Bay 12 Games Forum

Other Projects => Curses => Topic started by: Squeegy on November 21, 2008, 10:14:30 pm

Title: Torture
Post by: Squeegy on November 21, 2008, 10:14:30 pm
From the Gulag Archipelago:

1. night - a newly awakened prisoner has reduced judgement
2. persuasion - convincing them that they faster they give in the better they'll be treated it effective
3. foul language - some people have strong aversions to swearing
4. psychological contrast - good cop, bad cop
5. preliminary humiliation - humiliate prisoners before interrogation: strip a woman naked, lock her in a box and have male guard peep in and praise her loudly and while laughing
6. confusion - one female interrogator stripteased in front of a prisoner
7. intimidation - threats, etc.
8. lie - to mother: "If you don't tell us such and such, it's going to be the worse for him. You'll be destroying him completely. Signing this paper is the only way you can save him."(destroy him) forged documents, etc.
9. playing on one's affection - sign this confession, or we'll hunt down and murder/kidnap your loved ones
10. sound effects - stand twenty-five feet away, forced to speak more and more loudly. OR, two interrogators bellow through megaphones into prisoner's ears, "CONFESS, YOU RAT!"
11. tickling - self-explanatory, simple but effective
12. cigarette put out on accused's skin
13. light effects - bright blinding light, no light, strobe light
14. imaginative trick: a prisoner was in the constant state of being LED to interrogation. go to room, go to cell, go to room, go to cell, etc.
15. box - confined space, mind tricks
16. discomfort - sitting on a stool not allowed to move, lean, sleep, etc.
17. divisional pit - a pit for prisoners
18. stand on his/her knees - this can break some people as the feeling of being dominated. one Soviet interrogator pissed on a man's face
19. stand there - just stand there. nothing else. no sleeping, eating, or drinking
20. deprived of water - no water at all
21. sleep deprivation - have someone run in, make noise, beat them, etc. when they nod off
22. assembly line - have multiple interrogators come in in shifts to interrogate
23. punishment cells - ex. room filled with bedbugs, extreme cold
24. locked in an alcove - combined with dripping water on head can cause amnesia and blackouts
25. starvation - no food
26. beatings - a swift kick to naked balls can cause unconsciousness, even bursting eardrums. also solar plexus hits, face punches, etc.
27. fingernail removal
28. strait jacket
29. breaking the prisoner's back

And these were just some of the Soviet Russian's interrogation techniques. Perhaps add a few?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: ChemicalVengence on November 21, 2008, 10:21:21 pm
You forgot the most important Soviet interrogation technique...

JEDI MIND TRICKS!!!

you did put regular old mind tricks but it's rly not the same....
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on November 21, 2008, 10:37:09 pm
1)  This is soviet techniques.  They weren't interested in controlling people's minds, they wanted to extract false confessions for sham trials.  Such confessions would be of no use to the LCS

2) Most of the applicable techniques fall into the broad existing catagories already.

3) The advantage of the current system is that it avoids any needless complication.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Squeegy on November 21, 2008, 10:40:11 pm
Needless complication can be fun! You could upgrade your torture room... select different types of props to use...

Also, confession, mind control, same thing.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on November 21, 2008, 10:42:27 pm
Upgrade your torture room is a good idea.

Confession is not the same as mind control.  If the LCS extracted a false confession from someone and then sent them out to be a sleeper, the first thing their victim would do is talk to the police!  The LCS has to warp their thinking until they have a profound change of opinion, scaring someone into saying what you want doesn't accomplish that.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on November 21, 2008, 10:42:57 pm
Not really Squeegy.

False confessions is good for convicing the American ambassador that the Soviet Union is awesome. But a person who confessed to treason wouldn't go out and actually DIE for you, understand? The LCS needs more refined brainwashing techinques.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Squeegy on November 21, 2008, 10:57:52 pm
But you could do the same things to brainwash them. Well, some of the same. Have someone dress up as a conservative and do it to them.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Cheeetar on November 22, 2008, 01:36:40 am
Needless complication can be fun! You could upgrade your torture room... select different types of props to use...
Pimp my torture room?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: E. Albright on November 22, 2008, 12:55:40 pm
This is a discussion we've had before, and the conclusion that was reached was that it's just not in the spirit of the game to make torture as graphic and detailed as possible. What we have is graphic and detailed enough.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Yanlin on November 22, 2008, 12:56:45 pm
This is a discussion we've had before, and the conclusion that was reached was that it's just not in the spirit of the game to make torture as graphic and detailed as possible. What we have is graphic and detailed enough.

