Bay 12 Games Forum
Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 10:44:23 pm
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So begins YET another Beginner's Mafia. We will need 8 players that haven't played in a mass of mafias already (a few is fine though) and 2 people that will act as IC.
sidenote: If you are IC, feel free to play the game like you normally do, but be ready to explain about terms, game theory, and other questions.
I'd also appreciate it if a few others came in as commentators. How I envision it: at the start and end of each day, they sent a PM to me telling their views on the game: how everyone looks, and mistakes, ideas on how they would act during the situation. At the end of the game, the PMs will be posted.
The Rules:
You may NOT PM to anyone except to me or from one mafia member to another. Furthermore, ALL discussion about this game, even indirectly, can only occur in this thread.
All votes must be colored red. To avoid confusion, only use that color when you are voting for someone. You must also Unvote before you vote for another. That was an issue last game so I'll stress again, if you do NOT unvote, your new vote will NOT count. No Lynch votes are allowed.
Days will last for 3 days or until the conversation dies down. Nights will last 24 hours or until all night roles have been sent to me. The deadline will be posted regularly and I retain the ability to hurry the deadline for inactivity or extend the deadline if enough request it. Note that any deadline that falls on a weekend will be pushed back to the following Monday.
Upon deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If there is a tie, there will be no lynch.
Once dead, you may not speak or PM anyone about the game, living or otherwise. A Dead chat will be made available.
Mafia will be given their own Chat to speak to one another once roles have been sent.
Bolded sentences can be used to catch my attention. Italics used by me is flavor and is just there to be interesting.
Lastly, do NOT quote my PM text and do NOT edit your posts (you can double post if you need to)
You can, of course, ask any questions you may have.
Roles:
Townsperson: The basic town role. Your goal is to help the town lynch all of the mafia players. You win as long as the town wins.
Mafia: The basic antagonist role. You and the other Mafia players work together to kill off the townspeople. During the day, you pretend to be normal townspeople and voting on who is to be lynched. During the night, you will tell me the name of the player you wish to kill along with which of you will kill them. You win once you have greater then or equal to the number of town aligned players.
Mafia Roleblocker: Similar to the mafia. However, in nights when you are not the one assigned to kill, you may choose one person for yourself. The person you choose will be unable to perform their night action.
Cop: An honest cop, he may choose one player each night to investigate. He will then learn if that player is Mafia or Town.
Doctor: The doctor may choose one player each night to protect from the mafia's night kill.
Players:
1. Vector
2. Diakron
3. Tehstefan
4. Major_Sephiroth
5. Dr. Johbson
6. Criptfeind, who is replacing Sonearage
7. Apostolic Nihilist, who is replacing Jetsquirrel
8. ExKirby
9. RedWarrior0
ICs:
1. Eduren
2. Webadict
Subs:
1.
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I guess I'll IC this one.
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one more of these and i will consider myself IC right now i feel kinda semi-experienced. these are great learning mafias :)
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Throwing my hat in the ring! I read your summaries in the other thread, and just couldn't pass up this chance.
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In because I still suck at Mafias.
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Needs me to IC? I can yell REALLY REALLY LOUDLY!
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Yeah, even though I'm playing in this one I think you're the best IC we've had thus far... so come on in and tell us we're all Doing It Wrong :)
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I'd love to IC, but we already have many volunteers. I think webby would be a good one this time.
I would say Diakron still doesn't count as IC yet, in my humble opinion; he's getting there, though.
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IC ME.
IN.
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I want to get in on this. I've been lurking this forum for about two months now, plus I played this game a few times in actual real life, but I think I should learn more anyway.
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Woo to the incoming :D
Though I now have 4 people who want to IC. That's too many: the poor novices wouldn't stand a chance. For now, I'll have two while hoping I get enough novices to make both be able to fit in. Toony and Panda, mind offering some between day commentary?
Edit: If you guys have any questions at all, from things like "What's WIFOM" to "OMG HOW DO YOU PLAY!" feel free to ask. This game is meant to be both training and introduction to forum based mafia. Even if you've played the live version, the forum version has a good deal of quirks that can leave you confused.
While we wait, feel free to read over the other Beginner's we've had so far: Beginner 1 (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=39457.0)and Beginner 2 (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41493.0)
The topmost post in these forums also holds a tutorial about how mafia is played.
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Great, because I have two questions that come up alot. What does Lylo stand for, and what does WIFOM stand for as well?
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I can answer those, as a wiki walk told me. A Lylo is a situation where the town must lynch a scum, or otherwise they will lose the game, perhaps though nightkills, or simply because they won't have a majority anymore.
WIFOM stands for wine in front of me, basically when you try and outguess outguessing someone. Normally categorized by saying such things as "But what if thats jsut what he wants us to think?" It doesn't get you very far, I know, I've been guilty of it.
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Tehst got both of those right.
WIFOM is one of the mafia's most devastating tools do to the confusion it provides. A quicky example:
Webadict(town): Tehstefan is being pretty helpful. That tends to be pro-town
Litia(scum): Are you sure that's why he's doing that?
Take note the thoughts that run through your head from there. Chances are in goes like this:
'well, I guess he could be just trying to act helpful to hide his scumminess. But what if he's being honest.. but what if that's his plan...'
You're now stuck in an endless loop of logic.
It's VERY easy to get stuck in WIFOM or accidentally hit someone with it. The mafia, though, will try to get the entire town stuck in it since confusion and misdirection = mafia win. If you can slip in the words "That's what he wants us to think", you're in WIFOM and it's time to pull back and look at what evidence you DO have.
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Ah, perfect, thanks.
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oh, you already got the players :'( :'(
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*points to the sign ups* I'm still accepting players.
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yay!!!
I'm in!
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Ok. Remember what was talked about in general discussion, I'll place a limit down to 10 players. As such, I can take in 2 more.
After that, anyone else can request to be a Sub. That way, if someone needs to be replaced, someone who is already interested can be there to step in. You do not need to be a new player to be a sub since by then, it's more important to get someone active back in the game than to worry about skill levels.
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count me in again i'd guess
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Woo to the incoming :D
Though I now have 4 people who want to IC. That's too many: the poor novices wouldn't stand a chance. For now, I'll have two while hoping I get enough novices to make both be able to fit in. Toony and Panda, mind offering some between day commentary?
I can do that. You mean talk about what's happening between days? YEAH.
Panda will be the serious one.
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Could you set up maybe a Spectator Chat? It could be fun to watch and discuss with other spectators what you think is happening.
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I think a commentary chat (possibly merged with the dead chat) for people to review after might be spiffeh.
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Seeing as I haven't joined too many mafias, I'm in.
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I'll provide limited commentary. Paranormal 10 is starting up soon, and I don't want to get involved in more than one mafia. They suck up all my time.
So I'll comment for now.
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In. I wanted to be in on the last one, but it was too late
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Alright. I should be able to start assigning and writing the roles tomorrow night. The sign ups will be open until I start.
Spectator chat might work out better than pms. It'll also be the dead chat. Anyone that asked to be a commentator or simply wish for it will have access to the chat. once the game starts, PM me and I'll provide it to you as well.
Also, I would like to have a few people willing to be a Substitute. Note that you cannot have access to Spectator chat and be a sub, though.
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*Knock knock* goes the gavel, held by Head Merchant Dakarian.
"Before we begin our meeting of the Merchant's Guild, I would like to make an announcement."
"For years our Guild has been in good relations with the commercial factions of the Litia Family. This alliance has been profitable for both sides.
However, the Family has come to me with grave news: their leader, Pandarsenic, has died of fowl play. If you remember, it was Godfather Pandarsenic that established the alliance between us.
With his loss, the Family has declared the contract with the Guild null and void."
Outcries and mutters fill the room, requiring Dakarian to swing the gavel to regain order.
"Do not be alarmed. I know the Mafia's rule reguarding "leftover witnesses". I am currently speaking to various members of the Family to try to reestablish ties. Rest assured that no harm will come to any of you."
With those words, the meeting finished with little incident. Afterwards, the members of the Merchant's Guild left to rest. It was smart planning to host the meeting in the ritzy 5 star hotel, the BM Elephant. Eagerly, everyone left to enjoy the wonderful service and lush bedrooms.
That was yesterday.
That was before the Head Merchant was found in his room, beaten and hanged on the front door. The act could not have been done alone-the evidence hints at it being a two-man job.
The rule of "leftover witnesses" is simple: once the Mafia cuts ties with you, they are to leave no one alive.
The hotel security ignore your requests for an investigation and avoid going near the Head Merchant's room. Although the exits are available, there isn't much point: the Litia Family can track anyone who attempts to escape anywhere in the country.
In a stroke of genius or insanity, a few hotel guards were paid off-it's good to be a group full of rich merchants- and ordered to guard the exists: allow no one in or out. Since the guild booked the entire hotel, the only people who matter are the guild members....
...and the two that killed the Head Merchant.
Unsure of what to do, you walk back to the meeting room.
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The game has now started.
Deadline: Tuesday 29th, 11am EST
Note: Still accepting subs and spectators. Note that you cannot be both.
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Pandasenic?
Fail.
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MODKILL: Pandarsenic
@Everyone
YOU.
SAW.
NOTHING!!!
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*Sgt. Schultz voice* I SEEN NOTHINZK!
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ExKirby, do you think that dakarian was justified in modkilling Pandarsenic?
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MY SKIN IS DYING SLOWLY AHH.
Ahem. Hello all.
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So, there are two mafia members, unless I'm an idiot. Shouldn't be too bad.
RedWarrior0, you are notorious for not having enough time to post, or whatever.. Make some, mwahahah!
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I think major_sephiroth is suspicious because he's acting like a Nazi on a TV show. Who better to commit murders?
Everyone, this is the RVS. This is where we randomly vote each other to gauge reaction. So do it. We try to look for scumtells with these and everything else.
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Dr. Johbson, why are new players always scum?
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Makes them feel special, of course!
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Makes them feel special, of course!
:o
GOOD ONE! LOL
unvote. Sonearage are you scum? this is your second game so your new too...
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Diakron why the heat on the newbies? Its not very nice you know!
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Diakron why the heat on the newbies? Its not very nice you know!
its the RVS and i feel that the newbies are being left out of my favorite part of the game /sarcasm off
don't worry your next stefan
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To confirm: yes, there are 2 mafia members.
It wasn't easy to plant that into the flavor text this time :P. Now that I think about it, there were better ways of doing it.. but oh well.
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unvote. Sonearage are you scum? this is your second game so your new too...
Diakron: Sorry, I'm not better luck next time.
Webadict:I think major_sephiroth is suspicious because he's acting like a Nazi on a TV show. Who better to commit murders?
Why do you think that? :)
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Dr. Johbson, why are new players always scum?
FoS. Privy to some information the rest of us don't have, Diakron?
Jetsquirrel, what is the first color that comes to mind?
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Blue! Wait, no, Yelloooowww!!!....
..Sorry, I had to do that, even though that wasn't aimed at me.
Yeah, also I don't get why what I said about specialness was so funny.
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Vector, why did you not have any votes on you until I came along?
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Vector, why did you not have any votes on you until I came along?
Because I hadn't opened my fat mouth much and am easy to overlook.
What do you think about Diakron's little slip, by the way?
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greeen
dunno why tho
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Sonerage, he said it was the RANDOM VOTE STAGE. He doesn't need a reason.
Web, hehehehehe Hogan's Heroes! Schultz is awesome though, he pretends he doesn't see what Hogan and that does, so he is the least nazi german guy there!
Also, Diakron's slip is a WORLD of WIFOM!
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Quickly, we must overanalyze Diakron's language!
He must be town, no scum would do this!
but what if thats just what he wants you to think?
But what if its not? *head explodes*
So, Jetsquirrel, who's your random vote?
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unvote. Sonearage are you scum? this is your second game so your new too...
Diakron: Sorry, I'm not better luck next time.
Webadict:I think major_sephiroth is suspicious because he's acting like a Nazi on a TV show. Who better to commit murders?
Why do you think that? :)
Yes, what major_sephiroth said.
Eduren, why aren't you participating in the town's discussion? Wouldn't that be something an IC should do?
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Well I've been waiting for Kirby to respond to me.
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Come, now, Red. Speak to me.
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Come, now, Red. Speak to me.
About what?
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Uhh, I don't know, I didn't expect you to say anything. Explain why you make happy man sad. ;D = :'(
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My avvie showed up and killed someone.
Back at you: If you were cop, who would you investigate?
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What a looming question to ask. Seems like a lose/lose situation for me, too, if I answer it.
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What a looming question to ask. Seems like a lose/lose situation for me, too, if I answer it.
How so?
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What a looming question to ask. Seems like a lose/lose situation for me, too, if I answer it.
How so?
I'd like to know that too.
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Well I've been waiting for Kirby to respond to me.
Oh really? That doesn't mean don't participate.
What a looming question to ask. Seems like a lose/lose situation for me, too, if I answer it.
How so?
I'd like to know that too.
I think he means that then the scum has a good target, based on his answer.
Like, if he says, "I'd investigate Webadict," he'd put a target on my head, while at the same time making a lynch target of himself the next Day.
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Indeed. Besides that, at the moment, such information helps the scum more then anyone else. The more they have to think, they better, after all.
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Indeed. Besides that, at the moment, such information helps the scum more then anyone else. The more they have to think, they better, after all.
I think he wants your reasoning more than your actual choice. I still think it's a dumb question.
Here's a better question: Would it be a good idea to kill me if you're scum? Why or why not?
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Redwarrior, I must ask, whats the reason for asking that question? It does seem rather loaded.
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Unvote. Jetsquirrel, that's a good answer. I don't think you're scum for the moment. However, you need to start trying to ask questions--not silly questions, but pertinent ones--and figure out what's happening.
Indeed. Besides that, at the moment, such information helps the scum more then anyone else. The more they have to think, they better, after all.
So your plan is to just sit around and not figure anything out, Doctor? That is the way the town dies, my scummy friend. Start scum-hunting or prepare to be lynched. Ask constructive questions and stop running around!
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It was hypothetical, like all the "if you were (role), who would be your first target?" ones. I wasn't saying, "You're cop, who are you investigating tonight? Tell me now."
web should know that's what the questions mean. I'm gonna have to unvote and instead vote webadict. Investigating you puts a target on your head?
Also, FoS Dr. Johbson for the reasons Vector voted him.
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Hmm, that does have a ring of truth to it. Still, it seems better suited on asking him his reads, than rather what he'd do if he were town. It may be early, but I figure I'd best ask this question.
What reads have you gotten off people, be it scum, or townie?
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Indeed. Besides that, at the moment, such information helps the scum more then anyone else. The more they have to think, they better, after all.
I think he wants your reasoning more than your actual choice. I still think it's a dumb question.
Here's a better question: Would it be a good idea to kill me if you're scum? Why or why not?
Better question? That one seems much worse. If you end up dead right after I say it would be a good idea, most eyes would probably be on me.
But, to answer your question, if you indeed mean it the way Webadict explained, I would inspect those who I suspect the least of being mafia. Never know who might blow your mind.
PREPOSTEDIT-
Unvote. Jetsquirrel, that's a good answer. I don't think you're scum for the moment. However, you need to start trying to ask questions--not silly questions, but pertinent ones--and figure out what's happening.
Indeed. Besides that, at the moment, such information helps the scum more then anyone else. The more they have to think, they better, after all.
So your plan is to just sit around and not figure anything out, Doctor? That is the way the town dies, my scummy friend. Start scum-hunting or prepare to be lynched. Ask constructive questions and stop running around!
A bit quick of a vote, I feel, but I suppose it really is just changing your random vote. I am collecting what I can before I bother asking questions. Much can be learnt without asking anything.
But, if you want me to start asking people random stuff, I guess I can.
I'm *slightly* wondering about webadict, why he chose to help me understand, rather than pin me down and beat the knowledge out of me. But, it is a beginner's mafia, so I dismissed that.
On the other hand, I am curious as to the number of people who already think me suspicious. It feels as if I'm being targeted for an easy..Er, target, or whatever.
Now, my question. Why did you abandon your first random vote, Vector, to pursue me, when you hadn't pressed Jetsquirrel at all?
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Dismissed that feeling. *
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Because I read through Beginner's 2, and Jetsquirrel is being Jetsquirrel. He's an unconstructive newb, and I'm willing to give him a day to start talking before I bring out the big accusations.
Plus, he answered the question perfectly. As such, I unvoted and went after you upon noticing that you were being ridiculous, unhelpful, and acting like a scumbucket.
At the moment, I'm going for you + Diakron for the scum-team. Seems apt.
I'm also interested in ExKirby's thoughts on all this, when he finally signs on.
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Indeed. Besides that, at the moment, such information helps the scum more then anyone else. The more they have to think, they better, after all.
You have to understand. There is a huge information gap between us and the mafia. They know who is town and who is mafia, we don't. The flow of information, no matter how damning it is to possible power roles, is vital to our success. If we avoid "dangerous" and "pointed" questions then we'll have a tough time scumhunting.
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Hmm, that does have a ring of truth to it. Still, it seems better suited on asking him his reads, than rather what he'd do if he were town. It may be early, but I figure I'd best ask this question.
What reads have you gotten off people, be it scum, or townie?
I'm not sure if that was directed at me, or the entire town, but either way, I shall answer it. So far, Vector strikes me as a little suspicious, (see my last post, I don't like to repeat myself) but he could just be very thoroughly scum hunting. Redwarrior's question was very vague, I got the feeling something was behind it, so I am aware of him too.
Webadict's question for me, seemed to be more scum hunting than Red's, so, I'm not too suspicious of him. You yourself seem to be scum hunting as well.
Eduren, I have very little thoughts about at the moment, seeing as how he hasn't posted too much.
ANOTHERPREPOSTEDITDAMMIT- Oh, speak of the devil, he just spoke. Well, you do have a point, Eduren, but I still think what I do.
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It was hypothetical, like all the "if you were (role), who would be your first target?" ones. I wasn't saying, "You're cop, who are you investigating tonight? Tell me now."
web should know that's what the questions mean. I'm gonna have to unvote and instead vote webadict. Investigating you puts a target on your head?
Also, FoS Dr. Johbson for the reasons Vector voted him.
No no no. I'm saying his answer puts a target on whoever's head he says. Unless that target is scum, since that target may very well be investigated for the reasons explained. Therefore, he felt trapped by the question.
And I don't beat people up... on the first Day. Once you know the basics, then I assault you. You don't beat up a baby. You wait for it to grow up and then you beat it up... Yeah...
Because I read through Beginner's 2, and Jetsquirrel is being Jetsquirrel. He's an unconstructive newb, and I'm willing to give him a day to start talking before I bring out the big accusations.
Plus, he answered the question perfectly. As such, I unvoted and went after you upon noticing that you were being ridiculous, unhelpful, and acting like a scumbucket.
At the moment, I'm going for you + Diakron for the scum-team. Seems apt.
I'm also interested in ExKirby's thoughts on all this, when he finally signs on.
Vector... DON'T look for scum teams. Look for scum tells. They're more obvious, and better to look for, given that there are no known scum as of yet. You look for teams afterwards, when you know a scum.
I'm here to help. And if I feel like that helps then I'm gonna do it. Just like when I yell at people. I WILL yell at you, if I have to. But, nothing warrants that yet.
My question is legitimate, and the outcome doesn't come close to anything. I was simply analyzing. If I'm scum, and some asks me who I'm going to kill, would I tell him the answer or lie? A true townie never has to lie about an answer. A mafia tries to look inconspicuous, so he may have to lie in order to do it. That way, if you answer my question, and I feel like it's either trying to make you look townie or a lie, it may show. So, that's why I would like an answer.
And finally, eduren, you showed up! Unvote for now.
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It was hypothetical, like all the "if you were (role), who would be your first target?" ones. I wasn't saying, "You're cop, who are you investigating tonight? Tell me now."
web should know that's what the questions mean. I'm gonna have to unvote and instead vote webadict. Investigating you puts a target on your head?
Also, FoS Dr. Johbson for the reasons Vector voted him.
No no no. I'm saying his answer puts a target on whoever's head he says. Unless that target is scum, since that target may very well be investigated for the reasons explained. Therefore, he felt trapped by the question.
Okay. I get what your point was. Unvote
I'm not quite sure who the question was for. From a scum perspective, I would kill you if you were town, as you are experienced and can read people well. Of course, the doctor might protect you. If I was scum and so were you, then I wouldn't kill you, naturally.
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Vector... DON'T look for scum teams. Look for scum tells. They're more obvious, and better to look for, given that there are no known scum as of yet. You look for teams afterwards, when you know a scum.
Ah, I'm not looking for scum-teams. I feel like I have found two scum independently of each other. I will be still watching everyone, of course... I just happen to suspect those two in particular.
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Webadict does shiny better light on the matter of the questions I didn't answer. Suppose I don't have much to lose, so I shall answer them now.
Who would I inspect, if I were a cop? Webadict, for sure. He is, indeed, an expert, and I would need to know his status ASAP.
This probably answers the other question too, I would indeed try to get rid of webadict ASAP. However, I would have to keep in mind, that getting him lynched might be an even better idea. If I believed I could stay alive and un-scummy-ish, I would believe he would be a perfect person to have lynched, preferable latter then sooner.
Well, I hope that helped some of you. I personally think I look suspicious now, but you did ask for what I thought.
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Actually, that makes you more townie in my eyes. You didn't try and futz around the issue, you stated plainly what you would do, and it made sense. Best of all, you didn't seem to lie, so that's points for you.
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The meeting room is a bristle of activity. What appears, to the naked ear, as useless finger pointing is, in truth, a form of barter. The merchants, excelling in speech and manipulation, are bartering against each other, with their lives as the initial offering
Vote Count:
ExKirby[1]: Eduren
RedWarrior0[1]:Dr. Johbson
Sonearage[1]: Daikron
Diakron[1]:Tehstefan
Webadict[1]: Sonearage
Dr.Johbson[1]:Vector
Deadline: Tuesday, 29th, 11 am EST
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Sorry I haven't posted, I haven't had much of a chance. Anyway, random vote... dang, I forgot the memberlist! Oh well, I need more dirt anyway.
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Sorry I haven't posted, I haven't had much of a chance. Anyway, random vote... dang, I forgot the memberlist! Oh well, I need more dirt anyway.
...First page?
Webadict does shiny better light on the matter of the questions I didn't answer. Suppose I don't have much to lose, so I shall answer them now.
Who would I inspect, if I were a cop? Webadict, for sure. He is, indeed, an expert, and I would need to know his status ASAP.
This probably answers the other question too, I would indeed try to get rid of webadict ASAP. However, I would have to keep in mind, that getting him lynched might be an even better idea. If I believed I could stay alive and un-scummy-ish, I would believe he would be a perfect person to have lynched, preferable latter then sooner.
Well, I hope that helped some of you. I personally think I look suspicious now, but you did ask for what I thought.
Meh, I wouldn't put any more suspicion on you if I died than anyone else. I think you're less likely scum as well, because you DIDN'T completely think through this problem. Normally, a beginner is nervous to either answer this question or OVER-answers the question as scum.
So, if I die, you're not going to be looking at "I would kill webadict as scum." You should be looking at what happened the Day before. Who was voting for whom and why? Look at what's happening that Day. Is there something strange? Your intuition is also good to go on, but it's not always right.
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what did i miss?
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Me firin' ma lazer at Dr.Johbson.
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May I ask why?
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Whoops, unvote. I thought you didn't post.
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Upgrade: From here on I plan on posting those who aren't voting as well. New days will also include a list of who is still alive and the deaths of the others.
Vote Count:
ExKirby[1]: Eduren
RedWarrior0[1]:Dr. Johbson
Sonearage[1]: Daikron
Diakron[1]:Tehstefan
Webadict[1]: Sonearage
Dr.Johbson[1]:Vector
Not voting: Major_Sephiroth, Jetsquirrel, ExKirby, RedWarrior0, Webadict
Note 1: inactivity matters are relaxed in the weekend, at the assumption that not everyone has no lives. If you didn't post much at all during the weekend, though, you BETTER come with a storm once the weekdays return.
