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Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 01:41:25 am

Title: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 01:41:25 am
They just tried to card me to by a T rated game!  Supposedly they've been doing it for a "long time" but for some reason it's only come up for the first time today.  They refused to sell me the game because I didn't have a government picture ID.  Even when I showed them my college ID.  How many 13 year olds even have a government ID?!

Rawrg!! I call down the wrath of Armok upon them!!!
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Muz on May 20, 2009, 01:42:58 am
Ah, I remember being equally annoyed when I was under 18. Damn all those places that required people to be 18+.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Okenido on May 20, 2009, 01:43:59 am
I'll boycott them. I've always preferred buying from the developers themselves.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 01:44:06 am
Ah, I remember being equally annoyed when I was under 18. Damn all those places that required people to be 18+.

I'm 22 and have a mustache, and I haven't shaved in a few days.  They refused to sell me a game that's rated for 13 year olds.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Virroken on May 20, 2009, 01:44:34 am
What game did they try to card you for? Was it Battletoads?
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 01:45:41 am
Unfortunately there is no Gamestops where I live... they go by another name and give better service to a degree. (such as selling things for a LOT less then Futureshop)

Though the one I used to go to had a decent PC section... but it moved and they decided to give it a really small section where you can't even see any of the PC games.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 01:50:39 am
What game did they try to card you for? Was it Battletoads?

I tried to buy a copy of Hidden and Dangerous 2 which I'd found, as well as used copies of Timesplitters: Future Perfect and Oni.  The first two are M(17) rated, and I actually bought a copy of H&D 2 from them just a few weeks ago and thought I should get another to lend to someone else for multiplayer since they were cheap but this time they wouldn't sell it to me.  The other is is T(13) rated and they still wouldn't sell it to me.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Micro102 on May 20, 2009, 01:55:25 am
yeh my gamestop went downhill too, they didnt card me (gov. ID might mean drivers license, goverment issued ID) but their PC section is long gone.

now i have a gamecraze and a hollywood videos right next to each other :)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 01:57:38 am
I think they are jumping on the whole "PC games area dead" train way too fast...

Then again I remember going to blockbuster once and seeing they bought a whole section worth of Catwoman games for people to rent... (Did anyone believe a catwoman game based off of a movie, that wasn't any good, would have any value?)

So they could just think they are PC stupid.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 02:00:06 am
I don't understand your last post... What does Catwoman have to do with PC games being stupid?
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 02:05:47 am
I don't understand your last post... What does Catwoman have to do with PC games being stupid?

They probably think they will buy a bunch of bad PC games that no one will buy in the same way that Blockbuster keeps buying bad videogames that no one will rent.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Keilden on May 20, 2009, 02:05:58 am
It was about a Catwoman PC game.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 02:11:34 am
I don't understand your last post... What does Catwoman have to do with PC games being stupid?

They probably think they will buy a bunch of bad PC games that no one will buy in the same way that Blockbuster keeps buying bad videogames that no one will rent.

Oh ok, what bad PC games are they buying though?
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 02:25:26 am
Quote
Oh ok, what bad PC games are they buying though?

Well it is more of a guess then me knowing...
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Okenido on May 20, 2009, 02:31:09 am
Spore.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 02:33:17 am
Spore.

Naw Spore sold well and got less returns then lets say... MySims

I unfortunately kinda liked MySims, but recognised it was pure garbage, but was fooled into belieivng MySims Kingdom was basically a true sequel (it wasn't).
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Micro102 on May 20, 2009, 02:52:17 am
you cant return PC games...and it sold well because of false advertisement, and was pirated the most because of a root-kit type DRM

its is without a doubt a bad PC game
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on May 20, 2009, 03:02:55 am
Spore is one of the most over-hyped games out there. To me, it's only a collection of mini-games that aren't even original in designs and features. The best thing about it is the character creation. The rest are rubbish.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Dasleah on May 20, 2009, 03:34:25 am
HERE'S TO LESS RETAILERS FOLLOWING THE LAW!

seriously what the hell are you arguing about
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Okenido on May 20, 2009, 03:35:52 am
Why follow the law?

"Acquiring" things is so much more fun and cheap.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 03:50:13 am
Quote
its is without a doubt a bad PC game

I've played legitimate bad games before...

It is an alright game that you might as well skip then a bad game.

Though I think I had more fun playing Graffiti Kingdom (DANG IT MAKE A SEQUEL TO THAT!!!... and Monster Rancher while your at it... and maybe Fatal Frame)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 04:14:12 am
HERE'S TO LESS RETAILERS FOLLOWING THE LAW!

seriously what the hell are you arguing about

What are you talking about?  The law that says that retailers are required to card customers to make sure they are following ESRB guidelines?  I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 04:20:34 am
Shhhh don't blame the government... they have eyes everywhe
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 04:22:15 am
Shhhh don't blame the government... they have eyes everywhe

Well according to this site the bill was never voted on and got tossed out.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3315 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3315)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 20, 2009, 04:23:04 am
There is no, there should never be a law. It should be a voluntary thing.

