me then. But, if you think I am Town, ALSO don't vote for me. I am not going to be selected, and I will dilute the pool, and the chance of NQT and the other person being Onyx is nonzero (though, admittedly, pretty low), which basically fucks Town.
Couldn't you just say that instead of playing stupid mind games?
'NOOOOOO you don't understand I HAVE to DECEIVE in situations where being straightforward would work JUST as WELL'
I did actually believe his claim because I'm dumb. At the time it made sense to me that he was likely with Roden.2. They voted for Web end of D1:What's wrong with voting for Web? I mean, I wouldn't, but come on, you didn't believe his weird sects thing, right?
I believed it as well because I didn't have a reason to suspect that he was being deceptive.
'HAHA I said something perfectly reasonable that was ACTUALLY A LIE and EVERYONE believed it HAHA what a bunch of fucking morons'
EuchreJack's position on Toony doesn't seem to be well reasoned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was me who initiated voting for him today! How is that him jockeying?
Either this is a mistaken line of enquiry, or Jack is actually just scum.
NQT, I believe today may have revealed the Onyx team is Jack/Roden and either Egan or Max. Most likely Egan.
As aggravating as EuchreJack's reasoning (always) is giving absolutely abhorrent reads that aren't consistent with reads he may have made not even half an hour earlier is Signature Flavor town EuchreJack.
Speaking of work, I'm kind of swamped with a project this week so I'm not confident I can give a detailed explanation tonight of why I believe Jack and Roden are scum. I will try to at least have something tomorrow when I'm on a computer that doesn't block bay12forums...
I'm looking forward to this even though I don't agree with your read.
Toony's doing that scum thing again where he scrambles to change the status quo near the end of the day phase so that people panic and change up their vote without thinking it through.
Toony why did you wait until now to scum read me? Your reads in general seemed to line up with what other people were thinking, but now have taken a sharp turn with little explanation for it.
I'm wondering at this point if you want Knightwing nominated just because you know he's unlikely to amass votes in the election. If a Cabal member gets nominated, that's one less person to have to compete with for votes on Day 4.
Is there some recent example you're thinking of where he did this?
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 01:54:44 am
Oh, and the lying thing is because... I don't have a good reason. It's just easier to defend if no one thinks about why too hard. Being roundabout is how I rationalize decisions without having to distract from more important matters, probably.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 19, 2022, 02:02:15 am
@Fallacy: Can we get a poke on reina and Egan_BW? Having missing players only hurts us.Sure thing. Sending pokes now.
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 19, 2022, 05:28:54 am
Knightwing64
Last game I was in with Roden they acted different when they were town, and the way Web has been driving this whole game puts a bad taste in the my mouth. Not only that, Web is normally less serious as town.
Like, when he’s town you seriously suspect that he’s scum just because of how he acts. He hasn’t been doing that this game which is weird.
Just my two cents.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 07:16:10 am
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 07:31:31 am
Last game I was in with Roden they acted different when they were town, and the way Web has been driving this whole game puts a bad taste in the my mouth. Not only that, Web is normally less serious as town.Ah yes, the scumteam is simultaneously me, Roden, and I assume implicitly Jack and whatever else you want it to be.
Like, when he’s town you seriously suspect that he’s scum just because of how he acts. He hasn’t been doing that this game which is weird.
Just my two cents.
Roden acted differently as Town? Differently how? How has your opinion of me changed through the game, since at one point you voted for me? Why not explain instead of vague illusions at the end of the Day to justify a self-vote in an attempt to get yourself nominated. I am ready for your answers to these and my previous question, but I am unlikely to get any because of school.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 07:38:44 am
This is the most blatant example. I could find a few more, if you like. How about the last King game where he shifted to me in the last day?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 07:59:37 am
Toony's doing that scum thing again where he scrambles to change the status quo near the end of the day phase so that people panic and change up their vote without thinking it through.I disagree with your nomination. Flabbergasted "WTFs" and "huhs??" don't count as a defense.
Toony why did you wait until now to scum read me? Your reads in general seemed to line up with what other people were thinking, but now have taken a sharp turn with little explanation for it.
I'm wondering at this point if you want Knightwing nominated just because you know he's unlikely to amass votes in the election. If a Cabal member gets nominated, that's one less person to have to compete with for votes on Day 4.
Explain to me how my reads have taken a sharp turn.
@Jim: It's actually harder to name a recent game where Toony doesn't do this as scum. Temple Mafia is the most obvious example, but it is a common tactic he employs. I can link when I'm not pfp half asleep.How is this the same?
Oh, and the lying thing is because... I don't have a good reason. It's just easier to defend if no one thinks about why too hard. Being roundabout is how I rationalize decisions without having to distract from more important matters, probably.
Why do you trust Roden?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 08:28:42 am
1. Roden admitted to lurking on purpose and nobody called him scum for it (except Knightwing, which everyone ignored).
2. Jack wants Roden and Max elected, but doesn't want Max to be Emperor should a D4 pass, which is a strange strategy.
3. Jack claims they voted me on D2 to find my true nature, but they were harping how I was desperate for candidacy before D2 even started. And like NQT points out their accusations of me are erroneous if you actually read D2, I didn't push for my candidacy. I've shot down Jack's slander constantly this game.
4. Jack convinced Jim to vote himself on D1, which then Egan joined as well. NQT points out right after how suspicious this looks and it ruins Jim's candidacy chances. I think this was intentional. Egan hasn't been involved on D2, but Jack pulled a similar stunt on me D2. I think it's actually quite a smart strategy.
I feel that Reina's lack of presence on D2 has significantly hurt us. Also NQT as well, so I'm hopeful they can shed a light today.
