Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2023, 01:16:09 pm
As you are one of the more prominent citizens of the town, you stop what you are working on and head over to the manor.
The mayor's seneschal greets you at the door and ushers you in to the great hall. Guards mill about, and there is a body on the floor covered in a dark piece of cloth. The mayor and his wife stand nearby, consoling one another in grief. Noticing you and the others who have come in, the mayor hugs his wife a final time and comes over to you.
"It has finally happened. The great seal of the forbidden shrine has been broken. Evil is loose in our lands. And.." he falters for a moment before composing himself "and my son is the first victim. You are charged with finding out who did this evil, and stopping them. Gather in the Shrine of Ancestors, and do what must be done!"
Players:
Maximum Spin- Fey IllusionistCaz- Feybound- Hector13
- sofanthiel
Snowkiller- Town SextonToonyMan - SK WerebearElephant Parade- Guardian Angel (Snowkiller)- Crystalizedmire
- TricMagic
Replacement List:
Let's try to get some activity back into this Subforum with a good old Supernatual Mafia! Ideally I'd like a minimum of 9 players for this, but we'll manage with less if we need to.
While the Supernatural Set-up does tend to change a bit from game to game, you can get a good idea of how things generally work by reading through the previous games (or at least their role pms and night action results).
Previous games:
Supernatural 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59269.msg1328001#msg1328001)
Supernatural 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62587.msg1436015#msg1436015)
Supernatural 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=74938.msg1875341#msg1875341)
Supernatural 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.msg2473824#msg2473824)
Supernatural 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106608.msg3165006#msg3165006)
Supernatural 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4638437#msg4638437)
Supernatural 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5338667#msg5338667)
Supernatural 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150876.msg6242119#msg6242119)
Supernatural 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.0)
Supernatural 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251162#msg8251162)
Supernatural RP (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78693.msg2036065#msg2036065)
Supernatural Semi-Bastard (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115529.msg3563365#msg3563365)
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2023, 01:16:42 pm
Roles: The basic information about available town roles will be known. However, I will only give a general description of each role that will give an indication of what the role can do. More specific information will be given in role PMs as necessary. This means you will not know the specific rules of many of the roles, even if you know what they do. There may also be variations on the town roles, both within a game and between games.
Scum and 3rd party role information is not going to be posted in the thread.
All players are Town Aligned unless noted otherwise in their Role PM.
Quoting the Mod without permission results in a Modkill and a ban from the next game I run.
PMs are not allowed unless your Role specifically allows it.
Days will go for 72 hours (Ignoring weekends) or until everyone has voted (if there is a long period of inactivity after everyone votes I'll end the day to keep things moving).
In the event of a tie, no lynch will occur.
Night will go for 24 hours, though that's somewhat flexible. If you do not have your action in within the 24 hours you run the risk of losing your action for the night, though. If you choose not to use your action, please send that instead of just waiting for me to get on with the night without you.
Extensions: There will be NO Extensions for this game in order to keep things moving.
Shortens: Shortening the day requires 75% of the living players requesting it to succeed. If the Game is Shortened it will end as soon as I do the tally with 75%+ players voting for it. It is possible that I will end all voting for the day but need a bit to do the final write-up, in which case further votes will not be counted that day.
All votes should be colored red to make it easy for me to spot them.
In the event of a tie, a No-Lynch will occur.
Speaking While Dead: The dead may post once after they have died to comment on their death. They may not provide any information about the game in this post. After this, any posting in the game before it has ended will result in a one game ban from future games. Repeated abuse, or posts that have a major impact on the game, can result in a permaban from any future games.
Scum, Coven Witches, and some third parties will have special chat areas my mafia discord channel. I will grant you the appropriate roles as needed. If you are not on my discord, you will need to sign up before the game starts (let me know and I can post an invite link)
There is no Dead Chat for this game, since coming back from the dead is possible.
Event Order: The order of events is generally as follows:
Misdirection
Role-blocking
Protection
Investigations
Night Kills/Conversions
Disturbing the Dead (there is an order for this, if two people target the same corpse, but that's kept hidden)
All kills will be effectively simultaneous. (I may make some literary liberties with this in the PMs, though)
Also, not all roles require the player to leave the house. Generally, magic sounding roles are going to work like Psychic roles in Paranormal. If your role does not require you to leave your house to use, you will be informed of this fact. Roles who don't leave their house cannot be role-blocked by the Guard, though he still protects them.
Potential Town Roles
- Knight - a well trained, armed, and armored warrior. The Knight is too skilled to be easily slain by an attacker.
- Guard - the Guard can lock someone in their house and stand guard through the night. This keeps them in, and others out. At least as long as the guard is around.
- Mystic - Mystics can pierce the veil of reality to discover hidden truths. Seer, Oracles, and Fortune Tellers are all varieties of Mystic.
- Thief - A wanderer of the night. Thieves often spot what others are up to.
- Sorcerer - A powerful mage, the sorcerer likes to keep to himself and has the power to enforce his seclusion.
- Wizard - A powerful mage, the Wizard can use his powers to help keep others safe.
- Warlock - A mage who seeks knowledge from the shades of the dead
- Illusionist - A mage whose mastery of light and shadow can use misdirection to help or harm.
- Dreamwalker - An individual whose dreams may in fact be a reflection of reality
- Priest - An individual dedicated to the gods. How well they serve the gods depends on just how dedicated they actually are.
- Sexton - Charged with caring for the graveyard, he has much to do lately.
- Sage - A learned individual, who can use this knowledge to piece together the clues and discover the truth of the recent events
- Monster Hunter - A powerful warrior, trained to hunt down and kill the monsters that roam the world. May specialize in specific types.
- Witch - Secretive folk who practice forbidden, ancient rites. They hold few secrets from one another
- Werebear - Cursed or blessed, it is hard to say, but these people have great power within them. Beware their fury when provoked.
- Exorcist - Holy men and women trained in holy magics to battle the evils of the Underworld.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 07, 2023, 01:50:29 pm
Post by: Maxine on August 07, 2023, 01:53:54 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 07, 2023, 02:07:06 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2023, 02:12:35 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 07, 2023, 02:32:49 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 07, 2023, 03:00:14 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 07, 2023, 07:46:19 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 07, 2023, 10:10:13 pm
Okay I'm in.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 07, 2023, 11:46:11 pm
In. For similar reasons to Egan_BW.But there's only one slot available for 'lynched d1 for lurking' :(
Post by: sofanthiel on August 08, 2023, 05:04:09 am
But there's only one slot available for 'lynched d1 for lurking' :(
Well, now we actually get to make a decision on that front!
Post by: Egan_BW on August 08, 2023, 10:43:08 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 08, 2023, 10:49:52 am
Post by: Maxine on August 08, 2023, 11:16:03 am
We can always shake up the meta, you know. Maybe we eliminate whoever is most tryharding day 1.I'd rather do away with someone who doesn't plan on even pretending to care. :-\
Post by: Quarque on August 08, 2023, 12:36:48 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 08, 2023, 02:28:51 pm
S-S-S-Savage!We can always shake up the meta, you know. Maybe we eliminate whoever is most tryharding day 1.I'd rather do away with someone who doesn't plan on even pretending to care. :-\
Post by: hector13 on August 08, 2023, 02:43:57 pm
That’s how scum win D1: pretend to care more than the least interested townie.We can always shake up the meta, you know. Maybe we eliminate whoever is most tryharding day 1.I'd rather do away with someone who doesn't plan on even pretending to care. :-\
Post by: Egan_BW on August 08, 2023, 02:55:53 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on August 10, 2023, 12:05:43 pm
Also, if you haven't yet joined my mafia discord please do so! We need everyone on there before the game starts.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 11, 2023, 12:33:20 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2023, 12:37:32 pm
Here is an invite to the discord: https://discord.gg/BSM8q66H
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2023, 05:00:56 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 11, 2023, 05:09:05 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2023, 05:14:47 pm
Post by: Caz on August 11, 2023, 07:30:56 pm
Post by: Maxine on August 11, 2023, 07:53:56 pm
While poor form to do so after the slots were filled and a start time (loosely) set, I feel it is probably better to be a bit rude now than to impair the actual game later. Glhf.
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2023, 08:13:05 pm
In, totes on the proviso I’m not scum.
Actually having thought about it I can put less effort in as scum, so… make me scum?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 11, 2023, 08:29:04 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 11, 2023, 08:29:35 pm
Post by: Maxine on August 11, 2023, 08:30:32 pm
Oh ffs fine.I feel less bad seeing the slot so eagerly taken.
In, totes on the proviso I’m not scum.
Actually having thought about it I can put less effort in as scum, so… make me scum?
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2023, 08:38:44 pm
In. Sorry, I just wanted in on the fun.
If I’m scum, you’ll be the first NK :p
Post by: Egan_BW on August 11, 2023, 08:43:00 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2023, 08:45:37 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 11, 2023, 08:51:00 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 11, 2023, 08:53:32 pm
Oh ffs fine.I feel less bad seeing the slot so eagerly taken.
In, totes on the proviso I’m not scum.
Actually having thought about it I can put less effort in as scum, so… make me scum?
Nah I don’t want to play I just want the game to go on.
If nothing else, it helped me figure out that one of the apps my kid removed from the Home Screen on my phone was Discord, though.
Clearly.
Might be on a scum team with EP too…
Post by: sofanthiel on August 12, 2023, 04:16:51 am
Out.
Well, if he's out, I'm IN. (https://youtu.be/hf_7xAX_fBE)
Post by: TricMagic on August 12, 2023, 12:03:15 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 12, 2023, 07:49:54 pm
You're in, and for that reason, I'm out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFo83UOZY8)Out.
Well, if he's out, I'm IN. (https://youtu.be/hf_7xAX_fBE)
Post by: hector13 on August 12, 2023, 07:58:56 pm
Post by: TricMagic on August 13, 2023, 07:58:38 am
Guess I'm out then.You're in, and for that reason, I'm out. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFo83UOZY8)Out.
Well, if he's out, I'm IN. (https://youtu.be/hf_7xAX_fBE)
Post by: Quarque on August 13, 2023, 08:19:29 am
sorry
Post by: Mephansteras on August 13, 2023, 11:58:30 am
I'm going to close sign-ups in about 4 hours and then get the set-up process going. Game will start on Monday.
Post by: Mephansteras on August 14, 2023, 12:50:07 pm
If you are not on my Discord yet, though, you will need to be before we can start: https://discord.gg/BSM8q66H
Caz and possibly Snowkiller, I think, still need to sign up on there.
(If you are and just under a different name, just let me know).
Post by: Mephansteras on August 15, 2023, 10:43:31 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2023, 01:34:40 pm
“Among you, are those who would sow destruction upon us. But so, too, are those who can save us from destruction.” he pauses, and looks each of you in the eyes.
“So, by writ of the ancient rites, we entrust our safety to you. Each day you must return here, and deliberate amongst yourselves. Find those who would cause us harm, and mark them for execution.”
A puff of smoke rises up from the incense.
“We have the blessings of the Ancestors. Go and do what must be done. We are counting on you!”
Game has started! Day 1 will go until ~5pm Pacific Friday.
Post by: hector13 on August 16, 2023, 01:41:56 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 16, 2023, 01:48:14 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 16, 2023, 01:49:39 pm
Sorry Elephant Parade I rolled town so we might as well get you out of the way because the scum are either going to kill you N1 or you’re scum yourself.Better they kill me than someone who's played the game in the last five years.
Crystalizedmire, are you familiar with the concept of RVS?
Post by: Caz on August 16, 2023, 01:56:34 pm
TricMagic: If you had to gather in the shrine of ancients, which townie would you sacrifice first? A known good player, or an outlier?
Post by: Caz on August 16, 2023, 01:59:51 pm
I have literally no idea what the relation between Elephant Parade and scum is so I'm voting hector13
Meh, lazy.
Post by: hector13 on August 16, 2023, 02:01:22 pm
Should probably have asked Meph about secret messages but it’s very obvious, it is easy to figure out what it says, and it’s a joke.
Caz: why shouldn’t we eliminate EP today?
sofanthiel: who do you think EP’s partner is?
Snowkiller: what do you look for in a D1 elimination?
ToonyMan: at what point do you expect to have the game solved?
Crystalizedmire: I’m running out of questions so… I’m not going to ask you one. What are your thoughts regarding this?
TricMagic: HATS!?
EP
Sorry Elephant Parade I rolled town so we might as well get you out of the way because the scum are either going to kill you N1 or you’re scum yourself.Better they kill me than someone who's played the game in the last five years.
Does that mean you’re not going to try?
Caz
Hector13: If you were a guard, how would you choose who to imprison and why?
It would depend how comfortable I am with my read on the person. If I’m not sure who’s scum, then I would try to protect the person I most think is townie.
You can read into that I consider the blocking aspect to be more powerful than the protection aspect, but the protection certainly adds a great deal of utility to the role.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 16, 2023, 02:03:52 pm
Does that mean you’re not going to try?Of course not. I'm just saying I'm pretty rusty.
I don't see much point in doing RVS when we've already got an actual conversation going.
Post by: hector13 on August 16, 2023, 02:06:07 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 16, 2023, 02:13:36 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 16, 2023, 02:16:03 pm
Maximum Spin: Have we already left RVS? Is there any point in going back?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 16, 2023, 02:20:53 pm
I'm town and my ability is pretty okay, which is always a great start, so I'm going to approach this from the direction of figuring out who to trust from my good friends hector13, Toonyman, and TricMagic while keeping an eye on the ciphers for obvious signs of treason. To that end, I'm going to need a six paragraph essay from each of you on why the ancestors are awesome.
Elephant Parade: Anyone who refuses to do RVS is okay in my book. I'm not voting you today just for that alone.
hector13: Affirmative.
sofanthiel: You, at least, I gleaned a little about from the very short game that didn't work at all. Can you tell me what, if anything, you learned from that?
I agree that it'd be worth prodding the people who haven't posted yet with an RVS question, but you've already done that, and is there much difference between one RVS question than two?Are you asking me specifically because you've read old games and know my position, or just out of sheer coincidence?
Maximum Spin: Have we already left RVS? Is there any point in going back?
I'm in a good mood this afternoon so I'll just give you a straight answer: fuuuuuuuuck RVS, man. I left RVS yesterday after setting off a dirty bomb in the town square. If you look back you'll turn into salt.
Post by: hector13 on August 16, 2023, 02:25:34 pm
I agree that it'd be worth prodding the people who haven't posted yet with an RVS question, but you've already done that, and is there much difference between one RVS question than two?
Maximum Spin: Have we already left RVS? Is there any point in going back?
I’m not entirely convinced we are out of RVS, to be fair. As for RVS questions, the game is won and lost on the activity of the town really, and anything that encourages that is (broadly speaking) good.
What is it that has you convinced we’re out of RVS?
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 16, 2023, 02:32:25 pm
Quickly google searches RVSSorry Elephant Parade I rolled town so we might as well get you out of the way because the scum are either going to kill you N1 or you’re scum yourself.Better they kill me than someone who's played the game in the last five years.
Crystalizedmire, are you familiar with the concept of RVS?
Recreational vehicle, huh
Post by: ToonyMan on August 16, 2023, 02:37:20 pm
Caz is innocent, pure, clean. Has done no wrong. Only looking out for other people. Caz does not know what self is. Caz does not know who they are.
Hector represents the darkness of night, shadow, deception. Hector knows exactly who they are.
sofanthiel reminds you of your childhood. The choices you made with your limited knowledge, the actions you had no control over, the strengths and weaknesses you saw in others. Crystalizedmire wants you to remember. They hold no malice.
Snowkiller is whatever you want them to be. Snowkiller will fill any role.
Elephant Parade has been around for a long time, a very long time. Their skin has aged so much it has become dry and cracked, however it has never been thicker. Elephant Parade never been stronger. Durable.
Crystalizedmire is just here to have fun. Like a cheerful, sunny day. Crystalizedmire is icecream on a hot day, hot chocolate on a cold day, or a close friend on a lonely day.
TricMagic is passion, chaotic passion. Impulsive, unpredictable, but constantly evolving...Tric is the scariest player of all.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 16, 2023, 02:49:03 pm
ToonyMan flatters me, therefore ToonyMan is town.
Post by: Caz on August 16, 2023, 02:52:33 pm
Caz: why shouldn’t we eliminate EP today?
Cause there may be a better lynch? We have only begun the day and you want to tunnel on a pre-game fancy?
Better they kill me than someone who's played the game in the last five years.
Ok I hate you but many games have been lost on the obsession of killing the most unhelpful townie over and over.
Maximum Spin encompasses everything. All matter. All nothing. Everything. They exist everywhere. They exist nowhere. Max is the sound a tree makes when it falls and nobody is around.
Caz is innocent, pure, clean. Has done no wrong. Only looking out for other people. Caz does not know what self is. Caz does not know who they are.
Hector represents the darkness of night, shadow, deception. Hector knows exactly who they are.
sofanthiel reminds you of your childhood. The choices you made with your limited knowledge, the actions you had no control over, the strengths and weaknesses you saw in others. Crystalizedmire wants you to remember. They hold no malice.
Snowkiller is whatever you want them to be. Snowkiller will fill any role.
Elephant Parade has been around for a long time, a very long time. Their skin has aged so much it has become dry and cracked, however it has never been thicker. Elephant Parade never been stronger. Durable.
Crystalizedmire is just here to have fun. Like a cheerful, sunny day. Crystalizedmire is icecream on a hot day, hot chocolate on a cold day, or a close friend on a lonely day.
TricMagic is passion, chaotic passion. Impulsive, unpredictable, but constantly evolving...Tric is the scariest player of all.
Cute but how is it actually helpful?? You know better Toony.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 16, 2023, 02:53:06 pm
I’m not entirely convinced we are out of RVS, to be fair. As for RVS questions, the game is won and lost on the activity of the town really, and anything that encourages that is (broadly speaking) good.Activity is better than inactivity, but some kinds of activity are more productive than others, and my impression is that RVS is less productive than a serious hashing-out of suspicions. My concern is that by asking RVS questions, I'd be allowing people to engage with those questions instead of the ongoing situation, i.e. replacing medium-quality activity with low.
What is it that has you convinced we’re out of RVS?
As for why we've left RVS: we have multiple things to talk about besides random questions. First of all, your push on me, which I don't think is entirely unserious; the initial question presumably was, but the fact that two of your RVS questions were about me makes me think you might be pushing me for more than RVS/reaction-testing reasons, meaning that you either suspect me a bit or are scum trying to build a case (leaning toward the former—the latter seems weird to me given that it would put you in the spotlight at a time when you don't have to be). There's also Crystallizedmire's unusual (if entirely explicable) reply to your post.
The only problem is that some people haven't engaged yet, meaning that they could sneak by while we overfocus on the ones who have, but I think we'd be better-served by their thoughts on what's happened so far than their answers to bullshit questions (though I notice that three of your RVS questions were about what's happened so far, which is good).
Are you asking me specifically because you've read old games and know my position, or just out of sheer coincidence?I picked you because I was pretty sure you're the most experienced player here who isn't hector13, and I thought the question would be better directed at someone who was familiar with the game. If I'd known, I'd have picked someone else; you hating RVS in general makes the question basically moot.
I'm in a good mood this afternoon so I'll just give you a straight answer: fuuuuuuuuck RVS, man. I left RVS yesterday after setting off a dirty bomb in the town square. If you look back you'll turn into salt.
As for my essay, I'd like to ask for a two-week extension; my mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, brother, sister, and uncle all died last weekend, along with three cousins and both my dogs. I hope you understand.
Someone who's played more could explain it better, but RVS is the start of a Bay12 game where everyone asks goofy questions to get the conversation moving. Look at Hector's post where he prods basically everyone, or the first couple pages of any game in this subforum.Quickly google searches RVSSorry Elephant Parade I rolled town so we might as well get you out of the way because the scum are either going to kill you N1 or you’re scum yourself.Better they kill me than someone who's played the game in the last five years.
Crystalizedmire, are you familiar with the concept of RVS?
Recreational vehicle, huh
Maximum Spin encompasses everything. All matter. All nothing. Everything. They exist everywhere. They exist nowhere. Max is the sound a tree makes when it falls and nobody is around.This made me laugh.
Caz is innocent, pure, clean. Has done no wrong. Only looking out for other people. Caz does not know what self is. Caz does not know who they are.
Hector represents the darkness of night, shadow, deception. Hector knows exactly who they are.
sofanthiel reminds you of your childhood. The choices you made with your limited knowledge, the actions you had no control over, the strengths and weaknesses you saw in others. Crystalizedmire wants you to remember. They hold no malice.
Snowkiller is whatever you want them to be. Snowkiller will fill any role.
Elephant Parade has been around for a long time, a very long time. Their skin has aged so much it has become dry and cracked, however it has never been thicker. Elephant Parade never been stronger. Durable.
Crystalizedmire is just here to have fun. Like a cheerful, sunny day. Crystalizedmire is icecream on a hot day, hot chocolate on a cold day, or a close friend on a lonely day.
TricMagic is passion, chaotic passion. Impulsive, unpredictable, but constantly evolving...Tric is the scariest player of all.
Caz, Crystalizedmire, Elephant Parade, Snowkiller, and sofanthiel: Have you read any recent games on this forum for a better understanding of what to expect? The life you save could be your own.Yes, I've read a dozen or so games over the last few months. I wasn't lying when I said I'd been looking to get back into Mafia; the only reason I haven't joined the last few games is that they looked to be expert-level.
ToonyMan flatters me, therefore ToonyMan is town.
Post by: Caz on August 16, 2023, 03:00:04 pm
As for why we've left RVS: we have multiple things to talk about besides random questions. First of all, your push on me, which I don't think is entirely unserious; the initial question presumably was, but the fact that two of your RVS questions were about me makes me think you might be pushing me for more than RVS/reaction-testing reasons, meaning that you either suspect me a bit or are scum trying to build a case (leaning toward the former—the latter seems weird to me given that it would put you in the spotlight at a time when you don't have to be). There's also Crystallizedmire's unusual (if entirely explicable) reply to your post.
I think we've left RVS. Toony's post has rubbed me the wrong way.
Caz, Crystalizedmire, Elephant Parade, Snowkiller, and sofanthiel: Have you read any recent games on this forum for a better understanding of what to expect? The life you save could be your own.
ToonyMan flatters me, therefore ToonyMan is town.
Not yet. It's late here though and it's the plan for tomorrow. Have you? What have you learned from it?
ToonyMan flatters me, therefore ToonyMan is town.
Bingo. Toony asks no questions but seeks to amuse, to distract.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 16, 2023, 03:04:30 pm
Snowkiller: what do you look for in a D1 elimination?I'm new to this game genre but I don't think I "look" for anything in D1, unless the person slips up and says something sus. It's the first day. I don't know enough about the game in general nor the people in this particular instance to say "yay" or "nay" on lynching. That's why I usually go for no lynch in the critically few mafia games I've been in.
Ninja Edit: Yes, Maximum Spin. I've been using various resources to get up to speed on the mafia game and its various formats. I'm still not an expert and will likely look dumb for the entirety of this game.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 16, 2023, 03:09:05 pm
I was in most of those!Caz, Crystalizedmire, Elephant Parade, Snowkiller, and sofanthiel: Have you read any recent games on this forum for a better understanding of what to expect? The life you save could be your own.
ToonyMan flatters me, therefore ToonyMan is town.
Not yet. It's late here though and it's the plan for tomorrow. Have you? What have you learned from it?
... and what I learned was that I'm probably scum and should be lynched first, I guess.
Wow, unexpectedly good turnout on the checking other games thing. Do your homework, kids! Essays are due Friday!
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 16, 2023, 03:10:57 pm
I picked you because I was pretty sure you're the most experienced player here who isn't hector13, and I thought the question would be better directed at someone who was familiar with the game. If I'd known, I'd have picked someone else; you hating RVS in general makes the question basically moot.No, that makes my answer even more important. Because it is CORRECT.
Quote
As for my essay, I'd like to ask for a two-week extension; my mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, brother, sister, and uncle all died last weekend, along with three cousins and both my dogs. I hope you understand.If your whole family is dead, you should have plenty of distraction-free time to work on your essay now.
Post by: hector13 on August 16, 2023, 03:16:12 pm
Caz, Crystalizedmire, Elephant Parade, Snowkiller, and sofanthiel: Have you read any recent games on this forum for a better understanding of what to expect? The life you save could be your own.
ToonyMan flatters me, therefore ToonyMan is town.
I’m not sure he can be trusted. I’m apparently deception, and he was on my team in the last game; he knows better.
EP: I mean right now, I believe you are the best elimination, but that’s based entirely on my pregame banter, so it’s serious in that respect. However, that’s in the first few hours of D1 and if you remain the best elimination based entirely on my pregame banter at the end of D1 then the town’s probably lost, even if you are scum.
Snowkiller
Snowkiller: what do you look for in a D1 elimination?I'm new to this game genre but I don't think I "look" for anything in D1, unless the person slips up and says something sus. It's the first day. I don't know enough about the game in general nor the people in this particular instance to say "yay" or "nay" on lynching. That's why I usually go for no lynch in the critically few mafia games I've been in.
Ninja Edit: Yes, Maximum Spin. I've been using various resources to get up to speed on the mafia game and its various formats. I'm still not an expert and will likely look dumb for the entirety of this game.
Don’t worry about looking dumb. I’ve played mafia on and off for maybe the last decade and the last game I was in I made two shockingly stupid mistakes that contributed to my team losing the game. It’s better to try and look dumb than do nothing, ‘cause doing nothing will lose you the game.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 16, 2023, 03:27:00 pm
Maximum Spin: 01001100 01100101 01110100 00011001 01110011 00100000 01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 00011000 01100101 01101101This is funny, but that's mainly because I thought that we were the ones asking the questions
Should probably have asked Meph about secret messages but it’s very obvious, it is easy to figure out what it says, and it’s a joke.
Caz: why shouldn’t we eliminate EP today?
sofanthiel: who do you think EP’s partner is?
Snowkiller: what do you look for in a D1 elimination?
ToonyMan: at what point do you expect to have the game solved?
Crystalizedmire: I’m running out of questions so… I’m not going to ask you one. What are your thoughts regarding this?
TricMagic: HATS!?
Post by: hector13 on August 16, 2023, 03:55:28 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 16, 2023, 04:35:26 pm
Uuuh...
I've played with Max, Hector, and Tric recently.
I've played with Caz somewhat recently.
I've played with Elephant Parade over a decade ago.
I've never played with sofanthiel, Snowkiller, or Crystalizedmire.
ToonyMan: at what point do you expect to have the game solved?Right now.
Or probably Day 2.
What I can say now: This game probably has two mafia. This is the assumption I'm going with.
Cute but how is it actually helpful?? You know better Toony.It's not helpful, at all.
I just wanted
to do it.
I think we've left RVS. Toony's post has rubbed me the wrong way.Woah woah woah, I just got here.
