Apostolic Nihilist. What, in particular, attracts you to nihilism?
I'm an existentialist sort of dude myself.
I vote Leafsnail for being SCUM.And good evening to you too, Toony. Anti-FoS for behaving just as you normally do.
Who would be your favorite scum partner?ToonyMan, for being generally impossible to read and aggressive enough to get things done. He'd also be pretty easy to bus if things went horribly wrong.
You can tell how terrified I am from that part in my third post where- Oh, wait, you seem to be accusing me based on my first two posts.
It's called "going off what you have". I didn't say you were scum. I just thought of it as a worst-case scenario.
This is not why I'm FoSing you, though. I'm FoSing you because you seem to be sucking up to Leafsnail for some reason.
I know Leafsnail from the IB forums. I can trust him.
I'm was about to FoS Leafsnail for anti-FoSing Toony, then realized that was a stupid idea and decided not to. I remain neutral to Leafsnail - perhaps even a bit more inclined to think him town for his calm response.
For now, I'll assume that as correct thinking.
Of course, it's easy to be calm when you're declared to be scum before you post, so meh. Scratch that too.
Easy for you to say.
To end my rambling, my standard question for everyone:
Who would be your favorite scum partner?
I'm somewhat split between Leafsnail and Apostolic Nihilist.
I'll answer first: Diakron, because we made a good team last time and he always acts so scummy it's ridiculously difficult to make heads or tails of his behavior.
Who would be your favorite scum partner?
Is that not Gambler's Fallacy in action, Toony? Although I see what you mean about being hard to read.
Free Beer, it's because I tend to be more worried when ToonyMan's not randomly attacking people than when he is. And why does Pandar deserve an FoS just for mentioning it?
Hey Everyone.
My least favorite scum partner would be Toony, as he is a bit unpredictable.
Hey Everyone.
My least favorite scum partner would be Toony, as he is a bit unpredictable.
I'm not unvoting you. You haven't answered either of my questions.
Free Beer: You're saying I'm scum because I considered what he said, then decided it wasn't as scummy as I'd initially thought, and decided to share my opinion of this?
And that bit about "bribery" is bullshit. "Bribing" never works on Bay12. It's too transparent.
Yeah... Leaf, was that a random vote you placed on me? If so, why haven't you removed it? Just asking.
Anyway, tables seem to swing rapidly, so Unvote Vote Pandarsenic.
Free beer why did you vote me then unvote me without even wating for a response? so far it is me and Panda that you have voted for. If you are scum don't be so obvious about it...
Org care to say something a little bit more then "No not him"?
Yeah... Leaf, was that a random vote you placed on me? If so, why haven't you removed it? Just asking.
Anyway, tables seem to swing rapidly, so Unvote Vote Pandarsenic.
Free Beer: You're saying I'm scum because I considered what he said, then decided it wasn't as scummy as I'd initially thought, and decided to share my opinion of this?
And that bit about "bribery" is bullshit. "Bribing" never works on Bay12. It's too transparent.
You also didn't say why you thought it was not as scummy. People who look at Leafsnail's action standalone would think "why did he do that?". After your post, people will instead think "Why is it stupid to think that scum would do that?". You've directed the way people consider that particular action.
As for bribing being "bullshit," I never said anything about the success rate. In fact, I explicitly labeled it as a mistake. And if it's so transparent, why aren't you faulting Leafsnail for it? I think you two are sticking up for each other way too much.
AN: the point of RVS is to get an answer from the person you voted for... unless your scum
Free beer why did you vote me then unvote me without even wating for a response? so far it is me and Panda that you have voted for. If you are scum don't be so obvious about it...
Free Beer: You're saying I'm scum because I considered what he said, then decided it wasn't as scummy as I'd initially thought, and decided to share my opinion of this?
And that bit about "bribery" is bullshit. "Bribing" never works on Bay12. It's too transparent.
You also didn't say why you thought it was not as scummy. People who look at Leafsnail's action standalone would think "why did he do that?". After your post, people will instead think "Why is it stupid to think that scum would do that?". You've directed the way people consider that particular action.
As for bribing being "bullshit," I never said anything about the success rate. In fact, I explicitly labeled it as a mistake. And if it's so transparent, why aren't you faulting Leafsnail for it? I think you two are sticking up for each other way too much.
It's stupid for scum to draw attention to their partners. If mine did that to me, I would accuse him of trying to buddy up with me, an INNOCENT TOWNIE, and bus him.
I'm saying bribery never works and, like the OMGUS, is a null tell because everyone knows it never works.
ExKirby: Are you placing the third vote on me just for fun?
Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.I don't think Leafsnail is town. I just don't think that particular action he made was worth pursuing, at least at the time. It's a null tell.Free beer why did you vote me then unvote me without even wating for a response? so far it is me and Panda that you have voted for. If you are scum don't be so obvious about it...
Diakron, you're accusing me on grounds that I'm not exhibiting tunnel-vision. And what's wrong with voting for Pandarsenic?Free Beer: You're saying I'm scum because I considered what he said, then decided it wasn't as scummy as I'd initially thought, and decided to share my opinion of this?
And that bit about "bribery" is bullshit. "Bribing" never works on Bay12. It's too transparent.
You also didn't say why you thought it was not as scummy. People who look at Leafsnail's action standalone would think "why did he do that?". After your post, people will instead think "Why is it stupid to think that scum would do that?". You've directed the way people consider that particular action.
As for bribing being "bullshit," I never said anything about the success rate. In fact, I explicitly labeled it as a mistake. And if it's so transparent, why aren't you faulting Leafsnail for it? I think you two are sticking up for each other way too much.
It's stupid for scum to draw attention to their partners. If mine did that to me, I would accuse him of trying to buddy up with me, an INNOCENT TOWNIE, and bus him.
I'm saying bribery never works and, like the OMGUS, is a null tell because everyone knows it never works.
ExKirby: Are you placing the third vote on me just for fun?
Pandarsenic, I agree that it is stupid for scum to draw attention to their partners. However, it is not stupid for scum to draw attention to townies - much like you did in Beginner's Mafia 2. I'll ask you again the question that you've been avoiding - why do you think Leafsnail is town?
It's stupid for scum to draw attention to their partners. If mine did that to me, I would accuse him of trying to buddy up with me, an INNOCENT TOWNIE (Well, odds are that you are town. Stating that in bold seems scummist to me, as a deflecter.), and bus him.
I'm saying bribery never works and, like the OMGUS, is a null tell because everyone knows it never works.
ExKirby: Are you placing the third vote on me just for fun?
Well... ExKirby hasn't either. I don't recall having been asked any questions, actually. What, do you all intend to just ignore that I could be scum (Maybe so, but when three people point the gun at you, you usually try to give reasoning on their own accord.), as equal a probability as everyone else has? Question me!
I don't think Leafsnail is town. I just don't think that particular action he made was worth pursuing, at least at the time. It's a null tell.
Oh, and ExKirby, name your reasons or die. Honestly. If I won't vote with webadict when he's a confirmed townie until I hear his reasons, I sure as hell won't take this. (And what do you mean by that?)
I voted him in the beginning. :-DCan't say I can see the logic behind this, but whatever. Actually, you seem to be a bit less focused on one player than usual, which is weird, but probably good from a town perspective.
Whimsical usernames can often betray the true nature of their user's state of mind.
In contradictory terms, it means nothing.
Who would be your favorite scum partner?
Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent.
unvote
Exkirby I always seem slightly scummy i just can't help it.
Org talk to us or die.
Wow, that made me think. And I think I want to vote Free Beer.
Yeah... Leaf, was that a random vote you placed on me? If so, why haven't you removed it? Just asking.
Anyway, tables seem to swing rapidly, so Unvote Vote Pandarsenic.
Ok, you want reasnoning? I'll see if there are quotes...It's stupid for scum to draw attention to their partners. If mine did that to me, I would accuse him of trying to buddy up with me, an INNOCENT TOWNIE (Well, odds are that you are town. Stating that in bold seems scummist to me, as a deflecter.), and bus him.
I'm saying bribery never works and, like the OMGUS, is a null tell because everyone knows it never works.
ExKirby: Are you placing the third vote on me just for fun?Well... ExKirby hasn't either. I don't recall having been asked any questions, actually. What, do you all intend to just ignore that I could be scum (Maybe so, but when three people point the gun at you, you usually try to give reasoning on their own accord.), as equal a probability as everyone else has? Question me!I don't think Leafsnail is town. I just don't think that particular action he made was worth pursuing, at least at the time. It's a null tell.
Oh, and ExKirby, name your reasons or die. Honestly. If I won't vote with webadict when he's a confirmed townie until I hear his reasons, I sure as hell won't take this. (And what do you mean by that?)
Little flicks of the eye that, for me at the least, say a lot.
Now, back to the matter at hand. Many people say I'm bandwagoning. I don't mean to, I'm just making rookie mistakes. And I've made a lot... oh well, I'm new. What do you expect? And seeing as the tables have turned, Unvote Vote Diakron. He seems... mildly scummish... I just can't put my finger round why...
Ok, you want reasnoning? I'll see if there are quotes...
Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.
Ok, you want reasnoning? I'll see if there are quotes...It's stupid for scum to draw attention to their partners. If mine did that to me, I would accuse him of trying to buddy up with me, an INNOCENT TOWNIE (Well, odds are that you are town. Stating that in bold seems scummist to me, as a deflecter.), and bus him.
I'm saying bribery never works and, like the OMGUS, is a null tell because everyone knows it never works.
ExKirby: Are you placing the third vote on me just for fun?Well... ExKirby hasn't either. I don't recall having been asked any questions, actually. What, do you all intend to just ignore that I could be scum (Maybe so, but when three people point the gun at you, you usually try to give reasoning on their own accord.), as equal a probability as everyone else has? Question me!I don't think Leafsnail is town. I just don't think that particular action he made was worth pursuing, at least at the time. It's a null tell.
Oh, and ExKirby, name your reasons or die. Honestly. If I won't vote with webadict when he's a confirmed townie until I hear his reasons, I sure as hell won't take this. (And what do you mean by that?)
Little flicks of the eye that, for me at the least, say a lot.
Now, back to the matter at hand. Many people say I'm bandwagoning. I don't mean to, I'm just making rookie mistakes. And I've made a lot... oh well, I'm new. What do you expect? And seeing as the tables have turned, Unvote Vote Diakron. He seems... mildly scummish... I just can't put my finger round why...
Free Beer seems like he's trying to defend ExKirby, or rather, trying to lead us away from him. ExKirby is acting extremely scummy right now, and Free Beer could be his partner. Note that Free Beer points out ExKirby's bandwagoning but then proceeds to ignore him.
In the quote below, Free Beer acknowledges that ExKirby is suspicious, but deflects to both Vector and Toonyman.
Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.
Something about this doesn't feel right; he's either not pursuing ExKirby because he figures that we're handling him pretty well, or he's trying to subtly shift the balance of votes back onto Pandarsenic.
[...]
I don't think Leafsnail is town. I just don't think that particular action he made was worth pursuing, at least at the time. It's a null tell.
Oh, and ExKirby, name your reasons or die. Honestly. If I won't vote with webadict when he's a confirmed townie until I hear his reasons, I sure as hell won't take this.
Diakron, I repeat my earlier question to you: What was wrong with voting Pandarsenic?
Vector, is the scum group an Abelian group? Why or why not?
In the quote below, Free Beer acknowledges that ExKirby is suspicious, but deflects to both Vector and Toonyman.
Apostolic Nihilist, you are accusing me on grounds that I'm not bandwagoning.
QuoteDiakron, I repeat my earlier question to you: What was wrong with voting Pandarsenic?
thought i answered that: There is nothing wrong with voting in the RVS but jumping around without waiting for responses is scummy.
Vector, is the scum group an Abelian group? Why or why not?
.... Hardeeharharhar. Define me a binary operation under which the scum are closed, and I'll tell you if it's abelian or not.
With the assumption that the scum in this game form a group, however, we know that one must be the identity scum (ident-scum), and that to be closed under whatever operation you've come up with (scumx)(scumx) = (ident-scum). Hence the group is trivially abelian, and scumx is a generator for the scum group.
Vector: I disagree - nobody should get off without answering their RVS questions. It makes it too easy for scum to get away unnoticed.
ok i guess i should say "Is scummy to me" or something similar for i have noticed quite a few scum ignore RVS question and you yourself vector jump all over people when they dont answer them so if i ask Scum1 a question then Newb2 goofs and i vote them then Scum1 gets to calmly start integrating himself into the game.
time taken to wirte this post: just over 12 minutes :(
Leafsnail, why did you defend Pandarsenic when I voted him? And why did you react so strongly to ToonyMan's accusations toward you, both then and now? Is his opinion of you really so important?I didn't really react strongly to him on either occasion.
And good evening to you too, Toony. Anti-FoS for behaving just as you normally do.
Can't say I can see the logic behind this, but whatever. Actually, you seem to be a bit less focused on one player than usual, which is weird, but probably good from a town perspective.
We're pretty much set to lynch ExKirby right now. If he flips scum, I think Free Beer is his partner. They both seem to be going after Pandarsenic specifically, and I think they were trying to build a bandwagon earlier on. Also, ExKirby followed after Free Beer blindly towards the beginning of the game (Free Beer voted Pandarsenic then ExKirby voted him, bringing the vote count up to 3).
Now, if ExKirby flips town, we have to look at entirely different suspects. Free Beer could still possibly be scum (he's experienced; he wouldn't bandwagon on an easy lynch as scum), but we also have to look at the people who immediately jumped on ExKirby after the bandwagon started. Org, for instance.
I'll probably have some more to post once I get back from school.
QuoteLeafsnail, why did you defend Pandarsenic when I voted him? And why did you react so strongly to ToonyMan's accusations toward you, both then and now? Is his opinion of you really so important?I didn't really react strongly to him on either occasion.QuoteAnd good evening to you too, Toony. Anti-FoS for behaving just as you normally do.QuoteCan't say I can see the logic behind this, but whatever. Actually, you seem to be a bit less focused on one player than usual, which is weird, but probably good from a town perspective.
The main reason is because, well, ignoring an accusation of you and trying to stay under the radar isn't helpful from a town perspective.
It's far better to put out your arguments and thoughts than to simply stand back like a meek lamb and do nothing at all. Yes, perhaps one random vote on me isn't important, but it would be better if we can band together and find scum.
Also, you seem to be forgetting the background behind you voting Pandarsenic - you only did it because he didn't seize on something I said, partly as a joke, in the random vote stage. It didn't seem to make much sense as an accusation - especially since scum defending each other is actually fairly rare, rare to the point of defending someone (slightly) being a null tell. A scum player is more likely to distance himself from his partner, or perhaps even kick him as he falls to avoid drawing suspicion to himself.
Vote remains on Org, again, for making a post that contained nothing but a bandwagon on an easy target. It could be lazy town, I suppose, but it's certainly not helpful.
That is scum thinking. Your sentence could easily have been "..isn't going to make me look town." A townie who stays under the radar is a townie that makes the scum look bad when they try to make themselves look town.This smacks of "Too Towny" fallacy, to be honest. Basically, "Since he's looks like he's trying to scum hunt he must be pretending to scum hunt". Contributing to debate is not a scumtell.
If we band together, they will infiltrate us. Your plan is foolhardy. Or you could be scum laying the groundwork for your future plans.My "plan" isn't anything of the kind. All I mean is that, while a random vote may not matter, it's better to nevertheless try and tell the person who's voting for you what you think. Or should I just be dodging questions?