I will try to be present in this thread as much as possible, at least on a phone anyway. I don't want there to be any misunderstandings.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 08:35:36 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 08:39:40 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 08:43:34 am
...about Toonyman being scum. :PA convincing argument.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 08:47:44 am
I disagree with your nomination. Flabbergasted "WTFs" and "huhs??" don't count as a defense.Hey, hope you don't mind me stepping in for Roden here, since I'm not in the mood for this. Why haven't you pushed forward cases on why reina or Knightwing are Town? You seemingly skipped over reina, even though they were absent. Knightwing has been here and you've been pushing that case, but you haven't really defended that choice. I've pointed out that Knightwing hasn't been the same type of poster as he usually is as Town. I usually expect posts like this:
Explain to me how my reads have taken a sharp turn.
Dunno, this just felt kinda scum to me, and I went off of just gut instinct. I’m not exactly Sherlock Holmes :-[Knightwing has a certain style for when he's Town, and this doesn't feel like that style:
Knightwing64 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374463#msg8374463) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374467#msg8374467) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374614#msg8374614) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374741#msg8374741) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374753#msg8374753) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374771#msg8374771) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374904#msg8374904) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8375051#msg8375051) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8375191#msg8375191) Last post was 3 hours ago.
Honestly, pick a post. #2 is the one that really felt the most off to me, as I replied to it shortly afterward, but it ALSO implies that Knightwing sorta believes everything ToonyMan says without having checked it out thoroughly.
How is this the same?Because Roden feels very similar to Totem Mafia 3. EuchreJack feels Town, and you're not asking why that is, but whatever. So, is the scumteam the three of us now? Even though I espoused support for Max? Heck... I'd even be willing to vote up Jim Groovester of all people, because he feels pretty genuine about his claims, even if I think he's scummy scum scum, sometimes.
Why do you trust Roden?
You seem to have a very narrow scope for Town. It appears to be you or Knightwing. reina doesn't really factor in because no one would be willing to vote them in, but you also haven't really given good reasons for reina anyway. You seem to only give good reasons for why someone SHOULDN'T be picked. And the fact that you're pushing for yourself at all is concerning, because you're a much better Town supporter.
As a fun exercise, notice that I've been setting this up since the beginning of the game. The goal was ALWAYS to leave Day 3 to be fought over. This will force you to push me into the scumteam, and if that's the conclusion, Toony, then I will absolutely gladly switch my vote to Maximum Spin. Then, we will vote for Jim on Day 3. I will get Roden and Jack to do it, which appears like that'd be an instant loss for us as scum, no?
So, I'm gonna propose a trade with Maximum Spin. Max, I will be willing to nominate you Today or Tomorrow (preferably Tomorrow, because then the council is set for me and I won't have to redo this argument where ToonyMan pushes for Knightwing or himself.) The catch is that you vote anyone except ToonyMan, Knightwing, reina (even though reina is probably Town, they're a bit of a liability), or Egan_BW Today and Tomorrow. Pick Jim. Pick Roden. Pick EuchreJack. Pick me. Pick yourself. I will follow that vote. I am sure that Roden and Jack will follow that vote, too. I'm doing my dumb dump truck of trust, but there's a lot of evidence showing that ToonyMan is probably scum, which leaves you as very likely Town, so... I'm gonna make a bit of the same mistake, but hopefully a bit better thought out this time. If I'm not thinking correctly, would someone mind short posting me out of it?
That's five people, Toony. They can't all be scum, and leaving it in the hands of a person you explicitly stated as being fine should be fine, no?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 08:57:39 am
I will vote anyone who isn't Roden, Jack, or Egan. Max is likely fine.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 08:59:42 am
I'm multitasking on a phone so I can't be as elaborate as I want, but I want to say something at least. Some of these are repeats because I wish to say them again.Uh, no.
1. Roden admitted to lurking on purpose and nobody called him scum for it (except Knightwing, which everyone ignored).
Jim commented on it fairly quickly afterwards at least once (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374218#msg8374218), and Web acknowledged that comment in his webby way (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374225#msg8374225).
So Toony is outright lying to you there.
2. Jack wants Roden and Max elected, but doesn't want Max to be Emperor should a D4 pass, which is a strange strategy.I can explain this. Both Max and I have opposing powers. Max has a double vote, whereas I can give one vote. By putting Max on the nominating block, but not electing Max Emperor, it removes Max's double vote.
But why am I explaining this to you? Toonyman both understands the opposing roles (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374735#msg8374735) and has at least once indicated we could be on opposing teams. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374746#msg8374746)
3. Jack claims they voted me on D2 to find my true nature, but they were harping how I was desperate for candidacy before D2 even started. And like NQT points out their accusations of me are erroneous if you actually read D2, I didn't push for my candidacy. I've shot down Jack's slander constantly this game.So here, I would just like to point out how ToonyMan is trying to invoke NQT. AND that NQT supports ToonyMan, despite sometimes waffling on that. But apparently NQT isn't feeling so well. I certainly know what that is like, so NQT gets a pass for today.
4. Jack convinced Jim to vote himself on D1, which then Egan joined as well. NQT points out right after how suspicious this looks and it ruins Jim's candidacy chances. I think this was intentional. Egan hasn't been involved on D2, but Jack pulled a similar stunt on me D2. I think it's actually quite a smart strategy.but ToonyMan, I thought you didn't care about being elected? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374737#msg8374737)
Not much I can say on this point. I supported Jim FIRST. I can't control when others post, or what they post.
I feel that Reina's lack of presence on D2 has significantly hurt us. Also NQT as well, so I'm hopeful they can shed a light today.NQT has explained his absence. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8375056#msg8375056)
I will try to be present in this thread as much as possible, at least on a phone anyway. I don't want there to be any misunderstandings.
