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Dwarf Fortress => DF Community Games & Stories => Topic started by: Salmeuk on April 04, 2023, 01:08:56 am

Title: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on April 04, 2023, 01:08:56 am
rough draft so please leave comments or suggestions, or post your own playtests in this thread if you desire to join in.

The goal of this mode is to give a series of tasks to the players, giving DF some context, loosely modeled on Against the Storm.

these generators should be used:

https://perchance.org/4hqt7o9ngl
https://perchance.org/5zv1ana691

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Every year, the player must offer randomized tribute to the queen, who waits patiently back at the Mountainhome for her chosen goods. Think of this like a meta noble mandate. In return, she provides you with a randomized selection of 'blueprints' of workshops and other buildings, or allowances for increases population, or reputation.

The final goal is to reach 30 reputation. This will take at least 4 years of tribute rewards, but likely more. You lose if you reach an arbitrary 20 impatience.

You start the game by drawing three starting workshops using the above generator. Draw 3, pick 1. You always start with the still and the trade depot. All remaining workshops must be earned through the tribute mechanic.

At the start of the game and at every Autumn trade meeting thereafter, you select 5 tribute goals from 8 offered. Tribute Goals are randomized requests for specific objects or materials. Each Goal has a request amount and a targeted object or base material. Goals also come with 'bonus objectives' which grant an additional bonus if they are fullfilled. The usual format is "object type, object material".

To fullfill a tribute, the requested goods must be delivered to the dwarven traders each autumn event. Failure is punished by the Queen's impatience rising by 3pts. 

Every successful tribute you can select whether to:

 decrease impatience by 1pt
 draw a new workshop or building (draw 3 pick 1)
 raise popcap by 5
 increase reputation by 1pt

Thus pop cap slowly grows as you complete tribute. Children locked at 10%. Starting popcap is 10.

The patience of the Queen is also related to various traumatic events that might occur during play. The following events increase the Queen's impatience:

Death or Unrecoverable Insanity of a Citizen: 1 pt
Loss of Trading Caravan: 4pt
Theft of an Artifact: 1pt
Theft of a Child: 3pt
Failure of a Noble's Mandate: 1pt
Failure of a Tribute Goal: 3pt

Positive events, deemed valuable to the efforts of the Mountainhome, are awarded with an increase in the Settlement's reputation:

killing / capturing forgotten beast: 2pt
killing / capturing titan: 2pt
killing / capturing megabeast: 1pt
driving away a siege (not just surviving until they leave): 3pt
producing an Artifact object: 1pt
Offering 10k of goods to dwarven caravan: 1pt

Battle deaths during sieges dont count (sacrifice impresses the queen).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cavern Breach Rule:

When breaching each cavern layer for the first time (including the magma sea), a special draw of tribute will occur (draw 2 objectives, keep 1). This randomized tribute must be sacrificed as soon as possible - smashing, magma burning, throwing off a tall cliff into an inaccessible pit are all acceptable.

Failure to meet this tribute demand in three in-game months results in the queen's impatience raising by 3. Success grants you the usual tribute reward.

As the years pass, the queens demands grow. This will be arbitrary increase in lower bound (+10) and upper bound (+50) of the tribute demands for this first round of testing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, and for added challenge, you embark with only a pick and an axe. No anvil.

(https://i.imgur.com/2p7F0LX.png)

I will be posting test journals as I have time  :D
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on April 04, 2023, 01:09:31 am
First playthrough notes

Workshop draws [brackets are selections]:

the [Stoneworker's workshop], the Magma kiln or the Jeweler's workshop
Of course the stoneworkers. very important to have furniture and pots.

the Magma smelter, the Magma forge or the [Farmer's workshop]
Between the smelter and the farmers.... I went for potential to harvest thread from plants.

the Tanner's shop, the [Magma smelter] or the Leather works
third draw is bad, honestly, but at least i got a second shot at the smelter. could be useful later

Tribute Draws:

discarded:
You must collect 21 cloth. -2 impatience awarded for giant cave spider silk.
You must collect 14 moonstone (or equivalent rarity) cut gemstones. -1 impatience awarded for exact fullfillment.
You must craft 12 Mail Shirts. Random workshop draw awarded for bizmuth bronze.

selected:
You must collect 46 plants. Random workshop draw awarded for 2x fullfillment.
You must collect 20 containers of drink. -2 impatience awarded for 2x fullfillment.
You must collect 30 stone boulders. -2 impatience awarded for Stibnite.
You must craft 12 Animal trap. +5 popcap awarded for Desert lime wood or Sandstone.
You must craft 15 Hatch cover. -2 impatience awarded for Walnut wood or copper.

This tribute draw seems fairly easy, which is why i chose it. knowing how DF surprises you, and also considering that the first year only gives you two seasons to prepare the above tributes, it seems fair to keep things simple at first.

also do note that I drew all 8 options and selected after review. This is not sequential selection, unlike the workshop draws which must be chosen one by one. though I might change this later, it seems too difficult or punishing right now.

(https://i.imgur.com/lBNj86t.png)

Taiga forests to the west, with a cold grassland on the eastern hillside. A thin, frozen stream bends and turns through the hillside, while the ground is covered in thick snow. This particular settlement span two biomes and is nearby all other races. temperature is cold despite the latitude - this world has strangely chilly tropics.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unfortunate placement of the dwarven wagon. Let us pray the ice holds until we unpack.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: brewer bob on April 04, 2023, 02:42:56 am
Looking like an interesting challenge, so PTW.

Quote from: Salmeuk on April 04, 2023, 01:09:31 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unfortunate placement of the dwarven wagon. Let us pray the ice holds until we unpack.

"You sure this is a good place to park the wagon, Urist?"

"Yeah, it's basically like a road. A slippery one maybe, but easy to follow. Even ol' Thob won't get lost following it."

"Say, did you hear that cracking sound?"

(I've lost several forts when this happens and the ice thaws as soon as the game is unpaused.)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on April 04, 2023, 03:36:36 am
This sounds pretty cool I to shall PTW.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on April 07, 2023, 10:22:05 pm
first playtest cont

These first two seasons were important. The Queen demanded simple items. Most difficult would be the collection of enough plants and pots of drink to earn the bonus rewards - an extra random workshop draw could make or break the following year. Less concerning were the stone and furniture rewards.

Despite the constant blizzards, the dwarves strove to harvest wild plants. Extra effort was required to dig through the layers of snow and ice.

Two mid-sized hallways were dug, running north south, to become the basis of the surface fortress. A bridge was installed over the frozen stream and the dwarves were ordered not to risk walking across the ice.

A carpenter's shop was built, and we ordered some barr - WAIT. We do not have proper allowance from the Queen to build such things! A bit too easy to fall into old habits.

Then, concern was raised. How exactly were we supposed to craft pots? That was the task of the Stonecrafter, not the Stoneworker. Uh oh.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By the rules of the metagame I was pretty screwed. One final option was possible - dig to the cavern and trigger the special request. Could lead to disaster but hey - I'm here to lose and learn. 

but still, the pressing issue of nothing to drink... no way to heat up the snow... we were mistaken - this place remains frozen year-round.... were we to die like this?

yes. yes we were. RIP Hammerplanted.

(https://i.imgur.com/49BMft9.png)


Ok ok so that sucked. I took a risky start without guaranteed water and, low and behold, it did me in.

=================

second playtest

workshop draws:
the Fishery, the Clothier's shop or the [Butcher's shop]
the Dyer's shop, the [Smelter] or the Mechanic's workshop
the Kitchen, the Ashery or the [Farmer's workshop]
( these starting workshop draws suck so the caverns will be tempting)


discarded:
You must craft 21 Bed. Random workshop draw awarded for Fungiwood wood or wood.
You must craft 15 Gauntlets. -2 impatience awarded for bronze.
You must collect 24 cloth. Random workshop draw awarded for giant cave spider silk.

selected:
You must collect 18 variscite (or ornamental) cut gemstones. Random workshop draw awarded for exact fullfillment.
You must collect 5 tanzanite (or semi-precious) cut gemstones. -1 impatience awarded for exact fullfillment.
You must collect 29 stone boulders. +5 popcap awarded for Mudstone.
You must collect 28 meat. -2 impatience awarded for 2x fullfillment.
You must collect 49 wood. -1 impatience awarded for Candlenut.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On the northern shores of a woodland lake, up against the craggy mountains, the dwarves settled. This fortress would become known as Copperskies for the brilliant sunsets. A thin bridge led from the trees into the lakeside cliffs, where the dwarves carved halls of limestone, claystone, and rock salt.

(https://i.imgur.com/QZrodHc.png)

Due to my laziness, this test will get an extra two seasons with the first tribute delivery expected next year. I will not allow myself to trade with the autumn caravan when it comes this first half-year.

Boars were spotted on the far side of the lake. Meat!

(https://i.imgur.com/RQUYWSY.png)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yet, we had better focus on digging to the cavern to risk for a new workshop. The fortress was hamstrung without the ability to craft furniture...

(https://i.imgur.com/gBW0Rnk.png)

These first two seasons the dwarves ate raw vegetables, drank lakewater and slept in rough rock rooms. The wooden portion of the tributes was easily secured and left to await next year's offering.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Success! The miner broke into a vein of Pink Garnet, a semi-precious gemstone that will fullfill the second tribute goal.

Quickly following that, the first cavern was discovered, triggering a special draw of two tribute goals:

You must collect 49 stone boulders. -1 impatience awarded for Phyllite.
You must collect 30 chrysocolla (or equivalent rarity) cut gemstones. -1 impatience awarded for exact fullfillment.

Ah. The stone should be easy enough, however, I had only one season from 5th Sandstone (Mid-Autumn) to fullfill this goal. The sooner I did, the sooner I would *possibly* draw some kind of useful workshop.

(https://i.imgur.com/M0OhH1m.png)

Catten the Herbalist has gone M.I.A. What. I have no idea what happened ummmm. A search was sent out, and Catten's dessicated corpse was found in a patch of Cloudberry flowers at the top of the lake cliffs. As to how he found his way up there, and what exactly happened to him... we will never know.

(https://i.imgur.com/RzF4N9J.png)

By Late Autumn we had assembled the requisite 49 stone boulders. No phyllite could be secured to gain the bonus reward. These boulders were summarily rolled into the lake as a sacrifice to the various deities. A calm was felt by the dwarves afterwards, and soon enough we were granted a choice of rewards.

Draws:
the Metalsmith's forge, the Magma smelter or the [Craftsdwarf's workshop]

Hmmmmm. Not exactly what I wanted but. Without an anvil, the forge was fairly useless, and the smelter similarly. So the craftsdwarf's shop was gained. This gives us pots and whatnot, and trade goods for next year. Still no proper furniture...

to be continued

Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on April 08, 2023, 12:54:24 am
Um, hi! So, I am very new to DF (just discovered it from the Steam release) and I'm not familiar with Against the Storm at all, but I've been having a lot of fun with DF so far and I do really like the potential this has for a unique challenge. (I won't even get to play it for awhile since I'm still experimenting with my current fortress, but...) I hope you do not mind if I summarize the challenge here to make sure I understand it correctly. And I also had a few questions.

----- Against the Storm Challenge -----

Premise: Our Ruler is a demanding one and has very particular goals for our settlement. Woe to those who defy the Monarch!

Win Condition: Amass 30 reputation with the Ruler.
Lose Condition: Drive the Ruler's impatience to 20.

Start Condition
The Monarch has graciously granted us the use of:
- The still
- The trade depot
- Three additional workshops generated via https://perchance.org/5zv1ana691 (https://perchance.org/5zv1ana691) (generate 3 times; choose one shop from each generation)
- An axe and pick are allowed, but we cannot be afforded an anvil to start.
- The initial Monarch demands (as below)
- Both reputation and impatience start at 0.
- Population cap is set to 10. Children 10%.
- Tribute goal quantity ranges from 10 to 50.

Gameplay

Tribute
The Monarch demands tribute be delivered with each autumn caravan.
- Generate 8 tribute goals via https://perchance.org/4hqt7o9ngl (https://perchance.org/4hqt7o9ngl). Select 5 of them.
- Failure to reach a tribute goal raises impatience by 3.
- Successfully reaching a tribute goal awards our choice from these options:
--- decrease impatience by 1
--- generate another workshop choice
--- raise population cap by 5
--- increase reputation by 1
- When each cavern layer (or the magma sea) is breached for the first time, generate 2 tribute goals and select 1. This tribute must be sacrificed within 3 ingame months (atom-smash, dump into magma, inaccessible pit, etc). Failure or success of these extra tribute goals rewards exactly the same as the regular annual tribute goals above.
- Each year the tribute goal quantity range rises by 10/50 (e.g. year 2 the range is 20-100, year 3 the range is 30-150, etc)

Impatience
The Ruler is not a patient creature. These events effect impatience:
- tribute goal failure (as above) = +3 impatience
- loss of a citizen to death or insanity = +1 impatience (note that battle death in a siege does not count - sacrifice is admirable)
- loss of a trading caravan = +4 impatience
- theft of an artifact = +1 impatience
- kidnapping of a child = +3 impatience
- failure to meet a regular noble mandate = +3 impatience

Reputation
Yet the Ruler can be benevolent, should we prove worthy. These events effect reputation:
- death or capture of a forgotten beast = +2 reputation
- death or capture of a titan = +2 reputation
- death or capture of a megabeast = +1 reputation
- driving off a siege (not just hiding until they leave) = +3 reputation
- producing an artifact = +1 reputation
- offering 10k of goods to the dwarven caravan = +1 reputation

---------------------------------------

Questions!!

1 - I notice the random generator for workshops may give duplicate options, e.g. a roll might be Bowyer, Bowyer, Farmer. If we get a pull like that, are we stuck with that, or may we re-generate that pull until we get 3 different options? (In theory all three could be the same, e.g. Bowyer, Bowyer, Bowyer. ouchie. heh.)

2 - On embark I see we start with an axe and pick but no anvil, which is fine. Are we allowed to bring other things? (e.g. animals, wood, stone, food, cloth). And if yes, is there a point limit or can we use default embark points? Also, we can spend the dwarf skill points at least, I assume?

3 - I see the tribute range increases by 10/50 each year, but there's no mention of the starting values. I made the assumption that the starting range is 10-50 (so then the range would increase to 20-100, then 30-150, then 40-200, and so on). Is that correct?

4 - For 'delivery of the tribute to the caravan' -- do we give the items to the caravan as a gift, or are we allowed to use the items as trade goods, so long as the caravan obtains them? (I assume we give the tribute as a gift, but felt I should check)

5 - For the tribute goals - if they request the impossible (e.g. asking for lime wood when our embark is the wrong biome for that), can we re-roll the goal, or change the type (e.g. to a type of wood that *is* available)? (I assume we're stuck with it but again figured I'd ask)

6 - Another tribute goal question - I see some goals may demand 'cut gemstones' (as you rolled in your second try here) - but we can't *cut* gemstones without the jeweler workshop... are there goals in there for 'raw gemstones' (I haven't seen any yet), or do raw gemstones count for the 'cut gemstones' goals? (this one I ask because reading your post it sounded like the cut gemstone goals you selected were achievable despite not pulling the jeweler workshop yet). Oh, and do raw/cut glass gems (or other gems like stone or bone) count if they're the correct rarity tier? (and how do I tell the rarity of other materials if they are allowed)

7 - And one more tribute goal question - what exactly does 'exact fulfillment' mean for getting the bonus reward?? Like, if it says I have to collect 8 highwood and I chop a tree and get 9... am I busted on getting the bonus? What if I already had more than 8 highwood in stock? Or am I good to get the bonus so long as I deliver exactly 8 highwood to the caravan? (Although, there's no reason to give the caravan extra, so it'd always be exact? idk) I just feel like 'exact fulfillment' might be almost impossible to track, depending on how it's defined.

---------------------------------------

Suggestions/Ideas!!

- There are rewards/penalties for creating and losing an artifact -- maybe there could also be rewards for obtaining artifacts elsewhere (e.g. raiding, snagging them off of 'visitors', etc)?

- Also perhaps some reward for destroying an enemy site (conquer/occupy, or raze to the ground)?

I'm sure there'll be more questions/ideas (I apologize in advance) but thanks for bearing with this massive post.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on April 09, 2023, 09:43:12 pm
Awesome, thanks for taking the time to read and parse the ruleset. do you mind if I steal your nicely formatted version of the rules? I have some updates in mind but I'm waiting to finish two or three playtests to confirm my thoughts. stuff like adding farms to the workshop rolls, or adding further tribute rewards such as training a certain number of legendary fighters or miners etc.

re: your questions:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1. yea just reroll. not elegant i know. I have not had much time to update these generators, but all the syntax is present to correctly prevent duplicates etc. another issue is drawing a workshop you already own - same thing, just re-roll.

2. I'm thinking of giving us some kind of very VERY harsh point buy system. Something like 5 points, with each object having a certain value. you know, to give the player decisions. I haven't had much time to think this through. any suggestions here for systems are welcome

3. again, I kinda just threw this down.  the idea is to increase the tributes over time to provide increasing challenge, since most established fortresses could EASILY produce the tribute as it currently generates. I'm having trouble finding uh good ranges that aren't stupid impossible on the first year, but retain challenge after say three years of play. So one way would be to increase the values over time by a set amount. Not sure if Perchance has this kind of feature, so as it stands it would be a straight addition to whatever number you rolled.