Is Max more or less suspicious for townreading me over it?
I don't understand the flow of logic here.ToonyMan flatters me, therefore ToonyMan is town.Bingo. Toony asks no questions but seeks to amuse, to distract.
But fine.
I'll be useful.
I'm a mill---coughcough
I'm a miilllle-----uuuughhhhh
I can't do it! I cannot lie! My alignment shines brighter than the wettest evergreens! To lie would only create confusion, and confusion leads to hatred and sadness. I cannot bluff being a kook this game. Mafia are going to have to kill me I guess since I don't know how they'll win otherwise.
Looks newbie enough to me.Snowkiller: what do you look for in a D1 elimination?I'm new to this game genre but I don't think I "look" for anything in D1, unless the person slips up and says something sus. It's the first day. I don't know enough about the game in general nor the people in this particular instance to say "yay" or "nay" on lynching. That's why I usually go for no lynch in the critically few mafia games I've been in.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 16, 2023, 04:50:43 pm
For the GM: I edited my response to the question I asked. Nothing game-relevant or breaking, but still, I broke the rule(s). If I get a pee-pee slap then I'll take it. I wasn't trying to do any weird stuff. I'm just used to getting yelled at for double-posting, since that's a general forum rule everywhere you go.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 16, 2023, 04:54:08 pm
I'm enjoying Elephant's....big....posts as well.
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2023, 04:58:16 pm
Crap! I forgot--I'm not supposed to edit posts in a mafia game.
For the GM: I edited my response to the question I asked. Nothing game-relevant or breaking, but still, I broke the rule(s). If I get a pee-pee slap then I'll take it. I wasn't trying to do any weird stuff. I'm just used to getting yelled at for double-posting, since that's a general forum rule everywhere you go.
Eh, if you're going to screw up and do that D1 is the day to do it. Just be mindful of it in the future.
Post by: hector13 on August 16, 2023, 04:59:59 pm
Also Toony broh, you know that someone’s status as a newbie has nothing to do with their alignment. If you’re liking EP and Snowkiller, who are you not liking?
Post by: TricMagic on August 16, 2023, 07:19:02 pm
"Pointy hats." They nod with agreement.
Caz: why shouldn’t we eliminate EP today?
sofanthiel: who do you think EP’s partner is?
Snowkiller: what do you look for in a D1 elimination?
ToonyMan: at what point do you expect to have the game solved?
Crystalizedmire: I’m running out of questions so… I’m not going to ask you one. What are your thoughts regarding this?
TricMagic: HATS!?
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2023, 08:20:03 pm
Elephant Parade: 1: Hector13
Hector13: 1: Crystalizedmire
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
TricMagic: 1: ToonyMan
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: Caz on August 17, 2023, 06:47:46 am
I'm new to this game genre but I don't think I "look" for anything in D1, unless the person slips up and says something sus. It's the first day. I don't know enough about the game in general nor the people in this particular instance to say "yay" or "nay" on lynching. That's why I usually go for no lynch in the critically few mafia games I've been in.
Yeah... don't do that. The lynch is the only tool the town has to win the game. It provides vital information, whether the flip is scum or not. No lynching is only for specific circumstances where it would be beneficial such as there being 4 players left and a 1 scum remaining (25% vs 33% chance and an extra day of discussion). NLing day 1 is just silly. Actually looking back at day 1 when we are further along in the game can be very enlightening, once further information is revealed.
Wow, unexpectedly good turnout on the checking other games thing. Do your homework, kids! Essays are due Friday!
Playing Mother Townisa just makes me think you are trying to look town rather than actually hunting yourself. You're just repeating Meph's advice from the first page, lol. How has your reading of previous games helped you to see what is happening so far?
Don’t worry about looking dumb. I’ve played mafia on and off for maybe the last decade and the last game I was in I made two shockingly stupid mistakes that contributed to my team losing the game. It’s better to try and look dumb than do nothing, ‘cause doing nothing will lose you the game.
Yeah and we can also find out who wants to throw newbies under the bus. Guess who does that?
Caz: why shouldn’t we eliminate EP today?
Because it was your idea. I have my own ideas for today.
Post by: Caz on August 17, 2023, 06:49:42 am
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 10:47:43 am
‘Cause another thing scum do with newbies is offer advice. It makes them look active and helpful, while actually being neither. You, me, Max, and EP have all jumped on Snowkiller for guidance. Would you say there’s scum in that grouping?
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 10:48:34 am
Sorry Elephant Parade I rolled town so we might as well get you out of the way because the scum are either going to kill you N1 or you’re scum yourself.
Wouldn't a day 1 lynch be as useful to the bad guys as a nightkill?
sofanthiel: who do you think EP’s partner is?
I'm pretty sure I am. Don't know about any of you, though...
sofanthiel: You, at least, I gleaned a little about from the very short game that didn't work at all. Can you tell me what, if anything, you learned from that?
Hmmm, maybe the fact that we should make sure everyone's available before starting small games? Oh, and that people who change their minds often and talk a lot are suspicious? Granted, that was just one example of that, so I can't draw any definitive conclusions. It wasn't really the most fruitful of games, learning-wise (or anything-wise :P).
sofanthiel: Have you read any recent games on this forum for a better understanding of what to expect? The life you save could be your own.
Yeah, although, with my limited understanding of the terminology and the way stuff actually works, I don't know how much that helped. Frankly, as the core of this game is reasoning, I don't know how much that could help.
I'm new to this game genre but I don't think I "look" for anything in D1, unless the person slips up and says something sus. It's the first day. I don't know enough about the game in general nor the people in this particular instance to say "yay" or "nay" on lynching. That's why I usually go for no lynch in the critically few mafia games I've been in.
I agree with that. Lynching on the first day is just a coin-flip, unless someone outright admits to being a mafioso. Anyone?
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 10:53:25 am
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 11:01:28 am
What makes you so sure EP is on your team?
Eliminating someone on D1 allows the town to choose what information is revealed, and the elimination is also the town’s only weapon against scum. A 2/9 chance of hitting an baddie is better than an 0% chance of hitting a baddie, eh? Otherwise the scum get to choose who to kill, and they’re not going to choose someone that’ll help the town solve the game.
Also, being fickle (at least on D1) isn’t a bad idea. Pushing lots of different people to actually contribute means it’s harder for scum to hide. The trick is doing it in such a way that looks genuine (scum won’t be pressured by someone obviously just doing the rounds) and sticking on things that bother you about someone. The other trick is learning the right things to stick on…
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 01:07:28 pm
Yeah, although, with my limited understanding of the terminology and the way stuff actually works, I don't know how much that helped. Frankly, as the core of this game is reasoning, I don't know how much that could help.I didn't say it would help, I said it might save your life, because you can flatter the more experienced players by talking up their past exploits so they don't want to kill you. :P
No, in all seriousness, there are two parts to this. One is that it will genuinely help you figure out what the other players are like by seeing how they have acted in other circumstances. The other side, though, is given away if you look closely at what I said: I addressed the players I don't know very well, specifically. That's because I want to see your reactions. And everyone else's, too. I'm a banterer. I just want to chat because it lets me read your mind.
You, me, Max, and EP have all jumped on Snowkiller for guidance.Just as a point of order, I don't remember saying anything to him specifically.
I'm going to need to hear more from TricMagic today. Yeah, I know, a pressure vote from me, sign of the apocalypse, but I think it actually works on him?
Tric, how do you like your role? I don't want to hear any details, I know you want to save those for a dramatic reveal, I just want to know if you like it.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 01:17:29 pm
Regardless, you’ve offered advice to a newer player, which falls within the remit of the question I asked following that sentence.
You know I don’t like it when folks edit out context :p
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 01:25:09 pm
You know I don’t like it when folks edit out context :pI don't like it when quotes are super long and take up half the post. :P
Your post was RIGHT THERE! You can just scroll up! Anyway, I was just objecting to the specific statement, not the general one, so I focused on that.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 01:31:05 pm
You were scum in the last game as well!
You’re here chatting about how folks should look at previous games as markers for how people act in certain situations and making identical arguments as when you were scum. What conclusions should we draw from this?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 01:33:10 pm
We had this exact argument in the last game we were in! I’m lazy so I expect other people to be lazy too!
You were scum in the last game as well!
You’re here chatting about how folks should look at previous games as markers for how people act in certain situations and making identical arguments as when you were scum. What conclusions should we draw from this?
... and what I learned was that I'm probably scum and should be lynched first, I guess.You can't out-think me, hector! Don't even try.
But look, I quoted your whole post this time, as a special treat just for you. Because you're my scum partner.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 01:38:40 pm
We were on different teams though. I’ll just use that as entirely concrete evidence that we’re on different teams again, so you must be scum in this one.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 01:43:56 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 01:48:01 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 02:15:18 pm
Also Toony broh, you know that someone’s status as a newbie has nothing to do with their alignment. If you’re liking EP and Snowkiller, who are you not liking?Being a newbie, no. But I find new players say things that are awfully revealing~
Hmmm, Tric saying something subtly revealing about his role? Probably a good sign he's town?TricMagic: HATS!?"Pointy hats." They nod with agreement.
@Caz:
So much spunk. So much energy.
How do you feel about Max?
This strikes me as a pretty bold thing for sofanthiel to say if they're newb!mafia as opposed to newb!town.I'm new to this game genre but I don't think I "look" for anything in D1, unless the person slips up and says something sus. It's the first day. I don't know enough about the game in general nor the people in this particular instance to say "yay" or "nay" on lynching. That's why I usually go for no lynch in the critically few mafia games I've been in.I agree with that. Lynching on the first day is just a coin-flip, unless someone outright admits to being a mafioso. Anyone?
I think it's more likely sofanthiel is town here.
What makes you so sure EP is on your team?Isn't it odd sofanthiel is "pretty sure" Elephant Parade is town alongside them?
Is this something softanthiel would say as mafia? As a new player? Maybe, but I'm leaning no for now.
Tric, how do you like your role? I don't want to hear any details, I know you want to save those for a dramatic reveal, I just want to know if you like it.His first post was already revealing though.
@Max and Hector:
I don't really trust either of you. I think it's totally possible you would do this recent banter just now as both mafia.
Elephant Parade and Caz seem to be trying. I'm more on the fence with them because I can see them faking this.
I can't tell if Caz is serious about ending RVS to vote me. If they're serious I think they're absolutely town.
Snowkiller and sofanthiel want to no-lynch, on D1, in a 9 player game. I think they're both town.
I'm not sure about Crystalizedmire as the last newb. They look newb, but I don't have a great sense so far.
Tric popped in and left. I think I agree a little with Max here, what's up Tric?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 02:34:30 pm
Caz, you've spent practically all of your time calling out obviously bad posts for being obviously bad, which is a niche scum can fill as easily as town. What's something running through your head that I, or anyone, might actually disagree with?
People have already gotten on Tric's case for not posting, so I'll ask Crystallizedmire: why haven't you had more to say? You know that if you don't post, it's really hard for anyone to get a read on you, right? Do you still think Hector is suspicious?
MaximumSpin: You hate RVS, but you've spent most of your time joking around. ¿Que? Is it specifically the format you don't like?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 02:55:37 pm
MaximumSpin: You hate RVS, but you've spent most of your time joking around. ¿Que? Is it specifically the format you don't like?What does joking around have to do with RVS? I do that the whole game.
I was going to put something here, but I realized I'm not ready to say anything else yet. I didn't want to let the little bar go to waste, though.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 03:02:06 pm
They both generate lots of low-value (to reads, not entertainment) text. I assumed that was your reason for hating RVS and thought you would dislike excessive joking for the same reason; am I wrong?MaximumSpin: You hate RVS, but you've spent most of your time joking around. ¿Que? Is it specifically the format you don't like?What does joking around have to do with RVS? I do that the whole game.
I was going to put something here, but I realized I'm not ready to say anything else yet. I didn't want to let the little bar go to waste, though.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 03:06:55 pm
@EP to be fair I was mostly voting you to get the game going. I think it worked? Anyway, I don’t think my vote functions well on you anymore.
Let’s sort out some pressure.
CrystallizedMire, I’d like to see some more from you. Who do you think is most likely to be town just now? Who do you think is most likely to be scum? Whose alignment would you most like to figure out?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 03:08:35 pm
They both generate lots of low-value (to reads, not entertainment) text. I assumed that was your reason for hating RVS and thought you would dislike excessive joking for the same reason; am I wrong?I get a lot of value out of banter, as do other people here. Games have been won based mainly on banter.
I hate RVS for being ineffectual.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 03:14:53 pm
I dunno man. Banter can be useful to see how freaked someone is about being found out, but… well, once certain conditions are met, it becomes a bit ineffectual too.They both generate lots of low-value (to reads, not entertainment) text. I assumed that was your reason for hating RVS and thought you would dislike excessive joking for the same reason; am I wrong?I get a lot of value out of banter, as do other people here. Games have been won based mainly on banter.
I hate RVS for being ineffectual.
RVS just takes ages sometimes. You just need to find ways of getting out of it quickly. At least as town, anyway.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 03:17:26 pm
I guess that's plausible. None of the games I've read have had someone banter as much and as far into D1 as you, though.They both generate lots of low-value (to reads, not entertainment) text. I assumed that was your reason for hating RVS and thought you would dislike excessive joking for the same reason; am I wrong?I get a lot of value out of banter, as do other people here. Games have been won based mainly on banter.
I hate RVS for being ineffectual.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 03:20:03 pm
I dunno man. Banter can be useful to see how freaked someone is about being found out, but… well, once certain conditions are met, it becomes a bit ineffectual too.I think there are important clues about the mental state of players whom I know, too. Like, because of the previous conversation, I'm definitely not interested in lynching ToonyMan today. It's true that banter also has its natural limit, though; I'd say it has reached that limit in this game, which is why I didn't bother continuing the back-and-forth with you or anything.
I agree about finding ways to get out of RVS quickly, of course.
I guess that's plausible. None of the games I've read have had someone banter as much and as far into D1 as you, though.Sometimes I banter all the way to the end, or even into d2!
I tend to get bored before then, though.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 03:30:23 pm
I’d also caution against trusting Toony quite so early in the game. We both know he’s a savvy player, and plays to his wincon come what may.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 03:32:15 pm
Your unwillingness to continue bantering with me would thus imply you have a stronger read on me than before. Willing to share?I didn't say trust. Give me some credit.
I’d also caution against trusting Toony quite so early in the game. We both know he’s a savvy player, and plays to his wincon come what may.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 03:33:48 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 03:45:56 pm
I’m assuming you’re claiming town and haven’t just outed yourself and your scum partner EP :p
Hahaha, I sure hope not! Right, E-to-the-P?
What makes you so sure EP is on your team?
I've got no reason to believe EP is more likely town than the rest of you, but him and I being on the same team is more likely than the alternative since one of the variables is already known. To be honest, the only explanation for me answering in such an admittedly weird way was because the question itself suggested that EP is mafia, which I don't think is necessarily true.
Eliminating someone on D1 allows the town to choose what information is revealed, and the elimination is also the town’s only weapon against scum. A 2/9 chance of hitting an baddie is better than an 0% chance of hitting a baddie, eh? Otherwise the scum get to choose who to kill, and they’re not going to choose someone that’ll help the town solve the game.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not just a 0% chance of hitting a baddie; it's also avoiding a 77.7% chance of hitting a townie. There's a very high probability of getting rid of a possible special role with no solid evidence—well, except for Max's mind-reading ability, that is. Granted, I haven't done the math, so I don't know what this would entail in the long term or whether there is an optimal strategy here (I'm confident some of you have, though!).
I didn't say it would help, I said it might save your life, because you can flatter the more experienced players by talking up their past exploits so they don't want to kill you. :P
Hey, remember that one time you... figured out it was Quarque? That was cool, right? We made such a great team! :D
This strikes me as a pretty bold thing for sofanthiel to say if they're newb!mafia as opposed to newb!town.
I think it's more likely sofanthiel is town here.
I have to agree because that's some sound logic right there!!
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 03:53:29 pm
You also can’t work on statistics. They can be manipulated to make ‘em say what you want ‘em to say. Like justifying sitting on the fence…
Post by: Snowkiller on August 17, 2023, 03:56:53 pm
"But Snow!", you'll cry. "You can't not lynch for the entire game! It's how the town does their thing unless they have power roles!"
I get that. Really, I do. And I never said to not lynch EVER. I said, avoid D1 lynching UNLESS someone says something undeniably sus.
Just putting this here for the couple of you who pointed my NL preference out.
You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, man. Eliminated townies still win with the rest of us, so you can’t be worrying about hitting them with an elimination.This came in before I posted. It's got me thinking. I suppose, if one wishes to get technical, that the W goes to everyone who was town--even those who were lynched. But then, playing the game is fun so you still don't want to take an L by being wrongly lynched. I still stand by my lack of desire to lynch, but I will submit that I'm more open to voting for a lynch. But again, it still ultimately comes down to "who is sus." I have not seen anyone as of yet who is.
You also can’t work on statistics. They can be manipulated to make ‘em say what you want ‘em to say. Like justifying sitting on the fence…
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 04:06:55 pm
You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, man. Eliminated townies still win with the rest of us, so you can’t be worrying about hitting them with an elimination.Fun fact: 90% of statistics is made up on the spot
You also can’t work on statistics. They can be manipulated to make ‘em say what you want ‘em to say. Like justifying sitting on the fence…
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 04:07:35 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on August 17, 2023, 04:09:38 pm
Caz: 1: Elephant Parade
Crystalizedmire: 1: Hector13
Hector13: 1: Crystalizedmire
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
TricMagic: 2: Maximum Spin, ToonyMan
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 04:17:10 pm
You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, man. Eliminated townies still win with the rest of us, so you can’t be worrying about hitting them with an elimination.
It's more about our collective ability to win rather than innocent individuals dying. Every lynched townie is one less vote for the mafia and, once again, possibly one less special role working its night shift!
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 04:21:04 pm
What kind of thing would you consider sus? How would you go about finding these things?
It's not an unsound argument, and if you genuinely have no clue, it can indeed be safer to wait for the mafia to give us a hint in the form of a dead body. On the other hand, they could just no-kill and leave you in D1 Again, the D1ening. Still, if I really felt that I had no clue, I'd agree with you. But do you really think you have no clue?
One thing about the clue the scum give is that it’s going to benefit them more than it benefits town, guaranteed. Don’t give them the impetus by letting them drip feed us what they want us to know.
PPE:
You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, man. Eliminated townies still win with the rest of us, so you can’t be worrying about hitting them with an elimination.
It's more about our collective ability to win rather than innocent individuals dying. Every lynched townie is one less vote for the mafia and, once again, possibly one less special role working its night shift!
While the town outman the scum, we can still win the game. I mean, that’s kind of the scum’s wincon. Eliminated townies still give us information, even on D1. We can examine who they pressured, who they thought were town, who was pressuring them, who thought they were town or scum, and that helps us figure out who to trust and who not to.
Regardless, it’ll happen whether you want it to or not. The experienced players outweigh the newer ones, and they’re not going to want a no lynch. You’re going to have to pick a side eventually, might as well get that ball rolling now.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 04:29:35 pm
It's not an unsound argument, and if you genuinely have no clue, it can indeed be safer to wait for the mafia to give us a hint in the form of a dead body. On the other hand, they could just no-kill and leave you in D1 Again, the D1ening.
Would they ever actually do that, though? Isn't it always better for them to just pick at random because, unlike us, that'd be a free kill? The only world in which something like that does happen is one with special power shenanigans ruining the killers' evil plans.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 04:32:46 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 04:33:35 pm
One thing about the clue the scum give is that it’s going to benefit them more than it benefits town, guaranteed. Don’t give them the impetus by letting them drip feed us what they want us to know.I mean, I have sometimes played games where scum just make bafflingly bad choices, but yes, in general, agreed.
I think I know who I want to lynch this turn, but I still need to hear from TricMagic.
Absolutely. I would. I have. Killing at random can be dangerous! Especially if there are wereskunks or bearwives around. No-killing is sometimes strategic and often hilarious.It's not an unsound argument, and if you genuinely have no clue, it can indeed be safer to wait for the mafia to give us a hint in the form of a dead body. On the other hand, they could just no-kill and leave you in D1 Again, the D1ening.
Would they ever actually do that, though? Isn't it always better for them to just pick at random because, unlike us, that'd be a free kill? The only world in which something like that does happen is one with special power shenanigans ruining the killers' evil plans.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 04:41:29 pm
Oh, you've played mafia before? I was under the impression you haven't. My mistake.I didn't say it would help, I said it might save your life, because you can flatter the more experienced players by talking up their past exploits so they don't want to kill you. :PHey, remember that one time you... figured out it was Quarque? That was cool, right? We made such a great team! :D
Your posts haven't really engaged with the game yet, Crystalizedmire.You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, man. Eliminated townies still win with the rest of us, so you can’t be worrying about hitting them with an elimination.Fun fact: 90% of statistics is made up on the spot
You also can’t work on statistics. They can be manipulated to make ‘em say what you want ‘em to say. Like justifying sitting on the fence…
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 04:45:24 pm
Someone who has played with Hector before: Is he usually in support of day 1 lynching?There we go.
Yes. D1 lynching is very common.
It does miss scum a majority of the time, but not always.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 04:51:05 pm
You're absolutely correct because I barely have anything to work off of and I probably shouldn't have voted against hector13! However, I can't help but feel a little suspicious about his posts since I'm usually in favour of skipping lynching on the first day(I have played 2 games of werewolf outside this forum). Their post has struck me as odd but I might change my vote(if that is possible) if this is usual behaviour from them.Your posts haven't really engaged with the game yet, Crystalizedmire.You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, man. Eliminated townies still win with the rest of us, so you can’t be worrying about hitting them with an elimination.Fun fact: 90% of statistics is made up on the spot
You also can’t work on statistics. They can be manipulated to make ‘em say what you want ‘em to say. Like justifying sitting on the fence…
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 04:58:18 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 04:59:33 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 05:00:39 pm
Oh, you've played mafia before?
That's a little bit of a stretch, but yea. It was a 3-player game that lasted 2 days and had 0 lynchings.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 05:03:25 pm
If it is possible I would like to vote in favour of skipping lynchingHow about we vote Hector? I think that Hector is a reasonable choice since Max is going to inspect me tonight.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 05:05:05 pm
I would genuinely rather that than no lynch.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 05:05:15 pm
You're right, let's vote hector13.If it is possible I would like to vote in favour of skipping lynchingHow about we vote Hector? I think that Hector is a reasonable choice since Max is going to inspect me tonight.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 05:09:00 pm
I think Elephant Parade has provided a lot in case of their death as well.
By engaging with the game then even in your death you can be helpful to town.
Unless of course...you're mafia and your death has a much greater weight to your team, besides the fact your actions could be revealing under this new light.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 05:09:08 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 05:13:54 pm
Max too, but Max tends to keep his cards close to his chest. Probably something we shouldn’t let him get away with but… I’m not convinced he’s bad atm.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 05:16:33 pm
Sorry for missing this, I'm fairly new to this(the last mafia variant game I played years ago) so I haven't gotten much to say. While I do know that people who don't talk are fairly suspicious but I'm not very good at joining or maintaining conversations.
People have already gotten on Tric's case for not posting, so I'll ask Crystallizedmire: why haven't you had more to say? You know that if you don't post, it's really hard for anyone to get a read on you, right? Do you still think Hector is suspicious?
And yes, I still think that hector is a little suspicious.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 05:19:17 pm
Why am I suspicious? You won’t get anybody to go along with you if you can’t justify it.
Do you think there’s anyone you can trust right now?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 05:19:31 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on August 17, 2023, 05:24:51 pm
It is possible for people to vote to shorten the day, but that requires a majority of players voting for it to happen.
Also, as a forum convention, if you find someone vote worthy but don't want to move your vote, you can put their name in blue to show your suspicions.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 05:26:56 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 05:29:15 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 05:32:44 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 05:37:58 pm
This is a good start.Honestly, it's probably because of my first impression of you. You start the game by voting against Elephant Parade before anybody has posted so naturally you're a bit suspicious.
Why am I suspicious? You won’t get anybody to go along with you if you can’t justify it.
Do you think there’s anyone you can trust right now?
I don't think I trust anyone all that much.
Do you find him more or less suspicious than you did at the time of his first post? Why?I do find hector less suspicious than starting out since I'm starting to think this is what he does every game(I haven't seen nor read any mafia games he's played in so far) but I still find him quite suspicious.
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 05:39:39 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 05:40:32 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 05:42:35 pm
If I’m not the most suspicious person, who is?What I meant to say was that you're a lot less suspicious now than before and I'm changing my vote blue because of that. I didn't mean to imply I find someone else more suspicious.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 05:47:06 pm
I do find hector less suspicious than starting out since I'm starting to think this is what he does every game(I haven't seen nor read any mafia games he's played in so far) but I still find him quite suspicious.Voting in the first post is what nearly everyone does every game, including this one. You said you've read some other games on this forum, right?
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 05:49:17 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 05:53:05 pm
I said I have played a mafia variant outside of this forum but I barely remember what happens in them. I'm still suspicious of hector though.I do find hector less suspicious than starting out since I'm starting to think this is what he does every game(I haven't seen nor read any mafia games he's played in so far) but I still find him quite suspicious.Voting in the first post is what nearly everyone does every game, including this one. You said you've read some other games on this forum, right?
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 05:55:00 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 06:00:21 pm
I get that, and my bad for misremembering what you'd said, but my question stands: have you read any past Bay12 Mafia games?Nope!
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 06:03:35 pm
I posted out a bit too late apparently. Or just didn't bold it~Yeah, although, with my limited understanding of the terminology and the way stuff actually works, I don't know how much that helped. Frankly, as the core of this game is reasoning, I don't know how much that could help.I didn't say it would help, I said it might save your life, because you can flatter the more experienced players by talking up their past exploits so they don't want to kill you. :P
No, in all seriousness, there are two parts to this. One is that it will genuinely help you figure out what the other players are like by seeing how they have acted in other circumstances. The other side, though, is given away if you look closely at what I said: I addressed the players I don't know very well, specifically. That's because I want to see your reactions. And everyone else's, too. I'm a banterer. I just want to chat because it lets me read your mind.You, me, Max, and EP have all jumped on Snowkiller for guidance.Just as a point of order, I don't remember saying anything to him specifically.
I'm going to need to hear more from TricMagic today. Yeah, I know, a pressure vote from me, sign of the apocalypse, but I think it actually works on him?
Tric, how do you like your role? I don't want to hear any details, I know you want to save those for a dramatic reveal, I just want to know if you like it.
In any case, have a no energy post as I sit here and watch you squabble. Goes to play Atelier Ryza 3.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 06:07:34 pm
Okay, good to know. I still find your playstyle incomprehensible to the point of suspicion, though. It seems strange to me to vote someone Hector immediately in response to him voting me immediately, then switch to No Lynch with no reason provided, then switch again to Hector as soon as someone else does, then unvote when pressured... That feels more like scum play than town play, even coming from a rank beginner.I get that, and my bad for misremembering what you'd said, but my question stands: have you read any past Bay12 Mafia games?Nope!
