Post by: EuchreJack on November 09, 2022, 05:18:40 pm
He demands the residents to play a deadly game to hunt down Jim Jack & Tric, whom he holds responsible for the death of his beloved father.
But that was 20 years ago, and few remember...
Spoiler: Pre-written opening, close enough (click to show/hide)
Sign ups beginning now. I have to get to my other computer to get the correct writeup, rules, etc. But that should be enough for now.
Spiritual successor to this game: Beginner Mafia: BYOR Edition (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179912.0)
Nine players, as per the original.
Every player is assigned a role randomly by the mod (me). The roles are the Mod's warped interpretation of the originating game's players and how it played out. Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.
Players:
Maximum Spin
Tric
Jim
Knightwing
Webadict
Toonyman
Deus Asmoth
Days will be 72 hours, Nights 24 hours, Hammers are in effect, no shortens, no extensions. Day ends on Hammer, Night can end early if all night actions received before deadline and Mod has time to process them. I have traditionally tried to give notice if the Night will end significantly earlier than expected, so no player gets caught many hours behind the rest of the players.
Night Action Resolution Order:
Copy
Hide
Bus Drive
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect
Goals:
Town will be hunting Jim, Jack, & Tric. Given that there are nine (9) players, one of those dastardly foes will NOT be "officially" on the two-person mafia team. We'll let the question of whether the third person is Mafia-ally or Serial Killer be a Fun Surprise.
Mafia will be trying to equal or exceed the Town in numbers so they can put an end to Knightwing's dark reign. Apparently Town is too scared to attempt to stop Knightwing's descendant unless half of them are mafia. Mafia-ally wins with Mafia, counts towards Mafia's win condition, but are not part of the scum chat.
If there is a Serial Killer, they win by everyone else dying. If everyone dies including them, they win.
In case of tied votes, Mafia determines the kill.
7-Player game will be...less than 9 player. Given there are less than 9 players, you will get...less than advertised.
Link to scumchat: https://discord.gg/vdm6KScC (https://discord.gg/vdm6KScC)
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 09, 2022, 05:44:21 pm
Post by: TricMagic on November 09, 2022, 06:19:42 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on November 09, 2022, 07:38:53 pm
But if the game didn't start for
a while
I wouldn't mind.
Post by: hector13 on November 09, 2022, 08:26:16 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on November 09, 2022, 08:53:10 pm
YESSSS
FINALLY REVENGE
I NEVER FORGET
Post by: Knightwing64 on November 09, 2022, 08:58:53 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on November 09, 2022, 09:23:37 pm
Why are you posting like William Shatner acts?
Because sometimes I want to introduce a pause into what I'm saying for whatever reason.
Post by: Knightwing64 on November 09, 2022, 09:25:45 pm
Why are you posting like William Shatner acts?
Because sometimes I want to introduce a pause into what I'm saying for whatever reason.
Just add a …
Like…
This. I guess.
Post by: Knightwing64 on November 09, 2022, 09:26:06 pm
Avast ye heathen
Post by: webadict on November 09, 2022, 09:32:14 pm
Post by: hector13 on November 09, 2022, 09:34:09 pm
Post by: webadict on November 09, 2022, 09:36:15 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on November 10, 2022, 02:10:44 am
What even are the rules in this game?
1) Sign up for the game
2) ???????
3) PROFIT!
Post by: Knightwing64 on November 10, 2022, 06:48:22 am
Dunno if I’m supposed to submit a role or not
Post by: webadict on November 10, 2022, 08:28:48 am
Are there known roles? Randomly generated rules? Powerful rules?What even are the rules in this game?
1) Sign up for the game
2) ???????
3) PROFIT!
How long are Days and Nights?
What happens in the event of a tied vote?
Also don't do Mafia + Mally, do Mafia + SK.
Post by: TolyK on November 10, 2022, 11:18:52 am
Post by: EuchreJack on November 10, 2022, 12:15:38 pm
Opening post has been updated. One more post until posting affirms consent to participate.
Post by: Knightwing64 on November 10, 2022, 12:50:58 pm
Post by: TolyK on November 10, 2022, 12:55:29 pm
Post by: hector13 on November 10, 2022, 01:51:21 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on November 10, 2022, 02:48:51 pm
If there is a role called Knightwing or Knightwing’s heir, I demand it nowYou have been assigned role: Knightwing's butt hair.
More seriously, ALL roles are randomized. References to players is coincidental and should not be viewed as dispositive.
Post by: Knightwing64 on November 10, 2022, 02:54:16 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on November 11, 2022, 10:28:52 am
Post by: hector13 on November 11, 2022, 11:13:00 am
Post by: webadict on November 11, 2022, 11:15:56 am
Post by: EuchreJack on November 11, 2022, 02:44:23 pm
I’m struggling with sleep and keeping up with baby, so I’m just watching.There should be an unspoiled specchat on the Discord, so you can follow along at your own pace when the game begins.
Eh, I'll in.Excellent
Post by: NJW2000 on November 14, 2022, 06:57:26 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 05, 2022, 10:28:40 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 06, 2022, 12:24:22 am
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 06, 2022, 12:27:00 am
Post by: EuchreJack on December 06, 2022, 10:24:33 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 06, 2022, 11:44:45 am
Any objections
Nay.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 07, 2022, 05:41:24 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 07, 2022, 05:44:02 pm
Post by: hector13 on December 07, 2022, 06:09:03 pm
I think the software just decided it wanted a break.
Post by: EuchreJack on December 07, 2022, 06:31:50 pm
I could play if you don't mind all my posts being this long.
That will work. Maybe we'll get the 9?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 07, 2022, 08:12:32 pm
I tried posting yesterday but the forums were Down For some reason.
Ikr? It wouldn’t for more either. Even today it’s still acting up
Post by: webadict on December 08, 2022, 03:36:15 pm
I could play if you don't mind all my posts being this long.Same
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 17, 2022, 12:22:31 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 17, 2022, 09:26:18 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 21, 2022, 02:19:44 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 21, 2022, 06:14:37 pm
As I am unsure if everyone is aware that this game is nearing start, I'll probably start it sometime tomorrow, unless it becomes clear most players are ready to go tonight.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 21, 2022, 06:45:00 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 21, 2022, 07:11:23 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 21, 2022, 07:17:21 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 21, 2022, 07:27:40 pm
Once upon a time, the Evil Mafia Scum of Jim Jack & Tric killed lots of people, making lots of people very sad.
Now, Knightwing's Heir is going to make them PAY. With Ivory Hockey Mask, Ebony Leather Jacket, Chrome Motorcycle, and Walnut Wood Stock Steel Double Barrel Shotgun, the descendant of Knightwing is demanding Retribution.
Unfortunately, this was 30 years ago, and nobody knows what Jim, Jack or Tric look like. And they assumed fake names. Maybe they're not even around...
Once a day, the town will turn someone over to Knightwing's Heir for JUSTICE.
You have 72 Hours to make your decision. Upon a tie, those dastardly scumbags will undoubtedly trick Knightwing's Heir into Justicing THEIR choice.
Day starts NOW. Day will END at 7:30pm EST Saturday December 24th AKA Christmas Eve. Good Luck!
Post by: EuchreJack on December 21, 2022, 07:30:53 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 21, 2022, 07:33:01 pm
Killing Jack might be a little difficult, but luckily we only have to worry about that second!
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 21, 2022, 07:33:59 pm
Also I still have a lot of Christmas preparations I need to do, so I might be scarce at times.
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 21, 2022, 07:36:23 pm
But we should still definitely kill TricMagic now, just to be sure.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 21, 2022, 07:58:59 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 21, 2022, 08:05:27 pm
This leads me to believe that just voting Jim or Tric on name alone is pretty foolish as any one of us could have the "spirit" of Jim/Jack/Tric in them which is probably who the mafia are. Not necessarily all three, as having three mafia in a seven player game is dumb.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 21, 2022, 08:10:36 pm
On that note I'm gonna say Webadict is mafia. Knightwing should be easy enough to read. Tric is going to try to help mafia regardless of his alignment and I don't know what Deus Asmoth is going to do.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 21, 2022, 08:20:26 pm
I guess it's not necessarily true this game is 2 mafia 5 town, that's an assumption I'm making based on how I feel Jack would edit the game when cutting it down from 9 to 7 by not having mally or SK.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 21, 2022, 08:33:56 pm
Jim seems like the obvious choice. But is it too obvious?
Nah.
Jim
Post by: webadict on December 21, 2022, 08:47:21 pm
I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it's pretty unlikely Max and Jim are mafia together. I don't believe they would post in unison like that while giving different vote targets. Feels very uncoordinated.Alas, it is not me this time. I'll, uh, do a jig or something to prove it's not me or whatever.
On that note I'm gonna say Webadict is mafia. Knightwing should be easy enough to read. Tric is going to try to help mafia regardless of his alignment and I don't know what Deus Asmoth is going to do.
I also wasn't aware this game was starting until I saw the PM, but luckily, I appear to not have missed much.
Since that's out of the way, is it you, ToonyMan? I'd really appreciate it if it wasn't, because then I can be a lot lazier than I'm already being right now. Please.
Post by: webadict on December 21, 2022, 09:07:57 pm
Maximum Spin
TricMagic
Jim Groovester
Knightwing
webadict
Toonyman
Deus Asmoth
Ummm... Idk, it's Max.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 21, 2022, 09:24:02 pm
Sorry, I need a list of people in the game, so I'm putting it here:It's not me. You clearly misspelled "Jim".
Maximum Spin
TricMagic
Jim Groovester
Knightwing
webadict
Toonyman
Deus Asmoth
Ummm... Idk, it's Max.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 21, 2022, 09:25:54 pm
or is it?.…
Post by: ToonyMan on December 21, 2022, 09:39:39 pm
If you mean mafia then no it's not me.I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it's pretty unlikely Max and Jim are mafia together. I don't believe they would post in unison like that while giving different vote targets. Feels very uncoordinated.Alas, it is not me this time. I'll, uh, do a jig or something to prove it's not me or whatever.
On that note I'm gonna say Webadict is mafia. Knightwing should be easy enough to read. Tric is going to try to help mafia regardless of his alignment and I don't know what Deus Asmoth is going to do.
I also wasn't aware this game was starting until I saw the PM, but luckily, I appear to not have missed much.
Since that's out of the way, is it you, ToonyMan? I'd really appreciate it if it wasn't, because then I can be a lot lazier than I'm already being right now. Please.
I'm debating how serious I want to take this game since I'm going to be pretty all over the place on Friday and Saturday. But then I remembered that I only take dumb trivial things seriously like a game of forum mafia and will probably post like my life depends on it and then get mad when Jack steals a win...wait that can't happen this time.
Hm.Well by your logic I'm going to say Jim is town because he's been town in all the games I can think of recently that I was a part of, how's that??
Jim seems like the obvious choice. But is it too obvious?
Nah.
Jim
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 21, 2022, 09:48:16 pm
and then get mad when Jack steals a win...wait that can't happen this time.Jack the role could.
Post by: webadict on December 21, 2022, 09:50:51 pm
I'm debating how serious I want to take this game since I'm going to be pretty all over the place on Friday and Saturday. But then I remembered that I only take dumb trivial things seriously like a game of forum mafia and will probably post like my life depends on it and then get mad when Jack steals a win...wait that can't happen this time.Hey, that's not fair. Sometimes, Tric and Knightwing steal your wins, too!
Ah man, you don't need to defend Jim, he's gonna be fine by himself.Hm.Well by your logic I'm going to say Jim is town because he's been town in all the games I can think of recently that I was a part of, how's that??
Jim seems like the obvious choice. But is it too obvious?
Nah.
Jim
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 21, 2022, 11:28:44 pm
Hm.
Jim seems like the obvious choice. But is it too obvious?
Nah.
Jim
You know just because the game says to kill me now doesn't mean that you have to.
But we should still definitely kill TricMagic now, just to be sure.
I guess it's not necessarily true this game is 2 mafia 5 town, that's an assumption I'm making based on how I feel Jack would edit the game when cutting it down from 9 to 7 by not having mally or SK.
It would be really bastardly to have two mafia + mafia ally in a seven player game because it would be Day 1 lylo.
It would also be kind of bastardly to have an SK in a seven player game.
I rule nothing out.
Nobody who has posted so far is making me terribly suspicious of them so I guess I'm going to be lazy and wait for Deus Asmoth and TricMagic to post before I start making judgments in earnest.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 22, 2022, 01:18:46 am
The instructions clearly say "Kill Jim Jack Tric Now". I say we go in order.
Killing Jack might be a little difficult, but luckily we only have to worry about that second!
TricMagic because the game says to kill him, now.
Also I still have a lot of Christmas preparations I need to do, so I might be scarce at times.
Hm.
Jim seems like the obvious choice. But is it too obvious?
Nah.
Jim
Maximum Spin, Jim, Knightwing: I just want to confirm that we're all aware that players have been given roles based on players from another game and lynching people based on their usernames probably isn't the most productive use of our time.
Maximum Spin: Did you have a plan for what to do about Jack, out of curiosity?
Toonyman: Why is Knightwing an easy read and why keep Tric alive if you think he's an asset to the mafia regardless of his alignment?
webadict: What type of jig are we talking about here? Because some are more trustworthy than others.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 22, 2022, 02:02:45 am
Maximum Spin, Jim, Knightwing: I just want to confirm that we're all aware that players have been given roles based on players from another game and lynching people based on their usernames probably isn't the most productive use of our time.Yeah, but it's Jim.
I mean, I have to start somewhere.
Quote
Maximum Spin: Did you have a plan for what to do about Jack, out of curiosity?Lynch whoever has his role, I guess.
I mean, no, I don't. My role power doesn't really seem to be based on the player's actual role from that game so I don't even know what role-Jack would do. I was mostly just making fun of ToonyMan. I like to do that. Maybe that's what the role power based on me does.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 08:03:59 am
Jim will feel my wrath.
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 08:58:57 am
webadict: What type of jig are we talking about here? Because some are more trustworthy than others.It will likely be a half-hearted combination of the Charleston, the robot, and then me falling to the floor to do half of a worm before I have enraged all observers and require protective services.
Anyway, Deus, who do you wanna vote off? Whatcha got?
Post by: TricMagic on December 22, 2022, 09:14:28 am
Post by: ToonyMan on December 22, 2022, 09:26:18 am
I feel fairly confident in reading Knightwing. I think I've only been wrong once over numerous times.
I think he's town so far.
I also think Max has done all their town tells, but I'm not sure if they're purposely aware of that.
Tric seems suspicious. I feel like he would claim more about his role than simply being the spirit of Knightwing. I think claiming your spirit is more revealing than someone like Tric would realize.
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 10:05:35 am
@Deus:I agree on Max, if only superficially.
I feel fairly confident in reading Knightwing. I think I've only been wrong once over numerous times.
I think he's town so far.
I also think Max has done all their town tells, but I'm not sure if they're purposely aware of that.
Tric seems suspicious. I feel like he would claim more about his role than simply being the spirit of Knightwing. I think claiming your spirit is more revealing than someone like Tric would realize.
I also agree on TricMagic, if only also superficially.
Post by: TricMagic on December 22, 2022, 10:12:10 am
... That's about it. I could be an SK again, right? You can't call me mafia without also finding my partner though. So it's a moot point for now.
I am in reality a killer, but that's not scum-indicative.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 10:19:59 am
Tric, you fell into my trap!
You fool, if you have my spirit, you must be mafia!
Because I’m a asshole!
Tricmagic
Post by: ToonyMan on December 22, 2022, 10:31:50 am
To be fair.This is horrifying because I believe you.
... That's about it. I could be an SK again, right? You can't call me mafia without also finding my partner though. So it's a moot point for now.
I am in reality a killer, but that's not scum-indicative.
In that other game Knightwing was town and also had a oneshot kill.
I can confirm I also have one of the abilities of the player I'm the spirit of.
Do I think you're mafia and using this vig claim as cover? Maybe, honestly not really. However, my instincts tell me that letting a town vig Tric survive into the night is a guaranteed town loss.
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 10:33:30 am
Post by: TricMagic on December 22, 2022, 10:38:52 am
I mean, you're not wrong. Kinda makes me want to burn you at the stake.To be fair.This is horrifying because I believe you.
... That's about it. I could be an SK again, right? You can't call me mafia without also finding my partner though. So it's a moot point for now.
I am in reality a killer, but that's not scum-indicative.
In that other game Knightwing was town and also had a oneshot kill.
I can confirm I also have one of the abilities of the player I'm the spirit of.
Do I think you're mafia and using this vig claim as cover? Maybe, honestly not really. However, my instincts tell me that letting a town vig Tric survive into the night is a guaranteed town loss.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 22, 2022, 12:11:25 pm
Anyway, Deus, who do you wanna vote off? Whatcha got?
Toonyman, at the moment. From what I can tell he tried to bait TricMagic into revealing more about his role and has said he believes Tric is town but is also too dangerous to leave alive (hasn't voted though).
Toonyman: Can you square that for me? Is Tric worrisome enough to deserve a policy lynch in your eyes and do you actually want to lynch him?
Knightwing:
Hah!Can you clarify your vote here? You do seem to have been Town in the previous game.
Tric, you fell into my trap!
You fool, if you have my spirit, you must be mafia!
Because I’m a asshole!
Tricmagic
TricMagic: Do you have a plan of some kind or can we expect insanity for the entire game?
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 22, 2022, 12:20:58 pm
Post by: TricMagic on December 22, 2022, 12:56:40 pm
Jack, should you be lynched? Also, what happens if mafia equals town but town/SK can still "win"?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 22, 2022, 01:18:56 pm
I think Tric is probably town and not a good vote. I just don't find this realization very inspiring.
I had people call me out for "rolefishing" with Tric in FBYOR5 and I was just as town there.
@Max:
I'm not comfortable with these ToonyMan-webadict interactions. Too much agreement between them makes me nervous. I don't think they're a team, though. (I tend to assume they don't make it so obvious when they're both mafia, although... I guess they would know that I assume that by now.)Is one of us mafia then? If so, which is more likely?
@Tric:
The main issue here is that we'd lose by day 2 if I kill someone and they aren't mafia. We'd be down to 2/2 in an instant. Assuming Jack's actually balanced things, we're fine. Particularly if there is an SK.That's true so I'm very curious how tonight will go.
Jack, should you be lynched? Also, what happens if mafia equals town but town/SK can still "win"?
