Post by: The13thRonin on May 16, 2009, 10:58:42 am
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9205/mineshaft.jpg)
"Sometimes we find others in the darkness, and sometimes we lose them there again."
[YOU HAVE STRUCK ??? ]"Sometimes we find others in the darkness, and sometimes we lose them there again."
Welcome to Dig Deeper, a modification for use with Dwarf Fortress! This project started as a desire for me to write new materials into the game, I wanted to increase the variation between fortresses and even individual dwarves. Sooner or later I began to add other things such as new creatures and new weapons. Before long, after the additions began to become quite numerous, I decided to release Dig Deeper onto the forums. Ever since then the goals of Dig Deeper have been; increasing the variance in Dwarf Fortress and increasing the challenge to cater for more experienced users, all the while maintaining the same 'pick up and go' ease of vanilla Dwarf Fortress.
You can find the download here: Dig Deeper, V1.4B (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980)
TESTIMONIALS:
It includes most of the features I have to sort through and add in PLUS more! I'll be using this now as a base it'll save me a ton of work.
The13thRonin I am a big fan of your Mod, it's the first one that I've stuck with for more than a fortress or two. For the first time in ages I've had some close calls in fortress mode and I am thankful for no end.
You can see Dig Deeper put to great use in Sparkgear 3, the best succession fortress of our time: Click for the whole woeful tale (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=37940.0)
Below is a full list of changes from the README. Please excuse the messiness, it doesn't convert well to forum format.
THE README.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Untelligent on May 16, 2009, 11:59:54 am
Post by: The13thRonin on May 16, 2009, 12:04:42 pm
I see you've added hippopotami. Y'know those are already in the game, right?
Ahhhhh... My bad... I didn't notice I had doubled up... Nice catch and many thanks :). [Must remember to mention you in the next README].
Will be fixed for next version.
Post by: Fermii on May 16, 2009, 04:07:04 pm
Quote
- Carp Figurine (dwarves, humans and elves)
Why the hell would any of those civs( ok, well maybe elves) want to make such a thing?
Post by: Untelligent on May 16, 2009, 05:58:58 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on May 16, 2009, 07:38:58 pm
Quote- Carp Figurine (dwarves, humans and elves)
Why the hell would any of those civs( ok, well maybe elves) want to make such a thing?
It's a collectible?
Some ancient Roman soldiers carved animals out of wood while they were on campaign for their children when they got home. I don't see why Dwarf Fortress should be any different.
Plus it's just bad-ass to have an artifact steel carp figurine called riverdeath menacing with spikes of carp bone...
On a more scary note carp are no longer the most dangerous fish with the inclusion of 'Piranha', stay the hell away from those if you can.
Post by: Deon on May 16, 2009, 08:17:46 pm
Post by: inaluct on May 17, 2009, 01:36:32 am
Do you have penguins?
Yes, he does.
That said, I throw my support behind this mod.
Post by: Great Cthulhu on May 17, 2009, 05:15:01 am
Q. Why can my dwarves mine with gold and silver picks ??? ?Perhaps it's an idea to introduce a "ceremonial" or "ornamental" pick as a separate item? In the real world there's a long history of creating expensive ceremonial weapons, so I wouldn't put it past dwarves to create ceremonial picks. ;)
A. This is an unfortunate side-effect of being able to smith them... However it is not beyond the imagination that such dwarves would only carry around these tools as statuses of wealth and conceal a smaller more practical pick for digging (not worth mentioning in the inventory screen).
Post by: Faenaris on May 17, 2009, 12:05:23 pm
A very comprehensive mod, judging by your readme. And I love Mithril.
EDIT: Have you taken a look at the Metal and Minerals Overhaul mod? It adds more 'realistic' smelter reactions and ores. Just a suggestion ofcourse. :)
Linky: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=33340.0
EDIT 2: How strong are the Orcs in your mod? As strong as the Orc mod?
Post by: Arathanar on May 17, 2009, 03:38:21 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on May 17, 2009, 09:56:26 pm
Just stumbled on your mod, The13thRonin. I got it downloaded and as soon as I got some more experience with the game, I'm go gonna give it a go.
A very comprehensive mod, judging by your readme. And I love Mithril.
EDIT: Have you taken a look at the Metal and Minerals Overhaul mod? It adds more 'realistic' smelter reactions and ores. Just a suggestion ofcourse. :)
Linky: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=33340.0
Thank you for the praise and I'm looking into the Metal and Minerals Overhaul mod as we speak. I might not take the whole idea but I'm sure there's concepts I can implement into DIG DEEPER. Thank you very much for taking the time to make a suggestion and I hope I can put it to a deserved good use!
EDIT 2: How strong are the Orcs in your mod? As strong as the Orc mod?
A tad weaker than the orcs in the orc mod. I based them on the orcs in the orc mod but I decided that they should be more like really, really, really tough goblins.
Quote from: Arathanar link
I've noticed that all the non-animal-man "-man" creatures were changed to Golems, except Blizzard Man, at least in the changes.
I've always thought of the blizzard man as something different to a golem... More like a yeti type creature perhaps? The reason being that all the other 'mans' were based on a distinct material like iron, rock or even magma but 'blizzard' is not an element in itself. I have plans to make an 'Ice Golem' and if you still have qualms about this speak up now... I may have it replace the blizzard man...
Post by: Faenaris on May 18, 2009, 03:50:46 am
Thank you for the praise and I'm looking into the Metal and Minerals Overhaul mod as we speak. I might not take the whole idea but I'm sure there's concepts I can implement into DIG DEEPER. Thank you very much for taking the time to make a suggestion and I hope I can put it to a deserved good use!
...
A tad weaker than the orcs in the orc mod. I based them on the orcs in the orc mod but I decided that they should be more like really, really, really tough goblins.
Thank you for the fast reply! Good luck with the modding. :)
Post by: Kiberkiller on May 18, 2009, 04:29:27 pm
correct me if i'm wrong.
Post by: The13thRonin on May 18, 2009, 08:05:23 pm
your mod seems like alot of fun...the only thing that stop me from downloading it is incompatibility with MayDay's graphic set, and by that i mean that new creature will be letters or numbers.
correct me if i'm wrong.
You are correct but I'm afraid you'll have to take that issue up with MayDay or one of our other competent tile-set/graphics designers. I'm not much of an artist and I wouldn't know where to start even if I knew exactly how to start!
On a different note no-one has commented or rated the file on DFFD yet :(. I'd really like some feedback on how things are going in peoples games and if they have seen any of the changes, what they like and what they don't like! Don't be afraid to post in this thread guys, even if it's just a line! I really appreciate it when people take the time. Working on the next version as we speak, might put a poll up to gauge where you guys stand on incorporating more fantasy metals or if you want me to stick with predominantly realistic additions. Everything added so far is pretty much realistic with the exclusion of creatures.
Sneak peak at the next update: Two new real alloys of gold have been added. More creatures are being planned... Perhaps even some new mega and semi-mega beasts...
Post by: The13thRonin on May 19, 2009, 09:21:26 am
You can find the new file at the same address: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980
Post by: Nesoo on May 19, 2009, 08:50:46 pm
Though, the mod does look interesting. I might have to try it one of these days (I'm too busy working on a couple of forts right now to start yet another).
Post by: The13thRonin on May 20, 2009, 04:58:25 am
Sunstone and Moonstone are already in the vanilla game :)
Though, the mod does look interesting. I might have to try it one of these days (I'm too busy working on a couple of forts right now to start yet another).
Well there goes another incremental release fixing that particular problem. Thank you very much for alerting me to it sir :)!
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980
EDIT: Is anyone actually interested in this mod or am I doing something wrong?
Post by: Faenaris on May 20, 2009, 04:58:06 pm
But the feature list did grip me from the start, even though I haven't tested it yet. :)
Post by: Venturi on May 20, 2009, 05:26:55 pm
Unforunately I couldnt play awhole lot today (damn work) to get a feel for the mod yet. Once I get more time playing, I'll leave some feedback.
Post by: The13thRonin on May 20, 2009, 11:07:08 pm
First thing I noticed on this mod (it was mentioned in another thread) is iron's value has been decreased. As I dont embark with a anvil ( for more points for buying assorted crap ) it kinda threw my saved embark profiles out of wack.
Unforunately I couldnt play awhole lot today (damn work) to get a feel for the mod yet. Once I get more time playing, I'll leave some feedback.
I think that DF needs a bit of an increase in toughness for the average player... I think eventually I'll make farming harder and the average creature tougher.
Post by: Faenaris on May 21, 2009, 03:53:19 am
I think that DF needs a bit of an increase in toughness for the average player... I think eventually I'll make farming harder and the average creature tougher.
I'm all for making the creatures tougher. Once you get a couple of champions running around, gobbos and assorted critters get pasted into Dwarfcake faster than you can say "Fun!".
Post by: CptFastbreak on May 21, 2009, 06:51:37 am
Apart from that, I dunno how historically accurate you want this mod to be but I thought I'd mention that the following instruments weren't developed until the 19th century or later: Accordeon, Harmonika, all Saxophones, Euphonium, and Banjo. That said, having dwarves playing the banjo is kind of an appealing thought.
Post by: The13thRonin on May 21, 2009, 11:13:37 pm
Looks really nice, I'll definitely try this out the next time I generate a world.
Apart from that, I dunno how historically accurate you want this mod to be but I thought I'd mention that the following instruments weren't developed until the 19th century or later: Accordeon, Harmonika, all Saxophones, Euphonium, and Banjo. That said, having dwarves playing the banjo is kind of an appealing thought.
I don't really mind how historically accurate the game is considering it has elves and dwarves... I'm thinking that might have a butterfly effect and a lot of things might be different. I'm incorporating a lot of plausible fantasy stuff into the mod too...
TEASER.
Coming in the next update:
It can kill you with its screams and wails...
Any guesses?
No...?
How about... A valuable extract from a sea being fashionable into a gemstone.
Post by: Faenaris on May 22, 2009, 07:43:21 am
Post by: The13thRonin on May 22, 2009, 09:49:11 am
A siren and you extract a Wailing Gem?
Banshees and mermaid tears.
Post by: Faenaris on May 22, 2009, 10:38:03 am
A siren and you extract a Wailing Gem?
Banshees and mermaid tears.
Awww ... Pretty close though. ;D
Post by: fungee on May 22, 2009, 11:40:02 am
By the way is it a bug that orcs from their previous successful siege are friendly?
Either orc bowmen are über killing machines or I just suck, go figure :P . Are the orcs even nastier in the actual orc mod? I'm used to some serious whooping from other roguelikes so I won't get depressed of FUN TIMES (probably :'()
Another orc siege, wish me luck 8)!
EDIT: Since all the reclaimer dwarves are(/were) friends and they suffered quite alot casualties (10 out of 50) it ended up with all the remaining dwarves going berserk / mad... Is there a way around that ???
EDIT2: 9 miserable dwarves are still alive and just got another orc siege :o just waiting the remaining dorfs to die for now...
Post by: The13thRonin on May 22, 2009, 08:14:06 pm
Post by: fungee on May 23, 2009, 06:48:35 am
Yeah Orcs are meant to be that hard, they aren't as tough as in the orc mod, I nerfed them a bit. Also yeah the reclaim thing is a bug with the reclaim code in vanilla Dwarf Fortress. I can't fix it. They go hostile again on the next orc siege I believe.
Yeah I noticed them going hostile on the next siege.
But it's the spiral of unhappiness that decimated my band of reclaimer dwarves (repeated in a vicious cycle) until I decided to abandon that fortress for good. Haunted surroundings and orc siegers combined there was no time to "build happiness" for the dwarves to balance between unhappiness caused by their deaths (since all of the embarking dwarves are friends the situation escalated from a couple of casualties).
Post by: The13thRonin on May 23, 2009, 10:48:43 am
GCSQ... Destroyer of worlds... Purger of fortresses... Will make you regret the day you were born.
Post by: fungee on May 23, 2009, 12:30:10 pm
Can it eat MAGMA?
Post by: The13thRonin on May 23, 2009, 12:57:48 pm
What is that ???
Can it eat MAGMA?
Something more scary than skeletal dragons and demons combined.
This short extract written in parchment was found from the last fortress to encounter one...
... The blood coats the walls here now... The mithril gates lie smashed... It found a way around our traps... I don't know where it is now... It scrambled off down one of the exploratory mining shafts... It must have crawled from the deepest, darkest part of earth to drag itself all the way to Razorshafts... To claim our deep fortress as its new dark lair... I hear the pitter patter of its many fearsome limbs now as it approaches... I turn to face it with my battle-axe... Might as well be wielding a tooth-pick. If anyone finds this scroll... If you ever encounter a... *blood has seeped onto this part of the page, disfiguring further words* ... make sure that you *more blood*... Get out... Run... Run as fast as you can... It... Can't... Be... Stopped...
Post by: inaluct on May 23, 2009, 02:08:08 pm
Damn. I was just getting ready to mod it in and start a fortress. Oh well.
Post by: Faenaris on May 23, 2009, 03:41:23 pm
New teaser:
GCSQ... Destroyer of worlds... Purger of fortresses... Will make you regret the day you were born.
Something more scary than skeletal dragons and demons combined.
This short extract written in parchment was found from the last fortress to encounter one...
... The blood coats the walls here now... The mithril gates lie smashed... It found a way around our traps... I don't know where it is now... It scrambled off down one of the exploratory mining shafts... It must have crawled from the deepest, darkest part of earth to drag itself all the way to Razorshafts... To claim our deep fortress as its new dark lair... I hear the pitter patter of its many fearsome limbs now as it approaches... I turn to face it with my battle-axe... Might as well be wielding a tooth-pick. If anyone finds this scroll... If you ever encounter a... *blood has seeped onto this part of the page, disfiguring further words* ... make sure that you *more blood*... Get out... Run... Run as fast as you can... It... Can't... Be... Stopped...
Giant Cave Spider Queen? Holy smokes, my dwarves are already shaking in their mithril-clad boots!
Post by: Foa on May 23, 2009, 06:37:29 pm
She better be an arachnotaur ( Super GCS + Crossbow!!! ) .New teaser:
GCSQ... Destroyer of worlds... Purger of fortresses... Will make you regret the day you were born.
Something more scary than skeletal dragons and demons combined.
This short extract written in parchment was found from the last fortress to encounter one...
... The blood coats the walls here now... The mithril gates lie smashed... It found a way around our traps... I don't know where it is now... It scrambled off down one of the exploratory mining shafts... It must have crawled from the deepest, darkest part of earth to drag itself all the way to Razorshafts... To claim our deep fortress as its new dark lair... I hear the pitter patter of its many fearsome limbs now as it approaches... I turn to face it with my battle-axe... Might as well be wielding a tooth-pick. If anyone finds this scroll... If you ever encounter a... *blood has seeped onto this part of the page, disfiguring further words* ... make sure that you *more blood*... Get out... Run... Run as fast as you can... It... Can't... Be... Stopped...
Giant Cave Spider Queen? Holy smokes, my dwarves are already shaking in their mithril-clad boots!
Post by: The13thRonin on May 24, 2009, 09:53:34 pm
You can find it here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980
Main page and download page now both have the updated README/Change logs...
Enjoy guys... I spent quite some time on this one... I think I'll have a rest for a day or two and maybe actually PLAY Dwarf Fortress again instead of just modding the stuffing out of it.
Post by: Faenaris on May 25, 2009, 03:03:59 am
*hopes that he doesn't encounter the GCSQ right away*
Post by: fungee on May 25, 2009, 03:10:55 am
Maybe I'll get eaten by the spiders now :(
Post by: The13thRonin on May 25, 2009, 03:38:49 am
Hmm so 0.85c -> 0.97 was just changes to /raw folder so I only replaced that. So my current save stayed intact :P
Maybe I'll get eaten by the spiders now :(
There was some speech changes too.
Oh and I decided things were getting too easy... Along with some random bug-fixes now the new version is up.
* Dwarves are twice as likely to tantrum if you don't give them warm beds, good food and nice rooms... Leave them on the floor and starving and things will get ugly fast.
* Plants take almost twice as long to grow... Time to start using those herbalists, hunters and fishers guys.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980
Post by: fungee on May 25, 2009, 03:57:03 am
Good thing I already have humongous amount of food and drink, bwahaha. I'm trying to produce alot of different types of drinks too. Drink booze and be happy or die ye picky dwarves >:(
-> Probably gets eaten by QGCS later today when I have time to play.
*updated to 0.97b
Thanks for yer hard work The13thRonin!
Post by: fungee on May 26, 2009, 01:31:50 pm
*3458 orc bone bolts and counting*
Post by: Nivim on May 27, 2009, 03:53:35 am
Where do you change how dwarves feel about certain events? And, what things did you change in the Speech file? You can at least allow me those.
Post by: The13thRonin on May 27, 2009, 03:58:04 am
Too bad you can't be more detailed in your changes, I had just finished incorporating what I wanted when you release this. I have to go through and compare all the files now.
Where do you change how dwarves feel about certain events? And, what things did you change in the Speech file? You can at least allow me those.
All I added to dwarves was [PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:45:100] to their creature file.
I simply added things to a lot of the speech files, you'll have to open each to see what I've changed. I can't remember each change. Sorry...
Post by: Nivim on May 27, 2009, 04:29:15 am
It is just a bit harder to do that because I already have so many things added in there. Hm, perhaps it would be easier to pick out changes if I compared to some vanilla files.
Post by: The13thRonin on May 27, 2009, 06:58:07 am
All additions are in separate files. Only changes overwrite files.
PS: Work on the new version is going good +50 changes.
Post by: Nivim on May 27, 2009, 05:43:43 pm
Also, I no longer get a steel battle axe on embark, or an anvil. Why does this happen?
Post by: The13thRonin on May 27, 2009, 06:57:20 pm
Well, I've still made changes to the Addition files, so I still had to look through each of those. And I look through the rest for possible changes that could rely on each other.
Also, I no longer get a steel battle axe on embark, or an anvil. Why does this happen?
You have a 50% chance of getting a steel hatchet instead, does the same thing.
You should still be getting an anvil... But it should be worth half as much... Unless you've messed with the METALS folder I don't see why you wouldn't.
Post by: Nivim on May 27, 2009, 09:06:16 pm
It's possible a lot of my problem comes from trying to mix parts of both this mod and Civilization Forge. Although I made sure to go through all of the files (this time too) to prevent conflictions, there seems to be some problem with how the civilization embark decides what you get. I have been trying to divide my problems between the two threads by looking at what specific thing each is linked to.
(Although I am still not sure which mod I got the golems from, apparently the [COMMON_DOMESTIC] tag made Diorite Golem meat and Diorite Golem bone crafts start appearing in places.)
Post by: magikarcher on May 28, 2009, 02:54:38 am
Post by: Deon on May 28, 2009, 08:34:48 am
(Although I am still not sure which mod I got the golems from, apparently the [COMMON_DOMESTIC] tag made Diorite Golem meat and Diorite Golem bone crafts start appearing in places.)
This is the primary problem with golems. They should have [NOMEAT] and such tags.
Post by: The13thRonin on May 28, 2009, 08:46:03 am
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980
Post by: Faenaris on May 28, 2009, 08:56:02 am
So, what's new? I spot an Orc worldgen nerf, but any others?
Post by: The13thRonin on May 28, 2009, 09:16:06 am
You crank em out fast, The13thRonin! Barely have the time to 'finish' a fort. ^^
So, what's new? I spot an Orc worldgen nerf, but any others?
General balancing, LOTS of new engravings, new creatures (some domestic and a new MEGABEAST)!, new extracts a new metal (type of patterned steel), tweaks to the gems and isolation of jade into two two counterparts (realistically). New toy. Cave honey/mead! New plants, some new dyes, new drinks, a new source of wood: Tulipwood. Four new helmets and a new armor-type.
If I update to fast for you finish your forts... The changes can wait... You will need to gen a new world though! I do have a surprise side-project for you guys too though. I'm trying my hand at altering RantingRodent's dwarven graphics set! You can find it at the link below... Here's how it looks so far... Just minor changes mind you all credit to Sphr and RantingRodent.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1056
Here's the preview of what I've changed:
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6167/dwarveso.png)
Brim on carpenters hat reduced to a beanie, the woodcutter also has had his axe thrown over his shoulder. I gave the dungeon master beady red eyes. The furnace dwarf has gained a mask and a torch (the torch is courtesy of Beefmo). The Dwarven prisoner has had his feet redone to be standing. The siege operator has got a facemask/helmet and a piece of metal body armor.
You guys like?
Post by: Faenaris on May 28, 2009, 09:25:50 am
And me like the graphics A LOT! I'm a very big fan of RantingRodent's set and if you are tweaking it, I can only say: HURRAY! Will you try to add new graphics for your new creatures too? That would be totally awesome. I'm already playing your mod using the default ASCI set, but having a graphic set would make this mod even more shiny. :)
Post by: The13thRonin on May 28, 2009, 09:28:59 am
Much thanks for posting about the new features! I don't mind upgrading and regenning, it's all about trying out new stuff! And every fortress has a new story, so, I don't mind. ^^
And me like the graphics A LOT! I'm a very big fan of RantingRodent's set and if you are tweaking it, I can only say: HURRAY! Will you try to add new graphics for your new creatures too? That would be totally awesome. I'm already playing your mod using the default ASCI set, but having a graphic set would make this mod even more shiny. :)
I guess I could give it a shot when I get the time :).
Post by: Faenaris on May 28, 2009, 11:00:23 am
I guess I could give it a shot when I get the time :).
Urist be praised!
Post by: Deon on May 28, 2009, 11:19:13 am
I must say, now it's possible to think that siege operator is a dungeon master at the first glance. I preferred the version with a helmet. Other than that, it's good.
Post by: The13thRonin on May 28, 2009, 11:26:28 am
Ah, old good Sphr's graphics set.
I must say, now it's possible to think that siege operator is a dungeon master at the first glance. I preferred the version with a helmet. Other than that, it's good.
Thanks for the feedback... I'll have to make them a bit more dissimilar. But are you kidding me? That helmet was UGH... The Siege Operator and the new Woodcutter are my pride and joy!
Post by: ein on May 28, 2009, 10:11:12 pm
I'm definitely gonna mod a lot of this in when my current forts end.
I'd imagine the extra toys would get annoying though, unless of course, you somehow managed to find a way to make it so that you could pick what toy gets crafted...
Anyways, this looks great.
The RAR is going to stay in my mod archives.
Post by: The13thRonin on May 30, 2009, 12:30:42 pm
Umm... wow.
I'm definitely gonna mod a lot of this in when my current forts end.
I'd imagine the extra toys would get annoying though, unless of course, you somehow managed to find a way to make it so that you could pick what toy gets crafted...
Anyways, this looks great.
The RAR is going to stay in my mod archives.
Thank you, I hope you enjoy it. I put maybe 100+ hours into it so it balances nicely :).
Post by: Beacon on May 31, 2009, 03:41:02 am
Good job, keep it up.
- Beacon
Post by: The13thRonin on May 31, 2009, 06:48:19 pm
Let me know how ruthless the orcs are in this version. I hardcore nerfed them. Before they were attacking once per season. They should be a BIT less active now.
Post by: alphawolf29 on June 01, 2009, 08:11:45 pm
- On some embarks, Food simply will not grow in underground (or aboveground) farms
- Military dwarves no longer start with weapons, shields, or armor! (Very serious, as i rely on starting equip to protect initial dwarves) I suspect this has something to do with the name change from "steel" to "patterned steel" thus making the supposed starting equip obsolete
Post by: The13thRonin on June 02, 2009, 12:49:46 pm
I have some bugs with Dig Deeper 1.01
- On some embarks, Food simply will not grow in underground (or aboveground) farms
- Military dwarves no longer start with weapons, shields, or armor! (Very serious, as i rely on starting equip to protect initial dwarves) I suspect this has something to do with the name change from "steel" to "patterned steel" thus making the supposed starting equip obsolete
Thank you for the feedback. Food now takes a lot longer to grow. You can expect to wait up to a whole season before you see a harvest. This also means you shouldn't plant just before Winter or your crops will fail. Most if not all of the added crops are above-ground crops.
And as far as I know the only dwarf to start with free (leather) armor is a hunter... I didn't think any of the others started with free equipment... Someone correct me if I'm wrong?
Post by: Faenaris on June 02, 2009, 05:13:20 pm
Post by: abculatter_2 on June 02, 2009, 07:02:23 pm
And I just realized I have the last version of dig deeper. Can I just replace the files and continue in my little world or do I have to delete everything and start over?
Post by: The13thRonin on June 02, 2009, 11:33:09 pm
Just figured out how to get this thing to work, and just genned a new large world for my first game(s). You can go ahead and add me if you want.
And I just realized I have the last version of dig deeper. Can I just replace the files and continue in my little world or do I have to delete everything and start over?
Welcome to our little sub-community :). I hope you are enjoying the mod!
If you replace the files but don't regenerate your world you should only see the changes made since the last version. You won't get any of the new content.
I recommend finishing up with your current fortress and then genning a new world after that, there will always be updates but that doesn't mean everyone has to be upgraded to the latest and greatest version, people are free to move on at their own pace, just means you guys might skip an update and end up getting 2x the content ;).
Post by: abculatter_2 on June 03, 2009, 12:13:47 pm
Welcome to our little sub-community :). I hope you are enjoying the mod!
So far so good.
If you replace the files but don't regenerate your world you should only see the changes made since the last version. You won't get any of the new content.
Awwwwww...
Updating the files will have no effect on my current fortress, right?
Post by: The13thRonin on June 03, 2009, 02:07:05 pm
Welcome to our little sub-community :). I hope you are enjoying the mod!
So far so good.If you replace the files but don't regenerate your world you should only see the changes made since the last version. You won't get any of the new content.
Awwwwww...
Updating the files will have no effect on my current fortress, right?
Unfortunately, no it will not.
The new version does have some significant nerfs to the orcs so it is recommended to make the eventual transition.
Post by: Judenbaer on June 03, 2009, 05:56:40 pm
Post by: abculatter_2 on June 03, 2009, 09:52:16 pm
Welcome to our little sub-community :). I hope you are enjoying the mod!
So far so good.If you replace the files but don't regenerate your world you should only see the changes made since the last version. You won't get any of the new content.
Awwwwww...
Updating the files will have no effect on my current fortress, right?
Unfortunately, no it will not.
The new version does have some significant nerfs to the orcs so it is recommended to make the eventual transition.
Well, after an incident involving a fire
Let's see if I get a tyrannosaurs in the first year!
Post by: Shima on June 03, 2009, 11:39:16 pm
New foods. Adds variety if nothing else, they work as far as I've played, which is enough to get most of them (except the fine meals). The game pretty much treats them like instruments and toys, it'll randomly pick something from the list and that'll get cooked.
Code's here if you or anyone else wants to use 'em. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to actually find what could be considered "neutral" prepared meals. We humans eat way too much that's basically just a cooked hunk of meat. Speaking of which, I don't even know if "steak" counts, but I included that anyway.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: The13thRonin on June 04, 2009, 05:23:46 am
Here's an easy suggestion you can consider (I did this to my personal version of the game).
New foods. Adds variety if nothing else, they work as far as I've played, which is enough to get most of them (except the fine meals). The game pretty much treats them like instruments and toys, it'll randomly pick something from the list and that'll get cooked.
Code's here if you or anyone else wants to use 'em. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to actually find what could be considered "neutral" prepared meals. We humans eat way too much that's basically just a cooked hunk of meat. Speaking of which, I don't even know if "steak" counts, but I included that anyway.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wow... Much appreciated! Adding you to the README buddy and I'll definitely get some of that content in :).
Post by: Shima on June 04, 2009, 08:57:28 am
Ammo (A note: I've got the damages rebalanced. Vanilla bolts and arrows do 100, I've set bolts to 70 and named them "quarrels", and arrows are now 30. Still quite deadly, but less hand-cannon'y).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Weapons
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Armor
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: I can confirm that the Mountainhome will send Scalemail, but I can't say if it works yet or not, or if it can be made at the fort or not.
Post by: Judenbaer on June 04, 2009, 03:42:46 pm
I've got plenty of other stuff if you want it. Mostly new weapons and ammo, one new armor type, so forth.
Ammo (A note: I've got the damages rebalanced. Vanilla bolts and arrows do 100, I've set bolts to 70 and named them "quarrels", and arrows are now 30. Still quite deadly, but less hand-cannon'y).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
WeaponsSpoiler (click to show/hide)
ArmorSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: I can confirm that the Mountainhome will send Scalemail, but I can't say if it works yet or not, or if it can be made at the fort or not.
That arrow nerf should hold me over untill Toady releases the next version, where they're supposedly not as mp40+small chainsaw-esque.
Post by: Nivim on June 04, 2009, 08:59:15 pm
Oh, and does anyone want to try and make a graphics set for some of the new race/creatures. To many of the look the same and with my tileset the xelics and dynasauri are both cabinets. I tried my hand at it, but I haven't managed anything that looks good. The xelics always come out fat, with bad heads, and the dynasauri look like they haven't eaten in many years.
Post by: Shima on June 04, 2009, 09:13:28 pm
I was also especially annoyed by the lack of [CAN_STONE] items due to the fact that spears, maces, and basic (if highly breakable) axes were all possible and somewhat common to our ancestors. Makes sense that the Dwarves of all races would know how to use it. Currently I haven't added [CAN_STONE] to the basic mace yet, but I might shortly.
So far I've had no problems navigating the Craftsdwarf shops with the amount of stone weaponry available, it comes out to less than, or exactly at, one page worth at best.
Post by: Nivim on June 05, 2009, 01:13:58 pm
Try the smith, I am talking about the full list of weapons.
Post by: Shima on June 05, 2009, 02:45:11 pm
Especially since Dwarfs don't get ALL of those, I split the weapons up throughout the DF races and my own (Added Snakemen, Lizardmen, and Bandits from another mod). After all, Dwarves shouldn't be making, say, Elven Sabres at their forges, that's High Treason!
Edit: My favorite of the foodstuffs I added.
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9503/59779282.jpg)
Post by: Blargityblarg on June 07, 2009, 06:43:32 am
Imma see if I can find it in my recycle bin.
Post by: Shima on June 07, 2009, 07:40:02 am
And constant attacks by Zombies. Not the regular kind, a modded in Civ kind that poison you very badly if they bite and love to attack. Think Orcs, except they don't bleed or breathe.
Post by: lastofthelight on June 07, 2009, 12:26:29 pm
ADD ME.
P.S. Yes, you'd be amazed how often I really do reinstall DF. I probably have like 40 complete installations of it on my computer. I have no idea why I reinstall it so often.
Post by: The13thRonin on June 08, 2009, 07:52:55 am
I finally took a detailed look at this mod. Its pretty sweet. It includes most of the features I have to sort through and re-add in by hand everytime I forget where I put my copy of DF on my disorganized computer/update to a new version...PLUS more! I'll definately be using this now as a base atop my vanilla DF, it'll save me a ton of work.
ADD ME.
P.S. Yes, you'd be amazed how often I really do reinstall DF. I probably have like 40 complete installations of it on my computer. I have no idea why I reinstall it so often.
Testimony added to the front page!
Post by: Keita on June 08, 2009, 03:34:00 pm
Post by: fungee on June 12, 2009, 04:59:53 pm
EDIT: They show up in Vanilla DF
Post by: The13thRonin on June 13, 2009, 03:19:43 pm
Hmmm, why can't I build magma forge & smelters >:( ??? ( they don't show up in workshop / furnace menus )
EDIT: They show up in Vanilla DF
You can only build them on a map that has magma. That's same as vanilla...
Post by: AtomicPaperclip on June 14, 2009, 12:58:16 am
Orc hammerers = full steel
?
Post by: fungee on June 14, 2009, 04:35:30 am
Hmmm, why can't I build magma forge & smelters >:( ??? ( they don't show up in workshop / furnace menus )
EDIT: They show up in Vanilla DF
You can only build them on a map that has magma. That's same as vanilla...
Maybe I should've added THERE IS MAGMA.
The problem is I don't have magma buildings showing up in the building menus... And I have no idea why ???
Post by: Kohou on June 14, 2009, 08:30:14 am
Or do they both use too many similar things?
Post by: doomender on June 14, 2009, 01:12:16 pm
Unfortunately, I'm not willing to play it, yet, since I am too attached to my newest fort.
I will try the soonest I can, though.
Since nobody seems to want to rate it, I've taken the liberty of... helping that along.
Post by: AtomicPaperclip on June 14, 2009, 01:53:42 pm
Orc siege first winter, I have a whole barricade set up so they can't path into my fort but it doesn't stop them from raping my outdoor productivity with job spam.
Orc hammermen are virtually unkillable with my no quality bone bolts.
Post by: Kidiri on June 17, 2009, 09:29:50 am
Native mithril seems to have CLUSTER in it's ENVIRONMENT tag. However, it's located in platinum, gold and silver, which are veins, or even small clusters in the case of platinum. Wouldn't this cause trouble, seeing you're trying to get microcline/orthoclase/magnetite/...-sized clusters in veins, which are inherently smaller? And wouldn't you want to replace it with CLUSTER_SMALL?
Post by: The13thRonin on June 17, 2009, 12:30:19 pm
I've been playing for a couple of days with this mod, and I must say I'm a fan of it. Although, I have a question after looking into the raws:
Native mithril seems to have CLUSTER in it's ENVIRONMENT tag. However, it's located in platinum, gold and silver, which are veins, or even small clusters in the case of platinum. Wouldn't this cause trouble, seeing you're trying to get microcline/orthoclase/magnetite/...-sized clusters in veins, which are inherently smaller? And wouldn't you want to replace it with CLUSTER_SMALL?
Oh? Have you noticed any problems in-game? I assumed clusters were inherently small and small_clusters was just smaller! The problem with giving mithril small_clusters is then it gives the player a very, very tiny amount to play with. I guess I will change it if it's necessary and creating problems though.
Post by: Kidiri on June 17, 2009, 03:19:00 pm
[ENVIRONMENT:SEDIMENTARY:VEIN:50]
This way it won't be over abundant, but if you find it there's enough to make some armour/weapons/... Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
Post by: Akreaveter on June 17, 2009, 07:05:27 pm
During the first year, when my caravan/liaison came by, I didn't have a trade depot set up yet. I built it right then, so the mules at least came by to unpack.. but they carried nothing. I figured it may have just been my fault.. but then the elves came by, who also carried nothing.
Not sure what will happen when an actual wagon comes in.. just barely into the second year. Time to go find out.
Post by: The13thRonin on June 17, 2009, 08:41:17 pm
Works wonderfully for me so far, except for one problem..
During the first year, when my caravan/liaison came by, I didn't have a trade depot set up yet. I built it right then, so the mules at least came by to unpack.. but they carried nothing. I figured it may have just been my fault.. but then the elves came by, who also carried nothing.
Not sure what will happen when an actual wagon comes in.. just barely into the second year. Time to go find out.
That's one weird ass bug... :o
I'll try to replicate it.
Same with the magma forge thing although I'm almost certain that's not Dig Deeper's fault.
Post by: Blargityblarg on June 18, 2009, 02:20:49 am
Post by: Jwguy on June 19, 2009, 12:19:17 am
The Mod looks neat on the readme, but when played with, it performs less than admirably, especially in that in seems to overwrite goblins (Everytime I generate a world, Goblins are -gone-. 75 years, all races but goblins and kobolds appear, however, Kobolds still come to the fortress), and the siege problems which overwhelm with inappropriate difficulty at such an early time. I've managed to fight off two waves, each time sustaining heavy casualties to my fortress, and now tantrums are going on and off everywhere.
Potentially a good mod, but without some much needed adjustments, I can't really say so.
EDIT:
Third Year's Winter, Surviving 34 dwarves faced 60+ Orcs. I only managed with trade caravan guards and an entirely militarized fortress. Elite Orc Bowmen sniped down the Corridors of traps at my dwarves, killing many without any resistance, forcing me to send the Melee and Ranged fighters in. 10 dwarves made survived, eight severely injured with wounds they'll likely never recover from.
Post by: The13thRonin on June 19, 2009, 04:05:22 pm
As for the goblins... They survive, I've never had them completely wiped out, just seen them confined to one corner of the map. But if the cost of having the orcs in is less goblin populations then I'm more than happy to make that sacrifice.
Quote
Third Year's Winter, Surviving 34 dwarves faced 60+ Orcs. I only managed with trade caravan guards and an entirely militarized fortress. Elite Orc Bowmen sniped down the Corridors of traps at my dwarves, killing many without any resistance, forcing me to send the Melee and Ranged fighters in. 10 dwarves made survived, eight severely injured with wounds they'll likely never recover from.
Welcome to fun!
Also about the orcs being nameless: a) I can't change this as if I give the orcs the [CANSPEAK] tag they'll start sending you trade caravans. However I kind of like the idea of a fortress being assaulted by nameless hordes of vicious orcs... It gives the world something a bit more scary than the pansy elves.
EDIT: I'm sorry to hear you did not have fun with the mod. I suggest you try one of the other ones that doesn't focus on making the game more difficult. Try Civilization Forge or Dwarf Fortress Complete.
Post by: Karzack on June 20, 2009, 12:16:06 am
As for me though, it really changed how I played. Yes it was frustrating to be destroyed in under a year. But, it made me rethink my old defenses. I wussed out and removed the [avoidtraps] though, but I never really relied on traps when it came to the orcs. It was more of a last ditch effort. Before I was able to defend myself reliably, I would just close up the fortress so no one could get in or out. This did cause issues with the caravans though, but I worked around it. I ended up digging out a series of tunnels that led to strategically placed guard towers. When I was sieged, I had 4 squads of archers that would pick off the non bow users. Depending on which tower they were near. When it came to bow users I usually just locked myself inside. Using the floodgates (the way I sealed myself in) to get them to move tward my fortress I could pick off a lot of them. By the time they got to my fortress my melee units would take them out. I always seemed to loose a few, but that's war I guess.
I still did get sieged by the goblins, it just wasn't near as often as the orcs. And with all of the steel the orcs bring, it started to become easier and easier to defend against them. Champions in steel are pretty tough. Even against the orcs.
I am currently playing the mod with orcs removed. Right now, I'm more in just playing sandbox mode with a little excitement now and then. I even had invaders turn off completely for a while.
Post by: The13thRonin on June 20, 2009, 12:41:01 am
I had the same issues as Jwguy. One can either remove the orc files in the raws or just turn off invaders. Just turn invaders back on when you are ready to deal with them.
As for me though, it really changed how I played. Yes it was frustrating to be destroyed in under a year. But, it made me rethink my old defenses. I wussed out and removed the [avoidtraps] though, but I never really relied on traps when it came to the orcs. It was more of a last ditch effort. Before I was able to defend myself reliably, I would just close up the fortress so no one could get in or out. This did cause issues with the caravans though, but I worked around it. I ended up digging out a series of tunnels that led to strategically placed guard towers. When I was sieged, I had 4 squads of archers that would pick off the non bow users. Depending on which tower they were near. When it came to bow users I usually just locked myself inside. Using the floodgates (the way I sealed myself in) to get them to move tward my fortress I could pick off a lot of them. By the time they got to my fortress my melee units would take them out. I always seemed to loose a few, but that's war I guess.
I still did get sieged by the goblins, it just wasn't near as often as the orcs. And with all of the steel the orcs bring, it started to become easier and easier to defend against them. Champions in steel are pretty tough. Even against the orcs.
I am currently playing the mod with orcs removed. Right now, I'm more in just playing sandbox mode with a little excitement now and then. I even had invaders turn off completely for a while.
I find that TRAPAVOID makes users be a bit more inventive with their traps. Moats... Supports that are rigged to blow and cause cave-ins... That sort of thing...
As for losing a few men in battle... You can't expect the dwarves to never take a scratch! You have to earn your victory in blood :P. However if you want to wimp out you may order all your inhabitants to stay INSIDE the fortress. Not even the orcs can beat down doors (last time I checked them). And I don't think they have any mounts capable of doing so either. So you CAN wait them out but you won't be able to trade/deforest/fish... But again... That's what a siege is...
Post by: Jwguy on June 20, 2009, 10:24:24 am
Without that, it seems less as though you intended it, and more as though you seemed to blunder about it. After knowing what to expect from the mod, I prepared appropriately, and can and do survive without much, if any problems. The issue is that these details seem to have gone completely unspoken in your readme, and that's what bothers me.
You'd think since the mod was meant for the difficulty, that it'd be mentioned. Suprises are good for some people, but generally, with mods for games, a detailed list with the intent of changes, as well as the itemized list thereafter, is the best course of action.
And also, I must disagree on your comment about never expecting my dwarves to take a scratch. I pride myself on being able to come up with strategies that allow my dwarves to never -have- to take anything, as fun as it might be to the otherwise, and as much as I love the ASCII brutality of DF combat. Winning with clever ingenuity and design is just as dwarven as hacking at their necks with an axe. The current fortress, as said, can deal the orcs off with little to no difficulty, whether by killing them, or simply outlasting them. The Fortress is entirely self-sufficient and protected, a goal I had to start on much earlier than usual.
I digress, though, and perhaps the Goblins is simply a local problem of mine, however unlikely it would be, having simply plugged the mod over my vanilla copy of DF. I still cannot seem to locate them on the four or five worlds I've generated, even after modding them into Adventurer mode to check. Also, if difficulty is your goal, why don't you just work towards having the Goblins and Orcs siege in tandem? That'd seem much better, I'd think, and honestly, that's what I was hoping for in this mod.