Reina has not, but we still have time.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 19, 2022, 11:35:49 am
So, I'm gonna propose a trade with Maximum Spin. Max, I will be willing to nominate you Today or Tomorrow (preferably Tomorrow, because then the council is set for me and I won't have to redo this argument where ToonyMan pushes for Knightwing or himself.) The catch is that you vote anyone except ToonyMan, Knightwing, reina (even though reina is probably Town, they're a bit of a liability), or Egan_BW Today and Tomorrow. Pick Jim. Pick Roden. Pick EuchreJack. Pick me. Pick yourself. I will follow that vote. I am sure that Roden and Jack will follow that vote, too. I'm doing my dumb dump truck of trust, but there's a lot of evidence showing that ToonyMan is probably scum, which leaves you as very likely Town, so... I'm gonna make a bit of the same mistake, but hopefully a bit better thought out this time. If I'm not thinking correctly, would someone mind short posting me out of it?I'm comfortable being nominated tomorrow and nominating... of those, I feel like the safest option, the one who has never struck me as scum this game, is Jim today, sure. I don't have that kind of absolute confidence, so if Jim is Onyx playing real close to the vest I'll take the blame for it I guess, but, while I generally think Roden and Jack are town too, Jim is the one I would worry least about. I think. I'm a little preoccupied so I guess I might be making a huge obvious mistake instead. Only one way to find out.
That's five people, Toony. They can't all be scum, and leaving it in the hands of a person you explicitly stated as being fine should be fine, no?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 11:43:11 am
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 11:43:30 am
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 11:54:27 am
Edit: bearing in mind also I have a 6 week old child to look after.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 01:23:32 pm
JIM GROOVESTER
Okay, due to an actual emergency, I probably need to replace out. Sorry. I'm still town and therefore whoever replaces me is town.
Whatever it is I hope it ends up being fine.
actual reads
Eyyyy, nice.
@Jim: It's actually harder to name a recent game where Toony doesn't do this as scum. Temple Mafia is the most obvious example, but it is a common tactic he employs. I can link when I'm not pfp half asleep.
@Jim: Totem Mafia 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179207.msg8333948#msg8333948)
Is this the same flavor of meta read given that in that game ToonyMan pulled that stunt an hour and a half before day end compared to this game where he's doing this almost a full day before the deadline? Also, the stakes are different since the game doesn't immediately end as a result of today's nomination.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 01:28:57 pm
Is this the same flavor of meta read given that in that game ToonyMan pulled that stunt an hour and a half before day end compared to this game where he's doing this almost a full day before the deadline? Also, the stakes are different since the game doesn't immediately end as a result of today's nomination.You asked for a game where he tries to steer the vote near the end of the Day as scum and I gave you one. Would you like to move the goalposts further? Cool. Give me the end points so that we can work with that.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 01:50:03 pm
Is this the same flavor of meta read given that in that game ToonyMan pulled that stunt an hour and a half before day end compared to this game where he's doing this almost a full day before the deadline? Also, the stakes are different since the game doesn't immediately end as a result of today's nomination.You asked for a game where he tries to steer the vote near the end of the Day as scum and I gave you one. Would you like to move the goalposts further? Cool. Give me the end points so that we can work with that.
I was interested in your read and wanted to verify that it was accurate, asshole.
But I also originally directed this at Roden and want to hear from him about it as well.
Post by: Roden on May 19, 2022, 04:08:49 pm
Nothing has changed between when you wanted to nominate me earlier and now, so that's either a lie or you're claiming Cabal at this point. It's also a massively blatant misrep to say I'm just being "flabbergasted", I made several points earlier disputing why Reina and Knightwing aren't good choices that you chose to ignore several times. There's nothing to defend because you claimed me and Jack were somehow scum together and refused to elaborate on it.Toony's doing that scum thing again where he scrambles to change the status quo near the end of the day phase so that people panic and change up their vote without thinking it through.I disagree with your nomination. Flabbergasted "WTFs" and "huhs??" don't count as a defense.
Toony why did you wait until now to scum read me? Your reads in general seemed to line up with what other people were thinking, but now have taken a sharp turn with little explanation for it.
I'm wondering at this point if you want Knightwing nominated just because you know he's unlikely to amass votes in the election. If a Cabal member gets nominated, that's one less person to have to compete with for votes on Day 4.
Explain to me how my reads have taken a sharp turn.
Your reads have taken a sharp turn because you went from supporting townies who can actually get elected to supporting townies who can't and a null slot that isn't posting. There isn't a consistent thought through-line with your reads and choices. You only went against me when you saw I had momentum and might actually get nominated, which suggests that you didn't think I actually would at first and panicked when you saw that I was becoming an obvtown slot that was actually active and posting.
I'm multitasking on a phone so I can't be as elaborate as I want, but I want to say something at least. Some of these are repeats because I wish to say them again.1. Another blatant lie which I can see Jack proved in his own response to this post. I'll add that this is proven to not be a real concern because you didn't care when it happened and you instead showed support for me. Do you want to explain how this makes me a Cabal member?
1. Roden admitted to lurking on purpose and nobody called him scum for it (except Knightwing, which everyone ignored).
2. Jack wants Roden and Max elected, but doesn't want Max to be Emperor should a D4 pass, which is a strange strategy.
3. Jack claims they voted me on D2 to find my true nature, but they were harping how I was desperate for candidacy before D2 even started. And like NQT points out their accusations of me are erroneous if you actually read D2, I didn't push for my candidacy. I've shot down Jack's slander constantly this game.
4. Jack convinced Jim to vote himself on D1, which then Egan joined as well. NQT points out right after how suspicious this looks and it ruins Jim's candidacy chances. I think this was intentional. Egan hasn't been involved on D2, but Jack pulled a similar stunt on me D2. I think it's actually quite a smart strategy.
I feel that Reina's lack of presence on D2 has significantly hurt us. Also NQT as well, so I'm hopeful they can shed a light today.
I will try to be present in this thread as much as possible, at least on a phone anyway. I don't want there to be any misunderstandings.
2. What's strange about nominating your town reads and then choosing to elect the player you town read the most?
3. How is this a scum tell instead of a town tell? With the amount of times you manipulated Jack in past games, are you now implying that you don't understand how his mind and thought processes work?
4. It ruined Jim's chances so much that he became the leading nomination choice without a single bit of campaigning?
If you only scum read me for one thing that didn't concern you earlier in the game, then I think it's pretty clear that your read on me isn't real. You suddenly being unable to read Jack when that hasn't been an issue for you in a long time also isn't convincing.
