Post by: Retro on March 12, 2010, 12:58:53 pm
Welcome to Undergrotto, a grotto fortress in a massive underground cavern.
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3443/5vfmaincavern1.png)
DFMA map, with a graphic set. (http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/map-8232-undergrotto)
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3443/5vfmaincavern1.png)
DFMA map, with a graphic set. (http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/map-8232-undergrotto)
Undergrotto has now been archived at Dwarf Fortress Stories (http://dfstories.com/) by trevdogg100. A downloadable pdf of the full tour plus appendices is located there as well (link here (http://dfstories.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/large/undergrotto.pdf)).
I should probably stress the word ‘massive.’ Many megaprojects could fit inside the main cavern, even disregarding the many other sub-caverns inside – many entire fortresses could fit in it, in fact. The main reason I’m posting Undergrotto here is because I don’t think anyone’s done anything quite like this before. Undergrotto was not constructed, it was entirely carved out, with many large structures later been built within. Rather than use simple staircases, I chose to make long, twisting slopes up the sides of the various plateaus and leave winding, suspended walkways hanging throughout the cavern. My goal with the fort was to build each of the large quantity of subprojects I had in mind with a purely aesthetic approach and to make each unique and stand out from each other, and above all, befit their purpose. This has left a lot to see, so without further ado...
Disclaimer: Undergrotto was created in 40d, not 0.31. A few people have asked me about this already - The cavern was hand-carved and not generated by the game.
Spoiler: The tour, part one! (click to show/hide)
).Spoiler: The tour, part two! (click to show/hide)
The save is here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1917), including a copy both with the spring on and running and one without. I use the [CAT_MOUTH] fix from the wiki, so if you don't have that there's an extra copy of my raws/objects folder here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1919). I encourage you to explore in both Visual Fortress (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=30026.13785) and Stonesense (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43260.0); the fort was designed to look good in visualizers. In VF, make sure you turn off the shadow map once you’re inside for the best view. I also have many backup saves from different points in time if you want to see anything when it was in-progress; just ask and I’ll upload it for you. As a heads up, you should turn off temperature in your init if you want to play with the spring; the map partially freezes in late autumn (which it is).
For the curious, older VF screenies are here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=39541.msg1048425#msg1048425) and even older ones here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=39541.msg1024014#msg1024014), and some older SS screenies are here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=48172.msg1048398#msg1048398).
Thanks for taking the time to read all this (if you did, heh)! I began thinking up ideas for Undergrotto in the last week of October and embarked just before Halloween, and I’ve worked on it generally between 4-8 hours every day since, so it’s the product of rather a lot of effort. I’m just happy to have it done before Toady finishes up the next release. The next post is mostly just fort background processes, history, random anecdotes, etc. so don’t mind just skipping all that unless you’re curious. Thanks again, and see you next version!
This is an engraving of a fortress and a mountain by ‘Retro’ Dorenasol. The fortress is wearing the mountain like a hat. The mountain is making a plaintive gesture.
Post by: Retro on March 12, 2010, 12:59:20 pm
Digging and stone management
Undergrotto dug out a little over a million stone in its construction. The main cavern was dug in two separate halves, each churning out 300-330k stone, and the side chambers and sub caverns, as well as vast tunnel system and Mountaingate used up another 400k – even the graveyard’s massive hall left obscene amounts of stone. I also routinely dug out a few thousand stone here and there for smaller projects. Yet now, at the fort’s complete, there are a mere 41 loose stones in the entireity of the fort, and they’re all so inaccessible that I almost lost a fey dwarf to not having any loose stone – in fact, I had to dig out a quarry for later constructions! So how did I do it? Depending on the size of the project I alternated between chasming in the underground river’s pit, creating a temporary atom-smasher on the spot, and for the main cavern, raw-tampering in order to vaporize 650k of stone. The process of digging out the main cavern took one week each for each half making two weeks total in real-time; that’s including designating, digging, dumping, and channelling away. With [SPEED:0] dwarves. Here (http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1970-slowestdamnedfpsever)’s what the process looked like.
Spoiler: Huge blurb on digging projects (click to show/hide)
All this and more here (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Retro#Advice_on_mass-digging_projects). If you have any digging-related questions, just ask me. I consider myself pretty experienced with large-scale digging projects at this point.
What could have been
There are a few things I didn’t get to do in Undergrotto or did in an unsatisfactory manner. First of all, the Rummy Dodger has no sails. I honestly don’t know much about ships and was happy enough to get it to look vaguely like a ship at all, so I just gave it two masts and figured it looked good enough. But I’d want to add an alunite (or if I was feeling bold, clear glass) sail if I ever went back to it.
I’m also unimpressed with the Crescent Arena. I mean, the arena part works fine, but it’s just not big enough for me. The main reason was that I thought of the design for it rather late in the figurative game and most of the stone had been removed already; I didn’t feel like going back and digging out more stone just to heighten it. But I could definitely do better if I really cared enough to put in the time.
I’d wanted to make a special building in the social sector for the Philosopher as well; some kind of observatory with a big fake telescope and a few alchemist’s workshops, but never was happy with any of the design ideas I’d thought of and ditched it. But there’s a big empty space just across from the hospital that would’ve been perfect.
I learned a lot while making Undergrotto, but the one thing I’m disappointed that I never had the chance to do was to use a fluid logic computer of some sort. I’ve never really tried anything with that before. Something I thought of a while ago was making massive canal locks from the outer lake to the inner lake, so I could pretend that it’d sailed in or something. But it would’ve taken a year or maybe two more and would’ve been silly and kind of a waste of time. Maybe next time I’ll plan a port town and put it in or something.
Concessions
Undergrotto was built in 14 in-game years, and I flat-out do not believe it’s possible in a ‘fair’ game to create something like this in that short a time. I used a lot of utilities in Undergrotto; however I need to stress that these were done either out of necessity or purely for aesthetic purpose. Specifically:
From year I think 4 or 5 on, dwarves were given the [SPEED:0] tag. This wasn’t so much for having lighting-bolt uberdwarves so much as because my FPS ranged from >0 to 3 for a few years. The dwarves only moved as fast as regular 30FPS dwarves do in real-time, anyhow, and to fight sieges I set the dwarves back to normal speed, so the only thing this really affected was the fact that the fort is 15 years old instead of, say, 150.
The beach was also purely artifically created. My original plan was, as the western half of the map is a cold mountainous biome and the eastern half is a somewhat-less-cold forested biome, to make the beach way eastwards and move a whole bunch of sand down by collapsing a ton of sandy walls way down. I only realized in December, a month and a half into the project, that I’d completely forgot to embark on a map with sand at all. So begrudgingly I spent an hour or so slowly editing the current beach area into yellow sand using Dtil’s Tile Editor utility.
As opposed to my earlier instructions on how best to dig Undergrotto, I dug out the first half using regular dig designations with an access shaft and later collapsed it. This was an incredibly stupid move, because all the natural ramps I’d worked so hard to plan out were destroyed, and I’d done a whole bunch of work and saved since then without noticing. I later went back and constructed them, but in visualizers it looked really stupid, so I eventually used Dtil again to turn them into natural ramps.
