Bay 12 Games Forum
Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: Maximum Spin on June 06, 2022, 11:11:22 pm
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I don't know why it's called that.
In this game, the mafia are a cult and town is also a cult. It is a game for the modern era, where everybody wins and nobody dies. Unless the third-party wins. Then you are all doomed.
There's no fixed upper limit to how many players I can put in this thing, although if it goes to ten I'll probably have to scramble to think of new power roles to keep it interesting.
To put it simply, this is a nightless setup where, during the day, everyone votes for a player to be converted to town, while, at the same time, cult members submit secret ballots for a player to be converted to cult. There is no confirmation of the previous alignment of the chosen player, and cult members don't know each other (all communication is through me). If the town "lynch" hits cult, then the cult are temporarily inconvenienced and the cult convert doesn't happen - but only the "lynched" player knows for sure whether that happened! (Since he's now town, he might be forthcoming about it, unless it's more valuable to keep it a secret...) Power roles might result in the announcement of extra information, but, depending on the player's motivations, it might not actually be true. Finally, there is a third party whose goal is to stop either side from winning. This individual cannot be converted to anything. One side or the other must win within a time limit proportional to the number of players, or everyone is doomed!
I have no idea if this will even work. Actually, I'm convinced it won't. But at least it will be something to do for a little while, right?
Commitments so far:
Jim Groovester
Knightwing
BluarianKnight
Roden
webadict
Lidku
NJW2000
ToonyMan
Egan_BW
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Sounds great, I'm in.
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In
0.0
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aw yeah Mr. Krabs,
IN.
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In
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So, do mafia actually want to stay hidden here? It seems as though they would want to out themselves so that the game can end as quickly as possible. Meanwhile 3P wants to jester in order to waste turns?
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I don't have time to to play, but here's some outside commentary...
So, do mafia actually want to stay hidden here? It seems as though they would want to out themselves so that the game can end as quickly as possible. Meanwhile 3P wants to jester in order to waste turns?
The "cult" and the "town" are really on the same side (assuming that the objective of both sides is to convert everyone else to their side) - I think the scum here is actually the 3P, who's trying to interfere with player coordination to run down the clock. 3P might claim to be cult in the hopes of being targeted by the town vote and wasting turns. I think the power roles may play a big deal here, because otherwise, I don't see how 3P would have a chance.
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In.
Seems unbalanced enough ;) :P
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Out, i cant play during holiday, but will play in august!
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Alright, I'll play now, as the Beginner game will be ending within 72 hours. Just needed some time between cult games.
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In.
I think I've now become addicted to Mafia games :o
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In, if it isn't too late.
Can I ask if the 3rd party have private communication or know one another's identities?
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In, if it isn't too late.
It's not. I'll leave the thread open for a little while longer to see if anyone else joins.
Can I ask if the 3rd party have private communication or know one another's identities?
With the current number of players there would only be one anyway. In theory, if I expected many more, I wasn't intending for there to be any private communication, but I suspect it would be better for them to know the identities.
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Okay, I'll join another stupid bullshit conversion game.
in
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upon reflection I've decided to in if only to see how my curse of being scum interacts with this setup.
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The year: 3600. The eldest gods of Earth have long since left for fresh passion projects, and the desperate last-ditch pay-to-win campaigns implemented by the new owners just aren't turning a profit anymore. The last maintainers have somberly decided to terminate the project. One last hope is offered: if a unanimous decision can be reached among eight chosen candidates, the maintainers have agreed to transfer ownership of Earth to the fans, who can continue to run community servers. The opportunity to control the entire Earth is a tempting one, however, and, while everyone pays lip-service to the ideal of a free and open-source Earth, some of the chosen candidates hope to keep Earth proprietary so they can finally implement lootboxes and wring a little more money out of the playerbase. Only a desperate struggle of persuasion over the hearts and minds of the eight candidates can determine the future of Earth...
Yet amidst all this, one extra player has infiltrated the all-important corporate meeting. According to rumor, this individual spent billions of dollars (about $3.50 in today's currency) on a super-limited-edition realistic cat outfit DLC only minutes before the announcement of the server closure; filled with invidious rage over not only this wasted opportunity, but a whole lifetime of watching furry dreams slip away, the mystery player's only desire is to stall the negotiations until the server maintainers run out of money and have no choice but to put an end to everyone's fun.
Ten days of server funds remain. Unless you are the Serial Molester, you win when everyone (except the Serial Molester) shares your alignment, no matter what that might be. Whether you choose to fight for open- or closed-source is your own decision. Well, except insofar as it's actually the decision of other players voting to change your alignment.
Day 1 has begun. It will end on or around this time tomorrow, or possibly sooner if all votes have been cast. I still have a sleep disorder (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171530), but I'll do my best to keep a reasonable pace.
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The corporate battle for Earth commences.
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Looking at the OP, I don't think there's any situation in which every currently town player wins but not every currently mafia player does, or vice versa. Weird roles might interfere with this, but it'd have to be something extreme like a 3p convert. So essentially, the two groups share* a win condition, so are of the same alignment*.
(I'm going to append a * on the end of words to indicate they are being used in a meta way, referring to the actual conditions-under-which-we-win, not our official alignments or wincons. I suggest everyone else do the same or something similar, or this will get confusing fast.)
Given the above, I think town-mafia cooperation is the order of the day. The question becomes whether or not we want to convert ourselves to town or mafia.
There's a lot of unknowns concerning third party abilities, so be careful with claims. Think slowly about how hiding your ability or alignment could help defend us against 3p machinations before revealing anything.
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I interpret it differently. The third party is a wildcard factor who may cause a collective loss for both Town and the Cult, but that by itself does not intrinsically mean Town and Cult should be allies; if by 10 days one has more numbers than the other, then one loses and one wins.
We're going to have to zero in on the Cult members if we want to win this game.
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Uh... how does the third party cause the collective loss then?
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Because the 3rd Party's own objective is to ensure its own victory.
There are three teams in here: The Town, Cult, and the 3rd Party. We have to be on the lookout for the 3rd Party, but we also have to be aware of the Cult and stop them from doing conversions on the side. If the Cult has more members than us by 10 Days, then we lose. Once and if the Town secures the Cult, then it'd be easier to blockade the 3rd Party if we find out who it is.
On another note, I theorize that the 3rd Party may have a Kill ability; while both the Town and Cult only have conversion and any other Role ability they were assigned by Maximum Spin.
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Ten days of server funds remain. Unless you are the Serial Molester, you win when everyone (except the Serial Molester) shares your alignment, no matter what that might be.
You sure about that Lidku?
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My initial viewpoint that we're against the Cult, along with the 3rd Party, comes from this, in the OP post:
One side or the other must win within a time limit proportional to the number of players, or everyone is doomed!
Also the quote you bring up doesn't disprove what I've said. It infers that you win the game when everyone that shares your alignment, no matter what that might be (Town or Cult), has that alignment until the end of the game. It doesn't mean that Town and Cult are allies in this. It was just laying down the end goal objective from a second-person viewpoint. Though admittedly it's kinda confusing and just my personal interpretation of it.
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Ok... seriously starting to suspect Lidku is the SM.
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Guys, guys, guys. You're getting off-subject.
I am a Cultist.
Ok... seriously starting to suspect Lidku is the SM.
Stfu, you're wrong. That's exactly what my win condition states as well.
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Why would you want to reveal yourself? :o
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Webadict is generally very funny.
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Because being voted and being recruited are two different but similar things. I can't control the hidden vote, but I CAN control the public one. So converting to Town is better for all of us.
So, the question I have is: Do you think I'm the SM?
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Actually, that's not entirely true. I COULD control the hidden vote by publicly stating who the Cult should vote for, but I have to generally declare the direction the Cult vote should go regardless.
You guys think this is Cult vs. Town? You're wrong. It's Cult vs. SM vs. Town, and our win-goals rely on the Cult and Town finding the SM, and THEN working together to make sure the Town and Cult are one alignment at the end.
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Even if the Serial Molester was found, how would the Cult & Town deal with them? Unless someone from the Cult & Town has an undisclosed Kill ability ("Vigilante"-analogue)?
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SM? Huh.
I guess it would be in our best interest to tell each other our roles and then write off people one by one or something?
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Even if the Serial Molester was found, how would the Cult & Town deal with them? Unless someone from the Cult & Town has an undisclosed Kill ability ("Vigilante"-analogue)?
Don't worry about that just yet. We take one step at a time.
SM? Huh.
I guess it would be in our best interest to tell each other our roles and then write off people one by one or something?
That's usually something said when you reveal your role first.
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I don't recommend anyone revealing their Roles. We don't know if the Serial Molester has a Kill ability or not. We should wait for Day 2 and see if anyone dies.
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Unless the SM has a power that lets him flip roles himself, how does he stop the Cult publicly claiming and targeting itself with the cult conversion while the town uses its public conversion on every Cult member in turn?
What happens if the town and cult conversion target the same player?
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What happens if the town and cult conversion target the same player?
The town conversion happens first, and then, if the player was actually town, the cult conversion happens. (See rules: cult conversion doesn't happen if town conversion hits true.)
So this essentially becomes a guaranteed toggle (except for nonconvertible SM).
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I have a question: Did someone whisper me Lidku's alignment?
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How does Town conversion work? Is it a public vote or a hidden vote, like the Cult?
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How does Town conversion work? Is it a public vote or a hidden vote, like the Cult?
Oops, that's in the Rules. I meant is it everyone's vote that counts or just the Town's?
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I have a question: Did someone whisper me Lidku's alignment?
What did the whisper say?
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Unless the SM has a power that lets him flip roles himself, how does he stop the Cult publicly claiming and targeting itself with the cult conversion while the town uses its public conversion on every Cult member in turn?
Yeah, this is the entire point. Unless the game is completely breakable from the get-go, we have to assume the SM has some powerful ability that lets them fight back if town massclaims. Otherwise we have ten days to hit presumably three or four players, when it's in their own interest to claim.
You guys think this is Cult vs. Town? You're wrong. It's Cult vs. SM vs. Town, and our win-goals rely on the Cult and Town finding the SM, and THEN working together to make sure the Town and Cult are one alignment at the end.
This is stupid. It is cult&town vs SM, like I said.
Unless you've adopted the * notation, but I suspect nobody is going to bother making themselves clear.
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Oops, that's in the Rules. I meant is it everyone's vote that counts or just the Town's?