Voting Jack is dumb.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 22, 2022, 01:35:10 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 22, 2022, 01:36:03 pm
@Max:It's d1, man, I may be trying to be more open but you're not gonna pin me to something like that already. I just think it's suspicious.I'm not comfortable with these ToonyMan-webadict interactions. Too much agreement between them makes me nervous. I don't think they're a team, though. (I tend to assume they don't make it so obvious when they're both mafia, although... I guess they would know that I assume that by now.)Is one of us mafia then?
Quote
If so, which is more likely?But I will say that Web buddied you like this (in my opinion) back in choose-your-own-fallacy 5 where he was scum, and seemed to try to use that to throw you off Jack.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 22, 2022, 01:44:46 pm
I mean you could just promise not to shoot but I think you know and I know that ToonyMan knows that we know he's not gonna take your word for it.
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 01:58:42 pm
I mean, I won't, but I'll say that I will. Or maybe I will? Who can even tell? I can't. I'm probably not even a roleblocker probably.
Toony: Your instincts say that letting a vig Tric survive is a guaranteed town loss. You believe Tric's claim of having a vig role. You (presumably) don't want to town to lose. You are ok with Tric surviving anyway. What am I missing here?Vig Tric will shoot every single Town player before he shoots the Mafia. That isn't an unprecedented take, but it is a fact of life that we must live with. I, for one, have accepted my fate to be shot by our Trician Overlord. My jig is now one of sacrifice, and I will become a ghost of Christmas Past.
It would be fitting, based on my player.
True. Although, it was less about throwing him off Jack as it was about escaping the torture chamber that was unkillability everywhere.@Max:It's d1, man, I may be trying to be more open but you're not gonna pin me to something like that already. I just think it's suspicious.I'm not comfortable with these ToonyMan-webadict interactions. Too much agreement between them makes me nervous. I don't think they're a team, though. (I tend to assume they don't make it so obvious when they're both mafia, although... I guess they would know that I assume that by now.)Is one of us mafia then?QuoteIf so, which is more likely?But I will say that Web buddied you like this (in my opinion) back in choose-your-own-fallacy 5 where he was scum, and seemed to try to use that to throw you off Jack.
@ToonyMan: Max is gonna be upset if I buddy you, but it's like a 1 in 3 chance you're not Town, so... I'll probably do it anyway. What do I got to lose besides the game?
@Tric: If I buddy you, too, you promise to not shoot me? I don't wanna be shot!
Post by: ToonyMan on December 22, 2022, 02:01:41 pm
Toony: Your instincts say that letting a vig Tric survive is a guaranteed town loss. You believe Tric's claim of having a vig role. You (presumably) don't want to town to lose. You are ok with Tric surviving anyway. What am I missing here?I'm positive Tric would throw as town and lose us the game. Regardless, I'm not going to vote someone I think is more likely town than others. Plus to add to what Max said, things can happen at night.
PPE:
@Web:
You already know Tric is going to shoot me.
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 22, 2022, 03:11:45 pm
Maximum Spin, Jim, Knightwing: I just want to confirm that we're all aware that players have been given roles based on players from another game and lynching people based on their usernames probably isn't the most productive use of our time.
Okay, killjoy.
Toonyman: Why is Knightwing an easy read and why keep Tric alive if you think he's an asset to the mafia regardless of his alignment?
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh asked like we have lynches to spare.
Revenge is a hell of a drug though. It consumes reason and leaves only emotion.
Jim will feel my wrath.
Beginner BYOR 1 was months ago.
Give it a rest.
For the record, I am knightwing. Pay no attention to my scales and vote the 64th imposter Knightwing64. they even have 64 in their name, sus.
To be fair.
... That's about it. I could be an SK again, right? You can't call me mafia without also finding my partner though. So it's a moot point for now.
I am in reality a killer, but that's not scum-indicative.
This feels weird. Maybe instead of shitposting about lynching TricMagic I'll decide I actually want to lynch TricMagic.
Jack, should you be lynched? Also, what happens if mafia equals town but town/SK can still "win"?
The game isn't advertised as a bastard mafia and nothing in the rules says it is. I don't think trying to lynch the moderator is going to do anything.
Assuming Jack's actually balanced things
:|
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 03:21:38 pm
... Yeah, okay, if you're Town, you're absolutely right.Toony: Your instincts say that letting a vig Tric survive is a guaranteed town loss. You believe Tric's claim of having a vig role. You (presumably) don't want to town to lose. You are ok with Tric surviving anyway. What am I missing here?I'm positive Tric would throw as town and lose us the game. Regardless, I'm not going to vote someone I think is more likely town than others. Plus to add to what Max said, things can happen at night.
PPE:
@Web:
You already know Tric is going to shoot me.
Although, I'm in the "Vote TricMagic even if he is Town" this game. My hasty rationale is that karma only applies to everyone except me.
@Jim/TricMagic/Deus: Who should I vote between Max, ToonyMan, and Knightwing? At least one of them is scum, and at most one of you guys are (and it's probably not Tric)
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 22, 2022, 04:14:37 pm
Webadict: from that trio I would be more inclined to vote Knight currently until I get more of a response from them. I can buy Toony being town and Spin trying to work around our apparent loose cannon means is at least useful to the town. Can you explain the logic behind your trios?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 04:35:02 pm
It’s D1. This is the time for trolling and fun before everyone reverts to tryhard mode.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 22, 2022, 04:52:29 pm
Knightwing:Hah!Can you clarify your vote here? You do seem to have been Town in the previous game.
Tric, you fell into my trap!
You fool, if you have my spirit, you must be mafia!
Because I’m a asshole!
Tricmagic
I'm assuming that it's covered by the trolling and fun bit though. Do you have any thoughts about the game so far though?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 22, 2022, 05:05:13 pm
Webadict: from that trio I would be more inclined to vote Knight currently until I get more of a response from them.I agree. I'm not really sure on a reevaluation and want to see more.
Response for what?
It’s D1. This is the time for trolling and fun before everyone reverts to tryhard mode.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 22, 2022, 05:40:02 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 22, 2022, 05:52:12 pm
The main issue here is that we'd lose by day 2 if I kill someone and they aren't mafia. We'd be down to 2/2 in an instant. Assuming Jack's actually balanced things, we're fine. Particularly if there is an SK.
Jack, should you be lynched? Also, what happens if mafia equals town but town/SK can still "win"?
This vote will NOT be counted, because I'm the Mod. :P
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 22, 2022, 05:54:46 pm
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 06:09:29 pm
UnvoteUmmm...
Webadict: from that trio I would be more inclined to vote Knight currently until I get more of a response from them. I can buy Toony being town and Spin trying to work around our apparent loose cannon means is at least useful to the town. Can you explain the logic behind your trios?
I proooobably could.
In that group, it's either Jim or you if there's scum, but I'm not willing to say it's you yet. I tend to think it's Jim no matter what, so there's that, but Jim kinda has his blase face on, so I'm not sure it's him either.
So, from there, there's 3 people left: ToonyMan, Maximum Spin, and Knightwing. Of those, I have ToonyMan the most likely to be Town because it's easier for me in terms of how hard I have to try, but Max + Knightwing also sounds hilarious as a team concept.
And that's it!
The reason why I think it's Maximum Spin is that I feel like he moves more carefully on the ToonyMan + web interactions. I think he's always willing to vote out one of us to prove the other is scum in his eyes, but he also does this weird dance on telling everyone in coded language about everything which he tends to avoid doing as scum. How serious is that accusation? Not very. Just me going off of my brain.
As for Knightwing... Well, it's ALWAYS Knightwing when he says a certain phrase. I actually started writing a bot that categorizes and identifies structural patterns in scum and Town are you actually fucking reading this horseshit I'm making up I just think it's Knightwing, lol. Also, I think Knightwing is the most likely person to be Max's partner.
Post by: TricMagic on December 22, 2022, 06:35:01 pm
I'm gonna go with Max. Call it a group feeling.... Yeah, okay, if you're Town, you're absolutely right.Toony: Your instincts say that letting a vig Tric survive is a guaranteed town loss. You believe Tric's claim of having a vig role. You (presumably) don't want to town to lose. You are ok with Tric surviving anyway. What am I missing here?I'm positive Tric would throw as town and lose us the game. Regardless, I'm not going to vote someone I think is more likely town than others. Plus to add to what Max said, things can happen at night.
PPE:
@Web:
You already know Tric is going to shoot me.
Although, I'm in the "Vote TricMagic even if he is Town" this game. My hasty rationale is that karma only applies to everyone except me.
@Jim/TricMagic/Deus: Who should I vote between Max, ToonyMan, and Knightwing? At least one of them is scum, and at most one of you guys are (and it's probably not Tric)
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 22, 2022, 07:02:20 pm
The reason why I think it's Maximum Spin is that I feel like he moves more carefully on the ToonyMan + web interactions. I think he's always willing to vote out one of us to prove the other is scum in his eyes, but he also does this weird dance on telling everyone in coded language about everything which he tends to avoid doing as scum.I'm trying to stop doing that. :(
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 07:20:49 pm
But how can I believe you, Max?!?The reason why I think it's Maximum Spin is that I feel like he moves more carefully on the ToonyMan + web interactions. I think he's always willing to vote out one of us to prove the other is scum in his eyes, but he also does this weird dance on telling everyone in coded language about everything which he tends to avoid doing as scum.I'm trying to stop doing that. :(
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 07:41:42 pm
I wouldn’t vote me out, I’m a very good asset to town. I won’t say why, obviously, but I can help out a lot.
Also l, this is my game, vote me out and I’ll curse you.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 22, 2022, 07:47:25 pm
But how can I believe you, Max?!?I don't know if you can. Is there something I could do that would prove, in your opinion, that I'm town?
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 22, 2022, 07:48:46 pm
Mannnnn, I always get voted out so fast whenever I feel like trolling. Why can’t I have funnnnnnnnnKnightwing, you're not supposed to troll people, you're supposed to play mafia.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 08:19:33 pm
Mannnnn, I always get voted out so fast whenever I feel like trolling. Why can’t I have funnnnnnnnnKnightwing, you're not supposed to troll people, you're supposed to play mafia.
Why can’t I do both? I have nothing to go on. It’s D1, all we have is wild guesses at this point.
Post by: EuchreJack on December 22, 2022, 08:21:48 pm
(note, I alone can edit their posts)
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 08:23:46 pm
That's... What? You have whatever you want to go on.Mannnnn, I always get voted out so fast whenever I feel like trolling. Why can’t I have funnnnnnnnnKnightwing, you're not supposed to troll people, you're supposed to play mafia.
Why can’t I do both? I have nothing to go on. It’s D1, all we have is wild guesses at this point.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 08:26:22 pm
That's... What? You have whatever you want to go on.Mannnnn, I always get voted out so fast whenever I feel like trolling. Why can’t I have funnnnnnnnnKnightwing, you're not supposed to troll people, you're supposed to play mafia.
Why can’t I do both? I have nothing to go on. It’s D1, all we have is wild guesses at this point.
What?
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 08:45:52 pm
AlL wE hAvE iS WiLd GueSsEs!1!1!That's... What? You have whatever you want to go on.Mannnnn, I always get voted out so fast whenever I feel like trolling. Why can’t I have funnnnnnnnnKnightwing, you're not supposed to troll people, you're supposed to play mafia.
Why can’t I do both? I have nothing to go on. It’s D1, all we have is wild guesses at this point.
What?
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 08:46:23 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 09:04:39 pm
Hey Knightwing, am I Town or what?
Probably? I remember someone saying the more of a asshole you are, the more likely you’re town.
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 09:31:05 pm
Okay, next question:Hey Knightwing, am I Town or what?
Probably? I remember someone saying the more of a asshole you are, the more likely you’re town.
Is ToonyMan Town or not?
And then, after that, is Jim Town or not?
Have, after that, is TricMagic Town or not?
Oh, man, how about... is... Deus Town or not?
Or Max! You haven't really commented on Max that much, have you? Is Max Town or not?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 09:52:08 pm
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 09:56:57 pm
Are you mocking me?Only about 5% mocking, really.
The point of my mocking, though, is that we have as much to go on as we want to believe we do. If you think someone is Town, then you have something to go on. If you think someone is scum, you have something to go on. If you don't think anyone is Town or scum, then you have nothing to go on.
But, someone's gotta die Today or no one dies. And if someone has to die, who's it gotta be?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 09:58:31 pm
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 10:04:16 pm
I just don’t like voting people out on D1.Why not?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 22, 2022, 10:05:59 pm
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 10:09:08 pm
It seems rushed, I dunno. It rubs me the wrong way.Do you not understand that this thinking conflicts with your earlier statement of not having anything to go on? Or do you think that this matches those sentiments?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 22, 2022, 10:16:43 pm
Did Webadict roll mally again?
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 10:18:38 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 22, 2022, 10:40:38 pm
Tric - claims vig for no reason, sounds like town!Tric to me
Knightwing - I think it's town KW, I don't think their actions so far come from a malicious angle
The Nebulous Void
Max - they read town to me, they're acting how I'd expect their townself to act (selfish, random observations) they also did that thing where they hinted at who their spirit is here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8437817#msg8437817) but I don't think that's actually alignment indicative
Jim - don't really like them going after Tric but I guess they could do that as town
I don't know
Webadict - they are town's greatest asset or danger, they feel kind of helpful but it's D1
Deus Asmoth - looks like they're scumhunting I don't have any strong reasoning for anything
Why do you think I'm Mally?I can't tell how sincere you're being, like here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438096#msg8438096) (emphasis on the KW part at the end). Is this town!Webadict trying to help? Or scum!Webadict mashing keyboard buttons? I don't feel very confident currently.
In addition, suspecting Max and KW being a pair is interesting since you're also aboard voting off Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438013#msg8438013) even though you said he was cleared earlier. I think these mixed messages are what bothers me the most. Maybe you're just saying that because you don't want Tric to shoot you? Looking at it again, you begged Tric not to shoot you here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8437972#msg8437972).
I probably need to think about Max/Jim/Deus more.
Post by: webadict on December 22, 2022, 10:59:43 pm
Hmmm, maybe I'll need to do that less, but basically, I'm tired right now, so I'm just being straightforward and asking questions. The only silliness was mocking Knightwing a bit, but I just want him to take a stance.
It's not so much that I suspect Knightwing (though, it would be a lie to say that I don't). It's that the attitude he is taking could easily be construed as scummy for various reasons. By not wanting to pick someone to vote out, he's avoiding being in the spotlight or avoiding controversy. It's just so... unwilling to look like the bad guy.
I'm not willing to remove him from suspicion yet because I just want him to pick people to die so I can understand what he's looking for in scummy people. So, if he doesn't pick, then what right does he have to hold someone culpable for their bad picks? Is a bad scumpick worse than no scumpick? A difficult proposition.
Also, I don't think being aboard the Vote Tric train is scummy, but that's me. It's only a mixed message if it was literally anyone else but TricMagic, but TricMagic has... historical baggage...
Maybe you're asking about if I'm really going in on the Max + Knightwing team angle, and I'm not. I think it's interesting to muse about, but I'm not committed to it. I don't think it's worth going for team construction in this game because it's too unknown whether we have multiple scum or scum and ally or even just one scum. Really, I was pushing that because I wanted Max and Knightwing to comment on each other a bit, since they tend to have a fixation on the other.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 23, 2022, 12:03:40 am
It seems rushed, I dunno. It rubs me the wrong way.
This is actually worth considering. If we're assuming that Tric uses their kill tonight and misses, lynching today puts us at four players left after the scumkill which is a loss if there are two scum players. The best strategy may in fact be no-lynching today and Tric not killing anyone tonight, since that leaves us with six players and the option for Tric to shoot someone in the case of a mislynch (assuming that they don't get killed).
That said,
Knight, how do you plan on finding scum during D2, assuming that nothing crazy happens in the meantime?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 01:39:51 am
Worst case he shoots anyway and misses leaving us probably at a 5 player lylo instead of straight up losing.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 23, 2022, 05:07:03 am
Really, I was pushing that because I wanted Max and Knightwing to comment on each other a bit, since they tend to have a fixation on the other.Oh. Why didn't you say so? I don't usually comment on people just because someone arbitrarily associated me with someone else.
I think this is town Knightwing being needlessly sketchy instead of mafia Knightwing trying to avoid having to play, but I'm not convinced of that.
The best strategy may in fact be no-lynching today and Tric not killing anyone tonight, since that leaves us with six players and the option for Tric to shoot someone in the case of a mislynch (assuming that they don't get killed).I'm firmly open to this plan.
I have one last thing I want to say before day end but I don't want to say it YET. Don't let me forget though, it's important.
Post by: EuchreJack on December 23, 2022, 06:06:10 am
(1) Maximum Spin: Web
(2) Tric: Jim, Knight
(0) Jim: Max
(0) Knightwing:
(1) Webadict: Toony
(0) Toonyman:
(0) Deus Asmoth:
(0) No Lynch:
4 to Hammer
Not voting: Tric, Deus
Day will END at 7:30pm EST Saturday December 24th AKA Christmas Eve. That is 37 hours 24 minutes from NOW.
Also, you all live in Baltimore. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rsEs4HWXeY)
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 07:39:17 am
ToonyMan
I like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.I disagree with this plan on several levels, but also for role related reasons.
Worst case he shoots anyway and misses leaving us probably at a 5 player lylo instead of straight up losing.
If you want to control how Tric shoots, just use a vote, what the fuck, Toony?
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 09:27:28 am
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2022, 09:29:57 am
As for me, think Knightwing is either SK or Mally. (Or Mafia if there is only one of them this game.)
From my morning analysis of gut feelings. I surprisingly don't have any town reads other than knightwing, what the hell?
So can only ask questions. Why are you voting me Jim? Web, you see votecount and push Toony for early hammer? Dues where's your vote?
Ninjaweb.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 09:30:54 am
I think this is town Knightwing being needlessly sketchy instead of mafia Knightwing trying to avoid having to play, but I'm not convinced of that.This is how I feel so maybe we're on the same page.
Max with no vote?Look, Tric is a scary mofo with a gun, but I'm not voting a player I think is town. You said earlier you were totally going to roleblock Tric so I see even less of a reason why you would disagree.
ToonyManI like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.I disagree with this plan on several levels, but also for role related reasons.
Worst case he shoots anyway and misses leaving us probably at a 5 player lylo instead of straight up losing.
If you want to control how Tric shoots, just use a vote, what the fuck, Toony?
Are me and Max both wrong about Knightwing? I think it's possible, but unlikely.
