{AP1} (Night, Mafiakill) Mafiakill [target]: Kill the target.
Tags: Kill
- Semi-hammers in effect. If a player receives a majority of votes, the Day ends and the player is chosen for execution immediately. If you accidentally post something after the hammer, you MUST edit your post and remove all content.
All players. No more discussion is to be had after hammer has fallen.Quote from: Webadict- Semi-hammers in effect. If a player receives a majority of votes, the Day ends and the player is chosen for execution immediately. If you accidentally post something after the hammer, you MUST edit your post and remove all content.
Does this apply only to the person who got hammered, or does it apply to anyone who posted after the hammer?
Also, how do we provide the information mentioned in the OP (role, etc.)? Do we post it in the thread?You send the information to the game mod (webadict) via PM.
Also, how do we provide the information mentioned in the OP (role, etc.)? Do we post it in the thread?PM me your role name and any additional information you deem necessary (Some people give additional information or links for context.)
How hard should I shitpost when I submit my roleIt would be pretty hard to shitpost harder than I did
How hard should I shitpost when I submit my roleIt would be pretty hard to shitpost harder than I did
When you signup, you may choose up to 2 Action types to be added to your role from the following list: [Super, Copy, Hide, Bus, Block, Redirect, Protect, Kill, Recruit, Inspect, Learn, Watch, Track, Delay, Motivate, Randomize, Gift, Auto, Evolve, Vote]
Goddammit webadict I have family visiting soon and probably shouldn’t play mafia whole they’re here so stop making games so interesting looking.Sure thing, however, these will only be brief descriptions, and subject to interpretation by me and how I'd envision a role to be:
Edit:QuoteWhen you signup, you may choose up to 2 Action types to be added to your role from the following list: [Super, Copy, Hide, Bus, Block, Redirect, Protect, Kill, Recruit, Inspect, Learn, Watch, Track, Delay, Motivate, Randomize, Gift, Auto, Evolve, Vote]
D’ya mind giving us a rundown of what to expect from each thing? They’re mostly self-explanatory, but I have learned not to make assumptions in your games, usually after the fact…
Teenage Mutant Antisocial… UnjesterIsn't that just a normal teenager?
Oldheads assemble! We need Persus13, TheDarkStar, Flabort, Shakerag, Deathsword, IcyTea, TheBiggerFish... and Tiruin!
(If you say people's names sometimes they beetlejuice in. Bunch of vanity searchers.)
WHY ARE YOU A THIRD PARTYyou started it.
Ill be number 14! InYou need to send me a role. I'll let you stay in if you send it to me before the end of the day.
Pinky promise to help Town win again?WHY ARE YOU A THIRD PARTYyou started it.
Only if I'm Town or Town-ally again.Pinky promise to help Town win again?WHY ARE YOU A THIRD PARTYyou started it.
Be a Dragon instead. Get the biggest hat.Eldritch monsters get bigger hats than Dragons.
Anyone looking to sign-up, sign-ups end tomorrow, and then the game will start on or around April 16th.
Though why anyone would start a game on a Sunday is beyond me.
depends on where you are. some places start the week on Monday for example.Though why anyone would start a game on a Sunday is beyond me.
Because it’s the first day of the week?…
WHEN GAME>:|Anyone looking to sign-up, sign-ups end tomorrow, and then the game will start on or around April 16th.
. . .
. . .
. . .
. . .
WHEN GAME
Though why anyone would start a game on a Sunday is beyond me.Didn't think I'd have enough time to start on Saturday, or I would've. Pretty sure we're starting Sunday night, to make sure the roles are done.
Oh God, what did I sign up for? :'(
A total nightmare?Hats!
A total nightmare?
Hats!So a hatmare. got it.
What did you doOh God, what did I sign up for? :'(A total nightmare?Hats!
Are the cost changes global, affecting every player, or do they only have an effect on the player that changes the cost?They are only affecting the Action used. Anything globally affecting AP costs will be broadcast globally.
What did you doWait till you see what I did. I anticipate it will be interesting.
game start when?
Game should start in less than six hours.
eh. if I gotta go to sleep before it starts, don't kill me while I'm at work
We all know the day will be over before we wake up.eh. if I gotta go to sleep before it starts, don't kill me while I'm at work
Sure………
WUBA WUBA WUBA
WUBA WUBA WUBA
Policy lynch chasing is a scum tell.so is performing policy-lynch-worthy behaviors.
What does “WUBA WUBA WUBA” mean?Webadict
Wow this floor is really shiny.is it made of floor?
it is made of starlight.Wow this floor is really shiny.is it made of floor?
But if it's a god shouldn't we be stabbing it?it is made of starlight.Wow this floor is really shiny.is it made of floor?
We should worship it as a wise and merciful god.
how do you stab starlight?But if it's a god shouldn't we be stabbing it?it is made of starlight.Wow this floor is really shiny.is it made of floor?
We should worship it as a wise and merciful god.
DETERMINATIONhow do you stab starlight?But if it's a god shouldn't we be stabbing it?it is made of starlight.Wow this floor is really shiny.is it made of floor?
We should worship it as a wise and merciful god.
Alright Frisk, I guess it’s a genocide run then…DETERMINATIONhow do you stab starlight?But if it's a god shouldn't we be stabbing it?it is made of starlight.Wow this floor is really shiny.is it made of floor?
We should worship it as a wise and merciful god.
is mafia ever anything else?Alright Frisk, I guess it’s a genocide run then…DETERMINATIONhow do you stab starlight?But if it's a god shouldn't we be stabbing it?it is made of starlight.Wow this floor is really shiny.is it made of floor?
We should worship it as a wise and merciful god.
Some folks like to try an “everybody wins” route.is mafia ever anything else?Alright Frisk, I guess it’s a genocide run then…DETERMINATIONhow do you stab starlight?But if it's a god shouldn't we be stabbing it?it is made of starlight.Wow this floor is really shiny.is it made of floor?
We should worship it as a wise and merciful god.
Do not be alarmed.
Everything is fine.
Do not worry.
Report anomalies to your local authorities.
What does “WUBA WUBA WUBA” mean?
It is a nickname for our glorious moderator.
Also the noise a floor buffer makes.
What does “WUBA WUBA WUBA” mean?Webadict
Web adict
wub a
wuba
wuba wuba wuba
TricMagic: Explain. Now.
The power level of this particular game may be unreasonably high.
Knightwing64, hector13, and FallacyofUrist:
Are you sure it doesn’t stand for “We (scum) will UnBalance the game Altogether”?
You’re not scum, are you? ???
The power level of this particular game may be unreasonably high.Is this good or bad for finding scum?
The power level of this particular game may be unreasonably high.Is this good or bad for finding scum?
Bad, since the sheer absurdity and confusion will interfere with attempts to form reads.
I'm pretty sure I'm town.
Fallacy:
[1] I generally concur. Vanilla-adjacent setups certainly leave everyone with mere analysis of words and vote patterns. While role madness games can lead to scum getting caught out in an unforeseen contradiction, sometimes all you get is !!FUN!! and insanity.I'm pretty sure I'm town.
[2] ...pretty sure? How's that?
What does “WUBA WUBA WUBA” mean?It is a nickname for our glorious moderator.
Also the noise a floor buffer makes.What does “WUBA WUBA WUBA” mean?Webadict
Web adict
wub a
wuba
wuba wuba wuba
Knightwing64, hector13, and FallacyofUrist:
Are you sure it doesn’t stand for “We (scum) will UnBalance the game Altogether”?
You’re not scum, are you? ???
FoU third time’s the charm eh. Maybe we’ll be on the same team this time..? What do you think the setup is with a whole 15 players?Absolute hot garbagio. Nothing about this game is going to be reasonable. The heavens are rumbling and preparing to smite us all.
NQT and juicebox and MaxSpin: I already asked FoU, but now I’ll ask you and try to get away with asking the same question to a quarter of the town: what do you think the setup is in terms of alignment spread?
I’d like to be on a team with FoU, even if it had to be scum. I enjoy playing mafia with him.Noted.
FoU does your role indicate in what manner alignments may change?No. It just indicates alignment changing is possible.
Toaster and Jim and ToonyMan: who are the players we should be trying to clear first? I was going to ask this to the more experienced players but there are quite a few of you so I guess those three seem to be a decent cross-section for this one…
No. It just indicates alignment changing is possible.
Fallacy:If I were in webadict's place, this setup would have two cult leaders, one direct serial killer and one indirect serial killer.No. It just indicates alignment changing is possible.
I hate cults.
Ask me questions too, or you won't have a leg to stand on.No
You may or not regret this.yEs
Toaster: You're shakerag. prove me wrong.
Lenglon:Toaster: When and how did RVS hold together in the first place?Toaster: You're shakerag. prove me wrong.
I thought about it, but no. Also, burden of proof's on you.
At what level of group-refusal to participate does RVS fall apart?
Egan and A Curious Cat (do you mind if I call you Cat? I post exclusively from phone so that’d make my life so much easier) and Fluffe and Knightwing: what do you think is going to be the best way to find scum on D1? What do you think is the best way to find town on D1?
Egan and A Curious Cat (do you mind if I call you Cat? I post exclusively from phone so that’d make my life so much easier) and Fluffe and Knightwing: what do you think is going to be the best way to find scum on D1? What do you think is the best way to find town on D1?
1. Yeah, sure. Knock yourself out.
2. I’m not sure there’s any way to be sure without violating the rule against quoting one’s role PM. Maybe write everyone’s names on separate pieces of paper and put them in a hat? Maybe assign everyone a number from 1 to 15 and use Avrae to roll a 1d15? IIUC, we’ll be in a lot better position once the first person has been lynched. Of course, I could be wrong. I’ve never played Mafia before…
Lenglon: I feel like it's a passable vessel for breaking the ice. It rarely on its own generates real value, and I think it mostly happens because no one has come up with a serviceable alternative that's worth anything. Many many years ago, you'd see practically arbitrary tunneling right out the gate, but it's been a while since I can recall seeing it.
Lenglon:Toaster: You're shakerag. prove me wrong.
I thought about it, but no. Also, burden of proof's on you.
At what level of group-refusal to participate does RVS fall apart?
Lenglon is obvscum. I used my one-shot infallible nuclear awesome day-alignment inspect no-failure-possible ability on her and she's mafia. Everyone vote Lenglon now or I will break your legs.
What’s “shakerag”?Shakerag (uppercase) is a Bay 12 mafia player legendary for submitting roles formatted like 'The BYOR 16 role that makes its user win no matter what and have total immunity to all abilities' to BYOR games.
Are you sure? How do we know you aren’t trying to deceive us? I was going to vote EuchreJack, but I can vote Lenglon if you can convince me.You don't know that, but I am voting Lenglon and you should too, because I used my ultra-awesome-never-fail 100% certain unerring guaranteed true Super day inspect on her.
ONOS! quick!Lenglon: I feel like it's a passable vessel for breaking the ice. It rarely on its own generates real value, and I think it mostly happens because no one has come up with a serviceable alternative that's worth anything. Many many years ago, you'd see practically arbitrary tunneling right out the gate, but it's been a while since I can recall seeing it.
Lenglon is obvscum. I used my one-shot infallible nuclear awesome day-alignment inspect no-failure-possible ability on her and she's mafia. Everyone vote Lenglon now or I will break your legs.
See, even Lenglon thinks you should vote her! It's the foolproof choice! The scumteam is definitely Lenglon Hector TricMagic. This is because my god-magic-super-inspect chained from her and told me everyone else in the scumteam's alignments too.FoU: actual question, why do you think it's a 3-person scumteam in a 15-player game? isn't that a little low?
Jim G: It's been twelve years (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76609.msg1983172#msg1983172). Would you say you've learned enough in this time that you are no longer a newbie?
Fallacy:TricMagic: Explain. Now.
If it's hat related, Tric did it. This is simple logic.
You’re not scum, are you? ???
Toaster and Jim and ToonyMan: who are the players we should be trying to clear first? I was going to ask this to the more experienced players but there are quite a few of you so I guess those three seem to be a decent cross-section for this one…
Hector13: I refuse to tell you if I'm third party right now. How do you feel about that?
Jim: if you could thanos-snap half the players here right now at the cost of also killing yourself, would you? why or why not?
The power level of this particular game may be unreasonably high.Is this good or bad for finding scum?
Bad, since the sheer absurdity and confusion will interfere with attempts to form reads.
RVS is garbage.
Lenglon: I feel like it's a passable vessel for breaking the ice. It rarely on its own generates real value, and I think it mostly happens because no one has come up with a serviceable alternative that's worth anything. Many many years ago, you'd see practically arbitrary tunneling right out the gate, but it's been a while since I can recall seeing it.
Lenglon is obvscum. I used my one-shot infallible nuclear awesome day-alignment inspect no-failure-possible ability on her and she's mafia. Everyone vote Lenglon now or I will break your legs.
See, even Lenglon thinks you should vote her! It's the foolproof choice! The scumteam is definitely Lenglon Hector TricMagic. This is because my god-magic-super-inspect chained from her and told me everyone else in the scumteam's alignments too.
Well, uh, that'd be because there's also another three-person scumteam of EuchreJack, juicebox, and Toaster.
My logic is foolproof.
Cat: while the stage of the game we’re at does include “random” in it, it’s usually a good idea to avoid randomness in choosing who to go after at this point. How do you think we’ll get to the point of choosing who to lynch D1, and how do you intend to contribute to that? How do you intend to make sure you’re not the flip we get information from?
Cat: make a decision, who's being scummier, me or FoU. Vote the scummy one. Right now. (hint: I'm the scummier of the two of us)
See, even Lenglon thinks you should vote her! It's the foolproof choice! The scumteam is definitely Lenglon Hector TricMagic. This is because my god-magic-super-inspect chained from her and told me everyone else in the scumteam's alignments too.
Jim: are you a double-voter?
Cat: Absolutely nothing. I don't want to be voted or lynched. Now vote the scummy person.Cat: make a decision, who's being scummier, me or FoU. Vote the scummy one. Right now. (hint: I'm the scummier of the two of us)
I smell a trap. I think I’ll think a bit before making my decision.
Lenglon: what benefit would you gain if I voted to lynch you? Are you some sort of jester where the town will lose if we lynch you?
Yes. My ultra-powerful-always-accurate-checker of vibes indicates that you are trustworthy and have a strong limited-shot ability in your role.See, even Lenglon thinks you should vote her! It's the foolproof choice! The scumteam is definitely Lenglon Hector TricMagic. This is because my god-magic-super-inspect chained from her and told me everyone else in the scumteam's alignments too.
You’ll need to convince me concerning your “god-magic-super-inspect” first, however I’m currently leaning towards lynching her…
Does your ability say anything about me?
You’re not scum, are you? ???
Tell me how much experience you have playing forum mafia because your first post bothers me.
Also, don’t you need to unvote EuchreJack before you vote Lenglon? Or can you vote both at the same time? I’d probably vote both of them if I could…Cat: then why are you voting neither? A vote unused doesn't accomplish anything now does it? Vote scum!
Also, don’t you need to unvote EuchreJack before you vote Lenglon? Or can you vote both at the same time? I’d probably vote both of them if I could…Cat: then why are you voting neither? A vote unused doesn't accomplish anything now does it? Vote scum!
hector:Toaster and Jim and ToonyMan: who are the players we should be trying to clear first? I was going to ask this to the more experienced players but there are quite a few of you so I guess those three seem to be a decent cross-section for this one…
Far too early to worry about individual players, really, and I'm not really into clearing a specific person anyway. If the question you're trying to ask is "who's generally hard to read" then I'll give you... oh, Fallacy, Toony, and Jim. Fallacy can be unpredictable, Toony I've watched some great play in the Mafiascum tournament, and Jim is good at driving a thought process if he's invested, though his investment is fickle.
ACC (A_Curious_Cat)
Also because of their over-cautious play re:voting Lenglon. It takes 9 to hammer and I think we’ve only had 6 players post so far. Admittedly I think 4 of them are voting Lenglon, but still…
PPE: you don’t have to unvote before voting someone else. Your most recent vote counts, unless you hammer someone in a post even if you change to someone else in it. One of the KoM games had that happen, which was funny, given the title at stake. It’s an edge case though and I don’t know how webadict would process it.
I get why you’d want to (and now are) voting Lenglon, but why would you also want to vote EuchreJack?
Also, don’t you need to unvote EuchreJack before you vote Lenglon? Or can you vote both at the same time? I’d probably vote both of them if I could…Cat: then why are you voting neither? A vote unused doesn't accomplish anything now does it? Vote scum!
Fine, then!
Ask and ye shall receive:
Lenglon
3. I was wanting to vote them on the basis that, if they were scum, their ability would likely be detrimental to the town. In the absence of other people to lynch, it’s better than nothing.
Now that I’ve typed that, I’m no longer so sure about voting EuchreJack now that I think Lenglon is probably scum.
Also, don’t you need to unvote EuchreJack before you vote Lenglon? Or can you vote both at the same time? I’d probably vote both of them if I could…Cat: then why are you voting neither? A vote unused doesn't accomplish anything now does it? Vote scum!
Fine, then!
Ask and ye shall receive:
Lenglon3. I was wanting to vote them on the basis that, if they were scum, their ability would likely be detrimental to the town. In the absence of other people to lynch, it’s better than nothing.
Now that I’ve typed that, I’m no longer so sure about voting EuchreJack now that I think Lenglon is probably scum.
Cat: Cool. Now say why I'm scum.
Ask me questions too, or you won't have a leg to stand on.No
Cat: okay, so what's the scummy part of me doing/saying that?
- Cat, nice count. Shooting from the hip, who do you think is most likely to be eliminated d1?
HATS!
In answer to why. But for whatever reason, I never received my PM. What's up with that web?
Well, not like being amnesiac would be bad. Or whatever this is.
HATS!
In answer to why. But for whatever reason, I never received my PM. What's up with that web?
Well, not like being amnesiac would be bad. Or whatever this is.
Cat, of course its too early to tell, but attempting to tell tells me about your tells. So make a guess
I’ll also say that if you lynch me you’ll be losing a great ally for the town.
Now that I’ve typed that, I’m no longer so sure about voting EuchreJack now that I think Lenglon is probably scum.
Cat, of course its too early to tell, but attempting to tell tells me about your tells. So make a guess
I’m kinda suspicious of Fallacy and Lenglon (primarily due to what happened starting here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469059#msg8469059)).
Also, can anyone tell me what blue text means? I know red is used when voting to lynch, but I’m not sure about the blue.
That means nothing. Whoever is in the lead early D1 rarely is eliminated. There'll be loads more wagons before the end of day, and (I see Toony is in this game so) probably a frantic mass switch around of votes in the last fifteen minutes. Someone like hector13 is more likely to get eliminated. Guess again.
Apparently the game theme is Four Squared, but we only had 15 players. I propose EuchreJack is the Missing Denominator.
What say you in your double voting defense EuchreJack?
HATS!
In answer to why. But for whatever reason, I never received my PM. What's up with that web?
Well, not like being amnesiac would be bad. Or whatever this is.
Trix the Magic - 100% not mafia
Hey... Fallacy.
Can you do me a flavor and confirm that you are, right now, absolutely definitely 100% unquestionable beyond the shadow of a doubt, town right now?
first postI don't like this post.
first...post?Curious Cat doesn't even seem to be acknowledging the game here. I kind of like that, but I can't tell if they've even read their role from Web yet here. If we assume they have then...
firstNothing stands out to me, could go either way for veteran Toaster.
first, many wordsSo many words. Me like many words and effort.
first postThese seem like very silly questions for "No Fun Allowed" Lenglon to make.
Jim buttering me upI want to say they're town here. I'm pretty good at soulreading Jim 90% of the time.
first postHelpful, I get a good impression at least.
hatsSo town it hurts, or at least, not mafia.
I'm pretty sure I'm town.This is a pretty lukewarm reaction compared to the previous game you were town where I pegged you correctly as town (initially).
Toaster and Jim and ToonyMan: who are the players we should be trying to clear first? I was going to ask this to the more experienced players but there are quite a few of you so I guess those three seem to be a decent cross-section for this one…Me, Toaster, you, Max.
Most likely is 10 town, 3 to 4 mafia, and 1 third party.This does all sound reasonable, but I suspect your confidence in it.
Aside from that, there could be multiple scumteams, a complete absence of mafia (and a lot of hostile third parties), three cult leaders...
Webadict is not afraid at all to mix things up.
The conventional pattern would suggest 10 town, 3-4 mafia, and 1-2 third parties.
Personally I'd bet web has mixed it up this time around, though, since the last few games have been more reasonable.
That means nothing. Whoever is in the lead early D1 rarely is eliminated. There'll be loads more wagons before the end of day, and (I see Toony is in this game so) probably a frantic mass switch around of votes in the last fifteen minutes. Someone like hector13 is more likely to get eliminated. Guess again.Rude.
That's all you've got? Is this TownieMan?I'm trying man. I wanted to say something quickly before making an actual post.
Oooooof sooo tooown.Cat, of course its too early to tell, but attempting to tell tells me about your tells. So make a guess
I’m kinda suspicious of Fallacy and Lenglon (primarily due to what happened starting here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469059#msg8469059)).
Also, can anyone tell me what blue text means? I know red is used when voting to lynch, but I’m not sure about the blue.
Cat, that's interesting though not what I asked. Who you think is currently suspicious has only a small bearing on who will actually be voted out. Probably it is too early to make a good guess, so I'll try and remember to ask when everyone else has posted.Cat, of course its too early to tell, but attempting to tell tells me about your tells. So make a guess
I’m kinda suspicious of Fallacy and Lenglon (primarily due to what happened starting here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469059#msg8469059)).
Good stuff Toony, but probably Fallacy and Lenglon aren't both on the same team. Also am I wrong about end of day?Fair point, I don't see it being likely either.
Fallacy do you think scum, third party, or town will win this game?
My role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?
My role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?I want us to not talk about this.
?
I’m not understanding something here but whatever
These seem like very silly questions for "No Fun Allowed" Lenglon to make.I walk up to Toonyman and lean into his personal space, looking up to him while only just barely not touching him, my hands holding each other behind my back as I sway back and forth.
My role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?It's quite possible.
Errrgh, my one weakness...roleplaying.These seem like very silly questions for "No Fun Allowed" Lenglon to make.I walk up to Toonyman and lean into his personal space, looking up to him while only just barely not touching him, my hands holding each other behind my back as I sway back and forth.
"Toony-kun Toony-kun Toonykun, there's nothing wrong with having a little fun early in the day now is there?"
my left hand drifts out from behind me and slowly traces its way up his right arm
"I might be serious when it comes time to make a proper lynch case later on, but later. is. not. now."
my hand drifts from Toony's shoulder up to before his mouth
"shhhhhhhhh. Let me have my fun."
I pull my hand back behind me and hop backwards one step as my hands re-clasp each other.
"Besides, there might be a method to my madness, you know?"
I spin around and walk away, eyes tracking certain other individuals in the room.
These seem like very silly questions for "No Fun Allowed" Lenglon to make.I walk up to Toonyman and lean into his personal space, looking up to him while only just barely not touching him, my hands holding each other behind my back as I sway back and forth.
"Toony-kun Toony-kun Toonykun, there's nothing wrong with having a little fun early in the day now is there?"
my left hand drifts out from behind me and slowly traces its way up his right arm
"I might be serious when it comes time to make a proper lynch case later on, but later. is. not. now."
my hand drifts from Toony's shoulder up to before his mouth
"shhhhhhhhh. Let me have my fun."
I pull my hand back behind me and hop backwards one step as my hands re-clasp each other.
"Besides, there might be a method to my madness, you know?"
I spin around and walk away, eyes tracking certain other individuals in the room.
AGREED!My role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?I want us to not talk about this.
My role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?It's quite possible.
:o"No."
Is this supposed to help your case?
I don't really have the time to even read this thread, between work, taxes, and No Man's Sky. So I will focus on reading Toony/Jim then deferring my two votes to whomever of them isn't scum."How... disappointing."
I will note, two votes with...god how many are playing, doesn't mean much. I will get more powerful as the game goes on, however.
:oLenglon mentioned third-party in their first post so maybe it happened again like that game they were a mutant pixie and Max was satan.
Is this supposed to help your case?
Eh, but Lenglon loves third parties, and was one in the last game. Less suspicious for Lenglon than anyone else.:oLenglon mentioned third-party in their first post so maybe it happened again like that game they were a mutant pixie and Max was satan.
Is this supposed to help your case?
Knightwing seems town.
Hector13: I refuse to tell you if I'm third party right now. How do you feel about that?Sure.
Tric: How are you going to get yourself lynched by your own teammates?
Jack: prove you aren't juicebox.
Egan: Are you wearing cat ears?
Max: Prove that RVS questions are useful with facts and logic.
Jim: if you could thanos-snap half the players here right now at the cost of also killing yourself, would you? why or why not?
Toaster: You're shakerag. prove me wrong.
Fluffy: Almost all of these questions I'm asking are useless and stupid. Which one is the worst and which one is the closest to actually being worth something and why?
Maximum Spin: If I said I had something in my role that gave me strong indication you were scum, what would you say to that?I would tell you to stop outing your partners in the thread. >:|
(unimportant nonpersons) and MaxSpin: what do you think the setup is in terms of alignment spread?I actually think this question is interesting due to the fourth starting rule — if webadict really did make us four times as likely to be our chosen alignments (if any), that's a big deal. First of all, I would expect it to mean there are a lot of mafia, and possibly that mafia are correspondingly weaker. More importantly, it also means that we can try to divine people into three groups: Likely to choose town, likely to choose mafia, and likely not to choose. I can already think of some players who I would put into each group. With all that said, though, I strongly suspect web has balanced the game enough that we can't assume everyone got his preferred team. I also don't know yet if I believe there are third parties.
PFPI believe you would do that, even though it was clearly not an option, but I also believe webadict would give you a second chance to send in a valid option and you would pick "mafia".
Spin-kun. I tried to choose cult. Because cults are cool. (It didn’t work)
More importantly, it also means that we can try to divine people into three groups: Likely to choose town, likely to choose mafia, and likely not to choose.
I don't trust Curry Carp with any
Which category do think I’m in? What about Curry Carp?You can't pretend not to know and then give away that you know in the same post.I don't trust Curry Carp with any
Why not?
My eyes track Max as I sit down, and I spend some time typing into my phone.(unimportant nonpersons) and MaxSpin: what do you think the setup is in terms of alignment spread?I actually think this question is interesting due to the fourth starting rule — if webadict really did make us four times as likely to be our chosen alignments (if any), that's a big deal. First of all, I would expect it to mean there are a lot of mafia, and possibly that mafia are correspondingly weaker. More importantly, it also means that we can try to divine people into three groups: Likely to choose town, likely to choose mafia, and likely not to choose. I can already think of some players who I would put into each group. With all that said, though, I strongly suspect web has balanced the game enough that we can't assume everyone got his preferred team. I also don't know yet if I believe there are third parties.
I'm oddly comfortable with this ToonyMan. He seems warm, kindly, and loving, perhaps like a Pope.
In contrast, skeevy perv Lenglon creeps me out, perhaps like a Pope.
EuchreJack, if you haven't yet concluded that everyone must have a hat, I don't know how to help you. Everyone in the room is acting painfully obviously like a hat-owner.
I don't trust EuchreJack with a double vote. I don't trust Curry Carp with any votes. I don't think I trust Jim, Toaster, or hector at all, just on principle. I trust Tric to shoot town and/or protect mafia, so he's clearly town.
I bet Fallacy would pick "mafia" this time.
My role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?I want us to not talk about this.
Fallacy did you request third party or scum alignment when joining?See above.
PFP
Spin-kun. I tried to choose cult. Because cults are cool. (It didn’t work)
I'm pretty sure KW is not on a scum team. Either that or he's ignoring them in the chat right now (quite possible).Maybe it's Knightwing/Juicebox/Fluffe.
Anyway Juicebox wagon? Never a bad vote.
unvoteMy role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?I want us to not talk about this.
In response to this, no. No I say Lenglon. We shall talk about this, clear the air, drink a ten gallon hat of wine. That's twice you've denied, three strikes, you're out.
Knightwing, as I said, there exist a multitude of hats. You all have them. I can steal them. The Big Hat Mafia Game has begun. Now get hunting for Mafia. On this note, can guess you aren't mafia if you're asking so openly, so you can keep that one.
Fluffe is going to ping hard if they haven't upped their game from last time. They just exude a sense of wrongness that is just this side of town divide. (When Mafia)I'm pretty sure KW is not on a scum team. Either that or he's ignoring them in the chat right now (quite possible).Maybe it's Knightwing/Juicebox/Fluffe.
Anyway Juicebox wagon? Never a bad vote.
Lenglon, is it really rolefishing? I'm hatfishing. Knightwing seems town enough, so I have no reason to steal their hat. But you actively denied discussion about it. Sure you can say you're trying not to get day 1 discussion bogged down, but I've completely skipped RVS to go to HATStore instead.unvoteMy role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?I want us to not talk about this.
In response to this, no. No I say Lenglon. We shall talk about this, clear the air, drink a ten gallon hat of wine. That's twice you've denied, three strikes, you're out.
Knightwing, as I said, there exist a multitude of hats. You all have them. I can steal them. The Big Hat Mafia Game has begun. Now get hunting for Mafia. On this note, can guess you aren't mafia if you're asking so openly, so you can keep that one.
Tric, please justify your rolefishing.
I said nothing about discussion getting bogged down Tric, don't try to stuff words in my mouth. I said that asking about Hats is rolefishing. If people want to claim their hats then that's on them, but generally people shouldn't roleclaim day 1 without a good reason. You're actively pushing and fishing for the hat part of people's roles without justification. I do think we will want to have a good long hat discussion, but said discussion will probably be best to have on day 2.If there are two things Town Tric is obsessed with, they're hats and roleclaiming.
Okay, I can conceptualize what’s bothering me now, about Max’s logic. Is it valid? Yes. The problem is that it’s fundamentally basing scumminess on something that’s not part of the game state and can only be subjectively argued. It’s unreliable and easy for scum to potentially exploit. I don’t like it for that reason.It would be fair to say that if I'd said that people should be voted solely on account of what category they fall into. On the contrary, I clearly and specifically gave reasons for taking the category concept with a grain of salt. Of course we all know that it isn't certain, so there's no need - and it's certainly not townie, although I think you'd do it either way - to undermine a useful source of evidence.
In case it was missed. Alignment inspection does not work properly on me. Since nobody noted it the first time I said it.I heard you. As a matter of fact, inspection doesn't work properly on me either, for reasons that may become clearer when we get the flavor.
That means nothing. Whoever is in the lead early D1 rarely is eliminated. There'll be loads more wagons before the end of day, and (I see Toony is in this game so) probably a frantic mass switch around of votes in the last fifteen minutes. Someone like hector13 is more likely to get eliminated. Guess again.
AGREED!My role mentions a hat belonging to Tric, also it seems pretty op, is everyone else the same?I want us to not talk about this.
Undoubtedly, someone has a Hat King victory condition. Without more info, that could be bad.
I don't really have the time to even read this thread, between work, taxes, and No Man's Sky. So I will focus on reading Toony/Jim then deferring my two votes to whomever of them isn't scum.
I will note, two votes with...god how many are playing, doesn't mean much. I will get more powerful as the game goes on, however.
:oLenglon mentioned third-party in their first post so maybe it happened again like that game they were a mutant pixie and Max was satan.
Is this supposed to help your case?
Knightwing seems town.
100% Not MafiaToonyManApproved
PFP
Do you trust Tric? I don’t trust Tric. Vibe check doesn’t pass. He reads like he knows what he’s doing. It’s like how I always play better when I’m scum.
Fluffe: Hello! Don't believe I've played with you. What is the best and worst part of RVS?Yep think this is the first time we played a game together. Anyway had to look this up I guess its the random voting people do on the first day? The best part is it can get a nonactive player to talk but the worst part is its often an excuse for shitposty sheniganry or low justification bandwagoning.
Fluffe what do you think is going to be the best way to find scum on D1? What do you think is the best way to find town on D1?I continue to abide by my hatred for the first day and the view that it is practically impossible to find a decent scum on the very first day without them making a major misplay. As for finding town I guess them being active in trying to find mafia can be a semi-decent sign? Youll never get any guarantee on the first day though.
Fluffy: Almost all of these questions I'm asking are useless and stupid. Which one is the worst and which one is the closest to actually being worth something and why?Hmm well I say the most useless one is the cat ears one since that is a yes or no question with 0 useful info being granted regardless of the answer the closet to being actually worth something I would say its the thanos snap one if you replaced if you could with if you had to and asked who they would snap otherwise they are all about equally useless slightly more slightly less.
Fluffe is going to ping hard if they haven't upped their game from last time. They just exude a sense of wrongness that is just this side of town divide. (When Mafia)Im probably misunderstanding what you are saying but I have not been mafia in a single game we have played together yet.
Okay, I can conceptualize what’s bothering me now, about Max’s logic. Is it valid? Yes. The problem is that it’s fundamentally basing scumminess on something that’s not part of the game state and can only be subjectively argued. It’s unreliable and easy for scum to potentially exploit. I don’t like it for that reason.Lenglon also looks at FoU and types into her phone.
I said nothing about discussion getting bogged down Tric, don't try to stuff words in my mouth. I said that asking about Hats is rolefishing. If people want to claim their hats then that's on them, but generally people shouldn't roleclaim day 1 without a good reason. You're actively pushing and fishing for the hat part of people's roles without justification. I do think we will want to have a good long hat discussion, but said discussion will probably be best to have on day 2.It's not Tric.
@Hector:If it helps, I left it up to chance, since I enjoy playing either way, and I find it strongly believable that Lenglon would as well. I think I agree about NQT. I also think Jim would submit town to have less responsibility so he can play more Noita.
I'm not sure about most players. I think NQT would absolutely submit town though because he's attested multiple times to enjoying town more and has also been mafia far too many times recently. I thought FoU would also submit town for multiple reasons, but they've claimed cult so. Don't have strong reasoning for anyone else.
For me personally I said the turtles would pick town, but I myself don't care.
I also think Jim would submit town to have less responsibility so he can play more Noita.This is true. I could make a joke about a three word role but I won't.
Max, I don't know what the Curry Carp thing is about, could you please explain it for me?Oh, lol, I was just shortening "A Curious Cat", both because it's long, and because for some reason I've always said "Carp" in my head. I like calling people weird nicknames, sometimes. It's not really a thing I expected anyone to know, but I figured people would either ask or figure it out based on the context eventually.
Fluffe I’m concerned that you merely responded and didn’t actually contribute. What’s up?Well I'm tired from having to wake up early for school and had to go out and get a pizza to eat but mostly as usual with the first day I frankly just don't know what to say I like to base my questions and accusations on more solid stuff then "well I asked Max what type of pizza toppings he likes and he said pineapple thats kinda sus!" I just feel there aint anything I could ask on the first day that would be a gotcha moment or get us any closer to actually finding a mafia.
a lot of Day 1 is just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. It's impossible to force the scum to make mistakes, but you can give them opportunities to. We all would prefer to have a solid basis to argue from, but that isn't going to happen. Instead you should be trying various inputs, and watching to see if the scum make a mistake. the odds may be low at any given moment, but if you force the scum to roll the dice over and over and over and over eventually they'll roll a natural 1.Fluffe I’m concerned that you merely responded and didn’t actually contribute. What’s up?Well I'm tired from having to wake up early for school and had to go out and get a pizza to eat but mostly as usual with the first day I frankly just don't know what to say I like to base my questions and accusations on more solid stuff then "well I asked Max what type of pizza toppings he likes and he said pineapple thats kinda sus!" I just feel there aint anything I could ask on the first day that would be a gotcha moment or get us any closer to actually finding a mafia.
a lot of Day 1 is just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. It's impossible to force the scum to make mistakes, but you can give them opportunities to. We all would prefer to have a solid basis to argue from, but that isn't going to happen. Instead you should be trying various inputs, and watching to see if the scum make a mistake. the odds may be low at any given moment, but if you force the scum to roll the dice over and over and over and over eventually they'll roll a natural 1.I guess although I still gotta think up actual questions to ask that aint just shitposts so give me a bit on that.
@Toaster You seem to have alot of mafia experience what is the best advice you could give to a less experienced town?
So it's a race to see who earns two extra votes.I want 'em
Sorry Hector, I think you're actually not bad but I think on Bay12 meta you're in the danger zone:
- some oldheads get the benefit of the doubt and almost always live to D2 (Toony and Jim, say)
- some wild cards spew themselves as non-mafia (KW and Tric, say)
- some players have recently been scum a lot and gamblers fallacy means people might go easier (Fallacy and me, maybe? Honestly could go the other way)
- some players are pretty good at competently making posts and survive d1 most times regardless of aligment (I suspect EJ and Toaster will be this today)
- some players just wont post enough on D1 and may slip notice until D2 in a big game (I could see this happening with Juicebox)
So that leaves a laregeish group of players who have things stacked against by the meta.
The following rules are in effect this game:
- When you signup, you may choose up to 1 idea to be added to the flavor.
- When you signup, you may choose up to 2 Action types to be added to your role from the following list: [Super, Copy, Hide, Bus, Block, Redirect, Protect, Kill, Recruit, Inspect, Learn, Watch, Track, Delay, Motivate, Randomize, Gift, Auto, Evolve, Vote]
- All Players now have 3 Action Points per Phase that can be spent on Actions, instead of one Action per Phase. Actions will list their Action cost instead of their Priority, which has been deprecated.
- When you signup, you may send in Town or Mafia. You will be 4 times more likely to receive this Alignment.
Because of this rule change, the Mafiakill has now been changed to the following:[/i]Quote{AP1} (Night, Mafiakill) Mafiakill [target]: Kill the target.
Tags: KillQuoteIn response to your query NQT. Not sure if that question is NAI or not. But we can't just rely on Points for.. Well, given multiple actions can be used.
Webadict, I assume each action can only be used once per phase. Well, main point is that as I gather Hats, I get more options. Right now I can only Steal, which costs 1 Point.
Max, you're spot on, I did submit town.I appreciate the credit, but Toony said it first, and I just agreed.
EJ good job on completely ignoring me pointing out the flaws in your gameplan.Because I'm not sheeping either of them, yet.
Continuing on from above re:D1 lynches, another good argument for a D1 lynch is getting rid of someone who isn’t going to put any effort in to help town. You’ve indicated an unwillingness to do that by saying you’ll sheep either of two players you think are good - which you do in every game to be perfectly honest, I honestly don’t see the point in you continuing to play mafia if you have no interest in actually playing mafia but whatever - while simultaneously doing zero to actually get a solid read on those two players.
This is a big game; assuming you’re town, a D1 mislynch is going to be much less harmful than in the size of games we’ve been having of late. You know your alignment for suresies, so allowing someone else to basically take your voice when you don’t know their alignment is… utter madness and frustrating beyond description. Alternatively, if you’re scum we get rid of a significant issue of you having more sway than everyone else, which is a problem that only gets worse the longer the games goes on and you still live. The latter is makes a lot of sense if one or both of Toony or Jim are your partner(s), because you lose nothing by giving away your voice to someone you know for suresies is in your team.
Give me one good reason why we shouldn’t get rid of you when your only inclination appears to be Jim or Toony’s sock-puppet.
Egan [...]: what do you think is going to be the best way to find scum on D1? What do you think is the best way to find town on D1?Try my best to pay attention to all the people around evenly. I don't have much practice so I need all the help I can get to not get overwhelmed by all the people. That's why I'm going to take notes this time. I'll also be reposting those notes with each post so that people can see.
Egan: Are you wearing cat ears?How dare you my ears are real. :3
Fluffy: Almost all of these questions I'm asking are useless and stupid. Which one is the worst and which one is the closest to actually being worth something and why?I'll answer this one too because you can't stop me. The worst is the one you asked me because you're Hatfishing. The best is this question, because you're getting a less experienced player more engaged.
RVS is garbage. However, much like democracy, it's better than the alternatives by a long shot.Agreed. Though I do think that night 0 could work if the abilities usable during it were more constrained and designed. I'd like to try a [setup] type power some time.
We did try skipping RVS that one time. Had a Night 0 and everything.
That didn't work out so well.
Lenglon is obvscum. I used my one-shot infallible nuclear awesome day-alignment inspect no-failure-possible ability on her and she's mafia. Everyone vote Lenglon now or I will break your legs.Break them, buddy.
Fake news.Spoiler: the fuck is this, egan (click to show/hide)
I’ll also say that if you lynch me you’ll be losing a great ally for the town.So your alignment is town-ally?
Good stuff Toony, but probably Fallacy and Lenglon aren't both on the same team.How you figure? Could they not be in a chat together and playing around?
Like seriously I’m not that good. Am I?Now I don't know what I'm doing, but I don't see any problems with your play!
EJ good job on completely ignoring me pointing out the flaws in your gameplan.Because I'm not sheeping either of them, yet.
Continuing on from above re:D1 lynches, another good argument for a D1 lynch is getting rid of someone who isn’t going to put any effort in to help town. You’ve indicated an unwillingness to do that by saying you’ll sheep either of two players you think are good - which you do in every game to be perfectly honest, I honestly don’t see the point in you continuing to play mafia if you have no interest in actually playing mafia but whatever - while simultaneously doing zero to actually get a solid read on those two players.
