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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: EuchreJack on July 29, 2022, 08:34:07 am

Title: Armed Forces Mafia - Game Over Mafia Win!
Post by: EuchreJack on July 29, 2022, 08:34:07 am
Greetings grunts!

EuchreJack wants YOU for his Armed Forces Mafia!

Join today!

All recruits will be provided with a 1-shot bulletproof vest and 1-shot gun.  These are NOT to be used during the Day Phase. Some recruits will be provided different equipment as mission parameters dictate.
Two recruits have improperly requisitioned equipment for unknown reasons and are seeking to undermine the mission. Command refers to them as Mafia. They are suspected to have additional killing power during the Night Phase.

Days will be 72 hours, Nights 24 hours, Hammers are in effect, no shortens, no extensions.

Signups:
1) Knightwing
2) Jim Groovester
3) notquitethere
4) Maximum Spin
5) webadict
6) Lidku
7) NJW2000
8) ToonyMan
9) Lenglon

Night Action Resolution Order:
 Copy
 Hide
 Bus Drive
 Block
 Redirect
 Protect
 Miscellaneous
 Kill
 Recruit
 Inspect
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (0/9)
Post by: Knightwing64 on July 29, 2022, 09:00:50 am
IN

I like mafia,


Give me cool equipment because I’m awesome
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (0/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 29, 2022, 11:30:12 am
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhm any other details about the setup? What am I walking into here?

Are there lynches? Day phases? Night phases? A mafia? A two player mafia? A mafia nightkill? Are the 1-shot guns night kills? Are they day kills? 48 hour days? 72 hour days? Hammers? Extensions? Shortens? Rules about eliminating webadict, Shakerag, or FallacyofUrist and a prescribed time to do so?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (2/9)
Post by: notquitethere on July 29, 2022, 01:19:09 pm
Reporting for duty!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (3/9)
Post by: Maximum Spin on July 29, 2022, 01:36:05 pm
In
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (4/9)
Post by: webadict on August 04, 2022, 11:53:24 am
In, ugh, let's just gooooo.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (5/9)
Post by: RoseHeart on August 04, 2022, 11:51:35 pm
PTW
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (5/9)
Post by: Lidku on August 05, 2022, 03:08:50 am
I'm in this. Sounds like an interesting theme.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (6/9)
Post by: EuchreJack on August 05, 2022, 01:45:41 pm
I could consider running this with 7, but the death count is likely to be high...
I'm also super busy next week, so I don't mind waiting for 9.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (6/9)
Post by: RoseHeart on August 08, 2022, 11:12:04 am
I super suck at actually playing Mafia, I enjoy it, I just can't keep up with it consistently, and frankly even when 'do' I don't know what the hell is going on.

If literally a warm body is all you need, then consider me a reserve.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (7/9)
Post by: EuchreJack on August 08, 2022, 10:10:31 pm
IN

Thanks for signing up!  :P

So, should I try to run this with 7, or wait for 9?

Actually, I think I'll wait until I either get 9, or Beginner BYOR Mafia reaches Day 2.  Several players are IN both games.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (7/9)
Post by: RoseHeart on August 09, 2022, 11:41:43 am
Probably best if I am used as a replacement for someone who left, when the difference of my replacement would mean if the game could continue or not. Hate to start in some pivotal role and ruin the game. I am a slow reader, I am busy, I have anxiety. I'm like the perfect shit storm.

Not unwilling mind you. But the best experience I've contributed to one of these on Bay 12, has been making art lol.

Edit: Alright, it will all work out. I'm ready.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (7/9)
Post by: RoseHeart on August 10, 2022, 04:59:40 am
I'm in a shitty headspace, in someways it's getting better, but best not to push it. PTW only.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (7/9)
Post by: EuchreJack on August 10, 2022, 11:13:26 pm
Don't worry: I'm much too busy to even consider starting until next week.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (7/9)
Post by: NJW2000 on August 15, 2022, 01:28:01 pm
In. Should be less busy now.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (8/9)
Post by: EuchreJack on August 15, 2022, 03:56:38 pm
Awesome.  I guess it's almost time to decide when to start.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (8/9)
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2022, 12:21:14 pm
In.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (8/9)
Post by: EuchreJack on August 19, 2022, 03:51:15 am
Huzzah, we have Nine!
Baking will begin. We'll start sometime in the weekend.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (7/9)
Post by: RoseHeart on August 20, 2022, 05:06:00 am
PTW only.
As last stated, count me out.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9)
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 20, 2022, 09:13:13 am
Ooof
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9)
Post by: webadict on August 20, 2022, 10:07:49 am
We'll immediately vote out RoseHeart Day 1, just start the game plz.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (8/8)
Post by: EuchreJack on August 20, 2022, 01:33:28 pm
Fuck it, I'll just run with Eight.  The guns should even things out...
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (8/8) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 20, 2022, 03:51:33 pm
I'll go on your replacement list. And if who I replace is Rose thats fine.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (8/8) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 20, 2022, 03:53:00 pm
Just general heads up that i will probably be lower energy than usual this time though.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (8/8) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 20, 2022, 06:37:20 pm
Just general heads up that i will probably be lower energy than usual this time though.
Great, we're up to Nine Again!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 20, 2022, 10:23:46 pm
Roles are being distributed, please wait until the game starts to post!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 20, 2022, 10:48:09 pm
Mission Briefing:
Attention: Recruit

Subject: Mission Infamous Glory

Your Team will be inserted into a wilderness area, 40 clicks away from an Enemy Transmitter.  You will advance and destroy the Enemy Transmitter during the Day.  Upon mission completion, Your Team will be allowed liberty during the Night.

WARNING: Two of your team are suspected of Treasonous Behavior.  We'll leave it up to you to Vote which member of your team should be Interrogated.

Mission Infamous Glory is set to begin at 0600 Hours EST. (approximately 6 hours 13 minutes from now)  Maintain operational silence until that time.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 21, 2022, 09:18:30 am
GO GO GO!!!!!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 09:33:22 am
SPC Lenglon internally sighs, knowing that she has to deal with these absurd whims of her mindless platoon sergeant, and gets moving at a controlled jog, having every intent of slowing to a walk the moment she's out of sight of the asshole who thinks people will sprint 40 km nonstop while carrying a full load of equipment, and for the meantime she just focuses on her breathing.

Once she's in the clear and had a chance to her breath, she takes a moment to assess the gear of her squadmates, not expecting to find anything out of place, but knowing it's worth checking just in case.

"Hey Knightwing, who you plannin on shooting in the back this time?"
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 10:16:17 am
Alright maggots, give me your personal lists of how easy it is to read each player ASAP.

Here's mine:

Difficult
Jim
Web
NJW

Not Sure Yet
Max
Lidku
Lenglon

Will confirm their alignment in their first post
NQT
Knightwing


Lt. Toony finishes their completely appropriate demands. Secretly he feels Lenglon is town, but doesn't have the nerve to say that after stating they are not confident about them yet. Toony thinks Lenglon roleplaying shows casual playfulness of a town member, and their question towards Knightwing is exactly what he would do, to get a good check on a player you'd want to see post early.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 10:21:11 am
"Sure, I don't trust my ability to read Jim, Web, NJW, Max, NQT, or Toony, while I think Knightwing and Lidku are readable."
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 21, 2022, 10:26:16 am
Here's mine:

Difficult
Jim
Web Toony
NJW

Not Sure Yet
Max
Lidku
Lenglon

Will confirm their alignment in their first post
NQT
Knightwing

also my rations taste like soap.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 10:29:59 am
Lenglon sighs

"Web, they always taste like soap. That's what the little condiment packet of hot sauce is for."
"I'm surprised you didn't ask anyone any questions Web. Why is that?"
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 21, 2022, 11:26:04 am
sarge told me not to ask questions so i dont and then he stops yelling at me
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 21, 2022, 12:01:20 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAflSAaJ1bQ

DUNCE SNAKE Jim adjusts his SNEAKING SUIT equipment as he prepares to INFILTRATE OUTER HEAVEN trek across the wilderness to destroy METAL GEAR the enemy transmitter.

Alright maggots, give me your personal lists of how easy it is to read each player ASAP.

Okay.

Impossible
ToonyMan
webadict

Difficult
notquitethere
Maximum Spin

Probably not that difficult but I'll still fuck it up anyway
Knightwing64

No idea but probably difficult
Lenglon
NJW2000
Lidku



Now that I've done that,

why?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 21, 2022, 12:13:55 pm
I can't wait to show off what an effective and cohesive fighting force we are by inflicting casualties before we ever reach the enemy.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 21, 2022, 01:58:16 pm
@Jim

Difficult
Max - I can't read them.
Lenglon (I think) - I only played one game with them afaik, but their town strategy seems to be extreme and sometimes unreasonable D1 aggression, followed by attempting to control the flow of conversation in later days. It's very easily imitated as scum.
Toonyman - just a very strong and mature player, very difficult to read.

Medium
Web - I usually butt heads with him, but it only ever really spirals out of control if we're opposite alignments. Seldom to my advantage. Sidenote: Web is good. So never Easy.
Jim - He's pretty experienced, but I did read him in two posts last game. I don't think he'll let that happen twice though.
Lidku - something of a natural, but doesn't have the experience some players here have.

Easy
NQT (I think) - only played a few games with them, but there's a kind of natural innocence that let me get an easy townread on them in Demon mafia.
Knightwing - yeah, I think we all know the tells by now.



-
RP disguises tone. How long are you going to keep this up?



Lidku: Under what circumstances would you shoot someone N1?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 21, 2022, 01:59:30 pm
Wait, sorry, that was for Toony. Have both of you been screwing around with avatars?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 02:39:55 pm
The fuck is this Web? Give me 20!

why?
To stroke my ego.

Seriously though, it helps me gauge player's reads of others when their own self-confidence is stated and it's a neat topic starter! Thought of it myself before the game began.

Wait, sorry, that was for Toony. Have both of you been screwing around with avatars?
I wouldn't change during a game.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 21, 2022, 02:47:04 pm
SPC Lenglon internally sighs, knowing that she has to deal with these absurd whims of her mindless platoon sergeant, and gets moving at a controlled jog, having every intent of slowing to a walk the moment she's out of sight of the asshole who thinks people will sprint 40 km nonstop while carrying a full load of equipment, and for the meantime she just focuses on her breathing.

Once she's in the clear and had a chance to her breath, she takes a moment to assess the gear of her squadmates, not expecting to find anything out of place, but knowing it's worth checking just in case.

"Hey Knightwing, who you plannin on shooting in the back this time?"

What are you talking about, Lenglon? I’m afraid I don’t take well to slander.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 02:55:48 pm
Lenglon weathers Knightwing's rather impressive bellow unflinchingly, having had to put up with worse from sergeants in the past, and gives him a glare in response

"Yeah, no. You don't get to brush that 'training accident' under the rug that easy. How're you planning to make sure you shoot the right target this time?"

((also please don't use bold red when you aren't voting))
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 21, 2022, 03:48:04 pm
The fuck is this Web? Give me 20!
ok sir
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 21, 2022, 03:51:49 pm
“Ey, That was a while ago. Let bygones be bygones”
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 03:57:53 pm
"So you don't have any plan at all?"
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 21, 2022, 03:59:49 pm
Lidku: Under what circumstances would you shoot someone N1?

Considering that our rifles only have 1 bullet only, I would only save it for someone I absolutely find suspicious; AND only if they're going under the radar of Town and everyone for some reason doesn't suspect them.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 21, 2022, 04:04:08 pm
nightwing talking in red makes people mad kinda like bulls so dont do it
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 21, 2022, 04:06:39 pm
I'm only just going to list who I find the most difficult to read. I don't think it's really worth it to list "moderate" or "easy" reads. It might be detrimental long-term later.
 
Difficult
--------------------
Webadict - For as long as I've been playing Mafia recently, webadict has been the DM for the majority of games I've been in. So it is hard to read someone who's in an inherently neutral position.

NJW - Very neutral in posting demeanor and very lowkey.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 21, 2022, 04:07:13 pm
Lidku: Under what circumstances would you shoot someone N1?

Considering that our rifles only have 1 bullet only, I would only save it for someone I absolutely find suspicious; AND only if they're going under the radar of Town and everyone for some reason doesn't suspect them.
So you would only shoot someone nobody else suspected?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 21, 2022, 04:12:18 pm
Lidku: Under what circumstances would you shoot someone N1?

Considering that our rifles only have 1 bullet only, I would only save it for someone I absolutely find suspicious; AND only if they're going under the radar of Town and everyone for some reason doesn't suspect them.
So you would only shoot someone nobody else suspected?

Yes, because a Mafia who stays under the radar and nobody suspects them, nets a high chance of Town losing. And that would be the best efficient use of the 1-Kill everyone has; because after that, besides the bullet-proof vest, you become regular town.

Though this all predicates on someone I strongly suspect is Mafia to begin with, and I'm usually very conservative on who I begin to suspect.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 21, 2022, 04:34:09 pm
I fought in war (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MhMODbr-p4), my brothers in arms! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhdFe3evXpk)

List of Who Is Hard To Read

I Tend To Read As They're Town Without Good Enough Reason
Toony
Knightwing

I Tend To Read As Scum Without Good Enough Reason
Max
Web

I Think I Have Successfully Read In The Past
Jim
NJW

Unknown Quantity
Lidku

We've played together in the past but I have no memory of any meta
Lenglon



Spoiler: Some Theorising (click to show/hide)



Lidku, how would you characterise your mafia playstyle?

Stay frosty Sergeant Lenglon, what kind of foe do you think we're facing?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 04:43:18 pm
"I am NOT a Sarent. You see the ice-cream cone rank patch? S. P. C. Talk to me when you need something and know how to not ask questions bout how you got it."

"Anyways, I think it's too early ter tell wha we're facing. Rih now I'm jus lookin an seein wha I see. Ask me again later an I'll ave a better answer fer ya."
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 04:50:42 pm
Hmm, I like your spunk NQT. You went above and beyond the call of duty with extra categories of reads.

I'm gonna say NQT is town. Knigtwing is probably town too though I need to see non-roleplay posts.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 21, 2022, 04:59:48 pm
Aww, I didn't get to be scum again this time.

I don't like roleplay, so Knightwing and Lenglon are clearly the mafia.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 21, 2022, 05:00:30 pm
Lidku, how would you characterise your mafia playstyle?

I've only ever been Mafia once, so I'd say I haven't really developed a particular "Mafia playstyle". I was and still am a complete noob, Town or Mafia-wise.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 21, 2022, 05:12:04 pm
Yes, because a Mafia who stays under the radar and nobody suspects them, nets a high chance of Town losing. And that would be the best efficient use of the 1-Kill everyone has; because after that, besides the bullet-proof vest, you become regular town.

Though this all predicates on someone I strongly suspect is Mafia to begin with, and I'm usually very conservative on who I begin to suspect.
Hm. So if a handful of players you thought were town were also suspicious of the player, you wouldn't shoot them?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 21, 2022, 05:13:09 pm
I've only ever been Mafia once, so I'd say I haven't really developed a particular "Mafia playstyle". I was and still am a complete noob, Town or Mafia-wise.
Actually I meant the opposite, what's your playstyle for mafia-the-game-not-mafia-the-role. Or more clearly: how do you intend to catch scum? Scum tells? Slips? Night actions? Sheeping a player you think is town? What else?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 21, 2022, 05:26:29 pm
Hm. So if a handful of players you thought were town were also suspicious of the player, you wouldn't shoot them?

There would be no point of wasting a bullet on someone the majority of Town suspects. By that point it is likely that the Town will vote them off naturally.

how do you intend to catch scum? Scum tells? Slips? Night actions? Sheeping a player you think is town? What else?

I used to mostly just go by mechanics, but that was because in the BYOR games I've been playing. In those games it's intentional for everyone to have unbalanced abilities, unlike a default game that has more balanced roles.

Now I do a mix of looking at mechanics and posting behavior.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 05:30:27 pm
"Hey, NQT, seems like lots a folks think they can read you easy. Whys' that?"
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 21, 2022, 05:57:01 pm
I used to mostly just go by mechanics, but that was because in the BYOR games I've been playing. In those games it's intentional for everyone to have unbalanced abilities, unlike a default game that has more balanced roles.

Now I do a mix of looking at mechanics and posting behavior.
Can you think of any posting behaviour that scum did in a game that afterwards was obvious (even if you didn't see it at the time)?

"Hey, NQT, seems like lots a folks think they can read you easy. Whys' that?"
Captain NQT sits down, and muses over the question while picking at the seam on his bullet-proof vest.

"I can think of two recent incidents... there was when I was the leader of a valiant division (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373262#msg8373262) and through my forthrightness and direct dealing with my troop, I establish an easy rapport and trust early. That cohesion won the day.

"And then there was the time I proposed a risky battle strategy (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180078.msg8393588#msg8393588), which involved leaking some plans to the enemy in exchange for momentum on the battlefield. People sure as hell didn't like my plan, but it established my credibility in some of their eyes and our side swiftly won the day regardless.

"That enough intelligence for you?"
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 21, 2022, 06:00:33 pm
( I like roleplay, it’s fun)

You accusing me of being a traitor, Max? Well you are darn tooting wrong, and I have the badges to prove it.


Knightwing64 shoves a Medal of Honor at Max, asserting dominance over the haters
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 21, 2022, 07:23:26 pm
I Tend To Read As Scum Without Good Enough Reason
Max
Web
its ok im good guy i only fite bad guys my gun doesnt even have rael bullets

( I like roleplay, it’s fun)

You accusing me of being a traitor, Max? Well you are darn tooting wrong, and I have the badges to prove it.


Knightwing64 shoves a Medal of Honor at Max, asserting dominance over the haters
whoa a metal? how do i get a metal captain?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 21, 2022, 07:34:54 pm
You do good.

Knightwing64 dispenses some wisdom for the youngling
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 21, 2022, 07:37:30 pm
Lenglon: Are you roleplaying in this game because you want to be more lowkey/"low energy (http://link=topic=180168.msg8400627#msg8400627)" this time around?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 08:25:28 pm
"I can think of two recent incidents... there was when I was the leader of a valiant division (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373262#msg8373262) and through my forthrightness and direct dealing with my troop, I establish an easy rapport and trust early. That cohesion won the day.

"And then there was the time I proposed a risky battle strategy (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180078.msg8393588#msg8393588), which involved leaking some plans to the enemy in exchange for momentum on the battlefield. People sure as hell didn't like my plan, but it established my credibility in some of their eyes and our side swiftly won the day regardless.

"That enough intelligence for you?"

"So you have proven capable of showing your loyalty early and effectively in the past, and that is why. Thank you."

Lenglon: Are you roleplaying in this game because you want to be more lowkey/"low energy (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8400627#msg8400627)" this time around?
((fixed your link, quote my post and yours sometime so you can see the difference and why my link works and yours is broken))

((And I'm just doing it because it's fun for me. nothing more complicated than that.))
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 08:34:11 pm
You doin' okay there Web?

He motions to a nearby medical officer to come over.

The boy is fried, put'em on a stretcher and send him back home. We need soldiers, not toddlers!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 08:36:08 pm
Webadict for now.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Egan_BW on August 21, 2022, 08:39:23 pm
[totally unobtrusive post to watch]
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 21, 2022, 08:59:37 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4SHQSSeib4

This is probably town notquitethere. Would not endorse double tapping him with another player.
This is probably town webadict as well but I could easily be wrong. Might endorse double tapping him with another player on Day 3 if no scum are dead yet.
Not sure about ToonyMan. Asking everybody how good they are at reading players is alright to do but doesn't make me lean one way or the other about him. No reason to double tap him with another player yet.

