I feel like another Beginner BYOR should maybe wait until there are some beginners.Ultimately, the point is that the signups remain open for a while so there's room for beginners to join. If someone else wants to run a game before this I don't mind. I haven't run a game in a while, though. Would be nice to get some practice in before FBYOR5 or this weird closed semi-bastard setup I've been thinking of comes around.
I will join this game to get it started.But you didn't post In - but whatever, I'll take it.
Say there's someone claiming to be a super-duper miller who appears to be scum in most ways and always appears to be targeting whoever was killed. Now what? How do you handle that?Probably by learning how to play the Day game instead of the Night game ;)
sanity pass.FoU: Lies.
So Fal... Am I a Miller again?sanity pass.FoU: Lies.
Answer unclear, ask again later.So Fal... Am I a Miller again?sanity pass.FoU: Lies.
I like trainsI like trans.
at least it's not refrigerators.
Is it a good sign that I'm starting to cackle menacingly?
I'm going to vote randomly at start of Day 1 even if there is a Night 0.
(0) Knightwing64:
(0) webadict:
(0) TricMagic:
(0) Lenglon:
(0) Roden:
(0) Shakerag:
(0) Egan_BW:
(0) Maximum Spin:
(0) Jim Groovester:
(9) Not Voting: Knightwing64, webadict, TricMagic, Lenglon, Roden, Shakerag, Egan_BW, Maximum Spin, Jim Groovester
5 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
I'm gonna assume that was you, Shakerag?
My new meds are kicking in so see you all tomorrow.
Anyway, I'll just sit back Today and let you guys discuss, since I don't want to negatively influence you guys and make you guys think I'm Town or something. That'd be too trustworthy!
I randomed. My action was a track.Will you claim who you tracked before they claim?
I'm bored.If you want less boring, why not vote Lenglon instead?
TricMagic: don't be boring.
RVS is more fun.Meh, I think Egan_BW is Town. What's your take on Shakerag?
Meh, I think Egan_BW is Town.
Weird, I assumed that the crude message I also got was from Shakerag.I'll claim since I don't see why not. What does it do? The PM didn't say what I'm buying, it just asks if I will or not.
Oh well. Someone stole an Ability from me. Whatever.
Anyway, I'll just sit back Today and let you guys discuss, since I don't want to negatively influence you guys and make you guys think I'm Town or something. That'd be too trustworthy!
I used an Ability last Night, and my targets (multiple, oooooo) can claim if they want. I don't recommend they buy, but not my problem if they do, lol.
Mod: kills the RVS stageWell, at this point I only have someone I DON'T want voted, not any information that tells me who to vote FOR.
Players: still make RVS votes
War never changes...
I'll claim since I don't see why not. What does it do? The PM didn't say what I'm buying, it just asks if I will or not.I won't answer that unless you wish to claim everything in perpetuity. You can buy or you can not buy, but I highly recommend you don't buy. I gain nothing by telling you, and you gain nothing by listening.
Also, Lenglon, dragons.I don't get it.
I'm bored.K. (https://youtu.be/CN7JSoGLaJE)
TricMagic: don't be boring.
Just a general PSA, my vote on Tric isn't completely random. only like 90% random.It's completely random Lenglon. Also, Fairies.Also, Lenglon, dragons.I don't get it.
Ok, rude. Do you expect me to spill everything as usual webadict? Or is it the fact I actually bought something?You bought something? LOL! Well, don't say I didn't warn you.
No response Webadict?14 minutes later, hot damn.
Say that all you want, but why a vote with absolutely no context?Why should I not vote you? Is there a particular reasoning that you think you should stay over anyone else?
Also, 14 to 2, my action is known to one. Fragile as it may be, it's rather positive.
I'm interested because I have an auto that should have told me who roleblocked me. It did not. After asking FoU some follow-up questions I came to two possibilities for how that could happen.I did visit TricMagic, so we'll see if he actually did buy or not. If not, then you got blocked by someone with a superrblock or something.
Option 1: the person who roleblocked me was not trackable or had some other way to disable my auto directly.
Option 2: you did something to roleblock anyone attempting to visit you (my attempted action was to visit you with a message), which because of how my auto works, would bypass it.
Yo. I used a nakedly beneficial power on Shakerag which'll give 'em an additional action on night 1.
If Shakey is mafia, this was a bad idea. If they're town, it was a good one. Don't you like games of chance?
Nothing else happened to me at night which I can tell.
ಠ_ಠI'm bored.K. (https://youtu.be/CN7JSoGLaJE)
TricMagic: don't be boring.
Shakerag, I'm not going to say anything else till day 2. All I know is I can prove I don't do the kill from my own action, which gives me a good day 2. That or I get roleblocked, either or.... Yeah, alright.
To webadict, that's also a good reason for me to stay, I think. Still got two more gifts to give. So my action is confirmable. Don't want the one I gave it to last night to speak up though, given it's a pretty good item.
Shakerag, I'm not going to say anything else till day 2. All I know is I can prove I don't do the kill from my own action, which gives me a good day 2. That or I get roleblocked, either or.... Yeah, alright.
To webadict, that's also a good reason for me to stay, I think. Still got two more gifts to give. So my action is confirmable. Don't want the one I gave it to last night to speak up though, given it's a pretty good item.
Shakerag.
Shakerag, I'm not going to say anything else till day 2. All I know is I can prove I don't do the kill from my own action, which gives me a good day 2. That or I get roleblocked, either or.
To webadict, that's also a good reason for me to stay, I think. Still got two more gifts to give. So my action is confirmable. Don't want the one I gave it to last night to speak up though, given it's a pretty good item.
Shakerag's role is currently Shakeragian.
You use red text to vote people. In this case, I am voting Shakerag.Shakerag, I'm not going to say anything else till day 2. All I know is I can prove I don't do the kill from my own action, which gives me a good day 2. That or I get roleblocked, either or.... Yeah, alright.
To webadict, that's also a good reason for me to stay, I think. Still got two more gifts to give. So my action is confirmable. Don't want the one I gave it to last night to speak up though, given it's a pretty good item.
Shakerag.
I'm not understanding this, explain?
To comment I would need to see it in action, get an explanation from you, or use some kind of action / ability inspect. I figure you'll claim it when it comes up.Shakerag's role is currently Shakeragian.
Curious that no one has commented on this.
Bet he sent in "The BYOR 3 Role Which Both Is And Is Not Shakeragian" or something.
To comment I would need to see it in action, get an explanation from you, or use some kind of action / ability inspect. I figure you'll claim it when it comes up.Shakerag's role is currently Shakeragian.
Curious that no one has commented on this.
Also, Maximum Spin is probably also your other Shakeragian role.
Cool story because I can definitely remove roles as well.Actually roles or abilities? I misspoke earlier.
First one, then the other.Cool story because I can definitely remove roles as well.Actually roles or abilities? I misspoke earlier.
First one, then the other.Cool story because I can definitely remove roles as well.Actually roles or abilities? I misspoke earlier.
Also, now for more fun stuff. I get 1-shot copies of all non-kills used on me. So not only can I use two actions tonight, but I can also give someone the ability to use 2 actions on N2. Although my one-shot copy I received has an interesting other effect that is making me consider saving it for N2.
Actually, wait.
omfg I just read that in more detail. Egan_BW is confirmed town to me. There is no way in hell scum would have this ability.
As this is going nowhere fast. A question to everyone, who would you daykill right now? (If you had the ability.) I pick Roden for being silent. (Not really, but eh.) More Lenglon for fishing things up rather than analyzing posts, though to be fair we are in RVS despite a Night 0. Focusing on mechanics alone won't work when there is no kill actions on that night.
As this is going nowhere fast. A question to everyone, who would you daykill right now? (If you had the ability.) I pick Roden for being silent. (Not really, but eh.) More Lenglon for fishing things up rather than analyzing posts, though to be fair we are in RVS despite a Night 0. Focusing on mechanics alone won't work when there is no kill actions on that night.Right now? either Rhoden or Max, and I'd not be willing to shoot shakerag, egan, web, or you. If you had me pick a third shot it'd be Jim I think.
Knightwing, that's perfectly fair. I figured I'd ask just in case, but I understand wanting to keep it private.
Do you mind explaining why you used a roleblock on the night when no kills can happen?
Okay, so you have given me no extra information because I already believe Egan_BW is Town.Haven't caught up yet, but I saw my name flagged, so I wanted to add: I have never submitted a role in that form and I never will, because I don't like cliches or doing things the way other people do them. :P
Also, Maximum Spin is probably also your other Shakeragian role.
I dislike this answer.Knightwing, that's perfectly fair. I figured I'd ask just in case, but I understand wanting to keep it private.
Do you mind explaining why you used a roleblock on the night when no kills can happen?
I wanted to use a ability becaus I didn’t get to before
map of claims:None of your business Lenglon.
Knightwing64 - received the option to Buy from webadict, chose not to. (Has not claimed their action)
webadict - got a crude message, used an ability on multiple targets, suggests they do not Buy.
TricMagic - received the option to Buy from webadict, chose to Buy. also gave someone an ability.
Lenglon - roleblocked, recieved no message, has an auto that should have told them who roleblocked them, and attempted action was a message to TricMagic.
Roden - received the option to Buy from webadict. (Has not claimed their action)
Shakerag - No Action, had a non-kill action performed on them, got a crude message
Egan_BW - gave shakerag an extra action on night 1, nothing else happened to them.
Maximum Spin - made a friend
Jim Groovester - tracked one of (knightwing, lenglon, roden, egan_bw, maximum spin) to one of (knightwing, webadict, tricmagic, maximum spin)
is this correct?
Unvote
Roden: What was your action last night?
None of your business Lenglon.Yeah, that's not how this works. here's the thing: I'm asking what was done in the past, not what your role is overall, and not what you can do in the future. The scum are the privliged few that already have most to all of the information they need. it IS correct to not share what you WILL be doing, especially if what you are doing gives you a chance to catch out lying scum. for a good example of this look at Jim's claim. What is scummy as hell is actively trying to make sure that people don't share information and to keep the town in the dark about everything. If you need to keep something to yourself that is perfectly fine, but pushing for town to not communicate anything at all or ask questions at all? that's straight-up-scum behavior.
Quick reminder to everyone that town keeps losing BYORs because of the focus on roles and mechanics. BYOR1 was an easy mafia stomp because both scum members openly role fished everyone and encouraged town to rely on mechanics to win. I recommend maybe not giving the scum team information they don't need to have, but that's just me.
As this is going nowhere fast. A question to everyone, who would you daykill right now? (If you had the ability.) I pick Roden for being silent. (Not really, but eh.) More Lenglon for fishing things up rather than analyzing posts, though to be fair we are in RVS despite a Night 0. Focusing on mechanics alone won't work when there is no kill actions on that night.What about my activity so far is me "being silent"? You say this every time I go to bed and activity picks up in the game, and you used this as an excuse to push me in Headhunters when you rolled Cult. You're gonna have to explain how this is a Tric-ism and not a bad faith push.
LmaoNone of your business Lenglon.Yeah, that's not how this works. here's the thing: I'm asking what was done in the past, not what your role is overall, and not what you can do in the future. The scum are the privliged few that already have most to all of the information they need. it IS correct to not share what you WILL be doing, especially if what you are doing gives you a chance to catch out lying scum. for a good example of this look at Jim's claim. What is scummy as hell is actively trying to make sure that people don't share information and to keep the town in the dark about everything. If you need to keep something to yourself that is perfectly fine, but pushing for town to not communicate anything at all or ask questions at all? that's straight-up-scum behavior.
Quick reminder to everyone that town keeps losing BYORs because of the focus on roles and mechanics. BYOR1 was an easy mafia stomp because both scum members openly role fished everyone and encouraged town to rely on mechanics to win. I recommend maybe not giving the scum team information they don't need to have, but that's just me.
My vote on you has now switched from basically RVS to pressure / lynch. enjoy.
For a real answer, possibly max speen, who hasn't posted much more than a very vague claim.It's going to stay vague. With one exception to follow. Town benefits from the situation remaining nonspecific. Besides, there's at least one person who knows my action already.
Tric-ism, really?You do have Tric-isms. It's best to just lean into it in my opinion.
My vote on you has now switched from basically RVS to pressure / lynch. enjoy.I don't like this statement. You did this same thing as town in BeBYOR2, so I can't firmly call it scummy, but it really rubs me the wrong way. "Absolutely nothing has meaningfully changed since I was already voting for you, but now I'm making an excuse to leave my vote in a place that was supposedly random before."
Apparently accepting it ended up giving me the Status Effect Released Evil. Which immediately got used to disable my auto.What does it do exactly, if you don't mind sharing?
How confident are you in a Lenglon lynch?I'm open to it, for the record. I'm not comfortable with that buddying I saw back in... here:
I'd not be willing to shoot shakerag, egan, web, or you. [...] Of course, if you let me kill as many as I want, I'd daykill everyone but Egan and Shake, and declare what i was doing when I did it. then since there'd probably be at least one kill-immune scum if that ability was in the game, there'd still be three town alive to vote them out.
Tric-ism, really? And was just wondering where you are. How confident are you in a Lenglon lynch?I was in bed, asleep.
Trying to investigate me mechanically would have done absolutely nothing if I was mafia. I actively resisted being labeled as mafia before. Now not so much.I disagree, but that's fine. that particular idea won't work now anyway, because reasons, and I have other suspects at this time anyway.
TricMagic's Ability reads, as summarized, as such:That's consistent with what he already claimed (although I guess he got confused about the targeting vs. being targeted). Granted, the claim does look like an excuse of the "gee, I guess someone framed me just like I said could happen" sort.
Alignment Inspects return Town. Anyone that targets you during the Night inspects as Mafia.
I believe the only vote on Tric ATM is Web's, I'm currently reviewing before putting mine on him to confirm.TricMagic's Ability reads, as summarized, as such:That's consistent with what he already claimed (although I guess he got confused about the targeting vs. being targeted). Granted, the claim does look like an excuse of the "gee, I guess someone framed me just like I said could happen" sort.
Alignment Inspects return Town. Anyone that targets you during the Night inspects as Mafia.
I'll also unvote and throw in for the "voting TricMagic in spirit" line since I'm not sure what the vote counts look like and don't want to... well, put in the effort to find out, bluntly.
TricMagic's Ability reads, as summarized, as such:Also, this is false. Anyone I visit will inspect as Mafia the Night I visit them. Why the misquote webadict?
Alignment Inspects return Town. Anyone that targets you during the Night inspects as Mafia.
To MS, it does absolutely nothing. Which makes me think it's a charge-type scenario. Webadict just triggered it immediately. Good for removing the first ability in your list I suppose. Not going to be taking that 'bargain' again though.Was mostly worried people knowing my true name could do something. Hence not coming out and saying the second part straight out. I already alluded to the first with my Fairies comment.
Trying to investigate me mechanically would have done absolutely nothing if I was mafia. I actively resisted being labeled as mafia before. Now not so much.
confirmed that at this time Web's vote is the only one on Tric.Technically, I have a couple things I can do when my Evils are bought (And also when they aren't, but that's a whole other thing.)
Well, there's two on them now.
I personally think Tric is claiming their role 100% accurately. I also think that it's an unclaimed miller with a ton of killing power, and is much more likely to be a godfather, as Web has said.
by the by, Web, if this is what buying from you does, I'd actually be willing to do it tomorrow if I get the chance.
confirmed that at this time Web's vote is the only one on Tric.Then this puts TricMagic at h-2. I guess we'll see what happens now.
Well, there's two on them now.
I'm not going to be voting Lenglon Today, so if you want to make me unvote you, pick a better target.To MS, it does absolutely nothing. Which makes me think it's a charge-type scenario. Webadict just triggered it immediately. Good for removing the first ability in your list I suppose. Not going to be taking that 'bargain' again though.Was mostly worried people knowing my true name could do something. Hence not coming out and saying the second part straight out. I already alluded to the first with my Fairies comment.
Trying to investigate me mechanically would have done absolutely nothing if I was mafia. I actively resisted being labeled as mafia before. Now not so much.
