Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Bug Reports => Topic started by: talrave on April 02, 2010, 12:23:32 pm
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I tried looking all over and aside from people mentioning "No fish, lol" I haven't seen anything solid about this... but...
Everywhere I embark, every world I create, every stream, brook, river, and lake... Has no fish.
Add to that the fact that there are maybe 1-2 animals running around, food becomes reliant pretty quick on crops. Crops I need for booze. Anyone else's rivers run lifeless?
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This is partly correct, partly incorrect. In my map world atm I have 3 major fishing areas:
surface pool - plenty of fish visible - plenty of fish catchable - very few "no fish to catch in <area>" warnings
surface brook - plenty of fish visible - plenty of fish catchable - very few "no fish to catch in <area>" warnings
underground cavern pool - a few fish visible - none catchable - constant "no fish to catch in <area>" warnings
Now, this seems a bit odd since I can see various vermin fish in the UG pools, but on the surface I am doing fine. I have about 100 fish in stocks atm, and I can still catch them.
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Strange. I get constant (No fish) warnings... plus if I actually go down and watch the water... Nothing. Just constant water flow. I had my brother watch the screen while I was out, and he didn't see a single thing either. Could some sort of setting be effecting this? The only fish I've even seen since starting play has been on the embark screen.
EDIT: Could it be something dealing with me turning temperature and weather off for performance issues??
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I have also had 0 fish caught on my map. The map does freeze in the spring and winter, though, perhaps this fish just aren't spawning from previously frozen areas?
I occasionally get the 'no fish available' message, but I do see ponds that claim to be fishable. Never see any fish in them, though, and my fisherdwarf has never caught a fish in the entire span of this fort (a little over a year) despite going out and fishing pretty often.
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My oceans are completely lifeless as well, along with very spare local wildlife in groups of one.
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My brook has nothing to catch in it, and never has.
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This may be related to the deadly water problem people have been running into. What is the temperature of your water?
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How do I find that out?
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Not sure, but if your dwarves start melting or slugmen explode whenever it rains, then it's a good indication it's too hot.
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I don't think it's temperature related... After countless attempts I finally got some turtles... but thats it.
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My brook is lifeless, too. Though as I embarked in a desert/rocky wasteland I'm not that surprised.
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Ponds aren't turning up any fish. Don't have a brook, so I don't know about that...
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Temperate brook through a forest produces turtles just fine. Temp on, weather on. Rain isn't causing casualties either.
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The river through my temperate forest has/had a sea lamprey and a sturgeon in it, but I haven't done any fishing.
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I think I can say it's official that our fish are going somewhere. I blame Dagon.
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I was able to get fish from the ocean after designating a fishing zone and zone only fishing.
I was able to get fish from a brook.
I got "no fish to catch" from a river.
EDIT: using a fishing zone underground I also got "no fish to catch"
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Hmm... I wonder if fish aren't VISIBLE in the water now... I will test the method mentioned above.
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Ninja Carp...
Okay, so it's not just me then... Embarked in a nice, temperate, forested area with a brook and a bunch of ponds, yet not a single fish in sight. Though I've been ambushed by a few alligators.
So I suppose, just tossing my mention of this into the mix.
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Heh, I bet they're all avoiding you because Dagon said so.
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Still reeling in nothing but turtles. This certainly is a bug.
Are there people out there getting abundant fish?
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I haven't had any fish in my last few fortresses. food supplies are definitely a problem!
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I had a fort in a temperate forest, only ponds on the surface, containing only turtles -the cavern pools were barren
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Temperate brook through a forest produces turtles just fine. Temp on, weather on. Rain isn't causing casualties either.
scorching brook is fine , rain is fine too (it rains like all the time in that hill-jungle)
but
the murky pools do not ever evaporate , which is weird considering the high temp
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SUCCESS!
I have caught fish in RIVERS! They are in some places, then.
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Still reeling in nothing but turtles. This certainly is a bug.
Are there people out there getting abundant fish?
Embarked in a temperate forest whit a small river. Fort is a few years old now. Been fishing since embark, and must have gotten some 200 - 300 fish total.
No problems for me
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Temperate Zone here
Brook plus lots of pools - not single fish on the surface so far (just started). Lots of no-fish-spam though.
