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Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Topic started by: Pathos on April 03, 2010, 02:24:06 pm

Title: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Pathos on April 03, 2010, 02:24:06 pm
What Is Kobold Camp?
Kobold Camp is playing Dwarf Fortress as, you guessed it, kobolds. It was originally started as the brain child of a /tg/ thread ( archive link to the thread ) (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2965122/). ( See, 4Chan does contribute positively sometimes! )

There's also a thread on these forums dedicated to the old version. The only real reason to read it is because it's bloody hilarious. Link here. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27088.0)

As a general thing, you build your camp above ground, as it'd be called Kobold Warren otherwise!

Why The Hell Would I Want To Play That?!
Despite the fact that kobbs are much weaker, much smaller and incapable of many more jobs than dwarves ( and trust me, this makes it a lot more difficult ), they're also adorable and it's really rewarding to raise a bunch of these weaklings into a decent camp. You will notice a great deal of difficulty due to lack of trading, lack of a lot of "essential" professions etc etc.

Okay, Then, What Now?
New version up as of 06/04! Go download it here: [Download Link] (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1975)

Changelog
Spoiler: 0.3 ALPHA (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 0.21 ALPHA (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 0.2 ALPHA (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 0.16 ALPHA (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 0.15 ALPHA (click to show/hide)
NOTE on my Version Changes: A change in 0.0x is significant ( you should probably switch over ) , a change in 0.x0 is gamechanging and a change in 0.00x is not really worth changing to.

Contributors / Special Thanks
Kaelem Gaen - Contributed land owning and military nobles.
Lofn - Made fur and fur beds for the new version! Good stuff! Also made the idea for silver / lead poisoning due to mining.
Deon - Allowed me to steal silver / lead poisoning from his mod. Download his amazing mods here. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52988.0)
Chariot - Allowed me to integrate his amazing mods into this one. Download his wide variety of brilliant mods here. (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/User:Chariot)
Warlord255 - Provided the numbers on how to make weapon-able stones.

Additional Info
Well, this is the initial Kobold Camp release for DF2010 ( 0.31.01 ). Any requests for features / features that you've created that I should include?

More random stuff to be put in the better acquainted I get with the new tags.

Cutebolds = Awesome
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5450/koboldrx8.gif)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 )
Post by: Volatar on April 03, 2010, 02:29:14 pm
Why don't you include a description of what Kobold Camp is? :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 )
Post by: Pathos on April 03, 2010, 02:38:45 pm
Why don't you include a description of what Kobold Camp is? :)

Done!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 )
Post by: roqi on April 03, 2010, 02:48:37 pm
;D

I believe that we need leaders, monarchs, etc. Could call him a Shaman, perhaps?
In my copy, I'm gonna make biting the primary attack method, as it seems more appriopiate for Cutebolds. Speaking of Cutebolds - needs graphics ported.

Also, I keep getting this at worldgen:
No controllable entity definitions available
What do?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 )
Post by: Meanmelter on April 03, 2010, 02:51:42 pm
My Kobbies will be staying underground FOREVER! fuck sunlight. They will more than Likely die by some angry ant Civilization, only ran into one that was VERY happy with my 'works'
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 )
Post by: Ampersand on April 03, 2010, 03:00:44 pm
With the new options we have for custom buildings and reactions, and caste types, I think Kobold Camp ought to be throughly expanded upon. Mostly for flavor , but there are a lot of uses for these things that could make it more Kobold Campish.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 )
Post by: Pathos on April 03, 2010, 03:16:06 pm
New version up!

With the new options we have for custom buildings and reactions, and caste types, I think Kobold Camp ought to be throughly expanded upon. Mostly for flavor , but there are a lot of uses for these things that could make it more Kobold Campish.

I can't make head or tails on the caste system, but I agree entirely on this.

A few of my ideas for the future:
- A big version of the kobolds for monarchs, maybe gender neutral and unbreedable. It depends if this is possible or not.
- A fur / leather bed maker's shop, using the new custom workshops. Shouldn't be too difficult.
- Working out the individual nobles and seeing how to use them. My ideas are to use shamans as priests ( should we have gods or use [POWERS]? ), mayors as Chieftains and the big bad boys as the aforementioned leaders.

Also, I keep getting this at worldgen:
No controllable entity definitions available
What do?

I just increased how fast kobbs breed, I don't know whether it'll help or not. Let me fire up a world.

P.S. Most of this stuff isn't really tested. Please to god inform me of bugs.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.15 )
Post by: Pathos on April 03, 2010, 03:45:43 pm
Hmm.. I've just had a problem of my kobolds just standing around not doing anything ( although, I've heard that some dwarves do that, too ).

I just realised there's a lack of woodcutting tools open to kobbs, so I've thrown in choppers from the old version.

But, what has me stumped is the fact that, under labours, there's no way to get labours other to butcher the kobb. I am confused.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 )
Post by: roqi on April 03, 2010, 03:58:24 pm
A few of my ideas for the future:
- A big version of the kobolds for monarchs, maybe gender neutral and unbreedable. It depends if this is possible or not.
- A fur / leather bed maker's shop, using the new custom workshops. Shouldn't be too difficult.
- Working out the individual nobles and seeing how to use them. My ideas are to use shamans as priests ( should we have gods or use [POWERS]? ), mayors as Chieftains and the big bad boys as the aforementioned leaders.

We are also going to need various new tools, weapons, armor, etc. made in custom workshops. Let me know if I could help with anything.
I'm gonna try and tackle the leather beds, now.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 )
Post by: Pathos on April 03, 2010, 04:34:12 pm
We are also going to need various new tools, weapons, armor, etc. made in custom workshops. Let me know if I could help with anything.
I'm gonna try and tackle the leather beds, now.

I'll try and piece together bone armour in the current version, though.

New version uploaded, too. This one doesn't have butcherable kobbs.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 03, 2010, 05:58:50 pm
Remember, people, kobbs can only dig through soil!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: Volatar on April 03, 2010, 06:34:13 pm
This is rather cool looking. I think I might try it out soon.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: dbfuru on April 03, 2010, 06:46:29 pm
I played Kobold Camp on the last version of DF and it was fun, there is definitely more room for improvement with DF 2010. I'll wait until this develops a bit more though before I download and I am also still checking out the new features of Dwarf Fortress.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 03, 2010, 06:48:14 pm
Huh and I thought I'd have to wait longer, I'll update my Langauge thing in a bit.  I wonder if he added more symbols and words though.

-ponders-

EDIT:   Oh also, since we now have custom workshops and custom "other" reactions think we can see the return of the leather beds?
It looks like you could even set it to use/train the "Leatherworking" skill.


I saw that was already though of, I'm screwing around with reactions right now to see if I can make the bed and bed workshop.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: magikarcher on April 03, 2010, 07:22:27 pm
My biggest beef with it is that it is impossible to build so many workshops, because the kobolds lack SO MANY skills. I mean seriously, they don't even have masonry?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: Pathos on April 03, 2010, 09:11:33 pm
Remember, people, kobbs can only dig through soil!

This is true! They only HAVE shovels.

Huh and I thought I'd have to wait longer, I'll update my Langauge thing in a bit.  I wonder if he added more symbols and words though.

-ponders-

EDIT:   Oh also, since we now have custom workshops and custom "other" reactions think we can see the return of the leather beds?
It looks like you could even set it to use/train the "Leatherworking" skill.


I saw that was already though of, I'm screwing around with reactions right now to see if I can make the bed and bed workshop.

The only trouble is that no language is as awesome as the kobolds random syllables.

Also, good initiative! We need more people like you and roqi.

My biggest beef with it is that it is impossible to build so many workshops, because the kobolds lack SO MANY skills. I mean seriously, they don't even have masonry?

To be fair, that's the point. If you're digging into rock, you're doing something wrong.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 03, 2010, 09:27:02 pm
Yeah the Language thing is a personal flavor choice, I envision them as a tribal people, tribes have language and all that fun stuff.

Eitherway, that's just my play style. 

Right now I'm trying to create a world for Kobold Camp, but I keep getting rejects one that crops up alot is

Code: [Select]
The Windy Universe, region1: No controllable entity definitions available'

There we go, had to up the cave count.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 03, 2010, 11:01:22 pm
My biggest beef with it is that it is impossible to build so many workshops, because the kobolds lack SO MANY skills. I mean seriously, they don't even have masonry?
all wood, baby

They can't dig into stone.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 03, 2010, 11:33:03 pm
Well I abandoned the reaction/workshop for now, trying out Nobles since it looks like you just C&P and edit to fit society....

Here's what I have assuming it works

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now to test, at least the early guys.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: magikarcher on April 04, 2010, 01:07:17 am
When you say they can't dig into stone, I hope you mean that I must use the honor system and not dig into stone. I was more than capable to dig stone, ore, gems, etc.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 04, 2010, 01:10:01 am
Generally the no-stone digging is a self-imposed rule.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Bishop36 on April 04, 2010, 02:40:59 am
The old kobold camp used to be all I played, probably going to be the same for this one. I have a full set of kobold graphics if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.16 )
Post by: roqi on April 04, 2010, 03:04:30 am

Huh and I thought I'd have to wait longer, I'll update my Langauge thing in a bit.  I wonder if he added more symbols and words though.

-ponders-

EDIT:   Oh also, since we now have custom workshops and custom "other" reactions think we can see the return of the leather beds?
It looks like you could even set it to use/train the "Leatherworking" skill.


I saw that was already though of, I'm screwing around with reactions right now to see if I can make the bed and bed workshop.

The only trouble is that no language is as awesome as the kobolds random syllables.

We seriously need a language file full of grlfbnlum. I want to be able to name camps.

There we go, had to up the cave count.

Did it work?

The old kobold camp used to be all I played, probably going to be the same for this one. I have a full set of kobold graphics if anyone is interested.

Somebody needs to figure out how to insert them, if anything. D'you think the author will be mad if I make a Doctor Kob sprite editing the old cutebold graphics? I don't remember who made them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Lofn on April 04, 2010, 03:07:17 am
I've been trying to sort out some fur-making and leather-bed-producing raws, but they don't really want to cooperate.  I'll post here if I finish them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 04, 2010, 03:19:26 am
When you say they can't dig into stone, I hope you mean that I must use the honor system and not dig into stone.
If you're willing to impose playing kobolds on yourself, surely you can decide to only dig into soil.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: LordFrank on April 04, 2010, 04:28:11 am
So, each time I try to make a world it gets to the placeing of civilizations then rejects the world and starts over. Anyone know how I can fix that? I'd really like to start tormenting some kobolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Lofn on April 04, 2010, 04:31:00 am
OKAY.  I got them working properly.

First, add [MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FUR_MAT:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:FUR] to SKIN_TEMPLATE in material_template_default.txt.

Now add [ADD_MATERIAL:FUR:TANNED_FUR_TEMPLATE] to the bottom of [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS] in b_detail_plan_default.

Next, add the following to either material_template_default.txt or a new material_template file if you want to keep them seperate.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now create a new reaction file, and paste in:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lastly, create a new building file and paste in the following:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You should now be able to tan skin at the Furrier's Shop for fur, which can then be used to make leather goods at the Leatherworker's shop or turned into bedding at the Furrier's shop.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: robfd on April 04, 2010, 04:47:29 am
you forgot to add the entrys that allow them for the civilization ;) Code in spoiler
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Lofn on April 04, 2010, 05:11:52 am
Whoops, so I did!  Thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 06:15:33 am
So, each time I try to make a world it gets to the placeing of civilizations then rejects the world and starts over. Anyone know how I can fix that? I'd really like to start tormenting some kobolds.

Make more caves for world creation.

Well I abandoned the reaction/workshop for now, trying out Nobles since it looks like you just C&P and edit to fit society....

Here's what I have assuming it works

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now to test, at least the early guys.

Very nice! Added to the version, it'll be released in about an hour.

OKAY.  I got them working properly.

First, add [MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:FUR_MAT:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:FUR] to SKIN_TEMPLATE in material_template_default.txt.

Now add [ADD_MATERIAL:FUR:TANNED_FUR_TEMPLATE] to the bottom of [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS] in b_detail_plan_default.

Next, add the following to either material_template_default.txt or a new material_template file if you want to keep them seperate.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now create a new reaction file, and paste in:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lastly, create a new building file and paste in the following:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You should now be able to tan skin at the Furrier's Shop for fur, which can then be used to make leather goods at the Leatherworker's shop or turned into bedding at the Furrier's shop.

Beautiful!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Acanthus117 on April 04, 2010, 06:28:00 am
Why don't you add the responsibility of religion to the Witch Doctor? It would be a nice touch.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 06:44:53 am
Why don't you add the responsibility of religion to the Witch Doctor? It would be a nice touch.

Added! Let's see what happens, since they don't currently have religions. =p
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Acanthus117 on April 04, 2010, 06:47:09 am
Oops. sorry about that.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 06:48:46 am
NEW VERSION UP!

Oops. sorry about that.

Nope, I honestly want to see what happens. =p

On that note, should they use whatever the current [POWERS] equivalent is, or use their own gods? What do you guys think?

Also, how do I limit the metals kobbs can use?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.2 )
Post by: Acanthus117 on April 04, 2010, 06:56:02 am
Would you need help in making weapons? I would like to give them kobbs clubs and shit.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.2 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 06:57:57 am
Would you need help in making weapons? I would like to give them kobbs clubs and shit.

Of course! Have a look at those weapons I made for the kobbs too, please. I just chucked them together, but they're not ideal. If you can make heads or tails of these crazy new weapons RAWs, of course.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.2 )
Post by: Lofn on April 04, 2010, 07:05:48 am
I have a whole bunch of Aztec-themed weapons and items from a kobold mod I did for 40d - d'you want me to throw them up on pastebin for reference?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.2 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 07:14:34 am
I have a whole bunch of Aztec-themed weapons and items from a kobold mod I did for 40d - d'you want me to throw them up on pastebin for reference?

Please.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.2 )
Post by: Lofn on April 04, 2010, 07:22:41 am
I dunno how useful these'll be.

http://pastebin.com/kkcPtE6W
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.2 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 08:31:28 am
I'm adding slings. Can anyone tell me if they can see anything wrong with these?

Also, how do I do the whole "make them from leather / bullets from stone" thing? Would [CAN_STONE] work on the bullets?

Spoiler: Sling (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Sling Ammo (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.2 )
Post by: Lofn on April 04, 2010, 08:33:37 am
[CAN_STONE] only works for weapons - you'll need to add a couple of reactions if you want to produce leather slings and stone bullets.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 09:03:02 am
[CAN_STONE] only works for weapons - you'll need to add a couple of reactions if you want to produce leather slings and stone bullets.

I'll have to leave that to greater minds than mine.

On that note, new version up!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 09:26:09 am
Ladies and gents, what graphics do you want?

Spoiler: Choice Uno (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Choice Dos (click to show/hide)


Thank you to Deon / Beefmo on these amazing sprites. ;)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 04, 2010, 09:51:52 am
Uno was made by Gobbo, uno it is.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: robfd on April 04, 2010, 10:17:23 am
Uno(1)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: roqi on April 04, 2010, 10:25:02 am
Of course, it's got to be the Cutebolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Solifuge on April 04, 2010, 11:18:16 am
Hehe... I never noticed that someone made a full version of my alternate 'bolds:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/koboldz_b-1.png)

Glad to see that the new workshops are being put to good use. As for thinking up what sorts of weapons they'd have, think about their environment, and what they'd need to handle it. Being tiny guys, they probably would want to focus on ranged combat (blowguns, possibly with venoms, seem the best fit), spears (keep foes at a distance), and so on. As for economy, with the new Workshops, 'bolds could use Stonecrafting, since chipping a stone into a simple tool or decorative idol is fairly primitive, and it wouldn't allow them the feel-breaking skills of Masonry. Custom reactions could be made to use stonecrafting + flint/obsidian/other clastic stones to make blades and weapons too.

Has anyone dabbled with the Gypsum Plaster thing yet? I'm wondering if this could be twisted to allow 'bolds to make hanging fur walls for huts, etc.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 11:46:42 am
Hehe... I never noticed that someone made a full version of my alternate 'bolds:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/koboldz_b-1.png)

You should really fully sprite these, they're amazing and I thought they were Beefmo's. =p

Has anyone dabbled with the Gypsum Plaster thing yet? I'm wondering if this could be twisted to allow 'bolds to make hanging fur walls for huts, etc.

Gympsum plaster thing?

Of course, it's got to be the Cutebolds.

I'm an awful spriter. I can only recolour, and I'm not that good at that, even. Anyone any good and can finish off the Cutebolds?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: roqi on April 04, 2010, 01:23:45 pm
Of course, it's got to be the Cutebolds.

I'm an awful spriter. I can only recolour, and I'm not that good at that, even. Anyone any good and can finish off the Cutebolds?
I'm not an amazing spriter, but I can do it good enough. (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z309/vvan4/ryclaw.gif) What professions apart from medical ones need to be done?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 01:36:35 pm
I'm not an amazing spriter, but I can do it good enough. (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z309/vvan4/ryclaw.gif) What professions apart from medical ones need to be done?

(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx138/TheDevouringPlague/kobolds-1.png)

Quite a few. Especially specific professions like metalcrafting etc. AT the moment, the only metalsmith one there is is a kobold with a torch.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: roqi on April 04, 2010, 01:45:46 pm
I'm not an amazing spriter, but I can do it good enough. (http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z309/vvan4/ryclaw.gif) What professions apart from medical ones need to be done?

(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx138/TheDevouringPlague/kobolds-1.png)

Quite a few. Especially specific professions like metalcrafting etc. AT the moment, the only metalsmith one there is is a kobold with a torch.


Are kobolds supposed to have metalcrafting at all? Huh, I guess it'd depend on how primitive you want to play them (personally, I don't even allow them to cook).
By the way, we need wooden mechanisms remade.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Pathos on April 04, 2010, 01:50:52 pm
Are kobolds supposed to have metalcrafting at all? Huh, I guess it'd depend on how primitive you want to play them (personally, I don't even allow them to cook).
By the way, we need wooden mechanisms remade.

I usually just let them have whatever jobs they enter the map with, if they're non-standard ones. It's nice to see your camp slowly grow with kobolds who have abilities that you can't manually selects. Just one of those game mechanics I really appreciate with the kobold camp mod.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Kelbin on April 04, 2010, 03:22:45 pm
Aah! Kobolds NOT cute!

They are hairless brown skinned creatures with reptilian yellow eyes and arachnophilia.

They are about as cute as
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not to mention cruel bastards who torture and kill just for the fun of it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: roqi on April 04, 2010, 04:46:35 pm
Are kobolds supposed to have metalcrafting at all? Huh, I guess it'd depend on how primitive you want to play them (personally, I don't even allow them to cook).
By the way, we need wooden mechanisms remade.

I usually just let them have whatever jobs they enter the map with, if they're non-standard ones. It's nice to see your camp slowly grow with kobolds who have abilities that you can't manually selects. Just one of those game mechanics I really appreciate with the kobold camp mod.

Oh yeah, I do that too, I meant that cooking is not a permitted job in my games.
Do you have the raw that specifies what sprite is which profession, so I could tell what needs to be done?
Aah! Kobolds NOT cute!

They are hairless brown skinned creatures with reptilian yellow eyes and arachnophilia.

They are about as cute as
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not to mention cruel bastards who torture and kill just for the fun of it.


