Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: TricMagic on March 12, 2023, 02:17:26 pm

Title: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Crash Report Log)
Post by: TricMagic on March 12, 2023, 02:17:26 pm
The Gooapocolypse has begun. After the events of Bring 2: It's Personal, the virus spread, amalgamated , and corrupted everything in it's path. As a result the internet the world relies on has become filled with bugs and becomes ever more unreliable, and tensions among the world rise. The only thing preventing complete takeover is the bugs in the system that have arisen from the unending mutation the gooey virus has undergone.

Enter the brave souls who with their experience in hacking have found a way into the central core of this virus through the same virtual game it once resided in. This backdoor will allow them to strike directly at the anomaly and end the threat once and for all. However, their firewalls will be tested, as some of the old player data yet exists performing it's own mad coding that they will have to see through and prune, before it's too late.


Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate has arrived. Take on the role of hackers out to save the cyberworld and the real world from complete collapse. It will be up to you to pick Three Roles to add to the pool your abilities will be drawn from. Due to antiviruses developed, the previous roles from Bring 2: It's Personal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179867.0) are not available. And like the last game, it's insanity will be the result of the roles picked.

Welcome to this crazy madness of a game. Players who sign up will publicly list two powers from the MafiaWiki (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Roles). These will then be randomized and handed out to the players and the mafia team randomly chosen. By the nature of the game, it's chaos. So I wonder how you will handle things.

Of Note, Mafia have a shared kill. Hammers ae in effect, and the days are 72 hours, not counting Sat/Sun on the weekends. Nights are 24 Hours or once all actions have been submitted, even if that action is to do nothing.

TricMagic has no responsibility for game balance. There will be no bastard rules or subtext.
Whenever a player is killed they will lose one of their abilities.

Please link URLs to the roles you pick, it saves time.
B3 is about to begin, and the end of the world ticks down. Are you ready?


Player 1
-notquitethere
-zemaj
-FallacyofUrist
-Maximum Spin
-ToonyMan
-webadict
-Fluffe9911
-Jim Groovester
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 12, 2023, 02:25:02 pm
In. For those that can't decipher Tric's post: pick three roles from mafia wiki (https://wiki.mafiascum.net), they'll collectively form the pool of roles for the game. Don't pick anything from the last game.

My submissions:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Parrot
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strengthener
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Janitor
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: TricMagic on March 12, 2023, 02:27:42 pm
I did underline 3 Roles, not 2. So more craziness.

Oh, and no Slimes. The Rainbow Slime ate everything.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: EuchreJack on March 12, 2023, 03:03:58 pm
Three slimes, got it
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 12, 2023, 03:32:56 pm
I did underline 3 Roles, not 2. So more craziness.
Of course! I've amended my post.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: zemaj on March 12, 2023, 03:53:16 pm
In.

Bus Driver (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver)
Post Restriction (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Post_Restriction)
Stumpy (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tree_Stump)

[As this will be my first game with this group I will ask how BM this is going to be before entering submissions, from what I have seen from casual perusal, you(plr) tend not to go too overboard with thing like TFPTSLBOIA, but how does this group (or really @Tricmagic as mod) feel about things like Miller, Watcher, Jester, Bus Driver, Investigator-With-Sanity-Issues, etc.?]

EDIT:
hmmm... forum software doesn't support @'s.  Not necessary in this case, as mod is OP, but important to note going forward.

EDIT2:
added role pick urls  :D
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 12, 2023, 04:27:18 pm
[placeholder... role submissions forthcoming.  As this will be my first game with this group I will ask how BM this is going to be before entering submissions, from what I have seen from casual perusal, you(plr) tend not to go too overboard with thing like TFPTSLBOIA, but how does this group (or really @Tricmagic as mod) feel about things like Miller, Watcher, Jester, Bus Driver, Investigator-With-Sanity-Issues, etc.?]
Community wise, almost anything goes. Death Millers and such are confined to games explicitly labeled bastard-mod, and generally internal sanity effects are used rarely (things like being an Insane Cop), but external ones (like being a Miller or a Framer) can be more common.

In.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mysterious_Conduit (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mysterious_Conduit)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=King (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=King)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Governor (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Governor)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: TricMagic on March 12, 2023, 04:33:02 pm
I'm taking url pages, so... So long as it wasn't picked before given everything gets randoed. (bastard roles lead to bastard games.)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 12, 2023, 11:09:37 pm
I probably sign up for this eventually, but picking out three roles that haven't been chosen before is, like, work, which I don't want to do.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: webadict on March 13, 2023, 10:01:06 am
I probably sign up for this eventually, but picking out three roles that haven't been chosen before is, like, work, which I don't want to do.
^
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 13, 2023, 10:49:11 am
Spoiler: Previous Roles (click to show/hide)

Which means that Fallacy, you've got to pick something other than Flagbearer as it was in the last game.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 13, 2023, 12:49:51 pm
I probably sign up for this eventually, but picking out three roles that haven't been chosen before is, like, work, which I don't want to do.
^
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 0/?
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 13, 2023, 12:59:56 pm
Spoiler: Previous Roles (click to show/hide)

Which means that Fallacy, you've got to pick something other than Flagbearer as it was in the last game.

I probably sign up for this eventually, but picking out three roles that haven't been chosen before is, like, work, which I don't want to do.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 13, 2023, 01:50:09 pm
If it makes it easier, here's the page with all the valid roles (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:All_roles_and_modifiers&pageuntil=Priest#mw-pages). Here's page 2. (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:All_roles_and_modifiers&pagefrom=Priest#mw-pages)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 13, 2023, 05:58:44 pm
Which means that Fallacy, you've got to pick something other than Flagbearer as it was in the last game.
Ugggggh

But you're right, I'll do that now.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 14, 2023, 01:42:35 pm
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fruit_Festival
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Blocked_(role)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Townie

Somehow felt cruel today.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 16, 2023, 06:50:59 pm
I've got three.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lazy
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=False
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Unjester

I just realized Lazy doesn't work, uh...Lazy Tracker?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: webadict on March 16, 2023, 09:41:50 pm
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Electrifier (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Electrifier)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Dark_Creature (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Dark_Creature)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Poisoner (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Poisoner)

MURDER DEATH KILL
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 16, 2023, 11:57:05 pm
I just kept hitting the random page button until I got three roles so this is uh going to be interesting. (I'm not sure if Hidden really counts as a role or not so just let me know and ill switch it out with something else)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hidden
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Enchantress
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Arsonist
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 3/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2023, 03:38:45 am
I just realized Lazy doesn't work, uh...Lazy Tracker?
The role modifiers should work, as there's a surplus of power roles anyway, but I guess it depends how Tric wants to run it.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: zemaj on March 18, 2023, 07:07:25 pm
Pre-game setup speculation for the bonus townie-points: if in a role-madness game, a Double-voter gets Doubler modifier, is the result a tripling or quadrupling?*






*: any correlations drawn to any past, ongoing, or possible future games are totally those of the players providing them, obviscum that they are.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 18, 2023, 07:12:59 pm
Easy, 'Double' modifier allows two night action; double-voting is a day power. They don't interact.

If you had a power which was like "tomorrow you get +1 vote", then doubling that action would leave you with +two additional votes, or three votes total the next day.

No one has submitted 'double' modifier that I can see, so we're clear for that problem at least.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 18, 2023, 08:12:46 pm
Easy, 'Double' modifier allows two night action; double-voting is a day power. They don't interact.

Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Double
A Double role may act twice each night (or Day in the case of a Day role).
((Emphasis added))
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: EuchreJack on March 18, 2023, 08:37:59 pm
At least we know NQT is town... :P
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: webadict on March 18, 2023, 09:01:31 pm
Easy, 'Double' modifier allows two night action; double-voting is a day power. They don't interact.

Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Double
A Double role may act twice each night (or Day in the case of a Day role).
((Emphasis added))
A multivoter is not a Day Action.  It is a Role Modifier.

Quote
Doublevoter can be used as a role modifier or as a role in its own right. It allows the player to cast the equivalent of two votes.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 18, 2023, 09:16:08 pm
Quote
Doublevoter can be used as a role modifier or as a role in its own right. It allows the player to cast the equivalent of two votes.
((Emphasis added))
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: webadict on March 18, 2023, 09:32:37 pm
Voting isn't an action.

Quote
A vote is simply a quantifiable expression of the desire to eliminate a player. Each player (barring exceptions like Doublevoter) has one vote, which they may cast for players at will.

Roles are not the same things as actions.  Having a role doesn't necessarily grant an action.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 19, 2023, 02:45:08 am
This episode doesn't portend well for my reading comprehension in the upcoming game...
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: webadict on March 19, 2023, 11:52:23 am
When's the game start?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: TricMagic on March 19, 2023, 12:58:32 pm
Given I've apparently caught a cold from someone, next week. Anyone got recommendations on which day?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: webadict on March 19, 2023, 01:31:07 pm
Given I've apparently caught a cold from someone, next week. Anyone got recommendations on which day?
Nah, I just think a cutoff time for signups would force people to signup sooner.

Do, uh, Friday or something.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: TricMagic on March 19, 2023, 01:35:43 pm
Given I've apparently caught a cold from someone, next week. Anyone got recommendations on which day?
Nah, I just think a cutoff time for signups would force people to signup sooner.

Do, uh, Friday or something.
KK.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 21, 2023, 06:40:12 pm
Voting isn't an action.

Quote
A vote is simply a quantifiable expression of the desire to eliminate a player. Each player (barring exceptions like Doublevoter) has one vote, which they may cast for players at will.

Roles are not the same things as actions.  Having a role doesn't necessarily grant an action.

Based on what I’ve read from the wiki, I think there’s a possibility that you aren’t telling the truth and you’re just taking advantage of the fact that I’ve never actually played Mafia.  Based on this, it seems that (if I were actually playing the game, which I’m not) I should EAL you.  On the other hand, I can’t actually prove that what you say is untrue…

@TricMagic, what do you think?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: zemaj on March 22, 2023, 02:59:30 am
I'd say its just a logical inference... 'Doubler-modifier' does just that, modifies a role to have its effect, twice.  Since Double-Voter is definitely a role, I'm not sure what all the semantics about actions-vs-roles is, except blatant IIoA...

obviously, the only true answer is "however the mod decides to do it".  That said, to answer my own specific question, I'd say Triple-Vote, as 'Doubler' would double the extra vote the role provides.  I could see a point for the doubling of total votes, but unless its >12player game, Quad-vote would be massively OP and broken.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: webadict on March 22, 2023, 11:06:52 am
I'd say its just a logical inference... 'Doubler-modifier' does just that, modifies a role to have its effect, twice.  Since Double-Voter is definitely a role, I'm not sure what all the semantics about actions-vs-roles is, except blatant IIoA...

obviously, the only true answer is "however the mod decides to do it".  That said, to answer my own specific question, I'd say Triple-Vote, as 'Doubler' would double the extra vote the role provides.  I could see a point for the doubling of total votes, but unless its >12player game, Quad-vote would be massively OP and broken.
No, it says that it acts twice.  This is done through actions.  Thus, a role with Day actions could act twice, but a role with two votes wouldn't gain additional votes.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 22, 2023, 05:02:42 pm
No, it says that it acts twice.  This is done through actions.  Thus, a role with Day actions could act twice, but a role with two votes wouldn't gain additional votes.
To add to that: Conceivably, there could be a day action that doubles your vote, and how that interacts with being used twice would depend on how it's written; but that's not how the standard doublevoter power works.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 22, 2023, 08:32:05 pm
I'd say its just a logical inference... 'Doubler-modifier' does just that, modifies a role to have its effect, twice.  Since Double-Voter is definitely a role, I'm not sure what all the semantics about actions-vs-roles is, except blatant IIoA...

obviously, the only true answer is "however the mod decides to do it".  That said, to answer my own specific question, I'd say Triple-Vote, as 'Doubler' would double the extra vote the role provides.  I could see a point for the doubling of total votes, but unless its >12player game, Quad-vote would be massively OP and broken.
No, it says that it acts twice.  This is done through actions.  Thus, a role with Day actions could act twice, but a role with two votes wouldn't gain additional votes.