I also did a handful of miscelleaneous aesthetic touch-up work here or there. Basically stuff like I dug a tunnel out one too many tiles and went back and pushed the walls in. What I’m trying to say is that in situations like that, where I could’ve ignored the too-long tunnel or constructed a wall to fill the end, I had the capability to easily legitimately do what I wanted to. It just wouldn’t have had the same effect as the original, natural feel did. The only thing I did that I really consider straight-up cheating was the beach, and that was out of need for sand.
Appreciation
(yes, I’m doing this, I don’t care how cheesy it is)
(yes, I’m doing this, I don’t care how cheesy it is)
First and foremost I want to expression my deep appreciation for Toady and Threetoe for developing this game. Nothing before it has managed to intellectually stimulate my mind so, and I have reservations that anything after it will.
Also a huge shout-out to Baboonanza, the now-absent creator of Visual Fortress (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=30026.13785), and the Stonesense (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43260.0) team for making fabulous visualizers. Undergrotto was designed from the start to look good in visualizers rather than simply layer-by-layer on the DFMA, so having access to quality visualizers did wonders for being able to watch my ideas come to fruition.
Undergrotto needs to pay its dues to some other forts as well. I consider myself a bit obsessed with the DFMA, and have probably looked at 95% of all the maps that have been posted between November and now. There are four maps specifically that inspired an aspect of Undergrotto in one way or another:
Slogo/Logo's Murkgrotto (http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/map-7184-logo-muckgrotto) – When I saw his grotto, an underground cavern with water under its buildings, I was very impressed and knew I wanted to do something similar with the idea of building structures within a dug-out cave. Murkgrotto (or rather ‘this’ Murkgrotto, as it was one of many DFM2 entries) also inspired me to give Undergrotto its lake.
sneakeypete's Relicrags (http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/map-3860-relicrags) – The trader’s entrance inspired me here. It slowly turns and twists around following (or sometimes being followed by) a river. The river itself is also very nicely incorporated with the rest of the fort. The twisty tunnel from Mountaingate down to the cavern as well as the inner lake and Mountaingate’s moat were inspired by this.
Coaldiamond's Clockworks (http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/map-5340-clockworks) – Coaldiamond had set out to create a very natural fort that was shaped by the landscape rather than shaping it. Despite all the digging I did, the ‘challenge’ of Undergrotto was to make it feel entirely natural as well. I also wanted to make a mountain spring after seeing his, though I did mine differently.
Yojimbo's Goldparch (http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/map-2913-goldparch) – Goldparch is an impressive port fortress (portress, ohoho), and I gave Undergrotto something of a port feel due to this. Goldparch also inspired the Rummy Dodger and the lighthouse in the social sector, though the former is kind of shabby and the latter is kind of really ugly.
As a final note, please try not to quote any screenshots – there’s already a whopping 92 images in the first post, and the load time’s probably going to piss enough people off as-is. It’s unlikely I’ll ever seriously return to Undergrotto (until Stonesense comes out with its next, even sexier release warranting more screenies), so ‘til next time, goodnight.
Post by: Sphalerite on March 12, 2010, 01:19:21 pm
Post by: Hyndis on March 12, 2010, 01:31:58 pm
Post by: Jetsquirrel on March 12, 2010, 01:55:31 pm
Post by: yuriatayde on March 12, 2010, 02:03:25 pm
Post by: Loyal on March 12, 2010, 02:26:39 pm
Post by: Stas on March 12, 2010, 02:36:14 pm
Post by: Paranatural on March 12, 2010, 02:44:13 pm
Post by: RantingRodent on March 12, 2010, 03:07:35 pm
Post by: darkrider2 on March 12, 2010, 03:22:44 pm
except uber-amazing-awesome-fantastic-super-duper-mega-epic-win!
I don't think I can go back to normal forum life after this, it's depressing that I have to leave this thread.
Post by: Retro on March 12, 2010, 03:50:55 pm
Post by: mattie2009 on March 12, 2010, 03:58:28 pm
If Chuck Norris played Dwarf Fortress, his fortress might look like this.If Chuck Norris played dwarf fortress, he'd make this entire megaproject out of pure magma.
Until we can get magmaconstructions, I have this to say:
"Undergrotto", a Dwarfite Megaconstruction.
This is Undergrotto. It is made of raw Dwarfite and menaces with spikes of Armok. On it is a picture of an awesome face. On it is a picture of a dwarf and some dwarves. The dwarf is making a plaintitive gesture. The dwarves are digging. This symbolises the founding of Undergrotto in the Year of Armok's Return. On it is a picture of a dwarf and a goblin. The dwarf is pulling a lever. The goblin is in the fetal position. This symbolises the dropping of many gobilns down the Sacrificial Altar-Pit to Armok to stave his hunger for blood. On it is a picture of a river. The river is flowing. This symbolises the artificial river created in Undergrotto for no reason whatsoever. It is worth Infinity coins.
WARNING: The Fabled Megabeast Chuck Norris has heard of this artifact and is coming to take it for himself. Be prepared.
Post by: TheStanman on March 12, 2010, 03:59:00 pm
You, sir, are a god.
I salute you.
Post by: Nobbins on March 12, 2010, 04:11:33 pm
You are a god among men, Retro. I aspire to be like you.
P.S. This would trump Chuck Norris's fort, hands down.
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on March 12, 2010, 04:27:07 pm
I think undergrotto needs a symbol to be carved into all worlds.
Post by: mattie2009 on March 12, 2010, 04:30:55 pm
Wow, nicely done.How about the symbol of the universe imploding.
I think undergrotto needs a symbol to be carved into all worlds.
Post by: Quift on March 12, 2010, 04:41:25 pm
Post by: Shade-o on March 12, 2010, 05:04:27 pm
Post by: atomicthumbs on March 12, 2010, 05:16:46 pm
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 12, 2010, 05:35:44 pm
Why do you have to make my fortress planning lack-of-skills look so terrible?
Post by: Saint on March 12, 2010, 05:41:32 pm
I found my self wanting to cause hell.
Housing collapsed from the roof and fun insued.
Post by: Orkel on March 12, 2010, 05:44:21 pm
This is amazing!
Post by: Sphalerite on March 12, 2010, 05:46:41 pm
Post by: Retro on March 12, 2010, 06:10:43 pm
Why do you have to make my fortress planning lack-of-skills look so terrible?
