I’d be in, but I suspect people who weren’t mafia that game might have felt a little burned by the setup.I promise no Machinegun for Mafia
Hello! If beginners are allowed, I'd like to sign up.Glad to have you!
I'm new to forum games in general, but I have played regular Mafia before.
It's been a couple ofFixed that for you :Pdaysweeks since this game got posted (AND it's still the top non-sticked thread after all this time? Bay12 mafia subforum confirmed ded???) but I'll join this..
In
Been a while since I've played something like this, but in?
Signups have been open for a while, so could people confirm they are actually IN?
I'll also leave sign ups open till Thursday, August 24th at 6pm EST, since 9 would be better than 7.
The Canadian kitten: Why is your username written in sentence case?
sofanthiel: What did you do wrong last game? How is it going to affect your play this game?
Crystalizedmire: If you had to pick now, who would you shoot tonight? Also pretty please don't draw me being an idiot after this is all over, even if I turn out to be one. I'll cry. :-\Okay so who would I shoot. Uhhh, *uses random number generator* Elephant Parade.
NJW2000: I know nothing about you as a mafia player, what should I know about you?Well I only played one game of mafia before and in that one I did terrible. If you're curious, it was called "Traitor's Dagger Mini-Mafia" and I won as scum because other players failed to post at all. Undeserved, people saw through me from a mile away.
Quarque: As above.
sofanthiel: You said you're going to accuse others because you don't want to be lynched. If you're a town player, winning does not depend on whether you are lynched or not, are you aware of this?
Elephant Parade: If you were able and had to lynch someone right now, who would it be?I found MaximumSpin's post slightly odd so I guess he's marginally, and I mean marginally, more likely to be scum than anyone else at this point. So him or one of my fellow newbies.
Elephant Parade: Do you perceive any unique challenges or issues from this set up compared to a regular game?In a normal game, most or all of the town's killing power comes from day eliminations, which are determined by consensus. In this game, much of the town's killing power comes from nightkills, which are determined by the individual. Using our kills judiciously will be a challenge for all of us.
Elephant Parade: what's with the silly questions?The question I aimed at MS was quite serious. The question I aimed at TKc wasn't, but it was something that'd been bugging me for a while.
Crystalizedmire: So nothing anyone has said has given you any opinion about their alignment? Not even any faint stirrings in your gut, saying "they're hiding something"? No other reasons to want someone alive or dead?Crystalizedmire: If you had to pick now, who would you shoot tonight? Also pretty please don't draw me being an idiot after this is all over, even if I turn out to be one. I'll cry. :-\Okay so who would I shoot. Uhhh, *uses random number generator* Elephant Parade.
MaximumSpin: Not everybody posts the day the game starts, especially when it starts in the evening. Why declare your absence in advance?I always like to get the first post if I can, to set the tone. But I thought you'd like to be aware that I wouldn't be making a second one at that juncture.
I found MaximumSpin's post slightly odd so I guess he's marginally, and I mean marginally, more likely to be scum than anyone else at this point. So him or one of my fellow newbies.You really dislike any challenge to the status quo, huh?
I don't really know what questions to ask during this time which I'm assuming would be RVS unless I assume wrong.It's only RVS if you decide to V R-ly.
Maximum Spin: Of the people here, who would you want for a scum partner?Known fun-hater NJW2000.
Nobody has given me an opinion of their alignment either because I'm bad at reading people, the conversation ball hasn't gotten moving yet, or both.Crystalizedmire: So nothing anyone has said has given you any opinion about their alignment? Not even any faint stirrings in your gut, saying "they're hiding something"? No other reasons to want someone alive or dead?Crystalizedmire: If you had to pick now, who would you shoot tonight? Also pretty please don't draw me being an idiot after this is all over, even if I turn out to be one. I'll cry. :-\Okay so who would I shoot. Uhhh, *uses random number generator* Elephant Parade.
Don't hide behind dice rolls or helplessness. You're going to have to play at some point, might as well start now.
Also, aren't there certain prerequisites to shooting someone, or is it a foregone conclusion?
I always like to get the first post if I can, to set the tone. But I thought you'd like to be aware that I wouldn't be making a second one at that juncture.Fair enough.
It worked, anyway: the next two posts both directly responded to it.
Did I not emphasize the word marginally enough?I found MaximumSpin's post slightly odd so I guess he's marginally, and I mean marginally, more likely to be scum than anyone else at this point. So him or one of my fellow newbies.You really dislike any challenge to the status quo, huh?
Don't hide behind dice rolls or helplessness. You're going to have to play at some point, might as well start now.
It is unsurprising to me that CM had no scumreads eight posts into the game. The phrasing of Maxine's question also implied that they had to shoot, so why are you acting like they're dumb for assuming they did? I'm getting weird vibes from you, NJW.Crystalizedmire: So nothing anyone has said has given you any opinion about their alignment? Not even any faint stirrings in your gut, saying "they're hiding something"? No other reasons to want someone alive or dead?Crystalizedmire: If you had to pick now, who would you shoot tonight? Also pretty please don't draw me being an idiot after this is all over, even if I turn out to be one. I'll cry. :-\Okay so who would I shoot. Uhhh, *uses random number generator* Elephant Parade.
Don't hide behind dice rolls or helplessness. You're going to have to play at some point, might as well start now.
Also, aren't there certain prerequisites to shooting someone, or is it a foregone conclusion?
The Canadian kitten: What is your favourite Star Wars movie? And what sort of third party do you think we'll see, if any?
Give me some time to come up with questions to ask.Sure, just specify which ones you don't have meta knowledge for
Should I be posting scumreads even if I largely lack the meta knowledge to properly read some people?
Oh, now he posts. Voting anyway.Still self-conscious. Is this just due to being the D1 elim last game?
Nobody has given me an opinion of their alignment either because I'm bad at reading people, the conversation ball hasn't gotten moving yet, or both.I see. And my other question?
It is unsurprising to me that CM had no scumreads eight posts into the game. The phrasing of Maxine's question also implied that they had to shoot, so why are you acting like they're dumb for assuming they did? I'm getting weird vibes from you, NJW.Don't defend people until they've finished answering my questions. And DO NOT answer questions for them.
Self-centered bastard that I am, I decided that calling you out on what seemed like a forced-even-for-RVS line of attack was more important than letting CM respond to it properly.It is unsurprising to me that CM had no scumreads eight posts into the game. The phrasing of Maxine's question also implied that they had to shoot, so why are you acting like they're dumb for assuming they did? I'm getting weird vibes from you, NJW.Don't defend people until they've finished answering my questions. And DO NOT answer questions for them.
Sofanthiel is schooling you here, EP.
Do you think you could apply your wealth of mafia knowledge to working out why I would force a line of attack during RVS?
Self-centered bastard that I am, I decided that calling you out on what seemed like a forced-even-for-RVS line of attack was more important than letting CM respond to it properly.Come on, man. I found it forced even by RVS standards. You might disagree, obviously, but at least acknowledge what I said.
The reason I didn't answer the other question is because I that it meant if there were certain enforced prerequisites to shooting someone. Since I'm new here it seems like I'll just shoot anyone who I find suspicious and other people know who that person is but I haven't tested this rule out.Nobody has given me an opinion of their alignment either because I'm bad at reading people, the conversation ball hasn't gotten moving yet, or both.I see. And my other question?
Fair enough. Unvote.The reason I didn't answer the other question is because I that it meant if there were certain enforced prerequisites to shooting someone. Since I'm new here it seems like I'll just shoot anyone who I find suspicious and other people know who that person is but I haven't tested this rule out.Nobody has given me an opinion of their alignment either because I'm bad at reading people, the conversation ball hasn't gotten moving yet, or both.I see. And my other question?
Elephant Parade.I am aware that people sometimes force lines of attack in RVS and that there are legitimate reasons to do so. I thought your attack was EXTREMELY forced, so much so that it stood out even in RVS. I thought that the value to town from immediately asking wtf you were smoking exceeded the value from letting CM naturally respond, as I think genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones.