How do we know that the word “acts” in “acts twice” refers specifically to Mafia “Actions” and not to actions in the more general sense of the word?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: webadict on March 22, 2023, 09:39:40 pm
How do we know that the word “acts” in “acts twice” refers specifically to Mafia “Actions” and not to actions in the more general sense of the word?
This isn't philosophy class.  We're not debating the meaning of words.  You're the one that needs to prove that those words mean what you say they mean because you'd be providing evidence if they did, which you've ceased to do.  No evidence means your words mean nothing.  And if your words are meaningless, they can be ignored as if you said nothing.

Actually, worse.  They can be used against you.

This is Mafia.  Where's the evidence?  Here's mine.

Acting (or action) is defined as using a role ability.  Since Day is a modifier (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Day_(modifier)), the following could be construed as the definition for action, since Day Actions and Night Actions can be assumed to differ only by their Phase:
Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Night_Action
Night Actions, or Night Choices, are the role-related actions that players must send in and mods must accept. These range from Cops deciding who to investigate, to the Mafia deciding who they will send to kill whom, to X-Shot Commuters deciding whether they wish to use their action at all.

Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Passive
A Passive Role is one which has no ability to choose when or how to use their role abilities. Examples include Bulletproof, Bomb, and Lovers. Note that role modifiers such as X-Shot can sometimes change a passive role to an Active Role; this is known as an Activated role.

A Doublevoter is a Passive role.  Your vote merely counts as two votes.  If you were an activated Doublevoter, it is possible your vote could count as more, and thus a 1-Shot Doubler Doublevoter might get two or three or four votes, but we're not talking about that.  We're talking about a Doubler Doublevoter, which could use two actions, but the act of voting is not in itself an action, on account of it not being an active role-related ability, as explained.

As furtherance of this, we can look at a Townie:
Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Townie
Its members post and vote like anyone else during the Day, and cannot act at Night without the help of power roles.
...
"Townie" is a role designation for a pro-Town role that has no active ability.
A Townie can vote, or do you believe that a Townie is incapable of even the act of voting, posting, living, etc.?

Thus, we can assume that voting does not fall into the category of acting in regards to your definition of Doubler, and thus, that acting/action refers to the set of role abilities that are actively used.

A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: zemaj on March 22, 2023, 10:36:53 pm
<snip>
A Doublevoter is a Passive role.  Your vote merely counts as two votes.  If you were an activated Doublevoter, it is possible your vote could count as more, and thus a 1-Shot Doubler Doublevoter might get two or three or four votes, but we're not talking about that.  We're talking about a Doubler Doublevoter, which could use two actions, but the act of voting is not in itself an action, on account of it not being an active role-related ability, as explained.
<snip>

While I'm sure there is a standard for this subforum, we luckily are not so limited in our total scope, no?

Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Doublevoter
Variations
Exactly how the double vote works is up to the moderator. Some examples include:

- A player may have two votes in play at a time, controlled with Vote: PLAYERNAME and Second Vote: PLAYERNAME.
- A player may cast a single vote, but it has the weight of two votes. If this is done, the moderator may explicitly list the vote twice, or just once. This is the variant listed in the Standard version, and it is a passive role.
- A player may cast a single vote inthread, but control an invisible second vote via PM. This is an untargeted active role.

It is not standardized whether a Doublevoter can change the number of votes required to eliminate. The Doublevoter is more powerful when the number of votes required to eliminate is based on the number of players in the game, rather than how many votes are in the game.

It is possible for a Doublevoter to simultaneously hammer two wagons if they are both at E-1 and the Doublevoter is on neither of them (and so is the only player not currently voting). What the moderator does in this scenario is not standardized simply because it's not a commonly plied strategy - if you're interested, contact your moderator to ask how they would handle such an occurrence.

A Doublevoter may lose their role abilities during ELo or MeLo.

we can see that your interpretation of a double voter as someone who compulsively uses their extra vote anytime they vote is in fact the second listed and logically the less frequently used, overall.  Personally, I'd call shenanigans on that setup, 'Standard' or not... pretty much out yourself on casting your first vote?  May as well be Village Idiot... then you may actually fulfil wincon. 
The, imo, 'best' use of a double-voter is that fringe case mentioned where they can hammer two wagons, almost always nabbing one scum and removing a distraction for rest of town while providing solid death-flip info.  Or Lol-hammering two townies as scum (which, also imo, should be on every mafia player's bucket list).  Neither of those is even possible with the compulsive-use setup, which just seems a bad trip-up for the town to waste time on in early game.

Moving past that, with the multiple different setups this very narrowly focused definition serves no great end and does a disservice to those assembled, diluting the possibly enriching opportunities available to us if we just try to look at something familiar, differently.  In a way that sucks far less anus.  And can be modified.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: zemaj on March 22, 2023, 10:42:52 pm
As an addendum:
I'm actually kind of opposed to a Double-Voter as a role in general.  Easily too powerful as scum and, if can get confirmed, MASSIVELY OP as town.

Now, as an X-shot... that's good, really good.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 22, 2023, 11:17:13 pm
How do we know that the word “acts” in “acts twice” refers specifically to Mafia “Actions” and not to actions in the more general sense of the word?
This isn't philosophy class.  We're not debating the meaning of words.  You're the one that needs to prove that those words mean what you say they mean because you'd be providing evidence if they did, which you've ceased to do.  No evidence means your words mean nothing.  And if your words are meaningless, they can be ignored as if you said nothing.

Actually, worse.  They can be used against you.

This is Mafia.  Where's the evidence?  Here's mine.

Acting (or action) is defined as using a role ability.  Since Day is a modifier (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Day_(modifier)), the following could be construed as the definition for action, since Day Actions and Night Actions can be assumed to differ only by their Phase:
Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Night_Action
Night Actions, or Night Choices, are the role-related actions that players must send in and mods must accept. These range from Cops deciding who to investigate, to the Mafia deciding who they will send to kill whom, to X-Shot Commuters deciding whether they wish to use their action at all.

Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Passive
A Passive Role is one which has no ability to choose when or how to use their role abilities. Examples include Bulletproof, Bomb, and Lovers. Note that role modifiers such as X-Shot can sometimes change a passive role to an Active Role; this is known as an Activated role.

A Doublevoter is a Passive role.  Your vote merely counts as two votes.  If you were an activated Doublevoter, it is possible your vote could count as more, and thus a 1-Shot Doubler Doublevoter might get two or three or four votes, but we're not talking about that.  We're talking about a Doubler Doublevoter, which could use two actions, but the act of voting is not in itself an action, on account of it not being an active role-related ability, as explained.

As furtherance of this, we can look at a Townie:
Quote from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Townie
Its members post and vote like anyone else during the Day, and cannot act at Night without the help of power roles.
...
"Townie" is a role designation for a pro-Town role that has no active ability.
A Townie can vote, or do you believe that a Townie is incapable of even the act of voting, posting, living, etc.?

Thus, we can assume that voting does not fall into the category of acting in regards to your definition of Doubler, and thus, that acting/action refers to the set of role abilities that are actively used.

A_Curious_Cat

Alright, you want evidence?  Here’s my evidence:

A.  Assume that webadict is a penguin.
B.  Also, assume that webadict is not a penguin.

1.  Because of A, we know that the statement “Either webadict is a penguin, or A_Curious_Cat is correct” must be true.

2.  However, we know from B that webadict  is not a penguin which, when combined with the previously established fact that “Either webadict is a penguin, or A_Curious_Cat is correct”, leads to the inescapable conclusion that A_Curious_Cat is correct.

QED


webadict
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 22, 2023, 11:33:38 pm
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Antisocial
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Virgin
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Coworker

I guarantee you I picked these roles because I found them interesting and not as a shitpost.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: hector13 on March 23, 2023, 12:54:54 am
Fallacy fallacy (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy).

Now I have posted.

Bugger.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 23, 2023, 05:43:51 pm
Fallacy fallacy (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy).
No wonder nobody ever believes my arguments
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 24, 2023, 02:00:37 am
Fallacy fallacy (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy).
No wonder nobody ever believes my arguments

Btw, the game linked in your sig appears to be over.  Do you know when the next one will be starting?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 24, 2023, 02:26:27 am
This game we're in the thread for is apparently starting today. Not too late to sign up.

I'm putting my auto-mafia game into signups imminently, to start next week, either way.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 24, 2023, 02:39:59 am
This game we're in the thread for is apparently starting today. Not too late to sign up.

I'm putting my auto-mafia game into signups imminently, to start next week, either way.

I’ve never played Mafia before, so I was hoping to start with a beginner’s game…
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 24, 2023, 02:59:21 am
Ok well the next game should be beginner friendly, with no advanced roles.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 24, 2023, 03:11:03 am
Ok well the next game should be beginner friendly, with no advanced roles.

“One Day Ultimate Mafia”… I’m not sure that sound beginner friendly…
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: notquitethere on March 24, 2023, 03:23:34 am
The name on the list is just a spin on the one night werewolf game (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/147949/one-night-ultimate-werewolf). I'm renaming it Auto-Mafia, which is more accurate. It has a gimmick, that the game is only one day, with the rest of the days automated, but otherwise its just a basic setup with a cop and doctor. It's a variation of this setup. (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Even/_Odd_C9)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups) 7/?
Post by: webadict on March 24, 2023, 07:36:13 am
You can also join BYOR 16.  That will be as beginner friendly as I make it.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 7/7
Post by: TricMagic on March 24, 2023, 08:30:55 am
Still sick, so. Am closing sign-ups though.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 7/7
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2023, 11:25:15 am
I liked the part where Tric doesn't let Jim sign up.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 8/8
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on March 25, 2023, 01:41:59 am
I took a look at the first post for ‘Auto Mafia’ and I think I’m going to wait and probably join ‘BYOR 16’ instead, when it comes out.

That being said, I intend to watch both the ‘Auto Mafia’ games (which I think should prove quite amusing) and thus game, as well.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 8/8
Post by: webadict on March 27, 2023, 08:08:20 pm
When game
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 8/8
Post by: webadict on March 27, 2023, 08:33:55 pm
The longer this game takes to start the longer it takes for BYOR 16, so I have a vested interest in this game starting sooner rather than later, and I'm already angry.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 8/8
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2023, 12:04:59 am
When game

Scream it louder.



WHEN GAME
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on March 28, 2023, 02:47:34 pm
When game

Scream it louder.



WHEN GAME
WHEN GAME!
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 06:18:13 pm
WHEN GAME!
Hey, I put Gate of Dreams up. Now you need to do the same thing, just with less magical girls.