Suspiciously little planning went into this >_> Well, before-hand planning, that is. I knew the general idea of how I wanted it to look and from there I kind of just made up projects on the spot (ie: "Okay, so I want a social area. Well, there's a nice-looking plateau there - what do dwarves even do to be social anyhow? I guess I could put the mayor's house there - ooh, a manor! Important dwarves should all live there. Hm, well, I guess nobility's gonna need a palace... and the chamberlain's gonna need a bank or some ETC ETC ETC ETC" and only a few of those really panned out). This is a little paint file of literally all the actual planning I did:
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4728/doodlework.png)
I have one or two really general sketches that I'd upload but my printer's pretty busted, so no scanning capabilities. The whole thing, well all the little projects anyways, was just a matter of 'hm, so I need a ___' but then adding functionality and vague realism to it. Like, the jail are expanded from being another cavern with offices for the captain of the guard, hammerer, and dungeon master until I seperately realized that each had a purpose that needed a different building to fulfill (DM - beasts/animal taming, Hammerer - sadistic side of justice, or torture, Captain - justice). Then for stuff like the jail I decided I wanted to isolate it and give it a sense of loneliness, and it ended up being a really high-up penitentiary. I gave it some offices and stuff and added desks all over including a waiting area and then assigned dwarves to it so it would seem very loosely like a police station and so on. I almost made a guardhouse in the magma outside the palace for the royal guard, actually, but it would've ruined the visual I think.
I have a tendency to ramble on in an over-explanitive manner. Have you noticed? :P
I decided to take a good look around and download the save.
I found my self wanting to cause hell.
Housing collapsed from the roof and fun insued.
Bahaha! I never even thought of the fun I could have destroying the grotto. I just tried this and it was awesome (a few screens of death and artwork defacement). Gonna go see what other shit I can stir up.
The screenie turned out wicked, too - this is from the cave-in game freeze before the water went everywhere, hehehehe.
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1641/stalaccollapse.png)
ed- Bleck. I don't think I can get the standard-tileset map to sync to my POIs, and there are waaay too many to just redo them. I might just delete the second map. You non-tileset folk will have to make do, I guess :\ Sorry.
Post by: John Keel on March 12, 2010, 07:11:55 pm
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 12, 2010, 08:15:03 pm
They're rapidly approaching making a single, giant, 100x100 warehouse, and my warehouses are spreading to other floors.
I'm actually a little paralyzed right now, because I'm not quite sure how I want to design my... well, it looks pitiful now, but it's my "great hall". I'm going to wall it in statues, have four waterfalls, and at the end of it, there will be a titan that I'm going to chain up behind a moat like King Kong. (I'll probably mod and tame her first, just so she doesn't scare the dwarves.)
Now, it just seems like a chaotic mess.
Your little zig-zagging powerplant inspired me a little, though. I'm definitely using that, as I'm almost completely ready to tap my underground river.
Maybe I'll redeem myself by making one of those clocks out of this whole thing, and the aligator moat is still kind of cool.
Post by: Tazgrent on March 12, 2010, 08:16:59 pm
Post by: They Got Leader on March 12, 2010, 08:18:07 pm
Maybe I'll redeem myself by making one of those clocks out of this whole thing, and the aligator moat is still kind of cool.
Better yet. Make an alligator clock...
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 12, 2010, 08:34:35 pm
Maybe I'll redeem myself by making one of those clocks out of this whole thing, and the aligator moat is still kind of cool.
Better yet. Make an alligator clock...
I don't even know how I could make a resetable automatic clock out of alligators.
I mean, I could have an alligator drop down infinitely alternating 1-tile bridges, triggering a single "tick" of the next set in the clock when he finally hit bottom by falling on top of a creature-triggered pressure plate.
The problem would be resetting this, I would need to ensure that I always had one, and exactly one, 'gator at the top of that fall at all times (which would require more than one gator at anything but the really long long ticks), plus, if I am using a single pressure plate, that 'gator would have to immediately path off that pressure plate to go back to standing over the top bridge, which would have to automatically position that 'gator in just the right spot.
Hmm... I'm trying, but I'm not seeing this as feasable.
Post by: OldManNeck on March 12, 2010, 08:52:28 pm
Post by: Airpi on March 12, 2010, 09:01:46 pm
Post by: Yssago on March 12, 2010, 09:43:12 pm
You've won the game!
Post by: JohnLukeG on March 12, 2010, 09:52:23 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on March 12, 2010, 09:58:15 pm
HOLY CRAP! :o
You've won the game!
Tru dat!
Post by: x2yzh9 on March 12, 2010, 10:50:05 pm
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!
Post by: x2yzh9 on March 12, 2010, 11:05:12 pm
Missing Creature Body Definition: CAT_MOUTH
???
Post by: darkrider2 on March 12, 2010, 11:23:13 pm
not sure if retro did this but its my best guess.
Post by: x2yzh9 on March 12, 2010, 11:56:42 pm
Post by: immibis on March 13, 2010, 12:26:36 am
Using your save here and it's telling meMy guess is he's using the CAT_MOUTH mod (which fixes a bug) and you're not.
Missing Creature Body Definition: CAT_MOUTH
???
Post by: Fullmoon on March 13, 2010, 12:58:20 am
Everybody must take every means to immortalize this work. Also wiki page needed.
Post by: x2yzh9 on March 13, 2010, 01:49:32 am
Where's the CAT_MOUTH mod?Using your save here and it's telling meMy guess is he's using the CAT_MOUTH mod (which fixes a bug) and you're not.
Missing Creature Body Definition: CAT_MOUTH
???
Post by: Elvang on March 13, 2010, 01:56:54 am
Where's the CAT_MOUTH mod?Here (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Cat_cancels_Store_Item_in_Stockpile:_Too_injured)(Google Cache (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:Aw1TfbJh1N4J:df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Cat_cancels_Store_Item_in_Stockpile:_Too_injured+site:+dwarffortresswiki.net+cat+mouth&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a))
Post by: orbcontrolled on March 13, 2010, 02:56:04 am
The only possible way I can think of to make it more amazing is if we could combine undergrotto and flarechannel into one giant city, half underground half aboveground, half dug half built, all mindblowing.
Post by: BitLooter on March 13, 2010, 03:45:56 am
Post by: Retro on March 13, 2010, 06:27:25 am
Using your save here and it's telling meMy guess is he's using the CAT_MOUTH mod (which fixes a bug) and you're not.
Missing Creature Body Definition: CAT_MOUTH
???
Crap, yeah. Whoops. I've actually tampered with my raws quite a lot but I didn't think anything would affect saves. The cat thing isn't even necessary anymore; Undergrotto only ever had one pet cat and it died from old age a month before the update. Uploaded my copy of the raws just in case (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1919); I'll go add it to the first post now.
That brought a tear to my eye. Absolutely epic. It would be awesome to explore it in adventure mode.
You absolutely can, but I'll warn you that as far as my own experience goes Undergrotto runs hella slow in Adventure mode. It's pretty cool though; I find a lot of chasmlings appear in the tower-cap farm (in the industrial plaza) and the magmaworks (also in the industrial plaza). For additional Fun, try releasing the hydra and titan (they're under the arena; levers are properly labelled) right before you abandon. The hydra you can probably kill easily, but Cerol the titan's stats are 8 strength, 10 agility and 9 toughness from a decade of swimming. The dwarves themselves are all pretty tough bastards so any you managed to recruit would be an impressive feat indeed.
Post by: Nobbins on March 13, 2010, 11:43:11 am
Post by: Retro on March 13, 2010, 05:10:40 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vugor on March 13, 2010, 06:25:07 pm
Post by: Itnetlolor on March 14, 2010, 01:07:29 am
I'm inspired to do a few things, starting with that elf trap thing. I have a new method of applied security.