The ESRB guidelines provide resources for retailers of all sizes to make informed responsible choice. For instance, at walmart, for m rated games and r rated movies, the registers ask for an id check.  As does most major retailers.

Though I do find it odd that they sold you a week before and now refuse to. As for the stache, that not much of an indicator. I would try and speak with the manager and bring in your old reciete from the week previous, and and bitch and whine, to get some store credit. 
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 04:30:34 am
There is no, there should never be a law. It should be a voluntary thing.

The ESRB guidelines provide resources for retailers of all sizes to make informed responsible choice. For instance, at walmart, for m rated games and r rated movies, the registers ask for an id check.  As does most major retailers.

Though I do find it odd that they sold you a week before and now refuse to. As for the stache, that not much of an indicator. I would try and speak with the manager and bring in your old reciete from the week previous, and and bitch and whine, to get some store credit. 

I have a stache and a thin beard, like I said, I haven't shaved in four days.  Twelve year olds do not look like me... trust me on this.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 04:32:30 am
Quote
I don't look like a twelve year old, trust me on this

Maybe you looked soo NOT twelve years old that they thought you were twelve years old.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 04:34:54 am
Quote
I don't look like a twelve year old, trust me on this

Maybe you looked soo NOT twelve years old that they thought you were twelve years old.

Usually I'd find that funny, but I'm just not in the mood for sillyness atm.  Sorry. :P
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 04:47:12 am
Hmm this is serious... Gamestop has scared you for life.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 04:55:12 am
Hmm this is serious... Gamestop has scared you for life.

It has!  Oh god!!  Or maybe that's something else that's been bothering me.  I sure hope so cause that would be allot more reasonable...
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 04:59:24 am
Well looking at your past posts I think I found out what it is

Quote
Wish I'd had Sea Dogs 2
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 20, 2009, 05:04:49 am
I don't understand your last post... What does Catwoman have to do with PC games being stupid?

They probably think they will buy a bunch of bad PC games that no one will buy in the same way that Blockbuster keeps buying bad videogames that no one will rent.

Wait... why would they do this? Can you like me to somewhere with more information on the subject?
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 05:11:52 am
Unintended of course Chaoticjosh and I already stated that I am guessing that is why they may be downsizing their PC section out of mostly jest.

If you want info on Blockbuster I only have the experience of the fact that my blockbuster, who must be run by chimps, keeps buying "Based on a movie" videogames on mass.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 05:17:24 am
The Two Towers was sort of fun...  So was setting up chain reactions of bombs in Battle for Middle Earth, even if that was about the only thing.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 05:26:42 am
The Two Towers was sort of fun...  So was setting up chain reactions of bombs in Battle for Middle Earth, even if that was about the only thing.

Yeah there are quite a few fun "Based off a movie" games (though most of the fun ones come out quite a bit after the movie) but for every one of them there are at least five bad ones.

My favorite: Aladin for the SNES
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Mr. Boh on May 20, 2009, 08:23:48 am
I can see why you're frustrated. I got carded there as well, at 28 with a wedding ring on and in a suit, which was a bit surprising. If I didn't have my driver's license on me I'd have been very mad as well. Maybe they're just pressured to do it to just about anyone. Ever since they shrunk the PC section to one shelf in the back of the store I try to avoid it at all costs anyway though.

Talk to the manager, bring your ID next time, or buy online/direct download!
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Muz on May 20, 2009, 08:46:02 am
Lol, they're pull the policy back soon enough, once they realize that it's scaring away customers. I know plenty of stores that sell cigarettes to 14 year olds just because it makes money. I don't see why games would be more strictly policed.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 09:52:21 am
Because games make you murder people of course silly! :D
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Zaranthan on May 20, 2009, 10:21:29 am
Get us their number, so we can call them and ask if they have Battletoads in stock.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 10:27:32 am
Get us their number, so we can call them and ask if they have Battletoads in stock.

(808) 674-1158
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 20, 2009, 10:28:26 am
Get us their number, so we can call them and ask if they have Battletoads in stock.

Call me crazy but I actually liked Battletoads and Double Dragon better.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Soulwynd on May 20, 2009, 10:48:31 am
I've been boycotting them all my life. Never bought anything with gamestop. Course, we don't have it where I live. =p
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Random832 on May 20, 2009, 10:57:26 am
HERE'S TO LESS RETAILERS FOLLOWING THE LAW!

seriously what the hell are you arguing about

For one thing, retailers are NOT required by law to request ID, or even to not sell a game to someone who's under the age on the rating.

For another thing - even for cigarettes and alcohol (you know, the stuff for which there is a law), they only* have to request ID if you look like you're under 35 - for 13, that'd translate on a purely numeric basis (not counting the fact that people under 13 look a hell of a lot less like people over, say, 16, than 19-year-olds can look like 21-year-olds) to 22.

