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Other Projects => Curses => Topic started by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 18, 2008, 05:18:51 am

Title: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 18, 2008, 05:18:51 am
This took some six hours at least. It's a lot harder than it looks. :P

New base stats:
8 HRT, 3 INT, 1 WIS, 4 CHA, 4 STR, 5 AGI, 6 HTH

The day I was born in 1984...
A - the Polish priest Popieluszko was kidnapped by government agents. (+2 AGI)
B - was the 3rd anniversary of the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan. (+2 STR)
C - the Macintosh was introduced. (+2 INT)
D - the Nobel Peace Prize went to Desmond Tutu for opposition to apartheid. (+2 HRT)
E - the Sandanista Front won the elections in Nicaragua. (+2 CHA)

My parents named me <propername>.

---

When I was bad...
A - my parents grounded me and hid my toys, but I knew where they put them. (+1 AGI, +1 Security)
B - my father beat me.  I learned to take a punch earlier than most. (+1 HTH, +1 Martial Arts)
C - I was sent to my room, where I studied quietly by myself, alone. (+1 INT, +1 Writing)
D - my father lectured me endlessly, trying to make me think like him. (+1 HRT, +1 Interrogation)
E - my parents argued with each other about me, but I was never punished. (+1 CHA, +1 Persuasion)

---

In elementary school...
A - I was mischevious, and always up to something. (+1 AGI, +1 Disguise)
B - I had a lot of repressed anger.  I hurt animals. (+1 STR, +1 AGI, -1 HRT, +1 Interrogation)
C - I was at the head of the class, and I worked very hard. (+1 INT, +1 Writing)
D - I was unruly and often fought with the other children. (+1 STR, +1 Martial Arts)
E - I was the class clown.  I even had some friends. (+1 CHA, +1 Persuasion)

---

When I turned 10...
A - my parents divorced.  Whenever I talked, they argued, so I stayed quiet. (+1 Stealth)
B - my parents divorced.  Violently. (+1 Martial Arts)
C - my parents divorced.  Acrimoniously.  I once tripped over the paperwork! (+1 Law)
D - my parents divorced.  Mom slept with the divorce lawyer. (+1 Seduction)
E - my parents divorced.  It still hurts to read my old diary. (+1 Writing)

---

In junior high school...
A - I was into chemistry.  I wanted to know what made the world tick. (+2 INT, +2 Science)
B - I played guitar in a grunge band.  We sucked, but so did life. (+2 CHA, +2 Music)
C - I played violent video games at home.  I was a total outcast. (+2 AGI, +2 Computers)
D - I drew things, a lot.  I was drawing a world better than this. (+2 HRT, +2 Art)
E - I was obsessed with swords, and started lifting weights. (+2 STR, +2 Sword)

---

Things were getting really bad...
A - when I stole my first car.  I got a few blocks before I totalled it. (+1 Driving, +1 Security)
B - and I went to live with my dad.  He had been in Nam and he still drank. (+1 Shotgun, +1 Rifle)
C - and I went completely goth.  I had no friends and made costumes by myself. (+2 Garment Making)
D - when I was sent to religious counseling, just stressing me out more. (+1 Religion, +1 Interrogation)
E - and I tried being a teacher's assistant.  It just made me a target. (+2 Teaching)

---

Well, I knew it had reached a crescendo when...
A - I stole a cop car when I was only 14.  I went to juvie for 6 months. (+1 INT, +1 Driving, +1 Security)
B - my stepmom shot her ex-husband, my dad, with a shotgun.  She got off. (+1 AGI, +2 Shotgun)
C - I tried wrestling for a quarter, desperate to fit in. (+1 STR, +2 Martial Arts)
D - I got caught making out, and now I needed be 'cured' of homosexuality. (+1 HRT, +1 Seduction, +1 Religion)
E - I was resorting controlling people.  Had my own clique of outcasts. (+1 CHA, +2 Persuasion)

---

I was only 15 when I ran away, and...
A - I started robbing houses:  rich people only.  I was fed up with their crap. (+1 AGI, +1 Security, +1 Stealth)
B - I hung out with thugs and beat the shit out of people. (+1 STR, +2 Martial Arts)
C - I got a horrible job working fast food, smiling as people fed the man. (+1 CHA, +2 Business)
D - I let people pay me for sex.  I needed the money to survive. (+1 CHA, +2 Seduction)
E - I volunteered for a left-wing candidate. It wasn't *real*, though, you know? (+1 INT, +1 Law, +1 Persuasion)