I strongly doubt that text counts as graphic. It's up to you to make a visual image. Then again, you can just as easily pretend you're using rape when you choose the "Expensive props" option.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: beorn080 on November 22, 2008, 02:37:52 pm
This is above all a satire game. Granted the current interrogation isn't very funny, adding excessive detail to it is just going to drive that away.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on November 22, 2008, 03:16:57 pm
Granted the current interrogation isn't very funny,

I for one laughed out loud the first time my interrogator played violent video games with a conservative.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on November 22, 2008, 09:01:12 pm
I find it very funny to see conversions happen so easily and people give up and die for the guy who, only a few days ago, wanted to kill him.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: EuchreJack on November 23, 2008, 12:10:08 am
I find it very funny to see conversions happen so easily and people give up and die for the guy who, only a few days ago, wanted to kill him.

I assure you, when I want dead conservatives, I get dead conservatives, not brainwashed flunkies.  Still, it's funny.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Yanlin on November 24, 2008, 10:59:55 am
At least if your brainwashed "liberals" die, you still sort of killed a conservative.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: EuchreJack on November 24, 2008, 11:29:03 pm
At least if your brainwashed "liberals" die, you still sort of killed a conservative.

Molotov cocktails.  Best weapon in the game.  Sent a brainwashed six-person squad armed with molotovs and crowbars to the cable station.  Best $360 you'll ever spend.  Can even get by with spending less.

EDIT: Oops, seems we're getting off topic.  Better leave now before the bouncer comes.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Little on November 24, 2008, 11:40:17 pm
Will that destroy the station or something?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Yanlin on November 25, 2008, 09:50:58 am
In Soviet crime squad! Police station arson YOU!
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Earthquake Damage on November 26, 2008, 03:27:06 am
Soviet crime squad

That could actually be an awesome addition to the game.  :P
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Yanlin on November 26, 2008, 09:43:34 am
Soviet crime squad

That could actually be an awesome addition to the game.  :P

It needs a sig quote first.

Ahem...

In soviet crime squad, Conservatives kidnap YOU!
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on November 26, 2008, 09:44:36 am
Soviet crime squad

That could actually be an awesome addition to the game.  :P

Still trying. :P
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Kruniac on December 04, 2008, 06:53:13 am
Soviet crime squad

That could actually be an awesome addition to the game.  :P

It needs a sig quote first.

Ahem...

In soviet crime squad, Conservatives kidnap YOU!

Actually, I'm surprised no one has modded the game to MAKE it Conservative Crime Squad. I'm tired of playing as liberals.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 04, 2008, 09:28:08 am
It would take far too long for me to copy and replace LCS with CCC.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on December 04, 2008, 12:35:23 pm
It would take far too long for me to copy and replace LCS with CCC.

Many game functions wouldn't translate well (pot brownies, graffiti, liberal protest, tie die shirts, etc.)  Also, much of the humor stems from the fact that the LCS is completely illogical from the american liberalism mindset.  The most extreme form of liberalism that's still liberal in the US would be the "hippie" movement, i.e. pacifists.  The most extreme type of conservatism you can find is far from pacifistic.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 04, 2008, 12:52:39 pm
Well, the SLA is a real organization, the Nation of Islam and other black organizations have some guns for self-defense, there were lots of left-wing terrorists in South American and Europe during the Cold War, blah, blah, blah. And Paul Bachman, Ron Paul, and Barry Goldwater, all radical conservatives, all semi-pacfisit.

Anyway, the Liberal Crime Squad is called that because it commits crimes, and civil disobidence, by definition, is usually illegal.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on December 04, 2008, 01:16:29 pm
Well, the SLA is a real organization, the Nation of Islam and other black organizations have some guns for self-defense, there were lots of left-wing terrorists in South American and Europe during the Cold War, blah, blah, blah. And Paul Bachman, Ron Paul, and Barry Goldwater, all radical conservatives, all semi-pacfisit.

Anyway, the Liberal Crime Squad is called that because it commits crimes, and civil disobidence, by definition, is usually illegal.