Everyone's! It'd be pretty suspicious if a second choice won due to the cult's votes not counting.
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I think it's really difficult to find a single target on D1, but maybe it'll happen.
I don't think anyone who's posted yet is the Serial Monstercat, maybe Knightwing?
Is it Web or NJW? Probably not.
Lidku or Jim? Maybe.
Knightwing? TBD
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The funny part is once we ID the Serial Furry then we just have to ignore him and get one side to win right? I find it hard to believe an outed Third Party would be able to hinder us with 10 days available.
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Lidku or Jim? Maybe
I can understand me to some extent being suspected, since NJW has put it up in the air that I might be the "SM," but why Jim though? All he has done so far is ask a question.
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I have a question: Did someone whisper me Lidku's alignment?
What did the whisper say?
What do you think it possibly could have said? Think about Web's POV. I can take a guess what he was told, if he's even telling the truth.
Lidku or Jim? Maybe
I can understand me to some extent being suspected, since NJW has put it up in the air that I might be the "SM," but why Jim though? All he has done so far is ask a question.
I have no confidence one way or the other. I'm actually leaning everyone who's posted so far as less likely than likely, so not exactly being suspected.
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Not to ask the rude question but is this game worth playing if the town and cult work together to find the SM?
I.E., does the SM have decent odds of victory and he won't just be steamrolled? Is there an actual game to play above the rote execution of a strategy identified early on?
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Well, web said that normally if I said something like that, I was supposed to post my role, but then somebody said don’t post roles so I dunno.
I am Town, a factchecker.
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Knightwing is not the SM.
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Well, web said that normally if I said something like that, I was supposed to post my role, but then somebody said don’t post roles so I dunno.
I am Town, a factchecker.
What abilities does the Fact-Checker role have?
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Well, web said that normally if I said something like that, I was supposed to post my role, but then somebody said don’t post roles so I dunno.
I am Town, a factchecker.
What abilities does the Fact-Checker role have?
I’m not saying that out loud? If you say your role and ability, sure.
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Knightwing is not the SM.
^True.
So, here's do we go for a Cult win or a Town win, Toony?
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Unless the SM has a power that lets him flip roles himself, how does he stop the Cult publicly claiming and targeting itself with the cult conversion while the town uses its public conversion on every Cult member in turn?
Yeah, this is the entire point. Unless the game is completely breakable from the get-go, we have to assume the SM has some powerful ability that lets them fight back if town massclaims. Otherwise we have ten days to hit presumably three or four players, when it's in their own interest to claim.
You guys think this is Cult vs. Town? You're wrong. It's Cult vs. SM vs. Town, and our win-goals rely on the Cult and Town finding the SM, and THEN working together to make sure the Town and Cult are one alignment at the end.
This is stupid. It is cult&town vs SM, like I said.
Unless you've adopted the * notation, but I suspect nobody is going to bother making themselves clear.
That's not entirely true.
The Cult and the Town are on the same side, but they are not on the same team. Working together requires reading one side or the other.
@Max: What happens in the event of a tie for a Town vote? What happens in the event of a tie for a Cult vote? Can you vote yourself in the Town vote? Can you vote yourself in the Cult vote?
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I say we tentatively vote for our method of winning.
I vote Town.
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Oooh, I get it. Sorry Web. That was slow of me and careless of Lidku. Little bit bastard, eh?
I say we tentatively vote for our method of winning.
I vote Town.
Unless I get cult-converted first, I'm only ok with Town.
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Since we're apparently revealing our roles, but not our abilities, I guess I'll showcase mine:
I'm a Town, Stand User.
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Hmm...
I'm going to lie.
I'm a Cult Astronomer.
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I vote Town winning.
I'm a Town Brainwasher.
Since Webadict is claiming Cult we should vote him today to make him town.
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I have no problems being voted.
webadict.
I will note that my power becomes pretty useless as Town...
Well, almost useless. It's good for clearing.
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Toonyman: what does a brainwasher do?
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I think we should've saved webadict for last, since he's cooperating for us. webadict might've been able to eke out some suspicious Cult activity and/or abilities, even if the Cult doesn't have shared communications this game.
But since webadict is already two votes deep, lets go for him.
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webadict
Might as well just up on the web chain.
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webadict.
I am a Town Researcher.
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@Max: What happens in the event of a tie for a Town vote? What happens in the event of a tie for a Cult vote? Can you vote yourself in the Town vote? Can you vote yourself in the Cult vote?
SM decides, chosen randomly, yes, yes but why?
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Good. That's needed information.
Okay, let's make sure everyone gets a claim out.
I think we should've saved webadict for last, since he's cooperating for us. webadict might've been able to eke out some suspicious Cult activity and/or abilities, even if the Cult doesn't have shared communications this game.
Would you mind explaining this statement for me?
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Also, who the fuck keeps telling me Alignments?!?
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You said previously that you heard somesort of whisper and keep hearing alignments? If the Cult is doing background activities that the Town can't pick up on, leaving you as a turned agent in our favor would net us information against them. But that opportunity is mute now since you're going to be the chosen D1 deconversion.
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You said previously that you heard somesort of whisper and keep hearing alignments? If the Cult is doing background activities that the Town can't pick up on, leaving you as a turned agent in our favor would net us information against them. But that opportunity is mute now since you're going to be the chosen D1 deconversion.
The whispers appear to be lying to me, so I'm not sure what they're for. It's unlikely that they're Cult-related.
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Hi, I exist in this game.
Real quick, does anyone know for sure how the 3P wins? As it is right now, we don't have any reason to believe that it isn't mechanically similar to a Jester, meaning they could win by receiving everyone's votes.
Now, I'm not sure if Web just says "no fun allowed" as 3P and convinces everyone to vote him on Day 1 by claiming cult for an easy early win. I think him wanting to mechanically solve the game right out of the gate is townie for him, and it seems genuine. If anyone else here is good at reading him and agrees with me about my read, then yeah voting Web today is fine. However, if there's some uncertainty then maybe we shouldn't rush the vote yet.
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Hmm. Paranoia time. Perhaps web is not receiving messages, but sending them and wanting someone else to chime in that they're getting them? Some kind of SM ability where you can send messages to X role but don't know who they are?
Nah, that'd never happen. I've also gotten two messages with lidku and njw's alignments. Not sure if I trust em though.
Hmm, going back to conspiracy, perhaps SM has the power to cop roles through me if I report them back to the thread?
I vote Town Victory, of course.
From phone and about to get home so more later.
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Hi, I exist in this game.
Real quick, does anyone know for sure how the 3P wins? As it is right now, we don't have any reason to believe that it isn't mechanically similar to a Jester, meaning they could win by receiving everyone's votes.
Now, I'm not sure if Web just says "no fun allowed" as 3P and convinces everyone to vote him on Day 1 by claiming cult for an easy early win. I think him wanting to mechanically solve the game right out of the gate is townie for him, and it seems genuine. If anyone else here is good at reading him and agrees with me about my read, then yeah voting Web today is fine. However, if there's some uncertainty then maybe we shouldn't rush the vote yet.
Well, you either vote me, or I gotta convert everyone.
But, you appear to not have claimed anything, from your method of victory to your alignment to your role. Why is that, mon amie?
Hmm. Paranoia time. Perhaps web is not receiving messages, but sending them and wanting someone else to chime in that they're getting them? Some kind of SM ability where you can send messages to X role but don't know who they are?
Nah, that'd never happen. I've also gotten two messages with lidku and njw's alignments. Not sure if I trust em though.
Hmm, going back to conspiracy, perhaps SM has the power to cop roles through me if I report them back to the thread?
I vote Town Victory, of course.
From phone and about to get home so more later.
That's the beauty of voting me. Either I win and the game is over, or I'm confirmed as being not SM! That sounds like a win-win to me!
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Hm. Web's self-voting does suggest good intentions... I have my suspiscions though, about various things, including the cult wincon. Ones I will very readily air if I don't like what goes on tomorrow.
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Everyone hears that ToonyMan is Town.
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Toonyman: what does a brainwasher do?
They brain wash!
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Oh, I didn't claim because it doesn't matter much. I'm town and would prefer a town victory, but I can swap alignments whenever I want using two different methods. So if town ends up sinking later, I can swap to cult if necessary.
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This is something I clued at a few posts past in the thread, but I think I'll touch base on it some more:
I think the gamemaster, Maximum Spin, wants to keep how the 3rd Party is going to win a secret/surprise, considering how ambiguous they've been about it generally. Though I suspect it will be through the 3rd Party having a Kill ability.
I suspect (but this could all just be pure nonsense that isn't actually the case) to balance this, some individual from either the Town or the Cult team (or two selected individuals from either team at the same time) will have the Kill ability as well, and it'd be their responsibility ensuring that the 3rd Party dies, once said 3rd is finally discovered. Maximum Spin only said they can't be converted to either side but didn't say they can't die.
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Um... That's five Town claims...
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I have a question: Did someone whisper me Lidku's alignment?
Also, who the fuck keeps telling me Alignments?!?
Nah, that'd never happen. I've also gotten two messages with lidku and njw's alignments. Not sure if I trust em though.
Anybody else want to claim getting these weird whispers?
Toonyman: what does a brainwasher do?
They brain wash!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw-9Mj7qZvo
Everyone hears that ToonyMan is Town.
I don't know how the SM wins this with apparently a million public and private alignment inspects going on.
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Something that bothers me about Webadict is that he asks if anybody "whispered" to him 2 hours into the game here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179949.msg8385714#msg8385714) I have no idea who that could be unless it was Knightwing with their Factchecker claim. It wasn't Lidku. It could be Jim or NJW. Or Max is sending them himself, which would be bastard. Or Webadict is lying, but that would make him the Serial Moleman.
Anybody else want to claim getting these weird whispers?
All silent here.
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I have my doubts about mass role claiming, BUT:
Both Web and Toony condone it, and only one player in the game has a wincon opposed to me, meaning that at least one player who is smarter than me and on my side says I should do it.
Therefore, I am Cult Factchecker. I'm curious if my power works identically to Knightwing's.
Not sure who is SM. Trying to play town and cult against one another would be a sign, as would be wanting to be voted.
Speaking of, Webadict. Maybe we'll end this hell game early, eh?
One last thing, as far as I know cult have no tricks up our sleeves. Our wincon is the same as town's.
I don't know how the SM wins this with apparently a million public and private alignment inspects going on.