---

Life went on.  On my 18th birthday...
A - I stole a security uniform. (Start equipped with a security uniform)
B - I bought myself an assault rifle. (Start equipped with an AK-47)
C - I celebrated.  I'd saved a thousand bucks! (Start with $1000)
D - I went out to party and met a judge.  We've been fast friends ever since. (Start with a Liberal Judge recruited as a sleeper)
E - I managed to acquire secret maps of several major buildings downtown. (Start with maps of several downtown sites)

---

For the past few years, I've been...
A - stealing from Corporations.  I know they're still keeping more secrets. (+2 INT, +2 AGI, +2 Disguise, +1 Security, +1 Stealth)
B - a violent criminal.  Nothing can change me, or stand in my way. (+2 AGI, +2 HTH, +2 Rifle, +2 Pistol)
C - taking college courses.  I can see how much the country needs help. (+3 INT, +1 HRT, +2 Science, +1 Teaching, +1 Writing)
D - talking to people, learning how they think.  I have to change minds. (+2 INT, +2 CHA, +2 Persuasion, +1 Science, +1 Religion)
E - writing my manifesto and refining my image.  I'm ready to lead. (+4 CHA, +2 Writing, +1 Law, +1 Leadership)

I like in <cityname>, and it's about to experience real change.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Ascii Kid on November 18, 2008, 05:55:06 am
Thanks for the effort, tho.  I like seeing some of the mechanics of what's going on, once the novelty of the ennie-meanie-miney-mo method wears off.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 18, 2008, 06:00:48 am
Well, most of the effort was in the fact that I actually altered the effects of the choices and created several news one and rebalanced the 'classes' formed by choosing all one letter, and so on and so forth. This version posted here isn't in the game just yet, at least not in a released version. It'll be in the next release whenever that happens.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Jools on November 18, 2008, 10:21:16 am
Yikes. You can start off with 16 Charisma and 4 Persuasion? I know that's a deliberately unbalanced founder, going all the way for recruitment, but that's a heck of a bonus for someone who wants to recruit and lay low...
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Rezan on November 18, 2008, 10:39:09 am
I have ALWAYS wanted to see that "chart" of base stats from creation. For some time I contemplated whether it would be worth it to go through them all with method of elimination, just to make the founder of my choice. Looks great, and as balanced as six hours will permit.

When will this be implemented in a release?
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Earthquake Damage on November 18, 2008, 01:05:59 pm
Yikes. You can start off with 16 Charisma and 4 Persuasion? I know that's a deliberately unbalanced founder, going all the way for recruitment, but that's a heck of a bonus for someone who wants to recruit and lay low...

Go go Gadget High Inquisitor Educator!

Seriously, with that much base Charisma you should be able to, once you max your juice through quasi-safe methods, convert hostages like, um, like something that converts hostages really fast.

I wouldn't recommend defending yourself in court, though.  IIRC Law is linked to Intelligence.  You won't be too shabby, but El Che:  Ace Attorney you ain't.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 18, 2008, 01:41:47 pm
16 Charisma 4 Persuasion is pretty mighty, and I might reduce the default Charisma slightly, but bear in mind the current version AEEEAEEDEE build (and a couple variations) will give you 15 Charisma and 5 Persuasion in the current version. Notably, interrogation is linked to intelligence as well as charisma, and while heart doesn't affect the skill interrogation, it still impacts the process. For a master interrogator in the long term, you might be better off going with EEEDADAECDD for 7 Int, 12 Cha, and a broader set of useful skills, including 6 Persuasion, 2 Science, 2 Religion, 2 Business, 1 Interrogation, and 1 Seduction.

Edit: No current ETA on the next release. :( For a chart of the existing system, see the LCS Wiki:
http://lcs.wikidot.com/questions
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Servant Corps on November 18, 2008, 03:51:34 pm
Quote
Go go Gadget High Inquisitor Educator!

That's it. I'm calling it now.

I'm going to start a "Technical Pacifist" Run in LCS. I will kill nobody. I will torture without mercy, I will maim totally, but I will not kill.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: ChemicalVengence on November 18, 2008, 08:35:31 pm
Once I tried to only use guitars to convert ppl and not kill em.....it worked great until my squad got taken out by a mercenary.......

AR-12 > guitar
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: commondragon on November 18, 2008, 08:46:54 pm
B - my stepmom shot her ex-husband, my dad, with a shotgun.  She got off. (+1 AGI, +2 Shotgun)

Wouldnt that be +2 law?  Its not about learning to use a shotgun, its about learning how one gets away with murder...
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Little on November 18, 2008, 09:54:09 pm
D - I got caught making out, and now I needed be 'cured' of homosexuality. (+1 HRT, +1 Seduction, +1 Religion)


Shouldn't it be 'making out with a guy' or is that too big?
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Earthquake Damage on November 18, 2008, 10:22:55 pm
B - my stepmom shot her ex-husband, my dad, with a shotgun.  She got off. (+1 AGI, +2 Shotgun)

Wouldnt that be +2 law?  Its not about learning to use a shotgun, its about learning how one gets away with murder...