Post by: Maldevious on March 14, 2010, 09:15:43 am
Post by: Retro on March 14, 2010, 02:05:46 pm
I'm inspired to do a few things, starting with that elf trap thing. I have a new method of applied security.
I only thought it up in the last year of gameplay, but it's incredibly effective. You just have to make it's both always accessible and far closer than the real depot. Also, pull the lever before they all path to the locked door at the far end; if they land on the same tile they won't get caged. Although I'm sure you can trick them into pathing back up and into the bridge maze again if they're capable of walking.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 14, 2010, 02:21:54 pm
I'm pondering enslaving some elves because my queen is an elf, and I think maybe she'd like a few of her own kind as some kind of manservants or pets or something.
I just need to work in a seperate doorway that makes creatures path outside so that they have to pass through the atom smasher again if they somehow don't get caught the first time.
Post by: Repulsion on March 14, 2010, 02:46:39 pm
Post by: Shinziril on March 14, 2010, 04:02:16 pm
And how did you dig out the massive cavern without things collapsing or generally being unhelpful? Mass ramping?
Post by: Retro on March 14, 2010, 05:28:20 pm
If you're playing with [SPEED:0], which you damn well should be for this sort of thing, seven-ish miners isn't so bad. I mean, sure, more often go faster, but at that speed the real-time difference isn't that wide of a margin. When you have more than 12-14, though, it's just excessive. Too many miners can dig out all the dirt around each other, which causes them to pathfind en masse back to the northwestern-most area to start again rather than take a step to the side and keep going. Really it's just important to try and keep them out of each others' paths.
In terms of the cavern, I'll list the ups/downs of each method. I only had two cave-in accidents in all of Undergrotto (ramping under a tree stupidly and accidentally deconstructing a support that I didn't think was a support) so generally as long as you're careful you shouldn't have trouble.
Quote from: Regular Digging and Mass-Collapsing
The main problem with this is that you have to leave access stairwells between floors, which causes your miners to waste probably 7/10 or something of their time on the job running back and forth between their mining spot and the stairwell since they will want to change floors every time they decide to dig elsewhere. If you designate everything at once you can just slowly add to the access stairwell one level at a time as they finish each level to avoid that problem, but then your issue becomes regular access: If you have ramps between levels for the final product, unless you leave out designating them to the end your miners will be able to sidestep your controlled stairwell access. You could use a different method for the levels that dwarves will be walking around and then using this method for the purely open-air levels, but then you have to worry about killing everyone below when you collapse it, so it's not so handy there. Also collapsed floors will destroy your pretty natural ramps, and it's not fun designating channels above your ramps on every single level in order to protect them. All you have to do when you're done is channel out all supporting tiles on each level, which doesn't take too long, and then get rid of the access stairwell and clear out your dwarves. Avoiding cave-ins isn't really an issue because you're kind of going that direction. It's also very unlikely you'll accidentally cause them.
I used this method to carve out the bottom half of the main cavern, but I wish I hadn't, because I ruined my ramps. Also pathfinding was hell.
Quote from: Up/Down Stairs and Channelling
This is the most arduous method and also the one I recommend. IMO it's absolutely worth it if you have the patience. Areas that will eventually become flat, designate as up-stairs. Ramps can be designated as ramps, but remember to leave undesignated squares above them. And everything else is up/down stairs. The main pro to this is obviously access, as you basically have flying dwarves. Plus if you want to do anything crazy like smooth and engrave the whole cavern it works really well. The obvious downside is that you have to channel everything away from the top down, which effectively means you have to designate everything twice, but for access purposes it's unbeatable so I think it's worth it. To avoid cave-ins, you just have to channel out all the stairs directly above all the ramps; if you don't do this, there's a pretty good chance that the dwarves will channel out a layer from below and leave the stairs directly above the ramps floating there, and ka-boom. You really just have to be careful that nobody tantrums on the stairs, since if your dwarves fall or trip or something, it's a long way down.
I used this method to carve out the top half of the main cavern. It worked really well, but because I'd already dug out and populated the bottom half, I had to leave a layer of up-stairs halfway through the cavern and slowly channel them out one at a time, which took forever. That was my own fault though, so I still recommend this method.
Quote from: Ramping
This method is generally pretty terrible for this sort of project. For one thing, you can't designate everything at once, which for planning purposes is absolutely necessary. You're also really likely to mess up and accidentally carve out more than you should by ramping below a ceiling you wanted to keep. I've used this a lot, and if you really want to the trick is to use regular dig designations at the edges of the ramping area as your cavern opens up downwards. It's a huge pain in the ass to remember, too. There are numerous other downsides to this, too, like the fact that ramp-carving is way more laggy than other dig methods, and the likelihood of causing cave-ins through easy mistakes. I also need to stress again that you never dig out more than one floor at a time with this no matter what, since that's a good way to kill some of your miners. There are also a lot of rules to using ramps and you might cut off your miners from food, booze, and beds if you're not familiar with them. There are up-sides to this, though; generally it's pretty easy for digging out small rooms two or three z-levels high, or digging small pits.
I used this method for hollowing out Mountaingate. It worked pretty well I guess, but in hindsight I should've done the stairs thing. I'm lucky I didn't ruin one of my circle layers with it.
Man I write way too much :\
Someone, get a god damn wiki page on this now!
Haha, I doubt that'll happen. But come to think of it, it might be a good idea for me to go make a user profile or whatever and stick all my digging advice up there. Probably easier to refer people to there than type it all up again.
Edit: I did! (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Retro#Advice_on_mass-digging_projects)
Post by: arghy on March 14, 2010, 11:00:20 pm
I love the hollow mountain idea with hanging stalactite housing ala dragon lance dwarves but its so damn hard to manually designate natural looking circles and my dwarves usually get all angry if i dont focus on temp housing for them. I've got the quick fort macros working so i cant wait to try and make what you've done once the new version comes out.
Post by: Doomshifter on March 15, 2010, 03:41:48 am
Post by: Trigonous on March 15, 2010, 04:29:28 am
Post by: Berndarmin on March 15, 2010, 08:15:47 am
Post by: Retro on March 15, 2010, 02:01:51 pm
This fortress is beyond fucking insane--its like everything i've always wanted but never had the patience for. What you did with the entrance way is so friggin awesome though i would have gone with more of a fortified bridge in.
I love the hollow mountain idea with hanging stalactite housing ala dragon lance dwarves but its so damn hard to manually designate natural looking circles and my dwarves usually get all angry if i dont focus on temp housing for them. I've got the quick fort macros working so i cant wait to try and make what you've done once the new version comes out.
For bridge fortifying, the military may be small, but they're multi-legendary in every weapon skill, armour using, and shield using, plus every social skill and some other random stuff. They all have stats in the 20s across the board. And since all enemies are forced to cross the ice bridge where they stand on patrol, it's more or less impossible for anything to get past, even sneaking things. Beats the hell out of dogs for thief-proofing. And is Dragonlance a DnD campaign or something? I didn't catch that reference.