You sure you didn't send those messages webadict? And nope, will not do so. Deal with it, and any presents I give. I've got a very nice pair of Glass Slippers for you, or maybe a Glass Dress?
Joking at the moment, good dramatic timing at least. :P
You still have to ask why I accepted such a shady deal in the first place though. And who my partner is.
Nin. I'm not someone who investigates as mafia, so what? For all intents I could have used it if it came up to reveal info and shatter claims in half. At which point I'd likely be lynched, but eh. Mafia would be revealed by that. In ever other scenario, it's a plus.
Buy now Lenglon! You know you want to. Mostly cause I have good reason to see you flip.
... Well, to be fair, not a much of one given I'm almost certainly getting roleblocked tonight.
Can't really play games huh? (https://youtu.be/90gbgIXNhxU) Old classic inspiration, 3 gifts to give. And not much else I can do, all of them are cursed through and through. Oh well, time ticks forward, the Tricking hour falls to you.
(Can't actually get out of this mess, sadly. Way to go webadict. Hope you enjoy the flip.)
(0) Knightwing64:
(0) webadict:
(5) TricMagic: webadict, Lenglon, Maximum Spin, TricMagic, Roden
(0) Lenglon:
(0) Roden:
(0) Shakerag:
(0) Egan_BW:
(0) Maximum Spin:
(0) Jim Groovester:
(4) Not Voting: Knightwing64, Shakerag, Egan_BW, Jim Groovester
5 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
Fairy Godfather(town):
(Disabled, Auto) Mob Boss: Your fae connections in the police ensure alignment inspections on you always return Town, and anyone you visit will always alignment inspect as Mafia the Night you visit them.
(Night) Spinning Sand Into Glass [target]: You grant your target a boon - choose one of Glass Slippers, Glass Lens and Glass Dress. That ability becomes theirs. You may only grant each ability once.Quote-(Info) (Auto) Glass Slippers: Your steps are silent and graceful - you cannot be roleblocked, but track abilities used on you will only show you visiting nobody.(1-Shot, Night) Midnight [target]: Midnight strikes, and all Glass abilities your target possesses are destroyed. If they possessed only one Glass ability at the start of the Night this ability was used, you also shoot them with a poisonous dart, causing them to gain the “Poison” status. This ability counts as a kill action.
-(Info) (1-Shot, Night) Glass Lens [target]: You peer through a lens of truth - you learn your target’s alignment at the end of the next Day. While you possess this ability, the truth is bent, so investigative abilities you possess other than this one will fail when used. Fortunately, after this ability is used, it is destroyed.
-(Info) (1-Shot, Auto) Glass Dress: Your self is armored in soft folds of resilient glass - you can survive one kill used on you. However, the beauty of the gleaming glass forces all alignment inspection used on you to return a result of Town while you possess this ability.Quote-(Info) (Status) Poison: You will die at the end of this Day, after the execution! Your blood curdles in your veins. After you die to this effect this status is removed.
(0) Knightwing64:
(0) webadict:
(0) Lenglon:
(0) Roden:
(0) Shakerag:
(0) Egan_BW:
(0) Maximum Spin:
(0) Jim Groovester:
(8) Not Voting: Knightwing64, webadict, Lenglon, Roden, Shakerag, Egan_BW, Maximum Spin, Jim Groovester
5 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
So last night I was messaged by web, I was not roleblocked, I sent Shake a copy of my claim, and as far as I know nobody else interacted with me. Web, you got a thing from me last night that currently does nothing, just so you know where it came from and that it is not harmful.Got it.
Roden why did you hammer?I didn't realize Tric self-voted, I skim the left side of posts for votes. And tbh his self-vote was so fucking bad anyway that I would've hammered even if I saw it.
I'm aggravated at how Day 1 ended and I would also be complaining to TricMagic for voting himself if he survived.
I would also like to congratulate FallacyofUrist for finally devising a miller ability that gets its possessor lynched. Such a monkey's paw ability to inspect as town if you are already town.
You targeted me with an action last night?Roden why did you hammer?I didn't realize Tric self-voted, I skim the left side of posts for votes. And tbh his self-vote was so fucking bad anyway that I would've hammered even if I saw it.
I'm aggravated at how Day 1 ended and I would also be complaining to TricMagic for voting himself if he survived.
I would also like to congratulate FallacyofUrist for finally devising a miller ability that gets its possessor lynched. Such a monkey's paw ability to inspect as town if you are already town.
But besides his self vote and not telling anyone about how his fake Miller role worked, I hammered him so that no one spewed that they didn't have the Glass Lens after he let it slip that he gave it to someone. Tric sent it to me, and my best chance of using it successfully would be if scum had zero info on who could have it.
I targeted Lenglon with it, I'll know their alignment at the end of the Day.
I didn't realize Tric self-voted, I skim the left side of posts for votes.You didn't know he voted
And tbh his self-vote was so fucking bad anyway that I would've hammered even if I saw it.You would've hammered anyway.
But besides his self vote and not telling anyone about how his fake Miller role worked, I hammered him so that no one spewed that they didn't have the Glass Lens after he let it slip that he gave it to someone.You hammered so that no one spewed.
he let it slip that he gave it to someone.He gave you a lens and you... hammered him?
Regardless, I can't be blocked at this point since I already sent in the action, all scum can do is kill me to stop the results. I have a workaround though, if necessary.Would you like to fullclaim for us?
EDIT: Yeah I didn't get anything. I know it wasn't blocked, so it has to be a Redirect.
*voted, not hammered in the third quoteI didn't realize Tric self-voted, I skim the left side of posts for votes.You didn't know he votedAnd tbh his self-vote was so fucking bad anyway that I would've hammered even if I saw it.You would've hammered anyway.But besides his self vote and not telling anyone about how his fake Miller role worked, I hammered him so that no one spewed that they didn't have the Glass Lens after he let it slip that he gave it to someone.You hammered so that no one spewed.he let it slip that he gave it to someone.He gave you a lens and you... hammered him?
Does, like, any of that actually compute?
Full claim? No, I don't I'll give info to scum they don't need. You already know one of my abilities anyway.Regardless, I can't be blocked at this point since I already sent in the action, all scum can do is kill me to stop the results. I have a workaround though, if necessary.Would you like to fullclaim for us?
EDIT: Yeah I didn't get anything. I know it wasn't blocked, so it has to be a Redirect.
Fixed a typoFull claim? No, I don't think I'll give info to scum they don't need. You already know one of my abilities anyway.Regardless, I can't be blocked at this point since I already sent in the action, all scum can do is kill me to stop the results. I have a workaround though, if necessary.Would you like to fullclaim for us?
EDIT: Yeah I didn't get anything. I know it wasn't blocked, so it has to be a Redirect.
*voted, not hammered in the third quoteOkay, hm, maybe I should help phrase it, because you're going to get attacked over this, so if you can't explain it thoroughly and prove yourself sufficiently Town, how can we trust you?
Either way I don't see how you don't get it. Unless someone wants to counter claim the Lens, I'm confirmed to be telling the truth.
Then, what would you be willing to claim to? Are you the one that stole my Ability N0?Full claim? No, I don't I'll give info to scum they don't need. You already know one of my abilities anyway.Regardless, I can't be blocked at this point since I already sent in the action, all scum can do is kill me to stop the results. I have a workaround though, if necessary.Would you like to fullclaim for us?
EDIT: Yeah I didn't get anything. I know it wasn't blocked, so it has to be a Redirect.
Also, voting someone to stop people from spewing... Uh... That doesn't make sense, no?*voted, not hammered in the third quoteI didn't realize Tric self-voted, I skim the left side of posts for votes.You didn't know he votedAnd tbh his self-vote was so fucking bad anyway that I would've hammered even if I saw it.You would've hammered anyway.But besides his self vote and not telling anyone about how his fake Miller role worked, I hammered him so that no one spewed that they didn't have the Glass Lens after he let it slip that he gave it to someone.You hammered so that no one spewed.he let it slip that he gave it to someone.He gave you a lens and you... hammered him?
Does, like, any of that actually compute?
Either way I don't see how you don't get it. Unless someone wants to counter claim the Lens, I'm confirmed to be telling the truth.
So here's the thing, I know when people visit me. I was not visited by you Roden. Explain yourself.
And, I think, I can confirm that Roden did not use a kill action last night.I mean, I already know who the killer was, but that's not the point of this interrogation.
So last night I was messaged by web, I was not roleblocked, I sent Shake a copy of my claim, and as far as I know nobody else interacted with me. Web, you got a thing from me last night that currently does nothing, just so you know where it came from and that it is not harmful.
I did not, which is to be expected because of order of operations. I would have required setup to get information.
I am scheming with Lenglon
I am scheming with webadict
I am scheming with Lenglon and webadict
I am repeatedly being told 'fuck you'
I hammered TricMagic for dubious reasons
claims
Based on abilities I've seen, I'm inclined to lean town on Egan and Roden then.
I voted Tric because you, in big bold text, accused him of being a Godfather and said you wouldn't move your vote. Tric also used the same shitty meta read he used last time he was scum to try to pressure me, as well as claiming to be a gift giver which has been scum in the past, especially in Fallacy games. Besides that, we both know Tric would sooner or later spew who he gave the Lens to anyway because he can't stop talking about his role, and if not him then everyone else by proxy of admitting they didn't have it. So let's stop pretending I did a scummy lolhammer and come back to reality here.*voted, not hammered in the third quoteOkay, hm, maybe I should help phrase it, because you're going to get attacked over this, so if you can't explain it thoroughly and prove yourself sufficiently Town, how can we trust you?
Either way I don't see how you don't get it. Unless someone wants to counter claim the Lens, I'm confirmed to be telling the truth.
I don't think you getting the Lens is the issue. The real concern is that you DID hammer TricMagic, and now there's the potential for you to be lying about using the Lens. So, you may not have been roleblocked (to your knowledge), but we can't verify who you targeted.Then, what would you be willing to claim to? Are you the one that stole my Ability N0?Full claim? No, I don't I'll give info to scum they don't need. You already know one of my abilities anyway.Regardless, I can't be blocked at this point since I already sent in the action, all scum can do is kill me to stop the results. I have a workaround though, if necessary.Would you like to fullclaim for us?
EDIT: Yeah I didn't get anything. I know it wasn't blocked, so it has to be a Redirect.
FTR, an unclaimed Redirector is in the game. I targeted Tric last night, but given the context of some claimed stuff I'm pretty sure I got sent to Web instead. Unless Web is a action-specific Lightning Rod or Tric is a reflexive Redirector I guess.
So here's the thing, I know when people visit me. I was not visited by you Roden. Explain yourself.
For the record, I redirected Roden to myself.
Processing all the shit I got sent overnight.
And, I think, I can confirm that Roden did not use a kill action last night.
I tracked Roden to Shakerag. Also on Night 0 I tracked Roden to webadict and I was going to claim this as soon as Roden made his claim but I was preempted by the TricMagic quick lynch.This should clear up your other issues Web.
Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssteeeeeeeeeeeeeen, deep breath, okay? You know my questions are completely justified. You're digging yourself a hole bigger than Texas, and more likely to kill you, too.I voted Tric because you, in big bold text, accused him of being a Godfather and said you wouldn't move your vote. Tric also used the same shitty meta read he used last time he was scum to try to pressure me, as well as claiming to be a gift giver which has been scum in the past, especially in Fallacy games. Besides that, we both know Tric would sooner or later spew who he gave the Lens to anyway because he can't stop talking about his role, and if not him then everyone else by proxy of admitting they didn't have it. So let's stop pretending I did a scummy lolhammer and come back to reality here.*voted, not hammered in the third quoteOkay, hm, maybe I should help phrase it, because you're going to get attacked over this, so if you can't explain it thoroughly and prove yourself sufficiently Town, how can we trust you?
Either way I don't see how you don't get it. Unless someone wants to counter claim the Lens, I'm confirmed to be telling the truth.
I don't think you getting the Lens is the issue. The real concern is that you DID hammer TricMagic, and now there's the potential for you to be lying about using the Lens. So, you may not have been roleblocked (to your knowledge), but we can't verify who you targeted.Then, what would you be willing to claim to? Are you the one that stole my Ability N0?Full claim? No, I don't I'll give info to scum they don't need. You already know one of my abilities anyway.Regardless, I can't be blocked at this point since I already sent in the action, all scum can do is kill me to stop the results. I have a workaround though, if necessary.Would you like to fullclaim for us?
EDIT: Yeah I didn't get anything. I know it wasn't blocked, so it has to be a Redirect.
Yes, I did steal from you on N0 and softed that I did yesterday. I targeted Tric though and was very confused at Day start, because I somehow gained two abilities and one of them actually was from Tric. I thought he started with the Lens and "something that has to do with evil", but then he said something that mentioned the "evil" ability and that it was an interaction that dealt with your role.FTR, an unclaimed Redirector is in the game. I targeted Tric last night, but given the context of some claimed stuff I'm pretty sure I got sent to Web instead. Unless Web is a action-specific Lightning Rod or Tric is a reflexive Redirector I guess.
The thing is Max's claimed action can be verified by the target. Egan, did you get anything from Max?This is true, but I trust Maximum Spin's ability to read Knightwing, and I think he's grossly misread Knightwing here.
Also, I have reason to think many people can multi-action at night.
Jim sucks
Jim was going to hammer
Jim doesn't have any verifiable actions.
I'm not super interested in this game. I get bored shitless if all we're doing is discussing role results.What is your opinion of the D1 dispute between me and Roden?
I'm not super interested in this game. I get bored shitless if all we're doing is discussing role results.What is your opinion of the D1 dispute between me and Roden?
What is your opinion of Max?
What is your opinion of Shakerag?
and finally, Are you the person telling Shakerag "fuck you" repeatedly?
Tracks can catch fakeclaims which is why I waited for my target to claim first.And now you cannot track. This does seem quite convenient for you.
I left a hint on Day 1 about my claim to prove I wasn't just making shit up but day 2 moved too fast for me to bring it up before it was irrelevant.
Anyways, I'll stop tracking targets now since I can't anymore anyway. I'll be sure to use my other abilities that also don't immediately prove that I acted instead. Except for the one that is verifiable which I will not use until later.
On Night 0 I randomed and ended up with Roden.You said you were going to hammer. This would have been before Roden justified it. Roden's Hammer was stupid, but not necessarily suspicious UNTIL he justified it poorly on Day 2. So, are you admitting that you hammering would've also been suspicious?
On Night 1 I really didn't like Roden hammering, so I tracked him to see what he got up to.
I'll point out that Roden was not an unpopular choice for night actions since at least Shakerag targeted him in addition to me.Heh. If only you saw what I wrote to Roden and Lenglon, you'd understand. Personally, I think Shakerag is a lesser target to deal with, since he's actually been quite cooperative, and he's offered information before it was verified, making him far more trustworthy. I'd also like to point out that pointing at someone else for doing something you did is not a defense.
I pompously declare that you still suck Jim
Basically, I don't see why Max thought Jim was Town on D1 because there were several better targets.That is a good question. Max, why was Jim the person you gave your gift to?
That is a good question. Max, why was Jim the person you gave your gift to?Jim was the only option. I do think Jim is town and have for some time, but I also couldn't have given the gift to anyone else under the present conditions (with one exception I didn't think was a good idea and now know wouldn't have worked assuming everyone's telling the truth).
Web, do you mind explaining why it's max / jim and why of the two you want max lynched first?I rejected his offer yesterday when Tric claimed accepting caused him to gain a negative passive. Plus the ability I stole from Web heavily implies that he has multiple ways to manipulate other people's actions if they accept his offer. I'm guessing he's literally the Devil given the flavor context.
Also, I'm leaning towards the "don't buy" option but since Roden and I need to decide together to get things done am still holding off. Roden do you want me to buy to give web info about me (and are you willing to do the same) or would you prefer web stay in stage 1 of his role and retain night options?
I didn't get anything from Web last night, only the night before. All he told me then was that I shouldn't buy but that he can't stop me if I choose to.Uh, excuse me?