Maybe it's indicative of a family that uses shotguns regularly (for hunting, presumably)?
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: ChemicalVengence on November 18, 2008, 10:52:27 pm
D - I got caught making out, and now I needed be 'cured' of homosexuality. (+1 HRT, +1 Seduction, +1 Religion)


Shouldn't it be 'making out with a guy' or is that too big?
no because what if you start with a female founder? Then making out with a guy would be normal
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 19, 2008, 12:08:26 am
My thinking was that the shotgun question is more indicative of a violent upbringing and the decision by the player to select choices that have guns and people getting shot in them. But mainly it's shotgun skill because that's what it has always been, and it's one of the original Bay 12 Games questions, not one I wrote myself.  :P

Without having gender in the game, the making out line has to be vague. But I also like the punchy way that the outcome comes as a bit of a surprise -- it's a slightly unfair and uncomfortable sentence to read, because important information goes unstated, and you have to realize it after the fact. Its flow is oddly analogous to the wrenching emotional change of gears and sense of injustice inherent in the situation it describes.

Over-analyzing it breaks the effect though.  ::)
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Little on November 19, 2008, 12:47:54 am
Do a few grammer checks, and your good  :)

Even more options would be cool, but meh. You've basically covered everything.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 19, 2008, 04:11:51 am
I think I fixed two grammar issues after posting this, but any issues you notice, you're welcome to post. I won't be offended. :'( Well, maybe if you call me an idiot or something, but that would be random.

More options are always fun. Were you thinking an F category? Or maybe more questions, spreading the gains out over more questions, or even randomly picking some of the questions from a set of possible questions, a la ADOM? Another possibility would be to have multiple possible options for each of the displayed options, and (for example) it randomly picks which of the A-track options to display for this question; that way, you don't always get the same choices to make, and two A builds won't be identical, though they will be similar in overall emphasis. Regardless, if anyone wants to think up more options, that would be cool. One possibility would be a vegan health nut track? A former conservative track, granting wisdom for some other bonuses? I dunno, I'm making this up. :P
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: mainiac on November 19, 2008, 10:40:41 am
I really like the making out line, I think it gives exactly the wrenching effect you shoot for.

IMHO, your founder starting with some wisdom is a bad handicap.  Not much damage it can do and juice gain will probably make it disappear pretty quickly anywho.

I thought up a possible new "birthday presents for me" option.  The founder "stayed up late that night printing the first edition of my underground newspaper." which would give you a free printing press.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Servant Corps on November 19, 2008, 01:23:03 pm
Quote
A former conservative track, granting wisdom for some other bonuses?

Possibly a former Conservative Crime Squad member, disillusioned by the results of Conservatism and deciding instead to undo it in the only way he knows how?

Beniefts could be having some more free sleepers. And the cons would likely be having a criminal track record already, meaning you are already on the run?
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: E. Albright on November 19, 2008, 04:13:25 pm
The problem with the "former conservative" angle is that it's pretty much predicated on a fixed full background, whereas all the other "archetypes" are built up piecemeal. Now, if we can have a "wavering conservative" track ("F" seems appropriate, given LCS's demonstrated Liberal bias  ;)), that might work, and could allow for some serious diversity of skills if you were picking and choosing your founder rather than just holding down one key ("Things were getting really bad when I got sent to military school for a year" [+1 Wis, -1 Heart, +2 Tactics] or somesuch).

Also, I'm not sure someone who just "turned traitor" would necessarily have sleepers. If there was some non-sympathetic pseudomember status like "contact" that could be used to purchase/acquire goods or information from, that'd be one thing. But I can't see former conservative comrad- erm, compatriots working covertly to advance the Liberal agenda.

The idea of such an archetype is definitely worth considering, though.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Servant Corps on November 19, 2008, 04:45:53 pm
Well, the idea is, that if you were a former Conservative, you already has some contacts within society, which would be represented as Sleepers. Maybe there can be a new "sleeper" known as "Conservative Crime Squad Cell" (or something similar to that), that you can only get if you choose the "wavering conservative" track. The Cell cannot join up with the LCS, and cannot advocate liberalism, but they can assist you by leaking important information and sending you goods.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 19, 2008, 04:47:31 pm
Crazy idea, but you could take that military school idea further. >_> You could have an option to enlist in the Army on 18th Birthday. If that were the case, it would mean that for the past few years I've been fighting a war overseas. It may not be Iraq or Afghanistan specifically, since the "immediate present" for LCS is an alternate history United States, but it would be something similar, as the in-game timing is perfect.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Rezan on November 19, 2008, 05:09:02 pm
That does sound interesting. To add to the madness; how about it gives you a bonus to health and "rifle", an army bodyarmor, and a somewhat frightening chance of starting out with a permanent injury? 'twould be a gamble, but to win anything you have to risk something.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: mainiac on November 19, 2008, 06:26:02 pm
How about instead of CSS contacts, the ex-con(servative) founder has contacts among the mercenaries?  Converting to liberalism would probably mean loosing ties with those devoted to conservatism but arms dealers and mercenaries tend not to care about what banner you fight under so long as you've got good money.