Post by: Roden on May 19, 2022, 04:21:41 pm
Web pretty much said it.Totem Mafia and Traitors in the Fortress are the most recent examplesIs this the same flavor of meta read given that in that game ToonyMan pulled that stunt an hour and a half before day end compared to this game where he's doing this almost a full day before the deadline? Also, the stakes are different since the game doesn't immediately end as a result of today's nomination.You asked for a game where he tries to steer the vote near the end of the Day as scum and I gave you one. Would you like to move the goalposts further? Cool. Give me the end points so that we can work with that.
I was interested in your read and wanted to verify that it was accurate, asshole.
But I also originally directed this at Roden and want to hear from him about it as well.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 19, 2022, 04:39:14 pm
hector13 has replaced for Maximum Spin.
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 05:25:04 pm
It was at that time that the chief of scribes burst into the nomination room, breathing heavily. As it turned out, due to a filing error, hector13 had been represented under an incorrect name. The mistake was quickly rectified.
hector13 has replaced for Maximum Spin.
steps forward and brushes off his cloak, eyeing the scribe in disdain
Fackin’ right you are mate. Took your time, I’ve been waiting a bleedin’ age here.
PFP, incessantly, which makes mafia extra fun.
Eh. I guess I’m alright with Jim for today. There are worse people to support.
I’m going to finish reading through the thread to solidify reads. Might not get much done before the deadline, but yeah it doesn’t help that half the town have disappeared.
So, not sure if this a sensible question as it’s been a while since I played and this format is a little bananas, and we don’t know what powers the scum team have but:
Jack claimed to be able to give a vote to someone else. Who are you considering giving it to, and why?
As mentioned previously, I have a baby to look after, depending what happens between now and deadline I may not finish my read through, but the weekend is coming up so that helps give me some extra time for D3.
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 05:40:00 pm
Unfortunately from my not-really-paying-attention following when I wasn’t actually playing, I couldn’t determine what team either was on.
Scumread webadict for his 4/10 fakeclaim, but he ‘fessed up on it with more or less reasonable justification. Whether or not that justification is because he has a power for emperor votes is not going to be determined.
That’s about as far as that went.
Currently on page 8, default ppp.
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 05:56:10 pm
Scum team is Roden, Jack, webadict? Possibly not making sense with webadict’s trade with Max for votes… but webadict has been pushing Roden since early D1… would he bookend the scum team like that, and all but out them in the next sentence? Ballsy, so probably.
Who is Toony in a team with? reina and a +1? Probably knightwing.
Jack has been pushing all my “this person is not town” buttons all game. Very focused on Toony as scum despite the object of the game to find and vote town. Does it make sense that he’s on a scum team with webadict though? Has made many comments regarding the scum team being abandoned by the inactive players, venting in the thread? Would be teamed with egan in this case, but who else?
/absent-minded idea exploration
Should probably read the thread instead of this. Ah well, food for thought.
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 06:13:14 pm
Jack was very eager out the gate to poo-poo NQT in favour of Jim, despite arguing (correctly) the only people to be sure of in the early game is yourself.
I haven’t played with Jack before though, and I am of the opinion quick opinion forming is not necessarily something we do round here (I love it though.) so can someone who has played with him before fill me in a bit on his early game meta?
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 06:21:09 pm
I’ll just read the thread then draw conclusions.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 06:49:07 pm
That last one is nonsense.Jack is like TricMagic, except a lot giddier. Does that help?
I’ll just read the thread then draw conclusions.
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 06:51:00 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 07:00:44 pm
I return home. Time to get to work.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 07:24:50 pm
Frankly, I don't see much point in posting further. Everyone has formed their opinions about me. You either figure I'm definitely town or definitely scum.
At least you can debate among yourselves why I'm voting hector13. You all need to talk more anyways.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 07:25:50 pm
Jack claimed to be able to give a vote to someone else. Who are you considering giving it to, and why?
None of your damn business, at this point.
I already miss Max. :'(
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 07:31:42 pm
*cracks knuckles*
I return home. Time to get to work.
I'm curious what would prompt this determined seeming post given that the player you are voting for is in the lead for nomination with not much time left in the day.
hector13
Frankly, I don't see much point in posting further. Everyone has formed their opinions about me. You either figure I'm definitely town or definitely scum.
At least you can debate among yourselves why I'm voting hector13. You all need to talk more anyways.
*sigh*
Noooooooo, EuchreJack, pleeeeeeease don't keep your thoughts from us.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 07:36:31 pm
...I'm having trouble reading this as anything but sarcasm. I doubt my "thoughts" matter.hector13
Frankly, I don't see much point in posting further. Everyone has formed their opinions about me. You either figure I'm definitely town or definitely scum.
At least you can debate among yourselves why I'm voting hector13. You all need to talk more anyways.
*sigh*
Noooooooo, EuchreJack, pleeeeeeease don't keep your thoughts from us.
Also, my instinct is to give the extra vote to Web, but I should probably make sure Web is town before doing that.
Maybe I'll just go random and unexpected. Maybe even give it to the person I trust LEAST, just to get everyone to hate them.
Since apparently, whenever I back anyone, they're IMMEDIATELY SCUM, because Jack is apparently some evil genius.
*Stops to twirl his mustache*
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 07:53:16 pm
Why change your vote at the end of the day? What do you hope to gain from the potential panic?
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 07:54:45 pm
Is this accurate?
What does the bribe do?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 07:55:06 pm
...I'm having trouble reading this as anything but sarcasm. I doubt my "thoughts" matter.
Also, my instinct is to give the extra vote to Web, but I should probably make sure Web is town before doing that.
Maybe I'll just go random and unexpected. Maybe even give it to the person I trust LEAST, just to get everyone to hate them.
Since apparently, whenever I back anyone, they're IMMEDIATELY SCUM, because Jack is apparently some evil genius.