There are unforced lines of attack during RVS, I've caught people two posts into the game before. So I have no idea what the massive text in your post even means.
In any case, forced bullshit in RVS is useful. It can make people slip up, get tempers flaring, set scum on edge. It makes waves and gets the game going. It can lead to people revealing that they're much more nervous than they should be.
Of course, it can't do any of that if an experienced player swoops in, answers questions for the newer one, and attacks the person making waves in RVS. But that's even more interesting.
Voting Sofanthiel.Don't hide behind dice rolls or helplessness. You're going to have to play at some point, might as well start now.
*Rolls a D9*
Uh, NJW2000.
Crystalizedmire: Did you learn anything from the previous game that was ran?Yes! I have learned that sometimes a scum would rat out their scum partner even though neither of them is under threat.
Elephant Parade: What sort of vibes and why are you getting those weird vibes from NJW2000?For the fourth time, NJW's attack on CM felt extremely forced to me. I think that's scummy because multiple factors (desire to push the conversation in a particular direction, difficulty coming up with 'genuine' attacks except against a real or imagined third party) incentivize scum to force attacks.
Quarque: Did you learn anything from Traitor's Dagger mini-mafia?The main lesson was that if you run a game of mafia it is a good idea to check if all players are still on board.
Maximum Spin: What is the status quo you're referring to? if you don't mind me asking?It's like this, but with different people:
2. (not relevant to this game) That "asshole" Web is town Web (i think).Except when he isn't, which is always, especially when he is.
sofanthiel: The fact that you're rolling a D9 implies that you could have self-voted. Are you willing to do so, even its harmful to your continued presence of playing this game?
Voting Sofanthiel.
I see multiple scumtells and you aren't completely new to the game anymore.
You seem to primarily show interest in your own survival.
No effort so far to prod people or actively figure them out.
Using your vote to punish people for voting on you (ie trying to survive) - and / or a random vote.
I hope you understand why this looks suspicious?
NJW2000: Honestly don't know what to ask other than how likely is everyone just going to shoot everyone? Based on when you last played thisIf we don't learn from last time I played this, 90-100% chance most players die N1.
I am aware that people sometimes force lines of attack in RVS and that there are legitimate reasons to do so. I thought your attack was EXTREMELY forced, so much so that it stood out even in RVS. I thought that the value to town from immediately asking wtf you were smoking exceeded the value from letting CM naturally respond, as I think genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones.I see. The RVS attack was not just forced, but unusually forced. And genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones. That would be a satisfying answer, if you'd made a real attack.
Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.It started yesterday
I didn't reiterate my question because you had already answered it by implication. Your attack was forced; the details of it, therefore, were also forced. I guess I could've pressed you on them anyway, but I thought your attack on me was more interesting and not worth distracting from.I am aware that people sometimes force lines of attack in RVS and that there are legitimate reasons to do so. I thought your attack was EXTREMELY forced, so much so that it stood out even in RVS. I thought that the value to town from immediately asking wtf you were smoking exceeded the value from letting CM naturally respond, as I think genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones.I see. The RVS attack was not just forced, but unusually forced. And genuine attacks are more valuable than forced ones. That would be a satisfying answer, if you'd made a real attack.
What did you hope to gain by jumping in right away and defensively?
Surely if I'd continued to push on CM in such a dubious way, I'd have incriminated myself further. Or heck, assuming they snapped under pressure, we might have gained some insight into their alignment. I might even have convinced them to actually go out on a limb and post a gut read. But instead... you answered someone else's question, and didn't even follow up your own question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181688.msg8497657#msg8497657). You don't really seem interested in finding scum.
I'm not so sure you wanted to put pressure on me - Sofanthiel did that the right way, with a vote. I think you wanted to take pressure away from CrystalizedMire.
Max: apart from Sofa, is anyone looking fun enough for you to let them live?Is the couch fun? I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Snowkiller might be fine too. Everyone else is ON NOTICE.
Not entirely sure about what you've said or done since but I liked how timely and genuine this answer felt when I read it. Though such reflection would have happened prior to this game, so the answer itself doesn't really indicate either way. Possibly a poor question. I think you've stayed true to those words thus far for what little it is worth to me.sofanthiel: What did you do wrong last game? How is it going to affect your play this game?
I maintained neutrality under the guise of informed indecisiveness for the majority of day 1. The effect of this mistake on my play was already pretty apparent on the second day of that same game; I don't want to be lynched, so I'm going to more freely take sides and accuse others.
Well, I expected there to be more content for you to come to an answer with by the time you answered. However I'm wondering if you could come up with a more useful answer than "I used rng" if I asked again now? Otherwise I might think you don't actually want to engage with me. If EP does die either today or tonight, and comes up town, are you going to use this as your defence? CrystalizedmireCrystalizedmire: If you had to pick now, who would you shoot tonight? Also pretty please don't draw me being an idiot after this is all over, even if I turn out to be one. I'll cry. :-\Okay so who would I shoot. Uhhh, *uses random number generator* Elephant Parade.
Noted, assuming it is as long as the name suggests, I'll give it a read over. Hopefully this game goes better and whoever wins can say they deserved it.NJW2000: I know nothing about you as a mafia player, what should I know about you?Well I only played one game of mafia before and in that one I did terrible. If you're curious, it was called "Traitor's Dagger Mini-Mafia" and I won as scum because other players failed to post at all. Undeserved, people saw through me from a mile away.
Quarque: As above.
Why did you mention your role this early, by the way?
I see, I was going to ask if we all should agree on who to shoot before day end, but you already stated your opinion on that further in. I suppose it will probably be easy enough to figure out for some people anyway.Elephant Parade: Do you perceive any unique challenges or issues from this set up compared to a regular game?In a normal game, most or all of the town's killing power comes from day eliminations, which are determined by consensus. In this game, much of the town's killing power comes from nightkills, which are determined by the individual. Using our kills judiciously will be a challenge for all of us.
Ah, a fellow countryman. If you don't mind a follow up, since you've got the experience, is there anything we should know about Maximum Spin?I'm reasonably experienced, have a strong daygame focus, am known to make mistakes when I get overinvolved or tired with the game. I'm pretty good at reading some of the frequent bay12 mafia players, but a lot of people here are new to me.
NJW2000: I know nothing about you as a mafia player, what should I know about you?
I'm UK based and have a job, so will be mostly around from 18:00-24:00 GMT, and a bit more throughout the day
I can't help but notice you cut off the second question. Why would you want NJW2000 to be your scum partner? I mean, I can kinda see why, but I want to hear your answer if possible.Maximum Spin: Of the people here, who would you want for a scum partner?Known fun-hater NJW2000.
Finally able to do this stuff nowGood choice. I was asking less about flavour/lore and more about the roles but that is on me for asking a non-game question and a game question.
The Canadian kitten: What is your favourite Star Wars movie? And what sort of third party do you think we'll see, if any?
Revenge of the Sith is my favourite, and if we have a third party I think it might be something from the Zann Consortium due to it being one of the factions in Empire of war I think, and according to Wookiepedia, they were attacking both Empire and rebels and corrupting systems for piracy.
Other than that, no other clues about which star wars faction would be powerful enough to want to sabotage the Empire
Who knows, maybe the Ewoks?
Give me some time to come up with questions to ask.
Should I be posting scumreads even if I largely lack the meta knowledge to properly read some people?
Maxine: What makes you think that you will play poorly/stupidly?Ah, what I said to Crystal. It was mostly an extra attempt to interact, get things moving, that they chose to ignore. But I suppose, I haven't played forum mafia before, knowing myself, and having seen more experienced players screw up, I figure I'm not going to do better on the first go.
Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.I could understand not wanting to talk about your last game, but ignoring the questions entirety and doing nothing isn't going to do you any favours. Snowkiller do you not have anything you want to do or say today?
you answered someone else's question, and didn't even follow up your own question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181688.msg8497657#msg8497657). You don't really seem interested in finding scum.
ok, NJW didn't vote for you, he just pressured. In any case, yes I saw your earlier argument but I think it's unconvincing - prioritizing survival is still a typical scum tell, especially when someone seems to put little effort into figuring people out. Anyway, your explanation shows that you actually did put some thought into figuring people out and is enough to make me revote.sofanthiel: The fact that you're rolling a D9 implies that you could have self-voted. Are you willing to do so, even its harmful to your continued presence of playing this game?
If that were to happen, I'd just re-roll until I got NJW, hehehe. And no, I can perceive no benefit to voting oneself under any circumstances, unless a jester figure is involved.Voting Sofanthiel.
I see multiple scumtells and you aren't completely new to the game anymore.
You seem to primarily show interest in your own survival.
No effort so far to prod people or actively figure them out.
Using your vote to punish people for voting on you (ie trying to survive) - and / or a random vote.
I hope you understand why this looks suspicious?
Quarque, that's not at all what I meant by that post. Actually, what's up with "using your vote to punish people for voting on you"?? NJW wasn't even suspecting me! I've already provided reasoning for not wanting to die from a purely rational game-winning standpoint here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181688.msg8497621#msg8497621).
My explanation for voting NJW was a joke, but the vote itself wasn't. The real justification is that he accused Crystal for fooling around as a result of hesitating to make a somewhat radical decision so early into the game with no real intel (expecting a newbie to read people well with but a half-dozen random RVS comments is simply not gonna work), but I didn't state it because I also saw value in Crystal having to react to that allegation without interference, which didn't happen either way :P
Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.Snowkiller, if you do not want to play then why are you here? If your only motivation is to spoil our fun, that is very sad. I don't really want to waste a vote on you, but unfortunately I feel I have to, because you might in fact be a rebel.
I don't like how close to a hammer we are getting with Snowkiller
-I can see town thinking this way. You had a slower style in the last game I read, although that alignment wasn't town.
Ah, a fellow countryman. If you don't mind a follow up, since you've got the experience, is there anything we should know about Maximum Spin?Where to begin? Max is a very strong player. He keeps his cards close to his chest, memes a fair bit, and plays a similar day game as town and as mafia. This makes him very hard to read even for experienced players, and when he is eliminated, it's often based on gut feelings or luck.
Come to think of it, the 2 rebels could've easily jumped on the vote and hammered Snow into the ground. This means that either one/several of us are enemy scum, or Snow is (of course, there's always the possibility of mafia plainly missing the opportunity due to being inactive at the time).Would an early quickhammer not be very incriminating for mafia?
Well I certainly don't like how quickly you both happened to simultaneously back down from your positions and jump on pressuring Snowkiller. Sure, your reasons seem sound enough at a glance, but is a bit off putting to see it happen twice in the space of 5 minutes.I don't like how close to a hammer we are getting with Snowkiller
Come to think of it, the 2 rebels could've easily jumped on the vote and hammered Snow into the ground. This means that either one/several of us are enemy scum, or Snow is (of course, there's always the possibility of mafia plainly missing the opportunity due to being inactive at the time).
So I can't ever really be sure who they are then, but there are things to watch out for. Hopefully we got town Maximum Spin then.Quote from: MaxineAh, a fellow countryman. If you don't mind a follow up, since you've got the experience, is there anything we should know about Maximum Spin?Where to begin? Max is a very strong player. He keeps his cards close to his chest, memes a fair bit, and plays a similar day game as town and as mafia. This makes him very hard to read even for experienced players, and when he is eliminated, it's often based on gut feelings or luck.
As town, he's good at finding scum, although makes small mechanical slip-ups very occasionally, stuff like voting too early and letting mafia hammer for the win.
As scum, he creates confusion with his night actions. He often aims to create pointless mechanical mysteriesfor town to obscure and reduce useful discussion, and will lie about his night actions to achieve this. He's comfortable bussing or killing off his partner and employing risky strategies.
To me, Max is without a doubt the most worrying player in the game, as he's a highly competent player that I can't read.Come to think of it, the 2 rebels could've easily jumped on the vote and hammered Snow into the ground. This means that either one/several of us are enemy scum, or Snow is (of course, there's always the possibility of mafia plainly missing the opportunity due to being inactive at the time).Would an early quickhammer not be very incriminating for mafia?
Maxine: Why the immediate interest in third parties? Do you think there are any?
Can probably get initial reads and bit of advice for new players not sure how to start scumhunting later, posting on lunch break.
Regarding SnowKiller... if we end up eliminating someone for not really playing, I think not shooting would be a good plan, as the elimination would likely not tell us much about people's motivations. Hopefully won't come to that though, plenty of time for them to get into the action... same goes for Crystallized and CanadianKitten.
I honestly forgot all about that vote Unvote. Currently I think NJW is the most suspicious but it could just be their playstyle.Well, I expected there to be more content for you to come to an answer with by the time you answered. However I'm wondering if you could come up with a more useful answer than "I used rng" if I asked again now? Otherwise I might think you don't actually want to engage with me. If EP does die either today or tonight, and comes up town, are you going to use this as your defence? CrystalizedmireCrystalizedmire: If you had to pick now, who would you shoot tonight? Also pretty please don't draw me being an idiot after this is all over, even if I turn out to be one. I'll cry. :-\Okay so who would I shoot. Uhhh, *uses random number generator* Elephant Parade.
I can see town thinking this way. You had a slower style in the last game I read, although that alignment wasn't town.Eh? I'd describe my style this game as slower, not faster; I've been less aggressive and I've barely interacted with any of the other players. And how would a flip make things clear? If CM and I were mafia together, why in God's name would I intercede in RVS to defend them from a forced attack?
Not happy about the passivity and defending another player, but at least you admitted to uncertainty on the second one. Hm... if you or CM flips mafia at any point, I think things are pretty clear. But for now,
I don't think voting Snowkiller is an effective strategy for getting them to talk.I would agree with this given their first post in the game. However:
I honestly forgot all about that vote Unvote. Currently I think NJW is the most suspicious but it could just be their playstyle.This is vague and easy to back away from. Iffy! Between this and NJW's insistence that if one of us is scum, the other must be too, I am strongly considering a you/NJW scumteam. I still need to go over the rest of the players, but while I do that: how about explaining your reasoning, Crystallizedmire?
I forgot that voted you and I genuinely don't think you're scum. NJW seemed most suspicious because of their rather weird rtv question but I haven't played much with them. The second most suspicious is Softhaniel because despite knowing that Snowkiller does not engage much with the game still voted against them seemingly to divert suspicion off of them.I don't think voting Snowkiller is an effective strategy for getting them to talk.I would agree with this given their first post in the game. However:QuoteI honestly forgot all about that vote Unvote. Currently I think NJW is the most suspicious but it could just be their playstyle.This is vague and easy to back away from. Iffy! Between this and NJW's insistence that if one of us is scum, the other must be too, I am strongly considering a you/NJW scumteam. I still need to go over the rest of the players, but while I do that: how about explaining your reasoning, Crystallizedmire?
EP: I meant slower than many other players, that wasn’t very clear.I still don't really agree but OK.
I do think you might defend a less experienced scum partner in RVS if you thought you could get away with it, and I think CM is fairly new to this. It’s not enough to vote you on at present, but if one of you flips scum, I’ll have very strong suspicions about the other.
Pfp
I forgot that voted you and I genuinely don't think you're scum. NJW seemed most suspicious because of their rather weird rtv question but I haven't played much with them. The second most suspicious is Softhaniel because despite knowing that Snowkiller does not engage much with the game still voted against them seemingly to divert suspicion off of them.The unvote makes sense.