4. tribute as gift only. and if you miss the caravan... hmm. that would be a game breaking event honestly, as the rules stand. I think right now I would accept the player simply destroying / throwing the goods off a cliff.

5. my idea here was to provide the basic material vague and always accessible, while the 'bonus' would be something completely random and potentially inaccessible. as it stands, it seems a bit TOO inaccessible in most cases. I want to rewrite the listing of materials to take into account rarity, since you can do this pretty easily through Perchance. So something like a 2x more likely roll for certain wood types.

6. wow I hadn't realized something there, and I was playing my current test wrong in this sense. Hmm. This is interesting in the sense that the jewelers shop suddenly becomes a really really great pick, since it opens up so many of the various tribute rewards for completion. but you are correct in noting that it sort of breaks the game and forces a lot of failed tribute rewards for anyone WITHOUT the jewelers.

perhaps it should draw from two lists, raw gemstones as you said, and also cut gemstones. I will ponder this one. I also want to work in tributes requiring large gemstones, but the fact these cannot be produced on demand makes me hesitant.

I dont think glass gems should count - too easy to manufacture. and for relative rarity i just use the wiki - you could also like trade and see the value I guess.

7. Ah, exact fulfillment is a confusing term for what I meant. put more simply, you can either hit the basic request for wood, metal, or gemstones of a certain variety, OR, if you are lucky, you can try to obtain the specific material as described by the bonus reward. so a tribute requesting 50 wood could be fulfilled with any type of log, but if those 50 logs were pine logs instead, you would ALSO gain the bonus reward as written. No need to track item production (what a nightmare)

good questions. I hope to have more time this week to work on fixing up these confusions.
---------------------------------------

Quote
Suggestions/Ideas!!

- There are rewards/penalties for creating and losing an artifact -- maybe there could also be rewards for obtaining artifacts elsewhere (e.g. raiding, snagging them off of 'visitors', etc)?

- Also perhaps some reward for destroying an enemy site (conquer/occupy, or raze to the ground)?

I'm sure there'll be more questions/ideas (I apologize in advance) but thanks for bearing with this massive post.


adding rewards for successful raids, artifact thefts, is a great idea. it would give a fortress strong in military the option to use that strength to gain more reputation, rather than wait for beasts to arrive. I will do some research on the various results of raids and try to implement this

keep the ideas coming, if you got em. I actually had a moment playing with these rules, where I literally felt like I was making the same nailbiting decisions as I do when playing Against the Storm (which I pretty much played out completed a while back) and that was nice.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on April 10, 2023, 12:54:51 pm
Sure thing, you can absolutely use my writeup! I'm still refining it, as well/will continue as things are adjusted. ^_^


All right, so for 'exact fulfillment' goals, let's see if I'm following correctly:

The goal I rolled was "You must collect 25 precious fire opal (or equivalent rarity) cut gemstones. -2 impatience awarded for exact fullfillment."
- So I could fulfill this with a mixture of 25 gems of appropriate rarity/value for the base fulfillment, but if I actually managed to give them 25 fire opals (no other gems), then I'd get the bonus reward. Got it now! *thumbsup* I hadn't noticed right away that that text only appeared on gem goals (and in turn gem goals seem to be the only ones right now that mention a specific type of material in their 'base' requirement).


And, I see, the 10-50 added to tribute goals each year wasn't a range, just a flat addition. I was overcomplicating things, heh. So I'd roll a # between 10 and 50 (e.g. 27) and then add that to the goal I rolled, so if the goal was '17 wood', I'd end up with an actual goal of 17+27 = 44 wood for the second year. Then if it was third year I'd either multiply the 27 by # years, or generate that many numbers to add (e.g. third year so add 2 numbers so generated 27 and 12, goal gave me 33 stone so actual goal for third year is 33+27+12 = 72 stone)


For embark points, hm. The easiest thing to implement would probably be a point limitation, or a point limitation combined with some other 'you can't bring this' limitations. Or even another random generator giving you a list of things (besides the anvil) that you can't bring? (also limiting skill points on dwarves would be a separate limit vs the item points on what you can bring).

So for example (this is totally random and probably not balanced as you'd like) -- Say we're limited to allocating 5 skill points per dwarf (instead of the full 10/dwarf), and no skill can be higher than 3 points, or similar. And then for items to bring along, maybe we can bring 500 points of gear/animals (instead of the full 1500-ish points), with anvils (and possibly other things) not being allowed -- a random generator here might tell us 'no animals allowed, and no wood logs' -- though in that case we'd still get the random wagon animals and the 3 logs from the wagon so idk. Of course cheesing the point system to actually get more starting barrels (to get around not pulling a carpenter workshop for awhile) is pretty easy... but starting out with no food/drink/etc at all is also super rough, hm.


Just for fun I've generated a couple start scenarios, lol. The first one I generated felt like near instant death haha. ALL my workshop pulls were useless (e.g. tier 2-3 stuff where I had no way to make input materials - forge without smelter, leatherworks without tanner or tanner without butcher, etc). Second and third were a little better - I got craftsdwarf workshop on both of those so at least pots were available as a substitute for barrels.

And yeah tribute goals seemed tough first year. I haven't had a test yet that had all-achievable goals on paper. Most had at least 2 tribute goals that were unachievable (that's 2 out of the 5 kept), so (barring diving headfirst for the caverns and hoping for a lucky pull) that starts us off at a 6-impatience deficit with the first caravan (almost 1/3 of the lose scenario) even if everything else goes well... which is definitely challenging! It's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'll think on it.
- Maybe for the initial goals, generate 8 but only pick 3, or 4 - still pick 5 every time after that. Though fewer goals also means fewer rewards possible to help with the *next* goals...
- Maybe keep goals as-is but just reducing the impatience penalty for missed goals the first year to 2, or even 1...

Another idea might be to come up with some way to generate additional goals/rewards in addition to hitting the caverns, so we're not SOL if we hit some impossible condition and already hit all caverns + magma sea and got bad pulls for all of them, etc. Not sure if that would make things too easy though.

Anyway! Off to generate a few more random starts and see what sort of things pop up. It's great fun putting the goals and workshop pulls together to see what's achievable, and using those to indicate what sort of biome/embark I'd look for to give myself the best chance to fulfill them.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on April 12, 2023, 07:27:02 pm
great feedback, again! reply in spoiler

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

========

Against the Storm test 2, post 2: Copperskies

On the 25th of Moonstone, the lake froze over.

(https://i.imgur.com/4rrvKlR.png)
Unless Tarn implements surprise Ice Fishing, this was important to note in case of fish tribute requests.

(https://i.imgur.com/HgdPn8o.png)

A week later, our still began operation, brewing prickle berries and storing the resulting wine in limestone pots. Just in the nick of time! I was getting worried Copperskies was about to suffer the same fate as the first playtest.

We found tetrahedrite, and kaolinite (very important!) but the stone lacked gems.

(https://i.imgur.com/nfEe7f6.png)

The tributes as of Spring. We still needed 15 ornamental gemstones and also meat... the animals would be slaughtered come autumn. The queen's impatience will force our hand.

(https://i.imgur.com/O89N9lp.png)

More furious digging. Our miner had become expert in these two seasons.

TEST NOTES: should I add farms to the workshop draws? lock them away? what if they were included with carpenters, crafters, stoneworkers, etc, as 2x more than common rolls?

(https://i.imgur.com/m9EwrbA.png)

At mid-spring, the miner found further gems, and we were elated to learn we had finally fullfilled the first wave of tribute requests, with a season and a half to spare.

(https://i.imgur.com/BnKK9l5.png)

Besides churning out trade goods, the fortress had little else to do. The summer was dedicated to smoothing the halls. The effort was rewarding, and soon the natural limestone corridors glinted like pearl. Viewing the great blazing sunsets from the bridge was a favorite evening activity of the dwarves.

(https://i.imgur.com/rQgdlOC.png)

===

(https://i.imgur.com/kVmeLov.png)

TEST NOTES: i need to add cheese for tribute requests. cheeeeeseeeee

the traders arrived. we slaughtered the goat and yak and brought this meat to the depot, along with the stone, wood,  and gems. Then, an unforseen problem.

"Why did the queen request such heavy items? We have no capacity to haul this back."

(https://i.imgur.com/zWNtJ4M.png)

regardless, we loaded the meat gems and some of the wood. Work needed to be quick since the traders would only stay a while. Figurines and rings and mugs were brought, just enough to purchase one of the steel anvils. GLORIOUS. now I just needed to actually learn to build the forges.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The items that were untradeable were sacrificed to the lake gods as before.

A week later, the queen's messenger arrived, with terrible news. We foolishly failed to provide CUT gems, and our rough stones were unrecognizeable and worthless. The other tributes were successful, but with the unexpected failure of two of the tributes we were at a loss and the Queen's impatience would grow.

I decided to make things interesting and force gem tributes to be cut gems only.

First Year's Tribute results:

You must collect 18 variscite (or ornamental) cut gemstones. Random workshop draw awarded for exact fullfillment.
Failed. must cut gems
You must collect 5 tanzanite (or semi-precious) cut gemstones. -1 impatience awarded for exact fullfillment.
Failed. must cut gems
You must collect 29 stone boulders. +5 popcap awarded for Mudstone.
too heavy for caravan. 30 stones sacrificed.
You must collect 28 meat. -2 impatience awarded for 2x fullfillment.
30+ meat offered, but no bonus award.
You must collect 49 wood. -1 impatience awarded for Candlenut.
 ~20 wood offered. remaining sacrificed.

Impatience rises by 4pt due to failed tribute. 3 rewards may be chosen. I will chose:

three workshop draws. the fortress needs furniture, damnit!


draw 1: the Bowyer's workshop, the Smelter or the [Fishery]
hmmmm. fishery or smelter?? ooof I think i will go fishery since I still lack the wood burner, thus lacking fuel, and would much prefer the magma smelter anyways.
draw 2: the Magma glass furnace, the Wood furnace or the [Magma forge]
ffff maybe I SHOULD have gone furnace. this is a tough choice, since sand is present, all three could be very useful in the following years. I will go Magma Forge and pray for another smelter draw.
draw 3: the [Magma glass furnace], the jeweler's workshop or the Metalsmith's forge
here I went for the glass furnace, for furniture. now we just need bags (no clothier. yet.)

seems like, with these picks, I just consigned the dwarves to digging straight for the magma sea. And likely finding and triggering both "cavern events" in the process.

at least we have fish now .

Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on April 13, 2023, 02:57:25 am
Quote from: Salmeuk on April 12, 2023, 07:27:02 pm
TEST NOTES: should I add farms to the workshop draws? lock them away? what if they were included with carpenters, crafters, stoneworkers, etc, as 2x more than common rolls?[/b]
Might want to keep that one as free to keep from killing a fort early because of a bad workshop roll.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on April 13, 2023, 11:58:00 am
Gotta say, one thing I really like about this challenge idea is that it definitely guides you straight into learning more about the game (e.g. unusual materials that you maybe wouldn't usually make things from, but are still possible). For example on one of my test rolls I thought it'd be awful because I only got one 'achievable' tribute goal... but then after some wiki'ing around I realized... I can make pots from glass! (and I had magma glass furnace as a workshop pick option). And there was something else I could make out of glass too that I hadn't realized. Suddenly, I had three 'achievable' goals instead of one! xD Maybe that's not such a big deal for old hands at the game, but for me it's definitely making me look at things I hadn't thought to look at before.

I did have to laugh when I rolled a tribute goal that said "get 27 anvils, bonus for wood or silver" xDD I was like "impossible? let me count the ways..."

RE dwarf skill points at embark - on my part (on a non-challenge embark) I like to spend points on harder/slower to train things (or things I don't like training/don't know how to train) like Tactician or Engraver, and to set up a manager/broker with Appraiser/Judge of Intent, etc. So mostly social-style skills, some combat like Shield User sometimes. xD But yeah I don't use it to start up with 'easier' skills like Miner or Cook, etc. How that works into your vision for the challenge, I don't know. Certainly, disallowing or reducing skill points would make things harder but not majorly harder, so if you wanted to get rid of them it wouldn't break anything I believe. (though, I really don't know how/if it's even possible to train Judge of Intent, I think that's my biggest impact from this change, but all that'd mean is hoping for a migrant with it.)

At any rate, if you implement the 'embark packages' random draws, that'll be covered one way or the other so no worries.

RE adding farms to workshop draws. Hm. I mean, we already can't even get seeds unless we (a) bring them on embark, or (b) can get them from the Still (req barrel or pot), or (c) wait for dwarves to eat stuff and leave seeds behind (which, okay that's probably the main way it'll happen in this challenge heh). Plus, seeds without bags will get annoying fast haha. It's a very slow but reliable food source (esp if we can't jumpstart Planter skill on embark, and of course fertilizing is straight out for years most likely). On the other hand I can see where it might make some plant/fruit tribute goals easier. Hrm. I think I am still personally leaning towards allowing at least some 'free' farms but if you're feeling like they make things too easy, could restrict the size? e.g. maybe to start you can only have 3 squares of farm, and then the limit is increased if you draw certain workshops, or... well that might be getting too complicated. Adding extra farm space directly to the workshop draws (3 more squares per draw?) might be the simplest and most straightforward way if you wanted to restrict farming (with or without starting 'free' farms). Or if you don't want to make it a workshop draw, it could be another option in the tribute rewards (the main rewards not the bonus ones) so people who don't want/need to farm could just ignore that option (so they could choose pop cap, lower impatience, higher rep, workshop draw, or more farm space). I kinda like that idea.

I'd agree on choosing all tribute rewards before rolling random ones.

I'd also agree that inaccessibly dumping/smashing tribute goals counts if you can't deliver it to the trade caravan due to weight. That method is already established for the cavern goals anyway so it's not really extra complexity. And it's generally favorable to give as much as possible to the caravan to increase wealth, so destroying it instead isn't an OP alternative.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on April 26, 2023, 11:06:21 pm
All right, so... I might owe you an apology, because I got all starry-eyed at perchance and kinda frankensteined your generators together as an excuse to learn a bunch more stuff about it. *sweatdrop*

Anyway, I got it to the point where I think I have all the original stuff that you talked about (plus a bit extra from my own fevered brain) so I figured I'd better share it and see if there's anything in there that'd be useful to you.

https://perchance.org/studqkotec (https://perchance.org/studqkotec)

Absolutely feel free to cannibalize anything, or poke holes in it, or use it or ignore it or whatever. If there's anything you're interested in me explaining why I did x or y thing, or how z statement works, or stuff you'd like me to research or add (or remove) or anything, just let me know, heh ^_^' This was basically just for my own use/convenience/testing, and the fun of digging into a new thing. I'm a code-dwarf! Let's hope I didn't dig too deep...
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on April 29, 2023, 09:27:07 pm
If you'd like me to do this in a different thread please just let me know!

Well... I got impatient trying to dig out the pillar in my current fortress (never even hit 'candy' yet...) and wanted to try this out. I think for my next learning curve I shall try... a volcano, too. If I can find one I like. xD But first! Generating embark workshops and goals. (Also gonna use my frankensteined generator, just to test it out more.)

Goal and Workshop options:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Workshop Choices (in order): Farmer, Magma Kiln, Magma Forge
Definitely gotta get a volcano now! And some clay hopefully.

Three Tribute Goals for first Autumn caravan:
Gonna look for a Temperate zone for those trees. Hope I don't regret not taking the 10-logs one, but I wanted that -2 impatience chance.

Since random "Embark Packages" haven't been implemented yet, I'm just going to limit things on this test embark like so:

Welcome to Thadar Satheth, the "Planet of Hurricanes", year 100. Somewhere in this world, the lady roc Thran roams the skies. This is the Age of Legends.

This is our site: In the middle of The Outrageous Prairie, a peninsula off of the Obscure Land, with humans but a stone's throw away... We have claimed the volcano The Brushed Torches for our good King Ase Omsoswarul of The Entangled Iron; may his reign never cease (and may his demands remain light).
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102054077933826129/image.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102053596805218344/image.png)
Spoiler: This is Fine (click to show/hide)

Our settlement is Zoluth Sidos, "The Combat of Buttons", and we are Usenmabdug, "The Helpful Ales". Strike the Earth!
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102074991807299635/image.png)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on April 29, 2023, 11:30:06 pm
An interesting start....

Spoiler: The Dwarves (click to show/hide)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102078545120989275/image.png)
I did not expect there to be snow!!

Surveying our resources....

There are several kinds of clay here, including fire clay! Promising. There is also some exposed white sand, should we need it.

Unfortunately, both wood tribute bonuses are already forfeit. We have oak, walnut, and maple. Plum, persimmon, and pecan. We even have highwood. But nothing the King had expressed a preference for. Fortunately there is a nice variety of forage-able plants, including hemp for fiber. Although... peas, garlic, soybean, rhubarb... I don't think those are farmable OR brewable. Oi. Kaniwa and white millet might be ok once I can get a quern.