PPE:
Actually, I have reason to believe that there is a Mafia AND an SK, but I won't share why.Wouldn't that make the odds of Tric also being a town vig absurd? Why the lack of concern over Tric when he initially claimed?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 09:33:36 am
As for me, think Knightwing is either SK or Mally. (Or Mafia if there is only one of them this game.)"I think Knightwing is third-party."
From my morning analysis of gut feelings. I surprisingly don't have any town reads other than knightwing, what the hell?
"My only townread is Knightwing."
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 23, 2022, 09:44:31 am
I think he just meant "any reads other than knightwing" and made a mistake.As for me, think Knightwing is either SK or Mally. (Or Mafia if there is only one of them this game.)"I think Knightwing is third-party."
From my morning analysis of gut feelings. I surprisingly don't have any town reads other than knightwing, what the hell?
"My only townread is Knightwing."
Mafia AND Serial Killer, with 7p? Okay, EuchreJack is maybe not a genius of balance so I can buy it, but ToonyMan is right, I don't see Mafia && SK && vig with 7p unless there's something that also prevents this from bringing the game down to three players at d2 open. So who's lying here, web?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 23, 2022, 10:18:14 am
Mannnnnn whatever
Tric isn’t acting obviously scummy, this is strange.
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 10:32:40 am
Why do you assume that I thought there were an SK and a Mafia when Tric claimed?I think this is town Knightwing being needlessly sketchy instead of mafia Knightwing trying to avoid having to play, but I'm not convinced of that.This is how I feel so maybe we're on the same page.Max with no vote?Look, Tric is a scary mofo with a gun, but I'm not voting a player I think is town. You said earlier you were totally going to roleblock Tric so I see even less of a reason why you would disagree.
ToonyManI like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.I disagree with this plan on several levels, but also for role related reasons.
Worst case he shoots anyway and misses leaving us probably at a 5 player lylo instead of straight up losing.
If you want to control how Tric shoots, just use a vote, what the fuck, Toony?
Are me and Max both wrong about Knightwing? I think it's possible, but unlikely.
PPE:Actually, I have reason to believe that there is a Mafia AND an SK, but I won't share why.Wouldn't that make the odds of Tric also being a town vig absurd? Why the lack of concern over Tric when he initially claimed?
But, no. It's also not unreasonable to believe that there is an SK, Mafia, AND a Vigilante in this setup nor is it unreasonable to believe that I am wrong about the SK nor is it wrong to assume that TricMagic may still be an SK instead of a Vigilante. That is not entirely out of scope, given that I am a One-Shot Double Doctor. I am allowed to protect two people during the Night. Why claim? Eh! What is the Mafia or SK gonna do to me? Murder me? LOL, ya got me, boyos! Maybe I'm lying, what then?
The point is that I think this game has more kills than 1, so I have no reason to believe that TricMagic is lying about being a killing role. Maybe he really is just Vigilante and I exist purely to stop him from murdering accidentally. But, I'd much rather we voted someone out instead of No Elimination because it makes me more comfortable.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 10:53:38 am
I really don't believe we have 3 kills in a 7 player game.
Right now I think we have the mafiakill and then whatever Tric's kill is. I think it's reasonable to say we likely have more than 1 kill in this game, because Tric would have to be lying in some mafia gambit for there to be only 1. Plus, if we believe your double protect claim the role makes more sense if there's two kills.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 10:55:05 am
I should probably look at the past game again.
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 11:11:59 am
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 23, 2022, 01:40:55 pm
No lynch
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 01:50:19 pm
Webadict : why are you more comfortable with lynching (presumably Toony?) than not? You mentioned that you think you think you're going to get killed, but I don't see how that makes a practical difference at six players rather than seven.Because voting is the most important way to gather information in this game. The Town do not normally win in the Night like the Mafia do. The Mafia knows who's Mafia and who's not. Player slip information subconsciously through their words, and defending your vote creates more words to develop an idea of their mindset.
No lynch
Honestly, take your pick of any of those reasons.
No Elimination is not a great idea here because we have literally zero idea of what we're playing against. What do you expect to learn from No Elimination?
If anything, think of this as, instead, your chance to convince me that No One is Mafia, and thus why I cannot accept that as a conclusion inherently.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 23, 2022, 02:02:47 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 23, 2022, 02:04:22 pm
Max with no vote?
Mod error, sorry. Max's vote counts, I just bungled adding it. Will hopefully avoid that error in the next vote count.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 23, 2022, 04:24:43 pm
I want to hear some more from Jim before I move my vote off him. Is Jim even still in this game?
(I have to admit he does this as town a lot, though. Probably NAI.)
God in the form of a moth is giving me bad vibes here, but I don't really have any experience playing with him. Can anyone give me any tips? Webadict, maybe?
TricMagic is town. HIS ROLE, HIS ROOOOOOLE. I honestly think he can be counted on not to shoot anyone in case of a mislynch, though. He's not that much of a loose cannon. Probably. I feel like I worry about a doctor Tric more than a vig Tric anyway.
Still stand by what I said about Knightwing, sorta.
Web and Toony continue to be the same as before. I think the fact that I can't confidently identify scum elsewhere makes it even more likely that one of them is, too. Or even both of them, I'm not married to what I said before, but I still don't think that yet. I'm more inclined to suspect [Godmoth or Jim] and [Web or Toony].
Okay, reading a little more, I feel less good about Tric, but I'm still not voting him today. I kind of DO believe he would claim vig as scum, in principle, though. Last paragraph still stands.
Web vs. modgoth on no-lynching feels a little odd, but also, would be kind of a really weird and pointless interaction for scum? I guess I'll tentatively say it's probably not them.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 23, 2022, 04:40:57 pm
Yes? Okay.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 23, 2022, 04:42:15 pm
am I the only one who finds it weird Tric isn’t acting chaotic stupid?No. After I saw where you said that, I went back and looked more and that's why I wrote that I wasn't as confident about him anymore. I do think you have a point.
Yes? Okay.
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2022, 05:31:25 pm
I am Dragon, your argument is invalid.am I the only one who finds it weird Tric isn’t acting chaotic stupid?No. After I saw where you said that, I went back and looked more and that's why I wrote that I wasn't as confident about him anymore. I do think you have a point.
Yes? Okay.
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 05:45:21 pm
I've laid out my thinking before. I don't necessarily expect to learn anything from not lynching, but from a practical standpoint the effect of mislynching today seems to be outright losing the game. If Tric could commit to not killing someone in the case of a mislynch then I'd be happier with lynching someone, but given that we have to accommodate the lunatic with a gun I think doing our best to avoid losing the game on N1 is ideal.I'd rather play to win than play to not lose. If you're worried about TricMagic, vote him. I'm still down to vote out TricMagic in this situation.
All right, let's see.As much as I'd be satisfied with a Toony/Jim team here, I don't think that's right. It feels too easy. And I don't think Deus is scum. I'm still unwilling to remove Knightwing from suspicion here.
I want to hear some more from Jim before I move my vote off him. Is Jim even still in this game?
(I have to admit he does this as town a lot, though. Probably NAI.)
God in the form of a moth is giving me bad vibes here, but I don't really have any experience playing with him. Can anyone give me any tips? Webadict, maybe?
TricMagic is town. HIS ROLE, HIS ROOOOOOLE. I honestly think he can be counted on not to shoot anyone in case of a mislynch, though. He's not that much of a loose cannon. Probably. I feel like I worry about a doctor Tric more than a vig Tric anyway.
Still stand by what I said about Knightwing, sorta.
Web and Toony continue to be the same as before. I think the fact that I can't confidently identify scum elsewhere makes it even more likely that one of them is, too. Or even both of them, I'm not married to what I said before, but I still don't think that yet. I'm more inclined to suspect [Godmoth or Jim] and [Web or Toony].
Okay, reading a little more, I feel less good about Tric, but I'm still not voting him today. I kind of DO believe he would claim vig as scum, in principle, though. Last paragraph still stands.
Web vs. modgoth on no-lynching feels a little odd, but also, would be kind of a really weird and pointless interaction for scum? I guess I'll tentatively say it's probably not them.
If you're set on TricMagic, I'm not against voting him out, but I'm... not sure it's him either, though less sure than Deus. I'm also going to remove you from suspicion for now. I don't think you're scum here.
Overall, then, my feeling is
TricMagic isn't Mafia (SK? Solo Mafia???)
Deus is probably Town
Max is Town enough
Jim is hesitantly scummy
Toony is hesitantly scummy
Knightwing is hesitantly scummy
The problem here is if I accept that Max is Town, I can accept his reading of Knightwing on the basis that Toony as scum and Max as Town would read Knightwing as scum.
Jim + Toony is too easy.
Um... You were an SK when you were a Dragon.I am Dragon, your argument is invalid.am I the only one who finds it weird Tric isn’t acting chaotic stupid?No. After I saw where you said that, I went back and looked more and that's why I wrote that I wasn't as confident about him anymore. I do think you have a point.
Yes? Okay.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 23, 2022, 06:03:38 pm
If you're set on TricMagic, I'm not against voting him outRight now, I'm not set on anything. His play DOES remind me of times when he was third-party.
As for knightwing, it's entirely possible that he's learned to do better or is teamed up with someone (ToonyMan? You, not that I'd expect you to admit it?) who could coach him, but I think he shows the signs of trying, like how he keeps suspecting Tric for clearly expressed reasons. (I think "Tric not acting scummy == Tric scum" is too simplistic, but it's certainly been true and makes for a fair approximation.)
I could buy a KW/Toony team if that's what you're selling me, and maybe KW/Jim again (I just reread Demon Mafia, too), since he did a pretty good job trying to save himself that time. But even if you convince me that he's scum... I'm still gonna say we should try to find a partner to lynch first just because this IS his personal themed game. It just seems kind of cruel.
(On the other hand, I could also believe that Jack would make Knightwing scum in his knightwing-themed game on purpose, too.)
Speaking of the subject of partners, I do think there could be solo mafia and 2 third parties to make the Jim Jack Tric title work, too. Since Tric was actually town in that game, it could even be something like... Tric-spirit is the mafia and Jim- and Jack-spirits are 3ps, in a kind of reversal. Since the original plan seems like it would be too scumsided for seven players, that does sound like a way to downsize while keeping the theme intact. Might explain why, at least to me, I'm not really able to justify any teams yet.
And I'll take your word for it about Mothman, for now.
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2022, 06:49:45 pm
This is mostly due to the fact a lot of people are playing it safe and seeking info, but not voting. Most votes are still on their RVS targets right now.
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2022, 06:51:06 pm
You know, Dues, I'll just murder Jim tonight if he doesn't show.
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 07:31:41 pm
I don't like that last post.
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2022, 07:35:12 pm
I don't think you ever answered my question either.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 23, 2022, 07:53:13 pm
Tricmagic
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2022, 07:56:52 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 23, 2022, 08:04:49 pm
Is that hammer?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 23, 2022, 08:05:41 pm
I didn’t realize I already voted you. Your still at 3.
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2022, 08:09:11 pm
Consider this, how many people are interested in me not shooting them tonight? If town, they more want me not to shoot them. If scum, they want me dead so I can't shoot them.
For now your response seems townish enough, I guess. So Knightwing64.
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2022, 08:11:08 pm
TricMagic because the game says to kill him, now.
Also I still have a lot of Christmas preparations I need to do, so I might be scarce at times.
To note, before we start lynching me, given Jim a chance to react, yeah webadict?
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 08:15:21 pm
Pretty quick reaction webadict. Why so red? Not like you can't stop it if you want to right? Or was that setup for an excuse later on?You had a question? I'll be honest, I didn't see it.
I don't think you ever answered my question either.
Would you like to vote out Jim? I'm down with that, honestly.TricMagic because the game says to kill him, now.
Also I still have a lot of Christmas preparations I need to do, so I might be scarce at times.
To note, before we start lynching me, given Jim a chance to react, yeah webadict?
I'll vote Jim Groovester for now, though.
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 08:17:29 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 09:25:29 pm
No, just a trick to see how you would react. I'm good at those.I would shoot someone tonight if we no lynch, that way if mafia kill someone else you're pretty cleared as not mafia. (I think Webadict realizes this and is trying to pin you as a SK which makes sense to me if he's mafia.)
Consider this, how many people are interested in me not shooting them tonight? If town, they more want me not to shoot them. If scum, they want me dead so I can't shoot them.
For now your response seems townish enough, I guess. So Knightwing64.
If two people die tonight we're still at 5 people and even better if Tric hits mafia.
Also, if you actually think I'm scum, you're gonna lose.If you're against no lynching I'm still fine seeing you flip.
I checked, there were some protection roles but I didn't see any that protected two, maybe Jack gave a buff? Mafia also had a special kill that could bypass protection (Jim had it I think).
I'm not entirely confident in my read of you, but I'm suspicious of your attitude towards Tric and Knightwing.
I think I'm also willing to vote Jim or Deus right now, but still prefer just no lynching. My role likely favors us no lynching anyway.
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 09:28:33 pm
I'd agree to that. Sounds pretty fair.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 09:28:45 pm
Speaking of tomorrow, it'll be Christmas Eve and I'm not going to be around much.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 09:34:56 pm
I can only tell you what my role is, Toony. I can't make you believe me. So, how about this Toony? If you agree to being shot by TricMagic, I won't mind voting for a No Elim. I won't protect you, naturally, so there is that.I'm dead either way. If mafia don't kill me then Tric will, they may even both kill me which makes Tric look suspicious I guess but at least only one player dies.
I'd agree to that. Sounds pretty fair.
Okay how about this, statement time: If I'm the only dead person tonight don't vote Tric. Or Knightwing. I'm banking all my holiday marbles on this. If I'm dead along with someone else tonight then Tric is not mafia. Web could be correct in suspecting SK, but I don't believe this.
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 09:36:32 pm
^ This is not a Townie understanding of my response to TricMagic.No, just a trick to see how you would react. I'm good at those.I would shoot someone tonight if we no lynch, that way if mafia kill someone else you're pretty cleared as not mafia. (I think Webadict realizes this and is trying to pin you as a SK which makes sense to me if he's mafia.)
Consider this, how many people are interested in me not shooting them tonight? If town, they more want me not to shoot them. If scum, they want me dead so I can't shoot them.
For now your response seems townish enough, I guess. So Knightwing64.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 23, 2022, 09:40:21 pm
Post by: webadict on December 23, 2022, 10:03:42 pm
I'm dead either way. If mafia don't kill me then Tric will, they may even both kill me which makes Tric look suspicious I guess but at least only one player dies.How does that make Tric look suspicious? I already believe that Tric isn't (teamed) Mafia??
Okay how about this, statement time: If I'm the only dead person tonight don't vote Tric. Or Knightwing. I'm banking all my holiday marbles on this. If I'm dead along with someone else tonight then Tric is not mafia. Web could be correct in suspecting SK, but I don't believe this.
Like, there's already the possibility that I protect a kill. What then? Would that not cause the same amount of possible suspicion to you then?
What?
Quote
(I think Webadict realizes this and is trying to pin you as a SK which makes sense to me if he's mafia.)If you think that I'm trying to "pin TricMagic as the SK", then you're essentially buddying TricMagic into believing that I'm trying to frame him to keep his vote on me. I think, in that particular case, I'd just stay voting TricMagic, but let's give me the consequence of the doubt, and say that I'd do everything the exact same as Town or scum no matter what because I'm simultaneously a genius and also an idiot. I thought that his response was fairly reasonable (for him) to being voted, which is to immediately OMGUS me for voting him, something he tends to do fairly often as Town to the detriment of others. Also, wanting Jim Groovester time to reply felt like he was resigned to his fate to die, which I could see him doing as Town. Now, how would he react as SK? Not sure. I don't think he spends his time defending Knightwing like that. I'm not really in the mood to vote TricMagic, but I think relying on TricMagic to do TricMagic things is so very silly.
There was a reason why I said I was okay voting out Jim Groovester there.
The reason why I'm in favor of voting out TricMagic is that he's a wildcard. If I'm scum, there is literally no reason for me to go after him, because he will (almost) never shoot me if I'm scum. And even if I was afraid of that as scum, I'd absolutely take that bet a million times because it's hilarious to do so. It's why you buddying him is definitely something you'd do as scum. I don't say that because it's what I feel like you'd do, it's because you do it often in games with him. I don't really feel like finding the examples of that, but just reread the last Day of Totem Mafia if anyone really cares.
You not being in favor of voting TricMagic is highly concerning, since you are often a proponent of removing TricMagic from the equation often and early as Town.
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 23, 2022, 11:36:25 pm
There's a lot of other things going on that are catching my focus and I value those things more than this game.
I probably will not be around at all tomorrow.
@Jim/TricMagic/Deus: Who should I vote between Max, ToonyMan, and Knightwing? At least one of them is scum, and at most one of you guys are (and it's probably not Tric)
*flips three sided coin*
Maximum Spin.
I really don't think it's any of those three, or at least, I wouldn't pick those three first.
I tend to think it's Jim no matter what
wedothiseverygame
Quote
webadict patiently interacts with Knightwing64, encouraging him to actually play mafia
Is this exchange alignment indicative? Probably not. Does my opinion about webadict improve from this interaction? A little bit, I think.
Response for what?
It’s D1. This is the time for trolling and fun before everyone reverts to tryhard mode.
Have we really been playing in the same games together on the same board?
People tryhard more on Day 1 than any other time.
Webadict: from that trio I would be more inclined to vote Knight currently until I get more of a response from them. I can buy Toony being town and Spin trying to work around our apparent loose cannon means is at least useful to the town. Can you explain the logic behind your trios?
I like you asking this question.
It seems rushed, I dunno. It rubs me the wrong way.
This is actually worth considering. If we're assuming that Tric uses their kill tonight and misses, lynching today puts us at four players left after the scumkill which is a loss if there are two scum players. The best strategy may in fact be no-lynching today and Tric not killing anyone tonight, since that leaves us with six players and the option for Tric to shoot someone in the case of a mislynch (assuming that they don't get killed).
I don't like this suggestion for a couple of reasons.
We don't know the makeup of the scum team or what abilities the Jim/Jack/Tric roles have so there's no reason to believe that this plan will go off without a hitch even if TricMagic would be on board with it. E.G., we follow this plan, do a Day 2 mislynch, scum have a redirect, we lose anyway.
There's also that the town needs to come to some kind of consensus about how to solve the game and then use the lynch to test one of the proposed solutions, and no lynching takes that opportunity away from us and leaves us only the night kill for information to help solve the game, which is guaranteed to be as uninformative as possible.
I like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.
I'm firmly open to this plan.
Why do I feel like the weird one here?
I disagree with this plan on several levels, but also for role related reasons.
