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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Topic started by: Man of Paper on August 28, 2023, 10:17:22 pm

Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: Man of Paper on August 28, 2023, 10:17:22 pm
Discord Link (https://discord.gg/yRTbyGt)

In the beginning there was a vast darkness. Things changed, and then they changed some more, and they kept changing until we finally find ourselves at a unique and beautiful planet filled with life. One of these forms of life is human: you! You are all the leaders of a sizable tribe of humans as they move from barely subsisting to settling and, hopefully, thriving through the ages. There is only so much room at the top where the lucky few bask in the fruits of the labors of others, and this creates a divide between you, the leaders of this as-of-yet unknown tribe!

At the start of the game every player is a Minor Family directing a nomadic tribe. As time goes on, Major Families will be introduced and voting rules will be adjusted accordingly (covered further below). Both types of families can propose plans of action for the tribe during all four phases of each turn and all generally want their peoples to continue existing. Beyond that, they are all competing for the position of top dogs as the Minor Families try to outmaneuver one another to usurp a Major Family and the Major Families do everything they can to hold onto their positions.

But how are you supposed to do any of that while you’re also leading what may one day be a multicontinental empire? Find out more in the spoilers below!
Spoiler: Ages (click to show/hide)

Each turn is divided into four distinct phases that take place over a wildly variable amount of time - months, years, or even generations can pass by over the course of a single turn. The first turn is the only exception, with an extra phase at the beginning for selecting your starting tribe. The tribe starts as Nomadic, with special rules in the spoiler titled "READ: Nomad Rules". Make sure you read it, especially if you're a returning player. Becoming a Settled tribe will replace the known special rules with new ones, but you don't get to learn those until your people do (:.

And here's some more spoilers covering a few other things!
Spoiler: READ: Nomad Rules (click to show/hide)
 
Spoiler: Settled Rules (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Proposals and Voting (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Starting The Game (click to show/hide)

To make things easy on youse, you will be able to search TURNTURNTURN in the fancy search bar up on the top right in order to find all updates in this thread.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Man of Paper on August 28, 2023, 10:17:42 pm
Welcome to the Tribal Selection Pregame Phase!

As you sign up to participate you are also asked to mull over and vote on which of these starting locations you prefer. Once you select your starting location we will move onto the first Exploration Phase!

There are Five starting locations:

Quote from: Northern Tundra
Your people have come to find themselves in the cold territories of the northern polar region. The land itself provides snow, and rock beneath that. Some wildlife manages to subsist on the rare rocky outcroppings that poke above the permafrost and allow plant life to grow. Your tribe is drawn to the coast though, as the sea provides more than the land ever could. Strange ringing coral in the shallows draws many a curious eye, but the whales who find themselves stranded and lost in the area are the true prize. Though difficult to hunt, these massive creatures find themselves washing up on the beach as often as not, providing an easy source of food for the locals.

Starting Technologies: Bone Tools (provides basic tools for basic tasks. Requires access to Bone), Bone Spears (allows Exploitation of larger beasts for Food. Requires access to Bone), Primitive Firemaking (a base tech vital for survival), Umiak Boats (canoes made of animal parts, allowing exploitation of and eases travel through Rivers and Coastal waters. Requires an exploited medium or large Animal resource), Chum Tents (provides basic shelter, made of animal hide stretched over bone. Requires access to an exploited Animal resource)

Starting Zone Known Resources: Food x2 (Bowhead Whale Pod, Lingonberry Patches), Stone x1 (Gabbro Protrusions), Bone x2 (Bowhead Whale Pod, Whalebone Coast), Sonorite x1 (Sonorite Reef)

Sonorite: A colorful coral only found in the waters around a large island in the arctic. At this time not much is known about it, but it surely has potential. There is currently no way to manipulate or utilize this material. Considered to have a sphere of sound.

Quote from: Equatorial Grassland
Your people have found themselves on a nice patch of land near the equator, "comfortably" bracketed between mountains in the distance to the west, dense jungle to the north, and an oppressive expanse of desert to the south. While resources are bound to be plentiful, there is little room to move without coming face-to-face with deadly, unforgiving environments. Your people somehow managed not only to get to this somewhat serene slice of land, but have done so seemingly unharmed. As an unexpected result some superstition has arisen regarding the consumption of various plants, especially those with apparent psychoactive effects.

Starting Technologies: Stone Tools (provides basic tools for basic tasks. Requires access to Stone), Primitive Firemaking (a base tech vital for survival), Early Shamanism (a foundational technology for spiritual beliefs. Has a chance to reveal additional Plant-based resources when exploring new areas.), Bentwood Yurts (provides basic shelter, made of branches and bark shaped. Requires access to an exploited Animal resource), Chronological Imbalance (The tribe will experience abnormal events requiring your attention at a regular frequency. Proposals utilizing Traveler's Root will roll at advantage (taking the highest of two d10 rolls), with the lower roll hidden and applied to the next Traveler's Root-free proposal.)

Starting Zone Known Resources: Food x2 (Peanut Pods, Chayote Vines), Stone x1 (Gneiss Outcrops), Wood x1 (Araucaria Grove), Traveler's Root x1 (Non-euclidean Root Cluster), ?? (Sheep Herd)

Traveler's Root: A reddish-brown creeping plant capable of clinging to and climbing across most surfaces. At this time not much is known about it, but it fills your people with both a sense of hope and a sense of dread. Considered to have a sphere of time-space.

Quote from: River Valley
Your people have traveled the vast plains and found themselves at the intersection of two great but gentle rivers fed by massive mountain ranges far to the east and west. This tranquil place is home to a vast number of flora and fauna, most of which is relatively harmless. Harmless, but not unremarkable. A surprising number of the local wildlife is endemic to the area, which could be considered unusual for a location in the middle of a massive continent with large tracts of accessible and relatively similar environments surrounding it. Keen eyes from the tribe have noted that the region's unique wildlife tends to feed on the vibrant and colorful flowers growing in the fertile valleys.

Starting Technologies: Stone Tools (provides basic tools for basic tasks. Requires access to Stone), Primitive Firemaking (a base tech vital for survival), Early Herbology (Non-tree plant-based resources have a chance to provide Chemicals or an additional Food), Early Animal Husbandry (allows the taming of docile creatures, getting them to provide additional resources to the tribe), Thatch Huts (temporary homes made of bundles of thatch laid over sticks and coated with mud.)

Starting Zone Known Resources: Food x2 (Maize Fields, Potato Blooms), Stone x1 (Siltstone Bluffs), Wood x1 (Red Oak Thicket), Chemical x1 (Potato Blooms), ?? (Sharpbeak Chicken), Nymph Rose x1 (Nymph Rosebush Clump)

Nymph Rose: A species of rose that seems to change the things that eat it over time. Little else is currently known about the plant. Considered to have a sphere of biology.

Quote from: Gulf Coast
A temperate region bordering an ocean to the south has drawn your people to it, in large part due to the massive crater marking some major cataclysmic event in the planet's past. Gently rolling hills and tracts of relatively flat land to the east and west respectively make for generally unremarkable surroundings beyond the planetary dimple. At the very bottom of the crater is a viscous grey fluid that is currently laying dormant but seems to have spread throughout the surrounding region at a number of small springs and pools that dot the landscape. Local wildlife tends to avoid this grey goo.

Starting Technologies: Stone Tools (provides basic tools for basic tasks. Requires access to Stone), Primitive Firemaking (a base tech vital for survival), Fishing Spear (sharpened sticks with forked tips that allow for Exploitation of water-based Food resources. Requires access to Wood), Basic Clayworking (reveals Clay resources, provides simple bowls and cups for the tribe), Hide Tents (simple housing made of animal hides stretched over conical wooden frames)

Starting Zone Known Resources: Food x2 (Cranberry Bog, Black Sea Bass School), Stone x1 (Shale Deposits), Wood x1 (Pine Barrens), Clay x1 (Clay Hillock), Nanites x2 (Impact Crater)

Nanites: A self-replicating but currently dormant mass of machine-based microlife left behind after an extrasolar object struck the planet, not that tribal folk would comprehend this. Very little is known about this grey goo. Considered to have a sphere of inorganic life.


Quote from: Cavern Complex
Sometimes the dangers of the surface world are too much to handle, as was the case with your people. Fleeing the constant threat of death provided by barbaric tribes and vicious predators, your tribe fled to the center of their continent, passing through a mountain range and into a barren landscape. Turning around would mean their certain demise, but so would staying where they were. Luckily, a vast network of caves and caverns in the region provided cover and respite, and after a significant amount of time your people have learned to adapt and thrive in this otherwise unfriendly environment. The bowels of the earth do hold mysteries of their own, and the creeping mist in the deepest chambers fills your people with an incredible amount of dread. Some even claim they hear voices from the depths.

Starting Technologies: Cave Adaptation (The tribe has greatly heightened senses, which can prove to be overwhelming on the surface), Subterranean Migrations (Your people can find underground routes through any Land tile), Stone Tools (provides basic tools for basic tasks. Requires access to Stone), Early Firemaking (A base tech vital for survival), Primitive Ropemaking (Provides ropes useful for a wide variety of tasks. Requires access to Textiles), Cave Homes (the most basic form of housing - caves carved out by nature ages ago) 

Starting Zone Known Resources: Food x2 (Hairy Lichen Walls, Cave Crayfish), Stone x2 (Granite Stalactites, Granite Stalagmites), Textiles x1 (Hairy Lichen Walls), Mourning Dew x3 (The Depths) 

Mourning Dew: A dense mist found deep underground that unsettles the living. Some tribals swear they hear the voices of the recently deceased within the fog. Very little is known about the true nature of this haze. Considered to have a sphere of mortality and (un?)death.


Remember to use a votebox to determine your starting location! Time to get started! If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or in the discord server provided in the first post.

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: m1895 on August 28, 2023, 10:24:35 pm
Biopunk time
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (1) m1895
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Powder Miner on August 28, 2023, 10:53:34 pm
As much as I would truly adore the cringe hole experience, I worry it might get monotonous in the long term. As much as I don't super want to pound down the animal husbandry route again and am not super a biopunk guy, I do honestly like the starting tech options for River Valley and think that it would be a good biome to start in. Hell, it'd be good for agriculture, too, as would admittedly the Nymph Rose.

Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on August 28, 2023, 11:19:49 pm
I like rivers
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, TCK
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Quarque on August 29, 2023, 01:23:50 am
A little hesitant to go heavily into animal taming again, I'll vote for the for the more desolate first option which I think is super cool and chill. (hur hur)

Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, TCK
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on August 29, 2023, 02:09:13 am
The grassland will have going to been the most interesting qua special resource, and I likewise am not thrilled at the idea of re-hashing an animal-heavy strategy.
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, TCK
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (1) NUKE9.13
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on August 29, 2023, 02:16:42 am
I may like rivers but I like the time fuckery moss more


Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (2) NUKE9.13, TCK
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on August 29, 2023, 02:19:44 am
Considering joining.  Want to ask a few questions on discord, first…

Edit:  just talked to the GM on discord, and it looks like the river valley is a death trap that’ll do in our civilization before it even gets a chance to get started!

Edit2:  Looks like I was duped by someone named Man of Polders.  Still waiting for the GM to respond…
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Quarque on August 29, 2023, 02:57:30 am
lmao

never trust someone named Man of Polders ;)

(edit: added smiley and "lmao" to make it more clearly ironic)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: chubby2man on August 29, 2023, 10:04:16 am
Hmm kinda concerned about the river valley’s dangers, so I’m voting for a beautiful and scenic Gulf Coast



Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (2) NUKE9.13, TCK
Gulf Coast: (1) C2M

Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 29, 2023, 11:05:59 am
River Valley provides freshwater which I'm pretty sure neither the tundra nor the gulf coast has. Also, I'm curious about what monstrosities we turn into after we eat way too much nymph rose.
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (2) NUKE9.13, TCK
Gulf Coast: (1) C2M
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on August 29, 2023, 11:17:23 am
Yeah, I think we can use those roses responsibly, right?  Right? 😉

Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (2) NUKE9.13, TCK
Gulf Coast: (1) C2M
Cavern Complex: (1) A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on August 30, 2023, 01:47:38 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (1) TCK
Gulf Coast: (1) C2M
Cavern Complex: (2) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13
Perhaps a cavern compromise?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on August 30, 2023, 01:48:59 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (1) TCK
Gulf Coast: (1) C2M
Cavern Complex: (2) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13
Perhaps a cavern compromise?

Could you move my vote to match the edit I made to my previous post?

Edit:  thanks!
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on August 30, 2023, 01:50:05 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (1) TCK
Gulf Coast: (1) C2M
Cavern Complex: (2) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13
Perhaps a cavern compromise?

Could you move my vote to match the edit I made to my previous post?
I did (in fact, I did so so quickly that the post doesn't even claim to be edited. To be clear, I did post an incorrect votebox initially, but spotted my mistake almost immediately)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: chubby2man on August 30, 2023, 01:51:21 pm
Turns out the ocean is actually quite big and scary, so we would rather live under ground.


Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: (1) TCK
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (3) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M

Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on August 30, 2023, 02:31:30 pm
Come to the dark dank side, we have cookies

Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (3) m1895, Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: 
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (4) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M, TCK
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 30, 2023, 02:49:22 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: 
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (5) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M, TCK, Crystalizedmire
Fine, you guys are right. GHOST MIST FOR THE WIN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on August 30, 2023, 02:56:48 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: 
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (4) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M, TCK, Crystalizedmire
Fine, you guys are right. GHOST MIST FOR THE WIN

Btw, you got the count for Cavern Complex wrong.  It should be 5.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 30, 2023, 02:59:13 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (1) Quarque
Equatorial Grassland: 
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (5) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M, TCK, Crystalizedmire
Fine, you guys are right. GHOST MIST FOR THE WIN

Btw, you got the count for Cavern Complex wrong.  It should be 5.
Thanks
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 30, 2023, 03:00:31 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (2) Quarque, Maximum Spin
Equatorial Grassland: 
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (5) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M, TCK, Crystalizedmire
I like the cold.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on August 30, 2023, 03:10:02 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (2) Quarque, Maximum Spin
Equatorial Grassland: 
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (5) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M, TCK, Crystalizedmire
I like the cold.

But we have cookies… 😢
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 30, 2023, 03:26:04 pm
Quote from: geocache
River Valley: (2) m1895, Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (2) Quarque, Maximum Spin
Equatorial Grassland: 
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (5) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M, TCK, Crystalizedmire
I like the cold.

But we have cookies… 😢
And ghost mist
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: m1895 on August 30, 2023, 07:46:08 pm
I'll take my bow
Quote from: votebox
River Valley: (1) Powder Miner
Northern Tundra: (2) Quarque, Maximum Spin
Equatorial Grassland: 
Gulf Coast:
Cavern Complex: (5) A_Curious_Cat, NUKE9.13, C2M, TCK, Crystalizedmire
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Exploration I]
Post by: Man of Paper on August 31, 2023, 01:21:40 pm
Preliminary Turn: The Chosen People

Hounded constantly by tribes larger, faster, and more brutal than themselves, your people had to choose between utter annihilation and the sliver of a chance at life that the mountains provided in the hopes that you could reach some sort of paradise. Or some peace, at least.

Unfortunately, when the tribe finally passed through the mountains, they were met with a vast expanse of rock. A completely barren surface greeted the tribe, offering no respite from the sun and wind and practically nothing for your people to survive off of. When your tribe finally found a hole descending into the stone they were fairly quick to go within (NUKE9.13 +1I). Having neared starvation and death from exposure, your people groped around in darkness, picking what they could off of the cave walls and licking the moisture that dripped down them until they at least knew they'd be able to survive for a little longer. When they managed to create fire using some dead moss and twisted lichen scraped from the walls into guiding ropes, your people found themselves exploring their cave further. Your people also decided to continue probing the surface now that there's some chance of survival. With the blinding sun in the day and freezing temperatures at night however, scouting was very difficult and as a result the tribe has minimal knowledge of the surrounding area. They wait for you.

Tribe arrived in 16-M.

While your people know what the surface looks like, they have yet to actually familiarize themselves with the surface or see what is offered by the labyrinth of caverns beneath the surface. Exploration offers to solve both problems. Exploring requires you to choose a tile within range to analyze in order to discover terrain and resources. As a Nomadic Tribe you can choose to move your tribe during this time instead, which will relocate them to the chosen neighboring area and provide greater detail on the "offerings" of nature without relying on rolls.

Terrain Identified
15-L: Rocky Wasteland, Mountain Range, Hilly Grassland
15-M: Rocky Wasteland, Mountain Range
15-N: Rocky Wasteland, Mountain Range, Hilly Grassland
16-L: Rocky Wasteland, Mountain Range
16-M: TRIBAL CAVERN, Rocky Wasteland
16-N: Rocky Wasteland, Mountain Range
17-L: Rocky Wasteland, Mountain Range
17-M: Rocky Wasteland, Mountain Range
17-N: Rocky Wasteland, Mountain Range, Hilly Grassland

While you Families discuss and decide on your next course of action in the Exploration Phase you are also tasked with naming the tribe. You will not gain influence for proposing the winning name, and do not need to vote for the tribe name in two separate voteboxes (although a votebox for the names would be nifty and keep it organized, I won't push youse to maintain three separate voteboxes). There is also no deadline, so you may wait to name the tribe until you have solid inspiration. You will occasionally get small prompts like this when you have the opportunity to flesh out lore so that everyone has equal say in decisions that do not effect the game mechanically.

Remember, during the Exploration Phase you can choose to settle or explore another region, but you may also instead propose developments to aid in exploration and travel. If you have questions about what phase a proposal fits into, feel free to ask me at any time! The further a proposal strays from known Technologies, the more difficult it will be or longer it will take to be adopted by the tribe as a whole.


Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: chubby2man on August 31, 2023, 01:33:04 pm
I propose we Explore the caverns of 16-M.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 31, 2023, 01:38:28 pm
I propose we Explore 15-N
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Powder Miner on August 31, 2023, 01:46:24 pm
Quote from: Cold-Temperature Clothing
The process of acclimation to the harsh realities of underground living is very much a gradual one - and one that is still ongoing for the tribe. A particular problem, especially given the cave-dwelling nature of the tribe, is the freezing cold of the underground, held at bay only by the whims of the fire. This has made the tribespeople deeply uncomfortable and effectively prevented most scouting, but the time has come for a solution.

Some of the more exploration-minded in the tribe have put together new kinds of clothing, much more thoroughly covering than the utterly primitive essentials the tribe has been wearing up until now. These clothes are, obviously, still fairly primitive, consisting primarily of lichen tied/wrapped into a framework, often lattice-like, with the openings between the lichen stuffed with moss and a thinner outer layer of moss, but it suffices for MUCH more temperature protection, hopefully making scouting much easier in the future.

Name suggestion: Those-Who-Are-Pursued, mostly acting as a placeholder til we get a different name as we accrue more confidence
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on August 31, 2023, 01:47:33 pm
I propose we Explore the caverns of 16-M.
I think our starting tile is pre-explored. At least, we know of (and harvest) a bunch of subterranean resources it produces, and we know that the surface is completely barren, so there probably isn't much more we can find here (with our current tech, at least).
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Quarque on August 31, 2023, 01:52:31 pm
Quote from: votebox
Cold-Temperature Clothing (0):
Explore N-15 (1): Quarque

I'd like to get to know the immediately nearby horrors first. Better clothing is good too but would rather not use up an exploration phase for it now.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Powder Miner on August 31, 2023, 02:02:00 pm
Quote from: votebox
Cold-Temperature Clothing (1): Powder Miner
Explore N-15 (1): Quarque

I'm banking on two things: this making exploration an easier process, which’ll be useful right now when we want to do a lot of exploring (maybe it’ll increase our exploration range), and that although we obviously want to start exploring, we probably need to do it THIS TURN less than any other time, seeing as very little is going on.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 31, 2023, 02:16:16 pm
Quote from: votebox
Cold-Temperature Clothing (1): Powder Miner
Explore N-15 (2): Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Obviously I'm voting for myself
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 31, 2023, 02:18:01 pm
I don't really see the value in a proposal right now, when we have no particular goal and no immediately obvious problem. (Caves aren't even particulary cold! More like a brisk fall day, typically.) I think exploring for more resources and more potential problems to solve is more valuable. However, I propose exploring 17-M instead, because it's a shorter trip to the sea and therefore seems more likely to get us some different interesting biomes.
Quote from: exploration 'you were specifically told not to just call it "votebox"' edition
Cold-Temperature Clothing (1): Powder Miner
Explore 15-N (2): Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Explore 17-M (1): Maximum Spin

I also have a suggestion for Experimentation but that'll have to wait.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on August 31, 2023, 02:29:19 pm
Quote from: exploration 'you were specifically told not to just call it "votebox"' edition
Cold-Temperature Clothing (1): Powder Miner
Explore 15-N (2): Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Explore 17-M (2): Maximum Spin, A_Curious_Cat

17-M sounds good to me, too.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on August 31, 2023, 04:05:16 pm
Quote from: exploration 'you were specifically told not to just call it "votebox"' edition
Cold-Temperature Clothing (2): Powder Miner, TCK
Explore 15-N (2): Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Explore 17-M (2): Maximum Spin, A_Curious_Cat

There isn't much need for exploration right now
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 31, 2023, 04:10:28 pm
There isn't much need for exploration right now
That's like the opposite of the truth. Right now we want to explore more to learn about resources and where to move and, if at all, to settle. It would only make sense to say "we don't need to explore right now" if we already had everything we could want!
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: chubby2man on August 31, 2023, 04:18:50 pm
I propose we Explore the caverns of 16-M.
I think our starting tile is pre-explored. At least, we know of (and harvest) a bunch of subterranean resources it produces, and we know that the surface is completely barren, so there probably isn't much more we can find here (with our current tech, at least).

Ahh good point, I was thinking going selecting our starting tile would involve going deeper? But I’m fine with exploring in an actual direction.


Quote from: exploration 'you were specifically told not to just call it "votebox"' edition
Cold-Temperature Clothing (2): Powder Miner, TCK
Explore 15-N (2): Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Explore 17-M (3): Maximum Spin, A_Curious_Cat, C2M

Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 31, 2023, 04:21:32 pm
Oh, I also propose name: "Underkind"
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Powder Miner on August 31, 2023, 04:26:02 pm
Consider the following - how exploration worked last iteration of this game is that as we got more exploration-relevant tech, we got more spaces that we could explore - going from just exploring one adjacent space to being able to draw a path of 2 spaces, 3 spaces, 4 spaces.

Now, since we're nomadic, there's something two spaces might be able to do for us that one space of exploration can't, which is moving one space, dropping our settlement on that tile, and continuing to explore, letting us both settle on explored territory AND not have to give up exploring new territory. If we manage two spaces of exploration, we will also be able to explore this area MUCH more rapidly; it would in fact immediately make up for any exploration we lose spending this phase on clothes that help to counteract stated exploration obstacles. From this perspective, keeping our exploration tech at 0 from the start actually hobbles it pretty badly.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: chubby2man on August 31, 2023, 04:43:36 pm
Consider the following - how exploration worked last iteration of this game is that as we got more exploration-relevant tech, we got more spaces that we could explore - going from just exploring one adjacent space to being able to draw a path of 2 spaces, 3 spaces, 4 spaces.

Now, since we're nomadic, there's something two spaces might be able to do for us that one space of exploration can't, which is moving one space, dropping our settlement on that tile, and continuing to explore, letting us both settle on explored territory AND not have to give up exploring new territory. If we manage two spaces of exploration, we will also be able to explore this area MUCH more rapidly; it would in fact immediately make up for any exploration we lose spending this phase on clothes that help to counteract stated exploration obstacles. From this perspective, keeping our exploration tech at 0 from the start actually hobbles it pretty badly.