WHENNNN GAMEEE
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Mixing Gelatin) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on March 29, 2023, 01:19:22 pm
WHEN GAME!
Hey, I put Gate of Dreams up. Now you need to do the same thing, just with less magical girls.

WHENNNN GAMEEE
Gelatin is mixed. Any recommendations on when it should be taken out of the fridge?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Mixing Gelatin) 8/8
Post by: webadict on March 29, 2023, 03:05:44 pm
WHEN GAME!
Hey, I put Gate of Dreams up. Now you need to do the same thing, just with less magical girls.

WHENNNN GAMEEE
Gelatin is mixed. Any recommendations on when it should be taken out of the fridge?
Literally ASAP?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Setting Roles) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on March 29, 2023, 03:30:53 pm
Think I'll wait for Auto-Mafia to end.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Setting Roles) 8/8
Post by: webadict on March 31, 2023, 05:57:46 pm
Start the game already
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Adding Whipped Cream) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 01, 2023, 02:04:59 pm
Before webadict asks, game will start tomorrow, and first day should go to Wednesday.
Everything pretty much done, but a slight breather from auto-mafia as they discuss that game, then this starts.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Adding Whipped Cream) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 01, 2023, 03:37:22 pm
Before webadict asks, game will start tomorrow, and first day should go to Wednesday.
Everything pretty much done, but a slight breather from auto-mafia as they discuss that game, then this starts.
Goodie!

Very good.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Sign-Ups Closed) 8/8
Post by: Egan_BW on April 01, 2023, 05:45:55 pm
WHEN GAME!
Hey, I put Gate of Dreams up. Now you need to do the same thing, just with less magical girls.

WHENNNN GAMEEE

Gate of Dreams when.

end of an era ;-;
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 02, 2023, 10:45:43 am
5 Souls have gathered from the world around, seeking to save the internet and stop the virus threatening to overtake it.
... Player.dat says 7 though? There are some talented hackers here, though the nature of this cyberspace obscures their fetures and links. Each has their own method of bypassing the bugs, firewalls, slimepits and connecting to the server. The world around them looks like a vast plain, however most of it is filled with goo, and entire sections missing, leaving only fragile paths above the void of code, a brilliant star of light seen far below. The first hurdle is finding the way through and farther down, but.. There are 7 instead of 8, and even that can't be trusted.

Day 1 has begun. Hammers are in effect. Bastard is also in effect. (you madmen.)
An Anti-Jester is in play, and if it is killed, the cyberspace will completely collapse.
The Day will end on Wednesday, 96 hours from now. Twilight Hours are in effect as well.
5 required to Lynch. The Mafia also have a King among them, lynch the King and they will collapse.
All Roles have been randomized, but which 3 roles you got are not in your PMs. Lore is different for all players.
(Even if it's obvious. Anti-Social (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Antisocial) Unjester. (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Unjester) Luck and Choice has decreed this game be Bastard. Even if the roles make the powerset.)

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 10:55:10 am
Hello everyone. Yes we must make sure we don't kill the antisocial unjester at night, otherwise we all lose (and they win) but we can day-eliminate them.

To this end... should we mass claim? Next to the Jester, there is one role that I think is always a scum faction, the Dark Creature (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Dark_Creature). If everyone claims their known roles, we should narrow the pool. We won't narrow it entirely though as there will be a Hidden (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hidden) role, and one person's role will be False (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=False).

What makes this a bastard game is the existence of hidden and false roles, sure, but also probably the Mysterious Conduit (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mysterious_Conduit). My bet is Tric has made it do something weird.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 11:01:20 am
I refuse to claim for reasons that I don't want to.

Also, if I die Tonight, NQT is Mafia.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 02, 2023, 11:01:38 am
I mean we could? If the majority of players are fine with that I don't see why not.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 11:02:34 am
To this end... should we mass claim?
Yes.

I appear to be a Blocked Bus Driver with a Post Restriction.
So don't expect me to do anything.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 02, 2023, 11:03:41 am
Yes.

I appear to be a Blocked Bus Driver with a Post Restriction.
So don't expect me to do anything.
Sheesh talk about getting the short end of the stick.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 11:06:21 am
ToonyMan.

I'm pretty sure this is correct.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 11:06:35 am
Incidentally, here is the list of all 24 roles. They can be sorted into roles with abilities, modifiers to roles, and alignments.

Spoiler: All Roles Collected (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 11:08:34 am
Relatedly.
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)
I think I'll just keep using this one. If I gotta have a post restriction, it's going to REMIND TRIC OF HIS FAILURE.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 11:11:04 am
What's your restriction, Max?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 11:34:32 am
What's your restriction, Max?
Well, it has to do with what I just posted.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 11:37:29 am
My guess then is every other post has to contain a meme, or something like that.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 12:33:03 pm
To the Mafia team, if the players don't vote out the unjester today, you might accidentally cause both town and mafia to lose if you accidentally kill the unjester at night.

As such, I suggest you kill me tonight. I'm town (and as such can still win if I die). I don't think there aren't any PGO type roles, so this isn't a trap.

To any town vigs/arsonists/poisoners/etc, don't lose us the game by firing wildly. Consider holding fire until we're clear of the unjester threat. You can target me if you really want, and if no one counterclaims, you can kill Max if you think it's warranted.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 12:58:09 pm
you can kill Max if you think it's warranted.
Wow. Harsh.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 01:47:31 pm
To any town vigs/arsonists/poisoners/etc, don't lose us the game by firing wildly. Consider holding fire until we're clear of the unjester threat. You can target me if you really want, and if no one counterclaims, you can kill Max if you think it's warranted.
I plan to shoot/burn/poison whoever I want!  Who would like to die?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 02:01:15 pm
zemaj, I'm sure you have something interesting to say.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 02:18:28 pm
zemaj, I'm sure you have something interesting to say.

uh, not really...

I just read an interesting article about the stabilization in rates of food-allergy occurence (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3236463/), if that helps any.

I oppose a mass-claim on D1... if I wanted to break a game, I'd play more DF, not mafia on the B12 forums.

I support a Jim Groovster elimination, but really just to go ahead and distance from last game.

I am totally not scum this time.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2023, 02:34:47 pm
To this end... should we mass claim?
Yes.

I appear to be a Blocked Bus Driver with a Post Restriction.
So don't expect me to do anything.
I think we should mass-claim in this game to increase the likelihood of town winning and to make my suffering end quicker, because I won't be allowed to leave this game until it's over.

I am an Electric Tree. I don't know what my third role is suppose to be, I think it's Townie. If anybody targets me they become electrified and will die if they target another electrified player. If I were to die I will become a Tree Stump and still be allowed to post while dead, but I won't have a vote. I will always flip as "Townie" even if I'm role-framed. I think that's why Townie is my third role.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 02, 2023, 02:45:41 pm
I oppose a mass-claim on D1... if I wanted to break a game, I'd play more DF, not mafia on the B12 forums.
Screw not breaking the game its already broken.

@notquiethere claim and ill claim as well.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 03:16:46 pm
Zemak
I just read an interesting article about the stabilization in rates of food-allergy occurence (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3236463/), if that helps any.
Great stuff! That is interesting, unvote. Especially the data about allergy reactions being higher among higher educated parents. I remember reading that peanut allergies are way less common in Israel where children are much more likely to be exposed to them at a young age.

I oppose a mass-claim on D1... if I wanted to break a game, I'd play more DF, not mafia on the B12 forums.
Pretty sure any setup should be balanced around not being broken by a mass claim; ultimately the main guard against the game becoming boring is for players to not make it boring. I think collectively solving the power interactions helps turn it from a random stuff-happens, to a big puzzle. It doesn't make it unfair for scum, who still have some wiggle room, as only King for definite (and maybe Dark Creature) are confirmed scum. The main argument against not mass claiming is for punchy town roles who have some secret weapon that they want to hold back on using.

@notquiethere claim and ill claim as well.
Can't say fairer than that. I'll see what a few more players do. But to make it fair, I've breadcrumbed my role somewhere.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 02, 2023, 03:37:13 pm
I'm not sure how to approach this game and my worry is that if I approach it seriously that effort will not be rewarded.

Based on my role PM I received the Lazy, Strengthener, and Virgin roles. I am Town.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 03:45:52 pm
... Fucking...

So dumb.

Fine.  Let's do the dumb plan where we claim everything, on the condition that we immediately vote.  And probably vote zemaj at that.

I'm the Fruit Festival.  I'm also the Dark Creature.  I refuse to claim my third role, because I'm not entirely sure what it is.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2023, 03:54:40 pm
Based on my role PM I received the Lazy, Strengthener, and Virgin roles. I am Town.
pff
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 02, 2023, 04:09:25 pm
Based on my role PM I received the Lazy, Strengthener, and Virgin roles. I am Town.
pff

I wanted to laugh at somebody else for having the Virgin role.

:|
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 04:10:54 pm
... Fucking...

So dumb.

Fine.  Let's do the dumb plan where we claim everything, on the condition that we immediately vote.  And probably vote zemaj at that.

I'm the Fruit Festival.  I'm also the Dark Creature.  I refuse to claim my third role, because I'm not entirely sure what it is.

... I R disappoint, webadict...

*sigh*  Thunderdome it is, then.  You really should have read my soft-claim better... or maybe lied about your other role?

Also Arsonist fwiw & assumeably a third, but Tric isn't answering my prods for clarification.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 04:14:00 pm
and as I read that, it occurs to me how that may have been webadict's best play... he is known, I am unknown.  He has good-faith based on long-standing.  I'm just coming off a scum-win as my introductory game.  Not sure what long-game was here, after I flip he's outed, but here we are...
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 04:22:14 pm
Are you fucking with me, or is this one of those weird scumplays?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2023, 04:25:03 pm
Somebody should have the False modifer and not actually know their real role. I assume this will become apparent if everyone claimed.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 02, 2023, 04:33:31 pm
I am the Enchantress.

There's... no sign of any other roles I have access to.

I must assume I either have the Hidden or the False, consequently.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 04:35:19 pm
Are you fucking with me, or is this one of those weird scumplays?

Serious like an infarction.  Only in that I think this play by you is very weird, and it instantly make me suspect you as scum.

Somebody should have the False modifer and not actually know their real role. I assume this will become apparent if everyone claimed.

I'm sorry, is this to deescalate?  I'm pretty sure that's not how this is going to work... but I'm listening if you are proposing something
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 04:44:50 pm
Okay, let's play a different game here:

If I'm lying, does that make me scum?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 04:55:57 pm
Okay, let's play a different game here:

If I'm lying, does that make me scum?

Intrinsically?  No.  It does mean that you are not playing in the town's best interest by lying in-thread, though.  As such, I am disinclined to believe you.  But sell me on it.  I'll listen.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 04:57:37 pm
You said you soft-claimed Zemaj. Maybe you were very subtle, but I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 04:59:25 pm
Okay, let's play a different game here:

If I'm lying, does that make me scum?

Intrinsically?  No.  It does mean that you are not playing in the town's best interest by lying in-thread, though.  As such, I am disinclined to believe you.  But sell me on it.  I'll listen.
No, you're jumping ahead a bit, let's wait just a second.

Next question:

If I'm not lying, does that make me scum?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 05:09:16 pm
You said you soft-claimed Zemaj. Maybe you were very subtle, but I'm not seeing it.