*I'm not a lawyer, I'm just pointing out what it says on the "We Card" signs.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: DJ on May 20, 2009, 11:27:08 am
Get us their number, so we can call them and ask if they have Battletoads in stock.

Call me crazy but I actually liked Battletoads and Double Dragon better.
Oh man, that was the awesomest game ever. I never managed to get past that robot boss with extendible limbs until I rom-ed it and save-cheated.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Soulwynd on May 20, 2009, 11:27:26 am
Afaik, ESRB is a -guideline-. You can buy an M game for your teenager kid. The said teenager kid can buy a M rated game himself as well.

Unless there's a law that allows them to deny you service based on your age, you can sue them.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 11:35:45 am
Can't I just report them to some authority?  Suing costs more money then I was going to spend on the games.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 20, 2009, 12:05:05 pm
Afaik, ESRB is a -guideline-. You can buy an M game for your teenager kid. The said teenager kid can buy a M rated game himself as well.

Unless there's a law that allows them to deny you service based on your age, you can sue them.

There is. Basically, if you walk into a shop and the shopkeep wont sell you something, it's his right. He doesn't have to provide a reason.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 12:22:31 pm
Technically it's not age discrimination because they refused me service based on the fact that I didn't have an ID, not based on my age.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 20, 2009, 12:24:36 pm
Again, still perfectly legal. Age discrimination is silly. If you're 20-60, you should be assumed to be normal. Anything out of that deserves some sort of inspection.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 12:29:45 pm
Again, still perfectly legal. Age discrimination is silly. If you're 20-60, you should be assumed to be normal. Anything out of that deserves some sort of inspection.

I'm not saying it's illegal, just a much stronger word for idiotic.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Soulwynd on May 20, 2009, 12:34:44 pm
Afaik, ESRB is a -guideline-. You can buy an M game for your teenager kid. The said teenager kid can buy a M rated game himself as well.

Unless there's a law that allows them to deny you service based on your age, you can sue them.

There is. Basically, if you walk into a shop and the shopkeep wont sell you something, it's his right. He doesn't have to provide a reason.
It's illegal in brazil.

But then again... It's brazil.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2009, 12:35:30 pm
Two words.  Funcoland.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ampersand on May 20, 2009, 12:44:22 pm
I don't think they should be carding people for T rated games. M rated games, that's another matter. I believe they do have to card you for those, at most places, but T rated games? They're usually more tame than a PG-13 rated movie.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: beorn080 on May 20, 2009, 01:15:48 pm
They are carding for teen games now. Great.

How is a 13 year old supposed to get an ID. The only two I know of that are available are passports and county IDs, and how many people know about county IDs.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Hawkfrost on May 20, 2009, 01:18:32 pm
But..but..but... if I boycott them how am I supposed to get Thief 3 for Xbox?
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2009, 01:21:01 pm
You don't, you play Dwarf Fortress.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 20, 2009, 01:29:50 pm
Afaik, ESRB is a -guideline-. You can buy an M game for your teenager kid. The said teenager kid can buy a M rated game himself as well.

Unless there's a law that allows them to deny you service based on your age, you can sue them.

That would be interesting test case for industry voluntary guide lines.

It would have ramification on all media industry. If you won, then it would let let 17< into nc-17 (rare, but that would be the ramification).

It would possibly even affect pornography age resctrition laws.

On a personal thing, please don't sue the ersb. Their a small non profit group doing there best to stop state regulation from all media. We don't need FCC for video games, music, or movies. Hell, we don't need it for tv and radio. (They should stick to the their actually much needed job, of regulating the em bandwidth.)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: beorn080 on May 20, 2009, 01:45:47 pm
Afaik, ESRB is a -guideline-. You can buy an M game for your teenager kid. The said teenager kid can buy a M rated game himself as well.

Unless there's a law that allows them to deny you service based on your age, you can sue them.

That would be interesting test case for industry voluntary guide lines.

It would have ramification on all media industry. If you won, then it would let let 17< into nc-17 (rare, but that would be the ramification).

It would possibly even affect pornography age resctrition laws.

On a personal thing, please don't sue the ersb. Their a small non profit group doing there best to stop state regulation from all media. We don't need FCC for video games, music, or movies. Hell, we don't need it for tv and radio. (They should stick to the their actually much needed job, of regulating the em bandwidth.)
AFAIK, the R rating is enforced by law. In addition, I think M rated games get covered by obsenity laws, but I am not sure on that one. I do know that any store can refuse service, it just has to be across the board. Discrimination for age is reasonable in the eyes of the law. Just look at those 16 year olds being prosecuted as adults for trasmitting naked pictures of themselves.

For the porn, your NEVER going to get that law changed, even though its silly.

I must agree with the not suing the ESRB. They are pretty much the last thing left before gaming becomes as bad as movies with ratings.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Random832 on May 20, 2009, 01:58:16 pm
AFAIK, the R rating is enforced by law. In addition, I think M rated games get covered by obsenity laws,

Obscenity is actually illegal, it's not an age restriction category. And anyway, If the ratings were enforced by law, they'd have to be set by the government rather than by an industry association.