This is a big game; assuming you’re town, a D1 mislynch is going to be much less harmful than in the size of games we’ve been having of late. You know your alignment for suresies, so allowing someone else to basically take your voice when you don’t know their alignment is… utter madness and frustrating beyond description. Alternatively, if you’re scum we get rid of a significant issue of you having more sway than everyone else, which is a problem that only gets worse the longer the games goes on and you still live. The latter is makes a lot of sense if one or both of Toony or Jim are your partner(s), because you lose nothing by giving away your voice to someone you know for suresies is in your team.
Give me one good reason why we shouldn’t get rid of you when your only inclination appears to be Jim or Toony’s sock-puppet.
In fact, Jim is voting someone else.
And furthermore, I'm using my double-vote to put pressure on juicebox.
PPE: I was going to eventually move on to voting Egan because one of their scumtells is absence but they appear to have made a post, and they’re giving an evolving reads list with every post it looks like? Colour me impressed. I haven’t actually read them yet but that’s looking like a pretty good start on the surface.
FallacyofUrist: How do you propose I should feel about you being immune to alignment inspections? Also Gate of Dreams (update) when?Generally players with passive 'screw inspection' effects are town, at least in the Bay 12 meta. I see millers a lot more often than godfathers. However, webadict is fully willing to mix it up.
I'm very much taking note of all these posts.So much aggro. This feels like 30 degrees askew from normal TricMagic. That's like, pi/6 radians.
Go ahead Mafia. Shoot me. Make my day. Won't change the fact that you've wasted the shot.
@Lenglon What was the point of those questions earlier anyway? Do ya think they would actually help catch mafia or was it just shitposting?You know, something can be shitposting and help catch scum. Here and now, it's all about generating data.
Gate of Dreams less often now that this game's started, but I'll still try to get to it every few days. No more month long hiatuses.Town Fal updates his game. :D
NQT and juicebox and MaxSpin: I already asked FoU, but now I’ll ask you and try to get away with asking the same question to a quarter of the town: what do you think the setup is in terms of alignment spread?
I’ll be posting more frequently tomorrow, most of my day was taken up by COMP SCI bullshit.I feel you. Pretty hard, yeah.
I’m voting EuchreJack, not Egan.Whoops. And whoops, let's see what's happening there.
Also, that doesn’t seem to include EuchreJack’s double vote, ‘cause you said at day start 9 would hammer, not 8.
EDIT: >:| Vote people's names, or I'm not fixing it next time!I’m voting EuchreJack, not Egan.Whoops. And whoops, let's see what's happening there.
Also, that doesn’t seem to include EuchreJack’s double vote, ‘cause you said at day start 9 would hammer, not 8.
This is incredibly rich coming from you
Heh heh, Toaster tried to unvote me, but of course the bot reasonably counted it as an unvote immediately followed by another vote for me, right?This is correct, and I'm not fixing it, for multiple reasons, but mostly because I'm lazy.
My too-busy-to-read-well reads:I agree.
I like Tric & Max
Therefore, I don't like Fallacy, since he seems to be pushing shitty reasons.
EJ good job on completely ignoring me pointing out the flaws in your gameplan.Hey hey, Jack has had this "busy with work" attitude lately in a lot of games. It does make it harder for me to read him, but I agree with his cursory reads and it's probably okay if he sheep votes me or Jim. I think the fact he's trying to determine between the two of us to sheep shows some level of effort/scrutiny.
...
Give me one good reason why we shouldn’t get rid of you when your only inclination appears to be Jim or Toony’s sock-puppet.
wordsNice first post Egan! A lot of effort shown here.
Toonyman: Who do you think is likely to have chosen Town as their preferred alignment? I ask you because Spin hates answering such questions D1. (Dang it, hector asked you before I did. Oh well.)Yeah this has been already answered: NQT.
Cause I'm 100% Not MafiaToonyMan/Approved!Do you want me to mail you a stamp?
sort of first postA-another good post? I'm going to cry.
I feel like only one out of Maximum Spin or FoU is scum. I highly doubt that both of them are scum with immunity to alignment inspects. Between the two of them though, I'm leaning more toward Maximum Spin being scum. I don't think that looking at what alignment everyone is likely to choose will be that helpful, and shouldn't really be a focus.That's a good point. I have a hard time trusting Max, but I do like his logic about the fourth question thing (which FoU doesn't seem to like, interesting...).
Toonyman: Who do you think is likely to have chosen Town as their preferred alignment? I ask you because Spin hates answering such questions D1. (Dang it, hector asked you before I did. Oh well.)I missed this because it was directed at ToonyMan, but I absolutely would have answered it! It's a question that's actually useful and worthwhile!
This is how you do it Fluffe, follow Egan and Juicebox's example.Oh yeah, I forgot about Fluffy. Not impressed with his effort either.
I'm trying to be just a tiny bit more cooperative.It's a little eyebrow raising, but you also haven't been a fake open book.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Fluffy. Not impressed with his effort either.I'm not really seeing a difference between this game and his previous one though.
I've genuinely been wanting to try to be more helpful, and it's not my fault I kept rolling mafia while doing it! It worked out in the latest Paranormal and web's Supernatural, right? Well, I wasn't exactly town in Supernatural, either.I'm trying to be just a tiny bit more cooperative.It's a little eyebrow raising, but you also haven't been a fake open book.
Agreed.Oh yeah, I forgot about Fluffy. Not impressed with his effort either.I'm not really seeing a difference between this game and his previous one though.
Can you do me a flavor and confirm that you are, right now, absolutely definitely 100% unquestionable beyond the shadow of a doubt, town right now?
Yes.
Any attempt to confirm that mechanically will probably fail horribly, in all honesty. But yes.
As a matter of fact, inspection doesn't work properly on me either, for reasons that may become clearer when we get the flavor.
And I have not been counterclaimed.
Nin. Hector, you should know better, I never outright say what my alignment is. That would be lying. And I'm an honest lier.(I'm n)Yeah, can't even type that without a straight face. Can we not get into tricks and whorls, it's just going to go down the drain. Right now I'm just typing what I think.
One comment: I have not shitpost in this game.
You're awfully late to bring this up, though. Sus.Well, I don't really have to follow your schedule, but also... I was hoping we'd get the flavor sooner. *cough*
FoU - at odds with Max, also claims uninspectable like with Max, I believe them lessIn the spirit of full fairness, he also always does this.
Jim - lazy, need more than their first post (which I liked)
also... I was hoping we'd get the flavor sooner. *cough*Working on it. I have 59 pages of my Google Doc (but like... only 20 of it really matters, amirite?) currently and many people asking many questions, and I needed a nap after work, but I'll get something up shortly.
Catching criticism for not playing mafia in the middle of my work day only makes me want to play this game less and Noita more.Sorry, I think that game where we won by you totally checking out on purpose may have put an end to your carefree days. Everyone's going to be looking out for you now.
That isn't my intention. I should have said "busy with work like other people I mentioned", but I couldn't stop myself from saying the L word.Jim - lazy, need more than their first post (which I liked)Catching criticism for not playing mafia in the middle of my work day only makes me want to play this game less and Noita more.
Max - seems to want to help, claims uninspectable but they always do this
You're awfully late to bring this up, though. Sus.Well, I don't really have to follow your schedule, but also... I was hoping we'd get the flavor sooner. *cough*FoU - at odds with Max, also claims uninspectable like with Max, I believe them lessIn the spirit of full fairness, he also always does this.
Sorry.That isn't my intention. I should have said "busy with work like other people I mentioned", but I couldn't stop myself from saying the L word.Jim - lazy, need more than their first post (which I liked)Catching criticism for not playing mafia in the middle of my work day only makes me want to play this game less and Noita more.
ToonyMan:Max likes to claim miller even when he's not and even when he's town.Max - seems to want to help, claims uninspectable but they always do this"they always do this"
Wait, what? You're gonna need to elaborate that one for me.
Catching criticism for not playing mafia in the middle of my work day only makes me want to play this game less and Noita more.Sorry, I think that game where we won by you totally checking out on purpose may have put an end to your carefree days. Everyone's going to be looking out for you now.
Sorry.
I’ll also say that if you lynch me you’ll be losing a great ally for the town.So your alignment is town-ally?
Also, can anyone tell me what "PPE" means? I've looked it up on the mafia-scum wiki, but I can't seem to find it.I have no idea what it stands for but people use it when they add something after hitting 'preview' or 'post' and seeing new posts. It's a forum thing, not a mafia thing.
Also, what does "TP" mean? I can't seem to find that either...Third party. That's a mafia thing.
Also, can anyone tell me what "PPE" means? I've looked it up on the mafia-scum wiki, but I can't seem to find it.Pre Post Edit - in this forum architecture, people that have posted since you started writing your post only have their posts show up once you hit preview or post yourself. PPE is when you edit your post in response to those posts that were posted since you started writing.
Also, what does "TP" mean? I can't seem to find that either...
Max likes to claim miller even when he's not and even when he's town.
Town
Tric - "Web forgot to PM me my role"
Unvote.
Would rather eliminate mafia today than Tric, reflecting on it.
@Lenglon: Can you give me a really good reason why I should unvote you, or should I keep my vote as it is for the time being?Use your vote how you think it'll be the most useful. If you think I'm scum you should leave it on me and press me to justify my reasons and actions. for example you should check if the readslist I just wrote makes sense and is consistent. If I'm maf then no matter how well-crafted it is it will be a bit forced. Find where I don't have a good justification for my opinions and ask about that. You want to collect enough evidence that you'll be able to make a convincing case for everyone else to join you in voting me.
This game is pretty dense. It's going to take me a bit to post but I'm working on it now.Mirai nikki (eng title: The Future Diary)
I'm going to be bored shitless up here at my parents' house, and you don't have to tell me to play Noita since I'll already be doing a lot of that. What anime should I watch that I haven't seen already and is worth my time?
A_Curious_Cat - new player, correctly identified that the early pressure put on them was a trap, incorrectly reacted to the trap with scummy caution instead of townie boldness. If they were a vet I'd think they were scum. They aren't a vet. So have them as *wait and see*
Egan_BW - few posts but solid content in them. Clear and understandable readslist. Town.
EuchreJack - doublevoter that defers their votes instead of using them to apply pressure and scumhunt. What. likely scum.
FallacyofUrist - repeated sharp interactions. Immediately understood what I was doing in RVS and played off it to scumtest Cat. Town.
Fluffe9911 - No Content of note.
hector13 - heavy activity that I haven't taken the time to read in full because large posts. temporary null-read while I correct that error.
Jim Groovester - ZZZzzzz
juicebox - late entry with solid content once they read the thread. likely town but not enough content to be comfortable.
Knightwing64 - who?
Lenglon - me!
Maximum Spin - I never read max correctly, but right now I have an extremely strong "town" vibe from them emotionally. logic say null, emotion says town.
notquitethere - standard "I do stuff on Day 2" statements, but
Toaster - very independent. I don't fully agree with their reasoning but I can generally follow it and there's nothing particularly wrong about it. lean town.
ToonyMan - inconsistent. I don't feel like their reasons for switching between opinions are fully clear, which kinda bugs me. Might be putting on a facade to manipulate, but I don't see who's being manipulated.
TricMagic - Hat? hat! hat hat hat. hat hat? hat hat hat. hat.
PPE:@Lenglon: Can you give me a really good reason why I should unvote you, or should I keep my vote as it is for the time being?Use your vote how you think it'll be the most useful. If you think I'm scum you should leave it on me and press me to justify my reasons and actions. for example you should check if the readslist I just wrote makes sense and is consistent. If I'm maf then no matter how well-crafted it is it will be a bit forced. Find where I don't have a good justification for my opinions and ask about that. You want to collect enough evidence that you'll be able to make a convincing case for everyone else to join you in voting me.
If you don't think you're going to get anything useful from pressing me, then you should move you vote to apply pressure to someone that you do think you can get something useful from. That doesn't mean you have to give up on calling me scum, it simply means that you can get more use out of your vote. I would LIKE to vote jim and knightwing and fluffe all at once simply because I want more total content from them for me to analyze, but I only have one vote, and I don't think voting any of them will get what I want out of them. so instead I'll be voting Max. This, as you can see above, isn't actually because I think Max is scum. It's because I want information out of Max. I want logical justifications for my emotions about if I think Max is town or not. This is what's called a pressure vote.
If however you are completely certain that I'm scum and that you have the evidence to back up your claim, you should say my name in bold red again to emphasize this, similar to how FoU did when he was pressing for you to vote me, and you should present all the evidence and arguments that you have for why I should be today's lynch. At that point there is no longer any point in you talking to me, you should have already gotten everything out of me that you want, and instead you will be talking to everyone else here, attempting to convince them to join you in voting and lynching me.
Vote Count
------------------------
-> juicebox --4-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469221#msg8469221), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469221#msg8469221), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469231#msg8469231), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469346#msg8469346),
Lenglon --2-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469066#msg8469066), A_Curious_Cat* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469080#msg8469080),
Maximum Spin --2-- FallacyofUrist* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469322#msg8469322), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469388#msg8469388),
Egan_BW --1-- TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469318#msg8469318),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469287#msg8469287),
Toaster --1-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469379#msg8469379),
TricMagic --1-- Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469387#msg8469387),
A_Curious_Cat --0--
FallacyofUrist --0--
Fluffe9911 --0--
hector13 --0--
Jim Groovester --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469356#msg8469356), Fluffe9911, juicebox, Knightwing64,
9 to Hammer. Day ends on April 20, 2023 at 18:00 Central Daylight Time (~67 hours remaining).
Vote Count
------------------------
-> juicebox --4-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469221#msg8469221), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469221#msg8469221), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469231#msg8469231), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469346#msg8469346),
Lenglon --2-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469066#msg8469066), A_Curious_Cat* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469080#msg8469080),
Maximum Spin --2-- FallacyofUrist* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469322#msg8469322), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469388#msg8469388),
Egan_BW --1-- TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469318#msg8469318),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469287#msg8469287),
Toaster --1-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469379#msg8469379),
TricMagic --1-- Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469387#msg8469387),
A_Curious_Cat --0--
FallacyofUrist --0--
Fluffe9911 --0--
hector13 --0--
Jim Groovester --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469356#msg8469356), Fluffe9911, juicebox, Knightwing64,
9 to Hammer. Day ends on April 20, 2023 at 18:00 Central Daylight Time (~67 hours remaining).
Egan: I appreciate your transparency, but is it truly helpful to post your full notebook in practically every post?
ToonyMan:Max - seems to want to help, claims uninspectable but they always do this
"they always do this"
Wait, what? You're gonna need to elaborate that one for me.
Max:You're awfully late to bring this up, though. Sus.Well, I don't really have to follow your schedule, but also... I was hoping we'd get the flavor sooner. *cough*FoU - at odds with Max, also claims uninspectable like with Max, I believe them lessIn the spirit of full fairness, he also always does this.
You too, sir.
Go off king.Jim - lazy, need more than their first post (which I liked)
Catching criticism for not playing mafia in the middle of my work day only makes me want to play this game less and Noita more.
Go off king.Jim - lazy, need more than their first post (which I liked)
Catching criticism for not playing mafia in the middle of my work day only makes me want to play this game less and Noita more.
Like say, Maximum Spin. Is there anyone that you find suspicious that's posted more than twice?Yes, but I used up all my vote changes for now.
I think sketching out relationships between players will be more helpful than a strict town to scum read hierarchy. Or rather it's practically a requirement for that, at this point in such a large game. It's also an excuse to try something new.Maybe a certain graph maker can do that.
Why do you think Tric is town?Initially, it's because of his first post since it implies he's not mafia if he's telling the truth unless Web is being a weirdo. If you don't want to accept that as an argument then fine that's understandable. Having looked at his play in the game so far I've observed the following: He selfishly wants to gobble hats and is goading the mafia to try to kill him which is extremely in-character for him as town or third-party, he's done this numerous times (like the previous BYOR15 even). I really don't believe he's mafia here. It's a bad vote.
What if I told you he forgot mine too?Let's say I believe you, I don't think this changes my opinion of Tric.
(I caught him before he left and he sent it before my first post. I didn't think it was worthy of mention at the time.)
ToonyMan - inconsistent.Says the guy who votes Max a player they townread.
I don't like this vote. If Tric isn't town, it's more likely that he's a TP with the wincon of collect all the hats than scum. While I'd like to get him out if that's the case, I still think that D1 it'll be more productive to look at someone else who is more likely to be mafia than to look at TricI agree.
Max
Maximum SpinHmmmm
I prooobably like Max here.Especially with FoU voting Max.
Why do you think Tric isn't Mafia? More importantly, who is?
Like say, Maximum Spin. Is there anyone that you find suspicious that's posted more than twice?Yes, but I used up all my vote changes for now.
I don't agree that my point about Fallacy went nowhere, though? I don't think anyone forgot it, and there are seventy more hours in the day.
Like say, Maximum Spin. Is there anyone that you find suspicious that's posted more than twice?Yes, but I used up all my vote changes for now.
I don't agree that my point about Fallacy went nowhere, though? I don't think anyone forgot it, and there are seventy more hours in the day.
I meant that as in there hasn't been any follow up on it so far. Also what do you mean you're out of vote changes?
I don't like this vote. If Tric isn't town, it's more likely that he's a TP with the wincon of collect all the hats than scum. While I'd like to get him out if that's the case, I still think that D1 it'll be more productive to look at someone else who is more likely to be mafia than to look at Tric
Why do you think Tric isn't Mafia? More importantly, who is?
Tric isn't mafia because he's a hat tyrant and the hat tyrant wins alone.
Why do you think Tric is town?Initially, it's because of his first post since it implies he's not mafia if he's telling the truth unless Web is being a weirdo. If you don't want to accept that as an argument then fine that's understandable. Having looked at his play in the game so far I've observed the following: He selfishly wants to gobble hats and is goading the mafia to try to kill him which is extremely in-character for him as town or third-party, he's done this numerous times (like the previous BYOR15 even). I really don't believe he's mafia here. It's a bad vote.
What if I told you he forgot mine too?Let's say I believe you, I don't think this changes my opinion of Tric.
(I caught him before he left and he sent it before my first post. I didn't think it was worthy of mention at the time.)
No Man's Sky
Fluffe is going to ping hard if they haven't upped their game from last time. They just exude a sense of wrongness that is just this side of town divide. (When Mafia)
Lenglon and Tric are pinging scum. Is “Tric is competent and focused as scum and wildly unpredictable as town” still a valid meta read? I stand by my gut read either way.
Well I'm tired from having to wake up early for school and had to go out and get a pizza to eat but mostly as usual with the first day I frankly just don't know what to say I like to base my questions and accusations on more solid stuff then "well I asked Max what type of pizza toppings he likes and he said pineapple thats kinda sus!" I just feel there aint anything I could ask on the first day that would be a gotcha moment or get us any closer to actually finding a mafia.
Jim Groovester: If you're still an inexperienced noob then we should totally eliminate you first, right?
Yes. I learned the sacred technique of copypasting my whole character sheet in every post from Piecewise games, and I'm gonna use it!
This post doesn't count I'm just shitposting I'm done doing effort for the day.
Do you trust Tric? I don’t trust Tric. Vibe check doesn’t pass. He reads like he knows what he’s doing. It’s like how I always play better when I’m scum.
Voting Tric looks like a potentially reasonable option.
Basically, what we're trying to figure out here is if he's substantially varying from his town baseline. Given how much Tric projects, that's much easier done than for say, Toony. I'd be willing to vote Tric later if a reread of his posts makes me feel like he's scum. Or malevolent third party, though I'd prefer to vote for scum. Chasing third parties too far is a fallacy (rip me).
And Max doesn't feel particularly town, except that's exactly what I felt the last few times I tried to read him, too. There's always this level of detachment which is hard to parse things through.
@Jim Grooovester: What are your thoughts concerning my signature?
Also, can anyone tell me what "PPE" means? I've looked it up on the mafia-scum wiki, but I can't seem to find it.
Also, what does "TP" mean? I can't seem to find that either...
This game is pretty dense. It's going to take me a bit to post but I'm working on it now.Mirai nikki (eng title: The Future Diary)
I'm going to be bored shitless up here at my parents' house, and you don't have to tell me to play Noita since I'll already be doing a lot of that. What anime should I watch that I haven't seen already and is worth my time?
ToonyMan:Why do you think Tric is town?Initially, it's because of his first post since it implies he's not mafia if he's telling the truth unless Web is being a weirdo. If you don't want to accept that as an argument then fine that's understandable. Having looked at his play in the game so far I've observed the following: He selfishly wants to gobble hats and is goading the mafia to try to kill him which is extremely in-character for him as town or third-party, he's done this numerous times (like the previous BYOR15 even). I really don't believe he's mafia here. It's a bad vote.
Perhaps, but do you think he's actually accomplishing anything?
EDIT: >:| Vote people's names, or I'm not fixing it next time!I’m voting EuchreJack, not Egan.Whoops. And whoops, let's see what's happening there.
Also, that doesn’t seem to include EuchreJack’s double vote, ‘cause you said at day start 9 would hammer, not 8.
My too-busy-to-read-well reads:I agree.
I like Tric & Max
Therefore, I don't like Fallacy, since he seems to be pushing shitty reasons.EJ good job on completely ignoring me pointing out the flaws in your gameplan.Hey hey, Jack has had this "busy with work" attitude lately in a lot of games. It does make it harder for me to read him, but I agree with his cursory reads and it's probably okay if he sheep votes me or Jim. I think the fact he's trying to determine between the two of us to sheep shows some level of effort/scrutiny.
...
Give me one good reason why we shouldn’t get rid of you when your only inclination appears to be Jim or Toony’s sock-puppet.
I don't really like your pursuit on Jack.
Town
Tric - "Web forgot to PM me my role"
Curious Cat - "what is FoS?"
Townlean
Egan - they're keeping a sketchbook, a sketchbook! effort town points
NQT - is busy but I'm willing to believe the posts they've done are genuine, I also fully believe they submitted town as prefered alignment
Max - seems to want to help, claims uninspectable but they always do this
juicebox - seems to be trying like Egan but maybe not as convincing, I get townie vibes
Fluffe - I've never seen as mafia, they are acting just like they have in the other two games I've played with them on D1 though
Knightwing - has no idea what is going on
Neutral
Jim - lazy, need more than their first post (which I liked)
Jack - don't have a strong read, he's been pretty aloof, I need some emotion and excitement and passion
Lenglon - don't know, I forgot they did a lot of roleplaying in Web's other game and it was really easy to read them in that game but they also immediately claimed third-party in that game as well
Suspicious
Hector - showing a lot of effort, but it's Hector and I've been tricked constantly by him
Toaster - same boat as Hector
FoU - at odds with Max, also claims uninspectable like with Max, I believe them less
Thoughts:
I don't like Hector's attack of Jack.
I don't like Toaster and FoU's attack of Tric.
I'm more confident Tric is town (or not mafia) than Jack, so I find FoU and Toaster more suspect than Hector currently.
A_Curious_Cat - new player, correctly identified that the early pressure put on them was a trap, incorrectly reacted to the trap with scummy caution instead of townie boldness. If they were a vet I'd think they were scum. They aren't a vet. So have them as *wait and see*
Egan_BW - few posts but solid content in them. Clear and understandable readslist. Town.
EuchreJack - doublevoter that defers their votes instead of using them to apply pressure and scumhunt. What. likely scum.
FallacyofUrist - repeated sharp interactions. Immediately understood what I was doing in RVS and played off it to scumtest Cat. Town.
Fluffe9911 - No Content of note.
hector13 - heavy activity that I haven't taken the time to read in full because large posts. temporary null-read while I correct that error.
Jim Groovester - ZZZzzzz
juicebox - late entry with solid content once they read the thread. likely town but not enough content to be comfortable.
Knightwing64 - who?
Lenglon - me!
Maximum Spin - I never read max correctly, but right now I have an extremely strong "town" vibe from them emotionally. logic say null, emotion says town.
notquitethere - standard "I do stuff on Day 2" statements, but
Toaster - very independent. I don't fully agree with their reasoning but I can generally follow it and there's nothing particularly wrong about it. lean town.
ToonyMan - inconsistent. I don't feel like their reasons for switching between opinions are fully clear, which kinda bugs me. Might be putting on a facade to manipulate, but I don't see who's being manipulated.
TricMagic - Hat? hat! hat hat hat. hat hat? hat hat hat. hat.
Alright, I’m here. Somebody give me the cliffnotes of what happened please, as I would prefer not reading through 20 pages.Hector13 and NQT were being scummy, you should probably vote one of them.
Also, if anybody asked me anything, just ask it again here, because I again, don’t want to scroll through lots while working (loosely)
You seem to have a different recollection of that game than I do. I lost that game for my team N1, and I think it took ‘til D4 for town to realize it. The reason I went after you was because everyone else was mechanically cleared, and the fact you thought it was a thunderdome is testament to the play of my team.If you're not going to argue, what again is the point of Thunderdoming?
If you want to thunderdome now I’m pretty sure I could make zero posts between now and the end of the day, and I’d still win. That’s how badly you’ve played.
Equally so, both the people you want to sheep have me as a scumread. Fire away if you want, I’ve been one of the most prolific posters of the day, there’s plenty enough evidence to build a case if you think I’ve played horseshit. I won’t even argue against it.
Alright, I’m here. Somebody give me the cliffnotes of what happened please, as I would prefer not reading through 20 pages.Hector13 and NQT were being scummy, you should probably vote one of them.
Also, if anybody asked me anything, just ask it again here, because I again, don’t want to scroll through lots while working (loosely)
Easy peasy.
I can't legitimately vote hector13. Yeah, I think his vote on me is horseshit, and his play is horseshit, and he reminds me of that game we thunderdomed and I totally owned his scummy ass. But lashing out at the one person pushing a case against you is counterproductive.
thunderdome
Instead, I'll compare three random players.
Alright, I’m here. Somebody give me the cliffnotes of what happened please, as I would prefer not reading through 20 pages.
Also, if anybody asked me anything, just ask it again here, because I again, don’t want to scroll through lots while working (loosely)
So is this the world we live in? Is TricMagic simply allowed to do his own thing without helping and there is a collective agreement to just smile and let it happen?
So is this the world we live in? Is TricMagic simply allowed to do his own thing without helping and there is a collective agreement to just smile and let it happen?Pretty much, yes.
Lenglon: You’re… starting the game in a… weird aggressive-but-not-particularly-useful way. Why did you choose those particular people to ask questions of?I don't remember why. I think it was semi-random.
@Lenglon What was the point of those questions earlier anyway? Do ya think they would actually help catch mafia or was it just shitposting?mostly shitposting. The real RVS was the "you gonna vote me or what punk?" staredown with Cat. the shitposts and refusal to spread pressure evenly were ways to get myself voted to get the ball rolling, and if they happened to generate useful info on the side that was just bonus.
Decent enough reads list, not too much wrong I can see here other than Toaster, and probably FoU. You’re trying to refine some of your reads, so I think I don’t need to do too much with your slot for the time being, other than ask what you’re seeing about Toaster that makes you think they’re town?Independence. Toaster is using completely independent reasoning from every other person here. They are focusing on Tric, sure, but they haven't dropped their attention on the rest of the players and the game as a whole. So the whole "pressing Tric on D1 for being Tric is an out for scum to not scumhunt" reasoning just plain does not apply here. I frankly dislike the flak Toaster is getting on the subject. I personally find it troublesome and annoying to bother trying to scumhunt Tric because of Tric's off-base priorities, and I will admit that I've been avoiding dealing with it as a result.
Max: why did you drop your meta-based arguments that why should be guessing what alignment people requested pregame? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy you did, but why?Like I said in the context of Fallacy, I don't really think I did drop it. It was never meant to be the absolute key to the game, it was just something I was thinking about and I wanted others to consider. There's no need to harp on it. I'm still keeping it in mind as one element of my thoughts on people - for example, I think it tends to implicate Fallacy, Knightwing, and possibly juicebox, and tends to exonerate NQT, Jim, and Tric. That was never fully going to convince me of anything by itself, though.
Jim: You and I have extremely different views of FoU. Why do you think FoU is scum? I doubt it's only FoU's stance on Tric, despite that being the only thing you said when you voted him.
I meant that as in there hasn't been any follow up on it so far. Also what do you mean you're out of vote changes?I don't like changing my vote a lot. If I don't have someone in mind to change it to, I tend to leave it in one place. So I was just kind of making a joke referencing that.
Maximum Spin - no complaints, much like notquitethere; His statement about trying to be more helpful did make me raise my eyebrow a little because I remember EuchreJack's comment from AutoMafia where he said if Max is trying to be helpful then he's scum and if he's trying to be aloof then he's town.I like most everything in this readslist, but I just want to reassure you that EuchreJack isn't the god of my meta.
This is especially aggravating because he simultaneously implies I’m competent enough to easily figure out Tric’s alignment but too incompetent to hide my scum strategies when I’m mafia.I mean, yeah.
ToonyMan:No, but he could as long as he isn't killing town or protecting mafia at night. If he's stealing hats or tracking people or inspecting people then whatever, more power to him. He will likely be a benefit.Perhaps, but do you think he's actually accomplishing anything?Why do you think Tric is town?Initially, it's because of his first post since it implies he's not mafia if he's telling the truth unless Web is being a weirdo. If you don't want to accept that as an argument then fine that's understandable. Having looked at his play in the game so far I've observed the following: He selfishly wants to gobble hats and is goading the mafia to try to kill him which is extremely in-character for him as town or third-party, he's done this numerous times (like the previous BYOR15 even). I really don't believe he's mafia here. It's a bad vote.
It would. I think if you're telling the truth I feel better about you from a meta-game standpoint.Does it change your opinion of me?What if I told you he forgot mine too?Let's say I believe you, I don't think this changes my opinion of Tric.
(I caught him before he left and he sent it before my first post. I didn't think it was worthy of mention at the time.)
Yesman JimI think I'm okay with Jim being on the exact same wavelengths with me because this game isn't decided after D1 ends.
Your read on me is horseshit though. It’s basically “hector’a a good player”, and while I *smarm* at that, It’s a pretty poor reaaon for scumreading someone, and I absolutely stand by my distaste of what EJ is doing.I don't have a counter to that, you're right. It's possible we just aren't seeing eye-to-eye about Jack. I think I trust a player like Max more than you here because I find Max more agreeable than you since we don't seem to be seeing things from the same perspective.
I'm not feeling juicebox currently, and WAY to many unexplained votes on that wagon.Have you come to a consensus on who to sheep or are you going to vote for yourself?
I was going to vote Fallacy, but I also should be sleeping and/or paying my taxes. So sympathy not voting.
I can't legitimately vote hector13. Yeah, I think his vote on me is horseshit, and his play is horseshit, and he reminds me of that game we thunderdomed and I totally owned his scummy ass. But lashing out at the one person pushing a case against you is counterproductive.
Instead, let's see how everyone really feels about Toaster
I want to see Toony use his vote.Want to see a magic trick? *waves a wand in front of NQT*
TricMagic.I am fundamentally appalled you think that's a flash of analysis. Like... Really? That's what you call analysis?
So far, he has gone nuts posting about hats. Besides hatting up the place we have:
Briefly we see a flash of analysis (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469243#msg8469243)
His refusal to state his alignment (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469250#msg8469250), which I find suspicious.
Other than that, it's the hat bonanza party hour. I realize Tric's play can be weird (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469269#msg8469269), but no one responded to that. As such, Tric has not actually done anything useful, but he's made a lot of noise. I'm quite happy voting him.
.......Do you trust Tric? I don’t trust Tric. Vibe check doesn’t pass. He reads like he knows what he’s doing. It’s like how I always play better when I’m scum.Voting Tric looks like a potentially reasonable option.
Basically, what we're trying to figure out here is if he's substantially varying from his town baseline. Given how much Tric projects, that's much easier done than for say, Toony. I'd be willing to vote Tric later if a reread of his posts makes me feel like he's scum. Or malevolent third party, though I'd prefer to vote for scum. Chasing third parties too far is a fallacy (rip me).
And Max doesn't feel particularly town, except that's exactly what I felt the last few times I tried to read him, too. There's always this level of detachment which is hard to parse things through.
I do not like these posts. FallacyofUrist gets the read on TricMagic horribly wrong and I do not get any sense from them that FallacyofUrist could hold or could have developed this opinion genuinely. While typing up this post I've at times called these posts gross.
Do you trust Tric? I don’t trust Tric. Vibe check doesn’t pass. He reads like he knows what he’s doing. It’s like how I always play better when I’m scum.Fallacy, you're always Scum. This is fact. What's with the disingenuous sentence?
snipK, I'll be honest. This would be really impressive as Scum. Particularly given Max's usual day 1 style. As is, just makes me town-sheep you. So that's 2 out of.. 14 other players. 1/7 of the way to winning isn't bad in such a large game.
SiiiighI see this in the editor. I have a question for you, how would you describe my play when I was the Dragon that one game?
Okay.
Tric when competent / focused? Scum.
Tric when incompetent / unfocused? Town.
This Tric is incompetent / focused.
Combine that with the heavy fixation on hats, part of the opening flavor (reminder that we submitted flavor fragments), and an awareness of alignments while making no active effort to scumhunt, while talking about its importance?
He’s probably third party. Outsider or SK I’m guessing. More town points to Toaster then.
Hector13 and NQT were being scummy, you should probably vote one of them.Is this a joke or do you genuinely see something about em that makes them scummy? Cause I dont really see anything and id like to know your reasoning.
Easy peasy.
@Lenglon What was the point of those questions earlier anyway? Do ya think they would actually help catch mafia or was it just shitposting?mostly shitposting. The real RVS was the "you gonna vote me or what punk?" staredown with Cat. the shitposts and refusal to spread pressure evenly were ways to get myself voted to get the ball rolling, and if they happened to generate useful info on the side that was just bonus.Decent enough reads list, not too much wrong I can see here other than Toaster, and probably FoU. You’re trying to refine some of your reads, so I think I don’t need to do too much with your slot for the time being, other than ask what you’re seeing about Toaster that makes you think they’re town?Independence. Toaster is using completely independent reasoning from every other person here. They are focusing on Tric, sure, but they haven't dropped their attention on the rest of the players and the game as a whole. So the whole "pressing Tric on D1 for being Tric is an out for scum to not scumhunt" reasoning just plain does not apply here. I frankly dislike the flak Toaster is getting on the subject. I personally find it troublesome and annoying to bother trying to scumhunt Tric because of Tric's off-base priorities, and I will admit that I've been avoiding dealing with it as a result.
But yeah, Toaster in my eyes is thinking for themselves and keeping their eyes on all players. Seems town to me.
unvote
Knightwing: Please participate in the game.
You seem to have a different recollection of that game than I do. I lost that game for my team N1, and I think it took ‘til D4 for town to realize it. The reason I went after you was because everyone else was mechanically cleared, and the fact you thought it was a thunderdome is testament to the play of my team.If you're not going to argue, what again is the point of Thunderdoming?
If you want to thunderdome now I’m pretty sure I could make zero posts between now and the end of the day, and I’d still win. That’s how badly you’ve played.
Equally so, both the people you want to sheep have me as a scumread. Fire away if you want, I’ve been one of the most prolific posters of the day, there’s plenty enough evidence to build a case if you think I’ve played horseshit. I won’t even argue against it.
Besides me, whom are your top three scum picks?
If I eat a kill, that's an L for mafia. And I never say I'm town, unless I'm a dragon, then I say I'm a Dragon. (I find that game the funniest since I outright said what I was and was read as town the whole game, all the way to the end.)This looks genuine to me.
I like hats. I need to steal hats to actually do anything. Gib me ma Hat.
Not fake playing, it’s called school. I’m gonna post more now that I’m out, first half the day in pretty much non existent on this forum, you can check my posts on other games if you don’t believe me.Didn't you even post while in school during a past game?
This Tric is incompetent / focused.Now we're getting somewhere, first Hector then you. What's with Toaster?
Combine that with the heavy fixation on hats, part of the opening flavor (reminder that we submitted flavor fragments), and an awareness of alignments while making no active effort to scumhunt, while talking about its importance?
He’s probably third party. Outsider or SK I’m guessing. More town points to Toaster then.
WAITING TO EVOLVE INTO LATE GAME FORM(https://i.imgur.com/EAeCwQw.png)
I meant that as in there hasn't been any follow up on it so far. Also what do you mean you're out of vote changes?I don't like changing my vote a lot. If I don't have someone in mind to change it to, I tend to leave it in one place. So I was just kind of making a joke referencing that.
I didn't really think I needed to follow up. I still think Fallacy's suspicious - Jim actually just did a great job explaining why - but so do several other people, there's a lot of game left, I didn't think I needed to press the issue? This might be part of what ToonyMan means by saying I play selfishly. I just sort of think it is not my job to get this guy in particular voted out. You can even see the clear difference, if you look up webadict's Supernatural (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.0), when it was in fact literally my job to get one guy in particular voted out.Maximum Spin - no complaints, much like notquitethere; His statement about trying to be more helpful did make me raise my eyebrow a little because I remember EuchreJack's comment from AutoMafia where he said if Max is trying to be helpful then he's scum and if he's trying to be aloof then he's town.I like most everything in this readslist, but I just want to reassure you that EuchreJack isn't the god of my meta.
The eight posts starting from here: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469503#msg8469503)
I don't like this disengaged Knightwing, I don't feel good about this fake-looking Jack Panic, and I'm not a fan of this interaction, especially from two people I would most expect to interact like this as scum.
Wow, I guess that's everything. I thought there was going to be more. Maybe in my first readthrough I had more to say that I cared about less this time around.
My first instinct is to vote Knightwing. This isn't related to Lenglon doing so, I've been thinking about it since last night; but the reasoning is the same. This Knightwing seems, once again, to be faking playing the game. I also 100% believe he would submit mafia as his role preference, for what that's worth.
As you can tell, I really don't like hector13, and their play is getting worse. They can't even think of anyone but me as scum in a 15 player game. Back in my day, we had a word for folk that could only offend one person at a time: Scum.Hector13 and NQT were being scummy, you should probably vote one of them.Is this a joke or do you genuinely see something about em that makes them scummy? Cause I dont really see anything and id like to know your reasoning.
Easy peasy.
NQT's claim of randomly picking three people is Scummy. If he'd admit that he's lying and actually picked the three people he found most interesting, it'd actually make him look a lot better.Haha okay, but I did just randomly pick. The screenshot wasn't some weird lie. What would be the point of that?
EuchreJack, back up your words with evidence.My words are backed by nuclear hats.
Now I wish I sent in Nuclear Ghandi.EuchreJack, back up your words with evidence.My words are backed by nuclear hats.
NQT's claim of randomly picking three people is Scummy. If he'd admit that he's lying and actually picked the three people he found most interesting, it'd actually make him look a lot better.Haha okay, but I did just randomly pick. The screenshot wasn't some weird lie. What would be the point of that?
It was a good idea and I'll do it again.
--
Tooonnnnnyyy where's that red text??
Top three chocolate bars?Chocolate, Rice, and Cookie.
MamoboDon't vote my robot, even if it definitely murdered some people!
Vote Count
------------------------
-> Toaster --3-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469461#msg8469461), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469461#msg8469461), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469379#msg8469379),
Knightwing64 --2-- Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469536#msg8469536), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469542#msg8469542),
EuchreJack --1-- TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469581#msg8469581),
FallacyofUrist --1-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469437#msg8469437),
Jim Groovester --1-- FallacyofUrist* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469550#msg8469550),
Maximum Spin --1-- A_Curious_Cat* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469400#msg8469400),
ToonyMan --1-- notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469496#msg8469496),
TricMagic --1-- Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469387#msg8469387),
A_Curious_Cat --0--
Egan_BW --0--
Fluffe9911 --0--
hector13 --0--
juicebox --0--
Lenglon --0--
notquitethere --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --5-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469356#msg8469356), Fluffe9911, hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469449#msg8469449), juicebox* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469576#msg8469576), Knightwing64,
9 to Hammer. Day ends on April 20, 2023 at 18:00 Central Daylight Time (~49 hours remaining).
So true.WAITING TO EVOLVE INTO LATE GAME FORM(Cool Image)
But anyway, who do you think is scum right now, and who do you think is town? Why?Oh hey a question I love those! Anyway as far as town goes the only person im like almost certain on of at least not being mafia is Tric their role and general abilities are just too out there for me to think webadict would make a mafia that public having a mafia that gives buffs to (presumably) everyone would be a bit strange as well. In my eyes they are either some type of neutral third party or town.
Toony: I was voting on my own to see how others responded, including voting Toaster as you & Jim seemed to suspect him. But you seem to have been doing well, and I love TMNT, so I guess I can sheep you for a bit.Okay. So your reason for voting Toaster was your own and the goal was to see how people would react to that?
Tooonnnnnyyy where's that red text??I can't link it easily right now. Just...look at my post history or something. I voted Toaster because I think the Tric vote is bad. I'm moderately confident in this but will probably lose motivation if he backs off Tric.
There's probably at least one scum in EJ, Toony and HectorI think I can agree with this.
There's probably at least two town in Curious Cat, Maximum Spin and Toaster
I don't feel like I've seen enough useful content from Egan, Fluffe or Knightwing. Juicebox too. None of them are voting. Probably at least one scum among them.
