Bay 12 Games Forum
Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: Myroc on May 08, 2009, 10:44:57 am
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I have played a good deal of MMORPGs over the years. Yet i have found none that really embodies the "Role-playing" aspect of it. Can anyone recommend one?
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The best online roleplaying experience I had was playing Neverwinter Nights. The game allows for people to DM to make a truly interactive story environment. The problem is finding the diamond in the rough - there are a lot of servers and a lot of them aren't great. I haven't played NWN2 online much, but I assume that there is a decent roleplaying community to be found there too.
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The only problem with NWN is that i do not have the expansions, and i do not have intentions of buying them, which limits me to about 3% of the servers.
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I would think your best bet would be a MUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD), but I think the good ones are a dying breed.
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Some Ultima Online free shards theoretically enforce roleplay (some to the point of being selective about who can register), although how that looks in practice, I do not know.
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MUDs like always, and UO shards as mentioned. As for actual modern mmos, you can try City of Heroes in the unofficial roleplay server and join one of the roleplay supergroups.
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I would think your best bet would be a MUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD), but I think the good ones are a dying breed.
Thirded. If you're mostly after roleplay, even consider a MUSH.
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Hm....I can't think of any to be honest...but perhaps you should ask about it on this forum:
http://www.onrpg.com/boards/
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The only problem with NWN is that i do not have the expansions, and i do not have intentions of buying them, which limits me to about 3% of the servers.
I played on Dasaria 2 (http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Nwn2gameworlds.Detail&id=20) for a while. It's one of the best NWN 2 servers out there (and very role-play heavy). It doesn't require any expansions at all - just a single file download for content. You can get NWN 2 on ebay for under $20.
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There's a MUD called Armageddon that's seriously roleplay heavy, and has a pretty unique gameworld. Not for the faint of heart though, the roleplayers are so hardcore they'd scare me into submission.
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Oh yea, you'll want to stick with Mu*s.
I've owned on but had step down being head wiz. I couldn't play my own game.
It isn't dying out, there always new muds and mu*s being listed on mudconnect.
I would stay away from those which have have little autominuous creature, and go with one that are that are for player and player interaction.
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Armageddon MUD (http://www.armageddon.org) is the best. They're newbie friendly and will love you just for trying to get into the game.
Plenty of hacking and slashing and backstabbing, and around 50-80% of the world has been created by player action, including one city that was conquered by an opponent player city-state, had player rebels, spies, and mindbenders, then gained freedom thanks to players.
So, yeah, it's awesome. It is extremely hardcore, though. Learning curve is steeper than DF. It's got even more depth than DF, IMHO, and well worth it.
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I've heard of the place. It theme wasn't was for me though. Very good, but the internal politics of the place, I heard can be dejecting from the rp.
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I've heard of the place. It them wasn't was for me though. Very good, but the internal politics of the place, I heard can be dejecting from the rp.
What, Armageddon? I've been playing it for a while and I don't see much politics. Heh, the politics are as annoying as DF, though. Always some noble trying to kill another and some other one making ridiculous demands. If you stay as the lowly unranked soldier who avoids attention, like I did, you should be perfectly happy and it is fun playing as a lowly soldier.
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I was on a great very small b5 mu*, there were only 45 regular members.
It was great to my character as a street erchin, then he worked his way up to be a legit power source in gaming universe.
Great memories...
I had one character a high action martial theme place, start out as a smart ass orphan hero type, he became a responsible teacher and respectable hero. I had forth general students. My students students students, teaching new students. It was so cool, to sit in an watch the rp, as I can my idea being morphed from person to person. Great game. I literally cried when he died though...
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I actually was intrigued by the description of Armageddon and just created a character. During creation though, I was put off by the fact that my character has to be approved. I just sort of pumped a random character out. Also, magic-users have to be approved?
I'll give the MUD one shot, and if my character is refused, then I won't bother further with the MUD.
On the topic of MUDs, there are other good ones out there. I used to play Towers of Jadri, but I have no idea what happened to it (I think it finally died). There is also 'The Inquisition', which also died, but was resurrected.
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I actually was intrigued by the description of Armageddon and just created a character. During creation though, I was put off by the fact that my character has to be approved. I just sort of pumped a random character out. Also, magic-users have to be approved?
I'll give the MUD one shot, and if my character is refused, then I won't bother further with the MUD.
On the topic of MUDs, there are other good ones out there. I used to play Towers of Jadri, but I have no idea what happened to it (I think it finally died). There is also 'The Inquisition', which also died, but was resurrected.