You obviously haven't been introduced to the idea of Cutebolds.
Sure, we all know what is the usual outlook on Kobolds, them being something inbetween an alien-minded Lizardman and a cruel, ugly Goblin. But! The idea behind this mod is to play a differently interpreted Kobs, who are a little, weak, primitive people, with childish yet clever minds.
Read at least the beginning of the old thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27088.0) to get an idea.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 04, 2010, 05:01:55 pm
I like the idea of kobb religion but I would added a noble called "Shaman" functioning similar to a priest,  witch doctors were all about curing witchcraft and healing,   Shamans tended to be heads of Religion, though really it seems the terms can be used interchangeably so I guess that's personal play style again.


Anyways, on a sidenote it seems as long as just one job is unavailable in overall skill group (such as Farming, which I believe covers plant gathering and butchery and a few others) the skill group itself disappears.

I noticed this the other night, also for the Kob-talk file check this link.   
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1944 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1944)
Thanks goes out to DFLang (it works I tested it)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: roqi on April 04, 2010, 05:31:27 pm
I like the idea of kobb religion but I would added a noble called "Shaman" functioning similar to a priest,  witch doctors were all about curing witchcraft and healing,   Shamans tended to be heads of Religion, though really it seems the terms can be used interchangeably so I guess that's personal play style again.

A witch doctor would be great together with a Chieftain.
Question: as I'll be making the sprites, should the doctors be white-coats-red-crosses style, or shamanic-healer style?

Anyways, on a sidenote it seems as long as just one job is unavailable in overall skill group (such as Farming, which I believe covers plant gathering and butchery and a few others) the skill group itself disappears.

Curses. I see three solutions:
a) Waiting for Toady to fix it;
b)Self-impose what labors to use;
c) or wait 'til some kind of Therapist or Manager side-program will solve the issue
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 04, 2010, 05:41:53 pm
For the Witch Doctor, the shamanic-healer types, though I wish you could change the name of a non-noble doctor, I'd rename them healers or something like that, maybe wiseman, or make wiseman be like the therapists of the tribe, that could be another noble, but I'll look into the other noble entries in the raws to see if I can set something similar to that.

Anyways yeah when I say witch doctor I mean the shamanic-healer types or if you go by older cartoons/books/the like  the guys who wear the masks and the grass skirts, or are pierced all over.

For the general "Doctor" I'd try and do much less outlandish form of the witch doctor, maybe in a long coat (of leather in my imagination)

ON RELIGION:
I say they're own gods, and maybe powers similar to forces like the elves.  I'd like to see a Kobold Sun god, as well as maybe some of the possible megabeast/titan worshipping.  (though in most of the world's I've genned there has only been 1 or 2 surviving kobold "tribes".
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: tfaal on April 04, 2010, 09:11:16 pm
You could combine the functions of the chief medical dwarf with the [RELIGION] tag. That would make for a pretty cool witchdoctor.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.165 )
Post by: LordFrank on April 05, 2010, 12:04:07 am
So, each time I try to make a world it gets to the placeing of civilizations then rejects the world and starts over. Anyone know how I can fix that? I'd really like to start tormenting some kobolds.

Make more caves for world creation.

That worked, thanks a bunch.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: The Eviscerator of Gods on April 05, 2010, 02:34:31 am
Is digging through stone okay if you only dig a tunnel to the underworld to dielive down there?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 05, 2010, 02:50:19 am
If you wanted, though if you wish to do the self-inflicted rules,  I noticed in Adventure Mode that most caves attach to the massive underground, so make way more caves than titans (Might affect megabeasts as well), make caves visible and embark on a cave site.

That way you can get to the underground and also not have to dig.

I'm trying to think of a tribal/primative-y sounding  stocktaker (broker) so that you can actually know how much stuff you have in stock, though I must say having the "guestimate" numbers for stock can lead to Fun.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: The Doctor on April 05, 2010, 03:09:00 am
Kick ass :D
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Solifuge on April 05, 2010, 02:16:47 pm
I gave Neo-Kobold Camp a shot, and it was pretty fun. I picked a cave site to embark on, hoping to get into the underground... but I didn't check legends first so the locals would be a surprise.

I prepped my 'bolds for a good 30 minutes, checking their personalities, and giving appropriate jobs. I had an archer/hunter, a fighter, an herbalist/doctor, a bonecarver/leatherworker, a digger, a woodcutter/carpenter, and a cook/butcher/fish cleaner. made sure to get plenty of food too.

I embarked right on a small hill, in which the cave was set (it was a little tunnel that wound through it) and the wagon had broken apart, spilling equipment everywhere. As the Kobolds scurried to gather their starting equipment, I saw a fire blazing across the field, as a dragon chased them all around, charring them.

I managed to designate a meeting area FAR away from the cave, and save 4, but a rapidly spreading wildfire threatened to engulf them all.

I assigned them all as diggers, and they dashed to grab shovels, and then dug a trench around a small island of land. They survived the fire in their 5x5 Eden, but soon thereafter ran off to get food to eat... and in so doing caught the attention of the dragon again. While she was chasing the Kobolds around, I assigned a new meeting area deep in the cave, and one lone Kobold, the Fisher/Cook, survived the onslaught and descended, shovel in hand. He bashed gremlins in the head with his shovel, stockpiled trinkets, and eventually found his way down to an Expansive underground cavern, half-flooded, and teeming with cave fish. Things were looking up!

He set about fishing for a while, and managed to avoid any dangerous denizens, but he was growing melencholy from the deaths of all of the others. In a bout of tantrumming, he ran off into the cave, and came up to a deep pit, covered in giant cave spider silk webbing. He managed to get himself tangled in a web, and the Giant Cave Spider living there made pretty short work of him... poor little guys.

As for bugs to report, I noticed that I wasn't able to bring any weapons unless they were autoassigned to the embark profile, since the WEAPONS option wasn't made visible (even though I had enough to cover the cost). Also, and this may be something related to the main game or the Fur beds, but I noticed the availability of fur as well as leather items... the stranger among which were Cave Fish Fur, and Lobster Fur.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Lofn on April 05, 2010, 02:21:34 pm
The fur issue is due to the method I used to add the fur material; by default it's assigned to all animals with skin, everywhere.  The alternative was going through step by step and adding the tanned_fur material to every single entry that should have it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: LordFrank on April 05, 2010, 03:47:34 pm
So I started a camp an things are gong great when I realize something. If I hold to the rules and dig only soil how do I get stone to make choppers? Also wouldn't it be fine for them to use copper if they could some how get their hands on it as they do use copper weapons in canon fortress?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Pathos on April 05, 2010, 06:37:01 pm
As for bugs to report, I noticed that I wasn't able to bring any weapons unless they were autoassigned to the embark profile, since the WEAPONS option wasn't made visible (even though I had enough to cover the cost). Also, and this may be something related to the main game or the Fur beds, but I noticed the availability of fur as well as leather items... the stranger among which were Cave Fish Fur, and Lobster Fur.

As someone else mentioned, the fur thing is pretty hard to avoid, without changing files that may get changed by another mod.

Not got a clue about the weapons thing, though. I just realised I had it too. Anyone know how to fix it?

So I started a camp an things are gong great when I realize something. If I hold to the rules and dig only soil how do I get stone to make choppers? Also wouldn't it be fine for them to use copper if they could some how get their hands on it as they do use copper weapons in canon fortress?

On stone: Feel free to dig out the sides of mountains etc. On copper: Of course. The trouble is trading for copper. I still haven't worked out how to only get metals of a certain quality, though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Pathos on April 05, 2010, 06:39:53 pm
Seperate post: Should I remove [ITEM_THIEF] from the kobold entity file and replace it with [BABYSNATCHER]? It allows them to actually survive worldgen, and fixes trading problems ( although I have yet to trade, due to how slow my computer runs with the new version ).

Also, does anyone want kobbs to have pets? And possibly more weapons? AND want more stone types to make weapons out of?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 05, 2010, 08:34:54 pm
I usually do the babysnatcher/item thief switch, because that allows them to trade with Gobbs if they survived world gen.

Pets would be nice,  and I have no clue how to assign "Sharp" or make stones usable for weapons.

And yeah not sure why they can't get weapons at embark, unless they need to have the "Weaponsmith" profession as a permitted job to make weapons.... in fact I'm gonna try that now.

Nope, adding Weaponsmithing (and later) Blacksmithing did not have weapons appear in the Embark options.

I'm wondering what it relies on then.    Might have to try later to throw in Metalcrafting ontop of all the metal based and see, but I'll do that later, got a storm coming in.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Acanthus117 on April 05, 2010, 09:38:48 pm
Hey, what if we had a sort of domestic animal that's like a large lizard? A komodo or something?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Warlord255 on April 05, 2010, 09:44:46 pm
Hey! A contribution here;

I have just confirmed through testing that in place of the CAN_SHARP tag, stones are eligible for CAN_STONE in weapon construction by having a MAX_EDGE entry, which overrides the stone template entry.

Obsidian has MAX_EDGE:20000, and we've confirmed that 10000 works while 5000 and below don't. Incidentally, we hit a bug where we made a sword out of silver ore, which has an edge of 10000 naturally from the metal template...

Point is, if you want to do stone modding to add more spear-able stones, then a value between 20000 and 10000 will work just fine on any old stone. Enjoy your 'bolding!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Chutney on April 05, 2010, 10:24:23 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
this is exactly how I assume kobolds work. This is the best story. I can't wait till the bugs in the version are fixed and the game becomes a little more playable.
This will be my first mod!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Acanthus117 on April 05, 2010, 10:25:47 pm
Hey, why don't we make a reaction in the woodcrafter's workshop to make a heavy wood good for clubs?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 05, 2010, 11:01:37 pm
Wonder if we can convince anyone to added in the FLINT clusters to chalk,  since FLINT is better for stone tools than chert itself, there's also a lower-grade FLINT called common chert.... though I guess if you follow the "No stone breaking rule" (which I do for the most part, less likely to break it now that you can do custom workshops) adding a CLUSTER stone is pointless, since I don't know how to set civs to trade boulders.

Also, from the looks of it the only workshops we know for sure can accept custom reactions, are the custom workshops,  the Tanner's shop, Kiln, Smelter,  and Kitchen.

We also know custom reactions can't get quality modifiers either yet.

Also adding in the rest of the metalsmithing metagroup didn't get weapons to show up, there has to be a reason, I might try and make a save where the humans are the playable civ and see if weapons come up (On DF .31)
actually I didn't add in "Armorer" as part of the full metalsmithing metagroup, someone else can try that if they wish.

EDIT:   Interesting thing I've noticed,  all of the civs that have nobles that are  "MILITARY_STRATEGY"  in one of the nobles positions (And Gobbs who have no Nobles but does have "Variable Positions:ALL" in the nobles area.)  can pick weapons at the embark screen, which makes me wonder if I need to add that to one of the nobles and see if that makes it appear.

EDIT2: Blast, didn't work, then again I changed the names but didn't change anything else.  I'm wondering if it's somehow hard-coded, or a side effect of taking caves instead of one of the other start sites.

EDIT3:  Well I never figured out why Weapons appear in the embark menu (In the vanilla game) for every other civ besides the Kobbs and the Animal Man.   But I did set up some military-based nobles so you can actually get the kobolds to stand and fight if you need them to.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Pathos on April 06, 2010, 07:35:09 am
New version up! We need more testers. Preferably ones with decent PCs.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Master on April 06, 2010, 08:45:19 am
Has anyone edited the graphics_whatever.txt file yet for any of those graphics sets?

What is in there right now is not all that helpful.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Pathos on April 06, 2010, 02:52:37 pm
Has anyone edited the graphics_whatever.txt file yet for any of those graphics sets?

What is in there right now is not all that helpful.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I suspect most people are avoiding graphics sets due to how completely screwed they are.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: sunshaker on April 06, 2010, 03:01:33 pm
I posted this in another thread and it was suggested that I post it here, so here you go.

Quote
I have a metal/mineral suggestion and it in part answers the question "where do the kobolds get copper if they can't mine/smelt/etc?" Nuggets of copper, silver and gold, these would be effectively pure metals that do not need processing to be used. It would work as a simple reaction that doesn't need fuel or other refining/processing methods to convert, the mineral would not have a metal_ore token, but would use a straight 1 stone = 1 bar custom reaction, value of the stone and the bar should be equal.

For more information see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_metal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Copper_Complex
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: sunshaker on April 06, 2010, 03:09:49 pm
Wonder if we can convince anyone to added in the FLINT clusters to chalk,  since FLINT is better for stone tools than chert itself, there's also a lower-grade FLINT called common chert.... though I guess if you follow the "No stone breaking rule" (which I do for the most part, less likely to break it now that you can do custom workshops) adding a CLUSTER stone is pointless, since I don't know how to set civs to trade boulders.

This is not technically correct. In petrology the term "chert" is used to refer generally to all rocks composed primarily of microcrystalline, cryptocrystalline and microfibrous quartz (meaning there is little or no distinction between "common chert" (aka chert), "chalcedony" (aka agate, aventurine, carnelian, chrysophrase, heliotrope (bloodstone), jasper, moss agate, mtorolite, onyx, sard, sardonyx, etc) and "flint"). The differences in "Chert" are caused by mineral impurities (which causes different colors and patterns), the more impurities there are in the "chert" the less useful it is for knapping (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzNIa-U5Nc), stones that are difficult to knap can sometimes be fire treated to improve knapability (basically you bake them in a camp fire). The list of knapable stones is rather long (pretty much anything with a conchoidal fracture pattern).
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 06, 2010, 03:22:54 pm
I will start testing and helping with this. Have you thought about the use of traps? It would probably lead to another community rule to not have people build drawbridges and such, but traps are no longer as effective as they were in the old version so I think it should have a look.

Fakeedit: bah Dffd went down, so I guess it will be a little bit till I can do any real testing :'(
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Binamrad on April 06, 2010, 03:40:55 pm
There is a way to make stone unmineable in this version.

As discovered in this thread: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53146.0 , if you change IMPACT_FRACTURE of STONE_TEMPLATE in material_template_default to 5000000 all rock (and soil, apparently) will become unmineable. I have no idea how this will affect weapons made of stone, though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Gobbo on April 06, 2010, 03:51:51 pm
As the creator of the original Kobold Camp, I commend you for taking up the mantle, and have some suggestions and additions to recommend:

1. Now that butchery and the like is so vastly expanded on, kobolds will probably rely on animals a lot more. I don't know if milking is indeed bugged like I heard it was but animals that can be milked, sheared, and butchered are probably prolific in kobold civilizations, a true staple of society. Making (or simply appropriating) some kind of shaggy beast that can simply be sheared or 'milked' (whatever the raws allow) for fur would be a good start, especially if that fur can then be used for bedding, light armor, clothing, etc.
1b. Further, kobolds should have the ability to tame all sorts of weird beasts without a noble (or perhaps should just get the Dungeon Master equivalent very early on). Just as they should be able to raise and milk weird beasts dwarves would never be seen with, they should also have the ability to train, tame, and even bring to embark a number of stranger creatures. Vicious beasts are going to be insanely important to keeping your camp alive, and just catching them in the first place will require your 'bolds to risk life and limb. Which brings me to...
2. Traps! Now that you can change reactions on any workshop, you can make wooden mechanisms (or perhaps limit them, since they'll be valuable, by requiring them to be made of bone or something, or multiple items all added together). That means that 'bolds can finally have access to traps, something fantasy kobolds almost always do, without needing to also have the ability to strip-mine. Even if the traps are limited to just primitive pit, cage, and spike traps, it would be a huge improvement.
3. Along those same lines, perhaps a larger focus on agrarian culture.
4. Variable weapons. Now that you can assign any weapon type, kobolds will probably go more for daggers, slings, blowpipes, and regular bows than battle axes and crossbows. I see you're already working on this though.
5. I know it's against popular demand, but please, assuming it works the same as before, leave in [item_thief]. Its biggest effect is counting exported goods as 'stolen'. This has the added effect of keeping your fortress's export wealth very low while still allowing trade, meaning you won't get waves of dozens upon dozens of migrants. Keeping a relatively low population and relying on breeding was a staple of the original mod's balance. Being flooded with kobolds makes it too easy, even as weak as they are.
6. Now that actual worthwhile caves are in, kobolds should be allowed to settle in them (with the obvious downside that they're usually infested with monsters). Though without smelting most of the ore will be useless, perhaps it would be beneficial to look into something to do with all those gems. After all, kobolds like shiny stuff!
7. Wooden weapons. Non-training weapons (especially spears and clubs) should be craftable from wood, now that it's a viable option. They won't be very good but sharp stone is fairly hard to come by.
8. You have custom workshops now, that can make virtually anything out of anything. Absolutely go wild with this. Fur furniture/bedding is a great start, but think of the possibilities. Bone weapons, bone furniture, scale armor, tooth-tipped arrows, bins made from skulls! Any creations focused around organic parts would be best, but really you can make anything into anything so it's just a matter of figuring out what you want at this point.

Good luck, and good work so far, it seems!

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3020/farmert.gif) (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/farmert.gif/)

EDIT: Oh, and apparently you can put critters both into and out of reactions? If true, this is a goldmine of possibilities for this mod. Requiring live critters to be used to make certain things, or producing critters out of it...
First thing that comes to mind is throwing some small critter into a workshop with a bunch of bone to make an armored version of the critter. But I'm sure with a little more thought, some ideas that are actually GOOD might come of it. ;)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.21 )
Post by: Intelligent Shade of Blue on April 06, 2010, 04:48:31 pm
For the Witch Doctor, the shamanic-healer types, though I wish you could change the name of a non-noble doctor, I'd rename them healers or something like that, maybe wiseman, or make wiseman be like the therapists of the tribe, that could be another noble, but I'll look into the other noble entries in the raws to see if I can set something similar to that.

Anyways yeah when I say witch doctor I mean the shamanic-healer types or if you go by older cartoons/books/the like  the guys who wear the masks and the grass skirts, or are pierced all over.

For the general "Doctor" I'd try and do much less outlandish form of the witch doctor, maybe in a long coat (of leather in my imagination)

ON RELIGION:
I say they're own gods, and maybe powers similar to forces like the elves.  I'd like to see a Kobold Sun god, as well as maybe some of the possible megabeast/titan worshipping.  (though in most of the world's I've genned there has only been 1 or 2 surviving kobold "tribes".

I'm pretty sure that you can change the names of every profession now for a race, so with the right profession tokens you could change the names of kob surgeons, bone setters, etc. In the last version, you were limited to changing the names of professions that had a corresponding (profession)_NAME token.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Pathos on April 06, 2010, 05:14:41 pm
<snip>

An actual post by gobbo. =O I feel sort've... Special. :3 I'm not sure on the whole "allowing kobbs to farm thing", unless I heavily rebalance farming to be hard as hell, ( which is a possibility, any thoughts on this anyone? ) but the rest definitely should be implemented - even if I don't have a clue how to do them. Make bone bars to make bone weapons?

On the note of implementing things, how does everyone feel about me implementing the Community Combat Balance Overhaul (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53100.0)? Or would you rather we waited until the next version?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Gobbo on April 06, 2010, 05:19:34 pm
I'm not sure on the whole "allowing kobbs to farm thing", unless I heavily rebalance farming to be hard as hell, ( which is a possibility, any thoughts on this anyone? ) but the rest definitely should be implemented - even if I don't have a clue how to do them. Make bone bars to make bone weapons?
On the note of implementing things, how does everyone feel about me implementing the Community Combat Balance Overhaul (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53100.0)? Or would you rather we waited until the next version?
I'll look into how to allow as many of these things as I can myself, but custom reactions should make it pretty easy to make weapons and furniture from bone without requiring them to be considered a faux-metal. You just need to tweak it properly.
As I understand it, farming is already difficult because it requires irrigation even on soil (though this is probably going to be changed soon as most people see it as a bug). I suppose very limited crops would be an alternative, or a dearth of seeds. In any case it can be left out if needed but I don't think it's any worse than fishing, which can provide pretty much infinite food in the right setting anyway. And farming takes more effort.