Opposingly, on the issue of orcs, there was never a problem with goblins sending caravans, and yet they all had names? I am fairly sure, because of that, that it's possible, whether that includes the [CANSPEAK] tag or not.
On another note, I've found that a hell of a lot of stone types have been moved to economic instead of other stone, category-wise. I try to make blocks of Alunite, only to find that my dwarves won't touch the stuff because the stone list is all skewered.
Post by: Karzack on June 20, 2009, 02:21:08 pm
Quote
On another note, I've found that a hell of a lot of stone types have been moved to economic instead of other stone, category-wise. I try to make blocks of Alunite, only to find that my dwarves won't touch the stuff because the stone list is all skewered.
This is the economy stone mod, or something like that. It makes all stone this way, so you can have more control over what you make out of what. I didn't realize this at first either.
I seem to play a lot like you Jwguy. I don't like loosing any dwarfs. Although with this mod installed, I was just thrilled when I only lost one or two. :) I personally play DF more for the sandbox than the challenge though. Not all times but most of the time.
Post by: AtomicPaperclip on June 20, 2009, 04:13:35 pm
I like putting economic stone piles by my masons so they make valuable furniture.
I have not experienced the no trade items with caravans, depot built before or after.
Post by: The13thRonin on June 20, 2009, 08:45:20 pm
I hate the economy stone thing
I like putting economic stone piles by my masons so they make valuable furniture.
I have not experienced the no trade items with caravans, depot built before or after.
But you can still do that? The Economic Stone Mod simply gives you control over what stone your normal dwarves will use for crafting and such. I found that sometimes when I put MAKE CRAFTS on repeat my dwarves would grab valuable materials and waste them on stupid pursuits leaving me with clay and granite for artifacts and special rooms. Say you want nothing but gold objects for your Kings room... Make everything economic stone except gold and then you can queue up all the objects you want and your dwarves will bypass all the copper and silver and steel to get at your gold reserves NO MATTER WHERE they are positioned in your fortress. You can change what is and isn't economic stone through the ROCK menu near where the STOCKPILE menu is on the status screen showing how many dwarves and food and wealth you have.
Quote
I seem to play a lot like you Jwguy. I don't like loosing any dwarfs. Although with this mod installed, I was just thrilled when I only lost one or two. :) I personally play DF more for the sandbox than the challenge though. Not all times but most of the time.
It is still meant to be played as a sandbox :). It (for me at least) just a little bit of a drag when a siege never made it past your front gate and weren't worthy to fight your fortresses dregs not to mention the champions. With this mod war feels like war... Sure you're outnumbered most of the time... Sure the orcs are tougher... You're a human player with a mind of your own. You can use tactics and fortress slights of hand like pitfalls to beat the AI back. After all... No-one has ever attempted a siege with significantly less firepower than the besieged town/castle... That would be crazy ;). It helps keep things interesting late game especially.
Quote
If that is the case, 13th Ronin, it'd probably be better that you actually include the details of difficulty in your readme and upload directories. As I said before, I believe I gave them a very thorough run-down, and I believe they are not, but I may be wrong.
It was there... A bit vague but I'll make it more clear and less ambiguous.
Quote
And also, I must disagree on your comment about never expecting my dwarves to take a scratch. I pride myself on being able to come up with strategies that allow my dwarves to never -have- to take anything, as fun as it might be to the otherwise, and as much as I love the ASCII brutality of DF combat. Winning with clever ingenuity and design is just as dwarven as hacking at their necks with an axe. The current fortress, as said, can deal the orcs off with little to no difficulty, whether by killing them, or simply outlasting them. The Fortress is entirely self-sufficient and protected, a goal I had to start on much earlier than usual.
As clever as you are you're going to take causalities. That's war. If you don't like it I'm sorry but I suggest you take another mod. In World War Two which was supposedly one of the West's greatest triumphs the VICTORIOUS side took over 61 million casualties while the LOSING side only took 11 million. No struggle may be won without loss and sacrifice. And no true struggle has ever been easy. This mod aims to do a good deal of things realistically and war is one of these things. Dwarves must fight all the way down their great halls if they are to keep their vast treasures from falling into the wrong hands. And without careful planning many will die. Even with careful planning their will be causalities. War is bloody. If you want to fight off Sieges with a few conscripted wrestlers with no military experience or equipment and suffer no losses then I'm sorry but this is not the mod for you.
I am happy with the fact that you are providing feedback and constructive criticism but when you say things like "this mod has the potential to be great" or "this mod does not reach its full potential" (As seen on the download page) then that kinda rubs me the wrong way. Don't get me wrong... You are allowed to hate this mod and everything in it. I'm alright with that. However I feel that the mod is good and I believe the silent majority also believe this. And I didn't pour tens... Probably even a hundred or two hours into this mod to just fulfill your expectations. If you would like to tweak the mod, I am fine with that. If you would like to make the tweaks available to the wider community also (I give you my blessing) but I will not accept that the mod is bad or 'doesn't fulfill its potential' because you take issue with it. At the end of the day I did what I thought would complete the dwarf fortress experience (in my eyes) and I thought other people might also enjoy it. It clearly isn't everyone's cup of tea but I wasn't aiming at satisfying the entire community when I made it. So please don't make sweeping statements such as "this mod doesn't fulfill its potential when what you're really trying to say is it doesn't meet your individual expectations. With that said I'm not at all trying to attack you or discourage further criticisms and advice. As I said before... I very much appreciate your input and I take everything into consideration.
PS - I am very much aware that the download page and the main page of this thread look like utter crap. If anyone could suggest a new title page, provide a bit of attractive looking code or reorganize things and message me I'd appreciate it and your efforts will be acknowledged on the page and in the README.
Post by: Akreaveter on June 20, 2009, 11:15:47 pm
Post by: Jwguy on June 21, 2009, 04:11:05 am
That said,
Quote
As clever as you are you're going to take causalities. That's war. If you don't like it I'm sorry but I suggest you take another mod. In World War Two which was supposedly one of the West's greatest triumphs the VICTORIOUS side took over 61 million casualties while the LOSING side only took 11 million. No struggle may be won without loss and sacrifice. And no true struggle has ever been easy. This mod aims to do a good deal of things realistically and war is one of these things. Dwarves must fight all the way down their great halls if they are to keep their vast treasures from falling into the wrong hands. And without careful planning many will die. Even with careful planning their will be causalities. War is bloody. If you want to fight off Sieges with a few conscripted wrestlers with no military experience or equipment and suffer no losses then I'm sorry but this is not the mod for you.
I am happy with the fact that you are providing feedback and constructive criticism but when you say things like "this mod has the potential to be great" or "this mod does not reach its full potential" (As seen on the download page) then that kinda rubs me the wrong way. Don't get me wrong... You are allowed to hate this mod and everything in it. I'm alright with that. However I feel that the mod is good and I believe the silent majority also believe this. And I didn't pour tens... Probably even a hundred or two hours into this mod to just fulfill your expectations. If you would like to tweak the mod, I am fine with that. If you would like to make the tweaks available to the wider community also (I give you my blessing) but I will not accept that the mod is bad or 'doesn't fulfill its potential' because you take issue with it. At the end of the day I did what I thought would complete the dwarf fortress experience (in my eyes) and I thought other people might also enjoy it. It clearly isn't everyone's cup of tea but I wasn't aiming at satisfying the entire community when I made it. So please don't make sweeping statements such as "this mod doesn't fulfill its potential when what you're really trying to say is it doesn't meet your individual expectations. With that said I'm not at all trying to attack you or discourage further criticisms and advice. As I said before... I very much appreciate your input and I take everything into consideration.
On the first issue, I must disagree. I am fully aware of what war is, and the likely consequences and results of it, and while I would not call myself Sin Tzu, I believe I have more knowledge of it than you give me credit for. Even so, I do not blame you, this being the internet where everyone has ten degrees of science in every field, simply because, and everyone is government agents, etc..
But, even in World War II, which I've more often heard of as poorly campaigned and a tragedy than a "Great Triumph", there was always room for improvement on all sides. None of them lived up to their full potential, and none of them were absolutely perfect. To say that it was impossible to come out of the war without any casualties is a logical assumption, based on experience of how wars usually play out, but it is still an assumption. Assumptions rely on guesswork, and if the condition that they bank on is not fulfilled, they are faulty.
Beyond that, you mention that I wanted to "fight off sieges with a few conscripted wrestlers", or seemed to imply such, which I believe comes from your interpretation of my initial post. Believe it or not, my usual method of defending from sieges comes from Ballistae, Bridge/Magma/Water traps (Obsidianization Traps. Like Carbonite, but better and more fun.), Cage traps, and a sleugh of Well-trained Marksdwarves and Hammerdwarves. I mentioned that I was forced to use the conscripted wrestlers, in so many words, because of the sudden siege and the steep climb of the orc numbers year after year. Each time, the fortress survived, albeit with heavy casualties. I don't mind losing dwarves or getting them injured. "Fun" as losing is, I simply like to test myself with coming up with better designed, both functionally and aesthetically, fortresses with an endgame goal to aid my dwarves to a maximum of never -having- to suffer any attack. I'll still send them out to glorious battle every now and then, or accidentally have a noble fall down a well or pit or chasm.
At this point, I have to point out that I really don't -mind- the orc sieges and their exponentially increasing numbers each year, so much as I mind that this, in my humble designation, -significant- change by the mod was not documented much beyond some vague implications that the orcs were strong enough to swarm megabeasts. Simply put, I look at things as I do when I have one of my designers make something. Being a Level designer for a local game company, as well as occasionally an art director, the paperwork is everything; If something is on the paper, and it is in the game: Wonderful. All milestones and expectations are usually met. If something is on the paper and not in the game: Needs work, as we are missing something we need. Likewise, if something is not on the paper, but is in a game: Needs corrections, as this is a bug.
Your mod has none of the second, that I could see, but the orc sieges were along the last. That's rather good, and personally, saying the mod has "The Potential to be very good, but is not quite there, yet" is not so much as bad thing, that I would consider. My expectations, as you say, were built as I read what the mod contained, as were the rest of your players, I'd imagine. I did expect you to cater to them, because you were the one who detailed what I was expecting in the readme, and I can hardly consider myself or anyone at fault for that. I listed my concerns, frustrated admittedly, on what I thought were bugs due to their nonexistant, or maybe unobvious, or even unseen documentation, as well as their extreme differences from normal gameplay. These combined justified my reasoning to comment and rate as I did. Not because I personally just disliked the mod, or because it beat me (Which you could say it technically did, with my 2 healthy dwarves flailing about angrily while the eight bled to death dragging their intestines along the ground.). It really does look good on paper, or perhaps it would be on LCD, for the current scenario, as that is why I picked it up in the first place, and -will- still be playing it, because I will not allow something this trivial to conquer my ability to progress and be better in the facets that I choose to employ. It is simply my concern that such significant changes or implementations should and must be documented. Knowing that you intended them makes me a little easier about the mod, but that still does not change that it seems to be less than adequately able to communicate this outside of gameplay and suprise! Fun!
Once the criteria of a good mod are met, whether that be by documentation improvement, or content improvement, I will certainly change my rating and comment. I do not intend to shoot you down for the admirable attempt, nor for the mod's performance, but I will comment on it's nature opposed to it's presentation.
With all that out of the way, I also must say that I just encountered a caravan with no items, as well, but that is potentially a different scenario than the other reports here, being from a 'Fae' race that I modded in after installing and testing the mod. (I personally love having many civilizations, making the world more diverse and fun. This is especially why I wanted to see Goblins and Orcs both sieging, though I cannot seem to find the goblins, still) They only have a size of '2', which might explain not being able to craft much or anything, though I am not sure.
Post by: The13thRonin on June 21, 2009, 10:27:35 am
I don't need you to change your rating or comment. I guess I just wanted my efforts and work validated.
I will endeavor to provide better documentation in the future and I'll have a serious look into this no-trade-goods bug... It seems like a strange one... I don't think I'm going to be able to find out why it's happening. What animals were 'carrying' the non-existent goods? One immediate alarm-bell that goes off is that I provided new animals which can be loaded with goods (like donkeys) but cannot pull wagons... As such if their is a problem with these animals (like yaks) I might have implemented the wrong tags at some stage and somehow stuffed up their ability to carry objects.
EDIT: WHO DA MAN?
Fixed the trade problem. Needed to add [trADE_CAPACITY:****] to yaks. Seems that the elves and other races were trying to load up the poor creatures but they couldn't take any weight so they came with nothing. I couldn't have solved it without the information you guys provided me, many thanks... I'll release a new version soonish... Within the next few days to fix the problem right up.
Post by: Jwguy on June 21, 2009, 02:18:15 pm
On another note, I have to ask, is Bloodmetal supposed to be smelt-able? I have a "Native Bloodmetal Nugget", it's origins unknown. (I slaughtered a number of sieging orcs the years before, and was widely digging out stone for use in making blocks for the acropolis of my impregnable fortress. A small portion dipped under where I killed them, but there were no floor tiles with "Rough Bloodmetal Cavern Floor" Or similar that I could see. It's also possible I got it from a trade, as I cannot remember clearly, having simply asked for all metallic ores, alcohol, cages, animals, and fish. (I stockpile. Heavily.)
Regardless, the Smelt option for the metal doesn't appear in the Magma Smelter, and I was curious as to whether it was supposed to be so.
Post by: The13thRonin on June 21, 2009, 05:58:04 pm
I am glad as well, and even moreso to hear that any future, similar discussions with others around here will likely be handled just as elegantly.
On another note, I have to ask, is Bloodmetal supposed to be smelt-able? I have a "Native Bloodmetal Nugget", it's origins unknown. (I slaughtered a number of sieging orcs the years before, and was widely digging out stone for use in making blocks for the acropolis of my impregnable fortress. A small portion dipped under where I killed them, but there were no floor tiles with "Rough Bloodmetal Cavern Floor" Or similar that I could see. It's also possible I got it from a trade, as I cannot remember clearly, having simply asked for all metallic ores, alcohol, cages, animals, and fish. (I stockpile. Heavily.)
Regardless, the Smelt option for the metal doesn't appear in the Magma Smelter, and I was curious as to whether it was supposed to be so.
Bloodmetal is working as intended. I just checked it... You can smelt Bloodmetal Bars? Maybe you should go back and double check it?
Orcs are still friendly if you embark on-top of them... At least until the first siege. This problem irks me but I cannot resolve it without adding the baby-snatcher tag which will screw with the orc sieges.
Post by: crash2455 on June 21, 2009, 10:59:27 pm
Post by: abculatter_2 on June 22, 2009, 06:46:56 am
What is the temperature of magma in dorf fortress and is blackmetal magma-proof?
Post by: The13thRonin on June 23, 2009, 03:23:55 am
Two quick questions.
What is the temperature of magma in dorf fortress and is blackmetal magma-proof?
I don't know what the temperature of magma is but Blackmetal SHOULD be magma-proof. If it is not I will need to update it.
Post by: abculatter_2 on June 23, 2009, 03:27:11 am
Two quick questions.
What is the temperature of magma in dorf fortress and is blackmetal magma-proof?
I don't know what the temperature of magma is but Blackmetal SHOULD be magma-proof. If it is not I will need to update it.
It is.
BTW, does anyone know if metal ores have similar heat-resistance as the metal they make?
Post by: IndonesiaWarMinister on June 23, 2009, 04:09:48 am
Two quick questions.
What is the temperature of magma in dorf fortress and is blackmetal magma-proof?
I don't know what the temperature of magma is but Blackmetal SHOULD be magma-proof. If it is not I will need to update it.
It is.
BTW, does anyone know if metal ores have similar heat-resistance as the metal they make?
They do.
Post by: Haedrian on June 23, 2009, 04:59:32 am
Code: [Select]
CREATURE:LLAMA]
[NAME:llama:llamas:llama]
[TILE:'l'][COLOR:7:0:1]
[PETVALUE:200]
[PREFSTRING:long necks]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC][PACK_ANIMAL]
[BENIGN][MEANDERER][PET]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:HOOF][NATURAL]
[SIZE:7]
[ATTACK: MAIN: BYTYPE:STANCE:kick:kicks:1:2:BLUDGEON]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:cria:crias]
[FAT:4]
[DIURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10068]
[LAYERING:150]
[TRADE_CAPACITY:2500]
[MUNDANE]
[MOUNTAIN]
Post by: The13thRonin on June 25, 2009, 05:29:11 pm
I haven't tried this mod yet (though I'm planning to soon) but I have a request for animalsCode: [Select]CREATURE:LLAMA]
[NAME:llama:llamas:llama]
[TILE:'l'][COLOR:7:0:1]
[PETVALUE:200]
[PREFSTRING:long necks]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC][PACK_ANIMAL]
[BENIGN][MEANDERER][PET]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:HOOF][NATURAL]
[SIZE:7]
[ATTACK: MAIN: BYTYPE:STANCE:kick:kicks:1:2:BLUDGEON]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:cria:crias]
[FAT:4]
[DIURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10068]
[LAYERING:150]
[TRADE_CAPACITY:2500]
[MUNDANE]
[MOUNTAIN]
I will put llamas in the new version. It's going along nicely... I want 300+ changes before I release it though... Including everything, even the trade fix.
Post by: nahkh on June 29, 2009, 06:06:12 am
I'm digging deeper...deeper.. dee-oshit too deep!
Post by: Jwguy on July 04, 2009, 11:53:21 pm
I did, however, have a very sad experience happen on the mod. I finally had my first megabeast, only to be effortlessly slain by orcs before it could even move four tiles away from the edge of the map. I had really wanted to actually experience a megabeast, honestly. It did make me realize that the dragons are a bit underpowered, though. They don't have wings, and can't fly, nor do they stand much of a chance against any decently armed squad of dwarves, much less orcs.
I think Orcs should be toned down, or the Megabeasts built way up. After all, they're the rare, ultra powerful beasts that come siege forts all by their lonesome, right? Orcs are commonplace, and happen potentially every season.
Also, I've been replaying the scenario to see if it's possible to save the Dragon. I've noticed that, unless the Dragonfire doesn't cause burning, that the Orcs seem to be immune to burning. Neither they, nor their items (Which are steel in most cases. Wrestlers show up with nothing, however) catch fire. The latter usually understandable, however.
Post by: Organ on July 05, 2009, 02:18:23 pm
I figured out the bloodmetal thing. It was a mistake on my part.Another vote for buffed up megabeasts. Also, nitpick: it's testimonial, not testimony. Besides that, I love this mod.
I did, however, have a very sad experience happen on the mod. I finally had my first megabeast, only to be effortlessly slain by orcs before it could even move four tiles away from the edge of the map. I had really wanted to actually experience a megabeast, honestly. It did make me realize that the dragons are a bit underpowered, though. They don't have wings, and can't fly, nor do they stand much of a chance against any decently armed squad of dwarves, much less orcs.
I think Orcs should be toned down, or the Megabeasts built way up. After all, they're the rare, ultra powerful beasts that come siege forts all by their lonesome, right? Orcs are commonplace, and happen potentially every season.
Also, I've been replaying the scenario to see if it's possible to save the Dragon. I've noticed that, unless the Dragonfire doesn't cause burning, that the Orcs seem to be immune to burning. Neither they, nor their items (Which are steel in most cases. Wrestlers show up with nothing, however) catch fire. The latter usually understandable, however.
Post by: Fortis on July 06, 2009, 11:02:24 am
Post by: Im_Sparks on July 06, 2009, 08:46:55 pm
Dang, those orcs are mean. I just started using this mod, and I got my butt handed to me on a silver platter by the second siege they sent. I was able to outlast the first siege, but the second one overwhelmed me. But it's a fun mod, and quite a challenge.
I nerfed the orcs.
Took away their bows, lowered their genpower, took away winter as an active season, giving my dwarves some serenity(ORK HAET COLD), and took away their NO_PAIN. I took away their plate mail, too.
This should put them on about par with my dorfs.
.AND NOW THIS WTF
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: LordZabujca on July 07, 2009, 05:44:56 am
I'd also like to see some more glass construction options, but I've got the Glass Fort mod for that - there doesn't seem to be any conflicts between the two mods, so it's not really that important.
EDIT: Why do these forum dislike fully uppercase [trade_capacity]? Huh.
EDIT2: Oh, and there's another potential problem - one of my nobles loves deep steel and mandates the construction of deep steel items. Since mithril is kind of unavailable in my location for obvious reasons this is pretty annoying.
Post by: Zekrish on July 08, 2009, 12:42:22 pm
Post by: Jwguy on July 08, 2009, 08:20:40 pm
The fortress that digs deeper. Woot
Post by: The13thRonin on July 08, 2009, 10:18:20 pm
Also I'd like to poll you guys on whether you think the orcs do in-fact need a nerf... Keep in mind I'm thinking like a little nudge... Not a total overhaul. The orcs will never be goblins, they will always be tougher. But maybe they are too tough as of now... There have been a few complaints? Perhaps I should remove some of their active seasons and nerf them a bit? Please let me know in your future posts.
But yeah... I don't know when I'll get time to do that... Need my rest for now... Keep digging deeper friends... I'm glad that so many people have found enjoyment with this mod and I hope you all know that I take much pride in giving back what little I can to our fan-bloody-tastic community. Cheers lads :).
Post by: nahkh on July 10, 2009, 02:25:39 am
Sure, they have my succession fort hunkered down in tattered ruins, and brutally murder everyone who goes outside, ever, but that's part of their appeal. They just need careful handling, 'sall. Makes defending forts actually require effort.
Although the decision of nerfing the orcs should reflect your overall direction with the mod. If you want to simply expand upon vanilla gameplay and keep it accessible to even the newer members of our community, then you probably should nerf the orcs. After all, a careless player could easily lose a fortress to the greenskins. However, if you are gearing this mod more towards seasoned players looking for that extra bit of challenge, then the orcs should stay as they are.
I for one rather enjoy being under constant siege.
Sorry to hear about you being sick and all. I hope you get better.
-Nahkh
PS. Could you update the list of players who Dig Deeper?
Also, I gave you free advertising as I'm using DD with SparkGear 3 (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=37940.0).
Post by: Axeforgebeard on July 10, 2009, 10:36:30 am
Edit: never mind, a bunch just showed up with the dwarven caravan. Hooray!
Post by: Rysith on July 10, 2009, 12:15:36 pm
Also I'd like to poll you guys on whether you think the orcs do in-fact need a nerf... Keep in mind I'm thinking like a little nudge... Not a total overhaul. The orcs will never be goblins, they will always be tougher. But maybe they are too tough as of now... There have been a few complaints? Perhaps I should remove some of their active seasons and nerf them a bit? Please let me know in your future posts.
I, obviously, don't support nerfing orcs :). If they were to be toned down a bit, you might consider raising their trade progress trigger to two, since that's the one that's normally responsible for first-winter orc sieges. It should give newer players (who aren't attracting huge numbers of migrants or producing lots of value right at the start) another few seasons to figure out what they are doing before they show up.
Took away their bows, lowered their genpower, took away winter as an active season, giving my dwarves some serenity(ORK HAET COLD), and took away their NO_PAIN. I took away their plate mail, too.
.AND NOW THIS WTF
You modified the entity file. You are going to need to regenerate the world, and possibly clear out your data files, otherwise you will have offset errors like that.
Post by: abculatter_2 on July 10, 2009, 07:47:32 pm
It should give newer players (who aren't attracting huge numbers of migrants or producing lots of value right at the start) another few seasons to figure out what they are doing before they show up.
Hmmm... what's this button do? Oohh, okay... so, I want this here... that there... you, go do that! Wait... no...I think I'l-
A VILE FORCE OF DARKNESS HAS ARRIVED!
OH SHI-----
Post by: nahkh on July 12, 2009, 03:12:23 pm
Post by: Squeegy on July 12, 2009, 07:59:42 pm
Post by: zarmazarma on July 13, 2009, 12:24:08 am
*Twitch twitch* I died the first seige. So many bows... So many bows...
Post by: Meanmelter on July 13, 2009, 07:49:08 am
Post by: Akreaveter on July 13, 2009, 08:40:18 am
Post by: nahkh on July 13, 2009, 12:11:12 pm
Post by: Meanmelter on July 13, 2009, 02:01:16 pm
i did delete the object folder in raw and i had nothing in obj folder in data (as i have no f'king idea why its there)
and i extracted the dig deeper raw file so that it made a new obj file in raw
then i extracted the data one and overwrited
i allso added some tilesets and graphics for it
could anyone tell me what i do wrong?
Post by: The13thRonin on July 13, 2009, 04:48:42 pm
uhh,im having a problem,when i click dwarf fort alli get is a black screen with the music. and the intro.
i did delete the object folder in raw and i had nothing in obj folder in data (as i have no f'king idea why its there)
and i extracted the dig deeper raw file so that it made a new obj file in raw
then i extracted the data one and overwrited
i allso added some tilesets and graphics for it
could anyone tell me what i do wrong?
It's a problem with the tile-set you're using. Have you changed the INIT file to accommodate it?
Post by: Squeegy on July 13, 2009, 06:26:49 pm
Post by: nahkh on July 13, 2009, 06:38:49 pm
Post by: Meanmelter on July 13, 2009, 09:33:33 pm
uhh,im having a problem,when i click dwarf fort alli get is a black screen with the music. and the intro.
i did delete the object folder in raw and i had nothing in obj folder in data (as i have no f'king idea why its there)
and i extracted the dig deeper raw file so that it made a new obj file in raw
then i extracted the data one and overwrited
i allso added some tilesets and graphics for it
could anyone tell me what i do wrong?
It's a problem with the tile-set you're using. Have you changed the INIT file to accommodate it?
i did,i think it has a problem with .PNG or is it just mayday tileset randomglitch
Post by: nahkh on July 14, 2009, 12:34:45 am
Post by: Heron TSG on July 14, 2009, 12:38:05 am
EDIT: done and posted.
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3842/digdeeperitsgroovy.png)
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7137/digdeeperordietrying.png)
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7137/digdeeperordietrying.png)
Post by: Meanmelter on July 14, 2009, 10:04:48 am
upload/post your init.txt? (in spoiler tags please)where do i do that?
Post by: nahkh on July 14, 2009, 03:00:35 pm
Post by: Meanmelter on July 14, 2009, 03:26:07 pm
click that radioactivity-button when making a new reply, then copypaste the contents of your init.txt between the tags.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Devast on July 14, 2009, 10:19:49 pm
Post by: nahkh on July 15, 2009, 01:56:07 am
I assume you want to you the the Mayday tileset? In which case you should either set [GRAPHICS:YES]. That argh.bmp should probably also be pointing to some tileset, no?
Post by: Meanmelter on July 15, 2009, 11:15:38 am
Meanmelter:
I assume you want to you the the Mayday tileset? In which case you should either set [GRAPHICS:YES]. That argh.bmp should probably also be pointing to some tileset, no?
yahh i renamed a tileset for a test and it still didnt work,it appears i can only play with curses one
and yes,id like to use the mayday tileset,if not,then ill use another.
Post by: SimRobert2001 on July 15, 2009, 11:32:50 am
and i think that the orcs SHOULD be tamed, but only by about a quarter of their current strength. Keep them stronger than goblins. i just had 6 dwarves wiped out by a single orc, stopped only by a marksdwarf, who was only able to win BECAUSE he was mauling 6 dwarves.
Post by: nahkh on July 15, 2009, 11:43:25 am
Post by: Kruniac on July 15, 2009, 01:19:15 pm
I love a godlike challenge. I am obsessed with the "Survival" aspect of DF. I don't wall myself up, I don't build excessive traps (Just enough to force attrition on the enemy so my soldiers can fight with more effectiveness), and I don't find losing to be anything other than carnage (Fun).
That having been said, the Orcs in this mod (and ESPECIALLY the original Orcs mod) are just retarded in design. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to have the traits they do, other than to make them stupidly difficult.
I'm not talking about their sieging rates, or the NOPAIN. Even the NOFEAR is kind of neat.
....This is what I'm saying is absolutely retarded.
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:6:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
No one can justify that amount of damage from a punch. No one. They do NOT have fists that weigh 50 pounds. They do NOT have limbs that enable them to do the same amount of bludgeoning damage that a demon does with a bite. There is no reason whatsoever for the damage on their unarmed attacks to be 1:6 other than to make them "super".
Its pointless.
Even the 1:3 Gore damage on the bite is a little off, but I'll give them that. Maybe they have horrible fangs. Maybe they have powerful jaws. Maybe they are that savage. Seeing as how the bites will really only come into play if they have no arms, I don't really care.
No, its the [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:6:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
that makes these Orcs not only absurd, but even a bit enraging. I've lost forts to GOBLIN ambushes before (Extreme wealth+Goblins=Massive Ambushes), so I really don't mind losing a fort to a horde of Orcs. I do, however, mind losing a fort to what amounts to a squad of megabeasts, which they aren't supposed to be.
All whining aside, I've changed my orcs to
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
This makes them like any REASONABLE creature, and not an unbelievable twink race meant only to commit unrealistic carnage.
Also, TRAPAVOID? Since when? Are they psychic? No? Roguish? Sneaky? No? Sounds like an excuse to make them obscene yet again. Removed.
NOPAIN? Great. Berserker Orcs. That kicks ass.
NOFEAR? Awesome. Maybe they are devoted to their Gods, and do not fear death.
LOCKPICKER? There's that absurd notion that Orcs are sneaky or roguish in the least. They arent. Gone.
I would argue about an 850 RAW speed, but I won't. They are just faster than dwarves. Nothing wrong there.
I'm not bitching at the maker of this mod so much as this mod broke the camel's back in terms of what I can stand about the Orc mod. I had to vent. This mod rules in so many ways, I can't list them all. I'm especially looking forward to the new creatures (Vampires! OH GOD) as well as the new crops (Potato Vodka=Win). However, the Orcs were/are/will be totally uncalled for with that amount of damage (From a punch, no less) and need to be gimped.
Thanks for making this great mod. :)
Post by: The13thRonin on July 15, 2009, 04:57:21 pm
The trapavoid assumes that they're so freaking tough and bloodthirsty that they pretty much can just smash through any cage/stonetrap/whatever in there way to get to their target (mainly this is to prevent player exploit such as hallways full of cage traps but if you can manage to control yourself then remove it and go nuts). Lockpicker is a workaround because I don't think it's very orcly for an orc siege to be stopped by a wooden door. However if I give them building destroy they will target buildings BEFORE engaging any dwarves in the area which I also think is very unorcly.
Post by: nahkh on July 15, 2009, 05:13:15 pm
And having played against Ender goblins, these orcs are nothing.
No point in getting all butthurt about orcish behavior, if they bother you a moat stops em just fine. (unlike ender goblins, holy hell those guys)
Post by: Kruniac on July 15, 2009, 06:06:01 pm
Quote
The punch only comes into play with orc wrestlers...
That is half of the Orcs I encounter.
Quote
I feel that it's realistic because DAMAGE is dependent on SIZE and orcs are much smaller than demons.
Orcs are size 8. Titans are size 20 and do 1:2 bludgeon with a punch.
Quote
Many creatures have some form of 1:6 damage
...Not with a PUNCH. With a bite, claw, fire punch, sure. Not with a fist.
Quote
the orc 'punch' is meant to represent all close quarter attacks including: ripping at the throat, headbutting, stomping enemies while they're down. What it comes down to is orcs are STRONG and BRUTAL and when bloodthirsty and enraged in melee combat they're going to be a biach to take down.
Every race is assumed to perform those attacks in "wrestling". It represents savage beating, twisting, stomping, etc. There is no reason for orcs to do three times as much damage as a human being in a fist fight. You could just give them a claw attack instead, if you want horror.
Quote
The trapavoid assumes that they're so freaking tough and bloodthirsty that they pretty much can just smash through any cage/stonetrap/whatever in there way to get to their target
But that can't happen. Smashing through a cage? Sure. "Smashing" through boulders falling on you? That doesn't even make sense.
...I'll bet orcs will just "Smash" through 10 blades hissing at them from the nearby wall. Just smash through those 10 steel blades. Yep.
..No.
Quote
Lockpicker is a workaround because I don't think it's very orcly for an orc siege to be stopped by a wooden door. However if I give them building destroy they will target buildings BEFORE engaging any dwarves in the area which I also think is very unorcly.
You're right. Its best to give them LOCKPICKER instead of destroyer so that they don't zerg for the nearest building when they should be zerging at a dwarf. I take back what I said.
Quote
In summary: Players exploit the fuck out of the game anyway, orcs needed more dakka for balance.
Balance is the opposite of Dwarf Fortress. :P
Quote
No point in getting all butthurt about orcish behavior, if they bother you a moat stops em just fine.
It isn't "Orcish" to have 1:6 bludgeon damage on a fist. Its "stupid". I never mind getting slapped around by powerful creatures, so long as they are somewhat believable.
Like instead of saying "Oh god, Orcs! Those guys are going to fight to the death..." its more like "Oh god, Orcs! ...They punch as hard as most creatures bite.. wait..."
Yeah. Makes little sense. Like I said before, I just went off because this mod in particular is really awesome, and while orcs are great for it, THESE orcs ruin the "feel" of the mod with absurdly high unarmed damage.
I have potatoes, pigs, new metals, and basically a more "real" feel to DF. Since I changed my orcs, I have everything I need.
I went down to 3 population just now in my fortress, two of which bedridden. Thanks to a sheriff who beat people to death, and an Orc attack, we almost got wiped.
I zerged the invaders with 33 untrained wrestlers, eventually wiping them out at the cost of my population. If I would have kept the retarded orc RAW file, we would have died 12139832 times over, because those bastards punch as hard as most creatures bite.
So we have two situations here.
1 - Realistically swarming over larger creatures with superior numbers and more than a little booze for courage, eventually winning against said larger creatures despite them having armor and weapons (And a boatload of wrestlers).
2 - Keeping the original orcs, sending 40 dwarves against them, and watching your ENTIRE army get massacred because they can two shot you with a punch.
Which one is more "realistic", and fitting? Yeah.
Anyway, I wasn't bitching at THIS mod in particular, or even the original Orc mod, just bitching in general. Naturally, my install of DF is tweaked the way I want it, like everyone elses. My orcs have 1:2 punch damage, no TRAPAVOID (and I'll put LOCKPICKER back in, since it makes more sense). Your stock orcs are Shaolin monks who obviously don't get enough of a bonus for being two sizes larger than dwarves (damage bonus there), don't get enough of the "savage" and "brutal" feel out of having NOPAIN and NOFEAR, and generally are smaller megabeasts.
Whatever your play style is.
Post by: SimRobert2001 on July 15, 2009, 06:45:11 pm
Post by: Kruniac on July 15, 2009, 07:30:14 pm
and lets not forget, the carp damaged is quite bugged. toady himself said that he made them too strong, and is going to tone them down in the future.
...I hate carp. XD
Post by: nahkh on July 16, 2009, 01:56:05 am
Here's video (http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1532-hellchains-firstsiege).
Maybe the difference is that I had the sense to give my dwarves weapons and shields?
Also, didn't The13thRonin just say that damage depends on size, not just the damage modifiers?
Ie. Demons with damage 1:6 do more damage than orcs with 1:6 because they are bigger. So titans with 1:2 and size 20 could do more actual damage than orcs even though orcs have bigger damage modifiers?
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I zerged the invaders with 33 untrained wrestlers, eventually wiping them out at the cost of my population. If I would have kept the retarded orc RAW file, we would have died 12139832 times over, because those bastards punch as hard as most creatures bite.... If you wonder why you get (and should get) massacred if you charge a siege of seasoned fighters with peasants then I have nothing to say. Trying to attack a superior force with untrained militia and then complaining that you got everyone killed? What gives?
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But that can't happen. Smashing through a cage? Sure. "Smashing" through boulders falling on you? That doesn't even make sense.I give you that. It doesn't make sense. But here's why I think it should stay on:
...I'll bet orcs will just "Smash" through 10 blades hissing at them from the nearby wall. Just smash through those 10 steel blades. Yep.
..No.
Currently the AI is really, really stupid. If there is a path, they will charge through it. No matter if noone has ever come back alive from that corridor, or if they just watched their mates get sliced to pieces by glass serrated disks. Giving orcs trapavoid forces players to rely on something other than the oh-so-exploitable trap corridors. Sure, you could play without relying on trap corridors. And sure, you can still make exploitable traps like water-filled corridors and the like. But part of the appeal of this mod is that it forces players to rethink DF strategy. If a corridor lined with traps no longer keeps you safe, and you no longer can swarm invaders with untrained wrestlers, the game gets a whole new kind of urgency. Now there is actually a reason to build intricate defenses.
[THREAD HIJACKED FOR FLAMEWAR PURPOSES]
Post by: Blargityblarg on July 16, 2009, 02:13:17 am
This might be a good alternative to [LOCKPICKER], is all.
Post by: Meanmelter on July 16, 2009, 08:48:47 am
Post by: Deon on July 16, 2009, 09:31:33 am
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They do NOT have limbs that enable them to do the same amount of bludgeoning damage that a demon does with a bite.This is TOTALLY wrong. Look again in the damage formula and show me where is it even close to the demon damage? I agree that orcs are tough but their damage is much smaller and is easily compensated by charge or berserk state of a dwarf according to a damage formula.
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So titans with 1:2 and size 20 could do more actual damage than orcs even though orcs have bigger damage modifiers?Sorry what? Orcs have SMALLER damage modifiers. It's basically 1d6 divided by some factors and clean 8 and 1d2 divided by some factors and clean 20. What's bigger, (8+d6) or (20+d2)? It's a very inaccurate and obstract counting, but it gives you the main picture.
I hate how people argue about things when they do not look in actual formulas :).
P.S. Actually 1d6 makes their attack to depend on their skill more, which makes sense. If they had 1d2 or 1d3 they'd hit like horses/cows (which have too low damage IMO, horsekick should be deadly in most cases to an unarmored person).
Post by: nahkh on July 16, 2009, 10:32:21 am
I was making the same point you just made.
What I referred to as "damage modifiers" was the dice range (ie, the pair of numbers 1 and 6). Perhaps a bit of a misnomer but my meaning should've been clear from the context (not that that's an excuse for poor communication). And by actual damage I meant the result of the damage formula.
What you referred to as damage modifiers I would've called base damage, or maybe damage bonus.
tl;dr: You misunderstood me, we agree on the basic principles.
Post by: Megaman on July 16, 2009, 06:17:29 pm
Post by: Meanmelter on July 16, 2009, 08:07:54 pm
Post by: Ancient Thingy on July 17, 2009, 04:00:55 pm
Post by: Vorago on July 18, 2009, 11:56:11 am
I'll admit I'm a sucker for hidiously complex death traps
Friggin fisherdwarf was nine miles away when they came and got cut off sadly, but the rest of the orcs (Save the few that broke off to violate the fisherdwarf with arrows) promptly drowned leaving me giant piles of stuff, glee!
Gotta say, really loving this so far, awesome work =D
Nnever really dealt with nobles yet so sort of worried about 'em, hordes of ravenous orcs are one thing, but damn whiny nobles gonna be the death of me I fear
Post by: Kruniac on July 18, 2009, 01:55:10 pm
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Hmm, I still haven't seen the absurdly high damage that you claim. I kicked the butt of an orc siege (mostly wrestlers) with a largely untrained army, this being the spring of the second year. I lost one dwarf our of sixteen. One dwarf.
It's not absurdly high damage. Its absurdly high base damage for a fist. Titans, for instance, have 1:2 damage with their fist. Size modifies it, but that has nothing to do with the fact that an unarmed attack for a "normal" fist is 1:2.
Giving orcs 1:6 implies that they have "special" fists or something.
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Also, didn't The13thRonin just say that damage depends on size, not just the damage modifiers?
Ie. Demons with damage 1:6 do more damage than orcs with 1:6 because they are bigger. So titans with 1:2 and size 20 could do more actual damage than orcs even though orcs have bigger damage modifiers?
I know damage depends on size. However, the BASE damage for an attack is based on the type of thing used. IE, a snakeman bites for 1:6. A normal creature's fist (A grasping hand used for an unarmed attack) does 1:2. Right now, orcs have "Snakemen bite attack" fists.
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... If you wonder why you get (and should get) massacred if you charge a siege of seasoned fighters with peasants then I have nothing to say. Trying to attack a superior force with untrained militia and then complaining that you got everyone killed? What gives?
I'm not complaining that everyone died. I'm saying that everyone died, except for three people, which was actually rather badass. My point was that if I would have left the broken orc base damage in, we would have been slaughtered utterly.
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Currently the AI is really, really stupid. If there is a path, they will charge through it. No matter if noone has ever come back alive from that corridor, or if they just watched their mates get sliced to pieces by glass serrated disks. Giving orcs trapavoid forces players to rely on something other than the oh-so-exploitable trap corridors. Sure, you could play without relying on trap corridors. And sure, you can still make exploitable traps like water-filled corridors and the like. But part of the appeal of this mod is that it forces players to rethink DF strategy. If a corridor lined with traps no longer keeps you safe, and you no longer can swarm invaders with untrained wrestlers, the game gets a whole new kind of urgency. Now there is actually a reason to build intricate defenses.
The answer to this problem is simple. If a player wishes to exploit the retarded AI and build 3298734 traps, then that player shouldn't complain about it being "too easy". On the other hand, someone who builds a moderate amount of traps tactically shouldn't have to be "forced" to rethink a strategy.