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work, work, work, all day long
work, work, work, while i sing this song
o sorry Unvote. ExKirby do you believe that people can be mafia in back to back games ran by the same person (ie beginners 1 and 2)?
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Kirby, I asked you a question a while back, but its a little irrelevant by now so I'll replace it with something else.
Do you think Dr. Johbson is scummy?
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o sorry Unvote. ExKirby do you believe that people can be mafia in back to back games ran by the same person (ie beginners 1 and 2)?
Nice try, scumbucket. I've got you pegged, and I want you lynched. Don't fall back on the Gambler's Fallacy, defend yourself!
... That said, I do want Webadict's opinion on this. He seems to be just sitting back, and I'm curious about what he thinks of Diakron's alignment.
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o sorry Unvote. ExKirby do you believe that people can be mafia in back to back games ran by the same person (ie beginners 1 and 2)?
Nice try, scumbucket. I've got you pegged, and I want you lynched. Don't fall back on the Gambler's Fallacy, defend yourself!
... That said, I do want Webadict's opinion on this. He seems to be just sitting back, and I'm curious about what he thinks of Diakron's alignment.
yay that would work... if i was scum... but i wanted it for a read thanks for F(_)cking it up...
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go read beginners 2 and see if i am really that dumb lol *fluants his perfect general score on his asvab*
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o sorry Unvote. ExKirby do you believe that people can be mafia in back to back games ran by the same person (ie beginners 1 and 2)?
Nice try, scumbucket. I've got you pegged, and I want you lynched. Don't fall back on the Gambler's Fallacy, defend yourself!
... That said, I do want Webadict's opinion on this. He seems to be just sitting back, and I'm curious about what he thinks of Diakron's alignment.
yay that would work... if i was scum... but i wanted it for a read thanks for F(_)cking it up...
It's your own problem, man. If you think "do you believe in the Gambler's Fallacy" is a good question, that's your trouble to deal with.
Also, you look nervous as hell. I don't trust you.
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Apologies to report this, but Sonearage has just reported that she won't be around for the week and has asked for a replacement.
Thus, if anyone from outside is willing to replace her, please PM me.
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lol whatever vector ... why are you so eager to end the RVS? are YOU scum and want to stop us from scum hunting by usign the tunnel vision effect with me as the target? I dont trust you at all Vector you are scum and trying the same thing we (the scum) did last game...
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i finally get sonearage's name lol : So Near Age :) glad no one brought that up last game...
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Had to make a change: I still can't allow Spectators, given their access to the spec chat.
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o sorry Unvote. ExKirby do you believe that people can be mafia in back to back games ran by the same person (ie beginners 1 and 2)?
Nice try, scumbucket. I've got you pegged, and I want you lynched. Don't fall back on the Gambler's Fallacy, defend yourself!
If you have him pegged as scum, why aren't you voting for him?
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lol whatever vector ... why are you so eager to end the RVS? are YOU scum and want to stop us from scum hunting by usign the tunnel vision effect with me as the target? I dont trust you at all Vector you are scum and trying the same thing we (the scum) did last game...
... No. You know how I play as scum. I'm passive and boring and I sit in the background. Why would I use your strategy, when I have one that works much better? Also, I don't like your OMGUS vote.
I'm eager to end RVS because I got what I wanted out of it: a scumtell. Now I'm pursuing the scumtell and you're dropping more scumtells.
If you have him pegged as scum, why aren't you voting for him?
... This ruins the point, but it's because I want to see what happens as I press his "partner" and keep my vote on him. I don't trust either of them.
Anyway...
Unvote.
Diakron.
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lol whatever vector ... why are you so eager to end the RVS? are YOU scum and want to stop us from scum hunting by usign the tunnel vision effect with me as the target? I dont trust you at all Vector you are scum and trying the same thing we (the scum) did last game...
... No. You know how I play as scum. I'm passive and boring and I sit in the background. Why would I use your strategy, when I have one that works much better? Also, I don't like your OMGUS vote.
I'm eager to end RVS because I got what I wanted out of it: a scumtell. Now I'm pursuing the scumtell and you're dropping more scumtells.
If you have him pegged as scum, why aren't you voting for him?
... This ruins the point, but it's because I want to see what happens as I press his "partner" and keep my vote on him. I don't trust either of them.
Anyway...
Unvote.
Diakron.
I disagree with finding partners at this stage in the game. You shouldn't try that. I know that's your favorite thing to do Vector, but it's not right. However, you end the RVS as soon as you're sure you've found scum. As such, I believe you're right.
lol whatever vector ... why are you so eager to end the RVS? are YOU scum and want to stop us from scum hunting by usign the tunnel vision effect with me as the target? I dont trust you at all Vector you are scum and trying the same thing we (the scum) did last game...
...What happened last game? I want you to point out where he's making you the sole focus of everyone. He may be focusing on you, but no one else was. focusing on one person doesn't make that person scum, and you've played enough to know that.
Perhaps you are the one that is acting scummy. Did you think about that? I think not, or you wouldn't've freaked out over that. You end the RVS stage as early as you find scum, Diakron. Continuation of the RVS is a scumtell, though not a big one. It tends to confuse peopel if going for too long by suddenly shifting near the end of the Day on someone with little evidence.
It's funny because Vector didn't freak when you voted him, but when he's focusing on you, it's suddenly super scummy. No, it's not. It's scummy to freak out about that though.
And, though I really HATE FoS's I'm putting one on Jetsquirrel for lurking. I dunno where he went, but he popped in to say, "What's up?" and then books it.
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o sorry Unvote. ExKirby do you believe that people can be mafia in back to back games ran by the same person (ie beginners 1 and 2)?
Nice try, scumbucket. I've got you pegged, and I want you lynched. Don't fall back on the Gambler's Fallacy, defend yourself!
... That said, I do want Webadict's opinion on this. He seems to be just sitting back, and I'm curious about what he thinks of Diakron's alignment.
yay that would work... if i was scum... but i wanted it for a read thanks for F(_)cking it up...
It's your own problem, man. If you think "do you believe in the Gambler's Fallacy" is a good question, that's your trouble to deal with.
Also, you look nervous as hell. I don't trust you.
and what is my supposed scum tell if you dont mind telling me?
i was asking a legit question that was posted in the RVS and you jumped all over it, if you can't see that this is a joking question then you are a moron...
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"Why are beginners always scum?" seems like an odd thing to say... especially after you were scum with Pandarsenic last game, and he is certainly not a beginner. It looks like a slip.
Additionally, that question is horrible. You're active-lurking. Further: I may have tunnel-vision and be a moron when it comes to detecting jokes, but I can smell scum.
You're it.
That said, I would deeply appreciate it if Major_Sephiroth would show up and start contributing, and if Eduren would stop poking and manipulating the town.
So, Eduren and Major_Sephiroth: how do you feel about all this? Who do you think is scum?
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WA: you pride yourself in you ability to compare how people are playing against past games, thus you should know that gambler fallacy has gotten me lynched once as a townie, i did not see this as gamblers fallacy or i would of not said it.
Also you are normally welling to try to find more then one scum tell before you vote, but this time you jump on me, whats with that??
(last beginners mafia is what im referring too if anyone is wondering me and panda lead a coordinate assault that start very similar to this one.)
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both sonearage and Dr. saw that i was joking around with them me and sonearage where going at it in BM 2 and i wanted to refer to the fact that last game she was a beginner.
she learned quickly and i think if it would have been a day earlier sonearage would have lynched me... by and by if i say "why are beginners always scum" that doesn't mean "Why are scum always beginners" stop trying to trwist my words and come up with a good reason to vote me.
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Yeah, I'm also wondering whats sparking all the attention at Diakron. Sure, he's given quite a few scumtells, but nothing really significant, or as significant as Vector seems to be. So,
What makes Diakron so scummy Vector? One question and a vague feeling doesn't make a great offense. I'd much rather hear your reasonings.
Diakron, why the sudden change? You definitely seemed to grow far more defensive when you were voted, seems rather panicky.
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on another to remained unnamed site i am scum and i got role check and now i am trying to prove he's either paranoid or not a cop
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1. Scum often hide behind joking.
2. I'm pursuing this because you're jumping like crazy. You look like you're having serious problems here. As Tehstefan has said, you are being quite panicky.
3. I have rather more experience than Sonerage and Dr. Johbson, as far as I know. I don't trust you to just be joking. I think you're trying to cover something up, and I'm willing to jump out in the spotlight to find out what's really happening.
4. You have no reason to bring up the Gambler's Fallacy instead of actually defending yourself.
5. You aren't dropping one tell, you're dropping them all over the place.
6. If you say "Why are beginners always scum," that means that there is some scum that is a beginner. Therefore, if you have actually slipped, then you have knowledge of such. I think it is you.
@Tehstefan: Which scumtells am I giving off? If you demand my reasoning, then I reserve the right to demand yours as well.
It is not a question of a "vague feeling." It is a question of questioning him and pressing him, and him snapping in half like a stick. Initially, I was gauging reaction. Now it seems to be time to run in for the kill.
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on another to remained unnamed site i am scum and i got role check and now i am trying to prove he's either paranoid or not a cop
Also, I don't see what this has to do with anything.
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While his initial "Beginners always scum" comment does seem odd, its hardly condemning. I think that we still have many lurkers and that while further questioning of diakron may reveal something, he does not seem scum in my eyes.
My vote stays on ExKirby because I want him to answer my question.
Vector:
... This ruins the point, but it's because I want to see what happens as I press his "partner" and keep my vote on him. I don't trust either of them.
I must have missed something, what is the scum team?
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@Vector: My apologizies for the poorly worded post, I meant he was not giving off enough tells to be as firmly scum as you give the impression of believing he is. As of yet, I'm not getting any real tells of you, though your aggressiveness is a town tell, if only somewhat.
@Diakron: thats one of the worst non answers I've seen in a game of mafia!
Unvote, Vote: Diakron
Give a good rational answer, instead of question dodging, which is a huge scumtell.
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... This ruins the point, but it's because I want to see what happens as I press his "partner" and keep my vote on him. I don't trust either of them.
I must have missed something, what is the scum team?
Ah, I was suspecting Dr. Johbson x Diakron. However, as Webadict said, I should probably not focus so much on teams and look more at individuals.
Hence, my vote-switch after Dr. Johbson started seeming a bit more town and Diakron started seeming a bit more scummy.
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Diakron is being defensive. Town would probably answer the questions and pressure someone else, be more aggressive than defensive: Scum has more reason to stay alive. Diakron, if you were any of this game's roles, which would you choose?
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vector is scum trying to get me to do something that he can accually get other people to join him on, so he's sayign that the reason he's bashing me is "to make my Scumpartner show up". he has nothing on me except some joking that i was doing to relieve my work day, and he's being unreasonable.
1. Scum often hide behind joking.
2. I'm pursuing this because you're jumping like crazy. You look like you're having serious problems here. As Tehstefan has said, you are being quite panicky.
3. I have rather more experience than Sonerage and Dr. Johbson, as far as I know. I don't trust you to just be joking. I think you're trying to cover something up, and I'm willing to jump out in the spotlight to find out what's really happening.
4. You have no reason to bring up the Gambler's Fallacy instead of actually defending yourself.
5. You aren't dropping one tell, you're dropping them all over the place.
6. If you say "Why are beginners always scum," that means that there is some scum that is a beginner. Therefore, if you have actually slipped, then you have knowledge of such. I think it is you.
@Tehstefan: Which scumtells am I giving off? If you demand my reasoning, then I reserve the right to demand yours as well.
It is not a question of a "vague feeling." It is a question of questioning him and pressing him, and him snapping in half like a stick. Initially, I was gauging reaction. Now it seems to be time to run in for the kill.
1. there is no proof of this
2. i am being calm and collect and am giving the same story each time as i have nothing to hide.
3. are you saying your scum and that you are experienced as such?
4. i didn't. well not in my mind anyways
5 give me examples
6 no i didn't but my first game i was scum my seciond game i was scum the first game i wasn;t scum a beginner was scum same with my 4 and so on BM 2 was the first time that this was not true but at the time i was still consider new.
@ he said nothing about you being scummy he wanted a solid reason... give him one...
If i've cracked then i would give up thats what i do i won't play in a game that won't give me a chance i have much better things to do with my life. (beta.astroempires.com Ogame.org Empire total war dwarf fortress Resident evil 5 are my favorite games atm)
triple ninja'd
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And the answer to my question is...?
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Gah. Just realized I'd already voted Diakron. In any case, non voters need to come in here and start thinking, at least giving their major concerns. RedWarrior, what's your take on this issue of Diakron, scum, town, not sure, and why?
Diakron, you've yet to come up with a good reason for that question dodge you gave me.
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i am being calm and collect
No, you are not. I didn't think this was possible but your typing and demeanor are even more erratic than normal. :/
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Diakron... He's harder to read than Toony.
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to tell the truth i'd like to be either doctor or cop as i have yet t o have a role like them yet.
Yeah, I'm also wondering whats sparking all the attention at Diakron. Sure, he's given quite a few scumtells, but nothing really significant, or as significant as Vector seems to be. So,
What makes Diakron so scummy Vector? One question and a vague feeling doesn't make a great offense. I'd much rather hear your reasonings.
Diakron, why the sudden change? You definitely seemed to grow far more defensive when you were voted, seems rather panicky.
that one? i have 4 people pressing me it cant even type fast enough to be agressive. i ask question and people say " WHATEVER SCUM!!!" and give me some half assed answer...
o sorry Unvote. ExKirby do you believe that people can be mafia in back to back games ran by the same person (ie beginners 1 and 2)?
Nice try, scumbucket. I've got you pegged, and I want you lynched. Don't fall back on the Gambler's Fallacy, defend yourself!
... That said, I do want Webadict's opinion on this. He seems to be just sitting back, and I'm curious about what he thinks of Diakron's alignment.
yay that would work... if i was scum... but i wanted it for a read thanks for F(_)cking it up...
It's your own problem, man. If you think "do you believe in the Gambler's Fallacy" is a good question, that's your trouble to deal with.
Also, you look nervous as hell. I don't trust you.
and what is my supposed scum tell if you dont mind telling me?
i was asking a legit question that was posted in the RVS and you jumped all over it, if you can't see that this is a joking question then you are a moron...
lol whatever vector ... why are you so eager to end the RVS? are YOU scum and want to stop us from scum hunting by usign the tunnel vision effect with me as the target? I dont trust you at all Vector you are scum and trying the same thing we (the scum) did last game...
i am being calm and collect
No, you are not. I didn't think this was possible but your typing and demeanor are even more erratic than normal. :/
wanna swap spot and YOU try being here?
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I give up. i just ask that people look over what i said when they lynch me and i flip town.
LAST POST.
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he has nothing on me except some joking that i was doing to relieve my work day, and he's being unreasonable.
Accusations of cruelty to Poor Diakron, who just wants to put his feet up and relax? Sorry. This is a forum game, and I am an aggressive person. Additionally, I am attacking you because I believe that you are scum. I was hoping your partner would show himself, but I got called on my behavior and there was no point in continuing to press you.
1. there is no proof of this
That would be because this isn't mathematics. This is Mafia, and all I can do is say "Hm, it looks like a triangle. I can't measure its angles. I don't know how many sides it has. Yet somehow... it looks like a triangle."
Further, scum seek to occlude the situation as much as possible. This may be shown through playing around, active-lurking, etc. That is why I say that your painting it as a joke does not exactly excuse you.
2. i am being calm and collect and am giving the same story each time as i have nothing to hide.
If this is calm and collected, I'd like to see you when you're feeling neurotic.
3. are you saying your scum and that you are experienced as such?
First off, that doesn't follow at all from what I said. I said I had more experience than the people who were joking with you. Secondly, I do have a lot of experience as scum. In all the games that have run prior to my current set, I was scum. It's a very familiar situation, and I'm actually reasonably decent at it.
Now I am learning how to be town.
4. i didn't. well not in my mind anyways
You asked if it was likely for the same person to be scum in two consecutive games--like Beginner's 1 and 2 or, perhaps, Beginner's 2 and 3. It looked like you were trying to buddy up to someone and get townie endorsement, because it isn't that likely for you to be scum twice in a row.
5 give me examples
That would be your nervousness, your buddying, your refusal to answer questions, your lack of informativeness, etc.
If i've cracked then i would give up thats what i do i won't play in a game that won't give me a chance i have much better things to do with my life. (beta.astroempires.com Ogame.org Empire total war dwarf fortress Resident evil 5 are my favorite games atm)
... This is pointless and occluding information. Besides, even if you're scum you think you have a chance. You think you can get me lynched.
I apologize if you think I haven't been answering your questions.
So: I ended the RVS, as stated previously, because you look like scum. The RVS isn't really advantageous for town if you don't follow up on whatever tells you see.
As stated previously, I'm not scum. I'm town, or a "merchant," or whatever you want to call it.
Your scum tells are pretty much that you're so anxious and not attacking anyone else. You're being hyper-defensive. If you want to prove yourself town, stop defending yourself. My allegations are here and they're not going away just because you think I'm a moron. So, find some scum. If you need a little time, you can get away with saying "Give me a bit to look around," provided that you get some dirt on someone else.
I'm a reasonable sort of person. I just don't see any good reason to back off right now.
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I give up. i just ask that people look over what i said when they lynch me and i flip town.
LAST POST.
Bah.
If you're actually town, I ask that you look around and press someone. I think the most you can say about me right now is that I'm a bit of a jackass. Plus, you've got lots of time. Take a breather, relax a little, look at what other people are saying. You have two days to save yourself or die. I suggest you make good use of them.
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FUCK YOU VECTOR! I'M FUCKING TIRED OF THIS BASHING I DONT CARE ABOUT THIS FUCKING GAME ANYMORE SO YOU CAN FIND ANOTHER FUCKING SCUM AND STOP MISLEADING EVERYONE
REQUEST REPLACEMENT OR MOD KILL
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FUCK YOU VECTOR! I'M FUCKING TIRED OF THIS BASHING I DONT CARE ABOUT THIS FUCKING GAME ANYMORE SO YOU CAN FIND ANOTHER FUCKING SCUM AND STOP MISLEADING EVERYONE
REQUEST REPLACEMENT OR MOD KILL
@Vector I think you got your answer for what he's like neurotic.
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FUCK YOU VECTOR! I'M FUCKING TIRED OF THIS BASHING I DONT CARE ABOUT THIS FUCKING GAME ANYMORE SO YOU CAN FIND ANOTHER FUCKING SCUM AND STOP MISLEADING EVERYONE
REQUEST REPLACEMENT OR MOD KILL
@Vector I think you got your answer for what he's like neurotic.
... Yeah. I think I'll issue an apology for that and, uh, go hide for a while.
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FUCK YOU VECTOR! I'M FUCKING TIRED OF THIS BASHING I DONT CARE ABOUT THIS FUCKING GAME ANYMORE SO YOU CAN FIND ANOTHER FUCKING SCUM AND STOP MISLEADING EVERYONE
REQUEST REPLACEMENT OR MOD KILL
@Vector I think you got your answer for what he's like neurotic.
... Yeah. I think I'll issue an apology for that and, uh, go hide for a while.
Diakron... It's a game. There's no need to get so worked up about it. This is how Mafia games work. Sometimes you're being scrutinized, and sometimes you're scrutinizing.
So stop being a baby and grow up. It's a game.
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Sooo....since he's leaving, best start scumhunting again. Leads me to this question, what reads are you getting, and why?
I've gotten two reads I'm confident enough on sharing right now,
Vector: Agressive, pushing, both to me are good town tells, even if you tend to tunnelvision.
Webadict: So far, I'm leaning town on him, he tends to be pretty good about being helpful, and scumhunting.
Less strongly,
Dr Johnson: I like how he didn't dodge the question, and answered them all, even if he was a bit dodgy at first. Leaning town on him, if only somewhat.
The rest, I haven't gotten enough on, so Major Sephiroth, whats your opinion on things now?
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Bleh. You people need to be quieter so I don't have to crawl through 3 pages of new information!
That said, answers!
So, Eduren and Major_Sephiroth: how do you feel about all this? Who do you think is scum?
Well, in the circumstance, I'm betting either you or Diakron. If he is town, then I'm coming down on you like a ton of bricks. Which, in real life, wouldn't be *that* painful because you'd die in a split second. That split second would hurt but yeah. Better than being eaten alive or something.
Other than that, no real reads on people. I'll check the thread again though, and if I get any I'll post again.
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ok guys i'm back and after a good nights sleep plus a easy days work, i feel much better. Let the games rebegin!
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So, are we just going to forget your little explosion?
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do what you want with it, i posted it and now saying ignore it is like putting a huge Wifom to everyone
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Yeah. I figure we should keep it in mind, but not put too much stock in it. Sometimes people just get too stressed.
That said, I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.
Major_Sephiroth, ExKirby, and RedWarrior0, the three of you need to participate--and meaningfully, too. I know you're here. ExKirby, at the least, is posting in other threads... but not showing up here at all? You're next on my list for scum behavior. Silence is not very town.
Now, before anyone tries to eat me because I don't understand about people having lots of work to do: I think people here can be expected to write more than a one-liner. A post a day is fine, as long as it actually provides information. Heck, I even understand about every other day. My main problem here is that you three aren't really scum-hunting. Please start now.
As far as reads go...
Webadict looks pretty town to me. Same goes with tehstefan. I'm not really sure about either of those guesses, though, and I don't think I'll have much more until the lurkers stop lurking all over the place.
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do what you want with it, i posted it and now saying ignore it is like putting a huge Wifom to everyone
...So is this. Anyhow, what do you propose we do?
Yes, we need those three to actually do something. We don't need lurkers here.
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Mayhaps a few votes would change their minds?
Unvote
Exkirby What do you take on this whole Diakron thing? I haven't heard from you since from before the whole thing, so why not chime in?
Diakron, you still have my HOS on you, and its not likely to change, but we need more people talking before we do any real voting.
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sorry about that the only talking that has been done was about me so i cant really make a coonfirmed decision about scum.
chances are that the scum team voted for me as a safe target.
Currently my suspicions where on vector but he seems to be learning to do the town thing after a long strech of scumming so that probably that.
Unvote
Vote Redwarrior0, other then me and vector who is your choices of scum? (me and vector have argued to much to be used in the question, i want fresh stuff not reqoutes and paraphrasing)
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I disagree with the RVS that you two seemed to have leaped back to. However, you are right in assessing that those three need to talk.
major_sephiroth, since you haven't been pushed yet, why do you believe that either Vector or Diakron are scum?
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Just wanted to drop in and say sorry I'm not saying much this weekend, I'm visiting a friend's, I'll be back tomorrow with stuff to say.
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My way of thinking on that is one of two ways:
Diakron is scum who got stressed when they got found out.
Vector is scum who is targeting town who he knew would get stressed.
I'm leaning towards Diakron for saying that he has tried to WIFOM everyone. At least keep it subtle man!
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Just wanted to drop in and say sorry I'm not saying much this weekend, I'm visiting a friend's, I'll be back tomorrow with stuff to say.
We'd much rather you didn't say that you're unable to say anything and actually say something, or just tell us tomorrow when you can say something.
This is just telling us that you're active lurking. Which means that you're lurking by saying stuff that doesn't matter or is inconsequential.
My way of thinking on that is one of two ways:
Diakron is scum who got stressed when they got found out.
Vector is scum who is targeting town who he knew would get stressed.
I'm leaning towards Diakron for saying that he has tried to WIFOM everyone. At least keep it subtle man!
What about the possiblity that they are both scum or both town? Just because Vector is focusing on Diakron doesn't mean that Vector is automatically town if Diakron is scum or vice versa.
Saying this can lead to double town lynches in a bad scenario where one turns up town and you lynch the other and he also turns up town.
However, I'm still inclined to believe Diakron is suspicious of the two, given that Vector wasn't as aggressive in other games as scum. Softness is a scumtell, and so is the anger that Diakron showed. But just so you know, just because one shows up scum or town does not affect that person's town or scum status. It IS a good means for it, but is not a sole factor.
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Note: A replacement has been found. Sonearage will now be replaced by Criptfeind. Of course, I have just sent his role at 1:30 am so he may be asleep but when he comes in, give him a warm welcome.
