Post by: dakarian on September 05, 2009, 11:02:14 pm
So begins another Beginner's Mafia. We will need at least 8 player that haven't played in a mass of mafias already (a few is fine though) and 1 person that will act as IC. If there's many more players, I may consider an additional IC.
sidenote: If you are IC, feel free to play the game like you normally do, but be ready to explain about terms, game theory, and other questions.
I'd also appreciate it if a few others came in as commentators. How I envision it: at the start and end of each day, they sent a PM to me telling their views on the game: how everyone looks, and mistakes, ideas on how they would act during the situation. At the end of the game, the PMs will be posted.
The Rules:
You may NOT PM to anyone except to me or from one mafia member to another. Furthermore, ALL discussion about this game, even indirectly, can only occur in this thread.
All votes must be colored red. To avoid confusion, only use that color when you are voting for someone. You must also Unvote before you vote for another. No Lynch votes are allowed.
Days will last for 48 hours or until everyone is voting. Nights will last 24 hours or until all night roles have been sent to me. The deadline will be posted regularly and I retain the ability to hurry the deadline for inactivity or extend the deadline if enough request it. Note that any deadline that falls on a weekend will be pushed back to the following Monday.
Upon deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, there will be no lynch.
Once dead, you may not speak or PM anyone about the game, living or otherwise. A Dead chat will be made available.
Mafia will be given their own Chat to speak to one another once roles have been sent.
Bolded sentences can be used to catch my attention. Italics used by me is flavor and is just there to be interesting.
Lastly, do NOT quote my PM text and do NOT edit your posts (you can double post if you need to)
You can, of course, ask any questions you may have. Also, if there is enough requests to drop the flavor I'll just play it strait.
Roles: (stolen recklessly from Beginner 1)
Townsperson: The basic town role. Your goal is to help the town lynch all of the mafia players. You win as long as the town wins.
Mafia: The basic antagonist role. You and the other Mafia players work together to kill off the townspeople. During the day, you pretend to be normal townspeople and voting on who is to be lynched. During the night, you get to kill one other player. You win once you have greater then or equal to the number of town aligned players.
Mafia Godfather: Leader of the Mafia. He cannot be detected by the Cop's ability.
Cop: An honest cop, he may choose one player each night to investigate. He will then learn if that player is Mafia or Town.
Doctor: The doctor may choose one player each night to protect from the mafia's night kill.
Players:
1. Major_Sephiroth
2. Twiggie
3. Free Beer
4. Sonearage
5. Eduren
6. Diakron
7.Jetsquirrel
8.Org
Possible ICs
9. Pandarsenic
10. Toonyman
Post by: ToonyMan on September 06, 2009, 01:32:21 am
/in
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 06, 2009, 06:40:04 am
Also, nice avatar Toony.
Post by: Twiggie on September 06, 2009, 08:34:29 am
Post by: Free Beer on September 06, 2009, 08:38:35 am
In as this would be my fourth mafia as well.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 06, 2009, 09:00:22 am
*Strikes dramatic pose and joins*
Post by: dakarian on September 06, 2009, 10:55:45 am
However, they won't be "one town one scum". That gives an edge on town since they can prove one person once the first is confirmed. The roles will be randomly set and the ICs encouraged to play to their full power.
The IC part is sort of a 'separate role'. They should help the folks explain about the various matters and ideas that come in a game. That can include theories (like "why are we voting so randomly? Why is it bad not to post so much? What's WIFMO? Why are you being so threatening? What's WOT?) A good IC can do that separately from their 'game face' no matter their role.
Post by: Sonearage on September 06, 2009, 12:26:20 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 06, 2009, 03:28:18 pm
Also, nice avatar Toony.Toony always has awesome avatars.
I guess I'm in on this.
Post by: Vector on September 06, 2009, 03:53:08 pm
That said, if I still fit I'm in.
Post by: Eduren on September 06, 2009, 03:57:47 pm
Possible ICs
1. Pandarsenic
2. Eduren
I guess I should take it as a compliment, but I really don't think I'm qualified.
Post by: dakarian on September 06, 2009, 04:14:49 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 06, 2009, 11:28:13 pm
Also, I'm curious, was that a mistake or did you actually think I'd make a good IC?
Post by: Diakron on September 07, 2009, 12:02:24 am
Post by: Sonearage on September 07, 2009, 10:58:14 am
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 07, 2009, 11:02:58 am
tho i dont have any freaking experience with mafia games
Post by: Mr.Person on September 07, 2009, 11:11:02 am
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 07, 2009, 11:11:34 am
Post by: dakarian on September 07, 2009, 11:57:39 am
I know you've been in a few mafias so yes, it wasn't a typo.
@ rest
If this is your first time, this will be the best one to join in on. It'll be a basic setup so you can learn the ropes. Right now, if you have ANY questions (Even down to "what's a mafia?" or "What do I do?") feel free to ask now. Once the game starts, you can still ask, but it'll be best to focus the questions to the IC (Inexperienced Challenged, if you were wondering). Even though he'll be a full player, he'll also help get you accustomed to the game.
Also, I'm opting to avoid the odd flavoring. It'll be more typical: mafia want to kill, town trying to stop them.
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 07, 2009, 12:06:31 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 07, 2009, 12:12:42 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 07, 2009, 12:36:25 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 07, 2009, 12:37:03 pm
I'll supply a QuickChat. It'll be a forum that only the two mafia people can access so you can freely chat to each other.
@ Sonearage
We have a sticky about the basics of how the game works, A basic Tutorial (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=39338.0)
Those are the very basic rules.
@ all: Two changes to the rules:
1. There will be no weekend deadlines. If a deadline would fall on a weekend, it'll be pushed to Monday.
2. You may not post the PMs that I send you, nor can you edit your posts.
Post by: Org on September 07, 2009, 12:42:30 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 07, 2009, 12:44:17 pm
That forum was REALLY helpful ;D
Post by: dakarian on September 07, 2009, 12:47:34 pm
Baring some form of strangeness, the game will start Tomorrow at noon, EST.
Post by: Sonearage on September 07, 2009, 01:15:50 pm
I'll be at school :(
Post by: Mr.Person on September 07, 2009, 01:17:40 pm
ahh, can't do noon,
I'll be at school :(
The "day" of a mafia game will usually last 3 or 4 real life days. Don't worry about it so much.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 07, 2009, 01:36:17 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 07, 2009, 03:34:58 pm
That makes 9 regular players. More players are always merrier. I'd like another IC, however, to help things along.
Baring some form of strangeness, the game will start Tomorrow at noon, EST.
If there is no other IC's that want in, I'll take the position, I've been in atleast 8 mafia games and won about half of them.
Post by: dakarian on September 07, 2009, 04:49:24 pm
In fact, might as well tell the general idea on how Day 1 goes:
Monday Noon I'll declare the game to begin. After that, as people log in, they post here and talk to one another. The goal of the discussions are to determine who is part of the mafia and who isn't. Of course, if you are part of the mafia, your goal is to look like you aren't.
While you can discuss what you want, there's an overall rhythm in how a game starts. Note none of this is required, but it just tends to work out this way:
The game starts and, of course, no one knows anything. As such, many will start just voting for one another, without any big reasons ("Vote Toonyman: OMG crazy avatar!"). Don't be shocked when someone votes for you then, the goal is to get people talking and involved. Go ahead and join in while reading everyone else's posts.
Eventually, people will say something that makes you worried. Maybe the comment sounded 'wrong' or you just don't like them. Confront them. Ask them why they did what they did. Ask them how they feel about a situation. Tell them "I don't like what you did". Pressure them, like a detective. You are looking for actions that look like they are a bad guy (referred to as acting 'scummy'. Another word for a mafia person is 'Scum').
People will accuse you. You will accuse others. Votes will fly. I'll come in and give reports on who is voting for who and when the Day will end. Don't feel bad if many people attack you: everyone is fighting for their lives and in a panic. Explain your actions. Answer their questions. Try to show them that you are honest (even if you aren't ;) ). Eventually, the deadline passes and I'll end the Day. Whoever has the most votes is lynched and removed from the game. Usually, it's a townperson. It MIGHT be you. Don't feel bad and remember: so long as your side wins YOU win, even if you are dead.
So the Day ends, I'll declare it to be Night and lock the thread. Townspeople will just sit there and wait for it to end (and hope they don't die) special people have been given instructions on what they will do.
Thus it leads to Day 2 and further days, which will bring more accusations, more attacks, and more lynchings. We continue until either all of the mafia are dead or the mafia numbers equal the town (i.e. 2 mafia+2 town).
That's the basic rhythm of the game. Things may change and alter as the game goes on though. As far as theories on how to find mafia or the terminology that comes out (and there's lots of it as you'll see) feel free to ask the IC about it. The ICs won't go light on you, but at least they'll explain WHY they do what they do.
Post by: dakarian on September 07, 2009, 04:53:13 pm
Oh yah, for a good example of the game, go to the Mafia forum and check out "Beginner Mafia" to see how the first one went. This one has the same setup
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 07, 2009, 04:57:06 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 07, 2009, 06:29:31 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 07, 2009, 06:33:06 pm
What could you add? His own personal bio?!
Post by: dakarian on September 07, 2009, 06:49:43 pm
You wake one day ragged but bold. Last night, you and for neighbors have decided enough is enough. The mafia robs your shops, threatens your leaders and, last night, threw firebombs in the police department and medical facilities, all because they believe they can.
Well, that's the final straw. You and your fellows organized themselves and created the Townspeople for Freedom. Yesterday, you grabbed the spokesmen for the Mafia and hung him in front of the town square!
As you left your home, however, you found a message attached to you door. "We are among you. The next time we come here, you will die."
As a Townsperson, you know what you must do. You must find out which of your fellows is a traitor. With your vote and mind, you must send the Mafia to the noose, or die in the night. Alive or dead, you will be free should all threats to your people are eliminated.
NEVER test the Mod
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 08, 2009, 12:05:12 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 08, 2009, 01:29:03 am
Post by: dakarian on September 08, 2009, 04:35:39 am
While that would be awesome, it would just be wasted time.
You ARE new ;D
While I WILL reserve the right to type "Litia, Psycotic Vigilante, is lynched", my writing style doesn't exactly make it easy for me to write small. That 'how the game works' explanation was twice as long at one point: I had to chop it down to avoid killing the game with Wall of Text before the game begins. I was thinking of writing eduren "oh, I'll try to keep it simple but no promises" until Toony gave me that ultimatum.
So no promises, but at least I'll get some time to mess with everything before the deadline.
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 08, 2009, 05:35:29 am
He/She is escorted to the gallows, and is hung. The townsfolk also ravage her home, looking for clues to what his/her purpose was. They find a gun, and a note from a psychiatrist. It would seem he/she was the Psycotic Vigiliante, Town.
Verbose enough?
Post by: dakarian on September 08, 2009, 05:54:53 am
Btw, Litia is female *points to the cat Avatar*.
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 08, 2009, 05:57:04 am
Post by: dakarian on September 08, 2009, 06:21:21 am
To other cats and dogs, though, she's at best mildly annoyed at them and, at worst, willing to slice them if they dare get close. She'll also walk up to them and strike as well. She's made to be a solo cat. Doesn't sit well when there's 3 cats and a dog though :P.
Btw. Role PMs have been written, but who gets what role isn't firmly set. In about two hours I'll send them. That means if you havn't signed up, you have until about 9am EST to do so. Otherwise, we'll be set to go.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 08, 2009, 06:51:26 am
Post by: dakarian on September 08, 2009, 08:13:15 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 08, 2009, 08:21:45 am
Org, why are you never helpful to the town?
Post by: Twiggie on September 08, 2009, 08:25:41 am
and sonearage was underneath him in the list.
Post by: dakarian on September 08, 2009, 08:27:05 am
Fine fine.. I can start early. It'll mean you get more time to argue anyway.
Post by: dakarian on September 08, 2009, 08:29:08 am
A few nights ago, the local police station exploded. The following night, the major hospital joined it. We may have many who worked in both services still around but they are in hiding and most left the town. This was the last straw for the people. Yesterday, Dakarian was pulled from his home and, without trial or judge, was hanged near the town square. The group responsible called themselves the Townspeople for Freedom.
Now, the group meets again, yet with almost all of their members missing. Everyone speaks about a note attached to their door with the words, “"We are among you. The next time we come here, you will die." Only a few brave members return. It is clear that the Mafia infiltrated this group somehow. Knowledge of the group suggests that there may be two of them. One of you offer a desperate solution: find out the spies and hang them! Although crazy, the alternative is to wait and die.
So begins the first day of this horrible scene. The decision of who to lynch will be decided by vote.
The day will end on Wednesday, 10th Noon EST.
Whoever has the most votes then will be lynched. Good luck.
Post by: Twiggie on September 08, 2009, 08:32:56 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 08, 2009, 09:11:17 am
I should be sleeping, but instead I'll randomly vote for Org.
Org, why are you never helpful to the town?
While I could keep it just to my random vote, I'll add this: Org, as scum, who would you desire to have as a partner?
Post by: Free Beer on September 08, 2009, 10:15:08 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 08, 2009, 10:19:39 am
Post by: Free Beer on September 08, 2009, 10:25:30 am
I'm not a girl. What the fuck is up with you and Servant Corps?