Voting Sofanthiel.Don't hide behind dice rolls or helplessness. You're going to have to play at some point, might as well start now.
*Rolls a D9*
Uh, NJW2000.
I see multiple scumtells and you aren't completely new to the game anymore.
You seem to primarily show interest in your own survival.
No effort so far to prod people or actively figure them out.
Using your vote to punish people for voting on you (ie trying to survive) - and / or a random vote.
I hope you understand why this looks suspicious?
(...)Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.Snowkiller, if you do not want to play then why are you here? If your only motivation is to spoil our fun, that is very sad. I don't really want to waste a vote on you, but unfortunately I feel I have to, because you might in fact be a rebel.
Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?Sure. Snowkiller is not just a lurker, he is someone who had no intention of playing and "joined" the game out of spite, with no other intention than to troll as much as possible. It pisses me off. He won't play the game now, and he won't play if we wait longer. The way I see it, we're going to have to take him out at some point anyway, and I would rather do it sooner than later. At least I hope we can ban them from any new games started here.
I agree, and would not find someone voting Snowkiller at lynch suspicious, but here's the thing: we aren't at lynch yet. We have more than 24 hours to go and we can and should use that time to poke at people who are actually playing the game. You're throwing that opportunity away by parking your vote on someone you think isn't playing.Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?Sure. Snowkiller is not just a lurker, he is someone who had no intention of playing and "joined" the game out of spite, with no other intention than to troll as much as possible. It pisses me off. He won't play the game now, and he won't play if we wait longer. The way I see it, we're going to have to take him out at some point anyway, and I would rather do it sooner than later. At least I hope we can ban them from any new games started here.
Where to begin? Max is a very strong player. He keeps his cards close to his chest, memes a fair bit, and plays a similar day game as town and as mafia. This makes him very hard to read even for experienced players, and when he is eliminated, it's often based on gut feelings or luck.Heh.
As town, he's good at finding scum, although makes small mechanical slip-ups very occasionally, stuff like voting too early and letting mafia hammer for the win.
As scum, he creates confusion with his night actions. He often aims to create pointless mechanical mysteriesfor town to obscure and reduce useful discussion, and will lie about his night actions to achieve this. He's comfortable bussing or killing off his partner and employing risky strategies.
To me, Max is without a doubt the most worrying player in the game, as he's a highly competent player that I can't read.
Good to know, but I put a limited amount of stock in meta.I put even less stock in supposed "scumtells" that don't take meta into account, because everyone responds to situations differently.
That's valid (and part of the reason I disliked Quarque's sofanthiel post is that it felt incredibly generic) but as a new player, my knowledge of other people's metas is limited. I could shore it up by reading even more games but ain't nobody got time for that. However, I currently read CM and sofanthiel as vaguely town-leaning solely because they played the same way as town last game, so I guess what I should say is "I put a limited amount of stock in what people say each other's metas are."Good to know, but I put a limited amount of stock in meta.I put even less stock in supposed "scumtells" that don't take meta into account, because everyone responds to situations differently.
CanadianKitten: no readslist yet is ok, but it's time to start thinking about other player's motivations. At this point, which players do you think want somebody dead? Which don't?
*him. I thought the anger symbol was a bow lolFor me, that's a fascinating insight into how people make these sort of assumptions.
Even if it were, there could still be a male behind the profile.*him. I thought the anger symbol was a bow lolFor me, that's a fascinating insight into how people make these sort of assumptions.
Even if it were, there could still be a male behind the profile.Exactly. The avatar doesn't mean anything.
NJW didn't vote for you, he just pressured.
Max: apart from Sofa, is anyone looking fun enough for you to let them live?
I don't like how CM and sofanthiel jumped on your bandwagon, though they did the same thing last game as town and they've been pretty active.
I don't see any reason to think Snowkiller was intentionally disregarding the game and didn't just fail to notice
Exactly. The avatar doesn't mean anything.
Extreme Rotation, what does YOUR avatar mean, hm?It is an accurate self-portrait.
ElephantParade - still don't like their defending/answering questions for another player. Seeing a bit more interest in finding scum now... this may genuinely be a playstyle difference between us, but I'm not fully satisfied.I didn't cut you off to defend Crystallizedmire, I did it to attack you—that is, to scumhunt. Is calling someone out on a strange attack not a valid line of questioning?
Wait, Maxine was actually the first person to vote Snowkiller, not Sofanthiel. I hadn't realized that Maxine had voted him at all. I'm bumping Quarque up a sus level for being the third person to join the SK wagon.I had to double check this one, the vote counter states that Maxine did in fact vote Sofanthiel and also this post had Maxine voting sofanthiel:
sofanthiel: What did you do wrong last game? How is it going to affect your play this game?
No, I meant that Maxine, not sofanthiel, was the one who started the Snowkiller wagon (see this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181688.msg8497783#msg8497783)).Wait, Maxine was actually the first person to vote Snowkiller, not Sofanthiel. I hadn't realized that Maxine had voted him at all. I'm bumping Quarque up a sus level for being the third person to join the SK wagon.I had to double check this one, the vote counter states that Maxine did in fact vote Sofanthiel and also this post had Maxine voting sofanthiel:sofanthiel: What did you do wrong last game? How is it going to affect your play this game?
Thanks, I thought it was before the vote count.No, I meant that Maxine, not sofanthiel, was the one who started the Snowkiller wagon (see this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181688.msg8497783#msg8497783)).Wait, Maxine was actually the first person to vote Snowkiller, not Sofanthiel. I hadn't realized that Maxine had voted him at all. I'm bumping Quarque up a sus level for being the third person to join the SK wagon.I had to double check this one, the vote counter states that Maxine did in fact vote Sofanthiel and also this post had Maxine voting sofanthiel:sofanthiel: What did you do wrong last game? How is it going to affect your play this game?
Elephant Parade: why insist so hard on your NJW read? His play seems to me like the most convincingly Town of the bunch. You've spent a lot of focus on his "weird attack", which was clearly just an attempt to get a player to talk. Why are you reading so much into that? Am I missing something?Because it's one of my strongest ones. The original attack was only one data point, and I've spent so much time talking about it because he's spent so much time arguing with me about it (not to say that his arguing the point was scummy, only that I haven't been going out of my way to keep reiterating it). In the conversation that followed, he kept missing my point in a way that felt scummy to me; I acknowledge that it may have been mere miscommunication, which is why he's "only" a 50/50 in my mind.
Canadian Kitten: I know you're brand new to the game, but you seem very hesitant to question anyone or suspect them. Why?
I'd say that Maxine is definitely one of my more suspicious reads, so I can't see the problem there. Although I'm not exactly convinced of NJW2000's innocence either.What makes you think that you would die this night?
On the other hand, I have arrived at a state of acceptance that there's no way I survive the night, so I'm just trying to figure out who to shoot.
I don't see any reason to think Snowkiller was intentionally disregarding the game and didn't just fail to notice, but I'm pretty sure that, if you WANT him to hold a grudge and refuse to cooperate, accusing him of doing it on purpose out of spite sure sounds like a good way to do it.Fair enough actually. Didn't even consider that thought.
Personally, I 100% read Snowkiller's post as trolling and was simply waiting to say anything until closer to the end of the day in the hope I was wrong. I wish TKc had done the same, but I can't fault her for coming to the same conclusion.Starting to see that it is a troll post. I probably shouldn't have trusted my gut then.
*him. I thought the anger symbol was a bow lolYou are slowly making me realize all the ways someone can interpret my profile
NULL - NEED TO SEE MORE FROM THESE PEOPLE
...
CanadianKitten - Some big posts, and lots of RVS questions. Gave me a very detailed and thought-out answer... but just has minor a gut read on Maxine. They're not voting anyone, they're not asking any difficult questions, they're not even speculating much about the setup. They seem smart, so why aren't they helping?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Snowkiller, CanadianKitten and anyone else who isn't sure where to start with this game, I made a few notes below. It's not much, but it might be worth a look.