Approving is a fairly easy process, mainly it's to make sure you don't make any major mistakes like describing clothing or actions on your character. For your first few characters they are likely to correct any minor mistakes rather than scrap the whole thing. Magic is restricted to players with karma along with a few other races/classes generally restricted things are because they are either game breaking (e.g. sorcerers, half-giants) if played twinkishly or otherwise hard to roleplay properly (e.g. Mantis and halflings) Karmas awarded by staff members if they see you playing well. Also my advice is to start in either Tuluk or Allanak, and the phrase "I'm new to town." along with some fairly terrible emoting will be almost universally understood as I'm a newbie please help me!
Other than that if you start in Allanak my advice is to join the Byn, all you'll need to do is set aside 300 sid buy some weapons and armour then hang around until you spot someone in a brown military aba. The Byn is almost a newbie boot camp and unless you get unlucky by the time your first character dies you'll be a whole lot more knowledgeable about the game.
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Oh yea, you'll want to stick with Mu*s.
Yeah, perhaps that is the way to go, if you would like to RP in MMORPGs.
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I actually was intrigued by the description of Armageddon and just created a character. During creation though, I was put off by the fact that my character has to be approved. I just sort of pumped a random character out. Also, magic-users have to be approved?
I'll give the MUD one shot, and if my character is refused, then I won't bother further with the MUD.
On the topic of MUDs, there are other good ones out there. I used to play Towers of Jadri, but I have no idea what happened to it (I think it finally died). There is also 'The Inquisition', which also died, but was resurrected.
Approving is a fairly easy process, mainly it's to make sure you don't make any major mistakes like describing clothing or actions on your character. For your first few characters they are likely to correct any minor mistakes rather than scrap the whole thing. Magic is restricted to players with karma along with a few other races/classes generally restricted things are because they are either game breaking (e.g. sorcerers, half-giants) if played twinkishly or otherwise hard to roleplay properly (e.g. Mantis and halflings) Karmas awarded by staff members if they see you playing well. Also my advice is to start in either Tuluk or Allanak, and the phrase "I'm new to town." along with some fairly terrible emoting will be almost universally understood as I'm a newbie please help me!
Other than that if you start in Allanak my advice is to join the Byn, all you'll need to do is set aside 300 sid buy some weapons and armour then hang around until you spot someone in a brown military aba. The Byn is almost a newbie boot camp and unless you get unlucky by the time your first character dies you'll be a whole lot more knowledgeable about the game.
This is all pretty much true. Unless your character is really wack, they'll approve it. I never had a character blocked, although my first character was modified because I said he looked alert, which wouldn't translate to a dead guy.
If you can't get the money, two great places to go are north and south of out Allanak. Just walk out the north or south gate and go straight. You'll know you're there when you get there.
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I actually was intrigued by the description of Armageddon and just created a character. During creation though, I was put off by the fact that my character has to be approved. I just sort of pumped a random character out. Also, magic-users have to be approved?
Well, I did say it was quite hardcore :P Yeah, do what thatguyyaknow said. The Byn is an awesome clan for newbie warrior types. They teach you how to survive and get used to stuff and all.
Magic is extremely powerful in the game, though, so only experienced players are allowed to make magickers. Also, they tend to be feared and hated, so they'd end up killed or find it hard to get a job.. which is not fun for new players.
I literally cried when he died though...
That's what I love about heavy RP MUDs. It's less of a 'video game' and more like a story that pulls you in. Hah, stopped playing most lighter games after I started getting into RPIs.
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North and south? I've never mucked around much outside the cities but I always went east or west, east to the salt flats or west to the obsidian fields.
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The fun stuff is straight north and straight south.
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I used to play Cybersphere. That game was roleplay enforced. If you died you were dead (unless you had a clone and if you had a clone you couldn't remember who killed you.
It was a futureristic post apoc MUD, but only seemed to have 15 players or so.
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I literally cried when he died though...
That's what I love about heavy RP MUDs. It's less of a 'video game' and more like a story that pulls you in. Hah, stopped playing most lighter games after I started getting into RPIs.
Oh yea. I was playing as Kyle Terry Morance every day for several hours for three years. (Approximately nine years IC.) I really grew attached to him. When he died he was on his way to being that old wise teacher you see in movie cliches. He helped saved the world 4 times, and principle savior once. He has an artificial right ulna, (the upper arm bone), his left hand wound missing several fingers, his right hand was chopped off, eaten the bones given back as a necklace.