I stand corrected. I'm instead going to vote for Pandarsenic, for being a male maternal figure.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 08, 2009, 10:54:43 am
I'm not a girl. What the fuck is up with you and Servant Corps?
I stand corrected. I'm instead going to vote for Pandarsenic, for being a male maternal figure.
*Gives you a back rub*
Post by: ToonyMan on September 08, 2009, 01:30:00 pm
NOTE:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sonearage on September 08, 2009, 02:16:07 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 08, 2009, 02:31:54 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 08, 2009, 02:33:45 pm
I vote for Free beer because he is above me on the list
I see you were the first person to put a second vote on someone.
ToonyMan, who would be your most and least favored choices for a Scum partner and why (since Org isn't here)?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 08, 2009, 02:42:22 pm
Toonyman, if you were the cop, who would you investigate tonight?
Free Beer or Sonearage.
I vote for Free beer because he is above me on the list
I see you were the first person to put a second vote on someone.
ToonyMan, who would be your most and least favored choices for a Scum partner and why (since Org isn't here)?
MY LEAST WOULD BE OR-*ahem* My least favored would be Twiggie and my most favored would be Pandarsenic or Free Beer.
Post by: Org on September 08, 2009, 03:29:44 pm
I would have someone new as my scum partner if I were scum, since they could make some mistakes and people would take it as inexperience. Least fav:Toony
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 08, 2009, 04:03:05 pm
The lack of scumhunting is not acceptable. Org, where's your random vote?
Sonearage, same question for you.
Also, none of you explained why.
Also, Toony: I'm flattered. :P
Post by: Org on September 08, 2009, 04:06:22 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 08, 2009, 04:08:05 pm
Post by: Twiggie on September 08, 2009, 04:11:59 pm
You rang?
Warcraft II reference! clearly!
ima keep my vote on sonearage 'til he speaks
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 08, 2009, 04:16:53 pm
Has Jetsquirrel posted yet?
Post by: Twiggie on September 08, 2009, 04:19:11 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 08, 2009, 05:53:20 pm
Post by: Free Beer on September 08, 2009, 07:52:44 pm
Free Beer is deceiving and manipulative. I will never trust him again.
That kind of implies that you trusted me in the first place, ToonyMan.
Post by: Org on September 08, 2009, 07:53:43 pm
hey guys just got home but have to go already :( will vote Org for Random voting without a stupid reasonRandom voting needs no reason...
Post by: ToonyMan on September 08, 2009, 07:53:55 pm
Unvote, vote major_sephiroth. Why don't you want to get randomly voted?Free Beer is deceiving and manipulative. I will never trust him again.
That kind of implies that you trusted me in the first place, ToonyMan.
DON'T TWIST MY WORDS SCUM.
Post by: Free Beer on September 08, 2009, 07:56:16 pm
Unvote, vote major_sephiroth. Why don't you want to get randomly voted?Free Beer is deceiving and manipulative. I will never trust him again.
That kind of implies that you trusted me in the first place, ToonyMan.
DON'T TWIST MY WORDS SCUM.
Who's twisting? Your use of the word "again" clearly implies that you at one time trusted me in the past. FoS ToonyMan for overreacting.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 08, 2009, 07:58:17 pm
Unvote, vote major_sephiroth. Why don't you want to get randomly voted?Free Beer is deceiving and manipulative. I will never trust him again.
That kind of implies that you trusted me in the first place, ToonyMan.
DON'T TWIST MY WORDS SCUM.
Who's twisting? Your use of the word "again" clearly implies that you at one time trusted me in the past. FoS ToonyMan for overreacting.
I'M OVER-REACTING SARCASTICALLY AT MY BITTERNESS FOR BEING DEFEATED BY YOU IN THE PAST.
Post by: Eduren on September 08, 2009, 08:01:31 pm
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 09, 2009, 12:04:49 am
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 09, 2009, 12:17:55 am
and sry for the vote its a bit late by my hamster died yesterday
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 09, 2009, 12:22:20 am
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 12:26:19 am
Post by: Free Beer on September 09, 2009, 12:29:28 am
I don't like getting voted for no reason, so I avoided that. Sure I'm hypocritical because I voted the other guy, but there is some reasoning behind that!
So why don't you like getting voted for no reason? Is it because you're scum and you don't want to get lynched by accident?
Post by: dakarian on September 09, 2009, 12:42:51 am
Vote count:
Major_Sephiroth[1]: Free Beer
Free Beer[2]: Toonyman, Sonearage
Sonearage[1]: Pandarsenic
Eduren[1]: Org
JetSquirel[1]: Major Sephiroth
Pandarsenic[1]: JetSquirrel
Org[1]: Diakron
Note 1: Remember to unvote before you vote, otherwise your vote change won't happen.
Note 2: We started Tuesday and I had set the deadline to Wednesday. BLAH.
Official Deadline: Thursday 10th, Noon EST
And yes, my vote is for the deadline, because it's Obvscum.
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 12:51:49 am
hey guys just got home but have to go already :( will vote Org for Random voting without a stupid reasonRandom voting needs no reason...
:o
Unvote but it flies in the face of tradition
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 12:52:14 am
A question to you. What is your strategy for winning this game?
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 01:02:37 am
Good thing I have no votes on me because I'm Pandarsenic and not Pandersenic.
Vote count:
Major_Sephiroth[1]: Free Beer
Free Beer[2]: Toonyman, Sonearage
Sonearage[1]: Pandarsenic
Eduren[1]: Org
JetSquirel[1]: Major Sephiroth
Pandarsenic[1]: JetSquirrel
Org[1]: Diakron
YA... umm no. Seems like spelling errors wont save you from voting :P
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 09, 2009, 01:22:34 am
JetSquirel, we've all made like 3 posts at the very most. How can you possibly have a hunch about who's scum? You don't even know my name. -.-
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 09, 2009, 01:29:12 am
Free Beer, you are just mad I called your bluff in vote mafia.
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 01:37:05 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 09, 2009, 02:33:50 am
Don't mind me, I'm just posting so I can keep this in my "Show replies" list.
*takes seat*
Post by: ToonyMan on September 09, 2009, 06:04:56 am
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 09, 2009, 08:37:06 am
but anyway
Unvote Pandarsenic
And vote for Free beer
My Instinct just tells me that he is scum
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 10:27:53 am
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 10:45:11 am
Sonearage do you want to do anything other than random voting Free Beer?
A question to you. What is your strategy for winning this game?
1st question, Yes I do want to do something else, I want to unvote Free Beer and vote eduren ;D
2nd Question, Ummm... not a clue, since I am not sure exactly on HOW you actually win ???
Post by: Twiggie on September 09, 2009, 10:51:43 am
you win by lynching all the mafia members by voting for them if you're town, or if you're mafia you have to outnumber the townsfolk by killing them and making them vote for each other.
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 11:19:15 am
If you are a townsperson, you want to kill the mafia, even at the expense on you own skin.
If you are mafia, you want to survive to the end of the game.
Post by: dakarian on September 09, 2009, 11:44:29 am
Vote Count:
Major_Sephiroth[1]: Free Beer
Free Beer[1]: Toonyman
Sonearage[2]: Pandarsenic, Eduren
Eduren[2]: Org, Sonearage
Note 1: To the novices that are confused, this is that 'random voting' I talked about. At around this point, you'll want to try to look at what others are doing and seeing if something seems suspicious.
HOW to find someone suspicious? The mafia has a different goal from the townspeople.
Mafia doesn't really care about this day voting thing: they can kill at night. They know who's guilty anyway. The townspeople (must) care since if you don't lynch the mafia you'll lose. Also, there's only two mafia folks so they can't let themselves die. Townspeople don't like to die but there's lots of you and you still win if the town wins even after death.
That's the basis of all suspicion. Who among you REALLY wants to find the mafia and who just wants to live to enjoy the night? Who's honestly paranoid and who's just acting?
Remember, The town wishes to vote on scummy people. The mafia wishes anyone BUT them get voted down.
Deadline: Thursday, 10th Noon EST
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 11:58:55 am
Sonearage do you want to do anything other than random voting Free Beer?
A question to you. What is your strategy for winning this game?
1st question, Yes I do want to do something else, I want to unvote Free Beer and vote eduren ;D
2nd Question, Ummm... not a clue, since I am not sure exactly on HOW you actually win ???
Eduren why do you insist on voting Stonerage? He has posted a new action and is a newb. A small FoS at Stonerage for the OMGUS.
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 12:09:54 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 12:14:37 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 12:20:32 pm
Sonearage do you want to do anything other than random voting Free Beer?
A question to you. What is your strategy for winning this game?
1st question, Yes I do want to do something else, I want to unvote Free Beer and vote eduren ;D
2nd Question, Ummm... not a clue, since I am not sure exactly on HOW you actually win ???
Eduren why do you insist on voting Stonerage? He has posted a new action and is a newb. A small FoS at Stonerage for the OMGUS.
For the same reason that you are FoSing him. Why would you vote for me when I have the same suspicions as you? Unless you are scum that wants to find an easy target? Maybe you want to get rid of someone like me with 2 votes already on their head?
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 12:23:01 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 12:26:10 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 12:28:06 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 12:31:41 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 12:35:53 pm
Post by: Twiggie on September 09, 2009, 12:37:42 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 12:46:14 pm
*sign* does anyone beside me make simple mistakes or is this just me??Hehe. Read Beginners Mafia 1, especially day 1.
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 12:59:14 pm
Unvote eduren and vote for, hmmmm... Diakron for suspiciously unvoting really quickly
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 09, 2009, 01:00:02 pm
I might've joined this if I had gotten to the thread quick enough, but I missed it. So I'll just watch all of you viciously attack each other instead. Should make some good entertainment.
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 01:02:31 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 01:03:19 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 01:11:07 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 01:13:45 pm
I unvoted because i did not have enough suspicion to lynch Eduren, so when he mentioned he had 2 votes already, i unvoted even though he did not really answer my question.
Fake-edit: Why the over reaction?
Jim Groovester, for being tardy to the party.
What???
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 01:17:35 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is that better??? ;D
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 01:24:40 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 01:27:57 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 01:40:17 pm
Sonearage editing your post is a BIG no-no, use an EbWoP (E)dit (b)y (W)at (o)f (P)ost and post a second message without changing your first to hide anything you said.
Post by: dakarian on September 09, 2009, 01:57:26 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 02:44:20 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 02:47:34 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 02:51:12 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 02:57:01 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 09, 2009, 03:03:56 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 03:04:41 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 09, 2009, 04:23:54 pm
Vote Jetsquirrel for bandwagoning constantly.
Post by: Free Beer on September 09, 2009, 07:10:40 pm
Squirrel has posted, so Unvote.
Free Beer, you are just mad I called your bluff in vote mafia.
Congratulations, you just dodged a pointed question about your motives. You have just done something extremely suspicious.
Perhaps I should try a different approach. If Train A leaves Atlantic City headed for Washington D.C at 2:00pm and travels at 120 mph, and Train B leaves New York headed for Washington D.C. at 2:30pm and travels at 150 mph, who are the other scum?
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 09, 2009, 09:58:01 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 10:08:44 pm
Vote Diakron for his hyperactive vote switching; it seems like he doesn't care whom he lynches (except his partner?)
??? I have voted what 2 people? and unvoted one because i had not realized they had 2 votes on them. Beside voting wildly is a good way to get reactions from people.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 09, 2009, 10:12:47 pm
Vote Diakron for his hyperactive vote switching; it seems like he doesn't care whom he lynches (except his partner?)
??? I have voted what 2 people? and unvoted one because i had not realized they had 2 votes on them. Beside voting wildly is a good way to get reactions from people.
That's what Pandarsenic is doing right now. :-D
If you're a good Mafia player you can react very Town like.
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 10:13:24 pm
Vote Diakron for his hyperactive vote switching; it seems like he doesn't care whom he lynches (except his partner?)
??? I have voted what 2 people? and unvoted one because i had not realized they had 2 votes on them. Beside voting wildly is a good way to get reactions from people.
The only reason you unvoted me was because you wanted to avoid suspicion??? Thats pretty scummy.
Also, by now we have our reactions, you should instead focus on what those reactions tell you about people. And you have yet to draw any strong conclusions or commit to suspecting somebody.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 09, 2009, 10:14:22 pm
...
Actually, knowing how you've played before, I can actually sort of believe that. Feh, I suppose I'll unvote for now. We'll see later.
Free Beer, if there is a triangle defined by points A, B, and C, with Angle A being 49 degrees, line AB having a length of 16 units, and line AC having a length of 41 units, who would you kill tonight if you were the scum?
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 09, 2009, 10:15:13 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 10:16:06 pm
Vote Diakron for his hyperactive vote switching; it seems like he doesn't care whom he lynches (except his partner?)
??? I have voted what 2 people? and unvoted one because i had not realized they had 2 votes on them. Beside voting wildly is a good way to get reactions from people.
The only reason you unvoted me was because you wanted to avoid suspicion??? Thats pretty scummy.
