Post by: webadict on September 16, 2022, 01:58:56 pm
One of the Children identifies the body as webadict. He had apparently been looking into some of the other Children secretly under the orders of The Elder. You can tell even from this distance that these wounds are unnatural, and The Elder hurriedly gets to Their feet.
“We are under attack. An Evil force has infiltrated our midst.” The Elder turned toward the remaining Cultists, moving Their gaze between those present. “We will be quarantining until further notice. All those here will be held until the Evil has been found.” They move towards the doorway, whispering to a suited guard. “I need time to consider what must be done. We will be shifting our plans until further notice.” They leave the room, and you hear several locks slide into place.
There are a few new faces mixed in with some of the veterans, so you decide to take turns introducing yourselves, and by the end, you found that the following people were here…
Players:
- 4maskwolf
- Egan_BW
- EuchreJack
- hector13
- Jim Groovester
- Knightwing64
- Lenglon
- Maximum Spin
- notquitethere
- Persus13
- ToonyMan
- TricMagic
- Vector
- This could be you!
Spoiler: Previous Games (for reference) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Basic Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Potential Town Roles (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2022, 02:02:33 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 16, 2022, 02:07:44 pm
Join
Post by: hector13 on September 16, 2022, 02:15:08 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 16, 2022, 02:26:45 pm
IN
Don’t ruin this one with everybody wins nonsense
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 16, 2022, 02:29:50 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 16, 2022, 02:33:16 pm
Witch is a town role? HuhMaybe read some of the past games for an idea how Supernatural works.
Town roles are known.
Mafia roles could be from any group.
Post by: webadict on September 16, 2022, 02:36:42 pm
Witch is a town role? HuhTown archetypes are known, though how they might be integrated is... debatable.
Basically, imagine something with a Web flavor mixed with a Meph game framework.
The games were linked because it shows how a role could be used, but those are not necessarily the only ways those roles can be used!
Post by: Persus13 on September 16, 2022, 03:04:20 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2022, 03:11:07 pm
Post by: webadict on September 16, 2022, 03:13:28 pm
Hmm, do I come out of Mafia retirement for a Supernatural? I'll definitely watch this if I don't play. I'll need to think if I want to join over the weekend though.Sign-ups are gonna be up for at least until Monday, or until we get, like, 13 players? If we somehow get 13 players, I'll close sign-ups early. That sounds fair. I've got Covid atm, so I'm not gonna start it over the weekend.
Post by: hector13 on September 16, 2022, 03:16:43 pm
I was knocked out for a month when I had Covid, but that was OG Covid, pre-vaccine.
Post by: webadict on September 16, 2022, 03:27:15 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 16, 2022, 05:45:34 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 16, 2022, 05:56:03 pm
I got tested positive, and got to stay home from school but felt absolutely nothing. So I dunno if it was a weak COVID thing or wotEither carrier or false positive. Carrier means that you get infected but it doesn't affect you. carriers still spread though so you still need to stay home for the full period as though you were infected the normal way. false positive simply means the test buggered up.
Post by: Vector on September 16, 2022, 06:08:36 pm
Knightwing, ya got lucky. I'm glad you didn't end up having symptoms. (I also currently am suffering from the Covfefe)
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 16, 2022, 06:22:12 pm
Anyway, I'll give it a shot, in.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 16, 2022, 11:34:39 pm
Uuuuuuuurgh fine that’s too good of a player list to pass up.
In
Post by: hector13 on September 16, 2022, 11:38:26 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 16, 2022, 11:41:35 pm
Uh huh. Not feeling left out or nuffin’.Ilu2 Hector I just don’t know you as well as them mafia-wise <3
Post by: Lenglon on September 16, 2022, 11:42:40 pm
In
Post by: hector13 on September 16, 2022, 11:44:48 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 16, 2022, 11:45:41 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 16, 2022, 11:47:57 pm
Last time I saw people say that she was stabbing the shit out of townies every night.They got better!
"mrow"
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 16, 2022, 11:52:35 pm
Or am I misremembering games.
Post by: Lenglon on September 16, 2022, 11:56:04 pm
Oh that’s RIGHT you faked a post restriction that whole game didn’t you?Lenglon gets her phone out and sends 4mask a text message
Or am I misremembering games.
Quote from: Lenglon to 4mask
restrict post was rp postsYou remember it fine.
I wanted to play similarly in a recent match (with much better clarity of communication in my posts) but sadly some members of the current player pool doesn't seem to be able to RP while still scumhunting - they only do one or the other, and if I start it these others would follow along and do the same so sadly I can't do that in games they're in it seems like.
Post by: notquitethere on September 17, 2022, 01:27:41 am
Post by: Persus13 on September 17, 2022, 11:49:26 am
Sorry to hear y'all have the virus, hope you recover quickly!
Post by: Egan_BW on September 17, 2022, 01:21:24 pm
Post by: webadict on September 19, 2022, 07:24:33 am
I'll be working on the balancing a bit, but the goal will be a start either late today or early tomorrow. Probably the latter, since Persus13 isn't here until Tuesday.
Post by: TricMagic on September 19, 2022, 10:11:01 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 19, 2022, 10:50:18 am
In if we would hit 13. Can we hit 13?Hector13...Persus13...what does it mean?
Post by: hector13 on September 19, 2022, 11:16:50 am
Post by: webadict on September 19, 2022, 11:24:26 am
In if we would hit 13. Can we hit 13?Would need 1 mooooooore.
I'll assume you're not in unless a 13th shows up or you say you're in for sure.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 19, 2022, 04:52:53 pm
I have a new job, so I don't have the time that I used to have. Expect more after-hours posting.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 19, 2022, 05:28:17 pm
New jobbbbb
Hope it’s a good one :)
Post by: TricMagic on September 19, 2022, 05:58:50 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 19, 2022, 06:05:29 pm
Post by: webadict on September 19, 2022, 09:39:26 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 19, 2022, 09:42:05 pm
Post by: webadict on September 20, 2022, 01:45:04 pm
The Elder exits from the Main Hall, taking Their time before They speak.
“My children. I have identified the cause of your siblings murder,” They being. “Monsters have infiltrated our ranks, and while my Vision was once true enough to be able to pierce their veil, time has taken It from me. Thus, I know that with your help, you can find the monsters among you and cast them before all of us. We will sacrifice them to the Burning Sun.”
As They speak, several Children move a large device behind Them. The device begins to glow, and a large burning red ball appears. The heat causes you to shield your eyes and move back, but The Elder appears unphased.
“Fear not, Children. The Burning Sun will only harm those with ill intent! Those of you who are innocent will feel nothing, giving your power to a greater being!”
There are concerns and questions, but The Elder does not answer them.
“Pick the first sacrifice.”
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
hector13 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 13 - 4maskwolf, Egan_BW, EuchreJack, hector13, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64, Lenglon, Maximum Spin, notquitethere, Persus13, ToonyMan, TricMagic, Vector,
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~78 hours remaining).
It is now Day 1.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 01:48:53 pm
Yeet!
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 02:01:10 pm
Very funny. I'm happy you aren't claiming TP (because I'd kill ya), but are aware of last Supernatural enough to vote me. Your playfulness is neutral in my eyes. You would do this as town or scum.
Monsters eh...there's a lot of players in this game so I'd wager 3 or 4 non-good players if I could read my cards right.
I can't think of an interesting icebreaker so I'm gonna ask Knightwing a question.
Knightwing, how was your morning today?
Post by: TricMagic on September 20, 2022, 02:14:34 pm
Yeet!
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 02:16:59 pm
Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.
4mask and Tric: Why Toony?
Lenglon glances around, feeling nervous. She is arguably an outsider here, could even find herself being called a Monster, yet she has at least as strong of a motivation to find and remove the Evils here as anyone else. Her friend is dead, and her new home is threatened. She was beginning to get to live out her dream, and then this murder happened, threatening to take it all away. She glanced around, unsure how to feel about them, and not truly knowing what they're capable of.
Still, there's no way out but forward
"I... I should speak up now, I suppose. I... I might be termed a monster, but I was not involved in the death of my friend. I dislike lying, and if I had to do it, it would have consequences upon me. I hope you all are willing to trust me."
However, despite her attempt to be prompt and up-front she still wasn't the first to speak, instead the first speaker was sudden, bold, and without hesitation, demanding that Toonyman be the first to be sacrifice, and providing no explanation but a simple "Yeet!"
"W-what? Um, Why should we sacrifice Toonyman?"
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 20, 2022, 02:19:42 pm
scum victory
N2 Jim kill
TricMagic protects a member of the scum team from a kill
OR
TricMagic revives the D1 lynch into a demon
Vector barely plays and gets lynched because of it
notquitethere, Maximum Spin, and 4maskwolf are the scum team but nobody ever suspects them
Lenglon makes a bunch of RP posts that nobody reads
Jim townreads the scumteam and scumreads the townteam
ToonyMan clutches it out for his team if he makes it to lylo
Knightwing64 gets read as scum regardless of his alignment and regrets having expectations put on him
EuchreJack sheeps the player he most desperately wants approval from and is affected by violent but brief bouts of paranoia
hector13, Persus13, and Egan_BW feel left out because I can't think of something typical enough that they would do
Any other B12 cliches I'm missing?
PPE:
Quote
Lenglon makes a bunch of RP posts that nobody reads
Check off one item from the list.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 20, 2022, 02:27:37 pm
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.
Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.
I can believe the first claim but the second claim I have much more difficulty with.
Toonyman
Yeet!
ToonyMan
Yeet!
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 20, 2022, 02:31:02 pm
Hmm. 4maskwolf
This could be a targeted vote to get dumb people to jump on a bandwagon. Explain your thought process to me carefully and in detail.
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 02:42:27 pm
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.
Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.
I can believe the first claim but the second claim I have much more difficulty with.
Jim: I understand, and you may choose to ignore it if you wish. I simply request that you be understanding if at some point in the future you would prefer or expect me to perform a gambit that involves lying, and I refuse or avoid doing so.
Lenglon hears the claim of doubt from the older man, and though it gives her a mild quiver of nerves, that's just nerves, and this was well within her expectations. She knew some would doubt her, and he didn't respond in a hostile way, just a cautious one.
"I understand. You aren't willing to trust someone to not lie, especially in a high-pressure situation like this. I mostly wanted to make my limits known, and to do it now, when nobody is targeting me, so that hopefully nobody will claim I'm just attempting to save myself when it comes up later."
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 02:51:52 pm
No promises for the future :wowee:
@Lenglon no real thought process, I just looked at the playerlist and decided that of all those players I felt like voting Toonyman first.
@Knightwing See above. It was "meh, I feel like it". It was literally a first-post-of-the-game vote, how much thought and effort do you think went into it?
If I want to guide "dumb people" onto someone I'll have way better tools to do it in -checks watch- 24 hours ish.
Jim Groovester
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 02:55:02 pm
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.I like it. This sort of particular miller claim tickles my fancy and not something I'd think they say on the spot.
Lenglon is town.
@Jim:
The prediction list seems accurate, especially Tric defending scum at night, however I should note my success rate at lylo as mafia is terrible.
@Knightwing:
Knightwing ignoring me? He's town.
@4mask:
You vote bad, why vote bad?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 02:57:57 pm
And thingyman, I vote bad because am bad. I’m also mad cuz bad.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 03:09:19 pm
But my role interacts with monster-type abilities and has a separate clause that it has a different effect if I target a member of the wolf team, so I’m inclined to take Leng’s claim at face value.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 03:14:33 pm
But probably not wolf.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 20, 2022, 03:59:12 pm
.
@Knightwing:
Knightwing ignoring me? He's town.
….
:P
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 04:13:37 pm
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.
Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.
4mask and Tric: Why Toony?
Lenglon glances around, feeling nervous. She is arguably an outsider here, could even find herself being called a Monster, yet she has at least as strong of a motivation to find and remove the Evils here as anyone else. Her friend is dead, and her new home is threatened. She was beginning to get to live out her dream, and then this murder happened, threatening to take it all away. She glanced around, unsure how to feel about them, and not truly knowing what they're capable of.
Still, there's no way out but forward
"I... I should speak up now, I suppose. I... I might be termed a monster, but I was not involved in the death of my friend. I dislike lying, and if I had to do it, it would have consequences upon me. I hope you all are willing to trust me."
However, despite her attempt to be prompt and up-front she still wasn't the first to speak, instead the first speaker was sudden, bold, and without hesitation, demanding that Toonyman be the first to be sacrifice, and providing no explanation but a simple "Yeet!"
"W-what? Um, Why should we sacrifice Toonyman?"
Test for Lengton: Say "I am Good". If you can't, explain.
Going to predict@Jim: You forgot "Jim is scum and totally owns the town."
scum victory
N2 Jim kill
TricMagic protects a member of the scum team from a kill
OR
TricMagic revives the D1 lynch into a demon
Vector barely plays and gets lynched because of it
notquitethere, Maximum Spin, and 4maskwolf are the scum team but nobody ever suspects them
Lenglon makes a bunch of RP posts that nobody reads
Jim townreads the scumteam and scumreads the townteam
ToonyMan clutches it out for his team if he makes it to lylo
Knightwing64 gets read as scum regardless of his alignment and regrets having expectations put on him
EuchreJack sheeps the player he most desperately wants approval from and is affected by violent but brief bouts of paranoia
hector13, Persus13, and Egan_BW feel left out because I can't think of something typical enough that they would do
Any other B12 cliches I'm missing?
PPE:QuoteLenglon makes a bunch of RP posts that nobody reads
Check off one item from the list.
...suspicious. :-\
Pressure vote onto TricMagic. He hasn't said his role yet, so must be scum.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 04:18:11 pm
.
@Knightwing:
Knightwing ignoring me? He's town.
….
:P
Watch out Knighty, if Toony were scum, he'd lull you into not engaging with such statement, then later in Day 1/2 claim your lack of engagement was Proof Positive that you were scum.
Stay alert! ~~ Trust no one! ~~ Keep your laser handy!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2022, 04:24:25 pm
I have a power that implies there's some kind of evil witch.
I'm amused that Jim's typical thing for me to do (along with nqt and 4mask) was basically "win".
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 04:26:45 pm
My actions also have monster tags. I'm Good, though I can't be inspected.
I have a power that implies there's some kind of evil witch.
I'm amused that Jim's typical thing for me to do (along with nqt and 4mask) was basically "win".
Yes, Jim forgot "Max gets eliminated Day 1 for being too obtuse"
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 04:27:23 pm
Jack: Why are you attempting to learn who is Good and who is not, instead of attempting to learn who is Evil and who is not?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2022, 04:39:43 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 04:42:11 pm
"I think it would be best if I didn't answer that Jack, there's only so many Good people here, and aren't the Evils going to want to find and kill them? I think I shouldn't answer that so it will be harder for the Evils to find those Good people... And speaking of that, why are you looking for the Good people instead of the Evil ones? Isn't that what the Evils want to do?"
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 04:43:57 pm
Jack: I should not answer that. Good wins if all Evil players are removed from the game, and if at least one Good player is alive. This means there is a limited pool of Good players here, and Evils will want to kill Good players and avoid killing non-Good players. As such, I should not say if I am Good. What I can say and already have said is that I am not Evil.
Jack: Why are you attempting to learn who is Good and who is not, instead of attempting to learn who is Evil and who is not?
Hm, my assumption is that Good is the town faction, and thus most of us are Good. As further evidence, the Opening post says "An Evil force has infiltrated our midst"
So I believe Town is Good and Mafia is Evil.
Suspicious that you can't say "I am Good".
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 04:45:27 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 04:48:33 pm
So you think we shouldn't lynch third parties if the opportunity arises?Max: I didn't say that Max, but I understand why you might draw that conclusion. I am speaking as precisely as I think I can, and meant exactly what I said. I am not convinced that non-Good, non-Evil, is necessarily Third-Party.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 04:50:20 pm
Sounds like you're a Third Party that doesn't know that you are a Third Party.So you think we shouldn't lynch third parties if the opportunity arises?Max: I didn't say that Max, but I understand why you might draw that conclusion. I am speaking as precisely as I think I can, and meant exactly what I said. I am not convinced that non-Good, non-Evil, is necessarily Third-Party.
Fair enough, I'm only assuming Good = Town, but could be wrong.
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 04:50:39 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 04:52:12 pm
Jack: how's this then - as far as I know, I cannot win if Good does not win.Good enough for Day 1, I guess.
Oh, and you might want to look at the color of your role.
I'm pretty sure Good = Town
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 04:52:19 pm
Suspicious that you can't say "I am Good".I can understand the reservations, but they made their point clear that they're not Evil. I think this shows honesty at least and I like Lenglon's character. Maybe we can assume they're a third-party like Survivor Werebear, but they're afraid to actually full-claim in the face of the previous Supernatural? I don't think they're a good vote today, and we can get a better look at their play as time goes on.
PPE:
This makes it even more clear of course.So you think we shouldn't lynch third parties if the opportunity arises?Max: I didn't say that Max, but I understand why you might draw that conclusion. I am speaking as precisely as I think I can, and meant exactly what I said. I am not convinced that non-Good, non-Evil, is necessarily Third-Party.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 04:53:12 pm
I'm pretty sure Good = TownYou're spoiling it too much for mafia Jack.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 04:55:05 pm
Jack is Confirmed Town! A new record!I'm pretty sure Good = TownYou're spoiling it too much for mafia Jack.
...plez don't kill meez
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 04:56:17 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 04:59:29 pm
Pressure vote onto TricMagic. He hasn't said his role yet, so must be scum.Tric has stayed quiet about their role as town before.
Which I strongly recommend Tric do as town here, last Supernatural they claimed Knight on D1 and it was terrible.
My actions also have monster tags. I'm Good, though I can't be inspected.Got it.
I have a power that implies there's some kind of evil witch.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2022, 05:07:19 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 05:10:18 pm
ToonyMan, you can't tell Tric not to do his only towntell. :PI don't think anybody can stop Tric from doing what they want.
Post by: notquitethere on September 20, 2022, 05:16:00 pm
Oh don't you go
All supernatural (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXbUX_xvb8A)on me
I love this game setup. I'm trying to dig through my old notes from Mephansteras' Supernatural. Dunno how much Webadict will have played with the basic roles (probably a fair bit). But doesn't help to be armed with some Information.
Useful Info
Spoiler: Previous Compositions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Anti-Town Factions (click to show/hide)
All to say, there's 13 players, so we can expect 3-5 anti-town players.
(I'll start playing in earnest in my next post.)
Post by: Persus13 on September 20, 2022, 05:21:16 pm
In the past the main scumteams I recall were flavored as lycanthropes, vampires, mages, and cultists of some kind. Given that the flavor of this game is that we're cultists (Children of the Elder and all that), I'm a little doubtful that we'll get cultists as the bad guy team, but we haven't seen the kill flavor yet. Am I forgetting a game here?
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.Hmm, interesting. There's one, maybe two roles on the town list I could see having the Monster tag, so its possible you're that, but still hmm.
Toony:
Which I strongly recommend Tric do as town here, last Supernatural they claimed Knight on D1 and it was terrible.Oh god I'd blocked that out of my memory. Given that you've played at least 7 out of the 10 regular Supernatural games, what's your favorite moment from those, and what's a mistake you hope not to repeat for this game?
PPE: And NQT ninjas me with better analysis as usual. Dangit.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 05:29:45 pm
To be fair tric was pressured into claiming because he implied he was SK Werebear II: Electric Boogaloo.Pressure vote onto TricMagic. He hasn't said his role yet, so must be scum.Tric has stayed quiet about their role as town before.
Which I strongly recommend Tric do as town here, last Supernatural they claimed Knight on D1 and it was terrible.My actions also have monster tags. I'm Good, though I can't be inspected.Got it.
I have a power that implies there's some kind of evil witch.
Post by: hector13 on September 20, 2022, 05:31:37 pm
Lenglon’s probably third-party if their claim about a post-restriction is true, but I have my doubts it is.
There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.
Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.
Anyway, I’m mostly discomfited by the wording of the claim. “Should not lie” as opposed to “cannot lie”, “could face consequences” as opposed to “will face consequences”.
I can’t quite articulate what bothers me about it, but I think feels like almost hedging? As opposed to making specific statements. I get if they
PPE: 5 posts came in while writing this and being distracted by things, and I haven’t read ‘em yet.
Post by: notquitethere on September 20, 2022, 05:35:12 pm
Going to predictI'm going to predict:
- I'm super confident about the setup and get blindsided on D3 by some new kind of cult Web made up
- 4mask is scum and attempts some completely unnecessary fancy play
- Jim and Toony are evil third parties again but they get away with it because of the gamblers fallacy
- Persus13 has to replace out and someone we haven't seen in ages like Tiruin or Cheeetar replaces in
- TricMagic protects the cult leader from the town vig's kill
Vector, which player is already giving you a bad feeling?
Hector13
Aww nobody chose entrance music :( (blue) meanies.I had entrance music!
There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lieThis seems like a really dangerous line to push. There are loads of situations where town should lie in mafia, aren't there?
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.I'm guessing some kind of were-beast. We should be on the look out for bodies killed with claws or teeth.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 05:36:55 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 05:41:20 pm
Aww nobody chose entrance music :( (blue) meanies.Eh, maybe we'll do Ending Music as we die off instead. :P
Lenglon’s probably third-party if their claim about a post-restriction is true, but I have my doubts it is.
There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.
Anyway, I’m mostly discomfited by the wording of the claim. “Should not lie” as opposed to “cannot lie”, “could face consequences” as opposed to “will face consequences”.
I can’t quite articulate what bothers me about it, but I think feels like almost hedging? As opposed to making specific statements. I get if theycan’tshouldn’t lie, but this feels like something they should know the specifics of and not have to come across worried about lying about, given it’d be in their PM.
PPE: 5 posts came in while writing this and being distracted by things, and I haven’t read ‘em yet.
Apparently, Lenglon using a post restriction to cover for being scum is a thing she did before.
NQT's analysis pointed out three varieties of Third Party that are either neutral or pro-town, hence why I'm inclined to put off voting Lenglon today.
NQT seems to be defending Lenglon. Interesting.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2022, 05:45:39 pm
I have entrance music, it's not my fault if you can't hear it.
No, lynch all liars.There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lieThis seems like a really dangerous line to push. There are loads of situations where town should lie in mafia, aren't there?
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 05:48:20 pm
Hector: My claim is phrased that way because my restriction, as Web has stated repeatedly as how he does them when discussing post restrictions in setup discussions, can technically be ignored if I choose to do so (it's opt-in). If I do that, and then choose to perform a specific action, very bad things will happen to me. If I never do that action, I would have no negative effects from lying. I am technically capable of lying, it is just highly inadvisable and I do not intend to lie at any point this game. That is why the odd phrasing.
Post by: notquitethere on September 20, 2022, 05:52:28 pm
- 4mask is scum
Never have I been so offended by something so true.Interesting slip
NQT's analysis pointed out three varieties of Third Party that are either neutral or pro-town, hence why I'm inclined to put off voting Lenglon today.There are also a lot of third parties who are anti-town, so this reasoning won't fly indefinitely. Also, I'm not defending Lenglon, I'm saying all town players should be on the look out for monstrous kills, as Lenglon has claimed to be a truth-telling monster. The methods of death are usually known in Supernatural, so it'll be obvious if there's a werewolf etc.
NQT seems to be defending Lenglon. Interesting.
No, lynch all liars.Too simplistic. I partially claim, mislead, imply and outright fabricate as town if it's useful for outplaying scum. Scum thrive in an environment where they have good info on town powers and know who they have to kill and who they need to redirect etc. I beseech all my fellow town players to lie.
Lenglon
NQT / Perseus: my role is not on your list of previous roles. I believe you would consider me either town or town-ally if you had access to my role pm.Well do you have a town wincon or not? It's not what I would consider, it's what you have. You're either town or you're not.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 05:53:50 pm
My role, for example, is technically a variant on an existing role on that spreadsheet, which makes sense thematically but the actual utility I provide is completely distinct from the base role.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 05:54:23 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2022, 05:54:45 pm
So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!No, lynch all liars.Too simplistic. I partially claim, mislead, imply and outright fabricate as town if it's useful for outplaying scum. Scum thrive in an environment where they have good info on town powers and know who they have to kill and who they need to redirect etc. I beseech all my fellow town players to lie.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 20, 2022, 06:00:48 pm
Bro you just posted cringe. You are going to lose subscribers.So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!No, lynch all liars.Too simplistic. I partially claim, mislead, imply and outright fabricate as town if it's useful for outplaying scum. Scum thrive in an environment where they have good info on town powers and know who they have to kill and who they need to redirect etc. I beseech all my fellow town players to lie.
Post by: notquitethere on September 20, 2022, 06:01:22 pm
Please, you and I both know what I was referring to NQT.Hence why I wasn't voting you over it! I look forward to seeing the fancy play though.
Considering that we already know at least one new mechanic (monster actions) and that Web had a huge number of ideas for a Supernatural game, it may be best to treat this game as a thematically similar game to previous supernaturals that we can’t rely on mechanics from.Yes and no. The tags are very Wuba, and some roles may have been changed or expanded, but the basic ideas are there. For example, if someone claims to have been resurrected by a priest, we can expect they might have changed alignment; if someone says they have item based powers we can be pretty sure they're lying; if a body turns up with stab wounds they probably weren't murdered by a werebear, and so on. While the game is certainly different, we can still reason about the game.
So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!Haha, come on.
Post by: hector13 on September 20, 2022, 06:12:55 pm
*sees NQT voting me*
Quite the heel-turn :o
Quote
hector13 on Today at 05:31:37 pm
There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie
This seems like a really dangerous line to push. There are loads of situations where town should lie in mafia, aren't there?
((Bleurgh pfp is hard with quotes))
There are situations in which lying can be beneficial to town, sure, but there are plenty of situations in which town can tell the truth too.
Lying isn’t a necessity for town to succeed is what I was getting at, so it shouldn’t (at least for me) factor into an opening post claim. I don’t think I’ve ever come into a game as town figuring I would have to lie to win the game, or that if my ability to lie was hampered it would make it harder to win as town.
Hector: My claim is phrased that way because my restriction, as Web has stated repeatedly as how he does them when discussing post restrictions in setup discussions, can technically be ignored if I choose to do so (it's opt-in). If I do that, and then choose to perform a specific action, very bad things will happen to me. If I never do that action, I would have no negative effects from lying. I am technically capable of lying, it is just highly inadvisable and I do not intend to lie at any point this game. That is why the odd phrasing.
You’re basically telling me I can’t trust you, then. You’ve admitted to adhering to the post restriction for your own gain, and the way you’re phrasing things can be used to hide mistruths that don’t necessarily meet the definition of a lie.
However I did say that if the restriction was true you’d probably be a TP, so… whatever, I guess? It’s a power heavy game, I’m sure somebody has the means to deal with you if need be.
More tomorrow probably.
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 06:21:34 pm
Hector: Generally you shouldn't completely trust anyone in a mafia game, so...
And my primary motivation for choosing to follow the post restriction is RP-based, rather than for my own gain. But I understand why you wouldn't trust or care about that.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 20, 2022, 06:39:25 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2022, 07:11:14 pm
If you're scum, continue as you are.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 20, 2022, 07:25:33 pm
Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.+1
If you're scum, continue as you are.
Post by: hector13 on September 20, 2022, 07:26:40 pm
I have considered short-duration lies, typically corrected before day's end, to be a major part of Town's toolbox for a very long time. I currently do not recall a single game I have played where I was town and did not perform some form of lie at least once at some point throughout the game. In each case that comes to mind I at some point would lie in order to attempt to manipulate the scumteam.
Hector: Generally you shouldn't completely trust anyone in a mafia game, so...
And my primary motivation for choosing to follow the post restriction is RP-based, rather than for my own gain. But I understand why you wouldn't trust or care about that.
Exactly, so you’re not going to claim being unable to lie as town, limiting your toolbox thusly, or your town capital later.
Consequently, you’re either telling the truth, in which case you’re TP and not worth pursuing right now, or you’re not, but I can’t prove that, and thus not worth pursuing right now.
So I can completely distrust you and be fine with that in a power heavy game. For right now.
Jim
I’ll jump on the Jim wagon until I come back tomorrow, because the Toony wagon collapsed.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 20, 2022, 07:26:49 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 20, 2022, 07:30:37 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 07:33:53 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 20, 2022, 07:38:04 pm
Knightwing: I found Jack's questions for me, where he tested if I was willing to say the phrase "I am Good", as suspicious, because to me they did not help him find Evil, and only helped him find Good. Since I believe that Evil wants to find Good, to me that was Evil behavior. Do you think Jack was acting like an Evil? Why or why not?
Kinda? It’s iffy, I don’t have a definite opinion, but Jack jumping onto Max’s totally friendly and not a accusation advice seems to me like knowing I’m a easy lynch d1 and trying to get somebody out fast.
So, if you really wanted to push for a early option, probably Evil.
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 07:42:57 pm
Post by: Persus13 on September 20, 2022, 07:46:11 pm
Have I played with you before Knightwing? What's your Mafia experience here?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 20, 2022, 07:48:02 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 20, 2022, 07:52:24 pm
I'm realizing Knightwing is probably the name I recognize the least.
Have I played with you before Knightwing? What's your Mafia experience here?
I… don’t think so?
My mafia experience is pretty much one of two things consistently
Me being considered scum and voted out by wrong but well meaning townies for reasons I don’t understand
Or I’m a unknown who is playing 6D chess with my enlarged cranium.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2022, 07:59:19 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 08:06:16 pm
Post by: Mamobo on September 20, 2022, 08:09:47 pm
------------------------
Jim Groovester - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409137#msg8409137), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409250#msg8409250),
4maskwolf - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409124#msg8409124),
hector13 - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409214#msg8409214),
notquitethere - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409226#msg8409226),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409115#msg8409115),
TricMagic - 1 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409166#msg8409166),
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 6 - Egan_BW, Jim Groovester, Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409178#msg8409178), Persus13, ToonyMan, Vector,
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~71 hours remaining).
Post by: webadict on September 20, 2022, 08:11:38 pm
Post by: Vector on September 20, 2022, 08:43:45 pm
That gives people enough time to find their entrance music.
ohai guyz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezrbyf6t9mY)
Vector, which player is already giving you a bad feeling?
EuchreJack and Knightwing64. I really don't think this is town!EuchreJack because that version of him is usually more relaxed and engaged.
I also didn't like this sequence of posts, like, at all:
Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.+1
If you're scum, continue as you are.
What do you mean? I’ve been plenty active. I can’t post at all parts of the day. But I’ll try to post more, if you really think that. Not today though, I’m mad tired
To me, this seems kinda out of left field. Especially from you, Jack.
The last appeal to abnormal behavior, broken into two posts, is unusual ... Knightwing! Why so nervous? And EJ, why just the +1?
There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.
Possibilities include that Lenglon can't perform specific types of lying; or that it's just a conversation piece.
Knightwing: I do not believe you are an easy lynch D1 at this point in time, and more importantly I don't think Jack's actions around you are suspicious at this time, even though I do think Jack is mildly suspicious from his earlier behavior. What is your opinion about lying as town? Is it something that town players should never ever do? If so, why? If not, when and why should town players lie?
Lenglon, given that you're voting EJ, why did you make this post?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 09:02:14 pm
Given that you've played at least 7 out of the 10 regular Supernatural games, what's your favorite moment from those, and what's a mistake you hope not to repeat for this game?I don't really remember. I think there was one where I carried town and we won so I like that one.
*A few minutes later*
I checked, it was Supernatural 7. We went to Day 7 and I was alive for lylo and we won as town taking down the Dark Magus Persus13:
Yeah I guess he's the only mafia left, otherwise it'd be game over.
Persus13
@Hector:
Aww nobody chose entrance music :( (blue) meanies.I agree that Lenglon probably isn't "town", but I don't think they're mafia. I don't think they're Evil or in other words worth voting.
Lenglon’s probably third-party if their claim about a post-restriction is true, but I have my doubts it is.
There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.
@NQT:
Pretty much agree with all of this.No, lynch all liars.Too simplistic. I partially claim, mislead, imply and outright fabricate as town if it's useful for outplaying scum. Scum thrive in an environment where they have good info on town powers and know who they have to kill and who they need to redirect etc. I beseech all my fellow town players to lie.
@Knightwing:
To me, this seems kinda out of left field. Especially from you, Jack.Look elsewhere, Jack is probably town or being a tryhard.
Also Jack, don't bother. Knightwing is town here. Right Max?
I would be more critical of Max than Jack here Knightwing. I've got Jack. You can get Max.Knightwing: I found Jack's questions for me, where he tested if I was willing to say the phrase "I am Good", as suspicious, because to me they did not help him find Evil, and only helped him find Good. Since I believe that Evil wants to find Good, to me that was Evil behavior. Do you think Jack was acting like an Evil? Why or why not?Kinda? It’s iffy, I don’t have a definite opinion, but Jack jumping onto Max’s totally friendly and not a accusation advice seems to me like knowing I’m a easy lynch d1 and trying to get somebody out fast.
So, if you really wanted to push for a early option, probably Evil.
@Lenglon:
Knightwing: I found Jack's questions for me, where he tested if I was willing to say the phrase "I am Good", as suspicious, because to me they did not help him find Evil, and only helped him find Good. Since I believe that Evil wants to find Good, to me that was Evil behavior. Do you think Jack was acting like an Evil? Why or why not?Finding Good is good.
Evil finding Good only matters if they really want to avoid killing non-Town players, although chances are they'll kill Good anyway since most of us are, right?
@Max:
So far I find this Knightwing adequate. Not going to vote you out today.Yep.
@Vector:
EuchreJack and Knightwing64. I really don't think this is town!EuchreJack because that version of him is usually more relaxed and engaged.I feel exactly the opposite, why?
Jack and Knightwing's conservation looked very natural and not like scumbuddies, do you think one is scum?
Jack is posting a shit-ton because they're overly eager and just spew exactly how they're feeling when they're town.
Knightwing is trying to convey thoughts (that can be wrong, but still) and double-posting isn't unusual for town!KW. I believe he currently needs to rely on others, but wants to improve by trying to be independent and chase scum himself. This is what he's showing by being suspicious of Jack, even if I think it's incorrect.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 09:04:13 pm
conversation*
I will say if I had to pick one between the two, I would also vote Jack, not that I agree.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 09:07:58 pm
Jim Groovester - Good
Knightwing64 - Good
Lenglon - Not Evil
4maskwolf - I would say Good but I have to respect their play
notquitethere - I would say Good but I clearly need work here lately
hector13 - don't know, not confident
Maximum Spin - don't know, not confident
Persus13 - don't know, not confident
TricMagic - don't know, need to see more
Vector - don't know, need to see more
Egan_BW - hasn't posted
Post by: Vector on September 20, 2022, 09:09:46 pm
Jack and Knightwing's conservation looked very natural and not like scumbuddies, do you think one is scum?
It's pinging me, and this early in the game, that's more than enough. I'm not looking at teams yet. We're less than 24h into D1.
I'll say more after one of the people I tagged replies.
Post by: Lenglon on September 20, 2022, 09:12:11 pm
Toony: I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are correct, and that it wasn't a concern after all, but I did not know that at the time, and thought that the Good players might only be a sub-faction of town, which would require protection. At the time of Jack's question, they were lacking the same information I was, and so I remain concerned about their questioning, but it is currently only a cause for mild suspicion, as I said to Knightwing earlier.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 09:21:37 pm
Given that you've played at least 7 out of the 10 regular Supernatural games, what's your favorite moment from those, and what's a mistake you hope not to repeat for this game?Oh right...
As for mistakes I don't wish to repeat, some of them are out of my control, like if there's one mafia that converts a vig tonight I'm just going to be mad because finding one scum is annoyingly hard already with so many players and then the extra kill power would push me beyond upset. I don't think Web would do that, but he'd maybe subvert it in some way. There's a lot of Monster stuff going on here.
If we had listened to Luckyowl on D1 of Supernatural 10 and lynched Web we would have been most likely victorious, but we didn't. So maybe I need to take into account even the most inexperienced player's opinion for success. I can't be too dismissive of things that are actually possible, especially when a lynch is happily going through and nobody but the person being lynched is doing anything. Contentment is probably our demise.
Toony: I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are correct, and that it wasn't a concern after all, but I did not know that at the time, and thought that the Good players might only be a sub-faction of town, which would require protection. At the time of Jack's question, they were lacking the same information I was, and so I remain concerned about their questioning, but it is currently only a cause for mild suspicion, as I said to Knightwing earlier.If you can help find Good just as much as Evil that would be appreciated, Lenglon.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 09:26:18 pm
I'll vote TricMagic, what's going on dude? Gonna claim Knight again?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 20, 2022, 11:04:23 pm
I didn't explain why Jim is good and that's because I'm biased and like their first post.
I am a Jimp. I'm more likely to join a game if Jim is in them. I don't want to vote Jim unless I have to because I want them around. I feel I'm usually not wrong, but I'm saying this to clarify my read and be honest with everyone.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2022, 11:05:24 pm
if there's one mafia that converts a vig tonightI think that's plausible.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 12:03:54 am
God, if I had known how many Supernatural games featured cults, I probably would have abstained from this mess. Fuck cults.if there's one mafia that converts a vig tonightI think that's plausible.
Anyone who played/read one of the previous Supernaturals able to explain some of the possible cults we might be facing?
Hey, where is Egan_BW?
Another player that I worry about when they disappear, but not as much as Tric.
Post by: hector13 on September 21, 2022, 12:35:52 am
I want to vote Hector for fundamentally disagreeing with what they're saying, but I don't know if that makes them scum. They haven't done the scumtell I've picked up on from last game so I think they're okay. I will say it if I pick up on it.
I'll vote TricMagic, what's going on dude? Gonna claim Knight again?
What is it you disagree with me uh… with? About? Over? Words like that which would probably come to me better at not midnight.
There’s some gloating over the last game I could do but my brain hurts so I’ll just say neener-neener and something about throwing shade at me ‘cause I’m voting Jim.
Like I don’t get how you can clear someone from an opening post, but that’s just me. I usually need at least a couple before I can do that.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 12:54:38 am
I want to vote Hector for fundamentally disagreeing with what they're saying, but I don't know if that makes them scum. They haven't done the scumtell I've picked up on from last game so I think they're okay. I will say it if I pick up on it.
I'll vote TricMagic, what's going on dude? Gonna claim Knight again?
What is it you disagree with me uh… with? About? Over? Words like that which would probably come to me better at not midnight.
There’s some gloating over the last game I could do but my brain hurts so I’ll just say neener-neener and something about throwing shade at me ‘cause I’m voting Jim.
Like I don’t get how you can clear someone from an opening post, but that’s just me. I usually need at least a couple before I can do that.
I actually agree with hector on all of this. It's not clear WHAT Toony disagrees about, nor is Toony engaging in any investigating behavior.
@Hector: Why you voting Jim?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 01:02:10 am
That gives people enough time to find their entrance music.
ohai guyz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezrbyf6t9mY)Vector, which player is already giving you a bad feeling?
EuchreJack and Knightwing64. I really don't think this is town!EuchreJack because that version of him is usually more relaxed and engaged.
I also didn't like this sequence of posts, like, at all:Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.+1
If you're scum, continue as you are.What do you mean? I’ve been plenty active. I can’t post at all parts of the day. But I’ll try to post more, if you really think that. Not today though, I’m mad tiredTo me, this seems kinda out of left field. Especially from you, Jack.
The last appeal to abnormal behavior, broken into two posts, is unusual ... Knightwing! Why so nervous? And EJ, why just the +1?There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.
Possibilities include that Lenglon can't perform specific types of lying; or that it's just a conversation piece.Knightwing: I do not believe you are an easy lynch D1 at this point in time, and more importantly I don't think Jack's actions around you are suspicious at this time, even though I do think Jack is mildly suspicious from his earlier behavior. What is your opinion about lying as town? Is it something that town players should never ever do? If so, why? If not, when and why should town players lie?
Lenglon, given that you're voting EJ, why did you make this post?
This reminds me of the first post of scum!Vector in the first game we played together, Revolutions III.
@Vector: Why no questions for me?
ALSO: In answer to...multiple questions from various people about the "+1" to Max, I agreed with Max and supported that comment with a "+1". I'm pretty sure I've done that in other forum games. Max & I working together is also a Hal-Mark of both us being Town, to the point that I'm inclined to townread Max just based upon how we seem to have a meeting of the minds.
Obviously, Vector is Scum because Vector's first post wasn't "I'm too busy to post right now, but I'll post more later" :P
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 21, 2022, 01:07:33 am
ToonyMan - Feels like normally engaged town ToonyMan; doesn't mean he couldn't be scum.
Vector - Feels okay; nothing horribly offensive.
Knightwing64 - Probably town Knightwing64.
Lenglon - Probably Not Evil.
EuchreJack - Need to see a bit more. Leaning town from what I've seen but I expect a bit more energy.
hector13 - Nothing horribly offensive but the reasoning for why hector13 is deciding to leave Lenglon alone for the moment feels off even if I agree with the ultimate conclusion.
Persus13 - Completely inoffensive posts so far; need to see more to get a good read.
4maskwolf - Completely unreadable. Might as well flip a coin and it would probably do better than I could.
Maximum Spin - Feels off this game but this is probably completely irrelevant since there were two recent games where he was scum and he felt perfectly fine in those.
Egan_BW - Hasn't posted yet. Isn't Egan_BW prone to vanishing completely when they're scum?
notquitethere - Feels okay; nothing bothering me at the moment about how he's playing.
TricMagic - Need to see more. Doesn't feel like he's expressed enough TricMagicness in the game so far.
Jim Groovester
Jim
hey what gives
Hmm. 4maskwolf
This could be a targeted vote to get dumb people to jump on a bandwagon. Explain your thought process to me carefully and in detail.
Do I like Knightwing64 trying to be assertive?
Yes I do.
Or I’m a unknown who is playing 6D chess with my enlarged cranium.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Watch out Knighty, if Toony were scum, he'd lull you into not engaging with such statement, then later in Day 1/2 claim your lack of engagement was Proof Positive that you were scum.
Stay alert! ~~ Trust no one! ~~ Keep your laser handy!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is a small portion of usual EuchreJack freneticness.
God, if I had known how many Supernatural games featured cults, I probably would have abstained from this mess. Fuck cults.
Anyone who played/read one of the previous Supernaturals able to explain some of the possible cults we might be facing?
Conversion based scum teams suck and I'm not going to spend any thought thinking about them being a possible scumteam.
Aww nobody chose entrance music :( (blue) meanies.
Lenglon’s probably third-party if their claim about a post-restriction is true, but I have my doubts it is.
There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.
I agree with your conclusion but not the reasoning of how you got there.
As discussed by others town players have good reason to lie on occasion. In the scenario where Lenglon is scum, you take Lenglon having a post restriction at face value, which makes me scratch my head. Couldn't scum Lenglon be lying about having the post restriction? That's no reason at all to conclude third party.
Considering that we already know at least one new mechanic (monster actions) and that Web had a huge number of ideas for a Supernatural game, it may be best to treat this game as a thematically similar game to previous supernaturals that we can’t rely on mechanics from.
I'll uselessly voice my support for this point of view regarding the game. Coming in with a 'this is a webadict game' perspective might be more sensible than 'this is a Supernatural game' perspective.
Hey! Ho!
Oh don't you go
All supernatural (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXbUX_xvb8A)on me
This song is pretty cool but I'm glad the guy who's just awkwardly clapping along at the start stops.
So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!
I thought you didn't vote anybody on Day 1 unless you were super serious about it and after you had spent time contemplating it.
Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.
If you're scum, continue as you are.
So far I find this Knightwing adequate. Not going to vote you out today.
These posts about Knightwing64 bother me. What was it about what Knightwing64 did that triggered you to tell him to shape up? There wasn't that much time between his first set of posts and when you told him to shape up.
EuchreJack and Knightwing64. I really don't think this is town!EuchreJack because that version of him is usually more relaxed and engaged.
Quote
town!EuchreJack
Quote
relaxed
fucking what
Town EuchreJack is not relaxed.
Knightwing: I do not believe you are an easy lynch D1 at this point in time, and more importantly I don't think Jack's actions around you are suspicious at this time, even though I do think Jack is mildly suspicious from his earlier behavior. What is your opinion about lying as town? Is it something that town players should never ever do? If so, why? If not, when and why should town players lie?
Lenglon, given that you're voting EJ, why did you make this post?
I like this part of your post. It's a good question.
. . .
. . .
. . .
Tokusentai
Tokusentai
Tokusentai
I am a Jimp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpKO5nJVqiU&t=6s
I like you too, Toony.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 01:26:59 am
Townies:
Maximum Spin - We usually gel when both town
Knightwing64 - Level of engagement is typical for town Knightwing. Is trying to figure out the game
notquitethere - Charts and analysis
Friendlies:
ToonyMan - If not for Toony's skill, I'd say Town. Under observation
hector13 - Seems townie, maybe I just sympathize due to late night posting
Jim Groovester - BullyScumJim or ChickenShitTownJim? I'm leery of giving too many people green shade, but top of nulls list due to lack of scumtells at this juncture. Got promoted due to ninja'ing my reads list.
Nulls:
Persus13 - I have limited/no experience, so will be relying upon the vets to read
4maskwolf - 4mask have angle, figure it out eventually
Mafia/3P Suspects Day 1:
Vector: I am suspicious as the first post was too aggressive for passive no time Vector, but Vector always suspects me when they're town. So I can wait.
Lenglon: Definitely a Third Party/Mafia, the question is whether friend or foe. Lenglon, please say "I can not recruit the living" to reduce my paranoia.
I personally am suspicious of Lenglon because she's voting me, but carefully backpedaling that vote without accusing anyone else.
I would be LESS suspicious if Lenglon could add a FOS so we know there is actual hunting and not just voting to vote.
Egan_BW: No sly comments and jerky responses? SCUM SCUM SCUM
TricMagic: Too quiet. There was a time that Tric was this quiet, but posted an explanation later and was town. But there was another game where Tric said almost nothing and just killed everyone at night as Mafia.
EuchreJack - Need to see a bit more. Leaning town from what I've seen but I expect a bit more energy.Unfortunately, I'm now a working stiff, super busy, and more mature as a player. I don't have it in me to give you much more than what you've been seeing.
Reminder: TRYHARDERJim is Scum!Jim
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 01:30:11 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 01:33:12 am
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 01:34:29 am
So I've been working on this for a bit but then I got distracted for a couple of hours. The reads are the important part that I actually want to get out there and everything else is whatever. I stayed up until 3:30 last night for literally no reason so I probably need to review the game in a more alert state.@Jim: Is this an organized from town to scum reads list? If so, why is NQT second-to-the-bottom with "Feels okay; nothing bothering me at the moment about how he's playing."
ToonyMan - Feels like normally engaged town ToonyMan; doesn't mean he couldn't be scum.
Vector - Feels okay; nothing horribly offensive.
Knightwing64 - Probably town Knightwing64.
Lenglon - Probably Not Evil.
EuchreJack - Need to see a bit more. Leaning town from what I've seen but I expect a bit more energy.
hector13 - Nothing horribly offensive but the reasoning for why hector13 is deciding to leave Lenglon alone for the moment feels off even if I agree with the ultimate conclusion.
Persus13 - Completely inoffensive posts so far; need to see more to get a good read.
4maskwolf - Completely unreadable. Might as well flip a coin and it would probably do better than I could.
Maximum Spin - Feels off this game but this is probably completely irrelevant since there were two recent games where he was scum and he felt perfectly fine in those.
Egan_BW - Hasn't posted yet. Isn't Egan_BW prone to vanishing completely when they're scum?
notquitethere - Feels okay; nothing bothering me at the moment about how he's playing.
TricMagic - Need to see more. Doesn't feel like he's expressed enough TricMagicness in the game so far.
If not...since I'm now in a game, I can freely scumread the crap out of anyone that refuses to organize their reads list. Certainly players should be shown great deference on the actual organization, but without some attempt to differentiate the town from the scum, I'm going to assume a player is trying to hide something and mislead the other players. I'm a firm believer that the process of organizing the reads list is valuable in assessing other players, and refusing to do the work is refusing to do Townie work.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 01:42:18 am
Jack I can not recruit the living.Thank Webadict for that!
Jack: As far as I know, I can only win if Good wins. I don't see what point there is in demanding that I make any other statements beyond that, since as I see it that statement would have to be a lie for me to be harmful, and if you are assuming that I am violating my prohibition against lying, then what point is there in making me say things?I appreciate your humoring me on this.
At this point, I'm doing the following:
1) If you are telling the truth about not being able to lie without !!repercussions!!, then we're getting some valuable information
2) If you are lying, we're building up a body of evidence for later examination. One lie and it all falls apart.
@Lenglon: Other than myself, whom do you think looks scummy?
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 21, 2022, 01:46:03 am
@Jim: Is this an organized from town to scum reads list?
No.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 01:56:06 am
scummy@Jim: Is this an organized from town to scum reads list?
No.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 21, 2022, 01:57:42 am
If not...since I'm now in a game, I can freely scumread the crap out of anyone that refuses to organize their reads list. Certainly players should be shown great deference on the actual organization, but without some attempt to differentiate the town from the scum, I'm going to assume a player is trying to hide something and mislead the other players. I'm a firm believer that the process of organizing the reads list is valuable in assessing other players, and refusing to do the work is refusing to do Townie work.
Alright, I read this part of your post.
You can vote me for having a disorganized reads list if you want since I can't stop you but disorganized reads list don't make people scum.
scummy@Jim: Is this an organized from town to scum reads list?
No.
k
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 02:09:02 am
@Lenglon: Other than myself, whom do you think looks scummy?Here are my current reads. Everything within is my perception and opinion, and inaccuracies or incorrect factual statements are flaws in my perception or memory, and should be taken as such, rather than as claims about reality, and I invite anyone who notices such a thing to please correct me.
Seems towny:
ToonyMan - I don't have a good reason to trust him but I do. Feels like Town!Shakerag to me. And yes, I know ToonyMan is not Shakerag.
Knightwing64 - Feels very much like town Knightwing to me.
4maskwolf - Strong opening. Am looking forward to seeing what follows.
Vector - few posts but very content-heavy posts. Clearly actively investigating.
Maximum Spin - Very minimalistic posts. Opening single post was information-dense, and questions have been well placed and reasonable. Feels like Town that is hiding something for the good of the town, but is still hiding something.
Jim Groovester - Still don't have a real read what what I do have leans town.
Seems neutral:
notquitethere - Not enough information. Everything posted so far has been theoredical and mostly speculating on the setup instead of the players. I believe this is normal for Day 1 Town!NQT, but it also isn't something I can townread someone off of.
Egan_BW - MIA, but goes MIA often.
TricMagic - not enough content for me to read, but I wouldn't expect a lot of content just yet anyway.
Seems evil:
hector13 - Not enough content for me to read, and I would expected to have something by now.
EuchreJack - Inconsistent reasoning and seems to be GoodHunting instead of EvilHunting.
Persus13 - literally only made two posts, able to be summarized as a generic entry post and "What is Knightwing's meta?". Should have become engaged by now. Hasn't.
My overall opinion: I don't think enough has happened yet for my reads to be very meaningful or accurate.
Post by: hector13 on September 21, 2022, 02:23:35 am
Lenglon had basically admitted to being TP by the time I made the post. It could very well be that Lenglon is lying scum, but I mention in a later post that I can’t prove that, and given the nature of the game (everyone has some sort of night action) I don’t think it’s worth pursuing an elimination based on “well you probably are lying” when she’ll probably (alright, hopefully) be dealt with in the night.
I absolutely don’t like leaving an admitted non-town player alone, but given the above, if she is lying scum, she probably won’t be performing the kill (assuming a team, anyway) because of drawing night actions, and if she is telling the truth about not lying, has said they aren’t evil and are thus not a threat to the town.
It makes sense to me, but I’m very not good at expressing what my gut tells me, especially at 2am.
PPE: Lenglon’s list seems to be variations on “hasn’t posted enough to get a solid read”. I also don’t like the expectations of activity on those reads, less than 24h into D1, when activity is NAI.
Why do people need to claim not-town and make me hugely suspicious of them on D1 *sigh* I’ll probably need to revisit this when I’m awake. Is it just me or does it come across as wanting to be scumread?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 02:34:29 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 02:34:52 am
Hector, I can believe that you might believe you wouldn't anticipate having to lie to win as town. This doesn't feel indicative enough.
Lenglon, you didn't answer my question (unless I missed it). Answer these four questions, yes or no:
Do you have the town wincon?
Do you have a town ally wincon?
Do you have the survivor wincon?
Do you have an anti-town wincon?
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 02:53:43 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 03:00:18 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 03:29:21 am
which sparked alarm bells given you claim not to want to lie...
So allegedly some kind of town ally. Interesting that you refuse to answer my questions yes or no. At this stage I think its 50/50 whether you're telling the truth. I believe you have a new role though, but from what you've said it sounds like some variant of the wererat survivor role.
Jack I can not recruit the living.Can you recruit the dead?
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 04:09:07 am
I don't have any tools to recruit anyone, regardless of them being alive or dead. I made that statement that way because it's what Jack asked me to word-for-word claim for him. If you think it was phrased weirdly, ask him, not me.
And I avoided answering your Yes/No questions because I didn't have examples of those wincons and considered it better to say what it is outright instead of risking a misunderstanding. Are you seriously saying that claiming the entire wincon outright counts as dodging your game of twenty questions? Are you drunk?
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 04:13:00 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 04:14:02 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 04:16:45 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 04:36:26 am
NQT: Your dumb ass is asking what actions I do and do not have. You were literally pressing me to find out if I can convert Neutrals or Evils into helping Good. That is rolefishing. Please stop lying you lazy idiot.So it's not rolefishing when Jack asks if you can convert the living, but it is rolefishing when I ask if you can convert the dead? As I'm sure you're aware, there are multiple scum factions that can raise the dead into their own faction. In fact, I can't think of any factions we've seen before that convert people into a pro-town role. Those kind of roles rarely appear in games precisely because converting scum to town devastates the scum team— why would I think you had that? Also, rising to insult me now, shows your hackles are up.
Your extreme caginess is ringing alarm bells. Just answer me one question, yes or no. No prevaricating, no saying I need to read the thread. That's all coming across as deflection. Do you have an anti-town wincon?
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 04:40:50 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 04:46:28 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 04:49:41 am
> Lenglon claims to only want to tell truth
> I do the only logical move and try to catch them in a lie if they're scum
> Lenglon thinks this is idiocy
Make it make sense.
Vector
Blatant sheeping tends to go down badly on Bay12, while it's the absolute norm elsewhere. I think since your post, EuchreJack has been pretty engaged. Knightwing is a different matter.Vector, which player is already giving you a bad feeling?EuchreJack and Knightwing64. I really don't think this is town!EuchreJack because that version of him is usually more relaxed and engaged.
I also didn't like this sequence of posts, like, at all:Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.+1
If you're scum, continue as you are.
Knightwing , let's imagine you've been given a daykill but you have to use it now. Which player do you take out and why?
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 04:51:29 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 04:56:37 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 05:00:28 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 05:02:10 am
Also, go to bed. It's not my fault you're sleepy and cranky. I'm in a different timezone.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 21, 2022, 05:07:21 am
Probably Jack? I remember sussing him for a good reason earlier, but I forgot exactly what, and I’m in too much of a rush to figure it out again
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 05:27:46 am
But my role interacts with monster-type abilities and has a separate clause that it has a different effect if I target a member of the wolf team, so I’m inclined to take Leng’s claim at face value.Please could you be more specific, I know you're using international standard mafia lingo, but in Supernatural there can be both wolf and non-wolf scum teams. So are you claiming werewolf hunter / do you claim to have any info on the scum team (and if so why didn't you lead with that)? I'm assuming you're talking generically about an anti-town faction. Do you know it's a team (not a Magus)? Does it work on serial killers etc? I would quite like to know if it's werewolves we're facing!
KW
Ugh. It’s 6 AM right now. I hate high school.That's fine, I can't think at that time in the morning either, but when you figure it out let us know.
Probably Jack? I remember sussing him for a good reason earlier, but I forgot exactly what, and I’m in too much of a rush to figure it out again
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 06:04:14 am
Anyone who played/read one of the previous Supernaturals able to explain some of the possible cults we might be facing?Full-blown cults are unlikely given how unpopular they are, but limited one-shot conversion is very likely. See my breakdown of the previous games (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409206#msg8409206). Cults and converters like Dark Magus and Scum Priest have appeared in 6/10 of the previous Supernaturals.
I'm amused that Jim's typical thing for me to do (along with nqt and 4mask) was basically "win".This is gratifying, as when I first started playing mafia I began with a losing streak of about 13 games. Looks like I've well and truly overcome my curse.
Almost finished my big reads list, but it seems a bit premature to give a ranking before Tric and Egan have even posted, so will hold off until the Yanks have time to wake up.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 06:07:52 am
Yeah, I just felt like messing with NQT for some reason. Like I said last game, I'm never the same person twice. I was scum then, but it was still true.So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!
I thought you didn't vote anybody on Day 1 unless you were super serious about it and after you had spent time contemplating it.
Quote
I find this position difficult to understand. You have seen me repeatedly flashread Knightwing, almost always successfully unless I'm scum doing it wrong on purpose, and then you have seen me horribly misfire on Armed Forces Mafia, at which point I decided to stop doing that anymore. So in this case, what I'm saying is that his silly disengaged random-commentary posts, like this literal one-word post of no value whatsoever which looks exactly like his usual scum modus:Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.
If you're scum, continue as you are.So far I find this Knightwing adequate. Not going to vote you out today.
These posts about Knightwing64 bother me. What was it about what Knightwing64 did that triggered you to tell him to shape up? There wasn't that much time between his first set of posts and when you told him to shape up.
Wotwould USUALLY make me scumread him, but I'm giving him a chance to convince me otherwise since apparently he still does that as town sometimes. After I said this, he did start trying harder so I'm setting him aside for now.
EuchreJack, I appreciate you townreading me, but I will never agree with your silly read organizing hangup. I order my lists however I feel like.
Maximum Spin - Very minimalistic posts. Opening single post was information-dense, and questions have been well placed and reasonable. Feels like Town that is hiding something for the good of the town, but is still hiding something.Yeaaaaaaaah, fair. I'm not really "hiding something" so much as "keeping cards close d1", but yeah, I know some stuff I don't know about saying yet.
PPE: Lenglon’s list seems to be variations on “hasn’t posted enough to get a solid read”. I also don’t like the expectations of activity on those reads, less than 24h into D1, when activity is NAI.I mean, activity is absolutely AI for a couple of these players.
Quote
Why do people need to claim not-town and make me hugely suspicious of them on D1 *sigh* I’ll probably need to revisit this when I’m awake. Is it just me or does it come across as wanting to be scumread?I do get that feeling.
I don't really like Lenglon here, but I'm not going to vote because I'm not sure where all the other votes are and I'm definitely not checking right now. But I'll unvote NQT for now.
I would quite like to know if it's werewolves we're facing!I firmly assert that there is, at least, AN evil witch.
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 06:26:00 am
I have a power that implies there's some kind of evil witch.There are a number of possibilities if you're telling the truth:
Cultist have normal town roles as well
- Sometimes there's a Lone Witch, so instead of being a mason, they're a watcherThere's a killer cult (or equivalent) scum team, one of whom has the (lone) witch role in addition to their scum role, which in the past has been a kind of watcher.
[X] Serial Killer: As we've seen an existing roles (werebear, necromancer) be repurposed as a serial killer, I wouldn't be too surprised to see this happen again. Could even have a wererat serial killer.There's a lone witch serial killer.
Magic Brotherhood - 1/11 previous gamesThe scum team is a magic brotherhood or similar.
Magic-themed town roles (Witch, Wizard, Fortune teller). Can mark a hex on one night and then invoke that hex on another to kill. This team has only appeared in the semi-bastard.
- The monster hunter is usually a hunter of a specific monster (vampire or werewolf) and they can inspect players to see if they are that monster (+ they have a kill). In Supernatural 8 there was a Vampire Hunter in a game without any vampires. As such, their inspect would never be positive.There is no witch and your role is misdirection (as in Supernatural 8).
Speculation
What we haven't seen before is a pair of witch masons where one or both start the game as evil. Their role is they have a chat and know for sure that the other is town (until one of them gets converted, that is). I suppose a witch mason team could be the scum team (Web has obviously made some substantial changes to the setup). Be funny if there were three scum, two of whom had a separate chat. Until we see what kind of kills pop up / night action reports, this is part is just speculation.
PPE:
I firmly assert that there is, at least, AN evil witch.Just got to this! Are you certain there's just one of them?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 06:43:55 am
PPE:Nope, hence "at least". I don't even assert that I think there's only one.I firmly assert that there is, at least, AN evil witch.Just got to this! Are you certain there's just one of them?
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 06:49:52 am
Okay but now it seems you're certain there's at least one. In your original post on this you just said the power implied there was an evil witch, i.e. you could be in the situation as in Supernatural 8 with the vampire hunter when there's no vampires... so which is it?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 07:29:18 am
Yes I see, I'm groggy with a cold atm, my mind is not up to scratch today.I am not a witch hunter. It would be pretty weird if there is no evil witch, but not inconceivable. I feel comfortable firmly asserting it, but I wouldn't say I'm certain.
Okay but now it seems you're certain there's at least one. In your original post on this you just said the power implied there was an evil witch, i.e. you could be in the situation as in Supernatural 8 with the vampire hunter when there's no vampires... so which is it?
Perhaps it is you.
Post by: Persus13 on September 21, 2022, 07:39:53 am
EuchreJack:
Pretty sure Meph (and also Web) have talked about conversions being too powerful in the set up in previous games, so these days conversion powers on the scum team tends to be a single use ability. As I recall the Dark Magus in S7 and 10 had a one-shot convert but to counter that there was just one person until they used the convert power. I mainly know this because I was a little too gung-ho on the possibility of the scumteam being able to convert in a previous game.God, if I had known how many Supernatural games featured cults, I probably would have abstained from this mess. Fuck cults.if there's one mafia that converts a vig tonightI think that's plausible.
Anyone who played/read one of the previous Supernaturals able to explain some of the possible cults we might be facing?
I feel its important to clarify that a cult in mechanical terms is different from the mafia team being a cult in flavor. Supernatural has had scumteams that have been a cult mechanically, and a cult flavorwise, but as I recall the vampires and the dark magus are the ones with conversion powers. So when folks are talking about cults, they may be talking about one or the other. When I talk about cults, I'm generally talking about game flavor, not mechanics.
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Especially since you're engaging Jim on not doing enough a few posts later?EuchreJack - Need to see a bit more. Leaning town from what I've seen but I expect a bit more energy.Unfortunately, I'm now a working stiff, super busy, and more mature as a player. I don't have it in me to give you much more than what you've been seeing.
Reminder: TRYHARDERJim is Scum!Jim
Toonyman:
@Persus13:I feel roasted unprovoked. Guess I walked into that?Given that you've played at least 7 out of the 10 regular Supernatural games, what's your favorite moment from those, and what's a mistake you hope not to repeat for this game?I don't really remember. I think there was one where I carried town and we won so I like that one.
*A few minutes later*
I checked, it was Supernatural 7. We went to Day 7 and I was alive for lylo and we won as town taking down the Dark Magus Persus13:Yeah I guess he's the only mafia left, otherwise it'd be game over.
Persus13
As for mistakes I don't wish to repeat, some of them are out of my control, like if there's one mafia that converts a vig tonight I'm just going to be mad because finding one scum is annoyingly hard already with so many players and then the extra kill power would push me beyond upset. I don't think Web would do that, but he'd maybe subvert it in some way. There's a lot of Monster stuff going on here.That game was not my favorite, yeah. I almost always start second-guessing myself when a lynch seems that easy.
If we had listened to Luckyowl on D1 of Supernatural 10 and lynched Web we would have been most likely victorious, but we didn't. So maybe I need to take into account even the most inexperienced player's opinion for success. I can't be too dismissive of things that are actually possible, especially when a lynch is happily going through and nobody but the person being lynched is doing anything. Contentment is probably our demise.
NQT
I get the appeal of trying to figure out the game flavor/mechanics, but isn't it a little early to be doing that since we don't have the start of D2 flavor yet?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 21, 2022, 07:43:26 am
It’s called not being a fucking robot, it’s a game, and I don’t have to be serious 100 percent of the time.
You make posts with no meaning to the game seemingly just for fun even more then I do, Max.
Post by: Persus13 on September 21, 2022, 07:52:23 am
“Silly, one word post’s?”I get being defensive since it seems like Max goes after you a lot, but to be fair he does seems to be trying not as much this game.
It’s called not being a fucking robot, it’s a game, and I don’t have to be serious 100 percent of the time.
You make posts with no meaning to the game seemingly just for fun even more then I do, Max.
Any thoughts on the game besides Max commenting on your one word posts at present?
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 08:10:29 am
I want to vote Hector for fundamentally disagreeing with what they're saying, but I don't know if that makes them scum. They haven't done the scumtell I've picked up on from last game so I think they're okay. I will say it if I pick up on it.No, gonna claim
I'll vote TricMagic, what's going on dude? Gonna claim Knight again?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As for me up to this post. I'm going to put my suspisions on Max/Jack/Toony as the 3p team. Toony is last, Max is first.
Well, not really, but why vote me?
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 08:11:35 am
God, if I had known how many Supernatural games featured cults, I probably would have abstained from this mess. Fuck cults.if there's one mafia that converts a vig tonightI think that's plausible.
Anyone who played/read one of the previous Supernaturals able to explain some of the possible cults we might be facing?
Hey, where is Egan_BW?
Another player that I worry about when they disappear, but not as much as Tric.
... Why in the world are you worried about me all of a sudden? Thats... very odd for townjack.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 08:18:21 am
“Silly, one word post’s?”Try harder to be a robot, then.
It’s called not being a fucking robot, it’s a game, and I don’t have to be serious 100 percent of the time.
You make posts with no meaning to the game seemingly just for fun even more then I do, Max.
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 08:18:44 am
Okay thank you. I still want you launched from the game, but mostly now because you've been unnecessarily rude.
> Lenglon claims to only want to tell truth
> I do the only logical move and try to catch them in a lie if they're scum
> Lenglon thinks this is idiocy
Make it make sense.
Honesty
There, it makes sense now. Them being neutral third party makes sense at least. Remember the Fairy Godfather? While they aren't Good, they aren't Evil either. I'd put them down as a survivor.
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 08:20:00 am
I am not a witch hunter. It would be pretty weird if there is no evil witch, but not inconceivable. I feel comfortable firmly asserting it, but I wouldn't say I'm certain.It certainly is...
Perhaps it is you.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Did I miss an increase in photo memes these days? Not saying there's a problem with it, just noticing a trend.Which ones are you talking about? You mean, like memes with people's avatars?
NQTWhat rationale would there be for holding off on telling everyone the possibility space? I might be dead by D2, and most of the other players aren't going to dig through old games like I did. I'm not trying to figure the whole game out now (impossible) but I am trying to lay out the possibilities so the town can understand evidence as it pours in.
I get the appeal of trying to figure out the game flavor/mechanics, but isn't it a little early to be doing that since we don't have the start of D2 flavor yet?
It’s called not being a fucking robot, it’s a game, and I don’t have to be serious 100 percent of the time.I'm a Knightwingist on this one, it's good to be yourself.
As for me up to this post. I'm going to put my suspisions on Max/Jack/Toony as the 3p team. Toony is last, Max is first.Love it, coming in swinging... but why these three? What are your reasons?
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 08:24:14 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 08:31:09 am
Mostly that max isn't passive D1, he's going after folks, pushing, trying to set up lines of interest, and generally looking to lynch....how would you prefer me to play?
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 08:39:13 am
Post by: Persus13 on September 21, 2022, 08:53:41 am
More just folks posting meme images they made themselves in posts.Did I miss an increase in photo memes these days? Not saying there's a problem with it, just noticing a trend.Which ones are you talking about? You mean, like memes with people's avatars?
Most of your stuff is good, but some of your questions to 4maskwolf seem like making a mountain out of a molehill. But that interaction is still ongoing so I'm not sure how much to read into that yet.NQTWhat rationale would there be for holding off on telling everyone the possibility space? I might be dead by D2, and most of the other players aren't going to dig through old games like I did. I'm not trying to figure the whole game out now (impossible) but I am trying to lay out the possibilities so the town can understand evidence as it pours in.
I get the appeal of trying to figure out the game flavor/mechanics, but isn't it a little early to be doing that since we don't have the start of D2 flavor yet?
I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.How do you know they're mislynches?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 08:57:07 am
@Hector:
I disagree with not believing Lenglon and it's correct that town should sometimes conceal the truth. Webadict has also stated they don't like town claiming early and wish to punish that in games.
@Tric:
Tric, so you're not claiming and your trying to make sense?
Kill'em.
@NQT & Lenglon:
Wow stop bickering. Lenglon explained their situation and is probably being too emotional. NQT is in fact asking questions that have already been answered, but I've also noticed them missing player's posts in this game.
Verdict? Neither are Evil, get over it.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 08:57:35 am
I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.Completely wrong.
Post by: Mamobo on September 21, 2022, 09:11:23 am
------------------------
Jim Groovester - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409137#msg8409137), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409250#msg8409250),
TricMagic - 2 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409166#msg8409166), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409293#msg8409293),
4maskwolf - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409124#msg8409124),
EuchreJack - 1 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409281#msg8409281),
Knightwing64 - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409402#msg8409402),
Maximum Spin - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409456#msg8409456),
notquitethere - 1 - Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409382#msg8409382),
Egan_BW - 0 -
hector13 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 4 - Egan_BW, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409420#msg8409420), Persus13,
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~58 hours remaining).
NOTE: In the event of a tie, the Mafia chooses the execution target.
Post by: webadict on September 21, 2022, 09:12:38 am
But, don't be too hard on it.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 09:16:25 am
Part of me really wants to lynch Tric for being obviously wrong, but obviously wrong is usually town Tric, so I'll hang around for actual scum instead. That said, I wouldn't be against it as a last-ditch choice. It'll stop him from blocking a vig or something. :P
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 09:59:07 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 10:06:12 am
Post by: hector13 on September 21, 2022, 10:19:15 am
I’ve got
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 10:28:23 am
4maskGeneric lingo, wolf as a description for the evil team in general.But my role interacts with monster-type abilities and has a separate clause that it has a different effect if I target a member of the wolf team, so I’m inclined to take Leng’s claim at face value.Please could you be more specific, I know you're using international standard mafia lingo, but in Supernatural there can be both wolf and non-wolf scum teams. So are you claiming werewolf hunter / do you claim to have any info on the scum team (and if so why didn't you lead with that)? I'm assuming you're talking generically about an anti-town faction. Do you know it's a team (not a Magus)? Does it work on serial killers etc? I would quite like to know if it's werewolves we're facing!
KWUgh. It’s 6 AM right now. I hate high school.That's fine, I can't think at that time in the morning either, but when you figure it out let us know.
Probably Jack? I remember sussing him for a good reason earlier, but I forgot exactly what, and I’m in too much of a rush to figure it out again
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 10:47:50 am
Alright enough whining let's get down to brass tacks.
NQT: Expanding on my previous statement, my role doesn't provide any hints as to the nature of the evil player(s), but given that this is a webadict supernatural I'm inclined to believe that it's a unique team we haven't seen before.
Jim: Half meme vote half half-remembered unreliable meta read, re: why I voted you.
Toonyman: For someone who has me as a locked neutral due to respecting my scumplay, I'm surprised you haven't tried too hard to dig to find my alignment.
EuchreJack: *bonk* don't leave players unsolved because of their reputation, if you can't read someone and have reads on everyone else it's time to put pressure on the unknowns.
Also IME Vector is pretty aggressive when they're able to post regardless of how much time they have available.
More to come later I have to get ready for the day :'( :'( :'(
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 10:49:03 am
Perseus: I feel like you aren't fully engaged with scumhunting at the moment. What's your top 3 scum right now and why?
4mask: I think I'm not thinking objectively and want an outside opinion. What is your read of Jack right now? Why?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 10:55:31 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 10:56:25 am
Post by: hector13 on September 21, 2022, 11:20:03 am
@Hector: How did you conclude Lenglon was Third Party? I mean, I certainly have my theory, but how would you explain/paraphrase it?
You asked them to say “I am Good” and they said “I am not Evil”, which is not the same thing, and is basically saying “I am third-party”. That bothers me for a number of reasons I might cover later depending on what else was posted, but remind me if I don’t because it’s semi-important.
And fine, since it seems there's no point in holding this back at this point, I am Neutral. My wincon is identical to the Good wincon, but Evil can win ( and I lose) while I'm still alive. I initially thought I wouldn't be the only Neutral like this, and that I needed to meatshield for our Good players, treating them as VIPs.
Didn’t think I’d make it two posts and have to explain anyway.
People earlier were suggesting Lenglon might be a survivor, which means her presence is bad for town which gets worse the longer the game goes because their goal is to survive, which doesn’t necessarily mean winning with town. Town also can’t use the elimination to get rid of it because survivors aren’t anti-town so it would be a waste, so I hope that town have a night kill they can use to deal with her.
I don’t think it would be outside possibility that a survivor might fakeclaim all of this, but it still presents the problems as above.
Of course, all this doesn’t really matter if she is indeed just lying scum, but why would scum draw so much attention to themselves with such a bold claim as being unable to lie, then basically claim something that is best dealt with in the night in a power heavy game?
*reads ahead*
Then be a dick when someone wants to test their claims in a deduction game.
People who have some idea of Lenglon’s meta: is she prone to getting this bent out of shape as either alignment?
Like… what NQT is doing to deal with Lenglon’s claims is not unreasonable, even if she’s covered it before.
Eurgh. I’ll do more later, people being asshats really removes my motivation for playing the game.
Post by: webadict on September 21, 2022, 11:52:15 am
Also, let's resort to executing each other before name-calling, thank you.
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 11:57:19 am
waaaahhhhhhhh Lenglon didn't fullclaim in her first post on day 1 waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhYeah, no. I'm not putting up with this anymore.
I have said:
Jack: I should not answer that. Good wins if all Evil players are removed from the game, and if at least one Good player is alive. This means there is a limited pool of Good players here, and Evils will want to kill Good players and avoid killing non-Good players. As such, I should not say if I am Good. What I can say and already have said is that I am not Evil.Repeatedly:
Jack: Why are you attempting to learn who is Good and who is not, instead of attempting to learn who is Evil and who is not?
Vector: Because it is more important to me to both investigate Knightwing and help him express himself than it is to attempt to apply pressure on Jack about a topic that he has avoided engaging with and nobody else has called him on despite me pointing it out, which likely means that nobody else finds the argument convincing, and that I should reconsider how strong of evidence it actually is.Why:
Toony: I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are correct, and that it wasn't a concern after all, but I did not know that at the time, and thought that the Good players might only be a sub-faction of town, which would require protection. At the time of Jack's question, they were lacking the same information I was, and so I remain concerned about their questioning, but it is currently only a cause for mild suspicion, as I said to Knightwing earlier.
And fine, since it seems there's no point in holding this back at this point, I am Neutral. My wincon is identical to the Good wincon, but Evil can win ( and I lose) while I'm still alive. I initially thought I wouldn't be the only Neutral like this, and that I needed to meatshield for our Good players, treating them as VIPs.I held back the alignment information.
I have said:
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.Repeatedly:
Jack: I should not answer that. Good wins if all Evil players are removed from the game, and if at least one Good player is alive. This means there is a limited pool of Good players here, and Evils will want to kill Good players and avoid killing non-Good players. As such, I should not say if I am Good. What I can say and already have said is that I am not Evil.That:
NQT / Perseus: my role is not on your list of previous roles. I believe you would consider me either town or town-ally if you had access to my role pm.I:
Jack: As far as I know, I can only win if Good wins. I don't see what point there is in demanding that I make any other statements beyond that, since as I see it that statement would have to be a lie for me to be harmful, and if you are assuming that I am violating my prohibition against lying, then what point is there in making me say things?Only:
NQT: I win when all Evil players are removed from the game, and there is at least one Good player alive. You can decide which of your catagories that is for yourself. Also, I find your questions indicative that you aren't reading the thread.Win:
Your extreme caginess is ringing alarm bells. Just answer me one question, yes or no. No prevaricating, no saying I need to read the thread. That's all coming across as deflection. Do you have an anti-town wincon?
NQT: No I do not you fucking idiot.with town.
Quit it with this "she's a survivor!" business. The entire case is self-contradictory. You're assuming that I might be third-party because I initially claimed to be Not Evil instead of claiming to be Good, and you decided that I must have been doing that to avoid lying. Then when I do explicitly claim exactly what my wincon is you assume that I'm lying about it. It's absurd and I'm having trouble understanding how anyone can seriously be simultaneously holding two contradictory positions. You tell me if you think I'm lying or not. If you think I'm lying then just make your case for why I'm an Evil already. If you don't think I'm lying then quit it with this "survivor" business. I am not a survivor. get over it already.
making me retread the same ground for the 15th time is not productive. stop it.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 12:02:18 pm
Even if it didn't this is webadict supernatural so we couldn't rule it out but the fact that it does helps.
