[i]Madist Towndriver[/i]: As long as you are alive, Dariush cannot be watched during the night. You will show up as 'third party' when inspected and on roleflip (with this ability blanked out)
As long as you are dead, zombie urist cannot be copied during the night. While you are alive, each other player's night action has a 25% chance of affecting a random player of the same alignment
You are a Multiple User Personality. Each night you can MUP half the players targeting notquitethere: this will either watch, poison, protect or do nothing. Action: MUP
I'm only recieving ((origin)) things in the output.Refresh the source page to make sure you're definitely getting the latest output. When you paste it into the editor, get rid of all text which is in the editor by default (forgot to mention that step).
Wolf Shield: Upon dying for the first two times, you will revive without flipping, and, if third-party, you will become a town-ally. You have two abilities: each night you can block another player, or each night you can curse another player's target. Actions: block, curse.
The 'and if third-party' is only there if the role was generated as a third-party (which it wasn't but through various mechanisms a third-party could end up having this role). It's modelled after 'Saulus' type roles in Xylbot.QuoteWolf Shield: Upon dying for the first two times, you will revive without flipping, and, if third-party, you will become a town-ally. You have two abilities: each night you can block another player, or each night you can curse another player's target. Actions: block, curse.
Odd.
"eavesdroped" should be "eavesdropped" and you're missing end punctuation in some cases (but you probably saw that since you've already quoted some).The punctuation thing I will probably fix. Bad spelling for some past tense words is an unfortunate side effect of the generation method (automatically making words past tense) and will be cleaned up when I send out the role.
One-shot Missionet: You have the following one-shot ability: you can copy all the players's target (one use). Action: copyThe grammar is a bug, but what I think this does is for all players being targeted by someone, it would copy their action. Powerful, but probably not game-ending.
Holy shit...what??
The roles that have "each other player's night action has a % chance of affecting a random player of a X alignment" sounds really annoying.Yeah probably a bit annoying. It's an emergent design space between a couple of normal roles that doesn't quite work. I think I need to tweak the chances, because the list of possible actions is huge whereas the list of passive stuff like this is much smaller, so even though roles are most likely to have an action, each given action is much rarer than some of the weirder passive powers.
Can I ask if there've been any additions/changes to the generator since this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8401915#msg8401915)?Thanks for the feedback. I've just updated the source with a slightly more balanced set of possibilities, but I think it still needs work. If I can get it spitting out something nice and variable I would be tempted to go 100% random (third parties included) or maybe, like gen up three possible random states and run the most viable of the three.
The diguised roleflip thing seems a bit too common. It's also not clear what kind of third party you flip as when it says something like "You will show up as 'third party' on roleflip (with this ability blanked out)".
There's also an ambiguity with roles that make other people flip in obscured or changed ways - it says "X will flip as third party with this ability blanked out", but is it visible on you?
The roles that do nothing but screw with censuses don't seem fun, but they make logical sense.
Would be ok with a totally random initial setup with unexpected third parties, especially if there were fewer "randomize all night action" roles. Trying to train myself not to care about having a weak or useless role.
In. I think we need at least 9 players for a fun setup, so I'll contribute to that.Good to have you aboard.
It's also not clear what kind of third party you flip as when it says something like "You will show up as 'third party' on roleflip (with this ability blanked out)".Actually, I think these are better clarified outside of the generator: you would show up with a newly generated third party role. And yes, if you died, then on your flip people would learn that X's flip was a fake. I'll add some clarifications in the OP.
There's also an ambiguity with roles that make other people flip in obscured or changed ways - it says "X will flip as third party with this ability blanked out", but is it visible on you?
Random Madcat: If you die, player will gain your role ((instead of)) their own.. Each night you can poison another player. Action: poisonOoh two bugs in one role. Fixed both in the current source now. Good spot.
You are an identical twin with player, but your twin doesn't know about you. Half actions targeting one of you will target the other instead. Each day you can voteblock half the players targeting a random player. Action: voteblockWill now say "Half the actions".
Behold the strangeness. Also find it fun Fallacy is in the generator.All the current players are now in the generator! This is so lover/buddy etc type roles can be generated.
You have the following one-shot ability: you can block a third of the players targeting a third of the players targeting half the players targeting a third of the players targeting all the players targeting a random player of the same alignment's target's target's target's target (one use). Action: block
Knightwing, how does it feel to be 1 of the weaker players. Or do you contest this?
And before anyone asks, I'm third party. So I'm going to be a bit disruptive till I win, after which I'll just help out my friend. Please befriend me?
Yes, this is a silly way to win a game of mafia, why do you ask?
Knightwing, how does it feel to be 1 of the weaker players. Or do you contest this?
And before anyone asks, I'm third party. So I'm going to be a bit disruptive till I win, after which I'll just help out my friend. Please befriend me?
Yes, this is a silly way to win a game of mafia, why do you ask?
NQT: Can I spoilspec..? It would make my life so much easier.If you die and it is mechanically impossible for you to be resurrected, revived, channelled, etc. then I will give you spoilspec!
Knightwing, how does it feel to be 1 of the weaker players. Or do you contest this?
And before anyone asks, I'm third party. So I'm going to be a bit disruptive till I win, after which I'll just help out my friend. Please befriend me?
Yes, this is a silly way to win a game of mafia, why do you ask?
Uh huh. What kind of third party are you?
There are 8 players in the game which makes having the tradish two scum and a third party of any stripe a bit of a stretch here.
@NJW I’ve played with everyone here at least once. I think I’m most comfortable reading FoU, though it has been literal years since I played a game with them so maybe that’s wishful thinking, and least comfortable with Max Spin. They just always seem to be pinging my scumdar.
How come you only asked three players questions?
NQT: Can I spoilspec..? It would make my life so much easier.
More in a bit, I need to wake up. Typical Brit starting the game so early.
Toonyman: NQT chose randomly generated roles to form something like a fair set-up. Do you think this makes second-guessing the mod more or less dangerous here than in a typical game?I will always try to meta-game the setup. If NQT chose the randomly generated roles then even more so.
I'm third party.I'm like 99% sure you're telling the truth as it's a very Tric thing to do, and one of my abilities is the psych one to convert a third-party to town. Annoyingly, my target has to be random, but eventually I can convert you to town.
You talking about my role or playing ability? Role, no, it’s pretty shit, if you mean my playing ability I would kill you if I had the abilityMy role is also pretty shit. Let's be friends.
@NJW I’ve played with everyone here at least once. I think I’m most comfortable reading FoU, though it has been literal years since I played a game with them so maybe that’s wishful thinking, and least comfortable with Max Spin. They just always seem to be pinging my scumdar.It has been a while, hector my scum buddy my pal, hasn't it?
Toony you’re not making my naked paranoia any better with claims like that.
The more I think about this the less I like it.Quite messy, ain't it? Still mad about Busdriver all the way back in Mafiakart Racing - how many years ago was that, now?
There are 8 players, with at least one scum and now a claimed third party. As I’ve said, it would seem excessive to have 2 scum and a third party, leaving 5 townies. This TP claims to be recruitable and it seems vanishingly unlikely that scum would not be able to recruit them, else what’s the point of them being recruitable?
It seems more likely to me that there’s one scum, and Tric is able to be recruited by them, possibly also by town to maybe kinda sorta balance it out?
Why would a player stay in the game if they’ve already won, too?
I hate third parties, god damn.
Knightwing, how does it feel to be 1 of the weaker players. Or do you contest this?Wait, so once you've won, you'll just stick around helping out whoever used their befriend ability on ya?
And before anyone asks, I'm third party. So I'm going to be a bit disruptive till I win, after which I'll just help out my friend. Please befriend me?
Yes, this is a silly way to win a game of mafia, why do you ask?
I only had three questions I genuinely wanted an answer to. Asked them ASAP because games these days tend to move out of RVS fast. Especially with Tric around.
How come you only asked three players questions?
Ruh-roh, I'm worried for town, let's talk third parties, there's probably only one scum.This post really doesn't fill me with confidence.
Anyone that has abilities that have global effects or roleflip alteration should claim immediately, though, unless they have good reason to believe they shouldn't. Miller rules.Why those two things specifically?
Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.Anyone that has abilities that have global effects or roleflip alteration should claim immediately, though, unless they have good reason to believe they shouldn't. Miller rules.Why those two things specifically?
Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.
I don't know, I think Knightwing and Hector are town here.So far, I agree. This encourages me that ToonyMan may also be town.
Well, that sucks.Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.
Equally so, Tric did fail to claim a Miller-esque role in a game recently until after the role was outed (the fairy godfather thing in the begBYOR) so the demand to inspect him is also disconcerting.
I love randomness!Well, that sucks.Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.
I don't think I believe TricMagic here, but I can't articulate why exactly. I believe he probably INSPECTS as a third party, though.Do you believe NQT would let me have a psych ability in a setup with no third-party?
Do you believe NQT would let me have a psych ability in a setup with no third-party?Corollary: Do you believe NQT would give out that third party wincon in a setup where no Befriend ability exists?
Well, I'm HOPING you never have to see it. :PWell, that sucks.Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.
Yes.I don't think I believe TricMagic here, but I can't articulate why exactly. I believe he probably INSPECTS as a third party, though.Do you believe NQT would let me have a psych ability in a setup with no third-party?
No, since the rules said all players can win.Do you believe NQT would let me have a psych ability in a setup with no third-party?Corollary: Do you believe NQT would give out that third party wincon in a setup where no Befriend ability exists?
Do you read Tric as scum then? I don't believe this is mafia!Tric at all. I can't understand half of what he's saying.Yes.I don't think I believe TricMagic here, but I can't articulate why exactly. I believe he probably INSPECTS as a third party, though.Do you believe NQT would let me have a psych ability in a setup with no third-party?
Do you read Tric as scum then? I don't believe this is mafia!Tric at all. I can't understand half of what he's saying.You know I don't like to make statements like that this early.