Also, by now we have our reactions, you should instead focus on what those reactions tell you about people. And you have yet to draw any strong conclusions or commit to suspecting somebody.
No this is the third time for me to explain:
I voted you to get you to speak up on a subject, you did so and said you had 2 votes on you already. I checked it out and it was true so I unvoted. Anymore questions?
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 10:20:32 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 09, 2009, 10:23:50 pm
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 10:25:14 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 10:30:37 pm
Yes, who is your partner?
Eduren
WHO DOES NUMBER 2 WORK FOR?
Me
Post by: ToonyMan on September 09, 2009, 10:31:22 pm
Yes, who is your partner?
EdurenWHO DOES NUMBER 2 WORK FOR?
Me
What.
...
OK.
Post by: Diakron on September 09, 2009, 10:33:41 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 09, 2009, 10:35:46 pm
it was a (apperantly very weak) attempt at humor
Yeah I saw that. XD
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 09, 2009, 10:48:10 pm
Post by: Free Beer on September 09, 2009, 10:49:15 pm
"Didn't realize it." Of course.
...
Actually, knowing how you've played before, I can actually sort of believe that. Feh, I suppose I'll unvote for now. We'll see later.
Free Beer, if there is a triangle defined by points A, B, and C, with Angle A being 49 degrees, line AB having a length of 16 units, and line AC having a length of 41 units, who would you kill tonight if you were the scum?
If I were scum, and it exists in the geometry in which the problem is formulated, I'd murder the hypotenuse (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MurderTheHypotenuse).
Post by: Eduren on September 09, 2009, 10:59:56 pm
If I were scum, and it exists in the geometry in which the problem is formulated, I'd murder the hypotenuse (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MurderTheHypotenuse).
And once again, my night is taken by TVTropes. *Sigh*.
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 09, 2009, 11:20:44 pm
Post by: Free Beer on September 09, 2009, 11:42:15 pm
Oh, and before anyone calls me on it, while the TVTropes article talks about love triangles, the concept also works for scum triangles: If people suspect an A/B scum pairing and a B/C scum pairing, but the scum pairing is actually A/C, killing B will lower the suspicion on both A and C, thereby increasing their survivability. For an example of this at work, refer to Beginner's Mafia 1: At one point pretty much everyone thought it was Vector(mafia)/Jim Groovester(town), but after Jim Groovester died nobody really suspected Vector(then Kashyyk) again.
...
Of course, now that I've mentioned it, it won't work. And I'll be looking out for it specifically. So don't try it.
That is not a right angled triangle.
In Euclidean geometry, no it isn't. That's why I said "and it exists in the geometry in which the problem is formulated."
Major, you dodged my question again. Did I mention how suspicious it is when you're acting all evasive like that? I think you should roleclaim.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 10, 2009, 12:15:07 am
Also, rolefishing = scumtell.
Post by: Free Beer on September 10, 2009, 12:21:50 am
Free Beer, please answer my question with a name.
Also, rolefishing = scumtell.
Using only the information available at hand, if I were scum, my first priority would be major_sephiroth, followed by ToonyMan. major_sephiroth, because his evasive behavior completely gives him away as either scum or a power role. ToonyMan, because nobody takes him seriously and as a consequence I feel he is unlikely to get lynched.
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 10, 2009, 12:30:58 am
Gimme a new question.
Post by: Free Beer on September 10, 2009, 12:33:33 am
I don't know who the scum are, or I'd be a bit more serious about this whole matter!
Gimme a new question.
Very well. "What is your role?"
Post by: dakarian on September 10, 2009, 12:39:11 am
Current Vote:
Major Sephiroth[1]: Free Beer
Free Beer[1]:Pandarsenic
Sonearage[1]:Eduren
Eduren[1]:Org
Diakron[1]:Sonearage
JetSquirel[1]:Toonyman
Note 1: Again, if you don't unvote, your vote stays where it was.
Note 2: Didn't mention it but if this game No Lynches in case of a tie.
Deadline: Thursday, 10th Noon EST
Day ends in 7 hours unless I get calls to extend.
Post by: Free Beer on September 10, 2009, 12:41:10 am
Current Vote:
Major Sephiroth[1]: Free Beer
Free Beer[1]:Pandarsenic
Sonearage[1]:Eduren
Eduren[1]:Org
Diakron[1]:Sonearage
JetSquirel[1]:Toonyman
Note 1: Again, if you don't unvote, your vote stays where it was.
Note 2: Didn't mention it but if this game No Lynches in case of a tie.
Deadline: Thursday, 10th Noon EST
Day ends in 7 hours unless I get calls to extend.
I'm about to go to bed and wake up in eight hours. Vote Day Extension.
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 10, 2009, 01:12:48 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 10, 2009, 01:44:53 am
The scum wants you to rely on power roles. Power roles can be identified and killed.
Your best weapon isn't a cop or a doctor or a roleblocker, it's a good scumhunter.
Vote for Day Extension
I stand by my vote on Free Beer for trying to draw out Town Power Roles.
Post by: Eduren on September 10, 2009, 08:01:08 am
Post by: dakarian on September 10, 2009, 08:43:10 am
As Free Beer is about to leave he makes a proposal, "I know we agreed to ending this meeting at the bell," a nearby church's bell always chimes at sunset "yet I think we can put aside tradition at least once for this matter."
Several others agree. Is it because they wish to be sure of their choice, or is it to delay the act of murder for a few more hours?
Official Deadline: Friday, 11th, Noon EST
Further extensions will be considered only if it seems that the debate is close, but not quite, at a conclusion.
Post by: Sonearage on September 10, 2009, 11:11:05 am
Post by: Free Beer on September 10, 2009, 11:17:05 am
It isn't powerful. I'm not telling you what it is, but rest assured my role isn't powerful.
Well, we've pretty much established that you aren't a Townsperson. Therefore, you just roleclaimed as a Mafia Goon. Since there are no Jesters or Warlocks or whatever in this game, I do believe that means you should be lynched, yes?
Post by: Sonearage on September 10, 2009, 11:20:04 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 10, 2009, 11:25:18 am
Post by: Free Beer on September 10, 2009, 11:37:27 am
Awfully excited about lynching him, aren't you, Free Beer? Trying to eliminate a potential townie power role or even just a townie?
No, I'm excited about having found scum for the first time. My reasoning is flawless. major_sephiroth is lying (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lynch_All_Liars), or he is a Mafia Goon.
how do you work that out?
Let's say I asked you a question, like "Why do you talk like a ten year old girl on this forum and mention your family? Didn't they tell you not to do that sort of thing?" Would you answer it, or would you be like major_sephiroth and make excuses to not answer it?
major_sephiroth is trying to hide, and it is only making him stick out more. This is not the sort of behavior that is to be expected from townspeople.
Post by: Sonearage on September 10, 2009, 11:47:12 am
Oh and my brother doesn't mind as long as I don't say he his Username (he doesn't want everyone to know I'm related to him)
other than that my family don't care what I put!
Post by: Sonearage on September 10, 2009, 11:49:12 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 10, 2009, 11:49:54 am
Post by: Sonearage on September 10, 2009, 11:53:24 am
Post by: Twiggie on September 10, 2009, 11:55:47 am
Awfully excited about lynching him, aren't you, Free Beer? Trying to eliminate a potential townie power role or even just a townie?
No, I'm excited about having found scum for the first time. My reasoning is flawless. major_sephiroth is lying (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lynch_All_Liars), or he is a Mafia Goon.how do you work that out?
Let's say I asked you a question, like "Why do you talk like a ten year old girl on this forum and mention your family? Didn't they tell you not to do that sort of thing?" Would you answer it, or would you be like major_sephiroth and make excuses to not answer it?
major_sephiroth is trying to hide, and it is only making him stick out more. This is not the sort of behavior that is to be expected from townspeople.
at the risk of being accused of mafia-ness if im wrong, im gonna have to defend major_sephiroth here.
firstly, i dont see that your reasoning is flawless. you refuse to accept the possibility of the fallacy of your premises, particularly that as he is being evasive then he is anti-town. i remember getting into a flap about random voting before, but its not a definitive sign of mafia-ness...
additionally, i am going to vote Free Beer for being overly aggressive. you voted for sephiroth several pages ago, and have been gunning for him ever since, jumping on any excuse to lynch him, and refusing the possibility of you being wrong.
and what are you accusing him of lying about? his role not being powerful? um... well... id kinda want to avert the eyes of the mafia from me too...
sure, maybe he is trying to hide, but that doesnt make him mafia - he could be a doctor or a cop.
if im wrong, we can always lynch him when the mafia dont kill him tonight
commence the jumping-on-me for defending somebody!
Post by: dakarian on September 10, 2009, 11:59:18 am
Current Vote:
Major Sephiroth[1]: Free Beer
Free Beer[2]:Pandarsenic, Twiggie
Sonearage[1]:Eduren
Eduren[1]:Org
Diakron[1]:Sonearage
JetSquirel[1]:Toonyman
Deadline: Thursday, 10th Noon EST
11 hours left till the end of the day.
Post by: Twiggie on September 10, 2009, 12:00:18 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 10, 2009, 12:01:17 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 10, 2009, 12:06:30 pm
We have a world of WIFOM ahead of us.
Also, many experienced players consider LyLo to be a flawed policy, with that article obviously only having been touched by its supporters. While that applies more to games with roles that retaliate on death or when targeted, it still remains the case that major_sephiroth may be a townie trying to bait the mafia or a cop/doctor failing massively at being inconspicuous.
Or m_s could be a Goon and Free Beer could be a townie who's right. Or they could both be scum, forcing a day 1 bus to try to clear whichever of them survives.
m_s, I won't blame you for the OMGUS vote on Free Beer, just for reference.
Post by: Free Beer on September 10, 2009, 12:11:27 pm
firstly, i dont see that your reasoning is flawless. you refuse to accept the possibility of the fallacy of your premises, particularly that as he is being evasive then he is anti-town. i remember getting into a flap about random voting before, but its not a definitive sign of mafia-ness...
additionally, i am going to vote Free Beer for being overly aggressive. you voted for sephiroth several pages ago, and have been gunning for him ever since, jumping on any excuse to lynch him, and refusing the possibility of you being wrong.
You will note that nobody actually made any attempt to argue that I was in fact wrong. Prior to your post, the only person who even suggested it was Pandarsenic, and his only reason is the patently ridiculous theory that I'm rolefishing mafia.
and what are you accusing him of lying about? his role not being powerful? um... well... id kinda want to avert the eyes of the mafia from me too...
sure, maybe he is trying to hide, but that doesnt make him mafia - he could be a doctor or a cop.
If he were the Doctor or the Cop, then I blew his cover a long time ago. There is no point in him trying to hide it now. And yet, hiding is precisely what he is doing.
if im wrong, we can always lynch him when the mafia dont kill him tonight
No. We should lynch him today for being obviously scum.
Post by: Sonearage on September 10, 2009, 12:27:12 pm
Post by: Twiggie on September 10, 2009, 01:14:51 pm
You will note that nobody actually made any attempt to argue that I was in fact wrong. Prior to your post, the only person who even suggested it was Pandarsenic, and his only reason is the patently ridiculous theory that I'm rolefishing mafia.
No, I'm excited about having found scum for the first time. My reasoning is flawless.
you refuse to accept or acknowledge your possible fallacy - even though it is clearly very possible that you are wrong. this suggests to me that you don't actually think he might be mafia, but are actually trying to influence the town to knock off one of their own.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 10, 2009, 03:04:43 pm
I'm at least as suspicious of you as I am of him, mainly since your only grounds for accusing him is about as likely to hit useful town roles.
Post by: Diakron on September 10, 2009, 04:10:40 pm
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 10, 2009, 04:52:25 pm
I now have solid bets on Free Beer being mafia, because he is a little too trigger happy. He also seems to have a vendetta against me. Free Beer, if it is any consolation, I am likely going to be lynched in Vote Mafia because I thought you were remorseful.
Sonerage, don't bandwagon. I am now suspicious of you as well.
Screw OMGUS, vote Free Beer.
Post by: Free Beer on September 10, 2009, 07:31:43 pm
And I thought being aggressive was bad. I am a regular townie. That is what I mean by not powerful. If I was mafia I would have alluded to having some sort of power, so a townie would hesitate to lynch me. Free Beer, you are just going over the top. If I was the cop, I would have alluded to it to let the doctor (if there is one) know. If I was the doc I would have hid it too.
I now have solid bets on Free Beer being mafia, because he is a little too trigger happy. He also seems to have a vendetta against me. Free Beer, if it is any consolation, I am likely going to be lynched in Vote Mafia because I thought you were remorseful.
Sonerage, don't bandwagon. I am now suspicious of you as well.
Screw OMGUS, vote Free Beer.
Oh, so I'm the one that's trigger happy, when it was you who didn't want to be random voted and ignored any inquiries? Yeah, right. I will refrain from talking about Vote Mafia, since it's an ongoing game.
You claim to be a regular townsperson, and yet you have not provided any sort of account for your suspicious behavior. Furthermore, you provide us with this gem:
Sonerage, don't bandwagon. I am now suspicious of you as well.