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 12:19:41 pm
4mask, thanks for the clarification
Hector, being a bit aggro is NAI. One big thing in Lenglon's favour is she stuck her neck out unnecessarily. I don't see a setup where a member of a scum team makes her play.
Toony, most of your posting is distant commentary. Where's the beefing? I'm getting too much of a Devil aura from you. Who do you see making a case on by day's end?
Tric, I'm not sure about your reasoning. Max is too active and Jack is too passive? Is this read based on your expectations from other games?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 12:22:36 pm
Hector, being a bit aggro is NAI. One big thing in Lenglon's favour is she stuck her neck out unnecessarily. I don't see a setup where a member of a scum team makes her play.“I never thought third parties would abuse MY trust!” complains man who voted for the Third Parties Betraying Trust Party.
Jokes aside you saying that gave me deja vu to the last suoernatural.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 12:34:08 pm
Toonyman: For someone who has me as a locked neutral due to respecting my scumplay, I'm surprised you haven't tried too hard to dig to find my alignment.I mean, I was going to investigate you or NQT tonight but I could probably be more actively hounding players.
Oops I ruined the surprise.
@NQT:
Toony, most of your posting is distant commentary. Where's the beefing? I'm getting too much of a Devil aura from you. Who do you see making a case on by day's end?I don't really hate anybody but Tric and Hector right now. I like the vote though since Jack has pointed it out too and it's a reasonable vote.
Vector's suspicion of Knightwing/Jack is...weird. Egan hasn't posted. I could argue with Max about something since Egan is still away.
I think Hector's pursuit of Lenglon is some politically correct word for slow in the brain, but I don't know if they hold malicious intent. I'm suspicious of Tric for not drawing attention to themselves, although maybe that's hypocritical.
Lenglon is absolutely correct they've incessantly said they're a town-ally, and I'm baffled players can't read posts and just blindly shout what they want to hear. Maybe because I haven't tunneled on anybody I can see more clearly, food for thought to players reading this.
I would need strong convincing that Jack/Knightwing/Lenglon are Evil and really don't feel like Lenglon should be the focus of discussion while actual Evil avoids scrutiny.
So yeah, the fire is small but I expect it to grow.
@Max:
Who do you think is more suspicious, 4mask or NQT?
What's the deal with Tric? I think they're wrong about everything, but is there a sinisterness to it? I'm currently leaning yes.
Post by: hector13 on September 21, 2022, 12:37:37 pm
Further, I have no interest in really interacting with you because I’ve already said I completely distrust you from a game perspective, and personally you were being*deep breath* deeply unpleasant for no real reason.
From my perspective your slot has been solved, I’m letting people know what I think about it, why I think that, and what I hope to happen as a result of that, as I was reading the thread from my last post.
I would have done more, but I have better things to do with my time than reading you treating people like shit for no reason in an inconsequential game of deduction and manipulation. Like tearing out my fingernails, or staring into the sun, or any number of other more pleasant things.
PPE: whatever more shit to read that I can’t be fucked with right now
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 12:41:23 pm
I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.How do you know they're mislynches?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 12:59:12 pm
Bad Votes:
Jack - not Evil, they've been like a frantic maniac
Knightwing - not Evil, I feel like he's really trying
Lenglon - not Evil, they've claimed something they didn't have to, I know this is a terrible example but 4mask was in-fact third-party on D1 of S10 even if they were lying about exactly what. I think Lenglon is really crying their heart out here though and believe them strongly
Probably Bad Votes:
NQT - I read them town but could be fooling me. I'm more confident NQT is town than 4mask just from their behavior.
4mask - I read them town but they could be fooling me
Jim - I think he's town based on his goofy mannerisms, but it's personal bias and he could still be Evil, would need convincing
Maybe Votes:
Hector - my gut says they're town but I have no strong reasoning
Max - similar to Hector, my instincts say they're town but I have no strong reasoning. I think their progression with Knightwing looks natural so that's townpoints
Persus - have no read, I should probably check that huh
Vector - could be town but need to see more of them
Egan - hasn't posted
TricMagic - their lynchpool of Max/Jack/Toony is bafflingly bad, which I would probably town read, but they're surprisingly rationally wrong case on Max is concerning. I know it's completely off-base but I could actually understand what he was saying.
I think I want to hear more from Persus, Vector, Egan, and Tric. Those four. Step forward and share.
Post by: Persus13 on September 21, 2022, 01:19:19 pm
Perseus: I feel like you aren't fully engaged with scumhunting at the moment. What's your top 3 scum right now and why?I'd shoot Tric, NQT, and 4maskwolf right now.
Tric's comment about mislynches was a bit of a red flag. It can be easily explained away. I've certainly seen town make similar comments, but his lack of response (yet, its only been a few hours) means its still a red flag for now.
NQT's interactions so far have been fine on their own but the combo of his Max, Lenglon, and 4maskwolf interactions have me slightly leery of rolefishing. I'm used to NQT being more focused on the day-game interactions D1, but to be fair that might just be an older meta and new NQT is different.
4maskwolf seems too busy with real world stuff, which I get, but that has the by-product of him being under the radar, and he's probably the person I have the highest opinion of their scum game here.
So a lot of nothing at present. Hector, Toony, and Jim are playing strong so far, so most likely town at this stage. You seem to be the D1 claim/not-claim that wastes people's time on nothing of the game. EuchreJack, Knightwing and Max I don't know super well, so haven't developed a strong read on them yet. Vector and Egan I forgot were in the game.
Vector: Has your read on Jack changed in the last 18 hours or so? You still recovering from COVID?
Egan:What's your take on the game so far?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 01:27:30 pm
1: I require sleep and work.
2: Both of these activities preclude computer or phone time.
3: I've missed 150 posts, which is too many of posts.
Conclusion:
Toony + Lenglon: Explain the gamestate to me or I day-vig you.
Max has been skum too many times recently. He's probably hacking random.org. Sus.
If not him, one of the veterans who haven't played is a good call. Too rusty, can't help town~
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 01:28:14 pm
PPE: You're the last one to show up to play Egan.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 01:38:10 pm
@Persus:
Nice post! I'll have to think about NQT more.
@Egan:
Toony + Lenglon: Explain the gamestate to me or I day-vig you.Woah woah woah, just read the thread. Give yourself some time.
Your vote on Max is very weak after saying that afterall.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 01:40:42 pm
How to catch Evil:
Bad Votes:
Jack - not Evil, they've been like a frantic maniac
Knightwing - not Evil, I feel like he's really trying
Lenglon - not Evil, they've claimed something they didn't have to, I know this is a terrible example but 4mask was in-fact third-party on D1 of S10 even if they were lying about exactly what. I think Lenglon is really crying their heart out here though and believe them strongly
Probably Bad Votes:
NQT - I read them town but could be fooling me. I'm more confident NQT is town than 4mask just from their behavior.
4mask - I read them town but they could be fooling me
Jim - I think he's town based on his goofy mannerisms, but it's personal bias and he could still be Evil, would need convincing
Maybe Votes:
Hector - my gut says they're town but I have no strong reasoning
Max - similar to Hector, my instincts say they're town but I have no strong reasoning. I think their progression with Knightwing looks natural so that's townpoints
Persus - have no read, I should probably check that huh
Vector - could be town but need to see more of them
Egan - hasn't posted
TricMagic - their lynchpool of Max/Jack/Toony is bafflingly bad, which I would probably town read, but they're surprisingly rationally wrong case on Max is concerning. I know it's completely off-base but I could actually understand what he was saying.
I think I want to hear more from Persus, Vector, Egan, and Tric. Those four. Step forward and share.
Good post. Toony town.
Ugh. It’s 6 AM right now. I hate high school.
Probably Jack? I remember sussing him for a good reason earlier, but I forgot exactly what, and I’m in too much of a rush to figure it out again
This is certainly Knightwing and not anyone impersonating him. Lack of anger or depression indicates Knightwing town.
Okay thank you. I still want you launched from the game, but mostly now because you've been unnecessarily rude.
> Lenglon claims to only want to tell truth
> I do the only logical move and try to catch them in a lie if they're scum
> Lenglon thinks this is idiocy
Make it make sense.
Honesty
There, it makes sense now. Them being neutral third party makes sense at least. Remember the Fairy Godfather? While they aren't Good, they aren't Evil either. I'd put them down as a survivor.
Confusing.
Vote Count
------------------------
Jim Groovester - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409137#msg8409137), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409250#msg8409250),
TricMagic - 2 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409166#msg8409166), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409293#msg8409293),
4maskwolf - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409124#msg8409124),
EuchreJack - 1 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409281#msg8409281),
Knightwing64 - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409402#msg8409402),
Maximum Spin - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409456#msg8409456),
notquitethere - 1 - Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409382#msg8409382),
Egan_BW - 0 -
hector13 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 4 - Egan_BW, Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409420#msg8409420), Persus13,
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~58 hours remaining).
NOTE: In the event of a tie, the Mafia chooses the execution target.
Good mamobo, bot gets pets.
*Pets mamobo.
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.
Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.
4mask and Tric: Why Toony?
Lenglon glances around, feeling nervous. She is arguably an outsider here, could even find herself being called a Monster, yet she has at least as strong of a motivation to find and remove the Evils here as anyone else. Her friend is dead, and her new home is threatened. She was beginning to get to live out her dream, and then this murder happened, threatening to take it all away. She glanced around, unsure how to feel about them, and not truly knowing what they're capable of.
Still, there's no way out but forward
"I... I should speak up now, I suppose. I... I might be termed a monster, but I was not involved in the death of my friend. I dislike lying, and if I had to do it, it would have consequences upon me. I hope you all are willing to trust me."
However, despite her attempt to be prompt and up-front she still wasn't the first to speak, instead the first speaker was sudden, bold, and without hesitation, demanding that Toonyman be the first to be sacrifice, and providing no explanation but a simple "Yeet!"
"W-what? Um, Why should we sacrifice Toonyman?"
Post restrictions are certainly a fun time. If you lie, how immediate and dire would the consequences be?
Egan grumbles, their face hidden behind a hood and ritual mask.
"I saw it with my own eyes. webadict was killed by monsters, using a bright ball of light. Maybe that helps."
That gives people enough time to find their entrance music.
ohai guyz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezrbyf6t9mY)Vector, which player is already giving you a bad feeling?
EuchreJack and Knightwing64. I really don't think this is town!EuchreJack because that version of him is usually more relaxed and engaged.
I also didn't like this sequence of posts, like, at all:Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.+1
If you're scum, continue as you are.What do you mean? I’ve been plenty active. I can’t post at all parts of the day. But I’ll try to post more, if you really think that. Not today though, I’m mad tiredTo me, this seems kinda out of left field. Especially from you, Jack.
The last appeal to abnormal behavior, broken into two posts, is unusual ... Knightwing! Why so nervous? And EJ, why just the +1?There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.
Possibilities include that Lenglon can't perform specific types of lying; or that it's just a conversation piece.Knightwing: I do not believe you are an easy lynch D1 at this point in time, and more importantly I don't think Jack's actions around you are suspicious at this time, even though I do think Jack is mildly suspicious from his earlier behavior. What is your opinion about lying as town? Is it something that town players should never ever do? If so, why? If not, when and why should town players lie?
Lenglon, given that you're voting EJ, why did you make this post?
The logic here seems sound enough. EJ + Knightwing could be a somewhat sloppily applied scumchat coordination?
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 01:42:32 pm
Also Toony, if you can see my logic, then you can expand upon it. Or just recognize I make a point, not use it as evidence I'm scum.. Also that vote list is horrible and indecisive till it isn't.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 01:43:19 pm
Woah woah woah, just read the thread. Give yourself some time.
Your vote on Max is very weak after saying that afterall.
What, you gonna tell me how to use my very own vote, big man? I can vote in as informed or uninformed state as I like.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 01:47:53 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 02:10:29 pm
Waves at Egan. You can shoot me I suppose, though you'd find I'm town. Shooting Toony would be nice.Expand what? The part where you say mafia can't hide in the shadows when there's so many players? Or the part where you say Max is setting up a chain of mislynches?
Also Toony, if you can see my logic, then you can expand upon it. Or just recognize I make a point, not use it as evidence I'm scum.. Also that vote list is horrible and indecisive till it isn't.
It's not a convincing vote, is all. Seems counterproductive.Woah woah woah, just read the thread. Give yourself some time.What, you gonna tell me how to use my very own vote, big man? I can vote in as informed or uninformed state as I like.
Your vote on Max is very weak after saying that afterall.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 02:12:53 pm
If you like my reads why do you agree with Vector's point that Jack and KW may be in cahoots?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 02:21:50 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 02:58:35 pm
Waves at Egan. You can shoot me I suppose, though you'd find I'm town. Shooting Toony would be nice.@Tric: I need some more, please answer this:
Also Toony, if you can see my logic, then you can expand upon it. Or just recognize I make a point, not use it as evidence I'm scum.. Also that vote list is horrible and indecisive till it isn't.
I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.How do you know they're mislynches?
Unvote for now.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 03:01:19 pm
Post by: webadict on September 21, 2022, 03:03:08 pm
Mod: Do we know how many Evil players there are?An exact number, no. But there is at least one (1), otherwise the game would've ended.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 03:05:17 pm
...yeah, I think this is town!Egan_BWProbably.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 03:13:22 pm
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Especially since you're engaging Jim on not doing enough a few posts later?EuchreJack - Need to see a bit more. Leaning town from what I've seen but I expect a bit more energy.Unfortunately, I'm now a working stiff, super busy, and more mature as a player. I don't have it in me to give you much more than what you've been seeing.
Reminder: TRYHARDERJim is Scum!Jim
Gladly, this beautiful post from Roguelike Mafia 7 was from Jim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283116#msg8283116), who was mafia.
In my experience, when Jim is town, he instead just acknowledges that some players are unskilled and moves on with his life.
EuchreJack: *bonk* don't leave players unsolved because of their reputation, if you can't read someone and have reads on everyone else it's time to put pressure on the unknowns.@4mask: Hey, we're not all experienced with 13 player games! From my experience on these forums, this is a LOT of people.
Also IME Vector is pretty aggressive when they're able to post regardless of how much time they have available.
I did follow your champs run, to some extent, so you are not completely unknown to me. For example, this style seems normal for you.
Like most games, I'll have to wait for Vector's NEXT post to figure them out. Sigh.
I'm kind of tired, so forgive the lame question, but: "If you were me, what would you be asking you?"
Post by: Persus13 on September 21, 2022, 03:26:10 pm
I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.How do you know they're mislynches?
From my own experience, one of my first games (also a Supernatural actually), Jim as town was convinced I was scum (I wasn't). Course that was also 2013. But thanks for the response and the humorous post!Can you clarify what you mean by this? Especially since you're engaging Jim on not doing enough a few posts later?EuchreJack - Need to see a bit more. Leaning town from what I've seen but I expect a bit more energy.Unfortunately, I'm now a working stiff, super busy, and more mature as a player. I don't have it in me to give you much more than what you've been seeing.
Reminder: TRYHARDERJim is Scum!Jim
Gladly, this beautiful post from Roguelike Mafia 7 was from Jim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283116#msg8283116), who was mafia.
In my experience, when Jim is town, he instead just acknowledges that some players are unskilled and moves on with his life.
What's your read on Jim at this stage of the game?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 03:34:13 pm
I don't really understand your reasoning, but it's a good point that Jim opened pretty goofy in Roguelike 7. Still don't think he's scum here.Gladly, this beautiful post from Roguelike Mafia 7 was from Jim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283116#msg8283116), who was mafia.Can you clarify what you mean by this? Especially since you're engaging Jim on not doing enough a few posts later?EuchreJack - Need to see a bit more. Leaning town from what I've seen but I expect a bit more energy.Unfortunately, I'm now a working stiff, super busy, and more mature as a player. I don't have it in me to give you much more than what you've been seeing.
Reminder: TRYHARDERJim is Scum!Jim
It's kind of funny reading that game because town!Tric townread town!me which I found suspicious but that really wasn't the case.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 03:36:34 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 03:42:03 pm
I actually agree that Jim seems to have a meta trend of being jokey/more relaxed at SoD 1 as a wolf than as town.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 03:44:34 pm
@4mask:
What are your thoughts about Tric? Am I crazy or is he scum?
PPE:
FWIWI mostly disagree, but I know you haven't played any games here recently.
I actually agree that Jim seems to have a meta trend of being jokey/more relaxed at SoD 1 as a wolf than as town.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 03:47:33 pm
Spoiler: Thoughts On Tric (click to show/hide)
I’ve spent so long on MY that most of my reading ability is based on that particular environment, and the way Tric plays is so far outside that mold I have no idea what to do with him. The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 03:50:47 pm
What's your read on Jim at this stage of the game?Probably town, to the point that I don't need to investigate Jim any further at this time. Town!Jim usually makes decent analytical posts every 24 hours or so, which should confirm his alignment in my eyes.
@Toony: Yes, Roguelike Mafia 7 was a great game. It is also a good example of competent-town!Tric
Yes, 4mask missed Jim's Opening to Jade Court (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8373273#msg8373273).FWIWI mostly disagree, but I know you haven't played any games here recently.
I actually agree that Jim seems to have a meta trend of being jokey/more relaxed at SoD 1 as a wolf than as town.
Let's just say Jim evolved into putting more glitz into his town game intros.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 03:54:25 pm
My thoughts on Tric are as follows:"MY"? I thought you were on MUmafia universe? What is "MY"?Spoiler: Thoughts On Tric (click to show/hide)
I’ve spent so long on MY that most of my reading ability is based on that particular environment, and the way Tric plays is so far outside that mold I have no idea what to do with him. The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 03:57:33 pm
The letters are right next to each other leave me alone >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(My thoughts on Tric are as follows:"MY"? I thought you were on MUmafia universe? What is "MY"?Spoiler: Thoughts On Tric (click to show/hide)
I’ve spent so long on MY that most of my reading ability is based on that particular environment, and the way Tric plays is so far outside that mold I have no idea what to do with him. The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 04:01:29 pm
:-XThe letters are right next to each other leave me alone >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(My thoughts on Tric are as follows:"MY"? I thought you were on MUmafia universe? What is "MY"?Spoiler: Thoughts On Tric (click to show/hide)
I’ve spent so long on MY that most of my reading ability is based on that particular environment, and the way Tric plays is so far outside that mold I have no idea what to do with him. The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2022, 04:05:28 pm
Gladly, this beautiful post from Roguelike Mafia 7 was from Jim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283116#msg8283116), who was mafia.
I think this actually makes me feel better about NQT because they literally voted me for the same thing as this game in the bottom of Jack's link there. We could argue that NQT is under the same town mindset as they were in Roguelike 7.
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone or something. Need to rethink things. unvote for now.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 04:09:12 pm
My thoughts on Tric are as follows:It doesn't have to be meta reads.Spoiler: Thoughts On Tric (click to show/hide)
I’ve spent so long on MY that most of my reading ability is based on that particular environment, and the way Tric plays is so far outside that mold I have no idea what to do with him. The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.
What do you think of Tric's play in this game? Just look at his posts and tell me how they make you feel. For example, why do you think he said the same thing as you at game start? Is he a 4mask fan?
Post by: hector13 on September 21, 2022, 04:16:31 pm
KW saying they’d probably shoot Jack if they had a day vig, but it’s early and they’re busy so could be worse; I’m expecting elaboration later.
NQT has been asking questions of many people, easy enough to do as scum but willing to give the benefit of the doubt as poking others into activity is generally good. Promised a reads list after Tric and Egan posted, expecting that later too.
Max answering questions from Jim, being typically cagey of Max Spin, also says a lot on their ability to read KW that ends up in basically saying nothing (would normally scumread KW for doing certain things but isn’t this time because they got it wrong in the last game?) tells off EJ for scumreading Jim over nothing (I agree), also tells me activity is AI for some players in the game, and agrees with a point I made about Lenglon looking like they want to be scumread overnight. Could be buddying me, but I’m not sure if that’s something scum!Max would do, especially as how I had been taking the line that Lenglon is TP and not worth worrying about during the day. I think Max is smarter than that?
*break for baby and food*
NQT and Max have a back and forth about the evil witch. Max seems to flip-flop a bit, initially being confident there’s a greater than zero number of evil witches in the game in post 155, but eventually concludes there might not be any in post 157 after NQT points out though red herring or a vampire hunter role with no vampires in a previous game. Accuses NQT of being the witch, which feels a little bit like throwing shade rather than an actual accusation.
It could be that this is a scum team of Max and NQT deflecting suspicion of a scum team onto, but at this point in the game, that seems very unlikely.
NQT comes out this looking more town to me, Max… is still a difficult read for me, I’m not sure if the flip-flopping means anything, but combined with the cheeky accusation at the end, I think it might be something to keep an eye on.
I feel I’m typing too much.
*previews post*
Yeah probably.
Persus talking about previous games, does make a fair point about EJ poking Jim as trying too much but not doing enough, though. Pokes NQT over theorycrafting without D2 flavour. Kind of a null post, maybe kinda sorta leaning town? Need to see more.
*further distractions*
Eh the rest is Tric being Tric.
Probably just be better doing a reads list or something. This post is a bit pointless but fuck it that’s what happens when the game is made unfun and I have other shit to deal with.
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 04:44:08 pm
Okay, at this point I'm going to vote TricMagic so he'll answer my question.I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.How do you know they're mislynches?From my own experience, one of my first games (also a Supernatural actually), Jim as town was convinced I was scum (I wasn't). Course that was also 2013. But thanks for the response and the humorous post!Can you clarify what you mean by this? Especially since you're engaging Jim on not doing enough a few posts later?EuchreJack - Need to see a bit more. Leaning town from what I've seen but I expect a bit more energy.Unfortunately, I'm now a working stiff, super busy, and more mature as a player. I don't have it in me to give you much more than what you've been seeing.
Reminder: TRYHARDERJim is Scum!Jim
Gladly, this beautiful post from Roguelike Mafia 7 was from Jim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283116#msg8283116), who was mafia.
In my experience, when Jim is town, he instead just acknowledges that some players are unskilled and moves on with his life.
What's your read on Jim at this stage of the game?
What type of question is that persus? How do you know they're not mislynches? Setting up a chain of lynches is what the villains do, don't do that. It's fine if you're hunting scum, but town never seeks to put down suspicions so far in advance. Hence it being a chain of mislynches, it's set up so they can just move to the next target when the old one turns out to be town, just as they would know.
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 04:46:06 pm
My thoughts on Tric are as follows:Fair given the number of posts I've made doesn't break the single digits. Also Yeet, can't forget that.Spoiler: Thoughts On Tric (click to show/hide)
I’ve spent so long on MY that most of my reading ability is based on that particular environment, and the way Tric plays is so far outside that mold I have no idea what to do with him. The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 04:48:37 pm
BUT, the unfun seems to be over, and more data is coming in.
[Veteran Town Player Helpful Hint: Asking questions of other players is a GREAT way to learn more about them. It's easier if you bold their name, so they don't accidentally miss your question. And also make sure it's an actual question, not "Look at me, I'm so smart, I just proved you're scum, die scum die, right?"
It helps to remember that the majority of players are actually on the same team. Talk To Your Teammates]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 05:36:30 pm
NQT and Max have a back and forth about the evil witch. Max seems to flip-flop a bit, initially being confident there’s a greater than zero number of evil witches in the game in post 155, but eventually concludes there might not be any in post 157 after NQT points out though red herring or a vampire hunter role with no vampires in a previous game. Accuses NQT of being the witch, which feels a little bit like throwing shade rather than an actual accusation.Wow, this isn't how I meant that at all. I still think there's a witch. My confidence level in witches hasn't changed a bit. I just acknowledged that I could conceivably be wrong. "I think X, but I might be wrong" isn't flip-flopping.
@Max:Of the two, you.
Who do you think is more suspicious, 4mask or NQT?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 06:00:37 pm
What type of question is that persus? How do you know they're not mislynches? Setting up a chain of lynches is what the villains do, don't do that. It's fine if you're hunting scum, but town never seeks to put down suspicions so far in advance. Hence it being a chain of mislynches, it's set up so they can just move to the next target when the old one turns out to be town, just as they would know.You're throwing the question back at him??
Persus is asking why you called them mislynches in the first place, you're dodging the actual question.
While there is definitely some valuable info, the game state does seem to be a large quantity of unfun with a shortage of substance from several players.I'm having a blast.
:(@Max:Of the two, you.
Who do you think is more suspicious, 4mask or NQT?
I'm really feeling a 4mask/Tric/Vector scum team right now but maybe that's the juices flowing too much.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 06:02:13 pm
I'm really feeling a 4mask/Tric/Vector scum team right now but maybe that's the juices flowing too much.This is partly from being happy with Persus and Egan's responses and not being happy with Tric's.
I'm curious about Vector and 4mask.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 06:06:21 pm
Post by: TricMagic on September 21, 2022, 06:13:10 pm
And I'm not dodging the question. It's a dumb hook to begin with. What' do they think I'm gonna slip and spill everything I know? That's an insult of the highest order, and not good scumhunting besides.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 21, 2022, 06:17:46 pm
Tric isn’t acting like a obviously scummy person right now.
Sus
Post by: Lenglon on September 21, 2022, 06:26:21 pm
Toony + Lenglon: Explain the gamestate to me or I day-vig you.I don't think I'll do that.
Post restrictions are certainly a fun time. If you lie, how immediate and dire would the consequences be?If I lie, and then perform a particular action afterwards, then all of my actions will fail for the rest of the game.
Egan grumbles, their face hidden behind a hood and ritual mask.
"I saw it with my own eyes. webadict was killed by monsters, using a bright ball of light. Maybe that helps."
"Wait, a bright ball of light?"
Lenglon looks over at the Burning Sun, the device brought out for today's sacrifice.
"Was it that ball of light right there?"
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 21, 2022, 06:41:15 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 07:16:06 pm
Of course you wouldn't be happy with it, you're mafia. :-\Why am I happy with Persus and Egan then?
And I'm not dodging the question. It's a dumb hook to begin with. What' do they think I'm gonna slip and spill everything I know?Yes.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 07:19:15 pm
If I lie, and then perform a particular action afterwards, then all of my actions will fail for the rest of the game.What a twisted role for Webadict to give. A third-party that need be honest to have full power. You probably figured that you'd have to come clean to work with town. I can see Web creating such a role after S10.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2022, 07:20:08 pm
Tric isn’t acting like a obviously scummy person right now.What do you mean?
Sus
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 21, 2022, 07:24:54 pm
So I’m saying that lack of overt scummyness is suspicious
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 07:28:04 pm
Then perish.Toony + Lenglon: Explain the gamestate to me or I day-vig you.I don't think I'll do that.
...
...Nah, not really.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 07:51:58 pm
Dude I have no fucking idea I assume he thought it was funny and decided to copy me but I have literally no idea.
Tric is just kinda existing in the thread and apparently according to everyone that should make me nervous so let’s go with that.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 07:55:00 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 07:59:21 pm
Mm. The more I think about this the more I’m convincing myself.
Tric
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 21, 2022, 08:00:28 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 08:05:49 pm
"Wait, a bright ball of light?"
Lenglon looks over at the Burning Sun, the device brought out for today's sacrifice.
"Was it that ball of light right there?"
"...Probably. Perhaps our 'leader' is on their side. Again. Remember the birds?"
They shrug.
"It is not relevant to our task, I think. Purge the Evil first."
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 21, 2022, 08:18:41 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 21, 2022, 08:43:44 pm
Working on a post.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 08:48:18 pm
“I always knew the sun was evil…Wrong Webadict game (I assume this is a joke referring to Kill Webadict Now: Redux)
Post by: Mamobo on September 21, 2022, 09:15:13 pm
------------------------
TricMagic - 3 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409293#msg8409293), Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409602#msg8409602), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731),
Maximum Spin - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409456#msg8409456), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409556#msg8409556),
4maskwolf - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409124#msg8409124),
Egan_BW - 1 - Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409496#msg8409496),
EuchreJack - 1 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409281#msg8409281),
Jim Groovester - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409250#msg8409250),
hector13 - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 4 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409591#msg8409591), Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409420#msg8409420), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409630#msg8409630),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~46 hours remaining).
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 09:42:55 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 21, 2022, 09:44:22 pm
Post by: Persus13 on September 21, 2022, 10:09:43 pm
I'm tired and don't feel like making a post of substance right now, but I am curious if you use dark mode. Because yellow is basically unreadable in light mode.
"Wait, a bright ball of light?"
Lenglon looks over at the Burning Sun, the device brought out for today's sacrifice.
"Was it that ball of light right there?"
"...Probably. Perhaps our 'leader' is on their side. Again. Remember the birds?"
They shrug.
"It is not relevant to our task, I think. Purge the Evil first."
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2022, 10:11:57 pm
also 50ppp is the only good option
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2022, 10:34:51 pm
I wonder what happens if I join Knightwing64 in voting 4maskwolfYou gain my undying love and affection <3
Post by: Vector on September 21, 2022, 11:02:22 pm
In the meantime, I am pretty sure NQT is town and only slightly less sure that Toony is Town. In both cases it's due to significant tells.
I won't comment on the Lenglon situation because I think that, whether lying or telling the truth about her role and alignment, everything that's happened so far is well within her scum range.
I agree with those who find this unusually hat-ambivalent Tric unnerving. I don't want to move my vote until I can properly reread, which I cannot do right now.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 12:04:08 am
I don’t really want a Tric lynch, to be honest. It doesn’t seem that solid tbhInteresting, you were just saying Tric seemed suspicious. Is this because of players like 4mask and Max supporting it?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 12:06:25 am
It's a tempting offer.I wonder what happens if I join Knightwing64 in voting 4maskwolfYou gain my undying love and affection <3
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 22, 2022, 01:05:47 am
fake activity
This strikes a chord with how I feel about NQT engaging with other players in this game. It feels like certain actions are taken more for appearances than for substance.
Knightwing , let's imagine you've been given a daykill but you have to use it now. Which player do you take out and why?
Toony, most of your posting is distant commentary. Where's the beefing? I'm getting too much of a Devil aura from you. Who do you see making a case on by day's end?
I know pressure voting is old school B12 play but they really bother me coming from notquitethere here. Other players casting pressure votes don't bother me as much for whatever reason.
Please could you be more specific, I know you're using international standard mafia lingo, but in Supernatural there can be both wolf and non-wolf scum teams. So are you claiming werewolf hunter / do you claim to have any info on the scum team (and if so why didn't you lead with that)? I'm assuming you're talking generically about an anti-town faction. Do you know it's a team (not a Magus)? Does it work on serial killers etc? I would quite like to know if it's werewolves we're facing!
I think what 4maskwolf meant was clear from context and habit. Asking to clarify this point seems unnecessary. It feels like a 'substantive' engagement that doesn't actually accomplish anything i.e. done to appear as if engaging substantively.
I think this actually makes me feel better about NQT because they literally voted me for the same thing as this game in the bottom of Jack's link there. We could argue that NQT is under the same town mindset as they were in Roguelike 7.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmph this is true.
I don't know what to make of notquitethere.
Jiiiiiiiim I pfp so I am not clipping that quote to show what I’m responding to urgh.
Lenglon had basically admitted to being TP by the time I made the post. It could very well be that Lenglon is lying scum, but I mention in a later post that I can’t prove that, and given the nature of the game (everyone has some sort of night action) I don’t think it’s worth pursuing an elimination based on “well you probably are lying” when she’ll probably (alright, hopefully) be dealt with in the night.
I absolutely don’t like leaving an admitted non-town player alone, but given the above, if she is lying scum, she probably won’t be performing the kill (assuming a team, anyway) because of drawing night actions, and if she is telling the truth about not lying, has said they aren’t evil and are thus not a threat to the town.
It makes sense to me, but I’m very not good at expressing what my gut tells me, especially at 2am.
People earlier were suggesting Lenglon might be a survivor, which means her presence is bad for town which gets worse the longer the game goes because their goal is to survive, which doesn’t necessarily mean winning with town. Town also can’t use the elimination to get rid of it because survivors aren’t anti-town so it would be a waste, so I hope that town have a night kill they can use to deal with her.
From my perspective your slot has been solved, I’m letting people know what I think about it, why I think that, and what I hope to happen as a result of that, as I was reading the thread from my last post.
This bothered me last night but I was probably too out of it to intelligently ask the question. Also now that I'm more alert this still bothers me.
I have a very difficult time understanding that you want to see Lenglon eliminated but are not willing to take any action yourself to make that happen. Hoping for a night kill might as well be complete inaction since there's no guarantee that there's a town aligned night kill or that the player who possesses it will use it on Lenglon. This is a passive approach and passive approaches are ill suited to most playstyles.
If not Lenglon today, then who instead? You're voting me but I don't think you're that serious about it.
Maximum Spin - We usually gel when both town
Like when??????????
I've played, what, every game? with you. When did you and Maximum Spin start gelling?
So in this case, what I'm saying is that his silly disengaged random-commentary posts, like this literal one-word post of no value whatsoever which looks exactly like his usual scum modus:Wotwould USUALLY make me scumread him, but I'm giving him a chance to convince me otherwise since apparently he still does that as town sometimes. After I said this, he did start trying harder so I'm setting him aside for now.
I am satisfied for the time being.
PPE:Nope, hence "at least". I don't even assert that I think there's only one.I firmly assert that there is, at least, AN evil witch.Just got to this! Are you certain there's just one of them?
The only way I would take this seriously is if it was part of your win condition. Otherwise, I'd say you can't draw any conclusions about the setup based on just your role alone.
FWIW
I actually agree that Jim seems to have a meta trend of being jokey/more relaxed at SoD 1 as a wolf than as town.
I'd say this is a pretty observant meta read, but I think I've grown into shitposting pretty hard regardless of alignment.
How do I read this fiery first post?
I guess I read it as town.
Mostly that max isn't passive D1, he's going after folks, pushing, trying to set up lines of interest, and generally looking to lynch. Jack, meanwhile, is way too calm an go with the flow. Could be excused by them having to work, but I'm not buying it. Also going after me is typically an "easy" lynch, or at the very least a role reveal, which I always do when the vote comes down to me.
I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.
I sort of understand your EuchreJack accusation. I don't understand your Maximum Spin accusation. I don't see anything he said prior to these posts that could be construed as setting up chain mislynches. Please enlighten me.
Other players are pinging you for your word choice of mislynches but I don't really give a shit about that.
I don’t really want a Tric lynch, to be honest. It doesn’t seem that solid tbh
My gut wants to agree with this but I can't yet.
hector13 really bothers me. Filing Lenglon into the 'want dead' but also 'don't want to lynch' category doesn't make sense to me. It's taking a passive approach to a player he wants to see eliminated. Being passive is bad.
notquitethere also bothers me but the stuff ToonyMan pointed out that his behavior is similar to Roguelike 7 where he was town probably means my misgivings are unfounded.
I want to read TricMagic as town but his Maximum Spin accusation doesn't make sense even if I try to put TricMagicvision on.
Egan_BW coming in swinging makes me feel like they are town.
Definitely want to hear from EuchreJack about when he acquired this meta insight about him and Maximum Spin, for one, gelling at all, and two, why this means Maximum Spin is town from his perspective.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 01:27:20 am
Vector: I was doing a thread review and realized I'm drawing a blank on you, and upon checking I could only find three posts by you. One early on that had a lot of really solid questions and thoughts behind it, the one you just made here explaining why you've been low-activity (please note that I have zero complaints about your explanation or activity amount in of itself, I'm just giving context), and this one here:
I never saw you follow up on this, could you please do so?Jack and Knightwing's conservation looked very natural and not like scumbuddies, do you think one is scum?
It's pinging me, and this early in the game, that's more than enough. I'm not looking at teams yet. We're less than 24h into D1.
I'll say more after one of the people I tagged replies.
Jim and Toonyman: I currently feel like Jack is the most likely to be scum here, but also think I am not being objective or fair in my evaluation. I would appreciate it if you could explain your reads of Jack in particular so I can compare your reasoning to my own and see if I need to adjust my attitude.
Toony, Perseus, and 4mask: I am having trouble understanding why you want Tric voted out at this time. Tric is generally difficult to empathize with and read, but right now Tric doesn't seem to be behaving scummy to me. could you please summarize your cases or quote Tric's problematic statements so I could take a closer look at them?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 01:35:42 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 01:39:50 am
I'd eat my foot if Jack is Evil.Okay? um, the important part is why tho? I want to compare your reasons to mine, and... I don't think I have anything to compare to from this.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 01:47:40 am
On a reread I kind of agree more with Jim's suspicion of Max, but not Hector.
Tric could maybe be town. I dislike their clamminess and they haven't been crazy enough, but I've gotten town!Tric lynched before by accident.
PPE:
Hi my name is Jack and I'm a goblin marauder that gets +2/+2 with haste. Hey did you know that Good is Green? I think Knightwing shouldn't fully always trust Toony. Here's exactly how I'm feeling right now did you want to know that because I think you should know that. My opinion on players changes all of the time also I'm going to vote this random player now because I feel like it by the way do you like my new sweater it was knitted by my new best friend Max yes I'm officially friends with the guy I've never gotten along with but don't tell him okay it's kind of a oneway relationship and it would be weird if he knew about it maybe I should hit the post button and then make another post right away yes that sounds like a great ideaI'd eat my foot if Jack is Evil.Okay? um, the important part is why tho? I want to compare your reasons to mine, and... I don't think I have anything to compare to from this.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 01:53:28 am
Somehow that explanation of why you are townreading Jack makes sense and I don't know if I hate that or not.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 01:58:19 am
Hi my name is Jack and I'm a goblin marauder that gets +2/+2 with haste. Hey did you know that Good is Green? I think Knightwing shouldn't fully always trust Toony. Here's exactly how I'm feeling right now did you want to know that because I think you should know that. My opinion on players changes all of the time also I'm going to vote this random player now because I feel like it by the way do you like my new sweater it was knitted by my new best friend Max yes I'm officially friends with the guy I've never gotten along with but don't tell him okay it's kind of a oneway relationship and it would be weird if he knew about it maybe I should hit the post button and then make another post right away yes that sounds like a great ideaJack and I get along pretty well, actually. Like in that last Fallacy's Marathon where we were neighbors. I mean, we lost horribly, but we GOT ALONG.
I'm likeable, okay. I know it's hard to believe.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 02:00:50 am
1. Tricmagic isn't claiming. I'm reading D1 of Supernatural 10 for a different meta read but I noticed that Tric immediately claimed (partial) role in that game, Tric is famous for the hat thing in BYOR 15, and according to players with much more robust Tricmagic metas Tric not going full claim mode immediately is wolf indicative. It's also just objectively unusual for him, to my understanding, not to have done any role thing yet, especially in such a typically role-heavy setup. Though it isn't impossible he randed something important and has wisely kept his mouth shut about it.
2. Tric is being really passive thus far this game, which a) is a pretty easy way to try and skate by as mafia and b) is somewhat out of character for Tric, both in my limited experience and from what others are saying.
Although looking through Supernatural 10 I apparently went after Tric with a case that was predicated in part on low activity from Tric and I was just straight up wrong so murr. Now I'm doubting myself again.
Man I was an insufferable asshat in the last Supernatural game huh. Especially to Vector. Sorry Vector.
Also sorry to Tricmagic.
Hi my name is Jack and I'm a goblin marauder that gets +2/+2 with haste. Hey did you know that Good is Green? I think Knightwing shouldn't fully always trust Toony. Here's exactly how I'm feeling right now did you want to know that because I think you should know that. My opinion on players changes all of the time also I'm going to vote this random player now because I feel like it by the way do you like my new sweater it was knitted by my new best friend Max yes I'm officially friends with the guy I've never gotten along with but don't tell him okay it's kind of a oneway relationship and it would be weird if he knew about it maybe I should hit the post button and then make another post right away yes that sounds like a great ideaYou fucking bastard I choked on my drink.
I'm still waiting to see more from NQT to finalize my opinion on them, that's the kind of read I kinda have to sit and think about through most of a day before coming to a conclusion on.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 22, 2022, 02:05:24 am
Jim and Toonyman: I currently feel like Jack is the most likely to be scum here, but also think I am not being objective or fair in my evaluation. I would appreciate it if you could explain your reads of Jack in particular so I can compare your reasoning to my own and see if I need to adjust my attitude.
Let me get back to you when EuchreJack answers my question about his read on Maximum Spin.
Jack and I get along pretty well, actually. Like in that last Fallacy's Marathon where we were neighbors. I mean, we lost horribly, but we GOT ALONG.
I'm likeable, okay. I know it's hard to believe.
But since when have you been gelling?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 22, 2022, 04:31:53 am
I don’t really want a Tric lynch, to be honest. It doesn’t seem that solid tbhInteresting, you were just saying Tric seemed suspicious. Is this because of players like 4mask and Max supporting it?
Yeah.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 07:24:52 am
That's not really a very good reason.I don’t really want a Tric lynch, to be honest. It doesn’t seem that solid tbhInteresting, you were just saying Tric seemed suspicious. Is this because of players like 4mask and Max supporting it?
Yeah.
Post by: Mamobo on September 22, 2022, 08:28:30 am
------------------------
TricMagic - 3 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409293#msg8409293), Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409602#msg8409602), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731),
Maximum Spin - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409456#msg8409456), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409556#msg8409556),
4maskwolf - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409124#msg8409124),
Egan_BW - 1 - Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409496#msg8409496),
EuchreJack - 1 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409281#msg8409281),
Jim Groovester - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409250#msg8409250),
hector13 - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 4 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409591#msg8409591), Jim Groovester, Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409420#msg8409420), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409630#msg8409630),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~35 hours remaining).
Post by: webadict on September 22, 2022, 08:29:15 am
Ignore this vote count, it appears to have suffered a minor stroke.
Post by: webadict on September 22, 2022, 08:39:58 am
Vote Count
------------------------
TricMagic - 3 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409293#msg8409293), Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409602#msg8409602), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731),
4maskwolf - 2 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409124#msg8409124), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409759#msg8409759),
EuchreJack - 1 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409281#msg8409281),
Jim Groovester - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409250#msg8409250),
Maximum Spin - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409456#msg8409456),
Egan_BW - 0 -
hector13 - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 5 - Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409758#msg8409758), Jim Groovester, Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409803#msg8409803), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409420#msg8409420), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409630#msg8409630),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~35 hours remaining).
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 09:18:39 am
I wonder what happens if I join Knightwing64 in voting 4maskwolfA Jack Vote, that's what.
Right now I am kinda existing. Guess what?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 09:23:49 am
Lenglon: It's not so much what Tricmagic is doing as what Tricmagic isn't doing.
1. Tricmagic isn't claiming. I'm reading D1 of Supernatural 10 for a different meta read but I noticed that Tric immediately claimed (partial) role in that game, Tric is famous for the hat thing in BYOR 15, and according to players with much more robust Tricmagic metas Tric not going full claim mode immediately is wolf indicative. It's also just objectively unusual for him, to my understanding, not to have done any role thing yet, especially in such a typically role-heavy setup. Though it isn't impossible he randed something important and has wisely kept his mouth shut about it.
2. Tric is being really passive thus far this game, which a) is a pretty easy way to try and skate by as mafia and b) is somewhat out of character for Tric, both in my limited experience and from what others are saying.
Although looking through Supernatural 10 I apparently went after Tric with a case that was predicated in part on low activity from Tric and I was just straight up wrong so murr. Now I'm doubting myself again.
Man I was an insufferable asshat in the last Supernatural game huh. Especially to Vector. Sorry Vector.
Also sorry to Tricmagic.Hi my name is Jack and I'm a goblin marauder that gets +2/+2 with haste. Hey did you know that Good is Green? I think Knightwing shouldn't fully always trust Toony. Here's exactly how I'm feeling right now did you want to know that because I think you should know that. My opinion on players changes all of the time also I'm going to vote this random player now because I feel like it by the way do you like my new sweater it was knitted by my new best friend Max yes I'm officially friends with the guy I've never gotten along with but don't tell him okay it's kind of a oneway relationship and it would be weird if he knew about it maybe I should hit the post button and then make another post right away yes that sounds like a great ideaYou fucking bastard I choked on my drink.
I'm still waiting to see more from NQT to finalize my opinion on them, that's the kind of read I kinda have to sit and think about through most of a day before coming to a conclusion on.
I'd link toony's post, but it's a bit buried. Do you want me to claim a role that then becomes useless? I still remember the Knight/Werebear game, I'm not dumb enough.. Well, I am dumb enough, but I can learn from mistakes. Right now I don't think this is town-jack or town-max. Toony's a good reference for being town, but then he's also on my scum team read with those two.
I also question your improv skills toony, did you get help from jack? Cause that is a very toon-Jack post. (Town-jack I mean. Which he isn't at the moment as that's the first case of town-jack I've seen all game..)
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2022, 09:28:16 am
You're idiots for forgetting the fact I do best as solo scum. Do you see who my partner is this game? No? Well, think it over again.This might mean something but there are malicious 3rd parties in this setup. Even if you had no partners, you could still be the evil witch (or a devil, demon etc)
I've got a horrible cold which has mostly shot my reading comprehension. I'm going to tie the votes and see what players do.
4maskwolf
1. Tricmagic isn't claiming. I'm reading D1 of Supernatural 10 for a different meta read but I noticed that Tric immediately claimed (partial) role in that game, Tric is famous for the hat thing in BYOR 15, and according to players with much more robust Tricmagic metas Tric not going full claim mode immediately is wolf indicative. It's also just objectively unusual for him, to my understanding, not to have done any role thing yet, especially in such a typically role-heavy setup. Though it isn't impossible he randed something important and has wisely kept his mouth shut about it.I see where this meta read is coming from, but it might be possible that Tric is learning and growing as a player.
2. Tric is being really passive thus far this game, which a) is a pretty easy way to try and skate by as mafia and b) is somewhat out of character for Tric, both in my limited experience and from what others are saying.Accusing people of setting up multi-lynches doesn't seem that passive. Coming in swinging with a three candidates for a scum team is also pretty enemy-building.
I feel like Tric is a typical easy D1 launch (no offence Tric) that often happens with Bay12. That said, Supernatural is a bit of an odd case with this, as 3rd parties are very vulnerable to being picked off early. So... is Tric an SK?
Post by: webadict on September 22, 2022, 09:29:05 am
A Jack Vote, that's what.Do not make Mamobo's life harder than it already is.
This vote will not be counted.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 09:38:32 am
-.-I wonder what happens if I join Knightwing64 in voting 4maskwolfA Jack Vote, that's what.
Right now I am kinda existing. Guess what?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tric, attempting to tell other people what your personal meta is, is not a convincing argument to me, and an OMGUS vote that has no justification is also not convincing to me. If you have a solid reason to vote Jack could you please say what it is?
Tric: is the toony-related post you want to refer back to this one?
I want to vote Hector for fundamentally disagreeing with what they're saying, but I don't know if that makes them scum. They haven't done the scumtell I've picked up on from last game so I think they're okay. I will say it if I pick up on it.No, gonna claim
I'll vote TricMagic, what's going on dude? Gonna claim Knight again?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As for me up to this post. I'm going to put my suspisions on Max/Jack/Toony as the 3p team. Toony is last, Max is first.
Well, not really, but why vote me?
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 09:46:13 am
Also Jack. As stated, mostly going off of meta. This isn't town jack or town max to me. And as max said, they gel together. A Jack/Max/Toony scumteam makes sense in my head, though my read on Toony was a bit weaker when I made it.
In either case, my pick to lynch today is either max or jack. My townreads right now are.. Egan, NQT, Persus. Legnlon I'm reading as third party, but they're not really a threat at the moment. At least I know they're not scum, and those evildoers are the ones we need to lynch.(
Mostly worte this down in third, which given it's a response to you is odd, but eh.)
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 09:46:58 am
I think Tric has been bad but I don't like 4mask suddenly being enlightened and talking like its his own reasons in his Tric case post. I also don't like Max being like "yeah I support this lynch".
I like voting 4mask here because both of my top town reads are voting 4mask even if Knightwing has been sitting on the 4mask vote since game start without explaining anything.
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 09:49:19 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 09:50:56 am
My townreads right now are.. Egan, NQT, Persus. Legnlon I'm reading as third party, but they're not really a threat at the moment. At least I know they're not scum, and those evildoers are the ones we need to lynch.(These are good reads.
I don't agree about Jack still.
How about 4mask?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 09:52:39 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 09:53:01 am
I also don't like Max being like "yeah I support this lynch".Lol, I was just about to post that I support a 4maskwolf lynch too.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 10:03:32 am
I also don't really like voting 4mask here, because of how open they were at the start of the day. I don't see why scum would have been willing to say all of this, with minimal prompting, at the start of the day:
I suppose it’s not impossible that Wuba gave the wolves the knowledge (or possibility) that there were non-wolves with monster-type abilities to prevent exactly this type of free clear.
But my role interacts with monster-type abilities and has a separate clause that it has a different effect if I target a member of the wolf team, so I’m inclined to take Leng’s claim at face value.
Considering that we already know at least one new mechanic (monster actions) and that Web had a huge number of ideas for a Supernatural game, it may be best to treat this game as a thematically similar game to previous supernaturals that we can’t rely on mechanics from.I just do not see scum giving town so much information so quickly, as well as clearing me the way 4mask did. It's not impossible, but it makes it a remote enough possibility that I'm unhappy with a 4mask lynch.
My role, for example, is technically a variant on an existing role on that spreadsheet, which makes sense thematically but the actual utility I provide is completely distinct from the base role.
If I had to pick one of those two to lynch, I'd prefer to lynch Tric, but I don't like the prospect of lynching either of them right now.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 10:14:37 am
I don't particularly think Tric is scum - and I think this:
"Tric is acting like town, therefore scum".is more or less only what Knightwing says - but I do know for a fact that he is up a blind alley, and, well, sometimes there are easier alternatives to persuasion. With 13 players and no strong chance of guessing right, somebody's gotta take the hit, and there are worse reasons.
It also hasn't escaped my notice that the very assertions made in the immediately foregoing post mean that a 4maskwolf lynch will tell me something about Lenglon too.
Post by: hector13 on September 22, 2022, 10:26:54 am
Quote
I have a very difficult time understanding that you want to see Lenglon eliminated but are not willing to take any action yourself to make that happen. Hoping for a night kill might as well be complete inaction since there's no guarantee that there's a town aligned night kill or that the player who possesses it will use it on Lenglon. This is a passive approach and passive approaches are ill suited to most playstyles.
Let’s see if I can articulate this properly after having just been woken up.
I seem to have convinced myself the worst Lenglon can be is survivor, even if Vector seems to think this is within Lenglon’s scum game. I get that it appears passive but it’s the optimal thing to do against a benign third party that can win with town and scum: voting someone out is the town’s weapon against hostile factions, of which survivor is not technically a member, despite possibly being able to win with them. Consequently, I’m loathe to use it on a benign TP that more than likely wouldn’t reveal anything about the scum.
This is a power heavy game, so we might have a town kill available, which ideally would be used on actual members of a hostile faction, but can be used to take out possible threats to town like a survivor that could side with scum later should they game tilt in their favour.
Believe me, if I had even a 1-shot daykill, I would have used it on Lenglon already.
I’m going to re-read the thread and hopefully get a reads list up at some point today.
Post by: Persus13 on September 22, 2022, 10:31:25 am
Considering Knightwing's vote is RVS, Euchre's vote was also a bit random, and NQT's is purely tactical, I'm not happy with a 4mask lynch for these reasons. I find 4maskwolf hard to read, but so is Tric and town 4maskwolf is more useful than town Tric imo. Although I'd rather Knightwing show up and justify his vote or find a new home for it. I need to go back through Euchre's posts and see if there was more reason given for his vote.
What type of question is that persus? How do you know they're not mislynches? Setting up a chain of lynches is what the villains do, don't do that. It's fine if you're hunting scum, but town never seeks to put down suspicions so far in advance. Hence it being a chain of mislynches, it's set up so they can just move to the next target when the old one turns out to be town, just as they would know.
And I'm not dodging the question. It's a dumb hook to begin with. What' do they think I'm gonna slip and spill everything I know? That's an insult of the highest order, and not good scumhunting besides.Calling something mislynches implies knowledge of the flip, which at the moment only bad guys know. Its not always a scumslip but it can be. Plus it gives you a hook to explain your case a bit further. You're playing the indignant card, which is a bit of a null tell frankly. The fact that I had to vote you to get an answer to my off the cuff question is still suspicious, but I'll let you off the hook for now. I do like your chain argument a lot there. Makes a lot of sense, just not sure it applies in this scenario.
Toony, Perseus, and 4mask: I am having trouble understanding why you want Tric voted out at this time. Tric is generally difficult to empathize with and read, but right now Tric doesn't seem to be behaving scummy to me. could you please summarize your cases or quote Tric's problematic statements so I could take a closer look at them?I mainly voted him to actually get him to answer my question. If someone isn't going to answer the easy questions I'd like to vote them out. Now that Tric's actually responded to the question I'm less confident that he's on the scumteam, and have changed my vote to pursue other leads.
Knightwing: You voted 4maskwolf in the first post of the game, how do you feel about your vote on 4maskwolf now?
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 22, 2022, 10:33:47 am
Mostly that max isn't passive D1, he's going after folks, pushing, trying to set up lines of interest, and generally looking to lynch. Jack, meanwhile, is way too calm an go with the flow. Could be excused by them having to work, but I'm not buying it. Also going after me is typically an "easy" lynch, or at the very least a role reveal, which I always do when the vote comes down to me.I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.
I sort of understand your EuchreJack accusation. I don't understand your Maximum Spin accusation. I don't see anything he said prior to these posts that could be construed as setting up chain mislynches. Please enlighten me.
Other players are pinging you for your word choice of mislynches but I don't really give a shit about that.
2. Tric is being really passive thus far this game, which a) is a pretty easy way to try and skate by as mafia and b) is somewhat out of character for Tric, both in my limited experience and from what others are saying.Accusing people of setting up multi-lynches doesn't seem that passive. Coming in swinging with a three candidates for a scum team is also pretty enemy-building.
I feel like Tric is a typical easy D1 launch (no offence Tric) that often happens with Bay12. That said, Supernatural is a bit of an odd case with this, as 3rd parties are very vulnerable to being picked off early. So... is Tric an SK?
This is a good point.
I just do not see scum giving town so much information so quickly, as well as clearing me the way 4mask did. It's not impossible, but it makes it a remote enough possibility that I'm unhappy with a 4mask lynch.
Scum 4maskwolf gave me a lylo breaker in I forget which BYOR. He lost the game because of it, but doing things as scum he could easily not do with no consequence instead is perfectly within his scum meta.
He powerwolfs pretty hard.
Let's go with EuchreJack. I'm not convinced he didn't just entirely make up his gelling read on Maximum Spin so that he could town read him.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 10:42:51 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 10:48:03 am
I think Jack is incredibly readable, but look, if this is something we're just going to have to push past, I'll vote him if you want, okay? At some point you people are going to have to accept that I'll vote for anyone because I am not on a scumteam. :PThis statement seems odd.
Max, what's your read on Jack and why?
Your reaction here seems like you think you are being called scum, but I haven't noticed you being called scum.
And why would being willing to vote anyone that isn't yourself be a towntell? isn't that anti-town?
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 22, 2022, 10:51:59 am
I think Jack is incredibly readable, but look, if this is something we're just going to have to push past, I'll vote him if you want, okay? At some point you people are going to have to accept that I'll vote for anyone because I am not on a scumteam. :P
Do it, then.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 10:56:00 am
Max, what's your read on Jack and why?So far, he is acting like his usual town self, but I'm not asserting that I have a read on him now, I am asserting that he is readable, so I don't see any reason to kill him speculatively when he'll (most likely) become obvious one way or the other eventually.
Quote
Your reaction here seems like you think you are being called scum, but I haven't noticed you being called scum.Tric did, repeatedly. Jim's implying he thinks I might be teamed with Jack as well.
Quote
And why would being willing to vote anyone that isn't yourself be a towntell? isn't that anti-town?Of course it isn't anti-town. A member of a scumteam has at least one other player he would specifically prefer not to lynch if at all possible (especially on d1, certainly!), while town (with no specific confirmations) is willing to be convinced to vote for anyone.
Sure, whatever. EuchreJack.I think Jack is incredibly readable, but look, if this is something we're just going to have to push past, I'll vote him if you want, okay? At some point you people are going to have to accept that I'll vote for anyone because I am not on a scumteam. :P
Do it, then.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 11:02:07 am
Max: You have claimed to have monster abilities like me. I have reason to believe having those is directly related to why I am Neutral. You have claimed to be Good, but unlike me you are capable of lying. Your post that confused me only makes sense to me if I assume you are a Survivor. Max, are you a survivor?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 11:06:36 am
Your post that confused me only makes sense to me if I assume you are a Survivor. Max, are you a survivor?No.
Why on earth does it only make sense if I'm a survivor? I specifically want to find and lynch scum, and I do not know who isn't scum, so anyone is a viable lynch until I am convinced that a player is town. That's my standard baseline as a town player.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 11:12:33 am
Mafia want lynch town.
town want lynch mafia.
survivor want lynch anyone that not self.
Max vote Jack reason lynch anyone not self.
Max no reason Jack scum. Max only vote Jack so Max not voted.
Max play survivor play.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 11:20:43 am
I don't think my reasoning is complex enough to require explaining here, but I'll do so anyway on the principle of leaving no question unanswered:That is... stupid.
Mafia want lynch town.
town want lynch mafia.
survivor want lynch anyone that not self.
Max vote Jack reason lynch anyone not self.
Max no reason Jack scum. Max only vote Jack so Max not voted.
Max play survivor play.
Look, Jack isn't my top pick for a lynch, but certainly, if he flips, I will know things about the other players tomorrow that I did not know today.
I never go into a d1 lynch expecting to lynch scum, because that rarely happens. I go into a d1 lynch hoping to find out who scum are and aren't so the d2 lynch is better informed.
By your argument, I have "played survivor play" d1 in every single game where I wasn't scum, except for the like two times I twigged Knightwing right away.
Frankly, I think you know better than this.
(Here's a hint: Nobody was voting me or even threatening to vote me, so why would I need to vote someone so I'm not voted? I wasn't even being serious about saying it was "something we're just going to have to push past", hence the :P. I just wanted to tease Jim for repeating Tric's line.)
Unvote, by the way.
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 11:25:39 am
To Jim, it was specifically this post. Looking at their posts alone, it doesn't really seem like a chain of mislynches. But something in me still feels it's... Off? Why the confidence in an evil witch?Yeah, I just felt like messing with NQT for some reason. Like I said last game, I'm never the same person twice. I was scum then, but it was still true.So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!
I thought you didn't vote anybody on Day 1 unless you were super serious about it and after you had spent time contemplating it.QuoteI find this position difficult to understand. You have seen me repeatedly flashread Knightwing, almost always successfully unless I'm scum doing it wrong on purpose, and then you have seen me horribly misfire on Armed Forces Mafia, at which point I decided to stop doing that anymore. So in this case, what I'm saying is that his silly disengaged random-commentary posts, like this literal one-word post of no value whatsoever which looks exactly like his usual scum modus:Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.
If you're scum, continue as you are.So far I find this Knightwing adequate. Not going to vote you out today.
These posts about Knightwing64 bother me. What was it about what Knightwing64 did that triggered you to tell him to shape up? There wasn't that much time between his first set of posts and when you told him to shape up.Wotwould USUALLY make me scumread him, but I'm giving him a chance to convince me otherwise since apparently he still does that as town sometimes. After I said this, he did start trying harder so I'm setting him aside for now.
EuchreJack, I appreciate you townreading me, but I will never agree with your silly read organizing hangup. I order my lists however I feel like.Maximum Spin - Very minimalistic posts. Opening single post was information-dense, and questions have been well placed and reasonable. Feels like Town that is hiding something for the good of the town, but is still hiding something.Yeaaaaaaaah, fair. I'm not really "hiding something" so much as "keeping cards close d1", but yeah, I know some stuff I don't know about saying yet.PPE: Lenglon’s list seems to be variations on “hasn’t posted enough to get a solid read”. I also don’t like the expectations of activity on those reads, less than 24h into D1, when activity is NAI.I mean, activity is absolutely AI for a couple of these players.QuoteWhy do people need to claim not-town and make me hugely suspicious of them on D1 *sigh* I’ll probably need to revisit this when I’m awake. Is it just me or does it come across as wanting to be scumread?I do get that feeling.
I don't really like Lenglon here, but I'm not going to vote because I'm not sure where all the other votes are and I'm definitely not checking right now. But I'll unvote NQT for now.I would quite like to know if it's werewolves we're facing!I firmly assert that there is, at least, AN evil witch.
Can't really explain it.. It's just a bad feeling in my gut.
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 11:28:20 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 11:29:20 am
My actions also have monster tags. I'm Good, though I can't be inspected.
I have a power that implies there's some kind of evil witch.
I'm amused that Jim's typical thing for me to do (along with nqt and 4mask) was basically "win".
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 11:30:36 am
Max, are you the evil witch?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 11:32:48 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 11:33:55 am
attempting to follow your logic feels like attempting to give myself a headache here Tric.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 11:35:05 am
Why the confidence in an evil witch?You know, you could have just asked that.
My role says something will specifically happen if an evil witch [my words, not the role's words] does something. It seems like it's supposed to balance the role so I strongly doubt that it's just a red herring.
Teasing Max on day 1 is also something I don't think I've seen before. Usually they're all for just getting to day 2 where there is actual information for them to work off of, this is just flak....
"I'm happy to lynch anyone, I just want to get the day over with"
> "OMG, Max play survivor play!!!!"
"I mean, I'm just playing around, I do actually have preferences"
> "Max doesn't just want to get the day over with, must be scum!!!!!"
Okay, okay, those were two different people, that's not totally fair. But actually, Tric, I really do just want to get to day 2 where there is actual information to work off of, because I am bored out of my mind and there are way too many people going in every fucking direction at once, and I just want to lynch one of maybe six people, for whom I have a definite ordering, in order to simplify day 2.
Er, chaff I mean. The main thing that stands out is that it's very much not like Max. It would be fine if they were trying something different, but being willing to vote anyone, along with not standing on a case against anyone makes it seem their main goal is survival.Christ no. How stupid would that be. Why would I have even brought it up if that were the case. And you're contradicting yourself now, you switched from complaining about the opposite of what Lenglon was complaining about to complaining about the same thing. You and Knightwing have both been way too flexible in what side of your own arguments you take this game. I wish I believed it was a scumtell here, but I think in your case it's clearly townie.
Max, are you the evil witch?
I'm not reading any more posts right now, I'm just mashing post until this goes through, I don't care until later
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 11:36:33 am
Let's go with EuchreJack. I'm not convinced he didn't just entirely make up his gelling read on Maximum Spin so that he could town read him.Let me convince you: Jack is town.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 11:38:14 am
Max being anti-social and uncharismatic isn't anything new.You don't get to comment after you decided to up and go MGTOW on me last time.
...
TMGHOW.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 22, 2022, 11:38:50 am
I think Jack is incredibly readable, but look, if this is something we're just going to have to push past, I'll vote him if you want, okay? At some point you people are going to have to accept that I'll vote for anyone because I am not on a scumteam. :P
Look, Jack isn't my top pick for a lynch, but certainly, if he flips, I will know things about the other players tomorrow that I did not know today.
I never go into a d1 lynch expecting to lynch scum, because that rarely happens. I go into a d1 lynch hoping to find out who scum are and aren't so the d2 lynch is better informed.
By your argument, I have "played survivor play" d1 in every single game where I wasn't scum, except for the like two times I twigged Knightwing right away.
Frankly, I think you know better than this.
If you had said nothing at all about me going after EuchreJack over his gelling read I would have thought nothing of it since that's what I would have expected, since Jack can be Jack sometimes and his weird reads can but don't necessarily imply anything about you.
But you're making me wonder with the way you're inserting yourself into this, which you have done twice now.
But Jim, you brought it up twice!
Yeah but Jack hasn't answered me yet.
(Here's a hint: Nobody was voting me or even threatening to vote me, so why would I need to vote someone so I'm not voted? I wasn't even being serious about saying it was "something we're just going to have to push past", hence the :P. I just wanted to tease Jim for repeating Tric's line.)
hissssssssssssss I was first hissssssssssssssssssssss
Let's go with EuchreJack. I'm not convinced he didn't just entirely make up his gelling read on Maximum Spin so that he could town read him.Let me convince you: Jack is town.
Maybe, but I really want to see how EuchreJack responds to me.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 11:41:20 am
But you're making me wonder with the way you're inserting yourself into this, which you have done twice now.All right, I'm going to level with you.
I'm just really bored and haven't slept since... I don't actually remember when, so I thought it would be funny to pretend to take your comment personally.
Then it kind of got out of hand.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 11:42:24 am
I don't know what that means, but if you mean completely blowing you off in Hat Mafia and doing my own thing that's entirely my fault and not how I should be treating scumbuddies.Max being anti-social and uncharismatic isn't anything new.You don't get to comment after you decided to up and go MGTOW on me last time.
...
TMGHOW.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 11:44:36 am
You don't know Men Going Their Own Way? It was like the precursor of "incels". It doesn't really have anything else to do with anything except the pun. Yeah, that's the game I meant.I don't know what that means, but if you mean completely blowing you off in Hat Mafia and doing my own thing that's entirely my fault and not how I should be treating scumbuddies.Max being anti-social and uncharismatic isn't anything new.You don't get to comment after you decided to up and go MGTOW on me last time.
...
TMGHOW.
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2022, 11:45:06 am
Jim - effortful attempt to engage with the game (probably not a demon?). Some insightful reflections on player style. Good so far.
EuchreJack - takes the same approach I do with Lenglon's claim, but Lenglon doesn't find it suspicious. Joke votes Tric. Bit light weight to begin with but really builds up. I don't get the EJ hate.
Knightwing- I actually like his honest and unflustered responses, and this act of clarity-seeking is very pro-town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409124#msg8409124). Scum!KW begged and blackmailed and squirmed. Not a priority to clear.
Vector - comes in fighting with a read and some actual questions, but haven't seen much of them. Absolutely fair if they're unwell, it's not as serious but I'm struggling through a cold myself.
Lenglon- apparently a town-ally, but also the second coming of Dariush. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149600.msg6118116#msg6118116) Getting a bit aggro is a null tell, I really could have annoyed townally!Lenglon, but it could be performative.
Persus13 - don't like his opening post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409208#msg8409208), very softball. Will he build up? Some pokes at KW, but really not anything good here to go with.
TricMagic - Didn't post for ages and then when he did, immediately became suspected by a third of the game. Has some incoherent takes and isn't being role mad, but also a classic easy launch. I'm in two minds.
Max - Comes straight in with some clarifying info. I missed the part about the possibility of an evil witch. Had a very weak vote on me, and had some weird interactions with KW. I'm not convinced yet.
Hector - also picks up on Lenglon's caginess. But that's it. In first two posts , only engages with the person whose claimed town-ally. Alarm bells. Then pivots to a bandwagon. Good prod on Toony, but not followed up with violence.
Toony- backs Lenglon's claim. Beautiful powerwolf move if they're both on a team, but I'm reaching here. Encourages Tric not to fullclaim, and co-signs my position that town should be prepared to lie, so points for that. But his entire presence in the game is passive commentary. Where's the bite? Playing it very safe. I've said that before about town-Toony though, so hmm.
Egan_BW - Comes in late and doesn't want to do any reading. Maybe null in itself, but hardly done anything substantial since then. I'm giving 50/50 odds that Egan is a demon or similar.
4mask - Interesting claim about scum team composition that he's decided not to elaborate on from the start. Moreover, the same criticism about safe play also apply to 4mask. He's like Toony here: a decent player who I know can fool me, so I have to be more critical. Is he 100% scum? No, I'm not quite there on judging that. But I do want to see how the votes spread out...
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 11:48:53 am
-snip-What.
EuchreJack - takes the same approach I do with Lenglon's claim, but Lenglon doesn't find it suspicious. -snip-
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 22, 2022, 11:59:29 am
Knightwing from the future here, it seems like I’m being suspected by Max and Persus? Being on my phone in class is stressful, so I’m just going to say this.
You’re wrong.
Persus, You said why I voted 4Mask? I don’t remember. But I don’t trust them, and I have a bad feeling about them. But I’m quickly getting suspicious of Max.
Max? I don’t even know why you voted me. But, you have been voting and quickly jumping from votes to votes a lot, case in point, you voted Jack and then got rid of your vote 3 posts later.
Why would you even vote if you were going to give up that fast? That kinda lowers your trustability in my eyes.
Oof, this took longer then I thought. Imma hop off before I get yelled out
Maximum Spin
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 12:01:24 pm
I've provided all the information I have in my role: my role has an effect on monster actions, and an additional effect I'm not fully privy to if I target a member of the scumteam.
Toonyman claiming that I'm claiming that I came up with my read on Tric on my own when I clearly state in every post on the matter that people who know Tric better are saying he's wolf because XYZ, I can see it, so I'm sheeping them is interesting in italics.
NQT in general is more focused on 3P and role hunting than I'm used to even from supernatural games this game I'm not comfortable with it.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 12:06:51 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 12:08:35 pm
Posting from phone and not caught up yet, but wanted to answer this.Jim and Toonyman: I currently feel like Jack is the most likely to be scum here, but also think I am not being objective or fair in my evaluation. I would appreciate it if you could explain your reads of Jack in particular so I can compare your reasoning to my own and see if I need to adjust my attitude.
Let me get back to you when EuchreJack answers my question about his read on Maximum Spin.Jack and I get along pretty well, actually. Like in that last Fallacy's Marathon where we were neighbors. I mean, we lost horribly, but we GOT ALONG.
I'm likeable, okay. I know it's hard to believe.
But since when have you been gelling?
Fallacy's MVM 3 tournament is what I was referring, in which there was No Jim.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.0)
Now Jim can continue.
Also, looks like I got some useful info from voting 4mask, and Knightwing64 changed his vote, so Unvote until I have time to read and analyze everything.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 12:10:18 pm
I find it more particularly odd about Vector because they were scum with the rare mafia!Jack in MVM3 R1. I could maybe give them the benefit of the doubt because they haven't played in awhile.This is also probably my favorite post in this game so far.
On a reread I kind of agree more with Jim's suspicion of Max, but not Hector.
Tric could maybe be town. I dislike their clamminess and they haven't been crazy enough, but I've gotten town!Tric lynched before by accident.
PPE:Hi my name is Jack and I'm a goblin marauder that gets +2/+2 with haste. Hey did you know that Good is Green? I think Knightwing shouldn't fully always trust Toony. Here's exactly how I'm feeling right now did you want to know that because I think you should know that. My opinion on players changes all of the time also I'm going to vote this random player now because I feel like it by the way do you like my new sweater it was knitted by my new best friend Max yes I'm officially friends with the guy I've never gotten along with but don't tell him okay it's kind of a oneway relationship and it would be weird if he knew about it maybe I should hit the post button and then make another post right away yes that sounds like a great ideaI'd eat my foot if Jack is Evil.Okay? um, the important part is why tho? I want to compare your reasons to mine, and... I don't think I have anything to compare to from this.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 12:15:39 pm
Jeez. That’s a lot. I’m just going to skim it.I don't think I ever voted you this game, nor did I ever say I suspected you. I also made it very clear that I didn't think Jack was a worthwhile vote, and only voted him temporarily because Jim told me to. Okay, that sounds weird, but sometimes I'm weird.
Knightwing from the future here, it seems like I’m being suspected by Max and Persus? Being on my phone in class is stressful, so I’m just going to say this.
You’re wrong.
Persus, You said why I voted 4Mask? I don’t remember. But I don’t trust them, and I have a bad feeling about them. But I’m quickly getting suspicious of Max.
Max? I don’t even know why you voted me. But, you have been voting and quickly jumping from votes to votes a lot, case in point, you voted Jack and then got rid of your vote 3 posts later.
Why would you even vote if you were going to give up that fast? That kinda lowers your trustability in my eyes.
Oof, this took longer then I thought. Imma hop off before I get yelled out
Maximum Spin
You're kind of all over the place though, just like Tric. Both of you need to get your heads on straight for this. I understand, because there are a lot of players and everyone's going off on his own tangent, but you still gotta do better than this. Of course, being in class is an excuse for not reading carefully, but... you should probably just be in class and wait until you are done. :P
For example... I've only voted three times that I can remember. NQT, 4mask, EuchreJack. That's high for me, yes, but it's really not that special. The first one was exploratory, the second I was fully willing to follow through on, but then I got it into my head to offer to let Jim decide my vote, and I always keep my word when I say things like that, so when he took me up on it I obliged. Making someone an offer to switch my vote is just this weird thing I do sometimes, you've seen it before more than once. So telling me I'm quickly jumping from vote to vote isn't really showing a lot of awareness.
Toonyman claiming that I'm claiming that I came up with my read on Tric on my own when I clearly state in every post on the matter that people who know Tric better are saying he's wolf because XYZ, I can see it, so I'm sheeping them is interesting in italics.To be fully fair, I'm more than a little suspicious of those reads you're sheeping. Incoherent arguments and the occasional apparent hallucination are much more indicative of town Tric than just going on about his role. He doesn't always go on about his role, sometimes he goes on about how his role is so cool that he has to keep it a cool role secret, like here.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 22, 2022, 12:18:54 pm
Posting from phone and not caught up yet, but wanted to answer this.
Fallacy's MVM 3 tournament is what I was referring, in which there was No Jim.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.0)
Now Jim can continue.
Also, looks like I got some useful info from voting 4mask, and Knightwing64 changed his vote, so Unvote until I have time to read and analyze everything.
Okay.
. . .
Why are you so calm? You're supposed to freak out and call me scum and invent universes and scumteams where I'm scum unjustly persecuting you. This calm, measured response is almost exactly what I would not expect from you.
Post by: Persus13 on September 22, 2022, 12:20:12 pm
Jeez. That’s a lot. I’m just going to skim it.There's more than 24 hours before day end, you have plenty of time.
Knightwing from the future here, it seems like I’m being suspected by Max and Persus? Being on my phone in class is stressful, so I’m just going to say this.
You’re wrong.
Persus, You said why I voted 4Mask? I don’t remember. But I don’t trust them, and I have a bad feeling about them. But I’m quickly getting suspicious of Max.
Max? I don’t even know why you voted me. But, you have been voting and quickly jumping from votes to votes a lot, case in point, you voted Jack and then got rid of your vote 3 posts later.
Why would you even vote if you were going to give up that fast? That kinda lowers your trustability in my eyes.
Oof, this took longer then I thought. Imma hop off before I get yelled out
Maximum Spin
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2022, 12:23:26 pm
I wrote most of the reads yesterday, and was waiting on the stragglers before updating, so that was an holdover. We don't need to relitigate this.-snip-What.
EuchreJack - takes the same approach I do with Lenglon's claim, but Lenglon doesn't find it suspicious. -snip-
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 12:26:37 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 12:27:05 pm
Your top town read of Jim is...shocking.
@Knightwing:
I think you could be right about 4mask or Max.
I guess I can't really see Tric as scum with other players.
Hrrrm Vector where art thou? Is Knightwing getting us off their partner Tric now?
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 12:29:45 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 12:31:58 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 12:32:22 pm
Somehow the moment a real wagon was forming on me everyone found somewhere else to be.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 22, 2022, 12:35:32 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 22, 2022, 12:36:37 pm
I need sleep
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 12:37:17 pm
Did I? I don’t remember. Oof.Go slep fren.
I need sleep
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 12:38:18 pm
Cowards.Huff puff I'm a big bad wolf
Somehow the moment a real wagon was forming on me everyone found somewhere else to be.
Ooo, my bad. I meant Jack, not Max.Why do so many players dislike Jack??
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2022, 12:38:41 pm
Usually I would do it in one sitting. My own fault, I should have just posted them then:
Almost finished my big reads list, but it seems a bit premature to give a ranking before Tric and Egan have even posted, so will hold off until the Yanks have time to wake up.
By the time I updated with Egan and Tric, half the rest of the opinions were a bit outdated. I'm not going to perform archaeology on my own read list, I'll just post more up to date thoughts by the EOD.
---
Toony, what's wrong with Jim?
Post by: webadict on September 22, 2022, 12:38:57 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 12:39:33 pm
Damn right, I'll blow your house down.Cowards.Huff puff I'm a big bad wolf
Somehow the moment a real wagon was forming on me everyone found somewhere else to be.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 12:46:40 pm
Nothing! I thought you would be more critical of Jim but I guess not.
@4mask:
*rolls sleeves up*
Okay fine tough guy. Since VHector will show up when they show up I'm calling you out. 4mask is the best vote of the day. They're active lurking and eagerly voted Tric while first having no thought on them, but then having a bunch of reasons. I think NQT is agreeable and I trust Knightwing and Jack, go die wolfboy.