Really?  I thought you got it right away... that was the bit about food allergies... look at the list of PRs, I think its a good connection.   Subtle, maybe even easy to miss.  Hence, a good soft-claim, imo.

Okay, let's play a different game here:

If I'm lying, does that make me scum?

Intrinsically?  No.  It does mean that you are not playing in the town's best interest by lying in-thread, though.  As such, I am disinclined to believe you.  But sell me on it.  I'll listen.
No, you're jumping ahead a bit, let's wait just a second.

Next question:

If I'm not lying, does that make me scum?

So I can only answer your questions with the answers you want me to use?  Then I don't play that game.  How about you stop trying to get me to say what you want me to say and just state what you are getting at?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 05:12:50 pm
If lying doesn't necessarily make me scum, and not lying definitely doesn't make me scum, then why are you instantly assuming that I'm scum?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 05:23:03 pm
zemaj
It doesn't really matter if you are scum because you claimed fruit festival anyway.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 05:23:42 pm
If lying doesn't necessarily make me scum, and not lying definitely doesn't make me scum, then why are you instantly assuming that I'm scum?

You claimed my role, after I soft-claimed, and then dropped a vote on me.  On top of also claiming the second most sus role in the list.

Maybe I'm just used to a more subtle and aggressive game, but the counter-claim w/ attendant vote is a straight-up call out, at least in every other group I've played with.

I have no reason from what I have so far seen to believe Tric is just fucking with us, and you are claiming the role from my PM.  Yes, I'm on that.  Would you not, were positions reversed?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 02, 2023, 05:37:27 pm
Tric... did pretty much state that this is a bastard game.

Was it ever explicitly stated that there would be no duplicate roles assigned?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 05:38:19 pm
I claimed my role before you even posted, actually, and I'm not entirely sure where you soft-claimed Fruit Festival, so it'd be better to quote where that was instead of just saying that, so we can see exactly how you did so.

But, that makes me a hypocrite for not posting where I claimed Fruit Festival before you posted, but let's just chill a second and think about why that is, and it'll become obvious.

Of course, hilariously, I'm in the reversed position and you somehow don't see that, but my reason for voting you was because you didn't claim after I posted not wanting to claim, because I wanted to see who else was against it.  I actually believe that it's entirely possible for you to also be Fruit Festival, because it's a stupid thing to counterclaim, which actually explains a bit about why you wouldn't want to claim.

So, is any of what I'm saying incorrect?

Tric... did pretty much state that this is a bastard game.

Was it ever explicitly stated that there would be no duplicate roles assigned?
Why are you defending him?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 05:39:15 pm
You said you soft-claimed Zemaj. Maybe you were very subtle, but I'm not seeing it.

Really?  I thought you got it right away... that was the bit about food allergies... look at the list of PRs, I think its a good connection.   Subtle, maybe even easy to miss.  Hence, a good soft-claim, imo.
That did cross my mind but I dismissed it as being too tenuous! Consider that you could have been trying to soft-claim poisoner with that.



This is all very intriguing. Anyway, as Fluffe has agreed to claim, and so probably has at least 2 knowable roles (my bet is the flavour is a weird vulture), one of Zemaj or Webadict has to be the Jester (according to my spreadsheet).

Ordinarily 3rd party hunting is a bad sign, but actually we all lose if the Jester wins so I think our best bet is to vote out the Jester D1. We flip Zemaj or Web, and if they don't come up as Jester, we avoid NKing the other.

Tric... did pretty much state that this is a bastard game.

Was it ever explicitly stated that there would be no duplicate roles assigned?
I thought the bastard elements were coming in through the actual roles like False (as insane roles on Bay12 are considered bastard). He explicitly said that each player got three roles each.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 02, 2023, 05:41:53 pm
Why are you defending him?
Defending him? I'm not defending him at all.

I just think you two are arguing over something that could easily turn out to be pointless.

Tric... did pretty much state that this is a bastard game.

Was it ever explicitly stated that there would be no duplicate roles assigned?
I thought the bastard elements were coming in through the actual roles like False (as insane roles on Bay12 are considered bastard). He explicitly said that each player got three roles each.

Each player gets three roles from the pool, yes. Nowhere was it said that the roles chosen couldn't be duplicates.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 02, 2023, 05:44:30 pm
Ordinarily 3rd party hunting is a bad sign, but actually we all lose if the Jester wins so I think our best bet is to vote out the Jester D1. We flip Zemaj or Web, and if they don't come up as Jester, we avoid NKing the other.

In my experience, the players most fixated on third parties tend to be either mafia or third party themselves.

See the BYOR where I (scum) was totally convinced that heydude6 had to be a serial killer thanks to his murderguns role.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 05:46:43 pm
The unjester is in a tight spot, right? They have two elements to their role which are mod confirmed: antisocial and unjester. They know a full claim makes the game unwinnable for them, so their only route is through WIFOM and confusion. That + the claims already made or promised, mean that Web or Zemaj is the unjester. One of them may also be the mafia king too. Today one of these players will go.

Fallacy
Each player gets three roles from the pool, yes. Nowhere was it said that the roles chosen couldn't be duplicates.
You're either deliberately trying to sow confusion, or you have misread the mod. All roles have been randomised among the players with three each:
All Roles have been randomized, but which 3 roles you got are not in your PMs. Lore is different for all players.
(Even if it's obvious.

Anyway, shooting from the hip, Web is Jester, Zemaj + Fallacy are the scum team. GG everyone.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 05:49:24 pm
Ordinarily 3rd party hunting is a bad sign, but actually we all lose if the Jester wins so I think our best bet is to vote out the Jester D1. We flip Zemaj or Web, and if they don't come up as Jester, we avoid NKing the other.

In my experience, the players most fixated on third parties tend to be either mafia or third party themselves.

See the BYOR where I (scum) was totally convinced that heydude6 had to be a serial killer thanks to his murderguns role.
Yes that was literally what I said! I've bolded it for you. But in this game it's a bit different because the unjester is game ending. I still want to end scum, and if it becomes obvious who the King is, we should end the King first; and if the unjester is completely outed they might be safely ignored... but some role interaction or idiot player might still accidentally NK them, losing us the game.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2023, 05:49:46 pm
Zemaj + Fallacy are the scum team.
I feel like that was suppose to be true, but wasn't.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 02, 2023, 05:50:26 pm
Fallacy
Each player gets three roles from the pool, yes. Nowhere was it said that the roles chosen couldn't be duplicates.
You're either deliberately trying to sow confusion, or you have misread the mod. All roles have been randomised among the players with three each:
All Roles have been randomized, but which 3 roles you got are not in your PMs. Lore is different for all players.
(Even if it's obvious.

I'm not sure if I've misread it, no. That could just as easily be read as 'all the roles in play are distributed randomly'.

Zemaj + Fallacy are the scum team.
I feel like that was suppose to be true, but wasn't.
Flashbacks to Automafia.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 05:50:31 pm
Fallacy could very easily be covering for Antisocial Unjester as his two extra unclaimed role elements.

We need full claims from everyone.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 05:52:39 pm
Each player gets three roles from the pool, yes. Nowhere was it said that the roles chosen couldn't be duplicates.
Okay, but that's not the issue.  The issue is that his assumption was that because I claimed a role that he claimed, he automatically assumed I'm scum.  It's really about whether his accusation is genuine or not, as opposed to anything else.

I voted him because he didn't want to claim, and claiming one role doesn't claim the rest.

Ordinarily 3rd party hunting is a bad sign, but actually we all lose if the Jester wins so I think our best bet is to vote out the Jester D1. We flip Zemaj or Web, and if they don't come up as Jester, we avoid NKing the other.

In my experience, the players most fixated on third parties tend to be either mafia or third party themselves.

See the BYOR where I (scum) was totally convinced that heydude6 had to be a serial killer thanks to his murderguns role.
Right, but there's the possibility that Zemaj is Anti-Jester OR scum, both of which are viable votes.  I don't think that's focusing on third party.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 05:53:57 pm
Web is Jester
:(  I try, and I get called a Jester.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 02, 2023, 05:54:28 pm
And in any case, the False modifier exists, so at least one of us doesn't have accurate information on their role.

Hell, I could be a False Enchantress and not an Enchantress with something else Hidden.

Each player gets three roles from the pool, yes. Nowhere was it said that the roles chosen couldn't be duplicates.
Okay, but that's not the issue.  The issue is that his assumption was that because I claimed a role that he claimed, he automatically assumed I'm scum.  It's really about whether his accusation is genuine or not, as opposed to anything else.

I voted him because he didn't want to claim, and claiming one role doesn't claim the rest.
Ah. Yeah, that's a valid point.

Right, but there's the possibility that Zemaj is Anti-Jester OR scum, both of which are viable votes.  I don't think that's focusing on third party.
Mm, NQT seems fairly fixated on the Jester in general, just going by the look of all his posts.

I'm calling it - either he's scum or he's the Jester.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 05:55:23 pm
Relatedly,
(https://i.imgur.com/b62CsXR.png)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 06:01:33 pm
Actually it's possible that one of Web or Zemaj is a False Fruit Vendor.

Anyway Fallacy, I breadcrumbed my full roll in a previous post. Why would the unjester try to precipitate a mass claim? You thinking that I'm 3rd party is more suspicious.

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 02, 2023, 06:03:50 pm
Kind of want to shoot zemaj at least.

The evasiveness to directly answering questions was present in Automafia.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 06:05:01 pm
I claimed my role before you even posted, actually, and I'm not entirely sure where you soft-claimed Fruit Festival, so it'd be better to quote where that was instead of just saying that, so we can see exactly how you did so.

But, that makes me a hypocrite for not posting where I claimed Fruit Festival before you posted, but let's just chill a second and think about why that is, and it'll become obvious.

Of course, hilariously, I'm in the reversed position and you somehow don't see that, but my reason for voting you was because you didn't claim after I posted not wanting to claim, because I wanted to see who else was against it.  I actually believe that it's entirely possible for you to also be Fruit Festival, because it's a stupid thing to counterclaim, which actually explains a bit about why you wouldn't want to claim.

So, is any of what I'm saying incorrect?

Well, you are misrepresenting the post order... You state(#68) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181493.msg8465654#msg8465654) you don't want to claim. I [url+http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181493.msg8465694#msg8465694]posted (#82)[/url] my soft-claim.  Your next post (#87) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181493.msg8465724#msg8465724) claimed Fruit Festival and voted me.  I respond(#90) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181493.msg8465731#msg8465731) with full-claim and vote on you.

other than that, no, not that I can tell... I definitely didn't want to claim a no-use role (Fruit-Festival), and a highly suspect role (Arsonist), and I sure think it odd you choose Fruit-Festival for a cover, but its a role-madness game, so...

Each player gets three roles from the pool, yes. Nowhere was it said that the roles chosen couldn't be duplicates.
Okay, but that's not the issue.  The issue is that his assumption was that because I claimed a role that he claimed, he automatically assumed I'm scum.  It's really about whether his accusation is genuine or not, as opposed to anything else.

I voted him because he didn't want to claim, and claiming one role doesn't claim the rest.

Ordinarily 3rd party hunting is a bad sign, but actually we all lose if the Jester wins so I think our best bet is to vote out the Jester D1. We flip Zemaj or Web, and if they don't come up as Jester, we avoid NKing the other.

In my experience, the players most fixated on third parties tend to be either mafia or third party themselves.