This is an obvious attempt to intimidate Sonearage into unvoting. You'll notice I tried to pull similar tricks in Vote Mafia 3, when I was scum. I classify your response as an overreaction. Yeah, you're scum. I'm certain. Your latest post is nothing but an attempt to salvage the situation.
Post by: Free Beer on September 10, 2009, 07:43:39 pm
Vote Free Beer. he does not have any reason to be leading a lynch right now other then the fact that some one doesn't want to reveal their role.
Diakron, my reason for attacking major_sephiroth is that he acted scummy by going out of his way to avoid answering questions. You will note that my inquiry into his role occurred AFTER I FoS'd him twice.
Free Beer, do you even care if we lynch a townie?
I'm at least as suspicious of you as I am of him, mainly since your only grounds for accusing him is about as likely to hit useful town roles.
Do you even care about lynching scum, Pandarsenic? Furthermore, now that major_sephiroth has roleclaimed as a townsperson, the defense you presented on his behalf is now void.
You will note that nobody actually made any attempt to argue that I was in fact wrong. Prior to your post, the only person who even suggested it was Pandarsenic, and his only reason is the patently ridiculous theory that I'm rolefishing mafia.No, I'm excited about having found scum for the first time. My reasoning is flawless.
you refuse to accept or acknowledge your possible fallacy - even though it is clearly very possible that you are wrong. this suggests to me that you don't actually think he might be mafia, but are actually trying to influence the town to knock off one of their own.
The only way I could be wrong is if major_sephiroth is indeed a regular townsperson. In that case, the only motive he would have had to behave that way (assuming that he is not just stupid, of course) was if he wanted to bait the mafia into nightkilling him, which after I called him out became a useless proposition. He would have dropped the act shortly thereafter. However, he did not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens). However, I'm operating under the assumption that the other players are not stupid. You call my argument a fallacy, when it is in fact quite sound.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 10, 2009, 08:12:53 pm
Possibilities I see, in order of likelihood:
m_s is a townie or doctor, Free Beer is scum who picked him as an easy lynch, knowing he's bad at defending himself from other games.
m_s and Free Beer are both scum, one will die, the other will seem cleared.
m_s and Free Beer are both town; Free Beer is on crack?
m_s is scum, Free Beer is town and is legitimately onto something.
Either way, I'm fairly certain killing both will yield at least one scum death. Assuming no Doctor or Cop successes, we're no worse by Day 3 than:
D1: 2S to 6T. Result: -1 Scum
N1: 1S to 6T. Result: -1 Townie
D2: 1S to 5T. Result: -1 Townie
N2: 1S to 4T. Result: -1 Townie
D3: 1S to 3T
That's assuming, of course, no Doctor successes and no Cops confirming a second Scum for death.
Fake edit: I'm tired, I'm making sense, right?
Post by: dakarian on September 11, 2009, 12:34:19 am
Current Vote:
Major Sephiroth[2]: Free Beer, Sonearage
Free Beer[4]:Pandarsenic, Twiggie, Diakron, Major Sephiroth
Sonearage[1]:Eduren
Eduren[1]:Org
JetSquirel[1]:Toonyman
No-errors Deadline: Friday, 11th Noon EST
less than 10 hours left till the end of the day.
Post by: Vector on September 11, 2009, 12:35:48 am
Free Beer[4]:Pandarsenic, Twiggie, Free Beer, Major Sephiroth
Post by: Diakron on September 11, 2009, 12:53:15 am
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 11, 2009, 01:06:56 am
And I thought being aggressive was bad. I am a regular townie. That is what I mean by not powerful. If I was mafia I would have alluded to having some sort of power, so a townie would hesitate to lynch me. Free Beer, you are just going over the top. If I was the cop, I would have alluded to it to let the doctor (if there is one) know. If I was the doc I would have hid it too.
I now have solid bets on Free Beer being mafia, because he is a little too trigger happy. He also seems to have a vendetta against me. Free Beer, if it is any consolation, I am likely going to be lynched in Vote Mafia because I thought you were remorseful.
Sonerage, don't bandwagon. I am now suspicious of you as well.
Screw OMGUS, vote Free Beer.
Oh, so I'm the one that's trigger happy, when it was you who didn't want to be random voted and ignored any inquiries? Yeah, right. I will refrain from talking about Vote Mafia, since it's an ongoing game.
You claim to be a regular townsperson, and yet you have not provided any sort of account for your suspicious behavior. Furthermore, you provide us with this gem:Sonerage, don't bandwagon. I am now suspicious of you as well.
This is an obvious attempt to intimidate Sonearage into unvoting. You'll notice I tried to pull similar tricks in Vote Mafia 3, when I was scum. I classify your response as an overreaction. Yeah, you're scum. I'm certain. Your latest post is nothing but an attempt to salvage the situation.
Vote Free Beer. he does not have any reason to be leading a lynch right now other then the fact that some one doesn't want to reveal their role.
Diakron, my reason for attacking major_sephiroth is that he acted scummy by going out of his way to avoid answering questions. You will note that my inquiry into his role occurred AFTER I FoS'd him twice.Free Beer, do you even care if we lynch a townie?
I'm at least as suspicious of you as I am of him, mainly since your only grounds for accusing him is about as likely to hit useful town roles.
Do you even care about lynching scum, Pandarsenic? Furthermore, now that major_sephiroth has roleclaimed as a townsperson, the defense you presented on his behalf is now void.You will note that nobody actually made any attempt to argue that I was in fact wrong. Prior to your post, the only person who even suggested it was Pandarsenic, and his only reason is the patently ridiculous theory that I'm rolefishing mafia.No, I'm excited about having found scum for the first time. My reasoning is flawless.
you refuse to accept or acknowledge your possible fallacy - even though it is clearly very possible that you are wrong. this suggests to me that you don't actually think he might be mafia, but are actually trying to influence the town to knock off one of their own.
The only way I could be wrong is if major_sephiroth is indeed a regular townsperson. In that case, the only motive he would have had to behave that way (assuming that he is not just stupid, of course) was if he wanted to bait the mafia into nightkilling him, which after I called him out became a useless proposition. He would have dropped the act shortly thereafter. However, he did not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens). However, I'm operating under the assumption that the other players are not stupid. You call my argument a fallacy, when it is in fact quite sound.
You sir, are an idiot. I'll keep my list of how crap you are organised:
1: Being trigger happy is going out guns blazing, killing all you see, etc. It is NOT avoiding bullets and ignoring enquiries. If I was trigger happy, I would have voted you far earlier than I did. And when did I ignore an enquiry? If you ask me something, make it obvious so I don't just look over your post as another rant against me.
2: The Sonerage bit. I see that as they are scum, who you bullied into voting for me. They seemed hesitant. I didn't realise you pulled this 'trick' off. If I was scum, I sure as well wouldn't copy what you did, as it led to failure. If I was trying to intimidate someone, I would do it in alot more words.
3: Here is the evidence of why I am acting suspicious: I'm a paranoid prick. My character is having an influence on this game, it would seem.
4: This one isn't for FB, but for Diakron: I have claimed to be a regular townie, so your argument has to be re-thought.
5: I would say, with conviction, that Pandar is just cautious. The crap that caution is a scumtell is way off. He is (likely) waiting for more evidence before he attacks anyone. I would have done the same, if you didn't want me dead.
6: I would likely call your argument a fallacy, if I understood a word of it. I looked at the wikipedia page, and sheds no light on it.
Post by: dakarian on September 11, 2009, 02:21:58 am
Free Beer[4]:Pandarsenic, Twiggie, Free Beer, Major Sephiroth
*handwave* You saw nothing. NOTHING.
Post by: Free Beer on September 11, 2009, 07:51:29 am
1. I never stated you were trigger happy. I stated that you gave a very good reason for me to want you dead in the first place.
2. Since you don't seem to be aware of when I tried and failed to intimidate you into unvoting me (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40936.180) (I'm not surprised since nobody called me on it in Vote Mafia), you would also not know that it didn't work and would therefore not know to avoid doing it in the first place. Your defense is null.
5. If you think Pandarsenic is being cautious, then what do you think of his proposal to off both of us?
6. My argument, in less words, is that if we assume two things: (A) you are a competent player, (B) you are telling the truth, we arrive at a conclusion that your behavior inconsistent with your supposed motivations, which is impossible. By modus tollens, either (A) or (B) is false. I am assuming (A), no matter what. Therefore, (B) is false. Your statement in point 3. of your last post is in (A) territory.
How about this, major. If you aren't scum, how about you stop attacking me for attacking you and start convincing me that you aren't scum?
Post by: Free Beer on September 11, 2009, 07:58:00 am
And when did I ignore an enquiry? If you ask me something, make it obvious so I don't just look over your post as another rant against me.
I provide this conversation, which is what started everything in the first place:
Posting so I don't get randomly voted.
Unvote, vote major_sephiroth. Why don't you want to get randomly voted?
Squirrel has posted, so Unvote.
Free Beer, you are just mad I called your bluff in vote mafia.
Congratulations, you just dodged a pointed question about your motives. You have just done something extremely suspicious.
Perhaps I should try a different approach. If Train A leaves Atlantic City headed for Washington D.C at 2:00pm and travels at 120 mph, and Train B leaves New York headed for Washington D.C. at 2:30pm and travels at 150 mph, who are the other scum?
That is not a right angled triangle.
In Euclidean geometry, no it isn't. That's why I said "and it exists in the geometry in which the problem is formulated."
Major, you dodged my question again. Did I mention how suspicious it is when you're acting all evasive like that? I think you should roleclaim.
Post by: dakarian on September 11, 2009, 08:31:46 am
Major Sephiroth[2]: Free Beer, Sonearage
Free Beer[4]:Pandarsenic, Twiggie, Diakron, Major Sephiroth
Sonearage[1]:Eduren
Eduren[1]:Org
JetSquirel[1]:Toonyman
Deadline: Friday, 11th Noon EST
Less than 3 hours left till the end of the day.
Post by: Sonearage on September 11, 2009, 10:05:59 am
Post by: Eduren on September 11, 2009, 10:09:41 am
Post by: Sonearage on September 11, 2009, 10:14:27 am
Post by: dakarian on September 11, 2009, 10:18:44 am
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 11, 2009, 10:47:26 am
Unvote Free beer
And vote for Major_Sephiroth
what does happen when there is a tie? they both get lynched?
im not giving reasons because i just cant see them well
and this is also my first mafia game
Post by: Sonearage on September 11, 2009, 10:50:52 am
Post by: Eduren on September 11, 2009, 10:54:14 am
Note 2: Didn't mention it but if this game No Lynches in case of a tie.
Oh, and you didn't tie it up if that's what you are wondering.
Post by: Eduren on September 11, 2009, 10:55:15 am
Post by: Eduren on September 11, 2009, 10:58:27 am
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 11, 2009, 11:33:35 am
Post by: Twiggie on September 11, 2009, 12:03:37 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 11, 2009, 12:10:01 pm
In other words: Don't read anything into it.
The debate began calmly enough; as well as any conversation about who should die could be. Around mid-day, however, an argument brewed between Major Sephiroth and Free Beer. Accusations became tense and bitter as the day passed into night. Finally, Sonaerage silenced the argument with a scream.
"ENOUGH! It's almost morning! Let's...let's just end it already."
She then slumps into her chair, having used the last of her strength.
Cards are handed out, small and white, where each person is to write one name. A few shake their heads when a card is handed to them, unable to decide. Eduren, being one of the undecided-he accepted the card but simply left it blank on a chair-stood up and counted the votes.
Major Sephiroth[3]: Free Beer, Sonearage, Jetsquirrel
Free Beer[4]:Pandarsenic, Twiggie, Diakron, Major Sephiroth
Eduren[1]:Org
JetSquirel[1]:Toonyman
Major Sephiroth pulled Free Beer up to him by the collar. "Try to kill me scum? Well look who's killed their last." The others, not as eager, drag the chosen man away to the town square.
It took too long for the breath to finally leave him. Too long. Yet, it was done. Without a word, each person left the hanging corpse to pick up their things back at the building. Before they could leave, however, a gasp is heard nearby the center table. Turning around, everyone runs back to see the source of the panic. The rush of people meant that finding the one who called out became impossible, but the reason for the gasp became clear.
One of the white cards was left behind. Instead of a name, two words were written:
You missed.
Free Beer, Townie, has been lynched.
It is now Night 1. You may not post, PM, or discuss this matter in this or any other forum.
Night Roles, send me your PMs with your choices.
The Night will end on Saterday, about 1am EST or when I receive all required PMs.
Post by: dakarian on September 12, 2009, 10:52:19 pm
In any case...
Post by: dakarian on September 12, 2009, 10:53:16 pm
It is unclear if the rope hung around Eduren neck and tied to the ceiling killed him or the pair of bullet holes to his gut. What is clear is that he suffered more than the ones in Town Square.
There was no note, but why would one be needed? The mafia are not content to kill us. They want us to suffer; both those they kill and the ones left behind.
This must end, and soon.
Eduren, townie, was killed in the night.
It is now Day 2. Current deadline: Wednesday 16th, 11am EST
Post by: ToonyMan on September 12, 2009, 11:09:02 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 12, 2009, 11:50:03 pm
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 12, 2009, 11:55:51 pm
Free beer has a piontI'm with Toony because of this.