Knightwing64, EuchreJack: Are you sure the people you are following are your benevolent shepards? Or, are they wolves in shephards clothing leading you to your doom? Also, how did you come to this conclusion?
Knightwing64, EuchreJack: Are you sure the people you are following are your benevolent shepards? Or, are they wolves in shephards clothing leading you to your doom? Also, how did you come to this conclusion?
I've also got what I've wanted from Knightwing64.Maybe there's two scumteams fighting each other, and you've found them both? :P
Unvote
I think my biggest problem is that I don't have any previous experience playing Mafia, so I don't have any "meta" (I think that's the term...) to draw from.
I've not got 15 tabs open with each tab showing a different players post in this thread since the start of the game. Going to be scouring through them to see if I can divine anything.
So far, I can see that there are two "cliques", each of which seems to be convinced that the other is "scum".
I'm not sure what to make of anything, yet...
Knightwing64, EuchreJack: Are you sure the people you are following are your benevolent shepards? Or, are they wolves in shephards clothing leading you to your doom? Also, how did you come to this conclusion?
Generally I make it a rule to trust Tric, which normally bites me in the ass, but sometimes has good results.
Tric is king hat man
He noice
I respec
Why do you think Tric is town?Initially, it's because of his first post since it implies he's not mafia if he's telling the truth unless Web is being a weirdo. If you don't want to accept that as an argument then fine that's understandable. Having looked at his play in the game so far I've observed the following: He selfishly wants to gobble hats and is goading the mafia to try to kill him which is extremely in-character for him as town or third-party, he's done this numerous times (like the previous BYOR15 even). I really don't believe he's mafia here. It's a bad vote.
But anyway, who do you think is scum right now, and who do you think is town? Why?Oh hey a question I love those! Anyway as far as town goes the only person im like almost certain on of at least not being mafia is Tric their role and general abilities are just too out there for me to think webadict would make a mafia that public having a mafia that gives buffs to (presumably) everyone would be a bit strange as well. In my eyes they are either some type of neutral third party or town.
Look, we're here playing the game of mafia, and part of the game of mafia is appearing town in a way that convinces the other players. The fact that Tric's way of doing so is a little different doesn't mean it doesn't work. In fact, it may shock and horrify you, but Tric sometimes even catches scum, even, once in a while, when nobody else did! There is absolutely no requirement in the rules of mafia that everyone play in lockstep. It's not connect four or tic tac toe, there's no single proven solution. For example, I have my own way of playing that's different from many others, which sometimes upsets people who think everyone should be playing the same, but it also works and I've managed to come to a point of gelling pretty well with enough other players to keep making it work. TricMagic's no different. This is the ideal TricMagic. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.
My too-busy-to-read-well reads:
I like Tric & Max
Therefore, I don't like Fallacy, since he seems to be pushing shitty reasons.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Going to try to keep this brief by posting reads and thoughts about players rather than a gigantic wall of text with a million little quotes.
SUSPICIOUS
FallacyofUrist - his read on TricMagic is amongst the worst I've ever seen. I'd feel pretty confident hammering FallacyofUrist this early in the day if he were within range
100% NOT MAFIA
TricMagic - easiest read in the game; given how much he's asserting 'not mafia' instead of 'town' he's probably a third party though and it would be safer to shoot him, but not now
Jim: You and I have extremely different views of FoU. Why do you think FoU is scum? I doubt it's only FoU's stance on Tric, despite that being the only thing you said when you voted him.
It literally is only about his stance on TricMagic. FallacyofUrist has been around and should recognize that this is 100% unteamed TricMagic, yet he suspects him.
Why suspect TricMagic? Dunno. I think it's an easy read that town FallacyofUrist should easily be capable of.
Tric: you do make a valid point... if we cared about finding 3p. If I wanted to lynch a 3p I'd have pushed you long ago for being Hat Tyrant. I want to lynch mafia. So why should I even care if Toaster might be 3p? The thing I care about is are they maf, and independence says they aren't maf. Done.
I agree that Tric probably is not mafia. Still kinda want to lynch him though, even third party Tric is enough to wreck a game
TricMagic.
So far, he has gone nuts posting about hats. Besides hatting up the place we have:
Briefly we see a flash of analysis (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469243#msg8469243)
His refusal to state his alignment (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469250#msg8469250), which I find suspicious.
Other than that, it's the hat bonanza party hour. I realize Tric's play can be weird (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469269#msg8469269), but no one responded to that. As such, Tric has not actually done anything useful, but he's made a lot of noise. I'm quite happy voting him.
Why do you think Tric isn't Mafia? More importantly, who is?
Tric isn't mafia because he's a hat tyrant and the hat tyrant wins alone.
The more important question will require more effort than I have available at the moment. Was considering Leng but she posted a tasty readslist and I love to see those...
PPE: so… Tric appears to be claiming town? Not wanting to take KW’s hat because they appear town. Acting like a TP though.
Would it be so bad for Tric to exit the game because they’ve won when they get enough hats..?
Tric what’s your alignment?
Tric has claimed to be stealing hats. I dunno how many action points the mafia kill takes up (3 I guess?) but chances are good that if he's confirming his actions through hat theft, then at least we can be reasonably sure he's not murdering folk. Low priority elimination.
Re: Tric, I think it's fine for players to have different styles, it only becomes a problem when this is cause to drop all suspicion or when players decide not to engage with them to avoid the headache.
I've said that pretension is Fallacy's biggest scumtell before, right?Ah, crapoly, I forgot to rate the genuineness of Spin's position.
(That's not even a real dividing line since you can believe Tric is a third-party without wanting to lynch him.)
I'd prefer to lynch scum than to lynch a 3p.Well yes, that's ideal, of course. Scum is more dangerous and more effective.
Here's the thing. Putting people into groups is a wonderful way to divert suspision. What are the chances that your mafia buddies are on both sides of the divide FallacyofUrist?I'd prefer to lynch scum than to lynch a 3p.Well yes, that's ideal, of course. Scum is more dangerous and more effective.
I'm proposing Tric is scum based on the oddness of other peoples' interactions with him. Could be wrong, but I have to start somewhere.
Is it bad that I've seen Tric OMGUS so many times that I consider it a nulltell in Tric's case? It's stupid and unhelpful, but if you do it every time...That's not bad, that's just "being right". If he doesn't do it, that's when you worry.
Here's the thing. Putting people into groups is a wonderful way to divert suspision. What are the chances that your mafia buddies are on both sides of the divide FallacyofUrist?It's normal to group people up explicitly or implicitly when making a reads list, and even if it wasn't conventional, my post was a sort of reads list.
Also making this push during my usual bedtime, so I can't just claim and save myself. To wit, I steal hats. I use hats. I gift hats. I steal from the sus and give to the crewmates. It's a good shot at lynching me, but no dice. Just dragon.I don't keep much track of when people get up and go to bed here. I'd call posting a case when someone is about to sleep just so they can't defend themselves, acting in bad faith.
Is it bad that I've seen Tric OMGUS so many times that I consider it a nulltell in Tric's case? It's stupid and unhelpful, but if you do it every time...Tric is Tric. I wouldn't even consider him as scum (just third party) except for the fact that the interactions with him committed by several people are, to use his own language, sus.
Hmmm.I mean, you're not wrong. I never tell my actual alignment. For all you know, I'm spreading WIFOM around and Fal is right. But that still makes me an uninformative lynch. I would need to be mafia, but mafia would never have approved of this. I have a higher chance of being an SK than mafia. Some sort of weird Hat Arsonist. As such, my lynch doesn't tell anything if I'm third party, and if I'm town they can use that to build a smokescreen.
Jack. If you aren't scum, come vote Fallacy with me. I may end up regretting saying this, but I don't think Toaster is likely to be scum. His read may be dumb, but it's consistent with what I've seen from him as town before: uncomfortable with deviations from a rigid idea of Proper Mafia meta. I don't really believe he is using this as a replacement for scumhunting, but rather that he genuinely believes he is scumhunting.
Also, you too, Toony. Come over to the, uh, non-Fallacious side!Is it bad that I've seen Tric OMGUS so many times that I consider it a nulltell in Tric's case? It's stupid and unhelpful, but if you do it every time...That's not bad, that's just "being right". If he doesn't do it, that's when you worry.
Hmmm.The thing is, he's not even trying, really. That wouldn't be suspect (knowing Tric), except for the fact that I've seen him actually try to hunt, before. He's not town. I can't look at his behavior and think town, even given Tric's abnormal practices.
Jack. If you aren't scum, come vote Fallacy with me. I may end up regretting saying this, but I don't think Toaster is likely to be scum. His read may be dumb, but it's consistent with what I've seen from him as town before: uncomfortable with deviations from a rigid idea of Proper Mafia meta. I don't really believe he is using this as a replacement for scumhunting, but rather that he genuinely believes he is scumhunting.
FoU: I don't have a particular problem with a Tric lynch, but I do think it's wasteful. if hypothedically we lynched Tric and he flipped 3p as I expect will happen, what do you think we'd get from that?And I'm currently expecting he's more likely to be scum than third party, and more likely to be third party than town.
Max: Why should I think FoU is scum? I think Tric is 3p and that it's a waste to lynch a 3p, but I don't see what's wrong with FoU. as I said in my question to Jim, to me FoU seems very town.Absolutely nothing. Good day sir!
FoU: I don't have a particular problem with a Tric lynch, but I do think it's wasteful. if hypothedically we lynched Tric and he flipped 3p as I expect will happen, what do you think we'd get from that?
To Note, Jack is actually the safest lynch target, both on Scum's side and Towns. A doublevote they don't know about? Yes, perfect Day 1 Elim.
In the same manner, this lynch on me would also be perfect. Had I not been awake. This dragon don't lie, the hats are mine to steal and gift. And perhaps most importantly... My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party. Tell me this is a strategy that mafia would approve of? I say they'd have to be insane to do so. Ignoring my first NAI post, my plan from the start was to be seen as the Third Party, cause no one would hunt me on Day 1. Mafia won't believe me to be a threat naturally. But as a lynch? I'm extremely divisive, enough to hide connections between mafia partners, and you were their scapegoat and mouthpiece Fallacy.
I mean, you're not wrong. I never tell my actual alignment. For all you know, I'm spreading WIFOM around and Fal is right. But that still makes me an uninformative lynch. I would need to be mafia, but mafia would never have approved of this. I have a higher chance of being an SK than mafia. Some sort of weird Hat Arsonist. As such, my lynch doesn't tell anything if I'm third party, and if I'm town they can use that to build a smokescreen.
drinks from the chocolate river. If I flip as town, mafia wins. If I flip as TP, mafia wins. If I flip as mafia, mafia wins. A better plan for me would be to cause as much Chaos as possible before Time's up. Looks at thread title. In any case, there isn't a scenario where this is good for town. And shooting me is worse, since I currently have no powers. They just don't want their hats taken and given to someone actually deserving of them.
So.. Fallacy. Are you saying you want to Thunderdome with this most fiery dragon of hats? You first, me second.
Max: Why should I think FoU is scum? I think Tric is 3p and that it's a waste to lynch a 3p, but I don't see what's wrong with FoU. as I said in my question to Jim, to me FoU seems very town.It's hard for me to explain, someone like Jim, who also said he saw it, might be able to give you a better rundown. I'm not very detail-oriented, so the best I can really say is "this sounds like how scum Fallacy usually smells". To at least explain what I mean about the immediate current situation, though: This in particular is something Fallacy does as scum: he's trying to mimic a not-fully-realized idea of what his townself would do, something like "well if I were town I would analyze something", so he picks something that has nothing to do with anything, insists in a very stentorian way that it's the real, correct way to scumhunt in this game, then generates a lot of vague scummy allusions toward something mysterious that somehow connects an indefinite number of people in some open-ended way, and keeps harping on it to try to get people to focus on it and not actually look for anything real. It usually comes with a very pretentious professor-hat attitude.
You've also missed that I have done analysis, and been building my reads up. I've read this thread, every single page. I can confiently say Knightwing is town, and Max is likely town. (From that one post I mentioned.) Toaster is unlikely to be mafia from my read, and Lenglon and you have been on my radar. (Granted, Lenglon is odd for me.) Jack's also been off, but early days yet.Well if you don't show your analysis, how are we supposed to know you are doing analyzing?
Hector/Toony is a wait and see approach. I'm fairly sure I've seen them play together before? (Note this is just seeing how they play off each other day 2.) ... Everything else, wait and see how things go. You say I haven't been scumhunting, and I say you are 90% correct, I've been sitting, dreaming about hats, as I watch what goes on around me. That ame divisiveness you acclaim to make me seem a good lynch target? It's just a result of the strategy I've taken for day 1. See what bites, and then break out the teeth.
It's hard for me to explain, someone like Jim, who also said he saw it, might be able to give you a better rundown. I'm not very detail-oriented, so the best I can really say is "this sounds like how scum Fallacy usually smells". To at least explain what I mean about the immediate current situation, though: This in particular is something Fallacy does as scum: he's trying to mimic a not-fully-realized idea of what his townself would do, something like "well if I were town I would analyze something", so he picks something that has nothing to do with anything, insists in a very stentorian way that it's the real, correct way to scumhunt in this game, then generates a lot of vague scummy allusions toward something mysterious that somehow connects an indefinite number of people in some open-ended way, and keeps harping on it to try to get people to focus on it and not actually look for anything real. It usually comes with a very pretentious professor-hat attitude.You simultaneously assume my competence and incompetence together in a way that makes no sense to me.
In contrast, the real town Fallacy is paranoid and confused (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181535.msg8465080#msg8465080) and tends to think everything is about him, getting lost in his emotive reactions to everything said to him, like I said in my reply to that post.
The difference is actually quite subtle because, as you can see in that link, town Fallacy is also pretentious in a different way where he thinks he is being very clever with wordplay. With practice, though, it is usually identifiable.
Okay, I was able to explain that better than I thought I would be.
The fact you can call this trash says a lot. As mafia would want a doublevoter doubledead. After all, if it's not their doublevoter, then it's a liabilty. Unless they think they can control Euchrejack. I have little hope of doing so. One of his sheeping targets might, but uh... Sheeping is bad Jack, make reads before you commit to that.To Note, Jack is actually the safest lynch target, both on Scum's side and Towns. A doublevote they don't know about? Yes, perfect Day 1 Elim.
In the same manner, this lynch on me would also be perfect. Had I not been awake. This dragon don't lie, the hats are mine to steal and gift. And perhaps most importantly... My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party. Tell me this is a strategy that mafia would approve of? I say they'd have to be insane to do so. Ignoring my first NAI post, my plan from the start was to be seen as the Third Party, cause no one would hunt me on Day 1. Mafia won't believe me to be a threat naturally. But as a lynch? I'm extremely divisive, enough to hide connections between mafia partners, and you were their scapegoat and mouthpiece Fallacy.
I mean, you're not wrong. I never tell my actual alignment. For all you know, I'm spreading WIFOM around and Fal is right. But that still makes me an uninformative lynch. I would need to be mafia, but mafia would never have approved of this. I have a higher chance of being an SK than mafia. Some sort of weird Hat Arsonist. As such, my lynch doesn't tell anything if I'm third party, and if I'm town they can use that to build a smokescreen.
This is all garbage.
Jack is a poor execution target for scum since he has two votes, and at least for Day 1, for town too because town would prefer to keep a double voter in their pocket than to remove them willy-nilly.
There are enough mafia players here willing to go for a gambit that would make enough sense from your perspective that I don't think this disqualifies you from being scum. Taking refuge in audacity won't save you. (But your partners might) The strategy you propose also makes a lot of sense as a scum player. It'd also be very competent of you to do so, albeit madness at the same time. But you know. That's TricMagic.
The fact that most everyone has a divisive opinion on you makes you a very informative execution. You can't say 'mafia would never approve of this'. That's WIFOM. Audacious strategies are valid.
I'd eat my hat if you were town.
Even if you kill me, by curse or by time, I shall burn you to ash. For none can stop the Dragon of Hats. (haha. Very serious Fallacy. Nice to see you having fun.)drinks from the chocolate river. If I flip as town, mafia wins. If I flip as TP, mafia wins. If I flip as mafia, mafia wins. A better plan for me would be to cause as much Chaos as possible before Time's up. Looks at thread title. In any case, there isn't a scenario where this is good for town. And shooting me is worse, since I currently have no powers. They just don't want their hats taken and given to someone actually deserving of them.
So.. Fallacy. Are you saying you want to Thunderdome with this most fiery dragon of hats? You first, me second.
If you flip as mafia, then mafia loses one of their limited members. The mafia, being outnumbered, do not want to lose members. That makes no sense. If you flip as third party, at least the mafia don't lose one of their members, but neither do the town. It's a neutral outcome, good for them only in that it narrows down their targets. Of course if you flip as town, then the mafia benefit, but I am willing to bet that you are not town.
Yes. I will fight you. I will suffer and bleed for it, and be tortured by the spears of your partners and admirers, who believe that the most holy dragon of hats TricMagic cannot possibly be scum in any way due to your sheer audacity
But I will make you bleed, dragon. My mere mortal hands will pierce your scales, rip out your heart, and bring an end to your menace.
You've also missed that I have done analysis, and been building my reads up. I've read this thread, every single page. I can confiently say Knightwing is town, and Max is likely town. (From that one post I mentioned.) Toaster is unlikely to be mafia from my read, and Lenglon and you have been on my radar. (Granted, Lenglon is odd for me.) Jack's also been off, but early days yet.cool. flesh these out please, and then sell me on why you haven't been pushing, presenting, or actively investigating any of it.
Hector/Toony is a wait and see approach. I'm fairly sure I've seen them play together before? (Note this is just seeing how they play off each other day 2.) ... Everything else, wait and see how things go. You say I haven't been scumhunting, and I say you are 90% correct, I've been sitting, dreaming about hats, as I watch what goes on around me. That ame divisiveness you acclaim to make me seem a good lynch target? It's just a result of the strategy I've taken for day 1. See what bites, and then break out the teeth.
The fact you can call this trash says a lot. As mafia would want a doublevoter doubledead. After all, if it's not their doublevoter, then it's a liabilty. Unless they think they can control Euchrejack. I have little hope of doing so. One of his sheeping targets might, but uh... Sheeping is bad Jack, make reads before you commit to that.Yes, of course the mafia will want a double voter to die before LYLO, but angering a double voter is a surefire way to have a bad time not getting executed, and it's harder to execute someone with more votes to defend themselves with. The mafia can just shoot Jack, if he's not scum, and if he's easy enough to manipulate they can afford to wait until it's near LYLO.
And yeah, it's audacious. For a solo player. Between getting my role and posting, what are the chances that mafia approved of this in the first place? There isn't much time between things, and OoT you can check my arrival in the discord for when I clicked the link. That's WIFOM too though.
Even if you kill me, by curse or by time, I shall burn you to ash. For none can stop the Dragon of Hats. (haha. Very serious Fallacy. Nice to see you having fun.)
Honestly feel for you. But timing is everything sometimes. 10% is still 1.5 people cleared. Which is a win in my book.Can't you do better than that, if you're town? If you're a dragon, aren't dragons supposed to be ambitious? You do not have to hatctive lurk. You can fully engage in the conversations the rest of the town are sharing.
You simultaneously assume my competence and incompetence together in a way that makes no sense to me.Yes, like I said before, that's exactly it. You have a unique and recognizable blend of competence and incompetence. You don't seem to realize how impulsive and, often, inattentive you really are. You are simultaneously smart enough to come up with plans, but not enough to stop yourself from stepping in them in certain noticeable ways.
cool. flesh these out please, and then sell me on why you haven't been pushing, presenting, or actively investigating any of it.Honestly? And I know you didn't ask me and I'm not really going to push the point anyway? I assumed that Tric was probably joking about being a 3p (and is actually town). Not that he couldn't be, but that it didn't seem like it.
You almost-directly claimed to be 3p repeatedly. You have made general statements of "hey scum don't nk me" on repeat. You failed to participate in scumhunting in any meaningful way. Everything you've said has either been self-defense or hathathathathathathat. I've been taking you at your word that you're a 3p, and your behavior has been that of a 3p. is there any reason to think that you're town?
sitting on the sidelines waiting is also known as lurking. I've been willing to tolerate it because it's both a 3p tell and a scumtell. If you convince me that you aren't 3p then i'll be voting you instantly, because to me 3p and scum are the only options here. As I said, this is an acceptable lynch to me, I just think it's a bit wasteful and would prefer to lynch scum over 3p.
Can't you do better than that, if you're town? If you're a dragon, aren't dragons supposed to be ambitious? You do not have to hatctive lurk. You can fully engage in the conversations the rest of the town are sharing.Addendum, minor: Tric also sometimes has a martyr complex and will absolutely let himself get lynched to clear the people who were pulling for him.
Unless of course you're mafia and have no inherent desire to do so.
Honestly? And I know you didn't ask me and I'm not really going to push the point anyway? I assumed that Tric was probably joking about being a 3p (and is actually town). Not that he couldn't be, but that it didn't seem like it.mostly honestly. I'm overstating my case because I want Tric to flinch in response to it. There actually is still a world where Tric is town, but if it ever was important I feel I could make a very clear case of him attempting to communicate with the scumteam via the day thread, which is the biggest 3p tell around.
Yes, like I said before, that's exactly it. You have a unique and recognizable blend of competence and incompetence. You don't seem to realize how impulsive and, often, inattentive you really are. You are simultaneously smart enough to come up with plans, but not enough to stop yourself from stepping in them in certain noticeable ways.Well thanks, I guess.
That may be harsh, but I am being frank.
Relatedly: Jack has two votes out of sixteen. It's not that special. If mafia wanted him out badly enough, he'd be out. I could get him out if I had been mafia, and that's not just bragging.Yes.
Honestly? And I know you didn't ask me and I'm not really going to push the point anyway? I assumed that Tric was probably joking about being a 3p (and is actually town). Not that he couldn't be, but that it didn't seem like it.I was half-tempted to try analyzing Tric's sense of humor, but I think I have better things to do.
Thank you, vile knave. This point. See above, Tric.I'm disagreeing with you. You said the mafia wouldn't try, or would have a hard time trying, to vote out a town double-voter. I said it would be easy and worth trying.
If I am not willing to die for town, then I am scum, yes? In a 15P game, getting out mafia is a fine sacrifice.Do you think I'm scum, and if so, why?
But they can just shoot the double voter instead of risking a messy day fight and potentially making an enemy.Thank you, vile knave. This point. See above, Tric.I'm disagreeing with you. You said the mafia wouldn't try, or would have a hard time trying, to vote out a town double-voter. I said it would be easy and worth trying.
Hello RVS. The simple fact is, you pushed a case against me. So I pushed back. If I die overnight, any town credit you have would vanish. If you die, I at least get to steal a hat before I die. I might even make it to the second night to use it, hence confirming my role. I've not asked Webadict if I can use a hat and gift it the same night, but I'm hopeful given the change to action resolution.Lenglon: I feel like it's a passable vessel for breaking the ice. It rarely on its own generates real value, and I think it mostly happens because no one has come up with a serviceable alternative that's worth anything. Many many years ago, you'd see practically arbitrary tunneling right out the gate, but it's been a while since I can recall seeing it.
Lenglon is obvscum. I used my one-shot infallible nuclear awesome day-alignment inspect no-failure-possible ability on her and she's mafia. Everyone vote Lenglon now or I will break your legs.
That and if it's not a mafia doublevoter, they don't want them around during later days where it has more weight. Sure they could kill them, but that's a bit risky this game. Could be watchers about. In the same manner, they need to tread carefully for any major figures who might draw attention. It's almost the perfect plan if you want to survive till day 4. At which point I'd hope to have established town credit to pull me out of the TP debt.Yeah, but just as much as there could be watchers, there could just as easily be anti-watchers. We don't have that knowledge about the game state yet.
As for my humor, it is Dragon and Hats. Blame webadict for the latter, it's his fault. He dared us.
Hello RVS. The simple fact is, you pushed a case against me. So I pushed back. If I die overnight, any town credit you have would vanish. If you die, I at least get to steal a hat before I die. I might even make it to the second night to use it, hence confirming my role. I've not asked Webadict if I can use a hat and gift it the same night, but I'm hopeful given the change to action resolution.Yes, pushing back is understandable, but pushing back can take more forms than just a counter vote. Do you think I am scum? Yes or no answer, with details as to why, please.
And as you said... A divisive lynch will reveal info, wouldn't it? Are you willing to step onto the pyre~
I've been reading through Toaster's posts and I've come across a post where they say "TricMagic is Org 2.0.".Org is the name of a player from years (think over a decade) ago famous for shitposting and doing basically nothing else.
Who (or what) is "Org 2.0"?
I've been reading through Toaster's posts and I've come across a post where they say "TricMagic is Org 2.0.".Distant forum history, a player named Org. Before my time too, but I gather he was bad.
Who (or what) is "Org 2.0"?
But anyway, who do you think is scum right now, and who do you think is town? Why?Oh hey a question I love those! Anyway as far as town goes the only person im like almost certain on of at least not being mafia is Tric their role and general abilities are just too out there for me to think webadict would make a mafia that public having a mafia that gives buffs to (presumably) everyone would be a bit strange as well. In my eyes they are either some type of neutral third party or town.
As for who the scum is this one im much less certain on but if I had to say someone I would say at the moment EuchreJack his logic for his votes so far seem quite questionable and while most of it I think is RVS sheniganry he keeps changing it up so dang often that its making me lose track of what his actual views on things are which feels like something a mafia would do. His logic for who is and isnt bad is also questionable but when its the first day and your forced to go off gut feelings more then anything else that isnt that surprising. This is a very weak convention atm though and im probably not gonna push it if he makes a compelling case for what he is trying to accomplish.
Knightwing64, EuchreJack: Are you sure the people you are following are your benevolent shepards? Or, are they wolves in shephards clothing leading you to your doom? Also, how did you come to this conclusion?
What’s with the riddles? I don’t trust anyone 100% at this point, it’s d1.
Generally I make it a rule to trust Tric, which normally bites me in the ass, but sometimes has good results.
Jack has opinions that seemingly deviate from everybody else, obv scum or perhaps a unbelieved prophet?
Personally not a fan of voting Jack, it seems a little too easy. I won’t fight against it, but I don’t prefer it. Jack is generally a useful town, so if they turn out town, that’s a huge loss for town, at least in my opinion.
Juicebox at first glance appears to just be a dedicated town, but I don’t know how they play, so for all I know that could be a scum tell.
Fluffe exists, I have a bad feeling about them, but it’s just a gut feeling and I have no actual evidence, so probably not too important right now.
Toonyman is as always 200 IQ, I cannot hope to fathom his thought process, so I am a firm neutral on them. Although anyone who has a few braincells leaves me on edge.
Curious Cat has a cat in name, don’t trust, dogs are obv better
Toaster is kinda a null, other then their opinion of Tric.
I naturally distrust Lenglon, as they drove me insanity trying to get me out during a game I was town because they didn’t like the cut of my jib.
Jim is in the same boat as Toony, mostly.
And that’s everyone I can currently think of at the moment. Huzzah, a post of length, width and height!
To Note, Jack is actually the safest lynch target, both on Scum's side and Towns. A doublevote they don't know about? Yes, perfect Day 1 Elim.
In the same manner, this lynch on me would also be perfect. Had I not been awake. This dragon don't lie, the hats are mine to steal and gift. And perhaps most importantly... My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party. Tell me this is a strategy that mafia would approve of? I say they'd have to be insane to do so. Ignoring my first NAI post, my plan from the start was to be seen as the Third Party, cause no one would hunt me on Day 1. Mafia won't believe me to be a threat naturally. But as a lynch? I'm extremely divisive, enough to hide connections between mafia partners, and you were their scapegoat and mouthpiece Fallacy.Hmmm.I mean, you're not wrong. I never tell my actual alignment. For all you know, I'm spreading WIFOM around and Fal is right. But that still makes me an uninformative lynch. I would need to be mafia, but mafia would never have approved of this. I have a higher chance of being an SK than mafia. Some sort of weird Hat Arsonist. As such, my lynch doesn't tell anything if I'm third party, and if I'm town they can use that to build a smokescreen.
Jack. If you aren't scum, come vote Fallacy with me. I may end up regretting saying this, but I don't think Toaster is likely to be scum. His read may be dumb, but it's consistent with what I've seen from him as town before: uncomfortable with deviations from a rigid idea of Proper Mafia meta. I don't really believe he is using this as a replacement for scumhunting, but rather that he genuinely believes he is scumhunting.
Also, you too, Toony. Come over to the, uh, non-Fallacious side!Is it bad that I've seen Tric OMGUS so many times that I consider it a nulltell in Tric's case? It's stupid and unhelpful, but if you do it every time...That's not bad, that's just "being right". If he doesn't do it, that's when you worry.
Nin.
The fact you can call this trash says a lot. As mafia would want a doublevoter doubledead. After all, if it's not their doublevoter, then it's a liabilty. Unless they think they can control Euchrejack. I have little hope of doing so. One of his sheeping targets might, but uh... Sheeping is bad Jack, make reads before you commit to that.To Note, Jack is actually the safest lynch target, both on Scum's side and Towns. A doublevote they don't know about? Yes, perfect Day 1 Elim.
In the same manner, this lynch on me would also be perfect. Had I not been awake. This dragon don't lie, the hats are mine to steal and gift. And perhaps most importantly... My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party. Tell me this is a strategy that mafia would approve of? I say they'd have to be insane to do so. Ignoring my first NAI post, my plan from the start was to be seen as the Third Party, cause no one would hunt me on Day 1. Mafia won't believe me to be a threat naturally. But as a lynch? I'm extremely divisive, enough to hide connections between mafia partners, and you were their scapegoat and mouthpiece Fallacy.
I mean, you're not wrong. I never tell my actual alignment. For all you know, I'm spreading WIFOM around and Fal is right. But that still makes me an uninformative lynch. I would need to be mafia, but mafia would never have approved of this. I have a higher chance of being an SK than mafia. Some sort of weird Hat Arsonist. As such, my lynch doesn't tell anything if I'm third party, and if I'm town they can use that to build a smokescreen.
This is all garbage.
Jack is a poor execution target for scum since he has two votes, and at least for Day 1, for town too because town would prefer to keep a double voter in their pocket than to remove them willy-nilly.
There are enough mafia players here willing to go for a gambit that would make enough sense from your perspective that I don't think this disqualifies you from being scum. Taking refuge in audacity won't save you. (But your partners might) The strategy you propose also makes a lot of sense as a scum player. It'd also be very competent of you to do so, albeit madness at the same time. But you know. That's TricMagic.
The fact that most everyone has a divisive opinion on you makes you a very informative execution. You can't say 'mafia would never approve of this'. That's WIFOM. Audacious strategies are valid.
I'd eat my hat if you were town.
And yeah, it's audacious. For a solo player. Between getting my role and posting, what are the chances that mafia approved of this in the first place? There isn't much time between things, and OoT you can check my arrival in the discord for when I clicked the link. That's WIFOM too though.Even if you kill me, by curse or by time, I shall burn you to ash. For none can stop the Dragon of Hats. (haha. Very serious Fallacy. Nice to see you having fun.)drinks from the chocolate river. If I flip as town, mafia wins. If I flip as TP, mafia wins. If I flip as mafia, mafia wins. A better plan for me would be to cause as much Chaos as possible before Time's up. Looks at thread title. In any case, there isn't a scenario where this is good for town. And shooting me is worse, since I currently have no powers. They just don't want their hats taken and given to someone actually deserving of them.
So.. Fallacy. Are you saying you want to Thunderdome with this most fiery dragon of hats? You first, me second.
If you flip as mafia, then mafia loses one of their limited members. The mafia, being outnumbered, do not want to lose members. That makes no sense. If you flip as third party, at least the mafia don't lose one of their members, but neither do the town. It's a neutral outcome, good for them only in that it narrows down their targets. Of course if you flip as town, then the mafia benefit, but I am willing to bet that you are not town.
Yes. I will fight you. I will suffer and bleed for it, and be tortured by the spears of your partners and admirers, who believe that the most holy dragon of hats TricMagic cannot possibly be scum in any way due to your sheer audacity
But I will make you bleed, dragon. My mere mortal hands will pierce your scales, rip out your heart, and bring an end to your menace.
That and if it's not a mafia doublevoter, they don't want them around during later days where it has more weight. Sure they could kill them, but that's a bit risky this game. Could be watchers about. In the same manner, they need to tread carefully for any major figures who might draw attention. It's almost the perfect plan if you want to survive till day 4. At which point I'd hope to have established town credit to pull me out of the TP debt.
As for my humor, it is Dragon and Hats. Blame webadict for the latter, it's his fault. He dared us.
Ninja'd. Would you like spies with that?
The first part of this post is off to me. It reads to me as if Tric is certain Jack isn't scumHe does this as town. I've tried to get Tric lynched for "slipping" and he was town in that game. I can try to find it.
I don't believe a single thing FoU has said in the last few pages. I have no idea why they have this crazy obsession with Tric. I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me. It's not TricToonyman: Explain this.
I can't find an immediate example on the spot, but in Web's Supernatural I was railing Tric here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.msg8410619#msg8410619) and one of the things was I thought he was implying things that contradicted himself. I'm almost certain he's made statements that look like slips as town if I can manage to find an example from scrawling.The first part of this post is off to me. It reads to me as if Tric is certain Jack isn't scumHe does this as town. I've tried to get Tric lynched for "slipping" and he was town in that game. I can try to find it.
Explain what? I don't believe FoU. FoU wants to vote Tric for information (if they're town or mafia) or because they're third-party. I think that's a bad reason to vote Tric. Why not vote Jim or Max if you suspect them to be chainsaw defending Tric? I think it's more likely a mafia!Jim or mafia!Max would defend a town!Tric. I don't like FoU's reasoning at all here.I don't believe a single thing FoU has said in the last few pages. I have no idea why they have this crazy obsession with Tric. I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me. It's not TricToonyman: Explain this.
Also, to be fair to TricMagic, he makes baffling decisions but he does put in effort and has a reasonable understanding of the game state at any given time.
I am fundamentally appalled you think that's a flash of analysis. Like... Really? That's what you call analysis?
That said, you've certianly leaned scum for me with this. Which kinda makes all the noise I'm making worthwhile, it's meant to draw out scum. If I eat a kill, that's an L for mafia. And I never say I'm town, unless I'm a dragon, then I say I'm a Dragon. (I find that game the funniest since I outright said what I was and was read as town the whole game, all the way to the end.)
I like hats. I need to steal hats to actually do anything. Gib me ma Hat.
suddenly actual content
My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party.
Anyway as far as town goes the only person im like almost certain on of at least not being mafia is Tric their role and general abilities are just too out there for me to think webadict would make a mafia that public having a mafia that gives buffs to (presumably) everyone would be a bit strange as well.
FALLACYOFURIST SUPER MEGA PLAN
I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me.
Why not vote Jim or Max if you suspect them to be chainsaw defending Tric? I think it's more likely a mafia!Jim or mafia!Max would defend a town!Tric.Toony: These two statements do not match.
What? FoU's said they find my defense of Tric genuine but don't find Jim's defense of Tric genuine. I'm saying that Jim put more reasoning into why Tric is likely not mafia than I did at that time. Which Max agreed with as well. So unless FoU is a god-wizard and is right on the money of a Tric/Jim/Max/Hector scumteam I think he's full of crap.I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me.Why not vote Jim or Max if you suspect them to be chainsaw defending Tric? I think it's more likely a mafia!Jim or mafia!Max would defend a town!Tric.Toony: These two statements do not match.
Toony: also, You say that Jim did a better job than you at explaining why you don't like FoU. I didn't understand Jim's reasoning in any meaningful way. It seemed like Jim was just saying that Tric was townie because Tric was townie, despite Tric to my eyes almost outright claiming to be 3p. So please tell me what Jim's reasoning was, then what yours is.I think before Jim posted all I had said about Tric was that I was extremely (100%) confident they weren't mafia. Jim posted this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469437#msg8469437) before I had elaborated (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469417#msg8469417) to Toaster when they questioned me about it.
ffs. okay, apparently I'm not remembering things straight. I somehow had it in my head that Jim was saying Tric was obvtown and that you wanted FoU lynched for voting obvtown.I find FoU suspicious because their opener was lukewarm "I'm pretty sure I'm town" and then claimed uninspectable. I read them successfully as town during the start of the previous game where they sounded more genuine and resolute "I felt tears of joy seeing my role was town" or something. In addition their attack of Tric doesn't make sense to me and it looks like they're trying to vote someone for faulty reasons.
Instead you want FoU lynched because...?
Quick PfpI meant that as in there hasn't been any follow up on it so far. Also what do you mean you're out of vote changes?I don't like changing my vote a lot. If I don't have someone in mind to change it to, I tend to leave it in one place. So I was just kind of making a joke referencing that.
I didn't really think I needed to follow up. I still think Fallacy's suspicious - Jim actually just did a great job explaining why - but so do several other people, there's a lot of game left, I didn't think I needed to press the issue? This might be part of what ToonyMan means by saying I play selfishly. I just sort of think it is not my job to get this guy in particular voted out. You can even see the clear difference, if you look up webadict's Supernatural (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180323.0), when it was in fact literally my job to get one guy in particular voted out.Maximum Spin - no complaints, much like notquitethere; His statement about trying to be more helpful did make me raise my eyebrow a little because I remember EuchreJack's comment from AutoMafia where he said if Max is trying to be helpful then he's scum and if he's trying to be aloof then he's town.I like most everything in this readslist, but I just want to reassure you that EuchreJack isn't the god of my meta.
The eight posts starting from here: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469503#msg8469503)
I don't like this disengaged Knightwing, I don't feel good about this fake-looking Jack Panic, and I'm not a fan of this interaction, especially from two people I would most expect to interact like this as scum.
Wow, I guess that's everything. I thought there was going to be more. Maybe in my first readthrough I had more to say that I cared about less this time around.
My first instinct is to vote Knightwing. This isn't related to Lenglon doing so, I've been thinking about it since last night; but the reasoning is the same. This Knightwing seems, once again, to be faking playing the game. I also 100% believe he would submit mafia as his role preference, for what that's worth.
I like this post from Max, it's enough for me to unvote for now
Oh and before I forget, Tricmagic
So, crazy theory. I think the scumteam could realistically be TricMagic, Jim Groovester, and then one or both of hector13/notquitethere, depending on how the setup works out. If there's a bunch of third parties it'd be just one of them, if not it's both.
Jim and notquitethere's behavior seems to match the idea of 'distance the guy that'll drag us down like an anchor if we don't'. Reluctant to target him, but acknowledging that he's funky as hell. Hector is less suspicious, but still a possibility.
If this theory does hold water I'd scum-percentage these people as 100% scum (required) TricMagic, 85% scum Jim, 65% notquitethere, 40% scum hector.
The thing is though?
This makes TricMagic an ideal execution / vote. Based on this connection, it'll be extremely informative about the scumminess or lack thereof of a good few people. Nearly everyone has thoughts on Tric. We don't lose anything from the vote since the most likely outcomes are he's either third party or scum - most of us don't think he's town.
It's, in other words, a safe, effective execution - perfect for Day 1.
I'm willing to sustain this vote for the remainder of the day unless a better target presents themselves.
Maximum Spin: Who's your pick after Fallacy? Why?Assuming Fallacy is in fact scum, or if he turns out to be town somehow?
Toony: I was voting on my own to see how others responded, including voting Toaster as you & Jim seemed to suspect him. But you seem to have been doing well, and I love TMNT, so I guess I can sheep you for a bit.
Maximum Spin: Who's your pick after Fallacy? Why?Assuming Fallacy is in fact scum, or if he turns out to be town somehow?
Also, you quoted juicebox voting Tric, not you.
What? FoU's said they find my defense of Tric genuine but don't find Jim's defense of Tric genuine. I'm saying that Jim put more reasoning into why Tric is likely not mafia than I did at that time. Which Max agreed with as well. So unless FoU is a god-wizard and is right on the money of a Tric/Jim/Max/Hector scumteam I think he's full of crap.Length and genuineness aren't necessarily the same thing. Jim said more than you, but nothing about Jim's behavior made any sense there, but while yours was shorter, it was at least internally coherent.
If TricMagic actually transitions into acting properly town, I'll probably unvote, or move back to Jim.
Why you answerin’ questions for other people eh? Totes scum. /s
I should be voting so I guess I’ll back up my stuff on NQT.
*10 hours later*
notquitethere
Fallacy:Currently I don't really care about the number of people voting Tric? He's not going to go down, so what matters more is what I learned from the attempt.If TricMagic actually transitions into acting properly town, I'll probably unvote, or move back to Jim.
Is this an actual response to my unvote, which is me unvoting him because I think he's acting better? It doesn't sound like one.
Neither. Who's your next pick right now?I really don't like this question. My pick right now is Fallacy. I have other suspicions, but I want to resolve Fallacy in order to inform those suspicions. Even if nobody else in the game were voting Fallacy, I might very well just keep my vote here out of pure stubbornness.