Actually, I voted him because you stuck up for Pandarsenic and he stuck up for you - obvious buddying, although I can't tell who started it and who fell for it. The initial incident warranted only a FoS. After I unvoted Pandarsenic, I voted you. That's not a coincidence.I'm not saying Pandar is necessarily town, but your reason for voting him ("He sortof defended Leafsnail, in a very mild way") was flawed, as are your current reasons for voting me. His defense of me earlier did not factor in.
...and this does not strike you as being tunnel-vision because..?Well, firstly, tunnel-vision is not really a scumtell. A scum player is more likely to jump his vote around everywhere. This means that, due to WIFOM, tunnel vision is more of a null tell. Secondly, it's not tunnel vision as I'm continuing to question other people, however, I want Org to say something useful and let us read him, and am therefore keeping my vote on him to pressure him.
ExKirby, please review Beginner's Mafia I. It was Dakarian's death wish that actually bought the scum a perfect victory in that game. I'm not sure whether we should lynch you right now. But I will say this: if you flip town, your last words will carry no weight with me.
That's the point of Mafia.QuoteExKirby, please review Beginner's Mafia I. It was Dakarian's death wish that actually bought the scum a perfect victory in that game. I'm not sure whether we should lynch you right now. But I will say this: if you flip town, your last words will carry no weight with me.
My vote still holds. We've come to a point in the game where I trust NO-ONE.
QuoteThat is scum thinking. Your sentence could easily have been "..isn't going to make me look town." A townie who stays under the radar is a townie that makes the scum look bad when they try to make themselves look town.This smacks of "Too Towny" fallacy, to be honest. Basically, "Since he's looks like he's trying to scum hunt he must be pretending to scum hunt". Contributing to debate is not a scumtell.
QuoteIf we band together, they will infiltrate us. Your plan is foolhardy. Or you could be scum laying the groundwork for your future plans.
My "plan" isn't anything of the kind. All I mean is that, while a random vote may not matter, it's better to nevertheless try and tell the person who's voting for you what you think. Or should I just be dodging questions?
QuoteActually, I voted him because you stuck up for Pandarsenic and he stuck up for you - obvious buddying, although I can't tell who started it and who fell for it. The initial incident warranted only a FoS. After I unvoted Pandarsenic, I voted you. That's not a coincidence.I'm not saying Pandar is necessarily town, but your reason for voting him ("He sortof defended Leafsnail, in a very mild way") was flawed, as are your current reasons for voting me. His defense of me earlier did not factor in.
The fact that you are reciprocating and defending him as well definitely does not look good for either of you.
Quote...and this does not strike you as being tunnel-vision because..?Well, firstly, tunnel-vision is not really a scumtell. A scum player is more likely to jump his vote around everywhere. This means that, due to WIFOM, tunnel vision is more of a null tell. Secondly, it's not tunnel vision as I'm continuing to question other people, however, I want Org to say something useful and let us read him, and am therefore keeping my vote on him to pressure him.
Although, to be honest, Free Beer, I don't think you're too likely to be scum. A scum player would be more likely to kick me or someone else after a bandwagon has formed, and we are down and unable to defend ourselves properly. I suppose it's the people who bandwagon onto something without adding anything that you really need to watch.
Let's go over it again, then. You said you want to exhibit a certain kind of behavior in order to look like a townie because it's helpful to the town. I stated that that behavior was not in fact pro-town, and good scum will exhibit that behavior anyway - because they want to look like they're town.Which would make it a null tell. So why are you calling me out on it?
Let me ask you something: What's the point of random voting?It depends, really. It gets a response, it starts debate, it gets all the players to come down and express what they think. I prefer to answer questions when random voted rather than just dismissing them.
Then what was this?Sorry, I phrased it ambiguously. I meant that his defense of me did not factor into my challenging of one of your points. As I say, I'm not necessarily defending him, but your reason for targetting him was flawed.QuoteThe fact that you are reciprocating and defending him as well definitely does not look good for either of you.That was right before I voted penguin trenchcoat guy. It seems that it is you that has forgotten.
I'm going to disagree with you here. Take a look at Vector's behavior in Beginner's Mafia 1. Or my behavior in your recent Kingmaker. Or Mephansteras' behavior in Vote Mafia 3. Finding a nice, safe perch from where you can fling your suspicion without looking scummy is a very tempting maneuver to make.Indeed it is. On the other hand, it's also quite a good move for a town player to make - and it's something that a lot of players do. To say that playing like a towny is a scumtell is a fallacy.
What was the purpose of this bit here? Were you trying to reassure me that you think I'm town, in hopes of getting me to lay off? Isn't that what you did to ToonyMan, and which sparked my interested in you in the first place?Well, no. Firstly, my anti-FoS was more of an RVS joke than anything else - after all, some people do RVS based on avatars or random.org. The main reason I said it is because, when two people have a discussion with each other, tunnel vision often develops. It becomes "OMG if he's lynched and he's flipped town then the person accusing him is scum". This isn't always the case, and this can have absolutely disasterous consequences (worst example I've seen was the aforementioned Vote Mafia 3, where the town's two most valuable roles nuked each other). I'm not saying it so you'll lay off - I know that you're a good player, and therefore won't drop suspicion on someone for something as trivial as that. But I'm making it clear that suspicion of me does not automatically make you scum in my eyes, and if I am lynched it does not mean the town should immediately go after you day 2.
Screw, I thought making a suicide would flip suspition. And in a day, things have went from bad to worse.
OK, I really don't have much of an option. If I change my vote to anyone but me, most likely people will either accuse me of picking on innocents, or bandwagoning. Therefor, Unvote vote Self.
I do have a deathwish, however. Just take a look at the middle bit of this quote.We're pretty much set to lynch ExKirby right now. If he flips scum, I think Free Beer is his partner. They both seem to be going after Pandarsenic specifically, and I think they were trying to build a bandwagon earlier on. Also, ExKirby followed after Free Beer blindly towards the beginning of the game (Free Beer voted Pandarsenic then ExKirby voted him, bringing the vote count up to 3).
Now, if ExKirby flips town, we have to look at entirely different suspects. Free Beer could still possibly be scum (he's experienced; he wouldn't bandwagon on an easy lynch as scum), but we also have to look at the people who immediately jumped on ExKirby after the bandwagon started. Org, for instance.
I'll probably have some more to post once I get back from school.
So if you wouldn't mind, take out Org or Pan. Or both.
Screw, I thought making a suicide would flip suspition. And in a day, things have went from bad to worse.
OK, I really don't have much of an option. If I change my vote to anyone but me, most likely people will either accuse me of picking on innocents, or bandwagoning. Therefor, Unvote vote Self.
I do have a deathwish, however. Just take a look at the middle bit of this quote.We're pretty much set to lynch ExKirby right now. If he flips scum, I think Free Beer is his partner. They both seem to be going after Pandarsenic specifically, and I think they were trying to build a bandwagon earlier on. Also, ExKirby followed after Free Beer blindly towards the beginning of the game (Free Beer voted Pandarsenic then ExKirby voted him, bringing the vote count up to 3).
Now, if ExKirby flips town, we have to look at entirely different suspects. Free Beer could still possibly be scum (he's experienced; he wouldn't bandwagon on an easy lynch as scum), but we also have to look at the people who immediately jumped on ExKirby after the bandwagon started. Org, for instance.
I'll probably have some more to post once I get back from school.
So if you wouldn't mind, take out Org or Pan. Or both.
Gah, come on. This is what you have to say. That you give up and are lynching yourself. Town or Scum you have to fight to the last second. Nobody gets anywhere when you just stop.
Also, like Leafsnail said (or Jim I don't remember) saying that Org or Pandar is scum and should be lynched the next day is nothing. You may be town, but that doesn't mean they're scum. (although I believe you and Org are scum).
How so? I answered Pandar's questions, gave my suspiscions, and voted for who I thought could be scum, and I gave reasons why.QuoteLeafsnail, why did you defend Pandarsenic when I voted him? And why did you react so strongly to ToonyMan's accusations toward you, both then and now? Is his opinion of you really so important?I didn't really react strongly to him on either occasion.QuoteAnd good evening to you too, Toony. Anti-FoS for behaving just as you normally do.QuoteCan't say I can see the logic behind this, but whatever. Actually, you seem to be a bit less focused on one player than usual, which is weird, but probably good from a town perspective.
The main reason is because, well, ignoring an accusation of you and trying to stay under the radar isn't helpful from a town perspective. It's far better to put out your arguments and thoughts than to simply stand back like a meek lamb and do nothing at all. Yes, perhaps one random vote on me isn't important, but it would be better if we can band together and find scum.
Also, you seem to be forgetting the background behind you voting Pandarsenic - you only did it because he didn't seize on something I said, partly as a joke, in the random vote stage. It didn't seem to make much sense as an accusation - especially since scum defending each other is actually fairly rare, rare to the point of defending someone (slightly) being a null tell. A scum player is more likely to distance himself from his partner, or perhaps even kick him as he falls to avoid drawing suspicion to himself.
Vote remains on Org, again, for making a post that contained nothing but a bandwagon on an easy target. It could be lazy town, I suppose, but it's certainly not helpful.
So long as you don't accuse me of bandwagoning... and as soon as I get one accusation, I'm swinging my vote back.
Unvote vote Org.
So long as you don't accuse me of bandwagoning... and as soon as I get one accusation, I'm swinging my vote back.
Unvote vote Org.
please expand on that for me toony.
i would of kept my mouth shut about voting myself in the first place so as not to look so scummy
FoS Toony you are not acting yourself and defending another player...
i would of kept my mouth shut about voting myself in the first place so as not to look so scummy
FoS Toony you are not acting yourself and defending another player...
You can't go back in the past, it's too late now. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? You would vote Org, right? I'm just saying this because your logic is flawed. I still think ExKirby is scum mind you.
ExKirby strikes me as feigning inexperience, but even looking through his past posts I can't really make a proper analysis.
There's a chance, of course, that he voted himself in an attempt to draw suspicion away from himself, as ridiculous as it sounds.
"Well, obviously mafia will never vote for themselves!"
He's either quite clever, or extremely newb-ish. As it stands, the only way for him to -not- get lynched is to vote for Org or make an effort to keep the votes tied. The latter option is unlikely to succeed, so the first is the 'best' way to keep himself safe.
Switching to Org suddenly seems like a bandwagon, and a poor attempt to save himself. If he did suddenly vote for Org, we'd point it out, even though it may be his only 'honest' choice. If he's really a townie trying to save himself, that is.
However, if he votes himself, he ultimately breaks the tie and effectively lynches himself. At least, that is until a 'more experienced' player points out that such an action is anti-town, unless he's scum. Under such advice, he'll switch his vote to the only one that lets him survive — Org — and escape the suspicion that would've came with such an act had he switched earlier.
Or, of course, there's always the chance that he's a newb. He's tried to host several mafia games in the past though, so I'm not too sure about this.
...
Admittedly, Org lurks a lot, and his posts up to this point have been minimally constructive, so FoS on him.
Dude. ExKirby. It was all tied up before you voted for yourself. If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im. This is not hard.
To Leafsnail: You make a few good points. And now I've got bigger fish to fry, so Unvote...Dude. ExKirby. It was all tied up before you voted for yourself. If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im. This is not hard.
...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.
1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.
Oh, and just for reference - my vote is not on Org, Dakarian, it's on ExKirby and has been for some time now.
Toonyman, who would your favorite two mafia buddies be?
Did you?Toonyman, who would your favorite two mafia buddies be?
Didn't I answer this before? I think I said Pandarsenic and Diakron.
Why did you decide to help Town this game Org? Is it because you are backstabbing SCUM? And what's with the random vote?
God save my soul for accusing someone for scumhunting, but Org, this behavior is totally uncharacteristic for you, and I think you're playing merely because you don't want to be lynched for lurking.
Current Vote count:
Toonyman[1]: Org
Free Beer[1]: Toonyman
Not voting: Diakron, Pandarsenic, Leafsnail, Free Beer, Vector
Deadline: Monday, 12th, 11am EST
So, maybe I'm positively crazy right here, but I feel like we can see a reason for the change--that is, the threatened bannings for people who don't play the damned game.
Frankly, I don't have much of a clue as to what's going on right now... but Pandarsenic, I think it's quite odd that you're trying to off Org for being helpful. He isn't helpful as scum, he isn't helpful as town, he isn't helpful no matter what role or alignment he has.
I think this is clearly an agenda shift. The question is, why don't you?
Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy? You're being quite subdued.
And even more: Free Beer, O scummish fiend, why are you looking for pairs and pulling suspicion off of Org? Further, why vote me first over ToonyMan? I can't see the rationale behind the attack, which makes me worried. Where there is no rationale, there is scum trying to cook up excuses to vote a given person.
You, sir, are next.
Current Vote count:
Toonyman[1]: Org
Free Beer[1]: Toonyman
Not voting: Diakron, Pandarsenic, Leafsnail, Free Beer, Vector
Deadline: Monday, 12th, 11am EST
OH COME ON
YOU SAW THE VOTE TOO
I KNOW YOU DID
WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS
Unvote. Sorry Toony. :I>:I
No. I am not scum. I want to play a bit better, and it seems everyone says its to scumhunt. :P
It seems I'm just not good at it.
Right now I'm stuck on dakarian(maybe) or even you pandar(although maybe you wouldn't be as helpful). :I
God save my soul for accusing someone for scumhunting, but Org, this behavior is totally uncharacteristic for you, and I think you're playing merely because you don't want to be lynched for lurking.
Fixed.
Also, Toony, what do you mean pairing you with him?
I mean, what exactly is he doing? What is this "pairing you with him" action?
To Leafsnail: You make a few good points. And now I've got bigger fish to fry, so Unvote...Dude. ExKirby. It was all tied up before you voted for yourself. If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im. This is not hard.
...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.
1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.
Dude. ExKirby. It was all tied up before you voted for yourself. If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im. This is not hard.
i would of kept my mouth shut about voting myself in the first place so as not to look so scummy
FoS Toony you are not acting yourself and defending another player...
You can't go back in the past, it's too late now. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? You would vote Org, right? I'm just saying this because your logic is flawed. I still think ExKirby is scum mind you.
...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.
1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.
Or, you know, ExKirby is being a moron and saying "DUR KILL ME THEN KILL ORG," to which I say "If you want Org dead, do the job yourself."
I don't think Org is scum. I think ExKirby is acting funky, and I think he's the best person for the town to kill off for information at this point. I also think that people should be forced to act and play the bloody game. Risks must be taken.[...]
... In summary, let's kill ExKirby and watch Org for a while, because I don't really see why everyone thinks he's scum.
I vote Free Beer for pairing me with Vector. Nothing is worse than pairing, Pandarsenic does it all the time as scum and screws the Town up doing that.
Yes, you are my second choice besides Org.
[...]
Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy? You're being quite subdued.
And even more: Free Beer, O scummish fiend, why are you looking for pairs and pulling suspicion off of Org? Further, why vote me first over ToonyMan? I can't see the rationale behind the attack, which makes me worried. Where there is no rationale, there is scum trying to cook up excuses to vote a given person.
You, sir, are next.
Does "I have exams" mean nothing to you? Such as, say, "Vector cancels playing Mafia; memorizing Analysis proofs"?