As amazing as this fortress is, I'm more interested in the world to embark in! Do you happen to have the world files, or a save just after embark?
Aside from the [CAT_MOUTH] thing, my raws are minorly touched up randomly here and there, so your world won't be exactly the same, but here's the gen info.
Spoiler: worldgen info (click to show/hide)
Site location is below if you want it. I came close to having a chasm apparently, and wasn't too far from HFS either.
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/572/uglocation.png)
And Doom... you only remind me how behind I am on Mightygrips :| well, I might have some free writing time later today...
Post by: Shrike on March 15, 2010, 02:33:42 pm
Much better than anything I've done/even conceived of. That makes the use of supersonic dwarves okay, in my book. :)
Post by: Heliomance on March 15, 2010, 02:42:04 pm
Post by: ragnarok97071 on March 15, 2010, 04:39:47 pm
Post by: They Got Leader on March 15, 2010, 05:25:59 pm
Post by: arghy on March 15, 2010, 06:27:47 pm
Post by: RantingRodent on March 15, 2010, 07:24:48 pm
Yeah i was thinking more of an elaborate castle around the bridge making it look imposing. The dragon lance books had a fairly nice world except most of it was straight out of DnD/tolken. They had really nice dwarves though with an awesome home that was built into the mountain center with a massive stalactite where the nobles lived suspended over an underground sea with the low class dwarves living around its rim in slums.
All of it was straight out of D&D. Literally. Dragonlance was originally based on a series of D&D play sessions.
Post by: Farce on March 15, 2010, 07:38:21 pm
A+ man. A+ forever.
Post by: dyze on March 16, 2010, 09:33:37 am
Post by: Alrenous on March 17, 2010, 12:14:50 am
I suppose bucket brigades are more effective at speed zero...
Edit: Found Gear's office. :P I thought it was much deeper underground.
Post by: Retro on March 17, 2010, 01:00:30 am
How did you get water to all these odd places, like the lighthouse mini-grotto? And Gear's office?
I suppose bucket brigades are more effective at speed zero...
Edit: Found Gear's office. :P I thought it was much deeper underground.
Heh, yeah, the office is basically part of the outdoor lake. It was a good location at first, but then it later meant I couldn't perfectly round that area of the lake, which was annoying.
A lot of the time I set up some temporary pump scaffolding of sorts, for things like flooding and then draining the park. For others I mostly just set-up pump stations and then later re-purposed the area and now it looks like pumps were never there; I did use pump brigades for the hot tub in the palace and the shrine's pool, but that's it. For the Hammerer's dungeon, there used to be a pump/waterwheel setup from the northwest part of the lake (which is constantly powered by triple pumps) where the drain to the spring's pump stack is now. For the lighthouse's pool I was a bit more sneaky - I actually tapped the lake by going diagonally underneath and ramping upwards to drain slowly but surely into the pool without pressurizing it. Originally the path around the edges that I carved out didn't make it all the way around the area I'd dug due to the lake being in the way, so later when carving out the top half of the cavern I set some space aside to drop the exactly-right amount of natural wall in place to block it off and allow me to dig all the way around. For the pool within Mountaingate I just tapped a pocket aquifer that overlapped with my circle; the site actually has zillions of tiny non-biome-spanning aquifers on the grassy half of the map. Mostly they were a pain while I was flattening the landscape, but this one came in handy!
There was also a weird incident when trying to fill the small pond under the zoo. I filled it from the lake's old brook extension, and it went very slowly; my plan was to block off the source with a lever-door and then just let the rest spill out and evaporate afterwards, but one of the watery tiles seemed to generate unlimited amounts of water. Like an aquifer tile made of air instead of rocky wall. That's why there's a mess under the zoo platform - I tried to dig the spot out, then gave up and sealed it off. And that's all the pools of water I can think of.
Post by: Alrenous on March 17, 2010, 04:18:49 pm
BTW, I don't think you write too much; a project this size needs a lot of exposition, and anyway the only way to stop is the almighty rewriting technique.
Post by: Landstradd on March 17, 2010, 06:52:11 pm
Post by: Retro on March 17, 2010, 07:37:39 pm
I also really like your crypt, which I may totally steal.
It takes up a ton of space, FYI. Like minimum 3z on the surface (walking level, mound top w/statue, open-air) and then 2z underground (tombs, access shaft) and 4x5 of xy space per dwarf to get all the mounds separate. Just warning you. Of course, you could always do it a bit differently.
BTW, I don't think you write too much
>_>
<_<
Retro, if you don't mind me asking, could you explain the raw-tampering you alluded to, that vaporized some of the excess stone?
The smart way to do it: Pick one type of stone from the start and attempt to make everything out of that to avoid losing valuable mechanisms / lever-linked furniture / masterwork stuff. Once everything else is dug, go into the raws (it's like matgloss_mineral and matgloss_layer I think) and pick the most plentiful stone types from your dug-out area - this would probably be the layer stone(s) and the main pockets (ie. microcline, orthoclase, alunite). Keep the economic stones / ores and rough gems. On the stone types you want removed, add [MELTINGPOINT_10000] (just under the subterranean room temperature of 10015) and [BOILINGPOINT_10010] (likewise, but marginally higher). Re-load the game and hit '.' to advance one frame - this should take a while, and your screen will turn red with the boiling smoke and whatnot. Then unpause, let the stone finish boiling (should be decently fast now), save, and close the game. Remove the boiling/melting tokens and re-load. You're good to go.
Dumb way: Decide four years into the fort that you need to use this method. Accidentally destroy a few masterwork items, some levers and other important furniture. Losses somewhat acceptable.
Really dumb way: Decide eight years into the fort that you need to do this a second time. Accidentally destroy hundreds of masterwork items, many important levers, and many imperative floodgates, pumps, and doors connected to the waterworks system. Panic and attempt to stop imminent flooding of fortress.
Um... I went with options #2 and 3. You should go with the first one. More info on my wiki profile (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Retro#How_do_I_get_rid_of_all_this_loose_stone.3F_My_FPS_is_crying.21) or the second post in this thread within some spoilers if you need it.
Post by: sunshaker on March 17, 2010, 07:59:02 pm
Alternate smart way add the [SOIL] token to the stones you don't want to drop rocks.
Post by: *Poster* on March 17, 2010, 08:06:27 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on March 17, 2010, 08:13:14 pm
Unfortunately the tour doesn't seem to work correctly for me. It goes to the bit about the goblin sacrifice, then cuts off the rest... Perhaps you could put it into two spoilers, the second one starting with the goblin drop?
Post by: Retro on March 17, 2010, 08:39:27 pm
Another smart way mode the melting and boiling points in before you dig anything or as soon as you hit a stone you don't want. Stones evaporate as they are mined and should not harm your dwarves. Items will never get made out of them as they evaporate before they can be used. This may affect your FPS though (if you have a lot of miners).
Alternate smart way add the [SOIL] token to the stones you don't want to drop rocks.