The SLA had some liberal tendencies but it's ideology, such as it was, was not based on mainstream liberalism as much as the LCS.  The Nation of Islam isn't liberal, it's a radical religious and "nationalist" movement, which I think places it on the extreme right.  The LCS is completely liberal, even when they do non liberal things like own guns, they maintain a liberal ideology (supporting gun control.)

Most of the revolutions of the 20th century left are socialist movements, not liberal movements.  Despite what Faux news tells us, liberals are not socialists.  There have been liberal revolutions, but only against authoritarian states or against democratic states engaging in imperial tendencies.  America is pretty good at giving it's people the rights and freedoms that make liberal revolution impossible.

And America firsters like Paul and Goldwater aren't pacifists, not even close.  They're fine with killing and support a strong military (and/or militia.)  They just don't want to fight for the sake of non-Americans.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 04, 2008, 01:30:24 pm
The term 'socialist' is usually confused with 'welfare liberals', but the boundaries between them are a tad blurred. They do believe in 'postive rights' and social justice, which do involve welfare and supporting the poor. The only difference is that socialists hate capitalists and welfare liberals are okay with capitalism, just want to 'fix' its faults, but as I say, the boundaries between the two are blurred...

I stated that Nation of Islam is 'liberal' in that it does support social justice for African-Americans (if not gay marriage or abortion), and I view that as pretty important in liberalism. Not animal rights, which is one thing the LCS fights for.

And I mean Paul and Goldwater are pacifist in the sense they wouldn't commit terrorist activities to accomplish their goals. But then again, few people would...
***
And, er...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Actually, forget it. Let me try a different tact. Like Kruniac, I prefer having more choices and having options to play as the 'other side'. Humor is alright, but this is also a insurgency 'simulation', and it's better to keep the simulation and play it via the CCS when it is being formed after the LCS' strikes (to accurately simulate the CCS' response if it wasn't controlled by the AI). I know it might be impractical, but I prefer to have it the CCS' control structure be different...the CCS is full of uncoordinated sympathizers, who hate the hippies but can't really get roused up to attack as often as the LCS...while the LCS is composed of Elite Liberal terrorists, who are far more powerful than the CCS members...but once you actually find and kill off the terrorists, you win.

Sleepers within the LCS...man, that would be grand.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Kruniac on December 04, 2008, 03:49:12 pm
I would just like to be able to exterminate liberals, sterilize criminals (or just hang them), crank up nuke plants, and do everything the opposite of LCS :)

Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Jools on December 04, 2008, 04:15:16 pm
Feed all your data into the Intel HQ Supercomputer? Submit *yourself* for genetic research? Commit hundreds of crimes in the cause of *promoting* the use of the Death Penalty for even minor offences?

;-P

Something tells me it may not make complete sense by just doing the opposite.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 04, 2008, 04:55:34 pm
Can't be worse than subjecting yourself to 100% Taxation, having no genetics medication whatsoever, and using guns on people to ensure they get banned.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: E. Albright on December 04, 2008, 06:34:26 pm
If you want a model for the "other side", I'd be looking more towards the militia movement, KKK, and Phineas Priesthood as examples of right-wing American terrorism.

And I must concur with comments upthread that liberalism and socialism share no blurred border outside of rightwing propaganda. Liberals are fundamentally pro-capitalist. Socialist are fundamentally proponents of centrally planned economies. The only overlap you'll generally see is on social issues... but even then they only agree on underlying principles, not proposed solutions. If that's enough to be counted as blurring, then many libertarians "blur the line" with socialism too.

And for clarification, Nation of Islam is not even VAGUELY liberal, in any sense. That's like saying, hmm, Al Queda is liberal because they oppose the American occupation of Iraq. Or that the National Socialist German Workers’ Party was liberal because one of their vegetarian leader's first acts on assuming power was outlawing vivisection.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 04, 2008, 06:57:37 pm
Quote
Liberals are fundamentally pro-capitalist. Socialist are fundamentally proponents of centrally planned economies.

Except for Market Socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism). But I think it'd be best if we decide to agree to disagree on this issue rather than continue to clutter this thread. I like seeing a modded version that allows me to play CCS, you don't. Er.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: E. Albright on December 04, 2008, 07:30:00 pm
But I think it'd be best if we decide to agree to disagree on this issue rather than continue to clutter this thread. I like seeing a modded version that allows me to play CCS, you don't. Er.