I'll take realism over gameplay any day of the week, to any extreme.
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P.S. Actually 1d6 makes their attack to depend on their skill more, which makes sense. If they had 1d2 or 1d3 they'd hit like horses/cows (which have too low damage IMO, horsekick should be deadly in most cases to an unarmored person).
So a goblin does 1:2, a human does 1:2, a titan does 1:2, and an orc does 1:6. Does this mean that your typical orc is a monk? Some kind of martial arts guy? Maybe they wear leather gloves with lead shot in them at all times? They have adamantium knuckles?
Also, consider that horses DO kick excessively hard in this game, because of their size modifier. 1:2 damage is acceptable when you factor in size bonuses for ANY creature. Giving orcs a 1:6 fist damage is basically giving them a claw attack that does bludgeoning. That wouldn't be a bad thing if it wouldnt try to get passed off as a "Fist attack", or swept under the rug with cries of "Its challenging".
It's unrealistic, that's all.
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Anyway, if it's too hard for you mod the orcs and shut up.
I did mod the orcs to the standard 1:2 bludgeon damage for a creature with a normally shaped fist. Their size modifier will increase that to a realistic level, and any levels of Wrestling will further increase that.
...And it was never "too hard" for me. I played with the original orc mod, which stupidly had their damage at 4:8 (Which was obscene). Nothing is "too hard" is Dwarf Fortress, just "realistic and acceptable" or "gamey nonsense that detracts from ambient flavor". Orcs with NOPAIN, NOFEAR (Possibly NOSTUN), 1:2 Bludgeoning, LOCKPICKER, all seasons active, iron weapons of doom, those are "realistic and acceptable".
Orcs with fists that do the same base damage as the fanged maw of a snakeman for "more challenge" would be classified as "gamey nonsense...".
Hell, for extra challenge I've modded the Orcs to be size 14 and called them "Hordebeasts". Nomadic giants that raid for survival and generally wipe out settlements. They hit HARD, they have HUGE weapons...
...
...
...And they still only do 1:2 base damage with a fist.
Post by: The13thRonin on July 18, 2009, 07:30:06 pm
A Dwarf does [ATTACK:1:1:GORE] whereas a Blizzard Man does [ATTACK:1:4:GORE] and an Ice Wolf does [ATTACK:1:6:GORE].
Logically we can infer that different creatures would do different amounts of damage regardless of size. Not all kicks or bites or punches are equally painful. And it is this assumption that led to our current carp over-damage problem. A fish should not be able to bite as hard as a wolf.
We can also infer that getting punched by this:
(http://images-2.redbubble.net/img/art/backgroundcolor:000000/size:large/view:main/995064-2-half-orc-warrior.jpg)
is going to hurt a lot, lot more than getting punched by this:
(http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=26134&t=1).
Orcs are a race of warriors bred for little other than fighting, pillaging and conquering. They have a brute strength, rage and barbarity in combat that is not present in the other races.
I'm sorry but it seems that you do not have a very broad knowledge of the RAWS or the damage formula. Orcs are not overpowered and if I was going to lower anything it would definitely not be their damage.
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I did mod the orcs to the standard 1:2 bludgeon damage for a creature with a normally shaped fist
There is no such thing as a standard fist just as there is no such thing as a standard jaw, hence the discrepancies in bite damage. Just because every creature has fists, muscles and arms do not mean that every creature's is the same... The dainty elves if anything should do much less wrestling damage, something I will be fixing in future updates.
Instead of expecting the mod to change around you perhaps you should attempt to change your tactics. 'Zerg rushing' opponents with untrained militia generally has never been a good idea in history...
See the Battle of Thermopylae where Greek forces inflicted casualties 20 to 40 times greater (depending on who you ask) on the enemy than that of which they took. Although there are countless examples in history. Look at the casualties Russia took in both World Wars. You can try to 'zerg' your opponents but I intend to make it so that if you do this even if you win it will be a Pyrrhic victory. This is intended.
Post by: Kruniac on July 19, 2009, 10:10:27 am
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Logically we can infer that different creatures would do different amounts of damage regardless of size. Not all kicks or bites or punches are equally painful.
Right. I agree. Creatures with horrible, tearing teeth tend to do more base damage than say, a dwarf.
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We can also infer that getting punched by this:
Except that example shows an orcish type figure with a metal katar-ish type gauntlet. Orcs don't do more base damage because of a peice of equipment. In fact, Orc wrestlers are naked.
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Orcs are a race of warriors bred for little other than fighting, pillaging and conquering. They have a brute strength, rage and barbarity in combat that is not present in the other races.
Yeah. Hence NOPAIN, NOFEAR. An unstoppable savage horde who brings themselves to a frenzy before charging a fortress, etc, etc.
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I'm sorry but it seems that you do not have a very broad knowledge of the RAWS or the damage formula. Orcs are not overpowered and if I was going to lower anything it would definitely not be their damage.
Orcs arent overpowered, they are UNREALISTIC. Overpowered would be making them size 70 just for damage modifiers. Unrealistic is making a standard grasp-limb attack do three times as much damage as every other five fingered fist o' doom in the game.
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There is no such thing as a standard fist just as there is no such thing as a standard jaw, hence the discrepancies in bite damage. Just because every creature has fists, muscles and arms do not mean that every creature's is the same... The dainty elves if anything should do much less wrestling damage, something I will be fixing in future updates.
No. Now you are stepping into the realm of bone density and other abstract concepts for explaining base damage, and if that's the case, then creatures such as Titans would have massive base damage potential. Getting hit with a fist the size of a door with a thickness and weight akin to a stone isn't 1:2 damage. However, according to the raws, it is.
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Instead of expecting the mod to change around you perhaps you should attempt to change your tactics. 'Zerg rushing' opponents with untrained militia....
I really shouldn't have to say this more than once. I don't care how "difficult" the orcs are. I care how logical and realistic they are. To sum up the problem, and the reason I shared my "zerg" experience..
...Orcs should not two shot anything with a punch. Four Orc Wrestlers have absolutely no logical reason to obliterate 50 "unarmed peasant rabble scum worthless booboo blah blah". They would realistically get overwhelmed and savaged to death. These are NOT giants, these are size (if I remember correctly) 9 savage creatures, who seemingly (without me modding my files) have kung fu training. Either that or their fists are made of obsidian. Rofl.
Post by: nahkh on July 19, 2009, 10:43:49 am
Orcs arent overpowered, they are UNREALISTIC.
Oh yes. Because Dwarf Fortress is otherwise totally realistic. Nope, brewers don't need water, nevermind the skeletal elephants or other fantastic creatures. Those are completely realistic. But oh no! Perceived discrepancy between abstract stats in raws! CALL THE NATIONAL GUARD!
Post by: Pyrophoricity on July 19, 2009, 12:04:55 pm
Secondly, The13thRonin I am very much a big fan of your Mod, its the first one besides Rysith's that I've stuck with for more than a fortress or two. Also thanks to this mod for the first time in a ages I've actually had some close calls in fortress mode and enjoyable experience and one I am thankful for no end.
That in mind I ask of you good sir "Add Me!"
Post by: The13thRonin on July 19, 2009, 12:36:52 pm
I really want to release some critical fixes (AKA - current trading bug) and I will do ASAP but this week I literally have had NO TIME AT ALL to do so... I'm being taxed very hard by school and haven't gotten any sleep for at least three days... (Grr...)
I will resume working on the mod ASAP.
Post by: Kruniac on July 19, 2009, 06:32:28 pm
Orcs arent overpowered, they are UNREALISTIC.
Oh yes. Because Dwarf Fortress is otherwise totally realistic. Nope, brewers don't need water, nevermind the skeletal elephants or other fantastic creatures. Those are completely realistic. But oh no! Perceived discrepancy between abstract stats in raws! CALL THE NATIONAL GUARD!
Skeletal elephants are realistic for the game setting. Orcs with power fists are not.
And as for the brewer issue - you just pulled an unimplemented problem out to describe what you believe to be an example of WAD unrealism. Lawl.
Post by: Meanmelter on July 19, 2009, 08:36:45 pm
now,i don't know how many TRAINED dogs it takes to take them down,so prob not a good idea,unless you have a mass shitload of cougars to launch at em
Post by: doomender on July 19, 2009, 09:15:40 pm
I can edit that out, but just so you know.
Post by: mission0 on July 20, 2009, 02:54:27 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on July 21, 2009, 09:08:54 am
A lot of bug-fixes, some tweaks and about 25-35 new additions... Dig in guys ;).
Post by: nahkh on July 21, 2009, 10:34:55 am
... is there a changelog available?
Post by: The13thRonin on July 21, 2009, 04:54:22 pm
Sweet!
... is there a changelog available?
New README's in spoilers on the front page.
Post by: Phazer on July 22, 2009, 05:31:25 am
EDIT: deleting 1 Variscite in the objects folder solved it. i removed EVERYTHING before i installed so i dont think it had to do with that
Post by: The13thRonin on July 22, 2009, 08:36:27 am
Recently tried this mod and it turned itself on when i used find location, i checked the errorlog and it said i had 2 on VARISCITE and i will try if that solved it unless its supposed not to be able to use Find.
EDIT: deleting 1 Variscite in the objects folder solved it. i removed EVERYTHING before i installed so i dont think it had to do with that
Thanks for finding that bug... I'll fix it right up and release another version tomorrow. Good thing I have such a conscientious group of people using the mod! Without your feedback I wouldn't be able to provide stable releases for you guys :).
Post by: Ryusho on July 22, 2009, 09:29:13 pm
Post by: SimRobert2001 on July 22, 2009, 10:51:37 pm
Quick question, is it a bug that orcs can avoid EVERY SINGLE TRAP I make, or are they just that darn agile and able to spot the triggers.....
its intended. they have the trap avoid tag.
Post by: Ryusho on July 22, 2009, 11:12:38 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on July 23, 2009, 01:48:12 am
alright...I might need to mod that for my game play then..because It is impossible for me to survive at all against the orcs, since the most I can do is basically get a champion wrestler or two, without armor or anything then here comes 15-20 orcs..when I only have 20-30 people..and they can kill my champions in less then a second each.
Good to see that they're working as intended.
Post by: Phazer on July 23, 2009, 10:21:15 am
alright...I might need to mod that for my game play then..because It is impossible for me to survive at all against the orcs, since the most I can do is basically get a champion wrestler or two, without armor or anything then here comes 15-20 orcs..when I only have 20-30 people..and they can kill my champions in less then a second each.
isnt it self-explaining that 20 orcs kill 2 dwarf without armor or weapons.
and why you can do that to goblins is because they flee when their leader dies and dont fight back anymore.
just get some archers to give cover, armor and weapons to the melee guys and use good tactics and you should get away with no casualties
Post by: Ignem on July 23, 2009, 02:58:38 pm
Strike the Adamantine? (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=39256.0) (Link goes to another thread)
Post by: Shrike on July 23, 2009, 06:54:58 pm
For those having problems with orcs, you can have them appear later on by changing their PROCESS_TRIGGER flags. 5 is the latest, which happens after you have the king, which would generally imply a mature fortress, but for the aforementioned adamantine exposure.
Post by: personofshadow on July 23, 2009, 07:30:47 pm
Post by: Phazer on July 23, 2009, 08:07:27 pm
I'm not entirely certain, but it feels like its taking my plants longer than usual to grow. Is this intentional or my imagination or something else?
doubled growth rate so its harder to farm
Post by: personofshadow on July 23, 2009, 08:09:47 pm
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on July 23, 2009, 08:16:17 pm
Post by: Phazer on July 24, 2009, 07:37:27 am
Ah, well thats bothersome, maybe a kittenspolsion meat industry
well its not really a problem anyway you just need more farmland which do more sense. Fishing is not necceserily the best option. Farming is safer and if you have enough land to farm on and farmers you get more than enough, and fish cant be turned into brews.
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on July 24, 2009, 01:32:26 pm
True you cant make fish beer, but I EASILY get more then enough fish with only 1 good fisher, and fishing is easier to set up.Ah, well thats bothersome, maybe a kittenspolsion meat industry
well its not really a problem anyway you just need more farmland which do more sense. Fishing is not necceserily the best option. Farming is safer and if you have enough land to farm on and farmers you get more than enough, and fish cant be turned into brews.
Post by: Ryusho on July 24, 2009, 01:35:49 pm
alright...I might need to mod that for my game play then..because It is impossible for me to survive at all against the orcs, since the most I can do is basically get a champion wrestler or two, without armor or anything then here comes 15-20 orcs..when I only have 20-30 people..and they can kill my champions in less then a second each.
isnt it self-explaining that 20 orcs kill 2 dwarf without armor or weapons.
and why you can do that to goblins is because they flee when their leader dies and dont fight back anymore.
just get some archers to give cover, armor and weapons to the melee guys and use good tactics and you should get away with no casualties
I know they didn't have any armor, and whatnot...The problem is, They are attacking normally before I can even FIND the metal for armor in most of these locations, even though it is flux heavy, one time I went like..3 z levels using exploritory mining, and when they arrived like the above scenario....The only thing I had EVER found was talc, and LOTS OF IT...I mean this place was nothing but damned talc it seems for EVERY VEIN..>.<
Post by: Phazer on July 24, 2009, 01:47:20 pm
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on July 24, 2009, 02:00:25 pm
if its too hard just remove trapavoid in raws or use atom smashers..(bridges)Bridges>everything
Post by: The13thRonin on July 24, 2009, 06:21:51 pm
if its too hard just remove trapavoid in raws or use atom smashers..(bridges)Bridges>everything
Don't exploit things >:(! Tempt my hand and I shall give those orcs wings so they can fly right over your bridges.
About the adamantine problem. I think you guys are just being extremely lucky as I have not changed adamantine BUT I have done a number of tweaks and removed a heap of bugs which should set it back to its normal level if I did do something, which is probably a material item duplication that I removed (I hope).
DWARF FORTRESS V1.2B IS NOW UP!
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on July 24, 2009, 07:02:08 pm
Well youif its too hard just remove trapavoid in raws or use atom smashers..(bridges)Bridges>everything
Don't exploit things >:(! Tempt my hand and I shall give those orcs wings so they can fly right over your bridges.
Anyway shucks... I was just getting a good fortress in the current version, what are the changes in the new one?
Post by: nahkh on July 24, 2009, 07:25:05 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on July 25, 2009, 02:33:30 am
Well youif its too hard just remove trapavoid in raws or use atom smashers..(bridges)Bridges>everything
Don't exploit things >:(! Tempt my hand and I shall give those orcs wings so they can fly right over your bridges.couldSHOULD add a orcish flying mount if possible.
Anyway shucks... I was just getting a good fortress in the current version, what are the changes in the new one?
Just fixed some entity duplications that were causing weird stuff to happen.
Post by: The13thRonin on July 26, 2009, 06:49:41 pm
I will be updating the main page soon and I need screenshots of interesting Dig Deeper things happening, can you guys upload some of your best screens to imageshack and send me the links?
Post by: Dante on July 26, 2009, 07:43:51 pm
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- Roughly doubled growth rate of all plants
That's meant to be roughly halved growth rate or roughly doubled growth time, right?
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on July 26, 2009, 11:05:56 pm
As a matter of fact no difficulty either, everyone is estatic and I have 8 multi-legendary champions.
Post by: mission0 on July 26, 2009, 11:43:48 pm
This is like the 3rd or 4th year of my current fortress and no orcs.
As a matter of fact no difficulty either, everyone is estatic and I have 8 multi-legendary champions.
Do they not have access to your site or something?
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on July 26, 2009, 11:52:49 pm
Im sure they do, but nothing. What? Are they too good for my fortress? I have 79 dwarves and 2740 exported wealth and 153818 imported wealth.This is like the 3rd or 4th year of my current fortress and no orcs.
As a matter of fact no difficulty either, everyone is estatic and I have 8 multi-legendary champions.
Do they not have access to your site or something?
Post by: Arathanar on July 27, 2009, 05:11:02 pm
Also:
playerswhodigdeeper[playerswhodigdeeper.length + 1] = Arathanar.
Sure you'll get null pointer exceptions, but we've got something called Deepsteel. That's all that really matters.
Post by: The13thRonin on July 27, 2009, 11:32:24 pm
Page TWO?!? Blasphemy!
Also:
playerswhodigdeeper[playerswhodigdeeper.length + 1] = Arathanar.
Sure you'll get null pointer exceptions, but we've got something called Deepsteel. That's all that really matters.
Null pointer exceptions?
Post by: Phazer on July 28, 2009, 07:21:03 am
Post by: The13thRonin on July 28, 2009, 08:01:24 am
About Flying mounts on orcs, i saw that in Dark dwarves mod were orcs rode on dragons or maybe it was another mod, anyway that bugged it all up as the orcs just stood still at the edge of the screen and didnt attack not even when my dwarves were under them. dont know if this has to do with the mounts agressiveness but had to tell you that it may dont go well.
I believe flying mounts SIEGERS including MEGABEASTS are bugged. The reason why Toady has crippled the ability of Dragons to actually use their wings for flight.
Post by: Arathanar on July 28, 2009, 05:28:40 pm
Page TWO?!? Blasphemy!
Also:
playerswhodigdeeper[playerswhodigdeeper.length + 1] = Arathanar.
Sure you'll get null pointer exceptions, but we've got something called Deepsteel. That's all that really matters.
Null pointer exceptions?
Poorly executed Java joke. Add me to the "Players who play dwarf fortress" list, I mean.
Post by: Meanmelter on July 28, 2009, 05:29:14 pm
if dragons could fly,they could destroy the entire fort. no matter what you haveAbout Flying mounts on orcs, i saw that in Dark dwarves mod were orcs rode on dragons or maybe it was another mod, anyway that bugged it all up as the orcs just stood still at the edge of the screen and didnt attack not even when my dwarves were under them. dont know if this has to do with the mounts agressiveness but had to tell you that it may dont go well.
I believe flying mounts SIEGERS including MEGABEASTS are bugged. The reason why Toady has crippled the ability of Dragons to actually use their wings for flight.
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on July 28, 2009, 06:53:00 pm
Not if you have colapse traps.if dragons could fly,they could destroy the entire fort. no matter what you haveAbout Flying mounts on orcs, i saw that in Dark dwarves mod were orcs rode on dragons or maybe it was another mod, anyway that bugged it all up as the orcs just stood still at the edge of the screen and didnt attack not even when my dwarves were under them. dont know if this has to do with the mounts agressiveness but had to tell you that it may dont go well.
I believe flying mounts SIEGERS including MEGABEASTS are bugged. The reason why Toady has crippled the ability of Dragons to actually use their wings for flight.
Post by: Shrike on July 28, 2009, 07:48:48 pm
Or a single marksdwarf.Not if you have colapse traps.if dragons could fly,they could destroy the entire fort. no matter what you haveAbout Flying mounts on orcs, i saw that in Dark dwarves mod were orcs rode on dragons or maybe it was another mod, anyway that bugged it all up as the orcs just stood still at the edge of the screen and didnt attack not even when my dwarves were under them. dont know if this has to do with the mounts agressiveness but had to tell you that it may dont go well.
I believe flying mounts SIEGERS including MEGABEASTS are bugged. The reason why Toady has crippled the ability of Dragons to actually use their wings for flight.
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on July 28, 2009, 08:05:14 pm
Colapse traps are easier to get a hold of though.Or a single marksdwarf.Not if you have colapse traps.if dragons could fly,they could destroy the entire fort. no matter what you haveAbout Flying mounts on orcs, i saw that in Dark dwarves mod were orcs rode on dragons or maybe it was another mod, anyway that bugged it all up as the orcs just stood still at the edge of the screen and didnt attack not even when my dwarves were under them. dont know if this has to do with the mounts agressiveness but had to tell you that it may dont go well.
I believe flying mounts SIEGERS including MEGABEASTS are bugged. The reason why Toady has crippled the ability of Dragons to actually use their wings for flight.
Post by: Deon on July 29, 2009, 04:47:21 am
I usually play my own mods but here on work I have a very crappy computer. I mean really. 8 mb videocard and 256 RAM are DF killers.
However your mod adds much less races and probably there's something else happening (probably I've added too many entities for this PC to handle well), and it's a good thing. I've found that I get better FPS with your mod, I mean it's playable and mine is not.
So I gave it a go, and it's really nice. Ol'good DF with stuff.
I've noticed that a variety of food doesn't cause a perfomance impact, so if you're interested there's "TYE (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19760.0)" mod of mine you can use (it adds a lot of different food types). I thought that it would go along the lines pretty nicely, with all new toys and instruments.
Post by: The13thRonin on July 29, 2009, 07:24:23 am
+ Deon
I usually play my own mods but here on work I have a very crappy computer. I mean really. 8 mb videocard and 256 RAM are DF killers.
However your mod adds much less races and probably there's something else happening (probably I've added too many entities for this PC to handle well), and it's a good thing. I've found that I get better FPS with your mod, I mean it's playable and mine is not.
So I gave it a go, and it's really nice. Ol'good DF with stuff.
I've noticed that a variety of food doesn't cause a perfomance impact, so if you're interested there's "TYE (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19760.0)" mod of mine you can use (it adds a lot of different food types). I thought that it would go along the lines pretty nicely, with all new toys and instruments.
Thanks Deon, and I would just like it noted that I very much like your mod and very much think it is playable. I think you have done great things and I can't wait to sample your future work (under the new raws system).
Post by: Deon on July 29, 2009, 07:59:37 am
By unblayable I meant that it's 3-5 fps on average for my mod and 10-12 for yours, so I play yours (and enjoy it) :).
Post by: Meanmelter on July 29, 2009, 09:00:12 am
good things happen to good people ^____________________________^
Post by: The13thRonin on August 03, 2009, 10:32:10 pm
Also I NEED screen-shots of the mod in action! Come on people, do me proud ;D.
And thanks again jarathor for your amazing art! See it on the front page.
Post by: Meanmelter on August 04, 2009, 11:52:06 am
Post by: Lyrax on August 04, 2009, 01:23:56 pm
As a side note, I always change half the subterranean creatures to [PET] and [COMMON_DOMESTIC] and even add the [trAINABLE] tag to them. Why?
1) It gives me something to look forward to. When I'm filthy rich, I can afford a whole army of war giant spiders! Muahahah!
2) I think it adds to the verisimilitude, since the only civs able to access these creatures will be subterranean ones. I mean, I ought to have giant moles or subterranean rats as pets if I'm the dwarves!
3) It's way cooler than dwarves with horses and mules and naught else.
Anyways, I'm going to mod your mod with my mod because I like it. I thought I'd suggest it as a change to the whole thing, since it takes so little work for a big payoff.
Post by: eviscerator on August 06, 2009, 05:09:08 am
Also, three questions:
1)
2)Would it be possible to simply lower trap damage (halve it?) and increase the likelihood of jamming so that orcs wouldn't need trap avoid? (I like traps since it gives purpose to my glass works)
3)
Poor orcs, what must they have thought, when suddenly the pond next to them dried up with a sucking sound. Next, a strange staircase jutted up in the middle of the pond, and soon the dwarves began a mysterious construction dozen feet above the ground. A strange stone walkway was built towards them; maybe the stupid dwarves would fall off to be eaten! Then a peasant grabbed a crossbow...
Ok, they siege in spring too?? The last siege just left, this is year two, I have sixteen dwarves and THIRTY+ orcs showed up.... too bad I had decided to build a walled above ground passage to the tower - stupid masons built the walls second. <--- I meant HAD 16 dwarves....didn't even kill one orc I don't think either.
Post by: j0nas on August 06, 2009, 06:45:23 pm
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980 leads me to http://dffd.wimbli.com/download.php?id=980&f=Dwarf%20Fortress%20-%20Dig%20Deeper.rar, which does not work.
Edit: The same link now works, 5 minutes later. I blame wizards and dragons.
Post by: Deon on August 06, 2009, 07:36:16 pm
Post by: Tanase on August 07, 2009, 12:34:45 pm
Post by: Phelix on August 07, 2009, 01:15:47 pm
Post by: skaltum on August 08, 2009, 07:23:41 am
Post by: Tyrius on August 08, 2009, 04:34:42 pm
To green slimes.
They just oozed in and killed everyone... there's bits of blood and beard plastered to the walls with the very slime that killed them...
All that remains is the heavily armed and uninjured trade caravan, sat in my Trade Depot, cleaning the slime out of their beards and watching my mechanic (the last survivor) bleed to death, and complaining that there's no-one to trade with.
I LOVE THIS MOD
Post by: nahkh on August 08, 2009, 04:43:41 pm
There comes a time in every DF player's life when building fortresses becomes routine. Once you've run a few fortresses it's so easy to repeat the old, familiar, winning patterns time after time. Only when something goes wrong are you forced to innovate. For a careful player like myself, things hardly ever go wrong. Until I tried this mod. And for that I wish to thank you.
Thank you for bringing the excitement back into my fortresses. Thank you for making them go wonderfully, wonderfully wrong. Thank you for forcing me to think outside the box.
As an aside, DD was also a significant factor in making SparkGear 3 as epic as it was. I am in your debt for that as well.
Post by: The13thRonin on August 08, 2009, 07:13:01 pm
As an aside, DD was also a significant factor in making SparkGear 3 as epic as it was. I am in your debt for that as well.
I am so happy that I was able to contribute in some small way to the epic-ness that is Sparkgear. I'm still not totally through the story (still reading) but it is by far my favorite succession fortress and EVERYONE should go read it right now.
Post by: meowmix on August 08, 2009, 11:34:07 pm
the download only gave me the folders
Data- only Speech folder inside theres nothing else. since the instructions say that im supposed to be overwriting the data folder id think there would be more files in the download right?
Raw
and Thumbs.db
when i put these things in the appropriate places nothing in the game changes when i start up the game and make a new fortress. Theres nothing but the same stone and metal and creatures as far as i can see.
Post by: The13thRonin on August 08, 2009, 11:42:31 pm
i tried downloading this but im having some difficulty installing it. is the data folder only supposed to have the speech folder inside? cause theres nothing in there besides that one speech folder
the download only gave me the folders
Data- only Speech folder inside theres nothing else. since the instructions say that im supposed to be overwriting the data folder id think there would be more files in the download right?
Raw
and Thumbs.db
when i put these things in the appropriate places nothing in the game changes when i start up the game and make a new fortress. Theres nothing but the same stone and metal and creatures as far as i can see.
Yeah the data folder is only meant to have the speech stuff in there. Thumbs.db should not be in the package??? :-X
Make sure you DELETE your previous RAWS folder and replace the empty spot it leaves with the DIG DEEPER RAWS folder.
The base game is unchanged but you should notice a variety of new objects that you can purchase on the EMBARK screen that'll let you know the mod is working. Check for the various instruments and creature leather?
Post by: meowmix on August 09, 2009, 12:51:00 am
Post by: The13thRonin on August 10, 2009, 12:28:18 am
ahh yes thx that worked but my 2nd question is how do i get access to the new metals and stone that you modded in other than from the embark screen i used a revealer to look at the layout but i dont see anything cept the original stones. or can i only get them from trading
You should find everything intermediately placed within your world. For example foraging will give you many of the new plants and you will find the woods growing all over the place. The minerals will be tucked away under the Earth and you'll have to mine for them.
In other news we are up to:
* Additions - 418
* Changes - 48
So minor work on the next release has already begun! As a small preview most of my work has been centered around even more new plants, dyes and extracts!
Wild Strawberries for instance will now be mill-able into a strawberry colored dye!
I'm thinking for this release I will start overhauling existing systems within the mod whilst still attempting to bring new and exciting additions to the already large amount of additions.
If someone could do a FPS based check comparing my mod to vanilla Dwarf Fortress that would be great! I'm 90% sure my mod doesn't drop performance (due to only introducing one WORLD SPANNING menace [the orcs] while everything else is computed only when actually relevant to the world [aka - onscreen]) but I'd like to know for sure.
I'm STILL eagerly awaiting some screenshots of the mod in action so I can begin to spruce up the main page which still looks like a rank pile of dog-meat :'(.
Also on the agenda... Throw your ideas at me... I need more ideas to implement! Ideas are the lifeblood of this mod! Help me keep in afloat.
Other than that... KEEP DIGGING DEEPER ;D!
Post by: nahkh on August 10, 2009, 01:05:34 am
Post by: The13thRonin on August 10, 2009, 06:32:02 am
More varied demon types? I'm sure they could use some variety.
Like some kind of Demon Spoon? :P
Post by: Deon on August 10, 2009, 06:51:39 am
Seriously, I was going to start a new fort with someone's else mod to rest from my mods.
As I told you, the beginning was cool. It's too laggy to play at work, but I will have a time to play at home today and I will give you my feedback. I hope I find an interesting starting location.
Post by: Phazer on August 10, 2009, 07:24:34 am
Post by: Deon on August 10, 2009, 11:55:40 am
Post by: Meanmelter on August 10, 2009, 01:00:45 pm
Post by: Deon on August 10, 2009, 01:16:28 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dwarf on August 10, 2009, 01:35:10 pm
Post by: Deon on August 10, 2009, 03:58:45 pm
Post by: eviscerator on August 10, 2009, 05:19:36 pm
Also, it could use a smelter reaction for patterned steel from steel bars.
Personally, I think metals in DF could use a revaluing; silver should definately be worth more, and no metal should be cheaper than ultra-common obsidian.
Post by: TigerPlushie on August 10, 2009, 05:37:08 pm
Post by: Meanmelter on August 10, 2009, 07:16:16 pm
but i learned to NEVER ATTEMPT TO JAIL THEM,they managed to kill a peasant without any armor or weapon...
those things are like DAEMONS!
but now i have a very very sudden erdge to see what would win,a spirit of fire,or a Boworc...
Post by: meowmix on August 10, 2009, 10:15:25 pm
I mean like since economy, magma smelters and stuff seem to work under this activate on something happened thing i just want to make sure that sieges and invasions are gona happen cause if they arnt im just gona start a new fortress.
Post by: Deon on August 10, 2009, 10:48:35 pm
Post by: meowmix on August 10, 2009, 11:47:06 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on August 11, 2009, 12:23:13 am
Why dont you add some more prepared meals,EVERY mod i download,not many people add them,add stuff like pizza,cookies,goulash,pancakes,salads,sandwich.
Dude there's more than 10 new meals added including pizza, salads and sandwiches...? Are they not working? I must go and check this phenomenon.
Quote from: Meanmelter
i took out trapavoid on the Orcs as they are a unbelievable dog slaughter-domestic-hating-super-killing-squad. (takes about 12-18 war dogs to obliterate 1)
but i learned to NEVER ATTEMPT TO JAIL THEM,they managed to kill a peasant without any armor or weapon...
those things are like DAEMONS!
You can do what you like with them but they're meant to be murderous, rampant killing machines. Compared to a human an orc is a grave, grave menace and compared to a puny dwarf which a single orc bred for KILLING towers over... They could rip your Urist's arms off and beat him to death with them!! I didn't feel it was appropriate for these slaughter machines to all be killed by a corridor filled with traps (huge exploit) which is what people would and will do if trap-avoid is removed. Considering they have no ability to tunnel and can be stopped by a 1 tile wide ditch I believe they deserve the ability to smash through puny dwarven contraptions in their fell rage. Yes dwarves will die... By the droves... Welcome to war... Casualties are with this mod a part of life. The good thing is there will always be more unsuspecting migrants ;).
Quote from: eviscerator
Is there a reason bismuth bronze isn't as good as regular bronze in this mod? It's poorer for armor (75% vs. 111%) and isn't worth as much either.
Also, it could use a smelter reaction for patterned steel from steel bars.
Personally, I think metals in DF could use a revaluing; silver should definately be worth more, and no metal should be cheaper than ultra-common obsidian.
Sounds like I overlooked tweaking Bismuth Bronze. Good pick-up. I'll look into it and see if I can thrash out exactly why that particular irregularity is hanging around. Thank you very much! I appreciate it when people scrutinize the mod in this manner as I am only one man and not perfect and I require feedback to recognize areas that need tweaking :).
Quote from: meowmix
well ive let the game run for like 4 -5 hours after i activated invasions and i got nothing except for like 1 goblin thief event.
also if there is a newer version of this mod would i be able to put a save game from an older version and play it on the newer one or would i have to start a new game.
Always best to gen a fresh world upon upgrading to a newer version of the mod. Otherwise you won't get all the features. Also I don't recommend messing with the init file and turning things like invasions off and on because I'm pretty sure it does something screwy with the orc AI and declaring war on civilizations and such.
Quote from: TigerPlushie
This is going to be interesting. My first dwarves were overrun by giant termite guys. Those guys do tear apart civis pretty nice. Now i finally got a reason to avoid savage territory for a while
Good to see those guys are working as intended! I find different players have different 'threats'. One player seems to be plagued with malignant green slimes! Giant termites definitely should be nasty though... Those things are just crazy, crazy bad-ass :D.
Post by: Rose on August 11, 2009, 12:52:31 am
they managed to kill a baby donkey before getting wiped out.
and my military consisted of 2 archers.
what am I doing wrong?
Post by: The13thRonin on August 11, 2009, 01:04:23 am
well, I have to say, I got my first orc invasion with this mod (also my first invasion ever on a prepared fort) and I was sorely disappointed.
they managed to kill a baby donkey before getting wiped out.
and my military consisted of 2 archers.
what am I doing wrong?
How many orcs were there and how did you manage to wipe them out so easily?
The great thing about the orcs is that every time you beat them they will regroup and come at you even harder next season. Sometimes you will be able to pick them off using ditches and archers but most of the time they will keep you inside, stuffing up your farming endeavors, preventing supplies from getting to you and killing migrants (aka - what a real siege does). You however raise an interesting point about the archers thing being too easy...
I am tempted to either (or possibly both):
- Retard the effectiveness of dwarven crossbows (or crossbows in general).
- Scrap underground farming and force dwarves to farm above ground.
I will continue thinking upon this problem until I reach a satisfactorily painful conclusion.
PS - I may also look into flying/web shooting/door smashing/amphibious mounts for the orcs so that they can more appropriately **** you up.
Post by: Rose on August 11, 2009, 01:24:04 am
I think the problem was that the orcs had no archers with them.
Post by: TigerPlushie on August 12, 2009, 05:06:18 am
I'd like to know if i stand a chance to see the outside world again soon.
Post by: martinuzz on August 12, 2009, 09:01:43 am
Expands greatly upon vanilla DF, without losing the theme, at least for me.
Just arrived in spring 2nd year, first orc siege. Luckily no boworcs, so I'm sniping em away from towers until they are thinned out enough to meet my 6 naked champion wrestlers hehe.. We'll see how that goes.
This is my luckiest game ever I think.. Had my first 2 fey moods.. Produced me a legendary armorer (also my expedition leader), AND a legendary weaponsmith.
The orcs should be careful I think hehehe.
I took out autumn as active season for the orcs.. I value my dwarven caravan too much, for the rest I left them as you made em.. I don't think they're overpowered really.
Thanks for the nice mod, keep up the good work :)
EDIT: just gave one of my champion wrestlers the artefact mace that produced my legendary weaponsmith and sent him and the other 5 wrestlers out to meet the remaining 8 orcs.
Carnage ensued. The orcs lost.. No dwarf was seriously injured during these events..
Post by: The13thRonin on August 12, 2009, 10:54:45 am
Still slowly progressing:
* Additions - 424
* Changes - 50
One more addition and the mod will have reached 50 changes and 425 additions to the base game... A significant alteration by any stretch of the imagination. I think Dig Deeper is really beginning to have a significant impact upon the average game-world... The systems still need tweaking but I am pleased with the effects so far!
Continue reporting oddities and sending your feed-back :D. And congratulations and thanks is in order to everyone who made this possible. And by that I mean YOU the players of Dig Deeper :). Without your input and encouragement none of this would have been possible. So pat-on-the-backs all round ;D!
Post by: abculatter_2 on August 12, 2009, 06:17:52 pm
The Titanium Titan.
Or make it just a normal monster and name it a Titanium Golem.
Post by: martinuzz on August 13, 2009, 08:21:34 am
I read someone had troubles with goblins showing up.. Well, I've had snatchers, had an ambush of them, and now, after beating back 4 orc sieges, goblins decide to siege.
Great fun indeed hehe. I'll let em past my recently finished Orc-meet-rock-bottom trap and introduce them to my (still naked) wrestlers.
My population is at 100 dwarves now, deathcount 10, all of those died in the 2nd orc siege. A Master Boworc came and sniped most of my archers right through my fortifications. 3 of the dead were babies, used as shield by my naked wrestlers. I saw babies flying everywhere :o
Baron arrived a while ago and started making reasonably absurd demands. Can't complain, really ;D
Some suggestions.. It seems you still haven't pimped megabeasts enough for them to survive worldgen properly.. Stopped at the year 300 (as it usually also does in Vanilla DF). Maybe you can consider adding some more size and damblock to them.
Also, I would be happy with with dwarves being grumpier.. I don't even have a royal dining room, only a legendary one, and they're still quite happy, despite having slept on the floor or outside for 3 years. I don't know if there are any other tags than the [MODESTY] tag mentioned that control this..?
The Orcs are about fine.. You need tactics and preparation to counter their sieges.. However, I find they still fall rather quickly against champion wrestlers.. Consider changing [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON] to [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:1:BLUDGEON]. for dwarves.. Wrestlers are overpowered anyway.
I think your mod is really, really nice, yet I wouldn't mind some more difficulty even, and I hope my suggestions might help achieve that. :)
One thing strikes me as odd: I used the sitefinder to get a site with a magma pool, but I haven't found it yet.. But then again, it could start deeper. I'm used to magma pools being near or at the surface of completely flat maps like this one I play now.. Ill let you know if I find it or not. (I never use reveal.exe or similar functions)
Post by: The13thRonin on August 14, 2009, 05:00:45 am
* Changes - 55
Progress storms ahead! I'm definitely on track for the next release. I've got over half of what I wanted in so far...
PS - Anyone have any suggestions for a new metal? I've been wracking my brains and I just can't come up with anymore metals...
Post by: Deon on August 14, 2009, 05:21:01 am
PS - Anyone have any suggestions for a new metal? I've been wracking my brains and I just can't come up with anymore metals...Black Metal, Death Metal, Gothic Rock?
Post by: Saeldanya on August 14, 2009, 06:14:08 am
Some suggestions.. It seems you still haven't pimped megabeasts enough for them to survive worldgen properly.. Stopped at the year 300 (as it usually also does in Vanilla DF). Maybe you can consider adding some more size and damblock to them.
I noticed a greatly increased megabeast survivability compared to vanilla. Maybe it was coincidence, but I set worldgen to start checking megabeast population in the year 100, and I reached the year 288 until 80% of them were dead.
But I actually wanted to chime in to express my love for this mod. The orcs are a welcome source of steel, I built my entry corridor with 3 retractable bridges and a pit underneath. Then my marksdwarves snipe them to death while they are trapped in the pit. ;D
The difficulty seems 'just right' for me as an experienced, but by no means expert player who was bored with the lack of challenge in vanilla.
I have one big and one small beef... I'm not sure if it is directly related to the mod, or if there is some other issue. However, compared to vanilla and Civilization Forge I noticed a MASSIVE increase in crashes, crashes during saves, and fubared savegames that cannot be loaded again (runtime error). The crashes during saving are the most common, and I started saving very often (so I only have to replay the last 20 minutes if necessary) and making regular copies of the savefile. That's my big beef.
My small beef is that orcs refuse to starve to death while trapped in a pit for several months :P The siegers in Civilization Forge died off after awhile without food, and I got used to that. Would be realistic, no?
Suggestions for a new metal: A lightweight metal that can be made into clothing. Kind of a more common, less valuable and less protective version of adamantine.
Keep up the great work! 8)
Post by: eviscerator on August 14, 2009, 08:41:02 am
* Additions - 451
* Changes - 55
Progress storms ahead! I'm definitely on track for the next release. I've got over half of what I wanted in so far...
PS - Anyone have any suggestions for a new metal? I've been wracking my brains and I just can't come up with anymore metals...
Irridium, Osmium, etc as rare small cluster metals. They are of the platinum group metals. Also, you could make extra ore types, such as a silver-free galena that veins in sedimentary rocks.
edit: Also, tungsten, maganese, magnesium, new alloys like nickel-steel and stainless steal (18% chromium)
and new ores like copper-nickel chalcopyrite seams.
What wouuld be neat would be if one could have a reaction that made, say, 50 bolt-tips from lead, and another that made 50 shafts from wood, which would then be combined into wooden bolts tipped with leaden heads, for extra damage. Or just add glass bolts into the game...
I don't think nerfing crossbows is the way to go. Unfortunately, if you want tough orcs they need some vulnerability, otherwise you can't have 16 show up the first year before you have a military. It is about all one can do to build a storage area and a moat + drawbridge by the first summer. Making crossbows ineffective will just make the mod unplayable in the early seasons for most players.
I think some of this will be solved when Toady makes it so siegers can bring ropes and ladders, battering rams, etc.
Either that or figure out a way for orcs to bring an engineer guy who can build bridges and deconstruct walls...
Post by: The13thRonin on August 14, 2009, 11:29:39 am
I have one big and one small beef... I'm not sure if it is directly related to the mod, or if there is some other issue. However, compared to vanilla and Civilization Forge I noticed a MASSIVE increase in crashes, crashes during saves, and fubared savegames that cannot be loaded again (runtime error). The crashes during saving are the most common, and I started saving very often (so I only have to replay the last 20 minutes if necessary) and making regular copies of the savefile. That's my big beef.
