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Dwarf Fortress => DF Community Games & Stories => Topic started by: Salmeuk on October 28, 2023, 02:28:22 pm

Title: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - ended
Post by: Salmeuk on October 28, 2023, 02:28:22 pm
prepare to be judged

the task:

Over three in-game years, craft as many metal barrels as possible, and fill those barrels with booze. The player who presents the save file with the highest number of booze-filled metal barrels will be declared winner.

pretty dwarvenly, right?


the rules:

Players have until 11:59PM Sunday, November 19th to submit their saves.

1. you must use the embarks provided below
2. any metal will do, but the containers must be barrels. pots are NOT allowed.
3. any amount of booze in the barrel is valid. 1 unit or 20, the barrel is considered filled.
4. no cheating via speedhacks, spawning of materials, or other varieties of DFhackery. If you use a cleanup utility or other bug-prevention function, just announce this when you provide your save file.
5. savescumming is fine (but for your own sanity i wouldn't restart too much - it ruins the fun)
6. there is no need to arrange the barrels in stockpiles or anything fancy like that
7. you cannot abandon / reclaim the fortress

This contest will occur in both 47.05 and 50.11, so if you're unhappy with premium or still haven't purchased it, you may participate.

Players can attempt to win both contests if they have the spare time.

here is the embark for 47.05: https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=16899
 A volcanic peak, flanked by jungle forest. The ground is full of iron, but the area is savage and goblins are close.
here is the embark for 50.11: https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=16898
 A snow-covered forest gives way to a permafrost expanse. The ground is full of a variety of metal, but the area is savage and goblins are close.



After your turn is complete, submit the file to me via a DFFD link / personal message , and I will verify the score and confirm the winners. Players have until 11:59PM Sunday, November 19th to submit their saves.

per the wiki:
 
Quote
Each brewing job produces five units of alcohol per brewable item, and deposits the alcohol in the container, recovering any plant seeds in the process. The size of a stack does not affect how long it takes to brew it, which is based entirely on the brewer's skill...

please ask any questions that come to mind, as this may allow us to further define the rules

While this will be 'competitive' it is, obviously, still very casual and fun and I'm mostly interested in the sorts of strategies that develop.

Feel free to post here for notifications, or if you want to share strategies.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Competition!
Post by: BlueTrillium on October 28, 2023, 10:47:01 pm
Tentative interest, I've got a couple days off in the next two weeks; might be enough time to participate. I haven't used someone else's save/embark before though so I'll have to look up instructions for that if I do. xD (Though I do have a dffd account, I haven't used it for anything so far.)

*edit to add* I'm currently not looking to start using DFHack, so hopefully it (or other mods) aren't required. If they are, then maybe I'd just put myself in 'hard mode' and try it without.

*edit 2* For my own ref (and/or anyone else that wants it) - link to previous fort competition thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177212.0).
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Competition!
Post by: neblime on October 30, 2023, 03:39:26 am
so is the idea to do it in the minimum in game time or minimum irl time?
you can count me interested
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Salmeuk on November 01, 2023, 08:02:06 am
so is the idea to do it in the minimum in game time or minimum irl time?
you can count me interested

OP has been updated with details. get brewin' !

if you are playing or planning to play, make a post, let us know.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: King Zultan on November 02, 2023, 12:13:13 am
PTW
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Wolfkey on November 02, 2023, 12:29:43 am
This contest will occur in both 47.05 and 50.11, so if you're unhappy with premium or still haven't purchased it, you may participate.
There is a free version of 50.11 on https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ (without the new graphics or music)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Salmeuk on November 02, 2023, 10:17:20 am
Nice! Forgot that was made available.


*edit 2* For my own ref (and/or anyone else that wants it) - link to previous fort competition thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177212.0).

thanks for posting this. I was kinda too lazy to dig up the link but it might be useful for other's reference.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: BlueTrillium on November 02, 2023, 09:28:58 pm
You're welcome! OOoh, I'm a couple days behind. Ah well I couldn't have done anything yesterday anyhow. Snowy fortress/permafrost, huh? That'll be definitely something new to me! I've only done warmer climes so far. I'll take a look. xD
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Salmeuk on November 03, 2023, 09:59:11 am
You're welcome! OOoh, I'm a couple days behind. Ah well I couldn't have done anything yesterday anyhow. Snowy fortress/permafrost, huh? That'll be definitely something new to me! I've only done warmer climes so far. I'll take a look. xD

when I started my run, i had a yeti spawn in! 411 years old.