Web, your message to me last night was explicitly addressed to both me and Roden, and even had a section directed to Roden specifically, can you explain what happened here?I cannot explain. I rechecked to make sure I sent it to both you and Roden, and that is what I did.
Ur not gonna comment about the roleblock? Mr: giftsenderI wasn't roleblocked, friendo. I admit the only person who can confirm that is Jim, but it would be pretty silly for us to be doing this as a scumteam.
Actually, Maximum Spin can confirm they got my message:Knightwing. Totally thought that was weird.
I put a name down twice, whose was it?
Yeah, making mistakes on purpose to verify my message was... uh... on purpose!Actually, Maximum Spin can confirm they got my message:Knightwing. Totally thought that was weird.
I put a name down twice, whose was it?
But, uh, Roden can't possibly have been bussed with me? Because Jim and Shakerag targeted him?? I definitely didn't get redirected to Shakerag. In fact, I just checked, Jim shared his track result with me before Shakerag claimed the redirection in the thread, so he didn't fake it.
@FoU: If an Action self-targets through redirection or bussing, does it fail if it could not normally self-target? What happens to multiple target Actions? Can someone steal messages?By default, if an action is redirected or bussed to its own user, it still takes effect. Unless specified otherwise in the redirection ability, if a multiple target action is redirected, one of the intended targets will be changed, selected at random, though specific implementations of redirection could do things differently. A bus, by contrast, would change whichever target or targets landed on a bussed player while leaving the targets not aimed at a bussed player alone. I'd be open to a discussion about this after the game, but it's what I'm working with for now, for a lack of better ideas.
What are the chances of me being mafia directly after
Also, Egan, Where are you?
Egan, were you roleblocked last night?
Max, would you want one of your Abilities disabled and learned by me?Not really. I need my abilities to do my role thing. It would inconvenience Jim, anyway.
It is different for roleblocks.Egan, were you roleblocked last night?Action failed, targeting Roden. Because the hammer made me feel uncomfortable with them.
"Action failed" was the exact wording, I dunno if it's different for roleblocks.
@FoU: what happens if a roleblock is redirected to the user of the roleblock?The user of the roleblock would be roleblocked. The roleblock cannot block itself, as it would already have resolved, but if the user used additional actions that night, they could be prevented by the block.
@FoU: If they had no other actions for the night, would they have been notified that they were roleblocked, or that their roleblock succeeded?Both. They did perform their action, and the interference that came about from that action occurred after the action resolved.
So web, do you really think this is town Knightwing? You don't get the impression that he isn't trying very hard? I'll weight your opinion pretty highly on this.Tough call... I mean, I just don't see Knightwing claiming a roleblock like this as scum. It seems very silly. We could vote him out, but I'm not entirely sure. If he didn't roleblock someone, then either he's lying or the Mafia didn't kill. If he did roleblock someone, then the Mafia aren't going to claim it.
Well, either I roleblocked max or I got redirected and didn’t get told about itdid you get a "your action was successful" type of message?
Also Max get off me, you try to get me voted out every game, just because I touch grass doesn’t mean I’m mafia
Well, either I roleblocked max or I got redirected and didn’t get told about itUh, to be fair, in several of those games, you are, in fact, Mafia.
Also Max get off me, you try to get me voted out every game, just because I touch grass doesn’t mean I’m mafia
Also what was the message that was intended for me? It seems important enough that Lenglon wanted to cooperate with me today despite our argument yesterday.Don't overestimate how important our argument was yesterday. It was mostly arguing theory, and meant about as much as any other semi-random D1 push. There's a reason I completely dropped it when Tric's godfather-nature got highlighted and I haven't bothered picking it back up, to me it didn't actually matter that much. The most valuable thing it was doing was creating a talking point for later. I do find it interesting that you weren't at all interested in starting it back up yourself though. Was it as unimportant to you as it was to me?
Also Web, is there any particular reason why you're downplaying the ability I stole as "manipulate actions randomly"? It specifically says you can remove the "evil" passive but then randomize who they target that night. It's also a free action, so it can even be done at night along with another action, can't be blocked, and it can be assumed that the player affected doesn't know if it happens. Like yes it's random but it's not just random. I think an undetectable randomized Redirect that can't be traced back to the user is pretty manipulative?Well, let's start at the beginning:
Also what was the message that was intended for me? It seems important enough that Lenglon wanted to cooperate with me today despite our argument yesterday.It mostly called you a moron for wasting time Yesterday (as well as Today) and Hammering, and that if you continued to go after Lenglon, I'd be really, really mad. I had assumed you had gotten that message specifically because you had stopped, but no.
I thought I had a Cop check on you so I figured it didn't matter anymore. Obviously that isn't the case anymore, but I thought your reaction to being told you got Cop checked was townie. I also think scum!you could've easily come out swinging for my head today and not look scummy for it, not doing so feels anti-opportunistic.Also what was the message that was intended for me? It seems important enough that Lenglon wanted to cooperate with me today despite our argument yesterday.Don't overestimate how important our argument was yesterday. It was mostly arguing theory, and meant about as much as any other semi-random D1 push. There's a reason I completely dropped it when Tric's godfather-nature got highlighted and I haven't bothered picking it back up, to me it didn't actually matter that much. The most valuable thing it was doing was creating a talking point for later. I do find it interesting that you weren't at all interested in starting it back up yourself though. Was it as unimportant to you as it was to me?
Web you can stop trying to throw your weight around, thanks. No one's executing the confirmed Cop claim that was cleared from committing a kill.Sorry, illiterate Cops are useless to me. #ACAB
@FoU: Can a redirect be roleblocked, or does the redirect act faster than the roleblock can block it?If a roleblocker blocked a redirector, the redirector would be blocked.
(0) Knightwing64:
(0) webadict:
(0) Lenglon:
(1) Roden: webadict
(0) Shakerag:
(0) Egan_BW:
(0) Maximum Spin:
(0) Jim Groovester:
(7) Not Voting: Knightwing64, Lenglon, Roden, Shakerag, Egan_BW, Maximum Spin, Jim Groovester
5 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
Web you can stop trying to throw your weight around, thanks. No one's executing the confirmed Cop claim that was cleared from committing a kill.Wow, look at me, how could I ever counter that one--it's still possible that you were roleblocked--oh wow, that was easy.
Well, I'm bored, clueless, and habitually unassertive. We're mostly in action claiming land which I can't wrap my head around or participate in much.Why shouldn't we vote you out?
...
So... Roden got roleblocked?
...
So... Roden got roleblocked?
I'm super duper drunk af right now but Roden did not get roleblocked.
Well, there goes that ability. Thank's Webadict.Web can you explain how Tric came to the conclusion that the auto was a negative status effect if it actually isn't?
Apparently accepting it ended up giving me the Status Effect Released Evil. Which immediately got used to disable my auto. Decent news at least, since it would have painted anyone I targeted as mafia for that night. But it also made me immune to framejobs.
... All in all, a positive so long as one doesn't trust results blindly. But also a note there may be frames here.
I use d pmyh power...
So... Roden got roleblocked?
I'm super duper drunk af right now but Roden did not get roleblocked.
you dumb slut I said I redirected Roden to me on N1.
I was literally seen visiting my someone, I can't be roleblockedWeb you can stop trying to throw your weight around, thanks. No one's executing the confirmed Cop claim that was cleared from committing a kill.Wow, look at me, how could I ever counter that one--it's still possible that you were roleblocked--oh wow, that was easy.
In your own mind, you're cleared because you're not factoring in enough external factors that other people have to do for you, and the unfortunate part about that is that it means you're probably Town. I'd unvote you because I know you're not scum, but I frankly don't care if you're executed because you're actually potentially more useful dead than alive, which is a whole thing.
Literally, nearly everything you have done is astoundingly wrong, and you still haven't admitted it. That's all I really want, petty as that is.
Personally, I'm in favor of voting No Execution, since we're still at an even number, but, let's say "for the lulz" we could always just vote out Roden anyway!~ It'd probably be wrong, but... in the end, wouldn't it be so right?Well, I'm bored, clueless, and habitually unassertive. We're mostly in action claiming land which I can't wrap my head around or participate in much.Why shouldn't we vote you out?
I thought your reaction to being told you got Cop checked was townie.My reaction to being told I was cop checked was to tell you that I hadn't been cop checked (and if it said scum then it was clearly redirected to someone that's not me). In what world would Scum!Lenglon do anything different? Why didn't you push me for that?
Web you can stop trying to throw your weight around, thanks. No one's executing the confirmed Cop claim that was cleared from committing a kill.What? That isn't.... Roden, you aren't confirmed, you didn't claim cop (instead claiming to have been gifted a 1-shot alignment inspect), and you aren't cleared from a kill when for all we know the scum chose to no-kill.
Web I'd love for you to explain the pro town beneficial reason for killing the confirmed Cop before they actually receive results
If you're scum who got caught by a Cop check, I don't think your first reaction isn't to lie about a fake ability that let's you know if you were visited. That's too quick of a response to be fabricated.I thought your reaction to being told you got Cop checked was townie.My reaction to being told I was cop checked was to tell you that I hadn't been cop checked (and if it said scum then it was clearly redirected to someone that's not me). In what world would Scum!Lenglon do anything different? Why didn't you push me for that?
Wow this is a weird argument to have.Web you can stop trying to throw your weight around, thanks. No one's executing the confirmed Cop claim that was cleared from committing a kill.What? That isn't.... Roden, you aren't confirmed, you didn't claim cop (instead claiming to have been gifted a 1-shot alignment inspect), and you aren't cleared from a kill when for all we know the scum chose to no-kill.
Tric claimed that he gave the Cop check to someone, and no one counter claimed me when I said I had it.Web I'd love for you to explain the pro town beneficial reason for killing the confirmed Cop before they actually receive results
hold on when ddii we have a confirned cop? I don't remembner that
Tric claimed that he gave the Cop check to someone, and no one counter claimed me when I said I had it.Web I'd love for you to explain the pro town beneficial reason for killing the confirmed Cop before they actually receive results
hold on when ddii we have a confirned cop? I don't remembner that
Tric claimed that he gave the Cop check to someone, and no one counter claimed me when I said I had it.Web I'd love for you to explain the pro town beneficial reason for killing the confirmed Cop before they actually receive results
hold on when ddii we have a confirned cop? I don't remembner that
Tric claimed that he gave the Cop check to someone, and no one counter claimed me wWeb I'd love for you to explain the pro town beneficial reason for killing the confirmed Cop before they actually receive results
hold on when ddii we have a confirned cop? I don't remembner that
So you used the cop avilith? hen I said I had it.
Tric claimed that he gave the Cop check to someone, and no one counter claimed me when I said I had it.Web I'd love for you to explain the pro town beneficial reason for killing the confirmed Cop before they actually receive results
hold on when ddii we have a confirned cop? I don't remembner that
If you're scum who got caught by a Cop check, I don't think your first reaction isn't to lie about a fake ability that let's you know if you were visited. That's too quick of a response to be fabricated.Fair.
How am I not cleared from the kill when Shake redirected me to him and stated he would know if someone tried to kill him? And if I'm scum why do I waste my action trying to target you with the Cop check instead of doing something that isn't against a scum wincon?I really don't want to get into WIFOM right now. All it would require would be for you to be doing any non-kill action. There's two scum, so every night one of them will be doing a non-kill action. and on a night where they intentionally no-kill, both of them would be doing a non-kill action. Maybe you were changing if you were Shakeragian or something like that, I dunno. Confirmed is a very strong term, and you haven't earned it.
Drunkrag, you're even more confused than usual.
Drunkrag, you're even more confused than usual.
HE DIDN'T.Well, there goes that ability. Thank's Webadict.Web can you explain how Tric came to the conclusion that the auto was a negative status effect if it actually isn't?
Apparently accepting it ended up giving me the Status Effect Released Evil. Which immediately got used to disable my auto. Decent news at least, since it would have painted anyone I targeted as mafia for that night. But it also made me immune to framejobs.
... All in all, a positive so long as one doesn't trust results blindly. But also a note there may be frames here.
Max, do you think Egan is town? Why?I have basically no read on him because he hasn't been very active. I don't think he's usually the type to just lurk as scum, but I guess I thought that back in, uh, Jade Court (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.0) and it turned out he was. I definitely wouldn't rule it out.
That's it? Nothing more in-depth?I... can't really get that in-depth about Egan, both specifically, because his playstyle is really bland and inoffensive, and because he hasn't posted very much at all. It's not like Knightwing where shitposting is strongly alignment-indicative; in Egan's case, the fact that, eg, one of his posts was just "!" (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180146.msg8397849#msg8397849) could go either way. Also, you asked if I think he was town, and I think I was clear that the answer is "no". I can't say that I specifically think he's scum either, though.
Thank you. Your opinion mostly mirrors mine, by the by.I'd be interested to hear about any divergence?
Hey max, Web has proposed No-Lynching today at least once, I think twice (didn't go back to check). And literally nobody has engaged with that in any way whatsoever. What do you think about the No-Lynch option, and what do you think about that lack of engagement with the proposition?Right, I kind of glossed past that while I was hurrying to explain the neighbor thing. I'm not necessarily against no-lynches in general, but I think this is still a solvable state. If anything, I worry no-lynching may be an opportunity to let the night results get even more chaotic next time, if the mafia no-kill again.
I have a reasonable working theory for why Egan / Knightwing is the scumteam, but it has enough flaws in it that I'd prefer to not put it forward right now, especially since doing so would involve rolefishing Roden.I could see it.
3) is willing to give you the gift you were given while being scum.(I will say, in the interest of at least slightly fuller disclosure, that I didn't know ahead of time what he was going to get. He told me something about it but I'll let him decide whether to say what.)
I have a theory that fits.Huh, that seems to make sense. Pretty wild. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it before.
What about a triple switch here:
Anything targeting Roden -> Lenglon.
Anything targeting Lenglon -> Maximum Spin.
Anything targeting Maximum Spin -> Roden.
This fits everything.
Jim Groovester targets Roden -> Jim Groovester targets Lenglon. Lenglon targeted Shakerag last Night, so that fits.
Shakerag targets Roden -> Shakerag targets Lenglon. No change.
Knightwing targeted Maximum Spin -> Knightwing roleblocked Roden.
I targeted Roden and Lenglon -> I targeted Lenglon and Maximum Spin. (A double swap!!!)
However, it's very likely that the scumteam is Shakerag/Roden in this example, which makes a lot of sense.... why? I'm a little distracted so I might be missing something, and the pairing is definitely plausible, but I'm not seeing why them specifically.
Yo. I used a nakedly beneficial power on Shakerag which'll give 'em an additional action on night 1.Shakerag had two Abilities last Night but only claimed one :D
Huh, that seems to make sense. Pretty wild. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it before.I had an Ability like that written in my "Idea Log", so it helps that I HAVE seen it before.
Doesn't work. I was ONLY visited by web and maybe shake. Egan would have targeted me. They didnt. Also, egans action wouldnt have failed on me.Shakerag was the one that used the triple bus, AND something that caused Egan to fail.
I lurk as scum for a different reason, which is that it stresses me out. In this case, I just... really don't care.What happens if your target uses a 1-shot?
Replace?
The action I used which failed would have made any action Roden used unavailable on the following night.
The action I used on Shakerag N0 which made him see me as town has a different effect under certain (predictable) conditions, which would make it INSTEAD confirm one's own alignment to the target while protecting the target from kills and disables. Which would generally not be very helpful to scum.
Web, read Egan's claimed action, then re-,read glass lens from tric's flip. Egan did target Roden.
The action I used which failed would have made any action Roden used unavailable on the following night.
-(Info) (1-Shot, Night) Glass Lens [target]: You peer through a lens of truth - you learn your target’s alignment at the end of the next Day. While you possess this ability, the truth is bent, so investigative abilities you possess other than this one will fail when used. Fortunately, after this ability is used, it is destroyed.Nothing is inconsistent, would you like to try again?