Another thought came up: maybe since butchering can yield blood now (I'm pretty sure?) we could allow the bolds to brew booze from blood.

As for combat, I think we should wait on the next version, since some oddities are deeper than that effort, however admirable, will be able to fix.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Master on April 06, 2010, 06:50:37 pm
5. I know it's against popular demand, but please, assuming it works the same as before, leave in [item_thief]. Its biggest effect is counting exported goods as 'stolen'. This has the added effect of keeping your fortress's export wealth very low while still allowing trade, meaning you won't get waves of dozens upon dozens of migrants. Keeping a relatively low population and relying on breeding was a staple of the original mod's balance. Being flooded with kobolds makes it too easy, even as weak as they are.

If that is the case then limit the population cap in the init file and modify the breeding values to suit the mod. There are better ways to limit population than forcing the [item_thief] tag IMHO.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 06, 2010, 06:57:45 pm
The Item theif forces your fort to maintain a low external appearance in the world which effects many more things then just migrants. also the goblins shouldn't be friends with the Kobolds, the whole point behind the Bolds is that they are a step above the animal men civs yet still below all other main civs leading to the worst of both worlds. and the point of Goblins is that they fight everyone.

I always looked at the traders from the Kobold Civ as being the Thieves returning from their tasks throughout the world.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 06, 2010, 07:20:42 pm
words I didn't read
Holy shitballs it's Gobbo!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Solifuge on April 06, 2010, 08:35:14 pm
EDIT: Oh, and apparently you can put critters both into and out of reactions? If true, this is a goldmine of possibilities for this mod. Requiring live critters to be used to make certain things, or producing critters out of it...
First thing that comes to mind is throwing some small critter into a workshop with a bunch of bone to make an armored version of the critter. But I'm sure with a little more thought, some ideas that are actually GOOD might come of it. ;)

Extracted Venom + Blowdarts = Poison Darts. Very Kobold, I should say.

I would support letting Kobold Camp evolve to make use of more of the new capabilities beyond just fur beds and whatnot too. I see them as weaker, trickier cousin of Goblins, who know how to milk every advantage they can get. Taming critters, building simple but devious traps, etc. are the stuff of Kobolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Haggle on April 06, 2010, 09:18:52 pm
Well in commemoration of Kobold Camp taking to the next Dwarf Fortress, I've decided to just post a graphic set I made way back when I found out about Kobold Camp. It's based off of Beefmo's work becuase I'm not good enough to start from scratch.

Hope you guys like them. I took inspiration from Gobbo's Kobold drawings.
Preview:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Download Here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2012) (becuase photobucket won't upload my images)

Edit: Didn't realize Tinypic changed the file type to .jpeg. I'm a terrible person.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: JFX09 on April 06, 2010, 10:28:52 pm
Toying around with
Code: [Select]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]

 I figure Bold's would have no problem eating anything and everything they can get their hands on...

 Also an idea/suggestion if plausible, a 2nd Kobold Race, same settings, different ethics. Replace Goblin Seiges with them (Gobo's wouldn't bother with runts like kobolds....but other kobs would surely do it?)

 Just an idea. Also I do agree on adding in farming, the kobs wouldn't have much skill in it sure, but if they can make wooden huts and process plants into drink, surely they can dig a hole and plop a seed in?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 06, 2010, 10:39:28 pm
those are awesome! do you have a non jpeg version? It sucks that Jpeg ruins images.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 06, 2010, 10:40:00 pm
I think the farming thing was originally to make it "tougher" as a "primative" culture not knowing about agrarian techniques yet.   I'm glad to see Gobbo decided they could garden now though, granted most of the KC is about self-limitations and how you personally see the kobbs.

On a sidenote, I'm wondering if a "bone sling" would actually mean the cradle is made of bone pieces, and the string sinew... though currently I'm working on the primitive workshop/space to make leather slings, granted they don't get quality bonuses like the bone and wooden slings at the bowyers.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Haggle on April 06, 2010, 11:02:41 pm
Yeah sorry about that Bloogonis, I wasn't sure where to upload and tinypic was the only image hosting site that was uploading anything for me.  :-[

Anyways, I have to say, this mod is awesome. Kobold Camp happened to be my most treasured mod before 2010, and I'm sure I'll be enjoying it just as much now that it's been remade. What with the new military improvements and all the new custom workshops stuff...

Also, are Kobold furs brown, grey or just hairless. I could never come to a conclusion. ???
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 06, 2010, 11:03:50 pm
I'll check the default  Creature_Standard text on Kobolds and get back to you on that, but I believe they have brown skin.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hermit_Blake on April 06, 2010, 11:04:45 pm
I thought the lack of farming was to do with them being strict carnivores.
Then again, the hell do I know I always played 'em as cute, weak, non-farming dwarves. :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 06, 2010, 11:07:50 pm
Actually you're right they were carnivores in the original mod I believe, my bad.

also judging by this
Code: [Select]
    [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
        [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
            [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BROWN:1]
                [TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
            [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:WRINKLY:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
                [APP_MOD_RATE:1:YEARLY:0:100:60:0:NO_END]
                [APP_MOD_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
        [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
            [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:PUPIL_EYE_YELLOW:1]
                [TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
the kobolds have brown wrinkly skin, and I didn't see a mention of hair in the apperance section.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: tfaal on April 06, 2010, 11:20:03 pm
Hey guess, did you know that if you make a stone's [IMPACT_FRACTURE] 5000000, it becomes unmineable? You could edit the stone_template in the  material_template_default file to that setting, then make specific exceptions in the material_stone file for soft stones like chert.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hermit_Blake on April 06, 2010, 11:23:21 pm
D'ya know if they're still carnivores, or if not how to make that true?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lairian on April 07, 2010, 12:08:51 am
Oh, wow, making me dust of my login for this site...

Hi all, avid proponent of Kobold Camp, from /tg/ to here.  I was running a communal fortress for a short while too, before the eminent new release sucked all motivation in favor of waiting for the "new" version.

Anyway, been working on graphics for a while to supplement that fortress, very much in the Cutebold/Gobbo style.  I'll have to add a whole new mess of them for the new jobs...

Let's see if I can figure out linking or uploading...

(http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/kobolds.png)
http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/kobolds.png (http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/kobolds.png)

The old graphics_mayday.txt for them was:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

but I don't know if/what that'll have to update to.  Hopefully they can be of use to the community!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 07, 2010, 12:10:46 am
D'ya know if they're still carnivores, or if not how to make that true?
Add [CARNIVORE] to the creature entry.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 07, 2010, 03:02:04 am
Alright this noble's entirely optional, but incase someone like the liason is needed to deal with the Kobbo trading/agreements with the tribe here's one.

I've yet to run a Kobb fortress to get the first Caravan actually so I have no clue if stuff works fine with the traders or not.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit:  Correcting spelling mistake
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Deon on April 07, 2010, 04:58:04 am
*messenger, not messanger :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Deon on April 07, 2010, 05:00:51 am
Hey guess, did you know that if you make a stone's [IMPACT_FRACTURE] 5000000, it becomes unmineable? You could edit the stone_template in the  material_template_default file to that setting, then make specific exceptions in the material_stone file for soft stones like chert.
Great idea :P. Now Toady (probably unintentionally) made a possibility for  Kobold Camp to be much more koboldly :P.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Gobbo on April 07, 2010, 05:15:46 am
Hey guess, did you know that if you make a stone's [IMPACT_FRACTURE] 5000000, it becomes unmineable? You could edit the stone_template in the  material_template_default file to that setting, then make specific exceptions in the material_stone file for soft stones like chert.
Ignoring any unforeseen consequences, this solves a lot of things. It makes it so you can dig through soil and make warrens, without being able to dig through solid stone. It makes it so you CAN make a few rare things from stone, but to do so you have to explore existing caves and caverns to find the 'soft' stone that can be so used (I'd argue, for the sake of Aztec Kobolds, that obsidian should count as something you can use). It also makes it so even if you can't harvest stone, you can still harvest gems, because Kobolds love shinies.
Encourages settling in caves, an option that wasn't really viable until this new, much-expanded cave system was added.
All things to consider.
Of course, in the end, everyone's Kobold Camp experience is merely based on a template, with changes made as they prefer them. We just need to make a majority-agreeable template, that's all.

Also, are Kobold furs brown, grey or just hairless. I could never come to a conclusion. ???
According to who?
The game paints them as small wrinkly brownish creatures, but I always pictured them (and thus, drew the associated Kobold Camp character set) based on them having very short, fuzzy gray fur.
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2619/wrestle.jpg) (http://img530.imageshack.us/i/wrestle.jpg/)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 07, 2010, 05:40:53 am
And I always saw your drawings (speaking off is it alright if I put up an Icon based on the drawing at the beginning of the thread) as them have a grey-smoothish skin, though with the way everything can be modded now, we could get the appearences of the kobb's text description to follow the gobbo way of cutebolds!

Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Haggle on April 07, 2010, 06:18:17 am
According to who?
The game paints them as small wrinkly brownish creatures, but I always pictured them (and thus, drew the associated Kobold Camp character set) based on them having very short, fuzzy gray fur.

I was just asking whether there was a standard view for kobolds. But it should be based off of how the player, or anyone would like to perceive them, didn't mean anything of it.

Yeah, and what Kaelem said. I always saw them as gray furred thanks to your drawings.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 07, 2010, 08:51:45 am
woops, yeah I have trouble spelling messenger for some reason

EDIT:  Nocturnal Schedual and boredom brings you more stuff!

So I made the primitive workspace and the reaction for the leather slings

the workshop
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
   
the reaction
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lairian on April 07, 2010, 11:03:04 am
I will always see kobolds as grey furred, thanks to Gobbo.

On the subject of new jobs that my graphics set lacks, I know medicine is new so can I get thoughts on medibolds?

(http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/doctorboldsbig.png)

Do we like BandageBold or SutureBold, and do we like little nurse caps?

...for that matter, can someone direct me to a list of the new jobs so that I can fill in gaps intelligently?

EDIT: while I'm at it, I made some slingers/master slingers, and need another quick poll...

(http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/slingerandshamanbig.png)

Shaman with feather headress...or Bozo the Clown?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 07, 2010, 11:14:23 am
They're cute!  as cutebolds should be.

also I made this for myself he other day but I'm sharing it.    However the Icon file is for. win xp/vista (I used IconFX to iconify it)

Obviously I did not draw the art use for the icon it is the picture from the start of the thread, though I did colorize it and add the KC to it.
I believe that means the art is  Gobbos.
http://www.filedropper.com/koboldcampicon (http://www.filedropper.com/koboldcampicon)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on April 07, 2010, 12:39:05 pm
I will always see kobolds as grey furred, thanks to Gobbo.

On the subject of new jobs that my graphics set lacks, I know medicine is new so can I get thoughts on medibolds?

(http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/doctorboldsbig.png)

Do we like BandageBold or SutureBold, and do we like little nurse caps?

...for that matter, can someone direct me to a list of the new jobs so that I can fill in gaps intelligently?

EDIT: while I'm at it, I made some slingers/master slingers, and need another quick poll...

(http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/slingerandshamanbig.png)

Shaman with feather headress...or Bozo the Clown?

LOVE the nurse caps, mabye they should be on all medics?
Kinda thinking for the bandagebold, just to make him ever cuter... make him hold a giant bandaid instead of a wrap. :D
suturebold might look better if there was a spool in one hand and a needle in the other.

the sling bolds look great, nice touch for the elite, a red feather might look good as well as the yellow.

 not a huge fan of the shamans headdress though, mabye something closer to this if possible
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lairian on April 07, 2010, 12:48:39 pm
LOVE the nurse caps, mabye they should be on all medics?
Kinda thinking for the bandagebold, just to make him ever cuter... make him hold a giant bandaid instead of a wrap. :D
suturebold might look better if there was a spool in one hand and a needle in the other.

the sling bolds look great, nice touch for the elite, a red feather might look good as well as the yellow.

 not a huge fan of the shamans headdress though, mabye something closer to this if possible
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Just-A-Nurse-Cap-'Bold was entirely for the purpose of showing it of and determining if all healthcare 'bolds should have them.  One vote for universal health caps, it seems.   ;D

I'll try to get a spool onto the suturebold; no promises, tiny things tend to get unintelligible.

Also in regards to the shaman's feather headdress, I was going for a look similar to the picture you posted, but with more color/Aztec bird of paradise feel.  I got a clown wig, which looks worse each time I see it.  Let me try the greyscale of the hat you posted...

EDIT:
Okay, KISS: the grey feathers did seem to help quite a lot.  Still not 100% feeling it, but much better.
(http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/religionboldsbig1.png)
Here are a few more options for the bonesetter and suturebold.  One is very band-aid, which is mostly inappropriate given that the bandage was to hold on a splint, but comical.
(http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/doctorboldsbig1.png)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Gobbo on April 07, 2010, 02:55:14 pm
I was just asking whether there was a standard view for kobolds. But it should be based off of how the player, or anyone would like to perceive them, didn't mean anything of it.
Er, I wasn't taking any offense, I just didn't know what standard you were going by.

As for the Witchy noble, how about something like this?
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8748/headhoncho.png) (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/headhoncho.png/)
I'm considering more facepaint, to suggest a skull.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lairian on April 07, 2010, 04:01:45 pm
Just something that I've noticed going through the raws (while trying to isolate why profession graphics are superceding noble graphics):

Unlike other kobold "nobles", warband marshals and warband leaders do not have their titles capitalized.

Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Shadowlord on April 07, 2010, 05:15:56 pm
The permitted jobs don't seem to be working - my kobolds only have available mining, carpentry, crossbow-making, wood cutting, all the healthcare skills, all hauling, architecture, alchemy, and cleaning. There doesn't appear to be any way to get food - no fishing or hunting. I think someone mentioned something earlier about something causing the menu they're in to not appear?

Anyways, I added the impact_fracture change to make stone unmineable to all [is_stone] rock except obsidian and tried it out: it worked! Stone was unmineable, and I was able to dig through soil, obsidian, and even dig out some gems (but not ore, apparently ore [IS_STONE] but gems must not be. Of course if you wanted certain ores to be diggable you could make it possible). It only took four lines because I first ported Kobold Camp 2010 to Uristmod (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53028.0). :P

(I also found and fixed a bunch of bugs in Uristmod last night while I was doing that :P)

So I embarked at the only volcano in the world and dug out my own cave in the obsidian. ^_^

I also moved fur to a new BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:KOBOLD_MATERIAL, in the hopes that by making only kobolds have it, it will make fur only appear on kobolds, but I haven't looked at it much yet to see how well it worked (I'm not actually sure how to), and I have no idea how it will interact with the added line about fur in [MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SKIN_TEMPLATE]. Actually, it seems like on the embark screen there were still skin items for every creature, probably because of that [MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SKIN_TEMPLATE] line.

P.S. It's a simple matter to exclude specific stone types from the impact fracture change. Each stone being excluded will only need one more line - obsidian's is ![STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:obsidian]

(This doesn't include the primitive workspace and reaction, or any graphics set or tileset, only what was in the KC2010 download and the two changes I mentioned above)

I've uploaded the Uristmod-ed version of KC2010 here:
(http://solidfiles.com/info_imgs/7alS.jpg) (http://solidfiles.com/d/7alS)

If you like it, you can work from it. One idea behind Uristmod (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53028.0) is that instead of having to check your modified raws against the DF raws every time DF updates, and try to find everything you may have changed, you have your changes right there, and they're likely to be applicable directly without being modified again. Another is that it can find things and change them en masse for you - like I did with the impact fracture change. (It can also install tilesets and graphics sets, and update saved games when you update raws)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lairian on April 07, 2010, 05:44:59 pm
Added skeletons and zombies to military, made a deadbold to set as standard.

Convert to .bmp using paint:
(http://lairian.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/kobolds-4-7-10-mk2.png)
and put it in a folder (called, say, koboldcamp) in ../raw/graphics/

Make a .txt file named graphics_koboldcamp.txt, and fill it with:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Make sure no other graphics packs draw kobolds, of course.  Will -not- work in the arena.

TODO: Lashers, blowpipes, threshers, glassmakers, strand extractors, siegebolds, drunks, and take suggestions of course.
Merge Gobbo's witchdoctor if people like, possibly change the Shaman to make the two more differentiable. Witchdoctor stolen shamelessly, unless asked not to.
Link slinger sprites to the slinger profession (need more knowledge on how the weapon was constructed in raws, will look up).

EDIT: spoiler tag hides txt file contents...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Haggle on April 07, 2010, 05:53:19 pm
If you like it, you can work from it. One idea behind Uristmod (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53028.0) is that instead of having to check your modified raws against the DF raws every time DF updates, and try to find everything you may have changed, you have your changes right there, and they're likely to be applicable directly without being modified again. Another is that it can find things and change them en masse for you - like I did with the impact fracture change. (It can also install tilesets and graphics sets, and update saved games when you update raws)

Yes! This definitely makes handling mods easier now, I don't know why I didn't run into this earlier. This is a god send as well, now that there are so many temporary bug fixes go around and so many exciting mods I'd like to mix together. (specifically Caesar's Spider Overhaul (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=53234.0) when he gets wolfspiders finished and Kobold Camp) :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Gobbo on April 07, 2010, 06:44:08 pm
This is looking promising. A scrimshawer's workshop to make bone furniture and other items would be nice, plus maybe some bone weaponry, scale armor, things like that.
Trying to make it myself made me realize just how different the new raws are, when my kobolds began producing Horse Nervous Tissue beds and the like.
(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5631/kobsprite.png) (http://img413.imageshack.us/i/kobsprite.png/)
Oh and here's the witchdoctor/chieftain if needed.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: twichyboy on April 07, 2010, 06:48:11 pm
is it only me or is everyone elses fur's catching fire and burning away at embark? oh and in order to let kobolds have embark pets is you have to add the [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PET] to their entity_default entry also made two new reactions, i havnt tested the create stone bullets one but the wooden club one works
Code: [Select]
[REACTION:PRODUCE_WOODEN_CLUB]
[NAME:make wood club]
[BUILDING:<whatever the buildings name is>:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:WOOD:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CLUB_PRIMITIVE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:WOODCRAFT]

[REACTION:PRODUCE_STONE_BULLETS]
[NAME:make stone sling bullets]
[BUILDING:<whatever the buildings name is>:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:STONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:15:ITEM_AMMO_SLING_BULLETS:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:STONECRAFT]
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 07, 2010, 06:50:53 pm
Welp. Just got a world with 80 rejects. Come on.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lairian on April 07, 2010, 07:00:05 pm
Oh and here's the witchdoctor/chieftain if needed.

I've merged the witchdoctor into the graphics set above, and added him to the relevant line in the suggested .txt file.  I hope you don't mind.

I'll think about how to differentiate the shaman, or come up with a wholecloth replacement.

is it only me or is everyone elses fur's catching fire and burning away at embark?

Is THAT what exploded into smoke when I picked "Embark Now!"?   :D

Welp. Just got a world with 80 rejects. Come on.