Maybe my dwarves like spam ...
theres definitely something going on here
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Fortress near the ocean. Designated fishing zone and it showed there were 35 or so fish. Fished for a short time and then it was completely empty. Didn't even catch any fish. The ocean shouldn't run out of fish.... that's one reason I embark on ocean areas. Something strange is definitely happening. But, man, what a great game!
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Fortress near the ocean. Designated fishing zone and it showed there were 35 or so fish. Fished for a short time and then it was completely empty. Didn't even catch any fish. The ocean shouldn't run out of fish.... that's one reason I embark on ocean areas. Something strange is definitely happening. But, man, what a great game!
Yuve embarrked on theh ocean a bit too much, laddie.
An' now we all pay fer yer crrimes!
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Has anyone checked to see if there is a big difference when you have a really skilled fisherdwarf?
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Murky pools and brooks aren't turning up any fish for me ("There is nothing to catch in the...") although I know I've *seen* vermin fish in them.
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Apocalypse. No more fishy friends to eat.
And that while fish were my pretty much always one of my primary food sources.
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New fort. Artic ocean this time and no vermin fish to see or catch at all.
But shortly after embark some whales enter. 2 of them tries to swim on land and airdrown. When i butcher one, it yeields ~ 450 meat + liver, kidny and so on, giving a total of around 1k "meals".. seems a bit unbalanced ;D
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New fort. Artic ocean this time and no vermin fish to see or catch at all.
But shortly after embark some whales enter. 2 of them tries to swim on land and airdrown. When i butcher one, it yeields ~ 450 meat + liver, kidny and so on, giving a total of around 1k "meals".. seems a bit unbalanced ;D
Really? It's a whale. A rainbow trout weighs what, a pound or two? and a whale weighs thousands..
[/quote]
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New fort. Artic ocean this time and no vermin fish to see or catch at all.
But shortly after embark some whales enter. 2 of them tries to swim on land and airdrown. When i butcher one, it yeields ~ 450 meat + liver, kidny and so on, giving a total of around 1k "meals".. seems a bit unbalanced ;D
Don't see a problem with this
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All these claims of no fish really baffle me. I have been completely unable to reproduce this at all and I have really tried with well over a dozen different embark sites.
When reporting not having fish, please include details about your location, what terrain type is it on, savanna? grassland? Look for the exact terrain type(s) listed before you embark and make a note of it.
declaring an activity zone is a quick and easy way to test for fish in a location. Do this at embark.
Fish availability also appears to change seasonally. Even if you have no fish, keep checking now and then, sometimes fish show up later.
I have not personally had even one single fort that truly had no fish. and I've done quite a bit of testing already. The only way I seem to be able to generate this claimed lack of fish is to go to a scorching or freezing environment with no river. evaporated or frozen ponds have no fish. duh?
I have occasionally seen at embark one or more bodies of water that had zero fish. I have never seen all bodies of water have no fish at embark. Each time I have seen that fish did later appear in every body of water during some part of the season.
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My issue, rather then a lack of fish at all, seems to be a lack of catchable fish. My fisherdwarves go off to various pools and attempt to fish for a while, never catch anything, and I then get a 'no fish' message for the pond.
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i believe there has been reports of skill level effecting fishing like catching the damn thing cause they are trying to fish with hands.
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i believe there has been reports of skill level effecting fishing like catching the damn thing cause they are trying to fish with hands.
^^^
Actually this makes sense, since i recently was on a map with 0 fish and a legendary fisherdwarf ( I hate the skills that immigrants have now gimme my unskilled peasants back) came in and i started getting fish... however it was only a dozen per year.
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New fort. Artic ocean this time and no vermin fish to see or catch at all.
But shortly after embark some whales enter. 2 of them tries to swim on land and airdrown. When i butcher one, it yeields ~ 450 meat + liver, kidny and so on, giving a total of around 1k "meals".. seems a bit unbalanced ;D
You know, if I was living there, after a while, I'd be bloody well done and sick with nothing but two year old whale meat. I feel sorry for the poor dwarf who had to butcher that thing. His shop must have just exploded.
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Temperate Grassland, no winter freezes, recently embarked.
Needed to fish in order to survive initial period while I attempted to set up some viable farming operations.
Brook: No fish. No caught Fish. No fish were found.
Pool: No fish. Ditto.
Carved pool: No fish. Ditto.