If you want to control how Tric shoots, just use a vote, what the fuck, Toony?
At least webadict????????????????????
agrees with me.
When did you start thinking a SK was possible then?
The rules say it's a possibility.
Why are you voting me Jim?
It was a shitpost to start with but you're my strongest scumread.
I dislike that in your second post of the game you immediately try to deflect suspicion by saying 'if you think I'm scum then who's my partner?'
I am Dragon, your argument is invalid.
DRAGON DEEZ NUTZ
I have one last thing I want to say before day end but I don't want to say it YET. Don't let me forget though, it's important.
What difference does it make whether you say it now or later?
I feel like I worry about a doctor Tric more than a vig Tric anyway.
Every time TricMagic is a doctor we should lynch whoever he protects since he always protects scum.
Consider this, how many people are interested in me not shooting them tonight? If town, they more want me not to shoot them. If scum, they want me dead so I can't shoot them.
I'm pretty ambivalent about you shooting me honestly.
I'll vote Jim Groovester for now, though.
I'm pretty ambivalent about you voting me honestly.
READS
webadict - I'm finding myself on the same page as webadict on a couple different points so I'm inclined to feel like he's town here but this could be a game losing assumption.
ToonyMan - Fine I guess. He's not making me feel like he's town as strongly as he normally does but I don't have any particular objections to anything he's done.
Maximum Spin - Fine I guess. Not really objecting to anything he's done but like ToonyMan he's also not making me feel super strongly about him being town.
Knightwing64 - Fine I guess. I'd have a hard time saying this is scum Knightwing64 honestly.
Deus Asmoth - There are parts of Deus Asmoth's play I don't like and other parts I do like. I don't remember the last time I played with him but I feel like part of the reason why I dislike some of the things he's done is because he's playing a bit more like the older B12 style which I generally don't like that much and find suspicious whenever I see it.
TricMagic - Like I mentioned above I don't like that in his second post of the game he's deflecting suspicion by demanding people identify his partner. My opinion hasn't changed much or improved since then.
TricMagic is my strongest scumread but I'm having trouble identifying who he could be partnered with.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 12:04:58 am
There are plenty of games where I don't want Tric voted. I was a pretty staunch defender of him in Dragon Deez Nuts Mafia and he wasn't even town. I also defended KW there too.
I'm not siding with Tric to gain his favor. I'm 100% certain Tric would shoot me no matter what I said because when N1 starts he'll impulsively pick the player that rubbed him the most wrong. This isn't necessarily me, but you get the point.
I think mafia would be more afraid of a "wildcard" loose cannon than town would be.
I don't like how you don't think Tric is mafia but are still in favor of voting them.
@Jim:
I don't think Tric is with anybody, but at least you want to vote him because you think he's scum.
This is weird for me to say, but I'm seeing this premonition now where lynching Tric today loses us the game.
I think your increased opinion of Webadict thanks to his interactions with Knightwing feels genuine, as I had the same feeling there. If Web is legit his misgivings towards me are very unfounded.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 12:16:29 am
Max with no vote?
ToonyManI like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.I disagree with this plan on several levels, but also for role related reasons.
Worst case he shoots anyway and misses leaving us probably at a 5 player lylo instead of straight up losing.
If you want to control how Tric shoots, just use a vote, what the fuck, Toony?
Why vote for Toony here? You've said that you disagree with the idea of a no-lynch which I get, but I don't see the link from that to voting Toony because of supporting that idea. The post you were responding to looks pretty consistent to his earlier idea of not wanting to vote for Tric, which you seemed to think he was town for before?
Maximum Spin: You brought up the idea that Webadict was buddying with Toony before, but you're directly asking him to provide his read on me. Why are you asking someone who you already have said is doing scum behaviour to do your scum hunting for you?
TricMagic:
Thinking on it, Jim. This would be Dues, but they haven't shown up. Could be christmastime..I don't know if there's anything I'm meant to respond to here. I guess I'd like to know your reasoning if you didn't have a question.
You know, Dues, I'll just murder Jim tonight if he doesn't show.
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 24, 2022, 12:52:54 am
@Jim:
I don't think Tric is with anybody, but at least you want to vote him because you think he's scum.
This is weird for me to say, but I'm seeing this premonition now where lynching Tric today loses us the game.
That's fair, but nobody's really pinging me except for TricMagic and maybe Deus Asmoth but I'm going to extend some slack to the latter because I think my misgivings might be meta quibbles.
I could maaaaaaybe go for Maximum Spin or you if somebody were to sufficiently convince me that either of you were somehow the superior Day 1 choice instead of TricMagic but it would have to be a really solid case.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 01:00:34 am
READS... I don't think I believe you in this post here. I don't know why, but I don't trust something.
webadict - I'm finding myself on the same page as webadict on a couple different points so I'm inclined to feel like he's town here but this could be a game losing assumption.
ToonyMan - Fine I guess. He's not making me feel like he's town as strongly as he normally does but I don't have any particular objections to anything he's done.
Maximum Spin - Fine I guess. Not really objecting to anything he's done but like ToonyMan he's also not making me feel super strongly about him being town.
Knightwing64 - Fine I guess. I'd have a hard time saying this is scum Knightwing64 honestly.
Deus Asmoth - There are parts of Deus Asmoth's play I don't like and other parts I do like. I don't remember the last time I played with him but I feel like part of the reason why I dislike some of the things he's done is because he's playing a bit more like the older B12 style which I generally don't like that much and find suspicious whenever I see it.
TricMagic - Like I mentioned above I don't like that in his second post of the game he's deflecting suspicion by demanding people identify his partner. My opinion hasn't changed much or improved since then.
TricMagic is my strongest scumread but I'm having trouble identifying who he could be partnered with.
TricMagic being your strongest scumread is a bad sign to me. I don't have problems voting out TricMagic, but I'm not sure I see him being your strongest scumread here. Maybe it's just the comparison I get, but it feels like you don't suspect anyone. If Deus is the second most suspicious for playing in an older style (which I think makes sense because he played in older games), then is there inherently anything truly suspicious about him? Him wanting to No Elim is something I remember from older metas, but if that's what you're latching onto, why is ToonyMan so Town to you? Other than that, I'm not sure if I see much in the vein of older styles?
@Webadict:Statistically, TricMagic has helped Mafia at a higher than average rate, so I don't see that as an unfounded worry.
I think mafia would be more afraid of a "wildcard" loose cannon than town would be.
I don't like how you don't think Tric is mafia but are still in favor of voting them.
I'll spin that accusation around on you: I don't like how you're in favor of not eliminating someone but are voting for me when the outcome you're wanting to avoid (TricMagic killing a Townie) would be avoided by voting out TricMagic, especially as a claimed Doctor, which would doubly avoid the issue.
Would it be better if I said there's a chance that TricMagic is scum? I don't really think he's scum, but that doesn't mean that his execution isn't a good backup.
Webadict:Because ToonyMan advocating for a No Elimination isn't a sight I'm used to, and it feels incorrect here.ToonyMan
I disagree with this plan on several levels, but also for role related reasons.
If you want to control how Tric shoots, just use a vote, what the fuck, Toony?
Why vote for Toony here? You've said that you disagree with the idea of a no-lynch which I get, but I don't see the link from that to voting Toony because of supporting that idea. The post you were responding to looks pretty consistent to his earlier idea of not wanting to vote for Tric, which you seemed to think he was town for before?
Is he implying that TricMagic cannot be persuaded to shoot as a secondary execution? Is he implying that TricMagic is scum or unreliable?
It feels like No Elimination here leads to a second No Elimination Tomorrow or, even worse, a Miseliminate And Lose situation. It is playing to avoid a loss instead of playing to win, and no one has provided a solid reason as to why that should happen.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 06:23:16 am
Maximum Spin: You brought up the idea that Webadict was buddying with Toony before, but you're directly asking him to provide his read on me. Why are you asking someone who you already have said is doing scum behaviour to do your scum hunting for you?That's a weird and somewhat shady interpretation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking a player in a mafia game a question. It's actually kind of important. I wanted his read on you because it's useful information.
I have to give you the benefit of the doubt for not having played a game together that I can remember, but man.
If it helps, I wasn't really open to the idea. I just wanted to encourage him.I like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.I'm firmly open to this plan.
Why do I feel like the weird one here?
Quote
Uh, well, I just woke up and, right now, I can't remember why I was putting it off. I think I just forgot to say it when I should have, and then decided I should telegraph it ahead of time instead of bringing it up out of nowhere in the middle of the day. It's also possible that I then forgot again. Yesterday was a little weird.I have one last thing I want to say before day end but I don't want to say it YET. Don't let me forget though, it's important.
What difference does it make whether you say it now or later?
I definitely need to get it out there before the day ends, though, so I'll just get on with it. I'm a (type of) miller. You can probably guess which player that means my role is based on, but I'm not going to confirm or deny anything.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 10:14:37 am
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2022, 10:25:03 am
I do have some reads though. Knightwing is probobly town. webadict and toony are arguing, so their is town in one of them. (at least.) And right now Max is also on my scumread list. So it's max/jim / webtoony.
The Nolynch arguments are probably the worst case, since we'd be on the defensive as a result here. We either start day 2 in the same spot as day 1, or worse off cause we're in Mylo.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 10:36:03 am
Well, jim gives a point about Dues playing in an older style. And I can be convinced not to shoot tonight. Save it for later. On the other dragon claw, Jim also doesn't have any other scum reads but me. Which, fair, but you do need to tie me with someone else most times. Or call me a Mally drawing attention, but I'm self-aware enough to point such out.If you're Town, keeping your kill for a Lylo situation is the best outcome, assuming you can convince people you're Town. If you don't think you can convince people you're Town, then using your kill as a second vote is the second best outcome.
I do have some reads though. Knightwing is probobly town. webadict and toony are arguing, so their is town in one of them. (at least.) And right now Max is also on my scumread list. So it's max/jim / webtoony.
The Nolynch arguments are probably the worst case, since we'd be on the defensive as a result here. We either start day 2 in the same spot as day 1, or worse off cause we're in Mylo.
I can protect you Tonight, so there's no worries about you dying if that's what you're worried about. I'll probably be protecting Max and you Tonight unless I come up with a target that's better, but there's not really much reason to think too hard about it.
I can't really tell on Deus, but maybe Max is right and it really is Jim + Toony.
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2022, 10:48:10 am
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 10:55:56 am
It feels like No Elimination here leads to a second No Elimination Tomorrow or, even worse, a Miseliminate And Lose situation. It is playing to avoid a loss instead of playing to win, and no one has provided a solid reason as to why that should happen.I plan on voting someone tomorrow. I don't even think I should switch to no lynch right now since Tric is saying they're not going to shoot.
My ability is information based so if I'm alive D2 I'm slamming my results first thing (I realize there are roleblocks and redirects in this game, but regardless).
@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?
Mine doesn't say it's a 1-shot though.. shrugs.I think it's correct to shoot someone if no one dies today Tric.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 10:57:22 am
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 11:00:44 am
I can protect you Tonight, so there's no worries about you dying if that's what you're worried about. I'll probably be protecting Max and you Tonight unless I come up with a target that's better, but there's not really much reason to think too hard about it.There's no reason to say your protect targets.
I can't really tell on Deus, but maybe Max is right and it really is Jim + Toony.
Your words feel malicious in nature here.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 11:03:30 am
@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?
My role power doesn't really seem to be based on the player's actual role from that gameIt seems to me like my role is more based on EuchreJack's interpretation of how the previous game worked. I assumed the other roles were also like that, so are you saying yours is exactly the power the player had?
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 11:36:18 am
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 11:53:26 am
I have one ability and works just like part of that player's role, it's not exact.@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?My role power doesn't really seem to be based on the player's actual role from that gameIt seems to me like my role is more based on EuchreJack's interpretation of how the previous game worked. I assumed the other roles were also like that, so are you saying yours is exactly the power the player had?
How would you feel about me targeting you tonight? This is no guarantee of course.
Some other comments: Knightwing's role in the previous game had a late clause which meant he couldn't use his one-shot kill until after D3. Tric has stated his kill isn't one-shot and there probably isn't a late clause either.
I feel like the two people I most need to worry about being mafia are web and Toony. Moreover, I don't think you're both mafia. So, why don't each of you tell me who I should vote for?Well, we're not both mafia.
I feel like Webadict is mafia, and he seems to think the same about me. I currently can't tell if this is a bad misunderstanding between us. It's obviously very embarrassing when we're both town and make enemies of each other.
I think you and Deus are possible mafia, but I don't want to vote you. I haven't seen either of you really under fire yet. Both of you support no-lynching which might be a sign I'm on the wrong side.
I feel better about Jim, since Web is antagonizing Jim and I'm usually pretty good at reading Jim. This might actually make Web look better, since he usually misreads Jim as mafia when he's town while I correctly read Jim as town when I'm town.
I'm not considering Tric or KW.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 11:58:04 am
Both of you support no-lynching(I don't.)
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 12:24:53 pm
That's maybe partially true? My role says the MOD feels bad about my person dying first, so my unnamed person takes matters into their own hands to stop others from dying.@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?My role power doesn't really seem to be based on the player's actual role from that gameIt seems to me like my role is more based on EuchreJack's interpretation of how the previous game worked. I assumed the other roles were also like that, so are you saying yours is exactly the power the player had?
Mine doesn't say it's a 1-shot though.. shrugs.... That's broken, yo! Mine absolutely says 1-shot. This is garbage!
No elimination is for cowards!Both of you support no-lynching(I don't.)
The worst you can get from this is that I'm setting up a future where I can simply choose someone to kill that doesn't belong to Max or TricMagic. If I'm trying to frame you and Jim, I'd have to kill Deus or Knightwing and my partner would be in Max or TricMagic. I don't think you think any of those are my teammate, and it's also not a very good plan on my part. There's worries that I might be roleblocked, but that only makes me look scummier if Tric or Max die, so that's a really bad plan on my part. Quite silly.I can protect you Tonight, so there's no worries about you dying if that's what you're worried about. I'll probably be protecting Max and you Tonight unless I come up with a target that's better, but there's not really much reason to think too hard about it.There's no reason to say your protect targets.
I can't really tell on Deus, but maybe Max is right and it really is Jim + Toony.
Your words feel malicious in nature here.
There's two other interpretations here that are far more plausible: I'm trying to bait the kill in the hopes that there is a Tracker or Watcher as well as remove myself from the equation as a suspect; Or, I'm trying to WIFOM the Mafia into killing Deus or Knightwing and removing someone that's hard to read or to last-second shift my protect to save him.
I guess it comes down to what you think is more likely for me to do as scum, but since that's a question that nobody really wants to think about, understanding the outcomes if I'm scum or Town is the better option. I don't really see this move as a solid advancement of a scum strategy.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 01:19:46 pm
Maximum Spin: You brought up the idea that Webadict was buddying with Toony before, but you're directly asking him to provide his read on me. Why are you asking someone who you already have said is doing scum behaviour to do your scum hunting for you?That's a weird and somewhat shady interpretation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking a player in a mafia game a question. It's actually kind of important. I wanted his read on you because it's useful information.
I have to give you the benefit of the doubt for not having played a game together that I can remember, but man.
Two part response here:
1: Can you explain what's weird about my interpretation rather than gesturing vaguely and acting offended?
2: I agree that there's nothing wrong with asking a question. I do think there's something wrong with asking Webadict to tell you what your read on me should be when Webadict is one of the players you've said you're leaning scum on and you have yet to actually ask me a question.
Bonus:
Quote
If it helps, I wasn't really open to the idea. I just wanted to encourage him.I like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.I'm firmly open to this plan.
Why do I feel like the weird one here?
Why should anyone believe you're telling the truth about this now?
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 01:43:36 pm
MaximumI thought I did? If I wasn't clear enough, it's weird that you think I'm asking him to do my scum hunting for you when I first, didn't even ask him in particular anything, but just offered him as a possibility after asking a general question, and second, only asked a normal and reasonable question.Maximum Spin: You brought up the idea that Webadict was buddying with Toony before, but you're directly asking him to provide his read on me. Why are you asking someone who you already have said is doing scum behaviour to do your scum hunting for you?That's a weird and somewhat shady interpretation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking a player in a mafia game a question. It's actually kind of important. I wanted his read on you because it's useful information.
I have to give you the benefit of the doubt for not having played a game together that I can remember, but man.
Two part response here:
1: Can you explain what's weird about my interpretation rather than gesturing vaguely and acting offended?
Quote
I do think there's something wrong with asking Webadict to tell you what your read on me should beSee, there you're doing it again. What the hell makes you think that's what I'm doing? I just asked for opinions on you. That doesn't mean "tell me what my read on you should be", it just means I want to hear thoughts so I can make judgements based on them. You know, like... playing the game.
But anyway,
Quote
Why should anyone believe you're telling the truth about this now?You know what? I agree with Jim on at least one thing: fuuuuuuuck this ancient meta.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 01:45:14 pm
Firmly open, supporting, whatever.Both of you support no-lynching(I don't.)
This sounds legit to me.That's maybe partially true? My role says the MOD feels bad about my person dying first, so my unnamed person takes matters into their own hands to stop others from dying.@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?My role power doesn't really seem to be based on the player's actual role from that gameIt seems to me like my role is more based on EuchreJack's interpretation of how the previous game worked. I assumed the other roles were also like that, so are you saying yours is exactly the power the player had?
There's two other interpretations here that are far more plausible: I'm trying to bait the kill in the hopes that there is a Tracker or Watcher as well as remove myself from the equation as a suspect; Or, I'm trying to WIFOM the Mafia into killing Deus or Knightwing and removing someone that's hard to read or to last-second shift my protect to save him.If they kill me there won't be any tracker/watcher results. O_O
Your attitude annoys me personally but I don't think I should be taking this game too seriously for my own health.
Since I don't know if I'll be available for deadline (I'm going to be away) I'm going to No Lynch and see what happens.
1. I want Tric to kill someone if the no lynch goes through, I think that's optimal. If he purposely doesn't kill then I will be very annoyed.
2. Web can protect whoever he wants. I don't think he believes me but I don't care.
3. I'm going to track (or maybe watch) someone.
4. Everyone else, do your thing I guess.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 02:01:30 pm
Two part response here:I'm on Max's side in this argument. I don't think you're onto anything suspicious.
1: Can you explain what's weird about my interpretation rather than gesturing vaguely and acting offended?
2: I agree that there's nothing wrong with asking a question. I do think there's something wrong with asking Webadict to tell you what your read on me should be when Webadict is one of the players you've said you're leaning scum on and you have yet to actually ask me a question.