Unvote Free beer
And vote for Major_Sephiroth
what does happen when there is a tie? they both get lynched?
im not giving reasons because i just cant see them well
and this is also my first mafia game
He doesn't give reasons, and yet votes? Trigger happy, just like Free Beer. I'm not actually voting yet, but I am very suspicious. Heavily bandwagony as well.
Post by: Diakron on September 13, 2009, 12:05:06 am
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 13, 2009, 01:05:08 am
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 13, 2009, 03:06:23 am
I vote for Major_Sephiroth
PS the reason why i cant give a reason is that i am not very good with reading and getting a conclusion out of it
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 13, 2009, 03:54:12 am
Post by: Sonearage on September 13, 2009, 08:14:43 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 13, 2009, 08:33:10 am
MAFIA THEORY TIME.
Quote
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Oh_My_God!_You_Suck (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Oh_My_God!_You_Suck)
I'm of the opinion the OMGUS votes are essentially a null tell (a tell that is essentially meaningless, for the reasons that follow) among the Bay12games crowd.
First problem: Everybody knows it's a scumtell becuase nobody can vote for someone who voted for them without it being mentioned.
Second problem: It's used, if a scum is using it, to bring someone they want dead closer to a lynch. Jetsquirrel, though I agree his lack of reasoning is irritating, is casting m_s's first vote.
Third problem: Because it's so well known, Scum make a point of avoiding it and when someone does OMGUS, if they don't want to look like scum, they have to provide huge amounts of justification.
I'm going to take a look at Jetsquirrel's actions yesterday to see if I may choose him over m_s, but m_s is not really acting very townlike....
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 13, 2009, 10:23:43 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 13, 2009, 10:25:40 am
MAFIA THEORY TIME.Quotehttp://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Oh_My_God!_You_Suck (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Oh_My_God!_You_Suck)
I'm of the opinion the OMGUS votes are essentially a null tell (a tell that is essentially meaningless, for the reasons that follow) among the Bay12games crowd.
First problem: Everybody knows it's a scumtell becuase nobody can vote for someone who voted for them without it being mentioned.
Second problem: It's used, if a scum is using it, to bring someone they want dead closer to a lynch. Jetsquirrel, though I agree his lack of reasoning is irritating, is casting m_s's first vote.
Third problem: Because it's so well known, Scum make a point of avoiding it and when someone does OMGUS, if they don't want to look like scum, they have to provide huge amounts of justification.
That stuff is all my commentary just for reference.
Post by: dakarian on September 13, 2009, 10:52:07 am
But mind calming on the actual swears? It's less a hard rule and more a sociable thing.
The "While I'm posting" Vote Count:
Jetsquirrel[1]: Toonyman
Major Sephiroth[2]: Jetsquirrel, Pandarsenic
Note 1: Just for tutorial's sake: Whenever you want to cast suspicion on someone but don't want to vote, there's a term for it: Finger of Suspicion, or FOS. It's not a true vote so you can treat it as you like (bold it. Don't bold it.. ext..). It means "You caught my eye and I'd like to shine a spotlight on you."
Note 2: Last reminder, Make sure you use red with a name or else it won't count as a vote
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 13, 2009, 04:50:25 pm
If I was going to bandwagon him to death, I'dve voted him by now.
So you all know who I'm suspicious of, it is Jetsquirrel and Sonerage.
Sonerage, why do you think I'm scum?
Jetsquirrel, are you angry because you are scum?
Pan Classington, Free Beer was just on crack.
Post by: Diakron on September 13, 2009, 08:28:30 pm
NO FUCKING SHIT MAJOR_SEPHIROTH this is my first mafia game what do you expect to see that im pro? orfuckingwhat?
hmm i believe i had that same problem.
and yes i too think that M_S may be scum since FB was town but not more then a FOS on from me as i think these people may be scum at this time :
M_S - he and FB's fight may be just two townies going after each other but im was pretty sure FB stumbled across M_S being scum but FB reacted so violently.
Jet - Maybe just new or a scum that feels like he's being cornered. after all toony was basically random voting to get things started no need for a super violent reaction.
For now Vote... Jetsquirrel.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 14, 2009, 10:06:20 am
Post by: Twiggie on September 14, 2009, 11:40:14 am
free beer flipping town gives some extra credibility to his argument, so im gonna go with his idea for now.
however, im also going to FoS jetsquirrel, more for not providing reasons for voting than flipping out, though that is also a factor. you can't not give reasons for voting - its against the whole spirit of mafia imho.
Post by: dakarian on September 14, 2009, 11:50:17 am
Jetsquirrel[2]: Toonyman, Diakron
Major Sephiroth[3]: Jetsquirrel, Pandarsenic, Twiggy
Note: Weekends can end up quieter. Thus why I dislike weekend deadlines.
Deadline: Wednesday, 16th 11am EST
Of course, if today is as silent as a weekend: aka: *prod group*
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 14, 2009, 01:04:08 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 14, 2009, 01:32:52 pm
you know that if you are going to vote against me we are going to get doomed?
Meh. Defend yourself, don't say lynching me will show me as town, that's a bad defense.
The reason I'm voting for you is your constant bandwagoning and odd behavior.
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 14, 2009, 01:33:54 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 14, 2009, 01:36:11 pm
i dont mind lynching me but i warned you
Unvote major_sephiroth, vote Jetsquirrel.
Defeatism is a huge scumtell.
Post by: Twiggie on September 14, 2009, 01:41:04 pm
i dont mind lynching me but i warned you
Unvote major_sephiroth, vote Jetsquirrel.
Defeatism is a huge scumtell.
ima go ahead and defend jetsquirrel here, seeing that this is exactly what i did in my first mafia.
jetsquirrel, you need to build a case against somebody else to take the heat off you, otherwise you'll just get lynched. even if you are town, this is still bad because it wastes a lynch that could've been used on a scum.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 14, 2009, 01:44:12 pm
i dont mind lynching me but i warned you
Unvote major_sephiroth, vote Jetsquirrel.
Defeatism is a huge scumtell.
ima go ahead and defend jetsquirrel here, seeing that this is exactly what i did in my first mafia.
jetsquirrel, you need to build a case against somebody else to take the heat off you, otherwise you'll just get lynched. even if you are town, this is still bad because it wastes a lynch that could've been used on a scum.
Called deflection, also a scumtell. You need to build a case as to why you're not scum.
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 14, 2009, 01:46:02 pm
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 14, 2009, 01:48:42 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 14, 2009, 02:09:42 pm
*Pulls out WIFOM coffee*
Post by: ToonyMan on September 14, 2009, 02:11:03 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 14, 2009, 02:16:30 pm
Pandarsenic But what happens im if NOT the scum? then you just lost another voterThat's why you defend yourself....
Post by: Sonearage on September 14, 2009, 02:57:39 pm
Oh I have a question, how interesting,
Sonerage, why do you think I'm scum?
Well, Free Beer got lynched, right, he also had a hunch, against you.
You took great offence in that even though this is a what this game is about, you really went at each other, but hey ho, Free Beer just HAPPENED to get lynched. Coincidence. Or not. One of the main people against you gets hanged. Also it happens that you are behaving quite oddly so therefore suspiciouslyand you are a begginer so you may not be any good at covering yourself up. I also happen to have gut feeling about this.
I may get killed or lynched for this but if I'm right I'll be happy.
And that Major_Sephiroth I is why I belive that you are scum.
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 14, 2009, 04:59:39 pm
Me, being suspicious? Perish the thought.
So you are following a dead guy's hunch? When has that ever been smart? And a gut feeling? Get some evidence buddy.
Ever think that Free Beer just hates me?
I think Jet is a little emotional right now. Maybe that is because he is scum?
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 15, 2009, 11:18:17 am
Quote
Defeatism is a huge scumtell.
When did i say exactly that im defeated?
I just dont mind it unlike most of the people that React to the vote In some way and By typing something wrong They call suspicion upon themselves. I Just cant think of any argument
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 15, 2009, 11:31:45 am
i dont mind lynching me but i warned you
BUT im bad against making an argument against anybody else
Pandarsenic But what happens im if NOT the scum? then you just lost another voter
See, all this nonsense about "OH WELL IF YOU LYNCH ME YOU LOSE A TOWN VOTER" without any compelling reason to think you're a *town* voter, this is why you look like scum. You're trying to WIFOM-blackmail us into letting you live by going "BUT WHAT IF I CAN HAZ TOWNIE?"
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 15, 2009, 12:21:44 pm
And if i do so then the scum will take me for the nightkill or the scum will try to lynch me
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 15, 2009, 12:58:31 pm
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 15, 2009, 01:03:05 pm
This wil be my first and last mafia game
Post by: Vector on September 15, 2009, 01:03:45 pm
Lastly, do NOT quote my PM text
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 15, 2009, 01:04:02 pm
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 15, 2009, 01:05:48 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 15, 2009, 04:34:47 pm
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 15, 2009, 04:42:29 pm
i can prove it WIth my Mail of my roleDO NOT DO THIS. The scum won't lynch or nightkill you. You will be modkilled, INSTANTLY (Whenever the mod sees it).
And if i do so then the scum will take me for the nightkill or the scum will try to lynch me
Sonerage, are you just following in Free Beer's broken footsteps?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 15, 2009, 06:24:41 pm
yeah i know im noob at this . Even if i say something i will make myself a bigger noob.
This wil be my first and last mafia game
There is nothing wrong with being new at a game and nothing shameful about doing poorly your first time. Like most thing, Mafia games take practice to get good at.
And, yes, you'll be attacked for doing poorly. That's expected, since attacking people is a major part of the game. Just do your best and when things go wrong just learn from your mistakes. Oh, and watch what other people do and learn from their mistakes too!
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 15, 2009, 11:32:11 pm
Post by: Jetsquirrel on September 16, 2009, 12:22:03 am
i learned Polish first then Dutch And then finally English and im learning now French and German also
Post by: dakarian on September 16, 2009, 12:39:06 am
Current Vote:
Jetsquirrel[3]: Toonyman, Diakron, Pandarsenic,
Major Sephiroth[2]: Jetsquirrel, Twiggy
Deadline: Wednesday, 16th 11am EST
Less than 10 hours left.
Post by: dakarian on September 16, 2009, 11:02:31 am
Contrary to the yelling and screaming during the day, nothing could be heard inside the little building when the church bell rang. It's hard to keep a competitive attitude when you realize that the arguments are which of your neighbors and friend should die next.
As had happened the first day, white cards were handed out. Again, some decided not to accept the card. When the last person placed their vote on the table, it was Jetsquirrel that stepped forward to count the votes. Each time he saw his name come up, he cringed. By the time he was finished, however, he just stared at the table blankly. After realizing he wasn't going to speak, the others walked to the table. He had arranged the cards: sorted for easy reading:
Jetsquirrel[3]: Toonyman, Diakron, Pandarsenic,
Major Sephiroth[2]: Jetsquirrel, Twiggy
Jetsquirrel turned to speak, but chose to sign and shake his head instead. There was no fighting and no debate for the rest of the day.
Facts have an ugly habit of coming to light when it is too late to use them. It would not be until tomorrow that members of the community would remind the Townspeople that Jetsquirrel had left to his home in Europe during the firebombings. It was also well known that mafia group plaguing this town was bitterly anti-European.
Although a court would label such evidence as circumstantial, when combined with the feeling in your gut you had at the square it seems enough proof of what you've actually done.
It starts to get hard to hate someone, when you have as much innocent blood on your hands as them.
Jetsquirrel, Townie, has been lynched
Night roles, send me your choices.
The next day shall start on Thursday, 17th 11am EST or when I receive all choices.
Post by: dakarian on September 17, 2009, 12:59:20 am
The dull morning sprang to life by from the other people from the town. Loud knocking sounds were heard from the headquarters, causing the people to run to the Townspeople in fear. Each one of you were woken up by repeated door bells and calls of "HEY! Wake up!"
When everyone reached the little building, several things came into notice:
The entire floor, normally of wood paneling, was layered in concrete. The chairs and tables of the main room were neatly placed and the construction was well made.
The only oddity beyond this was the loud thumping itself which, indeed, seem to come from the floor.
Toonyman is missing.
A note was left on the table: "Crack the ground and BOOM goes the town!"
The Townspeople ignore the threat and attempt to gather a rescue party, but the entire town turns you away. It seems the people were given the warning as well and are more willing to listen to an unseen assailant than a shrinking group of freedom fighters. What's more, the town is small and never had the need for heavy tools-the concrete must have been shipped in. In the end, six people would have no means to find a way through the concrete in one day, and who knows what will happen tonight.
An unspoken question hangs in the air: what to do now?
Toonyman, townie, was killed in the night.
...eventually.
Deadline: Friday, 18th 11am, EST
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 17, 2009, 01:48:24 am
...
...
That's kind of disturbing.
I guess I'll kick off the day with a return to my major_sephiroth vote.
Ugh, and we hit Lylo soon, too.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 17, 2009, 02:05:17 am
major_sephiroth
There.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 17, 2009, 05:56:41 am
Post by: Sonearage on September 17, 2009, 11:27:48 am
Post by: dakarian on September 17, 2009, 12:56:00 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 17, 2009, 03:49:12 pm
Night-Killed again. Am I becoming too powerful?!