TricMagic, it would be really nice if you actually played the game, seeing as you signed up for it.
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 06:10:58 pm
More seriously, I'm in favor of a death, even if it's my death. The only reason not to lynch is if your role is better off with people alive. Which either paints you as mafia denying town info, or town with an investigative role. Or Cult, Cult is good too.You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette, man. Eliminated townies still win with the rest of us, so you can’t be worrying about hitting them with an elimination.
It's more about our collective ability to win rather than innocent individuals dying. Every lynched townie is one less vote for the mafia and, once again, possibly one less special role working its night shift!
We've also got 11 people, so it's -2 per Day/Night cycle. 3 days of hitting town, 4 if one death if protected against. 5 if Mafia gets hit. Not Lynching puts us at a disadvantage numerically.
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 06:15:22 pm
Hmm.. Normally it's Unvote to remove your vote. On a scale of 0-10, how much do you turst me Crystalizedmire?This is a good start.Honestly, it's probably because of my first impression of you. You start the game by voting against Elephant Parade before anybody has posted so naturally you're a bit suspicious.
Why am I suspicious? You won’t get anybody to go along with you if you can’t justify it.
Do you think there’s anyone you can trust right now?
I don't think I trust anyone all that much.Do you find him more or less suspicious than you did at the time of his first post? Why?I do find hector less suspicious than starting out since I'm starting to think this is what he does every game(I haven't seen nor read any mafia games he's played in so far) but I still find him quite suspicious.
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 06:16:36 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 06:17:31 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 06:19:55 pm
I absolutely do not trust you at all TricMagicHmm.. Normally it's Unvote to remove your vote. On a scale of 0-10, how much do you turst me Crystalizedmire?This is a good start.Honestly, it's probably because of my first impression of you. You start the game by voting against Elephant Parade before anybody has posted so naturally you're a bit suspicious.
Why am I suspicious? You won’t get anybody to go along with you if you can’t justify it.
Do you think there’s anyone you can trust right now?
I don't think I trust anyone all that much.Do you find him more or less suspicious than you did at the time of his first post? Why?I do find hector less suspicious than starting out since I'm starting to think this is what he does every game(I haven't seen nor read any mafia games he's played in so far) but I still find him quite suspicious.
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 06:22:42 pm
Remember to say why so we can lynch him.
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 06:26:22 pm
Uh… we only have 9 players Tric.I've apparently misremembered cause I signed up because we would have 11 people.
Take a day off everything then. Not as great, but less chance of 3 mafia anyway. (I was assuming 2.)
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 06:29:40 pm
Using your first two posts to (1) address a systems argument from two pages ago that other people have already gone over and (2) ask an RVS-level question of someone already under heavy grilling is a really bad look, TricMagic.Ya know, you can vote me in red, there are no hammers. Go ahead. See what happens.
This one is much better. A willingness to vote and use your power as town is a good sign. Elephant Parade, you're too passive. Your response is waffling on the fence looking to follow the lead of others. Not a good look. (Also, I completely skipped RVS, I might not have posted but I have read this game, as a quote from pages ago can atest.)I absolutely do not trust you at all TricMagicHmm.. Normally it's Unvote to remove your vote. On a scale of 0-10, how much do you turst me Crystalizedmire?This is a good start.Honestly, it's probably because of my first impression of you. You start the game by voting against Elephant Parade before anybody has posted so naturally you're a bit suspicious.
Why am I suspicious? You won’t get anybody to go along with you if you can’t justify it.
Do you think there’s anyone you can trust right now?
I don't think I trust anyone all that much.Do you find him more or less suspicious than you did at the time of his first post? Why?I do find hector less suspicious than starting out since I'm starting to think this is what he does every game(I haven't seen nor read any mafia games he's played in so far) but I still find him quite suspicious.
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 06:33:30 pm
Psst.I very much doubt that he is a new player since Toonyman played with TricMagic recently. Another reason is this:
Remember to say why so we can lynch him.
(1) address a systems argument from two pages ago that other people have already gone overAlso, he voted against me even though I already admitted I have (1) very little experience with this genre of game and (2) hadn't read any of the mafia games on this forum(I'll get to it later)
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 06:40:41 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 06:44:23 pm
Ya know, you can vote me in red, there are no hammers. Go ahead. See what happens.I could've voted you, yes! However, I chose not to. Why? Can you solve this mystery? The answer may lie on Page 7... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494871#msg8494871) Choosing not to shift my vote away from a player who hasn't been on to answer my question doesn't constitute passive play.
This one is much better. A willingness to vote and use your power as town is a good sign. Elephant Parade, you're too passive. Your response is waffling on the fence looking to follow the lead of others. Not a good look. (Also, I completely skipped RVS, I might not have posted but I have read this game, as a quote from pages ago can atest.)
Skipping RVS doesn't give you license to conduct your own personal RVS a day before the deadline, nor does it make your choice of target any less strange to me. Let me put it to you straight: what was the purpose of that vote and question?
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 06:49:59 pm
Wait, is this usual behaviour from TricMagic or is he trying to get killed on purpose?
I mean yeah but Tric is a weird player. His meta is thus: if you think he’s scum he’s probably town, and if you think he’s town he’s probably scum.
He has been the least active player so far though, so keep going. Good learning experience in pushing someone.
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 06:55:07 pm
Yeah, that post isn't a good one. It's too suspisous. Why are you trying to draw away fire? You should be inflaming, digging into the heart of a poster to determine their alignment. Not this passive-deflective act.
To asnwer Crystalize's question, I got more out of that one vote than a page of RVS stuff. Maybe pages. How you react can say a lot about your alignment, and you were snappy about your response and fiery. Drawing attention to myself is a tactic I make use of in games. It causes people to talk, and helps me gather information. It also proves that I don't have a partner defending me, which is a usual rebuttal. If you wish to lynch me, find out who I'm partnered with.
I'll admit, this style is also rather like my Cult-style. (Be the Dragon.) I openly admitted to being a murderer, and Nakeen's clock which killed everybody bounced back and killed him, leaving me the final victor at the last second. My current role can be said to have a similar purpose.
Nin.
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 06:55:39 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 06:56:54 pm
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 06:59:38 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 07:04:12 pm
Honestly don't quite trust you Hector, call it a feeling from reading the game so far.
Fite meh >:(
You make a point though: if CrystallizedMire is scum, who are they partnered with?
Would it shock you to know that at this point I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and move to someone else?
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 07:05:11 pm
Tilts head.What do you think is my alignment, then?
To asnwer Crystalize's question, I got more out of that one vote than a page of RVS stuff. Maybe pages. How you react can say a lot about your alignment, and you were snappy about your response and fiery.
Nin.
Post by: TricMagic on August 17, 2023, 07:07:25 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 17, 2023, 07:12:00 pm
As noted in the post I voted the Elephant, probably town with the response you gave. It's too inflammatory to be a scum answer. they like to coordinate in their chat. I've no clue why hector made that last post, they should have been able to guess that?I have a hypothesis as to why:
Scums are thought to be more inflammatory because they have more to lose than townies since they have lower numbers.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 07:22:28 pm
Also Max, who will you be voting for once you’ve heard from Tric? Is Tric’s response going to have enough of an impact that you’re going to change your mind?Hnnnnng. Unexpectedly, sort of.
Tric, you better plan on cleaning up all these barrels of town you've spilled all over.
Elephant Parade, when I was last in the thread, I thought you were noobtown and cryre was noobmafia. Can you pinpoint the moment this changed?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 07:37:55 pm
Possibly this?Also Max, who will you be voting for once you’ve heard from Tric? Is Tric’s response going to have enough of an impact that you’re going to change your mind?Hnnnnng. Unexpectedly, sort of.
Tric, you better plan on cleaning up all these barrels of town you've spilled all over.
Elephant Parade, when I was last in the thread, I thought you were noobtown and cryre was noobmafia. Can you pinpoint the moment this changed?
OK, I've read your post over twice and I still don't understand what you're talking about. I'll let you know if I figure it out.I recognize that we'd have had more information if I'd actually replied, but I didn't feel like engaging with Tric when he couldn't even be bothered to answer my question.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 07:49:28 pm
As noted in the post I voted the Elephant, probably town with the response you gave. It's too inflammatory to be a scum answer. they like to coordinate in their chat. I've no clue why hector made that last post, they should have been able to guess that?
I tend to gloss over your posts. The way you format them is… I don’t know if you’re familiar with the term “border gore” in games like Crusader Kings, but that.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 07:53:04 pm
I tend to gloss over your posts. The way you format them is… I don’t know if you’re familiar with the term “border gore” in games like Crusader Kings, but that.I never got what problem people have with border gore. Have you SEEN the real-life HRE?
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 08:03:47 pm
I’ve never had to look at maps of it while I’m trying to figure out how to make everyone in my family Beautiful Genius Herculean Fecund super-beings!I tend to gloss over your posts. The way you format them is… I don’t know if you’re familiar with the term “border gore” in games like Crusader Kings, but that.I never got what problem people have with border gore. Have you SEEN the real-life HRE?
I’ve genuinely gone to war in those games just to make the map more palatable.
Eh, I want more from sofanthiel and Snowkiller. They’ve got a bit under 24 hours to pick someone to eliminate, I will not accept no lynch as an answer.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 17, 2023, 08:16:12 pm
I was about to make a Stronghold: Crusader reference until I re-read your post and saw you mentioned Crusader Kings. A game I have played that I think is interesting, but am too smoothbrain to fully sink into. All the Paradox games are like that for me. Sid Meier on the other hand? Civilization all day. Those games tend to be slow as all get-out, but I love me some Civilization.As noted in the post I voted the Elephant, probably town with the response you gave. It's too inflammatory to be a scum answer. they like to coordinate in their chat. I've no clue why hector made that last post, they should have been able to guess that?
I tend to gloss over your posts. The way you format them is… I don’t know if you’re familiar with the term “border gore” in games like Crusader Kings, but that.
Good News: I'm inching closer to the idea of a D1 lynch, based on what others have said about needing to kill SOMEONE so that we don't have an eternal lynch-freeze and lose the game.
Bad News: I don't know enough about anyone in this game to point the finger at. So I'm still in no-lynch mode. At this rate, I might get lynched by everyone else just to move this along.
So, this may sound like a smoothbrain take, but I have a tendency to overthink and complicate things. Work in progress. What helps me realign and get back on target is revisiting the basics.
1) Mafia is about social deduction/interaction/deception.
2) There are two sides; mafia and town.
3) One is an informed minority, the other an uninformed majority.
4) The goal for both sides is to eliminate every member of the opposing faction. (Yes, yes--neutral/third party factions exist but I'm keeping it simple.)
5) The "meta" is for everyone to maintain a town identity.
The fifth point is important, because it reminds me that everyone will lie about being town, unless they're aiming for some kind of Xanatos Gambit (see TVTropes.org for definition). This means, no one will come out and say they're mafia, which means I only have their words to go off of. The problem here is that I have not seen anyone say anything that might betray their allegiance. It's been pot shots back and forth between veterans, with plenty of inside jokes and such to add that fuel. Player X might always do "this thing" in mafia games, and they might have done "this thing" in a previous game as mafia. But we're in a new game. They might not be mafia this time, can ya dig it? I'm afraid I'm no L, Light or Lelouch. I don't think I've even seen anything mildly suspicious yet. The only player who comes remotely close is TricMagic, and even then I admit it could be a gambit play. It could be his Lelouch/Geass move, and I'm personally getting a kick out of his fall-on-my-sword-for-the-good-of-the-colony antics, if only to keep the game moving at a steady pace. I want him to stick around just for my own amusement. Every game needs a Joker.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 08:24:41 pm
Anyway, generally speaking, in my experience, scum want to keep the game in a low information state so people don’t have enough to go on to draw (the correct) conclusions.
Town want to get as much information out as possible to be able to make the right decisions.
It gets more complicated than that but that’s basically what the game is.
Is there anybody you think is trying to keep the game in a low information state?
How about someone trying to get information into the world?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 08:36:39 pm
Lord have mercy. You all chat something fierce. I turn away for an hour or two and come back to novels. Are all mafia games this conversational?too many wordsI was about to make a Stronghold: Crusader reference until I re-read your post and saw you mentioned Crusader Kings. A game I have played that I think is interesting, but am too smoothbrain to fully sink into. All the Paradox games are like that for me. Sid Meier on the other hand? Civilization all day. Those games tend to be slow as all get-out, but I love me some Civilization.As noted in the post I voted the Elephant, probably town with the response you gave. It's too inflammatory to be a scum answer. they like to coordinate in their chat. I've no clue why hector made that last post, they should have been able to guess that?
I tend to gloss over your posts. The way you format them is… I don’t know if you’re familiar with the term “border gore” in games like Crusader Kings, but that.
Good News: I'm inching closer to the idea of a D1 lynch, based on what others have said about needing to kill SOMEONE so that we don't have an eternal lynch-freeze and lose the game.
Bad News: I don't know enough about anyone in this game to point the finger at. So I'm still in no-lynch mode. At this rate, I might get lynched by everyone else just to move this along.
So, this may sound like a smoothbrain take, but I have a tendency to overthink and complicate things. Work in progress. What helps me realign and get back on target is revisiting the basics.
1) Mafia is about social deduction/interaction/deception.
2) There are two sides; mafia and town.
3) One is an informed minority, the other an uninformed majority.
4) The goal for both sides is to eliminate every member of the opposing faction. (Yes, yes--neutral/third party factions exist but I'm keeping it simple.)
5) The "meta" is for everyone to maintain a town identity.
The fifth point is important, because it reminds me that everyone will lie about being town, unless they're aiming for some kind of Xanatos Gambit (see TVTropes.org for definition). This means, no one will come out and say they're mafia, which means I only have their words to go off of. The problem here is that I have not seen anyone say anything that might betray their allegiance. It's been pot shots back and forth between veterans, with plenty of inside jokes and such to add that fuel. Player X might always do "this thing" in mafia games, and they might have done "this thing" in a previous game as mafia. But we're in a new game. They might not be mafia this time, can ya dig it? I'm afraid I'm no L, Light or Lelouch. I don't think I've even seen anything mildly suspicious yet. The only player who comes remotely close is TricMagic, and even then I admit it could be a gambit play. It could be his Lelouch/Geass move, and I'm personally getting a kick out of his fall-on-my-sword-for-the-good-of-the-colony antics, if only to keep the game moving at a steady pace. I want him to stick around just for my own amusement. Every game needs a Joker.
not enough hats
if me desire hats, then me lynch Snowkiller
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 08:40:30 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 08:50:51 pm
Tric, you better plan on cleaning up all these barrels of town you've spilled all over.I know right?
I can confidently say Tric is at least 90% town.
Do not dare channel your inner TricMagic. One is hard enough to parse.Max is copying my schtick. Which was me exaggerating Tric's obsessions with hats in Hat Mafia.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 08:55:08 pm
Eh, I want more from sofanthiel and Snowkiller. They’ve got a bit under 24 hours to pick someone to eliminate, I will not accept no lynch as an answer.I don't really think it's either.
Currently I am happy with Hector or Elephant Parade's demise since one of them is mafia.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 08:59:32 pm
Hmph. Honestly that's more common than you think. Which reduces my chances of being lynched since that's apparently a towntell of mine. Seem to have a knack for it even as Cult or SK.I've read a few of your games and this seems off-the-wall even by your standards.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 09:01:22 pm
Eh, I want more from sofanthiel and Snowkiller. They’ve got a bit under 24 hours to pick someone to eliminate, I will not accept no lynch as an answer.I don't really think it's either.
Currently I am happy with Hector or Elephant Parade's demise since one of them is mafia.
I’m disinclined to believe it’s EP so… come and ‘ave a go if you think yer ‘ard enough.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 09:02:02 pm
Crystal seems funny but I'm on the fence about it.
I would like Caz's thoughts on Max.
Max is seeing the same things I'm seeing by unvoting Tric and voting Elephant. Although this means Max has faith in Hector, or at least, more faith in Hector than Elephant.
PPE:
That's interesting, since Hector is low on my suspect list (though their shift into BM IC Mode bumped them up a bit). Care to explain your reasoning? I assume the answer is no or you already would have, but I'm asking anyway.I don't have any strong reasoning, unless Max has a better one.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 17, 2023, 09:02:10 pm
The sub-forum is weird. We can have a day like yesterday in which we get 2 pages of stuff in 24 hours and then days like today when it gets lots of stuff going. Day end is usually busy too.Is that so? It is a shame, then, that upon death, a player is regaled to spectate and further participation in-thread is forbidden. I'm beginning to enjoy the banter. Not doing it myself, mind you. But reading the banter of others.
Anyway, generally speaking, in my experience, scum want to keep the game in a low information state so people don’t have enough to go on to draw (the correct) conclusions.
Town want to get as much information out as possible to be able to make the right decisions.
It gets more complicated than that but that’s basically what the game is.
Is there anybody you think is trying to keep the game in a low information state?
How about someone trying to get information into the world?
To answer your question: no. I could maybe go for Maximum Spin, since he seems to be memeing (thus off-tracking the game, which would result in more town hold-ups, and longer mafia lifespan). That's not enough to sentence anyone, of course, but I do believe I have my first suspicious gaze to cast at another player. Well done, Mr. Spin. Well done.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 17, 2023, 09:02:48 pm
You're Lominsan now?Eh, I want more from sofanthiel and Snowkiller. They’ve got a bit under 24 hours to pick someone to eliminate, I will not accept no lynch as an answer.I don't really think it's either.
Currently I am happy with Hector or Elephant Parade's demise since one of them is mafia.
I’m disinclined to believe it’s EP so… come and ‘ave a go if you think yer ‘ard enough.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 09:03:40 pm
I want more from sofanthiel and Snowkiller. They’ve got a bit under 24 hours to pick someone to eliminate, I will not accept no lynch as an answer.
I'm sorry, hector. I’m afraid I can’t do that.
It's been pot shots back and forth between veterans, with plenty of inside jokes and such to add that fuel.
It's nigh impossible to make a decision because the professionals' reasoning is on a different level than ours (or, at least, mine). Most of the things they've pointed out are meta-behavioral observations combined with a pre-existing understanding of mafia game trends, which are sometimes contradictory! See the example below:
Yeah and we can also find out who wants to throw newbies under the bus. Guess who does that?
‘Cause another thing scum do with newbies is offer advice. It makes them look active and helpful, while actually being neither.
In conclusion, the veterans may actually have it all figured out already, but the provided rationale isn't always a priori. I'll just stick to relying on Max's mind-reading abilities for now!
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 09:06:36 pm
I'm not sure how you got from "one of these two people is mafia" to "I don't have any strong reasoning" in the span of two posts, but OK. Give me your weak reasoning.That's interesting, since Hector is low on my suspect list (though their shift into BM IC Mode bumped them up a bit). Care to explain your reasoning? I assume the answer is no or you already would have, but I'm asking anyway.I don't have any strong reasoning, unless Max has a better one.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 09:07:21 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 09:12:05 pm
To answer your question: no. I could maybe go for Maximum Spin, since he seems to be memeing (thus off-tracking the game, which would result in more town hold-ups, and longer mafia lifespan). That's not enough to sentence anyone, of course, but I do believe I have my first suspicious gaze to cast at another player. Well done, Mr. Spin. Well done.I'm surprised Max is memeing to be honest.
I think suspecting Tric is incorrect.I'm not sure how you got from "one of these two people is mafia" to "I don't have any strong reasoning" in the span of two posts, but OK. Give me your weak reasoning.That's interesting, since Hector is low on my suspect list (though their shift into BM IC Mode bumped them up a bit). Care to explain your reasoning? I assume the answer is no or you already would have, but I'm asking anyway.I don't have any strong reasoning, unless Max has a better one.
I think Hector suspecting sofanthiel is incorrect.
They could be (possibly) wrong on purpose because they're mafia.
I find it interesting that neither you or Hector suspect each other that much.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 09:15:34 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 09:20:49 pm
PPE:
So because we both have an incorrect read and don't scumread each other, the set of [Elephant Parade, Hector] must include exactly one mafioso? I don't follow. Or was that just a spicy way of saying we were your top two scumreads?Yes it was a spicy way to say my top two scumreads.
Neither of you suspecting the other that much makes me less confident though since that possibly means you're both town or both mafia, and I don't really think you're both mafia.
I'm not convinced on voting sofanthiel or Tric here.
I would be willing to vote Crystal, Caz, or Max though if I can come around on it, in that order.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 09:24:38 pm
Coincidentally, that’s why I moved away from Crystallizedmire.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 09:25:13 pm
To answer your question: no. I could maybe go for Maximum Spin, since he seems to be memeing (thus off-tracking the game, which would result in more town hold-ups, and longer mafia lifespan). That's not enough to sentence anyone, of course, but I do believe I have my first suspicious gaze to cast at another player. Well done, Mr. Spin. Well done.VOTE
OR
RECEIVE
HAT
(the hat kills you)
It's nigh impossible to make a decision because the professionals' reasoning is on a different level than ours (or, at least, mine). Most of the things they've pointed out are meta-behavioral observations combined with a pre-existing understanding of mafia game trends, which are sometimes contradictory! See the example below:Honestly, both of those claims are dumb. Mafia do what they want, which can be anything at any time from day to day. My mind-reading abilities, on the other hand, will never steer you wrong.Yeah and we can also find out who wants to throw newbies under the bus. Guess who does that?‘Cause another thing scum do with newbies is offer advice. It makes them look active and helpful, while actually being neither.
In conclusion, the veterans may actually have it all figured out already, but the provided rationale isn't always a priori. I'll just stick to relying on Max's mind-reading abilities for now!
So you should follow me and vote.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 09:28:29 pm
My vote is on sofanthiel/Snowkiller because they are stubbornly refusing to participate, though I accept they’re new and are uncertain. I don’t necessarily suspect them, but I want them to push people, even if it’s ineffectually.
Coincidentally, that’s why I moved away from Crystallizedmire.
Like… I’ve asked the same question four or five different times and they keep making excuses and talking about statistics and various things like that.
Would you want either (or both!) of them at M/LYLO, Toony?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 09:34:38 pm
I'm surprised Max is memeing to be honest.I wasn't really trying to meme, anyway. I just wanted to signal "shut up, stop rambling about the detailed history of the toilet and its itemized cleaning regimen, and flush it already".
I forget that not everyone has the awe-inspiring planetbrain to understand what I'm getting at at all times.
This is why I have more faith in hector than in Mammoth Motorcade, by the way. If you were wondering.My vote is on sofanthiel/Snowkiller because they are stubbornly refusing to participate, though I accept they’re new and are uncertain. I don’t necessarily suspect them, but I want them to push people, even if it’s ineffectually.
Coincidentally, that’s why I moved away from Crystallizedmire.
Like… I’ve asked the same question four or five different times and they keep making excuses and talking about statistics and various things like that.
Would you want either (or both!) of them at M/LYLO, Toony?
Post by: Mephansteras on August 17, 2023, 10:06:04 pm
Caz: 1: Elephant Parade
Elephant Parade: 1: TricMagic
Hector13: 1: ToonyMan
Snowkiller: 1: Maximum Spin
sofanthiel: 1: Hector13
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
TricMagic: 1: Crystalizedmire
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 10:07:08 pm
shut up, stop rambling about the detailed history of the toilet and its itemized cleaning regimen, and flush it already
But it's so... infatuating...
I think the real reason we don't want to vote is because it seems 2 sides are starting to form, and neither Snow nor I wish to be responsible for taking the wrong one and having to bear the consequences 'til death. Either way, everyone is beginning to grow frustrated with our deliberation, so, after some thought, I think I'll go with Caz (no hard feelings!).
My reasoning is that I found the following argument compelling:
Caz, you've spent practically all of your time calling out obviously bad posts for being obviously bad, which is a niche scum can fill as easily as town. What's something running through your head that I, or anyone, might actually disagree with?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 10:14:28 pm
I think the real reason we don't want to vote is because it seems 2 sides are starting to form,Every voting player was voting for someone different. You're now the only one who has firmly taken someone else's side!
But whatever, it's good enough for now.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 17, 2023, 10:26:20 pm
Every voting player was voting for someone different. You're now the only one who has firmly taken someone else's side!
Now that I look at it, you're right, but wasn't there a hector & EP vs. sofanthiel & Snow dynamic being established? At least that's the impression I got from the last few pages.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 10:32:37 pm
My reasoning is that I found the following argument compelling:Well, do you have anything to add to it?Caz, you've spent practically all of your time calling out obviously bad posts for being obviously bad, which is a niche scum can fill as easily as town. What's something running through your head that I, or anyone, might actually disagree with?
As it happens, Caz is still my #1 suspect—she posted a lot but never sought sustained engagement with one person or issue, nor did her sniping-type attacks demand it from others; I find that more suspicious than mere lurking. Unfortunately, she hasn't been online since I made that post, so I don't have much to go off of.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 17, 2023, 10:53:01 pm
I'll vote Hector here since Tric townreading (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494961#msg8494961) Crystal's vote on them and voting Elephant makes me less inclined to vote Elephant. I don't really want to vote a player Tric is voting for...various reasons.Gotcha; your talk of solving the game earlier had me unsure. Before this exchange, you were a complete null for me; I feel a bit better about you now that you aren't playing Mysterious Detective T.
PPE:So because we both have an incorrect read and don't scumread each other, the set of [Elephant Parade, Hector] must include exactly one mafioso? I don't follow. Or was that just a spicy way of saying we were your top two scumreads?Yes it was a spicy way to say my top two scumreads.
Neither of you suspecting the other that much makes me less confident though since that possibly means you're both town or both mafia, and I don't really think you're both mafia.
I'm not convinced on voting sofanthiel or Tric here.
I would be willing to vote Crystal, Caz, or Max though if I can come around on it, in that order.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 11:12:29 pm
It doesn't matter whether I want them at lylo.My vote is on sofanthiel/Snowkiller because they are stubbornly refusing to participate, though I accept they’re new and are uncertain. I don’t necessarily suspect them, but I want them to push people, even if it’s ineffectually.Like… I’ve asked the same question four or five different times and they keep making excuses and talking about statistics and various things like that.
Coincidentally, that’s why I moved away from Crystallizedmire.
Would you want either (or both!) of them at M/LYLO, Toony?
What matters is whether they're mafia or not. Is there some other reason I'm not thinking of?
Post by: ToonyMan on August 17, 2023, 11:22:12 pm
This is why I have more faith in hector than in Mammoth Motorcade, by the way. If you were wondering.I have to accept that town!Hector is voting players he doesn't really suspect, but is voting so they play better.
Which I don't know if I want to do that.
I mean, I don't really like Elephant's vote here. I think it's picking Caz out as a target when I don't think their intent when voting me was malicious. I think if Caz was serious about their vote on me they're really likely town since it's so forceful for them.shut up, stop rambling about the detailed history of the toilet and its itemized cleaning regimen, and flush it already
But it's so... infatuating...