Actually, I for one never said anything to that effect, and even went so far as to point out a couple of rightwing organizational models to base a CCS on. But I agree, this is drifting far afield from the original topic and should probably find its own thread if discussion is to continue.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on December 04, 2008, 07:57:12 pm
I'm not saying CCS can't be done either, I'm just saying it can't be something you hack together quickly.  LCS was done first because it's easier to do the LCS humor because of the inherant absurdity.  With the CCS you need to very carefully plan out how you are going to change the game to highlight the absurdity and keep the game from getting too dark in tone.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 04, 2008, 10:43:01 pm
Quote
Actually, I for one never said anything to that effect

Oh. Er. You see...um...

I often times confuse mainaic and E. Albright...as the same exact person. So when you were responding, I thought you were mainaic, and responded accordingly.

I apologize. My bad. I haven't the foggiest idea why I think you guys are so similar.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Kruniac on December 05, 2008, 06:35:39 am
I'm not saying CCS can't be done either, I'm just saying it can't be something you hack together quickly.  LCS was done first because it's easier to do the LCS humor because of the inherant absurdity.  With the CCS you need to very carefully plan out how you are going to change the game to highlight the absurdity and keep the game from getting too dark in tone.

Nothing wrong with that. I would like a dark tone to the game. I mean, I liberate child workers only to prostitute them out to fund my terrorist organization.

...What can be more dark than that?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 05, 2008, 07:05:24 am
Oh... I meant to disable prostitution for people under 13.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Kruniac on December 05, 2008, 08:25:21 am
Oh... I meant to disable prostitution for people under 13.

Taking away my biggest moneymaker. For shame!
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Earthquake Damage on December 05, 2008, 10:05:10 am
Oh... I meant to disable prostitution for people under 13.

I wouldn't outright disable it.  I would rather it be far less lucrative (not that prostitution is all that lucrative compared to, say, selling t-shirts or hacking) for fairly obvious reasons.  It should also frequently drawing police attention (thus a chase/arrest ensues).  Since prostitution nukes your juice IIRC, the child is liable to rat you out.  Thus a racketeering charge plus whatever charge applies to someone involved in child prostitution.

The result:  You discourage using child workers as prostitutes via realistic constraints rather than banning it "because I don't want players doing it" or whatever.

...

Speaking of child workers, shouldn't exceptionally young liberals draw attention if they're seen driving a car?  Maybe add a chance, with likelihood linked to age, of getting chased by the cops if you have a youngster driving a car.

Also, if the Bar & Grill is more bar than grill (i.e. you have to be 21 to enter), and I don't know that it is, maybe the CCS should be suspicious of young folks wandering about their establishment.  Not that there's much reason to be sneaking around there in the first place.  Really, you're either there to kill or recruit.  There's no loot or anything.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Rezan on December 05, 2008, 10:16:34 am
But isn't being able to do as you want with your own body part of the Liberal Agenda? If these 13 year olds want to sell their bodies for money they don't even get; then it's their choice, according to liberal policy. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it seems fairly liberal.

Also; if someone wanted to "mess" with this game and use it for pedophile purposes or whatever; they have full access to the source-code. I don't see the harm it does. Personally I never even thought of using 'em for prostitution. Too busy sending them into Conservative Lairs with molotovs. They rarely come back, for some reason..
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on December 05, 2008, 10:34:52 am
Prostitution is a surrender to the economic domination of conservative wealth, ceeding the sanctity of your body's for a capitalist wage.  Hence the juice loss, it's unliberal activity which liberals only do when forced into it.  Child prostitution is even less liberal because it infringes on the liberal principle of child protection.  It's so unliberal that I don't think it should be allowed.  Srlsly, where's the lols in it?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Earthquake Damage on December 05, 2008, 10:38:11 am
Too busy sending them into Conservative Lairs with molotovs. They rarely come back, for some reason..

Pfft.  Children have high HRT, so I prefer to have them selling art and playing music on the streets for moolah.  My action teams consist of dancers and athletes with swords and occasionally guns.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Kruniac on December 05, 2008, 11:55:31 am
Prostitution is a surrender to the economic domination of conservative wealth, ceeding the sanctity of your body's for a capitalist wage.  Hence the juice loss, it's unliberal activity which liberals only do when forced into it.  Child prostitution is even less liberal because it infringes on the liberal principle of child protection.  It's so unliberal that I don't think it should be allowed.  Srlsly, where's the lols in it?