This is Knightwing64.
This is Lidku.
This is Lenglon.
This is Maximum Spin.

No read implied about any of these players. Would not go out of my way to double tap with another player but also would not be particularly bothered if these players were double tapped.

Not sure about NJW2000. No reason to double tap yet.

There are a lot of town resources in this game. 3.5 guaranteed kills if the town perfectly coordinates kills, along with lynches, which is absolutely ridiculous. In comparison the scum team can pull off two guaranteed kills before their one shots are out while the town still have their vests.

EuchreJack, what is the mafia win condition?

Jim - He's pretty experienced, but I did read him in two posts last game. I don't think he'll let that happen twice though.

Last game I was town.

I want you to be able to read me quick like that.

Wait, sorry, that was for Toony. Have both of you been screwing around with avatars?

I changed my avatar after Beginner BYOR 1 to another picture of dunce Bison.

Lidku: Under what circumstances would you shoot someone N1?

Considering that our rifles only have 1 bullet only, I would only save it for someone I absolutely find suspicious; AND only if they're going under the radar of Town and everyone for some reason doesn't suspect them.

My rifle has a full magazine but I'm going to full auto magdump at one target and only hit them once if I'm lucky.

nightwing talking in red makes people mad kinda like bulls so dont do it

The red text honestly did bother me like this.

Aww, I didn't get to be scum again this time.

HRMMMMMMMMMM

I don't like roleplay, so Knightwing and Lenglon are clearly the mafia.

I want you to be able to say you're town because I endorse this opinion.

Webadict for now.

Interesting.

At some point I'm going to ask where your read came from.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 09:13:29 pm
"Okay, so apparently nobody can ever read Max. So until we have a reason to trust Max, or at least to trust someone else less than Max, I might as well vote him."

"Max, why should I think you're town? or at least more likely town than at least one other person?"
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 21, 2022, 09:18:15 pm
You doin' okay there Web?

He motions to a nearby medical officer to come over.

The boy is fried, put'em on a stretcher and send him back home. We need soldiers, not toddlers!
im not fried or a toddler im just doing what sarge told me to do

Webadict for now.
now i see why we dont talk in red it really does make people mad >:(

i think it not jim.
i think it not knightwing.
i think it not lidku.
i think it maybe not toony.
i think it maybe not lenglon.
i think it maybe max.
i think it maybe njw2000.
i think it maybe nqt.

that what i think

jim is nice to me he give me candy when i got hurt
knightwing show me metal and only good guy get metal
lidku told me funny story and that nice
toony call me red word and not nice but maybe he scared like when no lights
lenglon do secret handshake that sarge tell me but sometimes she get mad at me for making too much noise
max sometimes sneak off late at night and not let me come with even when i say i be quiet
njw2000 told me he can do more pushups than me but he say i cant beat him even when i do lots he say not enough and i know that lie
nqt scare me with mask and i hide in a bush but he say he saw me but it was a TRICK >:(
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 21, 2022, 10:46:15 pm
I can see why ToonyMan would vote webadict. He IS acting strange.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 21, 2022, 11:05:17 pm
no i am good guy here to get bad guys

if i was bad guy i would not be good guy that is how you know i am good guy
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 11:05:34 pm
I can see why ToonyMan would vote webadict. He IS acting strange.
You say that, but that's the first post of his I actually like...childish babbling aside.

"Okay, so apparently nobody can ever read Max. So until we have a reason to trust Max, or at least to trust someone else less than Max, I might as well vote him."

"Max, why should I think you're town? or at least more likely town than at least one other person?"
Max seems like a good vote.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 11:06:51 pm
i think it not jim.
i think it not knightwing.
i think it not lidku.
i think it maybe not toony.
i think it maybe not lenglon.
i think it maybe max.
i think it maybe njw2000.
i think it maybe nqt.

that what i think
(https://i.imgur.com/KUYtXJp.gif)
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 11:09:57 pm
Big brain theory: Mafia are Max and NJW.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 11:15:08 pm
Big brain theory: Mafia are Max and NJW.
Okay. Why?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 21, 2022, 11:16:53 pm
EBWOP: ((hit post before I was ready))
"Okay, why?"

Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 21, 2022, 11:23:01 pm
Big brain theory: Mafia are Max and NJW.
Okay. Why?
*cracks knuckles*

Max hasn't told us if Knightwing is town or mafia yet, this is very odd.
NJW's questioning line towards Lidku was odd, though nothing definitive.
Jim and Web both don't have townreads of Max or NJW, neither do I.

Jim and myself are siding with NQT. Web is reading NQT as mafia, but also reads Max and NJW poorly.

I'm not fully confident in this theory, maybe switch NJW with Lidku.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 21, 2022, 11:45:48 pm
Quote from: Mafia Win-Con
Win-Con: You win if Mafia equal or exceed Town in numbers.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 22, 2022, 03:47:32 am
Ok. I'm trying to work out if Lidku TMI'd or something here. This was a somewhat cruel strategy based on a previous game. I managed to get some early information out of him by talking about the setup in Max's cult game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179949.15), which actually proved critical to the winning move. Seeing if I can do the same thing here.

Something weird did come up: Lidku's idea that you'd shoot mafia nobody else suspected. There are some reasons doing that could be an ok plan, but Lidku hasn't explained why stripping away a bulletproof vest would help if nobody was willing to go after the person with you.

Lidku: why would this be helpful?



Jim: I meant the last game we were together in, which I think was Roden's Demon Mafia. Anyway:

Quote
There are a lot of town resources in this game. 3.5 guaranteed kills if the town perfectly coordinates kills, along with lynches, which is absolutely ridiculous. In comparison the scum team can pull off two guaranteed kills before their one shots are out while the town still have their vests.
Uh... could you explain this for me? Specifically the part about the scum team? What are the assumptions there?



By the way, I mean it when I say roleplay disguises tone. RP-ing the entire day is a votable offence because it stops me getting a good read.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 06:14:04 am
Max hasn't told us if Knightwing is town or mafia yet, this is very odd.
The hell I haven't? Who am I voting for again?

Okay, maybe it went over your head. Knightwing has not posted a serious-sounding post yet this game. That's how I judge towniness of Knightwing. The roleplay provides a convenient excuse for covering up Knightwing's known tell, which is why I additionally suspect the one who kicked off the roleplay to have done it on purpose to protect him.
And notably, after doing so, I get voted by that very individual on shady, shaky grounds.

Maybe Knightwing will come back and sound real, I'm not saying this is absolute certainty that I can't change my mind about, but right now the balance is clear.

Followup question: Have you ever said "big brain theory"  on d1 and been right? I'm not trying to bring you down, nobody's ever right on d1 unless it's real easy, but come on. I've already had it out with webadict over this kind of thing, and it's hilarious how similar you two are.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 06:31:49 am
maximum spin is being mean to knightwing and he has a metal so i no hes a good guy otherwise i will be mad
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 22, 2022, 06:33:51 am
maximum spin is being mean to knightwing and he has a metal so i no hes a good guy otherwise i will be mad
...Are you saying Max is wrong about Knightwing's performance this game vs his scum meta?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 06:34:39 am
although maybe i will also red knightwing because maybe max is right but he still wont let me go with

maximum spin is being mean to knightwing and he has a metal so i no hes a good guy otherwise i will be mad
...Are you saying Max is wrong about Knightwing's performance this game vs his scum meta?
maybe maybe not it really depend because sometimes knightwing do this you no?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 22, 2022, 06:38:56 am
Quote
maybe maybe not it really depend because sometimes knightwing do this you no?
...I mean, that's reasonable. I don't think KW's posted enough to tell, although some people do seem to be able to read him very fast as well as very accurately.

Thus far he seems to have found something he can do other than play mafia, but he's doing it with confidence, so NAI to me.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 07:01:02 am
this is true and max stake life on it he probly get shot if he wrong anyway
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 22, 2022, 07:26:20 am
Jim
There are a lot of town resources in this game. 3.5 guaranteed kills if the town perfectly coordinates kills, along with lynches, which is absolutely ridiculous. In comparison the scum team can pull off two guaranteed kills before their one shots are out while the town still have their vests.
This is interesting, do you think it's worth co-ordinating town shots? I sort of assumed most players would shoot their shot on N1.

I changed my avatar after Beginner BYOR 1 to another picture of dunce Bison.
It's looking good!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 22, 2022, 07:28:18 am
Maximum Spin
Aww, I didn't get to be scum again this time.

I don't like roleplay, so Knightwing and Lenglon are clearly the mafia.
Do you think it's an actual scumtell or are you going after an easy target?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 07:50:40 am
Do you think it's an actual scumtell or are you going after an easy target?
Asked and answered.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 07:52:04 am
Max hasn't told us if Knightwing is town or mafia yet, this is very odd.
The hell I haven't? Who am I voting for again?

Okay, maybe it went over your head. Knightwing has not posted a serious-sounding post yet this game. That's how I judge towniness of Knightwing. The roleplay provides a convenient excuse for covering up Knightwing's known tell, which is why I additionally suspect the one who kicked off the roleplay to have done it on purpose to protect him.
And notably, after doing so, I get voted by that very individual on shady, shaky grounds.

Maybe Knightwing will come back and sound real, I'm not saying this is absolute certainty that I can't change my mind about, but right now the balance is clear.

Followup question: Have you ever said "big brain theory"  on d1 and been right? I'm not trying to bring you down, nobody's ever right on d1 unless it's real easy, but come on. I've already had it out with webadict over this kind of thing, and it's hilarious how similar you two are.
So scum are Knightwing and Lenglon? Case closed.

Wait.

I do not read Lenglon as a cunning enough player to immediately tell Knightwing to roleplay with them. I read Knightwing as someone who is roleplaying on their own because they enjoy it, but I would like non-roleplay posts. Your suspicion of Lenglon voting you is understandable and I can argue this is town!Max being paranoid.

Followup answer:
The theory is based on my feelings along with what Jim and Web have posted. Why can't a player be right on D1? You could be right about Lenglon and Knightwing!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 07:56:37 am
Do you think it's an actual scumtell or are you going after an easy target?
Asked and answered.
You're serious then?

I feel a reason Web might be town is because they swapped from you to Knightwing earlier just now. I think Web is unsure about Knightwing and wants to squeeze him to get more information, which is something I can approve of.

I don't have that sense of genuineness from you, does that make sense?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 08:00:48 am
toony is too smart for me but thats how toony is so maybe toony is town toony which is good but is it the shady town toony where he secretely is MAFA?!

we will never no

i just rol a die and let that decide oh look its heads so toony is town
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 08:55:06 am
unvote: It seems we are leaving RVS early.

Toony, I am cunning enough to tell Knightwing that but I don't have a good enough read of Knightwing's meta to think it's necessary. I'd instead be talking fundamentals and asking him to emulate his town self.

I do agree with the assertion that KW hasn't participated yet, as hinted when I accused him of having no plan. I am not convinced this is a scumtell from him based on his play in BBYOR2.

NJW, as is par for the course apparently, irritates me but not in a 'is scum' way, just in a 'I dislike your arguments' way. And this particular time I can't really say they're wrong, which annoys me further.

Max doesn't seem passive and sideline-snipe-ish this game, unlike my past experience. Since my past experience was with Scum!Max, this is a good sign.

Toony and Web are both using clean logic I can follow fairly easily, though Web is obfuscating for whatever reason.

NQT feels town to me because is being independant while active questioning.

Jim's null atm.

Lidku seems mildly suspicious to me for not taking into account people's vests but it still could easily be a simple oversight.

Leaving my vote floating, am busy and don't want hammer shenanigans, Emotion says most sus is Jim and I don't have a good reason why. Logic says best vote is Knightwing / Lidku.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 22, 2022, 11:09:41 am
Thanks for dropping rp. I’m reassured by the way you did it, but I don’t want to explain why just yet because my reasoning bears on other players in a way that isn’t settled.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 11:20:52 am
sarge said do it dont quit or maybe that was shiloh buff i dont rely remember but what i do remember is that we can always red nightwing
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 11:33:48 am
Thanks for dropping rp. I’m reassured by the way you did it, but I don’t want to explain why just yet because my reasoning bears on other players in a way that isn’t settled.
I'm only dropping it temporarily because I saw it being exploited to hide. I'll be bringing it back later when I think it won't be a problem.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 22, 2022, 01:51:20 pm
Being voted for liking RP,

👁👄👁

I think max doesn’t realize that people can change. Why would I act the exact same every game? That makes no sense, of course I’m going to be different every time. The last time you said I was mafia, I was town anyways. Your reasoning is flawed and unreliable.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 01:58:47 pm
ya ok i think knightwing took that metal from someone hes being reeeeeally suspishus
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 01:59:48 pm
nightwing who is the bad guy here if it is not you becasue we think it is you and that is not what a good guy wood say
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 22, 2022, 03:00:51 pm
Twenty Clicks to the Target!

(2) Knightwing64: Maximum Spin, webadict
(0) Jim Groovester:
(0) notquitethere:
(1) Maximum Spin: notquitethere
(1) webadict: ToonyMan
(0) Lidku:
(0) NJW2000:
(0) ToonyMan:
(0) Lenglon:

Not voting: Knightwing64, Jim Groovester, Lidku, NJW2000, Lenglon

Five (5) to Hammer
Day ends August 24th at 0600 Hours EST (approximately 38 hours 5 minutes)
General E.K. Jack is experiencing some possible difficulties, so please be patient with High Command!
(I might have COVID, and that means limited mental capacity and ability to function.  Still in the "Test Negative, but who knows?" stage. So, uh, double check the vote counts, ok? And if I disappear at End Of Day or Hammer, just shut up and I'll get to processing the turn when able.)
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 03:02:35 pm
Knightwing

I'll shoot at Max tonight if Knightwing is town.

I'll shoot at...Lenglon if Knightwing is mafia? Max says people can't be right on Day 1 though...

Maybe I shoot Lidku regardless of Knightwing's alignment, they should be okay with that.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 03:09:42 pm
Being voted for liking RP,
You aren't being voted for liking RP. or at least I'm not suspicious of you for that and I don't think anyone else actually is either. You're being voted for active-lurking.
I think max doesn’t realize that people can change. Why would I act the exact same every game? That makes no sense, of course I’m going to be different every time. The last time you said I was mafia, I was town anyways. Your reasoning is flawed and unreliable.
So the problem with your example of Max being wrong is that in the game you're referencing, Max was scum. What that implies is that Max wasn't actually wrong, Max was simply getting a townie lynched. So from the perspective of someone that trusts Max's reads of you, this is a thunderdome-type situation, where one or the other of you is scum, but not both. So it's a lynch KN and if town lynch Max kind of deal. You can even see this logic in Toony's post just above this one.

IMO, I still don't trust reads people make with so little data, and don't trust Max's Knightwing-o-meter, but I am willing to vote you out simply for the active lurking if you don't quit it.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 22, 2022, 03:11:36 pm
Because I don't want to answer any questions about turn resolution, I've updated the Opening Post with Night Action Turn Resolution Order
For the lazy...
Night Action Resolution Order:
 Copy
 Hide
 Bus Drive
 Block
 Redirect
 Protect
 Miscellaneous
 Kill
 Recruit
 Inspect

It's based on this (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution) and that (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180072.0)
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 03:24:04 pm
NQT, you asked me earlier what I thought of the overall situation as a whole, and I told you that I'd give you feedback later. Later's now. I think we're looking at a highly volatile game, and one that is far less based on finding and confirming town than it is about finding scum directly.
I am happy about certain things that I'm NOT seeing today, and I'm going to avoid bringing them up specifically to avoid making them happen. If I'm alive tomorrow I might talk about them then. might not even then.
I think that toony organizing for me to be shot overnight in the case of Knightwing being scum is fine, it'll make sure we don't waste time with me tomorrow and I understand why I have drawn some suspicion, and understand how others don't feel like they can get a good snap-read of me yet since it's been years since I was last scum so they have no comparison between Scum!Lenglon and Town!Lenglon. I'll make sure to take my shot tonight so that mine won't be wasted. My current target is likely to be Lidku regardless of Knightwing's flip, simply for disengagement. I'll maintain updates on my intent if I change my mind for as long as I am a likely overnight shot target.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 03:28:31 pm
i do not think it lidku that is a bad shot on good guy
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 03:30:10 pm
i do not think it lidku that is a bad shot on good guy
I don't understand. could you explain please?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 22, 2022, 03:32:24 pm
Hm. Looking at Lidkus posts this game, he hasn’t been active since yesterday’s RVS and usually starts posting around this time of day. Yesterday may have been mostly fluff from him, but I’m still curious:

Why does this count as shooting-worthy disengagement, Lenglon?

It is frustrating, I’ll admit, as I’m most interested in Lidku’s answer to my question right now.

Or perhaps Jim Groovester’s.


Edit: double ninja
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 03:37:37 pm
I don't think it's shooting-worthy disengagement NJW, however I am working on the assumption that I die tonight and so I either shoot or my shot is lost forever. That being the case, it's the best shot I have at this time. If I didn't think that I die tonight, then I wouldn't shoot at all at this time.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 03:43:43 pm
that is bad thought you only want shoot guy because you have shot???

that is such bad guy thought

i be better bad shot everyone shoot me is better then make good guy get shot because no thought!?!

y we have no think?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 03:47:01 pm
So you'd prefer I die without shooting instead of taking a bad shot? I can work with that but would like confirmation.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 03:49:10 pm
The last time you said I was mafia, I was town anyways. Your reasoning is flawed and unreliable.
The last time I said you were mafia, I was and I was just trying to get you lynched. It also didn't work nearly as well for me as townreading you the previous time did so if I were mafia I'd go back to that again.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 04:38:37 pm
Knightwing who's your partner in crime?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 04:40:32 pm
i do not think it lidku that is a bad shot on good guy
I don't understand. could you explain please?
I don't understand either.

Who's the bad guy Web? What about NJW bullying Lidku? Is NJW being a bad guy?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 04:51:10 pm
I've skimmed the thread and it seems like some find my disengagement suspicious. I've been recently job searching for a while and briefly forgot I was in this. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 04:53:35 pm
ok now u can bad shot lidku.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 04:55:23 pm
I'm going to leash a vote on webadict for now. He isn't acting like himself and his grammar is really bad on purpose. Something isn't right with him. He's either being a troll!Town or a Mafia trying to tone his posts as a troll!Town.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 05:01:18 pm
Could it just be Knightwing and Lidku?
Is the world truly so beautiful?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 05:07:44 pm
Something weird did come up: Lidku's idea that you'd shoot mafia nobody else suspected. There are some reasons doing that could be an ok plan, but Lidku hasn't explained why stripping away a bulletproof vest would help if nobody was willing to go after the person with you.
Lidku: why would this be helpful?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to put across here. Using my gun is one ability within itself. It does not "consume" or "strip away" my use of my vest.

Unless you mean the "auto" in the vest tag means that 1 bullet is consumed by the shooter, and that the vest is consumed via defense for the victim; wherein another person at NIGHT also has to follow along shooting the target, within the same night...

I see it differently (and correct me if I'm wrong), the "auto" in the vest tag just means its priority is always first over either a bullet Vigilante-kill and a Mafia-Kill. Beyond that at night, you either have to choose to use your gun or use your vest, or do nothing.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 05:17:01 pm
And also, NJW, your question further makes no sense, because Town cannot communicate during the Night. The only chance of orchestrating who to in a combined shoot-off would only be possible on a day turn.