Meanwhile:
Vote Count:
ExKirby[2]: Eduren, , Tehstefan
RedWarrior0[2]:Dr. Johbson, Daikron
Diakron[2]:, Vector, Webadict
Webadict[1]: Criptfeind
Not voting: Major_Sephiroth, Jetsquirrel, ExKirby, RedWarrior0,
Deadline: Today at 11am EST
There are less than 10 hours left.
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So...we need to figure out who to lynch, or we will end up with no one. Anyone got a pick, beyond Diakron? I want to hear some of the lurkers out there.
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I don't believe in lurker-lynching D1. If no one else shows up, I think we need to go with Diakron. He's shown the most tells and should be dealt with if we have no one else on hand. Better to get someone with scumtells than with nothing, at least on D1... don't want to be playing Lurker Roulette, here.
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Also:
My way of thinking on that is one of two ways:
Diakron is scum who got stressed when they got found out.
Vector is scum who is targeting town who he knew would get stressed.
Since when does Diakron have a history of exploding under pressure? Your story doesn't hold much water.
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Also:
My way of thinking on that is one of two ways:
Diakron is scum who got stressed when they got found out.
Vector is scum who is targeting town who he knew would get stressed.
Since when does Diakron have a history of exploding under pressure? Your story doesn't hold much water.
I think he means that Diakron is scummy because he exploded, since he lost his cool.
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Nah, what he said was "You are scummy because you pressed someone you knew would go nuts."
... I did not know this. I am not that much of a jerk. Now I want to know why M_S is using such poor logic.
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I thought he wouldn't cope well under pressure for the simple reason of how he types. Basically, in text language. This to me says that they may be quite young, and if so, quite easy to anger. And I presumed you thought similar, or had some possibility in your head.
Another thing for this point is that he could be using text language because they are short on time, which means they would have to post without too much time to think about what is happening. This would mean that Diakron could just be annoyed town though. See the Jetsquirrel situation in Beginner's Mafia 2.
Even without that little bit of stuff, we still have this:
Diakron why the heat on the newbies? Its not very nice you know!
its the RVS and i feel that the newbies are being left out of my favorite part of the game /sarcasm off
don't worry your next stefan
The obvious sarcasm and the last line suggest that Diakron is easily annoyed. Because he got random voted, he threatened tehstefan.
In summary, it is easily proven that Diakron is easily annoyed, hence why I'd think you are scum if he turns town. Not too strongly though, so don't be worried. You seem town because you are doing some genuine scumhunting.
Is that enough explanation?
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Ok I have logged on, I will try to reread this thread but in the meantime unvote.
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A properly skilled merchant is capable of selling you ice on a winter day and the clothing off your own back. To do so, however, they must bring you deep into their barter and lost in their conversation.
This, however, can lead to a problem when 11 properly skilled merchants get together to barter. Lost in their own conversations, they continue until they hear a small bell ring. The bell is held by a petite young maid.
"I'm sorry to bother you, but the meeting room closes at night. For your safety, we need you to go back to your rooms. The security will watch over you during the night." she said.
Tired and worn, the merchants walk back to their rooms. It isn't until they are nestled in their beds that they realized collectively that they never did make a final decision.
Oh well.. the bed is too comfy to bother with that right now.
Final Vote Count:
ExKirby[2]: Eduren, , Tehstefan
RedWarrior0[2]:Dr. Johbson, Daikron
Diakron[2]:, Vector, Webadict
Not voting: Major_Sephiroth, Jetsquirrel, ExKirby, RedWarrior0, Criptfeind
For better or worse, no one was lynched this day.
It is now night. Those with night roles, send me your choices. You have 24 hours.
The rest of you, good night, and enjoy the beds.
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No one woke up by alarm this morning. A few of you woke up to a woman's scream. Others work up to panicked knocking. Others never went to sleep at all. One of you, never woke up.
Everyone assembled outside Major_Sephiroth's room. It was a maid, the same one that lead you out of the meeting room yesterday, that had first found the body and screamed.
The death was brutal. Major_Sephiroth's body was full of bruises and welts. He was beaten to death before he could give a chance at a fight. He seemed to be nearby the phone rather than in his bed. Oddly enough, the phone line was cut.
One of you turn to speak to the maid and ask her why she was there. Her explanation was hard to gather in between the stuttering and sobbing. It seems she was told to visit him in the night. She went, expecting that it was for a Night Companion, but he only thanked her and let her go.
Someone asked, "Night Companion? Wait.. You don't mean."
She nodded with a quick sob, "We...*sob* offer all service*sob*services ttoto our guests. Bbebesides, all cops ask for it *Sob*."
The group calls out at once, "COP?"
The cry causes the maid to step back in shock. At least she stopped sobbing. "Yes.. he's the first to reject it. Maybe he just didn't like me. I mean, I didn't want to bubut..*sob*"
Someone asks, "You said he was a cop?"
"Yes. You didn't know?"
Little more information could be gained from that. The maid remembered bumping into someone but can't remember who. She saw nothing odd after that. With dread (and a few taking up the number for that night service), you return to the meeting room.
Major_Sephiroth, Cop, was killed in the night.
It is now Day 2.
Deadline: Friday 2nd, 11EST
Survivors:
Vector
Diakron
Tehstefan
Dr. Johbson
Criptfeind
Jetsquirrel
ExKirby
RedWarrior0
Eduren
Webadict
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... Whut.
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Grahrargaghahghaghrgh. I was about to post this afternoon, RIGHT before the thread was locked. Story of my life. :-\
Um, Alright, one cop is dead, and we haven't lynched anyone yet. Thats..Well, least we didn't mislynch..
Ok, lets see..
The person who was night-killed, was Major_Sephiroth, a man who I don't believe anyone had suspected to be mafia, thus not helping clearing/damaging anyone's name, if my logic can seep past my incredibly poorly chosen words. Don't be going on thinking I'm saying something I'm not. Just ask me if I really need to explain it. I'm not good with words.
I find it odd that Webadict was not night-killed. I would have believed that he would have been the first target.
There is always the possibility that they did not target him to make such odd-ness appear, but such thinking seems thought of first, as in, seems quite obvious.
I'd like to know what everyone thinks about this, of course, but I would also like to ask Webadict, do you think that such an act by the mafia was foolish? Would have you killed you if you were in the mafia's shoes?
I feel extremely stupid for not changing my vote to something useful ASAP once I saw that the day was ending soon, I might as well as have lynched the lurker. (ExKirby is lurking, right? I didn't miss something by him, did I?)
Hm. What else. Well, I was doing a list of what I thought before the thread was locked, but I suppose I'll finish that in a bit, now.
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quickhint: Always be aware of the deadline. If you're posting and it's close, throw a quick "extension!" post. One person asking won't give a whole day but it would've given the extra time you needed to finish.
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I feel extremely stupid for not changing my vote to something useful ASAP once I saw that the day was ending soon, I might as well as have lynched the lurker. (ExKirby is lurking, right? I didn't miss something by him, did I?)
Technically he wasn't lurking, just almost never online.
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Grahrargaghahghaghrgh. I was about to post this afternoon, RIGHT before the thread was locked. Story of my life. :-\
Um, Alright, one cop is dead, and we haven't lynched anyone yet. Thats..Well, least we didn't mislynch..
Ok, lets see..
The person who was night-killed, was Major_Sephiroth, a man who I don't believe anyone had suspected to be mafia, thus not helping clearing/damaging anyone's name, if my logic can seep past my incredibly poorly chosen words. Don't be going on thinking I'm saying something I'm not. Just ask me if I really need to explain it. I'm not good with words.
I find it odd that Webadict was not night-killed. I would have believed that he would have been the first target.
There is always the possibility that they did not target him to make such odd-ness appear, but such thinking seems thought of first, as in, seems quite obvious.
I'd like to know what everyone thinks about this, of course, but I would also like to ask Webadict, do you think that such an act by the mafia was foolish? Would have you killed you if you were in the mafia's shoes?
I feel extremely stupid for not changing my vote to something useful ASAP once I saw that the day was ending soon, I might as well as have lynched the lurker. (ExKirby is lurking, right? I didn't miss something by him, did I?)
Hm. What else. Well, I was doing a list of what I thought before the thread was locked, but I suppose I'll finish that in a bit, now.
As foolish as you may think it is, it actually has its pros and cons.
First, I'm probably the best at rooting out scum, which is why I would gun for me. The only other problem is that I would be wary that I'm being protected by the doctor. So, I, personally, would do the same thing as these mafia did: Kill a newbie. They're less likely to be protected than someone that's played before or has more experience. And, especially since there's 2 (3?) mafia, you need to kill more often than not.
Second, leaving me alive puts suspicion on me. I could leave me alive (occupying the doctor), then cast suspicion on me for being alive. The only problem is that... well... I'd know that that's what's happening.
So, no, I wouldn't try to kill me until I had killed the Doctor or found out that there is no Doctor.
Because of this, I'll assume that these players are at least a little skilled. Look especially for suspicious ICs. There's a good chance that one of them might be scum.
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Well, I have to say, that was an unexpected turn of events. The cop's dead, no lynch, and now we have to figure out what to do next.
In any case, Exkirby we still haven't heard from you. While it might be the lurker is just lurking, I'm not so sure. He may be scum trying to lay low, not say much. So
What's your opinion on things, who are your scum, and why?
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Sorry, I have a LOT of other things to do-my homework has increased a bit. So I'm gonna need a recap on what happened...
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Sorry, I have a LOT of other things to do-my homework has increased a bit. So I'm gonna need a recap on what happened...
Scanning is your friend.
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I have to put a FOS on Webaddict, because although he has a good point I know that if I was mafia I would take the best chance of him not being protected by a doctor- the first day, although it does turn in to a big old WIFOM. Also a small amount of suspicion is caused by the cop being killed on the first day on what appears to be a random hit. I know that Webaddict inspires trust in others, perhaps enough to have the cop approach him. BUT he does make a good point so-FOS at Eduren.
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Wait, whats the FoS for?
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For being an IC when the scum performed a clever nightkill, apparently >_>
... More later. I'm swamped.
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Well it is not a real FOS, more like I will be watching you and any who do not plan to should. Is there a acronym for that?
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Technically you should already be watching for everybody, always.
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Ah I see. It was meant for what a used it for but it has grown more serious.
Edit: ok how about watching more intently.
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For being an IC when the scum performed a clever nightkill, apparently >_>
... More later. I'm swamped.
Please Vector, you're as experienced as I am.
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For being an IC when the scum performed a clever nightkill, apparently >_>
... More later. I'm swamped.
Please Vector, you're as experienced as I am.
... I'm kind of confused. I said was "He is FOSing you because Webadict said 'watch the ICs,'" and now you are telling me he should be FoSing me as well? Tell him that. He's the one who can't figure out any sort of good reason to watch you other than "Grandpa Webby told me so."
If you're confused about the "more later," that would be because I'm trying to study for midterms. I will do some kind of analysis and assault later. Right now, I am busy memorizing facts about Neanderthals.
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Quick, Average male cranial capacity.
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No bloody clue. Somewhere around 1650 ccs, I'd guess (modern human is 1400-1600, I think...)? I do, however, know that they died far too often in places with names that are hard to memorize at times that are annoying to place.
Kebareh Cave, 60,000 ya, in Israel, near the Levant, while living with Homo Erectus? Thanks much, jerks.
... I'm a math major. Cut me some slack, dudes.
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Eduren, you're being overly cautious and not at all helpful for an IC. You're giving short answers that are only statements of facts. Everyone, this is called active lurking, which is a trick scum employ in order to appear active while at the same time avoiding having to work. It'd definitely go along with the IC choice of kill.
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You bring up a good point, he is not contributing much. Eduren, why not give us some analyze of the posts so far, and who's on your scum list? We could do with a scent to track right now.
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Diakron: Your actions Day 1 definitely seemed scummy as already shown by Vector. I think that you got off easy with your outburst.
Tehstefan: You are going after a confirmed absentee(ist?)(I would'nt call it lurking since he's never on). This is a safe move because your questions are only answered sparingly and can be easily lost in the intervening noise. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Criptfeind: You basically did what Web told you to do. Unless I see some original thinking, I will be forced to investigate further. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Web: Trying to off your competition I see. Everyone, there is a large possibility that he is targeting the most experienced first, in order to lead his flock of newbies off a cliff. If he hasn't manipulated you all into a lynch then look for me to die tonight.
Vector: You seemed confident in lynching Diakron Day 1. Has his outburst changed your view of him or something? If he is still scum in your mind, why have you held off on voting him today?
I will get to everybody else in the morning.
Looking over my thoughts, I'm going to give webadict a chance to respond. But if it isn't to my liking I will vote you.
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eduren, I wouldn't recommend pushing it.
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That would be because I'm quite busy. I should have some time to talk tomorrow... I hope so, anyway. I have a good deal of things to say, so I'm waiting on them until I have time to sit down and write them all out properly.
The main reason why I haven't voted Diakron yet is because 1. I've been collecting my thoughts and 2. I don't like voting without providing my reasoning. Additionally, I have further things I've been thinking about and it seems it would be good to bring them up when I vote, rather than just voting, letting people react to that, and giving the rest of my reasoning at a later date.
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eduren, I wouldn't recommend pushing it.
Pushing what? I did exactly what was asked of me. Care to explain why you are voting me about it?
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Vote Count:
Exkirby[1]: Tehstefan
Eduren[1]: ExKirby
Deadline: Friday, 2nd, 11am EST
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I know it's early, but 1-Day Extension, please. I have midterms today and tomorrow, and won't be able to argue well enough. Given that half the players seem to be lurking already, it seems wise to extend the time a little bit so everyone has time to talk (especially ExKirby, who also seems to have a lot of stuff to do).
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I'll need 1 more request to extend to 2 am the following day. I'll need a total of 5 to extend past that since it'll move the day up to Monday.
Of course, if I see very little chatter I'll highly question giving it.
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Ill vote for the extension.
Dakarian, I promise chatter.
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I, too, will promise WoTs. I have a lot of evidence stacked up. I just can't really give the subject justice until Friday afternoon, or a little bit tomorrow at the most.
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Day extended to 2am Saturday.
I leave you a task, meanwhile, outWOT last weekend's Bay 12 mafia.
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I don't know, Eduren, Webadict was right, you didn't seem to do much 'original thinking' yourself.
Your defense was lackluster, as well, really.
Eduren
RedWarrior, come tell us what you think of stuff.
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My defense? You call that my defense? Those were my suspicions. Some of that original thinking I seem to be lacking. If you want me to defend myself then do something other than parrot webadict.
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Criptfeind: You basically did what Web told you to do. Unless I see some original thinking, I will be forced to investigate further. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Honestly he could be either I would even say he was the cop if the cop was not killed. But I think at this time there is a slightly bigger chance of him being townie because his outburst, although that would be a great play for the mafia I think it would be too risky.
Also to set the record straight you were in my top two list of my suspicions before WA told us watch you.
Right now I feel that either WA or you are mafia, possibly both. Personably I think WA has a higher chance to be mafia, but I think if he is not he will be of a greater use to the town than you. So vote eduren.
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Diakron: Your actions Day 1 definitely seemed scummy as already shown by Vector. I think that you got off easy with your outburst.
Tehstefan: You are going after a confirmed absentee(ist?)(I would'nt call it lurking since he's never on). This is a safe move because your questions are only answered sparingly and can be easily lost in the intervening noise. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Criptfeind: You basically did what Web told you to do. Unless I see some original thinking, I will be forced to investigate further. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Web: Trying to off your competition I see. Everyone, there is a large possibility that he is targeting the most experienced first, in order to lead his flock of newbies off a cliff. If he hasn't manipulated you all into a lynch then look for me to die tonight.
Vector: You seemed confident in lynching Diakron Day 1. Has his outburst changed your view of him or something? If he is still scum in your mind, why have you held off on voting him today?
I will get to everybody else in the morning.
Looking over my thoughts, I'm going to give webadict a chance to respond. But if it isn't to my liking I will vote you.
It's almost that, but this is what you would call an OMGUS if we had both voted. He went after me because I had pointed out he was active lurking. I think he's also being overly defensive, which is another scumtell.
And if I were to "off my competition," I'd probably start with Vector. Not you. He'd be looking at me pretty closely, and it'd be tougher to shake him than someone who's not participating much.
eduren, I wouldn't recommend pushing it.
Pushing what? I did exactly what was asked of me. Care to explain why you are voting me about it?
He's saying that you're being overly defensive in your accusation. Can't take the heat? Why not?
My defense? You call that my defense? Those were my suspicions. Some of that original thinking I seem to be lacking. If you want me to defend myself then do something other than parrot webadict.
You weren't defending yourself. You pushed my accusation off onto other people and was very defensive about it. It's not that he needs original thinking, it's that you're being so obvious that even a newbie can tell you're scum. eduren.
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Webadict, that was so brilliant, it deserves a cookie. Sadly, I can't give you a cookie.
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Where to begin...
First off, apologies to Diakron. I still think you may be scum, but part of the reason why I was pressing you so hard was because I wanted to keep everything away from Eduren. Here is what I have found:
1. Lack of participation thanks to random-voting a chronic lurker. Though eduren is an IC, he used ExKirby's lack of activity as an excuse to keep completely out of the town's debates.
2. Doing no scum-hunting of his own; just building bandwagons on whoever I happen to go after.
Kirby, I asked you a question a while back, but its a little irrelevant by now so I'll replace it with something else.
Do you think Dr. Johbson is scummy?
is a prime example, as is his more recent post where he tries to rebuild the bandwagon on Diakron. I find it particularly amusing that he is not bringing any of his own allegations whatsoever, just attempting to whisper in the town's ear.
3. Jumpiness. He jumped at criptfeind's ridiculous FoS and tried to deflect blame for Major_Sephiroth's death onto me:
For being an IC when the scum performed a clever nightkill, apparently >_>
... More later. I'm swamped.
Please Vector, you're as experienced as I am.
... I'm kind of confused. I said was "He is FOSing you because Webadict said 'watch the ICs,'" and now you are telling me he should be FoSing me as well? Tell him that. He's the one who can't figure out any sort of good reason to watch you other than "Grandpa Webby told me so."
If you're confused about the "more later," that would be because I'm trying to study for midterms. I will do some kind of analysis and assault later. Right now, I am busy memorizing facts about Neanderthals.
He then proceeded to deflect more, asking me a technical question rather than addressing his mistake. Unfortunately, I took the bait and didn't notice he'd done this until late last night.
4. Contradictory notions.
Tehstefan: You are going after a confirmed absentee(ist?)(I would'nt call it lurking since he's never on). This is a safe move because your questions are only answered sparingly and can be easily lost in the intervening noise. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Sounds like you're parroting your own reason for staying on ExKirby and doing nothing else for pretty much all of D1, doesn't it?
5. He doesn't vote the people he's pressing. It seems like he wouldn't want any of the townies to die with is vote on them... instead, he prefers a mild FoS and an attempt to bandwagon Diakron.
If you want Diakron dead so badly, why don't you vote him yourself?
My defense? You call that my defense? Those were my suspicions. Some of that original thinking I seem to be lacking. If you want me to defend myself then do something other than parrot webadict.
No, your "original thinking" seems to mostly consist of "people are following Webadict" (an idea I brought up) and "what happened to the bandwagon on Diakron?" (again, something I'm responsible for). It's a lot safer when you're following a deranged townie, isn't it? People think I'm town because I'm being so aggressive in comparison to my other games, and you can just hop onto my ideas and follow them.
Well done, but it ends here.
Down you go, eduren.
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I wish I had 2 cookies!
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Everyone of you deserves a medal!
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How many votes to lynch guys?
In any case, I'm not so sure Eduren is scum. My problem is that it seems a bit too, well easy. He's an IC, surely he wouldn't be be so silly as to expose himself so soon? Perhaps its just me, but this seems far too quick for my liking.
As to the question Eduren asked me, I get a feeling that he's actually town, he blew up far too easily, if he were scum, he'd try and cool down, not go nuclear like that. Just my two cents on this issue.
And Exkirby, I have a question. Who do you think are scum and why? I don't think I've seen you contribute one thing to this discussion, so hearing why you believe Eduren to be lynch worthy would be interesting.
Unvote
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I'm fine with day extension
Second: Sorry I haven't been posting recently. My parents took my computer rights away, thanks to the results of a chem test, my forgetfulness, and my fantastic organizational skills.
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In any case, I'm not so sure Eduren is scum. My problem is that it seems a bit too, well easy. He's an IC, surely he wouldn't be be so silly as to expose himself so soon? Perhaps its just me, but this seems far too quick for my liking.
As to the question Eduren asked me, I get a feeling that he's actually town, he blew up far too easily, if he were scum, he'd try and cool down, not go nuclear like that. Just my two cents on this issue.
And Exkirby, I have a question. Who do you think are scum and why? I don't think I've seen you contribute one thing to this discussion, so hearing why you believe Eduren to be lynch worthy would be interesting.
Unvote
Why are you unvoting as you press the person you had voted?
... What, you're the other scum? I'm so surprised to see you show up for the party. Seriously. This is not too soon. I wanted to lynch him D1. I watched people prod him as he evaded everything. I studied his reactions. I compared his behavior to how he plays in other games. This is scum-eduren, folks. I want to lynch him, and anyone who backs off and gets us YET ANOTHER no-lynch is going to receive severe suspicion.
This game must not be lost due to lurkers and fools who cannot discern coal from gold. Vote eduren, or provide some sort of other target. We will lose if we sit back watching ourselves get derailed. We will lose if we allow others to think for us. We will lose if we sit here wondering about vague quandaries and failing to act. If eduren is town and we have lynched him, at least we will learn something about our situation. Someone must die, so that we can get somewhere. Today, that someone is eduren.
The two of you need to think up something better than pinning things on Diakron and ExKirby. This is a game of Mafia, not find-the-scapegoat. Stop deflecting and protecting eduren... or was his response to this good enough for you:
You bring up a good point, he is not contributing much. Eduren, why not give us some analyze of the posts so far, and who's on your scum list? We could do with a scent to track right now.
Hey guys let's kill Diakron
You talk about following blindly! This is blind following at its best. All of you need to learn to think for yourselves and grow some backbone. Do you really think ExKirby and Diakron are orchestrating all of this? If so, you should say so. Don't just go about hunting lurkers and those with poor anger management in time we don't have. Say something of value and move forward!
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okay guys i'm typing with one hand so this will be copy and pasted in all mafia games i'm in:
I have first degree burns over 3/4 of my left hand after getting frying oil splashed on it. i cannot type well with one hand so i wont be doing much talking in my post. i will continue to play but wanted to get this out in the open.
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Vector, I unvoted Exkirby. I hadn't yet voted Eduren, and I plan on doing it, I just wanted other people to pitch in. I haven't seen him do anything but bandwagon, and thats probably one of the scummiest things you can do.
And already accusing me of scum? I'm not defending him, I'm saying your tunnel-visioning. We need to keep our eyes open to other people who may be scum, and just jumping on the bandwagoning, going for the easy lynch. Thats why I'm asking Exkirby for his reasoning, instead of just letting him jump on this bandwagon.
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EBWOP: Also, you know telling us about your meta data might have been useful beforehand, not just right now? Its kind of important to tell us everything you know about the target.
Vote: Eduren
I find your lack of helpfulness disconcerting, you hardly have given any sort of advice, you've been active lurking, I've failed to see you scum hunt at all, and when you do, you give no reasons for it.
Also, I say Diakron is town, in my post, yet I'm blindly following him when he says to kill him? I fail to see how your arguement holds up in this regard!
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In no particular order
1. My "Active lurking". You will notice, those that have played against me before that my so called Active Lurking is my normal behavior. While thats not what i would call it, I do it very often. Call it a bad habit picked up from BM1.
3. Jumpiness. He jumped at criptfeind's ridiculous FoS and tried to deflect blame for Major_Sephiroth's death onto me
Jumpy? I understood that his FoS was due to webadicts direction, but I wanted to hear him say it. I was making him think more carefully about finding his own suspicions.