*Stops to twirl his mustache*
You shouldn't let people scum reading you get under your skin like this.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 07:56:57 pm
Okay, better. That means Jack will always trigger my scumdar.It won't mean much coming from me, but Jack and Roden aren't scum here. They tend to be scumread a lot by Jim, but Jim has to calibrate his scumdar big time. Jim is probably Town, though, and if he isn't it's not a big deal because he probably won't be voted if it comes to that. Additionally, you are likely Town. I would prefer that Jack and Roden be voted up, but I'm unlikely to get that, and even if I somehow did, it'd be unlikely that they'd be voted by Jim, so I'm actually doing Town a favor by getting Jim away from the voting bloc.
What it comes down to is that you'll be voted in Tomorrow, and if there's a need for a vote, I'm going to push for you (Jim can complain that we're voting NQT, but I'm not doing it, and he'll have no vote, so...) I'm locked in to that game plan, but the chances that a vote is needed is... extremely low.
Also, Euchre, I'd rather hector13 stay un-nominated until Day 3 because he's a better choice there, since his double vote stays while note nominated. ... Also, not sure if you understand, but... I think hector's got only a double vote during nomination?
Isn't it fun when we all work together?
I'm quite Jade this game, but you're going to doubt me in spite of, you know, me doing everything in my power to keep Jim from fighting you on your own, and in spite of me fighting for Roden. But, you're going to change your mind at the last second, aren't you? If you do, please, please, please, FUCKING PLEASE, don't give your extra vote to ToonyMan, or I will be very disappointed in you. He's literally calling you and Roden part of the scumteam. Like... I just don't even....I'm having trouble reading this as anything but sarcasm. I doubt my "thoughts" matter.hector13
Frankly, I don't see much point in posting further. Everyone has formed their opinions about me. You either figure I'm definitely town or definitely scum.
At least you can debate among yourselves why I'm voting hector13. You all need to talk more anyways.
*sigh*
Noooooooo, EuchreJack, pleeeeeeease don't keep your thoughts from us.
Also, my instinct is to give the extra vote to Web, but I should probably make sure Web is town before doing that.
Maybe I'll just go random and unexpected. Maybe even give it to the person I trust LEAST, just to get everyone to hate them.
Since apparently, whenever I back anyone, they're IMMEDIATELY SCUM, because Jack is apparently some evil genius.
*Stops to twirl his mustache*
It should be obvious that you're Town, and the fact that you're still going to question my alignment will always baffle me because I'm making sure that we're getting only Town players on the nomination board, and if I'm NOT, then WHO WOULD BE MY PARTNER IN THAT CASE? Is it Jim? Is it Max? Is it Roden? Is it NQT? Is it, for some fucking reason, TOONYMAN, WHO I'VE GONE OUT OF MY WAY TO TANK HIS NOMINATION POTENTIAL WHILE ALSO MAKING SURE I DON'T GET NOMINATED?!? Like... It won't matter what I do to push forward a Town agenda, but I want you to restart your brain, look at everything I do and that I've done, and think if that makes sense to do for the Town. And if it DOESN'T, then I can't help you see the truth.
TL;DR: I'm Town. You're Town. Roden's Town. hector13's Town. That's enough for me to call the game over. We nominate Town players, and if we screw up, then we vote for Town players. I might be playing 5D stratego over here, but just... fucking... go with your heart or your brain or whatever the fuck.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 08:01:10 pm
Also, Jack you seem to imply you have two abilities, you can give a vote to someone and you can bribe someone.The bribe is the extra vote.
Is this accurate?
What does the bribe do?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 08:06:11 pm
But I appreciate the talk Web. Frankly, Toonyman has made sure that anyone I support looks scummy, so I'm not sure it's wise to publicly support anyone.
But yeah, you've been nice to me, so I can give you my extra vote.
Also, I won't be voting for NQT. The Toonyman connection is too obvious in my mind. If we are forced into an election, it's because NQT is Onyx.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 08:10:40 pm
...I'm having trouble reading this as anything but sarcasm. I doubt my "thoughts" matter.
Also, my instinct is to give the extra vote to Web, but I should probably make sure Web is town before doing that.
Maybe I'll just go random and unexpected. Maybe even give it to the person I trust LEAST, just to get everyone to hate them.
Since apparently, whenever I back anyone, they're IMMEDIATELY SCUM, because Jack is apparently some evil genius.
*Stops to twirl his mustache*
You shouldn't let people scum reading you get under your skin like this.
Sure I should.
With Max, I understood where I stood. We would likely figure each other out in the end if we were town.
Now hector13 subs in for Max and takes an immediate and irrevocable dislike in me.
So yeah, I'm super pissed, and I have an absolute right to be pissed.
Fine, if my vote is so toxic UNVOTE
I'll only vote to keep Toonyman off the docket. And probably Knightwing, since Toonyman was so insistent on him. Although I think Knightwing is just an innocent patsy of Toonyman.
I mean, if you look at Toonyman for the ENTIRE game, you see he's been scum shading me.
I've held back only because attacking someone for scumshading you generally just makes you look worse.
But FUCK IT. I've lost THAT battle, clearly and solely because of this substitution.
So everyone might as well know this is something to look at, if my alignment is at doubt in any way by anyone left.
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 08:12:09 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 08:27:09 pm
Spoiler: Day 2 Analysis (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 08:34:36 pm
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 08:36:15 pm
lmao
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 08:53:37 pm
lmao
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 08:57:26 pm
lmao
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 19, 2022, 09:04:57 pm
Now Jim Groovester stepped up to claim the second nomination.
Quote from: The Nominated
- notquitethere
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
hector13 - 0
Roden - 1: Roden
Jim Groovester - 5: hector13, ToonyMan, webadict, Jim Groovester
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 2: notquitethere, Knightwing64
webadict - 0
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (3): Egan_BW, reina, EuchreJack
Jim Groovester has been Nominated.
And as the Palace bells tolled, the day of reckoning, the day of Election drew near...
