No matter what experience I am or how injured the spider is, it seems the moment they spray web I'm just hosed. No joke, once I had a spider with all 8 legs broken from thrown rocks and its remaining body parts in the gray when my charging axe men was sprayed with web. He was consumed slowly.
Well, after playing all this time, I still have a lot of problems with the game so could any experienced adventurer help me?
1. How do I eat or drink stuff? I once had a water skin with 3 (pieces, one can only assume) of water inside but I have no idea or to drink it, had to travel out of the map to refresh.
2. How do you use the wrestling system? I'm always just grabbing and letting people go. Unless I'm pinching them, but that hardly seems to do anything
3. Where can I buy new items, and what should I buy? 2000+ pieces of copper is incredibly heavy. Most towns only have one or two shops, and while sometimes you luck out with iron platemail, most of the time they have the same leather stuff I loot off zombies. I run out of arrows and my bow just becomes useless without anyplace to restock.
4. Where can I find item stats? How do I know what does more damage?
5. Is there any way to reduce lag? It really is a game killer.
6. How are stat growths determined? Is it dependent on what skill you level up?
[ November 04, 2007: Message edited by: Fishersalwaysdie ]
quote:
Originally posted by doomlichen:
<STRONG>1. How do I eat or drink stuff? I once had a water skin with 3 (pieces, one can only assume) of water inside but I have no idea or to drink it, had to travel out of the map to refresh.</STRONG>
Press e for 'e'ating. There's no separate 'q'uaffing or 'd'rinking presumably because a) it's simpler and b) the interface is pretty low on the totem pole when it comes to development time (kind of shame, but a testament to the strength of the whole considering it's *still* fun to play and playable). Also, probably c) bad effects for drinking nasty things hasn't been implemented yet (there is currently a one-line placeholder for trying to drink vomit/eat mud), which means of course that there's no real incentive to be careful about where you put your fingers.
quote:
Originally posted by doomlichen:
<STRONG>2. How do you use the wrestling system? I'm always just grabbing and letting people go. Unless I'm pinching them, but that hardly seems to do anything</STRONG>
Wrestling is powerful, but it's not very intuitive and there's not much variety in what you can do. Grabs can be done by any limb to any limb AIR, and after locking the joint (which should be the first choice in the menu once you make the grab) you can try to break it. For example, you can stick your upper right arm around a guy's left upper leg, lock his knee, and try to break it. Usually, the first try or two will only sprain, but after that... well, the limb becomes useless. Limbs that can be used to attack (weapon-bearing arms) will no longer be used to attack (instant de-dangerizer of anybody not using a crossbow), and limbs that are used for standing (legs, or rear legs for four-legged creatures) when broken result in the creature being forced into prone position (which slows them down a *lot*). Gouging and strangling are pretty much the only other really notable wrestling moves right now, but to do them you need a free hand (if this is the only person you're fighting or the other enemies aren't nearby, I suggest dropping the shield, but otherwise just kill them with your weapon instead). Once you have a free hand, you'll have to scroll through the lengthy list of possible grabs towards the ones that actually involve your hand, then go for a head grab if you want to gouge out the enemy's eye(s), or a throat grab if you want to strangle them. Gouging eyes causes massive bleeding and robs your opponent of sight, and strangling your opponents currently is equivalent actually to ripping them out (Toady compared it to a scene from Road House), which also results in deadly bleeding and also unconsciousness. If you are a crazy bastard like me (or a Vulcan, depending on who you ask.. >_> ) you can also just hit them once or twice with a weapon, drop something, grab them with a free hand and start pinching them. It's not as efficient as zombie wrestling, but it works about as well in a... pinch. You'd be surprised how long you can keep a peasant unconscious with just pinching, and it even trains Armor User skill..
quote:
Originally posted by doomlichen:
<STRONG>3. Where can I buy new items, and what should I buy? 2000+ pieces of copper is incredibly heavy. Most towns only have one or two shops, and while sometimes you luck out with iron platemail, most of the time they have the same leather stuff I loot off zombies. I run out of arrows and my bow just becomes useless without anyplace to restock.</STRONG>
1. Try not to carry any money if you can help it. More than likely, proper exchange rates are low on the development list, and because of that different civs *don't* have exchange rates; i.e. your money will be *worthless* if you travel too far from the civ you got it from. One idea (that has been suggested before, though I know not whom originally said this) is to buy jewellery with the leftover $ and use that as your currency.