*spoiler snip*
I'm not doing the above out of kindness. More than half of us may die tonight, so I need every player to start trying to find mafia. Or in the case of actual mafia, I need them to pretend to. Even weak but genuine scumhunting could help me identify the town players, but if people stay on the sidelines, I can't figure out their alignment.
PfpHonestly, Maximumspin seems less active the last time he was actually scum.
Quarque: the gut read on Max is partly because he doesn’t seem that uncertain as town, and partly because he seems to be interacting a bit less with players than usual… he doesn’t question people hard D1, but he usually has something to talk about. Very chatty in an off-topic manner though. That led to an ok vote on scum!max last game.
Hm. 12 hours left. Don’t trust the Maxine votes, two gut reads from players not really playing is not a promising start, especially when a couple of other players indicated they might hop on that. Don’t want a snow killer Elim as it likely won’t tell us much about the people voting them… if they don’t play at all, killing them at night would be the proper thing.
MaximumSpin. Who’s with me?
What I meant by "asks some questions wall of text" is that Maxine asks some questions on their first post then answers all the questions about them.PfpHonestly, Maximumspin seems less active the last time he was actually scum.
Quarque: the gut read on Max is partly because he doesn’t seem that uncertain as town, and partly because he seems to be interacting a bit less with players than usual… he doesn’t question people hard D1, but he usually has something to talk about. Very chatty in an off-topic manner though. That led to an ok vote on scum!max last game.
Hm. 12 hours left. Don’t trust the Maxine votes, two gut reads from players not really playing is not a promising start, especially when a couple of other players indicated they might hop on that. Don’t want a snow killer Elim as it likely won’t tell us much about the people voting them… if they don’t play at all, killing them at night would be the proper thing.
MaximumSpin. Who’s with me?
Re: Maxine, Maxine seems to have a similar playstyle to Caz in supernatural mafia 11.
Asks some questions then pull up a wall of text. And both don't post all that much. Plus Caz was mafia in that game so I think Maxine could possibly mafia
PfpSo I actually agree with you on MaximumSpin; I find his lack of serious conversation really strange. I was waiting to see if his Maxine vote developed into anything, but Maxine hasn't replied yet, so c'est la vie.
Quarque: the gut read on Max is partly because he doesn’t seem that uncertain as town, and partly because he seems to be interacting a bit less with players than usual… he doesn’t question people hard D1, but he usually has something to talk about. Very chatty in an off-topic manner though. That led to an ok vote on scum!max last game.
Hm. 12 hours left. Don’t trust the Maxine votes, two gut reads from players not really playing is not a promising start, especially when a couple of other players indicated they might hop on that. Don’t want a snow killer Elim as it likely won’t tell us much about the people voting them… if they don’t play at all, killing them at night would be the proper thing.
MaximumSpin. Who’s with me?
I agree, and would not find someone voting Snowkiller at lynch suspicious, but here's the thing: we aren't at lynch yet. We have more than 24 hours to go and we can and should use that time to poke at people who are actually playing the game. You're throwing that opportunity away by parking your vote on someone you think isn't playing.Well, we are getting close to the deadline and you haven't done all that much poking in the last 24 hours. In day one you have first spent a lot of time hounding NJW for sketchy reasons and then after declaring your vote on me you've not contributed much either. I have you down as slightly sus.
Quarque: the gut read on Max is partly because he doesn’t seem that uncertain as town, and partly because he seems to be interacting a bit less with players than usual… he doesn’t question people hard D1, but he usually has something to talk about. Very chatty in an off-topic manner though. That led to an ok vote on scum!max last game.This is a really good point. Didn't answer my question why they voted Maxine, either. There are currently three votes on Maxine, so I can add a second vote on Maximum Spin without creating a tie.
Don’t want a snow killer Elim as it likely won’t tell us much about the people voting them… if they don’t play at all, killing them at night would be the proper thing.For killing at night to work we need to agree on who is going to shoot them (2 players at least). Not much time for that, but I'll happily volunteer.
I would also like to volunteerDon’t want a snow killer Elim as it likely won’t tell us much about the people voting them… if they don’t play at all, killing them at night would be the proper thing.For killing at night to work we need to agree on who is going to shoot them (2 players at least). Not much time for that, but I'll happily volunteer.
Well, we are getting close to the deadline and you haven't done all that much poking in the last 24 hours. In day one you have first spent a lot of time hounding NJW for sketchy reasons and then after declaring your vote on me you've not contributed much either. I have you down as slightly sus.Post(ing) from phone.
What does Pfp mean?
What makes you think that you would die this night?Half the players seem to think I'm mafia, and the mafia themselves probably consider me a primary target for removal. ESPECIALLY if it really is NJW2000.
This is better, though may be due to prompting.As a general rule, I don't care about prompting in the least, but sometimes I just wake up in a different mood and decide to say something different.
Hm… I know what you mean about CanadianKitten. Far too nice, and apologising for scumtells.Just curious, what is far too nice about my post excluding the latter section?
I’d shift my vote…?
Who's left? Sniller, Cryre, "Sorry, eh?" cat, and... right, couch of God. Nobody I can really say much about, although Cat in the Hat and, uh... Slouch on the Couch seem fine. I'm comfortable eliminating Heat Miser if he doesn't vote. Actually, no, looking back, the Cat in America's Hat is really rubbing me the wrong way and may be the right place to move my vote if I decide to do that. At the moment, I am not interested in doing so.
All right, we need to worry about the night. Broadly, we want to avoid two possibilities: Everyone goes off half-cocked and shoots up the place, ending the game in a loss immediately, OR everyone shoots the same couple of people, wasting all the shots. However, at the same time, the mafia will want to shoot people who don't shoot, eliminating those shots. I'm certainly going to shoot since I don't expect to survive the night anyway. I think Cryre and Quark should follow through on their stated commitment, presuming we don't lynch either of them or Sniller. Everyone else, I'm going to recommend you flip a coin to decide whether or not to shoot. This will most likely keep things from getting too fiery without giving any information away. Or at least that sounds really plausible to me right now. If I get lynched, though, I'm going to arbitrarily say that Elephant Parade should shoot. I also think it might be useful for the rest of the noobs to declare their preferred shooting targets now. I don't think it gives the mafia too much extra help, especially if you do what I said about flipping a coin, while it should make the next day easier to untangle.
Just curious, what is far too nice about my post excluding the latter section?I think what he means by that is that you sound like you are trying very hard to be beige and neutral and not make any enemies, which is traditionally considered a scumtell.
Should I try to tone it down? Try to be ruder?
For killing at night to work we need to agree on who is going to shoot them (2 players at least).
I will also point out that Car-key has been voting with Maxine-umI'm really sorry to say, but I think you need more practice before you try this. :P
you sound like you are trying very hard to be beige and neutral and not make any enemies, which is traditionally considered a scumtell.
I'm really sorry to say, but I think you need more practice before you try this. :P
I'm pretty sure Quarque is pronounced Qwar-kuhI'm really sorry to say, but I think you need more practice before you try this. :P
I might've gone overboard to the point of confusion with Maxine, but come on! Wasn't using 2 homophones for the different pronunciations of "Quarque" perhaps somewhat clever?
Just curious, what is far too nice about my post excluding the latter section?I think what he means by that is that you sound like you are trying very hard to be beige and neutral and not make any enemies, which is traditionally considered a scumtell.
Should I try to tone it down? Try to be ruder?
I find TCk the most suspicious of the newbies (largely because of his newbposting-into-absence combo; I'm feeling better about him now that he's engaging more, but still worse than Maxine, let alone CM or sofanthiel).Sorry for that, I would say irl issues but not really an excuse I can use due me posting on other threads. Don't know how to express it other than unable to decide whether to post or not on something that requires brainpower.