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 19, 2022, 09:13:33 pm
Day 3 - Let Stir the Sleepers
It was a beautiful morning, and a night of rest had done nothing for the conditions of reina and Egan_BW. As the two nominated court members, notquitethere and Jim Groovester, stared out from their safeguarded booths, the permitted, trusted physicians proclaimed that either the sleepers would awake soon, or not at all.
As prods have already been sent out and Egan_BW and reina have not meaningfully interacted during Day 2, if Egan_BW or reina have not posted by the end of the first 24 hours of Day 3, their slots will be put up for replacement.
Quote from: The Nominated
- notquitethere
- Jim Groovester
Quote from: Votecount
EuchreJack - 0
hector13 - 0
Roden - 0
Egan_BW - 0
Knightwing64 - 0
webadict - 0
reina - 0
ToonyMan - 0
Votes Unused (10): EuchreJack, hector13, Roden, Jim Groovester, Egan_BW, Knightwing64, notquitethere, webadict, reina, ToonyMan
Welcome to Day 3. This Nomination is the last one - use it well.
Day 3 has begun, and will end 8 PM Central time, Tuesday the 24th (since weekends do not count), unless the Day is Shortened.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 09:14:05 pm
Now I can stop giving a fuck.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 09:17:46 pm
hector13
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 09:20:52 pm
I’ve never played a game with you before, and the reasons you were using to justify nominating people were a little bit bananas (because they can’t be trusted to elect the right player, their role powers are strong) and you’ve had a hateboner for Toony for most of D2, despite the fact we’re not looking for scum to lynch, we’re looking for town to elect, and nobody is challenging you over these things, which was annoying when I wasn’t playing.
Now that I am playing and actually reading the thread, I got to this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374774#msg8374774) after the day ended so couldn’t post about it ‘til after (‘cause rules are made to be followed, wtf are we barbarians) which at least convinced me you probably weren’t scum. Plus webadict’s assertion you play like TricMagic, who will eternally be a scumread to me, and I could at least look past some of the weird shit you’re doing.
So yeah. Cool your jets :p I won’t vote for Toony or Knightwing, and Egan is more likely than not the third scum.
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 09:23:29 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 09:25:51 pm
Well, I still don't see anything else to do at this point.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 09:26:52 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 09:29:02 pm
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 09:29:26 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 09:30:23 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 09:31:27 pm
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 09:32:49 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 19, 2022, 09:33:19 pm
Shorten
Shorten as well, with the assumption that hector13 may wish to ask questions, and if that happens, just switch your vote that stops everything, lmao.
I think Hector at least has to vote for themselves first, but at least we're on the same page for once.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2022, 09:34:25 pm
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 09:49:23 pm
I'm going to bed. If you guys do last minute shenanigans, I'm gonna barf all over the thread.
Better call your dry cleaner!
I jest.
I could read the rest of the thread but I don’t think it’ll change anything, and quite frankly I’m not going to say no to nominating the one player I know is 100% for my wincon.
hector13
Shorten
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 11:08:03 pm
I'm conceding. There's not much I can do when I'm by myself and most of my supporters suddenly vanish D2 and stop posting. Call it bad luck, or karma, or 4mask's curse. The two biggest town threats were Web and Jack since Web kept me completely caged the whole game (which is really bad in this scenario) while Jack just followed Web. I don't have the resources to exchange pieces here.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 11:13:33 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2022, 11:18:44 pm
Post by: hector13 on May 19, 2022, 11:22:36 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2022, 11:40:57 pm
Was it really reina and Egan_BW?Knightwing and Egan. I appreciate Knightwing for trying to help. Sorry we couldn't do it.
I was banking on NQT and Reina to support me D2 and D3, but their absence moved the ballet to Roden. I wanted either Reina, me, or Knightwing to win the D2 nomination as this made it likely that one Onyx gets in by D3. I couldn't see a way we could win if Roden won the nomination on D2, so yes I "broke the status quo" which didn't work out here.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 12:00:13 am
I'm not sure how you'd get elected under that scenario, but it certainly seemed possible.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 12:00:51 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2022, 12:05:34 am
Was it really reina and Egan_BW?Knightwing and Egan. I appreciate Knightwing for trying to help. Sorry we couldn't do it.
Knightwing64, really? No kidding.
I think even if Onyx Cabal makes it to Day 4 you have a hard time beating out notquitethere but I doubt it's impossible.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 12:07:02 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2022, 12:16:17 am
Maybe I didn't understand the Grand Game very well, but I figured if you (Toonyman) had just waited your turn on Day 3, you would have been a shoe-in.Webadict was forcing me as a D3 candidate because it would tell him if I was Onyx or not. I'm going to assume because he called me a "strong player". I literally have no way to resist without breaking trust with him, but I have to because I can't win otherwise. Knightwing was my other valid candidate, but Web scumread KW (one of the few that did), so I couldn't use KW as a candidate either without breaking trust with Web.
I'm not sure how you'd get elected under that scenario, but it certainly seemed possible.
I'm fine with breaking trust because I have to to win, but then he has Jack who can make Web a double voter and Max who is a double voter. Onyx don't have much to compete with that.
If I sat quiet and did get a D3 nomination I was almost certainly not being elected.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 12:27:45 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 12:32:22 am
While normally I groan over the overabundance of power roles, in this setup we needed more.
Without the thrill and excitement of the Lynch & Night Kill, the players needed something else to talk about (regardless of alignment).
Personally, I think both Jade & Onyx needed someone with a 1-shot kill ability, that could especially be used to eliminate a nominee.
Yes, this means extra days. But I think it would be worth it.
The kill could also be used on someone who hadn't been nominated, but I wanted to emphasize that I think it should also be allowed against nominees.
It should also be a kill where the side who conducted it is hidden.
Post by: Roden on May 20, 2022, 01:39:39 am
Hector
Shorten
It's unfortunate that the Cabal got screwed over by inactivity, and that Egan got locked down so quickly. The set up itself was fun though.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 20, 2022, 01:48:48 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 02:05:13 am
I'm blocking this subforum from my memory.
Fair enough.