Free Beer, I'm beginning to see your point, do a degree. Before I run my own analysis and vote, I need an answer on this matter:
Nihilist had just unvoted you, hadn't he? He hadn't voted for anyone. If anything, he was a very safe kill. It certainly seems more cautious than most people here would play. Also, in accusations of you (read: Toony's accusation of you), nobody has mentioned Apostolic Nihilist's death. Surely if scum was going to accuse you and use Apostolic Nihilist's death as a springboard, you wouldn't have been first to mention it?
Recap of last night and early N2 actions:
Vector breaks his rare silence to manipulate ExKirby (town) into attacking Org (probably also town). It is worth mentioning that this is the exact same mistake which gave him away in Beginner's Mafia 1.
Dude. ExKirby. It was all tied up before you voted for yourself. If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im. This is not hard.
...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.
1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.
ToonyMan doesn't post for the rest of the night - possibly because he thinks he's dead N2 and is conversing with his partner on how to respond. End N1. Begin N2.
Org tags ToonyMan and quickly unvotes. ToonyMan and Vector again coordinate their actions, this time converging on me. It bears mentioning that Vector produced a half-hearted attack on ToonyMan in hopes of dissociating himself.
Does "I have exams" mean nothing to you? Such as, say, "Vector cancels playing Mafia; memorizing Analysis proofs"?
Is "I have exams" the best you can come up with? Your silence makes up less than 5% of my argument against you.
Oh, and it's that time of year. I have exams too.
No. The BM1 mistake was that I jumped, not that I manipulated the town into attacking Org. That was largely Webadict, remember?
Ah, okay. It looked to me like suspicion had turned away from ToonyMan for the moment as votes rotated towards you, but upon more careful consideration I suppose you're right. If you would like to convince everyone else that ToonyMan needs to be lynched today, though, I'll put him back on the list.You attempted to pit townies against each other. That's what gave you away and got webadict after you in the first place, which then later caused you to jump and get half the town on you. Remember now?
I'll ask ToonyMan as well, then, and change the question a little.
To ToonyMan, Org, and eduren:
Out of the three people we seem to have up for serious lynch consideration, which should we pick? Additionally, why do you think the other two (e.g. probably yourself and one other person) should be passed over for today?
I said I didn't particularly want to lynch Org. I don't particularly want to lynch Org.
I might not tell you to move your vote in that case, because I'm town and I'm not too certain about you.
Anyway, all I can say is that I made what I thought was the right move at the time, and I'm going to stand by it. ExKirby was town. I honestly thought he was scum.
You've played scum with me. You know I don't do coordination.
One more time: You voted me, not ToonyMan. I'm the one who would be dead. Not him. This logic is fallacious.
I did not converge on you. I asked three people some fairly half-assed questions. I'm exhausted. Sorry for not spewing WoT everywhere, but I am really, really tired.
Fourth option:
Apoc was a kill you made so you could pretend the scum was framing you and clear yourself as town.
WIFOM, sure, but it's a choice you're not considering.
I said I didn't particularly want to lynch Org. I don't particularly want to lynch Org.
Why, then, did you try to get him lynched by proxy via ExKirby? Your actions do not agree with your words.I might not tell you to move your vote in that case, because I'm town and I'm not too certain about you.
Anyway, all I can say is that I made what I thought was the right move at the time, and I'm going to stand by it. ExKirby was town. I honestly thought he was scum.
Underlines are mine. They also contradict each other.
If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me. That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).
I do not give a damn about lynching Org. I care about teaching ExKirby how to play slightly better than he was. That is all. Perhaps the lesson should have been "If you play like that and fail to take opportunities to save yourself when you're town, you're going to lose us the game." Silly me. I didn't think of that option. I would rather have people who think they're town try to survive. It sounds like a good thing to do.
If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me. That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).
You just admitted that you know Org is town. Only scum would know that.
I do not give a damn about lynching Org. I care about teaching ExKirby how to play slightly better than he was. That is all. Perhaps the lesson should have been "If you play like that and fail to take opportunities to save yourself when you're town, you're going to lose us the game." Silly me. I didn't think of that option. I would rather have people who think they're town try to survive. It sounds like a good thing to do.
Such things are supposed to go in a post-game analysis. In terms of this game, you tried to save someone who you thought was scum by telling him to attack someone you know to be town. Only scum would do that.
Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy? You're being quite subdued.
... How pedantic must I be?
All right. Situation: votes are tied between me and you. You could move your vote over to me and kill me. I know I am town. I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.
No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play. ... Only scum would do that, huh?
I am not scum with Vector! You know how horrible it is to pair people together as scum?! I think you are scum Free Beer.
@Vector:Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy? You're being quite subdued.
Sorry for not answering this sooner. To be honest, I want to win this one personally. I need to keep focus, but also not too much. Org still hasn't done anything and Free Beer is using broken logic.
Just for note though, I am not saying both Org and Free Beer are scum partners. I am saying that each one is scum individually.
I see no accusations scum bucket. Show them.
Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.
...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.
1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.
ToonyMan breaks his rare silence to defend ExKirby's attack on Org even as he FoS's ExKirby:
ToonyMan doesn't post for the rest of the night - possibly because he thinks he's dead N2 and is conversing with his partner on how to respond. End N1.
ToonyMan and Vector again coordinate their actions, this time converging on me. It bears mentioning that Vector produced a half-hearted attack on ToonyMan in hopes of dissociating himself:
Probably most damning is the fact that they DK'd Apostolic - they obviously did so in hopes of drawing suspicion toward me. The scum clearly want me dead, because I have them pegged. Classic scum technique, and it completely gives both of them away.
If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me. That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).
I do not give a damn about lynching Org. I care about teaching ExKirby how to play slightly better than he was. That is all. Perhaps the lesson should have been "If you play like that and fail to take opportunities to save yourself when you're town, you're going to lose us the game." Silly me. I didn't think of that option. I would rather have people who think they're town try to survive. It sounds like a good thing to do.
Why are you voting Vector then?!
What is Toony Tunnel?Toony Tunnel is when, during the RVS, he asserts he knows someone to be scum and pressures them until they crack.
To Vector:... How pedantic must I be?
All right. Situation: votes are tied between me and you. You could move your vote over to me and kill me. I know I am town. I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.
Too late, you've already slipped. Not that your line of reasoning actually accomplishes anything, since it still doesn't explain why you tried to get Org (who you know to be town) killed.No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play. ... Only scum would do that, huh?
This isn't Beginner's Mafia, and ExKirby isn't totally green. He actually has more prior experience playing town than I do. Got anything else to say, scum?
Perhaps Vector is a scum power role and ToonyMan is an ordinary scum?
To Vector:... How pedantic must I be?
All right. Situation: votes are tied between me and you. You could move your vote over to me and kill me. I know I am town. I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.
Too late, you've already slipped. Not that your line of reasoning actually accomplishes anything, since it still doesn't explain why you tried to get Org (who you know to be town) killed.No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play. ... Only scum would do that, huh?
This isn't Beginner's Mafia, and ExKirby isn't totally green. He actually has more prior experience playing town than I do. Got anything else to say, scum?
1. I do not know that Org is town, darn it. I know that I am town. I know nothing about anybody else.
2. I didn't know that ExKirby had more experience than you. I try to be helpful when I can be. Apparently, that's not the right answer. I will try to curb my helpfulness in the future, I suppose.Perhaps Vector is a scum power role and ToonyMan is an ordinary scum?
Perhaps Vector is vanilla town who communicates badly.
You were pretending to be me, and the only way to know I was town is either be Mafia or guess.To Vector:... How pedantic must I be?
All right. Situation: votes are tied between me and you. You could move your vote over to me and kill me. I know I am town. I am not going to suggest that you make the move, because that would be needlessly killing a confirmed townie.
Too late, you've already slipped. Not that your line of reasoning actually accomplishes anything, since it still doesn't explain why you tried to get Org (who you know to be town) killed.No, I tried to teach a beginner how to play. ... Only scum would do that, huh?
This isn't Beginner's Mafia, and ExKirby isn't totally green. He actually has more prior experience playing town than I do. Got anything else to say, scum?
1. I do not know that Org is town, darn it. I know that I am town. I know nothing about anybody else.
2. I didn't know that ExKirby had more experience than you. I try to be helpful when I can be. Apparently, that's not the right answer. I will try to curb my helpfulness in the future, I suppose.Perhaps Vector is a scum power role and ToonyMan is an ordinary scum?
Perhaps Vector is vanilla town who communicates badly.
You were pretending to be me, and the only way to know I was town is either be Mafia or guess.
Don't take this as having lost focus on Vector, however. He is most definitely scum. Observe: he's got the majority vote, yet he is doing nothing. He's stopped arguing in his own defense (despite the mountain of evidence still waiting for him a few posts back), and he hasn't followed up on any of his suspicions. Everyone responded to his questions ages ago.
What's the matter, Vector? Afraid you'll give off even more scum tells than you already have? Is talking with your scumbuddy really that much more interesting than talking with us?
Unvote.
Free Beer, why are you hitting Vector so much? You seem to be attacking him very strongly, and yet I cannot see exactly why. As far as I can tell, it's just because he said "Org is town" by accident. I'll agree that this would be a mistake, but I'm not sure if it merits this kind of tunnel vision attack.
Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.
Vector breaks his rare silence to manipulate ExKirby (town) into attacking Org (probably also town). It is worth mentioning that this is the exact same mistake which gave him away in Beginner's Mafia 1:Dude. ExKirby. It was all tied up before you voted for yourself. If you want Org dead that badly, move your vote over and kill 'im. This is not hard.
...Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.
1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.
Vector makes excuses but fails to present any decent points in his own defense. He also contradicts his earlier actions, defending Org despite his earlier attempt to get Org lynched:Or, you know, ExKirby is being a moron and saying "DUR KILL ME THEN KILL ORG," to which I say "If you want Org dead, do the job yourself."
I don't think Org is scum. I think ExKirby is acting funky, and I think he's the best person for the town to kill off for information at this point. I also think that people should be forced to act and play the bloody game. Risks must be taken.[...]
... In summary, let's kill ExKirby and watch Org for a while, because I don't really see why everyone thinks he's scum.
ToonyMan and Vector again coordinate their actions, this time converging on me. It bears mentioning that Vector produced a half-hearted attack on ToonyMan in hopes of dissociating himself:[...][...]
Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy? You're being quite subdued.
And even more: Free Beer, O scummish fiend, why are you looking for pairs and pulling suspicion off of Org? Further, why vote me first over ToonyMan? I can't see the rationale behind the attack, which makes me worried. Where there is no rationale, there is scum trying to cook up excuses to vote a given person.
You, sir, are next.
Probably most damning is the fact that they DK'd Apostolic - they obviously did so in hopes of drawing suspicion toward me. The scum clearly want me dead, because I have them pegged. Classic scum technique, and it completely gives both of them away.
I could come up with a bandwagoning-on-ExKirby based argument as well, but I like what I've got better.
I might not tell you to move your vote in that case, because I'm town and I'm not too certain about you.
Anyway, all I can say is that I made what I thought was the right move at the time, and I'm going to stand by it. ExKirby was town. I honestly thought he was scum.
Underlines are mine. They also contradict each other.
You devoted a paragraph to Pandarsenic, whom you voted for. You devoted two sentences to ToonyMan, which actually contradicted an earlier statement when you said he wasn't suspicious to you (his behavior never changed from then to now). You devoted a paragraph to me, followed by the statement "you're next." After Pandarsenic asked you for more information about your accusation toward him, you stated you were more interested in the responses of ToonyMan and myself. My explanation for your behavior is quite likely, and it assumes you are scum.
If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me. That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).
You just admitted that you know Org is town. Only scum would know that.
Observe: he's got the majority vote, yet he is doing nothing. He's stopped arguing in his own defense (despite the mountain of evidence still waiting for him a few posts back), and he hasn't followed up on any of his suspicions. Everyone responded to his questions ages ago.
You take the way I speak as "slipping," when it isn't. I have trouble with this stuff, and I'm trying to patiently explain what I actually meant, rather than what you heard--and you'll have none of it.
MOD: Diakron needs to be prodded/replaced. If he's actually here, FoS Diakron for watching us duke it out without providing his own opinion.
In summary, Vector's story is NOT consistent, and he's been dropping scum-tells left, right, and center. And instead of acknowledging his mistakes, he is trying to downplay them.
Ok, fair enough. Seems like a good summary. Unvote.
On the other hand, ToonyMan, you've been very, very quiet. Even as you were accused, you only seemed to respond half heartedly. Also, as Free Beer has been attacking Vector, you have said nothing. Where's your normal aggressive play? Why are you trying to avoid detection?
In summary, Vector's story is NOT consistent, and he's been dropping scum-tells left, right, and center. And instead of acknowledging his mistakes, he is trying to downplay them.
I'm not trying to downplay my mistakes. I'm trying to tell you why they're happening: that being, it is hard for me to figure out how to say things in a way that other people will understand them.
I don't really feel like I'm making mistakes. I feel like I'm being perfectly reasonable and clear, and that all of you folks just can't seem to understand what I'm saying. Your minds are bending my words into improper forms. As such, I'm not apologizing for your perception of mistakes. I'm trying to re-explain the situation in a format comprehensible to you.
Just as I cannot blame your mind for failure to understand my meaning, I cannot blame myself for speaking in a way you find difficult. The most I can do is try to change, and hope that with time I will make more sense to you.
If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me. That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).
You just admitted that you know Org is town. Only scum would know that.
In summary, Vector's story is NOT consistent, and he's been dropping scum-tells left, right, and center. And instead of acknowledging his mistakes, he is trying to downplay them.
I'm not trying to downplay my mistakes. I'm trying to tell you why they're happening: that being, it is hard for me to figure out how to say things in a way that other people will understand them.
I don't really feel like I'm making mistakes. I feel like I'm being perfectly reasonable and clear, and that all of you folks just can't seem to understand what I'm saying. Your minds are bending my words into improper forms. As such, I'm not apologizing for your perception of mistakes. I'm trying to re-explain the situation in a format comprehensible to you.
Just as I cannot blame your mind for failure to understand my meaning, I cannot blame myself for speaking in a way you find difficult. The most I can do is try to change, and hope that with time I will make more sense to you.
This is a load of bull. Let's go over the alleged miscommunication, shall we?
2. No. No, no, no, no, no.If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me. That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).
You just admitted that you know Org is town. Only scum would know that.
Your intent was quite clear. You wanted to say that Org would not have pointed out that ExKirby could have saved himself. Presumably somehow this was supposed to justify your action in pointing out that action to ExKirby. However, you are sorely mistaken. As I mentioned previously:
- You thought Org was town and ExKirby was scum. Your action, if successful, would have saved someone you thought was scum in order to condemn someone that you thought was town. My explanation, that you are scum who tried to manipulate ExKirby into attacking Org, makes more sense.
- Your entire hypothetical situation was constructed around the idea that Org was town, and you forgot to mention that your assumption or account for the case where Org was scum. This is a major scum-tell - if you're scum, you already know Org's alignment, and it influences your thinking no matter how much you try to avoid it. By neglecting to account for the situation where Org was scum, you revealed that you knew more than you were letting on.
1. Screw you.This is why I play Mafia with people over the internet, and not my friends.
2. No. No, no, no, no, no.
My intent:
IF we had the original situation with ExKirby and some other random player X (but not Vector) in Org's position, I would tell ExKirby to switch his vote. This is because ExKirby was being a moron, and I wanted to help him out. Yes, even if he's being scum. Being helpful is good!