But by exploring now we may find resources to exploit and things which might make future exploration tech easier, while also potentially expanding our options in the present term.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 31, 2023, 04:47:08 pm
There's certainly no objectively wrong answer, since exploring now will also give us resources we can use to catch up on the turn not spent on tech, but I'd rather have some idea of what's going on before investing in solutions.
Besides, thinking it's cold underground is objectively wrong. :P The turn only cites freezing cold at night outside!
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on August 31, 2023, 04:49:42 pm
Oh, I also propose name: "Underkind"

How about “Mooks”?  :P
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Powder Miner on August 31, 2023, 04:51:18 pm
There's certainly no objectively wrong answer, since exploring now will also give us resources we can use to catch up on the turn not spent on tech, but I'd rather have some idea of what's going on before investing in solutions.
Besides, thinking it's cold underground is objectively wrong. :P The turn only cites freezing cold at night outside!
Fair enough, I misinterpreted that.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 31, 2023, 04:51:50 pm
Oh, I also propose name: "Underkind"

How about “Mooks”?  :P
How about "the Ghosts of Deep?"
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on August 31, 2023, 04:56:00 pm
Oh, I also propose name: "Underkind"

How about “Mooks”?  :P
How about "the Ghosts of Deep?"
How about “The Ghosts of The Deep”? 

I think it sounds better with a definite article before “Deep”.  I also dislike having the question mark be part of the name.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on August 31, 2023, 05:05:22 pm
Oh, I also propose name: "Underkind"

How about “Mooks”?  :P
How about "the Ghosts of Deep?"
How about “The Ghosts of The Deep”? 

I think it sounds better with a definite article before “Deep”.  I also dislike having the question mark be part of the name.
I did not realize the question mark is part of the name
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Quarque on September 01, 2023, 02:02:10 am
Quote from: exploration 'you were specifically told not to just call it "votebox"' edition
Cold-Temperature Clothing (2): Powder Miner, TCK
Explore 15-N (1): Crystalizedmire
Explore 17-M (4): Maximum Spin, A_Curious_Cat, C2M, Quarque
Jumping the bandwagon, as I really want to explore in some direction.
I do suggest relabelling it to something like "Explore caverns of..", to make it unambiguously clear that we're exploring below-ground.

Quote from: tribal namebox
Those-Who-Are-Pursued (1): Quarque
Underkind
Mooks
Ghosts of the deep
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 01, 2023, 02:07:13 am
Mmm, yes, I meant to ask Paperman if that would make a difference. I authorize the change if all the voters are agreed.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 01, 2023, 08:21:15 am
Quote from: exploration 'you were specifically told not to just call it "votebox"' edition
Cold-Temperature Clothing (2): Powder Miner, TCK
Explore 15-N (1): Crystalizedmire
Explore 17-M (4): Maximum Spin, A_Curious_Cat, C2M, Quarque

Quote from: tribal namebox
Those-Who-Are-Pursued (2): Quarque, Powder Miner
Underkind
Mooks
Ghosts of the deep

He did already mention that the nearby surface here is barren with the intent of keeping us underground at the start, so I don’t think there’s much chance of us accidentally popping onto the surface
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 01, 2023, 08:26:04 am
Quote from: tribal namebox
Those-Who-Are-Pursued (2): Quarque, Powder Miner
Underkind
Mooks
Ghosts of the Deep (1): Crystallizedmire
The name is cool and thematically apropriate due to our ghost mist
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on September 01, 2023, 12:47:23 pm
Quote from: tribal namebox
Those-Who-Are-Pursued (2): Quarque, Powder Miner
Underkind
Mooks
Ghosts of the Deep (2): Crystallizedmire, TCK
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 02, 2023, 01:14:33 pm
Fine I'm voting 17-M
Quote from: exploration 'you were specifically told not to just call it "votebox"' edition
Cold-Temperature Clothing (2): Powder Miner, TCK
Explore 15-N (0):
Explore 17-M (4): Maximum Spin, A_Curious_Cat, C2M, Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 02, 2023, 01:25:34 pm
Quote from: tribal namebox
Those-Who-Are-Pursued (2): Quarque, Powder Miner
Underkind
Mooks
Ghosts of the Deep (2): Crystallizedmire, TCK, A_Curious_Cat

Although I do feel that “the” should be capitalized.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Civ Selection]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 02, 2023, 01:31:01 pm
Quote from: tribal namebox
Those-Who-Are-Pursued (2): Quarque, Powder Miner
Underkind
Mooks
Ghosts of the Deep (3): Crystallizedmire, TCK, A_Curious_Cat

Although I do feel that “the” should be capitalized.
I'm pretty sure the "the" should not be capitalized just like "of"
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 07, 2023, 07:54:43 pm
Exploration I: Small Steps

The caverns offer your people their only chance at survival during these early days of the tribe. With nothing for them on the surface, one of the Families pushed for the creation of bands of scouts to check out the caves in 17-M (Maximum Spin +1I).

The scouts carried torches made of the broken ends of stalagmites with bowl-like indents carved into the wider end to hold the flame. These dim (though not to the tribe's eyes) fires were short-lived, but fuel happened to be plentiful during the scouting expedition. Scouts were also burdened with rope in order to traverse rougher climbs as well as leave a trail. Small parties of three or four would trace the various routes within the subterranean labyrinth, chiseling different markings that could be used to identify whether or not a path was explored and if it terminated in a dead end (a horizontal line for that branch of the cavern continuing, a vertical one for a dead end), and the ropes were used to backtrack quickly and easily.

The explorers progressed eastward through the dark passages with relative ease, foraging what the could of the lichen, fungi, and rare cave insect they found on the way. Eventually though they managed to come across an obstacle they couldn't easily traverse. A shallow channel of fresh water carved through the rock and ran across the tunnel. The stone beneath was likely slick, and the waters swift, but your tribe never tested it. Along the surface of the water gently rolled a thick vapor that your people immediately recognized thanks to the chill in their spine and the occasional whisper from the darkness. While their aversion to the Mourning Dew halted the planned direction of the party, the water had carved out a shelf wide enough to walk along the channel on in ages past. Eventually the channel led to a vast underground lake and, more amazingly, a split in the earth above that allowed the sun to sweep across the lake for a couple hours each day. Some ferns and small plants managed to take root in the clay-rich soil deposited along the lakeside. There was even, much to the chagrin of one explorer specifically, some life in the cave in the form of wasp nests, as well as the bats that fed upon them. There seems to be nothing beneath the surface of the water, but your people don't feel like checking right now anyways.

This location seems like there would be minimal difficulty supporting the tribe, even if it is heavily unsettling. Your tribe will also probably need to figure out what Mourning Dew does to a person when they interact with it (GM Note: I didn't want to determine the interaction between people and the dew, and I also want to make it clear that there's a reason why your people are avoiding the Dew mechanically. Don't overthink your people being spooked by it, that's just flavor).

RESOURCES IDENTIFIED
17-M
Clay Soil Deposits (Clay)
Gray Bat Swarm (??)
Mud-caked Wasp Nests (??)
Hearty Anasazi Bean Poles (Food x2)
The Whispering Lake (Mourning Dew x5)


----

It is time for your first Expansion Phase. Remember that this phase is for expanding in the sense of proposing technology to build up your military, society, industry, or culture in addition to the expected meaning of expansion by declaring an "attack" on a zone within or along your borders if you have an identified threat you wish to eliminate. As a Nomadic tribe you may choose to move during this phase as well. The name will also continue to be a point of discussion until the vote is more decisive.



Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN

Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 07, 2023, 08:21:27 pm
Having thought it over, I don't suuuper think that we should actually expand into a second nomad group this phase, given that that will put us in a position where we have two groups temporary-exhausting resources and a total of... 2 tiles to work with. Clayworking is also slightly difficult because we don't have the clay exploited, which will mean that it would have lesser spread than it could.

Instead, here is my proposal to make us better-prepared for being able to move into that tile next turn without running into problems courtesy of the wasps and bats:
Quote from: Improved Cave Homes
As the tribe covered new ground with new life, some problems inevitably began to show for those who frequented the wasp-infested area: not only was it uncomfortable enough as is to sleep in the hard caves of the cavernous land, with tribespeople usually piling loose, soft material into a place to sleep, but now tribespeople had to worry about being stung or attacked by wasps or bats in their sleep or when resting at what passed for home. The textiles of the lichen walls offered a solution to both of these problems. Ropeweavers experimenting with their patterns of weaving found a way to do so remarkably different from the thick ropes, instead, putting together a thinner fabric made of mats of the lichen twisted together to create a roughly solid mesh. These found a couple of immediately useful - firstly, they could be hung over cave entrances to prevent the entrance of pests into caves. Secondly, the fabric could be used to make more comfortable places to sleep, sit, and otherwise live, generally making life that little bit less brutal. The best thing is that as these fabrics are so much lighter than most other materials dealt with by the tribe, they could be carefully folded up and then moved with the tribe as it travelled.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 07, 2023, 08:43:32 pm
I think that's solid and it was something I was considering, but let me offer a competitor as well, in a more social organization direction:

Fireside Community
As we begin to settle into our new home, the social bonds that tie us together and allow us to pass knowledge through the generations become only more important. Our vision of the future demands that we maintain and deepen our tight-knit social fabric. To that end, we must delineate our notion of community space - of our home, which belongs to us, where we huddle together in safety - from the feared and unexplored depths. Here in the caverns, where the sun cannot define the rhythms of our life, clear communal rituals are still more crucial, lest we drift apart as individuals fulfilling our needs on our own schedules and barely acknowledging one another. The essence of civilization is fire, and the hearth has always been the centre of any tribal community; its light and warmth defines what we know as home. We shall build our great fire at the centre of our camp, and we shall gather around it as one people, in the warmth of flame and of family, sharing our food and stories, and this daily ritual will become the cornerstone of our tribal self-understanding.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Quarque on September 07, 2023, 10:00:11 pm
Here in the caverns, where the sun cannot define the rhythms of our life, clear communal rituals are still more crucial,
That is a really good point, biological clocks are utterly screwed. Can't believe I didn't realize this after playing DF.

It's got less immediate practical use than improved housing, but the absence of light and warmth feels like a physical pain if I try to imagine it.

Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 08, 2023, 01:00:36 am
Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (2) Quarque, A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 08, 2023, 01:55:30 am
We shall build our great fire at the centre of our camp
Question: with what fuel? As far as I can tell, our only fuel source is currently dried lichen; plentiful, but quick to burn up. Even in small torches, it doesn't last long- in a large, blazing camp fire, it will probably be gone in seconds. We'd need to stockpile entire caverns full of dried lichen, and have people shovelling it into the fire by the armload constantly. Even just smaller cooking fires are probably pushing the limits of practicality.
I definitely agree with the motive behind the proposal. However, I would expect it to come with a fuel upkeep, which we have no way of paying.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 08, 2023, 02:00:02 am
We shall build our great fire at the centre of our camp
Question: with what fuel? As far as I can tell, our only fuel source is currently dried lichen; plentiful, but quick to burn up. Even in small torches, it doesn't last long- in a large, blazing camp fire, it will probably be gone in seconds. We'd need to stockpile entire caverns full of dried lichen, and have people shovelling it into the fire by the armload constantly. Even just smaller cooking fires are probably pushing the limits of practicality.
I definitely agree with the motive behind the proposal. However, I would expect it to come with a fuel upkeep, which we have no way of paying.
Well, that's actually my next two planned proposals. :P
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Quarque on September 08, 2023, 03:20:36 am
Ouch, NUKE9.13 is absolutely right. As much as I like the campfire idea I just don't see how it is possible at this moment.

Rereading the nomad rules, even the improved housing is going to be somewhat difficult, because if we move M-17 for example, we immediately lose our source of textile.

Rereading the rules for nomadic lifestyle:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What this really boils down to is that generic resources like food are not a problem, but any sort of more specialized resource is hard to maintain constant access to. If a resource is limited to one particular tile, the exhaustion mechanic means that you have to move away from the tile after a few turns.

That makes me think that the underground lends itself very poorly to nomad play. In a place with abundant resources everywhere, you can live off the land just find. But in our caves, even basic items like textile are bound to be harder to find.

In addition, I feel that reinforcing our homes with granite would be much safer in this environment than tents made out of woven lichen. If there is one thing we have in abundance here, it is stone.

Quote from: Settle down
As our tribe gradually get accustomed to their subterranean environment, they transform it into their permanent dwelling. This transition marks a departure from their nomadic existence as they embrace the allure of the caverns.
In order to improve the safety of our Cave Homes, our people embark on the endeavor of crafting stone walls from interlocking boulders, a novel technique still in its early stages but brimming with potential.

Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (1) A_Curious_Cat
Settle Down: (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 08, 2023, 01:24:35 pm
I understand the fuel concern, but I don't really think we should be so quick to settle down. It's far from certain that we have the best or even a particularly good tile at the moment; I'd keep exploring for a while longer while we still have a lot of time before being a nomad becomes a problem. Besides, if we settle down now, we'd have to start actually working to exploit our resources, so it's not like we don't have the same problem either way.

I do think the problem with fuel is mildly exaggerated given that we're cave people with sharp vision who don't actually need a huge, blazing fire to adequately light an area when a bed of glowing coals would suffice. Still, having thought it over, I can see doing things I was already thinking about in a different order to make it easier, so, people who like my campfire idea, but are worried about getting fuel first, how about the following as an Expansion proposal instead?

Rockbreakers
You learn a lot about rocks, living in the caverns. Each type of rock has its own individual color, texture, even taste. One thing you might notice, if you pay attention, is that some rocks are harder than others. Take one of those harder rocks, give it a bit of a point, and hammer it against a softer one, and the softer rock breaks. Do that for long enough against the places where the cave walls themselves are softer, and you get a hole. Thus, a new skilled trade is born. Though their work can be dangerous and is certainly exhausting, the Rockbreakers, considered by some the new specialized elite of our society, are the first of our kind since we delved into the dark to be able to go where they choose and not just follow the routes nature has carved — provided the mineral veins cooperate.

Just to give you an idea where I'm going with this so you can decide whether you like my vision, my Exploitation proposal for next phase would then be:

Black Gold
Our Rockbreakers reported back an interesting finding: a seam of dark rock with a gritty and almost greasy texture never seen before. It's not too hard to break chunks of this new rock out of the seam using our stone tools, and, as the Rockbreakers were playing around with it, a small accident unveiled something totally unexpected: the black rock burns. The very idea of burning rocks like wood, something we could hardly have imagined before, can only be proof that the gods smile on us down here and have provided us with underground equivalents to the things we could not bring with us from above. If we can find more of this new kind of stone, having the ability to build fires with more than just a few bits of lichen as fuel again will be the first step to making this hole in the ground into a home.

This gives us, I think, a pretty solid footing toward developing things like mining and smelting which we'll need to make the most of the wealth of the deep Earth. My nice campfire idea could then fit into Experimentation or wait for another phase.
I do have two concerns about this, though. One is mechanical, and I hope Paperman will weigh in on it: I'm not actually sure if proposing a new kind of resource is an Exploitation-phase project. To me, the rules about the exploitation phase seem to imply it could be, but maybe we are only meant to propose ways to get resources there. Given that I had previously been thinking of mining itself as an exploitation-phase project and I just rewrote it as what seems to me like a perfectly reasonable expansion-phase social development, I'm not sure how firm the boundaries between the phase types are.
My other concern is: we're going to have to make sure we have plenty of ventilation.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 08, 2023, 02:20:29 pm
You can come up with proposals to help you locate or discover resources your people currently have no conceptual idea of (like metal being anything separate from rock), but you won’t be directly creating and placing them. I’m sure you guys could come up with some, ah, prospective ideas should you decide to expand your knowledge of stone.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 08, 2023, 02:28:59 pm
Yeah, okay. I was hoping I could at least target a specific thing if I didn't try to make that resource actually exist somewhere, but I'll have to make do. I still think either of my current proposals are solid.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 08, 2023, 02:41:17 pm
Rockbreakers sounds more like an Exploit phase development to me, but if it's a valid Expand action, I think I might support it. It might seem a bit early to start mining, but... we're going to need to do a lot of it over the coming ages, getting a head start can't hurt.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 08, 2023, 05:14:37 pm
Proposal: Bandages
Using textiles, you can bandage part of the wound using this bandage. This helps the body to recover by protecting the wound from bacteria, dirt, and damage. Thus, the healing process is less disturbed.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 08, 2023, 07:22:14 pm
Yeah, the textiles issue is tough - however, the saving grace with nomadism is that unless this has been changed and this wasn't mentioned (I am asking), there isn't actually anything stopping us from just exploiting the resource while NOT on the tile. Maybe we can even exploit the textiles next phase in such a way that lets us keep it more permanently.

Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (1) A_Curious_Cat
Settle Down: (1) Quarque
Improved Cave Homes: (1) Powder Miner
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Quarque on September 09, 2023, 12:23:45 am
I only see advantages to making a transition to settled civ as soon as possible. Addressing two concerns:

It's far from certain that we have the best or even a particularly good tile at the moment; I'd keep exploring for a while longer while we still have a lot of time before being a nomad becomes a problem.
As a settled civ you can build multiple settlements. If we find a great second spot for a settlement, we can get one there. All it takes is a single expansion action.
And our current tile is great for a settlement. It has three important basic resources right here: food, stone and textile. It also guards the entrance to above-ground.

Besides, if we settle down now, we'd have to start actually working to exploit our resources, so it's not like we don't have the same problem either way.
The longer we wait, the more difficult a transition becomes. If we do it now, we can take care of all of our consumption needs with the upcoming Exploitation action (exploit local food). Our clothing only requires access to textile, not exploitation.
But if we want to transition later into the game, it is bound to become more complicated.

The general trade-off involved in settling (as mentioned in the rule post) is faster progress and more resource stability at the cost of more resource consumption. We barely consume anything yet and both of these advantages are great to get early. Especially if we want to move into the direction of industry.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 09, 2023, 01:41:33 am
A couple points of clarification:

Quote
there isn't actually anything stopping us from just exploiting the resource while NOT on the tile.

Mentioned in discord, but there is something stopping exploitation of resources your tribe isn't on, and that's tech and related bonuses. While this is certainly a possibility later on, the tribe currently can only exploit resources within their borders, and their borders occupy one square.


Quote
If we do it now, we can take care of all of our consumption needs with the upcoming Exploitation action (exploit local food).

You're already exploiting everything on the tile you're on. That'll carry over if you settle that tile while living there. Now, if you expand your borders then the calculus changes, but this way the first settlement your people decide to form (if they do) shouldn't be immediately screwed unless the whole tribe votes to visit Heaven's Gate.


Quote
Our clothing only requires access to textile, not exploitation.

Exploitation is absolutely a requirement for access. What the clothing doesn't require is upkeep.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 09, 2023, 02:37:14 am
Do we need to move our tribe to M-17 before we can exploit it’s resources?

Edit:  reworded (also fixed autocorrect…)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Quarque on September 09, 2023, 02:46:23 am
Do we need to move our tribe to M-17 before we can exploit it’s resources?
Based on what Man of Paper said above and on Discord: with our current technology, the answer is yes. Plus we lose our currently exploited resources if we move there.

You're already exploiting everything on the tile you're on. That'll carry over if you settle that tile while living there.
This means that a transition now is easier than it ever will be in the future.

Settling down is the strongest option we have at this moment to accelerate technological progress and stabilize resource income. I really don't see why we would want to remain Nomads in the caves. If we had started in the river biome I could see the appeal.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 09, 2023, 02:50:19 am
Do we need to move the tribe to a tile before we can settle down on it?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Quarque on September 09, 2023, 02:50:54 am
edit: eh, I misunderstood your question, sorry - I think we can only settle on a tile we occupy as nomads, yeah.

But note that we can always build new additional settlements later.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 09, 2023, 02:53:57 am
I'm not seeing why you think the choice biome matters to being a nomad. I see no obvious reason to think that the distribution of resources on tiles is any different.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 09, 2023, 03:14:34 am
You're already exploiting everything on the tile you're on. That'll carry over if you settle that tile while living there.
This means that a transition now is easier than it ever will be in the future.

How so?  Why (specifically) would settling down later be more difficult?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Quarque on September 09, 2023, 03:28:09 am
I'm not seeing why you think the choice biome matters to being a nomad. I see no obvious reason to think that the distribution of resources on tiles is any different.
Basic commodities like a variety of plants, animals to hunt and trees are everywhere above ground. That was true even in the last game, which took place in a savannah. We typically had a list of various food sources and often some wood on every tile. In the caves we had a single source of food on both tiles so far and no wood at all.

Which is not a complaint about the game, it makes perfect sense.

How so?  Why (specifically) would settling down later be more difficult?
Right now it is obvious that the resources in our current tile are more than sufficient for our needs after the transition.
But once our society grows and consumes more, that may not be clear at all, because the one disadvantage of settling down is increased consumption.

Looking at it from the other side: what is the advantage of remaining Nomads? It slows down progress, complicates resource management and introduces a risk of losing resources permanently.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 09, 2023, 04:02:15 am
Basic commodities like a variety of plants, animals to hunt and trees are everywhere above ground. That was true even in the last game, which took place in a savannah. We typically had a list of various food sources and often some wood on every tile. In the caves we had a single source of food on both tiles so far and no wood at all.

Which is not a complaint about the game, it makes perfect sense.
Okay, but we can see what the starting resources for all the other biomes would have been, and, in the absence of any possible proof of what would have been, it looks to me like this is more of a balance change. I mean, sure, we don't have wood, we have more stone and textiles instead (we could even have had other things like whalebone, depending), but all the resource lists are roughly comparable. So, to be sure, the resources are going to be different, but it's not at all obvious to me, just based on THIS game, that the abundances are any different. Although we should definitely learn to start digging as soon as possible.

In fact, my intuition would be that, in general, in caves, where resource availability is likely to be limited in any particular spot and useful resources (like ore veins, for example) may be widely spread, being a nomad would be more useful. Just to take the current state as an example, if one tile has textiles and a different tile has clay, you'd want to move between the two, making enough of what you can make at each place to last for the time you will be away.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 09, 2023, 08:28:43 am
I'd say that I can see where Quarque is coming from, but that to immediately settle down seems too hasty. Next turn would be the earliest I would contemplate doing so.

I think our priority should be to expand our reach, and I think Rockbreakers or something like it would help with that. Since MoP hasn't indicated it is invalid, I'm going to vote for it.
(Perhaps include wording about it being used to make existing passages easier to traverse, by getting rid of obstacles, widening gaps, and carving hand/foot-holds in steep sections)

Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (1) A_Curious_Cat
Settle Down: (1) Quarque
Improved Cave Homes: (1) Powder Miner
Rockbreakers: (1) NUKE9.13
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 09, 2023, 09:02:18 am
Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (1) A_Curious_Cat
Settle Down: (1) Quarque
Improved Cave Homes: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Rockbreakers: (1) NUKE9.13,
Right now I think improved Cave homes is a better idea than my bandages idea.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Quarque on September 09, 2023, 09:16:48 am
Prioritizing range first is very reasonable. If you modify the Rockbreaker proposal a little to emphasize easier passage I will vote for it.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 09, 2023, 09:23:13 am
Prioritizing range first is very reasonable. If you modify the Rockbreaker proposal a little to emphasize easier passage I will vote for it.

I’ll probably do the same.  Otherwise, I’ll probably vote for Improved Cave Homes.


Unvoting

Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (0)
Settle Down: (1) Quarque
Improved Cave Homes: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Rockbreakers: (1) NUKE9.13,
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 09, 2023, 04:57:48 pm
I can't say that I really understand why that would make or break your willingness to vote for it. It's already clearly about "go[ing] where [we] choose and not just follow[ing] the routes nature carved". It seems to me that any further detail is unnecessary.

That said, would you accept something like...