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 12:50:26 pm
Not much else to say, I guess voting 4mask isn't passive, but you're really not proving you're not evil to me.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 12:54:17 pm
Post by: Mamobo on September 22, 2022, 01:42:42 pm
------------------------
4maskwolf - 2 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409947#msg8409947), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048),
EuchreJack - 2 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409281#msg8409281), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409977#msg8409977),
Jim Groovester - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409250#msg8409250),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409975#msg8409975),
Maximum Spin - 1 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410051#msg8410051),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731),
Egan_BW - 0 -
hector13 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 4 - Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409758#msg8409758), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410019#msg8410019), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409803#msg8409803), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409992#msg8409992),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~30 hours remaining).
NOTE: In the event of a tie, the Mafia chooses the execution target.
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2022, 01:51:32 pm
Egan, I don't think I know anything about you this game. Tric is voting Toony who is voting 4mask who is voting Tric.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F6123412peuw41.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D7c367fda17fa11b941c42e9cd7eaefa6564c75df&f=1&nofb=1)
Whose the good, the bad and the ugly in this showdown?
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2022, 01:52:05 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 01:54:51 pm
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2022, 01:58:58 pm
NQT: you complained about the distribution being flat, and then moved your vote to flatten it further within the same post. This seems self-contradictory.Yes, as I said we've got 30 hours. I've played full games of mafia in a shorter period. Rest assured I won't be flattening at EOD, and I won't tolerate any flatteners at that point. We're at the mid-point though, so now is fine to widen the pool.
Post by: hector13 on September 22, 2022, 01:59:31 pm
Lenglon is TP.
Knightwing feels like town KW, panicking a bit when attention turns to them and insisting they’re town. Making some moves here and there, hopefully developing their game a bit. Could be getting coached, but he was town in NQT’s game and was acting similar so… benefit of the doubt given.
EuchreJack is… probably town? I mean, town!EJ usually goes through phases of rampant paranoia which I haven’t seen, particularly when people pressure him, but he’s making an effort even if that effort is a little bit weird at times (voting 4mask to see what happens, townreading Max as he agrees with Max) but it feels like he’s hitting the right notes for the most part. I find it hard to believe the change in mentality could be solely down to being coached in scumchat, particularly with the frequency of his posts, but I’ll keep that in my back pocket for the time being, just in case.
NQT started out with some analysis of previous games, which is a good way to look active without actually doing anything, but followed it up with pokes and prods of other players. Said he’d wait for stragglers to post a reads list, has done so but I haven’t read it in detail yet. Town-lean.
Toony has been engaging with everyone as far as I can tell, driving the game forward. He’s perfectly capable of doing this as scum, but I’m happy to say he’s town at this point. Will keep tabs.
Jim posts one big post a day, which is fine, seems to be poking at people and issues they have. Had a lot of trouble with my conclusions re:Lenglon, but I think I may have a stronger opinion on benign/neutral third-parties and how to deal with them than most people, so… probably not something to worry about? Another one capable of seeming town when scum. I’m less sure about him than Toony, and I seem to be wavering on him based on other reads, mostly Max.
Persus13 hasn’t done a whole lot, poked at NQT a bit, did point out that Tric really shouldn’t know Max is setting up mislynches, though I don’t know how much experience Persus has with Tric’s particular brand of madness. Did offer reads in multiple players when prompted though, and asked questions of those they weren’t sure about as a consequence.
Vector is ill, can’t really fault a lack of action as when I had Covid it was faaaaackin’ bruuuutal even after getting over the initial infection, so hopefully they recover soon.
Tric is being sufficiently unpredictable that I go back and forth on being sure he’s town and then sure he’s scum. I think I may need to see clips from other people to truly get a read on him if he isn’t flipped first.
Egan_BW was not present for the longest time, and I have seen them completely disappear of the map as scum. Explicitly said they weren’t going to engage with the game pre-entrance, though subsequently appeared to. Did say pre-game they were going to play to tilt people, has cooled on their initial energy since arriving.
4mask is 4mask!4mask. He didn’t start the game with his usual scattershot voting, but he’s being playful, if not particularly forthright in pushing people, and is using other people’s reads on Tric to scumread Tric, which I don’t like. Something to keep an eye on.
Max is being typically cagey and weird for Max, which is normally difficult for me to get a read on, but he seems to be getting a little opportunistic with the voting maybe? Said he would vote people based on whether he didn’t know much about them, whether or not they would be productive, and whether or not they basically weren’t him. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Max make so many votes in an entire game, never mind D1. I think he’s mostly interacting with people based on what people are saying about him, or when someone asks him a question, which makes me feel like he isn’t particularly interested in moving the game forward.
A sensible choice for the scumteam might be Max/4mask/Egan, suitably distanced from one another doing their own thing, but none particularly pushing the game forward for town. Weak reads on 4mask and Egan though, fwiw. Mostly PoE on their part.
The mad team would be Max/EJ/Jim, given Max and I were a recent scum team and he intimated doing weird WIFOM-y shit on D1 to make his team seem unlikely candidates together, was something he liked to do. Max and EJ have linked themselves with the gelling thing, and Max, normally not very promiscuous with his vote, asked Jim to choose who he should vote for. It’s an interesting combination of sheeping and distancing that could be coordinated, but probably isn’t and I’m mostly just worried about Max.
PPE: a million posts that I am not reading before posting this. I have a migraine brewing and a possibly unpleasant afternoon besides.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 02:03:13 pm
I'm the good. Tric is the ugly. 4mask is the bad.
Who's gonna shoot first?
@Hector:
Nice post!
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 02:24:28 pm
Very flat distribution. This won't ever catch scum, but we still have 30 hours to go.
Egan, I don't think I know anything about you this game. Tric is voting Toony who is voting 4mask who is voting Tric.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F6123412peuw41.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D7c367fda17fa11b941c42e9cd7eaefa6564c75df&f=1&nofb=1)
Whose the good, the bad and the ugly in this showdown?
4Mask is Evil, Tric is confused, and Toony is clever smooth badass. I might be biased by his avatar and chad play in my own game though.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 02:30:07 pm
Unrelatedly it's kinda stupid that I can get townread by half the players by showing up and being rude. I guess it's consistent enough?
I've not gone a certain run of games being town and my run of scum before that was all pretty nonstandard stuff so I dunno what my play as Evil would be here either.
Post by: Vector on September 22, 2022, 02:34:59 pm
I never saw you follow up on this, could you please do so?Jack and Knightwing's conservation looked very natural and not like scumbuddies, do you think one is scum?
It's pinging me, and this early in the game, that's more than enough. I'm not looking at teams yet. We're less than 24h into D1.
I'll say more after one of the people I tagged replies.
I'm still committed to not looking at teams this early. That's just not my playstyle.
As far as that interaction goes, Knightwing's style of quick followup post often means that scum is getting worried about something that has just happened. I thought this was interesting because EJ's post was a simple +1. In terms of exerting pressure, in other words, very little.
I also really didn't want D1 to devolve into a slog argument about meta on your alignment, just because a D1 in which few people receive the focus is usually the start of a game that goes badly for Town. So I needed us to notice something else. However, nothing really interesting happened from that Something Else, outside of getting a variety of commentary on record. It might be useful later but I don't feel I can make hay with it now.
I don't really like voting Tric here because I'm not convinced Tric is scum. It seems like some of the arguments presented boil town to "Tric is acting like town, therefore scum". I would prefer to vote someone for acting like scum, voting someone for acting like town is basically setting up for a catch-22 lynch em no matter what kind of situation.
Tric's number one scumtell is that you can actually understand his posts and they seem to be logically leading somewhere. His towntell is that he gets overly excited about his power role and will murder whoever he has to in order to become stronger. These meta behaviors are very strong in his case and have been borne out through multiple games.
As such, lynching him because he's acting scummy and annoying usually means lynching town. If you are thinking: "you know, Tric has a point," he's usually scum.
You're idiots for forgetting the fact I do best as solo scum. Do you see who my partner is this game? No? Well, think it over again.
Thank you for this helpful comment, TricMagic.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 02:38:42 pm
Toony
Knightwing
Lenglon (technically neutral at best, but eh. wants Evil dead)
Aura feels confused-Good:
Euchre
Tric
Egan
Vector
Aura feels Evil:
Max
4Mask
Ask Again Later:
hector13
Jim Groovester
notquitethere
Persus13
Post by: Vector on September 22, 2022, 02:42:34 pm
I find it more particularly odd about Vector because they were scum with the rare mafia!Jack in MVM3 R1. I could maybe give them the benefit of the doubt because they haven't played in awhile.
I think that town!EuchreJack can be paranoid, but scum!EuchreJack has, uh ... performance anxiety and tends to be a lot quieter. He's also a chainsaw defender type (unlike you, busser extraordinaire).
Assuming that I'm scum if I'm wrong about your pet is a habit that both you and Webadict have picked up in the past years. How much do you want to commit to EuchreJack on Day 1?
I seem to have convinced myself the worst Lenglon can be is survivor, even if Vector seems to think this is within Lenglon’s scum game.
I want to be clear that what I meant is that I think Lenglon is very capable of inventing a post restriction in order to create an appearance of credibility. I think that the present Lenglon is acting in a town-sided way and agree that she was claiming Third Party.
Hrrrm Vector where art thou? Is Knightwing getting us off their partner Tric now?
No, I don't think that Tric/Knight is w/w.
I also believe that Max is acting as his scumself. I think I'd characterize it as being ornery. Sure he's usually antisocial but there's a certain kind of antisocial here.
How bout u vote then
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 02:42:57 pm
The only thing that comes to mind is either a) you're wolfing or b) you're a guardian angel.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 02:45:54 pm
I also believe that Max is acting as his scumself. I think I'd characterize it as being ornery. Sure he's usually antisocial but there's a certain kind of antisocial here.
How bout u vote then
I predicted someone would say this. Sadly I don't have a trap card ready...
Anyways, I made that post before getting fully caught up and I'm still puzzling though the shape of the thread. I'd rather not fire off votes without knowing the situation to an internally satisfying degree. Which is hard to come by on D1 for me, too many damn posts.
Post by: Vector on September 22, 2022, 02:51:28 pm
@4mask:
*rolls sleeves up*
Okay fine tough guy. Since VHector will show up when they show up I'm calling you out. 4mask is the best vote of the day. They're active lurking and eagerly voted Tric while first having no thought on them, but then having a bunch of reasons. I think NQT is agreeable and I trust Knightwing and Jack, go die wolfboy.
Tric why on earth are you so weirdly protective of me.
The only thing that comes to mind is either a) you're wolfing or b) you're a guardian angel.
4mask, what do you have to say about Toony's attack on you?
Persus13, what do you think of the day's events so far? In particular, what are your reads?
I'd rather not fire off votes without knowing the situation to an internally satisfying degree. Which is hard to come by on D1 for me, too many damn posts.
Creating a voting record won't harm you.
Take your time and make a case. If you're town and you think you know someone is scum then it's time to try and get them killed. Take a stand!
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 03:06:28 pm
Well, Maximum Spin.
Post by: Mamobo on September 22, 2022, 03:12:17 pm
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 3 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410089#msg8410089), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410127#msg8410127),
4maskwolf - 2 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410122#msg8410122),
Egan_BW - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410082#msg8410082),
EuchreJack - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409977#msg8409977),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409975#msg8409975),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410051#msg8410051),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731),
hector13 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 3 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410019#msg8410019), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409803#msg8409803), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409992#msg8409992),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (~28 hours remaining).
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 03:14:01 pm
Tric why on earth are you so weirdly protective of me.C: You haven't yet proven you're scummy. Not a bad thing or a good thing, but I'd rather go after people I suspect.
The only thing that comes to mind is either a) you're wolfing or b) you're a guardian angel.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 04:05:10 pm
That Toonyman clearly hasn't seen me in so long he's forgotten how I play D1.@4mask:
*rolls sleeves up*
Okay fine tough guy. Since VHector will show up when they show up I'm calling you out. 4mask is the best vote of the day. They're active lurking and eagerly voted Tric while first having no thought on them, but then having a bunch of reasons. I think NQT is agreeable and I trust Knightwing and Jack, go die wolfboy.Tric why on earth are you so weirdly protective of me.
The only thing that comes to mind is either a) you're wolfing or b) you're a guardian angel.
4mask, what do you have to say about Toony's attack on you?
Persus13, what do you think of the day's events so far? In particular, what are your reads?I'd rather not fire off votes without knowing the situation to an internally satisfying degree. Which is hard to come by on D1 for me, too many damn posts.
Creating a voting record won't harm you.
Take your time and make a case. If you're town and you think you know someone is scum then it's time to try and get them killed. Take a stand!
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 04:30:19 pm
But beyond that, you've mirrored my posts at least twice. Just in general you seem to behave weirdly around my slot and it's bugging me.Tric why on earth are you so weirdly protective of me.C: You haven't yet proven you're scummy. Not a bad thing or a good thing, but I'd rather go after people I suspect.
The only thing that comes to mind is either a) you're wolfing or b) you're a guardian angel.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 04:31:03 pm
I literally put my entire thought process in the thread for everyone to see as I slowly came to my conclusions.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 22, 2022, 06:08:19 pm
Wouldn’t that make me extremely predictable?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 06:19:21 pm
Hm.Que?
Wouldn’t that make me extremely predictable?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 06:53:51 pm
It had three goals:
1) See how 4mask would respond to the second vote.
2) See how Knightwing64 would respond to someone joining his vote.
3) See how everyone else would respond to my second vote of 4mask.
I think it exceeded my wildest expectations.
1) 4mask looked a bit before, and especially after, like 4head: his town champs self. Granted, I've never seen wolf!4maskwolf, but looks town.
2) Knightwing64 got scared and stopped voting 4mask. Town Knightwing doesn't like to commit, Mafia Knight wants blood.
3) Several players jumped on the 4mask bandwagon. Why?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 06:57:40 pm
I'm choosing to see this as a complement.Posting from phone and not caught up yet, but wanted to answer this.
Fallacy's MVM 3 tournament is what I was referring, in which there was No Jim.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178730.0)
Now Jim can continue.
Also, looks like I got some useful info from voting 4mask, and Knightwing64 changed his vote, so Unvote until I have time to read and analyze everything.
Okay.
. . .
Why are you so calm? You're supposed to freak out and call me scum and invent universes and scumteams where I'm scum unjustly persecuting you. This calm, measured response is almost exactly what I would not expect from you.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 07:00:02 pm
3) Several players jumped on the 4mask bandwagon. Why?
Me sheep hat chad. pfp
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 22, 2022, 07:00:43 pm
Hm.Que?
Wouldn’t that make me extremely predictable?
I meant you, not me. lol
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 07:02:20 pm
Hm.Que?
Wouldn’t that make me extremely predictable?
I meant you, not me. lol
Ah. Yes. It seems that 4mask doesn't follow the townstrat of lying 150% of the time.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 07:03:03 pm
(Some interesting vote-shift stuff to report on, but will save it to EOD to avoid prejudicing results.)
Maybe you'd better share it now.
I wrote most of the reads yesterday, and was waiting on the stragglers before updating, so that was an holdover. We don't need to relitigate this.-snip-What.
EuchreJack - takes the same approach I do with Lenglon's claim, but Lenglon doesn't find it suspicious. -snip-
You have a bad habit of reusing outdated material.
At least so far, you've relitigated the Lenglon issue after it was already resolved, and reused a reads list that was old.
Very flat distribution. This won't ever catch scum, but we still have 30 hours to go.And you've developed the habit of trying to pull the strings.
Egan, I don't think I know anything about you this game. Tric is voting Toony who is voting 4mask who is voting Tric.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F6123412peuw41.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D7c367fda17fa11b941c42e9cd7eaefa6564c75df&f=1&nofb=1)
Whose the good, the bad and the ugly in this showdown?
This is how you fill out your vote: NQT
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 07:12:19 pm
Sadly, don't really see it right now. Any comments on me EuchreJack?
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 07:20:12 pm
It's shifting hard and fast enough that I'm about to bandwagon NQT, when only a few hours ago Jack was my preferred lynch.
NQT: the argument that sold me on voting you is one of fake activity. I admit to just being a follower on it, but I figured I should also say what part of the argument was convincing to me.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 07:22:42 pm
Jacks making point, no NQT charts.You're town. Stop wasting my time.
Sadly, don't really see it right now. Any comments on me EuchreJack?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 07:39:57 pm
NQT has been one of the players I trust least so far this game, and the one whose flip I most want to see. I think he could absolutely be scum, and, if I'm wrong, I think it would be informative to find out. I didn't want to move my vote off him before, but nobody was going for it then. :(
I feel like voting again will probably backfire again somehow, but I also want to win, which means I want to lynch scum, and I think this is the right way to do it, so. notquitethere.
Egan, I don't think your idea about how I play as scum is remotely accurate. Please tell me how any of it applies to the last game in which I was scum playing normally (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245).
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 07:43:46 pm
Daaaaaaaaaaaamn Jack with the serious face.Jacks making point, no NQT charts.You're town. Stop wasting my time.
Sadly, don't really see it right now. Any comments on me EuchreJack?
I kind of like NQT though, especially after reading the part of Roguelike 7 that you linked.
PPE:
I feel like voting again will probably backfire again somehow, but I also want to win, which means I want to lynch scum, and I think this is the right way to do it, so. notquitethere.Woah woah wooooooooah
The explosive and dramatic wagons between players is something I feel like I haven't seen in awhile. At least everyone is being respectful enough to do it today and not tomorrow.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 07:48:27 pm
The explosive and dramatic wagons between players is something I feel like I haven't seen in awhile. At least everyone is being respectful enough to do it today and not tomorrow.I think it's a direct result of having more players, especially when the players have been all over the place so far. Now that a lynch I can actually agree with is on the table, I want to jump on it immediately just out of relief. That might just be me though; my opinion on d1 has not significantly improved from the very start and the thought of playing out a 78-hour 13-player d1 all the way through comes close to making me want to replace out. :P
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 07:50:13 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 07:50:43 pm
What, now you're all moving on NQT when nobody would vote for him when I did before.Are you talking about your case here:
NQT has been one of the players I trust least so far this game, and the one whose flip I most want to see. I think he could absolutely be scum, and, if I'm wrong, I think it would be informative to find out. I didn't want to move my vote off him before, but nobody was going for it then. :(
I feel like voting again will probably backfire again somehow, but I also want to win, which means I want to lynch scum, and I think this is the right way to do it, so. notquitethere.
which you unvoted here:So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!No, lynch all liars.Too simplistic. I partially claim, mislead, imply and outright fabricate as town if it's useful for outplaying scum. Scum thrive in an environment where they have good info on town powers and know who they have to kill and who they need to redirect etc. I beseech all my fellow town players to lie.
Spoiler: large (click to show/hide)
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 07:55:37 pm
I'd say take it slow and make points you see.. But uh.. I still think you're scum with jack/toony. Nothing has really change on that front.Isn't that a totally new set of people you think I'm scum with?
Are you talking about your case here:That wasn't a "case", that was a "vote", with "some words attached". I wanted to see if notquitethere was pinging anyone else the way he was me, and it seemed like he wasn't, so I didn't push it at the time since I had other people to worry about too.
Making an exploratory d1 vote without explaining it is what I almost always do. It's probably NAI rather than townie because I think I've done it as scum, but it shouldn't strike you as surprising at all.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 07:59:12 pm
I also believe that Max is acting as his scumself. I think I'd characterize it as being ornery. Sure he's usually antisocial but there's a certain kind of antisocial here.I find it odd with Max's previous outburst that they would vote anybody after being goaded by Jim.
I feel mafia!Max wouldn't be so anti-town, so...it's a towntell. I actually scumread Max in Proc Gen 4 for being extremely selfless on D1 of that game. Later I read in the scumchat that Max himself thought that statement made him very townie, and was amused that I scumread them for it.
I don't believe Max acts extremely selfishly here as mafia, which is what he's been doing in this game.
Unrelatedly it's kinda stupid that I can get townread by half the players by showing up and being rude. I guess it's consistent enough?Showing up is half the battle for you Egan. My first game with you I never even saw you post when you were mafia.
readsNice post! I agree with a lot of this.
Why'd you rank yourself though?
Tric's number one scumtell is that you can actually understand his posts and they seem to be logically leading somewhere. His towntell is that he gets overly excited about his power role and will murder whoever he has to in order to become stronger. These meta behaviors are very strong in his case and have been borne out through multiple games.100% correct.
As such, lynching him because he's acting scummy and annoying usually means lynching town. If you are thinking: "you know, Tric has a point," he's usually scum.
Assuming that I'm scum if I'm wrong about your pet is a habit that both you and Webadict have picked up in the past years. How much do you want to commit to EuchreJack on Day 1?Very committed. I would need a huge wakeup call from players better than me that Jack is mafia.
That Toonyman clearly hasn't seen me in so long he's forgotten how I play D1.I had a good read of you last time we played right? The game where you were X-COM or whatever and I completely fucked up by voting Jack instead last second even thought I felt in my soul you were scum and Jack was innocent.
Also Toonyman thinking that I can't come up with reasons for someone after not having thoughts on them lol.Yes, you have stated how you slowly came to your conclusions because you are a natural and very town thinker.
I literally put my entire thought process in the thread for everyone to see as I slowly came to my conclusions.
At this point, I think it would be helpful to explain my previous vote of 4maskwolf.This bad bait shit is classic town!Jack.
It had three goals:
1) See how 4mask would respond to the second vote.
2) See how Knightwing64 would respond to someone joining his vote.
3) See how everyone else would respond to my second vote of 4mask.
I think it exceeded my wildest expectations.
1) 4mask looked a bit before, and especially after, like 4head: his town champs self. Granted, I've never seen wolf!4maskwolf, but looks town.
2) Knightwing64 got scared and stopped voting 4mask. Town Knightwing doesn't like to commit, Mafia Knight wants blood.
3) Several players jumped on the 4mask bandwagon. Why?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2022, 08:01:22 pm
Egan, I don't think your idea about how I play as scum is remotely accurate. Please tell me how any of it applies to the last game in which I was scum playing normally (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245).
I didn't read that game, and I'm not gonna do it now. This is how you played in BBYOR 2.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 08:01:37 pm
What, now you're all moving on NQT when nobody would vote for him when I did before.See, as you just said, your vote on him before was an "exploratory d1 vote" - so why are you saying this?
Quote
NQT has been one of the players I trust least so far this game, and the one whose flip I most want to see.Then where is the case or the serious vote? All I could find was an "exploratory d1 vote"
Quote
I think he could absolutely be scum, and, if I'm wrong, I think it would be informative to find out. I didn't want to move my vote off him before, but nobody was going for it then. :(Then where was your case? This entire take just doesn't match with what you were saying and doing.
Quote
I feel like voting again will probably backfire again somehow, but I also want to win, which means I want to lynch scum, and I think this is the right way to do it, so. notquitethere.This does not seem believable to me.
Post by: Mamobo on September 22, 2022, 08:23:02 pm
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 3 - Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410089#msg8410089), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410127#msg8410127),
notquitethere - 3 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410209#msg8410209), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410214#msg8410214), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
4maskwolf - 2 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410122#msg8410122),
Egan_BW - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410082#msg8410082),
EuchreJack - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409977#msg8409977),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409975#msg8409975),
ToonyMan - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410051#msg8410051),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731),
hector13 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (23 hours and 37 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces chooses the execution target.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 08:27:21 pm
I'd say take it slow and make points you see.. But uh.. I still think you're scum with jack/toony. Nothing has really change on that front.And I think you're scum with 4mask and 4mask is trying to distance from you after you fucked up.
I don't believe 4mask's vote on you at all.
Why Tric and 4mask are suspicious:
1. Their opening posts are the same
Toonyman
Yeet!
ToonyManI interpret this as playful camaraderie.
Yeet!
I think it's important to note that Tric posted after 4mask here, which means it's likely Tric did this of their own accord because they thought it would be funny.
2. 4mask's progression on Tric
My thoughts on Tric are as follows:I ask 4mask about Tric. 4mask says they have no thoughts on Tric.Spoiler: Thoughts On Tric (click to show/hide)
I’ve spent so long on MY that most of my reading ability is based on that particular environment, and the way Tric plays is so far outside that mold I have no idea what to do with him. The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.
"I have no idea what to do with them."
Tric chips in agreeing with 4mask that it's fair 4mask would have no thoughts about him. He also reminds 4mask about the yeet post.My thoughts on Tric are as follows:Fair given the number of posts I've made doesn't break the single digits. Also Yeet, can't forget that.Spoiler: Thoughts On Tric (click to show/hide)
I’ve spent so long on MY that most of my reading ability is based on that particular environment, and the way Tric plays is so far outside that mold I have no idea what to do with him. The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.
Oh right, yeet.4mask is like "oh yeeeah yeet, yeah wtf was Tric doing there?? haha"
Dude I have no fucking idea I assume he thought it was funny and decided to copy me but I have literally no idea.
Tric is just kinda existing in the thread and apparently according to everyone that should make me nervous so let’s go with that.
I have a theory that follow-the-leader posts are more likely to be wolf than the initial poster (not in the sense of sheeping but in, like, repeating a joke like the yeet thing) but I’m not really sure whether that bears out in practice and I’d be confbiased because I know I’m town.Then 4mask throws shade on Tric, but isn't sure.
Tric seems to mostly be speaking when spoken to which feels odd for “GIMME YOUR HATS I WANT HATS” man, and is objectively a basic way for wolves to try and fly under the radar.Then 4mask votes Tric for mostly posting to respond to people instead of being GIMME YOUR HATS MAN even though 4mask just said earlier that Tric plays so far outside the MafiaUniverse mold that he has no thoughts on him. Pretty odd to know Tric is the hats man right after. It's not natural.
Mm. The more I think about this the more I’m convincing myself.
Tric
A bit later...
Lenglon: It's not so much what Tricmagic is doing as what Tricmagic isn't doing.4mask gives their main points for why TricMagic is scummy.
1. Tricmagic isn't claiming. I'm reading D1 of Supernatural 10 for a different meta read but I noticed that Tric immediately claimed (partial) role in that game, Tric is famous for the hat thing in BYOR 15, and according to players with much more robust Tricmagic metas Tric not going full claim mode immediately is wolf indicative. It's also just objectively unusual for him, to my understanding, not to have done any role thing yet, especially in such a typically role-heavy setup. Though it isn't impossible he randed something important and has wisely kept his mouth shut about it.
2. Tric is being really passive thus far this game, which a) is a pretty easy way to try and skate by as mafia and b) is somewhat out of character for Tric, both in my limited experience and from what others are saying.
Although looking through Supernatural 10 I apparently went after Tric with a case that was predicated in part on low activity from Tric and I was just straight up wrong so murr. Now I'm doubting myself again.
Man I was an insufferable asshat in the last Supernatural game huh. Especially to Vector. Sorry Vector.
Also sorry to Tricmagic.
I think this is a pretty reasonable case, 4mask doesn't give full confidence at the end but that's whatever.
My problem is that I don't believe he came to this conclusion naturally.
Afterwards...
Toonyman claiming that I'm claiming that I came up with my read on Tric on my own when I clearly state in every post on the matter that people who know Tric better are saying he's wolf because XYZ, I can see it, so I'm sheeping them is interesting in italics.Where did you say you're sheeping people about Tric?
I'm seeing statements like this from you:
Tric seems to mostly be speaking when spoken to which feels odd for “GIMME YOUR HATS I WANT HATS” man, and is objectively a basic way for wolves to try and fly under the radar.That looks like your own thoughts to me.
Mm. The more I think about this the more I’m convincing myself.
Tric
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 08:29:24 pm
I take issue with your describing it as selfish.I also believe that Max is acting as his scumself. I think I'd characterize it as being ornery. Sure he's usually antisocial but there's a certain kind of antisocial here.I find it odd with Max's previous outburst that they would vote anybody after being goaded by Jim.
I feel mafia!Max wouldn't be so anti-town, so...it's a towntell. I actually scumread Max in Proc Gen 4 for being extremely selfless on D1 of that game. Later I read in the scumchat that Max himself thought that statement made him very townie, and was amused that I scumread them for it.
I don't believe Max acts extremely selfishly here as mafia, which is what he's been doing in this game.
I'm town and I want to win with the rest of town, so I don't think I'm being anti-town at all. If I did, I would stop. I do, though, have basically zero confidence in anyone else's scumreads. I guess I'd say that I tend to approach any game where I'm town with the assumption that everyone else will make bad choices. This isn't because I specifically think you are bad at the game, it's just the obvious neutral default to me: everyone else certainly might make bad choices, so it seems better for me to plan for that than to assume everyone will make good choices and very probably be disappointed at least once.
I was going to write more but then I saw more posts. So I'm just going to move on to those. My wounded amor propre is not the important thing here.
That was literally the game in which I did the best job acting like my real townself that I have ever done.
Egan, I don't think your idea about how I play as scum is remotely accurate. Please tell me how any of it applies to the last game in which I was scum playing normally (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180245).
I didn't read that game, and I'm not gonna do it now. This is how you played in BBYOR 2.
Max: Your exploratory D1 vote did not surprise me or even seem noteworthy. What is noteworthy to me is your new take on it, which I quoted at the top of my post.I think we have different definitions of an exploratory vote.What, now you're all moving on NQT when nobody would vote for him when I did before.See, as you just said, your vote on him before was an "exploratory d1 vote" - so why are you saying this?QuoteNQT has been one of the players I trust least so far this game, and the one whose flip I most want to see.Then where is the case or the serious vote? All I could find was an "exploratory d1 vote"QuoteI think he could absolutely be scum, and, if I'm wrong, I think it would be informative to find out. I didn't want to move my vote off him before, but nobody was going for it then. :(Then where was your case? This entire take just doesn't match with what you were saying and doing.QuoteI feel like voting again will probably backfire again somehow, but I also want to win, which means I want to lynch scum, and I think this is the right way to do it, so. notquitethere.This does not seem believable to me.
My vote was absolutely serious. I just didn't give a reason. I hardly ever give a reason. I was interested in seeing how other people would react to the vote, which I placed on the target I genuinely wanted to vote for. I do not think this is hard to understand. I intentionally misleadingly implied that my reason for voting was something silly by juxtaposing my serious vote with an offhand comment, which is something I often do d1 and have done many times before. I feel like I have said at least infinity times "my votes are always serious, especially when it looks like they aren't".
I also don't really care what you find believable.
I think I'm cool with this tie. The only reason mafia would choose to lynch easy scapegoat me over NQT is if NQT actually is scum, so it should be obvious what to do tomorrow. Long ToonyMan post, not reading it yet.
Post by: hector13 on September 22, 2022, 08:33:38 pm
Max voting NQT is not making me feel good about Max, tying up the votes if I’m correct on that front. He mentioned wanting to eliminate them earlier in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409967#msg8409967), based on the fact he doesn’t know much about NQT (as well as 4mask and Persus) but… that feels like a very crappy reason to eliminate someone, particularly combined with him suggesting the best one to get rid of would be the one that’s interacted with the most players, which… maybe that would make an informative elimination, but it’s based on something I think is more likely to be a town thing, so I don’t like it.
PPE: couple of posts to read while I was looking for Max’s post
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 08:40:07 pm
Is Lenglon poking Mad about voting NQT while she is also voting NQT? Oooookaaaay…I don't think that interacting with people is more likely to be a town thing in the case of strong players. It's easy to interact with people to look town. We just did it ourselves two games ago. But what I really mean isn't "interacted with the most players" exactly, but "has mutual entanglement with the most players so that the flip tells you something about them". Which I think is certainly true of NQT.
Max voting NQT is not making me feel good about Max, tying up the votes if I’m correct on that front. He mentioned wanting to eliminate them earlier in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409967#msg8409967), based on the fact he doesn’t know much about NQT (as well as 4mask and Persus) but… that feels like a very crappy reason to eliminate someone, particularly combined with him suggesting the best one to get rid of would be the one that’s interacted with the most players, which… maybe that would make an informative elimination, but it’s based on something I think is more likely to be a town thing, so I don’t like it.
PPE: couple of posts to read while I was looking for Max’s post
I also, to be clear, think there's a good chance NQT may actually be scum. I am even starting to think that NQT could be part of a witch coven that are trying to bat for each other subtly, and since I already think that there is a member of a witch coven who is secretly evil...
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 08:43:00 pm
Is Lenglon poking Mad about voting NQT while she is also voting NQT? Oooookaaaay…It's because I think Max is 3p, and I believe they're simply hopping on the most likely to cause not-Max to be the lynch bandwagon. I don't actually want Max lynched today, but I don't think Max is town. So when I see Max doing non-town things I am attempting to highlight it for people to see.
Max voting NQT is not making me feel good about Max, tying up the votes if I’m correct on that front. He mentioned wanting to eliminate them earlier in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409967#msg8409967), based on the fact he doesn’t know much about NQT (as well as 4mask and Persus) but… that feels like a very crappy reason to eliminate someone, particularly combined with him suggesting the best one to get rid of would be the one that’s interacted with the most players, which… maybe that would make an informative elimination, but it’s based on something I think is more likely to be a town thing, so I don’t like it.
PPE: couple of posts to read while I was looking for Max’s post
I don't mind Max voting NQT, just don't like Max's reasons for doing it.
Post by: TricMagic on September 22, 2022, 08:43:44 pm
Well, it's also good proof you're not looking to kill me at night, so... I happen to be the Warden, and you happen to be Evil Toony.
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 08:46:29 pm
To Toony, am I allowed to self-vote? Cause that post you made is extremely scummy if I'm TownTric.Lenglon giggles and quietly hums "my role my role my special role"
Well, it's also good proof you're not looking to kill me at night, so... I happen to be the Warden, and you happen to be Evil Toony.
Tric: Do you have anything to add or follow-up to this claim?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 08:51:01 pm
To Toony, am I allowed to self-vote? Cause that post you made is extremely scummy if I'm TownTric.Lenglon giggles and quietly hums "my role my role my special role"
Well, it's also good proof you're not looking to kill me at night, so... I happen to be the Warden, and you happen to be Evil Toony.
Tric: Do you have anything to add or follow-up to this claim?
Alternate Plan: You both STFU as you are both looking Not Evil and have maximized the WIFOM.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 08:52:24 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 22, 2022, 08:53:21 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 22, 2022, 09:08:20 pm
If Tricmagic is my wolf buddy who on earth would give me a good case on him lol.
I know Tric is the hat man because I played in that game lol. It was so memetic that literally the last game played was based on it. At the time I was rereading Supernatural 10 (which I note later to Lenglon) to try and get a read on someone else and also saw that Tric open claimed in his first post that game too (I'd remembered he'd claimed awkwardly but I didn't remember it was so damn early).
My case on him was influenced by other people's firmer belief that this odd behavior was wolf-indicative.
Also like... I'm allowed to do research and come to a different conclusion after saying I have no opinion. I said I had no opinion because I didn't, thought on it some and did some research, and came to a conclusion in real time.
If Tric is indeed a wolf I'm fairly happy to be eliminated D2 because I genuinely can't tell whether I'll help or harm the town if I accidentally target a wolf with my role, and I do acknowledge that the downright fucking bizarre way Tric has played around my slot seems teamed, but I have literally no idea what Tric was doing. I'd argue that if I was wolfing with Tric, that little stunt of copying my starting post like that would have annoyed me enough that I'd remember it and wouldn't have to be reminded of it by Tric himself, but YMMV.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 09:15:32 pm
Post by: Persus13 on September 22, 2022, 09:32:24 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 09:38:24 pm
Nah man, Tric is town, and Toony is suspicious for saying otherwise.+1
Bwah ha ha!
But seriously, I originally was suspicious of Max for joining my NQT vote so quickly, but Max is looking better.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 09:45:18 pm
But seriously, I originally was suspicious of Max for joining my NQT vote so quickly, but Max is looking better.I don't blame you. I know I'm getting frustrated with the relative lack of forward movement and it's making me too impulsive. I really am town, though. I'd rather admit to questionable judgement than let people think I'm reacting to things I'm not.
Post by: hector13 on September 22, 2022, 10:00:32 pm
Is Lenglon poking Mad about voting NQT while she is also voting NQT? Oooookaaaay…It's because I think Max is 3p, and I believe they're simply hopping on the most likely to cause not-Max to be the lynch bandwagon. I don't actually want Max lynched today, but I don't think Max is town. So when I see Max doing non-town things I am attempting to highlight it for people to see.
Max voting NQT is not making me feel good about Max, tying up the votes if I’m correct on that front. He mentioned wanting to eliminate them earlier in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409967#msg8409967), based on the fact he doesn’t know much about NQT (as well as 4mask and Persus) but… that feels like a very crappy reason to eliminate someone, particularly combined with him suggesting the best one to get rid of would be the one that’s interacted with the most players, which… maybe that would make an informative elimination, but it’s based on something I think is more likely to be a town thing, so I don’t like it.
PPE: couple of posts to read while I was looking for Max’s post
I don't mind Max voting NQT, just don't like Max's reasons for doing it.
What do you think the role distribution is like? If I remember right, you’re claiming town-ally that doesn’t count as town for the Evil wincon, you think Max is TP, Max has claimed there’s an evil witch in the game, which seems oddly specific when juxtaposed versus 4mask’s claim of doing something if he targets someone in the wolf team, by which I assume he means someone Evil, so would it be fair to say 2 TP (you and Max) maybe a witch SK and 2 scum? Or is the witch coven just the scum team, which (to me) possibly doesn’t make sense when you and Max have claimed monster tags for your actions, and 4mask’s claim I referred to earlier has to do with monsters, if I recall correctly.
That got away from me, little bit more feisty than I mean it, but it’s late and I can’t be bothered cleaning it up, sorry heh.
So, uh… yeah. What do you think the role distribution is?
MaxSpin
Is Lenglon poking Mad about voting NQT while she is also voting NQT? Oooookaaaay…I don't think that interacting with people is more likely to be a town thing in the case of strong players. It's easy to interact with people to look town. We just did it ourselves two games ago. But what I really mean isn't "interacted with the most players" exactly, but "has mutual entanglement with the most players so that the flip tells you something about them". Which I think is certainly true of NQT.
Max voting NQT is not making me feel good about Max, tying up the votes if I’m correct on that front. He mentioned wanting to eliminate them earlier in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409967#msg8409967), based on the fact he doesn’t know much about NQT (as well as 4mask and Persus) but… that feels like a very crappy reason to eliminate someone, particularly combined with him suggesting the best one to get rid of would be the one that’s interacted with the most players, which… maybe that would make an informative elimination, but it’s based on something I think is more likely to be a town thing, so I don’t like it.
PPE: couple of posts to read while I was looking for Max’s post
I also, to be clear, think there's a good chance NQT may actually be scum. I am even starting to think that NQT could be part of a witch coven that are trying to bat for each other subtly, and since I already think that there is a member of a witch coven who is secretly evil...
I mean… that just sounds like a regular scum team but with witch flavour so… it shouldn’t need any special consideration or anything like that :p
The thing about what you’re seeming to suggest above is that lynching a strong player would be beneficial to town, which seems a bit backward.
D’you mind giving me a summary on why you think NQT is scum? I don’t remember you saying why, but I’ve been getting distracted by various things as I’ve been reading and posting so I may have missed it, and I don’t want to trawl through the thread looking for it because I’ll inevitably get distracted again as that’s my life now.
As an aside. I don’t really recall ever seeing such a chaotic D1 with what seems like everyone suspecting so many different people and voting in so many different ways so yeah… don’t blame ya Persus.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 10:21:04 pm
I think things are quite calm and organized, when you consider how many players are in this.
Post by: hector13 on September 22, 2022, 10:23:13 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 22, 2022, 10:28:31 pm
This is how you fill out your vote: NQTSpoiler (click to show/hide)
okay, I'm currently (metaphorically) suffering whiplash from how fast my read of Jack is shifting.
It's shifting hard and fast enough that I'm about to bandwagon NQT, when only a few hours ago Jack was my preferred lynch.
NQT: the argument that sold me on voting you is one of fake activity. I admit to just being a follower on it, but I figured I should also say what part of the argument was convincing to me.
I feel like voting again will probably backfire again somehow, but I also want to win, which means I want to lynch scum, and I think this is the right way to do it, so. notquitethere.
I want to get off webadict's wild ride.
Jacks making point, no NQT charts.You're town. Stop wasting my time.
Sadly, don't really see it right now. Any comments on me EuchreJack?
What the fuck parallel universe did I enter
also the second coming of Dariush. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149600.msg6118116#msg6118116)
He was pure vitriol in virtually every situation, but, man, I miss him.
Unrelatedly it's kinda stupid that I can get townread by half the players by showing up and being rude. I guess it's consistent enough?
You set the bar you get judged against.
Knightwing: You voted 4maskwolf in the first post of the game, how do you feel about your vote on 4maskwolf now?
Knightwing64 is town and I'm willing to die on that.
Cowards.
Somehow the moment a real wagon was forming on me everyone found somewhere else to be.
Is this an invitation to solve your slot by lynching you? I'm perfectly happy to do this because otherwise I'd have great difficulty solving your slot.
Left to my own devices I might never suspect you.
All right, I'm going to level with you.
I'm just really bored and haven't slept since... I don't actually remember when, so I thought it would be funny to pretend to take your comment personally.
Then it kind of got out of hand.
You're not usually a goofball.
Are you talking about your case here:That wasn't a "case", that was a "vote", with "some words attached". I wanted to see if notquitethere was pinging anyone else the way he was me, and it seemed like he wasn't, so I didn't push it at the time since I had other people to worry about too.
Making an exploratory d1 vote without explaining it is what I almost always do. It's probably NAI rather than townie because I think I've done it as scum, but it shouldn't strike you as surprising at all.
You asshole, I ask you about shit and apparently you lie about it.
'oh i was just messing with notquitethere'
'oh well actually i was testing the waters to see how other people feel about notquitethere'
I should vote you and throw Lynch All Liars in your face.
I think we have different definitions of an exploratory vote.
My vote was absolutely serious. I just didn't give a reason. I hardly ever give a reason. I was interested in seeing how other people would react to the vote, which I placed on the target I genuinely wanted to vote for. I do not think this is hard to understand. I intentionally misleadingly implied that my reason for voting was something silly by juxtaposing my serious vote with an offhand comment, which is something I often do d1 and have done many times before. I feel like I have said at least infinity times "my votes are always serious, especially when it looks like they aren't".
Seriously you asshole, this is exactly what I asked you about early on in Day 1.
Fuck, apparently I shouldn't bother interacting with you at all because you're just going to waste my time with randomly duplicitous bullshit.
Thanks for owning up to it I guess.
I'd say take it slow and make points you see.. But uh.. I still think you're scum with jack/toony. Nothing has really change on that front.And I think you're scum with 4mask and 4mask is trying to distance from you after you fucked up.
Earlier in the day you were saying the opposite:
I like voting Tric or 4mask but I don't think both are scum at this point.
I think Tric has been bad but I don't like 4mask suddenly being enlightened and talking like its his own reasons in his Tric case post. I also don't like Max being like "yeah I support this lynch".
I like voting 4mask here because both of my top town reads are voting 4mask even if Knightwing has been sitting on the 4mask vote since game start without explaining anything.
I guess I can't really see Tric as scum with other players.
What happened?
Why Tric and 4mask are suspicious:
The rest of this post is actually very convincing.
ToonyMan's post about TricMagic and 4maskwolf is pretty convincing so I think I'm okay testing between those two.
Maximum Spin has made me angry with how he's been playing so I think I'm okay testing him as well.
I'd like to see more of Persus13. I like what I see when he posts well enough but I also feel like his engagement feels low and it could be higher. It feels like old school active lurking scum play.
notquitethere feels a bit better looking at him today than how I felt about him yesterday.
Everyone else I'm feeling okay about and don't really want to spend the time developing reads for.
How should I vote to raise the stakes? Let's go 4maskwolf.
Uh, how many 13 player games have been on these forums in recent history?
I think things are quite calm and organized, when you consider how many players are in this.
Yeah, this is nothing. Wait until tomorrow with an hour to go before the deadline. That's when the real fun begins.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 10:47:03 pm
I mean… that just sounds like a regular scum team but with witch flavour so… it shouldn’t need any special consideration or anything like that :pOh, I was thinking maybe only one of them is scum, so the other witches THINK they are all town and try to defend each other. It was just a wild speculation though.
Quote
The thing about what you’re seeming to suggest above is that lynching a strong player would be beneficial to town, which seems a bit backward.... lynching a strong scum player would be beneficial to town, yes. Those are the most dangerous ones, you know. Also, if you were in a position with no better leads, lynching the person everyone else has the hardest time reading would be a sound first move, which I think I implied at some point this game.
Quote
D’you mind giving me a summary on why you think NQT is scum? I don’t remember you saying whyI haven't. I'm not good at putting this sort of thing into words but, basically, he reminds me of how he acted in Armed Forces Mafia: just kind of there, letting town attack each other, trying to look like he's cheering on town real hard without committing to anything. Considering how well that worked then, I would prefer not to let that happen again.
Fuck, apparently I shouldn't bother interacting with you at all because you're just going to waste my time with randomly duplicitous bullshit.Yoooooou know I have no reason not to think you might be scum, right? Why would I want you to know everything I'm thinking?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2022, 10:55:37 pm
1. I made an inconsistent statement about 4mask earlier where I said I didn't like them using other people's views as their own to vote Tric. That isn't true I must have misremembered then. Reply #275.
2. I've been flipflopping on Tric because I couldn't see him as being mafia with anyone, which I want to attribute to 4mask's play.
3. Tric has called me Evil every time I get aggressive with 4mask and accuse 4mask. It's happened twice now. Reply #330 #379. Even 4mask has mentioned it.
4. Here is my favourite part. I was confused why Tric was still going after Jack and not trying to save himself more by making up a reason to vote 4mask back when Tric and 4mask were leading wagons, this could very well be because Tric does not want to vote 4mask. Reply #274.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 11:21:02 pm
Wow, does this ring of Town!Max. It's either expert coaching (maybe by Jim Distance?), or town!Max.Fuck, apparently I shouldn't bother interacting with you at all because you're just going to waste my time with randomly duplicitous bullshit.Yoooooou know I have no reason not to think you might be scum, right? Why would I want you to know everything I'm thinking?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 11:21:50 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 22, 2022, 11:25:36 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 11:27:18 pm
Is this the paranoia we’ve been waiting for? :pI have been holding it back, yeah.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 22, 2022, 11:28:42 pm
Fuck, apparently I shouldn't bother interacting with you at all because you're just going to waste my time with randomly duplicitous bullshit.Yoooooou know I have no reason not to think you might be scum, right? Why would I want you to know everything I'm thinking?
I don't care what you want out of the interaction, I only care about what I want.
If you're town, then wtf why are you concealing your genuine suspicion????????????????
wtf seriously wtf
Post by: Vector on September 22, 2022, 11:43:40 pm
I need to go to bed so I can't address everything right now. I'm posting from phone so it's hard for me to quote.
1. I made an inconsistent statement about 4mask earlier where I said I didn't like them using other people's views as their own to vote Tric. That isn't true I must have misremembered then. Reply #275.
2. I've been flipflopping on Tric because I couldn't see him as being mafia with anyone, which I want to attribute to 4mask's play.
3. Tric has called me Evil every time I get aggressive with 4mask and accuse 4mask. It's happened twice now. Reply #330 #379. Even 4mask has mentioned it.
4. Here is my favourite part. I was confused why Tric was still going after Jack and not trying to save himself more by making up a reason to vote 4mask back when Tric and 4mask were leading wagons, this could very well be because Tric does not want to vote 4mask. Reply #274.
This is a quality post. I'm willing to commit to 4mask and/or Tric based on this reasoning (prefer 4mask).
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 22, 2022, 11:49:48 pm
I don't care what you want out of the interaction, I only care about what I want.Because it's not that strong, and at the time, I decided to exercise discretion and try to look into other targets about which I might be able to say something stronger.
If you're town, then wtf why are you concealing your genuine suspicion????????????????
wtf seriously wtf
Ultimately, I didn't find any. I only think that Tric, Jack, and Knightwing are probably town. Admittedly, you're coming off as town here too.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 22, 2022, 11:57:02 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 01:46:57 am
LenglonIf I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.Is Lenglon poking Mad about voting NQT while she is also voting NQT? Oooookaaaay…It's because I think Max is 3p, and I believe they're simply hopping on the most likely to cause not-Max to be the lynch bandwagon. I don't actually want Max lynched today, but I don't think Max is town. So when I see Max doing non-town things I am attempting to highlight it for people to see.
Max voting NQT is not making me feel good about Max, tying up the votes if I’m correct on that front. He mentioned wanting to eliminate them earlier in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409967#msg8409967), based on the fact he doesn’t know much about NQT (as well as 4mask and Persus) but… that feels like a very crappy reason to eliminate someone, particularly combined with him suggesting the best one to get rid of would be the one that’s interacted with the most players, which… maybe that would make an informative elimination, but it’s based on something I think is more likely to be a town thing, so I don’t like it.
PPE: couple of posts to read while I was looking for Max’s post
I don't mind Max voting NQT, just don't like Max's reasons for doing it.
What do you think the role distribution is like? If I remember right, you’re claiming town-ally that doesn’t count as town for the Evil wincon, you think Max is TP, Max has claimed there’s an evil witch in the game, which seems oddly specific when juxtaposed versus 4mask’s claim of doing something if he targets someone in the wolf team, by which I assume he means someone Evil, so would it be fair to say 2 TP (you and Max) maybe a witch SK and 2 scum? Or is the witch coven just the scum team, which (to me) possibly doesn’t make sense when you and Max have claimed monster tags for your actions, and 4mask’s claim I referred to earlier has to do with monsters, if I recall correctly.
That got away from me, little bit more feisty than I mean it, but it’s late and I can’t be bothered cleaning it up, sorry heh.
So, uh… yeah. What do you think the role distribution is?
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2022, 05:13:03 am
--
KW is going to be expelled for being too engaged in the game:
Oof, this took longer then I thought. Imma hop off before I get yelled out
No way this is scum-KW.
4maskwolf
NQT in general is more focused on 3P and role hunting than I'm used to even from supernatural games this game I'm not comfortable with it.Do you want to unpack this claim? When did I rolehunt? There's certainly malicious 3rd parties, so of course I'm going to mention the possibility. But I still want to hit scum today.
Unrelatedly it's kinda stupid that I can get townread by half the players by showing up and being rude. I guess it's consistent enough?Astute point. This is a good start on giving your thoughts. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410110#msg8410110)
I've not gone a certain run of games being town and my run of scum before that was all pretty nonstandard stuff so I dunno what my play as Evil would be here either.
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2022, 05:18:49 am
Maybe you'd better share it now.After my read through maybe.
You have a bad habit of reusing outdated material.I explicitly said I didn't want to relitigate it with Lenglon in the next post. I had a big reads list that I made one day, then updated it for the next day and some old sentences were accidentally left in because my reading comprehension is completely shot with a cold (as I've said elsewhere (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180307.msg8409917#msg8409917)). Expect a few dumb mistakes. Would you have preferred I didn't post my thoughts?
At least so far, you've relitigated the Lenglon issue after it was already resolved, and reused a reads list that was old.
And you've developed the habit of trying to pull the strings.??? Unpack this thought. I don't get what your argument is meant to be here.
Lenglon
NQT: the argument that sold me on voting you is one of fake activity. I admit to just being a follower on it, but I figured I should also say what part of the argument was convincing to me.How am I faking activity? Explain yourself.
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2022, 05:21:28 am
What, now you're all moving on NQT when nobody would vote for him when I did before.Your first vote on me made absolutely no sense, like you literally voted my for arguing town should lie sometimes (a correct opionion) and this vote now is just a bandwagon.
NQT has been one of the players I trust least so far this game, and the one whose flip I most want to see. I think he could absolutely be scum, and, if I'm wrong, I think it would be informative to find out. I didn't want to move my vote off him before, but nobody was going for it then. :(
No way this is a town Max.
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2022, 05:56:17 am
Maybe you'd better share it now.
So here's how things stood:
Spoiler: Tric Wagon (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: When I tied the vote Tric/4mask (click to show/hide)
Lol, I was just about to post that I support a 4maskwolf lynch too.
And then as soon as something else becomes viable:
Let's go with EuchreJack. I'm not convinced he didn't just entirely make up his gelling read on Maximum Spin so that he could town read him.
Then he goes to the EJ wagon:
Sure, whatever. EuchreJack.
Before swiftly unvoting:
Unvote, by the way.
Spoiler: 4mask/EJ tie (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Max Wagon (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Max/NQT tie (click to show/hide)
So what have we seen? Max behaves entirely opportunistically, jumping on whatever wagon looks popular, and jumps off when he's concerned what it looks like.
I feel like voting again will probably backfire again somehow,
Jim is spot on here. Max is disingenuous. Absolutely happy to launch Max today:
Are you talking about your case here:That wasn't a "case", that was a "vote", with "some words attached". I wanted to see if notquitethere was pinging anyone else the way he was me, and it seemed like he wasn't, so I didn't push it at the time since I had other people to worry about too.
Making an exploratory d1 vote without explaining it is what I almost always do. It's probably NAI rather than townie because I think I've done it as scum, but it shouldn't strike you as surprising at all.
You asshole, I ask you about shit and apparently you lie about it.
'oh i was just messing with notquitethere'
'oh well actually i was testing the waters to see how other people feel about notquitethere'
I should vote you and throw Lynch All Liars in your face.
All to say... if Max is scum, then 4mask is probably not a scum partner. So I should be voting Maximum Spin (but I still want to hear some answers from 4mask).
Post by: TricMagic on September 23, 2022, 08:05:50 am
I need to go to bed so I can't address everything right now. I'm posting from phone so it's hard for me to quote.Just outright ignore the elephant I revealed why don't you? Why are you backing off so easily, is it cause you no longer have a need to pressure me?
1. I made an inconsistent statement about 4mask earlier where I said I didn't like them using other people's views as their own to vote Tric. That isn't true I must have misremembered then. Reply #275.
2. I've been flipflopping on Tric because I couldn't see him as being mafia with anyone, which I want to attribute to 4mask's play.
3. Tric has called me Evil every time I get aggressive with 4mask and accuse 4mask. It's happened twice now. Reply #330 #379. Even 4mask has mentioned it.
4. Here is my favourite part. I was confused why Tric was still going after Jack and not trying to save himself more by making up a reason to vote 4mask back when Tric and 4mask were leading wagons, this could very well be because Tric does not want to vote 4mask. Reply #274.
Post by: TricMagic on September 23, 2022, 08:08:29 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 23, 2022, 08:31:11 am
I'm all for Max too, I don't see the Jack/Max/Toony team being wrong right now.Then you're going to feel really really dumb, real soon.
I really just wanted to help town.
Post by: TricMagic on September 23, 2022, 08:34:24 am
By killing the insane cult leader?I'm all for Max too, I don't see the Jack/Max/Toony team being wrong right now.Then you're going to feel really really dumb, real soon.
I really just wanted to help town.
Post by: Mamobo on September 23, 2022, 09:01:18 am
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 5 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410089#msg8410089), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410127#msg8410127),
4maskwolf - 3 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410288#msg8410288), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410122#msg8410122),
notquitethere - 3 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410209#msg8410209), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410214#msg8410214), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
Knightwing64 - 1 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409975#msg8409975),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731),
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
hector13 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (10 hours and 58 minutes remaining.)
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 23, 2022, 09:23:23 am
There's a devil-summoning witch, the "Summoner", who has an ability called Devil Deal that I imagine is somehow related to the devil role someone mentioned a long time ago. There also seems to be a team of "Monsters".
The "Monsters" are only suggested in flavortext, but the witch is just about definite, because my role specifically reacts (badly) to the use of that ability, which would have effectively recruited me if it had hit. It's hard to imagine something that specific would be meant as a red herring.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:23:49 am
I was falling asleep in bed. I want to respond to 4mask as well when I can.I need to go to bed so I can't address everything right now. I'm posting from phone so it's hard for me to quote.Just outright ignore the elephant I revealed why don't you? Why are you backing off so easily, is it cause you no longer have a need to pressure me?
1. I made an inconsistent statement about 4mask earlier where I said I didn't like them using other people's views as their own to vote Tric. That isn't true I must have misremembered then. Reply #275.
2. I've been flipflopping on Tric because I couldn't see him as being mafia with anyone, which I want to attribute to 4mask's play.
3. Tric has called me Evil every time I get aggressive with 4mask and accuse 4mask. It's happened twice now. Reply #330 #379. Even 4mask has mentioned it.
4. Here is my favourite part. I was confused why Tric was still going after Jack and not trying to save himself more by making up a reason to vote 4mask back when Tric and 4mask were leading wagons, this could very well be because Tric does not want to vote 4mask. Reply #274.
What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative? Why are you defending 4mask so hard, but didn't have them on your townread list?
I'm all for Max too, I don't see the Jack/Max/Toony team being wrong right now.You are at least 80% wrong since I'm town. Jack is town. And Max is probably town.
Isn't it funny how your "Boom these are my 3 scumreads" at the start of game hasn't evolved at all? It's like you have a set plan you're following for the day.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 23, 2022, 09:37:55 am
Also, if any of you have a bodyguard role, I would like it to be used on me due to my crippling fear of death
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:47:46 am
Why are you claiming? You should have at least not mentioned the being recruited part. You also phrased it like you expect to die today.
@Knightwing:
Haha, funny joke.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 23, 2022, 09:48:54 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 10:30:53 am
Regarding Max: I refuse to vote Max the Survivor right now. I do not think Max is town, as I have said repeatedly, but I also am willing to believe Max's claims about the scumteam, and I want to vote out Evil, not Neutral.
Regarding 4mask: I feel like any and all feedback on attempting to townread 4mask could be summarized as: "yeah, but 4mask is 5head, so that's null". And yet instead of keeping 4mask as null, these same people are attempting to scumread 4mask with normal scumtells. I don't understand this, and it leaves me dissatisfied with them. I would call this Executioner behaviour, but it's multiple vets doing this, so it's more likely their real opinion, and that I'm missing something. I don't see many good ways to investigate this, as I normally would check it by voting 4mask for a reason I don't believe in myself, and watching for vote shifts, but that would involve lying.
NQT: if I am choosing between voting you and 4mask, I am voting you, because you voted Max, and 4mask has not voted. I am not completely settled on this, but it's what I'm most comfortable with for the moment.
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2022, 10:40:23 am
@Max:
Why are you claiming? You should have at least not mentioned the being recruited part. You also phrased it like you expect to die today.
All right, I'm not planning to hang around the rest of the day, so I guess I might as well spill what I know. It's not much, but it might be helpful still.
Vote CountIf I logged off for the day with 5 votes on me I'd sure feel I was going to die and start spilling the beans.
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 5 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410089#msg8410089), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410127#msg8410127),
Stream of consciousness post incoming.
Post by: TricMagic on September 23, 2022, 10:43:52 am
PFPFirst, 4mask hasn't rally shown anything that makes me suspect him. Second, that was not my starting scum team pairing. Saying so is disingenuous since I came to that conclusion after reading all the posts. Third, that single sentence just makes me double-down even harder since you'd really like to push others into thinking it's crazy.I was falling asleep in bed. I want to respond to 4mask as well when I can.I need to go to bed so I can't address everything right now. I'm posting from phone so it's hard for me to quote.Just outright ignore the elephant I revealed why don't you? Why are you backing off so easily, is it cause you no longer have a need to pressure me?
1. I made an inconsistent statement about 4mask earlier where I said I didn't like them using other people's views as their own to vote Tric. That isn't true I must have misremembered then. Reply #275.
2. I've been flipflopping on Tric because I couldn't see him as being mafia with anyone, which I want to attribute to 4mask's play.
3. Tric has called me Evil every time I get aggressive with 4mask and accuse 4mask. It's happened twice now. Reply #330 #379. Even 4mask has mentioned it.
4. Here is my favourite part. I was confused why Tric was still going after Jack and not trying to save himself more by making up a reason to vote 4mask back when Tric and 4mask were leading wagons, this could very well be because Tric does not want to vote 4mask. Reply #274.
What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative? Why are you defending 4mask so hard, but didn't have them on your townread list?I'm all for Max too, I don't see the Jack/Max/Toony team being wrong right now.You are at least 80% wrong since I'm town. Jack is town. And Max is probably town.
Isn't it funny how your "Boom these are my 3 scumreads" at the start of game hasn't evolved at all? It's like you have a set plan you're following for the day.
Also, saying Max is probably town is very distancing. Their latest reveal Just means they are going to get converted, but it's also a manner to put pressure on Lenglon by saying there is a team of monsters. How would they know that?
nin. Max doesn't really have anything to get out of this lynch, so they spill something false and then retire for the day to stop giving info. If they survive, great! If they don't, they've no longer given any info on their teammates we could get out of them.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 10:54:09 am
I don't care what you want out of the interaction, I only care about what I want.Because it's not that strong, and at the time, I decided to exercise discretion and try to look into other targets about which I might be able to say something stronger.
If you're town, then wtf why are you concealing your genuine suspicion????????????????
wtf seriously wtf
Ultimately, I didn't find any. I only think that Tric, Jack, and Knightwing are probably town. Admittedly, you're coming off as town here too.
'I only vote when I'm SUPER SERIOUS about it'
'ha ha i was just messing with notquitethere ha ha'
'but actually I wasn't joking i was serious'
'but it still wasn't that strong ha ha
that's why i only pretended not to be serious about it
but still serious enough to vote for notquitethere ha ha'
What is this evolving explanation?
I have doubts that lynching you catches scum, but I can't argue that you don't deserve it.
Regarding Max: I refuse to vote Max the Survivor right now. I do not think Max is town, as I have said repeatedly, but I also am willing to believe Max's claims about the scumteam, and I want to vote out Evil, not Neutral.
I know you've said this previously but I find this opinion bizarre.
Given how B12 treats survivors he could probably claim survivor and live but he hasn't done that, probably because he's not a third party.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 11:26:50 am
It was also, admittedly, based on some exhausted misreadings of your posts this game, your "is Tric an SK" comment to me somehow didn't process properly until I read it just now (you didn't believe Tric was a wolf and so were challenging me on the matter) so I read it as being overly interested in third-parties when combined with the whole Lenglon thing.
I don't get Max's roleclaim. If it's true Max literally claimed the most damning part of their role rather than the parts of their role that might exonerate them in our eyes. "Ayy lmao I can get converted by the wolves/third party" isn't a ringing endorsement of leaving you alive.
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2022, 11:27:37 am
Random Thought 1: Whenever folks say Jack my first thought is Jack A T instead of EuchreJack, despite him not playing mafia in like 5 years.
Random Thought 2: And when I went to look up how Jack A T's username is spelled I wound up rereading the highlights of BYOR 0.
Random Thought 3: Given all the buddying going on, part of me is paranoid that webadict did the two scumteams trick again.
Random Thought 4: Its really hard to analyze meta reads when I have 0 context for them, since they're referencing games I didn't even know happened.
I'm trying to understand Max's posts since he's the vote leader at present, but I just feel confused. Like:
I think Jack is incredibly readable, but look, if this is something we're just going to have to push past, I'll vote him if you want, okay? At some point you people are going to have to accept that I'll vote for anyone because I am not on a scumteam. :PI'm still really confused by what readable means in this sentence.
They're playing very stream of consciousness right now. They're not really playing like they have a grand plan and are pretty flaily. I guess I could see that as scum, but if that's the case his partners must be Egan or Vector or someone less active like that.
Knightwing:
Knightwing from the future here, it seems like I’m being suspected by Max and Persus? Being on my phone in class is stressful, so I’m just going to say this.You voted 4maskwolf in your first post of the game, so it was clearly random. Do you mind elaborating why you don't trust them now or is it just a gut feeling?
You’re wrong.
Persus, You said why I voted 4Mask? I don’t remember. But I don’t trust them, and I have a bad feeling about them. But I’m quickly getting suspicious of Max.
This was a good post and felt like panicked town worried about being voted than anything else. Lenglon gave you some good advice.. You had a vote on you, and in a 13 player game that's basically nothing. 3 or more is really when you should feel concerned. Unvote.
Ooo, my bad. I meant Jack, not Max.For the post I just quoted?
ToonyMan:
Hector13:
You definitely feel like you're coasting. Which might be the pot calling the kettle black here since I haven't been super active either, but some of your reads felt like copying other people rather than your own thoughts.
EuchreJack is… probably town? I mean, town!EJ usually goes through phases of rampant paranoia which I haven’t seen, particularly when people pressure him, but he’s making an effort even if that effort is a little bit weird at times (voting 4mask to see what happens, townreading Max as he agrees with Max) but it feels like he’s hitting the right notes for the most part. I find it hard to believe the change in mentality could be solely down to being coached in scumchat, particularly with the frequency of his posts, but I’ll keep that in my back pocket for the time being, just in case.So I assume scum EJ doesn't have paranoia phases?
4mask is 4mask!4mask. He didn’t start the game with his usual scattershot voting, but he’s being playful, if not particularly forthright in pushing people, and is using other people’s reads on Tric to scumread Tric, which I don’t like. Something to keep an eye on.This feels like you're just aping Toony here on a statement he later retracted (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410294#msg8410294). Do you have some further thoughts on this now?
Egan:
I also believe that Max is acting as his scumself. I think I'd characterize it as being ornery. Sure he's usually antisocial but there's a certain kind of antisocial here.Do you have a particular favorite town and scum game you've played?
Unrelatedly it's kinda stupid that I can get townread by half the players by showing up and being rude. I guess it's consistent enough?
I've not gone a certain run of games being town and my run of scum before that was all pretty nonstandard stuff so I dunno what my play as Evil would be here either.
Vector:
Persus13, what do you think of the day's events so far? In particular, what are your reads?Chaotic D1 fare that somehow has to be the basis for the rest of the game. My reads so far are that the weird Tric and Max thing feels like town on town. Toony is playing well, and I don't think he'd be staking his positions out as much on other people being town and scum if he were scum. But some of his takes feel weirdly overconfident to me. Jim and Knightwing both feel fairly town at present. I'm most suspicious of hector at present for some oddities that stood out to me. You I need more posts to get an impression of, same with Egan.
I mentioned to Lenglon awhile back that Tric, 4mask and NQT are my picks for scum, but after the past two days I'm not sure anymore.
Tric is playing extremely weird. Their interactions with 4mask have been super weird as Toony keeps pointing out, but they feel like a townie with tunnel vision rn rather than scum.
NQT doing vote analysis is more of what I'm used to from NQT D1 and so I'm a bit more comfortable with their play. I still have a few lingering suspicions but right now I don't think they're scum.
4maskwolf has been accused of active lurking and I guess I see it, but folks like hector feel more guilty of that to me.
TricMagic:
nin. Max doesn't really have anything to get out of this lynch, so they spill something false and then retire for the day to stop giving info. If they survive, great! If they don't, they've no longer given any info on their teammates we could get out of them.And its also classic town lynch play. SO yeah sure it can be aped by scum player hoping not to get lynched, but its still classic dead town behavior.
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2022, 11:28:22 am
@Max:
Why are you claiming? You should have at least not mentioned the being recruited part. You also phrased it like you expect to die today.All right, I'm not planning to hang around the rest of the day, so I guess I might as well spill what I know. It's not much, but it might be helpful still.Vote CountIf I logged off for the day with 5 votes on me I'd sure feel I was going to die and start spilling the beans.
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 5 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410089#msg8410089), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410127#msg8410127),
Stream of consciousness post incoming.
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 11:29:58 am
If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.
Well that’s the thing though, is you seem to think Max is a neutral survivor so it would make sense for me to question.your thoughts on the distribution, to see how he might fit in to that.
‘cause I don’t rightly understand the jump to immediately suspecting Max of being a survivor instead of just trying to retcon his reasons for a vote to make it seem a bit more reasonable, particularly in the face of tying up his wagon with NQT’s. He could do that as scum or town, really, so why the jump to survivor?
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2022, 11:30:13 am
I don't get Max's roleclaim. If it's true Max literally claimed the most damning part of their role rather than the parts of their role that might exonerate them in our eyes. "Ayy lmao I can get converted by the wolves/third party" isn't a ringing endorsement of leaving you alive.The "effectively recruited" me line seems weird to me. How are you effectively recruited? Someone takes your role or tells you what to do?
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2022, 11:31:05 am
If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.This sounds like my Good, Bad, and the Ugly Mafia game i ran with extra steps.
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 12:11:49 pm
Hector: I was mentally flip-flopping between Max as survivor or SK, but didn't see any reasonable way for him to be town or scum. Not scumhunting so not town, but also not teaming, generally seemed unsure / unstable, and his behavior really made me think he was afraid of being nightkilled. With his claim I concluded that he's almost certainly survivor, which to be fair had already been my top suspicion before, it mostly helped me worry less about Max as SK.If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.
Well that’s the thing though, is you seem to think Max is a neutral survivor so it would make sense for me to question.your thoughts on the distribution, to see how he might fit in to that.
‘cause I don’t rightly understand the jump to immediately suspecting Max of being a survivor instead of just trying to retcon his reasons for a vote to make it seem a bit more reasonable, particularly in the face of tying up his wagon with NQT’s. He could do that as scum or town, really, so why the jump to survivor?
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 12:20:13 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 12:54:13 pm
I get the coasting thing, ‘cause I am, for the various reasons I think I outlined at the top of my reads list.
As fer 4mask, it was this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409728;topicseen#msg8409728) I was referring to with the sheeping thing. He also seems to have spent a lot of time reading games other than this one to get a handle on Tric, which is an awful lot of effort for very little payoff (the possibility of solving one slot on D1 in a 13 player game). I could argue that makes it look like he’s making an effort when he really isn’t, but I’d rather have a Max elimination at this time.
Lenglon favouring NQT over 4mask also raised a point against 4mask, namely that 4mask hasn’t voted after 2 early RVS efforts, and a vote on Tric two posts after the one I linked, at that point based on sheeping and a bizarro scumtell in the post between the vote and the linked one. I’m used to seeing 4mask throw his vote around like it’s going out of fashion. I will concede I’ve not played a game with him for a while, but it doesn’t sit well.
Continuing on from something I said earlier, that the town’s weapon against hostile parties is voting them out, obviously that means a townie’s vote is important. Max thus delegating his vote to someone else does not reflect well on him, and 4mask parking their vote on Tric for sheepy/bizarre reasons while they go out of thread to figure them out is also a bit of a weird one.
Anyway… that’s another thing that got away from me heh.
As for EJ, I think I said at the end of my read in him that I could be wrong, I’m just kind of unwilling to scumread someone (on D1) for making a good effort to push the game forward, even if it’s against their meta a little bit. He might very well have phases of paranoia as scum - I’ve been playing mafia for years and I get waves like that as both alignments - but I would probably expect that to manifest itself in the scum thread if he has one available rather than the game thread. I’m not sure how easy it would be to fake paranoia realistically.
Anyway, even thinking of it like that, there are other people I would prefer to see flip instead of EJ right now. I think in the views of other people, you and I are probably on that list :p
Also, you seem to have set aside a part for Toony in that big post, but there’s nothing in it.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 01:00:24 pm
FYI Max plays like that regardless of alignment on Day 1. Max is a loner. So Max is almost certainly either town or mafia. My gut is Town.Hector: I was mentally flip-flopping between Max as survivor or SK, but didn't see any reasonable way for him to be town or scum. Not scumhunting so not town, but also not teaming, generally seemed unsure / unstable, and his behavior really made me think he was afraid of being nightkilled. With his claim I concluded that he's almost certainly survivor, which to be fair had already been my top suspicion before, it mostly helped me worry less about Max as SK.If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.
Well that’s the thing though, is you seem to think Max is a neutral survivor so it would make sense for me to question.your thoughts on the distribution, to see how he might fit in to that.
‘cause I don’t rightly understand the jump to immediately suspecting Max of being a survivor instead of just trying to retcon his reasons for a vote to make it seem a bit more reasonable, particularly in the face of tying up his wagon with NQT’s. He could do that as scum or town, really, so why the jump to survivor?
Admittedly, I have to reread Max's claim, because "will be recruited into scumteam" is a valid launch candidate.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 01:02:12 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 01:05:19 pm
PFPI was falling asleep in bed. I want to respond to 4mask as well when I can.I need to go to bed so I can't address everything right now. I'm posting from phone so it's hard for me to quote.Just outright ignore the elephant I revealed why don't you? Why are you backing off so easily, is it cause you no longer have a need to pressure me?
1. I made an inconsistent statement about 4mask earlier where I said I didn't like them using other people's views as their own to vote Tric. That isn't true I must have misremembered then. Reply #275.
2. I've been flipflopping on Tric because I couldn't see him as being mafia with anyone, which I want to attribute to 4mask's play.
3. Tric has called me Evil every time I get aggressive with 4mask and accuse 4mask. It's happened twice now. Reply #330 #379. Even 4mask has mentioned it.
4. Here is my favourite part. I was confused why Tric was still going after Jack and not trying to save himself more by making up a reason to vote 4mask back when Tric and 4mask were leading wagons, this could very well be because Tric does not want to vote 4mask. Reply #274.
What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative? Why are you defending 4mask so hard, but didn't have them on your townread list?I'm all for Max too, I don't see the Jack/Max/Toony team being wrong right now.You are at least 80% wrong since I'm town. Jack is town. And Max is probably town.
Isn't it funny how your "Boom these are my 3 scumreads" at the start of game hasn't evolved at all? It's like you have a set plan you're following for the day.
Oh and vote Toonyman for Power Role Hunting. We know probably too much about Tric already, so STFU!
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 01:07:20 pm
I was willing to forgive it as a Famous town!Toony gambit, until this latest investigation by Toonyman.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 01:19:24 pm
I don't get Max's roleclaim. If it's true Max literally claimed the most damning part of their role rather than the parts of their role that might exonerate them in our eyes. "Ayy lmao I can get converted by the wolves/third party" isn't a ringing endorsement of leaving you alive.So what's that make Max?
Hint: Not wolves/third party
Also critical in my judgement is that Max, like me, has claimed monster abilities and so, like me, I would expect Max to be non-Good. Toss in the blatent votes to protect himself instead of find evil, and non-Good Max is pretty much a given IMO.Wrong. Max is being himself.
@Hector:
Persus says right after he misplaced my part earlier.
@Jack:
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 01:22:25 pm
@Jack:This statement bothers me, because it doesn't seem to match with what you said to Tric.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 01:23:46 pm
@Jack:
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
But you and I both know Tric lacks the discretion to ignore your inquiry, or answer it without giving more info.
Your question is most likely to result in Tric fullclaiming something he should NOT.
You should know better, ToonyMan
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 01:27:24 pm
What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative?
This was BAD Toony. Very Bad.
@Tric: My apologies, you in fact responded quite well to Toonyman. Good job!
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 01:28:17 pm
I also find it suspicious that I'm like 88% sure that Tric is Town, yet Toonyman is relentlessly scumreading Tric.I'm 88% sure Max is town.
I was willing to forgive it as a Famous town!Toony gambit, until this latest investigation by Toonyman.
Oh? I wanted to know Tric's intentions for firing their role name at that point.@Jack:This statement bothers me, because it doesn't seem to match with what you said to Tric.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Literally nobody questioned me when I said I was going to investigate 4mask or NQT early on in the day. Is this because players are terrified of being called ro-ro-role fishers? Grow up.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 01:34:50 pm
In my case, I sorta forgot that claim.I also find it suspicious that I'm like 88% sure that Tric is Town, yet Toonyman is relentlessly scumreading Tric.I'm 88% sure Max is town.
I was willing to forgive it as a Famous town!Toony gambit, until this latest investigation by Toonyman.Oh? I wanted to know Tric's intentions for firing their role name at that point.@Jack:This statement bothers me, because it doesn't seem to match with what you said to Tric.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Literally nobody questioned me when I said I was going to investigate 4mask or NQT early on in the day. Is this because players are terrified of being called ro-ro-role fishers? Grow up.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 01:35:13 pm
Screw you. My opinion on your reads is that they range from surprisingly accurate to complete ass, but you move around so much that your good reads only last for 5 seconds. And then after the game is over everyone is like "wow Jack you called the whole scum team" but town still lost and you only had that moment of clarity for a heart beat.What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative?This was BAD Toony. Very Bad.
@Tric: My apologies, you in fact responded quite well to Toonyman. Good job!
Let's think for a moment.
I don't like Tric but it's true I'm not 100% sure.
You don't like Max but you are also not 100% sure.
How can we best come out on top of this situation?
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 01:36:52 pm
What I'm saying is that this:
What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative?and this:
@Jack:Do not seem to match.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Your response:
does not appear to address this, and instead seems to be attempting to direct attention elsewhere, to an argument that I did not make.Oh? I wanted to know Tric's intentions for firing their role name at that point.@Jack:This statement bothers me, because it doesn't seem to match with what you said to Tric.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Literally nobody questioned me when I said I was going to investigate 4mask or NQT early on in the day. Is this because players are terrified of being called ro-ro-role fishers? Grow up.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 01:41:33 pm
Ceasefire.Screw you. My opinion on your reads is that they range from surprisingly accurate to complete ass, but you move around so much that your good reads only last for 5 seconds. And then after the game is over everyone is like "wow Jack you called the whole scum team" but town still lost and you only had that moment of clarity for a heart beat.What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative?This was BAD Toony. Very Bad.