They can lie.
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I have a question: Did someone whisper me Lidku's alignment?
Also, who the fuck keeps telling me Alignments?!?
Nah, that'd never happen. I've also gotten two messages with lidku and njw's alignments. Not sure if I trust em though.
Anybody else want to claim getting these weird whispers?
I think you missed it, but Egan_BW has also claimed hearing whispers.
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Unless Knightwing wants to confirm he's the Whisperer, I don't think he is.
So I think we could pretty reasonably say the Whisperer is:
1. Webadict himself, he makes himself look like the first target and then starts sending them to other people.
2. Jim or NJW, they were around to send Webadict the first whisper.
3. Maximum Spin, which makes this game kind of evil and I don't approve.
Cult Factchecker.
You have a friend now, Mr. "Astronomer"!
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Knightwing, do you think that we should reveal what Factchecker does? I would not want to blab about it if you think it's best to keep that info from SM.
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1. Webadict himself, he makes himself look like the first target and then starts sending them to other people.
So is this an imply that webadict might be the SM, with some sort of ability that can misdirect people? Get the first D1 vote on him as well, to clear any suspicions of him as the SM going forward in the game?
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So I think we could pretty reasonably say the Whisperer is:
3. Maximum Spin, which makes this game kind of evil and I don't approve.
I don't really want to interfere with the theorycrafting, but I want to stipulate that, besides the weird mechanics which we agreed to from the start, this isn't any kind of bastard game and I'm not sending secret messages.
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man playing mafia as Town* is way less stressful, I should do this every time. sadly I probably won't learn very much from this very unique setup
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And to clarify, I don't think webadict is the SM. I just want to understand what ToonyMan means by his first point.
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Web would have to both have a lot of extra information and be pretty clever early on to be SM, otherwise he's cult.
Does that sound like Web? I get the feeling that his clever tricks don't usually come into play 2 hours into the game.
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So I think we could pretty reasonably say the Whisperer is:
3. Maximum Spin, which makes this game kind of evil and I don't approve.
I don't really want to interfere with the theorycrafting, but I want to stipulate that, besides the weird mechanics which we agreed to from the start, this isn't any kind of bastard game and I'm not sending secret messages.
Okay, mod confirmed.
How about this post:
Everyone hears that ToonyMan is Town.
Is this guaranteed? At least at the moment it was said?
1. Webadict himself, he makes himself look like the first target and then starts sending them to other people.
So is this an imply that webadict might be the SM, with some sort of ability that can misdirect people? Get the first D1 vote on him as well, to clear any suspicions of him as the SM going forward in the game?
Voting the SM is actually bad I think? Since we'll waste one of our townconvert votes. I don't think it does anything to vote the SM since they can't be converted. I chose Webadict as my townconvert vote simply because they claimed Cult, but Egan would work perfectly fine here as well now that they've claimed. I don't think either are SM.
That makes me think though, maybe the SM has some ability to switch people's alignments to prevent unity? That would be powerful enough to disrupt our plays.
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How about this post:
Everyone hears that ToonyMan is Town.
Is this guaranteed? At least at the moment it was said?
No.
Power roles might result in the announcement of extra information, but, depending on the player's motivations, it might not actually be true.
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I think everyone who has not at least posted once, has a high percentage chance of being the SM. That person being: BluarianKnight.
But my "high" percentage curbs downward in remembering, in particular, that in the BYOR game, BluarianKnight was generally rendered inactive due to IRL responsibilities.
So that means while I have very loose suspicions on BluarianKnight, it's actually more likely the real SM has already posted in this thread.
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That makes me think though, maybe the SM has some ability to switch people's alignments to prevent unity? That would be powerful enough to disrupt our plays.
Hmm?
Oh, I didn't claim because it doesn't matter much. I'm town and would prefer a town victory, but I can swap alignments whenever I want using two different methods. So if town ends up sinking later, I can swap to cult if necessary.
Hmmmmmm.
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That's pretty OP that Roden can apparently switch alignments at will. But I guess its face-value OPness can be stymied if it's a "X-Shot" ability, one that can only be used a certain amount of times?
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And its kinda strange that Roden just explains his role ability, but not the role title at all ("claim"). So far, everyone has stated their Roles but not their abilities. Why did Roden do the opposite?
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I don't think that roden has explained his ability fully, he just said that he can change alignment by two different methods, yes? My guess is two oneshots to decide the public vote and the cult vote.
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Eh. Might as well at this point. I am a Factchecker
(Every day, you can choose one target, including yourself. If you are cult, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced in the main thread; your target will be said to be town if he is actually cult and vice versa. If you are town, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced to all cult members.)
I targeted NJW, which means their town, at least for now. I think Jim said he heard the announcement? Which would make him cult also. Web and Egan are confirmed cults.
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Jim never said he heard the announcements/whispers. He just wanted to inquire who else was hearing them.
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So Factcheckers are insane cops.
Egan_BW, are you responsible for the announcement about ToonyMan's alignment?
Jim never said he heard the announcements/whispers. He just wanted to inquire who else was hearing them.
This is correct.
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No, my power has not been used yet.
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Knightwing's power is identical to mine, I was wondering if the town version is un-reverified. I don't think anyone else has claimed factchecker per se so Lidku and Toony's results might be right-way-round still?
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Claim: My ability allows me to screw with voting. Including cult voting. So if I think the cult are trying to target someone else, I can mess them up.
I am (currently) town.
Still thinking about Lidku's early posts.
Um... That's five Town claims...
You think someone is lying about their alignment? I think someone might be. I think I know why they might be. I'll go into it tomorrow if I feel provoked to. We all want to win.
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Nobody but me and web have claimed cult, and web is supposed to become town. Shall I secret-vote for myself, or use my inspect?
NJW, I do still have an inspect, it'll come up publicly the opposite of what it should be. If you suspect someone is cult and claimed town, tell me so that I can inspect and then PM-vote them.
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That's pretty OP that Roden can apparently switch alignments at will. But I guess its face-value OPness can be stymied if it's a "X-Shot" ability, one that can only be used a certain amount of times?
And its kinda strange that Roden just explains his role ability, but not the role title at all ("claim"). So far, everyone has stated their Roles but not their abilities. Why did Roden do the opposite?
It's not as OP as you might think. There are stipulations, and claiming my role name would more or less out how it works. It's a "exactly what it says on the tin" kind of role.
I don't think that roden has explained his ability fully, he just said that he can change alignment by two different methods, yes? My guess is two oneshots to decide the public vote and the cult vote.
I'll just say that I hinted in this general direction.
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Eh. Might as well at this point. I am a Factchecker
(Every day, you can choose one target, including yourself. If you are cult, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced in the main thread; your target will be said to be town if he is actually cult and vice versa. If you are town, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced to all cult members.)
I targeted NJW, which means their town, at least for now. I think Jim said he heard the announcement? Which would make him cult also. Web and Egan are confirmed cults.
So who whispered Lidku's alignment to the cult?
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No one else claim roles.
There's two of each
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Nobody but me and web have claimed cult, and web is supposed to become town. Shall I secret-vote for myself, or use my inspect?
NJW, I do still have an inspect, it'll come up publicly the opposite of what it should be. If you suspect someone is cult and claimed town, tell me so that I can inspect and then PM-vote them.
Not 100% sure yet.
No one else claim roles.
There's two of each
A symmetrical situation? I've considered it, but there seem to be more than three "Factcheckers".
...too many unknowns are stunting my play. I'll get some sleep.
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Eh. Might as well at this point. I am a Factchecker
(Every day, you can choose one target, including yourself. If you are cult, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced in the main thread; your target will be said to be town if he is actually cult and vice versa. If you are town, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced to all cult members.)
I targeted NJW, which means their town, at least for now. I think Jim said he heard the announcement? Which would make him cult also. Web and Egan are confirmed cults.
So who whispered Lidku's alignment to the cult?
I'd like to know this as well...
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Dunno. Somebody/somebodies are doing a lot of whispering. I think it could be the SM?
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Everyone hears that ToonyMan is Cult.
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What the heck??
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Dunno. Somebody/somebodies are doing a lot of whispering. I think it could be the SM?
Yeah. I think it's Jim or NJW.
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Dunno. Somebody/somebodies are doing a lot of whispering. I think it could be the SM?
They're probably a JOAT of some kind.
Also, with two different results on Toony, that means one of two things. Either a rouge cult member wants to go for a cult win and is trying to muddy Toony's alignment, or 3P is causing chaos and letting us know that they're a powerful role.
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I'm not rogue, I just wanted to check D:
Toony is town, I used my ability and it spits lies. This gives me confirmation that the other role does in fact give truths instead.
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Um... That's five Town claims...
What do you think the set up is?
5 town, 3 cult, 1 3P seems reasonable.
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I'm not rogue, I just wanted to check D:
Toony is town, I used my ability and it spits lies. This gives me confirmation that the other role does in fact give truths instead.
Hmm...I think that means the first person to Fact Check Toony had to be 3P.
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Um... That's five Town claims...
What do you think the set up is?
5 town, 3 cult, 1 3P seems reasonable.
Web later said that there's two of each role which would mean 4 town 4 cult 1 SM.
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Eh. Might as well at this point. I am a Factchecker
(Every day, you can choose one target, including yourself. If you are cult, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced in the main thread; your target will be said to be town if he is actually cult and vice versa. If you are town, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced to all cult members.)
I targeted NJW, which means their town, at least for now. I think Jim said he heard the announcement? Which would make him cult also. Web and Egan are confirmed cults.
NJW should have been announced as Cult to the Cult members. Same with Lidku, as long as they're both telling the truth about their alignments.
Lidku...is a Fact Checker as well, and targeted himself. Either that or 3P is Multitasking and can send seperate checks publically and to the Cult.
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Um... That's five Town claims...
What do you think the set up is?
5 town, 3 cult, 1 3P seems reasonable.
Web later said that there's two of each role which would mean 4 town 4 cult 1 SM.
That would mean we have two Cult members lying to town even when we have two other Cult members outing their alignment. That seems a little off to me.
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I have a question: Did someone whisper me Lidku's alignment?
What did the whisper say?
This is an interesting question. It feels like Lidku is informed of what the whisper means and is trying to secretly get information from Web.
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webadict.
I am a Town Researcher.
This sounds like a JOAT soft claim. Let me guess, you were going to claim that you could target people to get a copy of their abilities?