IF we had some random player Y in ExKirby's position but myself in Org's, I would not tell Y to switch his vote. This is because I am town, and as such do not feel like committing suicide.
My entire hypothetical situation is constructed around my being town--which is an incontrovertible fact. I keep trying to say this. It has very little to do with Org.
If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me. That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).The statement which I underlined indicates that in your hypothetical you had stepped into Org's position completely. If you were simply talking about having the a vote tie, you would not have written the underlined statement. Furthermore, talking about your own alignment in this hypothetical makes no sense: it only has a point within your whole argument if it explains why Org was not going to do anything, thus allowing motivatation your own action.
Why don't you ask me answerable questions, damn it? You keep telling me what my intentions are and saying that I'm slipping. You won't listen to my defenses as I try my hardest to explain myself. This is extremely frustrating. It feels like I can't do anything, and yet you keep trying to goad me into talking more. Are you milking this for all it's worth, so you can keep the town focused on me while you and your scumbuddy get a free ride?
If you want more information out of me, ask me something. As it is, you're telling me to defend myself over and over, then telling me my explanations are just plain wrong. It's making me irritated.
3. Thanks, Toony.
My point remains. Vector though ExKirby was scum. Vector helped ExKirby. What the heck was Vector thinking?
IF we had some random player Y in ExKirby's position but myself in Org's, I would not tell Y to switch his vote. This is because I am town, and as such do not feel like committing suicide.
My entire hypothetical situation is constructed around my being town--which is an incontrovertible fact. I keep trying to say this. It has very little to do with Org.
That isn't what you said. You said if I were in ExKirby's place and you were in Org's place (thereby implying you took on Org's alignment as well), you would not tell me I could save myself, because you knew you (in Org's place) were town. I present the following to back up my case:If you were in ExKirby's place and I were in Org's, I wouldn't have told you to switch your vote to me. That is because I am town, and I would rather have somebody unconfirmed (to me) die than myself (a known townie in my little world).The statement which I underlined indicates that in your hypothetical you had stepped into Org's position completely. If you were simply talking about having the a vote tie, you would not have written the underlined statement. Furthermore, talking about your own alignment in this hypothetical makes no sense: it only has a point within your whole argument if it explains why Org was not going to do anything, thus allowing motivatation your own action.
So then convince me you aren't scum. All you'd really need is a consistent explanation for your behavior that takes into account everything I've mentioned. But really, I think that's impossible too. You'd be right to be frustrated, because I've caught you in your own lies and I am not going to let you escape easily.
3. Thanks, Toony.
If you were town, you'd recognize this as Toony attempting to buddy up to you. You'd remember I already have the two of you associated, and that, by defending you from me instead of defending himself from Leafsnail, he's only associating himself with you further. You'd be suspicious, not receptive. Your response only serves to incriminate both of you even more.
Vector was thinking ExKirby was a beginner, and also a human. Vector considers the value "human" more important than the value "potential scum." Vector has a rule of functionality which implies that Vector should help humans.
If you can't understand what I'm saying, please let me know.
Huh? No. I meant "In my perspective, I am town. Others may declare me non-town, but given my data-set [a PM from the mod saying that I am, in fact, town] I am town."
I didn't mean to imply that I was taking on Org's alignment. I meant "me, in the vote-tie situation." It is important that I am town there, as well as town in all the other situations. What I am saying is that I would encourage him to vote a potential-townie, but not a confirmed townie. In my mind, I am a confirmed townie. I know I am not a confirmed townie to the rest of you. Hence, I said "CT in my mind" rather than "CT," because I am not a CT in the standard sense.
If I'd stepped into Org's position completely, wouldn't the answer be "Do nothing, because I'm Org?" It's clear that I didn't make a full transition.
"VT who communicates badly." Oh, wait. Haha. You think that's a lie. You won't believe me.
[...]
If you want to lynch me, then you can, but don't say I didn't try to convince you otherwise. I'm trying my hardest.
If I were HUMAN, then I'd take someone who is DEFENDING ME as an ACT OF KINDNESS.
This is not about scum vs. town. This is about not being able to tell you things correctly. [...]
Vector was thinking ExKirby was a beginner, and also a human. Vector considers the value "human" more important than the value "potential scum." Vector has a rule of functionality which implies that Vector should help humans.
If you can't understand what I'm saying, please let me know.
I understand that it is more important to you to buddy up to the other players than to catch the scum.
Huh? No. I meant "In my perspective, I am town. Others may declare me non-town, but given my data-set [a PM from the mod saying that I am, in fact, town] I am town."
I didn't mean to imply that I was taking on Org's alignment. I meant "me, in the vote-tie situation." It is important that I am town there, as well as town in all the other situations. What I am saying is that I would encourage him to vote a potential-townie, but not a confirmed townie. In my mind, I am a confirmed townie. I know I am not a confirmed townie to the rest of you. Hence, I said "CT in my mind" rather than "CT," because I am not a CT in the standard sense.
If I'd stepped into Org's position completely, wouldn't the answer be "Do nothing, because I'm Org?" It's clear that I didn't make a full transition.
Given your current explanation, that hypothetical had no point within the context of your larger argument. Are you just throwing out words as a smoke screen?
"VT who communicates badly." Oh, wait. Haha. You think that's a lie. You won't believe me.You're a math major who knows at least basic Analysis. You're educated enough to be able to come up with a decent argument. We've seen what you're capable of when you proved that the Scum Group was Abelian. Your current performance is far below that.
[...]
If you want to lynch me, then you can, but don't say I didn't try to convince you otherwise. I'm trying my hardest.
If I were HUMAN, then I'd take someone who is DEFENDING ME as an ACT OF KINDNESS.
If you were town and you didn't recognize the obvious buddying, then after I pointed out ToonyMan's suspicious behavior toward you and its implications, you would then become suspicious instead of defending him. Your second response incriminates both of you even more.
This is not about scum vs. town. This is about not being able to tell you things correctly. [...]
Oh, excuse me. I thought this thread was dedicated to a game of Mafia. I'll see myself out. ::)
It's more important to be kind than it is to win a game.
Nope. I'm exhausting the possibilities so that you can't establish any contradictory behavior in my argument. Essentially, "I would act as I did in all cases except for the case where I would be killed." If I said "I would always act like that," it would be telling a lie.
Essentially, think mathematically. I eliminated the pathological argument before you asked me, so that my proof would make sense.
I'm a math major who is good at playing with numbers and bad at playing with people. The properties of people are much more difficult to decipher than those of mathematical structures. A mapping of sorts can be performed between Mafia procedures and general social skill. That is why I am here, trying to play with you. It may not be working well, but I'm trying.
Further, math usually doesn't frustrate me.
So, this is my point. Ability to make social arguments does not necessarily correlate to ability to make arguments in general. I am skilled at looking at systems with simple objects, and figuring out how the objects interact based on known properties. This works well if things have binary truth-values. This does not work well if we're working with people, which are confusing and fuzzy.
::) Sorry, I see things differently. Plus, if I were scum with him... wouldn't I have thanked him in our scumchat? No, instead I thank him on the thread, because I'm grateful. I can be grateful to him and suspicious of him simultaneously.
Further, I really want to know what Pandarsenic and Org have to say before I go off trying to kill him.
Additionally, town can defend town. I'm not going to go try to get him lynched just because you say so.
::) Yeah, I'm here to play Mafia. I'm also here to try to get along with people. Sometimes one of these goals stomps on the other one.
Example of Mafia stomping amity: BM3, D1, myself and Diakron
Example of amity stomping Mafia: this.
It's more important to be kind than it is to win a game.
So you admit it! You're buddying (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Buddying_Up)! You're scum!
Nope. I'm exhausting the possibilities so that you can't establish any contradictory behavior in my argument. Essentially, "I would act as I did in all cases except for the case where I would be killed." If I said "I would always act like that," it would be telling a lie.
Essentially, think mathematically. I eliminated the pathological argument before you asked me, so that my proof would make sense.
Doesn't work. Your hypothetical involved me taking the place of ExKirby. Your argument now is that you'd help a beginner in any case other than the one that leads to your death. I'm not a beginner.
What you said only applies to analyzing and/or reading people. I am referring to arguments, which use the exact same principles. Specifically, I asked for a consistent story that explains your behavior. You should be able to come up with that.
Town can defend town. Does town reciprocate without both parties being confirmed? Hell no.
CRUCIFY THE SCUM!
CRUCIFY!
CRUCIFY!
CRUCIFY!
CRUCIFY!
CRUCIFY!
Unvote.Thanks for explaining why you want to vote me there, scum.
Also, this would be a hell of a lot easier on me if you would ask me actual questions, rather than throwing WoT and telling me that my explanations just aren't addressing the problem. What information do you want, anyway?
Further, I'd like to know where Diakron, Org, Pandarsenic, and ToonyMan are. I realize that 2/4 of these are trying to change their play style and 1/4 always looks like scum, but it would be nice if y'all would stop hiding behind your excuses and show up.
Who do all of you think are town, and who do you think is scum?
Practically the entire town is voting me at this point. I think I have the right to pressure you to show up. What, you want me to not vote at all?That really doesnt explain it.
Oh, or I could vote ToonyMan... who I don't really think is scum.
Nope. Please be constructive. Then I will switch to Pandarsenic.
That really doesnt explain it.
Show up what?
What am I, deep-striking?
Yeah, I think Dakarian made a mistake. I think we should have at least 24 hours or something.
So... we need to find out who we're going to lynch. I will request here that everyone posts a list of their opinions on everyone else. It's time to do some deep thinking and figure out what's really happening.
Two notices to everyone:Would you be averse to me taking over Diakron?
I'm going to end up missing that 11am deadline tomorrow. I have two choices:
End it midnight tonight or
midnight tomorrow night
Accepting votes: Whichever has more by tonight follows through. If there's a tie I'll base it on the conversation.
Second: Diakron has requested a substitution due to RL matters.
Would you be averse to me taking over Diakron?
Geez, SOMEONE has a vendetta.Would you be averse to me taking over Diakron?
Good lord. I guess Scumadict would be easier to deal with than a blank slate, but still.
Meh. If I feel like I'm going to have a heart attack, I'll back away from the computer. Should be fine.
Geez, SOMEONE has a vendetta.Would you be averse to me taking over Diakron?
Good lord. I guess Scumadict would be easier to deal with than a blank slate, but still.
Meh. If I feel like I'm going to have a heart attack, I'll back away from the computer. Should be fine.
I need an update of the Days' events.
*sigh* Why, oh why, do you always turn out to be scum, Vector?
Ha ha. Only kidding. For now. On the real hand, Leafsnail is scum. And, by association, ToonyMan is likely his partner.
Case solved. Let's go home. I've got tea boiling on the stove. I'd like to say this is a new record. If I'm right.
How DON'T you know?*sigh* Why, oh why, do you always turn out to be scum, Vector?
Ha ha. Only kidding. For now. On the real hand, Leafsnail is scum. And, by association, ToonyMan is likely his partner.
Case solved. Let's go home. I've got tea boiling on the stove. I'd like to say this is a new record. If I'm right.
... Dude, I am not following you until you post some evidence. How do you know?
How DON'T you know?
Classic webadict. Gonna post your reasoning, ever?Reasoning? I looked at one page and he seemed scummy.
...I'd say that one page of looking scummy is quite enough. If it only takes one, you obviously aren't very good at it...
"I looked at one page and he seemed scummy"
I can't defend myself from an unspecified and baseless accusation, webadict.
Firstly - what page?Breakdown? Hardly my plan. That USED to work, before people knew who I was or how I did things. Now I just look to see if you mean something. Because that's what differs town from scum. Do you MEAN what you say, or are you speaking just to speak?
Secondly - why?
I can't say anything in response to allegations if they're so damn vague. I know some people will break down if you randomly point your finger at them, but I won't.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg797351#msg797351Explanation of why bandwagonning is bad. Ok, maybe you feel he should know. He doesn't. Why is it bad to say explain?
Useless talking...
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg797682#msg797682Trying to explain what I thought, actually. Sure, it may seem "useless" to you since we're past that phase now, but that is what I felt. Interpret it how you will.
Useless talking...
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg798858#msg798858I always try to explain in detail. If you think it's more information than is needed, then sorry, but I'd prefer to err on the side of explaining too much than being vague about my thoughts.
Over-explanatory...
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg795191#msg795191Random vote stage, webadict. You can vote people based on avatars and usernames in it. It was more of a joke about Toony's playstyle than anything else.
Saying the phrase "Anti-FoS"
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg795357#msg795357Exaggeration. Here "impossible" means "very difficult". It is used fairly commonly in English speech and writing.
Contradicting what you just said (If he's impossible to read, he can't act in any certain fashion, now can he?)
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg795373#msg795373Pointing something out. I don't see how pointing things out is automatically a scumtell.
Useless talking...
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg795483#msg795483How do you know I "don't mean it"? And why is something that's "almost meant" a scumtell, anyway?
This is ALMOST meant. But it's not quite.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg798958#msg798958It was a direct response to AN's post. That doesn't make it useless.
Geez, do you just post to post? How about you say something relevant.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg799023#msg799023Well, it's defense, really. Again, it's a direct response to a post. Perhaps you don't like to respond directly to other people's posts, preferring to just jump in and yell "HE DID IT!", but that's not what I do. I prefer to answer other people's posts, and refer to specific points, even if you think that doing so is useless.
Passivity, uselessness, and over-explanatory.
why didn't you say, "That's not really a whole lot to go off of..." or perhaps, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard!" or even, "Whatever."Because simply being a Towny doesn't necessarily mean that you'll never drop a "scumtell". I mean, responding "Whatever" is even more useless than being defeatist about it. And simply wrongly accusing someone doesn't necessarily make you "stupid" either.
No, you moron. I admit that I want to get along with people more than I want to win. If I were "buddying" as scum, then I would be trying to win. I want to win, certainly... but more than that, I want to be helpful.
Doesn't work. Your hypothetical involved me taking the place of ExKirby. Your argument now is that you'd help a beginner in any case other than the one that leads to your death. I'm not a beginner.
If you were acting like ExKirby, then you would be.
Arguments don't work if you can't figure out how to transmit your information in such a way that your reader can understand. My consistent story is that I am a townie who is having trouble giving you explanations. I see no inconsistencies there.
When I am making mathematical arguments, I must only convince myself and I have convinced every mathematician. When I am making social arguments, like these, the same is not the case. I must analyze the other players of this game to give them convincing argumentation.
So Mafia trumps Amity when you're town, and Amity trumps Mafia when you're scum. It all makes perfect sense!
Leafsnail: Anti-FoS'd both ToonyMan and myself. If it's not Vector or ToonyMan, it's Leafsnail.When did I anti-FoS you? And if I'm defending you as a partner, wouldn't, that, well, make you scum too?
QuoteLeafsnail: Anti-FoS'd both ToonyMan and myself. If it's not Vector or ToonyMan, it's Leafsnail.When did I anti-FoS you? And if I'm defending you as a partner, wouldn't, that, well, make you scum too?
Although, to be honest, Free Beer, I don't think you're too likely to be scum. A scum player would be more likely to kick me or someone else after a bandwagon has formed, and we are down and unable to defend ourselves properly. I suppose it's the people who bandwagon onto something without adding anything that you really need to watch.