after about a year, my only advice is to focus on seed production early. seems like that is one of the larger bottlenecks for this kind of thing. three years is quite the timecrunch for setting up multiple industries (metalcrafting, farming/brewing). especially if you go for magma like I did
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: BlueTrillium on November 03, 2023, 11:02:36 pm
I haven't even unpaused yet lol. xD I feel self-conscious that someone else will actually see my fort for once so I'm actually trying to plan things out first so they look nicer than my usual mishmash of cubes. And I am also like AHHHH WHERE WATER lol. (Guess we'll find out if there's an aquifer, or if I need to go to caverns, etc). I did note the bituminous coal exposed along the northern ramp/cliffs for when I actually start moving! xD I am... unlikely to go all the way to magma (at least in time for this round anyway) but we'll see.

*edit* Uh. Oh dear. xDD Well !FUN! with water was had. That is... one HECK of an aquifer lol.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: neblime on November 05, 2023, 04:38:20 pm
Count this as my signup post.. when i get home i'm going to give it a go
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: neblime on November 06, 2023, 05:29:35 am
jesus christ there are already yetis roaming on the start of the 50.11 save
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Salmeuk on November 06, 2023, 12:11:47 pm
hehehe

so I've finished and scored my 50.11 attempt. I might try 47.05 as well.

biggest advice is: farm for seeds early, but even more importantly, make sure you make trade goods or fortress wealth in the first year. if you don't, migrants wont arrive, and this really bottlenecked me during the second year.

i ended up spamming gem windows and this was effective.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: neblime on November 07, 2023, 02:13:55 am
so is the idea that we won't reveal our scores until the deadline? I'm still only in year 2... any advice for how to count the barrels? i can see how many barrels i have, and how many drinks I have but theres nowhere that lists both is there (in 50.11)?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: neblime on November 07, 2023, 06:18:28 am
OH DEAR
(https://i.ibb.co/hYhcD01/ohlawd.png)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Salmeuk on November 07, 2023, 03:31:36 pm
you can just send me the save and I will count / verify. I have a system worked out but it is a bit wonky to total..

OH DEAR
(https://i.ibb.co/hYhcD01/ohlawd.png)

the bear is simply there for some beer. have no fear. ignore the blood stained fur
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: BlueTrillium on November 07, 2023, 11:10:48 pm
Hehe xD Giant polar bear sounds terrifying!! On my part, I had a tribe (approx 6) of polar bear men & women... AND a yeti. (also a flock of puffins which were cute but fortunately did not add to the issue). *edit* Oh yeah and I had a herd of moose come through too. *end edit* I think there's enough time... my current run is already a disaster but I think I'll just go with it and see how bad I do (I already missed 3 waves of migrants for various reasons...) and then start fresh to see what goes differently.

I did think of a question - we've got 3 years. Is the end date Granite 1 of year 103 (first of the year), or Granite 15 of year 103 (3rd anniversary of our embark date)? xD 15 days probably won't make much difference but I don't want to accidentally go extra if it's the 1st.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Salmeuk on November 10, 2023, 03:07:16 pm
ah right! end is Granite 15, due to my error in letting the save run for a bit when generating haha. so when the date turns to Granite 15, just pause and save at that moment.

Quote
I had a tribe (approx 6) of polar bear men & women...

i had the same group attack us and go for the beer stocks. there were no survivors
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: neblime on November 11, 2023, 12:57:23 am
how do above ground plants work in 50.11? is it civ based? because I don't have many options for some reason...
Also did you disable caves you sly elf?

edit- turns out im just REALLY bad at finding caves...
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Wolfkey on November 11, 2023, 01:18:49 am
how do above ground plants work in 50.11? is it civ based? because I don't have many options for some reason...
Also did you disable caves you sly elf?

I think it is biome based
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: BlueTrillium on November 11, 2023, 05:18:09 pm
Yeah, aboveground plants are based on biome and temp and all those good things. So certain corners of your embark area may be able to grow different aboveground plants than others (even if you roof over your aboveground plots).
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: neblime on November 11, 2023, 08:54:49 pm
well in the end i was limited by fuel/barrels and not plants..
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: BlueTrillium on November 18, 2023, 02:57:25 pm
Huzzah! Just finished my final attempt and sending it over shortly. I think it went pretty well, despite all the polar bears and emus haha. xD Definitely still many things I could've done differently, and I long since gave up on making it pretty, but we'll see how it stacks up! *thumbsup* Looking forward to seeing everyone's numbers!