The lols come from the simple fact that you liberate the poor masses... only to sell them on the street. I find that VERY funny.

Its no worse than beating someone until they become brainwashed, then forcing them to charge into a police station to mow down the cops.

Its certainly no worse than half of the things you can do in this game.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Rezan on December 05, 2008, 11:59:28 am
Indeed Kruniac; not to mention that technically, as long they're not "Enlightened", they have a choice to leave. It is kind of crazy, but so is everything else the LCS does.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 05, 2008, 12:59:23 pm
I concur. Same with the usual fundrasing techinque of liberating Conservative sweatshop workers only to put them to work...in Liberal sweatshops.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Kruniac on December 05, 2008, 02:40:59 pm
"Heres 50$ worth of props, and a book to take home with you."

"GREAT!"

"Heres a 9mm, now go with these other College Students and charge the Police Station with no regard for bullets."

"SWELL!"
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Yanlin on December 05, 2008, 02:52:36 pm
"Here's a bondage gear suit and $100 worth of props. Have fun."

"AWESOME!"
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: beorn080 on December 05, 2008, 03:14:13 pm
"Here's a bondage gear suit and $100 worth of props. Have fun."

"AWESOME!"
Wait, you wouldn't do that if it wasn't for the LCS?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 05, 2008, 05:31:02 pm
It's not a matter of 13-year-olds choosing to sell their body on the street. It's a matter of forcing prepubescent 7-year-olds to do so. If you want to liberate the poor masses and sell them on the street, you can still do that with normal sweatshop workers. I don't intend to ever add an option to rape hostages into the game, and forcing children into sex slavery is similar. There's nothing even remotely Liberal about it, and even the LCS would know that.

Realistically, enslaving prepubescent children into prostitution would not merely get the LCS in trouble with the law, it would utterly destroy its Liberal credibility and pretty much ruin your chances to win the game by any measure. LCS is extremely lenient with child characters. I seriously debated making them unrecruitable at one time, since I couldn't see a use for them that makes sense, but decided against it.

As it stands, if you want to strap an AK-47 to a kid's chest and send them into combat like an Ivory Coast warlord, you can. It's ridiculous and out of theme, but you can. The only catch is that they can't drop pickup lines or engage in prostitution. Once they're teenagers, that rule is waived.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Rezan on December 05, 2008, 05:35:43 pm
Wait, there are actual children younger than 13 in the game? I don't think I've even seen them. o,O I guess they don't hang out where I do. =[
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 05, 2008, 05:41:17 pm
They spawn as child workers in polluting factories when labor laws are C+, or as a very rare spawn at C.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Earthquake Damage on December 05, 2008, 06:14:18 pm
I haven't tried it, but can we prostitute guard dogs, genetic monsters, and tanks?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 05, 2008, 08:36:43 pm
I didn't put any restrictions other than "no skill gain" on guard dogs and genetic monsters (you still can't recruit tanks). I will probably give them a suitably short lifespan though, and have them either put down or adopted if they get arrested by the police. At the moment, I'm still wavering between adding more restrictions (no weapons, no activities, special recruitment text, special attacks only) or removing the skill gain restriction and hand-waiving everything similar to Brian from Family Guy.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: EuchreJack on December 05, 2008, 09:48:44 pm
I kinda want to see dogs and monsters be fully-functioning squad members, complete with pick-up lines.  Of course, they're lifespan shouldn't exceed 20 years, so that limits their usefulness in the long term.

Also, they should bite instead of punch in unarmed combat.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: beorn080 on December 05, 2008, 09:53:57 pm
Crazy idea: Instead of either fully functional or nonfunctional, why not go halfway. Dogs and mutants can equip anything but not always use them in lieu of their unarmed attack. However they are innately skilled with weapons when the do fire, resulting in good damage every time. Flavor text for Guard Dog using a gun, "Guard dog accidentally pulls the trigger of the shotgun, blowing his former master's head off." Not sure of the mutants flavor text though.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Earthquake Damage on December 05, 2008, 09:56:34 pm
Fun fact:  In the current version, dogs and monsters live forever.  They will not eventually die of old age.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Squeegy on December 05, 2008, 10:39:58 pm
or removing the skill gain restriction and hand-waiving everything similar to Brian from Family Guy.

This. Remember that Brian can still drop pickup lines and engage in prostitution.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 05, 2008, 11:40:22 pm
Dog says:
Bark bark bark!