Rockbreakers
You learn a lot about rocks, living in the caverns. Each type of rock has its own individual color, texture, even taste. One thing you might notice, if you pay attention, is that some rocks are harder than others. Take one of those harder rocks, give it a bit of a point, and hammer it against a softer one, and the softer rock breaks. Do that for long enough against the places where the cave walls themselves are softer, and you get a hole. Thus, a new skilled trade is born. Though their work can be dangerous and is certainly exhausting, the Rockbreakers, considered by some the new specialized elite of our society, are the first of our kind since we delved into the dark to be able to go where they choose and not just follow the routes nature has carved — provided the mineral veins cooperate. With hard stones in hand, they set to work throughout our tunnels, not only opening wholly new paths, but also smoothing the way, carving ramps into stairs, widening tight spots, and generally doing what they can to make travel easier for the rest of us.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Quarque on September 09, 2023, 07:39:41 pm
Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (0)
Settle Down: (0)
Improved Cave Homes: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Rockbreakers: (2) NUKE9.13, Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 09, 2023, 07:45:09 pm
Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (0)
Settle Down: (0)
Improved Cave Homes: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Rockbreakers: (3) NUKE9.13, Quarque, Maximum Spin
Of course.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 09, 2023, 08:21:05 pm
Looks good to me.

Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (0)
Settle Down: (0)
Improved Cave Homes: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Rockbreakers: (4) NUKE9.13, Quarque, Maximum Spin, A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand I]
Post by: chubby2man on September 10, 2023, 11:50:08 am

Quote from: votebox without an original name
Fireside Community: (0)
Settle Down: (0)
Improved Cave Homes: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Rockbreakers: (5) NUKE9.13, Quarque, Maximum Spin, A_Curious_Cat, C2M
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 13, 2023, 10:19:00 pm
Expansion I: Rock And Stone (Roll: 9)

The tribe's descent into the underground had held them at the absolute mercy of geological events that had unfolded well before the first human came about. One of the Founding Families sought to change that (Maximum Spin +1I). Being surrounded by stone afforded the tribe ample opportunity to examine, manipulate, and identify differences in the materials making up the caves for everyone. Even if they didn't want to study the stones as intensely as some of the more passionate individuals, it was impossible for anyone to outright avoid learning something useful. Members of the tribe were encouraged to focus on specific aspects of "stonebreaking", resulting in highly specialized individuals spread out among a variety of crafts. Some took to carving paths through the stone, forcing softer materials to bend to their whims, while others saw the beauty of delicate work, slowly chipping away at and smoothing out the surfaced their tribe would be forced to interact with on a regular basis. Commonly used and known safe routes quickly became easily identifiable by the smooth floors and walls and stepped slopes. The markings used previously didn't get entirely discarded, with the system expanded to identify what kind of area the path led to (foraging, burial, etc.) and then a repeating pattern of the appropriate shape carved into the walls at about waist level. Excess stone removed from excavations is dumped down caverns and crevasses to prevent buildup or obstruction of the tribe's tunnels.

Improving the available natural "infrastructure" has immense benefit for everyone stuck in the dark underearth, granting any member of the tribe the ability to travel with relative ease and a certainty in their location and destination that was entirely absent before. It has also provided the tribe with greater access to stone-based resources, increasing the threshold before a Technology goes from requiring access to requiring upkeep. Additionally, your people have discovered a new type of "stone" in their home territory: Native Silver, which they largely ignore as it is too soft to be useful.

RESOURCE IDENTIFIED
16-M
Native Silver Vein (Stone?)


NEW DISCOVERIES
Stonebreakers: Your tribe is intimately familiar with various properties of stone, and have a chance to identify an additional stone (or "stone") based resource when exploring or settling a new area. The digging out, smoothing, and marking of tunnels for regular usage also makes all forms of travel easier. Scouts also benefit from the ability to dig around/through obstacles. Exploration Range +1. Exploitation Range extends +1 beyond borders. Only applicable to underground actions.


Your people have spent a good few years barely subsisting within the cave network, and the first fully-caveborn individuals are starting to mature. While, biologically speaking, there have been no changes to their bodies to facilitate an improved life in the darkness underground, they still find themselves better able to navigate the only environment they've ever known.


TECHNOLOGY MODIFIED
Cave Adaptation->Advanced Cave Adaptation

Advanced Cave Adaptation: A slowly growing percentage of the population has never seen the surface - or the sky. The tribe has greatly heightened senses, although sensitive eyes make the surface less than desirable during the day, and the lack of a ceiling overhead might be extremely unsettling at any time of day.


It is now the Exploitation Phase. Remember that you can choose a resource to begin exploiting in a neighboring area, or propose a development that would facilitate or build upon your ability to gather, identify, or otherwise interact with the resources of the world around you.

Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Quarque on September 13, 2023, 10:35:48 pm
ok I will propose the obvious: exploit the Hearty Anasazi Bean Poles from 17-M for a more varied diet.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 14, 2023, 12:05:31 am
Exploit Textile at 16M

The idea here is to establish a permanent exploitation of our textiles (which even as is provide us with ropes, let alone what they CAN do) that won't disappear even as we move off of the tile. This lets us settle anywhere in the central ring, now, and dodge the temporary resource exhaustion from sticking around in one place too long, without losing textile access.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 14, 2023, 11:18:36 am
Quote from: Vote "I think the not naming it just votebox is for when there are Major and Minor families, since those voteboxes need to be distinguished" box
Exploit the Hearty Anasazi Bean Poles from 17-M:
Exploit Textile at 16M: (1) NUKE9.13
It does seem likely that we will want to move around next turn, and that finding more textile sources underground is a risky gamble.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Quarque on September 14, 2023, 11:36:56 am
Maybe we should call this perma-exploiting to distinguish it from normal exploiting.

Quote from: Votebox
Exploit Textile at 16M: (2) NUKE9.13, Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 14, 2023, 01:57:48 pm
Quote from: Votebox
(Semi-Permanently) Exploit Textile at 16M: (3) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13, Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: chubby2man on September 14, 2023, 02:17:10 pm
 
Quote from: Votebox
(Semi-Permanently) Exploit Textile at 16M: (4) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13, Quarque, C2M

The chubby family just watching in disappointment as I consign them to the dustbin of minor familyhood.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 14, 2023, 03:36:06 pm

Quote from: Votebox
(Semi-Permanently) Exploit Textile at 16M: (4) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13, Quarque, C2M

The chubby family just watching in disappointment as I consign them to the dustbin of minor familyhood.
Same
Quote from: Votebox
(Semi-Permanently) Exploit Textile at 16M: (5) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13, Quarque, C2M, Crystalizedmire
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 14, 2023, 03:49:46 pm
While there's nothing wrong with that idea, I wonder whether we could do a Proposal to just increase our auto-exploitation range. Something like...

Bringers (builds on: Subterranean Migrations, Stonebreakers)
Soon after the recent improvements in the development of our tunnel network, some enterprising youths took an eye toward climbing the social ladder and devised a new way to make themselves valuable in the eyes of others, through the simple expedient of carrying things from place to place on request so their elders don't have to. When this proved an effective path to garner respect, it didn't take long to expand into a full-fledged network of couriers with an in-depth understanding of the local under-geography. These Bringers always stand at the ready at every tunnel junction, to make sure resources within the bounds of their awareness will be Brought to where they need to go, wherever that might be.

Is that something that would work?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 14, 2023, 05:08:56 pm
Nope, that there would be entirely too much of a snowball.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Quarque on September 14, 2023, 07:31:44 pm
The chubby family just watching in disappointment as I consign them to the dustbin of minor familyhood.
Same
Understand the feeling, same here. I hope you guys still enjoy the ride enough to keep playing. I love this game and it needs us minors to stay alive.

After letting it sink in I'm still going to vote for my own proposal. Is it the proper min-max play? Absolutely not.
But right now our people are surviving on a diet of smelly cave fish and *checks notes*.. hairy lichen.

Quote from: Votebox
(Semi-Permanently) Exploit Textile at 16M: (4) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13, C2M, Crystalizedmire
Exploit the Hearty Anasazi Bean Poles from 17-M: (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 14, 2023, 08:37:40 pm
Would a proposal such as this be any good?

Net-working (builds on: Primitive Ropemaking)
We have quite a bit of experience with ropes and how to use them.  As such we have learned to make a multitude of knots.  In the course of countless experiments we have come upon one or more knots that have allowed us to create nets.  At first these were mostly for safety, allowing us to create artificial barriers.  However, we quickly learned to create thinner cords and to use them to create more flexible nets with smaller holes, which has allowed us to create items such as mesh bags for carrying items from place to place, as well as to create fishing nets.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: Quarque on September 15, 2023, 10:50:59 am
Would a proposal such as this be any good?
It is creative and a nice idea, but min-max gaming wise, I'm afraid it's not what's needed right now.

We only have one limited source of textile right now, while we have enough food (although it is pretty gross) and can quite easily forage more. Using textile for more food is currently not really attractive.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit I]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on September 15, 2023, 08:16:21 pm
Haven't been checking this game lately but just adding to the wagon


Quote from: Votebox
(Semi-Permanently) Exploit Textile at 16M: (5) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13, C2M, Crystalizedmire, TCK
Exploit the Hearty Anasazi Bean Poles from 17-M: (1) Quarque
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 15, 2023, 08:35:50 pm
Exploitation I: Lichen

Having not completely abandoned their nomadic ties (even if long-distance migration hasn't happened in the near-recent history of the tribe), one Family thought it would be a smart move to prepare their people for continued collection of the Hairy Lichen Walls they currently made use of even if the tribe moved on (Powder Miner +1I). This task would undoubtedly benefit from the usage of Stonebreaker markings, allowing the tribe the opportunity to continue harvesting the food and textile resources provided by the lichen with no interruptions.

The Hairy Lichen Walls in 17-M are now considered Semi-Permanently Exploited. If the tribe moves out of their Exploitation range from the area, then they will cease exploitation and require another action to start gathering again should the lichen reenter their Exploitation radius. Should the tribe settle with resources marked as Semi-Permanently Exploited then those will also be automatically exploited by the settlement much like the resources on the square they've settled. Semi-Permanently Exploited resources can be easily identified in the Resources By Region spoiler with an [SP] tag.

Your tribe is now no longer immune from Nomadic Exhaustion of resources in this location until they move. Beginning next Exploitation Phase you will have to choose a resource to exhaust if you remain within 17-M.


It is now the Experimentation Phase. This will represent the largest potential leap in knowledge that your people will have in a turn. Unlike the other phases, proposals for new advancements in the Experimentation Phase do not need to be in any way related to an existing technology or piece of knowledge. These proposals are meant to be your steps into or creation of new fields of research and industry - metalworking, democracy, and nuclear power are all likely things you will be able to do during as Experiments. Keep in mind though that while the new knowledge does not need to be directly connected, you still need to build proper foundations. Trying to make a space shuttle before you grasp sailing might be a little odd, and making a submarine before you can utilize metals might be even odder. These crazy things may still be possible, but your society is going to need to develop in such a way that a nonmetal submarine is a viable and sane idea that the population would be willing to adopt. And remember, chosen proposals in this phase give 2 Influence as opposed to 1!


Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 15, 2023, 09:02:11 pm
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics (Builds on: Early Firemaking, Requires access to: Clay)

After experimenting with the strange soil in 17-M, we have found that we can for it into any shape that we want.  Leaving the items in this form, however, leaves it soft and prone to being dissolved by liquids.  Further experimentation has shown that if we burn the items in a pit along with some hairy lichen, the items become hard and more resistant to liquids (they can still be seriously damage if exposed to liquid long enough and any liquid they contain will eventually leak out very slowly).  We have also found that, if we make and “fire” one of these in the form of a container with an open top and solid sides and a solid floor (which we call a pot), that they will retain water long enough for us to boil it (this requires us to separate the pot from the fire using stones so that the flames aren’t directly touching the pot, otherwise the pot will crack from the heat of the flames; also, as mentioned above, the water will eventually leak out if left in the pot long enough).  Finally, we have found that certain things that we previously couldn’t eat become edible when boiled in a pot (we also find that we can (optionally) boil many other food that doesn’t otherwise need to be boiled).
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 15, 2023, 11:00:12 pm
Succession harvesting?
After observing the hairy lichen, we've observed that when left alone it grows. So reducing the amount of lichen we harvest, we're able to leave behind a patch of lichen. The lichen eventually grows large enough that we can harvest a lot of it again. This will eventually grow into a pattern of harvesting and waiting for it to grow, allowing us a stable supply of hairy lichen. We've also learned that this (sorta) applies to other plants. For example, if we leave behind some beanpoles, our beanpoles will basically restock(in theory, this has not been put into practice yet).
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 16, 2023, 12:03:39 am
Quote
Soul-scouts
It does not take much intelligence to ponder the nature of death. Even primitive hominids treated their dead with respect, believing on some level that an element of the departed persisted. As to the what, how, and why of such post-life existences, it seems like every culture developed their own answers. Before we entered the caves, we too had beliefs regarding death and the afterlife. However, these were quickly discarded. Because where others speculate, we can observe. We can visit the Whispering Lake, and witness a stream of souls siphoned from the world above pour into that vast reservoir- one which drains directly into the afterlife. We can delve into The Depths to 'hear' the cries of those denied access to the afterlife, instead left to drift aimlessly in the miasma until their souls degrade into nothing.
Mourning Dew is simply condensed souls. It is only here, where the souls of the dead congregate, that it is so dense that even the untrained can experience it. By tuning their senses through prolonged exposure to the Dew, some of us have learned to see individual souls. They have seen the souls of the dead gradually detach from the corpse, to then slowly drift towards the Whispering Lake.
But that's not all. Those whose senses are more attuned to souls can not just see them more clearly, they can 'hear' them more clearly as well. Most of the souls that make up the Mourning Dew are indistinguishable, having all-but completely lost their identity. Their spectral presence remains, but they have nothing to say, and just drift along with the current. Other souls retain a modicum of presence, but do little more than whisper unintelligibly- and at present, we have no way of 'talking back', so we can't exactly ask them questions (such passive souls don't even appear to be aware of our presence). However, on rare occasions, a particularly 'loud' soul will be encountered- they retain a strong identity, and seem to actively draw energy from the more passive souls in the Dew, making them a lot easier to see and 'hear'. This is how we know that those in The Depths were denied entrance to the afterlife- we have 'heard' some of them complain about it. By the sounds of it, there isn't exactly a gatekeeper, but there is a barrier- at the very bottom of the Whispering Lake- that some souls are unable to pass through.

Great, cool, so what? Whining spirits are interesting, but not very useful, or relevant. Ah, but here's the thing. We can't ask these 'wild' souls questions. But we can ask those of us about to die questions. And, especially in the case of those who are Attuned, they will retain the question after they die, and can offer answers to us (the souls of the Attuned are also easier to hear). For example, we can ask an Attuned on the verge of death to tell us what they see after they pass. Turns out, souls can see things we can't. They can see through (some) stone. They can see ponds full of crayfish or curtains of lichen in a distant cavern, and give us directions. They can sometimes see stranger things, things we don't speak about.
While souls are generally inclined to drift towards the Whispering Lake, they don't have to. Thus, our soul-scouts can follow our living scouts around (in a macabre twist, it's easier for them to follow if we carry part of their corpse with us), and call out interesting things as they spot them. While the number of Attuned we have is limited (not everyone can afford to- or dares to- spend days on end immersing themselves in Mourning Dew), most soul-scouts are willing to serve the good of the tribe in death for years (before finally announcing they are too tired to continue, and making their way to the Whispering Lake).
It would be even better if the communication was a two-way thing, but c'est la mort. 


GOALS:
-Defining the nature of Mourning Dew
-Establishing the Attuned, starting on the path of communing with the dead (perhaps controlling later). Might have a Mourning Dew upkeep, at the very least a Mourning Dew access requirement, to represent the cost of training.
-Soul-scouts to aid in exploration, letting us explore areas more quickly/thoroughly.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 16, 2023, 01:26:21 am
Can we just... declare what the dew is like that?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Quarque on September 16, 2023, 01:58:45 am
NUKE has written up an awesome idea as usual, but it is honestly a little too good to my taste. Messing with the dead sounds dangerous and terrifying, and turning the souls of the deceased into a prospect tool without a real drawback feels a little cheesy in my opinion.

Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics is something I would love to see eventually, but right I am afraid that burning lichen at the necessary scale puts too much of a strain on a currently limited resource (it already serves as food, fuel and textile). Same problem as with communal fires.

Succession harvesting is not a bad idea at all. With the lack of photosynthesis down here, plant material is very likely a long term constraint. I feel we can't go wrong taking an early step toward farming.

Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (1) Quarque
Soul-scouts: (0)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 16, 2023, 02:30:23 am
NUKE has written up an awesome idea as usual, but it is honestly a little too good to my taste. Messing with the dead sounds dangerous and terrifying, and turning the souls of the deceased into a prospect tool without a real drawback feels a little cheesy in my opinion.
So, on the one hand, MoP has never been shy about introducing unexpected downsides to proposals that roll poorly, so it probably isn't required for us to include one ourselves. On the other, I wouldn't mind giving MoP a helping hand in suggesting a direction for drawbacks, so if anyone has a suggestion, I'd be willing to give a nod to a potential pitfall. I did include a line about 'strange things we don't talk about', which could potentially serve as a hook for Bad Consequences, but more can't hurt. I mean, it can hurt, that's literally the point, but... you know what I mean.

Can we just... declare what the dew is like that?
MoP literally asked us to (in the exploration results, for instance), so I would say yes.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 16, 2023, 02:32:37 am
While I'm interested in experimenting on the dew (and I also feel like farming is a natural extension of gathering and probably something we can do during a regular Exploit phase), I don't prefer the direction Nuke is taking it. I'd like more information on just how specific we are expected to get about it before I try to make an alternative, but my provisional preliminary proposal is something like...

Do the Dew (Uses: Mourning Dew)
Taking advantage of the continued failure of our society to have developed independent ethics review boards, we have offered several terminally elderly volunteers from the various Families the opportunity to imbibe Mourning Dew, in order to learn what we can about its effects and hopefully dispel some of the superstitious mystery surrounding it, or possibly make it worse.

Which I'll flesh out as appropriate.


MoP literally asked us to (in the exploration results, for instance), so I would say yes.
I didn't really interpret "defining the interaction between our people and the dew" as defining what it is and does, myself.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 16, 2023, 06:38:31 am
MoP literally asked us to (in the exploration results, for instance), so I would say yes.
I didn't really interpret "defining the interaction between our people and the dew" as defining what it is and does, myself.
From the Resources spoiler in the OP:
"Special Resources are resources only found in large concentrations in very specific areas of the world. These Special Resources defy our own laws of the physical universe and can lead to very creative and interesting advancements. Special Resources have undefined reactions, allowing players to come up with unique solutions to whatever problems might arise. The base form of a special resource does not mean other forms would be ineffective or impossible: it is up to you to define what the liquid form of your special gas can do. Special Resources are the only ones you will be made aware of before you have the capacity to gather or utilize them."
In previous MoP games, players were given significant leeway to invent properties and interactions for Special Resources, though MoP always reserved the right to have them do something else in the event of a poor roll or overreach.

Quote
Do the Dew (Uses: Mourning Dew)
Taking advantage of the continued failure of our society to have developed independent ethics review boards, we have offered several terminally elderly volunteers from the various Families the opportunity to imbibe Mourning Dew, in order to learn what we can about its effects and hopefully dispel some of the superstitious mystery surrounding it, or possibly make it worse.
While I can't speak for MoP, I'm fairly confident he won't accept this, precisely because it is our burden to say what we want the Dew to do (and his privilege to tell us it does something catastrophic instead when we roll a 1). 



Regarding Quarque's desire for more (potential) downsides, I wrote a thing that I was thinking of adding to the proposal.
Quote
It is worth noting that to become Attuned is not always successful.
In some cases, the candidate is simply unable to adapt- their mind too rigidly locked into a material worldview, no amount of exposure is enough to attune them.
In worse cases, the attempt will result in the candidate becoming catatonic, as their own soul proves too weak to withstand the overwhelming levels of spectral energy it is exposed to. The living soul is eroded of its identity and subsumed into the Dew, leaving the body a soulless husk.
The worst case scenario involves particularly strong malicious spirits. Though thankfully quite rare, some souls violently reject the fact of their death, and actively attempt to enter into the bodies of those who immerse themselves in the Dew. In most cases, the resident living soul is far too well entrenched to be kicked out, but when combined with the previous case of the living soul being weakened, the malicious spirit can successfully possess the candidate's body. This would be unfortunate for the former candidate, but to make matters worse, this invariably results in a violent end. For the body itself rejects the intruding soul, causing the possessed to lash out at 'themselves' and others, scratching and biting in an insane rampage until they perish (be it by their own hand or by others defending themselves).
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 16, 2023, 07:30:03 am
Nuke is correct on all counts pertaining to mechanics. I wouldn’t listen to him about bicycle safety though.

This has been “callback to an old conversation” starring MoP.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 16, 2023, 09:29:30 am
Since everyone is giving their proposals on our ghost mist, here is my proposal:
Dew for the Dead
The mourning dew whispers to us. Some swore up and down that they heard voices of the recently deceased in them too. So assuming the accounts are true, this means that the ghosts of the dead congregate there seemingly to just talk. So we should bring our dead there(their bodies to be specific) so they wouldn't have to walk so much to hang out with other ghosts. And some accounts said the mourning dew talks about the living too. So maybe we should talk about the dead as they talk about the living. Every time someone dies, we talk about them. We share stories of what they did in life while two people carry their body toward the mist. One of them is a family member or close friend to the dead while the other is a person who could hear the souls of the recent past. The first person(if they could not hear the ghosts) asks a question and the soul hearer would answer the question according to what the ghost said. This makes us close together and our dead closer to us.

I still think my succession harvest proposal is better because we'll probably need a lot of hairy lichens.
Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (1) Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Soul-scouts: (0)
Do the Dew: (0)
Dew for the Dead: (0)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 16, 2023, 09:31:32 am
Since everyone is giving their proposals on our ghost mist, here is my proposal:
Dew for the Dead
The mourning dew whispers to us. Some swore up and down that they heard voices of the recently deceased in them too. So assuming the accounts are true, this means that the ghosts of the dead congregate there seemingly to just talk. So we should bring our dead there(their bodies to be specific) so they wouldn't have to walk so much to hang out with other ghosts. And some accounts said the mourning dew talks about the living too. So maybe we should talk about the dead as they talk about the living. Every time someone dies, we talk about them. We share stories of what they did in life while two people carry their body toward the mist. One of them is a family member or close friend to the dead while the other is a person who could hear the souls of the recent past. The first person(if they could not hear the ghosts) asks a question and the soul hearer would answer the question according to what the ghost said.

I still think my succession harvest proposal is better because we'll probably need a lot of hairy lichens.
Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (1) Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Soul-scouts: (0)
Do the Dew: (0)
Dew for the Dead: (0)
Forgot to change the vote counter:
Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (2) Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Soul-scouts: (0)
Do the Dew: (0)
Dew for the Dead: (0)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 16, 2023, 11:09:35 am
I am a pretty big fan of the soul scouts but would much rather it be without the drawbacks text as the idea of the benevolent dead is I think what I’m generally looking for.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 16, 2023, 12:12:31 pm
To note, I've made a slight edit to the soul-scouts proposal, in the third paragraph. It's not significant, just adding a third category of soul that is totally indistinguishable.
I haven't added the drawback I proposed, since Powder doesn't think it's necessary, and I'm fine either way. I'm still open to discussing it, of course. If it really comes down to it, I could make two versions, but I'll stick with one for now.
Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (2) Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Soul-scouts: (1) NUKE9.13
Do the Dew: (0)
Dew for the Dead: (0)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 16, 2023, 12:57:50 pm
While I can't speak for MoP, I'm fairly confident he won't accept this, precisely because it is our burden to say what we want the Dew to do (and his privilege to tell us it does something catastrophic instead when we roll a 1).
Well, I very specifically said it wasn't done. I just wanted to post the part I'd already written so that I wouldn't forget it. I did figure it had to have more.

All right, this is what I personally want it to do:

Do the Dew (Uses: Mourning Dew)
Taking advantage of the continued failure of our society to have developed independent ethics review boards, we have offered several terminally elderly volunteers from the various Families the opportunity to imbibe Mourning Dew, in order to learn what we can about its effects and hopefully dispel some of the superstitious mystery surrounding it, or possibly make it worse.