I don't really see what other people are seeing in Maxine. I found them vaguely iffy but I have much stronger scumreads so I'd be fairly surprised if they were scum. I admittedly haven't thought much about them because I find the Million Quotes Technique annoying to parse.
I would reiterate the case against Quarque here but I don't have time so I'm going to be lazy and ask everyone to go back over their posts for themselves. I still think they're the best lynch today, though part of that is my belief that they're a plausible teammate for my other two top scumpicks, NJW and Max.
The homophones just confused me. Maybe go the way MaxSpin does and use stuff likeI'm really sorry to say, but I think you need more practice before you try this. :P
I might've gone overboard to the point of confusion with Maxine, but come on! Wasn't using 2 homophones for the different pronunciations of "Quarque" perhaps somewhat clever?
"Sorry, eh?" cat, couch of God, Cat in the Hat, Heat Miser, Cat in America's Hatas some examples
you sound like you are trying very hard to be beige and neutral and not make any enemies, which is traditionally considered a scumtell.
Or a newbietell, like I've demonstrated last game!
The homophones just confused me. Maybe go the way MaxSpin does and use stuff likeWell, I'm glad somebody appreciates it."Sorry, eh?" cat, couch of God, Cat in the Hat, Heat Miser, Cat in America's Hatas some examples
They wouldn't kamikaze themselves like that... would they?There are certainly people who might, so why take the chance? It looks like the lynch is pretty set anyway.
I threw a grenade at Snowkiller and Maxine. Not my best decision in hindsight because NJW looks most suspicious now.NJW should've bolded and coloured that
Alright then. In that case I think it's most likely NJW.
@CM: Were you shot?Yes.
Actually, a second question, CM: Near as I can tell, you hopped on every single wagon except Quarque's. In fact, I don't believe you interacted with Quarque at all. Why was that?I don't think I was on Snowkiller's bandwagon but I did volunteer to kill them. The reason I didn't interact with Quarque is because they never struck me as suspicious. Sure, they made a suspicious attack on Sofanthiel but I thought that was a genuine mistake.
The new players seem to believe you, but… care to explain why?1. I just get bad vibes from you, man
So you didn't say anything even as someone you thought was innocent was lynched?@CM: Were you shot?Yes.Actually, a second question, CM: Near as I can tell, you hopped on every single wagon except Quarque's. In fact, I don't believe you interacted with Quarque at all. Why was that?I don't think I was on Snowkiller's bandwagon but I did volunteer to kill them. The reason I didn't interact with Quarque is because they never struck me as suspicious. Sure, they made a suspicious attack on Sofanthiel but I thought that was a genuine mistake.
While I didn't read Quarque as scum, I also wouldn't be surprised if they were. At the time Maxine looked more suspicious due to their lack of engagement so I voted them instead of Quarque.So you didn't say anything even as someone you thought was innocent was lynched?@CM: Were you shot?Yes.Actually, a second question, CM: Near as I can tell, you hopped on every single wagon except Quarque's. In fact, I don't believe you interacted with Quarque at all. Why was that?I don't think I was on Snowkiller's bandwagon but I did volunteer to kill them. The reason I didn't interact with Quarque is because they never struck me as suspicious. Sure, they made a suspicious attack on Sofanthiel but I thought that was a genuine mistake.
While I didn't read Quarque as scum, I also wouldn't be surprised if they were. At the time Maxine looked more suspicious due to their lack of engagement so I voted them instead of Quarque.OK. That seems plausible given your play last game. Unvote.
Oh, one final question, CM: Can you use your grenade every night or just the once?Once.
I just don't see how you could've arrived at that interpretation of Max's vote. It doesn't really make sense to me. Setting aside tie prevention, Max's stated motive, being a good move for a Max of any alignment, how would being the fifth (!) vote on a sold wagon give a scum!Max towncred? It doesn't feel like a plausible mistake for you to make, which is why I think it's scummy.*fourth
sofanthiel, Maxine, The Canadian kitten: Please claim your night actions.My bad, TCk already did. That accounts for NJW getting shot.
Setting aside tie prevention, Max's stated motive, being a good move for a Max of any alignmentI'm pretty sure Maxine was trying to force a tie. Before the Snowkiller bandwagon the vote count looked like this:
Current Votecount:Then Maxine voted Snowkiller and Sofanthiel and Quarque followed the vote. Maxine then voted me. So the vote count would look like this:
NJW2000: Maximum Spin, sofanthiel (2)
sofanthiel: Maxine, Quarque (2)
Elephant Parade: Crystalizedmire, NJW2000 (2)
Quarque: (0)
Maxine: (0)
Snowkiller: (0)
The Canadian kitten: (0)
Crystalizedmire: (0)
Maximum Spin: (0)
CADETS! I don't know if you're stupid or lazy, but you seem reluctant to find the Rebels! You MUST pick one cadet for Summary Execution. If you are unable to decide, then your whole squad will be eliminated.Scum don't win in a tie. Everyone loses in a tie, unless there's a third party who has it has a secret wincon, which would be fairly bastard-y given the "ALL players lose" above. And you can't "force" a tie by voting someone 24 hours before the day ends!
In the event of a tie, ALL Players Lose.
For the Emperor!
CanadianKitten: why did you shoot me?
tfw 3/7 players are lurkingIt has felt harder to jump back in than I thought it would be.
I was convinced that Maxspin felt very towny. Seeing that you found Maxpsin more suspicious. I figured that you would shoot Maxspin so I decided to shoot you instead.Huh... well, you were right about me shooting Max.
Crystal, this is a stupid question, but you don't happen to also have the rifle in addition to the grenade right?I do in fact have one rifle alongside the grenade!
I can see Snowkiller, because they presumably would say nothing.If Snowkiller is scum then that would mean:
Whoever tried to ho me last night, come on bruh. My vest was broken so I know someone tried to ho me.It's me!
sofanthiel, Maxine, The Canadian kitten: Please claim your night actions.
Quarque votes Snowkiller, Maxine immediately unvotes them. It would be weird for scum to do that.
That leaves Snowkiller, CM for staying on the Maxine wagon, and Maxine themselves.
I'm undecided if Mafia will get an armoured-piercing every night kill, or just a regular every night kill.
Welp, this sucks.Unless the mod specifically says so, absolutely not.
By the way, are we allowed to PM each other? I know this aspect is usually game-specific, but there is no mention of it in the rules.
please nobody else put a vote there until we’re ready
Good to know. Don't know you were shot, but reasonably satisfied that Max did so. Unvote.Crystal, this is a stupid question, but you don't happen to also have the rifle in addition to the grenade right?I do in fact have one rifle alongside the grenade!
Re: Why I thought that Maxine is scum: Maxine seems like the only person who voted with Quarque, plus the lack of engagement wasn't helping Maxine's case.I mean I can't argue against the lack of engagement. And, sure I guess we shared our votes briefly, very briefly the second time, but I feel it is a stretch to make much of it.
I'm pretty sure it is scenario 3.Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?Sure. Snowkiller is not just a lurker, he is someone who had no intention of playing and "joined" the game out of spite, with no other intention than to troll as much as possible. It pisses me off. He won't play the game now, and he won't play if we wait longer. The way I see it, we're going to have to take him out at some point anyway, and I would rather do it sooner than later. At least I hope we can ban them from any new games started here.
PFPIf this is the case and Snowkiller was voted out, it would be the second time Snowkiller was voted out as townie even though we know a scum voted them.
I definitely can see scenario 3 happening.
Btw what does the dotted underline text say?
There is evidence that Snowkiller isn't a rebel. For one thing, Quarque contributed to the Snowkiller bandwagon.I find scenario 3 less likely because it doesn't fully explain why Quarque was so eager to hop on their wagon. Overanalyzing votes led me wrong last game, though.
This would mean:
1. Quarque was trying to look less suspicious by voting out a scum
2. Snowkiller is very annoying to be partners with
3. Snowkiller is innocent, Quarque just wanted to vote out a lurker.
Quarque might have tried to vote out Snowkiller for multiple of the above reasons.