I think the real reason we don't want to vote is because it seems 2 sides are starting to form, and neither Snow nor I wish to be responsible for taking the wrong one and having to bear the consequences 'til death. Either way, everyone is beginning to grow frustrated with our deliberation, so, after some thought, I think I'll go with Caz (no hard feelings!).
My reasoning is that I found the following argument compelling:Caz, you've spent practically all of your time calling out obviously bad posts for being obviously bad, which is a niche scum can fill as easily as town. What's something running through your head that I, or anyone, might actually disagree with?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 17, 2023, 11:27:18 pm
I have to accept that town!Hector is voting players he doesn't really suspect, but is voting so they play better.That's not really how I interpreted it. I thought of it as town!Hector voting players he isn't committed to strongly suspecting, but still suspects, because making excuses and talking about statistics is a traditional way to avoid scumhunting.
Which I don't know if I want to do that.
Certainly, I'm voting someone I really suspect (and it's one of the same ones), if perhaps not the player I suspect most. Which I still haven't really narrowed down beyond two options yet anyway.
Post by: hector13 on August 17, 2023, 11:30:48 pm
It doesn't matter whether I want them at lylo.My vote is on sofanthiel/Snowkiller because they are stubbornly refusing to participate, though I accept they’re new and are uncertain. I don’t necessarily suspect them, but I want them to push people, even if it’s ineffectually.Like… I’ve asked the same question four or five different times and they keep making excuses and talking about statistics and various things like that.
Coincidentally, that’s why I moved away from Crystallizedmire.
Would you want either (or both!) of them at M/LYLO, Toony?
What matters is whether they're mafia or not. Is there some other reason I'm not thinking of?
That’s the point: they haven’t taken part enough (for my liking) to figure that out, hence the vote/FoS. I’ve given them plenty of opportunity while I was pushing on crystallizedmire, for really basic stuff to be honest, but nothing yet.
This is why I ask about LYLO. If they’re not making the effort now when it’s the least problematic for them to make mistakes, and really the easiest point to get involved in the day game, they’re not going to do it when the chips are down.
All I want is a little effort, ‘cause it’s not that hard.
PPE: my philosophy on voting - at least this long before day end, and certainly on D1 - is basically putting pressure on people I suspect and forcing them to do something to make me move it.
Crystallizedmire managed it, as an example of this in action.
PPE2: Max seems to get it.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 02:18:18 am
Fine. I understand the logic.
@Hector:
I'd rather have sofanthiel and Snowkiller over Caz, because I can be more confident they'd at least post during lylo, but I'm not voting Caz over a reason like that. I don't see you highlighting Caz the same way as sofan/Snow/Crystal either.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 02:34:01 am
T’be fair though, Caz was putting in some effort early doors so got a pass for a bit, particularly re: my poor reasoning for going after EP. Contrast with the trio you bring up not really doing anything despite my, and others, prodding. Inexperience does not preclude effort.
Regardless, I’m not sure if she’s just busy right now and thus can’t post, but there’s a lot happened since her last post. Let’s see where her next post(s) take us.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 02:38:39 am
What if Hector is on the right track? That would mean Elephant is probably town and mafia are...somewhere? It's not a clear image.
What if Max is on the right track? This puts mafia likely as Elephant and someone else. This feels believable, but involves trusting Max.
How do I feel about everyone else?
Tric seems really town.
Sofanthiel seems really town.
Snowkiller seems town.
Crystalizedmire is mixed.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 02:42:35 am
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 03:00:05 am
I’m not sure why you think sofanthiel and Snowkiller get a pass while crystallizedmire doesn’t?I rate sofanthiel the highest here. I like them joining Snowkiller's "me no lynch" and especially them saying they're pretty sure they're Elephant's partner. Like who says that? They've done this while also engaging with the game heavily. If it's an act they're fooling me.
Snowkiller I think is posting in a way that shows they are alone as well. However, they have not engaged as much as sofanthiel so I have them lower.
Example: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494670#msg8494670
I like this post.
I did not like Crystalizedmire's side comments and random irrelevant observations at the start of this game. I think they have gotten better since then, hence mixed. I also don't like them voting Caz. I find them a little suspicious over the other two.
Example: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494674#msg8494674
I don't like this.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 03:10:18 am
Crystal voted Tric which I think is also bad so that's probably why.
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2023, 03:53:59 am
Hmmm, Tric saying something subtly revealing about his role? Probably a good sign he's town?
If it's supposed to be subtle why point it out to everyone if you are town -.-
@Caz:
So much spunk. So much energy.
How do you feel about Max?
I don't know why they're buddying up to Hector, annoyingly both of them seem to read similarly atm. They both seem like they are trying to help newer players, but that’s never indicator of alignment, and sometimes can be scum trying to get influence over the discussion.
It's not an unsound argument, and if you genuinely have no clue, it can indeed be safer to wait for the mafia to give us a hint in the form of a dead body. On the other hand, they could just no-kill and leave you in D1 Again, the D1ening. Still, if I really felt that I had no clue, I'd agree with you. But do you really think you have no clue?
Yeah no you know this is wrong.
@Max and Hector:
I don't really trust either of you. I think it's totally possible you would do this recent banter just now as both mafia.
What do you think the chances are of Max and Hector being scum 2 games in a row?
Elephant Parade and Caz seem to be trying. I'm more on the fence with them because I can see them faking this.
I can't tell if Caz is serious about ending RVS to vote me. If they're serious I think they're absolutely town.
I’m not serious. What now?
Snowkiller and sofanthiel want to no-lynch, on D1, in a 9 player game. I think they're both town.
Being dumb doesn’t make you town, neither does being new. I’m guessing you’re thinking that if they were scum, one of the scum would at least be experienced enough to tell them it is a bad idea?
But if you knew that already, then… *sips wine*
I am a good lynch because I’ve done a lot, and people this have quite a bit to go on for the future.
I would genuinely rather that than no lynch.
Not me wondering how long before you backstep on the martyr attitude. This is page 9.
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
What's with the nolynching obsession this game. It’s too widespread to be accidental.
Okay, good to know. I still find your playstyle incomprehensible to the point of suspicion, though.
Eh, have you met the Owl?
More seriously, I'm in favor of a death, even if it's my death. The only reason not to lynch is if your role is better off with people alive. Which either paints you as mafia denying town info, or town with an investigative role. Or Cult, Cult is good too.
We've also got 11 people, so it's -2 per Day/Night cycle. 3 days of hitting town, 4 if one death if protected against. 5 if Mafia gets hit. Not Lynching puts us at a disadvantage numerically.
Finally, some sense.
I posted out a bit too late apparently. Or just didn't bold it~
In any case, have a no energy post as I sit here and watch you squabble. Goes to play Atelier Ryza 3.
TricMagic: No effort either shields you from later suspicion or lets scum run the show. Neither reason is town-motivated. But to me, this looks like bait. Slight townread.
Still reading through (start of p12), bear with me.
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2023, 04:55:08 am
I am a good lynch because I’ve done a lot, and people this have quite a bit to go on for the future.
I would genuinely rather that than no lynch.
Not me wondering how long before you backstep on the martyr attitude. What's with this pied piper attitude?
Good News: I'm inching closer to the idea of a D1 lynch, based on what others have said about needing to kill SOMEONE so that we don't have an eternal lynch-freeze and lose the game.
Bad News: I don't know enough about anyone in this game to point the finger at. So I'm still in no-lynch mode. At this rate, I might get lynched by everyone else just to move this along.
This is even worse. You REALISE no lynching is bad, yet you still want to no lynch, yet you want to look good by acting martyr. You're my second pick, SnowKILLER.
Lord have mercy. You all chat something fierce. I turn away for an hour or two and come back to novels. Are all mafia games this conversational?
I've been in games that ran for 40 pages on day one, this ain't nothin.
To answer your question: no. I could maybe go for Maximum Spin, since he seems to be memeing (thus off-tracking the game, which would result in more town hold-ups, and longer mafia lifespan). That's not enough to sentence anyone, of course, but I do believe I have my first suspicious gaze to cast at another player. Well done, Mr. Spin. Well done.VOTE
OR
RECEIVE
HAT
(the hat kills you)It's nigh impossible to make a decision because the professionals' reasoning is on a different level than ours (or, at least, mine). Most of the things they've pointed out are meta-behavioral observations combined with a pre-existing understanding of mafia game trends, which are sometimes contradictory! See the example below:Honestly, both of those claims are dumb. Mafia do what they want, which can be anything at any time from day to day. My mind-reading abilities, on the other hand, will never steer you wrong.Yeah and we can also find out who wants to throw newbies under the bus. Guess who does that?‘Cause another thing scum do with newbies is offer advice. It makes them look active and helpful, while actually being neither.
In conclusion, the veterans may actually have it all figured out already, but the provided rationale isn't always a priori. I'll just stick to relying on Max's mind-reading abilities for now!
So you should follow me and vote.
You look more scummy each post.
Either way, everyone is beginning to grow frustrated with our deliberation, so, after some thought, I think I'll go with Caz (no hard feelings!).
My reasoning is that I found the following argument compelling:Caz, you've spent practically all of your time calling out obviously bad posts for being obviously bad, which is a niche scum can fill as easily as town. What's something running through your head that I, or anyone, might actually disagree with?
So you agree that Toony is scum? Wild.
As it happens, Caz is still my #1 suspect—she posted a lot but never sought sustained engagement with one person or issue, nor did her sniping-type attacks demand it from others; I find that more suspicious than mere lurking. Unfortunately, she hasn't been online since I made that post, so I don't have much to go off of.
Is tunneling day 1 townie behaviour?
That’s ‘cause Caz is Scottish and thus above suspicion.
T’be fair though, Caz was putting in some effort early doors so got a pass for a bit, particularly re: my poor reasoning for going after EP. Contrast with the trio you bring up not really doing anything despite my, and others, prodding. Inexperience does not preclude effort.
Regardless, I’m not sure if she’s just busy right now and thus can’t post, but there’s a lot happened since her last post. Let’s see where her next post(s) take us.
Legitimate. As irritating as their USA timezones can be, it’s always fun to see where the lazy fingers start to point. I’ll be up late tonight, providing the power stays on.
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2023, 04:56:24 am
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 18, 2023, 08:19:13 am
Have you noticed the fact that most if not all the people nolynching are newbies?I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
What's with the nolynching obsession this game. It’s too widespread to be accidental.
Post by: TricMagic on August 18, 2023, 08:40:22 am
While I can certainly say Caz was under the background, that's not inherently scummy, just suspicious.And smelling of elderberries.
An entire night, and nothing of value to poke at. Well, other than Toony not voting Elephant and suspecting Crystalized. (Despite my town read of them. Lot of talk against that, but still shades them from the light of a proper read position on them.)
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2023, 09:41:23 am
This miniature text box is honestly gonna give me an aneurysm. Pied piper comment should be directed towards Maximum Spin.
If you mean the box where you type your response, you can expand it by clicking and dragging down on the bottom of the box.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 09:59:57 am
I don't like how you're answering my questions with questions here, especially given that timezones are likely going to delay an actual answer by several hours. I also don't like how your post is just a wall of quotes with little one-liners attached, though the length of time since your last post partially explains that.Caz, you've spent practically all of your time calling out obviously bad posts for being obviously bad, which is a niche scum can fill as easily as town. What's something running through your head that I, or anyone, might actually disagree with?
So you agree that Toony is scum? Wild.As it happens, Caz is still my #1 suspect—she posted a lot but never sought sustained engagement with one person or issue, nor did her sniping-type attacks demand it from others; I find that more suspicious than mere lurking. Unfortunately, she hasn't been online since I made that post, so I don't have much to go off of.
Is tunneling day 1 townie behaviour?
I don't think Toony is scum, but I do think his opening post was useless (if funny). That's a no-brainer, hence it falling into your larger habit of sniping self-evidently dumb remarks and avoiding sustained engagement. I see how voting him might've led to sustained engagement, which makes me feel a bit better about you, but it hasn't in actuality (up until this moment?) because you've been offline.
It obviously isn't tunneling to post on the same topic for more than two posts in a row. It is scummy, on the other hand, to avoid sustained engagement, which is what gives people reason to think about you and material to analyze when they do.
Not unvoting; this could be entirely a legitimate playstyle difference, especially with the timezone issue, but I'm not convinced it is.
Have we noticed people want to vote someone who isn't controversial? Other than the same pages telling newplayers to actually vote, why the shift to Caz newbies? Day 1 in a lynch that doesn't have any supporting info available to town, so you want to lynch someone who hasn't talked much since the start of the day?I think you mean newbie, singular: I've been voting Caz since yesterday morning, shortly after their previous burst of activity. I don't know why sofanthiel felt the need to add more pressure twelve hours later and I agree that it comes across as lazy; I'm still waiting on their answer to that.
While I can certainly say Caz was under the background, that's not inherently scummy, just suspicious.And smelling of elderberries.
An entire night, and nothing of value to poke at. Well, other than Toony not voting Elephant and suspecting Crystalized. (Despite my town read of them. Lot of talk against that, but still shades them from the light of a proper read position on them.)
It isn't about her voting you specifically; it's about her larger pattern of behavior:(...)I mean, I don't really like Elephant's vote here. I think it's picking Caz out as a target when I don't think their intent when voting me was malicious. I think if Caz was serious about their vote on me they're really likely town since it's so forceful for them.Caz, you've spent practically all of your time calling out obviously bad posts for being obviously bad, which is a niche scum can fill as easily as town. What's something running through your head that I, or anyone, might actually disagree with?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
N.B. I'll be gone 3-4 hours before the lynch and I probably won't be back before it happens.
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2023, 10:21:28 am
I also don't like how your post is just a wall of quotes with little one-liners attached, though the length of time since your last post partially explains that.
Note to self: waste everyone’s time with walls of text to make myself look better.
I don't think Toony is scum, but I do think his opening post was useless (if funny). That's a no-brainer, hence it falling into your larger habit of sniping self-evidently dumb remarks and avoiding sustained engagement. I see how voting him might've led to sustained engagement, which makes me feel a bit better about you, but it hasn't in actuality (up until this moment?) because you've been offline.
It obviously isn't tunneling to post on the same topic for more than two posts in a row. It is scummy, on the other hand, to avoid sustained engagement, which is what gives people reason to think about you and material to analyze when they do.
It’s hard to engage when no one is actually around. I’m not getting suspicious of people that haven’t posted in the last 8hrs. I don’t actually see why you have a problem with my assessments of others posts and asking questions? They’re pretty clear to determine what I think of the player’s comments. If you can’t decipher that, well...
If you mean the box where you type your response, you can expand it by clicking and dragging down on the bottom of the box.
Thanks, my laptop doesn't seem to like it. I'm just cping to word processor. I forget how gibberish long posts can become in mafia.
Toony – voting Crystal is weak. I’m kinda annoyed that he didn’t get annoyed at me voting him though. Scum Toony always seemed… angrier. He’s annoyingly becoming less suspicious, but Toony is a good player, so... ugh. I keep getting the feeling that all this no lynch crap is somehow his doing to stop suspicion on one of the newbies. But why? Surely he doesn’t think it would ever work? I don’t get it.
Sofanthiel – just following along and little actual input at all.
Crystal – the least input of all other than Tric, so hard to read
TricMagic – annoying as Tric is, it seems like TownTric
One of: ToonyMan, Maximum Spin, Hector13, Elephant Parade.
And one of: Snowkiller, Crystalizedmire, sofanthiel, – if the NL mastermind theory is right, it’s one out of these three.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 10:39:29 am
Toony suggesting sofanthiel has been heavily engaged with the game makes… very little sense to me, so I’m alright leaving my vote there for the time being.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 10:40:35 am
What's with the nolynching obsession this game. It’s too widespread to be accidental.
Look, while I did consider day 1 no-lynching to be a legitimate strategy at the beginning, Tric's reply persuaded me:
More seriously, I'm in favor of a death, even if it's my death. The only reason not to lynch is if your role is better off with people alive. Which either paints you as mafia denying town info, or town with an investigative role. Or Cult, Cult is good too.
We've also got 11 people, so it's -2 per Day/Night cycle. 3 days of hitting town, 4 if one death if protected against. 5 if Mafia gets hit. Not Lynching puts us at a disadvantage numerically.
I can't speak for the other newbies, but when one can't control how others read their behavior, especially when very experienced players are present, making no enemies or decisions on day 1 means others are presented with little information to work with to figure out alignment/role. Another thing is that, at least in regular in-person games, the mafia usually tends to target those who suspect them. You would've lynched someone either way; we couldn't have convinced you otherwise, so our voting, given the difficulty of actually reaching a verdict, seemed superfluous. Neutrality didn't strike me as a particularly bad approach for both survival and concealing my identity, although I did give it up after multiple people became agitated.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 10:43:47 am
Quote
I’m not getting suspicious of people that haven’t posted in the last 8hrs.I genuinely don't see why you wouldn't.
Quote
I don’t actually see why you have a problem with my assessments of others posts and asking questions? They’re pretty clear to determine what I think of the player’s comments. If you can’t decipher that, well...It isn't that I can't understand them; it's that I can't see how you expect (most of) them to provoke sustained engagement.
Stop rambling about lynch strategy and answer my question, sofanthiel:
My reasoning is that I found the following argument compelling:Well, do you have anything to add to it?Caz, you've spent practically all of your time calling out obviously bad posts for being obviously bad, which is a niche scum can fill as easily as town. What's something running through your head that I, or anyone, might actually disagree with?
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2023, 10:51:50 am
Caz: 1: sofanthiel
Hector13: 1: ToonyMan
Snowkiller: 1: Maximum Spin
sofanthiel: 2: Elephant Parade, Hector13
ToonyMan: 2: Caz, TricMagic
TricMagic: 1: Crystalizedmire
Day Ends ~5pm Pacific Today (8 hours)
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 18, 2023, 10:56:25 am
Toony – voting Crystal is weak. I’m kinda annoyed that he didn’t get annoyed at me voting him though. Scum Toony always seemed… angrier. He’s annoyingly becoming less suspicious, but Toony is a good player, so... ugh. I keep getting the feeling that all this no lynch crap is somehow his doing to stop suspicion on one of the newbies. But why? Surely he doesn’t think it would ever work? I don’t get it.If Toony is mafia and is trying to direct suspicion away from one of the newbies, either Snowkiller or Sofanthiel is mafia because Toony already said they're suspicious of me and Snowkiller and Sofanthiel are the most vocal about nolynching.
I think Caz is right in her assessment.Hector is right because from my perspective I have been more active than either Sofanthiel or Snowkiller. But Toony is right to doubt me though because of my earlier comments. What I don't get is why I'm more suspicious than Sofanthiel or Snowkiller. Toony also said that if they can get around to it, they would vote me, Caz, or Max in that order. Toony seems to think that I'm somehow more suspicious than any of the other newbies for some reason. So if Toony isn't scum then they're probably trying to act suspiciously on purpose which I doubt. While Tricmagic is still suspicious, I'm starting to think they're more annoying than anything else, and has since claimed they were acting suspicious on purpose.
Toony suggesting sofanthiel has been heavily engaged with the game makes… very little sense to me, so I’m alright leaving my vote there for the time being.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 11:02:08 am
Should I slide my vote over to Toony? Let’s see what happens.
Toony
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 11:02:41 am
Well, do you have anything to add to it?
You summed it up pretty well in your original post, so the only things I can add are new developments. I find it strange that Caz interpreted my voting for them as me somehow agreeing that it's Toony:
So you agree that Toony is scum? Wild.
Oh, and I also don't agree with suspecting Snow for being indecisive:
This is even worse. You REALISE no lynching is bad, yet you still want to no lynch, yet you want to look good by acting martyr. You're my second pick, SnowKILLER.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 11:05:50 am
OK, but those are new developments, i.e. developments that had not happened at the time of your original vote. Did you have anything to add then? If not, why did you use your vote to throw weight behind a post whose subject hadn't been online to reply to it?Well, do you have anything to add to it?You summed it up pretty well in your original post, so the only things I can add are new developments. I find it strange that Caz interpreted my voting for them as me somehow agreeing that it's Toony:So you agree that Toony is scum? Wild.
Oh, and I also don't agree with suspecting Snow for being indecisive:This is even worse. You REALISE no lynching is bad, yet you still want to no lynch, yet you want to look good by acting martyr. You're my second pick, SnowKILLER.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 11:17:47 am
Did you have anything to add then? If not, why did you use your vote to throw weight behind a post whose subject hadn't been online to reply to it?
EP, I agreed with your assessment long before voting, but, as I said in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8495128#msg8495128) post, I abstained. I didn't just pick on Caz because they were inactive at the time.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 11:25:22 am
I'm not voting Crystal?
Look, I can't argue against a mastermind theory. I can prove you're wrong by voting whichever of the three players if I have to. I'm giving my honest opinion on the three of them.
@Crystal:
You're going about this the wrong way. Voting alongside Tric is a bad idea, especially after having just been voting them. Do you think Tric is fine now?
@Hector:
Blah blah I don't care if I die if it makes sofanthiel get towncred. If I'm not around it should show they're most likely player acting of their own accord unless Caz makes up a new mastermind.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 11:25:28 am
If you agreed anywhere, it was in the comfort of your skull; you didn't say anything about my assessment before your vote.Did you have anything to add then? If not, why did you use your vote to throw weight behind a post whose subject hadn't been online to reply to it?EP, I agreed with your assessment long before voting, but, as I said in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8495128#msg8495128) post, I abstained. I didn't just pick on Caz because they were inactive at the time.
Are you saying you voted Caz solely because you found her the most suspicious player at that moment and for no other purpose?
I don't want to take my vote off sofanthiel but the day's almost over for me and I need to grill MaximumSpin, who I find even more suspicious. MS, I don't like how you pivoted from joking to bantering to mentoring to lurker-prodding to nothing. I'll give you points for attacking me, but you haven't actually presented your case, just alluded to it a couple of times:
Also Max, who will you be voting for once you’ve heard from Tric? Is Tric’s response going to have enough of an impact that you’re going to change your mind?Hnnnnng. Unexpectedly, sort of.
Tric, you better plan on cleaning up all these barrels of town you've spilled all over.
Elephant Parade, when I was last in the thread, I thought you were noobtown and cryre was noobmafia. Can you pinpoint the moment this changed?
I think you crept away from your push on me because nobody else bit and you didn't want to be the star of the show. Care to change my mind?I'm surprised Max is memeing to be honest.I wasn't really trying to meme, anyway. I just wanted to signal "shut up, stop rambling about the detailed history of the toilet and its itemized cleaning regimen, and flush it already".
I forget that not everyone has the awe-inspiring planetbrain to understand what I'm getting at at all times.This is why I have more faith in hector than in Mammoth Motorcade, by the way. If you were wondering.My vote is on sofanthiel/Snowkiller because they are stubbornly refusing to participate, though I accept they’re new and are uncertain. I don’t necessarily suspect them, but I want them to push people, even if it’s ineffectually.
Coincidentally, that’s why I moved away from Crystallizedmire.
Like… I’ve asked the same question four or five different times and they keep making excuses and talking about statistics and various things like that.
Would you want either (or both!) of them at M/LYLO, Toony?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 11:30:11 am
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 11:31:23 am
I think Caz is right in her assessment.I have no idea why you think this unless it's not your genuine feelings.
Toony suggesting sofanthiel has been heavily engaged with the game makes… very little sense to me, so I’m alright leaving my vote there for the time being.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 11:36:42 am
If you agreed anywhere, it was in the comfort of your skull; you didn't say anything about my assessment before your vote.
It's just so nice in here! I'd invite you over, but it is already super cramped :P
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 11:40:48 am
ToonyMan is my strongest townread right now. I've read the arguments against him and I still don't know what other people are seeing in him that I'm not.I think Caz is probably genuinely paranoid of me.
I'm more suspicious of players (Crystal, Hector) that nod their head and go "yeah, makes sense to me".
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 11:46:40 am
I don't want to take my vote off sofanthiel but the day's almost over for me and I need to grill MaximumSpin, who I find even more suspicious. MS, I don't like how you pivoted from joking to bantering to mentoring to lurker-prodding to nothing. I'll give you points for attacking me, but you haven't actually presented your case, just alluded to it a couple of times:This is pretty in line for Max, whether he's town or scum. I give him slight townpoints for seemingly feeling the same way I was feeling at the time, but that only actually reinforces my townread of Tric.
[EXAMPLES]
I think you crept away from your push on me because nobody else bit and you didn't want to be the star of the show. Care to change my mind?
I think Max is an okay vote, but I have no good reason besides not trusting him and would rather vote someone I find more suspicious.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 11:50:01 am
That's interesting to know.I don't want to take my vote off sofanthiel but the day's almost over for me and I need to grill MaximumSpin, who I find even more suspicious. MS, I don't like how you pivoted from joking to bantering to mentoring to lurker-prodding to nothing. I'll give you points for attacking me, but you haven't actually presented your case, just alluded to it a couple of times:This is pretty in line for Max, whether he's town or scum. I give him slight townpoints for seemingly feeling the same way I was feeling at the time, but that only actually reinforces my townread of Tric.
[EXAMPLES]
I think you crept away from your push on me because nobody else bit and you didn't want to be the star of the show. Care to change my mind?
I think Max is an okay vote, but I have no good reason besides not trusting him and would rather vote someone I find more suspicious.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 11:53:55 am
ToonyMan is my strongest townread right now. I've read the arguments against him and I still don't know what other people are seeing in him that I'm not.
If so, we can probably team up and vote strategically because it doesn't currently look like Toony is making it through the lynching.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 11:58:24 am
@Hector:
Blah blah I don't care if I die if it makes sofanthiel get towncred. If I'm not around it should show they're most likely player acting of their own accord unless Caz makes up a new mastermind.
That’s my line. Plagiarist.
Which bit?I think Caz is right in her assessment.I have no idea why you think this unless it's not your genuine feelings.
Toony suggesting sofanthiel has been heavily engaged with the game makes… very little sense to me, so I’m alright leaving my vote there for the time being.
I’ve been thinking it’s a newbie tied with a more experienced player for a bit. I was worried it might be you, but now I’m not so sure. Then again I think you’re the best player in terms of looking town, so… benefit of the doubt I guess. The next experienced player in line is Max.
sofanthiel has made much more in the way of excuses than effort, despite multiple proddings to do so. If it’s not sofanthiel, it’s Snowkiller. To be perfectly honest I can’t really tell the difference between them a lot of the time. Crystallizedmire is engaging, and engaging in such a way that doesn’t look like they’re being coached.
PPE: I had just woken up and I’m lazy at the best of times.