Radio Personality says:
How cute! Can I keep you?

Radio Personality and Dog makes plans for a date tonight.
***
Dog has a hot date with a Radio Personality.

Dog leads Radio Personality into a trap and ambush the Conservative scum!
Radio Personality reveals his secret weapon: Animal Control.
Animal Control has executed Dog for his Liberal beliefs.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Squeegy on December 05, 2008, 11:50:23 pm
Dog says:
Woof woof! *pant*

Radio Personality says:
How cute! Can I keep you?

Radio Personality and Dog make plans for tonight.
***
Dog has a hot date with a Radio Personality.

Dog leads Radio Personality to the safe house!
Radio Personality manages to get away.
Dog has failed the Liberal Crime squad...


Fix'd.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Kruniac on December 06, 2008, 10:57:01 am
It's not a matter of 13-year-olds choosing to sell their body on the street. It's a matter of forcing prepubescent 7-year-olds to do so. If you want to liberate the poor masses and sell them on the street, you can still do that with normal sweatshop workers. I don't intend to ever add an option to rape hostages into the game, and forcing children into sex slavery is similar. There's nothing even remotely Liberal about it, and even the LCS would know that.

Realistically, enslaving prepubescent children into prostitution would not merely get the LCS in trouble with the law, it would utterly destroy its Liberal credibility and pretty much ruin your chances to win the game by any measure. LCS is extremely lenient with child characters. I seriously debated making them unrecruitable at one time, since I couldn't see a use for them that makes sense, but decided against it.

As it stands, if you want to strap an AK-47 to a kid's chest and send them into combat like an Ivory Coast warlord, you can. It's ridiculous and out of theme, but you can. The only catch is that they can't drop pickup lines or engage in prostitution. Once they're teenagers, that rule is waived.

7 year olds, 13 year olds, and 40 year olds all have the exact same say in the matter of whoring themselves - they dont. Age is irrelevant.

Also, you probably shouldnt ever use realism as an example to add/remove something in this particular game. It isnt realistic. Its over the top, and very hilarious.

I guess it really doesnt matter. The next update cant be so damned important that its worth giving up my 12 child whores for. Now if only they would stop getting busted!
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Rezan on December 06, 2008, 01:20:52 pm
I think this has gone somewhat off topic...

How about the possibility of upgrading your holding-cells in a facility, or placing a guard? I most certainly wouldn't mind shelling out a few thousand to keep my hostages/"to-be-enlightened" from escaping.

Also; wouldn't it be normal for interrogators to heal their captives if they get injured? The first-aid skill could be implemented there. It'd limit how much you could abuse your captive without them dying. Perhaps you could set whoever in the interrogation team on the particular person has the highest first aid skill to do the patching up?

As far as I know, you can't really release a hostage without confronting conservatives, either... It would be nice to be able to release your hostage in a way that didn't lead to violence or assaults on your safehouse. Hell; I'd just like to be able to ditch them before I leave sites.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Guy Montag on December 06, 2008, 02:36:32 pm
I like the upgraded holding cells idea. Should be an improvement you can purchase like everything else for the factory-type strongholds. It would be reasonable for the police to dismantle it like they do with every other improvement whenever you surrender.

Also, in a related idea, how about an escape tunnel improvement that would let a squad of 6 or so escape during a prolonged police siege? It could be blocked off or dismantled in the same way your generators and tank traps are destroyed in prolonged seiges, but it would let at least your founder and some other folks the chance to escape unnoticed. I don't think an entire army of 100 hippies could beable to avoid all police seiges, so it would be implied only a few could escape without it being obvious.

I mean, your recently Enlightened /former prisoner can escape to go be a sleeper during a police seige unnoticed with the current version, why not allow a handful of other liberals past the seige?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on December 06, 2008, 03:16:16 pm
That would completely eliminate sieges as a concern.  Set up two locations with siege tunnels and keep nobody there but you're most wanted and strictly legal fundraisers.  The most wanted will attract sieges but can duck out to the other location whenever the cops show while the legal fundraisers can't be touched.  Money is pretty easy to get through legal fundraising, so you would almost certainly be able to fund it with the on site legal fundraisers.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Rezan on December 06, 2008, 03:21:47 pm
I concur, an escape route would be a good addition. however as Mainiac commented, it would make things a bit easy. How about a chance of the tunnel collapsing on you; or Conservatives waiting for you by the exit? Hell, the Conservative Scumbags might have boobytrapped it.