And the milk we brought... is FROZEN. Oh dear.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on April 30, 2023, 09:50:40 pm
Spoiler: Fort at End of Spring Year 1 (click to show/hide)
It's a mess, but it's home and most things are inside. Food and drink started out rough, but I decided to allow myself 6 farming squares and I am using them to grow rhubarb (for food - can't cook it if I want seeds, but I don't have a kitchen anyway), and raspberries (brought on embark, for drink). We also eat cheese. The dwarves are surprisingly content at the moment.

But there are thieves about; fortunately they didn't take anything too important.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102292161891926106/image.png)

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102294408273076254/image.png)
And we filled up on migrants! No useful skills right now but... Tobul and Mafol are married. Tosid left 2 lovers behind, but brought along a baby alpaca and baby horse.

Spoiler: Oops (click to show/hide)
Tosid had a bit of an accident with magma. Sorry Tosid, I thought diagonal fortifications would work. >_< But hey we have some magma for the kilns now, so your sacrifice was not in vain. (The weird thing is, Tosid escaped the hole with just a burnt finger... and then he took a couple steps and melted into ash. Just him. All his clothes were fine, not 'worn' or burnt at all. Poor dude. And I can't make memorial slabs yet either. Please don't haunt me, Tosid, I'm doing my best!)

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102399471125532762/image.png)
Tosid's replacement. A steel axe, and a more competent woodcutter! He also left behind his entire family and children but brought his pet baby chicken. Priorities!

And now the moment of truth - the King's caravan has arrived! They seem impressed so far. As a note for next year: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102395809087103036/image.png)
ooo I think ceramic pots and jars might count for tools there.

After much haggling I was able to buy enough weight off of the caravan (mostly by buying a couple animals I don't need but oh well I have cages now). After that, the caravan was able to accept my gifted tribute of 22 plants (all rhubarb) -- fulfilling the bonus goal for plants -- and 40 total logs -- fulfilling both log goals (but no bonus). The caravan packed up and made their way safely off the map.

Success!! Now to the rewards.
I get a workshop draw as the bonus from the plants goal, so let's roll that first...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102422153082720377/image.png)
Absolutely taking Craftsdwarf from that bunch.

I get 3 more rewards for the base goals, and I have to decide first. Hm... gah, I really need more workshop options so I'll go all three workshop draws.
Draw 1 - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102422963128643624/image.png) -- Kitchen (that will help with food and trade!)
Draw 2 - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102423123581743175/image.png) -- Carpenter (yay beds!)
Draw 3 - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1102423338531434506/image.png) -- Smelter (unfortunately I was NOT able to afford an anvil, so I still can't build the forge but... closer).
Annnd still no way to make a slab for Tosid. Hang in there a bit longer, Tosid!

Now the goals for next year (pick 4 -- I'm doing a slow increase where embark was 3 goals, year 1 here is 4 goals, and thereafter is 5 goals as normal)
Spoiler: Tribute rolls (click to show/hide)
Ow, Kingy was definitely less kind this year. Let's see...
Doubtful I'll find that bonus stone type, but we can try.

Final Status for Year 1:
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on May 03, 2023, 09:55:23 pm
very cool . no, thank you VERY much for working with my stated rules and re-forming them into a refined object. I have played around with your version of the generators and they capture my written implications perfectly.

Quote
Gotta say, one thing I really like about this challenge idea is that it definitely guides you straight into learning more about the game (e.g. unusual materials that you maybe wouldn't usually make things from, but are still possible). For example on one of my test rolls I thought it'd be awful because I only got one 'achievable' tribute goal... but then after some wiki'ing around I realized... I can make pots from glass! (and I had magma glass furnace as a workshop pick option). And there was something else I could make out of glass too that I hadn't realized. Suddenly, I had three 'achievable' goals instead of one! xD Maybe that's not such a big deal for old hands at the game, but for me it's definitely making me look at things I hadn't thought to look at before.

YEAH i agree. glad you got to see this side of DF!!

 vanilla DF continues to remain more simulator than game, but this is not very clear to new players who are filled with imagination and inspired by narratives from old fortresses. this ruleset is born from a long decade spent trying to determine where exactly DF is game and where it is simulator, and trying to refine the demands of the game to better entertain the player.

Quote
Another idea might be to come up with some way to generate additional goals/rewards in addition to hitting the caverns, so we're not SOL if we hit some impossible condition and already hit all caverns + magma sea and got bad pulls for all of them, etc. Not sure if that would make things too easy though.

any ideas here? I was thinking that we could come up with some kind of explicit tribute goal that pushes the player to amass a certain quantity of goods, however this is too same-y to the already existing goalsets. qualifications for this feature would be:

1. the player must choose to engage with the goal, and cannot be forced into taking on the challenge
2. almost all embarks must allow for this challenge to occur

==

i'm enjoying your writeup. i haven't had much time for my own test but this is great to see how the rules play out in context.

Quote
And the milk we brought... is FROZEN. Oh dear.

I recall picking up a school lunch milk carton and finding ice crystals due to the lack of thawing time. . for these dwarves this must have been horrifying. . .
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 04, 2023, 12:22:44 pm
Eeewww, ice-crystals in milk. xD Fortunately for my dwarves, all the frozen stuff thawed almost immediately. I did discover that I evidently can't mark stuff on the wagon for 'dumping'. That is, I can mark them, but no dwarf will take the job. I had to get stuff off the wagon somehow first, and THEN I could 'dump' as needed. Which was not tenable for the frozen stuff so it just stayed on the wagon 'til it thawed. (I suppose I could've just disassembled the wagon too and that probably would've worked.)

Anyway!

Quick question: Are you able to see the images in my last couple of update posts? Just want to make sure they're visible to everyone and not just me.

Brief challenge update (no pictures right now unfortunately) --

On to the thoughts then...

For additional opt-in or boost goals, hm. I agree they should preferably be something that engages some aspect of the game we don't already have covered. A couple quick ideas:

Not sure how good those options are, but the gist being again to get people out of their comfort zone and try new things in the game. xD For instance, I've still never yet done a libary (or a justice system... or allowing guests... heh)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on May 05, 2023, 01:56:19 am
Quote from: BlueTrillium on May 04, 2023, 12:22:44 pm
Quick question: Are you able to see the images in my last couple of update posts? Just want to make sure they're visible to everyone and not just me.
I can see the images just fine.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 06, 2023, 11:42:41 am
Quote from: King Zultan on May 05, 2023, 01:56:19 am
Quote from: BlueTrillium on May 04, 2023, 12:22:44 pm
Quick question: Are you able to see the images in my last couple of update posts? Just want to make sure they're visible to everyone and not just me.
I can see the images just fine.
Awesome, thank you for confirming.

Got to the second caravan! (Time is flying, wow) The year is 101.

Springtime brought no visitors (as expected. Pop cap is reached so no migrants, and elves live far away with no contact currently. There don't seem to be any wars going on, and I've got little wealth, so no sieges. Just those dang Kea-people stealing honey out of my beehives!)

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1103889390264123512/image.png)
Summertime however, brought the humans! I don't know why I was surprised, they are literally our direct neighbors (our embark is almost touching one of their settlements). I guess it was because they showed up as just 'Peace' and not 'Allies' on the civilizations screen. At any rate, I was able to scramble up a few clay trinkets and extra prepared meals to trade, and managed to snag an iron anvil (though I don't have a spot ready for my forge yet). One of my dwarves loves rainbow trout so I bought some of that from them too. Too bad human clothes are the wrong size. Ah well, clothes are not a problem here... yet.

I was also happily surprised when Mafol (from the married couple that came in our first migrants) had a baby girl! With children capped at 10%  as per challenge rules, we are now truly full up until I can earn us some more population. Which I could really really use. Note to self: buy a couple toys from the dwarven caravan to keep the kiddo happy.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1103901361415934073/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1103901704111534140/image.png)

And at last, autumn came and with it the King's caravan. I recalled from last year they would pay extra for tools (and windows but heck with that). Noting for next year, that they want cloth... well unless we can expand our farming space and get a loom, that's not gonna happen, but we'll see. At least for this year, I had a good handful of stoneware jugs to trade (in addition to a few more prepared meals).
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1103918988444057653/image.png)

But first, the tribute! Delivering 16 barrels (no bonus) and 17 wooden pipe sections (yay bonus) was no problem. 56 raw plants was also no problem (so far no bonus, but I'm trying to get another 56 together before they leave so we'll see on that one). The 55 microcline however... well, I had it, but there was no way the caravan could carry it. They couldn't even carry 10 stones before I completely overloaded them (even after I bought out their heavy stuff). So I will dispose of the stones another way (prob drop them in magma, unless I can get a mechanic from the rewards here so I can atom-smash them).

So let's roll the rewards so far. First, the bonus rewards:
- bonus workshop for all wood pipe sections:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1104436327992262729/image.png)
Awesome, finally a Stoneworker!! I can at last make a slab for poor Tosid.
- +5 popcap for all microcline stones, excellent.
- I may yet manage to deliver another 56 plants for +5 more popcap, but we'll see.

Now the basic rewards, I get to pick 4 for fulfilling the base of all goals. First I need to decide which I want, hm.... I really could use a mechanic for a whole bunch of things (including the atom-smasher, traction beds, and traps), and a loom would definitely be nice if I want to try and make some extra money next year (or if I get a cloth goal). But I really need to get working on reputation, and would like more farming space too, so... all right. 2 workshop rolls, +1 reputation, and +6 squares of farming (I'm experimenting with that idea of earning more farming space this way -- 6 squares for free on embark, every 6 squares after that must be earned).

workshop roll 1 - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1104438378038042674/image.png) - crud, already have smelter, and hopefully won't need wood furnace if I can find some coal (which I haven't yet, but still...) yet... Ashery needs Wood Furnace so I guess Wood Furnace it is.

workshop roll 2 - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1104438886505132102/image.png) - Dangit!!!! So much for hopes, lol. Well, already have Farmer (and why-tf is Siege Workshop showing up so often, I should check that out), so I guess I get Soap-Maker for the (very distant, if I survive that long) future, lol.

All right, so my base rewards are Wood Furnace, Soap-Maker, reputation +1, and +6 farming squares. Bonus rewards are Stoneworker and +5 (possibly +10) popcap. I will wait to adjust the popcap until after the caravan leaves.

The caravan hasn't left yet (and I'm still hoping to give them those plants), but so far I have bought: a puzzlebox and a toy axe for the kiddo, another iron anvil, a few cheaper bits of clothing (mostly shoes) just in case ours starts wearing out, and a few bags and some cheap wooden chests for future bedrooms, and probably some other bits and bobs I'm forgetting. They did not have any animals to sell this year. I've requested they bring a dog next year to replace our idiot that killed itself.

So now... the moment of agony and truth: what demands are placed upon us for the coming year?
Spoiler: Tribute Roll (click to show/hide)
Yeeowch. Our Most Just and Benevolent Ruler isn't making it easy on us! And we need to pick five, now, so...

Biscuits are annoying since I go straight for roasts, but not a problem. Thank goodness they want 'rough' gems. Altars should be okay one way or another. I'll have to make the crossbows out of metal given my workshops though, ugh. Hopefully I can find enough ore...

All the other options were flat-out impossible right now, so I feel lucky to get five do-able ones I suppose xD Even if they will be tough. And it's only Year Two! Thank goodness for additional pop cap! And I better buy another pick so I can have more than one miner...

Final Status for Year 2:

I am very uneasy being completely defenseless, with no military (not enough dwarves), no traps, and no drawbridges. At least now I can build some doors I can lock, and hopefully (after making the demanded crossbows) I can get a couple dwarves started on military training this year. I am starting to enclose my pasture too, to keep my grazing animals contained. Fortunately this seems to be a peaceful world for now. Pray Armok it stays that way.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on May 07, 2023, 01:44:54 am
loving these writups, it's really handy to see the decisions from another's perspective.

Quote
I am very uneasy being completely defenseless, with no military (not enough dwarves), no traps, and no drawbridges. At least now I can build some doors I can lock, and hopefully (after making the demanded crossbows) I can get a couple dwarves started on military training this year. I am starting to enclose my pasture too, to keep my grazing animals contained. Fortunately this seems to be a peaceful world for now. Pray Armok it stays that way.

yeah I've been so focused on the goals that military and the associated production of weapons, armor, etc, have been completely forgotten.

======

At the end of my last post, the dwarves of Copperskies had just received their newest technological updates from the mountainhomes, and were now huddled around the royal parchment, signed by the Queen herself, detailing their burdens for the following year:

We have received the tribute requests for the following year. The bolded items were chosen:

You must collect 25 cloth. Random workshop draw awarded for rope reed.
You must collect 27 cloth. -1 impatience awarded for animal wool.
You must craft 16 Gloves. Random workshop draw awarded for hemp.

You must craft 7 axes. -2 impatience awarded for silver.
You must craft 30 figurines. Random workshop draw awarded for Cacao wood or cotton.
You must collect 13 wood. -2 impatience awarded for Carambola.
You must craft 9 spears. -1 impatience awarded for silver.
You must collect 46 fish. Random workshop draw awarded for 2x fullfillment.

two of these are impossible with my current list of workshops.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If I make it to the magma sea, I can access furniture via the glass furnace. But no clothing or weapons or stone furniture yet. That's rough.

So begins - The Mad Dash to the Center of the Earth, in the Name of the Queen and her Incessant Demands.

Our population remains 10.

First thing's first - set up a fishing dock near the northern lake cliffs.

(https://i.imgur.com/xElrxUQ.png)

The herbalists were cross-trained to wait like herons, striking out with their beards when the fish took the bait. This was common practice in the lowland fortresses where the poorer dwarves made their way by foraging and fishing.

Miners sent to search for the second cavern, and in only a few downward staircases it was discovered. The queen would demand additional tribute for this expansion, so choices were rolled:

You must craft 11 Leather Armor. -2 impatience awarded for animal wool.
You must collect 6 star ruby (or equivalent rarity) cut gemstones. Random workshop draw awarded for exact fullfillment.

WHA ?! How. . . both of these are extremely difficult. I think we're about to take a big impatience hit this year. I'll try to find some star ruby. Maybe if we hit one of those strange mineral nodes I've heard tales of.

(https://i.imgur.com/3zp6E1a.png)

Then, the second discovery - a waterlogged but very spacious cavern, the third in the stack. Yet another tribute draw:

You must craft 13 maces. -2 impatience awarded for copper.
You must craft 21 Door. -2 impatience awarded for Maple wood or steel.

I cant do either of these. damn. unless i hit the magma sea real quick here.

(https://i.imgur.com/Y74Gz1d.png)

Then - discovery. The magma. But it was breached from the side, extremely dangerous, we couldn't have known.... Ducim disappeared and the smell of burning hair filled the staircases. Ducim would be missed, but losing the pick was bad. Really, really bad.

(https://i.imgur.com/ksC9p9Y.png)

-1 impatience for the death of our miner. 5pts impatience total.

Of course, discovering the magma sea results in yet another tribute draw. Things are not looking good...

You must collect 12 metal bars. Random workshop draw awarded for wood.
You must collect 22 demantoid (or equivalent rarity) cut gemstones. Random workshop draw awarded for exact fullfillment.

Huh. Well, without a pick we are unable to act on either of these so . . . *flips a dog* lets try to get the metal bars.

Welp. This dash to the center was disatrous and inadvisable without a full suite of workshops. Doubly tragic was the loss of my only pickaxe and legendary miner, Ducim. Yet this is just the sort of mistake I would make when overly excited, searching for magma, and forgetting the weight of decisions underneath this ruleset. Oh, the horror!


I decide here to abandon and re-attempt a new test after a finagling of the rules. I am interested in a few things..

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As the dwarves left Copperskies, they encountered a polite skunk:

(https://i.imgur.com/EsmwlUc.png)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 07, 2023, 09:56:37 am
Oh no, Ducim! Dang, I would've thought the warm stone would've stopped him. Reminds me of my 'adventure' with Tosid, ha. Though fortunately for me Tosid wasn't the miner. It indeed would've been devastating to lose the lone pick. Though as long as I could hold out until the next caravan, it seems like nearly every human/dwarf caravan carries picks so a new one could probably have been obtained. Still...

Hehe, love the polite skunk, courteously waiting for the dwarves to leave before taking over their holdings in their stead. Sad to see Copperskies go - that's a really cool name and looked like a super interesting site, with the lake views and all.

Definitely a stretch of unlucky rolls! I agree that at the beginning the workshops are so important it's very likely that just about everyone would go for all workshop draws on at least the first year's rewards. However all it takes is some unlucky rolls with those un-doable goals and that impatience starts piling up really fast (as you saw), switching the focus to going for -impatience rewards almost exclusively I imagine. So really reputation then starts to become something you only pick as a reward once you're relatively comfortable with both workshops and impatience.

I'm not sure the swing from workshops to impatience to reputation as a focus at different phases is necessarily a bad thing, as it shows progression, but yeah there were definite stretches here and there in the first year especially where I was just kinda... waiting for the caravan so I could continue. I imagine it'd be worse if I'd drawn un-achievable goals because then there'd be even less to work towards. I'm not sure how I'd change it, though my version of the generator does try to 'weight' the workshop draws so the more crucial workshops show up more often (though that's still no guarantee of getting what you need, of course) which makes it a little bit easier.