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Um... That's five Town claims...
What do you think the set up is?
5 town, 3 cult, 1 3P seems reasonable.
Web later said that there's two of each role which would mean 4 town 4 cult 1 SM.
That would mean we have two Cult members lying to town even when we have two other Cult members outing their alignment. That seems a little off to me.
One of the Town is lying, which is a bad lie, since they'll never be voted, but whatever.
NJW has my role, so I know they're legit, and that maps to the town and cult version of factchecker.
Also, is there no Hammer? Do we have to shorten these games? Lame.
Shorten? I'm pretty much confirmed Town, and we'll need to see what happens Tomorrow.
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Sorry, confirmed Cult*. Force of habit?
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Not cult for much longer, I'll have to actually try some reads or something for my D2 cultvote. :v
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Um... That's five Town claims...
What do you think the set up is?
5 town, 3 cult, 1 3P seems reasonable.
Web later said that there's two of each role which would mean 4 town 4 cult 1 SM.
That would mean we have two Cult members lying to town even when we have two other Cult members outing their alignment. That seems a little off to me.
One of the Town is lying, which is a bad lie, since they'll never be voted, but whatever.
NJW has my role, so I know they're legit, and that maps to the town and cult version of factchecker.
Also, is there no Hammer? Do we have to shorten these games? Lame.
Shorten? I'm pretty much confirmed Town, and we'll need to see what happens Tomorrow.
Looking at his role, mechanically it seems similar to mine as well.
Also I'll go ahead and vote Webadict and Shorten.
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... Are there... 3, 3, and 3?
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It's possible, or at least maybe we have variations of the same base role. Maybe 3 Fact Checkers, 3 vote manipulators, and 3 wild cards?
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Also, is there no Hammer? Do we have to shorten these games? Lame.
I prefer to give everyone a chance to vote, but I can be talked out of it, I guess.
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I'd be happy to laze around for the clock tbh
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Shorten? I'm pretty much confirmed Town, and we'll need to see what happens Tomorrow.
Days are already only 24 hours.
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Oh, if they're 24 hours, that's fine then.
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I don't think Blu ever posted, so I'm fine with waiting the day out to give her a chance to play.
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5 town, 3 cult, 1 3P seems reasonable.
I think it might be 4v4v1.
webadict.
I am a Town Researcher.
This sounds like a JOAT soft claim. Let me guess, you were going to claim that you could target people to get a copy of their abilities?
Nah, I've only got one ability and it's unlimited.
So we've got:
Town Factchecker
Cult Factchecker
Town Brainwasher
Town Researcher
Cult """""Astronomer"""""
Town """""Astronomer"""""
Roden's role
whatever Lidku's role is
whatever BK's role is
I would not be surprised to find out there is a Cult Brainwasher and a Cult Researcher.
If the setup is akshually shymmetric than Roden is the odd man out here.
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A Cult Brainwasher doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess they could exist. I say this because my ability changes whether I'm Town or Cult.
I wouldn't put 100% faith in everybody's roles splitting so nicely. This would ostracize the SM even worse than they already are. How do they blend in already at this point?
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Although if I believe Jim then yes Roden is probably just the SM and I don't understand how they can win.
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I didn't really read Knightwing's claim. It looks like that Factcheckers also behave differently depending on if they're town or cult at the time, so nevermind on that point. Lidku or Bluarian is likely the other Brainwasher if they exist then.
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Jim is either not paying attention or he's just 3P
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After webadict declared his intention to defect from the closed-source faction, the choice was clear. Two cases of soma and an all-nighter of intense debugging of the human brain code later, the developers are satisfied in their conviction that he must be town by now. Nine days of server funding remain.
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First! We voting me or hunting for undeclared cult?
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Let me do something first.
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Yeah, I turned Town. Woo!
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Oh, and Egan_BW
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We might as well just vote Egan_BW now since they've disclosed their alignment already and webadict just started the vote on them.
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Ok, looks like my theory was very wrong, so never mind my last few posts.
I’m not really sure what’s going on. I’ll have to go over yesterday’s events more carefully, but people are still leaving a lot unsaid, which might not be pro-town*. I’m still very suspicious of Lidku.
I’m also wondering about a frightening possibility. What if the SM can pass on their alignment? I doubt they’d have a cult convert, but maybe a one-shot alignment swap…
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Everyone hears that Roden is town.
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Ok, looks like my theory was very wrong, so never mind my last few posts.
I’m not really sure what’s going on. I’ll have to go over yesterday’s events more carefully, but people are still leaving a lot unsaid, which might not be pro-town*. I’m still very suspicious of Lidku.
I’m also wondering about a frightening possibility. What if the SM can pass on their alignment? I doubt they’d have a cult convert, but maybe a one-shot alignment swap…
Okay, but:
1) What do we do about it?
2) How do we find out about it?
We can speculate all we want, but it doesn't really matter because we don't really have the means to confirm nor fight it if it does exist.
@Max: We still haven't had BluarianKnight post yet, can she be poked?
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Ok, looks like my theory was very wrong, so never mind my last few posts.
I’m not really sure what’s going on. I’ll have to go over yesterday’s events more carefully, but people are still leaving a lot unsaid, which might not be pro-town*. I’m still very suspicious of Lidku.
I’m also wondering about a frightening possibility. What if the SM can pass on their alignment? I doubt they’d have a cult convert, but maybe a one-shot alignment swap…
What suspicions do you have of me?
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We don't need to vote Egan today, they should be town now.
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Yeah, I turned Town. Woo!
What were you told when it happened?
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Everyone hears that Roden is town.
Didn’t you say Toony man was cult before? I’m not too sure about u
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Yeah, I turned Town. Woo!
What were you told when it happened?
Not a lot. It says I'm not Cult anymore, that my role didn't change, and that I can't vote for Cult nomination anymore. Which is fair, because I asked for what my role PM would look like as Town on Day 1, just to see the differences.
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@Knightwing:
It's one of the Factcheckers I think.
Egan should be able to confirm their alignmemt by checking Webadict. The result should be that Web is town. They could also check me, but that seems redundant and too conservative. By checking Web we will confirm both are town most likely. Since Egan will now be giving truthful results.
I made myself unconvertable yesterday so I should guaranteed be town still today as well.
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... That's not how Town Factchecker works. I now send false results to cult, meaning that we won't be able to use my power to confirm anything without cult help.
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(Every day, you can choose one target, including yourself. If you are cult, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced in the main thread; your target will be said to be town if he is actually cult and vice versa. If you are town, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced to all cult members.)
Bold for emphasis.
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Also yes I am town now, which in inconvenient because there's no way for me to confirm that to town and if both town and cult vote me today I'll wind up cult again, wasting the town vote. Why Toony, either you're clever cookie SM or you should have read Knight's roleclaim more carefully.
If timing helps, I got my conversion PM just a bit before this post:
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Who did the Cultists vote to convert?
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Ok, looks like my theory was very wrong, so never mind my last few posts.
I’m not really sure what’s going on. I’ll have to go over yesterday’s events more carefully, but people are still leaving a lot unsaid, which might not be pro-town*. I’m still very suspicious of Lidku.
I’m also wondering about a frightening possibility. What if the SM can pass on their alignment? I doubt they’d have a cult convert, but maybe a one-shot alignment swap…
What suspicions do you have of me?
Win condition stuff at the start of the game was odd. But perhaps a misunderstanding.
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This may prove a useful bit of terminology: let's call players aiming for town victory open source, and those aiming for cult victory closed source. I'm not sure if we have any closed players, but it's a useful distinction from town and cult. Web was cult, but open.
Who did the Cultists vote to convert?
I voted for Web, since by GM confirmation web getting voted by both results in him becoming town if he's cult, which he definitely was.
However, I received no confirmation as to what the result of the cult vote was.
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In theory, the cultist vote shouldn't have happened.
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Or rather, done nothing, if I understood the rules correctly.
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@Knightwing:
It's one of the Factcheckers I think.
Egan should be able to confirm their alignmemt by checking Webadict. The result should be that Web is town. They could also check me, but that seems redundant and too conservative. By checking Web we will confirm both are town most likely. Since Egan will now be giving truthful results.
I made myself unconvertable yesterday so I should guaranteed be town still today as well.
I'm already confirmed, unless you think the SM can hear the alignment whispers.
Or rather, done nothing, if I understood the rules correctly.
I know for a fact it didn't.
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I'm pretty sure Blu is Cult, so inspect her
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Who did the Cultists vote to convert?
There is no way to know, as even the Cultists ("closed-source") votes are anonymous between each other.
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Well whatever, either way Egan is town and you'll have to take the word of the two of us.
Bluarian for now.
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I guess we just go for Blue and see if we win? There's not much to go on yet, as far as I can tell.
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Man I'm going to have to change my avatar back. I lose myself way too easily without the old one.
Who did the Cultists vote to convert?
There is no way to know, as even the Cultists ("closed-source") votes are anonymous between each other.
Except if Cultists like yourself claim how they voted thumbsupemoji.
Bluarian for now.
This is fine.
BluarianKnight.
Is your power to make people immune to conversions use limited?
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I'm pretty sure Blu is Cult, so inspect her
Do you suspect Lidku of being Cult based on D1 inspections? If there's two of each inspection role they'd have to be, but it's possible there are three factcheckers.
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Is your power to make people immune to conversions use limited?
No.
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Except if Cultists like yourself claim how they voted thumbsupemoji.
I'm not Cult. I'm a regular open-sourced man.
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Except if Cultists like yourself claim how they voted thumbsupemoji.
I'm not Cult. I'm a regular open-sourced man.
Jim wtf? Lidku isn't Cult.
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Hey cult, did you guys get a alignment notification? This is of grave importance and I need to know
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Except if Cultists like yourself claim how they voted thumbsupemoji.
I'm not Cult. I'm a regular open-sourced man.
Jim wtf? Lidku isn't Cult.
Agreed.
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Bluarian Knight
I think we don't really have a choice here.
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Did Blu get prodded?
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Except if Cultists like yourself claim how they voted thumbsupemoji.
I'm not Cult. I'm a regular open-sourced man.
Jim wtf? Lidku isn't Cult.
What did the whisper you got about his alignment say on Day 1?
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Jim, don't take this the wrong way: Are you paying attention?
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Jim, don't take this the wrong way: Are you paying attention?