Truthfully, we had no idea what to expect. Some of us — some of them, even — expected that they would die. They did not.

Well, they were all very old and infirm, which is why they signed up for something so dangerous in the first place. Before long, just in the natural order of things, we expected that they would die. They did not.

One man from the test group was severely injured in a rockfall accident. His body broken and bleeding and his breathing weak, we expected that he would die.

He did not.

Or maybe he did. It's a little difficult to say. The body is cold and the wound barely heals, but that didn't seem to stop him from dragging himself back out of bed and going about his business. All of the subjects have gone a little quiet and a little odd, but when they do speak, they're more lucid than they've been in years.
We don't really know, yet, just what the mourning dew is, and it's anyone's guess where it came from, but it seems to make it easier for the soul to hang on, somehow. It acts almost as a fixative, keeping souls from drifting off to wherever it is they would otherwise go — so the dead voices some have heard in the mist really are there, clinging to this world for whatever personal reasons they might have.

Given that all the volunteers joined this project out of a hope for a respite from death, we're pretty sure, or at least hoping, that the effect is voluntary and not permanent. Still, some of us are naturally a little uncomfortable with disrupting the natural process like this. For now, while we'll give people on the brink of death the chance to hang around in their bodies in the same way (especially those who are dying before their time), a less dramatic option also presents itself: by digging out a well in a secluded spot and filling it with water from the Lake, we were able to capture a little cloud of mourning dew above it, where our dead can stay as long as they feel like and pass on whatever messages or wisdom they want to share with the living who come to visit them. Although there's no reason to think the spirits can do anything else yet, some people have even started leaving small gifts for them, hoping for good luck and blessings.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 16, 2023, 04:00:05 pm
Edited Succession Harvesting to apply to crayfish too
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Quarque on September 16, 2023, 04:10:38 pm
Edited Succession Harvesting to apply to crayfish too
hmm it is not very clear to me how recognizing growth patterns in plants applies to fish. In order to make that work you'd need additional explanation. Honestly I would recommend to leave it out, better to do one thing and do it well.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 16, 2023, 04:12:31 pm
Okay, yeah you're right
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 17, 2023, 09:55:02 am
Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (2) Quarque, Crystalizedmire
Soul-scouts: (2) NUKE9.13, Powder Miner
Do the Dew: (0)
Dew for the Dead: (0)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 17, 2023, 11:18:12 am
Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (3) Quarque, Crystalizedmire, A_Curious_Cat
Soul-scouts: (2) NUKE9.13, Powder Miner
Do the Dew: (0)
Dew for the Dead: (0)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on September 17, 2023, 01:15:22 pm
Ask the dead for their opinions on memes as society progress
Also idea is pretty cool

Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (3) Quarque, Crystalizedmire, A_Curious_Cat
Soul-scouts: (3) NUKE9.13, Powder Miner, TCK
Do the Dew: (0)
Dew for the Dead: (0)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment I]
Post by: chubby2man on September 17, 2023, 04:36:02 pm


Quote from: votebox
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics: (0)
Succession harvesting: (3) Quarque, Crystalizedmire, A_Curious_Cat
Soul-scouts: (4) NUKE9.13, Powder Miner, TCK, C2M
Do the Dew: (0)
Dew for the Dead: (0)

Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 18, 2023, 09:48:47 pm
Experimentation I: Soulbound (Roll: 2)

Some members of the tribe had always been able to hear the voices that came from the Mourning Dew more than others, and with the discovery of The Whispering Lake they could finally hear clearly enough to understand them.

The spirits of the dead that made up the Mourning Dew were concentrated enough for the "Attuned" who were more sensitive to the voices to make out mutterings of freedom, of an eternal peace they were soon to receive, with occasional quips about random moments of their past lives. None of them seemed to stay around for long - days at most for any one voice - with no clear indication of where the voices would move onward to. Your tribe attempted to reach out and communicate with these passing souls, going as far as wading out into the lake itself, but to no avail.

Eventually one of the Attuned was on their deathbed and one of the Founding Families asked them to bring a message to the afterlife (Nuke9.13 -2I). They were asked to scout out the surface above the tribe, an easy enough task with details the tribe could at least verify independently. A few days after they passed away, the Attuned's voice was briefly added to the chorus flowing into the lake before they emerged from the mist as a roughly human-shaped cloud of Dew. The Attuned spirit moved with purpose through the tunnels to the surface using passages it had been very familiar with in life. Once it reached the surface it began to whisper, listing out everything it saw on the surface.

As the days passed and the spirit continued to comb over every centimeter of the surface, observers could see and hear the spirit become angrier. The entity's voice rose to a deep guttural shout by the tenth day, calling out every pebble in a roar that put fear into anyone who heard it echo across the wasteland. When another Attuned approached the screaming being in an attempt to reach out and calm it, they found themselves enveloped by the ghastly being, their life drained and corpse withered and curled up in mere moments. Another Attuned fell to the spirit after following from what used to be a safe distance, as the spirit seems to become more easily agitated as time goes on. While it is expected that the spirit will return to The Whispering Lake once its task is complete, counting every stone above the Tribal Cavern could take an actual eternity even without being bound to the physical realm. In the meantime, the tribe will have to endure the occasional scream echoing from the surface.

But at least the spirit was precise.


NEW DISCOVERIES
Attuned: Members of the tribe who are more sensitive to Mourning Dew. Requires access to Mourning Dew.
-Soul-Scouts: Attuned given a request upon their deathbed to scout out a nearby area. Currently too thorough, resulting in lethal "haunting" of the scouted area after a period of time. Provides very accurate data if followed from an ever-increasing safe distance. Soul-Scouts allow Exploration of a tile neighboring a previously Explored tile independent of any other Exploration action, and have a chance to discover additional resources. Soul-Scouts provide areas they Explore with the (Lethal Spirits) modifier and hamper any actions in the area unless otherwise dealt with. Requires 1 Mourning Dew Upkeep.


TERRITORY MODIFIED
16-M adds (Lethal Spirits [Surface]).

RESOURCES IDENTIFIED
16-M
Surface Granite (Stone x2) (Unavailable due to Lethal Spirits [Surface])


----


It is now the Exploration Phase. You may choose to make a proposal to develop for your people that could aid them in exploration in some way, or you can propose a route to explore. Thanks to Stonebreakers, you may choose to explore up to two tiles. These tiles must neighbor an already explored tile, and must connect to one another as well. Due to Soul-Scouts you may also choose to scout another tile neighboring a previously explored tile independent of any other action you take during the phase (at the cost of an angry ghost). When proposing exploration plans, be sure to include whether or not you will be deploying Soul-Scouts. For the purposes of this game, diagonal zones are considered neighboring.


Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on September 18, 2023, 10:30:56 pm
Let's not use the murders ghosts right now
Also maybe check out the island coast?

Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Quarque on September 18, 2023, 11:01:16 pm
Agree to not use ghosts.

I prefer to scout out nearby terrain first, before exploring distant tiles. It allows us to make use of our increased exploitation range and exploit more useful thing at once. Besides, if there's anything lurking nearby I'd like to know early.

Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 17-L and 16-L below ground: (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 18, 2023, 11:26:24 pm
Okay, I am now glad nobody preferred my idea. Keeping the spirits in our house could've gone so much worse. And also I would've lost influence.

I had some ideas for Explore proposals, but I ended up thinking we should look for more resources instead, so I'm down with Quark's suggestion, it makes a nice square.
Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 17-L and 16-L below ground: (2) Quarque, Maximum Spin
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 19, 2023, 05:56:30 am
Let's not use the murders ghosts right now
Agree to not use ghosts.
Please don't make my sacrifice be in vain. While the murder ghosts are likely to render a few resources in the tiles they explore inaccessible, we will find a way to deal with them eventually. We may still be able to harvest one or two resources from a square at a distance until we figure out a way to pacify them.
We can be fairly confident we aren't going to move out of the central ring for the next few turns at least, so using them to explore more distant tiles is even less likely to cause a headache.

Thus, my suggestion: Explore 17-N and 16-N, send Soul-Scouts to explore 18-N
(N versus L doesn't make a big difference, I just figured it'd make them easier to distinguish)
Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 17-L and 16-L below ground: (2) Quarque, Maximum Spin
Explore 17-N and 16-N, send Soul-Scouts to explore 18-N: (1) NUKE9.13
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Quarque on September 19, 2023, 06:56:13 am
Please don't make my sacrifice be in vain.
I'm sorry that your creative project went badly, but let's not fall for the sunk cost fallacy. ("throwing good money after bad")

While the murder ghosts are likely to render a few resources in the tiles they explore inaccessible, we will find a way to deal with them eventually. We may still be able to harvest one or two resources from a square at a distance until we figure out a way to pacify them.
We can be fairly confident we aren't going to move out of the central ring for the next few turns at least, so using them to explore more distant tiles is even less likely to cause a headache.
Yes, we will find a solution. But until we do, actively adding more ghosts is a risky play that I wouldn't recommend. The update indicates that their range of activity increases, after all. Adding more ghosts means we burden ourselves with a big problem that we must urgently solve, whereas the single surface ghost we have so far is still manageable.
If we're dealing with two or more ghosts, with some of them haunting the caves, a second bad roll on the solution would get us into deep trouble.

I don't feel the reward (fairly limited additional scouting) is worth such a risk.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 19, 2023, 07:58:31 am
The update indicates that their range of activity increases, after all.
This is a misinterpretation. I just asked MoP:
Quote
NUKE9.13
Does this line
"Provides very accurate data if followed from an ever-increasing safe distance."
Mean that the ghosts will expand into neighbouring tiles,
or does it just mean that as they grow more irate with their lot we have to be more careful about asking them what they've seen (until they eventually snap, and can no longer be safely contacted)?
Man of Paper
The second one
You didn’t make a world ending ghost plague (yet)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 19, 2023, 10:09:32 am
I think I agree with NUKE’s logic about the soulscouts. However, I want to note that the lethal spirits we do presently have being on the surface above the Tribal Cavern makes me *very* nervous. Accordingly, the way I see it, we’re stuck between two gambles - sticking on the spot where the soulscout is, or hoping we happen to run into rock (the chance thankfully boosted by rockbreakers, at least) wherever we move to.

I’m going to make a proposition for the latter, which lets us avoid losing any resources or getting ghost’d if we’re lucky and loses us our stone tools (but not our textiles) if we’re really unlucky.

Explore 16L, Explore 17L,move tribe to 17L. Soulscout-explore 18M.
Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 17-L and 16-L below ground: (2) Quarque, Maximum Spin
Explore 17-N and 16-N, send Soul-Scouts to explore 18-N: (1) NUKE9.13
Explore 16L and 17L, move tribe to 17L, Soulscout-Explore 18M: (1) Powder Miner
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 19, 2023, 11:05:40 am
While it is a bit of a gamble (that we get stone in our new tile), staying here with a ghost above us has a chance of putting us into full cave-adaption, which would be unfortunate. It'd be good to at least keep the option of doing stuff on the surface, even if we primarily stay under.
Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 17-L and 16-L below ground: (2) Quarque, Maximum Spin
Explore 16L and 17L, move tribe to 17L, Soulscout-Explore 18M: (2) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 19, 2023, 01:19:06 pm
Hm, that is pretty risky, but I have a high risk tolerance today.

The thing is, though, 18-M appears to be outside the mountain which means we may well have more reason to use that tile's surface. That might just be me misinterpreting the map, I guess, but still, just in case, I would probably direct the angry ghosts toward 16-N instead, especially since that's also further away from where we are moving - unless you're more interested in getting resources specifically within our current range, in which case I'd explore 18-M normally and 16-L with the ghosts.

I don't actually think, Nuke, that not using the ghosts this turn would make your sacrifice be in vain - we'd still use them, just not necessarily every opportunity - but I also don't think it's a big deal to use them as long as we stick to places we're not trying to occupy right this second.

If you're quite convinced that the resources in a ghosty tile won't be completely inaccessible - and it does seem likely we can at least use a proposal in another phase to send ghost-immune people to snatch them away if necessary (...I think I might just rewrite Bringers to be about that, sorry, I tend to recycle) - then I think the second of the strategies I wrote above is best.

Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 17-L and 16-L below ground: (1) Quarque
Explore 16L and 17L, move tribe to 17L, Soulscout-Explore 18M: (2) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13
Explore 18-M and 17-L, move tribe to 17-L, ghostsplore 16-L: (1) Maximum Spin
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 19, 2023, 01:43:20 pm
I don't actually think, Nuke, that not using the ghosts this turn would make your sacrifice be in vain
Minor note here, the sacrifice line was mostly a joke. I'm not all that interested in getting deep into politicking to try and become/stay a major family, so the loss of influence isn't a big deal. I do think it would be a shame to leave the advantage gained on the table, but not for personal reasons.

As for the rest of your post, the idea is that since we are tethered to the central tile by our lichen-exploitation, we probably won't want to migrate to a tile outside of the central ring anytime soon. Whereas if 16-L turns out to be a much better tile for us to live in, we may well want to migrate there in next turn's exploration phase.
I mean, it's probably mostly academic, since it seems like a lot of folks intend to (attempt to) fix the murderghost issue this turn. As such, I will stick with Powder's option for now, though if your option gets more votes I will probably switch over.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Quarque on September 19, 2023, 02:05:32 pm
As I said on Discord, I still want to fix the problem with the soulscouts first before using them. All it takes is to skip them for a single exploration phase. Not a big deal in the long run.

But if we're greedy here - insisting to immediately create another ghost (or god forbid more than one) and if we then roll a one on the attempt to deal with them, well. We asked for it. That's probably a spectacular disaster. It is only a 10% chance, still too much for my liking.

Now I realise I'm in this with dwarf fortress players and losing is !FUN! so.. if you guys want to live the Boatmurdered experience, let's go. But I'm not going to vote for it. (If someone else posts a proposal to explore & move without ghostsploring this turn I will vote for it for sure.)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 19, 2023, 03:09:02 pm
It looks like the mountain range either goes straight or bends upwards to the north(depending on how you interpret 17-L being described as a rocky wasteland). Both 17-N and 15-N are described as hilly grassland so chances are the mountain range does not continue southwards. I don't want to ghostplore before we've made a solution to angry ghosts. explore 16-N, 17-N, move to 17-N
Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 17-L and 16-L below ground: (1) Quarque
Explore 16L and 17L, move tribe to 17L, Soulscout-Explore 18M: (2) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13
Explore 18-M and 17-L, move tribe to 17-L, ghostsplore 16-L: (1) Maximum Spin
Explore 16-N, 17-N, move tribe to 17-N: (1) Crystalizedmire
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Quarque on September 19, 2023, 03:16:51 pm
Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 16L and 17L, move tribe to 17L, Soulscout-Explore 18M: (2) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13
Explore 18-M and 17-L, move tribe to 17-L, ghostsplore 16-L: (1) Maximum Spin
Explore 16-N, 17-N, move tribe to 17-N: (2) Crystalizedmire, Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 19, 2023, 03:27:40 pm
Minor note here, the sacrifice line was mostly a joke.
Yeah I know, I'm just referencing it.

Quote
As for the rest of your post, the idea is that since we are tethered to the central tile by our lichen-exploitation, we probably won't want to migrate to a tile outside of the central ring anytime soon. Whereas if 16-L turns out to be a much better tile for us to live in, we may well want to migrate there in next turn's exploration phase.
I guess? It seems more likely to me that we might find another textile source or even increase our exploitation range again before we find any really good reason to settle in that particular spot. After all, it's within our range for dropping exploit actions on anyway, so it'd have to be particularly worth living IN and not just near.

As I said on Discord, I still want to fix the problem with the soulscouts first before using them. All it takes is to skip them for a single exploration phase. Not a big deal in the long run.
Not that I'm against this, but this is the actual literal (except for not costing any money) definition of throwing good money after bad - instead of making the best of what we've got or just ignoring it altogether, we'd be spending another phase on it.

Quote
(If someone else posts a proposal to explore & move without ghostsploring this turn I will vote for it for sure.)
Why... don't you?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Quarque on September 20, 2023, 02:42:01 am
Not that I'm against this, but this is the actual literal (except for not costing any money) definition of throwing good money after bad - instead of making the best of what we've got or just ignoring it altogether, we'd be spending another phase on it.
We'll need to spend a phase on it at some point anyway to get rid of the surface ghost.

Quote
Why... don't you?
I stick to adding one proposal a phase, that's on the strict side but I don't want the game to devolve into a race who can spam all the ideas first. Anyway the option is in the votebox now.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 20, 2023, 02:50:38 am
We'll need to spend a phase on it at some point anyway to get rid of the surface ghost.
There's no law saying we can't just ignore it forever.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: Quarque on September 20, 2023, 03:23:40 am
That is an option in theory. But I wouldn't really want to leave a threat next door without having a way to deal with it if necessary. Man of Paper clarified that yeah the ghost isn't increasing range like I interpreted it at first, but he didn't promise that the ghost will be a good boy and stay where it is forever, regardless of future circumstances. Not to mention that we might want to use the passage for some reason.
Anyway, as long as we're not breeding more lions before inventing any weapons I'm happy. Or if we do I'm also happy but in a more gleeful way. ;)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: chubby2man on September 20, 2023, 12:12:44 pm

Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 16L and 17L, move tribe to 17L, Soulscout-Explore 18M: (2) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13
Explore 18-M and 17-L, move tribe to 17-L, ghostsplore 16-L: (1) Maximum Spin
Explore 16-N, 17-N, move tribe to 17-N: (3) Crystalizedmire, Quarque, C2M
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 20, 2023, 03:57:12 pm
Quote from: VoteBox
Explore 18-M, and 19-M (1): TCK
Explore 16L and 17L, move tribe to 17L, Soulscout-Explore 18M: (2) Powder Miner, NUKE9.13
Explore 18-M and 17-L, move tribe to 17-L, ghostsplore 16-L: (1) Maximum Spin
Explore 16-N, 17-N, move tribe to 17-N: (4) Crystalizedmire, Quarque, C2M, A_Curious_Cat
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Man of Paper on September 24, 2023, 06:29:09 pm
Exploration II: Moving On

Your people, nomadic by nature even if stuck underground, itched to pick up and move once again. To see different cave walls. To hear how dripping water echoes in different caverns. A small group stayed behind to continue harvesting the hairy lichen, with runners bringing the resource to the tribe as it moved through the caves and toward a new home.

At the instruction of one of the Founding Families (Crystalizedmire +1I), a general direction was chosen for the migration to occur. The tribe packed their things and headed south into 16-N. With Stonebreakers traveling a couple days ahead of the rest of the tribe, paths could be widened, carved, and smoothed out to ease travel as they went. Small groups would break off from the main party to explore forks and branches in the paths they took, and eventually one of these teams found themselves led by a curious light. Following the glow led them to three massive interconnected caverns that each required days to comb through. Glowing Mushrooms sprouted from cracks in the stone where water had carved a path generations ago, and their relatively plump helmet-like tops proved more than adequate for eating (with some occasional mild discomfort). Some curious materials were woven in veins along the cavern walls, giving the tribe their first glimpse of Casserite within the Granite. One of the caverns even had a pool of Mourning Dew gathering at it's center.

The tribe, used to the feel of water dripping from the ceiling, were significantly less enthusiastic when they were setting up a camp for resting and felt something significantly harder falling on them from the ceiling.

Poisonous Cave Centipedes as long as a tribesfolk's forearm dropped from above, landing on this perceived threat with aggressive intent. The bites from the animals were painful, and they were never satisfied with just a single assault, often attacking in conjunction with a few other centipedes dropping onto the unfortunate someone or someones passing underneath the centipede clusters. The horrors of these large insects did not end there, as the bites festered and blackened while the venom spread through the victim's body. An incredibly powerful but brief illness struck the victims before they passed away curled in a ball and covered in their own fluids.

While the threat of the centipedes was not constant, it was present enough that the tribe made sure to quickly pass through the region and into 17-N.

This area was full of steep inclines as the passages wove into and through the mountains separating the empty wastes the tribe inhabited from the rest of the world. Fearful of any return through the centipede-infested caverns after having already suffered a noticeable number of losses, the tribe was intent on finding someplace sufficient to stay within this twisting maze. Fortunately, the tribe was able to locate a very large passage that led to the surface. The entirety of the winding passageways within the mountain crossed at a single point with a cave that passed through from one side of the mountain to the other, terminating at each end above the surface. Haircap Moss was abundant in the area, giving the tribe a sufficient and plentiful source of food. Tunnels closer to the surface also cut through significant deposits of Lignite layered above the everpresent Granite. One branch of tunnels beneath the mountain proved most intriguing, as it terminated at a very large squared chamber filled with a dense collection of Mourning Dew that wasn't flowing into the tunnel for some reason or another. Neither did any voices, as our Attuned were keen to point out. Once they entered this chamber, their interactions with the Mourning Dew were as expected (overwhelming numbers of casually mumbling voices).

As the tribe set up near the intersection between the underground and the cave tunnel, a small party went to check out the ends of the cave tunnel. While they did manage to get a good view of their surroundings, less of them returned thanks to a family of Cave Bears that made their home in the tunnel and hunted nearby prey on the surface. Survivors were able to spot a distant tower of smoke, and noted that it likely belonged to one of the tribes that forced yours into hiding.

Neither of these zones are safe, but the Cave Bears are something your people could evade, at least. While they aren't immediately disturbed by or disturbing the tribe, continued habitation of the area without decisively dealing with the bears could result in...animosity.

With the tribe setting up in 17-N, the group working the Hairy Lichen in 16-M could continue their work. All other resources in that region are currently unworked, largely due to the fact that those workers have moved on to harvest the resources in 17-N.


RESOURCES IDENTIFIED
16-N
Glowing Mushroom Clusters (Food+Chemicals)
Granite Caverns (Stone x2)
Casserite Veins (Stone?)
Poisonous Centipede Colonies (??)
Mourning Dew Pool (Mourning Dew x2)


17-N
Haircap Moss Growths (Food x2)
Granite Mountains (Stone x2)
Lignite Beds (Stone? x2)
Cave Bear Family (??)
The Misty Chamber (Mourning Dew x3)



TERRAIN IDENTIFIED
16-N
Interconnected Caverns

16-O
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland

17-N
The Tunnel Pass

17-O
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland
Deciduous Forest
Mountain-Fed Streams


18-M
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland

18-N
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland

18-O
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland
Deciduous Forest
Lake-Fed Streams

UNKNOWN TRIBE


----


It is now the Expansion Phase. Remember that this phase is for expanding in the sense of proposing technology to build up your military, society, industry, or culture in addition to the expected meaning of expansion by declaring an "attack" on a zone within or along your borders if you have an identified threat you wish to eliminate. As a Nomadic tribe you may choose to move or settle during this phase as the phase's Action. The name will also continue to be a point of discussion until the vote is more decisive.

If you use a magnifying glass you might also be able to see the small purple squares in the upper right corner of the areas you have explored on the map.

You can interact with another tribe with any action, provided the proposal includes some flavor involving how it is intended to be used. All actions, even those without flavor, have the potential to cause interaction with other tribes - contact with the outside world is almost inevitable, and you have some power to influence how that comes about.

There is a general feeling among the tribe that there are about to be major changes in the near future. (This is GM-speak letting you know that your Expansion Action, unless it rolls astoundingly average, will be the final deciding factor for how your first Age comes about.)

Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on September 24, 2023, 10:19:56 pm
Offerings for the Dead
Whenever we use our attuned, there is always a chance that the ghost will become or is aggressive. We have discovered a solution to aggressive ghosts. First, we stay a safe distance away from the ghost. Then we make a quick fire and burn some of our food. This way the fumes will provide the spirit with food and it will no longer be aggressive(at least not to us). The science behind this is that the fumes send the food into a form from which the ghost is able to digest.

As much as I like my above proposal, I think it is safer to contact the nearby tribe by giving them one haircap moss and hopefully establishing a friendly relationship.
Quote from: vptebox
1x haircap moss for other tribe(1): Crystalizedmire
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 24, 2023, 10:20:08 pm
I am not committed to a hostile approach or anything. But I thought it would be fun to lay out the option.