Deflect blame? Do you like playing the victim? I was just pointing out that what web was saying was pretty ludicrous.
No, your "original thinking" seems to mostly consist of "people are following Webadict" (an idea I brought up) and "what happened to the bandwagon on Diakron?" (again, something I'm responsible for). It's a lot safer when you're following a deranged townie, isn't it? People think I'm town because I'm being so aggressive in comparison to my other games, and you can just hop onto my ideas and follow them.
So you're saying this entire post had no original thinking?
Diakron: Your actions Day 1 definitely seemed scummy as already shown by Vector. I think that you got off easy with your outburst.
Tehstefan: You are going after a confirmed absentee(ist?)(I would'nt call it lurking since he's never on). This is a safe move because your questions are only answered sparingly and can be easily lost in the intervening noise. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Criptfeind: You basically did what Web told you to do. Unless I see some original thinking, I will be forced to investigate further. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Web: Trying to off your competition I see. Everyone, there is a large possibility that he is targeting the most experienced first, in order to lead his flock of newbies off a cliff. If he hasn't manipulated you all into a lynch then look for me to die tonight.
Vector: You seemed confident in lynching Diakron Day 1. Has his outburst changed your view of him or something? If he is still scum in your mind, why have you held off on voting him today?
I will get to everybody else in the morning.
Looking over my thoughts, I'm going to give webadict a chance to respond. But if it isn't to my liking I will vote you.
You bring up a good point, he is not contributing much. Eduren, why not give us some analyze of the posts so far, and who's on your scum list? We could do with a scent to track right now.
Hey guys let's kill Diakron
I never said that. I was noting that nobody seemed to continue the antics of yesterday. I was wondering your thoughts on that mostly.
Sounds like you're parroting your own reason for staying on ExKirby and doing nothing else for pretty much all of D1, doesn't it?
Honestly? After Diakrons outburst I didn't want to pressure him too much. I can't apologize for being human and feeling sympathy.
Oh, and that sucks about your hand dude.
Webadict. Vector could either be a determined townie, or an aggressive scum buddy but we'll deal with that later.
Webadict is leading a lynch against me because when I turn up town, he will get away with it. He will be looking especially townie with his aggressiveness. All he has to do is say "My bad, he really was acting scummy".
Webadict: Can you explain your lurking Day1?
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And already accusing me of scum? I'm not defending him, I'm saying your tunnel-visioning. We need to keep our eyes open to other people who may be scum, and just jumping on the bandwagoning, going for the easy lynch. Thats why I'm asking Exkirby for his reasoning, instead of just letting him jump on this bandwagon.
Ah-ha. Yes, I am a moron. Thank you for that information.
EBWOP: Also, you know telling us about your meta data might have been useful beforehand, not just right now? Its kind of important to tell us everything you know about the target.
Vote: Eduren
Didn't do that because I figured I had a day to watch everyone; I would have given out everything at the beginning of D2, but there were these midterm things that jumped on me and stole all my time. Scum-data is useless until you can lead a successful attack, because otherwise you're just tipping off the scum that you're watching for certain behaviors. Better to let them breathe easy and accumulate mistakes until you jump them.
1. My "Active lurking". You will notice, those that have played against me before that my so called Active Lurking is my normal behavior. While thats not what i would call it, I do it very often. Call it a bad habit picked up from BM1.
This is different than normal. This time, you're directing the town and building bandwagons. I remember BM1. You attacked people and didn't say much of value or reason. This time, you're saying plenty, but being very careful not to attack people. You're trying to get people to vote whoever the town is focusing on. This is markedly different even from your behavior in other current Mafias.
3. Jumpiness. He jumped at criptfeind's ridiculous FoS and tried to deflect blame for Major_Sephiroth's death onto me
Jumpy? I understood that his FoS was due to webadicts direction, but I wanted to hear him say it. I was making him think more carefully about finding his own suspicions.
Deflect blame? Do you like playing the victim? I was just pointing out that what web was saying was pretty ludicrous.
What, that newbies kill differently than people who are familiar with the game? That's definitely true. Besides, if Webadict were scum, he'd have no reason to go after you. He could easily lead a lynch on anyone, particularly Diakron. Heck, he even could have pushed Diakron and then gotten the town to turn on me while building a third lynch to line up after that.
Hm. Sounds like what you're doing, doesn't it?
Additionally, he said in his post that he was following Webadict's advice. I still think you jumped. If you wanted to show that Webadict was being ludicrous, why say that I could have just as easily made the kill? A better argument would be in saying that a beginner would have done the same, rather than move suspicions onto me as a "third IC." As it is, you certainly deflected.
So you're saying this entire post had no original thinking?
I'm saying your post is a distillation of what everyone else has said, and mostly turns into "Hey guys, forget about me! Think about Diakron!!"
You bring up a good point, he is not contributing much. Eduren, why not give us some analyze of the posts so far, and who's on your scum list? We could do with a scent to track right now.
Hey guys let's kill Diakron
I never said that. I was noting that nobody seemed to continue the antics of yesterday. I was wondering your thoughts on that mostly.
... No, you didn't say it. You just brought up behavior and, rather than providing your opinion on it, asked what others thought. That is an indirect bandwagon. When confronted with questions, you ask more questions. You try to influence others. You deflect.
Sounds like you're parroting your own reason for staying on ExKirby and doing nothing else for pretty much all of D1, doesn't it?
Honestly? After Diakrons outburst I didn't want to pressure him too much. I can't apologize for being human and feeling sympathy.
Oh, and that sucks about your hand dude.
Way to deflect. This has nothing to do with Diakron. This has to do with accusing someone of something you have done yourself. Additionally, if you want pressure off of Diakron, why don't you go find some more scum? I suppose that leading a Diakron-bandwagon is a better idea, and less pressuring?
Webadict. Vector could either be a determined townie, or an aggressive scum buddy but we'll deal with that later.
Webadict is leading a lynch against me because when I turn up town, he will get away with it. He will be looking especially townie with his aggressiveness. All he has to do is say "My bad, he really was acting scummy".
Webadict: Can you explain your lurking Day1?
I don't think you're going to be able to redirect the IC-focus onto Webadict, dude. Nice try. "We'll deal with that later?" We'll deal with me later if I end up doing something scumtastic, but right now we're dealing with you. Not Diakron or Webadict, but you.
Further, nice OMGUS vote, and well-done on pinning him as an "aggressive lurker." This is not Webadict being aggressive--or do you not remember what happened D2 of BM1? I might agree with you if you thought he was being too passive. This, however, is not aggression.
Trust me, if you turn up town Webadict is not going to get away with it. He knows how you play, and if he leads us to town in a beginner's game then he will fall under deep suspicion as well.
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In no particular order
1. My "Active lurking". You will notice, those that have played against me before that my so called Active Lurking is my normal behavior. While thats not what i would call it, I do it very often. Call it a bad habit picked up from BM1.
3. Jumpiness. He jumped at criptfeind's ridiculous FoS and tried to deflect blame for Major_Sephiroth's death onto me
Jumpy? I understood that his FoS was due to webadicts direction, but I wanted to hear him say it. I was making him think more carefully about finding his own suspicions.
Deflect blame? Do you like playing the victim? I was just pointing out that what web was saying was pretty ludicrous.
No, your "original thinking" seems to mostly consist of "people are following Webadict" (an idea I brought up) and "what happened to the bandwagon on Diakron?" (again, something I'm responsible for). It's a lot safer when you're following a deranged townie, isn't it? People think I'm town because I'm being so aggressive in comparison to my other games, and you can just hop onto my ideas and follow them.
So you're saying this entire post had no original thinking?
Diakron: Your actions Day 1 definitely seemed scummy as already shown by Vector. I think that you got off easy with your outburst.
Tehstefan: You are going after a confirmed absentee(ist?)(I would'nt call it lurking since he's never on). This is a safe move because your questions are only answered sparingly and can be easily lost in the intervening noise. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Criptfeind: You basically did what Web told you to do. Unless I see some original thinking, I will be forced to investigate further. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Web: Trying to off your competition I see. Everyone, there is a large possibility that he is targeting the most experienced first, in order to lead his flock of newbies off a cliff. If he hasn't manipulated you all into a lynch then look for me to die tonight.
Vector: You seemed confident in lynching Diakron Day 1. Has his outburst changed your view of him or something? If he is still scum in your mind, why have you held off on voting him today?
I will get to everybody else in the morning.
Looking over my thoughts, I'm going to give webadict a chance to respond. But if it isn't to my liking I will vote you.
You bring up a good point, he is not contributing much. Eduren, why not give us some analyze of the posts so far, and who's on your scum list? We could do with a scent to track right now.
Hey guys let's kill Diakron
I never said that. I was noting that nobody seemed to continue the antics of yesterday. I was wondering your thoughts on that mostly.
Sounds like you're parroting your own reason for staying on ExKirby and doing nothing else for pretty much all of D1, doesn't it?
Honestly? After Diakrons outburst I didn't want to pressure him too much. I can't apologize for being human and feeling sympathy.
Oh, and that sucks about your hand dude.
Webadict. Vector could either be a determined townie, or an aggressive scum buddy but we'll deal with that later.
Webadict is leading a lynch against me because when I turn up town, he will get away with it. He will be looking especially townie with his aggressiveness. All he has to do is say "My bad, he really was acting scummy".
Webadict: Can you explain your lurking Day1?
Honestly, if you turn up town, it would've had to be a REALLY big bad on my part.
...And I was lurking on Day 1? If anything, I spent more time in this mafia than any of the other ones I was in, if only to help the newbies with what they're doing. As it is, I think they're doing well if they found a scum without me being here to help them. Although, to be fair, I think you were being fairly obvious about it.
Everyone, lynch eduren. He's being really scummy.
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Vote Count:
Eduren[6]: ExKirby, Dr. Johbson, Criptfeind, Webadict, Vector, Tehstefan
Webadict[1]: Eduren
Note Voting: Diakron, Jetsquirrel, RedWarrior0
Deadline: near
The lynch scene is being written up now. Until then they day is still active. Once posted, the day will end.
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... *groan.* Would Diakron, Jetsquirrel, and RedWarrior0 show up and at least say hi? More than half of this game is lurking!
That said, perhaps we didn't need the day extension. I'm really sorry about that, Dakarian. I thought this would generate rather more arguments than it has.
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Huh? Most of the votes and final arguments came after the original deadline. You didn't net enough cries to extend for me to push it past the weekend. As such, it worked out very well.
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A reminder: All flavor is there for literary purposes, not game purposes.
In other words, do not read anything into the story. It's there just to keep things interesting.
As the grand barters continued, ExKirby walks besides Eduren. He keeps his voice low.
“I took a moment to speak a little with the maid that found the body. Apparently, she was afraid of something beyond the idea of people dying near her. The cop still had a little life left and left a note with a name on it.”
Eduren's eyes widened at that, seemingly of shock. ExKirby leaned closer to him and whispered two words before walking back to the crowd.
“Got ya.”
To the untrained eye, Eduren looked shocked at the news of a possible lead. To the merchants, the small details mattered. The high lift of the eyebrows. The slight lean away from ExKirby. The small turn of the head. That wasn't shock, that was fear.
By the time Eduren realized what happened, the crowd was on him. Soon after they had him on the ground, the maid appeared demanding what was going on. Tehstefan told her that they have a criminal on their hands.
With a nod, the maid said, “The security won't listen to me, but I can find proper arrangements for him”
Arrangements turned out to be a small room by the maintenance halls which contained only a small bed. Tied up, Eduren was tossed inside. The maid showed that the room was only unlockable from the outside.
“We will keep him here until everything is settled. He will no longer be a problem.”
Although some of you become worried over trusting hotel staff, in the end, you decide to simply leave things be. It's late, and the bed is waiting.
Eduren, Mafia Roleblocker, has been lynched.
Note: Yes, that is, officially, a lynch story. You're merchants, not a mob, so no nooses for you. :P
It is now Night 2. Those with night roles please send me your choices.
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No one woke up to a scream today. Those that were not already awake were woken by the frantic knocking this time. However, the maid was still the cause: apparentely, another death occured, this time against their own kind.
As the Merchants run towards the maintenance halls, some of you notice the door to Vector's room left open and decide to investigate that instead. Both groups gathered back in the meeting room with their findings.
The maid found Eduren dead in his room. The door was unlocked, the scum still tied up, and his heart piereced by a knife wound. The maid swore that she hadn't done it. No one minded: either she killed someone that needed to die or someone else did. Either way, they won't morn him.
More troubling was Vector's death. It was another beating, this time with careful attention to break multiple bones including each of his fingers, arms, and legs. A morbid curiosity makes some of you wonder whether he died before or after those breaks.
This discussion, though, did not take much time. Soon it was back to the matter at hand, finding the last killer.
Vector, townie, has been killed in the night.
Note: Eduren was already declared dead due to the lynching. You can say it was a roundabout way to carry it out. Remember, this is Beginner Mafia: there are no tricks or secret events here.
Deadline: Tuesday, 6th, 11am EST.
Survivors:
Diakron
Tehstefan
Dr. Johbson
Criptfeind
Jetsquirrel
ExKirby
RedWarrior0
Webadict
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Webadict, from what I've seen, I highly doubt you just bussed your scum buddy so soon in the game. So, as far as one can be, your townie. Doesn't mean I won't be watching you, but good catch with Eduren.
Now, as for our next target, perhaps it'd be good to look back on the thread, and watch whats happening.
Jetsquirrel who is the other scum in your opinion? We haven't heard from you at all lately.
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Well, I can certainly class this as equal warfare. Now, we need to try to backtrace to find leads...
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Webadict, from what I've seen, I highly doubt you just bussed your scum buddy so soon in the game. So, as far as one can be, your townie. Doesn't mean I won't be watching you, but good catch with Eduren.
Now, as for our next target, perhaps it'd be good to look back on the thread, and watch whats happening.
Jetsquirrel who is the other scum in your opinion? We haven't heard from you at all lately.
How many times have you played mafia before, tehstefan?
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WHAAAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I'M BACK!!!
Did anybody miss me?
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As a matter of fact, no. We are powering through the Mafia.
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good for you
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Now, give me reasons. As to why you weren't here.
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I was at Osmington Bay with ma mates ;D,
I was jumping off big poles,
I was screaming as I was chucked in the sea,
I was singing with a seriously groovy vicar,
I was eating REALLY slowly, (I hate cabbage,)
I was not near a computer for 4 days,
I was buying fluffy teddy bears called Harri,
I was mounting biking up a really steep hill,
Meh, tell me if you want some more.
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How many games? I've played in three, including this one. Why do you ask?
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How many games? I've played in three, including this one. Why do you ask?
I just wanted to know why you're telling everyone that I'm town when the only possible way you know that is if you're scum, seeing as how you've had three games of experience. There's not really a reason you should ever say that, and I'll tell you why:
Let's think of 4 possible situations, 1 of which is currently impossible (Well, 2 technically, but 1 through game mechanics), but since this is all rhetoric, it doesn't matter.
Situation 1: We're both town.
This is likely what it is, but this isn't always going to happen. In this situation, yes, you're lucky. Both players are town and you believe the other to be as such. It still stops others from being suspicious, even if you're right.
Situation 2: You're scum and I'm town.
This situation makes it so you know that the other is town simply because you're scum. This is what is usually called "buddying," and keeps people from suspecting you because you don't suspect them. It's a tougher scumtell to find, but it still is one.
Situation 3: I'm scum and you're town.
This is, by far, the worst situation that you could stumble upon. Not only do you believe one player is town, you've basically said it in front of everyone else. This could stop other people from looking at all suspects, instead of being suspicious of everyone. See Beginner Mafia 1 for reasons why not to do this.
Situation 4: We're both scum.
This situation is meant to cause one of the two situations above it, by either making others believe one of the two are scum, or by saying it was a mistake when it comes up wrong.
It's just a bad idea. If you're wrong, then it screws everyone up (Like when I said Vector was town... after trying to lynch him for 3 Days). If you're right, then alright. You just want to remain cautious of everyone. Just because it may look like someone is town, doesn't mean they're town. That's what the mafia want you to think about themselves. That's why it's called mafia.
Just avoid it in the future. Say something more along the lines of, "I believe you to be town" unless you know for a fact (Cop) and even then, be careful (Godfather, Insanity, Naive...).
Now, who do you believe to be town besides me? I'd like to know.
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Alright, thats one down, Only one left!
Diakron, care to tell us stuff?
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SURE!
1st degree burns are a bitch. for some reason i can't type WoTs with only one off-hand... go figure...
Dr. Johbson you are scum are my main suspicion for scumminess. all new players are scum within the first 3 games (considering these as being your "beginner games") they play. not really gambler's fallacy since if you look at every game there is ALWAYS 1 new guy as scum. THAT IS A FACT.
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SURE!
1st degree burns are a bitch. for some reason i can't type WoTs with only one off-hand... go figure...
Dr. Johbson you are scum are my main suspicion for scumminess. all new players are scum within the first 3 games (considering these as being your "beginner games") they play. not really gambler's fallacy since if you look at every game there is ALWAYS 1 new guy as scum. THAT IS A FACT.
*Bursts from the commentator room*
You're so FUNNY! I CAN'T BREATH.
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;D glad you liked it
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I'm scum because of odds? Thats hardly a good reason. I mean, you could call up my strange acting-ness on day one, but you think I'm scum because I'm new?
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I can vote with whatever reason i want, atleast i have one. i would gladly have us both lynched just to see if i am right.
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I can vote with whatever reason i want, atleast i have one. i would gladly have us both lynched just to see if i am right.
You can't be serious... Diakron... Dear God! You're WORSE than ToonyMan. You heard me. WORSE. That's tough to do.
You DON'T have a reason to vote him, your logic is faulty, and you're suggesting something scum would easily jump on in order to win, unless you ARE scum, in which case you're being very stupid about it.
GAH! NO NO NO NO NO! If you're going to play, at least pretend to be town... Even if you're scum...
Also, you OMGUS'd. (Oh My God U Suck) That means he voted someone... basically because he voted for him. Yeah.
Do you agree or disagree with this analysis?
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Webadict, I said your as far as I can believe to be town. Doesn't mean I won't keep watching you.
As for my other town reads, Vector was one, until he was proven such, Dr. Johnson may be one, I've gotten a townie read off him, if only slightly.
Now for the next point, I have to say, there's no way to be worse than toonyman. It just can't happen. And I doubt he's scum, mainly if for the reason that was a extremely horrible play. However Diakron What reason do you have for your vote? I want something actually interesting, not lets randomly vote so the scum can win!
@MOD: Could we prod Jetsquirrel? It's been a while since his last post no?
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funny i am townlike i said i would gladly be lynched to prove it, all i want is to see is if once again a newb is scum (soneraage is my second person to push) can't prove if you dont try *shrugs*
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I think he just blindly walked off the deep end and knows it. Diakron, I want reasoning.
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I see more foolishness than scummy-ness. No scum in their right mind would do such a thing. Unless, of course, they are aware that no scum in their right mind would do such a thing, and thus, do it.
But such an act would require cleverness, and I don't really see cleverness dripping off Diakron, from here. No offense, of course mate, I'm sure you understand what I mean.
That aside, I do still see the scummy-ness so he gets to keep my vote until I find someone even more suspicious.
Like RedWarrior0! Where did that old chap head off to? Come back and join in the fun!
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Or JetSquirrel, or course. Looks like he's disappeared too.
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Well, I think I'll hold my vote ATM.
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Jetsquirrel[1]: Tehstefan
Diakron[2]: Dr. Johbson, ExKirby
Dr. Johbson[1]: Diakron
Not Voting: Criptfeind, Jetsquirrel, RedWarrior0, Webadict
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I think we need a replacement for Jetsquirrel and RedWarrior0. Perhaps Criptfeind.
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Possibly?
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They lose Karma.
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OK... whatever that means.
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Sorry about that I caught a nasty cold; I was in bed most of the last couple days. I still am sick but I will try to check here more often.
I will join you guys in your Fos on Diakron, but I suspect that it was just a newbie mistake. On the other hand he is really over reacting to it.
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Sorry I haven't talked much. Being in 4 mafias at once while hosting another is not smart.
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lol
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Note 1: At this point, all players are accounted for and are in game. A prods were necessary, though.
Note 2: Welcome back Sonearage.
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*shoots dak a dark look*
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why thank you kind sir
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funny i am townlike i said i would gladly be lynched to prove it, all i want is to see is if once again a newb is scum (soneraage is my second person to push) can't prove if you dont try *shrugs*
Townlike? You either are town or you're not town.
Also, don't suggest lynching yourself. It doesn't help town to sacrifice. Usually.
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Oh jetsquirrel, you going to be posting here anytime soon? It seems to me your lurking very well. Considering we don't have another lead, perhaps we should press the lurkers.
Web, what did Eduren's flip mean to you? Do you have any suspicions about who might be scum now that he's dead? Or are we blank slate?
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funny i am townlike i said i would gladly be lynched to prove it, all i want is to see is if once again a newb is scum (soneraage is my second person to push) can't prove if you dont try *shrugs*
Townlike? You either are town or you're not town.
Also, don't suggest lynching yourself. It doesn't help town to sacrifice. Usually.
Space failed meant to say: funny i am town, like i said i would gladly be lynched to prove it, all i want is to see is if once again a newb is scum (soneraage is my second person to push) can't prove if you dont try *shrugs*
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Randomly lynching and trying to find scum isn't a good scum-finding tactic, Diakron.
Unvote. Vote Jetsquirrel.
Lurking be bad, yo.
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Oh jetsquirrel, you going to be posting here anytime soon? It seems to me your lurking very well. Considering we don't have another lead, perhaps we should press the lurkers.
Web, what did Eduren's flip mean to you? Do you have any suspicions about who might be scum now that he's dead? Or are we blank slate?
Well, what you do it go back to the Days before and look at how eduren interacted with others. You can try to find scum based on what he did to others and what others did to him. I'm having a lot of not free time right now, so I'll be able to do a full overview tomorrow or so.
But, no it's not a clean slate.
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funny i am townlike i said i would gladly be lynched to prove it, all i want is to see is if once again a newb is scum (soneraage is my second person to push) can't prove if you dont try *shrugs*
Townlike? You either are town or you're not town.
Also, don't suggest lynching yourself. It doesn't help town to sacrifice. Usually.
This is what I meant by him walking off the deep end. Hold on, I'm gonna find my quote...I think he just blindly walked off the deep end and knows it. Diakron, I want reasoning.
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Current Vote:
Jetsquirrel[2]: Tehstefan, Dr. Johbson
Diakron[1]: ExKirby
Dr. Johbson[1]: Diakron
Not Voting: Criptfeind, Jetsquirrel, RedWarrior0, Webadict
Note 1: I keep attendance lax on weekends. It is now monday. I expect a good deal more.
Note 2: Even when prods are answered, I'll only allow so many Prods before I start turning to other methods.
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Why lax on the weekend?
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Some people have lives during the weekend unlike the rest of us. Even when I don't have one, many times I'm off spending most of the weekend doing non-comp stuff and I imagine I'm not alone.
Thus I plop a Tuesday deadline so that those who were gone during the weekend coudl return in time for monday.
Now, if I"m lax on the weekends, I'm doublestrict if you don't show up on the weekends AND monday since, by then, you missed most of the game-day.
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Well, I don't have a life on the weekends, so HA.
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funny i am townlike i said i would gladly be lynched to prove it, all i want is to see is if once again a newb is scum (soneraage is my second person to push) can't prove if you dont try *shrugs*
Townlike? You either are town or you're not town.
Also, don't suggest lynching yourself. It doesn't help town to sacrifice. Usually.
This is what I meant by him walking off the deep end. Hold on, I'm gonna find my quote...I think he just blindly walked off the deep end and knows it. Diakron, I want reasoning.
i love how you don't mention this:
funny i am townlike i said i would gladly be lynched to prove it, all i want is to see is if once again a newb is scum (soneraage is my second person to push) can't prove if you dont try *shrugs*
Townlike? You either are town or you're not town.
Also, don't suggest lynching yourself. It doesn't help town to sacrifice. Usually.