What was the purpose of this bit here? Were you trying to reassure me that you think I'm town, in hopes of getting me to lay off? Isn't that what you did to ToonyMan, and which sparked my interested in you in the first place?
Diakron/Webadict- FoS'd a couple of people N1. Focused on Org. Not present D2. No idea.I'm here now.
To Vector:No, you moron. I admit that I want to get along with people more than I want to win. If I were "buddying" as scum, then I would be trying to win. I want to win, certainly... but more than that, I want to be helpful.
I don't buy it. If you weren't playing to win, you'd be posting in GD or the DF-related subforums instead. You're buddying. You're scum. CRUCIFY!
And even if you really are town, the very fact that you have admitted to not be playing to win means your behavior is by definition anti-town. You're still the best lynch at this point.
Doesn't work. Your hypothetical involved me taking the place of ExKirby. Your argument now is that you'd help a beginner in any case other than the one that leads to your death. I'm not a beginner.
If you were acting like ExKirby, then you would be.
Arguments don't work if you can't figure out how to transmit your information in such a way that your reader can understand. My consistent story is that I am a townie who is having trouble giving you explanations. I see no inconsistencies there.
It doesn't explain your behavior N1. It doesn't explain your behavior RE ToonyMan. It doesn't explain why you were passive until I called you out on it. It doesn't explain why you're unrepentant about buddying. It doesn't explain why you mis-quoted your role PM. Shall i continue?
When I am making mathematical arguments, I must only convince myself and I have convinced every mathematician. When I am making social arguments, like these, the same is not the case. I must analyze the other players of this game to give them convincing argumentation.
This only works because mathematical arguments follow specific rules. Said rules, if followed when coming up with social arguments, will also have the same success.
So Mafia trumps Amity when you're town, and Amity trumps Mafia when you're scum. It all makes perfect sense!
You conveniently ignored this part. Probably because it's right.
In any case, I consider an anti-FoS to be a form of buddying.That wasn't an anti-FoS, just a post to say that I felt you were most likely town. I mean, not everyone is a mafia member, after all.
If you die and flip scum, the people you've identified as town will be heavily scrutinized.On the other hand, since I'm not scum, that won't be a problem.
Therefore, anti-FoSing people is a valid strategy for scum and is also a scumtell.It's a valid strategy for scum... but can't townies also say who they think is town? I honestly did not feel that you were scum at that point, so I decided to post that. I mean, would you prefer I said "AFTER I DIE AND FLIP TOWN YOU MUST LYNCH FREE BEER TEH SCUM!!"?
Oh, and you can add over-reaction back to my list of suspicions about you.Whether town or scum, you should defend yourself.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42348.msg810077#msg810077
If it matters Vector, I haven't gone for you off the bat. That's certainly an improvement.
I questioned ExKirby and voted him. I also gave him advice. This is not an entirely binary situation...which is why I am suspicious of you. You had nothing to gain as town by sending out mixed signals like that. Other the other hand, as scum, if Org died instead of ExKirby, ExKirby would have made an easy N2 lynch - doubly so since he would have been mostly responsible for killing Org in order to save himself. If Org is town and your action was successful, we'd be at 3/2 with no new information.
You think I wouldn't do the same thing for you? ExKirby has more experience than you do, as you said. If you are not a beginner, then he probably shouldn't be declared one, either... and yet I tried to help him, because it's the kinder thing to do.
1. Yeah. I'm a person who wants to learn how to get along with people.
2. First off, I wasn't lying in BM1. I'm actually a pretty passive person, until my temper gets the best of me.
- RL issues, which are not exactly your business.
3. Even if he's scum, I appreciate someone--anyone--sticking up for me.
- He said nothing suspicious, so I didn't attack him D1. I was busy with ExKirby.
4. I do not have to play the game by your standards alone, Free Beer. I will not apologize for trying to be helpful.
5. Why aren't you getting angry at Leafsnail for trying to help ExKirby?
6. I didn't quote my role PM verbatim because I would be mod-killed. Further, I'm a townie with no special powers whatsoever.
Have you ever tried that? It's false. You can't treat people like variables with a couple of well-defined properties. They get upset, and you end up being generally wrong. The set of their attributes is non-compact, in a way. They are open and unbounded, a forest of variation.
I would give you examples of it not working, but I don't think you'd believe me.
I conveniently ignored that part. It's false, and it was right in front of an injunction to crucify me. You conveniently ignored the part where I said there was something seriously wrong with you. Here's a hint: follow the damned social cues. This is a game, and there is such a thing as being too aggressive.
Mafia trumps amity sometimes. Amity trumps Mafia sometimes. It has more to do with mood than alignment.
I have also been altruistic as town, in BM3. I have been hyperaggressive as scum in Toon Mafia II, D1.
Further, you cannot build a trend out of one data point. That is nonsensical and incorrect. Just because I acted one way as town does not mean that, when I am acting in the diametrically opposed behavior, I am scum. Your imagined functions are single-valued. I am multivariable.
I haven't anti-FOS'd you. I said that you didn't look like scum to me at the moment. You look like some sort of asshole trying to intimidate my stubbornness out my ears, so I'll lie down and allow myself to be lynched. My dislike of you does not mean you cannot be town. It just means that I don't really want to play games with you if you're going to act like this.
You've got problems, dude. You're probably town, because no scum would act like this.You said it's highly unlikely for me to be scum, then proceeded to FoS every other active player except me. That's about as anti-FoSing as it gets there. Considering ToonyMan's repeated mentions of how it's "impossible" for me to be "bussing you," I'd think you're laying the groundwork for a N3 Free Beer lynch after you flip scum.
So, after I flip town, my suggestion is that y'all take a look at Pandarsenic and Org, just because they've been standing back while we eat each other. Maybe ToonyMan, too, because Free Beer may be correct about the buddying--though I think he'd be less overt about it. I also think that Pandarsenic has been a bit too jumpy for my tastes.
Heck, Leafsnail... what do you think about the current mess? ToonyMan showed up and posted, so I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Further, I haven't admitted to buddying. Buddying is a strategy used by scum when they are trying to lure the town into a false sense of security. My altruism is non-strategic.
I stated that you implied you were buddying. You attempted to justify it. That constitutes admitting it.I understand that it is more important to you to buddy up to the other players than to catch the scum.
It's more important to be kind than it is to win a game.
From how many games will I be banned for quoting my role PM?Don't you dare fucking do that. >:[
From how many games will I be banned for quoting my role PM?Don't you dare fucking do that. >:[
I'm tempted to vote you for trying to blackmail us out of voting you.
We'll see properly if you're scum once I'm done with classes (around 4) and can actually catch up....
And Blackmailing Town=/=No Lynch
See, you know posting your role PM is not allowed. You know you aren't going to do it. You're trying to sound more town by offering yourself up, so to speak, but you aren't able to offer yourself up that way and we all know it.
It helps when you quote said question.And Blackmailing Town=/=No Lynch
... Did you not read the part where I said I'd vote for myself instead? There's no need for me to Impulsively Show Free Beer What's What, when it looks like it'll happen at the end of the day in any case.
Don't worry. I'm going to calm down and work on some math problems, and then go back and answer Free Beer once I can do so without smacking him.
Further, Org:
What about that question I asked a couple of pages back?See, you know posting your role PM is not allowed. You know you aren't going to do it. You're trying to sound more town by offering yourself up, so to speak, but you aren't able to offer yourself up that way and we all know it.
Erm, no. I was actually going to do it. Then I realized that I had a couple of options:
1. Replacement (Too pissed at Free Beer to do this right now)
2. Post PM -> everyone pissed at me, bannings, but at least I showed Free Beer, town gets a couple of hours to scumhunt [kind of ineffective, given the goal].
3. Vote self -> less pissedness (... I hope), no bannings, managed to show Free Beer anyway, same effect on town's ability to scumhunt.
3 clearly dominates 2, so I figure I'd rather go with being lynched over posting the PM. Also, I apologize if you thought I was trying to blackmail you. That was in no way my intention, though I understand why you might think it was a gambit.
... So, Org and Leafsnail. Going to actually give your information, or are you going to just show up when I try to get myself modkilled?
That really doesnt explain it.
Show up what?
What am I, deep-striking?
I'm voting you because I would like you to appear and generate posts with actual content. You are not doing this. You are jumping on a bandwagon and following Free Beer blindly. Have anything to say about my arguments? Have anything to say about other scum? Have any questions for me?
Essentially, are you actually processing things, or are you just following Free Beer?
So... we need to find out who we're going to lynch. I will request here that everyone posts a list of their opinions on everyone else. It's time to do some deep thinking and figure out what's really happening.
You can just change the pm anyway. :I
Really, Vector, now you're just contradicting yourself. I'm tired of arguing with you and I want to see you dead, because I already know you're scum.
I questioned ExKirby and voted him. I also gave him advice. This is not an entirely binary situation...which is why I am suspicious of you. You had nothing to gain as town by sending out mixed signals like that. Other the other hand, as scum, if Org died instead of ExKirby, ExKirby would have made an easy N2 lynch - doubly so since he would have been mostly responsible for killing Org in order to save himself. If Org is town and your action was successful, we'd be at 3/2 with no new information.
1. Yeah. I'm a person who wants to learn how to get along with people.
2. First off, I wasn't lying in BM1. I'm actually a pretty passive person, until my temper gets the best of me.
- RL issues, which are not exactly your business.
3. Even if he's scum, I appreciate someone--anyone--sticking up for me.
- He said nothing suspicious, so I didn't attack him D1. I was busy with ExKirby.
4. I do not have to play the game by your standards alone, Free Beer. I will not apologize for trying to be helpful.
This is a game of Mafia, not Barbie Horse Adventures. As I had already pointed out, these make you look more suspicious, not less.
6. I didn't quote my role PM verbatim because I would be mod-killed. Further, I'm a townie with no special powers whatsoever.
If you check the flavor text for this game, you will find that there is in fact no role called "Townie." They are called "Recruits." Further, when you stated your role PM vindicates you, you said that this PM specifically identified you as town. Again, check the flavor text. There is no "town." This is the Litia family rooting out spies. Of course, a spy like you wouldn't have gotten the memo about all of this.
You don't seem to be getting it, so I'll be a direct as possible: I am asking you to use logic and evidence. Both of these work in Mathematics. They work in real life, as well.
And you didn't pick up that citing a couple of examples combined with propaganda does not constitute good reasoning. In the general case, your actions are scum-tells. You're emitting them like Uranium emits alpha particles. And your crummy excuse of "I want to be helpful" doesn't cut it.
I haven't anti-FOS'd you. I said that you didn't look like scum to me at the moment. You look like some sort of asshole trying to intimidate my stubbornness out my ears, so I'll lie down and allow myself to be lynched. My dislike of you does not mean you cannot be town. It just means that I don't really want to play games with you if you're going to act like this.
That's not what you said. This is what you said:You've got problems, dude. You're probably town, because no scum would act like this.You said it's highly unlikely for me to be scum, then proceeded to FoS every other active player except me. That's about as anti-FoSing as it gets there. Considering ToonyMan's repeated mentions of how it's "impossible" for me to be "bussing you," I'd think you're laying the groundwork for a N3 Free Beer lynch after you flip scum.
So, after I flip town, my suggestion is that y'all take a look at Pandarsenic and Org, just because they've been standing back while we eat each other. Maybe ToonyMan, too, because Free Beer may be correct about the buddying--though I think he'd be less overt about it. I also think that Pandarsenic has been a bit too jumpy for my tastes.
Heck, Leafsnail... what do you think about the current mess? ToonyMan showed up and posted, so I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Further, I haven't admitted to buddying. Buddying is a strategy used by scum when they are trying to lure the town into a false sense of security. My altruism is non-strategic.
Then what was this?I stated that you implied you were buddying. You attempted to justify it. That constitutes admitting it.I understand that it is more important to you to buddy up to the other players than to catch the scum.It's more important to be kind than it is to win a game.
If it involves the role PM, it is a NO. If there's a MENTION of it again, I reserve the right to do anything from ignore it to ban all involved from ALL games I host permanently.
[...]
But do NOT cross me just to get at someone or I'll GIVE you something to get angry about.
So... we need to find out who we're going to lynch. I will request here that everyone posts a list of their opinions on everyone else. It's time to do some deep thinking and figure out what's really happening.
Ranked from most to least scummy:
Org - Has been really useless, especially today. Given to bandwagoning. This may just be the way he plays, but I feel like he's really not engaging himself.
Free Beer - Foaming-at-the-mouth something. I feel like a lot of his allegations had holes in them (though I recognize that I may have been absolutely incomprehensible), and just because he's being ridiculously aggressive does not mean he's town.
[Diakron/Diakron's replacement] - Bandwagoning D1, currently gone. Don't feel safe lynching him before he's replaced, but would not be surprised if he were scum.
Leafsnail - Scumhunting on the side, keeping out of the fight in the middle. Seems fairly okay to me, though I feel like he needs to show up and talk more.
ToonyMan - I feel like if he were scum, he'd shaft me or go after Org/Diakron instead of going for the difficult lynch (Free Beer). As such, unless he does something really weird, he seems like he's town.
Pandarsenic - Feels town to me. I don't think he would have unvoted if he were scum.
So... we need to find out who we're going to lynch. I will request here that everyone posts a list of their opinions on everyone else. It's time to do some deep thinking and figure out what's really happening.
I'll post mine most to least likely scum too.
Free Beer - Insanely linear on a lynch of Vector (and I). He doesn't care for anyone's opinion and just wants to see Vector gone. Doesn't matter what you say, like he said. :-P
Org - Alright, so he's trying to be helpful....where? I see no helpful, I see scum going along with Free Beer saying nothing.
Diakron/Diakron Replacement - Same thing as Org really. Not so much on the following though.
Pandarsenic - Not speaking much, this will matter later on, I'll keep that in mind.
Leafsnail - I can't think of anything not worthy he has said without looking back. I should put him at the same level as Pandarsenic.
Vector - It would be CRAZY for Free Beer to be bussing his partner so early. It could happen, but I don't think Vector is scum AT ALL. I don't freakin' care what you say Free Beer. I'm defending someone who I think is being bashed by SCUM.
What so I be helpful and voted for doing so? I don't think anybody else even bothered to list their suspicions.
Learn to read. I made a big post.What so I be helpful and voted for doing so? I don't think anybody else even bothered to list their suspicions.
Free Beer did. I'm waiting on everyone else.
Like I said, I really appreciate it IRL.
I will again request a Day Extension, and suggest that you do the same. I don't want to lynch you or treat you poorly, but I can believe that you could be using me as a tool.
So: Leafsnail, Pandarsenic, Webadict, and Org, please detail your suspicions in full. We aren't going to win this game by sitting around at watching the Big Fight in the middle of the ring. I believe that at least one of you is scum, and I intend to find out which.
Yes. Day Extension please. More time is always good.I also think you're scum. Still want to celebrate?
FAKE-EDIT:
You think Vector is town too? YEAHHHHHHHH.
Learn to read. I made a big post.
Webadict, if he is scum I hope you will not object to being lynched.Not only is that statement the stupidest statement I've ever seen, but it's totally contradictory.
To give a more specific question, I'm looking for a (short) overview of your interpretations of Pandarsenic, Org, and Free Beer. I would add myself to the list, but I think you've already covered that.Don't wanna. Lots of extra work for little reason. If I want to read a list of crap, I'll make one myself. Obviously if I haven't pointed you out, you mean nothing to be. So for me to go back and look at EVERYONE just for a stupid list is dumb. No one will listen to me anyhow. Except the scum.