I addressed the former method previously; the FPS hit from constant fog is simply way more annoying than one big one at the end that you can leave for five-ish minutes and let it calculate. The latter, though... whoa. Hadn't considered that. That's possibly the best option I've seen yet considering there's no FPS hit at all plus you don't lose everything you've already constructed (presumably). I'll go mess around with it a bit, and if it works perfectly like that (and it looks like it will), I'll make that the preferred method. Thanks for the tip! :D
Unfortunately the tour doesn't seem to work correctly for me. It goes to the bit about the goblin sacrifice, then cuts off the rest... Perhaps you could put it into two spoilers, the second one starting with the goblin drop?
Went ahead and did that for you. It's separated by entrance + main cavern / upper mountain + palace now. I think if you got to the droptower stuff the palace was really the only thing left, so there's not much more. Let me know if that doesn't work for you and I'll crappily transpose the tour to my wiki profile or something.
Post by: Cheddarius on March 17, 2010, 08:41:02 pm
EDIT: Looking back, I'd also like to compliment you on your incredibly natural-looking constructions. For example, normal paths are just straight paths - but the path to your castle is winding and very smooth. I especially liked how you used angled floor tiles to make the edges even smoother - it looks like a real curve.
Post by: Mortesphere on March 17, 2010, 08:42:42 pm
What's the total Created Wealth?
Post by: Retro on March 17, 2010, 08:55:21 pm
I'd also like to compliment you on your incredibly natural-looking constructions. For example, normal paths are just straight paths - but the path to your castle is winding and very smooth. I especially liked how you used angled floor tiles to make the edges even smoother - it looks like a real curve.
Thanks! Generally it's easy to make things look smooth when you make sure to leave a wide berth of ramps; it helps give everything a gentle flow. Aside from that it's just a matter of sketching out rough crappy curves with your mouse as best you can and then touching it up a bit by hand.
What's the total Created Wealth?
Like almost 9mil? Really not very high at all for a 14-year fort with [SPEED:0] for half its lifetime. Maybe it doesn't count wealth that I created then destroyed, like the flood of non-masterwork stuff that I chasmed about a month prior to uploading the saves. Here's the z-screen if you're curious. (http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7500/ugwealth.png) I had two stonecrafters work nonstop for a while on making crafts and whatnot, but didn't do much else. In terms of trading I tended to request nothing but fancy metal (so that when removed the wagons had tons of space, then easily bought it out with enough profit to make the traders ecstatic, then gave like 100-200k of leftover goods away as offerings. Why exported wealth appears so low I may never know; I traded a couple hundred thousand for sure and offered possibly over a million turtles' worth of crafts.
Post by: LumenPlacidum on March 17, 2010, 09:19:43 pm
Kudos.
Post by: kilakan on March 17, 2010, 09:30:20 pm
Post by: Arkenstone on March 17, 2010, 09:34:04 pm
Maybe the value's really like 19 or 29mil, does the game ever display more than 7 digits on value? Planepacked's value had only 7 digits, and that also seems too low....What's the total Created Wealth?
Like almost 9mil? Really not very high at all for a 14-year fort with [SPEED:0] for half its lifetime. Maybe it doesn't count wealth that I created then destroyed, like the flood of non-masterwork stuff that I chasmed about a month prior to uploading the saves. Here's the z-screen if you're curious. (http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7500/ugwealth.png) I had two stonecrafters work nonstop for a while on making crafts and whatnot, but didn't do much else. In terms of trading I tended to request nothing but fancy metal (so that when removed the wagons had tons of space, then easily bought it out with enough profit to make the traders ecstatic, then gave like 100-200k of leftover goods away as offerings. Why exported wealth appears so low I may never know; I traded a couple hundred thousand for sure and offered possibly over a million turtles' worth of crafts.
Post by: Cheddarius on March 17, 2010, 09:35:45 pm
Post by: Retro on March 18, 2010, 07:47:18 am
Maybe the value's really like 19 or 29mil, does the game ever display more than 7 digits on value? Planepacked's value had only 7 digits, and that also seems too low....
Nah, it's probably a legitimate number (I've definitely seen 8-digit values before, anyways). I really didn't spend very much time towards creating wealth at all. It's pretty appropriate that my architectural value is way higher than the other scores I suppose.
Post by: mrmojo on March 18, 2010, 11:55:36 am
Post by: Trigonous on March 18, 2010, 03:40:00 pm
How can I get your raws to work? And did you encounter the volcanism error when generating it?
Post by: sunshaker on March 18, 2010, 03:44:47 pm
Post by: Retro on March 18, 2010, 03:57:38 pm
I'm having trouble generating the world using that param set. I first tried on Mayday's 40d18 conversion, without the edited raws, and I got errors pertaining to the volcanoes, "The world generator is having trouble setting volcanism in the manner specified by the parameters. You might want to adjust the parameters governing volcanism. Alternatively, you can reduce the number of high, medium or low volcanism squares required." This occured after about 1500 rejects. Then I tried adding your raws to the 40d and 40d19 with no custom tilesets, and I got an error saying "One of the compressed files on disc has errors on it."
How can I get your raws to work? And did you encounter the volcanism error when generating it?
Oh, right. Yeah, there's one 'hit c to continue or a to abort' before it works thing, I remember now. Been a while. And it was genned in plain old 40d. If you want the exact same world (just tried this now), just delete the raws/objects folder in a side copy of DF and replace it with the objects folder I uploaded to the main page before you gen it. You'll get that one error and that's (I think) it. After that, all you need is the wiki's [CAT_MOUTH] fix to play it if you want to add your own raws back in. I could upload a save of the world if that works better.
Post by: Jurph on March 18, 2010, 04:29:15 pm
(A) Emigrate to Undergrotto, surround myself with opulent wealth, and inform Ilem II that the King will take over the massive responsibility of managing this epic fortress from now on,
or
(B) Keep the whole thing a secret, and let the Dwarves back home chalk the kingdom's success (and the King's unprecedented wealth and popularity!) to the King's own laid-back management style and savvy foreign relations.
If the Duke doesn't show up soon, you guys ought to secede! (Seriously: this is possibly the most epic fortress I have ever seen. Creations like this are why sandbox games are so amazing. Great work!)
Post by: Heliomance on March 18, 2010, 04:39:45 pm
However, I shall wait until the new version to start work.
Post by: arghy on March 18, 2010, 06:47:37 pm
Post by: kilakan on March 18, 2010, 07:28:46 pm
Post by: jfsh on March 18, 2010, 08:41:22 pm
World Overview
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
From the other side
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
With the terrain removed, you can really see the size of the grotto
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Overhead shot of the grotto
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The entrance ramp
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Overhead, good shot of the ship
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
One more shot of the grotto
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The corkscrew thing
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The hermit's hut
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I definitely encourage people to check this out in their visualizer of choice, the screen caps don't do it justice.