NJW for being wrong about players, again.Hey, rude, I was going to vote him. I guess I'll leave it for now.
@NJW we’re in a weird setup with only 8 players, an announcement at the start of the game that there was at least one scum (the implication being “not necessarily more than one scum”) then a claimed recruitable third party that seems to stay in the game even after they achieve their wincon of being recruited, plus someone claiming a random recruit for town, with another implication that scum might also have a recruit ability, random or otherwise.You're not. Nonetheless, that was the way you responded to it.
Am I just supposed to ignore the first significant piece of information in the game? :p it’s also RVS and close to day start, we have plenty of time to examine that and hopefully clear up before the end of the day, and FoU can confirm my experience with early TP claims that” they can benefit town” was not good.
Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.I don't know, I think Knightwing and Hector are town here.So far, I agree. This encourages me that ToonyMan may also be town.
I don't think I believe TricMagic here, but I can't articulate why exactly. I believe he probably INSPECTS as a third party, though.
@NJW we’re in a weird setup with only 8 players, an announcement at the start of the game that there was at least one scum (the implication being “not necessarily more than one scum”) then a claimed recruitable third party that seems to stay in the game even after they achieve their wincon of being recruited, plus someone claiming a random recruit for town, with another implication that scum might also have a recruit ability, random or otherwise.You're not. Nonetheless, that was the way you responded to it.
Am I just supposed to ignore the first significant piece of information in the game? :p it’s also RVS and close to day start, we have plenty of time to examine that and hopefully clear up before the end of the day, and FoU can confirm my experience with early TP claims that” they can benefit town” was not good.
Also, as a pedant I'd say the first bit of significant information signifies the end of RVS.
If Tric's to be believed about the third party thing, then yeah, 2 mafia + 3p could drop to lylo on a single miselim, or even end the game if the third party can reasonably side with the mafia, so that might be odd. I'd speculate that there may be Mafia + Mally, possibly with a third party.
Wanna hear my waaacky theory about who they'd be?Spoiler: conspiracy theorising (click to show/hide)
Started thinking about this because Mafiakart racing had a Mally (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170233.msg7769936#msg7769936)in it. I checked out the game because they were talking about it.
Doesn't add up to much, but hey, following my gut here.
Ninja: ok Tric has a global attract. I'm going to think about this.
It’s this kind of thing that makes Max hard to read for me. They know Tric puts a lot of stock in their role, to the point of that sometimes overriding their alignment (webadict’s game in which Tric was town and had their role modified by collecting hats, in which collecting these hats was all Tric was interested in) so I don’t know how they think Tric’s claim is so unbelievable.Of course I know that Tric is "MY ROLE MY ROLE MY SPECIAL ROLE". But he's shown this capacity to lie before, and I tend to find it suspicious when he comes out in the first couple of posts with something overly convenient. It seems like town Tric usually likes to string you along a little first, like he did with the fairy godfather ability. That said, I guess Tric isn't claiming to be town, here, so maybe I'm just not as familiar with "third-party Tric" and confusing it with "lying Tric".
And before anyone asks, I'm third party. So I'm going to be a bit disruptive till I win, after which I'll just help out my friend. Please befriend me?
Yes, this is a silly way to win a game of mafia, why do you ask?
Is it just roleflips that get randomizedYes.
@Hector: Well, you could have avoided leaping to conclusions about scum team numbers at all, especially as there are unknown role powers that will impact balance... this isn't mountainous. Your conclusion was that the scumteam were likely single-player, which is odd, and minimises the threat scum poses to town in relation to 3p, when there are other possibilities, such as Mafia ally, powerful town roles, Tric's just mafia, etc. A townier response would not have done that.
Granted, I can see why a town player might reach the conclusions you did. It's just that the things you ended up saying were more than a little dubious. Not sure what to make of your insistence otherwise.
Tric: Question for you here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404190#msg8404190). Want this very explicitly answered.
Third Parties: Custom roles that have a small chance of appearing in any setup. For example: "You are a third-party: you win and leave the game if [player name] is alive at the start of the third day.". "You are a third-party: you win if the town wins."
NQT, is it true Third Parties will always leave upon reaching their wincon?
Third-parties leave the game when they win.
Someone needs to re-read the OP methinks.Wait, sorry, that last quote was from the wrong game.
NQT, is it true Third Parties will always leave upon reaching their wincon?Yes. Currently the generator does not generate third party roles which stay in the game when they win, and I'm not aware of any Xylbot third party that would stay in the game after their win conditions have been met.
NQT, is it true Third Parties will always leave upon reaching their wincon?Yes. Currently the generator does not generate third party roles which stay in the game when they win, and I'm not aware of any Xylbot third party that would stay in the game after their win conditions have been met.
TricMagic.No. Maybe instead vote Jim for being evil and lazy?
Tric isn't lying. He is third-party and wins if befriended (though this becomes moot if I town-ify them).It’s this kind of thing that makes Max hard to read for me. They know Tric puts a lot of stock in their role, to the point of that sometimes overriding their alignment (webadict’s game in which Tric was town and had their role modified by collecting hats, in which collecting these hats was all Tric was interested in) so I don’t know how they think Tric’s claim is so unbelievable.Of course I know that Tric is "MY ROLE MY ROLE MY SPECIAL ROLE". But he's shown this capacity to lie before, and I tend to find it suspicious when he comes out in the first couple of posts with something overly convenient. It seems like town Tric usually likes to string you along a little first, like he did with the fairy godfather ability. That said, I guess Tric isn't claiming to be town, here, so maybe I'm just not as familiar with "third-party Tric" and confusing it with "lying Tric".
At the moment my magnet is the only way to get hit by Toony's conversion effect. Or get befriended if someone wants to do that. Not sure how resolution would work, but if you don't launch me I'll use my attract tonight. If Toony converts me to town, then my wincon becomes towns. If I get befriended, I end up leaving the game. Either way, not much else I can do given my gambit ran into hard facts I didn't know.It's up to you whether you think it's worth doing. I will be trying to convert someone tonight either way.
Ok, this has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but either I have full on pareidolia or there is something weird happening between FoU and Hector. I may just be spinning my wheels because the Tric thing wasn't that interesting.I'll be honest. I was going to joke about you being crazy paranoid and shit, but the way FoU made that post is incredibly odd. The only problem is that mafia-ally aren't told who the mafia are, right? So FoU replying to Hector here isn't a strong connection.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Toony, you remember Web trying to secretly communicate with you as a mafia-ally. Does this look anything like that?
My role is useless other then proving my innocence to other players, so, I’m kinda a non factor. I’m not of high importance, unless having a confirmed townie is awesomeConfirmed townie doesn't sound very shit to me Knightwing.
Sorry for not posting, My mafia finding strategy is mostly a combination of gut instinct and noticing when people are acting strange, or unusual.This confirms my suspicion. Knightwing is town.
My role is useless other then proving my innocence to other players, so, I’m kinda a non factor. I’m not of high importance, unless having a confirmed townie is awesome
Anyway, in this scenario, which of FoU or I is scum and which is the ally? Looks to me you favour FoU as ally, given he’s the one “dropping clues” that only Sherlock would see?I wouldn't be surprised if this setup of 8 players was 1 mafia, 1 mafia-ally, and our friendly neighbor Tric. That leave 5 town, I think that's possible.
Come at me, brah :p
I mean you seem hyper-focused on this mafia and mafia ally thing. Why are we to think you’re not telegraphing that you’re the ally to your scum team?
Knightwing is town.I think I agree.
TricMagic.No. Maybe instead vote Jim for being evil and lazy?Tric isn't lying. He is third-party and wins if befriended (though this becomes moot if I town-ify them).It’s this kind of thing that makes Max hard to read for me. They know Tric puts a lot of stock in their role, to the point of that sometimes overriding their alignment (webadict’s game in which Tric was town and had their role modified by collecting hats, in which collecting these hats was all Tric was interested in) so I don’t know how they think Tric’s claim is so unbelievable.Of course I know that Tric is "MY ROLE MY ROLE MY SPECIAL ROLE". But he's shown this capacity to lie before, and I tend to find it suspicious when he comes out in the first couple of posts with something overly convenient. It seems like town Tric usually likes to string you along a little first, like he did with the fairy godfather ability. That said, I guess Tric isn't claiming to be town, here, so maybe I'm just not as familiar with "third-party Tric" and confusing it with "lying Tric".
Arguing otherwise is dumb. If Tric chooses to use their magnet ability and soaks the mafiakill, then great, but if they decide not to do that I still have a random chance of converting them to town or possibly even some malicious other third-parties that would choose to stay quiet instead, like NJW keeps going MAFIA-ALLY MAFIA-ALLY MAFIA-ALLY. I could also get rid of those, randomly. It's great.At the moment my magnet is the only way to get hit by Toony's conversion effect. Or get befriended if someone wants to do that. Not sure how resolution would work, but if you don't launch me I'll use my attract tonight. If Toony converts me to town, then my wincon becomes towns. If I get befriended, I end up leaving the game. Either way, not much else I can do given my gambit ran into hard facts I didn't know.It's up to you whether you think it's worth doing. I will be trying to convert someone tonight either way.Ok, this has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but either I have full on pareidolia or there is something weird happening between FoU and Hector. I may just be spinning my wheels because the Tric thing wasn't that interesting.I'll be honest. I was going to joke about you being crazy paranoid and shit, but the way FoU made that post is incredibly odd. The only problem is that mafia-ally aren't told who the mafia are, right? So FoU replying to Hector here isn't a strong connection.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Toony, you remember Web trying to secretly communicate with you as a mafia-ally. Does this look anything like that?My role is useless other then proving my innocence to other players, so, I’m kinda a non factor. I’m not of high importance, unless having a confirmed townie is awesomeConfirmed townie doesn't sound very shit to me Knightwing.
Anyway, in this scenario, which of FoU or I is scum and which is the ally? Looks to me you favour FoU as ally, given he’s the one “dropping clues” that only Sherlock would see?I wouldn't be surprised if this setup of 8 players was 1 mafia, 1 mafia-ally, and our friendly neighbor Tric. That leave 5 town, I think that's possible.