-> Toaster --3-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469461#msg8469461), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469461#msg8469461), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469379#msg8469379),
... Music. (https://youtu.be/6LLCrKLZdlY)
So.. Fallacy. Are you saying you want to Thunderdome with this most fiery dragon of hats? You first, me second.
notquitethere
So true.WAITING TO EVOLVE INTO LATE GAME FORM(Cool Image)
Knightwing64, EuchreJack: Are you sure the people you are following are your benevolent shepards? Or, are they wolves in shephards clothing leading you to your doom? Also, how did you come to this conclusion?
thoughts
ugg. hey guys. I should be post number 400, which is neat. I don't have mental energy today, which is probably disappointing after yesterday, but it's the truth.
Fallacy's case is pretty sound, as Tric usually does make for a good info lynch. Usually I would caution against pushing for such a lynch until later in the day, but as it seems to have caused a slip, I'll let it slide for now.
Oh and before I forget, Tricmagic
QuoteFALLACYOFURIST SUPER MEGA PLAN
As an impartial observer (which I am not), this idea has merit on paper. I'd reaaaaally want to be sure I trusted you before jumping in with both feet (again, as the impartial observer I am not.)
This is especially aggravating because he simultaneously implies I’m competent enough to easily figure out Tric’s alignment but too incompetent to hide my scum strategies when I’m mafia.
doubling down on TricMagic being scum
The thing is, he's not even trying, really. That wouldn't be suspect (knowing Tric), except for the fact that I've seen him actually try to hunt, before. He's not town. I can't look at his behavior and think town, even given Tric's abnormal practices.
I would have just labeled him as third party (see earlier), except people are defending him in really odd ways, starting with Jim.
Nearly certain Jim's going to launch a case on me as soon as he's next on the forum.
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum.
Okay Jim is the hivemind leader and he converted Max, the psychic warden. Got it.
Wait, fuck, that actually makes sense.
Jim as Hivemind, uses the tech slot to get a Permanent Holoform Modulator. Uses that to show himself like a Kook would.
Converts Max, the psychic warden.
Gets Max's results, and uses the fact that I was roleblocked to fakeclaim a Snooper Bot.
Well, fuck.
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum.I believe you absolutely have, because I know I have.
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum....
SUSPICIOUS
FallacyofUrist - his read on TricMagic is amongst the worst I've ever seen. I'd feel pretty confident hammering FallacyofUrist this early in the day if he were within range
...
100% NOT MAFIA
TricMagic - easiest read in the game; given how much he's asserting 'not mafia' instead of 'town' he's probably a third party though and it would be safer to shoot him, but not now
...Lenglon and Tric are pinging scum. Is “Tric is competent and focused as scum and wildly unpredictable as town” still a valid meta read? I stand by my gut read either way.I'd say TricMagic isn't really unpredictable as town. I'd argue he's incredibly predictable given that he usually has a single minded focus on his role, which is what I'm seeing here.
...Do you trust Tric? I don’t trust Tric. Vibe check doesn’t pass. He reads like he knows what he’s doing. It’s like how I always play better when I’m scum.Voting Tric looks like a potentially reasonable option.I do not like these posts. FallacyofUrist gets the read on TricMagic horribly wrong and I do not get any sense from them that FallacyofUrist could hold or could have developed this opinion genuinely. While typing up this post I've at times called these posts gross.
Basically, what we're trying to figure out here is if he's substantially varying from his town baseline. Given how much Tric projects, that's much easier done than for say, Toony. I'd be willing to vote Tric later if a reread of his posts makes me feel like he's scum. Or malevolent third party, though I'd prefer to vote for scum. Chasing third parties too far is a fallacy (rip me).
And Max doesn't feel particularly town, except that's exactly what I felt the last few times I tried to read him, too. There's always this level of detachment which is hard to parse things through.
...
And then your most recent two posts.Jim: You and I have extremely different views of FoU. Why do you think FoU is scum? I doubt it's only FoU's stance on Tric, despite that being the only thing you said when you voted him.
It literally is only about his stance on TricMagic. FallacyofUrist has been around and should recognize that this is 100% unteamed TricMagic, yet he suspects him.
Why suspect TricMagic? Dunno. I think it's an easy read that town FallacyofUrist should easily be capable of.
FallacyofUrist is alwaysscum but he's also not very good at being scum, so I tend to think he reveals his agenda much more freely than other players would, which is what I think I'm seeing here.
Max: You and Jim seem to be on the exact same wavelength (or team), and are making nearly-identical arguments to him, with the same skipped first step. Could you please answer the same question?Wrong. I'm making a different but related argument. I don't have a problem with Fallacy's read on Tric except that it's wrong and Tric is town; rather, I have a problem with Fallacy being the one to make it. He's not allowed to do that.
FallacyofUrist is alwaysscum but he's also not very good at being scum, so I tend to think he reveals his agenda much more freely than other players would, which is what I think I'm seeing here.is certainly true.
relevant part of the quote turned orange for clarity.Max: You and Jim seem to be on the exact same wavelength (or team), and are making nearly-identical arguments to him, with the same skipped first step. Could you please answer the same question?Wrong. I'm making a different but related argument. I don't have a problem with Fallacy's read on Tric except that it's wrong and Tric is town; rather, I have a problem with Fallacy being the one to make it. He's not allowed to do that.
Sorry, that might have been a little too abstruse. I'm pretty tired. What I mean by "he's not allowed to do that" is that it's an argument that, by its construction, mafia Fallacy would make and town Fallacy should not.
The crucial point where I agree with Jim is on Fallacy's habits as a scum player. I'd hope I'd agree with everyone who's used to his play on that. For example, this:FallacyofUrist is alwaysscum but he's also not very good at being scum, so I tend to think he reveals his agenda much more freely than other players would, which is what I think I'm seeing here.is certainly true.
Max: for clarity, you think Tric is town, not 3p?Yeah.
Max: Why?A few reasons. Selected:
“Pick the most suspicious among you to be processed.”I don't have strong beliefs at this point about what these mean, but I think the lack of hats is worth listing.
“Pick the gnarliest dude among you to receive a free pizza!”
“Pick those responsible for this travesty and I will punish them.”
oh, really quick:
Cat: You've stopped participating. Don't do that.
...
Jim: Do you mind presenting your full case for us? this is all I can find:
. . .
And then your most recent two posts.
The problem I have here is that your entire basis is that "FoU's argument is bad". You don't include what the actual problem with the argument IS.
Please, take the extra steps to build a foundation for your house. What is the core, base, central, problem with FoU's case that makes FoU scum for having it? Stop skipping this step please.
snipsHow many people just skipped over my one defining post with any substance? Do you remember what it said Juicebox?
You mostly learned that I can gift hats. Not much else. I'm still waiting for that Thunderdome Fallacy, have some Conviction in your case. As is(and Toaster said it better), voting me while making that lynch my guilt. But you built that vote around people who I don't have any connections with personally. I haven't really pnged them as much, so.Fallacy:Currently I don't really care about the number of people voting Tric? He's not going to go down, so what matters more is what I learned from the attempt.If TricMagic actually transitions into acting properly town, I'll probably unvote, or move back to Jim.
Is this an actual response to my unvote, which is me unvoting him because I think he's acting better? It doesn't sound like one.
Nearly certain Jim's going to launch a case on me as soon as he's next on the forum.
I do think my case jarred Tric into action, I'm just not sure by how much and whether that means he's town.
Now the question is, which of these reads makes the least sense? Which is least genuine?This is why having a lot of discussion is good, lies like these pop up. All you need to do is look for them. (You can say you made a mistake, but it's still a fault in your reasoning.)
Fallacy Reading
Knightwing's read on Tric reeks of Knightwing. Genuineness high. What is Genuineness? You claim them to be correct in their read, yet vote me in the same post.
ToonyMan thinks Tric is being Tric. Genuineness high, but in all honesty I can't read Toony at all, generally speaking. You can't read Toony, but claim Genuineness from them. Being honest, I'm not really sure I can trust them if they're playing the long con. But that's fairly normal from me.
Fluffe is new. Genuineness high. Genuineness is new. Fluffe high. (Just words that can be swapped around. Rather than my opinion on them.)
EuchreJack... eh. Feels like he can do better. Genuineness N/A, will be reevaluated when he makes a proper effort to read him. (You claim Jack is a bad lynch, a trash read by me. Yet someone you can't trust and has yet to really be seen could be a possible Day 1 lynch. Why the Change of Heart?{I swear if that's actually your role I will laugh.})
Jim Groovester's read doesn't seem right. It seems like it's accurately described, but his behavior is eerily defensive. His sole reason for voting me is that I voted TricMagic and didn't read him how Jim read him. Genuineness low. (How is it low? They've participated, should be readable. What makes the drop in Genuineness? IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469602#msg8469602).
A point of order. Toaster was voting me before all of this. It's an outright fabrication of events to fit a theme.)
Lenglon subscribes to hat tyrant theory. Genuineness moderate? Could do with more detail. (Why is Lenglon's Genuineness moderate? This is the point where we see who you don't trust. Or are setting up. In any case, please explain why.)There probably are ninjas here. I'm posting this anyway, cause breaking apart a post is a fairly effective method of mine. Don't poke the sleeping dragon and all that. As for my third party status, no comment for now cause all my energy was focused upon this post.
juicebox subscribes to hat tyrant theory. Genuineness high, but also subject to reevaluation. This deserves more detail. (An error? What makes the difference in Genuineness and why does Hat Tyrant make a lick of difference?
... Beyond which, in the same line you say reevalutation needed, which just feels... Tacky?)
Toaster thinks TricMagic is Org's reincarnation. Genuineness high. (No data for this read. No data for the reason.)
Egan's read is very Egany. Hat tyrant theory. Genuineness high. (At this point you've just stopped No reason beyond being Egany. And not even reevaluation.. Why are these three so different?)
A_Curious_Cat, aka Chilicarp, hasn't talked about Tric. Genuineness high, it's their first game, they get some slack. (And at this point it's all about the dragon in the room, not about connections and who's mafia or not.)
hector13... hm. Feels like he's not putting as much into reading Tric as he could be. Genuineness moderate-low. (And now you subscribe Genuineness to if people are even talking about me in the first place.)
notquitethere, as mentioned, seems to be avoiding making alignment based points about Tric. (Which is how you got the Mafia Team in the first place. This is completely backwards, as you'd be making the argument Mafia has just abandoned me. While in later posts you say Mafia doesn't ant to lose a vote. So wouldn't they attack you?)
So, crazy theory. I think the scumteam could realistically be TricMagic, Jim Groovester, and then one or both of hector13/notquitethere, depending on how the setup works out. If there's a bunch of third parties it'd be just one of them, if not it's both.
Jim and notquitethere's behavior seems to match the idea of 'distance the guy that'll drag us down like an anchor if we don't'. Reluctant to target him, but acknowledging that he's funky as hell. Hector is less suspicious, but still a possibility.
If this theory does hold water I'd scum-percentage these people as 100% scum (required) TricMagic, 85% scum Jim, 65% notquitethere, 40% scum hector.
The thing is though?
This makes TricMagic an ideal execution / vote. Based on this connection, it'll be extremely informative about the scumminess or lack thereof of a good few people. Nearly everyone has thoughts on Tric. We don't lose anything from the vote since the most likely outcomes are he's either third party or scum - most of us don't think he's town. (In conclusion, you've built your case around nothing, a complete lack of connections preluding a connection based upon that. But you've used Jim as your lynchpin for the team, who is trying to protect me. So your Fallacy isn't even internally consistent. There is no data to be gained because the internal reasoning is cracked, falling apart..)
It's, in other words, a safe, effective execution - perfect for Day 1.
I'm willing to sustain this vote for the remainder of the day unless a better target presents themselves. (So.. Fallacy. Who's the better target now that you're backing off?)
Kinda hate this is true.. Max is actually on point though, and that's a very good analysis of me. hmm..Max: Why?A few reasons. Selected:
- "Third-party" wasn't an option in role selection, and I'm not totally convinced there even are any. I believe that, if it were an option, Tric might have picked it - he was very happy with his dragon win - but given that it wasn't, I strongly suspect he would submit 'town'. One of his theme words, which are a thing he absolutely has, is "honesty".
- Tric was very pleased with himself when he won by dragoning and kept everyone in the dark. If he were actually a third party with a win condition to collect hats, why would he make such a big deal out of it? He could just collect hats on his own recognizance. The fact that he cheerfully admitted to wanting to steal hats suggests that he regards it as town-beneficial.
- The flavor does not present the Hat Tyrant as an oppositional character. It almost seems to be helping moderate after web apparently dies. Instead, we are presented with three different versions of a win condition, none of which have to do with hats:
“Pick the most suspicious among you to be processed.”I don't have strong beliefs at this point about what these mean, but I think the lack of hats is worth listing.
“Pick the gnarliest dude among you to receive a free pizza!”
“Pick those responsible for this travesty and I will punish them.”I think that's all I can handle processing right now. Probably should go to bed.
- TricMagic is acting in every post like town TricMagic. I don't know how to elaborate on this without just vaguely gesturing at everything TricMagic has done and saying "You don't have to like it, but this is what town TricMagic looks like." And I already kind of did that.
- EuchreJack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469214#msg8469214) was the first one to theorize a hat-related victory condition, anyway, and EuchreJack's weird theories are always wrong. No, specifically, what I mean here is, if you think that Tric was claiming 3p, why didn't he actually claim 3p instead of just kind of awkwardly sitting halfway on? Someone else gave him the idea and, in town TricMagic fashion, he rolled with it.
The problem with meta reads is that when people grow or atypical role situations occur, they can become inaccurate. Both apply here.
EuchreJack:Toony: I was voting on my own to see how others responded, including voting Toaster as you & Jim seemed to suspect him. But you seem to have been doing well, and I love TMNT, so I guess I can sheep you for a bit.
"I was voting on my own by copying what you did"
At what point of the game are you going to stop sheeping? I don't mean pretending to not sheep; I mean actually stop.
[/Quote ]
Day 2, ideally.
Otherwise Tric is gonna have to roll out the "Jack is a Sheep" meme again.
EuchreJack:Day 2, ideally.Toony: I was voting on my own to see how others responded, including voting Toaster as you & Jim seemed to suspect him. But you seem to have been doing well, and I love TMNT, so I guess I can sheep you for a bit.
"I was voting on my own by copying what you did"
At what point of the game are you going to stop sheeping? I don't mean pretending to not sheep; I mean actually stop.
Otherwise Tric is gonna have to roll out the "Jack is a Sheep" meme again.
Fallacy:The problem with meta reads is that when people grow or atypical role situations occur, they can become inaccurate. Both apply here.
Regarding you or TricMagic?
Doover.
PFP.
xkcd comic
@Jim @Max
Aye of course you choose the day I take some me time to explode the thread.
I was trying to keep up yesterday and got… some way through the FoU/Tric thing before giving up because parsing Tric is hard enough when my brain is not leaking out of my ears and nose, so I will give the thread a going over and respond to things as I go.
PFPSo not only do you assume your own flaws aren't showing, but that my own flaws aren't showing. Which, fair given I've crashed and burned in previous times I've been mafia, but still.Fallacy:The problem with meta reads is that when people grow or atypical role situations occur, they can become inaccurate. Both apply here.
Regarding you or TricMagic?
Yes. Both.
Okay.You're pretty much ignoring my post without even a token effort to explain yourself Fallacy. Did you not see the post full of red text dissecting you? Your argument was flawed from the start, and you're just doubling down on it.
I read Tric as scum because of the peripheral interactions involving him, less so his own behavior.
I understand that you think Tric is town. If it turns out I’m wrong, then I guess I’m just not living up to your expectations of what a more experienced mafia player should be. I can live with that.
But surely you understand that peripheral interactions are allowed to influence reads.
You're pretty much ignoring my post without even a token effort to explain yourself Fallacy. Did you not see the post full of red text dissecting you? Your argument was flawed from the start, and you're just doubling down on it.I’m posting from phone, at work. I saw your post full of red text. I just can’t be arsed to deal with that much density until I’m home, in around 6 hours or so.
Is this comic your answer to my accusation?It’s my answer to Jim and Max. They’re having a hard time understanding how I’m not reading you in the same way they are, and for some reason reading you wrong must necessarily be malevolent?
I read Tric as scum because of the peripheral interactions involving him, less so his own behavior.
I understand that you think Tric is town. If it turns out I’m wrong, then I guess I’m just not living up to your expectations of what a more experienced mafia player should be. I can live with that.
But surely you understand that peripheral interactions are allowed to influence reads.
Do you trust Tric? I don’t trust Tric. Vibe check doesn’t pass. He reads like he knows what he’s doing. It’s like how I always play better when I’m scum.Voting Tric looks like a potentially reasonable option.
Basically, what we're trying to figure out here is if he's substantially varying from his town baseline. Given how much Tric projects, that's much easier done than for say, Toony. I'd be willing to vote Tric later if a reread of his posts makes me feel like he's scum. Or malevolent third party, though I'd prefer to vote for scum. Chasing third parties too far is a fallacy (rip me).
And Max doesn't feel particularly town, except that's exactly what I felt the last few times I tried to read him, too. There's always this level of detachment which is hard to parse things through.
It’s my answer to Jim and Max. They’re having a hard time understanding how I’m not reading you in the same way they are, and for some reason reading you wrong must necessarily be malevolent?
red text
For my money, I think EuchreJack has to go.
[1] Before you tried to sell your 'Tric is scum due to his interactions with other players' case you were hinting that TricMagic FEELS OFF compared to his normal style of play AKA you were making a meta read on TricMagic, one that was BAD and INCORRECT.
[2] Also you retreating into incompetence as a defense is not genuine since you felt confident enough to wax to A_Curious_Cat about mafia interactions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469099#msg8469099).
You are FAKE
FAKE
[3] Also I have repetitively said that I think TricMagic is Not Mafia, i.e. he is either town or third party, not town alone.It’s my answer to Jim and Max. They’re having a hard time understanding how I’m not reading you in the same way they are, and for some reason reading you wrong must necessarily be malevolent?
[4] YES
[1] I am allowed to feel things that are not what you feel. Are you calling me scummy for having an early game vibe check that doesn’t agree with your finished read?
I think this stuff with Tric, EJ, and Fallacy and others, will be useful when some of them flip, as we can get some associate reads out of it.Do you think EuchreJack is scum? Can you explain to me why, if so? I'm not seeing it. I was a little uncomfortable with him before, but he's been doing his buckshot townie thing since.
For my money, I think EuchreJack has to go.
I think I'm willing to believe any player could be mafia, besides Tric and Curious Cat. I'm most willing to vote FoU, Toaster, or Hector right now. I'm a bit mixed about Toaster at this point.You don’t read Knightwing as 100% town?
Early game vibe checks are undeveloped gut feel reads why are you reading so much into this[1] I am allowed to feel things that are not what you feel. Are you calling me scummy for having an early game vibe check that doesn’t agree with your finished read?
YES
Also because I feel like you're playing to your scum meta in some regards.
@FoU:
[1] Jim is more dangerous than Tric as a player, why vote Tric first? The best way you can convince me that Tric is mafia is if Jim actually is mafia too. [2] You said earlier you were going to inspect at night, why showboat an inspection like that?
[1] Because a Tric execution is more informative than a Jim execution. Also because my odds of pushing down a veteran on Day 1 are even worse than my odds of pushing down Tric.You could have stood a pretty good chance of getting Jim voted out if you hadn't gone down this weird garden path.
Jim isn’t really posting at the rate they normally do, which I think is a little weird. Any thoughts, Jim?
Jim: You and I have extremely different views of FoU. Why do you think FoU is scum? I doubt it's only FoU's stance on Tric, despite that being the only thing you said when you voted him.
It literally is only about his stance on TricMagic. FallacyofUrist has been around and should recognize that this is 100% unteamed TricMagic, yet he suspects him.
Why suspect TricMagic? Dunno. I think it's an easy read that town FallacyofUrist should easily be capable of.
FallacyofUrist is alwaysscum but he's also not very good at being scum, so I tend to think he reveals his agenda much more freely than other players would, which is what I think I'm seeing here.
...
Jim: Do you mind presenting your full case for us? this is all I can find:
. . .
And then your most recent two posts.
The problem I have here is that your entire basis is that "FoU's argument is bad". You don't include what the actual problem with the argument IS.
Please, take the extra steps to build a foundation for your house. What is the core, base, central, problem with FoU's case that makes FoU scum for having it? Stop skipping this step please.
FoU is scum because he thinks TricMagic is scum which is completely incompatible with my meta read on TricMagic. Moreover, if FallacyofUrist were genuinely town, I think he should have the same read about TricMagic that I do given that I think he's a capable enough player for it and he's played with TricMagic enough to recognize it.
There are also aspects of his scum play that I recognize, but these showed up after my initial vote on him. I elaborated a bit in my previous post.
I don't think I've been mysterious about my reasons why so I'm confused why there's a gap for you. I wasted too much time answering this befuddling question.
I think the only points of reference for TricMagic's non town game are Fallacy's BYOR whatever where he was a dragon (deez nutz), the one cult game I ran where he was the cult leader, and then notquitethere's Revolutions game. If he's been scum in other games I don't recall them.On what planet does a situation where you only have data from one perspective can anyone make a reasonable meta-read off of that data? let alone the near-infalible and everyone else would also agree with one that you're claiming you have. Don't bother trying to sell a single Revolutions game as enough either. One data point in a not-mafia-even-though-related game doesn't cut it and everyone knows it.
Fallacy's BYOR is a wash since he was a third party SK and did literally nothing SK-like. In the cult game I think I recall him blending into the background and from what I remember of Revolutions TricMagic dialed down the boisterousness, exuberance, personality, etc., a lot for that game.
This game's TricMagic does not match Revolutions or the cult game I ran, but it does match literally every game TricMagic is town in and when he was a dragon or otherwise not on a team, which is what people have been saying.
Here's what your argument boils down to:
1) Tricmagic is not only not maf, but is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
2) FoU is pushing a case against someone that is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
3) therefore FoU is scum.
Hm? No, of course not. I'm still convinced you're 3p. Are you not 3p?QuoteHere's what your argument boils down to:
1) Tricmagic is not only not maf, but is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
2) FoU is pushing a case against someone that is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
3) therefore FoU is scum.
So, you have your suspicions that I am Mafia, having reasoned and confirmed your suspicions?
And that's where your argument falls short. Jim does not believe me to be mafia, being either town or 3P. And so he bases his argument upon that. While it may be based upon a meta read... That in and of itself isn't enough to base a lynch on.Hm? No, of course not. I'm still convinced you're 3p. Are you not 3p?QuoteHere's what your argument boils down to:
1) Tricmagic is not only not maf, but is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
2) FoU is pushing a case against someone that is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
3) therefore FoU is scum.
So, you have your suspicions that I am Mafia, having reasoned and confirmed your suspicions?
[/quote]The relevant part from that post of comments. Fallacy is withdrawing into meta defenses and arguing against his own meta as being accurate in the present. But they shouldn't have made such an argument in the first place, as it was built up upon their own post specifically to lynch me, rather than being internally consistent in linking together a scumteam.QuoteJim Groovester's read doesn't seem right. It seems like it's accurately described, but his behavior is eerily defensive. His sole reason for voting me is that I voted TricMagic and didn't read him how Jim read him. Genuineness low. (How is it low? They've participated, should be readable. What makes the drop in Genuineness? IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469602#msg8469602).This is why having a lot of discussion is good, lies like these pop up. All you need to do is look for them. (You can say you made a mistake, but it's still a fault in your reasoning.)
A point of order. Toaster was voting me before all of this. It's an outright fabrication of events to fit a theme.)
So, crazy theory. I think the scumteam could realistically be TricMagic, Jim Groovester, and then one or both of hector13/notquitethere, depending on how the setup works out. If there's a bunch of third parties it'd be just one of them, if not it's both.The Scumteam positted is TricMagic/Jim, with either Hector or NQT. The latter is defined in the post I was breaking down as not having a response to my Hat Tyrant status, the former is built upon Jim protecting me. Which Max has also done. What was their argument... Th...
Jim and notquitethere's behavior seems to match the idea of 'distance the guy that'll drag us down like an anchor if we don't'. Reluctant to target him, but acknowledging that he's funky as hell. Hector is less suspicious, but still a possibility.
If this theory does hold water I'd scum-percentage these people as 100% scum (required) TricMagic, 85% scum Jim, 65% notquitethere, 40% scum hector.
The thing is though?
This makes TricMagic an ideal execution / vote. Based on this connection, it'll be extremely informative about the scumminess or lack thereof of a good few people. Nearly everyone has thoughts on Tric. We don't lose anything from the vote since the most likely outcomes are he's either third party or scum - most of us don't think he's town. (In conclusion, you've built your case around nothing, a complete lack of connections preluding a connection based upon that. But you've used Jim as your lynchpin for the team, who is trying to protect me. So your Fallacy isn't even internally consistent. There is no data to be gained because the internal reasoning is cracked, falling apart..)
Tric when competent / focused? Scum.You made this post a while ago Fallacy. It was funny.
Tric when incompetent / unfocused? Town.
This Tric is incompetent / focused.
Combine that with the heavy fixation on hats, part of the opening flavor (reminder that we submitted flavor fragments), and an awareness of alignments while making no active effort to scumhunt, while talking about its importance?
He’s probably third party. Outsider or SK I’m guessing. More town points to Toaster then.
Tric: so you are defending Jim before Jim has even responded to my accusation?I'm ripping apart the base of your argument before you can get it started. As you say others d... Well, Jim says everyone would see it, so he skips a step, no foundation. (In what you are saying, right?)
Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable.(Going by timing, I think there's a decent chance he was actually on lunch break and may be unavailable now.)
(his last activity updated multiple times since I posted. It's possible, but unlikely. There is a very good chance that he was able to read it on lunch break but doesn't have the time to respond until he's off work. there's no rush.)Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable.(Going by timing, I think there's a decent chance he was actually on lunch break and may be unavailable now.)
I read you message, disagreed with it, and asked a question. That and I don't really trust you, so.. I would rather see Fallacy go than Jim, cause I've spotted the lie in their post. Most everyone else has just skimmed past mine though...Please, show us the lies we've missed from each of you.
Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable. I just find it interesting that you're so extraordinarily quick to defend him. If you were town, wouldn't you want to let Jim respond first, just on the off-chance that you were being defended by scum? It's not like I'm attacking you in any way after all. Well, before now anyway. It is pretty fascinating how you're creating a link between the two of you like this.
(his last activity updated multiple times since I posted. It's possible, but unlikely. There is a very good chance that he was able to read it on lunch break but doesn't have the time to respond until he's off work. there's no rush.)Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable.(Going by timing, I think there's a decent chance he was actually on lunch break and may be unavailable now.)
Here's what your argument boils down to:
1) Tricmagic is not only not maf, but is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
2) FoU is pushing a case against someone that is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
3) therefore FoU is scum.
Fallacy's mistake, is in making his case upon me being Mafia/TP. Jim does not agree. Nor does he believe Fallacy would make that case as town. I think that is the foundation of his case against Fallacy. I respond because the foundation being missing is why you make your case against Jim.
You mostly learned that I can gift hats. Not much else. I'm still waiting for that Thunderdome Fallacy, have some Conviction in your case. As is(and Toaster said it better), voting me while making that lynch my guilt. But you built that vote around people who I don't have any connections with personally. I haven't really pnged them as much, so.Fallacy:Currently I don't really care about the number of people voting Tric? He's not going to go down, so what matters more is what I learned from the attempt.If TricMagic actually transitions into acting properly town, I'll probably unvote, or move back to Jim.
Is this an actual response to my unvote, which is me unvoting him because I think he's acting better? It doesn't sound like one.
Nearly certain Jim's going to launch a case on me as soon as he's next on the forum.
I do think my case jarred Tric into action, I'm just not sure by how much and whether that means he's town.Now the question is, which of these reads makes the least sense? Which is least genuine?This is why having a lot of discussion is good, lies like these pop up. All you need to do is look for them. (You can say you made a mistake, but it's still a fault in your reasoning.)
Fallacy Reading
Knightwing's read on Tric reeks of Knightwing. Genuineness high. What is Genuineness? You claim them to be correct in their read, yet vote me in the same post.
ToonyMan thinks Tric is being Tric. Genuineness high, but in all honesty I can't read Toony at all, generally speaking. You can't read Toony, but claim Genuineness from them. Being honest, I'm not really sure I can trust them if they're playing the long con. But that's fairly normal from me.
Fluffe is new. Genuineness high. Genuineness is new. Fluffe high. (Just words that can be swapped around. Rather than my opinion on them.)
EuchreJack... eh. Feels like he can do better. Genuineness N/A, will be reevaluated when he makes a proper effort to read him. (You claim Jack is a bad lynch, a trash read by me. Yet someone you can't trust and has yet to really be seen could be a possible Day 1 lynch. Why the Change of Heart?{I swear if that's actually your role I will laugh.})
Jim Groovester's read doesn't seem right. It seems like it's accurately described, but his behavior is eerily defensive. His sole reason for voting me is that I voted TricMagic and didn't read him how Jim read him. Genuineness low. (How is it low? They've participated, should be readable. What makes the drop in Genuineness? IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469602#msg8469602).
A point of order. Toaster was voting me before all of this. It's an outright fabrication of events to fit a theme.)Lenglon subscribes to hat tyrant theory. Genuineness moderate? Could do with more detail. (Why is Lenglon's Genuineness moderate? This is the point where we see who you don't trust. Or are setting up. In any case, please explain why.)There probably are ninjas here. I'm posting this anyway, cause breaking apart a post is a fairly effective method of mine. Don't poke the sleeping dragon and all that. As for my third party status, no comment for now cause all my energy was focused upon this post.
juicebox subscribes to hat tyrant theory. Genuineness high, but also subject to reevaluation. This deserves more detail. (An error? What makes the difference in Genuineness and why does Hat Tyrant make a lick of difference?
... Beyond which, in the same line you say reevalutation needed, which just feels... Tacky?)
Toaster thinks TricMagic is Org's reincarnation. Genuineness high. (No data for this read. No data for the reason.)
Egan's read is very Egany. Hat tyrant theory. Genuineness high. (At this point you've just stopped No reason beyond being Egany. And not even reevaluation.. Why are these three so different?)
A_Curious_Cat, aka Chilicarp, hasn't talked about Tric. Genuineness high, it's their first game, they get some slack. (And at this point it's all about the dragon in the room, not about connections and who's mafia or not.)
hector13... hm. Feels like he's not putting as much into reading Tric as he could be. Genuineness moderate-low. (And now you subscribe Genuineness to if people are even talking about me in the first place.)
notquitethere, as mentioned, seems to be avoiding making alignment based points about Tric. (Which is how you got the Mafia Team in the first place. This is completely backwards, as you'd be making the argument Mafia has just abandoned me. While in later posts you say Mafia doesn't ant to lose a vote. So wouldn't they attack you?)
So, crazy theory. I think the scumteam could realistically be TricMagic, Jim Groovester, and then one or both of hector13/notquitethere, depending on how the setup works out. If there's a bunch of third parties it'd be just one of them, if not it's both.
Jim and notquitethere's behavior seems to match the idea of 'distance the guy that'll drag us down like an anchor if we don't'. Reluctant to target him, but acknowledging that he's funky as hell. Hector is less suspicious, but still a possibility.
If this theory does hold water I'd scum-percentage these people as 100% scum (required) TricMagic, 85% scum Jim, 65% notquitethere, 40% scum hector.
The thing is though?
This makes TricMagic an ideal execution / vote. Based on this connection, it'll be extremely informative about the scumminess or lack thereof of a good few people. Nearly everyone has thoughts on Tric. We don't lose anything from the vote since the most likely outcomes are he's either third party or scum - most of us don't think he's town. (In conclusion, you've built your case around nothing, a complete lack of connections preluding a connection based upon that. But you've used Jim as your lynchpin for the team, who is trying to protect me. So your Fallacy isn't even internally consistent. There is no data to be gained because the internal reasoning is cracked, falling apart..)
It's, in other words, a safe, effective execution - perfect for Day 1.
I'm willing to sustain this vote for the remainder of the day unless a better target presents themselves. (So.. Fallacy. Who's the better target now that you're backing off?)
... Notes down a Fallacy/Lenglon scumteam. That's the last shred of good faith gone.
IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links.
A point of order. Toaster was voting me before all of this. It's an outright fabrication of events to fit a theme.)
Fallacy voted Jim first… after Jim voted Fallacy?I believe this means "first as in before voting Tric, thus obviating Fallacy's claim that Jim voted Fallacy for voting Tric". I haven't gone back to check if this is true because I do not care.
You realize that statement is self-contradictory, right?
Inline edit responses are very difficult to parse.THIS, however, is correct and worth caring about. Not just Tric, but everyone who does this is on notice. Just separate the quotes like, well, this if you have to.
IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links.What timeline are you talking about and why should I care about it? I don't care who voted whom in whatever order. Even if someone claimed one order and it actually was another, there's a reasonable chance that whoever said it wrong just mis-remembered. What's the point you're trying to make here?
A point of order. Toaster was voting me before all of this. It's an outright fabrication of events to fit a theme.)
I'm guessing you also are just choosing to ignore this cause it doesn't fit your worldview. You can't discard info simply because of it's source.
omg Lenglon dismissed me out of hand and thinks I'm not worth her time?!? scum!Tric, you have never communicated in good faith. Prove me wrong and answer the following: are you Town?
2) you don't even know what the word genuine means and are too lazy to look it up.This seems like an obviously stupid misunderstanding. Fallacy used the word "Genuineness" in a specific and obtuse way. Knowing what the word 'genuine' means is not the same as knowing what Fallacy means by "Genuineness". In fact, Tric clearly does know what "genuine" means since he goes on to assume that "Genuineness" is some kind of badly-specified trust measure.
3) you then go off into insane-fairyland based on your misunderstanding of genuine, which you already said you don't know what it means, and derive all kinds of garbage off of your obvious and trivial to avoid misunderstanding.
Max: okay, was there anything of note in Tric's response though? He did clearly misunderstand the term in use, and GIGO still applies.I disagree.
2) you don't even know what the word genuine means and are too lazy to look it up.This seems like an obviously stupid misunderstanding. Fallacy used the word "Genuineness" in a specific and obtuse way. Knowing what the word 'genuine' means is not the same as knowing what Fallacy means by "Genuineness". In fact, Tric clearly does know what "genuine" means since he goes on to assume that "Genuineness" is some kind of badly-specified trust measure.
3) you then go off into insane-fairyland based on your misunderstanding of genuine, which you already said you don't know what it means, and derive all kinds of garbage off of your obvious and trivial to avoid misunderstanding.
Ultimately, the point Tric was making there overlaps with the point I was making: Fallacy isn't actually talking about scumminess, he's just making up an emotion of "Genuineness", assigning it arbitrarily, and pretending like it matters.
Here’s the definition of genuine I was using in that post. ‘Does this person appear to be arguing in good faith?’ Less genuine would be ‘this person appears to be arguing in bad faith, that is, they are arguing to protect TricMagic because they have ulterior motives for doing so.’How do you determine this?
A combination of my perception of their meta and the context of the arguments they are making.Here’s the definition of genuine I was using in that post. ‘Does this person appear to be arguing in good faith?’ Less genuine would be ‘this person appears to be arguing in bad faith, that is, they are arguing to protect TricMagic because they have ulterior motives for doing so.’How do you determine this?
I can’t believe anyone is able to follow Tric’s arguments in the slightest.Someone should really do a recap at one point cause I am frankly uber confused at the entire argument.
A combination of my perception of their meta and the context of the arguments they are making.How do you square this claim to have done thorough analysis with your earlier statement about driving a bus on fire into hell?
I’m sure you’ll find some fault in that, but it’s literally what we’re all doing.
No, it’s not a gut feel check, if that’s what you were wondering.
You mostly learned that I can gift hats. Not much else. I'm still waiting for that Thunderdome Fallacy, have some Conviction in your case. As is(and Toaster said it better), voting me while making that lynch my guilt. But you built that vote around people who I don't have any connections with personally. I haven't really pnged them as much, so.Fallacy:Currently I don't really care about the number of people voting Tric? He's not going to go down, so what matters more is what I learned from the attempt.If TricMagic actually transitions into acting properly town, I'll probably unvote, or move back to Jim.
Is this an actual response to my unvote, which is me unvoting him because I think he's acting better? It doesn't sound like one.
Nearly certain Jim's going to launch a case on me as soon as he's next on the forum.
I do think my case jarred Tric into action, I'm just not sure by how much and whether that means he's town.
Now the question is, which of these reads makes the least sense? Which is least genuine?What is Genuineness? You claim them to be correct in their read, yet vote me in the same post.
Knightwing's read on Tric reeks of Knightwing. Genuineness high.
ToonyMan thinks Tric is being Tric. Genuineness high, but in all honesty I can't read Toony at all, generally speaking.You can't read Toony, but claim Genuineness from them. Being honest, I'm not really sure I can trust them if they're playing the long con. But that's fairly normal from me.
Fluffe is new. Genuineness high.Genuineness is new. Fluffe high. (Just words that can be swapped around. Rather than my opinion on them.)
EuchreJack... eh. Feels like he can do better. Genuineness N/A, will be reevaluated when he makes a proper effort to read him.(You claim Jack is a bad lynch, a trash read by me. Yet someone you can't trust and has yet to really be seen could be a possible Day 1 lynch. Why the Change of Heart?{I swear if that's actually your role I will laugh.})
Jim Groovester's read doesn't seem right. It seems like it's accurately described, but his behavior is eerily defensive. His sole reason for voting me is that I voted TricMagic and didn't read him how Jim read him. Genuineness low.(How is it low? They've participated, should be readable. What makes the drop in Genuineness? IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469602#msg8469602).
Lenglon subscribes to hat tyrant theory. Genuineness moderate? Could do with more detail.(Why is Lenglon's Genuineness moderate? This is the point where we see who you don't trust. Or are setting up. In any case, please explain why.)
juicebox subscribes to hat tyrant theory. Genuineness high, but also subject to reevaluation. This deserves more detail.(An error? What makes the difference in Genuineness and why does Hat Tyrant make a lick of difference?
Toaster thinks TricMagic is Org's reincarnation. Genuineness high.(No data for this read. No data for the reason.)
Egan's read is very Egany. Hat tyrant theory. Genuineness high.(At this point you've just stopped No reason beyond being Egany. And not even reevaluation.. Why are these three so different?)
A_Curious_Cat, aka Chilicarp, hasn't talked about Tric. Genuineness high, it's their first game, they get some slack.(And at this point it's all about the dragon in the room, not about connections and who's mafia or not.)
hector13... hm. Feels like he's not putting as much into reading Tric as he could be. Genuineness moderate-low.(And now you subscribe Genuineness to if people are even talking about me in the first place.)[/color]
notquitethere, as mentioned, seems to be avoiding making alignment based points about Tric.(Which is how you got the Mafia Team in the first place. This is completely backwards, as you'd be making the argument Mafia has just abandoned me. While in later posts you say Mafia doesn't ant to lose a vote. So wouldn't they attack you?)
](In conclusion, you've built your case around nothing, a complete lack of connections preluding a connection based upon that. But you've used Jim as your lynchpin for the team, who is trying to protect me. So your Fallacy isn't even internally consistent. There is no data to be gained because the internal reasoning is cracked, falling apart..)
So, crazy theory. I think the scumteam could realistically be TricMagic, Jim Groovester, and then one or both of hector13/notquitethere, depending on how the setup works out. If there's a bunch of third parties it'd be just one of them, if not it's both.
Jim and notquitethere's behavior seems to match the idea of 'distance the guy that'll drag us down like an anchor if we don't'. Reluctant to target him, but acknowledging that he's funky as hell. Hector is less suspicious, but still a possibility.
If this theory does hold water I'd scum-percentage these people as 100% scum (required) TricMagic, 85% scum Jim, 65% notquitethere, 40% scum hector.
The thing is though?
This makes TricMagic an ideal execution / vote. Based on this connection, it'll be extremely informative about the scumminess or lack thereof of a good few people. Nearly everyone has thoughts on Tric. We don't lose anything from the vote since the most likely outcomes are he's either third party or scum - most of us don't think he's town.
It's, in other words, a safe, effective execution - perfect for Day 1.(So.. Fallacy. Who's the better target now that you're backing off?)
I'm willing to sustain this vote for the remainder of the day unless a better target presents themselves.
There probably are ninjas here. I'm posting this anyway, cause breaking apart a post is a fairly effective method of mine. Don't poke the sleeping dragon and all that. As for my third party status, no comment for now cause all my energy was focused upon this post.
silly Max. You can be chaotic while still performing analysis.A combination of my perception of their meta and the context of the arguments they are making.How do you square this claim to have done thorough analysis with your earlier statement about driving a bus on fire into hell?
I’m sure you’ll find some fault in that, but it’s literally what we’re all doing.
No, it’s not a gut feel check, if that’s what you were wondering.
I can find the inspection quote when I'm at a computer, unless you said it as a joke? Why are you even questioning me about this? I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong about that.I am wrong.
Jim is voting me just because I don’t agree with him on Tric?I thought you were implying you were going to vote Jim today since you have an inspect for Tric, but that clearly isn't what you meant now that I re-read it.
This is especially aggravating because he simultaneously implies I’m competent enough to easily figure out Tric’s alignment but too incompetent to hide my scum strategies when I’m mafia.
That’s not a reasonable stance to take. I’m doing my first investigation on Tric, to try and validate my read or prove it wrong, but Jim Groovester gets my vote for that garbage.