Make worlds with custom parameters, and double your mountain and non-mountain caves.  That fixed the eternal rejects problem for me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Shadowlord on April 07, 2010, 07:01:55 pm
Take the medium island and turn up the number of nonmountain:mountain caves to 40:80 and worldgen should go smoothly. (For the others, multiply the number of caves appropriately)

The non-island maps will probably be more likely to work unmodified, since they have far larger numbers of caves than the island maps, I expect.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 07, 2010, 08:43:29 pm
is it only me or is everyone elses fur's catching fire and burning away at embark?

Yeah, i think that happened to me.

Also, I'm getting Raw Nothing's That appear as dwarf's in my food stockpiles, which freaked me out at first.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: twichyboy on April 07, 2010, 08:47:18 pm
I saw the [nothings] on the embark choose items screen, i think its when it tries to give you some sot of meat and its unavailable, but it for some reason doesn't just remove it,
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 07, 2010, 08:48:54 pm
I saw the [nothings] on the embark choose items screen, i think its when it tries to give you some sot of meat and its unavailable, but it for some reason doesn't just remove it,

I did too, but i didn't CHOOSE any, but i still ended up with them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 07, 2010, 09:04:08 pm
Dammit, I just came to post this!
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8966/kobbcamp.png)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 07, 2010, 10:05:50 pm
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)

The dwarf's are the nothings in my food stockpile.

I have to start over anyways, the Kobold with leader/teacher skill DIDN'T get the leadership spot, so no labor assignments.

And my cave was looking so organic.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 07, 2010, 10:13:37 pm
Say, what happened to turtles? They may be causing it
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 07, 2010, 10:20:16 pm
Perhaps it has something to do with the angler mod that's been added in?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lairian on April 07, 2010, 10:52:36 pm
Perhaps it has something to do with the angler mod that's been added in?

I wouldn't be overly surprised; the angler mod simply hemorrhages errors to the logfile...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 07, 2010, 10:55:41 pm
Holy crap, it sure does. Hmmmm, Should be able to just delete it straight outta mah raws without screwing anything up. Methinks.


Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Squeegy on April 07, 2010, 11:00:10 pm
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/307/kobbcamp2.png)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/4lrgcg.gif)
Fisherbold just sits there fishing while everyone else starves.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: twichyboy on April 07, 2010, 11:02:14 pm
yeah its the angler mod i just tested it, removing it straight from the raws has gotten rid of the [nothing] unit selection,
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 07, 2010, 11:12:20 pm
yeah its the angler mod i just tested it, removing it straight from the raws has gotten rid of the [nothing] unit selection,

Same, No more nothing's.

Time to Rock, er, chop?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Chariot on April 08, 2010, 12:27:16 am
The version of angler mod Pathos included is made for 40d, not 31.01, which would explain the errors.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 08, 2010, 12:29:07 am
The version of angler mod Pathos included is made for 40d, not 31.01, which would explain the errors.

Figured as much, have you created a version for 31.01?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Chariot on April 08, 2010, 12:31:17 am
Not yet. I started on zoo mod then got distracted rewatching a bunch of Stargate Atlantis seasons with my sister ::). I should probably do angler mod before that since it's much smaller.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 08, 2010, 04:46:55 am
You know I was wondering WHY I got smoke on embark.... So it's the fur, must have a low boiling/ignition/Melting? point.

I like the Witchdoctor with the face paint and staff, though for Chieftain I think we need something that stands out better, but I can't think of what.

Also yeah I thought the noble names automatically got the words capitalized, I should fix that.  Also the S.I.T.  needs the appointed by fixed it still says "Druid" should say "SHAMAN"
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Shenanigans on April 08, 2010, 09:00:59 am
Can anyone tell me how to quickly re-add a few jobs, only tanning and butchery, unless its in there already. am new to modding.

cheers anyway.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 08, 2010, 09:16:01 am
Can anyone tell me how to quickly re-add a few jobs, only tanning and butchery, unless its in there already. am new to modding.

cheers anyway.

Not yet sure, but i'm going to look into it, seeing as how you need hunting to catch animals, butchery to get their meat and skin, tanning to turn the skin into leather, which goes in to the custom furs building.

EDIT: It's pretty easy, go to entity_default in the raws, go to the kobolds section, and put these lines in with the rest of the like ones:
[PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]

EDIT2: Hmm, something is wrong, NONE of the noble positions behave as a manger position, meaning labor assignments are problems.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: EuchreJack on April 08, 2010, 06:55:23 pm
I remember reading somewhere about Kobolds disending from Dragons.  So, maybe rulers could breathe fire and be huge?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lairian on April 08, 2010, 07:25:53 pm
I remember reading somewhere about Kobolds disending from Dragons.  So, maybe rulers could breathe fire and be huge?

This is a terrible idea invented by Wizards of the Coast with no historical or mythical basis.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 08, 2010, 07:36:38 pm
Adding:
[RESPONSIBILITY:MANAGE_PRODUCTION] (in entity_default.txt)

To one of the existing noble positions  (Or creating your own with it) will allow you to use one as a manager so you can assign labors/ use the job manager screen.

EDIT: Or not...
Job manager comes in, but i still can't assign labors.

Does anyone else know what i need to change for that?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 08, 2010, 10:49:05 pm
if you're refering to the  v-p-l (I think) command set up,  the only way to get those to show up is to have all of the skills in the metagroup to be enabled, if one is not in it doesn't show up.   So your option at that point is using the current partial release of Dwarf Therapist,  if you mean to assign jobs via the manager screen, I've not messed with that yet as with the current bug of working till they're dehydrated/Hungry, then to death is in,  large orders are not that wise... nor is setting a task to repeat.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Intelligent Shade of Blue on April 08, 2010, 11:21:51 pm
I remember reading somewhere about Kobolds disending from Dragons.  So, maybe rulers could breathe fire and be huge?

This is a terrible idea invented by Wizards of the Coast with no historical or mythical basis.

That's right. In pretty much everything else besides D&D 3.0 and its descendants (though, while I might be wrong, I think they were reptilian in the AD&D 2nd Ed Monstrous Manual), kobolds are usually described as having canine like features, or at least having some fur.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 08, 2010, 11:35:00 pm
I thought in D&D it was Dragon/Dog hybrids.

However that doesn't matter, cause these guys aren't releated to the D&D Kobolds or the Germanic Sprites they originally came from, they're there own version!
however... here is one of the Great and Fallible wiki's opinion on D&D Kobolds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29)

Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Intelligent Shade of Blue on April 08, 2010, 11:37:50 pm
I thought in D&D it was Dragon/Dog hybrids.

Depends on the edition. The only dog-like thing they have left is a sort of yipping accent. They're little scaly humanoids now who hate gnomes and love traps. The dragon thing typically is just a belief they have. Most of them aren't really connected to dragons at all... I can't speak for their 4E fluff, though. Playing the Pathfinder RPG (some would call it 3.75) instead.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Master on April 08, 2010, 11:40:27 pm
I thought in D&D it was Dragon/Dog hybrids.

Depends on which version. v1 and v2 had them as lizard people. v3.0 had them as dragon kin and v4 has them as dog like people.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Haggle on April 08, 2010, 11:44:48 pm
if you mean to assign jobs via the manager screen, I've not messed with that yet as with the current bug of working till they're dehydrated/Hungry, then to death is in,  large orders are not that wise... nor is setting a task to repeat.

I've yet to get a dwarf die due to a task being on repeat.
Must mean I'm not working them hard enough...

Also I'm pretty sure this same kobold discussion was in the old Kobold Camp thread. I think this is why Toady left them almost like blank slates in the raws.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Intelligent Shade of Blue on April 08, 2010, 11:44:58 pm
Okay, while I don't have my 1st & 2nd Ed AD&D books handy, I can (after dusting off the books) say for sure they're still small reptilian humanoids who worship dragons in 4E. The dog-like kobolds are a thing of the past for D&D, though look at WoW and other RPGs to find furry kobs.

Anyways, apologies for jacking the thread into D&D land.

Has anyone put thought into DF kobold religion yet?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 08, 2010, 11:48:51 pm
There was a short discussion earlier in the thread, then I think something else caught people's attention.

My thoughts were forces and maybe some of their own gods...   (Would a Sun god be a force or a regular god?)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Intelligent Shade of Blue on April 09, 2010, 12:04:21 am
I think pantheon might be the only way to go now, as I'm not sure forces are moddable yet (which is why the elves' forces all are associated with rivers and forests or whatever).
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 09, 2010, 04:03:57 am
If that's the case, then okay.

So anyone working on porting it to 31.02 (as easy as it might be, 'cept for the code-fixes, there were a few raw fixes and stuff included)

Also anyone gonna edited the kobold descriptors to match the Cutebold style kobb?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 09, 2010, 07:48:53 am
Inspired by Kobold Quest, I had been thinking that it might be interesting to give Kobolds Pets which are specific to their civilization: Bugs. The idea would be that the cave dwelling kobolds breed and keep a variety of insects for use around the home, like in Toady's earlier game where you played a Kobold using poisonous bugs to defend your cave from adventurers.

The bugs could be organized into Castes with a Breeder (female) caste, a Drone (male caste) & a variety of other non-gendered castes which have different functions. Shamblers could be large and serve as food/beasts of burden/mounts, Stalkers could be small slightly venomous Verminhunters, Rippers could be Warrior bugs slightly smaller than kobold size & Firebrands could be small bugs which spray out a scalding hot mild poison at enemies.

I know the goal of Kobold Camp is to increase the difficulty and having a variety of pets might make it easier, but I also think that they increase the interesting Flavor of Kobold civilization & provide for interesting new reactions.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Haggle on April 09, 2010, 09:29:07 am
Also anyone gonna edited the kobold descriptors to match the Cutebold style kobb?

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I indeed do have a description for my kobolds which I tried to get as close to kobolds in Gobbos pictures.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's in the spoiler below in case you want it, but it's not perfect. I'm still thinking on adding a few things like a tail description... or something. If you are going to use it, remember that it goes into the creature_standard.txt in the objects folder. Just replace everything from [CASTE:FEMALE] and below in the kobold entry with this junk. :-\

Oh, btw. The god he worships is associated with caverns... becuase that's what kobolds like, right?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 10, 2010, 02:23:03 am
I was thinking the light grey furred versions.  However, what did you set up the kobb religion with....or wait is that in your spoilered raws -double checks-
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Pathos on April 10, 2010, 10:26:11 am
If anyone wants to take over, feel free. I'm not that great a modder. =p
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Haggle on April 10, 2010, 11:16:08 am
I was basing all my descriptive efforts off one of gobbo's kobold images.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think it would be best that I just post my entire kobold entry from the creature_standard.txt, and just give you a download link to a .txt with the entry in it.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I added a +1 to their disease_resistance and gave them 4 fingers instead of 5. Their linguistics is also -3 instead of unattainable.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

download (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2053)

Also I associated my kobold's religions in the entity_default.txt with food, hunting, the moon (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2388/moongiftbn1.gif), dance, jewels, blight, caverns... and rainbows.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 11, 2010, 11:45:46 am
So who's gonna take over?  I'm only good at doing bits and pieces... plus I'm not sure how exactly to use DF 31.02 changes in conjuction with the various raw changes in the main mod.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lofn on April 11, 2010, 04:11:01 pm
I may slightly kinda maybe be sorta interested in taking over, but I don't know that it would be such a great idea.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 11, 2010, 05:06:42 pm
Nobody NEEDs to take over. Why don't we all just contribute, and Pathos manages it (If he want's to).
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 12, 2010, 01:29:21 am
Well, I've been toying around with modding and ended up loading up much of the content given by this thread for 0.31.02, graphics playing no small part. The details are in the DFFD description.

As for the graphics, I ended up using Haggle's sprite sheet - I'm one who's used to seeing them as greyish, but Haggle's seems most complete and still follows a good style I think. Though, I did have to move some kobolds around the bmp and tweak it (modding the graphics in was like pulling teeth. I'd barely change anything and it would all fall apart, I still have no idea why, but I stopped touching it as soon as it worked.)

Aside from the rambling, if I've used anyone's work that they wish for me to remove (or one Pathos feels like I'm stepping on his toes by hijacking this) just let me know and I'll take appropriate action.

All that said, for those who care to give it a whirl, the link:  http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

And as mentioned in the desc, if there's a problem, give me a tipoff and I'll see about fixing it.

EDIT: OH I forgot to plop a general question out there: I've ran through a good number of bold forts, several of which lasted a year and should have at at least one measly caravan come by. Yet I've NEVER seen one, be it the raw version of pathos' mod or mine or any point inbetween. It's just been about 3 waves of migrants that get me to about 20 kobolds before stopping entirely with no attractions, and that's the extent of outside world contact. My elongated question being, is the lack of caravans an isolated incident that no one else has had, or just all around? And yes, I've made a habit of checking neighbors before embarking, so the lack of other civ's isn't a problem.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 12, 2010, 02:54:42 am
You might not be getting carvans because of item thief, I could be wrong though, you also don't have a hoardmaster/liason, but I have no clue if a liason is a requirement for caravans,  since I know the Gobbs don't have one but can trade if they're not trying to kill the kobbs.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: tfaal on April 12, 2010, 03:15:25 pm
Hey Haggle, just so you know, anything outside of brackets in the raws is a comment; changing "unattainable" to "---" isn't going to have any effect. To make that difference work, edit the MENTAL_AT_RANGE:LINGUISTIC_ABILITY tag and change the arguments from zero to something else. I'd recommend copying the values for memory.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 12, 2010, 04:01:30 pm
Thanks for the ideas Kaelem, but I've had no luck. Item thief has been on and off for me, and I do have a hoardmaster (under a different name anyhow). I put in a liason to see how it goes, but all he managed to do was keep interrupting me for a caravan that never comes.

It would be beneficial though to know, so I mention again, if someone could confirm whether or not they've ever gotten caravans with a kobold civ (though the caravan could be from any race) so I know if it's just me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 12, 2010, 04:09:01 pm
Lagotrope, This is AWESOME. Just started out, and i'm lovin' it.

Only issue is my hunter, despite having a quiver, and arrows in his quiver, still want's to bash the deer to death. But i'm pretty sure that's just one of the MANY bugs with hunting right now.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 12, 2010, 04:19:27 pm
Glad to hear you like it, Calhoun~ but yes, I believe even dwarves do the same stuff, hunters have always been abysmal at logistics. If I recall right, there's also an issue in which if you equip them with shields, they'll pay little mind to the finely crafted sword in hand and start bashing each other with said shields.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 12, 2010, 04:44:46 pm
Heh, well I have a Witch Doctor for a reason.

I'll keep you posted about any caravan's (As the camp progresses)

EDIT: It seems that deer are tough opponents for Kobolds, As he's already a a Master fighter and swordsbold, though using his bow he'll never do more than bruise.

EDIT2: Ugh, i forgot about the hospital zone removal crash bug. Lost it all. Blech, will play again soon, but not today.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: roqi on April 13, 2010, 12:56:42 am
IMHO it could be that the caravan gets killed on the way, it happened WAY too often in te previous version. Try embarking just next to a kobold cave and see if it helps
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 13, 2010, 01:53:52 am
WHICH previous version? Like 23a? Cause as far as I'm 99% in 40D (And 31.01/.02) Caravans are generated.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 13, 2010, 02:11:45 am
I've been reading other forums and It seems Carvans take longer to show up now.    Even on dwarves,  someone said upward of 3 years I think before they got there first caravan, though that's not entirely true I got one in late autumn (vanilla DF) on a dwarf fort, but It had no wagon.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: roqi on April 13, 2010, 04:37:07 am
WHICH previous version? Like 23a? Cause as far as I'm 99% in 40D (And 31.01/.02) Caravans are generated.

Really?  :o
I'm pretty sure that in previous Kobold Camp caravans not always arrived, too. And I think that one can find caravans moving around in adventure mode.
Could be entirely wrong, though, I'm not certain about this.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 13, 2010, 05:03:34 am
Indeed, as of 40d, the caravans I'm also sure were spawned as needed. Seems like it'll be awhile before Toady gets caravans moving on the map again, so I doubt getting killed on the way was a problem now. Strange you had trouble with previous version caravans as well, Roqi, I usually had them coming regularly. Although that's good to know Kaelem, since I hadn't ran too many forts past 3 years. I did it again just awhile ago through the first three years though, still nothing, so I'm just thinking there won't be any trading in this mod version. Thanks everyone for input. Moving on, then...


I've just put up a newer version using DF 31.03, and apparently removing zones with buildings inside has been fixed. Link is http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

As for differences with the kobolds, I've added in wooden mechanisms as a big part, other stuff is in the changelog at the above link.

Today I spent quite a bit of time looking at reactions, but it was rather disappointing in that most of what I found out is what I CAN'T do. I'll keep looking around, and some may be possible, some things may be hardcoded too deep. Since it's not in the changelog or dffd page, I'll mention my rambling intentions here.

First off, vermin reactions. I've been able to -produce- vermins out of a reaction as a product, but I don't know how to use vermins as a reagent. Not entirely sure though what I'll do once I do figure it out, perhaps use the custom workshop as a butcher for vermin, since fishing and hunting only works for so large a population (the kobolds are [bonecarn] in this mod, agriculture is for brewing/clothmaking mostly.

Then there's poison, the most disappointing I found. I had it all laid out, you'd capture a poisonous vermin, go extract the poison and combine it with any wood to create a seperate wood entry that had syndrome attached. This wood could/would/should have been used to create trap components that poison an enemy on contact. However, this only seemed to work in the case of say the coal mod, in which it (as far as the game was concerned) literally blew up to create the gas. A material normally, however, cannot pass sickness to someone even with [SYN_CONTACT], even slashing through them. It generally was made to be passed through organic injection via creature attacks, I suppose. I'll still keep an eye out for ways to make trap components more interesting than a few different stats of the same fundamentals, though.

Also, [SLOW_LEARNER] and [SKILL_RATE:#:#:#], which the wiki insists exists, never seemed to change anything. Would have like to add that in for a bit more challenge, perhaps it'll be fixed in these weekly updates.

That's it for things that should have been but weren't. Again, I'll keep a mind on those, but till then I'm going to move to reactions that I DO know how to make work, and will likely move onto a Scrimshawing building, maybe a way to make more shovels since, without trade, what you start with is all you get.

This ended up a lot longer than I thought though, so I'll wrap it up. Again, comments are welcome, and given that it's 3 AM to make a very likely chance that I screwed something up, let me know about any problems and I'll fix it asap.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 13, 2010, 06:05:20 am
You know I'm looking through your raws and I'm noticing you have the Kobolds  Prog-trigger-trade to 0 instead of 1,  I think that makes it so they never show up in this version, I could be wrong though.

I'm gonna turn it on and see if I get a kobold trader

Actually compairing to dwarves in DF 2010, it might be the fact that you actually have a progress trigger set up,  I'm gonna try removing the progress trigger for that  kobbs and see what happens.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Gobbo on April 13, 2010, 07:47:54 am
I feel a bit distant from the new version at the moment so I'm afraid I can't comment too in-depth, but you're right on track with the quick-maturation aspect of Kobolds.
In fact, in the original version, a Kobold went from baby to child at age 1 year, and child to adult at age 2 years.
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1855/inappropriatejridis.png) (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/inappropriatejridis.png/)
2 years from birth to full adulthood. Kobolds grow up quickly -- largely out of necessity.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 13, 2010, 10:34:29 am
Awesome work, Lagotrope. Downloading now.

Not quite sure how i feel about being able to use mechanisms, but I s'pose i don't Have to.