My small beef is that orcs refuse to starve to death while trapped in a pit for several months :P The siegers in Civilization Forge died off after awhile without food, and I got used to that. Would be realistic, no?
Damn, damn and double damn!
The orcs should require food and drink (I don't know why they'd be any different to goblin siegers in that way.
As for the crashes :'(. Is anyone else having this problem? I wasn't aware of ANY crashing with the mod. This is a major problem and I will have to stress test Dwarf Fortress Dig Deeper to find the source of the crashing if it really is a major problem. I am sorry that this impairs your experience with the mod :(. I want it to be stable for you.
Please answer the following questions:
What version of Dig Deeper are you running with what version of Dwarf Fortress?
Do you have an error-log? If so please upload or post it so I can take a look.
Do you have a save file right before a crash (preferably a recurring crash)? If so please upload it so I can take a look.
Did you notice anything unusual before your crashes? Was their a common factor present before the crashes/save corruptions? Did you notice any Dig Deeper items present that may have been causing the corruption.
What runtime error are you getting? It should have a numerical code that should help me isolate the problem. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!
What are your system specs? How much RAM do you have? What kind of processor? Do you have a graphics card? All that kind of stuff... Are you overclocking your processor?
Quote from: eviscerator
I don't think nerfing crossbows is the way to go. Unfortunately, if you want tough orcs they need some vulnerability, otherwise you can't have 16 show up the first year before you have a military. It is about all one can do to build a storage area and a moat + drawbridge by the first summer. Making crossbows ineffective will just make the mod unplayable in the early seasons for most players.
Good point... I'll have to find a way around this... I'm thinking on it.
Quote from: Deon
It looks like you're fond of numbers.
Only when they lead to more fun and variety for the community!
PS - I would like to use this opportunity to thank Toady One for his great game. Without his great work I would have nothing to spend my free time on :). So take your thanks and send Toady One messages or better yet donations! I enjoy praise from the community but it is ill-deserved. I have done nothing special.
Anyone else experiencing the crashing?? Anyone?? Please answer yes or no and state your observations if yes.
Post by: Samus1111111 on August 14, 2009, 12:01:42 pm
I'm not experiencing any crashing
P.S. Please Add Me
Post by: Saeldanya on August 14, 2009, 01:20:33 pm
In the end, about 25% of the time when I saved the game, that crashed it. Usually during the actual save process, reload then went back to the last save before it. Sometimes it crashed during 'cleaning game objects' after saving, and in that case I could reload fine. I had the impression that the longer I played before the next save-and-quit, the greater the chance of a savecrash when I do save.
I'm a bit of a tech doofus and haven't paid any attention to the exact error message. I'll play a couple hours starting now, with the last playable copy of an older save I made (2 seasons earlier) and take note of the exact error codes. I don't have a savefile of right before a crash, but I'm sure it will happen again during new saves with the loadable copy of 2 seasons before. I'm going to post the info on version number etc once I've had a chance to play and sleep :)
Post by: Phazer on August 14, 2009, 01:30:22 pm
Imbued Iron?
i'll tell you if i come up with more metals and if someone already said those metals, it would be that i havent seen the post.
Post by: abculatter_2 on August 14, 2009, 02:43:45 pm
Maybe make it possible to make blackmetal by pouring water on magma somehow?
Post by: martinuzz on August 14, 2009, 06:37:08 pm
(http://file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Phelix on August 14, 2009, 06:40:09 pm
1st: Skeletal Wyvern & Zombie Wyvern (thatll show me for starting in a terrifying mountain range)
2nd (Reclaim of first fortress): Orc Horde killed a good number of my reclaimers (despite them being combat dwarves) and rest of fortress tantrum spiraled
3rd: Lost it too an orc siege before in the first fall... thatll show me for building in non-terrifying areas near the orc hordes (the only mountain ranges on my world is A) Terrifying Mountain Range, and B) An orc infested area.... no other mountain ranges....)
4th: Terrifying location near where my first one was (just southeast of it) so far so good (no undead so far or other dangerous things)
Fun... but very hard mod
Post by: Saeldanya on August 14, 2009, 06:51:30 pm
However, I grabbed the data from what happens when I try to load the fubared newer save, the one 2 seasons after the earlier copy I use to play now. I can't tell what kind of Runtime Error I get from it, it doesn't tell me beyond 'the application has requested blahblah'. This is the windows error info, I hope it's what you are looking for:
AppName: dwarf fortress.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: msvcr90.dll
ModVer: 9.0.21022.8 Offset: 0005bb47
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I use the latest version of Dig Deeper on a 40d DF folder, the one that comes integrated with the Mayday tileset and is downloadable from Mike Mayday's site. I also use a small part of RantingRodent's graphics pack with it, just for the orcs, and I recently added the Zoo Mod graphics pack (not any actual other mod elements, just tilesets) for the llamas etc. I'll dig up more system info after I've gotten a chance to play a bit longer :P Where should I upload any saves? Also, should I upload the whole game folder I use with all game and mod files in it, or just the save? Do you want the fubared save or the earlier one that crashes new saves 25% of the time?
Post by: 3 on August 14, 2009, 07:26:07 pm
I attempted a challenge fortress in a desert biome. Due to a lack of created wealth and goods to trade, by spring of the second year my population had grown by approximately zero. I hadn't built any defenses full stop (who does at that point?).
"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
I'm outnumbered at least 3:1 by orc raiders. They rush in and kill everything.
Reload backup. Now, I'm not normally one for that sort of thing, but the situation struck me as so out-of-the-blue that I decided I probably deserved another try.
I build floodgates and connect them to a lever.
"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
Close gates. Build a few rows of stone-fall traps (I'm not normally one for trap abuse either, but I still feel that the situation demanded it because, let's face it, I hadn't a hope in hell). Open gates. Orcs run straight across the traps without activating any of them, rush in, and kill everything.
Open raws. Remove [trAPAVOID] tag from creature_orc.txt. Delete data/objects. Reload backup. Build and link gates. Close gates. Build traps. Open gates.
"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
Orcs run straight into the traps, get hit, keep running, and kill everything.
Reload backup. Build and link gates. Close gates. Build about twelve rows of traps. Open gates.
"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
Orcs run into traps, and after a while, bleed to death. Victoly!
(literally) Ten minutes later...
"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
SIXTY-odd orcs, all riding beak dogs, and lead by at least two master warriors.
Now, while the situation I'm talking about here is very much in the extreme, there's something in particular that bugs me about this: it's not that the orcs attacked me almost immediately (that could easily have been due to me embarking too close to one of their fortresses), nor the orcs being really bloody strong (that's how they should be). It's the [trAPAVOID] you gave them. As far as I see it, giving a race that is not remotely canny/tech-savvy/stealthy, let alone one that almost entirely ignores fear and pain, trapavoid strikes me as a bit silly. It's almost as if the orcs have been designed on the basis that they should be incredibly strong as opposed to actually acting like orcs.
The flip side of the argument is, of course, that [trAPAVOID] stops players from abusing the trap system, and puts the focus on military. Well, what about those players who use it legitimately? I'm of the school of thought that traps have a place in fortress defense, alongside militant dwarfs.
Alright, I'll put it to you like this: there's no logical reason why the orcs should have the trapavoid tag other than to stop players from overly relying on traps. But in a sandbox-esque game like dwarf fortress, user choice is paramount - and fortress defense is one of those choices. Stopping players from using features isn't going to win anything, because it stops players who use traps legitimately from using them (and therefore makes the mod unnecessarily difficult, and shallower), and stops the players who abuse the traps system from playing altogether.
I'm aware that this post is pretty negative, and I have to say that I really like all of the additions in the mod... other than trapdodging orcs, of course.
Post by: Phelix on August 14, 2009, 10:24:49 pm
It's almost as if the orcs have been designed on the basis that they should be incredibly strong as opposed to actually acting like orcs.
Clearly they're Uruk-hai
On another note Orcs show up too early...... I mean I ALWAYS get a siege before my first year is finished.... even if Im nowhere near the orc territory.... I just got one in early winter of my first year.... so I retracted my drawbridge only too learn that I made my drawbridge RETRACTABLE instead of raising.... so I had too lock all my minature doors (and subsequently build walls behind them in case they somehow get door destroying beasts) and now Im stuck and the orcs are just hanging outside and I cant leave.... guess Ill just have too hope the elves/humans/dwarf caravans/dwarf migrants can slowly kill them all.....
or live the rest of my dwarfy life underground since I have no nobles who will kill dwarves for not making adamantite items when theres no adamantite.
Hey.... so guess who just found adamantite! and demons.... lots of demons.... was lucky that I only lost one miner too them before I got the damned hole sealed.....
Post by: abculatter_2 on August 15, 2009, 01:47:32 am
Just dig a ditch or some other form of barrier before the first winter and you should be good.
Modding the mod is also an option.
Post by: The13thRonin on August 15, 2009, 03:09:37 am
And they have trap-avoid for a realistic reason. They're not super-sneaky just super-strong and when enraged feel no pain. As such while they're charging through your trap corridor they just bash into, break and smash everything in their path taking negligible damage. You have to remember that they're a towering race of creatures BRED for combat. Don't think Goblins when I say Orcs. Think big, angry, wanting to rip your face off trolls... Now multiply the intelligence and agility of a troll by about x5 and you have the Orcs. And yes they will try to **** you up all the time from the first year. They're not for the faint of heart. They are real siegers who will require sacrifices in blood and steel to fight off.
Trap-avoid will eventually be removed when the orcs have grappling hooks, battering rams, the ability to tunnel and advanced AI that will ignore stupid unrealistic corridors filled with traps.
Saeldanya... I need your specs...
Post by: Saeldanya on August 15, 2009, 03:44:07 am
Saeldanya... I need your specs...
Ok, here's my tech doofus attempt at trying to guess which specs matter :-[
The whole system is a Dell computer, I havent overclocked or done anything at all to it other than install / uninstall stuff. It's a Dell Dimension 9150 ViiV PD 930 processor Dual Core (3.00 GHZ, 800FSB, 2x2MB)
OS: Windows XP Home
Graphics Card: 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 7300LE
RAM: 2048MB Dual Channel DDR2 533MHz (2x 1024) Memory
320GB (2x 160GB) 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive - Dual HDD Config - Raid 0 Stripe
If anything is missing, let me know!
When I didn't get any crashes with vanilla and Civilization Forge, I was actually playing with a slightly older version of DF - the one that comes with the afteractionreporter.com Newbie tutorial. I upgraded to 40d at the same time as I started with Dig Deeper. I'll start playing one of the other mods as well with 40d and see if I get savecrashes after a couple fortress years.
Post by: Saeldanya on August 15, 2009, 12:25:45 pm
AppName: dwarf fortress.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0 ModName: ntdll.dll
ModVer: 5.1.2600.5755 Offset: 00011689
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: martinuzz on August 15, 2009, 01:46:35 pm
Really. The second the last goblin sieger dies, a new siege appears, now it's orcs.
Almost as if they're using military tactics. Send the cannonfodder first, and then, here comes the cavalry.
I never knew you could have 2 sieges in 1 season. Nice indeed.
Luckily They appear on the other side of the map than where my military was mobbing up the last goblins, or I'm sure I would have taken some losses. No more deathcount from the orcs.
A goblin ambush party killed my legendary weaponsmith though >:(
Shortly afterwards, my legendary metalcrafter survived 3 hammerstrikes, only to be killed by the 4th. I am starting to like my Duke.
Time to finish the royal palace and bring in the King. I'm looking forward to more hammerings.
Post by: Electro on August 15, 2009, 05:27:30 pm
i got some points though
1: Crashes, whenever i save theres a chance the game will crash. I had a crash during the autosave when reaching a new site even.
Vista, SP1, Core2Duo 2.4ghz, 2gig ram.
Mike Maydays 40d11 with DD1.2b-
2: the thing you said about removing underground farming, i'd personally say thats straying a bit too far away from the game, but thats my opinion. IF you add it, please make it so the players can easily change it back.
3: I'm trying to add in a little reaction i found in another post, but it wont work. Probably just me beeing stupid but i put this:
Code: [Select]
[REACTION:PROSPECT]
[NAME:prospect]
[REAGENT:1:STONE:NO_SUBTYPE:STONE:NO_MATGLOSS]
[PRODUCT:6:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[PRODUCT:4:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:COPPER]
[PRODUCT:3:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:GOLD]
[PRODUCT:2:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ALUMINUM]
[PRODUCT:2:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:PLATINUM]
[PRODUCT:1:1:THREAD:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ADAMANTINE]
[FUEL]into my reaction_standard.txt. Then regen a whole new world, embark, build a smelter and all im seeing is "melt a metal object"
what am i doing wrong?
4: yeah please add me, also playing this so far very nice mod!
Post by: 3 on August 15, 2009, 05:28:59 pm
Post by: Electro on August 15, 2009, 05:31:34 pm
Post by: abculatter_2 on August 15, 2009, 05:46:41 pm
Maybe make it possible to make blackmetal by pouring water on magma somehow?possible.
Take away the [LAVA] (http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Matgloss_tokens#Stone-specific_tokens) tag from obsidian and make a different kind of obsidian called "poured obsidian" or something which is exactly the same (maybe increase it's value to 4 or 5) but can be turned into blackmetal nuggets in the smelter at the cost of several pieces of poured obsidian.
You could also make native blackmetal more difficult to refine somehow, or make it rarer.
Post by: Electro on August 15, 2009, 06:35:32 pm
Post by: abculatter_2 on August 15, 2009, 06:39:52 pm
just noted something, Keybindings will not save between sessions. know anything about that?
When you set them, you have to press the "save" button.
Post by: Saeldanya on August 15, 2009, 07:03:40 pm
1: Crashes, whenever i save theres a chance the game will crash. I had a crash during the autosave when reaching a new site even.
So it isn't just me...
Try quitting and re-launching the game from the exe after every second save, that seemed to help quite a bit.
Still my favourite mod, even with the prayer during each save.
Post by: Twiggie on August 15, 2009, 07:35:55 pm
but yeah, is there any way to get the orcs to bring a creature that has buildingdestroyer? i heard goblins bring trolls, though i've never seen one myself - my only ever sieges were with this mod ^_^
because it seems kinda pointless if i cant use traps but i can stop them with a door/floodgate etc, while my champion marksdwarves just pepper them.
also, add me!
Post by: The13thRonin on August 15, 2009, 07:38:45 pm
There's no error.log produced in your Dwarf Fortress main folder? The Windows error file doesn't really tell me anything.
If you are receiving crashes with vanilla Dwarf Fortress as well there's not much I can do... I suggest putting some threads up in the bug reporting section. It is possible something in Dig Deeper is exacerbating an existing problem for people already plagued with crashes... Personally I can play 10 years with no problem in sight?
PS - Where did you say you got my mod again? The only official version is on DFFD and linked in the first post of this thread.
Quote
imho, you should remove trapavoid and add buildingdestroyer for more... fun.
but yeah, is there any way to get the orcs to bring a creature that has buildingdestroyer? i heard goblins bring trolls, though i've never seen one myself - my only ever sieges were with this mod ^_^
because it seems kinda pointless if i cant use traps but i can stop them with a door/floodgate etc, while my champion marksdwarves just pepper them.
also, add me!
They should be able to open doors... They have the CANOPENDOORS and LOCKPICKER tags... I don't know why they'd be hesitant to barge right in...
Post by: martinuzz on August 16, 2009, 02:31:36 am
Only thing I can think of, is, that you locked the doors immediatly when you got the siege, before unpausing the game. If the doors are locked before Orcs start pathfinding, there will be no valid path, and lockpickers / buildingdestroyers won't do their thing.
As for floodgates, I think lockpicking is not applicable on them. Don't know if buildingdestroyers take out floodgates.
Post by: Saeldanya on August 16, 2009, 03:36:55 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Vanilla doesn't crash, nor does Civilization Forge. I got the mod from the link in the OP of this thread. Its ok though, I can manage with paranoid saving techniques... regenning the world isn't an option right now as I've already started a new fortress so many times, and I'd like to take this one to 20 years. But I'll try it later :)
Something else, I noticed that for some reason my champions refuse to wear great helms. Could it be that hoods don't allow for wearing a great helm on top of them?
Post by: Electro on August 16, 2009, 06:02:35 am
So really its just a bit oh a hassle, no time lost or anything.
On another note, i dreamt about orcs coming to kill my dwarves with machineguns tonight...
Post by: The13thRonin on August 16, 2009, 06:30:30 am
forgot to add something about the crashes, Even though the game freezes during save, the save is complete. Meaning i can just kill DF and then restart from the save that was just made.
So really its just a bit oh a hassle, no time lost or anything.
On another note, i dreamt about orcs coming to kill my dwarves with machineguns tonight...
Hahaha, I'll keep that in mind for the future *Evil Grin*.
For the meantime however:
We are now up to version 1.3!
You can find the download here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980
That's RIGHT! A new RELEASE! Check the OP for an updated READ-ME with the changes!
PS - You will need to delete the objects files and regen your world.
Don't fret though, you can always delay updating! I like to think that regular fresh releases is never a bad thing :).
Post by: Saeldanya on August 16, 2009, 05:10:04 pm
On another note, i dreamt about orcs coming to kill my dwarves with machineguns tonight...
Shhht... don't say it too loud, the modmaster might feel inspired ;D
Post by: The13thRonin on August 17, 2009, 10:03:43 am
EDIT: OHSHI... Purple Slimes just oozed into my fortress... Draft the farmers! Push them back lads!
Well that went pretty well... Only one injured dwarf. Food and booze supplies are adequate for our 15 settlers but while we're under siege we're going to find it hard to produce enough weapons to fight these dastardly orcs off! They're staying out of bow range too... Crafty buggers... Wow... I think they even managed to murder the liaison...
Post by: Saeldanya on August 17, 2009, 01:19:18 pm
By the way, I really enjoy the deep steel implementation. It's so nice to be able to do something with just 3 bars of mithril that came off the dwarven caravan, and to have an upgrade for those boring old steel bars. Without modding, the gap between steel and adamantine is way too large.
The save crashes have been eliminated. Quitting and restarting the .exe after every save does the trick. Thanks for having looked into it, Ronin :)
Post by: 612DwarfAvenue on August 18, 2009, 03:17:47 am
And, screw Orcs with machineguns, what about Carp with Machineguns?
... Or Orcs with Machineguns that fire Carp.
Post by: The13thRonin on August 18, 2009, 10:01:53 am
How's the new version? Everyone happy so far?
Post by: Lyrax on August 19, 2009, 02:10:31 am
I really do like this mod. However, I think you went a little overboard on the orcs. Trapavoid? Really? I don't think you're giving dwarven ingenuity enough credit, here. And they show up waaay before your fortress has anything to loot. Why, I had one siege show up before my first dwarven caravan! This took me by surprise, and needless to say they merrily slaughtered all my dwarves.
But you made me rethink all my strategies with this mod, and you've made me lose. Vanilla DF didn't do that for me. And as we all know, losing is fun!
Post by: The13thRonin on August 19, 2009, 08:37:00 am
I like it.
I really do like this mod. However, I think you went a little overboard on the orcs. Trapavoid? Really? I don't think you're giving dwarven ingenuity enough credit, here. And they show up waaay before your fortress has anything to loot. Why, I had one siege show up before my first dwarven caravan! This took me by surprise, and needless to say they merrily slaughtered all my dwarves.
But you made me rethink all my strategies with this mod, and you've made me lose. Vanilla DF didn't do that for me. And as we all know, losing is fun!
My first strategy is usually... GET THE HELL INSIDE... LOCK ALL THE DOORS...
Then comes... START PRODUCING WEAPONS AND SPARRING.
Post by: martinuzz on August 19, 2009, 09:04:38 am
One thing strikes me as odd: I used the sitefinder to get a site with a magma pool, but I haven't found it yet.. But then again, it could start deeper. I'm used to magma pools being near or at the surface of completely flat maps like this one I play now.. Ill let you know if I find it or not. (I never use reveal.exe or similar functions)
Found the magma 5 z-levels deep. ;D
Post by: Rijjka on August 19, 2009, 04:54:45 pm
Post by: Vieto on August 19, 2009, 11:52:46 pm
The mod is a little buggy. One time, my fort was defeated by... the caravan's massive/possibly infinite cargo of caged chickens and pigs... the list went on forever... it killed my frame rate.
Another time, my Trader wanted a pet Sorcerer. :D
My only complaint is TRAP_AVOID, which I guess can easily be removed, but an alternative that makes traps less effective would probably be better. Even though it would take slightly longer to train my devastating army of WAR RABBITS!!! (yeah, I made rabbits trainable. Unfortunately, they didn't live up to their Monty Python status)
Post by: The13thRonin on August 20, 2009, 03:32:01 am
Add me as a list of users.
Will do.
The mod is a little buggy.
I disagree.
One time, my fort was defeated by... the caravan's massive/possibly infinite cargo of caged chickens and pigs... the list went on forever... it killed my frame rate.
Don't request them/obtain a better CPU... I find this to be an extremely odd problem...
Another time, my Trader wanted a pet Sorcerer. :D
Having a dwarf like sorcerers doesn't mean he wants them as pets just the same way that a dwarf liking giant corkscrews doesn't mean he wants them as pets.
My only complaint is TRAP_AVOID, which I guess can easily be removed, but an alternative that makes traps less effective would probably be better. Even though it would take slightly longer to train my devastating army of WAR RABBITS!!! (yeah, I made rabbits trainable. Unfortunately, they didn't live up to their Monty Python status)
Guards... Burn the heretic...
Post by: GenericOverusedName on August 20, 2009, 08:01:40 am
Post by: Zekrish on August 20, 2009, 09:51:19 am
Post by: BiosElement on August 20, 2009, 12:14:16 pm
...Totally awesome!
Post by: eviscerator on August 20, 2009, 01:43:50 pm
My first strategy is usually... GET THE HELL INSIDE... LOCK ALL THE DOORS...
Then comes... START PRODUCING WEAPONS AND SPARRING.
I'm into my third year, and all I've produced for armor is some crappy leather and 4 bronze breastplates. Still have killed something like 22 orcs - through the magic of drawbridge chicken. Lure those suckers in close, than pepper them with orc-bone bolts.
Post by: The13thRonin on August 20, 2009, 05:35:42 pm
My first strategy is usually... GET THE HELL INSIDE... LOCK ALL THE DOORS...
Then comes... START PRODUCING WEAPONS AND SPARRING.
I'm into my third year, and all I've produced for armor is some crappy leather and 4 bronze breastplates. Still have killed something like 22 orcs - through the magic of drawbridge chicken. Lure those suckers in close, than pepper them with orc-bone bolts.
Hahaha, I haven't been able to get much of a metalworking production train going in my fortress but I do have one legendary weapon smith and I imported a bar of mithril from a trade caravan. I don't know how she'd fare against orcs but my one military swordsdwarf is able to cut goblins down in their droves with her EXCEPTIONAL mithril short sword. The first time my recruit used it she hit a goblin so hard it flew through the air for several hundred meters, smashed into a tree breaking at the torso into separate: two legs, two arms a torso and a severed head. Blood exploded all over the clearing and I checked my dwarfs profile to see she now "doesn't care about anything anymore".
... Awesome...
Post by: Vieto on August 20, 2009, 11:31:09 pm
I'm now able to deal with all threats but ArcherOrcs, which can't touch me if I don't go on the walls. Also, is it normal for Caravans and Migrants to not come, or even be mentioned, during Seiges?
Edit: One of my dwarves made an Epic Blackmetal Earing Artifact... worth 200k. Needless to say, it tripled my fortress value.
Edit: Also, the current Orcs are called 'The Incest of Sharks'. Well, now we know what happens when we mate related sharks. Kind of makes sense.
Edit the third: What's wrong with having a pet Sorcerer? Surely, if your dwarf likes an animal, they should get it. For instance, one of my dwarves likes GCSQ for their fearsome power. As such, I feel she deserves one as a pet.
Post by: martinuzz on August 21, 2009, 12:53:21 am
.
But now. I have a little question.. I would like to clean up the post-sieges mess in my fort, for I have missed out on 2 years of caravans due to unfortunate siege timing. For this I want to turn off sieges for a year or so.
My question is: If I turn off sieges, will they resume normally if I turn the init option back on?
Edit: Also, add me to the list
Post by: The13thRonin on August 21, 2009, 01:04:29 am
My fort is well established into it's 11th year by now and my military is feared by Orcs around the world. The only things I don't take on head-on are Orc elite archers.. Bit paranoia, since they killed some of my elite marksdwarves in the early years of the fort, right through my tower's fortifications. Although I should try again if another one turns up. Everyone is clad in exceptional / masterwork full plate / chain, with GCS chitin leather underneath it, and all are legendary shield/armor users. They take out squads of normal Orc archers without a scratch.. They only lose an occasional baby. Average stands at losing 0.66 baby / siege. ;D
.
But now. I have a little question.. I would like to clean up the post-sieges mess in my fort, for I have missed out on 2 years of caravans due to unfortunate siege timing. For this I want to turn off sieges for a year or so.
My question is: If I turn off sieges, will they resume normally if I turn the init option back on?
Edit: Also, add me to the list
I have no idea ???. I would suggest building a guarded road for the caravans to traverse. Marksdwarf towers, pits, traps, magma ahoy! That and you should keep your army guarding the forward parts of the road. The caravan guards will help you fight the enemy off and the caravan will only leave if enough of its merchants are killed off.
Post by: martinuzz on August 21, 2009, 01:56:27 am
Problem is, siege arrives before the caravan, so the caravan does not show up at all :P
Post by: eviscerator on August 21, 2009, 06:22:45 am
As you can see, there is a small text problem with orcs, since they lack names. You probably already knew this.
Edit: I got another dwarf who was surrounded by leather armor. ?? ?? Well, it IS one of the things he likes.
Post by: Electro on August 21, 2009, 06:24:54 am
I've gotten to my 6th year this fort, and have 140 dorfs so far. I've tweaked away trap_avoid aswell since that didnt make any sense, only have 6 weapontraps anyways so i hardly misusing it. Tweaked the progress_trigger to goblin standards since i got frustrated by them arriving before i had a chance to do anything, forcing me to wall myself up. But for the next fort i will probably lower that again a bit since this was a bit too easy.
I much enjoy the new metals and alloys, much because im a hoarder but also since it adds new flavor.
I like the sieges more than ever now since now i actually have to watch it, and not only see seiges as a source of goblinite.
one thing im wondering about is, where is all the 60orc sieges? my last siege was with 2 groups, totalling some 20 orcs. with 140 dorfs thats rather easy.
Could it be that i also have goblins siege me and thus the orcs dont control that much land or something?
Post by: eviscerator on August 21, 2009, 08:05:52 am
Post by: The13thRonin on August 21, 2009, 09:27:54 am
Also, Patterned Steel doesn't seem to be available for armor for some reason??
Nice find... I completely missed this...
Post by: Arathanar on August 21, 2009, 09:43:50 am
Post by: martinuzz on August 21, 2009, 11:03:45 am
one thing im wondering about is, where is all the 60orc sieges? my last siege was with 2 groups, totalling some 20 orcs. with 140 dorfs thats rather easy.
Could it be that i also have goblins siege me and thus the orcs dont control that much land or something?
Nope.. I have both Goblin and Orc sieges as well.. They even siege in the same season sometimes.. I've seen full sized sieges (5 groups, or maybe even 6) of both Orcs and Goblins
Post by: Vieto on August 21, 2009, 01:28:22 pm
Post by: Phazer on August 21, 2009, 09:24:58 pm
Post by: Shadowslasher on August 21, 2009, 10:35:55 pm
(http://i29.tinypic.com/v8lb9f.jpg)
In my world, at least one goblin civ is 98% humans. I was an elf and recruited a couple human baby snatchers. It also wasn't automatically my enemy (I was an elf).
Also, Ancient Werewolves are goddamn tough.
Post by: Phazer on August 22, 2009, 10:32:40 am
Post by: eviscerator on August 22, 2009, 12:08:57 pm
Post by: Magua on August 22, 2009, 03:22:15 pm
Post by: Vieto on August 22, 2009, 04:01:23 pm
Alunite and Olivine are the ones that come to mind, though there are others.
Post by: Sysice on August 22, 2009, 05:22:25 pm
Post by: AxisofLint on August 22, 2009, 05:33:54 pm
1) Do all Orcs bypass traps?
2) Do they have any other abilities that I should know about?
3) Is there a list somewhere of the new crop/animal types and what processes you can do with them? I.e, are there any new 'thread' crops, or 'milkable' animals?
Many thanks, great mod!
Post by: Phazer on August 22, 2009, 05:54:23 pm
2. NoPain,NoFear. as a summary: they wont back down even if you kill half of them infront of another group, goblins would have fled but orcs just mindlessly charge.
3 not that i know of.
Post by: The13thRonin on August 22, 2009, 08:50:44 pm
1. Yes, you can change this in raws.
GUARDS, SEIZE THE HERETIC!
No but really... Winning because you have a 3x3 corridor of cage traps is some serious lame. Why would you want to edit out the fun?
3) Is there a list somewhere of the new crop/animal types and what processes you can do with them? I.e, are there any new 'thread' crops, or 'milkable' animals?
Yeah... Hemp and cotton are new threads... There's many new dyes too... Check the README, it has a full change-log.
Post by: Phazer on August 23, 2009, 06:30:46 am
Post by: AxisofLint on August 23, 2009, 09:02:56 am
1. Yes, you can change this in raws.
GUARDS, SEIZE THE HERETIC!
No but really... Winning because you have a 3x3 corridor of cage traps is some serious lame. Why would you want to edit out the fun?
I asked because I wasn't expecting it the first time I played and had setup some rockfall and weapon traps as supplemental defences since my army wasn't very strong. I had my army hold back while the orcs approached and then the orcs simply walked straight over my traps and I was like.. wtf... and my entire fortress got slaughtered in about 60 seconds.
At the moment, I simply use a pit with a drawbridge to keep the orcs out until I have sufficient resources to deal with them properly.
I've only been playing DF for a few months, so I'm not that great at it atm ;)
Quote
3) Is there a list somewhere of the new crop/animal types and what processes you can do with them? I.e, are there any new 'thread' crops, or 'milkable' animals?
Yeah... Hemp and cotton are new threads... There's many new dyes too... Check the README, it has a full change-log.
Yep, I meant more along the lines of which crops can be processed at which buildings (i.e, the cave beehives seem to be for brewing.. the hemp and cotton, as you've said are for thread, etc).
Thanks though =)
Post by: Blast on August 23, 2009, 09:57:20 am
Great mod! The orcs are fun, and the whole pack of new stuff is a great improvement to dwarf fortress.
Keep up the good job.
Also, if you like to, I can post a link for "my" graphics pack. A mix of Mayday and Beefmo graphics. Orcs show up, still trying to fill in the rest of the animals.
Post by: eviscerator on August 23, 2009, 10:44:58 am
For instance, one of my dwarves, after having upgraded to chainmail, has decided his leather leggings would go better in his right hand, which is also holding a water skin and his shield, no of which will be usable like that.
Half of my other dwarves have backpacks or waterskins or socks or something in their shield hand, and there is NO way to make them drop that, making the shields useless. I wish Toady would hurry up and make a release that fixes the military at least somewhat.
EDIT: Also, can't get the dwarves to equip the Great Helms I've just made, either under chain OR plate armor.
Post by: TomiTapio on August 23, 2009, 05:12:56 pm
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
mean a damage of 1 to 2 OR 1d2? Will alligator bites 4:16 in my raws be a demigodly 4d16 or a reasonable 4-16?
Post by: martinuzz on August 23, 2009, 06:06:47 pm
The main problem with no traps is that the game is so buggy that less than half of you military dwarves will wear armor properly, and you will have insane micro-managing trying to even get half a dozen of them outfitted. Basically, the military side of the game is almost completely broken.
For instance, one of my dwarves, after having upgraded to chainmail, has decided his leather leggings would go better in his right hand, which is also holding a water skin and his shield, no of which will be usable like that.
Half of my other dwarves have backpacks or waterskins or socks or something in their shield hand, and there is NO way to make them drop that, making the shields useless. I wish Toady would hurry up and make a release that fixes the military at least somewhat.
EDIT: Also, can't get the dwarves to equip the Great Helms I've just made, either under chain OR plate armor.
I have only the problem that my dwarves take off their leather armor (all of it) when switching to chainmail
chain and plate are layered semi-properly; the leggings are lost when equipping plate over chain.
However, I can't recall if that's normal or not. losing the leather armor isn't normal. I'm sure my last few fortresses had their military clad in both leather and plate.. Hmm.. Maybe I skipped the chainmail those times though..
As for your problems with dwarves holding stuff in their hands, I think it has to do with the waterskins. They are not functioning / broken at the current release ( and have been for quite a while). If I recall correctly, there's a problem with filling up waterskins that results in them not being dropped / equipped properly. Do not set your military to use waterskins, only food rations.
Edit: What sane dwarf would drink water anyways?
Edit2: I do not know if, for your current situation, setting your military to no longer use waterskins makes them drop them and fix your problem.. If not:
1) forbid all waterskins you want dropped
2) save, exit, and open body_default.txt in raw/objects folder
3) remove [thOUGHT] (fully capitalized ofcourse, sorry, forum scripting can't take that) from [BODY:BRAIN]
4) restart DF, load game
5) all your dwarves, and other beings with brains will have passed out due to lack of thoughts, dropping all their stuff in the progress
6) save, exit
7) put back [thOUGHT] in [BODY:BRAIN]
8] restart, load and behold! Your dwarves won't pick up those waterskins again ;D
EDIT3: as for great helms, I think those are simply too big for dwarves (it's the only helmet with [MATERIAL_SIZE:3] in the raws, the others have size 2)
Post by: Holy Mittens on August 23, 2009, 07:37:08 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on August 23, 2009, 08:09:42 pm
Same with some of the other problems.
Post by: Pyrophoricity on August 24, 2009, 03:43:39 am
So to sum up; I love this Mod, please add me to the list :D
Post by: martinuzz on August 24, 2009, 08:18:20 am
I have removed [AUTUMN] as active season for the orcs, because I like my dwarven traders..
It all worked so far, but now, 12th year of the fort, early autumn.. Dwarven traders just arrived and are safely inside the depot...
A VILE FORCE OF DARKNESS HAS ARRIVED
'Oh joy', I think. 'More goblins' (who do frequently siege me in autumn)
Nope. ORCS. Full sized siege of em, too. 6 groups, mostly axe-orcs.
It seems my military will be making overtime this year.
But it is really odd. Removing autumn as active season should keep the orcs away during that season.
Only explanation I can think of is that those orcs come from far, and started their siege before autumn. Don't know if that is possible though.
Post by: Twiggie on August 24, 2009, 10:28:28 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 24, 2009, 10:51:27 am
Also, I'm pretty sure a slightly altered version of this mod spawned Cacame, the most epic elf to live, badass enough to be king of a dwarven civ, killing a size 40 dragon despite no armor and only being "competent" with his mithril hammer. AND CAME OUT UNHARMED.
Post by: Phazer on August 24, 2009, 11:45:31 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 24, 2009, 11:48:28 am
Basically, this lets elves be badass
Post by: martinuzz on August 24, 2009, 12:32:22 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on August 24, 2009, 03:40:42 pm
Post by: eviscerator on August 24, 2009, 07:02:06 pm
Heh, an ambush of 5 bowgoblins and 1 wrestler popped on a pet sheep, and was promptly torn to shreds by a roving pack of war dogs. No soldiers even involved. The dogs were milling about quite far behind the hunter who trained them.
Then some goblins with swords or spears or something had the misfortune of springing on another hunter not far from where some spear trainees were stationed (with Nordic Gold Pitchforks - won't risk the Tridents yet, which will be blackmetal). It was almost horrible to watch as their eyes and intestines got poked out.
My original archers have done so much wrestling they have perfect stats.
Post by: martinuzz on August 25, 2009, 02:23:52 am
He already killed a guard while sparring. And 63 orcs..
By the way, there is no such things as perfect stats.. When you're superdwarvenly tough, perfectly agile and all, your stats will still keep on increasing, only you won't see it.
You can see it if you use Dwarf Companion, a handy little tool by Bartavelle.
Post by: Pyrophoricity on August 25, 2009, 03:38:59 am
Also, might I ask the significance of Titanium? I'm going through alot of trouble to try and get some but I haven't a whole lot of ideas as to what to do with it.
Post by: lastofthelight on August 26, 2009, 06:04:45 am
did you manage this? I thought this was hardcoded?
Caused dwarves to become more demanding over things such as having individual rooms, they tantrum easier as well
Post by: The13thRonin on August 26, 2009, 06:16:45 am
I was looking at your changelog on the mod hosting site. How in the world
did you manage this? I thought this was hardcoded?
Caused dwarves to become more demanding over things such as having individual rooms, they tantrum easier as well
Tweaked their personalities. Ever so slightly but I think it has a noticeable effect.
Post by: Vester on August 26, 2009, 08:33:10 am
Also, how does your mod affect Adventurer mode? Is it more Funtm?
Post by: Lyrax on August 26, 2009, 08:49:33 am
Don't like the presence of hemp and wheat. We've already got rope reed (hemp) and longland grass (wheat). What in the world do we need two more of them for? In fact, while it's nice to have lots of aboveground plants, I hate scrolling through three pages of them when I want to plant anything. So I'm taking a bunch of them out. But apricots are good.
Pheasants and geese keep killing my hunters. They fly over pools of water, which look nice and safe until the dwarf follows them in and drowns. :( I guess I should dig ramps in all pools. Annoying, but I don't see any fix other than 'remove game fowl'.
Orcs preclude trading. Gr. When I holed up with my human diplomat, he went insane and died before the orcs left. Now the humans siege me, too. Fortunately, they are somewhat less fierce. Hopefully, I'll be able to get two sieges at once!
I've already mentioned my dislike of Trapavoid, but my favorite traps still work. The spear/spike line, for example. Dwarf power!
Levers are your friends, everyone. Make sure you designate a starting dwarf as an engineer, as lever-activated doors can't be picked.
Post by: Diakron on August 26, 2009, 02:56:29 pm
Thanks man.
Post by: Shadowslasher on August 26, 2009, 03:15:33 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on August 27, 2009, 10:10:34 pm
I'm thinking of Digging Deeper. Is 40d13 stable? I've been using 40d.
Yes, 40d13 is the version I'm using at the moment. DIG DEEPER is stable for 40d and all its current variants.
Also, how does your mod affect Adventurer mode? Is it more Funtm?
Of course! New foes to slay, new speech for immersion and many, many new weapons and other such equipment.
Niggling thoughts:
Don't like the presence of hemp and wheat. We've already got rope reed (hemp) and longland grass (wheat). What in the world do we need two more of them for? In fact, while it's nice to have lots of aboveground plants, I hate scrolling through three pages of them when I want to plant anything. So I'm taking a bunch of them out. But apricots are good.
I'm not taking hemp or wheat out. I imagine rope reed and longland grass are different types of plants, perhaps with slightly similar properties but not of our garden variety. If you don't like scrolling through millions of possible variations of everything you might not like this mod. It's all about the variance and I won't compromise on that.
Pheasants and geese keep killing my hunters. They fly over pools of water, which look nice and safe until the dwarf follows them in and drowns. :( I guess I should dig ramps in all pools. Annoying, but I don't see any fix other than 'remove game fowl'.
Can happen with any flying animal. This is a problem with the AI not DIG DEEPER. I find it utterly hilarious and I'm definitely not getting rid of the game fowl.
Orcs preclude trading. Gr. When I holed up with my human diplomat, he went insane and died before the orcs left. Now the humans siege me, too. Fortunately, they are somewhat less fierce. Hopefully, I'll be able to get two sieges at once!
They're meant to. That's what SIEGES do... Cut you off from supplies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege
Levers are your friends, everyone. Make sure you designate a starting dwarf as an engineer, as lever-activated doors can't be picked.
Exploitation like this is drawing me ever-closer to an irreversible decision to give orcs BUILDING_DESTROYER: 2 as well as trap-avoid.
After having a VERY FUN game with Dig deper added in i have decided to never use Vanilla again.
Thanks man.
My pleasure, I'm glad you like it :). If you could spare the time I'd love for you to go rate the file on DFFD (download location). Perhaps even leave a comment! It's always nice to receive thanks but it is nicer yet to keep this thread and this mod alive for more to enjoy :D!
Next version, pump up megabeasts a lot to be able to compete with orc armies. Please :)
Implemented ;).
Oh and by the way, a little update on how things are progressing... I have added in halflings to the new update, I eventually want drow and dark dwarves too.
- Halflings
- Drow
- Black Dwarves
Post by: Vester on August 27, 2009, 10:44:17 pm
I'm thinking of Digging Deeper. Is 40d13 stable? I've been using 40d.
Yes, 40d13 is the version I'm using at the moment. DIG DEEPER is stable for 40d and all its current variants.Also, how does your mod affect Adventurer mode? Is it more Funtm?
Of course! New foes to slay, new speech for immersion and many, many new weapons and other such equipment.
Alright! Since I can use it with 40d, I'll start Digging Deeper as soon as I collapse the skyroof on my current embark location.