I can’t believe anyone is able to follow Tric’s arguments in the slightest.Being able to actually follow Tric's arguments is a mafiatell of his.
Under this measurement, Jim is less genuine and Fluffe and Toony are more genuine.Then vote Jim for being disingenuous.
Being able to actually follow Tric's arguments is a mafiatell of his.Is it bad that I understand it, then?
I have no idea what he's saying either.
Thanks for answering what you meant by that word. (You type it enough times it stops sounding like a word, but eh.) The Meta is always changing though, isn't it? After all, you've already argued yours and mine can have shifted. Are you above applying that to others? (Compared to others applying it to you)A combination of my perception of their meta and the context of the arguments they are making.Here’s the definition of genuine I was using in that post. ‘Does this person appear to be arguing in good faith?’ Less genuine would be ‘this person appears to be arguing in bad faith, that is, they are arguing to protect TricMagic because they have ulterior motives for doing so.’How do you determine this?
I’m sure you’ll find some fault in that, but it’s literally what we’re all doing.
No, it’s not a gut feel check, if that’s what you were wondering.
Is it bad that I understand it, then?Well, you live in another dimension so...
Whether you're town or mafia FoU you're being incredibly stubborn. Do you want the satisfaction of being right about Tric that badly? I am extremely confident Tric isn't mafia, like 99.9% sure. It's probably a 50/50 chance he's third-party but that doesn't matter. If you really believe I'm being genuine here then voting Tric is not helpful, at all.
Enjoying the chaos?... FoU, isn't that similar to my stated reason for existence as mafia? As Mafia I'd be focusing on causing chaos as everything burns down around me, in this scenario at least. So why did you start it...I believe that you’re capable of restraining yourself.
ninja'd
If Jim hadn’t been so ridiculously active in your defense and support I never would have cottoned onto you. Thanks, Jim. You’re next.How do you feel about Lenglon?
Hector:Why you answerin’ questions for other people eh? Totes scum. /s
I should be voting so I guess I’ll back up my stuff on NQT.
*10 hours later*
notquitethere
How serious is this vote?
hector is similar, but I can reify it a little more because I was scum with hector not too long ago (Proc Gen... I want to say 4?), and he reminds me of his play then, in that he seems to be "managing town", so to speak. You know, trying to rhetorically cut off certain things and promote others, not too different from what I accused Fallacy of doing. In that game, we... this may not be the best thing to bring up at this immediate point in time... we goaded Fallacy into acting shady to set him up for the d1 lynch, and made NJW2000 the fall guy. This kind of managing is a strong suit of hector's, I think.
notquitethere
Mmmmmm, I don't feel this. I'll stack it on top of all my other misgivings about you.
I should, but I won't, check what your case on notquitethere is and see if I feel there's merit to it.
I think the only points of reference for TricMagic's non town game are Fallacy's BYOR whatever where he was a dragon (deez nutz), the one cult game I ran where he was the cult leader, and then notquitethere's Revolutions game. If he's been scum in other games I don't recall them.
Fallacy's BYOR is a wash since he was a third party SK and did literally nothing SK-like. In the cult game I think I recall him blending into the background and from what I remember of Revolutions TricMagic dialed down the boisterousness, exuberance, personality, etc., a lot for that game.
This game's TricMagic does not match Revolutions or the cult game I ran, but it does match literally every game TricMagic is town in and when he was a dragon or otherwise not on a team, which is what people have been saying.
I stopped closely reading midway through FallacyofUrist's and TricMagic's argument and I maintain I missed nothing of substance.
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum.
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum.
I think the game I'm being reminded of is Paranormal 27. I feel like there are a lot of similarities between that game and this game for how FallacyofUrist is playing.Okay Jim is the hivemind leader and he converted Max, the psychic warden. Got it.Wait, fuck, that actually makes sense.
Jim as Hivemind, uses the tech slot to get a Permanent Holoform Modulator. Uses that to show himself like a Kook would.
Converts Max, the psychic warden.
Gets Max's results, and uses the fact that I was roleblocked to fakeclaim a Snooper Bot.
Well, fuck.
I think scum FoU has a bad habit of doubling down on obviously stupid arguments.
Anyways, let's lynch FallacyofUrist. I think I have honestly seen this pattern of doubling down on a bad argument in a past game where he was scum.I believe you absolutely have, because I know I have.
Oh, I see you got an example, too. That was a great one.
EuchreJack:Day 2, ideally.Toony: I was voting on my own to see how others responded, including voting Toaster as you & Jim seemed to suspect him. But you seem to have been doing well, and I love TMNT, so I guess I can sheep you for a bit.
"I was voting on my own by copying what you did"
At what point of the game are you going to stop sheeping? I don't mean pretending to not sheep; I mean actually stop.
Otherwise Tric is gonna have to roll out the "Jack is a Sheep" meme again.
...
Jim: Do you mind presenting your full case for us? this is all I can find:
. . .
And then your most recent two posts.
The problem I have here is that your entire basis is that "FoU's argument is bad". You don't include what the actual problem with the argument IS.
Please, take the extra steps to build a foundation for your house. What is the core, base, central, problem with FoU's case that makes FoU scum for having it? Stop skipping this step please.
FoU is scum because he thinks TricMagic is scum which is completely incompatible with my meta read on TricMagic. Moreover, if FallacyofUrist were genuinely town, I think he should have the same read about TricMagic that I do given that I think he's a capable enough player for it and he's played with TricMagic enough to recognize it.
There are also aspects of his scum play that I recognize, but these showed up after my initial vote on him. I elaborated a bit in my previous post.
I don't think I've been mysterious about my reasons why so I'm confused why there's a gap for you. I wasted too much time answering this befuddling question.
You were in the game and know the context, wtf is this bullshit!?Not only that, but I'd just reread it only a day or two before. I just don't see your point.
Fallacy meta arguments fall real thin when you’re using them as self defense.
Doover.
PFP.
xkcd comic
@Jim @Max
You're not a stranger to mafia...
Oh, I remember winning with Tric with that dragon thing, that was nice. Anyway, I think with 15 players in a webadict game, it’s a pretty safe assumption to think there’s at least 1 3P.
FOU is acting kinda strange, but I suppose I could ascribe that to playstyle/personality differences and the stress of being on the chopping block.
Jim isn’t really posting at the rate they normally do, which I think is a little weird. Any thoughts, Jim?
Toaster feels pretentious, I don’t like
I know this will also feed your paranoia, but no, Jack does not seem normal.Will you give me some examples, at least? Tell me what you think is wrong with Jack. I crave to understand.
Asking people about, or clarification of, the reasons they're voting is... kinda basic in the game of mafia. If you think it's a waste of time we can get rid of you early so you can play Noita if you like?
Neither is EJ but you're allowing him to skirt by without doing anything.
Oh, yes, meta, sorry, carry on ::)
Like... I can get how maybe he doesn't do anything with the veteran players because they're practiced enough to be able to justify most things, but there's 3 or 4 newer players doing NOTHING that he can be poking at, so why isn't he, and why isn't that bothering you?
Asking people about, or clarification of, the reasons they're voting is... kinda basic in the game of mafia. If you think it's a waste of time we can get rid of you early so you can play Noita if you like?Neither is EJ but you're allowing him to skirt by without doing anything.
Oh, yes, meta, sorry, carry on ::)
Like... I can get how maybe he doesn't do anything with the veteran players because they're practiced enough to be able to justify most things, but there's 3 or 4 newer players doing NOTHING that he can be poking at, so why isn't he, and why isn't that bothering you?
Why are you griping at me
I think in the last day his only post as been “expect nothing ‘til D2” because he’s allowed to get away with it, and you’re one of the ones that allow it with said meta read.
Toony too, but he was less effusive about it and I’ve not been as bothered about him than you so gripe gripe gripe.
mafia is srs bznz gripe gripe gripemafia is panicky end of day 1 fire drills.
On this note. Is this a good game to actually skip the day 1 lynch? I'm a bit curious. and hat hungry, but eh.(No)
mafia is srs bznz gripe gripe gripe
Okay, if that’s the game you want to play, then fine.
If you really want to use the argument that I’m scum because I’m conforming to my mafia self, then.
A. Why is it too unlikely that I’ve personally grown since my last game?
B. Are there no other factors that could trigger a difference in behavior?
C. Is that really sufficient reason to attempt to execute me?
D. Please provide examples and quotes to use for comparison instead of appealing to your authority as an ‘expert in Fallacy’. Justify what you’re saying.
Funnily enough, your argument that I’m scum because I’m acting like scum me usually does is similar to Jim’s argument that Tric is town because he’s apparently within his town meta and needs no further explanation?
I don’t have an exact quote for that particular statement, I’m just going off my memory since I’m still posting from phone. Consider that and that alone uncertain until I dig up a quote.
How on earth are people reading Knightwing as strong town? He’s meh tier at best.
Fallacy want to hear from you specifically
Under this measurement, Jim is less genuine and Fluffe and Toony are more genuine.Then vote Jim for being disingenuous.
Why is Tric mafia because Jim has a dishonest opinion about Tric? It's POSSIBLE Tric is mafia if Jim is being dishonest. But if you truly believe Jim is faking his feelings and that assumption is correct then HE'S MAFIA. Jim is literally using the same logic to vote you by claiming your own motivations are fake. This feels like a clown show.
Did you know that I've been thinking a lot of players have been skating by because of this Fou/Tric thing sucking up all the air in the room, and included in that list of people was EuchreJack, but that I haven't had a chance to express these thoughts yet?
mafia is srs bznz gripe gripe gripemafia is panicky end of day 1 fire drills.
On this note. Is this a good game to actually skip the day 1 lynch? I'm a bit curious. and hat hungry, but eh.
ninjaweb
Asking people about, or clarification of, the reasons they're voting is... kinda basic in the game of mafia. If you think it's a waste of time we can get rid of you early so you can play Noita if you like?Neither is EJ but you're allowing him to skirt by without doing anything.
Oh, yes, meta, sorry, carry on ::)
Like... I can get how maybe he doesn't do anything with the veteran players because they're practiced enough to be able to justify most things, but there's 3 or 4 newer players doing NOTHING that he can be poking at, so why isn't he, and why isn't that bothering you?
Why are you griping at me
More of your meta reads.
I think in the last day his only post as been “expect nothing ‘til D2” because he’s allowed to get away with it, and you’re one of the ones that allow it with said meta read.
Toony too, but he was less effusive about it and I’ve not been as bothered about him than you so gripe gripe gripe.
Jim: Would you lay down your life for TricMagic?
Did you know that I've been thinking a lot of players have been skating by because of this Fou/Tric thing sucking up all the air in the room, and included in that list of people was EuchreJack, but that I haven't had a chance to express these thoughts yet?
That is completely valid but it is also a distraction from the fact that you and Tric are scum, and a way to prep to divert the execution off your scumbuddy
Why's he a bad choice?Jim: Would you lay down your life for TricMagic?
For what reason would I want to
Haven't I been clear that I think there's a strong possibility he's a third party?
He's a bad lynch and I'm not going to let it happen if I can help it, but that's about the extent of what I would be willing to do for TricMagic.
Thank you Mamobo.No, I'm going to Unvote.
Toony, still hold reason to vote Toaster?
Did you know that I've been thinking a lot of players have been skating by because of this Fou/Tric thing sucking up all the air in the room, and included in that list of people was EuchreJack, but that I haven't had a chance to express these thoughts yet?Sounds good to me.
But why is he a bad choice and not a neutral one?
You mostly learned that I can gift hats. Not much else. I'm still waiting for that Thunderdome Fallacy, have some Conviction in your case. As is(and Toaster said it better), voting me while making that lynch my guilt. But you built that vote around people who I don't have any connections with personally. I haven't really pnged them as much, so.
What is Genuineness? You claim them to be correct in their read, yet vote me in the same post.
(post-edit.) Genuineness: the quality of truly being what something is said to be; authenticity. Alternatively, Sincerity. The second sentence in this response is me question Fallacy on their definition of it. Since it's something that can be used as an argument against their case if taken at the usual definition.
You can't read Toony, but claim Genuineness from them. Being honest, I'm not really sure I can trust them if they're playing the long con. But that's fairly normal from me.When I say 'I can't read ToonyMan', I mean that I have extremely low confidence that any read I create on him will have any bearing in reality. Meaning that he's very good at concealing his intentions. My read is my read, but I have low confidence in the effectiveness of my read.
(post-edit.)This uses the same question as above. Fallacy claims Toony is either sincere or authentic in their posting, but claims they can't read them. This is the part that tells you his definition does not match the term? My response is basically this explanation. If with a bit extra on my feelings towards Toony.
Genuineness is new. Fluffe high. (Just words that can be swapped around. Rather than my opinion on them.)
(post-edit.) Max is very on point today. He's not using the definition normally. It's a buzzword.
(You claim Jack is a bad lynch, a trash read by me. Yet someone you can't trust and has yet to really be seen could be a possible Day 1 lynch. Why the Change of Heart?{I swear if that's actually your role I will laugh.})
(post-edit.) Fallacy has called my putting forth Jack as lynch a bad read. Or whatever it was. But he doesn't actually trust him. As a doublevoter, they are rather dangerous if left alive. But they can't be seen as backing Jack either. I'm not sure what is going on with Fallacy here. Well, I do... I'm doing the same thing of waiting to see, but what I've seen so far doesn't reassure me. Which is why I put them forward in the first place, see how FoU reacted, while not being someone I would mourn.
(How is it low? They've participated, should be readable. What makes the drop in Genuineness? IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469602#msg8469602).
A point of order. Toaster was voting me before all of this. It's an outright fabrication of events to fit a theme.)
This is why having a lot of discussion is good, lies like these pop up. All you need to do is look for them. (You can say you made a mistake, but it's still a fault in your reasoning.)
(post-edit) The vote order was Jim votes Fallacy, Fallacy votes Jim back. Not even remembering why you voted someone? Or twisting the events to make up a reason to suspect them. As Jim is part of his suggested scumteam, this is a major crack in his reasoning. As for Jim's defense of me, well. We've talked about that. As stated lower in this post, Fallacy is making his case based upon me being Mafia/Third Party, guilty before proven innocent.
Going to try to keep this brief by posting reads and thoughts about players rather than a gigantic wall of text with a million little quotes.
SUSPICIOUS
FallacyofUrist - his read on TricMagic is amongst the worst I've ever seen. I'd feel pretty confident hammering FallacyofUrist this early in the day if he were within range
PFP
Jim is voting me just because I don’t agree with him on Tric?
This is especially aggravating because he simultaneously implies I’m competent enough to easily figure out Tric’s alignment but too incompetent to hide my scum strategies when I’m mafia.
That’s not a reasonable stance to take. I’m doing my first investigation on Tric, to try and validate my read or prove it wrong, but Jim Groovester gets my vote for that garbage.
(Why is Lenglon's Genuineness moderate? This is the point where we see who you don't trust. Or are setting up. In any case, please explain why.)
(post-edit.) And here comes the Hat Tyrant posts. I actually had to go back to beginning of day to catch that lore piece when webadict posted the second one for us. Notably, there isn't anything here. And further posts in this line vary wildly in "Genuineness" reasonings.
(An error? What makes the difference in Genuineness and why does Hat Tyrant make a lick of difference?
... Beyond which, in the same line you say reevalutation needed, which just feels... Tacky?)
(post-edit.) Last was moderate, this one's high. Same text at the start, still wants detail. On top of reevaluation? You could take this to mean he's actually using the meaning, but such is why the internal logic isn't consistent within the same post. Mine isn't always much better.
(No data for this read. No data for the reason.)
(post-edit.)... I'll be honest, this one is just ridiculous. I put in a whole analysis on Toaster and their reasoning. You can see how as it goes down, we end up with what in any other read-list would be the reds. Notably, I'm excused from it.
(At this point you've just stopped No reason beyond being Egany. And not even reevaluation.. Why are these three so different?)
(post-edit.) So.. 4th in a row. 3rd I guess given Hat Tyrant. Note this isn't one that reevaluation is stated. And what even denotes an Egany read? This is where you know Genuineness is a buzzword.
(And at this point it's all about the dragon in the room, not about connections and who's mafia or not.)
(post-edit.) An important part to this one is the previous post. One can find it just by clicking the quote and looking up. He's made this by himself, by seperating people into groups based around reactions to me. It leads further down near the bottom where he makes it seem "reasonable" to lynch me for information it gives. Which only pops up if I'm Mafia, or Town. As Third Party, no info is gained at all. Yet this is seen as a good thing? sighs.
(And now you subscribe Genuineness to if people are even talking about me in the first place.)[/color]
(post-edit.) Statement says it all. If they aren't trying, they aren't townie.
Note the bit directly above with Cat. But most above this are High Genuineness. Which makes no sense as the post states.
(Which is how you got the Mafia Team in the first place. This is completely backwards, as you'd be making the argument Mafia has just abandoned me. While in later posts you say Mafia doesn't ant to lose a vote. So wouldn't they attack you?)
(post-edit) As below this bit, they've subscried to a Tric/Jim| Hector OR NQT team. With the primary.... Well,...
Tric/Jim is based upon protectiveness. Hector/NQT as the third is based upon not even bothering to protect. Do you see the issue here? Two lines of thought jammed together into one team read. That is not normal behavior or thought process.
(In conclusion, you've built your case around nothing, a complete lack of connections preluding a connection based upon that. But you've used Jim as your lynchpin for the team, who is trying to protect me. So your Fallacy isn't even internally consistent. There is no data to be gained because the internal reasoning is cracked, falling apart..)
(post-edit.) As the one directly above this. It's not a consistent reasoning on the scum team. One person is protecting me. (Which is false btw. Max has also expressed such in his own way.) But they also use people who are ignoring me/the hat tyrant debacle. If I'm Third Party, then scumminess can't really be found within town. If I'm town, then clearly the people protecting me are townie. If I'm mafia, well.. The FoU shows some town points, somehow. But as Mafia with FoU, this would be a prelude to trouble for town. Since the one... Well, might be getting a bit crazy myself given time constraints.
(So.. Fallacy. Who's the better target now that you're backing off?)
(post-edit.) Still waiting on FoU's answer to this. As well as what Genuineness means to them.
Is a serial killer a bad execution? You're eliminating a threat to the town. If I had Tric's alignment confirmed to me as SK I'd rate his execution as fair, as opposed to good (executing scum) or bad (executing town).But why is he a bad choice and not a neutral one?
Because I want to lynch scum and TricMagic isn't scum.
Shouldn't I be trying to actively lynch the players I suspect? Isn't that how I'm supposed to be playing mafia? I'm really baffled at where these questions are coming from or where they're going.
Wow that's convenient
Who's more trustworthy - Jim Groovester or hector13?hector13 no contest simply through avoiding most of the Tric argument and not making bizzare semi contradictory or confusing posts like Jim has done
Is a serial killer a bad execution? You're eliminating a threat to the town. If I had Tric's alignment confirmed to me as SK I'd rate his execution as fair, as opposed to good (executing scum) or bad (executing town).But why is he a bad choice and not a neutral one?
Because I want to lynch scum and TricMagic isn't scum.
Shouldn't I be trying to actively lynch the players I suspect? Isn't that how I'm supposed to be playing mafia? I'm really baffled at where these questions are coming from or where they're going.
On this note. Is this a good game to actually skip the day 1 lynch? I'm a bit curious. and hat hungry, but eh.Oh my god, no, I think I would quit. Didn't we learn that nolynch d1s lead to d1s all over again?
Spin:Okay.
Once you're next available, please respond to this.
Wow I don't have it in me to care about this tonight. Okay, fine, aliens probed you in the night causing you to personally grow into playing mafia worse.If you really want to use the argument that I’m scum because I’m conforming to my mafia self, then.
A. Why is it too unlikely that I’ve personally grown since my last game?
B. Are there no other factors that could trigger a difference in behavior?
C. Is that really sufficient reason to attempt to execute me?
D. Please provide examples and quotes to use for comparison instead of appealing to your authority as an ‘expert in Fallacy’. Justify what you’re saying.
Funnily enough, your argument that I’m scum because I’m acting like scum me usually does is similar to Jim’s argument that Tric is town because he’s apparently within his town meta and needs no further explanation?Well, Tric is within his town meta and needs no further explanation. If Tric is actually mafia here, or even a particularly hostile (like an SK) third-party, I would eat my aforementioned glass hat. This is a very common argument in mafia games around here and I think it is very silly of you to suggest that it is inappropriate (implicitly, scummy) that two players are both making it about two different other players. (I wrote this part before the earlier part, that's why it's politer.)
FoU is a mafia-ally. They're behaving like Webadict in FBYOR5. I'm done trying to reason with them at this point and it's a waste of time. They're wasting everyone's time and making everyone upset to cause trouble and help mafia. Maybe they are just mafia, but I think drawing this much attention to themselves is suicide and I don't really want to think about it anymore today. They probably realize Tric is very likely not to be mafia and that's why they specifically want to vote Tric out, because it's a merit to his team. I think this explains their shift in focus over the course of Day 1. [...]Jack, which players do you think are dodging attention maliciously?You know what? I think this is incredibly correct and insightful.
Jim and Max pushed a case against FoU involving problems with his case against Tric. You should ask for them to give you their own summaries of their cases, especially Jim, because I don't think they'd agree that my summary of their cases would be fair.Alrighty sure
PPE: Max, what you just said about nolynches doesn't seem right. I could have sworn that you've said that you hate night 0 because it makes games start on Day 2. Aren't those two statements directly contradictory? I do admit there's a chance that I'm mis-remembering who says that but...I definitely didn't say that. I actually like Night Zeros, perhaps uniquely here. I even used one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171530.msg7839746#msg7839746), man that was a long time ago. I admit it didn't work too well the time Fallacy tried it recently (I forget which, sorry) (Oh, right, here, you were in it too. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180146.0)), but I still like the concept. I like starting with more information.
Uh, sure, I guess. For me I think it was more like "I walked into this weird thing with previously-voted scumread Fallacy accusing Tric and Jim, two of my strongest townreads, so I intervened". Like I suggested last post, I don't even want to think about that ever again, though. This day one has lasted too long and I don't even remember how it started anymore.Jim and Max pushed a case against FoU involving problems with his case against Tric. You should ask for them to give you their own summaries of their cases, especially Jim, because I don't think they'd agree that my summary of their cases would be fair.Alrighty sure
@Jim
@Max
@FoU
@Tric
What's your summary of the argument so far? Would you say Lenglons is close to being right?
Thank you Mamobo.No, I'm going to Unvote.
Toony, still hold reason to vote Toaster?
Can mafia-allies be in this game? *checks* Looks like they can, okay.
FoU is a mafia-ally. They're behaving like Webadict in FBYOR5. I'm done trying to reason with them at this point and it's a waste of time. They're wasting everyone's time and making everyone upset to cause trouble and help mafia. Maybe they are just mafia, but I think drawing this much attention to themselves is suicide and I don't really want to think about it anymore today. They probably realize Tric is very likely not to be mafia and that's why they specifically want to vote Tric out, because it's a merit to his team. I think this explains their shift in focus over the course of Day 1.
This also makes me feel better about Jim.
Max: do you mind explaining what the important difference between a game with a Night 0 and a game with a nolynch D1 is?There may not actually be any reasoning behind it. In fact, the game I was referencing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181411.msg8457636#msg8457636) where we "learned" what I said also had a no-kill and it was my own fucking fault, too, I brought it on myself, on purpose. Don't worry, I get what I deserved in that game.
(I actually agree that we generally should lynch every day including D1, but I find your reasoning here odd.)
After reading back, I don't think FoU's case on Tric is really genuine.I take back what I said about suspecting you, you're my favorite townie now
I disagree. I don't think Jim bothers if he doesn't care. I'm seeing real frustration from him. Hector's distant approach makes him less trustworthy.Who's more trustworthy - Jim Groovester or hector13?hector13 no contest simply through avoiding most of the Tric argument and not making bizzare semi contradictory or confusing posts like Jim has done
Okay, after running through all the players in my head I was able to remember everyone eventually, but it took me the longest to remember notquitethere, so let's vote him out to make it easier on me.Jack should vote him.
Toony, NQT, and Fluffe: What are your arguments against Jack?He's not here. I know him and NQT have given reasons for being less around but I want to see fresh faces and thoughts that don't drain the soul from my body.
Unvote.
Would rather eliminate mafia today than Tric, reflecting on it.
Phew! Finally caught up again!
Looks like I don't see anything that would make me change my vote.
I also notice that neither Fallacy nor Tric has replied to the questions that I left for them in my previous post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469755;topicseen#msg8469755).
FallacyofUrist, why should I vote someone other than you? And why should that person be TricMagic (and not, say, Jim Groovester)?Because I'm voting for non-meta related reasons, and all Jim and Max seem to have is meta?
TricMagic, what is your alignment (and how can we be sure)?
general PSA: I am a fan of Lynch-All-Lurkers policy-votes on day 1. As a reminder I started playing mafia during the extend-spam phase of the forum, and saw many games die from inactivity and saw many scum wins through silence. I am 180% willing to swap off of a day 1 (specifically day 1) lynch case to a policy-vote.
Knightwing, followed by NQT and Jack. Knightwing is especially a problem because IIRC knightwing is normally highly active. NQT is next because although NQT normal meta is low-activity for most of D1, he does normally step it up as we near day end. By day's end I expect him to have analysis of D1 as a whole for us, and if it doesn't show then it'll be quite odd. Jack's last only because the other two stand out so much as problems, and I don't have a feel for Jack's meta so I don't know what standard to expect. All three are currently acceptable to me.general PSA: I am a fan of Lynch-All-Lurkers policy-votes on day 1. As a reminder I started playing mafia during the extend-spam phase of the forum, and saw many games die from inactivity and saw many scum wins through silence. I am 180% willing to swap off of a day 1 (specifically day 1) lynch case to a policy-vote.
Who's your current pick for said lurker lynch? Why?
PPE: Oh hey there's Curious_Cat.
Curious_Cat: Can you clarify your case on Fallacy, please?
Everybody makes fun of me for wanting to play Noita,You could always give an actual response to my case against you if you want instead of a blank dismissal and then going silent like you have.
but I haven't played any goddamn Noita since starting this game. :(
What even is Noita?Swedish roguelike wizard game with truly custom spells that is designed to be broken and teaches metaphors about greed through gameplay. It's a ton of fun and recently started getting updates again after the dev team went silent for a couple years.
What even is Noita?A roguelike where you are a squishy wizard / alchemist and make your own spells by arranging spells in wands, with way too many secrets and extreme difficulty
Yes, that.What even is Noita?Swedish roguelike wizard game with truly custom spells that is designed to be broken and teaches metaphors about greed through gameplay. It's a ton of fun and recently started getting updates again after the dev team went silent for a couple years.
Knightwing, followed by NQT and Jack. Knightwing is especially a problem because IIRC knightwing is normally highly active. NQT is next because although NQT normal meta is low-activity for most of D1, he does normally step it up as we near day end. By day's end I expect him to have analysis of D1 as a whole for us, and if it doesn't show then it'll be quite odd. Jack's last only because the other two stand out so much as problems, and I don't have a feel for Jack's meta so I don't know what standard to expect. All three are currently acceptable to me.general PSA: I am a fan of Lynch-All-Lurkers policy-votes on day 1. As a reminder I started playing mafia during the extend-spam phase of the forum, and saw many games die from inactivity and saw many scum wins through silence. I am 180% willing to swap off of a day 1 (specifically day 1) lynch case to a policy-vote.
Who's your current pick for said lurker lynch? Why?
No one's going to tell me what "managing town" means?You should ask Max and Jim specifically. They're the ones using it in their arguments and they wouldn't agree with my summary of it.
No one's going to tell me what "managing town" means?
But that's something players of all alignments do...No one's going to tell me what "managing town" means?
Not really a phrase I use, but the best example I can give is right here in thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469636#msg8469636) where Fallacy is proposing a plan and trying to get everyone to go along. At least in my opinion.
Can confirm.No one's going to tell me what "managing town" means?
Not really a phrase I use, but the best example I can give is right here in thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469636#msg8469636) where Fallacy is proposing a plan and trying to get everyone to go along. At least in my opinion.
NQT: Actually don't much like NQT so far. NQT loves to throw big walls of text with in depth arguments. Instead we see three (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469231#msg8469231) weak (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469496#msg8469496) votes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469814#msg8469814). Not happy with NQT's content at all.
Yeah, this case has exhausted its usefulness. Since there's no way it actually goes through unless Tric makes the scum slip of a lifetime, unvote.But that's something players of all alignments do...No one's going to tell me what "managing town" means?
Not really a phrase I use, but the best example I can give is right here in thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469636#msg8469636) where Fallacy is proposing a plan and trying to get everyone to go along. At least in my opinion.
FoU, Toaster said it's a phrase they don't use. You're arguing with people that agree with you that it's a nulltell.Oh.
Everybody makes fun of me for wanting to play Noita,I've never played Noita!
but I haven't played any goddamn Noita since starting this game. :(
unvote.It's a goddamn miracle.
No one's going to tell me what "managing town" means?
Not really a phrase I use, but the best example I can give is right here in thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469636#msg8469636) where Fallacy is proposing a plan and trying to get everyone to go along. At least in my opinion.
When I come back in an hour or two I better not be hammered. Anyone trying to hammer me before I can respond by sharing the information I referred to earlier, is scum.
I'm going to go play Dota
When I come back in an hour or two I better not be hammered. Anyone trying to hammer me before I can respond by sharing the information I referred to earlier, is scum.
Oi! Mamobo! Where we at?!
You were in the game and know the context, wtf is this bullshit!?Not only that, but I'd just reread it only a day or two before. I just don't see your point.
"Fallacy did X in Y context, so he wouldn't do it in Z context!"?
I also remember Fallacy acting in a way like this as scum with me in Kill Webadict Now. I see similarities to his play in Bring Three just a moment ago, too. Yes, he always has some kind of a reason, the point isn't the reason, the point is this is his standard toolbox.
As to your complaint about my complaint about you, part of your argument is reasonable: that I didn't give examples of you managing town, but part is not: that I was somehow being "oddly cautious" by answering a question from somebody else. If I hadn't been asked I probably wouldn't have brought it up at all today, since my focus is on Fallacy, plus you were absent by your own admission so I'd have given you the benefit of the doubt for a while anyway. It's not oddly cautious to frame it as an answer to a question when somebody else asked me the question entirely outside my own control. Unless you think I coordinated with Toaster to open the opportunity to shade you? That's actually fair, but I probably wouldn't have bothered doing that as scum, I don't think.
Back to the reasonable part: Well, I can't really speak to what end you'd be managing town toward yet, because I don't know your plans. I can see the patterns but I don't know where they point yet. I didn't have a list of examples ready because, like I've said before, that's not really how my brain works, but I looked back over your posts and I think I see signs of it here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469587#msg8469587), here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469449#msg8469449), and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469287#msg8469287), just for a start, not to mention in the post I'm responding to now.
Still, man, like you said, it's d1, I don't have any super strong scumreads yet. If someone wasn't dead set on voting out one of my strongest townreads I don't really know what I'd be doing. I'm not trying to set you up, and don't read too much into it. I'm more suspicious of you because I know you're a strong player.
You and Lenglon and Fallacy have all been harping on about "context" and I really don't get it. I don't think it's disingenuous to quote something "out of context" when the context is easily available? None of the quotes that I've seen have struck me as particularly misrepresentative at all. It feels insincere to an extent, although I don't actually think all of you are scum, so at least some of you probably mean it. I think I just don't get it. I may be biased in that I think Tric and Jim are both extremely townie, I guess, but you knew that already.
I've forgotten how awesome LurkerTracker is. Thank you Web for using it and Book for making it.There's literally another 19 hours. You're planning on being idle for 19 hours?
TIER UPDATE
Lenglon has participated pretty well and pursued her cases. Twice my gut has pinged scum on her, but nothing that stands to reread; pretty sure I'm just jumping at shadows. DOING WELL ENOUGH FOR D1 TIER.
Jimson's case on FoU stands up and makes sense. I've not seen anything specific from him that says scum. What I would like to see from him is his thoughts on non-FoU players. I don't see him having a second pick, I believe? TOWNISH BUT NEEDS TO DIVERSIFY HIS BONDS TIER.
Jimothy: Who's after FoU on your scumlist?
Let's not do END OF D1 VOTE SWAP MADNESS this game please. I probably can't make another substantive post D1, but I'll keep an eye out for questions.
I mean… ease of availability is subjective. Like I said above, I’m lazy, if folk can lay out their case with links and highlights so I have to put less effort into understanding it, cool beans. If I have to go to a post to understand context it’s not so cool beans. If I have to understand the context of a completely different game, that’s not happening.Hm. I can see how that would be a problem because I refer back to other games a lot.
There's literally another 19 hours. You're planning on being idle for 19 hours?
It's just that I'm fairly certain I'm going to die today, and if I do die I don't want to do it without sharing my information first.When I come back in an hour or two I better not be hammered. Anyone trying to hammer me before I can respond by sharing the information I referred to earlier, is scum.
You're at 4 out of 9. This is "blackmailing the town" territory.
It's just that I'm fairly certain I'm going to die today, and if I do die I don't want to do it without sharing my information first.When I come back in an hour or two I better not be hammered. Anyone trying to hammer me before I can respond by sharing the information I referred to earlier, is scum.
You're at 4 out of 9. This is "blackmailing the town" territory.
I'm going to go play Dota
When I come back in an hour or two I better not be hammered. Anyone trying to hammer me before I can respond by sharing the information I referred to earlier, is scum.
Oi! Fallacy! It's been two hours! Where's that info you promised!
Anyone trying to hammer me before I can respond by sharing the information I referred to earlier, is scum.Note the 'respond'. I mean here that if people try to finish the process of voting me out I want to share my information first.
Anyone trying to hammer me before I can respond by sharing the information I referred to earlier, is scum.Note the 'respond'. I mean here that if people try to finish the process of voting me out I want to share my information first.
There's not really any way to partially state it or hint at it, either.
I wish there was. It's all or nothing, and it's costly to reveal it too early, and this would be too early. It'd be beneficial to have shared it if I was dead, and it'd also have the effect at potentially sparing me execution.
alright, fair enough. I'll just have to wait then (I just hope you're not just trying to delay so that we run out of time to hammer you!).Well if the Day ends without a hammer, the player with the most votes on them is executed.
Jack, which players do you think are dodging attention maliciously?Damn, I can't sheep that!
Not Voting --3-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469356#msg8469356), juicebox* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469987#msg8469987), Knightwing64,
Jim
This was another thing raising my hackles.notquitethere
Mmmmmm, I don't feel this. I'll stack it on top of all my other misgivings about you.
I should, but I won't, check what your case on notquitethere is and see if I feel there's merit to it.
You know one thing that really ticks me off about mafia games? Having to read through Tric's posts, don't make me do it, guy.
Another thing that bothers me though, is disingeuousnessnessness.
You've trimmed out context for that vote, and also ignored the post I made nearby that one (this quoted post is #347, the one I refer to is #342) in which I laid out some questions for NQT to answer, one of which was less than serious, and should thus alert people to how serious the vote was.
That post was also 10 posts after post #332, in which I said I was not feeling up to playing mafia for the day for myriad reasons, or am I also allowed to get all hot and bothered the next time you say you'd prefer to play Noita than mafia?
lengthy complaint about meta reads
juicebox's case against FoU
Who's more trustworthy - Jim Groovester or hector13?hector13 no contest simply through avoiding most of the Tric argument and not making bizzare semi contradictory or confusing posts like Jim has done
Jim and Max pushed a case against FoU involving problems with his case against Tric. You should ask for them to give you their own summaries of their cases, especially Jim, because I don't think they'd agree that my summary of their cases would be fair.Alrighty sure
@Jim
@Max
@FoU
@Tric
What's your summary of the argument so far? Would you say Lenglons is close to being right?
PPE: Oh hey there's Curious_Cat.
Curious_Cat: Can you clarify your case on Fallacy, please?
I'm not sure I can explain it better than in the post I linked to above (the one where I asked Fallacy and Tric some questions), but I basically think that lynching either Fallacy or Tric would provide a lot of information for the town to go on and, if Fallacy turned out to be a mis-lynch, the repercussions for the town would be less that if Tric were mis-lynched.
Yeah, this case has exhausted its usefulness. Since there's no way it actually goes through unless Tric makes the scum slip of a lifetime, unvote.
Everybody makes fun of me for wanting to play Noita,You could always give an actual response to my case against you if you want instead of a blank dismissal and then going silent like you have.
but I haven't played any goddamn Noita since starting this game. :(
Jimothy: Who's after FoU on your scumlist?
So today the benefit of the big fight is that it's drawn up sides of support and negation.
Tric, Jim, Toaster vs Fallacy, Lenglon
Who else?
Quick thought: Tric claims his role is to give hats. Other players have indicated that hat ownership seems to be widespread. It seems like the hats Tric could give are already owned by others.
Tric is probably lying and his role actually takes hats.
Yeah, no. You don't get to dictate terms to me. I characterized your case perfectly accurately and you just don't like the fact that I called you out on what you were really doing. Please, try and sell me on how your case is something different from what I said. Here, i'll put it in step-by-step format for ya:Everybody makes fun of me for wanting to play Noita,You could always give an actual response to my case against you if you want instead of a blank dismissal and then going silent like you have.
but I haven't played any goddamn Noita since starting this game. :(
Summarize my case to me from my perspective and if you get it right we can talk. And no just quoting my posts.
I complained to you that you mischaracterized my case and you've done nothing about it. If we can't agree on what my case actually is then it doesn't matter how much I engage you about it since it will go nowhere.
There's not really any way to partially state it or hint at it, either.
I wish there was. It's all or nothing, and it's costly to reveal it too early, and this would be too early. It'd be beneficial to have shared it if I was dead, and it'd also have the effect at potentially sparing me execution.
Pugnacious Knightwing is a good step.
Skipping the rest of this. You said Jim was voting you because you voted me. But Jim voted you first, and then you voted Jim back.You mostly learned that I can gift hats. Not much else. I'm still waiting for that Thunderdome Fallacy, have some Conviction in your case. As is(and Toaster said it better), voting me while making that lynch my guilt. But you built that vote around people who I don't have any connections with personally. I haven't really pnged them as much, so.
The heck is 'pnged'?Quote(You claim Jack is a bad lynch, a trash read by me. Yet someone you can't trust and has yet to really be seen could be a possible Day 1 lynch. Why the Change of Heart?{I swear if that's actually your role I will laugh.})
(post-edit.) Fallacy has called my putting forth Jack as lynch a bad read. Or whatever it was. But he doesn't actually trust him. As a doublevoter, they are rather dangerous if left alive. But they can't be seen as backing Jack either. I'm not sure what is going on with Fallacy here. Well, I do... I'm doing the same thing of waiting to see, but what I've seen so far doesn't reassure me. Which is why I put them forward in the first place, see how FoU reacted, while not being someone I would mourn.
I don't understand your thought process here at all? It's a bit incoherent, sorry. If you'll elaborate I can give a proper response.Quote(How is it low? They've participated, should be readable. What makes the drop in Genuineness? IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469602#msg8469602).
A point of order. Toaster was voting me before all of this. It's an outright fabrication of events to fit a theme.)
This is why having a lot of discussion is good, lies like these pop up. All you need to do is look for them. (You can say you made a mistake, but it's still a fault in your reasoning.)
(post-edit) The vote order was Jim votes Fallacy, Fallacy votes Jim back. Not even remembering why you voted someone? Or twisting the events to make up a reason to suspect them. As Jim is part of his suggested scumteam, this is a major crack in his reasoning. As for Jim's defense of me, well. We've talked about that. As stated lower in this post, Fallacy is making his case based upon me being Mafia/Third Party, guilty before proven innocent.
Uh.Going to try to keep this brief by posting reads and thoughts about players rather than a gigantic wall of text with a million little quotes.
SUSPICIOUS
FallacyofUrist - his read on TricMagic is amongst the worst I've ever seen. I'd feel pretty confident hammering FallacyofUrist this early in the day if he were within rangePFP
Jim is voting me just because I don’t agree with him on Tric?
This is especially aggravating because he simultaneously implies I’m competent enough to easily figure out Tric’s alignment but too incompetent to hide my scum strategies when I’m mafia.
That’s not a reasonable stance to take. I’m doing my first investigation on Tric, to try and validate my read or prove it wrong, but Jim Groovester gets my vote for that garbage.
No, uh, Jim literally voted me first. Look at the dates of the posts. What the heck Tric.
From the looks of things I voted Maximum Spin, then Jim Groovester, then TricMagic.
Is a serial killer a bad execution? You're eliminating a threat to the town. If I had Tric's alignment confirmed to me as SK I'd rate his execution as fair, as opposed to good (executing scum) or bad (executing town).I can cut things out too, ya see? That post you said makes no sense? It was missing your part of the post where you said you Jim was voting you cause you voted me. So, where does lynching a neutral third party fall?
Jim and Max pushed a case against FoU involving problems with his case against Tric. You should ask for them to give you their own summaries of their cases, especially Jim, because I don't think they'd agree that my summary of their cases would be fair.Alrighty sure
@Jim
@Max
@FoU
@Tric
What's your summary of the argument so far? Would you say Lenglons is close to being right?