Glad to see the age's drop. Seems bettter that way.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 13, 2010, 01:27:27 pm
Indeed, the quick adulthood this time was actually based on the old kobold camp. I especially wanted it this way in part because the [litter_size] tag is gone, so kobolds only give birth to 1-3 (never seen 4 anyway), as opposed to the 2-6 in classic kobold camp.

And to be honest Calhoun I'm not sure how I feel about mechanisms either, ideally I could have limited the uses to plain, simple traps instead of linked levers and pressure plates and such things. Instead I'm leaning to making mechanisms harder. Either have to make them out of bone, or make them difficult to make (5% chance of success, so you'd have to consume a lot of wood to get each one) with a higher success rate using bone.

And you may be right Kaelem that having the kobolds have progress triggers set up may conflict with them coming to you, since dwarves normally don't have those. According to the wiki, the range goes from 0-5, the lower values indicating lower requirements of population, production etc. Theoretically from that, it means something would come to you immediately with 0 instead of a little bit with 1. All this was something I wanted to test out, but then I noticed 31.03 was out I got impatient. There'll be more tweaks anyhow. If you find out something new, it'd be one less thing on my mind.

Thanks for the feedback, everybody (and I love your cutebold strips, Gobbo.)

Edit: I just reread the posts here now that I'm actually awake, and have realized that all this time I thought that the tags [BABY:1][CHILD:2] would mean they would go from birth to child in 1 year, then child to adult in 2 years after they became children, leading to a total of 3 years from birth to adulthood. God knows why I thought it like that. Kobolds in this version go from birth to adulthood in 2 years, not the 3 that the changelog would have one believe.

Double edit: And 0.7 (it jumped a few) is up. Most significant changes are that mechanisms now have a very low (6%) chance of success. It's a crude fix, but certainly makes one think twice about making say a water reservoir (which requires 6 mechanisms, ir around 100 wood barring good or bad luck).

Also added a scrimshawer, from which you can craft weapons (mostly shovels), though the effectiveness in battle is untested. Also added bone armor, including shields and helms. Both use shells, and given that shells may be easiest to come across via turtles, I couldn't help but picture it...

(http://i42.tinypic.com/19ul5l.jpg)

It's a shame you can't have them use throwing hammers.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 14, 2010, 03:09:25 pm
Great stuff. About the Mechanisms, It seems they are more of a representation of mechanical know-how rather then then an actual part. With DF Bolds fluff having them as being trap users it makes sense that they would use them. but just like with digging it would require the restraint of the player.

That being said, the less restraint needed on the players end the better, has the Stone shatter thing to make it hard to dig into rock been done yet? I volunteer my time if it hasn't. (Edit: derp, I see that it has)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hikaratu on April 15, 2010, 09:07:55 pm
Loving the mod, I played 40d 'bold camp tons, and I'm liking the 2010 iteration of it alot as well. Now that that's out of the way, can anyone explain this? I couldn't get him for the life of me to drop the pond grabber tunic/rope reed loincloth, he was just picking up the stuff I assigned him to wear and droppign it, then walking away from the pile and back to it and repeating the process. I spotted the [Wear over clothing] option and switched it to [Replace clothing] while slapping myself in the forhead, expected him to replace the old stuff with the specified stuff instead he wore the specified stuff along with the old stuff AND an additional set of the specified stuff. I also did Exact matches instead of partial matches just before that but that didn't change anything. The kobold is currently training happily with this equipment setup o.o;;

(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l124/Hikaratu/uhhh2.png)

(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l124/Hikaratu/uhhh.png)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 15, 2010, 09:53:37 pm
I've had similar issues, at least with weapons. I think the whole equipment dropping AI is rather borked at the time, and the fact it has to do with military makes it doubly so. Normally I'd suggest trying out dumping his stuff, and that would work if this were 40d, but after a quick try I confirmed that no longer works for the time being. It stinks, but at the time I'd chalk it up to being one of the issues with the current release.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hikaratu on April 15, 2010, 10:06:34 pm
Yea I tried dumping and everything, I was used to equipping stuff in 40d, but as you say it doesn't work now. I guess I'll just deal with the buggy equipment system for this release. Fortunately I think him managing to triple layer his clothing is probably more helpful than hurtful xD
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 16, 2010, 03:48:52 am
Alright, got 0.8 up tonight with, once again, the link. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

Mechanisms are upped to 10%, but the most notable changes are more buildings/reactions. I added in training buildings for healthcare and weapons (healthcare stolen shamelessly from Deon, who may let me know if he'd like it removed which I doubt since he uploaded the healthcare files seperately, and weapons I made from scratch but the concept was still, as far as I can tell, his). The healthcare training I feel was rather necessary since, if your doctor actually gets to a level that isn't malpractice, it probably means the whole camp died.

I also got around to a couple critter reactions, doubly effective in that you won't need refuse piles filled with remains. Oh, and you can cook them for food (testing only yielded iron chops out of roaches, whatever those were. But they were edible and that's what counts). More reactions on vermin may come, depending what I can do. In any case, that's about it for the core reactions.

As for what's next (writing it down half for myself just so I don't forget), I should change the look of a couple buildings that I copy-pasted so they don't all look samey. I still need to set up a fort with a buncha traps and bring an adventurer over to make sure the traps work semi-effectively, and in proportion to each other based on how many mats they use.

I would like to add in some more fluff besides sets of bone reactions that separates kobolds as kobolds, not just primitive diminutive dwarves. An attempt at making specialized creatures as tamable (mounts?) or just use in general. Definitely feel kobolds could stand to be attached to some creature like war dogs. After starting a fort for longer than testing a reaction or 10, it was only winter (or maybe just 1 year had passed) and I got ambushed by 16 elves that mowed through me. Of course I wouldn't have it much other way, and it did seem to be the exception as I've never had such an attack that early, it could get tiresome to have what's effectively a time limit on your fort if you don't have ways to defend.

Maybe different categories of reactions, more cultural sounding weapons (perhaps stone/obsidian aztec style weaponry?) and while I'm at it, food and furniture.

Currently there's a lot of potential for agriculture. I mean, they can grow it, but I'm attached to [BONECARN], as it makes a challenge to get food at higher pops when the fish start dwindling. But as a result, there should be more reason to grow plants, moreso than booze and loincloths.

Anyhow, that's the stuff off the top of my head. Starting to give it much thought now, I'm approaching the one point oh, and I'd like Version 1.0 to be synonymous with Final Version.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Skie on April 16, 2010, 07:26:53 am
Mechanism success rates and building success rates are a great idea. I think I may have to employ (ie steal) that idea for my sergal mod.
Nice to see that progress is being made. I'll give this a try at some point and maybe poke the raws with my eyes for more ideas for my own mod.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Ampersand on April 16, 2010, 08:38:59 am
This may only be very tangentially related, but look what I found.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GRatedSex

See: Trope picture.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 16, 2010, 10:48:54 am
Whew, Lagotrope, You're on a roll. I can hardly keep up. I haven't had much time to play recently,but soon (a week or so) i should have plenty of spare time for some (hopefully) long-term camps.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Deon on April 16, 2010, 01:01:29 pm
I've put your mod on the Mod list on the wiki:
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:List_of_mods

This page was really lacking :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 16, 2010, 03:09:14 pm
GAH!!! shame on you Ampersand (grumble grumble tvtropes grumble)

I was trying to work out why they wont trade, is it possible that the civ entity is missing something? also is it possible that the home-civs aren't surviving and this is having an effect?

Throwing weapons are possible, at least they were, make a ranged weapon whos melee dameage and name are the some as the ammo that way they toss them till they have one left(the actual weapon) but ranged weapons are still a little bugged aren't they.

Spoiler: example (click to show/hide)
I dont know how this will function at all in 2010 or how the damage system works but this is sort of how I did Javelins in my 40d one

Edit: just tessted Copper toss hammers and they seem to work in arena, except they train spear user... :-\

Edit2:whoops It appears that I somehow put my Throwing Hammers into the middle of the primitive spears... I have no clue how I did that. it works fine
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Solifuge on April 16, 2010, 03:19:32 pm
Is the related skill set to "Spear"? You may be able to set it to "Throwing". Also, I was pondering something like this, but had a clunkier solution using a Bandolier "Weapon" that was equipped, and fired throwing knives/hammers, etc. It worked for the AI too, but was a strange abstraction, since the Bandolier shouldn't have been held in a hand, and I was hoping to be able to use it 1-handed.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 16, 2010, 03:46:53 pm
Good point on the possibility of throwing weapons, Bloo. I'll be putting that in the next version. As far as trading goes, I have no idea, I've still had no luck whatsoever. I haven't given up completely on it since I haven't tried every possible solution. I've tried though a number of times genning a world just to year 1~10, so unless kobolds die off THAT fast, I don't think that's the issue. It'll be on my to-do list, though.

I've got a fair bout of work this weekend, but I'll see be moving it along. Thanks for the feedback, everyone


This may only be very tangentially related, but look what I found.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GRatedSex

See: Trope picture.

Wow, I remember seeing that being drawn on the Ruby Quest paintchat. That brings me back.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 16, 2010, 03:54:05 pm
The bandoleer is simply a quiver you rap around yourself, my version it simply appears that the person using the weapon just does not throw that last one. and stores the extras(ammo) in a quiver and should work conceptually for any throwing weapon. I'm not sure how the differences in damage for weapons and ammo work so that probably needs a fix.

About making the trained skill throwing, that makes sense. I don't know if there will be problems with that for the different modes though. will test it out. I should probably make a new thread just to not flood this with my tests of throwing weapons.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Vulkanis on April 16, 2010, 03:58:09 pm
Wait, shouldn't Kobolds breed and grow-up faster due to the fact that their much weaker?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 16, 2010, 04:11:45 pm
Wait, shouldn't Kobolds breed and grow-up faster due to the fact that their much weaker?

Yes, and unless my raws are lying to me, they do.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hikaratu on April 16, 2010, 05:28:10 pm
Is there any possibility of getting a list of reactions in the custom workshops? And is there supposed to be a way to get stone for bolds, since you gave them can_stone weapons to make? Just curious =P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 16, 2010, 05:39:54 pm
Is there any possibility of getting a list of reactions in the custom workshops? And is there supposed to be a way to get stone for bolds, since you gave them can_stone weapons to make? Just curious =P

Kobolds can't mine most stone, but you CAN mine both obsidian and chert, the catch is that you'd have to find those deposits on edges or in caves.

Here's the current list of reactions for kobolds for the custom buildings, minus the health training.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Though I could have redirected you to the raw/objects folder, and it's under reaction_kobold.txt.


In other news, I plopped down version 0.81 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071), this one includes throwing hammers and toss hammers, the toss hammer is the "bow" of the set, the throwing hammer is the actual projectile. I was going to add a couple other things but it didn't work so well, so it's not exactly a critical release, but what the hell.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hikaratu on April 16, 2010, 06:02:05 pm
Thanks, and sounds good. Done any testing with them? It'd be nice if they managed to more reliably get and use their ammo than bow/sling users xD Though I doubt it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 16, 2010, 06:30:11 pm
I tested them to make sure the reactions worked, only flaw is that creating a rock toss hammer consumes 1 stone and 1 wood. It'd be fine, but it uses the wood last, so it always considers it to be a wooden toss hammer. However, this is an issue with all rock weapons through the craftsbolds shop, so I'll likely take out the [CAN_STONE] on it, and just use reactions.
The throwing hammers work fine through, stacks of 15 per stone, made of stone.

But for kobolds actually using them? That's a pretty big military issue right now, not something that can be remedied through modding. I'm hoping that Toady will soon get around to fixing these military AI bugs.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 16, 2010, 11:02:48 pm
um... I don't know how but I just got an elven caravan.

 gah! my Depot is broken and my mason died before he could finish it. I will report what happens.

Addition: I am down to my last Kobold in this throw away fort I embarked on a glacier. all my nobles are dead so I couldn't do anything peaceful to the traders. so I just finished my wooden depot and then demolished it to steal all their stuff. (what its what we Kobolds do) so trading "works" but I wasnt able to actualy trade, but I do have a horse I can butcher and a Black bear to keep me warm at night, all I need is a lady bold to rubnoses with and it will be a dream come true.

Also digging in stone still works, for a while I thought it was just cause I had Ice and Chert for the first 6 layers, but when everyone started dying of thirst I decided to test it out and punched through 101 levels. and now my last kobold is living like a king in a little hidden spot by an underground lake watching GCS and Trolls wander a few steps away, and a colony of Hostile cavefishmen at the edge of his view.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hikaratu on April 16, 2010, 11:59:29 pm
I can't dig anything but chert/obsidian, I haven't had Ice to try it on my current camps in an area that has enough heat for kobold-melting rain... fortunately it doesn't rain much or melt too fast for me to send them into the burrows. 2nd year now and no caravans though, weird that you got an elf one, of all things o.O
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 17, 2010, 02:18:21 am
I find your post most intriguing, Bloo, and wish to know more. First off which version were you using? I just double checked my 0.81 ver and the digging works as it should (got stopped at the 3rd layer down.) And with working caravans.. either its possible and just unlikely, or your entity for elves may be a bit different. If I could get you to paste a copy of it, I'd like to run it against my own forest entity for any subtle difference that make it. Also if you added components from other mods to your Kobold Camp that may have affected things, specially if it involved inorganic_stone_mineral/layer.txt.

And ice should be diggable, Hika.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 17, 2010, 02:10:04 pm
Only things I added were the throwing weapons, the fort was started with .7 and then I dropped in .81 replacing all the files it asked me to. but the fort was started with .7 with no modifications, I was expecting to get an error for the new things that .81 but didn't get any. when digging for this Camp I would use ramps and then a 5x5 room while it was still the level below and unrevealed. when testing I thought maybe it being designated without seeing the stone was what caused it but that wasn't the case. [IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000] is on all applied stones minus the ones that were supposed to not have them.

The elves arrived just like in vanilla DF two merchants with pack animals in late spring. but as I said I wasnt able to test interaction with the traders because all kobolds were dead except for a glass-maker(last migrant to arrive).
Code: (Forest Entity) [Select]
[ENTITY:FOREST]
[CREATURE:ELF]
[TRANSLATION:ELF]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
[AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS_ELVEN]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_BREASTPLATE:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_MAIL_SHIRT:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_COAT:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_SHIRT:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TOGA:UNCOMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CAPE:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_VEST:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_DRESS:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_ROBE:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_HOOD:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_TURBAN:UNCOMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_VEIL_HEAD:UNCOMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_SCARF_HEAD:UNCOMMON]
[GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:COMMON]
[GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GLOVES:COMMON]
[GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_MITTENS:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SHOES:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SANDAL:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_CHAUSSE:UNCOMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SOCKS:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_PANTS:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LOINCLOTH:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_THONG:UNCOMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_SKIRT:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_SKIRT_SHORT:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_SKIRT_LONG:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_BRAIES:UNCOMMON]
[SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD]
[SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
[TOY:ITEM_TOY_PUZZLEBOX]
[TOY:ITEM_TOY_BOAT]
[INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_FLUTE]
[INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_HARP]
[INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_PICCOLO]
[CLOTHING]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:NATURE]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:FLOWERY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:SUBORDINATE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:EVIL]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:UNTOWARD]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATIVE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:UGLY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATOR]
[WOOD_WEAPONS]
[WOOD_ARMOR]
[OUTDOOR_WOOD]
[OUTDOOR_FARMING]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
[USE_GOOD_ANIMALS]
[USE_GOOD_PLANTS]
[USE_GOOD_WOOD]
[USE_ANY_PET_RACE]
[IMPROVED_BOWS]
[INVADERS_IGNORE_NEUTRALS]
[AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE]
[EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
[SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:PLANTS:384]
[SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:ANIMALS:384]
[SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:TREES:512]
[ART_FACET_MODIFIER:EVIL:0]
[ART_FACET_MODIFIER:GOOD:384]
[ART_FACET_MODIFIER:OWN_RACE:512]
[ART_IMAGE_ELEMENT_MODIFIER:ITEM:32]
[ART_IMAGE_ELEMENT_MODIFIER:PLANT:384]
[ART_IMAGE_ELEMENT_MODIFIER:TREE:512]
[ITEM_IMPROVEMENT_MODIFIER:SPIKES:0]
[ADVENTURE_TIER:2]
[FRIENDLY_COLOR:2:0:1]
[DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:TREE_CITY]
[LIKES_SITE:TREE_CITY]
[TOLERATES_SITE:CITY]
[TOLERATES_SITE:TREE_CITY]
[TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED]
[START_BIOME:ANY_FOREST]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_LAKE:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]
[TREE_CAP_DIPLOMACY]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:3]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:0]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:0]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
[AMBUSHER]
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
[START_GROUP_NUMBER:10]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
[RELIGION:REGIONAL_FORCE]
[WANDERER]
[SCOUT]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRADER]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:JUSTIFIED_IF_EXTREME_REASON]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:JUSTIFIED_IF_SELF_DEFENSE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:MISGUIDED]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_EXILE]
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PUNISH_EXILE]
[ETHIC:LYING:PUNISH_EXILE]
[ETHIC:VANDALISM:PUNISH_REPRIMAND]
[ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PUNISH_REPRIMAND]
[ETHIC:THEFT:PUNISH_REPRIMAND]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:PUNISH_EXILE]
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_EXILE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:UNTHINKABLE]
[POSITION:DRUID]
[NAME:druid:druids]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RELIGION]
[SUCCESSION:BY_POSITION:ACOLYTE]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[ELECTED]
[DETERMINES_COIN_DESIGN]
[PRECEDENCE:1]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[COLOR:2:0:1]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:ACOLYTE]
[NAME:acolyte:acolytes]
[NUMBER:1]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[APPOINTED_BY:DRUID]
[PRECEDENCE:100]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:2:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:GENERAL]
[NAME:princess:princesses]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]
[COMMANDER:RANGER_CAPTAIN:ALL]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[APPOINTED_BY:DRUID]
[GENDER:FEMALE]
[PRECEDENCE:3]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[COLOR:3:0:1]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:LEADER]
[NAME:queen:queens]
[NUMBER:1]
[RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
[SUCCESSION:BY_POSITION:GENERAL]
[MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
[PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
[APPOINTED_BY:DRUID]
[GENDER:FEMALE]
[RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
[PRECEDENCE:2]
[FLASHES]
[BRAG_ON_KILL]
[CHAT_WORTHY]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[KILL_QUEST]
[EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
[COLOR:7:0:1]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:RANGER_CAPTAIN]
[NAME:ranger captain:ranger captains]
[NUMBER:AS_NEEDED]
[SQUAD:10:ranger:rangers]
[RESPONSIBILITY:ATTACK_ENEMIES]
[RESPONSIBILITY:PATROL_TERRITORY]
[APPOINTED_BY:GENERAL]
[PRECEDENCE:200]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[DUTY_BOUND]