2. One of the issues with this version is the sprawl inherent in human towns; it's apparently possible to get a minimap of the town, but only if you take a quest from the mayor. Suffice it to say that there *should* be at least one: weapon shop, armor shop, jewellery shop, meat shop, and bar in every human town (I feel like I've missed something [besides the har har obvious apartments], but I can't think of it). If you can't find it, that doesn't mean it isn't there, though if you get the minimap and it really isn't then there could be a problem (I would kinda like it if there was a chance for multiple stores/no stores in a town depending on what the available materials were, but balancing that will be a nightmare and probably won't happen for awhile).
3. Unfortunately, your arrow problem is a longstanding adventure mode issue. I have no idea when Toady's gonna fix it. In the meantime, get another weapon (if nothing else, at least as a backup).
quote:
Originally posted by doomlichen:
<STRONG>4. Where can I find item stats? How do I know what does more damage?</STRONG>
DF/raw/objects/item_weapon.txt will give you the basic information, but a little explanation will still be in order even after looking at that. See, DF has different damage types (as well it should); bludgeon/blunt damage, pierce damage, slash damage, and gore damage (more would be awesome, but for now this is dandy). Blunt damage is good for the raw power, pierce damage will shred internal organs, and slash damage can chop off limbs/chop up bodies and heads. Whips (which employ gore damage) are an oddity; they can hit eyes and cause lots of bleeding and pain, but don't really have the damage to compete with other types of weapons (though in comparing it to the other attacks in the game that use gore damage, I realize the potency of those other attacks comes from being able to latch... perhaps if whips could latch and tear off chunks as well, they would be a bit more useful). More damage is not necessarily better in this game, and different monsters require different tactics to defeat. Ideally you'd be experienced in all of the weapons so as to be able to sufficiently prepare yourself, but since there aren't any 'safe' training arenas (led by the civilized military groups/towns), that's not a terribly feasible thing to do; there is, however, the option of taking along some experienced friends along to slay the quest monster, though you have to hope that they don't get themselves killed along the way and/or separate from you such that you can't *find* them in time to save their ass from being slain. Throwing right now, however, is currently insanely broken when it comes to its power and as such actually pwns all other weapon choices (not saying you should *only* throw, just stating facts; feel free to go with something healthy and non-broken, like.. say, an axe!).
quote:
Originally posted by doomlichen:
<STRONG>5. Is there any way to reduce lag? It really is a game killer.</STRONG>
Are you using the latest version (33a)? It solves the Z-Axis lag, though towns are still not fluid for me (could be just my comp, though).
quote:
Originally posted by doomlichen:
<STRONG>6. How are stat growths determined? Is it dependent on what skill you level up?</STRONG>
Stat growth is determined by your overall accumulation of skill points as a whole. If it were possible, and you dabbled in each and every skill equally, it's rather likely you could get some stats even when your highest skill level was only Novice. Maybe in the future this will change to better reflect the training, but for now, this is how it is. As mentioned above, *which* stat is upgraded is random.
[ November 04, 2007: Message edited by: BDR ]
Yeah, one time I fought a cave spider, well, I was trashed by a cave spider. Luckily my spearcatchers leaped to my aid and slew the thing by shear force of numbers -- I had 7 or so. (None of them died either, which is always surprising.) I had a mangled leg, I was partially paralyzed, I was going unconscious about every 3 or 4 turns, I was in bad shape! I was trying to crawl to the exit of the cave, when I realized that I could just press "T" and fast travel out of there! So I did and I got to town in one piece.