Post by: Vieto on August 27, 2009, 11:23:01 pm
When you add the Drow, can you take the [trapavoid] tags from the Orcs and give it to them instead? That way, you would have Orcs as the Strongest Seiging race, while the Drow would be the race that would be able to avoid traps (And also seige like elves)?
Post by: The13thRonin on August 28, 2009, 12:35:51 am
Question (and I think I know your answer, although if you answer differently, I'll be pleasantly suprised):
When you add the Drow, can you take the [trapavoid] tags from the Orcs and give it to them instead? That way, you would have Orcs as the Strongest Seiging race, while the Drow would be the race that would be able to avoid traps (And also seige like elves)?
An interesting proposition. I will consider it. Orcs will probably gain building destroyer if that's the case though...
Post by: magikarcher on August 28, 2009, 01:49:49 am
Post by: archgaden on August 28, 2009, 08:16:06 am
My experience so far has been a great deal of fun. I was given a bit less than a year to set up before the orcs came, which was far more time than I needed to dig in. The orcs usually come after a trade caravan arrives though, which has destroyed my human and elf relations due to shut-in madness. I'm having trouble finding iron, so my military is suffering for it, requiring me to turn to fortified archery and avoid melee...although, I'm getting a ton of steel from invading orcs, so that will be turning around very soon. The orcs come in far greater numbers than I can handle with 25% draft-rate, so I'll have to militarize even more. I already had one bad experience when I saw about 10 orcs and decided to let them in to fight... and there were about 30 that actually got in. I had the dwarven caravan there at the time though, and their guard formed the front line of my defense, with my military staying back to provide cover fire. The caravan suffered 100% casualties, and my military struck down to less than half of its numbers. I suffered about 10% civlian losses as a few orcs managed to make it into the fort (why I thought a few scattered traps should be built from then on..) Sieges are keeping me shut in for most of the year now. The brief breaks I get are used for mass loot hauling and dispatching of team woodcutter. Eventually, I expect the orcs will field more elite bowman, which will end my archery mayham... by then, I plan to have my military equipped in their steel...or better yet, one of the new metals if I can find it.
The orcs have created a cruel feedback loop with imported wealth. They force caravans to drop their loot on my map and when I do manage to kill them, they drop their own loot to. This added loot greatly increases my wealth, which seems to be leading to bigger sieges, which create even more loot. My imported wealth is sitting about 5:1 to my normal wealth, but nothing a few artifacts won't fix.
I look forward to sneaky drow and more megabeasts. Its great actually having a challenge to pit military against. It makes the trial of having to deal with equipment juggling mean something. My only real gripe is that the trading aspect of the game is nearly removed by constant sieging. It feels cheap having all their loot dumped on me for free because the orcs smashed them. I might just have to keep the trade depot shut off until I find a way to defend them against such reckless orc hate... hrrm.. might not be much of a gripe if I can find a way to pull that off.
Post by: eviscerator on August 28, 2009, 09:16:40 am
Anyway, I've been thinking about tweeking the orcs a bit. It doesn't make thematic sense to me that orcs should be better metallurgists than humans, who are much smarter. It there a way we could restrict them to iron, or even bronze/copper armor and weapons?
I'm betting that now that patterned steel can be made into armor it will show up on orcs as armor, as well as weapons.
This will make the game both easier and harder, as the orcs wouldn't have steel arrows anymore (ouch!), but also wouldn't feed a steel industry as readily (if at all with no iron). I think I made something like 25 bars of steel and 5 bars of patterned steel from my first siege (melted about 100 pieces down).
I hope that someday Toady will change how smelters work so that it requires less fuel to make copper / bronze ingots and items than iron, which will justify irons greater price. It really does melt at higher temps and really is harder to refine than copper and many other metals.
I don't think crossbows can be nerfed if orcs still get bows, if only because you get 2 to 3 orc bowman per marksdwarf as it is. Plus, orcs siege in enough numbers that it doesn't matter. Either you're already going to kill them all from behind a wall, or you'll only get 6 out of 30 before they mob you.
Post by: Vieto on August 28, 2009, 09:23:10 am
Men of the East
They would be the same creature as Humans (Humans, of course), but would be another entity, with different weapons and animals available to them. Also, they prefere desert and jungle regions over temperate/cold and wet regions.
edit: Actually, I'll see if I can make some basic raws for MotE.
Post by: Vester on August 28, 2009, 09:28:17 am
I have to say I find chicken leather shields to be hilarious...
Anyway, I've been thinking about tweeking the orcs a bit. It doesn't make thematic sense to me that orcs should be better metallurgists than humans, who are much smarter. It there a way we could restrict them to iron, or even bronze/copper armor and weapons?
I'm betting that now that patterned steel can be made into armor it will show up on orcs as armor, as well as weapons.
This will make the game both easier and harder, as the orcs wouldn't have steel arrows anymore (ouch!), but also wouldn't feed a steel industry as readily (if at all with no iron). I think I made something like 25 bars of steel and 5 bars of patterned steel from my first siege (melted about 100 pieces down).
Hmm, I know the reason that the Orcs Are Just Better was to ramp up the game's difficulty. That's why they can [trAPAVOID] despite being pretty big, and that's why they're set to only fight - and without the [BABYSNATCHER] tag either, which would have prevented their epic sieges.
I just removed their [trAPAVOID] for flavor reasons, but that shouldn't stop 'em from slaughtering me.
Post by: archgaden on August 28, 2009, 11:38:40 am
I don't think crossbows can be nerfed if orcs still get bows, if only because you get 2 to 3 orc bowman per marksdwarf as it is. Plus, orcs siege in enough numbers that it doesn't matter. Either you're already going to kill them all from behind a wall, or you'll only get 6 out of 30 before they mob you.
My first all out brawl with the orcs didn't go so bad all things considered. I wanted to slaughter some up for their metal as I wasn't finding iron of my own, so I opened the gates seeing only about 10 orcs on the map. About 30 actually came in tough, so I must have missed the majority of the force. I had 8 in my military (of about 30ish total population). 4 were marksdwarves who had spent about a season training after reaching elite wrestlers. My other 4 were wrestlers in training (2 elite). All were clad in copper plate armor from head to toe. I had the dwarven caravan there with the guards they brought.. I think about 6. My marksmen did some major damage to orcs while they fought the caravan guards while I kept the wrestlers back in my fort for the inevitable collision. With the caravan guards wiped out and about 15 orcs charging, I pulled my marksdwarves back to my wrestlers to engage the charging orcs. What ensued was a terrible brawl. My marksdwarves got off a few more shots before being stuck in the melee. Many of the orcs ran off to chase civilian dwarves and things got hairy. It took quite a while for my military to finish off the dwarves, but they did. I ended up with only 3 of my soldiers left alive, and lost a handful of civilians (3 or 4). The losses were much lighter than I expected after realizing I let 30ish orcs in... All things considered, I do not expect the orcs to be very nasty once I have a mature military to deal with them. 8 fairly green military with 6 guards took on 30 orcs and won, with terrible military losses. When I have a dozen well equipped, well trained military, I don't think 60 orcs will be a problem. Of course, I wouldn't have done nearly so well without a lot of micro-managing movement, which is tricky, and requires a good use of fort door forbidding. All in all, I expect the late game to be fairly eventless still, but the mid-game is going to be FUN
Post by: AxisofLint on August 29, 2009, 06:27:45 am
I don't think crossbows can be nerfed if orcs still get bows, if only because you get 2 to 3 orc bowman per marksdwarf as it is. Plus, orcs siege in enough numbers that it doesn't matter. Either you're already going to kill them all from behind a wall, or you'll only get 6 out of 30 before they mob you.
My first all out brawl with the orcs didn't go so bad all things considered. I wanted to slaughter some up for their metal as I wasn't finding iron of my own, so I opened the gates seeing only about 10 orcs on the map. About 30 actually came in tough, so I must have missed the majority of the force.
They tend to come in packs of 3. Check out the unit list and you'll see 3 different groups of orcs, usually split up so one is a marksman group, one is pikemen, one brawlers etc.
I'm not sure if you had any, but they do also field considerably tougher named orcs also.
Post by: Grendus on August 29, 2009, 10:10:36 am
And the normal version gave Morul and Ironblood?
Ironblood was vanilla, though the stories of his brother were done with the Legendary Lands mod (it's a fun mod, but laggy as hell). Morul was done with the orc mod, I believe Martin wanted a good source of enemies and goblinite ore for Morul to work with (if it comes from orcs, is armor for melting still considered goblinite?)
Edit: been playing the mod, and I'm fairly impressed. I'm going to have to remove some of the insane value of dwarven honey though, Sweet Pods at value 20 were bad enough. Though I may just grow it for a single season and brew the entire crop, a 3 value alcohol without all the hassle of sun berries is very nice.
Haven't encountered the orcs yet though, which is good. Just getting my dwarves to work has been a hassle. I keep embarking on mountains with UG rivers and getting all my supplies plus wood from the nearby forest plus crops from the base of the mountain until I can find the river and muddy some ground is absurdly time consuming.
Post by: waldo on August 30, 2009, 02:49:24 am
so i've been playing df for about a year now, hooray, anyways it had gooten boring when i stumbled upon dig deeper, now in order to make the game relatively more interesting i had been using the build map with parameters, giving it 15 volcanoes minimum, the beasts would stop the world gen if they got to above 20 percent dead, and the minimum starting civilizations would be somewhere in the range of 30-40.
now, when i stumbled upon dig deeper, i tried it with the same parameters and found a relatively nice spot, the only problem was, i could never hold the fort for over a year because orcs would always siege twice a year minimum. so the first try i died horribly, seriously, it was pitiful, maybe only 1 or two marksdwarfs and nothing to section off my fort from the edge of the map. i ended up dying in the winter.
the next try i had a lot more dwarves, but i didn't really do much to improve the situation because i mainly focused on getting back all the items that i had in the previous try. i died in the fall. this happened twice.
the fourth try i died of starvation induced tantrum spiral, that got me kinda irritated. and finally with my fifth try my dwarves are spiraling into tantrums because three dwarves died in a pit who was apparently everyone's friends.
it's certainly made dwarf fortress interesting, i love dig deeper!!!! :D
Post by: Vester on August 30, 2009, 09:29:49 am
Almost all of the weapons they sell are made out of exotic gold alloys.
I beat an orc to death with a green gold warhammer.
Dig Deeper = Win.
Post by: Grendus on August 30, 2009, 12:38:28 pm
Post by: Pyrophoricity on August 30, 2009, 03:39:27 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 30, 2009, 03:46:08 pm
Post by: Lyrax on August 30, 2009, 06:07:07 pm
One thing I've been noticing is that the marble layers have absolutely no ore in them. Just a lot of black marble, purple marble, and other marble colors. Fortunately, the Basalt and Gabbro layers are fairly ore rich, but it's still kind of strange coming from a place where you wanted flux to find those nice Magnetite veins and now you only want small flux layers for steel.Marble is a metamorphic rock, unlike chalk and dolomite which are sedimentary. Marble is a flux stone, but it has never had much ore (other than malachite and maybe galena) at all. So I don't think this is a function of Dig Deeper so much as the game itself, though it may be that these colors are replacing some of the copper you'd normally find, making an already ore-poor area even less wealthy.
Post by: n.dravid on August 30, 2009, 09:48:07 pm
I just removed their [trAPAVOID] for flavor reasons, but that shouldn't stop 'em from slaughtering me.
I built a ton of cage and stone-falls to stop a recent orc siege. Had no idea they had [trAPAVOID]. Forty five dwarves die fast to Super-Orcishly Tough Pikemen... ;(
Post by: The13thRonin on August 30, 2009, 10:57:55 pm
I just removed their [trAPAVOID] for flavor reasons, but that shouldn't stop 'em from slaughtering me.I built a ton of cage and stone-falls...
And hence why they have trapavoid. Because a 5x5 corridor of cage traps at your entrances SHOULD NOT be the solution.
Post by: Vieto on August 30, 2009, 11:02:25 pm
I just removed their [trAPAVOID] for flavor reasons, but that shouldn't stop 'em from slaughtering me.
I built a ton of cage and stone-falls to stop a recent orc siege. Had no idea they had [trAPAVOID]. Forty five dwarves die fast to Super-Orcishly Tough Pikemen... ;(
and this is why you read before you download. :P
Post by: Holy Mittens on August 30, 2009, 11:43:47 pm
Hmm..four years into my Dig Deeper fort and I have been visited by a Ancient vampire, only problem is he's friendly, despite being the ruler of the local goblins he shows up as friendly and refuses to attack any of my dwarves. Not sure if thats an issue with the creature itself or the game though but thought it'd put it out there.
It happens because it's still a MegaBeast and the game can pick it when looking for a MegaBeast to attack. It happened to me in my fort, when a Black Dragon who was the leader of some Goblins decided to show up.
Hilariously, this DOES NOT block other MegaBeasts from showing up. As in my case, where the very next season a Red Dragon showed up right next to the Black Dragon and they proceeded to duke it out over my fortress.
Quote
How well does this work with the Mayday graphics pack? I could certainly give this a try and having more variety of stuff to work with sounds cool. So are the Orks.
It works fine but, obviously, the modded in creatures are all missing graphics.
Post by: n.dravid on August 31, 2009, 12:06:19 am
Ronin is definitely right, creativity is the key to survival with this mod!
Post by: Grendus on September 01, 2009, 09:34:07 am
Just had my first prepared encounter with the orcs, and they aren't that bad. Ran them off with some caravan guards, two legendary wrestlers/competent hammerdwarves in bronze, and two marksdwarves. Should be much easier after I get some immigrants - this siege came in the first friggin fall! Even the orc mod isn't that fast paced, if I hadn't planned on training a military, the fort would have been lost. Kind of scary, really, I like it.
Post by: Untelligent on September 01, 2009, 02:34:31 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on September 02, 2009, 07:33:51 am
It was brought up in another thread that Gargoyles lack a [HAS_RACEGLOSS:] tag.
What does this mean?
Post by: nahkh on September 02, 2009, 04:09:32 pm
Post by: ventuz on September 02, 2009, 09:40:02 pm
They weren't attackable until I used Shift + A, choked one to death, others didn't mind at all.
Post by: Vester on September 02, 2009, 09:44:14 pm
I do have a bit of a problem with adventurer mode. Since humans are set to use the lesser metals, and it seems that the gold alloys count as lesser metals, they end up selling only Chrome or Green Gold or Red Brass weapons. Kobolds also seem to use Chrome Arrows almost exclusively. It's no real problem with the game balance since they're all notoriously weak when used in weapons, but it breaks immersion for me a bit, since I have to sit and wonder why they used all that precious metal to make weapons. Is there a way to make sure they use Iron, Copper and Brass only?
(On an additional note, I once encountered a goblin temple that was built entirely out of what were apparently Gold Blocks. WOW.)
Post by: darkflagrance on September 02, 2009, 11:18:43 pm
Post by: Vieto on September 02, 2009, 11:23:58 pm
I like the variety of food offered in the game. However, I was a bit disconcerted to see things like "burger", "pizza", and "pasta" among possibilities. It detracts from the flavor of the game to have dishes with such strong modern American connotations included with it. Maybe other names like "Banquet" or "Feast" (I admittedly am not that great at coming up with names off the top of my head) should be used?
What?!? you don't want your dwarf to eat Cat-burgers and Demon-burgers at McDwarf's?
Post by: Untelligent on September 02, 2009, 11:30:42 pm
It was brought up in another thread that Gargoyles lack a [HAS_RACEGLOSS:] tag.
What does this mean?
The gargoyles are using several tags:
[ITEMCORPSE:STATUE:NO_SUBTYPE:STONE:USE_RACEGLOSS]
[MATERIAL:STONE:USE_RACEGLOSS]
These apparently don't work right without a racegloss tag (i.e. they were dropping statues made of unspecified stone).
Post by: Sysice on September 04, 2009, 08:07:15 pm
Might as well sign me up on those who dig deeper.
Post by: TheNewerMartianEmperor on September 05, 2009, 05:02:25 am
Post by: Razin on September 07, 2009, 07:25:58 pm
Floating above this otherwise calm map is a Giant Flying Jellyfish
I love this mod so much... (you can add me to that list if you like)
Post by: martinuzz on September 08, 2009, 05:57:36 am
Post by: Vester on September 08, 2009, 07:01:26 am
Post by: Ratepe on September 09, 2009, 09:37:41 am
Post by: jester on September 09, 2009, 10:34:42 am
Is this some sort of record? Ive never had an enemy bring a weapon stuck in him before either.
Edit: turns out he was the one orc who got through when I pulled the drawbridge up too late on a previous fortress. He pretty much gutted me single handedly
Post by: Angellus on September 09, 2009, 10:35:38 am
Great mod!
Post by: Keita on September 10, 2009, 05:08:56 am
Post by: Emily Murkpaddled on September 11, 2009, 03:50:46 pm
Is the geese everywhere behavior intended, and is anyone else seeing it too?
Post by: Twiggie on September 11, 2009, 03:51:53 pm
Post by: GreenMarine on September 12, 2009, 12:34:29 am
I like the new varieties of foods and other craftables.
Post by: jellyman on September 12, 2009, 06:10:52 am
No traps. No missile weapons. No locking doors, attackers will be faced toe to toe and eyeball to eyeball.
So far one siege, all orcs slaughtered in melee with no inuries to any soldier. Except for the ones they already had from sparring.
Post by: The13thRonin on September 12, 2009, 07:25:31 pm
Downloaded and giving it a go.
No traps. No missile weapons. No locking doors, attackers will be faced toe to toe and eyeball to eyeball.
So far one siege, all orcs slaughtered in melee with no inuries to any soldier. Except for the ones they already had from sparring.
This is a real man... Everyone take note.
Post by: Emily Murkpaddled on September 12, 2009, 11:19:27 pm
I abandoned my most recent Dig Deeper fortress because I overdid it defensively and it ceased to be challenging. All it took was [C]onstructions and replacing external doors with [l]inked [f]loodgates, and I was able to destroy sieges of 70+ orcs with no more than 6 marksdwarves. I let the corpses turn to bones, and voila! Enough ammunition to keep the cycle going indefinitely. If they showed up with archers I would usually lose the squad of 6, but it was so easy to just recruit more and send them out that I was still winning wars of attrition.
If there was a way to hard-code "orcs don't show up until at least the second year" I might try the no-missiles challenge again, but the only way to tune them is by using the [PROGRESS_TRIGGER*] tokens, which by definition means working with a grey area. I play at a fairly low FPS compared to most (35), so it takes a few hours just to reach my first Autumn caravan -- investing those few hours just to find that I get orcs before I get migrants was a waste of my time. The worst part is, there really isn't any way to race it; in order to get earlier/more plentiful migrants I need to aim for as high a production as I can early, but that also hits the very low [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION] token and means I get even earlier orcs!
I considered deleting all of their [PROGRESS_TRIGGER*] tokens except for population; that seems like a fair compromise. Even with the more plentiful coke, though, it's just so very labor intensive to get a squad of melee dwarves trained and armored without also crippling half of them. It also seems that I'd need to maintain over 50% of my population as military, which is all well and good except for the situations where the loss of a few dwarves starts a migration-dampening spiral which causes more casualties which means less migrants ... and so on.
iow, the orcs are challenging, but the same ol' same ol' tricks are still more than enough to trivialize them. By abusing the immutability of [C]onstructions and [f]loodgates, even the 7 starter dwarves with wood crossbows can defend themselves from almost any siege (opposing archers might be bad news, but the [F]ortification AI is pretty awful so sometimes their archers just stand there getting shot with impunity anyway). Without using those tried-and-true tactics, or other cheese like bridgesploits, the orcs remain challenging ... but possibly a little too much. That's just the nature of the randomness of the game, though, and as long as that randomness is there I'm not going to keep attempting the melee-only challenge; it's just far too likely to result in me having wasted several hours just to get sieged by 16 orcs against 7 recruits.
Post by: smjjames on September 14, 2009, 07:28:07 am
Hmm..four years into my Dig Deeper fort and I have been visited by a Ancient vampire, only problem is he's friendly, despite being the ruler of the local goblins he shows up as friendly and refuses to attack any of my dwarves. Not sure if thats an issue with the creature itself or the game though but thought it'd put it out there.
It happens because it's still a MegaBeast and the game can pick it when looking for a MegaBeast to attack. It happened to me in my fort, when a Black Dragon who was the leader of some Goblins decided to show up.
Hilariously, this DOES NOT block other MegaBeasts from showing up. As in my case, where the very next season a Red Dragon showed up right next to the Black Dragon and they proceeded to duke it out over my fortress.QuoteHow well does this work with the Mayday graphics pack? I could certainly give this a try and having more variety of stuff to work with sounds cool. So are the Orks.
It works fine but, obviously, the modded in creatures are all missing graphics.
Yea it's a bit of a necro of my own post (not the thread), but just asking, how does Mayday's graphics mod display the various new metals, rocks, ore, etc? I'm wondering if the Dig Deeper mod has more of a variety of colors available than vanilla DF or if it's the same.
Post by: CautionToTheWind on September 14, 2009, 07:40:38 am
My army of 5 marksdwarves and 10 assorted axe/hammer/mace/spear/shortsword did their best against the increasingly larger orc sieges but the melee dwarves were caught outside in one siege and only 3 survived. Meanwhile careful use of a drawbridge has allowed my marksdwarves to rake up kills from the shooting tower and the 3 remaining melee dwarves finished off what made it through the doors.
Memorable Moment:
Urist McUrist cancels rest: Interrupted by Orc Axe Lord.
no shit!
Post by: Shiv on September 14, 2009, 03:29:30 pm
Post by: Noodler13 on September 14, 2009, 07:45:20 pm
Is anyone else having geese dominate pretty much every embark situation? I got geese at my beachside fort, I got geese in my middle-of-the-forest fort, and I get geese on my mountain-by-forests forts (even when I'm using the mountainous Region tile, not the forest). I like that they make self-sustaining populations, so Hunters could have something to actually hunt, but I'm just seeing geese everywhere. Even in high-savagery embarks, I'm not seeing anything really beyond geese and the occasional flock of pheasants or rabbits. I actually went ahead and wiped them from my raws before generating my most recent world, just because there didn't seem to be any other way of getting variety. Hopefully I'll start getting large aquatic creatures again, now -- previously, those seemed replaced by the geese.geese have murdered a large portion of my current fortress. i reccomend making them less carp-like
Is the geese everywhere behavior intended, and is anyone else seeing it too?
Post by: Vester on September 14, 2009, 07:51:25 pm
YOUR DWARVES ARE NOT DWARFY.
Post by: jellyman on September 15, 2009, 04:07:48 pm
I beat the first siege with my starting 7 dwarves. My start build included 12 bronze nuggets, 12 charcoal, one dwarf with proficient armor/weapon smithing, fairly low supplies (maybe 20 food and 20 drink), pick, anvil and the other six dwarves with some skill in wrestling. First thing I built bed and barracks and started the other 6 to sparring. Then I built a forge and made 6 bronze shields and 6 hatchets. I nearly left it too late with my food efforts, and both food and drink were at zero for a scary amount of time before I got the food production up a bit. When my sparrers got to legendary I gave them the hatchets. This killed one, gave 3 nerve damage, and put on on long term bed rest. One made legendary axewielder. So I took the hatchets off them, and this was the force that faced the first siege. After that siege I then thought to give hatchets back to the ones who had nerve damage and wouldn't spar any more.
I'm now considering my only defensive construction - a corridor outside the fortress to channel the siegers into my fortess from one direction only and hopefully prevent single soldiers being caught by incoming squads coming from opposite dirctions.
Post by: Angellus on September 15, 2009, 05:15:51 pm
A little dev-list as you could call it, I personally would love to know if we could look out towards a version now or that we have to wait for the next version to come out.
(8) Diggin Deeper, diggin deeper, lalalalalaalalaa (8)
Post by: Shiv on September 16, 2009, 02:33:05 am
Post by: Phazer on September 16, 2009, 04:24:51 pm
Post by: Shiv on September 17, 2009, 03:38:42 am
Post by: Wilm0chimp on September 20, 2009, 07:44:51 am
I dont know why people claim they are too hard, sure they rock balls in melee and can avoid traps, but a moat and a drawbridge is enough to at least keep your ass alive. I embarked on a map with a volcano, so i have built myself a magma moat and ive got a long snaking entrance that the foot troops have to take in. At the flick of a lever it fills with magma and burninates the orcs to death, its like an industrial scale steel smelting plant :D
Anyway I feel like a fool for asking, but where the heck is the mithril? Im sure its mentioned somewhere but ive missed it.
Post by: Randall Octagonapus on September 20, 2009, 06:59:28 pm
But I found the awsomest bug ever
I embarked with a pet gremlin and when i got there he showed up as a gremlin hunter then he went aroung killing geese and eating there corpses and got to talented restler and then died of thirst when all of the lakes dried up
Post by: The13thRonin on September 20, 2009, 07:15:06 pm
I'm going to be out of commission for awhile.
Mithril can be found in gold, silver and platinum.
And you must have altered the RAWS because it's impossible to get gremlin as pets on embark.
Post by: Randall Octagonapus on September 20, 2009, 07:25:54 pm
Post by: Sphalerite on September 21, 2009, 08:57:40 am
Is the geese everywhere behavior intended, and is anyone else seeing it too?Dig Deeper geese are monsters. My dwarves are safely locked up in an underground fortress, but every year I need to send my soldiers outside to escort the caravans and trade liaisons past an army of bloodthirsty geese. And then while underground, I see periodic messages pop up describing how the geese are murdering all the stray rabbits and other wild animals on the map. The river runs red with the blood of geese-murdered carp. At least they chase the kobolds away.
Post by: Shiv on September 21, 2009, 11:55:06 am
Post by: Wilm0chimp on September 21, 2009, 06:41:20 pm
I save scummed to when he first arrived, and tried to burninate him with magma but he seems to fly, not sure if hes magma proof or just flew over it.
Any ideas?
Post by: The13thRonin on September 22, 2009, 12:37:02 am
I have a bugger of a problem thats cropped up. A megabeast arrived, except hes an undead vampire lord thats the leader of a civilization (not sure which one). He doesnt attack my guys, my soldiers leave him alone but the civilians seem to run away from him. He goes around destroying my buildings, and there is nothing I can do about it.
I save scummed to when he first arrived, and tried to burninate him with magma but he seems to fly, not sure if hes magma proof or just flew over it.
Any ideas?
The Ancient Vampire can fly so I don't think melee guys will get a chance to have a good whack at him... I don't understand why he's not attacking your guys at all... He should be... Can anyone help me isolate the problemo?
[CREATURE:ANCIENT_VAMPIRE]
[NAME:ancient vampire:ancient vampires:ancient vampiric]
[TILE:'A'][COLOR:4:0:0]
[MEGABEAST][EVIL][POWER]
[FREQUENCY:5]
[FANCIFUL][NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[NOMEAT][NOSMELLYROT][NOSKIN]
[ITEMCORPSE:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:ASH:NO_MATGLOSS]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][NOSTUN][FIREBREATH]
[NOFEAR][NONAUSEA][liKES_FIGHTING]
[CANOPENDOORS][FLIER][NOEXERT]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2][trAPAVOID]
[PREFSTRING:extreme power]
[PREFSTRING:awe inspiring wrath]
[PREFSTRING:dark nature]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2WINGS:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:NECK:THROAT:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:20]
[DAMBLOCK:20]
[EQUIPS]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:2:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH][SPECIALATTACK_SUCK_BLOOD:50:100]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:claw:claws:1:4:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LWING:flap, striking:flaps, striking:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RWING:flap, striking:flaps, striking:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[SPHERE:DARKNESS]
[SPHERE:DEPRAVITY]
[SPHERE:DEATH]
[CANNOT_UNDEAD]
Post by: Vester on September 22, 2009, 02:34:29 am
I think the Black Dragon lost.
Post by: Wilm0chimp on September 22, 2009, 09:37:26 am
Post by: AbuDhabi on September 22, 2009, 02:10:09 pm
EDIT: Screw that. I'm going Kobold Mode on the wankers -- they sieged in early summer of the first year. Given that I was making four suits of bronze plate mail, I think that means they are attracted to wealth, like a psychic beacon. Therefore, bone, shell and leather.
Post by: AbuDhabi on September 24, 2009, 05:22:14 am
I've destroyed three sieges already, with minimal casualties among the military! Unfortunately, I cannot say the same about the civilians. I'm down to about five workers.
Post by: smjjames on September 24, 2009, 08:25:17 pm
My last question didn't get answered.
Anyways, how do I 'install' the Mayday graphics into Dig Deeper? I realize that many of the new creatures won't have graphics, but I'm interested in trying out this mod. I think I'll remove the orcs since I'm looking for more resource and critter diversity mainly.
Edit: Oh yea, I don't have the vanilla version of 40D13 and the Mayday graphics modpack that I am using is version D11, so would it work if I inserted dig deeper into the mayday folder??
Post by: AbuDhabi on September 25, 2009, 02:16:56 am
Kobold mode?
Bone, leather and shell.
Post by: smjjames on September 25, 2009, 06:36:45 am
Still, could someone answer my question on using the Maydays graphics mod (with or without the changes included in the full Mayday mod) with Dig Deeper.
Edit: Actually, from the readme, looks like Dig Deeper has the stone mod (I think it's the same one as the ecostone mod mentioned in the readme) as well, just expanded to include the new stuff.
Post by: AbuDhabi on September 25, 2009, 05:27:05 pm
Anyway, is there any reason why the orcs would have stopped coming? I want to kill more hordes. :(
Post by: Osdeath on September 28, 2009, 05:49:12 pm
Post by: Grendus on September 28, 2009, 10:01:34 pm
For the record, I have an army of 20 soldiers, and that's barely enough to fight off the orcs. Two of the twenty with pitiful weapons were enough to kill the goblins. It's kind of pathetic really.
Post by: RebelZhouYuWu on September 28, 2009, 11:03:03 pm
By the time the dwarves had gotten to the supplies the orcs were on them. The orcs seperated into two groups, herding my dwarves away from the fort and towards a gaint tunnel that lead to a dead end. Knowing that the dwarves would most likely die, I had only one option left. Drafting all my dwarves, I charged the orcs, hoping my legendary miner could turn the odds. It ended in a massacre. My dwarves had not harmed a single orc. In the end, the only one injured dwarf was left. He sat in the fortress, waiting as the orcs slowly killed off everything on the map before rushing in and killing him.
Post by: Sheb on September 28, 2009, 11:54:06 pm
My first two fort were lost to raptors (Yeah, I'm a masochist). After I gen a new words without them, I started feeling the orc challenge. My third fort was lost to a goblin ambush (They showed up just after the orc and killed my two remaining crippled dwarves. :p
For my fourth fort, I built a looooooong hallway full of stone-fall trap for defence. (Yeah, next time I'll read the raw before playing).
For my fifth fort, I decided to lock myself in the mountain. First siege went away, but while I was stockpiling some wood, a second siege came. I don't know why, but every single dwarf in my fortress decided that he didn't want to pull that lever. I drafted them all, and hid them in the bedrooms underground, hoping to dig an escape tunnel and send a dwarf on a suicide mission to lock the orc inside the fortress. Well, none of them had a pick, so my plan was an epic fail. I spend a nice moment looking the Orc Axelord picklocking the bedroom's door one by one and imagining the face of the dwarves hearing the screams of pain nearer and nearer and then the unique noise of somebody picking a lock... their lock!! :p
As for my sixth fort, I decided to fight back. I immediately started training 3 dwarves as Hammerdwarves while my smith was churning out steel armor and weapons. I crushed the first siege losing only one dwarf and two dogs. (I could have fared better, but my marksdwarf decided that he absolutely needed to patrol the hallway 2 z-level under the battlfield).
Then during the next seasons, while all my dwarves were undrafted to help clen the mess, 3 squad showed up and killed them all. I couldn't help but think of the world "gangbang" when watching 15 Orcs hacking at my last, unconscious dwarf. :( (For unknown reasons, my orcs were labelled as active for all seasons)
On an interesting sidenote, I'm no playing as an adventurer. And since I stopped creation in 25 to keep the megabeast alive, there is currently more failed Mountain Hall than active settlements on the world map. :p
Anyway, good job! However, If I could add a few suggestion....
First, definitely add the Building destroyer tag to the orcs. Even if it's not useful, having an horde of Orc pillager wreacking havoc in your fortress is just more realistic. :)
Second, if you plan to do some more work on the plants, could you please make a total conversion to real ones? I enjoy having my dwarves eating potatoes and oranges, but "Longland grass" jsut don't fit in. :/
Third, I don't know if you can do something about it, but since I installed your mod, I never get any migrant on the first two years (And sometimes even later). And fighting 45 Orcs with 7 dwarves is just not possible.
Post by: Osdeath on September 29, 2009, 06:34:31 am
For my fourth fort, I built a looooooong hallway full of stone-fall trap for defence. (Yeah, next time I'll read the raw before playing).
First, definitely add the Building destroyer tag to the orcs. Even if it's not useful, having an horde of Orc pillager wreacking havoc in your fortress is just more realistic. :)
I myself took away the Orcs trap avoidance tag, i just didn't see how a big hulking orc would be agile enough to avoid having a block of limestone dropped on their head :P
And it aint hard to add the building destryoed tag, i may do that myself actually...
Post by: RumblingNoise on September 29, 2009, 08:38:28 am
Seems to work great with 40d16 aswell (Just remember to gen a new world).
Post by: Grendus on September 29, 2009, 08:50:20 am
What I usually do is bring along two untrained dwarves and have them mine for a season then switch them to wrestling. By this point I usually have a furnace industry up and running, so by the time they reach legendary wrestling I can forge them chain armor and hammers (always use blunt weapons against orcs, stuck weapons suck). When the orcs come, I draft my other miners and deck them out in chain as well, then hit the orcs with five or six armed and armored dwarves. Of course, since I modded the orc's triggers slightly (set production and trade triggers to 2, but pop is still 1) I usually don't get sieges until after my first migrant wave, but even then it's not as huge a deal as you think. It just takes some preparation.
Alternatively, you can lock yourself in. I almost did that for my first siege in this fort, but I decided I didn't want to have to sort through all the elves crap that would invariably be left there when the berserked. I bought everything that wasn't large clothing for a single platinum goblet. I hateses the elves.
Post by: RebelZhouYuWu on September 29, 2009, 01:23:42 pm
I myself took away the Orcs trap avoidance tag, i just didn't see how a big hulking orc would be agile enough to avoid having a block of limestone dropped on their head :P
And it aint hard to add the building destryoed tag, i may do that myself actually...
Don't think of it as the orcs are dodging and avoiding you traps. Instead think of it as they are so tough that falling rocks will simply shatter and fall harmlessly off the orcs, that weapon traps break after the weapon harmless bounces off the orc's tough skin which causes the orc to then snap the weapon in half, and that orcs smash out of the any cages they find themself in.
Anyways, I think I devised a safe method to fight orcs. The idea to fight the orcs in giant rooms filled with cage traps. Why? Because the cage traps will only activate when someone falls unconscious. So when a dwarf knock an orc unconscious he doesn't waste the time to finish off the orc and instead will fight the remaining orcs, as the cage trap instantly activates and the orc is removed from the battle. Also as soon as that orc is captured he is marked as killed in the eyes of the other orcs, leading to faster retreats from the orcs. The cage trap will also trap dwarves too, but, if you think about it, this is also good because once a dwarf is knocked unconscious by a orc, he is pretty much dead, so when the cage trap activates, it will take the dwarf away from combat and save his life from a mortal blow from an orc. Letting the dwarf live longer and giving him the chance to fight another day. The only pitfalls I see with this is the rush of engineers trying to fill up the cage traps, but the engineer should have no problem as long as you haven't lost the battle becuase the engineer will just run away from the orcs if their still there and the orcs will be distracted by your military to try to chase the dwarf.
All in all, it seems like a good idea, and allows you to include orcs in your zoo without resorting to cave-ins or tag editing.
Post by: Angellus on October 03, 2009, 04:07:27 pm
If so, I dig deeper :D
Would it be possible to make a changelist on the first post by the way? I would like to know what changed from 1.2 which I am using to 1.3.
Bloody great mod!
I'm always busy with constructions and tend to forget them, leaving entrances open undefended, goblins never made me feel this, the critters in this mod do :)
Post by: Vester on October 03, 2009, 09:12:01 pm
Post by: Devast on October 03, 2009, 09:27:57 pm
Post by: Angellus on October 04, 2009, 04:44:58 am
You could give Gobbo's the [trAPAVOID] tag instead, and make them harder to deal with somehow.Nah, I like the traps to be something that attacks relentless.
I also lay upon myself a mandate of no more then 5 traps a year :)
Post by: Troas on October 05, 2009, 06:40:40 pm
Post by: Leonidas on October 07, 2009, 04:30:38 am
This mod is like a McGyver episode: You have a limited time in which to build a machine. And if you mess it up in any way, then you're probably dead.
My only complaint: I flooded some outdoor stone and built plots to try some of the new above-ground crops. I couldn't plant anything on them. I could only plant outdoor crops on actual outdoor soil. Was that intentional?
Post by: Troas on October 07, 2009, 04:42:11 pm
By the way - could you check your forge armor list for me and see if plate mail shows up? It isn't on my list after loading the mod, just breastplates.
Post by: Lyrax on October 08, 2009, 01:21:55 am
How easy/difficult would it be to merge this mod with Civforge?Very easy. Just add the orcs from DD to CivForge (both creature AND entity) and presto! There you are.
Both of them change the metals around a lot, but the changes are more numerous in CivForge and CF has almost all the changes that DD has.
Oh, you'll also have to make sure the GROWDUR values on your crops are as high as DD sets them, in order to get the real experience.
Post by: The13thRonin on October 08, 2009, 03:20:46 am
How easy/difficult would it be to merge this mod with Civforge?Very easy. Just add the orcs from DD to CivForge (both creature AND entity) and presto! There you are.
Both of them change the metals around a lot, but the changes are more numerous in CivForge and CF has almost all the changes that DD has.
Oh, you'll also have to make sure the GROWDUR values on your crops are as high as DD sets them, in order to get the real experience.
I thought DD had more changes than CF? Not that it's very important in the grand scheme of things... CF is of course a great mod, highly recommended.
Sorry about my absence... Still in the middle of exams... Should finish by 2-3 weeks... Keep the thread alive in my absence, I still read even if I can't find the time to post ;).
Post by: Dwarf on October 08, 2009, 06:53:17 am
Post by: The13thRonin on October 08, 2009, 09:44:49 am
I'm confused. Is White Marble a flux, being a marble type?
All versions of marble are flux.
Post by: Lyrax on October 08, 2009, 11:07:49 am
DD has new craft names that CF doesn't have, I think it alters the plants more, and I'm fairly certain CF has neither orcs nor pizza. And DD probably has more new wood names.
EDIT: Oh I forgot! DD does have lots of surface plants CF doesn't have. I forgot those because I deleted almost all of them when I played DD.
Post by: Grendus on October 08, 2009, 09:51:03 pm
You could give Gobbo's the [trAPAVOID] tag instead, and make them harder to deal with somehow.
Wouldn't make them much more dangerous. Usually it's my haulers who walk into them, then whichever soldier dwarf happens to be getting some fresh air goes and knocks their green asses back to the tower that sent them.
I am loving Dig Deeper though. Very fun mod. I admit, I deleted marble of all types, but that's because I hate marble. Now I have a bunch of sites with magma and limestone, very nice. I don't really consider this cheating, since these sites existed before they were just much rarer.
Post by: Vester on October 08, 2009, 11:55:49 pm
And I've lost the occasional woodcutter or soldier to a gobbo ambush, but only when there are crossbowgobs in the squad. But then crossbows are a different matter entirely.
Post by: Grendus on October 09, 2009, 09:05:18 am
It helps 'em snatch children, though. :D
And I've lost the occasional woodcutter or soldier to a gobbo ambush, but only when there are crossbowgobs in the squad. But then crossbows are a different matter entirely.
I use chained guard animals as a secondary defense. I suppose it would make my traps almost entirely obsolete, of course, except to catch the occasional unfortunate who gets stunned into them.
I wish there was a partial trap avoid, that's what I would give the orcs. If only, say, 30% of traps hit them, you would still have to have a military defense, but you could set up traps to thin their numbers. Combined with getting stuck, traps would remain useful without becoming as overpowered as they are now.
Of course, I still think that all traps should be single use. Weapon traps should just have the advantage of doing more damage and being easier to reload, at the cost of requiring more expensive components.
Post by: GenericOverusedName on October 09, 2009, 10:07:43 am
Tyrannosaurs are quadrupeds, for some reason!
Post by: Dwarf on October 09, 2009, 04:42:30 pm
Somehow, on embark, I can never get battle axes... they're, like, just not there!
I'm using the DD mod with mayday over it, if it helps...
Post by: CautionToTheWind on October 09, 2009, 06:20:02 pm
Post by: CautionToTheWind on October 09, 2009, 06:21:59 pm
Post by: Vester on October 09, 2009, 06:27:48 pm
When I ran worldgen THEY WIPED OUT THE ORCS. ALL THE ORCS. And most of the Elves, and Kobolds. It was terrifying to behold.
Next I'll try giving them Wyvern mounts. For great justice.