Lol, see, that's all you gotta claim, man! I'll Protect you, you track/watch me (or don't, ooooo, spooooooky~~!) and confirm who I double-protected. Look at that, we're all in this together! See how easy that is?This sounds legit to me.That's maybe partially true? My role says the MOD feels bad about my person dying first, so my unnamed person takes matters into their own hands to stop others from dying.@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?My role power doesn't really seem to be based on the player's actual role from that gameIt seems to me like my role is more based on EuchreJack's interpretation of how the previous game worked. I assumed the other roles were also like that, so are you saying yours is exactly the power the player had?There's two other interpretations here that are far more plausible: I'm trying to bait the kill in the hopes that there is a Tracker or Watcher as well as remove myself from the equation as a suspect; Or, I'm trying to WIFOM the Mafia into killing Deus or Knightwing and removing someone that's hard to read or to last-second shift my protect to save him.If they kill me there won't be any tracker/watcher results. O_O
Your attitude annoys me personally but I don't think I should be taking this game too seriously for my own health.
Since I don't know if I'll be available for deadline (I'm going to be away) I'm going to No Lynch and see what happens.
1. I want Tric to kill someone if the no lynch goes through, I think that's optimal. If he purposely doesn't kill then I will be very annoyed.
2. Web can protect whoever he wants. I don't think he believes me but I don't care.
3. I'm going to track (or maybe watch) someone.
4. Everyone else, do your thing I guess.
Psh, you think I'm not gonna believe you on something that's really easy to verify Tomorrow.
But, here's the problem I've got with you, Toony: If you're Town, then I don't think Jim can possibly be Town unless Maximum Spin is pulling a fast one on us. Like, it's probably not TricMagic, and I'll just call that one settled for now. If you think it's not Knightwing, and I'm willing to totally accept that and call it good (... he probably is Town), then I think it's probably Jim + Deus. Max seems to think Deus is suspicious but wasn't willing to go all in because I called it okay, but the truth was really that I wanted Deus to have a bit of freedom to try and build some cases, and also see who he interacted with. Max kinda continued to stick with it (which is totally fair of him to do), but their interactions don't feel like a Max + Deus team. I know you're against thinking Jim is scum, but I don't really see how it's possible for Jim to NOT be scum if you're Town unless you think Max + Deus is possible.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 02:04:20 pm
I don't like that.
If nobody else changes soon I'm switching to Tric, I'll take Tric over No Lynch any day.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 02:06:10 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 02:08:27 pm
Deus Asmoth for now, but I'm willing to shift.... I want to follow but it would just reconstruct the tie.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 02:09:31 pm
I thought I did? If I wasn't clear enough, it's weird that you think I'm asking him to do my scum hunting for you when I first, didn't even ask him in particular anything, but just offered him as a possibility after asking a general question, and second, only asked a normal and reasonable question.
Quote
God in the form of a moth is giving me bad vibes here, but I don't really have any experience playing with him. Can anyone give me any tips? Webadict, maybe?
You said a player was giving you 'bad vibes' and rather than actually follow up on it yourself by asking them anything (which you still haven't done) you asked other players to weigh in on it, specifically mentioning one of the players you had already said were scum-leaning. If that isn't asking other players to do your scum hunting for you then I don't know what you were hoping to achieve.
Quote
QuoteI do think there's something wrong with asking Webadict to tell you what your read on me should beSee, there you're doing it again. What the hell makes you think that's what I'm doing? I just asked for opinions on you. That doesn't mean "tell me what my read on you should be", it just means I want to hear thoughts so I can make judgements based on them. You know, like... playing the game.
The thing that makes me think that's what you're doing is the fact that it's literally what you did.
Quote
But anyway,QuoteWhy should anyone believe you're telling the truth about this now?You know what? I agree with Jim on at least one thing: fuuuuuuuck this ancient meta.
If the current meta involves glossing over a player admitting to blatantly lying for no reason then I don't have any particular interest in modernising.
Post by: EuchreJack on December 24, 2022, 02:10:31 pm
(0) Maximum Spin:
(2) Tric: Jim, Knight
(1) Jim: Max
(0) Knightwing:
(1) Webadict: Tric
(0) Toonyman:
(1) Deus Asmoth: Web
(2) No Lynch: Deus, Toony
4 to Hammer
Not voting:
Day will END at 7:30pm EST Saturday December 24th AKA Christmas Eve. That is 5 hours 22 minutes from NOW.
Looks like No Lynch and Tric are TIED. I wonder which Scum will choose?
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 02:11:20 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
-> TricMagic --2-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8437701#msg8437701), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438587#msg8438587),
Deus Asmoth --1-- webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438866#msg8438866),
Jim Groovester --1-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8437700#msg8437700),
webadict --1-- TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438581#msg8438581),
Knightwing64 --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
-> No One --2-- Deus Asmoth* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438463#msg8438463), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438861#msg8438861),
Not Voting --0--
4 to Hammer. Day ends on December 24, 2022 at 18:30 Central Standard Time (5 hours and 19 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, the Mafia chooses the execution target.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 02:12:39 pm
If the current meta involves glossing over a player admitting to blatantly lying for no reason then I don't have any particular interest in modernising.But he did have a reason. He stated he was egging Jim on.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 02:17:20 pm
No? That interpretation of what he said makes absolutely no sense.If the current meta involves glossing over a player admitting to blatantly lying for no reason then I don't have any particular interest in modernising.But he did have a reason. He stated he was egging Jim on.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 02:26:13 pm
Oh, whoops, I misread that quote block. Not because of it having no reason, but because it wasn't anything that mattered to me.No? That interpretation of what he said makes absolutely no sense.If the current meta involves glossing over a player admitting to blatantly lying for no reason then I don't have any particular interest in modernising.But he did have a reason. He stated he was egging Jim on.
I don't consider that type of lie to be egregious, nor is it in any way destructive towards Town. If you can argue for why that lie in particular furthered a scum wincon, I'll agree.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 02:33:02 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 02:34:55 pm
Look, back when I used to play at a different place I used to like no-lynching, but since I've been here I have only seen it used by mafia to get a free kill. It's an instant red flag for me.
And, generally, the pattern I would expect is that one mafia player suggests it while the rest hang back, ready to join in on the idea if town seem to be biting. So, I decided to seem to be biting, to see how the other players would respond. So far, really only web passed the test, which makes me less suspicious of him.
I can't think of a non-scummy reason to be mad that I did this, either.
Actually, come to think of it, this feels a lot like notquitethere as scum back in what I think was webadict's Supernatural. Seizing on an instance of town deploying a minor trick to whine about endlessly and try to put that player on the back foot. I really don't think it's going to work though.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 02:37:42 pm
I don't think that his lie furthered a scum wincon. I think it's indicative of a pattern of behaviour from Maximum Spin, by which I mean he's unwilling to commit to anything. He's suspicious of me but seems to be refusing to directly engage with me any further than I force him to. He says he's willing to go with one plan, but when that plan receives any pushback he was actually lying the whole time. Why are you framing this as though the only way to decide if someone is scum is for them to directly hinder the town? Trying to avoid suspicion by dodging direct confrontation seems equally scummy to me.How am I dodging direct confrontation? I just swore at you a few minutes ago. I have directly stated that I think your argument is dumb and obviously shady and I don't believe you when you pretend not to understand that.
In terms of "refusing to directly engage with you", how so? I've responded to you a couple times now. If you're trying to spin something out of what you said before about me not asking you any questions... why would I want to hear your answers to any questions when I would not believe them? That's just more boring old-meta.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 02:40:43 pm
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 02:48:13 pm
I don't think that his lie furthered a scum wincon. I think it's indicative of a pattern of behaviour from Maximum Spin, by which I mean he's unwilling to commit to anything. He's suspicious of me but seems to be refusing to directly engage with me any further than I force him to. He says he's willing to go with one plan, but when that plan receives any pushback he was actually lying the whole time. Why are you framing this as though the only way to decide if someone is scum is for them to directly hinder the town? Trying to avoid suspicion by dodging direct confrontation seems equally scummy to me.Hm, I understand a bit where you're coming from. That's... kinda just how Max is? Like, take my word for it or don't, he's actually engaging a lot more than he used to.
Sometimes, in order to understand a mind frame, seeing how far they'll take it will tell you a lot. In this particular case, Max looks like he wanted to see who was actually in for a No Elim. To me, that's not scummy behavior, but if you think he was actually for a No Elim, then that's what you should be trying to prove. However, I don't really see it. The best you could argue is that he made an an argument and tried to get everyone on board with it slyly, but that's gonna involve you understanding Max's mindset here.
The point of me asking how it furthers scum wincon is what's going to persuade me the most.
Alright, let's dial it down. We're getting nowhere fast in this argument.I don't think that his lie furthered a scum wincon. I think it's indicative of a pattern of behaviour from Maximum Spin, by which I mean he's unwilling to commit to anything. He's suspicious of me but seems to be refusing to directly engage with me any further than I force him to. He says he's willing to go with one plan, but when that plan receives any pushback he was actually lying the whole time. Why are you framing this as though the only way to decide if someone is scum is for them to directly hinder the town? Trying to avoid suspicion by dodging direct confrontation seems equally scummy to me.How am I dodging direct confrontation? I just swore at you a few minutes ago. I have directly stated that I think your argument is dumb and obviously shady and I don't believe you when you pretend not to understand that.
In terms of "refusing to directly engage with you", how so? I've responded to you a couple times now. If you're trying to spin something out of what you said before about me not asking you any questions... why would I want to hear your answers to any questions when I would not believe them? That's just more boring old-meta.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 02:48:52 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 02:51:57 pm
How am I dodging direct confrontation? I just swore at you a few minutes ago.
Why do you think that is in any way relevant?
Quote
I have directly stated that I think your argument is dumb and obviously shady and I don't believe you when you pretend not to understand that.
You mistake me not believing your unfounded statements with me not understanding them.
Quote
In terms of "refusing to directly engage with you", how so? I've responded to you a couple times now.
What I actually said was that you refuse to engage with me further than you're forced to. I'll add 'blatantly misrepresents the accusations against him' to the list though.
Quote
If you're trying to spin something out of what you said before about me not asking you any questions... why would I want to hear your answers to any questions when I would not believe them? That's just more boring old-meta.So we've gone from you having generic 'bad vibes' to you being willing to believe Webadict's opinion about me being town-ish despite him being one of your scum reads to you not being able to believe a word I say. Did you figure out there was no point in asking me anything before the game started or did this opinion develop partway through?
Quote
I didn't specifically say "Jim" but... yeah, pretty much.In what way does you agreeing to a plan that I suggested and Toony agreed to have anything to do with Jim?
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2022, 02:57:27 pm
Well I was. Dues, can you give a solid rundown on why No Lynch is the currect move here? Put it out like we're new to the game, way back when.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 03:00:30 pm
I'm not forced to engage with you at all, dude. I could, like, leave. Like Jim has!QuoteIn terms of "refusing to directly engage with you", how so? I've responded to you a couple times now.
What I actually said was that you refuse to engage with me further than you're forced to. I'll add 'blatantly misrepresents the accusations against him' to the list though.
Quote
So we've gone from you having generic 'bad vibes' to you being willing to believe Webadict's opinion about me being town-ish despite him being one of your scum reads to you not being able to believe a word I say. Did you figure out there was no point in asking me anything before the game started or did this opinion develop partway through?You're misunderstanding again, but you gave me an easy way to explain it, at least. Yes, before the game started. Because this is a game of mafia where I don't believe anything anyone says. It's actually not somewhere I've gone, it was the starting point.
I had written more but I changed my mind because every part of your post is just so goddamn disingenuous and I was starting to rant. I think I'll take webadict's advice, even if he does turn out to be scum, and just let it be. I think everyone can tell that you're willfully misunderstanding.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 03:03:28 pm
I'm, honestly going to keep my vote on webadict right now. I feel they're trying to control the narrative.Please show which game I don't try to control the narrative?
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 03:10:41 pm
Sometimes, in order to understand a mind frame, seeing how far they'll take it will tell you a lot. In this particular case, Max looks like he wanted to see who was actually in for a No Elim. To me, that's not scummy behavior, but if you think he was actually for a No Elim, then that's what you should be trying to prove. However, I don't really see it. The best you could argue is that he made an an argument and tried to get everyone on board with it slyly, but that's gonna involve you understanding Max's mindset here.I don't think he was for a No-lynch. I don't think he cares about the lynch result either way. If you want to know how that furthers the scum wincon, joining bandwagons is generally a way that scum players try to avoid suspicion. The only thing unusual about this one is that it was for a No-lynch rather than a player, but the concept is the same. That's why I think he played it off as him baiting (checks notes)... Jim, somehow... when it was obvious that most players weren't in favour of it.
The point of me asking how it furthers scum wincon is what's going to persuade me the most.
Max
I'm not forced to engage with you at all, dude. I could, like, leave. Like Jim has!QuoteIn terms of "refusing to directly engage with you", how so? I've responded to you a couple times now.
What I actually said was that you refuse to engage with me further than you're forced to. I'll add 'blatantly misrepresents the accusations against him' to the list though.
Please tell me that you understand that openly ignoring someone's questions would be scummy as hell.
Quote
QuoteYou're misunderstanding again, but you gave me an easy way to explain it, at least. Yes, before the game started. Because this is a game of mafia where I don't believe anything anyone says. It's actually not somewhere I've gone, it was the starting point.
So we've gone from you having generic 'bad vibes' to you being willing to believe Webadict's opinion about me being town-ish despite him being one of your scum reads to you not being able to believe a word I say. Did you figure out there was no point in asking me anything before the game started or did this opinion develop partway through?
And yet you have no problem asking other people questions. And so we circle back around to you outsourcing your scum hunting to people you've said you don't trust rather than actually engaging with the person you're suspicious of.
Quote
I had written more but I changed my mind because every part of your post is just so goddamn disingenuous and I was starting to rant. I think I'll take webadict's advice, even if he does turn out to be scum, and just let it be. I think everyone can tell that you're willfully misunderstanding.Maybe if you keep saying I'm misrepresenting you people will just believe it without you substantiating the claim.
Everyone else In case it's not clear, I'd like to lynch Maximum Spin tomorrow.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 03:13:36 pm
Please tell me that you understand that openly ignoring someone's questions would be scummy as hell.Ha ha ha, no, see, this is the point, you just haven't played with me before. I basically always do that.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 03:15:37 pm
I'm, honestly going to keep my vote on webadict right now. I feel they're trying to control the narrative.If Web is town I think he's probably right on who scum are.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 03:19:47 pm
I'm, honestly going to keep my vote on webadict right now. I feel they're trying to control the narrative.From a practical standpoint, I'm voting no Lynch because I don't think there's enough time left to get Max lynched. From the original plan though:
Well I was. Dues, can you give a solid rundown on why No Lynch is the currect move here? Put it out like we're new to the game, way back when.
We have seven players today. You have a kill. Scum team has a kill. If we no lynch and you don't kill someone tonight we start tomorrow with six players. The practical effect of having seven players and having six players is identical, since we lose the game at four players just the same as three. We're also statistically more likely to lynch/kill scum at six players rather than seven. This plan was made based on the impression I got from Toony that you were going to shoot someone no matter what though.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 03:20:06 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 03:21:15 pm
You claiming to be bad at the game isn't actually a defence.Please tell me that you understand that openly ignoring someone's questions would be scummy as hell.Ha ha ha, no, see, this is the point, you just haven't played with me before. I basically always do that.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 03:33:12 pm
In fact, please show a game where I allow players to fight for no reason, and I turn out to be scum. Or, really, explain to me how I'm controlling the narrative in a negative way? Do you believe I should let players argue the entire thread instead of being "controlling"? I am, as always, at a loss for how when you use the logic in its opposite fashion. I do congratulate you that you are correct, I am, in fact, attempting to control discussion so that we don't get stuck at nothing, and yet... you don't identify that as a positive aspect, and I cannot identify why.I'm, honestly going to keep my vote on webadict right now. I feel they're trying to control the narrative.Please show which game I don't try to control the narrative?
@Deus Asmoth: If you want to vote out Max, then you're doing a bad job at it. The more you are fighting over nothing, the more I don't want to vote him out, and the more I'll probably defend him.
I don't think he was for a No-lynch. I don't think he cares about the lynch result either way. If you want to know how that furthers the scum wincon, joining bandwagons is generally a way that scum players try to avoid suspicion. The only thing unusual about this one is that it was for a No-lynch rather than a player, but the concept is the same. That's why I think he played it off as him baiting (checks notes)... Jim, somehow... when it was obvious that most players weren't in favour of it.Oh boy... Where to start...
Joining a bandwagon isn't inherently scummy. In fact, it's one of the only ways to actually win as a Town player. But, that's not really what Maximum Spin is doing. If anything, I'm the one that's bandwagoning, and that's really loosely using the term. Voting people for no reason is scummy, yes, but it's (1) Day 1, so there's a lot of leeway on what's acceptable, (2) NOT joining a bandwagon for no reason at all, and (3) expressing an idea for something that you explicitly believe is the correct decision. Are you saying that joining what you think is the right decision is wrong? No, of course you're not. So, you must instead point out that the motivations behind that decision are wrong. His actions don't look like they have ill intent, so I don't think this is a viable method to attack Max.
Please stop.
I have literally public acknowledged ignoring entire players as Town, I don't see this as a viable method of attack on Max. Not because he's doing that, but because you're egging him on for no reason, and he's actively trying to de-escalate.You claiming to be bad at the game isn't actually a defence.Please tell me that you understand that openly ignoring someone's questions would be scummy as hell.Ha ha ha, no, see, this is the point, you just haven't played with me before. I basically always do that.
Please stop.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 03:40:19 pm
Quote
@Deus Asmoth: If you want to vote out Max, then you're doing a bad job at it. The more you are fighting over nothing, the more I don't want to vote him out, and the more I'll probably defend him.You're free to do whatever you want. I'd appreciate it if you don't pretend that I'm fighting over nothing when all I've done so far is point out why I think Tric is scum and respond to his non-answers.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 03:47:11 pm
Quote
I have literally public acknowledged ignoring entire players as Town, I don't see this as a viable method of attack on Max.
Have you publicly acknowledged your intent to ignore players you've never played with before while asking other players (who you claim to think are scum) what you should think of them?
