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Dwarf Fortress => DF Bug Reports => Topic started by: derigo on April 02, 2010, 05:02:49 am

Title: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: derigo on April 02, 2010, 05:02:49 am
Elf caravan came with standard 3-5 pack mules or so.  On the trade screen, however they were carrying approximately 10+pages of each KIND of item that they brought.  I bought 350 muck root tubers, 200 rat weed, 5 grizzly bears, and about 600 booze before I ran out of stuff to trade(its year 1, gimme a break).  Thats not even scratching the surface of all the stuff they had.

Additionally, since they had so many items to pack onto their poor mules, it took them 2 seasons to finish packing up and leave.

This is standard worldgen, Medium Island world, if that matters.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: head on April 02, 2010, 08:56:54 am
why dint you just seize it all? whoop?
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Trorbes on April 02, 2010, 12:14:14 pm
Well, considering item weights are now more realistic I imagine that, since pack animals haven't had their carrying capacity changed, they can carry all that now.  If you want to change it it should probably reduce their [trADE_CAPACITY:#].
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Misterstone on April 02, 2010, 12:31:10 pm
You'd need a lot of mules to carry 5 grizzly bears, bro.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: King Doom on April 02, 2010, 03:49:34 pm
Obscene is the perfect word for what they stacked onto those two donkies. Donkeys. Whatever. I sent the first caravan away with 2500 wiorth of profit and next spring they bring what must be close to six hundred items loaded onto two pack animals.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Ves on April 02, 2010, 04:23:20 pm
I just got the same, including 32 different caged animals, including several elephants.

Additionally, rather than Donkeys/Mules/Horses, the Elves have decided to use Warthogs to transport their goods.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Deathworks on April 02, 2010, 09:12:18 pm
Hi!

I just wanted to point out that it is probably NOT an elven problem. I have not seen a single caravan wagon in the 2010 version yet, but with just 3 pack animals, dwarves and humans bring about the same amount of metal items as they did when they had wagons with them, I think.

Deathworks
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Positive B on April 03, 2010, 01:27:21 am
Along with a lot of other things, they bring me four elephants. Three mules - four elephants.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Zombie on April 03, 2010, 01:34:12 am
Those must be the new Pocket Pachyderms I've heard so much about, lately.

Kids these days, with their weird mechanical hamsters and miniaturized elephants...
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Chronas on April 03, 2010, 03:17:22 am
I havent even seen a single wagon either, the normal dorf caravan comes with pack animals and carries fair amount more than i would even see in a wagon caravan
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: immibis on April 03, 2010, 03:25:24 am
Quote from: Chronas on April 03, 2010, 03:17:22 am
I havent even seen a single wagon either, the normal dorf caravan comes with pack animals and carries fair amount more than i would even see in a wagon caravan
Neither have I, now that you mention it.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: King Doom on April 03, 2010, 04:44:57 am
The wagon thing might be an actual change - I'm planning on setting up a road to the edge of the map, I'll see if that gets caravans to bring them.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Pilsu on April 03, 2010, 11:16:43 am
Quote from: King Doom on April 03, 2010, 04:44:57 am
The wagon thing might be an actual change - I'm planning on setting up a road to the edge of the map, I'll see if that gets caravans to bring them.

That's clever actually, one of the supposed changes is that you can build on map edge. A road being required would be a nice change indeed.

Wagon shape has changed too. They have an extra square between the pack animals. At least my starting wagon did.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: random51 on April 03, 2010, 04:43:48 pm
Don't call this a bug! I was happy that it was finally worthwhile to trade with the Elves.

Wood, lots of barrels, lots of liquor, seeds, exotic animals, I was in trader heaven.

Who wants them to go back to bringing in 4 bins of cloth and a bloated tuber?
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Firehound on April 03, 2010, 04:53:59 pm
warthogs.... that explains a lot...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Malicus on April 04, 2010, 02:04:28 am
Most recently, the elves brought, among many other things, MORE THAN A FULL UNIT LIST PAGE of caged creatures (three of them were tigermen, which is a bug in itself).  They were using a horse and a warthog.  This doesn't count the vermin cages, obviously.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Deathworks on April 04, 2010, 02:37:46 am
Hi!

Just a quick comment: Roads do not help you with wagons. At least for me, making roads to the map edge did nothing. Still only pack animals.