Basically what I wanted to do last night was have Toony present what posts made then think sofanthiel is being heavily engaged in the game, because all I see are excuses not to participate. I voted Toony instead as he surprisingly had a wagon on him, as a (very, very) long shot to see if he slipped. More of a townslip, so I’ll return to regularly scheduled bullying newbies, unless someone can convince me someone else should be eliminated.
sofanthiel
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 18, 2023, 11:59:35 am
Sofanthiel seems more like a player who would say "yeah, makes sense to me" than me(though I'm still someone who would go along with the more experienced) though I partially think it is because they're a newbie rather than any intentional malice. However, I don't see why you trust them so much yet incredibly suspicious of me. In fact your first post wasn't that much better than my first post. You were quicker to engage in discussion because you were more experienced not because I'm scum.ToonyMan is my strongest townread right now. I've read the arguments against him and I still don't know what other people are seeing in him that I'm not.I think Caz is probably genuinely paranoid of me.
I'm more suspicious of players (Crystal, Hector) that nod their head and go "yeah, makes sense to me".
@Crystal:I'm still very suspicious of them but as I said before, Tric seems more annoying than actually scum or some other antagonizing force. But I'm going to keep an eye on them for the following days and I have my own reasons, like how you're suspicious of me even though I know for a fact I'm not scum.
You're going about this the wrong way. Voting alongside Tric is a bad idea, especially after having just been voting them. Do you think Tric is fine now?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 12:03:41 pm
Why should I team up with my #2 scumread? How can you vote strategically when you think the outcome is fixed?ToonyMan is my strongest townread right now. I've read the arguments against him and I still don't know what other people are seeing in him that I'm not.
If so, we can probably team up and vote strategically because it doesn't currently look like Toony is making it through the lynching.
More pressingly, that's twice now you've missed or "missed" one of my questions, and this time was really egregious:
Quote
If you agreed anywhere, it was in the comfort of your skull; you didn't say anything about my assessment before your vote.You need to stop doing that.
Are you saying you voted Caz solely because you found her the most suspicious player at that moment and for no other purpose?
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2023, 12:07:18 pm
An entire night, and nothing of value to poke at. Well, other than Toony not voting Elephant and suspecting Crystalized. (Despite my town read of them. Lot of talk against that, but still shades them from the light of a proper read position on them.)
Hector is right because from my perspective I have been more active than either Sofanthiel or Snowkiller. But Toony is right to doubt me though because of my earlier comments. What I don't get is why I'm more suspicious than Sofanthiel or Snowkiller. Toony also said that if they can get around to it, they would vote me, Caz, or Max in that order. Toony seems to think that I'm somehow more suspicious than any of the other newbies for some reason. So if Toony isn't scum then they're probably trying to act suspiciously on purpose which I doubt.
So you’re voting Toony because he thinks you’re suspicious?
This is why I think Crystallizedmire is the least suspicious of the newer players. They started off not really engaging, and have actually made an effort since then.
Should I slide my vote over to Toony? Let’s see what happens.
Toony
This bandwagon turned up quick.
You summed it up pretty well in your original post, so the only things I can add are new developments. I find it strange that Caz interpreted my voting for them as me somehow agreeing that it's Toony:
It was a reply to you saying I only said agreeable things.
OK, but those are new developments, i.e. developments that had not happened at the time of your original vote. Did you have anything to add then? If not, why did you use your vote to throw weight behind a post whose subject hadn't been online to reply to it?
The whole "baa i'll sacrifice myself if i have to" declaring crap over-annoys me, I think. Tbh between the three of them I'm not sure. I'm getting less sure about everything the longer the day goes. -.-
Unvote for now. Gonna grab dinner.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 12:10:08 pm
You literally quoted the post that asked the question, sofanthiel. The question was the very next line. What are you doing?If you agreed anywhere, it was in the comfort of your skull; you didn't say anything about my assessment before your vote.
It's just so nice in here! I'd invite you over, but it is already super cramped :P
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 12:11:15 pm
I’ve been thinking it’s a newbie tied with a more experienced player for a bit. I was worried it might be you, but now I’m not so sure. Then again I think you’re the best player in terms of looking town, so… benefit of the doubt I guess. The next experienced player in line is Max.
So you're judging who my teammate is based solely on their skill level, regardless of how town they seem? Isn't that a bit arbitrary? Who do you think it would be based on the actual interactions I've had and how I played?
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 18, 2023, 12:13:33 pm
Yes, mainly because of that and I'm also getting the feeling he's playing favourites and unfavourites with me and the other newbies. However, I still find TricMagic and hector13 suspicious(TricMagic is more suspicious than hector13).Hector is right because from my perspective I have been more active than either Sofanthiel or Snowkiller. But Toony is right to doubt me though because of my earlier comments. What I don't get is why I'm more suspicious than Sofanthiel or Snowkiller. Toony also said that if they can get around to it, they would vote me, Caz, or Max in that order. Toony seems to think that I'm somehow more suspicious than any of the other newbies for some reason. So if Toony isn't scum then they're probably trying to act suspiciously on purpose which I doubt.
So you’re voting Toony because he thinks you’re suspicious?
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 12:19:24 pm
Are you saying you voted Caz solely because you found her the most suspicious player at that moment and for no other purpose?
Precisely.
Why should I team up with my #2 scumread? How can you vote strategically when you think the outcome is fixed?
1. In that case, we have an overlapping goal.
2. If we organize, there's enough people to change the outcome.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 12:19:45 pm
I think you crept away from your push on me because nobody else bit and you didn't want to be the star of the show. Care to change my mind?I... didn't creep away from pushing on you at all? I still genuinely think you're mafia and I thought I made that clear as recently as my last couple of posts. The idea that "nobody else bit and [I] didn't want to be the star of the show" is completely inconsistent with my personality. I'm regularly hanging on as a last lonely vote on someone at the end of d1, as town or scum. However, I am allowed to move my attention.
You literally quoted the post that asked the question, sofanthiel. The question was the very next line. What are you doing?Answering stupid questions is for losers.
Not liking Caz here.
However, I still find TricMagic and hector13 suspicious(TricMagic is more suspicious than hector13).TricMagic is not more suspicious than hector13.
I wish I had a vote count so I can see what to do.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 12:27:24 pm
Thank you for answering the question. I actually find that pretty plausible.Are you saying you voted Caz solely because you found her the most suspicious player at that moment and for no other purpose?Precisely.
Quote
There are two of us. This is a nine-player game. I don't even want to lynch Caz anymore so the overlap doesn't exist unless you scumread either MS or yourself. What?Why should I team up with my #2 scumread? How can you vote strategically when you think the outcome is fixed?
1. In that case, we have an overlapping goal.
2. If we organize, there's enough people to change the outcome.
Where the hell is this sudden Toony wagon coming from? I don't see how that's what we want to do today. A few people here look like they're trying to find a scapegoat, actually, but probably too many to be all scum.I think you did creep away. You didn't reply to my answer to your question or otherwise push me in any way, nor had you pushed me at any point prior to that. Obviously you can move your attention, but if I'm one of your scumreads, why are you giving me seemingly no attention at all?I think you crept away from your push on me because nobody else bit and you didn't want to be the star of the show. Care to change my mind?I... didn't creep away from pushing on you at all? I still genuinely think you're mafia and I thought I made that clear as recently as my last couple of posts. The idea that "nobody else bit and [I] didn't want to be the star of the show" is completely inconsistent with my personality. I'm regularly hanging on as a last lonely vote on someone at the end of d1, as town or scum. However, I am allowed to move my attention.You literally quoted the post that asked the question, sofanthiel. The question was the very next line. What are you doing?Answering stupid questions is for losers.
Not liking Caz here.However, I still find TricMagic and hector13 suspicious(TricMagic is more suspicious than hector13).TricMagic is not more suspicious than hector13.
I wish I had a vote count so I can see what to do.
Your choice not to join either wagon makes me feel a little bit better about you, but not enough to move my vote.
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2023, 12:41:02 pm
Caz: 1: sofanthiel
Hector13: 1: ToonyMan
Maximum Spin: 1: Elephant Parade
Snowkiller: 1: Maximum Spin
sofanthiel: 1: Hector13
ToonyMan: 2: Crystalizedmire, TricMagic
Day ends ~5pm Pacific
Web gave me the code for the Mafia bot. I should get that up and running for this game.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 12:42:11 pm
I’ve been thinking it’s a newbie tied with a more experienced player for a bit. I was worried it might be you, but now I’m not so sure. Then again I think you’re the best player in terms of looking town, so… benefit of the doubt I guess. The next experienced player in line is Max.
So you're judging who my teammate is based solely on their skill level, regardless of how town they seem? Isn't that a bit arbitrary? Who do you think it would be based on the actual interactions I've had and how I played?
You are a cheeky mare if you expect me to take you asking me that question when you’ve ignored me asking who you think is scum and town for the entire bloody day, m80.
… I’m using process of elimination, just not sharing my working out.
I think it’s one of you or Snowkiller right now, possibly even both, which would be a horrific baptism of fire for you but dems de breaks sometimes.
I’ve outlined why I think it’s not CM.
Who does that leave, if you’re not partnered with Snowkiller?
As for experienced players, from most to least town, Caz, Toony, EP, Max. Toony and EP are close run, could swap positions easily depending on what happens.
PPE: vote sofanthiel, Max.
PPE2: utterly false. I’ve demanded sofanthiel and Snowkiller give reads all day before I voted sofanthiel. From most recent to least:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494985#msg8494985
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494983#msg8494983
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494926#msg8494926 (not a demand as such, observing that sofanthiel and Snowkiller are ignoring me)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494904#msg8494904
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494891#msg8494891 (more commentary about indecisiveness)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494834#msg8494834 (sofanthiel answered this, but with statistics, which means nothing)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494673#msg8494673 (not a question, but telling Snowkiller effort is better than silence)
I could even add the stuff when I was guiding CM, since they can see what I want from that. The only reason I appeared to make more effort with CM was because CM actually responded to what I was doing.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 12:52:02 pm
PPE2: utterly false. I’ve demanded sofanthiel and Snowkiller give reads all day before I voted sofanthiel. From most recent to least:OK, fair point; I take that back entirely.
I don't think the difference between Crystallizedmire and sofanthiel's respective willingness to engage makes the former more town as opposed to more willing to play, but I suppose that's enough to make them a slightly less attractive lynch.
I'm also curious when and how I went from a townread to a scumread for you.
What changed? When?Eh, I want more from sofanthiel and Snowkiller. They’ve got a bit under 24 hours to pick someone to eliminate, I will not accept no lynch as an answer.I don't really think it's either.
Currently I am happy with Hector or Elephant Parade's demise since one of them is mafia.
I’m disinclined to believe it’s EP so… come and ‘ave a go if you think yer ‘ard enough.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 12:54:13 pm
I think you did creep away. You didn't reply to my answer to your question or otherwise push me in any way, nor had you pushed me at any point prior to that. Obviously you can move your attention, but if I'm one of your scumreads, why are you giving me seemingly no attention at all?It's my understanding that you played here several years ago, before my time, right? This is very consistent with the attitude I expect from that time period, and I tend to mistake it for scummy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.
I don't personally worry about "pushing" people. I'm a shady fucker. I play my cards close to the vest, I ignore questions I deem beneath me, I will completely drop one thing to follow up something else. I keep my positions fluid. I simply don't see what town would gain if I focus more on you right now. I made my point that you're on my radar; if I reach the point where I think you're the right lynch for today, I'll vote for you and try to encourage others to do the same.
PPE: vote sofanthiel, Max.I really don't think sofanthiel is a better vote than Snowkiller, who still hasn't voted.
We must award him the hat.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 01:05:27 pm
sofanthiel and Snowkiller have had plenty of opportunity to take part. They decided to instead make statistical arguments over you being town, and against a lynch, despite plenty of proddings for scum and town reads, watching other people give scum and town reads, and watching me coach CM as to what they should be producing.
There’s only so much leeway I’m willing to give them as newbies before I have to consider it as something else.
@Max has sofanthiel’s votes convinced you they are less likely to be scum than Snowkiller?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 01:08:49 pm
@Max has sofanthiel’s votes convinced you they are less likely to be scum than Snowkiller?Ehh, no, that's fair.
If he flips mafia, we're going for Snowkiller next, right? I'm always down for a trade.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 01:13:18 pm
I’m too much of a purist to trade votes though. Should Snowkiller remain a scumread on D2, or you can convince me they’re the best lynch, then sure.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 01:15:37 pm
I’m too much of a purist to trade votes though. Should Snowkiller remain a scumread on D2, or you can convince me they’re the best lynch, then sure.You don't actually have to promise. Anything could happen between then and now. I just mean, as things currently stand.
All right, I really do accept your point. sofanthiel
Post by: TricMagic on August 18, 2023, 01:17:50 pm
... My vote on Toony still stands as the most likely info lynch day 1. Though a single vote alone doesn't grant much.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 01:27:05 pm
@EP You’re not a scumread. I think Max is more likely than you to be scum if sofanthiel is not teamed with Snowkiller. You’re fourth in line, at worst.Ah, I assumed that the back half of each read list = the back half of your greater read list, which would put me on the scum end, but I suppose that wasn't the case.
sofanthiel and Snowkiller have had plenty of opportunity to take part. They decided to instead make statistical arguments over you being town, and against a lynch, despite plenty of proddings for scum and town reads, watching other people give scum and town reads, and watching me coach CM as to what they should be producing.
There’s only so much leeway I’m willing to give them as newbies before I have to consider it as something else.
@Max has sofanthiel’s votes convinced you they are less likely to be scum than Snowkiller?
I've already made my feelings on sofanthiel clear. As for Snowkiller, I think they're merely living up to their claim of being a passive D1 player (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494670#msg8494670), which makes them more or less a null read to me. I don't like how they've ignored prods, though.
It's my understanding that you played here several years ago, before my time, right? This is very consistent with the attitude I expect from that time period, and I tend to mistake it for scummy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.Yes, I did.
I don't personally worry about "pushing" people. I'm a shady fucker. I play my cards close to the vest, I ignore questions I deem beneath me, I will completely drop one thing to follow up something else. I keep my positions fluid. I simply don't see what town would gain if I focus more on you right now. I made my point that you're on my radar; if I reach the point where I think you're the right lynch for today, I'll vote for you and try to encourage others to do the same.
Your approach doesn't make much sense to me but Toony vouched for it being your usual playstyle. I'll have to read some of your games during N1.
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2023, 01:37:42 pm
Not liking Caz here.
Why is this by itself? I demand recognition. You seem like you are just following the crowd with everything you say.
If so, we can probably team up and vote strategically because it doesn't currently look like Toony is making it through the lynching.
Question: would you rather be lynched over Toony?
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 01:42:11 pm
Why is this by itself? I demand recognition. You seem like you are just following the crowd with everything you say.Because you're not more than, like, fifth scummiest player and I don't think there are five mafia in a nine player game. Cool your jets.
Also I can't help it if other people agree with me.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 01:42:52 pm
Do you trust Elephant then? Or me for that matter?ToonyMan is my strongest townread right now. I've read the arguments against him and I still don't know what other people are seeing in him that I'm not.If so, we can probably team up and vote strategically because it doesn't currently look like Toony is making it through the lynching.
Both bits.Which bit?I think Caz is right in her assessment.I have no idea why you think this unless it's not your genuine feelings.
Toony suggesting sofanthiel has been heavily engaged with the game makes… very little sense to me, so I’m alright leaving my vote there for the time being.
I mean, you both joined a vote by agreeing with another player.Sofanthiel seems more like a player who would say "yeah, makes sense to me" than me(though I'm still someone who would go along with the more experienced) though I partially think it is because they're a newbie rather than any intentional malice.ToonyMan is my strongest townread right now. I've read the arguments against him and I still don't know what other people are seeing in him that I'm not.I think Caz is probably genuinely paranoid of me.
I'm more suspicious of players (Crystal, Hector) that nod their head and go "yeah, makes sense to me".
And yeah I agree I don't think it's intentional malice from Sofanthiel.
However, I don't see why you trust them so much yet incredibly suspicious of me. In fact your first post wasn't that much better than my first post. You were quicker to engage in discussion because you were more experienced not because I'm scum.It's relative, I found you more suspicious than the other new players. I've explained my feelings about that.
I'm on the fence whether you're mafia or not, and don't think you're a good vote.
I don't really like how Hector (and Max joining) are in newbkiller mode.
I don't really see why Elephant is a protected species by a lot of people. Crystals' still showcasing good posts, so still town read for me.Info-lynching is bad.
... My vote on Toony still stands as the most likely info lynch day 1. Though a single vote alone doesn't grant much.
I'm liking Elephant Parade more. I don't think they're a good vote.
I think Max is at least right that Snowkiller should voice their suspicions, which the other players have done at least. I've only really gone off intuition for them.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 01:49:41 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 01:57:43 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 02:00:59 pm
You are a cheeky mare if you expect me to take you asking me that question when you’ve ignored me asking who you think is scum and town for the entire bloody day, m80.
Basically what I wanted to do last night was have Toony present what posts made then think sofanthiel is being heavily engaged in the game, because all I see are excuses not to participate.
Saying we ignored your questions and made excuses is untruthful; we refused to say a name because we wanted a no-lynch. I've outlined my reasons for that passive play-style and why I subsequently changed it here:
I can't speak for the other newbies, but when one can't control how others read their behavior, especially when very experienced players are present, making no enemies or decisions on day 1 means others are presented with little information to work with to figure out alignment/role. Another thing is that, at least in regular in-person games, the mafia usually tends to target those who suspect them. You would've lynched someone either way; we couldn't have convinced you otherwise, so our voting, given the difficulty of actually reaching a verdict, seemed superfluous. Neutrality didn't strike me as a particularly bad approach for both survival and concealing my identity, although I did give it up after multiple people became agitated.
I would prefer sofanthiel because they seem to be a bit more maliciously ignorant (if that makes any sense, see them ignoring EP’s questions recently as an example) than Snowkiller.
I didn't answer every question because some of them were so bland (sorry, EP!), they almost seemed rhetorical. Like, for example:
How can you vote strategically when you think the outcome is fixed?
What non-generic answer can I provide? What does that even mean?? I did, however, answer all of these in a separate reply.
I don't think the difference between Crystallizedmire and sofanthiel's respective willingness to engage makes the former more town as opposed to more willing to play, but I suppose that's enough to make them a slightly less attractive lynch.
Hey! Just because I'm not throwing red text left and right doesn't mean my engagement is that bad.
Question: would you rather be lynched over Toony?
No. Unlike myself, I am not 100% confident of Toony's alignment.
Do you trust Elephant then? Or me for that matter?
I don't believe either one of you is mafia, but trust isn't what I'd call that.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 02:02:05 pm
My theory is that I don't think your scumpicks can make any sense because you're mafia. I think this is why in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8495052#msg8495052) when I'm speculating worlds where you or Max are town the town!Hector world seems very unclear. You're trying to figure out which players you can get away with voting. You started by focusing on the newbies (whether or not Crystal is mafia is not relevant right now) and even though you said earlier in the game it was just to get their asses going, it's really just a way to not be happy with them and have them as your toppicks anyway.You are a cheeky mare if you expect me to take you asking me that question when you’ve ignored me asking who you think is scum and town for the entire bloody day, m80.I’ve been thinking it’s a newbie tied with a more experienced player for a bit. I was worried it might be you, but now I’m not so sure. Then again I think you’re the best player in terms of looking town, so… benefit of the doubt I guess. The next experienced player in line is Max.So you're judging who my teammate is based solely on their skill level, regardless of how town they seem? Isn't that a bit arbitrary? Who do you think it would be based on the actual interactions I've had and how I played?
… I’m using process of elimination, just not sharing my working out.
I think it’s one of you or Snowkiller right now, possibly even both, which would be a horrific baptism of fire for you but dems de breaks sometimes.
I’ve outlined why I think it’s not CM.
Meanwhile, look at Elephant Parade for comparison. They held a strong suspicion of Caz, enough to vote them. But once Caz was around they reconsidered. This makes me believe Elephant is naturally forming thoughts and conclusions in his head. This is a reason why I feel better about Elephant.
Which is something I don't believe you're doing, Hector.
If sofanthiel and ToonyMan are neck and neck when I leave, I'll have to switch to sofanthiel. I'll take my #2 scumpick over my #1 townpick, even if my #1 and #~3-4 scumpicks are on their wagon. Would still prefer MS but nobody else seems interestedI'll be more interested in Max after D1 if they're around. I'm sure he feels the same about me.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 02:03:35 pm
@Toony I did ask you to provide some posts as to why you think sofanthiel is heavily engaged in the game. I’m open to being convinced I’m wrong, though you presenting it as newbkilling when I’ve given them pleeeeeeenty opportunity to convince me otherwise is unfair.Sofanthiel has constantly been a part of this game.
What do I even need to show
literally
read the thread
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 02:05:08 pm
I'll be more interested in Max after D1 if they're around. I'm sure he feels the same about me.If I'm still around d2, I'll think it isn't you, honestly.
Sofanthiel has constantly been a part of this game.It just feels like he's been fucking around. I'm pretty sure that's what hector's thinking too.
What do I even need to show
literally
read the thread
I'd rather vote out Snowkiller, to be sure, but this is the way things stand right now. I'm not AGAINST it by any stretch.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 02:10:38 pm
I didn't answer every question because some of them were so bland (sorry, EP!), they almost seemed rhetorical. Like, for example:I think my answer was confusing because I misunderstood what you meant:How can you vote strategically when you think the outcome is fixed?What non-generic answer can I provide? What does that even mean?? I did, however, answer all of these in a separate reply.
If so, we can probably team up and vote strategically because it doesn't currently look like Toony is making it through the lynching.I read this to mean, "Toonyman will definitely be lynched at the end at the end of the day, so we should strategically vote together for someone else." That's obvious nonsense because if a player is lynched, any votes for other players are necessarily symbolic, not strategic*... which probably should've been my first clue that that wasn't what you meant. I now think that you wanted to vote with me against another player in the hopes that that player would amass enough votes to be lynched instead of ToonyMan. Am I correct?
* In the sense that they don't matter to the immediate outcome of the vote
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 02:11:24 pm
Sofanthiel has constantly been a part of this game.
What do I even need to show
literally
read the thread
Y'know, you've got a good point!
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 02:15:47 pm
Am I correct?
Mhm, but that's not relevant anymore, as now I'm the one not surviving today's lynching.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 02:20:20 pm
Yeah, sure, sure...I'll be more interested in Max after D1 if they're around. I'm sure he feels the same about me.If I'm still around d2, I'll think it isn't you, honestly.
I think I'm willing to vote Snowkiller over Sofanthiel if it comes to that but I don't think it's a good vote still.
From my perspective, Sofanthiel's actions don't make sense if they're mafia.If so, we can probably team up and vote strategically because it doesn't currently look like Toony is making it through the lynching.I read this to mean, "Toonyman will definitely be lynched at the end at the end of the day, so we should strategically vote together for someone else." That's obvious nonsense because if a player is lynched, any votes for other players are necessarily symbolic, not strategic*... which probably should've been my first clue that that wasn't what you meant. I now think that you wanted to vote with me against another player in the hopes that that player would amass enough votes to be lynched instead of ToonyMan. Am I correct?
* In the sense that they don't matter to the immediate outcome of the vote
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 02:21:19 pm
From my perspective, Sofanthiel's actions don't make sense if they're mafia.Could you explain why, for me?
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 02:22:16 pm
The fact you, Toony, are glossing over all that for a newb!town read really bothers me.
I started the day on EP to see what would happen (and also got us out of doing RVS basically immediately as a consequence, I might add) then shifted to CM to get them into it, was sufficiently convinced they’re not scum and moved to sofanthiel because of the aforementioned lack of intent. Shifted to you because in my sleep inertia thought you might crack, and then back to sofanthiel because I am still bemused as to why they can’t tell us who their top town and scum picks are, however poorly justified. With their own justifications for it.
How about Snowkiller then? I’ve said my preference would be sofanthiel, but there’s very little between them.
PPE: well you said you would, and I will, but I’ll curious to see where Max can get to.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 18, 2023, 02:24:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 02:29:31 pm
Sofanthiel wanted to team up with Elephant there to save me. Not sure why they bother as mafia, especially if they're so disengaged with the game.From my perspective, Sofanthiel's actions don't make sense if they're mafia.Could you explain why, for me?
How about Snowkiller then? I’ve said my preference would be sofanthiel, but there’s very little between them.I'm a bit opposed because now I would be siding with a player I suspect, but maybe I'm wrong and you're somehow right that's it's Sofanthiel and Snowkiller. That's the only reasoning I can see that makes sense. Which makes me look like a complete moron. A hard hurdle to cross...
I honestly think that sofanthiel is just a newbie not avoiding questions cause they're scum.I don't know why Crystal is seeing this and not Hector or Max.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 02:32:19 pm
I honestly think that sofanthiel is just a newbie not avoiding questions cause they're scum.
You’re a newbie. You came into the game with basically zero knowledge of how to play, but you’re offering up your opinions and justifications for them. Why can’t sofanthiel and Snowkiller?
PPE: I mean… above paragraph. I’m not looking for stunning analytical play that solves the game now. I’m looking for effort, which I’ve been trying to get for the entire day.
Back when Tric started I didn’t have to go to this much effort to get something out of him.
Post by: TricMagic on August 18, 2023, 02:39:57 pm
If you can't trust your own reads on people, who can you trust? That's not conductive to lynching if you don't even have a single townread.Question: would you rather be lynched over Toony?
No. Unlike myself, I am not 100% confident of Toony's alignment.Do you trust Elephant then? Or me for that matter?
I don't believe either one of you is mafia, but trust isn't what I'd call that.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 02:41:48 pm
I'm not even talking about him avoiding questions. I avoid questions. I'm talking about him fucking around. There's a non-directedness and unwillingness to do better that isn't, in and of itself, AI, but doesn't look good and I need to make it stop one way or the other.I honestly think that sofanthiel is just a newbie not avoiding questions cause they're scum.I don't know why Crystal is seeing this and not Hector or Max.
It's similar to what I've voted Knightwing for before on multiple occasions.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 18, 2023, 02:45:56 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 02:55:39 pm
This is mostly coming from my gut, but Crystallizedmire's posts have felt like word vomit thrown out just to have something there, not serious attempts at reasoning. I respect him for actually playing the game, but he doesn't read as town to me.I honestly think that sofanthiel is just a newbie not avoiding questions cause they're scum.You’re a newbie. You came into the game with basically zero knowledge of how to play, but you’re offering up your opinions and justifications for them. Why can’t sofanthiel and Snowkiller?
Translation: hector13 cannot read, and so blames others. I'm not sure why you being unable to read something that was previously posted makes me mafia, but I figure that's your deal and continue on.I still don't find you particularly scummy, but you should really, really put some content out there if you don't want to be lynched for being useless! What are your reads? Who would you vote right now if No Lynch wasn't an option, and why?
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 02:56:16 pm
I'm talking about him fucking around. There's a non-directedness and unwillingness to do better that isn't, in and of itself, AI, but doesn't look good and I need to make it stop one way or the other.