Web, read Egan's claimed action, then re-,read glass lens from tric's flip. Egan did target Roden.Hold on, Glass Lens says it makes investigative abilities fail, and Egan's claimed action wasn't investigative? Unless I missed something -- no, webadict just pointed out the same thing. I'll post this anyway just for the public record.
Web, re-read your own quote.That's a really weird and likely incorrect interpretation of how that would work. I mean, just because the Ability is destroyed doesn't mean anything. Roden would still be unable to use that Ability, especially if it was destroyed. So, I'm gonna say that there's an entirely other reason that Egan's ability failed, so you can promptly suck a lemon. It works.
When this ability is used, it is destroyed.
Egan's action was invalid because it targeted a destroyed action.
And not only that, it's only investigative Abilities that RODEN possesses.Web, read Egan's claimed action, then re-,read glass lens from tric's flip. Egan did target Roden.Hold on, Glass Lens says it makes investigative abilities fail, and Egan's claimed action wasn't investigative? Unless I missed something -- no, webadict just pointed out the same thing. I'll post this anyway just for the public record.
Plus, the interpretation stands: Shakerag didn't claim two Actions.That part is fine. I just needed to point out how Egan was not roleblocked and did not target me, at least one of which should have happened in your theory.
Shakerag had two Actions last Night, and without knowing his role entirely, there's no way to know for sure that Egan_BW wasn't hit by something that Shakerag did. Maybe he could cause someone that targeted him the previous Night to fail? I can't say, but I can confirm thatPlus, the interpretation stands: Shakerag didn't claim two Actions.That part is fine. I just needed to point out how Egan was not roleblocked and did not target me, at least one of which should have happened in your theory.
A simpler explanation web is you were hit by a target randomizer,Who would've done this in your scenario? Isn't Egan the only one with a claim outstanding? Or do you think there are two double-acting scum? I don't quite believe that.
I have reason to believe that at least one scum can double-action. I don't find it a stretch to think both can.It seems way too overpowered for a beginner game. Certainly, if that's the case, I would feel that my own role is too weak. I can't do anything just for myself.
A simpler explanation web is you were hit by a target randomizer, and knightwing hit double-actioning scum, of which the non-mafiakill was unblockable. Which is why I asked my question to Jim of how much he trusts Max.If Max is scum, then Jim is scum. There are no other likely pairs. Max and Jim are connected too heavily through the entire game. I cannot make a viable pair of anyone except those two.
Web, do you want me to vote Shakerag or Roden? Let's make a deal.A deal you say? Sure. I'm willing to target whoever you want (I have only my selling Action as an active choice, but I do have one Auto ability that... Well, it's not a big deal what it does yet), and we can both vote Roden or Shakerag, your choice (I'm technically equally sure on both.) I'm willing to not execute, but I would like to force Roden to claim, since he's refused so far, and he immediately didn't buy on Day 1 when he found out Tric had an Ability disabled, so Roden sounds like his role is strong. Shakerag also hasn't claimed, but I believe he was the one that triple bussed.
I have reason to believe that at least one scum can double-action. I don't find it a stretch to think both can.I agree. You know who had two Actions last Night? Shakerag.
A deal you say? Sure. I'm willing to target whoever you want (I have only my selling Action as an active choice, but I do have one Auto ability that... Well, it's not a big deal what it does yet), and we can both vote Roden or Shakerag, your choice (I'm technically equally sure on both.) I'm willing to not execute, but I would like to force Roden to claim, since he's refused so far, and he immediately didn't buy on Day 1 when he found out Tric had an Ability disabled, so Roden sounds like his role is strong. Shakerag also hasn't claimed, but I believe he was the one that triple bussed.Between the two, Shakerag seems more dangerous. I... think you should target Jim, since your action doesn't seem harmful, and visiting Jim triggers a good thing in my role. I want to get his consent on that, though.
I want to get his consent on that, though.He says he's okay with it.
Between the two, Shakerag seems more dangerous.Uh, sorry to triple-post (still not beating Drunkerag), but I should've said Shakerag there.
Shake, you said you did two things last night, one was redirect Roden. What was the second?
Shakerag probably is a roleblocker in his own right. Blocking Egan_BW who is a potential doctor, makes complete sense, since Shakerag learned his Ability.
Egan didn't mention this.Shake, you said you did two things last night, one was redirect Roden. What was the second?
Oh, I used the "give 2 actions" ability I got from Egan back on him.
Egan, can you verify this?Shake, you said you did two things last night, one was redirect Roden. What was the second?
Oh, I used the "give 2 actions" ability I got from Egan back on him.
Jim, what do you think are the odds that Max:
1) is capable of performing neighbor-type actions unblockably.
2) is capable of performing both a neighbor-type action and a mafiakill and the same time.
3) is willing to give you the gift you were given while being scum.
Jim, what is your evaluation of webb's behavior? You said web was scummy before, could you go into detail?
I want to get his consent on that, though.He says he's okay with it.
Between the two, Shakerag seems more dangerous.Uh, sorry to triple-post (still not beating Drunkerag), but I should've said Shakerag there.
Works for me. I'll choose Jim and someone random, and I'll list who I targeted in my message.
Shakerag.
wait, what was that shit about glass lens, because I got an ability called that last night/ Or did I mention that alread?
Uhhhhhhhh. I thought Roden got that on N0.
This game is confusing, cut me some slack.
Fuck you!
Shake, is being Shakeragian a Status or an Auto?
So Web had a ability stolen from them by Roden N0, and you had an ability stolen from you N1, after you claimed immunity to kills?
...
Roden
I am not hunting for scum as a pair, but I do think I know why the mafia chose to no-kill last night, having gotten the above information.
Jim and web both: what are your thoughts on a Knighting / Roden scumteam?
Do I have to claim this? Shit ok.
The ability I got from Roden on N1 can be used on N2 to reveal your alignment to a person. Why tf would scum have an ability that reveals your alignment?
wait, what was that shit about glass lens, because I got an ability called that last night/ Or did I mention that alread?Hmm... Okay, Shakerag, I'll play that game! If it's Lenglon, then let's work backwards from there.
Jim and web both: what are your thoughts on a Knighting / Roden scumteam?Knightwing / Roden? Possible, but very improbable. That involves Knightwing, our only confirmed roleblocker, having done something that wasn't a roleblock. Basically, there needs to be a non-kill somewhere. A lot of my assumptions are on something stopping the kill, but it's far more likely if Knightwing is scum that you are scum, since you have, well, disease-related abilities, and that'd be something that feels very Mafiakill-esque.
But Roden got that ability from TricMagic. That's not alignment indicative for Roden.
I might be a little guilty of not paying attention, but since you're all here, mind running me through what the plan you came up with is and why Shakerag?webadict believes that Shakerag is the one blending everyone's actions around. This sounds consistent with the theme of Shakerag's roleclaim, and you already know that Shakerag is one of the three players I said I suspected most, so I'm willing to give it a go.
I'm still waffling if web and lenglon are bold enough scum to play footsies in the open.Wellll, yes, probably. I'll give you that one. Is that what you think is most likely to be the case? If you flip town, I'll strongly consider whatever argument you make here.
I mean ok, wubba got a lazy vote, but now I want to hear Max's justification for a vote on me. Mind you, I appreciate it, but put a bit more meat behind it for me, would you?I mean, webadict asked me to. I really do suspect you, partly because I think you're the kind of person to play "I don't give a shit" as a scum cover, partly because of what I said above, partly because it presents a simple resolution to last night's action economy, partly because of scummy things you've done like declaring people town on the basis of actions you claim you saw (which is obviously an easy way to cover your partner, and can just as easily be disclaimed if that partner flips later)... I could probably come up with more reasons, but once I suspect someone I tend to compress the reasons down in my head to save space, so I'd have to think about it longer. But, also, most of all, I like horse-trading votes. It's my vice.
So Web had a ability stolen from them by Roden N0, and you had an ability stolen from you N1, after you claimed immunity to kills?Shakerag confirmed that Glass Lens was used on him, and mentioned no other actions being used. It's not impossible, but how do you overcome that?
...
Roden
I am not hunting for scum as a pair, but I do think I know why the mafia chose to no-kill last night, having gotten the above information.
I thought you got that from Egan?But Roden got that ability from TricMagic. That's not alignment indicative for Roden.
No, it's Roden ability. I got it on N0. If used on any night but N2 gives a second action, if used on N2 reveals your role to the person
QuoteFairy Godfather(town):Is this correct?
(Disabled, Auto) Mob Boss: Your fae connections in the police ensure alignment inspections on you always return Town, and anyone you visit will always alignment inspect as Mafia the Night you visit them.
(Night) Spinning Sand Into Glass [target]: You grant your target a boon - choose one of Glass Slippers, Glass Lens and Glass Dress. That ability becomes theirs. You may only grant each ability once.Quote-(Info) (Auto) Glass Slippers: Your steps are silent and graceful - you cannot be roleblocked, but track abilities used on you will only show you visiting nobody.(1-Shot, Night) Midnight [target]: Midnight strikes, and all Glass abilities your target possesses are destroyed. If they possessed only one Glass ability at the start of the Night this ability was used, you also shoot them with a poisonous dart, causing them to gain the “Poison” status. This ability counts as a kill action.
-(Info) (1-Shot, Night) Glass Lens [target]: You peer through a lens of truth - you learn your target’s alignment at the end of the next Day. While you possess this ability, the truth is bent, so investigative abilities you possess other than this one will fail when used. Fortunately, after this ability is used, it is destroyed.
-(Info) (1-Shot, Auto) Glass Dress: Your self is armored in soft folds of resilient glass - you can survive one kill used on you. However, the beauty of the gleaming glass forces all alignment inspection used on you to return a result of Town while you possess this ability.Quote-(Info) (Status) Poison: You will die at the end of this Day, after the execution! Your blood curdles in your veins. After you die to this effect this status is removed.
All I have for you is seeming contempt for webs argument and a lack of solid opinions.Me? I'm defending you, ya goofball! You're only not being suspected by me because you are the only reason I can think of that a kill didn't happen!
Shake, On N0, you got Glass Lens.
I thought you got that from Egan?
I thought you got that from Egan?
Wait, shit, kinda ddunk lemme recheck
That's not a DM. That's the end of day 1 lynch.
All I have for you is seeming contempt for webs argument and a lack of solid opinions.Me? I'm defending you, ya goofball! You're only not being suspected by me because you are the only reason I can think of that a kill didn't happen!
What's hammer? 4? Tempted to self vote to draw out scum thenI mean, it'd be pretty funny if you did and Roden hammered again, but maybe let's not.
Also, it should still be 5 — ⌊8/2⌋+1. So we'd need Lenglon to join in first to fully recapitulate d1.What's hammer? 4? Tempted to self vote to draw out scum thenI mean, it'd be pretty funny if you did and Roden hammered again, but maybe let's not.
FoU Votecount plz
(0) Knightwing64:
(0) webadict:
(0) Lenglon:
(0) Roden:
(2) Shakerag: Maximum Spin, webadict
(0) Egan_BW:
(0) Maximum Spin:
(0) Jim Groovester:
(6) Not Voting: Knightwing64, Lenglon, Roden, Shakerag, Egan_BW, Jim Groovester
5 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
Replace?
I did get a notification that I can use 2 actions on N2, presumably from Shakerag using Seed of Hope on me as one of his two actions.? What?
Didn't claim it because Shake didn't, and having two actions would paint a blocking target on me.
Hm, maybe the triple switch isn't fully correct. Maybe it is Knightwing/Egan_BW. I wonder why there wouldn't be a kill then?If you're not feeling confident, I'm going to go ahead and unvote. I'm still game for deals, but Jim is also asking me to change, and I don't want to be involved in a hammer if one should materialize while I'm not looking.
I wish so many people didn't claim/lie this game, it'd make things a bit easier.
Jim is also asking me to changeOk, he takes issue with that phrasing. He's not asking me to change, but he's not convinced it was the right idea. Either way, I think unvoting for now is the right thing to do.
I know it's bad form but I'm still looping back to the same position I had earlier in the day: It's a 2 for 1, lynch Max, then if town Lynch Knightwing and Jim becomes Confirmed, and If scum Lynch Jim and Knightwing becomes Confirmed.I'm not excited about this plan. Lynching Jim would have the same effect, although I'm not excited about that either. Since I know I'm town, I'd say that, if you think that's the Thunderdome, it's best to just lynch Knightwing, and then you know what to do if he flips town. I'm not even sure that's the thunderdome though.
And this is all assuming that a mafia-controlled redirect redirected knightwing's roleblock to the mafia themselves.I think this is a more fundamental flaw in the reasoning. It seems more likely that Knightwing really did intend to block me, whether scum or not, but ended up hitting someone else, possibly within the scumteam, "by accident" - not a planned redirecting, but maybe one that's not controllable, like mixing actions up between players randomly.
Seriously, who does that? Who, as mafia, redirects the KNOWN ROLEBLOCKER into THEIR OWN TEAM?
I guess that's an argument for Drunkrag mafia but still wtf.
But who claims to have roleblocked someone as mafia, and then not actually roleblock them?
Um, I’m towngit smrt
That’s my insight
Pls don’t vote me
I roleblocked Lenglon N0 and roleblocked? Max N1?
Smart people figure out what happened
By this logic, shouldn't we be lynching Egan then?-snip-I think this is a more fundamental flaw in the reasoning. It seems more likely that Knightwing really did intend to block me, whether scum or not, but ended up hitting someone else, possibly within the scumteam, "by accident" - not a planned redirecting, but maybe one that's not controllable, like mixing actions up between players randomly.
Yes, that's reasonable. It's not the only explanation I can think of, but it's definitely a viable one.By this logic, shouldn't we be lynching Egan then?-snip-I think this is a more fundamental flaw in the reasoning. It seems more likely that Knightwing really did intend to block me, whether scum or not, but ended up hitting someone else, possibly within the scumteam, "by accident" - not a planned redirecting, but maybe one that's not controllable, like mixing actions up between players randomly.
By this logic, shouldn't we be lynching Egan then?-snip-I think this is a more fundamental flaw in the reasoning. It seems more likely that Knightwing really did intend to block me, whether scum or not, but ended up hitting someone else, possibly within the scumteam, "by accident" - not a planned redirecting, but maybe one that's not controllable, like mixing actions up between players randomly.
But why would scum!Egan have an ability that could reveal his role to someone?He would have an auto that makes the ability lie.
But why would scum!Egan have an ability that could reveal his role to someone?Last BeBYOR, anyone who roleblocked me got handed out free investigatives automatically. It was then up to me to figure out how to make that a benefit instead of a downside. "Why would scum!Maximum Spin have an ability that makes other people cops?"
But why would scum!Egan have an ability that could reveal his role to someone?Oh, and one other thing:
But why would scum!Egan have an ability that could reveal his role to someone?He would have an auto that makes the ability lie.
And, I think, I can confirm that Roden did not use a kill action last night.I mean, I already know who the killer was, but that's not the point of this interrogation.
Anyway, we can end this interrogation here, thank you for participating in this demonstration. Maximum Spin and Jim Groovester are the scum.
Hmmm... Alright, I am in favor of No Execute or whatever. Actions don't make complete sense yet, so thinking too much about it will be pointless.
Nah, I'll live. If a bit irately.Replace?
If you'd like I can put up a replacement notice. I'd just like to get confirmation.
stuff
No, no one thought you did the kill. I mostly think that Roden tried to do the kill and was blocked. Not sure if it's worth voting Roden Today or not, but I'm pretty sure I die Tonight anyway.And, I think, I can confirm that Roden did not use a kill action last night.I mean, I already know who the killer was, but that's not the point of this interrogation.
Hang on, let's back the fuck up to this. Wubbs is voting me so you thought I did the kill?
I actually don't have any logic involved, I just flip a coin. Also, try reading, since I did put reasoning for each of my votes.stuff
No, logically, Lenglon has a point. Knightwing64 but I still want wubba to logic out his voting this day if he was so certain he saw who attempted a kill.
No, no one thought you did the kill. I mostly think that Roden tried to do the kill and was blocked.
Consider going back and reading.No, no one thought you did the kill. I mostly think that Roden tried to do the kill and was blocked.