Has anyone checked preexisting roads yet?

On a lighter note:
Random51: Trading with the elves has always been worthwhile in 40d for me. When I got lucky, I got an elven diplomat, allowing me to order wood and things as I liked. And even without the diplomat, they already brought me exotic animals like giant eagles and bears, the latter being a great addition to my non-existent militia in 40d. So, the elves were one of my important trade partners.

And actually, the amount of goods is not the real problem (well, as it increases over the years, it does become a problem in itself), but rather that all that stuff is supposedly carried by two or three pack animals. So, you could still have meaningful large elven caravans after the fix if they decided to bring enough pack animals with them.

Deathworks
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Brisk on April 08, 2010, 08:07:11 am
Quote from: Deathworks on April 04, 2010, 02:37:46 am
Just a quick comment: Roads do not help you with wagons. At least for me, making roads to the map edge did nothing. Still only pack animals.

Has anyone checked preexisting roads yet?

Just tried this. I built a paved road from the preexisting road to my depot. I still got dwarf, human, and elf pack animals. I think it is just not possible.

In a way it makes sense. Pack animals can make it down into the underground through the crazy twisting tunnels. Wagons can not.

Still, I would like to see wagons on roads. I had a hard time on that fort because of the aquifer. If I could have requested stone from a wagon caravan it would have been easier.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Vastin on April 08, 2010, 11:16:19 pm
Yeah, my elves showed up the other day and it took me over a minute to scroll through their inventory. Grizzly bears and Giant Eagles are apparently smaller than you'd imagine.

I really would rather not trade with someone who's got an actual wagon of stuff, kthanks. If the ratio is similar it would take them a year or more to unload, and just scrolling through their inventory would take over 5 minutes.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: silhouette on April 08, 2010, 11:23:34 pm
Obviously they are breeding their pack animals to have the maximum strength.
YOU TOO can have donkeys that can carry over 900,000,000 oz!
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Geti on April 08, 2010, 11:25:16 pm
Quote from: Brisk on April 08, 2010, 08:07:11 am
Still, I would like to see wagons on roads. I had a hard time on that fort because of the aquifer. If I could have requested stone from a wagon caravan it would have been easier.
You still get diplomats don't you? You should still be able to request stone.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Deathworks on April 09, 2010, 12:59:18 am
Hi!

Quote from: Vastin on April 08, 2010, 11:16:19 pm
I really would rather not trade with someone who's got an actual wagon of stuff, kthanks. If the ratio is similar it would take them a year or more to unload, and just scrolling through their inventory would take over 5 minutes.

Actually, that is the bug: The ratio is completely ridiculous at the moment. The pack animals should carry only a small fraction of what they are carrying right now, and even one wagon should not carry as much as one pack animal current can carry.

So, if the ratio gets fixed, you will want wagons to get a reasonable trade volume, especially for metal and stone using races (also for the circus supplies the elves bring around).

Deathworks
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Brisk on April 09, 2010, 02:14:21 am
Quote from: Geti on April 08, 2010, 11:25:16 pm
Quote from: Brisk on April 08, 2010, 08:07:11 am
Still, I would like to see wagons on roads. I had a hard time on that fort because of the aquifer. If I could have requested stone from a wagon caravan it would have been easier.
You still get diplomats don't you? You should still be able to request stone.

I did. They brought 10 stones, some armor and weapons, and nothing else.

Stone is heavy.