He became the strongest human (not by much but just enough), one of his student became evil. Kyle was lost in his new found power, and killed one of his arch nemesis, and almost became corrupted by this power...
Kyle had to take on Rush, the second strongest human, who was becoming increasingly more psychotic. We were fighting over this ocean, our power aura were causing this huge world pool, and the blind bastard managed to stun me, and get the killing blow...
Great fight. Great rp. Rushs' player and by then were good friends. We were both fighting to win, but were just having fun with it, laughing and complementing each other. We were working together to make the fight as cinematic as possible to. You rarely gets scenes like that.
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Other than Neverwinter Nights 1&2 MUDs ect:
Lord of the rings online
Landroval server (RP)
I will not say that everyone role-plays, but having played at least the trial of nearly every major mmo from Ultima Online on*, I can say that LOTRO still has the most RPers and active RP guilds of the subscription type.
*(WoW, WAR, EVE, SWG, AO, D&DO, AOC, UO and LOTRO)
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Puzzle Pirates is full of roleplayers.
EVERYONE talks in character, and most people act in character.
You might think this is just because everyone likes talking like a pirate, and you'd be right.
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Arr. 'Tis be fun ta be talkin' like 'dis on 'de seven seas.
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Illarion, a German-based billingual MMO, is the only one I have found that REQUIRES constant roleplay. I used to play it all the time before getting hooked on Korean grindfests like Mabinogi and Wonderland.
Anyways, the link is here (http://www.illarion.org), and the RP is actually very high quality. Not only is there roleplay and events, but also they recently added quite a bit of new content.
Unsure of what though. I know that after they finished the mage system, they were going to add priests and druids, then eventually bards. Either way, there is plenty to work with.
However, you will need Java, patience, and possibly tolerance towards elitist "see you in tea" roleplayers from across the world.
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It doesn't really matter which MMO or MU* you are taking part in.
Mostly RP is self generating.
What I mean is, if you stay IC, eventually you will attract others who want to RP. This is assuming you don't immigrate to a game with like minded friends.
I play Armageddon at present, I also play City Of Heroes (Role Play Congress member), WAR and LOTRO. I used to play on Grimmworld (Free UO shard) and I did play UO when it was big.
I rarely play on servers that are not RP enforced. Although the degree of enforcement tends to differ from game to game.
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I literally cried when he died though...
That's what I love about heavy RP MUDs. It's less of a 'video game' and more like a story that pulls you in. Hah, stopped playing most lighter games after I started getting into RPIs.
Oh yea. I was playing as Kyle Terry Morance every day for several hours for three years. (Approximately nine years IC.) I really grew attached to him. When he died he was on his way to being that old wise teacher you see in movie cliches. He helped saved the world 4 times, and principle savior once. He has an artificial right ulna, (the upper arm bone), his left hand wound missing several fingers, his right hand was chopped off, eaten the bones given back as a necklace.
He became the strongest human (not by much but just enough), one of his student became evil. Kyle was lost in his new found power, and killed one of his arch nemesis, and almost became corrupted by this power...
Kyle had to take on Rush, the second strongest human, who was becoming increasingly more psychotic. We were fighting over this ocean, our power aura were causing this huge world pool, and the blind bastard managed to stun me, and get the killing blow...
Great fight. Great rp. Rushs' player and by then were good friends. We were both fighting to win, but were just having fun with it, laughing and complementing each other. We were working together to make the fight as cinematic as possible to. You rarely gets scenes like that.
I may have missed it, but which game was that? Heh, I have interesting stories about my Armageddon MUD character, but seeing how there are a few players of the same game here, not going to mention it yet.
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I literally cried when he died though...
That's what I love about heavy RP MUDs. It's less of a 'video game' and more like a story that pulls you in. Hah, stopped playing most lighter games after I started getting into RPIs.
Oh yea. I was playing as Kyle Terry Morance every day for several hours for three years. (Approximately nine years IC.) I really grew attached to him. When he died he was on his way to being that old wise teacher you see in movie cliches. He helped saved the world 4 times, and principle savior once. He has an artificial right ulna, (the upper arm bone), his left hand wound missing several fingers, his right hand was chopped off, eaten the bones given back as a necklace.
He became the strongest human (not by much but just enough), one of his student became evil. Kyle was lost in his new found power, and killed one of his arch nemesis, and almost became corrupted by this power...
Kyle had to take on Rush, the second strongest human, who was becoming increasingly more psychotic. We were fighting over this ocean, our power aura were causing this huge world pool, and the blind bastard managed to stun me, and get the killing blow...