Can you please elaborate? I'm confused by this. I do throw in the occasional joke, yes, but I fail to see how all I do is just fuck around.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 02:57:46 pm
Translation: hector13 cannot read, and so blames others. I'm not sure why you being unable to read something that was previously posted makes me mafia, but I figure that's your deal and continue on.
If you want to make things more abrasive I’m quite willing to drop the politeness if you want?
What am I not reading? That you suspect MaxSpin? Because you’ve posted seven times in the game, and put shade on one person, and done nothing with that.
If you’re town, the only way you win is by lynching scum. How do you intend to contribute to that?
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 02:59:18 pm
for now, that is.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 03:00:58 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 03:01:16 pm
It's not about jokes either. What I mean is that you feel like you're talking just to talk. Not too different from what EP said about Cryer, which I *also* agree with, and it's why I was going to vote Cryer earlier after TricMagic.I'm talking about him fucking around. There's a non-directedness and unwillingness to do better that isn't, in and of itself, AI, but doesn't look good and I need to make it stop one way or the other.
Can you please elaborate? I'm confused by this. I do throw in the occasional joke, yes, but I fail to see how all I do is just fuck around.
Maybe you don't feel the same. I understand that. You probably wouldn't INTEND to seem that way. But why haven't you actually done anything?
Post by: Snowkiller on August 18, 2023, 03:10:30 pm
I could redirect my suspicion from Maximum Spin towards you, if that will help. I don't know--you let me know what it is you'd like to do.Translation: hector13 cannot read, and so blames others. I'm not sure why you being unable to read something that was previously posted makes me mafia, but I figure that's your deal and continue on.
If you want to make things more abrasive I’m quite willing to drop the politeness if you want?
What am I not reading? That you suspect MaxSpin? Because you’ve posted seven times in the game, and put shade on one person, and done nothing with that.
If you’re town, the only way you win is by lynching scum. How do you intend to contribute to that?
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 18, 2023, 03:15:48 pm
Translation: hector13 cannot read, and so blames others. I'm not sure why you being unable to read something that was previously posted makes me mafia, but I figure that's your deal and continue on.could please name specific examples?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 03:17:36 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 03:18:13 pm
That just means I don’t have to deal with this anymore, because even if you and/or sofanthiel aren’t scum, they’re not going to kill you, so I’ll have to deal with the survivor on D2, which is not a happy thought.
Post by: TricMagic on August 18, 2023, 03:20:12 pm
Hey, Elephant. Who was it that actually responded to my little bait? Being on the sidelines watching and commenting is not conductive to hunting. I'm aware I'm doing it, but this is called throwing shade.This is mostly coming from my gut, but Crystallizedmire's posts have felt like word vomit thrown out just to have something there, not serious attempts at reasoning. I respect him for actually playing the game, but he doesn't read as town to me.I honestly think that sofanthiel is just a newbie not avoiding questions cause they're scum.You’re a newbie. You came into the game with basically zero knowledge of how to play, but you’re offering up your opinions and justifications for them. Why can’t sofanthiel and Snowkiller?Translation: hector13 cannot read, and so blames others. I'm not sure why you being unable to read something that was previously posted makes me mafia, but I figure that's your deal and continue on.I still don't find you particularly scummy, but you should really, really put some content out there if you don't want to be lynched for being useless! What are your reads? Who would you vote right now if No Lynch wasn't an option, and why?
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2023, 03:20:39 pm
Crystal/Snowkiller/sofanthiel are the newbies, or at least I haven't played with them. They all look sketchy to me, and I ordered them in town->scum (I usually do this in some sort of order, figure it out if you want), but I don't really want to lynch a newb just because it is too easy to get a bandwagon going on something that had nothing behind it. Not playing to standard, making silly mistakes, whatever. They also talked less than others, so it's worth less. But that doesn't mean we should infolynch like Tric said either.
Out of Toony/hector/Tric/Max, I posit Maximum Spin to have given the least content and effort out of all the experienced players.
It's not about jokes either. What I mean is that you feel like you're talking just to talk. Not too different from what EP said about Cryer, which I *also* agree with, and it's why I was going to vote Cryer earlier after TricMagic.
Maybe you don't feel the same. I understand that. You probably wouldn't INTEND to seem that way. But why haven't you actually done anything?
.
I'll be more interested in Max after D1 if they're around. I'm sure he feels the same about me.If I'm still around d2, I'll think it isn't you, honestly.
.
Sofanthiel has constantly been a part of this game.It just feels like he's been fucking around. I'm pretty sure that's what hector's thinking too.
What do I even need to show
literally
read the thread
I'd rather vote out Snowkiller, to be sure, but this is the way things stand right now. I'm not AGAINST it by any stretch.
A lot of ‘feelings’ and assuming/projecting what others think, and not even a clear decision at the end. It seems like you don’t really care who gets lynched, as long as it isn’t you. You move from Crystal to Tric to Snowkiller. After the accusations the posts drop off to single comments. Looking back to your banter with Hector it seems like all you have done all game. Just trying to ease out of sight or something. Can you guys see what I see?
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2023, 03:23:57 pm
Saying we ignored your questions and made excuses is untruthful; we refused to say a name because we wanted a no-lynch. I've outlined my reasons for that passive play-style and why I subsequently changed it here:
Please do not use red coloring on anything that is not an actual vote/unvote. I skim the thread looking for red, and this sort of thing makes it harder for me to do an accurate vote tally.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 03:26:41 pm
Hey, Elephant. Who was it that actually responded to my little bait? Being on the sidelines watching and commenting is not conductive to hunting. I'm aware I'm doing it, but this is called throwing shade.I'm sorry but I once again barely understand what you're talking about. I've made my cases against MS and sofanthiel and I don't presently have anything to add to them, and I'm coaching Snowkiller because I think their lynch would kill town and provide very little information.
I'm glad Caz is seeing what I'm seeing. If nothing else, this essentially disproves the MaximumSpin/Caz scumteam I've been contemplating on and off, and it moves Caz from a neutral read to a modest townread for me.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 03:29:46 pm
Maybe you don't feel the same. I understand that. You probably wouldn't INTEND to seem that way. But why haven't you actually done anything?
I am still bemused as to why they can’t tell us who their top town and scum picks are, however poorly justified. With their own justifications for it.
Alright. My best guess is that it's hector and Crystal. The only difference between all the newbies is that Crystal jumps on bandwagons, yet hector treats them as if they are being extremely productive. It would make sense for hector to try and lynch the other beginners while also "helping" one of them, as he himself pointed out here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494831#msg8494831). I do agree that a lot of Crystal's posts are just filler, and both of them switch their positions a lot without much in the way of reason. Hector is yet to actually explain why he thought Toony (whom Crystal also voted for) and MS were likely to be mafia with me, besides them just being skilled players.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 03:32:15 pm
Please do not use red coloring on anything that is not an actual vote/unvote. I skim the thread looking for red, and this sort of thing makes it harder for me to do an accurate vote tally.
Sorry about that; it won't happen again!
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 03:35:36 pm
I find this extremely convincing but the lack of examples (of Crystal bandwagoning and both of them swapping positions arbitrarily) has me a bit hesitant—I remember some but I could be hyperbolizing them in my head. Could you provide some?Maybe you don't feel the same. I understand that. You probably wouldn't INTEND to seem that way. But why haven't you actually done anything?I am still bemused as to why they can’t tell us who their top town and scum picks are, however poorly justified. With their own justifications for it.Alright. My best guess is that it's hector and Crystal. The only difference between all the newbies is that Crystal jumps on bandwagons, yet hector treats them as if they are being extremely productive. It would make sense for hector to try and lynch the other beginners while also "helping" one of them, as he himself pointed out here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181909.msg8494831#msg8494831). I do agree that a lot of Crystal's posts are just filler, and both of them switch their positions a lot without much in the way of reason. Hector is yet to actually explain why he thought Toony (whom Crystal also voted for) and MS were likely to be mafia with me, besides them just being skilled players.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 18, 2023, 03:38:01 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 03:38:40 pm
What posts of CM’s are filler? Specifically compared and contrasted with your posts and Snowkiller’s posts, please.
Also that linked post doesn’t say what you say it does:
What are your ideas for the day? Other than answering the same questions multiple times…
‘Cause another thing scum do with newbies is offer advice. It makes them look active and helpful, while actually being neither. You, me, Max, and EP have all jumped on Snowkiller for guidance. Would you say there’s scum in that grouping?
I said scum can look active and productive helping newbies, not that killing some while helping another is a strategy. Caz mentioned going after newbies was a scumtell at some point I can’t be bothered finding.
Toony’s been defending you all day, despite my very clear concerns with your play. MS is the least townie of the experienced players…. but Max is always pinging my scumdar.
Equally so, if CM and I are a team, we have a private chat to improve his play, though that’s WIFOM.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 03:42:02 pm
I'm out tonight so I can't do better than phone posting until day end.
I'm willing to vote Hector the most.
I'm willing to vote Max, Snowkiller, or Crystal in no particular order.
I'm probably not willing to vote Elephant or Caz.
I'm not willing to vote Sofenthiel or Tric.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 03:58:19 pm
I find this extremely convincing but the lack of examples (of Crystal bandwagoning and both of them swapping positions arbitrarily) has me a bit hesitant—I remember some but I could be hyperbolizing them in my head. Could you provide some?
Sure thing! Not all of these are equally not-so-useful, and some of them I just struggle to understand, but here ya go:
I have literally no idea what the relation between Elephant Parade and scum is so I'm voting hector13
This is funny, but that's mainly because I thought that we were the ones asking the questions
Fun fact: 90% of statistics is made up on the spot
If it is possible I would like to vote in favour of skipping lynching
You're right, let's vote hector13.
Honestly, it's probably because of my first impression of you. You start the game by voting against Elephant Parade before anybody has posted so naturally you're a bit suspicious.
I don't think I trust anyone all that much.Do you find him more or less suspicious than you did at the time of his first post? Why?I do find hector less suspicious than starting out since I'm starting to think this is what he does every game(I haven't seen nor read any mafia games he's played in so far) but I still find him quite suspicious.
I'm changing my vote of hector to hector. Probably not a smart decision but he seems a lot less suspicious.
What I meant to say was that you're a lot less suspicious now than before and I'm changing my vote blue because of that. I didn't mean to imply I find someone else more suspicious.
Scums are thought to be more inflammatory because they have more to lose than townies since they have lower numbers.
I absolutely do not trust you at all TricMagic
Wait, is this usual behaviour from TricMagic or is he trying to get killed on purpose?
Have you noticed the fact that most if not all the people nolynching are newbies?
Toony seems to think that I'm somehow more suspicious than any of the other newbies for some reason. So if Toony isn't scum then they're probably trying to act suspiciously on purpose which I doubt. While Tricmagic is still suspicious, I'm starting to think they're more annoying than anything else, and has since claimed they were acting suspicious on purpose.
Yes, mainly because of that and I'm also getting the feeling he's playing favourites and unfavourites with me and the other newbies. However, I still find TricMagic and hector13 suspicious(TricMagic is more suspicious than hector13).
I honestly think that sofanthiel is just a newbie not avoiding questions cause they're scum.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 18, 2023, 04:01:53 pm
Toonyman is voted by Tric and I
Maximum spin is voted by Elephant and Caz
Hector13 is voted by sofathiel and Toony
If my chart is correct then if the day ends now there would be a four-way tie and I'm considering changing my votes.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 04:08:39 pm
Reading those posts you quoted doesn't look like Crystal is with Hector to me.
@Crystal:
Sofanthiel is voted by hector and maximumI can switch to Max if a tie looks likely. I think I'm okay trusting Elephant and Caz's judgment here.
Toonyman is voted by Tric and I
Maximum spin is voted by Elephant and Caz
Hector13 is voted by sofathiel and Toony
If my chart is correct then if the day ends now there would be a four-way tie and I'm considering changing my votes.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 04:09:51 pm
You have done nothing but complain about statistics and no lynches, and coincidentally choose - four hours prior to day end! - to make a case against someone who has been on at you all day, and coincidentally the only player you’re likely to be able to get eliminated ahead of you? Come on guy.
PPE: CM can’t simultaneously be posting fuller and engaging with the game.
Here are Snowkiller’s posts, please tell me how that is better than what CM has been doing. This should be easy as you have all Snowkiller’s posts below and the issues you have with CM from your own post:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
PPE2: Toony and Snowkiller will be voting me soon, possibly followed by EP and maybe even Caz. The tie won’t last to day end brah.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 04:15:53 pm
@Sofanthiel:
Reading those posts you quoted doesn't look like Crystal is with Hector to me.
Yes, Crystal did vote and unvote hector quite a few times, but it's mainly hector's posts (and lack of acknowledgement of being accused) that made me believe they may be teammates in some capacity. Those examples are more of a display of filler that EP asked me to present (no offense, CM!).
Post by: Snowkiller on August 18, 2023, 04:16:19 pm
VOTE: hector13
REASON: I had originally voted for Maximum Spin, but after seeing hector13's latest post, his whole deal doesn't add up. My posts are, apparently, "filler." I don't see what's filler about owning up to a mistake I made. I just wanted an integrity check, as cheating defeats the whole point of this game genre and flexing one's noggin. Sure, I've had some banter posts, but then, quoting my previous two about voting for him in response to his jab about being "less polite" or whatever . . . makes no sense. His whole collection of antics since the game began aren't adding up, and for that reason, he gets my vote. With suspicion towards Maximum Spin to follow D2.
On the bright side, I'm no longer voting no-lynch D1.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 04:23:52 pm
Ah well. If the votes are tied between me and someone else at day end, I’ll hammer/cast the deciding vote on meself, just in case EP doesn’t get back in time.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 04:25:36 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 04:32:47 pm
You have done nothing but complain about statistics and no lynches, and coincidentally choose - four hours prior to day end! - to make a case against someone who has been on at you all day, and coincidentally the only player you’re likely to be able to get eliminated ahead of you? Come on guy.
I did not complain about not lynching; I was simply exploring the idea at the beginning of the day. I then changed my mind after Tric presented me with mathematical proof. Also, I did make a case against you, yes! Just because you've been pushing me all day doesn't mean I did it out of spite, though. :)
I could've easily jumped on Max or Toony, both of whom had 2 votes, and 1 more would've been sufficient to lynch them, saving myself.
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2023, 04:33:00 pm
PPE2: Toony and Snowkiller will be voting me soon, possibly followed by EP and maybe even Caz. The tie won’t last to day end brah.
So vote Max.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 18, 2023, 04:38:54 pm
I'm starting to think that hector13 is a scum who is trying to get me on his side. He praises me for my participation and not for any arguments I made as if trying to say that he's on my side. Another about hector and participation is that I feel like he is trying to ruin my ability to make solid arguments on purpose. And I do in fact find it suspicious that he is trying to vote out you, sofanthiel. I'm pretty sure if he is trying to make me trust him, he would try to vote any other newbies he couldn't convince. I don't think I've made any good arguments so far, so if hector and I were scum then I would've made at least one solid argument.@Sofanthiel:
Reading those posts you quoted doesn't look like Crystal is with Hector to me.
Yes, Crystal did vote and unvote hector quite a few times, but it's mainly hector's posts (and lack of acknowledgement of being accused) that made me believe they may be teammates in some capacity. Those examples are more of a display of filler that EP asked me to present (no offense, CM!).
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2023, 04:42:29 pm
Hector13: 4: Crystalizedmire, Snowkiller, sofanthiel, ToonyMan
Maximum Spin: 2: Caz, Elephant Parade
sofanthiel: 2: Hector13, Maximum Spin
ToonyMan: 1: TricMagic
Day ends in ~2 hours
Post by: TricMagic on August 18, 2023, 04:44:09 pm
As for this sudden push on Hector, he pushes you, undermines you, supports you, and scrutinizes you. In other words a veteran supporting and pushing new players, while still playing the game of Mafia, looking for inconsistencies.
Ninja. I'll vote... Well, no one... Right now anyway, but am here. (Yes I'm aware that's suspicious. But nearing day end I'd want to put things to order.)
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 04:45:47 pm
PPE2: Toony and Snowkiller will be voting me soon, possibly followed by EP and maybe even Caz. The tie won’t last to day end brah.
So vote Max.
Nah I’m frustrated being in a game with sofanthiel and Snowkiller. One of them, or me.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 04:57:33 pm
I honestly want elephant goneI'm down if you are.
Post by: TricMagic on August 18, 2023, 04:58:45 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 05:02:29 pm
Shame if he gets lynched, though, I was waiting for a chance to call him "Colossal Convoy".
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 05:09:11 pm
I honestly want elephant gone, though that wall of Sofanthiel's isn't at all nice to look at, it's almost entirely quotes. Quotes he should have addressed more directly, 12 hours ago.
I realized it was a bit too wall-ey after postage, so please do forgive that oversight. Now that I think about it, I should've put it all inside
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ultimately, its intended purpose was to make people's lives easier; EP asked me to, and I wanted to convince him, so I complied.
Nah I’m frustrated being in a game with sofanthiel and Snowkiller. One of them, or me.
Hey! Didn't I already apologize for being wrong about the whole "no-lynching" thing? I actually listened to your advice and made a logical argument, just like you asked. If you really feel that much disdain for my playstyle now, elaborate on what can be improved, like Max did. :)
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 05:13:16 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 18, 2023, 05:23:49 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
@hector13, I know I've quoted this already, but this snippet summarized my, at the time, flawed reasoning perfectly. I do hope we can leave that as water under the bridge.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 05:26:47 pm
Why did it take you most of the day to figure out I was scum and that CM is my partner?
On the other side of the coin, for the nth time today, you’ve figured out who the scum team are, does that mean you’re happy saying everyone else is town?
PPE: I mean, you say in that quote that the mafia target people who suspect them. How does that fit with you targeting me, and also Snowkiller targeting me?
Equally so, despite most of the playerbase telling you that no lynching wasn’t going to happen, you kept it as something you wanted to do for at least 2/3 of the day.
Post by: TricMagic on August 18, 2023, 05:58:05 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:02:55 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:04:10 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:08:12 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 06:11:33 pm
I'm not for a hector lynch here. Can I interest you guys in anything else? Coffee, tea, pachyderm?
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:27:15 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 06:28:45 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:29:48 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:30:22 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 18, 2023, 06:31:12 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:32:26 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 06:32:29 pm
My distracted brain is going to make extremely emotional decisions and switch to Max to see what happens.
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:33:00 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 06:33:22 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:34:05 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:42:44 pm
Post by: TricMagic on August 18, 2023, 06:55:27 pm
Toonyman I fully blame you for this.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 06:55:43 pm
I do want Hector more but he's pulling my heartstrings
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:58:27 pm
Oh ffs we’ll deal with it tomorrow.
Max
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 06:58:46 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2023, 06:59:38 pm
I pulled over for little
Post by: hector13 on August 18, 2023, 07:00:03 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2023, 07:00:14 pm
Elephant Parade: 1: Maximum Spin
Hector13: 3: Crystalizedmire, Snowkiller, sofanthiel
Maximum Spin: 4: Caz, Elephant Parade, Hector13, ToonyMan
ToonyMan: 1: TricMagic
The Hierophant stands up and slams the butt of his staff against the flagstones. "The time alloted has been spent. The sun dips down, and we must all make our way home before evil takes to the streets."
"Maximum Spin, it is the will of the gathered that you be executed as a danger to our people." He raises his hand, and a column of orange light surrounds Max.
"What? No!! You can't do this to me! You cursed humans will" his sentence is cut off with a scream as you see his shape change. The illusion of humanity is stripped from him, and you see before you one of the Fey. Long features, green eyes with no white to them, joints that move in unnatural ways.
The light grows in power, until you are forced to look away.
When it dims, and you look back, the is nothing left but a pile of ash.
The Hierophant looks down at the pile, and then at the rest of you. "Well done. That fey Illusionist was surely one of those working against us. They have long dreamed of driving humanity from these lands and claiming them as their own once again. Go home, and rest. But we wary. Danger still lurks in the darkness. We are not safe, yet."
The Day has ended. PM me your night actions if you have any!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2023, 12:10:29 pm
You all gather again at the Shrine.
The Hierophant looks around, taking stock. “Ah, good. We are all here. And no further deaths. The Ancestors must be pleased with us!”
He lights a fresh stick of incense and places it upon the altar.
“May they guide your words and deeds through this day, so that this evil time can pass us swiftly.”
He slams his staff on the flagstones again. “The Second Day of the Trials has begun!”
Day 2 will end ~5pm Pacific Wednesday.
FYI, Southern California is being hit by the first Tropical Storm in like 80 years right now, so it is quite possible that I'll lose power for some time. If I'm unresponsive, that'll be why. I will try to at least keep you up to date via my phone, if I can.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 12:16:09 pm
So.
Pretty sure it’s one of the newer players, in the order of Snowkiller, CM, sofanthiel.
Clarifying something with Meph, also.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 12:17:33 pm
Either the scums skipped voting/voting was tied or there was only one scum left and a guard locked them inside(in which case I'm pretty sure I know who it is)
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 12:29:05 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 12:30:52 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 12:33:32 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 12:33:56 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 12:36:56 pm
Eurgh it’s not sofanthiel then. I know for suresies a kill attempt was made.Can you explain how you know that?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 12:51:27 pm
Likely scum:
- TricMagic: Completely bonkers even compared to his usual self. His only engagement with the game was to tag-team me, MS's foremost critic, with MS; now that MS is confirmed scum, that looks really bad. MS and ToonyMan, who are familiar with him, say that this is his town self, but MS is scum and ToonyMan could be too (or just misreading him). I think that MS was coaching him to fake his town meta.
- Hector: Posted weirdly in the back half of the day. Strange interactions with MS + shared coaching/newbie focus; kind of felt like a good cop/bad cop routine. Gets no points for voting MS because ToonyMan had already promised to do it.
Probably not scum:
- Sofanthiel: Very strange play but not unthinkable for a newbie; fewer red flags than Hector and Tric for me. Case against Hector was extremely good relative to earlier play—I think it's their own work, but if they're scum, they could've been fed it by MS. MS had to be pushed REALLY hard to vote them over Snowkiller but there are other explanations for that (wanting a lower-information lynch, not wanting to engage with someone who was actually posting). If Hector flips town, Sofanthiel looks pretty bad.
- ToonyMan: Quiet early D1. Gets only a tenth of a point for pledging to vote MS because Hector did it before they could. Vouched for both Tric and MS's play following their metas. Was extremely noncommittal about MS, pledging only to vote them D2, which is an eternity away (especially if MS's critics disappear in the meantime). Did not push to lynch a noob, unlike MS, which is a good sign if I'm right that the mafia is all vets. If Tric flips scum, the game doesn't end, and Hector flips town, Toony looks pretty bad.
- Crystallizedmire: Nearly unthinkable to me outside of a MS/Hector/CM scumteam. I could see a town!Hector correctly reading a town!CM or a scum!Hector pocketing a town!CM, but I can't see a town!Hector seeing scum!CM's late-D1 posts and going 'oh yeah they gotta be town'. Their early posts are REALLY weird if they have partners but anything's possible.
- Snowkiller: I don't know why MS would've pushed their lynch so hard if they were scum. They've given us frustratingly little to work with but that's life.
- Caz: Revived MS's wagon at a time when nobody, not even me, was actively pushing it, which would be a completely bonkers move for scum. I don't see them being scum even on a three-person team.
I want to lynch TricMagic or Hector today. Failing that, I could see lynching sofanthiel or ToonyMan, but I think that would be a bad play. Lynching anyone else would be a mistake.
I started typing this as soon as Meph's post went up and I'm still digesting everything that's come since. I'm wary of accepting whatever info hector and CM are pushing since MS/Hector/CM is a plausible scumteam. I'm leaning slightly more toward lynching Hector now given the Snowkiller push and CM team-up; I'm not sure he's scummier than Tric, but he'd give us more information.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 12:55:48 pm
I'm almost certain Caz and Elephant can't be mafia because they bussed Max super hard there.
Max could have saved himself by tying with Hector, but Max said he was going to be away for End of Day which looks genuine here since he was in fact away for day end and didn't tie the vote to save himself.
So mafia are inside Sofanthiel, Snowkiller, Crystal, Tric, and Hector.
It's probably one of the three new players, which amusingly aligns with Caz's mastermind theory.
Tric is possible but I'm not really considering.
Hector is also possible because he'd be forced to vote Max there to look like he was actually town, but it's probably not him either.
PPE:
And then Elephant blows me out of the water with his trunk of knowledge.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 12:59:15 pm
I really don't think Sofanthiel or Snowkiller are mafia, so I have been thinking about Crystal the most.
I should consider Tric and Hector more.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 01:01:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 01:01:30 pm
Okay, since I'm guard and I was guarding sofanthiel's house last night, this would mean that sofanthiel is scum(assuming that the reason no one was killed was because the scum was under house arrest)
Eurgh it’s not sofanthiel then. I know for suresies a kill attempt was made.What does this mean?
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 01:02:16 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 01:02:32 pm
Okay in order for what I know to be useful, folks needs to claim actions.I have nothing worth claiming.
Post by: TricMagic on August 20, 2023, 01:06:19 pm
Max being mafia is just... Why. Well, hope I come back to plenty of pages to inspect. Or.......... dont. Just randomly vote and somehow hit mafia ay 1.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 01:06:41 pm
@Elephant:After how the day started I'm definitely considering Crystal over Sof and Snow but it really depends on how Hector flips. If Hector is town, it's probably Tric, Sof, or you.
I really don't think Sofanthiel or Snowkiller are mafia, so I have been thinking about Crystal the most.
I should consider Tric and Hector more.
Okay in order for what I know to be useful, folks needs to claim actions.I'm not sure I trust you enough to do that.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 01:10:05 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 01:13:48 pm
Probably not EP for the same reason, and Max was pushing for an EP elimination at day end.
Toony tied the vote, legitimately no reason to do that and hamstring your team for the rest of the game not knowing if there’s an inspect in the game, and I know Toony thinks they always get inspected.
Tric… I mean it could be they’re flying under my radar, but he pointed out the silence right at the end as being suspicious, which gives me good vibes.
This leaves newer players.
Max was trying to get me to go for sofanthiel over Snowkiller in my quest for newbie blood, which is why I prefer them now as number 1 choice. CM gets bumped up because Max could’ve just told them to participate to alleviate my suspicions, but I don’t think that’s the case.
PPE: it’s a 9 player game, guy. There’s either 2 scum, or 2 scum and a TP. We have one, and that leaves 3 eliminations to get the last one.