Post by: Koeteren on October 11, 2009, 04:17:14 pm
I've installed Dig Deeper and now that I finally have extra iron around I noticed that I can't forge plate mail - it has been replaced by breastplate. Is this as intended? If not where should I look for the cause? I browsed the item_armor.txt file and the entry for plate armor remains there, unchanged as far as I can tell. entity_default.txt has [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL:COMMON] in addition to a tag for ITEM_ARMOR_CHESTPLATE. I'm not sure where else to look.
Confirmed bug. Can't figure out what the problem is, however modding out breastplate entirely fixes it.
/K
Post by: eviscerator on October 12, 2009, 02:51:31 pm
Post by: Leonidas on October 12, 2009, 03:45:17 pm
I've installed Dig Deeper and now that I finally have extra iron around I noticed that I can't forge plate mail - it has been replaced by breastplate. Is this as intended? . . .
Confirmed bug. Can't figure out what the problem is, however modding out breastplate entirely fixes it.
/K
I'm not too clear on modding. From what I can tell, just deleting item_armor_extended.txt would require a world regen. But could I avoid the world regen and keep my current fortress if I merely change all the values for the breastplate so that they're exactly the same as plate mail?
Post by: Wikiwaka on October 13, 2009, 02:37:04 pm
Post by: Samyotix on October 14, 2009, 04:37:54 am
Here's some quotes from this very thread... and I only went back to page 17 or so.
CautionToTheWind: The Orcs came. (...) All 36 dwarves were recruited and ordered to swarm the invading Orcs. (...) a few Orcs were harmed and 36 dwarves slaughtered.
AbuDhabi: Jesus Kwisatz Haderach. This mod really is FUN. I've been destroyed six times by the orcs. Once, they came in the first Autumn. Usually, they come later, but after the first wave, they are not defeatable by any trick I know... that I've tried so far. Perhaps magma rushing them will work. Perhaps the only option is to shut off all contact with the outside world, and train the champions to demi-gods clad in masterful armour.
Grendus: For the record, I have an army of 20 soldiers, and that's barely enough to fight off the orcs. Two [soldiers] with pitiful weapons were enough to kill the goblins.
RebelZhouYuWu: Drafting all my dwarves, I charged the orcs, hoping my legendary miner could turn the odds. It ended in a massacre. My dwarves had not harmed a single orc.
Sheb: I couldn't help but think of the world "gangbang" when watching 15 Orcs hacking at my last, unconscious dwarf.
Angellus: Hmmm, I'm digging less deep due to being murdered all the time XD Great mod!
CautionToTheWind: Urist McUrist cancels rest: Interrupted by Orc Axe Lord.
Shiv: I Dug Deeper once, and it kicked my ass for several embarks. Kept getting orc sieges with only 7 dwarves
Archgaden: With the caravan guards wiped out and about 15 orcs charging, I pulled my marksdwarves back to my wrestlers to engage the charging orcs. What ensued was a terrible brawl. My marksdwarves got off a few more shots before being stuck in the melee. Many of the orcs ran off to chase civilian dwarves and things got hairy. It took quite a while for my military to finish off the [Orcs], but they did. I ended up with only 3 of my soldiers left alive, and lost a handful of civilians (3 or 4).
waldo: i could never hold the fort for over a year because orcs would always siege twice a year minimum. so the first try i died horribly, seriously, it was pitiful, maybe only 1 or two marksdwarfs and nothing to section off my fort from the edge of the map. i ended up dying in the winter.
n.dravid: I built a ton of cage and stone-falls to stop a recent orc siege. Had no idea they had [trAPAVOID]. Forty five dwarves die fast to Super-Orcishly Tough Pikemen...
Archgaden: The caravan suffered 100% casualties, and my military struck down to less than half of its numbers. I suffered about 10% civilian losses as a few orcs managed to make it into the fort (...) Sieges are keeping me shut in for most of the year now.
Pyrophoricity: I'm into my third year of a Dig Deeper Fort, Orcs rolled up and were perilously close to wiping everyone out
Phazer: [Orcs have] NoPain,NoFear. as a summary: they wont back down even if you kill half of them in front of another group, goblins would have fled but orcs just mindlessly charge.
Lyrax: I really do like this mod. However, I think you went a little overboard on the orcs. Trapavoid? Really? I don't think you're giving dwarven ingenuity enough credit, here. And they show up waaay before your fortress has anything to loot. Why, I had one siege show up before my first dwarven caravan! This took me by surprise, and needless to say they merrily slaughtered all my dwarves. But you made me rethink all my strategies with this mod, and you've made me lose.
The13thRonin: The great thing about the orcs is that every time you beat them they will regroup and come at you even harder next season. Sometimes you will be able to pick them off using ditches and archers but most of the time they will keep you inside, stuffing up your farming endeavors, preventing supplies from getting to you and killing migrants
Post by: Grendus on October 14, 2009, 11:01:07 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on October 15, 2009, 04:25:06 am
Just had my first visit from an ancient vampire. A bunch of orcs spawned on top of him. He wiped out about half of the orcs before they overwhelmed him. An underwhelming first appearance of a megabeast, if I do say so myself.
I'll bolster them but it was probably just bad luck that he lost. Chances are he got pierced through the heart by a bolt or an arrow. The Ancient Vampires can fly and use pyrotechnics. Another way they can die is if a wing is pierced they fall to the ground and get swarmed by the hordes of orcs.
The orcs are a threat in their own right...
Post by: Grendus on October 15, 2009, 06:43:35 am
I'm iffy on using fire for megabeasts though. Right now fire is so imbalanced as a weapon due to poor dwarf AI. They won't stop drop and roll, nor will they actively seek to throw themselves into water. You have to manually immerse them to stop the fire, which basically makes it a deathblow unless you're already prepared. I had to savescum a previous time after a green dragon lit one of my marksdwarves on fire and he proceeded to go for a drink, lighting the entrance to my fortress and wood stockpile on his way. Dwarf fire AI is god awful.
Honestly, megabeasts are underwhelming in general in fortress mode. As you said, the orcs are a threat in their own right, any fortress capable of surviving multiple sieges of the greenskins will be a fairly strong military, and as much of an advantage as size is, numbers play an equally significant role.
As a side note, I've only seen one group of orc bowmen, the vampire had his left eye hacked out with an axe and then wrestlers snapped both of his arms and a wing before my dwarves smashed him. He was just overwhelmed, I honestly would expect nothing less from being swarmed by 15 orcs.
Post by: Sphalerite on October 15, 2009, 02:07:24 pm
My current (second) Dig Deeper fortress has an elaborate, overcomplicated system of water-powered bridges, metal floodgates and pits. It usually manages to destroy any invader before they can get inside. Cheesy I know, but I'm building a megaproject and don't want to have to dedicate half my population to the military. Even so nearly all of the deaths I've had in the fort have been due to orcs and my failure to appreciate how dangerous elite orc archers can be when taking target-or-opportunity potshots at dwarves atop the walls or deep in the invader trash collection pits. I seriously underestimated how far they can shoot.
Post by: abculatter_2 on October 15, 2009, 04:24:11 pm
Quote
ore of mercury, powdered gives vermilion dye
[MATGLOSS_STONE:CINNABAR]
[NAME:cinnabar][COLOR:4:7:1][TILE:156]
[ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE:VEIN:100]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:SHALE:VEIN:100]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:QUARTZITE:VEIN:100]
[ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
Is this from Dig Deeper or vanilla Dwarf Fortress?
Post by: Dwarf on October 16, 2009, 05:33:27 am
I found something in the raws;Quoteore of mercury, powdered gives vermilion dye
[MATGLOSS_STONE:CINNABAR]
[NAME:cinnabar][COLOR:4:7:1][TILE:156]
[ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE:VEIN:100]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:SHALE:VEIN:100]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:QUARTZITE:VEIN:100]
[ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
Is this from Dig Deeper or vanilla Dwarf Fortress?
DD.
Post by: Zargen on October 16, 2009, 08:15:31 am
Scratch that. I guess they managed to kill themselves or my dwarves killed them. Some are actually alive....ew, covered in vomit goo and slime
Post by: Sphalerite on October 16, 2009, 11:56:19 am
I found something in the raws;Quoteore of mercury, powdered gives vermilion dye
[MATGLOSS_STONE:CINNABAR]
[NAME:cinnabar][COLOR:4:7:1][TILE:156]
[ENVIRONMENT:IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE:VEIN:100]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:SHALE:VEIN:100]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:QUARTZITE:VEIN:100]
[ITEM_SYMBOL:'*']
Is this from Dig Deeper or vanilla Dwarf Fortress?
Just checked my copy of vanilla DF (40d11). That note's in there, so this is not a Dig Deeper modification. Of course at the moment there's no way to powder ore to make dye in either vanilla DF or DD, so it's an irrelevant note.
Post by: Leonidas on October 16, 2009, 06:30:52 pm
Post by: Grendus on October 16, 2009, 09:07:58 pm
The end result? One permanent invalid affectionately called "Lefty" and another now-marksdwarf known to his friends as "Dimbeard". And when I say lefty, I mean really. His entire right side is just... gone! The only thing that kept it from being a massacre was they spread out right before she sprayed them, so 4 of the 20 stayed unwebbed. But seriously, I had upwards of 30 multi-legendary dwarves fighting the thing and it was close. If she had stunned all of them, she kills fast enough that there could easily have been 8 or 9 casualties before the marksdwarves killed her or they got unstunned.
Also, I take back the part about lefty. His new name is "Torso boy". That really sucks.
Strike that again. He bled to death.
Edit: A cat walked over the webs I had carefully put restricted zones over. He got butchered by the trap under it. So now I'm out both some extremely valuable cloth and a cat. Freaking GCSQ!
Post by: Tyrael the Archangel on October 16, 2009, 09:16:32 pm
Post by: Leonidas on October 17, 2009, 02:03:45 am
I downloaded it but the data folder only has speech for some reason :-\That's as it should be. Most of the mod is in the Raw folder.
Post by: Tyrael the Archangel on October 17, 2009, 03:18:49 am
Post by: Fisherdwarf on October 17, 2009, 05:39:55 am
I went to the download page and one thing it said is that you changed bronze to be stronger than iron.
...why? Is it because casserite is rare? Iron in the real world has always been stronger, and iron weapons over bronze was a HUGE advantage in ancient times.
I'm sorry, but bronze over iron just really bugs me somehow....And I want this mod. I can change the raws somehow right? I really don't know how to do that.
Post by: The13thRonin on October 17, 2009, 06:23:34 am
This might have been said earlier in the topic, but...
I went to the download page and one thing it said is that you changed bronze to be stronger than iron.
...why? Is it because casserite is rare? Iron in the real world has always been stronger, and iron weapons over bronze was a HUGE advantage in ancient times.
I'm sorry, but bronze over iron just really bugs me somehow....And I want this mod. I can change the raws somehow right? I really don't know how to do that.
That's misinformation. Bronze is in many ways a superior metal to iron. The reason that the iron-age took over from the bronze age is that it was cheaper, easier to work and lighter. Just because something is newer doesn't always mean it is better. For example the ancient Greeks, Carthaginians and Romans developed many advances in their societies that we have expanded on today. The Romans built roads, aqueducts, sewerage and other great works... After Rome fell people went back to beating each other over the head with sticks for 1,000 years...
Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze
"Though bronze is generally harder than wrought iron, with Vickers hardnesses of 60-258 vs 30-80, the Bronze Age gave way to the Iron Age; this happened because iron was easier to find. Bronze was still used during the Iron Age, but for many purposes the weaker wrought iron was found to be sufficiently strong. Archaeologists suspect that a serious disruption of the tin trade precipitated the transition. The population migrations around 1200 – 1100 BC reduced the shipping of tin around the Mediterranean (and from Great Britain), limiting supplies and raising prices. As ironworking improved, iron became cheaper; and as cultures advanced from wrought iron to forged iron, they learned how to make steel, which is stronger than bronze and holds a sharper edge longer."
Ohgod, was just attacked by a Giant Cave Spider Queen. None of my legendary marksdwarves using master-freakin-work bolts could even scratch the thing, I had to dogpile her with hammerdwarves.
The end result? One permanent invalid affectionately called "Lefty" and another now-marksdwarf known to his friends as "Dimbeard". And when I say lefty, I mean really. His entire right side is just... gone! The only thing that kept it from being a massacre was they spread out right before she sprayed them, so 4 of the 20 stayed unwebbed. But seriously, I had upwards of 30 multi-legendary dwarves fighting the thing and it was close. If she had stunned all of them, she kills fast enough that there could easily have been 8 or 9 casualties before the marksdwarves killed her or they got unstunned.
Also, I take back the part about lefty. His new name is "Torso boy". That really sucks.
Strike that again. He bled to death.
Edit: A cat walked over the webs I had carefully put restricted zones over. He got butchered by the trap under it. So now I'm out both some extremely valuable cloth and a cat. Freaking GCSQ!
Bahahaha... Your engravers will be engraving GCSQ murder for decades! I'm glad that it went so well... GCSQ's are probably the most powerful entity in the existing world... They existed in the age of angels and reapers during the first war and are probably the ONLY thing that survived through to the present day, deep underground in their monstrous lairs...
[Note to self... Buff GCSQ's hahahahahaha].
Post by: AlienChickenPie on October 17, 2009, 07:26:43 am
It was fun, but I imagine that the same dwarves decked in armor would have kicked mammoth ass.
The mammoths ought to be stronger.
Post by: Fisherdwarf on October 17, 2009, 07:38:08 am
Sorry for being stupid.
Post by: Leonidas on October 17, 2009, 10:37:13 am
But enough about that. Why won't my dwarves wear their great helms? Are other people seeing this, or is it something weird my my particular game?
Post by: Dwarf on October 17, 2009, 10:38:00 am
...Oh. All my life people have been telling me iron is superior to bronze in all ways. :-\??? What?
Sorry for being stupid.
It really IS superior in all ways. It's - depending on the bronze - lighter, mostly more common, harder, less ductile...
Post by: Grendus on October 17, 2009, 01:42:49 pm
Ohgod, was just attacked by a Giant Cave Spider Queen. None of my legendary marksdwarves using master-freakin-work bolts could even scratch the thing, I had to dogpile her with hammerdwarves.
The end result? One permanent invalid affectionately called "Lefty" and another now-marksdwarf known to his friends as "Dimbeard". And when I say lefty, I mean really. His entire right side is just... gone! The only thing that kept it from being a massacre was they spread out right before she sprayed them, so 4 of the 20 stayed unwebbed. But seriously, I had upwards of 30 multi-legendary dwarves fighting the thing and it was close. If she had stunned all of them, she kills fast enough that there could easily have been 8 or 9 casualties before the marksdwarves killed her or they got unstunned.
Also, I take back the part about lefty. His new name is "Torso boy". That really sucks.
Strike that again. He bled to death.
Edit: A cat walked over the webs I had carefully put restricted zones over. He got butchered by the trap under it. So now I'm out both some extremely valuable cloth and a cat. Freaking GCSQ!
Bahahaha... Your engravers will be engraving GCSQ murder for decades! I'm glad that it went so well... GCSQ's are probably the most powerful entity in the existing world... They existed in the age of angels and reapers during the first war and are probably the ONLY thing that survived through to the present day, deep underground in their monstrous lairs...
[Note to self... Buff GCSQ's hahahahahaha].
Actually no. All my engravings are of orcs killing wild animals or wild animals killing orcs. Kinda sucks.
Post by: PopeRichardCorey on October 17, 2009, 04:06:57 pm
I haven't had a fort last more than two years yet. I'm on my fifth fort. I love this mod.
Post by: Godwin on October 17, 2009, 07:33:52 pm
High in the mountains, where no dwarf dared to tread for fear of the ancient mythical beasts that made their homes in the many writhing caves that wormed their way down to the very depths of the world, a madman named Sodel lead an expedition of twenty degenerates and lost souls, bound for the pits of hell and without purpose. He probed the caves untouched by time, he avoided creatures too grotesque for description, he wound his way through the chasms and black pits and trenches rife with the smell of death with naught to show for it but a wide smile and a spring in his step.
One day, he made camp. He struck the earth with an old rusted pick and carved himself a place where he would be king. A king of the mad and the damned. From far and wide all the beggars, and the plague victims, and the demon worshipers threw up their hats and shouted to the good will of "Sodel, the Mad King of the ancient and the unknown!" From the cold earth he brought forth gold and iron, from the dead ground he brought forth Beer and food, and all about him rejoiced.
Armok looked down on this spectacle and was displeased. For from the mad comes no worship and no tithe, and the Mad King was godless and rebellious. And so Armok spoke to Sodel in his sleep, and said thus. "Sodel, you are a fool drenched in his own pride. You have forsaken me, and I shall forsake you in turn. For all your accomplishments are as nothing to me, as the cities of ants are as nothing to the giants. In seven days an army of Orcs, every one a mirror of your lunacy and outrage, will descend upon you and crush all you have wrought. Heed this warning, and prepare for your destruction."
Sodel awoke the next morning, smiling as he always did, but now invigorated with new found purpose. For six days and seven nights he toiled, oblivious to the world around him and full of joy. And on the seventh day the Orcs did come, and they stormed upon the keep and slaughtered all within. But there, at the end of a long hallway stood Sodel, laughing maniacally.
Filled with the wrath of Armok, the Orcs charged at the lone dwarf. But as they charged, they were one by one ensnared in elaborate and cruel traps. One Orc was caught by both arms and legs, only to be slowly torn apart. another was caught between two stones and slowly crushed to death. Each trap was unique and clever as it was gruesome and terrible. But the leader of the Orcs was a cunning swordmaster, and he was not caught. He stood behind the others as they were picked off one by one. And when all the Orcs were dead or dying, and all the traps sprung, he threw himself at Sodel, and just as his blade fell, and the power of Armok turned the stone in the hall to slag, and the laughter of the Mad King reached it crescendo, a huge steel box descended from the ceiling, fell onto him and went right through the floor.
The container fell into an infinite black pit, the laughter following it into the depths of existence. And as Sodel laughed, Armok said a final word to him. "Mad King, you have avoided my attack and rebuffed my anger. You are truly a man worthy of song. So now, in my mercy, I shall give you a final gift; immortality. May you live forever under the mountains you call your domain."
And the laughter stopped.
Based on a true story.
Post by: The13thRonin on October 17, 2009, 09:41:27 pm
About the great helms... I'm fixing them in an update after I finish this week's exams... I'm not sure if I intended them for dwarves to wear... I think I did... I'll check the entity files...
Post by: Grendus on October 18, 2009, 09:52:13 pm
If I have one complaint about the orcs, it's that it takes them too long to realize they're dead. Several of them were stumbling around the courtyard with mangled hearts and lungs, taking even more bolts until they finally bled out. Final tally - 50 dead orcs, 0 dwarves. I don't think the bow orcs even returned fire, the only arrows shot were in the final charge when the orcs were retreating and I ordered the hammerdwarves after them.
Honestly, the orcs are a fierce enemy that scare the crap out of me. But dwarves don't crap. It was a perfect trap with experienced, professional soldiers, very fun, even moreso than death towering my goblins.
Oh yea, Godwin, awesome story. Trappable orcs aren't quite as scary, but it's a good read nonetheless.
Edit: On a completely different note, watermelons scare me. I've been doing some aboveground farming to give my dwarves some variety, and the giant green O's of watermelons are exactly the same as orc bowmen. I always do a double take on the dining floor when I see dwarves eating a bow orc.
Post by: Leonidas on October 19, 2009, 04:01:49 am
Post by: The13thRonin on October 19, 2009, 08:08:32 am
Ronin, you might want to adjust the cost of Cobaltite for the embark screen. It's way too cheap at three points per unit compared to 24 for iron ores.
A very good suggestion... Noted...
Post by: Lofn on October 19, 2009, 09:29:25 am
Quote
[02:34] <@Lofn> I just set a trap to drop the orcs into my magma moat, right. Bridge and a lever, simple stuff.
[02:35] <@Lofn> I killed all of them. Except for one, who was catapaulted over the ditches, past the marksdwarves, down my main corridor and right into main stairwell.
[02:35] <@Lofn> Her name is Doomchaos and she is a hammerlord.
I love this mod.
Post by: The13thRonin on October 19, 2009, 11:34:37 am
Quote[02:34] <@Lofn> I just set a trap to drop the orcs into my magma moat, right. Bridge and a lever, simple stuff.
[02:35] <@Lofn> I killed all of them. Except for one, who was catapaulted over the ditches, past the marksdwarves, down my main corridor and right into main stairwell.
[02:35] <@Lofn> Her name is Doomchaos and she is a hammerlord.
I love this mod.
:o was that the end of that fortress?
Post by: Shizzar on October 19, 2009, 04:16:41 pm
Post by: Leonidas on October 20, 2009, 03:44:59 am
1) Every invader must die. No lockouts.
2) Every kill must be by a dwarf. No mechanical kills or animal kills.
3) Drops are allowed up to 3 levels.
My first summer I got 15 orcs: 7 wrestlers, 7 macemen, and a bowman. And killed them all.
I love this mod!
Post by: Lofn on October 20, 2009, 04:25:41 am
:o was that the end of that fortress?
Indeed it was. She was finally brought down by my hastily-recruited military (about twenty untrained dwarves and ten marksdwarves), but not before killing fifteen of them and sending the rest into a tantrum spiral.
Then the second orc wave showed up.
Good times.
Post by: Grendus on October 21, 2009, 08:54:43 am
Post by: skaltum on October 21, 2009, 11:31:05 am
Post by: Tyrael the Archangel on October 21, 2009, 11:58:20 pm
Post by: skaltum on October 22, 2009, 11:54:51 am
[EDIT]
heres a link to the wiki. it'll help you
http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Matgloss_tokens
it lists the relevent metal related tokens for weapons armor etc
Post by: Helmaroc on October 24, 2009, 09:15:10 pm
This mod is really great, I'm glad to find another mod that adds to the game without changing the feel...
I haven't used a major mod since one I tried sometime about two Christmases ago...I can't remember the name, but I'm pretty sure the guy just called them -[insert username]'s mod, and he released it at least twice. He was open to people's suggestions and would add them. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
But anyway, thanks for working on this project. Oh, and orcs are crazy.
Post by: Zargen on October 24, 2009, 10:25:09 pm
First Orc attacked the beginning of my second year. Slaughtered immigrants. At first I was like. Pfft. 4 wrestler and 4 lashers only? Then I noticed their full steel platemail. Wrestlers got destroyed by bolt fire. Lashers ran up and used their horrible steel death whips to impale orcs through various bodyparts. Only way I beat them away was by destroying the bridge across my moat and sealing all the doors ::)
Post by: Helmaroc on October 24, 2009, 10:34:28 pm
I started out a fortress and sometime in the first or second year an ambush wiped them out. I reclaimed and now there are 4 'friendly' orcs on the map. They've been there for 6 years, and have never harmed a dwarf of mine. They do, however, kill merchants, which impairs me to some extent. My question is, will I ever be sieged/ambushed/warred upon by the orc civ, and will the 4 orcs currently on the map ever turn hostile?
Post by: Wheatloaf on October 25, 2009, 06:06:56 pm
One question though. I skimmed through the thread a bit and there was some mention of new magma safe rocks. Is there a more in depth readme (read the one in the first post) somewhere that contains this info and other tweaks from vanilla? Or if someone knows could they tell me? I'd like to get my metal industry started to outfit my army asap.
Thanks in advance!
Post by: Konrad von Richtmark on October 25, 2009, 10:49:02 pm
In my current Dig Deeper game, I can't get my dwarfs to store plants, prepared meals or meat into barrels. Only booze gets barreled, and I have an overabundance of barrels. I've already lost several batches of meals and a whole horse's worth of meat to spoilage.
Post by: Zargen on October 25, 2009, 10:57:31 pm
Post by: Konrad von Richtmark on October 25, 2009, 11:03:40 pm
If it is of any significance, it might be worth noting that it was a reclaimed fortress, and the kitchen a building left there by the former inhabitants. Same thing happened to meat left in a butchery built by me.
Post by: Great Cthulhu on October 26, 2009, 04:43:18 am
One question though. I skimmed through the thread a bit and there was some mention of new magma safe rocks. Is there a more in depth readme (read the one in the first post) somewhere that contains this info and other tweaks from vanilla? Or if someone knows could they tell me? I'd like to get my metal industry started to outfit my army asap.You could try the list from my Molten Rocks (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=894) mod, as that's where DD got the magma-safe stones from. I'm not sure what version of MR is used in DD though, so there may be a few stones that are safe in MR, but not yet in DD.
I think all versions of MR had alunite as magma-safe, though. Since you have magma, you probably have an igneous extrusive layer, and those are loaded with alunite. I'd give that a shot. :)
If I recall correctly, dolomite was also an early entry, and it comes in entire layers, so if you have it, you'll be swimming in magma-safe stone. Quartzite and chert also come in layers, but I think those were relatively late additions. If you have them, you could try dumping a stone in the magma to see if it melts or not.
Post by: Viroath on October 29, 2009, 01:25:01 am
No, haven't tried that, how could that help?
If it is of any significance, it might be worth noting that it was a reclaimed fortress, and the kitchen a building left there by the former inhabitants. Same thing happened to meat left in a butchery built by me.
Double check your
- ptions page, there is a command on Dwarves and Food there. It somehow changed on me and I lost a year's worth of crop and meat trade to it before I finally found the cause. You sound like the same issue, because they'll deal with booze just fine, but never haul food to barrels or stockpiles.
But strike the earth! I dip deeper!
Post by: anomaly on October 29, 2009, 02:13:26 pm
I want to emphasize that I would not necessarily find orcs any more difficult than usual if I simply holed up and trapped my entrance like everyone always does - it's really a quite trivial task to do - but I intentionally limit myself in this fashion, and build my town above ground. I would not have attempted such a feat if I had known beforehand that the orcs were significantly more numerous in this mod than in the other orc mod, which I had initially assumed this mod based its orcs on.
I'm not necessarily saying that this is a bad thing, only that this mod should be advertised as SUPER ORC MOD with some extra stuff, instead of EXTRA STUFF MOD with orcs because in its current form it is a bit deceptive.
In addition, I think a detailed changelog would be very helpful. I know some of the updated values of metals from picking around in the raws, for instance, but I hardly have them committed to memory and a changelog with this sort of information would allow me to quickly reference it.
Post by: jellyman on October 29, 2009, 04:20:08 pm
And it certainly is quite possible to fend off all orc sieges in this mod with nothing more than melee dwarves (at least as far as I've played).
Post by: Zargen on October 29, 2009, 09:58:47 pm
No, haven't tried that, how could that help?
If it is of any significance, it might be worth noting that it was a reclaimed fortress, and the kitchen a building left there by the former inhabitants. Same thing happened to meat left in a butchery built by me.
Well if you get rid of the kitchen with all the food still in it, the food will stay there wouldn't it after you get rid of the building? And then you just put a food storage area on where it is, thus prevent spoilage.
Post by: Grendus on October 30, 2009, 06:56:51 pm
I must say though that I hate the goblins more than the orcs currently. Orcs are polite enough to announce their arrival, goblins pop out with crossbows and open fire on my haulers. Just lost a hauler and a hammerdwarf (who got hit in the spine by a lucky shot then passed out in combat) to the goblins.
On the bright side, I have a new megaproject planned - goblin plachinko!
Post by: Thelogman on October 30, 2009, 09:28:31 pm
I like the additions of the new metals and such, as well as the monsters and weapons and seeds and whatnot. Seeing all these new plants and foods has been really cool, especially since it's motivating me to gather overland more, which adds more diet variety.
But DAMN those ORCS are nasty.
I just got hit with my first siege and they killed...13 Dwarves.
I had a really nice trap hallway all set up with cages and swords and spears, but I'm pretty sure you're changed around the AI a bit, haven't you?
Or something.
Because instead they walk all the way around my Fortress to a secret entrance I built for the fisherdwarves, go down the stairs, smash open a locked door?! and then proceed to murder my entire crew. My Champion military is all dead, and the only reason I survived was my 6 legendary Miners and Artifact makers that I drafted.
So I know that they at least know to avoid traps, and smash doors, both of which were surprising and frightening to me.
Also, I saw like 6 of them walk across my entire trap hallway at least 2 times each without a scratch. Which is really surprising, since they passed at least 3 cage traps and 3 weapons traps each time. Do Traps work less in this mod and are ORCS immune to traps or something?
Luckily, some migrants just arrived with a Dungeon Master, which is nice.
On the con side, my super ranger is dead, which is disappointing, since he was hunting unicorns (He already got one and was about to bag another when the ORCS came).
Post by: smjjames on October 30, 2009, 09:31:29 pm
Post by: Thelogman on October 30, 2009, 10:22:54 pm
Post by: 3 on October 30, 2009, 11:53:40 pm
Post by: Canadark on November 01, 2009, 12:13:30 am
[LOCKPICKER] renders [trAPAVOID] redundant anyway (it includes the trapavoid effect), so if you're planning on cheating, remember to get rid of that tag as well.
My last fortress just got completely rocked by the orcs because they pranced right over my insane weapon and cage traps.
Deleted.
Post by: The13thRonin on November 01, 2009, 10:42:06 am
[LOCKPICKER] renders [trAPAVOID] redundant anyway (it includes the trapavoid effect), so if you're planning on cheating, remember to get rid of that tag as well.
My last fortress just got completely rocked by the orcs because they pranced right over my insane weapon and cage traps.
Deleted.
Well... Some are born ready and others just can't handle the fire :P.
Post by: Leonidas on November 01, 2009, 09:02:01 pm
Post by: darkflagrance on November 01, 2009, 10:18:11 pm
I'd worry more about fps loss due to loot build-up.
Post by: Canadark on November 01, 2009, 10:59:23 pm
[LOCKPICKER] renders [trAPAVOID] redundant anyway (it includes the trapavoid effect), so if you're planning on cheating, remember to get rid of that tag as well.
My last fortress just got completely rocked by the orcs because they pranced right over my insane weapon and cage traps.
Deleted.
Well... Some are born ready and others just can't handle the fire :P.
See, I always try to have a backup in these kinds of situations. Alone, my traps could have handled the orcs easily. To top it off, I had about a dozen marksdwarfs with the very best Hairy Marmot bone bolts money could buy.
Then you decided to give the orcs steel armour from head to toe.
Sweet balls of Armok, man.
Post by: Sheb on November 01, 2009, 11:52:07 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on November 02, 2009, 03:28:43 am
[LOCKPICKER] renders [trAPAVOID] redundant anyway (it includes the trapavoid effect), so if you're planning on cheating, remember to get rid of that tag as well.
My last fortress just got completely rocked by the orcs because they pranced right over my insane weapon and cage traps.
Deleted.
Well... Some are born ready and others just can't handle the fire :P.
See, I always try to have a backup in these kinds of situations. Alone, my traps could have handled the orcs easily. To top it off, I had about a dozen marksdwarfs with the very best Hairy Marmot bone bolts money could buy.
Then you decided to give the orcs steel armour from head to toe.
Sweet balls of Armok, man.
Ick... Traps? Goblin treachery that's what them are! Nothing more dwarfly than getting up in an orcs face with a war-hammer. I take it you haven't encountered a GCSQ yet? Destroyer of worlds she be! Next update shall make the glowing pits more terrifying as well as deep river/chasm attacks deadlier. I'm considering giving orcs building_destroyer again too... Will they destroy traps with this tag?
I've started work on this project again... Have been delayed by school-work but I only have 2 pieces of assessment left now.
Keep reminding me if you see bugs or glitches in the game because of Dig Deeper.
PS - And don't forget to rate/comment the download page or attach:
Code: [Select]
[CENTER] [url=http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35736.0][b]I'm Digging Deeper, You Should Too![/b][/url]to your signature.
Post by: Canadark on November 02, 2009, 03:14:12 pm
[LOCKPICKER] renders [trAPAVOID] redundant anyway (it includes the trapavoid effect), so if you're planning on cheating, remember to get rid of that tag as well.
My last fortress just got completely rocked by the orcs because they pranced right over my insane weapon and cage traps.
Deleted.
Well... Some are born ready and others just can't handle the fire :P.
See, I always try to have a backup in these kinds of situations. Alone, my traps could have handled the orcs easily. To top it off, I had about a dozen marksdwarfs with the very best Hairy Marmot bone bolts money could buy.
Then you decided to give the orcs steel armour from head to toe.
Sweet balls of Armok, man.
Ick... Traps? Goblin treachery that's what them are! Nothing more dwarfly than getting up in an orcs face with a war-hammer. I take it you haven't encountered a GCSQ yet? Destroyer of worlds she be! Next update shall make the glowing pits more terrifying as well as deep river/chasm attacks deadlier. I'm considering giving orcs building_destroyer again too... Will they destroy traps with this tag?
I've started work on this project again... Have been delayed by school-work but I only have 2 pieces of assessment left now.
Keep reminding me if you see bugs or glitches in the game because of Dig Deeper.
PS - And don't forget to rate/comment the download page or attach:Code: [Select][CENTER] [url=http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35736.0][b]I'm Digging Deeper, You Should Too![/b][/url]
to your signature.
Doneski. I guess I have a lot to learn about proper defense.
Post by: Grendus on November 03, 2009, 01:16:06 pm
[LOCKPICKER] renders [trAPAVOID] redundant anyway (it includes the trapavoid effect), so if you're planning on cheating, remember to get rid of that tag as well.
My last fortress just got completely rocked by the orcs because they pranced right over my insane weapon and cage traps.
Deleted.
Well... Some are born ready and others just can't handle the fire :P.
See, I always try to have a backup in these kinds of situations. Alone, my traps could have handled the orcs easily. To top it off, I had about a dozen marksdwarfs with the very best Hairy Marmot bone bolts money could buy.
Then you decided to give the orcs steel armour from head to toe.
Sweet balls of Armok, man.
Ick... Traps? Goblin treachery that's what them are! Nothing more dwarfly than getting up in an orcs face with a war-hammer. I take it you haven't encountered a GCSQ yet? Destroyer of worlds she be! Next update shall make the glowing pits more terrifying as well as deep river/chasm attacks deadlier. I'm considering giving orcs building_destroyer again too... Will they destroy traps with this tag?
I've started work on this project again... Have been delayed by school-work but I only have 2 pieces of assessment left now.
Keep reminding me if you see bugs or glitches in the game because of Dig Deeper.
PS - And don't forget to rate/comment the download page or attach:Code: [Select][CENTER] [url=http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35736.0][b]I'm Digging Deeper, You Should Too![/b][/url]
to your signature.
Bah, leave buildingdestroyer out. I like to cage the orcs by knocking them out with hammers first. You can't do that if they're actively destroying your traps.
The only hard thing about the orcs is them arriving in the first summer. If you can get over this, either by creating full time military early or by training your starting 7 to be viable fighters and bringing along dogs, you can handle them.
My current strategy is to bring along some dogs and seven picks, then have my dwarves alternate mining and wrestling til they get up to proficient (leaving some safe leeway so they don't end up wrestling their way into permanent military in the siege), train the dogs and assign them all, bring along some leather and a proficient leatherworker, and fight the orcs head on if they attack. Unfortunately, the last fort I did this on (beautiful fort, 5x5 embark with a 15 z-level drop on one corner and a 15 z-level mountain on the other, almost entirely flat except the top left and bottom right, with magma and limestone) had no access to the orcs, so I dunno how well it will work. I'll update when my current fort makes it.
Post by: Afthartos on November 04, 2009, 11:44:55 am
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 04, 2009, 12:22:28 pm
A total of 8 Orc Snipers where on the hills around my fort shooting down into my Champions training area -_- I lost so many i got disgusted and reverted to a save scum.
Post by: Tallefred on November 04, 2009, 02:36:45 pm
Could someone please upload a clean copy of Dig Deeper for me so I can see if it's really not working or if I'm just installing it wrong?
Post by: analog on November 04, 2009, 02:51:46 pm
I've also figured out orcs. They just really want to be dwarfs but can't really talk so have decided to conquer and replace. I just had three orc pikemasters arrive; all with a image of one of my artifacts on a piece of armor...
Post by: Grendus on November 04, 2009, 03:50:06 pm
I have this sudden urge to rig a fight between a GCSQ and a Bane Dragon, just to see who wins. My money is on the Bane Dragon, but only because I think they have [NOSTUN] making the GCSQ's webs useless while the GCSQ is still vulnerable to fire. But you never know, I've seen the GCSQ disembowel a dwarf is mid quality steel armor inside of five rounds and 11 expert to legendary marksdwarves completely failed to even scratch the damn thing.
Post by: Wheatloaf on November 05, 2009, 02:02:13 am
Also another question. What kind of temperatures/biomes contain new, savage wildlife? I embarked in untamed wilds mountain/some sort of dull forest and the worst thing I got besides orcs were wolves. I'd like to see some of the added or just really mean wildlife. Even in vanilla the worst thing I got were predatory cats, not even giant ones. If I'm gonna be playing a difficult mod I want to go full on cruel. I've tried to avoid evil terrain since I really don't like the lack of leather the undead beasties suffer from, but if that's where all the action is I'll do it. If anyone's met some sort of really vicious wildlife that is the bane of their dwarves existence please share.
One last addition; this mod is fantastic. My first fort I played with my usual vanilla style and it only made it to its third spring. I blame my insufficient military and relatively slow metalworking industry. My miners kept kicking the bucket so I avoided mining out ores till they were at a good skill level. My other problem was my lack of solid exterior fortifications to make the orcs more manageable. I embarked into a hillside with some rock but there was a plateau above me that was really too much trouble. I had plans to destroy all ramps instead of just the ones that lead into my walled off nook but they never materialized until it was too late. I held off 4 orc invasions before a local leader and the biggest orc force I'd ever seen showed up and showed me what was what. I'd struggled but managed to kill the various lords they sent at me before but this leader's force was too much. Oh well, losing's fun!
Post by: Ultima33 on November 05, 2009, 04:34:32 am
Post by: Great Cthulhu on November 05, 2009, 06:14:04 am
Bit of a late response to the response to my question here, sorry. Thanks for the info though. I got tired of waiting for a response so I started dropping random rocks in the lava. Alunite didn't melt and Mica too. So I used them for mechanisms.Mica too? Darn, I see my README needs to be updated. Thanks for the info!
Post by: Grendus on November 05, 2009, 10:41:34 am
Also another question. What kind of temperatures/biomes contain new, savage wildlife? I embarked in untamed wilds mountain/some sort of dull forest and the worst thing I got besides orcs were wolves. I'd like to see some of the added or just really mean wildlife. Even in vanilla the worst thing I got were predatory cats, not even giant ones. If I'm gonna be playing a difficult mod I want to go full on cruel. I've tried to avoid evil terrain since I really don't like the lack of leather the undead beasties suffer from, but if that's where all the action is I'll do it. If anyone's met some sort of really vicious wildlife that is the bane of their dwarves existence please share.
Embark in a terrifying biome. The slimes are worse than the orcs. The odds that you can kill them when they show up as you embark are very low unless you sacrifice half your embark package for a starting guard (which will hurt you in the mid term since you won't have the points for either food or an anvil. Terrifying biomes usually have monsters rather than undead. In my experience, haunted tends to be boring, sinister has undead, and terrifying has things like harpies, ogres, and trolls.
Post by: Afthartos on November 05, 2009, 05:12:12 pm
Post by: Leonidas on November 05, 2009, 07:45:34 pm
Post by: Randall Octagonapus on November 05, 2009, 08:30:07 pm
SO I get attacked by an ancient vampire and I send 4 legendary sword/wrestler/shield user dwarves to attack it.
im thinking it will be a piece of cake
then the vampire kills three of them and gives the other a red head wound and flies away
then a skeletal lama comes and beats the last champion to death
Post by: Derakon on November 05, 2009, 09:05:58 pm
Post by: Leonidas on November 05, 2009, 10:22:24 pm
Leonidas: seems like it would be simpler to just make orcs be lowercase 'o's instead.That would be good. Is there an ini file that'll do it?
Post by: The13thRonin on November 05, 2009, 10:26:36 pm
Leonidas: seems like it would be simpler to just make orcs be lowercase 'o's instead.That would be good. Is there an ini file that'll do it?
Go into the RAWS and find creature_new_races then change line:
[TILE:'O'][COLOR:7:0:0]
to read:
[TILE:'o'][COLOR:7:0:0]
Can I chop up some parts of your mod, like fish and plants, and put it in my mod if i give credit?
Of course. Take what you need.
would be interesting if someone incorporated dinosaurs into this mod
There are already.
Post by: Grendus on November 06, 2009, 03:34:35 pm
would be interesting if someone incorporated dinosaurs into this mod
There are already.
Holy crap, now I have to go find a savage tropical biome with magma. Holy friggin carp, a base defended by raptors and triceratops? I pity the orcs.
Edit: Don't try the whole "embark with leather and dogs" thing. I lost all the dogs and three of my starting seven in the first orc siege, and two more are wounded, plus losing one of the immigrants and another who is constantly passing out from a missing eye, I'll probably have to train her in something so she stops passing out. The farmer was tantrumming, but he calmed down. The furnituremaker threw a brief tantrum before passing out from his leg wound. This could get ugly.
Post by: Morhem on November 07, 2009, 03:07:56 am
UPD: Aww, its just catapult, sry :P
Post by: Grendus on November 07, 2009, 08:56:08 pm
The only downside is my dwarf liaison got dropped in. I nicknamed him "Orc chow" before he died though. Now I have to pump the room out, in retrospect designing the room without drainage was a bad idea on my part.