Also the Kobold entity in case the wackiness is from that
Code: (Kobold Entity) [Select]
[ENTITY:SKULKING]
[CREATURE:KOBOLD]
[CIV_CONTROLLABLE]
[INDIV_CONTROLLABLE]
[ADVENTURE_TIER:4]
[DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_SHOVEL]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_CHOPPER]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT_PRIMITIVE]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR_PRIMITIVE]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CLUB_PRIMITIVE]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
[AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SLING]
[AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_SLING_BULLETS]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_TOSS_HAMMER]
[AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_THROWING_HAMMERS]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LOINCLOTH:COMMON]
[INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
[TOY:ITEM_TOY_CHEWTOY]
[CLOTHING]
[SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING]
[USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]
[USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
[FRIENDLY_COLOR:6:0:0]
[DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:CAVE]
[LIKES_SITE:CAVE]
[TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE]
[START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
[START_BIOME:NOT_FREEZING]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_DESERT:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_LAKE:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:0]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:0]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:0]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:0]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:0]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
[AMBUSHER]
[ITEM_THIEF]
[SKULKING]
[INDOOR_WOOD]
[OUTDOOR_WOOD]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PET]
[OUTDOOR_FARMING]
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
[START_GROUP_NUMBER:120]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:2000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
[RELIGION:PANTHEON]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:FOOD]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:CAVERNS]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:ANIMALS]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:CRAFTS]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:FISHING]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:HUNTING]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:JEWELS]
[SCOUT]
[WANDERER]
[BEAST_HUNTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_CUTTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_SETTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:LEATHERWORKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:GLASSMAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:STRAND_EXTRACTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CHEESE_MAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MILKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
[PERMITTED_JOB:THRESHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MILLER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:DYER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:PLANTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SOAP_MAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:POTASH_MAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:LYE_MAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_ENGINEER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_OPERATOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:PUMP_OPERATOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CLERK]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ADMINISTRATOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRADER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
[PERMITTED_JOB:DIAGNOSER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_SETTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SUTURER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:SURGEON]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TAN_A_HIDE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TAN_A_FUR]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PRODUCE_LEATHER_BEDDING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PRODUCE_LEATHER_SLING]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:FURRIER]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:CRITTER_KITCHEN]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BURN_REMAINS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:COOK_CRITTER]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:SCRIMSHAWER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_BONE_SHOVEL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_BONE_SWORD]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_DAGGER_LARGE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_BONE_SPEAR]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_BONE_CLUB]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_BONE_CHOPPER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_BONE_FLASK]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_SHELL_BUCKLER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_SHELL_HELMET]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_BONE_ARMOR]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_SHELL_HAMMER]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:TRAP_SHOP]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PRODUCE_WOOD_MECHANISM]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CREATE_SPIKE_TRAP]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CREATE_DART_TRAP]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CREATE_HUGE_PILLAR_TRAP]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CREATE_SWINGING_HAMMER_TRAP]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CREATE_SHRAPNEL_TRAP]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:ANATOMICAL_THEATER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_WOUNDDRESSING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_SUTURING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_BONESETTING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_SURGERY]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:CRUTCH_TRAINING]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_CRUTCHWALKING]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:TRAINING_GROUNDS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_SWORD]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_AXE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_SPEAR]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_MACE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_HAMMER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TRAIN_DAGGER]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:STONE_SHAPER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_OBS_THROWING_HAMMERS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRAFT_CHE_THROWING_HAMMERS]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:PRIMITIVE_WORKSPACE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PUNISH_EXILE]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:TREASON:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:LYING:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:VANDALISM:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:TRESPASSING:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:THEFT:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:UNTHINKABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:UNTHINKABLE]


[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:1:20:5000:5000]
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:2:20:15000:10000]
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:3:20:30000:20000]
    [POSITION:CHIEFTAIN]
        [NAME:Chieftain:Chieftains]
        [NUMBER:1]
        [SPOUSE_MALE:Tribe Father:Tribe Fathers]
        [SPOUSE_FEMALE:Tribe Mother:Tribe Mothers]
        [SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
        [PRECEDENCE:1]
        [RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
        [MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
        [MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION_SPOUSE]
        [PUNISHMENT_EXEMPTION]
        [FLASHES]
        [BRAG_ON_KILL]
        [CHAT_WORTHY]
        [DO_NOT_CULL]
        [KILL_QUEST]
        [EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
        [COLOR:5:0:1]
        [ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
        [DUTY_BOUND]
        [REQUIRED_BOXES:3]
        [REQUIRED_CABINETS:3]
        [REQUIRED_RACKS:2]
        [REQUIRED_STANDS:2]
        [REQUIRED_OFFICE:1500]
        [REQUIRED_BEDROOM:1500]
        [REQUIRED_DINING:1500]
        [REQUIRED_TOMB:500]
    [POSITION:HEAD_KOBOLD]
        [NAME:Head Kobold:Head Kobolds]
        [SITE]
        [NUMBER:1]
        [REPLACED_BY:VILLAGE_CHIEF]
        [RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
        [PRECEDENCE:110]
        [DO_NOT_CULL]
        [ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
        [DUTY_BOUND]
    [POSITION:VILLAGE_CHIEF]
        [NAME:Village Chief:Village Chiefs]
        [SITE]
        [NUMBER:1]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
        [REQUIRES_POPULATION:50]
        [RULES_FROM_LOCATION]
        [SUCCESSION:BY_HEIR]
        [PRECEDENCE:60]
        [FLASHES]
        [BRAG_ON_KILL]
        [CHAT_WORTHY]
        [DO_NOT_CULL]
        [KILL_QUEST]
        [COLOR:5:0:0]
        [ACCOUNT_EXEMPT]
        [DUTY_BOUND]
        [REQUIRED_BOXES:2]
        [REQUIRED_CABINETS:1]
        [REQUIRED_RACKS:1]
        [REQUIRED_STANDS:1]
        [REQUIRED_OFFICE:500]
        [REQUIRED_BEDROOM:500]
        [REQUIRED_DINING:500]
[POSITION:TRADER]
[NAME:Trader:Traders]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:TRADE]
[APPOINTED_BY:HEAD_KOBOLD]
[APPOINTED_BY:VILLAGE_CHIEF]
[PRECEDENCE:170]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:HOARDCOUNTER]
[NAME:Hoardcounter:Hoardcounters]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:ACCOUNTING]
[APPOINTED_BY:HEAD_KOBOLD]
[APPOINTED_BY:VILLAGE_CHIEF]
[PRECEDENCE:180]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1]
[POSITION:WARBAND_MARSHAL]
[NAME:Warband Marshal:Warband Marshals]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[SQUAD:10:warrior-kobold:warrior-kobolds]
[APPOINTED_BY:HEAD_KOBOLD]
[APPOINTED_BY:VILLAGE_CHIEF]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]
[COMMANDER:WARBAND_LEADER:ALL]
[PRECEDENCE:120]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[POSITION:WARBAND_LEADER]
[NAME:Warband Leader:Warband Leaders]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:AS_NEEDED]
[SQUAD:10:warrior-kobold:warrior-kobolds]
[APPOINTED_BY:WARBAND_MARSHAL]
[PRECEDENCE:200]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[MILITARY_SCREEN_ONLY]
[POSITION:SHAMAN]
[NAME:Shaman:Shaman]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MANAGE_PRODUCTION]
[RESPONSIBILITY:RELIGION]
[APPOINTED_BY:VILLAGE_CHIEF]
[APPOINTED_BY:HEAD_KOBOLD]
[PRECEDENCE:160]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[COLOR:5:0:0]
[DUTY_BOUND]
[REQUIRED_OFFICE:1]
    [POSITION:WITCH_DOCTOR]
        [NAME:Witch Doctor:Witch Doctors]
        [SITE]
        [NUMBER:1]
        [RESPONSIBILITY:HEALTH_MANAGEMENT]
        [APPOINTED_BY:HEAD_KOBOLD]
        [APPOINTED_BY:VILLAGE_CHIEF]
        [PRECEDENCE:165]
        [DO_NOT_CULL]
        [COLOR:5:0:0]
        [DUTY_BOUND]


And on a different note, Just wondering, how about removing the [IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000] from native metals. Especially copper since it is a DF staple for bolds and Native "ores" are just the metal itself and doesn't really need any refining to extract it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Enola on April 17, 2010, 06:44:00 pm
I downloaded the last fully packed version (0.81) and somehow meat isn't showing up in the kitchen menu and it can't be cooked into meals, either. I guess that means they won't eat it?

Prolly a problem in the raws, a pointer to fix that would be nice.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lazy Moo Moo on April 18, 2010, 06:17:54 am
I have the latest version and I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what might be going on.  Basically when I try to start a fort I can't choose any shovels/choppers.   Never had this problem before.   I'm thinking it's a civilization issue, but I've tried rather repeatedly to regen different worlds of various sizes and each time they don't seem to come out with the ability to start with shovels/choppers.   Any help?  :(

Love the mod, by the way.  Yay kobolds.  ;D
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 18, 2010, 06:49:13 am
It's a problem I'm still trying to figure out,  appearently they need the materials to actually build the weapons (as shovels are just picks codewise).  Otherwise the "Weapon" option doesn't show up in Embark, I still need to try something to see if it'll work.

I'll get back to everyone if it works.

Huh unless I'm mistaken,  alot of the fixes to the raws in 31.03 have poofed again, or the "fixes" weren't actually fixes.

No wait, yeah all the raws reverted back to the 31.02 version of the raws,  so... goats have horses again.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 18, 2010, 08:02:21 am
Huh, next release was going to be mostly bug/balance fixing anyway, seems like there a fair bit of work to be done on the matter. And yeah, I think I will make copper mineable.

Sorry I wasn't around the last couple days to get this stuff sorted out earlier, but I'll be getting around to the issues later today.

EDIT: Addressing the given issues~

I have the latest version and I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what might be going on.  Basically when I try to start a fort I can't choose any shovels/choppers.   Never had this problem before.   I'm thinking it's a civilization issue, but I've tried rather repeatedly to regen different worlds of various sizes and each time they don't seem to come out with the ability to start with shovels/choppers.   Any help?  :(

Love the mod, by the way.  Yay kobolds.  ;D


Moo Moo, I assume you're talking about the embark screen. I've never been able to go to pick shovels or choppers from the New item list on the embark screen either. It's just not been a problem for me so far, as even "prepare for the journey carefully" sets me up with 2 shovels and choppers, and I can add/subtract if necessary (they should appear at the very top of the list). The only issue is that sometimes you end up with an expensive steel chopper when you'd rather have say bronze. I can't say I know a way around it. But this does bug me now that you mention it, I'll try modding it so you can pick them from the item list.


Only things I added were the throwing weapons, the fort was started with .7 and then I dropped in .81 replacing all the files it asked me to. but the fort was started with .7 with no modifications, I was expecting to get an error for the new things that .81 but didn't get any. when digging for this Camp I would use ramps and then a 5x5 room while it was still the level below and unrevealed. when testing I thought maybe it being designated without seeing the stone was what caused it but that wasn't the case. [IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000] is on all applied stones minus the ones that were supposed to not have them.

The elves arrived just like in vanilla DF two merchants with pack animals in late spring. but as I said I wasnt able to test interaction with the traders because all kobolds were dead except for a glass-maker(last migrant to arrive).

And on a different note, Just wondering, how about removing the [IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000] from native metals. Especially copper since it is a DF staple for bolds and Native "ores" are just the metal itself and doesn't really need any refining to extract it.

I compared the entity sections, and for the life of me I couldn't see a difference. I'm wanting to chalk this up to luck, in that it's very unlikely that you get trade but it's possible. Unfulfilling, but trade testing's not at the top of my list for awhile. I also can't replicate the stone-digging you apparently had, it's working on my end.

Anyhow, next version, I'll make it possible to mine Copper, Silver, Gold, Cobaltite (for namesakes) and, in confidence that stone digging works as it should(n't), Adamantine. If you manage to get all the way down to an adamantine vein with kobolds and you're willing to actually mine it, then as far as I'm concerned you deserve it.


It's a problem I'm still trying to figure out,  appearently they need the materials to actually build the weapons (as shovels are just picks codewise).  Otherwise the "Weapon" option doesn't show up in Embark, I still need to try something to see if it'll work.

I'll get back to everyone if it works.

Huh unless I'm mistaken,  alot of the fixes to the raws in 31.03 have poofed again, or the "fixes" weren't actually fixes.

No wait, yeah all the raws reverted back to the 31.02 version of the raws,  so... goats have horses again.

raws reverted back to the 31.02 version

What.

Double edit: Double what. I'm monumentally befuddled. HOW that happened, since this IS 31.03, is well beyond me. I can't imagine I touched most of those raws after placing them from my 31.03 download. Anyways, I'm going through them and manually changing or replacing the raw files with the actual 31.03 files for the next version via the file changes.txt. Which mention nothing about goats having horses, but I replaced the creature raws (cept for kobolds of course) nonetheless.


I downloaded the last fully packed version (0.81) and somehow meat isn't showing up in the kitchen menu and it can't be cooked into meals, either. I guess that means they won't eat it?

Prolly a problem in the raws, a pointer to fix that would be nice.

Alright, THIS problem thankfully I'm seeing on my own copy. After testing it, I found that the kobolds DO eat the meat by itself. It should be cookable though, so I'll be seeing what I can do about it.
Edit 2: Further investigation shows that this was a problem since pathos's kobold camp. I think he changed the food kobolds have, which may have made meat cooking gone. Here's what I've ruled out:: Although vanilla 31.03 lets you cook meat, it's not a problem with entities, and changing item_food.txt back to vanilla made no difference. It should only take so long nonetheless to pinpoint the problem raw, so I'll get to that eventually.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hikaratu on April 18, 2010, 09:48:23 pm
My kobolds appear to refuse to use bins for any reason, It seems unlikely that it's intentional and I can replicate it on 100% of my forts for your latest version, I can't remember whether or not I even made a bin in the last version or two though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lazy Moo Moo on April 18, 2010, 11:26:58 pm
Moo Moo, I assume you're talking about the embark screen. I've never been able to go to pick shovels or choppers from the New item list on the embark screen either. It's just not been a problem for me so far, as even "prepare for the journey carefully" sets me up with 2 shovels and choppers, and I can add/subtract if necessary (they should appear at the very top of the list). The only issue is that sometimes you end up with an expensive steel chopper when you'd rather have say bronze. I can't say I know a way around it. But this does bug me now that you mention it, I'll try modding it so you can pick them from the item list.

Now that I think of it, I have usually used prepare carefully, but I got tired of throwing everything in and finally used a saved loadout.  I guess when I use the saved loadout it doesn't know how to find the choppers and shovels for some reason.  Yeah, they show up properly if I do prepare carefully though.  Ahem.  My bad.  But yeah, might be something to try looking at at some point.  :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 19, 2010, 03:41:31 am
Been a few days, but version 0.82 is out. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071) As reflected by the last page of this thread, this version is mostly about bug fixing and raw tweaking. Some fixed, some not. Essentially a real small update considering how much time was put on it.

Main game changing thing is the ability to mine Copper/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Adamantine (I will return to this issue), which is going to lead to a bunch of reactions on the matter. Currently it's just for throwing hammer ammo, but it'll soon have a reaction for other weapons. Not done with the bug testing, but I do have a good idea and/or handle on what rema

My kobolds appear to refuse to use bins for any reason, It seems unlikely that it's intentional and I can replicate it on 100% of my forts for your latest version, I can't remember whether or not I even made a bin in the last version or two though.

This projects gonna give me a masterfully crafted hernia. My point is though, I'm happy enough in that soon I'll be able to work, again, on the actual juice of the kobold entity. Now, as far as the aforementioned issue is concerned, I understand that there are many different opinions to what kobolds are, to what kobolds should and should not have...

One might think "Gold? Platinum?! Kobold's aren't supposed to have stuff like that!" and then spurt out their beverage of choice at Adamantine. Well, your line of thinking isn't illogical. One could think that I'm completely desecrating the primitive, wooden fluff of cutebolds, but I'd have to cordially disagree. Allow me to regale you the reasons as to why this would be. <<<INCOMING TANGENT OF UNIMPORTANT EMISSIONS>>>

At the 1st of spring there are, always have been, and so long as it is hardcoded always will be 7. So far from what I've seen, you're lucky to get 20 with migrant waves before a neverending winter of "attracted no migrants this season." So from then on it's all breeding, and it would take years on end to get any significant amount of kobolds.

This "significant number" of cutebolds are armed to the teeth here and there with a topping of a choice bone weapon. They're small, they're weak, and to get to so much as the gold and platinum you've got to either get really lucky or, more likely, go spelunking.

I've had well trained military squads fall to a lone alligator and entire camps crushed by elves. To rephrase, crushed by wooden weapons. And here comes the meat of my argument: These aren't dwarves that you can have seal off a cave tunnel and keep exploratory digging to yourself, beating around the bush that is the cave. You've got to send dozens of cutebolds downward into the established depths of blind cave bears, olms and various animal people, and only after a bloodsoaked river from the underground tunnels to your nearest cleaning hole can you get let's say some gold and silver. Later, you stumble upon a platinum vein! But a bad thought strikes you, as you can't mine it. Why? Half your miners are tantrumming and your other half are getting punched in the face by the first half, and you can't get any more miners because all those who are still sane are fighting off the inevitable sieges. And the insane ones are fighting a megabeast.

Somehow you overcome this and replenish your numbers, and climb farther and farther. Now, I'm confident caves really do go all the way to the bottom from anecdotal evidence, to which you may be able to find an Adamantine vein. At this point if your first kobolds haven't died in or from camp shenanigans then they're probably dead from old age. Your toil and efforts have brought you copper weapons (and soon enough armor) and shiny trinkets of gold and platinum. And frankly with these raws I don't even know of copper is better than bone. However, the best reward is the one you have to work for, and it's a savory moment as your hardened shovel wielding cutebolds whack an adamantine vein with their hammer.

One whack, two whack, three whack. Now you've got 2 raw adamantines you can fashion to whatever, and one hundred demons. The 'bolds have, at this long point in time, surely come to the conclusion that hell is not about the actually place "hell", but rather the journey to hell. Now with your killed FPS you can seal off the onslaught of the demon horde (I admit I've never tried this but I bet they'll give up and go away at the sight of a wall in the way.) But you don't need to prove anything more. You've gone where not even dwarves, let alone cutebolds, were meant to go. If a daring cutebold had kept wits about and brought along a raw adamantine in the frenzied fleeing upstairs, then perhaps it could be smelted. From there it would be the pride and joy of the cutebold's dreams, the product of fields of graveyards. It would be a <no modifier> loincloth.

And that, my dear reader, is the culmination, the knee-falling epiphany of what makes a species worthy of adamantine if ever I felt one was worthy.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 19, 2010, 07:42:14 am
I've always liked playing my cutebolds as scavangers from time to time, however with the melty-man bug (Acid rain/Rapid fat loss) I can't settle in most of the ruins cause they seem centered in the Scorching regions, usually with an aquifer somewhere underground.  (And they never build wells in Worldgen ... hmm)

Anyways now to up to KC .82

On a sidenote,  I've now learned that adding "Stone Pref" to the entity default does not constitute as "adding materials" for the primitive/stone weapons for the 'bolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 19, 2010, 02:20:43 pm
That story was awesome! and you are right that the caves can and do connect to each other all the way down, sadly the chances that the connection are in the same embark region is extremely slim, so getting down to the adamantine(on top of the challenge of getting down to the underground itself. So difficulty wise, I think its a good option.

that bin problem sounds like it might be an issue with DF itself. because bin use and storage stuff is hard-coded right?

oh and Ive noticed my Kobolds were leaving behind black sand as they walked around, not surre why, and im pretty sure it has nothing to do with KC.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hikaratu on April 19, 2010, 03:15:40 pm
Well my latest dwarf fort uses bins just fine, and the hard coding for the latest kobold camp should be identical so it's something Lagotrope managed to do most likely >.o. I don't mind if this gets fixed soon or not though, Lago's already working pretty hard to help make this mod amazing.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 19, 2010, 04:08:21 pm
Hm... I just ran a quick fort, and they seemed to be using bins as they should. It's as you say though Hika, the hard coding is the same, so it probably would be something I stepped on. Perhaps I inadvertently fixed it from 0.81 to 0.82, but either way it'll be hard to help you out if I'm not getting the problem myself. If it keeps being a problem for you in ver .82 though, then if you like you can upload your saved folder somewhere and I can take a look.