Great fight. Great rp. Rushs' player and by then were good friends. We were both fighting to win, but were just having fun with it, laughing and complementing each other. We were working together to make the fight as cinematic as possible to. You rarely gets scenes like that.
I may have missed it, but which game was that? Heh, I have interesting stories about my Armageddon MUD character, but seeing how there are a few players of the same game here, not going to mention it yet.
That was on Dragonball Z Chronicles. It was never huge, place. About 89 platers, with 40 or so dedicated ones. I started there within the first month that it opened.
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You could try planeshift; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlaneShift
Apparently role playing is enforced to the point where if you want to do a npc quest you have to type: "Hello" and ask it for a quest.
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DAMN IT.
Okay, okay. I had my chance.
I KNEW about it from years back, but since I say with force all the time that I don't play MMOs, I shouldn't even bother mentioning it.
And its true. And its grating. If you can't RP to the criteria of the games standards, they won't have anything to do with you.
THAT AND ITS AN MMORPG.
Do yourself a favor people, and just play MUDs. Hell, I might try playing that there Armageddon game. THAT looks fun and user friendly. PlaneShift is just a unfinished Grindfest where WITH a community of Role Players.
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THAT AND ITS AN MMORPG.
A MMORPG. It starts with a consonant, and is pronounced "muh more pig uh," not "em em oh are pee gee."
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Actually, it's pronounced mumorpeger.
(http://cds046.da1.cdn.themis-media.com/m9z2g8u7/cds/media/global/images/galleries/display/49/49225.jpg?dopvhost=cdn.themis-media.com)
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Meh. "Feb yoo ery."
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Shadows of Isildur is a MUD set in Tolkien's world (operating with permission from the estate) that's similar to Armageddon in terms of roleplay enforcement and character creation. I haven't played it for years though - from what I've heard it's changed a whole lot, under completely new management, etc.
It was fun back then though, still might be, especially if you dig Middle Earth.
http://www.middle-earth.us/
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It doesn't really matter which MMO or MU* you are taking part in.
Mostly RP is self generating.
What I mean is, if you stay IC, eventually you will attract others who want to RP. This is assuming you don't immigrate to a game with like minded friends.
The quality and style is HUUUUUUUUUUUUGELY dependent on where you are though. MUSHes have a very different style of RPing from MUCKs have a very different style from several different types of MUDs.
The key, really, is to surround yourself by people who like the same RP style that you like. Generally low-consequence and mostly player consent based, with little continuity? MUCKs. Playing your character to the freaking hilt and never letting anyone see the player behind the keyboard, even to the point of killing other characters? Some hardcore MUDs. Occasional light social RPing, accompanied by long forum posts, but no consequences at all? Other, social MUDs, also MMOs. Serious, realistic consequences RP that's often slightly consent-based but ultimately unpredictable and dangerous? MUSHes.
If you want plotlines that aren't invented by your fellow players, but instead have some staff support, you want either a MUSH or some of the harder-core MUDs, not MUCKs or MMOs. If letting your character die for the sake of a good story appeals, you want a MUSH, period. If your character's story is the ultimate important thing to you personally, you want a MUCK or a social MUD, where nothing's really out of your control. If you see roleplaying as potentially competitive, you want a hardcore MUD.
These are all pretty heavily enforced by the rules of the game. For reference, you can probably classify hardcore MUDs as ones where your character can actually die permadeath, and social ones where you can't, regardless of PK...so all MMOs I've ever seen were social MUDs.
MUCKs, I've hardly ever seen a MUCK where the staff got involved in the plots running on-game, so it's impossible to enforce any continuity. Which is great if you like to get into plots where you slay your first dragon (or 'slay' your first 'dragon') repeatedly with the same character, or decide that you didn't really like it when that old gray wizard turned your hair pink, so uh, I guess that didn't really happen, or you handwaved fixing it. Great for personal control over your character's fate. If it was meant to be permanent, you probably already agreed with the wizard OOC what would happen ahead of time. Many people insist in some continuity within a given interpersonal relationship, IE that wizard might be upset if your hair wasn't pink next time he saw you, but the player wouldn't care if you turned it off otherwise. Plots on MUCKs are frequently considered somewhat private because of this loose continuity, there's rarely real global stuff. The lack of consequences also mean there's not much need to talk out-of-character before running plots, while also moving some OOC banter into the game itself.
