I just finished my first fortress, and as is guaranteed, I lost. I had a great deal of fun and really loved the process. The downfall was a series of chain tantrums, insanities, suicides and berserks all set off when a couple of soldiers died during a goblin raid. The raid finished nicely but once the dwarves starting rampaging the corpses, miasma, dead pets and dead people was just too much.LOL this is why you never allow dwarfs to socialize.
My thought is that in that situation some people will just give up and leave. Rather then having a chain reaction of death and despair some of your depressed dwarves would simply head back to the mountainhome. Leave insanity and berserking for those that are wickedly insane, stolen children, dead spouses and the like.
It seems that it could help self regulate the system by preventing that tipping point. Rather then considering it a closed system that only grows with the addition of migrants and shrinks with death, allow a fluid migration to happen depending on conditions. Rent too high? Move back to the mountainhome. Constant death? Move in with the humans. It would also be interesting to see folks go on pilgrimages/adventures/vacations, could come back with unique skills, items, or stories.
C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
There has been talk about having non-dwarven migrants, but Toady said they were being treated like pets. I don't really see the bug but apparently it's still in the works. What would happen is that you'd specifically send out your Liason for a specific reason. Hence the options. You can go for massive numbers with option A, try to round out your skillset with Option B, or go for the mystery box with Option C.
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
There has been talk about having non-dwarven migrants, but Toady said they were being treated like pets. I don't really see the bug but apparently it's still in the works. What would happen is that you'd specifically send out your Liason for a specific reason. Hence the options. You can go for massive numbers with option A, try to round out your skillset with Option B, or go for the mystery box with Option C.
MYSTERY BOX! MYSTERY BOX!
Dwarven fort denying potentially useful human workers/warriors simply on the basis that they are neither refugees nor human? That's a bit . . . stupid. Sorry, but it is.C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
There has been talk about having non-dwarven migrants, but Toady said they were being treated like pets. I don't really see the bug but apparently it's still in the works. What would happen is that you'd specifically send out your Liason for a specific reason. Hence the options. You can go for massive numbers with option A, try to round out your skillset with Option B, or go for the mystery box with Option C.
MYSTERY BOX! MYSTERY BOX!
C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
Dwarven fort denying potentially useful human workers/warriors simply on the basis that they are neither refugees nor human? That's a bit . . . stupid. Sorry, but it is.I'd agree with you, except for all the times it, ya know, actually happened in history
That doesn't mean refugees should be the only allowable non-dwarf immigrants in any game at any time.Dwarven fort denying potentially useful human workers/warriors simply on the basis that they are neither refugees nor human? That's a bit . . . stupid. Sorry, but it is.I'd agree with you, except for all the times it, ya know, actually happened in history
Dwarven fort denying potentially useful human workers/warriors simply on the basis that they are neither refugees nor human? That's a bit . . . stupid. Sorry, but it is.
That doesn't mean refugees should be the only allowable non-dwarf immigrants in any game at any time.
We should not have arbitrary restrictions 100% of the time just because there were a few times in history supporting the restriction.
That is a racism-based argument. And again, it doesn't mean refugees should be the only non-dwarves to ever immigrate to your fort. And no one ever said "no questions asked"- if you're at war with the guy's home civ, duh, of course he's not coming in. But if dwarves have a peaceful relationship with all nearby human civs, there's no reason why he shouldn't be allowed.Dwarven fort denying potentially useful human workers/warriors simply on the basis that they are neither refugees nor human? That's a bit . . . stupid. Sorry, but it is.
Dwarves acting like robots who gladly accept members of other species into their fort without any questions asked because they provide +2 production is the stupid stance
Not to mention how stupid it would be to make that trip on a flimsy hope to begin with. Refugees are the only ones that make any kind of real world sense
Tells me you never want non-refugee, non-dwarf migrants to even be possible, which is unfair.C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
I think you should be able to select if you want them to emigrate or not, otherwise some fortresses (such as YOURS) will empty rather quickly. :D
I know you're trying to make a point, Pilsu, but I'm sure you can do so in a much less offensive way.
There's no way anyone sane would ever try something that stupid. You're just gonna end up starving to death in the wilderness. The average person would only ever try if they were desperate, IE refugees. Or pervertsNot really. How many foreign immigrants come into America a day? How many go into other countries like those in Europe? How often did it happen a hundred years ago? Two hundred? A thousand?
Humans may not be dwarves, but they look a lot like them. Seeing one dieing of hunger and thirst (which is not pretty, let me tell you) would probably move at least some dwarves to let him in.
Roll out the RNG at the beginning, and set a racism variable for each civ. Totally.That seems a bit restrictive on the player.
Not if it can later be modified by events happening in fortress:Roll out the RNG at the beginning, and set a racism variable for each civ. Totally.That seems a bit restrictive on the player.
A husband being killed by humans would cause a dwarf who was very open-minded and friendly towards humans to now crave their blood more that the worst rendeck you had! And she will hate elves, too, just for looking like humans. And she will not care that those were human bandits, she will hate all human civilizations.That's a bit extreme. That would probably only happen if the dwarf wasn't open-minded in most situations, but didn't start out racist.
That's a bit extreme. That would probably only happen if the dwarf wasn't open-minded in most situations, but didn't start out racist.Keep in mind that the proposed reaction is specific to one dwarf out of the whole fortress. I don't know how familial ties work in Dwarf societies, but for a society where family is everything, death of a husband is the only thing that would matter, open-mindness be damned!
But it wouldn't result in racism if they were more open-minded. A need for revenge against that particular human, yes, but not a vendetta against the whole race.That's a bit extreme. That would probably only happen if the dwarf wasn't open-minded in most situations, but didn't start out racist.Keep in mind that the proposed reaction is specific to one dwarf out of the whole fortress. I don't know how familial ties work in Dwarf societies, but for a society where family is everything, death of a husband is the only thing that would matter, open-mindness be damned!
Looking at this:Tells me you never want non-refugee, non-dwarf migrants to even be possible, which is unfair.C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
You may want to look more closely at those quotes. Specifically, who said what. Also, way past that point in this discussion, which you would know if you actually read this whole thread. People don't like it when people post without reading the thread.
Looking at this:Tells me you never want non-refugee, non-dwarf migrants to even be possible, which is unfair.C) Non-dwarven immigrants (maybe a human woodsman or an elven archer)
It's a dwarven fort, you have to be a moron to expect them to just let you waltz in when you show up
Refugees, sure
Oh shut up, man. praguepride was implying that there would be strings attached. Don't get your shirt in a such a twist. You're just being an ass.
#1. Could a human or an elf ever be made comfortable in what amounts to a cave?