I lost about half of my drunks, and was unable to repeat my earlier success when I bumped, alone, into another cave spider.
code:
X@X
X.X
X.X
X.X
..S
From that position they don't seem to move towards you at all, so I would just hurl sand at them until they were mangled enough for me to move into melee. When that failed, I repeatedly disengaged (since my spear kept getting stuck) and did more throwing while the spiders chewed on my "friends". I even had to go on a long trek to the nearest human town to buy a replacement spear after my crappy wooden one got stuck in a spider and I couldn't get it out.
Of course, just because you can kill spiders doesn't mean they can't kill you. A moment of carelessness -- I had been down a corridor on previous visits so I assumed it was safe immediately after a final kill -- and I found myself in the grasp of an unexpected spider, who first tore me to shreds and then destroyed the rest of my somewhat-crippled party.
Moral of the story: Spiders are killable. But if you find a cave with spiders in it... It might not be worth the hassle, unless you're decked out in artifact and/or adamant gear and have a lot of friends. Even then... be wary.
Lowering their size, bite damage, or simply removing their web ability should do it.
Personally, I do think a paralyzing bite that does the same base damage as a dragon bite AND webbing is a bit much.
I really thought you needed a hand free to strangle someone.. hm. Well, in that case, it's a lot safer....
Hmm... hostage situation... ?
(Hmm... hostage situation... counterstrike... something's wrong here... :P)
this combined with their sheer number of limbs makes them kind of a bitch to kill.
Ah well. At least you can still make them vomit, that reduces their danger level somewhat.
It was fairly epic.
Cave spider. The bastard grabs my highly-armored swordsman and TEARS HIM IN HALF IN ONE SHAKE. I now must make a fortress and build an arena to stock with these engines of death. One giant cave spider vs 10 goblins, tonight on Dwarven Colosseum!
[ November 17, 2007: Message edited by: Tyrving ]
quote:
Also, you don't need to continuously strangle somebody to do damage, you do it only to gain skills.
Actually that isn't true. If you strangle a non-undead continuously, it is similar to twisting a stuckin weapon. The opponent will bleed to death from it. Basically strangling suffocates them for a relatively quick death.
I have found this incredibly useful against foes that are hard to damage which I get in lucky hits that knock them unconcious.
For example, I had a hammerman knock a dragon unconcious once after a long battle of doing absolutely no damage, and then I simply grabbed its throat and strangled it until it died. It would have been a MUCH longer fight still if I hadn't done so, and with my charred leg I might even have lost.
if cavespiders are so dangerous perhaps think of killing more zombies solo and frogmens
i can manage to take out an entire human village with a fresh adventurer.. usually by stealing high quality weapons
i think the great axe is the better weapon to use if you are human
hmm, ive not had much trouble surviving since the new z-layers
previously i couldnt get my adventurer going more than an hour before he was often choked
yes choking is the best method to kill a monster
simple 3 step process
grab throat with ** arm
choke with ** arm
repeat choke infinite
but its more fun to break all their legs and arms
ive not yet had a legendary adventurer
although... ive had one studded in masterful quality steel plate armors
trouble with wooded areas is the line of sight, it dramatically lowers your frame rate
sleeping is my big problem
i get 4 or 9 fps
making the sleep take about 5-10 minutes
rather snoozable it is
whereas it should really only take 20-30 seconds or less
hmm..... time to continue my adventure character
oh wait... yes
i did destroy that town
atleast the mayor survived
I checked the legends, and (If i read them right) it said the giant was mortally wounded! :D woohoo! My first questkill! Now if I could just find that spider....
quote:
You pick up the X*Iron arrow*X and put it in your Rope reed backpack.
The flying X*Iron arrow*X strikes The giant cave spider in the cephalothorax!
It is pierced through entirely!
The giant cave spider has been shot and killed.
BOOM HEADSHOT!!!
They are FEARSOME for a while, but once you get to be pretty badass, they're simple.
Was able to (T)ravel out and retired her at a nearby town. The quest to kill the kobold elite bowman would have been safer than this.
Sure, if you see them and get off a charge, you can take it out quick, but no matter what, one lucky shot of poison and you're as good as dead.
Legendary Super Hax took down 23 giant cave spiders in his career, before the last one survived getting 3 legs chopped off and bit his head off.