See the BYOR where I (scum) was totally convinced that heydude6 had to be a serial killer thanks to his murderguns role.
Right, but there's the possibility that Zemaj is Anti-Jester OR scum, both of which are viable votes.  I don't think that's focusing on third party.

You are right next to me, let us not forget.
Each player gets three roles from the pool, yes. Nowhere was it said that the roles chosen couldn't be duplicates.
Okay, but that's not the issue.  The issue is that his assumption was that because I claimed a role that he claimed, he automatically assumed I'm scum.  It's really about whether his accusation is genuine or not, as opposed to anything else.

I voted him because he didn't want to claim, and claiming one role doesn't claim the rest.

here you go again conveniently not reading my posts in full...  I claimed Arsonist and something I am not at all clear on (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181493.msg8465731#msg8465731)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 06:10:16 pm
Kind of want to shoot zemaj at least.

The evasiveness to directly answering questions was present in Automafia.

sorry, which direct questions did I refuse to answer?  The one where I could only answer with the responses webadict dictated?  If its standard for you to let others put words in your mouth, I'm not sure how this works....
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 06:15:04 pm
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)
* contested

Unclaimed roles:
Parrot
Conduit
Governor
Poisoner
Janitor
False
Hidden
Coworker
King
Antisocial
Unjester

Fill in the rest of the table. Read your PMs carefully, dudes, it's normal to have to intuit one or more of the roles.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 06:16:22 pm
Zemaj, does your flavor mention fruit?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 06:21:15 pm
Zemaj, does your flavor mention fruit?

Flavor?  No.  Just the specific role info... my flavor is just weird, I can't make anything related to role list out of it, and, as stated, Tric isn't giving me more to work with.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 02, 2023, 06:22:10 pm



Max
Through POE, I've basically figured out the roles, so I personally no longer need a mass claim. Note for your list though, Fallacy is explicitly claiming Hidden, there's no other way his role would work with only Enchantress revealed.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 06:27:33 pm

TY!



Just a heads-up:  I'm about to have to step away, probably for the rest of the evening.  I hate it, but my rpg group needs their DM more than we need to figure out this cock-up.  I'll try to be back later, but no guarantees.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 02, 2023, 06:43:59 pm
Note for your list though, Fallacy is explicitly claiming Hidden, there's no other way his role would work with only Enchantress revealed.
I know, but I decided only to count what people explicitly said.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 02, 2023, 06:44:51 pm
Jim Groovester: Strong Lazy Virgin. And in the game, some roles.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 02, 2023, 08:53:46 pm
Fluffe9911
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 02, 2023, 09:00:40 pm
Fluffe9911
Eh? Did nqt post his roles while I wasnt looking?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 02, 2023, 10:54:58 pm
To any town vigs/arsonists/poisoners/etc, don't lose us the game by firing wildly. Consider holding fire until we're clear of the unjester threat. You can target me if you really want, and if no one counterclaims, you can kill Max if you think it's warranted.
I plan to shoot/burn/poison whoever I want!  Who would like to die?

If you shoot me then it blocks all kills the following night. Outside of shooting scum, I'm probably the most attractive target for town players to night kill.

I am not the antisocial unjester fakeclaiming virgin, although if I were the antisocial unjester I would want to fakeclaim virgin.

Kind of want to shoot zemaj at least.

The evasiveness to directly answering questions was present in Automafia.

sorry, which direct questions did I refuse to answer?  The one where I could only answer with the responses webadict dictated?  If its standard for you to let others put words in your mouth, I'm not sure how this works....

Yeah, those ones.

Usually when webadict is being demanding like that there's usually some point he's driving at and he's trying to cut through bullshit and nonsense. I usually like to see those questions answered without much hastle.

But it looks like you have managed to adequately communicate with each other so I don't really feel like I should belabor this anymore.

Max
Through POE, I've basically figured out the roles, so I personally no longer need a mass claim. Note for your list though, Fallacy is explicitly claiming Hidden, there's no other way his role would work with only Enchantress revealed.

Cool.

Who do I vote?

  • Jim Groovester: Strong Lazy Virgin. And in the game, some roles.

Uh uh uh uh uh uh

I have to have the False role! Yes, it's the only thing that makes sense!

Jim Groovester: Strong Lazy Virgin. And in the game, some roles.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stop it!

It's not funny!

Stop laughing!

Stoooooop!
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 02, 2023, 11:45:15 pm
well, guess I didn't miss much, then...
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 03:48:00 am
Fluffe9911
Eh? Did nqt post his roles while I wasnt looking?
Fluffe, do you have 1, 2, or 3 known roles?



Cool.

Who do I vote?
These people can't be the Jester:

Jim
NQT
Max
Toony

These people might be:

Fallacy - Probably just has a hidden role as no one else has claimed having exactly one role
Fluffe - Hasn't claimed but probably will claim 2-3 things
Zemaj - Claimed but was counterclaimed by Web
Web - Claimed but was counterclaimed by Zemaj. Who now thinks he has a false role, but doesn't appear to be how 'false' works. Web is almost certainly lying for some reason, and is in general acting somewhat how he was when he played a mafia-ally. Also, he has claimed the Dark Creature which, at least usually, is an explicitly mafia power. Now he might be a false dark creature, but that doesn't explain the fruit festival counterclaim as duplicate roles shouldn't appear.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 05:34:31 am
OK, but aside from all that, in a role-heavy game, we can get quite caught up with the role madness. Scum are still lurking, hoping to push through an easy elimination today that doesn't include themselves. So what are the votes looking like?

Web on Toony, RVS
NQT on Zemaj, RVS
Zemaj on Jim, RVS
Zemaj on Web, counterclaim
Max on Zemaj, getting rid of fruit festival (why? because it's annoying? But it'll stop the N1 kill, so why does Max want to get rid?)
Web on Fluffe, Fluffe hasn't claimed and so could be a bad role
NQT on Web - claims don't stack up ('false' shouldn't create a duplicate role- actually Tric might have implemented in whatever weird way he wanted, so this isn't the be-all-and-end-all, Zemaj might still be a better pick as hasn't claimed their third thing)

Who does that leave not voting:

Jim - unsure whether investing energy into a very wild game is worthwhile. Fair!
Fluffe  - slow to get going in every game, last to vote as town in automafia
Fallacy - active, but hasn't voted. Spent time muddying the waters. Could be scum.
Toony - has a godfather role, will stick around to confuse us after death, and has the same reading of false as Web appears to have:

Somebody should have the False modifer and not actually know their real role. I assume this will become apparent if everyone claimed.

Shooting again from the hip, scum team is probably Toony + (Zemaj or Fluffe or Web). Web or Fluffe is the unjester. Jim, Max, NQT all lock town. GG.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 07:32:34 am
How fucking bizarre that I know that NQT is lying with information that I know he has because we're Coworkers.

NQT, you literally know that's how False works because that's exactly how False was explained IN OUR COWORKER CHAT.

@TricMagic, would False show up as a duplicate of another role?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 07:34:57 am
Also, TricMagic, which roles are explicitly an alignment?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 07:38:38 am
Hold up, I might have posted this morning with a fuzzy recollection. OK unvote, it looks like I totally misread Tric's reply in our co-worker chat (sent late night NQT-time) and that is confirmed to be how it works.

I should always re-read things in the morning... this is like a lesser version of that robot pirate catgirl misreading incident all over again. I just get into a manic posting frenzy sometimes and need to slow my roll.

Web's right, we're co-workers. That comes from my role. I'm also the poisoner and the governor, so I can't be the jester or King. Your move Fluffe.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 07:42:45 am
Max on Zemaj, getting rid of fruit festival (why? because it's annoying? But it'll stop the N1 kill, so why does Max want to get rid?)
Wait, it works on kills?

Tric: Does it work on kills?

Also, NQT, web: At the very least, that's not how False normally works. A False role according to the wiki Tric's using just doesn't do anything, it doesn't pretend to be a different role.

never mind, I guess? posting anyway.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 07:46:51 am
Max on Zemaj, getting rid of fruit festival (why? because it's annoying? But it'll stop the N1 kill, so why does Max want to get rid?)
Wait, it works on kills?

I assume so! Here's what mafia wiki says:

Quote
Fruit Festival is a role that allows you to replace all actions that night with a Fruit Vendor action. An action with multiple targets will each turn into their own Fruit Vendor action.

I'm guessing it's one-shot.If someone has the Strong role due to Jim strengthening them, they would still act, but it probably wouldn't line up to make anyone strong before N1, unless Jim's action is a day power.

Also, NQT, web: At the very least, that's not how False normally works. A False role according to the wiki Tric's using just doesn't do anything, it doesn't pretend to be a different role.

never mind, I guess? posting anyway.
Yeah that's why I confused myself. But Web's right, Tric does appear to say otherwise in our chat.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 07:49:00 am
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)notquitethere: Poisoner Governor Coworker
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)zemaj: Arsonist Fruitfucker* False?
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)FallacyofUrist: Enchantress (Hidden) ?
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)Maximum Spin: Blocked Busdriver Postrestricted
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)ToonyMan: Electrified Tree Townie
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)webadict: Fruitfucker* Dorkcreature Coworker?
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)Fluffe9911: ? ? ?
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)Jim Groovester: will always be a Strong Lazy Virgin
* contested?

Unclaimed roles:
Parrot
Conduit
Janitor
King
Antisocial
Unjester
(False and Hidden not explicitly claimed but assumed)

Updated table. Better get talking, Fluffe9911
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 07:53:18 am
Max, I should note it seems from our flavour that the co-worker is coming from my role. Web is most likely False + Something masquerading as Fruit + Dark Creature or something masquerading as dark creature.

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 07:55:11 am
Max, I should note it seems from our flavour that the co-worker is coming from my role. Web is most likely False + Something masquerading as Fruit + Dark Creature or something masquerading as dark creature.
Yeah, I suspected this, since it seemed most likely that all roles are used. Still, I included it as a possibility for completeness. I guess I should have written that he could also be "False?", though.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 08:09:50 am
I don't really get the purpose of this action. It only very tenuously precommits you to the claim. You could easily have prepared lots of fakeclaims and hidden them in different ways — this one would even have worked equally well for Parrot, Post Restriction, Creature, and Conduit if you wanted to be one of them.
You could equally have used the first paragraph's T and E, or the last paragraph's B, or...

Anyway, Table Amendment:
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)zemaj: Arsonist Fruitfucker? ?
(https://i.imgflip.com/75mb5t.jpg)webadict: Dorkcreature Fruitfucker? ?

But with the understanding that you, knowing web's role, think he's the False one. Do you have any information you can give to help back that up?
This leaves, of course, Fluffe and Fallacy as the most likely Unjesters, with the conceivable possibility that zemaj is.

I reasonably suspect webadict and notquitethere are the scumteam.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 03, 2023, 08:12:18 am
Fluffe, do you have 1, 2, or 3 known roles?
3
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 03, 2023, 08:16:07 am
Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 03, 2023, 08:20:53 am
How fucking bizarre that I know that NQT is lying with information that I know he has because we're Coworkers.

NQT, you literally know that's how False works because that's exactly how False was explained IN OUR COWORKER CHAT.

@TricMagic, would False show up as a duplicate of another role?

Also, TricMagic, which roles are explicitly an alignment?

False can appear as another role, yes. Or it could be 0% on a known role. RNG.
No Roles are alignment indicative. It is entirely possible to have a Townie Antisocial that wins town the game if night-killed. RNG.