I think it's because you pointed out that nobody ever nightkilled you.
Actually, where was that? I suspect that the scum in the games you were in may all have been participants in that. XD
If he can't link me, can someone else?
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 17, 2009, 04:05:28 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 18, 2009, 12:42:41 am
Current vote:
Major_Sephiroth[1]: Pandarsenic
Deadline: Friday, 18th, 11am EST
There are less than 10 hours remaining.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 18, 2009, 01:13:37 am
major_sephiroth isn't even responding to my vote.....
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 18, 2009, 01:30:25 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 18, 2009, 02:45:14 am
I'm still suspicious of you from the day 1 thing with Free Beer, but I'm less certain - I'm as worried about the lurkers by this point.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 18, 2009, 07:06:29 am
Twiggie, speak up.
Post by: Alexhans on September 18, 2009, 07:10:38 am
anyway... posting to have it on my watchlist.
Post by: dakarian on September 18, 2009, 08:33:28 am
Deadline: 1 hour, 30 minutes
I'll need more than 2 people talking to extend the day, but I'll only need one voter to lynch.
Post by: Sonearage on September 18, 2009, 09:46:02 am
Post by: dakarian on September 18, 2009, 09:50:39 am
*dislikes seeing a whole day go by with almost no discussion*
Post by: Twiggie on September 18, 2009, 09:56:51 am
he's supposed to be an IC here, but he's hardly spoken. i am also still suspicious of m_s.
vote day extension.
Post by: dakarian on September 18, 2009, 10:22:02 am
I'm taking account of who seems to be plain old AWOL. I mostly want to see action from the active members at the moment.
A reason why I'm hesitant: If I extend, it'll be Monday for the next deadline. I don't want to push it back 3 days just to see everything exactly the same as before.
Post by: Sonearage on September 18, 2009, 11:29:19 am
Post by: dakarian on September 18, 2009, 11:55:36 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 18, 2009, 01:41:17 pm
Twiggie
Free Beer
Sonearage
Eduren
Diakron
Jetsquirrel
Org
Pandarsenic
Toonyman
Lime green for active, yellow for active-lurking (posting without scumhunting), red for inactive, teal for dead.
Rearranged, that's:
Twiggie
Pandarsenic
Major_Sephiroth
Sonearage
Diakron
Org
Free Beer
Eduren
Jetsquirrel
Toonyman
My actual unvote-and-vote-for goes to Sonearage. Why are you posting without contributing?
(I can't believe I'm forced to repeat the random vote stage just to get people scumhunting on Day 3).
Post by: Sonearage on September 18, 2009, 01:45:36 pm
Dakarian: Thanx for the tip ;D
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 18, 2009, 01:49:20 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 18, 2009, 01:58:02 pm
I'll prod Diakron.
Looks like you MAY have the weekend. When I come back, I'll have to sort the live from the 'dead'.
Post by: Sonearage on September 18, 2009, 02:26:01 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 18, 2009, 02:34:25 pm
pleasant
So, uh, going to actually scumhunt?
Post by: Org on September 18, 2009, 03:24:36 pm
Post by: Twiggie on September 18, 2009, 03:39:46 pm
partly because i still find him suspicious from before, partly to make him panic and start talking.
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 18, 2009, 04:10:24 pm
On topic, Sonerage, you have some 'splaining to do about your bandwagoning with Free Beer. You yourself said you would regret it, so why did you vote me, when you had none of your own reasoning to back it up?
A poor response to this will result in me voting for you. Tread carefully now.
Post by: Diakron on September 18, 2009, 07:09:05 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 19, 2009, 12:32:33 am
*hero music plays* Now get to work. You have a town to save.
Post by: Diakron on September 19, 2009, 01:04:32 am
Post by: Diakron on September 19, 2009, 01:09:01 am
Sonearage why are you doing nothing... i cant tell if your town or scum becuase all you do is say: "ya what they said" and nothing else ... either you are town and we lose basically nothing or you are scum and we have 1 down... however many are left... left
Post by: Sonearage on September 19, 2009, 05:18:50 am
Major_Sephiroth:
The reason I may regret I do have my reasonings,
A) You ARE behaving scumily(?) ,and don't go all huffy with me! It's just that like I said before, you take nearly EVERYTHING offensively even though none of it is personal, plus, you also seem to be going against anyone who doesn't agree with you.
Diakron:
because my daddy or brother is nearly ALWAYS on the comp + read the above.
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 19, 2009, 07:06:59 am
If you have your reasons, (Not reasonings, reasons) you are only hurting the town by hiding them from plain sight. Is that your plan?
If I don't defend myself to the fullest extent, then people think I'm scum. You make the situation paradoxial.
It doesn't take long to type out a few sentences, so tell the town your reasons.
Also, did you not understand my earlier question? I asked why you voted me right after Free Beer did. General accusations mean nothing on this.
As I said, tell the town your reasons for thinking that I am scum. If you are town, you have nothing to lose!
Post by: Diakron on September 19, 2009, 07:25:09 pm
I for one think you are a liar since it says you have to be 13 years or older to join this forums and a parent is not allowed to give that permission last time i looked at the agreement, therefor i say Lynch all Liars and will not unvote.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 19, 2009, 07:31:50 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 19, 2009, 07:44:58 pm
Major_Sephiroth:[1] Twiggie
Sonearage:[2] Pandarsenic, Diakron
Deadline Mod extended due to host being afk at the old deadline:
Deadline: Tue, 22nd 1:30 am EST
Post by: Diakron on September 19, 2009, 11:16:19 pm
Post by: Twiggie on September 20, 2009, 04:52:19 am
vote diakron for falling prey to his own logic
Post by: dakarian on September 20, 2009, 08:46:51 pm
Current vote:
Major_Sephiroth:[1] Twiggie
Sonearage:[2] Pandarsenic, Diakron
Deadline: Tue, 22nd 1:30 am EST
Post by: Sonearage on September 21, 2009, 10:12:23 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 21, 2009, 01:56:20 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 21, 2009, 02:05:49 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2009, 02:09:17 pm
Oh wait, I'm dead.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 21, 2009, 02:12:44 pm
Are you trying to cause a no-lynch?!
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 21, 2009, 04:27:43 pm
Respond to all of these if you want me to unvote you.
How exactly am I behaving like scum? And if someone goes against you, don't you defend yourself?This is also to stop a no-lynch scenario, which has a high chance of hurting town.
If you have your reasons, (Not reasonings, reasons) you are only hurting the town by hiding them from plain sight. Is that your plan?
If I don't defend myself to the fullest extent, then people think I'm scum. You make the situation paradoxial.
It doesn't take long to type out a few sentences, so tell the town your reasons.
Also, did you not understand my earlier question? I asked why you voted me right after Free Beer did. General accusations mean nothing on this.
As I said, tell the town your reasons for thinking that I am scum. If you are town, you have nothing to lose!
Post by: Diakron on September 21, 2009, 04:42:53 pm
so your reasoning is that he lied outside the game, therefore he must lie inside the game?
vote diakron for falling prey to his own logic
ok coming from me this is odd but... HUH??? what are you saying?
Post by: Twiggie on September 21, 2009, 04:56:29 pm
unless something is seriously very strange, you have also lied irl at one point or another. by your logic, this means you are also lying ingame, and thus you must die, by the 'principle' of Lynch all Liars.
your reasoning is flimsy at best, and thus im voting for you. i will, of course, unvote you if you unvote sonearage.
Post by: Diakron on September 21, 2009, 05:01:35 pm
Post by: Twiggie on September 21, 2009, 05:37:30 pm
and if i were sonearage's scum buddy, do you really think i would actively vote in his defence if you had a stack of three votes already?
Post by: Diakron on September 21, 2009, 08:00:34 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 21, 2009, 09:39:39 pm
He's clearly only voting m_s to force a no-lynch - from this, I determine it's likely that major is more likely to be town and Sonearage is much less likely to be such.
Post by: dakarian on September 22, 2009, 03:29:55 am
Major_Sephiroth:[2] Twiggie, Sonearage
Sonearage:[3] Pandarsenic, Diakron, Major Sephiroth
Note: If I miss the deadline, I blame RL. Go check the weather in Georgia: it's crazy-go-nuts.
Note 2: Once deadline is reached, the day ends the second I can log in to do so. You can keep posting and voting until then but know it can be over at any time.
Deadline: Tuesday, 22nd 11am EST.
Less than 7 hours from now.
Post by: Twiggie on September 22, 2009, 08:20:03 am
Post by: dakarian on September 22, 2009, 12:40:12 pm
Gong, Gong
I sat back behind the wall of the little building. For the past few days, that bell was meaningful. It meant that someone was going to die. Even though no one outside the building was involved, the people within this town hated that bell. They especially hated it the other day when the Townspeople pulled that small girl while she kicked and screamed.
Major Sephiroth had held Sonearage while Twiggie fitted the noose. Pandasenic and Diakron kept their distance. This was not lost on the rest of the town. When they were finished, Major Sephiroth turned back at the two behind him, "Why aren't you helping? You wanted her dead."
Pandasenic shook head head, "Wanted her dead? You've been the one killing people left and right. I haven't had a hand in any of this slaughter."
Twiggie turned around at that realization. He was right: when it came time to carry out with the lynching, he was never involved. Neither was Diakron.
Panadsenic continued, his voice carrying above Sonearage's strangled cries, "Every day you came together in this mad witch hunt. Every day you slaughtered some innocent soul in your reckless quest for revenge. It started with that poor innocent fool and now, helpless girls."
Major Sephiroth couldn't let that accusation stand, "Innocent? Dakarian was no innocent. He's part of the Mafia that bombed our buildings! He's a murderer!"
Pandasenic sighed, "Dakarian was the least hostile out of all of them. Do you know how many times he would say 'They aren't sheep to slaughter. Just lead them, tell them what to do, but treat them like people.' He stopped more killings than you have hanged. Only one person was involved in those bombings and that person is dead. Dakarian did nothing to you."
"Besides, that man you killed was not Dakarian"
The last came from myself. I had spent the last few minutes gathering a few members of the community.
My Family sat there shocked. "Sorry I didn't say anything. I spent some time just happy to be alive. One of the Robinson kids saw it and got his family over. A good thing you guys didn't start watching the hanged die until after mine. In any case, they pulled me down and strung up a dummy. Wasn't sure if I was going to die anyway-I think I saw a few folks along the way. They.."
Pandasenic's glare told me to get on with it.
"Alright alright! While you guys were killing, I got the rest of the town involved. They don't like the way you're handling things. The family makes sure we have a reason to kill. You guys.. person says the wrong word and they get hanged. That's not good PR."
A crowd has formed around you now. Some maintained that downcast look while others glared. You realize you read them wrong. They did fear the Mafia, but they feared you more.
"People gathered here. Pandasenic and Daikron are not your enemies this day. The rest I put to judgement. I'd rather none of you watch what will happen so unless you have something to say it'll be best if you move on. Tomorrow, all of this will be just a memory."
One by one, each person leaves. Some hesitate, wishing to say something. Others stare as if they wish to watch. In the end, each person left until all that remained were what was left of the Townspeople of Freedom, and the Mafia.
A few days past since then. It still hurts to talk. The Godfather says it'll teach me to babble so much. The bodies were removed from the Town Square. That was a stupid move, putting them up there. Oh well, it's best not to dwell on bad memories. Perhaps some other day some idiots will get some mess stuck in their head. For now though, I think everyone knows their proper place around here.
As the Godfather would say, it's fixed.
Final vote:
Major_Sephiroth:[2] Twiggie, Sonearage
Sonearage:[3] Pandarsenic, Diakron, Major Sephiroth
Sonearage, Townie, was lynched.
Mafia members, Pandasenic and Diakron win.
Post by: Vector on September 22, 2009, 12:46:41 pm
Anyway, I'm considering signing up as an IC, though I'm not sure if it's a good idea. Webadict did a really good job for Beginner's 1, and I feel like I might be a bit too readable or somesuch (given that he can apparently always tell I'm scum within my first two posts).
Thoughts?
Post by: dakarian on September 22, 2009, 01:00:54 pm
Dead Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/emPL3tc95aUe)
Mafia Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/8DAmw9X8CXQg)
if I get the chance, tonight I'll put up some post game info. For now, I welcome everyone to comment on the game.
Post by: Sonearage on September 22, 2009, 01:11:01 pm
Post by: Twiggie on September 22, 2009, 01:14:29 pm
woulda called him out but didnt realise the day was gonna end :p
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 01:48:05 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 22, 2009, 01:52:04 pm
Post by: Vector on September 22, 2009, 02:50:35 pm
I guess I'll stay out of this one, then, and IC Beginner's IV--should be done with 5 by then.