I think what is happening is that the traders are carrying the cages based on how much the cage weighs, not how much the animal inside weighs.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: LordShotGun on April 09, 2010, 06:27:16 pm
And since the hipocritical elfs use wooden cages...low mass for everyone!!!
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Narmio on April 11, 2010, 06:34:28 am
Have the masses of wooden items significantly reduced this version?
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Chronas on April 11, 2010, 07:16:44 am
toady has overhauled the system of weight, they are now in kilograms if i recall correctly. a lot of objects are <1kg: crafts, cloth clothing -even bronze shields. this would explain why so much stuff is being traded in this version.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Devast on April 11, 2010, 08:49:33 pm
Picture very related.
(http://df.magmawiki.com/images/8/8d/Evil_elves.png)
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: SwiftSpear on April 13, 2010, 06:53:36 am
Quote from: Devast on April 11, 2010, 08:49:33 pm
Picture very related.
(http://df.magmawiki.com/images/8/8d/Evil_elves.png)
Nah, there were 4 elephants.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Prastary on April 14, 2010, 05:39:50 am
Recently the first elven caravan has unloaded their cargo on my depot. I didn't saw how much of cargo it was, because my trader was to lazy. Anyway, it didn't matter, because I planned to kill them all. Unfortunately, the could not pack their cargo to drive back home and just occupied my trade depot with all the cargo unloaded (a bug?). I had to deconstruct the depot to move them. When they moved on the bridge, somebody pulled a lever and they have fallen into oblivion. Then I saw the enormous amount of cargo - I can't keep up with enlarging the storehouses, it is really too much.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Thundrim on April 14, 2010, 09:58:21 am
My last Elven Caravan had only one Elephant, which saddens me. On the other hand they had Tigers, Jaguars, Warthogs, Gorillas, and a Leopard or something in that vein, and more importantly, they brought the forest which they had found the animals in!

It was like Christmas and Easter and your Birthday combined. The human Caravan that followed was like a desolate desert offering though. A few barrels and some trinkets. Those pesky Elves are devaluating a healthy relationship with foreigners. Well, at least healthy trade relationships as we knew them. Not that I'm complaining as such. I will be burning up wood for a Dwarven year. *cough cough*

P.S.

The illustration above is awesome.

---
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Cult of the Raven on April 14, 2010, 04:01:24 pm
I've gone quite a while without seeing a caravan at all. the elves showed up the first time, but my trader was busy sleeping. it seemed like seconds between when they came and when they started packing, and then hours for them to fully pack up.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Treason on April 18, 2010, 10:49:42 am
What's this, what's this?  An actual reason to trade with the hippies elves?

Serious, though, I love trading with the elves, now.  Get a good enough stone crafter going on and who needs to worry about their extremist morals?  I trade stone crafts to everyone that comes through, dwarf, human or whatever, and they never complain.  Saves up all that wood and useful metal for my own needs.

Trading a few stone mugs for a pair of grizzly bears or elephants?  Yes, please!
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Chronas on April 19, 2010, 02:02:27 am
bah, you know nothing of trading with elves. first you get the crappy caravans -there may be some critters you want, but you should always pay with a fist. seize all you want until the good caravan arrives, provided you have the appropriate 'depot' (read: cage traps) they will give you unicorns, and even elves free!
talk about generosity.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: JohnLukeG on April 20, 2010, 04:57:02 am
I encountered this bug today.

I was able to confiscate 15 grizzly bears. 
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: LordShotGun on April 21, 2010, 07:13:46 pm
Too me it seems like elves have an over abundence of items carried on relitivly small animals, while at the same time dwarves bring almost no items at all. I dont know about humans since I have yet to gen a world where they survive.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Hyndis on April 23, 2010, 01:06:47 pm
The elves are bringing so many items that they can't even load them back up. They arrived at the depot, unloaded their stuff, but I was busy expanding the fortress and didn't need to trade anything at the moment, too busy digging. So I ignored them.

They've been trying to pack up and leave the depot for over a year now.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Hyndis on April 23, 2010, 04:04:05 pm
Ugh...I want magma.    >:(

It took so incredibly long for the elves to pack up, they went insane. Now I have a melancholy warthog dropping a seemingly infinite amount of crap on the ground.

My dwarves are currently set to speed:1, and I have 100 dwarves hauling the stuff to an atom smasher.

Its been a year of game time, and they're STILL HAULING STUFF.   >:(

Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: smjjames on April 23, 2010, 04:06:53 pm
Quote from: Hyndis on April 23, 2010, 04:04:05 pm
Ugh...I want magma.    >:(

It took so incredibly long for the elves to pack up, they went insane. Now I have a melancholy warthog dropping a seemingly infinite amount of crap on the ground.

My dwarves are currently set to speed:1, and I have 100 dwarves hauling the stuff to an atom smasher.

Its been a year of game time, and they're STILL HAULING STUFF.   >:(

Since when are warthogs available for hauling stuff in DF?