Underworld: Giant cave spiders met. Engaged. Fortress Abandoned due to impressive amounts of gore replacing dwarves.
:(
As giant cave spiders are not fish, I have to say, this site did not appear to have any fish.
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The lack of fish in this version has made it impossible to acquire shells for me, and thus has already accounted for the death of at least 9 moody dwarves.
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The lack of fish in this version has made it impossible to acquire shells for me, and thus has already accounted for the death of at least 9 moody dwarves.
I had the exact same problem. 6 dwarves offed themselves bacause there where no shells around. But then! A forgotten beast appeared! After introducing it to the sharp side of an axe it was butchered an lo! 56 shells are now neatly stored in my stockpile!
They have to last ... until the next shell bearing forgotten beast comes along (or a patch) :)
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The lack of fish in this version has made it impossible to acquire shells for me, and thus has already accounted for the death of at least 9 moody dwarves.
I had the exact same problem. 6 dwarves offed themselves bacause there where no shells around. But then! A forgotten beast appeared! After introducing it to the sharp side of an axe it was butchered an lo! 56 shells are now neatly stored in my stockpile!
They have to last ... until the next shell bearing forgotten beast comes along (or a patch) :)
I had this exact same scenario show up! Underworld, had a moody dwarf demanding shells, absolutely no fish anywhere on the map or underground (despite what the fishing zone said) and a forgotten beast showed up (which can apparently swim, as the only way to get to my underground fort entrance was to cross a lake to the island I was on). Unfortunately, that was the period when I discovered that my entire squad was manned by relatives of Urist McMorbid, as the stationed, activated, equipped and Kill ordered dwarfs, in plain sight of the beast, just sat there and let it rampage throughout the fortress, killing everyone and everything in sight.
In the end..Fishing is buggy.
..so is the Military :-\
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I'm constantly getting this too, both under- and above-ground, at best I can find turtles but never anything else.
Usually this is with no temperature (temperate regions), no weather, varying age worlds (between 100 - 1000 years for islands/regions in world gen), decently skilled fisherdwarves.
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Temperate forest, river and murky ponds. Used the "Embark now" option and two of my starting seven were fisherdwarves. Despite their best attempts neither the river nor the ponds have yielded a single fish or turtle. Not for lack of trying, those two determinedly go right to the water sources first thing every season and stand there a bit before the "There are no fish in the <whatever>" message pops up. Those are two dwarves who went on the wrong expedition.
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in several different embarkations, I've only ever managed to catch turtles. No fish anywhere. Get "No more fish" messages, even when in temp lands with brooks and immigrant fishermen with "High" something skill in fishing.
Turtles, on the other hand, are generally plentiful, so long as the embarkation sites are moderate in temperature and there's a brook and one or more ponds in the area.
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I don't understand what people are saying about the fishing zone saying that there are fish.
It doesn't. It says how many squares can be fished from.
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I don't understand what people are saying about the fishing zone saying that there are fish.
It doesn't. It says how many squares can be fished from.
Correct.
It doesn't say jack about the abundance of fish.
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I have noticed fairly consistently that after I get the "There are no more fish in the ..." message, if I check the activity zone I will see the number next to fish on the zone go to zero. It resets every season, and I have to actually have a dwarf try to fish from it first, but it does indicate that there are no more fish to be caught in that zone.
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I've seen the same thing on three different generated worlds. One was mountainous with only aboveground and underground pools. One was happy temperate forest with a river and plenty of aboveground ponds. My current is bordering "Haunted" territory with a river and ponds. Immediate reports of "No fish in ..." in all three, even embarking with a skilled fisherdwarf and setting fishing zones. It's been a year and a half in the current fortress, without a single fish or turtle caught, so it's not based on seasonal fish appearances, at least for me. I'll probably have to abandon the fortress since there's also nothing to hunt except skeletal mountain goats, which I'm pretty sure aren't edible. (Not to mention I've had three military people fighting one for over a season and they've only managed to pull a horn off, break some ribs and tear its legs off.)
Something I noticed, that nobody has mentioned, when I built a Fishery and traps and gave the Fishery the "Catch Live Fish" activity, my Fisherdwarf went to pick up a trap, and then stood around the fortress, doing nothing but holding the trap. As soon as I canceled the "Catch Live Fish" activity, he dropped the trap and went to find something to drink and eat.