MUSHes, I've NEVER seen a MUSH where the staff -wasn't- involved in the plots running on-game, and the players on MUSHes are pretty hardcore about continuity. They'll talk, and be honestly very surprised if you take the result of some other plot totally unrelated to them and handwave what happened. OOC and IC are enormously regimented. If something horrible happens to your character like getting your arm chopped off, chances are everyone is going to want to hear the story about it, though, and are likely to console you OOC. Some MUSHes are more consent-based than others, but in the majority of them, you -would- know ahead of time that you were going into a dangerous situation, but you would -not- know exactly what would happen. MUSHes frequently make it possible to stay out of harm's way, but that usually means actually staying away from the interesting things going on.
Social MUDs, well, some of them have very elaborate social constructs but they are usually distinct from the actual gameplay. So at the end of the day, not much is going to stand in the way between you and slaying twenty giant rats for their tails. And there is pretty much never any real RP enforcement, you will always run into some people who just don't RP at all, and usually everyone has a different idea of how plots should be run--moreso than other places, I've found. You have a good amount of control over your character's personal story, but it's often hard to get other players onboard because the population is so very diverse.
Hardcore MUDs can be brutal and vicious because the stakes are very high. In some ways they are similar to MUSH atmospheres, except with no system of consent or safety; really, you are always at risk, which in some cases makes the victory sweeter. Often these places have the biggest IC/OOC separation, because people are busy playing the game instead of, well, not playing the game. Not much control over your character's personal story, but anything you can get, you've generally earned and will have to hold onto. Can be the hardest of all the settings to let your imagination wander far afield...in other settings, if you want a strange character idea, people either won't argue with you, or (MUSHes) they'll work all the kinks out in character generation and expect you to play it fairly with social pressure. In hardcore MUDs, expect people to be less credulous, and a concept of 'fair play' is much more important, so bending the rules for a certain character concept can be very hard.
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I honestly hate MUSH/MUCK/MUX. I have programmed in one once before as well, but I still hate them to guts. There are some great RPI muds out there that do not use that codebase.
It's rare to see a MUX* that doesn't use a default database and all the same @set trappings.
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Default database? Man, you're on the wrong places.
MUSHes are crummy to code in, though I have a soft spot because I learned on them. Still most RP MUSHes don't have much emphasis on player building. The best RP MUSH I know, a WW:tA based one, has been running for about fifteen years, 20-100 players at a time, and its database is consistently around 3000-4000 objects (tiny!). Building unnecessary for non-builders. Though I was on a previous Elfquest-based one with about three times the DB size for the same players, because your average player coded or cloned their own tent, ridable mount, occasional bedroom etc.
MUCKs are a totally different codebase altogether, there's almost no similarity TBH. MUSH and MUCK are as similar as, I dunno, Diku and Circle (but not as dissimilar as your standard MudOS). I've codewizzed on a couple MUCKs and written a lot of obscenely complex systems from scratch. Multi-User Forth is such a *calming* language to develop in.
I'd say that on MUSHes, code literacy among the general populace is widespread but not very deep...everyone knows a little, few people do much. Usually very technically light. And a lot of WoD MUSHes use a pretty simple drop-in chargen system and simple utilities for bookkeeping that work quite fine. MUCKs on the other hand, many users are very clueless, but there's a ton of in-game programs to take advantage of all the time.
I guess by 'default database' you might mean a MUCK with the standard ws, wa, morph, tport, whereis, etc. programs. But seriously, playing a MUCK that uses some weird tool instead of 'wa', is like logging into a unix system without 'cat'.
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Myself, I prefer MUShes.
Something that always got me was how interpersonal conflict arose. It was just the unset of clashing of personalities. Always cool to watch. The tiny plots, when ran well, are great. However MUSHes can get broken for a bit, if a character that dones't conform with theme. Muds won't experience that.
I haven't played on to many muxes. The one that I logged the most time was TFOS Mux. Though my most of my characters were rejected because they were to dark. -_-
I had a character with the help of the head wizards, travel from one mush to the next. Three different shadowrun mushes. I went from FreeStare of Cali, to Japan to Seattle. Sorta got the hell of out dodge.
From FreeState to Japan, I got a huge debt from triple c mega corp, that I cant remember the name of. At the time, the yukaza liked me, and I sorta became a corp man in japan until I got tired of being not being my own man and made my way to seattle.
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MUXes got a pretty bad rep in the late 90s, back when they were relatively new. There wasn't much wrong with the codebase (aside from a few slightly-incompatible forks that cleaned up pretty fast), but mostly it was the Hot New Thing that every admin jumped on when they abandoned their old game. The lure of color and new flags and stuff was enough to make a bunch of technical minded people start their own place (when they wouldn't have otherwise), so MUX became the bleeding edge where new cool code was developed that wouldn't work on old MUSHes, but not much actual roleplaying happened because the technical people were not very good headwizards. A lot of very badly run places with borderline abusive admins came out of the early days of MUX, and the rep kinda stuck.