Maybe the elves need to invent the wheel and wagons.....
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Hyndis on April 23, 2010, 04:37:47 pm
For some reason they're using a warhog as a pack animal. Not sure why, but thats elves for you.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: zarmazarma on April 23, 2010, 05:50:27 pm
Lol, try filling out 10 or 15 pages of food on your dwarf liason, he'll bring it all, and he'll bring A LOT of it.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: smjjames on April 23, 2010, 06:01:02 pm
Quote from: Hyndis on April 23, 2010, 04:37:47 pm
For some reason they're using a warhog as a pack animal. Not sure why, but thats elves for you.

Just checked the raws and warthogs have the pack animal tag, which doesn't make much sense. They are also bigger than dwarves according to the raws, yet half the size of a lion. They are still several times smaller than typical pack animals though.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Hyndis on April 23, 2010, 06:48:01 pm
Quote from: Hyndis on April 23, 2010, 04:37:47 pm
For some reason they're using a warhog as a pack animal. Not sure why, but thats elves for you.

This looks important.

Warthogs are marked as pack animals. But they don't have any trade capacity listed.

All other pack animals seem to have a trade capacity of 1500-3000. There are no other pack animals that lack a trade capacity setting.

Maybe without any trade capacity listed, they carry a nearly infinite number of things?

I'm going to give this a try!
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: smjjames on April 23, 2010, 06:53:04 pm
Um, Horses have the pack animal tag but don't have a trade capacity tag....

Edit: Donkeys, mules, Muskoxen, and both camels have the trade capacity tag, of the typical trade animals, only horses don't have a trade capacity.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Dekon on April 24, 2010, 07:34:01 pm
As much as I like infinite cheap barrels and elephants, the freaking elves drop my FPS from 130 to 80.  Just by showing up.

Way.. way.. way too much shit.

I would just kill them to get them all to go away forever, but then I'd have to deal with the shit they leave behind.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Dekon on April 24, 2010, 08:03:34 pm
Actually.. I just had an idea.

Build a trade depot on top of a platform with a single floor grate or some other floor related path connected to it.  Elves come.  Buy what I want.  Drop elves/crap into magma.

Given the amount of alcohol they stock, that could be really, really hilarious.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: jester on April 24, 2010, 11:54:12 pm
I had the bug but when I brought all their cool animals, (I got about 25 bears/Jaguars/wolves/etc).  only the bears show up on my animals list though.  Elf dudes got stuck trying to pack up their stuff too, only managed to get away when I built another depot.
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on April 28, 2010, 12:30:27 pm
I remember in one of my first Forts of the new version, I got pissed because none of my Dwarfs would trade with the elves, SO I deconstructed the depot.

This in time led to the Collapse of my Fort!

Taking stock, the one Elven Caravan had over 30 individual cages, 20 of which had bears, foxes, and other animals.  There were over 30 pages of wooden toys crafts and other junk,  I counted over 200 barrels full of various stuff, over 500 bins of ropereed cloth. There wasn't room for half the stuff, food began to rot and creata miasma clouds,  I worked my miners to exhaustion trying to make store rooms for everything, and used up all my wood making Bins for what turned out to be almost 2000 individual crafts
Title: Re: [0.31.01]Elf caravan carrying an obscene amount of cargo
Post by: Dekon on April 28, 2010, 01:48:05 pm
Quote from: Crossroads Inc. on April 28, 2010, 12:30:27 pm
I remember in one of my first Forts of the new version, I got pissed because none of my Dwarfs would trade with the elves, SO I deconstructed the depot.

This in time led to the Collapse of my Fort!

Taking stock, the one Elven Caravan had over 30 individual cages, 20 of which had bears, foxes, and other animals.  There were over 30 pages of wooden toys crafts and other junk,  I counted over 200 barrels full of various stuff, over 500 bins of ropereed cloth. There wasn't room for half the stuff, food began to rot and creata miasma clouds,  I worked my miners to exhaustion trying to make store rooms for everything, and used up all my wood making Bins for what turned out to be almost 2000 individual crafts

And I imagine your FPS went down the pisser.

Next time, build a bridge right next to your depot, attach it to a lever, raise it, set a garbage dump right beneath it, and dump -all- the crap from the caravan into that spot.  It'll take a -long- time for the dwarves to haul that amount of junk, but eventually it'll all be under the bridge.  Then atomsmash it.

I had to do it.  Was a pain, but it got done.

Then change the warthog tag to have a load capacity in the raw.