Space failed meant to say: funny i am town, like i said i would gladly be lynched to prove it, all i want is to see is if once again a newb is scum (soneraage is my second person to push) can't prove if you dont try *shrugs*
try something other then active lurking for a change. who knows you might accually say something useful.
Randomly lynching and trying to find scum isn't a good scum-finding tactic, Diakron.
Unvote. Vote Jetsquirrel.
Lurking be bad, yo.
last time i checked we are trying to lynch scum, not lurkers.
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You'd rather you we'd lynch you? Because that unvote there saved your dear life. At least try to pretend you still care about this game.
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You'd rather you we'd lynch you? Because that unvote there saved your dear life. At least try to pretend you still care about this game.
who are you to decide if i "care about this game"?
MY FUCKING HAND IS COVERED IN BANDAGES!! HOW THE HELL CAN I TYPE WITH ONE HAND AND MY OFFHAND AT THAT? DAMN IT! I ASKED PEOPLE TO BE CONSIDERATE ABOUT THAT BUT ALL I AM HEARING NOW IS: WHY DON'T YOU GIVE US MORE INFO DIAKRON... I WISH I COULD BUT MY HAND GETS TIRED!
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Then ask for a replacement or stop getting mad when we refuse to lynch you.
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There's a difference between "Don't care anymore" and "having a hard time typing", btw.
The first I prod then replace. The second is just something to adapt to.
If I were the town, and I'm not, but if I was, i would pull back and decide "Is this person lying about their reason?"
If I believed they were lying , I would vote for them and leave it at that.
If I believe they were honest, I would let it go and get back to hunting those that DO look bad, since pressuring a townie into quitting is wasting time the town does not have.
In other words: DON'T force a person to be replaced due to their posting style.
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Current Vote:
Jetsquirrel[2]: Tehstefan, Dr. Johbson
Diakron[1]: ExKirby
Dr. Johbson[1]: Diakron
Not Voting: Criptfeind, Jetsquirrel, RedWarrior0, Webadict
Deadline: Tuesday, 06 11am EST
There are about 11 hours left to the day.
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@MOD: Do we lynch only if we get necessary votes, or the majority of them?
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So long as one person is ahead of the others, that person is lynched.
I.e. if the day ended now, it would be Jetsquirrel
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ExKirby, do you think that dakarian was justified in modkilling Pandarsenic?
This is eduren's initial vote. Occasionally, scum will vote their partner first or some other time during the first Day. I say occasionally because this isn't a for-sure thing. Many for-sure things are active lurking and passivity. Anyhow, I don't see eduren as the type to do something like that. The more passive ones avoid voting each other (This is known as distancing) or even voting in general (This is simply a form of active lurking.) At least, early in the game.
While his initial "Beginners always scum" comment does seem odd, its hardly condemning. I think that we still have many lurkers and that while further questioning of diakron may reveal something, he does not seem scum in my eyes.
My vote stays on ExKirby because I want him to answer my question.
Vector:
... This ruins the point, but it's because I want to see what happens as I press his "partner" and keep my vote on him. I don't trust either of them.
I must have missed something, what is the scum team?
Something like this. His comment is overly complicated, passive, and cautious. This is what we're looking for. I, however, might see something...
Criptfeind: You basically did what Web told you to do. Unless I see some original thinking, I will be forced to investigate further. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Honestly he could be either I would even say he was the cop if the cop was not killed. But I think at this time there is a slightly bigger chance of him being townie because his outburst, although that would be a great play for the mafia I think it would be too risky.
Also to set the record straight you were in my top two list of my suspicions before WA told us watch you.
Right now I feel that either WA or you are mafia, possibly both. Personably I think WA has a higher chance to be mafia, but I think if he is not he will be of a greater use to the town than you. So vote eduren.
Overly complicated analysis and third vote on eduren (The third vote has a significantly higher chance of being mafia than most other votes.) I'm not even sure what he meant in this post. He's saying I'm more likely to be scum but I'd be more helpful as town, so he voted for eduren.
Sorry about that I caught a nasty cold; I was in bed most of the last couple days. I still am sick but I will try to check here more often.
I will join you guys in your Fos on Diakron, but I suspect that it was just a newbie mistake. On the other hand he is really over reacting to it.
This is also active lurking.
He's also been regular lurking in addition to this. He's trying to lie low. He's being passive and cautious, just like eduren. criptfiend.
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Hmm, you're right again. The scum wouldn't bother voting with this few many votes, if the towns already going to lynch it's self.
Definitely better than my 'Kill-The-People-Who-Aren't-Talking' plan. Fine, fine.
Unvote. Vote Criptfiend.
FOS Jetsquirrel, Redwarrior and Diakron too while I'm at it.
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Current Vote:
Jetsquirrel[1]: Tehstefan
Diakron[1]: ExKirby
Dr. Johbson[1]: Diakron
Criptfiend[2]: Webadict, Dr. Johbson
Not Voting: Criptfeind, Jetsquirrel, RedWarrior0
Deadline: Tuesday, 06 11am EST
There are about 2 hours left to the end of the day.
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Unvote Vote: Criptfiend
It was better than my lurking strategy, it seems you have been overanalyzing posts, and while most of this is minor, its starting to show a pattern. Besides, its better than my shot in the dark on lurkers.
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tick tock people
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The regular debate that rises and falls among the Merchants is suddenly dispelled by hostility as Criptfiend is shoved into the middle of the room. Webadict shoots a look that can kill at him.
"You murderer, " Webadict yells.
"I swear! It's not what you think. I swear it," Criptfiend replies.
Tehstefan steps in between them, "What's the meaning of this?"
Webadict turns to Tehstefan, saying "This is my meaning." He suddenly throws an object at him.
Tehstefan jumps back with a gasp, but the object hits the floor before reaching him. It's a knife, small and easy to conceal.
Criptfiend speaks with a panicked pace, "It's mine, bubut it's not what you think. I didn't kill anyone!"
Dr. Johbson steps in on the matter, "But it was that scum that was knived. What's the matter with that?"
Webadict shakes his head before replying, "The door was locked when we left him and opened when we came in. If the maid didn't do it then whoever did can unlock doors at will. Besides, with none of us owning up to the kill, that means.."
Tehstefan finishes, "..the one that did it didn't want anyone to know they're willing and able to."
A deep silence hangs in the meeting room as the three turn to look at Criptfiend. The accused shakes his head saying, "no.. no, you can't leave me in that room. I'll die in there!" A hand reaches out to grab his shoulder, but he shakes it off and breaks into a run. Before anyone could react, he runs out the door.
Not long after that, a yell is heard from outside the room, followed by a thump. The merchants run towards the noises.
In a nearby hall, the young maid stands still, her eyes as wide as teacups. Next to her is one of the larger men of the security guard holding a billy club. Criptfiend was sprawled on the floor in front of them, his head cracked open and his eyes staring at the wall blankly.
There wasn't too much to say after that. Criptfiend is taken care of by the hotel staff. As they drag the body away, the maid notices a badge (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/arbadges/blexmed.htm)placed on his shirt, normally covered by his long coat.
"A shame," she says, "Good medical staff is hard to come by these days. I think you merchants made a mistake with this one."
Webadict asks, "But what about this knife?"
The maid ponders for a bit before answering, "When you don't have a lot of tools, you can do alot to save someone's life with a knife."
The words hung heavy on you as you walk back to your rooms. Not even the warm beds will do much to help you get to sleep.
Criptfeind, Doctor, has been lynched.
It is now night. Those with night actions, please send me your choices.
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Jetsquirrel has just notified me that he needs a replacement.
Apostolic Nihilist shall now replace Jetsquirrel.
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Another scream. Another dead body, ExKirby's this time, found by the maid who now looks completely unnerved.
As you step into the meeting room, you now ponder how even these events now feel routine.
ExKirby, townie, has died in the night.
It is now Day 4.
Deadline: Thursday, 8th, 11am EST.
Survivors:
Diakron
Tehstefan
Dr. Johbson
Apostolic Nihilist
RedWarrior0
Webadict
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Dr. Johbson must die!!!
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Well, hell. The doctor is dead, and now so is another normal townie. After reading through some select player's posts thus far, I have found a few more things I would like to comment on.
First, the obvious. Webadict, you're not dead yet, and our doctor is gone. Thoughts, comments? I'm also seeing you attack people less than you usaully do, which was fine for the first day or two, but you still seem lax, and too kind, for day four.
Second, Diakron, I know you're hurt and all that, but I'm sure you're still able to bring up a small list of what you think. You obviously still think I'm scum, would be great if you could share that and more with us all.
Third, RedWarrior, you are not going to escape my wrath this turn. You haven't posted anything useful in..Well, since day one.
Apostolic Nihilist, tell us what you think/believe. Please try to show up more than Jet did. :P
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Too kind for day four, even if you are an IC*
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Well, hell. The doctor is dead, and now so is another normal townie. After reading through some select player's posts thus far, I have found a few more things I would like to comment on.
First, the obvious. Webadict, you're not dead yet, and our doctor is gone. Thoughts, comments? I'm also seeing you attack people less than you usaully do, which was fine for the first day or two, but you still seem lax, and too kind, for day four.
Second, Diakron, I know you're hurt and all that, but I'm sure you're still able to bring up a small list of what you think. You obviously still think I'm scum, would be great if you could share that and more with us all.
Third, RedWarrior, you are not going to escape my wrath this turn. You haven't posted anything useful in..Well, since day one.
Apostolic Nihilist, tell us what you think/believe. Please try to show up more than Jet did. :P
It's less to do about me being lax as it does about me not being here. (And blame Alexhans...)
Anyhow, I'd think this was meant to set me up. I figured I was dead as soon as the Doctor was dead, because that seemed like the only reason I was alive, but perhaps they think they can keep me alive to get me lynched. I believe you said:
Webadict does shiny better light on the matter of the questions I didn't answer. Suppose I don't have much to lose, so I shall answer them now.
Who would I inspect, if I were a cop? Webadict, for sure. He is, indeed, an expert, and I would need to know his status ASAP.
This probably answers the other question too, I would indeed try to get rid of webadict ASAP. However, I would have to keep in mind, that getting him lynched might be an even better idea. If I believed I could stay alive and un-scummy-ish, I would believe he would be a perfect person to have lynched, preferable latter then sooner.
Well, I hope that helped some of you. I personally think I look suspicious now, but you did ask for what I thought.
You yourself said you'd try to get me lynched. Would that make you more suspicious than normal? I doubt it. I'd assume it's someone else.
Dr. Johbson must die!!!
You can't keep doing this, Diakron. This doesn't help at all. Why is Dr. Johbson suspicious and how the heck is it less suspicious than you doing that? Or what you've been doing the entire time?
work, work, work, all day long
work, work, work, while i sing this song
o sorry Unvote. ExKirby do you believe that people can be mafia in back to back games ran by the same person (ie beginners 1 and 2)?
I don't know, can they?
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Alright, I got the response I wanted, so, thanks for that.
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By force of the mod, Redwarrior0 is removed.
I will now need a replacement for him.
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*Sigh* Alright, well, unvote for now then.
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By force of the mod, Redwarrior0 is removed.
I will now need a replacement for him.
...? Can we vote for him or not? If not, would it not be better to modkill him?
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Oh sorry.
Redwarrior the PLAYER is out. His in-game persona still exists. You can do with him as you wish while I look for a replacement.
I won't modkill for lurking since that greatly hurts the town if he's town and utterly destroys the scum if he's scum. I won't 'protect' him because you may wish to lynch him due to his past actions.
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Oh sorry.
Redwarrior the PLAYER is out. His in-game persona still exists. You can do with him as you wish while I look for a replacement.
I won't modkill for lurking since that greatly hurts the town if he's town and utterly destroys the scum if he's scum. I won't 'protect' him because you may wish to lynch him due to his past actions.
Okay. I was just making sure.
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I didn't actually notice I had been chosen as the replacement, but yeah, so I'm just browsing through right now. Trying to juggle several mafia games is surprisingly interesting, especially with (some) of the same people playing.
I'll have a post with my thoughts/opinions up in an hour or so.
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Webadict strikes me as exceptionally scummy. Every step of the way, he's been leading the assault on innocent townies, save for Eduren. Now, having both ICs as scum is unlikely, but alignment was chosen randomly, so it's not to say that it's impossible.
I'm almost certain that Vector would've deduced something like this (he was easily the second-most experienced in this game); he was nightkilled before Eduren was determined as scum.
Diakron is also a possibility, and Johbson, but if they are scum, I consider them less of a threat. Diakron's outburst seemed scummy, and it did seem planned (to me, at least); he was gloating about how clever he was several posts earlier. Sadly, I think voting him will end up getting another innocent townie lynched, so I'd like to avoid that if possible.
Lynching webadict now is really our only option — if we don't lynch him now and he's scum, we're as good as dead. If we do lynch him now and he isn't scum, we've lost a valuable townie but we can still recover. He'll likely wait for a bandwagon to form around someone else, (or form one himself) and direct his flock towards it, then take out two people tonight (one lynch, one NK).
Actually, looking back, Eduren's behaviour is suspicious. It's scummy, that's for sure, and it's a clever sort of scummy. Webadict was the one who attacked him initially (I think? He was certainly the one who lead the charge), and from there Eduren's arguments devolved more and more into archetypal scum arguments.
I think the both of them collaborated to make webadict look completely innocent; eliminating scum so early on via sound deduction is townie, and indeed, it's even within webadict's ability, but therein lies the problem: it's also the least suspicious thing you can possibly do, and that makes it suspicious.
Note also, that webadict's activity died down after he eliminated the major threats (Vector, Eduren). It didn't quite reach 'active lurking' levels, and it doesn't really mean anything (he probably didn't have any leads and didn't want to post incomplete reasoning), but it still seems strange.
I think we should hold off on suspecting the lurkers; if webadict flips town then we hit them. Eduren's lynch seemed too easy because it was; webadict knew he was scum from the beginning, and Eduren purposely acted scummy so webadict's reasoning didn't seem to be completely godlike.
To summarize, webadict is playing a very dangerous game of Xanatos Roulette. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosRoulette)
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While, I would agree that that's a good option, but I'd much rather prefer to find scum. That is normally a good option, especially if you had a Cop or some other power role. So far as I can tell, I'm not sure if all of you could find scum without me. I think I'd be better being night killed than lynched.
So, let's answer some of these concerns, shan't we?
Lynching me isn't the only option. It certainly is an option, yes, and we do have extra lynches in store. In fact, if you really want, you can lynch me tomorrow. It won't be lylo, and I can spend one more Day trying to find the scum.
And eduren? You think I orchestrated that? I think you severely underestimate me. One, I'd never take credit for that shoddy "acting." Two, I'd certainly never try to have him accuse me like that. And three, I'd probably make sure he was actually looking town-like.
Your plan is faulty in that it relies on lynching lurkers. The lurkers aren't helping us, but that doesn't make them scum. Getting replacements (Like you) helps. You could actually try lynching scummy people instead.
And I've been busy since then. Just lots of hanging out. Anniversaries and what-not. I'm trying to get here every once in a while... Sheesh. Picky.
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Yes; my argument is quite forced for the most part, but as town, we're in a bad situation right now. If you really are scum, it would be nearly impossible to convince people to lynch you unless you do something ridiculously damning.
I don't think that Redwarrior is scum, simply because if people are scum they tend to not lose interest in the game so quickly. Most people feel more 'obligated' or at least are more interested in playing if they're a role like that.
We really need to draw out the lurkers, though. I'm going to hold off on lynching you until tomorrow. If you are NK'd tonight (by all means, you should be; the doctor is dead), then I suppose we're back to square one. Assuming you're town, you're dead either way, so we might as well focus on finding lying scum.
Diakron is really the only one who seems scummish to me right now, aside from you (and the lurkers). Johbson seems town (could be bias since he came to the same conclusion that I did...).
I don't want to have a repeat of day 1 of Not-So-Beginner Mafia, though, where we lynch someone who just seems ridiculously scummy and they flip town, so I'm hesitant to vote for him. We still have time so I suppose we can wait for the lurkers to post.
Actually, webadict, if you aren't NK'd perhaps we should suspect Johbson. If, as you said, you are being 'set up', then it makes sense that the scum would post something to suggest that you're guilty. There's always the chance that the townies wouldn't figure it out, and the mafia needs you lynched or at the very least NK'd.
...Of course, there's also the possibility that you orchestrated this. [/WIFOM]
Unvote.
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Just pointing this out, but:
By force of the mod, Redwarrior0 is removed.
I will now need a replacement for him.
...? Can we vote for him or not? If not, would it not be better to modkill him?
This is pretty innocuous, so I'm not going to base any reasoning on it, but it's sort of scummy to suggest modkilling a player instead of replacing him if there's a chance that he's mafia.
After all, that would effectively end the game. The only way for you to know that he isn't mafia would be if you were mafia.
But that's really nitpicky; if it were anyone but webadict who said this, I'd probably jump on them and try to pressure them into saying something, but that'd never work with him.
If someone else feels like pursuing this further, go ahead.
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...actually, disregard that. I'm going to go to bed now instead of mulling over individual posts without viewing the context.
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I'm not quite sure why you FOS'ed me, Apostolic. You said yourself that we both came to the same conclusion regarding Webadict, then you say I'm suspicious because I brought my views up.
Alright, he's my attempt at a small WOT of thought. Try to follow along, I am not too great with words. Tell me if you need someone re-explained.
So! Day One, we have random voting, me looking scummy-ish, and Webadict clearing the heat off me ever so slightly, but its a Beginner game, and I am a beginner, so, nothing to think TOO hard on. But I still mentioned it here, if any of you savvy types noticed that.
RedWarrior seemed like that kind of person who cheers from the sidelines, if you know what I mean. Well, you probably don't, so here are some examples.
What a looming question to ask. Seems like a lose/lose situation for me, too, if I answer it.
How so?
I'd like to know that too.
Also, FoS Dr. Johbson for the reasons Vector voted him.
Yes, they are both regarding me, and are both horrible examples of scummy-ness, and its not like we have many of his posts to go by, seeing as how I quoted half of them right there. But thats not the point, this is just an example of what I meant. He also never asked anything too deep and never pressured too much. Seems like trying to stay out of the spotlight, there.
Let's see, whos next. Well, why not a mention of Eduren? I re-read his posts the other day. In hindsight, he was scummy. I don't think I have to talk too much about this mate, so I won't. Just throwing that out there.
Uhm..TehStefen or something. I don't think I got any bad vibes off this guy. Seems to be scum hunting and all that nice stuff.
Diakron. Is Diakron, meaning scummy in nature but nothing too deep. Next!
I didn't think too much of ExKirby. If I remember correctly, I would have put him under my "Slightly Scummy List," But then again, I would have probably put myself in there if I could.
See my last cryptic post about what I thought about Webadict.
I'll have more thoughts on our newcomer soon.
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Is there some talk about replacing here?
If there is, I want in!
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You need to stay out, because you've accessed the Dead Chat.
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The toughest part of mafia is analyzation. That's the basis of this game. You must analyze every post, move, and play. No, it's not possible to look over every little piece of information. It's lurkers that ruin the game though, because they can't be analyzed. RedWarrior0's said so little, we can hardly get a real look at what he's thinking.
I think he's simply abandoned this game. I've seen him in other games and we either need to replace him, lynch him, or modkill him. Not the best solutions, but his absence isn't helping us.
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I'm not quite sure why you FOS'ed me, Apostolic. You said yourself that we both came to the same conclusion regarding Webadict, then you say I'm suspicious because I brought my views up.
You're suspicious only if webadict is town. If he's scum, then you were spot-on and completely accurate. My point was that scum would likely try and frame webadict, trying to get him lynched, by leaving several clues leading to him. If the citizenry didn't pick up on the clues, then one of them would have to step forth and point it out.
So! Day One, we have random voting, me looking scummy-ish, and Webadict clearing the heat off me ever so slightly, but its a Beginner game, and I am a beginner, so, nothing to think TOO hard on. But I still mentioned it here, if any of you savvy types noticed that.
RedWarrior seemed like that kind of person who cheers from the sidelines, if you know what I mean. Well, you probably don't, so here are some examples.
What a looming question to ask. Seems like a lose/lose situation for me, too, if I answer it.
How so?
I'd like to know that too.
Also, FoS Dr. Johbson for the reasons Vector voted him.
Yes, they are both regarding me, and are both horrible examples of scummy-ness, and its not like we have many of his posts to go by, seeing as how I quoted half of them right there. But thats not the point, this is just an example of what I meant. He also never asked anything too deep and never pressured too much. Seems like trying to stay out of the spotlight, there.
He's a beginner, of course. I think we can clear him simply because Dakarian was quite quick to replace him (or at least try to); his lack of activity is suspicious, but it's also a viable mafia tactic; most hosts would be hesitant to replace scum using scummy tatics; now, town on the other hand...
Let's see, whos next. Well, why not a mention of Eduren? I re-read his posts the other day. In hindsight, he was scummy. I don't think I have to talk too much about this mate, so I won't. Just throwing that out there.
Yes; looking back at his posts, he was exceptionally scummy for the most part. (This is how most scum posts are once you know they were made by scum, though). Taking out scum so early on, lead by our own IC, webadict; it probably 'proved' he was town to most of the newbs. Furthermore, it gives us a fighting chance, having only one scum to worry about (albeit one of the most skilled...); maybe they thought it was unfair to have both ICs be mafia, so they devised that plan?
Uhm..TehStefen or something. I don't think I got any bad vibes off this guy. Seems to be scum hunting and all that nice stuff.
Diakron. Is Diakron, meaning scummy in nature but nothing too deep. Next!
Agreed. Diakron is somewhat scummy, but he's -always- somewhat scummy. The only thing that stands out is how his 'outburst' seemed so fake. Diakron prided himself on his cleverness posts earlier, and I'm sure we all know how easy it is to fake emotions on the internet. His typing style makes me think that he's not scum, simply because such an advanced ploy is too risky -- there are easier ways to 'prove' your innocence.
I didn't think too much of ExKirby. If I remember correctly, I would have put him under my "Slightly Scummy List," But then again, I would have probably put myself in there if I could.
Looking more at ExKirby's recent behaviour in other games, I'd agree with you here. He's clearly just a newb so he always acts scummy.
...I'm going to vote for webadict again.
If he's town, he knows he'll die tonight from the NK; lynching him won't really affect anything. We'll lose a townie, but we would've lost him anyways.
If he's scum, then he's probably already thought up a plan to divert attention away from himself when he doesn't die.
As town, we have three choices:
A) Lynch webadict. This is the one I'm going for; it probably isn't right, but we only have hunches to go off of right now.
B) Lynch someone else. This could work, but who? Lurkers aren't inherently scummy, especially in a newbie game, and the only other active person is Dr.Johbson (and myself, I suppose); Diakron isn't worth lynching.
C) Don't lynch anyone.
This could be dangerous. It could be our best choice, but it effectively just boils down to 'waiting it out', which is something town should never resort to. One more NK isn't going to give us much evidence; we need to push on with what we have.
Unvote; vote webadict.
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Actually, waiting it out tends to reveal things about the scum. Unless the scum kills randomly. There's not really any problem with NLing unless it were lylo. NLing, however, has 0% chance of hitting scum, as well as NKs, as opposed to lynching, which has a much higher chance. There's a mafiascum article about it.
No, Dr.Johbson would have to be a fool or dastardly cunning to be scum. He's too... I don't know. Too conspicuous to be scum. And since you were replaced, it means that you aren't likely to be scum. Which means it's either Diakron or tehstefan.
If you feel the need to lynch me, then at least lynch Diakron tomorrow. Well, just consider Diakron extremely suspicious. Do not immediately bandwagon him. I just get a bad feeling about him... I can never explain them, but... whatever. If Diakron comes up town, then finish with tehstefan. I can't get a read on him. Or someone else, I suppose.
And I disagree with your analysis on Diakron. If he's always scummy in every game he plays, then he's bound to be scum in one of them. I think this is the game. He's played more often than most of the players here. Everyone knows I look the scummiest when I'm alive too long. I think he'd know that too.