Also, if the founder is joining the military, how about doing so under a false age as in "...I lied about my age so I could join the marines.  Really I was sixteen but I needed to get away."

We keep thinking up new archtypes.  Is it possible for there to be too many different archtypes?
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Servant Corps on November 19, 2008, 06:34:06 pm
I suggested the CCS contact because I was seeing how it could be easily implemented within the game, to save Fox time.

How about...you no longer need an Car to drive to the Black Market? Due to your previous contacts with mercs.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: mainiac on November 19, 2008, 06:39:27 pm
There's already merc sleepers in the game, they work at the corporate HQ and can warn you about corporation sieges.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Servant Corps on November 19, 2008, 07:12:33 pm
Quote
There's already merc sleepers in the game, they work at the corporate HQ and can warn you about corporation sieges.

Oh. I didn't know that. Okay, so your idea is okay too.
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Little on November 19, 2008, 07:57:40 pm
Another possibility would be to have multiple possible options for each of the displayed options, and (for example) it randomly picks which of the A-track options to display for this question; that way, you don't always get the same choices to make, and two A builds won't be identical, though they will be similar in overall emphasis. Regardless, if anyone wants to think up more options, that would be cool. One possibility would be a vegan health nut track? A former conservative track, granting wisdom for some other bonuses? I dunno, I'm making this up. :P

The multiple choice thing.

It'd be cool to have options with different effects depending on what you've already chosen. Like, if at 14, 'you broke into lockers and was into rock music' or 'I started a gang, but my best friend sold me out' you could have a military option?
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: R1ck on November 21, 2008, 10:26:43 pm
Some new questions I came up with. They deal in the high school age.

Whenever there was a party in high school I:
A)Picked someone up and slept with them in a bedroom(+2 Seduction, +1 Charisma)
B)Hung out with the crackheads and drunks(+1 Hth, +1 First Aid)
C)Showed off my latest gizmo(+1 Computer, +1 Int)
D)Hosted the shindig(+1 Leadership, +2 Cooking)
E)Got drunk then fought people with knives(+1 Agility, +2 Knife)

The first girl I dated was: 
A)A total prep. Her friends mocked me endlessly(+2 Disguise, +2 Cha, +2 Wis)
B)Plain ugly. I pitied her(+2 Art, +1 Hrt)
C)From a real uptight family. I had to work her to get what I wanted(+2 Interrogation, +1 Seduction)
D)A real jock. We exercised together a lot(+1 Str, +3 Martial Arts)
E)A biker chick(+1 Agility, +3 Improv Weapons)

If a teacher assigned a big project due in a week I:
A) Did it right away. I didn't want to fall behind(+1 Int, +2 Writing)
B)Tried to get in the teachers head to get the most marks(+2 Teaching, +1 Int)
C)Tried to copy from something online(+2 Computer, +1 Disguise)
D)Forced a geek to do it for me(+1 Strength, +1 Martial Arts)
E)Didn't bother and tried to avoid the backlash (+2 Stealth, +1 Hth)

My favorite class in high school was:
A)Nutrition and Cooking(+3 Cooking, +1 Hth)
B)Music (+2 Music, +1 Hrt)
C)Creative Writing (+2 Writing, +1 Int)
D)Law(+2 Law, +2 Persuasion)
E)Spare. I did what I liked (+2 Random skill, +1 Random Attribute)

Of course, these are just rough drafts.


Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: mainiac on November 21, 2008, 10:39:51 pm
The questions are supposed to be traumatic moments from the life of a budding iconclast, not teen drama!  ;D
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: Little on November 22, 2008, 01:32:31 am
The questions are supposed to be traumatic moments from the life of a budding iconclast, not teen drama!  ;D

Indeed!  ;D

Maybe, "My first experience with a revolutionary movement" or something?
Title: Re: New character creation choices (game mechanic spoilers)
Post by: EuchreJack on November 22, 2008, 03:31:51 am
As far as the "gifts to me" question, how about starting out with a car, preferably a sportscar!

In the distant future where buying and selling cars is possible, this would make even more sense.