Webadict, if he is scum I hope you will not object to being lynched.
Don't wanna. Lots of extra work for little reason. If I want to read a list of crap, I'll make one myself. Obviously if I haven't pointed you out, you mean nothing to be. So for me to go back and look at EVERYONE just for a stupid list is dumb. No one will listen to me anyhow. Except the scum.
Consistent explanation... consistent explanation... how about "VT who communicates badly." Oh, wait. Haha. You think that's a lie. You won't believe me. IT'S THE TRUTH, YOU MORON. I'M NOT SCUM HIDING BEHIND LIES AND EXCUSES, I AM TOWN WHO HAPPENS TO FOLLOW A DIFFERENT THOUGHT PROCESS THAN YOU DO. PLEASE STOP BEING AN ASSHOLE. Perhaps you may think the story is too outlandish, that I am in fact Ye Standarde Humann who is just a moron-scum and speaks like a fool and makes a thousand slips. I am trying to tell you the truth, and you are not believing me. I am not trying to make excuses, I am trying to tell you the situation. I am not saying "Don't lynch me because I have teh communication problems and am like someone you need to feel sorry for."
So, maybe I'm positively crazy right here, but I feel like we can see a reason for the change--that is, the threatened bannings for people who don't play the damned game.
Frankly, I don't have much of a clue as to what's going on right now... but Pandarsenic, I think it's quite odd that you're trying to off Org for being helpful. He isn't helpful as scum, he isn't helpful as town, he isn't helpful no matter what role or alignment he has.
I think this is clearly an agenda shift. The question is, why don't you?
Further, ToonyMan: what has happened to all the crazy? You're being quite subdued.
And even more: Free Beer, O scummish fiend, why are you looking for pairs and pulling suspicion off of Org? Further, why vote me first over ToonyMan? I can't see the rationale behind the attack, which makes me worried. Where there is no rationale, there is scum trying to cook up excuses to vote a given person.
You, sir, are next.
Seriously.. this is one of the most active mafias currently running ;D
Deadline: midnight, EST
There are about 12 hours left until the end of the day.
day+extra accepted.Finger jammed in a door?
Deadline: Thursday, 13th 11am EST
Next extension will be considered after tomorrow's activity.
All past marks of 'hours left' and other mistakes shall be excused by the host having a VERY poor quality week so far.
Webadict, I'm tempted to just go along with you on Leafsnail, but I feel as though this is some form of trap to see who puts a third vote.Psh, when people vote doesn't mean a whole lot to me anymore.
...
Bleh. I requested day extension for a reason. I'm going to sleep on this again. Please don't be mad if I forget to check in while at a reasonable level of awareness again.
Webadict, simply lampshading the fact that your buddying with Vector doesn't mean that it's ok. Your biggest tell on me is that I supposedly buddied with TM and FB - so why can everyone else do it, including you? Simply saying that you think someone is likely town is not necessarily buddying. Anyway, listing my own suspicions:
Webadict, simply lampshading the fact that your buddying with Vector doesn't mean that it's ok. Your biggest tell on me is that I supposedly buddied with TM and FB - so why can everyone else do it, including you? Simply saying that you think someone is likely town is not necessarily buddying. Anyway, listing my own suspicions:
You're deflecting. I asked you to convince us that you aren't scum.
What am I meant to say, other than I've been voicing my opinions on who's scum and trying to play the game? I mean, there isn't much else anyone can do to prove their innocence - after all, a town player needs to scumhunt. It's virtually impossible to prove innocence if you're simply asked to, and any other behavior is ignored.
Leafsnail:
Overreaction is attempting to defend yourself from a simple comment on your behavior.
Currently, you're dodging my question. Are you going to even going to try convince us you aren't scum or not?
ToonyMan:
I presented evidence against Vector already. The burden of proof lies with him. As for Leafsnail, I'm asking him to come up with an argument. If I was asked to come up with an argument for why I'm not scum, I could. Why can't I ask the same of Leafsnail?
If you're just going to say "HE'S SCUM, IGNORE HIM" to anything I say, then defending my actions would also be irrelevant. Besides, why have you gone off Vector? I suppose you think, with webadict on me, that I'll be an easier lynch today?
I believe I have successfully gotten under Vector's skin. We have seen two sides to Vector thus far. I'll call them "Real Vector" and "Fake Vector." This is because I conjecture that Real Vector expresses what Vector is really thinking, while Fake Vector has a protective shell that prevents people from getting a good read on him.
[...]
Both Vectors' actions are extremely scummy. I think the most productive way forward would be to continue to interrogate Real Vector.
Pandarsenic - What do you mean, "some kind of trap"? I understand that webadict might be aiming to identify a bandwagoner, but surely posting that is just as bad as bandwagonning (if not worse - after all, you stated that you're not voting the way you want to out of defence).
Also, Free Beer...answer me this. Why are you following Webadict's words?
Is it a coincidence you're scum?This is hilarious.
Is it a coincidence you're scum?
As per request:
Current count
Free Beer[1]: Toonyman
Vector[2]: Org, Pandarsenic
Toonyman[3]: Leafsnail, Vector, Free Beer
Leafsnail[1]: webadict,
Deadline: Thursday, 13th 11am EST
Note Voting: None
To ToonyMan:You seem like Town to me, and Toony seems like Scum.Is it a coincidence you're scum?
That's a loaded question, and I won't answer it. I'm not scum.
Also, I find it interesting that you haven't answered any of my accusations. Not now, and not throughout the entire day.
To Org:
Why are you defending me?
To dakarian:As per request:
Current count
Free Beer[1]: Toonyman
Vector[2]: Org, Pandarsenic
Toonyman[3]: Leafsnail, Vector, Free Beer
Leafsnail[1]: webadict,
Deadline: Thursday, 13th 11am EST
Note Voting: None
Pandarsenic unvoted. It was in green.
FoS Org for naming me as town and for defending me.I SAID I THOUGHT YOU WERE TOWN. YOU SEEM LIKE TOWN.
FoS Org for naming me as town and for defending me.I SAID I THOUGHT YOU WERE TOWN. YOU SEEM LIKE TOWN.
FoS Org for naming me as town and for defending me.I SAID I THOUGHT YOU WERE TOWN. YOU SEEM LIKE TOWN.
YOU ARE BUDDYING.
FoS Org for naming me as town and for defending me.I SAID I THOUGHT YOU WERE TOWN. YOU SEEM LIKE TOWN.
YOU ARE BUDDYING.
YOU ARE TRIGGER-HAPPY AND WILL NOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS IN ANY REASONABLE WAY.
WOULD IT BE BETTER IF WE SAID "EVERYONE IS SCUM," THOUGH IT WOULD BE FALLACIOUS?
ToonyMan, you're spewing BS. Check back in the thread. I posted a nice big summary of my accusations against you several pages back. I've added another to the list when I voted you.
BS is anti-town. If you are town, then cut it out and get serious. Otherwise, prepare to die.
ToonyMan:
I presented evidence against Vector already. The burden of proof lies with him. As for Leafsnail, I'm asking him to come up with an argument. If I was asked to come up with an argument for why I'm not scum, I could. Why can't I ask the same of Leafsnail?
I see no accusations scum bucket. Show them.
I don't know who you're addressing here, since you're talking to a "scum bucket" that only you seem to know about. But since you haven't addressed any of my accusations, I'll go ahead and post mine.Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby....Vector. It's Vector and ToonyMan.
1. The two haven't actually directly addressed each other even once in this thread.
2. They are now coordinated in their efforts to get Org lynched (presumably since ExKirby will be an easy lynch on D2).
3. Thus, they must be communicating privately.
4. Therefore, they are both scum.ToonyMan breaks his rare silence to defend ExKirby's attack on Org even as he FoS's ExKirby:ToonyMan doesn't post for the rest of the night - possibly because he thinks he's dead N2 and is conversing with his partner on how to respond. End N1.ToonyMan and Vector again coordinate their actions, this time converging on me. It bears mentioning that Vector produced a half-hearted attack on ToonyMan in hopes of dissociating himself:Probably most damning is the fact that they DK'd Apostolic - they obviously did so in hopes of drawing suspicion toward me. The scum clearly want me dead, because I have them pegged. Classic scum technique, and it completely gives both of them away.
Your only response to ANY of these is to switch your vote to me. It kind of reminds me of my response to you voting me back in Vote Mafia 3 (you know, back when I was scum). You aren't defending yourself, you're lurking, and you're being unhelpful. Typical Org play, which is very much atypical for you.
Why are you voting Vector then?!
Ok, fair enough. Seems like a good summary. Unvote.
On the other hand, ToonyMan, you've been very, very quiet. Even as you were accused, you only seemed to respond half heartedly. Also, as Free Beer has been attacking Vector, you have said nothing. Where's your normal aggressive play? Why are you trying to avoid detection?
What so I be helpful and voted for doing so? I don't think anybody else even bothered to list their suspicions.
Yeah, Webadict likes to choose 2 or so people and say they're scum. It's fun to say the least.
Also, nice job saying Vector is scum and he must die or else and then going on to Leafsnail after Webadict said he was suspicious of him.
I'll just FoH that even though I'm already voting you for being scum.
ToonyMan voted me in the beginning of the Night. His primary motive in doing so appeared to have been the fact that I was voting for Vector instead of him. When I switched to Leafsnail, his argument became not valid. His response? Apparently he wanted to keep voting me because I was voting for Leafsnail instead of him. I think ToonyMan is trying to tell us something. And I think it's that he is scum.
What so I be helpful and voted for doing so? I don't think anybody else even bothered to list their suspicions.
Wait, alright. So all I can find is that whole Vector defending thing.He can't be scum if you are...
You are scum Free Beer. Vector is town.
Yeah, do the math.
I was being bitter about the Webadict thing...that's what I do!Nay. You're random about it.
What so I be helpful and voted for doing so? I don't think anybody else even bothered to list their suspicions.
... This is incensed?
Oh noes! I being attacked by all sides!
Must.........pull..........through........
Free Beer, I ask again. Why did you move on to Vector after such confidence in his scumitude?
Practically the entire town is voting me at this point. I think I have the right to pressure you to show up. What, you want me to not vote at all?
Oh, or I could vote ToonyMan... who I don't really think is scum.
Nope. Please be constructive. Then I will switch to Pandarsenic.
There's only two people on me, anyway >_> It's not like I'm really close to being lynched or pulling this as some sort of gambit. Mostly, I'm pissed off at Free Beer and would like to give the town a chance to actually find some scum, rather than getting themselves embroiled in my stupid behavior.
Again with the ignoring!
Again with the ignoring!
That's my line!
That didn't sound scummish at all.Again with the deflections!
That one vote is obviously some sort of threshold, below which I'm not going to be able to get Vector to lose his composure and start talking. Interrogating Vector at this point is useless.
It doesn't help that four people now currently think Vector is town. I'm blind to the possibility that I was wrong, you know.
Well, while some people crack under pressure, it would seem that some people crack right in the midst of a rabid attack. Unvote, vote Free Beer.He does appear to be overly aggressive, but I don't know if Free Beer would pull that stunt as mafia.
What the heck are you doing? The calm, analytical Free Beer of Night 1 appears to have gone, and you are now throwing accusations round at random. ANYONE who thinks ANYONE else is town is automatically scum, aren't they? It's either "Defending" or "Buddying". And why the heck did you do this thing of switching off me AGAIN? What? Do you think I'll be an easy lynch later on, while ToonyMan is more likely to get lynched today? If I'm scum, and you still seem to think I am, why are you voting for the easier target rather than me?
Basically, you seem to just be conditioning people to be lynched later. See BM2, with Pandarsenic's attacking of people, only to pull away if they seemed like an easy lynch for the next day. After all, webadict thinks I'm scum, so you think I'm doomed to be lynched at some point, right? So why attack a dead man today when you can kill someone else today and get me tomorrow?
Hey. D:<
I'm here and pointing out that Free Beer is being a goddamn spaz. Doesn't that count for something?
Oh, and Org.Yeah okay. Let me read the THREE PAGES BACK I JUST READS AGAIN.
Please answer those questions. I reposted them for you, as you asked, and you didn't answer them. This will now be the third time.
I just did the ones were he voted, unvoted, or FoS someone.Thats like the pot calling the kettle black.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, a nice big fat FoS on Pandarsenic and Org for like not being here. And when they are, doing nothing really.
Hey. D:<
I'm here and pointing out that Free Beer is being a goddamn spaz. Doesn't that count for something?
It counts for something, but I kind of feel like you and Org are not exactly playing. This may be normal for Org, but it isn't really normal for you...
I mean, as far as I can tell we've got three potential scum up on the table and you're not really chipping in on your thoughts. You're pointing out Free Beer writing a typo, but you aren't doing much but making little nudges.
Unvote. Pandarsenic, do you think ToonyMan is scum? What about Leafsnail? This is not a question to see if you're following Webadict, by the way. I want your thoughts and reasoning.
As far as Free Beer goes, I think we could be on the right path... but I don't want to be too hasty in my judgments. Frankly, I think my reasoning is being clouded by his pissing me off.
That one vote is obviously some sort of threshold, below which I'm not going to be able to get Vector to lose his composure and start talking. Interrogating Vector at this point is useless.
What the hell is this, Free Beer?
That really doesnt explain it.
Show up what?
What am I, deep-striking?
I'm voting you because I would like you to appear and generate posts with actual content. You are not doing this. You are jumping on a bandwagon and following Free Beer blindly. Have anything to say about my arguments? Have anything to say about other scum? Have any questions for me?
Essentially, are you actually processing things, or are you just following Free Beer?So... we need to find out who we're going to lynch. I will request here that everyone posts a list of their opinions on everyone else. It's time to do some deep thinking and figure out what's really happening.
Toony: Kind of? I'm still not certain how to account for the lack of a Toony Tunnel; earlier I disregarded it as him learning it isn't always (isn't often) useful, but it might mean he didn't want as much attention this time. Anyone with better memory, can you remind me whether he still Toony Tunnels if he's scum? Of course, I remain unconvinced either way, UNLESS he stops tunneling any time he's scum.
Leafsnail: If I thought he was scum, I'd have voted for him; if he flips scum, sure, in hindsight I'll look back on him and see all the scumtells in their proper light, but I just can't see it as I am now.
Free Beer, by contrast...That one vote is obviously some sort of threshold, below which I'm not going to be able to get Vector to lose his composure and start talking. Interrogating Vector at this point is useless.
What the hell is this, Free Beer?
Just for reference, the typo isn't what made me realize Free Beer was scum - it was his desperate grasping at reasons to bounce his vote around, made obvious by the bullshit he's spewing in this quote.
I thought Free Beer's recklessness/aggression was a townie-ish-tell but I'm realizing now, it's not - he's imitating the Toony Tunnel to try to LOOK like hard-to-read town. And he gave himself away with his "vote threshold" tripe.
ToonyMan, you're spewing BS. Check back in the thread. I posted a nice big summary of my accusations against you several pages back. I've added another to the list when I voted you.
BS is anti-town. If you are town, then cut it out and get serious. Otherwise, prepare to die.
What the hell is this, Free Beer?