Pretty sure I am. What am I missing if I'm not?
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Maybe I'm not.
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Where
is
Blue
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The inspect is sent to the Cult if it's a Cult inspect. That's why we know Lidku is Town (Since the inspects are insane.) Also, Lidku can't be Cult if they don't claim Cult, because being Cult is, you know, on the Town's side. The only other person that can be Cult is BluarianKnight, Egan_BW, and... Uh... Did anyone else claim Cult?
Anyway, it's why the weird inspect that publicly showed ToonyMan as Cult is weird, because it doesn't follow the normal traditional roles.
Where
is
Blue
^This.
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I think BluarianKnight might be the SM.
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I think BluarianKnight might be the SM.
This seems like a game that needs everyone to be active, so... Ya know... What are we gonna do?
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The inspect is sent to the Cult if it's a Cult inspect. That's why we know Lidku is Town (Since the inspects are insane.) Also, Lidku can't be Cult if they don't claim Cult, because being Cult is, you know, on the Town's side. The only other person that can be Cult is BluarianKnight, Egan_BW, and... Uh... Did anyone else claim Cult?
I was typing a much longer winded explanation but it doesn't need it. Researchers are inverse Factcheckers in that our inspects are sane and are reported publicly when the Researcher is town and whispered privately when the Researcher is Cult. I think that there's a Cult Researcher rather than a second town and third overall Factchecker, that the inspect on Lidku was done by a Cult Researcher, and that Lidku is the likeliest player to have done this.
I think everybody besides Roden, BK, and Lidku have demonstrated their roles in some fashion. It could be BK but it would be weird (and disappointing) for BK to show up to fire off an inspect but otherwise do nothing. It could be Roden but I don't feel like he fits here given he already claimed and described his role abilities. Lidku claimed being a town stand-user (which I actually wasn't paying attention to and did miss) but hasn't explained or hinted at what a stand-user is supposed to do, and was also around at the time the inspect happened.
did you do the public town inspect on ToonyMan on Day 1 and Roden today
Yes, that was me.
I think BluarianKnight might be the SM.
This seems like a game that needs everyone to be active, so... Ya know... What are we gonna do?
Gripe to the moderator, I'd expect.
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Day 1
NJW check - whispered to Cult - claimed by Knightwing
Lidku check - whispered to Cult - unclaimed
Toony check #1 - public - claimed by Jim
Toony check #2 - public - claimed by Egan
Day 2
Roden check - public - claimed by Jim
Unknown check - whispered to Cult - claimed by Knightwing
If everyone is telling the truth, then I think this is accurate. Also, the only two people who aren't conftown at this point are Blu and Lidku. Web believes Lidku is town, but if the role pair theory is correct, then Lidku isn't a Town Stand User/secret Fact Checker, he's a Cult Researcher.
I think it's possible that Lidku targeted himself in that case, in an attempt to signal to the rest of his team that he was aligned with them. Cult was whispered that he was a Cult member himself, however Web believed that was a lie, and believed that it was confirmed when the Fact Checkers revealed how their role worked. However, now that we know that Researchers are the sane versions of that role, that puts the Lidku whisper in a different light. We know nobody claimed that whisper, that Blu hasn't been around, and that Lidku seemed to know what the whisper meant.
The only thing is that I don't know why he would hide this information, unless he wanted us to fail the town conversion today by voting Blu, who is likely 3P. That would potentially allow him to recruit someone into the cult tonight and attempt to go for a surprise Cult win. Maybe he thought an early town win was boring. So for that, I'll vote Lidku.
However, there's one other issue. How did Egan become town?
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I made Egan town today.
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Lidku doesn't have any reason to be sneaky as Cult. Only the SM needs to be sneaky in this setup.
Which implies Bluarian isn't the SM since they literally haven't been on while sneaky unclaimed stuff has happened.
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Theory: the SM is able to control what other players do in some way. This balances the power of the town mass claim, although town* can still figure out what’s going on and work to counter this.
Webadict: thoughts?lllp
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Theory: the SM is able to control what other players do in some way. This balances the power of the town mass claim, although town* can still figure out what’s going on and work to counter this.
Webadict: thoughts?lllp
I am thoughtless
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Could someone else vote Blue? I suspect we should have as many votes as possible on the person we want.
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Web believes Lidku is town, but if the role pair theory is correct, then Lidku isn't a Town Stand User/secret Fact Checker, he's a Cult Researcher.
BluarianKnight must be the Cult Stand User. I'm the Town Stand User.
Since we all already disclosed our Role abilities, I guess it's time to reveal what a Stand User does: I can block a vote from passing through and only the person that was targeted knows something vaguely defended them from an effect.
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Which vote?
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I don't know how the Cult Stand User might work, but my ability blocks any vote that is incoming onto them. So if the Town suspects someone is about to be Cult Converted, I can preemptively use my Protect to block them from being converted at all.
The ability is inherently very hard to use though, due to the fact that the Cult's votes are private, along with the fact there is no alert when someone has been converted.. Basically, I just have to choose a random Town and hope they were the one targeted for a vote, so the Cult vote gets wasted.
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I targeted Lidku today, didn’t show up in the thread, they aren’t cult. No cult wants to answer me if they heard the announcements, so doesn’t that leave Lidku as the SM?
Correct me if I’m wrong, cult could just not be responding for some odd, unexplained reason.
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Oop. Wow, ninja’d by Lidku
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Did Blu get prodded?
Yes.
I had a power outage this morning, so I haven't had the chance to respond to PMs or questions, so I'll give you guys a bit more time. How did you all want me to deal with the weekend, anyway?
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So for that, I'll vote Lidku.
I'll go with this. Lidku.
I don't know how the Cult Stand User might work, but my ability blocks any vote that is incoming onto them. So if the Town suspects someone is about to be Cult Converted, I can preemptively use my Protect to block them from being converted at all.
You don't know how the Cult Stand-User works? I've never been Cult but Researcher behavior is still in my role PM. I expect this is true for most roles that have different town and cult behavior.
I think you might be lying and I don't know what reason you have for it.
I targeted Lidku today, didn’t show up in the thread, they aren’t cult. No cult wants to answer me if they heard the announcements, so doesn’t that leave Lidku as the SM?
It didn't show up in thread because you aren't cult; it has everything to do with your alignment and not the result.
Did Blu get prodded?
Yes.
I think we are approaching the time when a replacement might be appropriate.
I had a power outage this morning, so I haven't had the chance to respond to PMs or questions, so I'll give you guys a bit more time. How did you all want me to deal with the weekend, anyway?
I say keep the pace. The game requires daily participation but it seems low intensity.
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I'm not Cult at all. I'm a regular average normal open-sourced man.
I have nothing to do with the Cult.
Voting for me would just be a Day 2 vote waste. I recommend just going for Egan_BW, who is a confirmed Cultist at least, or BluarianKnight, who's been suspiciously quiet for a long time (or non-suspicious that is, if being consumed by IRL activities).
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Ooooohhhhhh
I read it wrong. But I still need cult to respond on what they heard. It would confirm Lidku as town or SM
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I expect the SM is going to have a miller ability of some form. Otherwise I don't see how they survive 3 or 4 roles with inspections over 10 days.
-
Ooooohhhhhh
I read it wrong. But I still need cult to respond on what they heard. It would confirm Lidku as town or SM
They aren't responding because the last Cult is Bluarian.
Who we should be voting.
Not Lidku.
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Okay.
BluarianKnight.
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There's two reasons why Lidku doesn't want to be voted:
1. They're Town and it's a wasted vote.
2. They're SM and maybe something bad happens to them if they're voted, or they're using reverse psychology to just waste our time.
I think they're more likely Town.
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I don't know how the Cult Stand User might work, but my ability blocks any vote that is incoming onto them. So if the Town suspects someone is about to be Cult Converted, I can preemptively use my Protect to block them from being converted at all.
This is suspiciously similar to how my first Brainwasher ability works. I can prevent someone from being converted to Cult for a day. Although I'm making them unable to be converted as opposed to blocking any votes from working.
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BluarianKnight
Gonna be honest, not sure what's happening anymore this game.
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BluarianKnight
Gonna be honest, not sure what's happening anymore this game.
You and me both buddy.
BluarianKnight
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Looks like the day's choice is pretty clear, then.
After extensive refactoring at the genetic level, the last few programmers still working on the Earth project announce that BluarianKnight must be town. The maintainers call everyone back into the meeting room, but only reaffirm the need to reach consensus on the project's future direction. Eight days of server funding remain.
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Who's still Cult? Anybody get converted at end of yesterday?
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Not me.
It's Egan_BW and someone else, right? I've forgotten who claimed Cult.
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You all suddenly notice that BluarianKnight was really FallacyofUrist all along. What a twist!
If Bluarian comes back, they can just be a hydra together if they want, it's fine with me.
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Man, what a fortunate coincidence, we were supposed to kill FallacyofUrist yesterday.
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Who's still Cult? Anybody get converted at end of yesterday?
I don't think there is any Cult left.
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Who's still Cult? Anybody get converted at end of yesterday?
I don't think there is any Cult left.
But the game isn't over.
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Who's still Cult? Anybody get converted at end of yesterday?
I don't think there is any Cult left.
But the game isn't over.
There’s still the SM
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Please don't kill me yesterday.
I'll do a reread of the game thus far. It's only 15 pages, it shouldn't take that long.
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... I don't think Blu ever posted after game start? Not once.
Welp.
As much as there's a bunch of stupid bullshit going on with everyone's roles, it does seem pretty clear that all we have to do to achieve an everyone-but-third-party victory is get everyone to be either Town or Cult, right? And we're aiming for a Town 8-person win, right? The third party player is the Real Villain.
Alright, that part's simple enough.
Who's still Cult? Anybody get converted at end of yesterday?
Yeah, this is the big question now. Who's left to be converted to Town? Show of hands, everyone?
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Were you cult on Day 1 and Day 2?
Also what's your role?
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There’s still the SM
So what? Town unity would end the game right now.
The SM is fucking with us. Does this mean we have a Cult player right now who doesn't know they're Cult? This is likely why the inspections exist.
I targeted Webadict yesterday so they should still be Town today unless they're SM.
Who's still Cult? Anybody get converted at end of yesterday?
Yeah, this is the big question now. Who's left to be converted to Town? Show of hands, everyone?
You are either being ignorant because you haven't read the thread yet, or your response here is very bad. You need to tell us what you are, right now.