Ghastly Domination (Builds on: Attuned and sort of Soul-Scouts)
The whole timbre and attitude among the tribe changed when we realized the outsiders were close. We are not strong, and we still fear, the fear that drove us into the deeps with outsiders baying at our heels in the first place. It is justly said that fear, without recourse, leads to anger, and thence to hate.

But the dead have very little reason to fear.

Having seen what an angry spirit can do to the living, it was not hard to formulate the plan. Having sulked in the darkness for so long, blaming the ones who had driven us away - even if we were growing used to our new home and did not want to return - it was not hard to find volunteers. Our exile had come to offer a unique way for the elderly to serve their people beyond their time, and now that urgent need for that service was felt, there were many who jumped at the chance. Soon enough, several of the Attuned had reached the limits of the mortal coil, and then surpassed them, manifesting in the manner we now knew to expect; whereupon the clouded ranks marched confidently down the mountainside on a misty night, and raised Hell.

The outsiders could not possibly have imagined, much less known, what to expect. Rent by spectral claws, harassed by spectral wails, chilled dead by spectral breath - in no time, their numbers were diminished and their willingness to fight only more so. The plan, however, was not to eliminate them, but to humiliate them as we were once humiliated; so once their resistance was suitably destroyed, the ghosts presented our demands to the survivors: absolute subjugation and tribute.

We will soon make our statement to the rest of the world which had persecuted us.

(It bears saying that I like to write as if the action is successful. Of course it may not actually happen this way, if we are unlucky. But this is the Tale.)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on September 24, 2023, 10:35:59 pm
Just shoving my proposal here
It can be better written but I just not feeling it

Spirit Wardens

Turns out asking those Soul Scouts for directions amongst the tunnels tend to make them a bit miffed about counting rocks
and pebbles for the rest of their unlife. Well, we found a solution to these Soul Scouts that keep murdering our Attuned.

Enter the Spirit Wardens.

These are Attuned that go far beyond what normal people do to become Attuned. These people spend months or even years in
the Mourning Dew, risking insanity or their souls being consumed by the lake in order to obtain something much greater. Turning their
bodies into a part of the Whispering Lake. Since the limited amounts of Attuned appearing, and even less of those willing
to go through with the process, combined with those that do often go insane. This means that usually only 1 Spirit Warden is
created per generation.

What do they do?

Well since now hold a little portion of the Whispering Lake, they now can absorb any souls that are willing and unwilling, perfectly for those
Soul Scouts that keep murdering our guys. The Spirit Warden absorbs these Soul Scouts and forces them into the Whispering Lake held within their bodies.
Often adding a bit of the soul, and memories into their soul but still being the dominant soul within the body.
Due to the absorption of Souls, when Spirit Wardens die, their spirits become much like those Loud Souls we encounter within the Whispering Lake. Allowing the Attuned to hear them
much more easily and allow the Attuned to ask for advice and wisdom from the deceased Spirit Wardens.
This also has the side effect of having more connections to our ancestors, as we can access them via the deceased Spirit Warden's souls.

EDIT: Adding the clarification to this post as well, and editing it to be slightly better written in terms of grammarish
Quote
The Spirit Wardens would be absorbing the soul scouts into the whispering lake
They steal a portion of the soul of the scouts, making them have the memories and experiences of the scouts as well

The whispering lake within the body, and the Warden's soul are two different entities, the lake holds the soul scout souls, which removes the lethal spirits from play. The Spirit warden's soul steals the part of the soul scout's soul, and acts as a tribal "shaman" where we can get wisdom, and information from the scouts, and additional wisdom when they're dead since their souls will be stronger after absorbing other souls.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Quarque on September 24, 2023, 11:27:36 pm
Wow that was exciting. I've barely digested the update yet and will think about proposals/vote later.

Just a quick reminder for those who might have forgotten that cassiterite is the tin ore and lignite is an awesome early find in DF as a fuel. Not as good as bitumous coal, but still a great alternative if you don't have access to massive amounts of wood or eh, magma.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 24, 2023, 11:31:41 pm
lignite is an awesome early find in DF as a fuel.
Yes, this remind me that I would also like to re-table Fireside Community now. If people don't want to define ourselves as scourges upon the earth instead.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 25, 2023, 12:08:14 pm
Offerings for the Dead
This seems too simple a solve. Like, it might placate the murderghosts, but it probably won't pacify them- it'd be a temporary fix that we'd have to continually re-apply (food upkeep, probably), and even then we'd have to be careful around them. I'd rather we either fix the problem at the root- making it so that the ghosts are able to bugger off once they're bored-, or create a way of permanently pacifying them.

Quote
As much as I like my above proposal, I think it is safer to contact the nearby tribe by giving them one haircap moss and hopefully establishing a friendly relationship.
The only thing we know about the other tribe is that they aggressively drove us away, pursuing us until we entered an area that they thought we would never be able to survive in. I don't think approaching them in a submissive stance is likely to work out the way you want. If we want to mend our relationship, we need to come at them from a position of at least equal strength, otherwise they'll probably just endeavour to finish what they started. After all, if they really want the moss, they can just take it once we're dead.

Ghastly Domination
Sending ghosts just to scout areas results in murderghosts that want to kill us. Sending ghosts out with the express purpose of attacking people seems like it would at best result in murderghosts who are as bad as scout-murderghosts, attacking anyone who gets close to them. At medium, they'll attack us if we enter the tile, since their eternal purpose is murder. At worst, they would lump us in with the hostile tribe and attack and 'subjugate' us.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily opposed to siccing murderghosts on our enemies- but I think ensuring they won't murder us is an absolute prerequisite.

Spirit Wardens
This would probably help with the murderghosts. Which I think would be a good direction to go in, since once pacified, we could then use them as Maximum Spin suggests (in the Experimentation phase).

Quote from: vptebox
1x haircap moss for other tribe(1): Crystalizedmire
Spirit Wardens: (1) NUKE9.13
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 25, 2023, 12:23:31 pm
I think we should deal with these cave bears first.  No need to contact other tribes right now...

Shooting Stones (requires access to: Textiles and Stone)

The people of the tribe were deathly afraid of the cave bears.

One day, someone was playing with a length of cord (a small rope) and found that if they wrapped it just right around a stone (and provided the stone wasn't too big or too small), they could swing it around.  They further found that, if they let go of one end of the cord while swinging the stone around and kept hold of the other end, they could cause the stone to shoot forth with deadly speed.  Fast enough (and hard enough) to shatter the skull of a cave bear.  They also found that, with practice, they could control where the stone hit.

No more would the tribe need to cower in the shadow of the cave bears!



Quote from: vptebox
1x haircap moss for other tribe(1): Crystalizedmire
Offerings for the Dead(0):
Ghastly Domination(0):
Spirit Wardens(1): NUKE9.13
Shooting Stones(1): A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on September 25, 2023, 12:26:16 pm
Since now that we actually encountered a potentially hostile tribe
We can just send soul scouts to terrorize them and use the spirit wardens to clean the area once we force them off.

Quote from: votebox
1x haircap moss for other tribe(1): Crystalizedmire
Offerings for the Dead(0):
Ghastly Domination(0):
Spirit Wardens(2): NUKE9.13, TCK
Shooting Stones(1): A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Quarque on September 25, 2023, 01:08:18 pm
I feel Nuke's reasoning is spot on again - a method of pacifying ghosts seems like the best action as it achieves multiple objectives at once.

* no risk of the ghost on the surface potentially coming for us later, triggered by some reason
* able to use the passage on M16 again if we want to
* able to use soul scouts without risk
* able to weaponize soul scouts without it backfiring

Too good to not vote for. Props to Curious_cat for inventing the bola - interestingly, that was one of the early winning proposals in the previous game but you came up with it independently.

TCK, request: before I vote could you please clean up this bit? It's a little unclear to me now.
[snip]The Spirit Warden absorb these Soul Scouts and forces them into the Whispering Lake held within their bodies.
Often adding a bit of the soul, and memories into their soul but still being the domanit soul within the body.[/snip]
Do they force them back into their own bodies, or back into the lake? Does the spirit warden add a bit of his own soul, do they steal a portion of the absorbed soul?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on September 25, 2023, 01:40:30 pm
TCK, request: before I vote could you please clean up this bit? It's a little unclear to me now.
[snip]The Spirit Warden absorb these Soul Scouts and forces them into the Whispering Lake held within their bodies.
Often adding a bit of the soul, and memories into their soul but still being the domanit soul within the body.[/snip]
Do they force them back into their own bodies, or back into the lake? Does the spirit warden add a bit of his own soul, do they steal a portion of the absorbed soul?

Sorry not being clear since writing bad

The Spirit Wardens would be absorbing the soul scouts into the whispering lake
They steal a portion of the soul of the scouts, making them have the memories and experiences of the scouts as well

The whispering lake within the body, and the Warden's soul are two different entities, the lake holds the soul scout souls, which removes the lethal spirits from play. The Spirit warden's soul steals the part of the soul scout's soul, and acts as a tribal "shaman" where we can get wisdom, and information from the scouts, and additional wisdom when they're dead since their souls will be stronger after absorbing other souls.

I will try to clarify as needed when I have additional time.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Quarque on September 25, 2023, 01:48:34 pm
Quote from: votebox
1x haircap moss for other tribe(1): Crystalizedmire
Offerings for the Dead(0):
Ghastly Domination(0):
Spirit Wardens(3): NUKE9.13, TCK, Quarque
Shooting Stones(1): A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2023, 04:23:40 am
The thing for me, here, is that we're told that this action will be the defining turning point of the Age. So I'd really like to do something meaningful from a narrative perspective. Mopping up after our previous mess just isn't the posture I want to take. And consider, anyway, if we make murder-ghosts on purpose and roll well, they'll be murder-ghosts on our side, who can probably murder the other ghost too. Of course if we roll badly things will go badly, but that's how luck works and not really something I see as a compelling argument, especially for cowardice. Who dares wins.

I also consider the potential cultural impact of making ghost-hoover people as our age-defining moment, uh, concerning.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 26, 2023, 05:05:04 am
Of course if we roll badly things will go badly, but that's how luck works and not really something I see as a compelling argument
You're quite right, we shouldn't make that sort of argument. To say we should or shouldn't do something just because we might get a certain roll would be-
Quote
And consider, anyway, if we make murder-ghosts on purpose and roll well, they'll be murder-ghosts on our side
...huh.

But seriously, if your plan to avoid the obvious, glaring issue with your proposal is "we might roll really well and have the GM just remove the existing downside", I'm not compelled. If you want the downside removed, include that in the proposal. Because while I can't speak for MoP, if I give people a bug and they just ignore it with a follow-up action, I wouldn't override their apparent wishes by removing it.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2023, 05:17:29 am
Of course if we roll badly things will go badly, but that's how luck works and not really something I see as a compelling argument
You're quite right, we shouldn't make that sort of argument. To say we should or shouldn't do something just because we might get a certain roll would be-
Quote
And consider, anyway, if we make murder-ghosts on purpose and roll well, they'll be murder-ghosts on our side
...huh.
That's, like, the opposite of what I meant. I'm specifically saying that we should make decisions based on what will happen if we succeed, not what will happen if we fail, because failure is always a presumed possibility for anything (and who dares wins). There's no inconsistency there.

Anyway, I think I see this situation fundamentally differently. The way I see it, the murder-ghosts are a downside of Soul-Scouts due to rolling badly, not a downside of using ghosts generally. Of course I assume something similar or worse would happen if we roll badly on further ghost actions. I assume something similar or worse would happen if we roll badly on Spirit Wardens, like insane shamans full of murder-ghosts. But at the same time, narratively, the murder-ghosts seem to happen because the spirits are going crazy from being denied rest in favor of performing an incredibly menial task without end. I am pretty sure you would probably snap and kill someone if you had to do nothing but count rocks for the foreseeable future, too. So I don't think that we should assume it will just automatically happen if we send ghosts to perform a clearly defined task that is not intrinsically boring and has a definite ending at which point they can go home. It didn't even occur to me to say "these ghosts don't go crazy" because there is zero reason why they would. Again, obviously, if we roll badly, they might go crazy for new reasons, that's always a risk we take, but it seems nuts to just assume that the same problem applies to a completely different scenario, when it only existed in the past scenario because of bad luck anyway.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on September 26, 2023, 06:01:28 am
Anyway, I think I see this situation fundamentally differently. The way I see it, the murder-ghosts are a downside of Soul-Scouts due to rolling badly, not a downside of using ghosts generally.
Right, yes. Under that assumption, what you're saying makes sense. I understand your viewpoint, even if I disagree.
As I read it, something about the way we've created permaghosts compels them to follow their task to the letter. While the problem arose as the result of us rolling poorly, it is (for now) ingrained into our method of ghost-creation. Yes, "subjugate that tribe" isn't as endless or boring a task as "catalogue everything in that area", but if we could just change the wording of our requests to the soon-to-be-ghosts to spare them an eternity of compulsion, then we would only have the first scoutghost to worry about, as all future ones could trivially be given an escape clause. As I said initially, the best case scenario (where we roll a 9 or 10) that I picture still has the ghosts compelled to stick around forever, since that is a fundamental flaw with how we create ghosts.
As support for my viewpoint, I offer the fact that MoP makes it clear at every available opportunity that our actions have lasting consequences. Which seems to me to suggest that a followup action's results will not be based solely on the new dice roll, but also be significantly based on the prior action's results.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on September 26, 2023, 06:07:55 am
if we could just change the wording of our requests to the soon-to-be-ghosts to spare them an eternity of compulsion, then we would only have the first scoutghost to worry about, as all future ones could trivially be given an escape clause.
See, my interpretation is that we could absolutely do that, but we'd need to use a proposal to think of it (which would be a bit of a waste of a proposal to me, since it doesn't accomplish anything NEW). And of course it could end up going even worse.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand II]
Post by: Powder Miner on September 26, 2023, 08:50:18 pm
Quote from: votebox
1x haircap moss for other tribe(1): Crystalizedmire
Offerings for the Dead(0):
Ghastly Domination(0):
Spirit Wardens(4): NUKE9.13, TCK, Quarque, Powder Miner
Shooting Stones(1): A_Curious_Cat
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Man of Paper on October 03, 2023, 11:06:12 pm
Expansion II: The Ties That Bind (Roll: 10) (The Canadian Kitten +1I)
Musical Accompaniment, If You're Into That (https://youtu.be/Dy4HA3vUv2c?si=mCCQiD8UKAiKFdbS)

The Whispering Lake has been a curiosity that has drawn the attention of your tribe for some time now, and even with the "discovery" of the Attuned it largely remained a mysterious point of interest. Without much regular interaction with the Lake, it took the tribe until just now to test the waters in a most literal sense.

A small group of Attuned waded into the lake to fully immerse themselves in the souls of the dead in an attempt to finally reach out and make some sort of real connection. Most were overwhelmed by the sheer volume of voices speaking directly into their minds and either abandoned the lake or fell beneath the surface. Only one Attuned was able to endure the Whispering Lake, staving off madness and enduring the pains of hunger and thirst. After a few days, this Lake-Attuned found themself no longer able to differentiate between the Lake and themselves, filtering through the voices of the dead in order to find and speak to specific spirits passing by. They learned much about the Mourning Dew in their conversations with the dead (although no individual knew much on their own), and discovered that each of these spirits had lived a relatively normal life, doing a little bit to help others here and there, providing for their tribes, and not going out of their way to cause undue harm. As a result of their fairly uneventful lifestyles, they had a slow but steady and reliable path to The Whispering Lake and then the afterlife beyond. The savage spirit scouring the surface was becoming increasingly frustrated due to a degradation of the memory of it's order over time, resulting in an endless loop of task repetition delaying their peaceful path to providence. The Lake-Attuned was able to reach out to this accursed surface spirit from their permanent spot standing at the middle of the lake chest-deep in water and called them back.

The Lake-Attuned found that they could also reach out to their Attuned tribemates, acting as a relay between the living and the dead and passing messages back and forth across long distances. This meant the tribe was able to give clear instructions to the dead that wished to provide aid (and not just recently deceased Attuned) and give them something to do while they waited for their turn to pass on without forcing them to work "overtime". If this link were to ever be broken, any spirits working alongside the tribe would likely lose direction and revert back to a more aggressively agitated state.

As time passed, the Lake-Attuned found themself no longer wanting for food or drink, their bodies seemingly provided for in all manners by their attunement to the Lake, but they still aged. Having already been fairly old at the time of their lake attunement, it was only a few years before an Attuned heard the first "call". Being intimately entwined with death, the Lake-Attuned could feel their own spirit trying to break its mortal bindings and reached out to the Attuned spirit they felt most closely resonated with the spiritual energies of the Whispering Lake - one who had lived a life that would guarantee their passage through The Whispering Lake. As the tribe had begun to see the Lake-Attuned as a sort of spiritual leader (in a few meanings of the title), the Attuned had little hesitation in answering this unique call. The Attuned waded into the middle of the lake unbothered by the spirits congregating in the Mourning Dew, where they met a wrinkled, hunched, withered, but smiling Lake-Attuned. They both held out their hands and grasped one another for a few moments until the Lake-Attuned seeming dissolved into the lake. Their knowledge melded together within the new Lake-Attuned as the old spirit passed all of it's experiences onto the new spirit, leaving the tribe with a seamless transition in the position.


NEW DISCOVERIES
Lake-Attuned: An Attuned who has more specifically attuned to The Whispering Lake. Lake-Attuned allow the tribe to make requests of and utilize the spirits of the dead passing through the Lake without much complication. Only one Lake-Attuned exists at a time, acting as both messenger and spirit guide until they die of old age. Lake-Attuned choose which Attuned will inherit the position based on how closely their lifestyle aligns with The Whispering Lake's denizens - generally the more unremarkable the lifestyle, the better the fit. The tribe sees the Lake-Attuned as a sort of absentee leader who speaks to them through the Attuned. Requires access to The Whispering Lake.

Lake Spirits: Spirits from The Whispering Lake are fairly passive as they likely were in life, and eagerly await their turn to pass into the afterlife (whatever that may be). Lake Spirits are relatively simple, and work best on simple or fairly easy tasks (such as exploration). Their passivity can erode rapidly if overworked, especially without a Lake-Attuned in the tribe. There is no direct cost for Lake Spirits, as any upkeep is reflected in the discoveries that utilize them.

MODIFIED DISCOVERIES
-Soul-Scouts: Spirits from the Whispering Lake who have answered the tribe's call to aid in exploration. They provide very accurate data to the tribe through the Lake-Attuned. Soul-Scouts allow Exploration of a tile neighboring a previously Explored tile independent of any other Exploration action, and have a chance to discover additional resources. While Lake-Attuned is properly funded, Soul-Scouts have no downside. However, if access to The Whispering Lake is lost, Soul-Scouts will provide areas they Explore with the (Lethal Spirits) modifier and hamper any actions in the area unless Lake-Attuned is properly refunded or the spirits are otherwise dealt with. Requires 1 Mourning Dew Upkeep.

TERRITORY MODIFIED
16-M loses (Lethal Spirits [Surface]).
Surface Granite (Stone x2) is no longer blocked.


The Lake-Attuned gave the tribe a sort of leadership figurehead to begin rallying behind, but the day-to-day operations of the tribe was largely beyond their scope. Instead, three families of the tribe were recognized as having a high level of influence on their tribemates. With the tribe clearly heading into a New Age, the strong leadership of these families has seen their opinions and goals weighed much more heavily than the average tribal family.

Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, and Crystalizedmire become Major Families.

There was a little negativity from a family that felt like it was being ignored, but it was unlikely that it would bloom into a larger issue for the tribe. At least for now.


With the advent of the Lake-Attuned, the tribe has grown much more attentive to the Mourning Dew that they once feared out of ignorance moreso than anything else. The Attuned within the tribe have grown more confident in their abilities to push the boundaries and pierce the veil between the worlds of the living and the dead - although your tribe has come to understand that those worlds are one and the same. The tribe has entered The Age of Attunement, the new Major Families receive 1 Prestige and all Influence has been reset.

During The Age of Attunement, any proposals utilizing Mourning Dew are guaranteed to have a larger impact than actions based around the more mundane resources. As a result, any proposals that do not use or interact in some way with Mourning Dew will have results rerolled on a 1, 2, 8, 9, or 10, while proposals that do use Mourning Dew will be rerolled until the result lands on 1, 2, 8, 9, or 10. This is to reflect the weight of the impact Mourning Dew is having and will continue to have on the tribe.


----


It is now the Exploitation Phase. Remember that you can choose a resource to begin exploiting in a neighboring area, or propose a development that would facilitate or build upon your ability to gather, identify, or otherwise interact with the resources of the world around you. Your tribe also remains nameless until there's a clear decision on what to name them! Since it is your first turn in a new zone as nomadic tribals, you do not need to choose a resource to exhaust.

READ THIS
With the ascension of the first Major Families, the way you vote is now changing to reflect the instructions in the original post. Major Families (Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, and Crystalizedmire) will vote in a separate votebox from the rest of the peasantry players, where their vote counts in its entirety. Minor Families (everyone else) vote in their own box, adding a single vote (with tie-breaking power) in the Major Votebox to whichever proposal the majority of the Minor Families vote for. You don't need to account for the Minor Vote in the Major Votebox as I'll obviously be checking both before working on results, but you can if you feel like it. The Tribe Name Vote will still account for everyone equally.

Spoiler: The Age of Attunement (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Powder Miner on October 03, 2023, 11:29:16 pm
I think we need to work towards settling now, as the centrality of the Whispering Lake inherently chains us around one tile. With that said, I feel there is one resource we very much need to exploit whether we continue nomadically or settle, which is stone - if we don't have it, we don't have tools. If we stumble into a tile without stone while nomadic, we may be fucked. If we settle, I think it makes natural sense to settle around the Whispering Lake, and that is a tile without stone.

Quote from: Major Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (1) Powder Miner
Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Quarque on October 03, 2023, 11:57:43 pm
Continued access to mourning dew is likely going to be even more important than continued access to stone in the near future. We're in the age of attunement now, let's make sure we have plenty of dew to work with even if we move.

Quote from: Major Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (1) Powder Miner
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (0)
Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 04, 2023, 03:45:30 am
I firmly agree with the principle of working toward settling, the likelihood that we should settle at 17-M, the fact that we need stone, and that we are probably never going to want to go anywhere without Dew anymore anyway.

The major counterargument for me is that I also think we should move on from using stone tools quickly... but it's hard for me to see what has become a thematically cold, misty, and spiritual people doing much metalworking now. I'm contemplating an alternative in the form of an Experiment proposal, so I guess if people feel like they might be interested in some kind of as-yet-undefined ghost magic alternative to stone tools, we could skip the stone and... oh, hold on, I just figured out what I want to do instead.

I decided not to put the minor vote into the major box yet, since there's only one voter and it seemed like we might as well wait for a clear winner there, but future minor voters should remember you're supposed to do that eventually.
Quote from: Major Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (1) Powder Miner
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) Maximum Spin
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (0)
Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque

You probably see where I'm going with this.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Quarque on October 04, 2023, 10:07:26 am
time to name the tribe

Powder and CK came up with "Children of the Lake" on Discord, I think it has a nice disturbing vibe to it.

Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Powder Miner on October 04, 2023, 10:18:16 am
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (1) Quarque
Wardens of the Whispers: (1) Powder Miner
[/quote]I do prefer "Wardens" because it's a cooler thing to abbreviate to than "Children"
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on October 04, 2023, 02:40:27 pm
I do think that "Wardens of the Whispers" is an objectively cooler name and because of the alliterative appeal
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (1) Quarque
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
As a member of the nobility the major family club, I think that we should exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake because we are in the age of attunement and we will need lots of mourning dew
Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (1) Powder Miner
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) Maximum Spin
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire
Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on October 05, 2023, 12:04:52 am
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (1) Quarque
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) A_Curious_Cat
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (1) Powder Miner
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) Maximum Spin
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (2) Quarque, A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on October 05, 2023, 12:20:38 am

Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (2) Quarque, TCK
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) A_Curious_Cat
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (1) Powder Miner
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) Maximum Spin
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (2) Crystalizedmire, Minor Families

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) TCK
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (2) Quarque, A_Curious_Cat


Me want shiny stuff
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 05, 2023, 10:42:07 am
Guys, we can just... move to 17-M at our earliest convenience. There's no good reason not to if we retain access to stone, and it's the obvious choice to make our home now.
Not only does silver currently count as stone, it's also traditionally associated with spirits and moonlight.