There _are_ laws about distributing content that is "harmful to minors", which is the basis for the age restriction on pornography, but - again - that's determined on the specific merits of the content if it goes to court; not based on ratings that may have any number of unrelated criteria

*I'm not a lawyer
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 20, 2009, 02:27:40 pm
Afaik, ESRB is a -guideline-. You can buy an M game for your teenager kid. The said teenager kid can buy a M rated game himself as well.

Unless there's a law that allows them to deny you service based on your age, you can sue them.

That would be interesting test case for industry voluntary guide lines.

It would have ramification on all media industry. If you won, then it would let let 17< into nc-17 (rare, but that would be the ramification).

It would possibly even affect pornography age resctrition laws.

On a personal thing, please don't sue the ersb. Their a small non profit group doing there best to stop state regulation from all media. We don't need FCC for video games, music, or movies. Hell, we don't need it for tv and radio. (They should stick to the their actually much needed job, of regulating the em bandwidth.)
AFAIK, the R rating is enforced by law. In addition, I think M rated games get covered by obsenity laws, but I am not sure on that one. I do know that any store can refuse service, it just has to be across the board. Discrimination for age is reasonable in the eyes of the law. Just look at those 16 year olds being prosecuted as adults for trasmitting naked pictures of themselves.

For the porn, your NEVER going to get that law changed, even though its silly.

I must agree with the not suing the ESRB. They are pretty much the last thing left before gaming becomes as bad as movies with ratings.

No its not. The MPAA rating system is very similar ERSB, in that it up to the theater to follow them. Completely voluntary. Now, no theater will accept a movie without an MPAA rating, much how major retailers won't sell games without an ERSB rating.

However, my independent movies, or independent games don't need a rating. (On how its voluntary even if the distribution centers require it.)



I'll through this out there, why is the age requirement silly for porn?

Admittedly I've been looking at porn since I was 14. However, being older I can recognized it as being inappropriate for minors.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: jaked122 on May 20, 2009, 04:08:26 pm
rated T carded...? WTF, I've gone to gamestop, but I can't say that's ever happened to me, current age 15.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Sowelu on May 20, 2009, 04:15:27 pm
I'm pretty sure this is a company attempting to be noble and strike back at THE MAN, or..whatever.

I think it's hilarious that now they have become THE MAN in some eyes.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 20, 2009, 04:24:28 pm
Someday, I wish to be shown why being successful is bad.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Okenido on May 20, 2009, 05:02:56 pm
THE MAN is EA Games.

Mostly due to excessive DRM, and poor quality.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Sowelu on May 20, 2009, 05:21:08 pm
Someday, I wish to be shown why being successful is bad.

Can't please everyone.

The more popular you are, the harder it is for the people you don't please to just not care about you at all.

Also, successful businesses often change over time, and that often means alienating some people along the road.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 20, 2009, 05:37:00 pm
THE MAN is EA Games.

Mostly due to excessive DRM, and poor quality.

I do remember when EA was small, and took chances.

They are very forumulaic and don't produce as many new IP as they used to.

I'm bugged with EA overuse of licensed music, it makes a lot of there game blend together.

However, EA does produce games for small company, which shouldn't be overlooked.

They're tightly calculated games does help out smaller game companies.

With that, I wouldn't say that EA makes bad games. They have good predicable sales. They do have solid games. If I play an EA game. I know that the graphics are going to be tight, the controls good. And it'll be enjoyable. It won't be a great game. It won't stand out. But its not a bad game. You won't see EA games being reviewed by the angry video game nerd, or the nostalgia critic. 
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Helmaroc on May 20, 2009, 06:09:11 pm
Do your part to stop underage gaming.
Don't buy M rated games for minors.
...
Seriously, you were carded for a T game? That's pretty ridiculous.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Mephisto on May 20, 2009, 06:30:47 pm
I started my Gamestop boycott long ago. It was around the time they stole a few of the games I tried to sell. I was busy, so I didn't notice that half of the stuff I brought in didn't get scanned but was placed in the "sold" pile anyway.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 20, 2009, 08:00:05 pm
I started my Gamestop boycott long ago. It was around the time they stole a few of the games I tried to sell. I was busy, so I didn't notice that half of the stuff I brought in didn't get scanned but was placed in the "sold" pile anyway.

That was probably a bad cashier. It shouldn't be taken as reflection on a whole of the entire company.   
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 10:30:58 pm
It's not success that's bad but the corruption that seems to follow it inevitably.  As soon as people get a taste of success they usually are so afraid to not continue achieving that amount of success that they'll sacrifice anything in order to get it.  Bethesda seems like a prime example of this.  Morrowind was really popular on consoles, so they sacrificed all of their artistic integrity for the next game to make it even more popular on consoles.