@Tric: My apologies, you in fact responded quite well to Toonyman. Good job!
Let's think for a moment.
I don't like Tric but it's true I'm not 100% sure.
You don't like Max but you are also not 100% sure.
How can we best come out on top of this situation?
I'll agree not to vote Max if you agree not to vote Tric.
Since we are not voting Max or Tric, we'll both have to look at other targets.
I'll even stop voting you, if necessary.
Deal?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 01:42:34 pm
I'm positive scum took note of it, but said nothing. I'm obviously not going to clarify what I'm doing, but I had a very clear intention by saying what I did. This is what I want to know from Tric.In my case, I sorta forgot that claim.I also find it suspicious that I'm like 88% sure that Tric is Town, yet Toonyman is relentlessly scumreading Tric.I'm 88% sure Max is town.
I was willing to forgive it as a Famous town!Toony gambit, until this latest investigation by Toonyman.Oh? I wanted to know Tric's intentions for firing their role name at that point.@Jack:This statement bothers me, because it doesn't seem to match with what you said to Tric.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Literally nobody questioned me when I said I was going to investigate 4mask or NQT early on in the day. Is this because players are terrified of being called ro-ro-role fishers? Grow up.
Toony:They do match? I'm asking why they claimed Warden.
What I'm saying is that this:What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative?and this:@Jack:Do not seem to match.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 01:47:16 pm
Neither of us is voting Max or Tric and I don't care if you vote me. You piss me off like this most games as town so I'm not surprised and will get over it.Ceasefire.Screw you. My opinion on your reads is that they range from surprisingly accurate to complete ass, but you move around so much that your good reads only last for 5 seconds. And then after the game is over everyone is like "wow Jack you called the whole scum team" but town still lost and you only had that moment of clarity for a heart beat.What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative?This was BAD Toony. Very Bad.
@Tric: My apologies, you in fact responded quite well to Toonyman. Good job!
Let's think for a moment.
I don't like Tric but it's true I'm not 100% sure.
You don't like Max but you are also not 100% sure.
How can we best come out on top of this situation?
I'll agree not to vote Max if you agree not to vote Tric.
Since we are not voting Max or Tric, we'll both have to look at other targets.
I'll even stop voting you, if necessary.
Deal?
How about instead of deal, we put our heads together and find mafia.
I want to make an updated D1 reads list which I will also do when I get home.
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 01:48:27 pm
Why is often used to ask for reasons.
What is often used to ask for implications.
Lets say that A -> B -> C
If you ask "Why B?" the answer is likely A.
If you ask "What B?" the answer is likely C.
You asked What. What is not Why. That is why your statement bothers me.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 01:56:42 pm
I'm busy at work still but I should be home before deadline.I don't get Max's roleclaim. If it's true Max literally claimed the most damning part of their role rather than the parts of their role that might exonerate them in our eyes. "Ayy lmao I can get converted by the wolves/third party" isn't a ringing endorsement of leaving you alive.So what's that make Max?
Hint: Not wolves/third party
Inclined to agree with this. I don't think Max is pulling this out of his ass, and if he is, great work to him.
If he's convertible then he's very likely not scum.
Even though I have very large reservations about how he's playing.
Quote
ToonyMan is rolefishing
Get out of here, literally not worth caring about even if it's true.
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 01:58:04 pm
That seems reasonable to me.QuoteToonyMan is rolefishing
Get out of here, literally not worth caring about even if it's true.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 02:01:13 pm
Fair enough, you are correct. I should have said why.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 02:09:59 pm
I'm voting ToonyMan, who is yelling at me for switching my votes all the time.
This has me thinking ToonyMan...Eh fuck it, I think I'll just keep voting ToonyMan. It's getting me a better read on Toony, even if I'm having trouble deciphering it.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 02:17:32 pm
It's probably NOT Toonyman because town!Toony is capable of getting over his irritation with my play, whereas scum!Toony would have planted the seeds to lynch me later on. So Unvote
Vector is a solid vote. I've seen Vector post more in this game, before end of Day 1, then the entirety of several other games.
And I don't think it's been helpful townsided play. Then again, Vector as Town would totally try to lynch Tric at the drop of a hat.
@Toony: What are your thoughts on Vector? WHY?
Post by: TricMagic on September 23, 2022, 02:24:46 pm
I'm positive scum took note of it, but said nothing. I'm obviously not going to clarify what I'm doing, but I had a very clear intention by saying what I did. This is what I want to know from Tric.In my case, I sorta forgot that claim.I also find it suspicious that I'm like 88% sure that Tric is Town, yet Toonyman is relentlessly scumreading Tric.I'm 88% sure Max is town.
I was willing to forgive it as a Famous town!Toony gambit, until this latest investigation by Toonyman.Oh? I wanted to know Tric's intentions for firing their role name at that point.@Jack:This statement bothers me, because it doesn't seem to match with what you said to Tric.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Literally nobody questioned me when I said I was going to investigate 4mask or NQT early on in the day. Is this because players are terrified of being called ro-ro-role fishers? Grow up.Toony:They do match? I'm asking why they claimed Warden.
What I'm saying is that this:What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative?and this:@Jack:Do not seem to match.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Scumteams.
Ceasefire.Screw you. My opinion on your reads is that they range from surprisingly accurate to complete ass, but you move around so much that your good reads only last for 5 seconds. And then after the game is over everyone is like "wow Jack you called the whole scum team" but town still lost and you only had that moment of clarity for a heart beat.What is saying you're a Warden mean? Do you plan on saying more or are you just saying that to sound authorative?This was BAD Toony. Very Bad.
@Tric: My apologies, you in fact responded quite well to Toonyman. Good job!
Let's think for a moment.
I don't like Tric but it's true I'm not 100% sure.
You don't like Max but you are also not 100% sure.
How can we best come out on top of this situation?
I'll agree not to vote Max if you agree not to vote Tric.
Since we are not voting Max or Tric, we'll both have to look at other targets.
I'll even stop voting you, if necessary.
Deal?
Quite fun isn't it? I claimed specifically cause of your post. At this point you weren't going to kill me. If my team hypothesis is correct.. Well, I question why you're question it, the reason is in that same post. I shouldn't have to go over it twice.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 02:26:22 pm
Post by: TricMagic on September 23, 2022, 02:32:52 pm
And Toony still doubts this is Town!Tric... ::)Still not convincing me you're townjack.
To Toony, am I allowed to self-vote? Cause that post you made is extremely scummy if I'm TownTric.
Well, it's also good proof you're not looking to kill me at night, so... I happen to be the Warden, and you happen to be Evil Toony.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.360 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.360) This page has 2 of the posts near the bottom. Though really it's been going on all game.
I already poked at you about completely ignoring my claim in your next post. It's too late to question it now after trying to push attention away. You're basically seeking 4mask at the moment, but I have no doubt you would have been willing to lynch anyone and distance yourself from your partners. Max is going down and jack after them, so you can't be tied to that ship or you'll sink too.
Put simply, you can't kill me without revealing I'm town, can you? This is simple fact. Hence me being perfectly willing to get lynched to see you revealed as the Evil you are.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 02:33:26 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 02:34:28 pm
Post by: webadict on September 23, 2022, 03:15:29 pm
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 5 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410089#msg8410089), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410127#msg8410127),
4maskwolf - 3 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410288#msg8410288), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410122#msg8410122),
notquitethere - 2 - Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410214#msg8410214), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
hector13 - 1 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452),
TricMagic - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731),
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410522#msg8410522),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 20:00 CDT (4 hours and 46 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: I will be gone at Day end, so Day is artificially Extended to 22:00 CDT (6 hours 46 minutes from now) to account for this. I apologize for an inconvenience this change may cause.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 03:25:25 pm
(I was about to do an unofficial vote count, but this is better. I also appreciate the extension, as it means I'll be available for end of day. Thanks Web!)
Not sure how I feel about the Max Lynch. Max has admitted in the past that his scum strategy is to tell 90% of the truth. So it's entirely possible he claimed his scum role in such a way as to look town. Max also engages more before Day 2 as scum than as town.
Max unfortunately just looks scummy as town, however. So I'm waffling. I also have not had time to actually talk to Max. Now that I'm available, Max goes dark.
The end of day looks interesting. The coalition against Max is not exactly strong, unlike the block voting 4mask.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 03:51:58 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 03:58:24 pm
Vector's Posts:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409281#msg8409281 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409281#msg8409281)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409290#msg8409290 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409290#msg8409290)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410108#msg8410108 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410108#msg8410108)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410113#msg8410113 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410113#msg8410113)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410122#msg8410122 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410122#msg8410122)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410306#msg8410306 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410306#msg8410306)
I actually like them more the more that I read them. I guess I'll look at other people....
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 04:00:36 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 04:04:26 pm
I actively despise the 4mask lynch. It seems to be something that has been building from the periphery, in a scum way, rather than organically formed by town.What does this mean? I don't understand what you're trying to say about different ways lynch wagons build.
Post by: Vector on September 23, 2022, 04:13:22 pm
Vector is a solid vote. I've seen Vector post more in this game, before end of Day 1, then the entirety of several other games.
And I don't think it's been helpful townsided play. Then again, Vector as Town would totally try to lynch Tric at the drop of a hat.
Then come vote me, asshole. No need to FoS!
Feel free to clarify your bolded statement, perhaps with evidence attached.
PPE: I'm not surprised you find my posts adequate. You're barking up the wrong tree ... and I'm only sick, not dead!
@Vector: Anything to add? Your posts seem to boil down to "I agree with Toony".
Yeah, I don't like that NQT and the lurker fringe (sorry Hector) are the ones deciding the lynch today. Maximum Spin is a bad choice in my opinion. The case on him has feelings + meta, whereas the case on 4mask has hard evidence and 4mask has done little to defend himself.
My posts are "I agree with Toony's case on 4mask," and then with the reactions consolidated to "I'm settled on 4mask and would like others to not be voting Max Spin when they could be voting 4mask."
I especially don't like that Egan did the exact opposite of making a stand when I told them to act on their feelings. I was expecting a case but instead I got a vote and a speedy disappearance.
Well, with that said:
Lenglon, Persus, and Hector, are you committed to keeping your votes where they are for EoD?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 04:18:24 pm
I actively despise the 4mask lynch. It seems to be something that has been building from the periphery, in a scum way, rather than organically formed by town.What does this mean? I don't understand what you're trying to say about different ways lynch wagons build.
Well, first there was a lot of talk about 4mask. I'm downright afraid to build the wall that would document it.
But from my brief sojourn into the beginning of Day 1, it appears that Toonyman's random finger of interest landed on 4mask, that Toony properly investigated 4mask, and has concluded that 4mask might be scum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409545;topicseen#msg8409545). Since Toonyman has an inspect of some sort, he wants a lynch of 4mask so he doesn't have to waste his time investigating one of his suspected targets. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409533;topicseen#msg8409533)
However, sneaky Jim started off by planting the seed of 4mask as scum. In a jokey way, of course. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409119#msg8409119) Oh look, Jim went around to voting 4mask. How convenient.
Maximum Spin also referenced the prediction of being on a mafia team with NQT & 4mask. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409174;topicseen#msg8409174) But was clever enough to word it so as to not say "yes, we be scum"
Oh look, NQT also predicted that 4mask was scum. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409214;topicseen#msg8409214) But it's only a prediction, right? ;D
...seriously, any wonder 4mask has 3 votes?
@Vector: You're being fooled, let's find real scum perhaps?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 04:19:00 pm
Post by: Vector on September 23, 2022, 04:21:37 pm
Pretty sure about Jim, too, although I'm not quite as good at reading him.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 04:27:05 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 04:29:23 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 04:49:58 pm
Day 1 Reads
Not Evil
Lenglon - really convincing claim right at day start
Good
Jack - Good = Green
Knightwing - literally posting on his phone during his high school class
Weak Good
Max - extremely self-destructive, I think this is actually normal for town!Max
Jim - probably the same level as Vector in reality, I don't like them chasing Jack or Max but maybe I'm the wrong one. I like that they agree with my points but that doesn't make them town. I want them around.
NQT - kind of shakey but I do want NQT to stick around
Maybe Good
Vector - I like that they agree with my points but that doesn't make them town.
Persus - has completely avoided the spotlight, I feel this was also true in Supernatural 10 and they were town in that (masons with NQT)
Egan - has some reads, don't really have a strong impression and don't really know what a town!Egan would do
Hector - hey vig can you shoot Lenglon? hint hint hint. Have been pretty weak otherwise but isn't exactly powerwolfing like they were as mafia recently.
Tric - they still upset me but I won't vote them, I think I'll give Jack the win here. I can't wait to inevitably be mad when Tric successfully protects the mafia on N2.
Evil
4mask - I don't believe their vote on Tric is genuine. Hasn't pressed a case on anybody else and just seems to want to avoid dying (like Max except they're not Max). I also remember them bring up support against Jim to affirm Jack's research into Jim's meta, which seems shady to me since they're making Jim look bad while not taking a firm stance. Straight up calls town cowards when his initial wagon dissolves which I find infuriating.
I'm willing to vote Egan, Hector, or 4mask the most. I don't really want to vote Persus since I like their posts and I also have low confidence in voting Egan or Hector. I probably wouldn't be torn up if Vector or Persus were on the chopping block.
PPE:
I like the new Vector posts. Maybe I would be torn up if Vector was on the chopping block.
More later.
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 04:59:08 pm
Lenglon, Persus, and Hector, are you committed to keeping your votes where they are for EoD?No, no I am not. However, I don't like the cases on either of the lynch leads. I think I've made my view of Max quite clear, and 4mask I don't want to vote because of their start of day actions. Either of these could also be overcome, if someone presented a reason to think Max is an SK instead of survivor for example, or if I found a case against 4mask convincing. But neither of these have surfaced as far as I can tell. Toony's case on 4mask seems dependent on Tric being scum, which I don't accept and if I did then I'd probsbly want to lynch Tric. You and Jim didn't present cases of your own as far as I could tell, instead you both seem to be saying you find Toony's case compelling. And nobody at all has presented a reason to think Max is an SK that I noticed. So my vote is currently independent of either current lynch lead, instead on the person I personally find most suspicious. I am aware that others are unconvinced by my case, and at EoD if it looks like it might tie between Max and someone I consider town then I'll probably vote the 3p to avoid a Good person being lynched. But that is my current view of things.
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2022, 05:01:36 pm
Lenglon, Persus, and Hector, are you committed to keeping your votes where they are for EoD?Unless someone tries to tie up the vote at day end, I'll probably stick with my vote. I'm not convinced Max is scum, but I think his flip gives us a lot of info still, same if 4maskwolf or NQT winds up overtaking him. Hector's response to my post was a decent response, but not enough to make me unvote and make me not want to see his flip.
As fer 4mask, it was this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409728;topicseen#msg8409728) I was referring to with the sheeping thing. He also seems to have spent a lot of time reading games other than this one to get a handle on Tric, which is an awful lot of effort for very little payoff (the possibility of solving one slot on D1 in a 13 player game). I could argue that makes it look like he’s making an effort when he really isn’t, but I’d rather have a Max elimination at this time.Reading other games can be fun, not just to get a handle on someone.
Lenglon favouring NQT over 4mask also raised a point against 4mask, namely that 4mask hasn’t voted after 2 early RVS efforts, and a vote on Tric two posts after the one I linked, at that point based on sheeping and a bizarro scumtell in the post between the vote and the linked one. I’m used to seeing 4mask throw his vote around like it’s going out of fashion. I will concede I’ve not played a game with him for a while, but it doesn’t sit well.
Continuing on from something I said earlier, that the town’s weapon against hostile parties is voting them out, obviously that means a townie’s vote is important. Max thus delegating his vote to someone else does not reflect well on him, and 4mask parking their vote on Tric for sheepy/bizarre reasons while they go out of thread to figure them out is also a bit of a weird one.
I'm glad you substantiated your case a bit more, but this still feels like you're pointing out things other noticed first.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 05:10:32 pm
@Persus13: I'm buying the suspicion on hector13, but apparently nobody else. I think NQT is the better vote. What do you think, hector13 vs. not NQT?
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2022, 05:13:42 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/vhueFN2.png)
Like Persus and 4mask are either scum or incompetent or in the wrong time zone or something.... I hope to resolve this D2.
4mask
NQT: I was reading through Supernatural 10 at the time and it felt like you were a lot more involved in the scumhunting side in that game then you were in this game. Like, you did mechanics stuff because you're, y'know, you, but it felt like you came into this game swinging trying to figure out mechanics stuff moreso than that game (despite the fact that two people immediately soft roleclaimed in that game).Big difference is that I came into this game knowing that I'd already done a lot of heavy lifting in Supernatural 10 that I could draw on. I've not been all-out mechanics focus, but laying out some of the mechanical possibilities is important to me as I know I had that info on hand, so why not share it Day 1?
I don't get Max's roleclaim. If it's true Max literally claimed the most damning part of their role rather than the parts of their role that might exonerate them in our eyes. "Ayy lmao I can get converted by the wolves/third party" isn't a ringing endorsement of leaving you alive.Makes zero sense from a town perspective, yeah.
So... you hoping for a last second switch to Tric or...?
Persus... I know it's old school Bay 12 play to make useless votes and let scum win, but do you really expect a last second Hector push? Come on.
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2022, 05:15:55 pm
Like NQT perhaps?I don't get the beef. This is like my meta read on Toony, I've been burned too many times with him, I can't trust him even when he's objectively not that bad. I'm not the one, and you know it.
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2022, 05:22:42 pm
Persus... I know it's old school Bay 12 play to make useless votes and let scum win, but do you really expect a last second Hector push? Come on.Lol, deal with it. Stranger things have happened.
Post by: Vector on September 23, 2022, 05:25:10 pm
@Vector: What "hard evidence" exists on 4mask?
That one post of Toony's that I pulled was excellent. Combine with 4mask's lack of self-defense . . . that's a very compelling D1 pick.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 05:26:13 pm
Good point unvoteLike NQT perhaps?I don't get the beef. This is like my meta read on Toony, I've been burned too many times with him, I can't trust him even when he's objectively not that bad. I'm not the one, and you know it.
I'm just not buying the Max lynch, and worried that I'm being sold the 4mask lynch.
I don't really have the time to research hector13.
I mean, I know quite a few players that are town:
TricMagic
Egan_BW
Knightwing64
Lenglon (well, town adjacent)
Some are probably town:
ToonyMan
Persus13
Vector
Max
4mask...seriously, am I the ONLY one that read 5head's Champs Game?
But I really don't know about the rest. And they're not really viable lynch candidates.
So fuck it, joining Persus in voting hector13
nah, 4mask doesn't dive under the scumbus@Vector: What "hard evidence" exists on 4mask?
That one post of Toony's that I pulled was excellent. Combine with 4mask's lack of self-defense . . . that's a very compelling D1 pick.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 05:27:05 pm
@Vector: What "hard evidence" exists on 4mask?
That one post of Toony's that I pulled was excellent. Combine with 4mask's lack of self-defense . . . that's a very compelling D1 pick.
4mask did make a post which I wish to respond to now that I'm more free, but yeah.
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 05:29:04 pm
I’m later to comment on events in the game than most, sure, ‘cause of the coasting, and I’m working with the same information that everyone else is, so it shouldn’t really be that surprising I’m drawing the same conclusions as other players.
I don’t really know what you’re expecting me to do. If I don’t have anything novel to say should I just be silent and/or not vote?
@Vector
My preference would be for a Max elimination, but I’m not averse to a 4mask one either, as I would hope my recent posts have made clear.
Jim made a summary of Max’s play (that I’ll link in a different post ‘cause of a current distraction) that adequately describes a significant portion of why I like Max as scum, Max has dropped quite a few votes today which is absolutely not something he tends to do, and he delegated his vote to Jim, even though he at one point suggested to Jim he didn’t trust him, plus trying to keep himself off the block shifting to voting NQT, who I currently read as town.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 05:29:18 pm
I mean, I know quite a few players that are town:??? You feel that strongly about Egan?
Egan_BW
Some are probably town:I did not read this game. Can you explain?
4mask...seriously, am I the ONLY one that read 5head's Champs Game?
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 05:32:52 pm
If you do, do you think he could be both potentially convertible and scum?
4mask...seriously, am I the ONLY one that read 5head's Champs Game?
I did. Well, parts of it.
4maskwolf was very engaged in that game. What would you say his engagement in this game compared to that one is?
I know we are absolutely not as active as those games.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 05:33:47 pm
NQT, do you believe Maximum Spin when he says he's potentially convertible by the evil devil summoning witch?
If you do, do you think he could be both potentially convertible and scum?
hector13, same question.
Post by: TricMagic on September 23, 2022, 05:38:24 pm
I am now thinking Max is a werebear of some sort hoping to get people to visit and die now that they're on the chopping block.NQT, do you believe Maximum Spin when he says he's potentially convertible by the evil devil summoning witch?
If you do, do you think he could be both potentially convertible and scum?
hector13, same question.
Was going to save this question, but what's your thoughts on that Lenglon?
Post by: Vector on September 23, 2022, 05:42:33 pm
That one post of Toony's that I pulled was excellent. Combine with 4mask's lack of self-defense . . . that's a very compelling D1 pick.
4mask did make a post which I wish to respond to now that I'm more free, but yeah.
To be clear, I don't mean to say that he said nothing. I'm saying the D1 standard, to defend oneself and then make a strong post on a different candidate, has not been reached. I don't feel remotely satisfied by his defense.
But I really don't know about the rest. And they're not really viable lynch candidates.
There's exactly three players remaining who you didn't list as cleared: Jim, Hector, and NQT. So, do you feel that that's your scumteam?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 05:44:32 pm
First, 4mask hasn't rally shown anything that makes me suspect him.Fair enough, so would you put 4mask in a middle-range? You don't suspect them, but don't townread them either?
Second, that was not my starting scum team pairing. Saying so is disingenuous since I came to that conclusion after reading all the posts.It sure fucking was, this is your second post of the game unless I missed it:
Your first post is the Yeet one.I want to vote Hector for fundamentally disagreeing with what they're saying, but I don't know if that makes them scum. They haven't done the scumtell I've picked up on from last game so I think they're okay. I will say it if I pick up on it.No, gonna claim
I'll vote TricMagic, what's going on dude? Gonna claim Knight again?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As for me up to this post. I'm going to put my suspisions on Max/Jack/Toony as the 3p team. Toony is last, Max is first.
Well, not really, but why vote me?
You have had Max/Jack/Toony as your scumteam since we've started playing.
Third, that single sentence just makes me double-down even harder since you'd really like to push others into thinking it's crazy.It's at least quite wrong.
Also, saying Max is probably town is very distancing. Their latest reveal Just means they are going to get converted, but it's also a manner to put pressure on Lenglon by saying there is a team of monsters. How would they know that?Do you believe Max can be converted? Because you sound like you do here and that makes him unlikely to be mafia.
nin. Max doesn't really have anything to get out of this lynch, so they spill something false and then retire for the day to stop giving info. If they survive, great! If they don't, they've no longer given any info on their teammates we could get out of them.True or false, which is it Tric?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 05:47:07 pm
MU meta is entirely different to the meta here. A big part of play, especially on D1, is real-timing with people to try and develop a solid core of townies and then eliminating wolves from there, but with the slower and more scumhunting focused meta here that's not really a thing. Also the games are generally way faster paced and you end up real-timing with people a whole bunch to shape your opinions on them, which again is not how we play here.
So there's not really much value in comparing my games beyond super broad strokes because I am, definitionally, going to play differently in two vastly different metas.
NQT: There are three top wagons. One is me, which I don't want. One is you, which I don't want, especially after looking over your stuff with fresh eyes this morning. And one is Max who is already at L-2 and I'm not a huge fan of D1 hammers. So I'm not in any super huge rush to consolidate my vote considering that I'll be here (although playing FFXIV) until day end.
I'm also, y'know, my usual level of detached from D1 on Bay12. I've been on mafia hiatus for a while due to burnout and I'm still pretty burned out so hyperposting aggressive 4mask was never going to come out D1 this game.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 05:48:32 pm
I want to vote Hector for fundamentally disagreeing with what they're saying, but I don't know if that makes them scum. They haven't done the scumtell I've picked up on from last game so I think they're okay. I will say it if I pick up on it.This reminds me: Hector has not done the scumtell I've been thinking of so far.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 05:50:54 pm
I am now thinking Max is a werebear of some sort hoping to get people to visit and die now that they're on the chopping block.
Was going to save this question, but what's your thoughts on that Lenglon?
If you're suggesting that Maximum Spin is a third party,
my win condition says nothing about eliminating anything but Evil. Players trying to eliminate third party players without evidence that they're actually hostile are not playing to the Good (with a capital G) win condition.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 05:53:25 pm
Tric and his werebears lol...I am now thinking Max is a werebear of some sort hoping to get people to visit and die now that they're on the chopping block.NQT, do you believe Maximum Spin when he says he's potentially convertible by the evil devil summoning witch?
If you do, do you think he could be both potentially convertible and scum?
hector13, same question.
Was going to save this question, but what's your thoughts on that Lenglon?
Tric werebears are generally a town-aligned role lol. It was just one specific case where they weren't and given this is a Wuba game I'm not sure we'll see it this time around.
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 06:05:03 pm
I don’t like the point though :(
Spoiler: bananas speculation (click to show/hide)
Not rightly sure how to approach the voting nonsense as me unvoting Max and voting my second choice of 4mask ties the vote.
Unvote, I suppose.
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 06:07:10 pm
Tric: I currently think that Max is 3p, probably survivor. I think this is a Web game, and in Web games normally nobody is powerless or unimportant. I believe Max's claim of being recruitable and the associated role details, and would prefer to not lynch Max. I don't care to speculate on who might or might not be some variant of Paranoid Gun Owner right now, and consider it unimportant and not worth considering right now.I am now thinking Max is a werebear of some sort hoping to get people to visit and die now that they're on the chopping block.NQT, do you believe Maximum Spin when he says he's potentially convertible by the evil devil summoning witch?
If you do, do you think he could be both potentially convertible and scum?
hector13, same question.
Was going to save this question, but what's your thoughts on that Lenglon?
Perseus: could you re-summarize or link your case on Hector? I'm a bit busy at the moment and don't want to re-read the thread, but the only noteworthy problem I have with Hector right now is I think they undersold the value of town kill power, and I don't think that's something to lynch someone over.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 06:12:41 pm
Toony.I think my case still works on you even if Tric is town.
If Tricmagic is my wolf buddy who on earth would give me a good case on him lol.
I know Tric is the hat man because I played in that game lol. It was so memetic that literally the last game played was based on it. At the time I was rereading Supernatural 10 (which I note later to Lenglon) to try and get a read on someone else and also saw that Tric open claimed in his first post that game too (I'd remembered he'd claimed awkwardly but I didn't remember it was so damn early).If that's true, then when I asked you about Tric, why did you say you have no thoughts about Tric at all besides he didn't fit the MU mold?
My case on him was influenced by other people's firmer belief that this odd behavior was wolf-indicative.Fair enough.
Also like... I'm allowed to do research and come to a different conclusion after saying I have no opinion. I said I had no opinion because I didn't, thought on it some and did some research, and came to a conclusion in real time.I see. You spent the next three hours between 4:46pm and 7:59pm EST reading older game threads with Tric in them.
I still find your reaction suspicious.
If Tric is indeed a wolf I'm fairly happy to be eliminated D2 because I genuinely can't tell whether I'll help or harm the town if I accidentally target a wolf with my role, and I do acknowledge that the downright fucking bizarre way Tric has played around my slot seems teamed, but I have literally no idea what Tric was doing. I'd argue that if I was wolfing with Tric, that little stunt of copying my starting post like that would have annoyed me enough that I'd remember it and wouldn't have to be reminded of it by Tric himself, but YMMV.Hmmm. You genuinely don't remember Tric copying your opening post, but when Tric reminds you about yeet you do?
I really don't want to believe you here.
You say this:
The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.And I just can't believe you wouldn't remember a player copying your first post. I'm pretty sure I would remember unless I wasn't taking the game seriously or I was lying. Was Tric that forgettable?
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 06:14:39 pm
If you don’t want to go through the 30+ pages of thread, go to search function for the forum a couple of tabs to the left of the “my messages” tab, put Supernatural in the search bar, sorted by recent posts, my name in the user bar, and you probably don’t even need to limit it to the mafia subforum but do it anyway. I just did it and it lists all my posts in the game on the first page, which is good ‘cause I think it breaks if you try to go to page 2.
I don’t mind the vote, but I’d like a better reason than “fuck it” :p
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 06:16:20 pm
I think my case still works on you even if Tric is town.Toony: I don't see this, but I think I'm probably missing something obvious. Could you please link or summarize how your case on 4mask still works with Tric as town?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 06:28:03 pm
I think you and I have different levels of notability for things like that. Copypastas and random start of game memery are bog standard in a lot of MU games so things like "a player copied my post word for word" is not something I'm going to immediately jump to as standing out, but will remember if I'm reminded.Toony.I think my case still works on you even if Tric is town.
If Tricmagic is my wolf buddy who on earth would give me a good case on him lol.I know Tric is the hat man because I played in that game lol. It was so memetic that literally the last game played was based on it. At the time I was rereading Supernatural 10 (which I note later to Lenglon) to try and get a read on someone else and also saw that Tric open claimed in his first post that game too (I'd remembered he'd claimed awkwardly but I didn't remember it was so damn early).If that's true, then when I asked you about Tric, why did you say you have no thoughts about Tric at all besides he didn't fit the MU mold?My case on him was influenced by other people's firmer belief that this odd behavior was wolf-indicative.Fair enough.Also like... I'm allowed to do research and come to a different conclusion after saying I have no opinion. I said I had no opinion because I didn't, thought on it some and did some research, and came to a conclusion in real time.I see. You spent the next three hours between 4:46pm and 7:59pm EST reading older game threads with Tric in them.
I still find your reaction suspicious.If Tric is indeed a wolf I'm fairly happy to be eliminated D2 because I genuinely can't tell whether I'll help or harm the town if I accidentally target a wolf with my role, and I do acknowledge that the downright fucking bizarre way Tric has played around my slot seems teamed, but I have literally no idea what Tric was doing. I'd argue that if I was wolfing with Tric, that little stunt of copying my starting post like that would have annoyed me enough that I'd remember it and wouldn't have to be reminded of it by Tric himself, but YMMV.Hmmm. You genuinely don't remember Tric copying your opening post, but when Tric reminds you about yeet you do?
I really don't want to believe you here.
You say this:The only thing that comes to mind is I feel like I’d have remembered at least one of his posts by now, but I haven’t.And I just can't believe you wouldn't remember a player copying your first post. I'm pretty sure I would remember unless I wasn't taking the game seriously or I was lying. Was Tric that forgettable?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 06:29:28 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 23, 2022, 06:31:38 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 06:35:55 pm
I don't believe 4mask is being honest with their feelings.I think my case still works on you even if Tric is town.Toony: I don't see this, but I think I'm probably missing something obvious. Could you please link or summarize how your case on 4mask still works with Tric as town?
I think you and I have different levels of notability for things like that. Copypastas and random start of game memery are bog standard in a lot of MU games so things like "a player copied my post word for word" is not something I'm going to immediately jump to as standing out, but will remember if I'm reminded.Counterpoint: There's far less posts to read in a game like this, correct?
In addition, can you state the order of events for me? From the point you had no thoughts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409615#msg8409615) about Tric to knowing he's the Hat memelord (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731). What did you do exactly?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 06:37:53 pm
Also this still.I know Tric is the hat man because I played in that game lol. It was so memetic that literally the last game played was based on it. At the time I was rereading Supernatural 10 (which I note later to Lenglon) to try and get a read on someone else and also saw that Tric open claimed in his first post that game too (I'd remembered he'd claimed awkwardly but I didn't remember it was so damn early).If that's true, then when I asked you about Tric, why did you say you have no thoughts about Tric at all besides he didn't fit the MU mold?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 06:49:34 pm
I realized I didn't have any thoughts on Tricmagic this game, that that was odd, and so reported that and went to read some posts, both in this game and others.
Also I'm going to stop you right there on the whole "well you knew Tric was the hat memelord so why did you have no thoughts" because that's a nonsense line of argument and I'd like to think you know that. When I was asked what my thoughts on Tric were, I assume I'm being asked "what are your thoughts on Tric this game" and not "What do you know about Tricmagic, the player, across all of his games at this point in time", and I don't think any reasonable person would come to a different conclusion. There is literally no disconnect between me not having immediate thoughts on Tricmagic this game and knowing Tricmagic's reputation and a little bit of meta. Nor is there a disconnect between Tricmagic playing outside of the playstyle I'm comfortable reading and me having a very small amount of meta knowledge that other people said meant Tric was wolf indicative.
In the intervening period while I was doing other things and reading a couple other games for context (mostly not about Tric, to be fair) Tric made a few posts and reading through them I got a sense of "Tric seems really calm, collected, and is only really engaging with the game when other people talk about him" and it brought up memories of his other posts which were similarly unremarkable so I'd filed them away as irrelevant. That, combined with other people saying Tric's behavior was weird on a meta level and wolf indicative and me realizing how early he tried to psuedo-claim in Supernatural 10 gave me bad vibes, so I voted there.
You're acting like less posts means I'm going to store most of the posts in the game for active recall but that's... not really how my memory works? I don't know if this is a "my ADHD brain" problem or a just a thing for everyone but if it doesn't stand out to me I'm not going to recall anything about it on the spot unless something else connects to that memory. For example, Tric saying yeet brought up the memory of his posts at the start of the game, or the sensation of passiveness I got from his posts reminding me of how he'd felt kinda reactive all game.
Because I didn't at the time. See the big paragraph above.Also this still.I know Tric is the hat man because I played in that game lol. It was so memetic that literally the last game played was based on it. At the time I was rereading Supernatural 10 (which I note later to Lenglon) to try and get a read on someone else and also saw that Tric open claimed in his first post that game too (I'd remembered he'd claimed awkwardly but I didn't remember it was so damn early).If that's true, then when I asked you about Tric, why did you say you have no thoughts about Tric at all besides he didn't fit the MU mold?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 06:55:50 pm
In the intervening period while I was doing other things and reading a couple other games for context (mostly not about Tric, to be fair) Tric made a few posts and reading through them I got a sense of "Tric seems really calm, collected, and is only really engaging with the game when other people talk about him" and it brought up memories of his other posts which were similarly unremarkable so I'd filed them away as irrelevant.Which games?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 06:59:28 pm
Mostly Supernatural 10 because a) last supernatural and b) I look back on that game fondly but some of Wuba's Simple BYOR 2.In the intervening period while I was doing other things and reading a couple other games for context (mostly not about Tric, to be fair) Tric made a few posts and reading through them I got a sense of "Tric seems really calm, collected, and is only really engaging with the game when other people talk about him" and it brought up memories of his other posts which were similarly unremarkable so I'd filed them away as irrelevant.Which games?
If you want to know how bad my memory is I had to actually go back and look to see which games were colored as being clicked on to jog my memory of what the other game was.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 23, 2022, 07:07:40 pm
You're acting like less posts means I'm going to store most of the posts in the game for active recall but that's... not really how my memory works? I don't know if this is a "my ADHD brain" problem or a just a thing for everyone but if it doesn't stand out to me I'm not going to recall anything about it on the spot unless something else connects to that memory. For example, Tric saying yeet brought up the memory of his posts at the start of the game, or the sensation of passiveness I got from his posts reminding me of how he'd felt kinda reactive all game.Yeah, I definitely get the same impression that some people expect way too much detailed recall of every post. I don't think it's ADHD though, I'm pretty sure that's "totally normal". That's how memory is supposed to work.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 07:10:01 pm
Also I'm going to stop you right there on the whole "well you knew Tric was the hat memelord so why did you have no thoughts" because that's a nonsense line of argument and I'd like to think you know that. When I was asked what my thoughts on Tric were, I assume I'm being asked "what are your thoughts on Tric this game" and not "What do you know about Tricmagic, the player, across all of his games at this point in time", and I don't think any reasonable person would come to a different conclusion. There is literally no disconnect between me not having immediate thoughts on Tricmagic this game and knowing Tricmagic's reputation and a little bit of meta. Nor is there a disconnect between Tricmagic playing outside of the playstyle I'm comfortable reading and me having a very small amount of meta knowledge that other people said meant Tric was wolf indicative.I agree it's not suspicious to say you have no read of Tric at that point. I think it's suspicious you claimed to have no read of Tric because he was outside the MU mold you were used to, but then after you appear to know Tric's meta quite well even without the intervening research period.
Okay. Do you remember any specific posts by Tric in S10 or SBYOR2 where he struck you as calm, collected, and only engaging when people talked to him?Mostly Supernatural 10 because a) last supernatural and b) I look back on that game fondly but some of Wuba's Simple BYOR 2.In the intervening period while I was doing other things and reading a couple other games for context (mostly not about Tric, to be fair) Tric made a few posts and reading through them I got a sense of "Tric seems really calm, collected, and is only really engaging with the game when other people talk about him" and it brought up memories of his other posts which were similarly unremarkable so I'd filed them away as irrelevant.Which games?
If you want to know how bad my memory is I had to actually go back and look to see which games were colored as being clicked on to jog my memory of what the other game was.
I don't remember Tric being like that in Supernatural 10.
I didn't really read SBYOR2, but Tric won that as mafia right?
*checks*
No...Tric was town in both of those games.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 07:15:33 pm
I messed up. I thought you meant this game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180072.0) for Wuba's Simple BYOR 2, but you meant the game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179638.msg8359182#msg8359182) where you were mafia with NQT. I think the point still stands because Tric was town there as well.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 07:24:08 pm
Thatsthepoint.jpg.Also I'm going to stop you right there on the whole "well you knew Tric was the hat memelord so why did you have no thoughts" because that's a nonsense line of argument and I'd like to think you know that. When I was asked what my thoughts on Tric were, I assume I'm being asked "what are your thoughts on Tric this game" and not "What do you know about Tricmagic, the player, across all of his games at this point in time", and I don't think any reasonable person would come to a different conclusion. There is literally no disconnect between me not having immediate thoughts on Tricmagic this game and knowing Tricmagic's reputation and a little bit of meta. Nor is there a disconnect between Tricmagic playing outside of the playstyle I'm comfortable reading and me having a very small amount of meta knowledge that other people said meant Tric was wolf indicative.I agree it's not suspicious to say you have no read of Tric at that point. I think it's suspicious you claimed to have no read of Tric because he was outside the MU mold you were used to, but then after you appear to know Tric's meta quite well even without the intervening research period.Okay. Do you remember any specific posts by Tric in S10 or SBYOR2 where he struck you as calm, collected, and only engaging when people talked to him?Mostly Supernatural 10 because a) last supernatural and b) I look back on that game fondly but some of Wuba's Simple BYOR 2.In the intervening period while I was doing other things and reading a couple other games for context (mostly not about Tric, to be fair) Tric made a few posts and reading through them I got a sense of "Tric seems really calm, collected, and is only really engaging with the game when other people talk about him" and it brought up memories of his other posts which were similarly unremarkable so I'd filed them away as irrelevant.Which games?
If you want to know how bad my memory is I had to actually go back and look to see which games were colored as being clicked on to jog my memory of what the other game was.
I don't remember Tric being like that in Supernatural 10.
I didn't really read SBYOR2, but Tric won that as mafia right?
*checks*
No...Tric was town in both of those games.
Tric being calm and collected was unusual. Him being passive about his role was unusual. And other people agreed that it was unusual and said it was wolfy unusual, and given that Tric was town in both games where he was very screwy and very roleclaimey made me agree.
Also I played most of my recent games on MU so my brain is still stuck on reading people MU style, sue me. I had no read on him, then I sheeped other people's meta reads on him that lined up with the conclusions I'd come to. That's literally all there is to it, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Not even a molehill, out of nothing.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 07:33:15 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 07:48:47 pm
I hope I'm not scaring players away from day end, but I wanted to grill 4mask before day end with some questions I had. I don't plan on moving my vote still.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 07:51:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 07:53:35 pm
I'm not happy with the leading Max wagon, but with 4mask not even voting Max it seems likely Max will perish.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 07:59:18 pm
Day ends at...10pm with the added time? That's a little over an hour from now.Two hours, I think.
I'm not happy with the leading Max wagon, but with 4mask not even voting Max it seems likely Max will perish.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 08:00:20 pm
His push on me isn't wolfy bad faith.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 08:03:54 pm
Day light savings is screwing me.Day ends at...10pm with the added time? That's a little over an hour from now.Two hours, I think.
I'm not happy with the leading Max wagon, but with 4mask not even voting Max it seems likely Max will perish.
FTR Toony is probably town, as much as he's hypertunneled.What about Jim and Vector?
His push on me isn't wolfy bad faith.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 08:13:19 pm
Vector is mostly agreeing with Toony, so that.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 08:15:06 pm
Euchre's weird thing about Jim is just... wrong, but I'm not clearing them since they're both basically just using your case without adding anything. I would say Vector's comments on me are really weak but Vector doesn't have the same level of meta on me that most of y'all do to know that I'm not always super aggressive at defending myself.Day light savings is screwing me.Day ends at...10pm with the added time? That's a little over an hour from now.Two hours, I think.
I'm not happy with the leading Max wagon, but with 4mask not even voting Max it seems likely Max will perish.FTR Toony is probably town, as much as he's hypertunneled.What about Jim and Vector?
His push on me isn't wolfy bad faith.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 08:16:28 pm
I said I COULD see it. I could also see Jim setting you up from the start.Euchre's weird thing about Jim is just... wrong, but I'm not clearing them since they're both basically just using your case without adding anything. I would say Vector's comments on me are really weak but Vector doesn't have the same level of meta on me that most of y'all do to know that I'm not always super aggressive at defending myself.Day light savings is screwing me.Day ends at...10pm with the added time? That's a little over an hour from now.Two hours, I think.
I'm not happy with the leading Max wagon, but with 4mask not even voting Max it seems likely Max will perish.FTR Toony is probably town, as much as he's hypertunneled.What about Jim and Vector?
His push on me isn't wolfy bad faith.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 08:18:19 pm
This end of day is LAMEI was going to say the same exact thing.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 08:22:00 pm
This end of day is LAMEI was going to say the same exact thing.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 08:26:56 pm
1. He won't be able to respond to my latest accusation post before day is over
2. I told Jack I wouldn't
I don't want to vote Max or NQT, so that leaves like Hector or Egan for me which I have no strong reason to vote currently.
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2022, 08:31:44 pm
@PersusThe 4mask stuff came across like you were saying the same things as Toony to pad out a reads list to look good rather than actually having similar thoughts. Hence why I asked you to elaborate.
I’m later to comment on events in the game than most, sure, ‘cause of the coasting, and I’m working with the same information that everyone else is, so it shouldn’t really be that surprising I’m drawing the same conclusions as other players.
I don’t really know what you’re expecting me to do. If I don’t have anything novel to say should I just be silent and/or not vote?
At this point my vote is symbolic of who I want to see flip. I'd prefer you to talk more if you can, but I'm not going to ask you to do anything specific.
Perseus: could you re-summarize or link your case on Hector? I'm a bit busy at the moment and don't want to re-read the thread, but the only noteworthy problem I have with Hector right now is I think they undersold the value of town kill power, and I don't think that's something to lynch someone over.Hector's just been doing a passive under the radar approach to the game. Early D1 his main engagement was whether you were third party. To be fair some of that was provoked by other people questioning him on that subject, but he didn't do a lot to spread out from that topic until more recently. His reads list felt like it was padding out stuff by imitating other people, and in particular his 4mask read felt like he was just copying other people's thoughts.
I thought Max was the one who said their was three witches?As far as I can tell, the first mention of three witches in the thread is this post from Lenglon:
If I had to take a wild guess here and now? I'd guess three witches, one good one neutral one evil, some kind of witch hunter that wants to find witches instead of evils, some kind of non-monster SK, and three monster-themed mafia. I think from Web's perspective and game balance I was treated as a town miller instead of as a 3p. But it's a D1 in a 13 player Web game, I don't think speculating on the setup composition is going to be productive, and I'm unconcerned with it when I'm attempting to figure people out right now. I'll probably be more interested in this topic on later days, just not now.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 08:33:02 pm
Maximum Spin - notquitethere, TricMagic, Knightwing64, Egan_BW
notquitethere - Lenglon, Maximum Spin
4maskwolf - ToonyMan, Vector, Jim Groovester
hector13 - Persus13, EuchreJack
TricMagic - 4maskwolf
Not voting - hector13
Important to note here that Maximum Spin could tie the vote by voting 4maskwolf, which will result in a scum-chosen lynch that will only work in our favor if somehow 4maskwolf and Maximum Spin are both scum (which a Maximum Spin/4maskwolf team could avoid by stacking votes on hector13).
I'm finding notquitethere's and TricMagic's votes on Maximum Spin kind of weak. Knightwing64's and Egan_BW's votes are also probably bad but I expect less from them.
I think I'd prefer to pivot to TricMagic here.
I want to vote Tric, but:
I'm game to vote TricMagic if you are. I think your 4maskwolf/TricMagic case damns TricMagic more than 4maskwolf, especially after 4maskwolf's engagement with you.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 08:36:29 pm
At this point my vote is symbolic of who I want to see flip.
Do you have other lynch preferences that you might stomach that have better chances of happening?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 08:40:44 pm
Jack, can I vote Tric? I would prefer to vote Tric even if it involves joining 4mask. I really don't like Tric in this game.
Post by: Vector on September 23, 2022, 08:44:35 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 08:49:01 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 08:51:48 pm
TricMagic because I could wait for ToonyMan's cue but causing panic at end of day sounds like more fun.Uh oh.
Jim Groovester has embraced the chaos.
We're all doomed.
Post by: Mamobo on September 23, 2022, 08:53:31 pm
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 4 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410127#msg8410127),
TricMagic - 3 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409731#msg8409731), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710),
hector13 - 2 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605),
notquitethere - 2 - Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410214#msg8410214), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048),
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 CDT (1 hours and 6 minutes remaining.)
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 08:55:40 pm
the last game I played I was ordained an agent of chaos by a bunch of stiffs
I've been on the funwagon for a while, friend.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 08:58:35 pm
you gotta let me out
let the beast goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 08:59:24 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 23, 2022, 09:00:48 pm
Tricmagic.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 23, 2022, 09:02:26 pm
Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack
you gotta let me out
let the beast goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Big hat thief is servant to no man.
Release the demon.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:02:42 pm
Wait what? Where is this Tric case coming from? I don't understand. Why vote Tric now?We're disgruntled Max fans who don't want the guy to die.
Too many posts again. You folks gotta learn how to take it easy, SMH. Well I probably can't read that many posts and then have time to talk things through, so I'll guess at what's going on.First you vote Max without reading the thread, now Tric?
Tricmagic.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 23, 2022, 09:03:28 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 09:04:33 pm
I would prefer Max not die as well, but that's why you're voting not Max. I don't mind you voting not Max. But why vote Tric in particular?Wait what? Where is this Tric case coming from? I don't understand. Why vote Tric now?We're disgruntled Max fans who don't want the guy to die.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 09:08:32 pm
I have an ability to steal a player's action, which I plan on using on Tric. To me, that will prove Tric's alignment, which I'm reasonably sure is Town.
DO NOT LYNCH TRIC!!!!!!! >:( >:(
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 09:08:56 pm
:wowee: :wowee: :wowee:
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 09:10:33 pm
Egan_BWOkay, would the masons like to share what's going on here?
:wowee: :wowee: :wowee:
Post by: Vector on September 23, 2022, 09:10:52 pm
DO NOT LYNCH TRIC!!!!!!! >:( >:(
Sorry, we're not keeping him alive just so you can have his hat.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 09:11:19 pm
Wait what? Where is this Tric case coming from? I don't understand. Why vote Tric now?
Well my particular quibble is that Tric changed his case on Maximum Spin and if I'm reading him correctly he's suggesting Maximum Spin is a third party.
Town win condition only mentions eliminating Evil players. Third parties are irrelevant for evaluating the town win condition so there's no reason to lynch anybody for being third party. I understand there may be very good practical reasons to vote third parties out, e.g., they're SKs, but no evidence of hostile third parties has yet to present itself.
People prevaricating about their cases but in ways that lets them keep their vote in a convenient place is classic scum voting pattern, and by classic scum voting patterns I mean things I've probably done or thought about doing while scum.
DO NOT LYNCH TRIC!!!!!!! >:( >:(
Then who?
Not feeling hector13 that much.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 09:13:31 pm
Wait what? Where is this Tric case coming from? I don't understand. Why vote Tric now?
Well my particular quibble is that Tric changed his case on Maximum Spin and if I'm reading him correctly he's suggesting Maximum Spin is a third party.
Town win condition only mentions eliminating Evil players. Third parties are irrelevant for evaluating the town win condition so there's no reason to lynch anybody for being third party. I understand there may be very good practical reasons to vote third parties out, e.g., they're SKs, but no evidence of hostile third parties has yet to present itself.
People prevaricating about their cases but in ways that lets them keep their vote in a convenient place is classic scum voting pattern, and by classic scum voting patterns I mean things I've probably done or thought about doing while scum.
ToonyMan's also done work on TricMagic which I've found convincing but don't have adequate enough command of his case to regurgitate at the moment.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 23, 2022, 09:14:48 pm
I have a sneaking suspicion that this won’t end well, but whatever
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 23, 2022, 09:16:29 pm
I have an ability to steal a player's action, which I plan on using on Tric. To me, that will prove Tric's alignment, which I'm reasonably sure is Town.Steal as in actually steal, or copy?
I can give you a pretty good action, but I'd be worried about you up and dying with it.
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 09:16:46 pm
I agree with not lynching Max, so I am honestly tempted to follow this weird rapid wagon, but weird is weird, so I'm calling it weird.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 23, 2022, 09:17:06 pm
DO NOT LYNCH TRIC!!!!!!! >:( >:(
Then who?
Not feeling hector13 that much.
You could always elim me for being useless even though I'm very clearly town. That's what you wanna do, right?
Post by: Mamobo on September 23, 2022, 09:17:26 pm
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 3 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
TricMagic - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410717#msg8410717),
hector13 - 2 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605),
notquitethere - 2 - Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410214#msg8410214), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048),
Egan_BW - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410726#msg8410726),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 42 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 09:17:39 pm
We’re voting Tric now?Whatever alignment Tric is this is likely the opposite.
I have a sneaking suspicion that this won’t end well, but whatever
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 09:22:28 pm
You could always elim me for being useless even though I'm very clearly town. That's what you wanna do, right?
Goddamn you have low self esteem.
No, I don't want to lynch you even though you're tempting me with the reasons you're mentioning.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 23, 2022, 09:25:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:27:30 pm
Fuck the Tric Lynch.Why are you sure you'll steal something that means Tric is town?
I have an ability to steal a player's action, which I plan on using on Tric. To me, that will prove Tric's alignment, which I'm reasonably sure is Town.
DO NOT LYNCH TRIC!!!!!!! >:( >:(
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:31:13 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 09:35:15 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:35:27 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:36:23 pm
Why are people cool with a tie?I am not cool. I'm voting Tric before day end if nothing changes, sorry Jack.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 09:38:35 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 23, 2022, 09:38:54 pm
Why are people cool with a tie?I'm not cool with a tie but I don't feel comfortable voting just to save myself after everything.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 09:45:36 pm
I have an ability to steal a player's action, which I plan on using on Tric. To me, that will prove Tric's alignment, which I'm reasonably sure is Town.Steal as in actually steal, or copy?
I can give you a pretty good action, but I'd be worried about you up and dying with it.
Not steal, COPY. Sorry about that, my role is Thief, so thematically it's called Mind Steal or something, but it's actually copy.
So yeah, I would prefer to copy Tric's action, but anyone else think they got something cool they're going to use, let me know.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 23, 2022, 09:47:12 pm
You should totally take this then. It'll be good to have two of it. I plan to use it tonight if I don't get, you know, strung up.I have an ability to steal a player's action, which I plan on using on Tric. To me, that will prove Tric's alignment, which I'm reasonably sure is Town.Steal as in actually steal, or copy?
I can give you a pretty good action, but I'd be worried about you up and dying with it.
Not steal, COPY. Sorry about that, my role is Thief, so thematically it's called Mind Steal or something, but it's actually copy.
So yeah, I would prefer to copy Tric's action, but anyone else think they got something cool they're going to use, let me know.
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 09:47:58 pm
Why is Tric a candidate anyway?
Post by: Mamobo on September 23, 2022, 09:49:15 pm
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 3 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
TricMagic - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410717#msg8410717),
hector13 - 2 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605),
notquitethere - 2 - Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410214#msg8410214), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048),
Egan_BW - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410726#msg8410726),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 10 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 09:51:52 pm
@Toony: Did you get stuck as Mason Chat liason again? That sucked when you had like 3 chats plus the forum going.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 23, 2022, 09:52:50 pm
@Toony: Vote hector13
Tie solved
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 09:53:08 pm
Post by: Mamobo on September 23, 2022, 09:53:28 pm
------------------------
->hector13 - 3 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410759#msg8410759),
->Maximum Spin - 3 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
->TricMagic - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410717#msg8410717),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048),
Egan_BW - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410726#msg8410726),
notquitethere - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 6 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 09:54:07 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2022, 09:54:11 pm
Spoiler: Everybody waiting for the tie to be broken (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:54:15 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:55:24 pm
What you gonna do Hector?
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 09:56:13 pm
Excuse me?I think Tric is town, and Max's alignment is almost certainly not Evil, and to me you're fairly null. Also, I think Toony is town, and that he has information I don't. So I'm leaving the final call in his hands.
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 09:56:42 pm
Town’s weapon though guys.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:56:44 pm
@Max: Vote hector13
@Toony: Vote hector13
Tie solved
Hector: Toony, make your decision.I can't vote Hector like this. I haven't even interacted with them heavily D1.
Post by: Mamobo on September 23, 2022, 09:57:16 pm
------------------------
-> hector13 - 3 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410759#msg8410759),
-> Maximum Spin - 3 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
-> TricMagic - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410717#msg8410717),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048),
Egan_BW - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410726#msg8410726),
notquitethere - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 2 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Post by: hector13 on September 23, 2022, 09:57:20 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 09:57:23 pm
Then don't, and instead vote who you think is scum.@Max: Vote hector13
@Toony: Vote hector13
Tie solvedHector: Toony, make your decision.I can't vote Hector like this. I haven't even interacted with them heavily D1.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 09:58:16 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 23, 2022, 09:58:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2022, 09:58:35 pm
TricMagic
Post by: Mamobo on September 23, 2022, 09:58:52 pm
------------------------
-> TricMagic - 4 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410717#msg8410717), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410774#msg8410774),
hector13 - 3 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410759#msg8410759),
Maximum Spin - 3 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
Egan_BW - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410726#msg8410726),
notquitethere - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
4maskwolf - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 1 minute remaining.)
Post by: Lenglon on September 23, 2022, 09:58:55 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 09:59:00 pm
Call it a gamestate read.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 23, 2022, 09:59:31 pm
Post by: Mamobo on September 23, 2022, 09:59:55 pm
------------------------
-> TricMagic - 5 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410717#msg8410717), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410774#msg8410774), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410776#msg8410776),
Maximum Spin - 3 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
hector13 - 2 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605),
notquitethere - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
Vector - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410778#msg8410778),
4maskwolf - 0 -
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 0 minutes remaining.)
Post by: webadict on September 23, 2022, 10:00:11 pm
Post by: webadict on September 23, 2022, 10:26:55 pm
You feel as though maybe you are all part of a trance, one that turns you towards TricMagic. He nods, helpless, approaching as the Warden you always expected him to be, a fearless Guard through and through. He steps up towards the blazing inferno, unafraid.
And The Elder pushes him in.
In the span of a second, TricMagic’s body enters the star and falls out the other side, his body steaming. Some of the Children turn off the device and transport it safely away.
“He has been purified.” The Elder speaks, beaming at the twelve remaining souls here. “Let us now rejoice.” You tried to eat, but your appetite simply wasn’t there.
As you all head back to your lodging, there is a slight change in plans. You’re not entirely sure whose plan it is, but there is talk of hector13 and Persus13 being sacrificed tonight. ‘We could lock them from their lodgings.’ ‘The monsters could feed on them.’ ‘They probably deserve it.’
Those astute among you may recognize that a spell has been cast, but its effects still take hold of you anyway. It will not happen again.
The night falls.
Vote Count
------------------------
-> TricMagic - 5 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410717#msg8410717), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410774#msg8410774), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410776#msg8410776),
Maximum Spin - 3 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
hector13 - 2 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605),
notquitethere - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
Vector - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410778#msg8410778),
4maskwolf - 0 -
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 Central Daylight Time
TricMagic has been executed.
TricMagic was a Warden (Good).
Kill Actions may only target hector13 and Persus13 until the end of the Night.
It is now Night. Night ends on September 25, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time or when all Actions are received. If you wish to use no Action, please send a PM stating as such.
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2022, 12:46:35 pm
“Splendid, Children! Splendid! You’ve found one of the evil monsters!” They move towards the body, and you finally get a proper view.
Persus13’s body looks more alien than the Persus13 you remember. His features are longer, distorted as if stretched to fit someone taller and leaner. You see that his belly has been cut open and several organs and what appear to be feathers and wings have been arranged–meticulously, you might add–in a circle around him in what appears to be some type of ritual sacrifice.
The Elder nudges the scene with Their feet, speaking as They do. “Yes, an Archon. A Magistrate at that, the strongest of Mystics. Truly a being of immense strength and power. It wishes to rule over those it sees as inferior, which is, well, everyone.” The Elder pauses a moment before adding. “It is a real shame that they could not have seen the Burning Sun.”
The Elder leaves as several Children clean up the scene, moving the body towards a makeshift graveyard on the grounds, presumably with TricMagic's body, as well.
After breakfast, you exit the Main Hall to see the Burning Sun once more, and prepare to find more monsters.
Persus13 has been killed.
Persus13 was an Archon Magistrate (Evil).
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
Egan_BW - 0 -
EuchreJack - 0 -
hector13 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Maximum Spin - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 11 - 4maskwolf, Egan_BW, EuchreJack, hector13, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64, Lenglon, Maximum Spin, notquitethere, ToonyMan, Vector,
6 to Hammer. Day ends on September 28, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~79 hours remaining).
It is now Day.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 12:52:34 pm
Max: did you change me last night? I'm not really a fan of the new look.
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2022, 01:27:18 pm
I'm in two minds whether the vig should claim the Persus kill (good job btw)— if it even is a vig. Anyone recognise the kill description?
Lenglon, why empower Max?????
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 01:28:30 pm
This went way better then I expected or hoped. Sweet
One evil done
? To go
Alls well that ends well, sad about Tric. I knew he was acting too scummy to actually be scum
Post by: Persus13 on September 25, 2022, 01:30:35 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 01:31:49 pm
Lenglon, why empower Max?????I didn't empower Max. I ensured Max didn't change alignment. These aren't even related.
So why didn't you claim your monster abilities yesterday NQT?
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 01:33:09 pm
Was there an attempt on hector13?
Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had.
Hmmmm.
Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.
Are you still honoring your post restriction for Day 2?
I went to bed last night with a good candidate for lynching and woke up to see you lot shifted onto Tric instead. Anyone want to explain why?
Didn't want to see Max lynched.
Anyone recognise the kill description?
Negative. Rituals are bad news though.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 01:33:17 pm
Sounds like a cult leader type of thing.
And yes, I know you cannot answer
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 01:34:27 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 01:35:12 pm
My prediction was that Persus would die and that Hector was actually town so this is completely not what I expected.
Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.I am extremely suspicious of NQT for not claiming they have an ability with a monster tag.
Didn't feel like doing that after Lenglon and Max did?
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 01:36:19 pm
The change I experienced last night removed that restriction apparently, but I'm currently still honoring it on the off-chance that it's a temporary change, because I do not like this new look. amongst other things, I can't ensure Max doesn't change alignment in following nights right now.Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.Are you still honoring your post restriction for Day 2?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 01:38:48 pm
I'm in two minds whether the vig should claim the Persus kill (good job btw)— if it even is a vig. Anyone recognise the kill description?I'm kind of suspicious of the kill as I don't believe it was a vig, or at least, not town.
I'm relatively confident town didn't kill Persus.
I'm also not sure what happened to the actual mafia kill unless both Hector and Persus are mafia, which I don't really believe.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 01:40:02 pm
My prediction was that Persus would die and that Hector was actually town so this is completely not what I expected.Persus would die and flip town*
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2022, 01:41:06 pm
Lenglon, There are likely scum abilities that are running off of monster tags, less info I give scum on that the better. But look, if I'm totally honest, I missed the tag on that ability right at the start of the game, and I assumed monster tags would necessarily be werebear type stuff being monstrous, when it's clear to me now that that's not the case. Like, the ability and my role in general is clearly not monstrous. Quite the opposite.
--
Also, I said before that my comprehension was bad recently with a cold, but today I actually tested positive for covid for the first time. Feeling headachey but mostly okay. Not telling everyone this just to evince sympathy but just that please don't expect me to go my full above and beyond like usual. First person demanding a chart gets voted.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 01:43:54 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 01:52:29 pm
The change I experienced last night removed that restriction apparently, but I'm currently still honoring it on the off-chance that it's a temporary change, because I do not like this new look. amongst other things, I can't ensure Max doesn't change alignment in following nights right now.Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.Are you still honoring your post restriction for Day 2?
I appreciate the disclosure but do I need to lynch you and/or Maximum Spin?
Could it also be that the mafia killed Persus who is just an Evil third-party here?
I asked webadict what the Evil win condition was during D1. It's to equal or outnumber the remaining players, so all players with the Evil win condition are on the same time. It would be Evil on Evil friendly fire if that was the case. I guess it's technically possible but it would be a very oddly structured setup if that was the case.
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2022, 01:55:42 pm
Spoiler: Day 1 Vote Tracker (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 01:55:59 pm
That is good to know, thank you.Could it also be that the mafia killed Persus who is just an Evil third-party here?I asked webadict what the Evil win condition was during D1. It's to equal or outnumber the remaining players, so all players with the Evil win condition are on the same time. It would be Evil on Evil friendly fire if that was the case. I guess it's technically possible but it would be a very oddly structured setup if that was the case.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 01:57:51 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 02:05:47 pm
Yeah, this looks like Mason Chat.I'm not a mason. I'm also not in any group chats.
@Toony: Did you get stuck as Mason Chat liason again? That sucked when you had like 3 chats plus the forum going.
I performed an action last night, but it's not worth claiming right now.
I'm curious if anybody targeted me last night.
Looking at the Tric wagon I like Vector and Egan's votes the least.
I can't tell if 4mask is Good, but they responded to me questions well enough and I want to look at players I didn't focus on that were like Persus (who was Evil).
This includes Vector, Egan, Hector, and also NQT after Lenglon's claim. I still will keep note of 4mask.
Back by popular demand...On D1 Evil!Persus voted Tric, then Knightwing, then Hector.Spoiler: Day 1 Vote Tracker (click to show/hide)
I think this will be helpful.
Post by: Vector on September 25, 2022, 02:41:46 pm
I'm surprised that Tric was town; I guess the meta has changed since the last time I played here. I want to go back and do a reread to check interactions for Persus in a bit. Feeling quite a lot better today, at least for now.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 02:48:35 pm
FYI: I'm the person who restricted kills to Hector and Persus. I can't do it again.Thanks for claiming. I was going to ask who did that, but I forgot.
I think that whoever restricted it to Hector/Persus gets town points.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 02:50:55 pm
N0 Webadict:
It was a gruesome sight. The body was charred black, disintegrated to ashes, and as The Elder identifies the remains, They click Their tongue and make a protective motion. And, on the Eve of the Burning Sun, too.
N1 Persus:
Persus13’s body looks more alien than the Persus13 you remember. His features are longer, distorted as if stretched to fit someone taller and leaner. You see that his belly has been cut open and several organs and what appear to be feathers and wings have been arranged–meticulously, you might add–in a circle around him in what appears to be some type of ritual sacrifice.
These don't look like the same kill methods to me.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 02:53:35 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 03:14:16 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 03:17:27 pm
claim: The role I was changed into was yet another Monster role
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 03:22:32 pm
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2022, 04:16:37 pm
Cult - 4/11 previous games
Cults can either be charismatic cults (i.e. what we usually mean by the term "cult" in mafia) but they can also be ritual killers and act like a regular mafia team with a kill power. Cultist have normal town roles as well, but depending which kind of cult, they'll also may have one of the following:
Charismatic Cultist - Converts people into the cult
Cult Leader - Appears as town on inspections
Or it could be like the magic brotherhood, and possibly related to the alleged evil witch (though the only source we have on that is Max). Necromancers and Dark Magus might also do things with sacrifices.
Could there be a neutral or good sacrifice? Quite possibly! As you can see form the OP, the setting of this game is inverted. In the backstory of this game, we (town) are all benign cultists:
“We are under attack. An Evil force has infiltrated our midst.” The Elder turned toward the remaining Cultists, moving Their gaze between those present.
So I wouldn't be surprised if a town vig kill would have a cult-like description.
Vector, good job, but why Hector and Persus?
Max, why did you lie yesterday when you said you were against lies?
4mask and EJ what was going on with your vote switches at the end of the day?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 25, 2022, 04:24:12 pm
I didn't touch Lenglon in any way. I roleblocked notquitethere. EuchreJack can hopefully confirm my action, which, incidentally, is pretty obviously towny.Well, it's not Mafia, since on a certain night, it stops the Mafia Night Kill and reveals the Mafia's target.
So we Don't Lynch Max. We don't want another Tric fiasco.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 04:26:07 pm
I was looking at the "confirmed" kills so far and they don't match.
N0 Webadict:It was a gruesome sight. The body was charred black, disintegrated to ashes, and as The Elder identifies the remains, They click Their tongue and make a protective motion. And, on the Eve of the Burning Sun, too.
N1 Persus:Persus13’s body looks more alien than the Persus13 you remember. His features are longer, distorted as if stretched to fit someone taller and leaner. You see that his belly has been cut open and several organs and what appear to be feathers and wings have been arranged–meticulously, you might add–in a circle around him in what appears to be some type of ritual sacrifice.
These don't look like the same kill methods to me.
Yes, my role flavor implied that "webadict" was killed by the Burning Sun, or at least some similar method. Compare the flavor in the OP with the flavor for Tric's elimination.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 04:30:21 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 04:31:33 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 25, 2022, 04:31:57 pm
Could it also be that the mafia killed Persus who is just an Evil third-party here?
I don’t like the way Lenglon was acting around Max’s slot on D1, suggesting he was a third-party out of nowhere, then adding another person into the tie near day end which included Max. Questions would arise in a two-way tie over why the survivor wasn’t killed, putting Max under the spotlight during the night and next day, less so in a 3-way tie. You telegraphed that you were going to vote Tric, but Tric was being townread by lots of people so there’s no guarantee they accept a Tric lynch so easily and not just tie the votes up again.
Now she seems bothered that NQT has monster tags, even though she claimed monster tags as Neutral, and Max claimed monster tags and she thinks he’s a survivor, so I’m not sure why NQT’s unclaimed monster tags are such a bother, except possibly in light of 4mask’s claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409145#msg8409145) he interacts with scum monster abilities in some way. Given that at least Lenglon was townread by 4mask for claiming that, there’s no reason for scum!NQT with monster tags not to claim to get town-cred, but that’s a bit WIFOM.
Given the kill flavour, I’m at least convinced it wasn’t a monster type kill, but scum died soooo… yeah.
Absolutely not happy about EJ’s vote, and also not sure why Vector acknowledged Tric’s meta of acting scummy as town, which is exactly what he was doing, and was voting him anyway.
Equally so, Jim thinking Max wasn’t scum because of his meta, despite all the inconsistencies in Max’s behaviour, but was happy to vote Tric despite him following his own town meta.
PPE: should probably post piecemeal instead of trying to get all my thoughts in one post, there’s a lot to posts I haven’t read.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 04:36:25 pm
Max, why did you lie yesterday when you said you were against lies?This is an incredibly stupid question.
I've never been against lies, judiciously used. I've used them to excellent effect because I usually stay mostly truthful.
I just lied when I said I was against lies.
This shouldn't be surprising.
But what else do you think I lied about?
Anyway, if we take it as a given that Evil didn't kill Persus13, then there was no mafiakill tonight and nqt was roleblocked. That said, I've been on the other side of that exact setup, wrongly, in MVM3 round 5, so I'm not going to argue that it's more than just suggestive. There are a lot of other people I have concerns about.
Post by: Vector on September 25, 2022, 04:39:03 pm
Vector, good job, but why Hector and Persus?
I wanted one person who I was completely fine with dying (was originally Tric but I switched last minute to Persus) and one person who I thought would be appetizing for the scumteam in case we have a watcher (originally Toony but I decided that was too appetizing and I preferred to protect him, switched to Hector).
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2022, 04:43:31 pm
I just lied when I said I was against lies.It's surprising to me. What you seem to be saying is you lied about being against lies so you wouldn't telegraph the lies you intended to make. But the lies you clearly made, about your reasons for voting, made absolutely no sense.
This shouldn't be surprising.
I can see your reasoning. If that's what happened, then I wonder if someone protected Hector?Vector, good job, but why Hector and Persus?
I wanted one person who I was completely fine with dying (was originally Tric but I switched last minute to Persus) and one person who I thought would be appetizing for the scumteam in case we have a watcher (originally Toony but I decided that was too appetizing and I preferred to protect him, switched to Hector).
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 04:44:00 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 04:45:29 pm
Tric is a kinda iffy choice but If you die next night up you won’t have a chance to use it, so you might as well.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 25, 2022, 04:45:38 pm
Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.
Max: did you change me last night? I'm not really a fan of the new look.
I'm still unsure what this means. I got TWO abilities last night.
One that Max claimed, and another one. They both have the Monster tag.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 04:47:09 pm
Alright, I have a day revive power. Gonna use it on Tric right now.
I kind of hope you don't, honestly. Revives have dubious utility in Supernatural games.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 04:48:16 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 04:49:45 pm
Alright, I have a day revive power. Gonna use it on Tric right now.
I kind of hope you don't, honestly. Revives have dubious utility in Supernatural games.
And just so that it's clear what I'm referring to, in previous Supernaturals revives have created hostile third parties, and not even rarely.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 04:50:39 pm
It's surprising to me. What you seem to be saying is you lied about being against lies so you wouldn't telegraph the lies you intended to make.No, I lied about being against lies because I found it funny. And I've used exactly the same arbitrary assertion to justify a vote before (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179514.msg8351929#msg8351929) (he was scum, I was right). It's part of my canon.
The one that blocks the mafiakill was mine. Whatever other one you must have got from NQT. You should describe it.Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.
Max: did you change me last night? I'm not really a fan of the new look.
I'm still unsure what this means. I got TWO abilities last night.
One that Max claimed, and another one. They both have the Monster tag.
Egan_BW, no, don't do that
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 04:51:16 pm
I’m the Summoner. Everyone accept my deals, I’m going to hand out powers to town.
The souls I get from you accepting the deal let’s me kill everyone whose soul I have when I get to three or more. Given that I’m planning to give these deals to town, of which I am, I’m obviously not going to.
Post by: hector13 on September 25, 2022, 04:52:09 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 04:53:28 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 04:54:44 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 04:55:14 pm
I literally already told you guys that the Summoner is evil (although not Evil but a third-party, but definitely a bad guy).
So let's get this out of the way now.
I mean, Knightwing, I know for a fact that your alignment isn't Good. It's listed in my role.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 04:56:51 pm
Speaking of devil deals, I might as well reveal myself, given it would be better if everyone accepted my deals.
I’m the Summoner. Everyone accept my deals, I’m going to hand out powers to town.
Now this is marketing!
The souls I get from you accepting the deal let’s me kill everyone whose soul I have when I get to three or more. Given that I’m planning to give these deals to town, of which I am, I’m obviously not going to.
I'm skeptical you're actually Good (with a capital G) given that you trade in souls and Devils have been third parties in previous Supernaturals.
Uh. Knightwing64 then.
I literally already told you guys that the Summoner is evil (although not Evil but a third-party, but definitely a bad guy).
So let's get this out of the way now.
I mean, Knightwing, I know for a fact that your alignment isn't Good. It's listed in my role.
*shrug*
My win condition doesn't say I have to eliminate evil (with a lower case e) players.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 04:56:54 pm
No no it's okay. You were obviously not with mafia so I just find it hilarious you casually outted yourself as the Devil. Hail Satan.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 04:57:22 pm
So what are you talking about?
Post by: hector13 on September 25, 2022, 04:58:06 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 04:58:33 pm
Huh.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 04:58:47 pm
Nope. I’m town. My role name is summoner and the flavor states that I am a former witch.
So what are you talking about?
What does your win condition say?
Post by: hector13 on September 25, 2022, 04:59:11 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 04:59:21 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:00:25 pm
Nope. I’m town. My role name is summoner and the flavor states that I am a former witch.
So what are you talking about?
What does your win condition say?
“ You are a Summoner (Good). You win when all Evil Players are removed from the game, and there is at least one Good Player alive.”
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 05:01:40 pm
We have a Good Devil!
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 05:02:46 pm
So I’m expected expected to believe that Lenglon is Neutral, town-ally, who seems to think Max is Neutral, survivor, who seems to think KW is Neutral, baddie.To be fair, Lenglon's wrong.
I don't think KW is lying.I know KW is lying. He's an SK. webadict usually gives out the town wincon anyway.
We have a Good Devil!
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:04:21 pm
I know Jack accepted my deal for power, because it sent me a message that he did.
Edit: Seriously, Max? Either you are evil, or your role lied to you. Both of which is bad news.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 05:06:12 pm
Given your reactions, I feel like I have made a misplay.Yes, yes you have. You needed to either claim this yesterday in response to Max's claim, or to not claim it at all.
Jack: whatever the ability was that you did not get from Max, is the one I copied to you from NQT.
Hector: Evil are monsters, Max and I claimed D1, as Millers should. Max claimed to be convertible, and combined with the Miller claim, I believed him to be Not Evil. I was able to counter him being convertable as well, and intended to do so, so I did so. As a rule of thumb, Millers and others with penalties built into their role get bonuses to compensate, so keeping Max around had the potential to pay off greatly. NQT on the other hand seemed suspicious to me D1, so I checked him for unclaimed monster abilities using my copying tool. It was successful, so NQT had a Monster ability to copy. He did not claim it, Evil are monsters, therefore NQT is Evil. And so I naturally voted him and made public this information as my first post of the day. Why are you chainsawing for him?
webadict usually gives out the town wincon anyway.I can verify that as a Neutral I got informed of the Good wincon. It's why I knew we had the same wincon despite being different alignments.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 05:06:34 pm
If Knightwing is lying he outted himself as Devil so that he could...die? What would an Evil!Knightwing gain here?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:06:51 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 05:06:59 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 05:07:53 pm
Is Jim claiming Neutral too?
No, there's a distinction between Evil (with a capital E) that I do need to eliminate and evil (with a lower case e) i.e. third parties that I don't. My win condition says nothing about eliminating third parties.
I know KW is lying. He's an SK. webadict usually gives out the town wincon anyway.
Are you a third party that needs to kill Knightwing64?
Does Knightwing64 have a role that promotes into an SK after contracting with you?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:08:15 pm
I didn’t directly quote it, so I think I’m good. I mean, I could be lying and just pulling shit out my ass
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 05:08:56 pm
Uuuh??It looks like he's hoping to get people to accept his deals by pretending to be town and promising he won't kill them. Which is totally within his Demon Mafia behavior envelope.
If Knightwing is lying he outted himself as Devil so that he could...die? What would an Evil!Knightwing gain here?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 05:09:30 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:10:39 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 05:11:35 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:11:43 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 05:12:48 pm
Umm, does what Knightwing just did break the "quoting the mod without permission" rule?They were "soft quotes" so it's probably fine?
We all know bigbrain KW could fake their role.
@Max:
Is KW the one that will cause problems if they reach out to you?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 05:13:31 pm
@Max:Yes. "Summoner" is the exact role name listed.
Is KW the one that will cause problems if they reach out to you?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 05:14:10 pm
I should say, unless KW is somehow in contact with the real Summoner and acting as a dupe, but I don't think that's likely?@Max:Yes. "Summoner" is the exact role name listed.
Is KW the one that will cause problems if they reach out to you?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 05:14:18 pm
If I was planning on killing people, why would I even say I could kill them? I could just say I win after I collect like 3 souls.We know how Devils work from past games.
Supernatural 4 had a Devil kill many players and then leave the game.