DID YOU START THIS GAME AS CULT? Y/N
WHAT IS YOUR ROLE NAME?
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I'm still town as far as I know. I suppose I could use my power to find out for sure.
Lidku apparently not knowing what Cult Stand User does is suspicious to me, so far every role knows what it does as both sides.
The apparent existence of unclaimed cult is confusing to me. Do you not want to win?
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I initially got confused in reading the explanation of my Role, that's my fault on my end. Both the Town and Cult Stand User have symmetric abilities like everyone else.
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I’m still town, as far as I know. I think that the SM could probably convert people to their 3rd party or something and that’s why the game hasn’t ended
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Still town as far as I'm aware. I can inspect somebody publicly which should verify my alignment.
Who's still Cult? Anybody get converted at end of yesterday?
Yeah, this is the big question now. Who's left to be converted to Town? Show of hands, everyone?
You are either being ignorant because you haven't read the thread yet, or your response here is very bad. You need to tell us what you are, right now.
Man wouldn't that be something if one always scum player is replaced by another always scum player lmao
In any case we just voted BK/FoU so I'm not sure what we're supposed to do to apply pressure.
I initially got confused in reading the explanation of my Role, that's my fault on my end. Both the Town and Cult Stand User have symmetric abilities like everyone else.
'i dont know what a Cult Stand-User does'
'uhh actually i do know i just misunderstood it'
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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DID YOU START THIS GAME AS CULT? Y/N
WHAT IS YOUR ROLE NAME?
Were you cult on Day 1 and Day 2?
Also what's your role?
Right.
Started the game as cult, and I'm a Broadcaster. Once per game I can announce my current alignment - publicly if I'm Town and to all cult members if I'm cult.
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If it needs to be said, I am presently Town. I mean that ought to be obvious after Blu was voted on Day 2, but I guess things are uncertain enough overall that it's worth communicating.
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Once per game and only on yourself? That seems pretty weak considering that Factchecker and presumably also Researcher can self-target.
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There’s still the SM
So what? Town unity would end the game right now.
The SM is fucking with us. Does this mean we have a Cult player right now who doesn't know they're Cult? This is likely why the inspections exist.
I targeted Webadict yesterday so they should still be Town today unless they're SM.
I haven't done anything all game because my ability stops people from voting, which is useless.
I haven't received any information since I was converted by the Town.
I don't know what's happening, and I'm just voting people because there's not really much point in putting in brain power for a game that has an indeterminable end goal.
BLEH BLEH bLEH BLEH EGLEMHRBLEKRMGWLKEFMAWKEE wqkfn wqekfln mqw3oipFM @#!$PO$FM #!@$OPFm 134of[p k1324pto[km134hg[po m1355hp[oglm314 g;L134mg4y P!#
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If it needs to be said, I am presently Town. I mean that ought to be obvious after Blu was voted on Day 2, but I guess things are uncertain enough overall that it's worth communicating.
Can you explain what you mean by "presently"? Are you inferring that you are indeed Cult, but you're deciding to work with Town? Or did you somehow become Town by some unknown means? Because we voted for BluarianKnight the previous Day and you've just joined. We could not have made a vote to deconvert you yet, if you are for sure Cult.
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If it needs to be said, I am presently Town. I mean that ought to be obvious after Blu was voted on Day 2, but I guess things are uncertain enough overall that it's worth communicating.
You didn't mention anything but did anything happen during Day 2 for you?
BLEH BLEH bLEH BLEH EGLEMHRBLEKRMGWLKEFMAWKEE wqkfn wqekfln mqw3oipFM @#!$PO$FM #!@$OPFm 134of[p k1324pto[km134hg[po m1355hp[oglm314 g;L134mg4y P!#
Yeah!
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FallacyofUrist was not in the game previously. They literally just joined on Day 3 now. BluarianKnight was switched out for them.
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Yes, I know.
I still want the question answered.
By 'you' in this instance I mean the slot currently filled by FoU.
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Once per game and only on yourself? That seems pretty weak considering that Factchecker and presumably also Researcher can self-target.
Heck if I know. Once per game, yes. Broadcasts only my own alignment, yes. It is what it is.
Can you explain what you mean by "presently"? Are you inferring that you are indeed Cult, but you're deciding to work with Town? Or did you somehow become Town by some unknown means? Because we voted for BluarianKnight the previous Day and you've just joined. We could not have made a vote to deconvert you yet, if you are for sure Cult.
I am Town right now. I was Cult at game start. (Or rather Blu was). Is that clear enough?
I took Blu's place in the game.
You didn't mention anything but did anything happen during Day 2 for you?
Nope.
I don't know what's happening, and I'm just voting people because there's not really much point in putting in brain power for a game that has an indeterminable end goal.
Call it a semi-bastard, I guess. The fuckery is consistent and sane, at least?
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who the heck do I vote
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Most Likely Town
ToonyMan - started town
webadict - converted Day1 via vote, I targeted them Day2 to stay town
Egan_BW - I made them town on Day 2, I can't do this unless I am also town
Bluarian/Fallacy - converted Day 2 via vote
Probably Town
Jim Groovester - checked Roden as town on Day 2
Roden - was inspected as town Day 2
Lidku - I think the Cult confirmed they were town on Day 2? Can someone confirm this?
Knightwing - claims they're town, I think there's no proof but they're probably telling the truth
Unknowns
NJW2000 - claims they're town, do we have anything to confirm this?
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NJW was the other person inspected Day 1
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You didn't mention anything but did anything happen during Day 2 for you?
Nope.
So even though you were Cult on Day 2 you didn't get a whisper about Lidku's alignment from Knightwing64 using his Factchecker power?
That's weird.
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I think the SM is still likely between Jim and NJW. Webadict and Roden are I guess possible, but Webadict would probably be doing more than fuckall if he was the culprit.
The game isn't over because the SM is doing something. We had three Cult players at the start of this game: Webadict, Egan, and Bluarian/Fallacy. Any remaining Cult player has no reason not to out at this point because we would all just win. This means that at least one of us has become Cult due to SM and isn't aware of it.
We need our Factcheckers Knightwing and Egan to do their actions today. This will let the new Cult player(s) know that they're Cult now, since they'll receive these messages.
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You didn't mention anything but did anything happen during Day 2 for you?
Nope.
So even though you were Cult on Day 2 you didn't get a whisper about Lidku's alignment from Knightwing64 using his Factchecker power?
That's weird.
Maximum Spin would have sent those messages to Bluarian, not Fallacy. It's possible he hasn't sent old messages to Fallacy.
Can the MOD confirm that all messages have been properly sent to all players?
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Can I just bet that Jim is the SM and we all win if I'm right?
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Can I just bet that Jim is the SM and we all win if I'm right?
I'm in on that. Jim has been doing weird things where he's trying to convince everyone that Cult people are bad?
If we've all gotten to Town, I'll vote Jim Groovester, because I have no idea what else we'd need to do?
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Okay, I used my inspect earlier and there was no effect in thread, which would indicate that I'm still town. Would anybody like to say they got the cult-only result? It should state that Egan_BW is Cult.
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If Jim Groovester is actually the SM, what would voting for him actually do? It was not specified at all on how either the Town or Cult could deal with the SM.
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perhaps the SM started as "cult" and we'll only win if we "convert" them?
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Okay, I used my inspect earlier and there was no effect in thread, which would indicate that I'm still town. Would anybody like to say they got the cult-only result? It should state that Egan_BW is Cult.
I haven't received anything. Which means I should be town.
And yes that means you're still town.
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perhaps the SM started as "cult" and we'll only win if we "convert" them?
If Jim Groovester is actually the SM, what would voting for him actually do? It was not specified at all on how either the Town or Cult could deal with the SM.
What happens when the SM is converted, anyways?
Oh wait. It says in the OP that the SM can't be converted. Nevermind that, then.
We probably just need to find and vote the last cult player, then. Can't be that difficult.
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Can you answer my question?
So even though you were Cult on Day 2 you didn't get a whisper about Lidku's alignment from Knightwing64 using his Factchecker power?
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Can you answer my question?
So even though you were Cult on Day 2 you didn't get a whisper about Lidku's alignment from Knightwing64 using his Factchecker power?
Oh, no, I didn't. No idea why.
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I haven't received any messages. I didn't choose to swap to Cult either.
We still don't know who targeted Lidku with a check Day 1. The fact that no one is claiming that means it has to come from the 3P at this point, I think.
I don't think voting the 3P will finish the game, looking at the mod posts it seems that they just need to stall out the game for ten days to win. So voting them likely does nothing. Converting people without their knowledge would definitely help to stall out the game. The only problem is that Fact Checkers and Researchers would help people realize if they got converted to Cult, since they should get a whisper.
Maybe...forced conversions could be permanent. Either they can't go back to being town, and/or they would die if publically voted. So now their only chance of winning would be to convert people to Cult. But even then, we have enough time to switch over to Cult if necessary, so if that were true they should still claim.
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What? Did I get roleblocked? Is that a thing?
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I feel like there's more weird shit going on than one person should be responsible for.
We still don't know who targeted Lidku with a check Day 1. The fact that no one is claiming that means it has to come from the 3P at this point, I think.
We've also got a second mystery in why FallacyofUrist didn't receive Knightwing64's inspect.
This means that at least one of us has become Cult due to SM and isn't aware of it.
Converting people without their knowledge would definitely help to stall out the game.
Is this game actually bastard enough to change players' alignments without their knowledge?
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Is this game actually bastard enough to change players' alignments without their knowledge?
How does SM win otherwise?
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What? Did I get roleblocked? Is that a thing?
It is a thing because I have that ability, but it wasn't me that did it.
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Personally, if that happened, Knightwing, the only other person with that Ability is NJW, and that outcome only happens if they're Cult targeting someone, so if you believe that NJW did it for some reason, that's what I'd say.
The OTHER option is that the SM has the Ability to use other people's Abilities. Not sure how, whether by forcably using their Ability or having a collection of Abilities.
Anyway, I'm still in favor of going after Jim Groovester because I'm still under the impression it's Jim.
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That's weird.
^Jim has been doing this shit all game, fyi.
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I've been trying to work through the role mysteries in the hopes that working through them identifies the SM.
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I've been trying to work through the role mysteries in the hopes that working through them identifies the SM.
Uh huh.
Who should we vote?
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Who should we vote?