The inherent theme of this game (from what I personally gather), is that everyone in Town can equally at least one-shot someone else; unless the person who is paranoid that they're going to get shot uses their vest, thus having a potential kill against them be negated.

So nothing about what you asked me made sense to begin with. Mind explaining where you got "why stripping away a bulletproof vest would help if nobody was willing to go after the person with you" idea from?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 05:33:10 pm
Could it just be Knightwing and Lidku?
Is the world truly so beautiful?
Want to make a blood pact? If we vote off Knightwing and they're town then shoot me tonight and I'll shoot you.

I'm going to leash a vote on webadict for now. He isn't acting like himself and his grammar is really bad on purpose. Something isn't right with him. He's either being a troll!Town or a Mafia trying to tone his posts as a troll!Town.
This is a bad vote.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 05:37:20 pm
I'm going to leash a vote on webadict for now. He isn't acting like himself and his grammar is really bad on purpose. Something isn't right with him. He's either being a troll!Town or a Mafia trying to tone his posts as a troll!Town.
ok but is i mafa or not? i feel maybe u red name nightwing first see how that go

i am plain barbarian i make thing go crunch i not troll ok maybe little like troll like fire bad and strong and eat only one baby but just one
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 05:41:14 pm
This is a bad vote.

It's obviously not my vote or a deterministic vote. It is just a "leash-vote" because I find the way webadict is acting/posting.. strange. The only "normal post" he had since the game started, was his initial read difficulty post.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 05:43:35 pm
This is a bad vote.

It's obviously not my vote or a deterministic vote. It is just a "leash-vote" because I find the way webadict is acting/posting.. strange. The only "normal post" he had since the game started, was his initial read difficulty post.

You won't even own up to your vote? It's a poor vote because you're saying Webadict is either town or mafia.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 05:45:09 pm
Also, ToonyMan.. I don't get why you say it's a bad vote.. considering you also have voted for webadict for acting strangely just as I have (and you have yet to unvote them..). Can you explain why my vote along the same reasoning is bad, but yours specially isn't?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 05:46:51 pm
i say ok that good but maybe say if nightwing good guy bad gu but not hear you say that yet which seem not good to me but maybe wait for no if nightwing good guy bad guy

it probly not max tho he not put life in bad way for nightwing shot and not day one either

this is plain think yes?

Also, ToonyMan.. I don't get why you say it's a bad vote.. considering you also have voted for webadict for acting strangely just as I have (and you have yet to unvote them..). Can you explain why my vote along the same reasoning is bad, but yours specially isn't?
toony vote push and feel town good lidku vote sit and look busy not good
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 05:49:47 pm
Also, ToonyMan.. I don't get why you say it's a bad vote.. considering you also have voted for webadict for acting strangely just as I have (and you have yet to unvote them..). Can you explain why my vote along the same reasoning is bad, but yours specially isn't?

I'd like to add that it seems I was mistaken here. I re-read part of the thread and it seems ToonyMan switched to Knightwing.. but still, ToonyMan had the same(?) reasoning for initially voting for webadict like I did..

As a matter-of-fact, when Jim asked Toony why he voted for webadict, he just ignored Jim..
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 05:51:34 pm
Also, ToonyMan.. I don't get why you say it's a bad vote.. considering you also have voted for webadict for acting strangely just as I have (and you have yet to unvote them..). Can you explain why my vote along the same reasoning is bad, but yours specially isn't?

I voted Webadict for copying my post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8400782#msg8400782) at game start and not contributing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8400876#msg8400876) anything meaningful. Since then I've turned around and feel relatively good about Webadict and don't wish to vote him today. This is because even though Webadict has been posting like an 18-year-old on a dating site he is actively contributing to the game and appears honest.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 05:57:41 pm
red name good guy is clear! i strong like troll toony see that see say thing and also have many candy not bad guy

how you say toony bad you do same red name that not make sense

you copycat toony that make you need more thought in red name not toony that how time work
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 06:00:24 pm
I was re-reading the thread again (yeah, I mostly just skim at first when a large amount of time has passed with a lot of activity and I missed a lot) and apparently Lenglon is going to shoot me no matter what on N1, just because they flimsily suspect they're going to be the N1 kill?

Wut?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 06:03:53 pm
I was re-reading the thread again (yeah, I mostly just skim at first when a large amount of time has passed with a lot of activity and I missed a lot) and apparently Lenglon is going to shoot me no matter what on N1, just because they flimsily suspect they're going to be the N1 kill?

Wut?

Worried about Lenglon possibly shooting you tonight?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 22, 2022, 06:04:24 pm
Spoiler: replies to Lidku (click to show/hide)

Ok, I don't think Lidku TMI'd. One of us has heavily misinterpreted the setup (pretty sure it's him), but that's only grounds to look carefully at him.



Lidku: Web's D1 meta includes throwing his shit at people and licking his fingers afterwards. It's not a scumtell and people aren't going to lim him on it. If this is all you have, go back through the thread and scumhunt.

Which is also the thing I'm going to do.
EDIT: Looks like you've made a start.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 06:06:55 pm
Worried about Lenglon possibly shooting you tonight?

It's not a "possibility" when they've literally said they're going to do as such.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 06:08:41 pm
Lidku, why do you care that I'm going to shoot you?

Toony said they're going to shoot me tonight after Knightwing flips scum, and I honestly do not mind.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 22, 2022, 06:13:16 pm
I’m… not scum? I mean, you can vote me, I guess. I’m kinda used to it at this point.

What happened to don’t shoot the medic?

Whatever, you will all be sorry when I bring my medkits to the grave with me muhahahaha
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 06:14:23 pm
nightwing you say medic but tone say dont care and that bad guy say so why no red name?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 22, 2022, 06:14:46 pm
I have no clue what you just said, I’m gonna be honest
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 06:16:49 pm
I have no clue what you just said, I’m gonna be honest
no problem i fix

nightwing you say medic but tone say dont care and that bad guy say so why WE no red name YOU?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 06:18:55 pm
If this is all you have, go back through the thread and scumhunt.

Almost half the playerbase is going after Knightwing just for literally RP'ing (even though it was Lenglon who started that trend). Honestly, I find it even suspicious that Maximum Spin just voted for Knightwing instead of Lenglon; why go after the bandwagoner instead of the main person who started the RP trend, which was Lenglon (since his reasoning for voting Knightwing has been because he's RP'ing)?

Even NQT finds this iffy:

Maximum Spin
Aww, I didn't get to be scum again this time.

I don't like roleplay, so Knightwing and Lenglon are clearly the mafia.
Do you think it's an actual scumtell or are you going after an easy target?

And Toony, what's your real reasoning for switching your vote willy-nilly to Knightwing?

Is it because of you finding webadict "honest"? Which is strange, because first webadict put his vote on Maximum Spin, but then randomly switched to Knightwing with no considerable explanation. He isn't acting rational and is acting "trollish" on purpose this game... so I don't know why you would take his lead in voting.

Is it because of Maximum Spin? It seems strange to do so, considering Maximum Spin's low justification for even voting for Knightwing... Knightwing overall this day has barely posted. He's probably busy, but I'd like to see all his responses to this.

Lidku, why do you care that I'm going to shoot you?

Toony said they're going to shoot me tonight after Knightwing flips scum, and I honestly do not mind.

I obviously care because it would be a waste of my vest. I don't know why you think I wouldn't care.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 22, 2022, 06:21:40 pm
I have no clue what you just said, I’m gonna be honest
no problem i fix

nightwing you say medic but tone say dont care and that bad guy say so why WE no red name YOU?

Well, the game literally just started, so I’m not that attached, I mean, I would prefer not to get voted. But what can you do?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 06:22:19 pm
And before this day ends, I think it's pertinent we clear with Jack whether or not the vests don't need to be manually activated during a Night Turn (they just auto-deplete if you're shot at), or they DO need to be manually activated (if you don't activate your vest on a Night Turn and get targeted, you're dead).
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 06:25:53 pm
I’m… not scum? I mean, you can vote me, I guess. I’m kinda used to it at this point.

What happened to don’t shoot the medic?

Whatever, you will all be sorry when I bring my medkits to the grave with me muhahahaha
(https://i.imgur.com/wx2skbL.gif)

Well, the game literally just started, so I’m not that attached, I mean, I would prefer not to get voted. But what can you do?
Vote someone?

Do you think Max genuinely suspects you or is he mafia like before? You have first-hand experience with this.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 06:26:54 pm
lidku is ok when you see everything you see big sky and all stars and moon and cry from happy

in home land we learn is everything but also nothing and this why not sad when die
this why no see sky and star and moon
but still see everything
and you see star and moon but rely see nothing

and that is why i good guy see?

if not see then that fine we push nightwing he say good guy bad guy

maybe stop with rp but maybe keep go because sarge say no quit only do it

I have no clue what you just said, I’m gonna be honest
no problem i fix

nightwing you say medic but tone say dont care and that bad guy say so why WE no red name YOU?

Well, the game literally just started, so I’m not that attached, I mean, I would prefer not to get voted. But what can you do?
ok but that

hm

ok i say not same thing now it not make sense maybe

what if you red name person so we no who you think bad guy is? this make you not be bad guy to us when you see bad guy but you no see bad guy now and that mean it maybe you?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 06:29:23 pm
I obviously care because it would be a waste of my vest. I don't know why you think I wouldn't care.
I'm town and I don't care.

Raise of hands, who cares about losing their vest?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 06:32:41 pm
I find both webadict and ToonyMan suspicious.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 06:34:07 pm
I find both webadict and ToonyMan suspicious.
This amuses me because I find them both extremely Towny.

Oh, and I obviously don't mind getting shot tonight.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 06:41:31 pm
I find both webadict and ToonyMan suspicious.
ok find me bad guy ok cant say no

but toony??? toony is good guy only
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 06:46:12 pm
I find both webadict and ToonyMan suspicious.
This amuses me because I find them both extremely Towny.

Oh, and I obviously don't mind getting shot tonight.

Toony seems evasive to questions. He didn't answer Jim's question for why he switched to webadict (which maybe can be vouched for the fact Jim had a long post, and maybe Toony didn't want to read all that). He only explained his reasoning for why he voted for webadict after I pushed the fact that he missed Jim's question.

And interestingly, he said my vote for webadict was a "bad one".. when he literally voted for webadict along the same lines (webadict generally acting strange).

For him, because of webadict copying his first post and not "contributing anything meaningful"... but for some reason, Toony has now gotten over that and now trusts webadict as Town for some reason.. when in my opinion, webadict isn't really contributing anything meaningful at the moment still and no one can really understand his posts. Seems really strange and team-like between them, especially now that they're voting for the same guy.

Also, he just completely ignores my question for why he voted for Knightwing. I know he say my post, because he quoted the tail-end of it.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 06:49:50 pm
I'm going to keep my vote on webadict for now, just because I just don't find his post-style really worth bringing over to D2 (though I don't even know/doubt anyone is going to vote along with me). Toony is someone next in line I find suspicious right now.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 06:53:36 pm
I'm going to keep my vote on webadict for now, just because I just don't find his post-style really worth bringing over to D2 (though I don't even know/doubt anyone is going to vote along with me). Toony is someone next in line I find suspicious right now.
ok red name because think talk like bad guy

blue name toony because you copycat when toony red name have push

this not plain think to me
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 07:00:09 pm
Lenglon: What's your read on me now, now that I'm more "engaged"? Do you still think it's worth to use a 1-shot bullet on me on N1, irregardless of the circumstances?

Also, I'd like to address this:

Lidku, why do you care that I'm going to shoot you?

Toony said they're going to shoot me tonight after Knightwing flips scum, and I honestly do not mind.

Toony didn't say they were going to definitively shoot you at all on N1. They were very noncommittal (maybe even deliberately noncommittal) in phrasing on who they would shoot:

Knightwing

I'll shoot at Max tonight if Knightwing is town.

I'll shoot at...Lenglon if Knightwing is mafia? Max says people can't be right on Day 1 though...

Maybe I shoot Lidku regardless of Knightwing's alignment, they should be okay with that.

They'd only shoot you if Knightwing was confirmed as Mafia on a lynch.. which in my opinion, lowers in of chance of happening as I find Toony himself really suspicious at the moment. And his word on this can't be really taken at any true face-value, as apparently he's going to shoot me regardless of Knightwing's revealed alignment... interesting.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 22, 2022, 07:10:18 pm
Pfp
Not 100% on Max, and KW is setting off some alarm bells with his claim but...

Toony, work me through your logic on shooting people if such and such a person flips. As it looks like what you're doing is win-win for a scum player. Like, "X has flipped town, so of course I shot Y as that's what I said I would do... too bad they're also town".

What's the rationale here?

--

I don't mind the RP posts, I've played games all in character myself. That said, I am finding Web a little bit hard to parse. I wouldn't be surprised though if he has some kind of posting restriction.

Web, what is metal?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 22, 2022, 07:15:22 pm
Web's comprehensible, but it's only intuitive if you can kind of guess what the arguments will be. A bit unfair on newer players really. It's probably completely lucid ludicity for Toony, the two of them are like a married couple, always finishing each other's...



Ok, can't do a long readslist because there's information missing that I'm going to depend on for the vote, but a brief snapshot of where I am:
 - I think Lenglon is probably town, I won't explain why right now.
 - I think Lidku might actually be town. Their reactions seem genuine, and I don't see them launching a worthless single-line push against Web then coming in with all this effort as scum, they have better mafia instinct than that. It looked organic.
 - I'm not sure about Knightwing, but so far this isn't obviously Town!Knightwing or Scum!Knightwing to me. The RP really gave them something to hide behind. I don't think they'd fakeclaim doctor without being coached though, and the timing is very odd for a coached fakeclaim, so if it's a fakeclaim there must have been a miscommunication. Something to think about.

Can't tell/not finished with Web and Toony, or the other few players.





Still need to hear from NQT and Jim Groovester... heyoo Jim, still voting you.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 07:25:14 pm
Pfp
Not 100% on Max, and KW is setting off some alarm bells with his claim but...

Toony, work me through your logic on shooting people if such and such a person flips. As it looks like what you're doing is win-win for a scum player. Like, "X has flipped town, so of course I shot Y as that's what I said I would do... too bad they're also town".

What's the rationale here?

--

I don't mind the RP posts, I've played games all in character myself. That said, I am finding Web a little bit hard to parse. I wouldn't be surprised though if he has some kind of posting restriction.

Web, what is metal?
metal is big badge knightwing earn in battle

can stop rp when someone say stop but noone say stop so cant stop wont stop
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 07:28:50 pm
KW is setting off some alarm bells with his claim but...

If Knightwing really is Town and a Medic, him revealing this early was a real bad move.

But if he's actually Mafia, it could be some detraction to get votes off of him.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 22, 2022, 07:36:02 pm
KW is setting off some alarm bells with his claim but...
If Knightwing really is Town and a Medic, him revealing this early was a real bad move.

I blame Toony. Besides, I think I could… wait lemme check
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 07:40:07 pm
Still need to hear from NQT and Jim Groovester... heyoo Jim, still voting you.

I don't think Jim is going to post today. He might be busy with IRL things.

Though, this makes me wonder if Lenglon is going to switch from shooting me N1, to shooting Jim N1 for "disengagement". Is the arrangement only a special order for me only? Or does it not discern?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 07:46:50 pm
I blame Toony.

Why Toony? It was Max who started the vote on you for "rp'ing", but ignored Lenglon who started that trend (and I don't mean to pounce on Lenglon deliberately by any means, just stating facts and trying to rationalize Max's logic).

webadict flip-flopped and his posting-style isn't really meaningful to me at the moment. First he went for Max, for voting you, then went for you.. his reasoning? I still don't really understand since he's "barbarian-posting" now.

Toony, when I asked, ignored my question on why he voted for you.

My current D1 read:

Max: Really suspicious on his reasoning logic for voting Knight, but no Lenglon.

webadict: My go-to Day 1 vote for just general strange and suspicious behavior.

Toony: I think he might be either on a team with webadict or Maximum. I'm leading toward a "web-toon" team right now.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 07:48:40 pm
Lenglon: What's your read on me now, now that I'm more "engaged"? Do you still think it's worth to use a 1-shot bullet on me on N1, irregardless of the circumstances?
I think you have a weak grounding in theory and should look up how abilities work, but you don't seem scummy at the moment. I'm considering not shooting tonight because I'm not happy with any targets other than Knightwing, who I would be voting but I don't want him at H-1, and who I am currently assuming will be today's lynch barring sudden weirdness.
I don't think Jim is going to post today. He might be busy with IRL things.

Though, this makes me wonder if Lenglon is going to switch from shooting me N1, to shooting Jim N1 for "disengagement". Is the arrangement only a special order for me only? Or does it not discern?
Different tells are of different value for different people. Disengagement from you Lidku is scummier than the exact same level of disengagement from Jim is. Just like piss-poor analysis is much scummier from Jim than it is from you.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 22, 2022, 07:59:15 pm
Delightful
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 08:03:33 pm
Different tells are of different value for different people. Disengagement from you Lidku is scummier than the exact same level of disengagement from Jim is. Just like piss-poor analysis is much scummier from Jim than it is from you.

So a wishy-washy "special order arrangement" type of line of decisioneering, got it. Could have said that, instead your fruitful comment at the end there. And that's confident assumption of you to think Knightwing might be the D1 lynch here, considering every voter against him right now either has poor reasoning or a suspicious reasoning to do so. If he isn't lynched D1, will you shoot him?

And while we're at right, you said you're reasoning for finding Knightwing suspicious was that "he was active lurking"? I assume what you mean by this, was that you checked his profile and saw he was online, but he wasn't posting?

Well Jim is doing the same exact thing now, only he has the lowest activity out of everyone right now. Can you explain finding Knigtwing suspicious for "active lurking", but not Jim, who is doing so now?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 08:05:13 pm
Oh, I didn't notice that you can also just check the bottom of the homepage of who's active now as well.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 22, 2022, 08:07:58 pm
Different tells are of different value for different people. Disengagement from you Lidku is scummier than the exact same level of disengagement from Jim is. Just like piss-poor analysis is much scummier from Jim than it is from you.

So a wishy-washy "special order arrangement" type of line of decisioneering, got it. Could have said that, instead your fruitful comment at the end there. And that's confident assumption of you to think Knightwing might be the D1 lynch here, considering every voter against him right now either has poor reasoning or a suspicious reasoning to do so. If he isn't lynched D1, will you shoot him?
The reasons he's being voted for are actually pretty solid. And yes, if Knightwing isn't today's lynch I will be shooting him tonight without the slightest regret unless something changes.
And while we're at right, you said you're reasoning for finding Knightwing suspicious was that "he was active lurking"? I assume what you mean by this, was that you checked his profile and saw he was online, but he wasn't posting?

Well Jim is doing the same exact thing now, only he has the lowest activity out of everyone right now. Can you explain finding Knigtwing suspicious for "active lurking", but not Jim, who is doing so now?
Active lurking is when you are actively making posts and comments in the mafia thread but they don't have anything to do with scumhunting. for example:
Delightful
This is active lurking.
You don't need to have every post be scumhunting, don't even need a majority of your posts to be scumhunting. But if you don't have any actual scumhunting posts within a reasonable timeframe, I usually go with 24 hours, but are actively participating in the mafia thread, then you should be lynched for it. That is what I'm seeing from Knightwing.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 08:12:56 pm
Lidku, you just really sound a lot like you did when we were scum together, and even like how you did when you were sort of scum in my game... sort of rigid and academic, bordering on stentorian. Like you're giving a lecture. Then again, I do not have enough information to rule out the possibility that you are always like that. Your reasoning has been pretty specious too though, which is not encouraging. That said, you are far from the only person who strikes me as making bad arguments.