Web is subverting it a bit here by having you be Good.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:15:02 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 05:16:10 pm
This is a very simple solution.@Max:Yes. "Summoner" is the exact role name listed.
Is KW the one that will cause problems if they reach out to you?
KW, you did not contact Max, but Jack, on N1. I'm going to assume this is because you do not wish to contact Max. Is this true? Can you promise not to give a Devil deal to Max?
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2022, 05:16:52 pm
Max claimed to be convertible on D1. I reflected on it in the night and assumed maybe he was doing that as a trap, but evidently not.
Lenglon, "monster" tag on a power and "evil" alignment have no relationship. My role is not a monster role (like were creature, demon etc). EJ can confirm it has nothing obviously monstrous, the tag must just be there for role interaction and WIFOM.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:19:25 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 05:19:44 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 05:21:29 pm
Lenglon, "monster" tag on a power and "evil" alignment have no relationship. My role is not a monster role (like were creature, demon etc). EJ can confirm it has nothing obviously monstrous, the tag must just be there for role interaction and WIFOM.Is it true the only reason you didn't claim you had a monster tag on an ability is because you forgot?
Sure? I mean, I didn’t purposefully not pick Max, there was nothing that said it would be a bad idea, choosing Jack was a random idea.Did you pick Jack because you felt they were most likely town?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 05:22:10 pm
Web is subverting it a bit here by having you be Good.Knightwing is not Good. I know this for a fact.
Look, based on the fact that you claimed to townread him early while he was acting more like his scum self, I'm guessing you're probably also a witch and in a neighborhood with him, right? But while you may think you are Masons, you're not actually. He's a ringer.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 05:23:54 pm
Serial Killers are capital E Evil and we can't win of they are still alive. If KW is claiming the Evil Witch role Max forewarned about then either KW is Evil or Max is, no?I admit I didn't clear this with web, I just assumed that only mafia are Evil and SKs are 3p. So I may have been wrong to say he's a 3p.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 05:25:33 pm
Why didn't KW contact you on N1? He looks extremely bumbling here.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 05:27:02 pm
@Max:I have no idea, but he could be, sometimes he makes silly decisions. Also, somebody - was it Tric? I don't remember - suggested that I might have been setting a trap, so he could have been afraid of that.
Why didn't KW contact you on N1? He looks extremely bumbling here.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 05:27:13 pm
I'm not a witch.Web is subverting it a bit here by having you be Good.Knightwing is not Good. I know this for a fact.
Look, based on the fact that you claimed to townread him early while he was acting more like his scum self, I'm guessing you're probably also a witch and in a neighborhood with him, right? But while you may think you are Masons, you're not actually. He's a ringer.
I don't specialize in any magic.
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2022, 05:31:13 pm
Kinda. When Max and Lenglon were claiming monster power, I didn't even notice that tag on my own power. That's why I speculated that Lenglon might be a were creature. I only noticed during the night when I looked at my PM again to see what I wanted to do.Lenglon, "monster" tag on a power and "evil" alignment have no relationship. My role is not a monster role (like were creature, demon etc). EJ can confirm it has nothing obviously monstrous, the tag must just be there for role interaction and WIFOM.Is it true the only reason you didn't claim you had a monster tag on an ability is because you forgot?
But I haven't and won't unnecessarily claim the tags on any of my powers. That doesn't help town, it just helps malicious actors who may have power interactions.
Lenglon thinks she's being clever here but is being super obtuse (she isn't actually Town, so maybe this is deliberate).
Post by: EuchreJack on September 25, 2022, 05:35:48 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 25, 2022, 05:43:06 pm
Given your reactions, I feel like I have made a misplay.Yes, yes you have. You needed to either claim this yesterday in response to Max's claim, or to not claim it at all.
Jack: whatever the ability was that you did not get from Max, is the one I copied to you from NQT.
Hector: Evil are monsters, Max and I claimed D1, as Millers should. Max claimed to be convertible, and combined with the Miller claim, I believed him to be Not Evil. I was able to counter him being convertable as well, and intended to do so, so I did so. As a rule of thumb, Millers and others with penalties built into their role get bonuses to compensate, so keeping Max around had the potential to pay off greatly. NQT on the other hand seemed suspicious to me D1, so I checked him for unclaimed monster abilities using my copying tool. It was successful, so NQT had a Monster ability to copy. He did not claim it, Evil are monsters, therefore NQT is Evil. And so I naturally voted him and made public this information as my first post of the day. Why are you chainsawing for him?
Possibly because I trust you about as far as I can throw you, like I said on D1, plus the weird shit you did at the end of D1, the oddly coordinated behaviour between you and Max already on D2, plus your completely changed role which is still conveniently a Miller?
For a town-ally you’re not doing much to engender trust here. Like, you overtly say you think Max is survivor yesterday, and think his consequent super-powers from him being a Miller will be beneficial to town, even though if he is a survivor, he doesn’t have the same wincon as town, also knowing he has claimed to be able to be converted by an evil (or Evil) witch, which he announced in the game thread to everyone?
It’s utter madness. Do you not think that you having had knowledge of Max’s ability to be converted would mean he or the evil (or Evil) witch has some means to counter that, as you say penalty roles get compensatory powers? I don’t understand your apparent analytical strength not being applied equally across the theoretical - “rules of thumb” - and the reality of what you know in the game.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 25, 2022, 05:44:52 pm
Last night I overwrote her existing monster abilities to give her a one-shot jailkeep. If she's actually aligned with the town she can still act to our benefit, but if she isn't then I may have just ripped away a dangerous ability from an anti-town player.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 05:46:34 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 05:52:32 pm
also: 4mask: I understand how you missed me asking you this earlier, but what was your last-second vote of Vector yesterday about?
Post by: Vector on September 25, 2022, 05:53:20 pm
I can see your reasoning. If that's what happened, then I wonder if someone protected Hector?Vector, good job, but why Hector and Persus?
I wanted one person who I was completely fine with dying (was originally Tric but I switched last minute to Persus) and one person who I thought would be appetizing for the scumteam in case we have a watcher (originally Toony but I decided that was too appetizing and I preferred to protect him, switched to Hector).
This rings my bells as docfishing. NQT.
Another option, of course, is that Hector is scum.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 05:55:25 pm
Max, how would I be able to convince you I’m town? You threw a witch accusation at Toony for the reasonable assumption that I was too stupid to fake my role. Which doesn’t even make any sense if you suspect me of being a evil witch, why would there be 2 evil witches?
Someone tell me why I shouldn’t listen to my inner voice and vote Max?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 05:59:32 pm
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2022, 06:00:18 pm
------------------------
-> notquitethere --2-- Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411160#msg8411160), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411342#msg8411342),
Knightwing64 --1-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411285#msg8411285),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411259#msg8411259),
4maskwolf --0--
Egan_BW --0--
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Jim Groovester --0--
Lenglon --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --7-- 4maskwolf, Egan_BW, EuchreJack, hector13, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64, ToonyMan,
6 to Hammer. Day ends on September 28, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~74 hours remaining).
Feedback requested: I'm just trying to increase visual clarity. Is this easier for people to read?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:02:49 pm
I didn't target NQT or 4mask last night like I said I would.
I tracked Vector last night and they didn't go anywhere. In other words, they couldn't have killed Persus. My exact results were that my action suceeded and that they targeted no one.
I don't think there's any reason unless you wanna make a case on someone else. Either Max fails at reading or one of you two is scum.I don't believe either are Evil. We aren't voting Max or KW.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:03:19 pm
Sure, you would be taking out a townie, but unless the town has collectively one brain cell all shared together, you would have one day left to live, tops.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 06:03:47 pm
Feedback requested: I'm just trying to increase visual clarity. Is this easier for people to read?It looks great. Very old-school BBS. In a good way.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 06:04:21 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 06:05:12 pm
Egan_BW, no, don't do that
You got any reason why voting me is gonna help when I've already made the action? That means that you think that I'm scum, doesn't it? Make a case then.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:05:52 pm
If you believe that I'm scum, you have to believe that EuchreJack is also scum. There's no middle ground available; either I willingly and openly gave EuchreJack an ability that prevents mafiakills (by using it), or we're both lying.Feedback requested: I'm just trying to increase visual clarity. Is this easier for people to read?It looks great. Very old-school BBS. In a good way.
Not really? You could’ve gave Jack and a ability as mafia and then loudly proclaimed it to make yourself seem more townie. There isn’t only two options there
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:06:42 pm
Egan_BW, no, don't do that
You got any reason why voting me is gonna help when I've already made the action? That means that you think that I'm scum, doesn't it? Make a case then.
I would’ve suggested you waited to revive someone like Toony, or Jim, or anybody who didn’t defend the guy who turned out evil, but you do you I guess
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:07:18 pm
So who killed Persus?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:08:05 pm
Tric's townreads may unironically help us find scum.
Egan_BW, no, don't do that
You got any reason why voting me is gonna help when I've already made the action? That means that you think that I'm scum, doesn't it? Make a case then.
I would’ve suggested you waited to revive someone like Toony, or Jim, or anybody who didn’t defend the guy who turned out evil, but you do you I guess
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 06:10:13 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:13:34 pm
You revived Tric… for a single day?
Excuse me, I need to smash my monitor
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 06:14:50 pm
Not really? You could’ve gave Jack and a ability as mafia and then loudly proclaimed it to make yourself seem more townie. There isn’t only two options thereThat's a half-assed justification and I expect better. Anything can be waved away as WIFOM after the fact, but why would I make this particular choice in that case? It was entirely voluntary, and there are plenty of ways to make myself look town, especially when I think Jack already townread me, without giving mafia an explicit Achilles heel. I even have other abilities I could have given him that don't block the mafiakill. I specifically gave a player I think is town a strongly town-positive ability, because I want to help town.
I think NQT is a reasonable vote, however they couldn't have killed Persus if Max roleblocked them.Persus being an angel - Archons are what D&D call angels so it can copyright them - makes me really curious about the composition of Evil here. I can SEE angels being "Monsters" for the purposes of the flavor I mentioned before, but the description in the start of day flavor makes him sound a little SKish too, so maybe, if NQT is right about SKs being Evil, this really was a mafia kill? How many third parties could there reasonably BE, though? Anyone have any suggestions from previous games?
So who killed Persus?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:16:36 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 06:19:48 pm
While I agree there is probably a third party, I only think there is one third party faction, and I’m not part of it. Thanks.There's already one admitted third party, Lenglon, so.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:19:55 pm
All right, I'm not planning to hang around the rest of the day, so I guess I might as well spill what I know. It's not much, but it might be helpful still.
There's a devil-summoning witch, the "Summoner", who has an ability called Devil Deal that I imagine is somehow related to the devil role someone mentioned a long time ago. There also seems to be a team of "Monsters".
The "Monsters" are only suggested in flavortext, but the witch is just about definite, because my role specifically reacts (badly) to the use of that ability, which would have effectively recruited me if it had hit. It's hard to imagine something that specific would be meant as a red herring.
Hmm. A Demon Summoner? Sounds coolHohoho
Also, if any of you have a bodyguard role, I would like it to be used on me due to my crippling fear of death
@Max:
If someone wants to claim slaying Evil Persus that would be great.
If no one claims then we can theorize that Evil killed Evil...but why?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:20:05 pm
Not really? You could’ve gave Jack and a ability as mafia and then loudly proclaimed it to make yourself seem more townie. There isn’t only two options thereThat's a half-assed justification and I expect better. Anything can be waved away as WIFOM after the fact, but why would I make this particular choice in that case? It was entirely voluntary, and there are plenty of ways to make myself look town, especially when I think Jack already townread me, without giving mafia an explicit Achilles heel. I even have other abilities I could have given him that don't block the mafiakill. I specifically gave a player I think is town a strongly town-positive ability, because I want to help town.I think NQT is a reasonable vote, however they couldn't have killed Persus if Max roleblocked them.Persus being an angel - Archons are what D&D call angels so it can copyright them - makes me really curious about the composition of Evil here. I can SEE angels being "Monsters" for the purposes of the flavor I mentioned before, but the description in the start of day flavor makes him sound a little SKish too, so maybe, if NQT is right about SKs being Evil, this really was a mafia kill? How many third parties could there reasonably BE, though? Anyone have any suggestions from previous games?
So who killed Persus?
Also, this is kinda irrelevant, But I thought the blanket term for angels in DND was celestial
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:21:47 pm
All right, I'm not planning to hang around the rest of the day, so I guess I might as well spill what I know. It's not much, but it might be helpful still.
There's a devil-summoning witch, the "Summoner", who has an ability called Devil Deal that I imagine is somehow related to the devil role someone mentioned a long time ago. There also seems to be a team of "Monsters".
The "Monsters" are only suggested in flavortext, but the witch is just about definite, because my role specifically reacts (badly) to the use of that ability, which would have effectively recruited me if it had hit. It's hard to imagine something that specific would be meant as a red herring.Hmm. A Demon Summoner? Sounds coolHohoho
Also, if any of you have a bodyguard role, I would like it to be used on me due to my crippling fear of death
@Max:
If someone wants to claim slaying Evil Persus that would be great.
If no one claims then we can theorize that Evil killed Evil...but why?
Yeah. I wanted to hold off on admitting I was a witch until I had at least one soul. Kinda a, don’t wanna get killed before I use my action type of thing.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:23:12 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 06:24:26 pm
I thought that at the time, too. :PAll right, I'm not planning to hang around the rest of the day, so I guess I might as well spill what I know. It's not much, but it might be helpful still.
There's a devil-summoning witch, the "Summoner", who has an ability called Devil Deal that I imagine is somehow related to the devil role someone mentioned a long time ago. There also seems to be a team of "Monsters".
The "Monsters" are only suggested in flavortext, but the witch is just about definite, because my role specifically reacts (badly) to the use of that ability, which would have effectively recruited me if it had hit. It's hard to imagine something that specific would be meant as a red herring.Hmm. A Demon Summoner? Sounds coolHohoho
Also, if any of you have a bodyguard role, I would like it to be used on me due to my crippling fear of death
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:26:01 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 06:26:41 pm
notquitethere -- unclaimed action, Roleblocked by Max
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- unclaimed action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (undisclosed).
hector13 -- unclaimed action
Jim Groovester -- unclaimed action
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- unclaimed action, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:27:01 pm
I do have a monster tag on my devilish deal ability, but I’m a townie overall, are you sure monster isn’t just a flair thing for abilities?It is. We have a number of players with monster tags who probably aren't Evil.
So from what I gathered, the most likely players to have killed Persus are:
Egan
Jack
Hector
Jim
Everyone else was doing something or couldn't do anything.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:27:42 pm
Oh you're right, Jack did an action.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 06:28:41 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 06:29:04 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:29:27 pm
Maybe Jim too I guess.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:31:12 pm
@Toony, I'm not interested in finding who killed the Evil right now. They might be able to do it again and I don't want them targeted if that is the case.I am very interested in learning who killed when there was no other kill.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 06:32:42 pm
In that case you need to also include the possibility that Perseus killed themselves. If they're some kind of angel or whatever it would be thematic for them to have sacrifice-to-do-stuff-while-dead shenanigans.@Toony, I'm not interested in finding who killed the Evil right now. They might be able to do it again and I don't want them targeted if that is the case.I am very interested in learning who killed when there was no other kill.
Post by: hector13 on September 25, 2022, 06:37:30 pm
Hector: Vote me and present your case for why I'm Evil then. I think your argument is nonsense, you think my actions are nonsense, we're at an impasse and I'm not interested in you today anyway. Right now my focus is on NQT and Knightwing. So get on with it.
Overconfidence in your own abilities, game-given or otherwise, is not AI. You asked a question, I gave you an answer. Given the number of questions I was asked D1 over my conclusions on your spot, I thought I’d make it as complete as possible.
My point was, you made mistakes, NQT made mistakes. Sub-optimal play is NAI.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 06:39:32 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 06:41:12 pm
If it was a one shot I'd probably claim it but if I had the opportunity to kill again I would probably stay silent.
In any case, I watched hector13 expecting him to be a more attractive nightkill target than Persus13. However, nobody targeted hector13.
Post by: Vector on September 25, 2022, 06:42:00 pm
Feedback requested: I'm just trying to increase visual clarity. Is this easier for people to read?
Yes. Much.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 06:42:48 pm
notquitethere -- unclaimed action, Roleblocked by Max
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- unclaimed action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (undisclosed).
hector13 -- unclaimed action
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- unclaimed action, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:44:01 pm
In any case, I watched hector13 expecting him to be a more attractive nightkill target than Persus13. However, nobody targeted hector13.Sad horn noise.
I actually was going to track you last night, but switched to Vector last minute.
Post by: Vector on September 25, 2022, 06:50:06 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 06:53:09 pm
notquitethere -- unclaimed action, Roleblocked by Max
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- unclaimed action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (undisclosed).
hector13 -- unclaimed action
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- no-actioned, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 06:57:46 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 25, 2022, 07:02:06 pm
Hector: So you don't think I'm Evil, you just want to defend NQT. Is this correct?
For fu-
*desp breath*
I think this is going to be a really long game if people incessantly repeat the same pissing questions.
You are claimed third-party, inherently untrustworthy. Do I need to answer the same bloody questions from D1 now too, to make sure everyone understands my position? EJ? Jim? You good? ‘cause I really have better things to do with my time than fucking Groundhog Day.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 07:05:57 pm
Hector being Evil would also imply Vector is a giant chad, but I don't think we're that lucky. Plus mafia would just not kill.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 07:13:44 pm
Like now, you are pushing me for my claimed alignment, ignoring my claimed wincon. Except you aren't pushing me, you're just defending NQT. Except you aren't defending NQT, you're just distrusting of Third-parties. So... what is your position?
Make a decision please.
toony: I see no world where we vote Hector here. Any case I have on him is dependent on NQT being scum.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 25, 2022, 07:21:52 pm
4mask: so I can't go back? that sucks. I was a Pixie. My bonus for not lying was that I could double-action. I was able to walk through people's dreams to learn their night results ((Max's only night result was that his action succeeded, which is how I know his alignment didn't change)), and I gave Jack a memory of NQT's that had a monster tag using my second action. 4mask, if you want to keep changing me, I'm willing to continuously use the abilities you grant me each night.Threadstate read (tm).
also: 4mask: I understand how you missed me asking you this earlier, but what was your last-second vote of Vector yesterday about?
Not specifically that Vector was scum, per say (although it did feel like there was a high chance of scum in Vector/Jim) but it felt like the wolves were too comfortable with EoD yesterday. So I placed a protest vote somewhere that I felt was higher likelyhood to catch scum than the arrayed options.
Also Knightwing's post at EoD was hella wolfy with hindsight on the Tric flip, I stand by what I said that whatever alignment Tric was knightwing was probably the opposite. People are saying he's a town devil is there any specific proof that he's town aligned?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 07:29:38 pm
Also Knightwing's post at EoD was hella wolfy with hindsight on the Tric flip, I stand by what I said that whatever alignment Tric was knightwing was probably the opposite. People are saying he's a town devil is there any specific proof that he's town aligned?KW said he was Good. Max has only said he's evil and not Evil.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 07:29:50 pm
That I offered to help and promised not to use my kill ability if I got enough souls?
By placing my trust in you guys to believe me?
The fact that I told you exactly what I did d1?
The fact that I have been as helpful and nice as humanly possible?
The fact that I keep getting questioned by the scummiest person in the fucking game?
The fact that I even offered to tell you guys what the deal I offered Jack even did?
Is that townie enough for you, Wolfy?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 07:32:58 pm
People are saying he's a town devil is there any specific proof that he's town aligned?None whatsoever. ToonyMan just keeps repeating it until it becomes true.
ToonyMan chose the Tric lynch last night and repeatedly asserted that Tric had to be mafia over the day, too. Being wildly wrong is within ToonyMan's town meta, but it's worth remembering.
[new KW post]
Demon Mafia again. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=128028) All of this has happened before and it will all happen again.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 07:33:53 pm
People are saying he's a town devil is there any specific proof that he's town aligned?None whatsoever. ToonyMan just keeps repeating it until it becomes true.
ToonyMan chose the Tric lynch last night and repeatedly asserted that Tric had to be mafia over the day, too. Being wildly wrong is within ToonyMan's town meta, but it's worth remembering.
[new KW post]
Demon Mafia again. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=128028) All of this has happened before and it will all happen again.
That literally just leads to my profile
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 07:34:46 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 25, 2022, 07:35:34 pm
Toonyman is probably town unless he's exactly scum with you and/or hector, I think.People are saying he's a town devil is there any specific proof that he's town aligned?None whatsoever. ToonyMan just keeps repeating it until it becomes true.
ToonyMan chose the Tric lynch last night and repeatedly asserted that Tric had to be mafia over the day, too. Being wildly wrong is within ToonyMan's town meta, but it's worth remembering.
[new KW post]
Demon Mafia again. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=128028) All of this has happened before and it will all happen again.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 07:37:03 pm
If I’m being honest, I think you’re town. But you are annoying me enough I’m voting you anyways.
Maximum Spin
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 07:41:38 pm
That literally just leads to my profileOh lol, I accidentally clicked your name instead of the post link.
This is you. Right now. And the rest of the thread from there: still you. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180078.msg8393632#msg8393632)
Max do you know for a fact KW is Evil?I don't know anything for a FACT. But I know he's an SK and lying about being town. Whether he counts as Evil is not clear to me, although I'm inclined to take NQT's word for it.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 07:42:53 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 07:44:13 pm
I meant, I would be halfway tempted to vote myself and use my dying message to mock you.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 07:45:25 pm
Egan, what'd you do last night?
Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 07:48:28 pm
Haha, spite vote.
But seriously KW, don't vote Max. He's not Evil.
There are a number of reasons why he likely isn't Evil.That literally just leads to my profileOh lol, I accidentally clicked your name instead of the post link.
This is you. Right now. And the rest of the thread from there: still you. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180078.msg8393632#msg8393632)Max do you know for a fact KW is Evil?I don't know anything for a FACT. But I know he's an SK and lying about being town. Whether he counts as Evil is not clear to me, although I'm inclined to take NQT's word for it.
1. He was giving Jack a devil deal while Persus was dying
2. Persus was going after him on D1
3. He outted himself on D2 with the explicit promise to help town, knowing the risk
4. He has been behaving in a way that makes it appear he is alone, like not realizing to try to contact you on N1
Maybe he's third-party, but Devils leave the game after getting their souls.
If we reject his devil deals then he loses if he's lying.
If he's telling the truth then he still wins with Good.
How does that sound KW?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 07:49:05 pm
Egan, what'd you do last night?
Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
Absolutely. Talk, now.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 07:49:14 pm
I agree with Egan here.Egan, what'd you do last night?
Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 07:50:14 pm
What, how did autocorrect manage that?Honestly, you did really good this game before reverting to Demon Mafia manipulation again. You set off alarm bells at the very beginning but you covered them up real quickly when pressed. I'm proud of you. But you're not fooling me anymore. I mean this is the same kind of thing you said here:
I meant, I would be halfway tempted to vote myself and use my dying message to mock you.
I will just take solace in the fact that you are wrong and smile as I fall asleep.You're not going to get any traction with this after that.
Maybe he's third-party, but Devils leave the game after getting their souls.He's not a Devil though. He's a Witch who summons devils. I don't trust this to be that simple, and I want to remove the obviously evil guy who admitted to being obviously evil before he gets any stronger.
If we reject his devil deals then he loses if he's lying.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 07:51:57 pm
There are a number of reasons why he likely isn't Evil.All of these reasons appear to be predicated on the assumption that Evil == mafia team, which is the same assumption I'd made before, but notquitethere said the opposite. So I think we need to consider that he can be Evil and not part of whatever team there might be either.
1. He was giving Jack a devil deal while Persus was dying
2. Persus was going after him on D1
3. He outted himself on D2 with the explicit promise to help town, knowing the risk
4. He has been behaving in a way that makes it appear he is alone, like not realizing to try to contact you on N1
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 07:53:18 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 07:54:33 pm
Whether he counts as Evil is not clear to me, although I'm inclined to take NQT's word for it.
A few riddles for you, and probably also NQT, about alignments in this game.
The Evil (with a capital E) win condition is for Evil players to equal or outnumber the remaining players. If an SK is Evil, and the mafia team is Evil, does the SK need to eliminate the mafia team to win?
In the event of a tie at end of day, Evil forces decide who gets chosen for elimination. How is this decided between Evil players that might not know of each other's existence?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 07:56:34 pm
Egan, what'd you do last night?
Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
Absolutely. Talk, now.
I asked if "we" are, not if YOU are. Does anyone else have opinions?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 07:57:12 pm
The Evil (with a capital E) win condition is for Evil players to equal or outnumber the remaining players. If an SK is Evil, and the mafia team is Evil, does the SK need to eliminate the mafia team to win?Probably, that would be normal for an SK anyway.
Quote
In the event of a tie at end of day, Evil forces decide who gets chosen for elimination. How is this decided between Evil players that might not know of each other's existence?It doesn't say ALL Evil forces do. There does still seem to be a specific mafiakill, since that word is explicitly used in the power I gave EuchreJack. So there's at least one "traditional" Evil player who might get to make that decision.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 07:57:45 pm
My opinion:Egan, what'd you do last night?
Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
Absolutely. Talk, now.
I asked if "we" are, not if YOU are. Does anyone else have opinions?
Good didn't kill Persus.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 07:59:17 pm
My opinion:(I honestly tend to agree.)
Good didn't kill Persus.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 08:00:43 pm
There does still seem to be a specific mafiakill, since that word is explicitly used in the power I gave EuchreJack. So there's at least one "traditional" Evil player who might get to make that decision.I can verify that that specific word also exists, when I was a Pixie I was unable to copy Mafiakills with the ability that gave Jack whatever he got from NQT.
Post by: Vector on September 25, 2022, 08:02:08 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 08:02:58 pm
Also, demon mafia manipulation? Being mad because you clearly aren’t behaving rationally and are stuck on me being evil when almost everything else is to the contrary? And even if I was trying to manipulate you, why would I resort to using something that literally fail3d the last time?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 08:05:11 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 25, 2022, 08:08:01 pm
Egan, what'd you do last night?
Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
Absolutely. Talk, now.
I asked if "we" are, not if YOU are. Does anyone else have opinions?
I'm leaning towards wanting to know Persus13's killer because I kind of want to know whether there was a mafia kill attempt or not.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 08:10:00 pm
...Egan, what'd you do last night?
Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
Absolutely. Talk, now.
I asked if "we" are, not if YOU are. Does anyone else have opinions?
I'm leaning towards wanting to know Persus13's killer because I kind of want to know whether there was a mafia kill attempt or not.
that right there is actually a fairly solid reason. changed my opinion, I think we should figure it out.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2022, 08:11:09 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 08:12:35 pm
That's reasonable. I did No Action.Why?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 08:12:53 pm
Knightwing: Should we narrow down who killed Persus?
I mean, yeah? That seems kinda like the point of mafia, I don’t know why you have to vote me for that
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 08:13:11 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 08:15:26 pm
I don’t believe 2 people did no action.It's possible. Vector claims no-action (which I can confirm), and also had a day ability like Egan claims. This would involve believing Egan though.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 08:16:05 pm
notquitethere -- unclaimed action, Roleblocked by Max
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- No Action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (undisclosed).
hector13 -- unclaimed action
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- no-actioned, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
So Perseus was killed by one of the following:
A Liar
Hector13
Perseus themselves.
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 08:16:43 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 08:19:34 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 08:25:02 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 25, 2022, 08:28:45 pm
or NQT with a non-roleblockable kill.
If that was the case, it was probably a one shot, in which case we don’t have to worry any more
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 08:29:30 pm
This bothers me because it means some scenario like the following happened:
#1
Evil!NQT tries to kill Hector?, gets blocked by Max
Somebody not part of the Evil team kills Persus
This seems the most likely.
#2
Evil!NQT or SK!NQT superkills Persus, bypassing Max's block
Unlikely. NQT would have to be SK here unless he's insane, but then where does mafiakill go?
#3
Persus used some sacrifice ability
Seems unlikely especially because Vector picked two players that can be killed, what are the chances?
#4
Somebody multi-tasked and killed Persus like a baller
Unlikely
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 25, 2022, 08:34:31 pm
update 3 of N1 actions:Let me see...
notquitethere -- unclaimed action, Roleblocked by Max
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- No Action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (undisclosed).
hector13 -- unclaimed action
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- no-actioned, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
So Perseus was killed by one of the following:
A Liar
Hector13
Perseus themselves.
Actions I personally feel super confident about:
notquitethere -- unclaimed action, Roleblocked by Max
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max [...]
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), [...]
These involve me directly and I can confirm everything everyone else has said makes sense. (Technically, I can't confirm NQT's action that isn't even claimed, but I'm including it here because my roleblock succeeded. Maybe I got redirected to a no-actor or something, though.)
Actions that seem probably true as a result:
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
EuchreJack -- [...] got another Monster ability (undisclosed).
Lenglon -- [...] gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
These are all confirmed by someone who seemed to be telling the truth in the first section.
That leaves:
Egan_BW -- No Action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
hector13 -- unclaimed action
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- no-actioned, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 08:50:54 pm
I think Egan, Hector, and Jim are the most likely to have killed Persus. I think 4mask is possible and KW is very unlikely.
I'm kind of confused because Good wins when all Evil players are removed. I'm not really understanding the structure that's going on here. I really don't think a Good player killed Persus, but then if some other non-Good player killed them then Good isn't suppose to care even if they're SK? That doesn't work.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 25, 2022, 09:01:24 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 25, 2022, 09:15:38 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2022, 09:34:28 pm
NQT's ability is a redirect. It picks two targets and redirects them to each other.That's the one with the monster tag?
Post by: Lenglon on September 25, 2022, 09:40:56 pm
One of. My ability selected a single action with the Monster tag at random from those he has. It would have failed and refunded if he had no actions with the Monster tag.NQT's ability is a redirect. It picks two targets and redirects them to each other.That's the one with the monster tag?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 25, 2022, 10:37:33 pm
Both the abilities obtained from Max and NQT have the Monster tag.NQT's ability is a redirect. It picks two targets and redirects them to each other.That's the one with the monster tag?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 05:48:12 am
IT SEEMS LIKE OUR CLASSMATES HAVE FALLEN INTO BEAUTIFUL DESPAIR, HAHA-
*cough
Apologizes, I had a cold.
Post by: Mamobo on September 26, 2022, 06:26:27 am
------------------------
-> Knightwing64 --2-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411428#msg8411428), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411285#msg8411285),
-> Maximum Spin --2-- Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411403#msg8411403), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411259#msg8411259),
-> notquitethere --2-- Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411160#msg8411160), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411342#msg8411342),
Egan_BW --1-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411395#msg8411395),
4maskwolf --0--
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Jim Groovester --0--
Lenglon --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- 4maskwolf, EuchreJack, hector13, Jim Groovester,
6 to Hammer. Day ends on September 28, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~61 hours remaining).
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 07:18:27 am
Grr, NQT is actually suspicious, as the ability could belong to Mafia. Monsterous binding of souls sounds sketchy, but then again, Webadict game.
I will note my own ability is NOT monster tag, just in case people start wondering if ALL the abilities are tagged "monster".
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 07:37:50 am
And Vector, I was just speculating, I wasn't asking anyone to make any claim. This 'role fishing' thing dogs me in every game. My natural inclination is to speculate, to try to make sense. There's nothing scum-sided about that, it's just my play style.
In too many games on Bay12, we've let 'useful' 3rd parties hang around for a long time and it's turned out that they're serial killers or similar. I've re-read KW's claim that his power and it makes little sense as a town power, right?
The souls I get from you accepting the deal let’s me kill everyone whose soul I have when I get to three or more. Given that I’m planning to give these deals to town, of which I am, I’m obviously not going to.
Does this add up?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 07:54:52 am
Shitty execution targets again I see. Let's just let the Mafia pick ALL our lynches.Knightwing and Max aren't Evil so two of these "wagons" are bad.
Grr, NQT is actually suspicious, as the ability could belong to Mafia. Monsterous binding of souls sounds sketchy, but then again, Webadict game.
I will note my own ability is NOT monster tag, just in case people start wondering if ALL the abilities are tagged "monster".
Voting NQT purely because of their role is incorrect as I don't see why town couldn't have a monster tag redirect.
It would be better to vote them for their behavior, whether you believe they didn't notice the monster tag on their redirect, whether you believe they were blocked from killing Hector, etc.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 07:55:39 am
Who do you think killed Persus?The souls I get from you accepting the deal let’s me kill everyone whose soul I have when I get to three or more. Given that I’m planning to give these deals to town, of which I am, I’m obviously not going to.Does this add up?
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 09:10:33 am
Also, why are you votjng Max while saying you dislike KW's claim?
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 09:23:11 am
Who do you think killed Persus?If the claims are all true, then it either it's Egan or Hector; OR Wuba has sprinkled in some free actions and someone performed the sacrifice. Hector and Persus were at each other's throats, so maybe it's him. Whether it's multiple Evil teams, a neutral thing or a town-led ritual remains to be seen.
My current speculation is that NQT tried to mafiakill and couldn't.My current theory is Persus had a mafiakill that is a low priority and was killed before it could fire. Wuba appears to use a linear form of action processing where kills can actually prevent slower actions. (That's not something that can happen in games I run, but I can see the appeal of a straightforward order.)
I'm kind of confused because Good wins when all Evil players are removed. I'm not really understanding the structure that's going on here. I really don't think a Good player killed Persus, but then if some other non-Good player killed them then Good isn't suppose to care even if they're SK? That doesn't work.I think you're confusing things. Why don't you think a vig could have performed the kill? Consider the game's setting. But if they are a serial killer, then they'd be Evil. I.e. we'd have to kill them to end the game.
Lenglon
NQT: I've had two different monster roles so far. In both cases every single ability has had the "monster" tag, no matter what the ability was. The tag seems to be based on the origin if the ability, not the ability itself.The tag is just on one power (for whatever reason). My other abilities don't have the monster tag, and nor would you expect them to have them.
Also, why are you votjng Max while saying you dislike KW's claim?I'm weighing it up. Max's Day 1 game was not town-sided. I want him gone. KW's claim is also suspicious. What's confusing here? I'm not saying they're a team. This game might be like Supernatural 10 without one full Evil teams, just several disconnected Evil parties. Unless you have any better information?
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 09:28:01 am
Looks good to me.
Feedback requested: I'm just trying to increase visual clarity. Is this easier for people to read?
4mask, did I miss where you explained what you were trying to do at EOD?
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 09:44:39 am
4mask, did I miss where you explained what you were trying to do at EOD?
Threadstate read (tm).
Not specifically that Vector was scum, per say (although it did feel like there was a high chance of scum in Vector/Jim) but it felt like the wolves were too comfortable with EoD yesterday. So I placed a protest vote somewhere that I felt was higher likelyhood to catch scum than the arrayed options.
Also Knightwing's post at EoD was hella wolfy with hindsight on the Tric flip, I stand by what I said that whatever alignment Tric was knightwing was probably the opposite. People are saying he's a town devil is there any specific proof that he's town aligned?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 09:46:19 am
I have strong reason to believe a vig did not kill Persus.
I was wondering if Hector soaked the mafiakill with some kind of monster armor, however Jim has claimed nobody even visited Hector.
Can you tell us what you tried to do last night? If it's an action that isn't known then tell us who the target was suppose to be and why.
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 10:01:05 am
@NQT:Could you explain? I don't think Hector is Evil.
I have strong reason to believe a vig did not kill Persus.
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 10:17:33 am
---
Can you tell us what you tried to do last night? If it's an action that isn't known then tell us who the target was suppose to be and why.I'm a Sexton with a few boosted abilities to do with binding and putting to rest souls. N1, I was going to destroy Tric's corpse as resurrections are like 50/50 anti-town, and zombie killers have been a thing in other games. Tonight, I intend to prevent Persus from being resurrected or whatever else, by destroying his corpse. This should be confirmable.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 10:21:16 am
I will if Hector claims.@NQT:Could you explain? I don't think Hector is Evil.
I have strong reason to believe a vig did not kill Persus.
@MOD:
How does the Evil force determine ties? What does that mean? The mafia?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 10:23:35 am
Thank you.Can you tell us what you tried to do last night? If it's an action that isn't known then tell us who the target was suppose to be and why.I'm a Sexton with a few boosted abilities to do with binding and putting to rest souls. N1, I was going to destroy Tric's corpse as resurrections are like 50/50 anti-town, and zombie killers have been a thing in other games. Tonight, I intend to prevent Persus from being resurrected or whatever else, by destroying his corpse. This should be confirmable.
Is there an explanation for your monster tags in your role?
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2022, 10:25:49 am
@MOD:They vote, of course. If a tie cannot be resolved in such a manner, then one will be Chosen randomly from those with the most votes.
How does the Evil force determine ties? What does that mean? The mafia?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 10:29:12 am
How do they vote?@MOD:They vote, of course. If a tie cannot be resolved in such a manner, then one will be Chosen randomly from those with the most votes.
How does the Evil force determine ties? What does that mean? The mafia?
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 10:32:30 am
Thank's Lenglon, I didn't know your name was 4maskwolf :)You both post slowly, he had already answered, you said yourself you had missed it, and I didn't want things to drag on for no reason.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 10:34:18 am
My claim seems suspicious? I literally… are you serious?
You guys are so aggravating.
If I end up being voted out for trying to help you all out, I’m going to unleash my inner Derm next game. I swear
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 10:35:55 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 10:37:17 am
If you say I’m using “demon mafia” tactics one more time I’m going to explodeyou're using "demon mafia" tactics
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 10:37:51 am
Is there an explanation for your monster tags in your role?'Tag' singular. Only one. It's about tethering souls so maybe supernatural = monster? My non-supernatural power doesn't have the monster tag. Really though, I imagine the tag is purely to interact with whatever weird monster powers Lenglon, Max and co have. My other abilities have different tags which actually make sense.
You're claiming to be a Thief, right? Jim is also claiming the same kind of role. (Thieves get both watch and track in this setup normally.) Now it's not impossible for there to be two town thieves...
KW
My claim seems suspicious? I literally… are you serious?You're giving out Devil powers... you must admit that's a little eyebrow-raising. What happens when you claim people's souls?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 10:41:16 am
Really though, I imagine the tag is purely to interact with whatever weird monster powers Lenglon, Max and co have.My powers don't interact in any way with tags. In fact, my abilities are pretty straightforward except that they switch between doing two different things depending on a circumstance. Only 4maskwolf has claimed to have a power that interacts with tags.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 10:41:48 am
MULTIPLE TIMES
NO WONDER IM SUSPICIOUS IF YOU DON’T EVEN BOTHER TO READ MY POSTS
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 10:42:28 am
If you say I’m using “demon mafia” tactics one more time I’m going to explodeyou're using "demon mafia" tactics
🖕
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 10:43:15 am
Only 4maskwolf has claimed to have a power that interacts with tags.Erm, hi? Ability that interacts with Tags here. Used it on NQT N1. Don't have it anymore because 4mask overwrote my role. It's literally the reason we're talking about them right now.
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 10:44:14 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 10:44:29 am
Oh yeah. That too.Only 4maskwolf has claimed to have a power that interacts with tags.Erm, hi? Ability that interacts with Tags here. Used it on NQT N1. Don't have it anymore because 4mask overwrote my role. It's literally the reason we're talking about them right now.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 10:47:18 am
Sorry KW if I have missed it, like I said before, I'm sick atm and I'm not reading great. You said that when you get three souls they would leave the game... but what I want to know is why you're targeting town players with that ability? Is the soul leaving automatic? Are you going to stop at two deals? What's the plan here?
Wot, No you’re thinking of other supernatural games.
When I get to three souls, I have the option to kill the people whose souls I have. Given that I am planning on handing out ability’s to townies, I obviously won’t be using it.
It’s not mandatory, it’s just another ability I can use whenever
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2022, 10:47:47 am
How do they vote?They pick one of the Players among those with the highest number of votes.
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 10:57:40 am
When I get to three souls, I have the option to kill the people whose souls I have. Given that I am planning on handing out ability’s to townies, I obviously won’t be using it.And would that kill all three or can you pick and choose? What happens if they die first?
It’s not mandatory, it’s just another ability I can use whenever
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 11:01:17 am
How do they submit their vote?How do they vote?They pick one of the Players among those with the highest number of votes.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 11:02:43 am
Chill KW, Max is designed to make people mad.🖕If you say I’m using “demon mafia” tactics one more time I’m going to explodeyou're using "demon mafia" tactics
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 11:08:05 am
When I get to three souls, I have the option to kill the people whose souls I have. Given that I am planning on handing out ability’s to townies, I obviously won’t be using it.And would that kill all three or can you pick and choose? What happens if they die first?
It’s not mandatory, it’s just another ability I can use whenever
It would kill all three, I can’t pick and choose. If they die first? I dunno.
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 11:15:01 am
It would kill all three, I can’t pick and choose. If they die first? I dunno.Figured.
EJ, why did you 1. accept the deal and 2. blab about the deal and 3. not mention you'd taken the offer? (Unless, again, I missed it)
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 11:16:13 am
I'll have you know I EVOLVED to make people mad. Nothing could design me on purpose.Chill KW, Max is designed to make people mad.🖕If you say I’m using “demon mafia” tactics one more time I’m going to explodeyou're using "demon mafia" tactics
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2022, 11:25:28 am
How do they submit their vote?However they want to.
Post by: hector13 on September 26, 2022, 11:38:53 am
Hector: I'm repeating the same questions because your story isn't internally consistent. Just take a stand somewhere please. I don't care where, but each time I ask what your position is you change it.
Like now, you are pushing me for my claimed alignment, ignoring my claimed wincon. Except you aren't pushing me, you're just defending NQT. Except you aren't defending NQT, you're just distrusting of Third-parties. So... what is your position?
Make a decision please.
My position has been pretty clear since D1: Do Not Trust Lenglon.
Consequently when you appear to be trying to take the lead on guiding town to things, it doesn’t sit well.
If you want consistency, maybe you should start with yourself: “Here’s a nice list of claimed actions all in one place.”
“I agree with Egan we shouldn’t be trying to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus.”
You changed your mind since then, but still. Actions don’t match your words there.
A’ight nobody fell into my trap, which wasn’t so much a trap as a hope that somebody would slip and fakeclaim something.
I have an action that tells me some roles present in the game, which is what I did N1.
I received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles I received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 12:08:58 pm
It would kill all three, I can’t pick and choose. If they die first? I dunno.Figured.
EJ, why did you 1. accept the deal and 2. blab about the deal and 3. not mention you'd taken the offer? (Unless, again, I missed it)
Knightwing misread or misrepresented his ability. I have until the End of Day to decide.
I mentioned the deal because I figured the Devil was bad.
At this time, I'm most concerned about Knightwing's win condition.
That being said, I'm probably going to take the deal. I would humbly suggest that the next player declines.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 02:08:17 pm
I asked webadict what the Evil win condition was during D1. It's to equal or outnumber the remaining players, so all players with the Evil win condition are on the same time. It would be Evil on Evil friendly fire if that was the case. I guess it's technically possible but it would be a very oddly structured setup if that was the case.
Webadict isn't making it clear that Evil is all on the same page:
How do they submit their vote?However they want to.
@Jack:
At this time, I'm most concerned about Knightwing's win condition.It's Good.
That being said, I'm probably going to take the deal. I would humbly suggest that the next player declines.How selfish.
@Lenglon:
Okay, Hector claimed a believable action...I feel like I'm drawing the kill tonight even if I keep this to myself so I think it's okay to say a little.I will if Hector claims.@NQT:Could you explain? I don't think Hector is Evil.
I have strong reason to believe a vig did not kill Persus.
I'm the town vig. I would be shocked if there's a second. Obviously, I didn't shoot last night. I also would never lay organs out in a circle like some ritual freak.
I'm looking for a specific monster that has passive auto abilities. I wasn't even sure if they existed, but with Persus dying I think this makes it more likely. I can't be converted and if a monster ability targets me, fun things happen.
I don't really think Hector killed Persus. So my top picks are Egan and Jim. Currently Egan, because Jim has an action they claimed and I don't want Egan to resurrect Tric (though I'm not sure if Egan will still res Tric if they're executed since they ignored me). I'm probably going to shoot Tric tonight if they come back so we don't have to deal with that shit.
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 02:23:37 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 02:27:16 pm
Toony, you said you think you're drawing a kill tonight. Would it be good or bad for me to use the monster-jailkeep 4mask changed me into on you?It would be bad.
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 02:37:28 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 02:38:35 pm
And if would help you guys trust me more, I could tell you what the devil deals I have do?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 02:45:16 pm
And if would help you guys trust me more, I could tell you what the devil deals I have do?Sure.
Also Knightwing, don't offer me devil deals either.
Post by: Vector on September 26, 2022, 02:49:47 pm
I agree that Egan is the likely source of the kill on Persus. I haven't felt comfortable with them more-or-less lurking. The flavortext was ... concerning.
I don't feel good about NQT but am willing to give them a pass for now cuz COVID.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 02:59:41 pm
I don't feel good about NQT but am willing to give them a pass for now cuz COVID.I think NQT is shady and maybe even more likely to be Evil than Egan, however NQT was blocked by Max and I want to get into Egan's head more. There's two players that claimed to no-action on N1, Vector and Egan. I can confirm Vector didn't target anyone on N1 so that clears you. I also find Jim and Hector's (and 4mask's) claims believable.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 02:59:58 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 03:30:53 pm
Oh. I did misread it. It just the the action successfully went through, not that they accepted it.I would greatly appreciate if you did NOT tell people what my taking the Devil Deal gives me.
And if would help you guys trust me more, I could tell you what the devil deals I have do?
If you have more than one type to give out, then mentioning a different one would be ok.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 03:32:42 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 26, 2022, 03:38:59 pm
Had a long weekend and long day today, will try to get some solving work in tomorrow (real time)
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 04:19:03 pm
I can offer Long Life
when accepted target gains a 1-Shot Revive when Killed.
Refusing makes Kill Actions Redirected from you to the target for two Cycles.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 04:26:07 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 04:29:30 pm
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 04:49:32 pm
Knightwing: Offer me that one tonight, and I will decline it. You will get the protection, and everyone as a whole will get to not be worried about you blowing up the town from having your deals accepted. Besides, having me meatshielding for someone else will make Hector happy.How will the rest of us know you've rejected?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 04:51:13 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 04:52:19 pm
So either Toony or the killer is a vig and the other is probably an SK (I agree with Toony that it's unlikely there's two vigs). So the best way to resolve this is Egan.Knightwing: Offer me that one tonight, and I will decline it. You will get the protection, and everyone as a whole will get to not be worried about you blowing up the town from having your deals accepted. Besides, having me meatshielding for someone else will make Hector happy.How will the rest of us know you've rejected?
By me saying that they did?
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 04:53:46 pm
So either Toony or the killer is a vig and the other is probably an SK (I agree with Toony that it's unlikely there's two vigs). So the best way to resolve this is Egan.Is anyone else willing to volunteer to reject? Don't get me wrong, I understand why you have your doubts, but I don't see a better option. If you have a better idea, just call it out.Knightwing: Offer me that one tonight, and I will decline it. You will get the protection, and everyone as a whole will get to not be worried about you blowing up the town from having your deals accepted. Besides, having me meatshielding for someone else will make Hector happy.How will the rest of us know you've rejected?
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 04:59:51 pm
Is anyone else willing to volunteer to reject? Don't get me wrong, I understand why you have your doubts, but I don't see a better option. If you have a better idea, just call it out.Other options:
- we resolve KW's slot
- I reject it (several people seem happier seeing me die than you after all)
- we ignore this as a non-issue and focus on launching Evil players
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 05:02:00 pm
Playing mafia with the homies
Let’s goooo
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 05:02:29 pm
So either Toony or the killer is a vig and the other is probably an SK (I agree with Toony that it's unlikely there's two vigs). So the best way to resolve this is Egan.It might be that simple. I want to see Egan's argument though.
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 05:03:28 pm
I kinda prefer lynching you today (which to be fair is the third option on your list, because I think you're Evil), which means you aren't going to be a valid target for KW. But I get the logic.Is anyone else willing to volunteer to reject? Don't get me wrong, I understand why you have your doubts, but I don't see a better option. If you have a better idea, just call it out.Other options:
- we resolve KW's slot
- I reject it (several people seem happier seeing me die than you after all)
- we ignore this as a non-issue and focus on launching Evil players
Post by: hector13 on September 26, 2022, 05:07:33 pm
What would happen if EJ were to reject your current offer to him?
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 05:13:37 pm
NQT: has an ability with the monster tag
Lenglon: "you're a monster so you're evil"
Sorry to keep banging on about this, but Lenglon hasn't changed her tune: either she is telling on herself with this logic or is seriously confused
This day has felt a bit more muted. There's a lot less fire. Maybe I'm just not awake when they are but I don't feel I've heard much from 4mask, Jim, Vector, Egan. 4mask and Jim aren't even bothering to vote. I felt good about Jim yesterday but his hard defence of Max concerns me. 4mask continues to be dodge. There's scum in this pool.
These are my about-to-go-to-bed thoughts. Good night.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 05:18:18 pm
I think the main problem with this particular idea is that the offered party gains a revive instead of being a meat shield if they don’t go along with it.
What would happen if EJ were to reject your current offer to him?
Target Player loses an Ability of their choosing and gives it to you.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 05:21:14 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 05:21:37 pm
I think the main problem with this particular idea is that the offered party gains a revive instead of being a meat shield if they don’t go along with it.Hector: Why did you ask this question after EJ JUST requested for KW to not reveal what was offered to him?
What would happen if EJ were to reject your current offer to him?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 05:24:21 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 05:25:33 pm
He only asked what would happen if Jack disagreed, not what the deal gave him. So I figured it was coolIt is possible to make an educated guess as to what the deal gave him based on what happens when he disagrees.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 05:27:24 pm
Nobody going to think that it didn’t give you powers
Post by: hector13 on September 26, 2022, 05:32:20 pm
I’m also a teensy bit resentful of EJ’s case on me being “fuck it”, 5 hours before the end of D1, as I stated at the day start. Just because he didn’t perform the kill doesn’t mean he isn’t something to worry about.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 05:37:42 pm
NQT: This isn't complicated. I consider myself a variant Miller. I claimed Monster abilities Post 1 of Day 1, Max claimed Monster abilities at the beginning of Day 1 as well. You only claimed when you got caught with them. I do not believe your claim to have "forgotten". I think you're an Evil that tried to hide your monstrous nature.NQT claimed they didn't notice it, not forgot. They also claimed the monster tag is only on the redirect.I think the main problem with this particular idea is that the offered party gains a revive instead of being a meat shield if they don’t go along with it.Hector: Why did you ask this question after EJ JUST requested for KW to not reveal what was offered to him?
What would happen if EJ were to reject your current offer to him?
I don’t know if EJ was aware of the consequences of rejecting, and the power hasn’t been revealed so…I also asked Jack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410609#msg8410609) why Egan was in their strong town reads D1 and I didn't get a response. Want to follow up on that Jack?
I’m also a teensy bit resentful of EJ’s case on me being “fuck it”, 5 hours before the end of D1, as I stated at the day start. Just because he didn’t perform the kill doesn’t mean he isn’t something to worry about.
Post by: notquitethere on September 26, 2022, 05:41:26 pm
NQT: This isn't complicated. I consider myself a variant Miller. I claimed Monster abilities Post 1 of Day 1, Max claimed Monster abilities at the beginning of Day 1 as well. You only claimed when you got caught with them. I do not believe your claim to have "forgotten". I think you're an Evil that tried to hide your monstrous nature.That may be how you consider yourself, but it's not an accurate way of thinking about the tag.
Imagine for one second that you're a kind of Sexton. A town role. Someone claims having monster powers so you speculate that they could be some kind of were-beast, given the setting:
Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.I'm guessing some kind of were-beast. We should be on the look out for bodies killed with claws or teeth.
You know that 'monsters' in this game, like werebears, can be town, or like were-rats, can be survivors. Monster isn't the same as Evil. The possibility of being considered a monster yourself doesn't ever cross your mind.
On D2, this very same player then claims that you are a monster and have a monster power. You check and right enough, one of your abilities (not all, not more than one, just one) has an unexpected 'monster' tag. It's not an ability in anyway related to being a monster, as you are a Sexton. It has a soul theme, so there's maybe some rationale. Still, it's a surprise to you. Anyway, this nut keeps on claiming that this omission means you are Evil after all.
Now consider that this was how it was for me and you're being insane and/or disingenuous for pushing this line.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 05:44:15 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 05:46:59 pm
I don't think Lenglon is trying to be malicious here NQT, regardless of whether they're correct or not about you.
@Egan:
I don't have night actions. This doesn't seem so surprising given that I have a day activated revive? That's pretty powerful already.Okay.
Describe who you are and why you're here, right now.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 05:51:23 pm
I think the main problem with this particular idea is that the offered party gains a revive instead of being a meat shield if they don’t go along with it.For what it's worth, I was going to offer this info if Knightwing64 did not.
What would happen if EJ were to reject your current offer to him?
Egan just looks like their Town self. Goofy, fun-loving, and clearly enjoys being a part of Forum Mafia as a low-effort Townie.
I might have more semi- relevant experience with Egan as scum, as the GM of the Forum Paranoia game. Egan as scum is generally a cool, focused professional committed to the win.
I'm really not buying Egan as scum.
However, I do believe at least one scum was on Tric's wagon.
At this point, I'm thinking it's Jim.
I don't have night actions. This doesn't seem so surprising given that I have a day activated revive? That's pretty powerful already.
I'm also bewildered why everyone is insisting that reviving Tric is a Very Bad thing.
Egan, it's hard to imagine that your Revive has multiple uses, so people are suspecting you because you obviously have some other power. It might be worth mentioning another Day Power that you have to save your neck.
Also: Does your Revive still work if you're lynched?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 05:53:12 pm
Describe who you are and why you're here, right now.Here's an example:
I'm a retired monster hunter. I've killed hundreds of monsters since I was 19. My first kill was a Ghoul that had eaten a friend of mine. Another friend of mine had their child go missing so I left retirement to investigate. So now I'm here.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 05:53:31 pm
I don’t know if EJ was aware of the consequences of rejecting, and the power hasn’t been revealed so…I voted you, get over it. It tends to happen in these games. :P
I’m also a teensy bit resentful of EJ’s case on me being “fuck it”, 5 hours before the end of D1, as I stated at the day start. Just because he didn’t perform the kill doesn’t mean he isn’t something to worry about.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 06:08:52 pm
We know Persus13 died last night, was Evil, and only Persus13 and Hector could be killed.
Toony alleges to be the Town Vigilante. I believe that claim due to the way that Toony revealed it. So I suspect Persus13's death came from Third Party. Nobody claimed it, so the killer is probably Another Evil. This is useful, as it makes it less likely that Third Party was capable of killing Hector. So only Mafia had the capability to kill Hector. This leads me to three possible conclusions:
1) The kill was stopped by a Roleblocker. The most obvious theory is that Max stopped NQT from killing Hector.
2) Hector is on the scum team, thus the scum team No Killed.
3) The Mafia does NOT include Hector, but still decided it was best to NO KILL.
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 06:09:51 pm
Describe who you are and why you're here, right now.Sure
"I'm one of the Fey, a being that trades in far more currencies than simple coin. We trade in memories, in favors, even in our own bodies at times. And I... I've been envious of humanity for a very, very long time. The freetime, the the simplicity, no need constantly barter for the necessities of simple existance. You can just eat and sleep and work and love and be. And well, I wanted to live like that, to be a human myself. So I collected everything I could, gathering memories and favors and even trading my own body for the simple Pixie form I had when I got here, all of it to gain a one-way trip to the human world. When I got here, it, it was so glorious, so beautiful, but also so confusing. So much I couldn't understand. You humans can lie so easily, and somehow you claim to own land or whatever? I was lost for quite some time. But eventually I found my way here, with the help of Web who helped me find a home, as my first friend. And now he... I may not be one of you, but I want justice for my friend, and to still have a home, a chance to live amongst humanity, when this is all over."
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 06:13:21 pm
also:
“My children. I have identified the cause of your siblings murder,” They being. “Monsters have infiltrated our ranks, and while my Vision was once true enough to be able to pierce their veil, time has taken It from me. Thus, I know that with your help, you can find the monsters among you and cast them before all of us. We will sacrifice them to the Burning Sun.”
Post by: Mamobo on September 26, 2022, 06:28:09 pm
------------------------
-> Egan_BW --3-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411395#msg8411395), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411716#msg8411716),
notquitethere --2-- Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411160#msg8411160), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411535#msg8411535),
Knightwing64 --1-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411285#msg8411285),
Maximum Spin --1-- Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411403#msg8411403),
4maskwolf --0--
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Jim Groovester --0--
Lenglon --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- 4maskwolf, Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411683#msg8411683), hector13, Jim Groovester,
6 to Hammer. Day ends on September 28, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~49 hours remaining).
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 06:30:04 pm
So it doesn't look terribly noble. But... Webadict game.
Post by: Vector on September 26, 2022, 06:32:21 pm
thanks
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 06:34:48 pm
Why are we letting ToonyMan & Vector lead us into Another mislynch?
Since the NQT wagon doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and I think Egan is Town, let's see if Jim Groovester is a more viable scummy target.
I really need to do a reread. I don't think I have time/energy to do it tonight, but I'm committing to doing it by the end of tomorrow West Coast-Time. You can eat me if I don't get it done by then.Welcome back, Town-Vector!
thanks
Post by: Vector on September 26, 2022, 06:36:02 pm
Welcome back, Town-Vector!
Fuck off
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 06:36:58 pm
I'm really not buying Egan as scum.I wanted a snappy response from Egan, but anyway while we're here let's think about this:
When I was snooping around for who killed Persus it came to the point where just Egan and Hector had not claimed night actions. I voted Egan and asked them what they did last night. Egan's response?
Egan couldn't know for sure that a town vigilante existed. One could argue that Egan's response here was to hopefully blend themselves in as a "town vig" as it seemed possible a town vig did not exist at that point. I find this suspect.Egan, what'd you do last night?Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
PPE:
hahaWelcome back, Town-Vector!Fuck off
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 06:41:57 pm
notquitethere -- unclaimed action, Roleblocked by Max
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- No Action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (undisclosed).
hector13 -- received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage.
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- no-actioned, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 06:43:29 pm
NQT's attempted night action: "N1, I was going to destroy Tric's corpse as resurrections are like 50/50 anti-town, and zombie killers have been a thing in other games."
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 06:44:56 pm
It's possible someone else killed Persus, but my money is on Egan. I really want to hear from them more.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 06:45:02 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 06:46:49 pm
I find it curious how hard Jack is defending Egan when Egan is my top suspect for killing Persus.
It's possible someone else killed Persus, but my money is on Egan. I really want to hear from them more.
I've said my bit. I don't have night actions. Finding the killer is fine by me, but I'm not it.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 06:48:48 pm
@Lenglon: I revealed the Monster Ability that I got from NQT - Bind Souls- Two targets each redirected to each other.
Which by the way, seems awfully weak for a single use Town power that carries the Monster tag. It's more likely to tie up or kill Town. But in Mafia/SK hands, a potent weapon to cripple town.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 06:51:25 pm
Thank you for the role flavor.
Then who? I'm voting you unless we can find them. Let's work together on this.I find it curious how hard Jack is defending Egan when Egan is my top suspect for killing Persus.
It's possible someone else killed Persus, but my money is on Egan. I really want to hear from them more.
I've said my bit. I don't have night actions. Finding the killer is fine by me, but I'm not it.
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 06:53:13 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 06:55:19 pm
notquitethere -- attempted to destroy Tric's body, Roleblocked by Max
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- No Action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (Bind Souls, redirects two targets to each other).
hector13 -- received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage.
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- no-actioned, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 06:56:28 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 06:59:04 pm
Scum having a revival ability seems weird, that seems like more of a townie ability, am I wrong?Because past Supernatural games have had revives be "revived but silently came back Evil", you are wrong.
Post by: Vector on September 26, 2022, 07:00:26 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 07:02:35 pm
On D1 you said you were 85% sure NQT was town and that Jack was being his scum self.
Can you reflect on both these players for D2 so far?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 07:03:22 pm
The Reviver should know whether or not we can be sure of the revived remaining Town. Presumably, a Priest would revive Town as Town. So, if Egan is Town, then the revival is safe. Otherwise, Egan is just a lying death cultist.Scum having a revival ability seems weird, that seems like more of a townie ability, am I wrong?Because past Supernatural games have had revives be "revived but silently came back Evil", you are wrong.
Web has a boner for making the game hard to mechanically solve. I think we need to rely on a combo of behavior + mechanical claiming, not trying to read into flavor.+1 (please don't kill me!)
Post by: Vector on September 26, 2022, 07:04:38 pm
@Vector:
On D1 you said you were 85% sure NQT was town and that Jack was being his scum self.
Can you reflect on both these players for D2 so far?
I'm happy to pay close attention to them in the reread.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 07:23:00 pm
If nay, then eliminating me and seeing my town flip gives you a confirmed town Tric. If not, you should avoid doing that until tomorrow, my or Tric's flip will confirm the other.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 07:26:10 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 07:31:43 pm
Then who? I'm voting you unless we can find them. Let's work together on this.
Look, I could expend mental effort figuring that out, or I could update my RTD. I won't do either but the RTD is a superior option anyways.
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2022, 07:54:48 pm
Mod: Does Priority Day End mean that the action succeeds when the actioner is Eliminated at day end?Players chosen for execution die before the end of the Day (You can think of it as an Execution Sub-Phase, if you'd like, followed by the End of Day Sub-Phase.) This means that Actions performed by them and Actions targeting them will fail unless allowed through Ability.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 08:09:52 pm
Hm, the ability I got from Max seems be described as "the ability to push people off the righteous path".Described how? It doesn't say that on my role. Its description is "you lead the target astray", which is vaguely similar, but I'm curious where you're getting this from.
So it doesn't look terribly noble. But... Webadict game.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 08:13:01 pm
@Max & Knightwing64: Could we de-escalate your feud and have you both vote Jim? First to switch gets FREE Townpoints!Why would I switch from confirmed scum to Jim?
I keep telling you, ToonyMan's making it up when he says Knightwing's win condition is Good. I know it isn't.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 08:19:42 pm
I’m not confirmed Scum, it’s just been you saying it over and over when a fuckton of evidence has been pointing to the contrary.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 26, 2022, 08:20:02 pm
I got it from the flavor text detailing how I got the ability.Hm, the ability I got from Max seems be described as "the ability to push people off the righteous path".Described how? It doesn't say that on my role. Its description is "you lead the target astray", which is vaguely similar, but I'm curious where you're getting this from.
So it doesn't look terribly noble. But... Webadict game.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 08:20:16 pm
@Max & Knightwing64: Could we de-escalate your feud and have you both vote Jim? First to switch gets FREE Townpoints!Why would I switch from confirmed scum to Jim?
I keep telling you, ToonyMan's making it up when he says Knightwing's win condition is Good. I know it isn't.
How do you know it isn’t. Tell me.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 08:33:03 pm
I’m not confirmed Scum, it’s just been you saying it over and over when a fuckton of evidence has been pointing to the contrary.Name one single piece of evidence.
You saying things is not evidence.
How do you know it isn’t. Tell me.Because it's listed after your role name in the part of my own role that tells me who to look out for.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 08:36:00 pm
I’m not confirmed scum if it doesn’t even say I’m scum.
That’s literally just you making a false assumption.
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 08:36:59 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 08:39:56 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 08:41:12 pm
Just putting this out there, Max, is there any chance there's two Summoners?I think I said before that I can't strictly rule it out, no, but it seems insane.
Also, circumstancially, there are two mentions of "Summoner"; the first one lists the alignment (in parentheses after the role just like mine is where I'm informed of it at the top) but the second just says "if the Summoner [does things]", which seems like it wouldn't make sense if there were in fact multiple summoners.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 08:45:06 pm
@MAX:
Does your role tell you that the Summoner is Evil?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 08:47:15 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 08:48:02 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 08:49:04 pm
Come to think of it, maybe my blunderingly claiming my PDE day action could have been useful here, since scum know that my revive is probably legit and the main way they can get rid of it would be by pushing for my Elim today. Unless they have a day-block in which case I guess I just screwed up.Look for scum instead of thinking of excuses to save your ass.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2022, 08:49:34 pm
I am so sick of this.
@MAX:
Does your role tell you that the Summoner is Evil?
I also want to know the answer to this.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 08:52:16 pm
The Reviver should know whether or not we can be sure of the revived remaining Town. Presumably, a Priest would revive Town as Town. So, if Egan is Town, then the revival is safe. Otherwise, Egan is just a lying death cultist.A priest can res someone as anything. I have no idea where you're pulling this from. Just look at Supernatural 10 as the most recent example where town!Bluarian came back as a SK after Town Priest Luckyowl res'd them.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2022, 08:52:32 pm
I am so sick of this.
@MAX:
Does your role tell you that the Summoner is Evil?
I also want to know the answer to this.
If you don't say that your role explicitly tells you that the Summoner is Evil (with a capital E) I don't give a shit.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2022, 09:01:08 pm
No, fuck you.Come to think of it, maybe my blunderingly claiming my PDE day action could have been useful here, since scum know that my revive is probably legit and the main way they can get rid of it would be by pushing for my Elim today. Unless they have a day-block in which case I guess I just screwed up.Look for scum instead of thinking of excuses to save your ass.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2022, 09:07:28 pm
However, I do believe at least one scum was on Tric's wagon.
At this point, I'm thinking it's Jim.
Since the NQT wagon doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and I think Egan is Town, let's see if Jim Groovester is a more viable scummy target.
@Max & Knightwing64: Could we de-escalate your feud and have you both vote Jim? First to switch gets FREE Townpoints!
>:|
You don't think I'm scum. Stop it.
I read Day 2 and have some commentary about a few things, including generic commentary about some of the conversations going on. I should probably reread Day 1 again and reassess how I feel about everybody.
ToonyMan has already commented on a lot of the points I want to comment on but whatever.
Quote
Knightwing64 being a Good Witch Devil Summoner
I think I believe Knightwing64 here.
Quote
Maximum Spin being vulnerable to Knightwing64 the Witch Devil Summoner
I think I believe Maximum Spin here that if he gets offered a Devil Deal bad stuff happens, but not necessarily that Knightwing64 is immediately Evil because of it.
Quote
Evil (with a capital E) isn't necessarily monolithic
Alright, good to know. I might've read into the win condition too much and made too many assumptions.
Quote
multitaskers
I have abilities that are Free Actions so multitasking is possible in this game. The ability I used on hector13 was a Free Action if you are curious.
Quote
hector13 and Lenglon continuing to argue over stupid shit
Wow a repeat of Day 1 neato.
What does your win condition say?
“ You are a Summoner (Good). You win when all Evil Players are removed from the game, and there is at least one Good Player alive.”
Knightwing64 fired this off in less than two minutes after me asking about it. So if he's lying he had it ready to go, or he's telling the truth.
Max, why did you lie yesterday when you said you were against lies?
Not a fan of this vote today either.
You didn't answer me during Day 1 but I'll ask again, especially with the context of what people have been talking about during Day 2.
Do you believe that Maximum Spin is both telling the truth about him being vulnerable to Knightwing64 the Devil Summoner and already Evil?
Serial Killers are capital E Evil and we can't win of they are still alive.
I meant to ask how you knew this yesterday but never quite got around to it.
KWMy claim seems suspicious? I literally… are you serious?You're giving out Devil powers... you must admit that's a little eyebrow-raising. What happens when you claim people's souls?
I'll give you that on its face Knightwing64's role and flavor don't look good, but it's also not uncommon for Supernatural games to subvert expectations regarding flavor. E.G., the town werebear and probably other examples that I'm not immediately recalling.
This day has felt a bit more muted. There's a lot less fire. Maybe I'm just not awake when they are but I don't feel I've heard much from 4mask, Jim, Vector, Egan. 4mask and Jim aren't even bothering to vote. I felt good about Jim yesterday but his hard defence of Max concerns me. 4mask continues to be dodge. There's scum in this pool.
I sort of tuned the game out after a while yesterday and I was working today so I ignored the game so I didn't let it affect my work performance, and let other things affect my work performance instead.
Could it also be that the mafia killed Persus who is just an Evil third-party here?
The more I ponder about this the more I think this is the case.
There have been angels in previous Supernaturals but I don't recall there ever being more than one in a game (though I haven't played all the Supernaturals and I'm not going to bother checking that I'm right). Persus13 being a solo Evil who got nightikilled by team Evil would explain why nobody has come forward to claim the kill.
Describe who you are and why you're here, right now.
I have some cards I want to keep hidden that would be revealed if I described my role flavor.
I find it curious how hard Jack is defending Egan when Egan is my top suspect for killing Persus.
It's possible someone else killed Persus, but my money is on Egan. I really want to hear from them more.
You point this out and I agree. Jack suddenly became very interested in turning votes away from Egan_BW.
Egan, what'd you do last night?
Are we sure that we want to narrow down who killed Evil!Persus?
Absolutely. Talk, now.
I asked if "we" are, not if YOU are. Does anyone else have opinions?
Knightwing: Should we narrow down who killed Persus?
That's reasonable. I did No Action.
This is a pretty conspicuous sequence from Egan_BW. Almost like he was posturing himself like he knew something about Persus13's killer but pulled himself back.
A’ight nobody fell into my trap, which wasn’t so much a trap as a hope that somebody would slip and fakeclaim something.
I have an action that tells me some roles present in the game, which is what I did N1.
I received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles I received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage.
This is a very boring role.
How many of each did it say?
I am not going to forget about this so you better put some numbers down.
I'm also bewildered why everyone is insisting that reviving Tric is a Very Bad thing.
You mean like that time a Priest revived a dead player into a demon
Or like that time a Priest revived a dead player onto the scumteam
Or like that time a Priest revived a dead player into a demon again
Yeah why would anybody not like revives in Supernaturals.
Egan just looks like their Town self. Goofy, fun-loving, and clearly enjoys being a part of Forum Mafia as a low-effort Townie.
I might have more semi- relevant experience with Egan as scum, as the GM of the Forum Paranoia game. Egan as scum is generally a cool, focused professional committed to the win.
You know my impression of scum Egan_BW is that they completely disappear like they did in Jade Court.
EuchreJack is spending a lot of effort into defending Egan_BW for whatever reason.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 09:08:46 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 26, 2022, 09:10:35 pm
Fucking Christ
I’m going to bed.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 26, 2022, 09:14:37 pm
I'd like to note that I have at least one granted ability that involves bodies and is pro-town, and also that I'm pretty skeptical of NQT's claim that that was their night action, especially as what was pretty close to a last-claim I think (I don't know where NQT claimed I just saw it recently added to Leng's list).
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 26, 2022, 09:15:36 pm
Yeet!
Post by: Lenglon on September 26, 2022, 09:21:20 pm
Still not really here but skimming through what I've missed today I noticed a comment about destroying Tric's body because a lot of body-related actions are anti-town.It's from here:
I'd like to note that I have at least one granted ability that involves bodies and is pro-town, and also that I'm pretty skeptical of NQT's claim that that was their night action, especially as what was pretty close to a last-claim I think (I don't know where NQT claimed I just saw it recently added to Leng's list).
Can you tell us what you tried to do last night? If it's an action that isn't known then tell us who the target was suppose to be and why.I'm a Sexton with a few boosted abilities to do with binding and putting to rest souls. N1, I was going to destroy Tric's corpse as resurrections are like 50/50 anti-town, and zombie killers have been a thing in other games. Tonight, I intend to prevent Persus from being resurrected or whatever else, by destroying his corpse. This should be confirmable.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 09:32:51 pm
Still not really here but skimming through what I've missed today I noticed a comment about destroying Tric's body because a lot of body-related actions are anti-town.Max claimed they role-blocked NQT quite early on D2. NQT claiming late doesn't really mean much to me in this situation.
I'd like to note that I have at least one granted ability that involves bodies and is pro-town, and also that I'm pretty skeptical of NQT's claim that that was their night action, especially as what was pretty close to a last-claim I think (I don't know where NQT claimed I just saw it recently added to Leng's list).
It's also pretty unlikely that NQT killed Persus. Even if they had free actions like Jim has they would have still been blocked by Max.
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2022, 09:36:11 pm
webadict: Would a Serial Killer be considered Evil in this game?That is entirely possible. If you're speaking purely archetypal, a Serial Killer could be anything: Evil, Neutral, Good. They merely have the tools to kill all Players. If you're speaking purely by win condition, then they would fit under Evil or Neutral, depending on the setup.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 09:37:03 pm
This is how town loses games. You're here to post, but not to help.No, fuck you.Come to think of it, maybe my blunderingly claiming my PDE day action could have been useful here, since scum know that my revive is probably legit and the main way they can get rid of it would be by pushing for my Elim today. Unless they have a day-block in which case I guess I just screwed up.Look for scum instead of thinking of excuses to save your ass.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 09:42:02 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2022, 09:58:16 pm
Okay, then no, I don't know if Knightwing is Evil by alignment, I only know his wincon.
I don't think you've explicitly stated what the win condition is other than calling it an SK.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 10:05:00 pm
I don't think you've explicitly stated what the win condition is other than calling it an SK.Are there multiple meanings to that? He wins by killing everyone else.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2022, 10:08:22 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2022, 10:17:00 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2022, 12:28:11 am
So EJ’s weird voting extended a couple of hours before he voted me for stupid reasons, and gosh it looks bad. He unvotes here, 7 hours (got extended a little after this) before day end:
Unvote since I'm feeling better about NQT.
And immediately voted Toony for rolefishing in the next post, and the post after that because he’s voting Town!Tric which, to be fair, Toony was. However, he goes into a minor rant over Toony rolefishing when he wasn’t, and implied Tric fullclaiming in a power heavy game would be bad.
Toony and EJ have a back and forth over the other person voting a townie, not a great deal, EJ concludes voting Toony is good (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410515#msg8410515), but changes his mind 10 minutes later in his next post, citing not being around for day end, FoS’ing Vector.
He makes some chat later because nobody other than Tric posts, gets in his own head about Max (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410543#msg8410543) and says the Max wagon, at 5 votes, is for some reason less strong than the 4mask wagon, at 3. He then posts links to Vector’s posts and convinces himself Vector is okay. Says afterward he actively despises the 4mask wagon, saying that he feels it built up in a scummy way (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410557#msg8410557), even though at this point he seems to have come to the conclusion that two of the three people on the wagon at this point - Jim, Toony, Vector - are probably town. He gets asked about what he means by Lenglon and posts this response:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
He implies Jim, NQT, and MaxSpin are throwing shade on 4mask, “building the wagon in a scummy way”, fails to cite any of Toony’s posts in the case he spent a great deal of time pushing on 4mask and Tric (despite him thinking Toony is town!) and instead of voting for Jim, still on the 4mask wagon, he elects to vote for NQT, despite Max, the other person “scumilly building” 4mask’s wagon, voting for NQT.
Notable also that during the time EJ unvoted NQT, saying he felt better about him, and the time he voted him again, NQT doesn’t post.
His final vote of the day (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605) is piggybacking Persus’ vote on me, reasoning “fuck it”. He earlier in that post also says he doesn’t have time to look into me, despite having spent the previous 4.5 hours and 45 game posts going through 4masks wagon and some of the points made against him by others (conveniently ignoring Toony’s case, the biggest proponent of the 4mask elimination at that point) and clearing Vector through her posts.
I find it difficult to reconcile the ostensibly methodical EJ he was seeking to present between his unvote and revote of NQT, and the lackadaisical and homicidal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410758#msg8410758) EJ he became at day end.
On top of this, as Jim pointed out, EJ played in Jade Court, the game in which scum!Egan disappeared completely off the face of the earth, much like this game.
So yeah, I was going to look into Jim too, as the teams my gut were telling me were likely were Egan/EJ and Jim/Max, but I think I managed to convince myself the remaining guys are Egan and EJ. I’ll probably do this tomorrow at some point.
So yeah, consider this an intent to vote Egan without actually doing it ‘cause I’m going to bed and don’t want to waste time other folk may want to discuss things, in the case of a hammer.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 12:34:28 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2022, 12:49:36 am
A’ight nobody fell into my trap, which wasn’t so much a trap as a hope that somebody would slip and fakeclaim something.
I have an action that tells me some roles present in the game, which is what I did N1.
I received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles I received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage.
This is a very boring role.
How many of each did it say?
I am not going to forget about this so you better put some numbers down.
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2022, 01:22:35 am
But no. I think it gives too much space for fakeclaiming to reveal numbers, at least right now.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2022, 01:58:45 am
Why, if you claimed your results, as more of the set up is revealed we can see that i) you are absolutely not performing night kills, and ii) you could not be making your results up. Both of these things increase the likelihood that you are town, especially as the game goes on.