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I have to disagree with you Apostolic. Diakron is a much better lynch than Webadict, if only for the simple reason that if Diakron's scum, we win. Should he flip town, it brings up two scenarios.
One, webadict gets NK, and that's the end of that.
Or, Webadict doesn't get NK'd. In that case, we can see who does get NK'd, and go from there. Diakron would be a much better hunch lynch than one of our most active members, who's contributed a lot to our scum hunting.
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EBWOP: Also I have beef with one of your statements. Vector was one of the people who spearheaded the assault on Eduren, and knew he was scum. He wasn't NK'd before the flip. Though you may mean he was NK'd before he could talk about the flip.
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EBWOP again: I wanted to check over if I'd already done this, but since I hadn't Diakron
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I'll join you with voting Diakron but only if you assure me that you'll vote webadict if he isn't NK'd, no matter what he says tomorrow. The only reason I want to get rid of him now is because if he is scum and he isn't NK'd tonight, there's a high chance that he'll find some way to get out of being lynched tomorrow.
So, if he isn't NK'd tonight, lynch him tomorrow unless there is completely damning evidence on someone else, and furthermore, don't listen to his reasoning, no matter how he tries to spin things. Lynching him tomorrow is going to be more difficult because we'll need more cooperation on the part of the players.
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Hmm. My only problem with that, is of course, the mafia. Its never good to try and give ultimatums, because, the mafia can read them. If I agree, and the mafia see's that, they they know, they don't have to NK him, they can just nk someone else, and let the town lynch him. Sure, its somewhat of a WIFOM, but now that its out in the open, we can't do it. I will put harsh suspicion on him, but I won't guarantee a lynch. That'd just be bad for the town.
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JUST noticed that the deadline had already reached. WAY too little chatter when there's so few people :P
(getting distracted over a few games doesn't help)
Final Vote Count:
Dr. Johbson[1]: Diakron
Diakron[2]: Webadict, Tehstefan
Webadict[1]: Apostolic Nihilist
You suddenly realize that night has fallen and no one pushed you out. Where is the maid?
Instead, the guard that you met the other day looks on at you, "I'll be taking care of things tonight. Who is the target?"
In a panic, no one speaks. Instead, the Merchants fling fingers at each other. The guard notices that two are pointed at Diakron.
"That'll do. Everyone leave us." He grabs a hold of Diakron, who is too terrorized to run. In contrast, everyone else is too terrorized to stay.
As they gather from the room, Diakron's words to the guard can be heard, "Why do they always suspect me. Even my clients swear I'm up to no good. Do I even look mafia?"
The guard chuckles as he raises his billy club, "That's why the mafia would never pick you. You'd never fool anyone."
Unable to stop what is happening in the Room, everyone decides to run back to their beds. No one will sleep tonight.
Diakron, townie, has been lynched.
It is now night.
Night choices, send me your choices.
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Redwarrior0, Townie, has been killed in the night.
Yes, 5 days and nights = writer out of ammo :P
Survivors:
Tehstefan
Dr. Johbson
Apostolic Nihilist
Webadict
Deadline: Tuesday, 13th, 11am EST
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We are officially in Lylo.
Now. We are confronted with two choices.
One, we lynch Webadict. There had been several good reasons to do this, he's an IC, he's led most the attacks on townies, and he's a prime NK target. This does add up to a lot.
The problem, of course, is that deal we made. The mafia could be playing us if we lynch him, expecting us to do that. So, we can't rush into the kill. However, we have to think, could he be doing this?
So, Webadict, I have to ask, who are your scum choices, why are they those, and why aren't you a good lynch?
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tehstefan, you are dirty scum.
You jumped on the Diakron bandwagon and killed an innocent townie. I thought you were going to NK Johbson, but you went after the inactive player, which surprised me.
You could've lynched me and tried to frame webadict, but I suppose such an elementary ploy was too risky. Rather, you needed someone who you were sure would lynch webadict with you; that person was me.
Arguably, webadict is still suspicious (voting Diakron in the first place, for one...), but he's done everything a townie would do. You, on the other hand...
Let's assume you're scum, and you've voted for Diakron.
Here are your NK options:
NK Apostolic Nihilist. You lose someone who was almost certainly going to lynch webadict today.
NK webadict. When he flips town, you have to convince the remaining players that one of them is scum. You'd probably target redwarrior, but this is inherently risky.
NK Johbson. He flips town. You're left with someone who is definitely going to lynch webadict, a player who abandoned the game, and webadict. All you have to do is side with Apostolic Nihilist (me) and vote webadict, then kill him off at night. Pretty much perfect, unless I go against my word.
NK redwarrior. This is what you did. You lynched an inactive player (Why? I'm not sure. Maybe you wanted to frame webadict even more. One of my past theories was that he got rid of Eduren early on because having a game where both ICs were scum was too 'hard' for a beginner game. Lynching the inactive player would give the remaining players a chance, something that an IC should do, right?). This ultimately means that you have 3 alive people to figure out what just happened. Fortunately one of those people seems to be going after webadict blindly; if you side with him, the worst that can happen is a tie, and then you can take out another one of us tonight. Tomorrow there'll be 3 people, one of them will be webadict. You'll side with me again, we'll lynch him, he'll flip town, then you'll kill me in the night. A perfect mafia victory.
TEHSTEFAN, YOU WILL BE DEAD BY THE END OF TODAY, DIRTY MAFIA SCUM.
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Your calling me scum, yet you only go by my possible actions, not what I've been doing. Why not back up your accusation with facts, rather than yelling at me in all caps? That strategy could go just as well with you, considering you have it all plotted out. In fact, its more suspicous of you to spend so much time plotting how to win, instead of accusing me based on past actions. Perhaps we were wrong, and you really are scum. Already accusing me baselessly, hoping to get a quick lynch. Nice try, scum.
Apostolic Nihilist Why not prove me wrong by giving some substantial reasons, instead of baseless conjecture?
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EBWOP: Also, I have beef with the fact you already went back on your word. You want to lynch Webadict, but all the sudden, now I'm the scum? I find it hilarious that your so fickle scum.
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Hardly. I didn't intend to lynch webadict; that was a ploy to draw out scum, and it worked. Now you're desperately trying to salvage your rapidly sinking plan by directing everyone at me.
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A ploy. Right. Honestly every post you make makes you simply look worse and worse, grasping at straws trying to lynch me. You have yet to answer my question. How about you do that before you start accusing me of scumhood?
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I'm in the process of doing that right now. I'll have a post up in half an hour to an hour explaining why you're scum, just wait. It took a while to scan through 20 pages but some interesting patterns shone through.
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Redwarrior, I must ask, whats the reason for asking that question? It does seem rather loaded.
This was one of your first posts. Two people had pointed out this behaviour before you; there are plenty more important things to do than badger someone who's already being badgered. This is a null tell, as you're just following the crowd, but that's a mistake in itself.
Actually, that makes you more townie in my eyes. You didn't try and futz around the issue, you stated plainly what you would do, and it made sense. Best of all, you didn't seem to lie, so that's points for you.
This is obviously just an early attempt at buddying.
Sooo....since he's leaving, best start scumhunting again. Leads me to this question, what reads are you getting, and why?
I've gotten two reads I'm confident enough on sharing right now,
Vector: Agressive, pushing, both to me are good town tells, even if you tend to tunnelvision.
Webadict: So far, I'm leaning town on him, he tends to be pretty good about being helpful, and scumhunting.
Less strongly,
Dr Johnson: I like how he didn't dodge the question, and answered them all, even if he was a bit dodgy at first. Leaning town on him, if only somewhat.
The rest, I haven't gotten enough on, so Major Sephiroth, whats your opinion on things now?
No mention of Eduren. Gee, isn't that strange? Looking back, you haven't mentioned him at all yet. Not once. Distancing yourself from your partner, perhaps?
Vote Count:
ExKirby[2]: Eduren, , Tehstefan
RedWarrior0[2]:Dr. Johbson, Daikron
Diakron[2]:, Vector, Webadict
Webadict[1]: Criptfeind
Not voting: Major_Sephiroth, Jetsquirrel, ExKirby, RedWarrior0,
Deadline: Today at 11am EST
There are less than 10 hours left.
Yet suspiciously, you both came to the same conclusion regarding ExKirby! Actually, this was a bandwagon on your part, you just re-used Eduren's argument without quoting him or mentioning his name.
You bring up a good point, he is not contributing much. Eduren, why not give us some analyze of the posts so far, and who's on your scum list? We could do with a scent to track right now.
This was your first communication with him throughout the entire game. I wouldn't be surprised if one of you realized, "Hey, maybe completely avoiding each other up until page 11 was pretty strange! We better at least acknowledge each other!"
How many votes to lynch guys?
In any case, I'm not so sure Eduren is scum. My problem is that it seems a bit too, well easy. He's an IC, surely he wouldn't be be so silly as to expose himself so soon? Perhaps its just me, but this seems far too quick for my liking.
As to the question Eduren asked me, I get a feeling that he's actually town, he blew up far too easily, if he were scum, he'd try and cool down, not go nuclear like that. Just my two cents on this issue.
And Exkirby, I have a question. Who do you think are scum and why? I don't think I've seen you contribute one thing to this discussion, so hearing why you believe Eduren to be lynch worthy would be interesting.
Unvote
Diakron: Your actions Day 1 definitely seemed scummy as already shown by Vector. I think that you got off easy with your outburst.
Tehstefan: You are going after a confirmed absentee(ist?)(I would'nt call it lurking since he's never on). This is a safe move because your questions are only answered sparingly and can be easily lost in the intervening noise. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Criptfeind: You basically did what Web told you to do. Unless I see some original thinking, I will be forced to investigate further. What do you think of Diakron? Frustrated townie or overly defensive mafia?
Web: Trying to off your competition I see. Everyone, there is a large possibility that he is targeting the most experienced first, in order to lead his flock of newbies off a cliff. If he hasn't manipulated you all into a lynch then look for me to die tonight.
Vector: You seemed confident in lynching Diakron Day 1. Has his outburst changed your view of him or something? If he is still scum in your mind, why have you held off on voting him today?
I will get to everybody else in the morning.
Looking over my thoughts, I'm going to give webadict a chance to respond. But if it isn't to my liking I will vote you.
He FoS's you with little reason. Criptfeind blindly followed Web; at least you were trying to find scum on your on. Going after the inactive players is strange, sure, but not as strange as following the crowd. Eduren messed up here; he realized the lack of communication between you two was going to end up lynching one or both of you, eventually. He tries to make everyone think, "I've been watching him all along, you see!" by emblazoning a blue FoS onto you.
EBWOP: Also, you know telling us about your meta data might have been useful beforehand, not just right now? Its kind of important to tell us everything you know about the target.
Vote: Eduren
I find your lack of helpfulness disconcerting, you hardly have given any sort of advice, you've been active lurking, I've failed to see you scum hunt at all, and when you do, you give no reasons for it.
Also, I say Diakron is town, in my post, yet I'm blindly following him when he says to kill him? I fail to see how your arguement holds up in this regard!
Now, this was the final vote cast on Eduren. You realized he was going down, and you panicked. You did one of the worst things possible — you jumped on the bandwagon. The only worse thing you could've done would've been to outright defend him.
Also, here you think that Diakron is town. After Eduren is lynched, you change your opinion around and say his behaviour was suspicious, bandwagoning with webadict.
Webadict, from what I've seen, I highly doubt you just bussed your scum buddy so soon in the game. So, as far as one can be, your townie. Doesn't mean I won't be watching you, but good catch with Eduren.
Now, as for our next target, perhaps it'd be good to look back on the thread, and watch whats happening.
Jetsquirrel who is the other scum in your opinion? We haven't heard from you at all lately.
Now you're trying to buddy up with web. It's just you now, your scum buddy is gone, you need to gain someone's trust. Webadict calls you out on this strange behaviour a few posts later.
Hmm. My only problem with that, is of course, the mafia. Its never good to try and give ultimatums, because, the mafia can read them. If I agree, and the mafia see's that, they they know, they don't have to NK him, they can just nk someone else, and let the town lynch him. Sure, its somewhat of a WIFOM, but now that its out in the open, we can't do it. I will put harsh suspicion on him, but I won't guarantee a lynch. That'd just be bad for the town.
This was your last post of importance. You tell me, "Hey, you shouldn't say anything for sure, I mean, the mafia will use it to their advantage!"
Your plan, of course, hinged on me keeping to my word. "Now that it's out in the open, we can't do it."
"EBWOP: Also, I have beef with the fact you already went back on your word. You want to lynch Webadict, but all the sudden, now I'm the scum? I find it hilarious that your so fickle scum."
Uh, you just told me that we can't follow that plan. Captain, what am I supposed to do?! ???
You're clearly the one grasping at straws, here, contradicting yourself left and right.
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...
WHAT. THE. FLIP!
Okay, as much as pointing fingers is awesome and will lead us to nowhere, we've got one GOOD option. That's No Lynching. That way, scum kills and we're down to a REAL lylo (I thought we had 7 people yesterday?)
When we get to 3 people, it's much easier to find scum. But, I'll comment right now:
We are officially in Lylo.
Now. We are confronted with two choices.
One, we lynch Webadict. There had been several good reasons to do this, he's an IC, he's led most the attacks on townies, and he's a prime NK target. This does add up to a lot.
The problem, of course, is that deal we made. The mafia could be playing us if we lynch him, expecting us to do that. So, we can't rush into the kill. However, we have to think, could he be doing this?
So, Webadict, I have to ask, who are your scum choices, why are they those, and why aren't you a good lynch?
I had my scum choices... And they were all wrong. I thought it had to be RedWarrior0. He was the only one I didn't have a good enough read on.
My only question is why was RedWarrior0 killed? He was inactive and wouldn't affect the game in any way possible. I probably would've gone for him, as well. There's no way.
WHY WAS HE KILLED?!?
tehstefan, Apostolic Nihilist: No Lynch. Feel free to argue, but:
Hardly. I didn't intend to lynch webadict; that was a ploy to draw out scum, and it worked. Now you're desperately trying to salvage your rapidly sinking plan by directing everyone at me.
Honestly, that's a pretty tough gamble there. There was only two votes yesterday that lynched.
A ploy. Right. Honestly every post you make makes you simply look worse and worse, grasping at straws trying to lynch me. You have yet to answer my question. How about you do that before you start accusing me of scumhood?
Your OMGUS didn't help anything, and the way you freaked out only makes me think you're more likely scum than Apostolic. Especially with this quote:
EBWOP: Also, I have beef with the fact you already went back on your word. You want to lynch Webadict, but all the sudden, now I'm the scum? I find it hilarious that your so fickle scum.
Which is funny because I was thinking this:
NK redwarrior. This is what you did. You lynched an inactive player (Why? I'm not sure. Maybe you wanted to frame webadict even more. One of my past theories was that he got rid of Eduren early on because having a game where both ICs were scum was too 'hard' for a beginner game. Lynching the inactive player would give the remaining players a chance, something that an IC should do, right?). This ultimately means that you have 3 alive people to figure out what just happened. Fortunately one of those people seems to be going after webadict blindly; if you side with him, the worst that can happen is a tie, and then you can take out another one of us tonight. Tomorrow there'll be 3 people, one of them will be webadict. You'll side with me again, we'll lynch him, he'll flip town, then you'll kill me in the night. A perfect mafia victory.
TEHSTEFAN, YOU WILL BE DEAD BY THE END OF TODAY, DIRTY MAFIA SCUM.
And while I'm pretty sure, I'm gonna wait for tomorrow.
Also, Dr.Johbson, what say you?
Okay, everyone, here's a lesson: In games like this with no power roles, and when there's an even amount of people right before lylo (Lynch or Lose), you No Lynch. This lessens the chance of hitting town, because one town is now dead. It makes lynching the next day a little easier.
Therefore, if it's 4 people and 1 is scum, no lynch so it's 1 scum to 2 town. This can sometimes be done at higher even numbers to hep the following Days as well.
Also, nice post.
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Hmm. You bring up a few good points, but they rest on one logical fallacy. I'm town. Since your entire argument is based on my scumness, and I'm town, this means that I will simply have to demolish your argument. We will see if I do it well enough, because either the town will lose with my lynch, or I won't be lynched, and the town may still lose.
In any case, on to the rebuttle.
Your first arguement, that I distanced myself from the scum partner is not technically wrong, but lacks the fact that up until that point, he was lurking, and there was no reason to even notice him. He said very little, and gave off no real tells at that point in the game. So, why waste time telling everyone I don't have enough to read on him?
Second, that was the first day, and no one had any idea what they were doing. Notice something in your own post, Web voted for Diakron, a confirmed townie! Lawdy, that makes him scummy mcscum no?
That next point makes no sense, your basically saying the fact that I noticed his lurking makes me scum. Right. That is completely rational and rests on a logical arguement. Your grasping at straws here, and that will get us nowhere but with a dead townie.
Next, you base my scumminess off him, but in the same breath say that I was honestly scumhunting. Which is it? Scumhunting, or scum?
My voting for Eduren was based on sound arguments by the other players, yet because I voted for him, I'm scum? Once more it seems like your just trying to shove anything you have at me, rather than attack any legitimate points you may have.
Then you accuse me of buddying up with web, the IC, who led the charge on the one scum we have lynched. Right, because listening to a more experienced player is obviously scum central. I fail to see how this point holds any water, anymore than many of your own buddy posts.
As for your last point, I stand by my statement. Look who didn't die, Webadict, and now your using that arguement against me, hoping that it'll work.
Then, the little thing extra there, I find it silly you would go back on your word. A ploy, supposedly, but more likely your backtracking, and trying to find an easier lynch.
Now, Webadict's post.
No lynching is probably our best bet, like he said. Unvote No Lynch it eliminates a town player, though I don't like how one could so quickly quicklynch someone.
There, I said my piece, now I leave it to you to decide.
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Seems kind of pointless to be doing this, since everyone thinks I'm scum, but I have an idea.
Dr. Johbson.
He has to be scum. Why?
First, Webadict's post. Why wouldn't the scum jump on a bandwagon of an innocent townie, instead, proposing to move the day another day forward, bringing the scum that much closer to dying. It'd be completely foolish, and Webadict's smarter than that.
Also Apostolic isn't scum, because what scum in their right mind would start a huge argument now, right when things are at their most tense? Instead, he'd stay back, watch as the town tore itself apart, trying to lynch the right person, but not lynching the scum.
Dr. Johbson, however, has remained mute almost this entire time. He's stayed in the background, not saying much, and just coasting by. No one pays attention to him, because he hasn't voted much, and is generally mild. Just what scum should be doing. This way, the town lynches itself, and the mild mannered, quiet person in the background has just won a game.
If I'm right, either Apostolic or Web will be NK'd. No scum's going to NK me, the easy lynch for next day. One of you two would vote for me, he'd quicklynch, and then the game's over.
There's my thoughts, even though you guys won't listen to them.
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GAH, I say, gah.
Well, first, I have to say, what Webadict and Apostolic said about Tehstefan, makes alot of sense, and his replies to it seem to be paniced and defensive. (IE, Scummy)
Well, first, lets do a list of some notes I have on you mates.
Apostolic- Replaced..Someone, hunts scum with much gusto, I really don't think he's scum. Quite helpful.
Tehstefan- Everything Apostolic said about him makes much sense, and his reply made him look very, very scummy. But something doesn't feel right..
Webadict- Alright. Lets play a little game here, shall we? I'm going to propose what I saw after a few moments of thinking of a no-lynch.
At the moment, there are four people left in play. Lets say Webadict is scum, and we go for no-lynch. He nightkills, say, me.
Alright, two townies and one scum. Scum-Webadict knows that Apostolic suspects both of them, but at the moment, suspects Stefan more. All he does is have to say a few choice words, and he convices Apostolic that Stefan is scum, and he wins.
My point, being, that if we no-lynch, the scum will only have to convince ONE person that he is not scum. Thus, No-Lynching is a very, very bad idea. And, for an IC to propose such a thing..
Webadict, I had a bad feeling about you from the begining. You can guide strings no longer.
PREPOSTEDIT-wordswordswords
As you can see from this post, tefstefan does not put up a fight for not wanting to have a no lynch. Now, this can mean two things, either he is not scum as without thinking about a no-lynch, it does look like it would help the town, or, that he is scum, and he's thinking the same thing I am about only having to convince one person.
This tatic would also work less for him, because people still suspect him. If he NKed me, Web and Apostolic would believe it to be Stefan. If he were to NK Web, me and Apostolic would believe it to be stefan. If he NKed Apostolic, me and web would still think it to be stefan.
ANOTHERPREPOSTEDITDAMMITGUYS-I have a feeling this post wil change your mind about my muteness. I'll let you ask me again after this post and I'll answer it then.
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Uh, just to be clear, the 'wordswordswords' quote was relating to the post which Stefan voted for no lynch.
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Hm, you're actually going along with web's no lynch? I guess you don't have much of a choice. I wonder what you're trying to accomplish, though.
Who are you going to NK tonight?
Web? It's a possibility. It seems as though he's onto your scheme, after all. If you kill him, you'll have:
Me.
Johbson.
You.
All you have to do to win is convince me to vote Johbson, or convince Johbson to vote me. This scenario is probably the 'best' for you, you're betting on the chance that I can't get Johbson to side with me.
It's also possible you'll NK Johbson.
Then you'll be left with webadict and myself; not a good position to get yourself into. I know you're scum. Webadict's last post pretty much said that he'd vote for you if he didn't vote for a no lynch. Unless you can find some damning evidence on me, you're going to be lynched tomorrow if you take out Johbson.
If you kill me, not much changes, except I'm the second-scummiest looking person right now, so you'll have to somehow convince Johbson to vote for webadict. That could be difficult; extraordinarily so. This isn't the best choice you could make. If you NK me, you lose the 'easiest' lynch, so I'm sure this plan won't fly.
Your only option is to take out webadict tonight, and hope I don't convince Johbson of your scummyness tomorrow.
Johbson is a person who listens to reason; I have no doubt that together we'll take you out tomorrow and end this game with a town victory.
In other words: I'm fine with a no-lynch. You're simply digging a deeper hole to crawl into.
IGNORE THIS WHILE I GO OVER SOME KEY POINTS.
I'll adjust the qualms you have with my analysis in my next post.
Whoa, Jobhson; I'll address your points in the next post too.
Also, I'm going to take the time to point out that this situation is awesome.
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I have to say, Dr. Johbson, you bring up some interesting points. My problem with that is Web could very easily lynch me now. If he voted me, It would be two versus one, and the lynch would go through, effectively killing me. And Oh Apostolic I love how self assured you are. It'll be almost nice to see your face when I flip town, and either Dr. Jobhson or Web is laughing all the way to the win. Almost, because I'll lose too.
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Of, course, there is the chance that you yourself are scum, but I doubt it. I just don't get a scum vibe from you. That, or your ingenious, and should not be playing a newbie game.
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If you kill me, not much changes, except I'm the second-scummiest looking person right now, so you'll have to somehow convince Johbson to vote for webadict.
Webadict, I had a bad feeling about you from the begining. You can guide strings no longer.
...*facepalm*
Uh, so anyways. Right, back to refuting your points, DIRTY LYING SCUM TEHSTEFAN.
Hmm. You bring up a few good points, but they rest on one logical fallacy. I'm town. Since your entire argument is based on my scumness, and I'm town, this means that I will simply have to demolish your argument. We will see if I do it well enough, because either the town will lose with my lynch, or I won't be lynched, and the town may still lose.
In any case, on to the rebuttle.
Your first arguement, that I distanced myself from the scum partner is not technically wrong, but lacks the fact that up until that point, he was lurking, and there was no reason to even notice him. He said very little, and gave off no real tells at that point in the game. So, why waste time telling everyone I don't have enough to read on him?
Because other people were attacking him left and right for precisely those reasons.
Second, that was the first day, and no one had any idea what they were doing. Notice something in your own post, Web voted for Diakron, a confirmed townie! Lawdy, that makes him scummy mcscum no?
He was trying to draw Diakron out. He wasn't bandwagoning with his scumbuddy, like you were.