But I think the scum team got shafted in this particular game, so you did well with what you were given.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 20, 2022, 02:45:13 am
And man, sorry to Egan for having that Bluarian luck, heh.
One last comment: I never had a double-vote for the election, just nominations. That was EuchreJack's misguess. Glad he did, though.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 20, 2022, 02:47:40 am
Coulda done something with D2, at least sow doubt with the fact that I was being mafiaread and could still vote. But I wasn't in the right emotional state to play just then. Good old play by post roleplay games at least don't go anywhere if I freak out for three days, you know.I'm blocking this subforum from my memory.
Fair enough.
But I think the scum team got shafted in this particular game, so you did well with what you were given.
Post by: hector13 on May 20, 2022, 02:59:51 am
Haha, wow. At least I read ToonyMan right, the only read I was confident on at all by the time I left. I was being serious when I thought it was web and Toony, though, right up until web made that deal with me (and then I had no idea what to think). Glad it ended up working out. Sorry your replace-in ended up being totally superfluous, Hector!
And man, sorry to Egan for having that Bluarian luck, heh.
One last comment: I never had a double-vote for the election, just nominations. That was EuchreJack's misguess. Glad he did, though.
Eh, as I mentioned in my first post I was still chewing over webadict’s fakeclaim and subsequent confession, but that was as a disinterested observer.
Ah well, all’s well that ends well. Probably a good thing I didn’t have to pay too much attention given my responsibilities, and I didn’t have to do much other than bother Jack ;D you played well enough that I didn’t have to, can’t complain about that.
Coulda done something with D2, at least sow doubt with the fact that I was being mafiaread and could still vote. But I wasn't in the right emotional state to play just then. Good old play by post roleplay games at least don't go anywhere if I freak out for three days, you know.I'm blocking this subforum from my memory.
Fair enough.
But I think the scum team got shafted in this particular game, so you did well with what you were given.
Mafia is very easy to take too seriously, particularly with some of the vitriol we condone on the board. It’s not for everyone, and even if you’re used to it, it can get to you. Don’t worry about it.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 20, 2022, 03:06:59 am
The Onyx Cabal (ToonyMan, Knightwing64, Egan_BW) have forfeited.
The Jade Court (everyone else) win!
There were no Sects.
Feels like this game crashed to a halt earlier than it should have.
While normally I groan over the overabundance of power roles, in this setup we needed more.Funnily enough, half the players had power roles. The scum never used their two powers and the town weak-cop never claimed his results. I think the setup was more balanced than it looked, it's just that I assumed the scumteam would be more proactive. That didn't seem to happen.
Props to Toony for amazing Day 1 and Day 2 play though. The one thing he missed is the potential strategy of using his ability proactively and aggressively - it could be used any number of times, since it was just a passively available toggle that affected his vote's effect. The ability to vote against someone was more useful in its social effect than its practical effect, I think.
Spoiler: Setup (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2022, 05:05:30 am
Spoiler: Long-ass post (click to show/hide)
Honestly, I think you guys put too much stock in the act of lying, when sometimes the purpose of the lie is what really matters. And, even if I lie there, the worst case scenario should be: Don't vote for me. I lied because it would allow me to make a decision without having to justify it then. No one can argue against "I have to do this action or I lose." It saves debate time.Overall, Toony played well, Max played well, Euchre started fights with Townies and doubted his read of me but in the end made the right choice, Jim still scum read Townies but we managed to come to a satisfying answer as a team, Knightwing learned a bit more and didn't do bad as he managed to convince a couple Townies he was Town, NQT made a good opening move that allowed us to centralize around a Townie early and actually gave us a few good reads from it, Roden played well (even if the lurk thing waaaaas a bit silly, but can I really judge?), and reina actually played well but I am sad because they appear to have disappeared. Egan, you get a special section because you probably got some nerves from playing as scum, but know that you didn't do poorly because you convinced Max you weren't scum, which isn't an easy feat. I think you should give yourself another shot because you're still learning to play. Losing kinda sucks, and being scum is hard, and losing at something hard feels bad. But, you didn't do as bad as you think. Give it another try some time, and if you really want to revel in a win, use your friendliness against people. Make alliances, and then, at the perfect moment, backstab them. I think that is a good style for you, since you would likely get Townies to join you. Sure, it's buddying, but... We sorta allow that here, and it's something we're bad at dealing with, so use it against us.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2022, 05:23:40 am
My two cents.
Post by: notquitethere on May 20, 2022, 05:25:31 am
He has no idea who the good or bad guys are so would not be best placed among the electorate
I got totally taken in by Toony. I voted Knightwing as a sort of test to see who else would jump on that wagon as I assumed Toony was town but wasn't sure about KW. The fact no one else did made it look better for Knightwing, though objectively I had no reason to think him town.
My main contribution was just being authentically town so that people would have confidence in me as a candidate.
Post by: notquitethere on May 20, 2022, 05:34:26 am
Spoiler: Analysis of analysis (click to show/hide)
Post by: Knightwing64 on May 20, 2022, 05:49:04 am
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2022, 06:37:05 am
Yeah, I feel like if Egan didn’t go MIA at the start we would have had a chance but overall good game, toony totally carried but I like to think that I was some helpToony pushing you on Day 2 forced my hand a little bit, which is why I had to reveal my fakeclaim, as that would have been revealed by just a little bit of sleuthing and destroyed my credibility harder than me self-revealing. I had to move from my main choice of reina/Roden to a bit of a trust hail mary with Max|hector/Jim. Toony worked with the pieces he had, and he was actually a lot closer to winning than it might have appeared.