Come at me, brah :p
I mean you seem hyper-focused on this mafia and mafia ally thing. Why are we to think you’re not telegraphing that you’re the ally to your scum team?
I think your reaction to dismiss the possibility of FoU behaving odd is weird, I believe they are posting odd there.
I also think you're being a bit overly defensive here, but that could still be town behavior.
What about the FoU thing is odd though? I might not be seeing anything due to being quite distracted this day, but it didn’t raise any red flags.FoU has two sentences back-to-back, both questions, that involve a number. First 10 and then 4.
True, Unvote, this is just Tric and I'm pretty sure he's being 100% honest. But the vote made it more dramatic and there was a small chance he was pulling something and would give info under pressure.TricMagic.No. Maybe instead vote Jim for being evil and lazy?
Even if there was anything like that happening, I suspect I interrupted way too early for it to be definite. Something's off about the opening few posts though, but whatever it is, I quite possibly haven't picked up on it properly. I still think your specific post I addressed separately was dubious, but your play has been constructive, so hmmm.
I mean you seem hyper-focused on this mafia and mafia ally thing. Why are we to think you’re not telegraphing that you’re the ally to your scum team?
Who is Jim?
What about the FoU thing is odd though? I might not be seeing anything due to being quite distracted this day, but it didn’t raise any red flags.FoU has two sentences back-to-back, both questions, that involve a number. First 10 and then 4.
The way FoU asks these questions is unnatural and warrants suspicion.
Ok, this has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but either I have full on pareidolia or there is something weird happening between FoU and Hector. I may just be spinning my wheels because the Tric thing wasn't that interesting....
The answer is four. And sure, there was a third party there that stayed in the game for some reason, I think... but still:
10-4. "OK."
Toony, you remember Web trying to secretly communicate with you as a mafia-ally. Does this look anything like that?
If I can’t blow shit up and brag about it, I’m dissatisfied.
Sorry for not posting, My mafia finding strategy is mostly a combination of gut instinct and noticing when people are acting strange, or unusual.Knightwing appears more focused than normal. I think I'm willing to chalk that up to actually gaining experience rather than having a mentor or such.
My role is useless other then proving my innocence to other players, so, I’m kinda a non factor. I’m not of high importance, unless having a confirmed townie is awesome
Huh... careful with that ability, Knightwing. We may want to hold Tric captive a little. For glorious reeducation, if necessary.What makes you think it's an ability? Unless I missed one of Knightwing's posts?
What I DO agree with on that post, though, is lynching Jim for being evil and lazy. He's one of several people I have mentally listed as "lynch if too quiet d1".
Re: Tric: I think he's being honest about being a third party, as claiming third party to obstruct being scum wouldn't be in character for Tric. The fact that another player has claimed the existence of a Befriend ability also backs up his claimed win condition. If he hasn't left the game by Day 2 we might have to revisit though, because I'm assuming he'll use global magnetism tonight.Wait, I misremembered. I falsely remembered the claimed third-party conversion as being a Befriend. My mistake. Still, that claimed conversion... doesn't technically back up Tric's alignment's existence at all. Useless abilities may exist.
...Why ask someone how paranoid they'll be ten minutes from now? Does that sound like a natural question?
You two think I'm crafty enough for that? I'm either insane or blunt, with no in-between.
But to give a more reasonable objecting point, if you think I'm doing some weird shit with hector, you have to look at both of our behavior patterns, not just mine.
Unless I'm stupid my role has very narrow utility. I'm a super befriendist and I can feed everyone who targets NJW2000, which has a 75%/25% chance of me befriending or infecting the target.Jim is town.
So if TricMagic is telling the truth, he can target NJW2000, and I will either befriend him, allowing him to win and therefore leave the game, or I infect him and he dies at the end of the next night, which also solves his slot.
This is my only action so I will be doing this every night I am able.
Jim is town.I'm going to have to agree with your provisional assessment.
Why ask someone how paranoid they'll be ten minutes from now? Does that sound like a natural question?To see their reaction? Why else would I do it?
To see their reaction? Why else would I do it?You could argue such odd phrases are signaling. It lines up too well, your playful prodding of Hector looks like signaling. I don't believe you buddying up with Hector makes Hector mafia, but I don't like your behavior there.
NJW2000 - town?
Hector13 - suspicious
FallacyofUrist - suspicious
I want to vote you or NJW today.Why NJW2000 over Hector, when you just put Hector as more suspicious than NJW?
You could argue such odd phrases are signaling. It lines up too well, your playful prodding of Hector looks like signaling. I don't believe you buddying up with Hector makes Hector mafia, but I don't like your behavior there.Does it make sense as signaling, coming from me, though?
Good morning everyone
Jim: how are you going to deal with Knightwing this game? Do you think last game will help you read them?
third party anxiety
Ruh-roh, I'm worried for town, let's talk third parties, there's probably only one scum.This post really doesn't fill me with confidence.
Ok, this has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but either I have full on pareidolia or there is something weird happening between FoU and Hector. I may just be spinning my wheels because the Tric thing wasn't that interesting.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Toony, you remember Web trying to secretly communicate with you as a mafia-ally. Does this look anything like that?
Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.
Either way, not much else I can do given my gambit ran into hard facts I didn't know.
Do we actually have any record of what scum-Wing looks like?
Consequently, I think that’s what the weirdness of his post was:” how paranoid are you going to be in 10 minutes… when you remember how horrible that game was that I claimed third party pretty much immediately and you railed against me for 50+ pages until I sided with the mafia?”I don't quite think Fallacy can read your mind either, though.
I mean… I don’t mean to cast aspersions on FoU, but similar to the whole “he’s dropping clues with a 10-4!” thing, I don’t think he’s smart enough to do that. Or maybe he doesn’t think I’m smart enough, that’s probably a better way to put it heh.But like I said,
It would require him to have remembered the post I linked specifically, and either that I remember it off the top of my head, or find it again 4 years later and link it with the idea that he’s a mafia ally instead of hating third parties because of it.
It’s a little too unbelievable.
don't you imply you DO think Fallacy intended to remind you of that? I don't think it necessarily takes that much brainpower to say "hey, remember that time when I was a third-party and teamed up with the mafia? Yeah, just keep that in mind" - I don't even have to believe he intended to signal you, since I currently have no idea why he would pick you out specifically, unless he knows something I don't; he could just as easily be counting on you passing on the message by making reference to exactly the event that you did.Consequently, I think that’s what the weirdness of his post was:” how paranoid are you going to be in 10 minutes… when you remember how horrible that game was that I claimed third party pretty much immediately and you railed against me for 50+ pages until I sided with the mafia?”I don't quite think Fallacy can read your mind either, though.
It would be a helluva distancing game if NJW and FoU were partnersI could see myself doing it, but I would've covered my retreat better than I think NJW did. It'd look suspicious if he backs down now; there was a window where he could have voted you over Fallacy, but now that a few other players have all countenanced voting Fallacy, it'd be impossible to ignore. Of course, I made my own comment proposing voting for Fallacy for precisely that reason.
In any case, I think my strategy for the time being will be to try and figure out which players were most opportunistic about using my behavior as a reason to vote. The players most eager to either bandwagon and avoid suspicion and/or take the easiest available case, that is to say.Nobody even voted you. :P
I thought he was the befriender, given he was claiming he could townconfirm himself, and there probably is a befriender because Tric is probably telling the truth.Huh... careful with that ability, Knightwing. We may want to hold Tric captive a little. For glorious reeducation, if necessary.What makes you think it's an ability? Unless I missed one of Knightwing's posts?
Hmm… FoU does pull off some weird shit sometimes, claiming TP being an example, then throwing in his lot with the mafia…A mally!FoU majorly fucked up if NJW is mafia. You're voting NJW because you think they're mafia right?
But nah, nah, nah, even in this case if he was trying to signal like that, expecting me to pull up that post or something similar, he’d still only be the ally, not the scum. It wouldn’t be ideal having the ally around, but if we find the scum it wouldn’t matter, he’d still lose even if he’s still alive I’m pretty sure.
I still don’t think he’s scum scum, aye? It’s a power heavy game, he can be dealt with if he is a mally, probably.
PPE: you are correct, money where your mouth is.
NJW
Max: what do you think of Toony this game - still leaning Town?So far, I guess. But of course, Toony is one that I can never be sure about, leastways not after the last part of Fallacy's Marathon.
Also, I remember Web once saying you had a theory about Toony's play - does that have any bearing on this game so far?Truthfully, I'm not sure which theory Web meant then. I have a couple notions about Toony's play, but nothing that directly bears on this situation unless he's specifically paired with Knightwing, which he probably is not. He hasn't gotten angry yet, and there's no webadict here for him to play-fight with, and those are all the theories I can remember ever mentioning right now.
I thought he was the befriender, given he was claiming he could townconfirm himself, and there probably is a befriender because Tric is probably telling the truth.Huh... careful with that ability, Knightwing. We may want to hold Tric captive a little. For glorious reeducation, if necessary.What makes you think it's an ability? Unless I missed one of Knightwing's posts?
The claim from Jim makes me reconsider that assumption.
Not sure how I feel about the Jim thing... I guess it makes me want to keep him alive, as it's an incentive for scum to not nightkill me. And it's kind of confirmable. I guess it wouldn't make much sense to claim as mafia, at least. Probably Town.
Max is correct, I haven't claimed anything yet. I don't think my role is going to give any deep insights into how this setup works, so probably not going to today.
I did get why Hector and FoU might have been naturally talking about mafiakart racing... there was just something weird about the exchange.
Briefly, reads:
Knightwing Town. Jim probably Town due to claim, absence of wolfish behaviour, fabulous entrance. Tric is third party and probably telling the truth.
I'm bad at reading Max. I guess I'll have a look at some of his scum games at some point today.