Quote
Not because he's doing that, but because you're egging him on for no reason, and he's actively trying to de-escalate.Explain to me how this isn't you just making shit up? The first thing I've said that I would consider even coming close to egging him on is saying he's bad at the game for using his meta of doing something I would consider bad play as a defence for when I said that his behaviour was scummy. I can't see a single instance of him attempting to de-escalate either, mainly since he was the only one escalating to begin with.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 03:50:21 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 03:52:51 pm
Quote
Joining a bandwagon isn't inherently scummy. In fact, it's one of the only ways to actually win as a Town player. But, that's not really what Maximum Spin is doing. If anything, I'm the one that's bandwagoning, and that's really loosely using the term. Voting people for no reason is scummy, yes, but it's (1) Day 1, so there's a lot of leeway on what's acceptable, (2) NOT joining a bandwagon for no reason at all, and (3) expressing an idea for something that you explicitly believe is the correct decision. Are you saying that joining what you think is the right decision is wrong? No, of course you're not. So, you must instead point out that the motivations behind that decision are wrong. His actions don't look like they have ill intent, so I don't think this is a viable method to attack Max.
I can only assume you're intentionally misrepresenting what happened here, and I'm not sure why you're doing that. Max has explicitly claimed he was lying about wanting to No-lynch, so either he was lying then or he's lying now. Either way, it's not possible for you to honestly argue that he was joining a movement that he believed was correct.
If you're accepting the claim that him joining to idea of a No-lynch was somehow a bait for Jim then I'd really like it if you'd explain how that makes an iota of sense.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 03:54:46 pm
If you're accepting the claim that him joining to idea of a No-lynch was somehow a bait for Jim then I'd really like it if you'd explain how that makes an iota of sense.Web said "for Jim". I said it was a bait for anyone.
It does sound like you're chainsawing for Jim now though.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 04:02:13 pm
Just vote for me then, and I'll actively ignore you. I don't really care for what you're trying to prove because I think you're working off faulty assumptions. Do you have someone else that you think is scum? Because, while I'm not going to assume Max can't be scum, I really don't think he is, and I'd really like it if we could focus a bit more on Jim.
If you actually don't care about working with me, just vote me, then. I'm trying to get people to converge on possible votes. But, I'm going to be actively against voting Max Today, and if you want to flip me to prove I'm Town, I, rather honestly, don't care enough to stop anyone because, eh, everyone needs to learn that my meta cannot be defined.
I'm always down for some tied votes, too. The Mafia could pick between me and Jim, for example! I'd be down for that. I like seeing what the Mafia pick, ya know?
@Max: Please stop.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 04:02:25 pm
Really? Because I would have said it's more like you and Webadict are chainsawing for each other.If you're accepting the claim that him joining to idea of a No-lynch was somehow a bait for Jim then I'd really like it if you'd explain how that makes an iota of sense.Web said "for Jim". I said it was a bait for anyone.
It does sound like you're chainsawing for Jim now though.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 04:05:04 pm
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2022, 04:07:11 pm
Webadict I'd rather if you actually responded to the things I asked you.Good luck getting webadict to do that.
To web, that was mostly my thoughts at the time. So I posted them.
So.. Max, Jim, or Dues, which would you suggest Asmoth?
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 04:07:38 pm
@Max: Please stop.Yeah. Okay. Should I switch back to Jim? I'm comfortable voting out either today.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 04:09:26 pm
Are you asking if I want you to shoot me? No, that's OK thanks. You can shoot Max though.Webadict I'd rather if you actually responded to the things I asked you.Good luck getting webadict to do that.
To web, that was mostly my thoughts at the time. So I posted them.
So.. Max, Jim, or Dues, which would you suggest Asmoth?
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 05:02:07 pm
Webadict I'd rather if you actually responded to the things I asked you.What did you ask me?
What did you ask me?Webadict I'd rather if you actually responded to the things I asked you.Good luck getting webadict to do that.
To web, that was mostly my thoughts at the time. So I posted them.
So.. Max, Jim, or Dues, which would you suggest Asmoth?
Also, please feel free to shoot either me or Deus. I do not care which one.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 05:11:09 pm
Go look yourself, I know you can read.Webadict I'd rather if you actually responded to the things I asked you.What did you ask me?
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 05:14:39 pm
I obviously can't because I don't know which things you think I haven't responded to.Go look yourself, I know you can read.Webadict I'd rather if you actually responded to the things I asked you.What did you ask me?
Post by: Mamobo on December 24, 2022, 05:22:04 pm
------------------------
-> TricMagic --2-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8437701#msg8437701), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438587#msg8438587),
Deus Asmoth --1-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438918#msg8438918),
Jim Groovester --1-- webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438887#msg8438887),
webadict --1-- TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438581#msg8438581),
Knightwing64 --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
-> No One --2-- Deus Asmoth* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438463#msg8438463), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438861#msg8438861),
Not Voting --0--
4 to Hammer. Day ends on December 24, 2022 at 18:30 Central Standard Time (2 hours and 7 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, the Mafia chooses the execution target.
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2022, 05:23:09 pm
Times ticking down.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 05:24:07 pm
Follow up for WebadictQuoteI have literally public acknowledged ignoring entire players as Town, I don't see this as a viable method of attack on Max.
Have you publicly acknowledged your intent to ignore players you've never played with before while asking other players (who you claim to think are scum) what you should think of them?QuoteNot because he's doing that, but because you're egging him on for no reason, and he's actively trying to de-escalate.Explain to me how this isn't you just making shit up? The first thing I've said that I would consider even coming close to egging him on is saying he's bad at the game for using his meta of doing something I would consider bad play as a defence for when I said that his behaviour was scummy. I can't see a single instance of him attempting to de-escalate either, mainly since he was the only one escalating to begin with.
Further follow up for WebadictQuoteJoining a bandwagon isn't inherently scummy. In fact, it's one of the only ways to actually win as a Town player. But, that's not really what Maximum Spin is doing. If anything, I'm the one that's bandwagoning, and that's really loosely using the term. Voting people for no reason is scummy, yes, but it's (1) Day 1, so there's a lot of leeway on what's acceptable, (2) NOT joining a bandwagon for no reason at all, and (3) expressing an idea for something that you explicitly believe is the correct decision. Are you saying that joining what you think is the right decision is wrong? No, of course you're not. So, you must instead point out that the motivations behind that decision are wrong. His actions don't look like they have ill intent, so I don't think this is a viable method to attack Max.
I can only assume you're intentionally misrepresenting what happened here, and I'm not sure why you're doing that. Max has explicitly claimed he was lying about wanting to No-lynch, so either he was lying then or he's lying now. Either way, it's not possible for you to honestly argue that he was joining a movement that he believed was correct.
If you're accepting the claim that him joining to idea of a No-lynch was somehow a bait for Jim then I'd really like it if you'd explain how that makes an iota of sense.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 05:25:22 pm
Dues Asmoth
Times ticking down.
I'm genuinely at a loss about what you want from me here, or if you even want anything.
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2022, 05:32:51 pm
Tric:Mostly for a decision to be made one way or the other. Even if you lynch me, it's better than running down the clock. Or not lynching anyone in the first place, who voted says a lot about the mafia. And why.Dues Asmoth
Times ticking down.
I'm genuinely at a loss about what you want from me here, or if you even want anything.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 05:42:22 pm
I'm not voting Tric but I'll vote someone to prevent a tie if I have to.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 05:42:56 pm
If you want a real answer to them, then I'll ask that you stop attacking literally everyone that questions you because all you're doing is stealing everyone's attention and accomplishing nothing. I should know. I do it a lot.
Have you publicly acknowledged your intent to ignore players you've never played with before while asking other players (who you claim to think are scum) what you should think of them?Yes. Hydra Mafia on the MU forums with Vector and 4maskwolf. There were several groups I was unfamiliar with that I had to take several people's opinions on, and thus ignorring them completely was the optimal strategy.
He's doing a terrible job at de-escalating, but you're doing a much worse job at de-escalating. But, that doesn't mean he's not trying to de-escalate.QuoteNot because he's doing that, but because you're egging him on for no reason, and he's actively trying to de-escalate.Explain to me how this isn't you just making shit up? The first thing I've said that I would consider even coming close to egging him on is saying he's bad at the game for using his meta of doing something I would consider bad play as a defence for when I said that his behaviour was scummy. I can't see a single instance of him attempting to de-escalate either, mainly since he was the only one escalating to begin with.
Cool. I don't care if he was lying about wanting a No Elim. Wanting a No Elim doesn't make him scum. Not wanting a No Elim doesn't making him scum. Lying about either of them doesn't make him scum. The only thing that makes someone scum is that their reasons for doing any of these try to make a Town win less likely.QuoteJoining a bandwagon isn't inherently scummy. In fact, it's one of the only ways to actually win as a Town player. But, that's not really what Maximum Spin is doing. If anything, I'm the one that's bandwagoning, and that's really loosely using the term. Voting people for no reason is scummy, yes, but it's (1) Day 1, so there's a lot of leeway on what's acceptable, (2) NOT joining a bandwagon for no reason at all, and (3) expressing an idea for something that you explicitly believe is the correct decision. Are you saying that joining what you think is the right decision is wrong? No, of course you're not. So, you must instead point out that the motivations behind that decision are wrong. His actions don't look like they have ill intent, so I don't think this is a viable method to attack Max.I can only assume you're intentionally misrepresenting what happened here, and I'm not sure why you're doing that. Max has explicitly claimed he was lying about wanting to No-lynch, so either he was lying then or he's lying now. Either way, it's not possible for you to honestly argue that he was joining a movement that he believed was correct.
If you're accepting the claim that him joining to idea of a No-lynch was somehow a bait for Jim then I'd really like it if you'd explain how that makes an iota of sense.
My argument was instead that you can't argue against people joining you on your bandwagon unless you don't believe in it, and if you don't believe in it, you're basically guilty of the exact thing you're arguing he's guilty of. Projection is much worse in my eyes. Also, I'm the one that said Jim because I quickly read the context and misinterpreted it because I really didn't think the core of your argument was worth looking into, and now that you've made me delve deeper into it, I'm more likely to side with Maximum Spin, so it must've been a bad argument.
I'm not scum, and I'm not here to vote you out wantonly. If I wanted that, I'd just push for your elimination. Or disappear. I don't have to be here, arguing with you. Maximum Spin doesn't have to be here, arguing with you. You don't have to be here, arguing with us. But, I'm trying to find scum. I think you are less likely to be scum than Jim Groovester, but not by a whole lot right now. If you think I'm scum, then that doesn't matter to you. But, look at everyone turning on you and reconsider that maybe I'm actually Town and maybe I actually do want to win.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 05:44:06 pm
PFPI don't really care if there is a tie, frankly, but I'll do my best to avoid one for the most part.
I'm not voting Tric but I'll vote someone to prevent a tie if I have to.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 05:47:21 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 05:49:37 pm
I'm pretty sure we should not tie, although tying an actual mafia member with No Lynch and forcing the scum to pick would be kind of funny.That would be funny.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 05:51:03 pm
I'm pretty sure we should not tie, although tying an actual mafia member with No Lynch and forcing the scum to pick would be kind of funny.Or tying two Mafia members.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 05:52:47 pm
... What?Tric:Mostly for a decision to be made one way or the other. Even if you lynch me, it's better than running down the clock. Or not lynching anyone in the first place, who voted says a lot about the mafia. And why.Dues Asmoth
Times ticking down.
I'm genuinely at a loss about what you want from me here, or if you even want anything.
Webadict the only thing that's annoying me here is you insistence on misrepresenting everything I do. How am I attacking 'everyone who questions me' when even among the people you're pretending that I've attacked, you're the only one who actually asked me anything? How is asking you to explain your overt lies unreasonable of me?
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 05:55:02 pm
NOTE: In the event of a tie, the Mafia chooses the execution target.
Everyone Do not end the day on a tie.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 24, 2022, 05:56:42 pm
Why are we voting them, exactly?
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 05:59:40 pm
Webadict the only thing that's annoying me here is you insistence on misrepresenting everything I do. How am I attacking 'everyone who questions me' when even among the people you're pretending that I've attacked, you're the only one who actually asked me anything? How is asking you to explain your overt lies unreasonable of me?Because you're calling them overt lies. It's entirely reasonable for me to misunderstand things. It's entirely reasonable for me to misspeak. I don't think I'm overtly lying in this case, so I'll need a better idea of what you think I'm lying about here.
I'm trying to get you to refocus your attention, here, because it's going in the wrong direction. Would you like to work together to figure this out? It's entirely possible to work together on this without being hostile. Doesn't that sound better? Or is that not a possibility for you? I'm just here to look for Town players.
Sorry for not being able to post much, but Deus just seems like a particularly zealous town member.Only Tric and Max are, though I know Max will likely switch to Jim if given a situation to do so.
Why are we voting them, exactly?
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 06:02:10 pm
Sorry for not being able to post much, but Deus just seems like a particularly zealous town member.I don't think I agree, but I might have a particular tendency to find his playstyle scummy. Either way, who would you prefer to vote?
Why are we voting them, exactly?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 24, 2022, 06:04:44 pm
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 06:08:59 pm
JiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimSorry for not being able to post much, but Deus just seems like a particularly zealous town member.I don't think I agree, but I might have a particular tendency to find his playstyle scummy. Either way, who would you prefer to vote?
Why are we voting them, exactly?
Groooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooovesteeeeer
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 06:10:07 pm
Webadict the only thing that's annoying me here is you insistence on misrepresenting everything I do. How am I attacking 'everyone who questions me' when even among the people you're pretending that I've attacked, you're the only one who actually asked me anything? How is asking you to explain your overt lies unreasonable of me?Because you're calling them overt lies. It's entirely reasonable for me to misunderstand things. It's entirely reasonable for me to misspeak. I don't think I'm overtly lying in this case, so I'll need a better idea of what you think I'm lying about here.
You mean apart from the stuff I literally just pointed out in the post you're responding to? Sure, but I'm not editing all of that together till tomorrow.
Quote
I'm trying to get you to refocus your attention, here, because it's going in the wrong direction. Would you like to work together to figure this out? It's entirely possible to work together on this without being hostile. Doesn't that sound better? Or is that not a possibility for you? I'm just here to look for Town players.
Give me an argument for who you think is scum if you actually have one. I'm happy with my attention where it is.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 06:16:40 pm
... You're literally voting no one, and tomorrow your hope is to vote Maximum Spin. You understand how bad that looks, right?QuoteI'm trying to get you to refocus your attention, here, because it's going in the wrong direction. Would you like to work together to figure this out? It's entirely possible to work together on this without being hostile. Doesn't that sound better? Or is that not a possibility for you? I'm just here to look for Town players.
Give me an argument for who you think is scum if you actually have one. I'm happy with my attention where it is.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 06:17:09 pm
No clue. I barely skimmed the past couple pages, and I don’t have much time online today. so I’m looking for a debrief and a general “what are we doing”Vote no lynch
Or anybody besides Tric
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 06:20:53 pm
Give me an argument for who you think is scum if you actually have one.Okay. I'm not gonna do that. Not because I can't, but because it's not gonna get me anywhere that I wanna be.
Suppose, in your hypothetical, that Maximum Spin dies Tonight and flips Town. Who is scum?
Suppose, again hypothetically, that I die Tonight and flip Town. Who is scum?
Just do that for everyone real quickly and see where it goes. I just want to see what your backup scum picks are.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 06:24:02 pm
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 06:24:52 pm
I have to vote Deus here to break the tie but I don't really want to, bleh.You have an hour. You're fine.
Post by: Mamobo on December 24, 2022, 06:25:12 pm
------------------------
-> Deus Asmoth --2-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438918#msg8438918), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438961#msg8438961),
-> TricMagic --2-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8437701#msg8437701), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438587#msg8438587),
Jim Groovester --1-- webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438887#msg8438887),
Knightwing64 --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
webadict --0--
-> No One --2-- Deus Asmoth* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438463#msg8438463), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438861#msg8438861),
Not Voting --0--
4 to Hammer. Day ends on December 24, 2022 at 18:30 Central Standard Time (1 hour and 4 minutes remaining.)
NOTE: In the event of a tie, the Mafia chooses the execution target.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 06:25:56 pm
I'm voting Deus soon if nobody moves. I guess that's okay.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 06:26:29 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 06:27:48 pm
There's an hour left??Lol, yeah. Default forum time doesn't change for DST, did that throw you off?
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 06:34:37 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 06:35:48 pm
Pretend I don't. Explain how it looks.... You're literally voting no one, and tomorrow your hope is to vote Maximum Spin. You understand how bad that looks, right?QuoteI'm trying to get you to refocus your attention, here, because it's going in the wrong direction. Would you like to work together to figure this out? It's entirely possible to work together on this without being hostile. Doesn't that sound better? Or is that not a possibility for you? I'm just here to look for Town players.
Give me an argument for who you think is scum if you actually have one. I'm happy with my attention where it is.
... You're literally RVSing Jim and are refusing to present any actual information after asking to work together. You understand how that looks, right?Give me an argument for who you think is scum if you actually have one.Okay. I'm not gonna do that. Not because I can't, but because it's not gonna get me anywhere that I wanna be.
Suppose, in your hypothetical, that Maximum Spin dies Tonight and flips Town. Who is scum?
Suppose, again hypothetically, that I die Tonight and flip Town. Who is scum?
Just do that for everyone real quickly and see where it goes. I just want to see what your backup scum picks are.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 06:49:31 pm
... You're literally RVSing Jim and are refusing to present any actual information after asking to work together. You understand how that looks, right?I mean, obviously I'm Town, that's really easy for me.
TricMagic is Town, somehow, I guess? It's weird, but I kinda have to accept it.
Knightwing is Town because of his interactions with TricMagic.
Maximum Spin is Town because his play has been focused on scumhunting.
ToonyMan is Town because I just kinda have to accept that he's Town for now. I'll just wear a helmet inside the hazard zones.
That leaves two people left: You and Jim.
There's two factors that work in favor of such a pairing. The first is that it's been hard to pinpoint anybody as outrageously scummy. This typically means it's someone in the experienced players, you, or the missing players. This would be me, Max, Toony, Jim, and you, Deus. I know I'm safe, so that doesn't matter. I'm 95% sure on Max being safe, so I'm okay removing him. I have to accept that Toony is safe because he asked for me to Protect him Tonight. This leaves you and Jim. Now, to ensure these, I also re-examined TricMagic and Knightwing. TricMagic has a high degree of uncertainty, but he can't be Mafia. Knightwing, on the other hand, has others backing him up, and his interactions with TricMagic seem very Town.