Believe it or not, that bothers some people.  It's when being successful isn't a result of your art but the sole purpose of it that it becomes a bad thing.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on May 20, 2009, 10:37:27 pm
It's not success that's bad but the corruption that seems to follow it inevitably.  As soon as people get a taste of success they usually are so afraid to not continue achieving that amount of success that they'll sacrifice anything in order to get it.  Bethesda seems like a prime example of this.  Morrowind was really popular on consoles, so they sacrificed all of their artistic integrity for the next game to make it even more popular on consoles.

Believe it or not, that bothers some people.  It's when being successful isn't a result of your art but the sole purpose of it that it becomes a bad thing.
Its not the fear, they had a taste of the pie. Now they want the whole thing.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 20, 2009, 10:42:58 pm
It's not success that's bad but the corruption that seems to follow it inevitably.  As soon as people get a taste of success they usually are so afraid to not continue achieving that amount of success that they'll sacrifice anything in order to get it.  Bethesda seems like a prime example of this.  Morrowind was really popular on consoles, so they sacrificed all of their artistic integrity for the next game to make it even more popular on consoles.

Believe it or not, that bothers some people.  It's when being successful isn't a result of your art but the sole purpose of it that it becomes a bad thing.
Its not the fear, they had a taste of the pie. Now they want the whole thing.

It's an infinite pie.  Well, maybe they somehow don't realize that, or just don't care.  The point is, the problem isn't success, it's the corruption that comes with it.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 20, 2009, 10:54:58 pm
It's not success that's bad but the corruption that seems to follow it inevitably.  As soon as people get a taste of success they usually are so afraid to not continue achieving that amount of success that they'll sacrifice anything in order to get it.  Bethesda seems like a prime example of this.  Morrowind was really popular on consoles, so they sacrificed all of their artistic integrity for the next game to make it even more popular on consoles.

Believe it or not, that bothers some people.  It's when being successful isn't a result of your art but the sole purpose of it that it becomes a bad thing.

What are oblivion's artistic demerits?

It major change was some portions of its combat engine. Which felt smoother then what morriwinds had.

It more open to modification then morriwind.

It got overall better reviews then morriwind.

It open ended game play was greatly extended.

Some well missed features from first two games made a come back.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 21, 2009, 01:49:19 am
It's not success that's bad but the corruption that seems to follow it inevitably.  As soon as people get a taste of success they usually are so afraid to not continue achieving that amount of success that they'll sacrifice anything in order to get it.  Bethesda seems like a prime example of this.  Morrowind was really popular on consoles, so they sacrificed all of their artistic integrity for the next game to make it even more popular on consoles.

Believe it or not, that bothers some people.  It's when being successful isn't a result of your art but the sole purpose of it that it becomes a bad thing.

What are oblivion's artistic demerits?

It major change was some portions of its combat engine. Which felt smoother then what morriwinds had.

It more open to modification then morriwind.

It got overall better reviews then morriwind.

It open ended game play was greatly extended.

Some well missed features from first two games made a come back.


I don't want to drive this thread completely off topic with another discussion about Oblivion's flaws, so I'll just respond to this post, and if you want to argue against me, please make another thread, or put it in the Fallout 3: Stupidity discussion (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=24032.780) thread that's already off topic on Oblivion.

With Oblivion, Bethesda set out to create a game with as much mass appeal as possible, and sacrificed much of it's artistic credibility to do it.  They completely tossed out any attempts to match the level atmosphere in Morrowind, actually turning the Imperial Province from a land of jungles, rainforests, and marshes, into a generic D&D rip off that I've no doubt was also trying to cash in on the popularity of the LotR movies.  They completely removed flight and flying creatures from the game, greatly reducing the thought required for level design.  They made all the cities isolated from the world, just because the console versions supposedly couldn't handle it... and that was a great excuse to remove flight.  Thanks to the level scaled random enemies everywhere, everywhere now felt the same.  And thanks to that allong with the new genericized Cyrodiil everywhere looked the same.  The new plot was a generic "save the world" drivel, the only real unusual bit was that you weren't the chosen one, but they fixed that by making the chosen one totally useless so you did everything he would have anyway.

The Kind of Worms, the badass Necromancer lord from Daggerfall is now a measly little High Elf you can kill easily.

I was under the impression that Morrowind is far superior when it comes to modding.  The dialogue system in Oblivion is a huge hamper.  Just what about Oblivion is better in this area?  And I'm not sure what you are thinking saying that it's more open ended since about the only difference in that area is that Oblivion has a long mandatory tutorial.  Neither of these two things are really relevant though.

Professional reviews are totally unreliable.  It's a documented fact that mainstream game makers bribe mainstream reviewers with fancy events, or blackmail them with information refusal.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 21, 2009, 07:57:01 am
You won't see EA games being reviewed by the angry video game nerd, or the nostalgia critic. 