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 08:22:33 am
Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours
I don't think you can be.
Nobody has two role slots outstanding. If Fallacy is the Antisocial Unjester, who's Hidden? If Zemaj is and lying about being fruity, who's False? Presumably notquitethere knows webadict isn't lying about his role, and presumably webadict knows notquitethere isn't lying about his. All the other claims were made early enough and fit together, so I think it's most likely you just picked those roles off my list.

No Roles are alignment indicative. It is entirely possible to have a Townie Antisocial that wins town the game if night-killed. RNG.
So now you tell us the unjester isn't necessarily 3p?... well, we narrowed it down anyway, so too late for that.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 03, 2023, 08:29:44 am
I don't think you can be.
Nobody has two role slots outstanding. If Fallacy is the Antisocial Unjester, who's Hidden? If Zemaj is and lying about being fruity, who's False? Presumably notquitethere knows webadict isn't lying about his role, and presumably webadict knows notquitethere isn't lying about his. All the other claims were made early enough and fit together, so I think it's most likely you just picked those roles off my list.

Janitor is acting more of a modifier than a proper role if that helps your confusion any.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 03, 2023, 08:31:02 am
Also be aware if someone else claimed one of my roles I would of already said something about it.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2023, 08:36:24 am
Hold up, I might have posted this morning with a fuzzy recollection. OK unvote, it looks like I totally misread Tric's reply in our co-worker chat (sent late night NQT-time) and that is confirmed to be how it works.

I should always re-read things in the morning... this is like a lesser version of that robot pirate catgirl misreading incident all over again. I just get into a manic posting frenzy sometimes and need to slow my roll.

Web's right, we're co-workers. That comes from my role. I'm also the poisoner and the governor, so I can't be the jester or King. Your move Fluffe.

When you get up in morning sometimes you don't get much sleep. You go to take a shower and you're still wearing underwear, then when you finish you forgot to get a towel and have to go outside of the bathroom wet and naked only for your cat to try to murder you by walking between your legs.

After drying off, you put on your clothes. You want to put your pants on while standing, but you can't balance on one leg so you end hopping like a pogo stick until you land on your bed. You put your shirt on backwards and don't notice.

You spend 20 minutes looking for your Car Keys because you don't put them in the same place when you get home. After leaving you remember about halfway to work that you forgot your company badge, but decide you'll handle the embarrassment by having your coworkers let you inside the building. You also remember you didn't brush your teeth. You breathe out inside your shirt and it smells like you're The Grinch. Oh well.

When you arrive at work you are late, misdressed, unprepared, stressed, and smelly. You are also forgetful and don't think things through before taking action because the parking lot is empty and it is the weekend.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2023, 08:44:39 am
Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours
I believe the pious doge.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 08:48:02 am
Janitor is acting more of a modifier than a proper role if that helps your confusion any.
That doesn't help, no.
Unless I'm misunderstanding how roles are apportioned, in which case I invite TricMagic to correct me, you'd have needed to counterclaim at least one claim in play in order to open a role slot on some player.

I do see one possible exception, though - if False falsifies the player's entire role, either zemaj or webadict is a False Antisocial Unjester, the other one is the real Fruitfucker, and Fallacy is a Hidden Arsonist or Hidden Dork. Is that possible, Tric?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 08:50:20 am
Janitor is acting more of a modifier than a proper role if that helps your confusion any.
That doesn't help, no.
Unless I'm misunderstanding how roles are apportioned, in which case I invite TricMagic to correct me, you'd have needed to counterclaim at least one claim in play in order to open a role slot on some player.

I do see one possible exception, though - if False falsifies the player's entire role, either zemaj or webadict is a False Antisocial Unjester, the other one is the real Fruitfucker, and Fallacy is a Hidden Arsonist or Hidden Dork. Is that possible, Tric?
BTW: That would make the other of webadict or zemaj the King. In that case, we need to know whether lynching a Hidden player reveals the full role; if so, we should lynch Fallacy to reveal his role, telling us which of the two has the False role. Then we know to lynch the other one.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 08:58:42 am
I hate triple-posting, but I forgot to mention:
Mafia should be concealing the identity of the King by having the King claim an element from a teammate's role instead, so it's not actually certain that it's [zemaj|webadict], just that whichever of them ends up being the one I'm talking about would be ON the scumteam. There are a few other small wrinkles I'm ignoring but you can probably work them out.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 03, 2023, 09:26:22 am
Janitor is acting more of a modifier than a proper role if that helps your confusion any.
That doesn't help, no.
Unless I'm misunderstanding how roles are apportioned, in which case I invite TricMagic to correct me, you'd have needed to counterclaim at least one claim in play in order to open a role slot on some player.

I do see one possible exception, though - if False falsifies the player's entire role, either zemaj or webadict is a False Antisocial Unjester, the other one is the real Fruitfucker, and Fallacy is a Hidden Arsonist or Hidden Dork. Is that possible, Tric?

False wouldn't modify the entire role in that case, just one aspect of it.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 09:34:07 am
Tric has essentially confirmed that Web is fake-fruit, real dark creature.

Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours
I don't think you can be.
No one has counterclaimed these and I guessed this combo earlier:

(my bet is the flavour is a weird vulture)

(Vulture = Janitor: destroy bodies + parrot, weird = mysterious conduit)

So either:

2. Fluffe is lying: one of his claimed roles is Fallacy's hidden role, and one of his claimed roles is Web's faked role, and he is the unjester
3. Hidden works differently to how we assume and Fallacy is somehow the unjester

BTW: That would make the other of webadict or zemaj the King. In that case, we need to know whether lynching a Hidden player reveals the full role; if so, we should lynch Fallacy to reveal his role, telling us which of the two has the False role. Then we know to lynch the other one.
Yes Zemaj in particular has a unclaimed role element which he is being obscure about, and so might be King (or scum, loaning a safe claim to a King partner, as Max has suggested).

Zemaj, would you be able to paraphrase your flavour text?

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 09:37:23 am
False wouldn't modify the entire role in that case, just one aspect of it.
All right.

Another possibility I just thought of: If Fallacy is a Hidden Fruit Festival, and one of Zemaj or webadict is a False King appearing to be a Fruit Festival, while the other is the Antisocial Unjester fakeclaiming Fruit Festival, then Fluffe could be telling the truth. Presumably NQT would be able to tell if webadict were the AU fakeclaiming Fruit Festival, but if the AU and NQT share a win condition (whatever it is) then NQT might withhold that information. If that's the case, it's best to admit it - town has nightkills so a town AU would be just fine.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 09:40:22 am
Another possibility I just thought of: If Fallacy is a Hidden Fruit Festival, and one of Zemaj or webadict is a False King appearing to be a Fruit Festival,
It should also work if the non-fruit element is the false one that Fallacy has as Hidden, but that contradicts what notquitethere claimed.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 09:43:43 am
To be clear, all I know for certain about Web is that he is my co-worker but isn't the owner of the co-worker role. From private discussion, he appeared to have only two known roles. He could have faked that, but if so he did so quite convincingly. I think it most likely he has the false role. He could have been workshopping a claim to sell to me with his scum buddy, of course.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 09:46:14 am
To be clear, all I know for certain about Web is that he is my co-worker but isn't the owner of the co-worker role. From private discussion, he appeared to have only two known roles. He could have faked that, but if so he did so quite convincingly. I think it most likely he has the false role. He could have been workshopping a claim to sell to me with his scum buddy, of course.
Co-workers usually know each other's roles, so you're confirming this is not the case here?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 09:50:59 am
Co-workers usually know each other's roles, so you're confirming this is not the case here?
Correct, we just share a chat. I don't know his role or alignment. He claimed his role to me way before he claimed in the thread, so I'm a bit more inclined to believe it.



From what Tric has hinted, I think the antisocial unjester must be an additional wincon for one town player. If they weren't antisocial this wouldn't be an issue, but as it stands, we need to find them and make sure they're not accidentally killed. If the fruit festival survives into N1, this could buy us a bit more time.

I think Max's idea of flipping Fallacy first to find out the hidden roles makes a lot of sense... if we get told the roles on flip.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 03, 2023, 10:15:34 am
How fucking bizarre that I know that NQT is lying with information that I know he has because we're Coworkers.

NQT, you literally know that's how False works because that's exactly how False was explained IN OUR COWORKER CHAT.

@TricMagic, would False show up as a duplicate of another role?
Hold up, I might have posted this morning with a fuzzy recollection. OK unvote, it looks like I totally misread Tric's reply in our co-worker chat (sent late night NQT-time) and that is confirmed to be how it works.

I should always re-read things in the morning... this is like a lesser version of that robot pirate catgirl misreading incident all over again. I just get into a manic posting frenzy sometimes and need to slow my roll.

Web's right, we're co-workers. That comes from my role. I'm also the poisoner and the governor, so I can't be the jester or King. Your move Fluffe.

This interaction seems odd to me... On top of the sudden 'this is the rest of our claim', it just tickles at something in my head...

Max on Zemaj, getting rid of fruit festival (why? because it's annoying? But it'll stop the N1 kill, so why does Max want to get rid?)
Wait, it works on kills?

I assume so! Here's what mafia wiki says:

Quote
Fruit Festival is a role that allows you to replace all actions that night with a Fruit Vendor action. An action with multiple targets will each turn into their own Fruit Vendor action.

I'm guessing it's one-shot.If someone has the Strong role due to Jim strengthening them, they would still act, but it probably wouldn't line up to make anyone strong before N1, unless Jim's action is a day power.

Also, NQT, web: At the very least, that's not how False normally works. A False role according to the wiki Tric's using just doesn't do anything, it doesn't pretend to be a different role.

never mind, I guess? posting anyway.
Yeah that's why I confused myself. But Web's right, Tric does appear to say otherwise in our chat.

Hmmm... so if me or webadict fired off Fruit Festival on subsequent nights, wouldn't that tell us which is false?  If we are primarily worried about the Anti-Social Unjester, then that should elucidate AND/OR halt all night-actions, preventing ASUnJester from getting killed.

Max, I should note it seems from our flavour that the co-worker is coming from my role. Web is most likely False + Something masquerading as Fruit + Dark Creature or something masquerading as dark creature.


I don't really get the purpose of this action. It only very tenuously precommits you to the claim. You could easily have prepared lots of fakeclaims and hidden them in different ways — this one would even have worked equally well for Parrot, Post Restriction, Creature, and Conduit if you wanted to be one of them.
You could equally have used the first paragraph's T and E, or the last paragraph's B, or...

Have to agree with Max on this... that seems just a little overly non-committal.  Granted, soft-claim, but usually there are only one or two ways to interpret that, not so much mix-and-match possible.

Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours
I don't think you can be.
Nobody has two role slots outstanding. If Fallacy is the Antisocial Unjester, who's Hidden? If Zemaj is and lying about being fruity, who's False? Presumably notquitethere knows webadict isn't lying about his role, and presumably webadict knows notquitethere isn't lying about his.

I'm fairly positive Coworkers are typically not given each others roles or alignment, they just share a chat. (Yep, NQT confirmed here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181493.msg8465983#msg8465983))

Tric has essentially confirmed that Web is fake-fruit, real dark creature.