I'm still having fun though! And it's certainly a challenge to try and work around the missing bits of infrastructure. I wonder though, once I do have all the important workshops, if that will take the challenge away and then it just becomes pretty much a regular game of DF.

We could draw things out by limiting how many total workshop draws we can get from tribute each year (e.g. maybe no more than half of your total base+bonus rewards can be workshops? or just a straight up cap of 3 workshop rewards per year? SOS goals from cavern discovery and such would not count towards this cap) That'd force us to choose more mixed rewards. Or would that just add frustration and/or longer downtime stretches where we're just waiting for the next caravan? Hm.

-----

I've no experience or knowledge of DFHack currently, and I kinda prefer the idea of a challenge that doesn't require any mods to play, so that anyone can participate regardless of setup. Which is not to say that some DFHack (or other mod) manipulation couldn't be used as some sort of optional add-on, possibly. I'm just not sure what's possible and what's not on that front. The extent of my DF modding thus far is fixing the bismuth bronze armor sprites lol. And even that I haven't yet figured out how to do 'properly' (as a mod, instead of directly editing the raws).

------

Definitely looking forward to your thoughts on embark points/packages!

In my current run of the challenge, I definitely am seeing what you meant about the skill points being nearly totally ignorable. I'm still glad I was able to 'set up' my chosen dwarf as broker/future mayor by picking the dwarf that looked like they'd have the most doable mandates and setting them up with all the social skills, but other than that most of my skill picks went to waste thus far (and I could definitely have done better if I'd picked skills more strategically, such as actually giving a dwarf some pottery skill since I had the magma kiln to start, but eh). Tactician and other more 'future' skills have just been sitting there getting rusty. I think if I did over my embark skills I'd have given one a bunch of pottery points of course, and then probably some guild-hall-useful skills? Something to hopefully trigger demonstrations (I need to wiki...) because I tried to make a doctor guildhall to give my dwarves something useful to do in downtime, and nothing is happening there at all. xD I'm guessing my 'doctor's skills are too low/in the wrong things.

The embark points are another thing entirely. Even with a self-imposed limit of 500 points, given the restrictions I placed on myself (no anvil, only one pick, only one axe, max 5 livestock, max 15 barrels, max 5 bags) I had points to burn. I ended up bringing a bunch of stone and wood (certainly very useful! If a bit boring), some starter coke/fuel (WILL be useful shortly but right now not so much), a few mugs (which ended up being a very good decision I think), a bucket (for milking), and a nestbox to get eggs from my fowl (also good). I grabbed some splints and crutches just to fill out the points (and then those got stolen by the kea-people lol).

So I'm not sure if I should've relaxed the restrictions a bit -- I could definitely have used way more bags, they are used for so many things I just didn't think of -- or reduced the starting points, or both. If we allowed up to 2 picks (or even required it) that could've eaten up more points. There are probably also some other useful tools I could've brought (wonder if I could have brought a wheelbarrow or minecarts... I didn't even look.) I maybe could've brought some armor/weapons? or even extra clothes? hm.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 07, 2023, 06:37:21 pm
An update on my fort --

First order of business now that I have a Stoneworker. Tosid, rest in peace.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1104619109389447248/image.png)
Weirdly, even his slab just says he 'went missing'. Apparently because no dwarf witnessed when he disintegrated and left just his clothes behind, they still hold out hope. But his sacrifice, acknowledged or not, was not in vain! The new home for the (future) glass furnaces, and the level above are the kilns.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1104627022216568883/image.png)

Sazkul the ever-orange seems to be crankier than usual. So I checked him out: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1104876040150597802/image.png)
Dude, you are a woodcutter. You are outside all the time. Stop being such a whiny baby. The actual baby in this fort handles rain better than you.

Our lone cat in the fortress has chosen their person. Nothing less than our legendary (and only) miner would do.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1104851725992607784/image.png)

And with Spring comes... oh no. I knew it was coming but... (and this is by no means all of it)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1104824435061575833/image.png)
Dangit, we're all gonna be angsty about worn-out clothes before the fall caravan comes around again, aren't we.

I was indeed able to get the bonus plants to the dwarf caravan, so I did raise my popcap to 20 as per the previous update, and am looking forward to whenever the next migrants arrive. I'm also concerned about my goal of 71 scepters. I know you can't just directly craft scepters: you have to 'make crafts' and hope for the best. It is NOT going well so far, lol. At this point I have 2 kilns going on crafts full-time, and have barely 20 scepters. On the plus side, I have three full bins of other crafts for trading, or future tribute goals.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 12, 2023, 05:52:29 pm
Completed year 3! Taking up the thread from last post...

Spoiler: Migrants and an 'epic' Battle (click to show/hide)

At last the Autumn caravan from the Monarch arrived. First I delivered tribute:

So that's 3 bonus workshops, plus 5 base rewards. Rolling the bonus workshops first...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1106669666262327328/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1106669866909442259/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1106670266232348702/image.png)
No choice on any of these. Like it or not, I'm stuck with:
Siege Workshop, Screw Press, and Metalsmith Forge
that last one being insult added to injury, since I already have Magma Forge. But such is RNG.

Now for the 5 base rewards, I will go with...
Seriously considered going for more popcap but... need to get some traction on that reputation.

So now to roll those 2 workshop draws...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1106671424938188891/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1106671721584545902/image.png)
Omg, finally a mechanic. Bridges, wells (if I ever get water), traps, levers, traction benches, here I come!
For the other one I had no choice (but it's not so bad) -- Magma Glass Furnace. At least I have a spot set up for that, if not the bags to really implement it. Still no loom or clothier or butcher/etc though, drat.

Which brings us to next year's tribute goals...
Spoiler: Tribute rolls (click to show/hide)
Not super bad, but not great. Let's take these:

Don't really like giving up that much wood, but I do have highwood so bonus should be possible there. Meals, no problem, though that's a lot. Stone... that's a total of 125 stone if I want the impatience bonus, hopefully 31 of which are anhydrite or graphite. I don't think I've seen either of those yet. I considered breastplates instead of the 47 meals but ultimately decided I can't afford the coke, even if I could get enough silver.

From the caravan we bought as much clothing as we could afford, and four dogs (all female) to replace the knucklehead that died. The dogs were immediately trained to war dogs, I've learned that lesson. Got some more rainbow trout since I think I remember somebody liked that. For next year we asked them to bring some bituminous coal and lignite to beef up our coke supply, and more clothing. In turn they want... (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1106653448792977408/image.png) ...nope. Well one less thing to worry about.

Per the civilizations screen on the world map, we've exported (not counting tribute) ~11000 worth to the Ruler. I believe that earns me +1 reputation.

Final Status for Year 3:

Happiness is trending down. I think for a few reasons - one, clothing is wearing out. Endok when she grew up into a child couldn't find any legwear and keeps getting bad thoughts (and a memory too darnit) of being humiliated at being uncovered. I couldn't buy enough new trousers for her to get a pair, but maybe I can snag some worn ones for her from those that are dropped on the floor. I'm going to try and reclaim them, anyway, and see what happens. For another, for the longest time I couldn't get that kea-man corpse out of the entryway and people kept passing it to repasture animals and getting bad thoughts there too. Nobody in the red yet, though, just a couple dark orange! (Thank goodness)

Still no militia/defenses unless you count the wrestler squad I scrambled against that kea-man for the grizzly fight. I don't count them because they have no barracks and no training schedule and no armor or weapons. But at least now I can activate my drawbridges and get some traps going.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on May 13, 2023, 03:09:10 am
Is Impatience able to go into the negatives?
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 13, 2023, 12:42:58 pm
Quote from: King Zultan on May 13, 2023, 03:09:10 am
Is Impatience able to go into the negatives?
A good question, I don't think it had been brought up previously.

I think for my current fort I will follow this rule for now, until there's an official ruling:
- Impatience can go negative, but only from the 'bonus' rewards (the ones where I don't get to choose what the reward is). If impatience is already zero or negative, I can not choose -1 impatience as a 'base' reward and must choose a different base reward instead.

I'm going with this for now because I don't want those bonus rewards to go to waste just because I happen to be at zero impatience, but at the same time I don't want to be able to 'bank' large amounts of negative impatience against the harder later year goals. I'm definitely open to other options/interpretations though. Since a failed goal costs three impatience though, I feel like you can't really earn enough negative impatience to make a very big deal.

Another alternative (but one I'm not using just yet) might be to convert any negative impatience into reputation. Honestly that might be the most elegant resolution. We'll see how it goes and what Salmeuk says.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on May 14, 2023, 03:43:24 am
I'd think that Impatience could go into negatives to represent the royalty liking what you have going on well enough that they don't care about one or two bad things happening.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on May 15, 2023, 11:29:52 am
hmmm. it could be good, but then it might be better to balance accordingly, like have the scale shift from 0 - 20 to -10 to 10... As BlueTrillium pointed out, banking negative impatience might be a strong strategy indeed.

Quote
I chucked them out in the pasture and promptly forgot about them.... until I belatedly noticed a combat alert on the side of the screen. They were fighting one of those dratted kea-men coming to steal my honeycombs!!! I never even trained the grizzlies for war, dangit. I scrambled the fort into a wrestling squad and sent them after the kea-man, but it was too late.

RIP the grizzly dream. would be very useful to have animals to fight instead of dwarves. your suffering from kea attacks and still doing this well? nice. keas are no joke honestly. the morale damage from constant harassment and potential injuries can ruin fortresses

thanks again for the updates. i haven't had much time to start up another of my own tests. if we get enough players, delphonso mentioned he might want to start a Competitive DF round 2.. that would also get in the way. so for now I will put this on the backburner  :)

though if you happen to make any balance changes or rule changes on your own, post about them here. I'm particularly interesting in how the difficulty scales over time, and whether we can adjust the tributes to keep up the furious activity necessary to produce those goods. in my mind, the ideal balance would really push you to the limits of what a small fortress can produce, and that would be almost every year!


 I was kind of thinking about how strongly inspired i was by Against the Storm, and how the tributes force your hand in so many ways and it made me realize that I really do play DF for the creative and relaxed elements. something about the way other games force your action into a very narrow pathway, makes the gameplay feel robotic, while DF has this feeling to it, a potential energy of sorts.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 15, 2023, 10:47:57 pm
No problem, and thanks!

Weirdly, the only thing the kea-men (and kea-women of course) have been interested in is taking all my honeycombs out of my beehives, which are outside outlining the wagon-path to my front door. They haven't tried to get into my fortress at all thus far, and they leave the outdoor animals alone (though of course the animals are scared and scatter to the four winds every time the kea-people drop by). Seems the kea-people have a mighty sweet tooth. Or I guess, it's because the beehives are the only thing I have outside and uncovered? Hm. Makes me wonder, if I didn't have them out there, if the kea-people would come after me at all.

The kobolds are becoming an increasing annoyance, though thus far they've gone away totally empty-pawed. They run away as soon as they're detected.

All the other creatures and wildlife have left me alone so far, except when my animals (e.g. the grizzlies and the idiotic dogs) go after them first. The dogs in particular seem to adore suiciding against the wild boars. (Besides that first dog death, three of the four new dogs have already severely injured themselves going after boars -sigh- I'm starting to wonder if the dogs are worth it, but at least they keep detecting and scaring off the kobolds.) I haven't actually seen a lot of wildlife, period. There's the boars (pretty frequent), ravens (totally ignore me), magma crabs (stayed in the volcano) and an occasional kiwi (stays far away) running around, and that's about it besides the marauding kea-people. I have not been chopping trees except when needed, and then usually only the most massive (3x3) Highwoods so I get a bunch of wood at once and don't need more for awhile. So nothing's been agitated so far.

re the balance - I'm definitely feeling it as the numbers get bigger on the tribute goals. The year 3 goals (with the scepters and such) I think hit just about the perfect spot, a good mix, and I was barely able to make it, and I had to focus on them, but I did it. This new set of year 4 goals didn't end up with enough variety so while the sheer amount is somewhat challenging, and some of the bonuses rolled are unachievable, the base goals that I rolled this time are so doable I essentially have them already done by the end of Winter. Which in a way is nice to have a little breather (e.g. so I can keep working on finding that darn aquifer, lol, and other projects like happiness.) so I think the randomness still has value. It's definitely still a nail-biter each year when I roll to see what I'll get! But I'll keep going and see if I change my tune as the years go on. xD
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 19, 2023, 11:45:51 pm
Got about half a year done... some new developments.

As I had hoped at the end-of-year summary, I was indeed able to reclaim the dropped clothing and that allowed it to redistribute to those who needed it. Endok now has trousers!

Likewise, the fairly simple goals this time (just stone, wood, and meals) mean I have all the base goals covered already. I'm still striving for some bonuses, but other than that I can now focus on improving life in the fortress and hopefully turning some of that happiness around.

First step -- found the aquifer!! I dunno if it's the only aquifer on the map, but the only one I've found thus far is (naturally) in the most distant and inconvenient corner of the map, as far as it can possibly get from my actual fortress. This will be... annoying. It's also only one layer deep, which I'm undecided whether that's good or bad. I've dug a reservoir on the layer underneath and plan to fill it via ceiling drips. I dug out the area and I'll leave it be for now, and do other things while it fills up. Later I'll figure out the hauling. xD
Spoiler: aquifer reservoir (click to show/hide)

We had our first (and if I'm understanding population vs moods correctly, only) strange mood! Fortunately we apparently had everything she needed. We got... well, it's certainly dwarfy!
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1107486839100686346/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1107490746807881759/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1107490921660035142/image.png)

What the...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1107498768863080559/image.png)
Elves came?! They live on the opposite side of the world map, there is 'no contact' between us and them last I checked, and they didn't show up the past 3 years... but y'know what, this is good! -brings out all the extra stoneware crafts from when we were trying to make scepters- Nice, they did not impose a tree quota either, though I'm not sure why not. Maybe because they live so far away. Weirdly nice elves. They didn't bring any interesting animals this year, but now I have more hope of renewing our grizzly population in the future. What they did bring, and what I eagerly bought them out of, was clothes! This should stave off unclothed complaints a bit longer!

And finally... okay, look at this: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1107519546824331284/image.png)
One dwarf. One dwarf is thwarting all my efforts at improving life at the fort. And it's not Sazkul! It's this wretched dwarf:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1107519686423363655/image.png)
I am at wits' end with her. She's got positive thoughts out the wazoo (most of her memories are positive too). I put her in a wrestler/shield squad with staggered training to try and satisfy her martial training and fighting wants. I have her craft things for crafting wants. She's got plenty of free time to satisfy worship wants (though she rarely does...) I've tried to cancel/restrict her from any job that might take her outside. She's got a better bedroom than any of the other singles.

She'll pile up several positive thoughts and then, bam, "Oh no, I walked by a dead kea man once a year ago. I got rained on a couple times a while back. The world is ending." And then she pulls shit like in that picture above. Annoyed sleeping in the dirt? Annoyed sleeping in the dirt?! DON'T SLEEP IN THE DIRT THEN, MORON! YOU HAVE A BEDROOM! AND YOU WERE LIKE 3 STEPS AWAY FROM IT!!! And don't try to claim I was overworking you girl because you were on free time when you chose to sleep there. You are literally sleeping in the booze stockpile. Ugh.

xDDD So anyway, I'm doing what I can for her (and letting her yell at the expedition leader frequently, not that she feels anything from that) for now, while I am working on making an actual dining hall/tavern with what will hopefully be a mist generator once I figure out how to power it and how to get water up there fast enough to get it going instead of just evaporating. Here's hoping that will be sufficient to at least get her off of red.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 21, 2023, 11:37:58 am
Now to finish off this year... (stuff is going really quickly, I'm trying to pace myself lol)

So I looked at the world map to check out the news & rumors and such, and it seems like there's a lot of invasions and takeovers going on. Seems almost half of the elven retreats have been conquered by goblins (but are now occupied by humans?!) so maybe that's what triggered them to visit me -- desperation. Or more likely it was just some fame I gained from all my exports. Who knows. Some dwarven settlements (including at least one from my own civilization!) have also been conquered. It's pretty concerning. Hopefully the goblins won't come after us, isolated as we are. And also hopefully we don't somehow inherit the king prematurely. *fingers crossed*

The human traders came, nothing special. They did not bring more grizzlies, so my next hope for those is the elves next spring. Since I can't use their clothes I basically just bought food and some tools and materials for potential strange moods.

Speaking of which --
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109557557900623953/image.png)
They're a legendary potter already, so I was a bit confused why they went for a Stoneworker workshop... This is how I (re)discovered that Potter is not a moodable skill. At any rate he only grabbed obsidian and a chunk of wood, so I didn't expect much.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109560619851587635/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109560494454476800/image.png)
Huh. Even in a mood, the goblin encroachment is worrying my dwarves, too. Well I don't blame them. We still don't have any military to speak of.

Progress on the fancy dining/tavern is going well. But one of those statues is looking familiar...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109561839072845864/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109561645765763262/image.png)
Tosid! My 'missing' dwarf! At least they finally acknowledge that he was 'mortally wounded', though they still don't seem to have any idea how, lol.