The AVGN reviews old games. Before EA was even founded. The Nostalgia critic reviews movies and only ONCE reviewed an OLD game. Of course you wont see them review an EA game. Or any other game from a modern time for that matter.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: qwertyuiopas on May 21, 2009, 09:03:28 am
The only things I can think of that they improved on in making oblivion were script spell effects and alternate world spaces. And they failed to use either to their true extent of possibility.

The physics was a cheat(you can lug around that ultra-heavy sword even when nearly overburdened by "picking it up"), and the only thing morrowind needed in terms of physics was detection of when you pyll an item out from under a stack, and even then all they needed was for the stack to drop until it was no longer floating.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Puck on May 21, 2009, 09:06:17 am
Someday, I wish to be shown why being successful is bad.

I guess that's why:
(http://imjustaguy.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/iq_bell_curve.gif)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 21, 2009, 09:39:17 am
So IQ forms a perfect bell curve? OMG CONSPIRACY!
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Puck on May 21, 2009, 09:50:28 am
I guess it's just that evolution suffers from OCD, probably.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 21, 2009, 09:52:16 am
It is probably the goal of IQ tests that the bell curve is to show.

It isn't the true intelligence it is where they want the percents of the populations to fall within those percents.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Sowelu on May 21, 2009, 01:16:52 pm
It is probably the goal of IQ tests that the bell curve is to show.

It isn't the true intelligence it is where they want the percents of the populations to fall within those percents.

The IQ test is normalized every so often so that the median falls right on 100, yes.  It's most useful as a relative comparator.

Also, the people who designed the test never said that it measured intelligence.  They said it measured IQ.  Of course it's not perfect, it's an enormous contrivance.

Still, it does help illustrate a lot of obvious-but-painful things, like "Almost half of the country has a below-average intelligence!"  And knowing how big that 70-85 range is does help you understand society a lot better.  It's NOT obvious that IQ should form a bell curve--I mean, it makes perfect sense when you see it, but it wouldn't have been surprising if their test had originally showed more of an Erlang distribution, or some other thing with a tail that's different on each side of the peak.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Random832 on May 21, 2009, 01:29:20 pm
The IQ test is normalized every so often so that the median falls right on 100, yes.  It's most useful as a relative comparator.

Is just the median normalized, or are other scores normalized as well to fit a bell curve? (i.e. is it normalized so the 74th percentile falls on 115 as depicted in the graph etc etc, or does that happen naturally)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 21, 2009, 01:33:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on May 21, 2009, 01:34:57 pm
Only on bay12 can a topic go this far astray and no-one will really mind.

This isn't derailment as much as teleportation to mars.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 21, 2009, 01:36:07 pm
Both are healthy for the skin.  Like broclick.


er..


I.Q.!
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Tormy on May 21, 2009, 01:38:58 pm
Someday, I wish to be shown why being successful is bad.

I guess that's why:
(http://imjustaguy.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/iq_bell_curve.gif)


Well to be honest...I don't want to meet with those people, who have less than 70 IQ... :-X
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 21, 2009, 01:44:39 pm
100 I.Q. means you're "normal" and are the majority.  Everything else is just awesome.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on May 21, 2009, 01:53:30 pm
100 I.Q. means you're "normal" and are the majority.  Everything else is just awesome.
Or drooling.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 21, 2009, 02:07:52 pm
Idiots are awesome, they do the funniest stuff "normal" people would never do.  Like staple their hand(s) to a desk.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 21, 2009, 02:49:11 pm
Idiots are awesome, they do the funniest stuff "normal" people would never do.  Like staple their hand(s) to a desk.

"Normal" people have been known to do that stuff too.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Okenido on May 21, 2009, 03:09:57 pm
Also I'm pretty sure the average IQ decreased below 100 some time ago.

Unfortunately I cannot verify it.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 21, 2009, 03:24:31 pm
The average IQ is 90 now.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 21, 2009, 08:10:31 pm
The average IQ has to be 100, that's how it works.
Title: MONKEYS
Post by: MrWiggles on May 21, 2009, 08:17:01 pm
Um, if anything IQ averages are raising on the average of ten years.

And by definition of an IQ test, the average is always 100.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 21, 2009, 08:21:19 pm
Every year there is more history to learn.  Yep.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Okenido on May 21, 2009, 08:30:10 pm
History is ridiculously easy.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Zironic on May 21, 2009, 11:56:40 pm
Read the Constitution.
Amendment 1: freedom of speech.

A video game is considered a representation of a developer's right to speech, and this is interesting, should really only be barred from children if considered obscene.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 22, 2009, 12:17:13 am
Obesinity(sp) laws are sorta flimsy though.

Utah had a law on the books that forbid swearing in front of women and children. It was appealed and the law thrown out.

So I'm not to sure how well, if and when those laws challenge they will hold up.

Don't get me wrong, children shouldn't be playing for Mature rated games. However, its ultimately up the parents.

However this issue is sorta complicated.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 22, 2009, 02:25:02 am
Well the problem with IQ tests is that they are based off of cultural values.