MUX and MUSH merged back into one version (MUSH 4.0 I think?), and old games are still in the process of migrating--slowly.
Otherwise MUX and MUSH have been more or less identical in terms of social characteristics, just with MUXes a tiny bit more liberal than MUSHes (because MUSHes were often around since time immemorial).
That shadowrun one sounds fun :D
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Same character, three mushes. With more or less same continuity.
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That's seriously cool. Are those MUSHes still around?
(Not that I have time to play, but that's really neat.)
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That's seriously cool. Are those MUSHes still around?
(Not that I have time to play, but that's really neat.)
I would be shocked if the seattle one wasn't still about. I dont know about the other two.
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I think I'm going to join Armageddon.
But would someone please show me one of their Background Descriptions?
I want to check that I got the format right.
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I think I'm going to join Armageddon.
But would someone please show me one of their Background Descriptions?
I want to check that I got the format right.
Mini skirt. Long enough to cover the subject. Short enough to keep it interesting.
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Ha, that's almost exactly the same quote they use on the MUSH I've been on lately. :D
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Ha, that's almost exactly the same quote they use on the MUSH I've been on lately. :D
When I've been dumb enough to staff, it what I always tell players.
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Default database? Man, you're on the wrong places.
MUSHes are crummy to code in, though I have a soft spot because I learned on them. Still most RP MUSHes don't have much emphasis on player building. The best RP MUSH I know, a WW:tA based one, has been running for about fifteen years, 20-100 players at a time, and its database is consistently around 3000-4000 objects (tiny!). Building unnecessary for non-builders. Though I was on a previous Elfquest-based one with about three times the DB size for the same players, because your average player coded or cloned their own tent, ridable mount, occasional bedroom etc.
MUCKs are a totally different codebase altogether, there's almost no similarity TBH. MUSH and MUCK are as similar as, I dunno, Diku and Circle (but not as dissimilar as your standard MudOS). I've codewizzed on a couple MUCKs and written a lot of obscenely complex systems from scratch. Multi-User Forth is such a *calming* language to develop in.
I'd say that on MUSHes, code literacy among the general populace is widespread but not very deep...everyone knows a little, few people do much. Usually very technically light. And a lot of WoD MUSHes use a pretty simple drop-in chargen system and simple utilities for bookkeeping that work quite fine. MUCKs on the other hand, many users are very clueless, but there's a ton of in-game programs to take advantage of all the time.
I guess by 'default database' you might mean a MUCK with the standard ws, wa, morph, tport, whereis, etc. programs. But seriously, playing a MUCK that uses some weird tool instead of 'wa', is like logging into a unix system without 'cat'.
Yeah, they all use the default script database as... base... I truly find their command style to be annoying and I've hardcoded & softcoded on them all. I'd rather stick to a non MU* ... But of course, that's a programmer/player's opinion and it's not to say there are no decent MU*es out there.
I have helped program one years ago, most of the commands were actually hardcoded, which helped with the speed and the queuing, so it was alright. The MU*s have some annoying trappings on the programmer side, I mean, it's great if you're not doing anything too complex, but it's pretty much a trade off between performance and easiness. Not to mention the fact the entire database sits in the memory whether it's being used or not. Plus there's the shady command queuing that I don't really wanna go into, lets just say it can cause some annoyances.
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Default database? Man, you're on the wrong places.
MUSHes are crummy to code in, though I have a soft spot because I learned on them. Still most RP MUSHes don't have much emphasis on player building. The best RP MUSH I know, a WW:tA based one, has been running for about fifteen years, 20-100 players at a time, and its database is consistently around 3000-4000 objects (tiny!). Building unnecessary for non-builders. Though I was on a previous Elfquest-based one with about three times the DB size for the same players, because your average player coded or cloned their own tent, ridable mount, occasional bedroom etc.
MUCKs are a totally different codebase altogether, there's almost no similarity TBH. MUSH and MUCK are as similar as, I dunno, Diku and Circle (but not as dissimilar as your standard MudOS). I've codewizzed on a couple MUCKs and written a lot of obscenely complex systems from scratch. Multi-User Forth is such a *calming* language to develop in.