That next point makes no sense, your basically saying the fact that I noticed his lurking makes me scum. Right. That is completely rational and rests on a logical arguement. Your grasping at straws here, and that will get us nowhere but with a dead townie.
You noticed his lurking a bit late, wouldn't you say? Nonetheless, you're right; your statement was innocuous.
Next, you base my scumminess off him, but in the same breath say that I was honestly scumhunting. Which is it? Scumhunting, or scum?
You were pretending to scumhunt, since you're scum, you can't do 'true scumhunting'.
My voting for Eduren was based on sound arguments by the other players, yet because I voted for him, I'm scum? Once more it seems like your just trying to shove anything you have at me, rather than attack any legitimate points you may have.
It was more like, "Oh, well jeeze, I defended him a few posts ago before all this happened, but now the tables are completely turned! Better vote him to clear my suspicion."
Then you accuse me of buddying up with web, the IC, who led the charge on the one scum we have lynched. Right, because listening to a more experienced player is obviously scum central. I fail to see how this point holds any water, anymore than many of your own buddy posts.
There's a difference between listening to a more experienced player and saying,
"You're town!
...
...
Oh, but I'll keep my eye on you anyways!"
As for your last point, I stand by my statement. Look who didn't die, Webadict, and now your using that arguement against me, hoping that it'll work.
Then, the little thing extra there, I find it silly you would go back on your word. A ploy, supposedly, but more likely your backtracking, and trying to find an easier lynch.
If I'm town (as you say in your next post) then why would I want an easier lynch? I wouldn't. Rather, you found an easier lynch than even I; Johbson.
Now, Webadict's post.
No lynching is probably our best bet, like he said. Unvote No Lynch it eliminates a town player, though I don't like how one could so quickly quicklynch someone.
It does eliminate a town player, that's less people you need to manipulate to get what you want.
Web's suggestion of no lynch makes sense if we're dealing with experienced players, but given the current situation, it may not be the best thing we can do. For one, none of us are agreeing on anything. If we no-lynch and then I'm killed, it'll be easy for you to convince Johbson to go after web.
There, I said my piece, now I leave it to you to decide.
Onto Johbson... I have a feeling I should split that off into a seperate post too; this one is bulky.
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Ah, tunnelvision. It killed off quite a few games, and will be the doom of this one. You would rather focus on me, than to look for scumtells out of any other person. You would rather take me down, and lose, than open your eyes, and try to look elsewhere. There are plenty of other scumtells, but you focus on me. Look, think, analyze!
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GAH, I say, gah.
Well, first, I have to say, what Webadict and Apostolic said about Tehstefan, makes alot of sense, and his replies to it seem to be paniced and defensive. (IE, Scummy)
You can explain away his behaviour as being 'flustered townie', but that only goes so far. Right now we're dealing with someone who has seen their plan fall to pieces right before their eyes and they're trying desperately to tape it back together.
Well, first, lets do a list of some notes I have on you mates.
Apostolic- Replaced..Someone, hunts scum with much gusto, I really don't think he's scum. Quite helpful.
Tehstefan- Everything Apostolic said about him makes much sense, and his reply made him look very, very scummy. But something doesn't feel right..
You're doubting the answer, which is sort of a problem. Looking at Tehstefan, he's been sending out scumtells all along. Webadict hasn't (you can explain this away with, "He's an IC!", but surely there should've been something.)
Webadict- Alright. Lets play a little game here, shall we? I'm going to propose what I saw after a few moments of thinking of a no-lynch.
At the moment, there are four people left in play. Lets say Webadict is scum, and we go for no-lynch. He nightkills, say, me.
Alright, two townies and one scum. Scum-Webadict knows that Apostolic suspects both of them, but at the moment, suspects Stefan more. All he does is have to say a few choice words, and he convices Apostolic that Stefan is scum, and he wins.
My point, being, that if we no-lynch, the scum will only have to convince ONE person that he is not scum. Thus, No-Lynching is a very, very bad idea. And, for an IC to propose such a thing..
Webadict, I had a bad feeling about you from the begining. You can guide strings no longer.
This is completely possible. Webadict could be behind it all, but he also might not be. You have to look at it this way: we can end the game tonight. Suggesting a no-lynch is inherently a pro-town action. He could've easily jumped on the tehstefan bandwagon and killed him tonight, winning the game. The fact that he didn't means that he's either:
A) A bad scum player.
B) Town.
PREPOSTEDIT-wordswordswords
As you can see from this post, tefstefan does not put up a fight for not wanting to have a no lynch. Now, this can mean two things, either he is not scum as without thinking about a no-lynch, it does look like it would help the town, or, that he is scum, and he's thinking the same thing I am about only having to convince one person.
This tatic would also work less for him, because people still suspect him. If he NKed me, Web and Apostolic would believe it to be Stefan. If he were to NK Web, me and Apostolic would believe it to be stefan. If he NKed Apostolic, me and web would still think it to be stefan.
Except where you just said you thought it was webadict; this is where a problem arises. He only needs to convince one person that he's not scum, and he's won. Given your suspicions of webadict, this may be easier than one would think.
ANOTHERPREPOSTEDITDAMMITGUYS-I have a feeling this post wil change your mind about my muteness. I'll let you ask me again after this post and I'll answer it then.
I never saw you as particularly inactive; you're one of the most active recent posters. tehstefan was just looking for an easy lynch.
Originally, I'd say that no-lynch would be perfect. The "best" solution, we'd know for sure who was scum tomorrow.
...but Johbson's post changed my mind about that. He suspects webadict. That means if I'm NK'd, and it's down to tehstefan, webadict, and him, there's a chance of town losing.
I am 100% certain that tehstefan is scum. It's an extremely strong feeling. Part of me says, "He's a newbie, making newbie mistakes, just like ExKirby!", but I can't believe that. Not after it's gone on this long. He would've messed up earlier if he was a complete newb.
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100% really? Your that convinced, not even a shadow of a doubt? Are you really that dense? You'd ignore all the other scum tells people give off, just so you can lynch me. Ah well, if your town, losing will never feel so good, and if your scum, well, hats off. You played us all.
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Also, so you know, scum's pretty much won the game. As long as I'm not NK'd, the remaining people will vote for me, and the scum will win. So good job Apostolic, you just lost us the game. Doesn't mean I won't try and win, just means that when I flip town, hey, your the one that put this on yourself.
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100% really? Your that convinced, not even a shadow of a doubt? Are you really that dense? You'd ignore all the other scum tells people give off, just so you can lynch me. Ah well, if your town, losing will never feel so good, and if your scum, well, hats off. You played us all.
I just read through the thread again, analyzing Johbson's posts. Guess what I found out? He was a bit scummy sometimes, but every time he was scummy, you were even more.
He followed after webadict's deduction involving Criptfeind. After he posted, you posted. That's the third vote.
Scenarios like this are everywhere I look. Johbson is either a magnificent scum player, or a good town player. That's where the overlap is. Everything Johbson does is something skilled scum could do, imitating a decent town player. As for you? Not so much. You either thought too much or didn't think enough about your decisions and tried to sneak under the radar.
It's interesting to note; you've been behind Jobhson for quite some time.
He votes someone, you follow him. He contacts Eduren, you contact Eduren. He bandwagons with web, you bandwagon with web.
I can tell that you're a new scum player, but have experience with mafia. For the early part of the game, you were hesitant toward doing anything major or important by yourself, or making any major accusations. You tended to stand in other people's shadows.
If you aren't town, then I suppose I'm wrong, but there's no reason for me to be aggravated — if someone looks, breathes, and acts like scum, but they aren't scum... well, that's an unfortunate twist of fate, but that's all it is.
Also, you accuse me of tunnelvision: I would understand that if I hadn't switched my vote to you from webadict, or if I hadn't almost gone along with the no-lynch.
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Also, so you know, scum's pretty much won the game. As long as I'm not NK'd, the remaining people will vote for me, and the scum will win. So good job Apostolic, you just lost us the game. Doesn't mean I won't try and win, just means that when I flip town, hey, your the one that put this on yourself.
Gah, these posts send me into a blind fury.
THIS IS NOT HOW TOWN SHOULD ACT.
Don't try and shame someone (who has valid reason for thinking you scum) into not voting for you!
Use guilt, at the very least!
"Listen, I understand that you're dead-set on this, but if you keep your vote on me, you're messing it up for all of us. One more night will give us the time we need to figure out who's who, so just hold off for a minute. I'm sure we'll sort it through then."
works mountains better than
"You are wrong! Think of how bad it is to be wrong, hah hah!"
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Well, by now its over, so what does it matter to you? I could say whatever I wanted, and you said yourself, I'm one hundred percent scum. If that's true, nothing I can do will change things. I'm just having fun now, I tried my best, and now its just up to see where the chips fall now.
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It isn't over yet!
For one, as it stands, we'll end up not lynching anyone unless Johbson decides to change his vote. Then we'll have to wait until tomorrow to settle this (it may be better that way, depending on who you NK.)
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Hmm, maybe I'll just not NK anyone huh? Oooh, throws a wrench in your plans. Considering I'm not scum, doesn't really matter.
And of course its not over yet. But we are headed for a no lynch, and so until that happens, I can't say for certainty anything other than your going to probably vote me no matter what.
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EBWOP: Also, thank you for reacting so splendidly to those posts. Now if only the other two would do the same, I could pick the scum. In any case, your not scum. Thanks for proving that to me.
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...
Okay, let's think about this in a purely statistical point of view. There are 4 of us and 1 scum. That means there's a 25% chance of someone being scum. If we lynch, we have a 1-in-4 chance of being right and therefore winning. If we do not lynch, there's a 33% chance of someone being scum. Therefore, we have a much higher chance of winning.
It also tells us, in a WIFOM kind of way, about the scum.
But, ya know... I completely disagree with you Dr.Johbson. While the scum has to only make one person think they're scum, scum tend to be more jumpy during lylo. And with four people alive, decision-making is much harder. It's harder to find scum. It's even harder to LYNCH scum. You have to convince everyone that this person is scum. It'll take three permanent votes to lynch. So, yes it's a cushion for overzealous lynchers, but it helps scum a lot more.
But I can't blame you. I am, indeed, scummy for simply being alive. There is no doctor, so I shouldn't be alive, because my being alive only hurts scum.
Which is probably why I'm alive now. I... tend to get distracted by lurkers. It's a gamble, but seeing as how scum are down to 1 person anyhow, I think the whole game was probably a gamble.
Also, so you know, scum's pretty much won the game. As long as I'm not NK'd, the remaining people will vote for me, and the scum will win. So good job Apostolic, you just lost us the game. Doesn't mean I won't try and win, just means that when I flip town, hey, your the one that put this on yourself.
Giving up isn't going to help any team you're a part of.
Well, by now its over, so what does it matter to you? I could say whatever I wanted, and you said yourself, I'm one hundred percent scum. If that's true, nothing I can do will change things. I'm just having fun now, I tried my best, and now its just up to see where the chips fall now.
This post only makes you scummier. I really would like a No Lynch, but if everyone refuses to listen to logic, then either tehstefan or Dr.Johbson is scum. Apostolic is simply impossible. However... I'm pretty sure Dr.Johbson is town. But, I still want that No Lynch. Even though Apostolic will likely be killed, I'd much rather it happened, because it helps town more often than not.
Oh jetsquirrel, you going to be posting here anytime soon? It seems to me your lurking very well. Considering we don't have another lead, perhaps we should press the lurkers.
Web, what did Eduren's flip mean to you? Do you have any suspicions about who might be scum now that he's dead? Or are we blank slate?
It seems so much more suspicious.
Hmm, maybe I'll just not NK anyone huh? Oooh, throws a wrench in your plans. Considering I'm not scum, doesn't really matter.
And of course its not over yet. But we are headed for a no lynch, and so until that happens, I can't say for certainty anything other than your going to probably vote me no matter what.
Games I've played tend to have a 3-Day "No Death" policy where if there are no deaths for 3 Days, it's a Draw.
Defeatism is a scumtell. It's an appeal to emotion, where you're hoping someone will sympathize with your situation and save you for you. And even if you're not scum, you're not helping your team. The whole point of this game is to play, and by not playing...
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Defeatism is a scumtell. It's an appeal to emotion, where you're hoping someone will sympathize with your situation and save you for you. And even if you're not scum, you're not helping your team. The whole point of this game is to play, and by not playing...
Actually, web, I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm definitely not out of this yet, not by a long shot. Like I said, We will see where the chips fall, who gets NK'd, and who is really scum.
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The problem with a no-lynch is that if I'm killed and you can't convince Johbson to vote tehstefan, we've lost. I'm pretty adamant about this; we need his cooperation if this is to work.
I can only hope that Johbson will listen to reason.
Ideally, we convince Johbson and then we wait it out, but if we can't do that, we need to lynch tehstefan today.
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This whole Defeatism thing? Total ploy. I wanted to see who was town, and who wasn't. It was risky, but considering I was rushed, and my back against the wall, I figured I'd go for broke. Bad strategy I realize, but thats why I'm a newbie, not a IC. In any case, I bet, that he wasn't that stupid. No one is 100 percent sure someone's scum in this state, and if he wasn't, he would get mad, because he would be afraid he was actually lynching a townie. Not enough to change a vote, due to the likelihood it would be a scum ploy, but enough to get pissed off, and try to make me prove myself town. Since he did, in admirable fashion, I strongly believe he's town. Which means there are only two left, and when the NK comes, I'll know for sure. In any case, yes, bad ploy, I realize that. But it was my first thought, so I gave it a shot.
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This whole Defeatism thing? Total ploy. I wanted to see who was town, and who wasn't. It was risky, but considering I was rushed, and my back against the wall, I figured I'd go for broke. Bad strategy I realize, but thats why I'm a newbie, not a IC. In any case, I bet, that he wasn't that stupid. No one is 100 percent sure someone's scum in this state, and if he wasn't, he would get mad, because he would be afraid he was actually lynching a townie. Not enough to change a vote, due to the likelihood it would be a scum ploy, but enough to get pissed off, and try to make me prove myself town. Since he did, in admirable fashion, I strongly believe he's town. Which means there are only two left, and when the NK comes, I'll know for sure. In any case, yes, bad ploy, I realize that. But it was my first thought, so I gave it a shot.
...
I have no reaction to this. I really don't know how to respond. Mind you, this isn't, "WOW THAT IS SO CLEVER,".
...Well, I look forward to tomorrow.
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Well, I got the many reactions I wanted. Finally, something REALLY solid to go on, and not a bunch of slippery paperer mumbo jumbo.
Unvote. Vote No Lynch.
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Heh, just read the three posts above my last one. Bad time to admit to being crazy to get reactions I see.
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Uhh, yeah. Uhm, guess I should tell you guys I think old Tehstefan is scum too.
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Good. Then we're all agreed.
Unvote.
Vote no-lynch.
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I'll write something, so don't end the Day until I have.
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Uhh, yeah. Uhm, guess I should tell you guys I think old Tehstefan is scum too.
Honestly, I would've rather you said I was likely scum, because now Apostolic will be killed for sure. I was hoping either I would die, or you would die, so that Apostolic would be around.
This whole Defeatism thing? Total ploy. I wanted to see who was town, and who wasn't. It was risky, but considering I was rushed, and my back against the wall, I figured I'd go for broke. Bad strategy I realize, but thats why I'm a newbie, not a IC. In any case, I bet, that he wasn't that stupid. No one is 100 percent sure someone's scum in this state, and if he wasn't, he would get mad, because he would be afraid he was actually lynching a townie. Not enough to change a vote, due to the likelihood it would be a scum ploy, but enough to get pissed off, and try to make me prove myself town. Since he did, in admirable fashion, I strongly believe he's town. Which means there are only two left, and when the NK comes, I'll know for sure. In any case, yes, bad ploy, I realize that. But it was my first thought, so I gave it a shot.
Let me say something about this ploy: DON'T EVER USE IT!
It's not going to help you at ALL and will only make people hate you. It's almost as bad as actual defeatism, except this one makes you look like a jerk. I've seen this done, and it currently has a 0% success rate. In fact, I've seen townies lynched because of this.
If you want, I can explain why it doesn't work, but it's rather long.
Webadict does shiny better light on the matter of the questions I didn't answer. Suppose I don't have much to lose, so I shall answer them now.
Who would I inspect, if I were a cop? Webadict, for sure. He is, indeed, an expert, and I would need to know his status ASAP.
This probably answers the other question too, I would indeed try to get rid of webadict ASAP. However, I would have to keep in mind, that getting him lynched might be an even better idea. If I believed I could stay alive and un-scummy-ish, I would believe he would be a perfect person to have lynched, preferable latter then sooner.
Well, I hope that helped some of you. I personally think I look suspicious now, but you did ask for what I thought.
It was this post that made me think you weren't likely scum, Dr.Johbson. Either that, or you're pretty good at this scum thing.
Yeah, I'm also wondering whats sparking all the attention at Diakron. Sure, he's given quite a few scumtells, but nothing really significant, or as significant as Vector seems to be. So,
What makes Diakron so scummy Vector? One question and a vague feeling doesn't make a great offense. I'd much rather hear your reasonings.
Diakron, why the sudden change? You definitely seemed to grow far more defensive when you were voted, seems rather panicky.
You're being cautious and asking a lot of questions. The question thing alone isn't that much of a scumtell. It's usually in conjunction with another one, like caution.
You're basically acting like another eduren. As soon as he was pointed out, he started freaking out as well. It's almost exactly the same.
Hmm, maybe I'll just not NK anyone huh? Oooh, throws a wrench in your plans. Considering I'm not scum, doesn't really matter.
And of course its not over yet. But we are headed for a no lynch, and so until that happens, I can't say for certainty anything other than your going to probably vote me no matter what.
Like this. You're getting extremely defensive and freaking out.
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Something tells me I may not have to do a vote count :P
Requests to end day will be accepted. I'll need 2 positive requests without any negative requests.
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Do it, unless someone has anything else important to say.
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End the day.
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It is now morning. Weary over the events of the past week, everyone walks to the room only to find the doors locked. A note is attached to the wall.
"Hotel business. No trespassing."
Confused, a small discussion over where to place the meeting provides no results. In the end, no one truly wanted to continue this. It is now clear that the proud Merchant's Guild is no more. Everyone is now simply out to survive somehow.
The survivors go their separate ways, and take in what they can of the hotel comforts for the rest of the day.
No one has been lynched this day.
It is now night. Those who have night roles please send me your choices.
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[/i]Morning.
No scream.. No knock. No sound. The survivors did not wake up till at least noon.
Each one left their room cautiously. No staff. No maid. No security. Just silence.
The meeting room was open again and spotlessly clean. Each of the remaining merchants stepped inside.
After some time, they realize Apostolic Nihilist is not coming. No one bothers to go to his room.
They know what they'll see.
Apostolic Nihilist, townie, has been killed in the night.
It is the final day.
There is no deadline and there is no option to No Lynch.
There are now 3 remaining. To end day and end game, two people must vote for the same person. Once I see the second vote cast on a person, I will set deadline for one hour. A change in vote will remove the deadline.
After that hour, if the votes remain, the game ends regardless of whether I am here to see it or not. All posts made even one MINUTE after deadline is invalid, including vote changes.
Begin the final scene.
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Well. This is it. For good for for ill, this will decide who wins and loses.
There are two possible choices. Each one to me, could be likely. Will anyone listen to me, likely not, but I'm not going to go down now.
Webadict, Or Dr. Johbson is scum. Which one it is, I have yet to decide. I don't plan on voting during this, last thing I want in a quicklynch, even if that's likely to happen on me, so I'll simply spell out my arguements, and we can see what happens.
Dr. Johbson, That kill makes me think its you. If Web were scum, he would have killed you, Apo would simply then vote me, and the game would end. That night kill is what makes me think you scum, and I'm sure Webadict, an experienced player wouldn't make a mistake like that. Thats why I'm leaning towards you being scum, and leaving me here for the easy web and you lynch. Diakron, a confirmed townie, also had suspicions on you, something I feel is to not be ignored. You tend to bandwagon, and jumped on several for no good reason, giving no logic as to why you did it.
Web: Your not immune either. While having both IC's be scum would be unlikely, it is possible. You are one of the few people here I would believe could pull off this chain of events, bussing your scum partner, lynching townies, and then finishing it all off right here. My only problem is with that NK, because it would have been so much easier to lynch Dr. Johbson than to lynch Apo. Still, a comment, that this whole game was a gamble, makes me think that perhaps you know more than your letting on. Subjective to say the least, but its not something to be ignored.
Dr. Johbson, your my main scum feel. This just works out a little too well for you to be anything but that, so I'm definately leaning you. However, I'm not going to provide a scum quicklynch, and kill the game off now.
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This is lylo. That means if we lynch incorrectly, we lose. That means when there are two votes on someone, it's hammer.
So, let's start: Dr.Johbson, you've posted fairy often, sometimes with posts that were... less than helpful. You seem to know a thing or two about mafia, as did Apostolic Nihilist. No one has suspected you at almost any time in the game. That doesn't mean you're not suspicious: You are.
But... you're not nearly as suspicious as tehstefan.
Tehstefan, for every post that you've made, Dr.Johbson has made two of equal or greater content. Your general attitude is scummy and you've gotten a good case of defeatism.
The Night Kill of Apostolic was obvious. He was town and everyone knew it. Dr.Johbson wouldn't kill him, unless he really wanted to go the hard way. Dr.Johbson would kill me. Apostolic would've definitely gone for you and Dr.Johbson would've followed. However, I initially thought you were going to go for me. Dr.Johbson still suspects me (I think), and I'd figured you'd go about this from that angle (I believe you're leaving it open.) However, Dr.Johbson would've killed me and gone after you if he were scum. It'd be easier to get Apostolic to lynch you than for me.
You, however, had no one to kill but the person that was after you the hardest and was the most obvious town. With his death, less suspicion is placed on you and would be spread more evenly among everyone. With Apostolic's death, you get a voice.
I'm just not seeing Dr.Johbson fit into that kill or even as scum. Only you. Which, in itself, may be suspicious. But, I'm still thinking it's you.
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Webadict, my problem with your statement about my posts, is that he most definitely did not post twice as many good posts as I have. Many of his posts are jumping on bandwagon's, or complete rubbish! No offense meant, but half the time you could hardly tell what he meant. Sure, he got better as the game went on, but he still oftentimes just randomly added a vote, with little or no reason.
As for the kill, my concern with your post is that I'm still here. Dr. Johbson could have very likely well lynched him, expecting me to jump on you immediately, considering my past suspicions. Your problem with this whole theory is also that I'm gunning for you. I'm not. Your definitely second on my scum list, obviously, so if I were "Gunning for you" As it were, I would have not push for Dr. Johbson, since if I were scum, why attack the one person that could get me a win? That would be horrible strategy.
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Webadict, my problem with your statement about my posts, is that he most definitely did not post twice as many good posts as I have. Many of his posts are jumping on bandwagon's, or complete rubbish! No offense meant, but half the time you could hardly tell what he meant. Sure, he got better as the game went on, but he still oftentimes just randomly added a vote, with little or no reason.
As for the kill, my concern with your post is that I'm still here. Dr. Johbson could have very likely well lynched him, expecting me to jump on you immediately, considering my past suspicions. Your problem with this whole theory is also that I'm gunning for you. I'm not. Your definitely second on my scum list, obviously, so if I were "Gunning for you" As it were, I would have not push for Dr. Johbson, since if I were scum, why attack the one person that could get me a win? That would be horrible strategy.
No, I'm saying that you, as scum, would go for me, which is a substantially easier lynch than going for Dr.Johbson. I was surprised that you'd go for Doc at all, because I think he's town.
And maybe twice as many is an overstatement. I'm saying he's been more helpful than you, though. I suppose that he did have to have encouragement at times, but he's been pretty straightforward and honest, as far as I can tell.
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Thats what I'm saying. If I were scum, why the hell would I go after him? Your convinced I'm scum, he's only somewhat sure, so the obvious solution would be to attack you, and hope to convince him. If I were scum, this would be like shooting myself in the foot, then attempting to climb a mountain! If I were good enough to last this far, would I really do something that stupid?
Thats what I meant.