Given that Quarque said this:I'm pretty sure it is scenario 3.Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?Sure. Snowkiller is not just a lurker, he is someone who had no intention of playing and "joined" the game out of spite, with no other intention than to troll as much as possible. It pisses me off. He won't play the game now, and he won't play if we wait longer. The way I see it, we're going to have to take him out at some point anyway, and I would rather do it sooner than later. At least I hope we can ban them from any new games started here.
Given that Quarque said this:I'm pretty sure it is scenario 3.Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?Sure. Snowkiller is not just a lurker, he is someone who had no intention of playing and "joined" the game out of spite, with no other intention than to troll as much as possible. It pisses me off. He won't play the game now, and he won't play if we wait longer. The way I see it, we're going to have to take him out at some point anyway, and I would rather do it sooner than later. At least I hope we can ban them from any new games started here.
Ideally unvote me too, I guess, unless you’re planning to elim me. That would be better than everyone dying to a draw. TheOkay fine, Snowkiller
(...Is it not the policy here to cease posting after a hammer?)I think it generally is but I don't believe the OP specifies.
(...Is it not the policy here to cease posting after a hammer?)It is, but absent Mod is absent. Locking and ending day...now.
Claim your shots, everyone.
Nvm, this game has the "scum must equal or outnumber town" rule per the OP, so we can't be dealing with an extra scumStill pfp
I would guess not:Nvm, this game has the "scum must equal or outnumber town" rule per the OP, so we can't be dealing with an extra scumStill pfp
Does it apply if there is a third party?
Like 1 third party, 1 scum, and two town left?
Also why did you not first claim shots and getting shot, but ask others to claim first instead?
72 hour days, 24 hour nights, Town must kill all Mafia, Mafia must equal or outnumber Town, Third Party (if exist) must fulfill whatever winconSo we could be looking at either Town/Town/Town/Scum or Town/Town/3P/Scum. I would expect the latter given how heavily the OP hints at it, but who knows.
Impossible. Maxine flipped Standard Stormtrooper and claimed to have shot MS N1.Claim your shots, everyone.Could Maxine possibly targeted CM because they were hit by CM in the earlier night?
Impossible. Maxine flipped Standard Stormtrooper and claimed to have shot MS N1.Claim your shots, everyone.Could Maxine possibly targeted CM because they were hit by CM in the earlier night?
Could you claim your role real quick? This is very important.Impossible. Maxine flipped Standard Stormtrooper and claimed to have shot MS N1.Claim your shots, everyone.Could Maxine possibly targeted CM because they were hit by CM in the earlier night?
I don't quite understand this?
What does flipping standard and shooting MS have to do with revenge shooting?
Could you claim your role real quick? This is very important.Impossible. Maxine flipped Standard Stormtrooper and claimed to have shot MS N1.Claim your shots, everyone.Could Maxine possibly targeted CM because they were hit by CM in the earlier night?
I don't quite understand this?
What does flipping standard and shooting MS have to do with revenge shooting?
Specifically, the abilities that come with it.
Welp, this sucks.
Ok, here’s an extremely tenuous idea: from their “pop a vest and chill” comment, I suspect Snowkiller didn’t actually read the role pm carefully enough to know their vest was automatic. Especially as they’d probably always shoot at night otherwise, and talk about doing it, from what I’ve seen of their general demeanour.
He also could be an actual scum medic, something Webadict proposed last game.
I believe everyone deserves at least a chance to attempt to explain themselves. :)
I have terrible reading comprehension
UghhhhhhhhhhhhWhat? Why would you immediately assume there was more than one scum left? This is a bit odd, EP.
Really hope this is scum + 3P and not scum + scum
Claim your shots, everyone.
Pfp
Unvote
Snowkiller
Not going to shoot anyone this night
literally stormtrooper cadet
well it says I have an auto vest that protects me from a death, and a rifle that can kill "1 player on 1 night"
hold on, did I misunderstand this bit?
I think I might have
(https://i.imgur.com/WEa0bH2.png)
NJW should've bolded and coloured that
Ironically, I was thinking the same thing after I went to bed, except re: you. So I can't fault your logic here.(https://i.imgur.com/WEa0bH2.png)
Here's what we know for sure: Maxine already used up their bullet, so it's definitely one of us that killed Crystal. Another interesting thing to note is that CM has been attacked by the same anonymous party twice in a row because no one admitted to doing so day 1 either (there is a small chance Snow was bluffing about his nightly inaction and actually did utilize his rifle, though that's unlikely). Hold on a second; both NJW (first to claim Max) and TCk said they shot on the first day, while EP has been saving his for the entirety of the game. If NJW is a lone antagonist that doesn't have grenades, that would mean he's not the killer tonight!! You're absolutely right; it could be EP! As much as it seems counterintuitive to bus your friend's chest in at the very beginning of the game, it's a possibility. I'm still not completely convinced; there are a few too many yet-to-be-determined factors at play. It is also fair to mention that, out of everyone alive right now, Crystal only voted NJW, as provided below:NJW should've bolded and coloured that
Max didn’t trust EP. I’m not sure if Max even saw scum!Quarque.
If I interpret Elephant Parade in the last game as someone who was assuming he was on the side of town (until everyone became convinced Snowkiller was mafia), then NJW2000 and Elephant Parade are both within their expected town meta as people who tend to get really stuck on something not really all that important, so I currently think this is just a town fight. If it's not, I very very weakly find NJW2000 more suspicious of the two.
You did, in fact, shoot him.What makes you think that you would die this night?Half the players seem to think I'm mafia, and the mafia themselves probably consider me a primary target for removal. ESPECIALLY if it really is NJW2000.
Quarque, you are one sussy baka.Voting Sofanthiel.Don't hide behind dice rolls or helplessness. You're going to have to play at some point, might as well start now.
*Rolls a D9*
Uh, NJW2000.
I see multiple scumtells and you aren't completely new to the game anymore.
You seem to primarily show interest in your own survival.
No effort so far to prod people or actively figure them out.
Using your vote to punish people for voting on you (ie trying to survive) - and / or a random vote.
I hope you understand why this looks suspicious?(...)Your attack on sofanthiel gives me bad vibes and, as I said above, I find it baffling that you'd put a second pressure vote on a lurker. Care to explain the latter?Oh. This shit started already? Popping a vest and chill, I guess. Maybe it's some DOTA2 type shit. I don't know.Snowkiller, if you do not want to play then why are you here? If your only motivation is to spoil our fun, that is very sad. I don't really want to waste a vote on you, but unfortunately I feel I have to, because you might in fact be a rebel.
Pfp
Quarque: the gut read on Max is partly because he doesn’t seem that uncertain as town, and partly because he seems to be interacting a bit less with players than usual… he doesn’t question people hard D1, but he usually has something to talk about. Very chatty in an off-topic manner though. That led to an ok vote on scum!max last game.
Hm. 12 hours left. Don’t trust the Maxine votes, two gut reads from players not really playing is not a promising start, especially when a couple of other players indicated they might hop on that. Don’t want a snow killer Elim as it likely won’t tell us much about the people voting them… if they don’t play at all, killing them at night would be the proper thing.
MaximumSpin. Who’s with me?
After sleeping on it I'm still leaning toward NJW. TCK's error is tragic but plausible. I like sofanthiel less now that he doesn't have an uncontested medic claim, but I suppose scum would likely hold on to the claim for towncred.I now see that sofanthiel used their shot on Maxine anyway. Missed that on my first read.
I am tempted to lynch TCK, whose vest is intact, today, and shoot NJW tonight with sofanthiel, but for all we know NJW has a bussing power or a triple vest or something.
PFP
I didn't shoot but did get shot
I didn't shoot NJW because:
1. I thought CM or sofanthiel would and didn't want to waste my one shot
2. I wanted to save my one bullet
3. If I was wrong, too many townies dying in one night could instantly lose the game for town, especially if we were dealing with three scum
If Snowkiller flips town, you'll be back on the chopping block.2. Is not a townie reason, if scum get limited kills.