...oh, really quick:
Cat: You've stopped participating. Don't do that.
Well… I'm typing this reply for the third time. First time was aborted due to what I think are problems caused by the web browser on my main computer and the fact that bay12 forums.com doesn’t use HTTPS, and also problems that I think are being caused by the touchpad (insertion point moving around randomly, text being deleted randomly, and text being highlighted randomly). The second time was because the battery on my tablet ran out. Hopefully this time will be better…
In any case, I just barely got caught up (which is a task as I’m actually a bit of a slow reader). I’m currently leaning towards lynching FallacyofUrist. He’s made enough posts and interacted with enough people that how he “flips” should be quite informative. Of course, the same could be said about TricMagic, however I think (or at least hope; -I’d make investigating his alignment a top priority if I were a cop-) that he’s a town-allied 3rd party and that his powers would make him a great benefit to the town.
In any case, it’s way past my bedtime and I’d like to get some sleep.
FallacyofUrist, why should I vote someone other than you? And why should that person be TricMagic (and not, say, Jim Groovester)?
TricMagic, what is your alignment (and how can we be sure)?
Haha I put Toony in my would-eliminate list and now I'm starting to rub him the wrong way. Oh man I am so dying tonight if Toony is scum.Not quite yet not quite there. Still going through all the posts.
--
Tric, can you talk about another player for a bit, just to mix it up a bit.
If it actually looks like I'll be executed, I'll share the reason why I'm deviating from my own meta. It'll be helpful, but I'd rather not claim it earlier than that, because reasons.So... Chinese Fire Drill Hopes and Towns? (Let's please not go through that again.)
There's still a lot of room for the vote to swerve, at least. Probably onto Jack instead of Jim, unfortunately.
It's from the Latin pugnare, meaning to fight (compare pugilist, repugnant, impugn, pungent, all from the same roots). I'm saying you're vociferous, cantankerous, but you've got verve, moxy, fighting spirit.
You're somewhere between a yappy dog snapping at the ankles and a rampaging gorilla.
In a good way.
Alright, Day will be extended by 1 hour to 19:00 CDT (01:00 GMT)This is anti-British.
Haha I put Toony in my would-eliminate list and now I'm starting to rub him the wrong way. Oh man I am so dying tonight if Toony is scum.I probably kill Max tonight if I was mafia.
Quick thought: Tric claims his role is to give hats. Other players have indicated that hat ownership seems to be widespread. It seems like the hats Tric could give are already owned by others.Not reading the thread NQT. Fair given computer...
Tric is probably lying and his role actually takes hats.
Ppe: Jim, I could have said the exact same thing about Jack as you say in your last post
Tea goes in the harbor!Alright, Day will be extended by 1 hour to 19:00 CDT (01:00 GMT)This is anti-British.
No!!!!Tea goes in the harbor!Alright, Day will be extended by 1 hour to 19:00 CDT (01:00 GMT)This is anti-British.
A player like Fluffe strikes me as someone that needs to evidence or hard facts to make deductions they're confident about. I can see that angle. I think you're the same way NQT.True, I tend to be more analytical, but I am trying to listen to my instincts more and more.
Or like, how can you write a big write up about three players voting habits and then not realize I was voting someone?Yes, that's true, I did miss the Toaster vote. It wasn't a big write up though, it was a rapid fire squeeze-into-a-lunch kind of post.
I'm willing to give this more of a pass because you missed a ton of stuff as town in FBYOR5 and I value meta rather highly as a player, which Jim supports and Hector is dismissive of.I missed some dumb stuff in FBYOR5, but I figured most of the game out while many players weren't even looking. I was particularly exuberant in the pirate phase and that led to sloppy posting. I guess the similarity here is, when I'm moving quickly I'll sometimes miss things... but at least I'm moving. If I'm not even bothering, then that's when people have to worry.
At least two suspicious players are towncleared now. You are town confirmed with each other right?Correct. We know each others’ alignments. We’re both Town.
I’m mason partners with Egan_BW. My death will confirm that I’m a mason, thus confirming him as town.Your alignment can't be confirmed. You're mason partners that has to confirm your alignment. You see an issue? Roles aren't Alignment in this game. sigh.. Egan can probably be poked to confirm this, but given they're lurking anyway...
Tric is lying about me voting Jim first. He voted me first, as documented by the timings of the post I quoted.
Ugh. Parsing Tric is such a pain. I think I half misread that.
Sequence of events, as far as I recall
I vote Max
I vote Tric
Jim votes me
I vote Jim
I vote Tric
I unvote
The point is my vote on Jim wasn’t an OMGUS, it was a response to Jim chainsaw defending Tric.
Vote CountBetween this votecount and the next page, your vote was still on Max.
------------------------
-> juicebox --4-- EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469221#msg8469221), EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469221#msg8469221), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469231#msg8469231), Maximum Spin* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469346#msg8469346),
Lenglon --2-- Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469066#msg8469066), A_Curious_Cat* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469080#msg8469080),
Maximum Spin --2-- FallacyofUrist* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469322#msg8469322), Lenglon* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469388#msg8469388),
Egan_BW --1-- TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469318#msg8469318),
EuchreJack --1-- hector13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469287#msg8469287),
Toaster --1-- ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469379#msg8469379),
TricMagic --1-- Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469387#msg8469387),
A_Curious_Cat --0--
FallacyofUrist --0--
Fluffe9911 --0--
hector13 --0--
Jim Groovester --0--
Knightwing64 --0--
notquitethere --0--
ToonyMan --0--
No One --0--
Not Voting --4-- Egan_BW* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469356#msg8469356), Fluffe9911, juicebox, Knightwing64,
9 to Hammer. Day ends on April 20, 2023 at 18:00 Central Daylight Time (~67 hours remaining).
Got caught up again after watching a very large rocket blow up. Currently 99.99% convinced Fallacy is scum. So no reason to change my vote right now. Currently tired. Going to take a nap...If I was scum, why would I claim being part of a mason pair?
Got caught up again after watching a very large rocket blow up. Currently 99.99% convinced Fallacy is scum. So no reason to change my vote right now. Currently tired. Going to take a nap...Maybe, but that's two mafia dead to rights. Don't really think they can win from this position so I think I believe them.
And for fuck’s sakes, can a neutral party please verify the order of votes, please. I don’t trust my or Tric’s analysis at this point.I don't care. Nobody cares.
I’m mason partners with Egan_BW. My death will confirm that I’m a mason, thus confirming him as town.
I'm pretty sure I'm town.
[2] My role suggests that the changing of alignment is possible. Which is to say I know I'm town now, but am uncertain whether that will hold true for the whole game.
I'm pretty sure I'm town.[2] My role suggests that the changing of alignment is possible. Which is to say I know I'm town now, but am uncertain whether that will hold true for the whole game.
Do these statements make sense in the context of a mason claim?
'i'm pretty sure i'm town'
If you're a member of a mason pair wouldn't you know you're town? At least at the start of Day 1?
Wouldn't it be kind of bastardly if you knew that alignments could change and you were also a member of a mason pair? Wouldn't that make the point of being masons pretty dubious?
This is literally from the start of the game. I'll keep looking, but I mean, I should be working.
Matter of fact Lenglon, you voting me for lurking makes no sense. According to the tracker thing, I’ve posted more then fluffe, so unless you are basing me “lurking” based on the nine hour window of me (Surprise Surprise) SLEEPING, I don’t see your point.First off. it wasn't a 9-hour period. it was a 17-hour, 35 minute, and 49 second period between your last post and when I voted you, and you had said you'd be more active in said post. Keep your facts straight. Oh, and that post, it was again most of a day between that one and the one before it. You've essentially been a non-participant for 36 hours. of course you got called out for that.
RESPONDWow you're panicky. chill. sheesh. I'm allowed to have a moment of reprieve from insomnia. It's been hard getting any sleep the past couple weeks, now you're upset that I managed a 2-hour nap?
Also, I don’t agree with your opinion that everyone who doesn’t post a large amount is automatically a scummy lurker, it makes no sense. Even if you are of the belief they don’t contribute to town, that’s still a town member now dead for the crime of being less active then you would prefer.
Frankly, I find what you are doing to be the more scummy behavior.
I’m mason partners with Egan_BW. My death will confirm that I’m a mason, thus confirming him as town.Well now I get to feel vindicated in giving Egan more leeway than I really should regarding inactivity. I was simply going off of Egan's general activity-rate in other forum games that we play together (hint: it's about 1 post/day most of the time, sometimes 1post / 2days) and giving them extra time because of it even though mafia has a much higher activity standard than normal forum games.
.... Was Egan one of the others who said their alignment can't be investigated? Cause that is sus.No. That was FoU and Max
Yeah. In my case, I'm... kind of a glitch in reality. An edge case where the rules break down. So you can't look too closely at me or your face will melt, probably..... Was Egan one of the others who said their alignment can't be investigated? Cause that is sus.No. That was FoU and Max
Changing to FallacyofUrist, since that's now the same as voting Egan_BW for not participating.I'm sorry what?
I'll go verify that Egan_BW's brief effort at the start of Day 1 is better explainable in the context of a mason team, because from my recollection of the rest of Day 1 there is very little in terms of associative tells that tie you together with Egan_BW which would otherwise look scummy but are also consistent with a mason team.
Lenglon, I think, mentioned death millers before. I would have assumed these weren't on the table in a non-bastard game. If they are, I have deep concerns about the current gamestate, while if they aren't I think everything's fine.I mentioned them on the side when explaining why inspection results aren't 100% in a BYOR. I don't think we actually have any.
webadict, are death falsifiers on the table?
Okay this might be sleep inertia and distractedness talking, but if we’re going to eliminate a claimed Mason, would we not be better eliminating the less active one so the more active one is confirmed town?I'd honestly rather have a confirmed Egan than a confirmed Fallacy, provided Egan can actually start being present again.
I understood that. I just mean that you bringing them up is the reason they're on my mind.Lenglon, I think, mentioned death millers before. I would have assumed these weren't on the table in a non-bastard game. If they are, I have deep concerns about the current gamestate, while if they aren't I think everything's fine.I mentioned them on the side when explaining why inspection results aren't 100% in a BYOR. I don't think we actually have any.
webadict, are death falsifiers on the table?
Nah, I’m dead.Take me instead. I'm still waiting on that Thunderdome you promised. (I know you didn't, but better me than Jim right?)
But you know Jim, Jim, Jim
Is there any reason I shouldn’t take you down with me, if I’m going to die anyways?
webadict, are death falsifiers on the table?No. Flips may be hidden/REDACTED, but they will never be outlight lies.
Okay this might be sleep inertia and distractedness talking, but if we’re going to eliminate a claimed Mason, would we not be better eliminating the less active one so the more active one is confirmed town?
If they’re lying scum then it doesn’t necessarily (super power role game aside) matter which order they go in.
Nah, I’m dead.
But you know Jim, Jim, Jim
Is there any reason I shouldn’t take you down with me, if I’m going to die anyways?
Okay this might be sleep inertia and distractedness talking, but if we’re going to eliminate a claimed Mason, would we not be better eliminating the less active one so the more active one is confirmed town?
If they’re lying scum then it doesn’t necessarily (super power role game aside) matter which order they go in.
This doesn’t strike me as town logic, necessarily.Okay this might be sleep inertia and distractedness talking, but if we’re going to eliminate a claimed Mason, would we not be better eliminating the less active one so the more active one is confirmed town?I'd honestly rather have a confirmed Egan than a confirmed Fallacy, provided Egan can actually start being present again.
Like, if you absolutely have to execute one of us, it may as well be the person who… doesn’t seem to enjoy playing the game and has less energy to spend on it.Okay this might be sleep inertia and distractedness talking, but if we’re going to eliminate a claimed Mason, would we not be better eliminating the less active one so the more active one is confirmed town?
If they’re lying scum then it doesn’t necessarily (super power role game aside) matter which order they go in.
The thunderdome challenge I just issued aside, I'm okay with doing this.
I can't recall a game where killing the mason claim first waa the right move. I'd like to be wrong here, but it seems a ridiculously high risk move for a mafia Fallacy.Oh, obviously it’s wrong, but Jim and Max still seem pretty convinced I’m scum. I’ve also lost all faith in Jack.
I can't recall a game where killing the mason claim first waa the right move. I'd like to be wrong here, but it seems a ridiculously high risk move for a mafia Fallacy.I agree.
No. Flips may be hidden/REDACTED, but they will never be outlight lies.All right, in that case a town Fallacy should be taken to imply a town Egan and I guess the game is weirder than I thought, but I'm not so convinced that a scum Fallacy (which I obviously expect) will imply a scum Egan. He may easily have picked the player who's least likely to contradict it to tar.
This doesn’t strike me as town logic, necessarily.I genuinely think Egan is a better town player.
Changing to FallacyofUrist, since that's now the same as voting Egan_BW for not participating.Not okay with this.
EuchreJack. Since my vote shouldn't be on Lenglon at this point. No more sheep, only baa.Look FoU, a player that isn't tunneling you.
Town
Tric
Curious Cat
Townlite
Jim - good vibes
Max - I'm being optimistic here
juicebox - effortposts
Lenglon - extremely hyper active, good sign
Knightwing - mafia more important than school
Toaster - interested in finding scum, I see a light of passion
Null
Jack - cannot determine
NQT - starting to rub me the wrong way
Fluffe - meh
Egan - who
Suspicious
Hector - lots of words but I don't see any value, I expect a wall of text complaining in response
FoU - completely unreasonable
Haha I put Toony in my would-eliminate list and now I'm starting to rub him the wrong way. Oh man I am so dying tonight if Toony is scum.I probably kill Max tonight if I was mafia.
I'm a pretty emotion based detective. What I mean by that is I make my deductions based on feelings and intuition. Obviously I can form logical conclusions, but that's not how I like to catch scum. A player like Fluffe strikes me as someone that needs to evidence or hard facts to make deductions they're confident about. I can see that angle. I think you're the same way NQT.
I think that's why you made a post earlier comparing past BYORs with nonvoters and the statistics of who were scum. That part is fine. What bothers me, and drives me as a detective, is I don't get the feeling you're using your evidence to really find scum. That's what rubs me the wrong way. Maybe Egan is scum and your logic and vote are completely valid, but it's these actions that make me suspect you harder.
Or like, how can you write a big write up about three players voting habits and then not realize I was voting someone? I'm willing to give this more of a pass because you missed a ton of stuff as town in FBYOR5 and I value meta rather highly as a player, which Jim supports and Hector is dismissive of.
I haven't had the time or energy, but yes I'm Mason with Fal.
Tric, the voice of reasonI don't think Jim's reaction to you claiming mason is "Bullshit, fight me to the death" if he's mafia.
Is… is it Jack/Jim??????????
I think Jim would totally do that as mafia.(http://i.postimg.cc/XqrtPgZk/ec19175eaba927f3a6bbf2aa3328956b.jpg)
Damn, I was just about sure to vote Fallacy.Posing a read list is always a good idea as the day ends.
So….
what now?
Juicebox has been very low key. Actually rereading his earlier posts, they're not all bad. But he's got some self-consciousness about voting that's a red flag.
Damn, I was just about sure to vote Fallacy.
So….
what now?
Now can the conspiracy theory that I faked being masons in order to kill a townie, cease?Complaining about conspiracy theories in a game about conspiracy may not necessarily be scummy, but it's incredibly obnoxious.
I'm not sure how likely it is, but I'm vibing a scum team of Jim/Max/EJ/Tric, loosely in that order of how confident I am. Maybe Max first, and Tric only exists in the team because of Jim pushing woeful meta arguments about FoU and Tric, and Max supporting them for some as yet unknown reason, 'cause I cannot fathom a world in which he genuinely buys what Jim is selling here. Associative reads ftw.
Getting into the last 24 hours of the day so... I guess I'd be cool with a Jim/Max/EJ elimination.
Maybe reading too much into that unvote, but according to the last Mamobo (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8470296#msg8470296) update before this, Toony was the second of EJ’s two votes, the biggest wagon was FoU with six and seemed destined to be the one taking us to day end…At least as for my unvote, I'm not letting it sit like that to day end, but I wanted to see something.
I’m not a fan of your unvote either but it happened shortly after you made it, and you could actually mean what you say.Maybe reading too much into that unvote, but according to the last Mamobo (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8470296#msg8470296) update before this, Toony was the second of EJ’s two votes, the biggest wagon was FoU with six and seemed destined to be the one taking us to day end…At least as for my unvote, I'm not letting it sit like that to day end, but I wanted to see something.
Is it possible for you to tell us what you’re looking for or will it ruin it?Well, it's probable that I won't see it now, unless I count Egan showing up as it.
Changing to FallacyofUrist, since that's now the same as voting Egan_BW for not participating.Not okay with this.EuchreJack. Since my vote shouldn't be on Lenglon at this point. No more sheep, only baa.Look FoU, a player that isn't tunneling you.
Can anyone tell me what "tunneling" means?Obsessively suspecting one guy.
Also, can anyone tell me what it means to "thunderdome"?"Two players enter. One player leaves."
Fine, screw school.
Blood in the water
Toaster
Stop accusing me bread boy
Also, Lenglon, where did you get the idea I was highly active from? I’m not, you pulled that out of your magicians hat, a blantantly false illusion. Go and find evidence of me being hyperactive, I post when I can/have the time.
Damn, I was just about sure to vote Fallacy.
So….
what now?
Knightwing looks like town to me.
Is there any reason I shouldn’t take you down with me, if I’m going to die anyways?
Sadly I'm not even read up on the thread, so I can't make a case, but Fallacy is Confirmed for me and there's 3 hours, so EuchreJack.
The benefits didn’t outweigh the cost.
If it looked like there was no possible way to escape execution then I would be dead anyways and the cost would be moot. Fortunately I still had the option of prematurely claiming my masonry.
Still wish I could have saved that move for Day 3.
Saved claiming the masonry for Day 3
As I explained earlier, masons are more valuable if claimed later. This is because claimed masons are targeted by scum and the longer the game lasts, the fewer players there are, so the stronger the masons are in comparison.
I'm not really in favor of a Jack lynch. I voted Jack because I wanted him to be here and wanted him to vote someone (like NQT). I'm not going to cry over a Jack lynch, but I wasn't going to be home until now and I didn't want someone to get hammered while I was away. I still don't like your initial case against Jack but kind of forgot that impression when you backed off and voted NQT instead.I'm not sure how likely it is, but I'm vibing a scum team of Jim/Max/EJ/Tric, loosely in that order of how confident I am. Maybe Max first, and Tric only exists in the team because of Jim pushing woeful meta arguments about FoU and Tric, and Max supporting them for some as yet unknown reason, 'cause I cannot fathom a world in which he genuinely buys what Jim is selling here. Associative reads ftw.
Getting into the last 24 hours of the day so... I guess I'd be cool with a Jim/Max/EJ elimination.
Toony instead of Tric? That would be quite the team :|
Maybe reading too much into that unvote, but according to the last Mamobo (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8470296#msg8470296) update before this, Toony was the second of EJ’s two votes, the biggest wagon was FoU with six and seemed destined to be the one taking us to day end…
ToonyMan:See stuff like this chain of posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8470196#msg8470196).Knightwing looks like town to me.HOW??? I am flabbergasted that you (or anyone) read this guy as town.
Gonna eat dinner. In all honestly, I'll probably just vote whomever isn't me.Hector is emoting playfully (example using the :| face) which I think is a scumtell of his. I know earlier you said you didn't want to suspect him because he was the only one pressing you, but now the whole playerbase is pressing you Jack and I don't really like how easy that was after the FoU/Egan mason claims.
But give me two options, and I'll actually be able to think about it.
And since I have two votes, it's easier for me to have two options.
I do have a third ability, but not sure if worth claiming. It might explain some of my lousy play, or at least what I was planning.
For the record, that puts the following reasoning of voting me:Not really, no.
Knightwing: How dare you ask me to vote
Maximum Spin: #yolo
EuchreJack: I don't want to die
Does this look reasonable to you?
Uh Max, why didn't you join Toaster in voting Knightwing?I agree with ToonyMan, this Knightwing is town.
For the record, that puts the following reasoning of voting me:Not really.
Knightwing: How dare you ask me to vote
Maximum Spin: #yolo
EuchreJack: I don't want to die
Does this look reasonable to you?
@Toaster: What are your thoughts on juicebox? I'm game to vote them since they ain't me.
Maximum Spin: If I said I had something in my role that gave me strong indication you were scum, what would you say to that?
I'm pretty sure I'm dead in like 4 minutes, but juiceboxThere's another hour, dude.
@Toaster: What are your thoughts on juicebox? I'm game to vote them since they ain't me.
ToasterMaximum Spin: If I said I had something in my role that gave me strong indication you were scum, what would you say to that?
What do you mean by this?
Unvote Maximum Spin. Good answer. No guarantee of township but enough to move on.
@Toaster: What are your thoughts on juicebox? I'm game to vote them since they ain't me.
Middling. Juicebox was too quiet early, but his last group of posts was solid enough. I have no standing objections to him. I don't see much value in his lynch.ToasterMaximum Spin: If I said I had something in my role that gave me strong indication you were scum, what would you say to that?
What do you mean by this?
That was nothing but bait. I don't actually have anything like that in my role. I responded to his response as such:Unvote Maximum Spin. Good answer. No guarantee of township but enough to move on.
OK! Thanks! I'm gonna vote juicebox for now...
On second thought make that an unvote...
Toaster, Tric, Max.. Those three are Juicebox's votes for the day, no others. Max was an early one, then they vote toaster, then pile on me.
By NQT's reasoning, they aren't voting either. Juciebox's Shown Posts link. To check, it's just 1 and a bit pages of posts for the day, easy to read in ten minutes or less if skimming. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=115825)
On second thought make that an unvote...Why?
I do have an objection to juicebox.Me too. Don't favor juicebox lynch.
I don't see Max as scum giving a town-read to Knightwing, since he knows he still has cred as the Knightwing oracle.He would.
I'm pretty sure I'm dead in like 4 minutes, but juiceboxThere's another hour, dude.
But look, the insane panic is genuine town EuchreJack, you know? Like in Paranormal - SORRY HECTOR BUT YOU WERE IN THAT ONE - where he flipped out in exactly the same way for similar reasons of being a double-voter.
Wait did my post not go through?I'd suggest either opening the old tab with it. Or using the back button till you reach the editing page again.
I was going to say this, but Hector said it first.@Toaster: What are your thoughts on juicebox? I'm game to vote them since they ain't me.What happened to sheeping? Or do you not believe Toony can save you?
hector13: Any chance I could talk you into voting someone that ain't me?I see, why? Is it because of the same reasoning as before?
I'm asking because I'd rather not vote you, but I think mathematically that is my only option.
We can always swing onto you for comments like that hector. But the push on jack feels a bit funky as time ticks down. No protection from mafia, unless someone was planning on doing so but didn't.
hector13: Any chance I could talk you into voting someone that ain't me?
I'm asking because I'd rather not vote you, but I think mathematically that is my only option.
If you mean that I think hector13 is more likely to be unskilled town than scum, then yeah.I was going to say this, but Hector said it first.@Toaster: What are your thoughts on juicebox? I'm game to vote them since they ain't me.What happened to sheeping? Or do you not believe Toony can save you?
PPE:hector13: Any chance I could talk you into voting someone that ain't me?I see, why? Is it because of the same reasoning as before?
I'm asking because I'd rather not vote you, but I think mathematically that is my only option.
For a while it felt like they were lurking like they did last time I saw them as mafia. (If I remember right.)(juicebox does lurk as mafia, yes. But I don't want to vote him because I called him my favorite earlier.)
I was in that one and this time you're the one doing the misrepresenting. He was panicking because he had two votes and that because of that anyone with <2 vote gap leading the votes he kept saying he could tie the vote even though he was voting the person in the lead. That's the kind of irrational panic I might expect from EJ.I think that's similar, but I guess I don't have any argument why you should if you don't. I still don't think that's misrepresentation though, you knew the context I meant and I was talking to you specifically.
This is him panicking not to get eliminated, which is... basically anyone when they lead the vote.That might be fair. I don't really do that (Toony, at least, has seen me clutch it out a few times now and has commented on it), so I guess I might be misjudging whether scum Jack would.
I'm confused and time is running out!
https://media.giphy.com/media/blPpTGDhn6hEI/giphy.gif
For a while it felt like they were lurking like they did last time I saw them as mafia. (If I remember right.)(juicebox does lurk as mafia, yes. But I don't want to vote him because I called him my favorite earlier.)I was in that one and this time you're the one doing the misrepresenting. He was panicking because he had two votes and that because of that anyone with <2 vote gap leading the votes he kept saying he could tie the vote even though he was voting the person in the lead. That's the kind of irrational panic I might expect from EJ.I think that's similar, but I guess I don't have any argument why you should if you don't. I still don't think that's misrepresentation though, you knew the context I meant and I was talking to you specifically.QuoteThis is him panicking not to get eliminated, which is... basically anyone when they lead the vote.That might be fair. I don't really do that (Toony, at least, has seen me clutch it out a few times now and has commented on it), so I guess I might be misjudging whether scum Jack would.
I still think it matters that nobody's defending Jack, but now that I am, probably nobody else sees my point... which means that, ironically, my defending EuchreJack might make a bigger impact if I do this.
Who do you think Jack is with now, hector?
Also may I say as an OOC, I hate formatting posts on my phone.
I'll let you know if you still have that vote on him in 42 minutes.So to be clear, you are challenging me to a game of chicken?
Okay that's weird.
I'm comfortable with a Fallacy or Jack lynch here.
I don't buy the mason claim here, it's too easy for scum to make, and Egan's lack of activity doesn't sit right with me.
As for Jack, his play has been quite lazy and low effort, and he's really only picked it up now that he's in danger of being lynched. It's also telling that he's flailing around trying to start a wagon on anyone that's not him instead of making a case for why he shouldn't be lynched.
I'm putting my vote on EuchreJack
Also may I say as an OOC, I hate formatting posts on my phone.
Didn't see that Max switched, I don't want him at L-1 yetFuck you, vote me you chicken. Then you'll know who mafia is by the person that hammers me!
Calm down Cat, we have 52 minutes. Just give us a read list on who you trust is maybe town, and who you think isn't town.
I'll let you know if you still have that vote on him in 42 minutes.So to be clear, you are challenging me to a game of chicken?
I never lose those.
Okay that's weird.
I'm comfortable with a Fallacy or Jack lynch here.
I don't buy the mason claim here, it's too easy for scum to make, and Egan's lack of activity doesn't sit right with me.
As for Jack, his play has been quite lazy and low effort, and he's really only picked it up now that he's in danger of being lynched. It's also telling that he's flailing around trying to start a wagon on anyone that's not him instead of making a case for why he shouldn't be lynched.
I'm putting my vote on EuchreJack
Also may I say as an OOC, I hate formatting posts on my phone.Didn't see that Max switched, I don't want him at L-1 yetFuck you, vote me you chicken. Then you'll know who mafia is by the person that hammers me!
unvote
A dumb EuchreJack making proclamations that make no sense because he's paranoid is a town EuchreJack.
Calm down Cat, we have 52 minutes. Just give us a read list on who you trust is maybe town, and who you think isn't town.
That's the problem. I'm having trouble reading people. I think it's due to a lack of sleep, my slow reading, and the shear amount of text posted in the thread.
Currently, I've only got people in two groups: People I'm reluctant to lynch on D1 (you, Fallacy, and Egan), and people I'm not sure about!
Yet you're still voting for him...Are you fucking with me.
If not Jack, then who?I'm not too thrilled with you right now, if I'm being honest.
unvote
Hammer is 9, not 8. You made him L-2.
Who's gonna take the blame?Okay, there's still half an hour, settle the god damn down. Vote for hector, maybe.
Who's avoiding the blame?
Why would that be bad? There's only half an hour anyway. And frankly, even scum Jack never does that here.unvote
Hammer is 9, not 8. You made him L-2.
Which would let him hammer himself, which would be bad.
God I'm tempted, but no.unvote
Hammer is 9, not 8. You made him L-2.
Which would let him hammer himself, which would be bad.
unvote
Hammer is 9, not 8. You made him L-2.
Which would let him hammer himself, which would be bad.
Curious_Cat: Why did you vote Juicebox? I'm not letting this one go.
Is there any reason to let him?
I guess he could, but would he?
I failed to properly read the post from you that I quoted. I thought it was making a good case for Juicebox being scum, but saw that it was actually clearing someone else as I clicked the "post" button. If you do have a good case against juicebox, I'd be happy to consider it. As it is, Jack is almost certainly screwed no matter how I vote (unless one or more of Jim, Toony, Toaster, and/or Knightwing changed their votes (or maybe if juicebox voted himself)).If you think Jack is town, consider voting hector.
EuchreJack, are you the Alien Exterminator?
Yet you're still voting for him...Are you fucking with me.
We JUST went over the game of chicken thing.
Is this some stupid plan so that when Jack flips town you can say that I (and therefore, I assume, Jim) must be mafia because I voted to lynch someone I thought was town?
Ideally, everyone else would shift off him, and then I don't even have to because he won't be lynched anyway.
QuoteIf not Jack, then who?I'm not too thrilled with you right now, if I'm being honest.
If you mean that I think hector13 is more likely to be unskilled town than scum, then yeah.I appreciate the sick burn on Hector, but I wouldn't be bargaining with him. Don't ask him who you should vote, just vote.
They're also the only one on my wagon that is actually bothering to post. How many scum does that make on my wagon?
Probably one scum minimum in Lenglon & Fluffe. They're not posting, just sitting on my lynch all happy to see me die.This doesn't sound like mafia player.
ToonyMan, sell me on hector13. My gut says I don't like this lynch despite my misgivings about him during Day 1.I can't give a detailed case, there isn't enough time. I think he's the most suspicious player based on their votes and behavior. I'm not going to blame FoU for claiming late, but it didn't help when my top suspect became someone I didn't want to vote in a 15 player game.
Equally so, if you're scum, town probably wouldn't hammer you anyway, it's D1, and late day vote shenanigans can get a lot of info.Please no...
It's D1 my reads on everyone don't have to be perfect, so if you're more interested in a game of chicken than eliminating scum, I'll re-evaluate you N1 and D2. [...] It's better than leaving your vote on someone you think is town.You literally told me to do this.
I will trust in ToonyMan and vote hector13 and celebrate his wisdom should he be right and share his burden should he be wrong.wow thanks
This is shaping up to be a textbook day 1 CFD mislynch though. You all see it, right?Not to Curry Cat you, but I don't actually know this one.
This is shaping up to be a textbook day 1 CFD mislynch though. You all see it, right?
What if we bucked tradition and voted according to our inclinations prior to individuals with possibly malicious intent introducing information intended to avert the execution away from them?
This is shaping up to be a textbook day 1 CFD mislynch though. You all see it, right?
What if we bucked tradition and voted according to our inclinations prior to individuals with possibly malicious intent introducing information intended to avert the execution away from them?
This is shaping up to be a textbook day 1 CFD mislynch though. You all see it, right?In that case I'd be voting you, and nobody else would be. So you're just asking me to throw away my vote.
What if we bucked tradition and voted according to our inclinations prior to individuals with possibly malicious intent introducing information intended to avert the execution away from them?
This is shaping up to be a textbook day 1 CFD mislynch though. You all see it, right?
What if we bucked tradition and voted according to our inclinations prior to individuals with possibly malicious intent introducing information intended to avert the execution away from them?
What's CFD?
I'm also assuming you are referring to FoU and Egan, not Jack?
What's CFD?Chinese Fire Drill.
This is shaping up to be a textbook day 1 CFD mislynch though. You all see it, right?
What if we bucked tradition and voted according to our inclinations prior to individuals with possibly malicious intent introducing information intended to avert the execution away from them?
Eghhhhhhhhhh I slllliiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhtttttttllllllllllyyyyyyyy like Jack better than I did before based on his posts this afternoon.Feel it.
I think I'm gonna jump on the hector13 bandwagon. Hopefully it isn't careening over a cliff!
I will trust in ToonyMan and vote hector13 and celebrate his wisdom should he be right and share his burden should he be wrong.
Is there enough time to blame NQTFor Christ's sake, Jack.
I will trust in ToonyMan and vote hector13 and celebrate his wisdom should he be right and share his burden should he be wrong.
You're literally sheeping, now.
Would the Mason Chat like to explain why they're voting me, or are you too busy looking at kitten pictures?I think I'm gonna jump on the hector13 bandwagon. Hopefully it isn't careening over a cliff!
Interesting.
Why is hector less trustworthy than Jack? You're not giving any reasoning for this vote. It's almost like you don't want Jack to be executed, and are going about that the only way you can.I will trust in ToonyMan and vote hector13 and celebrate his wisdom should he be right and share his burden should he be wrong.
You're literally sheeping, now.
Is there enough time to kill Jim
I am going to have a tough decision tonight...(https://i.imgur.com/TBGQpl5.jpg)
At this point, because you're more scummy than hector isWould the Mason Chat like to explain why they're voting me, or are you too busy looking at kitten pictures?I think I'm gonna jump on the hector13 bandwagon. Hopefully it isn't careening over a cliff!
Interesting.
Why is hector less trustworthy than Jack? You're not giving any reasoning for this vote. It's almost like you don't want Jack to be executed, and are going about that the only way you can.I will trust in ToonyMan and vote hector13 and celebrate his wisdom should he be right and share his burden should he be wrong.
You're literally sheeping, now.
I think sheeping is becoming more socially acceptable.
Hector's vote record is weak. Thanks Web!
hector13
Jack. You goddamn weirdo. Oh, you moved back. Never mind.
One away. Come on, Tric. You're on the wagon of the people who wanted to lynch you now.
Would the Mason Chat like to explain why they're voting me, or are you too busy looking at kitten pictures?
Forum time is also four minutes slow FYI.Since when? Since why? I never knew this.
Role Name:
Desk Jockey
Alignment:
Town
Win Condition:
You win when all anti-Town factions have been eliminated and at least one Town Player is still alive.
Abilities:
(Auto) Bulletproof Jacket: Wow, no idea why you're keeping one of these around, but you're gonna be protected from one. Just kidding, you have an infinite supply in the closet! Whenever a Kill Action is performed on you, the Action does nothing instead, and the user Learns you are Kill Immune.
Tags: Auto, Learn, Immune
(Auto) Extra Vote: Who left this extra button here? Was it you? Of course it was, there’s a whole bunch in that cabinet! You have an additional vote during the Day Phase. If you Kill a Town Player, you Lose this Ability.
Tags: Auto, Vote
{AP3} (Single, Night) Shoot A Gun [target]: Again, not sure why this is just sitting here, but you should be careful, as there’s only a limited number of bullets. Just kidding, you have an infinite supply under your desk! You Kill the target.
Tags: Kill
{AP0} (Single, Swift, Night) Visor [target]: Block out the sun, and stop Bus and Redirection Actions from being used on the target. This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, Super, Immune
Role Name:
None
Alignment:
Town
Win Condition:
You win when all anti-Town factions have been eliminated and at least one Town Player is still alive.
Abilities:
(Innate) Oh? You Want To Troll Me? Instead Of Running A Game, You Want To Troll Me?: You can’t troll the shit out of me without becoming a moderator of your own. You have no Role nor Actions. Instead, you may select any Role that has ever existed in any other game (Copy the entire role.) You become that Role until you die. This Ability may only be used while alive, and a maximum of twice. Action Point costs and abilities will be adjusted, as needed.
Tags: Innate, Evolve
(Innate) Muda! Muda! Muda! Muda! Muda!: MudaMuda MudaMudaMudaMuda! You count as both Mafia and Non-Mafia for the sake of determining Action outcomes. Inspect Actions return no Alignment. You and REDACT have access to a Group Mafiakill.
Tags: Redacted, Innate, Recruit
(Innate) But It Was Me, Nee-ko: Oh boy, looks like your sister’s here. Say hi to REDACT in the Masonchat for me. Whenever you change alignments, REDACT changes to your alignment.
Tags: Redacted, Innate, Recruit
Role Name:
Yuno Gasai
Alignment:
Mafia
Win Condition:
You win when your team outnumbers or equals the remaining Players, and there are no ways to stop your team.
Abilities:
(Innate, Setup) Yandere: During the first Day, Choose a Player. That Player becomes your Sweetheart for all remaining Abilities. That Player can use a 0AP Mafiakill, even if they normally couldn’t use the Mafiakill. You join a Loverchat with your Sweetheart, if they are not allied with you. You win the Game regardless of each other's alignment so long as both of you are alive at the end of the Game.
Tags: Innate, Setup
(Auto) Time Loop: Someone is changing the game... You are Immune to other Time Abilities.
Tags: Auto, Time
(Auto) Death Game: Whenever your Sweetheart is the target of a Kill Action that did not originate from you, you Block it. If the Kill user is Mafia, they Learn this Ability. Whenever you are the last Player on your team, you Ascend To Godhood.
Tags: Auto, Protect
{1AP} (Night) Second Cellphone: You can always get a cellphone that looks the same. You fake your death and Revive. This does nothing if you are Killed.
Tags: Frame
{2AP} (2-Shot, Mafiakill, Night) Any Means Necessary [target]: You Kill the target. If they Revive or do not die, you Kill the target again. If this still does not Kill the target, you Superkill them. If they are still somehow alive, you remove them from the Game permanently.
Tags: Kill, Remove
{2AP} (Night) Pink Wig [target]: If the target is not Mafia, they gain temporary access to the Mafiakill the following Night. This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, GiftQuote(Info) Ascend To Godhood: Your Role becomes Deus Ex Machina. You can use an additional Mafiakill Action per Cycle. You become Action Immune. You gain 5 additional Action Points each Phase.
Role Name:
5D Chess with Multiverse Time Travel
Alignment:
Town
Win Condition:
You win when all anti-Town factions have been eliminated and at least one Town Player is still alive.
Abilities:
(Auto) Time Traveling Chessmaster: Whenever you submit an Action, you may also Choose a previous Phase. Reduce the AP cost by one (This only applies the first time you reduce the cost of each Action.) If you successfully use your Action, all Actions on that Day are modified. If this causes a Player to Revive from death, paradox-negating particles stop your Action, causing it to fail instead.
Tags: Auto, Time, Evolve
(Auto) Timely Promotion: You’re playing the long game. You gain a permanent additional Action Point each Night.
Tags: Auto, Evolve
{AP3} (Single, Night) Check [target]: You put the target in check, Blocking the Player’s lowest cost Action during the Night.
Tags: Block
{AP4} (Night) Aftermath Review [target]: You review the game at a later point, Learning what Action Tags the target used during this Phase.
Tags: Watch, Learn
{AP3} (2-Shot, Night) Forced Move [target] {phase}: You force the target to make a move in another previous Phase instead.
Tags: Time
{AP2} (3-Shot, Night) Sacrificial Pawn [target]: You throw a pawn in the way of the target. Any Kill Actions performed on the target do nothing instead.
Tags: Protect
{AP3} (Single, Night) Top Hat: How dapper! You gain an additional vote during the following Day Phase. This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, Vote
Role Name:
Big Hat Mafia
Alignment:
Town
Win Condition:
You win when all anti-Town factions have been eliminated and at least one Town Player is still alive.
(Info) Hatastrophe: All Players are carrying one of your Hats! This is, frankly, unacceptable, and a disgrace to you and the moderator. I’m sorry. Unfortunately, when people die, so does your Hat, so you’ll just have to steal them from the living!
Abilities:
(Innate) Hattitude: No one gets in the way of the Big Hat Mafia. For every 3 Hat Abilities you own, you gain an additional one (1) Action Point per Night Phase. For every 5 Hat Abilities you own, you may Choose a dead Player to take a Hat from.
{AP1} (Innate, Night) Big Hat [target]: You take a Hat from the target, assuming they have one (You know they ALL DO!) You remove the Hat from their Role and add it to your Role. This is one of your Hats.
Tags: Hat, Steal
{AP0} (Innate, Single, Night) Bequeath [target]: It is an honor to Receive a Hat from the Big Hat Mafia. You Give the target a Hat.
Tags: Gift
(Auto) Cat Ears: These clearly false cat ears give you a sense of predator nature. Track, Watch, and Inspect Actions do nothing to you instead. This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, Frame
{AP3} Eye Patch [target]: You’re not sure this counts as a Hat, but it makes you feel pirate-y! You take anything the target Receives. This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, Steal
{AP3} (Night, Mafiakill) Night Vision Goggles [target]: I guess it kinda counts as a Hat? You Kill the target. Redirection, Busses, and Protects do nothing. This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, Kill
Toony is mafia. I used an inspect. Said inspect was unredirectable and unbussable.Under the circumstances, I believe this a lot. ToonyMan.
Ill vote for ToonyMan cause I highly doubt anyones lying but what the hell made three seperate people decide he would be a good target for inspection/investigation or whatever?Great minds think alike.
At least that's one mafia down I guess.I targeted Hector and NQT last night. I tracked Hector and inspected NQT.
Toony I know who you targeted last night (among other things). Do you want to explain...
Toony is mafia. I used an inspect. Said inspect was unredirectable and unbussable.
Wasted an inspect on ToonyMan, trying to find Town. Came up as Mafia. Only have so many inspects left…I'm not mafia. I'm a little surprised by the amount of inspects (I have one as well), but I'm not surprised many players would want to inspect me as soon as possible.