I don't have strong opinions about the name but these all seem a little... unwieldy. How about something with fewer words like, uh... mistwalkers, or something like that?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Quarque on October 05, 2023, 12:42:40 pm
I don't know if 17-M is necessarily the obvious place to settle. We would need a solution to the wasps before that's an option.

If any location is easy and obvious to settle, I think it is 16-M. It is the only location so far without any direct problems, we would be auto-exploiting dew, silver and lots of granite, plus it would give us firm control over an exit.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Powder Miner on October 05, 2023, 02:15:13 pm
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (2) Quarque, TCK
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) A_Curious_Cat
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (2) Crystalizedmire, Minor Families

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) TCK
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (2) Quarque, A_Curious_Cat
Wardens of the Whispers is at least supposed to naturally abbreviate to just Wardens.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on October 06, 2023, 09:06:32 pm
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (2) Quarque, TCK
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) A_Curious_Cat
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (2) Crystalizedmire, Minor Families

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on October 06, 2023, 11:33:22 pm
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (2) Quarque, TCK
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) A_Curious_Cat
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque

Just a quick fix to move the minor families thing
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on October 08, 2023, 12:47:55 pm
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (2) Quarque, TCK
Wardens of the Whispers: (3) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire, NUKE9.13
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) A_Curious_Cat
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on October 08, 2023, 01:19:31 pm
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (3) Quarque, TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Wardens of the Whispers: (3) Powder Miner, Crystalizedmire, NUKE9.13
Ghosts of the Deep: (0)
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque

Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Powder Miner on October 08, 2023, 01:27:20 pm
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (3) Quarque, TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Crystalizedmire, NUKE9.13
Wardens of the Lake: (1) Powder Miner
Ghosts of the Deep: (0)
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on October 08, 2023, 01:34:17 pm
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (2) Quarque, TCK
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Crystalizedmire, NUKE9.13
Wardens of the Lake: (2) Powder Miner, A_Curious_Cat
Ghosts of the Deep: (0)
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque

Yeah, I guess “Wardens of the Lake” is a good compromise.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on October 08, 2023, 01:36:53 pm

Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (1) Quarque,
Wardens of the Whispers: (2) Crystalizedmire, NUKE9.13
Wardens of the Lake: (3) Powder Miner, A_Curious_Cat, TCK
Ghosts of the Deep: (0)
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on October 08, 2023, 01:38:32 pm
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (1) Quarque
Wardens of the Whispers: (1) NUKE9.13
Wardens of the Lake: (3) Powder Miner, A_Curious_Cat, TCK
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) Crystalizedmire
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque
"Ghosts of the Deep" is a subjectively better name
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on October 08, 2023, 01:59:05 pm
Thing is, we aren't ghosts. Which wouldn't necessarily disqualify calling ourselves ghosts, except that we interact with actual ghosts frequently. Wardens is a reasonable title for us to aspire to.
Quote from: naming votebox
Children of the Lake: (1) Quarque
Wardens of the Whispers: ()
Wardens of the Lake: (4) Powder Miner, A_Curious_Cat, TCK, NUKE9.13
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) Crystalizedmire
The Whispers in the Deep: (0)

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Quarque on October 08, 2023, 02:16:45 pm
I'd like to offer an alternative proposal for exploitation.

Quote from: Ghost Farming
"Ghost farming" is not as spooky as it sounds. At its core, it's a rudimentary form of early agriculture, involving the watering of plants. However, instead of simply providing them with plain water they are nurtured with Mourning Dew.

The benefits of this approach are manifold. It serves as a potent stimulant for the growth of hairy lichen and haircap moss, effectively mitigating the risk of overharvesting. In the case of hairy lichen, it imparts an eerie, faint white luminescence to the flora. As for the haircap moss, it takes on a subtle, almost imperceptible turquoise glow. Even after harvesting, the radiance gradually fades, yet these plants offer a considerably longer-lasting source of illumination compared to the conventional practice of drying and burning.

Beyond their luminous qualities, Mourning Dew also imparts a sweet, albeit somewhat cloying, flavor to the lichen. Haircap moss, on the other hand, retains its natural taste. Initially, there may appear to be no immediate discernible effects, but those who regularly consume these ghost-farmed plants tend to exhibit a heightened resistance to diseases and often achieve remarkable longevity.

Notably, ghost-farmed lichen yields a stronger fiber when spun into textiles. A masterfully crafted lichen rope stands as one of our society's most prized commodities. It boasts exceptional flexibility, strength, and an innate ability to be easily discerned in the darkness, making it a cherished resource among our people.

Removing some options without votes from the naming box.
Quote from: naming votebox
Wardens of the Lake: (5) Powder Miner, A_Curious_Cat, TCK, NUKE9.13, Quarque
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (0)
Ghost Farming: (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Quarque on October 09, 2023, 04:03:50 am
ok sorry to spam out 3 proposals in the same phase, but ghost farming is more suitable to experimentation.

If the plan is really to settle down in the lake square of 17-N, we do need a way to deal with wasps.. like fire. I also remember we wanted communal fires. We're already exploiting lignite on a square bordering the lake, why not semi-perm exploit it then? It counts as stone, too.

Quote from: semi-permanently exploit (and learn to burn) lignite
Our community stumbled upon the remarkable qualities of lignite when a curious child inadvertently set a stack of it ablaze. While most parents might have scolded their offspring, our people found themselves in desperate need of a more enduring source of fuel. Thus, we started to harness the potential of lignite, greatly extending the lifespan of our torches.

Given our ongoing utilization of lignite within our current living space of 17-N, we decided that it was worth to keep digging up long term, ie semi-permanently.

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (2) TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Semi-Permanently Exploit (and learn to burn) lignite at 17-N: (1) Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on October 09, 2023, 08:41:09 am
Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (3.1) Maximum Spin, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Semi-permanently exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) TCK
Semi-Permanently Exploit (and learn to burn) lignite at 17-N: (2) Quarque, A_Curious_Cat

Yeah… Quarque’s convinced me this is a good idea.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Powder Miner on October 09, 2023, 08:56:10 am
Quote from: naming votebox
Wardens of the Lake: (5) Powder Miner, A_Curious_Cat, TCK, NUKE9.13, Quarque
Ghosts of the Deep: (1) Crystalizedmire

Quote from: Major Family
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) Maximum Spin
Semi-Permanently Exploit Mourning Dew from the Whispering Lake (17-M): (1) Crystalizedmire
Semi-Permanently Exploit (and learn to burn) lignite at 17-N: (2.1) Powder Miner, Minor Families

Quote from: Minor Box
Semi-Permanently Exploit Granite Stalactites at 16-M: (0)
Semi-Permanently Exploit Native Silver Vein at 16-M: (1) TCK
Semi-Permanently Exploit (and learn to burn) lignite at 17-N: (2) Quarque, A_Curious_Cat
I probably won't want to shift my vote yet again after this, but combine with the fact that the Lignite Beds are a x2 resource and I can't ignore this
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 09, 2023, 11:43:55 am
Well, I don't hate it, but I felt that we were evolving in a cold direction and fire would seem anti-thematic. I was thinking we should use ghost-magic for the things for which the sunlit people use fires.
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: Man of Paper on October 21, 2023, 11:25:57 pm
Exploitation II: Chiaroscuro (Roll: 7)

The tribesfolk, who have begun referring to themselves as "Wardens of the Lake" in order to differentiate themselves from the other tribes on the surface, commonly used a circle of stones to create small barriers for their weak fires. It was through the use of Lignite as these barrier stones and one particularly chilly tribesperson (Quarque +1I) that the properties of lignite were revealed. While laying down to sleep, they opted to use a bit more of their allotment of dried lichen than usual and stoked a fire that nearly blinded anyone who looked at it. They laid some particularly large chunks of lignite into the fire to warm the stones, with the plan to lay on them once the fire died and the stones cooled off enough not to burn skin. The relatively soft, crumbly stones instead began to glow and burn on their own, emitting more light and heat than the tinder the tribe had been scraping by on until this moment. Of course a brighter, warmer fire was embraced by the tribe as rapidly as knowledge spread. This put some strain on the supplies of lignite available for other work, but it was more than worth the comfort. Smoke would build up after a while, but the tribe moved their specific living spaces enough that they never smoked out their homes.

Traveling also benefited very mildly from this discovery, as oft-used paths had fire-bowls carved into wall recesses to house lignite fires while the knowledge of said fires spread like fire. These fires kept the critters of the caves at bay, at least a little bit, whether it was through the light, smoke, or smell. The skill of a starting Stonebreaker was often determined by his Lignite Torchbowl construction, and it wasn't long before all but the most hastily carved paths had their own torchbowls.

Of note, the widespread presence of light has slowed the process of cave adaptation, at least when it comes to vision.

Needless to say, The Wardens of the Lake prioritized the gathering of Lignite in 17-N, making it Semi-Permanently Exploited.

RESOURCE TYPE DISCOVERED:
Fuel: Some materials double as a dedicated source of energy and/or heat with enough output to have practical applications. Fuel is used for upkeep on anything that would require energy to function beyond or incompatible with what the human body could apply.

RESOURCE MODIFIED:
Lignite (Stone+FUEL)


NEW DISCOVERIES
Warm Fires: Fires using a dedicated fuel resource. While it does not necessarily provide any major direct bonuses or maluses, Warm Fires act as a solid foundational development for further advancements. Requires access to a Fuel resource. Replaces Early Firemaking.

Lignite Torchbowls: Bowls carved into walls by Stonebreakers made to house lignite for fires. Provides sufficient light and keeps away cave creatures unaccustomed to the light, smoke, or smell. Underground areas with hostile creatures are less likely to have negative events from human interference. Requires 1 Lignite Resource for Upkeep.


Minor relevant note: The Lignite Upkeep uses the entire resource, meaning both the stone and fuel it provides. If a discovery requires specific materials down the line then remember that they will use all the resources that material provides, but they are likely stronger for it.

----

It is now the Experimentation Phase. Remember unlike the other phases, proposals for new advancements in the Experimentation Phase do not need to be in any way related to an existing technology or piece of knowledge. Also remember that winning proposals have their resulting influence multiplied by 2!

Spoiler: The Age of Attunement (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on October 22, 2023, 02:00:28 am
((Recycling a previous proposal…))



Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics (Builds on: Warm Fires, Requires access to: Clay, Fuel)

After experimenting with the strange soil in 17-M, we have found that we can for it into any shape that we want.  Leaving the items in this form, however, leaves it soft and prone to being dissolved by liquids.  Further experimentation has shown that if we burn the items in a pit along with some lignite, the items become hard and more resistant to liquids (they can still be seriously damage if exposed to liquid long enough and any liquid they contain will eventually leak out very slowly).  We have also found that, if we make and “fire” one of these in the form of a container with an open top and solid sides and a solid floor (which we call a “pot”), that they will retain water long enough for us to boil it (this requires us to separate the pot from the fire using stones so that the flames aren’t directly touching the pot, otherwise the pot will crack from the heat of the flames; also, as mentioned above, the water will eventually leak out if left in the pot long enough).  Finally, we have found that certain things that we previously couldn’t eat become edible when boiled in a pot (we also find that we can (optionally) boil many other food that doesn’t otherwise need to be boiled).
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit II]
Post by: Quarque on October 22, 2023, 07:16:30 am
Curious Cat suggested on Discord that clay + dew has the potential to build golems eventually, which I think would be awesome. Now this is the experimentation phase, so if the clay proposal is modified to become a small step in that direction I'm down. Going from zero to golem would be ridiculous, but maybe a little clay homonculus?

Also reposting ghost farming.

Quote from: Ghost Farming
"Ghost farming" is not as spooky as it sounds. At its core, it's a rudimentary form of early agriculture, involving the watering of plants. However, instead of simply providing them with plain water they are nurtured with Mourning Dew.

The benefits of this approach are manifold. It serves as a potent stimulant for the growth of hairy lichen and haircap moss, effectively mitigating the risk of overharvesting. In the case of hairy lichen, it imparts an eerie, faint white luminescence to the flora. As for the haircap moss, it takes on a subtle, almost imperceptible turquoise glow. Even after harvesting, the radiance gradually fades, yet these plants offer a considerably longer-lasting source of illumination compared to the conventional practice of drying and burning.

Beyond their luminous qualities, Mourning Dew also imparts a sweet, albeit somewhat cloying, flavor to the lichen. Haircap moss, on the other hand, retains its natural taste. Initially, there may appear to be no immediate discernible effects, but those who regularly consume these ghost-farmed plants tend to exhibit a heightened resistance to diseases and often achieve remarkable longevity.

Notably, ghost-farmed lichen yields a stronger fiber when spun into textiles. A masterfully crafted lichen rope stands as one of our society's most prized commodities. It boasts exceptional flexibility, strength, and an innate ability to be easily discerned in the darkness, making it a cherished resource among our people.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on October 22, 2023, 11:22:55 am
Ghost farming sounds like a good idea. After all we only have so many hairy lichen and it couldn't be harmful to due something ghost-mist-related in the age of attunement.
Quote from: Major Family
Ghost Farming(1): Crystalizedmire
Quote from: Minor voting box
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on October 22, 2023, 11:49:35 am
it couldn't be harmful to due something ghost-mist-related in the age of attunement.
I mean, technically, it can only be harmful if we do something dew-related. Non-dew proposals cannot roll a 1 or a 2, so critical failures are only possible if dew is involved.

E: that being said, Ghost Farming does seem like a good proposal. Gonna try to think up something else myself, but I wouldn't object to a step towards agriculture.   
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on November 01, 2023, 12:45:27 am
Quote from: Major Family
Ghost Farming(1): Crystalizedmire
Quote from: Minor voting box
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics(1): A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on November 01, 2023, 12:55:22 am
Whoops, forgot to vote.
Quote from: Major Family
Ghost Farming(1): Crystalizedmire
Quote from: Minor voting box
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics(1): A_Curious_Cat
Ghost Farming: (1) NUKE9.13
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on November 01, 2023, 01:06:02 am
Quote from: Major Family
Ghost Farming(1.1): Crystalizedmire, Minor Families
Quote from: Minor voting box
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics(1): A_Curious_Cat
Ghost Farming: (2) NUKE9.13, TCk

And I realized I didn't vote either
anyways, pottery cringe
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: Quarque on November 01, 2023, 05:54:40 am
Quote from: Major Family
Ghost Farming(2.1): Crystalizedmire, Minor Families
Quote from: Minor voting box
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics(1): A_Curious_Cat
Ghost Farming: (3) NUKE9.13, TCk, Quarque

thanks for bringing this topic back up Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 01, 2023, 12:57:46 pm
Sorry, I've been really distracted. I'd rather have ceramics!
Quote from: Major Family
Ghost Farming(2.1): Crystalizedmire, Minor Families
Pit-fired Terra-Cotta ceramics (1): Maximum Spin
Quote from: Minor voting box
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics(1): A_Curious_Cat
Ghost Farming: (3) NUKE9.13, TCk, Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Experiment II]
Post by: Powder Miner on November 02, 2023, 07:17:14 pm
sadly dont have time to contribute more meaningfully because my thesis work is imploding my entire brain, but I am happy to see agricultural work in preparation for settling
Quote from: Major Family
Ghost Farming(3.1): Crystalizedmire, Powder Miner, Minor Families
Pit-fired Terra-Cotta ceramics (1): Maximum Spin
Quote from: Minor voting box
Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics(1): A_Curious_Cat
Ghost Farming: (3) NUKE9.13, TCk, Quarque
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: Man of Paper on November 05, 2023, 02:31:39 pm
Experimentation Phase II: Separation Anxiety (Roll: 2)

Mourning Dew has always maintained a curious property of never drifting out of some invisible, undetectable barrier surrounding every instance of the misty material. The Wardens of the Lake have long interacted with Mourning Dew at this point, but never before had they tried to remove it from the source.

Stone bowls were carefully carved and smoothed, and used by Attuned to gather Dew drifting at the side of the Misty Chamber. The first Attuned to pull Dew from the Chamber noticed the still silence explode into screams of terror and fear piercing into their minds. The Dew and the spirits of the dead Whatever essences of various spirits they extracted were unwilling or unable (or both) to communicate or cooperate with the Attuned in any way. As a result of the violent assault on the minds of the Attuned gathered, most of the removed Dew was returned to the Chamber which silenced it. One bowl remained within the hands of an Attuned, and they were determined to see their task completed.

With the very limited amount of Mourning Dew available in the single bowl, the Attuned decided to bring the offering to the Hairy Lichen in 16-M. The journey was slow, as the Attuned was careful not to lose any of the precious (psychically screaming) Dew. The trip was excessively easy to navigate, but the temptation to cast the Dew aside and flee the endless sounds of terror proved to be a constant presence. Still, the Attuned made journey and baptized the Hairy Lichen Walls with Mourning Dew.

The Hairy Lichen reacted in a wide variety of ways and not all at once. The screaming from the Dew subsided as it soaked into the lichen as if it understood what the Attuned intended, and soft white glow began to spread throughout the growth. While the screaming wasn't there to batter the minds of Attuned, the Hairy Lichen itself seemed to cause a sense of unease deep within their psyche. As time passed and the Attuned made repeated journeys to feed the lichen, it's standard growth patterns dramatically adjusted. Instead of spreading outward, the lichen had begun to creep in one specific direction - toward 17-N. The Dew feedings continued as the creeping hairs continued to travel and wind through tunnels until after a very, very slow journey the cluster stopped outside of the Misty Chamber. From there it returned to a more normal cycle of growth beyond the fact that it needed no further caring for from the Wardens.

The tribesfolk harvesting and utilizing the lichen noticed some of the changes made to the mossy material as it migrated. The fibrous lichen had become tougher and denser, and not only had the people found themselves less and less "satisfied" when eating the increasingly difficult to chew glowing lichen, but they also noticed a strong increase in fear and anxiety when ingesting it up to, in extreme cases, hallucinations involving violent and graphic death. Needless to say, the tribe stopped using the lichen as a source of food. The lichen continues to be useful for rope-making, and the strength it has gained from the changes it incurred in transit has actually improved the quality of the ropes available. The Strong Glowrope produced from Glowing White Lichen provides a source of illumination in the underground requiring much less maintenance (and producing much less smoke) than the admittedly more effective Torchbowls, better identifying routes that rope have been used to cut off, or lighting up pitfalls to see to the bottom, among other uses. Some members of the tribe take to hanging them from lower ceilings to light their homes.

The tribe was predictably angered at the loss of a food source, and what the Wardens had learned of the spirits residing beneath them filled everyone with unease (Quarque -2I). The experiment would not be repeated again until the tribe had considered what they'd learned of the Dew.


As if life hadn't been interesting enough, the bears living at the entrance of the cave got extremely rowdy one day as a small gang from another tribe came into the cave with long pointed sticks while attempting to grab the cubs. This did not go well for them, as a bear had been outside the cave foraging and trapped the other tribals between two walls of angry claws, teeth, and fur. The bears have won the day, but this negative interaction with humans has agitated them. There are increasing concerns that the bears may finally decide to turn inward and check out all the noise and smells the Wardens are producing.


NEW DISCOVERIES
Terrorforming: A very early attempt at agricultural advancement using Mourning Dew sourced from The Misty Chamber. Terrorformed plants will "flee" toward the Misty Chamber with each rapidly breeding generation until they arrive at the Chamber. Rapid breeding results in unstable mutations, with greater distances covered resulting in drastically dramatic and usually outright worse alterations. Terrorformed plants will emit a glow and pass on the strong fear and memories of death held within the Dew (usually when ingested, although other means of transference are possible). The Misty Chamber seems to provide sustenance for Terrorformed plants upon arrival. Requires access to The Misty Chamber, and 1 Mourning Dew for upkeep.

Strong Glowropemaking: A strong, faintly glowing rope made from Glowing White Lichen. Provides low light with low maintenance in addition to the standard uses of a sturdy rope. Requires access to Glowing White Lichen, and 1 Textile for upkeep. Replaces Primitive Ropemaking.


RESOURCES MODIFIED
Cave Bear Family (??) [17-N] -> Agitated Cave Bears (?!) [17-N]
Hairy Lichen Walls (Food+Textile) [16-M] -> Glowing White Lichen (Textile x2) [17-N]

----

It is now the Exploration Phase. You may choose to make a proposal to develop for your people that could aid them in exploration in some way, or you can propose a route to explore. Thanks to Stonebreakers, you may choose to explore up to two tiles. These tiles must neighbor an already explored tile, and must connect to one another as well. Due to Soul-Scouts you may also choose to scout another tile neighboring a previously explored tile independent of any other action you take during the phase. When proposing exploration plans, be sure to include whether or not you will be deploying Soul-Scouts. Remember that diagonal zones are considered neighboring.

Spoiler: The Age of Attunement (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on November 05, 2023, 04:35:37 pm
We should probably explore 18L, 17L, and ghostsplore 16L then settle at 18L dew to needing to maintain access to the lake.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: Quarque on November 05, 2023, 11:34:04 pm
There is something drawn on the map that looks like a grey wall around the 3x3 underground square. I'm not certain if there are underground caves to explore outside of this region. 18-L is outside of it. Trying to settle there below ground might not be possible.

Second point, if we relocate more than 1 square away from our current position we're losing the lignite. The idea behind lignite is that it will still be available once we've settled on the lake.

So what I would suggest is to explore 16-L and 17-L now and ghostsplore 18-L, without relocating. In the next phase (expansion) we can then settle in 17-M.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: m1895 on November 09, 2023, 08:43:42 pm
I wish to explore 15-L, 15-M, and ghostplore 15-N because the pathway looks nicer, I trust the tetrisman to back me up on this.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: Powder Miner on November 09, 2023, 08:51:05 pm
I DO like the idea of learning more about our inner ring, although that combo of spaces would require us to head back to the Tribal Cavern.

That might be one of the best places for us to settle, though.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: Quarque on November 10, 2023, 12:19:03 am
hey look who's back

Quote from: votebox
tetrisman: explore 15-L, 15-M, and ghostplore 15-N (1): Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on November 10, 2023, 03:30:17 am
Quote from: votebox
tetrisman: explore 15-L, 15-M, and ghostplore 15-N (2): Quarque, TCk
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on November 10, 2023, 04:21:33 pm
Quote from: C Major Family
explore 18L, 17L, and ghostsplore 16L then settle at 18L(1): Crystalizedmire\
tetrisman: explore 15-L, 15-M, and ghostplore 15-N (1): minor families
Quote from: a minor family
tetrisman: explore 15-L, 15-M, and ghostplore 15-N (2): Quarque, TCk
[/quote]
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 10, 2023, 05:27:44 pm
Quote from: C Major Family
explore 18L, 17L, and ghostsplore 16L then settle at 18L(1): Crystalizedmire
tetrisman: explore 15-L, 15-M, and ghostplore 15-N (2.1): minor families, Maximum Spin
Quote from: a minor family
tetrisman: explore 15-L, 15-M, and ghostplore 15-N (2): Quarque, TCk
Sure, let's do...
who's the tetrisman anyway?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: Quarque on November 10, 2023, 10:33:50 pm
it's M

I trust the tetrisman to back me up on this.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Explore III]
Post by: m1895 on November 11, 2023, 04:42:39 am
it's M

I trust the tetrisman to back me up on this.
No I was referencing a past event with pm with a jocular title, hence why he commented first on it.
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: Man of Paper on November 24, 2023, 12:39:24 am
Exploration Phase III: Discoveries In The Deep

With the desire to travel once more causing an itch within the tribe, the Wardens of the Lake saw a long-forgotten family once more step forward to lay out the plans for an expedition (m1895 +1I). The goal was to explore the western territories within the mountain ring and observe the land immediately beyond it.