Back up. What did you extrapolate that from then?
I actually don't have any logic involved, I just flip a coin.
Consider going back and reading.No, no one thought you did the kill. I mostly think that Roden tried to do the kill and was blocked.
Back up. What did you extrapolate that from then?
stuff
No, logically, Lenglon has a point. Knightwing64 but I still want wubba to logic out his voting this day if he was so certain he saw who attempted a kill.
Also, why are you so mean
Either I’m lying, max is lying or I got redirected and not told about it, why are you so certain it’s me? Because it’s not.
Oh, because Max tried to kill someone last Night, and Knightwing stopped him.
But, like I said, I'm far more confident of Jim Groovester than I am Maximum Spin. I can be convinced rather easily to vote Jim first.
Um, I’m town
That’s my insight
Pls don’t vote me
I roleblocked Lenglon N0 and roleblocked? Max N1?
stuff
No, logically, Lenglon has a point. Knightwing64 but I still want wubba to logic out his voting this day if he was so certain he saw who attempted a kill.
👁👄👁
Really?
Either I’m lying, max is lying or I got redirected and not told about it, why are you so certain it’s me? Because it’s not.
Also, why are you so mean
I know it's bad form but I'm still looping back to the same position I had earlier in the day: It's a 2 for 1, lynch Max, then if town Lynch Knightwing and Jim becomes Confirmed, and If scum Lynch Jim and Knightwing becomes Confirmed.
Shakerag pressing webadict
Jim is being a little shit. Prolly town, because meta/pride.
Because my knowledge of the situation changed. That's what happens. That's what we in the business call "progression."Oh, because Max tried to kill someone last Night, and Knightwing stopped him.But, like I said, I'm far more confident of Jim Groovester than I am Maximum Spin. I can be convinced rather easily to vote Jim first.
Why were you so confident and then backed off?
Jim did not in any way ask me to put my own vote in any particular place, but I endorse this message. Knightwing64.You know what, I do have a pontential idea: @FoU: If an Action with multiple targets is redirected, how does that work?
I don't know that I endorse the part that implies we should chain-lynch, though, I should add. I do endorse the part premised on arguing that the simplest explanation for last night is just lying.
When will you get my alignment right? Apparently, not this game, in spite of how obvious it is. The beauty and abhorrent displays of tumultuous lies. I'm always Mafia, even when I'm not.
OkayWhy.
Knightwing64
🖕
(5) Knightwing64: Shakerag, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin, webadict, Knightwing64
(0) webadict:
(0) Lenglon:
(0) Roden:
(0) Shakerag:
(0) Egan_BW:
(0) Maximum Spin:
(0) Jim Groovester:
(3) Not Voting: Lenglon, Roden, Egan_BW
5 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
Game-Master(town):
(Auto) Intangible Hand: As you act at a layer above the world, you do not visit your targets when you use targeted actions. This does not prevent your targeted actions from having their effect.
(Day) Railroad [target1][target2]: You railroad the game’s plot, limiting your first target’s choices for the next Night - they may either attempt to use a targeted action on your second target, or take no action. However, you may not use Railroad on the same player twice, as that would be repetitive game design.
(Night) Serendipity [target]: Your target has either a fortunate or unfortunate occurrence happen to them, according to your storyboard. When you use this action, you choose between inflicting a random encounter on your target (roleblocking them) or granting them a treasure (allowing them to take an additional action the next Night). However, you may not use Serendipity on the same player twice, as that would be repetitive game design.
You know what, I do have a pontential idea: @FoU: If an Action with multiple targets is redirected, how does that work?
@FoU: If an Action self-targets through redirection or bussing, does it fail if it could not normally self-target? What happens to multiple target Actions? Can someone steal messages?By default, if an action is redirected or bussed to its own user, it still takes effect. Unless specified otherwise in the redirection ability, if a multiple target action is redirected, one of the intended targets will be changed, selected at random, though specific implementations of redirection could do things differently. A bus, by contrast, would change whichever target or targets landed on a bussed player while leaving the targets not aimed at a bussed player alone. I'd be open to a discussion about this after the game, but it's what I'm working with for now, for a lack of better ideas.
And yes, if a messaging action was redirected, the message would appropriately be sent to the action's new target.
Ye.You're dead.
Also, taking a break from mafia will probably do me some good.
I get way too worked up about these types of things. Whenever I got voted I immediately type a spew of such vitriol that it actually surprises me until I realize that I probably shouldn’t post it and erase it and make a chill post
Don’t cry when I die, just remember that in my heart of hearts, to me…
All of you are bitches
The Beginner’s BYOR 3 Role That Is Shakeragian Because Of Course I Would Submit That(town):
(Auto) Typical Shakerag: When you are hit by a non-Mafiakill single target action, you gain a 1-Shot copy of that action because reasons. Whenever you use a 1-Shot action you possess, you lose all 1-Shot actions you possess after it resolves.
(Night) Shakeragian, Thus Of Shakerag, Thus Belonging To Shakerag [target]: You make a persuasive, nonsensical argument, forcing your target to target you. If they would use a kill on you, you revive if you die as a result of that kill, then lose this ability if you revived as a result of this ability. However, if your target possesses a Shakeragian role, you destroy any killing actions they possess, then trade roles with them, instead of this ability’s normal effect.
(0) webadict:
(0) Lenglon:
(0) Roden:
(0) Egan_BW:
(0) Maximum Spin:
(0) Jim Groovester:
(7) Not Voting: webadict, webadict, Lenglon, Roden, Egan_BW, Maximum Spin, Jim Groovester
4 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
Hey, I'm up for day start this time.Neat. You aren't who I'm waiting for so our desires to wait don't conflict.
Before I make any claims, let me share a role fact: I learn something about who visits either me or Jim. I find something about this information suspicious.
I claim Tracker. Web visited Shake last night.Well that isn't possible, since I target two people.
Technically, it said "Lenglon's alignment is town." But you know, redirection.This is also impossible.
I was right. I am awesome.You're wrong, and not very awesome.
My other action, since Shakerag used Seed of Hope (the un-powered up version) on me N1, was to roleblock and destroy all killing moves of Maxiumum Spin. No feedback on that one, but it did go through.It's interesting that you claim this.
You seemed really intent that Knightwing was scum. I wonder why that is? You were Roleblocked N1, so his removal was probably necessary.I was right. I am awesome.You're wrong, and not very awesome.
I'm town. I believe Jim is town. Who do you think killed Shakerag?
You seemed really intent that Knightwing was scum. I wonder why that is?I wasn't intent, at least not until Jim pointed out to me in my playerchat a few times that he was acting like he did in Demon Mafia. We both really did think he was scum up until the flip.
[11:52 PM] Jim Groovester: I'm going to be pretty confused if Knightwing64 isn't scum.
[11:53 PM] isospin: SAME.
but Shakerag confirmed Roden's Actions on N1there was no kill on n1
I could say it was you. Both of those are reasonable answers.Come on, you can't reasonably say that.
My other action, since Shakerag used Seed of Hope (the un-powered up version) on me N1, was to roleblock and destroy all killing moves of Maxiumum Spin.
You were roleblocked N1 by Knightwing, so try again.but Shakerag confirmed Roden's Actions on N1there was no kill on n1
Dude, you exploited exactly that situation in MVM3 round 5, did you think I wouldn't remember? Toaster jailkept me n1 and tried to build a lynch because there was no kill, but actually he and I were both town.You were roleblocked N1 by Knightwing, so try again.but Shakerag confirmed Roden's Actions on N1there was no kill on n1
Remember that thing where Jim didn't claim his track until later? This is that problem again.I know what Jim did and I'm willing to claim it. Just ask. I don't know if he'll be happy about it, but if it gets you to see sense, it's worth it.
What really hurts your case the most Max is that Jim has posted so very little throughout the game, but he seems rather active in your chat. He seems to only show up to vote and that's it.... do you think I'd allow that if we were scum together? Come on.
I'll be happy if he comes in here and wishes to discuss things himself.Remember that thing where Jim didn't claim his track until later? This is that problem again.I know what Jim did and I'm willing to claim it. Just ask. I don't know if he'll be happy about it, but if it gets you to see sense, it's worth it.
Personally, I think you wouldn't allow it more if you were Town.What really hurts your case the most Max is that Jim has posted so very little throughout the game, but he seems rather active in your chat. He seems to only show up to vote and that's it.... do you think I'd allow that if we were scum together? Come on.
Why? I'm not in charge of him and I have no need to make sure he's not suspicious, as town. I've only been focusing on making sure his arguments make sense and sound towny to *me*.Personally, I think you wouldn't allow it more if you were Town.What really hurts your case the most Max is that Jim has posted so very little throughout the game, but he seems rather active in your chat. He seems to only show up to vote and that's it.... do you think I'd allow that if we were scum together? Come on.
Then claim what Jim did.He told me he was going to target Shakerag with an ability to give him an extra vote. Then Shakerag would have a copy of the vote-giving ability to use next night, and be able to confirm Jim's action.
Okay.In reverse order... I don't know Jim's entire role. I know a few things. One thing I promised not to share. Two things you already know about (tracking and vote-giving). Technically, I don't know that anything he told me is true, but he probably does have the vote-giving ability because I've used upgrade on it twice and currency was deducted. But I don't know if I'd even be told if it didn't exist, since currency was even deducted when I was roleblocked.
Given that, why are you so sure it's not Jim Groovester? I could understand it not being you, but how can you be sure it's not Jim Groovester?
Why haven't you claimed your entire role yet? Why have you claimed Jim Groovester's entire role yet? You're just vaguely alluding to it still.
Given that, why are you so sure it's not Jim Groovester? I could understand it not being you, but how can you be sure it's not Jim Groovester?Let me add: How sure are you that it is Jim, if it's not also me? Is that something you find believable? I thought Jim and I were your only viable pairing.
You are (though I'm really gauging how well Jim/Roden works for you), but I'm going from your perspective here. You've seen how my Ability works, you saw that I was probably redirected some way, and Egan_BW has backed me up. So, in your mind, I see two possible team pairings: Web/Egan or Jim/Roden. Lenglon has been backed up by both Shakerag and me, and was Roleblocked on N0 by Knightwing. So, all of those are accounted for. Her Action is done. I'll note that I have the same fears about Lenglon's role as Shakerag probably did, but that's not as big of a concern right now. That seems like the extent of her entire role, which seems pretty balanced game-wise.Given that, why are you so sure it's not Jim Groovester? I could understand it not being you, but how can you be sure it's not Jim Groovester?Let me add: How sure are you that it is Jim, if it's not also me? Is that something you find believable? I thought Jim and I were your only viable pairing.
Okay, Jim just told me he got my upgrade.That's TWO roleblockers that you say haven't roleblocked you.
That means that, whatever Egan did, it can't have been roleblocking me.
That means that it's probably Egan and webadict.
Literally, the most unexplained thing about N1 is how I got redirected to you. I mean, from your perspective, you'd have to think Jim Groovester/one of Roden/Lenglon is the most likely team, with Roden being the MOST likely to be teammates.Yes. If it's Jim, it'd be Jim and Roden. That's what I was hinting at. Look at your action list: if you cross off the "Jim targeted Roden" and "Roden used Glass Lens" lines, and just swap me and Roden directly, it works out and Roden would have been roleblocked with the kill.
Egan_BW is confirmed in my mind by Shakerag's death.Can you explain why this is?
This time, I did get told I was roleblocked, so it's not really the same thing.Okay, Jim just told me he got my upgrade.That's TWO roleblockers that you say haven't roleblocked you.
That means that, whatever Egan did, it can't have been roleblocking me.
That means that it's probably Egan and webadict.
Lenglon, I enjoy your purple text, but it's hard to read in Darkling. I assume that is what you were gonna ask.sounds like my text didn't have the formatting tags go through properly, because I used Itallic mediumorchid which shows much better on darkling than purple. mediumorchid isn't on the colors dropdown so it's a common mistake when people try to copy my speech color.
My role is 'the role that is a vanilla townie role except' and I'm leaving off the rest of the role name.I've had this in the back of my mind for the whole game.
Ok everyone is pussyfooting around, so let's see about breaking this game.Does anyone else wish to claim a Shakeragian role? Mine, as I said, is not. No dead player but Shakerag has had one.
I'm immune to night kill actions from Shakeragian roles. The fact that my roles states this specifically probably implies:
1) Shakeragian roles (outside of myself) are scum
2) There are a mix of town and scum roles that are both Shakeragian and have killing abilities
3) There are just town roles with killing abilities that are also Shakeragian. I think this is the least likely.
Well shit, it IS mediumorchid... I DIDN'T know that was a color and I just said purple because... well, purple is pretty close. It is also italicized, but that didn't stand out to me because I just assumed that was FoU formatting, but... that's my bad.Lenglon, I enjoy your purple text, but it's hard to read in Darkling. I assume that is what you were gonna ask.sounds like my text didn't have the formatting tags go through properly, because I used Itallic mediumorchid which shows much better on darkling than purple. mediumorchid isn't on the colors dropdown so it's a common mistake when people try to copy my speech color.
The claim I was waiting on was Web's - messaging you when you're already diseased gives me extra info about your actions that night.The only people who could claim that are Shakerag and Roden.
Web performed a Single action last night, and it was fully successful.
I was hoping someone would claim to have received a message from Web, becuase that would sllow us to confirm Web as town. Alternately Web might claim to have been blocked, action failed, or no actioned, all of which would make Web caught out as scum.
One sec.The real issue I wanted here was for Jim Groovester to vote someone, since I think he'd be up for defending Maximum Spin on this one, but he's too waffley to vote, but yes, I've been keeping that noted down for a while. I know I'm not Shakeragian.My role is 'the role that is a vanilla townie role except' and I'm leaving off the rest of the role name.I've had this in the back of my mind for the whole game.Ok everyone is pussyfooting around, so let's see about breaking this game.Does anyone else wish to claim a Shakeragian role? Mine, as I said, is not. No dead player but Shakerag has had one.
I'm immune to night kill actions from Shakeragian roles. The fact that my roles states this specifically probably implies:
1) Shakeragian roles (outside of myself) are scum
2) There are a mix of town and scum roles that are both Shakeragian and have killing abilities
3) There are just town roles with killing abilities that are also Shakeragian. I think this is the least likely.
Alright, everyone (though, mostly just Egan/Lenglon (plus anyone else that's willing to participate)), how much do you trust me? I have a way to prove myself Town (or at least narrow the field of viable team candidates), but it involves just... the tiniest amount of trust in what I'm about to do. It will also mean that I 100% die Tonight, but that's honestly probably for the best.I wouldn't say I trust you, but I'm deeply curious what you're about to pull out and willing to take part.
The question I have is if I prove it's Max/Jim (The risky option) or just safely prove it's Jim and let Lenglon deal with Max vs Roden Tomorrow. Up to y'all!I gotta warn you, if your plan only works if we're both scum, it's going to be wasted.
You say that, and yet I am in a lot of doubt. You gotta convince me it's Roden instead of you because Egan_BW is cleared to me because he knew the name of my status and how my action worked.The question I have is if I prove it's Max/Jim (The risky option) or just safely prove it's Jim and let Lenglon deal with Max vs Roden Tomorrow. Up to y'all!I gotta warn you, if your plan only works if we're both scum, it's going to be wasted.
I have put some thinking in, and as long as Web can find at least one scum for sure, I'm happy with pretty much any plan.It doesn't find one, but it narrows down the scum really fast and at extreme danger to losing!
It doesn't find one, but it narrows down the scum really fast and at extreme danger to losing!I... don't understand how this narrows down the scum, actually? I have a headache right now, so maybe I'm missing something, but why couldn't anyone vote here?
Jim Groovester Jim Groovester
This narrows down the scum to me or Jim, since it's 4 to Hammer. Also, specifically, me and Egan vs Jim/unknown.
I am a double voter.
The point is that I could hammer anyone with 3 votes (myself + my partner). So, anyone with 1 vote on them (Egan_BW for instance) can be hammered if I'm scum.But that requires coordinating, your partner might not even be here right now, or you could just choose not to do it since that would immediately invite any night disruptive roles to stop you.