I'd say that on MUSHes, code literacy among the general populace is widespread but not very deep...everyone knows a little, few people do much. Usually very technically light. And a lot of WoD MUSHes use a pretty simple drop-in chargen system and simple utilities for bookkeeping that work quite fine. MUCKs on the other hand, many users are very clueless, but there's a ton of in-game programs to take advantage of all the time.
I guess by 'default database' you might mean a MUCK with the standard ws, wa, morph, tport, whereis, etc. programs. But seriously, playing a MUCK that uses some weird tool instead of 'wa', is like logging into a unix system without 'cat'.
Yeah, they all use the default script database as... base... I truly find their command style to be annoying and I've hardcoded & softcoded on them all. I'd rather stick to a non MU* ... But of course, that's a programmer/player's opinion and it's not to say there are no decent MU*es out there.
I have helped program one years ago, most of the commands were actually hardcoded, which helped with the speed and the queuing, so it was alright. The MU*s have some annoying trappings on the programmer side, I mean, it's great if you're not doing anything too complex, but it's pretty much a trade off between performance and easiness. Not to mention the fact the entire database sits in the memory whether it's being used or not. Plus there's the shady command queuing that I don't really wanna go into, lets just say it can cause some annoyances.
I never done any pyscho coding myself, I never really worried about the queu ordering to much. But at my height of skill, I was only ever intermediate. I'm sure I code in the basic for any mush within a few hours. who, where, ooc code, voting, basic staff stuff.
I started teaching myself mushcode for on mu* tools for my admin responsibility. One that I staffed, we reviewed turned in rps and staff awarded based on a metric. After a bit, the metric was getting a little bit convoluted. I made myself a reward calculator, that did all the work. Gave out the right amount, set it on the player, @mail a basic review.
My first project was a version of flossie the sex sheep.
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Flossie the WH--
*searches the web*
*closes browser* >_O
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What?
o.0
S'not that bad.
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I keep trying to play MUDs, but I never seem to find any good ones, and the better (RP wise) ones seem to have horrible interfaces and poor documentation. :(
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I keep trying to play MUDs, but I never seem to find any good ones, and the better (RP wise) ones seem to have horrible interfaces and poor documentation. :(
From my experience of being a HeadWiz, a codemonkey and builder, and generic staff, more or less all levels of mgm. For Mu*s, is that documentation is hard. If not impossible. The games are organic, in a sense that its workings are always changing. I've never been on a mu* in my 8 or so years, that was *done*. There always something more add, or something to change so forth.
There also the issue, of what consider common knowledge, like +occ, +who(who) +where WHO, +staff, +p(pub so forth) are universal more or less. There exact functionality may be different from place to place, but more or less they work the same.
Each game, is a role playing game so there going to be always a series of familiar commands.
There also the fact that codewiz aren't exactly the most social of staff. They get direction from the Headwiz, but for the most part they're the only one that knows what working under the hood.
Its a combination from constantly changing, staying somewhat familiar, and poor communication.
+help is suppose to be, helpful. Its not. Just be polite, plead newb and see if there a patience player that willing to help you out. On some larger mushes there might be a staffer who sole job is newb helper, but those are uncommon.
As for the interfaces. I don't know, there user friendlyness, seems to about the same. The most convoluted UI I've seen was for a starwars mu*, one that had an okay from Luscas Ltd. Strange place. It never struck me as being any more difficult then any other text parser game.
Sorry to hear that, but from outside of tabletop rp, Mu*s in my experience will get some of the better roleplaying you will see. PbP, has lead to some quality rp though any system outside of freeform (shivers), never function well and move in my opinion, very slow, killing any tension or emotion in the scene.
Although I never had a good a LARP group. Either they were to overly involved or were just bad rp'ers. They exist, I've heard the stories never experience one though.
And because of this thread, and a boredom with others games I'm mu*ing again. Armegon doesn't get my creativity flowing so you won't see me there. But I applied to be generic staff at an up and coming cyperpunk place. I'm hoping to get one of my ideas tried out.
Played Affected Rooms slowly set themselves back together. I got this idea, from my stint of playing on high action martial arts anime type places, where city blocks getting blown up wasn't that uncommon.
The player 'plode the room, they can set the destruction level for the room within, it will change to a preset desc of destruction then it will get slowly repaired overtime.
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I think I'm going to join Armageddon.
But would someone please show me one of their Background Descriptions?
I want to check that I got the format right.
Haha, my first background was about a psychopath elf who would cut himself to see him heal, and use it to learn how to heal others. He ran away from his tribe because he didn't want to fight, only wanted to heal, but was a warrior elf anyway. Died very quickly, lol. It's lame, but it got through.