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OK, so I fired up DF, genned a world with parameters (one of the sets designed by Toady that comes already added to the worldgen file), set up a fishing zone along the beach, and... VOILA! Fish! Rays, oysters, etc. etc. in abundance.
Don't see any mega-fauna type fish, but that is normal- I almost never saw them in the previous version.
I think we've already been over this at the mantis tracker, but in the games you guys tested out... were the worlds with no fish created with your own custom worldgen parameters, or with ones that were included with the game originally?
*edit* er, nevermind, I see people were complaining more about pools, rivers, underground water, etc.
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The only fish I've ever seen in my 2x8 over-estuary Bridgefort are Sea Nettles, does that count?
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I've started forts in about a dozen locations now and have yet to be able to establish any fishing industry at all regardless of climate. It's not for lack of running water either as I almost always embark on a location with a brook. I've started two or three seaside forts as well and there was never any sign of any fish at all.
Beyond that, I've yet to see any fish besides cave fish and cave lobsters offered on the embark screen. I'm sure that prepared orangutan brains have their appeal to some dwarves, but the sailfin molly and turtles that fed many a dwarf early on in the last version are totally unavailable this time around even though the mountainhome itself is quite capable of producing them. Surface fishing is pretty definitely broken in this version.
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EDIT: Could it be something dealing with me turning temperature and weather off for performance issues??
It's quite possible that fish spawn based on a temperature value or something, so you have different fish different times of the year, or fish don't spawn in ice, or something like that. I think vermin work quite differently than hunt-able animals in terms of how it figures out when and where they appear.
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Finally had a fort with turtles, at least. Temperate forest, and an Adequate fisherdwarf was having no problems catching them. Still haven't seen anything but turtles, though.
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Update on the fish and temperature idea.
So far, in every place but one, where I have started in a Freezing or a Scorching (or even merely hot) environment, there have been no fish what so ever. Above ground or below in the caverns.
It is probably very temperature related.
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Update, again.
All temperature areas tested, with three different fortresses and four different worlds (two with custom generation settings, two without).
Freezing
Cold
Temperate
Warm
Hot
Only a single area ever had fish in it. A couple had Marlins and Sturgeon show up for about a minute, and one had whales, but absolutely no fishable fish or even turtles
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Toady has marked this as Resolved in the bug tracker, so I think we should be good whenever the next bug fix version comes out.
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wonder if it's something in the RAWs or a true bugfix.
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I don't suppose anyone has a workaround in the meantime?
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I don't understand what people are saying about the fishing zone saying that there are fish.
It doesn't. It says how many squares can be fished from.
Correct.
It doesn't say jack about the abundance of fish.
In 0.28, the indication will be reduced to 0 once the "no fish" message comes up, and no dwarves will go there anymore.
Actually it is more annoying when YOU CAN SEE FISH SWIMMING IN THE BODY OF WATER that the game said "no fish".
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Not a single fish or turtle anywhere on my map. Ever. Constant "nothing left to catch" messages. (Plenty of murky pools, plus a brook.)
I think I may have seen a toad or two, but no more.
Absolutely no above-ground animals either. Not a single marmot, goat, groundhog, deer, wolf--nada. On the embark screen, where it usually says "strike the earth ere the wolves/cougars/giant eagles/whatever get hungry", there was no animal type listed. Just "beasts". Passing strange, and I'm quite disappointed, but between elven imports and the cavern critters, I can tolerate it.
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Absolutely no above-ground animals either. Not a single marmot, goat, groundhog, deer, wolf--nada. On the embark screen, where it usually says "strike the earth ere the wolves/cougars/giant eagles/whatever get hungry", there was no animal type listed. Just "beasts". Passing strange, and I'm quite disappointed, but between elven imports and the cavern critters, I can tolerate it.
That definitely sounds like an issue with your particular site. I've certainly had my share of non-water-based wildlife.
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I embarked at the ocean, and they are reeling in hundreds of fish. It seems the growth is almost exponential, I'm swimming in fish (heh)!
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Using the default worldgen settings across several sites, I found the following results:
Temperate Forest w/ River & Mountainside:
2x turtle (2 years of attempted fishing by skilled fisherdwarfs.)