While we can't actually kill anyone (as far as I know), it's still beneficial to track down the SM, so we know who to oppose, block, and so on.
Jim's only hit on half of how to do that. The other half is the vote.
It is in the SM's best interests to waste, obstruct, or render uncertain the Town-conversion vote.
The more conversion votes are wasted, the longer the game goes on, which is a direct path to their win condition.
If anything, I'd argue that that's the better way to track down the SM, since it's more certain. We can't be certain of what bullshit the SM can throw around, but we can be certain of who's placing what votes. Or... who isn't voting.
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Can the MOD confirm that all messages have been properly sent to all players?
Of course. I cannot, however, be held responsible for possible lack of comprehension.
I would also like to stipulate that the game is clearly still going, which means that at least one player is still cult, possibly many. There are no tricks to the provided win condition.
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Mm. Lidku. I still interpret day 1 messages as meaning that Lidku inspects as cult, there's only two Factcheckers.
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Why does Cult!Lidku not just say they are? We win today if they know they're Cult and claim as such.
There can't be any known Cult left unless they're actively sabotaging us or aren't aware they're Cult. Max has confirmed there's at least one Cult left, which does not count the SM.
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Mm. Lidku. I still interpret day 1 messages as meaning that Lidku inspects as cult, there's only two Factcheckers.
That's strange. What do two Factcheckers have to do with me being suspected? I thought it was learned that the Factchecker role is somewhat unreliable in its results?
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Knightwing was roleblocked by the SM clearly to prevent the (likely one) Cult left now to be unaware of who they are.
Which is fucking annoying!
Although it does very much confirm Knightwing isn't SM, obviously.
Is there anybody here that can do any other checks? Egan's results not being public confirms they're still town, so that's a start.
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Why does Cult!Lidku not just say they are? We win today if they know they're Cult and claim as such.
There can't be any known Cult left unless they're actively sabotaging us or aren't aware they're Cult. Max has confirmed there's at least one Cult left, which does not count the SM.
There's cult left. Because the game hasn't ended.
There's not any cult who don't realize it, because they'd have gotten a notification from my power and told us.
Therefore, there are cultists, and they've decided to not be on our side. Let's hunt them.
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Mm. Lidku. I still interpret day 1 messages as meaning that Lidku inspects as cult, there's only two Factcheckers.
This logic means you think Lidku is hiding that they're Cult from us while actively knowing they are Cult.
None of the other Cult players behaved this way. Web, Egan, and Fallacy all claimed.
There's not any cult who don't realize it, because they'd have gotten a notification from my power and told us.
Therefore, there are cultists, and they've decided to not be on our side. Let's hunt them.
...You're right. Even though Knightwing was roleblocked, you weren't. The Cult should have received your Factchecker result.
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Lidku. They were quite reluctant to be voted here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179949.msg8386324#msg8386324) on Day 2.
I'm not Cult at all. I'm a regular average normal open-sourced man.
I have nothing to do with the Cult.
Voting for me would just be a Day 2 vote waste. I recommend just going for Egan_BW, who is a confirmed Cultist at least, or BluarianKnight, who's been suspiciously quiet for a long time (or non-suspicious that is, if being consumed by IRL activities).
This doesn't sound like someone who is Town and doesn't want Town to waste their time voting them.
This sounds like someone who doesn't want to be voted because it would ruin them.
@Lidku:
Who is Cult? We're not voting Egan or Fallacy today.
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Mm. Lidku. I still interpret day 1 messages as meaning that Lidku inspects as cult, there's only two Factcheckers.
That's strange. What do two Factcheckers have to do with me being suspected? I thought it was learned that the Factchecker role is somewhat unreliable in its results?
Factchecker is reversed, not unreliable. Cult is inspected as town, and town as cult.
More importantly, on D1 there were four inspections, and I believe two of them were factcheckers and the other two were researchers, who give accurate results. NJW's inspect was done by Knightwing, a Factchecker, and one of Toony's inspects was done by me, the other factchecker.
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What about the researchers?
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@Lidku:
Who is Cult? We're not voting Egan or Fallacy today.
That's what I'm trying to figure out along with everyone else.
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Who should we vote?
I think I prefer Lidku here since my gut screams he hasn't been perfectly forthcoming with information.
Yeah let's go with Lidku.
If you want to vote me I can't stop you but it also doesn't accomplish anything since I'm already town.
Is there anybody here that can do any other checks? Egan's results not being public confirms they're still town, so that's a start.
I have not used my public inspect today.
Knightwing was roleblocked by the SM clearly to prevent the (likely one) Cult left now to be unaware of who they are.
There's an additional possibility in that FallacyofUrist didn't receive the inspect because FallacyofUrist wasn't Cult i.e. he's the SM.
You know, it might be too late now, but if we decided on converting to Cult rather than converting to Town we could probably figure out who is and isn't lying about being Cult with the private whispers. E.G., keep the factcheckers town, get as many people converted to the Cult team including me, have me and the factcheckers privately submit targets and test people one by one on who was targeted.
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What about the researchers?
Jim said he inspected me on D1 and Roden on D2.
I don't think he's done it for D3 yet?
I have not used my public inspect today.
How about you inspect Lidku and we go from there?
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Roger, give it a minute.
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Everyone hears that Lidku is cult.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEJ0ccLDII
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Called it.
Lidku
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Hmm!
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I'm not surprised, but
Why?
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Everyone hears that Lidku is cult.
(https://i.imgur.com/ThO3OY7.gif)
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Jim's inspect is likely sane, since we saw town on me D1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179949.msg8385803#msg8385803) and town on Roden D2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179949.msg8386075#msg8386075).
Unless the result is being messed with, either by Jim himself screwing with it or some third-party screwing with it, then Lidku is lying.
Lidku, if you aren't lying to us then Jim is probably a bad dude.
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It must be somesort of Serial Molester shenanigan.
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It must be somesort of Serial Molester shenanigan.
Who do you think is SM? Is it Jim, Fallacy, or someone else?
Jim has a provable ability he's used every day, but he could be really using some SM power to confuse us. I believe it's unlikely his result is being messed with by a third-party, based on how soon Max gave the public inspect post, however it's not impossible.
Fallacy...is suspicious and I am unsure about it. Claiming Cult makes sense if they're the SM, just to go along with the flow.
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It must be somesort of Serial Molester shenanigan.
Then, you'd be up to vote Jim, no?
Anyway, I'm all-in on whatever Toony does because my brain is a soup, so Lidku-Shorten.
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Oh, I also blocked Jim from Cult voting, just in case, fuck you.
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If the game is still going tomorrow then we can reassess Blu/Fallacy.
But Lidku's underwhelming response to his guilty result implies that he's just caught here.
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Vote for Lidku today,
Prevent Lidku from casting a vote in the Cult ballot,
Block FallacyofUrist from doing anything,
See where we're at on Day 4?
Is this stuff we can all do?
Oh, I also blocked Jim from Cult voting, just in case, fuck you.
Fuck you, I've been right this whole time.
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I don't think cult votes matter on a day we catch cult. I'm pretty sure their conversion attempts fail, so whether Lidku is cult or town, attempting to stop him from voting is pointless if we vote him.
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Can Cult!Lidku convert someone if they're also the vote for town today?
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It's weird because Lidku was inspected as Cult Day 1.
I still don't trust Jim.
Can Cult!Lidku convert someone if they're also the vote for town today?
No.
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It's weird because Lidku was inspected as Cult Day 1.
Is this the only unclaimed inspect?
Do you think Jim did two actions on D1?
Bluarian/Fallacy couldn't have done it because they were literally gone, so I see your point. This D1 Lidku inspection was likely the SM or someone who wants to stay hidden...for some reason.
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I'm pretty sure Lidku is the equivalent of a Cult Researcher and submitted himself as the check. It would be a true claim that way. When that check happened, it was still very early in the game and before we decided to have town and cult work together, so it makes sense if he was trying to signal to the rest of the Cult what his alignment was.
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I'm pretty sure Lidku is the equivalent of a Cult Researcher and submitted himself as the check. It would be a true claim that way. When that check happened, it was still very early in the game and before we decided to have town and cult work together, so it makes sense if he was trying to signal to the rest of the Cult what his alignment was.
*true check result, sorry
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Can we... ask Lidku for answers? That seems like the obvious thing to do?
Look, if he's cult, then we just win when he's turned town, right?
We don't have to overcomplicate things.
Lidku.
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Lidku is a prime candidate for cult refusing to work with town for some reason.
I don’t really know how to work towards the end goal.
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Lidku
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This is going to waste the vote! :o
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This is going to waste the vote! :o
Technically, I agree. That's why I'm cult vote blocking Jim.
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It doesn't matter at this point. Too many people have voted for me already.
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I’ll unvote if someone gives me a proper reason, but you look like the most likely cult convert rn
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I'm not Cult at all. I'm a regular open-sourced man. 8)
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I'm not Cult at all. I'm a regular open-sourced man. 8)
Amazing.
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Since all the votes are in and there has clearly been plenty of time for last minute actions, I'll go ahead and wind up the day.
The frustrated developers decide to solve the faction problem by deleting Lidku's head and replacing it with a spare town head they found in the back that wasn't being used by anybody. Once that's finished, the town finally agree to upload Earth's source code to a gitlab server on Pluto and make it freely available to everyone. Earth undergoes an era of peaceful prosperity for millennia, until the nuclear DDOS wars.
In the meantime, the new unity of purpose makes the source of all the discord easier to pinpoint; FallacyofUrist, revealed as the serial molester, is banned from Earth and made to live on the moon in a hut with no cat outfits at all.
Town has won.
Jim Groovester was a Town Researcher.
Knightwing64 was a Town Factchecker.
BluarianKnight/FallacyofUrist were the Serial Molester (third-party).
Roden was a Town Sacrifice.
webadict was a Cult Heckler.
Lidku was a Cult Researcher.
NJW2000 was a Town Heckler.
ToonyMan was a Town Brainwasher.
Egan_BW was a Cult Factchecker.
Researchers:Every day, you can choose one target, including yourself. If you are town, your target's alignment will be announced in the main thread. If you are cult, your target's alignment will be announced to all cult members.
Factcheckers:Every day, you can choose one target, including yourself. If you are cult, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced in the main thread; your target will be said to be town if he is actually cult and vice versa. If you are town, your target's alignment will be wrongly announced to all cult members.