Just don't troll with it and you should be fine. The imms are very loose with it. There's plenty of samples on the site too, no format to it. It's mostly just to help you be a part of the world.
Also, this (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,33512) is the best beginner's guide.
I keep trying to play MUDs, but I never seem to find any good ones, and the better (RP wise) ones seem to have horrible interfaces and poor documentation. :(
Actually, I find that true. But IMHO, some of the best games I've played, from ADOM beta to DF to the good RPI MUDs all have poor interfaces and documentation. Well worth it :P
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The more time you spend making a game, the less time you have to make a documentation. =p
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Ah, the complexities of this world!
Lost in a sea of sand and stone, alone against the wolves of the alleys.
If you can't understand that, this city is freaking huge and I'm not sure where to go or do.
Yes, I have read the documentation.
I defie you Allanak!
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I disagree about DF having poor documentation. Once i found the wiki, everything was easy. I also spent a week reading the wiki before I actually played DF, as that's the sort of person I am.
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Well, the wiki was maid by the community. I don't think Toady spends any time in there.
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Ah, the complexities of this world!
Lost in a sea of sand and stone, alone against the wolves of the alleys.
If you can't understand that, this city is freaking huge and I'm not sure where to go or do.
Yes, I have read the documentation.
I defie you Allanak!
Lol, go join the T'zai Byn, find a Sergeant and tell him you'd like to join. The city becomes rather small once you get used to it. Bazaar is a huge mess of a place, though :P Yeah, the game doesn't start off giving you an objective or something (unless you play a dwarf). But I've never actually ran out of things to do since someone always tends to pull me into their plots and stuff. The learning curve for Armageddon is pretty steep though, since it doesn't have some kind of wiki like DF does.
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Sowelu:
Again, I re-iterate that the codebase or media means nothing if you are determined to RP, just today we were RPing on City of Heroes. And not on Virtue / Freedom in Pocket D.
Anyone playing Arm:
Drop me a PM if you need any help anywhere, really.
I won't go wrecking your immersion, but if you're stuck, give me a PM before you do something dumb.
Protip: THINK about what you are doing before you do it. If you have time.
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I love Arm for the same reason I love DF. Because you can do some incredibly stupid things and it gives fun results. Not thinking is so much fun :P
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Yeah, but getting killed for a typo is harsh.
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Yeah, but getting killed for a typo is harsh.
I think: "Look Templar"
I type k templar
You slash the Templar on the wrist.
The Templar and all nearby soldier grind you into a bloody pulp.
I think: "Dammit!"
(protip: don't set k as an alias for kill, leave it as meaning kiss and set ki as kill, at least then if you type k templar an npc will ignore you and a player will at least let you off reasonably lightly.
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I remember Armageddon. I got into the game with a character and then wandered aimlessly around the town for a few hours finding a bunch of non-interactive flavor NPCs. I think I talked to one PC total while I was there. Then I got bored at the total lack of anything to do and left, never to return.
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There's very few people on off peak and most are probably off doing something since it's much easier and more rewarding to solo rp a task than say an evening in a bar.
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I usually alias it to "echo Killing should be considered more carefully than that."
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There's very few people on off peak and most are probably off doing something since it's much easier and more rewarding to solo rp a task than say an evening in a bar.
I was going to type that, but thatguyyaknow did it while I pressed the reply button.
Off peak is harsh, can only have around 4 players online. Heh, I used to hang out around bars during off peak to chat with new players but none showed up. So, I went on peak like the others, where there's like 60 chars online at the same time and most of the places are full of conversation spam.
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Arma mud is interesting.
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i like muds but i don't play Armageddon, I play Medievia. Which has a bit of graphics. You can do alot in medievia, You can go on a ship killing pirates or serpents, you can hunt dragons or just hang with clanies. Its a pretty cool game.
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i like muds but i don't play Armageddon, I play Medievia. Which has a bit of graphics. You can do alot in medievia, You can go on a ship killing pirates or serpents, you can hunt dragons or just hang with clanies. Its a pretty cool game.
My only real memory of medievia was getting on a dragon and telling to fly north, then realising I had no idea how to make it stop or land or anything, I can't even remember how I got out of that predicament, think I used whatever the newbie command was to return to the main city.
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I thourght you could only tell dragons to go to a specific place?
This thread should be called mud talk or something.
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I thourght you could only tell dragons to go to a specific place?
This thread should be called mud talk or something.
Yeh you give them a destination or a direction, I didn't know any destinations being the newb I was so I just picked a direction.