So, given that, Deus, I either vote you or him. I assume that you could assume that either I'm scum or that he's scum from that. I mean, it's hard for me to prove I'm not scum to other people, but I'd like to assume that my contributions would show a pro-Town bend, especially as I'm trying to be as truthful as I can be here. But, in the end, it feels like I have to vote Jim Groovester here or accept that it's Max + Toony. I really don't see another possibility if you're Town.
Basically, Deus, if you're Town, I don't see how you can think it's not one of me or Jim here. That's a 50:50 shot! That's better than average odds!
I mean, you can't think that Jim's vote on TricMagic is well defended, can you?
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 06:57:12 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 06:59:34 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 07:00:37 pm
I kind of feel bad voting Jim here since he's away and Deus hasn't played in awhile, but those are the decisions you have to make.
I don't think Tric should shoot unless whoever dies today flips mafia.
Basically, Deus, I'm gonna vote you if you can't convince me you're Town.Quite a predicament this puts Deus in I would say, what can Deus do I wonder?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 07:01:39 pm
Then vote for me and stop trying to pretend I forced you into doing it. I already think you're scum.Want to roleclaim? It could help dissuade people.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 07:03:01 pm
Quite a predicament this puts Deus in I would say, what can Deus do I wonder?Claiming and/or Voting Jim Groovester would probably be his best ideas. I feel like he might realize he's in a no-win situation, but I sort of have to force that decision on him...
I agree, it sucks, but yes, I can't really see an alternative that works as well.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 07:03:33 pm
I don't think Tric should shoot unless whoever dies today flips mafia.Let's spell it out. If whoever dies today DOES flip mafia, and it's either Deus or Jim, who do you say he should shoot? My money's on "the other one", but I wonder if you have some better plan.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 07:05:26 pm
Sure. I'm a cop and I'm going to inspect Webadict tonight.Then vote for me and stop trying to pretend I forced you into doing it. I already think you're scum.Want to roleclaim? It could help dissuade people.
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2022, 07:06:25 pm
TricThat's not really a reaction. Just a question on what I'm talking about? Use your words Asmoth!... What?Tric:Mostly for a decision to be made one way or the other. Even if you lynch me, it's better than running down the clock. Or not lynching anyone in the first place, who voted says a lot about the mafia. And why.Dues Asmoth
Times ticking down.
I'm genuinely at a loss about what you want from me here, or if you even want anything.
... K, just for that I'm shooting you.Sure. I'm a cop and I'm going to inspect Webadict tonight.Then vote for me and stop trying to pretend I forced you into doing it. I already think you're scum.Want to roleclaim? It could help dissuade people.
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2022, 07:07:23 pm
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 07:09:05 pm
Wonderful! That means voting Jim Groovester would be the best thing you can do to ensure that, no? Or would you rather vote me? Both of those are valid strategies here!Sure. I'm a cop and I'm going to inspect Webadict tonight.Then vote for me and stop trying to pretend I forced you into doing it. I already think you're scum.Want to roleclaim? It could help dissuade people.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 07:10:47 pm
I guess we do vote Jim now if no one counters.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 07:11:35 pm
Or you can vote to No-lynch.Wonderful! That means voting Jim Groovester would be the best thing you can do to ensure that, no? Or would you rather vote me? Both of those are valid strategies here!Sure. I'm a cop and I'm going to inspect Webadict tonight.Then vote for me and stop trying to pretend I forced you into doing it. I already think you're scum.Want to roleclaim? It could help dissuade people.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 07:15:54 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 07:18:46 pm
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 07:21:18 pm
Spoiler: blursed (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 07:23:43 pm
Deus Asmoth
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 07:24:29 pm
The question is whether Deus doesn't want to vote Jim because he really likes the no lynch plan, or because he cares about Jim.The answer is that 'vote Jim because Webadict said so' is not a compelling argument.
Why?Because you've given me literally no reason to, and several reasons not to trust your vote choice.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 07:24:57 pm
Oh. Never mind. I still want to say the thing about the spoiler, though.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 07:25:25 pm
*sigh* I don't want Toony to freak out, so I'll move here unless you swap to Jim Groovester.Not voting a cop claim.
Deus Asmoth
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 07:26:16 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 07:26:55 pm
Max will probably join tooCan confirm.
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 07:27:40 pm
I... gave you a compelling list of why I thought everyone else was Town. Is that not good enough for you?The question is whether Deus doesn't want to vote Jim because he really likes the no lynch plan, or because he cares about Jim.The answer is that 'vote Jim because Webadict said so' is not a compelling argument.
Why?Because you've given me literally no reason to, and several reasons not to trust your vote choice.
I understand from a Town perspective why you could assume I'm scum from that, but in terms of staying alive, it's a great incentive to vote Jim. If you're not that worried, then vote me. To me, it seems like you think I'm Town, which, good news, I am. But, if you don't vote me.
Coward.*sigh* I don't want Toony to freak out, so I'll move here unless you swap to Jim Groovester.Not voting a cop claim.
Deus Asmoth
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 07:28:55 pm
Come on Deus vote Jim and I'll switch. Web and Max will probably join too and you stay alive.You know what? Sure, let's see how that goes.
Jim
Post by: Mamobo on December 24, 2022, 07:28:58 pm
------------------------
-> Deus Asmoth --3-- Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438918#msg8438918), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438961#msg8438961), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439044#msg8439044),
TricMagic --2-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8437701#msg8437701), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438587#msg8438587),
Jim Groovester --1-- Deus Asmoth* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439051#msg8439051),
Knightwing64 --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
webadict --0--
No One --1-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438861#msg8438861),
Not Voting --0--
4 to Hammer. Day ends on December 24, 2022 at 18:30 Central Standard Time (0 hours and 0 minutes remaining.)
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 07:29:36 pm
Jim
Post by: webadict on December 24, 2022, 07:29:42 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 24, 2022, 07:29:45 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 24, 2022, 07:31:05 pm
I... gave you a compelling list of why I thought everyone else was Town. Is that not good enough for you?The question is whether Deus doesn't want to vote Jim because he really likes the no lynch plan, or because he cares about Jim.The answer is that 'vote Jim because Webadict said so' is not a compelling argument.
Why?Because you've given me literally no reason to, and several reasons not to trust your vote choice.
You gave me a list. Compelling isn't the word I would use for it.
[quoteI understand from a Town perspective why you could assume I'm scum from that, but in terms of staying alive, it's a great incentive to vote Jim. If you're not that worried, then vote me. To me, it seems like you think I'm Town, which, good news, I am. But, if you don't vote me.[/quote]
How does me explicitly saying that I think you're scum give you the impression that I think you're town?
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 24, 2022, 07:42:16 pm
Wish 'lynch the person who isn't here' wasn't current site meta.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 24, 2022, 09:51:42 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 24, 2022, 10:02:54 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 24, 2022, 10:13:14 pm
Not exactly what I wanted. But…
Actually....
Knightwing's Heir is given the grovelling soul that you know as Jim.
However, after comparing this person's face with advanced facial recognition/reconstruction software, it's actually TRIC
Congratulations Town! You killed mafia!
Spoiler: Jim's Role was: (click to show/hide)
Night has begun. I can give an Extra Special 48 hours if nobody wants to play on Christmas, otherwise get your results in ASAP and I'll run them when able.
@Web: Could you run Mambo to do a votecount?
Post by: Mamobo on December 24, 2022, 10:17:53 pm
------------------------
-> Jim Groovester --4-- Deus Asmoth* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439051#msg8439051), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439053#msg8439053), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439054#msg8439054), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439055#msg8439055),
TricMagic --2-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8437701#msg8437701), Knightwing64* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438587#msg8438587),
Deus Asmoth --1-- TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8438961#msg8438961),
Knightwing64 --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
ToonyMan --0--
webadict --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --0--
4 to Hammer. Day ends on December 24, 2022 at 18:30 Central Standard Time (-2 hours and -47 minutes remaining.)
Post by: EuchreJack on December 25, 2022, 11:23:15 am
Post by: EuchreJack on December 26, 2022, 06:11:13 pm
You all gather to assist Knightwing's Heir in tracking down Jack and/or Jim. Except Toonyman.
At first, you all think Toonyman might have overslept. But he's not breathing.
ToonyMan is Dead. ToonyMan was Town.
Toonyman was Tracker Oliverz144
Tracker Spirit of Oliverz144. Each night you can track ONE player and find out whom they visited.
Votecount:
Maximum Spin
TricMagic
Knightwing64
webadict
Deus Asmoth
No One
Not voting: Maximum Spin, TricMagic, Knightwing64, webadict, Deus Asmoth
3 to Hammer
Day Ends on December 29th, 2022 at 6:15pm EST. Time remaining: 72 hours, 4 minute.
Post by: TricMagic on December 26, 2022, 06:15:09 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 26, 2022, 06:20:34 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 06:27:09 pm
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 07:54:17 pm
Web, what did you do last night?Nothing.
I might've lied about being a Doctor.
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 08:10:15 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 08:24:37 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 08:33:21 pm
Tric, did you do anything last night?
Knightwing, how about you?
And you, Deus?
Because unless one of you tells me an unexpected story, I know web isn't the killer.
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 08:35:11 pm
Do you want to explain that in a way that doesn't involve posting a read list where every result reads 'Town I guess lol'?Are you saying that I'm scum?
Okay, well, whatever.I mean, it should be pretty obvious I'm not a killer, but I also think it should be pretty obvious that you're not either.
Tric, did you do anything last night?
Knightwing, how about you?
And you, Deus?
Because unless one of you tells me an unexpected story, I know web isn't the killer.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 08:45:05 pm
I mean, it should be pretty obvious I'm not a killer, but I also think it should be pretty obvious that you're not either.I didn't really think you were, but you were the only one I felt like I could justifiably use my action on. I mean, I wanted to use it on Deus, but he had his whole cop claim thing he apparently forgot about already, so I didn't want to screw it up if it were actually true.
Unless Tric has pulled off a master gambit, it looks like it's between Deus and Knightwing. And, well, I don't really think it's Knightwing.
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 08:52:15 pm
Agreed. I'm 95% on it being Deus, 5% on it being Knightwing, and like .1% that it's somehow you. I'd say it could be TricMagic... but, like, can it?I mean, it should be pretty obvious I'm not a killer, but I also think it should be pretty obvious that you're not either.I didn't really think you were, but you were the only one I felt like I could justifiably use my action on. I mean, I wanted to use it on Deus, but he had his whole cop claim thing he apparently forgot about already, so I didn't want to screw it up if it were actually true.
Unless Tric has pulled off a master gambit, it looks like it's between Deus and Knightwing. And, well, I don't really think it's Knightwing.
Anyway, I have nothing to hide anymore. I'm Bulletproof. I can't be killed. It's why I didn't really care if TricMagic shot me last Night. I knew I should've gone for a smaller claim, but I'm just too much of a big spender.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 08:57:46 pm
I'm saying you're playing like a lunatic and I don't know why.Do you want to explain that in a way that doesn't involve posting a read list where every result reads 'Town I guess lol'?Are you saying that I'm scum?
In any case, as far as I can make out the only player who could reasonably be scum is Knightwing. Forcing a policy lynch on Jim doesn't make any sense for Webadict to do if they were on the same team, and killing Toony when he'd already signed over his free will to Webadict wouldn't make any sense for either Webadict or Max to do. It also wouldn't make sense for me to do as scum, but I already know that pointing that out is a waste of effort from me. I also know that there are plenty of WIFOM arguments you can make against those conclusions, but the fact of the matter is that it's completely counterproductive for any of the players I mentioned to kill the one town member who didn't want any of us dead.
Post by: TricMagic on December 26, 2022, 09:30:39 pm
Already answered your question Max.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 09:37:18 pm
Already answered your question Max.You didn't technically, you just said you didn't shoot. I don't know if you can do anything else. :P
But since it looks like webadict knows what I did, it follows that nobody misdirected me anyway.
Deus, in that case, would you consent to be lynched if Tric agrees to shoot Knightwing immediately afterward if the game does not end?
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 09:44:01 pm
Townhunting is a legitimate strategy for finding scum. It can be used to create a Process of Elimination (PoE) on who scum can be. ToonyMan was listed as "lol, cuz" because he's legitimately that good and sometimes, I have to take a risk on assuming he's Town or scum because if I don't, I'll be stuck in an endless battle of wondering if he's Town or scum. I'm actually fine with ToonyMan being dead because it verifies that he's Town, although he was just about as confirmed as Max or I were from Yesterday's play.I'm saying you're playing like a lunatic and I don't know why.Do you want to explain that in a way that doesn't involve posting a read list where every result reads 'Town I guess lol'?Are you saying that I'm scum?
In any case, as far as I can make out the only player who could reasonably be scum is Knightwing. Forcing a policy lynch on Jim doesn't make any sense for Webadict to do if they were on the same team, and killing Toony when he'd already signed over his free will to Webadict wouldn't make any sense for either Webadict or Max to do. It also wouldn't make sense for me to do as scum, but I already know that pointing that out is a waste of effort from me. I also know that there are plenty of WIFOM arguments you can make against those conclusions, but the fact of the matter is that it's completely counterproductive for any of the players I mentioned to kill the one town member who didn't want any of us dead.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 09:48:03 pm
Already answered your question Max.You didn't technically, you just said you didn't shoot. I don't know if you can do anything else. :P
But since it looks like webadict knows what I did, it follows that nobody misdirected me anyway.
Deus, in that case, would you consent to be lynched if Tric agrees to shoot Knightwing immediately afterward if the game does not end?
Lynch me and then him, lynch me and kill him, no lynch and kill me and then kill him. I don't particularly care.
The only other scenario I can come up with that makes any sense is that Webadict is a Mafia-ally who misread Jim's alignment but correctly identified Max. I'm not willing to invest the effort necessary into pursuing that line of logic and then wrangling Tric into acting like a sane person long enough to put a lynch together.
Deus Asmoth
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 09:51:42 pm
None of this explains why your current theory that I'm scum directly contradicts most of what you said yesterday. It also doesn't explain the pointless antagonism you were doing, but I don't think either or us are interested in discussing that.Townhunting is a legitimate strategy for finding scum. It can be used to create a Process of Elimination (PoE) on who scum can be. ToonyMan was listed as "lol, cuz" because he's legitimately that good and sometimes, I have to take a risk on assuming he's Town or scum because if I don't, I'll be stuck in an endless battle of wondering if he's Town or scum. I'm actually fine with ToonyMan being dead because it verifies that he's Town, although he was just about as confirmed as Max or I were from Yesterday's play.I'm saying you're playing like a lunatic and I don't know why.Do you want to explain that in a way that doesn't involve posting a read list where every result reads 'Town I guess lol'?Are you saying that I'm scum?
In any case, as far as I can make out the only player who could reasonably be scum is Knightwing. Forcing a policy lynch on Jim doesn't make any sense for Webadict to do if they were on the same team, and killing Toony when he'd already signed over his free will to Webadict wouldn't make any sense for either Webadict or Max to do. It also wouldn't make sense for me to do as scum, but I already know that pointing that out is a waste of effort from me. I also know that there are plenty of WIFOM arguments you can make against those conclusions, but the fact of the matter is that it's completely counterproductive for any of the players I mentioned to kill the one town member who didn't want any of us dead.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 09:54:11 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 09:57:24 pm
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 10:07:14 pm
Web, I think I'm not going to vote until we hear from Knightwing. Deus actually agreeing to that plan makes me want to be careful.I mean, yeah, but the chance that it's him has increased to 99% because he forgot that he claimed Cop and hasn't posted inspection results.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 10:12:40 pm
There is that, lol.Web, I think I'm not going to vote until we hear from Knightwing. Deus actually agreeing to that plan makes me want to be careful.I mean, yeah, but the chance that it's him has increased to 99% because he forgot that he claimed Cop and hasn't posted inspection results.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 26, 2022, 10:18:38 pm
I didn’t do anything last night.
I have the Commuter Spirit of BluarianKnight. I have no abilities but I can’t be targeted by night actions, any actions that target me in any way shape or form fails and you get a blocked result.
I legitimately cannot be killed other then by a lynch.
Also, is there 3 mafias?
Because the title makes it seem like there’s three mafias. That might be bad.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 26, 2022, 10:22:04 pm
How did you come to the conclusion that I’m the only person that could reasonably be scum?
That makes no sense, none of us are hard cleared, anyone could be mafia. If the mod hasn’t outright stated someone is town, there’s room to doubt.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 10:24:29 pm
I honestly don't see any reason to post my inspection results. They're not useful and it's easier to just skip to the bit where I die.Web, I think I'm not going to vote until we hear from Knightwing. Deus actually agreeing to that plan makes me want to be careful.I mean, yeah, but the chance that it's him has increased to 99% because he forgot that he claimed Cop and hasn't posted inspection results.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 10:26:11 pm
AlsoI posted my reasons in the same post that your clearly read. If you have a problem with my logic you can explain it.
How did you come to the conclusion that I’m the only person that could reasonably be scum?
That makes no sense, none of us are hard cleared, anyone could be mafia. If the mod hasn’t outright stated someone is town, there’s room to doubt.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 26, 2022, 10:37:42 pm
Lynch me and then him, lynch me and kill him, no lynch and kill me and then kill him. I don't particularly care.
I'm not willing to invest the effort necessary into pursuing that line of logic and then wrangling Tric into acting like a sane person long enough to put a lynch together.
Deus Asmoth
For someone who claims to not care, you seem to be taking this particularly rough.
I honestly don't see any reason to post my inspection results. They're not useful and it's easier to just skip to the bit where I die.
This doesn’t explain why you forgot that you had even claimed cop in the first place, and you didn’t “post your inspection results” even when nobody was outright saying they sussed you.
Any sort of inspection is useful and saying otherwise isn’t very smart. If you are town, tell us the results so we have something to go off of if we lynch you.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 10:53:50 pm
You completely excluded to even mention Tric in your “reasoning” post, first of all.
Unless you have a bombshell to drop, Tric was confirmed via roleclaim yesterday. You might know that if you hadn't wasted the day trolling.
Quote
Lynch me and then him, lynch me and kill him, no lynch and kill me and then kill him. I don't particularly care.
I'm not willing to invest the effort necessary into pursuing that line of logic and then wrangling Tric into acting like a sane person long enough to put a lynch together.
Deus Asmoth
For someone who claims to not care, you seem to be taking this particularly rough.
There's a weird trend going on of people just projecting whatever feelings they want me to have onto me, regardless of the things I actually say or do. How is this me 'taking it rough', exactly?
Quote
I honestly don't see any reason to post my inspection results. They're not useful and it's easier to just skip to the bit where I die.