On another sidenote: I always get annoyed when I have several liberal squads armed to the teeth, capable of taking down squads of more than 9 soldiers at once with barely taking a scratch think entering a siege is "too dangerous". It'd be nice to be able to clear out the siege from the outside if you have enough people to do it. This might be a little difficult and impractical to implement though; as obviously there would be dozens upon dozens of men outside of the safehouse. Perhaps sabotage would be a better idea? Taking out communications/vehicles/supplies/weapons?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on December 06, 2008, 03:32:58 pm
Logically, it should be easier to break the siege from the outside.  All the guns are facing inwards while all the best targets can be hit from the outside.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Rezan on December 06, 2008, 04:12:49 pm
Indeed, but what happens when you shoot five SWAT members? It's your group of 6 versus another 40, plus snipers... Though you could likely take out the snipers first; how would you deal with the 40 SWAT members/soldiers all shooting at you at once? What about the tanks?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 06, 2008, 04:49:42 pm
A little foreshadowing of a LCS project I was thinking of:

I was planning of the idea of allowing active LCS members to negogiate with other Organizations, such as the Stalinists, the AM Media, the Intelligence Community, even the Police (but not the CCS, no way). In return for making some 'concessions' (which will swing some issues to Conservative), these organizations will decide to not siege you. Negogations is only useful to get yourself out of a pickle, they should be the last resort.

However, I don't know how handle negogations in the MIDDLE of a siege. If there could be a way to get an organization that is sieging you to stand down, that would be very useful. I don't know what sort of concessions such an organization would desire, and how to program in the siege being called off.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: E. Albright on December 06, 2008, 05:26:50 pm
I mean, your recently Enlightened /former prisoner can escape to go be a sleeper during a police seige unnoticed with the current version, why not allow a handful of other liberals past the seige?

I'm pretty sure they're not escaping unnoticed, though. They're kidnapping victims escaping crying into the arms of their saviors, the police.

Now, what might be interesting would be to have Liberals with totally clean records (i.e., who've not even been charged with a crime) and no history of public involvement with the LCS (i.e., they've just sat in the safehouse) to try to run out crying to be "rescued", with their chances of successfully turning into a sleeper based on Persuasion, "class", and how long it's been since they were doing "normal" things full-time instead of being involved with the LCS (i.e., if they joined a month ago, it'll be easier to sell a kidnapping story than if they've been "underground" for years). If they fail to convince the police, they get charged with falsifying a police report at a bare minimum... they could probably get hit as accessory to any crimes carried out during the siege.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on December 07, 2008, 01:06:52 am
Selective surrendering would be nice.  Someone without any crimes simply goes out to the police and refuses to talk.  They'll be held and questioned, but one 48 hours are up, they have to be charged with something or released.

Is the odds of someone breaking and talking to the police related to the severity of the crimes?  A hippie charged with spraying graffiti shouldn't be nearly as likely to break as a hippie charged with murder.  The cops can't offer much of a threat/plea bargin for a minor crime.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Little on December 07, 2008, 01:22:09 am
On the note of selective surrendering, it should also be possible for Liberals that have crimes on their records to walk out. They would just get grilled as normal, I guess. Maybe charged with association or something?

Also, for those who walk out with no crimes on their records, in more Conservative settings, maybe they will be charged with something? Also, in more Conservative settings, maybe if their wisdom is high enough(boosted by the conservative interogation) and/or they get paid a sum of money, they return to the LCS as sleepers for the Conservatives?
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: mainiac on December 07, 2008, 01:28:26 am
Yeah, that would be a good time for the cops to get a criminal informant in your ranks.

I think the odds of the cops fabricating a case against someone could be linked rather nicely to how tightly regulated the cops are.
Title: Re: Torture
Post by: Servant Corps on December 10, 2008, 10:20:25 am
Quote
As it stands, if you want to strap an AK-47 to a kid's chest and send them into combat like an Ivory Coast warlord, you can.

Erm.

Johnatan S. Fox, did you read Anticheese' LP thread of LCS? During one playthrough, he managed to recruit child workers, and gave them swords (they were very good at using it, and eventually became the best LCS troops, killing Conservatives quickly). It seems it would be more effective to strap a katana to a kid's chest than an AK-47...gameplay-wise, of course.