A large group set out following a series of torchbowls and glowropes through their previous home and continued northwest into 15-L. Once more it was Stonebreakers who led the way, increasing accessibility for the rest of the expedition while lighting the way with additional torchbowls and a few handy lignite runners. A network of caverns continued to wind through the region with very little that stood out to the wandering Wardens, at least initially. The same granite lined the walls that the tribe had seen everywhere else, and it was only through dumb luck that one of the Stonebreakers set up a lignite torchbowl near a new thing - a yellow stone clumped up within the granite that glimmered and sparkled under the torchbowl's light. This gold stone was certainly a curiosity for the tribe, but they were even more curious about a tunnel that terminated in a sudden straight drop. This pit, which could comfortably fit a dozen people standing shoulder-to-shoulder, also cut upwards to reveal the sky. Turbulent air kicked up in the tunnels branching off the tube at various points, which either fed or was fed by the twisting movement of the Mourning Dew dancing up and down the tunnel simultaneously. Stonebreakers set about cutting a path winding to the surface while Attuned readied themselves to explore deeper with the aid of glowropes. The brief trip to the surface proved to be worth the immense effort, as for some incredible reason the air coming through the tunnel carried the outside world with it. Grasses and hardy flowers had gained a foothold in the rocky wasteland, with a wildflower called stinkweed proving to be the dominant invader. As above, so below, as the Attuned also made quite a discovery in the depths.

They weren't actually that deep, and the larger tunnel narrowed at the bottom where it curved horizontally. At this point the path is narrow enough that the Mourning Dew fills it in it's entirety, and this initially gave pause to the Attuned meant to travel onward, as the entire time they'd been hearing laughter of all types - though all equally unsettling - coming from the Dew. Or was it crying? Either way, they opted to have a group of normal tribesfolk crawl through in their stead. When they finally emerged after an incredibly painful journey the tribesfolk couldn't be blamed for believing they had gotten turned around: the immediate surface was nothing but rock and stone. As they had emerged at night, it took a little bit of exploration to find the first greenery beneath their feet and realize that they had indeed left the cover of the mountains. While out there in the dark they also spotted something ominous: the light of great fires in the distance.

Only a handful of the tunnel crawlers managed to make the trip back, as one of them wound up succumbing to the laughter/crying and went mad. The madman was put down after turning on his fellow Wardens, scratching, punching, and biting however he could within the cramped fog-blinding corridor. The swirl in the fog seemed to intensify almost immediately upon the attacker's death, and the survivors wanted nothing more than to get out of there as quickly as they possibly could, emerging among the rest of the expedition covered in all sorts of bodily excretions.


Little else of note was uncovered by the explorers, so they continued along their planned route south into 15-M. The route the Stonebreakers carved was winding out of necessity, although they also accidentally managed to cross over their own paths and retread ground a few times too. Travel through the tunnels was fairly difficult, especially as they turned from the hard, dull stone the tribe is used to into a blackish glassy stone with excruciatingly sharp edges. The explorers managed to traverse the obsidian and over the course of their survey of the area had found a large chamber of magma. Within the middle of this lake of fire was an island that even from the opposite shores the Wardens could tell held Mourning Dew. Once again some members of the tribe began to work on ways to maneuver themselves and cross the molten stone (only one person had to get close enough to combust to learn that lesson). While a number of ideas were floated, the tribe figured they'd cut steps into the obsidian and hang ropes from the glimmering ceiling to traverse over the magma and drop onto the island. There was still some rope and fiber available to make more, but some of the expedition had found a large collection of very strong hair-like fibers coating some nearby tunnels and harvested it for additional materials.

The braiding of this new fibrous material was coming along very well and the first footholds smoothed out when one of the tribesfolk felt something travel up their leg. They slapped it on reflex and raised their palm to the light, illuminating a pea-sized corpse with eight twitching legs. Then they felt another. And another. Before the tribesman could kill those he felt a sudden hot, painful piercing sensation on his right thigh. More of the tribesfolk had begun to swat off their own octopodal offenders, with some of these aggressive arachnids being as large as a thumb. Then a fist. Then a head. Repulsive eyeless beasts with oversized fangs and a sickly off-white chitin fell upon the explorers in an excessively rapid and toxic manner, with very few of the exploring group managing to get away. Those unfortunate enough to be bitten quickly fell to vomiting and paralysis, although what happened to them afterward is anyone's guess.

But wait, there's more!

Those few that escaped were still a greater number than finally managed to return. The spider swarm was not seemingly content with just the meat they had gathered by the magma pool, and had decided to follow. With no eyes or noses to be disturbed by the torchbowls, the fleeing tribals found themselves beset upon repeatedly by spiders who continued to track down this suddenly available and abundant food source. The spiders didn't follow the tribe all the way home, but they are on the move, and the expectation is that they will eventually make the trip.


Meanwhile, the Lake-Attuned took the opportunity to send forth a small troupe of Soul-Scouts to examine 15-N. This was an easy enough task to accomplish, especially as the spirits, once freed from the lake, were drawn to the area. Many curiously straight tunnels (not that the spirits needed to follow them) followed a gradual decline that opened up into an absolutely enormous cavern, and were unremarkable other than the Inky Mushrooms growing from the occasional damp crack. The chamber itself was lit from the center with the faintest (for surface eyes anyway) white-blue glow, where a large circular portion of the room stood separate from the chamber thanks to some trench. Upon further inspection, which the spirits were very keen on doing, they realized this trench was filled with a constantly bubbling and churning mass of Mourning Dew. Something gave the scouts a sense of unease, which isn't the easiest task with the undead, and so they opted not to investigate into the Dew here any further. (GM NOTE: This is just an excuse to let you actually define what's going on here with a later action)

The platform at the center of the room was easily reached thanks to the nature of locomotion in the afterlife, but held nothing of note. The spirits then made their way upwards and checked out their surroundings on the surface. They found nothing of use to the tribe here, too. What they did see as they crested the top of the mountain ring and looked out with their ghastly senses was a collection of small homes (and not tents!) further beyond the West Wall. With the region sufficiently checked out, the information pipeline from the spirits to the Lake-Attuned and finally to the Attuned and tribe at large did it's work and spread the news.


RESOURCES IDENTIFIED
15-L
Granite Cavities (Stone x2)
Glimmering Gold Vein (Stone? x2)
Surface Stinkweed Patch (Food x2+Chemical)
Sanguine Tunnel (Mourning Dew x3)


15-M
Obsidian Layer (Stone x3)
Ceiling Diamond Clusters (Stone? x1)
Magma Mourning Dew (Mourning Dew x2)
Troglodytic Spider Horde (!!)


15-N
Granite Tubes (Stone x2)
Inky Mushroom Growths (Food+Chemical)
The Churn (Mourning Dew x6)



TERRAIN IDENTIFIED
14-K
Hilly Grassland
Pando Forest
Grassland


14-L
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland
Pando Forest


14-M
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland
Pando Forest


14-N
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland

UNKNOWN TRIBE

14-O
Peat Bog

15-K
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland
Pando Forest

UNKNOWN TRIBE

15-O
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland


16-K
Mountain Range
Hilly Grassland



----


It is now the Expansion Phase! This phase is for expanding in the sense of proposing technology to build up your military, society, industry, or culture in addition to the expected meaning of expansion by declaring an "attack" on a zone within or along your borders if you have an identified threat you wish to eliminate. As a Nomadic tribe you may choose to move or settle during this phase as the phase's Action.

Thanks to some of the tribe's luck being less good than others, an imminent dangerous threat of spiders is on your doorstep! They will work as follows:

The Spiders will migrate at the start of every turn, moving one zone closer to wherever the tribe may be located. Various actions can slow or stop this approach, temporarily or on a more permanent basis.
The Spiders reaching the tribe will not be a game over, but it will make life really fucking suck for the tribe.
Life will also really fucking suck for anyone working tiles outside of the tribe center itself if they happen to cross the spiders.


Spoiler: The Age of Attunement (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on November 24, 2023, 02:31:10 am
What type of “Stinkweed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinkweed)” are you referring to?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on November 24, 2023, 02:51:40 am
Here’s my initial suggestion concerning the spiders:

Soul Sentries (builds on: Soul Scouts, Requires access to: Mourning Dew)

After our run-in with the spiders, we quickly came to the conclusion that we needed some way of providing us with early warning of their approach.  At first we considered tasking some of the living with keeping tabs on the foul arachnids, but there were few (if any) who would volunteer for such a task.  We soon came to the conclusion that the dead were the best for the task.  The dead have nothing to fear from the fangs of the spiders, after all.  This works similar to scouting an area with Soul Scouts, except that the Soul Sentries patrol an area and report on any movements of creatures in to, out of, through, or within that area.  As this is more long-term than the Soul Scouts, it is also necessary to periodically pass the task of patrolling an area on to a new (set of) Soul Sentr(y/ies) while allowing the old one(s) to pass on to the Whispering Lake.


Might as well include this proposal as well…

Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics (Builds on: Warm Fires, Requires access to: Clay, Fuel)

After experimenting with the strange soil in 17-M, we have found that we can for it into any shape that we want.  Leaving the items in this form, however, leaves it soft and prone to being dissolved by liquids.  Further experimentation has shown that if we burn the items in a pit along with some lignite, the items become hard and more resistant to liquids (they can still be seriously damage if exposed to liquid long enough and any liquid they contain will eventually leak out very slowly).  We have also found that, if we make and “fire” one of these in the form of a container with an open top and solid sides and a solid floor (which we call a “pot”), that they will retain water long enough for us to boil it (this requires us to separate the pot from the fire using stones so that the flames aren’t directly touching the pot, otherwise the pot will crack from the heat of the flames; also, as mentioned above, the water will eventually leak out if left in the pot long enough).  Finally, we have found that certain things that we previously couldn’t eat become edible when boiled in a pot (we also find that we can (optionally) boil many other food that doesn’t otherwise need to be boiled).



Here’s another suggestion concerning the spiders:

Soul Drivers (Builds on: Soul Scouts, Requires access to: Mourning Dew)

The spiders are a serious threat.  One that requires action.  To this end we have enlisted the aid of the dead to drive them into the magma in the pit from whence they came.

Soul Drivers are similar to Soul Scouts, except that they create a sense of fear and/or uneasiness that repels targeted creatures.  By carefully coordinating their movements, the Soul Drivers can herd creatures from one area to another.  This can have multiple uses.  It can be used to dispose of pests by driving them towards something that is sure to kill them… or it can be used to “weaponize” such pests by driving them towards our enemies.

Edit:  added Soul Drivers.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: Man of Paper on November 24, 2023, 02:54:17 am
None of the ones on that list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleome_gynandra)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on November 24, 2023, 03:06:54 am
None of the ones on that list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleome_gynandra)

Oh.  I was hoping for Cannabis Indica.  :P

(Also, the one you linked to would’ve been found in the list under “Cleomella”.)
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on November 24, 2023, 04:27:41 am
Added Soul Drivers to my list of suggestions.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: Quarque on November 24, 2023, 02:10:28 pm
Going to recycle a proposal from earlier as well.

Man of Paper confirmed that the horrible demonspiders only move 1 square each full turn cycle. That means we have the experiment phase to do something about them (and the bears) before they take their first step. In the meantime, I think this would be a great moment to settle down and stop the resource complications from being nomads.

Quote from: settle down
As our tribe gradually get accustomed to their subterranean environment, they transform it into their permanent dwelling. The lake draws them near. They build homes to close it and light a perpetually burning Warm Fire in front of it on 17-M. This transition marks a departure from their nomadic existence.
In order to improve the safety of our Cave Homes, our people embark on the endeavor of crafting stone walls from interlocking boulders, a novel technique still in its early stages but brimming with potential.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: Powder Miner on November 24, 2023, 02:21:29 pm
I'm actually down for this, it HAS been hard to find space for settling down but it does also feel fairly critical in this environment.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 24, 2023, 02:42:31 pm
Yeah, I'm up for that. Or down for it. Both ways, really.

Sorry for being so inattentive to this, by the way. I've been having loooots of problems lately and don't want to be foruming much. I think I will resign myself to being a minor family from now on unless I come up with something really good out of nowhere.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: Powder Miner on November 28, 2023, 10:51:36 am
Quote from: Major Families
Settle Down (1): Powder Miner
Quote from: Minor Families
Settle Down (0):
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: Quarque on November 28, 2023, 10:58:32 am
Sorry for being so inattentive to this, by the way. I've been having loooots of problems lately and don't want to be foruming much. I think I will resign myself to being a minor family from now on unless I come up with something really good out of nowhere.
Sorry to hear about your struggles, take care.

Quote from: Major Families
Settle Down (1): Powder Miner
Quote from: Minor Families
Settle Down (1): Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: m1895 on November 29, 2023, 02:08:29 am
Walls of Ghastly Aversion
With the risk of bears snooping around and the guaranteed trouble the spiders pose, some method of safeguarding our tunnels was deemed necessary.
A circle of glowrope is sized to a tunnel, two more lengths of rope are used to create a "doorway" at the center of the circle, and then the central ropes are vertically scoured along the sides. After that the whole thing is bundled together and plopped in mourning dew, an attuned is kept on hand to focus on the bundle as it marinates for the next couple hours. The bundle is then removed from the dew and secured in its tunnel as a fully finished wall of ghastly aversion, though physically unchanged any (un)living being can sense raw aura of death emanating from it.
Death by crushing force. Death by gnashing teeth. Death in all its forms understandable by all creatures. Of course if one passes through the wall they will come out the other side unharmed, for the wall is not made of death, but the fear of death. Humans are uniquely able to rationalize this fear, and our people's experience with mourning dew in general and Walls of Ghastly Aversion in specific means we are uniquely able to rationalize this fear among humans, so we can travel through about a half dozen walls in short order before being physically and emotionally exhausted. Now you may expect the Attuned to be hit harder by the death wall, and while that is true, they sense the one all-consuming fear as several smaller distinct "blocs" of fear that can be rationalized away individually, so on average they can make it through a few more before being exhausted.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on December 01, 2023, 02:20:37 am
Quote from: Major Families
Settle Down (2.1): Powder Miner, Minor Families
Quote from: Minor Families
Settle Down (2): Quarque, TCK
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: m1895 on December 01, 2023, 01:37:46 pm

Quote from: Major Families
Settle Down (2.1): Powder Miner, Minor Families
Walls of Ghastly Aversion ():
Quote from: Minor Families
Settle Down (2): Quarque, TCK
Walls of Ghastly Aversion (1): m1895
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on December 01, 2023, 05:12:05 pm


Quote from: Major Families
Settle Down (2.1): Powder Miner, Minor Families
Walls of Ghastly Aversion ():
Soul Drivers (1): Crystalizedmire
Quote from: Minor Families
Settle Down (2): Quarque, TCK
Walls of Ghastly Aversion (1): m1895
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on December 02, 2023, 01:38:13 am
Quote from: Major Families
Settle Down (2.1): Powder Miner, Minor Families
Walls of Ghastly Aversion ():
Soul Drivers (1): Crystalizedmire
Quote from: Minor Families
Settle Down (2): Quarque, TCK
Walls of Ghastly Aversion (1): m1895
Soul Drivers (1): A_Curious_Cat
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: Man of Paper on December 14, 2023, 12:18:16 am
Expansion Phase III: A Change Of Pace (Roll: 7)

As the Wardens familiarized themselves with their surroundings, it became increasingly obvious that they would need to prepare themselves to centralize the tribe and develop a more permanent settlement. Under the guidance of a Minor Family (Quarque +1I), the tribe gathered themselves up once more and made the trek toward their new home - 17-M. The trip was relatively easy, and the tribe was anticipating life somewhere under open sky (an admittedly unsettling prospect) near running water. Being closer to the spiritual center that gave the tribe their self-imposed identity was very exciting as well. Folk excitedly moved throughout the area, and using lines of stones they were able to isolate portions of the area to give to each family in the tribe. While any old loose stone was used to mark property lines at first, the skilled stoneworking hands of the Wardens eventually made themselves clear and present.

Where Stonebreakers carved through the earth to reach an end goal, for Stonecarvers the end goal is the cutting of stone. Stonecarvers came about as a niche job meant to occupy the youth not quite suited to work in the caverns yet, but was quickly adopted by adults as they began to understand the potential utility of shaping stones for more purposes than just tools. Rough stones were replaced by smoother stone blocks that could be placed tighter together with fewer gaps, and soon the size and quality of a family's border blocks became something of a status symbol, with the better connected or "wealthier" (in the context of barely civilized cave people who just realized property is a concept) families even stacking their blocks vertically so as to let their property be identified clearer and from further away. The lakeside settlement quickly became a labyrinth in itself as stone walls formed corridors and unintentionally walled communal areas, rapidly coming to resemble the caverns that the Wardens had been familiar with for so long already. With supplies still coming from workers in 17-N, the tribe could take slightly more time getting settled in, and do so in a way that minimized their interaction with the mud wasps.

You tribe has coexisted in the same region as hostile creatures before, but the bears were few in number, kept largely to themselves, and were fairly non-aggressive. This is exactly the opposite of the wasps, and even with some careful planning, the sudden appearance of an entire tribe encroaching on the wasp's territory has rustled some chitin. Their aggression has only been stymied thanks to the use of lignite torchbowls, creating a sort of equilibrium that will need to be addressed should the local resources be developed upon any further - or the tribe grow much larger. There is one more cruel twist, as a shortage of stone thanks to the walls has resulted in an inability to fully provide for the Lignite Torchbowls. This lack of funding will see the efficacy of the torchbowls drop as time goes by, which will likely lead to more confrontations with the wasps.

[GM Note: Degradation will not slow since, although there is still Fuel available in the stockpiles, the Torchbowls require a full Lignite resource. This should provide a baseline to keep things simple as considerations become more complex, at least regarding multi-resource shenanigans.]


SETTLEMENT FOUNDED
Tribal Complex (17-M)


Spoiler: Settled Rules (click to show/hide)

Settling has an immediate effect of requiring 1 Food for upkeep per settlement

NEW DISCOVERIES:
Stone Blocks: Pieces of stone cut from the earth and shaped for easier stacking. Being used in a proposal will add/increase stone upkeep but it will benefit from slightly higher quality construction in addition to the effects (for good or ill) resulting from using carved stone vs. another material. Requires access to Stone.

Complex Walls: Complex walls are crafted from Stone Blocks to outline property and interlock with other walls to create a large singular complex. Instead of encircling a settlement, complex walls define the entire thing, with a wide variety of heights, stone sizes, and overall quality throughout. Doubles as housing. Requires 2 Stone for base upkeep, with costs increasing as the tribe and it's settlements grow larger.

-Stonecarvers: Tribesfolk with a desire to shape stone instead of carve through it. They are responsible for the tribe's stonecrafts and will generally improve the overall quality of the tribe's stonework. Requires access to Stone.


MODIFIED DISCOVERY:
Stonebreakers: Your tribe is intimately familiar with various properties of stone, and have a chance to identify an additional stone (or "stone") based resource when exploring or settling a new area. The digging out, smoothing, and marking of tunnels for regular usage also makes all forms of travel easier. Scouts also benefit from the ability to dig around/through obstacles. Exploration Range +1. Exploitation ->and Settlement Range<- extends +1 beyond borders. Only applicable to underground actions.



It is now the Exploitation Phase. Remember that you can choose a resource to begin exploiting in a neighboring area, or propose a development that would facilitate or build upon your ability to gather, identify, or otherwise interact with the resources of the world around you.

With the change in the tribe's lifestyle it became increasingly apparent that one family was somewhat absent from the decision-making process, and as a result was replaced by a former Minor Family. [In-game reasoning for swapping out Max Spin - due to a tie in influence a coin flip has determined that m1895 ascends to the position. I'm ignoring any ill effects from influence ties and the like since this was a request and not me trying to beat you nerds.]

EDITED TO ADD: With your first settlement in place, your people might eventually desire to come up with a name to collectively refer to their home as. As with the name of the tribe, naming settlements has no deadline and considers all voters equally regardless of family status.

Spoiler: The Age of Attunement (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: m1895 on December 14, 2023, 12:25:17 am
Exploiting the granite mountains seems like the safest way to fix our stone issue
To wit, most other options either have their own fucked up gribbly to deal with, or can intersect with the spider path, the mountains only have the cave bears, explicitly easier to deal with, and they probably won't care what happens outside the caves.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on December 14, 2023, 01:17:46 am
Decided I might as well try this suggestion again.  It should help increase our access to food resources.
(Also, fixed a typo…)

Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics (Builds on: Warm Fires, Requires access to: Clay, Fuel)

After experimenting with the strange soil in 17-M, we have found that we can form it into any shape that we want.  Leaving the items in this form, however, leaves it soft and prone to being dissolved by liquids.  Further experimentation has shown that if we burn the items in a pit along with some lignite, the items become hard and more resistant to liquids (they can still be seriously damage if exposed to liquid long enough and any liquid they contain will eventually leak out very slowly).  We have also found that, if we make and “fire” one of these in the form of a container with an open top and solid sides and a solid floor (which we call a “pot”), that they will retain water long enough for us to boil it (this requires us to separate the pot from the fire using stones so that the flames aren’t directly touching the pot, otherwise the pot will crack from the heat of the flames; also, as mentioned above, the water will eventually leak out if left in the pot long enough).  Finally, we have found that certain things that we previously couldn’t eat become edible when boiled in a pot (we also find that we can (optionally) boil many other food that doesn’t otherwise need to be boiled, making them more palatable).


Ceramics, I tell you!  Ceramics!…



Edit:



Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (requires access to: Textiles and Stone)

We need stone and we need it now!  There’s plentiful stone at 17-N, but there’s a problem.  17-N is inhabited by cave bears.  And we are deathly afraid of the cave bears.

One day, someone was playing with a length of cord (a small rope) and found that if they wrapped it just right around a stone (and provided the stone wasn't too big or too small), they could swing it around.  They further found that, if they let go of one end of the cord while swinging the stone around and kept hold of the other end, they could cause the stone to shoot forth with deadly speed.  Fast enough (and hard enough) to shatter the skull of a cave bear.  They also found that, with practice, they could control where the stone hit.

With this new weapon, we can now protect ourselves from the cave bears and exploit the resources that they once prevented us from accessing.



Quote from: votebox
Major Families:

Minor Families:
Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (1): A_Curious_Cat

Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: Quarque on December 15, 2023, 01:05:11 am
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:

Minor Families:
Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (1): A_Curious_Cat
Exploit granite from 17N (1): Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: m1895 on December 15, 2023, 03:08:48 am
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Exploit granite from 17-N (1): m1895
Minor Families:
Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (1): A_Curious_Cat
Exploit granite from 17-N (1): Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on December 15, 2023, 04:53:12 am

Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Exploit granite from 17-N (2.1): m1895, Minor families
Minor Families:
Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (1): A_Curious_Cat
Exploit granite from 17-N (2): Quarque, TCk
While slings will be useful as a weapon, I think ensuring having enough stone is a good idea first
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: Powder Miner on December 15, 2023, 06:35:51 am
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Exploit granite from 17-N (3.1): m1895, Powder Miner, Minor families
Minor Families:
Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (1): A_Curious_Cat
Exploit granite from 17-N (2): Quarque, TCk
Gotta have a horse to even put in front of our cart

Namewise I like the idea of something emphasizing the idea that we have enemies on all sides right now but damned if I’m coming up with that something on a plane
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: Quarque on December 15, 2023, 06:59:09 am
Starting the naming votebox, this is the best idea I heard so far but open to other suggestions.

Quote from: Naming vote
Spirithaven (1): Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 15, 2023, 10:47:18 am
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Exploit granite from 17-N (3.1): m1895, Powder Miner, Minor families
Minor Families:
Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (1): A_Curious_Cat
Exploit granite from 17-N (3): Quarque, TCk, NUKE9.13
We need stone, and of the options available to us, I agree that the bears are, somehow, the least threatening.