Ok read through all the posts now im the Mysterious (Conduit) Janitor Parrot anyway I gotta do school stuff so ill be activish in like a couple of hours
I don't think you can be.
No one has counterclaimed these and I guessed this combo earlier:

(my bet is the flavour is a weird vulture)

(Vulture = Janitor: destroy bodies + parrot, weird = mysterious conduit)

So either:

2. Fluffe is lying: one of his claimed roles is Fallacy's hidden role, and one of his claimed roles is Web's faked role, and he is the unjester
3. Hidden works differently to how we assume and Fallacy is somehow the unjester

BTW: That would make the other of webadict or zemaj the King. In that case, we need to know whether lynching a Hidden player reveals the full role; if so, we should lynch Fallacy to reveal his role, telling us which of the two has the False role. Then we know to lynch the other one.
Yes Zemaj in particular has a unclaimed role element which he is being obscure about, and so might be King (or scum, loaning a safe claim to a King partner, as Max has suggested).

Zemaj, would you be able to paraphrase your flavour text?

I've been trying, but I really am at a loss for what Tric is getting at with it... I am waiting to post it at endgame, and get some fucking clarification on what the hell this is... mostly reads like RP about it being dark and confusing in the location I am in, but there are other bits that just seem to contradict, so I really am at a loss.  I SUPPOSE that might be False, but I would have said Hidden more likely, but I have two other roles, so its definitely not Hidden.

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 03, 2023, 10:28:46 am
I have a spiteful confession to make.

As there is zero free claim space in this setup, I would like to note that actually, I am the real King. webadict is the actual Enchantress.

We will be shooting the Antijester tonight. Trust me, it’s better for everyone this way.
Title: I have angered a karmic deity from the Outer Planes that seeks retribution.
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:30:39 am
...No.  I'm the King, and I want the Anti-Jester to win, so we should just vote out NQT and do that.

Everyone wants the Anti Jester to win.

#fuckthisgame
#braindead
#antijester4lyfe
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 10:31:39 am
OK so these are the remaining unclaimed bits, plus Fluffe's safe last claim:

(Parrot
Conduit
Janitor)

King
Antisocial
Unjester
False

If Web is truly False with a hidden real role (as Tric appears to have implemented it), then the true role must either be King OR Fluffe is lying and it's one of Fluffe's things.

We eliminated Fluffe today either way I think and then Web D2.




Yeah I could have done the crumbing better / less ambiguous. I was expecting to claim last so I didn't think it'd matter. I didn't put much thought into it, was just a last moment thing I edited my paragraphs to include. I'm not lying, so there's not really more that can be said about this. I'll remember for next time I guess.


PPE: okay wow, demoralised scum due to the setup! Fallacy, I am disappointed in you that you're not playing to your wincon.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:34:01 am
What are you even talking about NQT?

We want Town to lose.  That's our wincon.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2023, 10:34:29 am
I mean, it was obviously FoU and Web. I don't know why these games exist the previous one was just as broken and I cared just as much.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:35:28 am
I mean, it was obviously FoU and Web. I don't know why these games exist the previous one was just as broken and I cared just as much.
Let's get Fluffe the wiiiiiin
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 10:36:10 am
I'm glad my instincts were right and there really was something off with Webadict and Fallacy!

I had the specific off, but I would have got there:

Anyway, shooting from the hip, Web is Jester, Zemaj + Fallacy are the scum team. GG everyone.

Jim, Toony, Max were always lock town for me, so scum didn't have much room to hide. Now it's probable they're both lying about the specifics again.

What are you even talking about NQT?

We want Town to lose.  That's our wincon.
Really? I mean, it's my fault for signing up to a low-info Tric game where he doesn't even list possible wincons in the OP, but I'd be disappointed to learn that the mafia win just by shooting the one person who wants to be shot.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 03, 2023, 10:36:46 am
It’s less demoralized and more antimoralized.

Game is too easily broken by massclaim. This is a spiteful action, not a depressed one.

After all. If we weren’t going to be able to win, may as well make sure Town can’t either.

I don’t believe any roles exist that can prevent the Antijester from being shot.

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2023, 10:37:48 am
Did I submit the Unjester?

Yeah, I claim 50% credit on this chicanery.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 10:38:13 am
Fruit festival stops it tonight, which buys town time for eliminating two mafia. Unless something else plays into this, I think town wins this one outright.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 10:38:46 am
You can save us time and both concede now if you like?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:39:41 am
Right, lol, we're playing to our only out.

This isn't chess anymore.  It's Russian Roulette.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:40:49 am
Regardless, I'm the King, you should be voting me.  I'm even the Dark Creature and Poisoner.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2023, 10:41:29 am
So what, this comes down to who the real Fruitfucker is when not even the player themselves know? Awesome.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:42:32 am
So what, this comes down to who the real Fruitfucker is when not even the player themselves know? Awesome.
Sign up for BYOR 16 and I promise to never make this a fucking decision ever!
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 10:43:10 am
Actually, Enchantress might trump the Fruit Festival, so maybe we eliminate the jester today?


ppe: Webadict isn't the poisoner, I'm the poisoner. Dark Creatures can poison. With any luck, the scum team have a poison instead of a mafiakill.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 03, 2023, 10:43:40 am
Say it with me

Setups without claim space may as well be Mountainous.

Do we remember Hat Mafia? I think we do. Exact same flavor of mess.

So what, this comes down to who the real Fruitfucker is when not even the player themselves know? Awesome.
Yes.

Regardless, I'm the King, you should be voting me.  I'm even the Dark Creature and Poisoner.
No, I’m the King. You’re the Enchantress. All other roles subject to debate.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 10:45:43 am
Setups without claim space may as well be Mountainous.
This we can agree on. The first step to fix this setup would be to get each player to submit 3 roles and give them 2, to give plenty of wiggle room for fake claims.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:46:42 am
This game was brought to you by the letter K, for King and Kill Me, Kan The Anti-Jester Win?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:48:27 am
Setups without claim space may as well be Mountainous.
This we can agree on. The first step to fix this setup would be to get each player to submit 3 roles and give them 2, to give plenty of wiggle room for fake claims.
This setup could've been better with a lot of decision, but we are here now, this is our life, and the only way to stop it is by voting me.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 10:49:52 am
Fluffe must be the anti-Jester, as the last claimant. Fallacy and Web must know that he fakeclaimed (or maybe Fallacy really has hidden and doesn't know about one of the elements), Zemaj is a janitor and doesn't know it because he can't discern the flavour.

Also I just realised it's also the janitor that makes this a bastard: hoping for flip info is pointless when the janitor is cleaning away bodies.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 10:53:38 am
See?  NQT has no care for the Anti-Jester!  What a harsh reality we live in!
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2023, 10:56:21 am
Hat
Hats...hats.....hate.....haatatatsta

HATS HATS HATS HATSHATS HATSHEHATESITHATSHATSHATSHATS HATS HATS

MORE HATS MORE MORE HEADWEAR

Hats protect from the sun

Protect from the cold

Toony nedd hats
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 03, 2023, 10:57:14 am
I think I am no good at role madness games like this. Bring 1 will at least benefit, I suppose. If I even run it after this.

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 03, 2023, 10:58:37 am
wow....

so yeah... totally called this.  Mass-claim D1?  Ridiculous...
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2023, 10:59:11 am
NQT think big. NQT no be able to wear hats with head so big
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 11:00:00 am
(https://i.imgur.com/b62CsXR.png)

Once again, I'm the boring stick-to-my-stated-wincon guy. Ugh, what a role to fill.

(No more zany open setups, Bay12 forum has progressed beyond the need for it.)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 03, 2023, 11:03:47 am
Must, fight, hats -

Neeed hatssssss

NQt have hats to give. Kill NQT. Take hats.



Aside - good setup design requires that a massclaim be both uncertain - the scum need space to hide - and costly for the town. It needs to be something with benefits and drawbacks for both sides.

Highly benefits the town and hurts the scum is unbalanced. Highly benefits the scum and hurts the town is suitable for a bastard or complex closed setup game. The rest should be somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 03, 2023, 11:06:15 am
I'm glad my decision to not think about this game very hard has been vindicated.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 11:07:10 am
Jester Hats For All!

Okay, technically for one, but we all get to bask in the holy Anti-Jester light

I'm glad my decision to not think about this game very hard has been vindicated.
Thinking is for chumps!
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 11:07:43 am
I'm glad my decision to not think about this game very hard has been vindicated.
I made a spreadsheet  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 03, 2023, 11:17:54 am
I think I am no good at role madness games like this. Bring 1 will at least benefit, I suppose. If I even run it after this.

(No more zany open setups, Bay12 forum has progressed beyond the need for it.)

I played with a group that had a 'No D1 claims' rule.  It didn't work well, usually, but this game may have benefited from something like that.  Need to have a way to make it so that open-setup cannot just be hacked/broken by over-sharing info and PoE.  "Players can claim no more than 1 role (per day?)" might work
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 11:25:14 am
You know the massclaim didn't stop the mafia from winning, right? You guys had no reason to do anything.

I played with a group that had a 'No D1 claims' rule.  It didn't work well, usually, but this game may have benefited from something like that.  Need to have a way to make it so that open-setup cannot just be hacked/broken by over-sharing info and PoE.  "Players can claim no more than 1 role (per day?)" might work
That's the dumbest rule ever and I will personally murder and cannibalize anyone who recommends it.

Anyway, I'll be bussing the antijester with webadict tonight. :D
(https://i.imgur.com/b62CsXR.png)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 11:30:08 am
The Town could actively choose to fuck around for two Days, and I still think they would have a decent chance of winning.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 03, 2023, 11:32:36 am
The Town could actively choose to fuck around for two Days, and I still think they would have a decent chance of winning.
Prove it

Hatless
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 03, 2023, 11:34:20 am
The Town could actively choose to fuck around for two Days, and I still think they would have a decent chance of winning.
Prove it

Hatless
:O
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 03, 2023, 11:47:37 am
Fluffe must be the anti-Jester, as the last claimant. Fallacy and Web must know that he fakeclaimed (or maybe Fallacy really has hidden and doesn't know about one of the elements), Zemaj is a janitor and doesn't know it because he can't discern the flavour.

Also I just realised it's also the janitor that makes this a bastard: hoping for flip info is pointless when the janitor is cleaning away bodies.
Ya do know not a single person has counterclaimed a single one of my roles right? And the only reason im the last claimant is cause you took a entire day to claim your roles when my criteria for claiming was you doing exactly that?

Know what that's it give me your hat Notquitethere
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 11:56:44 am
I explained exactly how that can be, Fluffe, with the hidden, false roles, and mafia lying.

If you're telling the truth, then one of Fallacy and Web must also be the unjester on top of being mafia. That'd be funny, and would explain how they're so certain of their plan.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 03, 2023, 12:01:27 pm
This is getting silly. Anyway 4/8 players are on team-throw-the-game, so this day is a wash. I'm going to assume hammers are in effect and end the day on me NQT. That should be 5/8 votes. See you all on D2.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 03, 2023, 12:11:37 pm
Changing my vote to Fallacy assuming NQT aint hammered.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 03, 2023, 12:22:09 pm
Not sure why NQT is pulling such a dumbass move, but if the mafia want to be petulant and town can't even be bothered to fight back, I'm just out.

By the way, Tric said that a town Antisocial Unjester would win the game "for town", which presumably applies to other teams as well, so trying to subvert the win condition wouldn't even have worked. Idiots.
How fucking bizarre that I know that NQT is lying with information that I know he has because we're Coworkers.