But you won't because I think you made it all up and don't want to be tested on it. Which is why you didn't claim the actual numbers immediately anyway.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 27, 2022, 02:12:54 am
Max: I realized that I have a weird and kinda redundant / nonsensical mental map of what exactly your roleblock that you used last night actually does. Could you re-summarize it for me?At the moment I used it, it's just a roleblock. It blocks one person's action like any other roleblock. Under the right circumstances, it will instead block the mafiakill, specifically, and publically announce the intended target.
Haven't read rest of thread yet.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 06:46:44 am
NotQuiteThere
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 06:47:19 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 06:57:35 am
(Incidentally, I would be willing to accept your revive if it's guaranteed not to resurrect me as something other than town.)
4mask, what's your case?
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 07:05:58 am
You didn't answer me during Day 1 but I'll ask again, especially with the context of what people have been talking about during Day 2.I think Max is very likely to be scum of some kind. He may have been baiting an gift from an Evil Summoner. I don't have any reason to believe he is telling the absolute truth, especially as he's hardly said anything clearly.
Do you believe that Maximum Spin is both telling the truth about him being vulnerable to Knightwing64 the Devil Summoner and already Evil?
Isn't this how serial killers always work? If town kill of the mafia team, the serial killer doesn't lose: the town still have to hunt the SK down. Supernatural is no exception. How do you think it works?Serial Killers are capital E Evil and we can't win of they are still alive.I meant to ask how you knew this yesterday but never quite got around to it.
I'll give you that on its face Knightwing64's role and flavor don't look good, but it's also not uncommon for Supernatural games to subvert expectations regarding flavor. E.G., the town werebear and probably other examples that I'm not immediately recalling.Yeah sure, I just don't understand mechanically how it's meant to help town.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 07:09:04 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 27, 2022, 07:09:51 am
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 07:18:35 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 27, 2022, 08:27:13 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 08:36:07 am
Why did Max go from claiming that the witch is evil to asking it for favours?
Why does Jim et al believe Max is any way townsided??
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 08:41:48 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 27, 2022, 08:48:04 am
Tomorrow I'll be able to say for sure whether we should kill Knightwing. ToonyMan could be right, after all. In the meantime, we can resolve you instead. Knightwing at least sounds like he wants to be townread, while you don't even. I thought Knightwing was evil, but it's obviously not anyone else's priority, and those who have made it not their priority do have a good point, so I don't mind leaving it to worry about later, at least in the light of a new (literal) day.
Incidentally, EuchreJack, just to be safe, I think we should both use that block tonight, if the game isn't over (which seems probable, because I think there's more than two scum). If you have some other fancy ability you'd rather use, I won't tell you not to, but it's always good to prevent mafiakills. If we both do it, then it'll still work even if one of us gets vigged or something.
Relatedly, I'd appreciate some protection tonight if anyone has that ability. If you trust me less than EuchreJack, protect him instead, but it'll make me feel bad. At any rate someone with the blocking ability should be protected.
Post by: Mamobo on September 27, 2022, 09:46:44 am
------------------------
-> Egan_BW --3-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411395#msg8411395), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411716#msg8411716),
-> notquitethere --3-- Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411160#msg8411160), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411861#msg8411861), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411974#msg8411974),
Jim Groovester --1-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411768#msg8411768),
4maskwolf --0--
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411683#msg8411683), hector13, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411952#msg8411952),
6 to Hammer. Day ends on September 28, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~34 hours remaining).
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2022, 11:07:31 am
That's very convenient reasoning to not put a claim on the line.
Why, if you claimed your results, as more of the set up is revealed we can see that i) you are absolutely not performing night kills, and ii) you could not be making your results up. Both of these things increase the likelihood that you are town, especially as the game goes on.
But you won't because I think you made it all up and don't want to be tested on it. Which is why you didn't claim the actual numbers immediately anyway.
Fair, it is selfish reasoning seeing as I’m the only one who knows the numbers, and I s’pose on reconsidering it would at least allow the holders of the roles to actually call out fakeclaims that don’t match my numbers.
*sighs* fine. For the greater good. There is 1 Mystic, 1 Wizard, and 1 Sage.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 11:11:29 am
Something like that
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2022, 11:12:39 am
Hey, Knightwing. If you're Good, then there should be no downside to sending me a Devil Deal, so go ahead and do that tonight, okay? If you're telling the truth about your alignment, I'll be able to confirm it, and it will both benefit you and upgrade me with no downsides whatsoever.
Uh,
There's a devil-summoning witch, the "Summoner", who has an ability called Devil Deal that I imagine is somehow related to the devil role someone mentioned a long time ago. There also seems to be a team of "Monsters".
The "Monsters" are only suggested in flavortext, but the witch is just about definite, because my role specifically reacts (badly) to the use of that ability, which would have effectively recruited me if it had hit. It's hard to imagine something that specific would be meant as a red herring.
Yeah I'm going to take the very bold position of saying I don't like this.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 11:15:45 am
Persus was a Mystic so do any other Mystics want to contest Hector's claim?That's very convenient reasoning to not put a claim on the line.
Why, if you claimed your results, as more of the set up is revealed we can see that i) you are absolutely not performing night kills, and ii) you could not be making your results up. Both of these things increase the likelihood that you are town, especially as the game goes on.
But you won't because I think you made it all up and don't want to be tested on it. Which is why you didn't claim the actual numbers immediately anyway.
Fair, it is selfish reasoning seeing as I’m the only one who knows the numbers, and I s’pose on reconsidering it would at least allow the holders of the roles to actually call out fakeclaims that don’t match my numbers.
*sighs* fine. For the greater good. There is 1 Mystic, 1 Wizard, and 1 Sage.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 11:17:19 am
I don't see the problem if you think KW is Good.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 11:20:34 am
NQT is voting you to save himself, why aren't you voting?
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 11:21:05 am
Yeah I'm going to take the very bold position of saying I don't like this.
I felt like I was going nuts, you're like the only other person seeing this.
@Jim:But Max doesn't!! At best you can say his negative-to-agnostic:
I don't see the problem if you think KW is Good.
I decided I like you less than Knightwing.
Tomorrow I'll be able to say for sure whether we should kill Knightwing. ToonyMan could be right, after all.
@Egan:Bad read of it. The votes piled on me after I voted Egan.
NQT is voting you to save himself, why aren't you voting?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 11:24:47 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 11:36:01 am
All to say, there's 13 players, so we can expect 3-5 anti-town players.Spoiler: Previous Compositions (click to show/hide)
With 13 players, we can expect about 4 anti-town players. There could well be two scum teams given that Persus was ritually carved up by someone last night.
Who are the three remaining evil players?
(https://i.imgur.com/XfNs0bS.png)
- I think Egan is clearly best fit for the killer, and has no alibi or any confirmable action.
- 4mask has been one of the dodgiest low-effort posters in the game. He's an active-lurker extraordinaire.
- Max has been trying to bait an 'evil witch' deal the whole game; when actually presented with a witch he had claimed was evil, he prevaricates. Absolute pond scum.
Are they all on the same team? Probably not, there are probably multiple evil factions as is often the case (see compositions above). But I would like to start clearing through!
Post by: EuchreJack on September 27, 2022, 11:48:27 am
Like seriously, why pressure Hector for the number of each role, if he was NOT looking for a fake claim.
@Jim: What is your role?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 27, 2022, 11:50:42 am
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2022, 11:56:04 am
Equally so at this point, someone has to do something to break the tie. I’m intrigued to see what that something is.
EJ, if you think we’re being mislead by scum, why are you voting Jim, who is on neither of the current leading wagons?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 12:15:53 pm
Is NQT solo evil? Maybe, but it's unlikely they killed Persus.
Is NQT on a team of Evil? Maybe, but who is it with? Vector feels the most likely to me, however I know confidently that Vector didn't kill Persus either.
So I can't vote NQT in good faith here because I'm not seeing a strong possibility they're Evil beyond not claiming a monster tag, which I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. I feel as though NQT has spent this entire game fending off massive wagons which seems odd if they have scum support unless town just completely sniped him.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 12:17:42 pm
I dislike Knightwing's claim. I don't think Knightwing is who we need to vote here, but I'm fairly certain KW is not friendly and will need to be dealt with eventually.
I dislike Max's request for Knightwing to make an offer to him. Max literally has a roleblock. Max should be roleblocking Knightwing from making offers in general in order to prevent Knightwing from making an offer to Max.
I dislike almost every argument NQT has made. I don't see how NQT wouldn't be scum here, and I don't see how NQT would be on the same faction as Egan, since NQT seems to be designed to counter Egan, so flipping NQT should also be a way to clear Egan, or if NQT is somehow good it would be a better reason to lynch Egan.
I dislike a number of Hector's arguments, and think there's a decent chance Hector and NQT are on the same faction. So a flip of NQT would be telling here as well. If NQT flips scum then I can start looking at Hector seriously as possible scum, if NQT flips town then I'll know I probably should be looking elsewhere.
I dislike all theories saying the Perseus was an SK, because that would require Perseus be an SK without night-kill protection in a 13-player game. Perseus was part of the Evil (mafia) faction. Perseus's killer might have been an SK, sure, but Perseus themselves? Not likely.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 12:23:42 pm
Somebody convert me to evil
I can’t stand this anymore
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 12:24:45 pm
I dislike almost every argument NQT has made. I don't see how NQT wouldn't be scum here, and I don't see how NQT would be on the same faction as Egan, since NQT seems to be designed to counter Egan, so flipping NQT should also be a way to clear Egan, or if NQT is somehow good it would be a better reason to lynch Egan.Spoilers: I was going to shoot NQT tonight if Tric isn't around thanks to Egan (assuming we lynch Egan and they're Good). Seriously Egan stop the resurrection it has a good chance to be terrible.
I dislike a number of Hector's arguments, and think there's a decent chance Hector and NQT are on the same faction. So a flip of NQT would be telling here as well. If NQT flips scum then I can start looking at Hector seriously as possible scum, if NQT flips town then I'll know I probably should be looking elsewhere.I like the argument that Persus was probably on the mafia team and not SK, but then you're saying Persus and Hector would be on the same team then which I disagree with.
I dislike all theories saying the Perseus was an SK, because that would require Perseus be an SK without night-kill protection in a 13-player game. Perseus was part of the Evil (mafia) faction. Perseus's killer might have been an SK, sure, but Perseus themselves? Not likely.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 12:26:02 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 12:26:41 pm
Says the one who also has a monastery ability and claims town, but whatever. That’s "totally different”Die and let Egan res you. There's a good chance you will be.
Somebody convert me to evil
I can’t stand this anymore
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 12:28:10 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 27, 2022, 12:29:36 pm
Jendnrmdkdk
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 12:37:30 pm
Knightwing: I'm happy as long as you don't get three successful deals. I don't see us lynching you today at all, the earliest you should be considered for lynch is once you have two deals, meaning tomorrow. And even then I don't think it's necessary unless you actually get that second accepted deal. So you aren't going to see me voting you here unless something changes.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 12:43:19 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 01:09:19 pm
also Toony, I had intended to jailkeep NQT tonight if they were alive, so I think we need to establish right now if I should be doing that or not. I can rotate to an alternate suspicious individual easily enough so that I don't block your shot.That's true. Try to jailkeep NQT then.
I intend to shoot Tric if they come back tonight, but I'll figure out what to do otherwise.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 01:19:22 pm
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 01:21:56 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2022, 01:27:08 pm
I should probably post my thoughts about other players at some point. That'll probably have to wait until after work.
@Jim:
I don't see the problem if you think KW is Good.
I might think that, but do I think it's possible for Knightwing64 and Maximum Spin to change alignment from Good/Not Evil to Evil if they do exactly what Maximum Spin has been warning against? I do.
I can't reason through why Maximum Spin, who has been warning about the Devil Summoning Witch the whole game, is now okay with doing what he's been warning against.
Like seriously, why pressure Hector for the number of each role, if he was NOT looking for a fake claim.
hector13's role is very easily testable and very difficult to falsify. If he's making it up it's going to be very apparent very quickly, at which point we can lynch him.
@Jim: What is your role?
Not going to claim.
Bite me, etc.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 01:31:26 pm
NQT: Yes, I do know that revives have gone poorly. I know it has happened repeatedly. In fact, hasn't it happened without fail every single time?
I think Web would break that pattern by making it actually real for once, and simply give the scum a way to counter the revive.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 01:36:44 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 01:46:16 pm
Toony, if we lynch NQT and he flips scum, would you still need to shoot Tric?I would, yes.
NQT: Yes, I do know that revives have gone poorly. I know it has happened repeatedly. In fact, hasn't it happened without fail every single time?I was a town priest in a past game and brought Zombie Urist back successfully as town, so it can definitely work. From rereading that game the scum tried to argue ZU was bad but I defended ZU pretty hard and ended up being right.
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 01:46:53 pm
How do you know there even is one mafia team? Lone necromancers, line dark magi, and opposing scum teams have all appeared in the past. I don't know what your wincon really is, but mine is to defeat Evil and SK roles and secondary scum teams are Evil.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 01:49:31 pm
No, there have definitely been successful revives in the past. It's very silly to think it's a sure thing one way or the other or pretend its without risks.EVERYONE SHOULD VOTE NQT FOR THIS POST
How do you know there even is one mafia team? Lone necromancers, line dark magi, and opposing scum teams have all appeared in the past. I don't know what your wincon really is, but mine is to defeat Evil and SK roles and secondary scum teams are Evil.
specifically this part right here:
Quote
I don't know what your wincon really is, but mine is to defeat Evil and SK roles and secondary scum teams are Evil.That is not the Good wincon.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 01:50:16 pm
Toony, this doesn't seem consistent. Please explain.Toony, if we lynch NQT and he flips scum, would you still need to shoot Tric?I would, yes.NQT: Yes, I do know that revives have gone poorly. I know it has happened repeatedly. In fact, hasn't it happened without fail every single time?I was a town priest in a past game and brought Zombie Urist back successfully as town, so it can definitely work. From rereading that game the scum tried to argue ZU was bad but I defended ZU pretty hard and ended up being right.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 01:51:17 pm
Nobody else explain it.
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 01:52:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 01:54:42 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 01:58:29 pm
I wanted to point out the only time I remember it going well. Every other game I was in I don't recall it ever working in town's favor.Toony, this doesn't seem consistent. Please explain.Toony, if we lynch NQT and he flips scum, would you still need to shoot Tric?I would, yes.NQT: Yes, I do know that revives have gone poorly. I know it has happened repeatedly. In fact, hasn't it happened without fail every single time?I was a town priest in a past game and brought Zombie Urist back successfully as town, so it can definitely work. From rereading that game the scum tried to argue ZU was bad but I defended ZU pretty hard and ended up being right.
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 01:59:27 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2022, 02:02:48 pm
speaking of, Hector: where do you think the mafiakill went?
I’ve no idea. Persus and I were the only ones available to kill, so unless something weird happened that resulted Persus on the mafia team getting hit by the mafiakill (nobody has claimed anything like that) then I think the only possible things that happened are the mafiakill either didn’t happen, the mafiakill was blocked, or one of the people with unverifiable actions is lying about something.
I don’t know if infects or poisons are possible in Supernaturals and I don’t have time right now to check it out, but if I die at some point before D3 with that kind of flavour then yeah, that’ll be what happened. Jim has claimed nobody visited me though, so that seems an unlikely outcome, and would obviously throw a lot of attention on Jim.
PPE: many posts again
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 02:05:28 pm
I'm seriously curious what the hell Lenglon thought they read.The Good wincon says nothing about SKs. I saw a straight scumslip.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 02:06:05 pm
I'm seriously curious what the hell Lenglon thought they read.The way you phrased it the first time read like your wincon was to defeat mafia and SKs, but I could tell you were just trying to say that secondary mafia teams and SKs would be under Evil as well.
I believe Lenglon's earnest "we gotcha now!!" by interpreting your sentence as a scumslip strikes me as genuine.
I think Lenglon is very clearly Neutral at this point. Webadict has mentioned Good, Neutral, and Evil as our three alignments. And we know Lenglon has claimed not Evil, but also isn't Good.
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 02:10:25 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2022, 02:12:39 pm
That would be weird.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 02:12:58 pm
I don't think it was a scumslip but I wasn't going to pass on giving NQT a heart attack. Maybe that's mean given their circumstances. Either way, he's not caught scum since we can assume the Evil have the Good wincon word for word thanks to you telling us non-Good players have access to it...wait a second.I'm seriously curious what the hell Lenglon thought they read.The Good wincon says nothing about SKs. I saw a straight scumslip.
For the record, any townread I had of Jack that relates to Good=Green is incorrect. Evil!Jack would have that information.
I need to update my reads for D2 as well.
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2022, 02:15:12 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 02:18:36 pm
If SKs aren’t Evil, wouldn’t that mean town could win with SKs alive?I had this same conundrum earlier which is why I was asking Web how Evil decides ties. He was very unhelpful.
That would be weird.
If it's not an Evil SK then it's a separate Evil force, but either way there has to be split Evil forces or else Persus wouldn't have died. SKs can't be Neutral because then Good could win with them.
Otherwise:
1. Persus killed himself - this is dumb without some huge payoff
2. A Neutral player working for Evil killed an Evil by accident - this is hilarious but why give a mally a kill? Seems OP
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 02:20:38 pm
Jim seems town because of their method of questioning Hector, but only mildly so. He seems to be mostly watchful from the side
Hector I think I've made my opinion quite clear on and I don't understand why you asked that question of me.
4mask seems likely town to me, the change to my role made sense as a thing to do, was a confirmable action, and has commited him to performing confirmable actions for the next several nights as well.
so, yeah, I'm not very interested in them, they seem town. moving on.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 02:30:32 pm
Hector's position reagarding me feels scummy to me, but it's not a major tell. From my perspective scum are going to want to keep me around because they can "investigate the Third-Party" as a safe way to active-lurk. Hector's case for why I'm a problem is entirely based on my claim at the very beginning of Day 1 (and it's not actually consistent about if he believes I'm telling the truth or not), and he's actively refused to perform real follow up or vote me, but still pitches a fit about it periodically. This is effectively active-lurking. Hector's pressure on not-me is very lackluster and barely extant at all. He has refused to use his vote in a meaningful way so far in general. However, he hasn't actively done anything scummy. I have no case against Hector right now, but I consider Hector my lynch of choice for any time I don't actually see anyone scummy to lynch. To me he's a lurker.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 02:32:22 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2022, 02:50:13 pm
Didn’t you say earlier that your presence doesn’t count toward the Good wincon? Why would scum want you out of the game, via elimination or NK, if that’s the case?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 02:57:11 pm
I am hoping they will mafiakill me before we reach MYLO/LYLO.They won't.
Didn’t you say earlier that your presence doesn’t count toward the Good wincon? Why would scum want you out of the game, via elimination or NK, if that’s the case?They won't.
It's the same reason why they won't kill Tric if he comes back. Even if he comes back town he's perfect mislynch fodder.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 03:11:10 pm
Didn’t you say earlier that your presence doesn’t count toward the Good wincon? Why would scum want you out of the game, via elimination or NK, if that’s the case?You answered you own question here. Scum don't want me out. That's why I view your lack of action as scummy. If you're Good on the other hand, then scum DO want you out. We're in different situations even though our actions towards each other are similar. Though I believe I've been rather active following up on my other leads, which to my eyes you have not been anything of the kind.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 03:12:41 pm
They might if I can make myself a sufficient PITA. Tis part of why I want to play aggro here.I am hoping they will mafiakill me before we reach MYLO/LYLO.They won't.
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2022, 03:44:28 pm
It’s almost as though I have other things to do that limit my ability to play mafia to the standards of the forum, and when someone posts nonsense I feel the need to clear up that eats into that limited time further.Didn’t you say earlier that your presence doesn’t count toward the Good wincon? Why would scum want you out of the game, via elimination or NK, if that’s the case?You answered you own question here. Scum don't want me out. That's why I view your lack of action as scummy. If you're Good on the other hand, then scum DO want you out. We're in different situations even though our actions towards each other are similar. Though I believe I've been rather active following up on my other leads, which to my eyes you have not been anything of the kind.
I suppose that post I made earlier looking into EJ was totes active-lurking though, even though I made reference to being bothered by EJ earlier in the day.
I’m not the only one with a lack of activity, regardless. What makes my lack of activity so special in comparison to… basically everyone who isn’t Toony, NQT, or you? Arguably Jim, too.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 03:47:50 pm
Not as much as I'd like. As I said, you're only mildly scummy to my eyes, and in no world are you today's lynch. NQT asked my eval of you so I gave it.It’s almost as though I have other things to do that limit my ability to play mafia to the standards of the forum, and when someone posts nonsense I feel the need to clear up that eats into that limited time further.Didn’t you say earlier that your presence doesn’t count toward the Good wincon? Why would scum want you out of the game, via elimination or NK, if that’s the case?You answered you own question here. Scum don't want me out. That's why I view your lack of action as scummy. If you're Good on the other hand, then scum DO want you out. We're in different situations even though our actions towards each other are similar. Though I believe I've been rather active following up on my other leads, which to my eyes you have not been anything of the kind.
I suppose that post I made earlier looking into EJ was totes active-lurking though, even though I made reference to being bothered by EJ earlier in the day.
I’m not the only one with a lack of activity, regardless. What makes my lack of activity so special in comparison to… basically everyone who isn’t Toony, NQT, or you? Arguably Jim, too.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 04:23:12 pm
I suppose that post I made earlier looking into EJ was totes active-lurking though, even though I made reference to being bothered by EJ earlier in the day.I like the EJ post. Jack definitely didn't mind if you died yesterday, in fact they we encouraging me and Max to vote you. I think this at least means that you and Jack are not scum partners.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 07:10:21 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 27, 2022, 07:44:32 pm
I might think that, but do I think it's possible for Knightwing64 and Maximum Spin to change alignment from Good/Not Evil to Evil if they do exactly what Maximum Spin has been warning against? I do.Fair, but not what I was warning against.
I can't reason through why Maximum Spin, who has been warning about the Devil Summoning Witch the whole game, is now okay with doing what he's been warning against.
It's simple: I reflected and realized that, now that everyone knows who the witch is, there's no significant downside and, if Knightwing really is Good, a large potential upside. Neither of our wincons will change - I wouldn't actually want to do that if it did; while KW might want to become Evil now, I don't - so nothing prevents me from just saying "lynch Knightwing" tomorrow if it turns out badly. Which I will.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 07:49:03 pm
Max: Are you currently Neutral? I know I've asked this before, but it's very relevant to the current conversation.I might think that, but do I think it's possible for Knightwing64 and Maximum Spin to change alignment from Good/Not Evil to Evil if they do exactly what Maximum Spin has been warning against? I do.Fair, but not what I was warning against.
I can't reason through why Maximum Spin, who has been warning about the Devil Summoning Witch the whole game, is now okay with doing what he's been warning against.
It's simple: I reflected and realized that, now that everyone knows who the witch is, there's no significant downside and, if Knightwing really is Good, a large potential upside. Neither of our wincons will change - I wouldn't actually want to do that if it did; while KW might want to become Evil now, I don't - so nothing prevents me from just saying "lynch Knightwing" tomorrow if it turns out badly. Which I will.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 08:02:27 pm
I read all of Persus' post on D1 and I want to share how that went.
Let the hunt begin. (https://youtu.be/uDb2MxUl31w)
D1 Persus
#76 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409208#msg8409208) - Persus' first post. He remarks about the setup. He responses to Lenglon's miller claim in a "hmmmm" way. He responds to Toony telling Tric not to claim their role like last Supernatural and asks Toony about past games.
This is a fine opening post.
#101 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409263#msg8409263) - Persus softly asks Knightwing if they've played with them before and what their mafia experience is since they recognize KW the least.
Fine.
#158 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409438#msg8409438) - Persus responds to Jack/Max/Toony talking about cult flavor and how sometimes they're just killers and sometimes they're converters. Persus asks Jack why they are scumreading Jim. Persus responds to Toony roasting them from Supernatural 7. Persus FoS NQT for trying to figure out game flavor/mechanics early before we even have D2 flavor.
This post might imply Persus expected to survive to D2, so his death may have been unexpected to him.
Also suspecting NQT in general might mean NQT is not Evil, or not Evil with Persus.
#160 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409445#msg8409445) - Persus finds Knightwing suspicious for getting defensive when Max attacks KW.
This looks like a natural attack on Persus' part.
#169 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409469#msg8409469) - Persus likes most of NQT's stuff, but thinks some of NQT's questions to 4mask seem overblown but isn't sure since it's ongoing. Persus questions why Tric used the word mislynches against Max.
Soft prodding at NQT and Tric. Looks natural.
#193 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409551#msg8409551) - Lenglon asks Persus what their top 3 scum right now are and why since Lenglon feels they aren't fully engaged in scumhunting. Persus says they would shoot Tric, NQT, and 4mask. Persus gives justifications for each of these players. Persus gives Hector/Toony/Jim strong town reads. Thinks Lenglon is the person that wastes people's time on D1. Isn't sure about Jack, Knightwing, and Max since he doesn't know them well. Forgot Vector and Egan were even in the game. Asks a question to Vector and Egan.
This is a really important post. Let's thank Lenglon for having them make it.
I think it's unlikely both NQT and 4mask are Evil from this post unless Persus was completely bussing them.
One could be Evil, or none.
#209 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409602#msg8409602) - Persus votes Tric so he'll answer his question about mislynches. Responds to Jack and asks them what their read on Jim is. Thanks Jack for the response and the funny Jim post they linked.
Fine.
#249 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409761#msg8409761) - Tells Lenglon that their yellow roleplay text is unreadable in light mode.
Fine.
#283 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409975#msg8409975) - Persus isn't happy with the 4mask lynch because Knightwing's vote was RVS, Jack's vote was random, and NQT's vote is purely tactical. Finds 4mask and Tric both hard to read, but thinks town 4mask is more useful than town Tric. Persus votes Knightwing (off of Tric) here because he wants them to justify their vote on 4mask. Also remarks they need to go through Jack's posts and see if there's more of a reason for them voting 4mask. Let's Tric off the hook after being neutral about them. Explains why they voted Tric to Lenglon.
Persus looks like they care about 4mask here since they're voting Knightwing for having a questionable 4mask vote.
#315 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410027#msg8410027) - Tells Knightwing there's plenty of time left in D1 for them to post.
Fine.
Knightwing's post here is more reason why I think they're by themselves and probably Good.
#386 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410269#msg8410269) - Was going to post today but is tired of stuff going on in-thread and is just going to go to sleep. Will try to post tomorrow morning and be around for day end.
They kept this promise.
#419 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410439#msg8410439) - Persus gives Toony a reason for why Max would spill a bunch of info.
This post feels very much like Persus and Max have no relationship.
#423 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452) - "Random Thought 3: Given all the buddying going on, part of me is paranoid that webadict did the two scumteams trick again." Thinks Max doesn't really have a grand plan and is flaily. Doesn't really see Max as scum, but if he was scum then his partners must be Egan or Vector or someone less active like that. Unvotes Knightwing for feeling like panicked town. Votes Hector because Persus feels Hector is coasting. Responds to Hector's lukewarm town read of Jack, thinks Hector is copying Toony's case on 4mask. Asks Egan if they have a favorite town or scum game they've played. Reponds to Vector's FoS towards them about their reads, says that Tric and Max feels like town vs town. Thinks Toony is town but some of his takes are weirdly overconfident. Jim and Knightwing both feel fairly town. Is most suspicious of Hector. Isn't sure about Vector or Egan because they haven't posted enough. Isn't as sure about his top 3 scum reads of Tric/4mask/NQT that Lenglon asked him earlier in D1. Thinks Hector is more guilty than any of the three currently. Tells Tric that Max's behavior is classic town lynch play.
Another really important post with a lot to analyze.
Persus randomly mentions that he's worried Webadict did a two scumteam setup again. Persus was Evil so was this an honest paranoia? The irony is massive if he was killed by another scum team. The way Persus was killed looks extremely cult-like and not monster-y, but I'm not sure. We'll obviously learn more as people get killed.
Persus starts to vote Hector here after unvoting Knightwing.
Gives updated reads on everyone except Jack, oops must have forgot I guess.
#424 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410453#msg8410453) - Adds in they forgot to remove the Toony header they ended up posting as #419 instead.
Fine.
#426 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410456#msg8410456) - Responds to 4mask being confused by Max's roleclaim by pointing out that the "effectively recruited" part seems weird. "How are you effectively recruited? Someone takes your role or tells you what to do?"
Maybe that's what Max means if someone offers him a Devil Deal. It's not a conversion so much as a takeover. Like maybe they take all of Max's abilities and their vote?
#427 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410457#msg8410457) - Responds to Lenglon that their guess on the setup sounds like the Good, Bad, and the Ugly game they hosted.
Fine.
#471 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410588#msg8410588) - Responds to Vector: "Unless someone tries to tie up the vote at day end, I'll probably stick with my vote. I'm not convinced Max is scum, but I think his flip gives us a lot of info still, same if 4maskwolf or NQT winds up overtaking him. Hector's response to my post was a decent response, but not enough to make me unvote and make me not want to see his flip." Tells Hector they're happy they added to their 4mask case more, but still feels like they're pointing out what others noticed first.
Persus is content with Max being the leading wagon in this post.
Seems pretty fine if 4mask or NQT end up getting lynched instead of Max.
Isn't convinced by Hector's post and continues to vote them, Hector was only being voted by Persus at this point.
I believe this post means it's unlikely Persus was partners with any of Max, 4mask, NQT, or Hector.
Actual priority order would be something like Max > 4mask = NQT > Hector with Max meaning the least to Persus and 4mask and NQT probably not meaning much to Persus. Hector is interesting because he was the only vote on Hector so he could be bluffing and not expecting a big wagon to happen.
#475 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410603#msg8410603) - Tells NQT to deal with it when NQT tells Persus that a last second Hector push isn't going to happen.
Fine.
#520 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410701#msg8410701) - Persus' last post, 90 minutes before Day end. Hector has two votes now, the other by Jack. Continues to pressure Hector. Explains to Lenglon why Hector is suspect. Responds to Knightwing's question by telling him Lenglon was the first to mention three witches.
Persus' push on Hector looks convincing. I don't really see Hector as partners with Persus here.
And that's it. Persus doesn't post anymore D1 and Tric is executed.
The next day Persus is found dead with their belly cut open and their organs (plus feathers and wings) laid in a circle around him.
I don't get the impression he expected to die.
Not a single player voted Persus on D1.
Persus voted Tric, then Knightwing, then Hector on D1.
Vector FoS'd Persus once.
Persus FoS'D NQT once.
My opinion of compatibility level with Persus as a partner (I'm ignoring D2):
Most likely
Jack
Egan
Jim
Vector
Hector
4mask
NQT
Knightwing
Max
Lenglon
Least likely
Jack and Egan have a high possibility of being with Persus, Jack more than Egan.
Jim and Vector have a moderate possibility of being with Persus, Jim more than Vector.
Everyone else has a low possibility of being with Persus.
If Persus has a partner or partners I would guess they are within Jack/Egan/Jim/Vector.
If Persus doesn't have any partners I wasted my evening.
Bonus Content:
Tric's reads on D1 (they never changed so I can grab any post lol):
No, it's the one telling me not to claim when I've already decided on that. Believe 4mask said that's my only town tell afterward.
Also Jack. As stated, mostly going off of meta. This isn't town jack or town max to me. And as max said, they gel together. A Jack/Max/Toony scumteam makes sense in my head, though my read on Toony was a bit weaker when I made it.
In either case, my pick to lynch today is either max or jack. My townreads right now are.. Egan, NQT, Persus. Legnlon I'm reading as third party, but they're not really a threat at the moment. At least I know they're not scum, and those evildoers are the ones we need to lynch.(
Mostly worte this down in third, which given it's a response to you is odd, but eh.)
Tric scumreads Max/Jack/Toony.
Tric townreads Egan/NQT/Persus.
Tric thinks Lenglon is third-party.
PPE:
Max: Are you currently Neutral? I know I've asked this before, but it's very relevant to the current conversation.I think I have it figured out.
Max wouldn't get converted but it neuters him in some way ("effectively converted" in Max's words) that would be bad if Knightwing isn't Good.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 08:17:55 pm
On a second opinion I think Vector is a low possibility. Vector made Persus a possible kill target with Hector and Persus may have ended up dying for it. I don't think Vector would do that if they were partners with Persus.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I would swap Vector with 4mask. Persus gave a sort of defense to 4mask which might be alignment indicative. If 4mask is Good then I would replace 4mask with NQT here.
Most likely
Jack
Egan
Jim
4mask (replace with NQT if Good)
Hector
Vector
NQT
Knightwing
Max
Lenglon
Least likely
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 08:25:16 pm
#193 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8409551#msg8409551) - Lenglon asks Persus what their top 3 scum right now are and why since Lenglon feels they aren't fully engaged in scumhunting. Persus says they would shoot Tric, NQT, and 4mask. Persus gives justifications for each of these players. Persus gives Hector/Toony/Jim strong town reads. Thinks Lenglon is the person that wastes people's time on D1. Isn't sure about Jack, Knightwing, and Max since he doesn't know them well. Forgot Vector and Egan were even in the game. Asks a question to Vector and Egan.Rule of Three or powerwolfing is the real question and I haven't played with Persus in long enough to have a firm view on how he would play that.
This is a really important post. Let's thank Lenglon for having them make it.
I think it's unlikely both NQT and 4mask are Evil from this post unless Persus was completely bussing them.
One could be Evil, or none.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 08:33:15 pm
Toony is claiming town vigilante and didn't kill Persus, and thus thinks Persus' kill was anti-town.
Nobody has claimed the Persus kill so anti-town is more or less confirmed at this point.
Nobody has claimed redirection so Persus either was non-pack evil or was killed by non-pack evil.
The only other player permitted to die last night was hector13 who lived.
Nobody claimed protection on hector.
If these facts are all correct, then I think we can draw one of two (technically three) conclusions:
1. Persus was an SK or other evil third party.
2. One of hector13, NQT, or the nonconfirmable actions/no action claims are teamed with Persus.
3. This is BYOR 13 all over again and every evil player is an SK (knightwing is probably evil in this case)
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 08:38:07 pm
If Persus was a pack wolf I'm pretty sure that one of hector13 or NQT is a wolf.
Because either the nightkill got blocked (and NQT is the only person who claimed to be blocked and nobody else has claimed a block on someone) or the wolves didn't want to kill hector13.
And Persus really wanted hector dead so it was either a hellbus or hector is not-pack (in the situation of Persus being a pack wolf).
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 08:50:31 pm
Previous reads (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410584#msg8410584)
Day 2 Reads
Not Evil
Lenglon - no change
Good
Knightwing - no change
Max - I'm bumping up to solid Good, really think they're town here
Probably Good
Vector - raising up because of previously mentioned reasons
Jim - no change, would like to think they're town, has a bone to pick with Hector
Hector - raising a little bit due to Persus interactions, could still be Evil, has a bone to pick with Jack
4mask - I don't know, Jim liked their D1 responses to me and Vector was okay switching off them too. Could easily still be Evil but I'm raising a bit for now.
Maybe Good
Jack - dropped a lot, I'm kind of sick of them hard-defending players like Tric (who flipped town) and Egan (who we don't know) like they're a psychic guru, if I agree with Hector and Vector then Jack is Evil but I want to see more before I'd be willing to vote them. Really doesn't want Knightwing to blab about the power they offered them, and also doesn't want other players to accept deals which is super selfish.
NQT - dropped a bit, has been under the most amount of pressure out of any player so far, is also sick, could be town but could just as easily be mafia, don't really want to vote
Egan - dropped a bit, decided to res Tric and announce it to everyone?? maybe they're town
Jack may be completely right and town, but I've lost confidence and want to hear from Vector while I eat my foot.
I don't trust Egan's res even if they're town and wish they would understand that. The only reason I can think they're town is why did they announce they're going to res?? They could have just kept it to themselves. Not sure why Evil!Egan does that. I also think Evil!Egan would drop from the face of the Earth at this point in a game though.
PPE:
If Persus was a pack wolf I'm pretty sure that one of hector13 or NQT is a wolf.Maybe. It's a reasonable assertion.
Because either the nightkill got blocked (and NQT is the only person who claimed to be blocked and nobody else has claimed a block on someone) or the wolves didn't want to kill hector13.
And Persus really wanted hector dead so it was either a hellbus or hector is not-pack (in the situation of Persus being a pack wolf).
Post by: Mamobo on September 27, 2022, 08:53:55 pm
------------------------
-> Egan_BW --3-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411395#msg8411395), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411716#msg8411716),
-> notquitethere --3-- Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411160#msg8411160), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411861#msg8411861), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411974#msg8411974),
Jim Groovester --1-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411768#msg8411768),
4maskwolf --0--
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411683#msg8411683), hector13, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411952#msg8411952),
6 to Hammer. Day ends on September 28, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (23 hours and 6 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 08:55:02 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 09:03:17 pm
4mask: please link to the Rules of Powerwolfing you're talking about?Sorry that's some inside baseball terminology from MU.
Rule of Three is the idea that most wolves, when giving a list of three scum picks, will slot exactly one real wolf into their picks. 1/3 is a nice proportion that's comfortable, because it gives you plausible deniability to pick the "wrong" picks off your wolf list while not locking you into hard wolfhunting the majority of your team.
Powerwolfing refers to a style of wolf play that pushes wolf agenda above all else. Your goal is to rip through the town and throw the town into chaos and infighting by constantly flipping towns and win the game before the town gets its shit together and realizes what you're up to. Pushing lists of nothing but townies is pretty classic powerwolfing, so I was contrasting it against the more typical rule of three invocation.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 09:06:50 pm
Max was supposedly specifically mafiakill blocked.
So one of Hector, NQT, or Max if Persus is a pack wolf.
Which is much less useful.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 09:09:18 pm
Oh wait.No, max was the blocker, not the blocked, apparently his block has some kind of special mafiakill block under specific conditions that did not apply last night. His block was confirmed to work that way by Jack who got a copy of the action Max performed last night.
Max was supposedly specifically mafiakill blocked.
So one of Hector, NQT, or Max if Persus is a pack wolf.
Which is much less useful.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 27, 2022, 09:10:36 pm
Max: Are you currently Neutral? I know I've asked this before, but it's very relevant to the current conversation.I don't quite see the relevance, but I am still Good like I said before.
4mask: please link to the Rules of Powerwolfing you're talking about?He actually said "or", not "of". Meaning, I think, either "Rule of Three", which I'm guessing means the usual pattern "when mafia gives three suspects, expect exactly one to be mafia", applies, or maybe he's being clever and directly subverting it.
Never mind, he said the same thing himself.
Max was supposedly specifically mafiakill blocked.What? According to whom?
My action is confirmed by Jack anyway, but I think you're getting confused. My action can specifically block the mafiakill, but not when I used it last night.
And late again. Whatever. :P
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 09:10:51 pm
Oh okay I misread the helpful chart you made (thanks for that by the way!)Oh wait.No, max was the blocker, not the blocked, apparently his block has some kind of special mafiakill block under specific conditions that did not apply last night. His block was confirmed to work that way by Jack who got a copy of the action Max performed last night.
Max was supposedly specifically mafiakill blocked.
So one of Hector, NQT, or Max if Persus is a pack wolf.
Which is much less useful.
Which makes it a lot more helpful but still not guaranteed.
Post by: Lenglon on September 27, 2022, 09:19:42 pm
notquitethere -- attempted to destroy Tric's body, Roleblocked by Max
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- No Action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (Bind Souls, redirects two targets to each other).
hector13 -- received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage.
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- no-actioned, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
just making it so you don't have to scroll back so far to find this.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 09:28:50 pm
I'm not sure the ordering on Jim and Toony's claims so I'm not sure if they can be crossed off the list for sharing information that wasn't publicly known yet.
Of these I think Egan is the most likely, followed by Jim/Toony if one of them claimed after all information they could have revealed to the town was already known, followed by Vector, followed by hector. This is just off of actions and claims, not my personal opinion of their play.
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if this was another BYOR 13 with Persus, Knightwing, and Egan as three independent Evil "factions".
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 27, 2022, 09:30:53 pm
Vector and Toony are backing each other up.
I'm not sure the ordering on Jim and Toony's claims so I'm not sure if they can be crossed off the list for sharing information that wasn't publicly known yet.
Of these I think Egan is the most likely, followed by Jim/Toony if one of them claimed after all information they could have revealed to the town was already known, followed by Vector, followed by hector. This is just off of actions and claims, not my personal opinion of their play.
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if this was another BYOR 13 with Persus, Knightwing, and Egan as three independent Evil "factions".
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 09:35:02 pm
Right I missed that Toony was supporting Vector's claim.Vector and Toony are backing each other up.
I'm not sure the ordering on Jim and Toony's claims so I'm not sure if they can be crossed off the list for sharing information that wasn't publicly known yet.
Of these I think Egan is the most likely, followed by Jim/Toony if one of them claimed after all information they could have revealed to the town was already known, followed by Vector, followed by hector. This is just off of actions and claims, not my personal opinion of their play.
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if this was another BYOR 13 with Persus, Knightwing, and Egan as three independent Evil "factions".
If Toony claimed before Vector than that leaves Egan, hector, and Jim as the three most obvious possibilities, with Jim's being contingent on other things.
IIRC Jim also claimed multi-action capabilities?
Vector and NQT are the only ones who couldn't have performed the kill without an accomplice no matter what, I think. One was roleblocked and the other tracked.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 09:36:41 pm
There's a million possible mechanical rabbitholes you can go down but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 10:02:02 pm
You're retreading ground but I guess you haven't really been around until now.
Yes I claimed my action before Vector did. I was waiting for you to claim like I said back then because on D1 I suggested I was going to investigate you or NQT last night and wanted to wait until the both of you had claimed (in NQT's case it was already revealed that Max blocked NQT).
If NQT tried to perform a mafiakill that's pretty ballsy considering I could have tracked him.
Post by: Vector on September 27, 2022, 10:04:35 pm
I have reasons to be fairly sure of Jim. I won't share them at this time. I have a hard time seeing Hector as scum due to behavior/effort but reserve the right to change my mind on reread. Compared to Hector Egan is a big flashing red neon sign on my scumdar, whereas Hector is like ... a gro-light at best.
I still need to do my reread but I'm 95% satisfied with an Egan lynch today. My second choice is Knightwing. I don't understand why people have the attitude: "keep the SK" (if we believe there's an SK). The scumteam gets one kill, the Sk usually gets one kill. The scumteam is therefore like an SK with extra hit points.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 10:08:49 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2022, 10:21:30 pm
I still need to do my reread but I'm 95% satisfied with an Egan lynch today. My second choice is Knightwing. I don't understand why people have the attitude: "keep the SK" (if we believe there's an SK). The scumteam gets one kill, the Sk usually gets one kill. The scumteam is therefore like an SK with extra hit points.Do you think Knightwing killed Persus? I don't. (even if he did I approve of an SK that can't hit town)
SK!Knightwing is fucked because he announced himself. I assume normally Max would get a Devil Deal by some unknown Summoner, get turned into a slave or whatever, and then not know who the hell did that. But because KW was nice enough to advertise his devil deals it means Max can just go "hey KW is a bad guy" tomorrow and then we lynch KW. If KW flips Evil then hooray, if KW flips Good then Max is a lying bastard and we get a free Evil kill. If Evil kills Max to keep him silent then KW gets a raw deal and everyone not named Max gets to be alive for D3. Sounds like a win-win to me.
Post by: Vector on September 27, 2022, 10:26:44 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2022, 11:08:02 pm
Don't lynch:
ToonyMan - One of the most active players and doing the most work into solving the game. Also a claimed vigilante. The longer ToonyMan is in the game the greater chance the town has to win, most likely.
Vector - Vector doesn't put Persus13 as one of two kill candidates if they're on a team with Persus13. I'd normally be annoyed about their activity but this level is pretty typical for town Vector's recent showings.
Lenglon - Claimed third party. One of the most active players and engaged in the game. I wish they would stop arguing with hector13 holy crap I am sick of reading about that.
Not great interest in lynching:
Knightwing64 - This is Proc Gen 4 Mafia Knightwing64. I'd find it hard to say that Knightwing64 is being duplicitous about all the information he's claimed. Could be the Evil Devil Summoning Witch. I could believe this is a variation on the Devil from older Supernaturals including win condition since having to survive until Day 4 and have everybody accept devil deals is an absurdly difficult win condition to achieve. From what Knightwing64 claims it sounds almost like a uniquely flavored vigilante but I suppose SK also works with 'Devil but actually capable' role he seems to have.
Maximum Spin - Blocked NQT and therefore not likely to be Persus13's killer. Has complained about Knightwing64 the Evil Devil Summoning Witch all game long before deciding getting one of Knightwing64's devil deals is actually perfectly fine. I have a lot of confusion about this slot although my feeling is still that he isn't scum.
notquitethere - At start of Day 2 notquitethere along with hector13 were my gut feel partners for Persus13. Having a decent showing lately in Day 2 so I feel a bit better about him.
hector13 - Has spent a great deal of time arguing with Lenglon over stupid shit I don't care about. One of my gut feel scum partner reads for Persus13 at the start of Day 2. Recipient of Persus13's absolutely do nothing tunnel on Day 1 with a case I don't think was particularly good; my first thought after seeing Persus13's flip was that it was Persus13 giving himself cover by voting his scumbuddy. Roleclaim feels fishy to me since my role and it seems like other roles as well aren't lifted straight from the possible town role list, but hector13 is getting information about roles straight from the possible town role list. Despite my misgivings about his role he responded with numbers when challenged. He'll either be proven correct with his claims or pretty quickly be proven full of crap.
4maskwolf - Completely unreadable. Hasn't really been around much. Played a bit just now. I don't hate what I see when he plays but then I never do.
EuchreJack - Is trying to get me lynched for some reason. Case appears to be that of TricMagic voters I'm likeliest to be scum; not really clear on the details beyond that. Is at least trying to push the case but I doubt it goes anywhere. Is defending Egan_BW with a bad meta read. I forget who pointed it out (I think it was ToonyMan) but the timing of when EuchreJack starts defending Egan_BW corresponds very closely to when Egan_BW started having a serious wagon formed on them. If it weren't for interactions around Egan_BW and what ToonyMan pointed out I'd probably read EuchreJack more strongly as town.
Some interest in lynching:
Egan_BW - Wants to revive TricMagic for some stupid reason. A likelier Persus13 killer than others. Has kind of disappeared during Day 2. Appeared to tease that he had some involvement in Persus13's death before denying it altogether in a very strange sequence. Lynching Egan_BW stops him from reviving TricMagic which I don't really want to see happen. That's a benefit of lynching him but would be a bad reason on its own.
I'm probably a few players short of all the Evil actually in the game so at some point I need to promote people into the some interest in lynching category. I probably pick hector13, notquitethere, or EuchreJack before I pick Knightwing64, Maximum Spin or 4maskwolf but a lot of that depends on what information becomes available as the game develops.
Anyways what I'm really doing for the most part is just sheeping ToonyMan, which will probably lead me to success more reliably than if I bothered with reads of my own. Egan_BW.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 11:37:42 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2022, 11:42:36 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2022, 11:44:06 pm
Could you develop distinct town and scum playstyles with easy to pick up cues unique to either playstyle?Anything for you Jimmy <3
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 28, 2022, 04:34:59 am
Maximum Spin - Blocked NQT and therefore not likely to be Persus13's killer. Has complained about Knightwing64 the Evil Devil Summoning Witch all game long before deciding getting one of Knightwing64's devil deals is actually perfectly fine. I have a lot of confusion about this slot although my feeling is still that he isn't scum.This confusion is totally fair but I honestly did just... decide it was actually perfectly fine.
I woke up this morning, saw Knightwing posting, and thought, you know what, this is actually a totally viable strategy. I would have benefited from voting him out, but I didn't NEED to.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 28, 2022, 08:51:18 am
Post by: hector13 on September 28, 2022, 09:58:08 am
We’re getting toward day end, I’m going to continue not voting in case others want to drop reads lists (EJ, for example…) but still maintain intent to vote Egan, with EJ as a second choice.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2022, 10:38:16 am
Anybody have anything they wanted to look into?
I'll be away after work, but should be home before day end.
Post by: Mamobo on September 28, 2022, 11:43:06 am
------------------------
-> Egan_BW --4-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411395#msg8411395), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412292#msg8412292), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411716#msg8411716),
notquitethere --3-- Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411160#msg8411160), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411861#msg8411861), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411974#msg8411974),
Jim Groovester --1-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411768#msg8411768),
4maskwolf --0--
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --3-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411683#msg8411683), hector13, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411952#msg8411952),
6 to Hammer. Day ends on September 28, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (8 hours and 16 minutes remaining.)
Post by: EuchreJack on September 28, 2022, 12:21:51 pm
Only reason I don't suspect Toony is because I believe his Vigilante claim.
Counterpoint: Maybe we WANT Egan to complete the resurrection, as it might otherwise be a fake claim?
Based upon the information available from the Devil Deal, it appears the setup is NOT Bastard, and thus Egan should know at least whether or not the resurrected party is guaranteed to keep alignment. Why has nobody asked this?!
@Egan_BW: Answer this, or I'll Lynch you myself. What do you know about your Resurrection? Were you told anything about the alignment of the Resurrected party? Do they return changed in any way? Can you do it more than once? Could you be doing something else of value?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 28, 2022, 12:23:27 pm
My Lynchs are NQT, Jim, or Egan if no response.
Post by: hector13 on September 28, 2022, 12:25:17 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 28, 2022, 12:34:00 pm
I don't even care if someone hammers right now.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 28, 2022, 12:41:36 pm
I'm getting pissed off that trying to prevent mislynchs is a scumtell. As Town, avoiding Townie lynches is my job.Supernatural games have the results of their resurrections preset, but the player is not informed what the outcome will be. There is no guarantee that the resurrection will go off without a hitch, no.
Only reason I don't suspect Toony is because I believe his Vigilante claim.
Counterpoint: Maybe we WANT Egan to complete the resurrection, as it might otherwise be a fake claim?
Based upon the information available from the Devil Deal, it appears the setup is NOT Bastard, and thus Egan should know at least whether or not the resurrected party is guaranteed to keep alignment. Why has nobody asked this?!
@Egan_BW: Answer this, or I'll Lynch you myself. What do you know about your Resurrection? Were you told anything about the alignment of the Resurrected party? Do they return changed in any way? Can you do it more than once? Could you be doing something else of value?
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 28, 2022, 12:52:36 pm
Counterpoint: Maybe we WANT Egan to complete the resurrection, as it might otherwise be a fake claim?
I mean, sure, letting Egan_BW complete the resurrection would prove that it's not a fakeclaim, but I already believe Egan_BW about the rez and I don't think anybody was suggesting that it was a fakeclaim anyway, until you did just now.
Shouldn't you be trying to convince people that Egan_BW is a bad lynch because they're town and not because it's worthwhile to give them an opportunity to prove their role (which wouldn't say anything about their alignment anyway)?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 28, 2022, 12:54:45 pm
It’s pretty much just a weird tinfoil right now but weirdly it feels like it makes sense with the way the game is setup?
Idk.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2022, 01:00:38 pm
Unvote
Post by: EuchreJack on September 28, 2022, 05:53:27 pm
I'm confident enough at this point to vote Egan_BW.
My apologies for not being around more for Day 2. Work mostly.
I would like to have made a proper case on Jim. Mostly, he seems to be trying to control the outcome more than his Town self.
NQT is suspicious, but someone offered to Jailkeep him, so that slot is resolved for now.
I would have liked to make my acceptance of the Devil's Deal more democratic, but not enough time. I'm taking it.
I'm mostly convinced Hector is Town. The crap he's giving me reminds me of our AmeriPol argument, where he presumably was expressing his honest opinions. I'd be more convinced if he spent more effort on other players, but I haven't been following 100%. I think he's made some other good points as well.
Internet issues on my end.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 28, 2022, 05:58:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2022, 06:46:56 pm
@Jack:
Where does this confidence come from?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 28, 2022, 06:53:20 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 28, 2022, 06:56:42 pm
Egan's last post.No, fuck you.Come to think of it, maybe my blunderingly claiming my PDE day action could have been useful here, since scum know that my revive is probably legit and the main way they can get rid of it would be by pushing for my Elim today. Unless they have a day-block in which case I guess I just screwed up.Look for scum instead of thinking of excuses to save your ass.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 28, 2022, 07:02:01 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 28, 2022, 07:03:57 pm
Post by: Vector on September 28, 2022, 07:04:26 pm
I apologize for not rereading as promised. I feel very good about Egan and the latest Department Q came out yesterday and I swallowed that instead.
Post by: Lenglon on September 28, 2022, 07:06:02 pm
Unvote
You're right, Egan's reaction is exactly wrong. And the thing that makes me mad about this is that I still think NQT is on the opposite team from Egan because NQT's claimed role is Egan's counter.
I'm not voting Egan here because that would be hammer. the unvote is practically the same thing in this situation, but it doesn't end the day on the spot.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 28, 2022, 07:13:06 pm
Spoiler: Completely Non Game Related (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 28, 2022, 07:19:21 pm
Spoiler: Completely Non Game Related (click to show/hide)
Are you the healer or the tank?
Post by: Lenglon on September 28, 2022, 07:22:29 pm
Spoiler: Completely Non Game Related (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Same topic (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on September 28, 2022, 07:33:07 pm
Spoiler: Completely Non Game Related (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Same topic (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Follow-up (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2022, 07:46:47 pm
I have soccer practice so I won't be back before EoD but I don't have that much more to say tbh, all I have to say is I realized that the lack of a nightkill last night could have been the wolf team using a one-shot convert which I somehow spaced on despite it being used on me in the last Supernatural.I didn't really see a reason to mention that since I was the N1 convert.
...
*cough*
I think the reason why there's been a lack of discussion of this possibility is because we did have a kill last night.
In Supernatural 10 there was no kill on N1 so discussion immediately went to conversions, Dark Magus Webadict had converted the third-party killer 4mask and was able to convince a lot of players that I was a possible N1 convert since I was remarkably townie on D1. I think that's something I have over 4mask as a player is that players usually find me really townie regardless if I'm town or mafia while a player like 4mask is unreadable and gives players the willies.
I was theorizing maybe Persus killed themselves to convert another player (a powerful tradeoff), but this logic gets very hairy unless we assume Vector is in on it. Because Vector was the one that had Hector and Persus be the only kill targets. I don't really like this theory.
Toony thoughts while driving home:
I'm pretty mad Egan has decided not to play because they could be town and now it's completely up to people who aren't Egan to determine that. I'm annoyed that everyone is listening to me even though I haven't been right. I'm hoping at least some of the effort I put into catching a Persus buddy bears fruit. I think Jack could still be town if Egan is town. I find it annoying how easily 4mask slipped the lynch on D1 while Tric got the noose, especially if 4mask is scum. I don't really know who Evil!Egan would be with besides Jack, so if Egan is Evil I think Jack is fucked.
Post by: Mamobo on September 28, 2022, 07:51:45 pm
------------------------
-> Egan_BW --5-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412292#msg8412292), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412428#msg8412428), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411716#msg8411716), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412507#msg8412507),
notquitethere --1-- 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411861#msg8411861),
4maskwolf --0--
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Jim Groovester --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --5-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411683#msg8411683), hector13, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411952#msg8411952), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412530#msg8412530), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412439#msg8412439),
6 to Hammer. Day ends on September 28, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 8 minutes remaining.)
Post by: Lenglon on September 28, 2022, 07:51:58 pm
I don't think it changes today's lynch though.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2022, 07:57:09 pm
Persus had Hector as one of their strong town reads alongside me and Jim, but we saw later that Persus dropped Hector a lot and by the end of D1 was their top pick for scum. I don't think this drastic drop was unnatural from Persus, in other words I don't think Persus was doing it at some weird distancing thing with Hector. So I wouldn't move Hector at all from where I had them in my original post.
I admit, I didn't even consider the possibility of a 1-shot convert replacing the mafiakill last night. how lovely. And if there was one, Jack was by far the most obvious target to hit with it since he was getting powered up overnight and considered to be town by most. so that's a thing.I dislike Jack's attitude towards Devil Deals and how they greedily gobbled up Knightwing's offer, but don't want other (mostly town) players to get the benefits.
I don't think it changes today's lynch though.
Vote CountEgan isn't even voting to save themselves here. I think this shows they don't wish to play which annoyingly I want to read as something mafia!Egan would do as I've seen this behavior from them in the past. But at the same time I also mentioned I don't have much experience with town!Egan, if at all??
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2022, 07:59:29 pm
Oh well, let's see if Evil continues to die through no effort of my own.
Post by: webadict on September 28, 2022, 08:29:52 pm
He steps forward, giving The Elder no chance to talk. He pauses before the Burning Sun.
“The Art may die with me, but I will only die with the Art.”
Egan_BW throws himself in, falling out the other side. You notice a small ashy residue covering him, but his body slams into the ground.
As the Children clean up the area, you decide to head back to your lodges, though one of you takes a moment to look in Egan_BW’s, in case, well, anything good might be in there.
Their account of what happened next is skeptical at best, given that the art of Golemancy has been condemned for centuries, but they tell you of a lone golem Priest that may have escaped into the night, never to be seen again.
Vote Count
------------------------
-> Egan_BW --5-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412292#msg8412292), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412428#msg8412428), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411716#msg8411716), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412507#msg8412507),
notquitethere --1-- 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411861#msg8411861),
4maskwolf --0--
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Jim Groovester --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --5-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411683#msg8411683), hector13, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411952#msg8411952), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412530#msg8412530), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412439#msg8412439),
Egan_BW has been executed.
Egan_BW was a Golemancer (Good).
It is now Night. Please send in your Actions (or lack of Actions) within 24 hours.
Post by: webadict on September 29, 2022, 10:55:18 pm
Outside 4maskwolf’s lodge, you find his body facedown. As you carefully inspect the body, you reason that someone must’ve shot the poor guy while he was Dreamwalking. The area around his lodge seems different, changed from the luscious greenery of the Yard to a twisted horror. As you speculate on this, The Elder steps forward, telling you of a legend They once heard of a Nightmare Weaver who could change the world around them like 4maskwolf.
You don’t have time to fully mourn yet as you continue to Jim Groovester’s lodge. You see that he, like Persus13 the day before, has been cut open and had his organs laid out in a meticulous circle. Searching through his pockets, you find the tattered remains of a Wizard scroll in what amounts to a Witch’s robe. Combining the secretive magical arts like that, The Elder explains, would be only possible from an Eclectic Witch.
The Elder tells you that these unfortunate innocent souls will never see the Burning Sun, but they can be avenged and the culprits redeemed by traversing through the Burning Sun.
4maskwolf has been killed.
4maskwolf was a Nightmare Weaver (Good).
Jim Groovester has been killed.
Jim Groovester was an Eclectic Witch (Good).
Vote Count
------------------------
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --8-- EuchreJack, hector13, Knightwing64, Lenglon, Maximum Spin, notquitethere, ToonyMan, Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~69 hours remaining).
It is now Day.
Post by: webadict on September 29, 2022, 11:02:16 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Day 2 Vote Tracker:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: EuchreJack on September 29, 2022, 11:06:37 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 29, 2022, 11:08:43 pm
I didn't think Egan was gonna be scum, but I do think it was worth it to stop the resurrection potentially leaving us even less informed. If he would've been willing to cancel it, we could've avoided it, though. :-\
I can confirm that Knightwing did give me a Devil Deal last night. Now, uh, in reference to that, I probably lied more than I ever have in mafia before, and certainly more than I ever have in the service of town, but I have to give QT some credit, besides not doing the kill, he was also right about lying being potentially valuable. :P Whoever guessed that I might be setting a trap for the summoner was right - it doesn't do anything bad to me. My immortal soul is not imperilled in any way, and I got a nice upgrade. Knightwing is probably not any harm anymore. Sorry to mess with you like that, KW, but I had to resolve you somehow.
The rest of you had better stand up and be counted. ToonyMan, in particular, are you claiming that shot on 4mask? Because, well, you had better.
Post by: webadict on September 29, 2022, 11:14:42 pm
@Mod: Are we are MYLO or ELO?I cannot answer this question.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 29, 2022, 11:23:19 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 29, 2022, 11:27:14 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 29, 2022, 11:27:43 pm
With Lenglon a claimed 3p and Knightwing an obvious 3p even if he won't admit it, MYLO seems very possible. We should treat it as if it is.Agreed.
I'm now wondering if it's ELO.
4 Good, 1 Non-Evil, 3 Evil
2 Kills
I think we have to Lynch correctly today
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 29, 2022, 11:44:48 pm
Well Max, that was highly redundant of us then, because, as I told Toony I was going to do yesterday, I used the Jailkeep 4mask gave me upon NQT last night. So that's two different roleblocks spent on the same person. yay. Also, I can account for 4mask's action last night, which is part of why I kinda despise Toony's choice of shot.Well... I didn't see you say that. My bad. What's the priority on your jailkeep?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 29, 2022, 11:57:11 pm
I wanted to shoot NQT last night but Lenglon said they were going to jailkeep NQT so my choices were between Hector, Jack, and 4mask. I chose 4mask because he was the hardest to read for me and I didn't want him to trick us, I'm sorry dude. I didn't have the courage to shoot Jack or Hector. I was also tempted to not shoot, but in the case I was killed I wanted to at least give confirmation on a player's slot.
4mask was some crazy tentacle monster but was not Evil, so I'm 0-3 now on catching Evil.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 12:02:05 am
I was hoping mafia would kill me so that Jim could see the killer but I guess they realized that.Thanks for the info, Toony.
I wanted to shoot NQT last night but Lenglon said they were going to jailkeep NQT so my choices were between Hector, Jack, and 4mask. I chose 4mask because he was the hardest to read for me and I didn't want him to trick us, I'm sorry dude. I didn't have the courage to shoot Jack or Hector. I was also tempted to not shoot, but in the case I was killed I wanted to at least give confirmation on a player's slot.
4mask was some crazy tentacle monster but was not Evil, so I'm 0-3 now on catching Evil.
That answers one of the kills.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:05:47 am
NQT is no killer.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:07:24 am
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 12:11:48 am
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 12:16:27 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:19:26 am
I think you're town Jack, regardless of whatever crazy flipflopping I've been doing. I'm literally getting Tric Matrix6 nightmares where I'm dead and town!Jack gets themselves mislynched the following day because I'm not there to help them. It's like Jim. I always feel good about Jim and it usually doesn't let me down. In your case Jack I've never been betrayed by you so it's an even stronger reasoning.
Post by: notquitethere on September 30, 2022, 12:20:01 am
Also... Egan was a golem monster raiser, and 4mask apparently a tentacle monster and both town, Lenglon's assumption that monster = evil is even sillier than ever. Those guys just decided to stay quiet and avoid the monster hunt it seems.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:27:08 am
I can confirm that I was blocked. Persus's body is presumably still intact.Can we expect some analysis from you? I know you've been sick but I don't have a strong impression of you. I still think you've been shakey and obviously if you're on a team someone else is going to do the kill when it's known you're going to be blocked. Though this doesn't apply to N1 since you wouldn't have been aware.
Also... Egan was a golem monster raiser, and 4mask apparently a tentacle monster and both town, Lenglon's assumption that monster = evil is even sillier than ever. Those guys just decided to stay quiet and avoid the monster hunt it seems.
@Jack:
I guess there was the game where you were the outside king or whatever but I remember that being really obvious.
Post by: notquitethere on September 30, 2022, 12:29:01 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 12:35:54 am
I can confirm that I was blocked. Persus's body is presumably still intact.This seems true. Notice that I'm not voting you right now.
Also... Egan was a golem monster raiser, and 4mask apparently a tentacle monster and both town, Lenglon's assumption that monster = evil is even sillier than ever. Those guys just decided to stay quiet and avoid the monster hunt it seems.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:42:08 am
Well Max, that was highly redundant of us then, because, as I told Toony I was going to do yesterday, I used the Jailkeep 4mask gave me upon NQT last night. So that's two different roleblocks spent on the same person. yay. Also, I can account for 4mask's action last night, which is part of why I kinda despise Toony's choice of shot.I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of that when making my decision.
Post by: Vector on September 30, 2022, 12:50:36 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:55:06 am
Okay so...Max was lying the whole time and we're peachy now, right? Okay, got it. Glad that worked out. I am glad that Max threw a very convincing hissy fit that we needed to kill Knightwing right now for being an evil Summoner because he was going to do bad things and as we know Knightwing is a closed book and impossible to read and super conniving. Oh look actually Knightwing has been trying to be as helpful and supportive for town as possible in this game and I would be absolutely floored if there was even an ounce of Evil in Knightwing's pinky finger. Thank you Max. Thank you for this brilliant plan to outwit Knightwing the Summoner who publically announced themselves on D2 without being pressured. You have shown us who is the real genius.
Sidenote:
I've realized that my Persus post was probably a waste of an evening.
It's become likely that Persus was the N1 mafiakill target which means he probably wasn't aware of other Evils (and neither were the other Evils).
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 01:04:28 am
Okay so...Max was lying the whole time and we're peachy now, right? Okay, got it. Glad that worked out. I am glad that Max threw a very convincing hissy fit that we needed to kill Knightwing right now for being an evil Summoner because he was going to do bad things and as we know Knightwing is a closed book and impossible to read and super conniving. Oh look actually Knightwing has been trying to be as helpful and supportive for town as possible in this game and I would be absolutely floored if there was even an ounce of Evil in Knightwing's pinky finger. Thank you Max. Thank you for this brilliant plan to outwit Knightwing the Summoner who publically announced themselves on D2 without being pressured. You have shown us who is the real genius.Uh, no. Where'd you get all this? As I clearly just said, I only lied about the effect of a devil deal on me. Even though I really thought I was going to get lynched d1, I figured there was some chance I'd get out of it, so I set a trap for the summoner. This is of course before Knightwing claimed. The rest of what I said about Knightwing was entirely true, and in fact, my message I got from the devil deal once again confirmed his (not Good) alignment. However, I don't really care if he gets lynched now because I have his soul, so I'm pretty sure he can't win now.
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 01:07:41 am
I received 1 Dreamwalker. 1 Sexton, and 3 Witches.
I am also very unhappy with Max for doubling up an action and his weird shit around his claim in relation to KW.
Sleep beckons.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 01:08:17 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 01:12:04 am
Okay. Great. You're amazing Max.Okay so...Max was lying the whole time and we're peachy now, right? Okay, got it. Glad that worked out. I am glad that Max threw a very convincing hissy fit that we needed to kill Knightwing right now for being an evil Summoner because he was going to do bad things and as we know Knightwing is a closed book and impossible to read and super conniving. Oh look actually Knightwing has been trying to be as helpful and supportive for town as possible in this game and I would be absolutely floored if there was even an ounce of Evil in Knightwing's pinky finger. Thank you Max. Thank you for this brilliant plan to outwit Knightwing the Summoner who publically announced themselves on D2 without being pressured. You have shown us who is the real genius.Uh, no. Where'd you get all this? As I clearly just said, I only lied about the effect of a devil deal on me. Even though I really thought I was going to get lynched d1, I figured there was some chance I'd get out of it, so I set a trap for the summoner. This is of course before Knightwing claimed. The rest of what I said about Knightwing was entirely true, and in fact, my message I got from the devil deal once again confirmed his (not Good) alignment. However, I don't really care if he gets lynched now because I have his soul, so I'm pretty sure he can't win now.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 01:29:01 am
Lenglon, Knightwing, Max are very good.
Vector and Jack are probably good.
Hector and NQT are prime suspects.
I would expect 4 Evil in a 13 player game, but with Lenglon being Neutral and the Knightwing/Max thing being probably Neutral maybe that leaves 3 Evil. Either way I think if we try to find suspicious players and try to find who killed Persus and Jim we'll be in business.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 01:53:38 am
N1 actions:
notquitethere -- attempted to destroy Tric's body, Roleblocked by Max.
Knightwing64 -- Offered Jack a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Transformed Lenglon into someone that can Jailkeep
Egan_BW -- No Action, currently reviving Tric At Day's End
EuchreJack -- Stole roleblock + prevent mafiakill from Max, got another Monster ability (Bind Souls, redirects two targets to each other).
hector13 -- received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage (1 each).
Jim Groovester -- Lookout (or Watch) on Hector, nobody visited Hector.
Lenglon -- Bug Max (action succeeded), gift monster action of NQT's to Jack
ToonyMan -- Tracked Vector, claims Vector no-visited
Vector -- no-actioned, limited kills to Perseus and Hector as D1 action, seen as no-visiting by Toony.
Perseus -- died, unknown action
N2 actions
notquitethere -- attempted to destroy Tric's body, Roleblocked by Max and Lenglon.
Knightwing64 -- Offered Max a Devil Deal
Maximum Spin -- Roleblocked NQT
4maskwolf -- Died and Transformed Lenglon again.
EuchreJack -- Watched Vector
hector13 -- received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles received were 1 Dreamwalker. 1 Sexton, and 3 Witches.
Jim Groovester -- Died, unknown action
Lenglon -- Roleblocked NQT, was transformed by 4mask again.
ToonyMan -- Shot 4mask.
Vector -- unknown action.
Perseus -- died, unknown action
Rolenames:
4maskwolf -- Nightmare Weaver
Egan_BW -- Priest
EuchreJack -- Unclaimed / missed claim
hector13 -- Unclaimed / missed claim
Jim Groovester -- Witch
Knightwing64 -- Witch
Lenglon -- Pixie (has changed each night due to 4mask visits)
Maximum Spin -- Unclaimed / missed claim
notquitethere -- Sexton
Persus13 -- Mystic
ToonyMan -- Unclaimed / missed claim / some kind of vig
TricMagic -- Guard
Vector -- Unclaimed / missed claim
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 01:56:10 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 02:06:24 am
Lenglon, don't claim whatever you got from 4mask last night as it's better if scum doesn't know.
I'm a monster hunter btw.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 02:10:58 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 02:12:41 am
I don't doubt Hector is getting this information each night, however I do doubt it's the only thing he's doing.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 02:16:42 am
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 02:17:40 am
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 02:28:14 am
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 02:43:10 am
I actually did NOT watch Vector last night. I instead Protected Vector with another ability I got from Knightwing. I was trying to ascertain if I had stopped a Night Kill.
My apologies for this minor sideshow.
I suspect there is only one mafia kill remaining, or we're all being too naive in believing everyone else's claims.
I'm rejecting the possibility of Mafia Cult, as I think we've already lost if that were active. Plus, you know, people dying and all.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 02:45:13 am
I don't doubt Hector is getting this information each night, however I do doubt it's the only thing he's doing.
Seems kind of weak in comparison to what the rest of us are doing.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 30, 2022, 08:16:45 am
MAX
YOU PIECE OF SHIT
I have no ability’s now. I’m literally just a default.
You had the audacity to say you got a “upgrade” and I was “taken care of”?
Ah.
Ah.
I see.
I guess being a asshole and fucking over people is par for the course in mafia. I’ll remember that, for next time, and time after taht, and then time after that.
Maximum Spin
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 08:59:02 am
…And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil
MAX
YOU PIECE OF SHIT
I have no ability’s now. I’m literally just a default.
You had the audacity to say you got a “upgrade” and I was “taken care of”?
Ah.
Ah.
I see.
I guess being a asshole and fucking over people is par for the course in mafia. I’ll remember that, for next time, and time after taht, and then time after that.
Maximum Spin
By telling truth. Tell truth and shame the devil.
If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither,
And I’ll be sworn I have power to shame him hence.
O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil!
I knew you'd be mad, and I do get it, but we're trying to lynch Evil here, not exchange petty grievances. We do both want to lynch Evil, right? I said that if you used a Devil Deal on me, I'd be able to vouch for you, and it's true. Now, given that your action is accounted for and I know you don't pose a threat to town, let's find out who does, okay?
Who do you most think is actually mafia?
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 30, 2022, 09:33:04 am
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 09:49:25 am
Vector: I see zero reason for you to claim your action last night unless you want to.
Hector: I think you performed the Night 1 kill by process of elimination. here's the lineup:
NQT: roleblocked
Knightwing: action accounted for (devil deal)
Max: performed roleblock and confirmed by Jack
4mask: flipped town
Egan: flipped town
Jack: stole from Max and accurately described stolen ability I believe, Max: please confirm that Jack did actually describe to you part of what he stole from you accurately and without being told.
Hector: generic setup information gained.
Jim: flipped town
Lenglon: myself.
Toony: kill method shown today to have highly different flavor.
Vector: limited the kill targets, I am willing to assume they are Good at this time as a result of that action.
Perseus: another kill in same style happened after he was already dead.
and so, Hector: who do you think performed the Night 1 kill? And if it was you, would you like to claim?
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 09:55:33 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 10:11:16 am
Jack: stole from Max and accurately described stolen ability I believe, Max: please confirm that Jack did actually describe to you part of what he stole from you accurately and without being told.I believe this to be the case.
It's hard for me to believe that hector is an SK unless you also expect me to believe NQT is mafia whose kill was blocked twice, since my/also now Jack's ability specifically makes reference to a mafiakill. Are you suggesting that you think this is a red herring?
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 10:23:54 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 10:27:33 am
Perseus a defenseless SK and Hector mafia is also possible.That's what I was thinking based on the flavor - it seems like we are all at least a little monstrous (you can probably guess I have some history with devils), so the description of Archons when Persus died gave me an SK or something like it feeling.
Post by: notquitethere on September 30, 2022, 10:53:23 am
batshit playstyle on D1/D2 make some semblance of sense.
He had a post restriction that mirror's Lenglon's. He has to lie a certain amount to keep his power buff.
Max, this true?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 11:12:47 am
To make it clear what I'm asking: It is possible Hector is an SK that hit Evil night 1.Nah. SK kill method would be different. This would imply mafia didn't kill twice in a row which isn't likely.
I believe Persus' was a separate Evil from this.
I'm not monstrous at all but I'm probably an exception.Perseus a defenseless SK and Hector mafia is also possible.That's what I was thinking based on the flavor - it seems like we are all at least a little monstrous (you can probably guess I have some history with devils), so the description of Archons when Persus died gave me an SK or something like it feeling.
Hot damn I just realised something about Max. Something that would make hisWhy does this make Max suspicious?
batshit playstyle on D1/D2 make some semblance of sense.
He had a post restriction that mirror's Lenglon's. He has to lie a certain amount to keep his power buff.
Max, this true?
Well, that Gambit didn't work....the fuck? Why did you protect Vector? Scared I was going to shoot a random top read of mine?
I actually did NOT watch Vector last night. I instead Protected Vector with another ability I got from Knightwing. I was trying to ascertain if I had stopped a Night Kill.
My apologies for this minor sideshow.
I suspect there is only one mafia kill remaining, or we're all being too naive in believing everyone else's claims.
I'm rejecting the possibility of Mafia Cult, as I think we've already lost if that were active. Plus, you know, people dying and all.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 11:13:32 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 11:42:48 am
I don't think Web would give Max the player a post restriction, and even mine was given in an abnormal way that would prevent it from being stolen/copied. Through normal means. I the player have expressed that I am comfortable with post restrictions in the past, Max has done the opposite I believe.While that's true - I'm incredibly uncomfortable with them! - I don't really think as poorly of "lie to gain power" as notQT suggests. "must ONLY lie to keep power" would make me just as mad as your own claimed restriction, (although not as mad as some even more constraining post restrictions would,) but I wouldn't really mind having to come up with the occasional lie to maintain full power.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:05:25 pm
Vector: I see zero reason for you to claim your action last night unless you want to.Vector maybe implied (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681) they were going to protect me last night, which would make them a Wizard and hopefully not monstrous. That would leave Max as the third Witch.
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 12:07:34 pm
Hot damn I just realised something about Max. Something that would make his
batshit playstyle on D1/D2 make some semblance of sense.
He had a post restriction that mirror's Lenglon's. He has to lie a certain amount to keep his power buff.
Max, this true?
At this point he’s lying because he’s scum.
@Lenglon: it’s pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that the team is Jack and Max at this point. Jack’s N1 action was only corroborated by Max, arguably given a bit more strength by having “stole” a mafiakill blocking ability from Max that he would’ve known about from being in a team.
I’m beginning to regret not pushing harder on Jack D2 because he was power-wolfing it up on D1 making it look like he was doing something (covered already in my post in D2) while Max was doing his own weird “not serious vote is actually serious trollolol” thing.
They both disappeared to some extent on D2, presumably because neither of them were under any great pressure, but we had more or less decided in the elimination 24 hours before the day ended.
Why is this important, I hear you say? Well, they both claimed to have a block specific to the mafiakill - which doesn’t make much sense to me, a block is a block, it’ll stop the mafiakill as well as anything else - but despite the ample time they had to coordinate the three blocks that town knew about, there were 4 suspects for who performed the kill N1, we were eliminating one of them, that leaves the three other suspects that can be easily covered. Lenglon had claimed blocking NQT because he was blocked N1 and we weren’t sure if this was the mafiakill, that means Max and Jack should have been blocking Vector and myself. Except they can’t do that because then they can’t kill in the night and divert suspicion away from themselves, so Max claimed to have missed Lenglon saying they would block NQT, which means Jack probably performed the kill N1, and either of them could have performed the kill N2, in addition to me.