And at last, the Monarch's caravan arrived. After the usual introductory bowing and scraping, we... became a barony!! I considered turning it down, but the lure of those wagons (and the increased capacity thereof) convinced me. Meng our expedition leader is now also our baroness. Maybe someday she'll even get quarters. Hopefully I correctly picked someone that'll have manageable demands. At any rate, the rest went on as usual, with a note for next year: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109576969403760690/image.png) Sure, I can make a bunch of green glass ones, if I remember. xD Also this:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109591827914432593/image.png)
All righty, then.

Bought 4 more (female) dogs, 2 (female) cats, all their bituminous coal and lignite, and all the clothing I could afford. Overall a good haul.

I delivered all the wood (all highwood), and all the meals to the caravan first (and smashed all the stone) for tribute. This achieved all five base goals, plus four bonus goals that added up to -2 Impatience, +10 population cap, and a bonus workshop. Rolling the bonus workshop first...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109599538437697657/image.png)
So I have a quern now. Which could be useful, but I still have no way to make bags.

For the base goals I chose... +5 popcap, +3 reputation, and a workshop (I still really need to break in to the meat and cloth industries!). So here's the workshop roll... (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109600768375398521/image.png) ...Really? RNG is absolutely desperate to keep me away from meat/bone/cloth, it seems. I really really hope nobody has a mood that requires bone anytime soon. Anyway, since fishery is useless on this map, I take Ashery. At some point I'll get (hemp oil) soap going for the hospital. Eventually.

Now goals for next year.
Spoiler: Tribute rolls (click to show/hide)
Clearly the King agrees I had it too easy this year. Dang. There aren't five achievables so for sure I'm going to fail at least one this year. Well that's what my extra Impatience is for. Anyway -

Goals for next year:

After the caravan left I checked the civilization screen to see if I earned more rep for my exports to Mountainhome, and yep, I'm at ~21k, so I get +1 more rep from that.

Final Status for Year 4:

Happiness (really, Zas, the red dwarf) is very slowly turning around. For some reason she's 'stressed' all the time, but her memories are slowly turning more positive, and she's up to dark-orange now. Maybe if I can get that tavern finished and the mist generator going, I can get her back on an even keel.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on May 21, 2023, 02:12:12 pm
Quote
She'll pile up several positive thoughts and then, bam, "Oh no, I walked by a dead kea man once a year ago. I got rained on a couple times a while back. The world is ending." And then she pulls shit like in that picture above. Annoyed sleeping in the dirt? Annoyed sleeping in the dirt?! DON'T SLEEP IN THE DIRT THEN, MORON! YOU HAVE A BEDROOM! AND YOU WERE LIKE 3 STEPS AWAY FROM IT!!! And don't try to claim I was overworking you girl because you were on free time when you chose to sleep there. You are literally sleeping in the booze stockpile. Ugh.

.... lol. some dwarves are extremely relate-able in this regard. Life is good, yet they still complain...

it used to be you would only have one aquifer at the top of the layers, but now you can find them pretty much at any depth.

breeding grizzlies? honestly, that's awesome. you would be surprised how rare a 'breeding pair' of animals can be. CHERISH THEM. oh no one died  :'(  :'(

hmmm. so it seems like, overall, the fortress is fairly comfortable? you aren't all that pressed for time, just the fact that finding 50 semi-precious gems is kind of a long shot or impossible depending on geology. .

perhaps more difficulty is needed. if I wasn't so busy with my IRL tabletop games i would work more on the design here but alas.

Quote
Happiness (really, Zas, the red dwarf) is very slowly turning around.

I'm thinking this 'Zas' is really the Queen in disguise. and her constant state of unhappiness is due to hearing all the rabble complaining about her demands  :D
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 21, 2023, 10:50:25 pm
Heh xD Well the cut gems one is impossible because I don't have a Jeweler workshop to cut them (unless I dive for caverns and get a lucky extra workshop draw!) If they were rough, it would be tough but doable (I might even have enough rough semi-precious jewels in storage already). It's probably good to have some not-doable goals from time to time though, so we feel some impatience-stress. xD Even with this, the goals this time have so many impatience rewards that even with a failed goal I'll still have negative impatience at the end of next year!

So, yep, it's fairly comfortable... as long as nobody pulls the wrong jenga stick lol. For instance, if a megabeast or titan or siege came, I would be absolute toast barring some crazy luck. I'd say I've been both fairly lucky, and also playing it pretty safe.

........

oh crud. OHHHHHHH, crud. I jinxed myself.

I have a possessed dwarf mood.

and they want BONES

I'm in BIG trouble now. Maybe I can use some tricks and hold the failure off until the fall caravan and hope for a lucky workshop... *all fingers, eyes, and toes crossed* (right now I think waiting for the fall caravan -- I'm in mid-summer -- will be faster than trying to find the caverns. Though I might work towards that too.)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on May 22, 2023, 04:06:40 am
Quote from: Salmeuk on May 21, 2023, 02:12:12 pm
perhaps more difficulty is needed.
I'll just say as someone who can't fortress this challenge looks incredibly difficult as it stands right now, but it will be interesting when it comes to adding military related challenges to the list.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on May 26, 2023, 12:58:24 am
The next caravan has arrived and Year 5 is complete!

A farmer went into a secretive mood and decided our civilization's first Queen deserved immortalization as an artifact hand-held figurine. Of brimstone!
Spoiler: Artifact Figurine (click to show/hide)

For whatever reason, an elf diplomat just appeared (no warning, just suddenly bam there they were in the middle of my fort) on DAY 1 of Spring. They 'gave us a warning' about disrespecting the trees in this area (but did not give us a tree-cutting quota) and left. Well, okay then.

The regular elf caravan arrived about 2 weeks later at the usual time and with the usual alert. And... they had grizzlies!! They were super expensive but I happily scrounged up enough to buy two female grizzlies, who were promptly pastured with the wounded male grizzly, and trained for war. Here's hoping for cubs next year. Then I was very intrigued to see snapping turtles and alligator snapping turtles and I thought... hey. Shells for moods someday? So I bought a pair of each and stuffed them in with my peacock, pig, and pet chicken. I managed to catch an alligator snapping turtle laying eggs in a nest box, and forbid the eggs, so hopefully we'll have some of them hatching eventually too. With the trade goods I had left I bought all the clothes I could. I've definitely seen quite a few warning thoughts about worn and missing clothes so hopefully this will help.

As the elves were leaving, I got a HUGE wave of migrants. Yep, 15. Filled us allll the way back up to the new popcap, and I most definitely don't have beds set up to accommodate them, lol. But... I don't understand. FIVE of them are children. As per the challenge rules, I DO have the child/baby cap solidly set at 10%. I already had one child in the fort (Endok) so I shouldn't have been able to get more than 2 or 3 more at most. So getting 5 (for a new total of 6 children in a 35-dwarf fort) has me totally baffled (and also pretty annoyed). They're mostly younger children, too. The oldest two are 14, the rest are all under age 8. Ugh. Well, whatever.

Here's the list of migrants (nobody with notable skills unfortunately):
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1109698649459527740/image.png)
iton is the only single, and he brought along his pet bunny.
Dodok and Kivish are married but childless.
Tobul and Solon are married, Logem is their daughter, and they brought Solon's pet kitten.
Datan and Kib are married, and Cog, Catten, and Kivish are their children.
Tosid is kinda another single, in that he came alone, but he does have a wife and 7 kids that he left behind (he brought his pet chicken)
Dobar and Litast are married and Adil is their son (they left 2 other children behind)
Three non-pet animals also arrived with the migrants - another kitten, a goat, and a llama.

Time passed pretty smoothly gathering up the items for the next tribute. The shields were taking the most time, and more wood had to be cut for them (sorry not sorry, elf dudes. You didn't give me a quota so...). The human caravan came and went, nothing special.

But maybe getting those snapping turtles was a mistake because...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1110071881626832967/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1110054552880812092/image.png)
HE WANTS BONES (or maybe shells).
Either way it doesn't matter because I don't have a butcher to obtain them!

There's a bunch of reasons why I don't want this guy to go crazy. There's the impatience penalty. There's the point of pride that throughout three forts since I've started playing, I've never failed a single mood. And there's the fact that this workshop (like most of my workshops currently) can't be closed off from the rest of my fort. If he goes berserk or something I will likely have even more impatience penalties if other dwarves die too (and he's a miner, so he has a pick...it could be a slaughter). Plus this guy has what I think are some pretty nice stats that I'd rather not lose.

So I look for options.

Per the wiki, "sometimes" if you fight a butcherable animal and knock a limb off, when it rots it may turn into useable bone without a butcher. I've never seen that happen, but can't hurt to try. So I checked my map and there were some wild turkeys running about. I sent my wrestler squad after them, and somehow one managed to knock off a wing (I think kinda chopped it off with their shield, lol). So I gathered that in to see if it'd turn to bone.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1110059947217133738/image.png)

If that didn't work (and it didn't look like it was going to -- all the other bits turned to skeletons eventually, but the wing stayed a wing) my only option seems to be to get a Butcher. Which means hoping to draw one as a reward from the Fall caravan, or going for the caverns and hoping for a workshop draw as a bonus tribute. It was already mid-summer, so I decided to wait for the caravan.

I know the trick of 're-setting' the madness timer on the mood by forbidding one of the items he grabbed (though I've never had to resort to that trick before), so I kept doing that to keep the dwarf going. It wouldn't last forever though, and he was getting very unhappy being unable to attend to his other wants (though fortunately, not hungry or thirsty yet).

Finally the fall caravan came. We were elevated to a county! (great, lol, her rooms aren't even good enough for a Baroness yet). We turned in 59 walnut logs (base + bonus), 48 bars of billon (base + bonus), 30 bars of lead (base + bonus), and 48 highwood shields (base + bonus). The fifth goal (cut gems) we were unable to do because we don't have a Jeweler.

The bonus rewards netted -6 impatience and 1 bonus workshop. Rolling the bonus workshop gets me
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111511614861090818/image.png)
Well it's not a Butcher, but I'll take that Loom! We can at last make cloth (and take the next step towards clothing and bags).

For the 4 base rewards... I'm truly desperate for a Butcher now, so I will take 3 workshop draws and +1 rep. So here go the workshops...

First - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111512658693337158/image.png)
Jeweler. Now we can handle cut-gem goals if need be.

Second - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111513187154669658/image.png)
Got all those already. Rerolling - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111513573315842059/image.png)
Clothier. Now we can make clothes! Nice but... still no Butcher. I'm kinda sweating bullets now after not just taking all 4 workshop draws...

Third - (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111513943157002240/image.png)
WHEW. Gosh. Okay, obviously, I am taking Butcher.

Now time to roll goals for next year:
Spoiler: Tribute rolls (click to show/hide)
Well... that's a mix all right. Hm. There are certainly five+ do-ables, though I definitely won't be able to do all the bonuses I think.

Goals for next year:

Final Status for Year 5:

The caravan hasn't left yet. Once it does I'll check my exports and see if I get any more reputation from that. I traded them quite a lot in order to buy out their clothes and fuel stones, plus they had some steel gear I really wanted to grab, and a couple instruments I plan to put in my dining hall/tavern. I also bought a couple more peacock hens since my one from embark is getting kinda elderly. Bought some gypsum plaster for the future hospital, some food ingredients (esp since I have food for tribute again), wood, the usual.

So, I'm not out of the woods yet with mood-guy, but at least I have a way forward now, when I next continue.

*edit* While waiting for the caravan to leave, I built the Butcher. They immediately grabbed the old turkey skeletons and chopped them up into bones! I didn't think they'd do that with old skeletons, but this is awesome because I didn't have to slaughter anything and waste the hide since I don't have a Tanner yet. And yes, the moody guy accepted the turkey bones and started working away.

He finished before the caravan left:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111749708772290671/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111750718609702972/image.png)
Two more historical nobles from my civilization. I must have a fort of history buffs.

And also (I assume because we're a county now) we gained a couple more holdings:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111741421985218611/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1111761223789322342/image.png)

Once the caravan finally left, I was able to check how much I've exported (not counting tribute) to the Mountainhome, and we're up to 48k! That gives me +2 more rep.

And I realized also that I'm supposed to earn rep for creating artifacts! Counting this latest one, we have created four artifacts so far: the mug, two figurines, and the coffer. So that's +4 more rep. I've edited the 'Final status of Year 5' info above to reflect this. 15 total rep! I'm halfway to beating the challenge!
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on June 01, 2023, 11:53:33 am
damn. honestly, it seems like your fortress is destined for victory. well done.

Quote
As the elves were leaving, I got a HUGE wave of migrants. Yep, 15. Filled us allll the way back up to the new popcap, and I most definitely don't have beds set up to accommodate them, lol. But... I don't understand. FIVE of them are children. As per the challenge rules, I DO have the child/baby cap solidly set at 10%. I already had one child in the fort (Endok) so I shouldn't have been able to get more than 2 or 3 more at most. So getting 5 (for a new total of 6 children in a 35-dwarf fort) has me totally baffled (and also pretty annoyed).

yeahhhh children are generally useless lol. I think migrating parents will sometimes bring children regardless of the cap but I am not certain, because I have seen similar things..

that's a brilliant idea to sever a limb and let it rot.. though really a Hail Mary shot when it comes to securing a useable bone hahah

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 07, 2023, 11:32:26 pm
Oh killing stuff and letting it rot for bones was definitely a Hail Mary! It didn't work quite how I hoped it would, but it ended up being helpful anyway.

I bet you're right about the kids. Probably the 10% cap prevents new kids from being born if existing kids are already at or above that % of the fort, but doesn't do anything about migrations (up to the regular pop-cap). I'm still learning what applies to births and what applies to migrants but... the way it's shaking out it seems like the only thing that migrants care about is that main popcap and everything else is just limiting births, heh.

(side note, I really wish I could figure out how to get dwarves to marry. Nothing to do with this challenge or anything, I just would really like more pairs in my fort so I could -do- something about the 'be with family' wants. I know, I know, they're not a significant source of unhappiness. But clearing wants makes *me* happy, lol. I've tried locking them in various rooms together etc. Maybe I just need to do it more frequently.)

It does seem like my attempt is going well! I still feel like I'm on a bit of a knife-edge since I know certain things could destroy my fort super-easily if they happen, but I don't feel any danger from the monarch's impatience now that I've pretty much gotten the workshops I needed. I do think that I was also super lucky for the most part with goals and rewards, despite the stress of stuff like the extended lack of clothes or the need for bones.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on June 12, 2023, 11:28:49 pm
Quote
(side note, I really wish I could figure out how to get dwarves to marry. Nothing to do with this challenge or anything, I just would really like more pairs in my fort so I could -do- something about the 'be with family' wants. I know, I know, they're not a significant source of unhappiness. But clearing wants makes *me* happy, lol. I've tried locking them in various rooms together etc. Maybe I just need to do it more frequently.)

hmm. there is a fair amount of people with success generating marriages. Brewer Bob managed to encourage marriage in Waterlures with your described technique. It does take a fair amount of time spent together, and not all pairs are sexually compatible (creatures in DF have basic sexual orientations). You can 'fix' this incompatibility with DFhack if, for instance, you have a particular dwarf you want to marry off. At the very least, you can examine dwarves with DFhack to make sure you aren't wasting your time as overseer.

I'm curious, so as a new player have you tried any mods from the workshop? if so, are there perhaps any that have helped you learn the game? 


Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 13, 2023, 12:23:16 am
Re: Marriages -- Hm. It must just take a lot more instances of locking them in, I suppose. I started out with a pair of dwarves that were already lovers, figuring that would be easier (and assuming that if they were already lovers they must be compatible preference-wise), but I have to admit I can't seem to pin them down into the same place at the same time all that often. I've resorted to sticking two unattached levers in their rooms and creating a lever-pulling custom labor that only they do. Then when they come in (I totally fill both levers' queues so they hopefully -stay- in there long enough for the other to arrive) I lock the door for awhile until I see at least one interaction in their recent memories. Usually I try for two thoughts - one for something like 'tenderness talking to a lover' and one for 'having an intellectual discussion with a lover' or similar. Then I let them get back to work until I decide to try again heh.


Re: Mods and the workshop -- I haven't used any at all from the workshop, nor do I use DFHack yet. Though I've written two 'mods' myself... both of which edited the main files directly, unfortunately, because I haven't figured out how to do it properly in a separate mod file yet. (and I know I need to - both because I want to do things properly, and because I assume my 'mods' will be overwritten whenever the next update comes)
- The first one was a simple edit to fix the bismuth bronze armor sprites so that they actually show up in-game. That one worked just fine, even in an existing world - I assume because it was visual-only.
- The second one was an attempt to give elves and humans the ability to do trade agreements (because it really really annoyed me that as soon as I got the monarch to move in I could no longer request stuff from caravans). That one only half-succeeded. The elves do give me trade agreements but the humans do not, so I think I've done theirs incorrectly. I do know humans randomly generate their 'roles' but that's my difficulty, since there's no pre-existing role in the main files (that I saw anyway) to add the role to, and I didn't feel confident generating a whole role out of thin air and have it work correctly. The elves change technically works but they behave a little weird so I'm not entirely sure I haven't screwed that one up somehow too. They haven't given me a tree quota yet since I made that change (and I created a new world too), and the envoy sometimes arrives at weird times in spring (separate from the caravan) and sometimes comes more than once in the same spring (I had an elf show up on day 1 of spring with a vague threat about abusing the trees - but no quota - and then they showed up again with the trade caravan in spring and give me a trade agreement but no tree commentary).