And for black sand (or any sand), I often did have that happen in 40d as well. I guess it acted sort of like people at the beach, it sticks to them and they leave a trail of sand for a good while after.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: monk12 on April 19, 2010, 04:13:48 pm
Huzzah the modmaker!

Using this as a distraction until next DF is out, looks like a lot of fun! Monitoring with great interest.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hikaratu on April 19, 2010, 05:25:37 pm
Yea, they're chucking stuff in bins quite happily in .82 so I dunno what exactly happened between the two, oh well it saves you the trouble eh? xD

edit:Well I'm thinking about it when I try to tame vermin the animal trainer takes the trap with a vermin in it to the kennel then cancels the job "needs unrotton item" then puts the vermin back in the stockpile
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Verdian on April 20, 2010, 04:01:54 am
I thought this sounded like a lot of fun, so I downloaded the full game version and gave it a shot! I started generating my world... and it kept rejecting them. The farthest it would get was "placing caves", but after 96 worlds were rejected, I stopped the game. Is this normal? Did I give up too soon? I didn't change anything in the game, so I am not sure why a world refused to stick. Any help is appreciated.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Calhoun on April 20, 2010, 01:13:52 pm
Verdian, You might want to up the number of non-mountain caves iworlgen paramaters.

You'll get that rejection, mostly in smaller worlds.

So just up the numbers, and worlgen should go fine.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Intelligent Shade of Blue on April 20, 2010, 01:19:56 pm
Are the kobolds embarking with shovels/choppers successfully yet? My last band of kobolds got torn apart by a pack of beak dogs while I tried to come up with a way to get a stone without a digging implement :'(
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 20, 2010, 02:35:33 pm
I thought this sounded like a lot of fun, so I downloaded the full game version and gave it a shot! I started generating my world... and it kept rejecting them. The farthest it would get was "placing caves", but after 96 worlds were rejected, I stopped the game. Is this normal? Did I give up too soon? I didn't change anything in the game, so I am not sure why a world refused to stick. Any help is appreciated.

Are you using mine or Pathos's? I upped the number of caves, so it should gen worlds pretty reliably in my version. But I mention this since if you were using mine then I'd like to know the details, such that I may remedy this.

Are the kobolds embarking with shovels/choppers successfully yet? My last band of kobolds got torn apart by a pack of beak dogs while I tried to come up with a way to get a stone without a digging implement :'(

It's something I'm attempting to rectify today, but no at the moment you can't choose new shovels/choppers at the embark screen. This problem has been had and mentioned, so without further ado, the quotes:

I have the latest version and I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what might be going on.  Basically when I try to start a fort I can't choose any shovels/choppers.   Never had this problem before.   I'm thinking it's a civilization issue, but I've tried rather repeatedly to regen different worlds of various sizes and each time they don't seem to come out with the ability to start with shovels/choppers.   Any help?  :(

Love the mod, by the way.  Yay kobolds.  ;D

Moo Moo, I assume you're talking about the embark screen. I've never been able to go to pick shovels or choppers from the New item list on the embark screen either. It's just not been a problem for me so far, as even "prepare for the journey carefully" sets me up with 2 shovels and choppers, and I can add/subtract if necessary (they should appear at the very top of the list). The only issue is that sometimes you end up with an expensive steel chopper when you'd rather have say bronze. I can't say I know a way around it. But this does bug me now that you mention it, I'll try modding it so you can pick them from the item list.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Pathos on April 20, 2010, 02:42:31 pm
By the way, the whole sand thing is due to the [GRASSTRAMPLE] ( or something ) tag in the old version. Not sure what it is in the new. Your kobolds walk over grass and remove it from the ground.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Intelligent Shade of Blue on April 20, 2010, 02:46:56 pm
Ah, I kept thinking i was ending up with weird kobold civs cause my saved embark profile would always spit out a no choppers/shovels problem. Probably should have just tried to prepare again, but I thought I would check if a fix was found.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 20, 2010, 06:44:02 pm
And version 0.84 is up, with mixed feelings on my part. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

The remainder of the bugs I'm aware of are either dealt with or given up on. As for the details on what's been done and what's to come....

The Good:
Meat is cookable again. For whatever reason, Arrkhal's rebalance mod deleted many body component's various edible tags. They've been added back in, and it appears to work fine.
Ever try digging through damp stone and have to spam Esc as your game pauses for every canceled tile? Though the tile is still canceled, the game simply announces it and keeps rolling along.
Since I'm more or less (though not satisfactorily) done with the bugs, I can move on to more content. Finishing up reactions and adding in kobold war animals/mounts is at the top of the list, so long as no other awesome ideas catch my eye.
Shovels and choppers, hell any weapons kobolds use, can now be selected at the embark menu. This is the zebra sheep of the group, leading me to...

The Bad:
The shovel and chopper selection issue was a 2 part fixer, both had to be in. The first is the addition of [STONE_PREF] to the entity. I've little idea as to why it's that and not say metal_pref, but I tested the combinations. This has the side effect of being able to select many stones at embark: Useless ones are only 3p, but you can still select the whole collection it seems, not just the chert/obsidian/copper/silver/gold/plat that it should be. I'm not sure if I should leave this bug alone (probably not it, multiple people are having issues with it, it seems) or leave it alone as it currently is at .84, or go ahead and add masonry. Mechanisms would turn into a dime a dozen (okay, 36p) as my first thought with masonry, and I'm sure I'm not thinking of other issues. Waitnothatswrong mechanisms have nothing to do with masonry, they're already a dime a dozen as things are. Definitely not good. It requires more thought, it does.
Critter reactions don't work now (or maybe they haven't worked in awhile?), as the reactions wouldn't show even after I captured a toad and chipmunk. Critter possibilities aren't quite so versatile as I once hoped, I may take those out.

The Ugly:
The second part of the fix for shovel and chopper embark selection was this: I had to add in a few metal jobs like metalsmithing, weaponsmith, etc. (I don't know which one or multiple it was, but I took out armorer so that the skill family was disabled, as it's very unkoboldly to have that much advanced metal jobs.
Furthermore, there's no [minor_metal] tag, and so kobolds can select iron weapons at embark.
DF deep complexity is one of the strong points of the game, but the weapon/trap raws are very questionable. Kinda miss a plain [DAMAGE:XXX] tag, or something that makes intuitive sense. In any case, I don't think I'm going to be able to balance the weapons much more than they currently are. I'll toy around with it more, but I promise nothing.

Here's the ugly in a nutshell, I think:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2wcqknn.jpg)

By the way, the whole sand thing is due to the [GRASSTRAMPLE] ( or something ) tag in the old version. Not sure what it is in the new. Your kobolds walk over grass and remove it from the ground.

Huh, never knew that was the case. The new raws still have grasstrample tags, but kobolds don't have one, and I don't know what the default is. Either way, they're no dwarves, but they're no elves either, so the default is fine with me. Although elves are at default too, not sure if that was an oversight or not.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Verdian on April 20, 2010, 09:12:47 pm
I thought this sounded like a lot of fun, so I downloaded the full game version and gave it a shot! I started generating my world... and it kept rejecting them. The farthest it would get was "placing caves", but after 96 worlds were rejected, I stopped the game. Is this normal? Did I give up too soon? I didn't change anything in the game, so I am not sure why a world refused to stick. Any help is appreciated.

Are you using mine or Pathos's? I upped the number of caves, so it should gen worlds pretty reliably in my version. But I mention this since if you were using mine then I'd like to know the details, such that I may remedy this.

I was using Pathos', I didn't realize there were two different versions. I will try the latest release of yours. Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 11:02:00 am
Haven't seen this pop up yet but obsidian weapons are turned into wood ones.

Example: Make a rock chopper with obsidian stone and larch wood and you'll get larch chopper.

May be related to what is grabbed last, in this case I believe the wood was grabbed last.

May be a bit annoying to micro rock weapons to ensure obsidian is grabbed after wood is.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Intelligent Shade of Blue on April 21, 2010, 11:03:14 am
Haven't seen this pop up yet but obsidian weapons are turned into wood ones.

Example: Make a rock chopper with obsidian stone and larch wood and you'll get larch chopper.

May be related to what is grabbed last, in this case I believe the wood was grabbed last.

May be a bit annoying to micro rock weapons to ensure obsidian is grabbed after wood is.

Last I heard, that was happening in regular DF too.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 11:13:31 am
Like I said, I wasn't sure. 40d was fine but DF2010 everything is more or less FUBAR.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 01:21:18 pm
Curious if making an Arsenal Dwarf for Kobolds would make the military part simpler... removing the population requirement though.

Suppose I'll try it out and see how it performs. God the military stuff is so horrid in this version. :(
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 01:51:22 pm
Like Blue says, it's happening in regular DF too, it's why I kept the throwing hammer reaction in the stone shaper building instead of leaving the carver shop entry alone.

As for an arsenal kobold, I'm unsure. The wiki says that until the slot opens up, dwarves (in this case kobolds) will equip whatever right away. If this is the case, I could stand not ever having one, and letting military kobolds run as an autonomy for equipment. Apparently once the slot does open up, the arsenal dwarf will be required to license the equipment changes. The question is.. if the entity has no arsenal equivelent, then will they always just equip themselves with no management necessary, or is the game hardcoded to require equipment management at population 20 (or whenever it should become available normally)?

I don't think I've had issues with equipment when I've had over 20 kobolds, though. But either way, it seems like you're testing it out, so let me know the results.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 02:23:44 pm
Didn't even notice a change at all unless it's hardcoded at 20.

Basically did two tests:
1) Added a copy of Arsenal Dwarf under Kobold entity; removed the population requirement. No change.
2) Removed copy of Arsenal Dwarf under Kobold entity; added responsibilities of Arsenal Dwarf to Hoardcounter; removed the population requirement. No change.

The only untested issue is I didn't wait to get population of 20.

Also, was hoping it'd make it easier to make hunters/archerbolds but despite the obstacles, I just had a kobold chase down random animals with a quiver/bow/arrows equipped and proceed to bash them in the fat with the bow instead of headshots.

Lagotrope: Might I suggest duplicating the rock stuff in a custom workshop to bypass the issue? Or is it simply something to do with the reaction period? I had tried to work out throwing glove/hammers but nothing has been working. Has anyone been able to eek out some form of archery or hunting?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 02:40:25 pm
Throwing hammers already are in the custom workshop, Stone Shaper. And throwing gloves are meant to be made out of leather (it's just the game treating it as a firing weapon that has it often built out of copper, bronze, etc.)

Course, now that you mention it, I don't think I've tested the other stone weapons (chopper, sword etc) to make sure they're just made out of stone too. I'll test that soon enough, thanks for pointing it out.

As far as archery, hunting and military using firearms.. it's borked, and that's all I can say. Frankly I'm just putting them in in the high hopes that it'll be there when the issues are fixed.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 21, 2010, 03:03:02 pm
That is so weird (On the metalsmithing jobs)  I tried that before in my tests and it didn't effect anything, no weapons option came up or anything.

We could always fall back on the old-addage.  "Somewhere besides your settlement there is a mad scientist Kobb who studied the practices of the others in the world and found a way to make it work for kobbs."

Or as Gobbo said in the original "There's a super-advanced central fortress somewhere pumping this higher-tech out."
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 03:15:12 pm
That is so weird (On the metalsmithing jobs)  I tried that before in my tests and it didn't effect anything, no weapons option came up or anything.

We could always fall back on the old-addage.  "Somewhere besides your settlement there is a mad scientist Kobb who studied the practices of the others in the world and found a way to make it work for kobbs."

Or as Gobbo said in the original "There's a super-advanced central fortress somewhere pumping this higher-tech out."

Did you add in [CAN_STONE] STONE_PREF when you added the metalsmithing jobs? As I said, which I wouldn't expect anyone to catch since it was amidst a wall of text, it was a two-part fixer. If either one is removed, no weapons were added.

Never did catch Gobbo's quote saying that. I always chalked it up to trade, say, you can commission the humans to create some shovels for you. Makes sense you could start with some then. Course back then, your migrants would have a random job, including ones you don't normally get. Maybe that still happens, I haven't been looking too hard, but I don't remember getting any non-allowed jobs...

Well, my main issue with the current state of affairs is the mechanisms. I spent all that thought trying to make mechanisms a rather tough (or at least expensive) process, and now you can effectively start with a ton, 3 p apiece. Either I'm going to remove can_stone and hope not too many people have issues with starting with a couple shovels/choppers, or I may end up adding masonry/stone detail, and let people start with ton of rocks/mechanisms. I can see myself fretting over this decision through a lengthy timeline, so other people's thoughts on this would get my monumental appreciation.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 21, 2010, 03:20:15 pm
Does anyone here know if it is possible to make armor out of Stone in any shop? I've been wanting my Kobolds to be able to use Native Copper for weapons and armor, but I'm not sure how to make it work properly.

At first I thought that I could modify Native Copper to resemble Obsidian, so that it could be made into Rock Short Swords. I noticed that a lot of materials had tags associated with them like [Item_Weapon] or [Item_Armor], and I also thought that maybe I could add those tags to the Native Copper while still having it keep the [Is_Stone] tag and thought that maybe I'd be able to make stone armor/shields at the Crafts shop under Stone Crafts.

Is it hardcoded that Stone can't be made into armor or something?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 21, 2010, 03:23:50 pm
I did have [CAN_STONE] For like everything but I think you mean STONE_PREF and the metalsmithing, and no I never had Both the metalsmithing and stone_pref included at the same time.

So that would explain why it never showed up XD
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 03:34:10 pm
Does anyone here know if it is possible to make armor out of Stone in any shop? I've been wanting my Kobolds to be able to use Native Copper for weapons and armor, but I'm not sure how to make it work properly.

At first I thought that I could modify Native Copper to resemble Obsidian, so that it could be made into Rock Short Swords. I noticed that a lot of materials had tags associated with them like [Item_Weapon] or [Item_Armor], and I also thought that maybe I could add those tags to the Native Copper while still having it keep the [Is_Stone] tag and thought that maybe I'd be able to make stone armor/shields at the Crafts shop under Stone Crafts.

Is it hardcoded that Stone can't be made into armor or something?

Fraid that normally, I don't think that armor can be made out of stone/ore. But fret not, next release will have various reactions to make copper shields and breastplates and such.

And Kaelem, I DID say stone_pref, I never make make mistakes, however did you come to that idea?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 21, 2010, 03:43:49 pm
Does anyone here know if it is possible to make armor out of Stone in any shop? I've been wanting my Kobolds to be able to use Native Copper for weapons and armor, but I'm not sure how to make it work properly.

At first I thought that I could modify Native Copper to resemble Obsidian, so that it could be made into Rock Short Swords. I noticed that a lot of materials had tags associated with them like [Item_Weapon] or [Item_Armor], and I also thought that maybe I could add those tags to the Native Copper while still having it keep the [Is_Stone] tag and thought that maybe I'd be able to make stone armor/shields at the Crafts shop under Stone Crafts.

Is it hardcoded that Stone can't be made into armor or something?

Fraid that normally, I don't think that armor can be made out of stone/ore. But fret not, next release will have various reactions to make copper shields and breastplates and such.

And Kaelem, I DID say stone_pref, I never make make mistakes, however did you come to that idea?

Next release of DF or of Kobold Camp? I need to figure out how to turn Native Metal ores into objects without using the Forge or Smelter, and so far its puzzling me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 03:52:56 pm
Next version of Kobold camp. I'll probably just do the main reactions before adding in possible kobold mounts for 0.9, point being is that it'll probably be later tonight, so don't kill yourself over it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 04:01:25 pm
Lagotrope, the releases are quite decent.

Don't know why you didn't look into the one I released awhile back. :(

The reason kobolds were allowed to "exotic" labors was due to luck based on migrants. Getting a metalsmith or mason was an awesome thing and someone you wanted to protect cuz otherwise waiting for another could be awhile.

It was a balancing the offset for birth (which gives no skills) and annoying migrants (item_thief helped constrict the flow so you didn't jump from 7 to 25).

No idea why I went into that.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 21, 2010, 04:12:59 pm
Next version of Kobold camp. I'll probably just do the main reactions before adding in possible kobold mounts for 0.9, point being is that it'll probably be later tonight, so don't kill yourself over it.

I'm curious as to how you'd be able to make reactions which create objects. Would the objects be able to have quality modifiers, or would they be hardcoded? What I mean is, if you have a custom workshop which has a reaction that requires 1 Copper Nugget and produces 1 Copper Dagger, would the skill of the worker effect the quality of the dagger, or would that be impossible?

Is it even possible at all to code reactions which produce Made Objects, or can they only produce raw materials, like the Smelter Reactions?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 21, 2010, 04:21:51 pm

I'm curious as to how you'd be able to make reactions which create objects. Would the objects be able to have quality modifiers, or would they be hardcoded? What I mean is, if you have a custom workshop which has a reaction that requires 1 Copper Nugget and produces 1 Copper Dagger, would the skill of the worker effect the quality of the dagger, or would that be impossible?

Is it even possible at all to code reactions which produce Made Objects, or can they only produce raw materials, like the Smelter Reactions?


the answer to that dear bob is no custom reactions can get Quality modifiers.  YET, maybe in the next major DF
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 21, 2010, 04:39:42 pm

I'm curious as to how you'd be able to make reactions which create objects. Would the objects be able to have quality modifiers, or would they be hardcoded? What I mean is, if you have a custom workshop which has a reaction that requires 1 Copper Nugget and produces 1 Copper Dagger, would the skill of the worker effect the quality of the dagger, or would that be impossible?

Is it even possible at all to code reactions which produce Made Objects, or can they only produce raw materials, like the Smelter Reactions?


the answer to that dear bob is no custom reactions can get Quality modifiers.  YET, maybe in the next major DF

Well, whatever the case I look forward to seeing how you code up the raws to allow for Kobolds to make copper tools without Forges. It should prove quite educational.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 04:44:17 pm
Lagotrope, the releases are quite decent.

Don't know why you didn't look into the one I released awhile back. :(

The reason kobolds were allowed to "exotic" labors was due to luck based on migrants. Getting a metalsmith or mason was an awesome thing and someone you wanted to protect cuz otherwise waiting for another could be awhile.

It was a balancing the offset for birth (which gives no skills) and annoying migrants (item_thief helped constrict the flow so you didn't jump from 7 to 25).

No idea why I went into that.

Not quite sure what I said that brought up the one you released awhile back. Well, as chance would have it, I did play those kobold camp versions posted later in the thread, likely yours if you had released one (I wasn't looking at names.) If you mean why I didn't look at them as in didn't implement what was there into my versions, then I suppose I just didn't think of it. Feel free to recommend something you'd like to see.

I do remember the days though of getting fancy jobs back then and indeed, it was headdesk worthy moments when they got themselves killed. Although I would think that be a reason to *not* allow exotic jobs, as... well I'm going to be honest, your post has greatly confused me.

And to expand on what Kaelem said, I would add that I actually don't mind the lack of modifiers, given kobolds and difficulty and all.
And also bob, it is possible to produce made objects (such as what I'm adding now, a native copper ore straight into a copper shovel.)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 21, 2010, 04:46:38 pm
Woops, gotta remember to clean-cut (Delete everything in the current KC 2010 folder) before putting in the new version (After applying my changes.)  Else embark crashes on me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 05:25:38 pm
Shell Hammer is using two wood logs and two sets of bones; should be one wood log and shell item, right?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 05:31:24 pm
Shell Hammer is using two wood logs and two sets of bones; should be one wood log and shell item, right?