Can't tell with Toony... I find them quite difficult to read, and they're just very strong.
Max: what do you think of Toony this game - still leaning Town? Also, I remember Web once saying you had a theory about Toony's play - does that have any bearing on this game so far?
Hector has been focused on 3p and defending himself today - despite claim that daygame most important. Vote on me mostly unexplained, seems to be on the basis that I'm signalling mally. Nonetheless, didn't immediately go for killing the possibly town-recruitable third party Tric after the "lie" was exposed. Some gut sense that they actually believe in the reasonableness of their own points. Unsure.
At this stage, prefer FoU over Hector. Partly because, as Hector rightly points out, the weirdness I've seen was mostly on FoU's side, and partly because Hector has made some posts that do inspire confidence. On the other hand:
Dubious signalling theory aside, FoU doesn't look great. Stuff like this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404428#msg8404428) - claims we're still in RVS when we're patently not, and pre-emptively threatens/justifies going after players for their votes on FoU. Their next post talks about scumhunting without, again, actually doing any. Bad in itself, also doesn't line up with FoU's townplay from what I remember, though I haven't played with them much.
I wouldn't say they're activelurking, but I would say a lot of their posts do very little to potentially advance the game. Their first five posts this game, say, have a lot of questions and observations but basically nothing interesting.
Yeah, FallacyofUrist seems like a good choice.
I find it hilarious that players are even considering the idea that I'm enough of a planner to pull that absurd signaling strategy off.
In any case, I think my strategy for the time being will be to try and figure out which players were most opportunistic about using my behavior as a reason to vote. The players most eager to either bandwagon and avoid suspicion and/or take the easiest available case, that is to say.
Well they should. How else are people supposed to apply pressure / put their money where their mouth is? Aside from that, it's the RVS. What are you going to do aside from voting randomly?
Shows issues with not wanting to commit. There's another alley I can look into - who has the strongest position on me, while also not voting?
Still need to look into Max's scum game. Been busy today.I'm not sure it's ever been the same twice anyway.
Don't particularly like how lackadaisical NJW sounds about this...Still need to look into Max's scum game. Been busy today.I'm not sure it's ever been the same twice anyway.
A further issue I have with NJW’s case against FoU is his assertion FoU isn’t scumhunting, which also applies to Jim, it also applies to Knightwing, arguably also to Max, and it probably also applies to me, at least prior to this post.Hey, I'm scumhunting, I just keep it close to my vest at this early point. There was more in that long post I felt like responding to, but then I decided I want to keep my opinions to myself for the moment.
Not sure how I feel about the Jim thing... I guess it makes me want to keep him alive, as it's an incentive for scum to not nightkill me. And it's kind of confirmable. I guess it wouldn't make much sense to claim as mafia, at least. Probably Town.
I'm not sure we were ever in RVS this game Fal. The conditions, the reason, you're puffing things up but one could just relegate it to rvs shenanigans. I don't think town has a reason to do so though, so what are the cases you see being made from this?
FallacyofUrist
FallacyofUrist
Fal
FallacyofUrist
Because he's Tric. And because he's used to playing Town / wants to get in our good graces. I don't think that's out of character.I'm not sure we were ever in RVS this game Fal. The conditions, the reason, you're puffing things up but one could just relegate it to rvs shenanigans. I don't think town has a reason to do so though, so what are the cases you see being made from this?
Why are you voting for anybody for being scum when you're a claimed third party?
All right, just finished a thing for a different thread and caught up in here properly. Little out of it, bear with me.A further issue I have with NJW’s case against FoU is his assertion FoU isn’t scumhunting, which also applies to Jim, it also applies to Knightwing, arguably also to Max, and it probably also applies to me, at least prior to this post.Hey, I'm scumhunting, I just keep it close to my vest at this early point. There was more in that long post I felt like responding to, but then I decided I want to keep my opinions to myself for the moment.
Fallacy at L-2. Any other game I'd probably throw one on just to see what happens. Jim's and Toony's gut feelings are aligned with my own. But that's exactly how it happened in Armed Forces. I also think about the last time I was scum, when I had my partner hammer on d1 just for the wifom of "scum surely wouldn't obviously hammer on d1!". But... at the end of the day, my nature is to be bold. Ugggggh, FallacyofUrist. I blame you if we're wrong.
First of all, I don't think Maximum Spin makes this vote as town. 'keep my opinions to myself' and 'my nature is to be bold' seem mutually exclusive, frankly speaking. This just doesn't fit Spin's normal behavior. Spin typically hangs back Day 1 - and here he is making a near lethal play based on gut feeling. That isn't a pressure vote, that's scum saying 'jump this guy already, you know you want to'.I don't make pressure votes. I think you're misunderstanding my entire playstyle here. I usually make bold votes on d1, I just don't explain them, and I generally wait until people have settled out of random voting, unless I see something I don't like early. I think the chance of hitting scum d1 is usually pretty low, but, for that very reason, I'm also comfortable using my vote tactically. In this case, while I won't be disappointed if you get lynched, seeing what Jim and hector (and to a lesser extent Knightwing, but I'm pretty sure he's town) do and say now that you're at l-1 is the real interesting part.
Because he's Tric. And because he's used to playing Town / wants to get in our good graces. I don't think that's out of character.I'm not sure we were ever in RVS this game Fal. The conditions, the reason, you're puffing things up but one could just relegate it to rvs shenanigans. I don't think town has a reason to do so though, so what are the cases you see being made from this?
Why are you voting for anybody for being scum when you're a claimed third party?
In this case, while I won't be disappointed if you get lynched, seeing what Jim and hector (and to a lesser extent Knightwing, but I'm pretty sure he's town) do and say now that you're at l-1 is the real interesting part.Well, I won't argue with you there. Except for the disappointment part.
Dubious posts here and here. [links not present as I had to c+p from the thread] In these, FoU claims we were in RVS still, threatens to vote players retaliatively for poor justification (cognitive dissonance here?), or for presenting evidence on them without voting (ditto?). It basically looks like attempts to drive off pressure.
It’s this kind of thing that makes me think you’re scum. FoU is actually inviting pressure by asking players to vote for him if they have a strong case, otherwise it is hugely suspicious, because building a strong case and only inviting others to take it up is really bad, as is the other side of that coin, voting someone for poor reasoning. Sure, voting people for voting you is no bueno, but examining cases against you for strengths and weaknesses is fine, and half the town is currently on his wagon.Ho hum. Do you think it would be likely for some players to have strong cases, while others are still in RVS?
RVS also isn’t an absolute thing; some players can still be in RVS when others are chasing down things they find interesting, and FoU - we at least agree on this - hasn’t done a great deal as yet. That’s about the only good thing I can see from him being at L-1, because he has to actually do something now.
Unvote in case of knightwings.You should probably put this in red, if you want it to happen.
Fallacy, I could’ve sworn you were invited people to vote you just two pages ago, why the switch up?I appreciate well-reasoned votes. I don't appreciate bandwagoning. There's a difference between good votes and bad votes.
NJW for being wrong about players, again.
NJW2000 - town?
Hector13 - suspicious
FallacyofUrist - suspicious
I can't believe I agree with a D1 NJW case.
FallacyofUrist. I think FoU is up to no good and do like NJW more currently.
I'm willing to vote NJW today. Unvote to avoid hammers and so I can catch up with thread.
Fal, what's with the flippin colors?
Tric: Question for you here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404190#msg8404190). Want this very explicitly answered.
Huh. No point putting this off, I guess.
TricMagic.
There's something very dubious going on here. Players do not stick around once their wincon is reached. They leave the game. You can check this in the OP, and with the mod.
You're lying to us.
Why?
The case I'm voting FoU on is:
Basically uninteresting first few posts, featuring stuff like a meaningless and abandoned prod at Knightwing, stupid questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404203#msg8404203), actual nothing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404199#msg8404199), a bunch of mostly uncontested townreads, etc. Nearly activelurking in quite a spicy early D1.
Dubious posts here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404424#msg8404424) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404428#msg8404428). In these, FoU claims we were in RVS still, threatens to vote players retaliatively for poor justification (cognitive dissonance here?), or for presenting evidence on them without voting (ditto?). It basically looks like attempts to drive off pressure.
The Max vote is... meta-based. Also not based on something I actually think is true of Max, but people's impressions differ, so NAI.
Also for me, a bit of POE, I guess... Mostly sure of Jim and Knightwing, and don't want to elim Hector just yet because some stuff he said has town energy. Possibly Max and Toony are scum wagoning on some weird garden path I've wandered down, but that would probably look as bad for them as for me, if not worse?
And maybe, just maybe, FoU's first post was a bit odd.
Ninja: Fallacy now going to do some scumhunting, apparently. I'm all ears.
Don't see my unvote as an act of mercy. I still extremely want to vote you today Fallacy for being scummy. I'm mainly unvoting so I can read the thread and get a word in without quicky mcgee dropping hammer.What is actually scummy about me? My sense of humor? The set of posts I already justified by noting that it was 1 AM at the time and I was doing preliminary musing? You have no case. I don't even mean a weak case, you literally have no case.
I'll gladly hammer you with confidence.
FoU, full role-claim if you haven't yet.No. It's not even relevant right now. I should have my night action confirmed Day 2.
But most importantly, look at the comparative attitudes shown. The aggression shown in the first vote versus the conspiracy-theorizing in the second.Well, conspiracy theorizing is part of it, but the stronger issue is the comparative lack of energy and the unsureness projected. I don't understand how someone capable of putting forth the first attack is stuck doing this as the second one, unless they're scum trying to force an execution.
Basically uninteresting first few posts, featuring stuff like a meaningless and abandoned prod at Knightwing, stupid questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404203#msg8404203), actual nothing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404199#msg8404199), a bunch of mostly uncontested townreads, etc. Nearly activelurking in quite a spicy early D1.