True. But who's my partner? Jim was just here. It could be you, right? It's not Lenglon, she's actively here. Roden is not, but he basically framed me at Day start, why bother with that?The point is that I could hammer anyone with 3 votes (myself + my partner). So, anyone with 1 vote on them (Egan_BW for instance) can be hammered if I'm scum.But that requires coordinating, your partner might not even be here right now, or you could just choose not to do it since that would immediately invite any night disruptive roles to stop you.
True. But who's my partner? Jim was just here. It could be you, right? It's not Lenglon, she's actively here. Roden is not, but he basically framed me at Day start, why bother with that?Oh. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, it could be a weird trick with Roden, but I get what you're going for now.
So, it's gotta be Egan from your perspective.
No. From my perspective you're as likely to be scum as Jim is.True. But who's my partner? Jim was just here. It could be you, right? It's not Lenglon, she's actively here. Roden is not, but he basically framed me at Day start, why bother with that?Oh. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, it could be a weird trick with Roden, but I get what you're going for now.
So, it's gotta be Egan from your perspective.
Did my putting Jim in hammer range in any way convince you that I'm not his partner?
This narrows down the scum to me or Jim, since it's 4 to Hammer. Also, specifically, me and Egan vs Jim/unknown.false?
...I think this is the right play. No lynch.
No Lynch
I am intentionally choosing not to explain myself here.
Why?...I think this is the right play. No lynch.
No Lynch
I am intentionally choosing not to explain myself here.
Why?Because I have no clue who scum are anymore and I have too much of a headache to want to play this game. Maybe tomorrow I'll have a better idea. Or be dead. That's fine too.
UnvoteYeah, well, I strongly dislike being here right now.
I strongly dislike that answer.
@Lenglon: Re-read Max's claim. Jim has a double vote Action, which is why Max is floundering a bit. He can't definitely prove Jim is scum because of Lylobreaker, and he's a bit unwilling to do anything else.You're honestly giving me more credit than I deserve here. I'm just annoyed to have to seriously consider my strongest townread as scum, and I genuinely do have a severe headache. I haven't even fully worked through the implications here.
Regardless, NL is not an option here.
What has Jim actually said and done that makes Jim your strongest townread? You've been vague about this all game, but considering that it's entirely based on a private chat nobody else has access to, that's to be expected. But is there really anything that Jim has said to confirm himself?Not really. It's the whole gestalt intuition I got from talking to him. He seemed like he was genuinely trying to figure out the game with me. He seemed genuinely shocked when Knightwing wasn't scum. I like to think I'm good at reading these things.
What has Jim actually said and done that makes Jim your strongest townread? You've been vague about this all game, but considering that it's entirely based on a private chat nobody else has access to, that's to be expected. But is there really anything that Jim has said to confirm himself?^ Literally this entire post.
Also, please bear in mind that redirectors can impersonate trackers trivialy, and for the, what, fifth, time I think? I'm telling everyone that I have reason to believe that the scum have at least one person that can double-action.
Post a genuine read from him from your chat. That shouldn't be against the rules, only posting PMs from the mod are.What has Jim actually said and done that makes Jim your strongest townread? You've been vague about this all game, but considering that it's entirely based on a private chat nobody else has access to, that's to be expected. But is there really anything that Jim has said to confirm himself?Not really. It's the whole gestalt intuition I got from talking to him. He seemed like he was genuinely trying to figure out the game with me. He seemed genuinely shocked when Knightwing wasn't scum. I like to think I'm good at reading these things.
[6:38 PM] Jim Groovester: Uggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggh this is probably town webadict.From d1.
Egan BW — 08/11/2022
uhhh!
I should really figure out what a "schedule" or "workflow" is one of these days
Radio Controlled — 08/11/2022
All great things begin with a start!
Lenglon — Yesterday at 7:51 PM
phosphate and photoreactivity when?
Lenglon — Today at 11:32 AM
lol
Max: that's not how discord timestamps work... bro I have different Discord settings because I like it to look like IRC. Try compact mode.
From the Power and Pulse public discord:QuoteEgan BW — 08/11/2022
uhhh!
I should really figure out what a "schedule" or "workflow" is one of these days
Radio Controlled — 08/11/2022
All great things begin with a start!
Lenglon — Yesterday at 7:51 PM
phosphate and photoreactivity when?
Lenglon — Today at 11:32 AM
lol
[6:32 PM] Lenglon: Pasta and Poison when?Unvote
[6:42 PM] Egan BW: uhhh!
Dang, that's solid. Never seen scum!Jim post like that.Quote[6:38 PM] Jim Groovester: Uggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggh this is probably town webadict.From d1.
Darn, I was gonna flaunt how I could hammer with my totally real partner there. Lousy cooking distracting me.No need. You've made your point, at least when it comes to convincing me. At this point I just want to see where the other three players are at.
[10:54 PM] Jim Groovester: I've been typing up a post for
hours now I guess
and the conclusion I'm going to reach is that Knightwing64 is probably lying and that he should be lynched because there's no good explanation for where his roleblock went other than he didn't attempt it and that his current meta is very familiar to Demon mafia.
the conclusion I'm going to reachInteresting phrasing that.
Saw the same thing.Quotethe conclusion I'm going to reachInteresting phrasing that.
Max: that's not how discord timestamps work
From the Power and Pulse public discord:QuoteEgan BW — 08/11/2022
uhhh!
I should really figure out what a "schedule" or "workflow" is one of these days
Radio Controlled — 08/11/2022
All great things begin with a start!
Lenglon — Yesterday at 7:51 PM
phosphate and photoreactivity when?
Lenglon — Today at 11:32 AM
lol
11:13 PM] Egan BW: caw
[12:04 AM] Radio Controlled: Woo!
[9:51 PM] Lenglon: phosphate and photoreactivity when?
[10:11 PM] Egan BW: :v
[11:30 PM] Radio Controlled: White phosphorous and lasers, two excellent ways to dispose of mages!
[11:30 PM] Radio Controlled: Class I hope you're taking notes this will be on the test.
I'll just be blunt, my suspicion is that you're making this up on the fly, and I figure if you are forced to make a very large Jim-post it will either be obviously fake, contain blatent scumtells, or will take you a long time to do it.Look, do you want a whole lengthy chunk?
[11:51 PM] isospin: I guess Fallacy's here so we'll find out soon.
[11:52 PM] Jim Groovester: I'm going to be pretty confused if Knightwing64 isn't scum.
[11:53 PM] isospin: SAME.
[11:57 PM] isospin: By the way, because of everything that's happened so far, I should be able to upgrade you again. (I get idle gains too, at the end of the day.)
[11:57 PM] Jim Groovester: Alright, cool.
[12:06 AM] isospin: ... wow.
[12:06 AM] isospin: Okay.
[12:06 AM] isospin: Damn.
[12:07 AM] Jim Groovester: Eh,
[12:07 AM] Jim Groovester: Just starting high school.
[12:07 AM] Jim Groovester: I'm not going to read too much into it.
[12:07 AM] isospin: I'm talking about the flip.
[12:08 AM] Jim Groovester: Oh, it was on the page I wasn't refreshing.
[12:09 AM] Jim Groovester: Well.
[12:09 AM] Jim Groovester: Shit.
[12:09 AM] isospin: Yeah.
[12:09 AM] isospin: What do we even do now?
[12:09 AM] Jim Groovester: I don't fucking know.
[12:09 AM] isospin: Lose, I guess.
[12:09 AM] Jim Groovester: I'm going to sleep on it.
[12:09 AM] Jim Groovester: Well probably.
[12:09 AM] isospin: I should too.
[7:31 PM] isospin: Do you have any thoughts about the game today? And do you know what you want upgraded?
[7:31 PM] Jim Groovester: I've been thinking in the midsts of playing Noita.
[7:32 PM] Jim Groovester: Not exactly coming to solid conclusions though.
[7:33 PM] Jim Groovester: I'm debating between using my vote one shot or protecting somebody during the night.
[7:34 PM] Jim Groovester: I'm struggling to figure out who the best targets for these are.
[7:39 PM] isospin: I'll give it some thought.
[7:40 PM] Jim Groovester: Does Roden/Egan_BW make sense as a scum team?
[7:40 PM] Jim Groovester: They didn't do jack shit on Day 2.
[7:40 PM] Jim Groovester: I'm not even sure they voted.
[7:40 PM] isospin: I think anything's possible at this point.
[7:40 PM] Jim Groovester: Yeah.
[7:42 PM] isospin: Is your vote one-shot a vote helper or a vote harmer? Or a... vote... neutraler?
[7:42 PM] Jim Groovester: +1 vote.
[7:42 PM] Jim Groovester: For the target.
[7:45 PM] isospin: In that case, is it too much to hope you might use it on me, then?
[7:46 PM] Jim Groovester: Why?
[7:46 PM] Jim Groovester: Not milo or lylo yet.
[7:47 PM] isospin: Won't it be mylo if someone dies? I thought I checked that yesterday.
[7:48 PM] isospin: It'd be 6 players left, 2 scum, 4:2, mislynch → 3:2, kill → 2:2
[7:48 PM] Jim Groovester: Shouldn't I use it N3 then?
[7:49 PM] isospin: That said... I don't even know who I'd vote, so if you have protects too (I'm not even going to express surprise at that :P you're clearly some kind of vanilla-themed JOAT) it would be preferable to prevent a kill tonight so it doesn't become mylo.
[7:50 PM] isospin: Only if we hit scum tomorrow, otherwise d4 would never happen, right?
[7:50 PM] Jim Groovester: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm is the scum win condition parity regardless of votes?
[7:50 PM] isospin: Actually, I should check that. That's what it was LAST time, but that was webadict modding.
Is this allowed? I guess it's allowed.I don't see why it wouldn't be. It's not a mod pm.
I can verify from questions I asked FoU regarding my "poison" 1-shot, that scum wincon is the same as it was when Web was mod, with similar implications.Yeah, we both asked right after and were also told that. That's why I stopped there: I didn't want to quote mod communications. :P
I'll just be blunt, my suspicion is that you're making this up on the fly, and I figure if you are forced to make a very large Jim-post it will either be obviously fake, contain blatent scumtells, or will take you a long time to do it.
I have put some thinking in, and as long as Web can find at least one scum for sure, I'm happy with pretty much any plan.It doesn't find one, but it narrows down the scum really fast and at extreme danger to losing!
Jim Groovester Jim Groovester
This narrows down the scum to me or Jim, since it's 4 to Hammer. Also, specifically, me and Egan vs Jim/unknown.
I am a double voter.
Web, how did you get +1 vote?I can answer that. If nobody Buys he gains an extra vote from "spite".
Then where did the scum redirect go last night?Web, how did you get +1 vote?I can answer that. If nobody Buys he gains an extra vote from "spite".
Web, how did you get +1 vote?When no one buys my goods, I get an additional vote at the end of the Day. Hence why I told people not to buy. But TricMagic just loves spiting me. My other Abilities are pretty bad in comparison (Roden can back me up on that.)
No idea. Still lost on that one. I am willing to leave my vote on Jim if you want, since Jim is unwilling to go after Max.Then where did the scum redirect go last night?Web, how did you get +1 vote?I can answer that. If nobody Buys he gains an extra vote from "spite".
Can you explain how that's correlated?Then where did the scum redirect go last night?Web, how did you get +1 vote?I can answer that. If nobody Buys he gains an extra vote from "spite".
Can you explain how that's correlated?I was working on a pet theory that the mafia redirected Jim's +1 vote to Web.
Jim, if you don't make a convincing argument for why Max is scum, I'm double voting you.I'll just be blunt, my suspicion is that you're making this up on the fly, and I figure if you are forced to make a very large Jim-post it will either be obviously fake, contain blatent scumtells, or will take you a long time to do it.
Are you for real
I am pleased that the game has devolved into a game of telephone with everything I've said in neighbor chat.
Not possible if you believe Max. Max said the Ability gets disabled and upgraded, which Jim said happened.Can you explain how that's correlated?I was working on a pet theory that the mafia redirected Jim's +1 vote to Web.
Not possible if you believe Max. Max said the Ability gets disabled and upgraded, which Jim said happened.No, the ability doesn't get disabled, it just gains new features.
Hey man, you better hurry and start making that case against Jim Groovester before he makes one against you!Not possible if you believe Max. Max said the Ability gets disabled and upgraded, which Jim said happened.No, the ability doesn't get disabled, it just gains new features.
Jim, if you don't make a convincing argument for why Max is scum, I'm double voting you.I'll just be blunt, my suspicion is that you're making this up on the fly, and I figure if you are forced to make a very large Jim-post it will either be obviously fake, contain blatent scumtells, or will take you a long time to do it.
Are you for real
I am pleased that the game has devolved into a game of telephone with everything I've said in neighbor chat.
Web, the more I think on it the more I'm leaning towards lynching Roden for having an invalid track of you. The only alternate I can think of is that Roden was redirected AGAIN and this time tracked Jim instead of you. Also, if we assume the following:First, you and I both know that's a trap, so here's the very obvious answer that goes with it: No, fuck off, I'm not voting anyone except Jim or Max.
Web is town
I am town
Egan is town
Max and Jim are not the scumteam
then by process of elimination Roden must be scum.
I really, REALLY want that answer to my question to FoU now.
Web is town
I am town
Egan is town
Max and Jim are not the scumteam
then by process of elimination Roden must be scum.
Stop dodging my question about Roden. WHAT'S YOUR READ ON HIM"Look at me, I've decided to play Today instead of literally at any other point in the game! I sure hope I can force webadict/Lenglon/Roden/Max/anyone but me to do my dirty work for me because I'll have a heck of a time defending Maximum Spin for no reason at all! Gosh golly gee, Max sure did play a lot better than I deserved for my partner!"
You know what I take that back.It would set a better Beginner example, to be fair.
I do not want to have a bitter Day 3 argument like this.
Would you do me a favor and cut back on the snark and I'll do the same?
I targeted Roden/Lenglon => Actioned Maximum Spin and LenglonHere's our list of Actions. Let's think about this one REALLY hard.
Jim targeted Roden => Tracked ? to Shakerag
Max gifted Jim => Unmodified
Shakerag magneted Roden => ? redirected to Shakerag
Shakerag gifted Egan_BW => Egan_BW received 2 Actions
Knightwing64 roleblocked Maximum Spin => ? was roleblocked
Egan_BW targeted Roden => Egan_BW action failed
Lenglon messaged Shakerag => Unmodified
Roden used Glass Lens on Lenglon => Roden used Glass Lens on Shakerag
I targeted Roden/Lenglon => Actioned Maximum Spin and Lenglon (THE BUS!)Solved.
Jim Bussed Maximum Spin and RodenJim targeted Roden => Tracked ? to ShakeragLies, since it was claimed AFTERWARD. (Max is obviously a buddy.)
Maximum Spin was Roleblocked (Did no action.)Max gifted Jim => Unmodified
Shakerag magneted Roden => MAXIMUM SPIN magneted to Shakerag
Shakerag gifted Egan_BW => Egan_BW received 2 Actions
Knightwing64 roleblocked Maximum Spin => MAXIMUM SPIN was roleblocked (KNIGHTWING64 CANNOT BE REDIRECTED BY ACTIONS!!!)
Egan_BW targeted Roden => Egan_BW targeted Maximum Spin (MAXIMUM SPIN PERFORMED NO ACTION ON NIGHT 1 DUE TO ROLEBLOCK!)
Lenglon messaged Shakerag => Unmodified
Roden used Glass Lens on Lenglon => Roden used Glass Lens on LENGLON (THIS NEVER CHANGED!!!)
Are you implying a Max/Jim scumteam, wuba? I really don't think they coulda faked that groupchat.Egan. I had to stop typing and close my eyes for a minute to process this because I am, frankly, astounded. Yes. I 100% believe that they are scum. I want you to realize this because I will be dead Tomorrow. I don't care which one we execute because both are scum. I will vote either one. They are attempting to point at literally anyone else but themselves, even when presented with all the evidence.