NQT, you literally know that's how False works because that's exactly how False was explained IN OUR COWORKER CHAT.

@TricMagic, would False show up as a duplicate of another role?

Also, TricMagic, which roles are explicitly an alignment?

False can appear as another role, yes. Or it could be 0% on a known role. RNG.
No Roles are alignment indicative. It is entirely possible to have a Townie Antisocial that wins town the game if night-killed. RNG.

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Loading World 1) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 03, 2023, 02:21:32 pm
Checking for hammer.


Yep, that's a hammer.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Twilit) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 03, 2023, 03:06:42 pm
Chaos is had as accusations are made, some give up as this place seems like it has no way out, and others plot. Eventually, NQT declares this to be pointless, and just steps off the edge to fall. Before being caught in a bubble as the land crumbles and everyone falls down into some sort of wireframe space with them.

Day 1 has ended. NQT has been pardoned. Night 1 will end in 24 hours, or when all actions are sent.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2023, 11:02:51 am
The time of darkness lefts, revealing the same grassland made out of code. Why?
The core looms slightly closer, but none have fallen overnight.

Day 2 has Begun. It will end in 72 Hours on Friday.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 04, 2023, 11:16:31 am
It's day 1, Part 2, electric boogaloo. Let's stop playing silly buggers and just get rid of Fallacy this time.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 11:40:02 am
notquitethere

Because he doesn't want the Anti-Jester dead.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 11:40:50 am
Also, you're voting wrong.  I'm the King.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 04, 2023, 11:46:12 am
It's day 1, Part 2, electric boogaloo. Let's stop playing silly buggers and just get rid of Fallacy this time.

While I totally agree in principle, I'm going to go ahead and split the vote to ensure a full days discussion.

webadict


So, I didn't Fruit Festival last night, opting for an Arsonist action, which went through.  As such, I'm wondering if scum really did just give up, or if they are playing at something bigger, as we have no corpse.  Conversation in-thread seems to favor the former, but my suspicion doesn't allow for such an easy win, even with bad feelings.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 04, 2023, 11:59:21 am
Ok so here is what I think happened as I said earlier im the Mysterious Janitor Parrot but I never actually explained what that means as far as what I can do. You see im able to charge people both living and dead with a mysterious energy this forces them to use their active ability on themselves if alive I used it on Fallacy last night and since he is the Enchantress this means that he was not able to kill anyone because he literally blocked himself. I propose we lynch web today and then I can use my energy on Fallacy a second time then we lynch him the next day to be extra safe incase of some mafia+antijester sheniganry giving us the win.


webadict
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 12:00:23 pm
You're putting more thought into this than necessary.  We mafiakilled Fluffe, so I'm okay with voting out Max so he'll stop doing that.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 12:04:48 pm
Also, Fluffe is lying because FoU was the killer.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 04, 2023, 12:09:17 pm
Webadict
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 04, 2023, 12:15:24 pm
You're putting more thought into this than necessary.  We mafiakilled Fluffe, so I'm okay with voting out Max so he'll stop doing that.
Also, Fluffe is lying because FoU was the killer.

Webadict used confusion! It's super effective!
(https://i.ibb.co/b7gX6Sm/Im-Confused.png)
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2023, 12:35:05 pm
I'm the King of the Pirates.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 04, 2023, 01:02:09 pm
Somebody tell me what to do to make a permanent stalemate in this game.

Because while having winners and losers and things eventually ending is nice, things lasting forever is better.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 01:04:59 pm
Somebody tell me what to do to make a permanent stalemate in this game.

Because while having winners and losers and things eventually ending is nice, things lasting forever is better.
Do absolutely nothing and continuously hammer no execute
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 04, 2023, 01:22:22 pm
Y’all are voting wrong. I’m the King.

Of the Mafia. Not the Pirates.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 02:44:29 pm
Seriously, though, if you're taking this game seriously, you clearly do not understand this game because this game was fucked from the beginning, and you should literally just vote randomly or bandwagon as fast as possible to end the game, because any amount of effort put into this game above that is wasted, and I say that in the nicest possible way.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: TricMagic on April 04, 2023, 03:07:56 pm
Vote to lynch the Mod if you want the game to end.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 04, 2023, 03:53:34 pm
I'm the King of the Pirates.
You sure are Toony!
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 04, 2023, 04:02:24 pm
So, moving past the self-confirmed scumteam still posting in-thread for... reasons...

I don't care how borked things are, we can still make a game of this if we just keep going, and seeing as how this game was queued for several months, it seems a shame to not at least do the thing that we signed up to do, knowing it was a role-madness game, which is ridiculously easy to break.  IMO.  Feel free to disagree.



Did anyone else even submit night actions?  I claimed mine, thinking I would let the target come forward to verify...

It is assumable that Fluffe was straight-up about his claimed actions, since webadict was nice enough to pretty much confirm it.

The ASUnJester is still loose, but we can account for that, and maybe even come up with some WIFOM for why the scumteam is so keen to just end this, posthaste. 

Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2023, 04:53:23 pm
I have no night action.

For you see.

I'm made of wood, how did that happen? Yohoho, took a bite of Tree-Tree.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 04:56:19 pm
Hey, ain't no law saying I can't.  If you guys wanna help get the Anti-Jester killed, I'm all for it!  But, it's gotta be a team effort, because we can't do it alone.

Like, seriously, we can't do it alone, otherwise, we would.

I have no night action.

For you see.

I'm made of wood, how did that happen? Yohoho, took a bite of Tree-Tree.
This is the greatest shitpost I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 04, 2023, 04:57:35 pm
So, I didn't Fruit Festival last night, opting for an Arsonist action, which went through.
Interesting. Who did you target?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 04, 2023, 05:39:39 pm
So, I didn't Fruit Festival last night, opting for an Arsonist action, which went through.
Interesting. Who did you target?

I'm assuming that is rhetorical...


But then again, maybe not.  I targeted you for Prime, Max.  Why you?  Because I'm fairly certain you are town, and you seemed the most into the idea of just calling it of the town.  If it got you, its less liability for town, since you may have just not posted again.

Also, I felt like you could probably use some lubing... just playing to a hunch.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: zemaj on April 04, 2023, 05:47:51 pm
I have no night action.

For you see.

I'm made of wood, how did that happen? Yohoho, took a bite of Tree-Tree.

WOOT WOOT!  STUMPY FTW!

enjoy shitposting the rest of the game with no discernable consequence. :D
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 04, 2023, 06:04:39 pm
you seemed the most into the idea of just calling it of the town.  If it got you, its less liability for town, since you may have just not posted again.
I wanted to quit when I thought NQT was giving up, but when I saw that he wasn't actually lynched (I don't actually remember what roles do by name, okay) I changed my mind.

I still wouldn't have wanted to "just call it", though. I would have wanted to leave the game in perpetual limbo to deny the scumteam the satisfaction.

I don't know what you mean about lubing but it made me slightly uncomfortable, so there's that.

And yeah, you hit me. I wanted to find out A) if you'd admit it and B) if you were redirected or something. Although I think I might be the only one with redirection, not counting the conduit thing Fluffe claimed?

Which reminds me, uhhh, Toony, pass me a meme
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: notquitethere on April 04, 2023, 06:22:24 pm
Sorry Max for not being clearer when I self-voted. I never give up.

I tried poisoning scum, but my action was blocked.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 04, 2023, 06:23:02 pm
Hm.

Seriously, though, if you're taking this game seriously, you clearly do not understand this game because this game was fucked from the beginning, and you should literally just vote randomly or bandwagon as fast as possible to end the game, because any amount of effort put into this game above that is wasted, and I say that in the nicest possible way.

Broken shit can be fun.

It has to be flexible broken shit, though.

A game with no claim space and a clear path to victory for town from Day 1? Not flexible.

So here's what's gonna happen

Either we work together to kill the Antijester

Or we vote TricMagic

Or if there is no cooperation I'll vote to forfeit in scumchat and we'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 04, 2023, 06:30:33 pm
Normally I'd absolutely do my best to play in good faith.

I think I agree with web, though. This game was broken from the start.

I don't think any path to victory existed for the scum (us), thanks to the nigh-nonexistent claim space.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 04, 2023, 06:33:28 pm
Sorry Max for not being clearer when I self-voted. I never give up.

I tried poisoning scum, but my action was blocked.
Thanks, I now know all the roles in the game. Although I was right in my assumptions anyway.

We could lynch the Unjester, but I think he might actually be town.
webadict
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 06:36:14 pm
Normally I'd absolutely do my best to play in good faith.

I think I agree with web, though. This game was broken from the start.

I don't think any path to victory existed for the scum (us), thanks to the nigh-nonexistent claim space.
Yeah, I did the math and it was nearly mathematically impossible for scum to win, regardless of all other conditions.

We haven't proven even that you could fuck around Today and still have the Town win.

Anyway, Toony/Jim, if you want the game to end, you can vote me, I'm the King.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 04, 2023, 07:08:11 pm
Ill be honest before this first started I assumed only two roles out of three would be given out to each player to kinda prevent this exact scenario from happening
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2023, 10:33:15 pm
Aye, the King may die but the age of the pirates will never end!!
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2023, 10:36:34 pm
Which reminds me, uhhh, Toony, pass me a meme
Smee? Smee smee. Smee smee smee.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2023, 10:38:27 pm
Normally I'd absolutely do my best to play in good faith.

I think I agree with web, though. This game was broken from the start.

I don't think any path to victory existed for the scum (us), thanks to the nigh-nonexistent claim space.
Yeah, I did the math and it was nearly mathematically impossible for scum to win, regardless of all other conditions.
I'm something of a scientist myself.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 04, 2023, 10:43:06 pm
Seriously, though, if you're taking this game seriously

zzzzzzzz

Anyway, Toony/Jim, if you want the game to end, you can vote me, I'm the King.

zzzzzzzzzz

I can't even find the effort to shitpost.

webadict sure whatever

I mean I think webadict should have been hammered already since ToonyMan is apparently a stump and therefore wouldn't have a vote and there are four votes already on webadict which would be majority.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: ToonyMan on April 04, 2023, 10:46:54 pm
I'm not a stump until I die then I'll lose my vote. I just haven't voted today.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 04, 2023, 10:56:53 pm
BLAAAAARGH!!!

I am dead.

The Mafia is no more.

I iz King.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 05, 2023, 01:19:38 am
You fools! Little did you realize, that I am not actually the King! In fact, webadict was the King all along, and you have just ended the game! Woe be upon you!
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 05, 2023, 07:11:23 am
So did you guys really think Fluffe was the unjester?
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: Skynet on April 09, 2023, 07:18:46 am
Bumping this thread to ask who exactly is the Unjester. My best guess is that it's Fluffe, but it's very possible that the Unjester was a Hidden role (making it even more difficult for the Mafia to throw the game).
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Day 2 Repeating) 8/8
Post by: webadict on April 09, 2023, 07:49:49 am
It was zemaj
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Crash Report Log)
Post by: TricMagic on April 09, 2023, 08:28:01 am
Being honest. Mafia self-destructs, and hackers shut down the CORE. Everyone is happy. And the Jester gets defused.

And yeah, zemaj. Crash and Burned.
Title: Re: Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate (Crash Report Log)
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on April 09, 2023, 10:00:05 am
*looks at thread*

Is this why it’s called “bastard modding”?