@EP: I didn't include Quarque as a candidate, as at that point, Snowkiller and Maxine looked more likely because it was just you on Quarque. And yep, I wanted to elim Max, who did not trust either of us. So that massive wall of quotes was pretty pointless.Oh, I misread your post—I thought "two gut reads from players not really playing is not a promising start" was a separate item from "Don’t trust the Maxine votes". That's on me. I also did not actually bother to check the preceding vote count, which would have cleared things up.
You trust EP, ok. And the bit about Canadian Kitten?
Wait… CK, did you think you had multiple shots?
@EP: I didn't include Quarque as a candidate, as at that point, Snowkiller and Maxine looked more likely because it was just you on Quarque. And yep, I wanted to elim Max, who did not trust either of us. So that massive wall of quotes was pretty pointless.
I still don't buy your logic on not shooting me.PFP
I didn't shoot but did get shot
I didn't shoot NJW because:
1. I thought CM or sofanthiel would and didn't want to waste my one shot
2. I wanted to save my one bullet
3. If I was wrong, too many townies dying in one night could instantly lose the game for town, especially if we were dealing with three scum
1. You should have shot me on this logic, because you were more committed to it than either of Sofa and CanadianIf Snowkiller flips town, you'll be back on the chopping block.2. Is not a townie reason, if scum get limited kills.
3. If you mis-elim'd the next day, you'd quite possibly lose the game for town anyhow. This reasoning doesn't check out.
Someone is lying about kills. I might have more to say on this once I've thought things through, but for now, there are shots unaccounted for.
Unless EP is lying about being shot, someone shot them when they really should have shot me. I've been kept alive today because I'm the most plausible elim, as I wasn't on the Quarque wagon, and killed town N1. There's no other reason.
I don't entirely trust EP for keeping shots in reserve and failing to shoot me... but CK doesn't look great here. If they misunderstood their role, I'm not sure why they didn't shoot last night.
I don't think EP claims to have been shot as scum, but I'm not sure why not.
CanadianKitten: if you thought your gun was multi-shot, why didn't you shoot somebody last night?
The Canadian kitten, what are your reads right now? Can you please rank everyone's trustworthiness and... town-liness?
Regarding bussing: does it really strike you as plausible that scum!me would hardbus my partner D1 in a setup where the night game is so important?I can see the logic here (stray bullets are presumably very scary for scum, and doubly so if one of them is dead), but ultimately, winning this game as scum comes down to not being suspected by town, just like in a normal mafia.
It is also fair to mention that, out of everyone alive right now, Crystal only voted NJW, as provided below:NJW should've bolded and coloured that
NJW
I didn't shoot but did get shot
Regarding bussing: does it really strike you as plausible that scum!me would hardbus my partner D1 in a setup where the night game is so important?
Why the hell would I want CM out of the game as scum?
If it helps, I would have decided try to shoot you this night had we not been reduced from 6 to 4.What does this even mean?
If it helps, I would have decided try to shoot you this night had we not been reduced from 6 to 4.What does this even mean?
Do you have extra shots or not?
TCK seems to think you shoot people out of revenge, doesn't have a strong grasp on what a town player would think, and mostly seems interested in defending themselves. They brought me to L-1 the very instant I voted them (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181688.msg8499625#msg8499625), instantly dropping any idea that someone else could be mafia. This... just doesn't seem to be town play.
I don't have a strong grasp on what to do because this is my first game, are there expectations that I have to do better than veteran players who played this genre of games many times, or even the other newbies who may have only played once, but got coaching and had a game to figure out how they should play?That's true enough - I was more talking about your motivations. If you're genuinely town, I'm going to be more annoyed at how I played than you did.
I won't know what town play is to me until I have maybe more than 1 game under my belt
The Canadian kitten: If I was less trustworthy than NJW yesterday, why did you shift your vote onto NJW?
Why would I have shot CM?
So you assumed scum only got one shot?
If you're so confused, then why haven't you asked me a single question back, up to and including the most obvious one?
I didn't shoot but did get shot
This would've been a little more helpful if you shared the above information earlier, specifically prior to my vote/kill counting; you could be trying to falsify my reasoning and its conclusion by way of deception.
I claimed having lost a vest, which means I should die in one shot, which means scum should have shot me last night to win the game, which means I should be dead right now. The first question, at least, seems like it should be incredibly obvious to someone who doesn't already know the answer (because they shot me).
Win Conditions Reminder: Town must kill all Mafia, Mafia must equal or outnumber Town, Third Party (if exist) must fulfill whatever wincon
HAMMER of Two (2) votes.Wait, we've got a hammer on the last day?!!
Why did the mod clarify that sofa was using discord to send actions this late into the game?
I'm not explaining the last one until sofanthiel posts. I don't think he'll change my mind, but you never know.
That was an awfully quick turnaround from "Bang! Bang!" to "I have nothing to ask you about besides now-irrelevant forums minutiae."
Sofa: Why are you so quick to vote especially during today and last day?
If Snowkiller flips town, you'll be back on the chopping block.Regarding today, I thought I had it all figured out in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181688.msg8499885#msg8499885) post. What I failed to realize is that we, for whatever reason, have hammers on the very last day. Good thing I immediately unvoted after seeing that I almost botched the game!
Alright. The word "generic" is not used as a descriptor of my profession; however, neither of the example strings provided are present either.So if you died right now, the role name that would appear after your name would be neither Stormtrooper Cadet nor {Adjective} Stormtrooper Cadet?
So if you died right now, the role name that would appear after your name would be neither Stormtrooper Cadet nor {Adjective} Stormtrooper Cadet?
Question #1: Why are you talking like a robot now?So if you died right now, the role name that would appear after your name would be neither Stormtrooper Cadet nor {Adjective} Stormtrooper Cadet?
It would be the former, just like with Snowkiller.
I've got some terrible friends, my news. I'm afraid that, as it turns out, in 5-10 hours, my connection to the worldwide web of lies will be severed for approximately 30 hours. If there are still memories of what math is in my slowly deteriorating brain, that means I might almost miss the deadline, which would result in an automatic loss due to EP actually being defenseless now. After a lot of deliberation and consideration, I've settled upon believing it's most likely TCk and will have to vote accordingly at the end of the above timeframe. Feel free to start rapid-firing me with questions in the small chronological window that remains!
Why don't you ever seem to suspect me?
You always seemed to jumped immediately at NJW or EP, but never me, why?
CK described the exact thought process I went through before I even mentioned the fact that I did. I doubt any scum, especially a newer player, would, or even could, do something that skilled based on the premise of the strategy itself and, most importantly, the specific wording quoted in my previous reply.
Question #1: Why are you talking like a robot now?
Question #2: How mad were you yesterday when you shot me and I didn't die?
Question #3: This is less a question than a concurrence, but seriously, how did you conclude that TCk was scum without even questioning them today? Are you seriously 100% confident in that?
More questions: Why are you voting me at the end of the timeframe?
Are you like some kind of third party jester?
I am so confused by your actions the way you jump from people to people with arguments and then suddenly saying that I will be voted for no discernable reason?
yep, maybe the jester one can be taken as jokingly, but it's more for me questioning whether they wanted to be lynched somethingThen I have no choice but to vote you. Sofanthiel has dropped more red flags than a department store the week before Canada Day, but your last round of questions was complete nonsense. The Canadian Kitten.
Was extremely stressful playing as scum and trying to pretend that I was an absolutely clueless town.Not at all! And definitely not something you should apologise for as mafia.
Hope I didn't drive you too nuts NJW?
Wait, we took an L? Aw man, come on bruh. LOCK IN!You won
No man. I died.Wait, we took an L? Aw man, come on bruh. LOCK IN!You won