I’m not sure how the end of D1 doesn’t convince you I’m town, but whatevs, we can eliminate me to confirm I know what I know, but I’d rather not reveal it without knowing some other thing. /obtuse
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 01:14:22 pm
On second thought, if we're lynching you today your info is actually really valuable. OK. I protected someone last night.So does that mean that you're also guard or is there another role that allows people to protect others?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 01:14:56 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 01:16:56 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 01:17:33 pm
Yeah, knight, kill immune, I was targeted. Killer knows this, unless something else influenced their action, for example, a redirect. Could’ve got some extra use out of that but eff you guys.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 01:20:08 pm
Forget what I just said, there is another townie role who could protect others!On second thought, if we're lynching you today your info is actually really valuable. OK. I protected someone last night.So does that mean that you're also guard or is there another role that allows people to protect others?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 01:20:53 pm
So hector said he knows a kill was attempted. Assuming he is telling the truth the only possibility I see would be that he's knight(and his lack of response to my question would mean that it is obvious). This means that snowkiller is scum(neither I nor sofanthiel could be scum because I was guarding sofanthiel's house). However, I doubt that since MS wanted to lynch snowkiller unless MS is third party. So we could probably learn more information by lynching hector even if he's not the most suspicious(TricMagic).You think Snowkiller is almost certainly scum but you'd rather lynch Hector and you think TricMagic is more suspicious? What?On second thought, if we're lynching you today your info is actually really valuable. OK. I protected someone last night.So does that mean that you're also guard or is there another role that allows people to protect others?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 01:22:02 pm
Post by: TricMagic on August 20, 2023, 01:24:43 pm
I'm pretty sure it's Tric, Hector, or both. Could also be ToonyMan but I find that less likely.I can make an immediate rebuttal to your reasoning. And that's that I could have just piled on the wagon to save Max. Your reasoning is still flawed.
Likely scum:
- TricMagic: Completely bonkers even compared to his usual self. His only engagement with the game was to tag-team me, MS's foremost critic, with MS; now that MS is confirmed scum, that looks really bad. MS and ToonyMan, who are familiar with him, say that this is his town self, but MS is scum and ToonyMan could be too (or just misreading him). I think that MS was coaching him to fake his town meta.
- Hector: Posted weirdly in the back half of the day. Strange interactions with MS + shared coaching/newbie focus; kind of felt like a good cop/bad cop routine. Gets no points for voting MS because ToonyMan had already promised to do it.
Probably not scum:
- Sofanthiel: Very strange play but not unthinkable for a newbie; fewer red flags than Hector and Tric for me. Case against Hector was extremely good relative to earlier play—I think it's their own work, but if they're scum, they could've been fed it by MS. MS had to be pushed REALLY hard to vote them over Snowkiller but there are other explanations for that (wanting a lower-information lynch, not wanting to engage with someone who was actually posting). If Hector flips town, Sofanthiel looks pretty bad.
- ToonyMan: Quiet early D1. Gets only a tenth of a point for pledging to vote MS because Hector did it before they could. Vouched for both Tric and MS's play following their metas. Was extremely noncommittal about MS, pledging only to vote them D2, which is an eternity away (especially if MS's critics disappear in the meantime). Did not push to lynch a noob, unlike MS, which is a good sign if I'm right that the mafia is all vets. If Tric flips scum, the game doesn't end, and Hector flips town, Toony looks pretty bad.
- Crystallizedmire: Nearly unthinkable to me outside of a MS/Hector/CM scumteam. I could see a town!Hector correctly reading a town!CM or a scum!Hector pocketing a town!CM, but I can't see a town!Hector seeing scum!CM's late-D1 posts and going 'oh yeah they gotta be town'. Their early posts are REALLY weird if they have partners but anything's possible.
- Snowkiller: I don't know why MS would've pushed their lynch so hard if they were scum. They've given us frustratingly little to work with but that's life.
- Caz: Revived MS's wagon at a time when nobody, not even me, was actively pushing it, which would be a completely bonkers move for scum. I don't see them being scum even on a three-person team.
I want to lynch TricMagic or Hector today. Failing that, I could see lynching sofanthiel or ToonyMan, but I think that would be a bad play. Lynching anyone else would be a mistake.
I started typing this as soon as Meph's post went up and I'm still digesting everything that's come since. I'm wary of accepting whatever info hector and CM are pushing since MS/Hector/CM is a plausible scumteam. I'm leaning slightly more toward lynching Hector now given the Snowkiller push and CM team-up; I'm not sure he's scummier than Tric, but he'd give us more information.
As for Hector being scum, try again? If Hector is Scum, your parade is flying red colors this year. From the end of day vote we can rule out yourself, Caz, Hector, and probobly Toony. As annoying as they were at day end. Or wifom to make it to the end.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 01:25:34 pm
So hector said he knows a kill was attempted. Assuming he is telling the truth the only possibility I see would be that he's knight(and his lack of response to my question would mean that it is obvious). This means that snowkiller is scum(neither I nor sofanthiel could be scum because I was guarding sofanthiel's house). However, I doubt that since MS wanted to lynch snowkiller unless MS is third party. So we could probably learn more information by lynching hector even if he's not the most suspicious(TricMagic).Oh nvm, you meant that Snowkiller is scum IF Hector is telling the truth. My bad for misreading; I need to slow down a bit.On second thought, if we're lynching you today your info is actually really valuable. OK. I protected someone last night.So does that mean that you're also guard or is there another role that allows people to protect others?
Post by: TricMagic on August 20, 2023, 01:26:36 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 01:27:56 pm
I can make an immediate rebuttal to your reasoning. And that's that I could have just piled on the wagon to save Max. Your reasoning is still flawed.Yes but then it'd have been even more obvious that the two of you were a team. And I don't see how voting for MaximumSpin over HIS OWN SELF exonerates Hector when (1) he'd already committed to avoiding ties and (2) a scum!Hector would've flipped scum and thereby made MaximumSpin's alignment obvious. Voting MaximumSpin was the right move there for scum!Hector.
As for Hector being scum, try again? If Hector is Scum, your parade is flying red colors this year. From the end of day vote we can rule out yourself, Caz, Hector, and probobly Toony. As annoying as they were at day end. Or wifom to make it to the end.
... Yeah, reading that post again, what the ell Elpehant? Hector's vote was on Max for near the entire day. (If I remember correctly.)I'm 90% sure it wasn't but I will check.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 01:28:23 pm
Post by: TricMagic on August 20, 2023, 01:30:15 pm
Also, if it actually is Snowkiller this will be a short game.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 01:32:20 pm
Looking back on it now, lynching hector is probably a bad decision. However, my main reason for voting out hector is to see whether or not he is telling the truth about being knight. This would confirm that there was an attack on night 1. Also, I just realized that lynching hector can't actually confirm or deny snowkiller being scum(since it is just as likely that 2 veterans are scum). So let's vote TricMagic since sacrificing 1 probably townie life for the sake of information is probably a bad idea.So hector said he knows a kill was attempted. Assuming he is telling the truth the only possibility I see would be that he's knight(and his lack of response to my question would mean that it is obvious). This means that snowkiller is scum(neither I nor sofanthiel could be scum because I was guarding sofanthiel's house). However, I doubt that since MS wanted to lynch snowkiller unless MS is third party. So we could probably learn more information by lynching hector even if he's not the most suspicious(TricMagic).You think Snowkiller is almost certainly scum but you'd rather lynch Hector and you think TricMagic is more suspicious? What?On second thought, if we're lynching you today your info is actually really valuable. OK. I protected someone last night.So does that mean that you're also guard or is there another role that allows people to protect others?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 01:40:07 pm
Ignore that then..But why would MaximumSpin have pushed Snowkiller so hard over sofanthiel if Snowkiller was scum? Wouldn't he have just taken the easy mislynch? And even if we're looking at MS/Snowkiller/sofanthiel, a team I find really unlikely, why would he have wanted to light a fire under his own partner?
Also, if it actually is Snowkiller this will be a short game.
You seem a little desperate to back away from Hector here. TricMagic could obviously also be a townie and will provide less information if lynched; how would lynching him be advantageous?Looking back on it now, lynching hector is probably a bad decision. However, my main reason for voting out hector is to see whether or not he is telling the truth about being knight. This would confirm that there was an attack on night 1. Also, I just realized that lynching hector can't actually confirm or deny snowkiller being scum(since it is just as likely that 2 veterans are scum). So let's vote TricMagic since sacrificing 1 probably townie life for the sake of information is probably a bad idea.So hector said he knows a kill was attempted. Assuming he is telling the truth the only possibility I see would be that he's knight(and his lack of response to my question would mean that it is obvious). This means that snowkiller is scum(neither I nor sofanthiel could be scum because I was guarding sofanthiel's house). However, I doubt that since MS wanted to lynch snowkiller unless MS is third party. So we could probably learn more information by lynching hector even if he's not the most suspicious(TricMagic).You think Snowkiller is almost certainly scum but you'd rather lynch Hector and you think TricMagic is more suspicious? What?On second thought, if we're lynching you today your info is actually really valuable. OK. I protected someone last night.So does that mean that you're also guard or is there another role that allows people to protect others?
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 01:43:20 pm
Will be a bit busy today.Max being voted out wasn't exactly "random". It was a passionate decision.
Max being mafia is just... Why. Well, hope I come back to plenty of pages to inspect. Or.......... dont. Just randomly vote and somehow hit mafia ay 1.
Well CM is suddenly Columbo so whatever.Hmm, that's two protectors and a knight. That's a lot of protection.
Yeah, knight, kill immune, I was targeted. Killer knows this, unless something else influenced their action, for example, a redirect. Could’ve got some extra use out of that but eff you guys.
This makes sense from your perspective: You think it's probably not Sofanthiel or Crystal because Crystal claims guarding Sofan, unless Sofan can't confirm being roleblocked. Which is why you want Snowkiller.
I think Tric makes more sense than Snowkiller here, unless you doubt Crystal's guard claim.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 01:47:52 pm
We have room for error here though, part of the reason I was interested in claiming. We have a guard claim so we can just eliminate one and block the other if we want to be boring and solve the game mechanically.
Post by: TricMagic on August 20, 2023, 01:52:13 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 01:55:42 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 02:03:32 pm
My reason for lynching TricMagic is that they seem more suspicious than hector since I could vaguely recall Tric and MS voting the same player. Another reason is that if hector is actually scum then why would they lie about being attacked? The one possible explanation I could think of is that the protection you made prevented hector from killing anyone.You seem a little desperate to back away from Hector here. TricMagic could obviously also be a townie and will provide less information if lynched; how would lynching him be advantageous?Looking back on it now, lynching hector is probably a bad decision. However, my main reason for voting out hector is to see whether or not he is telling the truth about being knight. This would confirm that there was an attack on night 1. Also, I just realized that lynching hector can't actually confirm or deny snowkiller being scum(since it is just as likely that 2 veterans are scum). So let's vote TricMagic since sacrificing 1 probably townie life for the sake of information is probably a bad idea.So hector said he knows a kill was attempted. Assuming he is telling the truth the only possibility I see would be that he's knight(and his lack of response to my question would mean that it is obvious). This means that snowkiller is scum(neither I nor sofanthiel could be scum because I was guarding sofanthiel's house). However, I doubt that since MS wanted to lynch snowkiller unless MS is third party. So we could probably learn more information by lynching hector even if he's not the most suspicious(TricMagic).You think Snowkiller is almost certainly scum but you'd rather lynch Hector and you think TricMagic is more suspicious? What?On second thought, if we're lynching you today your info is actually really valuable. OK. I protected someone last night.So does that mean that you're also guard or is there another role that allows people to protect others?
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:04:59 pm
Why does Tric make more sense than Snowkiller to you Toony?It doesn't.
I've given it some thought after Elephant talked about Tric and I think Tric is still very town.
I also think you're probably town because otherwise you decided to no-kill which seems crazy to me. Unless you tried to kill Elephant's target. I think Crystal would have died if you tried to kill Sofanthiel and they're being truthful.
So Snowkiller does make the most sense here. In a lame POE way.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:06:55 pm
Another reason is that if hector is actually scum then why would they lie about being attacked? The one possible explanation I could think of is that the protection you made prevented hector from killing anyone.Hector probably isn't mafia unless they tried to kill Elephant's target.
Elephant doesn't want to say who they are because they know that player is town.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:09:15 pm
What do you mean by this?Another reason is that if hector is actually scum then why would they lie about being attacked? The one possible explanation I could think of is that the protection you made prevented hector from killing anyone.Hector probably isn't mafia unless they tried to kill Elephant's target.
Elephant doesn't want to say who they are because they know that player is town.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 02:10:58 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:16:05 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:16:54 pm
No one died, including Crystal, therefore:What do you mean by this?Another reason is that if hector is actually scum then why would they lie about being attacked? The one possible explanation I could think of is that the protection you made prevented hector from killing anyone.Hector probably isn't mafia unless they tried to kill Elephant's target.
Elephant doesn't want to say who they are because they know that player is town.
1. Mafia no-killed, this means Hector is lying and mafia.
2. Hector is telling the truth and was attacked, this means Hector is town and mafia is probably Snowkiller by POE.
3. Hector is lying and actually tried to kill Elephant's target, this means Elephant's protected town.
So to correct my logic, Elephant knows their target is town if Hector is lying.
I just want to know what the person who started the Maximum Spin train thought of their playstyle/wording to earn them a vote in the first place. That was a great D1 read.Is this an admission of guilt?
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:18:30 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 02:18:55 pm
I can't believe I phrased it that way. Ye, that was what I meant to seeAnother reason is that if hector is actually scum then why would they lie about being attacked? The one possible explanation I could think of is that the protection you made prevented hector from killing anyone.Hector probably isn't mafia unless they tried to kill Elephant's target.
Elephant doesn't want to say who they are because they know that player is town.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 02:19:38 pm
Pretty sure it was Caz.can you elaborate?
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 02:20:26 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:20:42 pm
Pretty sure it was Caz.I also think it was Caz, surprising no one.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:25:07 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:25:58 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:26:10 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 02:28:04 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:32:31 pm
I thought the collective IQ would be higher in this game. How about asking why mafia no-killed? Sure, I'm no veteran of this genre (far from it), but I'm pretty sure mafia always kills at night unless they're blocked from doing so. I really don't get why I'm seeing "ahh, there was no kill last night, therefore, x or y player is mafia." That literally makes zero sense. How about you try to see if a town role is out here blocking people, OR go through the gamut of reasons why mafia would skip? There's an idea, I'd think.
I’ve already said I was targeted. If you have proof otherwise, do share.
You can vote for yourself, but it’s a bit pointless if you’re town.
Snowkiller
We can eliminate me if you want to be completely sure I’m not lying though. I’m cool with that, so long as CM guards Snowkiller and they are eliminated D3.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:34:07 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 02:34:17 pm
VOTE: Snowkiller
REASON: If I'm mafia, the game is that much easier to win. And seeing as how we don't have a common goal, why not get the low-hanging fruit out of the game? Gives the vets more room.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 02:35:41 pm
My target was Snowkiller.Assuming Elephant parade is telling the truth and hector did attack snowkiller, why would hector go after snowkiller? To me at least, it would be more plausible for hector to kill sofanthiel. My only plausible explanation is that MS voted snowkiller and snowkiller is thus more likely to be seen as townie than sofanthiel which doesn't make sense when you realize that MS also voted sofanthiel.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:37:49 pm
I don't understand why Hector would go for Snowkiller either, but I don't think it's impossible.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:38:41 pm
Slightly bothered by EP given that the only way to remove me from the game is the vote but if they did protect Snowkiller it makes sense to them.
PPE: I wouldn’t kill either of them because. I’d kill Caz or Toony because they were the most obvious town players by the end of D1, but that is just WIFOM *shrug*
Why did you decide to protect Snowkiller, of all the players in the game EP?
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 02:39:18 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 02:40:03 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:40:44 pm
Unless I'm missing something, Hector could've also gone after sofanthiel, not that that would have made much sense. He may have targeted Snowkiller on the basis of Maximumspin's push on him making him look very strongly town and his uselessness making him an unlikely protection target, unlike myself and Caz. There is an unlikely but plausible second reason for Hector to target Snowkiller that I don't intend to explain.My target was Snowkiller.Assuming Elephant parade is telling the truth and hector did attack snowkiller, why would hector go after snowkiller? To me at least, it would be more plausible for hector to kill sofanthiel. My only plausible explanation is that MS voted snowkiller and snowkiller is thus more likely to be seen as townie than sofanthiel which doesn't make sense when you realize that MS also voted sofanthiel.
You’re not low-hanging fruit, else you would’ve been eliminated D1.See above for why Snowkiller might be targeted.
Slightly bothered by EP given that the only way to remove me from the game is the vote but if they did protect Snowkiller it makes sense to them.
PPE: I wouldn’t kill either of them because. I’d kill Caz or Toony because they were the most obvious town players by the end of D1, but that is just WIFOM *shrug*
Why did you decide to protect Snowkiller, of all the players in the game EP?
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 02:44:02 pm
I honestly want elephant gone
Another thing I don't entirely get is Toony's sudden switch to Max. As I understand it, they didn't want to vote hector purely for sentimental reasons, but most fascinating to me is hector's reaction:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This almost seems like hector having to vote for his partner, although I'll be the first to admit that a tie was very easy in that situation.
I will quickly just confirm that the following is true, clearing CM:
I'm guard and I was guarding sofanthiel's house last night
I don't think this does clear me, however, since there could still be 2 scum remaining (this technically doesn't clear CM either, as we could both be secretly creative, unavoidable mafia).
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:47:00 pm
I’m also curious why I’d hamstring myself by eliminating my teammate in D1 instead of going for the no lunch and claiming internet issues or whatever, given the timescale left at the end of the day.
PPE: I’m a knight brah, I can’t do anything at night other than be hardcore and dodge your goddamn arrows.
PPE2: Jesus h man you’re throwing around speculation as to my night actions. Unless Meph is being very weird, there’s one scum left, meaning at least two of me you and CM are telling the truth. That means, unless CM is scum, they can block me in the night if Snowkiller isn’t scum, or Snowkiller if I’m not scum.
PPE3: CM is assuredly telling the truth then.
What did Snowkiller do in the night, I think is a good question to ask right now.
Post by: Caz on August 20, 2023, 02:48:27 pm
As far as I see it, sofanthiel is clear. I think Hector is the most likely, but we have a free lynch today anyway.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 02:50:31 pm
Eh? What's this? Why do I get the train when I vote someone else, and ignored for the lynch when I vote myself?
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:50:51 pm
hector
If you lose this goddamn game after eliminating scum D1 I will be furious.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:51:33 pm
What is "PPE"?
Eh? What's this? Why do I get the train when I vote someone else, and ignored for the lynch when I vote myself?
Pre-post edit. If someone posts and you want to respond to it before you’ve finished your own, PPE.
What did you do N1?
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 02:51:51 pm
why would hector go after snowkiller?
Maybe hector isn't playing rationally? What if there's a chance he was affected by the mysterious entity that goes by the name "Emotions"...
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 02:52:10 pm
You're right about how hector could've possibly tried to go after sofanthiel, but for some reason didn't because I'm evidently still alive(possibly because he isn't lying or for another unknown reason).Unless I'm missing something, Hector could've also gone after sofanthiel, not that that would have made much sense. He may have targeted Snowkiller on the basis of Maximumspin's push on him making him look very strongly town and his uselessness making him an unlikely protection target, unlike myself and Caz. There is an unlikely but plausible second reason for Hector to target Snowkiller that I don't intend to explain.My target was Snowkiller.Assuming Elephant parade is telling the truth and hector did attack snowkiller, why would hector go after snowkiller? To me at least, it would be more plausible for hector to kill sofanthiel. My only plausible explanation is that MS voted snowkiller and snowkiller is thus more likely to be seen as townie than sofanthiel which doesn't make sense when you realize that MS also voted sofanthiel.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:53:23 pm
Too many becauses. Wouldn’t kill either of them because there were townier people, basically.My secret second reason fully explains why you would target Snowkiller.
Quote
I’m also curious why I’d hamstring myself by eliminating my teammate in D1 instead of going for the no lunch and claiming internet issues or whatever, given the timescale left at the end of the day.Because you knew Toonyman was going to vote MS at the last second and you wanted the towncred for doing it yourself rather than the scumcred for not doing it despite claiming to hate no lynches so much you'd sooner lynch yourself. ToonyMan actually did post before the deadline, so he would've.
PPE: I’m a knight brah, I can’t do anything at night other than be hardcore and dodge your goddamn arrows.
PPE2: Jesus h man you’re throwing around speculation as to my night actions. Unless Meph is being very weird, there’s one scum left, meaning at least two of me you and CM are telling the truth. That means, unless CM is scum, they can block me in the night if Snowkiller isn’t scum, or Snowkiller if I’m not scum.
PPE3: CM is assuredly telling the truth then.
What did Snowkiller do in the night, I think is a good question to ask right now.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:54:19 pm
PPE:TOONYMAN HAD ALREADY VOTED MAX YOU BUFFOON
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:54:54 pm
I did not realize that at the time and have not realized it at any point since
Oh my god
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:55:18 pm
Just vote Snowkiller :p
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 02:55:43 pm
After post edit: you're right there are multiple reasons for why hector didn't go after sofanthiel.You're right about how hector could've possibly tried to go after sofanthiel, but for some reason didn't because I'm evidently still alive(possibly because he isn't lying or for another unknown reason).Unless I'm missing something, Hector could've also gone after sofanthiel, not that that would have made much sense. He may have targeted Snowkiller on the basis of Maximumspin's push on him making him look very strongly town and his uselessness making him an unlikely protection target, unlike myself and Caz. There is an unlikely but plausible second reason for Hector to target Snowkiller that I don't intend to explain.My target was Snowkiller.Assuming Elephant parade is telling the truth and hector did attack snowkiller, why would hector go after snowkiller? To me at least, it would be more plausible for hector to kill sofanthiel. My only plausible explanation is that MS voted snowkiller and snowkiller is thus more likely to be seen as townie than sofanthiel which doesn't make sense when you realize that MS also voted sofanthiel.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:56:07 pm
That's a really good point. Hector could have just...tied the vote to keep Max alive. Sure it looks awful, but it's probably a better plan than this suffering today.
Snowkiller voting themselves looks pretty serious though. They could be given up scum, which would explain the congratulations on the Max read.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 02:56:23 pm
EP.No. They basically can't be scum.
Just vote Snowkiller :p
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:57:53 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:58:30 pm
If someone can prove to me I wasn’t targeted I will never play mafia in this forum ever again.
Or I’ll just… we’ll I’m already voting for myself, but yeah.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 02:58:38 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 02:58:54 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:00:11 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:01:49 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:02:45 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:03:30 pm
I’m a knight!
I’m only voting for myself so Snowkiller gets eliminated tomorrow! I’d rather do it now!
Snowkiller tell us what you did in the night, for the third time.
Ironically.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:04:26 pm
Wait even better, Hector didn't even need to do anything for the vote to remain tied right? So just "disappearing" would have definitely been the best plan. He purposely acted to have a lynch happen, which resulted in Max's death.The timing there still would've been pretty sus and MS might've been on the docket the next day anyway. But I agree that he looks much better now.
I don't think you can suspect Hector here unless you suspect me just as much.I actually do suspect you a fair bit now that CM is in the clear, sofanthiel is cleared-ish, Tric is acting less crazy, and you're defending Hector. If Hector flips scum you're next
How can they not be scum?Snowkiller and MS shouldn't be on a three-person scumteam together. If they were a two-person scumteam, the way MS treated Snowkiller at the end of the day is very strange.
Elephant Parade: How can I "not" be scum when I was (allegedly) scum on D1? Make up your mind.What? I never said I thought you were scum.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:06:27 pm
I forgot what else I wanted to say.
Why do you think there’s 3 scum in a 9 player game?
Oh that was it, Snowkiller still isn’t saying what they did in the night. Why do you think that is?
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:06:48 pm
Snowkiller!I'll only answer questions if you vote for my lynching. Otherwise, I will continue to ignore you.
I’m a knight!
I’m only voting for myself so Snowkiller gets eliminated tomorrow! I’d rather do it now!
Snowkiller tell us what you did in the night, for the third time.
Ironically.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:07:14 pm
Bring it Dumbo. I think I have to side with Honorable Knight Hector here.I don't think you can suspect Hector here unless you suspect me just as much.I actually do suspect you a fair bit now that CM is in the clear, sofanthiel is cleared-ish, Tric is acting less crazy, and you're defending Hector. If Hector flips scum you're next
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:07:56 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:08:39 pm
I'm here Hector. Here for yoooou
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:10:18 pm
Just answer it anyway, I’m not interested in playing games.Then keep your mouth shut and quit talking to me.
I believe that's, in the words of the shiphand NPCs in World of Warships, "problem solved, sir!"
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:10:47 pm
Snowkiller
I should probably learn to not ignore Max quite so much. Or just listen to the little voice that says “hey why is he doing that…”
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:11:45 pm
How did Max treat Snowkiller at the end of the day? The point was to keep me pushing sofanthiel as the “not really participating despite being given plenty of opportunity” lynch, because Snowkiller is their partner.Max pushed Snowkiller's lynch over Sofanthiel's pretty hard. I don't buy that they would do that just so you'd be a contrarian and vote Sofanthiel.
I forgot what else I wanted to say.
Why do you think there’s 3 scum in a 9 player game?
Oh that was it, Snowkiller still isn’t saying what they did in the night. Why do you think that is?
I don't. But I also don't think MaximumSpin would bus his only ally for no reason at the end of D1, even if said ally was completely useless.
Because they're trolling.
Because you're scum together, eh?Bring it Dumbo. I think I have to side with Honorable Knight Hector here.I don't think you can suspect Hector here unless you suspect me just as much.I actually do suspect you a fair bit now that CM is in the clear, sofanthiel is cleared-ish, Tric is acting less crazy, and you're defending Hector. If Hector flips scum you're next
Snowkiller, for the love of God, if you are the town I sincerely believe you to be, vote Hector.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 03:13:37 pm
Snowkiller voting themselves looks pretty serious though. They could be given up scum, which would explain the congratulations on the Max read.
Snow is a newbie and is also currently pretty agitated. People vote for themselves as histrionics quite often, especially when they feel like proving that they were actually right all along, but now I'm dead, so it's too late anyway.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:14:16 pm
Do you think yesterday that either sofanthiel or Snowkiller were ever likely to be lynched?
If I got lynched I’d flip town, people might follow my suspicions, which would mean sofanthiel and Snowkiller. Max is savvy, he was setting that up for the future because it looked like I was getting lynched.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:15:44 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:17:31 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:18:49 pm
Snowkiller, for the love of God, if you are the town I sincerely believe you to be, vote Hector.I'm not going to do that for two reasons...
1) You ignored my question.
2) Your boy Maximum Spin was playing around all game (like hector13), and only dropped the bs when he was voted. Keep in mind, I almost got hoed several times. One for being new, which I can totally help. Because it's my fault I didn't generate the spark that moved me to play mafia at an earlier date. Makes sense to someone on some planet, I suppose.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:19:38 pm
EPYeah it actually looked pretty likely that Sofanthiel would die at the end. I'm pretty sure he was sitting at 3 votes prior to the final flurry of activity. Your explanation is plausible and I think it's a 50/50 that you'll flip town but I still would rather you died than Snowkiller, who will almost certainly flip town because [redacted].