Hot Ocean shore w/ Pools:
No fish (2 seasons of attempted fishing by skilled fisherdwarfs.)
Temperate Swamp w/ River:
No fish (1.5 years of attempted fishing by unskilled fisherdwarfs.)
If this doesn't work with totally stock worldgen, then something sounds wrong. As for more terrestrial wildlife, I've seen a fair share of mountain goats and hoary marmots and the like, even a giant eagle and a few bears, but not too many in total - I see maybe 5-6 total animals move through the site in a given year. Feels a little low compared to some of my old forts although it's not exactly barren.
EDIT: Nevermind, I hadn't installed the new update properly. Upon reinstalling it, everything seems to be working as intended.
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I'm really disheartened by this, and was hoping it was simply my couple worldgens that caused the issue. I'm a real fan of aquatic biomes, particularly beaches. I like glass lighthouses built so that waves create mist that travels through window slits--for mood and cleansing purposes. However, my seasonal practice of watching defensive fish balling, the odd whale, and awaiting the day a mermaid appears, is kind of hampered by this update.
Plus, shells aren't very user friendly. While of no value in their raw form, they don't change when worked. So they're useless refuse, or repeat tasks if you want. On a better note, I found a rather interesting space, it's a bit more 'grounded' than I like. But I still have some ocean to watch, with primary residents being some reaaaal deep sea nettle jellies. The freshwater lakes on the elevated plain seem to have a rather replenishing array of freshwater fish and turtle. I've only seen one actual sea fish, an Opah.
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Still getting this in 31.04 as well, not sure if it matters but the biome is quite warm, tropical savanna, and all the murk pools were dry on embark. I'm posting the save on dffd and I'll edit it into the post as soon as I'm done. Here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2389) is the save folder.
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I'm going to spend this weekend looking through the raws, pretending I know Python, at least, I think it's python. Doesn't look like C++, which is the only language I have experience in.
EDIT: Was able to get a crapton of turtles in a warm freshwater swamp...oddly enough, there was a saltwater crocodile on the map. Changed the creature tile tag to 15 instead of 151 after noticing that the raws on the wiki had the creature tile at 15 and my raws were at 151. Going to test in a couple more areas. I do not think that was the problem though.
EDIT2: Good news, was able to get plenty of turtles in a temperate shrubland. Further testing probably needed, but seeing as since the creature tile change from 151 to 15 I have had turtles in 2 out of 2 fortresses, and not having turtles on at least 20 previous forts, I think I might be on to something.
EDIT3: Created a fortress near the ocean to see if I was lucky there too. I was, so I'm starting to think that my guess on the problem might be wrong. I'm going to generate another world and test further. I'm going to be very confused if the lack of fish is due to one tiny syntax error in the raws for turtles.
EDIT4: Created a new world and got some turtles on a mountain map that happened to have a couple pools. Created another map with a stream and was not able to catch any fish in either the pools or the stream. I think it might have something to do with streams/brooks.
EDIT5: Played on the same world as the one where I couldn't find turtles and embarked in an area without a stream/brook. Was able to catch lots of turtles. Also noticed there was an aquifier. Going to see if I can find a map without an aquifier and see if turtles still appear. If they do, it's probably the brooks thing then or maybe some bizarre combination of the two.
EDIT6: Unfortunately, I was unable to recreate the turtles again, be it on a map with an aquifier, without an aquifier, with a river, or with a river and an aquifier. I think I have hit a dead end. Any ideas?
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Every fortress I've created in 31.04 has had fish or mussells or turtles or a combination of them.
The catchable fish and mussells are new in 31.04. The turtles I've had since 31.01. I haven't altered my raws, I've only altered the init and d_init settings to get rid of the blackspace, display water by depth, prompt for full scren on startup, and define how big my screen is in full screen mode.
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What sort of fortresses do you start on? I'm starting to think it's a matter of not being able to catch anything in pools that are set to evaporate.
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I have the v0.31.04 and i got plenty of fishes in a brook. It was in a temperate genome. But me seas was still fish-less. Do we know what cause this bug?
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I'm starting to think you will only catch anything if you embark on an area where the pools don't dry up at any point during the year. Not sure about freezing.
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Pools that evaporate are good for mussells.
I haven't hit the extremes of scorching or glacier/artic yet, but I have been in cool, temperate and hot maps.