I probably will cave and use DFHack and other mods eventually, but I like to thoroughly learn the vanilla game first (bugs and all) before messing with it too much. xD Then I usually start (as above) with writing my own initially (sometimes downloading other people's mods to use for reference) before actually installing other mods more fully. I'm also not really familiar with using Steam for modding. I typically have used mods from NexusMods and similar places for other games in the past, where I can download the mods and dissect them separately before deciding if I want to actually install them in my game. Steam seems like it tries to control the whole process for you, which I think will annoy me (though I could be wrong on that, having not actually tried yet)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on June 13, 2023, 01:39:41 am
Quote from: BlueTrillium on June 13, 2023, 12:23:16 am
I'm also not really familiar with using Steam for modding.
I've used Steam workshop for mods before and basically you click subscribe on the mod page, it downloads, and that's it the mod is installed.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 13, 2023, 08:21:30 am
Quote from: King Zultan on June 13, 2023, 01:39:41 am
Quote from: BlueTrillium on June 13, 2023, 12:23:16 am
I'm also not really familiar with using Steam for modding.
I've used Steam workshop for mods before and basically you click subscribe on the mod page, it downloads, and that's it the mod is installed.
That's the problem for me, kinda. I like to have a bit more control over things, so that when stuff goes wrong I can troubleshoot and fix it without some 'mod manager' that thinks it knows better overwriting/undoing all my fixes, heh. Though perhaps Steam isn't as overbearing as all that, we'll see.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on June 13, 2023, 12:21:05 pm
ah , you should not be afraid. unlike Bethesda's atrocious modding sphere (usually involving the installation of a mod manager, followed by hours of selection and compatibility checks), DF now has access to mod activation on a per-world basis. So you just install the mod from the workshop and, when generating the world, select the appropriate combination of things to activate.

Quote
but I like to thoroughly learn the vanilla game first (bugs and all) before messing with it too much.

this, however, is a very fair point

Quote
Steam seems like it tries to control the whole process for you, which I think will annoy me (though I could be wrong on that, having not actually tried yet)

Steam does affect the modding. I am not familiar with the process sadly, but it sounds as though you are forced to write your mods within certain guidelines for compatibility reasons, but overall there are no additional limits to what you can create. . again, I could be wrong here
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on June 14, 2023, 02:51:35 am
I never noticed Steam to be overbearing when it came to modding.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 16, 2023, 11:10:03 pm
Ohh, installed mods are activated on a per-world basis? Intriguing. At least it means that if I choose to grab something from the steam workshop I'm not necessarily forced to immediately include it in all my current/future saves. That's a cool feature that other games I've modded haven't had.

Anyway! Got through another year and finally got enough together to post!

For some reason some months later after the other holdings joined me (I assumed due to the promotion to County)... another holding joined.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1112803366142226532/image.png)
I suppose I could be checking these holdings periodically for useful dwarves to ask to join, but I figure that's kinda against the spirit of the popcap. Not sure it would even work because of the popcap. They'd maybe just... never come? Eh no matter. I don't want to tempt myself so I don't bother looking.

Another strange mood struck --
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1112835047150583848/image.png)
Had to build a Jeweler for her (now that I can, xD) because that's apparently her highest moodable skill. All she grabbed was a rock crystal. Large perfect gem, maybe...?
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1112837008134508644/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1112837286237839481/image.png)
Nope. Didn't know you could get those from a jeweler mood, but ok. The image of tigers on the bracelet sounds pretty cool.

Spring invaded, and the elven caravan came. Nothing special, bought all the clothes I could of course. Though I am kinda concerned that I've still gotten no grizzly cubs from the ones I bought last year. I've also had peacocks, snapping turtles, alligator snapping turtles, AND a regular hen sitting all on nest boxes with 'forbidden' eggs, and absolutely nothing's hatched. Very strange. I'm wondering if I screwed something up somehow, or if I'm just insanely unlucky with unfertilized eggs? And perhaps gay bears? xDD Idk. Nothing I can do about it, so we'll see what happens by this time next year I guess.

Cruising through summer, got nearly everything ready for the next tribute. Humans, came, again nothing special/standout. With tribute basically finished, I've turned my attention to trying to finally get the hospital up and going, which involves making more bedrooms so the dwarves can move out of the hospital rooms where they have been staying, lol. Progress is slow (mostly because I'm indecisive on where I want to try and cram the bedrooms in). I did undertake to try and create a waterfall across the corridor that has the entrance to the hospital area. I've heard it's good for washing away contaminants. Not that I've had any issues with that in this fort. Mostly I just wanted to do it and see how it worked. It worked all right, despite the slowness of the bucket brigade adding water into the waterfall loop from my very-distant aquifer-reservoir.

Another mood --
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1118747675655938068/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1118749772317204550/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1118750066560225290/image.png)
Imagine creating a super-fancy coffin, claiming it for yourself as an 'heirloom' (how many times do they expect a coffin to be used anyway)... and decorating it with someone else achieving a masterpiece. Mostly this just serves to remind me that I also don't have any kind of cemetery/tombs set up, since nobody except Tosid has died (or gone 'missing'). Eh, it's on the list, but pretty far down. Still got lots of bedrooms to do.

Autumn came and we are elevated to a duchy! And I'd just gotten the Countess's rooms up to snuff, lol.

Requested the usual from them for next year (coal) and some flux (maybe I can make a few bits of steel?). In turn they hope for us to sell them cloth next year. Eh, unlikely, I've only just gotten my clothing industry barely started. But good to know.

First I delivered all tribute - due to a relative abundance of galena, I gave them lead pedestals and bars of lead for those two goals & bonuses. The swords were some silver (also from the galena) and some obsidian swords. Interestingly, I discovered that if you specify the wood to be used in the obsidian sword job... it becomes described as that wood's sword. So many of mine for example, were specified to be made of obsidian with a highwood hilt, and came out as "highwood swords". And they definitely looked wooden. The ones where I didn't specify were called obsidian short swords and definitely looked black. When delivering them for tribute, the ones labeled "highwood swords" were also near-worthless, maybe 30 coins or so compared to the "obsidian swords" which were usually worth about 120. I imagine because of this the highwood swords, if I were to use them in a fight, would also use wooden stats instead of obsidian stats. Bug? Anyway, they were delivered, along with a buttload of biscuits, and some semi-precious gems.

The only thing I could not get the bonus for was the gems. I had enough semi-precious to cover the demand, but have not seen a single one of the types specified for bonus. Still, that's 5 base rewards + 4 bonuses. Pretty darn good I feel.

The 4 bonuses come out to -3 impatience and +10 popcap.

For the 5 base rewards, I decided I still wanted to try and get a Leatherworker. A magma smelter would also be awesome, so I could start saving coal for future steel (if I ever get enough flux for it, or find some). So I went with 2 workshop draws. Then I decided I might as well take +5 popcap to bring the new popcap up to an even 50 (and allow a mayor, I guess xD Hopefully they elect my Duchess so I don't need another set of fancy rooms). Then the last two base rewards just went to +2 rep.

So, rolling the workshop rewards... It's getting tough now, I keep getting rolls that are all three workshops I already have. I'll just show the ones that finally showed something I didn't have yet.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1118780320221757510/image.png) - darn, gotta take the useless Fishery.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1118780628683472906/image.png) - and forced to take the regular Glass Furnace as well. Also completely useless since I already have the magma version. I guess I could use the regular one to gather sand for me if I wanted to do the gathering somewhere further away from the magma furnaces.

Well, that was a waste. I guess it removes them from the pool though so maybe next time...

And now to roll the tribute for next year...
Spoiler: Tribute rolls (click to show/hide)
Dang. I knew I'd been lucking out on these goals in the years thus far... and these are still achievable (I think), but I'm not sure I'll be able to get any of those bonuses. Let's see...

Goals for next year:

Seems like the Monarch wants my dwarves to continue having a clothing shortage. xD Maybe I can buy a bunch of plant cloth from the caravan before it leaves and make the hoods from that, and use my own yarn/wool for new clothes for my actual residents.

Final Status for Year 5:

As usual, I'll wait for the caravan to leave to check if my non-tribute exports gain me any more rep. Interestingly, at least so far I haven't seen any more holdings pop up yet for being elevated to a Duchy. I'm also growing increasingly worried about the world outside my fort. Nobody's come bothering me (thankfully -- I don't count the kea-people, or the occasional kobold, they're just nuisances) but based on the 'news and rumors' the traders deliver, there's LOTS of goblin kidnapping and siege/takeovers occurring. Mostly targeting elves, but definitely some dwarven and human settlements have fallen victim as well. Maybe once the new migrants come in I can/should focus on the military more. Even if I have to stick to iron weaponry instead of steel. I did manage to buy some steel bits and bobs off the caravan.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 19, 2023, 12:20:02 pm
A sneak peek for next year's update (hopefully posted either tonight or within the next couple of days) :

- There doesn't seem to be much of a limit on the size of migrant waves. Or at least I haven't found it yet. Dangit.
- My civ doesn't know how to make tunics. Shirts, fine. Tunics, nooooooooo. -facepalm-
- The goblins have found us! Or more precisely, they've found our children!
- I may or may not have started a war. With a militia of four dwarfs clad half in bone. I'm sure this is fine and there will be no repercussions whatsoever.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on June 20, 2023, 01:39:55 am
Surviving AND thriving! You are only 11 points away from the requisite 30 for a "win".

Quote
There doesn't seem to be much of a limit on the size of migrant waves.

you mean the waves are overwhelming? I've had waves of 30+ dwarves.. this can cause issues.

Quote
My civ doesn't know how to make tunics. Shirts, fine. Tunics, nooooooooo. -facepalm-

Hyrule, this is not.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 22, 2023, 06:32:39 pm
Quote from: Salmeuk on June 20, 2023, 01:39:55 am
you mean the waves are overwhelming? I've had waves of 30+ dwarves.. this can cause issues.
Yeah, I raised my popcap by 20 this last round (15 as shown from rewards above, and then 5 more from something that will occur in this post xD) and ALL 20 of them came at once. I was hoping for less, so that I'd finally get some breathing room between the actual pop and the limit, but nope I guess not.

Anyway! Year 6 recap!

Firstly, last year's caravan left, so I could check the exports -- 68k, up from 48k previous. That gets me +2 rep (now 21 rep).

As expected from becoming a Duchy, we got yet more settlements linking to us econonmically... but something is a bit strange here...
Spoiler: New Holding Announcements (click to show/hide)
So I investigate. Apparently the Whisper-Mirrors of Confusion is just the site government for the Acecaves hillocks that joined me. Very weird that I got all those notifications for Acecaves though and I've never seen that for any other holding before or since, yet. Maybe I should've looked into Shorast instead, but that'll be some other time.

Spoiler: A child has a mood... (click to show/hide)

Now to get to work on those tribute goals. I checked, and nope my civilization can not make tunics. It's not an option at the clothier. So that's one failed tribute goal right there. I know, I could probably just pick a different goal but.. eh I don't like the other goal options either. I'll take the fail. I can afford it. xD

I'm hoping to find quartzite for that one bonus goal. It's metamorphic, so there's a pretty good chance... I think. So I went to the stairs way off in the corner by my water reservoir and start digging down... Good news! I found some quartzite eventually (at level -40....) Bad(?) news! I hit the roof of an immensely tall cavern to do it. Immediately sealed off, of course. The only (living) thing I've seen down there is cave swallows and a Giant Mole (which actually looked pretty cool). But this means I need to roll an extra Cavern Tribute.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1120061848281161839/image.png)
The fortunate thing is that these goals are not affected by what year I'm in. So they're as 'easy' as Year-1 goals. I decide to take the chairs/thrones goal. 26 should be easy enough for the bonus. I hit the cavern on 5th Obsidian (Late-Winter), so I have until Late-Spring to deliver. And now I can start mining quartzite boulders for the tribute!

As a bonus, along the way to the quartzite I found some marble! So I also have flux now! Slowly I should be able to get some steel going.

Seriously though. This first cavern layer is SO tall. I'm not certain I can even see the bottom of this layer yet. But for sure it stretches from level -14 down to level -55. Most of it is just open air. I have seen some first-cavern trees on some ledges though, and first-cavern moss is now growing on the dirt areas in my fort so... I didn't actually hit two caverns at once or anything. It's all just one really tall layer.

Spoiler: Another mood... (click to show/hide)

By the time the elves came I was ready to atom-smash the thrones for that Cavern Tribute, so I did. Doing so got me a base reward (+1 rep, rep now 22) and a bonus +5 popcap (popcap now 55). Yeah I probably should've taken a workshop reward but I didn't think of it, oh well.

From the elves I bought a few more grizzlies, since I haven't had any cubs yet from my existing ones. Maybe these will be more compatible.

After the elves left, bam, migrant wave. Twenty(!) migrants, bringing me all the way back up to my full popcap. There were so many I didn't even screencap all the arrivals, so no pics, sorry. The fort is now up to 15 children total. At least some of these new kids are a -little- older, like 15.

So now that I'm over 50 pop, I got a mayor... fortunately they elected the Duchess. So I don't have to worry about 2 sets of rooms, heh.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1120171400125218918/image.png)

Spoiler: Another mood... (click to show/hide)

And then, disaster struck.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1120183127088828426/image.png)
WHAT. Goblins have never come to my fort. And how did they get her? Only 2 snatchers showed up and I killed one almost immediately, while the other one disappeared almost immediately. Neither one got anywhere near the fort. So it must've been the one that disappeared.... it was way up in the corner of the map near my reservoir. Endok might've been doing a hauling job up there. Ugh.
Spoiler: Endok's Overview (click to show/hide)
Awww dangit this makes me feel really sad (on top of kinda freaking out, because I've never had a kid snatched before). Endok is the only child that has been born in the fort, all the others migrated here. Her mother is one of the militia. Her father is our weaver. (and I really don't understand the 'freed' thought, because she was most definitely not freed...)

Now I may grouse and whine about the number of kids in the fort, yes, but once they're here, they are MINE. Ain't no gobbos taking my people! Especially one that was born here! So now I have to figure out how to get her back... with a militia of four dwarves total, decently trained but substandardly armored (half their stuff is bone, lol). Another mystery is how the gobbos found out about me. They were 'no contact' before this. All their lairs are basically on the other side of the world (admittedly, a small world, but still).

Spoiler: The Saga Of Recovering Endok (click to show/hide)

By the time all this was resolved, it's early autumn. The humans had come and gone. And I realized, I had effed up majorly. All this time I had been thinking I needed the quartzite for the 68 boulders goal. No. I need the quartzite for the 51 blocks goal. And I haven't cut a single block out of quartzite. So I quickly set up a big block-cutting job and prioritize it. Hopefully it will finish before the dwarves come. And now I need 68 boulders of something else. So I start digging some more.

Spoiler: Yet another mood... at least it's not a kid this time, and they took over a forge, so maybe....? (click to show/hide)

The dwarves have come! But the quartzite blocks aren't quite ready yet. Should be good before they leave though. Except... NO! I didn't specify what kind of blocks to cut! -facedesk- So while I do have some quartzite blocks now, it's not going to nearly be enough. I requeue the job properly, going specifically for quartzite blocks this time. I should still be able to make it in time.

While they worked, I delivered the rest of the tribute. Boulders were no problem, since I couldn't do the bonus I was able to deliver a mix of boulders that added up to 68 just fine. 25 plant-cloth hoods (mostly pig tail, some rope reed) were delivered for a bonus, and 27 random rough ornamental gems were also delivered (no bonus). Finally the quartzite blocks finished, so 51 quartzite blocks were delivered for a bonus.

So that comes out to 1 failed tribute (the tunics, +3 impatience), 4 successful tributes for base rewards, and 2 bonuses that total out to -2 impatience and +5 popcap. For the base rewards, since I still lack a tanner, leatherworker, and magma smelter, I'll go for 2 workshop draws, and +2 rep.

Workshop draws:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1121301531849928724/image.png)
Leatherworker! YAY!
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1121302018485669898/image.png)
Blast it, I have to take the regular kiln, since I don't have it yet. So that's a waste, but at least I got leatherworks.

Tribute Roll for next year:
Spoiler: Tribute Roll (click to show/hide)
Some of those numbers are getting dang high! But a relatively 'easy' roll I think...

Goals for next year:
This time I waited until the caravan left, so I could check the exports for rep right away -- we're up to 84k exports (from 68k previous), so +2 rep there.

Final Status for Year 6:

Now technically, the theft of a child cost me +3 impatience. But.. since I got them back very quickly -- even before the caravan arrived -- I figured that recovering them would nix or balance out the loss? What do you think? I'm okay with it if I still need to deduct impatience, just let me know.

But wait! 30 rep means... I've completed the challenge!! Huzzah! It was pretty fun. xD (and probably ended just in time, before the gobbos could come attack my fort lol).