Post by: Diakron on September 22, 2009, 03:04:40 pm
Post by: Sonearage on September 22, 2009, 03:11:07 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 22, 2009, 03:32:11 pm
Post by: major_sephiroth on September 22, 2009, 04:24:46 pm
Post by: Twiggie on September 22, 2009, 05:20:27 pm
Townies, stop being so fucking suspicious so we can actually bloody well tell who the accursed scum are!
it is the scums objective to obfuscate such matters. and they do.
plus any tiny thing will be picked up on if nobody is suspicious.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2009, 05:25:20 pm
I'm just a little mad that all the town was acting suspicious. That's why it's beginner though.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 22, 2009, 06:11:16 pm
Plus, I was prepared to point out that you all would have just let the game end without my pushing.
Post by: Diakron on September 22, 2009, 09:29:19 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2009, 09:34:00 pm
gah i was kinda hoping there was a cop and they'd check pandar out and then it would have been too easy :)
That would have made things worst. Pandarsenic was a Godfather, he would come up town to cop checks.
Post by: Vector on September 22, 2009, 09:35:22 pm
gah i was kinda hoping there was a cop and they'd check pandar out and then it would have been too easy :)
That would have made things worst. Pandarsenic was a Godfather, he would come up town to cop checks.
... Wouldn't that be the point, from Diakron's point of view?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2009, 09:36:22 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 22, 2009, 10:20:10 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 22, 2009, 11:08:42 pm
For the record: The only special role was held by Pandasenic as the Godfather. Everyone else was vanilla.
Dead Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/emPL3tc95aUe)
Mafia Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/8DAmw9X8CXQg)
if I get the chance, tonight I'll put up some post game info. For now, I welcome everyone to comment on the game.
WAIT WAIT WAIT! If there was no cop role, how come you gave the mafia a role that is specifically immune to cops?
Post by: Rysith on September 22, 2009, 11:28:37 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 12:41:10 am
In any case, a few words in general:
You guys weren't that bad in hunting early on. The problem is that you were TOO sure of yourselves in picking the mafia. I got burnt the same way in my newbie game. By that I don't mean always question yourself per se. Directly saying "OMG YOU ARE SCUM!" is fine.
You should make your accusations and pressure on one person like you did, BUT always glance to your side at the others. Watch for the person that just seems to be joining in just to follow someone (rather than thinking for themselves). Watch for the person that's sitting in the sidelines. Watch for the one that's so willing to put suspicion and talk into it but never seem to want to commit to saying "Yes, you ARE scum!"
If you read the game with your newfound knowledge of who is who, you'll see Panda was willing to nudge you in the 'right' direction.
Btw, Seph: your very first post was a mess of suspicion in a bottle.
Quote
Posting so I don't get randomly voted.
Has Jetsquirrel posted yet?
1. You are being defensive. You showed, from your first post, that you dislike votes on you, even during the random voting stage.
It's based on the concept that "townies are willing to die while mafia have too much to live for". The more you show that you're trying to save your own hide, the more you look like a mafia that wants to keep living instead of a townie that knows they are probably going to die anyway.
Besides, it's putting the focus on yourself. It's best to make sure your posts are all about the ones you think are scum (or just anyone that looks suspicious, or attempting to figure out who is suspicious).
It's an odd paradox. To try to save yourself, you lead to your own death.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 23, 2009, 05:06:43 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2009, 06:00:31 am
Can I get critique of my play by any chance?
Same. Meh.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 23, 2009, 09:43:06 am
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 10:22:59 am
pandasenic: You are pretty frightful as a mafia. Right off the bat you start up the random voting stage right while a few people stumble. That's exactly a good starting move for the mafia: look pro town while others look scummy. Loved the name spelling banter btw: good PR (I didn't notice it was Diakron that joined in on it till just now, meh).
The vote on Diakron was dangerous though. He was already under suspicion so joining in using the same argument is a "Follow the group" scumtell. You then flip flop your vote, which is what you accused Diakron of doing. The riskiest part was the "(except his partner?)". That was a self-referencial leak. I know I tend to bypass those things but others JUMP on that stuff.
You got through all that because the town was focused on Diakron and wasn't looking at others. After that, you turned back to regular scumhunting, choosing someone unsuspected and pressuring them.
Oh, also love the WIFOM you left afterwards, along with defending Seph.
Also love the 'analysis' that basically comes down to "One of them might be scum so let's kill them both". If I was in game as town I probably would've WOTed in support of that theory.
From there, you had the town firmly focused and tunnelvisioned on those two.
After that, you had a lightning rod: a person you could always lean accusations on that no one would question. Day 2 Jet was accused and, from that, the town was locked. You plopped your vote on the 'safe bet', let the town find a second person, then turned on that person. The town was left either hating the 'always suspicious' or the 'newly suspicious'. So long as Major lived the town would never scumhunt and, instead, bandwagoned. That's why day 2+3 ended so fast: no one analyzed anything.
Thus you had the game in your hand right after you accused Free Beer instead of Major. Without anyone to derail BOTH accusations, the town had no escape.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 10:42:49 am
First off, to those that are new, make a note that Toony is Crazy. Seriously! I mean just look at his Avatar. I don't even have to worry about him changing it, whatever it changes to will be just as crazy.
The point? His style is unconventional. We had a hard time getting over it at first and, thus, kept lynching him a while back. He's no fool though. Mafia rely on using well-designed 'fake town' acting to survive. That's hard to do when someone is unconventional, since you have to improvise your reaction, which can lead to giving off more than you plan to.
Point to all that: Don't stop being crazy.
What I WILL say though is that you need to be more active and aggressive. You went after Jetsquirrel in Day 2 but, in truth, that SHOULD'VE been in Day 1. If you pushed then it would've helped to keep the town from getting tunnelvisioned into the Major/Free debate. By the time you brought it out, your debate was used to create the Major/Jetsquirrel debate.
Oh, and when "you're defending yourself the wrong way" comes to your mind, that's the time to think "what if someone is setting him up". He was defending himself poorly but lynching should NOT be used to punish poor defense. Once you suspect that he might be a townie that can't defend properly, you've put a HUGE wrench in your own argument. That's when you first ask "if he was a townie that plays that badly, would the rest of what he did make sense" and "he's VERY obvious.. is there a scum around that's abusing that?"
After Day 2, you had no target to focus on, and you didn't bite into the Major_Sephiroth apple. That meant you would probably start scumhunting. That's why you didn't survive to Day 3.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 11:32:01 am
I can say this right now before reading: You were used by the mafia.
You planted suspicion on yourself and proved that you were a defensive player right from the gate. That, along with the comments that sound like you are hiding information led to the initial susipicion on you. The mafia took that and used you as a lightning rod. Notice that every day they accused you, but then pulled off to bandwagon someone else. You were their 'safe bet'. They could point to your actions, say "he looks bad" then pull off you and expect you to join in with them. Notice that Day 1 and 3 had BOTH mafias and you on the same person.
Once fully established, it's HARD to break from it. It usually takes someone else to go and derail the debate long enough for you to be able to get back to the attack. Thus the best place to analyze is early in in Day 1, before you were held for hostage.
As I said earlier: you want to avoid having to put attention to yourself as much as possible. Don't take up a defensive stance, no matter how much you dislike suspicion on you. No matter how much you don't like random votes on you, endure it because ANY attempt you will make to stop it will put a TON of suspicion on you. Random Votes fade away all on their own. Just ignore them and get to the aggression. The sooner you pretend the random votes on you didn't happen, the faster they fly away once real suspicion kicks in.
@Aimed at everyone here, not just Major
Another matter: question dodging. I'll be blunt
Never.
EVER.
DO IT
Answer EVERY question given to you. Even if it's silly. Even if it's obvious. Even if you know they will use your answer to accuse you more. ANSWER IT!
You have a reason for every move that you do. As town, you MUST be prepared to give those reasons. Don't say "I have my reasons". Don't go "I don't want to say them now." Don't dump accusations on the questioner. Just answer.
The question is one of the most powerful tools town has against the mafia. It's like shaking a fruit tree: do it right and SOMETHING will come out. Townies will answer in a way that makes them look town. Mafia will eventually say something that ruins their 'pretend town' status. Perhaps at the time of asking, it's not clear, but trust me, later on you'll look back and realize "wait a minute.. that smells like MAFIA!" and bag a scum.
Thus trying to mess up a questioner is not much different from posting "Oh yah. I bet you die tonight!"
Are there times when a town CAN dodge the question? Perhaps, but those are rare. Just know that you just heaped a whole truck load of suspicion on you by doing so and be ready to either spend half the day digging yourself out of it or getting lynched.
Ok, back to the Seph analysis
You said earlier that 'being aggressive is bad'. I'll be blunt here too, Slap the person that told you that.
Townies MUST be aggressive because that's the only way they can win. Remember that it's your vote and the lynch that wins for the town. The mafia can sit back, hide, and kill at night safely. As such, aggression is actually a Town tell. Yes, some people try to lynch for that but, if you notice, they tend to be the ones who regularly lynch the strongest townies, leaving the rest of the town weak to the mafia's influence.
To put it another way, chances are the person pointing the finger saying "OMG SCUM!" is town while the person whispering in their ear saying "he looks bad" is mafia.
Your attack on Free Beer was strong though.
As for Day 2 and 3, you were lightning rodded so meh. I CAN show something that, in the future, you should watch for.
Pandasenic started the day voting for you, then not long after voted for someone else.
That's inconsistent. If he thought you were mafia ALL THIS TIME, why would he pull his vote off of you to go after someone else? What are you, some "reserve mafia"? The second you think someone is mafia, you don't let up, even if you know there's a second one out there. You can still debate and accuse others, but he didn't even speak about you once his vote was pulled to another.
If you see that again, call them on it. Ask "So you don't think I'm mafia anymore?" If they say "I do but this person looks worse" then tear them apart! If they think you are mafia then they are letting the mafia go to attack someone else. That they 'look worse' isn't good enough. They can't "put one mafia to the side to find another". What a Townie SHOULD do is kill the one in front of them THEN attack another.
If they say "Yah, you are" then vote for you, it's a flip flop. Demand their full set of reasons for accusing you. If they complain (i..e "I already said it, go read my past posts"), that's a Question Dodge, turn on them for attempting to be lazy. If they pull off, keep on them. If they present their reasons-that's the most Townish response they can give you- then debate the reasons and explain why you did what you did.
If they say "you seem fine to me now" then let them be but remember it. If they try for you again throw it back in their face. At worst you'll kill the argument there. At best you'll make them snap and you'll start seeing the Scum behind the accusation.
Townies that accuse you have reasons that seem solid to them. Mafia KNOWS you are town and, thus, never have any reason that they truly believe in. Thus the person with solid reasoning why you should die is someone you need to convince and reason with. The person with poor reasoning needs to be debated and shown why they are bad evidence and why other evidence looks better. The folks with reasoning, reasoning that contradicts, or reasoning that constantly changes deserve the Noose.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 11:57:10 am
When a random vote is put on you, ignore it or just have fun with it. Don't take it seriously and don't act on it if you don't want people to suspect you. Random vote is like a game of Stare: first to flinch loses.
If you flinch, expect suspicion. It's not the end of the world, though.
If someone questions you, answer their question fully. You can throw a question yourself but avoid accusations. Questions are a Good Thing for town so punishing people for it by bearing down on them isn't helpful, even if the questions are against you.
If someone accuses you, especially with a vote, explain your side of it. Remember that, chances are, it's a townie that's scumhunting. They don't know you're town and are just looking for odd behavior. Just make it clear that what you are doing isn't odd "no, saying "It's not odd" doesn't work. :P". Either they will bring new issues up or fade away. If the former, just keep at it till all issues are taken care of.
However, don't let it derail you from your own questioning/accusations. You should be able to answer someone else's question WHILE listening to someone else's answer to your question.
If people are voting for you with either no reason or for someone else's reason poke at them for it. Don't let a person mindlessly vote for you. Even if each person doesn't have their own reasons, they should, at least, look as if they did the research themselves and are not just following someone. Meanwhile, keep addressing any issues brought up. Feel free to, at times, ask for a clear "Why do you think I'm scum" post.
Don't consider people defending you as 'automatic town'. Remember, Townies don't know who you are. Mafia KNOW you are town. If someone seems to be mindlessly defending you, that's NOT a good thing.
Lastly, if it's clear you will be lynched, before the day ends, do a deep look at each of the players. NOW is the time to forget the debate on you and look.. really look at everyone. Scum tend to get eager when someone is about to die and start to act scummy. Some mysteriously hide. Others push with horrible logic. Some defend you with horrible or no good reason. Call it out, put out everything you see. Get the word out NOW! Don't focus on the ones attacking you. Focus on EVERYONE.
Will it save you? No. However, once you die, everything you say will be given the green light since they will know you aren't scum. Statements that got the "he's saying that because he's scum" get cleared as being honest. The #1 best thing out there is if you die Day 1 and, because of your posts, the scum die with you day 2 and 3.
Sometimes it pays to take one for the team..
Post by: Eduren on September 23, 2009, 12:06:10 pm
Will it save you? No. However, once you die, everything you say will be given the green light since they will know you aren't scum. Statements that got the "he's saying that because he's scum" get cleared as being honest. The #1 best thing out there is if you die Day 1 and, because of your posts, the scum die with you day 2 and 3.
This is good advice, but you should remember that even Townies can be wrong and just because he was proven innocent does not mean that he was proven right. While yes his points may be more valid, that does not mean that you should insta-lynch his enemies.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 12:09:54 pm
For the one about to fall though, it's the best you can do for the town.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 23, 2009, 01:46:47 pm
Can I get critique of my play by any chance?