Post by: ThtblovesDF on November 08, 2009, 02:55:35 pm
Post by: Morhem on November 09, 2009, 02:24:47 pm
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1578
Post by: Morhem on November 10, 2009, 02:22:53 am
Post by: Vester on November 10, 2009, 05:01:28 am
Post by: Morhem on November 10, 2009, 05:15:53 am
Post by: Vester on November 10, 2009, 05:22:02 am
It appears to happen sometimes with Dig Deeper megabeasts, and the [POWER] tag is probably responsible.
Post by: Shrike on November 11, 2009, 11:58:06 am
Orcs are easy. They've given me more than 1k steel bars by now, and helped me conserve trees by replacing wood as the preferred bin material.
Post by: Count Dorku on November 13, 2009, 04:43:03 pm
And now I get errors whenever I try and get to where you've put the file. "Bad Gateway 502", specifically. My university internet connection hates me. (Hopefully I can re-download some other time).
Post by: Afthartos on November 16, 2009, 01:15:52 am
Post by: DarkAvenger on November 18, 2009, 05:37:02 pm
Is there a place I can see them?
Post by: Siquo on November 19, 2009, 02:16:38 pm
Here, have this
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1578
Thank you. My DF (40d13) crashed on worldgen after installing this :(
Post by: Tallefred on November 19, 2009, 08:09:14 pm
Great mod, thanks for forcing me to get better. Elaborate constructions of mass destruction are far more dwarfy than a military anyway.
Post by: Siquo on November 20, 2009, 03:52:37 am
I never lost a fort before.
Thanks for this mod!
Post by: Quietust on November 20, 2009, 03:17:28 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on November 21, 2009, 04:39:44 pm
- Re-balances goblins to be harder. And provides a binary opposite for each of the main races:
Humans - Orcs
Dwarves - Goblins
Halflings - Snotlings
Elves - Dark Elves
When you think halflings... Think hobbits... They're much smaller and less hardy than dwarves.
It's going to be a pain to implement... Lots of boring balance changes and testing... *Sigh*.
Any suggestions for the next ARC? Engravings? Plants? More creatures? More back-story?
Post by: Troy on November 21, 2009, 06:08:06 pm
Just a thought, is it possible to spawn a creature from a dug out square? i.e. instead of a stone, a creature will be spawned? that way you could add some really nice challenges for the miners ;)
Loving the mod so far though! more things to dig for, more reactions, and more stages of the reactions, not just combine 2 items get the 3d :)
Post by: KillerClowns on November 21, 2009, 09:35:39 pm
All I have to do when Orcs raid my most recent fort, carved into a glacier, is sit back and wait for them to the weather to solve my problem. Even during summer months, the wrestlers just plain die, while the archers' arms
tl;dr: Due to Orcs not having clothes, only armor, Orcish wrestlers freeze to death, and Orcish archers lose their arms, in sufficiently cold climates. I may leave the survivors alone for a few seasons and see if winter kills off those with fully covering armor.
EDIT: Oh, and ADD ME.
EDIT 2: Upon examination, the arms are still attached, just yellow wounded.
Post by: Wheatloaf on November 22, 2009, 04:48:05 am
As for
Quote
Any suggestions for the next ARC? Engravings? Plants? More creatures? More back-story?Personally I love new plants and things to do with them and also more varied wildlife. Especially dangerous wildlife. I'd say those are my top interests though engravings and back story are of course fun too.
Post by: The13thRonin on November 22, 2009, 07:38:21 am
Dig Deeper has been awesome and challenging... though there is one itsy bitsy problem. Orcs only wear armor, not clothing, right? Well, this means archers go into battle with their lower arms and hands exposed, while wrestlers charge in stark naked. "So what?" you say.
All I have to do when Orcs raid my most recent fort, carved into a glacier, is sit back and wait for them to the weather to solve my problem. Even during summer months, the wrestlers just plain die, while the archers' armsfall offbecome unusable due to frostbite. Suffice it to say, this removes their ability to use their bows. After this, I just tempt the survivors into my Corridor Of Doom, where my Marksdwarves, safely behind fortifications, fill them with ☼mammoth bone bolts☼.
tl;dr: Due to Orcs not having clothes, only armor, Orcish wrestlers freeze to death, and Orcish archers lose their arms, in sufficiently cold climates. I may leave the survivors alone for a few seasons and see if winter kills off those with fully covering armor.
EDIT: Oh, and ADD ME.
EDIT 2: Upon examination, the arms are still attached, just yellow wounded.
Thanks for that, noted. I'll fix it for the next version.
As for the eggs... At the moment you can only trade for them... Sorry... When Toady adds more functionality to the RAWS I'll expand it.
Post by: trav on November 22, 2009, 09:49:54 pm
Post by: Sheb on November 22, 2009, 10:44:21 pm
Oh, and add me!!!
Post by: pluckcitizen on November 23, 2009, 01:42:25 pm
Post by: KillerClowns on November 23, 2009, 01:46:02 pm
So I've been digging and losing deeper for a while now. Anyone have any tips or defense strategies when you have <100 dwarves? So far I've been using the old retractable bridge + big pit + marksdwarves to take them out safely.Orcish archers are, in my experience, freakishly competent, and pose a genuine threat to your marksdwarves. I'm a big fan of drowning chambers, myself; Orcs ignore trap, so you'll have to do it manually, and be ready to have marksdwarves stationed to deal with those too who manage to slip out.
Post by: pluckcitizen on November 23, 2009, 01:48:51 pm
Post by: Nabobalis on November 23, 2009, 01:54:05 pm
Post by: BiosElement on November 23, 2009, 10:53:54 pm
Post by: dbfuru on November 23, 2009, 11:35:47 pm
I had my first Orc Siege at 17 dwarves, and they decimated my small military, pretty much instantly. So I retracted my bridge and waited it out. But booze stocks ran low, so I had to make a decision I've never had to make in DF. BUILD A WELL DURING A SIEGE.
Not that epic, but was fun, digging out the channel and then risking my miner to run up topside and mine out the last channel..
Now the siege has broken, so I'm going to make some armour and train a military force.. No idea what to do against these things.. Thinking make an archer tower.
Post by: tehstefan on November 24, 2009, 12:24:01 am
Which just goes to show, this mod is amazing. Can't wait till I finally find that magma, and can start smithing.
Post by: dbfuru on November 24, 2009, 03:35:21 am
My first game of dig deeper, I have managed to make a drowning chamber, but have run into the problem, they don't all drown, and that it takes forever to drain. I'm now working on the logistics to drain it quickly, which is rather new.
Which just goes to show, this mod is amazing. Can't wait till I finally find that magma, and can start smithing.
What does your drowning chamber consist of? How do you make the Orcs (I presume) fall into it?
Edit: And my first fort lost.. Wow.. Orcs were filling my winding corridors before my drawbridge, and so I prepared a channel to drown the orcs with. I thought I'd have plenty of time to head topside through a new tunnel and channel two tiles out, causing the corridor to flood. But I didn't see ANOTHER unit of orcs next to my freshly dug staircase. So poor Urist broke through the earth and met a volley of Orc arrows. The orcs then streamed through the new entrance and slaughtered EVERY SINGLE dwarf. It was.. not very epic to be honest.
Post by: Sarge on November 24, 2009, 04:37:26 am
I stumbled onto this mod discussion by chance and it sounds awesome and I'd love to give it a try. My base installation was the 40d release of 6 Sept '09, I installed the tileset application DFG21 on top of that and also found Dwarf Therapist (fecking awesome!) and run that to manage my dwarfs (credit, mention etc etc where due and required)
I was just getting bored when I saw this mod... but alas, I'm having hassles with the download link (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=980). It gives me a "Error 502 Bad Gateway" message.
I'm getting old ;) and the older I get the more I get tech-challenged I become (ya laugh, your turn will come), so I have no idea what that means or what to do.
If anyone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction to download this mod and also, before I have to ask later, point me to the installation guide for it - I will be most appreciative.
Post by: Great Cthulhu on November 24, 2009, 04:56:46 am
Post by: Siquo on November 24, 2009, 05:03:23 am
Only I forgot to make a drainage system to be able to retrieve the iron from their weapons and armor, and I'm low on iron as it is... :(
Post by: Xzalander on November 24, 2009, 05:30:01 am
At first I thought it was me but im here posting xD
Post by: dbfuru on November 24, 2009, 05:55:52 am
The aim is to get the orcs in the corridor, pull the two levers which put the corridor in lock-down, and then release the water. Once the Orcs have drowned, the drain lever is pulled, draining the water off the mountainside.
I have yet to test it but have high hopes for it.
Post by: stolensteel on November 24, 2009, 12:05:49 pm
Post by: 3 on November 24, 2009, 12:15:34 pm
Post by: Keita on November 24, 2009, 12:24:21 pm
Two WHOLE pages were legendary of one type or another.
Post by: Dohon on November 24, 2009, 01:54:41 pm
Erm... is it normal on the first winter to have 10 PAGES OF ORCS ATTACK!?!??!!?1!?!!?one??!!?!?
Two WHOLE pages were legendary of one type or another.
This. Is. Dig. DEEPER! YOU DIG, OR, YOU DIE!
(Digging through Orc skulls is MANDATORY!)
Post by: Nabobalis on November 24, 2009, 02:44:20 pm
Erm... is it normal on the first winter to have 10 PAGES OF ORCS ATTACK!?!??!!?1!?!!?one??!!?!?
Two WHOLE pages were legendary of one type or another.
This. Is. Dig. DEEPER! YOU DIG, OR, YOU DIE!
(Digging through Orc skulls is MANDATORY!)
Or hiding behind a bridge, or in a cold cold mountain.
Post by: Keita on November 24, 2009, 03:53:31 pm
Well the orks had some nice bleeding pin coushions to take home.
Actualy I'm wondering... I think i might try an ork
Post by: The13thRonin on November 24, 2009, 07:57:26 pm
1. I'm balancing out the CIVS update so that when I release it in 8 out of 10 worlds you'll be able to see each CIV at work instead of them wiping each other out.
2. I'm updating the main page, I want to create a more flash main page, including a detailed tale of how the DIG DEEPER world came to be explaining the creation of the world and the role of the angels and the reapers.
3. I've created a wiki but it is blank, I need help filling it out, I think you need to sign up for a free membership to edit. If someone can suggest a better site to create a wiki please do. The wiki can be found here: http://dwarffortressdigdeeper.wikispaces.com/
4. I'm still trying to get some artists for the main page. Some of you guys are fantastic artists and Dig Deeper needs your help! We want pictures of anything and everything that makes Dig Deeper special so that the main page won't just be filled with text!
5. Waiting Toady One's update to Dwarf Fortress which shouldn't be long now and will then allow me to start building custom workshops for you guys! It might take awhile to fix compatibility between the new update and the old version so try to be patient with me! Thanks guys.
6. Suggestions, suggestions, suggestions, never be afraid to suggest new creatures, plants, metals, changes, etc that you want to see in Dig Deeper. I'm fairly open to community suggestions (hey this is everyone's mod here, not just mine) and I love to hear some suggestions. Right now I'm considering what the next arc will be... More plants perhaps? I'm running out of ideas for metals.
7. Achievements are coming to the original post :).
Keep enjoying Dig Deeper! If I miss your post and don't respond to it, sorry, be sure to send me a personal message, I always respond to my personal messages :).
Post by: Karik on November 24, 2009, 11:34:35 pm
Post by: Nabobalis on November 25, 2009, 09:13:35 am
Post by: Karik on November 25, 2009, 11:21:52 am
*I just got sieged twice in a row (winter then spring) at the end of my first year and start of my second. The first siege had my pop+1, second siege had almost double (only lost 1 dwarf+wounded on the first siege, none on the second).
*I have learned that when you have dabbler marksmen (draftees), it takes 1 orc to kill 2 orcs. And by this I mean, the amount of bolt throwing action from my marksmen usually takes 1 orcs worth of bones to kill 2...plus some wooden ones besides.
*I watched an orc's inventory add 8-10 bolts in it (a few in the eye and spleen and god knows what else) before the little bastard had the decensy to die. One or lost both of his eyes and still stumbled about for a bit. It would have been a wrestlers dream if I was dumb enough to send them out.
So ya...I lurve it sooo much, though I am pretty screwed, and I am hoping my puppy mill picks up because if I am sending out a dwarf to die in melee again, I want a pack of dogs out there helping him.
Post by: Razzums on November 25, 2009, 01:19:22 pm
Post by: Grendus on November 25, 2009, 04:23:26 pm
Is it normal to go my first year with no orcs?
Not unheard of. I've gone for a year and a half, then got a four squad siege (which, sadly, ended with all their local leaders dead, so after that it was just butchering goblin ambushes).
As for suggestions, I have a few.
1. Darkmetal is too easy to get if you embark in an obsidian biome. I think you intended for it to be rarer, but it's a metal that right out of the smelter is harder than steel and in obsidian layers it's about as common as hematite in a sedimentary stone. I tried to write a mod where darkmetal was as hard as iron but makes darksteel by substituting it for iron in the steel reaction, but other changes I made broke it. Either way, Darkmetal is kind of imbalanced.
2. Bloodmetal could use some reactions too. I'd suggest either blood bronze, where it can be substituted for cassiterite, or crimson silver which just stretches your silver supply.
3. Cave Beehives have the same problem as Sweet Pods - too damn valuable. One Dwarven Honey is as valuable as an electrum bar. Dwarven Honey is in infinite supply, electrum is not. Anyone else see a problem with this? Guess I'm just weird, it bothers me.
Other than that I love it. It'd be kind of cool to see an easier version for newbies that sees the goblins siege from the start and the orcs ambushing and sieging later, but that's what broke my attempt at modding.
Post by: Razzums on November 25, 2009, 05:22:48 pm
Post by: Jace_the_slasher on November 25, 2009, 09:35:35 pm
Armok have mercy, the orcs are across the bridge. Hurry, get the civilians into the underground quarry. Tell that miner chap to grab his pick, skulls need splitting. We make our stand here. We breathe our last breath here.
Moonstone 17:
The Axedorf and miner held them for mere minutes. I can hear them chomping on our sheep in the pens above. I know it's only time till they descend into these caverns and destroy us all. We're not fighters, we stand no chance. Armok have mercy....."
My god I love this mod. Well done Ronin, well done.
Post by: Count Dorku on November 25, 2009, 09:49:11 pm
yer i know but 10 pages! that like 50 orks against 7!
10 pages?! By my calculations, that's like two hundred and ten orcs on the warpath.
Was your entire site made of funnonite or something?
Post by: The13thRonin on November 26, 2009, 02:19:49 am
Is it normal to go my first year with no orcs?
Not unheard of. I've gone for a year and a half, then got a four squad siege (which, sadly, ended with all their local leaders dead, so after that it was just butchering goblin ambushes).
As for suggestions, I have a few.
1. Darkmetal is too easy to get if you embark in an obsidian biome. I think you intended for it to be rarer, but it's a metal that right out of the smelter is harder than steel and in obsidian layers it's about as common as hematite in a sedimentary stone. I tried to write a mod where darkmetal was as hard as iron but makes darksteel by substituting it for iron in the steel reaction, but other changes I made broke it. Either way, Darkmetal is kind of imbalanced.
2. Bloodmetal could use some reactions too. I'd suggest either blood bronze, where it can be substituted for cassiterite, or crimson silver which just stretches your silver supply.
3. Cave Beehives have the same problem as Sweet Pods - too damn valuable. One Dwarven Honey is as valuable as an electrum bar. Dwarven Honey is in infinite supply, electrum is not. Anyone else see a problem with this? Guess I'm just weird, it bothers me.
Other than that I love it. It'd be kind of cool to see an easier version for newbies that sees the goblins siege from the start and the orcs ambushing and sieging later, but that's what broke my attempt at modding.
All very good suggestions. Will make the appropriate fixes.
PS - is it really true that when the local leaders die orcs stop coming? If true I'll have to fix that... :(
PPS - Busy with work for the next three-four days (sorry guys, I know I've been slack and Hearts of Iron 3 + Tropico 3 + Counter Strike Source + Simutrans have been distracting me!) but I'll try to get motivated to do some work on Dig Deeper after then. I really don't want the civ update to break the balance of the mod. It will be far from perfect but it'll be the first step on a long road to making the civs distinct from each other. I decided for the next arc I might start doing an overhaul on the value system and adding more metals... I love metals :).
"Moonstone 16:
Armok have mercy, the orcs are across the bridge. Hurry, get the civilians into the underground quarry. Tell that miner chap to grab his pick, skulls need splitting. We make our stand here. We breathe our last breath here.
Moonstone 17:
The Axedorf and miner held them for mere minutes. I can hear them comping on our sheep in the pens above. I know it's only time till they descend into these caverns and destroy us all. We're not fighters, we stand no chance. Armok have mercy....."
My god I love this mod. Well done Ronin, well done.
It makes me happy to hear things like this, thanks :).
PPPS - The new version with the new civs should provide a much more accessible game for all... If you're looking for about the same challenge as vanilla DF you build away from orcs and near snotlings (like a species of orc/goblin runts, a cross between an old goblin and a kobold... Goblins have been made tougher to rival dwarves in the mountains. If you want a much harder challange you build near the dark elves and the orcs... The dark elves are going to be nasty... Not as tough and strong as the orcs but nasty in different, new and exciting ways...
NEW UPDATE: I managed to get a chance to put in some decent work today. I fixed the outstanding great helmet bug, where dwarves couldn't equip it. I also fixed blackmetal to be much, much less common. I created a new metal called crimson silver which is a combination of silver and bloodmetal and I continued work on the civilizations polishing off the ORCS and DWARVES for this update as well as striking a nice balance between each civ. Just have to do some tweaking to GOBLINS, HUMANS... Etc now.
Post by: Karik on November 27, 2009, 01:13:32 pm
Post by: darkflagrance on November 27, 2009, 04:07:23 pm
So for example it won't list humans or elves until they come to trade, or orcs until they first lay siege...
If you have a different problem please clarify...
Post by: Karik on November 27, 2009, 04:12:13 pm
Post by: Zekrish on November 29, 2009, 11:14:17 am
Post by: Grendus on November 29, 2009, 12:13:16 pm
I don't think you can keep them from stopping the invasion when their leaders die, but I did notice the goblins are much less likely to send their leaders than the orcs, same as the very rare sieges I got in Relentless Assault. Possibly it's related to their ethics, Toady may have weighted certain ethics or civ groups to be more aggressive. It's just a guess though.
Post by: Zekrish on November 29, 2009, 12:35:44 pm
Post by: stolensteel on November 29, 2009, 12:47:32 pm
Post by: Zekrish on November 29, 2009, 12:51:37 pm
Post by: stolensteel on November 29, 2009, 12:55:41 pm
Post by: Zekrish on November 29, 2009, 01:12:29 pm
Post by: Grendus on November 29, 2009, 01:31:20 pm
Post by: stolensteel on November 29, 2009, 01:45:08 pm
Post by: Karik on November 29, 2009, 01:46:18 pm
Post by: Zekrish on November 29, 2009, 05:19:50 pm
Oh yeah, forgot about those utilities! You can use Tweak (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Tweak) to enable those buildings if you need it. Not sure why it didn't allow them already, but this is at least a fix for your problems.
That worked! Thank you!
Post by: Zugwarrior on November 30, 2009, 08:37:21 am
News from my Dwarves.
First Fort: Gargoyle chased my trader around the map till he was cornered. My trader then turned and promptly ripped off both of its wings. Then it ripped of his head. :-[ Then came the Orks...
Buggish second fort: Tapped into a magma pipe and the magma quickly overwhelmed my miner. Just as i was preparing to write him off i saw that he was swimming though the magma. Dont know why this happened, but he was in there long enough to get hungry, drowsy and dehydrated before i could rescue him. (I had to keep changing the magma levels until it pushed him to the ramp...
If it helps i was running Mayday's pack, DD, reveal, Dwarf Therapist and I tweaked Adamantine. Any idea what caused the magma immunity?
But other than that silliness this mod is awesome!
Post by: Lando242 on December 02, 2009, 03:30:15 am
Just as i was preparing to write him off i saw that he was swimming though the magma. Dont know why this happened
Did you turn temperature off in the init? That might have done it.
Post by: Zekrish on December 02, 2009, 07:17:47 pm
Post by: darkflagrance on December 02, 2009, 09:50:46 pm
If creatures have names, they are at peace with you unless a war is triggered in worldgen. If they do not have names, they are always at war.
Post by: Org on December 02, 2009, 10:03:30 pm
I have a suggestion for a creature though. Maybe a Manticore? Manticore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manticore) Or a Gorgon(I cant remember if these are in already)?
I like them. : )
Post by: Karik on December 03, 2009, 10:31:47 am
Dear God these orcs are hardcore! A Pikemaster was hit by a ballista arrow and got his eyes, right foot, left leg and right arm and then wobbled of the map and return 2 years later :P The only thing i can think of to complain of is that many orcs dosn't have names... will it be added in the future?
I got sieged at one of my forts (have yet to lose a fort with dig deeper, or any DFness, I usually get a new idea and restart >.<) but my archers were raining down hell and I watched as the orc swarm filled with training arrows. One orc had about 10 training arrows in uncomfortable places, another had lost his eyes, pierced a lung, bad leg and arms, and they all were just shrugging it off. Finally I thought I had done well enough and opened the gate and my long melee fighter with his dogs just charged them (got rofl stomped), the dogs got smashed, and the orcs charged in with me weeping "Oh ARMOK help those foolish dwarves fire faster.
Was epic to watch the wounded horde of orcs sprint toward the gate, taking more and more fire as one fell, then two, then four, then they reached my gate and the stair that led to the wall, and finally, just as the last remaining orc reared up to the top of the stairs and took his hammer, smashing in the leg of one of my defenders, ready to land the killing blow, dozens of more bolts slam into him and he topples at the top of the stairs, only one dwarf losing his life. Epic...just epic...
Post by: Grendus on December 03, 2009, 05:22:53 pm
Maybe I'm getting better, or maybe the orcs are just getting worse. On a darker note, I just realized one of those champions is my farmer! I accidentally drafted him instead of a soap maker, which explains why my food stocks were running low.
Edit: On an unrelated note, add me to the list of players digging deeper. After trying a few other mods, this is my favorite. Looking forward to the new civs as well.
Post by: TSB on December 04, 2009, 03:52:17 pm
Please add me to the list, and I will start putting some information on the wiki for you, probably just the OP at first, maybe adding the new fauna/flora, and possibly some of the stones.
Post by: Grendus on December 04, 2009, 10:48:12 pm
Given the choice between facing an orc elite sniper and a pair of GCSQ's, I'd take on the spiders. God, that was awful. AWFUL!
I'm a little scared, as some of my champions are now unhappy. If they start tantruming, this will get UGLY!
Post by: darkflagrance on December 05, 2009, 07:13:41 am
I take back what I said about the orcs being soft. I ran into an orc elite sniper. He FINALLY died, after killing 7 or 8 of my elite soldiers, when my legendary marksdwarf pumped about 12 cobalt bolts into him. Good god, that was aweful. Aside from the sniper killing, the other orcs were picking off the dwarves he wounded. That was the first true battle, time to reorganize and replace my hammerdwarves.
Given the choice between facing an orc elite sniper and a pair of GCSQ's, I'd take on the spiders. God, that was awful. AWFUL!
I'm a little scared, as some of my champions are now unhappy. If they start tantruming, this will get UGLY!
Geez, I once ran into an Orc Elite Sniper. She was the local leader of her civ and apparently had an unusual fashion sense, because she arrived covered in three pages of human and dwarf leather earrings.
I had drafted two migrants from the first wave as champions to be. Unfortunately they were married, and to prevent the ten children they had between them from dying, I made them marksdwarves. When I heard of the siege, I had them stationed in the fortifications above the main entrance (with their children, who followed their mothers everywhere), and had my other champions wait behind the raised drawbridge.
The Elite Sniper proceeded to massacre all 12 dwarves standing on the battlements. There was gore all over the place. Both of the bereaved husbands promptly went insane.
Post by: abculatter_2 on December 05, 2009, 09:31:23 pm
Post by: Grendus on December 07, 2009, 01:44:15 am
I take back what I said about the orcs being soft. I ran into an orc elite sniper. He FINALLY died, after killing 7 or 8 of my elite soldiers, when my legendary marksdwarf pumped about 12 cobalt bolts into him. Good god, that was aweful. Aside from the sniper killing, the other orcs were picking off the dwarves he wounded. That was the first true battle, time to reorganize and replace my hammerdwarves.
Given the choice between facing an orc elite sniper and a pair of GCSQ's, I'd take on the spiders. God, that was awful. AWFUL!
I'm a little scared, as some of my champions are now unhappy. If they start tantruming, this will get UGLY!
Geez, I once ran into an Orc Elite Sniper. She was the local leader of her civ and apparently had an unusual fashion sense, because she arrived covered in three pages of human and dwarf leather earrings.
I had drafted two migrants from the first wave as champions to be. Unfortunately they were married, and to prevent the ten children they had between them from dying, I made them marksdwarves. When I heard of the siege, I had them stationed in the fortifications above the main entrance (with their children, who followed their mothers everywhere), and had my other champions wait behind the raised drawbridge.
The Elite Sniper proceeded to massacre all 12 dwarves standing on the battlements. There was gore all over the place. Both of the bereaved husbands promptly went insane.
Yea. I had about 25 champions fighting the orcs that battle. Most of the deaths were fortress guard who ran out to help, when I decided to fill the guard from the next migrant wave I realized there were only two left. Probably should have assigned them armor... oops.
The irony is, next siege a single champion engaged a squad of orc lashers and walked out with a light gray wound to his lower left arm. One dwarf vs 15 orcs. That's how freakin ridiculous that sniper was. The dwarf didn't train between sieges, I keep my hammerdwarves on permanent duty so I don't have to hassle with lots of training weapons and switching. My military has gotten even stronger though since two of my trainee hamerdwarf squads reached legendary, which is kind of ironic considering the orc local leaders are all dead which should herald a lull in sieges. The last champion (elite spear orc. Tried to engage 5 dwarf hammerlords at once. Took 8 haul jobs to get him inside) finally sieged, all they have left are high priests and guards. All they do now is patrol the edges of the clear cut area for goblin ambushes, which are rare. Must have embarked too far away from goblin towers. Oh well.
BTW Ronin, I was thinking. I've never seen an orc fortress that had a king, all they have are local leaders. That might be the problem, local leaders are more likely to siege than kings are so the orcs send all their leadership too early. Not sure what causes the orcs to lack a king though.
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on December 07, 2009, 04:05:14 am
EDIT: Nevermind, it works now.
Post by: darkflagrance on December 07, 2009, 04:13:35 am
It's their site leader tags. Either give them [leader type:king] or make their religion [any_appropriate_power] - but the latter might backfire if the resulting demon ruler doesn't die during world gen.
Post by: Dwaref on December 07, 2009, 11:22:10 pm
If anyone can report the same bug on/off DD, it'd be awesome.
Comment in the below thread though, i won't be returning here.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=45935.0
Post by: Leonidas on December 08, 2009, 10:21:43 pm
Post by: The Doctor on December 08, 2009, 11:55:44 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on December 09, 2009, 12:25:29 am
I killed a dragon, and now I discover that there's no way to turn a raw scale into a useful scale. Is that the sort of thing I can add without a world regen?
What? I made a reaction for that? Are you telling me that it doesn't work?
Post by: Leonidas on December 09, 2009, 02:03:07 am
I'm looking at reaction_standard_extended.txt, and not seeing it. And nothing at the smelter menus or forges. And I'm running your version 1.3, which seems to be the most current. Where is the reaction supposed to be?I killed a dragon, and now I discover that there's no way to turn a raw scale into a useful scale. Is that the sort of thing I can add without a world regen?What? I made a reaction for that? Are you telling me that it doesn't work?
Post by: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on December 09, 2009, 01:57:04 pm
Died within seconds.
This is FUN.
Post by: vooood on December 10, 2009, 07:24:36 am
Post by: Grendus on December 10, 2009, 12:06:45 pm
So uh, does this work with Civ Forge?
You'll have to give it a shot. You'll know if there's a redundant entry, if the game offers to let you embark with a war monarch butterfly it's your first hint.
Post by: Cyrix on December 15, 2009, 11:04:27 pm
Orcs come way too soon. I never even had goblins show up to siege me, went right to Orcs.
It's a pain in the ass to try and build up as orcs are immune to friggen traps.
I wish there was a bit more information on what exactly is in this mod with the different types of metal and whatnot.
From playing the game for a while I'm at the point where I should be getting like 4-6 goblin squads per siege and I'm getting like 8 squads of orcs that can only be stopped by military or siege weapons which i don't have much of. Anyway I guess I'm going to have to start a new fort because I'm being overrun.
Anyway what tag do I need to change so they can be effected by traps?
Post by: Cyrix on December 15, 2009, 11:06:32 pm
Post by: snaggles on December 15, 2009, 11:08:54 pm
You mod is good and all but I have a few suggestions.
Orcs come way too soon. I never even had goblins show up to siege me, went right to Orcs.
It's a pain in the ass to try and build up as orcs are immune to friggen traps.
I wish there was a bit more information on what exactly is in this mod with the different types of metal and whatnot.
From playing the game for a while I'm at the point where I should be getting like 4-6 goblin squads per siege and I'm getting like 8 squads of orcs that can only be stopped by military or siege weapons which i don't have much of. Anyway I guess I'm going to have to start a new fort because I'm being overrun.
Anyway what tag do I need to change so they can be effected by traps?
The mod isn't supposed to be easy.
To make them vulnerable to traps, take out [trAPAVOID].
Doing that doesn't require a regen of your world.
Post by: Zombiewaffle on December 16, 2009, 04:58:29 pm
What kind of Orcs don't have pigs D:
Post by: Thrin on December 18, 2009, 02:54:24 am
Still puzzled, I let it continue to try with these settings. After more rejections, I let it build a world that's Legends only. It's filled with orc towers, caves, and nothing else. I assume orcs are so awesome, they killed all the other races before worldgen could stop. I don't save the world for legend viewing, and mess with the orcs for a bit. After repeatedly failed worldgens, even using 'create a world now', I eventually save a Legend only world and start browsing through it. Finally, I found the problem.
Orcs were the only Civ being spawned. No dwarves, elves, humans, goblins or even kolbolds. I took another look at the raws.
The 'creature_standard' raw was a blank file. I think when the zipfile conked on me, it stopped before filling out creature_standard, and when I re-unzipped, I must have deleted the full one instead of the empty one, and hadn't caught it. So it knew there was a dwarven civilization, it just didn't know what a dwarf was.
Anyway, I hope it was just the zip program I used that weirded out, and not the file itself. I believe I downloaded it from the DFFD, but I honestly don't remember.
Now, to go have some orcish FUN! ;)
Post by: ed boy on December 18, 2009, 12:11:59 pm
Post by: Grendus on December 18, 2009, 11:28:59 pm
You mod is good and all but I have a few suggestions.
Orcs come way too soon. I never even had goblins show up to siege me, went right to Orcs.
It's a pain in the ass to try and build up as orcs are immune to friggen traps.
I wish there was a bit more information on what exactly is in this mod with the different types of metal and whatnot.
From playing the game for a while I'm at the point where I should be getting like 4-6 goblin squads per siege and I'm getting like 8 squads of orcs that can only be stopped by military or siege weapons which i don't have much of. Anyway I guess I'm going to have to start a new fort because I'm being overrun.
Anyway what tag do I need to change so they can be effected by traps?
That's the point. Orcs come fast and hit hard. Goblins will show up later, and will mostly serve as export goods (if you can survive the orcs, goblins are lackluster).
Anxiously awaiting the next version of Dig Deeper.
Post by: 612DwarfAvenue on December 19, 2009, 12:49:52 am
Post by: Riversand on December 19, 2009, 05:14:18 am
MY own two mods are a race, and glass-metals.
The Race is a desert-dwelling one, called Kutari. essentially, Sand-cats.
I used to play dig deeper before, then lost files, and decided to mod afterwords.
If you are interested, i would gladly submit my own mods to you, Ronin, if you are interested in incorporating them to your mega-mod.
My 'finished' product will be posted in it's own thread, when i have it done.
Post by: opsneakie on December 21, 2009, 09:48:37 pm
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on December 22, 2009, 03:55:08 am
Other then that it looks like a great mod.
Post by: Lester on December 23, 2009, 12:46:35 am
Is this a known bug?
Post by: Kirk on December 24, 2009, 10:39:43 am
It's been 2 years. Did I just kill that Orc Civ? Or they just waiting to really kick my ass?
Post by: Keita on December 24, 2009, 10:46:43 am
I realised that someone hadn't bothered to raise the blasted drawbridge.
Post by: Lobos on January 02, 2010, 06:17:20 pm
Post by: Sphalerite on January 02, 2010, 10:18:07 pm
Unu Tunnelplay the Tentacle of Nudes is the ruler of one of the local goblin civilizations. She showed up as "Friendly" on my fortress, flew over the fortress wall, ignored my dwarves and started smashing furniture. None of my dwarves or war dogs had any interesting in attacking her.
I used Dwarf Companion to turn her into a member of my civilization, and modded the raws to remove buildingdestroyer from Ancient Vampires.
Now she's chilling out in the meeting hall. Can't assign rooms for her, but that's a known issue in DF with having non-dwarf civilization members. One strange issue I have noticed is that she will every now and then fall asleep and never wake up (for months at least). I don't know what's causing that yet. When it happens I have to use Dwarf Companion to reset her tiredness to zero to get her to wake up.
Post by: carriontrooper on January 02, 2010, 11:50:35 pm
Post by: Afthartos on January 03, 2010, 12:10:01 am
Wish this will work with the next version, but i'm doubtful
Post by: Ravenplucker on January 03, 2010, 06:37:51 am
Post by: Afthartos on January 03, 2010, 09:06:01 pm
Or atleast a summary of what metals can be used for sparring and so on
Post by: Nabobalis on January 05, 2010, 05:59:02 am
Post by: alphawolf29 on January 05, 2010, 10:13:35 am
Seriously. someone should make a wiki page for this mod.
Or atleast a summary of what metals can be used for sparring and so on
yea, I'd like to know what the values for armor/weapons are of the new metals..
Post by: Grimshot on January 05, 2010, 11:46:22 am
Seriously. someone should make a wiki page for this mod.
Or atleast a summary of what metals can be used for sparring and so on
yea, I'd like to know what the values for armor/weapons are of the new metals..
I would be interested in this also
Post by: Grendus on January 05, 2010, 09:55:30 pm
Post by: alphawolf29 on January 06, 2010, 02:41:27 am
Post by: Vieto on January 06, 2010, 06:41:26 am
How Do i get Eggs? Im playing a hermit and am literally up to my neck in chickens (which he has a preference for) and a few Llamas. (Its a real animal cave in here. heh.)
The same way you get milk from cows.
Post by: Deon on January 06, 2010, 08:18:01 am
Post by: loldorf on January 06, 2010, 02:39:57 pm
how come?
Post by: 3 on January 06, 2010, 02:44:45 pm
Post by: Grendus on January 06, 2010, 02:48:42 pm
my fort of 7 dorfs just got sieged(!?!?!) by 12 orcs lol XD
how come?
Orcs have no siege triggers set, therefore they start sieging immediately. That's what makes them funtm.
Post by: Deadbeard on January 06, 2010, 09:57:24 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kobot on January 07, 2010, 02:28:00 pm
set [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]
it wont actually affect the amount of volcanoes or magma in your world, it will just affect rejections
you can set all of your ranges to zero, if you want, unless you are experimenting with how to tweak the other settings to get the balance of features you want
Post by: loldorf on January 07, 2010, 07:45:17 pm
Because that happens in Dig Deeper.
Damn... thats like, cooler than cool ^^
Post by: Afthartos on January 08, 2010, 04:11:47 am
Post by: loldorf on January 08, 2010, 08:47:41 am
note me up as a player who digs balls deep
Post by: Raneman on January 08, 2010, 02:03:18 pm
Post by: Morrigi on January 08, 2010, 10:51:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Horseplank on January 11, 2010, 11:11:26 am
Post by: Dwarf on January 11, 2010, 11:33:39 am
I've got a vanilla DF and a Dig Deeper DF now alongside eachother. I'll try it out later tonight, but I have a question- in what way does this affect adventurer mode? I assume just a LOT more content?
Yup. Alot more weapons, megabeasts, etc.
Post by: Vester on January 12, 2010, 06:21:12 am
Post by: darkflagrance on January 12, 2010, 08:20:24 am
Also, the kobolds will all be wielding chrome bows with chrome arrows, probably a side effect of [MINOR_METAL] due to Copper no longer being the minor-est metal. (That was something I had to fix, because it seemed weird).
I can indeed confirm this phenomenon from the one time I played Dig Deeper in Sparkgear 6 or so.
Post by: orcishwarrior on January 14, 2010, 03:38:24 pm
Post by: xdarkcodex on January 15, 2010, 07:24:18 pm
Post by: SugaSuga on January 15, 2010, 09:17:24 pm
Post by: Nobbins on January 16, 2010, 09:35:00 pm
Well, I'm digging deeper, at least. =/
Post by: Cariyaga on January 17, 2010, 12:30:44 am
Post by: xdarkcodex on January 17, 2010, 12:34:08 am
Thanks to your shitty installation instructions, I have to redownload DF to get the game too work. >_>Don't you just copy and paste?
Well, I'm digging deeper, at least. =/
Post by: Sysice on January 17, 2010, 04:20:00 am
I accidentally deleted the raws, and the download isn't compatible with macs anymore. Is there any way I can get them back? :(
Post by: xdarkcodex on January 17, 2010, 05:45:06 am
Carp.Does a mac have a recycling bin?
I accidentally deleted the raws, and the download isn't compatible with macs anymore. Is there any way I can get them back? :(
Post by: Eagle0600 on January 17, 2010, 06:43:43 am
Post by: xdarkcodex on January 17, 2010, 06:21:11 pm
Clicky-clicky! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mac+free+file+recovery)Lol that's so cool.
Post by: Sysice on January 17, 2010, 08:23:31 pm
Post by: Eagle0600 on January 17, 2010, 09:08:22 pm
You're welcome.
Post by: Nobbins on January 18, 2010, 12:56:00 pm
Post by: Horseplank on January 18, 2010, 02:00:00 pm
I dig deeper.
Post by: Bauglir on January 19, 2010, 12:30:44 am
Post by: The13thRonin on January 19, 2010, 12:35:24 am
Added the new civilizations in, they should all appear in 9/10 worlds.
Still not as perfect as I want them but hey... They're in good working order for a first release.
Now I can go back to making materials before the new release of Dwarf Fortress.
PS - to the person/s complaining about the install, it isn't my fault you can't read. The instructions are CLEAR step-by-step in the README. If it were any simpler it would be a chalk diagram.
To everyone else, thank you for your continued support! Work has not and will not cease on this mod. We will go forward and expand into the new release! Happy tidings to all :)!
PPS - I still need a volunteer/s to start a wiki please... I will happily contribute to a wiki but I am unable to start one right now with the amount of projects I have on my plate. Please someone help me out, DIG DEEPER has taken a lot of work and I only ask this so that it can be better for the community, any help is appreciated. Artists are also wanted for sigs, banners, etc... I've seen what you guys can do! I need to start sprucing up the thread, or even make an entirely new one so I think some art might be a good idea.
Other things are in the works!
Post by: Lobos on January 19, 2010, 02:15:01 am
Post by: khantin on January 19, 2010, 02:23:43 am
Post by: The13thRonin on January 19, 2010, 02:37:35 am
gah I want to get 1.4 but i just finished making 1.3 work with ranting rodents tilesets and theme in general ><
Apart from the civilizations and a few fixes not much is new. Maybe hang with 1.3 for awhile, that release was pretty stable!
Post by: khantin on January 19, 2010, 02:55:58 am
Post by: Carpman on January 19, 2010, 04:22:36 pm
Change [NAME:horned helmets:horned helmets] to [NAME:horned helmet:horned helmets].
Add my name to the list please, I love this mod ;D
Post by: xdarkcodex on January 19, 2010, 09:57:45 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on January 19, 2010, 11:49:21 pm
Is it normal for the goblin caravan to come every early/mid/late of a season and to be seige by orcs at the start of every season?
Goblin caravan? You shouldn't be getting any of those... ???
Post by: xdarkcodex on January 20, 2010, 12:54:14 am
Post by: The13thRonin on January 20, 2010, 01:02:47 am
Yer I'm friendly with them...and there traders wont stop coming!Worst than a siege lol.3rd year and the orcs are attacking by the hundreds :'( Barely holding up my fort.
How did you get friendly with them? That should not be happening, did you play around with the files or have I mucked up the civs somehow?
Post by: xdarkcodex on January 20, 2010, 01:12:50 am
Dunno.I have quite a few mods I don't know whats what.Yer I'm friendly with them...and there traders wont stop coming!Worst than a siege lol.3rd year and the orcs are attacking by the hundreds :'( Barely holding up my fort.
How did you get friendly with them? That should not be happening, did you play around with the files or have I mucked up the civs somehow?
Edit: Oh I see what I did.I got rid of the [BABYSNATCHER] token.
Post by: The13thRonin on January 20, 2010, 01:34:05 am
PS - If more people could add this to their signature it'd really help:
Code: [Select]
[CENTER][color=teal][url=http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35736.0][b]I'm Digging Deeper, You Should Too![/b][/color][/CENTER]
Post by: Hummingbird on January 20, 2010, 02:53:21 am
Like this:
/wiki/DigDeeper/Dig_Deeper_Weapons
/wiki/DigDeeper/Dig_Deeper_Minerals
etc. Having the pages on some other site isn't going to help accessibility, imo.