Case and Point: Aristotle's Projected IQ is in the 400s (perhaps higher)

Quote
"Read the Constitution.
Amendment 1: freedom of speech"

The Freedom of speach has several limitations and responsibilities. Honestly I think we are all intelligent, and moral, enough to avoid just saying "Freedom of Speach".

In fact there are several laws specifically set out to protect children from obscenities.

Quote
So I'm not to sure how well, if and when those laws challenge they will hold up

Well what carding people is supposed to mean is that no child can buy an innappropriate videogame without an Adults active permission so that the Adult can become more active in knowing what the child is doing.

UNFORTUNATELY I have a lot of doubts that the parents this is really geared for would really bother Parenting their children anyhow. I am sure the same parents are still buying their children Grand Theft Auto Porno edition and just find this law to be bothersom.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 22, 2009, 05:58:46 am
I know some screwed up parents.  It makes me see the kids then I'm sad.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Tormy on May 22, 2009, 01:26:11 pm
100 I.Q. means you're "normal" and are the majority.  Everything else is just awesome.

Ok, I guess I must have ~100 IQ in that case, because I am not a professor to be honest... ;D
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 22, 2009, 01:29:56 pm
Professors are awesome.  Dey do thet thing were thar is awwesome.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Okenido on May 22, 2009, 02:02:33 pm
Personally I have 110 I.Q.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 22, 2009, 02:23:21 pm
I don't like to label myself so I'm not going to say.


Why did I post this then?  I don't know.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 22, 2009, 02:47:14 pm
Myself, 114 IQ.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: MrWiggles on May 22, 2009, 02:48:09 pm
I don't like to label myself so I'm not going to say.


Why did I post this then?  I don't know.
Fun.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 22, 2009, 02:50:09 pm
IQ 134

Though how accurate this is I have doubts. (Or rather I doubt this is accurate)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 22, 2009, 03:02:38 pm
You know what?  I'm going to take one of these I.Q. tests and see what I get.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 22, 2009, 03:07:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)




Do'h.  I was one point off.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 22, 2009, 03:09:43 pm
The most hillarious part is most of these fake IQ tests have very strict maximums that are sometimes very arbitrary.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Darkone on May 22, 2009, 05:27:21 pm
The last time I took an online IQ test, their Ph.D.s got a handful of the logic questions wrong. Sadly, my friend hadn't been through a logic class, and failed to believe me when I showed him a logical venn-diagram of the problem :P
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on May 22, 2009, 05:49:04 pm
Hey guys, just so you know. All IQ tests taken over the internets is fake.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: inaluct on May 22, 2009, 05:56:04 pm
My IQ is 55.

Beat that, peasants.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Darkone on May 22, 2009, 06:10:24 pm
Heh. Yea, internet IQ tests are hardly standardized, and anything that doesn't justify answers/mistakes is even more unreliable.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 22, 2009, 06:44:31 pm
I gots high score on internet IQ test I must now gloat like its worth someting.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Sowelu on May 22, 2009, 07:05:00 pm
http://www.bash.org/?758032 relevant.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 22, 2009, 07:06:23 pm
Haha.  Same here.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 22, 2009, 07:36:15 pm
http://www.bash.org/?758032 relevant.

Ohh my goodness I laughed so hard.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 23, 2009, 06:36:10 am
My IQ is over 9000!!!!!!
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 23, 2009, 08:22:20 am
http://www.bash.org/?758032 relevant.

You know what's sad? I read that quote 2 years ago.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 23, 2009, 08:52:52 am
Neat.  *starts whistling*
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Deadmeat1471 on May 23, 2009, 09:41:53 am
Ah, I remember being equally annoyed when I was under 18. Damn all those places that required people to be 18+.

I'm 22 and have a mustache, and I haven't shaved in a few days.  They refused to sell me a game that's rated for 13 year olds.

Owned.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Tormy on May 23, 2009, 01:15:07 pm
IQ 134

Though how accurate this is I have doubts. (Or rather I doubt this is accurate)

Whoa, that's quite nice.  ;)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 23, 2009, 01:23:38 pm
Last time I checked that was an A+++.  Or C+.  Or C.  Or Lua.  *shrugs*
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Micro102 on May 24, 2009, 10:01:39 am
IQ tests are useless, ive gotten a 230 on a math one once, they are dumb. its basically based off the amount of right questions and the amount of time it takes to make them.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 24, 2009, 10:06:04 am
Absolutely absolutely!  Now let me look at your shoes!  Nicee Nice.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ampersand on May 24, 2009, 12:20:57 pm
An IQ score is completely irrelevant. Even the guy who invented them said putting a numeric score on them was a bad idea and pointless.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: cowofdoom78963 on May 24, 2009, 12:28:00 pm
An IQ score is completely irrelevant. Even the guy who invented them said putting a numeric score on them was a bad idea and pointless.
Obviously that guy had a pretty low IQ, dident he?
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 24, 2009, 05:23:37 pm
Are you making fun of me?!
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Volfram on May 25, 2009, 02:46:30 pm
The most hillarious part is most of these fake IQ tests have very strict maximums that are sometimes very arbitrary.