Do you think yesterday that either sofanthiel or Snowkiller were ever likely to be lynched?
If I got lynched I’d flip town, people might follow my suspicions, which would mean sofanthiel and Snowkiller. Max is savvy, he was setting that up for the future because it looked like I was getting lynched.
In a 9 player, 2 scum game they only need 3 mislynches to win, assuming no issues with night kills.Yeah but he already had me and Caz on his case and Toony gesturing at joining us D2. He might've had even worse luck as soloscum than Snowkiller.
I’m beginning to think EP may be TP, my flavour… could be read to imply that, if I were really paranoid, but that’s an issue for another day.Sigh.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:20:06 pm
I am the worst possible hand;
I am Sisyphus pushing the boulder;
I am Snowkiller's Guardian Angel. I can protect Snowkiller, and only Snowkiller, and I lose the game if he dies, which he appears to be dead set on doing. I don't think MaximumSpin would've bussed Snowkiller there if they were a two-man team and I don't think Meph would make a setup with three scum and a scum GA.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:21:33 pm
Pfff, hahaha. I don't even know what to say to that.Because you're scum together, eh?Bring it Dumbo. I think I have to side with Honorable Knight Hector here.I don't think you can suspect Hector here unless you suspect me just as much.I actually do suspect you a fair bit now that CM is in the clear, sofanthiel is cleared-ish, Tric is acting less crazy, and you're defending Hector. If Hector flips scum you're next
I’m beginning to think EP may be TP, my flavour… could be read to imply that, if I were really paranoid, but that’s an issue for another day.But nobody claimed survivor on D1.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:22:23 pm
I am the dark divinity;Oooooo interesting dynamic there, how evil of Meph!
I am the worst possible hand;
I am Sisyphus pushing the boulder;
I am Snowkiller's Guardian Angel. I can protect Snowkiller, and only Snowkiller, and I lose the game if he dies, which he appears to be dead set on doing. I don't think MaximumSpin would've bussed Snowkiller there if they were a two-man team and I don't think Meph would make a setup with three scum and a scum GA.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:23:30 pm
PPE: I absolutely didn’t suspect you because you were new but because you weren’t making any effort to find scum or town. That’s scum 101, and it’s very easy to do. CM is new and they made an effort, sofanthiel is new and, while wasting the day doing nothing before coming up with a good case, eventually made an effort. You were the only one that didn’t.
PPE2: Hmm. I don’t like that but if it’s a fakeclaim it’s a pretty good one.
Is claiming survivor a sensible thing? I always thought we hated them. I mean I hate them but I have history.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:25:23 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:26:49 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 03:28:31 pm
If it's decided, we can also vote to shorten the day.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:28:58 pm
Similarly with Toony. Why tie the vote up at day end when your partner can be voted by the other candidate easy peasy? Can’t be discounted again, but… unlikely.
CM guarded sofanthiel, confirmed by sofanthiel. This means neither performed the kill on me.
It can only be Snowkiller, EP, or Tric, from my perspective.
EP claimed guarding Snowkiller, presumably only a protect? Not a jailkeep type thing?
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:29:29 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:29:51 pm
Snowkiller I’m voting you, can you tell me what you did in the night please?
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:30:07 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:31:35 pm
Is claiming survivor a sensible thing? I always thought we hated them. I mean I hate them but I have history.I'm making fun of 4mask, in Supernatural 10 they (fake)claimed Survivor on D1.
What do we do then? I don't think Elephant is lying. It doesn't prove Snowkiller is town or mafia, and I'm not sure if Meph would tie the GA to a town or mafia member. Snowkiller can't be mafia unless he no-killed. Hector can't be mafia unless he no-killed or tried to kill Snowkiller.
I don't think MaximumSpin would've bussed Snowkiller there if they were a two-man team and I don't think Meph would make a setup with three scum and a scum GA.I don't think Hector would have voted Max if it's a two-man team. And I think it would be ridiculous for this game to have a three mafia team PLUS a guardian angel, right?
PPE:
SnowkillerIt's not, hold on.
If it's decided, we can also vote to shorten the day.
@Hector:
How confident are you Tric is town? I'm pretty confident myself.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:31:50 pm
Okay.I don't see no red, young homie.
Snowkiller I’m voting you, can you tell me what you did in the night please?
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:33:20 pm
Snowkiller can't be mafia unless he no-killed.Correction: Snowkiller can't be mafia unless he tried to kill Hector. Because Hector claims being attacked.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:33:26 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:34:43 pm
If I'm an angel I must be Lucifer, because I don't see how else I could possibly deserve this, good God.I'm sorry Elephant. If Snowkiller is mafia you got dealt a terrible hand this game.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 03:36:13 pm
Current vote tally please, GM.
Code: [Select]
TricMagic: 1: Crystalizedmire
hector13: 2: Elephant Parade, Caz
Snowkiller: 5: TricMagic, Snowkiller, ToonyMan, hector13, sofanthiel
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:36:27 pm
Okay.I don't see no red, young homie.
Snowkiller I’m voting you, can you tell me what you did in the night please?
I’m probably older than you, whippersnapper!
I was at least right about two out of three of the newbies…
Snowkiller
I should probably learn to not ignore Max quite so much. Or just listen to the little voice that says “hey why is he doing that…”
Did it ages ago.
@Toony honestly Tric has been flying under the radar. I’ve not had any concerns with him though.
Then again I also thought the same of Max, but Max is so opaque at times.
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 03:37:24 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:38:35 pm
Insert Thanos "all is as it should be" meme here.Current vote tally please, GM.Code: [Select]TricMagic: 1: Crystalizedmire
hector13: 2: Elephant Parade, Caz
Snowkiller: 5: TricMagic, Snowkiller, ToonyMan, hector13, sofanthiel
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:39:44 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:43:04 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 03:43:06 pm
It seems unlikely that MS and Snowkiller or MS and hector are scum which would mean MS is third party(I'm pretty sure we don't have confirmation that fairies are this version's mafia) or (more likely) MS and TricMagic are togetherFey are probably the mafia since Max was a Fey Illusionist. This appears to be a Supernatural game where the mafia team have town power roles. Look at Supernatural 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59269.msg1328001#msg1328001) as an example: that had Werewolves sharing town power roles.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:44:34 pm
Okay the biggest concern I had with Tric was the silence thing at the end of D1, but why bring it up if you’re scum? Just coast the day away.
Tric doesn’t showboat like that as scum I think.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:44:44 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 03:45:38 pm
Like I said at the start of today, I think Max coached Tric into faking his town meta.Okay the biggest concern I had with Tric was the silence thing at the end of D1, but why bring it up if you’re scum? Just coast the day away.Tric doesn’t showboat like that as scum I think.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:46:42 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:47:35 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 03:49:46 pm
We can vote to end the day early? That's new.It requires 75% of players to agree shortening it
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 03:50:53 pm
PPE: never mind.
I feel bad for EP because Snowkiller just feels right. Their behaviour doesn’t help that.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 03:52:37 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 03:57:38 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 04:00:07 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 04:01:18 pm
I'm still trying to figure this out because the whole thing is a bit hard to follow. Does hector being town mean Snow has to be mafia, and vice-reversa? If so, I'm inclined to vote hector first since EP also loses in the case that we're wrong about Snow. Alternatively, is it possible that someone was stopped by Crystal while attempting to assassinate me, or would CM be informed of that?If someone tried to kill you, I would be dead since guards are probably just as flimsy as regular townies(I could find no instances where it is mentioned that guards are extra tough)
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 04:04:03 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 04:04:13 pm
What I mean by this is that if someone tried kill my target, I would die insteadI'm still trying to figure this out because the whole thing is a bit hard to follow. Does hector being town mean Snow has to be mafia, and vice-reversa? If so, I'm inclined to vote hector first since EP also loses in the case that we're wrong about Snow. Alternatively, is it possible that someone was stopped by Crystal while attempting to assassinate me, or would CM be informed of that?If someone tried to kill you, I would be dead since guards are probably just as flimsy as regular townies(I could find no instances where it is mentioned that guards are extra tough)
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 04:06:15 pm
CM did his stuff to you so neither of you are mafia.
EP is claiming Snowkiller’s guardian angel.
Caz and Toony didn’t have to do the things they did re:eliminating Max D1, so I find it hard to believe they’re scum.
That leaves Snowkiller and Tric as our targets, at least from my perspective.
PPE: see there’s no reason for Snowkiller to do this if they’re town, they still win with everyone else and it’s basically a foregone conclusion that town will win at this point, unless the other scum is embedded in the town core.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 04:10:49 pm
What did you do in the night?
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 04:18:06 pm
PPE: see there’s no reason for Snowkiller to do this if they’re town, they still win with everyone else and it’s basically a foregone conclusion that town will win at this point, unless the other scum is embedded in the town core.I figured you were larping your idiocy at first, but I'm convinced you're not playing around and you're actually this stupid. Since you're slow, I'll make it plainly clear to you: after night ended, I said I wanted to know who started the Maximum Spin train and how they managed to pull that read off. To which, you and others said I was mafia for saying that, then you slid back into your trolling niche and continued on. Now, I said that since you wanted to roflcopter post instead of try to figure this game out (and also vote me based on something foolish), I was going to vote myself out while you roflpost amongst each other.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 04:22:46 pm
If you’re town, you’re doing a very bad job of convincing us of that fact.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 04:31:58 pm
If you’re town, you’re doing a very bad job of convincing us of that fact.What language do you speak? English doesn't seem to be it. I said several times to vote me out the game if that's your take. You get the lynch, you get the truth, and you get me out. Those are the things you get, can you dig it? Stop whining and being a Barbie world tier diva about what I'm telling you. I asked for reasoning about things and you played dumb. You did the same shit in D1 before Maximum Spin got hoed before you got verbally bapped and corrected for your weird behavior. I'm not gon' talk to you again about the same topic because we're some grown men and shouldn't have to have baby's first English book to re-convey a point I've made several times.
Vote for me or don't, but don't build this tower of lies where I didn't contribute, when it's clear I've been asking questions about the game from jump street. Ya dig?
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2023, 04:32:28 pm
Hector13: 1: Caz
Snowkiller: 4: Hector13, Snowkiller, ToonyMan, TricMagic
TricMagic: 2: Crystalizedmire, Elephant Parade
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 04:38:43 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 04:43:27 pm
If you’re town, you’re doing a very bad job of convincing us of that fact.What language do you speak? English doesn't seem to be it. I said several times to vote me out the game if that's your take. You get the lynch, you get the truth, and you get me out. Those are the things you get, can you dig it? Stop whining and being a Barbie world tier diva about what I'm telling you. I asked for reasoning about things and you played dumb. You did the same shit in D1 before Maximum Spin got hoed before you got verbally bapped and corrected for your weird behavior. I'm not gon' talk to you again about the same topic because we're some grown men and shouldn't have to have baby's first English book to re-convey a point I've made several times.
Vote for me or don't, but don't build this tower of lies where I didn't contribute, when it's clear I've been asking questions about the game from jump street. Ya dig?
Appeals to emotion don’t work.
Unless your me doing it to Toony, apparently.
We’re also, thankfully, moving toward a sub-forum culture in which acting unpleasantly is frowned upon, so if you’re upset, go off and do something pleasant and then come back, if you want, and re-assess things then. It’s a game, it’s meant to be fun, so… don’t take it too seriously.
Says me, the one who got all shouty earlier taking the game too seriously.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 04:47:21 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 05:06:17 pm
Post by: Caz on August 20, 2023, 05:09:15 pm
I am Snowkiller's Guardian Angel. I can protect Snowkiller, and only Snowkiller, and I lose the game if he dies, which he appears to be dead set on doing. I don't think MaximumSpin would've bussed Snowkiller there if they were a two-man team and I don't think Meph would make a setup with three scum and a scum GA.
Does your role show you Snowkillers alignment?
Post by: Caz on August 20, 2023, 05:09:42 pm
If you’re town, you’re doing a very bad job of convincing us of that fact.What language do you speak? English doesn't seem to be it. I said several times to vote me out the game if that's your take. You get the lynch, you get the truth, and you get me out. Those are the things you get, can you dig it? Stop whining and being a Barbie world tier diva about what I'm telling you. I asked for reasoning about things and you played dumb. You did the same shit in D1 before Maximum Spin got hoed before you got verbally bapped and corrected for your weird behavior. I'm not gon' talk to you again about the same topic because we're some grown men and shouldn't have to have baby's first English book to re-convey a point I've made several times.
Vote for me or don't, but don't build this tower of lies where I didn't contribute, when it's clear I've been asking questions about the game from jump street. Ya dig?
...Rude.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 05:10:06 pm
There is much, much worse in the history of the forum, but yeah, it’s a game and meant to be fun so… remember there are other people behind the screen names.
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2023, 05:12:43 pm
Like I said, I'm not posting for the rest of the gameday. Vote me or don't, but otherwise, you need to shut the hell up about this topic. Don't give a shit about "sub-forum culture" or whatever you're prattling on about. You've got two options. Pick one and stay in your lane. End of.
Putting on my Sub-Forum moderator hat:
The Mafia sub-forum is generally more willing to allow things like attacks on another players than is normally allowed by Toady on the bay 12 forums. But do note that things like directly insulting other players technically violates the overall Forum Guidelines (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=38442.0). Being chill and respecting the other players is generally a good idea.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 05:13:19 pm
No.I am Snowkiller's Guardian Angel. I can protect Snowkiller, and only Snowkiller, and I lose the game if he dies, which he appears to be dead set on doing. I don't think MaximumSpin would've bussed Snowkiller there if they were a two-man team and I don't think Meph would make a setup with three scum and a scum GA.
Does your role show you Snowkillers alignment?
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 05:17:46 pm
remember there are other people behind the screen names....or is that what they want you to think!
Post by: Caz on August 20, 2023, 05:17:52 pm
I want to hear from Tric before day's end though, and I still think Hector's claim is suspicious. If he's lying, softhaniel is clear, or it could just be softhaniel if it isn't Snowkiller. Regardless due to the lack of kill, we have an extra day to work with.
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 05:19:32 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 05:21:08 pm
Does your role show you Snowkillers alignment?
Regardless of whether it does or doesn't, we can't trust EP to truthfully disclose that information.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 05:26:21 pm
If my PM said he was town, I would've said so without being asked. If it said he was scum, I wouldn't have spent the whole game scumhunting. From your perspective I could've been faking it, but I successfully outed MS.Does your role show you Snowkillers alignment?
Regardless of whether it does or doesn't, we can't trust EP to truthfully disclose that information.
---
Consider that if you lynch Snowkiller, you will eliminate me as well, possibly leading to LYLO tomorrow (since a three-scum team is in the realm of possibility if my protege is town).
Post by: Caz on August 20, 2023, 05:29:31 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 05:32:54 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 05:33:13 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 05:36:16 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 05:38:01 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 05:45:30 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 05:50:07 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 05:51:07 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 05:52:41 pm
Well, except for having Snowkiller around for another day.While I accidentally let the cat out of the bag and since I can't edit it's the final countdown, remember what I said this whole game: vote me and you don't have to whine. I'm not even sure what the procedure is for self-lynching other than just dipping and not playing, but I want to learn the game and would rather not do that.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 05:53:06 pm
mafia protip #1: play to win, not to loseWell, except for having Snowkiller around for another day.While I accidentally let the cat out of the bag and since I can't edit it's the final countdown, remember what I said this whole game: vote me and you don't have to whine. I'm not even sure what the procedure is for self-lynching other than just dipping and not playing, but I want to learn the game and would rather not do that.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 05:53:14 pm
I don't see how you can possibly win Elephant.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 05:54:05 pm
I'm down for wacky plays, but prolonging the game for no reason seems kind of pointless in this scenario.I win if I'm right and TricMagic/Hector flips scum
I don't see how you can possibly win Elephant.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 05:54:39 pm
I mean, it's whatever. I think your D1 play was convincing enough and you should have fought harder today against Hector.Well, except for having Snowkiller around for another day.While I accidentally let the cat out of the bag and since I can't edit it's the final countdown, remember what I said this whole game: vote me and you don't have to whine. I'm not even sure what the procedure is for self-lynching other than just dipping and not playing, but I want to learn the game and would rather not do that.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 05:58:35 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 06:00:19 pm
Admittedly I’d also flip town and you’d probably be next, but you had an ally in EP the rest of the way, even if you didn’t know it.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 06:03:21 pm
I see a lot of new players. It's hard starting as mafia. I think you're looking down on yourself too much. As someone who's seen many players and played many games I think you were doing a good job. That's a serious compliment.
PPE:
Hector is right. You had hidden backup from Elephant even if you weren't aware of that.
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 06:06:07 pm
I'm not proud of my indecisiveness today.
Shorten
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 06:07:40 pm
Snowkiller
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 06:08:55 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 06:09:13 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 06:09:33 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 06:09:58 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 06:10:59 pm
Dude, shut the fuck up. Seriously. I hate all that fake "uwu you so good at game" shit, when starting out, a small number of you were actually answering noob questions. Oddly enough, Maximum Spin was more useful than you in that regard, because when they weren't lolposting they were giving out info and making sure newbs got themselves acclimated. Don't suck me off now that I'm rating Maximum Spin and not you. Sure, they were mafia, but I still count a few nuggets of game from their earlier posts. Yet you've done nothing but bandwagon and dick ride the whole game. Like when people started voting for Maximum Spin, suddenly, you're voting Maximum Spin. Now that they're gone and I'm self-lynching, you want to shower me in uwu. Nah, fuck that. You been scouted.
(https://i.imgur.com/DqRiqPl.png)
Shorten
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 06:12:05 pm
Snowkiller
I'm not proud of my indecisiveness today.
Shorten
Part of that is what information you have. I knew the mafia tried to kill me, which was critical in narrowing it down to Snowkiller.
All you know is CM isn’t mafia.
PPE: Jesus Christ Snowkiller it’s a game, calm the fuck down, shit happens sometimes. Max got lucky in the last game I played with him, he got unlucky in this one. Move on.
Shorten
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 06:16:41 pm
I'm not playing this game as a mentor. I'm aware Max (and Hector) were guiding the new players more. I just wanted to give my opinion as another player in this game. It's a fact I rated you more town than Crystal among the new players.
I like the name ToonyMagician, makes me sound even more mysterious.
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 06:17:57 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 20, 2023, 06:22:28 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 06:24:08 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 06:26:48 pm
What?? Max is a homie. Just because he was mafia in this game doesn't mean he's my mortal enemy. I play with the guy in almost every game I'm in and don't have a problem with him as a player. In fact, it's even funner because he's a hard player to read.
I was genuinely considering doing a no lynch because he’s so hard to read.
Possibly also out of spite.
Agree though, Max is a legend.
Post by: TricMagic on August 20, 2023, 06:29:45 pm
TricMagic
You're not just the Elephant Parade, but the whole damn circus. I believe this ruse has gone on for long enough. Sorry Max.
ruffles around pm
Max: "it's yolo on this game"
TM, I think I might get your meaning, assuming you were being vague on purpose.Not being vague anymore. As the Warlock, I can contact the dead once per night, and I got a number of selections from Mafiachat to sprinkle in. A way to signal myself as an ally. EP wouldn't know about this unless they were the other Mafia. And yes, Daylight Savings does in fact exist.
[Max also wasn't here at day end. :(]
Post by: Snowkiller on August 20, 2023, 06:30:04 pm
Post by: TricMagic on August 20, 2023, 06:31:21 pm
I had meant to make that red.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 06:33:52 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 06:35:34 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 06:36:41 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 20, 2023, 06:40:59 pm
Post by: TricMagic on August 20, 2023, 06:42:09 pm
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 20, 2023, 06:59:45 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 20, 2023, 07:01:52 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2023, 08:22:15 pm
Elephant Parade: 1: TricMagic
Snowkiller: 6: Caz, Crystalizedmire, Hector13, Snowkiller, sofanthiel, ToonyMan
TricMagic: 1: Elephant Parade
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday. There are 5 votes to Shorten. 6 votes total needed to Shorten the day.
Post by: ToonyMan on August 20, 2023, 08:53:40 pm
Toony please shorten. I have even dumber gambits up my sleeve if you don'tFine. Shorten.
Is it okay to doodle a little comic about Snowkiller revealing they're scum?I'm looking forward to this. I was actually thinking of possible ideas myself with Elephant hovering over Snowkiller.
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2023, 09:30:38 pm
Elephant Parade: 1: TricMagic
Snowkiller: 6: Caz, Crystalizedmire, Hector13, Snowkiller, sofanthiel, ToonyMan
TricMagic: 1: Elephant Parade
The Hierophant looks up at the sun still high in the sky. "Well, if you are certain, then we shall not delay."
"Snowkiller, it is the will of the assembled and," he pauses, looking a bit confused at the tally sheet, "you yourself, that you be executed as a danger to the people."
He raises his hand and the light beams down from the heavens once again. Snowkiller does not scream in pain, instead a look of peace comes over their face. A glowing figure stands behind them, and places a hand upon the condemned. The light turns from orange to white, and suddenly flares too bright to look at.
When you can see again Snowkiller is gone. Interestingly, so is Elephant Parade.
The Hierophant look around at all of you, a sad look upon his face.
"It seems you were wrong, and our good Sexton was just that. Indeed, it seems they were so special that the Ancestors sent a Guardian Angel to watch over them."
He pauses.
"Both are gone now, and the evil is undiminished. Go home, ponder what has happened. I hope to see you all here tomorrow, and that the Ancestor shall guide you with wisdom."
You return to your homes. What else is there to do?
Day 2 is ended! PM me your Night Actions.
Post by: Mephansteras on August 22, 2023, 08:59:26 pm
Gathering again before the altar, you all mill about and wait for a bit.
Eventually, however, it becomes obvious that neither Caz nor Toonyman are going to join you.
You decide to go check on them as a group. The Hierophant comes along as well. Perhaps to offer wisdom. Or perhaps just to see what you find.
Caz’s house is empty. No sign of trouble or violence here. You do find some old statues of the fey hidden about, though, and carvings up on the ceiling. Seems she was Feybound, and undoubtedly one of those who started this mess. But where is she?
You head over to Toonyman’s house, where things are quite different.
In the front yard lies the body of Caz, and that of a great brown bear.
Did Toonyman get killed by the bear that killed Caz? You decide to search the house.
There, well, things get less obvious. There are the normal things you’d expect, like a bed and a sturdy table. But there are other things that make less sense. Like all of the claw marks on the floor. All over the floor. All of the floor, in fact. Like a bear lived here for a very long time.
“Ah.” says the Hierophant “I have heard of these. A werebear. It seems that the two struggled, and neither really managed to win.”
“Come. Let us return to the altar. Perhaps the Ancestors will have a message for us.”
You follow him back, and watch as he lights the incense for the day. It immediately flares and burns in an instant, leaving nothing but white ash and a sweet smell in the air.
The Hierophant turns, a beaming smile on his face. “My friends! It seems that our troubles have managed to solve one another for us! The Ancestors are pleased, and we are safe again!”
“Thank you, all, for your service in protecting our people. You have done well.”
And...that's a very sudden wrap to the game! I knew putting in a Werebear SK made that a possibility, but this ended up being almost as quick a game as possible.
Hopefully people at least had fun while it lasted! And I hope Caz and Toony enjoyed their double-kill fight scene. ;)
I'll put role PM and Night Action results into the next post.
Post by: Mephansteras on August 22, 2023, 09:03:27 pm
Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2023, 09:08:34 pm
I knew it was probably Caz during N2 (it could only be Hector or Tric otherwise, but Tric was definitely town), but I have no way to protect myself so I have to hope mafia don't kill me each night, which became progressively harder. I'm surprised they even went for Hector on N1.
Getting a mafia!Max lynched D1 was probably a bad thing since it made me a huge target, but I could only try to appear as town as possible so that when all the actual mafia died it would be easier to stay alive.
I was going to fakeclaim Lone Witch or Priest on D3 if the game was still going.
I knew I could at least end the game immediately of mafia tried to kill me, so I figured that was better than just letting myself die and have town figure it out.
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2023, 09:09:58 pm
Post by: hector13 on August 22, 2023, 09:12:58 pm
Thought it was gonna be Tric. I actually suspected if anyone was doing the bus it was Toony, so well done Caz. Regardless, they would be the last two I’d have supported eliminating.
Also suspected there may have been a hostile TP due to the wording of my PM, but discounted that after EP died.
All in, I was absolutely terrible in that game, 0/10 would time travel to correct… well I would say mistakes but that covers everything.
Post by: hector13 on August 22, 2023, 09:13:34 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 22, 2023, 09:18:00 pm
Why did you choose me as the NK though?Caz didn't really explain anything in mafiachat after I died, so I don't know. I didn't even know what was going to happen n2 at all until everyone did.
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 22, 2023, 09:22:35 pm
Spoiler: warning: long (click to show/hide)
?? Won't help him D2 though, and for all the talk of a SK lynch, people still have their votes parked on sofanthiel... And frankly, I almost value my dignity more than my wincon at this point. Maybe if people actually switch their votes before I leavee: lmfao it was actually caz
Post by: ToonyMan on August 22, 2023, 09:23:01 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 22, 2023, 09:30:38 pm
Post by: sofanthiel on August 22, 2023, 09:37:30 pm
"It seems you were wrong, and our good Sexton was just that. Indeed, it seems they were so special that the Ancestors sent a Guardian Angel to watch over them."
Welp, somehow, I'm not all that surprised! I do feel slightly bad for EP, though, haha; would've sucked if the game didn't end the same night he had to endure whatever Snowkiller's "plan" was.
Thought it was gonna be Tric. I actually suspected if anyone was doing the bus it was Toony, so well done Caz.
Yup! Caz was someone I least expected to be scum. In fact, I barely even considered the possibility!
Post by: TricMagic on August 23, 2023, 07:38:46 am
Also Snowkiller, you can't block people on bay12. If you can't be civil, don't play at all.
Note the night 2 is off. I got cursed by Snowkiller when I spoke with them, so Meph let me speak to Elephant instead, who was much more helpful. Gg everyone.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 23, 2023, 01:33:33 pm
Also Snowkiller, you can't block people on bay12. If you can't be civil, don't play at all.http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore;u (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=lists;sa=ignore;u)
Use this knowledge how you will, though it probably won't help you win any mafia games.
Post by: notquitethere on August 23, 2023, 05:15:16 pm
Post by: Snowkiller on August 24, 2023, 07:48:06 pm
And TricMagic, you've made it to my block list. If you can't be a cool cat, don't play forum games at all.
Post by: TricMagic on August 25, 2023, 06:52:15 am
Post by: sofanthiel on August 25, 2023, 07:22:16 am
... Really? That's going to make it super hard to play mafia you know? Not that you can read this.
Post by: hector13 on August 25, 2023, 10:51:59 am
Post by: sofanthiel on August 25, 2023, 11:26:23 am