Sacrifices:Every day, you can choose one target other than yourself, and choose to either protect or interfere. (Either option can be chosen any number of times.)
When you choose to protect: If you are town, and your target is chosen to be recruited into the cult that day, you will be recruited instead. If you are cult, and your target is chosen to by lynched / converted to town that day, you will be converted instead.
When you choose to interfere: If you are town, and your target is a cultist, your target's cult recruitment vote (if any) will be redirected onto you. If you are cult, your target's daily lynch vote will be redirected onto you.
Hecklers:
Every day, you can choose one target other than yourself. If you are town, and your target is a cultist, your target will be unable to vote for cult recruitment that day. If you are cult, your target will be unable to vote for the daily town lynchconversion.
Brainwashers:Every day, you can choose one target, including yourself. If you are town, your target cannot be recruited by the cult today. If you are cult, your target cannot be lynchconverted to town the following day.
Once per game, you may choose to convert one target to your alignment. You regain this ability if your alignment changes.
The Serial Molester: You always appear as town to townies and as cult to cultists. You cannot be converted. You win when the day number exceeds the number of players.
Once per game, you can choose to swap the alignments of a number of targets equal to half the day number, rounded up.
Once per game, you can have your alignment announced as the alignment of your choice, to your choice of the main thread or all cult members.
Once per game, you can redirect the votes of a number of targets equal to half the day number, rounded up, to the target of your choice.
I haven't done anything all game because my ability stops people from voting, which is useless.
I found this funny because NJW2000 had used the same role successfully to block Lidku from using the cult conversion on day 2 when the lynch vote misfired. Roden would have been made cult otherwise; Lidku had voted for ToonyMan, but Roden used his Interfere on Lidku as well.
Overall, this seemed to work better than I feared. I think if I did it again I'd roll Factcheckers and Researchers into one role with the option to lie or tell the truth; this would've given Lidku a little more power to fight back against the inspect. Some kind of extra incentive for cult to try to win as cult would've helped too, although I was pleased that at least one out of three tried. Unfortunately, I can't really gauge the power of the SM since it never DID anything. Hecklers probably were a little underpowered and could have become a full roleblock; I actually planned that originally and then changed my mind so I wouldn't have to worry about actions interfering with each other. Maybe I'd make it make inspects give reversed results just for extra cruelty. Lastly... I don't know why Fallacy didn't bother to use any powers today to stop Lidku's vote; did you really think he was town? It should've been obvious Lidku was lying anyway: I'd never name a role "stand user"! I only have a vague idea that that comes from some anime, and I don't typically do references. As you can see, everybody had nice, dignified role names like "serial molester".
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lol
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It's true, Max would never name a role something dirty like Stand User.
Anyway...that was easy! Near perfect town win if we didn't vote Bluarian on D2.
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There's no reason for the town and cult to oppose each other in this setup since everyone's alignment is freely changeable. If you want the cult and town to actually fight each other, I think you need to introduce actual stake to getting a town or cult victory i.e. players who can't be converted or can't be easily converted, introduce incentives or penalties to players to avoid being converted too many times, and also probably less time.
Otherwise I don't currently understand the point of the setup if all players except the SM make the correct choice to agree to cooperate.
lol
why
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I didn't end up posting this during the game, but I was thinking that the hidden Cultist must have been some Super Cult that had to win with Cult. Which would imply there was also a Super Town that had to win with Town, we just happened to side with Town first which would have screwed over the Super Cultist who needed to continue to play to their faction's wincon.
I didn't mention this during the game because I felt it would just add more unnecessary elements.
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Noice
I’m so smart
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Man wouldn't that be something if one always scum player is replaced by another always scum player lmao
In the end, a role played by both always mafia Bluarian and always mafia Fallacy was in fact scum.
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lol
why
I initially didn't expect the Cult "team" to throw the game at all. Once webadict revealed he was Cult, I knew I was eventually doomed because I did in fact use Research on myself to alert the Cult team I was Cult, as to not have the Cult potentially wasting a vote on voting me; it being a rudimentary form of communication, since the Cultists could not communicate at all.
I don't know what the overall purpose of this game was at all, and you're correct that there was no incentive of the Town and Cult to fight each other. The entire Cult team just disappointedly threw the game to join Town, being arbitrarily focused on the SM (who was BluarianKnight and was very inactive to begin with) as a factor to mass-defect to Town. I just generally found it uninteresting to just beeline toward being Town, so I tried my best to remain Cult and try to convert others.
But since my critical error of using Research on myself in D1, not expecting the Cult to throw the game, I was suspected the whole game and people kept using their abilities on me.
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Yay! Long live open-source earth!
I might have gone for cult victory if cult were fighting for the 'good ending'. That would be more balanced, since cult victory is harder to achieve. But since town victory is the good ending, why would I throw fighting for microtransactions?
Too bad Blu was inactive. Fal probably replaced in too late to understand wtf was going on and try to turn things around.
I initially suspected Lidku as SM due to trying to argue that town and cult aren't on the same side. But I was eventually convinced that he was uncooperative cult thanks to the D1 inspect and the repeated "oh no, I'm town honest winkyface" posts.
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lol
why
I initially didn't expect the Cult "team" to throw the game at all. Once webadict revealed he was Cult, I knew I was eventually doomed because I did in fact use Research on myself to alert the Cult team I was Cult, as to not have the Cult potentially wasting a vote on voting me; it being a rudimentary form of communication, since the Cultists could not communicate at all.
I don't know what the overall purpose of this game was at all, and you're correct that there was no incentive of the Town and Cult to fight each other. The entire Cult team just disappointedly threw the game to join Town, being arbitrarily focused on the SM (who was BluarianKnight and was very inactive to begin with) as a factor to mass-defect to Town. I just generally found it uninteresting to just beeline toward being Town, so I tried my best to remain Cult and try to convert others.
But since my critical error of using Research on myself in D1, not expecting the Cult to throw the game, I was suspected the whole game and people kept using their abilities on me.
I mean... Why wouldn't I reveal? I'm not sure what you'd expect from me.
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There was NO benefit from me NOT revealing!
I don't understand!
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to win the game as cult
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Honestly, you might have had a better time of that if you'd participated in the informal vote of which victory to aim for on D1, rather than trying to lie to everybody and go for that ending all by yourself. The fact that cultists can 'defect' to open-source ending means that you could equally try to convince town to defect to closed-source ending. If the majority of people agreed that cult victory was desirable, then that's what we would have gone for.
Instead, your attempt to go for cult victory secretly meant that cult victory had no public support and was doomed. You could have changed that if you'd argued for it! You wouldn't even have to admit to being cult to do so, just claim that you're a town who wants cult victory or something if you'd prefer to keep the secret.
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Honestly, you might have had a better time of that if you'd participated in the informal vote of which victory to aim for on D1, rather than trying to lie to everybody and go for that ending all by yourself. The fact that cultists can 'defect' to open-source ending means that you could equally try to convince town to defect to closed-source ending. If the majority of people agreed that cult victory was desirable, then that's what we would have gone for.
Instead, your attempt to go for cult victory secretly meant that cult victory had no public support and was doomed. You could have changed that if you'd argued for it! You wouldn't even have to admit to being cult to do so, just claim that you're a town who wants cult victory or something if you'd prefer to keep the secret.
^Pretty much this. There's a bit of an issue here that you were sorta on your own, and not only that, but it was already far too late to be able to WIN as the Cult. The other unfortunate fact is that there were less Cult in general, making it harder to accomplish.
What incentive would staying Cult be to me? I'm not even sure what incentive COULD be made to stop me from trying to go for a Town win. That's the tough part that I see. I'd say that adding in a partner to the SM might make it better.
Alright, here's my idea that might make it harder to do:
Make an SM-ally role that is functionally the same as the Cult. Make it so if they're voted, the game is over for Town. Same for the other direction (Town SM-Ally). Maybe this means that Cult loses power by converting (Since the Cult can essentially be taken over by this rogue agent.)
Personally, a Cult SM-Ally sounds the most disastrous for the Town, but it'd be much better for the SM to be able to use any power in the game (Just one Action per Day, though). This lets the SM hide as any role, and allows the SM and the SM-Ally to functionally lockdown the Town if everyone claims at the wrong time.
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to win the game as cult
But what if you were converted before game end? Would you have played to the town wincon at that point?
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GG
I get Lidku's motives, it was spicier to try to go for a secret Cult win than to auto-win as town. There just wasn't much incentive or support for it to be successful unfortunately.
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GG
I get Lidku's motives, it was spicier to try to go for a secret Cult win than to auto-win as town. There just wasn't much incentive or support for it to be successful unfortunately.
Basically this, lol.
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to win the game as cult
But what if you were converted before game end? Would you have played to the town wincon at that point?
'
If I was deconverted earlier, than I would have fully cooperated with Town, because that would be my new team. But since I wasn't, I tried to make the Cult win for as long as I could.
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If I was deconverted earlier, than I would have fully cooperated with Town, because that would be my new team. But since I wasn't, I tried to make the Cult win for as long as I could.
In a game like this, you'd be justified in just doing your best to win no matter which team you're on. Normally that wouldn't be the case, but the two-way conversions and third party set up a different sort of situation.
Lastly... I don't know why Fallacy didn't bother to use any powers today to stop Lidku's vote; did you really think he was town? It should've been obvious Lidku was lying anyway: I'd never name a role "stand user"! I only have a vague idea that that comes from some anime, and I don't typically do references. As you can see, everybody had nice, dignified role names like "serial molester".
I figured he was cult, but I was basically praying there was one cult left since there wasn't much I could do. My declaration power wouldn't have stopped it, my vote change power could only swing two out of nine votes at the time, and I figured I had no hope of winning later on - this was Day 3 out of 10 - if I didn't preserve my alignment swap power. So it was a gamble, one that didn't pay off.
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Plus I figured I was roleblocked based on the public plan mentioned.
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Lol. I was so confused by Lidku at the start that I thought the cult could win just by having more members than town, in a bastard twist to get more conflict between cult and town.
I spent a while codedly threatening Town!Web and the cult, so they’d convert me first. I was way way way off.
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Max did say that it wasn't a bastard game at some point though. That alleviated a lot of paranoid for me, since the wincons being something other than stated in OP would be too bastard for this game.
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mfw I completely forget about a mafia game.
eugsrhtdn
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You snooze, you lose! Especially when you're the only person on your faction. :p
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Blue is always scum