Don't I know it.  I pegged one at age 9.

I'm the kind of person who gives intelligence analysts fits.  I generally test very high, I always rock standardized tests(only passed 2nd-semester Chemestry because the final was a Standardized Test), I know a lot about a number of things, but I also am at risk to fail out of my Computer Engineering degree, for which I just finished year 6 out of 4.(This actually makes some sense.  I'm a poster-child for Attention Deficit Disorder.)

Also, normal people are idiots.  I consider an IQ of 100 to indicate clinical retardation.


On the topic of age restrictions, I bought the original Halo game at Best Buy about five years ago, and the checkout lady simply asked my birth date.  At the same time, even with stubble coating my chin, most people assume me to be 19 or 20 years old.

I turned 24 last Thursday.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 26, 2009, 08:10:41 am
Easy way to diagnose idiots:

Tell them half the people in the world have lower than average intelligence. If they respond surprised, they're stupid. If they say "Yeah. People are stupid", they're stupid.

But if they say "Yeah... That's what average means..." then they are smart.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 26, 2009, 12:41:56 pm
Easy way to diagnose idiots:

Tell them half the people in the world have lower than average intelligence. If they respond surprised, they're stupid. If they say "Yeah. People are stupid", they're stupid.

But if they say "Yeah... That's what average means..." then they are smart.

Um, doesn't that just mean that they know what average means?
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Zaranthan on May 26, 2009, 12:45:23 pm
That's more than the average person knows.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 26, 2009, 12:46:54 pm
Also, some people who know what average means still wouldn't get that right off the bat.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 26, 2009, 12:53:29 pm
Quote
But if they say "Yeah... That's what average means..." then they are smart.


Actually less then half have lower than average intelligence so I am wondering who the smart one in this picture is.

However because I don't want to wait until someone gets the punch line (Stomach problems) here is why!

Some people have "Average" intelligence, meaning that it is impossible for both higher and lower to have half. This applies if you use a Razor edge or Intelligence Range. In fact since a lot of people use an intelligence Range I am starting to think all the people in your scenario are stupid.

Well that and you can also include the fact that the population would need to be an even number as well making a true half impossible.

On a side note: As one person said "A Person is smart, people are dumb"
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 26, 2009, 01:13:34 pm
You forgot that they're approximations.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 26, 2009, 01:15:10 pm
You forgot that they're approximations.

That has nothing to do with anything. it only takes one average person to put your statement into question.

Which turns me into a big jerk but probably less then a person who just called two people stupid.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 26, 2009, 01:35:06 pm
What I mean is, there is no such thing as a person with average intelligence since it is impossible to measure it accurately. There's a reason IQ doesn't go into decimals. Remember than one 0.1KM is still 100 meters.

So, THEORETICALLY, half the people on earth are have a lower intelligence than average! This statement tests the data analysis skills of the person. Since this skill is closely tied with intelligence, it is a good rule of thumb.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 26, 2009, 01:36:21 pm
STOP!
Hammertime!
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 26, 2009, 01:48:57 pm
(http://www.carforums.net/images/smilies/more4/grammartime.gif)
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 26, 2009, 01:57:01 pm
On a side note: As one person said "A Person is smart, people are dumb"

That was the Men in Black movie IIRC.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 26, 2009, 02:02:30 pm
Because everybody knows you have to be the best of the best of the best.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 26, 2009, 02:05:30 pm
You guys made me think of Gunnery Sargent Hartman. GG.

So here you go. You win this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bVlgRwXut4

Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 26, 2009, 02:11:12 pm
Quote
there is no such thing as a person with average intelligence since it is impossible to measure it accurately

I also say that there will be two people with the Average intelligence especially since Average is a range.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 26, 2009, 02:17:14 pm
Since when was average a range? An average is an exact point. The range is an estimate.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Neonivek on May 26, 2009, 02:35:24 pm
Since when was average a range? An average is an exact point. The range is an estimate.

Average is often a range since putting it as a point is often well, pointless.

IQ tests are done that way as are Personality tests.
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: qwertyuiopas on May 26, 2009, 04:32:20 pm
What about Dilbert's "40% of all sick days are on mondays and fridays" one?
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 26, 2009, 04:33:47 pm
What about Dilbert's "40% of all sick days are on mondays and fridays" one?


2/5 = 40%
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: qwertyuiopas on May 26, 2009, 04:47:04 pm
Exactly, but it should be a more accurate test than "Tell them half the people in the world have lower than average intelligence".
Title: Re: Boycott Gamestop!
Post by: Yanlin on May 27, 2009, 06:07:37 am
Except that not all jobs have the same workdays. Some people don't actually work on Mondays and Fridays.

A more accurate statement would be "14.2857143~% of all days of the week are Sundays."