From my limited experience as a beginner Mafia player, I think you played excellently.
Day 1, however, you gave an enormously suspicious tell, when you were happily talking about arranging lynches. I don't remember the particular post, but it was in response to the Free Beer and major_sephiroth pissing match. The general gist was, "I think at least one of them is scum. We can safely lynch both of them today and tomorrow, and be in good standing come Day 3."
That really made me suspicious, but all your other behavior didn't make me suspicious at all. I was surprised you were the mafia at the end! (Partly because I forgot about that tell in the course of the game.) So, I guess, congratulations.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 23, 2009, 01:51:13 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 07:30:39 pm
You started off with random voting, then was one of the first to start the investigations. That's a Good Thing.
The 'you are rolefishing' was a stretch, however, there wasn't much of a reason to ask for a roleclaim here. The only answer would've been Townie, which would show nothing. The "we're sure you aren't townie so you just claimed scum" was a VERY bad stretch. You didn't explain why he wasn't a townie. Yes, he answered the question poorly, but that's not enough to lynch: only enough to keep more pressure on them. Being overly 100% sure of your lynch being scum is also dangerous:
I did the same thing. I had accused two people of being mafia based on the information I pulled. I was somewhat sure of on, but I was "100% sure" of the other. I was so sure that, when tugged, I gave up a true, blue mafia lynch (the 'somewhat sure') to go after someone I KNEW was mafia.
Turned out the one I was gunning for was the Doctor.
Also, the one that 'nugged' me which caused me to change focus: it was the other mafia.
There's "you smell funny" which should bring about questions/accusations. There's "I'm ready to see you die" which should bring about the demand to lynch. Then there's "I KNOW YOU are scum!". When you get there, you need to pull back because you're lynching a townie.
The point to aim for is "Even if there's a chance at it, I can't see him as anything else. I'm ready to bet our chances that he's scum." Note there's still the 'shadow of a doubt there'. You keep that so that if your argument starts to falter by someone else's debate, you'll be willing to pull back. Of course, so long as your argument stands you push to kill. Never, though, get to the point where Nothing will convince you otherwise.
Honestly, that shouldn't have killed you, but by then the mafia got the town to lock on you and Seph. That way, either the town follows you and kills a townie, or goes against you and...kills a townie.
You see what he did there? ;)
Btw, the bit about debating Sonearage's RL situation isn't helpful, but just distracting. How a person treats their RL self does NOT determine how their Mafia game face will be. Sonearage could be a 70 year old male body builder with 5 mistresses and it says NOTHING about whether she is scum or town.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 07:46:22 pm
Actually: This is to ALL
Go read Eduren during Day 1. Now, you don't need to mimic him, but I'll say this: his actions are the textbook example of Pro-Town play. He randomvoted early on, poking at people to find their responses. He turned to accusations when he found something, yet he was ready to question and comment on things that caught him strange. The result is clear: he had a strong accusation for Daikron and only turned away when the game was nearing the end and someone else was going to get lynched.
That's why he died Night 1. He was primed to take out one of the mafia.
Also note, to somewhat contradict the warning about trusted a dead man's text, had Eduren's posts been read you would've saw his push on Daikron, which, if pushed to lynch, would've netted you a mafia. "Killing off your accuser" is an old scumtell.. so old that most mafia focus on not performing it. Still, sometimes it nets results.
If there was anything I could say, it would be that putting one more post saying that "although you will vote to get a lynch going, you still feel that there's something wrong about Daikron". At worst, it would get the town to focus and keep up with your pressure. At best, it would panic the mafia into keeping you alive and trying to nullify you, which would help you find them better.
Post by: Eduren on September 23, 2009, 08:01:33 pm
I voted you to get you to speak up on a subject, you did so and said you had 2 votes on you already. I checked it out and it was true so I unvoted. Anymore questions?
Yes, who is your partner?
WHO DOES NUMBER 2 WORK FOR?
Wow. Your comment finally makes sense Pandar (other than the allusion to Austin Powers). Did you mean to do this?
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 08:41:31 pm
First off, funny thing: your random vote hit Pandasenic. ;)
No, you weren't meant to catch him then. Just funny to see.
What was more telling: Daikron attacked you for it.
Note again: Diakron (scum) attacked you for random voting someone else (who was scum).
Defending someone is considered by some a very small scumtell. Thus grats: your first post pulled a scumtell out of the mafia. That's like getting Ace/King as your first two cards in blackjack.
The problem: You let Panda and Diak pressure you. It was the Random Vote Stage. That you had no reason to vote was NATURAL. The attacks were unfounded and they were just leading you along for the kill. If someone pushes you for random voting, push back for being paranoid.
Sidenote: note that the ones that are accusing you are BOTH of the mafia. See what they did there? ;)
In any case, when you posted again, the day was about over so there wasn't too much to go on from there.
Day 2 Toony grabbed on the case done against you. Again, it was unfounded due to it being random vote. However, while you were honest, I don't believe you knew that what you did was Right and that they were Wrong for attacking you for it (note, Toony's quote used for the accusation was still vote hoping)
After that, it was just a matter of defending yourself. In truth, without knowing about why the random vote was proper, there wasn't too much for you to do. Along with that, the mafia had the town firm in their hands.
Thus, you did as well as you could with what you had and were VERY lucky. The problem is that that 'luck' put you right into a battle with the mafia and no one noticed you were getting slaughtered by them.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 09:44:03 pm
Nice random voting to start, although I'm a sucker for comedy in the early day.
A thing on your FOS on eduren. Eduren is right: Aggression is a town tell, not a mafia tell. Townies are bloodthirsty and desperate to kill in the day since it's key to their victory. Mafia don't REALLY need someone to die in the daytime. The game could go No Lynch every day and the mafia would be all the happier for it. All they really care about is being just aggressive enough to avoid people killing them.
Thus if someone is aggressive, that's a town tell unless they are using horrible logic.
Now although you argued similarly towards Free Beer, you were more correct in pointing out that his aggression is showing signs of tunnelvision (not looking at anyone else nor willing to listen to other people's arguments).
Oh, and don't do the "you'll attack me for this" comments. I tried that and nearly got lynched. It makes people more suspicious since it pulls attention towards yourself. You could've dropped the first half of Sentence 1 and the last sentence and you would've been fine.
Otherwise, you struck hard on Free Beer. Yes he was town, but you had good reason to accuse and lynch him and, sometimes, that's the most pro-town you can be.
Day 2, you went risky and defended Jetsquirrel as a town that couldn't defend himself. Good catch because you were right. Note that the one saying that you had the wrong idea was the Godfather. You see what he did there. ;)
However, the mafia had the town taken in. Even your focus on Seph was part of their plan. To break out you had to do a scan on EVERYONE in the town, not just the most suspicious. Easier said than done though. Just trying to derail Jet's argument was good though.
Day 3, you caught on to Daikron and pushed on him. You didn't unvote first so you vote didn't count, but a moot point since by then the mafia finished off their plan and the game.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 10:11:10 pm
I'll start off here: the pokes against your RL self were horrible reasons to accuse you of being scum. As I said in another's analysis, you could be lying through your teeth about your RL situation and still be town. Lying in the game is a very VERY anti-town action. Your RL self, though, has little to do with the game.
In any case
You random voted fine. Do note that putting a second vote on a person can bring some suspicion but if you take it lightly, you shouldn't face too many problems with it. Switching the vote to Eduren helped to show that.
One thing about your vote on Daikron, more pressure. Once you start voting with a cause, make them talk. Ask questions like "Why DID you pull off of Eduren, just because he asked you a question?" or "So if he's not scum, who are you after now?" or even "why are you using my homelife to distract us from your scumminess?". Even if the question is weak, your goal is to get him talking.. defending, emotional. If you can make him panic over "What is your favorite color?" then that's perfectly fine.
When you came back the debate was on and the town was taking sides. When I see you write "Who do I vote for" I take it to mean "I'm not sure which one is scum!" Your gut was right: neither of them were. Only feel confident when you can firmly say "Yah, I believe he's scum". Consider it a dangerous sign for the town when you're left having to choose to vote for someone you aren't sure on. There wasn't much to do Day 1 from there but when Day 2 comes around, come in knowing that the town is being manipulated and a change of plan is needed.
Day 2, you had a strong reason for going after Major. Yes, he was town BUT your reasoning was sound and you were willing to give them out when asked. That's pro-town. Major's 'brush off' remarks afterwards were NOT a good defense against you so holding to him was fine.
Day 3 it sounds like you started seeing him differently. You'll notice that a person's behavior can tend to fit in as either town or scum, even if it appears 'pro-scummy'. That's when you have to try to figure out the person behind the game. If his hyperdefense seems to be genuine, there is a chance he could be just a Paranoid townie (which he was). When you see that, look back and go "if I put aside his hyperdefense, what else is there?" If you have nothing, start scanning at other people.. see if someone else catches your eye.
However, by then, the mafia used that hyperdefense to their advantage. Daikron and Pandasenic played Good Cop, Bad Cop just to give a reason to dump both votes on you while Major jumped on you in a OMGUS way. There wasn't much of a way to break that.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 10:36:37 pm
Your early Day 1 leaves me saying this; You take things too seriously.
When you voted on org for random voting, I thought you were being comical. "OMG a random vote against random voting" Your unvote, though, showed that you were actually trying to attack with suspicions. The push on Jet confirmed it. Very dangerous. ULTRA DANGEROUS because your attack on Jet was a defense against your scum partner. That's not only a scumtell but a link tying the two of you together. Remember that random voting is light hearted and easy with lots of silly votes for silly reasons. Keep your tone like that until you see someone doing something 'wrong'.
The push on Eduren was fine, contrary to Eduren's speach. His questions were, actually, just an attempt to shake you. The idea is that townies would take the shake and keep on accusing while scum would run away. You pulled out, showing that you were being defensive. That's what caused the folks to go after you. When you accuse, keep on them. Be aggressive. Answer the questions then keep the pressure on them. Refer to yourself as little as possible.
If you read Sonearage's analysis you'll see me say that your pushes on her RL were poor reasons to accuse her. The good thing is that your goal ISN'T REALLY to mark her scum but to get the pressure off of you and it worked pretty well. I think panda kept the pressure on you to make sure the situation wasn't left in the air (to be picked up later). It was a gamble but your desire to answer questions and explain your cause helped ruin their arguments.
The bad joke at the end is...well. I'll put it like this: it made you look bad, which saved you.
I can show it like this.. what if I was playing and, first post, I say "I AM MAFIA!!!!!!"
First instict is for people to bandwagon yes.. but eventually, people would say "What sort of person would do something like that!? Meh, he's just a fool" then walk away.
That was what your joke did. It made everyone roll their eyes, say "meh, he's just playing wrong" and walk away. Odd how that works, huh?
After that, you voted for Free Beer with a decent reason. The timing could've caused some suspicion but no one noticed. Just be careful to try not to be that 3 or 4th vote unless you are willing to take some heat later on.
Day 2, you and Panda were running the town to aim at two people, using Major as a centerpiece. That lets you be more bold and do things like accuse two people at the same time. The town just ate it up. You were also good at catching missteps the others would do, which is pro-town.
Day 3, you and Panda complimented each other well. You pushed hard on Sonearage to keep her defensive (the argument was flimsy but whatever works) and the early pressure on Major caused him to join you in finishing off Sonearage. People started to get suspicious but with Major with your support you were able to ride it all the way through.
So overall, when you are calm you defend yourself well and are good with the attacks. You need to clean up your early game to make it less hostile and make sure not to be cowed by counter attacks. Remember, you are supposed to be a reckless townie, full of rightousness and aggression. When you bite someone, make them GIVE YOU a reason to want to let go and don't let their petty kicks distract you from their throat.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 10:37:24 pm
Alright, with that out of the way, I'll move on. Starting up Beginner 3.
Post by: Eduren on September 23, 2009, 10:47:43 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 23, 2009, 10:50:27 pm
i go into each game with a fresh view of everyone and judge them anew, but most people look at the past. I believed that there was a cop and a doctor all along (play it the hardest way is the only way) but did not know panda was my partner in crime till after i defended him lol. (i had forgotten)
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 24, 2009, 04:18:34 am
I'd bet hard cash that if Free Beer flips town, the mafia will leave major_sephiroth alive to incriminate him.
We have a world of WIFOM ahead of us.
Also, many experienced players consider LyLo to be a flawed policy, with that article obviously only having been touched by its supporters. While that applies more to games with roles that retaliate on death or when targeted, it still remains the case that major_sephiroth may be a townie trying to bait the mafia or a cop/doctor failing massively at being inconspicuous.
Or m_s could be a Goon and Free Beer could be a townie who's right. Or they could both be scum, forcing a day 1 bus to try to clear whichever of them survives.
m_s, I won't blame you for the OMGUS vote on Free Beer, just for reference.
ROFL TERRIBLE TYPO
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 24, 2009, 04:40:42 am
Post by: Sonearage on September 24, 2009, 10:16:50 am
I didn't know you could read minds! :o