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Dwarf Fortress => DF Gameplay Questions => Topic started by: thefinn on September 26, 2022, 09:49:29 pm

Title: Safely delivering minecart contents.
Post by: thefinn on September 26, 2022, 09:49:29 pm
So I am trying out minecarts for delivering both ore and charcoal bars to my smeltery down on level 45.

I'd like to be able to deliver these effectively but safely. I've dug the corridors that the tracks will be laid on, but am wondering how best to deliver things to a spot where the dwarves can simply pick them up and smelt the ore.

What I don't want is for the minecart to have some poor timing in delivering just as a dwarf is picking up another piece of ore and kill the poor Urist.

Any suggestions? I think I can use water for some things - like wood maybe - but not sure about how to do it for ore.

(I also use this for infinite stockpiles for refuse and wood, anything pertaining to those topics would also be of benefit)

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Safely delivering minecart contents.
Post by: Bumber on September 27, 2022, 06:22:02 am
Just use a track stop to dump onto a stockpile next to it. No need for dwarves to unload the cart manually.
Title: Re: Safely delivering minecart contents.
Post by: Starver on September 27, 2022, 06:47:55 am
Though if you still use any form of projectile-delivery at the end (c.f. Minecart Shotgun), it could always be onto a retracting bridge 'floor' above the true collecting space(s) with sufficient lever- or pressureplate-activated/deactivated access to only drop the accumulated goodies when there's nobody in the pick-up space below.

Overengineered, maybe, but depends on how you're wanting/needing to set the rest of the system up, and would be dwarfy.
Title: Re: Safely delivering minecart contents.
Post by: thefinn on September 27, 2022, 10:16:08 am
Quote from: Starver on September 27, 2022, 06:47:55 am
Though if you still use any form of projectile-delivery at the end (c.f. Minecart Shotgun), it could always be onto a retracting bridge 'floor' above the true collecting space(s) with sufficient lever- or pressureplate-activated/deactivated access to only drop the accumulated goodies when there's nobody in the pick-up space below.

Overengineered, maybe, but depends on how you're wanting/needing to set the rest of the system up, and would be dwarfy.

I get what you're laying down. I like it.
Title: Re: Safely delivering minecart contents.
Post by: thefinn on September 27, 2022, 11:16:40 pm
Quote from: Starver on September 27, 2022, 06:47:55 am
Though if you still use any form of projectile-delivery at the end (c.f. Minecart Shotgun), it could always be onto a retracting bridge 'floor' above the true collecting space(s) with sufficient lever- or pressureplate-activated/deactivated access to only drop the accumulated goodies when there's nobody in the pick-up space below.

Overengineered, maybe, but depends on how you're wanting/needing to set the rest of the system up, and would be dwarfy.

Ok, so followup question.

A bridge starts as closed. Which means the pressure plate will OPEN the bridge when a dwarf steps on it. I need the opposite to happen. How do?
Title: Re: Safely delivering minecart contents.
Post by: Starver on September 28, 2022, 06:35:22 am
There are a number of ways, I can think of, but perhaps consider a pump (powered[1]) slurping water from one hole to another. Pressure-plate can be linked to floodgate or bridge (to block the slurp or dump) or the input gear to the pump to control. Pressure plates in either slurp or dump holes (depending upon your choice of go/no-go method) give you the opposite sign of trigger to the one sent to this pump.

If it's the dump-hole side you can perhaps add a second counter-triggered pump to slurp out the dump into a drain whilst just ensuring sufficient water at the slurp-hole side to transfer over when needed. If you make it with the second pump returning the fluid in a largely[2] self-contained cycle then you effectively have a split-repeater. In one activation state the fluid is in one hole, in the other state it is in the other.

I think that the following basic plan would work:
Code: [Select]
######  # : wall/uncut rock
#o>>o#  o: channel/no-floor hole into slurp&dump holes
#o<<o#  >> <<: counter-directional pumps
##### 
...not shown are the fluid-blocking constructions, if used, placed over the holes accordingly.

Though I've never tried the slurp/dump from/to two holes each (I'm just juggling in my mind how I'd block one side with a triggered retracting bridge, etc), so I've used a slightly less less compact four-pump circuit, in the past:
Code: [Select]
######
#o>>o#
#^##v#
#^##v#
#o<<o#
######
...this can be built to hold a state of filled in two opposite corners upon trigger and the other two opposite corners when untriggered, with appropriate fluid-blockers in like diagonal configurations above the holes, or two of the pumps (opposite sides, either way) being mechanically isolated from the otherwise permanent power-source.

At Z-1, in the holes, you can have a maintenance access door for when that hole is empty, to configure the onward-trigger connections after you get it working (whether you knew which orientation was which, in advance) and even a fluid-(re)fill channel/drain on another vector for major initialisation/deinitialisation purposes.
Code: [Select]
##+##+##
##D##D##
~F+##+F~
########
########
~F+##+F~
##D##D##
##+##+##
...obviously get levers to the Floodgates, and it might be advisable to lock/lever the Doors. If you're wanting to squash more of these together you can have the doors/drains on the 'inside' of the corners leading to downward access/draining stairwells in the centre-four block and share water-supplies with adjacent units.



((Only suggesting this method as my occasional favourite, of my own age-old design. It has its problems in implementation, certainly might not be the most efficient fluid NOT-gate (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Fluid_logic#NOT), but it strikes me that you'd prefer something with more challenge...  ;) ))

There's also mechanical logic (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Mechanical_logic), but you'd need a (probably) power-to-signal converter that likely involves fluid. Creature logic  (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_logic) is more of an art, not a science, but can be fun. I haven't really tried using minecarts themselves (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Minecart_logic) (even the passage of your delivery-minecart to pre-empt any danger?) but maybe you'd be more comfortable with that. If you want to feel comfortable..!



[1] And can be anywhere on you map, through spooky-trigger-at-a-distance, so could be wind-powered at the surface if you have wind, or water-powered from such natural or water-reactor flows as you can tap into or create.

[2] Beware of evaporation and spill, if not a 'tight' system.
Title: Re: Safely delivering minecart contents.
Post by: Schmaven on October 02, 2022, 05:00:37 pm
Quote from: thefinn on September 27, 2022, 11:16:40 pm
Ok, so followup question.

A bridge starts as closed. Which means the pressure plate will OPEN the bridge when a dwarf steps on it. I need the opposite to happen. How do?

I've been using the minecart, track ramp and hatch method (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Minecart_logic#MPL_NOT) to invert signals.  It's fairly simple to construct.  One addition that I find especially helpful is to build a retracting bridge just to the right of the hatch cover.  Linking this bridge to a lever lets you bring the minecart to a stop for FPS or other reasons.  I've also found that on the lower level of the construction, you also need walls to the south of the 2 track ramps to keep the minecart from derailing.  I also build a track stop just north of 1 of those track ramps for the purpose of loading a minecart into the system, in addition to an extra lever to operate the hatch manually in case you want to stop the minecart but the hatch is in the wrong state for that.
Spoiler: Z+0 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Z+1 (click to show/hide)
The track ramps themselves use Dwarven mastery of gravitational engineering to propel the minecart around the circuit, requiring no mechanical power whatsoever to operate.