Bonus Reel!

Finally got some grizzly cubs while the dwarven caravan was there!
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1121290589950980176/image.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1121291040549257246/image.png)
Awww <3
Note that it was the untrained bears that had cubs. Does becoming a war grizzly maybe prevent (or slow down) having cubs somehow? Hm.

And bonus 2....
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1121306233375305829/image.png)
My efforts to turn the Duchess's lover into a spouse have failed miserably, haha!![/list]
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on June 22, 2023, 11:30:06 pm
awesome update. feels weird to see someone else complete this random challenge I thought up but also very satisfying. . perhaps in the future these kinds of challenges will be incorporated into the base game through modding or scripts. they seem to make for good tutorials.

Quote
Well, since I can't make things any worse (can't I? heh), I send out the raid again. This time I alter the options to ONLY recover citizens of my civilization. And... success!! Stealth was achieved, nobody was hurt or killed, and Endok is returned to her family. Her mother on the militia was touchingly happy to be reunited with a loved one.

wow. I've never done that.. I would also say that earns you back the impatience, absolutely haha. brave soldiers indeed to assault the goblins as such.

what's next, a different fortress? continue onward with this one?


Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on June 23, 2023, 03:38:56 am
Quote from: BlueTrillium on June 22, 2023, 06:32:39 pm
Now technically, the theft of a child cost me +3 impatience. But.. since I got them back very quickly -- even before the caravan arrived -- I figured that recovering them would nix or balance out the loss? What do you think? I'm okay with it if I still need to deduct impatience, just let me know.
I'd think that if you recovered the child the impatience you got for losing it would be undone when the child was recovered.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 23, 2023, 03:01:10 pm
Thanks, all! xD

I'm definitely considering whether to just... continue running this fort (tributes and all) as if the challenge was still going, just to see if the goblins really do take me out when they start attacking. Maybe if I pre-emptively take back that human hamlet that's near my fort, that might discourage them... The population there is only 10~. With my grizzlies perhaps I could do it.

Though perhaps I might remove the popcap just to see how big my migrant waves can actually get. xDD Well, probably not yet. Not until I have bedrooms enough comfortably for what I've got (plus I don't want a monarch just yet).

And if the goblins don't obliterate me, then... well most likely I'll try starting out another fort again in a couple (game) years and see what else I can learn about. I've been kinda feeling the urge to attempt building a town-like above-ground fort. xD Maybe something oceanside? I haven't played with ocean yet, either. *ponders*

At any rate, I'll probably keep yearly-updating this thread as long as I keep playing this fort. *thumbs up*
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 24, 2023, 09:28:44 pm
Year 7 recap!

I played on through the end of autumn and all the way to late-winter... and then the game crashed, so I lost all of winter. This was both good and bad, as some things I was able to prep for better... but were perhaps a bit less fun since they weren't a surprise. xD At any rate, info below is of course from the second attempt at winter.

By the beginning of winter I was able to raze that goblin-held human settlement. It took three 'raze' actions to destroy the hamlet (the first one killed all the goblins, the second two did nothing, but after the last one, the hamlet was finally razed).

Just as I'd finished that, a wave of enemies attacked! First, three kobolds appeared and were taken care of, no problem. Then my first goblin 'vile force of darkness' showed up. Six goblins, half crossbows and half bows. Then, while I was fighting them, three goblin snatchers appeared. As you might guess, I have a bit of a major grudge against snatchers. They went down hard. xD One war dog was the only casualty on my side.

A lone dwarf was sent to demand tribute of the other dwarf civilization - tribute was declined, but they know my existence now and will hopefully send trade.

Spoiler: A child had a mood... (click to show/hide)
That's two artifact mugs my fort has now!

The Duchess demanded a black-bronze cabinet in her dining room. Fortunately I had no problem fulfilling that one.

I've built a 'vault room' to hold most of my artifacts thus far. Every artifact is in there now except for the two mugs, which in a fit of recklessness I am allowing the dwarves to actually use to drink from, lol!

Kea-people attacked... somehow they got inside my fort. There seems to be some kind of hole in the defenses somewhere around the covered pasture. This is at least the third time they've appeared in the pasture. I'm not sure where the hole is and I've tried several times to patch various spots that I thought might be the problem, but to no avail. I have one more idea to try... but I won't know if it's successful unless/until the kea people break in again. The attack from the kea-people injured a couple farmers, triggering the use of my hospital for the first time. Everything seemed to work well! Also, no dwarves died in the attack, but one kea-person escaped with a green glass toy hammer.

We hit the new year, and a cat and my only pig died of old age. :'( The cat had been a pet to my original miner/now militia commander, but was somehow un-pet-ified when the militia commander came back from the last raze mission. I don't know why, but I suppose it saved that dwarf a depressed thought over the loss. I'm still kinda depressed though. (I am very much a cat person.)

The elves came, and I bought a Giant Dingo to help guard the reservoir entrance (my dogs are getting... very thinly spread. As in I only had like 2 dogs left, one at the reservoir and one at the entrance to the fort). Other than that, just the usual elf stuff - clothes, wood.

Migrants came, bringing me back up to the popcap of 60, along with their pet goose and pet turkey (both male).

A petition was made for a farmer's guild! They call themselves the Guild of Buds, haha. Petition was accepted and fulfilled with no trouble.

My first forgotten beast appeared in the caverns!!
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1122216782476882001/image.png)
Made of MOONSTONE? And a webber? Yeah I'm glad I have the caverns sealed off. They actually sound like they'd be a really pretty monster though.

Early summer, another vile force of darkness briefly appeared and then disappeared again, apparently on their way elsewhere. I have no idea where they'd be going since we live on an isolated peninsula and passing us would be out of the way to... literally anywhere, but ok. However the snatchers that followed on the force of darkness's tail did not pass by. They tried to take on my Giant Dingo and a child. They lost, with some rather epic moves from the dingo (e.g. biting them on various areas and effectively shaking them to pieces). The child was slightly injured but healed up quickly in the hospital.

Human caravan arrived... and so did a strange mood. Unfortunately this mood wanted leather, and the humans weren't selling any (nor did I have any in stock). And I don't have a tanner to make my own. So the only thing for it was... Dive for a second cavern! Which I did. I dug and dug and dug.... and finally hit the roof of the third cavern, evidently bypassing the second cavern altogether. Purple fungus and bloodthorn everywhere! So I rolled for the extra cavern tribute...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1122252160541917224/image.png)
Of course I'll take the wood on that. No bonus, but 35 logs are easy enough to smash. I did so, and rolled for a workshop...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1122253751584030800/image.png)
YES, the Tanner! (and Dangit, there's the Magma Smelter I want, too... but I need the Tanner right now).

Spoiler: So the Mood was able to complete... (click to show/hide)
A lone mitten... into the vault with you.

We were scrambling to finish the coffins and blocks for the tribute. Not because of lack of materials, but because the dwarfs just wouldn't do it! I ended up building an extra Stoneworker workshop to help out, but we weren't quite done when the dwarves from the Monarch arrived. Still, we had time. And it took forever to haul everything to the trade depot, too. xD Mid-hauling, the caravan from the other dwarven civ also showed up! So I hauled even more, in hopes of having enough to grab all the goodies after delivering tribute.

While that was going on,
Spoiler: Yet another mood (click to show/hide)
Another one for the vault.

The stranger-dwarven caravan sent a liaison which gave us news, but did not open up a trade agreement for next year, so I couldn't ask them for anything. Maybe next year? But the Monarch's caravan wants these: (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1122266830292140182/image.png)

Managed to deliver all the tribute except a few straggling blocks to the Monarch's caravan before they packed up. I smashed the rest of the blocks. So I got 5 base goals succeeded, and 2 bonuses that totaled to +10 popcap. I waited for the caravan to get off the map and then checked -- my exports are 100k, up from 84k previously, so that's +2 more rep.

For base rewards, I still want that magma smelter so I'll try 1 workshop draw. The rest will be +4 rep.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1122297053318492171/image.png)
Drat, got stuck with Bowyer.

Spoiler: Tribute Roll (click to show/hide)
I'll take...
Goals for Next Year

And then I found out I have a bug in my random generator -- you can't make shields (or any armor) out of silver. Only weapons. The generator bug is fixed now so it won't happen again, but for the shields goal above I'll have to try for leather.

Final Status for Year 7:
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on June 25, 2023, 06:32:30 pm
Quote
And it took forever to haul everything to the trade depot, too. xD Mid-hauling, the caravan from the other dwarven civ also showed up!

I found this to be the most obnoxious part. you can generally attain the tributes, but the process of actually bringing them to the caravan took up equal amounts of time..

Quote
Kea-people attacked... somehow they got inside my fort. There seems to be some kind of hole in the defenses somewhere around the covered pasture. This is at least the third time they've appeared in the pasture. I'm not sure where the hole is and I've tried several times to patch various spots that I thought might be the problem, but to no avail. I have one more idea to try... but I won't know if it's successful unless/until the kea people break in again. The attack from the kea-people injured a couple farmers, triggering the use of my hospital for the first time. Everything seemed to work well! Also, no dwarves died in the attack, but one kea-person escaped with a green glass toy hammer.

keas.... my green nemesis. lock your doors tightly.

Quote
Made of MOONSTONE? And a webber? Yeah I'm glad I have the caverns sealed off. They actually sound like they'd be a really pretty monster though.

very beautiful indeed, until they paralyze and kill every member of your military and slowly pick off your citizens one-by-one as they carelessly trail into the caverns to pick up a sock,  or whatever . .

stability ai's take on the prompt "a moonstone shaped like a dinosaur" :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on June 25, 2023, 09:57:49 pm
Quote from: Salmeuk on June 25, 2023, 06:32:30 pm
stability ai's take on the prompt "a moonstone shaped like a dinosaur" :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That is abjectly terrifying xDD Even knowing AI's issues with features like hands and such, I just... can't help but wonder if the big ballooned out part is the head or the tail... except the other end definitely looks like a tail... except the 'feet' are pointing that way, so... xD
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on July 20, 2023, 10:51:44 pm
Finally finished Year 8!

Winter brought us another siege with the same old pattern - 3 kobolds, then a siege of about 10 gobbos (mostly shooters) and 3 snatchers. They killed my giant dingo. :c But the dingo earned a name for itself before it went! Otherwise, no issues/casualties on my side.

When the elves arrived in spring, I hoped to replace the giant dingo. Unfortunately they didn't have any... but they DID have several giant cougars. So of course I got those!

Another forgotten beast arrived in the cavern, no big deal...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1127827975497318410/image.png)

But THIS guy shows up on the surface!
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1127833410174468116/image.png)
I was worried because of her history of kills - at least 8 dwarfs had fallen to this guy elsewhere, among other creatures. But I needn't have worried. My squad took her down without a scratch. They took out her knees and legs until she fell over, then chopped her head off.

Spoiler: Another kid mood (click to show/hide)

Migrant wave arrived and brought us back to the popcap with 6 adults and 4 children -- though 2 of the children were 18 years old already apparently.

The summer invasion arrived and was taken care of no problem. Another forgotten beast arrived, but I feel like it might get taken out soon by the other one that came earlier, because that one has been taking out elk birds and crundles and gorlaks and plump helmet men left and right. But so far they haven't run into each other (at least not where I get an alert for it).
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1131722515148963901/image.png)

At this point I gave up on the shell-rings tribute goal. It only gives you one ring per shell when you are making rings specifically and there's just no way I was going to breed, butcher, and carve 90-some turtles in time. Maybe I might've gotten more rings if I took the chance on random crafts where you can get up to 3 per shell, but... nah. So I'm going to take an impatience hit, but I'm negative so it's nothing to even worry about.

Spoiler: Fey mood (click to show/hide)

The female Giant Cougars had cubs! I feel like both 'entrances' to the fort are pretty well-guarded now. Got about 6 giant cougars at each.

Four children total (over this year) grew into adults.

And I've got a grizzy-splosion on my hands. xDD Gonna have to link some more grizzlies up to my military and start sending them out against more sites, maybe hold back the goblin horde a little. Maybe next year.

And at last, the fall dwarf caravans arrived. Still no trade agreements with the other dwarf civ, but my own civ is requesting these for next year:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1131743914471206992/image.png)

Delivered tribute first - the windows (72 green glass), stones (97 mica), shields (26 leather), and 115 amulets (all animal wool). So four tributes succeeded (all with bonus), and one tribute failed. After the home-civ caravan left the map, I checked exports - 134k, up from 100k last year.

So now for rewards... I have 4 base rewards, 4 bonus rewards that total out to -5 imp and a workshop draw, a failed tribute (+3 imp), and +3 rep from the export value.
Rolling for the bonus workshop draw (come on, magma smelter)...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1131791876505206945/image.png)
YES! Magma Smelter!

All right so then for the base rewards I'll... honestly I'm not sure how much longer I'll play this fort. The hankering for trying out some new things grows stronger lol. But hm. Eh, let's do +10 popcap and +2 rep.

Spoiler: And next year's tribute rolls... (click to show/hide)

So now, the final recap!

Goals for Next Year

Final Status for Year 8:
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on July 21, 2023, 10:14:41 am
brilliant! the fortress chugs along nicely.
Quote
I was worried because of her history of kills - at least 8 dwarfs had fallen to this guy elsewhere, among other creatures. But I needn't have worried. My squad took her down without a scratch. They took out her knees and legs until she fell over, then chopped her head off.

Minotaurs suffer from what I will now deem "squishy body syndrome". Despite their strength and size they feel pain like any dwarf. Weapons are OP against such creatures, who often fall paralyzed in fear after the first wound, and are subsequently finished off like a butcher slicing up a ham roast. .  oof.

any further thoughts on the challenge design or difficulty? now that you've transcended the most challenging early days, I wonder what kind of 'random events' might occur, maybe some additional challenges or production needs. something to delay your all-too-smooth progression towards regal recognition.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on July 21, 2023, 02:26:17 pm
The hard part, I think, is figuring out a way to trigger additional events while still letting them be random. AND preferably not adding *too* much additional overhead on the player's part xD (I just now realized that I think I was supposed to get some kinda rep or imp reward for repelling all those sieges haha xD nbd though)

We could of course simply set times (e.g. each turn of the seasons perhaps) and then have another random generator with a (preferably large and varied) list of events that could occur at that time, possibly including 'nothing happens' as one or more of the options in there.

Or another trigger that prompts us to roll a new event might be 'whenever a new forgotten beast, titan, or (semi)megabeast, (or werecreature, or a siege? kobolds, snatchers?) appears'. That would be less structured than the turn of the seasons, take it a bit more out of our hands. Could be other things too -- every time an artifact is created, or every time migrants arrive, or every time a child grows into an adult or something.

Then the events themselves might be things like....
- nothing happens, no event this time
- an extra surprise tribute demand (similar to when we hit the caverns)
- a demand for us to raid (or even raze entirely?) the closest enemy site within x months
- a demand for us to 'acquire' the closest known artifact not held by our own/ally civilization within x months
- a demand or even a sudden unexplainable urge akin to a 'strange mood' to do a certain thing, like...
--- build something open to the public (tavern, guild, temple, library) and lure x amount of visitors
--- some other mini (but potentially useless/annoying) building project like... make a pump stack x pumps tall. It can be for whatever you like, or even for nothing, just make that pump stack. Add x cells to your jail/dungeon (or if you don't have one yet, make one with that # of cells). Make a beautiful room of x size and x materials... and then seal it off so no dwarf can use it. Idk. xD
--- purposely fail to deliver a tribute goal?
--- you *must* find the next cavern/magma sea by x months
--- send out x raids within the next y months
--- cut down x trees (and/or if you have an agreement with the elves, deliberately break it)
--- sacrifice/butcher x number of animals within y months. Even if you don't want the meat and/or had better use for those animals. And if you don't have a butcher shop yet... well better get creative and find another way xDD
--- find seeds for a crop you aren't currently growing, and grow x of it within the next year (and if all your crop space is full, well I guess you'll just have to sacrifice some of your usual crops to grow this!)
--- have at least x dwarves using a certain weapon in your militia, or alternatively, remove all dwarves using a certain weapon from your militia (switch them to a different weapon)
--- or create a full squad with x type of armor/weapons (e.g. a bone squad, a bismuth bronze squad, a leather/wood squad)
- something detrimental but without gameplay like (a rival spreads vile rumors about you in the monarch's ear, lose x rep)
- something positive without gameplay like (the monarch is unexpectedly fond of something in your last tribute, gain x rep)

Huh, well that's all that came to mind at the moment as I started typing, but actually that's more than I thought I'd come up with! xD I'll keep thinking on it though.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on July 22, 2023, 04:00:24 am
I'm liking the sound of some of those events you've come up with.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on July 22, 2023, 08:12:20 pm
Quote from: King Zultan on July 22, 2023, 04:00:24 am
I'm liking the sound of some of those events you've come up with.
Thanks! If you had any event ideas you particularly liked (or particularly disliked) and you wanted to share why, I'd be happy to hear! Might inspire more ideas.

-----

Meanwhile, completed year 9! This one went really fast, mostly due to a series of funky events...