Sure, he's been straightfoward and honest. He's also not been here! Any time serious discussion comes up, he vanishes, only to throw a vote on whatever bandwagon has been formed, to appear like he's not lurking. He does it to jetsquirrel, he does it to Redwarrior, he just posts, then vanishes. He only started contributing right near the end, when there weren't any more people to hide behind.
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Thats what I'm saying. If I were scum, why the hell would I go after him? Your convinced I'm scum, he's only somewhat sure, so the obvious solution would be to attack you, and hope to convince him. If I were scum, this would be like shooting myself in the foot, then attempting to climb a mountain! If I were good enough to last this far, would I really do something that stupid?
Thats what I meant.
Sure, he's been straightfoward and honest. He's also not been here! Any time serious discussion comes up, he vanishes, only to throw a vote on whatever bandwagon has been formed, to appear like he's not lurking. He does it to jetsquirrel, he does it to Redwarrior, he just posts, then vanishes. He only started contributing right near the end, when there weren't any more people to hide behind.
Interesting. You bring up some valid points.
However, if you're good enough to get this far, would you think to do that in order to make yourself seem townie? I'm not sure. That's a very classic case of WIFOM.
Let's not play the "This is what I'd do if I did it" game. That doesn't help us. Let's use logic. How does killing Apostolic help Dr.Johbson and not you? From the way I see it, you gain more from it than he does. He only gains lack of suspicion. You gain lack of suspicion overall, and an insta-lynch.
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Alright, well, I know that I'm not scum, and thus the one who's besmerching my good name is likely scum, as I see it.
The events that happened only lead me to believe that Stefan killed Apostolic because, that was his only choice. Plus, the obvious, "I'm not scum, I wouldn't have done that kill" thing. Lets go over another list of what could have happened.
Stefan NKs me. Apostolic already knows that Stefan is scum, and I very much doubt Webadict would vote Apostolic.
Stefan NKs Web. Again, Apostolic votes Stefan, and so do I. Killing Webadict here would be the worst possible thing to do.
Stefan NKs Apostolic. He gets rid of his prime suspect, and again, only has to convince one of the other's scumminess.
I didn't even know you thought I was Scum, Stefan. I remember you saying a few times over that you thought I was town. What changed your mind? Or am I just the easist target, because you know that if you went for Web, you wouldn't have a chance?
I am glad Apostolic was NKed. I wasn't getting a scum vibe off him at all, but, I was also not sure, seeing as how he just popped up, replacing..Someone or another.
Now, lets do another list, this time, if I were scum.
I NK Apostolic, a person that surely would vote for Stefan. I then have to bother to convince Webadict that you are scum and I am not. An easy lynch then becomes something I would actually have to work towards.
I NK Stefan. Apostolic and I are shocked, and I'm not sure what would happen at this point.
I NK Web. I suspect a little 'resistance' if you know what I mean, but I believe two votes for stefan would appear sooner or later.
The whole thing about me only bandwagoning and such? To be blunt, rubbish. I would like to see once where I did such a thing. I've not dodged a single discussion. Coming to them late is just because of my timetable.
..Make that twice, I'm sure I'n not perfect. :P
I might write something up for Web later, but I don't really think he's scum. We'll see.
Also, about hammering, does that mean its a bad idea to vote until I'm very very sure I know who's scum?
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Yeah. The reason why you don't vote, is because of the simple fact whoever votes, then can simply have the mafia jump on it, and its near impossible to stop.
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Web, I pose you this question. Does it matter who he NK'd? In the end, it doesn't matter who he kills. You said simply I was most likely scum, and said he was town. He knew everyone was expecting me to kill him, so why not confirm everyone's suspicion? At this point, it was simply to cast me in the worst light possible, so there would be no hesitation to lynch me. He couldn't lynch you, because that might give Apostolic a reason to pause, so he picked the target that would make me look worst, and figured you'd simply come around.
Of course, I will supply those quotes soon.
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Everyone, before I go, I have to ask for something. I've been thinking, and I have to ask Web, am I right in thinking that this stage should go on for a while? It seems to me that considering there are three people, any intense discussion is only going to help the town, as any scum would have to keep up the facade the entire time, so I propose we wait until tuesday to vote.
Just wanted to see everyone's take on this. My first time ever getting past day one, new to this whole thing.
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Well, I think you're scum and Web's not, so, If you guys wanna go on about that for a while, fine with me.
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so = but*
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Also, about hammering, does that mean its a bad idea to vote until I'm very very sure I know who's scum?
Yes. When you're 100% sure someone is scum. If it takes a while, that's fine. In IRC, this usually takes a couple of minutes (Which is long), and I've seen one of these go for 20 minutes.
Web, I pose you this question. Does it matter who he NK'd? In the end, it doesn't matter who he kills. You said simply I was most likely scum, and said he was town. He knew everyone was expecting me to kill him, so why not confirm everyone's suspicion? At this point, it was simply to cast me in the worst light possible, so there would be no hesitation to lynch me. He couldn't lynch you, because that might give Apostolic a reason to pause, so he picked the target that would make me look worst, and figured you'd simply come around.
Of course, I will supply those quotes soon.
Who was NKed has... some meaning. It does not make the game, no. The reasons that were listed were exactly what I was thinking. So, unless Dr. Johbson can read minds, you're more likely scum than he is. Except for the fact that you were going to be lynched no matter what, right?
Everyone, before I go, I have to ask for something. I've been thinking, and I have to ask Web, am I right in thinking that this stage should go on for a while? It seems to me that considering there are three people, any intense discussion is only going to help the town, as any scum would have to keep up the facade the entire time, so I propose we wait until tuesday to vote.
Just wanted to see everyone's take on this. My first time ever getting past day one, new to this whole thing.
This stage lasts for as long as it has to. Whether that's Days or Hours or Minutes is up to the players. Waiting until Tuesday to vote isn't necessary if someone is positive of another's scumminess. But, more discussion never hurts.
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Back from church, and as promised, I gave you quotes.
Randomly lynching and trying to find scum isn't a good scum-finding tactic, Diakron. Unvote. Vote Jetsquirrel. Lurking be bad, yo.
This is my first piece of evidence. You randomly tag a vote on someone, yet I’d already voted for them, so what was the point of adding another? He didn’t need more than one vote. Also, your practically doing the same thing that your chiding Diakron for, randomly voting for a person.
Well, hell. The doctor is dead, and now so is another normal townie. After reading through some select player's posts thus far, I have found a few more things I would like to comment on. First, the obvious. Webadict, you're not dead yet, and our doctor is gone. Thoughts, comments? I'm also seeing you attack people less than you usaully do, which was fine for the first day or two, but you still seem lax, and too kind, for day four. Second, Diakron, I know you're hurt and all that, but I'm sure you're still able to bring up a small list of what you think. You obviously still think I'm scum, would be great if you could share that and more with us all. Third, RedWarrior, you are not going to escape my wrath this turn. You haven't posted anything useful in..Well, since day one. Apostolic Nihilist, tell us what you think/believe. Please try to show up more than Jet did. :P
Here’s my next piece. For me, its not just the vote, which wasn’t really bandwagoning, it was you also pushing Diakron and webadict, but not doing anything about them. To me, it seems like you were trying to start a lynch on a lurker, something everyone would go for.
There’s my two pieces of evidence, as requested. In fact, I’ll throw out one more, just to be nice like that,
I don't know, Eduren, Webadict was right, you didn't seem to do much 'original thinking' yourself. Your defense was lackluster, as well, really. Eduren RedWarrior, come tell us what you think of stuff.
This one is a bit trickier to prove. You were bandwagoning, but on a scum. However, I don’t believe that absolves you. You saw that both Vector and Web were severely suspicious of him, and decided to throw a quick vote in there, then duck out. Bussing your buddy wouldn’t be that far fetched, especially since Eduren likely told you to do it. Just because its on a mafia doesn’t mean your absolved of it. As well. This took place over the span of two days no less, so there should be no reason you couldn’t have read it all, and put some more thought into things, rather than just voting then ducking out.
Everyone of you deserves a medal!
Also, I’d just like to add this. This is during the middle of the discussion, right in the thick of it. So, no, I don’t believe a word you say when you tell me you couldn’t be there. Yeah. If you have time to write down a horrible active lurking reply, you have time to justify your reasonings.
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Uh, I think if I added my own lines between quotes, it would be really messy, so Im just going to have numbers.
Paragraph 1-
I did that so Jet would have the most votes on him at the moment. An active lurker with one vote on him would have little panic, but one with the majority should come right out into the spotlight. I don't consider this bandwagoning, but, alright.
Paragraph 2-
I really don't see anything scummy with what I did. I really don't like lurkers.
Paragraph 3+4- I've only recently (IE last two days, not counting this one?) begun really writing more, I tried to write stuff but nothing came up. So yes, I was active lurking until I got finally got the hang of it.
Also to be horribly ironic I'll write more regarding this and other fantastic products later.
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I know this is tough, guys, but we can't just leave this game at a standoff.
I'm still 90-10 toward tehstefan. However, it's really late, and I'll post tomorrow exactly what I think.
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Prods sent.
Wake up! This game is not QUITE over yet.
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Oh snap its tuesday, alright, writing time, unless I have to vote now?
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Yeah, I guess Ill just vote now..
Vote Tehstefan.
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No point in holding back a vote now. Vote: Dr. Johbson
Guess web will decide who hangs today.
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...
I'm fairly certain that tehstefan is scum. He's been much too scummy the entire game, and his freakout at 4p only confirmed it.
Game Over.
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Game Over indeed...
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Second vote set:
Deadline in 1 hour from this post. If both votes remain by 12:04 EST the game will be over.
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hey, Dr. Johbson, whatever happened to that post you were promising? Not that it matters.
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It doesn't matter.
I'm Mafia.
I would just like to take this time to say, "Sorry." I did a bad thing in Day 2 by lynching eduren. Mafia tend to want to make sure they all live. I didn't teach him to be a very good mafia, and I would've preferred I had gotten a better chance to teach him.
As for staying hidden, he did a fairly good job, except for active lurking doesn't work (I was doing it a lot, and it wasn't noticeable BECAUSE I was an IC. Well, it WAS noticeable, and that's why I had to remove those that would notice it. Ergo, Vector.) After that, it was simply removing those that were the least scummiest, and then lynching the scummiest. I should've been lynched several Days ago, when you had the chance to.
When I lynched the Doctor, it was a big mistake. I wanted the Doctor alive (Or find out if there was a Doctor, and if not, I'd claim it near my lynch (I'd've gone for Cop if I hadn't killed him first Night.)
So, when you got to lylo, I was so suspicious that it was easy to believe that I was being framed. Because of that, you refused to believe each other in calling for my lynch, because that's exactly what scum would do (And I'd say so, too.) So, I had to get someone suspicious (tehstefan) and someone townlike (Apostolic), and then go to lylo with a No Lynch. I kill the obvious town guy to make me look suddenly townlike.
Then I waited. Sooner or later, you'd Cross Vote each other and I'd simply wait until neither of you would be online to stop me.
As scum, I did a good job. As an IC, not so well. I was trying to teach eduren better, but I was focused a little too much on myself. Sorry dude.
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Good game! You definitely played far better than I did. I really have to say, good job. I had my suspicious, especially after that gamble bit, but gosh, not as much as I did on Dr. Johbson. Well played. And whoo! So exciting! As my first game to finishing, even though I lost, it was a lot of fun! Good game everyone, good game. Also, I should have gone off the data I've seen of you in other games. You were far more timid here! I thought it might have been you trying to be a good IC and not completely annihilate us, but maybe I should have listened to myself more.
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Dear diary,
Today has been a long day for me. I wish not to think about it all, but I can tell you some of it.
I have been keeping away from the Meeting Room the past few days. Ever since I found out who is taking charge of eliminating the Guild. I saw what he did to his Eduren, and that was his partner. A small time scrub like me would only warrant removing me too. I write every day how happy I was to be told to leave them alone. I'm so afraid of what they will do to me, I could no longer perform any of my duties.
I write that I'm happy, but I'm not. I'm scared, and tired, and I can't stop crying anymore. I'm sick of seeing the bodies. Beaten, burned, stabbed, left unrecognizable. Every time I see one now, I dream of being that person, of some nameless shadow swinging at me over, and over
and over
and over
and over
and over
Sometimes, I wish I would wake up dead, just so that I don't have to go asleep again.
Everyone here wants to kill someone, anyone. No one will save me from [ink slash]
There's someone at the door.
[the maid's diary ends there]
The day is over. Mafia Webadict and Eduren has won.
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Good game! You definitely played far better than I did. I really have to say, good job. I had my suspicious, especially after that gamble bit, but gosh, not as much as I did on Dr. Johbson. Well played. And whoo! So exciting! As my first game to finishing, even though I lost, it was a lot of fun! Good game everyone, good game.
I'm sure dakarian will post it soon, but here's the scum chat.
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/hSkE29inSp9
I posted in there every once in a while on what I was doing and why, so maybe there'll be some information that'll help you if you wanna play again. Heck, you could even learn to play scum!
Everything I said in this game was true. Some of it was simply to misdirect everyone toward another person. The mafia need to manipulate, and town want to make sure they aren't manipulated away from a scum.
So when someone lynches scum, don't believe you're not being manipulated. If I could've gotten eduren to look like a god by getting me lynched, I'd've done it. But, there were far to few scum to do that before he would've gotten lynched. I couldn't save him unfortunately, unless I wanted to jump in front of a train. I could've pushed him out of the way, but that would've been a gamble on both of us.
Anyhow, sorry eduren. I was a bad teacher.
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Game over indeed, indeed.
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After reading that, wow. You really did play us. Dr. Johbson had it right, and you were scummy. Hrmm. You totally outthought me there, with the Apostolic killing. Lesson learned. Never stop being suspicious, even if it seems extremely unlikely. Hey, Web, can I ask, did we put up a good job, for newbies?
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6 game days. 3 RL weeks, and here we are at the finish. A few VERY quick notes:
1. I knew it would be messy when I saw what the randomizer gave me. Two IC mafias!? Cop, Doc, and Blocker at once? I didn't know what to make of it, but I decided to give it a chance.
2. The game came mostly down to the matter of 'too obviousness'. Right from the start, people suspected, but kept brushing it off to look for the less common answer. Everyone said that webadict should be investigated from the start. The cop did just that actually. As to why he died, blame Webadict who, at the last second, switched the kill before confirming. The game would've been over without that.
3. From there it was a matter of the town having the answer right under their nose but just not getting it. I was afraid that no one would really guess web as the final scum, even after Eduren was found out.
Then came Nihilist. First post was a cute 'welcome'. His second post exposed just about every detail that occured in the game. He didn't just pick out who was mafia, he had fully fleshed out their plot. I don't think I've ever seen it before and I'm not sure I'll ever see it again.
If there's anything to take from it, it's "don't second guess yourself". You'd be surprised how often your first suspicions hit home. You'd be shocked just how often those 'self doubts' were actually planted by your enemy.
Well, in any case, here is the Dead Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/N7sb8TZ92r4) and Mafia Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/hSkE29inSp9)
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After reading that, wow. You really did play us. Dr. Johbson had it right, and you were scummy. Hrmm. You totally outthought me there, with the Apostolic killing. Lesson learned. Never stop being suspicious, even if it seems extremely unlikely. Hey, Web, can I ask, did we put up a good job, for newbies?
Yes. You got the part about backing up your claims with whatever information was available. The only part you'll need to remember is to never EVER stop being suspicious of people. That was the town's only mistake.
Oh, and you should've lynched me Day 4. When faced with a gamble like that, you're better off taking it. ESPECIALLY if it's me. I, like Mephansteras, can talk my way out of a frying pan surrounded by Cannibals. I can't come back from the dead, though, and I certainly can't kill.
Also, Dead Chat = Sweet. Haha... I was laughing as I was going through it. I was oving how the town was dreading the whole thing when it got to Day 3, and then more when it got to Day 4.
And yes, it was a bad ending. But I had to end it somehow.
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Heh. Well, that definately did get me. You were the only one smart enough to FOS your own scumbuddy then throw a bandwagon his way when things turned bad. Man. If I hadn't just tried to go for you tomorrow, gah. Also, I totally got way too excited. Feel like I cost the town the game. Oh well.
Web, your a monster. A absolute monster. I've seen you stop the town by simply yelling at them, and save them, and now, well gosh. Your good.
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The IC system here was used in the same manner as Mafiascum. That is, although they are there to teach, this is a real game for them and they should do whatever they should to win it like everyone else.
Thus, bussing Eduren was sensible, especially since it teaches people that simply looking for the person that bandwagons and 'helps their scumbuddy' doesn't always work.
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Heh. Well, that definately did get me. You were the only one smart enough to FOS your own scumbuddy then throw a bandwagon his way when things turned bad. Man. If I hadn't just tried to go for you tomorrow, gah. Also, I totally got way too excited. Feel like I cost the town the game. Oh well.
Web, your a monster. A absolute monster. I've seen you stop the town by simply yelling at them, and save them, and now, well gosh. Your good.
You didn't throw the game. I threw the game at you and it ricocheted. I was gambling the heck out of it.
And this game is fairly psychological. You have to outguess your opponent. And as town, you have an additional goal to guess your opponent.
I outguessed everyone. That is all.
The IC system here was used in the same manner as Mafiascum. That is, although they are there to teach, this is a real game for them and they should do whatever they should to win it like everyone else.
Thus, bussing Eduren was sensible, especially since it teaches people that simply looking for the person that bandwagons and 'helps their scumbuddy' doesn't always work.
Yes, I suppose. I pushed him too hard and that kinda got him lynched though.
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Anyhow, sorry eduren. I was a bad teacher.
Yes, I suppose. I pushed him too hard and that kinda got him lynched though.
Naw man, its fine. I jumped way too much and paid the price. Plus if you listen to Vector in DC, he was always gunning for me, so it was a matter of time.
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webadict is...yikes. Looking at these 'beginners' games, I can't see behaviour variation.(Perhaps my gain's too low, or the IC behaviour is drowning them. Apostolic seemed to get a perfect Inspiration Particle hit.)..aside from the posting frequency, which takes a bit more dedication to spot.
Also, props to Dakarian for the writing, though...running out of ammo? Dakarian? Seriously?
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To get in the habit, EBWOP: When's next? Though, now I can say with confidence an answer to one of the usual motive-hunt questions.
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Web, do you have any idea how lucky you are?
I investigated you and BAM! Dead. >:(
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Well, hell. ;D
Almost obvious if I read the last two days. I should have re-read those too..
Ah well, I had fun and I learnt stuff. Like, to never, ever let go of my suspicions if I keep seeing evidence to renew them. :P
Had to be so scummy, didn't you Stefan. :P
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Web, do you have any idea how lucky you are?
I investigated you and BAM! Dead. >:(
What do you THINK I was aiming for?
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I just realized something.
I'm running around in too many games.
I'm hosting in technically 3 (since Parallel is 2 games in one), playing in 2 and this one only JUST ended. I was wondering why I'm making mistakes left and right on some of them.. I think I'm overloaded. Also, a big reason why I can track what I can is due to me being away from work for the past two weeks. Next week I'll be back to working 2nd shift.
As such, I might have to ask someone else to run the next Beginner. Otherwise, I'll have to wait until a few other games die down.
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I would, but I feel otherwise engaged in my many mafias. Perhaps later.
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Did you know I was cop or was it luck?
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Lucky guess... He seemed to want proof of who to lynch. That's why. Noob Cops tend to do that.
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Did you know I was cop or was it luck?
I looked at a post:
I thought he wouldn't cope well under pressure for the simple reason of how he types. Basically, in text language. This to me says that they may be quite young, and if so, quite easy to anger. And I presumed you thought similar, or had some possibility in your head.
Another thing for this point is that he could be using text language because they are short on time, which means they would have to post without too much time to think about what is happening. This would mean that Diakron could just be annoyed town though. See the Jetsquirrel situation in Beginner's Mafia 2.
Even without that little bit of stuff, we still have this:
Diakron why the heat on the newbies? Its not very nice you know!
its the RVS and i feel that the newbies are being left out of my favorite part of the game /sarcasm off
don't worry your next stefan
The obvious sarcasm and the last line suggest that Diakron is easily annoyed. Because he got random voted, he threatened tehstefan.
In summary, it is easily proven that Diakron is easily annoyed, hence why I'd think you are scum if he turns town. Not too strongly though, so don't be worried. You seem town because you are doing some genuine scumhunting.
Is that enough explanation?
And it felt like you wanted proof. I dunno why, but I felt like you'd be best bet.
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Don't feel bad Major_S. Have you ever read the two religious flame war mafias?
XD
It's.....just hilariously unlucky for anyone that's not me.
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Ok.. I read that post web posted twice and still I can't see anything suggesting "Cop looking for proof".
Not the first time. Every time an example of a 'cop tell' is given I'm left going "what cop"?
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If I am told there's a cop tell and had to point at a passage, the "not too strongly though".
Oh. Wait. Got it, but it's faint. Major_sephiroth is being cautious about jumping to conclusions in general...in a way that seems blended scum(caution)/town(scumhunting) tells.
Webadict, as scum, knows Major_sephiroth is NOT scum, so thinks, "Why is he cautious? Ah-ha, a role?"
But this is in 20/200 hindsight.
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You're right. Cops won't lynch someone unless they have "proof".
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I do know that the doc tends to act very scummy, at least. If you see someone that seems obviously scum, it may be the doc.
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i have a MAJOR scum tell, you guys just have yet to find it. i also would think i have a big town tell but its is hard to see at first...
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I know my scum tell. I'm pretty sure most people know it.
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@Diakron
We just got to the point where we can recognize your 'personality' so as to avoid autolynching.
@Toony
I'm actually beginning to deem your scum/town tells as null tells. Once it becomes commonplace it's very easy for the person to subvert it (purposely perform the town tell when mafia).
@Both
Generally, once the player knows their own tells, it's soon time to remove that tool when reading that person. It means it's harder to read the person but that's how we all grow and improve as mafia players.
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I mean seriously. If I was scum I would just post every once in a while saying, "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA" and then I would like win.
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@Diakron
We just got to the point where we can recognize your 'personality' so as to avoid autolynching.
@Toony
I'm actually beginning to deem your scum/town tells as null tells. Once it becomes commonplace it's very easy for the person to subvert it (purposely perform the town tell when mafia).
@Both
Generally, once the player knows their own tells, it's soon time to remove that tool when reading that person. It means it's harder to read the person but that's how we all grow and improve as mafia players.
next town im town i am using this as a HUGE WIFOM :)
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You should avoid WIFOM when you're town. It's not helpful.
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WIFOM I deem as a scumtell by design, since that's their most powerful weapon.
self-Metatalk is not only a null tell, but I then deem all tells based on that meta that I picked up null tells.
I tend to rely on motive analysis in the late game anyway, rather than meta/tells.
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whoops forgot to say /sarcasm off
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I see how he got it, but I'm like that anyway. I don't like lynching people unless I have proof, if I'm cop or otherwise.
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No lynching day 1 isn't always the best choice though. No lynching the first day is actually incredibly bad move to do, for town and scum. (unless one of them might get lynched)
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I'm just paranoid that the person I lynch will be town and the town will hunt me down.
Also, I've played laser tag. Hella fun.
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PARANOID?
Dun dun dun.
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One of the hard truths about mafia is that killing a townie is actually a null tell. Depending on how you killed them (even if you were critical to their death) it may be even a town tell.
OTOH trying to kill someone for 'killing townies' is, as I've seen, a slight Scum tell. Good townies realize that a town can easily kill a town. Mafia, however, tend to think in terms of "let's get that person killed and blame it on this townie.
So long as your reasons for actually attacking someone are valid (even if they are wrong, if they make sense to you and you are honest about it) then a townie SHOULD see that and let you go. If it's a good town, any bandwagon against you would be either spearheaded by or 'gently pushed' by the mafia.
Now if it's a bad town that DOES kill you for 'killing that townie' then don't worry about it, because even if you lived you would just be killed by the mafia at the end of the game anyway (remember: if the mafia win, they technically Kill all of the surviving town).