This doesn’t explain why you forgot that you had even claimed cop in the first place, and you didn’t “post your inspection results” even when nobody was outright saying they sussed you.
Any sort of inspection is useful and saying otherwise isn’t very smart. If you are town, tell us the results so we have something to go off of if we lynch you.
Jesus Christ, you people. OK, fine. Last night I inspected Toony, because Webadict and Tric were probably town as far as I was concerned and Max had already claimed Miller. That meant that it was a choice between you and him and I didn't think either of you were likely to be killed so I chose by coinflip. Turned out I was wrong about that.
Now, do you want to confirm that this was a complete waste of my time or are you going to surprise me?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 26, 2022, 10:59:07 pm
I think you’re taking this rough because you seem very passive aggressive. A lot more so then you started as. Therefore, I can make the assumption that the change in your tone is because this is affecting you more then you say.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 11:03:28 pm
Awfully convenient that you picked Toony.
Wow, the exact thing that I expected you to say is the thing that you said. Who could have seen this coming?
Quote
I think you’re taking this rough because you seem very passive aggressive. A lot more so then you started as. Therefore, I can make the assumption that the change in your tone is because this is affecting you more then you say.It's so cool how this is definitely true and I haven't said some variation of 'Tric is insane and it annoys me that I have to play around that' on multiple occasions.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 11:06:37 pm
please help
I'd like to clear up at least one thing. Web, are you being truthful in your latest roleclaim? I know you, so I have to wonder.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 26, 2022, 11:10:55 pm
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 11:12:12 pm
web100% truthful.
please help
I'd like to clear up at least one thing. Web, are you being truthful in your latest roleclaim? I know you, so I have to wonder.
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 11:13:05 pm
Deus Asmoth
If it's not him, it's TricMagic.
Post by: webadict on December 26, 2022, 11:21:09 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 26, 2022, 11:21:57 pm
It wasn’t a gradual buildup though, you just suddenly get more angry?I can't control the point at which you decide to project emotions onto me. If you have any actual response to the points that I've made feel free, I'm not inclined to debate your interpretation of my feelings.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 26, 2022, 11:28:41 pm
Max, just hammer. There's no point overthinking this.Okay. I was overthinking it because I feel like that is too much non-nightkillability to all be town-sided, but, I guess we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.
Deus Asmoth
Post by: Mamobo on December 26, 2022, 11:31:55 pm
------------------------
-> Deus Asmoth --3-- Deus Asmoth* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439666#msg8439666), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439700#msg8439700), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180540.msg8439705#msg8439705),
Knightwing64 --0--
Maximum Spin --0--
TricMagic --0--
webadict --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --2-- Knightwing64, TricMagic,
3 to Hammer. Day ends on December 24, 2022 at 18:30 Central Standard Time (-52 hours and -1 minutes remaining.)
Post by: TricMagic on December 27, 2022, 08:09:38 am
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 27, 2022, 08:20:10 am
Begone scrub
Post by: EuchreJack on December 27, 2022, 10:18:57 am
You bring Deus Asmoth before Knightwing's Heir for Ultimate Judgment. Knightwing's Heir grabs Deus by neck and whips out his scanner. Our Leather-clad Hero runs the scanner over Deus Asmoth's face, then suddenly drops Deus.
"Er, sorry Officer. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to kill you, as I can't have the Law stopping my Search for Justice."
With regret, Knightwing's Heir blasts Police Detective Lidku, finally ending the life of this promising young Townie.
Night 2 has begun. You have 24 hours, starting NOW.
End of Night: 12-28-22 @10:26 am.
Spoiler: Role (click to show/hide)
Note from the Mod: You have received word that Jack has skipped Town. Only one Mafia remains.
Post by: EuchreJack on December 27, 2022, 11:45:05 am
Day 3 begins:
You gather to resume the hunt, yet Webadict is clearly dead.
Spoiler: Webadict was Town (click to show/hide)
Survivors are:
Maximum Spin
TricMagic
Knightwing64
2 votes to Hammer, 72 hours, Day starts now, Day ends 12/30/22 @11:50 am.
Post by: TricMagic on December 27, 2022, 11:59:14 am
For all to see.
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 27, 2022, 12:27:03 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 27, 2022, 12:30:02 pm
I think it’s Tric. Do you agree, Max?
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 27, 2022, 12:37:03 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 12:46:13 pm
Well, upon further inspection…I agree.
I think it’s Tric. Do you agree, Max?
I tried to roleblock you, to see if you were telling the truth. It didn't work. Jim was ascetic; I don't believe mafia has two people who can't be targeted because that would be STUPID. And also make my role useless, even if you were just unblockable and not a full commuter (which would make two more roles useless).
I also strongly suspected web was me. Well, it was the only choice if he were telling the truth, since I knew he wasn't the OTHER guy who died first. I'm the Miller Spirit of Roden, trying to block the kills to prove his own innocence after being lynched d1. I also really like the idea of my spirit being bulletproof and doing nothing else, since ToonyMan always calls me selfish. :P
I also don't believe that a Spirit of Knightwing exists when the flavor seems to show Knightwing as an NPC.
So... TricMagic.
Might as well put an end to it, Knightwing.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 12:54:24 pm
This means that Jim and Tric were disguised as Tric and Jim.
A+, EuchreJack.
Post by: TricMagic on December 27, 2022, 01:04:17 pm
Post by: TricMagic on December 27, 2022, 01:06:57 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:08:26 pm
So on for an hour. Maxy Maxy Maxy. I killed web. Web was bulletproof. So he had to have been shot twice. Not once. So who fired the other shot?I noticed Jim had a superkill in BeBYOR1.
... I guess it could have been unblockable in this one. Leaving me with a coin flip. But I think it's you, especially since we pretty much know that Jack and Knightwing roles are not in the game at this point.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:10:34 pm
Also, I am the spirit of knightwing, no one contested that claim. This game. You want it to end quickly without thought?I don't want it to get confounded by FUD either, but. Unvote. Convince me that it's knightwing.
Post by: TricMagic on December 27, 2022, 01:11:12 pm
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 27, 2022, 01:16:17 pm
I’m Town, I believe Max is town. I believe you, Tric, not to be.
Tricmagic
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:17:21 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:18:09 pm
Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 01:18:28 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:20:02 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 27, 2022, 01:20:18 pm
I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it's pretty unlikely Max and Jim are mafia together.
Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 01:20:24 pm
I'd have gotten you if TricMagic hadn't chosen the worst Action on every possible Night.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 27, 2022, 01:21:59 pm
I'd have gotten you if TricMagic hadn't chosen the worst Action on every possible Night.Yeah what the fuck? Not shooting N1 and then shooting Web N2?
Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 01:22:55 pm
"DUH! WEBADICT WENT WEALLY HAWD ON JIM, SO NOW I SHOOTED HIM A DAY WATE AND HE DIE WHY HE DO DAT?!?"I'd have gotten you if TricMagic hadn't chosen the worst Action on every possible Night.Yeah what the fuck? Not shooting N1 and then shooting Web N2?
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:27:13 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 27, 2022, 01:28:40 pm
"He says he's Tric, sounds suspicious."
Tric tries to pull something from his coat. It's a gun!
Knightwing's Heir blasts "Tric" with both barrels of his shotgun!
Knightwing's Heir then reaches over and scans Tric's mutilated face.
"Dad?!"
BANG
Max shoots Knightwing's Heir!
Knightwing64, actually Bluarianknight, has disappeared!
Spoiler: Max's false face falls off to reveal (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 27, 2022, 01:29:55 pm
Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 01:33:07 pm
I wanna check one thing. Web, were you actually told I roleblocked you n1 despite having no action? Because I really did - double-acting - but it would be pretty funny if that huge benefit ended up being useless.No, but I knew you did, and I wasn't going to tell you. Deadchat has a complete log of Toony and I figuring out the entire game. It's unfortunate, because the two remaining players were never going to logic through the evidence to win. TricMagic had part of why you were scum, but he didn't have the rest:
You actually made the wrong play if you wanted to look like Town, which was to vote Knightwing. TricMagic was confirmed by the double shot. Additionally, you roleblocking me on Night 1 was also evidence of you being scum, since ToonyMan never gets shot by anyone unless they know I was roleblocked as a fakeclaim Doctor.
It's also easy to prove Tric is Town here because he chose the absolutely worst course of action at all points in time. Always. And forever.
Post by: EuchreJack on December 27, 2022, 01:34:02 pm
Post by: TricMagic on December 27, 2022, 01:36:53 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:38:00 pm
You actually made the wrong play if you wanted to look like Town, which was to vote Knightwing. TricMagic was confirmed by the double shot.Right, I just wanted to get Knightwing to vote at that point, because I thought it would be easier to get him to vote Tric than to get Tric to vote Knightwing. And I did have the fact of Jim's superkill in the original game to back it up.
Quote
Additionally, you roleblocking me on Night 1 was also evidence of you being scum, since ToonyMan never gets shot by anyone unless they know I was roleblocked as a fakeclaim Doctor.I didn't believe you were really a doctor, because it was you claiming it, but yeah, I was worried someone would notice that. I was going for "well, either Knightwing and Tric might just not have believed you or not thought of that".
Post by: ToonyMan on December 27, 2022, 01:39:15 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:40:26 pm
Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 01:41:35 pm
Web, first, you pushed for that lynch really quickly. Second, you had already lied once before. Third, Knightwing you idiot.I'm actually really mad, because I think that had TricMagic shot literally anyone except me on Night 2, the game would've been a win for Town.
If TricMagic had shot Deus Asmoth on Night 1 LIKE HE WAS FUCKING SUPPOSED TO, this game would've been won. IN FACT, IF HE HAD SHOT ANYONE EXCLUDING TOONYMAN ON NIGHT 1, IT WOULD'VE PROVEN HIM!
I cannot overstate enough that TricMagic managed to lose a won game for Town. If anyone wants proof that voting TricMagic on Day 1 was wrong, this is all the evidence you need.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 27, 2022, 01:42:02 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on December 27, 2022, 01:45:54 pm
Deus had a Town result on Toony, and Toony had a no-action on Web. Had anyone else been shot than Toony, I think Mafia would have lost.
When I get more time, I can put together a more detailed writeup of the game.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:47:29 pm
I'm actually really mad, because I think that had TricMagic shot literally anyone except me on Night 2, the game would've been a win for Town.I also had a bulletproof, so maybe not. There was actually nobody Tric could kill on N2. And realistically, I bet I could get him and KW to vote you out and then nightkill him.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 27, 2022, 01:50:27 pm
I cannot overstate enough that TricMagic managed to lose a won game for Town. If anyone wants proof that voting TricMagic on Day 1 was wrong, this is all the evidence you need.You say this like you're not the one who spend D1 gaslighting me over my correct read on Max.
Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 01:54:40 pm
Web, first, you pushed for that lynch really quickly. Second, you had already lied once before. Third, Knightwing you idiot.So... You believed Max was a Town Roleblocker, blocked me, and I somehow still killed through the roleblock on ToonyMan, a player I claimed I was protecting?
BECAUSE THAT'S THE LOGIC YOU WOULD'VE HAD TO USE!
Unlikely. You being alive would only raise eyebrows if TricMagic shot you. Your roleblocking me Night 1 only makes you as the possible scum other than Deus Asmoth. No one else shoots ToonyMan there. You would've had to prove that both Mafia had resistance to Town Roleblocking.I'm actually really mad, because I think that had TricMagic shot literally anyone except me on Night 2, the game would've been a win for Town.I also had a bulletproof, so maybe not. There was actually nobody Tric could kill on N2. And realistically, I bet I could get him and KW to vote you out and then nightkill him.
You spent the entire Day being combative. I told you exactly what you were doing wrong, and you fought with me the entire time. You can say I was gaslighting you, but I wasn't.I cannot overstate enough that TricMagic managed to lose a won game for Town. If anyone wants proof that voting TricMagic on Day 1 was wrong, this is all the evidence you need.You say this like you're not the one who spend D1 gaslighting me over my correct read on Max.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 01:57:35 pm
Unlikely. You being alive would only raise eyebrows if TricMagic shot you. Your roleblocking me Night 1 only makes you as the possible scum other than Deus Asmoth. No one else shoots ToonyMan there. You would've had to prove that both Mafia had resistance to Town Roleblocking.Yeah, if I were arguing it to not Tric and Knightwing. But like, your first paragraph already shows that Tric suspected you despite my roleblock for no reason!
Post by: Deus Asmoth on December 27, 2022, 01:59:55 pm
You spent the entire Day being combative. I told you exactly what you were doing wrong, and you fought with me the entire time. You can say I was gaslighting you, but I wasn't.So you just saying things that you want to be true isn't just an in game thing, you do it all the time? Cool. The fact of the matter is that I asked Max to justify a single action, he threw a tantrum and you decided that somehow made me scum. You can argue that my responses to you were combatitive, but you had fully earned it.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 27, 2022, 02:04:39 pm
The fact of the matter is that I asked Max to justify a single action, he threw a tantrum and you decided that somehow made me scum.You were actually wrong, though. I really did everything I would have done as town, and the fact that it looks shady to you helps me because the people who have played with me more will defend it. I did something similar in day 1 of BeBYOR2.
Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 02:10:55 pm
I see. So, you just sound combative. That makes sense. I don't see why you wouldn't listen to what I was saying when I was doing my best to get you to look Town. It took until the last two minutes of the Day to get you to vote Jim, for instance, in spite of three other players trying to get you to do the same.You spent the entire Day being combative. I told you exactly what you were doing wrong, and you fought with me the entire time. You can say I was gaslighting you, but I wasn't.So you just saying things that you want to be true isn't just an in game thing, you do it all the time? Cool. The fact of the matter is that I asked Max to justify a single action, he threw a tantrum and you decided that somehow made me scum. You can argue that my responses to you were combatitive, but you had fully earned it.
Knightwing would be easier to convince. TricMagic is a loose grenade, but Knightwing usually thinks things through. Usually.Unlikely. You being alive would only raise eyebrows if TricMagic shot you. Your roleblocking me Night 1 only makes you as the possible scum other than Deus Asmoth. No one else shoots ToonyMan there. You would've had to prove that both Mafia had resistance to Town Roleblocking.Yeah, if I were arguing it to not Tric and Knightwing. But like, your first paragraph already shows that Tric suspected you despite my roleblock for no reason!
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 27, 2022, 02:26:11 pm
DAMN YOU TRIC
The only winning move when Tric is involved seems to be ignoring his existence. Dammit, I thought Max was town because he Unvoted Tric
TRIC HOW AM I THE IDIOT
ME VOTING MAX INSTEAD OF YOU MADE NO SENSE
Jeez, if you abandon the gag at the start of the game, then start using it later in the game after someone called you out on not using the gag is obviously sus behavior, no? Max was fairly low-key.
No matter how you look at it, Tric was the sus one.
My revenge for Tric grows ever stronger. I demand a part 2 to finish the series with
Post by: Knightwing64 on December 27, 2022, 02:26:49 pm
Post cut off.
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Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 02:36:18 pm
I think your best move (if possible) would be to post while he had voted TricMagic to prove your were Town, and then have them argue who was scum for you. Hammers being active means that someone can prove their Town by not Hammering. I'm not sure if you saw that or not, but it was a possibility.
I think, thinking it through, Max might've made the right play as scum. The right play as Town was to vote Knightwing, since Tric is cleared of the kill (double shot on the Bulletproof Vest), but I think relying on TricMagic to decide is probably too dangerous as scum. I think TricMagic still votes Knightwing here, though, so Max played it really well to get in a position like that.
You can rush any Day except the last one! Never rush the last Day!
Post by: ToonyMan on December 27, 2022, 02:36:56 pm
My revenge for Tric grows ever stronger.Remember this my young Padawan: Embrace your emotions, let them fill you with rage and hatred.
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 27, 2022, 02:43:34 pm
Jim wins by doing nothing?
Jim totally did something: he agreed to let me bus him hard from the very start. Without that I think we would have had a much harder time.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: EuchreJack on December 27, 2022, 03:29:00 pm
The only winning move when Tric is involved seems to be ignoring his existence.
Well, unless he's scum. But he's easier to ignore as scum.
You're learning.
To be fair, Knightwing, there were pieces of information that made Max the likeliest scum that you didn't sift through. Max's best play was definitely rushing you into voting without looking at it, since I think he accurately identified that either of you would jump on a vote without realizing hammer. His unvote allows him to potentially get TricMagic to vote Knightwing, as an insurance card.To be fair, Web thought Max was Town right up to the moment he got shot twice.
I think your best move (if possible) would be to post while he had voted TricMagic to prove your were Town, and then have them argue who was scum for you. Hammers being active means that someone can prove their Town by not Hammering. I'm not sure if you saw that or not, but it was a possibility.
I think, thinking it through, Max might've made the right play as scum. The right play as Town was to vote Knightwing, since Tric is cleared of the kill (double shot on the Bulletproof Vest), but I think relying on TricMagic to decide is probably too dangerous as scum. I think TricMagic still votes Knightwing here, though, so Max played it really well to get in a position like that.
You can rush any Day except the last one! Never rush the last Day!
Post by: webadict on December 27, 2022, 04:48:17 pm
To be fair, Web thought Max was Town right up to the moment he got shot twice.No, getting shot twice was the moment I realized TricMagic was FUCKING TOWN.
Post by: EuchreJack on December 28, 2022, 02:21:25 pm
Spoiler: Jim Groovester - Ascetic Tric (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maximum Spin - Roleblocker Jim (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: TricMagic - Vigilante Spirit of Knightwing (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Knightwing64 - Commuter Spirit of BluarianKnight (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: webadict - Bulletproof Spirit of Maximum Spin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ToonyMan - Tracker Spirit of Oliverz144 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Deus Asmoth - Cop Lidku (click to show/hide)
Post by: TricMagic on December 28, 2022, 07:49:08 pm
Quote
=TricMagic - Vigilante Spirit of Knightwing]Congratulations!This was in no way prophetic. :)
You are NOT one of the people being hunted! Although, in another life, you might have accidentally assisted in murdering one or more people, that is now somebody else's problem.
Instead, you are:
Vigilante Spirit of Knightwing: Once per night, you can KILL one player, sidestepping the stupid town that lost the game last time.
:o
Quote
Don't get shot twice, and you should be fine. 8)Or this :P
Post by: EuchreJack on December 28, 2022, 08:19:43 pm
Quote from: Deus Asmoth's Role
You're a COP, the only one who should legitimately be hunting mafia criminals. Oh well, you'll have to suffer through Amateur Hour to find the culprits.