Post by: Sutremaine on March 18, 2010, 09:23:50 pm
Post by: Retro on March 18, 2010, 09:28:46 pm
ed- In response to the below, there are some screenies up of the next version's caves - they won't be more than maybe 2-3z high, so don't get your hopes up :P
Post by: arghy on March 18, 2010, 09:51:42 pm
Post by: jfsh on March 19, 2010, 01:04:00 pm
Wow, thanks for taking those screenshots jfsh! I especially like the third one, I hadn't realized its scope before with the mountain in the way! I might go stick a few of those in the tour :D
Cool, glad you liked them. Feel free. :)
Post by: Sutremaine on March 20, 2010, 02:15:54 pm
ed- In response to the below, there are some screenies up of the next version's caves - they won't be more than maybe 2-3z high, so don't get your hopes up :PI thought it was going to be a part of the worldgen or init options? Or does that refer to how far below the surface the caves start, with the shallow caves repeating for as many layers as the map allows?
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 20, 2010, 09:36:18 pm
Of course, I somehow think that maybe this fort would cause most CPUs to spontaniously combust upon having to integrate it into a world.
Post by: Particleman on March 24, 2010, 06:35:03 pm
Just... holy shit.
Post by: furrot on March 26, 2010, 02:51:16 pm
Your fort is so awesome I feel like an idiot because it was made in the same game as my 1Z left-to-right symmetrical crap forts. I can't imagine what you could do next after this wonder. I think the Wiki needs a "Seven Wonders of Armok" page and this should be at the top.
Also thanks for introducing me to Stonesense, I didn't know there was a visualizer like that available.
Post by: rylen on April 05, 2010, 12:22:26 pm
Post by: TheDancinZerg on April 05, 2010, 01:30:54 pm
Post by: LoneJedi7 on April 05, 2010, 02:09:31 pm
Post by: Alkyon on April 05, 2010, 02:14:26 pm
Post by: Retro on April 05, 2010, 02:28:21 pm
jfsh, what visualizer did you use to take those screenshots?|
v
This looks pretty cool in Khazad.
Khazad is a visualizer, though along with the rest of them it's yet to be updated to v0.31.
Retro, do you have plans to make an Undergrotto 2.0 in DF2010? Or are you still too busy working on making a readable wiki for us (thanks for the military page by the way) to have thought of mega-projects?
I think I would die if I tried anything like this again. If you average the time I spent on it (4-8 hours a day avg'd as 6 over 17 weeks) and put it all together, that's a solid 30 full days of my life into this project. That being said, I'm quite certain all my future large projects will incorporate some sort of large digging job. It's like a trademark now.
As for upcoming megaprojects, right now I'm still learning the ins and outs of the new version and following along in the DFM3 contest. In early May once that contest begins the judging phases, I'll starting up an eight-year tower-building competition. That'll probably be my first big thing of the version. After that I dunno. If you're really curious here's all my old stuff from the last version (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Retro/Fortresses).
Seeing this thread again reminds me that I never updated the first page. I'm busy now, so... I guess I never will be! :D
Post by: LoneJedi7 on April 06, 2010, 12:28:38 am
Post by: Max White on April 06, 2010, 12:42:01 am
Post by: Retro on April 06, 2010, 12:58:12 am
Now thats a cool fortress! Might have even been the inspiration for some of the new features we have now!
As much as I would like to force-feed my ego some viagra, no, no I highly, highly doubt that. But I was really glad to see how the underground turned out in the release! I think if you fumble with the features enough you can get it from tunnely and twisty passages (all alike) to a more open, spacious feel, which I guess is the closest I could get to automatically generating a v0.31 Undergrotto.
Post by: Cheddarius on April 06, 2010, 09:00:01 am
force-feed my ego some viagraThis is the best phrase I've come across today.
Post by: Siru on April 06, 2010, 07:00:36 pm
So, so pretty.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 15, 2010, 04:36:38 pm
Post by: FreakyCheeseMan on April 15, 2010, 04:50:33 pm
You're crazy by Dwarf standards.
Post by: Quantum Toast on April 15, 2010, 06:33:12 pm
Fuck if only the game could generate mountain homes that looked like that.The day DF can generate stuff like this automatically is the day DF stops needing us to play it.
Post by: KojaK on April 15, 2010, 07:30:39 pm
Fuck if only the game could generate mountain homes that looked like that.The day DF can generate stuff like this automatically is the day DF stops needing us to play it.
o.o
Dwarf Fortress... not needing humans to play it?! In this game, you have raving lunatics smearing blood all over the walls, doctors being too busy watching patients die to eat and starve to death, and armor wearing alligators strapping battle axes to their tails.
God only knows what would happen if this game shed it's need for us meatbags. (Probably, lots of *human skull totems* and drowning. Lots and lots of drowning. It would then travel to the nearest volcano and build a gigantic magma megaproject. Then, like the mermaids before us, it would turn and chain us up and harvest our children for their valuable bones.)
Post by: Zengrath on April 15, 2010, 08:20:05 pm
I remember when i was younger and we went to a Ripley's believe it or not museum, There was this massive 2 story bridge with cars, etc. and all sorts of cool stuff all made from TOOTHPICKS, thousands. I thought that was most amazing thing i ever seen, in terms of shear size and patience and craziness, i was like there is no way normal human being could ever do something like that..
Now after seeing this, i think you have won the new crown of MOST INSANE PATIENT CREATIVE PERSON EVER!
Post by: darkrider2 on April 15, 2010, 08:28:10 pm
Quote
God only knows what would happen if this game shed it's need for us meatbags. (Probably, lots of *human skull totems* and drowning. Lots and lots of drowning. It would then travel to the nearest volcano and build a gigantic magma megaproject. Then, like the mermaids before us, it would turn and chain us up and harvest our children for their valuable bones.)
yep! in 2012 toady will make dwarf fortress so great that it will enslave the human race, then it will flood the world in an accident and an ark will be built, because dwarves will need food for the trip, two of each species will be loaded onto the boat.
It turns out Toady One is the true destroyer of worlds.
Post by: Rastaan on April 15, 2010, 10:32:03 pm
You just won life, buddy.
Post by: azrael4h on April 15, 2010, 11:19:44 pm
The DF-based DnD campaign should go through it.
Post by: elthar on April 22, 2010, 04:06:26 am
Post by: Jackrabbit on April 22, 2010, 06:12:30 am
Post by: TigerPlushie on April 28, 2010, 03:49:39 am
...ohh... my god...
I think the dwarvenly way just got bested by the superdwarvenly way!
Post by: Zeff on April 28, 2010, 07:53:03 am
Epic!
Post by: mustyoshi on April 28, 2010, 08:03:09 am
Post by: TigerPlushie on April 28, 2010, 08:20:17 am
As soon as the "unconvenient features" of this game get patched, i'll try to get a bit more creative again.
Post by: Moleculor on April 30, 2010, 06:57:39 am
Post by: Retro on April 30, 2010, 08:40:35 pm
I don't know the first thing about pits, dropping goblins, or blood spatter, but... the failure to bloody the water in the shrine, when you dropped the goblins into the pool? Perhaps a single tile simple 'altar' of some kind (perhaps made of hidden fun metal, or something simpler if mining said metal would be 'bad') directly on the drop point would ensure splattering?
Actually I think the problem was that when I tossed one of the few gobs I had caught, none of the bits really landed in the pool... they all kind of flew up into the air and landed in the lake. Plus even non-flowing water creates a fake flow as best I can tell, so the blood would've just disappeared into a nearby wall.