What the heck are you doing? The calm, analytical Free Beer of Night 1 appears to have gone, and you are now throwing accusations round at random. ANYONE who thinks ANYONE else is town is automatically scum, aren't they? It's either "Defending" or "Buddying". And why the heck did you do this thing of switching off me AGAIN? What? Do you think I'll be an easy lynch later on, while ToonyMan is more likely to get lynched today? If I'm scum, and you still seem to think I am, why are you voting for the easier target rather than me?
Basically, you seem to just be conditioning people to be lynched later. See BM2, with Pandarsenic's attacking of people, only to pull away if they seemed like an easy lynch for the next day.
After all, webadict thinks I'm scum, so you think I'm doomed to be lynched at some point, right? So why attack a dead man today when you can kill someone else today and get me tomorrow?
It was my first WOT, I kinda summarized it too much. Although, putting pressure on someone by voting them and immediately switching isn't putting pressure, more of like a nudge to move them in a direction.
[...]I will Unvote and vote Leafsnail.
So, Leafsnail. Convince us you aren't scum. Go ahead.
[...]But I'm more interested in ToonyMan, so I'll stop hitting Leafsnail for now. Unvote.
ToonyMan[...]
MOD: I vote for a Day Shortening, to Midnight EST.
I was talking about the Pandarsenic vote.
Unvote. Vote Pandarsenic.
Leafsnail, why did you defend Pandarsenic when I voted him?
MOD: I vote for a Day Shortening, to Midnight EST.
Why?
Huh. Free Beer has made one valid point: nobody is looking at webadict, which is... not good.I know. I've been sitting here in this corner and nobody has been noticing. Weird, huh? You'd think somebody would say something, but you're all so busy being dumb.
I honestly think Standard Webadict would not put up with our almost lynching Free Beer if he thought Free Beer were town.
Holy shit.Psh. I'm still on the fence with him. I believe him to be town, but only to a certain extent. Sure, I can yell at you guys to stop bickering, but then can I really read what you think if I'm standing there watching over you?I honestly think Standard Webadict would not put up with our almost lynching Free Beer if he thought Free Beer were town.
This.
If he thought Free Beer was town, he'd be screaming at us to unvote. If he thought Free Beer was scum, he'd vote with us. I he wasn't sure, he'd interrogate him.
Webadict, care to refute?
Psh. I'm still on the fence with him. I believe him to be town, but only to a certain extent. Sure, I can yell at you guys to stop bickering, but then can I really read what you think if I'm standing there watching over you?
Nah. I'm just looking at what you're saying. I'm gonna play like this for now. Mostly because it's easy when you're not feeling very argumentative right now (Sometimes you're just all yelled out.) Plus, I like to be random, in case you find that when I play as scum, I'm not acting myself. I act how I want to act.
So, yeah. I've told you why I think Leafsnail is scum. You don't wanna listen, that's cool. More death for all the town and what-not. We could try not being morons, too.
Lynch me if I'm wrong. This is a sufficiently radical playstyle change that I'm willing to call bull.Well, that's where you're wrong. And the lynching you if you're wrong thing doesn't really help town, now does it?
See, you misunderstand. I meant that third or fourth votes (The typical scumtells, mind you) don't mean anything. Bandwagoning is slightly different.Psh. I'm still on the fence with him. I believe him to be town, but only to a certain extent. Sure, I can yell at you guys to stop bickering, but then can I really read what you think if I'm standing there watching over you?
Nah. I'm just looking at what you're saying. I'm gonna play like this for now. Mostly because it's easy when you're not feeling very argumentative right now (Sometimes you're just all yelled out.) Plus, I like to be random, in case you find that when I play as scum, I'm not acting myself. I act how I want to act.
So, yeah. I've told you why I think Leafsnail is scum. You don't wanna listen, that's cool. More death for all the town and what-not. We could try not being morons, too.
I don't buy this crap about your sudden play-style revolution, and I don't buy your deflection to Pandarsenic, either. You recently said that vote-times didn't matter... and yet here you are, bringing it up.
Contradiction.
Lie.
Down you go.
Also, your continued little buddying maneuver with me is not cool, Webadict. There's being nice to someone, and then there's trying to take advantage. If they try to lynch me again tomorrow, I can handle it.I ain't buddying. I'm telling everyone you're town. Some of us like to do that. But I'm sorry if you're too busy looking at your feet to notice things. Some of us think that the town knowing things is important. Don't you?
Geez, it's like trying to talk to the stupidest people alive. Or perhaps person.
Demeaning you will make you think though.Geez, it's like trying to talk to the stupidest people alive. Or perhaps person.
Demeaning me isn't going to make me go away.
That said, Leafsnail. I want to know where you've disappeared to, and why you're not being helpful.
Same thing goes for Org, dammit.
Demeaning you will make you think though.
Org was an easy lynch - but probably the safest of the night kills; he hadn't drawn serious attention from anyone and had made no serious accusations.
The scum is scared.
EBWOP: For now, I'm going to ask this...What's it matter to you? Weren't you voting for me last time? I thought you thought I was scum. Huh, weird.
Leafsnail, what do you think of Webadict's previous suspicions of you?
Webadict, are you still suspicious of Leafsnail or do you have someone else in mind?
I ain't stayin' nowhere, ya see. Why don't you friggin' look to check that you're a moron and you guys tied the lynch yesterday like two stupid screw-ups. At least if you screw up, make sure you stop repeatedly doing so and No Lynch. I wouldn't've even minded if you had lynched Free Beer, but no. You make it so we have to No Lynch again, like an imbecile. That means we've got lots of nowhere to go and lots of nothing to bring with us.Org was an easy lynch - but probably the safest of the night kills; he hadn't drawn serious attention from anyone and had made no serious accusations.
The scum is scared.
So, I don't know if I'd go with scared. I think he's going with the "eliminate the one who's fighting least" approach. The scum is trying to spread chaos.
Anyway, Webadict. Can you tell us why you're staying back so much, rather than playing the bloody game?
Wait, what?
No lynching? I've never seen this before.
Leafsnail, what do you think of Webadict's previous suspicions of you?Pretty much the same thing I thought of them yesterday, I guess. Not built on much and probably an attempt to lure other people out. I suppose that, this being even numbers, it's better to unvote and No Lynch.
Wait, what?
No lynching? I've never seen this before.
.... Are you being facetious?
Wait, what?
No lynching? I've never seen this before.
.... Are you being facetious?
I don't even know what that means.
Web, no matter how weirdly you may be playing, lynching Org seems too cautious for you. I think if you were scum, you'd be actively trying to manipulate our opinions of each other by killing an opinionated person at night.But wouldn't the fact that I do that mean that I might not do that? I change constantly, so because I might do something like that is likely a reason I wouldn't do it.
I think scum is trying to avoid letting us know anything about them by their NK and that's why they chose to kill Org - which is why I'm giving a little more credence to your suspicion of Leafsnail now.
But I suppose No Lynch is, indeed, what we must do, since we've hit mylo....
Web, no matter how weirdly you may be playing, lynching Org seems too cautious for you. I think if you were scum, you'd be actively trying to manipulate our opinions of each other by killing an opinionated person at night.But wouldn't the fact that I do that mean that I might not do that? I change constantly, so because I might do something like that is likely a reason I wouldn't do it.
I think scum is trying to avoid letting us know anything about them by their NK and that's why they chose to kill Org - which is why I'm giving a little more credence to your suspicion of Leafsnail now.
But I suppose No Lynch is, indeed, what we must do, since we've hit mylo....
... So, by bringing up the fact that Pandarsenic is bringing up WIFOM means I'm WIFOMing, does it?Web, no matter how weirdly you may be playing, lynching Org seems too cautious for you. I think if you were scum, you'd be actively trying to manipulate our opinions of each other by killing an opinionated person at night.But wouldn't the fact that I do that mean that I might not do that? I change constantly, so because I might do something like that is likely a reason I wouldn't do it.
I think scum is trying to avoid letting us know anything about them by their NK and that's why they chose to kill Org - which is why I'm giving a little more credence to your suspicion of Leafsnail now.
But I suppose No Lynch is, indeed, what we must do, since we've hit mylo....
... WIFOM. Please stop being an ass.
... So, by bringing up the fact that Pandarsenic is bringing up WIFOM means I'm WIFOMing, does it?Web, no matter how weirdly you may be playing, lynching Org seems too cautious for you. I think if you were scum, you'd be actively trying to manipulate our opinions of each other by killing an opinionated person at night.But wouldn't the fact that I do that mean that I might not do that? I change constantly, so because I might do something like that is likely a reason I wouldn't do it.
I think scum is trying to avoid letting us know anything about them by their NK and that's why they chose to kill Org - which is why I'm giving a little more credence to your suspicion of Leafsnail now.
But I suppose No Lynch is, indeed, what we must do, since we've hit mylo....
... WIFOM. Please stop being an ass.
WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW. Please, insist on being a moron some more. Learn to read context, instead of solely content. Otherwise, you can stop talking, because that last post was a terrible way to show how ignorant you are. A better way to do it would involve various racist remarks and telling us why the earth is the center of the universe.
Please, continue. I want to see how this one works. Answer that question.
To ToonyMan and Pandarsenic: Roleclaim. NOW.Possibly a bit redundant, since I've claimed Cop and webadict was the doc. They'll claim VT.
Unfortunate. I thought this was going to be interesting.
I concur with Leafsnail. ToonyMan and Pandarsenic are lying. My vote remains on Pandarsenic.
Weird, isn't it? Both Pandar and Toony accuse me outright of lying and seem reluctant to accuse each other. How come?
Because I don't buy cop claims at Lylo, as a matter of course; the addition of you going by only Town results isn't helping.
I can certainly believe a team of you and Toony.
I would probably say any 2 of Leafsnail, ToonyMan, and Free Beer are the Mafia..
This is what I think right now,
Free Beer/Leafsnail
or
Free Beer/Pandarsenic
Free Beer is scum either way and I am almost certain of his scumitude.
A question for you, ToonyMan:
If you are really town, WHY DO YOU THINK THE SCUM LEFT US BOTH ALIVE???
They liked to kill small talkers until Webadict.
Stop pairing me with Pandarsenic!
Also, I highly doubt Vector is scum after his reactions from Free Beer.A question for you, ToonyMan:
If you are really town, WHY DO YOU THINK THE SCUM LEFT US BOTH ALIVE???
What, you mean you and Leafsnail or Pandarsenic? The scum killed Org and Aliphioc (or whatever). I don't know. They liked to kill small talkers until Webadict.
I have a question for you!
Why do you think the scum left you alive?!
And I call bullshit on Leafsnail, because quite simply, I know myself to be town, so either one of the people he scanned is a Godfather, or as I believe, he's claiming Cop at Lylo so we execute the one mislynch that leads us to failure.
To ToonyMan:
You're online. You've been online for more than an hour. I know you have viewed this thread and seen my accusation from several hours ago. And you have decided to remain silent. I hope you realize how damning this is?
To ToonyMan:
You're online. You've been online for more than an hour. I know you have viewed this thread and seen my accusation from several hours ago. And you have decided to remain silent. I hope you realize how damning this is?
Bring thou questions forth!
Also, everyone seems dead set on a ToonyMan/Pandarsenic lynch. Is that what you want? For town to lose?! Heh.
Stop pairing me with Pandarsenic!
Also, I highly doubt Vector is scum after his reactions from Free Beer.A question for you, ToonyMan:
If you are really town, WHY DO YOU THINK THE SCUM LEFT US BOTH ALIVE???
What, you mean you and Leafsnail or Pandarsenic? The scum killed Org and Aliphioc (or whatever). I don't know. They liked to kill small talkers until Webadict.
I have a question for you!
Why do you think the scum left you alive?!
I'll tell you why the scum left me alive, ToonyMan. It's for two reasons, really:
1. I was on to them on Day One. My first round of accusations was against Pandarsenic and Leafsnail. My second round of accusations was against Vector and ToonyMan. NKing me would have implicated both of them.
2. On Day Two, it seemed likely that they could push a Free Beer lynch, and they were more preoccupied with trying to find the Cop.
If you're town, then the fact that you are still alive right now is testament to the fact that I am town- the scum left you alive because your obsession with voting for me guarantees a town loss at LyLo. If I were scum, I'd have NK'd you D2 and reinforced my previous claim of "the scum are out to get me."
It does not escape notice that you completely ignored the possibility that I meant you and me when I said "both of us." It was the only possible way to interpret the sentence - I had addressed you, and did not mention anyone else. This is probably since I prefixed the question with "If you are really town," and since you knew you were scum the idea didn't register.
And if you're scum, then I also know Pandarsenic is scum. This is because of your behavior N2: When I went after Vector, you accused me of being scum on grounds that I went after Vector. When I went after Leafsnail, you accused me of being scum on grounds that I went after Leafsnail. When I went after you, you accused me of being scum on grounds that I didn't go after Pandarsenic. You told us everything, right then and there.
And I call bullshit on Leafsnail, because quite simply, I know myself to be town, so either one of the people he scanned is a Godfather, or as I believe, he's claiming Cop at Lylo so we execute the one mislynch that leads us to failure.
1. Your sentence structure tells me you're nervous.
2. I call bullshit on you. If you're really sure about ToonyMan, why aren't you willing to go along with us and get him lynched? We'd be down a scum that way, at the very least. As it is, you're tangoing around, trying to get the person who may or may not be scum lynched.
You're scum, dude. Down you go.
Folks, let's do this thing. ToonyMan goes today, Pandarsenic tomorrow.
1. You're full of shit.
2. Bring it. ToonyMan.
1. You're full of shit.
2. Bring it. ToonyMan.
Normally you don't talk in run-ons... and now you're overcompensating.
Let's go. If we lose this game, at least we'll lose gloriously.
I don't see any question marks Free Beer.
This isn't Jeopardy. I don't have to phrase anything in the form of a question.
Are you insulting me because you're mean inside?
:[
Vote for day-shortening. Toony has progressed to the point of obvscum, probably because they can't get me lynched today.
The scum would be wise to keep you alive I guess, since I keep going after you. They wouldn't kill me because I am helping them lynch a townie, right? That would make sense.
Unvote. Vote Pandarsenic.
Pandarsenic, if Leafsnail is scum, who would be his scum partner? Sorry if you already said, I'ma not focusing.
FAKE-EDIT:
Well, I guess I'm being lynched? Alright. Fine. MOD: Make me break the fourth wall in the flavor text.
sudden
That's where is disagree with you, Vector. ToonyMan is not obvious at all. In fact, Pandarsenic is significantly more obvious than ToonyMan. Look at his behavior N3 and tell me it isn't scummy. I dare you.
And... I hardly see anything.
That good enough, or should I skirt the rules and risk the entire town losing by modkills?
Also, I don't really see why you're trusting Leafsnail so readily. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. But you're talking about Leafsnail like you know he's town... which I don't trust.
This is about Leafsnail going "Hey, I'm a cop!! Here are my marks" and you going "Hey, I concur. We're killing them now."
Sure, maybe you're not using Leafsnail's data at all. But I'll ask you this: Why are you so adamant about lynching Pandarsenic today? If you're so sure about both of them, why not lynch ToonyMan?
Tonight I'll investigate Pandar. Pandarsenic has very unhelpfully thrown WIFOM absolutely fucking everywhere, which I suppose has the side effect that, whoever is scum, I'm now unlikely to die tonight. This should mean that I at least will know whether there is a Godfather or not.
What do you guys think?