Knightwing has done nothing to change my opinion in any way, which is really kind of disappointing. I was certainly acting on thin speculation at the beginning, but every additional post has been confirmatory. I'm sorry if you don't see it, Lidku, but I promise, it's completely rational.

Finally, I guess this is for Lidku too, but can you tell me why webadict's ... thing, I guess it's not strictly "roleplaying", but thing, is more likely to be town than Knightwing's? There is a reason. I want to see if you can see it.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 08:14:26 pm
Oh, I also wanted to add, Lidku seems to be going hard OMGUSing anyone who voted Knightwing. It's honestly at that point where I start to doubt it could really be that obvious.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 08:15:30 pm
Lenglon is so town, shit, they're the most town player in the room right now.

@NQT:
Toony, work me through your logic on shooting people if such and such a person flips. As it looks like what you're doing is win-win for a scum player. Like, "X has flipped town, so of course I shot Y as that's what I said I would do... too bad they're also town".

What's the rationale here?
I shoot people based on flip, simple to understand. What's the problem?

Take the last game I was in, for example, Knightwing flipped mafia so I shot at Jim with my Dracostrike, why? Because Jim was the most suspicious person if Knightwing flipped mafia. Jim was mafia in that game.

Right now I'm waiting for Max's response to my blood pact.

@Lidku:
Toony, when I asked, ignored my question on why he voted for you.
Maybe Knightwing can answer me and not ignore me.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 22, 2022, 08:17:50 pm
What did you even ask me?


Maximum Spin


Have that for some scum hunting
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 08:18:29 pm
Right now I'm waiting for Max's response to my blood pact.
Oh yeah, sorry. Nah, I'm not feeling it at the moment. I think there are people who deserve shooting more than you. Also I'm not really a suicide pact kind of guy. I just don't have that self-sacrifice instinct; getting killed and winning is better than getting killed and losing, but it's still not as good as surviving and winning. Maybe you could offer a vote pact instead?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 08:18:55 pm
Oh, I also wanted to add, Lidku seems to be going hard OMGUSing anyone who voted Knightwing. It's honestly at that point where I start to doubt it could really be that obvious.
I don't understand why Lidku is hard defending Knightwing when Mr. Wing of the Knights can do it themselves.

PPE:
What did you even ask me?


Maximum Spin


Have that for some scum hunting
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooo

ooooooooo
*reaction gif meme*
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 08:21:11 pm
What did you even ask me?


Maximum Spin


Have that for some scum hunting
I liked it better in Demon Mafia where you guilt-tripped the hell out of us after being caught. You could at least put a little effort in.

Oh, I also wanted to add, Lidku seems to be going hard OMGUSing anyone who voted Knightwing. It's honestly at that point where I start to doubt it could really be that obvious.
I don't understand why Lidku is hard defending Knightwing when Mr. Wing of the Knights can do it themselves.
You should maybe check the scumchat of BeBYOR2 with me and Lidku. He's really, really reactive and I don't think he could help himself if they were scum together.
I honestly probably should've done a better job training him not to do that then but uhhh
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 22, 2022, 08:25:00 pm
Oooooooooo

Max, you are about as rational as someone who believes in a Flying Spaghetti Monster. you use big words to confuse people who have one brain cell combined to do what you want.

Maximum Spin your way to death, please. You have to cause I asked nice.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2022, 08:28:12 pm
@Knightwing:
So I take it you believe Many Rotations is mafia and trying to mislynch you again? Can you convince me this is the case? I didn't fully read that game. This is the perfect chance to show your stuff.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 08:30:31 pm
@Knightwing:
So I take it you believe Many Rotations is mafia and trying to mislynch you again? Can you convince me this is the case? I didn't fully read that game. This is the perfect chance to show your stuff.
To be honest, I took advantage of the fact that he genuinely did look shadier than usual, which is why I'm still feeling leery this time: it's not impossible that his gameplay has genuinely just gotten worse and I'm reading too much into it.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 08:32:11 pm
people who have one brain cell combined
(Also, not sure this is a good way to get ANYONE to stop voting you, lol)
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 08:33:47 pm
Oh, I also wanted to add, Lidku seems to be going hard OMGUSing anyone who voted Knightwing. It's honestly at that point where I start to doubt it could really be that obvious.

Like NQT said initially, you going for Knightwing just seemed like low-hanging fruit and your justification for why was even more "specious" when you could have just voted for Lenglon who initially was even rp'ing just as much, and the one who started it.

Finally, I guess this is for Lidku too, but can you tell me why webadict's ... thing, I guess it's not strictly "roleplaying", but thing, is more likely to be town than Knightwing's? There is a reason. I want to see if you can see it.

Both of them have non-serious in their posting. webadict is marginally more "serious", but I still think he isn't posting anything meaningful. Even with Knightwing dropping the "RP", his posts are troll-like.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 08:36:44 pm
Oh, I also wanted to add, Lidku seems to be going hard OMGUSing anyone who voted Knightwing. It's honestly at that point where I start to doubt it could really be that obvious.

Like NQT said initially, you going for Knightwing just seemed like low-hanging fruit and your justification for why was even more "specious" when you could have just voted for Lenglon who initially was even rp'ing just as much, and the one who started it.
It's not about the RP, bro.

Finally, I guess this is for Lidku too, but can you tell me why webadict's ... thing, I guess it's not strictly "roleplaying", but thing, is more likely to be town than Knightwing's? There is a reason. I want to see if you can see it.

Both of them have non-serious in their posting. webadict is marginally more "serious", but I still think he isn't posting anything meaningful. Even with Knightwing dropping the "RP", his posts are troll-like.
Okay, that's not the right answer either.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 22, 2022, 08:39:13 pm
(I might have COVID, and that means limited mental capacity and ability to function.  Still in the "Test Negative, but who knows?" stage. So, uh, double check the vote counts, ok? And if I disappear at End Of Day or Hammer, just shut up and I'll get to processing the turn when able.)

Feel better, friend.

Quote
Jim is disengaged

I am not disengaged! You will know when I'm disengaged when I say I am disengaged.

Jim
There are a lot of town resources in this game. 3.5 guaranteed kills if the town perfectly coordinates kills, along with lynches, which is absolutely ridiculous. In comparison the scum team can pull off two guaranteed kills before their one shots are out while the town still have their vests.
This is interesting, do you think it's worth co-ordinating town shots? I sort of assumed most players would shoot their shot on N1.

Coordinating town kills was the strategy I expected would organically arise out of playing this set up.

'hey, brother, this player is bothering me, want to shoot him with me'
'hell yeah, brother, let's do it'

I don't mind the RP posts, I've played games all in character myself. That said, I am finding Web a little bit hard to parse. I wouldn't be surprised though if he has some kind of posting restriction.

I understand where you're coming from but I find this a net improvement in comprehensibility over webadict's normally cryptic and evasive Day 1 posting style.

Still need to hear from NQT and Jim Groovester... heyoo Jim, still voting you.
Jim: I meant the last game we were together in, which I think was Roden's Demon Mafia. Anyway:

Quote
There are a lot of town resources in this game. 3.5 guaranteed kills if the town perfectly coordinates kills, along with lynches, which is absolutely ridiculous. In comparison the scum team can pull off two guaranteed kills before their one shots are out while the town still have their vests.
Uh... could you explain this for me? Specifically the part about the scum team? What are the assumptions there?

This was not worth voting me over to remind me to answer compared to just reminding me in bold for when I get around to posting.

So, everybody has a one shot kill and everybody has a one shot vest that protects them from one kill. The scum team also has a night kill. In order for the scum team to guarantee that their target dies during the night phase, the scum team will have to double up on kill actions in order to eliminate their target from the game. I.E., Scum 1 uses the night kill on X and Scum 2 uses the one shot kill on X to guarantee a kill. They could gamble that that their target has already used up their vest or that members of the town will also want to shoot their target but that's silly. They can do this guaranteed kill twice before they run out of one shots and can only rely on their night kill (barring role silliness I didn't know could be a possibility when I was typing up this answer originally).

Max hasn't told us if Knightwing is town or mafia yet, this is very odd.
The hell I haven't? Who am I voting for again?

Okay, maybe it went over your head. Knightwing has not posted a serious-sounding post yet this game. That's how I judge towniness of Knightwing. The roleplay provides a convenient excuse for covering up Knightwing's known tell, which is why I additionally suspect the one who kicked off the roleplay to have done it on purpose to protect him.
And notably, after doing so, I get voted by that very individual on shady, shaky grounds.

I might buy this if Lenglon didn't have a history of RPing in mafia games.

Followup question: Have you ever said "big brain theory"  on d1 and been right? I'm not trying to bring you down, nobody's ever right on d1 unless it's real easy, but come on. I've already had it out with webadict over this kind of thing, and it's hilarious how similar you two are.

whatisirony

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Never mind, not ironic.

I don't think it's shooting-worthy disengagement NJW, however I am working on the assumption that I die tonight and so I either shoot or my shot is lost forever. That being the case, it's the best shot I have at this time. If I didn't think that I die tonight, then I wouldn't shoot at all at this time.

If you're going to shoot somebody then you should find somebody to shoot somebody with. That way it guarantees removal of your target from the game.

If you don't coordinate ahead of time you're scum since you're just going through the motions of vigging and not actually trying to solve the game by guaranteeing a kill.

So you'd prefer I die without shooting instead of taking a bad shot? I can work with that but would like confirmation.

You didn't ask me but yes.

Get somebody to buy into your plan to shoot a target or don't shoot at all.

As a matter-of-fact, when Jim asked Toony why he voted for webadict, he just ignored Jim..

I was not that bothered by ToonyMan ignoring me since I said I would ask him for a reason later and not right then and there. ToonyMan eventually provided the reason on his own without me having to ask for it anyway.

I'm going to leash a vote on webadict for now. He isn't acting like himself and his grammar is really bad on purpose. Something isn't right with him. He's either being a troll!Town or a Mafia trying to tone his posts as a troll!Town.
I'm going to keep my vote on webadict for now, just because I just don't find his post-style really worth bringing over to D2 (though I don't even know/doubt anyone is going to vote along with me). Toony is someone next in line I find suspicious right now.

These are not good reasons to vote webadict.

Do you earnestly believe that these reasons make webadict scum? If you do I'm not sure I can believe you.

Sticking your neck out and boldly making claims about other players might make me read you as town if I thought the claims themselves held any amount of water.

Still need to hear from NQT and Jim Groovester... heyoo Jim, still voting you.

I don't think Jim is going to post today. He might be busy with IRL things.

Though, this makes me wonder if Lenglon is going to switch from shooting me N1, to shooting Jim N1 for "disengagement". Is the arrangement only a special order for me only? Or does it not discern?

Yep, not going to bother posting today.

See you on Day 2.

Being voted for liking RP,

👁👄👁

I think max doesn’t realize that people can change. Why would I act the exact same every game? That makes no sense, of course I’m going to be different every time. The last time you said I was mafia, I was town anyways. Your reasoning is flawed and unreliable.

Alright, I'll bite. How have you changed this game????????????

I’m… not scum? I mean, you can vote me, I guess. I’m kinda used to it at this point.

What happened to don’t shoot the medic?

Whatever, you will all be sorry when I bring my medkits to the grave with me muhahahaha

Apparently I completely missed that there are more abilities than just the one shot kills and one shot protects.

I honestly don't care about whatever doctor abilities you have. I think the abilities we know about i.e. the one shot kills everybody has are sufficient to solve the game without knowing any other parts of the setup so you can't convince me that your role is too valuable to not lynch.

I have no clue what you just said, I’m gonna be honest
no problem i fix

nightwing you say medic but tone say dont care and that bad guy say so why WE no red name YOU?

Well, the game literally just started, so I’m not that attached, I mean, I would prefer not to get voted. But what can you do?

Have you tried playing instead of consistently bemoaning why people find you suspicious?



notquitethere - lean town
webadict - lean town
ToonyMan - weak town because he's doing normal town things but my gut says he's faking but I have nothing specific to point to for my unease
Maximum Spin - I feel like this is probably town Maximum Spin
Lenglon - lean town
NJW2000 - lean a tick townier than null
Lidku - lean wtf is he doing
Knightwing64 - lean Knightwing64 is frustrated at playing mafia

I don't have town reads on Lidku or Knightwing64. Everybody else I feel pretty okay about it. If I ask myself does Lidku/Knightwing64 solve the game I can't answer yes but I also can't answer no either, which isn't that bad for me on Day 1.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 22, 2022, 08:46:01 pm
I forgot to post Metal Gear music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sIoRLm_9OY
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 08:51:28 pm
I feel like this is obvious at this point, but just to be totally clear, I never felt particularly strongly that Lenglon was suspicious for RPing, which is why I voted Knightwing, the one I was much more confident about, in that post. I mostly just called Lenglon out because I really don't like RPing and I want everyone to quit having fun because fun is a filthy parasite. I considered it a possibility that the RPing was a deliberate cover, but it was only a low-level suspicion and, at this point, I'd say it's become very much a minority concern for me.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 09:04:39 pm
Finally, I guess this is for Lidku too, but can you tell me why webadict's ... thing, I guess it's not strictly "roleplaying", but thing, is more likely to be town than Knightwing's? There is a reason. I want to see if you can see it.

Both of them have non-serious in their posting. webadict is marginally more "serious", but I still think he isn't posting anything meaningful. Even with Knightwing dropping the "RP", his posts are troll-like.
Okay, that's not the right answer either.

So can you say what you want me to infer and not beat around the bush? And my response to your comment wasn't really an answer on why you think webadict is more Town than Knightwing. It just me flatly saying both have non-serious and Knightwing acting troll-like.

And if you're not going to tell why, just don't bring it up again (shrug).

Quote from: Jim Groovester
These are not good reasons to vote webadict.

ToonyMan had the same reasons for voting for webadict (him acting strange and his posting-style), but switched it to Knigthwing. Generally, I find the coordinated initial vote to Knightwing really suspicious. Especially on the fact that webadict flip-flopped from voting Maximum Spin to voting Knightwing in a span of literal minutes of NJW asking for clarification from webadict.. literally the right post after.

although maybe i will also red knightwing because maybe max is right but he still wont let me go with

maximum spin is being mean to knightwing and he has a metal so i no hes a good guy otherwise i will be mad
...Are you saying Max is wrong about Knightwing's performance this game vs his scum meta?
maybe maybe not it really depend because sometimes knightwing do this you no?

That flip-flop alone I find really suspicious and webadict's "barbarian-posting" isn't really helping with my current opinion.

Which is why I'm keeping my current reads. It could be a web-max team or a web-toon team.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 09:10:27 pm
webadict - lean town
what the

why???

What's even the point of RPing a stupid barbarian if I get Townread by everyone for doing it, what the french fucking toast?!?

Well, everyone except Lidku, but, uh, I'm on Max's side here.

Anyway, I can't handle it anymore so I'll stop.

Max, something I'd like to point out is that Knightwing took a little bit of what we said last time he was scum and applied it here: He tried to play it a bit cool by ignoring us a bit. It's a bit circumstantial, but combined with his normal tendency to not comment on the gamestate, I've got odds on scum!Knightwing at about 90-95%, so I'm in if you are. I'm not even in favor of shooting you if you're wrong.

I think your idea on Lidku is pretty sound as well. I think he was given the ammunition to build a case on me that could work decently, but I think he's missing that extra oomph, and that's leaves him with a lackluster case.

@Lidku: I'd like to point out that flip-flopping is actually more of a Towntell than a scumtell, but the best indicator for any scum action is reasoning. What was my reasoning for flipping from Max to Knightwing? Calling it a flip-flop is, well, a bit overstatement, but the reasoning behind the flip-flop was solid, and it's why I think Toony and Max are Town. Going after me for the RP as obfuscation is a good plan, honestly, and it makes sense, but that's only said in a vacuum, and it becomes a little less viable in practice. There's nuance to everything!

Basically, if you wanna shoot me Tonight, that's fine. It haaaaappens. Guns go off for, like, literally no reason.

Also, it's in not a Max/Toony/Web team. I'm pretty sure all three of those are Town.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 09:22:45 pm
Max, something I'd like to point out is that Knightwing took a little bit of what we said last time he was scum and applied it here: He tried to play it a bit cool by ignoring us a bit. It's a bit circumstantial, but combined with his normal tendency to not comment on the gamestate, I've got odds on scum!Knightwing at about 90-95%, so I'm in if you are. I'm not even in favor of shooting you if you're wrong.
Well, you know me well enough to know that at this point I'm committed. If I was going to change my vote I would've done it by now.

Anyway, Lidku, the main thing you needed to see in webadict's posts is that he was making points, and often good ones, he just put them in silly decoration. Meanwhile, Knightwing, regardless of whether he said it silly or serious, was saying nothing. I will give you a little benefit of the doubt here: the fact that you apparently couldn't tell what I was getting at, either, suggests that you might just not have the experience to derive the esoteric part of the argument from the part that gets said out loud, which is understandable. I still think you're just defending your scumpartner though, sorry.

Back to webadict:
Also, it's in not a Max/Toony/Web team. I'm pretty sure all three of those are Town.
You know what, I think you might just be right.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 09:32:22 pm
Quote from: webadict
I'd like to point out that flip-flopping is actually more of a Towntell than a scumtell, but the best indicator for any scum action is reasoning.

Except for the fact that your flip-flop was 3 minutes after. 3 minutes. That's not reasonable as a scumtell and the fact you were "barbarian-posting" as to not adequately explain your case in that time after, is/was suspicious.

Quote from: webadict
What was my reasoning for flipping from Max to Knightwing? Calling it a flip-flop is, well, a bit overstatement, but the reasoning behind the flip-flop was solid, and it's why I think Toony and Max are Town

What reasoning? You were "barbarian-posting" and to me, nearly unintelligible in the majority of your posts. The flip-flop itself could have been you initially voting for Max, then Knightwing, to cast off suspicions that you both coordinating from a Mafia team chat.

And it's funny that you dropped your "act" after I confirmed I'd leave my vote on you. What happened to you only willing to drop it when someone specifically asked you to? Far as I can see, nobody did at all.

Quote from: Maximum Spin
I still think you're just defending your scumpartner though, sorry.

In contrary to that webadict, who you likely coordinated a vote with, isn't your current scumpartner? You and webadict seem particularly defensive and agree along with the same arguments.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 09:40:20 pm
Honestly. I am going to shoot Lidku if Knightwing is scum. I am probably not the only one. I think there is zero serious chance of Knightwing not being the lynch today, and in the unlikely event that this wagon evaporates, I'd only switch to Lidku, in which case the same logic re: shooting applies in reverse.

I'm just saying, there's no shame in giving up early to save everyone a little hassle.

the fact you were "barbarian-posting" as to not adequately explain your case in that time after, is/was suspicious.
(I understood the point perfectly.)
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 09:52:01 pm
And if Knightwing IS the lynch and he comes up Town, then mind regaling me on what you'd do next? Because it'd be suspicious if Knightwing comes up as Town and then per your declaration, you come at me N1 with a "Vig" (or Mafia) kill.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 09:56:21 pm
Knightwing: webadict has dropped his act so far, can you give a defense on your side on why you're acting so strange?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2022, 09:57:37 pm
And if Knightwing IS the lynch and he comes up Town, then mind regaling me on what you'd do next?
I try never to commit to a specific kill if someone flips town, because that just looks like scum lining up targets. If Knightwing flips town, assume I reconsider everything and then do whatever I conclude is best.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 10:10:44 pm
I just realized something:

( I like roleplay, it’s fun)

You accusing me of being a traitor, Max? Well you are darn tooting wrong, and I have the badges to prove it.