It was a couple tiles away and hadn't webbed me, so I charged at it. In the first bunch of rounds I knocked it down and managed to break half its legs with my axe. It webbed me and a giant rat joined in the attack on me. They both got a hit in, but neither did any damage. I got myself loose, bashed the rat away, then continued hacking at the spider's legs before one hit finally sliced open its cephalothorax, striking it down.
I hadn't received any damage in that fight, so I was feeling pretty good about myself. I killed the giant rat that had joined the spider against me and then looked around for the minotaur. Turning a corner, my screen was suddenly filled with announcements:
quote:
The giant cave spider shoots out thick strands of webbing!
You are caught up in the web!
The giant cave spider bites You in the left foot!
The shot glances away.
The giant cave spider bites You in the head!
It is torn!
Your left ear has been badly torn!
Your nose has been badly torn!
You feel numb!
The giant cave spider latches on firmly!
You are feeling sluggish!
The giant cave spider shakes You around by the head!
It is broken!
You are partially free of the web.
You are completely free of the web.
The giant cave spider shakes You around by the head!
It is mangled!
The giant cave spider shakes You around by the head!
It is torn apart!
You have been struck down.
Dammit. :mad:
quote:
Originally posted by BDR:
<STRONG>Hm, forgot to mention that item material and the quality of the weapon makes a difference in the damage as well. I don't remember all of them, but unless you mod humans to have steel/obsidian/adamantium available, the best material type you can find weapons/armor as is iron, followed by (presumably) Bismuth bronze, bronze, and copper (I don't quite know what else humans have access to in the current version, as I admittedly haven't played Adventure mode much). Quality modifiers can be found in the in-game/'?' help section, and one of the nice improvements (which is on by default) in this version is that, if the item is decorated, you can now see at a glance (without having to actually view the item up close and personal) whether it is just superiorly decorated (*<<iron>>*) or if it's actually a superior weapon as well (*<<iron>>*). Nicely decorated weapons are nice, but they won't hit stuff any better than a non-decorated one, and they're also inevitably pricier.I really thought you needed a hand free to strangle someone.. hm. Well, in that case, it's a lot safer....</STRONG>
I start in a town with iron most of the time. You can't get anything better with humans? That sucks.
quote:
Originally posted by BDR:
<STRONG>Hm, forgot to mention that item material and the quality of the weapon makes a difference in the damage as well. I don't remember all of them, but unless you mod humans to have steel/obsidian/adamantium available, the best material type you can find weapons/armor as is iron, followed by (presumably) Bismuth bronze, bronze, and copper (I don't quite know what else humans have access to in the current version, as I admittedly haven't played Adventure mode much).</STRONG>
how would you mod humans to be able to do this? I can't find anything in the human file about it.
Being curious, I wandered in and saw a named Giant Cave Spider standing over its remains. Needless to say, I ran out of there as fast as my legs could carry me.
quote:You aint' seen nothing, kid.
Originally posted by God of Toast:
<STRONG>I've been chased by a Iron man, two cavespiders, and a cyclops. All at the same time.</STRONG>
Was exploring a well-developed abandoned fortress in the 2D version (in hopes of getting better gear). Battled my way to the cave river. Doors open. What do I see? Two or three giant cave spiders, more iron men than I can easily count, and enough other beasties to densely populate a 5 wide corridor all the way to the limits of my line of sight.
I did eventually bite it on the grimly-fought retreat, but only after battling two days and a night, littering the place with iron statues, and even managing to off a giant cave spider. That dwarf has servants a-plenty in Valhalla.
[ December 14, 2007: Message edited by: Fedor ]
quote:
Originally posted by Fedor:
<STRONG>Was exploring a well-developed abandoned fortress in the 2D version (in hopes of getting better gear). </STRONG>
There's a 3D version? Or am I just not understanding something?
quote:
Originally posted by Helmaroc:
<STRONG>There's a 3D version? Or am I just not understanding something?</STRONG>
Yeah, the newer versions. He means the old ones with no z-axis.