Winter came, and with it the annual winter siege. This year, the snatchers appeared right on top of a child. Even with giant cougars around and the army nearby on its way, I couldn't stop them from snatching Fath.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1131811234602287104/image.png)
Having learned from last time, I immediately sent off a raid against the goblin settlement where the child was rumored to be held, with the goal of only returning missing citizens of my civ. The first raid was a success, but did not return the child. The second one (sent immediately after the first one returned) was also a success, and this time the child was retrieved. Fath was returned in less than a month.

Spoiler: Fey Mood (click to show/hide)

Then I noticed something odd. There was a large pile of forbidden goods near my trading post. Looking at the items I see some of them were pieces of the tribute I had sent to the monarch and others were goods I hadn't bought from the caravan. But -- there was no wagon wood. So a wagon did not die. No idea why one wagon would've dumped its gear and then kept going with the rest of the caravan but... I guess it's mine now. I smashed the items that were part of my tribute and dealt with the rest.

And after that... something even odder. It's winter, there's a snowstorm going on and piles of snow around... except some snowpiles are the wrong color. I hover over them and they say 'pile of sand' instead! This is totally new to me. It seems like the sand spreads based on traffic levels in the area, but yeah I'm seeing sand piles just about all over my map. Will be interested to see if they disappear once warm weather comes. Maybe this 'sand pile' behavior is something new added in that latest update?
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1131822118695346237/image.png)

Then out of the blue one of the giant cougars died. There was no fight going on, no logs other than the cougar's, which seemed to indicate it had fallen or been thrown somehow. But this was on the surface in a wide open space, in an uncrowded pasture. My best guess is something (maybe the past winter siege?) had startled it up into a tree and now for some reason it fell down (the tree was not chopped) and, essentially, broke its neck and suffocated to death.

The elves came and went (got some more giant dingoes to add to my giant cougars). No tree demands. Migrants came but stopped one short of meeting the popcap. Population is now 79. And surprisingly, all the migrants were adults! The usual crop of low and useless skills, a 'talented optics engineer' (what's that lol), and a skilled speardwarf that is destined to start my next squad as I expand the military to start using up bears.

Then came summer -- and a siege. But this time, they wanted to parley. They demanded an artifact -- probably the cheapest one in my fort, a gabbro toy axe -- to go away peacefully. I considered it, but there were only like 10 gobbos there. So I decided to experiment with the exploit that lets you strip parleying forces naked lol. xD (At the same time, I got a petition to build a craftsdwarf guildhall, which I accepted to get it out of the way.) Except the gobbos kept coming... and coming... until there were 39 of them! But my mayor/duchess had gotten thirsty waiting for me to say yay or nay and left to get a drink. So I couldn't change my mind now. I frantically kept stripping the new gobbos as they came and making sure my military was nearby. The mayor/duchess finished her drink.... and got re-elected. I'm not certain the re-election is what triggered it, but suddenly the (mostly-but-not-fully-stripped) gobbos were attacking. So I attacked back. And we won! But one dwarf (a new member of the militia) got surrounded and killed. Two more dwarves were injured enough to go to the hospital, but recovered. The dead dwarf's two grizzlies hung out around the site of his death -- one of them also grievously injured, but slowly recovering. Until it, too, died (of infection -- without that, I think the bear would've recovered). It was pretty sad.

I got the dwarf buried and checked out his memorial engravings -- apparently Kol had led a rather interesting life before joining my fort. He'd gotten divorced, got apprenticed (to a goblin!), and written at least a couple papers/books. Then the poor soul came here, joined the militia, befriended two grizzlies, and... had every single tooth knocked out of his head and both ears cut off before he died (seriously his coffin contains 10 teeth, 2 ears, and the rest of his corpse). His bear was given a slab next to him.

And... there was no human caravan this year. I assume the siege kept them away, but there was no notice of it at all.

Also, the sand piles did not disappear with warm weather. They are still all over, and spreading. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of ground is underneath the sand pile - I've got sand on top of rock and grass, as well as exposed sandy loam. No idea. xD I could probably pave over it, but... eh.

Spoiler: Another mood (click to show/hide)

A lone migrant arrived, replacing the dead Kol and bringing the population back up to 79 (why not the cap of 80, I have no idea).

I sent out a raid to the nearest settlement (a dwarf settlement the gobbos had taken over) at the end of summer. Per the report, my tactics were superior, but for some reason the defenders still had positional advantage. We fought, killed some gobbos, no losses, etc, but came back with no spoils either.

Spoiler: Forgotten Beasts throughout the year (click to show/hide)

So now it's autumn. Both dwarf caravans arrive, along with one last lone migrant, finally bringing us up to 80 pop. For next year my civ wants:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1132426181447262248/image.png)
I delivered all the tribute - 26 soap, 16 plant thread, 24 wool yarn, and 174 biscuits. So five base goals filled, no bonus for the soap or thread/yarn, but the bonus for the biscuits comes out to -1 imp and +5 popcap. I lost a dwarf, but it was to a siege so I don't think I'm penalized for that one. Once the caravans left, exports to my civ were at 152k, up from 134k last year, for +2 rep. For the 5 base rewards I will... hm. I guess +5 more popcap to make it an even 90, and the rest goes to +4 rep.

Spoiler: Tribute Roll for next Year (click to show/hide)
Not so easy this year haha.

Goals for Next Year

Final Status for Year 9:
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: King Zultan on July 24, 2023, 05:16:11 am
Quote from: BlueTrillium on July 22, 2023, 08:12:20 pm
Quote from: King Zultan on July 22, 2023, 04:00:24 am
I'm liking the sound of some of those events you've come up with.
Thanks! If you had any event ideas you particularly liked (or particularly disliked) and you wanted to share why, I'd be happy to hear! Might inspire more ideas.
I probably should have mentioned the ones I liked when I posted that, anyway these are the ones.
Quote from: BlueTrillium on July 21, 2023, 02:26:17 pm
Then the events themselves might be things like....
- a demand for us to raid (or even raze entirely?) the closest enemy site within x months
- a demand for us to 'acquire' the closest known artifact not held by our own/ally civilization within x months
- a demand or even a sudden unexplainable urge akin to a 'strange mood' to do a certain thing, like...
--- build something open to the public (tavern, guild, temple, library) and lure x amount of visitors
--- some other mini (but potentially useless/annoying) building project like... make a pump stack x pumps tall. It can be for whatever you like, or even for nothing, just make that pump stack. Add x cells to your jail/dungeon (or if you don't have one yet, make one with that # of cells). Make a beautiful room of x size and x materials... and then seal it off so no dwarf can use it. Idk. xD
- something detrimental but without gameplay like (a rival spreads vile rumors about you in the monarch's ear, lose x rep)
- something positive without gameplay like (the monarch is unexpectedly fond of something in your last tribute, gain x rep)
I quite like the first two as they tie into parts of the game that the challenge hasn't dealt with so far and allows for interesting stories to emerge. The third reminds me of the some of the strange things nobles would demand to be built for no other reason than to show off to other nobles and it feels like it would fit in with the challenge of keeping the nobility happy. And the last remind me of the bickering between the nobles because they had nothing better to do and while their bickering didn't really hurt each other it could cause harm to those below them.


Also if seems like you should get some kind of penalty for a artifact getting stolen, since they otherwise don't really tie into the challenge other than gaining impatiens for the moody dwarf dying.
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on July 27, 2023, 08:57:30 pm
Quote
Then the events themselves might be things like....
- nothing happens, no event this time
- an extra surprise tribute demand (similar to when we hit the caverns)
- a demand for us to raid (or even raze entirely?) the closest enemy site within x months
- a demand for us to 'acquire' the closest known artifact not held by our own/ally civilization within x months
- a demand or even a sudden unexplainable urge akin to a 'strange mood' to do a certain thing, like...
--- build something open to the public (tavern, guild, temple, library) and lure x amount of visitors
--- some other mini (but potentially useless/annoying) building project like... make a pump stack x pumps tall. It can be for whatever you like, or even for nothing, just make that pump stack. Add x cells to your jail/dungeon (or if you don't have one yet, make one with that # of cells). Make a beautiful room of x size and x materials... and then seal it off so no dwarf can use it. Idk. xD
--- purposely fail to deliver a tribute goal?
--- you *must* find the next cavern/magma sea by x months
--- send out x raids within the next y months
--- cut down x trees (and/or if you have an agreement with the elves, deliberately break it)
--- sacrifice/butcher x number of animals within y months. Even if you don't want the meat and/or had better use for those animals. And if you don't have a butcher shop yet... well better get creative and find another way xDD
--- find seeds for a crop you aren't currently growing, and grow x of it within the next year (and if all your crop space is full, well I guess you'll just have to sacrifice some of your usual crops to grow this!)
--- have at least x dwarves using a certain weapon in your militia, or alternatively, remove all dwarves using a certain weapon from your militia (switch them to a different weapon)
--- or create a full squad with x type of armor/weapons (e.g. a bone squad, a bismuth bronze squad, a leather/wood squad)
- something detrimental but without gameplay like (a rival spreads vile rumors about you in the monarch's ear, lose x rep)
- something positive without gameplay like (the monarch is unexpectedly fond of something in your last tribute, gain x rep)


there are a lot of good ideas here. but how would we define the balance for these requests?

we could limit the rate of these requests to a certain number a year. one every season. or one request every full moon. or some arbitrary IRL timeframe even, like every hour of gameplay

taking that rate of requests, we could make it variable and affix it to some other aspect of gameplay. such as population - every ten dwarves you control, the rate of requests increases by %10. this seems like it might be unclear for the players, however

taking a step back, we could set the rate limit to once every season, but then balance the size of the requests as per the current version of this challenge, with similar logic as described above. This is the fun option because you might get insane, specific or wacky requests, which goes along with the whole, "appeasing the mad queen" narrative.

one might want to smooth each request into a balanced package, but over-balancing here would ruin the texture and work against that narrative. You would want each request to be a sort of reward-in-itself, something that triggers the imagination as to how one might actually fullfill it.... you know, when I was playing this challenge myself I couldn't help but feel bored by some of the requests. "Ah, yes, more wood for the wood god..."

Avoiding this boredom would involve tailoring the requests either by hand, or rephrasing the current generation system.

Quote
The third reminds me of the some of the strange things nobles would demand to be built for no other reason than to show off to other nobles and it feels like it would fit in with the challenge of keeping the nobility happy. And the last remind me of the bickering between the nobles because they had nothing better to do and while their bickering didn't really hurt each other it could cause harm to those below them.

yeah this is spot on. we cannot dilute the feeling of the "nobility being nobility" trope .

a real sadist would start generating requests for specific combinations of studded materials, like metals or gems. that would drive any player insane... ahahah

Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on July 28, 2023, 12:44:37 pm
Quote from: Salmeuk on July 27, 2023, 08:57:30 pm
a real sadist would start generating requests for specific combinations of studded materials, like metals or gems. that would drive any player insane... ahahah

Heh heh... well I mean, most of the framework (lists of materials and such) is already there in the current generator. I could probably come up with something... -ponders-
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on July 30, 2023, 09:33:59 am
Completed Year 10. This summer was a doozy -- through my own fault, haha.

The year started out pretty quietly. I started sending raids occasionally against the closest goblin-held forts and locations, but nothing much yet.

Spoiler: Possessed Mood (click to show/hide)

No issues with the winter siege. Spring came, and a war dog died of old age. Kea-people continue to annoy me (seems to be every Spring and Fall) and I kill them whenever I can. The elves came with nothing special (I have plenty of animals now, probably too much haha) but they're good for augmenting the clothing supply. Seven migrants came (5 adults, 2 children, and their pets alpaca and cavy) bringing the total population to 87 (out of a cap of 90).

Even the forgotten beasts seem to have slowed down, perhaps... this was the only one to arrive this year.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1134614932441280622/image.png)

Spoiler: Fey Mood (click to show/hide)

I managed to raze and destroy one goblin-held dwarf hillock in Spring, and I already had all my tributes ready for Fall. Sooo... at the end of Spring, I sent out another raid on the goblins.

Big mistake.

I didn't even think about the summer goblin siege. But as soon as my raiders (all my steel military) left, the season changed to summer. A few more days and.... Goblin siege arrived. And all I had to fight them off was my 'stress squad' - six poorly-equipped (I'm talking leather and wooden shields; no weapons, even) dwarves that wanted military training but were extremely prone to stress from actual fighting, including my Duchess.

I suppose the smart thing would've been to (try to) get everyone inside, close the drawbridge, and wait for my army to come back while letting my giant guard cougars and dingoes take the brunt of the attack until then. I, of course, did not do the smart thing.

No, instead I was like, 'Oh, my army should return any time now, let's station the stress squad out there, get them some experience. They can hold off the siege alongside the animals until the army arrives.' I'm sure you can guess where this is going.

On the plus side, we won. Not the usual three, but FIVE snatchers, and eighteen goblin fighters (most of which were bow- and crossbow-gobs). All dead or fled (mostly dead), no children stolen. But on our losses... several giant cougars and dingoes, a war dog, and Kol's remaining war grizzly (remember, Kol was the dwarf that died in the parley-siege last year alongside his first grizzly -- this was his second one, left behind no longer). And three dwarves from the stress squad. Among them the squad leader and a fave of mine, Zas Floorcrystals. You may (or probably may not) remember her as the super-stressy child and young dwarf that I was always yelling at for sleeping on the floor when she had a perfectly good bedroom. One of the first migrant children, and one of the dwarves I actually know by name.

At least she went down epically. She went into a martial trance, absolutely destroying goblins with her shield until it literally broke in her hands, then punching and biting and throwing like a whirlwind. The gobbos continually shot arrows at her but everything missed - not even blocked by the shield, but missed. The trance ran out and she passed out from exhaustion, and they still couldn't hit her. (I like to think the others in the squad protected her until she got back up.) But get back up she did, and took out even more goblins, yanking off goblin helms left and right... and finally took the one and only hit she got in the fight - an arrow through the neck. And still kept fighting, taking down one more goblin before she finally succumbed.

Hers wasn't the only epic bit of the fight, but there were so many notifications it was the only one I managed to follow all the way through. Other notable moments included Sazkul her uncle literally caving in a goblin skull with a sock that he picked up somewhere. (No it was not his own sock, and yes Sazkul survived, though injured).

And then the fight was over. Three dwarves including Zas dead, the other three stress-squaddies including Sazkul and the Duchess surviving but wounded, limping back to the hospital. The Duchess was fine for the most part, but the other two were deep in the red, stress-wise. All I could do was give them the best care I could.

So of course, NOW is when the steel-clad army returns. And to add insult to injury, they don't even bring back any loot from the raid, lol. And while they're still trickling in...
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1134657109305344010/image.png)
Yeah, she was no problem. A spear dwarf gutted her and then stabbed her through the head before she even got close.

Amidst all of that... the human caravan came. Seemingly unperturbed by all the chaos and cleanup and mourning, they just traipsed right in. I offloaded most of the goblinite on them.

Four migrants arrived - three to replace those that died, plus an extra -- who arrived 'Drowning in Sorrow!' and happens to be Zas's aunt, and sister-in-law to another dwarf that died. She went straight to her sister (the wife of the dead dwarf) and cheered up with 'joy at reuniting with a loved one'. I'll choose to ignore the fact that the widowed dwarf and their one child in the fort don't appear to notice that he's dead yet. Population is now 89 out of 90.

So, since the summer siege was over, in revenge I sent out my soldiers again to raze that goblin hillock... and succeeded. Two goblin-held hillocks destroyed this year.

Spoiler: Secretive Mood (click to show/hide)

And so Fall arrives and with it the caravan from the Monarch... Next year they want goblets and crowns (not that I ever seem to pay attention to that). Though I recall that armor is one of the things they want this year... well I still have a bunch of goblinite to get rid of, so that's fortunate.

Tribute was delivered -- 27 silver chains, 38 bone crossbows, 114 microcline boulders, 46 copper maces, and a very annoying 162 raw meat (mostly from my turtles). That gives me all five base rewards (I'll just do +5 rep) and all five bonus rewards which total out to +10 popcap and -5 impatience. Three artifacts for +3 rep. Once the caravan left, I was at 163k exports, up from 152k last year, for +1 more rep. I lost those three dwarves, but it was all due to siege so I think no penalty there.

Spoiler: Tribute Rolls for Next Year (click to show/hide)

Goals for Next Year:

Final Status for Year 10:

------------------------

I've been poking around in my random generator looking to add those extra/random goals we talked about. Nothing functional yet, but I got the option added. I'll link it up again when I have something to show. xD
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: BlueTrillium on September 10, 2023, 02:55:18 pm
I've been pulled away from DF for a bit, trying out Minecraft. xD I can't say I'm totally back yet, but I did find some time to start adding the extra random events into my version of the generator. Definitely not fully-fleshed out yet, and nothing requesting items with specific materials, etc, but if anyone feels like they want to take a look, feel free:

Blue's Experimental Against the Storm generator (https://perchance.org/studqkotec)
Title: Re: Against the Storm inspired challenge
Post by: Salmeuk on September 18, 2023, 11:36:31 am
awesome. I have been streaming more, I might try a challenge run of this in the future, using your generator. thanks again for the awesome back-and-forth in regards to designing this challenge.