Knightwing64 shoves a Medal of Honor at Max, asserting dominance over the haters

ya ok i think knightwing took that metal from someone hes being reeeeeally suspishus

I went back in the thread and tried to find ANY reasoning on why webadict would find Knightwing suspicious during his "barbarian-posting phase". The only thing that I can connect was webadict being suspicious over Knightwing doing some italicized RP text toward Maximum Spin.

That's ONLY reasoning I could find and the reason why I'm leaving my vote on webadict. The weird coordination, in my opinion, leans "web-max" and Toon may have been just roped into going for Knightwing from web-and-max setting up that wagon. But I have some lingering suspicions on Toon still.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 10:11:56 pm
Quote from: webadict
I'd like to point out that flip-flopping is actually more of a Towntell than a scumtell, but the best indicator for any scum action is reasoning.

Except for the fact that your flip-flop was 3 minutes after. 3 minutes. That's not reasonable as a scumtell and the fact you were "barbarian-posting" as to not adequately explain your case in that time after, is/was suspicious.



What reasoning? You were "barbarian-posting" and to me, nearly unintelligible in the majority of your posts. The flip-flop itself could have been you initially voting for Max, then Knightwing, to cast off suspicions that you both coordinating from a Mafia team chat.

And it's funny that you dropped your "act" after I confirmed I'd leave my vote on you. What happened to you only willing to drop it when someone specifically asked you to? Far as I can see, nobody did at all.



In contrary to that webadict, who you likely coordinated a vote with, isn't your current scumpartner? You and webadict seem particularly defensive and agree along with the same arguments.
Point 1. Yes? I don't understand. I voted Maximum Spin and then I thought I'd try to see if Max was right and push Knightwing. I haven't seen you interact with the case in a positive way yet, and Max was starting right off the bat with it, which is a much higher risk for Maximum Spin to take, since he assuredly dies if he's scum at that point. Additionally, Knightwing hasn't really contributed at all. The best case you can make is that Knightwing started off neutrally and the pressure caused him to accidentally spew scum, but you're really focused on making this Max/web/Toony team work when you have to realize that at least one of those players has to be Town by virtue of there only being one scum.

So, you can't really make that team work, and forcing it to work is not going to get results.

Point 2. Well, yes, I was barbarian posting, but I had reasoning behind my posts. One the one hand, it's Day 1 + RVS + whatever, so it doesn't really matter what you really do Today. It's, ya know, not a big deal to me. Sometimes I fuck around, sometimes I find out. It just really depends on the Lunar calendar, phase of Ceres, my dog's horoscope, etc. The only thing that matters is whether or not you see progression through the Day. ToonyMan was right to vote me because I had done nothing until that point, and then I figured I'd had enough time to make a quick chart on how I felt about everyone at the time. That's when he changed, because I now had words that can be used to track my progression through the Day.

You'll notice that I even had you as likely Town, and then swapped that, and Max as likely scum and swapped that. It happens. I mean, I'm not expected to be right 100% of the time at the beginning of the Day. That's kinda nuts if I manage that. Heck, sometimes I'm not even right on Day 3. What you can flip-flopping is what Townies do when they either want to learn more or they realize they're wrong. That's how Mafia's played!

I dropped the barbarian act because the bit was tired at that point. Nothing more, nothing less. It's also really tiring to talk like that, instead of pompously and jackassedly.

Point 3. Well, if I'm gonna be partners with anyone, I'm glad it's both Toony and Max. 3 player scumteams are OP in 9 player games.

I am going to shoot Lidku if Knightwing is scum
I fixed for me. I'll probably still shoot Lidku even if Knightwing is Town.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 10:16:01 pm
Pst, Max, we gotta kill Lidku he's onto us.

Oh shoot, this is the wrong window. Max, can you copy this into our scum Discord for Toony so he can see it? That'd be really helpful, thanks.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 10:52:56 pm
Quote from: webadict
I voted Maximum Spin and then I thought I'd try to see if Max was right and push Knightwing.

So all within a span of 3 minutes? Even before Knightwing could really credibly respond at all? Maximum Spin later on claims his reasoning for voting due to "RP" was minimal variable, but I find that claim to probably a mask. I think he went for Knightwing instead of maybe, Lenglon, was because he probably knew it'd be easier to get Knightwing out the game.

And then after that, you set up a blank "RVS" vote for Max and set-off against Knightwing in a coordinated strike. It would have been less suspicious if you at least parsed some token questions toward Max first, THEN go onto Knightwing. But due to you doing your "barbarian-posting" at the time of doing so, you could easily skirt any line of questioning toward Max.

Quote from: webadict
but you're really focused on making this Max/web/Toony team work when you have to realize that at least one of those players has to be Town by virtue of there only being one scum.

Quote from: webadict
Point 3. Well, if I'm gonna be partners with anyone, I'm glad it's both Toony and Max. 3 player scumteams are OP in 9 player games.

Except you know exactly what I mean. I don't understand why you're phrasing it as if I LITERALLY mean a "3 team Mafia" when I'm obviously inferring something else, really unnecessarily disingenuous.

Either Max or Toon is Town, with YOU being my common suspicion as static Mafia. At the moment from what you already can tell, I'm betting on you and Max being on a team now.

Quote from: webadict
I fixed for me. I'll probably still shoot Lidku even if Knightwing is Town.

That's a really bad look if Knight flips Town on the lynch; then I die N1 and flip Town on the kill. I wonder how both you and Max will wiggle out some reasonings on D2.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 22, 2022, 10:56:43 pm
The Vest is used by the player automatically each night, and does NOT count as an action. Sorry this was unclear.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 22, 2022, 11:17:28 pm
Why are you so sure Knightwing64 is Town here? What has he done?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 11:29:56 pm
Why are you so sure Knightwing64 is Town here? What has he done?

I'm not sure on whether or not Knight is truly Town or Mafia. He's offline now and can't even answer my question on why he's acting the way he is. He was given ample time by others to do so, but he's chosen not to. Maybe he feels boxed-in out the gate and doesn't feel confident to continue on.

Just checking his profile to get a gist of his posting style from previous games, it seems when he's heavily dogpiled in votes he just gives up (from me skimming the BYOR 3 before he died in that game, where he voted for himself)? Him being noncommittal after Max and web seemingly coordinating a combined vote on him, along with Toony being indirectly railed into voting Knight next2, and then everyone after suspecting him, seems consistent behavior in how he acts.

To be honest, he's just a talking piece toward why I find Max's vote for him and your 3 minute flip-flop from Max to Knight suspicious.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 22, 2022, 11:50:10 pm
And that's also why I agree with NQT leaning on voting for you initially, as you knew it'd be easier to bully/get Knightwing64 voted off first. Easy target, easy wagon.

Maximum Spin
Aww, I didn't get to be scum again this time.

I don't like roleplay, so Knightwing and Lenglon are clearly the mafia.
Do you think it's an actual scumtell or are you going after an easy target?

Also, I'd like to come back to this from Maximum Spin:

I feel like this is obvious at this point, but just to be totally clear, I never felt particularly strongly that Lenglon was suspicious for RPing, which is why I voted Knightwing, the one I was much more confident about, in that post. I mostly just called Lenglon out because I really don't like RPing and I want everyone to quit having fun because fun is a filthy parasite. I considered it a possibility that the RPing was a deliberate cover, but it was only a low-level suspicion and, at this point, I'd say it's become very much a minority concern for me.

I honestly find Max's reasoning here VERY flimsy. His first post out the gate was to tag Knightwing with a vote, after feeling "strongly" for Knightwing over Lenglon: which is quite ridiculous since before that, Knightwing literally only made two posts. And they were both RP, along with Lenglon doing most of the "rp'ing" before that.

What exact strength, tell-wise, could Max get from Knightwing with only two posts at game start? Can't be RVS, since Max implies his vote toward Knight is "strong".

As a matter-of-fact, before you shifted interest on K64, even ToonyMan (who currently has a vote on Knightwing) leaned him as Town.

Hmm, I like your spunk NQT. You went above and beyond the call of duty with extra categories of reads.

I'm gonna say NQT is town. Knigtwing is probably town too though I need to see non-roleplay posts.

Like I said, I think Max choose to go for Knightwing over Lenglon because he knew Knightwing would lose confidence to be serious when he's perceived as being dogpiled on. His RP excuse, whether real along the lines of being a minor-factor in his vote decision, or a completely fake justification, was just a cover for the fact because he knew Lenglon would be more likely to defend/ask a reason for themselves being voted against.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 23, 2022, 12:01:03 am
I can't decide if Lidku is scum or this is another example of him committing (and then doubling and tripling down) to an incorrect, off-base case.

Knightwing: webadict has dropped his act so far, can you give a defense on your side on why you're acting so strange?
Why are you so sure Knightwing64 is Town here? What has he done?

I'm not sure on whether or not Knight is truly Town or Mafia.

I have a hard time balancing your opinions about all the players you think are scum for voting Knightwing64, and your actions regarding Knightwing64, and then this wishy-washy noncommittal opinion about Knightwing64 himself.

Like you've already picked out your scum team and want him to come in to defend himself but you preserve the possibility that Knightwing64 is scum?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 23, 2022, 12:07:54 am
To more directly get at the point I want to make,

All your actions say that you think Knightwing64 is town, but you leave open the possibility that you think he's scum, because perhaps you know that he is scum and don't want to be caught townreading your scum buddy when he flips.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 02:03:49 am
Quite frankly, I can't find anything noteworthy in the entire last several pages of posts (except for one thing that I don't feel like chatting about until tomorrow at the earliest). Everyone's positions seem settled and I haven't seen a single unexpected revelation. So I'm prepared to put KN64 at H-1 at this time. But considering his past history, and that others might still have something to get done today even though I don't, I'll hold off on placing said vote as a courtesy. But if I wake up to a KN64 hammer I do not mind.

here's a brief summary of what I'm seeing:

Lidku failing to parse Web's comments when Web speaks like Ogg do.

Jim seeing the same things as Web, who's seeing the same things as Toony, who's seeing the same things as Max, who's seeing the same things as... you get the picture.

Knightwing not bothering to anything, and making it so that even if they are town, there's no way scumhunting can progress until they're dead.

NQT / NJW standing off to the side and probing alternate possibilities from KN64 / Lidku (these two are by far the most interesting to my eyes. Not scummy, but interesting. I very much want to know what things look like through their eyes right now.)

wait a sec, what am I typing?

NJW and NQT: what do things look like through your eyes right now?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 23, 2022, 03:16:47 am
Target spotted, ENGAGE!

(3) Knightwing64: Maximum Spin, webadict, ToonyMan
(1) Jim Groovester: NJW2000
(0) notquitethere:
(1) Maximum Spin: Knightwing64
(1) webadict: Lidku
(0) Lidku:
(0) NJW2000:
(1) ToonyMan: notquitethere
(0) Lenglon:

Not voting: Jim Groovester, Lenglon

Five (5) to Hammer
Day ends August 24th at 0600 Hours EST, approximately 25 hours 44 minutes from now.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 23, 2022, 04:19:03 am
Hope you feel better soon EJ!

Toony, yeah I get making decisions about scumminess based on the flip. That's like half my MO as town, I don't have a problem with that. But what I don't see is the compelling linkages that make these imagined teams make sense. And what I don't want to see D2 is two dead townies due to some non-existent connection. But we can examine those future arguments if and when you make them tomorrow...



In the Demon game I thought attacking KW was low hanging fruit, that he was just a newbie. However...

I blame Toony. Besides, I think I could… wait lemme check
Delightful
Have that for some scum hunting

This is giving me some a real Demon Knight Wing feeling right now. He's like, 'uh oh I better do something'. KnightWing, is your vote on Max just an OMGUS? What's the reasoning here?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 23, 2022, 04:41:27 am
Honestly, ever since I started a new year of school, I do seem more low energy on the internet. I don’t know if it’s the increased amount of work or what, but you guys are right and I should probably work on that.


PS: I voted Max because they voted for me and I was mad. Literally, there was no higher brain processes involved,
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 06:51:49 am
Knightwing, what do you think about Lidku?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 23, 2022, 06:53:11 am
Ok, I suspect there is one scum in Lidku/Knightwing, though I'm not 100%. I guess that's what I'm choosing between, so that's what people would be actually interested in hearing from me about.

I do think I've found scum outside of Lidku/KW (spoilers: it's Jim!) so big post explaining that comes in a bit, but it's not finished and people are probably waiting on me due to timezones, so I'll do this quickly now.

Lidku
Lidku... seems genuinely indignant, and not currently master of himself. It's a tunnel on Web, but I can see how it evolved. The cases he's bringing up are weak, but Lidku is a newer player than people sometimes seem to realise, and they are actual cases.
Unless he's mounting a last distch defence of scum!KW because he's desperate to keep his partner and doesn't think he can solo, I can't see scum!Lidku acting this way. It'd be a slow-motion suicide started because... Lenglon said he was disengaged? From what I can tell, Lidku's made of sterner stuff.
I think Lidku is town.

Knightwing
Knightwing is showing his usual scumtells. Lack of engagement, no real interest in what other players are doing, despairing attitude, "you'll be sorry when you elim me".
There are one or two quibbles:
 1. This is slightly more engaged and positive than the usual scum!Knightwing. Sliiiightly. Not his most recent posts though.
 2. The medic claim. He wouldn't take the initiative to fakeclaim on his own. So scum!Knightwing has a partner that would tell him to claim doc, and we have to factor in how that makes sense. Toonyman, you have experience coaching Knightwing: how much does this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8401150#msg8401150) look like it could be produced by someone telling KW what to do?


Out of these two, I want Knightwing elim'd. He's more likely to be scum, less use than Lidku if not, and I think a doctor isn't necessarily a crucial town asset this game given all the kills. Hopefully that makes my position clear.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 07:02:09 am
Honestly, ever since I started a new year of school, I do seem more low energy on the internet. I don’t know if it’s the increased amount of work or what, but you guys are right and I should probably work on that.


PS: I voted Max because they voted for me and I was mad. Literally, there was no higher brain processes involved,
You know, there's a difference to me between you as scum and you as Town. I saw the Town you in BeBYOR 3, even though you were busy.

When you're scum, you forget to do the one thing that makes you easy to spot as Town: You forget to comment on the game state. You're doing it right there. I'm telling you this so you know it's why we think you're scum, and what you can do to change our mind.

You need to say things about who's scummy to you and we haven't really seen that. You need to say things about who you agree with and we haven't really seen that. Honestly, it's really that simple to me.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 07:09:02 am
I think Lidku is probably Town if Knightwing is Town. If Knightwing is scum, then maybe Lidku is scum, but debatable.

I'm worried that not enough people find me suspicious.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 23, 2022, 07:16:29 am
Ok, I actually do think Jim Groovester is scum. Because he's not really being aggressive.

I'll explain. There's something I've been looking for for a while, especially in the more aggressive players. It's something people have already figured out: town shouldn't care too much about being shot. Losing a town player isn't a huge deal in the scheme of things, there are seven of us. But for scum, losing one player more than halves their chances of winning, and losing a bulletproof vest is nearly as bad.

The point is: how does this manifest?

If they're scared of being shot, scum aren't going to be willing to anger anyone. So aggressive, in-your-face plays, powerwolfing, controlling the town by bullying players into doing what you say - it all goes out the window. Because that gets you enemies. You can control an entire vote through sheer willpower and brutality, Jim frequently does this. But you can't avoid creating malcontents, and in this setup, they matter. Because they won't disconnect from the game, they'll just wait for the night.

So which players are showing atypically low levels of aggression, and are very unwilling to paint a target on their backs?

Not Web or Toony, they're playing the way they usually do. Not NQT or Max, they're not that domineering in general. This tell isn't exactly made to catch Lidku or KW, there's plenty of information there in any case.

This leaves Lenglon and Jim Groovester. Both have aggressive and controlling D1s. They've both been uncharacteristically placid.

 I'm not so worried about Lenglon, because they said they'd be lower energy before the game started, and besides, they still come across as not caring much about what other players think of them. Lenglon breaks rp when it'd be inconvenient to do it for a readslist (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8401012#msg8401012) and claims they'll be bringing it back when they feel like it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8401037#msg8401037) when I thank them. So making it very clear they feel they have the right to disguise their tone as much as they like (although KW doesn't), and wouldn't stop because another player asked them to. Which is pretty staggering a strong indicator that they're not too worried about getting shot. So not Lenglon, they don't care too much about being shot.

Jim Groovester however... look at their posts. Is there anything to offend or irritate anyone? Anything aggressive?

His response to my question  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8401210#msg8401210)was very reasonable. The fact that I voted him twice while waiting for him to reply... he just noted I didn't need to do it. Nothing beyond that. This was essentially me inviting him to slap somebody. He didn't rise to it at all. Take a look:

Quote from: Jim
This was not worth voting me over to remind me to answer compared to just reminding me in bold for when I get around to posting.
Zero heat in response to me doing something stupid and annoying twice.

Is this town!Jim? I think it's somebody terrified of getting shot. The person he's poked hardest is Lidku, and Lidku's made it pretty clear where they're shooting tonight if they survive.

I'm not as confident about this as I was in the Demon mafia game, but if there's scum outside Lidku/KW, I'm definitely looking here first. I've read Jim well before, and I know his play from the notable games archive.

Sidenote: if their partner happened to be a very likely D1 elim, scum would be even less likely to risk getting shot at, because even a single shot from a town player would massively reduce their chances. So I think we might be on the right track.



I assume I'm not going to get a Jim elim today, so I'm willing to focus on what other people are actually talking about for a bit, i.e. KW and Lidku. Please do give this some thought though, because I've been mulling over this about this for half of D1.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 08:56:10 am
NJW, Jim hasn't shown logical-me any real scumtells, but he does bother emotional-me and I still don't know why. I'm willing to shoot him tonight if you want to coordinate shots.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 23, 2022, 09:36:25 am
I can't decide if Lidku is scum or this is another example of him committing (and then doubling and tripling down) to an incorrect, off-base case.

I have a hard time balancing your opinions about all the players you think are scum for voting Knightwing64, and your actions regarding Knightwing64, and then this wishy-washy noncommittal opinion about Knightwing64 himself.

Like you've already picked out your scum team and want him to come in to defend himself but you preserve the possibility that Knightwing64 is scum?

This is something I already broached at. I don't know if Knightwing is particularly Town or Mafia, which is why I lined up my question at him. I do marginally have Knightwing64 lean as Town, because to me, something genuinely puts me at ease with how webadict flip-flopped in a span of 3 minutes toward voting for Max, to voting for Knightwing (a vote initially started by Max himself).

There is also precedent for Town!Knightwing to act strange/give-in to a dogpile vote against him when he feels like there can be no defense against it (like his self-vote in the BYOR 3 game when he felt boxed-in).