Post by: The13thRonin on January 20, 2010, 06:42:28 am
I think the Dig Deeper wiki pages should be subpages of the page about Dig Deeper in our DF wiki.
Like this:
/wiki/DigDeeper/Dig_Deeper_Weapons
/wiki/DigDeeper/Dig_Deeper_Minerals
etc. Having the pages on some other site isn't going to help accessibility, imo.
Maybe you're right... Will someone have a go at actually starting the pages then?
Post by: Carpman on January 21, 2010, 09:23:06 pm
Found a typo!This seemed to have been missed the last time I posted it.
Change [NAME:horned helmets:horned helmets] to [NAME:horned helmet:horned helmets].
Add my name to the list please, I love this mod ;D
Post by: The13thRonin on January 22, 2010, 07:48:13 am
Found a typo!This seemed to have been missed the last time I posted it.
Change [NAME:horned helmets:horned helmets] to [NAME:horned helmet:horned helmets].
Add my name to the list please, I love this mod ;D
Thank you, noted and fixed for next version.
Post by: tompaw on January 22, 2010, 12:21:16 pm
Post by: The_Kakaze on January 22, 2010, 05:37:06 pm
*edit* also, I get traders, but no dwarves... halflings come in the fall. Everything else seems to be working fine.
Post by: The Doctor on January 22, 2010, 06:06:01 pm
If so, regen.
Post by: The_Kakaze on January 22, 2010, 06:07:37 pm
Post by: The Doctor on January 22, 2010, 06:29:38 pm
Then again, it might just be trade.
Post by: The_Kakaze on January 22, 2010, 07:17:08 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on January 23, 2010, 09:07:22 am
Well, none of those things apply... there's a dwarf city not 4 tiles away, inhabited and everything. I really don't know whats going on... looks like I'm not the only one having this problem though.
Wow... That does seem to be a problem... I'll look into it... ???
Post by: Krelos on January 23, 2010, 09:17:54 am
Post by: tompaw on January 23, 2010, 09:39:11 am
Post by: Lobos on January 23, 2010, 04:05:42 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 23, 2010, 04:10:44 pm
Post by: Greendogo on January 23, 2010, 04:41:10 pm
I found that when I use only the speech files from DD here, my game generates an orc civ no matter what. I mean, even if I have no orc creature or civ entry or any mention of them whatsoever in my raws. And if I do, it gens 2 different orc civs, so they are on the embark civ list twice. :oThis happened to me too.
Post by: Lobos on January 23, 2010, 04:48:43 pm
I found that when I use only the speech files from DD here, my game generates an orc civ no matter what. I mean, even if I have no orc creature or civ entry or any mention of them whatsoever in my raws. And if I do, it gens 2 different orc civs, so they are on the embark civ list twice. :oThis happened to me too.
To fix this go into data/save, and erase everything, then regen.
Post by: Nobbins on January 23, 2010, 07:23:11 pm
PS: Originally the step where you overwrite the data folder confused me. I pretty much erased all of the data folder when I put the DD files into it. I just put speech in it this time, hopefully that'll help. =/
Post by: The_Kakaze on January 23, 2010, 08:17:51 pm
Post by: Nobbins on January 23, 2010, 09:29:39 pm
Post by: Deon on January 24, 2010, 12:33:28 am
no, you have to clear /data/objects/ .I found that when I use only the speech files from DD here, my game generates an orc civ no matter what. I mean, even if I have no orc creature or civ entry or any mention of them whatsoever in my raws. And if I do, it gens 2 different orc civs, so they are on the embark civ list twice. :oThis happened to me too.
To fix this go into data/save, and erase everything, then regen.
Post by: The_Kakaze on January 24, 2010, 03:21:53 am
Post by: Lobos on January 24, 2010, 03:41:22 am
Post by: erisiah on January 24, 2010, 11:16:54 pm
I tried to regen but still have the same problem, no migrants and no caravans.In the entity_default.txt entry for Dwarves, the ACTIVE_SEASON line is incorrect. It is currently [AUTUMN]; it needs to be [ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN].
Fixing this allowed me to receive the dwarven caravan; I haven't found if it fixes immigration yet.
EDIT: fixing this line has indeed fixed the problem. It took a while, but I finally got some migrants to show up.
Post by: The13thRonin on January 25, 2010, 12:29:25 am
So, 2 years in still no immigrants. Any ideas as to whats causing it?
I have no idea, I'm still trying different things but it seems to be a pretty random bug... It has to have something to do with the civilization files because they're pretty much the only thing I touched... I'll get back to ya'll when I fix it. As to all the other 'bugs' guys make sure to follow the install instructions at the top of the README... DELETE your raw folders and THEN replace with my raw folders as well as CLEARING everything in the DATA/OBJECTS and DATA/SAVES folder... Make sure you gen a new world.
Post by: The13thRonin on January 25, 2010, 12:32:49 am
Post by: The13thRonin on January 25, 2010, 12:46:39 am
Just download V1.4B
Now... To deal with everyone else... First things first... READ THE README! That's what it's there for! Secondly here are the EXACT install instructions that you need that you should have read in the README.
STEP 1: DELETE YOUR RAW/OBJECTS FOLDER [THAT MEANS DELETE THE FOLDER LABELED "OBJECTS" INSIDE YOUR RAWS FOLDER].
STEP 2: DELETE ALL FILES INSIDE YOUR DATA/OBJECTS AND SAVE FOLDER [THAT MEANS DELETE ALL FILES FOUND INSIDE "OBJECTS" AND "SAVE" FOUND IN YOUR DATA FOLDER].
STEP 3: EXTRACT MY DATA AND RAW FOLDERS INTO THE MAIN DWARF FORTRESS DIRECTORY.
If you do not follow these steps EXACTLY you will see a variety of bugs including but not limited to duplicate entities due to the different entity name changes I have made per version.
Everything should be in order now.
Post by: Zoal on January 25, 2010, 10:44:41 am
Does rantingrodent's pack work with Dig Deeper?
Post by: erisiah on January 25, 2010, 11:45:58 am
hi I'd like to try out Dig Deeper but I use RantingRodent's graphical overhaul pack.It will almost work. Except for the orcs, the added creatures will display as characters since they don't have any graphics defined in the text files.
Does rantingrodent's pack work with Dig Deeper?
Post by: The13thRonin on January 25, 2010, 12:44:27 pm
hi I'd like to try out Dig Deeper but I use RantingRodent's graphical overhaul pack.It will almost work. Except for the orcs, the added creatures will display as characters since they don't have any graphics defined in the text files.
Does rantingrodent's pack work with Dig Deeper?
With tweaking it will work with the orcs... I'm using a modified version of RR's and it covers all the races except the new ones.
Post by: Zoal on January 25, 2010, 05:54:56 pm
Would you upload your modified files for using RR? :)
That'd be awesome
Or maybe include it as an optional folder in Dig Deeper?
Post by: Eagle0600 on January 26, 2010, 07:11:44 am
Mat_Gloss tokens might have to be tweaked too.
Neither of those are too difficult, but you have to know what you are doing, and it's difficult to explain.
Post by: Dwarf on January 26, 2010, 12:47:23 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on January 26, 2010, 06:14:26 pm
Hmm, something is weird. I am literally striking gems and jewels left and right. A good eight or so of all my stones are precious!
Good embark or another bug? Test another site... Anyone else finding that gems are more common in this version?
Post by: Deon on January 27, 2010, 07:52:08 pm
He meant that the orcs are working, and except for the orcs other new creatures don't have graphics.hi I'd like to try out Dig Deeper but I use RantingRodent's graphical overhaul pack.It will almost work. Except for the orcs, the added creatures will display as characters since they don't have any graphics defined in the text files.
Does rantingrodent's pack work with Dig Deeper?
With tweaking it will work with the orcs... I'm using a modified version of RR's and it covers all the races except the new ones.
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on January 28, 2010, 03:04:35 pm
I know they have access to the site but no action what so ever.
EDIT: oh there they are! Its about time!
Now that was awesome. Had they come earlier I probably wouldent have survived.
Post by: The13thRonin on January 30, 2010, 10:46:45 pm
Post by: stormyseasons on January 31, 2010, 08:37:36 am
Impoverished Word Selector
Impoverished Word Selector
Impoverished Word Selector
Impoverished Word Selector
Impoverished Word Selector
[threetoe edit: says "Impoverished Word Selector" a thousand times. Use a spoiler next time.]
*found out what's wrong. apparently my objects folder was nested in another folder named raw, which was itself in the raw folder. cut-pasting the objects folder out, and removing the redundant folder and putting my objects folder back fixed the solution. am running world gen now*
Post by: The Doctor on January 31, 2010, 12:18:35 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on January 31, 2010, 06:15:14 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 31, 2010, 08:47:16 pm
Can you PLEASE put that in a spoiler!?Seconded, Thirded, Ironblooded, Moruled, Tholtiged, and Cacamed.
The four supreme dwarven gods will dislike you unless you do.
Post by: sunshaker on February 01, 2010, 02:43:19 pm
Post by: Greendogo on February 01, 2010, 08:00:31 pm
Post by: Magil on February 03, 2010, 03:32:40 am
It slaughtered a few goblin siege parties before it finally died. I was amused to watch my dwarves walk right by the vampire and pick up the dead goblins' equipment to haul back to the fortress.
Especially since I was killing ratling thieves that the vampire was supposedly the leader of and it didn't seem to care.
Post by: Sphalerite on February 03, 2010, 10:03:37 am
Is it normal for an Ancient Vampire (leader of a ratling civilization) to show up and be friendly to my dwarves?
Seems to be a known issue. Probably due to it being the leader of a civilization you aren't actually at war with. Babysnatchers and thieves don't count as war, they're hard-coded behavior.
When it happened in my fortress I used Dwarf Companion to change my Ancient Vampire to be a member of my civilization. The next spring the dwarves elected her mayor.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 03, 2010, 06:28:32 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on February 03, 2010, 08:44:34 pm
Might I ask what Ilmenite is?
Where's that?
Post by: Imp on February 03, 2010, 08:51:29 pm
Might I ask what Ilmenite is?
Where's that?
It's a type of stone, I believe in the original DF as well as Dig deeper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmenite. You can check your stocks, then stones and scroll through the list to find it and see if it has any 'use' as a metalic ore or for a reaction, or if it's 'just another store' ;p
Post by: Cheddarius on February 03, 2010, 09:08:42 pm
check your stocks, then stonesI strongly recommend that you do not do this. In a mature fortress, checking your stones in the z-stocks menu can freeze your computer up to 10 minutes while Dwarf Fortress tries to count the tens of thousands of stones you have.
Post by: Imp on February 03, 2010, 09:21:05 pm
In case it matters, I'm also using a music mod (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=890) and a couple minor init.txt changes, but these didn't affect stability in any of the previous games for me.
Post by: The13thRonin on February 04, 2010, 06:42:04 am
I just started a new fortress in Dig Deeper, and this specific one is crashing within a few minutes each time I try to play it. I searched this thread for any mention of crashes and saw the request for a copy of the saved game (and this mod's been totally stable for me prior to this one game). In case you're still interested in maps that crash, here's a copy of it. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NRIU7B11
In case it matters, I'm also using a music mod (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=890) and a couple minor init.txt changes, but these didn't affect stability in any of the previous games for me.
Error.log?
Post by: Imp on February 04, 2010, 09:26:47 am
Post by: Goron on February 04, 2010, 03:26:40 pm
But, I'd like to run a Human Fortress in Dig Deeper.
What all do I need to do to mod Dig Deeper to play as humans?
Do I just add [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] to humans, remove [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] from dwarves like normal in entity_default.txt?
And then add
Code: [Select]
[TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_GIANTAXEBLADE]
[TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_ENORMOUSCORKSCREW]
[TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_SPIKEDBALL]
[TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_LARGESERRATEDDISC]
[TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_MENACINGSPIKE]to humans in entity_default.txt?and add
Code: [Select]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:1]to dwarves in entity_default.txt?and last but not least, change [RANGED:BOW:ARROW] to [RANGED:CROSSBOW:ARROW] in item_weapon.txt?
Or... does Dig Deeper change anything that makes this not possible or need to be done differently (and am I even doing it correctly in the first place)?
Thanks
Post by: nowanmai on February 04, 2010, 06:20:42 pm
On embark screen it showed all civs have access to my site, but, after almost two years and many, many Orcs dead, I'm starting to think maybe something's wrong?
I'm using a very long trap tunnel, so my OG7 don't get killed, but now I've got magma and all the ores one could wish for, but I simply lack the dwarfpower for all the tasks.
Any advice?
Edit: I removed the [trapavoid] tag, 'cause Orcs seem too big to just sneak their way in. Better if they come with a 'BANG'. ;D
Post by: Imp on February 04, 2010, 06:39:15 pm
Post by: nowanmai on February 04, 2010, 06:47:46 pm
One possible reason, if your seasonal chance to get caravans or migrants happens to come while you are still being sieged, you'll not get a message or anything, simply the good event wont happen. I don't know how long it's taking you to break the siege, but if it's a very long time and you are spending most of each season with orcs at your door, that's probably why.Usually they come at the start of the season. And to get rid of them takes, well, how fast can your dorfs load the traps again? First time there were one squad of about 8 - 10 Orcs. The next - 3 squads with Swordmasters, Spearmasters and the like. And it was my first winter.
Damn, they're nasty. Like pitbulls - once they latch their teeth in the prey they won't let go. :)
Post by: Imp on February 04, 2010, 06:57:31 pm
Sounds like you're getting some rough luck this map - but migrants will eventually come, and caravans too.
Post by: nowanmai on February 04, 2010, 07:16:36 pm
Very true! Caravans like to come about the 15thish of the early season. With luck they arrive before a siege, and if you have a path to keep both separate you can enjoy both safely. Sometimes the orcs visit erratically, other times they hammer practically four times a year. For my orcs I left them with their trap immune, and made a bridge controlled fall-trap that they are not immune to, with a few other access controlled ways in and out for when the orcs are not quite on the path to death yet but I really need another way in and out.Dunno about the caravans and migrants. It's already year 2 1/2 and still no moth***uckers from the Mountainhome. Forts generated wealth is nearing 200k and Orcs started at about 100k, so this worries me a bit.
Sounds like you're getting some rough luck this map - but migrants will eventually come, and caravans too.
Besides, these fu**ers don't let me get my force up. I still haven't got any immigrants, so every encounter past the stonefall traps is 50/50 for my 7 starters.
The location is pretty sweet, so I just don't want to lose it to some [BADASS MOTHERF**KERS].
Post by: Imp on February 05, 2010, 07:50:23 pm
The only thing the error log said was Midmap effective coordinate check out of bounds, and it said it over and over again a huge number of times.
Post by: Imp on February 07, 2010, 07:45:13 am
Post by: Cheddarius on February 07, 2010, 12:28:55 pm
I think the crash is coming from the rare phantom spider bites.I think this is spectacular. Only in DF, I guess.
Post by: Cariyaga on February 10, 2010, 03:43:08 am
Oh, crap I forgot. I dig deeper. :D
Post by: Jacob/Lee on February 11, 2010, 04:14:03 pm
Post by: Banana on February 11, 2010, 10:53:07 pm
FATAL ERROR
Missing Stone Gloss: LAVENDER JADE
edit:
idk what i did but i guess it works now
Post by: Jacob/Lee on February 12, 2010, 10:35:10 am
Post by: Vieto on February 15, 2010, 05:56:19 pm
it was alive.
it was also in a freezing biome.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on February 15, 2010, 07:31:38 pm
so the elves brought me a Green Slime today.I was killed by green slimes in adventure mode.
it was alive.
it was also in a freezing biome.
They probably sucked me in and drowned me.
Post by: Banana on February 17, 2010, 03:22:13 pm
it says "axe cannot be found" or something and wont let me purchase one
Post by: The13thRonin on February 18, 2010, 06:03:30 pm
Very true! Caravans like to come about the 15thish of the early season. With luck they arrive before a siege, and if you have a path to keep both separate you can enjoy both safely. Sometimes the orcs visit erratically, other times they hammer practically four times a year. For my orcs I left them with their trap immune, and made a bridge controlled fall-trap that they are not immune to, with a few other access controlled ways in and out for when the orcs are not quite on the path to death yet but I really need another way in and out.Dunno about the caravans and migrants. It's already year 2 1/2 and still no moth***uckers from the Mountainhome. Forts generated wealth is nearing 200k and Orcs started at about 100k, so this worries me a bit.
Sounds like you're getting some rough luck this map - but migrants will eventually come, and caravans too.
Besides, these fu**ers don't let me get my force up. I still haven't got any immigrants, so every encounter past the stonefall traps is 50/50 for my 7 starters.
The location is pretty sweet, so I just don't want to lose it to some [BADASS MOTHERF**KERS].
Are you using V1.4B or V1.4? This was a known problem with 1.4 and has been fixed in 1.4B...
Post by: sunshaker on February 18, 2010, 06:59:53 pm
Dragons drop DRAGONSCALE_RAW but there is no reaction to refine it into DRAGONSCALE. This may be addressed when you have the reaction in place but DRAGONSCALE is worth 200 and DRAGONSCALE_RAW is worth 2300, that is probably a typo, but you may be intending to have 12+ pieces of DRAGONSCALE drop from the DRAGONSCALE_RAW.
Post by: The13thRonin on February 18, 2010, 09:44:14 pm
Minor issue with 1.4B (or at least the .txt says it is 1.4B).
Dragons drop DRAGONSCALE_RAW but there is no reaction to refine it into DRAGONSCALE. This may be addressed when you have the reaction in place but DRAGONSCALE is worth 200 and DRAGONSCALE_RAW is worth 2300, that is probably a typo, but you may be intending to have 12+ pieces of DRAGONSCALE drop from the DRAGONSCALE_RAW.
Dragon-scale RAW is actually a cluster of dragon-scales salvaged from the corpse which is unusable unless melted down... There should be a reaction to turn each one into about 12 dragonscale bars :|... Maybe I got it wrong, I'll double check it.
EDIT: Well after checking it I don't actually have a reaction *scratches head*, I'm sure I had one at some stage? Thanks for pointing that out I've made a new reaction to work with the next version. Now... Onto the next bugs!!! ONWARD!!! FORWARDS!!!
NINJA EDIT: Phantom Spider bug quashed... They retain their bite/poison attack but I had to alter it slightly to avoid crashing.
Post by: The13thRonin on February 18, 2010, 10:06:44 pm
When i go to prepare to embark it wont let me have an axe
it says "axe cannot be found" or something and wont let me purchase one
To my knowledge for some reason, as in vanilla you can only hold one type of axe... The only thing that Dig Deeper changes is that hatchets are counted as axes so if you have a hatchet in your embark equipment you will be unable to get an axe also. Just delete the hatchet and search for the axe again.
OK... What bugs do I have left?
Everyone IS getting migrants and dwarven caravans now right?
I just started a new fortress in Dig Deeper, and this specific one is crashing within a few minutes each time I try to play it. I searched this thread for any mention of crashes and saw the request for a copy of the saved game (and this mod's been totally stable for me prior to this one game). In case you're still interested in maps that crash, here's a copy of it. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NRIU7B11
In case it matters, I'm also using a music mod (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=890) and a couple minor init.txt changes, but these didn't affect stability in any of the previous games for me.
Is it possible this was related to the phantom spider bite crash? Were you near a chasm?
Fixed vegetation creatures so they start appearing in worlds, that issue from vanilla DF has been bugging me for awhile... I still need to improve treants... Have one maybe for each wood in the world and all different biomes? Start making forests more dangerous :D.
EDIT: I decided to split up the vampires and werewolves into three ranks... Vampires/Werewolves, Greater Vampires/Werewolves and Ancient Vampires/Werewolves and even out the power a bit, Werewolves got some love.
Did the same three tier rank thing with treants.
Post by: Deon on February 19, 2010, 03:40:28 am
Quote
Have one maybe for each wood in the world and all different biomes?How do you plan to implement "for all different biomes" with specific types?
For now they are MATGLOSS:WOOD and it means that they already use each wood for their name btw.
Post by: The13thRonin on February 19, 2010, 09:28:21 am
QuoteHave one maybe for each wood in the world and all different biomes?How do you plan to implement "for all different biomes" with specific types?
For now they are MATGLOSS:WOOD and it means that they already use each wood for their name btw.
Oh really? Good pick-up... I still have much to learn and it is always pleasant to hear from a master-modder such as yourself Deon :).
Post by: Grendus on February 20, 2010, 11:38:23 am
Post by: The13thRonin on February 20, 2010, 06:29:14 pm
Finally got around to creating a fort in 1.4b. I like it, much more challenging. The dark elves are awful, getting ambushed constantly by enemies decked out in crucible steel, while I can't even get basic forging going because I embarked on a map with no magma and no trees. I have to have half my fort as soldiers to repel invasions, since I don't have enough armor to let them train with weapons. I'm trying to clear out all the stone from my huge farm so I can get the trees growing, but it's tough with only 16 dwarves to do all the labor in a huge fort like that. On the bright side, all the crucible steel armor can be melted down for a good source of elfinite crucible steel. I wonder if you could set it up so that humans/goblins use iron, orcs use steel, and dark elves use crucible steel. Would be interesting flavor, the only difference between orcs and dark elves is that orcs announce their arrival and let me hide while dark elves hunt my haulers.
Dark Elves should also use a lot more ranged weapons.
Post by: Grendus on February 20, 2010, 08:05:16 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on February 20, 2010, 09:49:00 pm
I've gotten a lot of wrestlers. A few bowmen, but most of those came with goblin ambushes. Ironically, I get a lot of dark elf ambushes led by goblins, and goblin ambushes led by dark elves. No humans, dwarves, or elves though. I think the game is set up so it tries to prevent sending entire sieges of archers. They're a good source of crucible steel, if nothing else. Shame the only magma on this map is in the ringmaster's bedroom.
I'll see if I can break that by cutting the DE's melee weapons and adding in much, much more ranged weapons... They will become known as the invisible death... I will it so! :D
PS - I think we hit the most popular/downloaded total conversion mod a while ago and I think we're only second in total mods (including graphics sets) next to Stonesense... Well done guys :D. I'm really happy that so many people are enjoying the mod and I will keep working to ensure a higher quality for future versions!
I will eventually get around to releasing my own graphics for the creatures... But like Toady, that is a low priority compared to enhancing the gameplay first!
Keep digging deeper!
Post by: CaptApollo12 on February 21, 2010, 12:34:35 am
Post by: The13thRonin on February 21, 2010, 12:41:33 am
Im using relentless and I try to mush as much stuff in a version of df as possible. So use dig deeper.
Uh, I don't understand? You already use Dig Deeper?
Post by: The13thRonin on February 22, 2010, 11:40:35 pm
I'm not just active in the Dwarf Fortress modding community, I have many aliases.
Post by: Abaddon on February 23, 2010, 08:45:33 am
Post by: The13thRonin on February 23, 2010, 09:17:28 am
Are war elephants supposed to be playable in adventure mode or is this a problem because I modded something, I'm sure I deleted my raw folder before I loaded it up.
Definitely a problem on your end. Sorry.
Post by: Pathos on February 23, 2010, 09:40:55 am
Use it! Make your game beautiful!
Post by: The13thRonin on February 23, 2010, 09:53:09 am
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=49281.0
Use it! Make your game beautiful!
I'd just like to point out that this mod contains quite a number of unapproved/unsanctioned changes to essential components of Dig Deeper which I believe break the balance (such as changes to the entities folder). As such I cannot provide support for it.
While I encourage mod-makers using my work to build-upon or as a base for their own mods I would suggest that you still maintain a Dwarf Fortress folder which contains the official version of Dig Deeper so you can keep up with the latest changes and can get the most up to date support.
Post by: darthbob88 on February 23, 2010, 01:57:20 pm
Post by: tehstefan on February 23, 2010, 10:24:14 pm
Post by: vorpal+5 on February 24, 2010, 02:46:05 am
Post by: buklamang on February 25, 2010, 09:15:11 am
Is the game more difficult than vanilla, when it comes to critters and siege armies? I want challenge, ideally I would like to know if I can combine it with Relentless assaults mod...
Briefly: Oh Yes.
Post by: The13thRonin on February 25, 2010, 06:21:23 pm
Ran into gargoyle problem, as noted earlier in the thread; it has tags which require [HAS_RACEGLOSS], but lacks that tag. Tried adding [HAS_RACEGLOSS:STONE], which did not work, it still produces "statue", without any material given. Am considering simply replacing USE_RACEGLOSS with OBSIDIAN or MARBLE to deal with this problem.
Fixing it for next version... The same tags seem to work fine for wooden creatures... Grr...
I checked the Read me, but I'm still wondering, what's the biggest shift from last version to this version? The new elves?
Lots and lots of balance tweaking as well as three new races; halflings, dark elves and ratlings. It takes a long time to get so many entities to co-exist in a large world without wiping each other out completely by the end of world-gen. I'm sort of waiting on the new version to start modding again. I'm going to build the mod from the ground up, how exciting :D!
Post by: Ari on February 25, 2010, 07:07:55 pm
Post by: Randall Octagonapus on February 25, 2010, 11:24:06 pm
Post by: RantingRodent on February 26, 2010, 12:03:57 am
I've been meaning to replace the Dragon sprite anyway.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/15q2es2.png)
Post by: The13thRonin on February 26, 2010, 08:30:00 am
I just noticed that Ronin mentioned using my graphics pack, so I decided to whip up some DD-specific creatures.
I've been meaning to replace the Dragon sprite anyway.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/15q2es2.png)
Those are amazing. Thank you so much! I am a big fan of your work :).
Post by: darthbob88 on February 26, 2010, 10:32:09 am
And yes, I am aware that it might take some modding to make this possible. I'm willing and know how; add [PET]/[PET_EXOTIC] and [trAINABLE] to their raws.
Post by: Repulsion on February 26, 2010, 06:56:14 pm
Post by: Count Dorku on February 26, 2010, 07:17:41 pm
Also, can you have more than one mod at the same time?
I believe so; I tried combining mods once, but there were so many redundant creature tokens that typeless meat began appearing from nothing in the embark menu.
Post by: praguepride on February 27, 2010, 10:46:31 am
I'm speculating that the game is trying to reference something that is from either the deleted objects file or a critter has a '0' attribute that is used in some equation.
I think it's involved with an animal as when I first tried to embark to a location, it crashed with the error, but when I tried to embark there again, it worked fine. The minerals and landmarks were all the same, the only difference would be the starting pack of animals & plants.
Post by: Safe-Keeper on February 28, 2010, 05:11:06 pm
Can't wait for the actual sieges to begin :) .
Post by: Sir Reginald Bathwater on March 01, 2010, 06:26:30 pm
Post by: John Keel on March 08, 2010, 02:05:40 pm
EDIT: Dur... Dig Dwarfier is .zip. I guess I'll go with that.
Post by: RantingRodent on March 08, 2010, 04:03:23 pm
Post by: John Keel on March 08, 2010, 06:50:34 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on March 09, 2010, 04:15:50 am
Eh, it's close enough.
Not really, I'll provide a zip within the next few days for you mac people though :).
Post by: Greendogo on March 10, 2010, 04:13:03 pm
Is there a Macintosh version of this? The download is .rar, and I have no way to open that sort of file...You can actually open a rar file. Just use 7-zip, which is free and (I believe) open source. It can be run on quite a number of systems and you can get it here:
EDIT: Dur... Dig Dwarfier is .zip. I guess I'll go with that.
http://www.7-zip.org/download.html (http://www.7-zip.org/download.html)
Post by: pavlov on March 11, 2010, 11:06:27 am
Quote
Raw ilmenite is refined by decreasing the iron content. Carbon (anthracite) is used to convert some of the iron oxide in the ilmenite to metallic iron. The products of this process are molten iron (pig iron) and a slag rich in titanium. A related process is the Becher process.
So something like
Code: [Select]
[REACTION:TITANIUM_MAKING2]
[NAME:make titanium bars]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:COAL:NO_MATGLOSS]
[REAGENT:2:STONE:NO_SUBTYPE:STONE:ILMENITE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:TITANIUM]
[PRODUCT:25:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:PIG_IRON]
[FUEL]
Not really sure if the pig iron is necessary. Could just make it 1 coal + 1 ilmenite -> 1 Ti
Post by: sunshaker on March 11, 2010, 11:50:23 am
This means that the amount of iron = the amount of titanium in ilmenite, so logically any reaction that refines ilmenite should produce equal amounts of both metals (and 3 times as much oxygen).
The problem is that you can easily strip the iron from ilmenite in a blast furnace, but you can not strip the titanium (or the oxygen) from the ilmenite through the same reaction. It goes something like ilmenite + coke + flux > pig iron* + slag (rich in Ti, basically it is everything in the ilmenite that was not iron + everything in the flux + residue of the coke). You can then chemically treat the slag with acids, bases and other fun stuff to get TiO, TiO2 (rutile), TiO3 (and a different kind of slag) which you can then feed into the rutile > titanium process.
The big problem is that titanium is very reactive with oxygen (just like aluminum), more so than iron or carbon (you can strip the oxygen from iron ore, all iron ores are Fe#O#, because the oxygen would rather hang out with the carbon than the iron, oxygen would rather hang out with titanium and aluminum than carbon, which is why pre-industrial tech can't smelt those ores and why you need the acids, bases and catalysts to refine them).
You can however reduce (strip the oxygen from it) ilmenite with coke to FeCTi (very hard, very brittle ceramic substance) which can be used to make Ti rich Alloy Steels (relatively rare, search ferrotitanium) or cutting tools.
You can also reduce rutile with copper or manganese (copper makes cuprotitanium, rather like a bronze made with aluminum; manganese makes manganotitanium which can be used to make Alloy Steels or further refined to the pure metals).
This is one of those situations where you have to get it stupidly hot to reduce it (like bauxite) or you have to perform some chemical tricks to get what you want out of it.
---
* just the way blast furnaces work they make pig iron which is then converted into iron and steel
Post by: vorpal+5 on March 11, 2010, 04:43:57 pm
Post by: Phazer on March 12, 2010, 08:52:58 am
There is no graphic with the mod?
well if you search you can easily find graphic mod for orcs
if those ''O''s bother you
and to answer youre question: no
Post by: The_Kakaze on March 15, 2010, 07:39:54 pm
Post by: sunshaker on March 15, 2010, 07:55:26 pm
Have sunberries been removed from the list of growable aboveground plants?
A quick check of the raws says they are still in there and unchanged. It may be a change in the code by Toady forcing them to be only in the certain biomes.
Post by: Olith McHuman on March 16, 2010, 06:02:35 pm
Post by: Repulsion on March 16, 2010, 06:18:57 pm
Post by: ungulateman on March 19, 2010, 06:37:18 am
Post by: mrbobbyg on March 19, 2010, 01:13:34 pm
Geese are rather annoying, and seem to be the only inhabitants of my river.
I have lost more Dwarves to geese than any other animal. They are truly vicious.
Post by: lastofthelight on March 19, 2010, 06:22:47 pm
Is this a Dig Deeper bug? Anyone know how I set the value of bone in a raw tag? This is rather annoying. Even the leather is worthless.
Post by: Scruga on March 21, 2010, 01:36:49 am
Post by: ungulateman on March 21, 2010, 07:52:41 am
Post by: Jacob/Lee on March 21, 2010, 02:03:37 pm
A massive facepalm on my part, I thought orcs weren't trap immune so I put lots of traps in my entrance and had no soldiers. The orcs came, watched them trample the traps without dying.
They proceeded to obliterate every dwarf in the fortress.
Post by: Safe-Keeper on March 30, 2010, 12:00:03 am
Is this some sort of new Merlin-inspired feature ("he who manages to pull the battle axe off of the wagon so that we can reclaim this bloody forts while the Orcs stand around as "Friendly" will be the Dwarf empire's new king"), or have I installed the mod wrong or something?
Post by: xoen on March 30, 2010, 04:13:12 am
Quote
walk a few tiles away from it, then walk to it again.interesting..i had same problem with MINERS and some kind of pickaxe after joining some mods(including ddwarfier, civ overhaul, and some other ones), reedit of that "weapon" weigh, or size(if i remember right) helped(imho weapon was too HEAVY, or too big, or sth). I may be wrong, though.
upd: mattock, yes.
|
v
Post by: SquidgyB on March 30, 2010, 04:43:02 am
Got a really annoying bug here. My military dwarves seem to be unable to pick up weapons and other equipment such as shields. They'll walk over to, say, a battle axe with "Pickup Equipment", then walk a few tiles away from it, then walk to it again. If there's more than one trying to pick it up, they'll take turns trying to wrestle it from the ground.
Is this some sort of new Merlin-inspired feature ("he who manages to pull the battle axe off of the wagon so that we can reclaim this bloody forts while the Orcs stand around as "Friendly" will be the Dwarf empire's new king"), or have I installed the mod wrong or something?
Check to see if the dwarf in question has anything in his/her hands already, particularly if we're talking about axe/hatchet/pick for mining or woodcutting. I had the same thing when one of my dwarfs had either something in his hand, possibly a shield, and was set to use a mattock with both hands - he just kept running back to pick up the mattock, then ran a couple of steps and turned around again.
Post by: Safe-Keeper on March 30, 2010, 08:51:13 am
Just lost another fortress to an orc attack... I'm thinking of modding them out, because it seems the only way to defeat them is to make it physically impossible for them to reach you (locking doors, raising drawbridge over moat, etc.), and that breaks their AI, making them too easy. I can pelt them with crossbow bolts, throw war dogs at them or hit them with swords and battle axes of steel, but I never seem to cause more than a single broken limbs. Managed to mangle some organs and whatnot of one or two of them today, which was a step forward -- guess I'll need to step up the siege engine production. I miss the old goblin sieges.
A brighter point is that since I've taken to always spend points on giving all my starting dwarves a Proficient skill in Swimming, I managed to killed a dozen carp, plus a couple other fishies :) . My swordswarf would see the little beings as a welcome break from the boring routines of military life and gladly jump into the river for then to swim around with his sword, chopping the little buggers to pieces, for then to climb back up on shore.
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2010, 04:41:31 pm
Hmm, possibly. Made a backup of the fortress I really want to continue playing on, so maybe I'll try to get back into it now. The hostiles just standing around and showing up as Friendly in the beginning is a stock bug/feature, I know, so I guess we'll just have to wait for Toady to address that.
Just lost another fortress to an orc attack... I'm thinking of modding them out, because it seems the only way to defeat them is to make it physically impossible for them to reach you (locking doors, raising drawbridge over moat, etc.), and that breaks their AI, making them too easy. I can pelt them with crossbow bolts, throw war dogs at them or hit them with swords and battle axes of steel, but I never seem to cause more than a single broken limbs. Managed to mangle some organs and whatnot of one or two of them today, which was a step forward -- guess I'll need to step up the siege engine production. I miss the old goblin sieges.
A brighter point is that since I've taken to always spend points on giving all my starting dwarves a Proficient skill in Swimming, I managed to killed a dozen carp, plus a couple other fishies :) . My swordswarf would see the little beings as a welcome break from the boring routines of military life and gladly jump into the river for then to swim around with his sword, chopping the little buggers to pieces, for then to climb back up on shore.
Drowning trap work, but that's a big abuse of the AI.
Post by: Moontayle on March 30, 2010, 06:24:57 pm
Hmm, possibly. Made a backup of the fortress I really want to continue playing on, so maybe I'll try to get back into it now. The hostiles just standing around and showing up as Friendly in the beginning is a stock bug/feature, I know, so I guess we'll just have to wait for Toady to address that.Go into the raws and edit the progression for orcs to something higher. I set them to 4, which is generally after the Baron arrives which is long enough to get decent defenses and a military going.
Just lost another fortress to an orc attack... I'm thinking of modding them out, because it seems the only way to defeat them is to make it physically impossible for them to reach you (locking doors, raising drawbridge over moat, etc.), and that breaks their AI, making them too easy. I can pelt them with crossbow bolts, throw war dogs at them or hit them with swords and battle axes of steel, but I never seem to cause more than a single broken limbs. Managed to mangle some organs and whatnot of one or two of them today, which was a step forward -- guess I'll need to step up the siege engine production. I miss the old goblin sieges.
A brighter point is that since I've taken to always spend points on giving all my starting dwarves a Proficient skill in Swimming, I managed to killed a dozen carp, plus a couple other fishies :) . My swordswarf would see the little beings as a welcome break from the boring routines of military life and gladly jump into the river for then to swim around with his sword, chopping the little buggers to pieces, for then to climb back up on shore.
Post by: Safe-Keeper on March 30, 2010, 09:51:15 pm
Damnit, never mind, told the search companion to search file name instead of content :-\.
Post by: nbws_tempest on April 01, 2010, 04:56:03 pm
Post by: Greendogo on April 02, 2010, 05:48:29 pm
Post by: ungulateman on April 02, 2010, 06:27:01 pm
Post by: crazz2323 on April 29, 2010, 09:32:27 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on April 29, 2010, 10:00:50 pm
is there goign to be a new dig deeper released for 2010? im reading the release information for 2010 and it seems pretty major unfortunately
I'm working on the first major release for DF2010... It really did mess up a lot of the RAWS so it's taking me longer than expected... Unfortunately it will take me a long time and a lot of releases to build things like the creature list all the way back up... But we'll get there in the end... So far the alpha has 293 additions and counting.
Post by: Landstradd on April 30, 2010, 10:58:55 am
Post by: The13thRonin on April 30, 2010, 12:12:22 pm
You sir, are a god. Any chance of a time frame for the alpha?
With my workload at the moment getting in the way of me polishing the alpha, I'd say give me a bit less than a week, a few days if I'm lucky... The first release will probably have issues but I'm sticking with this project so slowly I'll iron them out with you guys to help :)!
Post by: Deon on April 30, 2010, 12:50:49 pm
Post by: Meanmelter on May 01, 2010, 10:17:20 pm
Post by: Labhras on May 27, 2010, 05:32:44 pm
Post by: Firehound on June 03, 2010, 07:54:14 pm
Giant Preying mantis. Ambush predator with spiked arms which they use to grasp their prey.
Post by: Devast on June 05, 2010, 12:41:48 am
Post by: godisdead132 on July 08, 2010, 03:05:48 pm
Post by: Riversand on July 08, 2010, 03:36:47 pm
Post by: lordnincompoop on July 11, 2010, 08:00:16 am
Post by: Xyon on September 24, 2010, 08:38:18 pm
Post by: Drakeero on November 08, 2010, 03:09:50 pm
And by the way, how do you set colors for metals? I haven't seen your mithril yet but I'm hoping its a cobaltite or kimberlite blue, and I'm interested in privately modding adamantine into a nice dark olivine green.
[avid Runescape player here, can you tell?]
Post by: Deon on December 25, 2010, 09:56:13 am
Post by: Thundercraft on December 27, 2010, 10:22:01 pm
BTW: Instead of hunting for the thread to the (slightly) newer Alpha version, here's the link:
DIG DEEPER [2010] ALPHA! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56229.0)
Post by: The13thRonin on December 28, 2010, 01:11:32 am
Yes. This looks like a good thing and I hope this mod does not get abandoned.
BTW: Instead of hunting for the thread to the (slightly) newer Alpha version, here's the link:
DIG DEEPER [2010] ALPHA! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56229.0)
I am still around. I just have so little time to work on the mod these days... About to begin full-time work :(. A mans gotta eat you know?
But this project is not abandoned... It is however on a hold as of this moment... I won't be picking it up again anytime soon but I won't forget it either. Thank you all for your support, I enjoyed making this mod and seeing so many people enjoy made it all the better :). You guys truly are a great community, and you should be proud of that.
PS - I might be looking as to put a small team of dedicated modders together in the future to help me continue the project and bring it properly into the 2010 version. If you think you have any skills that could be of help please feel free to send me a message :). We will have to see what the future holds!
Post by: Nether on December 28, 2010, 01:51:43 am
I hope some modders will get together, back in 40d this was the mod to play for me!Yes. This looks like a good thing and I hope this mod does not get abandoned.
BTW: Instead of hunting for the thread to the (slightly) newer Alpha version, here's the link:
DIG DEEPER [2010] ALPHA! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56229.0)
I am still around. I just have so little time to work on the mod these days... About to begin full-time work :(. A mans gotta eat you know?
But this project is not abandoned... It is however on a hold as of this moment... I won't be picking it up again anytime soon but I won't forget it either. Thank you all for your support, I enjoyed making this mod and seeing so many people enjoy made it all the better :). You guys truly are a great community, and you should be proud of that.
PS - I might be looking as to put a small team of dedicated modders together in the future to help me continue the project and bring it properly into the 2010 version. If you think you have any skills that could be of help please feel free to send me a message :). We will have to see what the future holds!
Whoohooo!
Post by: skaltum on February 25, 2011, 12:52:46 pm
Post by: ninja137 on March 31, 2011, 08:58:55 am
Post by: goukaryuujin on March 31, 2011, 06:38:04 pm
Post by: Dohon on April 02, 2011, 02:42:56 pm
Post by: skaltum on May 02, 2011, 09:16:16 am
to get ronins attention
Post by: Deon on May 02, 2011, 09:20:55 am