Dubious posts here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404424#msg8404424) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8404428#msg8404428). In these, FoU claims we were in RVS still, threatens to vote players retaliatively for poor justification (cognitive dissonance here?), or for presenting evidence on them without voting (ditto?). It basically looks like attempts to drive off pressure.
Also for me, a bit of POE, I guess... Mostly sure of Jim and Knightwing, and don't want to elim Hector just yet because some stuff he said has town energy. Possibly Max and Toony are scum wagoning on some weird garden path I've wandered down, but that would probably look as bad for them as for me, if not worse?
First of all, I don't think Maximum Spin makes this vote as town. 'keep my opinions to myself' and 'my nature is to be bold' seem mutually exclusive, frankly speaking. This just doesn't fit Spin's normal behavior. Spin typically hangs back Day 1 - and here he is making a near lethal play based on gut feeling. That isn't a pressure vote, that's scum saying 'jump this guy already, you know you want to'.
Aside from that point, now that I'm back home, from work as mentioned earlier, I can act on the methodologies I described last night. That is to say, who's voting me for the laziest and least justified reasons.
As much as my initial vote was on him, I don't believe Maximum Spin is scum - unvote.
... This is the most unreasoned and most indecisive flip flopping I have seen in a while.I believe I've already documented the flip-flopping, but frankly, that's not even the main reason for my vote. Just a supporting factor.
I can't believe I agree with a D1 NJW case.
FallacyofUrist. I think FoU is up to no good and do like NJW more currently.
What about the FoU thing is odd though? I might not be seeing anything due to being quite distracted this day, but it didn’t raise any red flags.FoU has two sentences back-to-back, both questions, that involve a number. First 10 and then 4.
The way FoU asks these questions is unnatural and warrants suspicion.
To see their reaction? Why else would I do it?You could argue such odd phrases are signaling. It lines up too well, your playful prodding of Hector looks like signaling. I don't believe you buddying up with Hector makes Hector mafia, but I don't like your behavior there.
I want to vote you or NJW today.
You won't have a night action to confirm when you're dead.Nah.
Full
claim
FoU
Fal, mechanically solving your 'innocence' is just stalling. If I'm to be converted to town, you'd be relying on me and toony in the first place to clear your innocence. And if toony is town, where does your suspicion fall?I have no idea what you are talking about. Please explain further, or preferably help me get ToonyMan executed. He is not town.
Some musing in the meantime:I totally agree. You two have the same energy. Shifty weakness and trying to create cases that don't really exist. Scum.
One of the reasons I like NJW over FoU is because I agree with NJW's assertions that Knightwing and Jim feel town while Hector has a "town energy" to him. I can feel exactly what he means when he says that, like resonance you know? That doesn't mean we're right, but if we're having a similar mindset then maybe we're the same alignment too.
But somehow, ToonyMan's behavior is even weaker, even scummier.
Then die. I will be voting you after I'm done posting tonight.You won't have a night action to confirm when you're dead.Nah.
Full
claim
FoU
You haven't been paying attention fal? Toony apparently has a random way to convert TP to town, apparently. I have a global attract. You do the math.If I was scum and choosing between using an ability like that and the mafiakill, I would just use the mafiakill, then claim I was roleblocked the next Day. Or I would just lie about having an ability like that. It's not enough to justify not executing him.
Then die. I will be voting you after I'm done posting tonight.Until the very last minute, votes can change. I fully believe my fullclaim will not make any difference in who votes me and who doesn't vote me. I will not claim. It benefits scum more than it does town, in this circumstance, which will be demonstrably visible once I claim it Day 2.
I want to be an amicable person. I don't want to miss anything. If you have no desire to cooperate on death's door then you have something to hide and are scum. Please understand this concept.
I believe ToonyMan is marginally scummier than NJW, and I'll act according to that belief. NJW has a really terrible case, and ToonyMan has no case. There's a slight improvement between 'really terrible' and 'none'.But somehow, ToonyMan's behavior is even weaker, even scummier.
Why not NJW2000 if he's also part of the scum team? hector13 is voting NJW2000 so if you pivoted to NJW2000 your odds of getting a non-you lynch significantly improve.
You haven't been paying attention fal? Toony apparently has a random way to convert TP to town, apparently. I have a global attract. You do the math.If I was scum and choosing between using an ability like that and the mafiakill, I would just use the mafiakill, then claim I was roleblocked the next Day. Or I would just lie about having an ability like that. It's not enough to justify not executing him.
Global AttractAs long as there is any possibility the ability might fail, the scum can just claim they used it and it failed and kill instead. And there are some weird as heck abilities the generator can generate. The scum can just lie. Remember last game - Beginner BYOR 3 - where Roden and Spin just lied, Spin saying he got the message sent to Roden, and made the town go crazy about a hypothetical bus driver / mass redirector that never actually existed? Scum can do that.
I believe ToonyMan is marginally scummier than NJW, and I'll act according to that belief. NJW has a really terrible case, and ToonyMan has no case. There's a slight improvement between 'really terrible' and 'none'.But somehow, ToonyMan's behavior is even weaker, even scummier.
Why not NJW2000 if he's also part of the scum team? hector13 is voting NJW2000 so if you pivoted to NJW2000 your odds of getting a non-you lynch significantly improve.
... Max, if Fal somehow survives to end of day and Toony dies and flips town, I'm hitting Fal tonight. Please send a friend request.
... Max, if Fal somehow survives to end of day and Toony dies and flips town, I'm hitting Fal tonight. Please send a friend request.Jim targets whoever targets NJW. There's a 75% chance Jim befriends whoever targets NJW and a 25% chance they get infected and die the following day or something. I wouldn't worry about being possibly infected as if I'm able to convert you then you'll still win with town.
wordsThis post makes Hector very town to me if FoU is town. It's like Lidku defending Knightwing in Armed Forces.
Oh, I'm not certain about the mally thing, I made that pretty clear. I'm going after FoU because they look like scum.At this point I'm starting to believe FoU is trying to get themselves lynched so that mafia isn't.
Ugggggh, FallacyofUrist. I blame you if we're wrong.I would normally say it's pretty scummy to go "uuugh okay I'll vote this person", but I think you've done this before as town.
There is merit in the arguments against him (E.G., FoU has townread maybe two players and hasn't scumread anybody yet) but hector13 planted a seed of doubt in my mind and it's making me doubt that lynching FallacyofUrist catches scum here.It's harder for me to convince you when FoU is figuratively writing "KILL ME" on their forehead so far.
Somebody convince me.
Jim Groovester
Maximum SpinWhat the fuck is this FoU? Why are you coloring people's names weird? This is 100% intentional and you're being a troll.
Bite me. I fully support NJW's case and agree with it more than anything you've said.You won't have a night action to confirm when you're dead.Nah.
Full
claim
FoU
You're assuming I'll be dead, which I won't be. I have full confidence in my ability to get you executed. You have nothing.
I will full claim Day 2.
Toony is acting like he has a case, when in truth either he doesn't, or he's copying NJW's case without saying he's copying NJW's case and trying to look like he considers him a possible scum target without ever justifying that.
It is so shifty.
Good luck then.Then die. I will be voting you after I'm done posting tonight.Until the very last minute, votes can change. I fully believe my fullclaim will not make any difference in who votes me and who doesn't vote me. I will not claim. It benefits scum more than it does town, in this circumstance, which will be demonstrably visible once I claim it Day 2.
I want to be an amicable person. I don't want to miss anything. If you have no desire to cooperate on death's door then you have something to hide and are scum. Please understand this concept.
I'm doubtful now that the conversion actually exists.Hey, at least I claimed having one.
So, uh, I accidentally gave everyone prizes. Really interested to know how that turns out.Oh, wait, I read it wrong. I probably only gave one person a prize. Please come forward immediately.
I didn't receive anything last night. Tric almost certainly used their global attract so it's likely they got your gift Max?I don't think so. It happened automatically at the very beginning of the day, because of my action last night. I didn't find out about it until the end of the night, and it was not expected.
Oh okay, I understand. Yes whoever got this prize then please claim.I didn't receive anything last night. Tric almost certainly used their global attract so it's likely they got your gift Max?I don't think so. It happened automatically at the very beginning of the day, because of my action last night. I didn't find out about it until the end of the night, and it was not expected.
I got a prize.Can you please tell me the fifth word in the prize?
It's a pretty neat prize.
'first'Ohhh, lucky dip then. And the horrible thing didn't happen to you.
Uhhh hopefully I'm counting from the right spot and what NQT sent you matches what he sent me.
As far as I know I'm still town.I didn't mean that it would change. As far as I know that can't happen. It's just that if you have been mafia all along, obviously you getting that ability would be very bad for town. I'd like to think you wouldn't openly tell me you got it as mafia, though...
( posting then reading peoples posts, of course Tric, the one I tried to befriend would die 0.0)
Ah, Jim. That’s no good you know? Staying mostly silent and then hammering somebody who turns out to be town?
That’s not a good look.
How that I think about it, Fallacy did say to be wary of people who were against him but didn’t vote him, which fits you perfectly til l the last second.
Add that to being uncharacteristically silent, and I believe you to be mafia or a third party, both of which we can’t have around.
There are potential bastard flips in this game. At least one actual one, if Max is to be believed.
FoU wanted to die.
Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing?
Bare-bones night stuff:
Tric's alignment changed. Tric was befriended either by Jim or Knightwing.
Knightwing claims to have befriended Tric. Jim promised to do the weird thing that would 75% of the time result in him befriending Tric, provided Tric targeted me, which he probably did... I think I was disabled.
Weirdness here. Why the kill on Tric? Did Tric use the attract instead? Overdetermination?
Jim confirms Max's night action. Both claim Jim now has a powerful ability.
Knightwing. Why did you befriend the player that would leave the game once they were befriended? You could have actually confirmed your alignment with someone. Why didn't you?
Oh.It's possible but I'm not convinced.
Sry.
Also, wdym is that All I got, I thought that was a smart and reasonable accusation to make of Jim?