I feel like a Scum!Knightwing would have been more serious off the bat and dropped RP more readily like Lenglon did, as to at least put up some defense/detraction from Max's tag-vote against him at game start. That means I don't agree with the majority of everyone's logic that "Knight must be Mafia because he hasn't put up reads yet". A discouraged (through what I think is a coordinated wagon) Town!Knightwing does not play well under pressure.. experienced players, such as Max and Webadict would know how to express and exploit that variable.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 23, 2022, 09:45:37 am
NJW, Jim hasn't shown logical-me any real scumtells, but he does bother emotional-me and I still don't know why. I'm willing to shoot him tonight if you want to coordinate shots.

You seem very liberal on who you want to shoot, Lenglon.

First you said you'd shoot my irregardless of the circumstance due to "disengagement".

When I became more engaged and asked you who'd you shoot next, you said K64 in the off-chance he somehow doesn't become the D1 lynch.

Now you're willing to coordinate a kill with NJW against Jim at a drop of a hat, because your "emotional" side?

Interesting.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 09:55:04 am
Lidku, I don't know where to start with you, but you'll have to assume that at least four people telling you your vote reasoning is bad might be a good launch point.

Like, no one cares that you're voting me. I get it. The problem is that your rationale is flawed to a high degree.

Let's pretend that flip-flopping is a scumtell (It's not, statistical evidence shows hard committing to votes On Day 1 is far scummier, but not the point), a flip-flop between posts in three minutes shows that there was some kind of thought that went on between posts. You don't really seem to take that into consideration. I even explain it in the post that I think Max's theory is worth exploring (I originally voted Max for a fast push on Knightwing, which felt a bit scummy at first, but then had a second thought when looking back at Knightwing, so I felt there was enough merit to continue.)

If flip-flopping were a scumtell (Again, it's not, but we're pretending), then its purpose would be to look like there was progress being made somewhere, so flipping in between posts would need to make no sense, which is somewhat valid here if you think Knightwing is Town or you think Max is scum, but it sorta feels like you started at these ideas and therefore concluded the vote makes no sense instead.

But, flip-flopping isn't a bad thing, so even if that were the case, your evidence has to be that my flip-flop reasoning is scummy, not that the flip-flop is scummy.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 23, 2022, 10:04:22 am
My updated reads:

NQT: Does not post often, but I get a Town-side manner from him.

NJW: Makes constructive posts and isn't afraid to deviate from wagoning

Lenglon: I don't know particularly, but slightly lean Town.

Jim Groovester: Does not post often, but when he does, makes very large analytical post-replies to things he finds interest in. Lean Town.

Knightwing: The current wagon and easy strike-down for a D1 lynch. Not definitive on whether he's particularly Town or Mafia, but I think he leans Town.

ToonyMan: I found him slightly suspicious for going along with the wagon against Knightwing, but it could be a case of him being indirectly influenced by Max and Web.

Maximum Spin: Very suspicious in his reasonings up until this point and is a skilled player. Whenever he feels pressured, he drops his formerly jovial and light-sarcastic tone to shift suspicion off of him. Which has he has been doing all game after I made my read of him. His post activity spiked after that.

I feel like a confident Town!Max would just toy and troll around with an inexperienced player like me... but he immediately off the bat is really serious and trying hard to defend himself. That makes me think Maximum Spin is Mafia even more.

webadict: I think he is a certainly a scum due his 3 minute flip-flop alone. I at first thought it could've been him and Toony, but I've shifted to Web-Max. I don't believe his claim that he dropped his "barbarian-posting" because he found that style of posting hard to do. I think he dropped it because I didn't relent on drawing a link between him and Max being on a team.

webadict in comparison to Max has been more "toyish" toward me in responses, but you can still see the line of cold-hard defensiveness toward my arguments. Like Max, I feel like a truly confident Town!webadict wouldn't go all out like this. Something is up.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 23, 2022, 10:34:10 am
Quote from: webadict
Lidku, I don't know where to start with you, but you'll have to assume that at least four people telling you your vote reasoning is bad might be a good launch point.

If nothing truly matters in D1 like you said before, no harm in going for the non-wagon route, right?

Quote from: webadict
Let's pretend that flip-flopping is a scumtell


It has in the past for me, when EuchreJack and Jim Groovester where in a team and EuchreJack at the last minute flip-flopped hammer'd Oliverz. You were the GM in that game, so I don't know why you blanket say it's not somesort of scumtell.. unless you have interest in obscurate your own reasons for flip-flopping. And it's cool that you just say STATISTICS out of nowhere to back-up your claims here (with no discernible statistics shown)...

Quote from: webadict
a flip-flop between posts in three minutes shows that there was some kind of thought that went on between posts.

A small 3-minute span between posts in your decision with changing votes shows you didn't put any thought into at all. Someone like NQT, who has changed their votes often this D1, with reasonable purposes for doing so and within an adequate span between posts, is someone to take example at.

But you, webadict? Your D1 post behavior seems coordinated and non-genuine. First Max in your initial vote, to make it seem like you both aren't teaming, then immediately after (only within a span of 3 minutes after your vote for Max), go after Knightwing.

Quote from: webadict
But, flip-flopping isn't a bad thing, so even if that were the case, your evidence has to be that my flip-flop reasoning is scummy, not that the flip-flop is scummy.

Except I primarily have attacked at your reasoning for flip-flopping. You and Max both know Knight would have been easy to crack under pressure and not play seriously after feeling he'd have a high chance of being lynched.

Then if he DID get lynched on D1, you'd both still be safe, because with both of your experience, you'd just be able to play off the mislynch quite easily. Just chalk it up under "RVS" or Town likely being lynched on D1 being an "unfortunate common occurrence".

The play-off would be even easier, considering how both you and Max have indirectly shifted all D1 interest to Knightwing being Mafia. With a large part of Town-base even voting for Knightwing, it'd be hard to readily back interest to the two of you, since the majority of Town easily fell-in to the line-of-thinking Knightwing might've been scum.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 10:39:21 am
Lol, okay, maybe this really is scum Lidku, what even are you taaaaaalking about?

I feel like you're either massively misinterpreting or misconstruing my actions, intentions, or how I play scum, but you're so wrong that the quadruple down here is bad, bad, bad. Would you like me to answer anything to better defend your vote or possibly change your mind? It can only benefit you.

Your readslist is better read as the following (you can copypaste mine, that's what I usually do with Toony's)

Everyone except web/Max: Townlean
Web/Max: Scum

You do realize that NQT also voted Knightwing too, right? That means at least two Townies voted Knightwing, no matter what. So why is only Toony the one that's being manipulated by Max and I? That's a weird take.

I dunno, it just feels like you hard committed to the Max/web line because it lets you not have to really defend your vote very hard when questioned on it. Maybe you're afraid of being accused of flip-flopping (which is actually why it turns out flip-flopping is more often done by Town, fyi)? I mean, that's what it feels like to me. Am I wrong? Your vote is for literally flip-flopping and not the reason why it occurred.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 23, 2022, 10:58:39 am
Quote from: webadict
You do realize that NQT also voted Knightwing too, right? That means at least two Townies voted Knightwing, no matter what. So why is only Toony the one that's being manipulated by Max and I? That's a weird take.

Something I already addressed:

Quote from: Lidku
With a large part of Town-base even voting for Knightwing, it'd be hard to readily back interest to the two of you, since the majority of Town easily fell-in to the line-of-thinking Knightwing might've been scum.

Toony and NQT have outright voted for Knightwing, but if you look at the rest of Town's post attitudes toward Knigtwing besides myself, you'll see EVERYONE at this point suspects Knightwing due to the wagon you and Max set up. Not just "Toony" as you're trying slyly to frame it. If you took at least a few seconds to read my other post right after my readslist, you wouldn't have asked this question in the first place.

Quote from: webadict
I dunno, it just feels like you hard committed to the Max/web line because it lets you not have to really defend your vote very hard when questioned on it.

Except I literally have been defending it hard, when questioned about or criticized about it multiple times? It's strange that you even say this, unless it's simply an attempt at soft misdirection.

And you have GM'd most of the Mafia games I've been in the past, webadict. You should by now that I never usually go out this strong on D1 at all. I'd only do this if something really tac'd my suspicions, which you have, webadict.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 23, 2022, 11:06:03 am
Ok, I actually do think Jim Groovester is scum. Because he's not really being aggressive.

:|

Is your argument really that I'm scum because I'm not being rude?

I've read Jim well before, and I know his play from the notable games archive.

:|

Your meta read is shit because it starts with 'I have a meta read on Jim'. I can't think of a recent game where I was caught because of a meta read. I got caught in Demon Mafia not because my meta was different but because Knightwing64 was scum and outted himself hard but I didn't want to make confirmed townies out of half the town so I tried to avoid suspecting Knightwing64 for as long as possible.

You also support your meta read by referencing games from TEN YEARS AGO IS THIS A JOKE

NJW, Jim hasn't shown logical-me any real scumtells, but he does bother emotional-me and I still don't know why. I'm willing to shoot him tonight if you want to coordinate shots.

:|

Everyone suspecting me has really fucking lame reasons.

webadict: I think he is a certainly a scum due his 3 minute flip-flop alone. I at first thought it could've been him and Toony, but I've shifted to Web-Max. I don't believe his claim that he dropped his "barbarian-posting" because he found that style of posting hard to do. I think he dropped it because I didn't relent on drawing a link between him and Max being on a team.

I'd read flip-flopping within three minutes as more of a town tell than a scum tell. It displays (but doesn't necessarily guarantee) genuine decision making vs calculated decision making to advance an agenda. I think you're wrong on this one.

Whenever he feels pressured, he drops his formerly jovial and light-sarcastic tone to shift suspicion off of him. Which has he has been doing all game after I made my read of him. His post activity spiked after that.
I think he dropped it because I didn't relent on drawing a link between him and Max being on a team.

You're overestimating how much you're affecting other people's behaviors.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 11:15:42 am
Take it as a compliment - I figure if you are scum I won't find anything on you. Also, I want to see if NJW will put his money where his mouth is.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 23, 2022, 11:24:23 am
I also credit you for trying to organize a shot like I encouraged you (and everybody) to do even though I am not particularly enthusiastic about the target you have in mind.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 11:30:07 am
I also credit you for trying to organize a shot like I encouraged you (and everybody) to do even though I am not particularly enthusiastic about the target you have in mind.
I admit to internally giggling about exactly this while I was proposing the shot. Your logic on the subject really is quite solid, be you town or scum. Like I said, I've got nothing on you myself, and don't really buy NJW's theory. I'm going 100% off gut instinct here. Logic is saying I should be suspecting NQT instead.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 23, 2022, 11:41:27 am
NJW, Jim hasn't shown logical-me any real scumtells, but he does bother emotional-me and I still don't know why. I'm willing to shoot him tonight if you want to coordinate shots.
Sounds good to me, let's do it.



@Jim: the meta comment is a bit cherrypicked there, although yes, I'll admit games from ten years ago aren't particularly good evidence. Nonetheless, the meta-read I have on you isn't really any more sophisticated than "Jim usually aggressive". On it's own, deviating from this wouldn't be grounds for a scumread, but in a setup where the mafia really don't want to be anyone's #1 target, it's suspect.

Besides, the fact that you haven't pressured anyone in a way that might lead to you being shot is not a meta-read, it's a fact about your play in the context of the set-up. You've only really put pressure on Lidku, and in a way that leaves me 99% sure town!Lidku shoots Toony, Web or Lenglon rather than you.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 23, 2022, 12:17:44 pm
'Jim hasn't even tried pissing people off enough to get shot'

I don't think this is a scum tell even in the context of this game.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 12:29:37 pm
Why are people suspicious of Jim? Maybe I can't read Jim well at all but I think he's town.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 12:32:39 pm
Lidku is trying really hard so I appreciate that regardless if they're partners with KW or not.

Looking forward to an interesting game if KW is town.

Because this game will be an extreme wet fart like Demon Mafia otherwise.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 23, 2022, 12:34:07 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/H4Isj8m.png)

Look, I've been wrong about this before in the past, I'm so borderline here. Someone give me a sanity check. Wuba, Jim, Anyone Else is the emotional blackmail scum!KW, or just lazy town!KW?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 12:35:03 pm
Why are people suspicious of Jim? Maybe I can't read Jim well at all but I think he's town.
The only people suspecting Jim atm are myself and NJW. And I will freely tell you right now that I do NOT have a good reason for it. The only actual case being pushed on him is NJW's case here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8401324#msg8401324).

In short, NJW believes that Town!Jim would be much more aggressive D1 than he has seen from Jim today.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 23, 2022, 12:44:33 pm
This is going to be my last post before I become inactive for quite a bit (job interview today).

ToonyMan, notquitethere, and NJW200: what do you think my full readslist?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 12:47:45 pm
Look, I've been wrong about this before in the past, I'm so borderline here. Someone give me a sanity check. Wuba, Jim, Anyone Else is the emotional blackmail scum!KW, or just lazy town!KW?
That particular tell? That specific one is lazy town!KW. I think KW is scum overall anyway however.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 23, 2022, 12:55:01 pm
Lidku
NQT: Does not post often, but I get a Town-side manner from him.
Been juggling other things but should be able to up my frequency in the rest of the game.

NJW: Makes constructive posts and isn't afraid to deviate from wagoning
Makes big posts. Not joining a wagon by the end of the day though is scum-sided play. We shall see.

Lenglon: I don't know particularly, but slightly lean Town.
What's giving you trouble assessing Lenglon?

Jim Groovester: Does not post often, but when he does, makes very large analytical post-replies to things he finds interest in. Lean Town.
I agree, Jim would be a bad pick for the D1 vote.

Knightwing: The current wagon and easy strike-down for a D1 lynch. Not definitive on whether he's particularly Town or Mafia, but I think he leans Town.
Did you see his play in Demon? I gave him the benefit of the doubt there and I was dead wrong.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

ToonyMan: I found him slightly suspicious for going along with the wagon against Knightwing, but it could be a case of him being indirectly influenced by Max and Web.
Do you think town!Toony would just sheep Max and Web?

Maximum Spin: Very suspicious in his reasonings up until this point and is a skilled player. Whenever he feels pressured, he drops his formerly jovial and light-sarcastic tone to shift suspicion off of him. Which has he has been doing all game after I made my read of him. His post activity spiked after that.

I feel like a confident Town!Max would just toy and troll around with an inexperienced player like me... but he immediately off the bat is really serious and trying hard to defend himself. That makes me think Maximum Spin is Mafia even more.
Like I said at the beginning of the game, I always find Max shifty. If KW is town, then I think Max has like a 85% chance at being scum.

webadict: I think he is a certainly a scum due his 3 minute flip-flop alone. I at first thought it could've been him and Toony, but I've shifted to Web-Max. I don't believe his claim that he dropped his "barbarian-posting" because he found that style of posting hard to do. I think he dropped it because I didn't relent on drawing a link between him and Max being on a team.

webadict in comparison to Max has been more "toyish" toward me in responses, but you can still see the line of cold-hard defensiveness toward my arguments. Like Max, I feel like a truly confident Town!webadict wouldn't go all out like this. Something is up.
I enjoyed his barbarian phase, I wish he stuck with it. Changing your mind frequently is a town tell, it's only when you never actually put pressure on anyone that it leaks into scum-sided behaviour.

Lenglon
That particular tell? That specific one is lazy town!KW. I think KW is scum overall anyway however.
I'll wait to see what other people say about this, but this is definitely an interesting angle to take here. I think you may be right that we would see this from a town!KW regardless.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 01:10:44 pm
Why are people suspicious of Jim? Maybe I can't read Jim well at all but I think he's town.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not sure. This one does seem like Town Jim...

Which means it's definitely scum Jim.

Look, I've been wrong about this before in the past, I'm so borderline here. Someone give me a sanity check. Wuba, Jim, Anyone Else is the emotional blackmail scum!KW, or just lazy town!KW?
Ehhhh, that's not the real emotional blackmail scumplay yet, but he hasn't convinced me that he's Town either.

Quote from: webadict
You do realize that NQT also voted Knightwing too, right? That means at least two Townies voted Knightwing, no matter what. So why is only Toony the one that's being manipulated by Max and I? That's a weird take.

Something I already addressed:

Quote from: Lidku
With a large part of Town-base even voting for Knightwing, it'd be hard to readily back interest to the two of you, since the majority of Town easily fell-in to the line-of-thinking Knightwing might've been scum.

Toony and NQT have outright voted for Knightwing, but if you look at the rest of Town's post attitudes toward Knigtwing besides myself, you'll see EVERYONE at this point suspects Knightwing due to the wagon you and Max set up. Not just "Toony" as you're trying slyly to frame it. If you took at least a few seconds to read my other post right after my readslist, you wouldn't have asked this question in the first place.

Quote from: webadict
I dunno, it just feels like you hard committed to the Max/web line because it lets you not have to really defend your vote very hard when questioned on it.

Except I literally have been defending it hard, when questioned about or criticized about it multiple times? It's strange that you even say this, unless it's simply an attempt at soft misdirection.

And you have GM'd most of the Mafia games I've been in the past, webadict. You should by now that I never usually go out this strong on D1 at all. I'd only do this if something really tac'd my suspicions, which you have, webadict.
Okey dokey, artichoke me, daddy.

Your point is that Max and I coordinated a vote on Knightwing by using evidence on why he's scum, and this worked because everyone thinks he's scum? Listen, that's not really Max's or my fault, is it? I put out solid reasoning on what Knightwing could do to make himself look Town, and, uh, he didn't do it. That's what he does as scum. He lurks, actively and passively. It's a hard habit to break, so I don't fault him for it. And if he stops lurking, he'll be fine.

The other thing I want to point out is that defending a vote really hard was not what I meant. I meant that your vote can push against any meaningful discussion by saying "Look, web has performed a scumtell. Thus, he is scum." So, it involves no rational thought behind it. It invokes no means to discuss. It cares not about why the scumtell was performed (Even though it is 100% not a scumtell, but let's get to that shortly.)

Conventionally, if I performed a scumtell, does that make me scum? If I perform a Towntell, does that make me Town? The answer to these questions is obviously no. Statistically, though, they're good indicators. Statistics are supporting measures, but they're not proof. What that means is that pointing out someone doing a scumtell is fine as a baseline for your argument, a great reason to suspect someone, but it's not proof that they're scum. You can pretend flip-flopping is a scumtell all you want, but you haven't proven that the rationale behind the flip-flop is scummy.

But, flip-flopping is not a scumtell. I'm not going to find the stats, but you can trust that NQT did the analysis on it and showed there was a higher correlation between vote swapping and Townie players.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 01:12:08 pm
webadict: I think he is a certainly a scum due his 3 minute flip-flop alone. I at first thought it could've been him and Toony, but I've shifted to Web-Max. I don't believe his claim that he dropped his "barbarian-posting" because he found that style of posting hard to do. I think he dropped it because I didn't relent on drawing a link between him and Max being on a team.

webadict in comparison to Max has been more "toyish" toward me in responses, but you can still see the line of cold-hard defensiveness toward my arguments. Like Max, I feel like a truly confident Town!webadict wouldn't go all out like this. Something is up.
I enjoyed his barbarian phase, I wish he stuck with it. Changing your mind frequently is a town tell, it's only when you never actually put pressure on anyone that it leaks into scum-sided behaviour.
A part of me wanted to, NQT. A part of me wanted to.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 23, 2022, 01:47:57 pm
This is going to be my last post before I become inactive for quite a bit (job interview today).

ToonyMan, notquitethere, and NJW200: what do you think my full readslist?
Eh... I don't agree with all of it, although I think I can see the thought process behind it.

If it's ordered according to reads, it's a bit strange that NQT is so high up there just on a gutread. I'd note that most of your townreads are kinda bare-bones... this is less of a readslist at times, and more of an "I suspect these three players". To be honest, I find that a fair bit more useful than a readslist, those are easy to make as scum.