I'm the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I have four turtles I can use. Michelangelo let's me bus two players. Donatello let's me learn something about a player, one of them is their alignment. Raphael can block a player. Leonardo can grant a player additional action points the following night. I also have a hat from Tric that let's me track a player. I can't use more than one turtle on N1.I have good reason to believe this too, which is frustrating.
I tracked Hector with the hat because I suspected them of being mafia. I didn't inspect them because I wanted to check a player I was less sure of. I'm still pretty confident Hector is mafia. Both FoU and Toaster are dead and they visited both (as well as Jim).
I inspected NQT because I found them next suspicious since they led cases on players like Jack or Egan who are town. My result was town so they are probably legit. I'm fairly confident my town result is correct, unlike Egan and Curious Cat's results which are false.
I'm the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I have four turtles I can use. Michelangelo let's me bus two players. Donatello let's me learn something about a player, one of them is their alignment. Raphael can block a player. Leonardo can grant a player additional action points the following night. I also have a hat from Tric that let's me track a player. I can't use more than one turtle on N1.But Egan said their inspect was unredirectable and unbusable so how could it be possible for them to be wrong? Are you saying that they are lying?
I tracked Hector with the hat because I suspected them of being mafia. I didn't inspect them because I wanted to check a player I was less sure of. I'm still pretty confident Hector is mafia. Both FoU and Toaster are dead and they visited both (as well as Jim).
I inspected NQT because I found them next suspicious since they led cases on players like Jack or Egan who are town. My result was town so they are probably legit. I'm fairly confident my town result is correct, unlike Egan and Curious Cat's results which are false.
PPE: you have good reason to believe what, Max?That you acted on those three and may have killed Fallacy and Toaster, since I protected Jim.
But Egan said their inspect was unredirectable and unbusable so how could it be possible for them to be wrong? Are you saying that they are lying?ToonyMan could be framed, there could be an ultra-super bus/redirect just like Lenglon's kill, or sometimes people just misread their powers and miss a loophole.
But Egan said their inspect was unredirectable and unbusable so how could it be possible for them to be wrong? Are you saying that they are lying?
I do believe there are multiple scum teams.It's very likely with four kills and a dead mafia.
But Egan said their inspect was unredirectable and unbusable so how could it be possible for them to be wrong? Are you saying that they are lying?Egan isn't lying. Mafia would have framed me last night or something. If there's multiple scum teams this is even more likely. I'm not a miller or I would have claimed D1. I expect to die today since no one is going to believe me, but I want to at least figure out all the kills.
I want to at least figure out all the kills.I'll start us off.
And I killed Tric with my and FoU's factional mafiakill.Okay.
I'm going to have to take a look back on Lenglon.(I didn't target Egan, no. I had to spend a special trick just to do as much as I did.)
Good job Max, but why Lenglon?
Toony, where you getting the Hector thing?
Hector visited Toaster, Jim, and FoU.
PPE: you have good reason to believe what, Max?That you acted on those three and may have killed Fallacy and Toaster, since I protected Jim.
Fallacy's ability says he has a mason chat and it says Egan will change alignments when he changes... but it doesn't actually say that Egan's initial alignment is confirmed. Am I missing it? Unless we're to take it being called "mason chat" as confirmation?
Egan, what role did Fallacy choose to embody?
Anyone want to claim being Lenglon's lover?
Everyone, did you target Egan last night? Be honest, this is important.I support this. I'll make a list, perhaps.
Maximum Spin: did not.
webadict, are death falsifiers on the table?No. Flips may be hidden/REDACTED, but they will never be outlight lies.
I think Hector triple-killing is probably a bit far-fetched, unless he has a truly massive drawback.I think I agree.
Everyone, did you target Egan last night? Be honest, this is important.
I mean, it’s all WIFOM, but how am I meant to kill three people in one night, also giving one of them a vote (without knowing whether or not Egan gets FoU’s night results) and taking one from another? ‘Cause I can tell you I did something else to Jim too.Let me get this straight:
Why did Max protect Jim over claimed Masons?I'm shocked one of the masons even died. Certain players *cough* Jim *cough* were giving them a ton of shit and Jack threw shade on them at end of D1.
Maximum Spin: did not.
NQT: did not.
Cat: did not.
Anything Learned at Night can be false/true/partially true.webadict, are death falsifiers on the table?No. Flips may be hidden/REDACTED, but they will never be outlight lies.
What about inspection results? Can these be “outright lies”?
Also why did Max chicken out at the end of D1?I also found it weirdly emotional for Max.
So that leaves 2 scum teams out of 7 players if I can count right. We’ve already caught 1, so… if there’s 2 per team there’s 3 left, otherwise half the town is scum lol.Who do you think is the mafia with Lenglon?
I targeted Hector and NQT.QuoteMaximum Spin: did not.
NQT: did not.
Cat: did not.
I targeted Hector and NQT.QuoteMaximum Spin: did not.
NQT: did not.
Cat: did not.
Also note that Fallacy was protected from kills by Leng's Death Game, so we'd be talking about hector having a triple kill which pierces protects, right?You confirmed that Hector did give FoU an additional vote right?
...I targeted Hector and NQT.QuoteMaximum Spin: did not.
NQT: did not.
Cat: did not.
Exclusively, yes?
Anything Learned at Night can be false/true/partially true.webadict, are death falsifiers on the table?No. Flips may be hidden/REDACTED, but they will never be outlight lies.
What about inspection results? Can these be “outright lies”?
Whenever you are the last Player on your team, you Ascend To Godhood.
Lenglon blocked all kills except the mafia, and if L was alive and Fallacy dead, this would happen:QuoteWhenever you are the last Player on your team, you Ascend To Godhood.
So Lenglon is obviously Fallacy's killer
Maximum Spin: did not.
NQT: did not.
Cat: did not.
Toonyman: did not.
Why are people certain that there are two scum teams? There might be (and would explain why a scum Toony has an inspect) but is there a compelling reason? We know town players can and do have kill powers in this setup.Yeah I was thinking about saying something about that but didnt cause I was afraid I missed something obvious but where was it stated mafia had two scum teams? Is it just a hunch? @hector
Why are people certain that there are two scum teams? There might be (and would explain why a scum Toony has an inspect) but is there a compelling reason? We know town players can and do have kill powers in this setup.
She claimed she would Pink Wig where exactly? To Fallacy?Loverschat. I was not privvy but stuff was relayed to me.
Lenglon killed Fallacy to ascend to Godhood, right?They ascended all right.
Any reason an inspect might provide a wrong result on you, Toony?I think mafia framed me. It wouldn't have been Hector I can say at least.
Hector thinks there are 4 (now 3) mafia in total split between 2 teams but this feels... wrong? Cause this would mean at minimum assuming Max is town mafia killed 3 people at night which feels like alot for such a small mafia team... anyway my main point of thought right now is I think that it may genuinely be a possibility that half the players left are mafia of some variety which is uh quiet a scary thought.It could be 2 and 2 mafia if there's third party killers. Max isn't cleared town because of the Lenglon kill for this setup.
Why are people certain that there are two scum teams? There might be (and would explain why a scum Toony has an inspect) but is there a compelling reason? We know town players can and do have kill powers in this setup.It's not clear. This is based on the amount of kills, specifically unclaimed kills.
Or this.
Why are people certain that there are two scum teams? There might be (and would explain why a scum Toony has an inspect) but is there a compelling reason? We know town players can and do have kill powers in this setup.
Leng's mafia team seems to have thought it likely.I don't remember if we were told a reason why.
...I think it's because she knew herself to be member of mafia team b.
Quote from: did you visit Egan?Maximum Spin: did not.
NQT: did not.
Cat: did not.
Toonyman: did not.
hector13, Fluffe9911, juicebox, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64: Answer question?I did not visit ya
Bad Pile:(
Fluffe - sorry
I think Curious Cat is possible in place of you, but their naive innocence is really convincing.Bad Pile:(
Fluffe - sorry
I mean, it’s all WIFOM, but how am I meant to kill three people in one night, also giving one of them a vote (without knowing whether or not Egan gets FoU’s night results) and taking one from another? ‘Cause I can tell you I did something else to Jim too.Let me get this straight:
1. You took Toaster's vote and gave it to FoU.
2. You did something mysterious to Jim.
So that leaves 2 scum teams out of 7 players if I can count right. We’ve already caught 1, so… if there’s 2 per team there’s 3 left, otherwise half the town is scum lol.Who do you think is the mafia with Lenglon?
This is very interesting. To answer Max's question, I used several shotted abilities. I also did target Egan last night. I targeted Fluffe and Toonyman as well. I need some clarification from Web before I claim any results though
Ok so we have 4 kills in total 3 town 1 mafia
Max claims they killed the mafia while we are uncertain who killed the 3 town although some people think hector somehow killed all three of them which I find VERY unlikely (although as I was writing this now NQT thinks Lenglon killed Fallacy)
Hector thinks there are 4 (now 3) mafia in total split between 2 teams but this feels... wrong? Cause this would mean at minimum assuming Max is town mafia killed 3 people at night which feels like alot for such a small mafia team... anyway my main point of thought right now is I think that it may genuinely be a possibility that half the players left are mafia of some variety which is uh quiet a scary thought.
Lenglon probably used By Any Means Necessary to make sure the kill went through, and might have second cell phoned (which did nothing because she died for real).
Ppe: Egan, okay, that's interesting...
--
Why are people certain that there are two scum teams? There might be (and would explain why a scum Toony has an inspect) but is there a compelling reason? We know town players can and do have kill powers in this setup.
Why are people certain that there are two scum teams? There might be (and would explain why a scum Toony has an inspect) but is there a compelling reason? We know town players can and do have kill powers in this setup.
Leng's mafia team seems to have thought it likely.I don't remember if we were told a reason why.
...I think it's because she knew herself to be member of mafia team b.
Quote from: did you visit Egan?Maximum Spin: did not.
NQT: did not.
Cat: did not.
Toonyman: did not.
hector13, Fluffe9911, juicebox, Jim Groovester, Knightwing64: Answer question?
"mafia team b" is the phrasing Fal gave me. There may have been some game of telephone going on because I was hearing the goings on in loverschat from masonchat and fal was hearing the goings on of scumchat from loverschat.
To paraphrase "leng says she's in mafia team b."
"mafia team b" is the phrasing Fal gave me. There may have been some game of telephone going on because I was hearing the goings on in loverschat from masonchat and fal was hearing the goings on of scumchat from loverschat.Why didn't you or FoU share that with us on D1?
To paraphrase "leng says she's in mafia team b."
Question: for mafia teams A and B, will they want to focus on taking down town first right now, or the other mafia?Mafia are going to want to kill the other mafia first.
This is probably why Lenglon died, which implicates Max. Although Max claimed very openly."mafia team b" is the phrasing Fal gave me. There may have been some game of telephone going on because I was hearing the goings on in loverschat from masonchat and fal was hearing the goings on of scumchat from loverschat.
To paraphrase "leng says she's in mafia team b."
I'll also point out that Lenglon mentioned there being two mafia teams here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181553.msg8469631#msg8469631).
It seemed to be in jest at the time, but maybe it was also a softclaim?
Because we could have both won along with Lenglon, or used Fallacy's godlike role to become scum opportunistically. Was better to hedge our bets.You were effectively mafia-allies on D1 then by behaving that way. I count that as a correct read on my part.
I'm telling you now because we obviously can't win like that with leng and fal both dead.
(Innate, Setup) Yandere: During the first Day, Choose a Player. That Player becomes your Sweetheart for all remaining Abilities. That Player can use a 0AP Mafiakill, even if they normally couldn’t use the Mafiakill. You join a Loverchat with your Sweetheart, if they are not allied with you. You win the Game regardless of each other's alignment so long as both of you are alive at the end of the Game.
Tags: Innate, Setup
(Innate) But It Was Me, Nee-ko: Oh boy, looks like your sister’s here. Say hi to REDACT in the Masonchat for me. Whenever you change alignments, REDACT changes to your alignment.
Tags: Redacted, Innate, Recruit
This is very interesting. To answer Max's question, I used several shotted abilities. I also did target Egan last night. I targeted Fluffe and Toonyman as well. I need some clarification from Web before I claim any results though
Hmm, that seems like the relevant bit.
Maybe I should have held off mentioning I knew that leng visited me in case I could catch juicebox in a lie. Eh, probably doesn't matter.
In addition to learning who tric and toony visited, I also know exactly who visited me. These were FoU, Tric, Lenglon, and juicebox. Naturally, 3/4 of those are dead.
I know exactly what FoU and Tric did, and surmise that Leng used pink wig on me without any real effect. juicebox did something strange, particularly considering that they weren't in the game at the time they did it. Not sure what will come of it, but I am optimistic!
I was told that I must Choose an ability to give to an unknown player, along with the rest of my night results. That seems pretty different from what you're claiming it does.
No, I'm claiming my own action. I'm pretty sure I know what my own abilities doBut where in the world are you?
No, I'm claiming my own action. I'm pretty sure I know what my own abilities doBut where in the world are you?
That's for me to know and you to find out. I'm guessing use you used a day action on me at some point then?Nah.
Everyone, did you target Egan last night? Be honest, this is important.
Because we could have both won along with Lenglon, or used Fallacy's godlike role to become scum opportunistically. Was better to hedge our bets.
I'm telling you now because we obviously can't win like that with leng and fal both dead.
It's always been one of my abilities. If it didn't show up in your inspection, then it was probably incompleteWrong, false. I didn't use an inspection. What I learn is specifically phrased as the entire role. I even know the extra from Fallacy's choice of role (it's just Light Shenanigans like Egan said, I guess I probably should have confirmed that actually) that wasn't in his flip.
Also, there might be two mafia teams? Or Lenglon was bullshitting, but I don’t think so.I think there are.
he killed me because I accidently gave away the presence of two scumteams.I respect that but I didn't even notice you'd said that and I hadn't realized the four-squared thing yet. I genuinely just thought you were being disingenuous.
Egan. I come bearing a message from beyond the grave. Listen well, because I’m going to bed after this.Wonderful. Nobody's ever really gone.
Fallacy said and I quote “Target me, Fallacy” and that you should know what to do.
Also, there might be two mafia teams? Or Lenglon was bullshitting, but I don’t think so.
I killed FallcyofUrist. I didn't just kill him though, I superkiled him. I really needed that slot solved.
Cool also fuck you.
Also, Fallacy told me to say Toonyman mentioned double scum teams before Egan gave the info. Soooo, I’m trusting the sourcesUh, no I didn't?
Toonyman
Jim and I are also masons.(https://i.imgur.com/jrXXava.jpg)
Hmm, if Toonyman was Leng's partner and Max + Jim are team A, maybe it's better to take out one of Max or Jim today. Divide and conquer; two weakened scum teams are weaker than one full strength one.I mean, Max and Jim both killed people last night as "masons" so I think I'm okay with this.
I’m about to slump, so take all my info.Thank you medium Knightwing. These are all great points dead people!
Fallacy:
(Jim just admitted to superkilling me, He shot a claimed mason Is there any world where he's not scum With his superkill, too!)
Lenglon:
(Hey Medium, please pass along this: First, I confirm what Egan said about there being more than 1 scumteam. Second, I'm almost completely certain that Max is a member of the other one, and that he killed me because I accidently gave away the presence of two scumteams. Third, my top canidate for Max's scumbuddy is Jim.)
Hmm, if Toonyman was Leng's partner
I suspect Toony and juicebox are a scumteam, and Lenglon's partner is still out there.
Jim and I are also masons.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah okay mafia ally mason team.
Do I thunderdome FallacyofUrist at the end of Day 1 if I'm not myself on a mason team?You're right, it's pretty understandable to doubt a mason claim when you yourself are a mason. I didn't really get the impression you were masons on D1 though. You're either really good at hiding it or came up with this idea after D1.
I don't think ToonyMan is Lenglon's partner. I really wonder if he spends as much time as he does weighing in on the Tric/FoU argument and even calls FoU a mafia ally if in the back of his mind he's thinking there might be a way for FoU to eventually join his team.This shows someone seriously considering the events of D1. I think this looks good.
If anything, any player who weighed in against FoU is less likely to be Lenglon's partner and any players who came in on the side of FoU or mostly avoided it are more likely to be Lenglon's partner. Players in the first category are ToonyMan, A_Curious_Cat, juicebox. Players in the latter would be notquitethere, hector13, any of the other lurkers. hector13 weighed in in FoU's favor, which I'll grant he could genuinely do as town.
You're right, it's pretty understandable to doubt a mason claim when you yourself are a mason. I didn't really get the impression you were masons on D1 though. You're either really good at hiding it or came up with this idea after D1.Is this a joke. I was breadcrumbing it the whole ass time.
Calling it now: Mason chat is mafia chat.
Hmm, if Toonyman was Leng's partner and Max + Jim are team A, maybe it's better to take out one of Max or Jim today. Divide and conquer; two weakened scum teams are weaker than one full strength one.What the heck are you talking about? Two mafia teams can kill twice as many people as a single full-strength one in 99% of situations! Even if max or jim are mafia (and I wouldnt doubt atleast one of them are frankly) we would be much better off finding Lenglons partner then going for "two weakened scum teams" memery.
I wasn't thinking very well earlier, it's true.Hmm, if Toonyman was Leng's partner and Max + Jim are team A, maybe it's better to take out one of Max or Jim today. Divide and conquer; two weakened scum teams are weaker than one full strength one.What the heck are you talking about? Two mafia teams can kill twice as many people as a single full-strength one in 99% of situations! Even if max or jim are mafia (and I wouldnt doubt atleast one of them are frankly) we would be much better off finding Lenglons partner then going for "two weakened scum teams" memery.
There will be more kills in play, but rather than coordinating, those two kills will be aimed at one another. They still have to kill the other to win, while two mafia can focus entirely on dismantling the town. And once one of the two remaining mafia teams eliminate the other, which they have to do to win the game, there will just be one scum left for us to mop up.This is a pretty dangerous assumption to make while it is true in the very likely situation that there are two mafia teams that they would probably eventually gotta kill eachother there is nothing stopping them from setting aside their differences for a bit and silently agreeing to take out all the town first instead besides if we take out Lenglons partner and your right on Max and Jim being mafia then we can just kill them next! I dont get why this is that hard to understand.
What the heck are you talking about? Two mafia teams can kill twice as many people as a single full-strength one in 99% of situations! Even if max or jim are mafia (and I wouldnt doubt atleast one of them are frankly) we would be much better off finding Lenglons partner then going for "two weakened scum teams" memery.That's... actually a really good point.
If there are two teams it would probably implicate Curious Cat because I don’t think they mentioned much about you D1, and there are better options for an inspect (me, or a lurker, for example) that they could have inspected;
These seem like very silly questions for "No Fun Allowed" Lenglon to make.I walk up to Toonyman and lean into his personal space, looking up to him while only just barely not touching him, my hands holding each other behind my back as I sway back and forth.
"Toony-kun Toony-kun Toonykun, there's nothing wrong with having a little fun early in the day now is there?"
my left hand drifts out from behind me and slowly traces its way up his right arm
"I might be serious when it comes time to make a proper lynch case later on, but later. is. not. now."
my hand drifts from Toony's shoulder up to before his mouth
"shhhhhhhhh. Let me have my fun."
I pull my hand back behind me and hop backwards one step as my hands re-clasp each other.
"Besides, there might be a method to my madness, you know?"
I spin around and walk away, eyes tracking certain other individuals in the room.
Fluffe seems to be panicking a bit, not sure if that means they’re Toony’s partner or Lenglon’s though. Or, indeed, juicebox’s. That’s why I think they’re more likely scum than KW.I was going more for an authoritative loud tone then a panicky tone although its text so cant blame ya for not picking that up.
- someone targeted Toony to frame him (possible but seems unlikely)It's very possible.
- someone targeted Egan and Curious Cat and messed woth them (this has been basically ruled out)
- someone targeted Toony to frame him (possible but seems unlikely)
If someone visited me to change my results, then they did so while untrackable. Or they were juicebox doing two different things to me, I guess. I know this because I received a list of people who visited me.
This person or maybe an ally would had to have also visited you. This is all technically possible but it would be a lot of stuff happening just right for our enemies.
Targeting Toony to frame him seems more possible. Though I'm not really experienced enough to say how common such an ability would be.
I'm still standing by my result and consider Toony outed mafia.
Targeting Toony to frame him seems more possible. Though I'm not really experienced enough to say how common such an ability would be.I checked, in BYOR15 Toaster got a mafia result on IcyTea (who was masons with 4mask or something) but one of the mafia had framed IcyTea the night before. It was FoU/Nirur/Jim/Leafsnail I don't want to dig through the logs on which one exactly did it.
I'm still standing by my result and consider Toony outed mafia.Brain Power: High
I see. I think that’s enough for me to vote ToonyMan then, unless he can come up with something really convincing before the day ends or he gets hammered.You can think whatever you want. I just don't want town to lose when I'm dead.
I'm writing a big post
ToonyMan, sell me on hector13. My gut says I don't like this lynch despite my misgivings about him during Day 1.I can't give a detailed case, there isn't enough time. I think he's the most suspicious player based on their votes and behavior. I'm not going to blame FoU for claiming late, but it didn't help when my top suspect became someone I didn't want to vote in a 15 player game.
I can do that. I got distracted Day 2 by...other things going on.ToonyMan, sell me on hector13. My gut says I don't like this lynch despite my misgivings about him during Day 1.I can't give a detailed case, there isn't enough time. I think he's the most suspicious player based on their votes and behavior. I'm not going to blame FoU for claiming late, but it didn't help when my top suspect became someone I didn't want to vote in a 15 player game.
I want to get a clearer understanding of what your case on hector was
Goofy interactions with Cat, more serious response with Hector. Lenglon was also acting really goofy with FoU so I think this makes Cat look better and Hector worse.Does it? Fallacy was on Lenglon's team in an important sense.
Fair point.Goofy interactions with Cat, more serious response with Hector. Lenglon was also acting really goofy with FoU so I think this makes Cat look better and Hector worse.Does it? Fallacy was on Lenglon's team in an important sense.
If I simply don't think too hard about things, I can't be outsmarted by overthinking AND I have more time to play videogames and update forum games and sleep.I'm still standing by my result and consider Toony outed mafia.Brain Power: High
snip
They actually started acting goofy a bit before that happened.When did FoU and Lenglon begin communicating? Would you be able to point to a specific post in this thread?
T’be fair I was waiting for Toony to post as I suspected he would have me as his top scumread.What gave you that impression.
I propose a ballsy move, that we keep Toony alive today so he has to get killed in the night by the opposing team. That way we actually spend the day not being wholly distracted by inspect results, and finding the scum still left during the day, while they murder each other by night.(https://i.imgur.com/VjbRlQi.jpg)
T’be fair I was waiting for Toony to post as I suspected he would have me as his top scumread.What gave you that impression.
I propose a ballsy move, that we keep Toony alive today so he has to get killed in the night by the opposing team. That way we actually spend the day not being wholly distracted by inspect results, and finding the scum still left during the day, while they murder each other by night.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Max what was up with you at day end D1? You don’t get worked up, and you don’t bottle out of silly games like Chicken. What were you doing?I didn't get worked up until you did this:
I'll let you know if you still have that vote on him in 42 minutes.So to be clear, you are challenging me to a game of chicken?
I never lose those.
A dumb EuchreJack making proclamations that make no sense because he's paranoid is a town EuchreJack.
Yet you're still voting for him...
If not Jack, then who?
It's D1 my reads on everyone don't have to be perfect, so if you're more interested in a game of chicken than eliminating scum, I'll re-evaluate you N1 and D2. [...] It's better than leaving your vote on someone you think is town.
Aye exactly, coward.
I wasn't so worked up that I couldn't calmly abuse Jack for his panicking just like in d1 of the recent Paranormal. But you're right, it really did bother me, a little, to have to choose between petty pride in not backing down, and my strong townread of Jack. It bothered me even more to actually finally give up on the petty pride. I love petty pride. I hate having my love for petty pride exploited like that.Who's gonna take the blame?Okay, there's still half an hour, settle the god damn down. Vote for hector, maybe.
Who's avoiding the blame?
Nah bro your thought processes are a bit alien to me for whatever reason to the point I think you’re a machine, and think I might be somewhat autistic too so other people’s motivations are… tricky, but all that’s not important right now.I'm the opposite of a machine. I'm an enigma. Well, almost the opposite of a machine.
Egan. I come bearing a message from beyond the grave. Listen well, because I’m going to bed after this.
There will be more kills in play, but rather than coordinating, those two kills will be aimed at one another. They still have to kill the other to win, while two mafia can focus entirely on dismantling the town. And once one of the two remaining mafia teams eliminate the other, which they have to do to win the game, there will just be one scum left for us to mop up.
Toony was one of my candidates for scum on D1, so this works for me.
snip
I definitely agree with Knightwing not being Lenglon's partner here, Lenglon would definitely keep him under a tighter leash.
I'm not convinced hector is, either. Toony, what's your theory here? I know what he did to Jim but I'm not sure Jim wants to claim in thread yet, but let's say it was "mean". I could see him wanting to buff Fallacy somehow as Lenglon's partner, and kill Toaster for some reason? Or did the other team kill Toaster?
So I'm just going to go for it. hector13.
Does Jim still have a superkill?
I propose a ballsy move, that we keep Toony alive today so he has to get killed in the night by the opposing team. That way we actually spend the day not being wholly distracted by inspect results, and finding the scum still left during the day, while they murder each other by night.
We flip one of Max and Jim today. If they’re scum the game is over, ggs.
I claimed this in the first post of the day.I didn't notice.
Flipping one of you will either give us the other scum team - and thus the gameAgain, you can only think this if you think Toony is Lenglon's partner. Otherwise, Lenglon's partner would be in the wind.
or another confirmed town for D3 to grow our burgeoning town core.This is at least sound, but doesn't seem worth it to me when there are up to three scum players unknown (if Toony is indeed framed) and certainly two. Also I'll probably just get killed.
The two investigative roles also give us information on two more players, so confirming the alignments of half the town or more.It's a lot to assume they will survive the night, not be blocked or redirected, and there isn't a framer.
I notice you’re not attacking the merits of the idea, rather making ad hominem arguements or saying town would lose even if you’re scum.If you mean me, I didn't make any ad hominem argument. I didn't go deeply into the merits of the idea, but now I did, okay?
Flipping one of you will either give us the other scum team - and thus the gameAgain, you can only think this if you think Toony is Lenglon's partner. Otherwise, Lenglon's partner would be in the wind.
Quoteor another confirmed town for D3 to grow our burgeoning town core.This is at least sound, but doesn't seem worth it to me when there are up to three scum players unknown (if Toony is indeed framed) and certainly two. Also I'll probably just get killed.
QuoteThe two investigative roles also give us information on two more players, so confirming the alignments of half the town or more.It's a lot to assume they will survive the night, not be blocked or redirected, and there isn't a framer.
QuoteI notice you’re not attacking the merits of the idea, rather making ad hominem arguements or saying town would lose even if you’re scum.If you mean me, I didn't make any ad hominem argument. I didn't go deeply into the merits of the idea, but now I did, okay?
I notice you’re not attacking the merits of the idea, rather making ad hominem arguements or saying town would lose even if you’re scum.
I think we’ve had action claims from me, you, Jim, Toony, NQT, Egan, Cat, and juicebox.So Knightwing and Fluffe haven't claimed any night action. Not surprised if they are both scum, but almost certainly Fluffe is.
To be clear: Jim was making ad hominem attacks (“it doesn’t make sense you’d prefer this over eliminating scum!Toony”) and Max said town would lose even if I think they’re scum.Neither of those are ad hominem.
You’ve claimed a protect, why not use it on Egan?Missed this. I don't have a protect of my own, but last night I was rummaging around in other people's roles. I can't just do it again.
I think we’ve had action claims from me, you, Jim, Toony, NQT, Egan, Cat, and juicebox.So Knightwing and Fluffe haven't claimed any night action. Not surprised if they are both scum, but almost certainly Fluffe is.
Egan. I come bearing a message from beyond the grave. Listen well, because I’m going to bed after this.
Imagine you're screaming about the game in dead chat and you have Knightwing64 as your messenger lmao
Tric wants me to send a meme, but I don’t know how to do images
[img]https://www.example.com/images/image.png[/img]
[img width=200 height=300]https://www.example.com/images/image.png[/img]
[spoiler=Spoiler text][img width=800]https://www.example.com/images/image.png[/img][/spoiler]
Lenglon wants me to send some fancy code message to their teammate but it seems like way too much effortSending messages on behalf of scum players wouldn't be very pro-town either, so it's better this way.
Knightwing, what do the dead think of the inspects on Toony? Do we have good reason to readily dismiss them? I think it's a bit funny how Toony is quite confident with his town inspect on me, while simultaneously casting doubt on the two inspects on himself!Think for two seconds: Scum framing me would mean you were also framed to look town by your partner, or you're a godfather. My results couldn't have been redirected in any way, because you claim to have tracked me last night and can confirm I targeted you and Hector. The most likely doubt is that you're a godfather, but then last night was a complete train wreck and bullshit. I think it's a possibility, but I don't really want to humor it.
I was being sarcastic.Mostly the “oh there’s not enough time to lay out my case” nonsense at the end of D1. I suspect you were just chancing your arm on starting a wagon on someone else, and also allowing you a starting point for D2 if it didn’t end in an elimination.T’be fair I was waiting for Toony to post as I suspected he would have me as his top scumread.What gave you that impression.
I highly doubt Knightwing is scum. I agree about Fluffe if Max and Jim are innocent. We need to sort N1 action claims.I think we’ve had action claims from me, you, Jim, Toony, NQT, Egan, Cat, and juicebox.So Knightwing and Fluffe haven't claimed any night action. Not surprised if they are both scum, but almost certainly Fluffe is.
Jim, what have you done that’s makes you so much better then me? I have like 4 people in dead chat screaming that your scumThis is meme image material.
(No, I do not think the inspects on Toony are false. With 4 teams of 2, half the players have a kill. (Sorry Toony. You're just suspect. Claiming your own wasn't messed with is also unlikely, as it could be.)It's okay.
I've thought about it for three seconds and that's nonsense. If scum hit you with a ray that made you into a miller for the night, then that wouldn't impact your results at all.What the fuck? I'm saying how unlikely it is that scum would also frame you to look town last night if someone was framing me. I couldn't have been redirected in any way because of your own claim. That's two frame actions that both hit their mark. It's not very likely. The most likely answer to a possible false result is that you're a kind of godfather. You clearly need more than three seconds.
Scum framing me would mean you were also framed to look town by your partner, or you're a godfather
So Knightwing and Fluffe haven't claimed any night action. Not surprised if they are both scum, but almost certainly Fluffe is.I didnt really see the point in claiming an action, all I did last night is use an action that lets me commute so I dont get murdered during the night I aint got any actual useful information to give.
Fluffe9911 - lurklurklurklurklurk; Fluffe9911 didn't do anything on Day 1 and hasn't done much on Day 2I have done things is just half the damn questions I ask/points I make get ignored and I got a life outside of forum mafia shenaniganery limiting the time I can actively participate in the game.
What do you think of my plan Fluffe?The ballsy one? Extremely flawed mostly because it relies on the hope that mafia will just decide to kill Toony tonight for some reason. Infact even sharing that plan I feel lowers the odds of it actually working by a bajillion percent.
Toony this is a complete non-sequiter:You aren't being clear.QuoteScum framing me would mean you were also framed to look town by your partner, or you're a godfather
It literally doesn't follow. I know you targeted me. I believe you had a real inspect and weren't just guessing. I wasn't framed. Scum haven't framed me, and scum framing you doesn't mean that they would frame me.
I have no idea how you made that leap, so the most likely explanation is we're talking past each other here.
With both you and Juicebox in hiding last night that would explain why you didn't kill anyone.So Knightwing and Fluffe haven't claimed any night action. Not surprised if they are both scum, but almost certainly Fluffe is.I didnt really see the point in claiming an action, all I did last night is use an action that lets me commute so I dont get murdered during the night I aint got any actual useful information to give.
There is an incredible incentive for both town and mafia to kill me.What do you think of my plan Fluffe?The ballsy one? Extremely flawed mostly because it relies on the hope that mafia will just decide to kill Toony tonight for some reason. Infact even sharing that plan I feel lowers the odds of it actually working by a bajillion percent.
Toony wants to kill Hector and is essentially thunderdoming him, Hector doesn't want to kill Toony. Hmm..
One other weird thing— didn't the start and end of day say Juice had disappeared somewhere — how was he still able to night act?
Fluffe, who murdered Toaster?
Fluffe, who murdered Toaster?Im unsure for certain although I personally think its between Toony, or Hector
‘cause I’m clearly the most sensible one out of the lot of us, and webadict felt sorry for me having to deal with the rest of you.Uhuh...
People can also do more than one action in the night, what makes you think anybody in particular is clear of killing Toaster?I said most likely suspects you are correct in that almost no one can actually be fully cleared but I believe some people are more likely to of killed them than others
Mafia medium’s are possible. I think it was webadict’s Supernatural had 3 mediums, one of which was scum. Pretty sure the game was linked earlier by Jim during our argument about meta-reading FoU.
One other weird thing— didn't the start and end of day say Juice had disappeared somewhere — how was he still able to night act?I can answer this for him. He has a 1-shot ability that lets him commute while having 6AP. I saw it as soon as he did so because, as I said, being out of the game is like being dead.
If Toony was framed then Curious Cat was the most likely suspect to do it, that's clear to me now.I concluded the same thing, yes.
My point being I’m wondering why you’re being so dismissive of KW and Cat.KW moves up a level in the sus tier now that I know apparantly mafia mediums can exist while Cat I aint sus about cause wouldn't it imply they were buddies with Lenglon? Which just simply based off their past interactions as I mentioned earlier feels very wrong.
Mafia medium’s are possible. I think it was webadict’s Supernatural had 3 mediums, one of which was scum. Pretty sure the game was linked earlier by Jim during our argument about meta-reading FoU.That was the most recent Paranormal, don't worry, I've confused the two almost identical names a couple times too.
KW moves up a level in the sus tier now that I know apparantly mafia mediums can exist while Cat I aint sus about cause wouldn't it imply they were buddies with Lenglon? Which just simply based off their past interactions as I mentioned earlier feels very wrong.Ugh, I should have copied this into the last post.
I literally did claim, I claimed that I had no idea. I did two actions and only one succeeded. I don’t know which one did.Want to share targets at least?
Why would a mafia medium even…
Bro whatever
KW moves up a level in the sus tier now that I know apparantly mafia mediums can exist while Cat I aint sus about cause wouldn't it imply they were buddies with Lenglon? Which just simply based off their past interactions as I mentioned earlier feels very wrong.In this theoretical Cat is mafia who the hell would even be their partner though? Honestly I think im mentally looping around myself so many times trying to work out who the hell is bad that im just getting schitzo. I know there is probably a second team but my brain is just going HURR DURR when I try to input feken cat into the equation and im gonna stop thinking about this before I give myself a brain aneurysm.
Ugh, I should have copied this into the last post.
There's (seemingly, likely) a whole extra mafia team. We don't know that the Lenglon/? team killed Toaster. Honestly, the only way you could be convinced of this is if you were on the other one and knew you didn't.
Evidently I misread the latter part as they have to be dead, else I kill them and then take it.You're claiming that you accidentally murdered Toaster and took his vote. Wow. Just wow.
You're claiming that you accidentally murdered Toaster and took his vote. Wow. Just wow.Hate when that happens hector13
Juicebox couldn't have killed anyone since they were missing.Juicebox visited me while being missing. That logic is flawed.
Toaster:"Cowabunga, now I don't have to use any
(Hector is 100% scum; he’s lying about stealing my vote. I would have been told if I lost my vote and I was not.)
The unnamed turtle points a finger at the doge dog. "Kill me Fluffe. You or Juicebox, I dare you. I triple pizza-dog dare you!"You're claiming that you accidentally murdered Toaster and took his vote. Wow. Just wow.Hate when that happens hector13
Right, that's true.Juicebox couldn't have killed anyone since they were missing.Juicebox visited me while being missing. That logic is flawed.
Egan, my dude, you’re the only person I’m sure I can trust; what are your thoughts on the game?Jim and Max killed my sibling and therefore they must die. Either as scum or for the same reason they killed Fallacy.
Toaster:Knightwing, why aren't you voting him then? :P
(Hector is 100% scum; he’s lying about stealing my vote. I would have been told if I lost my vote and I was not.)
👁👄👁
Thank you Knightwing, you're being very helpful.
Anyways, since I haven't seen anyone talking about it and it was part of Fallacy's flip anyway so not a secret, I have access to a 1AP mafiakill.If I believe Max and Jim then mafia are inside Cat/Fluffe/Juicebox. I really doubt Knightwing is mafia. I'm fairly confident Max and specifically Jim are telling the truth. I don't see Cat as mafia, but they could be if they're an amazing actor. I still think Fluffe/Juicebox is most likely.
If Hector and Toony are indeed thunderdoming, we vote one out and they're town, then I can kill the other one. Likely a success if they're Leng's partner and thus have nobody to protect them.
Fluffe - Either confused town or confused scum. Silly Fluffe KW is perfect in every way how dare you call him a mafia medium.Hey I didnt call him a mafia medium I just asked if it was possible!
Juicebox, 6AP is a lot of AP. What else did you do??The only thing I haven't claimed is that I used an ability that allowed me to perform the same action on myself that I used on Toony
Could easily be NQT given the town result, and obviously if they’re partners they can vouch for each others actions easily enough, seeing as they know them in advance.My result will be confirmed telling the truth when I die.
I still think there's a good chance Toony is on the other scum team, perhaps with NQT/Fluffe.Bring it.
Knightwing, why aren't you voting him then? :P
I think we all agree it’s unlikely Toony and Lenglon were partners.
As for my vote, at this point I think Hector is the best option at this point. He was already a strong candidate to be Lenglon's partner, and the information we just got from Toaster is pretty damning.(Emphasis added)
Toony seems to be completely ignoring the possibility of a Lenglon/Toony scum team.I wonder why that could be! 🤔
As for my vote, at this point I think Hector is the best option at this point. He was already a strong candidate to be Lenglon's partner, and the information we just got from Toaster is pretty damning.(Emphasis added)
What information? Did I miss something again? Could you provide a link please.
Either hector or KW is lying. Unfortunately, unlike with Max and hector, it’s impossible to know for sure.
You can also join BYOR 16. That will be as beginner friendly as I make it.
Who to lynch first? Toony to hector? Who to lynch first…
Also, that exchange was what I was referring to when I saidQuoteEither hector or KW is lying. Unfortunately, unlike with Max and hector, it’s impossible to know for sure.
I’m currently leaning towards KW being the one telling the truth based on what you just said.
Who to lynch first? Toony to hector? Who to lynch first…
Also, that exchange was what I was referring to when I saidQuoteEither hector or KW is lying. Unfortunately, unlike with Max and hector, it’s impossible to know for sure.
I’m currently leaning towards KW being the one telling the truth based on what you just said.
Hector isn't claiming that KW is lying. Hector is claiming that they misread their role.
I didn't consider a Lenglon/Toony team when I was doing my analysis.Toony seems to be completely ignoring the possibility of a Lenglon/Toony scum team.I wonder why that could be! 🤔
What do you think of Juicebox?
Jim needs to be on the wagon though and Jim won’t vote.It's funny that you say that.
Hoist by my own petard.Jim needs to be on the wagon though and Jim won’t vote.It's funny that you say that.
Why would a mafia medium even…
Bro whatever
Fallacy:
(That would eliminate the Lenglon-hector13 scumteam, I think. But since scum are most motivated to kill other scum, I don't think that's a good idea at this time If I were you I'd vote either Jim or Toony.)
Getting sent mixed messages
Jim needs to be on the wagon though and Jim won’t vote.
Egan, my dude, you’re the only person I’m sure I can trust; what are your thoughts on the game?Jim and Max killed my sibling and therefore they must die. Either as scum or for the same reason they killed Fallacy.
Personally, I would rather eliminate the player that was caught lying.
I’m constantly getting spammed messages about town being dumb and how obvious the fact Jim, Hector and Toony? are mafia.
GUYS STOPPpPp
Lenglon:
(remember how I mentioned Jim likes to try to sweep under the rug stuff that he doesn't like? he literally never responded to that message from FoU. this is what Jim does. he doesn't have a counter to it, so he pretends it doesn't exist and for some dumbass reason people let him get away with it.)
We’re getting bamboozled
Jim
I’m constantly getting spammed messages about town being dumb and how obvious the fact Jim, Hector and Toony? are mafia.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I’m constantly getting spammed messages about town being dumb and how obvious the fact Jim, Hector and Toony? are mafia.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I’m constantly getting spammed messages about town being dumb and how obvious the fact Jim, Hector and Toony? are mafia.A fate worse than death to be forever pestered with the voices of the salty dead.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Says you.Come on, now, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.Egan, my dude, you’re the only person I’m sure I can trust; what are your thoughts on the game?Jim and Max killed my sibling and therefore they must die. Either as scum or for the same reason they killed Fallacy.
Being spiteful is not productive.