I show more skill and now people want reasonable decisions 0.0[MALDING INTENSIFIES]
Toony: Right... sorry, not too sharp in the mornings, was confusing befriends and conversions. So you converted Tric, he presumably used the attract?I don't believe FoU's flip is fake. I don't agree with their behavior (or coloring players weird), but their stubbornness looks like annoyed town on a reread and their reads list feels genuine. I'm disappointed but also confident they were town.
Huh... and he didn't leave the game. If befriends happening before kills and conversions, Knightwing looks VERY bad here. I'll look into that.
I'm not going to theorise about bastard flips that much here, it's an edge case, but not one with much explanatory power just yet.
Knightwing: why not someone with more sway over town? Tric doesn't usually persuade people, you must have seen that by now.
Could be an entirely fake flip… if not, as scum, he’d still have a mafiakill and a chance to evolve or protect his partner, though I don’t know what from.Says the guy who was mechanically trying to catch Knightwing.
The past half dozen games here have been telling players to trust their daygame, assume bastard and counterintuitive modding rather than reliable inspects/flips and second guessable mods. This is a procgen mafia, so I wouldn’t expect everything to make intuitive sense. But people are still people, and FoU doesn’t seem like town trying to get results.
You really think FoU wanted to live? There was zero chance of eliminating you, four or five people ready to flip me, and he thought I was insanely and obviously scummy.
His play sometimes looks stubborn and weak, but is he really THAT pigheaded?
PPE: and Max is being enigmatic. As usual.I honestly want to explain fully, but it now involves information about Jim. If it was just claiming my own stuff I'd prefer to explain what happened so everyone's informed, but since Jim was so cagey about what he gained when he claimed it, I don't really want to mess it up for him.
Jim is a suspect though, at least as it pertains to his currently unknown night action.I agree, that's why I want to hear back from him. If he doesn't cooperate, I'll just spill his secrets. :P
Fair enough.Jim is a suspect though, at least as it pertains to his currently unknown night action.I agree, that's why I want to hear back from him. If he doesn't cooperate, I'll just spill his secrets. :P
Kindly don't put words in my mouth. I don't know if I've been disabled, I'm trying to figure it out. I won't have been if Tric used the attract, which he seems to have.
NJW appears to be claiming to have been disabled.
This would lead me to believe if the scum team is only one member, KW is a contender, but not first choice for it. However, in the Xylbot list the friendly neighbour is always town so… something probably not worth worrying about?You understand the roles this game come from a procedural generator that assembles abilities at random, not the Xylbot? Because if not, I'm going to get a little frustrated.
FoU did bring up that people should claim any bizarro abilities like that, after all.I'm suggesting that FoU may not have actually been town.
If the D1 elimination flip was a wash, and N1 wasn’t informative due to Tric’s global attract, what do we do?well, how to put it...
For srs though, the day game is more important than the night game. The longer we can avoid the game devolving into “I did this and you did that and someone else blocked them” a la the most recent begBYOR the better, but that’s just me.Oh yes, we'd actually ****ing scumhunt.
Further, you are insanely and obviously scum :pTHEN PRESENT A CASE ON ME.
Max: how sure are you FoU's alignment flipped correctly?Almost completely. If it didn't, some member of town is withholding that information for no reason.
Anyway, you seem to be suggesting that FoU was building cases against Toony in an effort to remove them from the game, but making those cases deliberately weak so he gets lynched and I get town-cred from a fake flip? Those seem mutually exclusive, but I’ll give you the opportunity to clarify.The idea was that more attention would be paid to his claims after his death.
( posting then reading peoples posts, of course Tric, the one I tried to befriend would die 0.0)
Ah, Jim. That’s no good you know? Staying mostly silent and then hammering somebody who turns out to be town?
That’s not a good look.
How that I think about it, Fallacy did say to be wary of people who were against him but didn’t vote him, which fits you perfectly til l the last second.
Add that to being uncharacteristically silent, and I believe you to be mafia or a third party, both of which we can’t have around.
Also, wdym is that All I got, I thought that was a smart and reasonable accusation to make of Jim?
I show more skill and now people want reasonable decisions 0.0
Let me add this.
Jim, according to the source generator, what you saw is the only way the last several words of that can happen. Infer everything accordingly.
PPE: and Max is being enigmatic. As usual.I honestly want to explain fully, but it now involves information about Jim. If it was just claiming my own stuff I'd prefer to explain what happened so everyone's informed, but since Jim was so cagey about what he gained when he claimed it, I don't really want to mess it up for him.
You really think FoU wanted to live? There was zero chance of eliminating you, four or five people ready to flip me, and he thought I was insanely and obviously scummy.
His play sometimes looks stubborn and weak, but is he really THAT pigheaded?
I am slightly reassured about KW for obvious reasons.
Right now, I think FoU and Hector's behaviour yesterday looks astonishingly like a scum gambit to clear Hector via FoU's fake flip. Hard-defending a townie gets one town-read, but the flip needs to occur for Hector to actually be trusted. This is why FoU shows no genuine desire to live, despite claiming I am insanely scummy. Naturally, he goes after a much harder player to eliminate D1, and a stronger player than myself, i.e. Toonyman. Also good for getting Toony out of the way rather than myself on D2. Which explains Hector's certainty that I'm scum, but strange reticence in presenting a case on me and voting for me.
hector13 continuing to make a lot of sense
Oh, you're right, I missed the "true roleflip but fake alignment" entry. I was only looking at the "completely fake roleflip" possibilities.Let me add this.
Jim, according to the source generator, what you saw is the only way the last several words of that can happen. Infer everything accordingly.
You made me go look at the role generator. If I'm reading it right I don't think you are correct. Pure death millers are possible.
While the work environment had become a little strained after the recent loss of several prominent colleagues, no one was feeling so acrimonious to seriously point any fingers.
I think people can use context clues to have figured out you weren’t giving me an extra vote :p consequently, I’m denying the rest of the town nothing. Equally so, before your claim, I had no idea what you were going to claim having done, and consequently can’t vouch for it.I should have voteblocked you for the day. You should have been informed by NQT.
So yeah, I did not receive any messages about being vote blocked, or losing a vote.
It might seem artificially constructed because it kinda was? I guess, a little bit?
You hammering Fallacy when he was talking talking and giving information annoyed me, especially once he was revealed as town. But I couldn’t call you out on it as the day had ended
So like any reasonable person I vented my frustrations by making a paragraph about why I thought you were scum on note and copy and pasting said paragraph when the day started.
Would you be affected by Tric’s global attract?...shit, yep. And that almost definitely happened.
Right now, I think FoU and Hector's behaviour yesterday looks astonishingly like a scum gambit to clear Hector via FoU's fake flip. Hard-defending a townie gets one town-read, but the flip needs to occur for Hector to actually be trusted. This is why FoU shows no genuine desire to live, despite claiming I am insanely scummy. Naturally, he goes after a much harder player to eliminate D1, and a stronger player than myself, i.e. Toonyman. Also good for getting Toony out of the way rather than myself on D2. Which explains Hector's certainty that I'm scum, but strange reticence in presenting a case on me and voting for me.(https://i.imgur.com/zVstxbi.jpg)
Because you were the last vote that got him hammered? What are you talking about?
Finally: I'm not sure whether I'm comfortable with a no lynch. In theory it might be the right move today... but I can only ever remember it being used by scum to get out of getting lynched. I don't trust it, even though I relatively do trust Jim. If we really can't convince ourselves that someone is scum, I guess I'll agree to it, but for now I don't like it.
The question is how risky is it to no lynch? Even though everybody has a role they all seem to be monkey's paw roles of dubious utility and value. If it were a BYOR, absolutely no way would I go for a no lynch, but it feeeeeeels like less of a risk this game.Well, I might as well be open about this: my role leads me strongly to prefer getting on with things. It didn't break the game today, but it might tomorrow. Like, for example, what if NJW2000 got what you got? Well, that could still happen and there's nothing anyone can do about it yet. For all I know, it could easily get worse than that.
*sigh*Yes, detective.
From your interactions I s’pose we can make some assumptions:
Assumption 1: Max gifted a powerful role to Jim.
Assumption 2: This role is not good for us if in hostile hands.
Assumption 3: Max will gift again, possibly outwith his control?
Does that about sum it up?
Jim: is whatever Max have you necessarily town sided if given to town?It certainly is, but since I can't control it and gained the ability to give the gifts randomly anyway, I admit it doesn't say much about my alignment.
Because role flips are the single greatest information source we have, closely followed by player behavior in thread.Well, all right. My flip will be completely fake. That is to say, completely random.
The question is how risky is it to no lynch? Even though everybody has a role they all seem to be monkey's paw roles of dubious utility and value. If it were a BYOR, absolutely no way would I go for a no lynch, but it feeeeeeels like less of a risk this game.Well, I might as well be open about this: my role leads me strongly to prefer getting on with things. It didn't break the game today, but it might tomorrow. Like, for example, what if NJW2000 got what you got? Well, that could still happen and there's nothing anyone can do about it yet. For all I know, it could easily get worse than that.
And don't worry: even if it wasn't possibly MYLO, lynching me wouldn't even help.I can't help but think you're intentionally trying to pick the least town-beneficial target possible. Especially after you've already argued that the last player you had lynched might have been secret mafia who flipped falsely.
Do you think Jim is more likely to have killed Tric than Hector then?
It is good for the team it is given to but much more useful for the scum team than town.Thanks.
Yeah it kinda feels you’re just looking for ways out and hoping to get traction.I'd rather not die, yeah, it wouldn't help town if I did. But I'm just giving my thoughts on the game, in case it helps people, there doesn't seem to be any appetite for a different elim. If anything, stating my thought processes might show that I'm town so we can no-lynch, but even that looks pretty unlikely. I don't think town are going to find scum today.