Um, Web, in that case, Roden would have visited me, and I'd have known about that.Hm, that's potentially valid.
Are you implying a Max/Jim scumteam, wuba? I really don't think they coulda faked that groupchat.Egan. I had to stop typing and close my eyes for a minute to process this because I am, frankly, astounded. Yes. I 100% believe that they are scum. I want you to realize this because I will be dead Tomorrow. I don't care which one we execute because both are scum. I will vote either one. They are attempting to point at literally anyone else but themselves, even when presented with all the evidence.
If we don't vote out one of Jim or Max Today, we're voting out me, so that I'm not responsible for giving everyone the exact answers on the quiz and then somehow watching the class fail.
Okay. I dislike that, but I can work with it I suppose. It's still very much putting all our eggs in one basket though.Honestly, I've been scumreading Jim all game, but that's a bad habit of mine, so you can take it with some grains of salt.
Why Jim over Max? I personally find Max the scummier of the two.
I'm really not convinced, but I do trust that you're town and you can totally strongarm me because eliminating someone other than your choice would require mafia cooperation. So "go off, king", I guess.No, I can be outvoted. I'm a strong voice, but I'm not unbeatable. (Mafia + Mafia + 2 Townies > You + Me + Me) I can't afford to not argue here.
Say that you want Jim, and I want Roden. Best case I convince two townies, it's 2 jim and 3 roden. Mafia gets to decide. My point isn't that you don't have to argue, it's that I can't really do much about if I think that you're tunneling town!jim.I'm really not convinced, but I do trust that you're town and you can totally strongarm me because eliminating someone other than your choice would require mafia cooperation. So "go off, king", I guess.No, I can be outvoted. I'm a strong voice, but I'm not unbeatable. (Mafia + Mafia + 2 Townies > You + Me + Me) I can't afford to not argue here.
Jim, this is a no-brainer for you: Why did no one die on Night 1 if Knightwing64 roleblocked Maximum Spin? That's, like, hella-sus, right? But, you seemed so adamant that it couldn't be Maximum Spin when it certainly could, yes?
The problem here is that there's no reason to look at Roden, since Maximum Spin has TWICE been roleblocked, and TWICE been "unaffected" by it.
Are you implying a Max/Jim scumteam, wuba? I really don't think they coulda faked that groupchat.Egan. I had to stop typing and close my eyes for a minute to process this because I am, frankly, astounded. Yes. I 100% believe that they are scum. I want you to realize this because I will be dead Tomorrow. I don't care which one we execute because both are scum. I will vote either one. They are attempting to point at literally anyone else but themselves, even when presented with all the evidence.
If we don't vote out one of Jim or Max Today, we're voting out me, so that I'm not responsible for giving everyone the exact answers on the quiz and then somehow watching the class fail.
Technically, it said "Lenglon's alignment is town." But you know, redirection.So there's an oddity in this statement. Namely, when I got my action's information about Web, it was phrased:
Trimmed down to the basics:
In order for me to think either is Town, they have to find the scum among the two of them.
I just think it's both of them.
It cannot be both of us. You cannot argue that I do nothing all game but I decide it is worth the effort to fake a six thousand word neighbor chat with Maximum Spin.I don't care. I'm not voting Roden because it's your job to convince ME not the other way around, and you won't even find the obvious scum on your own.
Egan... Deep breath for me... They are lying. It wouldn't be impossible to fake that. It would be easy even. And if you think they're not possibly lying, then you need to be ready for Tomorrow when you're fighting them alone.Trimmed down to the basics:
In order for me to think either is Town, they have to find the scum among the two of them.
I just think it's both of them.
It's exactly one of them and if it's both then they fucking earned it with that fake chat.
I dunno, maybe they're idiots?
Why would they both defend each other if they're not both scum?
They're not. Jim is better than this. Max was doing well, honestly, but he was trying to bait votes on literally anyone else, and Jim... HAS A SHAKERAGIAN ROLE and Max still wasn't going after him.I dunno, maybe they're idiots?
Why would they both defend each other if they're not both scum?
Egan... Deep breath for me... They are lying. It wouldn't be impossible to fake that. It would be easy even. And if you think they're not possibly lying, then you need to be ready for Tomorrow when you're fighting them alone.
In that case I'd actually prefer Jim protect Egan, because I think Egan is the most confirmed here but also could use the protection.Egan doesn't have two votes. If I live to Tomorrow, I will have three votes AND I can get two random Abilities from each of them AND I will have a revive.
I still would prefer Jim protect Egan, I do admit Jim protecting you works as well I suppose.It works better because then I verify everything said as opposed to Egan who has no role.
Wait, oh, I get it now. I wasn't thinking from your perspective. Yeah, I can see why that's the better option from your POV.? Literally how is that not better? The only way it isn't is if you think I am scum, which, again, is only possible if Egan and I are a team.
Or if one of your other abilities, which I haven't seen, let you copy tric's godfather ability. I don't give it a very big sliver of probability, but hey, let's acknowledge it.Wait, oh, I get it now. I wasn't thinking from your perspective. Yeah, I can see why that's the better option from your POV.? Literally how is that not better? The only way it isn't is if you think I am scum, which, again, is only possible if Egan and I are a team.
I do think that web is a better option because I don't have a role.You know, that's technically true, but I can't really prove that doesn't exist, and I can't even prove that all I did was that because everyone is way to skeptical for their own good. But, I'm here, willing to prove people are Town, and I'm just waiting on Jim, Max, Roden, and FoU to post to show it's allllll truuuuuuue.Or if one of your other abilities, which I haven't seen, let you copy tric's godfather ability. I don't give it a very big sliver of probability, but hey, let's acknowledge it.Wait, oh, I get it now. I wasn't thinking from your perspective. Yeah, I can see why that's the better option from your POV.? Literally how is that not better? The only way it isn't is if you think I am scum, which, again, is only possible if Egan and I are a team.
That's not my concern Egan. But again, it's fine. I actively want to not explain my reasoning here.Alright, here's another theory:
Web, I see your logic, and I do agree with the Jim protects Web plan.Well now I don't want it.
Fou: if a track is used on a player A, and player A targets players B and C with a single action, and A is redirected from C to B, such that B is now targeted twice by that single action, does the track see A visit B once or twice?A normal track will reveal which player or players the target visited. In the scenario you propose, the track would simply see A visit B in the redirection case, and see A visit B and C in the non-redirection case.
FoU: Does the user of Glass Lens (from Tric's flip) visit their target?Yes.
FoU: Could you please show an example result from Glass Lens (from Tric's flip) being used on a Townie?Night results: You performed your action.
I feel like a broken record here:That's cool and all, but it doesn't really matter. That's a fake possibility, not because it can't be true, but because that's more reason why they should be going after each other. It doesn't defend their actions but rather making fake boogeymen.
I have reason to believe that at least one of the mafia can double-action.
"Oi, look at me, I'm roight again, ain't I?!"Fou: if a track is used on a player A, and player A targets players B and C with a single action, and A is redirected from C to B, such that B is now targeted twice by that single action, does the track see A visit B once or twice?A normal track will reveal which player or players the target visited. In the scenario you propose, the track would simply see A visit B in the redirection case, and see A visit B and C in the non-redirection case.FoU: Does the user of Glass Lens (from Tric's flip) visit their target?Yes.FoU: Could you please show an example result from Glass Lens (from Tric's flip) being used on a Townie?Night results: You performed your action.
Day end results: playername's alignment is Town.
Alright, I asked FoU about the action failed thing. Are we voting after that?Pretty much, yeah. The big question is which one, Jim or Max?
Max! Max! We can force Jim into a no-win situation to have to protect me! Or he can kill me, which, let's be fair, he'll totally want to do!Alright, I asked FoU about the action failed thing. Are we voting after that?Pretty much, yeah. The big question is which one, Jim or Max?
@FoU: If Shakerag used his Night Action on a Player that was targeted by a Bus Action, which Action takes priority?As the Bus is interfering with Shakerag's action but Shakerag's action is not interfering with the Bus, the Bus takes priority in this scenario.
Alright, I asked FoU about the action failed thing. Are we voting after that?Alright, so using that action one someone who No Actioned or was Roleblocked wouldn't cause an "Action Failed", and would make me use up the shot. So something other than Max being blocked caused that Action Failed for me.
Um, I'm confused. Do you mean from N1? I thought that was about using your delayed roleblock action on Glass Lens? that was about targeting an action that is "destroyed".He never asked about a destroyed Action, did he? Probably should do that too, but I'm pretty sure that would also succeed.
I'm gonna go dunk my head in water for apparently completely forgetting what I even did on N1. Let's eject Max when I come back.I'm in, unless we want to wait for Roden, who has done jack all game.
initiating the hoodWhat are you talking about?
My POE is Roden/Maximum Spin in case nobody picked up on that.We are finally in an agreement about who you should be suspecting. I still think it's you and Max, but this is the correct PoE for you.
You'll fullclaim or you'll probably get executed.Feel free to vote me then!
Also, No Execute is literally not a possible move no matter who you think is scum.Yes, it is.
What are you confused about? Somebody made a hood. It's an ability.initiating the hoodWhat are you talking about?
My POE is Roden/Maximum Spin in case nobody picked up on that.We are finally in an agreement about who you should be suspecting. I still think it's you and Max, but this is the correct PoE for you.
For whatever reason Web thinks talking down to people makes them want to try harder instead of the complete opposite.No, I talk down to people because I feel like I'm dragging dead horses through the desert when I have to deal with them.
Roden. I don't know anything about any hood. I don't know what a hood is supposed to mean in the context of Mafia. I just plain don't get what on earth you're talking about here.Neighborhood. He's... just bad at talking.
Please. Give me some context. What are you talking about? When did what do what that does what now?
Seriously. Just... What?
I understand that. That's why, if it's true (and, again, I don't believe that, but that's why I'm making this small cut-out containing the possibility that I'm wrong.), I really do need you to be going after Maximum Spin. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to believe Roden is scum yet because he's, like, inexplicably pointless, but he's almost entirely counted for in all of his actions.My POE is Roden/Maximum Spin in case nobody picked up on that.We are finally in an agreement about who you should be suspecting. I still think it's you and Max, but this is the correct PoE for you.
I urge you to read the posts I did have energy for for why that is a vanishingly small probability.
I'd love to, but I'm afraid that may lose me the game. I realize that you haven't realized that yet, but that's because the best explanation I can give would get me banned. I think if you don't claim Today, you will 100% be voted out Today or Tomorrow. That's, like, not really something I can change on my own, because you haven't really self-assessed in a while, but I do promise that's the end goal of what happens.You'll fullclaim or you'll probably get executed.Feel free to vote me then!
The plan is so bad, that you can't possibly think Roden is scum.
He's just THAT unaware.
Egan_BW, I want to take a moment to say you've done a good job. It's unrelated to anything happening in the game at this moment, but you played well, even if you don't realize it. It's a bit of a stretch, but you might have solved the game by doing what you're doing, so keep it up. You'll probably realize after the game is over why that is, but I figured I'd get that in while we're waiting around here to see if Maximum Spin or Jim Groovester makes a case about the other first, and also because you infuriate me a lot less than Roden, and that's really the best part about you.
You know me, what with my insidious nature and snakelike demeanor!Egan_BW, I want to take a moment to say you've done a good job. It's unrelated to anything happening in the game at this moment, but you played well, even if you don't realize it. It's a bit of a stretch, but you might have solved the game by doing what you're doing, so keep it up. You'll probably realize after the game is over why that is, but I figured I'd get that in while we're waiting around here to see if Maximum Spin or Jim Groovester makes a case about the other first, and also because you infuriate me a lot less than Roden, and that's really the best part about you.
I've lurked, cast 0 votes, used my abilities, and gotten lucky with who I use them on. you tryin ta butter me up or summat
Egan, what you did was you confirmed not only yourself but Web as well. This created a 3-town voting bloc once you toss in me going to extremes to confirm myself as well, which is one of the most powerful things town can have.^Exactly this. Lenglon understands a lot of how powerful blocs can be. They can make or break the Town, and so you being a part of it is great. You're trying to keep Roden as a possibility, which is completely fine and justified, because I can easily tunnel, so it's a good thing to tell me I'm wrong.
I was gonna just use my info action N0, but decided that was too boring and instead gambled on giving double-actions-next-night to a random player. I really hit the jackpot with hitting a player who was not only town, but got a copy of the action too.Never let anyone convince you that Luck isn't a skill.
This moment is going to be such egg on my face if we mislynch by the way.Same! And it'll be even worse for me!
Hmm. Yup, definitely web-leng mafia.Braaaaaaaaains!
cowers in locked basement with shotgun.
Actually, no, Roden, Please just No-Action tonight if you are okay with that. I don't want you getting redirected in a troublesome way.We don't really know what he has, but I'm in agreement here. I'll use my Pithos on Roden and Jim.
Web, I trust you to remember the contents of my message to you last night so that you understand how the traps I mentioned work. You know your own kit so I trust you will avoid the potential mishap I'm warning Roden against.Nope, only to plan this time. Nothing fancy.
If you believe I'm scum, you must also believe Egan roleblocked me and destroyed my killing actions last night. Why, in that case, would I be the right lynch target?Because you attempted to quickhammer Jim Groovester.
... in what universe?If you believe I'm scum, you must also believe Egan roleblocked me and destroyed my killing actions last night. Why, in that case, would I be the right lynch target?Because you attempted to quickhammer Jim Groovester.
Darn, I was gonna flaunt how I could hammer with my totally real partner there. Lousy cooking distracting me.go both ways, or does sarcasm only apply to you?
To me? that means nothing. I had to ask FoU some details about the mafiakill in relation to my 1-shot, and the very reason that it can delay said 1-shot is also why what you just said doesn't matter.Oh. Okay, what's even the point of Egan's power in that case? Just a red herring? Nobody's claimed any town kills.
The mafiakill is factional. It is not "possessed" by a player, and is simply "accessible" to them. As such it does not count towards "your" abilities, and so even though "your" killing abilities might not be available, the factional mafiakill still is.
If you believe I'm scum, you must also believe Egan roleblocked me and destroyed my killing actions last night. Why, in that case, would I be the right lynch target?There's a lot of reasons to vote you, but I'll give you why I think you are the better execution. The others might have different ideas, so you might need to ask them.
Max, why, at that time, were you willing to rule out a Lenglon/Webaddict scumteam?... in what universe?If you believe I'm scum, you must also believe Egan roleblocked me and destroyed my killing actions last night. Why, in that case, would I be the right lynch target?Because you attempted to quickhammer Jim Groovester.
Who's the fourth vote that never showed up in that hypothetical? Doesn't this:Darn, I was gonna flaunt how I could hammer with my totally real partner there. Lousy cooking distracting me.go both ways, or does sarcasm only apply to you?
Or to put it in stronger terms, if I attempted to quickhammer Jim Groovester, why didn't it happen?
I'm trying to think about who you could validly pair me with here. Jim, okay, fine, yes, I probably would put my partner at -1 as a gambit if I thought it'd work to make you back off, but who else? Roden, like you told Jim? That seems to be the only other answer that fits your argument. Roden wasn't there when that happened! If I were in a scumchat with him, I'd have to know that I couldn't have hammered then. I guess you can always imagine that you were just quick enough to save the day and foil the plan, but that's your own ego talking: you did exactly what I wanted.
Max, why, at that time, were you willing to rule out a Lenglon/Webaddict scumteam?
I was online at that very time, your action was setting ME up to be able to quickhammer Jim, by your own logic. Why did you trust ME and my constant posting to not quickhammer him?
Or even a simpler: Why were you 100% certain that I was not scum at the time you put Jim at Hammer -1?
I don't even have to be paired with Web there. It could be Lenglon/Roden. Or just simply Lenglon/Anyone-that-isn't-Jim.I wasn't. I just don't generally think scum are dumb enough to quickhammer in a night-based game. I was literally interested in disputing and disproving web's whole premise.