I'll have another look at Max because I'm bad at reading anything from them, but I didn't see the tone change.
To be honest, I just think you're wrong about a lot of this, and slightly going down a rabbithole.

Not really sure what this question was about.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 23, 2022, 01:57:44 pm
Why are people suspicious of Jim? Maybe I can't read Jim well at all but I think he's town.
I ask a question here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180168.msg8401319#msg8401319) and answer yours shortly after.

tl;dr Jim is acting like he really doesn't want to get shot

Question: did KW's doc claim look like the result of someone coaching him to false-claim in a scumchat? Asking you because you've been scum with Knightwing a lot.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 02:09:58 pm
KW probably did the claim on his own. I didn't have much communication with KW when we shared a chat and it looked pretty similar in the KW/Jim chat. It's unlikely he's being directly told what to do, or listening, if mafia.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 02:11:49 pm
This is going to be my last post before I become inactive for quite a bit (job interview today).

ToonyMan, notquitethere, and NJW200: what do you think my full readslist?
I suspect Max and Web if you and KW are both town.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 23, 2022, 02:12:13 pm
Honestly, sometimes I forget that I'm actually decent at this game. When you guys are all going "I can't read Max, he's shady" and stuff, I get annoyed, but I have to remember that you're really right to suspect me. But actually - though I know you can't take my word for it - this time you have a secret decoder ring, as long as you know what happened to me in my last game — I simply would not, as scum, push a flimsy read on Knightwing again, right after doing so helped me blow the last game after a strong start. I'm a risk-taker as scum, but that would just be stupid given the trajectories of the last two BeBYORs.

Moreover, Knightwing is like Zen, okay? You have to just suddenly understand it, all at once. I can't put it into words to someone who doesn't already see it, but there's a clear difference between this Knightwing and Knightwing in the last BeBYOR where I did what I just said I did. All the people who I'd expect to see it - the people I have previously witnessed having that sudden spark of enlightenment - seem to see it. That doesn't mean we can't all be wrong, but it should really strongly convince you that we're not being unreasonable.

Re: KW's claim, last time (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180078.msg8394025#msg8394025), with Jim, he claimed part of his actual role.
tl;dr Jim is acting like he really doesn't want to get shot
I dunno, man, I really don't want to get shot either. I'm just kind of selfish like that.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 23, 2022, 02:21:22 pm
What I’m hearing from this is I’m a master of guilt tripping, I like to hear this as it fuels my ego

Yeah

Given I’m pretty sure I’m about to die, I’ll just put it out there that I have a heal ability with three uses that can prevent a death. I can use all 3 of them at one time, though not on myself and on different people.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 02:27:28 pm
Hmm...

I'm actually willing to unvote that one.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 02:28:47 pm
What I’m hearing from this is I’m a master of guilt tripping, I like to hear this as it fuels my ego

Yeah

Given I’m pretty sure I’m about to die, I’ll just put it out there that I have a heal ability with three uses that can prevent a death. I can use all 3 of them at one time, though not on myself and on different people.
Who do you think is suspicious?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 02:29:44 pm
Here, look, unvote. Now ya gotta do the thing, Knightwing. Ya gotta do the dance.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 23, 2022, 02:31:10 pm
Jim has been acting unusual, not as aggressive, I guess? Maybe I’m being fooled but Lidku has a point about Jim not being a asshole this game, which is very strange and weird for him
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 02:39:38 pm
Jim has been acting unusual, not as aggressive, I guess? Maybe I’m being fooled but Lidku has a point about Jim not being a asshole this game, which is very strange and weird for him
That wasn't Lidku that made that assessment, it was NJW2000. Anyone else?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 04:30:58 pm
Jim has been acting unusual, not as aggressive, I guess? Maybe I’m being fooled but Lidku has a point about Jim not being a asshole this game, which is very strange and weird for him
So do you think Lidku is town? This relates towards my question to you.

Who would you shoot tonight if you were around?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 23, 2022, 04:38:47 pm
Jim has been acting unusual, not as aggressive, I guess? Maybe I’m being fooled but Lidku has a point about Jim not being a asshole this game, which is very strange and weird for him
So do you think Lidku is town? This relates towards my question to you.

Who would you shoot tonight if you were around?

Maximum Spin, I think.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 05:23:51 pm
Who would you protect?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 23, 2022, 06:07:06 pm
Who would you protect?

Uh, You.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 06:11:16 pm
Why?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 06:11:27 pm
D1 Reads:

Town
Lenglon
Jim
Web
Max
NQT

I can't read ever
NJW

Mafia
Lidku
Knightwing


I doubt Knightwing is town considering I feel like I'm in Demon Mafia again agreeing with Max and Web about everything.

The difference is that I don't think Jim is with Knightwing this time. Lidku could be fighting hard to keep KW alive unlike Jim's more hands back approach. I think I always shoot Lidku here if KW is mafia.

If Knightwing is town? Then I think I still believe in Webadict...but I feel worse about Max. I also like Lidku more than NJW.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 06:13:39 pm
If there's some world where Webadict is mafia, then I think it's with Lenglon, not Max like Lidku has been saying. Max is town if Web is mafia.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 06:21:20 pm
For comparison, here are my D1 reads during Demon's Mafia (Jim and Knightwing were mafia):
D1 Reads

Townie
Max - actively hunting, thinking
Web - same as Max (why don't they like Jim?)
Tric - claimed miller!
Hector - really laying out their thoughts, don't think they're phony
Jim - feels good

Null
NJW - he's being mean, probably town

Mafia
NQT - Mr. bad plans, did they get stuck with KW this time?
KW - he's mafia, if he's not then that means me, Max, and Web are all wrong on our read which seems bad
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 23, 2022, 06:23:08 pm
Why?

Dunno, he seems trustable this time.



Seriously Toony? It isn’t like you to be wrong so many times in a row.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 23, 2022, 06:27:55 pm
For comparison, here are my D1 reads during Demon's Mafia (Jim and Knightwing were mafia):
Hmm, doesn't that mean you should be most suspicious of one of your townreads this time? It would be most straightforward to say that Jim still fills the same role as Jim (certainly, Web and I are doing the same thing as that time), but maybe NQT or Lenglon could be the new Jim this time, since Lidku is filling in the NQT slot on your old list.

I don't really think it's that direct a comparison, but it's interesting to think about.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 06:31:26 pm
@Knightwing:
Seriously Toony? It isn’t like you to be wrong so many times in a row.
I...when have I been wrong about you? You won't even take my advice to show me how a mafia!Max is setting you up like in the previous game I wasn't a part of. You could literally pull examples from that game about how you're town like in that game. Or you could prove I've been wrong about you more than I have been right, but do you really want to go back and check? Because I bet the result won't be in your favor.

@Max:
For comparison, here are my D1 reads during Demon's Mafia (Jim and Knightwing were mafia):
Hmm, doesn't that mean you should be most suspicious of one of your townreads this time? It would be most straightforward to say that Jim still fills the same role as Jim (certainly, Web and I are doing the same thing as that time), but maybe NQT or Lenglon could be the new Jim this time, since Lidku is filling in the NQT slot on your old list.

I don't really think it's that direct a comparison, but it's interesting to think about.
It is interesting to think about. I admit I'm subconsciously against a Jim/Knightwing scum team again due to Gambler's Fallacy even though I was scum with KW multiple times in a row.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 23, 2022, 06:40:48 pm
It is interesting to think about. I admit I'm subconsciously against a Jim/Knightwing scum team again due to Gambler's Fallacy even though I was scum with KW multiple times in a row.
I'm subconsciously against it too, but not so much for the Gambler's Fallacy reason, as that I think Jim would be handling it differently this time.
That said, I think I said that about YOU back then, too.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 07:34:25 pm
Who would you protect?

Uh, You.
...

Dunno, he seems trustable this time.
...

?

I don't really believe you on that. That makes no sense and sounds way too much like trying to buddy me. It's bad. You could be picking literally anyone, like NJW or Lidku or... Really, anyone, but I'm just not sure why you'd say me.

If I had to guess, I think you being a Doctor is probably true. But, I think scum having a Doctor is entirely plausible.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 23, 2022, 07:42:09 pm
It’s true lol, I sense a distinct lack of asshole energy from you, so I guess that kinda made me think better of you, I guess.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 07:54:55 pm
It’s true lol, I sense a distinct lack of asshole energy from you, so I guess that kinda made me think better of you, I guess.
That doesn't make me Town, though.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 23, 2022, 08:04:52 pm
It’s normally a sign of a townie, at least in my book. Although, you being nice could be because your scum and are trying not to get shot
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 08:27:27 pm
It’s true lol, I sense a distinct lack of asshole energy from you, so I guess that kinda made me think better of you, I guess.
That doesn't make me Town, though.
If anything, asshole!Webadict is a towntell.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lidku on August 23, 2022, 08:31:03 pm
It’s true lol, I sense a distinct lack of asshole energy from you, so I guess that kinda made me think better of you, I guess.
That doesn't make me Town, though.
If anything, asshole!Webadict is a towntell.

And the contrary to webadict not acting like an asshole, is a scumtell?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: webadict on August 23, 2022, 08:33:45 pm
It’s true lol, I sense a distinct lack of asshole energy from you, so I guess that kinda made me think better of you, I guess.
That doesn't make me Town, though.
If anything, asshole!Webadict is a towntell.

And the contrary to webadict not acting like an asshole, is a scumtell?
You could say that. If you think that I don't wildly change my meta each game so that no one can tell anything about any of my alignments.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 11:00:02 pm
NJW: now that you've had a chance to threaten Jim with exactly what you were proposing he's actively avoiding, what's your thoughts about him and his reaction to this situation?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 11:00:42 pm
figured enough time has passed (and end of day is coming up) that if you were going to get anything more than this, it'd have happened by now.

Do you still want Jim shot?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 23, 2022, 11:01:43 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n8m4j7MKAs

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

lmao

Look, I've been wrong about this before in the past, I'm so borderline here. Someone give me a sanity check. Wuba, Jim, Anyone Else is the emotional blackmail scum!KW, or just lazy town!KW?

I've got mixed thoughts. Knightwing64's emotional appeals looked much closer between Demon Mafia and Beginner BYOR 3 than they do Demon Mafia and this game. In this game Knightwing64 seems disinterested compared to panicked and distraught.

Until everybody dragged it out of him he wasn't providing any thoughts about the game, which is probably more relevant for the read than the attempts or lack thereof of emotional manipulation.

If I had to say whether I thought Knightwing64 was more likely to be town than scum I'd probably have to say scum.

tl;dr Jim is acting like he really doesn't want to get shot

The NERVE

Jim has been acting unusual, not as aggressive, I guess? Maybe I’m being fooled but Lidku has a point about Jim not being a asshole this game, which is very strange and weird for him

This really doesn't come across as authentic to me since it sheeps a read exactly one player has and it's not even a particularly good read either.

I doubt Knightwing is town considering I feel like I'm in Demon Mafia again agreeing with Max and Web about everything.

The difference is that I don't think Jim is with Knightwing this time. Lidku could be fighting hard to keep KW alive unlike Jim's more hands back approach. I think I always shoot Lidku here if KW is mafia.

If Knightwing is town? Then I think I still believe in Webadict...but I feel worse about Max. I also like Lidku more than NJW.

Agreeing with large parts of this.

If it's Knightwing64 I think Lidku makes decent sense as his partner. If it's not Knightwing64 then Lidku is highly likely to be town. Roughly on the same page about where to look if it's not Knightwing64.



So anyways Knightwing64 is where I'm at for today.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Lenglon on August 23, 2022, 11:02:28 pm
lol @ timing.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: ToonyMan on August 23, 2022, 11:36:41 pm
Everybody tonight (https://youtu.be/r2ZIdmfMc5o)
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 24, 2022, 01:45:54 am
Enemy Asset DESTROYED! Return to Base!

(3) Knightwing64: Maximum Spin, ToonyMan, notquitethere
(1) Jim Groovester: NJW2000
(0) notquitethere:
(1) Maximum Spin: Knightwing64
(1) webadict: Lidku
(0) Lidku:
(0) NJW2000:
(0) ToonyMan:
(0) Lenglon:

Not voting: Jim Groovester, Lenglon, webadict

Five (5) to Hammer
Day ends August 24th at 0600 Hours EST.  Approximately 3 hours 15 minutes from now.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 24, 2022, 01:51:19 am
Five (5) to Hammer
Day ends August 24th at 0600 Hours EST.  Approximately 3 hours 15 minutes from now.

Oh.

(3) Knightwing64: Maximum Spin, ToonyMan, notquitethere

. . .

Five (5) to Hammer

Okay.

Knightwing64.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: NJW2000 on August 24, 2022, 04:19:44 am
Just woke up… I still want Jim, yes. Once I point out the tell, he’s strong enough to account for it in his play, so while he looks better, it’s not enough. In demon mafia, he largely stopped trying to power wolf after I pointed out he was doing it. Sorry this is basic, still rubbing sleep out my eyes

I will reread the thread to check I’m not missing something obvious, but failing a huge realisation, yeah, I want Jim.

What about you, Lenglon? Would be happy to hammer KW but would ideally like a reply to this.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 24, 2022, 04:37:30 am
….


Are you serious?

Fucking hell, why do I keep being voted out d1

It’s legitimately annoying at this point 😭

Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: Knightwing64 on August 24, 2022, 04:38:59 am
I’m not even attempting to guilt trip anyone, I’m actually just pissed off
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: EuchreJack on August 24, 2022, 05:01:32 am
End of Day
Everyone stop talking!
Write-up soonish
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - Night 1 - Murder under Moonlight
Post by: EuchreJack on August 24, 2022, 06:43:15 am
So you think Knightwing64 is part of the Mafia? We'll check it out...

After the mission, Maximum Spin, ToonyMan, notquitethere, and Jim Groovester suggest to HQ that Knightwing64 is Mafia.

A through investigation reveals the following:
Quote from: Armed Forces Mafia - Town Medic
Role: Medic
Alignment: Town
Ability: Do No Harm - You do NOT get a gun
1-shot bulletproof vest (auto-self) - Prevent one kill during the game.
3-shot medkit - Prevent one kill during the night phase, usable three times, no limit on number that can be used per night.

Knightwing64 was TOWN

Ok soldiers, get some sleep before the next mission.

Everyone keeps their service weapon ready for the Night Phase.
Since you all have Night Actions available, I would appreciate a PM from everyone.  If I receive everyone's PM early, I might be able to process the turn early. If I receive no PM  before the End of Night, I'll assume you do NOT want to act.

It is Night 1. Night ends at 0745 Hours August 25th, 2022.  Approximately 24 Hours from now.  Please refrain from posting in thread until you get an announcement that it is Day.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: EuchreJack on August 24, 2022, 09:59:29 pm
ROLL CALL!

Not everyone survived the night. Your unit is ordered to Rest & Resupply for the next Mission.

The following players are MIA.
Jim Groovester (Town-Grunt)
webadict (Town-Grunt)
Lenglon (Town-Grunt)

Quote
Role: Grunt
Alignment: Town
Ability: 1-shot gun - Once during the game, kill one player of your choice during the night phase.
1-shot bulletproof vest (auto-self) - Prevent one kill during the game.
Win-Con: You win if all Mafia are eliminated.

(0) notquitethere:
(0) Maximum Spin:
(0) Lidku:
(0) NJW2000:
(0) ToonyMan:

WARNING! This is LYLO!
Three (3) Votes to Hammer.
End of Day is 2300 Hours EST (11PM EST) August 27th, Approximately 72 Hours from now.

DAY BEGINS NOW!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Lidku on August 24, 2022, 11:14:16 pm
The Town is going to have isolate who among the individual three was killed by the Mafia, and who among the Town killed the other individual two based off suspicion.

I'll start:

I was the one that shot Lenglon on N1. I did it out of the thought that she may have been a partner with Maximum Spin. I just got a feeling that Maximum Spin was strangely favoriting them over Knigthwing in his decision on voting. I also shot at them out of the fact that I didn't trust they were NOT going to shoot me, irregardless on whether Knigtwing flipped Town of Mafia.

I also found it suspicious that they refused to not share relevant information she was thinking about on D1:

I am happy about certain things that I'm NOT seeing today, and I'm going to avoid bringing them up specifically to avoid making them happen. If I'm alive tomorrow I might talk about them then. might not even then.

Mind you, they also had some form of thought they were going to die on N1 (which at the time of now, was a correct prediction). If they were so certain that they were likely to die on N1, why withhold on information that could help Town so it wouldn't be lost? And then she later implied that even further along in the game, that she probably wouldn't it for whatever reason. I thought that was really scummy (but turns out my suspicion was wrong).

Though the fact that Lenglon died, means someone else also shot at her, along with me on N1.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 24, 2022, 11:40:41 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHr3ag7B410
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Lenglon on August 25, 2022, 12:02:57 am
https://youtu.be/f-J0nwZz_fo?t=17
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 02:53:53 am
Holy shit it's lylo.

I shot Web last night. I was this close to shooting Max last night instead.

I convinced myself last night that Lidku and Jim were town, and I'm extremely upset about Jim.

I wrote notes but they're on my work laptop and I passed out when I got home let me grab them right now.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 03:05:43 am
Spoiler: N1 notes (click to show/hide)

Though the fact that Lenglon died, means someone else also shot at her, along with me on N1.
Webadict shouldn't have died either with just one shot.

I really think you're town Lidku, and find Max the most likely to be mafia now. I believe if Max is mafia it's with NJW or NQT, although that sounds dumb now since they're the only ones left besides you and me.

I'm sorry about shooting you Web, you're a good player and I couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 03:37:37 am
Lenglon and NJW both agreed to shoot Jim in the thread so that's a good guess why he's dead. That leaves at a minimum two shots unaccounted for beyond shenanigans.

My gut feeling is that it really is just Max/NJW like I said.

@Max:
I need your insight, what are your thoughts on NQT and NJW? Which is scummier if you had to pick?

@NQT:
We need data!! We need graphs!! Go go go!!

@NJW:
Do you still suspect Lidku?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: NJW2000 on August 25, 2022, 05:35:33 am
Yeah, I shot Jim. I assume Lenglon did too, though it would have been helpful if they made that clear rather than just asking me if I was sure >:(

Evidently, not wanting to get shot is a bit more reasonable than I thought it was. I should not be allowed to kill people D1, it never goes well.


@NJW:
Do you still suspect Lidku?
I was townreading Lidku at the end of yesterday, I think that's pretty clear from my posts. Obviously that's something I'm going to have to look at again, but...

Not a great start, Toony.


The Town is going to have isolate who among the individual three was killed by the Mafia, and who among the Town killed the other individual two based off suspicion.

I'll start:

I was the one that shot Lenglon on N1.
Hold on, you shot Lenglon?

Because she... was a plausible partner for Max? And because she said she was withholding information?

There are thousands of reasons to withhold information as town - EuchreJack literally told us the game had specialised power roles, and Knightwing's flip confirmed it. And if you think Max is likely scum... shoot Max. Looking over your posting history, this doesn't really make any sense. Can you tell me roughly when you decided Lenglon was scummier than Web?

Also, did you think someone else was going to shoot her with you?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 05:39:20 am
I shot Lenglon. No apologies.

I thought this yesterday but allowed myself to discard the thought: Verily it is written, if webadict and ToonyMan aren't fighting, at least one of them is scum. I also can't quite believe that everyone who voted Knightwing would be town when web and I both screwing up like that fell into the mafia's laps.