You tried to tenuously link FoU and I with the “10-4” argument on D1, and then said that despite that I had a “town energy”. You then seemed to double down on the tenuous link between myself and FoU by suggesting that because Max had admitted to having a fake flip that FoU would have one too, and when people said that argument was bad kinda moved back to seeing me as town, but simultaneously seem to think I’m the best elimination if I’m reading that correctly (that you’re not going to be able to get me eliminated) which is a bit confusing.
I'm flip-flopping because I genuinely don't know who's town or who's scum. Jim, Toony and Max have not come under any pressure, so I'm practically unable to get any kind of read on them. I'm trying to find something, but it's very difficult, because people are barely playing. You vibe as town, but the interpretation that makes most intellectual sense has you as scum, and I don't know what to trust.
This is exactly like the thing with FoU yesterday. I'm like 55% sure he was actually town at the moment, in which case people are doing exactly the same stuff as D1: not presenting cases, or pressuring anyone but the likeliest elimination. If he was town, I f'd up, but at least I did something.
@NJW:Because FoU wanting to die is main reason I think Hector mafia.
I don't understand why you didn't argue that a mafia!Hector would defend FoU to simply look good instead of adding that FoU was partners with Hector and would flip town. Why go for the more outrageous argument over the more reasonable one?
Do you actually think you might be eliminated today?No.
there doesn't seem to be any appetite for a different elim.There does seem to be a serious problem for you, which is that most of us have different second choices. I think your strongest alternative target might be Knightwing, who hasn't engaged much and whom many of us - Toony, Jim, and I, at least, I think - are no longer sure we can read as well as we thought. But if you townread Knightwing, that obviously isn't what you want to try.
Also this seems pretty hypocritical coming from me, but I could try to point out why I feel FoU really is just town based on their later D1 posts.I really think so too. Honestly, I hate to say this after the lynch already happened and essentially foist the blame on other people, but... I probably would've unvoted if I'd been awake to do it. I get why you and Jim felt the way you did at the time, but I would have been really on the fence.
Okay, let's try something different.@NJW:Because FoU wanting to die is main reason I think Hector mafia.
I don't understand why you didn't argue that a mafia!Hector would defend FoU to simply look good instead of adding that FoU was partners with Hector and would flip town. Why go for the more outrageous argument over the more reasonable one?
Otherwise, he looks ok.
Off to dinner now... back in a bit.
-I mean, godfather-scum!fallacy could have done this to make me dig an even deeper hole of conspiracy nonsense, but honestly, I think grey means null and Fallacy shows uncertain reads by colouring sections of the name differently, for some reason best known to themselves.
I didn't receive anything last night. Tric almost certainly used their global attract so it's likely they got your gift Max?I don't think so. It happened automatically at the very beginning of the day, because of my action last night. I didn't find out about it until the end of the night, and it was not expected.
Max: I'm not going to ask you to tell us everything, but there's something about your gift-giving I'd like explained.Sure.
You wrote this early D2,[...]
Then gave the following:[...] Suggesting the gifting ability is an auto you can't even turn off, not even by dying.
These don't really check out... could you explain?
Toony: Did you ever follow up on this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8405024#msg8405024)? Didn't need an answer to feel good about Knightwing?Knightwing ignores me all the fucking time, even as town.
Town!FoU was ordering his reads list with the colours. Green was town, grey presumably unknowns and/or leans, since there also colours, and orange for third party.That makes a lot of sense. I understand the logic now.
It’s a weird way to do it sure, but I guess FoU thought it might better represent his feelings on the players than just saying it?
Can we just full-claim at this point? I want to lynch today and I'm more comfortable when everybody puts their cards on the table during a maybe mylo situation.Max: I'm not going to ask you to tell us everything, but there's something about your gift-giving I'd like explained.Sure.
You wrote this early D2,[...]
Then gave the following:[...] Suggesting the gifting ability is an auto you can't even turn off, not even by dying.
These don't really check out... could you explain?
One of my starting abilities is kind of like an active developer. I used that ability n1, and gained a new ability that automatically hands out randomly-selected gifts to random people during the day. Then, at the beginning of d2 (moments after I got it), this activated.
Unless I'm stupid my role has very narrow utility. I'm a super befriendist and I can feed everyone who targets NJW2000, which has a 75%/25% chance of me befriending or infecting the target.
@NJW:Because FoU wanting to die is main reason I think Hector mafia.
I don't understand why you didn't argue that a mafia!Hector would defend FoU to simply look good instead of adding that FoU was partners with Hector and would flip town. Why go for the more outrageous argument over the more reasonable one?
Otherwise, he looks ok.
Anyways do you guys want any beer? I bought a lot for social occasions expecting other people to drink it as well but it didn't really pan out the way I expected and don't really want to get through all of it myself.
I am a Crazy Bumbler. I learn role names with my inspect.That is terrible.
PM me your address and I'll drive over.
Tell me about it.I am a Crazy Bumbler. I learn role names with my inspect.That is terrible.
It’s random so… possibly not an ideal strategy.Oh
Not on me anyway. If everyone claims their name I can at least say if someone is lying or not.There's no reason to lie about your name even if you're mafia. We probably shouldn't have said our names but I didn't realize, oh well. Nobody else say their names at least.
Toony: Did you ever follow up on this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8405024#msg8405024)? Didn't need an answer to feel good about Knightwing?Knightwing ignores me all the fucking time, even as town.Town!FoU was ordering his reads list with the colours. Green was town, grey presumably unknowns and/or leans, since there also colours, and orange for third party.That makes a lot of sense. I understand the logic now.
It’s a weird way to do it sure, but I guess FoU thought it might better represent his feelings on the players than just saying it?Can we just full-claim at this point? I want to lynch today and I'm more comfortable when everybody puts their cards on the table during a maybe mylo situation.Max: I'm not going to ask you to tell us everything, but there's something about your gift-giving I'd like explained.Sure.
You wrote this early D2,[...]
Then gave the following:[...] Suggesting the gifting ability is an auto you can't even turn off, not even by dying.
These don't really check out... could you explain?
One of my starting abilities is kind of like an active developer. I used that ability n1, and gained a new ability that automatically hands out randomly-selected gifts to random people during the day. Then, at the beginning of d2 (moments after I got it), this activated.
I'm Forensics Purpleic, during the night I can target a random player and convert them to a normal townie if they're third-party.
That's it.
busted roleYou started this game with quest and three autos? Wtf
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepbusted roleYou started this game with quest and three autos? Wtf
The generator is actually capable of making unboundedly large roles. I think I would advise notquitethere to try limiting the potential swinginess. My role and hector's completely trash role, for example, shouldn't really coexist.
Lone Doubleivor: You are an identical twin with you yourself, but your twin doesn't know about you. A random half of actions targeting one of you will target the other instead. During the night you can eavesdrop a random player. Action: eavesdrop
Police Frameist: During the night you can frame another player. Action: frame
During the day you can befriend a random player. Action: befriend
Upon dying for the first time, you will revive without flipping, and with a newly generated role, and, if third-party, you will become a town-ally
You have the following one-shot ability: you can copy a random third of the players (one use). Action: copy
During the night you can consume a random player. Action: consume
I just got this one testing the generator for ideas:That is a really good name for that, though.QuoteLone Doubleivor: You are an identical twin with you yourself, but your twin doesn't know about you. A random half of actions targeting one of you will target the other instead. During the night you can eavesdrop a random player. Action: eavesdrop
PM me your address and I'll drive over.
Hey! I can’t be bothered to respond to everything everybody asks of me, my attention span is too short, my ADHD won’t allow it.
The generator is actually capable of making unboundedly large roles. I think I would advise notquitethere to try limiting the potential swinginess. My role and hector's completely trash role, for example, shouldn't really coexist.
Are you going to vote anybody during Day 2?
Are you going to vote anybody during Day 2?
Well, I was annoyed at Jim because he hammered, but then Toony said it wasn’t very probable or whateverDo you usually believe everything Toony tells you? What if Toony and Jim are the scumteam? :P
Well, I was annoyed at Jim because he hammered, but then Toony said it wasn’t very probable or whateverI would probably be voting Jim if NJW didn't exist. Or Max.
So look, what are we doing today? I could lynch either of two people. You can probably figure out who I mean.I don't really think KW is mafia here though.
Anyway, I think, unless KW wants to grill some more, that we’ve talked out the day. We seem to favour NJW for the elimination, everyone has claimed, and frankly this is getting boring.I want to enjoy my weekend. Then I'll vote NJW.
NJW
Haha, I feel like I should be surprised, but I did SAY it, right?So look, what are we doing today? I could lynch either of two people. You can probably figure out who I mean.I don't really think KW is mafia here though.
My real hesitation to vote NJW is because I don't see him being with anybody. Even you Knightwing, I can't really see that either right now after thinking about it, because he was trying to catch you out at the start of D2 after you claimed. I mean this is easy street if it's solo mafia, but I also don't believe this setup is solo mafia with just Tric as third-party.It does seem like there must be a mally, but I don't know who it is. Hell, maybe it WAS Fallacy, although I don't really think so. It would be pretty funny if NJW bussed his mally d1 for town cred, not knowing that he had a death godfather ability too... but that would be absolutely ridiculous even for a proc gen game. It's probably just KW or Jim, or from my perspective, even you (and me from yours). Or hector. That's all possible choices, so it must be one of them. If NJW is the real scum, it doesn't matter. I don't really think he's the mally, since he seems to be trying NOT to draw heat.
I want to enjoy my weekend. Then I'll vote NJW.Ugggh, fine, but try to be quick about it. unvote FOR NOW.
I also was too busy tonight to explain why I think FoU is definitely town and I want to do that before day end.
Anyway, I think, unless KW wants to grill some more, that we’ve talked out the day. We seem to favour NJW for the elimination, everyone has claimed, and frankly this is getting boring.I want to enjoy my weekend. Then I'll vote NJW.
NJW
I also was too busy tonight to explain why I think FoU is definitely town and I want to do that before day end.
Haha, I feel like I should be surprised, but I did SAY it, right?So look, what are we doing today? I could lynch either of two people. You can probably figure out who I mean.I don't really think KW is mafia here though.