Some entertaining images from my doomed initial attempt (it does not do to underestimate even light aquifers...)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1172249725643272212/image.png?ex=6568dc21&is=65566721&hm=08cff83784f396124ba71823ac465f98280d1a8c72d18453e22079a75ef48efb&=&width=358&height=245)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1102029576890232862/1172249902600953927/image.png?ex=6568dc4c&is=6556674c&hm=3189192a0ebedc482be135e53ec42ea6662342b0abdf0600bb4682f664fb1ba1&=&width=763&height=651)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Salmeuk on November 19, 2023, 11:16:28 am
nice... the aquifers gave me a fair amount of trouble as well if I recall. easy to have the water level sneak up on you.

 alright. saves due tonight. I will tally up the scores tomorrow and post my fortress walkthrough analysis soonish.

Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: Salmeuk on November 22, 2023, 11:45:36 am
The barrels have been tallied. my method was to delete all empty or food containing barrels, and all wooden barrels, thus leaving only the metal brew-filled barrels. I may have missed one or two but I feel confident in my counting, and the saves are available for review if you wish.

my save: https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=16914
my playthrough VODs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icOnXmCI-PU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSm7u0U4Ze4

bluetrillium's: https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=16909
neblime's: https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=16903

Neblime's results:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Salmeuk's results:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bluetrillium's results:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I will thus crown myself Winner of the First Brewing Contest of 2023.  hold your applause for the afterparty. I also have received an honorary "Golden Barrel of Fermentation" prize from the committee.


strategy review:

welp. I 'won' but I suspect this was due to the fact I was the only one to not bother with hauling the barrels. you know how much these things weigh?! I should have emphasized this part of the strategy for fairness, or defined further that barrels SHOULD be hauled to a stockpile. because I think if I was also bringing those barrels to a stockpile I would have scored quite a bit less. all competitions are a lie, the system is rigged, etc etc

so with that fact in mind, I was also the only one to reach for magma. it looks like Neblime tried as well but ran into cavern shenanigans, as in, they failed to breach them in the first sunk shaft. probably a big delay there.

BlueTrillium's base is extremely compact, never going deeper than level 0 in fact. this base also showed the most improvements adjacent to the competition, like the waterfall generators and individual rooms. All I can say is that these dwarves may be happy, but are they profitable? is the red line going up? YOU CAN RELAX WHEN YOU'RE DEAD I SAY

i gotta admit that my use of minecarts was important af for my score... getting hundreds of heavy barrels from the magma smelters up a few z levels was taking forever. so I carved a track. first time it was useful, and only for the context of this massive overproduction. I think dwarf fortress needs balancing hehehe

as far as mining and metals go, digging deep provided me with very close metal ore to the smelters. and I was able to move some farming down there too. so my only real takeaway from this challenge is:

hauling created goods to stockpiles is a huge task generator and generally a waste of time
minecarts can be situationally important, even necessary
a dense fortress is the most efficient, in a dramatic and compounding way


any thoughts from the other participants?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - embarks are live!
Post by: BlueTrillium on November 22, 2023, 07:00:13 pm
Hm, I'd say that at least I never *felt* slowed down by the hauling tasks -- then again I was generally just hauling in a random fashion whenever I felt there were too many barrels piling up in my stills.

Overall despite the loss via # of barrels, I see from the screenshots drink stocks I may have had the *fullest* drink barrels haha. xD
And I had a bunch of fun, definitely pleased with my first attempt at a community game. *thumbsup*

That said, there are definitely things I could've done to produce more/faster.

Firstly, while I did manage to get all the migrant waves with my second try, the initial 2-4 waves were still quite small, only like 2 dwarves apiece. This kept me struggling a bit with not enough dwarves to do everything I felt needed to be done. (Of course, after things really took off, I had more dwarves than I knew what to do with, lol -- thus letting them spend time hauling barrels around. Even with that, I'd say there was easily a third of my population hanging out in the tavern with those mist generators most of the time). I think I made some relatively unwise requests from the dwarven caravans early on that took up their weight so I didn't get enough other things to help bring up my wealth faster (or maybe I was just unlucky with what they chose to bring). I maybe also should've gifted those first caravans more so they reported better 'profit'.