You knowing put Jim at Hammer -1, while I was actively there and posting, at MYLO, because you were sure I wouldn't just win the game there and then assuming that I'm scum?It wouldn't win you the game there and then, you'd still have to kill in the night.
Really?
I, as scum, would, frankly, never do something so brazenly stupid as quickhammer on what could be the very last day to have to get through. You'd have to be reeeeeeally dumb to do something like that when you don't know what will happen in the night that could easily ruin you on the brink of victory. I'm bold, not pointlessly self-destructive. I'm genuinely pissed that either of you think I would.You knowing put Jim at Hammer -1, while I was actively there and posting, at MYLO, because you were sure I wouldn't just win the game there and then assuming that I'm scum?It wouldn't win you the game there and then, you'd still have to kill in the night.
Really?
Web, again, please pay very close attention to what I gave you last night when you are sending in your action for the night. If you are careful with your action it will very much help tomorrow. I am currently concerned that I wasn't specific enough at the time. My request to you is not at all the same as my request to Roden, and there is a reason for that.I goooooot it. I promise. I know exactly what you mean.
(0) webadict:
(0) Lenglon:
(0) Roden:
(0) Egan_BW:
(4) Maximum Spin: Lenglon, Egan_BW, webadict, webadict
(0) Jim Groovester:
(1) No Execution: Roden
(2) Not Voting: Maximum Spin, Jim Groovester
4 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
idle game(mafia):
(Auto) Incremental Blood Upgrades: This ability has a reserve of 1 Blood currently, and harvests 1 Blood every time a player dies. Once per Night, you may pay 2 Blood to upgrade any ability you can accurately name, at the end of the Night. These upgrades will improve the ability’s effectiveness in a minor, random fashion.
(Day / Auto) Incremental Gold Counter [target/self]: This ability contains 1 Gold currently, but gains 1 Gold every time you, or any player you have used Multiplayer on, are visited by any player other than yourself. If you use this ability as a Day action: spend 3 Gold to give your targeted player or yourself one of the two different Gilded abilities from the below list. A Gilded ability upgraded using Incremental Blood Upgrades will also gain an additional shot.Quote-(Info) (1-Shot, Night) Gilded Aegis [target]: With your golden shield, you protect your target from up to one kill or disable action used this Night. However, they do not receive any results from investigative abilities they use this Night due to the shield’s blinding glare.(1-Shot, Night) Multiplayer [target]: You add your target to your game - causing you to learn your target’s entire role. You also gain a private Discord chat with them.
-(Info) (1-Shot, Add-On) Gilded Orb: You empower one action you use with your golden orb, making it unblockable and un-redirectable. If the action you use is a kill action, the orb’s power ensures it bypasses protect-type actions. This orb’s great power allows you to use a disabled action if you pair it with this ability.
S.H.A.M.E.(town):
(Auto) Outrageously Infectious: As a sapient virus specialized in chaos, you’re quite capable of spreading yourself all over the place. Whenever you visit a player and/or are visited by a player, that player gains the status “Latent Disease" if they do not already possess a “Disease” status, at the end of the Night. If they already possess “Latent Disease”, it is transformed into the “Active Disease” status, at the end of the Night. Since you are naturally aware of your own existence, you learn what players possess any “Disease” status at the start of each Day. You’re incredibly difficult to stamp out - if this ability is disabled or removed from your role, create a copy of it and add the copy to your role.
(Night) Hallucinate [target]: You whisper and smirk into your target’s mind. Compose a message - the message is sent to your target anonymously. If they currently possess a “Disease” status, you also learn if they attempted to perform only a single action this Night, and if they did, you also learn if that action was fully successful. If they currently possess the “Active Disease” status, you also disable whatever action they used until the end of the next Night after it resolves.
(1-Shot, Night) Fatal Finale - Body Breakdown [target]: You accelerate the deterioration of your target’s body. This action fails (but refunds its shot) if used on someone without a “Disease” status. If they possess a “Disease” status, transform it into the “Terminal Disease” status. This action counts as a kill action.Quote(Info) (Status) Latent Disease: Something grows within you. This status currently does nothing.
(Info) (Status) Active Disease: Something wracks your body. If you visit someone without a “Disease” status, or someone without a "Disease" status visits you, they gain the “Latent Disease” status immediately.
(Info) (Status) Terminal Disease: Something is destroying you from within. If you use an action, excluding the factional Mafiakill, it is permanently disabled after it resolves. If an auto ability you possess resolves its effect, it is permanently disabled after it resolves. If all your abilities are currently disabled, you die after any Day ends, after the execution.
(0) webadict:
(0) Roden:
(0) Egan_BW:
(0) Jim Groovester:
(6) Not Voting: webadict, webadict, webadict, Roden, Egan_BW, Jim Groovester
4 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
Alright. It should be my bed time and I have work tomorrow, so don't expect much for the next, eh, 20 hours?I don't plan on hammering without just cause, so you should be fine.
There is also something that I am VERY SAD I didn't get the opportunity to do on Night 3 but it is related to my auto that I still will not claim anything about.What part of this being essentially lylo makes you think that you can not claim something?
Well, I sure wouldn't. So, it'd be better to claim, wouldn't it?
Roden
Actually, no, Egan didn't do anything wrong.
Unvote
I mean was there any real chance you were going to come into today accusing Web or EganWell, I sure wouldn't. So, it'd be better to claim, wouldn't it?
Maybe.
But win or lose, I'm sure I'll enjoy the outcome either way.
So I'm not going to claim.
:)
You can trust me that it's completely irrelevant to the outcome of this game, however. Unless you decide to make it relevant, which you are perfectly entitled to do.RodenActually, no, Egan didn't do anything wrong.
Unvote
Regardless of whatever role stuff can be gleaned from today's night action results I think it's you.
I'll just vote for you and let the game be decided by webadict's hunch.
Roden.
pfp: I suppose it's plausible that max had a lot of time to chat with jim in neighborchat because roden wasn't active in scumchat.Entirely possible. The Neighbor Ability is quite obnoxious.
Hmmmm it's almost like you made the game unbearable because your ego is greater than your social skillsWell, you know me. Game recognizing game.
I mean was there any real chance you were going to come into today accusing Web or EganWell, I'm literally proven Town, sooooo.
Not really.Jim what did you do this game
webadict is basically confirmed town since he has the votes to get his way or tie.
Egan_BW is not confirmed town, but Egan_BW has solid night action back up and you haven't really done anything of note.
Not really.Well, if Egan_BW is scum, then he's the best scum there ever was, since he could've gotten me good Yesterday, and he's pretty solidly done Town Actions.
webadict is basically confirmed town since he has the votes to get his way or tie.
Egan_BW is not confirmed town, but Egan_BW has solid night action back up and you haven't really done anything of note.
Either way my actions every night were accounted for and Jim's weren'tThis is true, and the only person backing him up was Maximum Spin, who was scum, so this is a solid point.
Jim claimed to have a protect this whole time and instead of using it just Tracked me twice in a row and didn't give results until I claimed my targets and my targets confirmed that I visited them
Either way my actions every night were accounted for and Jim's weren't
Jim claimed to have a protect this whole time and instead of using it just Tracked me twice in a row and didn't give results until I claimed my targets and my targets confirmed that I visited them
Jim what did you do this game
Except avoid actually posting and trying to hide your tone through letting Max talk for you
I'm assuming you're pretty wracked here, but I did have an issue in that I wanted you to go after Roden or Max Yesterday, and I didn't see that. Mind answering why?
Don't like voting in MYLO and I wanted to check if the hood was real.
I don't think it's particularly difficult to fake chat logs ahead of time if you're running a neighborhood fake gambit and expecting people to ask for proof.
Also Jim is claiming abilities that other people also have. From a balance perspective, it makes no sense for two townies to have access to extra votes.
Jim + Roden: Which of you should we vote to make wuba lose?
Saying Max killed every night is wrong because he got Roleblocked on Night 2 and the kill still happened, which is a night I had a confirmed action with my Track.Max didn't get Roleblocked Night 2, because he didn't lose his role. Nothing in his role protects him from Egan's Action, like he claimed.
If anyone actually believes town got two extra vote abilities then yikes I guess.
Wait when did I frame you Web?Frame is perhaps overstating it. You immediately claimed I targeted Shakerag Day 3. It's something you could've known as scum if Shakerag didn't target me if you had perhaps gotten roleblocked?
My hypothesis is that if Max was planning to add a second person to neighbor chat on N2 but was blocked, it would have made sense for him and Jim to have been chatting in there to 'confirm' themselves to whoever the target was.The other hypothesis I have is that Roden randomized me with my Ability and never claimed it.This wouldn't require an additional Action, but it would be something that modifies his stolen Action, and it certainly looks bad if he can't force a biy on you.
This would mean that Max had the option on N0 to add his scum partner to neighborchat, add a townie to neighborchat, or do nothing. I'd say it's in character for him to do the former, right?
Also, Egan, if it's somehow you, well played.Likewise~
(0) webadict:
(4) Roden: Jim Groovester, webadict, webadict, Egan_BW
(0) Egan_BW:
(1) Jim Groovester: Roden
(1) Not Voting: webadict
4 votes on a single player will hammer and immediately end the Day. Stop talking if this occurs.
If the deadline is reached, whoever has the most votes on them will be executed, but you all (other than the executed player) may continue talking until the moderator has arrived to resolve the execution.
The Prospector(mafia):
(Night) Gold In Them Cards! [target]: You aggressively mine for gold in your opponent’s cards, stealing a random ability from their role and adding it to yours. However, if you accurately name an ability they possess, that ability is mined for gold and stolen instead of a random one. If you hit the same player with this action more than once, your gold digging is too blatant, and they gain “(Auto) Gold: Useless, worthless gold.”
(Night) That Hound Of Mine [target]: You track your target with your bloodhound, learning what player or players they visited this Night. If your alignment is Mafia, you may choose to treat this ability as a Mafiakill ability when you use it - and have your bloodhound additionally kill your target.
(2-Shot, Auto) Dagnabit - My Mule!: If you would be hit by an action that removes abilities from your role, disables abilities in your role, or is a kill action, it fails and the player possessing that ability gains “(Auto) Gold: Useless, worthless gold.” - as your mule takes the hit for you.
(Day, Free) Chaos [target]: Remove the status “Released Evil” from your target if they have it. If “Released Evil” is removed, their action targeting is randomized the next Night.
What did you like most about the setup?
What did you dislike the most about the setup?
What did you like most about your role?
What did you dislike the most about your role?
What would have improved the setup?
What advice do you have for future BYOR moderators?
What other comments would you like to make?
Should self-voting be removed from Beginner games?
I don’t think that was a beginner friendly game.It wasn't and that is completely my bad. The complexity scale was a tad bit too high.
I’d say this was a pretty good introduction to what mafia is like hereAnd yet this remains fairly accurate. It definitely should have been toned down in some areas though.
I’d say this was a pretty good introduction to what mafia is like here
Was Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
I don’t think that was a beginner friendly game.Neither do I.
Was Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
No: TricMagic
Was Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
No: TricMagic
Yes: Knightwing64
QuoteWas Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
No: TricMagic
Night 0 turned into RVS night followed by laborious mechanical discussion. Also, note that just cause someone has a godfather role that doesn't always make them mafia in BYOR games. And yeah, I was asking for it, but still.
Optional survey
What did you like most about the setup?
- There were a lot of opportunities for the scum to fakeclaim and hide behind mech info.
What did you dislike the most about the setup?
- There were a few random elements that made this less beginner friendly than some. I think that alone would improve everything. Additionally, Lylobreakers should be avoided in a Beginner game as well, since looking for ways for the scum to win off of that might be a bit much (And, again, makes the Day game less important.)
What did you like most about your role?
- Used Salesman vibe was a great tone for the role name.
What did you dislike the most about your role?
- My role had too strong of an incentive to NOT buy from it. Additionally, Players didn't really receive a real reason to buy, either. I think having a better reason to buy on the player's part would make for a better role. Additionally, avoid using too strong of changes to the Day game (Permanent extra votes are typically bad.)
What would have improved the setup?
- Remove N0, faster processing of actions. Night 0 works against the intended beginner teaching elements, though it does allow everyone to be able to at least use their Actions. I think it might be better to use specific Night 0 Actions, like how Max's role was setup.
What advice do you have for future BYOR moderators?
- Day Actions are the hardest to deal with. Don't add them recklessly. In fact, avoid using them ever.
What other comments would you like to make?
- Ummm... None.
Should self-voting be removed from Beginner games?
- YES. PLEASE. IT'S NOT USEFUL!
I suppose that needs to be added to the survey too.QuoteWas Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
I want to play simpler mafia games.I kinda agree with this take, though I'm not sure what constitutes the simpler aspect (I disagree with that portion, probably.)
One of the biggest turn offs for playing a complicated setup like this (beginner) setup is that reasoning through night and role results is draining and it's stressful if the analysis isn't fruitful, which is already likely to happen if everybody is telling the truth and almost a certainty if anybody lies or omits something.
I gather that some people like it but it's not my thing.
Anyways, good game. Also good job webadict and the rest of the town for carrying hard while I carried water for the scumteam again.I suppose that needs to be added to the survey too.QuoteWas Night 0 better or worse for the game than traditional RVS?
I hate it. It was awful. It turned Day 1 into Day 2 but without any Day 1 reads.
I like being able to make a read after somebody's first post, whether it's right or wrong. In this game it was just role result role result role result role result for Day 1 and 80% of the rest of the game.
I think the previous way of doing beginner games was sufficient, and having a couple of different setups made it slightly less formulaic.I think we found that the old method didn't attract as many new players as we were hoping, and personally, I kinda like a little more chaos than normal.
I think possibly we should work from that rather than having everyone as a PR.
3 scum with no abilities, all vanilla townies but 1, who is either a doc or a cop.
And to be fair, the ones I at least played in were plauged by Extends
You did play a BM NJW, I was in it being a horrible person.I wasn't that pleasant to interact with then, I suspect... teenage years.
Banning self voting is restrictive. There are situations where a player would want to self-vote, such as outted scum at L-1 to end discussions preemptively.Self-voting is somewhat fine in non-Beginner games. In a Beginner game, voting yourself is almost always bad. I think it'd be better to just have the scum be able to surrender one of themselves by internal vote, since that's the only decent use of the self-voting.
Banning self voting loses creativity. Look at how scum!Roden voted themselves in this game to appear more town.
Banning self voting is restrictive. There are situations where a player would want to self-vote, such as outted scum at L-1 to end discussions preemptively.Note that Roden voted himself to mimic the two town players that self-voted earlier. Blending in, yes. But it only had a precedent within the game space.
Banning self voting loses creativity. Look at how scum!Roden voted themselves in this game to appear more town.
There have been newbie-friendly games in the more recent past like IcyTea's Vanilla Tea Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174411.msg8005541#msg8005541) in which every player had a power, but were still very unlike the past few BBYORs. That game had a strong focus on reads, and even when it didn't, the mechanical analysis involved was far less complex and still did not directly out scum. It could not be considered a bastard game, the roles had a certain logic, and newer players weren't forced to consider godfathers, millers, etc. Perhaps it would be possible to create a BYOR resembling that game.This is a good thing to consider.
I kinda agree with this take, though I'm not sure what constitutes the simpler aspect (I disagree with that portion, probably.)Night 0 was an experiment that had to happen at least once, given how people complained so much about RVS.
But, Jim's kinda right. Night 0 made things very tech focused, and I think the end goal is to make it more Day-oriented. Maybe a lot of this was to stop thinking so hard about the tech and to focus on the ex(ecutes). This does push a very specific version of Mafia, but it leaves the Beginner aspect behind. We SHOULD be pushing a Day focus, but I don't think we should leave the Night game out of that entirely. If there was a good way to balance that, it'd be for the best, but... I'd say there probably isn't an easy way.
It did feel like the game was moving simultaneously too fast and too slow at the same time, and the whiplash hurt.
I think the previous way of doing beginner games was sufficient, and having a couple of different setups made it slightly less formulaic.
I think possibly we should work from that rather than having everyone as a PR.