Yeah, I wouldn't strongly say he's mafia at all, but he's clearly being unhelpful. So I guess I should go with my other choice, because I agree with hector that this is getting boring. NJW.My real hesitation to vote NJW is because I don't see him being with anybody. Even you Knightwing, I can't really see that either right now after thinking about it, because he was trying to catch you out at the start of D2 after you claimed. I mean this is easy street if it's solo mafia, but I also don't believe this setup is solo mafia with just Tric as third-party.It does seem like there must be a mally, but I don't know who it is. Hell, maybe it WAS Fallacy, although I don't really think so. It would be pretty funny if NJW bussed his mally d1 for town cred, not knowing that he had a death godfather ability too... but that would be absolutely ridiculous even for a proc gen game. It's probably just KW or Jim, or from my perspective, even you (and me from yours). Or hector. That's all possible choices, so it must be one of them. If NJW is the real scum, it doesn't matter. I don't really think he's the mally, since he seems to be trying NOT to draw heat.
KW is the only one who's been unwilling to vote NJW at all, so I guess I think he's the mally, but he's doing a very good job if he is.I want to enjoy my weekend. Then I'll vote NJW.Ugggh, fine, but try to be quick about it. unvote FOR NOW.
I also was too busy tonight to explain why I think FoU is definitely town and I want to do that before day end.
One thing to note about a no elimination is that NJW has claimed a vote blocking ability. Even if NJW is town, and they use it wrong, the town’s ability to win is reduced significantly, especially in the case of two scum.I mean, if I use it wrong with two scum, town loses. But then again, if I vote wrong and there's two scum tomorrow, town loses. So not a particularly compelling notion.
NJW2000 because waiting blows.Says it all, really.
I have almost no idea who I'd use it on, so don't think the block is very likely to do much.Let's say you're town, you get voted off today, and the game continues to D3. Who is the single mafia here?
I'm writing a big post.
I'm writing a big post.
Must be a huge post.
I've spent a lot of time reading the thread too so that takes up a lot of time.I'm writing a big post.
Must be a huge post.
I am genuinely deeply unsure. You, Max and Jim have for D1 and D2 been presenting minimal cases, barely pressuring anyone, picking over mechanical information instead of considering people's daygame, and following a broad and obvious consensus with little evidence of thinking it through. Naturally, you can't all be scum, but I'm hard pressed to say which of the three of you looks worst, especially as I can't really read Max.I'll give you a hint: If you didn't kill Tric then Jim or Knightwing did. Hector could have too, but I don't agree with that.
Hector has been saying dubious things based on dubious arguments from time to time, but he does seem marginally more invested in the game. I think this is town!Knightwing, otherwise KW's scum game has finally clicked a little, at least to the point of not self-destructing.So then that leaves Jim for you.
Does a super befriendist mean it can't be redirected or blocked?
4. I like Jim. :)
I would like to stick up for NJW more like this, but their theory on Hector not only being mafia, but also planning some insane bus with FoU really drives me crazy. Like sure I can see NJW wanting to argue that Hector is mafia. Hector could have killed Tric after all. Hector seemed quite sure that Tric used their global attract. Hector was right about FoU being town. These are all things mafia would be sure of. But NJW wants to be his odd-ass self and I just don't understand the Hector-FoU case he's trying instead.
NJW has said a lot of hypocritical stuff this game, but they looked super confused at the start of D2 which doesn't really make sense to me if they're mafia. They first say they think they were disabled (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8405019#msg8405019) and then later say they voteblocked Hector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245.msg8405203#msg8405203) and are confused why this isn't the case. It's like the idea of Tric using their global attract went right over their head. Are they purposely playing dumb here?
I say this specifically because mafia would not have tried to kill Tric, so they would obviously fucking know they got redirected to Tric instead thanks to the global attract. So either NJW isn't mafia or they're acting dumb to look town. It's kind of convincing.
I'm tired. Why is a day deadline at like 2am on a Sunday?
Pretty sure Tric said they would use the disable on NJW if FoU flipped town at some point on D1.Hmm yeah, that sounds right. Did NJW just assume Tric would target him to follow the "get befriended by Jim" plan?
I mean that was Tric’a wincon at the time, NJW possibly thought Tric would play to it.Pretty sure Tric said they would use the disable on NJW if FoU flipped town at some point on D1.Hmm yeah, that sounds right. Did NJW just assume Tric would target him to follow the "get befriended by Jim" plan?
Ties at end of day are decided randomly
AGAIN
ARE YOU SERIOUS
BOTH BEFRIEND TARGETS DIED
Also, This kinda reaffirms my suspicion of Jim, he claims befriend, I don’t think there would be two befrienders in a game, both of the people he voted for ended up town, so unless somebody actually claims to have gotten a confirmed Jim town befriend message, I know where my vote is going.
Also also, Toony said that the mafia is either em, or Jim plus Max, and max hasn’t been posting a lot. And now that I think more on it, I’m more confident about my theory. I believe hector is town. Jim or max are mafia/third party.
Jim
I attempted to bake for NJW2000 but with him being dead it probably didn't do anything. I also received another gift; I can learn the role PM of any role that has no abilities in common with any other role, but not who has it. I guess it's useful for catching fakeclaims I guess.That's my "worst power", yes. It's now the most likely one to get handed out because I have two of it. Relatedly, there are no 'copies' or 'pries' in the game.
If it's 2v2 then I'm looking at a hector13/Knightwing64, hector13/Maximum Spin, or a Maximum Spin/Knightwing64 team and each of them are plausible but neither of them leap out to me as likelier than the others.I think this analysis is sound, especially the part where it's not me.
If it's solo scum then it could easily be any of hector13, Knightwing64, or Maximum Spin, although of the three Knightwing64 pops out to me as the more likely choice. hector13 could still be solo scum and his defense of FoU on Day 1 could easily be solo scum work since he has no team to give away and therefore can act in a much townier manner than if he had a team. I think here Maximum Spin is less likely to be solo scum since he has a confirmable N1 action. (The action being: no gifts were given out on D1, he did something N1, D2 and D3 gifts are given out).
Day's just started but Knightwing64's got it all figured out.I'm still as open to this as I said I was yesterday. Moreso, since the other one of the two didn't pan out.
I feel like if I shot Knightwing64 purely based on feel right here it would be the right choice and that if I reread the game (which I'm going to go do) I'll probably still end up voting Knightwing64.
No? I sent, “befriend Toony” and no other communication happened. Do you guys usually get a success message if your stuff works? Because both of my targets died the same night. I chose Toony because he suspected me and if he knew I was town, and I knew he was town, that would narrow it down a lot. But he’s dead.To be completely fair, I don't know that you should have been told, I just assumed. I certainly didn't hear anything about your alignment, though.
I have the worst luck This round
Does ToonyMan have to be alive for the twin interaction to happen?I have no idea! I did ask what would happen, back when I first got the gifting ability, if anyone else got it, though; notquitethere said that actions targetting ToonyMan would be distributed randomly among those that had the ability.
The game is going to get very weird if he doesn't.
Oh shit, I got so distracted by Jim's post that I forgot to say this important thing, though.
I believe I was the mafiakill target, not ToonyMan. My "middle" ability that I hadn't claimed makes me twins with ToonyMan. You can see this entry under "passive evasion" in the generator.
I didn't receive one of my own gifts so I have to assume there's another one floating around. I quested last night; I didn't receive a new power (there's only a 1-in-3 chance) but I would have been untargetable.
This also implies that, if Knightwing really did befriend ToonyMan, it should have hit me and he should have been told his action failed. Knightwing, were you?
I received an ability in the night about being a twin with Toony soooo… unless Jim was lying about what he received D2, Max’s claim is certainly possible.
So yeah. Max can’t be solo scum since the OP says if an action requires a target it can’t be self-targeting, unless specified otherwise.
I think I only choose between Jim and KW today?
On the other hand, If I did have a kill action, why would I claim to have visited them when they turn up dead?
Well, I already suspected Jim, so that doesn’t do much for me. I’m pretty sure Nim claimed to have a befriend ability, anybody confirmed to have gotten a message?
It’s always Jim that does it, fucking Jimmy boy, the slim Jim, the Jim who misses a limbLook, if you can convince me that it's Jim, I'll vote Jim. At the very least then it will be down to chance.
Nobody is even voting KW and they’re freaked over being eliminated. Is that genuine frustration, or scum getting panicky?I have no idea. He's done both before.
It’s always Jim that does it, fucking Jimmy boy, the slim Jim, the Jim who misses a limbLook, if you can convince me that it's Jim, I'll vote Jim. At the very least then it will be down to chance.
That does mean we'll need to vote him out again tomorrow, though.
Nobody is even voting KW and they’re freaked over being eliminated. Is that genuine frustration, or scum getting panicky?
Telling me that I'm scum with Jim is not convincing me to vote Jim.
Haha, sometimes the reason players are suspicious of you and are twisting things is because they're actually scum.
Gg hectorWow, cold.
Gg hectorWow, cold.
hector powerwolfed the teamGg hectorWow, cold.
The only thing that really leaves me with a sour taste is the rule about ties being resolved randomly. Even if Knightwing64 and I had perfect decision making on Day 3 our path to victory relies on gambling, which conceptually sucks. I think I prefer losing in that situation rather than having a crapshoot with the scumteam over who gets to win.Reasonable. I brought over the tie rule from the last proc gen, which I think I originally instated to keep the game competitive with a small player base (as it pushes for decisive votes) but, yes, randomness at LYLO is a bit off.
Also not knowing how many scum there were at the start of the game.
So...Jim was a JesterUpon dying for the first time, you will revive with a completely false (newly generated) roleflip with a random alignment.
Thus town had lost by Day 3, and mod was a bastard to make them play it out.
So...Jim was a JesterAbsolutely not on both counts. It is as Lenglon says.
Thus town had lost by Day 3, and mod was a bastard to make them play it out.