To Pandarsenic:
That's an awfully detailed theory you have regarding Leafsnail. What evidence do you have of ToonyMan's scumminess? How do you know it's not me or Vector?
To the contrary, I'm saying I won't just bandwagon with web without catching up on what I've been missing. :V
Bleh. I requested day extension for a reason. I'm going to sleep on this again. Please don't be mad if I forget to check in while at a reasonable level of awareness again.
We'll see properly if you're scum once I'm done with classes (around 4) and can actually catch up....
To Leafsnail:I did indeed, but as Beginner's Mafia 3 drew to a close and webadict subbed into this game, I thought about the horrific consequences of a scum webadict. If he were scum, we'd probably never be able to lynch him, and I thought that an investigation on him would allow me to claim and at least take a valuable scumteam member down with me. When he returned town, I went back to you, my biggest suspicion at the time.
Please explain why webadict had a higher priority than me on your scan list, given that you thought I was scum.
Leafsnail: Good at Musical ChairsWhat?
Is it a coincidence you're scum?This is hilarious.
Toony, I concur. After those undeniable reasons, and unretractable quotes of bindingnesses, I really think Free Beer is scum.
Unless they are scum buddies and this is like what Toony and I did in vote mafia...
Web, you need another Vote Mafia. :I
Is it a coincidence you're scum?This is hilarious.
Toony, I concur. After those undeniable reasons, and unretractable quotes of bindingnesses, I really think Free Beer is scum.
Unless they are scum buddies and this is like what Toony and I did in vote mafia...
Web, you need another Vote Mafia. :I
Org breaks his silence to defend me. When confronted about it, all he could say is that he thought I was town. What evidence do you think he had? Why was it so important to him to defend me?
Is it a coincidence you're scum?This is hilarious.
Toony, I concur. After those undeniable reasons, and unretractable quotes of bindingnesses, I really think Free Beer is scum.
Unless they are scum buddies and this is like what Toony and I did in vote mafia...
Web, you need another Vote Mafia. :I
Org breaks his silence to defend me. When confronted about it, all he could say is that he thought I was town. What evidence do you think he had? Why was it so important to him to defend me?
Yes. You attack me, and I bring you Org. Org defended me as town and he was DK'd for it. I'm going to advance the theory that Org was DK'd because the scum thought he was a power role - because he defended me.
If you have an objection, then state it.
Point taken.
New line of reasoning: Why am I NOT going for Vector right now? I've stated repeatedly that Vector is obviously the scummiest of us all. I've also stated that if Vector is scum, then he must have gotten EXTREMELY LUCKY.
Point taken.
New line of reasoning: Why am I NOT going for Vector right now? I've stated repeatedly that Vector is obviously the scummiest of us all. I've also stated that if Vector is scum, then he must have gotten EXTREMELY LUCKY.
Because either you are town, and you think Pandarsenic is the actual scum... or you're scum, and you think I'm a spineless tool you can manipulate into killing Pandarsenic.
This is scummy, Free Beer. Threatening to attack me because I won't back off just makes you look scared.
Plus, if Vector is the scummiest of us all, why is it that pretty much everyone (except your sainted Org, who died too quick) seems to have put me down as town? It's just you who is hanging onto me like a dog.
Point taken.
New line of reasoning: Why am I NOT going for Vector right now? I've stated repeatedly that Vector is obviously the scummiest of us all. I've also stated that if Vector is scum, then he must have gotten EXTREMELY LUCKY.
Because either you are town, and you think Pandarsenic is the actual scum... or you're scum, and you think I'm a spineless tool you can manipulate into killing Pandarsenic.
This is scummy, Free Beer. Threatening to attack me because I won't back off just makes you look scared.
Plus, if Vector is the scummiest of us all, why is it that pretty much everyone (except your sainted Org, who died too quick) seems to have put me down as town? It's just you who is hanging onto me like a dog.
I'm not scared. I'm beating around the bush. And you're not getting it because you're a tool.
I unvoted you N2. My stated reasoning at the time was that I wasn't going to get any information out of you. However, I never voted you again. This is because I had evidence to suggest you were either town, or obvscum who got EXTREMELY LUCKY.
I've been capitalizing EXTREMELY LUCKY for a reason, by the way.
It doesn't explain your behavior N1. It doesn't explain your behavior RE ToonyMan. It doesn't explain why you were passive until I called you out on it. It doesn't explain why you're unrepentant about buddying. It doesn't explain why you mis-quoted your role PM. Shall i continue?
I read your WoT.
I think Pandarsenic is lazy town. I think he's exhausted, and I think that if he were scum and kept Leafsnail alive--even if Leafsnail got a scum reading--he could have just offed you and coerced me into attacking Leafsnail with him.
You're the one who really stands to gain from Leafsnail dying.
From how many games will I be banned for quoting my role PM?Don't you dare fucking do that. >:[
I'm tempted to vote you for trying to blackmail us out of voting you.
We'll see properly if you're scum once I'm done with classes (around 4) and can actually catch up....
And, as an afterthought: There's the fact that he looked at an alternate reading as a response to Leafsnail's roleclaim. Would anyone about to get shafted do something else?
All of the rest of my evidence is against Pandarsenic. Wanna hear it?
Let's start with how he bandwagoned: Every vote he made was second or more. Really, that's all the evidence I had on him prior to N2.
Then there's the the big wall of text I posted N4, which nobody actually read.
Finally, there's the explanation for killing Leafsnail: He knew you and I were polarized, and so the fact that we'd butt heads again was inevitable. He was going for a cross-vote. His behavior N5 has only been to encourage this behavior.
Oh, and as an afterthought, there's the fact that he spread WIFOM everywhere as a response to Leafsnail's roleclaim. Would a Townie really do that?
Because I'm a procrastinator and research/paper-writing is boring, mainly.I'd rather check this than write a paper, but I can't commit to a lot of analysis because then I begin to feel guilty. When town was about to suicide was the only point where I started the SERIOUS PROCRASTINATION (which I still am doing, even though I shouldn't).
There are unresolved issues. I don't think the day should end early. I think we need to talk these out.
Unvote. I also think we should lynch Pandarsenic first.
ONE OF US stands to gain from Leafsnail dying. Because Leafsnail was in a position to confirm us both.
I admit that NKing me was probably the better option for Pandarsenic. However, as noted in my WoT, if Pandarsenic is scum, then he's smart enough to recognize basic stuff like that.
More importantly, he's far less lazy than you think:From how many games will I be banned for quoting my role PM?Don't you dare fucking do that. >:[
I'm tempted to vote you for trying to blackmail us out of voting you.
We'll see properly if you're scum once I'm done with classes (around 4) and can actually catch up....
When you threatened to quote your role PM, Pandarsenic had a response within three minutes. He's been paying VERY close attention, but not posting anything.And, as an afterthought: There's the fact that he looked at an alternate reading as a response to Leafsnail's roleclaim. Would anyone about to get shafted do something else?
No. At the very least, I wouldn't openly attack him straight away, producing a WoT against the claimed Cop like he did.
After all, if I were truly a townie then there would still be that uncertainty that the claimed Cop really was a Cop.
Good morning, everyone. Nice of you to wait for me to wake up to vote me.
I'm a Vanilla Townie (What'd you expect?)
And I call bullshit on Leafsnail, because quite simply, I know myself to be town, so either one of the people he scanned is a Godfather, or as I believe, he's claiming Cop at Lylo so we execute the one mislynch that leads us to failure.
This is the most telling post. You gave yourself away by getting greedy. You weren't content to lynch your partner then lynch me; you realized that you'd be forced to NK Leafsnail or to depend on WIFOM. You got impatient. You wanted instant, guaranteed, canned victory. You decided to test the waters and pulled back when you couldn't get it to happen.
And now its biting you in the ass.
1. If an option is better, then it is better. If Pandarsenic is scum, then he's a total moron to have gotten himself into this position. He'd need me and Leafsnail alive. I've been saying through this entire game that I think you're some sort of asshole-town, with the statement that a couple of things you do are scummy. He can't read my mind, and therefore the logical thing to do would be to off you and leave me and Leafsnail.
2. If Pandarsenic is that much of SmartScum, then he'd have immediately bussed Toony upon Leafsnail's claim--as he said in the beginning. He could have easily picked me off.
3. Everyone in the entire game posted pretty much immediately, except for you and ToonyMan. Even Org and Leafsnail, who hadn't been around much.
Good morning, everyone. Nice of you to wait for me to wake up to vote me.
I'm a Vanilla Townie (What'd you expect?)
And I call bullshit on Leafsnail, because quite simply, I know myself to be town, so either one of the people he scanned is a Godfather, or as I believe, he's claiming Cop at Lylo so we execute the one mislynch that leads us to failure.
Uncertainty that the claimed cop was actually a cop... overruled by townie-ish paranoia.
It's also nice that you and ToonyMan start providing staged answers as to why the scum left you alive.
Toony become obvscum when I knew what to look for; hindsight is 20/20.
No scum would be willing to defend Toony when he started acting like that. Plenty of scum would try to get the townie killed.
First off, what the hell is a martingale? All I'm getting is something to do with stochastics and betting systems, and also part of a collaring system for an animal.
Also, I don't exactly see that as BS.
And what evidence do you have against ToonyMan?
And what evidence do you have against ToonyMan?
What about this? For some reason, it's no longer "Pandarsenic and ToonyMan are scum! We shouldn't play into their hands, so we need to lynch Pandarsenic first." No, it's "We've got Pandarsenic as scum! Who knows about ToonyMan, even though I've been calling him scum the entire damned time!"
Also, if you really thought I was scum, you should have gotten me lynched. You've been playing bad town. You know, it's not that hard to get three votes on a person to make them sing. You just left when I stopped being a good target for your fury.
Further, it has nothing to do with how stupid or smart we are. It has to do with the situation itself. We have to ask this question: "Independently of how smart the town is, how screwed over will I be by leaving x alive, with x's set of suspicions?" The theory (semi-)rational actors says that a person with suspicions will act on those suspicions. There's "If the town is smart, they may figure this out and I'll be screwed" vs. "No matter how intelligent the town is, I'm dead." Clearly you always pick option a.
In case you hadn't noticed, the vote on ToonyMan became UNANIMOUS. As in, GUARANTEED AT LEAST ONE SCUM WAS ON HIM.Your point?
The scum were OK with ToonyMan's death. And that's why I got hesitant. I've been over this twice now.Or you had no choice. Then you got greedy.
QuoteIn case you hadn't noticed, the vote on ToonyMan became UNANIMOUS. As in, GUARANTEED AT LEAST ONE SCUM WAS ON HIM.Your point?
QuoteThe scum were OK with ToonyMan's death. And that's why I got hesitant. I've been over this twice now.Or you had no choice. Then you got greedy.
Check this again: I was first on ToonyMan. I had previously used later-day bussing in which the benefiting party was the first vote to great effect (see: Beginner's Mafia I, Vote Mafia 3). If I were scum, I was in the PERFECT position and had no reason to unvote.
Check this again: I was first on ToonyMan. I had previously used later-day bussing in which the benefiting party was the first vote to great effect (see: Beginner's Mafia I, Vote Mafia 3). If I were scum, I was in the PERFECT position and had no reason to unvote.
Except for the fact that I can talk my way out of a wet paper bag, and Toony can't. You're not in the perfect position if your partner is actually going to die.
Of course you'd get greedy if he was taking a fall - ending it quickly by lynching me would have allowed you to escape this whole day.
You aren't even thinking this through. This whole day would have been over by now with a Pandarsenic lynch if I stayed on ToonyMan and allowed YOU to end it early.
Question--how do you know?
I'm fairly sure that we have ToonyMan as scum, at the very least, but I'm not sure about Leafsnail or Pandarsenic.
1. You're full of shit.
2. Bring it. ToonyMan.
Unvote. ToonyMan.
Start talking, dumbass.
Er... no. Not everyone thought you were town. You've had me on and off your back the entire time.
And no, if you'd stayed on ToonyMan this day would not be over. I'm not a martingale--remember? Observed behavior does not necessarily match with internal state.
By the way, you're slipping. You weren't first.Question--how do you know?
I'm fairly sure that we have ToonyMan as scum, at the very least, but I'm not sure about Leafsnail or Pandarsenic.1. You're full of shit.
2. Bring it. ToonyMan.Unvote. ToonyMan.
Start talking, dumbass.
You were third. You were also second on Pandarsenic. Once it became apparent that the lynch on him was disintegrating, you flopped.
Yup. Pretty convenient that way, isn't it? You can attack both, and wait to see where the bandwagons fall.
Well, looks like Vector is town. I'm glad I was right about Free Beer.
You know what? No. Screw it. I know it's Free Beer. It smells like Free Beer, it is Free Beer. I've seen this play style before in Beginner's I. It's Free Beer, damn it.
Well, I'm glad the town won this one. Good night, everyoe.
Ok, I'm claiming, since I think we've now got our 2 scum.
I'm a cop. Night 1 I investigated Vector. Result? Town. Night 2 I investigated Webadict. Result? Town. Night 3 I investigated Free Beer. Result? Town.
So that means Pandarsenic and Toonyman are the scum, assuming there is no Godfather. This role was the reason I was acting scummily and lurking earlier - I didn't want the town's best role to be taken out in the night early on. So here you go. Please act on the information I've given you wisely.
Of course, there is also the possibility of FB or Vector being a Godfather, but probability points towards a Pandar/ Toony scumteam. And, to be honest, they've both been acting pretty scummy.
Take note there's no Godfather role listed.
There was no chance for a godfather in this game.
WHAT THE FUCK GUYS. I GIVE YOU THE FUCKING SCUM ON A SILVER PLATTER, BECOME A CONFIRMED TOWNY AND YOU STILL LOSE. DAMNIT!!Blame Vector.
EDIT: AND THERE WEREN'T EVEN GODFATHERS IN THIS GAME. ARGH!!
You know what? No. Screw it. I know it's Free Beer. It smells like Free Beer, it is Free Beer. I've seen this play style before in Beginner's I. It's Free Beer, damn it.The sad thing was that Pandarsenic did exactly what I did in BM 3. I have no idea how Vector missed it.
I know I shouldn't have said Godfather - it's just that they're in BM and I assumed this was exactly the same setup. DAMN! Couldn't someone else have checked?
I know I shouldn't have said Godfather - it's just that they're in BM and I assumed this was exactly the same setup. DAMN! Couldn't someone else have checked?Dude, it doesn't MATTER about the role. It matters that Pandarsenic was ACTING SCUMMY HARDCORE!
DID, Leafsnail. DID create 2 CTs.
I would love to play Kill Webadict Now Mafia. Actually... I would host that.
Dude, it's a ploy! It's really Leafsnail!I would love to play Kill Webadict Now Mafia. Actually... I would host that.
Do it or I WILL.
Dude, it's a ploy! It's really Leafsnail!I would love to play Kill Webadict Now Mafia. Actually... I would host that.
Do it or I WILL.
I could host a bastard modded Kill Webadict Now game. What does everyone think?
I could host a bastard modded Kill Webadict Now game. What does everyone think?
You know what? No. Screw it. I know it's Free Beer. It smells like Free Beer, it is Free Beer. I've seen this play style before in Beginner's I. It's Free Beer, damn it.The sad thing was that Pandarsenic did exactly what I did in BM 3. I have no idea how Vector missed it.
Much of what needs to be said can be found in the Dead (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/d9NEtZH9TnmT5)and Mafia (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/EchYhr26wbFs)chats though.