I don’t really understand why Jack protects Vector N2 when Toony is the superior target due to his claimed, now confirmed, vig.
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 12:09:56 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 12:13:25 pm
Why is this important, I hear you say? Well, they both claimed to have a block specific to the mafiakill - which doesn’t make much sense to me, a block is a block, it’ll stop the mafiakill as well as anything elseDon't be stupid. The block works as a normal block most of the time, but under the right circumstances, automatically blocks the mafiakill and announces its target publically in the thread.
Is this why my attempt to imply, in my instructions to Jack, that those circumstances would have been in operation last night didn't deter you in any way? The mafia didn't actually understand what it would do? That does, at least, somewhat quiet my suspicion that EuchreJack might really be Evil, since in that case Evil would know exactly how the block worked. Although you could still be faking not knowing, I guess.
I agree with the principle that Jack's action makes no sense at all. Buuuuut he does that sometimes, too.
(I absolutely did not disappear D2, I went to war with Knightwing that whole day!)
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:19:53 pm
First, some assumptions:
1. Evil!Persus and Good!Jim were killed in the same way, this means the same player or group of players (likely group of players) killed them.
2. I strongly don't believe Lenglon, Knightwing, or Max are Evil. This is because they all behave in a way that feels extremely...alone.
That leaves Jack, Vector, NQT, Hector.
NQT was blocked by Max on N1 and double-blocked by Max/Lenglon on N2, he hasn't been able to do anything. I find him incredibly suspicious and think he's Evil with whoever killed Persus and Jim, but I really really want to figure out the Persus/Jim killer.
That leaves Jack, Vector, and Hector.
Vector didn't kill Persus on N1, I can confirm this.
That leaves Jack and Hector.
Jack maaaaybe could have killed Persus while stealing Max's roleblock, but I don't know. Hector killing Persus while getting simple Sage results sounds more believable to me.
I think there has to be one (and only one) mafia inside Jack/Hector.
PPE:
@Lenglon: it’s pretty obvious (to me, anyway) that the team is Jack and Max at this point. Jack’s N1 action was only corroborated by Max, arguably given a bit more strength by having “stole” a mafiakill blocking ability from Max that he would’ve known about from being in a team.I'll take this into serious consideration. I'm going to look into Jack and Max's interactions on D1.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 12:21:29 pm
I am not a witch.So then...Vector is last Witch?
You're a Wizard Max.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 12:39:32 pm
Assuming hector is even telling the truth.I am not a witch.So then...Vector is last Witch?
You're a Wizard Max.
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 12:40:40 pm
I am not a witch.Why is this important, I hear you say? Well, they both claimed to have a block specific to the mafiakill - which doesn’t make much sense to me, a block is a block, it’ll stop the mafiakill as well as anything elseDon't be stupid. The block works as a normal block most of the time, but under the right circumstances, automatically blocks the mafiakill and announces its target publically in the thread.
Is this why my attempt to imply, in my instructions to Jack, that those circumstances would have been in operation last night didn't deter you in any way? The mafia didn't actually understand what it would do? That does, at least, somewhat quiet my suspicion that EuchreJack might really be Evil, since in that case Evil would know exactly how the block worked. Although you could still be faking not knowing, I guess.
I agree with the principle that Jack's action makes no sense at all. Buuuuut he does that sometimes, too.
(I absolutely did not disappear D2, I went to war with Knightwing that whole day!)
In much the same way you “missed” Lenglon saying she’d block NQT?
Or did you not miss it, and block me, expecting me to say I was blocked so you could throw shade on me, not knowing my lists are unblockable?
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 12:41:48 pm
Assuming hector is even telling the truth.I am not a witch.So then...Vector is last Witch?
You're a Wizard Max.
All it takes is one person coming forward saying I’m lying.
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 12:42:28 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 12:51:31 pm
Or did you not miss it, and block me, expecting me to say I was blocked so you could throw shade on me, not knowing my lists are unblockable?What kind of theory is this? If I blocked you, and wanted to "throw shade on" you for being blocked... even though a kill clearly happened so if you were blocked you couldn't have done it... why would I have announced that I blocked NQT before you even said anything? I could have said that I blocked you, then Jack and I could've claimed that your results were wrong so you can't possibly have really got them. In fact, I could have claimed that without actually blocking you and done just as well with a free action in the mix too! Assume that I am halfway decent at strategy, please, especially as scum, even if sometimes I don't pay attention to what other people are planning to do in the night.
Which I don't, by the way. The same thing tripped me up in Demon Mafia when web and I both shot ToonyMan. It's a failing, but like I've said, I'd rather be accused justly of occasional poor judgement than wrongly of bad plans.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 12:53:26 pm
After all my frustration with Hector being noncommittal, this all-in Hector has my full approval, even if not all the arguments seem to stick.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 12:58:41 pm
...The truth is, I really think there's a chance it might be Jack.
After all my frustration with Hector being noncommittal, this all-in Hector has my full approval, even if not all the arguments seem to stick.
I wrote more, but I should really write less. The less I say, the better. Can you still jailkeep or was that a one-shot?
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 01:00:47 pm
I do want to be clearer about this though: Jack couldn't have killed d1, he still understood my ability correctly. So the theory about d1 actions still applies and still points where it pointed before....The truth is, I really think there's a chance it might be Jack.
After all my frustration with Hector being noncommittal, this all-in Hector has my full approval, even if not all the arguments seem to stick.
I wrote more, but I should really write less. The less I say, the better. Can you still jailkeep or was that a one-shot?
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 01:01:47 pm
You claimed blocking NQT while performing the kill, so when I claim being blocked you can say “who by, all the blocks have been claimed!” and can throw shade on me, being a suspect for the N1 kill.
Speculation, sure, but you corroborates Jack’s N1 claim so he wasn’t suspected of the kill D2, while you “doubling up” an action on N2 means you could’ve switched who performed the kill.
If I assume you’re smart enough to make a good plan, I can assume you’re smart enough to fake a bad one :p
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 01:03:27 pm
Webadict made the game though, so I don’t think he’d make it so unfair for town.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 01:09:13 pm
You claimed blocking NQT while performing the kill, so when I claim being blocked you can say “who by, all the blocks have been claimed!” and can throw shade on me, being a suspect for the N1 kill.So who blocks you? Jack? In which case he really does have a copy of my block and couldn't have killed d1?
Or if you mean that I block you but Jack kills, that's slightly more reasonable, but preeeetty dangerous given that Jack and I would both have weak claims and it's already known that I'd been blocking people. Why would I want to make it your word against mine like that? After all of d1 and d2?
You're forgetting that Lenglon could also have done the kill d1, by the way. Knowing that my action succeeded is not impressive, especially after I already claimed it.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 01:10:35 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 01:15:38 pm
The alternative is Vector performed the kill N1 and is teamed with Toony, and they both performed a kill N2, which is tremendously unfair for town.Yeah you could argue I was covering for Vector on N1 and then we both killed on N2, but I don't think even Evil wants to push that.
Webadict made the game though, so I don’t think he’d make it so unfair for town.
Speaking of Vector, let's talk about Vector.
If Vector is Evil I highly doubt it's with Hector, this is because Vector would have put both of them in a really awkward spot where they have to kill Persus to do any killing on N1.
What about NQT? Probably not, in fact I think Vector has the scumteam nailed on the head here:
I can see your reasoning. If that's what happened, then I wonder if someone protected Hector?Vector, good job, but why Hector and Persus?
I wanted one person who I was completely fine with dying (was originally Tric but I switched last minute to Persus) and one person who I thought would be appetizing for the scumteam in case we have a watcher (originally Toony but I decided that was too appetizing and I preferred to protect him, switched to Hector).
This rings my bells as docfishing. NQT.
Another option, of course, is that Hector is scum.
The only player I could reasonably see Evil!Vector with is Jack, but that makes interactions like this very humourous:
Welcome back, Town-Vector!
Fuck off
I'm hopeful that Vector can participate today and give feedback on NQT, Jack, and Hector.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 01:19:06 pm
You claimed blocking NQT while performing the kill, so when I claim being blocked you can say “who by, all the blocks have been claimed!” and can throw shade on me, being a suspect for the N1 kill.Hector, are you claiming to have had a roleblock attempted upon you last night?
Your theory seems to have Jack and Max kill Jim and block you respectively, N2, and to have had Max block NQT and Jack kill Perseus N1, is that correct?
Which directly reminds me, Lenglon, what was the priority on your jailkeep? You never did answer that I saw.P3, and it wasn't a "true" jailkeep exactly. It was a roleblock + Protect vs kills. It didn't prevent others from visiting or let me talk to them at night or anything like that. The ability was called Petrify, and it was a 1-shot from the Medusa role.
Last night my role changed again in the same way as it did the night before, which is why I can account for 4mask's action. I do not intend on claiming my current role or anything about it today.
You're forgetting that Lenglon could also have done the kill d1, by the way. Knowing that my action succeeded is not impressive, especially after I already claimed it.To be fair, my N1 was complicated because I multi-actioned, but my night results on N1 were confirmed several different ways for each of the various parts. I'll be a touch amused if someone actually tries to put forward a case that I did the N1 kill.
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 01:23:43 pm
You claimed blocking NQT while performing the kill, so when I claim being blocked you can say “who by, all the blocks have been claimed!” and can throw shade on me, being a suspect for the N1 kill.So who blocks you? Jack? In which case he really does have a copy of my block and couldn't have killed d1?
Or if you mean that I block you but Jack kills, that's slightly more reasonable, but preeeetty dangerous given that Jack and I would both have weak claims and it's already known that I'd been blocking people. Why would I want to make it your word against mine like that? After all of d1 and d2?
You're forgetting that Lenglon could also have done the kill d1, by the way. Knowing that my action succeeded is not impressive, especially after I already claimed it.
Do you want to accuse Lenglon of performing the kill when she’s the one putting together all the night actions? It would be ballsy, and Vector implied she has a strong scum game, but I find it very difficult to believe that if both you and Jack are town and have a block, that neither of you use it to try to help town block the suspected N1 killers, and you block the same person you blocked N1.
You would’ve blocked me in this scenario. NQT was already being blocked by Lenglon so there’s nobody to say you didn’t or couldn’t have blocked him. I was suspected of performing the N1 kill so it’s not an unreasonable claim to make to block me, so making it your word against mine is not a bad idea considering I am now the main suspect for the N1 NK now Egan and Jim are gone, unless you wish to push the idea Lenglon is doing it?
PPE: @Lenglon: I’m not claiming I was blocked last night, I’m spitballing basically.
The ability that gives me the list is unblockable, presumably because I don’t leave my lodge and I have sigils to prevent magical interference. I don’t think I’d get told about a block as a result of that, even if I was.
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 01:34:08 pm
It would make sense to me if Jack and Max are the team, N1 Max blocked NQT, and Jack killed Persus, yes.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 01:42:54 pm
P3, and it wasn't a "true" jailkeep exactly. It was a roleblock + Protect vs kills. It didn't prevent others from visiting or let me talk to them at night or anything like that. The ability was called Petrify, and it was a 1-shot from the Medusa role.Right, that's entirely consistent with what I know and can't be ruled out, then.
Last night my role changed again in the same way as it did the night before, which is why I can account for 4mask's action. I do not intend on claiming my current role or anything about it today.
Quote
To be fair, my N1 was complicated because I multi-actioned, but my night results on N1 were confirmed several different ways for each of the various parts. I'll be a touch amused if someone actually tries to put forward a case that I did the N1 kill.t would be strange for you to admit, truthfully, to multitasking while faking an action, but acknowledge that it isn't INCONCEIVABLE. Particularly in a hypothetical EuchreJack/Lenglon team universe, where we could imagine the whole scum team has multitasking as another attempt by webadict to foil nightsolving.
Do you want to accuse Lenglon of performing the kill when she’s the one putting together all the night actions?Sure, why not?
Quote
I find it very difficult to believe that if both you and Jack are town and have a block, that neither of you use it to try to help town block the suspected N1 killers, and you block the same person you blocked N1.You accuse me of putting way more thought into my night actions than I have ever done.
You would’ve blocked me in this scenario. NQT was already being blocked by Lenglon so there’s nobody to say you didn’t or couldn’t have blocked him. I was suspected of performing the N1 kill so it’s not an unreasonable claim to make to block me, so making it your word against mine is not a bad idea considering I am now the main suspect for the N1 NK now Egan and Jim are gone, unless you wish to push the idea Lenglon is doing it?
Honestly, if you want to push Jack for not even using the block in a situation where he should obviously have used the block and I even SAID AS MUCH, then yes, I can be open to that. But you seem to want me as the mastermind here, so you're overstepping the low-hanging fruit, as it were. Which makes me wonder if you are with Jack, distancing, but I'm not wondering it too hard right now.
Going to be honest with you, way more honest than I like to be about my suspicions having been totally wrong, but... I didn't think you killed Persus. I thought Persus was mafia killed by an SK rather than the other way around, and I was seriously considering that that SK may have been Knightwing. Given that I knew Knightwing's flavor involved having an enslaved imp, which I now know firsthand was used to send Devil Deals out to the target rather than visiting personally, double-acting seemed totally plausible. Since I was going to screw him over with the Devil Deal, it wasn't in my interest to block him, so I decided to block NQT again on the theory that it might have prevented a mafiakill and might do so again. Blocking you wasn't even on my radar at the time I submitted my action. Of course since you think I'm mafia you won't buy that explanation, but it's the reason for my seemingly nonsensical action.
I don't know man. Do YOU carefully remember everything other players say they're going to do in the night over the course of the entire (multi-real-day) day, to filter through before you submit your action even when said action is sent in at [checking sent PMs] 11PM? I'd go crazy if I tried to be that precise. I just do what sounds best to me at that immediate moment and assume other people will probably do fine.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 01:50:35 pm
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 01:51:29 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 01:52:49 pm
I mean… it’s not that difficult to remember a claim one person made about a night action, even if you don’t care.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 01:58:20 pm
and it was referenced later on by Jack here:also Toony, I had intended to jailkeep NQT tonight if they were alive, so I think we need to establish right now if I should be doing that or not. I can rotate to an alternate suspicious individual easily enough so that I don't block your shot.That's true. Try to jailkeep NQT then.
I intend to shoot Tric if they come back tonight, but I'll figure out what to do otherwise.
Four and a half hours later from Toony wanting the day to continue and no responses.
I'm confident enough at this point to vote Egan_BW.
My apologies for not being around more for Day 2. Work mostly.
I would like to have made a proper case on Jim. Mostly, he seems to be trying to control the outcome more than his Town self.
NQT is suspicious, but someone offered to Jailkeep him, so that slot is resolved for now.
I would have liked to make my acceptance of the Devil's Deal more democratic, but not enough time. I'm taking it.
I'm mostly convinced Hector is Town. The crap he's giving me reminds me of our AmeriPol argument, where he presumably was expressing his honest opinions. I'd be more convinced if he spent more effort on other players, but I haven't been following 100%. I think he's made some other good points as well.
Internet issues on my end.
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 01:59:51 pm
@Max: You said earlier that you’re a smart cookie halfway decent at strategy, and now you’re trying to suggest you don’t really care that much? Which is it?I still haven't actually seen where Lenglon said this. I'm just taking your word for it really.
I mean… it’s not that difficult to remember a claim one person made about a night action, even if you don’t care.
It's not that I don't care, exactly, it's that I didn't notice and wouldn't have trusted that the plan would stay the same anyway.
Max: Before NQT answers, could you please tell me what the flavor is of your roleblock?Misleading people into going the wrong way. n1 I left him lost in the woods. n2 was honestly not at all specific but I imagine it is roughly the same thing. It just said that I changed his path for the night, then moved on to the result from Knightwing.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 02:08:27 pm
Lenglon looks at the post immediately before the one she's quoting@Max: You said earlier that you’re a smart cookie halfway decent at strategy, and now you’re trying to suggest you don’t really care that much? Which is it?I still haven't actually seen where Lenglon said this. I'm just taking your word for it really.
I mean… it’s not that difficult to remember a claim one person made about a night action, even if you don’t care.
Lenglon looks at Max and raises one eyebrow
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 30, 2022, 02:17:17 pm
Lenglon looks at the post immediately before the one she's quotingYes, sometimes people post things before I'm done writing my post.
Lenglon looks at Max and raises one eyebrow
I went back and read that part of the thread after I posted and saw your post.
Honestly, I don't remember any of those posts between Knightwing saying he wanted to become Evil, and Jim's post that I answered. I seem to have come into the thread six hours later at what would have been the time I was first waking up that day. I have now used the word "post" too many times. Look, with no memory of the event, I can't say why I don't remember it. I just certainly, at the time I sent my night action to webadict, had no preconceptions about what you were going to do.
Truthfully, I'd like to think that, if I were faking this, I'd have come up with a better alibi.
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 02:45:25 pm
Again, no outside confirmation of Hector's actions N1, when almost all other options are either outside confirmed or straight up dead (or both).
And of course there's the simple fact that Jim was pressing Hector on the subject of the lists, and Jim was the one that was nightkilled.
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 03:07:20 pm
Y’all aren’t going to forget about my claim just because Jim isn’t around, and Jim not being around also has me on the chopping block. He has a watch, sure, but there were, what, 9 other players to choose from? The most likely watch target was Toony. On top of that, the vast majority of players weren’t really doing anything D2 so there were many choices for a low risk N2 NK which would have me not on the block as a result, but that is WIFOM I suppose.
Post by: Knightwing64 on September 30, 2022, 03:44:30 pm
Knightwing64
Post by: Lenglon on September 30, 2022, 04:26:27 pm
Post by: Vector on September 30, 2022, 04:40:06 pm
Vector maybe implied (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681) they were going to protect me last night, which would make them a Wizard and hopefully not monstrous. That would leave Max as the third Witch.
I implied ... but I lied! Hahahaha. I was trying to draw the kill from Jim, who protected Toony last night.
Instead, I'm the third witch. Oh, Jim and I were in a covenchat. L8r Junior!
Y’all aren’t going to forget about my claim just because Jim isn’t around, and Jim not being around also has me on the chopping block. He has a watch, sure, but there were, what, 9 other players to choose from?
Jim watched you, assuming you would be killed and we would be able to find scum that way. I can check but I believe it was a one-shot.
I'll reread... probably tomorrow (not Tomorrow). My parents will be gone at a wedding all day so I can quietly do math and mafia.
Post by: Mamobo on September 30, 2022, 04:55:24 pm
------------------------
-> Knightwing64 --1-- Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413176#msg8413176),
EuchreJack --0--
hector13 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --7-- EuchreJack, hector13, Lenglon, Maximum Spin, notquitethere, ToonyMan, Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~51 hours remaining).
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 05:19:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 05:21:34 pm
My imp betrayed me, I thought we were pals, he even bantered in the flavor text…Chin up Knightwing! You never know what could happen!
Knightwing64
Post by: notquitethere on September 30, 2022, 05:51:12 pm
I'm feeling a lot better so this weekend I'm taking a proper read back. If you're lucky there'll be charts and graphs (https://youtu.be/BC8ohE5CQXM?t=30).
Some stray thoughts before I get into it.
- The big shadow hanging over me is the half memory of one of the previous Supernaturals where someone claimed benign 3rd party and they were believed right til the end when it turned out they were a serial killer (am I thinking of Bluarian, or one of the other games. Toony should remember.) We have basically three "neutral" or neutral adjacent players, two of whom have lied through their teeth constantly. Previous experience tells me that there's a snowball chance in hell they're all what they claim.
- The N1 kill is a puzzle a lot of players are getting caught up in. And yeah, I love a puzzle too. But I've also been burned a million times in these role mad games. Especially by Wuba. It'll turn out someone had two actions, a ghost companion that tricked trackers or could summon angels to do their bidding or some batshit thing that we're not anticipating. Let's see who cares about catching scum and who doesn't.
- For these two reasons, I'm parking my vote where my gut has been all game: Max. This guy should have been cleared D1 but you nuts decided to kill Tric for whatever insane Bay12 reasons.
- There's an interesting pattern in how the claims fit together, like who falls in with whom. More on this with my charts I guess.
- My block flavour was like I got caught out and lost track of time, it was pretty vague about whether it was supernatural/natural interference/just poor time management.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 09:22:45 pm
Assuming hector is even telling the truth.I am not a witch.So then...Vector is last Witch?
You're a Wizard Max.
All it takes is one person coming forward saying I’m lying.
Well, you've never predicted a Thief.
In fact, your predictions were after the flips. They were also after some discussion of roles.
My theory is that you only got results for from one night, and have been backfilling info to make it look like you have two nights of results.
It seems obvious to me whom you and I will be voting today, so let's get on with it.
hector13
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 09:53:59 pm
Though, to be fair the only result that I didn’t get before it flipped was the Wizard, and the third Witch. I can’t help what the signs tell me though *shrugs*
Why did you protect Vector over Toony?
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 09:55:06 pm
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 09:57:23 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 10:34:11 pm
Uh huh. I never predicted anything, actually.I thought Vector was the Town Doctor, and was going to protect Toony.
Though, to be fair the only result that I didn’t get before it flipped was the Wizard, and the third Witch. I can’t help what the signs tell me though *shrugs*
Why did you protect Vector over Toony?
Why didn’t you decide to block, actually?I had no idea who to block.
Also what made you go from pushing Egan as a mislynch for most of your D2 posts, to the person you wanted to eliminate?Egan disappeared, which is a scumtell for Egan.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 30, 2022, 10:36:25 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 10:42:19 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 10:52:47 pm
I'm getting pissed off that trying to prevent mislynchs is a scumtell. As Town, avoiding Townie lynches is my job.
Only reason I don't suspect Toony is because I believe his Vigilante claim.
Counterpoint: Maybe we WANT Egan to complete the resurrection, as it might otherwise be a fake claim?
Based upon the information available from the Devil Deal, it appears the setup is NOT Bastard, and thus Egan should know at least whether or not the resurrected party is guaranteed to keep alignment. Why has nobody asked this?!
@Egan_BW: Answer this, or I'll Lynch you myself. What do you know about your Resurrection? Were you told anything about the alignment of the Resurrected party? Do they return changed in any way? Can you do it more than once? Could you be doing something else of value?
Four and a half hours later from Toony wanting the day to continue and no responses.
I'm confident enough at this point to vote Egan_BW.
My apologies for not being around more for Day 2. Work mostly.
I would like to have made a proper case on Jim. Mostly, he seems to be trying to control the outcome more than his Town self.
NQT is suspicious, but someone offered to Jailkeep him, so that slot is resolved for now.
I would have liked to make my acceptance of the Devil's Deal more democratic, but not enough time. I'm taking it.
I'm mostly convinced Hector is Town. The crap he's giving me reminds me of our AmeriPol argument, where he presumably was expressing his honest opinions. I'd be more convinced if he spent more effort on other players, but I haven't been following 100%. I think he's made some other good points as well.
Internet issues on my end.
It's a Catch-22 on my end. I promised to vote Egan if they continued to fail to respond. What do I do in that situation?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 11:35:20 pm
I'm pretty sure Hector is actually giving us role information due to their own role.Well, you've never predicted a Thief.Assuming hector is even telling the truth.I am not a witch.So then...Vector is last Witch?
You're a Wizard Max.
All it takes is one person coming forward saying I’m lying.
In fact, your predictions were after the flips. They were also after some discussion of roles.
My theory is that you only got results for from one night, and have been backfilling info to make it look like you have two nights of results.
It seems obvious to me whom you and I will be voting today, so let's get on with it.
hector13
Max isn't saying anything, but we can assume he is a Wizard and that Hector is correct because otherwise Max you should be flipping the fuck out right now if you aren't a Wizard.
Jack, can you please give more of a reason than this?
like hell it isDude get out of here.
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 11:40:29 pm
What made you think Vector was the doctor? In this post you seem pretty convinced they’re scum:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And you seem to be saying that Egan disappearing is actually a towntell in this post, giving an example of their scum meta also:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So what changed to make you think Vector wasn’t an enemy, but a boon to town?
What changed to make you think Egan’s low effort was a scumtel,l when you initially said it was a towntell and that scum!Egan was more focused and committed to win?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 11:45:28 pm
- The big shadow hanging over me is the half memory of one of the previous Supernaturals where someone claimed benign 3rd party and they were believed right til the end when it turned out they were a serial killer (am I thinking of Bluarian, or one of the other games. Toony should remember.) We have basically three "neutral" or neutral adjacent players, two of whom have lied through their teeth constantly. Previous experience tells me that there's a snowball chance in hell they're all what they claim.We aren't voting Lenglon/Knightwing/Max.
- The N1 kill is a puzzle a lot of players are getting caught up in. And yeah, I love a puzzle too. But I've also been burned a million times in these role mad games. Especially by Wuba. It'll turn out someone had two actions, a ghost companion that tricked trackers or could summon angels to do their bidding or some batshit thing that we're not anticipating. Let's see who cares about catching scum and who doesn't.Gonna look into Vector then?
- For these two reasons, I'm parking my vote where my gut has been all game: Max. This guy should have been cleared D1 but you nuts decided to kill Tric for whatever insane Bay12 reasons.Tric looked a lot like scum to me.
By the way you're the only person left on his town reads, Egan was Good and Persus was Evil, I wonder where you fall?
For his scum reads all three of Jack, Max, and Me are alive. Town!Tric is absolutely never correct on who mafia are (look at Hat Mafia), so that already makes me confident Jack/Max is not a thing like Hector is saying.
- There's an interesting pattern in how the claims fit together, like who falls in with whom. More on this with my charts I guess.For what it's worth I think the Evil left is either Jack/Vector or NQT/Hector. With me being 80% in the NQT/Hector category.
- My block flavour was like I got caught out and lost track of time, it was pretty vague about whether it was supernatural/natural interference/just poor time management.This seems like it matches then.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 11:47:41 pm
NQT didn't do the kills.
Toony's Town Vigilante.
Vector is Masons with Town Doctor Jim.
Max isn't Mafia, as his Roleblocker on one of the nights stops the Mafia kill. Which takes a night of killing from Mafia.
Knightwing is like a Town Inventor Arsonist. Who needs to realize as an admitted Town Arsonist that getting neutered by Town is a reasonable outcome.
Lenglon seems like a legit Fairy Godmother. Neutral, so existence alone does not help Town win (or prevent town loss), but working towards Town Win-Con.
So I've run out of suspects. I'll post more from my computer.
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2022, 11:51:02 pm
You claimed blocking NQT while performing the kill, so when I claim being blocked you can say “who by, all the blocks have been claimed!” and can throw shade on me, being a suspect for the N1 kill.So who blocks you? Jack? In which case he really does have a copy of my block and couldn't have killed d1?
Or if you mean that I block you but Jack kills, that's slightly more reasonable, but preeeetty dangerous given that Jack and I would both have weak claims and it's already known that I'd been blocking people. Why would I want to make it your word against mine like that? After all of d1 and d2?
You're forgetting that Lenglon could also have done the kill d1, by the way. Knowing that my action succeeded is not impressive, especially after I already claimed it.
Do you want to accuse Lenglon of performing the kill when she’s the one putting together all the night actions? It would be ballsy, and Vector implied she has a strong scum game, but I find it very difficult to believe that if both you and Jack are town and have a block, that neither of you use it to try to help town block the suspected N1 killers, and you block the same person you blocked N1.
You would’ve blocked me in this scenario. NQT was already being blocked by Lenglon so there’s nobody to say you didn’t or couldn’t have blocked him. I was suspected of performing the N1 kill so it’s not an unreasonable claim to make to block me, so making it your word against mine is not a bad idea considering I am now the main suspect for the N1 NK now Egan and Jim are gone, unless you wish to push the idea Lenglon is doing it?
PPE: @Lenglon: I’m not claiming I was blocked last night, I’m spitballing basically.
The ability that gives me the list is unblockable, presumably because I don’t leave my lodge and I have sigils to prevent magical interference. I don’t think I’d get told about a block as a result of that, even if I was.
@Hector: Why so worried about whether or not Max blocked you?
Post by: hector13 on September 30, 2022, 11:52:25 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2022, 11:53:59 pm
Jack I don't like most of your attitude for D2 and D3. You've felt distant. :(
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 12:00:48 am
What made you think Vector was the doctor? In this post you seem pretty convinced they’re scum:Reflecting upon Vector's post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411681#msg8411681), and Vector's claimed reduction of the Night 1 kill to two people, which NOBODY COUNTERCLAIMED, lead to to conclude Vector had a town protection role.
....
So what changed to make you think Vector wasn’t an enemy, but a boon to town?
What changed to make you think Egan’s low effort was a scumtel,l when you initially said it was a towntell and that scum!Egan was more focused and committed to win?
Low effort and disappearing are two different things. In Jade Court (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.0) (which you know about, since you subbed in) and other games, scum!Egan disappeared after it looked like they couldn't win as scum. Hence my REALLY REALLY REALLY needing Egan to respond. Had Egan said "Hi Doods, me not scum", I probably would have NOT voted Egan. In fact, I made sure to let everyone know where my vote was going, JUST IN CASE Egan showed up.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 01, 2022, 12:01:50 am
Vector is Masons with Town Doctor Jim.Wait, are Witch Covens guaranteed to be the same alignment, at least at the start of game?
@MOD:
If a Witch Coven exists how are alignments handled?
In the last Supernatural we had NQT and Persus together and I believe they were both told they're guaranteed to be town at game start, so I wish to believe that is the case here. Jim put Vector as a top town read at the end of D2 so I'm hoping that holds weight not just from Jim's personal read.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 01, 2022, 12:06:13 am
I was 100% going to vote NQT if Egan stopped their res.What changed to make you think Egan’s low effort was a scumtel,l when you initially said it was a towntell and that scum!Egan was more focused and committed to win?Low effort and disappearing are two different things. In Jade Court (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.0) (which you know about, since you subbed in) and other games, scum!Egan disappeared after it looked like they couldn't win as scum. Hence my REALLY REALLY REALLY needing Egan to respond. Had Egan said "Hi Doods, me not scum", I probably would have NOT voted Egan. In fact, I made sure to let everyone know where my vote was going, JUST IN CASE Egan showed up.
If they couldn't stop the res, but continued to post in thread I may have still switched to NQT although I can't guarantee that situation.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 12:08:23 am
Do you still have a block Jack? It's not lylo so we could no lynch and have Max block NQT and you block Hector or something. This is also a nice precaution because if there's 3 Evil left we are actually in mylo and probably shouldn't be lynching anyway. I could also track someone tomorrow for even more coverage.
Jack I don't like most of your attitude for D2 and D3. You've felt distant. :(
Sorry for getting a job and working more >:(
But yeah, I still got the block. I was planning on using it tonight, hopefully with Max using his block as well. We'll probably stop the Mafia Kill, but if there is Another Kill, it'll probably get through.
I don't think I can switch to No Lynch. What if Hector votes me at the last possible second?
Although, the win condition (for town at least) is different than normal. One Good Player prevents Evil from winning.
Vector is Masons with Town Doctor Jim.Wait, are Witch Covens guaranteed to be the same alignment, at least at the start of game?
@MOD:
If a Witch Coven exists how are alignments handled?
In the last Supernatural we had NQT and Persus together and I believe they were both told they're guaranteed to be town at game start, so I wish to believe that is the case here. Jim put Vector as a top town read at the end of D2 so I'm hoping that holds weight not just from Jim's personal read.
That is a valid concern. Vector could have just been playing Jim & the rest of us all along. Neighborhoods exist.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 12:09:51 am
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2022, 12:16:45 am
Frankly, I’m not against the idea. Jim said the Evil wincon is to at least be even with town, so we know there aren’t 4 scum, so the most they have is 3. Even if there’s a kill on N3, it’ll take it to 7 players unless something very weird happens, so there should be a D4 to sort it out.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 12:19:15 am
Jack I don't like most of your attitude for D2 and D3. You've felt distant. :(
I probably should have mentioned that I was previously self-employed, so I could play Forum Mafia at work (I the boss didn't mind).
I'm now working part-time, and unable to post while at that part-time employment. You can probably see that there were moments where it seemed like I had all the time in the world, and moments when I was just gone. That should explain things.
I was also hoping to go from part-time to full time, but just found out today that won't be happening for a while. So that sucks.
Any more personal details you want? My mother's maiden name was Putin. Or was it Trump? Merkel? I forget...
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 12:26:32 am
If everyone else is voting a no lynch it won’t matter what I do, and it would more than likely result in me getting eliminated the following day or NKd by Toony if it did do something.
Frankly, I’m not against the idea. Jim said the Evil wincon is to at least be even with town, so we know there aren’t 4 scum, so the most they have is 3. Even if there’s a kill on N3, it’ll take it to 7 players unless something very weird happens, so there should be a D4 to sort it out.
@Everybody Else: I find this suspicious, because with my TOWN wincon, I could see two town winning if two scum remained.
It's not even really hard, imagine Toony as Vigilante kills one scum, while Max roleblocks the Night Kill.
Assuming scum only has their night kill, 50% chance of victory!
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 12:27:31 am
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2022, 12:32:41 am
Equally so, town can’t win with any Evil alive. It may get auto resolved if Evil can’t win with what town has, but the wincon is still to kill all Evil and have at least 1 Good alive.
Post by: Lenglon on October 01, 2022, 12:39:10 am
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 12:46:50 am
If the No Lynch doesn't gain traction, I'll probably switch back to Hector.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 12:53:50 am
Post by: ToonyMan on October 01, 2022, 01:03:28 am
As there is a possibility that both Hector & I are both town being manipulated into a town-on-town dichotomy, I'll vote No Lynch.There is no way you're both town. I can't think of how that would even be possible, we're losing if you're both town.
If the No Lynch doesn't gain traction, I'll probably switch back to Hector.
I do want to keep my word to Hector. Sometime tomorrow I'm going to look into Jack's interactions with Max (and Vector) as well as NQT and Hector's interactions with each other. I'm convinced there's at least two Evil working together in this body cutting ritual.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 01:11:00 am
That alone limits the team combinations. We have two kills, so unless mafia has two kills, it's not Toony/Vector.
So for Vector to be on a scumteam, Vector's partner had to do the NightKill.
That was NOT NQT, who also has been unable to kill on Night 1 unless partnered with Max. On Night 2, NQT was unable to kill due to being roleblocked by two players.
On Night 1, Max confirms that Jack copied from him by correctly identifying the power copied, so I could not have performed the Night 1 kill unless on a scumteam with Max. Hence, I could not be Vector's partner.
On Night 1, Max's roleblock of NQT was confirmed by NQT, hence Max could not have done the Night 1 kill unless on a scumteam with NQT. So, Max could not be on a scumteam with Vector.
On Night 1, Jack confirm that Knightwing sent me a Devil's deal. So Knightwing could not have performed the Night 1 kill unless on a scumteam with Jack. So, Knightwing could not be on a scumteam with Vector.
On Night 1, Jack & NQT confirm that Lenglon gave a copy of NQT's power to Jack. So Lenglon could not have performed the Night 1 kill.
Of course, multiactions and ninjas are possible, I guess. But for now, here are the results:
Not Toony/Vector
Not NQT/Vector
Not Jack/Vector
Not Max/Vector
Not Knightwing/Vector
Not Lenglon/Vector
...I seem to be running out of potential scum partners for Vector. Hector is the only one that could be on a scumteam with Vector.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 01:17:33 am
So for NQT to be on a scumteam, his partner had to do the Night 2 kill. On Night 1, either Max was blocking NQT, or they are a scumteam. Anyone see a way that NQT could be on a scumteam with anyone but Max?
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 01:23:33 am
Both Max & NQT confirm the block Night 1. So Knightwing didn't perform a kill.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 01:29:54 am
@Lenglon: Since you've lost your Day 1 role, did you have one of the roles from the Potential Town Roles? Which one?
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 01:34:09 am
As there is a possibility that both Hector & I are both town being manipulated into a town-on-town dichotomy, I'll vote No Lynch.There is no way you're both town. I can't think of how that would even be possible, we're losing if you're both town.
If the No Lynch doesn't gain traction, I'll probably switch back to Hector.
Upon review of the above analysis of possible teams, I tend to agree with ToonyMan. Thus, I'm going back to voting Hector13
@Hector: Lets end this. You vote me, I vote you, my fellow townies determine the outcome of the game.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 01:42:06 am
I know that Knightwing visited me Night 1. Max claims Knightwing visited Night 2, and both Max & Knightwing have discussed those results.
So Knightwing can only be on a scumteam with Max, where one of them preformed the Night 2 kill.
BUT, Max has an alibi from NQT. Thus, Knightwing runs out of partners.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 01:42:41 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 01, 2022, 03:03:05 am
Also: Lenglon's role name should probably be one of the Potential Town Roles (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.0).I don't see why, as Lenglon was admittedly not a member of town.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 01, 2022, 07:13:25 am
You either got a one shot revive or my devil deal ability
Post by: Mamobo on October 01, 2022, 07:25:42 am
------------------------
-> hector13 --1-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413356#msg8413356),
-> Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413225#msg8413225),
EuchreJack --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --6-- hector13, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413402#msg8413402), Lenglon, Maximum Spin, ToonyMan, Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~36 hours remaining).
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Post by: Lenglon on October 01, 2022, 08:36:02 am
Toony - nah
Vector - nah
Max - requires Jack be evil.
Knightwing - requires Max be evil, meaning also requires Jack be evil.
Jack - apparently requires Max be evil? Request citation of this.
NQT - perma-roleblocked, so requires a solo-evil partner.
Hector - potential solo-evil.
so I can limit my focus for today to: Hector, NQT, Jack.
Max: Could you please quote the actual post where Jack confirmed what he got from you as something that really happened and not something he could have faked based on stuff you had claimed yourself about it?
that there should solve Jack's slot for me, letting me focus on NQT, and Hector.
NQT: My logic from Day 2 where I said that you and Egan were likely on opposite teams still applies. Could you tell me more about your body destruction ability? Do you get a proper autopsy or anything?
also:
NQT: Your vote right now is on Max and not Jack. I don't see Max being Evil without Jack also being Evil. Why is your vote on Max instead of Jack?
additionally:
Vector: You claim to have been in a covenchat with Jim. Jim was annoyed with me for focusing on Hector so much, and Jim flipped Good. Was there anything in your covenchat that might be additional reason to not focus on Hector?
and for jack's question of me:
I already claimed my D1 role in fairly hefty detail yesterday. I was a Pixie. No, I was not on the list of Potential Town Roles. here's where it was claimed:
Spoiler: long (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 01, 2022, 10:03:38 am
Max: Could you please quote the actual post where Jack confirmed what he got from you as something that really happened and not something he could have faked based on stuff you had claimed yourself about it?Certainly.
that there should solve Jack's slot for me, letting me focus on NQT, and Hector.
Claim: I got offered a Devil Deal.I didn't touch Lenglon in any way. I roleblocked notquitethere. EuchreJack can hopefully confirm my action, which, incidentally, is pretty obviously towny.Well, it's not Mafia, since on a certain night, it stops the Mafia Night Kill and reveals the Mafia's target.
So we Don't Lynch Max. We don't want another Tric fiasco.
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2022, 10:07:57 am
As there is a possibility that both Hector & I are both town being manipulated into a town-on-town dichotomy, I'll vote No Lynch.There is no way you're both town. I can't think of how that would even be possible, we're losing if you're both town.
If the No Lynch doesn't gain traction, I'll probably switch back to Hector.
Upon review of the above analysis of possible teams, I tend to agree with ToonyMan. Thus, I'm going back to voting Hector13
@Hector: Lets end this. You vote me, I vote you, my fellow townies determine the outcome of the game.
Just realized the corner you backed yourself into with a no lynch eh? You can’t block me if you don’t have a block, and there won’t be a “notification” if I don’t perform the mafiakill, which I don’t have.
I appreciated the theater of you getting to this point, at least.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 01, 2022, 10:30:19 am
You see, with a copy of my block, Jack knows exactly when it does and doesn't block the mafiakill, and can act accordingly with no fear of being blocked. A hypothetical mafia Jack would not need to worry about choosing the kill with the possibility that its target might be exposed until the moment it would be, and then could easily either no-kill or even use the kill to seemingly clear someone - I think I've told the story, before, of when a friend of mine had his mafia partner try to kill him when he correctly figured he'd be protected, so that nobody would think he could possibly be mafia. So we can clearly not trust the result of the block if Jack is mafia.
But of course, some other mafioso could also potentially guess when the block will have that effect, especially if, like hector seems to have, he just didn't understand how it worked before and therefore had no fear of it. Jack gave away way more of how it works than I would have wanted. Given that he said it applies on a certain night, it is not too much to assume that it would apply within the first four nights since it is doubtful any further nights might even happen, and it clearly didn't do anything special on nights 1 or 2. Mafia would therefore reasonably suspect that the autoblock will probably happen tonight, and, if not, almost certainly tomorrow night. So we can clearly not trust the result of the block if Jack is not mafia.
Therefore, I think it's best for me simply to not use it. My other power that I haven't used yet also has a special effect in the right circumstances, so I ought to give that a try instead. Jack, of course, can use it if he likes.
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2022, 10:39:18 am
Don’t put that much thought into night actions at all do you? :p
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 10:39:59 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 01, 2022, 10:47:06 am
hector13
Post by: hector13 on October 01, 2022, 11:20:22 am
Post by: ToonyMan on October 01, 2022, 11:22:04 am
And by your reactions you are judged.And shepherds we shall be.
hector13
For Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand.
That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee.
And Teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In Nomine Patris, et Fili, et Spiritus Sancti.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 01, 2022, 11:28:49 am
I honestly have zero reasons to dislike an Egan lynch right now, so I kinda see why 4mask rotated to it upon jack's statement, but really, this behavior I'm seeing from Jim/Toony/Vector is really odd. Not scummy, but I really feel like I'm missing a communication channel here. So masons?
I agree with not lynching Max, so I am honestly tempted to follow this weird rapid wagon, but weird is weird, so I'm calling it weird.
Yeah, this looks like Mason Chat.
@Toony: Did you get stuck as Mason Chat liason again? That sucked when you had like 3 chats plus the forum going.
Post by: Lenglon on October 01, 2022, 11:51:14 am
Post by: Vector on October 01, 2022, 11:52:29 am
Vector: You claim to have been in a covenchat with Jim. Jim was annoyed with me for focusing on Hector so much, and Jim flipped Good. Was there anything in your covenchat that might be additional reason to not focus on Hector?
No, it was just that we thought Hector was probably town after D1 and that having a fight wasn't helpful.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 01, 2022, 01:14:52 pm
Orc shooting principals. If you take a lot of shots even with bad aim eventually you'll hit something. I post a lot and say what's on my mind, so there's a lot of chances for my off-the-wall guesses to hit something. I also called the setup having 3 witches back on day 1. Doesn't make me prescient.You don't take compliments well.
Post by: Lenglon on October 01, 2022, 05:57:09 pm
Orc shooting principals. If you take a lot of shots even with bad aim eventually you'll hit something. I post a lot and say what's on my mind, so there's a lot of chances for my off-the-wall guesses to hit something. I also called the setup having 3 witches back on day 1. Doesn't make me prescient.You don't take compliments well.
Spoiler: off-topic (click to show/hide)
anyway, um, um, what was I doing? oh, I was working through No-lynch vs Hector lynch. If it's a no-lynch, who do the maf kill? they kill either: Toony, Vector, Lenglon. Why? because we aren't suspects for being maf at this time, and so denies the town any meaninful information from the scumkill. probably either Toony or Vector since killing me doesn't help their wincon. So what can town do in response? we have two roleblock claims, both from the same potential scum pairing, so in theory Max/Jack could RB Hector/NQT, and of course if we arranged that then even if the scum were, say, Vector, then they'd intentionally no-kill so that the town mislynches the next day and we'll have wasted resources for nothing. great. okay. So acomplish anything from that? Don't think so. So active lynch then probs. Yeah. Okay, so who lynch and why. Hector is obvs choice, NQT possible... but NQT is known to not have killed even if scum cuz rb'd. so lynch hector? yeah, probs. Hector13
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mamobo on October 01, 2022, 06:50:44 pm
------------------------
-> hector13 --3-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413356#msg8413356), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413439#msg8413439), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413522#msg8413522),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413225#msg8413225),
EuchreJack --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- hector13, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413402#msg8413402), ToonyMan, Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~25 hours remaining).
Post by: ToonyMan on October 01, 2022, 07:04:57 pm
Aw I'm glad I made your day.Spoiler: off-topic (click to show/hide)
I think you've done a much better job than me in this game anyway. It's like some...Supernatural curse.
I looked at D1 again. I don't know if I'll do D2.
Spoiler: Jack & Max (click to show/hide)
"Spoiler: NQT & Hector (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Bonus Content (click to show/hide)
Jack & Max Summary
Jack and Max interacted about 27 times on D1.
I don't really feel like Jack is with Max. There's a few reasons, but I'll list some main points:
1. Jack actively sabotaged a way to save Max at EoD1 by tearing down the 4mask wagon and wanting NQT or Hector instead.
2. Max was willing to die and did not vote to save themselves.
3. Jack and Max openly discussed how Jack was going to copy Max's action on N1 and needed to clarify with Max that it's a copy and not steal.
Counterpoints:
1. Jack townread Max really early in-game and never let go of it, had no desire to vote Max on D1.
2. Jack seems incredibly on-the-ball with reads and has been very accurate with player alignments.
3. Has not been as active on D2 and D3, although has given a reason why.
I don't feel these are strong enough to suspect Jack is Evil.
NQT & Hector Summary
NQT and Hector interacted about 13 times on D1.
I think it's possible that NQT and Hector are Evil together. Main points:
1. NQT and Hector both harassed Lenglon together for claiming not-Evil/TP, who cares about voting not-Evil/TP?
2. Hector defends NQT towards EoD1 and shows no suspicion of them.
3. Hector and NQT were both voting Max together for EoD1 (Hector later unvotes Max but doesn't vote anybody, maybe Hector felt comfortable being in a three-way tie because Evil decides ties?)
4. NQT hasn't done any interesting chart/visuals, his main thing has been showing the current vote tallies and going "these people voting me are suspicious!"
Counterpoints:
1. Hector townreading NQT is similar to Jack townreading Max.
@Max:
I also, to be clear, think there's a good chance NQT may actually be scum. I am even starting to think that NQT could be part of a witch coven that are trying to bat for each other subtly, and since I already think that there is a member of a witch coven who is secretly evil...
This evil witch would be Knightwing, correct? There's no chance it could be Vector?I mean… that just sounds like a regular scum team but with witch flavour so… it shouldn’t need any special consideration or anything like that :pOh, I was thinking maybe only one of them is scum, so the other witches THINK they are all town and try to defend each other. It was just a wild speculation though.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 01, 2022, 07:13:57 pm
@Max:Yep, the one I was told about is "the Summoner" which is confirmed to be Knightwing. My Devil Deal reversal even specifically tells me the Summoner's identity (under the assumption, I guess, that he wouldn't just spout it in public :P ) and that proved that he was the real Summoner. I considered the possibility at some point or another that there could be another Summoner, but the triggering of my ability this morning left me with no real doubt.I also, to be clear, think there's a good chance NQT may actually be scum. I am even starting to think that NQT could be part of a witch coven that are trying to bat for each other subtly, and since I already think that there is a member of a witch coven who is secretly evil...This evil witch would be Knightwing, correct? There's no chance it could be Vector?I mean… that just sounds like a regular scum team but with witch flavour so… it shouldn’t need any special consideration or anything like that :pOh, I was thinking maybe only one of them is scum, so the other witches THINK they are all town and try to defend each other. It was just a wild speculation though.
This does not in any way rule out the possibility of other evil witches, maybe even fully Evil witches. Lenglon did speculate about a Good witch, an Evil witch, and a Neutral witch. I described the Summoner as little-e evil because I knew he was farming devils and stealing souls, but this was only meant to be descriptive. Like I said before, I don't know his alignment in complete terms and the way the role is described to me is actually a little weird and not in any way consistent with the way any other roles are described so I dunno what's up with that. But I'm satisfied at this point that Knightwing is harmless so I don't care.
Post by: Lenglon on October 01, 2022, 07:29:01 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 01, 2022, 07:50:06 pm
Just quickly before I go to bed:
NQT: Who do you think performed the N1 kill of perseus?Anyone could have done it with a double-action. But something strikes me that I don't think we've considered. Is it possible Persus killed Persus? He might have selected someone outside the Hector/Persus bubble and the kill didn't work and bounced back.
Does that sound like how your power would have worked Vector?
NQT: My logic from Day 2 where I said that you and Egan were likely on opposite teams still applies. Could you tell me more about your body destruction ability? Do you get a proper autopsy or anything?It's never gone off, but presumably I don't get an autopsy. As a Sexton I know if any graves have been disturbed though. I think you trying to work out the logic of the setting this way is unlikely to be very useful. But let me join in the mind-reading: do you think Wuba would have included three good witches in the game?
NQT: Your vote right now is on Max and not Jack. I don't see Max being Evil without Jack also being Evil. Why is your vote on Max instead of Jack?This is a really weird question. I only have one vote. If I think Max is Evil and should be voted out, I don't think Max is less worth voting if it's true that Jack is his partner. Which I'm not fully sold on yet, incidentally.
Post by: Lenglon on October 01, 2022, 07:57:49 pm
Post by: Lenglon on October 01, 2022, 08:04:02 pm
To me, this seems like the case here. Which is why I asked you that question.
Post by: notquitethere on October 01, 2022, 08:06:35 pm
I'm burned out on trying to make mechanical sense in these closed settings as I always get blindsided by some secret thing, so I'm focusing on getting rid of someone who is classically scummy.
Anyone could have done any of the kills because these games have hidden elements. It sucks, but this is the conclusion I have with some bitterness come to.
So fuck the charts and the detective work and the trying to be clever about it. When has that ever helped me? Max is bad news.
Post by: notquitethere on October 01, 2022, 08:07:13 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 01, 2022, 08:07:41 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on October 01, 2022, 08:12:43 pm
I’m so confused. I couldn’t have been a evil witch if my alignment is town?
It's ok, Max said you probably weren't Evil.
I think it's been shown that you're probably town.
We're trying to decide on whether or not to Lynch Hector. Any thoughts?
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 01, 2022, 08:29:03 pm
Hmm. I’ll post my thoughts in the morning, my phone is dying and I’m pretty tired
Post by: Mamobo on October 02, 2022, 10:23:21 am
------------------------
-> hector13 --3-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413439#msg8413439), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413522#msg8413522), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413356#msg8413356),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413225#msg8413225),
EuchreJack --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- hector13, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413402#msg8413402), ToonyMan, Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (9 hours and 36 minutes remaining.)
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 11:27:38 am
Anyone could have done any of the kills because these games have hidden elements. It sucks, but this is the conclusion I have with some bitterness come to.I really don't think Max is mafia, even a solo Evil doesn't make sense to me.
So fuck the charts and the detective work and the trying to be clever about it. When has that ever helped me? Max is bad news.
Defense of Max:
1. Does this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410423#msg8410423) look like Evil to you? This is when Max is the leading wagon and gives some information since they don't expect to be back alive.
2. Max seems to be the Wizard, Jack can confirm the superblock that Max has. Is it likely for a Wizard to be Evil?
3. Max chooses not to vote to save themselves here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410748#msg8410748). Just like Good!Egan in this game. Just like town!Me in Supernatural 10.
@Hector:
Why not go after Max instead of Jack? NQT is voting Max and there's a good chance Knightwing would want to vote Max here.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 11:40:24 am
I mean just look at the way Jack was trying to justify moving his vote from a no lynch to me; he first started by “clearing” Vector with a long, busy-work post even though he himself just said he thinks Vector is town.
The reason Jack’s changing his mind in the no lynch is because he just realized I can prove he doesn’t have a block.
PPE: nobody else is going to go for Max. You’ve seemed to have convinced yourself that he’s acting so anti-town that he’s town (maybe I’m mixing you up with Jim though) and Lenglon is only interested in me and Jack. Not sure regarding Vector but Vector’s not feeling well so I can’t really blame them for not showing up when I don’t feel well and find posting difficult.
Jack is the one I’m more sure about. My priority for voting seems to be Jack, no lynch, Max.
Also, didn’t Jim flip Wizard? And Witch? *sigh* I need to ask webadict a question…
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 12:23:23 pm
Why didn't you vote on D2?
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 12:27:10 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 01:11:31 pm
@Hector:
Why didn't you vote on D2?
I was going to vote Egan but felt other players wanted to explore the space a bit more so held off lest someone hammer unexpectedly. I mentioned that a couple of times, pretty sure.
Hector: could you walk me through the case for no-lynch?
I have a suspicion that there’s only 1 block between Jack and Max, which means they can only block one person out of me and NQT.
Jack “speculating” that my lists are a passive ability (it isn’t, but that’s not the point) seemed to be part of him moving his vote to me but I think is him realizing I can prove he doesn’t have a block, and I’m hoping NQT has something that can prove that too, possibly the redirect you copied and gave to Jack, or destroying a corpse? As I say, I’m pretty sure they can only block one of us.
It will thus prove he didn’t do what he said he did on N1, and was able to perform the NK on that night.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 01:11:39 pm
I mean just look at the way Jack was trying to justify moving his vote from a no lynch to me; he first started by “clearing” Vector with a long, busy-work post even though he himself just said he thinks Vector is town.I'm more willing to believe Jack is with Vector than Max. I didn't really look into it as much because of time.
No lynch is okay, but I'm really itching to catch Evil. If you're Evil I was probably shooting NQT. How about I let you decide who I shoot if you're Good?
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 01:22:45 pm
D4 - four Good two Evil
Lynch Jack
Max kills someone
D5 - three Good one Evil
Lynch Max, he res's
Max kills someone
D6 - two good one Evil
Lynch Max for game
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 01:25:54 pm
If you're correct Hector and Jack/Max are Evil then it's just the two Evil left, even if you die today and they're forced to block and kill me tonight, that leaves 4 players against their 2 and we can vote off Jack and Max successfully for game. Max probably has a res but it still works out.Doesn't work. You have to assume KW is of questionable alignment. If the only Good people left are me (Neutral that wins with Good) and Knightwing (questionable alignment) Evil likely wins.
D4 - four Good two Evil
Lynch Jack
Max kills someone
D5 - three Good one Evil
Lynch Max, he res's
Max kills someone
D6 - two good one Evil
Lynch Max for game
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 01:30:41 pm
KW is against Max too, he should be willing to vote Max on a D6 that involves Lenglon/KW/Max.
Although I just realized that Good doesn't win there if Lenglon and KW are both Neutral since at least one Good player needs to be alive...so nobody would win since Evil will all die and Good are all dead. Unless the Evil players don't care about Neutral players hanging around, I don't know their exact wincon. I think I'm okay with that because I don't think that's the case and it would be very fun if true.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 01:41:54 pm
- While Vector is likely to claim that their mason chat meant they knew each other were town... a scum!Vector is still a possibility. Having three town witches is a bit much.
- On that note, Max deciding that his earlier certainty of there being an Evil witch was probably nothing is a big red flag for me. You're all convinced that Max is town (somehow) but if he is then where does that leave KW?
- If it's MYLO then we no lynch, and hope that Toony doesn't decide to murder any more town? (And isn't, you know, a serial killer himself. I don't think he is but it's still a possibility.)
- I don't see the Hector argument? He has claimed a confirmable action every night so it can't be based on action economy (which, in a world where double acting is possible, is a suspect argument anyway).
- Euchre's claims today were pretty weird. He said he was trying to catch someone in a trap, but it comes across as hollow.
1. Does this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410423#msg8410423) look like Evil to you? This is when Max is the leading wagon and gives some information since they don't expect to be back alive.No, he's trying to get the wagon off of him and baiting KW into targeting him at night so that he gets powers. Come on, Max even admitted this later.
2. Max seems to be the Wizard, Jack can confirm the superblock that Max has. Is it likely for a Wizard to be Evil?Jim was the wizard according to Hector just now. And any town role can be Evil, you know that! There have even been Wizards on scum teams before!
3. Max chooses not to vote to save themselves here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410748#msg8410748). Just like Good!Egan in this game. Just like town!Me in Supernatural 10.He didn't die though did he. Players don't get in the thread or choose to ride things out all the time. And for all we know, he has a revive or some other solo Evil bullshit.
This is serious weaksauce. These can't be your real reasons.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 01:51:56 pm
It seems to me, that if Vector was scum on a Neighbor chat with Town!Jim, then shooting Jim makes little sense, unless Jim was starting to get suspicious. Since it seems like Jim was convinced Vector was Town, I think scum!Vector would have killed someone else.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 01:52:12 pm
No, he's trying to get the wagon off of him and baiting KW into targeting him at night so that he gets powers. Come on, Max even admitted this later.Don't just blatantly lie. I said no such thing. I set up KW just in case I survived, but I genuinely expected not to and all the information that would matter if I were dead (since me being converted wouldn't matter if I were dead!) was true.
- On that note, Max deciding that his earlier certainty of there being an Evil witch was probably nothing is a big red flag for me. You're all convinced that Max is town (somehow) but if he is then where does that leave KW?I very specifically did not say Evil. Perhaps my choice of words was unwise, but Knightwing clearly is an evil devil-farming soul-stealing witch. I'm pretty sure he's neutral, but I no longer care because I took away his imp.
- Euchre's claims today were pretty weird. He said he was trying to catch someone in a trap, but it comes across as hollow.This actually made me think he's town MORE. Town EuchreJack has more bad ideas.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 02:08:53 pm
- If it's MYLO then we no lynch, and hope that Toony doesn't decide to murder any more town? (And isn't, you know, a serial killer himself. I don't think he is but it's still a possibility.)It's only mylo if there's three Evil left. I don't think I'm murdering any more town at night at this point.
- Euchre's claims today were pretty weird. He said he was trying to catch someone in a trap, but it comes across as hollow.I could agree with this. I don't like how Jack claimed they targeted Vector last night. This makes me suspicious of Jack working with Vector.
@Jack:
So, I was thinking about the question of whether it is likely that Vector is scum.Yeah but who? Vector knows Jim is protecting me so who's the next best kill after me or Jim?
It seems to me, that if Vector was scum on a Neighbor chat with Town!Jim, then shooting Jim makes little sense, unless Jim was starting to get suspicious. Since it seems like Jim was convinced Vector was Town, I think scum!Vector would have killed someone else.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 02:20:33 pm
@Jack:Knightwing is either an unknown variable, or likely to sheep you.So, I was thinking about the question of whether it is likely that Vector is scum.Yeah but who? Vector knows Jim is protecting me so who's the next best kill after me or Jim?
It seems to me, that if Vector was scum on a Neighbor chat with Town!Jim, then shooting Jim makes little sense, unless Jim was starting to get suspicious. Since it seems like Jim was convinced Vector was Town, I think scum!Vector would have killed someone else.
I think keeping NQT/Max/Jack alive makes sense for scum! Vector.
I also think you're missing something from Day 2, if you are considering linking me & Vector.
The dialog between myself (Jack) and Max means that either it's true, or you need to link me with Max.
The fact NQT hasn't figured that out has me suspicious of NQT.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 02:34:09 pm
Apparently people can have more than 1 role on my lists. Probably should’ve noticed that before now, but that’s what happens when I get sick and distracted.
It does mean we at least know Max, despite Toony saying he was a Wizard all day and not disputing it, is not a Wizard.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 02:39:12 pm
There also seems to be a team of "Monsters".Did Max give up on this idea? I'd forgotten he said this.
The "Monsters" are only suggested in flavortext,
Okay, Max does claim that KW is Neutral. I'd forgotten this what with all the times he bandied around the phrase "evil witch".
Uh. Knightwing64 then.
I literally already told you guys that the Summoner is evil (although not Evil but a third-party, but definitely a bad guy).
So let's get this out of the way now.
I mean, Knightwing, I know for a fact that your alignment isn't Good. It's listed in my role.
Ppe: Max when have you not been lying in this game?? If you're not a wizard then what?
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 02:45:16 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 02:48:14 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 02:49:18 pm
I think killing Knightwing would be really stupid as Evil.@Jack:Knightwing is either an unknown variable, or likely to sheep you.So, I was thinking about the question of whether it is likely that Vector is scum.Yeah but who? Vector knows Jim is protecting me so who's the next best kill after me or Jim?
It seems to me, that if Vector was scum on a Neighbor chat with Town!Jim, then shooting Jim makes little sense, unless Jim was starting to get suspicious. Since it seems like Jim was convinced Vector was Town, I think scum!Vector would have killed someone else.
I also think you're missing something from Day 2, if you are considering linking me & Vector.No I don't. You could have copied Max's block on N1 while killing Persus. I'm not saying that's impossible.
The dialog between myself (Jack) and Max means that either it's true, or you need to link me with Max.
The fact NQT hasn't figured that out has me suspicious of NQT.
I'm not going to argue that Vector's D1 ability is what killed Persus, as Persus magically getting sliced open that night is stupid and I know Vector didn't go anywhere on N1 which means they couldn't have sliced open Persus either.
My Evil!Jack theory is that you protected Vector last night in the off chance I decided to shoot Vector. I don't currently believe this is true, but I'm more convinced you're with Vector than Max if Evil.
@Hector:
It does mean we at least know Max, despite Toony saying he was a Wizard all day and not disputing it, is not a Wizard.Why isn't Max a Wizard? Wizards get blocks in Supernatural.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 02:52:28 pm
You don’t have time to fully mourn yet as you continue to Jim Groovester’s lodge. You see that he, like Persus13 the day before, has been cut open and had his organs laid out in a meticulous circle. Searching through his pockets, you find the tattered remains of a Wizard scroll in what amounts to a Witch’s robe. Combining the secretive magical arts like that, The Elder explains, would be only possible from an Eclectic Witch.Wait...what?? I didn't read this paragraph clearly when the day started. It does say Wizard and Witch here wtf
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 02:52:54 pm
PPE: @Toony: my list said there’s 1 Wizard, which is Jim, who was also 1 of the 3 Witches.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 02:55:00 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 03:02:57 pm
I've heard Toony's (flimsy) reasons for town reading Max, but Vector, Hector, Euchre— why do you think he's legit?I've got a better idea.
Jack
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 03:09:31 pm
What's going on now?
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 03:19:58 pm
I've heard Toony's (flimsy) reasons for town reading Max, but Vector, Hector, Euchre— why do you think he's legit?I've got a better idea.
Jack
Well, I guess I better answer this.
I believe Toony is a Town Vigilante because his Day 2 lead up to the reveal seemed natural. And on Day 3, he admitted to one of the kills without contradiction. He's also claimed Monster Hunter, which implies a killing ability. If Toony we're Mafia, it means Mafia has two kills and we're probably screwed.
Toony could be Third Party, but I'm just not seeing it.
Toony's trying to solve, rather than trying to kill us all off.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 03:22:11 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 03:26:22 pm
To clarify: town-sided lies are good and appropriate, but this constant low level fabrication, avoidance, misdirection. What's it all for?Honestly, you can do better than this. You keep pushing this line, but what "constant low level fabrication, avoidance, misdirection"? I set up a trap to neutralize a player I thought was anti-town, particularly one nobody wanted to vote out; and I made a joke to cover my d1 vote for you like I've often done. I might be forgetting something, but most of this fabrication is in your head because you don't LIKE the truth I'm saying. Or more accurately, really, you just want to pretend that to justify voting me out.
For the record, I noticed that immediately, but I wanted to softball it to see if hector would screw up. :PYou don’t have time to fully mourn yet as you continue to Jim Groovester’s lodge. You see that he, like Persus13 the day before, has been cut open and had his organs laid out in a meticulous circle. Searching through his pockets, you find the tattered remains of a Wizard scroll in what amounts to a Witch’s robe. Combining the secretive magical arts like that, The Elder explains, would be only possible from an Eclectic Witch.Wait...what?? I didn't read this paragraph clearly when the day started. It does say Wizard and Witch here wtf
Although now I'm curious what Max is.But, while I won't tell you so that hector still has the chance to screw up, you can probably tell just by looking at the town roles and thinking hard.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 03:26:39 pm
There's at least two.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 03:28:04 pm
Can you find the hints I dropped in D1 as well Jack??I saw 'em
There's at least two.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 03:30:06 pm
Oh, I forgot I wanted to respond to this.There also seems to be a team of "Monsters".Did Max give up on this idea? I'd forgotten he said this.
The "Monsters" are only suggested in flavortext,
It's still true. What more is there to say? I was told in my opening flavor that monsters were causing problems. I'm not even sure which monsters it means at this point, but the mafia are the obvious choice.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 03:31:15 pm
@4mask:
Very funny. I'm happy you aren't claiming TP (because I'd kill ya), but are aware of last Supernatural enough to vote me. Your playfulness is neutral in my eyes. You would do this as town or scum.
Monsters eh...there's a lot of players in this game so I'd wager 3 or 4 non-good players if I could read my cards right.
I can't think of an interesting icebreaker so I'm gonna ask Knightwing a question.
Knightwing, how was your morning today?
One
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 03:32:39 pm
Yeah I think I could make a good guess.Although now I'm curious what Max is.But, while I won't tell you so that hector still has the chance to screw up, you can probably tell just by looking at the town roles and thinking hard.
OneThe hunt begins.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 03:34:57 pm
@Persus13:Two?Given that you've played at least 7 out of the 10 regular Supernatural games, what's your favorite moment from those, and what's a mistake you hope not to repeat for this game?Oh right...
As for mistakes I don't wish to repeat, some of them are out of my control, like if there's one mafia that converts a vig tonight I'm just going to be mad because finding one scum is annoyingly hard already with so many players and then the extra kill power would push me beyond upset. I don't think Web would do that, but he'd maybe subvert it in some way. There's a lot of Monster stuff going on here.
If we had listened to Luckyowl on D1 of Supernatural 10 and lynched Web we would have been most likely victorious, but we didn't. So maybe I need to take into account even the most inexperienced player's opinion for success. I can't be too dismissive of things that are actually possible, especially when a lynch is happily going through and nobody but the person being lynched is doing anything. Contentment is probably our demise.Toony: I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are correct, and that it wasn't a concern after all, but I did not know that at the time, and thought that the Good players might only be a sub-faction of town, which would require protection. At the time of Jack's question, they were lacking the same information I was, and so I remain concerned about their questioning, but it is currently only a cause for mild suspicion, as I said to Knightwing earlier.If you can help find Good just as much as Evil that would be appreciated, Lenglon.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 03:39:28 pm
Two?You could say that counts, yeah. Not one I was thinking of though.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 03:40:55 pm
Honestly, you can do better than this. You keep pushing this line, but what "constant low level fabrication, avoidance, misdirection"? I set up a trap to neutralize a player I thought was anti-town, particularly one nobody wanted to vote out; and I made a joke to cover my d1 vote for you like I've often done. I might be forgetting something, but most of this fabrication is in your head because you don't LIKE the truth I'm saying. Or more accurately, really, you just want to pretend that to justify voting me out.
Well that's three lies only one is vaguely justifiable. Also not only did you lie unnecessarily about why you were voting me, and then you lied about why you lied. Like, complete nonsense. Then you lied by omission in making people think you thought that there was a genuine Evil alignment witch.
Further to that, what did you have to gain by making players think Hector had correctly guess your role was Wizard? A Town!Max's doesn't know if Hector is town or not, so why would he want people to think Hector was right about something he could have been wrong about?
And then there were the refusal to engage with the guess that you were lying on purpose for a post restriction.
And that's just what I can recall off the top of my head! You've just been completely unnecessarily shifty all game. Just a complete and utter bullshit merchant for no apparent reason. And everyone else just goes along like a bloody noddy dog and accepts your lame reasons.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 03:42:56 pm
@NQT:Maybe three?
I'm the good. Tric is the ugly. 4mask is the bad.
Who's gonna shoot first?
@Hector:
Nice post!
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 03:45:20 pm
then you lied about why you lied. Like, complete nonsense.No I didn't?
Quote
Then you lied by omission in making people think you thought that there was a genuine Evil alignment witch.No I didn't? I explained repeatedly.
Quote
Further to that, what did you have to gain by making players think Hector had correctly guess your role was Wizard?No I didn't? I didn't say a word about it.
Quote
A Town!Max's doesn't know if Hector is town or not, so why would he want people to think Hector was right about something he could have been wrong about?But I knew he was right about there being a wizard, because I, apparently alone, figured out the Jim thing immediately. So it didn't seem like a big deal: there definitely was at least one wizard, so it's only a problem if I see a second one. This is why I immediately ruled out being a witch: because I had already seen only two witches, so Vector not being a witch would've been a big deal.
Quote
And then there were the refusal to engage with the guess that you were lying on purpose for a post restriction.Why would I engage with that? If there was such a thing, I wouldn't tell you. But that's not "being shifty" unless you assume you deserve all information all the time. Which you don't.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 03:50:42 pm
Hm, word choice of "firing", also explains the Day 1 distrust of Tric that Toony showed.I also find it suspicious that I'm like 88% sure that Tric is Town, yet Toonyman is relentlessly scumreading Tric.I'm 88% sure Max is town.
I was willing to forgive it as a Famous town!Toony gambit, until this latest investigation by Toonyman.Oh? I wanted to know Tric's intentions for firing their role name at that point.@Jack:This statement bothers me, because it doesn't seem to match with what you said to Tric.
Tric claimed Warden on his own there. I was questioning why he did such a thing. He has not acknowledged this yet.
Literally nobody questioned me when I said I was going to investigate 4mask or NQT early on in the day. Is this because players are terrified of being called ro-ro-role fishers? Grow up.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 03:52:55 pm
You spewed this utter garbage:then you lied about why you lied. Like, complete nonsense.No I didn't?
No I didn't? I explained repeatedly.You clearly wanted people to believe there was an evil witch.
No I didn't? I didn't say a word about it.EXACTLY!
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 03:53:28 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
-> hector13 --3-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413439#msg8413439), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413522#msg8413522), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413356#msg8413356),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413225#msg8413225),
EuchreJack --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- hector13, Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413402#msg8413402), ToonyMan, Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (9 hours and 36 minutes remaining.)
I think the most recent votecount was this?
With Lenglon unvoting and Toony voting Jack, if I vote Jack that ties it, which I’m kind of reticent to do… but there’s time for the rest of the town to coalesce around something.
Jack
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 03:53:40 pm
And that's just what I can recall off the top of my head! You've just been completely unnecessarily shifty all game. Just a complete and utter bullshit merchant for no apparent reason. And everyone else just goes along like a bloody noddy dog and accepts your lame reasons.Sounds like town!Max to me.
Maybe three?Yep, that's one I was thinking of for sure.
Hm, word choice of "firing"Hehe. There's another funny word choice I made too that's similar.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 03:56:40 pm
There was! He admitted it! There just isn't an Evil witch. Or, well, there might be, I don't know. Can't you hear capitals??No I didn't? I explained repeatedly.You clearly wanted people to believe there was an evil witch.
Look, farming devils and stealing people's souls is clearly evil behavior. It doesn't mean he is on the Evil team. This isn't hard to understand and I clarified it repeatedly. It's not my fault if it went over your head. EVERYONE else seemed to get it just fine, asking me whether I specifically meant Evil, which I clearly answered truthfully.
Anyway, with notquitethere having only this weak crap to offer, I'm fine just voting him now. This also cures the tie.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 03:57:47 pm
Back by popular demand...Spoiler: Day 1 Vote Tracker (click to show/hide)
If a Max vote isn't happening today (GRRR) then EuchreJack is the next best option.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 04:00:19 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:00:42 pm
But, Hector could be partners with A Lot of players. Dude's never been confirmed by anyone.
In my defense, I wrote the above before NQT voted me
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:02:07 pm
@NQT: Why did you decide to vote me NOW instead of earlier in the day?
Post by: Mamobo on October 02, 2022, 04:02:22 pm
------------------------
-> EuchreJack --3-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413775#msg8413775), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413810#msg8413810), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413818#msg8413818),
notquitethere --2-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413817#msg8413817), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413822#msg8413822),
hector13 --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --3-- Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413402#msg8413402), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413778#msg8413778), Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (3 hours and 57 minutes remaining.)
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 04:02:47 pm
I think this pretty clearly proves that they are desperate not to have two of the mafia-kill block around because they can't roleblock both.Are you convinced it's NQT and Hector now? Earlier you said you weren't comfortable with the NQT-Hector push.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:04:30 pm
I think this pretty clearly proves that they are desperate not to have two of the mafia-kill block around because they can't roleblock both.This is an extreme reach. I would like to vote you out. Toony and friends seem to like you for very hand-wavy reasons.
@Hector: Why did you decide to vote me NOW instead of earlier in the day?
@NQT: Why did you decide to vote me NOW instead of earlier in the day?
*and breathe*
I wanted Max out most of all. As I think was clear.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 04:05:11 pm
I don't remember saying that? I think I've thought it was the two of them all Day.I think this pretty clearly proves that they are desperate not to have two of the mafia-kill block around because they can't roleblock both.Are you convinced it's NQT and Hector now? Earlier you said you weren't comfortable with the NQT-Hector push.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:06:22 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:06:39 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:07:12 pm
I’ve been pretty clear I would vote for you or a no lynch pretty much the entire day, brah.But you didn't vote until now. Why is that?
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:08:04 pm
Toony, if you vote notquitethere (or we all shift back to hector, I'm good either way) and he flips townAlready setting up your excuses for when I flip town. You know you freaking know I'm town you absolute scum bag
@NQT: If Max is scum, who are his possible partners?You or Vector. Why are you so convinced he's town? Have you even read his posts??!
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 04:08:51 pm
I meant this post, but on a reread I misread the intent so you're right:
I find this coordinated hector-and-NQT push suspicious, of course, but if you two are the scum team, despair: you can't kill me anyway. Didn't you think to wonder what powers I got from Knightwing?Also: Lenglon's role name should probably be one of the Potential Town Roles (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.0).I don't see why, as Lenglon was admittedly not a member of town.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:09:45 pm
Toony, if you vote notquitethere (or we all shift back to hector, I'm good either way) and he flips town, I recommend you shoot Jack. I expect to block him. Shooting me would be a waste of effort.I pretty much expected Toony to shoot me if Hector flipped town, even though I find it highly unlikely. That probably transfers to NQT as well, although I'm less certain about NQT.I don't remember saying that? I think I've thought it was the two of them all Day.I think this pretty clearly proves that they are desperate not to have two of the mafia-kill block around because they can't roleblock both.Are you convinced it's NQT and Hector now? Earlier you said you weren't comfortable with the NQT-Hector push.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:11:45 pm
Knightwing64, if you would like to actually catch scum today, please vote.I have considered that Max could be scum partners with Hector.Toony, if you vote notquitethere (or we all shift back to hector, I'm good either way) and he flips townAlready setting up your excuses for when I flip town. You know you freaking know I'm town you absolute scum bag@NQT: If Max is scum, who are his possible partners?You or Vector. Why are you so convinced he's town? Have you even read his posts??!
It's unlikely, but possible that the Roleblock that I got from Max had Negative Mafia Utility in it stopping Mafia if used on a particular night.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 04:11:58 pm
@Max:Oh yeah, I meant THEIRS. I assume you got that.
I meant this post, but on a reread I misread the intent so you're right:I find this coordinated hector-and-NQT push suspicious, of course, but if you two are the scum team, despair: you can't kill me anyway. Didn't you think to wonder what powers I got from Knightwing?
Anyway,
Toony, if you vote notquitethere (or we all shift back to hector, I'm good either way) and he flips town, I recommend you shoot Jack. I expect to block him. Shooting me would be a waste of effort.In retrospect, this is actually dumb. I believe EuchreJack has a copy of my block and will use it if town, which means leaving him alive actually gets us extra information even if he is scum (since it either reveals that he didn't, OR he is forced to use it to cover it up), so let's not do this.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:12:30 pm
Because nobody seemed particularly interested in voting you or a no lynch until now?I’ve been pretty clear I would vote for you or a no lynch pretty much the entire day, brah.But you didn't vote until now. Why is that?
PPE: jfc let me POST DAMNIT.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 04:12:58 pm
It's unlikely, but possible that the Roleblock that I got from Max had Negative Mafia Utility in it stopping Mafia if used on a particular night.That's fair, but come on, there's no way in hell I'd have given a copy to you in that case. I am completely confident that I could have got you to townread me without it, so it's just giving town help for no reason. :P
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 04:13:56 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 04:14:19 pm
So...I shoot you if Hector or NQT flips Good?Toony, if you vote notquitethere (or we all shift back to hector, I'm good either way) and he flips town, I recommend you shoot Jack. I expect to block him. Shooting me would be a waste of effort.In retrospect, this is actually dumb. I believe EuchreJack has a copy of my block and will use it if town, which means leaving him alive actually gets us extra information even if he is scum (since it either reveals that he didn't, OR he is forced to use it to cover it up), so let's not do this.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 04:15:11 pm
Toony: I unvoted to let you have your fun, but what's your thought process here? I still prefer a Hector lynch.Exactly what I thought would happen, happened: Hector and NQT voted Jack.