(I still maintain that he acted like scum Knightwing to the end, which has me deeply concerned. You better believe you got what you wanted in that people aren't going to vote you out so easily next time, but like I said back when I had a lapse of faith in Demon Mafia, you're supposed to achieve that by getting better, not worse!)

I assume I'm probably going to get lynched today unless the team is exactly ToonyMan/Lidku, so congratulations to the mafia.

I need your insight, what are your thoughts on NQT and NJW? Which is scummier if you had to pick?
NJW scores one point higher in Scrabble, so that makes him one point scummier, unless NQT is on a special multiplier spot.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: notquitethere on August 25, 2022, 05:47:43 am
I tried to work out who was most likely to shoot whom based on what they had said. I expected to be wrong about some of them but here's the list I made:

notquitethere - no one N1
Jim Groovester - Probably Lidku
Maximum Spin - Not Toony.
webadict - Not Lidku. Possibly Max.
Lidku - Max or Web
NJW2000 - Jim
ToonyMan - "Will shoot Max is KW is town"
Lenglon - "My current target is likely to be Lidku regardless of Knightwing's flip"

If everyone acted to type, Lidku should have been shot at least once by one of the dead players. I'm honestly surprised he's alive. How many times did you get shot Lidku?

Similarly, Max was a top target on D1, so I'm surprised to see him walking around today as well. Did you get shot at all, Max?

We know that there were at least six shots taken OR mafia can bypass shields and there were at least 5 shots (one mafiakill, four other shots).

We have the following claimed kills:

Lidku - Lenglon
NJW2000 - Jim
ToonyMan - Web

Which means that the existing kills could be accounted for if all the dead players played ball. Something like:

Lenglon - Jim
Jim Groovester - Web
webadict - Lenglon

But I don't think that's likely at all when 2/3 dead players said they'd target Lidku. What's more likely is something like:

Lidku - mafiakill Lenglon
NJW2000 - Jim
ToonyMan - Web
Max - Medic Lidku
Lenglon - Lidku
Jim Groovester - Web
webadict - Jim

-

I'm going to wait on Max, but right now, I'm thinking:

Toony - Town
NJW - Probably town
Max - Probably scum
Lidku - Scum

- PPE Max ninja. This changes things, will make a second post before I get ninja'd again
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 25, 2022, 05:53:10 am
Quick aside before I address Max's post. In case anyone is wondering why I saved my shot, I laid out my reasoning in my first post of the game:

Spoiler: Some Theorising (click to show/hide)

I figured that I was neither hated enough by other town players nor would I be considered the most active poster likely to be nightkilled by the mafia, so given I was likely to survive until D2, waiting until the pool was smaller and there was more info before shooting the shot made a lot of sense to me. I think we can all see the effect of shooting blindly.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 05:53:23 am
Similarly, Max was a top target on D1, so I'm surprised to see him walking around today as well. Did you get shot at all, Max?
Not at all, apparently. This isn't surprising. Mafia would want me to take the fall for misreading Knightwing.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: NJW2000 on August 25, 2022, 06:04:19 am
Uh... So I guess the vote is giving us some clears. Or scum just can't be arsed to hammer, but yeah.

We're at MYLO. Careful with votes. Especially if you've proven yourself unable to read the damn thread.

With someone else, I'd yell at them. But Max is generally pretty sure of themselves, and can't be bullied into changing their mind... whatever their alignment, I think we can conclude they're 100% ok with a Toony elimination today.

NQT: Lenglon had a bargain with me to shoot Jim. Reread the thread.

Ok, I think I know who scum is.



Toonyman
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: notquitethere on August 25, 2022, 06:04:23 am
Spoiler: Guff (click to show/hide)



Toonyman
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 06:10:04 am
Unvote me right now
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 06:11:22 am
I doubt both of you are mafia, Max will hammer me

I'm at work this isn't how a game should end
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 06:12:29 am
Unvote me right now
Uh, I believe it is in fact too late. I voted you first.

Genuinely curious to see how this goes.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 06:14:11 am
Oh I didn't see that

Fuck you NJW you idiot
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 06:48:45 am
NQT voting Max really threw me off, so well played NQT.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 06:54:30 am
Oh I didn't see that

Fuck you NJW you idiot
NQT voting Max really threw me off, so well played NQT.
Dude.

It's really not me.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 06:56:39 am
Noooo that's even wooorse
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 07:02:23 am
Noooo that's even wooorse
... yeah. Yeah, it is.  :-\
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: notquitethere on August 25, 2022, 07:17:15 am
Haha, I did think I played well on D1: active enough with a good range of suspicions, set up Max for D2, not so forceful that I made any town enemies. But you don't need to play incredibly well when town are dead set on killing one another.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 07:21:05 am
Haha, I did think I played well on D1: active enough with a good range of suspicions, set up Max for D2, not so forceful that I made any town enemies. But you don't need to play incredibly well when town are dead set on killing one another.
Nah, you definitely deserve some credit.

I mean, it sure is a good thing my vote doesn't actually count today, though.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 07:30:55 am
Haha, I did think I played well on D1: active enough with a good range of suspicions, set up Max for D2, not so forceful that I made any town enemies. But you don't need to play incredibly well when town are dead set on killing one another.
Nah, you definitely deserve some credit.

I mean, it sure is a good thing my vote doesn't actually count today, though.

Loooooooooool
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 07:33:11 am
Is Max actually a Giga Chad?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 07:40:36 am
Is Max actually a Giga Chad?
I wish. Nah, I'm just messing with them. I hope they wet themselves in scumchat though.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: NJW2000 on August 25, 2022, 07:45:09 am
I had been speculating about it in scumchat, but stopped before you claimed your vote was null. This just doesn't feel like a setup with vote manipulation, so it wasn't a real concern.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 07:48:32 am
I don't know why Max voted me so quickly. We were probably screwed either way but now we got to enjoy a 3 hour long Day 2. I actually wrote "NJW and NQT is possible" in my second post today but deleted it, whatever.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 07:51:50 am
I don't know why Max voted me so quickly.
I found this post (especially the questions) incredibly scummy, mainly:
Lenglon and NJW both agreed to shoot Jim in the thread so that's a good guess why he's dead. That leaves at a minimum two shots unaccounted for beyond shenanigans.

My gut feeling is that it really is just Max/NJW like I said.

@Max:
I need your insight, what are your thoughts on NQT and NJW? Which is scummier if you had to pick?

@NQT:
We need data!! We need graphs!! Go go go!!

@NJW:
Do you still suspect Lidku?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 07:55:31 am
I had been speculating about it in scumchat, but stopped before you claimed your vote was null. This just doesn't feel like a setup with vote manipulation, so it wasn't a real concern.
I don't think I've literally won any game you've been mafia, so congrats. I have a hard time reading you because you're stubborn and pursue people exactly the same as either alignment to me.

I don't know why Max voted me so quickly.
I found this post (especially the questions) incredibly scummy, mainly:
Lenglon and NJW both agreed to shoot Jim in the thread so that's a good guess why he's dead. That leaves at a minimum two shots unaccounted for beyond shenanigans.

My gut feeling is that it really is just Max/NJW like I said.

@Max:
I need your insight, what are your thoughts on NQT and NJW? Which is scummier if you had to pick?

@NQT:
We need data!! We need graphs!! Go go go!!

@NJW:
Do you still suspect Lidku?
I wanted more information from players I suspected.

I'll be honest my question towards you was to get a tell of who your partner was, but either way.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: NJW2000 on August 25, 2022, 08:02:34 am
Thanks... I tend to have quite weak D1s as town as well, so I think that meta plays in my favour as scum.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: webadict on August 25, 2022, 08:05:13 am
Knew it.

I'm the one that shot NJW.

I figured it wasn't possible to be Max or Toony unless it was Max AND Toony (and Max was defo Town). It couldn't be Lidku. It definitely wasn't Jim or Lenglon, fucking lol. I couldn't decide who out of NJW or NQT to shoot, so I went with the more obvious one, since his case was made out of garbage.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (9/9) - HQ is organizing a new unit...
Post by: notquitethere on August 25, 2022, 08:07:29 am
Lenglon, quite astutely picked up a dynamic of the scum players not fully participating in the current town on town drama, but didn't recognise it for what it was:

NQT / NJW standing off to the side and probing alternate possibilities from KN64 / Lidku (these two are by far the most interesting to my eyes. Not scummy, but interesting. I very much want to know what things look like through their eyes right now.)

wait a sec, what am I typing?

NJW and NQT: what do things look like through your eyes right now?
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 25, 2022, 08:11:08 am
I wanted more information from players I suspected.

I'll be honest my question towards you was to get a tell of who your partner was, but either way.
Yes, and your absolute conviction that I was scum after apparently agreeing with me about Knightwing, coupled with the way the question constrains who I'm allowed to think is scummy, made me think "town Toonyman wouldn't be this wrong".

I didn't think it was you until you started the "Scum Max, how dare you mislead me into lynching poor Knightwing!" thing, as if you hadn't made that decision yourself. Especially once you said you'd shot webadict and he was town, but you thought that made me the only possibility left instead of thinking maybe that meant the whole theory was barking up the wrong tree.

The other thing about that post that rubbed me the wrong way was the total softball at NQT. As I've said before, I don't even think data and graphs are beneficial. It felt like you were trying to justify including all three people in the post, and also maybe trying to obscure who your partner was by forcing me to wonder whether you were partners with NQT or just wanted it to look like you might be.

I will also admit that, when I voted you, I hadn't bothered to think about hammers existing. I basically never vote with that in mind, it just doesn't register for me. That was, in reverse, a major way I blew my last game too. (And trust me, I'm definitely not implying I deserve any credit over you here. I don't think any member of town deserves any credit today.)
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: notquitethere on August 25, 2022, 08:13:33 am
Also, if you all hadn't killed the player claiming the only doctor role, Web would have survived (KW said that was the intended target) and might have carried the game D2.

Town NQT would have tried to save KW as a potential town asset, but obviously I wasn't going to do that in this game.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 08:27:11 am
Lenglon, quite astutely picked up a dynamic of the scum players not fully participating in the current town on town drama, but didn't recognise it for what it was:

NQT / NJW standing off to the side and probing alternate possibilities from KN64 / Lidku (these two are by far the most interesting to my eyes. Not scummy, but interesting. I very much want to know what things look like through their eyes right now.)

wait a sec, what am I typing?

NJW and NQT: what do things look like through your eyes right now?
When I was re-reading that's the exact post that made me think NJW/NQT was possible.

I'm really miffed Lenglon and Jim were killed the most.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 08:29:28 am
Also, if you all hadn't killed the player claiming the only doctor role, Web would have survived (KW said that was the intended target) and might have carried the game D2.

Town NQT would have tried to save KW as a potential town asset, but obviously I wasn't going to do that in this game.
Maybe

Knightwing

Should have played
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Lenglon on August 25, 2022, 09:17:08 am
Huh. I hadn't expected you to be the other one who shot me Max.

Well played Njw/Nqt.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: webadict on August 25, 2022, 09:31:23 am
Also, if you all hadn't killed the player claiming the only doctor role, Web would have survived (KW said that was the intended target) and might have carried the game D2.

Town NQT would have tried to save KW as a potential town asset, but obviously I wasn't going to do that in this game.
Maybe

Knightwing

Should have played
Yeah, listen, I'm not gonna say that I fully read Knightwing as Town or anything, but... like... It was mainly his fault he got voted. I think he got disappointed that he got voted again, but, like, he definitely looked scummy. I think a lot of that had to do with him being a Doctor, so that may have been the biggest issue.

I was on the fence about Knight, and then I never got around to posting because who starts and ends a Day at 6:00 AM??? And there wasn't really enough time to do anything about that. I was never going to be able to convince myself to defend Knightwing, or vote anyone else, so it was never a bad idea to vote out Knightwing, so saying that would've saved me is, well, wrong. But, that's not the point anyway, I'm actually glad this game is done so we can play the next game and get one closer to Supernatural.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Lenglon on August 25, 2022, 09:33:54 am
4am day start/end my current timezone. I was asleep for it.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: EuchreJack on August 25, 2022, 09:47:32 am
Mafia team of NJW2000 and notquitethere has killed off enough members to take over the unit, enforcing a new order of drugs & hookers.

Sargent NJW2000 has been promoted to Lieutenant!
Private notquitethere has been promoted to Sargent!

Real shame about Sargent ToonyMan's demise.  Oh well...

Discord Link, with HQ Access (https://discord.gg/C7TQ942W)
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 25, 2022, 09:48:48 am
Well, good game.

:|
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: EuchreJack on August 25, 2022, 09:50:24 am
The setup:
The setup is 2 mafia, 6 townies. Mafia have a bus driver (codename Radio Operator) and 3-shot vest (Evil Sargent)
Town has a 3-shot doctor (Medic) and 3-shot vest (Good Sargent). Since everyone has 1-shot vest and 1-shot gun, balanced?

Change for 9 players (7 townies): Good Sargent loses 3-shot vest, gains 2-shot gun, below existed with 8 person version
Notquitethere is the Radio Operator. You are a Bus Driver.  You may NOT use your ability on the same turn as your night kill UNLESS you are the only surviving scum player.
NJW2000 is the Evil Sargent. You have a 3-shot bulletproof vest, as you are tougher than other characters.
You both otherwise have default Grunt equipment, unless it conflict with the above. I'll write it out better later
Mafia has two kill methods, which can NOT be used by a player using their default 1-shot gun (which you both have)
Only one kill method can be used per turn, no limitation on their use otherwise
Kill Method 1: Machinegun - Fires 3 shots, can be divided among up to 3 players.
Kill Method 2: Anti-Material Rifle - Fires 1 armorpiercing shot (NOT stopped by bulletproof vests)

The Medic uses their ability BEFORE the Vest. So they prevent kills before they would otherwise hit the Vest. Ok, it's probably not "proper" in any sense of the word, but its how I designed this from the beginning.

It is probably best to give Kill Results as "Your target died" "Your target's vest was hit with x-kills from your attack" and "Your target was not hit with any kills". Players should be notified solely if their vest was hit, and in the case of the Sargents how many protections they have left.  I honestly have to research Bus Driver a bit more to know what to report, although probably just "You successfully switch x with y", since its the only manipulative role in this game
Upon much soul searching, Anti-Material Rifle does NOT penetrate the Medic's protect, just the Vests.  Also, Medic can NOT self-target. I feel sort of bad in that the description that I gave the Medic didn't mention that, but the baseline Doctor description also fails to mention that even though it explicitly does not self-target.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia - Game Over Mafia Win!
Post by: Lidku on August 25, 2022, 10:06:33 am
What the hell? I went to sleep and wake up, and the game's already over?

; (
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia - Game Over Mafia Win!
Post by: webadict on August 25, 2022, 10:08:05 am
Ek-fucking-scuse me, the Mafia had a 3-Shot Bulletproof vest, what the flying fuck? Why even bother shooting? They have a Bus Driver and fucking invincibility.

There was never a reason to shoot.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia - Game Over Mafia Win!
Post by: Lidku on August 25, 2022, 10:11:42 am
The only way to reliably kill the Mafia would be through lynching. The guns in this game dynamic was just the heighten paranoia between Town-versus-Town.

Though I wonder if the 3-point vest factor would've allowed Town to figure out someone was Mafia. If two Townies confirmed they either shot NJW or NQT, and they didn't die, it'd be heavily suspicious.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia - Game Over Mafia Win!
Post by: ToonyMan on August 25, 2022, 10:16:32 am
I had the two shot gun, I was thinking about not shooting but I decided to shoot one bullet and yeah would have been better not to. I was surprised how quickly players submitted actions:

Could you please send your kill target(s) or No Action?
I think everyone else has submitted their actions.
Your Commander,
General E.K.Jack
Wow people are fast.

Uh...I was going to do no action but let's shoot some people.

Can I use both shots on different targets? So like one shot on Target A and one shot on Target B?
Yes, that would be acceptable.

Hmmm, I'll put one shot into Webadict then.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia - Game Over Mafia Win!
Post by: Lidku on August 25, 2022, 10:17:51 am
NJW and NQT were the perfect scumteam.
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia (Five out of Nine surviving) - Day 2 - New Orders
Post by: NJW2000 on August 25, 2022, 10:26:05 am
I was on the fence about Knight, and then I never got around to posting because who starts and ends a Day at 6:00 AM???
Imagine

Being Bri'ish
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia - Game Over Mafia Win!
Post by: webadict on August 25, 2022, 10:46:22 am
The only way to reliably kill the Mafia would be through lynching. The guns in this game dynamic was just the heighten paranoia between Town-versus-Town.

Though I wonder if the 3-point vest factor would've allowed Town to figure out someone was Mafia. If two Townies confirmed they either shot NJW or NQT, and they didn't die, it'd be heavily suspicious.
In no world do I give any Mafia 3-shot bulletproof in a game where half the Town dies on Night 1. Giving them 3 bullets is ALSO bad because Night 1 actually is more likely to end in a win, holy cow! Giving the Mafia a Doctor would make sense. Giving them a Bodyguard would make sense. Giving them a Bus Driver, while incredibly strong, can work (though, this should 100% be visible, or else it's kinda bastardy, since, ya know, shooting people seems to be the intention.) Giving them ways to defend against the shooting without being able to shoot is balanced, since choice is a huge factor. You can make plays around looking suspicious. You can make plays around not looking suspicious. There

A 2-shot Bulletproof vest is massively disadvantaged and still broken. A 3-shot Bulletproof vest is basically unplayable if you want the Town to shoot Mafia. It feels like this setup was created to tell Town: Shooting is for bad people!

I think ways to massively improve this situation is to, firstly, make sure that the Mafia don't have incredibly broken kill methods. Giving them the 3-way kill on one person is massively scum-sided. Hm...

You know, let's have a talk about something that I like to call "Action efficiency."

Scum roles, on average, are more powerful than Town roles. If you give a Town a role, the scum having that exact role is almost ALWAYS stronger. There are a few exceptions, such as a Cop, which only has upsides that apply to Town (or scum), but, for the most part, this is true. Why is this? The simple answer is that there's more Town to hit than there are scum. If a Townie hits a player, the chance of them being scum is at most 50:50, but more likely it is somewhere closer to 25:75. If a scum hits a player, the chance of them being Town is almost always known.

Scum can plan their Actions, so powers in their hands are always more efficient and can be used in conjunction with each other. This means that they must be made weaker in comparison to a Town's power.

In a game where all (okay, not ALL, but let's say all for simplicity) players have a kill, it is still much less likely that a Mafia is killed during the Night, because the Mafia will never accidentally kill a Mafia, but the Town will very often accidentally kill a Town. I think the math can probably be shown that 2-3 Townies dying on Night 1 is expected, but I'm too lazy to show that just yet. Maybe we should do some math for fun!

I was on the fence about Knight, and then I never got around to posting because who starts and ends a Day at 6:00 AM???
Imagine

Being Bri'ish
GET A REAL TIMEZONE! WE BROKE OFF FROM YOU GUYS FOR HAVING WEIRD TIME!
Title: Re: Armed Forces Mafia - Game Over Mafia Win!
Post by: notquitethere on August 25, 2022, 12:08:29 pm
As a Brit I appreciated the timezone....

That was a good game for us. I agree the team power was a bit OP but we still played well and avoided catastrophic decisions. Note: it is much easier to co-ordinate a quickhammer on Discord than it was on Quicktopics.