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Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: Fieari on January 14, 2008, 06:00:00 pm

Title: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Fieari on January 14, 2008, 06:00:00 pm
A bit more than a year ago, I posted in these forums a long detailed post about how I'd like to see a "Dragon Mode" of the game added, where you play a dragon with goals of getting stronger, requiring gold, which would enable you to sleep on said gold for centuries, growing larger, etc.  My plans for this relied on the fact that while a dragon is strong, a kingdom can raise enough champions to take one down, so there is plenty of risk here still... so the dragon would not so much just go looting the land, but would rather set up political and diplomatic contacts, much in the manner of a mafia big boss.  In this case, a very big boss indeed.

I was thinking that while the "Dragon Mode" part itself might be a ways down the road, Toady is implementing the politics part much much sooner.  With that in mind, I'd like to suggest that Dragons be added to the world civilization political table... each dragon counting as a separate "nation".  Let kings declare wars on dragons, and dragons declare war on kings.  

Let dragons have a religion... preferably worshipping THEMSELVES, and allow the dragon to be a "missionary" for this religion.  Of course, when religious wars come in to play, the dragon's religion would be opposed to more or less every other religion out there.

And then when politics become deeper, the Dragons are already positioned to be involved in intriuge, and if there's one thing D&D has taught me, it's that political intrigue with dragons involved can get FUN!

Here's some specific examples of what I'd like to see, in the form of Toady's "POWERGOALS"


POWERGOAL: A small but wealthy kingdom lays next to a poor but militarily strong kingdom, with but a single mountain pass between them.  One day, a dragon sets up a "toll road" in that pass, demanding a reasonable tribute on trade.  The small kingdom realizes that the dragon is acting as it's best military defense, and dedicates the few forces it has to keeping the dragon safe from the adventurers that the large (and poor) kingdom hires.

POWERGOAL: A dragon saves the life of the Royal Heir, and establishes a secret frendship with the Prince.  When the Prince is crowned king, the friendship becomes open, and the dragon is heralded as the protector of the kingdom, and the royal family in particular, even acting as nanny and tutor to the next generation of the royal line.  After several generations of being accepted as part of the establishment, the dragon usurps the throne and becomes the de facto king of the land without an uprising against him.

POWERGOAL: The kobolds have started to become more organized and threatening as of late, with well made weapons and armor, and come to raid your fortress in dog-riding bands that don't stay to fight, but rather grab what they can and run away.  Seeking their mountain home to reclaim kidnapped children (and gold) you find that they are being led by a dragon, and your army is incinerated.

Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: mutant mell on January 14, 2008, 06:06:00 pm
I like this idea, but I'd like it much more if there were two kinds of dragons:  the current guys that we have sieging our fortresses, and the super dragons you already mentioned.  Make the super dragons much more rare, and make them hate each other.  Also, maybe make 2-3 of the goblin/kobold clans led by a dragon as well, or perhaps instead of.
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Fieari on January 14, 2008, 06:39:00 pm
Hm.  If we were to separate the intelligent ones from the dumb ones, we'd need a different name for one or both.  Options:

Wyverns
Wyrms
Mountain/Plains/Swamp/etc Dragon (or Wyrm)
Dragon Lord (or Wyrm Lord, or whatever)
Noble Salamander
Fire Serpent

Others?

Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Draco18s on January 15, 2008, 01:41:00 am
Maybe something like this?

Notable, the reason I have that section of Monster Manual 5 cut out is because I happen to currently be running a game of Xorvintaal (with, obviously, the rules set to both make sense from a real-world point of view, to encourage fun, and to make sense with the published material).

You have dragons (the megabeasts we see) and then you have the Xorvintaal Dragons, the Dragons of the Great Game.  Which seems to be just about what you've described.

A peek into the world.

Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Fieari on January 15, 2008, 10:38:00 am
Well, it seems we can mod it so a race worships dragons on-site now...
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 15, 2008, 11:45:00 am
Methinks that "dumb" dragons are young dragons. The other kind of dragons are "elder" dragons, centuries old.
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Asehujiko on January 15, 2008, 11:49:00 am
And how exactly will those dragons stay hidden long enough for their particular scheme? They aren't realy the most stealty things with their size.
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Red Jackard on January 15, 2008, 11:56:00 am
I imagine this could play out similar to fortress mode, with the player represented by the dragon and giving orders to its underlings.
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Armok on January 15, 2008, 12:42:00 pm
Seconded.
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Align on January 15, 2008, 04:49:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Asehujiko:
<STRONG>And how exactly will those dragons stay hidden long enough for their particular scheme? They aren't realy the most stealty things with their size.</STRONG>
The world is a big place. If they just hang out in some cave in the middle of a mountain range, noone would find them.
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Fieari on January 15, 2008, 05:00:00 pm
Hiding isn't necessarily required in all cases, such as the "setting up a toll road in the pass" scenario.  In other circumstances though, the dragon could always find some lone hermit or hunter, and use the promise of fabulous wealth to use him as a spokesperson.  Or stay in the mountain somewhere, and utilize a local mountain-dwelling settlement like kobolds or goblins (or even dwarves) to be the dragon's hand in world matters.  

Heck, even a plains or forest settlement could work.  Reveal yourself to one small community, and there should be plenty of small isolated communities out there, and do business through them.

Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Hague on January 15, 2008, 05:07:00 pm
Avid shapeshifters and spellcasters, dragons can probably do whatever they desire.
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Torak on January 15, 2008, 05:45:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Hague:
<STRONG>Avid shapeshifters and spellcasters, dragons can probably do whatever they desire.</STRONG>

Or they could just be thousands-of-years-old vagabonds until something requiring their involvement appears.


Also I could see magicians specializing in one type of magic forming their own communities, fortresses and/or monasteries in order to further the knowledge and progress on their magics.

Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Chaos on January 15, 2008, 06:30:00 pm
I like your mafia boss analogy. Anyway, since something rather similar is planned in the far future for wizards, I can see something like this happening as well. That would be cool.
Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Torak on January 15, 2008, 07:20:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Chaos:
<STRONG>I like your mafia boss analogy. Anyway, since something rather similar is planned in the far future for wizards, I can see something like this happening as well. That would be cool.</STRONG>

I just dont see WIZARDS as being very... socialable, because I can see a wizard with maybe a tower and some golems and minions, but not a group of wizards in a functioning community, mostly because they're evil and like lightning broiled dwarves for dinner. Magicians of a sort, regular joes with magic powers, I can see founding a guild or a village.

Title: Re: Politics + Dragon (or other intellegent megabeast)
Post by: Chaos on January 16, 2008, 05:44:00 am
Point. You have to agree though that such a wizard would hold some political power not unlike the way a dragon might. But that wasn't what we were discussing in the first place so lets leave it at that for now.