Can we lynch both hector13 and ToonyMan at the same time?No, but I guess, if they're tied, we can force scum to pick which to lynch, if you wanted that for some reason. :P
Role Name:
Voter Fraud
Alignment:
Mafia
Win Condition:
You win when your team outnumbers or equals the remaining Players, and there are no ways to stop your team.
Abilities:
(1-Shot, Auto) Refuge In Audacity: Non-Recruit Actions treat you as Town. You gain 1 Action Point for each Player voting you at the end of the Day. The first time you are Killed, you Revive and remove this Ability.
Tags: Auto, Revive, Frame, Motivate, Vote
(Auto) Redistricting: Whenever you gain additional Action Points from an Ability not named Redistricting, you also gain that many on the following Cycle. For every 4 Action Points you have during the Night Phase, you gain an additional vote during the following Day Phase.
Tags: Motivate, Vote, Evolve
{AP1+} (Night) Voter Suppression [target]: You may increase the cost of this Action above 1. If the target votes during the next Day, they cannot perform any Action costing less than or equal to X during the following Night, where X is the number of Action Points you spent on this.
Tags: Vote, Disable
{AP3/4} (Single, Night) Voter Fraud [target]: {Target/You} gain(s) an additional vote. This Action changes based on the amount of Action Points spent.
Tags: Vote
Role Name:
Retired Game Master With a Penguin Helper
Alignment:
Town
Win Condition:
You win when all anti-Town factions have been eliminated and at least one Town Player is still alive.
Abilities:
(Setup) Choices: The Retired Game Master is old and tired, and though their words and mind are experienced, they still ask their Penguin Helper for ideas. On the first Day, Choose four (4) Abilities from Abilities List, and add them to your Role.
{AP3} (Day) Crown [target/self]: You make an executive order. The target (or you) cannot be the target of Actions during the next Night Phase. This can only be used on any Player once per Game. This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, Immune
(Innate) Help From Beyond: The Retired Game Master recommends you request help from those you know can be trusted. You gain access to Deadchat.
(Auto) Fudge The Numbers: The Penguin Helper makes a quick adjustment to your Role. You have 2 additional Action Points each Night Phase.
{AP2/3} (Night) Revision [target]: The Retired Game Master shakes his head in frustration. The target’s Auto Abilities are Disabled during the {next Night/next 2 Nights}. This Action changes based on the cost paid for this Action.
{AP2/3} (Night) Inexperience [target]: The Penguin Helper puts unnecessary barriers and complications in the target’s way, causing the Action Point cost of all Actions the target uses to be increased by 1 during the {next Night/next 2 Nights}. This Action changes based on the cost paid for this Action.
No my alignment hasn't changed, I'm still town. Nice ability you gave me, although it's not all that useful at this point
I have a masonchat that Fallacy can see, he can't respond to me or talk to Knightwing for me, although that last one is a moot point now.
I inspected juicebox and motion detected Fluffe9911. Both actions apparently succeeded, but also only returned “REDACTED”. There’s at least one scum left.
How many scum are left? Given the number of kills we probably need to tread carefully here.Should be one team of two, or possibly, but less likely, two teams of one. We can infer that Egan didn't use the bonus mafiakill, and we know we didn't have any kills to use this time, which implies that Egacy and we were the only town-aligned kills, or someone held out.
I inspected juicebox and motion detected Fluffe9911. Both actions apparently succeeded, but also only returned “REDACTED”. There’s at least one scum left.I also inspected Juicebox and tracked Fluffe. Both actions were successful, but my results were "REDACTED".
I also got a couple REDACTED. A global effect, maybe.That's what it seems like.
Did you get my offer Egan? Because one of the effects was a protect, the other was to make you unblockable.No? No offers. I just received a 1-shot protect action.
I also tried to use my hat on Toony but I got the result of redacted as well
How many scum are left? Given the number of kills we probably need to tread carefully here.Should be one team of two, or possibly, but less likely, two teams of one. We can infer that Egan didn't use the bonus mafiakill, and we know we didn't have any kills to use this time, which implies that Egacy and we were the only town-aligned kills, or someone held out.
Okay, never mind, Egan claims to have shot you like an asshole, but it didn't work.
Egan_BW: TownI'm pretty sure mafia are Fluffe and Juicebox. Stop trying to kill Jim. Or me.
juicebox: Town probably
A_Curious_Cat: 👍
notquitethere: pretty good still
Fluffe9911: eh
Jim Groovester: please die for my revenge
Maximum Spin: whatever, you too
ToonyMan: scum
No One: Without sin.
Therefore we kill Toonyman next.
Anyone want to claim the Knightwing kill?I can confirm that it was not me or Jim.
Oh one last interesting night result. somebody took a shot away from one of my abilities.Would you be willing to tell me which?
Did you get my offer Egan? Because one of the effects was a protect, the other was to make you unblockable.
I also tried to use my hat on Toony but I got the result of redacted as well
I'm pretty sure mafia are Fluffe and Juicebox. Stop trying to kill Jim. Or me.I was talking with my Dad so I couldn't post right away, but Curious Cat claiming almost literally the exact same actions as me means we are on the exact same wavelengths, or they're a masterful manipulator.
So, to start with, ToonyMan is either scum or framed.What do you mean? I don't know who targeted me on N1. You're probably thinking of Egan or NQT. I think it was Juicebox who framed me. It has to be him or Curious Cat, but I can't see it being Cat.
ToonyMan, did you know who targeted you n1 or something? I remember you listing people who had targeted you, but I don't remember if you knew it was exhaustive, and I got bored trying to look right now.
What do you mean? I don't know who targeted me on N1. You're probably thinking of Egan or NQT. I think it was Juicebox who framed me. It has to be him or Curious Cat, but I can't see it being Cat.It looks like we got hit by a giant global REDACTED effect last night. If NQT was part of the mafia team that could also be what happened N1 with a global miller bomb or something, but I find that hard to believe and don't think it's worth considering.
I'm pretty sure mafia are Fluffe and Juicebox. Stop trying to kill Jim. Or me.I am pretty confident it's not Juicebox. I saw his whole role when he disappeared. First of all, he doesn't have a frame, and you think you were framed. Plus, looking back over my results, I figured out what he did to Egan and that was actually not something new, but just me misinterpreting what he said. It was just chocolate. So he's been honest this whole time, and nothing in his role looks remotely sinister.
What do you mean? I don't know who targeted me on N1. You're probably thinking of Egan or NQT. I think it was Juicebox who framed me. It has to be him or Curious Cat, but I can't see it being Cat.What I mean is, is there any chance NQT or Fluffe framed you? Because, as I said, I am confident it wasn't juicebox. Honestly, I don't think it was either of them either.
Did you get my offer Egan? Because one of the effects was a protect, the other was to make you unblockable.No? No offers. I just received a 1-shot protect action.
I also tried to use my hat on Toony but I got the result of redacted as well
The protect action probably came from me then. Oh one last interesting night result. somebody took a shot away from one of my abilities.
Interesting. What do you mean by “offer”?
So, to start with, ToonyMan is either scum or framed.
ToonyMan, did you know who targeted you n1 or something? I remember you listing people who had targeted you, but I don't remember if you knew it was exhaustive, and I got bored trying to look right now.Anyone want to claim the Knightwing kill?I can confirm that it was not me or Jim.Oh one last interesting night result. somebody took a shot away from one of my abilities.Would you be willing to tell me which?
If you've seen Juicebox's role did they have the REDACTED bomb? If not, it was probably Fluffe who did the bomb. Which means it's Fluffe/Juicebox or Fluffe/NQT. It doesn't really matter if you believe me or not, that's who the mafia have to be since Curious Cat has spewed themselves town in more ways than one. I don't think that's much of a spoiler, since Cat has been spewing themselves town in this thread the entire game.I'm pretty sure mafia are Fluffe and Juicebox. Stop trying to kill Jim. Or me.I am pretty confident it's not Juicebox. I saw his whole role when he disappeared. First of all, he doesn't have a frame, and you think you were framed. Plus, looking back over my results, I figured out what he did to Egan and that was actually not something new, but just me misinterpreting what he said. It was just chocolate. So he's been honest this whole time, and nothing in his role looks remotely sinister.What do you mean? I don't know who targeted me on N1. You're probably thinking of Egan or NQT. I think it was Juicebox who framed me. It has to be him or Curious Cat, but I can't see it being Cat.What I mean is, is there any chance NQT or Fluffe framed you? Because, as I said, I am confident it wasn't juicebox. Honestly, I don't think it was either of them either.
If you've seen Juicebox's role did they have the REDACTED bomb? If not, it was probably Fluffe who did the bomb. Which means it's Fluffe/Juicebox or Fluffe/NQT. It doesn't really matter if you believe me or not, that's who the mafia have to be since Curious Cat has spewed themselves town in more ways than one. I don't think that's much of a spoiler, since Cat has been spewing themselves town in this thread the entire game.I'm pretty sure mafia are Fluffe and Juicebox. Stop trying to kill Jim. Or me.I am pretty confident it's not Juicebox. I saw his whole role when he disappeared. First of all, he doesn't have a frame, and you think you were framed. Plus, looking back over my results, I figured out what he did to Egan and that was actually not something new, but just me misinterpreting what he said. It was just chocolate. So he's been honest this whole time, and nothing in his role looks remotely sinister.What do you mean? I don't know who targeted me on N1. You're probably thinking of Egan or NQT. I think it was Juicebox who framed me. It has to be him or Curious Cat, but I can't see it being Cat.What I mean is, is there any chance NQT or Fluffe framed you? Because, as I said, I am confident it wasn't juicebox. Honestly, I don't think it was either of them either.
I’ll note that the reason I inspected juicebox and motion detected Fluffe was because I wasn’t sure about them…I'm almost certain it's the two of them and would prefer that mafia don't win this game.
If you've seen Juicebox's role did they have the REDACTED bomb? If not, it was probably Fluffe who did the bomb. Which means it's Fluffe/Juicebox or Fluffe/NQT. It doesn't really matter if you believe me or not, that's who the mafia have to be since Curious Cat has spewed themselves town in more ways than one. I don't think that's much of a spoiler, since Cat has been spewing themselves town in this thread the entire game.He did not. I'm also pretty sure it's not Fluffe because of my own action on him.
Well, night 1 I was forced to Choose an ability to give to "unknown player", who has to be juicebox. At the end of day 2 I lost that ability, which is an innate which says that I have access to a group masonchat and that my alignment is always the same as Fallacy's. At the same time, I left that chat. I presume that if they're in that chat, they have the same alignment as fallacy.I highly doubt mafia can be converted to town. What game am I even playing if that is the case.
juicebox: what abilities did I gain on night 1?
Fair enough.If you've seen Juicebox's role did they have the REDACTED bomb? If not, it was probably Fluffe who did the bomb. Which means it's Fluffe/Juicebox or Fluffe/NQT. It doesn't really matter if you believe me or not, that's who the mafia have to be since Curious Cat has spewed themselves town in more ways than one. I don't think that's much of a spoiler, since Cat has been spewing themselves town in this thread the entire game.He did not. I'm also pretty sure it's not Fluffe because of my own action on him.
The teams that make the most sense to me right now, actually, are Toony/NQT or Toony/ACC.I'm not with anyone. I literally can't be with any player. In addition, if you think Cat is mafia you are insane.
tho ehMafia are normally unable to be affected by Recruit Abilities, but Abilities may affect this.
mod: if player a with alignment Mafia possesses an innate which says 'your alignment is always the same as player b' and player b has alignment of town and is dead, does player a's alignment indeed change? Or is that not allowed because it's converting mafia?
In addition, if you think Cat is mafia you are insane.Why?
Bah! Where does it even say that in the rules!tho ehMafia are normally unable to be affected by Recruit Abilities, but Abilities may affect this.
mod: if player a with alignment Mafia possesses an innate which says 'your alignment is always the same as player b' and player b has alignment of town and is dead, does player a's alignment indeed change? Or is that not allowed because it's converting mafia?
Want me to angleshoot and probably get modkilled? Or give the censored version?In addition, if you think Cat is mafia you are insane.Why?
Bah! Where does it even say that in the rules!It doesn't. It's an Assumed Rule For The Sake Of Fun, as Recruitable Mafia would be unlikely to work with their team and may even sabotage their efforts in an effort to win, as well as potentially turn in all of their teammates.
Fallacy's ability only says "Whenever you change alignments, REDACT changes to your alignment.", anyway. It doesn't prevent being two different alignments as long as the players started out that way.That's what it says. Always the same. Blame wuba.
It's a little hard to believe yours is different!
Want me to angleshoot and probably get modkilled? Or give the censored version?If you feel more comfortable giving a censored version, go ahead. I don't see any angle though. I thought the angleshooting was on Tric, anyway, with the "didn't get the PM" thing.
Fine, if you say so.Fallacy's ability only says "Whenever you change alignments, REDACT changes to your alignment.", anyway. It doesn't prevent being two different alignments as long as the players started out that way.That's what it says. Always the same. Blame wuba.
It's a little hard to believe yours is different!
Since I have a poor grasp of game design, unstated rules are rules I don't know about.
It doesn't. It's an Assumed Rule For The Sake Of Fun, as Recruitable Mafia would be unlikely to work with their team and may even sabotage their efforts in an effort to win, as well as potentially turn in all of their teammates.
It'd be INCREDIBLY BAD GAME DESIGN to allow Recruiting the Mafia through normal means.
I have a poor grasp of game designSame! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's kind of similar. Which should be convincing because Tric was town, although I made it a point to Toaster that I also read Tric as town on their behavior, same as Curious Cat.Want me to angleshoot and probably get modkilled? Or give the censored version?If you feel more comfortable giving a censored version, go ahead. I don't see any angle though. I thought the angleshooting was on Tric, anyway, with the "didn't get the PM" thing.
It's kind of similar. Which should be convincing because Tric was town, although I made it a point to Toaster that I also read Tric as town on their behavior, same as Curious Cat.Want me to angleshoot and probably get modkilled? Or give the censored version?If you feel more comfortable giving a censored version, go ahead. I don't see any angle though. I thought the angleshooting was on Tric, anyway, with the "didn't get the PM" thing.
Anyway, to play coy Curious Cat said something fairly compromising in the general Discord chat before this day started. It made it quite obvious they are town or at least a solo player. Any player that's alive that saw it could vouch if they want. I don't care and understand if players don't want to see that as evidence, but I can't unsee things that will affect my play.
Interesting. I didn’t know it was compromising… wonder if that’s why my message disappeared?^^^
And because of this. Fluffe is always mafia.Ok first off your pretty much already confirmed mafia by Egan so im voting for you ToonyMan
Let's see Day 3 Fluffe.
And I guess that means I still read juice as mafia. Oh well, I probably could have sent him something less damaging than my entire role and a bunch of chatlogs.
Did you get my offer Egan? Because one of the effects was a protect, the other was to make you unblockable.No? No offers. I just received a 1-shot protect action.
I also tried to use my hat on Toony but I got the result of redacted as wellThe protect action probably came from me then. Oh one last interesting night result. somebody took a shot away from one of my abilities.
That 1-shot protect came from me. Knightwing64 and notquitethere should have also each received something.
Interesting. What do you mean by “offer”?
It's one of my abilities, I offer a player a drink that comes with various effects. It's the same thing I targeted Egan with Night 1, except this time the effects were more beneficial to them.
Anyway, to play coy Curious Cat said something fairly compromising in the general Discord chat before this day started. It made it quite obvious they are town or at least a solo player. Any player that's alive that saw it could vouch if they want. I don't care and understand if players don't want to see that as evidence, but I can't unsee things that will affect my play.Ahh. Jim mentioned seeing something there while I was AFK too but didn't tell me what.
Interesting. I didn’t know it was compromising… wonder if that’s why my message disappeared?You're not allowed to say anything about the game outside the game anyway.
Lastly I tried to hide away in a pot last night but @Maximum Spin stole it (for some reason) which confirms I didnt do anything badOkay, good that we're clear on that, this explains why I don't think it's Fluffe.
juicebox either doesn't understand their role or are being intentionally confounding. Nothing they say they've done seems very much like what they've actually done.Sorry, I shouldn't have ignored this while I was typing the other thing.
juicebox either doesn't understand their role or are being intentionally confounding. Nothing they say they've done seems very much like what they've actually done.
What I can say for sure is that I tried to use my role to protect you N2, and make you unblockable. I think I may be confused on some of the details of the role, but that is what I was attempting to do and I got no notification that it failed.You said you targeted Fluffe n1. Did this succeed?
I have been living on death's door for a majority of this game now.And because of this. Fluffe is always mafia.Ok first off your pretty much already confirmed mafia by Egan so im voting for you ToonyMan
Let's see Day 3 Fluffe.
Secondly I do agree at this point after looking through all the posts I do think Cat is town (I also noticed the discord message slip) Im also 99% certain Egan is town, and im 99% certain NQT is town, Max and Jim outside of some real crazy shenanigans are pretty much confirmed Mason buddies (although put a pin in this), which leaves only me (which it aint), you (which it is), and juice (which logical deduction also says it is)
Lastly I tried to hide away in a pot last night but @Maximum Spin stole it (for some reason) which confirms I didnt do anything bad
juicebox either doesn't understand their role or are being intentionally confounding. Nothing they say they've done seems very much like what they've actually done.It's because they're mafia.
wordsI take back the mean things I held back from saying.
I take back the mean things I held back from saying.I appreciate it.
Each mason team had one uninvestigable quasi-miller. Fallacy and me. If hector was teamed with Lenglon (which seems likely - only one kill happened), maybe each mafia team had one godfather? In particular, maybe NQT's role has to do with changing inspects? It feels a little like a stretch, but it would hang together thematically.I didn't even consider this. Now I will.
I think that means it can be NQT and Fluffe or NQT and juicebox. I don't see how it can be juicebox and Fluffe. I'm not quite clear on why Toony says he can't be with anybody but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because I like Toony.
I'm going to feel like an idiot if NQT is mafia.Welcome to the club!
It's just, it means my top two scumreads during N1 were completely correct, but I get fucked because fuck me. Instead have two players scumcheck me while I clear my enemy as town. I should have lied. That would have been funny.I'm going to feel like an idiot if NQT is mafia.Welcome to the club!
Bah! Where does it even say that in the rules!It doesn't. It's an Assumed Rule For The Sake Of Fun, as Recruitable Mafia would be unlikely to work with their team and may even sabotage their efforts in an effort to win, as well as potentially turn in all of their teammates.
It'd be INCREDIBLY BAD GAME DESIGN to allow Recruiting the Mafia through normal means.
That 1-shot protect came from me. Knightwing64 and notquitethere should have also each received something.I can confirm that I got a 1-shot gift. Knightwing however doesn't have any one-shots on their flip...
Just catching up, but first:That 1-shot protect came from me. Knightwing64 and notquitethere should have also each received something.I can confirm that I got a 1-shot gift. Knightwing however doesn't have any one-shots on their flip...
Just catching up, but first:That 1-shot protect came from me. Knightwing64 and notquitethere should have also each received something.I can confirm that I got a 1-shot gift. Knightwing however doesn't have any one-shots on their flip...
Interesting… I gave him a 1-shot watch…
Maximum SpinI meant Max, not Toaster. Mixup.Toaster, you know Juice's role, right? Can you confirm what his hat was? He claims he hatted Toony last night, is that plausible?
Curious Cat did you motion detect on N1 as well? If so what kind of info did it give?
Curious Cat did you motion detect on N1 as well? If so what kind of info did it give?
No. I did not.
{AP3} (Day) Crown [target/self]: You make an executive order. The target (or you) cannot be the target of Actions during the next Night Phase. This can only be used on any Player once per Game. This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, Immune
Toaster, you know Juice's role, right? Can you confirm what his hat was? He claims he hatted Toony last night, is that plausible?Toaster is dead.
Juice claims to have made Egan unblockable who claims to have superkilled Jim who is still alive.Juicebox probably made Egan unblockable so that Egan would succeed in killing someone.
Juicebox, you've claimed to have given a potion to Egan, used a hat on Toony. I know you've got shed loads of AP. You did something else last night though. Want to fess up?If you know he did something else I think it's likely he's the Knightwing killer.
Toaster is dead.I mean, Juicebox used an investigative hat ability on you. And yes, I meant Max not Toaster (weird mental conflation).
I don't know what being "hatted" means, but I don't see anything that could mean so I don't know what Juicebox did.
Juicebox probably made Egan unblockable so that Egan would succeed in killing someone.From a town-Juice perspective, Egan seems conftown, and so buffing town is probably okay use of a power.
I don't think Knightwing would target Jim with a crown. It doesn't make sense.Right!
If you know he did something else I think it's likely he's the Knightwing killer.Thinking about it some more, I don't think Web would be so cruel as to give a town player a full role inspect and make a scum player's role visible to that town player in a way that outed them, so if Juice is scum and has scum elements to his role, then it's possible they're abilities which don't show up on inspection. Either way, he's not claimed everything yet from N2.
I mean, Juicebox used an investigative hat ability on you. And yes, I meant Max not Toaster (weird mental conflation).So many inspects holy shit. I guess it's possible if Juice is innocent here he would want to check me on a different night than N1.
Fair point.Juicebox probably made Egan unblockable so that Egan would succeed in killing someone.From a town-Juice perspective, Egan seems conftown, and so buffing town is probably okay use of a power.
I agree with all of this.If you know he did something else I think it's likely he's the Knightwing killer.Thinking about it some more, I don't think Web would be so cruel as to give a town player a full role inspect and make a scum player's role visible to that town player in a way that outed them, so if Juice is scum and has scum elements to his role, then it's possible they're abilities which don't show up on inspection. Either way, he's not claimed everything yet from N2.
I think Fluffe is also a likely KW killer, as I have reason to believe Fluffe has lied about his night actions.
I see and would kind of motion detect is it? The role can be implemented in a lot of different ways (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Motion_Detector), and I'm trying to figure out why you would motion detect Fluffe specifically.
Toaster, you know Juice's role, right? Can you confirm what his hat was? He claims he hatted Toony last night, is that plausible?
I meant Max, not Toaster. Mixup.His hat is a Learn that tells you how many actions the target performs so I expect it would be Redacted. Looking back, I see that's what he claimed as well, so it does track.
Max also confirms that Fluffe used an AP 3 power last night. This doesn't stop Fluffe from lying about saying that was all he did. Got something to share with the rest of the class?Other than an auto that has me collect cats (Which was REDACTED) I didn't do anything else also I did ask web about this and he told me that apparently he did plan on having the cats be actually useful but scrapped it while keeping the whole you collect cats thing so I still get cats.
Do we actually have any evidence that Toonyman may have been framed other than the fact he says he's town and is good at saying words? This seems like an occam's razor thing.Zero.
... so what, you just... have cats? Where do the cats come from? Where do they go? Can I have one?Max also confirms that Fluffe used an AP 3 power last night. This doesn't stop Fluffe from lying about saying that was all he did. Got something to share with the rest of the class?Other than an auto that has me collect cats (Which was REDACTED) I didn't do anything else also I did ask web about this and he told me that apparently he did plan on having the cats be actually useful but scrapped it while keeping the whole you collect cats thing so I still get cats.
I see. And are these cats collects from other players or just from nowhere?Max also confirms that Fluffe used an AP 3 power last night. This doesn't stop Fluffe from lying about saying that was all he did. Got something to share with the rest of the class?Other than an auto that has me collect cats (Which was REDACTED) I didn't do anything else also I did ask web about this and he told me that apparently he did plan on having the cats be actually useful but scrapped it while keeping the whole you collect cats thing so I still get cats.
... so what, you just... have cats? Where do the cats come from? Where do they go? Can I have one?Yes It's a cat counter, they come from the infinite cat dimension, I had 4 cats before REDACTED im not sure how many I have right now, and no you can not have any cause you stole my jug you jerk.
I see. And are these cats collects from other players or just from nowhere?As I said infinite cat dimension, dimension of cats.
Do we actually have any evidence that Toonyman may have been framed other than the fact he says he's town and is good at saying words? This seems like an occam's razor thing.
I inspected juicebox and motion detected Fluffe9911. Both actions apparently succeeded, but also only returned “REDACTED”. There’s at least one scum left.
The protect action probably came from me then. Oh one last interesting night result. somebody took a shot away from one of my abilities.
That 1-shot protect came from me. Knightwing64 and notquitethere should have also each received something.
Do we actually have any evidence that Toonyman may have been framed other than the fact he says he's town and is good at saying words? This seems like an occam's razor thing.Zero.
I think it's definitely worth following Occam's Razor if we don't have any other convictions, but I do like to think about teams, and the only partner for Toony that makes sense to me right now is juicebox. I do feel like I thought it could also be NQT and I don't remember why I stopped thinking that, but I have asked Jim to explain to me why he thinks it isn't when he gets a chance.
NQT has been after ToonyMan since at least Day 2 (maybe earlier since NQT said he had a Day 1 case on ToonyMan I never bothered to go look back at). For ToonyMan and NQT to be on the same team together NQT has to hop the fuck on the ToonyMan wagon almost as soon as Egan_BW claims the guilty inspect on ToonyMan and then ride the wagon until Toaster outs hector13. It's possible and I could see notquitethere playing that ruthlessly but it seems less likely given the amount of threats to a potential NQT/ToonyMan team during Day 2; there's still a lot of game left to get through so it seems strange to commit so hard to a bus when notquitethere could easily argue that ToonyMan was likelier to be framed and divert attention elsewhere.Okay.
and no you can not have any cause you stole my jug you jerk.Wow. Fine, next time I'll steal your cats too!
I inspected juicebox and motion detected Fluffe9911. Both actions apparently succeeded, but also only returned “REDACTED”. There’s at least one scum left.The protect action probably came from me then. Oh one last interesting night result. somebody took a shot away from one of my abilities.
That 1-shot protect came from me. Knightwing64 and notquitethere should have also each received something.
This seems like a lot of actions.
Knightwing could just have been bussed with the actual kill target.Very good point: Egan has a supposedly unblockable kill unaccounted for. Maybe Egan was redirected to Knightwing, or else hypnotised to kill.
PfpBetter have a good song!
Big post from me tonight
You guys are gonna love it, well maybe some of you
I'm definitely going to enjoy making it
So, I'm pretty sure notquitethere did the redaction bomb and is claiming to have the information it hid, releasing it in dribs and drabs.The annoying thing is I was rethinking this and meant to preview it and start editing, but I hit post by accident. Well, whatever. I don't really care either way right now, I have a headache and I'll come back to the thread later.
An action based on controlling what people Learn seems totally consistent with my previous theory that he could be a framer and a godfather. It doesn't seem much more OP than other players have been. I could easily see him with juicebox, which seems about equal in power level to the hector/Lenglon team. Notquitethere is, of course, now controlling the juicebox inspect results.
I feel like notquitethere keeps refusing to think in terms of teams, which is pretty scummy to me. His arguments imply a Toony/Fluffe team, but how does that work? He hasn't actually said it and has made no move toward defending it.
Juicebox, you've claimed to have given a potion to Egan, used a hat on Toony. I know you've got shed loads of AP. You did something else last night though. Want to fess up?.
I could easily see them being partners with Toony or NQT.Both of those teams seem nuts to me.
I'm voting Toony or juicebox here then.I'm cool with voting Juicebox.
Did anyone receive a 1-shot Watch last night?I did. It cost 2AP right?
Knightwing could just have been bussed with the actual kill target.Yeah, me.
At this point, I think that Fluffe is one of the more likely candidates for scum. They've been low activity all game, and while some of that can be attributed to newness, I think that they've been trying to lay low to avoid attracting attention. They also haven't been as forthright with their night actions. They're the only one who didn't claim anything they did on N1. I could easily see them being partners with Toony or NQT.HUH
I'm not really sure what's going on.I could easily see them being partners with Toony or NQT.Both of those teams seem nuts to me.
NQT just went after Fluffe. ToonyMan went after Fluffe before. I don't see it.
I'm not really sure what's going on.It's gotta be NQT/juicebox.
I don't understand why Fluffe can't be mafia still. Isn't it a thunderdome between Fluffe and NQT?It's not that he can't, it's that I don't see who he could be paired with at all.
Toony quickly presses backspace on their keyboard repeatedlyI honestly think I have scum fully PoEd now but it's okay, I'll wait for you.
O-oh, y-yeah, that b-big post? It's been delayed. Maybe tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow.
I think I've seen all the tells I'd want at this point so I'll claim the third and final thing I did last night: I unlocked Mikey and bussed myself with Knightwing. Why Knightwing? Well, it's something I'll probably have to explain in the future. Now I have two turtles. Two more to go.
Mafia know I dodged their kill, and I refrained from claiming because I wanted to see players post a bit. In my opinion Max and Jim look quite clueless about what is going on, because they're examining between all players that could be scum. NQT seems pretty clueless as well, but who can say. Juicebox I don't really see anything either way. However, Fluffe is at my throat. Maybe it's because I called him always scum, but I think deep down he knows I gave him the slip. That's my impression. Who's he with though? Fluffe/NQT seems odd so it's probably Fluffe/Juicebox.
Toony quickly presses backspace on their keyboard repeatedly
O-oh, y-yeah, that b-big post? It's been delayed. Maybe tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow.
At this point, I think that Fluffe is one of the more likely candidates for scum. They've been low activity all game, and while some of that can be attributed to newness, I think that they've been trying to lay low to avoid attracting attention. They also haven't been as forthright with their night actions. They're the only one who didn't claim anything they did on N1. I could easily see them being partners with Toony or NQT.I did claim what I did N1 you just missed it.
I didnt really see the point in claiming an action, all I did last night is use an action that lets me commute so I dont get murdered during the night I aint got any actual useful information to give.
Mafia know I dodged their kill, and I refrained from claiming because I wanted to see players post a bit. In my opinion Max and Jim look quite clueless about what is going on, because they're examining between all players that could be scum. NQT seems pretty clueless as well, but who can say. Juicebox I don't really see anything either way. However, Fluffe is at my throat. Maybe it's because I called him always scum, but I think deep down he knows I gave him the slip. That's my impression. Who's he with though? Fluffe/NQT seems odd so it's probably Fluffe/Juicebox.As its already been established this makes 0 sense I tried to hide under a pot last night I am going after you because of the inspect shenanigans day 2 and because YOU AND JUICEBOX ARE THE ONLY TWO REALISTIC OPTIONS (in my mind atleast) granted maybe im being a moron and missing some very obvious context/clues cause ill admit with exams coming up I have been more distracted with school than focusing on mafia game shenaniganry buttttt If its not you and juicebox then that means its NQT and juicebox and that simply does not make as much sense to me as it being you and him instead again if you have any evidence that proves 100% that it cant be you and him that I missed please show it so I can feel like a idiot.
Can you drop a few more hints about what the ability is so that A_Curious_Cat can positively identify it? Because it costing 2 AP could be a lucky guess maybe.It's just a one-shot action I can use at night. The 2 AP cost is the only way I can really prove I have it besides listing the description verbatim. Or you know, nobody else claiming they have it. But I don't think anybody will.
Any other stunning revelations people want to add before we're as informed as we're going to get before making a decision?JIM MAD
WHEN BIG POSTWhen I finish it.
As its already been established this makes 0 sense I tried to hide under a pot last night I am going after you because of the inspect shenanigans day 2 and because YOU AND JUICEBOX ARE THE ONLY TWO REALISTIC OPTIONS (in my mind atleast) granted maybe im being a moron and missing some very obvious context/clues cause ill admit with exams coming up I have been more distracted with school than focusing on mafia game shenaniganry buttttt If its not you and juicebox then that means its NQT and juicebox and that simply does not make as much sense to me as it being you and him instead again if you have any evidence that proves 100% that it cant be you and him that I missed please show it so I can feel like a idiot.Oh Fluffe Fluffe, sweet scummy Fluffe. I can't be mafia. Doesn't that make you angry? Poof, outplayed doge dog.
Oh Fluffe Fluffe, sweet scummy Fluffe. I can't be mafia. Doesn't that make you angry? Poof, outplayed doge dog.No not at all infact if you could prove your not mafia that would make my overall stress about this be way less.
So which one of you framed me, you or NQT?
Did anyone receive a 1-shot Watch last night?I did. It cost 2AP right?
Can you drop a few more hints about what the ability is so that A_Curious_Cat can positively identify it? Because it costing 2 AP could be a lucky guess maybe.It's just a one-shot action I can use at night. The 2 AP cost is the only way I can really prove I have it besides listing the description verbatim. Or you know, nobody else claiming they have it. But I don't think anybody will.
Did anyone receive a 1-shot Watch last night?I did. It cost 2AP right?Can you drop a few more hints about what the ability is so that A_Curious_Cat can positively identify it? Because it costing 2 AP could be a lucky guess maybe.It's just a one-shot action I can use at night. The 2 AP cost is the only way I can really prove I have it besides listing the description verbatim. Or you know, nobody else claiming they have it. But I don't think anybody will.
Y'know... I'm not even sure what it does! Let me ask wuba...
I feel like notquitethere keeps refusing to think in terms of teams, which is pretty scummy to me. His arguments imply a Toony/Fluffe team, but how does that work? He hasn't actually said it and has made no move toward defending it.You're right I haven't thought much in terms of teams. I'm keeping an open mind about possibilities as I know from bitter experience how wrong things go when you run off on shaky assumptions. We only know there might be two teams based on 1. Lenglon (actual verified scum) and 2. Jim's guess about the theme of the game being 2x2x2x2.
I might have something interesting to say later but for [REDACTED] reasons, maybe not. I'm waiting on a message from the mod, who is also probably asleep.
Oh, right. I guess I should explain the watch since I'm just assuming people know what that means.Did anyone receive a 1-shot Watch last night?I did. It cost 2AP right?Can you drop a few more hints about what the ability is so that A_Curious_Cat can positively identify it? Because it costing 2 AP could be a lucky guess maybe.It's just a one-shot action I can use at night. The 2 AP cost is the only way I can really prove I have it besides listing the description verbatim. Or you know, nobody else claiming they have it. But I don't think anybody will.
Y'know... I'm not even sure what it does! Let me ask wuba...
Well Fluffe, I'm not mafia unless you think I had a partner target me to kill Knightwing. That would probably work. I guess I can be mafia after all. That's the only thing I can think Toony think of.Oh Fluffe Fluffe, sweet scummy Fluffe. I can't be mafia. Doesn't that make you angry? Poof, outplayed doge dog.No not at all infact if you could prove your not mafia that would make my overall stress about this be way less.
So which one of you framed me, you or NQT?
Im incapable of framing anyone so not me. Also I already said what my actions are and I'm not even one of the guys who originally accused you of being mafia think Toony think!
To be crystal clear, Toony, are you claiming you tracked Fluffe and that's all you did to Fluffe?I claimed at day start NQT. The facts have been here the entire day. I would think your next actions over very carefully. You probably won't, because you have been acting rash and impulsive this whole game without thinking like a bumbling oaf, but still...I strongly recommend thinking over your next actions before making any accusations.
You and Fluffe could be on rival scum teams, that's still a possibility. The scum teams would want to take each other out ASAP.Chill. And you're wrong, on multiple fronts. You need to take a biiiiig deep breath.
AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE A FRAME-ARTIST
AND WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY YOU PICKED KNIGHTWING AS YOUR FALL GUY
So stop being slippery and start talking straight
So many inspects holy shit
Sorry, I am being pretty antagonistic. Maybe it's the amount of detectives in the building.
@NQT:That doesn't help your case! Nobody has claimed to track you. And I've seen you target two different people in this game (myself D1, Fluffe D2) so I don't think this is true.
You're right, Master Toony's Ninja Headband is untraceable.
Wait, like, does that mean Fluffe is a liar?I'm sorry that big blocks of text are difficult to read. Let me summarise my claims again:
Toony does seem to want to appear like they're a bad guy feeling salty about the setup being too townsided:Using my apology to attack me is messed up.
Using my apology to attack me is messed up.Well I appreciate the apology, but you have to see why my eyebrows raised at that second part.
Pff, what? I targeted Hector with the headband and inspected you N1. On N2 I technically targeted myself, Knightwing, Fluffe, and Juicebox with Fluffe being the headband.This just raises more questions than it answers. This is all a bit besides the point, you claiming to have one untraceable action doesn't change anything of what I said before, it just makes you look worse.
Oh, right. I guess I should explain the watch since I'm just assuming people know what that means.Did anyone receive a 1-shot Watch last night?I did. It cost 2AP right?Can you drop a few more hints about what the ability is so that A_Curious_Cat can positively identify it? Because it costing 2 AP could be a lucky guess maybe.It's just a one-shot action I can use at night. The 2 AP cost is the only way I can really prove I have it besides listing the description verbatim. Or you know, nobody else claiming they have it. But I don't think anybody will.
Y'know... I'm not even sure what it does! Let me ask wuba...
It's like tracking, but in reverse. I can see whoever visited my target.
Jim/Max/Curious Cat/Egan: I'd like your input on Toony and Fluffe here.Looking it over with fresh eyes this morning, I think your case makes sense. I don't even believe that there was a bus, just like I don't believe there was a frame. I already know it's possible for abilities to steal something the target would have received.
Any other stunning revelations people want to add before we're as informed as we're going to get before making a decision?JIM MAD
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Jim... you said you got [REDACTED] from looking at Curious Cat... what were you hoping to find out?
Jim/Max/Curious Cat/Egan: I'd like your input on Toony and Fluffe here.
Role Name:
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Alignment:
Mafia
Win Condition:
You win when your team outnumbers or equals the remaining Players, and there are no ways to stop your team.
Abilities:
(Innate) Turtle Power: You may Choose a new Ability at the start of each Night. You may automatically use that Ability on a Player of your Choice. Anytime a Turtle Ability lists an X, it is equal to the number of Turtle Abilities you are using.
Tags: Turtle, Evolve
{AP∞} (Night) Michelangelo [target x(2-X)]: Mikey mixes up your targets, causing other Player’s Actions performing on the target(s) to be performed on the next target instead, until all targets have been mixed up (The Action performed on the last target are instead performed on the first target.)
Tags: Turtle, Bus
{AP∞} (Night) Donatello [target]: Donnie uses his intellect and a few handy gadgets to get some intel on the target. You can Choose X of the following and Learn it (You may Choose an option multiple times): The target’s alignment, one of the target’s Action performed this Phase, one of the target’s Abilities, one of the target’s target(s).
Tags: Turtle, Learn, Inspect
{AP∞} (Night) Raphael [target/self]: Raph Blocks X Actions from the target, starting with the lowest cost.
Tags: Turtle, Block
{AP∞} (Night) Leonardo [target]: Leo helps lead the target, granting them X additional Action Points during the next Night Phase.
Tags: Turtle, Motivate
{AP3} (Night) Ninja Headband [target]: It has a metal plate with a leaf on it. You discreetly Track your target! This is one of TricMagic’s Hats.
Tags: Hat, Track
{AP2} (1-Shot, Night) Watch [target]: You Watch the target, Learning the Players that performed Actions on the target.
Tags: Watch, Learn
This was a fun game.For one of us.
I think the game also continues if I protect NQT instead if Egan N3, unless NQT got super killed tooThey both got superkilled
GG, good job Jim and Max.♡Jimax♡
I think the game also continues if I protect NQT instead if Egan N3, unless NQT got super killed tooSadly, no. The only other possibility was ACC BUSSING NQT and Egan, which is pretty wild to think about.
Damn. That was really something. Not sure if I’ll play again. That took way too much of my time…This was a much bigger and more active game than a more normal game.
I was just reviewing Maf 2's chat, and I'm A) happy that my slip really wasn't caught by anyoneYou were scum hunting hard and asking too many questions so I thought you were most likely to be town didnt expect ya to actually be mafia
but also B) confused why fluffe wanted me dead.
I didn’t like medium.
Also, nerf Mass Jimnosis, too op
Also, nerf Mass Jimnosis, too opSpoiler: Meanwhile, in Dead Chat... (click to show/hide)
Good lesson to be more paranoid I guess. My gut said Jim and Max weren't posting enough for town. But my logic brain said they couldn't all be scum.I tried to tell you...
But, somehow, they could. That's too many scum Web, too many god damn mafia in the mafia. We killed mafia three cycles in a row and still lost.
My role was fun, it was interesting space to have a selfish investigative role that stole other info, but it was too stressful being given mod info and worrying about saying too much and getting modkilled.
We killed mafia three cycles in a row and still lost.
My role, including my manifested role, was perfect.Same for me
I'm just terrible at daygame, which attracted too much attention.
You were just a victim of opportunity, you didn't do anything really wrong. I needed the lynch to be *not FoU* and you made a single bad post during the crucial final hours. So I started a wagon on you. Then when town-lenglon would have bailed off you because the vote pattern was bad the alternate lynch was my scumbuddy. So I made up some BS to keep the lynch on you and called it a day.My role, including my manifested role, was perfect.Same for me
I'm just terrible at daygame, which attracted too much attention.
Read your role Knightwing, you don't get to claim credit this time around. You were the Crowned one! (But Mafia had the high ground.)I didn’t like medium.
MVP of the game goes to…
Me.
Also, nerf Mass Jimnosis, too op
I’m telling you, Jim used his Jimnosis on me. The day part wasn’t there before.You don't notice Aizen is the bad guy, you did notice Jim was the bad guy. Take your licks and move on with new knowledge of How to read your BYOR..
He’s like Aizen