Secondly, I probably should've had more workshops going (once I had dwarves for them). I stuck to just 2 metalsmiths and 2 stills (and even then, I only went up to 2 each after I was halfway through).

Thirdly, I screwed up my stockpiles for brewable plants (accidentally allowed barrels and never got up the motivation to delete the stockpiles, clear them out, and set the stockpiles properly) which meant I frequently had cancelled brewing jobs because they couldn't access the barrels (because they were in use by dwarves delivering more plants into them). So there were definitely times when the stills were idle that they didn't need to be and required too much micro management. I also should've set up better orders for brewing. (Though, irrelevant to the challenge, I am *very* pleased at how my gem cutting orders worked out this fort, I experimented with a new strategy there and will be using that plan again. xD)

Fourthly, I let coal use get ahead of me a time or two, stopping the smiths while I dug out more. If I'd kept on top of it better, I could've had more continuous production there too.

----

Even running the game for another season or so netted me a good 100 more barrels of drink, so if it'd gone longer I think there'd have been quite a difference, though still not enough to improve my spot, I'm sure. xD Although maybe it was just as well the challenge ended when it did, because barely one month later, with the Mid-Spring 103 full moon, we got a visitor...
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1102029576890232862/1175556313686745088/image.png?ex=656ba921&is=65593421&hm=b2b70a128ede92ef32344f862c126b1352f80d09e71f59a00af07a9f22ef9762&)
And then the goblin sieges started. xDD (And I dunno about you guys but my 'militia' was thoroughly untrained and 'equipped' only with that starting copper stuff... let's just say I added a few more tombs.)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - ended
Post by: Salmeuk on November 22, 2023, 08:42:55 pm
haha nice. . it seems like the three year cutoff was perfect timing to avoid the were's.

Quote
I see from the screenshots drink stocks I may have had the *fullest* drink barrels haha.

so my barrels are like when you buy a bag of chips and it's mostly air  ? lol .

Quote
(Though, irrelevant to the challenge, I am *very* pleased at how my gem cutting orders worked out this fort, I experimented with a new strategy there and will be using that plan again. xD)

I'm curious?

Quote
Thirdly, I screwed up my stockpiles for brewable plants (accidentally allowed barrels and never got up the motivation to delete the stockpiles, clear them out, and set the stockpiles properly) which meant I frequently had cancelled brewing jobs because they couldn't access the barrels (because they were in use by dwarves delivering more plants into them).

you know, this challenge really emphasizes how much of a  trap stockpiles are. sometimes, they hurt more than they help

welp. I think I will simply make a new thread for the next contest. Expect that to pop up in a few days here!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress brewing contest - ended
Post by: BlueTrillium on November 23, 2023, 01:09:08 pm
Re the Gem Cutting orders --

I read somewhere, quite a while back, that the only way (outside of moods) to get Large Gems currently is to set an order to cut a specific gem (e.g. not just a general "cut gems" order, but "cut pink jades" or similar). You still only get large gems randomly among regular cut gems, but it's at least *possible*. Now, Large Gems are useless outside of display/trading, but still they're kinda interesting... What can I say, I like pretty colored rocks. (though in RL I prefer my colorful polymer dice sets lol I have way too many)

So in this fort, I set up a new work order whenever I found a new type of gem, to cut that particular kind of gem (keeping up to 3 rough ones in reserve for moods -- three was maybe too many but, that's easily changed). So I set up orders to cut pink jades, cut citrines, cut onyxes, cut white chalcedonies, etc. It's a lot of orders in a group, but since I only set them up for gems I actually encountered, it was pretty simple. And I did get multiple large gems out of it, which ended up to my benefit as the home civilization actually requested large gems one year during the challenge.

Probably not actually profitable or especially useful really, but I enjoyed the streamlined nature of how those orders were literally 'set it and forget it', and I could just look in my stocks every once in a while and see what cool shapes of large gem I'd gotten since last time. xD In future forts I could see this providing handy decorations for temples and guildhalls, or anywhere I want a nice looking display.

So I just felt really proud and entertained that my plan worked so easily and smoothly.