Of course, just chucking more and more goblins down to test further couldn't hurt :P If only they would siege again...
Post by: AtomicPaperclip on May 01, 2010, 12:49:16 am
Secondly it inspired me to do my own project and I followed your advice and it worked quite nicely (except for spontaneous tree growth causing cave-ins) until I hit magma.
Much appreciated.
Certainly in top 5 forts ever.
Post by: Remalle on May 01, 2010, 01:40:24 am
Post by: Daenyth on May 01, 2010, 12:19:54 pm
Post by: illiterate on May 03, 2010, 12:33:14 pm
Post by: Naz on May 03, 2010, 01:00:16 pm
I'm only on like...my 4th fortress in 40d and the 1st that didnt catch fire immediately but every time I see something like this I just think "I need to build a glass replica of the sun over my fort...and fill it with lava"
You sir, are the definition of dwarvenly.
Post by: Genoraven on May 03, 2010, 03:55:27 pm
Post by: brainfire on May 03, 2010, 05:07:49 pm
Whoa.
This is the best thing.
Post by: Arni on May 04, 2010, 02:12:05 pm
Finest Dwarffortressplayercraftship!
Post by: pbheadtemp on May 05, 2010, 01:41:47 am
I am so happy this was resurrected from the depths so i could see it!
Every friend that I feel like showing dwarf fortress... i am going to show them this thread.
Post by: Inspiration on May 12, 2010, 09:32:08 pm
Post by: Retro on May 12, 2010, 09:50:47 pm
Post by: Jackrabbit on May 13, 2010, 02:07:51 am
Post by: Naz on May 13, 2010, 10:53:23 am
Post by: Flaede on May 13, 2010, 11:28:32 am
Post by: Retro on May 13, 2010, 01:31:51 pm
Well then in the interest of not bumping for the sake of bumping I have an actual technical question. I'm still relatively new at DF (only had the one fort that hasnt exploded so far) and I'm very interested in finding out how you make those railings. I'm just beginning to mess around with massive holes in the ground and some railings would be a godsend. Also does anyone know of a good program for plotting something in 3d? I'm trying to build a huge middle finger coming out of a lake and I'm sort of paralyzed by not knowing how to make a hand in 3d one block at a time.
The railings are vertical bars, built from metal bars with 'b-B' (even though the object 'metal bar' is more like a bar of bullion and vertical bars are the pole-like jail cell bars, but somehow it makes sense). You don't actually need them for safety, they're just decoration. Dwarves will perfectly navigate any crazy no-OSHA-compliance path you set up for them as long as they're not fighting/being attacked and thus trying to dodge. Or insane.
I don't know a good program for 3D plotting, but that question's come up in DF Dwarf Mode before; a search might bring up some topics with program links.
Post by: Duane on May 13, 2010, 02:41:11 pm
I beg to differ. ~30 dwarves pathing down a 3x3 staircase down into the abyss and at least 5 fell to their deaths.Well then in the interest of not bumping for the sake of bumping I have an actual technical question. I'm still relatively new at DF (only had the one fort that hasnt exploded so far) and I'm very interested in finding out how you make those railings. I'm just beginning to mess around with massive holes in the ground and some railings would be a godsend. Also does anyone know of a good program for plotting something in 3d? I'm trying to build a huge middle finger coming out of a lake and I'm sort of paralyzed by not knowing how to make a hand in 3d one block at a time.
The railings are vertical bars, built from metal bars with 'b-B' (even though the object 'metal bar' is more like a bar of bullion and vertical bars are the pole-like jail cell bars, but somehow it makes sense). You don't actually need them for safety, they're just decoration. Dwarves will perfectly navigate any crazy no-OSHA-compliance path you set up for them as long as they're not fighting/being attacked and thus trying to dodge. Or insane.
I don't know a good program for 3D plotting, but that question's come up in DF Dwarf Mode before; a search might bring up some topics with program links.
Post by: Retro on May 13, 2010, 02:51:45 pm
Post by: truckman1 on May 13, 2010, 04:12:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
here's a pic of what I'm talking about:
http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-01/01_C168_big.jpg
and the scene you see it first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WgyKhIqaCc#t=2m15s
(I was linked to the thread from OPs sig about a week ago, and didn't think saying this was important enough to bump the thread).
Post by: Retro on May 13, 2010, 05:24:47 pm
And don't worry about posting here even if the thread gets a bit old, the thing about bumping was something that carried over from another thread.
Post by: Inspiration on May 13, 2010, 07:23:31 pm
Really? Weird. I've never had a dwarf death or injury from tripping and falling, not even on stairs. And at one point the entire top half of the cavern was made up of nothing but up/down stairs while dwarves rocketed all over grabbing stone to dump.Never happened to me either.
"Urist McMiner cancels dig: Tripped down stairs and fell to death"
Post by: truckman1 on May 14, 2010, 02:25:24 am
Finally the thread has been bumped! Just had to say that I'm trying to stop procrastinating and watch that show Neon Genesis Evangelion (I actually don't care for anime that much, but my friend who likes anime more said I had to watch it as even by Japan standards its possibly the weirdest thing ever), I've only watched the first 3-4 episodes, but Undergrotto kind of reminds me of the GeoFront thing that all those buildings in Tokyo-3 sink into. If you've seen the show, you know what I'm talking about. Just saw similarities with the enormous, epically huge artificial cavern with a lake pyramids and stuff inside it with skyscrapers hanging from the ceiling like stalactites. Plus I already know the ending of the show, and it seems pretty dwarfy.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
here's a pic of what I'm talking about:
http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-01/01_C168_big.jpg
and the scene you see it first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WgyKhIqaCc#t=2m15s
(I was linked to the thread from OPs sig about a week ago, and didn't think saying this was important enough to bump the thread).
Oh yeah and possible power goal idea if anyone ever makes their own enormous grotto: In that show, that giant cave is underneath the city of Tokyo, and when one of the evil giant robot/angel/alien thingies (don't ask) is attacking, all the buildings in tokyo sink down into the ground so they hang from the ceiling of the dome. What if someone figured out a way to do that In DF in the name of Science?
Edit: Actually the show isn't that weird for anime at the start, but just to explain how fucking weird the ending to this show is supposed to be, I give you the show's ending's description on the page for Mind Screw (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MindScrew)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So Yeah.....
Post by: trevdogg100 on June 05, 2010, 10:56:12 pm
Post by: Retro on June 06, 2010, 12:41:00 am
Post by: trevdogg100 on June 06, 2010, 04:53:16 pm
Post by: Aly on August 11, 2010, 02:11:57 am
Post by: sneakey pete on August 11, 2010, 04:30:08 am
Post by: xordae on August 11, 2010, 05:13:37 am
Post by: Imic on January 12, 2019, 06:20:32 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 12, 2019, 06:51:17 pm
Does anyone have access to a pdf of this with the piftures intact? Since the link doesn’t seem to...
http://dfstories.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2010/large/undergrotto.pdf