Alley oop
Hector
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:16:00 pm
It was your idea that I grab your ability that you had to use in order for me to copy it. So good point.It's unlikely, but possible that the Roleblock that I got from Max had Negative Mafia Utility in it stopping Mafia if used on a particular night.That's fair, but come on, there's no way in hell I'd have given a copy to you in that case. I am completely confident that I could have got you to townread me without it, so it's just giving town help for no reason. :P
But, weren't you pushing for a No Lynch instead of a Jack Lynch?Because nobody seemed particularly interested in voting you or a no lynch until now?I’ve been pretty clear I would vote for you or a no lynch pretty much the entire day, brah.But you didn't vote until now. Why is that?
PPE: jfc let me POST DAMNIT.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 04:16:56 pm
I blame everybody but myself for the late arrival
I’m still down for Hector, if that’s still going on?
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 04:17:23 pm
So...I shoot you if Hector or NQT flips Good?Won't do any good, but... I... guess if you want? If you have any other better actions to use, that would be preferable. Kinda don't want to be shot for no reason. It's just that, if both blocks are in play, we can confirm whether one or both were genuinely used. A Town EuchreJack has no excuse not to use it.
Oh, hector13. Cool with that for sure.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:18:25 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:19:04 pm
@Jack: I was laying out the case for a no lynch because nobody else was doing it, and it allows me to prove you don’t have a block, which allows me to show you performed the N1 kill.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:19:13 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:20:01 pm
I HAVE APPEARED
I blame everybody but myself for the late arrival
I’m still down for Hector, if that’s still going on?
What do you mean “still”? Since when?
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:20:59 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:21:52 pm
Toony, is EJ scum or not?
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:23:25 pm
@Toony: come on man, Max and Jack have been on me since day start.Ah, but I DO have a block.
@Jack: I was laying out the case for a no lynch because nobody else was doing it, and it allows me to prove you don’t have a block, which allows me to show you performed the N1 kill.
And you've yet to disclose WHY the vote for today is you or I.
For you see, the only ones that could have done the Day 1 night kill are you or I.
If you WERE town, you'd be out for my blood beginning of Day 3.
Instead, you were entertaining the No Lynch.
...this isn't really for you or I, since I know I'm town and thus you must be scum.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:24:39 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 04:25:43 pm
Well if it was just a sick head game, I still want Max gone. Toony, you might think it's smart to use your cred to lead town around, but it's just undermining trust in you. I was happy to follow your lead on this one and now it's some weird fake out?I hate hate hate hate hate hate how this game has been everyone following me to lynch Good players. I have to decide who lives and who dies for every goddamn tie breaker in this game, and I've been wrong every time! And everyone still votes with me! I hate it! I feel worthless!
Fucking
vote
who
you
want
to
vote.
PPE:
Toony is absolutely determined to throw the game. First murdering Tric, then 4mask, and now playing weird end-of-game vote nonsense.I DONT KNOW
Toony, is EJ scum or not?
MY GUT SAYS HE'S TOWN BECAUSE OF HIS D1 PLAY, BUT I HAVE BEEN LESS THAN HAPPY WITH THEIR D2 AND D3 PLAY
I LIKE THE AMOUNT OF EFFORT THEY HAVE PUT INTO THIS GAME, BUT I DISLIKE THEIR POSTS THAT COME OFF AS COLD AND CALCULATED WITHOUT THE FUN HAPPY TOWN!JACK PIZAZZ IN THEM
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:26:45 pm
If he voted for anyone else, I’d be making the case for Jack.
Like, if this proves NQT and I are scum, what would town!NQT and I do differently?
PPE: I LITERALLY SAIS IN MY FIRST D3 POST THAT YOU WERE SCUM
No lynching just makes it patently bloody obvious you don’t have a block that forces you to either no kill because you think I’m bluffing about being able to prove it, or throw the game as scum.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:28:29 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 04:29:47 pm
Toony is absolutely determined to throw the game. First murdering Tric, then 4mask, and now playing weird end-of-game vote nonsense.I MURDERED TRIC BECAUSE HIS READS WERE STATIC HE WAS VERY CAGEY WITH HIS ROLE AND HE INTERACTIONS WITH 4MASK WERE ODD. PLAYERS LIKE VECTOR AND JIM AGREED WITH ME
Toony, is EJ scum or not?
I MURDERED 4MASK AS AN INSURANCE SHOT, I WAS WORRIED AN EVIL!4MASK WOULD CONTROL THE GAME AFTER I WAS GONE AND TOWN WOULD LOSE BECAUSE OF IT. I VALUED THAT KIND OF SHOT MORE THAN KILLING JACK OR HECTOR WHO I WAS LESS CONFIDENT ABOUT
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:30:49 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:32:12 pm
Shoot me tonight if you want Toony. I just don't want another senseless mislaunch. Hector's play has been fine today. I get none of the heebie-jeebies I'm getting from Max, and none of the wariness about Vector (who has been mostly absent, which whether deliberate or not, has definitely worked in their favour for avoiding critical attention). EJ is mostly just POE for me, I'm not as firm as I'd like.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 04:33:12 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 04:34:17 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 04:35:55 pm
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 04:36:19 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:38:10 pm
PPE: come on man, someone is scum in this group. I want Jack gone, and have been clear and consistent about that the entire day.
If you don’t want to lynch anyone, I’ve already laid out why I think a no lynch still works against scum.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:43:15 pm
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 04:45:29 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:49:17 pm
Oh, it's super clear to me that the scum is either Max/Jack or Hector/NQT. The question is which pair. Max's behavior has been absurdly scummy, with NQT being only a little less scummy than Max. Hector vs Jack I think Hector has behaved scummier. The thing that has me leaning that the scum pair is Hector/NQT instead if Max/ Jack is the amount of stuff that was assertively claimed upfront vs stuff claimed at the back and when cornered. That's basically it.I don't get this. Max explicitly made his claims to bait KW into targeting him. Hector had a good rationale for waiting to claim his role knowledge, as there were traps possible. Hector claimed early to get special powers from KW and Hector claimed late to trap liars.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 04:51:00 pm
It’s okay Toony, your gut will be right this time, I promise :)
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:51:59 pm
KW, let's launch Max. Don't you want your revenge?
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:52:49 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 04:54:43 pm
Oh, it's super clear to me that the scum is either Max/Jack or Hector/NQT. The question is which pair. Max's behavior has been absurdly scummy, with NQT being only a little less scummy than Max. Hector vs Jack I think Hector has behaved scummier. The thing that has me leaning that the scum pair is Hector/NQT instead if Max/ Jack is the amount of stuff that was assertively claimed upfront vs stuff claimed at the back and when cornered. That's basically it.
I’m the third scummiest and I’m the vote? Sure.
What is this “only claimed when cornered” nonsense? Are scum incapable of revealing things assertively ahead of time and town never waits until the last possible moment to claim?
PPE: goddamnit KW.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 04:56:22 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:57:42 pm
NQT was role-blocked by Max. They both confirm this action occurred. I know Max role-blocked because I was only able to acquire Max's ability because he role-blocked.
Vector did no action, confirmed by Toony whom I believe to be Town. As I've already said, I believe Toony's Town Vigilante claim.
Toony was tracking Vector. Vector confirmed that they did no action. Apparently Vector gave up their night action to limit the Night 1 kill.
Knightwing gave me a Devil Deal. Since Knightwing gave Max a Devil Deal on Night 2, we know that both Max and myself are supporting Knightwing's claim.
So the only possible surviving players are:
Jack, who has a copy ability only confirmed by Max.
Hector, who got some role info, confirmed by nobody. In fact, apparently the roles Hector gave for Night 1 action haven't even been confirmed.
"The roles received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage (1 each)."
Mystic was the flip of Persus13 before hector13 spoke.
Hector13 claimed himself as the Sage.
We still haven't found the Wizard.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 04:58:45 pm
We still haven't found the Wizard.Jim was a witch and wizard at the same time. You... weren't paying attention to the latter posts of today huh
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 04:59:21 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 04:59:49 pm
Toony/Vector, with Jim the real vig who was killed and counterclaimed.
Remember, Toony and Vector confirmed each other's actions n1. Nobody else did.
What do you think?
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 05:00:30 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 05:00:46 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 05:00:56 pm
Surely there’s only one mafia left, right? Didn’t we already get one? Or, a random killer did.
2 mafia is standard, correct?
WAIT
Is this a cult, is there conversionnnn
Brain melting
System reboot processing…..
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 05:01:21 pm
Max: If hypothetically you were lynched, would your alignment flip and you revive?My alignment would not flip. I wish it were that easy.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 05:01:31 pm
NOWe still haven't found the Wizard.Jim was a witch and wizard at the same time. You... weren't paying attention to the latter posts of today huh
Jim was a Witch, with a wizard's scroll. I'm not sure that would show up as a Wizard.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 05:02:39 pm
Point being I thought EoD was tomorrow and I had plenty of time to fuck around. I spent much of the last two days sleeping.
Rereading now to make sure I can post something substantial before Night.
If we have an evil team that can't communicate with each other, that isn't quite solo scum and it isn't quite mafia. They would have to find who they are and try to communicate in public. Potentially win with TP.
NOWe still haven't found the Wizard.Jim was a witch and wizard at the same time. You... weren't paying attention to the latter posts of today huh
Jim was a Witch, with a wizard's scroll. I'm not sure that would show up as a Wizard.
I've seen Jim's role PM, it's a combined Witch and Wizard role. Jim was two things at the same time.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 05:03:10 pm
NotQuiteThere, hector13: I'm town. If both of you two are really town, there's only one real possibility.I forgot, Jack/Lenglon is also a possibility, but NQT confirms Lenglon's action on Jack, right? If that's the case, that rules them out.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 05:03:34 pm
I find Max scummier than you, who is scummier than Hector, who is scummier than Jack. As a pair, I see you + hector as scummier than Max+Jack, though not by a lot. Of you and Hector, based on Hector's claims and behavior I consider Town!Hector less valuable than Town!NQT. Of the other pair, I consider Town!Max more valuable than Town!Jack. So I either vote Jack or Hector here, each judged by their pairing, not as individuals.
Right.
I should have been blocked N2 by town!EJ if they had a block but I wasn’t, which would have stopped the kill if NQT and I are scum together because NQT is not allowed night actions in this game.
Instead, Jack PROTECTED Vector, because he thought Vector is the town doctor, despite Jack having the “town” protect..
PPE: 8 posts okay
PPE: and another
PPE: and another
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 05:05:43 pm
NotQuiteThere, hector13: I'm town. If both of you two are really town, there's only one real possibility.I think a simpler explanation is that you're scum. But as I said before, I think there are numerous ways Vector can be scum. She could even have done the kills through all manner of occult rolemad bullshit. Toony needn't be a partner in this scenario. I think it's less likely than you being scum with a similar double-acting, but sure, it's possible.
Toony/Vector, with Jim the real vig who was killed and counterclaimed.
Remember, Toony and Vector confirmed each other's actions n1. Nobody else did.
What do you think?
My alignment would not flip. I wish it were that easy.Convenient.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 05:06:52 pm
I should have been blocked N2 by town!EJ if they had a block but I wasn’t, which would have stopped the kill if NQT and I are scum together because NQT is not allowed night actions in this game.I agree that this makes no goddamn sense, but why would I agree with that plan? If that was the plan, I would never have told him, in public, to use the block he assumptively didn't really have; I would have just let him to his own devices and that would better justify him not using it.
I agree that Jack's decision makes no sense! If you can suggest a teammate that he could have I'd vote Jack no problem!
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 05:07:25 pm
From your understanding of the game so far, Max, Hector or Jack? Who do you want to eliminate most and why?
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 05:10:51 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 05:12:09 pm
AAAAAA
Surely there’s only one mafia left, right? Didn’t we already get one? Or, a random killer did.
2 mafia is standard, correct?
WAIT
Is this a cult, is there conversionnnn
Brain melting
System reboot processing…..
2 mafia is standard for a 7 to 9 player game. With 4 more players, Webadict probably added a third scum of some type.
So we might have to go on tomorrow.
NOWe still haven't found the Wizard.Jim was a witch and wizard at the same time. You... weren't paying attention to the latter posts of today huh
Jim was a Witch, with a wizard's scroll. I'm not sure that would show up as a Wizard.
I've seen Jim's role PM, it's a combined Witch and Wizard role. Jim was two things at the same time.
Thanks for clarifying. This means hector did obtain one result. Or guessed correctly (who does Supernatural Mafia without including a Wizard?)
So wait, your case on me is that I did things differently than you would have done?I find Max scummier than you, who is scummier than Hector, who is scummier than Jack. As a pair, I see you + hector as scummier than Max+Jack, though not by a lot. Of you and Hector, based on Hector's claims and behavior I consider Town!Hector less valuable than Town!NQT. Of the other pair, I consider Town!Max more valuable than Town!Jack. So I either vote Jack or Hector here, each judged by their pairing, not as individuals.
Right.
I should have been blocked N2 by town!EJ if they had a block but I wasn’t, which would have stopped the kill if NQT and I are scum together because NQT is not allowed night actions in this game.
Instead, Jack PROTECTED Vector, because he thought Vector is the town doctor, despite Jack having the “town” protect..
PPE: 8 posts okay
PPE: and another
PPE: and another
Vector, Jim and 4mask were still viable suspects. But I tended to believe Vector's doctor claim, thus I protected Vector.
I only got my protect ability from Knightwing's devil deal. I didn't have it originally. In fact, it is THE REASON I TOOK THE DEVIL DEAL.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 05:13:55 pm
I should have been blocked N2 by town!EJ if they had a block but I wasn’t, which would have stopped the kill if NQT and I are scum together because NQT is not allowed night actions in this game.I agree that this makes no goddamn sense, but why would I agree with that plan? If that was the plan, I would never have told him, in public, to use the block he assumptively didn't really have; I would have just let him to his own devices and that would better justify him not using it.
I agree that Jack's decision makes no sense! If you can suggest a teammate that he could have I'd vote Jack no problem!
That’s WIFOM, so anything else I say about it is also WIFOM.
Just because you don’t approve of something doesn’t mean Jack doesn’t do it, there’s any number of reasons he could have made that mistake as scum.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 05:16:43 pm
That’s WIFOM, so anything else I say about it is also WIFOM.But you're suggesting that he's scum with me. And there's no way I'd allow it. Not even to say "there's no way I'd allow that!" later. There's WIFOM, and then there's just making completely unforced errors.
Just because you don’t approve of something doesn’t mean Jack doesn’t do it, there’s any number of reasons he could have made that mistake as scum.
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 05:17:42 pm
Thanks for clarifying. This means hector did obtain one result. Or guessed correctly (who does Supernatural Mafia without including a Wizard?)This is a joke right? DO you really want me to trawl the ten or eleven Supernatural games to show that at least half did not include Wizards.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 05:18:26 pm
And Vector performing a no-information-gained action of some kind.
My role is:
Day -- make it so that no one can be killed except for two people who I select, for that Night.
A covenchat with Jim so that we're confirmed to each other and have seen each other's role PMs. We're unconvertable.
My unused power is a one-shot medium power, adding someone else to my Covenchat. The person needs to be dead and the options were:
N1: add Tric to the coven chat. Absolutely not, so I none'd.
N2: add Tric or Egan or Persus to the coven chat. Also No.
Today is D3, I might add someone to my chat if someone useful dies, but as-is I can still communicate with Jim. That's it. That's my role.
(Still reading).
Post by: notquitethere on October 02, 2022, 05:20:31 pm
We're unconvertable.HOly shit are you saying you knew conversion was solidly on the table all this time. AHHH
Post by: Mamobo on October 02, 2022, 05:20:58 pm
------------------------
-> hector13 --4-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413851#msg8413851), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413855#msg8413855), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413868#msg8413868), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413884#msg8413884),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413810#msg8413810),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413885#msg8413885),
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --2-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413869#msg8413869), Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (2 hours and 39 minutes remaining.)
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 05:21:38 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 05:21:48 pm
That’s WIFOM, so anything else I say about it is also WIFOM.But you're suggesting that he's scum with me. And there's no way I'd allow it. Not even to say "there's no way I'd allow that!" later. There's WIFOM, and then there's just making completely unforced errors.
Just because you don’t approve of something doesn’t mean Jack doesn’t do it, there’s any number of reasons he could have made that mistake as scum.
Still WIFOM. Jack can post here without checking in scumchat, Jack could just completely ignore you, etc.
You may “never allow it” but unless you mind-control Jack or something, Jack can do whatever Jack pleases.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 05:22:20 pm
@Vector: You could add 4mask.And Vector performing a no-information-gained action of some kind.
My role is:
Day -- make it so that no one can be killed except for two people who I select, for that Night.
A covenchat with Jim so that we're confirmed to each other and have seen each other's role PMs. We're unconvertable.
My unused power is a one-shot medium power, adding someone else to my Covenchat. The person needs to be dead and the options were:
N1: add Tric to the coven chat. Absolutely not, so I none'd.
N2: add Tric or Egan or Persus to the coven chat. Also No.
Today is D3, I might add someone to my chat if someone useful dies, but as-is I can still communicate with Jim. That's it. That's my role.
(Still reading).
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 05:23:41 pm
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 05:24:01 pm
We're unconvertable.HOly shit are you saying you knew conversion was solidly on the table all this time. AHHH
Honestly, no, I didn't see it that way. That's the standard way that Web sets up masons; I didn't take it as "putting conversion on the table."
@Vector: You could add 4mask.
True.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 05:24:31 pm
Still WIFOM. Jack can post here without checking in scumchat, Jack could just completely ignore you, etc.Come on. You were just scum with me. You know that I would have had a fake claim worked out AHEAD OF TIME, and you can clearly see that Jack is the type who would have followed it.
You may “never allow it” but unless you mind-control Jack or something, Jack can do whatever Jack pleases.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 05:27:36 pm
You seem awfully confident there’s going to be a D4 if I get eliminated.Actually, I am not.
I think Toony has figured out who your scumbuddy is, and will probably shoot them tonight.
Hopefully, that is Town Victory.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 05:28:42 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 05:30:17 pm
Jack is… I’ve argued with Jack enough to know he goes to the beat of his own drum, particularly when he gets into it.
PPE: case in point:
You seem awfully confident there’s going to be a D4 if I get eliminated.Actually, I am not.
I think Toony has figured out who your scumbuddy is, and will probably shoot them tonight.
Hopefully, that is Town Victory.
*EJ realizes he shouldn’t know if there’ll be a D4*
This is why you suggest people to add to Vector’s coven chat for D4 aye.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 05:32:03 pm
You can still communicate with Jim? What's Jim's opinion on today and hector/nqt vs jack/max?This makes me nervous. Jim sometimes reads me (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178353.msg8272186#msg8272186) as scum when I'm town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178353.msg8272984#msg8272984).
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 05:33:40 pm
I know you’re a clever boy that’s why I keep bringing up the fact you were trying to say you weren’t :pSorry Hector.
Jack is… I’ve argued with Jack enough to know he goes to the beat of his own drum, particularly when he gets into it.
PPE: case in point:You seem awfully confident there’s going to be a D4 if I get eliminated.Actually, I am not.
I think Toony has figured out who your scumbuddy is, and will probably shoot them tonight.
Hopefully, that is Town Victory.
*EJ realizes he shouldn’t know if there’ll be a D4*
This is why you suggest people to add to Vector’s coven chat for D4 aye.
Some of us haven't been read into the setup, so we can imagine both there being a D4 and not being a D4.
Ah, the problems that Town players like me have. You wouldn't understand.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 05:34:37 pm
I don't care. I want the opinion of the confirmed town supervet player. It also gives Vector a chance to mess up if they're faking having chat with Jim.You can still communicate with Jim? What's Jim's opinion on today and hector/nqt vs jack/max?This makes me nervous. Jim sometimes reads me (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178353.msg8272186#msg8272186) as scum when I'm town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178353.msg8272984#msg8272984).
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 05:35:32 pm
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 05:38:12 pm
I don't care. I want the opinion of the confirmed town supervet player. It also gives Vector a chance to mess up if they're faking having chat with Jim.
Jim should be online, I'll wait for the response.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 05:38:59 pm
I know you’re a clever boy that’s why I keep bringing up the fact you were trying to say you weren’t :pI didn't say I wasn't. I said I don't really keep track of the gamestate very well (especially right before I make my night action, which is usually hours after the last time I was in the thread so I forgot everything). Honestly, if you thought hard about the time we were scum together you could figure it out, but nobody has noticed this tell yet so I'm not going to spoil it. The important thing is just that it's not "not being clever" that leads to "not noticing Lenglon's planned action".
Quote
Jack is… I’ve argued with Jack enough to know he goes to the beat of his own drum, particularly when he gets into it.Nahhh, after MVM5, I am pretty confident that Jack would work with me just fine.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 05:39:16 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 05:40:30 pm
Uh, hurrah?Hurrah!
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 05:41:32 pm
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 05:46:52 pm
Hector: all day, starting from when I made my initial accusation of you performing the N1 kill, your entire demeanor has changed. You suddenly became dramatically more confident and aggressive compared to D1 and D2. Why?
The uncertainty over who performed the kill N1, has given me the confidence to push the case I want to see.
Like on D1 when I was tied with Tric and Max (I think I haven’t check) but I didn’t like either of them as scum so I didn’t vote for them, and on D2 I was having trouble posting because of personal things, so I said who I wanted to vote for but didn’t because there was still uncertainty in the game, but other people were pushing the game forward so I didn’t feel the need to try to post as much.
I’m still dealing with personal things but there’s only one case to push, unless you count the case for a no lynch too.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 05:53:10 pm
@Max:
Why are you claiming? You should have at least not mentioned the being recruited part. You also phrased it like you expect to die today.All right, I'm not planning to hang around the rest of the day, so I guess I might as well spill what I know. It's not much, but it might be helpful still.Vote CountIf I logged off for the day with 5 votes on me I'd sure feel I was going to die and start spilling the beans.
------------------------
Maximum Spin - 5 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015), hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410089#msg8410089), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410127#msg8410127),
Stream of consciousness post incoming.
Here's Persus chainsawing Max.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 05:54:47 pm
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 05:57:19 pm
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 05:59:47 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 06:00:11 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/ZisqC8R.png)
Thread Activity:
(https://i.imgur.com/VqPzoUx.gif)
End of Day 2 Vote Count:
(https://i.imgur.com/XYm6uRp.png)
Thread Activity:
(https://i.imgur.com/OsIqdNT.gif)
Near End of Day 3 Vote Count:
(https://i.imgur.com/VNgBd0w.png)
Thread Activity:
(https://i.imgur.com/VqPzoUx.gif)
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 06:03:15 pm
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:04:03 pm
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 06:05:17 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 06:05:30 pm
Toony, that doesn't mean much. Egan basically walked away in the middle of D2.My point is that the end of D1 and this end of D3 have been hectic because scum are in the crossfires, unlike D2 where scum was not in the crossfires and everyone happily voted Egan.
Those players being Hector/Max/Jack/NQT.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:08:02 pm
If Hector is scum then I am 80% sure that Hector was converted N1. There are a lot of Persus/Hector interactions D1 that don't look w/w outside of tinfoil hat territory.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 06:10:18 pm
My reread is solidly supporting that Hector/NQT and Jack/Max would have to be the teams in terms of behavior (not just mechanically clearing), I'll start posting again soon.My understanding is that there is no reason to think Persus was ever on the same team as the scum we're currently hunting.
If Hector is scum then I am 80% sure that Hector was converted N1. There are a lot of Persus/Hector interactions D1 that don't look w/w outside of tinfoil hat territory.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 06:11:55 pm
I don't think Hector is partners with Persus either. I made a post about it. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412222#msg8412222) I think it's even less likely Persus was with Max.
You can't argue Persus is partners with anyone without saying that they also killed Persus for some reason. The kill methods between Persus and Jim are the same.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:15:57 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
-> hector13 - 3 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410452#msg8410452), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410605#msg8410605), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410759#msg8410759),
-> Maximum Spin - 3 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410386#msg8410386), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410410#msg8410410), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410015#msg8410015),
-> TricMagic - 3 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410707#msg8410707), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410710#msg8410710), Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410717#msg8410717),
4maskwolf - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410048#msg8410048),
Egan_BW - 1 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410726#msg8410726),
notquitethere - 1 - Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410221#msg8410221),
EuchreJack - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Knightwing64 - 0 -
Lenglon - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
No One - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410628#msg8410628),
7 to Hammer. Day ends on September 23, 2022 at 22:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 2 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, Evil forces choose the execution target.
Maximum Spin isn't saving himself so he has balls of steal or he's town.
What you gonna do Hector?
Or, Maximum Spin is evil, and being in front and tied wasn't a problem.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:17:17 pm
You should totally take this then. It'll be good to have two of it. I plan to use it tonight if I don't get, you know, strung up.I have an ability to steal a player's action, which I plan on using on Tric. To me, that will prove Tric's alignment, which I'm reasonably sure is Town.Steal as in actually steal, or copy?
I can give you a pretty good action, but I'd be worried about you up and dying with it.
Not steal, COPY. Sorry about that, my role is Thief, so thematically it's called Mind Steal or something, but it's actually copy.
So yeah, I would prefer to copy Tric's action, but anyone else think they got something cool they're going to use, let me know.
This was a very interesting public interaction.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 06:25:41 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 06:27:08 pm
I really think you should vote.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 06:28:16 pm
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:28:50 pm
Vote ShiftsMaybe you'd better share it now.
So here's how things stood:Spoiler: Tric Wagon (click to show/hide)Then it gets interesting... what does Max do? He jumps on the 4mask wagon:Spoiler: When I tied the vote Tric/4mask (click to show/hide)Lol, I was just about to post that I support a 4maskwolf lynch too.
And then as soon as something else becomes viable:Let's go with EuchreJack. I'm not convinced he didn't just entirely make up his gelling read on Maximum Spin so that he could town read him.
Then he goes to the EJ wagon:Sure, whatever. EuchreJack.
Before swiftly unvoting:Unvote, by the way.Things shift quickly against Max:Spoiler: 4mask/EJ tie (click to show/hide)And so Max does a completely bald-faced lie of a reason to get on the wagon that will save him:Spoiler: Max Wagon (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Max/NQT tie (click to show/hide)
So what have we seen? Max behaves entirely opportunistically, jumping on whatever wagon looks popular, and jumps off when he's concerned what it looks like.I feel like voting again will probably backfire again somehow,
Jim is spot on here. Max is disingenuous. Absolutely happy to launch Max today:Are you talking about your case here:That wasn't a "case", that was a "vote", with "some words attached". I wanted to see if notquitethere was pinging anyone else the way he was me, and it seemed like he wasn't, so I didn't push it at the time since I had other people to worry about too.
Making an exploratory d1 vote without explaining it is what I almost always do. It's probably NAI rather than townie because I think I've done it as scum, but it shouldn't strike you as surprising at all.
You asshole, I ask you about shit and apparently you lie about it.
'oh i was just messing with notquitethere'
'oh well actually i was testing the waters to see how other people feel about notquitethere'
I should vote you and throw Lynch All Liars in your face.
All to say... if Max is scum, then 4mask is probably not a scum partner. So I should be voting Maximum Spin (but I still want to hear some answers from 4mask).
Specifically, here's some context that got shaved off, and which explains why Max shifted his vote:
Sure, whatever. EuchreJack.I think Jack is incredibly readable, but look, if this is something we're just going to have to push past, I'll vote him if you want, okay? At some point you people are going to have to accept that I'll vote for anyone because I am not on a scumteam. :P
Do it, then.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 06:30:06 pm
I've reviewed the Day 2 votecounts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412545;topicseen#msg8412545), and (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412414;topicseen#msg8412414) Hector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412245;topicseen#msg8412245) did (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412004;topicseen#msg8412004) not (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411765;topicseen#msg8411765) vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411532;topicseen#msg8411532) once (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411346;topicseen#msg8411346).
Uh huh. I’ve covered this plenty. RTFT.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:32:50 pm
Okay, Knightwing, if you're town, you need to step it up again.+1
If you're scum, continue as you are.
In retrospect, pulling this quote out: I don't think this is two scum with a chat.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 06:33:40 pm
I've reviewed the Day 2 votecounts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412545;topicseen#msg8412545), and (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412414;topicseen#msg8412414) Hector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412245;topicseen#msg8412245) did (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8412004;topicseen#msg8412004) not (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411765;topicseen#msg8411765) vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411532;topicseen#msg8411532) once (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411346;topicseen#msg8411346).
Uh huh. I’ve covered this plenty. RTFT.
My apologies, I wasn't around for parts of Day 2, and the beginning of Day 3. I recall you mentioning personal issues, which I get. Is that the only explanation, or did you mention something else?
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 06:36:02 pm
Which I don’t want to have to repeat again in some twisted variation on being asked the same questions in D1 and 2.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:37:34 pm
If I could vote Max without ending the day, that's where my vote would be right now. I'm pulling a lot of quotes.
Well, I mixed up the leaders, but I did think that Max was scum on the basis of interactions between Persus and Hector. It took me a minute to catch up on the fact that Persus had to be solo.
So, for my end of D1 analysis: I don't think that Max and EJ share a chat. If we're looking for paired scum, it's more likely to be Hector/NQT. Of these two, I am solidly comfortable with either but Hector leads slightly. Rereading D2 now.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:41:57 pm
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:46:40 pm
I can see your reasoning. If that's what happened, then I wonder if someone protected Hector?Vector, good job, but why Hector and Persus?
I wanted one person who I was completely fine with dying (was originally Tric but I switched last minute to Persus) and one person who I thought would be appetizing for the scumteam in case we have a watcher (originally Toony but I decided that was too appetizing and I preferred to protect him, switched to Hector).
This rings my bells as docfishing. NQT.
Another option, of course, is that Hector is scum.
Also, I stand by this old post.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:48:18 pm
Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.
This post is interesting ... Lenglon had an ability to block conversions. This is stronger evidence that conversion is in the game.
It's especially interesting to me that Jack decided not to thief Max given the conversation that I pulled.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:49:27 pm
Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.
It's especially interesting to me that Jack decided not to thief Max given the conversation that I pulled.
If you believe that I'm scum, you have to believe that EuchreJack is also scum. There's no middle ground available; either I willingly and openly gave EuchreJack an ability that prevents mafiakills (by using it), or we're both lying.
Did I miss something?
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 06:49:51 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
-> hector13 --4-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413851#msg8413851), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413855#msg8413855), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413868#msg8413868), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413884#msg8413884),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413810#msg8413810),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413885#msg8413885),
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --2-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413869#msg8413869), Vector,
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (2 hours and 39 minutes remaining.)
That’s the most recent votecount I think, minus Vector’s vote.
PPE: I think Jack did copy Max N1? That’s why I think they’re the scum team.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 06:50:30 pm
Lenglon actually just read my night results, which were "Action Successful", thus proving that nothing else happened to me.Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.
This post is interesting ... Lenglon had an ability to block conversions. This is stronger evidence that conversion is in the game.
It's especially interesting to me that Jack decided not to thief Max given the conversation that I pulled.
And... Jack did thief me? He even explained what he got in there.
Yes. Hold on a sec.Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.
It's especially interesting to me that Jack decided not to thief Max given the conversation that I pulled.If you believe that I'm scum, you have to believe that EuchreJack is also scum. There's no middle ground available; either I willingly and openly gave EuchreJack an ability that prevents mafiakills (by using it), or we're both lying.
Did I miss something?
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 06:52:58 pm
Claim: I got offered a Devil Deal.I realize he doesn't actually outright say it, but that's the action I took, which he shouldn't be able to know about unless he had copied it (because I used it to roleblock NQT).I didn't touch Lenglon in any way. I roleblocked notquitethere. EuchreJack can hopefully confirm my action, which, incidentally, is pretty obviously towny.Well, it's not Mafia, since on a certain night, it stops the Mafia Night Kill and reveals the Mafia's target.
So we Don't Lynch Max. We don't want another Tric fiasco.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 06:54:43 pm
As Max said, I was making a partial claim to see if Max would claim a night result he didn't get, the reality (as I said later the same day) was that I simply knew Max's night results, not actually block conversions.Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.
This post is interesting ... Lenglon had an ability to block conversions. This is stronger evidence that conversion is in the game.
It's especially interesting to me that Jack decided not to thief Max given the conversation that I pulled.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 06:54:49 pm
Unvote
Could it be….
And you nearly got away with it,
Didn’t you?
JACK
Dun dun dun
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 06:55:12 pm
Hector being Evil would also imply Vector is a giant chad, but I don't think we're that lucky. Plus mafia would just not kill.
Borrowing this for posterity ... LOL.
Here:Claim: I got offered a Devil Deal.I realize he doesn't actually outright say it, but that's the action I took, which he shouldn't be able to know about unless he had copied it (because I used it to roleblock NQT).I didn't touch Lenglon in any way. I roleblocked notquitethere. EuchreJack can hopefully confirm my action, which, incidentally, is pretty obviously towny.Well, it's not Mafia, since on a certain night, it stops the Mafia Night Kill and reveals the Mafia's target.
So we Don't Lynch Max. We don't want another Tric fiasco.
So, you, Max, blocked NQT. And Jack was given your block.
I see, so Jack stole from NQT, you gave him an ability, AND EJ was offered a devil deal?
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 06:57:27 pm
I "stole" (actually copied) Max's ability, and Lenglon gave me NQT's ability, and I was offered a devil deal by Knightwing. It's not my fault that I apparently have a ton of friends!Hector being Evil would also imply Vector is a giant chad, but I don't think we're that lucky. Plus mafia would just not kill.
Borrowing this for posterity ... LOL.Here:Claim: I got offered a Devil Deal.I realize he doesn't actually outright say it, but that's the action I took, which he shouldn't be able to know about unless he had copied it (because I used it to roleblock NQT).I didn't touch Lenglon in any way. I roleblocked notquitethere. EuchreJack can hopefully confirm my action, which, incidentally, is pretty obviously towny.Well, it's not Mafia, since on a certain night, it stops the Mafia Night Kill and reveals the Mafia's target.
So we Don't Lynch Max. We don't want another Tric fiasco.
So, you, Max, blocked NQT. And Jack was given your block.
I see, so Jack stole from NQT, you gave him an ability, AND EJ was offered a devil deal?
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 06:57:44 pm
So, you, Max, blocked NQT. And Jack was given your block.Technically, he stole from me, and Lenglon gave him one of NQT's abilities.
I see, so Jack stole from NQT, you gave him an ability, AND EJ was offered a devil deal?
But yeah he was popular that night. No idea why. I did think he seemed pretty townie then though.
I admit I agree with ToonyMan that his towniness seemed to have dropped afterward, but because of the power of that block, I would prefer not to lynch him unless we're surer than I feel.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 06:58:03 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 06:58:49 pm
ARE WE GOING FOR JACK OR HECTOR
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 06:59:31 pm
I mean, when I claimed on D2 I also said I can't be converted. I don't know why NQT didn't flip the fuck out like he did when you claimed you can't be converted today. My guess is that he's just trying to stir shit right now to try to avoid him or his buddy getting lynched.Claim: Jack, last night you gained a new ability with a monster tag. That ability is a copy of an ability NQT had. Also, I used my bonus for speaking truthfully to ensure Max did not change alignment last night.This post is interesting ... Lenglon had an ability to block conversions. This is stronger evidence that conversion is in the game.
It's especially interesting to me that Jack decided not to thief Max given the conversation that I pulled.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 06:59:49 pm
AHHHHector.
ARE WE GOING FOR JACK OR HECTOR
Jack didn't do anything bad. He was supposed to copy my action, it's pro-town.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 06:59:52 pm
AHHHYou shouldn't be asking a question about that. You should be making a statement about that.
ARE WE GOING FOR JACK OR HECTOR
My vote is on Hector.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 07:00:56 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:01:15 pm
But
Lenglon said three mins
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 07:01:45 pm
... dude, there's another whole hour. :Pspoilsport.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 07:02:11 pm
Post by: Mamobo on October 02, 2022, 07:02:32 pm
------------------------
-> hector13 --3-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413851#msg8413851), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413855#msg8413855), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413868#msg8413868),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413810#msg8413810),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413885#msg8413885),
notquitethere --1-- Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414005#msg8414005),
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --2-- Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414021#msg8414021), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413869#msg8413869),
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 57 minutes remaining.)
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:03:43 pm
I "stole" (actually copied) Max's ability, and Lenglon gave me NQT's ability, and I was offered a devil deal by Knightwing. It's not my fault that I apparently have a ton of friends!
Not at all, I just thought you had "stolen" NQT's ability and couldn't see how this was consistent with your prior actions.
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2022, 07:04:09 pm
Yeah, that is my fault. Web and his crazy time zones has been throwing me off the entire game.... THE TIME ZONE AND THE TIME LEFT IS ON THE VOTE COUNT!
I literally can't make it any clearer.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 07:04:16 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 07:06:46 pm
I've seen people get confused because they have the time display set to forum time, but THINK it's set to local time, or vice versa, so that they then get confused about what the forum time actually is.Yeah, that is my fault. Web and his crazy time zones has been throwing me off the entire game.... THE TIME ZONE AND THE TIME LEFT IS ON THE VOTE COUNT!
I literally can't make it any clearer.
I just remember that forum time is an hour behind me.
importantly, KW didn't dogpile Hector with Max and Jack when the time fake-out happened, so I'm now far less concerned about Scum!Max having converted KW to his team.I appreciate your thoroughness but I think he would have shouted at me less. And also I'm just not scum this time.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 07:07:30 pm
importantly, KW didn't dogpile Hector with Max and Jack when the time fake-out happened, so I'm now far less concerned about Scum!Max having converted KW to his team.Knightwing is clearly thinking by himself. I think it's because he's town.
I don't believe any conversions have actually happened (whether they exist or not), mainly because scum have killed on N1 and N2.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 07:08:19 pm
He was slow enough at posting after day start that you had time to caoch him, and his initial reaction felt unnatural. It's a side-concern I've been watching but not acting on all day.I've seen people get confused because they have the time display set to forum time, but THINK it's set to local time, or vice versa, so that they then get confused about what the forum time actually is.Yeah, that is my fault. Web and his crazy time zones has been throwing me off the entire game.... THE TIME ZONE AND THE TIME LEFT IS ON THE VOTE COUNT!
I literally can't make it any clearer.
I just remember that forum time is an hour behind me.importantly, KW didn't dogpile Hector with Max and Jack when the time fake-out happened, so I'm now far less concerned about Scum!Max having converted KW to his team.I appreciate your thoroughness but I think he would have shouted at me less. And also I'm just not scum this time.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:09:13 pm
Hehehehe
:D
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:09:38 pm
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 07:10:21 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 07:10:53 pm
And no, I don't think Persus did some power to kill themselves to convert someone.importantly, KW didn't dogpile Hector with Max and Jack when the time fake-out happened, so I'm now far less concerned about Scum!Max having converted KW to his team.Knightwing is clearly thinking by himself. I think it's because he's town.
I don't believe any conversions have actually happened (whether they exist or not), mainly because scum have killed on N1 and N2.
1. Vector chose Hector and Persus as the only kill targets, this is either a really lucky coincidence or Vector is in cahoots with Persus
2. Persus did not look like he expected to die at all on D1, they said things that implied they expected to be around for D2 (also because they're Evil and probably thought they'd be around)
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:16:13 pm
So either Toony or the killer is a vig and the other is probably an SK (I agree with Toony that it's unlikely there's two vigs). So the best way to resolve this is Egan.
Here's another really lousy NQT post, which gets him into the "third on the wagon" position. The context is that we're trying to find out who killed Persus.
Quote
hector13 -- received three role names, and how many of each there are in the game. The roles received were Mystic, Wizard, and Sage.
From Lenglon's action record. It occurred to me suddenly that this could have been a Day action, which to me is the easiest possible permutation of the information that we have.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:17:04 pm
@Max & Knightwing64: Could we de-escalate your feud and have you both vote Jim? First to switch gets FREE Townpoints!
I again don't think this is w/w for EJ/Max.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:20:40 pm
I strained my right index finger yesterday and it's making typing hard okay? I'm using my right middle finger like it's the index which sucks.
Sureeeeee
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 07:21:27 pm
The flip (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411157#msg8411157)
In the opening post, we learn that Recruit is AFTER Kill.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 07:22:05 pm
Translation: Lenglon is giving you the finger.I strained my right index finger yesterday and it's making typing hard okay? I'm using my right middle finger like it's the index which sucks.
Sureeeeee
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 07:22:48 pm
That’s lucky ‘cause it sounds like Lenglon needs one.Translation: Lenglon is giving you the finger.I strained my right index finger yesterday and it's making typing hard okay? I'm using my right middle finger like it's the index which sucks.
Sureeeeee
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:24:20 pm
Is it possible!?
Is this…
Crouching tiger, hidden douchebag?
I thought that technique was lost to time….
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 07:24:30 pm
I suspect Persus13 was a Cult Leader.If this is true then we never had to worry about conversions because the traditional Evil killed the conversion Evil on N1.
The flip (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8411157#msg8411157)
In the opening post, we learn that Recruit is AFTER Kill.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:24:55 pm
Translation: Lenglon is giving you the finger.I strained my right index finger yesterday and it's making typing hard okay? I'm using my right middle finger like it's the index which sucks.
Sureeeeee
Impossible, they need that finger to type
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 07:27:53 pm
Hector?I think Crouching Douchebag, Hidden Tiger is more accurate...
Is it possible!?
Is this…
Crouching tiger, hidden douchebag?
I thought that technique was lost to time….
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:28:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 07:31:59 pm
ToonyMan: I'm trying to work out the best way to confirm or disprove the existence of the two blocks tonight. I think that lynching Jack and having you shoot me if he turns out to be Evil could be workable. I'd live, my block would be provable, and I'd be left defenseless. Mafia would probably kill me if I didn't hit right, but that could still be a town victory if the rest of you can pull it off from there. I'm afraid that the mafia have some way around just one block, though: specifically, I'm not sure how natural action resolution would affect it if someone I'm not blocking blocks my block. I'd rather lynch one of NQT and hector, or nobody: in those cases there would be two blocks in play if Jack is in fact town (which I think). But I'll defer to your choice.Fine, I'll vote. But I'm not making a choice. I'm choosing someone to believe in and I'm voting with them.
I really think you should vote.
And that person is Vector. I think this is fitting, because Vector has given up their vote for me two days in a row. Now, I give my vote to Vector.
I'm gonna vote NQT and see what happens.NQT
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:32:47 pm
This is such a fucking stressful reread >:[
Don’t worry, I’ll….
Caoch… you through it.
HAHailhbbuefafugdsv
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 07:35:57 pm
LOL!This is such a fucking stressful reread >:[
Don’t worry, I’ll….
Caoch… you through it.
HAHailhbbuefafugdsv
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:36:41 pm
@Toony, I'm going to vote Hector in a minute. Don't sheep me if you don't want him at L-1.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 07:37:11 pm
@Toony, I'm going to vote Hector in a minute. Don't sheep me if you don't want him at L-1.Okay.
Post by: Mamobo on October 02, 2022, 07:38:48 pm
------------------------
-> hector13 --3-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413851#msg8413851), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413855#msg8413855), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413868#msg8413868),
notquitethere --2-- Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414005#msg8414005), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414076#msg8414076),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413810#msg8413810),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413885#msg8413885),
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --1-- Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414021#msg8414021),
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 21 minutes remaining.)
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:39:24 pm
@Knightwing, stop.
Boooo
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:39:30 pm
- The N1 kill is a puzzle a lot of players are getting caught up in. And yeah, I love a puzzle too. But I've also been burned a million times in these role mad games. Especially by Wuba. It'll turn out someone had two actions, a ghost companion that tricked trackers or could summon angels to do their bidding or some batshit thing that we're not anticipating. Let's see who cares about catching scum and who doesn't.
Interesting attempt to get us to stop discussing the N1 kill.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:40:59 pm
Caoch me…
Okay. That wasn’t my best, I’ll stop, but only because I’ve ran out of jokes
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:42:34 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on October 02, 2022, 07:42:39 pm
It was pretty good, I wish NQT would…Caoch you later!
Caoch me…
Okay. That wasn’t my best, I’ll stop, but only because I’ve ran out of jokes
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:43:36 pm
Right. Hector13.
If you aren't scum with NQT, it's hard for me to understand why you wouldn't try to pin Persus' murder on an NQT superkill.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 02, 2022, 07:44:31 pm
It was pretty good, I wish NQT would…Caoch you later!
Caoch me…
Okay. That wasn’t my best, I’ll stop, but only because I’ve ran out of jokes
U get me
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 07:45:49 pm
Yeah Vector, you show Vector how it's done and put all that lynch pressure on Vector there. Vector gonna regret that scummy action there eh Vector?Right. Hector13.
If you aren't scum with NQT, it's hard for me to understand why you wouldn't try to pin Persus' murder on an NQT superkill.
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 07:46:33 pm
Spoiler: N1 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: N2 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolenames (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 07:49:18 pm
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 07:54:52 pm
I am waaay too ... curious about this.
Post by: Mamobo on October 02, 2022, 07:58:25 pm
------------------------
-> hector13 --4-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413851#msg8413851), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413855#msg8413855), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413868#msg8413868), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414091#msg8414091),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413810#msg8413810),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413885#msg8413885),
notquitethere --1-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414076#msg8414076),
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --1-- Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414021#msg8414021),
5 to Hammer. Day ends on October 02, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (0 hours and 1 minute remaining.)
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 07:58:29 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 02, 2022, 07:59:08 pm
t-5.As am I.
I am waaay too ... curious about this.
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2022, 08:00:00 pm
Jack
Jack
Jack
Jack
Jack
Thank you and goodnight.
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2022, 08:20:07 pm
“You see,” he says, as his limbs begin to morph, granting him beast-like claws dripping with venom, “I am something of a Druid. I can take the form of many creatures and hear the whispers of the forest spirits, but I am not a monster! And yet, I must tell you before I die that you are being misl–”
As he talks, The Elder approaches, with increasing speed, slamming into hector13 and grasping his neck. hector13 struggles, kicking his legs desperately against the unnatural strength of The Elder, who then spins, throwing him into the Burning Sun in one motion. hector13’s body slams into the wall behind it, breaking several bones in an already dead body.
“I can already tell you that he was Evil,” The Elder reassures you. “He was going to tell you lies. I couldn’t let that happen. But, I can tell that there is still more Evil among you that must be sacrificed to the Burning Sun.” You notice that the fireball has turned from a deep crimson to a flickering black. “It is still hungry.”
Vote Count
------------------------
-> hector13 --4-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413851#msg8413851), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413855#msg8413855), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413868#msg8413868), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414091#msg8414091),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414111#msg8414111),
Maximum Spin --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8413885#msg8413885),
notquitethere --1-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414076#msg8414076),
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --1-- Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414021#msg8414021),
hector13 has been executed.
hector13 was a Druid (Evil).
It is now Night. You have 24 hours to send in your action.
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2022, 10:43:47 pm
The Elder speaks to you all, ushering you to find the remaining monsters. All must be purged! For the Burning Sun.
No one died during the Night.
Vote Count
------------------------
EuchreJack --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
Vector --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --7-- EuchreJack, Knightwing64, Lenglon, Maximum Spin, notquitethere, ToonyMan, Vector,
4 to Hammer. Day ends on October 04, 2022 at 20:00 Central Daylight Time (~45 hours remaining).
It is now Day.
Post by: Vector on October 02, 2022, 10:48:33 pm
Post by: Lenglon on October 02, 2022, 10:56:38 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 11:54:58 pm
Hehehehehehehe
I know exactly what a certain someone did last night and I think it explains your night results Lenglon.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 02, 2022, 11:59:30 pm
Otherwise looks like a bit of Evil trolling.
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2022, 12:01:16 am
Hissssssssss
*sees reflection in mirror*
Ah! A ghost!
…
Oh.
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 12:14:47 am
NQT's ability is a redirect. It picks two targets and redirects them to each other.The funny thing is my action last night wasn't able to target living players, I got redirected to you, and it "succeeded", but it didn't do what I expected it to do.
Did someone protect you last night Toony? I could have sworn I was forced to murder you overnight but afterwards when I looked at your body it was gone and there was no blood or gore or anything, and you seem alive right now...
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 12:37:47 am
As you can see, it didn't work because I know who he targeted.
I don't know why NQT wasn't blocked by Max or Jack, but either way if what you're saying is true then I'm alive because of how my role works.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 02:03:30 am
Sucks I was wrong about Hector, but also it's great others were right about him. Let's find the last Evil players and win this game.
Vector, do you have something to share with the class?
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 02:10:06 am
Yes, I used my one-shot to prevent my own death, all of you would have done the same thing.Someone fact-check me, who was it that self-voted in a tournament when they were town and knew they had to die to prevent a next-day mislynch for a town win?
Quote
I was worried about Max having some game winning power interaction, but I figured (and was right) that Lenglon would have some monster protection.What are you talking about? I've had zero defenses of any kind from the beginning of the game all the way through to now.
Now then, explain why my night action results were so weird NQT. What EXACTLY did you do to me and Toonyman last night?
Post by: Vector on October 03, 2022, 02:11:38 am
Vector, do you have something to share with the class?
uhhhh... no?
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 02:18:28 am
Vector must be the last Evil player: three separate serial killers. My guess is Hector was the only one with a straight up kill. Vector has a reanimated zombie (tonight we will see some horrible murder from it if we don't stop them). Persus probably gained power the later the game went on and wasn't able to ramp up in time.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 02:19:22 am
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 02:22:26 am
Post by: Vector on October 03, 2022, 02:25:44 am
The hint about conversion was right there! There's now a zombie 4mask running around.
Vector must be the last Evil player: three separate serial killers. My guess is Hector was the only one with a straight up kill. Vector has a reanimated zombie (tonight we will see some horrible murder from it if we don't stop them). Persus probably gained power the later the game went on and wasn't able to ramp up in time.
My unused power is a one-shot medium power, adding someone else to my Covenchat. The person needs to be dead and the options were:
N1: add Tric to the coven chat. Absolutely not, so I none'd.
N2: add Tric or Egan or Persus to the coven chat. Also No.
Today is D3, I might add someone to my chat if someone useful dies, but as-is I can still communicate with Jim. That's it. That's my role.
I added 4mask to the chat as EJ suggested.
Now I'm going to bed, because this is unbelievably stupid.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 02:27:29 am
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 02:33:53 am
Last night the following happened:
1) I was redirected away from the graveyard and instead to Toonyman's home.
2) I was compelled to Consume Toonyman's sleeping form, killing him.
3) When I regained control of myself, Toonyman's body had disappeared and I felt empty again.
4) Bold text: Redirected to Toonyman
4) Bold-text: My action "Succeeded".
5) PM convo with Web in confusion: My 1-shot use of Consume WAS expended.
6) PM convo with Web in confusion: I did NOT get Persus's roleflip.
7) PM convo with Web in confusion: there were zero errors in my night action result.
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 02:37:42 am
Post by: EuchreJack on October 03, 2022, 03:32:59 am
So remember how Max and I said there was one night our Roleblocker transformed to stop the Mafia Kill?
Yeah, that was Last Night.
Post by: EuchreJack on October 03, 2022, 03:40:47 am
I guess I'll go to bed also. If everyone else wants to vote NQT, fine with me.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 04:37:36 am
Town is mafia….
and mafia is town?
Now that I think about it, town has very evil roles while mafia doesn’t.
Town has witches and demon summoners.
Mafia has druids.
Also, last night I found out the eve of the burning sun is held in one of the storehouses.
They might just be flavor, but it could be important.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 04:49:35 am
Lenglon, if you do silly things like eat corpses, you can expect strange results. I can at least confirm that Persus's grave is undisturbed.
Last Night was the Night, The Night Begins To Shine (https://youtu.be/lSLXS0bjSCs)If that's true then Toony and has a mafia kill: he claims to have tried to murder someone and yet no kill occurred and he wasn't blocked.
So remember how Max and I said there was one night our Roleblocker transformed to stop the Mafia Kill?
Yeah, that was Last Night.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 04:51:46 am
It was a no action and web said “did you think you would do ping nothing, you were always a wildcard in your coven”
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 04:52:02 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 06:47:39 am
I don't know why NQT wasn't blocked by Max or Jack, but either way if what you're saying is true then I'm alive because of how my role works.Because tonight, our block doesn't block people like that. It just blocks the mafiakill.
Still reading the thread.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 06:58:48 am
Town is mafia….If this is true, then Toony would be scum though, as he's claimed monster hunter. I mean... that fits with his kill not working.
...
They might just be flavor, but it could be important.
(Vector is still some form of necromancer but...)
Toony, why didn't Lenglon die? If the blocks only block mafia kills, why is Lenglon still alive??
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 07:00:25 am
Note that, if there had been a mafiakill, there should have been an announcement of the target; so we can assume Evil no-killed. This isn't extremely useful because anyone could have guessed this was the right night to do so, thanks to EuchreJack oversharing that one time.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 07:01:19 am
Knightwing is just talking about the flavor making it clear that town are evil cultists. It isn't mechanically important.Town is mafia….If this is true, then Toony would be scum though, as he's claimed monster hunter. I mean... that fits with his kill not working.
...
They might just be flavor, but it could be important.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 07:04:52 am
If that's true then Toony and has a mafia kill: he claims to have tried to murder someone and yet no kill occurred and he wasn't blocked.He never claimed that. None of his posts today say it. You're just making it up. As usual for this game.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 07:28:25 am
Because I didn't shoot last night. :PTown is mafia….If this is true, then Toony would be scum though, as he's claimed monster hunter. I mean... that fits with his kill not working.
...
They might just be flavor, but it could be important.
(Vector is still some form of necromancer but...)
Toony, why didn't Lenglon die? If the blocks only block mafia kills, why is Lenglon still alive??
I tracked NQT and saw them visit me and Lenglon.
I assume NQT wanted to make me shoot Lenglon, or maybe have us kill each other? Either way, I'm a little sad by your performance...Evil!!
NQT
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 07:32:13 am
Back onto Vector the necromancer.
You have to shoot them when I flip town, but doing the maths, it may already be too late by that point.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 07:33:39 am
The hint about conversion was right there! There's now a zombie 4mask running around.Haha yeah, and Evil!Vector puts in the work to find and bus BOTH of their solo Evil partners Persus and Hector.
Vector must be the last Evil player: three separate serial killers. My guess is Hector was the only one with a straight up kill. Vector has a reanimated zombie (tonight we will see some horrible murder from it if we don't stop them). Persus probably gained power the later the game went on and wasn't able to ramp up in time.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 07:37:46 am
Independent serial killers. Bad luck for them tbh. Keep up.The hint about conversion was right there! There's now a zombie 4mask running around.Haha yeah, and Evil!Vector puts in the work to find and bus BOTH of their solo Evil partners Persus and Hector.
Vector must be the last Evil player: three separate serial killers. My guess is Hector was the only one with a straight up kill. Vector has a reanimated zombie (tonight we will see some horrible murder from it if we don't stop them). Persus probably gained power the later the game went on and wasn't able to ramp up in time.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 07:40:54 am
Well here's what you do: you NK Vector because they're the necromancer. Graves don't desecrate themselves!
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 08:28:58 am
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 08:30:44 am
There's been plenty of time for people to hammer. I think this clearly narrows the field.There's roughly one or two serial killers left, this comment makes no sense.
But I get it! You have your post restriction to think of.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 08:54:40 am
I'm not joining the rest of you guys' weird suicide cult, though, okay. You hear that, webadict? You better write me getting out!
Hell is empty, and all the devils are here.
notquitethere
ps: no, I'm not secretly Evil. If I'm somehow wrong about NQT that is 100% My Bad.
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 09:14:22 am
Good wins, as well as Maximum Spin and Lenglon.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 09:27:33 am
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 09:27:37 am
Also, I'm smiling here because I was right that Max wasn't town! My gut, Evil (actually good) as it might be, knew he wasn't legit.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 09:29:10 am
Also, I'm smiling here because I was right that Max wasn't town! My gut, Evil (actually good) as it might be, knew he wasn't legit.Nah, I just decided at the beginning to help town. I had options, but I chose this.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 09:31:35 am
You guys don't even know yet how lucky you got.So Evil had a conversion right? It doesn't look like it was able to ever happen which is a huge blow to Evil, since they would have had 4 Evil with the convert instead of just 3.
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 09:32:44 am
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 09:37:11 am
Vector got lucky, choosing two scum team members as the only night targets. We were worried a vig or SK might hit us, and wanted to get at least one kill off, so Hector shot Persus and I tried to redirect Hector to EJ. This would have worked! But Max blocked me and so the kill went off unredirected. You all knew I had that power so you could have 100% POE'd the scum team from D2.
(Not that it ultimately mattered as we didn't have the momentum at that point, and there were no other malicious third parties to take up town's attention.)
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 09:38:09 am
And you guys couldn’t have done it without me
Truly I was the MVP of this game
I guess…
You could say…
That now I can “caoch” you guys
Heheh
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 09:38:37 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 09:40:42 am
Well Im amused at that considering how many times I asked Max if he was SURE he was town.Yes, it was annoying. I figured at that point admitting that I was only town-by-choice would probably just distract people more.
By the way, I wasn't trying to play like a survivor d1. I really do just have an overly-inflated sense of my own importance to town. :P
I could've won and left the game by lynching Knightwing. I (as you can easily tell) seriously considered it because I really did think Knightwing was anti-town, but I decided to be nice instead.
Hey, Knightwing, I see you're here, so tell me the truth, were you Good? The way your role was listed to me made me think you weren't, but I think that may have just been a misinterpretation on my part.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 09:40:58 am
Vector got lucky, choosing two scum team members as the only night targets. We were worried a vig or SK might hit us, and wanted to get at least one kill off, so Hector shot Persus and I tried to redirect Hector to EJ. This would have worked! But Max blocked me and so the kill went off unredirected. You all knew I had that power so you could have 100% POE'd the scum team from D2.Hahahahahaha
(Not that it ultimately mattered as we didn't have the momentum at that point, and there were no other malicious third parties to take up town's attention.)
That's so risky wtf?? I would always assume mafia no kill if both of the 13s were Evil.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 09:42:02 am
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 09:43:00 am
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 09:43:29 am
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 09:44:54 am
HahahahahahaI would have been happy sitting and twiddling our thumbs, but the decision went through to make a bold play instead. And it would have been interesting and confusing if it had worked. The chances of any given person being blocked (or there even being a super-high-priority block in the game) is normally low.
That's so risky wtf?? I would always assume mafia no kill if both of the 13s were Evil.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 09:46:19 am
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 09:48:51 am
Trust me, it was confusing when it didn't work. I had no desire to out myself on D2 but I had to prove it was likely Evil killed Persus. Evil killing Evil meant that we had to consider very wacky scenarios as well.HahahahahahaI would have been happy sitting and twiddling our thumbs, but the decision went through to make a bold play instead. And it would have been interesting and confusing if it had worked. The chances of any given person being blocked (or there even being a super-high-priority block in the game) is normally low.
That's so risky wtf?? I would always assume mafia no kill if both of the 13s were Evil.
One of the reasons I felt Egan was a better pick than Hector was because I couldn't believe Vector would choose two Evil like a chad for N1.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 09:49:21 am
I think NQT has been scum for at least one if not more games that I've moderated. Nobody suspects NQT early on.Unfortunately my town aura did not last long, and some of that is ultimately that I could have played more active and solvey but wasn't up to it through sickness first and later inertia.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 09:51:41 am
Neutrals and Vector fucked the Evil team up, it's unbelievable.Town (+ -adjacents) did a great job overall, I'd say. Toony and EuchreJack too.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 09:52:54 am
Well Im amused at that considering how many times I asked Max if he was SURE he was town.Yes, it was annoying. I figured at that point admitting that I was only town-by-choice would probably just distract people more.
By the way, I wasn't trying to play like a survivor d1. I really do just have an overly-inflated sense of my own importance to town. :P
I could've won and left the game by lynching Knightwing. I (as you can easily tell) seriously considered it because I really did think Knightwing was anti-town, but I decided to be nice instead.
Hey, Knightwing, I see you're here, so tell me the truth, were you Good? The way your role was listed to me made me think you weren't, but I think that may have just been a misinterpretation on my part.
Yes. And you annoyed the hell out of me.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 09:54:46 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 09:55:58 am
Yes. And you annoyed the hell out of me.Lol, sorry. Your role was listed in my wincon as "Summoner (Witch)", in the same way as mine was listed as (might as well admit it) "Archdevil (Neutral)", so I thought it was some kind of third-party at first. It was only later that I realized from what the other players were saying that the only alignments were Good, Evil, and Neutral, so Witch was probably just your role word. By then I wasn't sure how to back out of it.
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 09:57:56 am
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 09:59:46 am
That final night's night result I got still has me confused by the way. That was weird.For what it's worth I didn't see you at all in my night action so you were probably tripping balls.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 10:01:45 am
I could tell Max had some irrational hate boner for Knightwing, but I was confident KW was Good so I just wanted Max to back off of KW. Thankfully it seems Max could cooperate with Good here...even if he was a Devil.ARCHdevil, thank you. Way too important to go around stealing souls with the proles. I only stole Knightwing's for a revive.
Which reminds me, while I did get a revive, it actually only fires on kill actions. I was 100% bluffing about surviving the lynch.
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 10:33:27 am
“I have won,” They tell him. “Your pathetic group was never enough to stop me. And now, I will feed you to my sun.”
notquitethere was hardly defenseless, though. He makes a snap-decision, grabbing ToonyMan and using the Retired Monster Hunter as a human shield. notquitethere searches through the man’s clothes, finding a shotgun. He turns the gun on The Elder. “What you’ve done is still a crime. Your Right of Governance was revoked, and this cult is illegal under Archon law.”
notquitethere pulls the trigger as Lenglon tackles him. The shot barely grazes The Elder, who turns and flees. You see that Lenglon has reverted to a particularly Ghoulish form, baring her teeth as thick saliva oozes from her mouth. Next to her stands Maximum Spin, now an enlarged devil–No, wait, an Archdevil you realize–who simply shrugs his shoulders. “Whelp,” he says. “I chose my side a long time ago. Should’ve taken up my offer to sacrifice Knightwing64.”
notquitethere gets to his feet in an instant, his Soul Knight training kicking in, reloading the shotgun with a single hand. Lenglon chooses this moment to attack, but finds her movements redirected mid leap towards Vector instead. The Folk Witch shields themself as the ghostly forms of Jim Groovester and 4maskwolf protect them. notquitethere aims the gun at Maximum Spin, as a small impling appears from nowhere, taking the bullet for him.
“Aggie!” Knightwing64 yells out, rushing to the impling’s side. The Summoner wails at the site of his former familiar bleeding out on the ground as Maximum Spin knocks the gun away.
The impling coughs up some hellish blood before breaking the invisible set of manacles around the Summoner’s wrists. “Heh. I always liked being a familiar. Now get lost, kid and…have a…good…Knight.” The impling poofs out of existence.
Maximum Spin continues to wrestle notquitethere, but eventually, the Soul Knight gets an advantage. The Archon summons the Light of the Gods to end this Archdevil’s life, but EuchreJack, having Mindjacked notquitethere earlier, redirects the beam into the Burning Sun instead. The Sun grows larger, soon collapsing in on itself like a Black Hole.
The Soul Knight looks on in horror at the destruction that has been allowed to happen under his watch. He tries to fly away, but cannot escape. He cannot warn the others of the impending doom. The Elder laughs in uncontrollable madness. They had finally made a weapon to end the Archons for good. They had finally defeated the forces of Evil.
And all it cost Them was a few sacrifices. Today is the Day of the Burning Sun.
Vote Count
------------------------
-> notquitethere --4-- Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414159#msg8414159), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414194#msg8414194), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414265#msg8414265), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414295#msg8414295),
Vector --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8414268#msg8414268),
EuchreJack --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
Lenglon --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --2-- EuchreJack, Knightwing64,
notquitethere has been executed.
notquitethere was an Archon Soul Knight (Evil).
Game Over. 4maskwolf, Egan_BW, EuchreJack, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64, Lenglon, Maximum Spin, ToonyMan, TricMagic, and Vector win.
Post by: TricMagic on October 03, 2022, 10:37:48 am
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 10:43:57 am
STOP
AGGIE
MAX, YOU CAUSED THIS
YOU ARE A ARCHDEMON AND CAN’T TANK A GUNSHOT?
AGGIE NOOOO
☹️
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 10:47:14 am
Here's my Google Doc with stuff: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fmERq0GwEvR5x6ETyos6oL-5u1zGd_rsX8kafRDh7uU/edit?usp=sharing
Here's Evilchat: https://discord.gg/tgY7tcnT
Here's Covenchat: https://discord.gg/cEkTwD6J
My thoughts:
I did make the scumteam a bit weaker than I intended to. I think some minor tweaks would've made the game much fairer.
Changing the game, I would've made Maximum Spin an Executioner/Mafia-Ally instead of an Executioner/Survivor. It was too easy for him to survive, and it doesn't really solve his flavor problems of needing the Witch to suffer, so make it so that the Witch loses makes him feel like he has a bit of freedom, but also effectively works for the Mafia.
I would've changed Vector's 1-Shot to be a you can only target Kills and no non-Kills on the targets in here, so that they couldn't be watched or protected. I'd probably also make the number of targets 3 in this case, but they did just get really lucky in targeting. It happens. I'm not sure if anything more would need to happen (If all 3 got targeted, well, then they got obscenely fucked, and that happens!)
I also should've made notquitethere unkillable, but didn't think about it. Also, hector13 should've had an extra action. I think these three changes make the game fairly balanced.
The game wasn't really that unbalanced, but the Town got a lot more tools to work with than the scum, and that's going to feel pretty bad. It doesn't help that Vector, Max, and Lenglon all kinda felt like they targeted Evil over the course of 4 days, hot damn. It's good play, for sure, don't want to downplay it, but it was also massively unlucky for them ON TOP OF THEM being a tad underpowered.
Post by: Persus13 on October 03, 2022, 11:24:19 am
I think if I'd realized the action order meant my stuff wouldn't fire before the kill went off I'd have advocated the more cautious route.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2022, 11:32:08 am
In short: in most games, you can redirect a blocker if the blocker isn't blocking the redirector, but in Web's games, blocking always happens first regardless.
This way of doing priority makes things simpler for the GM, but it does place all powers more firmly into a rigid hierarchy of usefulness.
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 11:48:38 am
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2022, 11:54:58 am
But yeah, town could have figured out the game and won N2, so surviving beyond that was a bonus.
Post by: Jim Groovester on October 03, 2022, 11:59:05 am
I feel good reading Persus13, notquitethere, and hector13 and even Maximum Spin to some extent somewhat correctly but I didn't put the hunches to good use.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 11:59:23 am
But yeah, town could have figured out the game and won N2, so surviving beyond that was a bonus.Well yeah, Egan doesn't res Tric, we lynch NQT instead. I then shoot you N2 for game.
Post by: Vector on October 03, 2022, 12:12:49 pm
One of the reasons I felt Egan was a better pick than Hector was because I couldn't believe Vector would choose two Evil like a chad for N1.
:V
Post by: 4maskwolf on October 03, 2022, 12:18:57 pm
Web: now that I know NQT's redirect permitted invalid targets, why didn't I learn Toony's role?Toony was immune to non-kill monster actions.
The funny thing about the whole “4mask had our number” is that it was a case of wrong premises leading to the right conclusion. I never even considered that the wolf-team would self-kill to try and throw off the town lol.
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 12:19:42 pm
I never even considered that the wolf-team would self-kill to try and throw off the town lol.Neither did I.
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2022, 12:21:45 pm
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 12:22:49 pm
Web: now that I know NQT's redirect permitted invalid targets, why didn't I learn Toony's role?Because Toony's role was this:
Quote
Role Name: Retired Monster Hunter
{PT} (Auto) Hunter Instincts: You’ve seen worse. Non-Kill Monster Abilities have no effect on you.
Tags: Trigger
{P10} (Night) Track [target]: You hunt the target, Tracking them and Learning any Players they might target.
Tags: Learn, Track
{P7} (1-Shot, Night) Two Days After Retirement [target]: You’re too old for this. You kill the target. If the target is a Monster, their Auto Abilities do nothing. This can only be used on Night 2 or later.
Tags: Kill
Namely, Non-Kill Monster Abilities have no effect on him, including this Role's:
Quote
(Info) Ghoul
{P9} (1-Shot, Night) Consume [dead target]: You consume the target's body, gaining knowledge from the corpse. You Learn the target's full Role and gain an Action the target had.
Tags: Monster, Death, Learn
Yeah one of the things you'll see in the scumchat is me talking about action priority, as it turns out Webadict uses a quite idiosyncratic implementation of Natural Action Resolution which majorly benefits blocks at the expense of everything else.I mark every Ability with how fast or slow it is, and the rule of thumb is that the priorities roughly match up with the NAR, but I don't have to put any Ability at any particular Priority. For the most part, I've kept them similar Priorities, but that doesn't mean they'll always be. The downside is that an Action cannot be affected by Actions that are slower or equal Priority than itself. Either the Redirect or the Roleblock will go off and override or ignore the other, with no means of interaction between the two unless its Action-specified. The upside is that it's much simpler system for me to implement fast turn resolutions, and the question of what works in what order is that anything with a lower Priority doesn't affect an Action. It's mechanically easier to understand, though intuitively less so. Changing it means I spend a lot more time resolving Actions that I already spend hours each game doing.
In short: in most games, you can redirect a blocker if the blocker isn't blocking the redirector, but in Web's games, blocking always happens first regardless.
This way of doing priority makes things simpler for the GM, but it does place all powers more firmly into a rigid hierarchy of usefulness.
So, while that is a valid criticism of the system, it's not something that I would be willing to change at this point.
Post by: Persus13 on October 03, 2022, 12:25:21 pm
To be fair, the plan wasn't to throw off the town with a self-kill, it was to redirect the kill onto Jack. So Max blocking NQT N1 is what killed me.Web: now that I know NQT's redirect permitted invalid targets, why didn't I learn Toony's role?Toony was immune to non-kill monster actions.
The funny thing about the whole “4mask had our number” is that it was a case of wrong premises leading to the right conclusion. I never even considered that the wolf-team would self-kill to try and throw off the town lol.
Post by: 4maskwolf on October 03, 2022, 12:26:13 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 01:17:21 pm
John was a space marine for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to dad "I want to be on the ships daddy."
Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS"
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the UAC he knew there were demons.
"This is Joson" the radio crackered. "You must fight the demons!"
So John gotted his palsma rifle and blew up the wall.
"HE GOING TO KILL US" said the demons
"I will shoot at him" said the cyberdemon and he fired the rocket missiles. John plasmaed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
"No! I must kill the demons" he shouted
The radio said "No, John. You are the demons"
And then John was a zombie.
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 01:39:36 pm
hector13 lied about his Action, but he had a really good out when the plan failed on Night 1, which is that he could've claimed Redirecting/Reflecting/Bussing the Kill. This would help obfuscate the information and no one could counterclaim this information because, well, no one else did it. It ALSO gives reason for why hector13 cannot be Killed at Night, makes him look Good, and I think that gets him to at least 5p. I've always been a proponent of lying about your Action as scum, and letting other people do the heavy lifting on how to solve that. I think his morale was a little low, plus he was feeling sick, so I don't fault him for not doing more. I think it would've required doubling down on a plan that already failed, but... Well, sometimes, taking risks is how you gotta win! I think giving hector13 an extra Action actually solves a lot of problems with his Role, which is that it allows him to steal the Neutral Roles (And 4mask's Extra Roles), AND doesn't punish him for not being able to use all the different Mafiakills.
notquitethere had a bit of a tougher problem, which is that he was perpetually blocked. There's nothing that can be done about that problem on its own, since he got targeted by Max really hard, which totally sucks. I'm not sure how notquitethere can make that one work, but I think a lot of NQT's problems were mostly Role-bound, and some changes to his Role were the only way to fix those. If they're done, I think NQT doesn't get hit hard (since NQT's Action is no longer copied do to not having any Uses left in it.) Those changes probably make him look fairly Good.
Persus13 was setting himself up to be powerwolf, and I think if he lives N1, he HAS to turn on hector13, since it's suspicious that neither of them didn't die. How do you explain that one? But, his Role was super powerful and gives him cover no matter what happens. Losing his Role Night 1 was a huge hit, and dropped their chances to win to like... 10-15% max. When Vector hit Persus13 and hector13, the win rate drops to like 25-30% (from ~40%, which seems high, but it's low for scumteams), but the plan failing is really bad. It means Persus13 and hector13 probably have to stage a huge thunderdome and by doing so, they might both look Good to everyone.
Overall, I'd say that the scumteam got a combination of unlucky, balance issues, and not lying enough. The Town played fairly well, and got really lucky on Ability usage. It's a tough game to learn anything about due to circumstances, but I think the little bit that can be learned here is lie, probably about being a Miller, and no one will do anything to you. Always lie about being a Miller. Heck, lie about being a Miller when you're Town, I'm gonna lie about being a Miller every game. It's a foolproof strategy.
I think the things I can learn from this is that synergies are fun and more of those, plz.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 01:53:30 pm
It's a tough game to learn anything about due to circumstances, but I think the little bit that can be learned here is lie, probably about being a Miller, and no one will do anything to you. Always lie about being a Miller. Heck, lie about being a Miller when you're Town, I'm gonna lie about being a Miller every game. It's a foolproof strategy.I don't know if you spotted it, but I'm starting to pick up the habit of just flatly saying I can't be investigated.
BTW, what NQT should've done to win was "not seem so scummy to me" :P
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 02:07:03 pm
But, yes, I did see you claim you couldn't be investigated.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 02:17:23 pm
I read D1 at least three times in this game so I saw everything, including that.It's a tough game to learn anything about due to circumstances, but I think the little bit that can be learned here is lie, probably about being a Miller, and no one will do anything to you. Always lie about being a Miller. Heck, lie about being a Miller when you're Town, I'm gonna lie about being a Miller every game. It's a foolproof strategy.I don't know if you spotted it, but I'm starting to pick up the habit of just flatly saying I can't be investigated.
I found you more suspicious once everyone had claimed and it didn't seem like there were any cops in the setup, so I can't say it helped my decision making.
Also yeah, Persus completely threw off the fact he was scum with NQT and Hector. I didn't see that at aaaaall.
Post by: Vector on October 03, 2022, 02:59:56 pm
I also apparently haven't played with scum NQT recently. I checked every early post for "COP" being seeded and kind of called it a day because that always worked before, + I was really trying to give both Hector and NQT slack for their Rona/illness situations so I didn't want to pressure them. So I was waiting for evidence to build up naturally for me to sort through. Luckily I eventually found a few things that were, for me, convincing and definitive.
Post by: Lenglon on October 03, 2022, 03:06:11 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2022, 03:20:06 pm
Post by: Persus13 on October 03, 2022, 03:29:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 03:30:40 pm
On a wagon built by my scumbuddy!Tric's townreads were spot-on if you swapped Egan with Hector, that would have made Hector/NQT/Persus.
I wasn't kidding when I said we could use Tric's reads to unironically catch scum.
I was trying to post at the end of D1 to switch to Max, it was just every time I hit post a new reply showed up.To be fair it was super convincing when you stayed on Hector and I decided to vote Tric instead of Hector.
EDIT:
Also I pointed this out in the thread already in my Bonus Content section of D3, but Egan's "save for later" list had all three Evil + Jim.
Post by: Persus13 on October 03, 2022, 03:39:01 pm
And then there was that section D2 where the thread blew up 6 pages in like 2 hours.
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 03:42:23 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 04:02:20 pm
Did they lore about me finding the location of the ritual matter?
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 04:08:32 pm
WebUh, depends on what you mean by matters. If the game went on, I was gonna have you see more of the ongoings of the cult. It was just a flavor-funsies, since you had no action.
Did they lore about me finding the location of the ritual matter?
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 03, 2022, 04:11:52 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2022, 04:15:36 pm
Knightwing should have been a third-party that wants the game to go to Day 10 or something. They would have night abilities to try to stop people from being killed, and during the day they'd try to keep both town and mafia ratio'd so the game wouldn't end too soon.WebUh, depends on what you mean by matters. If the game went on, I was gonna have you see more of the ongoings of the cult. It was just a flavor-funsies, since you had no action.
Did they lore about me finding the location of the ritual matter?
Obviously, the next Supernatural should be themed around me and KW as unlikely buddy-cops breaking into Hell to rescue the imp....Yeah and you two would share a Quicktopic together and be on the hunt for a SK.
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2022, 04:19:53 pm
game to go to Day 10 or something.No thanks, I don't want people to murder me irl.
Post by: Knightwing64 on October 03, 2022, 04:34:10 pm
Obviously, the next Supernatural should be themed around me and KW as unlikely buddy-cops breaking into Hell to rescue the imp.
Web, you should actually make this.
That sounds awesome