Never take your own role in the team lightly, because the powerwolf does a lot of the heavy lifting, but the other wolves can pick off stragglers and break a Towncore. Look at how close NQT (and Jim?) was to being on your side. Max was townreading Egan. That could've fucked me if Egan was playing and Max decided on Egan in spite of me, which, you know, I could imagine Max doing! Euchre and Roden I could read, but... I need them to read me, too. I think you can use your own power against people by blindly following someone. If you had picked me to blindly follow, that could've meant Euchre and Roden might not trust me, and ruined my ability to do what I needed to do, since I would look scummier by association. That's probably how I would recommend you play, since you seem more happy-go-lucky, and could easily explain that as Town, too. You could've done that to Jim too and gotten two at once! (Basically, pick someone and pretend they are your powerwolf/ves in game. Even if you look scummy doing it, they will also look scummy.)
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2022, 07:28:51 am
@Egan:
I can feel pressured too, especially when people don't believe me. I think you voting Jim on D1 was super good, and you could have done the same thing to other townies on D2 to hurt their credibility. I know it's kind of a weird setup but it's a perfect testing ground as scum because town can't kill you.
@Jack:
I don't know how to link the scumchat.
https://discord.gg/eDYXycXcTK
This?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 08:01:24 am
Yay!
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 08:06:20 am
I think Knightwings's ability, being a private one, could have been used to scare the crap out of town.
Toony is probably correct in that his ability would have outed him, so it would probably have been best used as a "surprise".
Alternatively, he could have full-claimed day 1 and argued he was a Town power role.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2022, 08:13:57 am
Revealing my voting power role would have put me in the same group as Jack and Max. I felt that would ruin my nomination chances. Revealing a voting PR early worked so well for me last time I did it...which coincidentally you were a double voter I think and it just made me suspicious. That's why I decided to just be vanilla. Being vanilla gets you nominated. Having a voting power role does not.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 08:37:03 am
Hence, you should have declared Day 1. Use your Elite Attorney avatar to argue you were an advocate charged with finding the onyx. I think you could have sold it.
...also, I have now read your truthful assessment of my ISO. :'(
Eh, I'm sure the next one will be better!
(the first hundred always suck)
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2022, 08:55:28 am
I was being truthful about your ISO in thread. I was just being tactless in private.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2022, 09:02:24 am
Also, the vote color thing would be noticable because I use Mamobo to generate votes, and I manually set the color checking for that, so... Probably would've looked scummy. I think it should've been hidden like Max's was.
Post by: Maximum Spin on May 20, 2022, 11:35:13 am
because you convinced Max you weren't scum, which isn't an easy feat.
Max was townreading Egan. That could've fucked me if Egan was playing and Max decided on Egan in spite of me, which, you know, I could imagine Max doing!Well...
Uh, I've got to level with you, I was null on Egan, I just made that post to fish you and Toony. I didn't exactly scumread him, but nominating him definitely wasn't going to happen. I had even made the "Bluarian luck" joke in my head a couple hours before that post at a time when I did scumread him, and the only reason I stopped is because he didn't fit with you and Toony together. I'm not trying to say "ha ha I knew all along" because obviously it was not where I was looking when I should've been; it's more that, like I said when I voted for Jim, I was deeply conflicted about almost everyone and, for all intents and purposes, just made up almost all my reads this game. That's why they were so all over the place in some cases, like when I went back and forth on knightwing... other than a strong suspicion on ToonyMan that I am willing to take credit for, I had no firm idea what was going on. In the end, just like I implied, I picked Jim by counting off everyone I wasn't sure about, and he was the only one left.
So, I'm not convinced that I played that well this game, except in those last moments of deciding to focus on voting for town instead of worrying about finding scum, which I guess did turn out to be the right thing to do. I'll take the credit for that too, but you (webadict) probably did better overall, especially by taking the lesson about Knightwing to heart when I totally failed to. (There's a reason I was so noncommittal about reading him every time someone asked, and moved my opinion back and forth like that: it seemed like - I didn't not SEE it - he was behaving almost exactly like scum knightwing from last time, yet somehow I just couldn't convince myself about it intuitively. Since I had been going on so much about following my gut, then, I decided not to let my rational observation that he seemed basically the same take precedence, when it obviously should have. Maybe I used up all my knightwing-reading ability last time. Or webadict stole it. Or, more likely, during the period when I was really bored and didn't have my head in the game, I let myself choose some of my reads more based on contrarianism than real consideration, then didn't take the time to reconsider them. I'm sorry about that. My only defense is to say that at least I wasn't sure.)
I was hoping being partners with KW again would create a blindspot of the same scumteam. Gambler's Fallacy be damned.For me it did a little bit, not in that I thought you couldn't be in the same team again by chance, but because I figured you'd be angrier if you had to carry the whole team a second time in a row. :P Your apparent breeziness made me think you must have a strong partner, which led me to accusing webadict.
One more thing: I should have townread Roden more strongly, clearly. Roden is kind of an exception to what I said before in that I never actually thought he was scum at all, but for some reason I have a really hard time convincing myself that I'm reading him right. It's the same thing that ultimately tripped me up in the last Fallacy Clockwork Marathon Hell game. I remember saying exactly that to EuchreJack in the mason chat: that I townread Roden but I wasn't sure enough that I could read Roden at all to believe it. He's probably not as mystifying as I seem to think. I guess I'll have to wait for him to be mafia again to try to get a better heuristic.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 11:42:56 am
One more thing: I should have townread Roden more strongly, clearly. Roden is kind of an exception to what I said before in that I never actually thought he was scum at all, but for some reason I have a really hard time convincing myself that I'm reading him right. It's the same thing that ultimately tripped me up in the last Fallacy Clockwork Marathon Hell game. I remember saying exactly that to EuchreJack in the mason chat: that I townread Roden but I wasn't sure enough that I could read Roden at all to believe it. He's probably not as mystifying as I seem to think. I guess I'll have to wait for him to be mafia again to try to get a better heuristic.
Ah, but Roden clearly gets better every time he rolls Mafia, so your heuristics will always be off. :P
My townread of Roden came very early in the game when Roden was trying to mechanically solve the game. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373266#msg8373266) While mafia!Roden could certainly fake that, it occurred so early, so spontaneously, and so naturally that I figured it had to be town!Roden. And I built upon that as the game continued.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2022, 12:22:55 pm