Quote from: Naming vote
Spirithaven (1): Quarque
Skarybae (1): NUKE9.13
Skara Brae (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skara_Brae) is the oldest preserved neolithic village in Europe, by some accounts. Like our settlement, it consists of drystone walls forming twisting clusters.
Also, our settlement is built next to a spooky body of water, or a 'scary bay', loosely.
Thus, Skarybae.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: Quarque on December 15, 2023, 11:17:47 am
Quote from: Naming vote
Spirithaven (0):
Skarybae (2): NUKE9.13, Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 15, 2023, 01:11:27 pm
Quote from: Naming vote
Spirithaven (0):
Skarybae (3): NUKE9.13, Quarque, Maximum Spin
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Exploit III]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on December 15, 2023, 04:05:07 pm
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Exploit granite from 17-N (4.1): m1895, Powder Miner, Minor families, Crystalizedmire
Minor Families:
Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (1): A_Curious_Cat
Exploit granite from 17-N (3): Quarque, TCk, NUKE9.13
Exploiting granite seems to be the best option we have
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: Man of Paper on December 16, 2023, 01:01:33 am
Exploitation III: Rock And Stone Again

Pushing themselves front and center, one family within the tribe has risen to prominence through strong command of their people. In this case, the family has directed the tribe toward the wealth of granite within 17-N. Stonebreakers and stonecarvers who worked on-site began making their regular treks between the tribal complex and their workstation in order to provide the tribe with the stone necessary to offset the shortages that led to a reduction in the number of active Lignite Torchbowls. While the re-increase in activity in the area certainly didn't go unnoticed by the Cave Bears, the Lignite Torchbowls being relit more than offset any agitation the tribe would have caused the bears.

As with the bears, the wasps within 17-M find themselves repelled once more by the redoubled efforts to provide the proper materials for the tribe's growing needs. While there's always going to be the occasional sting or bite, mass swarmings and deaths are rare if not completely absent for the time being.


It is now the Experimentation Phase. Remember unlike the other phases, proposals for new advancements in the Experimentation Phase do not need to be in any way related to an existing technology or piece of knowledge. Also remember that winning proposals have their resulting influence multiplied by 2!

Spoiler: The Age of Attunement (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on December 16, 2023, 01:44:25 am
Ok.  Heres Five (5) suggestions:

Pit-fired terra-cotta ceramics (Builds on: Warm Fires, Requires access to: Clay, Fuel)

After experimenting with the strange soil in 17-M, we have found that we can form it into any shape that we want.  Leaving the items in this form, however, leaves it soft and prone to being dissolved by liquids.  Further experimentation has shown that if we burn the items in a pit along with some lignite, the items become hard and more resistant to liquids (they can still be seriously damage if exposed to liquid long enough and any liquid they contain will eventually leak out very slowly).  We have also found that, if we make and “fire” one of these in the form of a container with an open top and solid sides and a solid floor (which we call a “pot”), that they will retain water long enough for us to boil it (this requires us to separate the pot from the fire using stones so that the flames aren’t directly touching the pot, otherwise the pot will crack from the heat of the flames; also, as mentioned above, the water will eventually leak out if left in the pot long enough).  Finally, we have found that certain things that we previously couldn’t eat become edible when boiled in a pot (we also find that we can (optionally) boil many other food that doesn’t otherwise need to be boiled, making them more palatable).



Shooting Stones (and exploit 17-N) (requires access to: Textiles and Stone)

One day, someone was playing with a length of cord (a small rope) and found that if they wrapped it just right around a stone (and provided the stone wasn't too big or too small), they could swing it around.  They further found that, if they let go of one end of the cord while swinging the stone around and kept hold of the other end, they could cause the stone to shoot forth with deadly speed.  Fast enough (and hard enough) to shatter the skull of a cave bear.  They also found that, with practice, they could control where the stone hit.

With this new weapon, we can now protect ourselves from the cave bears and exploit the resources that they once prevented us from accessing.



Soul Sentries (builds on: Soul Scouts, Requires access to: Mourning Dew)

After our run-in with the spiders, we quickly came to the conclusion that we needed some way of providing us with early warning of their approach.  At first we considered tasking some of the living with keeping tabs on the foul arachnids, but there were few (if any) who would volunteer for such a task.  We soon came to the conclusion that the dead were the best for the task.  The dead have nothing to fear from the fangs of the spiders, after all.  This works similar to scouting an area with Soul Scouts, except that the Soul Sentries patrol an area and report on any movements of creatures in to, out of, through, or within that area.  As this is more long-term than the Soul Scouts, it is also necessary to periodically pass the task of patrolling an area on to a new (set of) Soul Sentr(y/ies) while allowing the old one(s) to pass on to the Whispering Lake.



Soul Drivers (Builds on: Soul Scouts, Requires access to: Mourning Dew)

The spiders are a serious threat.  But they could be made to do our bidding.

Soul Drivers are similar to Soul Scouts, except that they create a sense of fear, dread, and uneasiness that frightens and repels targeted creatures.  By carefully coordinating their movements, the Soul Drivers can herd creatures from one area to another.  This can have multiple uses.  It can be used to dispose of pests by driving them into something (such as magma) that is sure to kill them… or it can be used to “weaponize” such pests by herding such that the their only route to “safety” is through our enemies..  And we all know how vicious something can become if it is trying to escape and something is standing in it’s way.  Thus we can turn them into our own personal “armies”, and send them forth to terrorize our foes!



Soul Spies (Builds on: Soul Scouts, Requires access to: Mourning Dew)

Soul Spies are similar to Soul Scouts except that they spy on other tribes and report back their findings to the Wardens.  They are very useful in determining the strength and demeanor of other tribes and, because they are nearly impossible for uninitiated members of other tribes to detect, they are very effective.  In addition, they can also be used for targeted killings and spookings (e.g. of animals)…



As you can see, all but one are recycled.

The first suggestion would be our first step on the path of ceramics and open up new sources of food for us.

The second would give us our first weapons (it’s also the best I could come up with considering our utter lack of access to wood).

The third would give us early warning of the spiders (and other encroaching hazards).

The fourth would allow us to drive the spiders away (or perhaps weaponize their movements to our advantage).

The last suggestion would benefit us in our relations with the other tribes.



Edit:  updated Soul Drivers with the changes noted in a more recent post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181972.msg8517355#msg8517355) (and in Discord (https://discord.com/channels/604037974321135627/995498489993760819/1185665019623518228)).
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civilization Building Game [Expand III]
Post by: m1895 on December 16, 2023, 03:04:57 am
Mildly expanded upon for the experiment phase
Walls of Ghastly Aversion
With the risk of bears snooping around and the guaranteed trouble the spiders pose, some method of safeguarding our tunnels was deemed necessary.
A circle of glowrope is sized to a tunnel, two more lengths of rope are used to create a "doorway" at the center of the circle, and then the central ropes are vertically scoured along the sides. After that the whole thing is bundled together and plopped in mourning dew, an attuned is kept on hand to focus on the bundle as it marinates for the next couple hours. The bundle is then removed from the dew and secured in its tunnel as a fully finished wall of ghastly aversion, though physically unchanged any (un)living being can sense raw aura of death emanating from it.
Death by crushing force. Death by gnashing teeth. Death in all its forms understandable by all creatures. Of course if one passes through the wall they will come out the other side unharmed, for the wall is not made of death, but the fear of death. Humans are uniquely able to rationalize this fear, and our people's experience with mourning dew in general and Walls of Ghastly Aversion in specific means we are uniquely able to rationalize this fear among humans, so we can travel through about a half dozen walls in short order before being physically and emotionally exhausted. Now you may expect the Attuned to be hit harder by the death wall, and while that is true, they sense the one all-consuming fear as several smaller distinct "blocs" of fear that can be rationalized away individually, so on average they can make it through a few more before being exhausted.
Of course, our people naturally wondered why each wall felt minutely different. Little test walls were made, first only scouring specific spots along the rope, Then scouring particular patterns, and eventually crude carvings. The end result being rudimentary symbols covering a handful of broad fears of death, the crushing death, the bleeding death, the starving death, the... fearing death (among others)? All isolated in specific test walls, and if our people feel it necessary, walls of ghastly aversion can be made with these narrower concepts instead of the broad standard. Admittedly he biggest notable benefit is more in how our people can expand upon this knowledge base, with a minor boost to the ease of rationalizing through the walls, since we have a better understanding of how they work.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: Quarque on December 16, 2023, 04:32:43 am
The Soul Drivers could benefit from a more detailed description but if it gets a highroll (and the odds are good) it would be a great help for both defense and offense. We do not have a lack of angry bugs to weaponize.

Quote from: votebox
Major Families:

Minor Families:
Soul Drivers (1): Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on December 16, 2023, 05:27:13 am
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Soul Drivers (1.1): Minor families
Minor Families:
Soul Drivers (2): Quarque, TCK

I like the Soul spies as well, will be useful to determine whether the other tribes would remember us or something
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on December 16, 2023, 09:18:49 am
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Soul Drivers (2.1): Minor families, Crystalizedmire
Minor Families:
Soul Drivers (2): Quarque, TCK
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 16, 2023, 01:24:09 pm
Quote
Souldiers:
All sorts of souls find their way into our chthonic domain. Many (most?) wind up in the Whispering Lake, on their way to their eternal rest. Some may find themselves flowing in other directions, however- recovering from trauma in the Misty Chamber, sent to the Magma Lake for... punishment(?), imprisoned in the Depths... all these features have their own functions in the complex system that is the afterlife, no doubt. Far be it from us to interfere.
...well, far be it from us to interfere too much. A little bit of interference here and there never hurt anybody. Well, except for that one time. But let's not worry about that.
See, we have a large number of threats facing us currently. We could be like the Whispering Lake spirits and take a passive stance- avoiding them or trying to persuade them to leave. Or we could be like some of the spirits who wound up in the Depths. Aggressive. Proactive. Deadly.
The Lake-Attuned thinks it might be possible for aggressive spirits to... purify themselves in their post-mortal existence, thereby allowing them to pass through the Whispering Lake like their more passive brethren. They need to purge themselves of the anger that holds them back. And what better way to purge that anger than by killing some spiders (or centipedes or bears or rival tribes)? They do require guidance, but we can provide that.

An Attuned delves into the Depths, and makes a contract with one or more violent spirit(s) who wish for a second chance at the afterlife. The Attuned ('Souldier') gains the ability to channel the violence/anger/hatred of the spirits into waves of death, that will outright kill smaller creatures, and significantly weaken larger ones. Once a spirit's soul has been sufficiently cleansed, it is brought to the Whispering Lake. The Lake-Attuned will assist it in letting go of the last vestiges of anger, and ease its passage into the afterlife.
A handful of such Souldiers would be enough to keep a lot of angry wildlife at bay.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: Quarque on December 16, 2023, 02:12:31 pm
The souldrivers and walls of ghastly aversion are both great ideas.

But I like the souldiers even more. No trying to be cute; a brutal and direct approach. I feel this is what the situation calls for.

Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Walls of Ghastly aversion (0):
Soul Drivers (1): Crystalizedmire
Souldiers (0):
Minor Families:
Walls of Ghastly Aversion:
Soul Drivers (1): TCK
Souldiers (1): Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on December 16, 2023, 02:32:38 pm
I’m currently rewriting Soul Drivers, but I’m not completely sure how to expand on it…

Here’s what I have so far

```Soul Drivers (Builds on: Soul Scouts, Requires access to: Mourning Dew)

The spiders are a serious threat.  But they could be made to do our bidding.

Soul Drivers are similar to Soul Scouts, except that they create a sense of fear, dread, and uneasiness that frightens and repels targeted creatures.  By carefully coordinating their movements, the Soul Drivers can herd creatures from one area to another.  This can have multiple uses.  It can be used to dispose of pests by driving them into something (such as magma) that is sure to kill them… or it can be used to “weaponize” such pests by herding such that the their only route to “safety” is through our enemies..  And we all know how vicious something can become if it is trying to escape and something is standing in it’s way.  Thus we can turn them into our own personal “armies”, and send them forth to terrorize our foes!```

What do you think?  Any suggestions?  Was the original suggestion better?
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 17, 2023, 12:35:33 am
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Walls of Ghastly aversion (0):
Soul Drivers (1): Crystalizedmire
Souldiers (1.1): Minors
Minor Families:
Walls of Ghastly Aversion:
Soul Drivers (1): TCK
Souldiers (2): Quarque, NUKE9.13
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on December 17, 2023, 04:11:54 am
I’ve updated Soul Drivers with the changes noted in my previous post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181972.msg8517355#msg8517355) (and in Discord (https://discord.com/channels/604037974321135627/995498489993760819/1185665019623518228)).



Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Walls of Ghastly aversion (0):
Soul Drivers (1): Crystalizedmire
Souldiers (1.1): Minors
Minor Families:
Walls of Ghastly Aversion:
Soul Drivers (2): TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Souldiers (2): Quarque, NUKE9.13

Not sure how to update “Souldiers (1.1): Minors” in the Major Families votebox.  Also not sure why the minor families vote counts for more than a vote from a major family… I’m confused…
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: Quarque on December 17, 2023, 08:13:21 am
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Walls of Ghastly aversion (0):
Soul Drivers (1): Crystalizedmire
Souldiers (0):
Minor Families:
Walls of Ghastly Aversion:
Soul Drivers (2): TCK, A_Curious_Cat
Souldiers (2): Quarque, NUKE9.13

Fixed it. There is now a tie in the minor votebox, so the vote can't carry over for the moment.
When the minor family vote does carry over it counts as 1.1 to break ties in the major family votebox.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: The Canadian kitten on December 17, 2023, 05:10:47 pm

Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Walls of Ghastly aversion (0):
Soul Drivers (1): Crystalizedmire
Souldiers (1.1): Minor Families
Minor Families:
Walls of Ghastly Aversion:
Soul Drivers (1): A_Curious_Cat
Souldiers (3): Quarque, NUKE9.13, TCK

In interest of breaking the minor families tie, and also I like the idea of the Souldiers, switching over to that Idea.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Experiment III]
Post by: Powder Miner on December 19, 2023, 10:59:49 pm
I choose execution via nuke; I REALLY like the lore work NUKE does in Souldiers despite liking the mechanical idea maybe a little less; aspecting the individual Dew lakes is actually an incredibly fucking cool idea and has the potential to make that side of the game a lot, lot cooler.

Quote from: if i fix the votebox fast enough maybe m won't make fun of me for breaking it
Major Families:
Walls of Ghastly aversion (0):
Soul Drivers (1): Crystalizedmire
Souldiers (2.1): Powder Miner, Minor Families
Minor Families:
Walls of Ghastly Aversion:
Soul Drivers (1): A_Curious_Cat
Souldiers (3): Quarque, NUKE9.13, TCK
Title: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: Man of Paper on December 30, 2023, 10:16:22 pm
Experimentation III: Like A Man Possessed (Roll: 1)

With a firm grasp of what it meant to be Attuned, a Minor Family decided it was time to revisit The Depths that once haunted The Wardens of The Lake before they were Wardens (or knew of the Lake) [Nuke9.13 -2I].

Some very limited communication, mostly through feeling and emotion rather than any words projected to the mind, allowed Attuned the opportunity to learn about the nature of the spirits within the Dew. These individuals met their ends at the height of their rage, and this reflected in the roaring and shouting amid the growling, snarling, and whooping that assailed the Attuned. Those that had the strength of will to maintain some composure whispered to be let in, to be freed from the chains that tormented them. Some Attuned obliged.

Violent spiritual energy possessed the Attuned who had allowed themselves to be open to it, and each Attuned quickly found themselves in devastating spiritual struggles to maintain control of themselves. Unfortunately, any doubts meant that the Deep Spirits had a weakness to exploit, sometimes to violently explosive effect, freeing themselves from the body but being cursed to return back to The Depths. Out of those that survived the possession process, two subAttuned arose:

An Attuned who could definitively dominate the possessing spirit found themselves in a symbiotic relationship where they served as a vessel to carry the spirit and the focus through which it could "cleanse" itself and achieve a spiritual "neutral buoyancy" that would allow them to pass through The Whispering Lake. Cleansing was done by releasing the concentrated negative and aggressive energies that tainted the spirit. These energies collected in and projected from the lungs and manifest as deafening shouts, screams, and roars. The pure potent rage frightened the tribefolk even before it was concentrated and directed, and now, properly channeled, this rage could strike such a strong fear in those caught by the bellowing that any living creature would feel the need to flee if not outright die of shock.

This power doesn't come freely, though. Deepcriers who subject their foes to the horrifying howls of the Deep Spirits can do significant harm to themselves if they exert themselves too hard or often. Injury often starts with damage to the throat and mouth causing bleeding, gums and lips splitting, teeth cracking, and eventually bleeding from the nose, ears, and eyes until they lose consciousness. Even if they don't push themselves beyond their physical limits, using these powers is mentally exhausting and requires some moderation and self-control to practice successfully.

Unfortunately the vast majority of attempted Deepcriers weren't incredibly more powerful than the possessing spirits and found themselves quickly succumbing to the will of the Deep Spirit. The first incident occurred a few days after the first possessions. Those who hadn't burst apart had thought themselves clear of danger and were familiarizing themselves with their new partners when one of the Deepcriers began to fidget and twitch. The spasms were quickly accompanied by involuntary barks and yaps before they just snapped, yelling and screaming as loud as they could while trying to tear apart their fellow tribesfolk with their bare hands and gnashing teeth. A number of villagers were caught in the ensuing shouting match, resulting in a good few debilitating injuries and deaths. The Shrieker managed to survive and fled, killing more villagers in brutally violent attacks as it escaped. The few surviving Deepcriers isolated themselves from the rest of the tribe until they could be sure they wouldn't fall to their possessors as well.

The Shrieker plagued the tribe for a time, wandering the caverns until it came across someone it could tear apart. It constantly yelped and barked with ferocious and deadly intent as it went, inflicting harm on Wardens even when it's voice was simply echoing from a distant tunnel. The fear it instilled struck deep and immediately, so to keep The Shrieker from unexpectedly and consistently interfering with the tribe's day-to-day efforts small plugs of clay were crafted that could be pressed over the ears. They effectively blocked out sound, which initially hampered the tribe more than the Shrieker would, but the Wardens eventually developed a very basic hand-and-body language to communicate nonverbally to one another while they worked. This language spread throughout the tribe as time went on thanks to the clay buildup in the ears that plagued the tribe's workers especially badly. At this point the tribe is stuck between two forms of communication, with a rudimentary fusion language forming between them.

Tribefolk who survived encounters with The Shrieker noted how it had appeared to be withering away as if starving, with visible decay the last couple showings before it never came back. While no longer haunts the tribe, The Shrieker has left a mark that will be felt for a long time.


NEW DISCOVERIES:
Deep Spirits: Spirits that inhabit The Depths. Filled with a barely contained rage that carried over from their final moments. Difficult to restrain but extremely potent, Deep Spirits are best suited for tasks requiring violence. There is no direct cost for Deep Spirits, as any upkeep is reflected in the discoveries that utilize them.
Deepcriers: Attuned possessed by a Deep Spirit. Deepcriers channel the energies from the spirit in order to inflict harm on enemies in exchange for purifying the spirit and easing their passage to The Whispering Lake. The possessing process kills the weakest-willed individuals outright and leaves the weaker-willed susceptible to turning into Shriekers. Deepcriers use shouts and screams to manifest their power. Shriekers also do this, but are little more than feral beasts lashing out at everything until they die. The [Shrieker] modifier has a chance to be added to any tile being explored during the Exploration Phase while Deepcriers is funded. A potent combat unit with a major drawback. Requires exploitation of The Depths, and 4 Mourning Dew Upkeep thanks to the low success rate of the possession ritual.

Clay Earplugs: Small balls of elastic clay that can be formed and pressed over the ears to block out noise. Residue builds up in the ear over time. Requires 1 Clay Upkeep.

Semiverbal Communication: A mixture of rudimentary verbal language and a newly developing body language. Acts as a foundation for further language development. Not quite wholly adopted by the tribe at this time.



The few Deepcriers that survived until now have recently been found in their little cave home wrapped in silken strands and drained of all their life essences. At least, that's what the few Wardens traveling that way that made it back have said.


It is the Exploration Phase once again. You may choose to make a proposal to develop for your people that could aid them in exploration in some way, or you can propose a route to explore. Stonebreakers allow you to explore up to two tiles. These tiles must neighbor an already explored tile, and must connect to one anotherl. Soul-Scouts may also be used to scout another tile neighboring a previously explored tile independent of any other action you take during the phase. When proposing exploration plans, be sure to include whether or not you will be deploying Soul-Scouts. Remember that diagonal zones are considered neighboring.


Spoiler: The Age of Attunement (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Available Resources (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources By Region (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Families (click to show/hide)
TURNTURNTURN
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on December 30, 2023, 10:42:57 pm
I think we should explore 18-M and 18-N, and use soul scouts to explore 17-L.


Quote from: votebox
Major Families:

Minor Families:
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L(1): A_Curious_Cat
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: Powder Miner on December 30, 2023, 11:01:31 pm
I do want to maybe try making horrifying Shrieker zombies as one-way warcrime weapons if we survive the immediate future and get the Depths exploited. For this phase, though... I don't think we actually have a wait to get out to the 18 tile without waltzing out the tunnel right in front of the red tribe, UNLESS we send ghosts who can go through fucking walls and who aren't as intuitively going to be tracked by whoever the hell the pink guys are.

Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Explore 16-L and 17-L, use soul scouts to explore 18M (1): Powder Miner
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L (1.1): Minor Families
Minor Families:
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L (1): A_Curious_Cat
Explore 16-L and 17-L, use soul scouts to explore 18M (0):
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on December 30, 2023, 11:24:43 pm
For this phase, though... I don't think we actually have a wait to get out to the 18 tile without waltzing out the tunnel right in front of the red tribe, UNLESS we send ghosts who can go through fucking walls and who aren't as intuitively going to be tracked by whoever the hell the pink guys are.

Huh?  I was talking about exploring the underground parts of those tiles.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: Quarque on December 31, 2023, 01:47:54 pm
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Explore 16-L and 17-L, use soul scouts to explore 18M (1): Powder Miner
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L (0):
Minor Families:
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L (1): A_Curious_Cat
Explore 16-L and 17-L, use soul scouts to explore 18M (1): Quarque
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: Crystalizedmire on December 31, 2023, 01:53:06 pm
Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Explore 16-L and 17-L, use soul scouts to explore 18M (1): Powder Miner
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L (0):
Explore 16-L and 16-K, use soul scouts to explore 17-K (1): Crystalizedmire
Minor Families:
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L (1): A_Curious_Cat
Explore 16-L and 17-L, use soul scouts to explore 18M (1): Quarque
I just want to explore the areas that are still blank.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: Quarque on December 31, 2023, 02:02:11 pm
Please note, 16-L and 17-L are not blank on the map but they have not been scouted yet and we know almost nothing about that area.. and these are underground tiles that border our village. They should really be scouted asap.

Just our luck what happened with the shriekers, but we still have one expand phase and one experiment phase left to protect ourselves better from the spiders.
Title: Re: Founding Families - A Semicompetitive Civ Building Game [Explore IV]
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on December 31, 2023, 08:48:59 pm
I’ve decided not to explore 18-M and 18-N with regular Wardens due to the possibility that they might be discovered by the above ground tribes.  After considering the other two alternatives that others have posted, I think I like the proposal by Powder Miner and Quarque better.

Quote from: votebox
Major Families:
Explore 16-L and 17-L, use soul scouts to explore 18M (2.1): Powder Miner, Minor Families
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L (0):
Explore 16-L and 16-K, use soul scouts to explore 17-K (1): Crystalizedmire
Minor Families:
Explore 18-M and 18N, use soul scouts to explore 17-L (0):
Explore 16-L and 17-L, use soul scouts to explore 18M (2): Quarque, A_Curious_Cat