Ahh, good catch. Originally I was going to have the shell hammer a bit stronger than a club and as such take more material. I may do that in the future but at the moment the hammer isn't worth its material in pain, so I'll change it back to 1/1, thanks!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 05:41:27 pm
Lagotrope, could you perhaps add a section in your readme for your custom reactions? (What/where/needed items)

Just would make it easier to open that up instead of going through raws.

edit: Hmm.. what's the trick to the custom traps?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 05:51:15 pm
That's a good idea, and likely a necessity after the amount of reactions I'm putting in today. May as well re-organizing the readme while I'm at it, it's getting kind of lengthy anyway.

And trick to custom traps? Well, the weapon traps should work like normal, but the trap components.. you build those in the Trap Shop with wood/bone/both, then when you build a weapon trap like vanilla df, you (should) be able to select the custom trap components as weapons you put in the weapon trap. I'll re-test the weapon traps to make sure they're still working.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 06:19:36 pm
Weapon trap thing worked, just waiting for something to trigger it.

In the mean time, what's the issue with butchering newborn kittens? Only a skull pops out. Using the latest version, too which is supposed to be fixed?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 06:29:46 pm
Looks like Arsenal Dwarf doesn't even trigger at all for some reason.

Just hit 23 population and nothing came up. :(
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 21, 2010, 06:39:14 pm
Hmm.. BONECARN may not be a great idea if hunting is so difficult and breeding can take awhile to start.

Not sure if Fishing is still limited like in 40d or unlimited now. Also, making a shell helmet results in "large turtle shell shell helmet". Take off shell for description?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 07:03:17 pm
Never changed anything that should have to do with kittens, so that should be a DF thing. Also a DF thing is that sometimes even when you DO hit 20 pop with dwarves, the arsenal dwarf position doesn't open. The wiki says it should open up randomly later nonetheless, though.

As for bonecarn, I haven't had an issue with it, since fishing is hugely more plentiful than 40d, the latter which runs out forever inside of the first summer. I've still had "nothing to catch" messages pop up now and again, but it's never been so bad that I've been starved out. Certainly should have enough fish to hold over enough kobolds for a long while, and by the time you do get a bunch more kobolds, you likely can have a good amount of livestock around.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 08:26:16 pm
Ver 0.9 up! (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

No wall of text to say this time. Finished reactions, the main problem this time is that apparently building armor (at least through reaction) auto-sizes the armor to dwarves. In other words, kobolds build armor too big for themselves. Can't believe I didn't notice this with shell helmets earlier. Anyways, seems like they've just got to be kickass at blocking. Also as per recommendation, I resorted the readme. Also put in dungeon master tasks to shamans, leading into the top of the list now, custom exotic mounts to kobolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Verdian on April 21, 2010, 08:58:53 pm
Does the readme document all of the new buildings, too? That really threw me for a loop. I still don't know what all of them do, and I am probably missing out on a lot.

Also, a request: I was looking forward to making a rough kobold camp, and had built a wooden wall and mined a very small section for stockpiles. But I wanted most of structures to be above ground. I tried to place a table, but was told they could only be placed inside! Oh no! There went my plan. Could you make it so that kobolds can build furniture where ever they want? I know that (classically) they usually live in caves, but kobolds living above ground does happen, unlike with dwarves.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 09:29:06 pm
Does the readme document all of the new buildings, too? That really threw me for a loop. I still don't know what all of them do, and I am probably missing out on a lot.

Also, a request: I was looking forward to making a rough kobold camp, and had built a wooden wall and mined a very small section for stockpiles. But I wanted most of structures to be above ground. I tried to place a table, but was told they could only be placed inside! Oh no! There went my plan. Could you make it so that kobolds can build furniture where ever they want? I know that (classically) they usually live in caves, but kobolds living above ground does happen, unlike with dwarves.

It does document the buildings- note the table of contents.

And I wish I could let tables be placed outside, unfortunately it's something hardcoded. All I can say for living above ground is that you have to build wooden houses. It does cost a fair bit of wood, so let me mention some tips: Normally it's 1 wood per tile, but you only need this for the walls. You can completely bypass this by not placing wooden floors. And as for a roof (to actually make it inside), you can build a bridge for 1/3 of the amount of wood required. The bridge is all that I believe is required to make the tiles under it indoors, though; so you can skimp on the walls if you don't care to build full on houses.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 21, 2010, 11:02:41 pm
Ver 0.9 up! (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

No wall of text to say this time. Finished reactions, the main problem this time is that apparently building armor (at least through reaction) auto-sizes the armor to dwarves. In other words, kobolds build armor too big for themselves. Can't believe I didn't notice this with shell helmets earlier. Anyways, seems like they've just got to be kickass at blocking. Also as per recommendation, I resorted the readme. Also put in dungeon master tasks to shamans, leading into the top of the list now, custom exotic mounts to kobolds.

Wow, that completely sucks about the Armor Size problem. Do all shops build only Dwarf Sized equipment now, or is it only Custom Workshops?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 21, 2010, 11:23:35 pm
Wow, that completely sucks about the Armor Size problem. Do all shops build only Dwarf Sized equipment now, or is it only Custom Workshops?

You know, I don't actually know. In 40d I remember kobolds would make it their own sizes though (though it was hard, given, well, kobold camp.)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lofn on April 21, 2010, 11:55:05 pm
I'm pretty sure armour reactions have always made large armour, even in 40d.  It's not a new thing.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 22, 2010, 12:27:54 am
I'm pretty sure armour reactions have always made large armour, even in 40d.  It's not a new thing.

Nope, I had a Kobold Camp in 40D and they all had full suits of Copper Plate which we traded for/forged on site thanks to some handy migrants.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 22, 2010, 12:33:45 am
So after a few hours, ver 0.92 is up. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

I like to put in some time between releases, but this time is not that time. Had a few mistakes andwhatnot, but the major component is one word. Trading. After great amounts of suggestions, entity tweaking and one-year-long camps, you can now get kobold caravans. I've also settled on letting embark stone stay, thus, masonry/engraving has been added.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 22, 2010, 12:55:16 am
I'm pretty sure armour reactions have always made large armour, even in 40d.  It's not a new thing.

Nope, I had a Kobold Camp in 40D and they all had full suits of Copper Plate which we traded for/forged on site thanks to some handy migrants.
Later versions of KC 40D had you making shell and bone Platemail in the craft shop that they would wear perfectly fine. I had one military bold leader that had was equiped with a copper spear a full set of goat bone armor and an artifact goat bone helm (that included a Mountain goat skull). sadly I got bored with that Camp since I had my strongest warrior (not the artifact holder) take down a GCSwallow. he had shell plate
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 22, 2010, 12:58:16 am
I'm pretty sure armour reactions have always made large armour, even in 40d.  It's not a new thing.

Nope, I had a Kobold Camp in 40D and they all had full suits of Copper Plate which we traded for/forged on site thanks to some handy migrants.
Later versions of KC 40D had you making shell and bone Platemail in the craft shop that they would wear perfectly fine. I had one military bold leader that had was equiped with a copper spear a full set of goat bone armor and an artifact goat bone helm (that included a Mountain goat skull). sadly I got bored with that Camp since I had my strongest warrior (not the artifact holder) take down a GCSwallow. he had shell plate

Can we still make Shell and Bone armor in the new 2010 camps, or is non-custom stuff still Dwarf sized? If I can't have a beaten native copper breastplate I can at least have a guy wearing the bones of his enemies as crappy protection.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bloogonis on April 22, 2010, 01:03:26 am
I'm pretty sure armour reactions have always made large armour, even in 40d.  It's not a new thing.

Nope, I had a Kobold Camp in 40D and they all had full suits of Copper Plate which we traded for/forged on site thanks to some handy migrants.
Later versions of KC 40D had you making shell and bone Platemail in the craft shop that they would wear perfectly fine. I had one military bold leader that had was equiped with a copper spear a full set of goat bone armor and an artifact goat bone helm (that included a Mountain goat skull). sadly I got bored with that Camp since I had my strongest warrior (not the artifact holder) take down a GCSwallow. he had shell plate

Can we still make Shell and Bone armor in the new 2010 camps, or is non-custom stuff still Dwarf sized? If I can't have a beaten native copper breastplate I can at least have a guy wearing the bones of his enemies as crappy protection.
In theory, It hasnt worked for me, they always get stuck in a loop trying to use the same shell over and over with nothing actualy being made.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lofn on April 22, 2010, 01:05:32 am
Nope, I had a Kobold Camp in 40D and they all had full suits of Copper Plate which we traded for/forged on site thanks to some handy migrants.

Note that I said -reactions-, not the standard workshop jobs.  Forging and crafting both still work fine.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: bobsnewaddress on April 22, 2010, 01:11:18 am
Nope, I had a Kobold Camp in 40D and they all had full suits of Copper Plate which we traded for/forged on site thanks to some handy migrants.

Note that I said -reactions-, not the standard workshop jobs.  Forging and crafting both still work fine.

True. I guess it isn't so bad that we're limited to Leather & Bone for fort-made armor though since it makes the rare Skilled Migrant an even more valuable commodity, as well as trading for goods from the Kobold Homeland a necessity. Its not like a Kobold can really do anything in terms of combat anyway: I was just testing some things in the arena and a Grand Master Wrestling kobold with a ton of points in Fighting, Dodging, etc. was torn apart in 3 rounds by an unskilled dog.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Chariot on April 22, 2010, 11:59:30 am
For some reason the version of botany mod included in this is the 40d version, not the df2010 version. That may cause problems.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 22, 2010, 12:14:29 pm
Completely forgot there was a botany mod in this... so far it doesn't seem to have caused problems like the 40d angler mod, but I haven't seen anything in it either, so it is just being an odd wheel. Thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 22, 2010, 12:50:55 pm
Hey Lagotrope, why were the bone/shell armors cut from 40d Kobold Camp? Raw changes?

Hmm, I always wondered about having "Advances"... with custom workshops, it's a bit of a possibility. Have a t1 workshop create basic stuff and one "special" item. t2 workshop requires the "special" item to be made along with whatever resources and so on.

Allows Kobolds to advance to smelting without being overpowered... only issue is migrants and embark. Eh... think it'd be too difficult to control the initial part of it.

Anyway, got a decent camp going in KC0.92. Just workin on military.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 22, 2010, 01:09:39 pm
Looks like Shaman isn't able to tame exotic pets. The tag looks right but I can't seem to get him to tame a two-legged rhino lizard.

Also, looks like a lot of the vermin need to have pet/pet_exotic tags added to them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 22, 2010, 05:30:45 pm
Probably raw changes, honestly I don't remember anymore. But I will be looking to see if I can get them with non-custom reactions again, having found that reaction armor is too large. Also, what do you have in mind for a workshop creating a special item then workshop 2 using that item? Sort of like how a smelter makes bars, then the forge uses those to make weapons, or something different entirely?  I'm not quite sure what you mean by allowing kobolds smelting, though.

And shaman having exotic pets is more a placeholder right now, doesn't change much. And in the case of dwarves, the dungeon master didn't actually need to do the taming. Any dwarf with the right animal job could inside of the Kennels, just needed the DM to be in your fort.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on April 28, 2010, 05:50:10 pm
I thought it was the DM who had to do it himself, he was the one who always tamed the exotics in 40d, though it may have changed in .31
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 30, 2010, 02:21:48 am
Kobold Camp FINAL (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

Alright, it's been a busy week, and I hardly worked on it, but I tapered off what there is to finish it. In the end, I decided not to make any custom monsters for kobolds to tame (though shaman still acts as a DM, or at least SHOULD.) As a result, I simply tweaked a little here and there and added [BARRED] to armor. In theory, said armor should be able to be made out of bone at the right size.

I was going to wait till 31.04 came, but got impatient. So there's not much different between this and .92. Still, despite this being called the final version (often in caps at that), it's more just that I'll stop being so formal about it with changelogs and documentation and all the things respectable modders should do. I'll still fix any bugs you guys find out, I'll still port it to 31.04, 31.05 and so forth as they come out, and if there's a great new release that allows more to be done with reactions and reactions make armor at the right size... I may just open it up to work on again for all the things I intended to be in here but couldn't. Long paragraph short, I'll still be listening to feedback.

But until then, it's been great, and now I'm going to actually sit back and make my forts less for debug and more for fun. Thank you very much for your interest, everyone~
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 30, 2010, 07:06:03 am
Sorry to hear that, Lagotrope. :(

Gonna test out this version now. Thanks for the hard work! :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: TheMirth on April 30, 2010, 08:44:40 am
Thanks for the hard work. It's a great unique mod.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 30, 2010, 02:29:19 pm
No errorlog has popped up yet it doesn't seem possible to make any sort of armor. :X

Have bones and shells yet no option ever comes up.

Easiest way to test if it works is through Job Manager. Nothing with armor even pops up.

I tried to fix it myself but I can't seem to figure it out. Looking at Deon's Genesis mod, everything seems right... just wondering if there's just a open tag somewhere; but it would create an errorlog... <shrug>
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 30, 2010, 03:04:41 pm
No errorlog has popped up yet it doesn't seem possible to make any sort of armor. :X

Have bones and shells yet no option ever comes up.

Easiest way to test if it works is through Job Manager. Nothing with armor even pops up.

I tried to fix it myself but I can't seem to figure it out. Looking at Deon's Genesis mod, everything seems right... just wondering if there's just a open tag somewhere; but it would create an errorlog... <shrug>

I was sort of iffy on it working, honestly. Even with vanilla [BARRED] armor, I've never seemed to be able to make any. Kind of bums me out, but that's why I'm still paying attention to the changes in future patches.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 30, 2010, 03:35:50 pm
Well, in vanilla DF2010, you can make bone leggings/greaves/gauntlets/helms and shell leggings/gauntlets/helms at a craftsdwarf's workshop. Probably mod functionality for breastplate/chainmail somehow.

I don't understand why in Kobold Camp the options aren't even there at the craft shop. :(
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 30, 2010, 04:45:25 pm
Alright, arbitrarily slapped on some more tags for the armor, I think it was [scaled] that should have been there. Either way, it should be working fine now, and I'm uploading it atm. Let me know if there's still issues, thanks for pointing out where they should appear.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 30, 2010, 05:04:13 pm
I tried the same thing but reproduced same problem.

Like I said, the tags seem to be right... but I just can't figure it out.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on April 30, 2010, 09:29:47 pm
I actually tested it, so it was apparently something that was not [scaled]. Only reason why it wouldn't be working now is if I repacked it wrong.

Speaking of repacking wrong, I realized I forgot to delete test saves before the last upload; seeing 12.something megabytes likely looked wrong. Fixed that up.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on April 30, 2010, 09:37:36 pm
Ah, you updated the link on the previous page, right?

Gonna re-download the final one and see if it's fixed now.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Emperor Iones on May 01, 2010, 12:35:15 pm
edit: bug fixed
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on May 01, 2010, 01:43:34 pm
Remove the Angler Mod and regen a world,  the Angler Mod was made for 40d
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Vattic on May 01, 2010, 06:43:08 pm
I really enjoyed the odd game of Kobold Camp back in 40d, fantastic to see the mod working in 0.32.01. I have had one problem though, when my population passed 50 I lost all my nobles save the Trader and the Hoardcounter. Having looked in the raws it looks like I'm supposed to get the Village Chief but I had no luck. Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Custom nobles have been giving me a headache for the last two days on my own mod, it's as if the problem is following me around.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: DracoGriffin on May 01, 2010, 06:48:01 pm
All I can think of is the bug with mayors/nobles. I had over 80 pop a few versions back with no issues so can't say anything for sure yet.

As soon as I hit the milestone again, I'll post if any problems pop up.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on May 01, 2010, 06:55:11 pm
I really enjoyed the odd game of Kobold Camp back in 40d, fantastic to see the mod working in 0.32.01. I have had one problem though, when my population passed 50 I lost all my nobles save the Trader and the Hoardcounter. Having looked in the raws it looks like I'm supposed to get the Village Chief but I had no luck. Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Custom nobles have been giving me a headache for the last two days on my own mod, it's as if the problem is following me around.

I notice you mention 32.01, I assume you mean 31.01- are you using Pathos' or mine? If mine (and you meant 31.03), I'll see what I can do to fix it, otherwise, hard for me to tell offhand whether or not the issue persists in mine. A fair chance it does persist, and a chance it does not.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Vattic on May 01, 2010, 09:45:14 pm
I meant 31.01. I didn't read the whole topic and completely missed your version, I'll have to give it a try.

Edit to add that I'm now playing the FINAL version. I know humans have always been quite powerful creatures in DF but all my worlds genned for kobold camp have no elves, no goblins, few dwarves but plenty of humans. Is there any way around this problem?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on May 02, 2010, 02:53:56 pm
I meant 31.01. I didn't read the whole topic and completely missed your version, I'll have to give it a try.

Edit to add that I'm now playing the FINAL version. I know humans have always been quite powerful creatures in DF but all my worlds genned for kobold camp have no elves, no goblins, few dwarves but plenty of humans. Is there any way around this problem?

You might try genning a larger world- smaller ones have a tendency to skimp on the variety of entities. On top of that, you may be letting worldgen run for a long time, letting a race take over much of the others. You could try stopping the worldgen early on.

Also, is this a problem you have only in kobold camp, or vanilla as well?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Vattic on May 02, 2010, 06:21:49 pm
It seems I was lucky with my first few vanilla worlds as, while looking for solutions to the problem, I found topics from other people having this same problem in vanilla. Elves and goblins can't spread by taking over cities or forts and tend to fall against the humans and dwarves who can take dark towers and cities. Caves weaken nearby sites enough to allow them to fall to siege.

Does anyone in here have the world gen params for a world with all the races? I'd use one for vanilla but the changes in the raws change how the world turns out.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Pathos on May 03, 2010, 05:47:18 pm
This is all coming on very nicely. =p

Whoever's updating the mod should definitely move it to a new thread, though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on May 03, 2010, 06:41:06 pm
I tried, oh, I tried. Would've been nice to have a consistent link at the first post. But it was not to be; people kept posting in this thread leaving mine unbumped, so I let it go.

Though I'm more or less done with what there is now, so there's little point in me doing it now.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: blackmagechill on May 06, 2010, 10:02:03 pm
Spider,bug,snake, and odds and ends stuff training now. Kobolds are reliant on thieves and war beasts.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: ydirbut on May 08, 2010, 01:09:08 am
Hey, did you guys change anything with Channeling? When I try to Channel, it creates an open space in the floor, but the space below remains a wall.

Nevermind, it was because the layer is rock and not ore
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: ydirbut on May 08, 2010, 02:56:25 pm
What happens when A kobold breaks a limb, Since you can't get gypsum or plaster? Does he just die?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on May 11, 2010, 05:15:57 am
yeah I believe you're pretty much screwed, though i wonder if you could make a functional cast thing out of  bone,mud and grass.    No probably not, I don't think it has the lasting power.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: roqi on May 11, 2010, 06:05:20 am
Minor, but stupid bug: I got Iron Bone Armor and Leather Bone Armor. I changed the adj in my game raws to "crude", now.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on May 29, 2010, 02:03:46 am
I've just spent a fair bit of time catching up some Kobold Camp threads. I felt sympathy for the critters, but now even more so.

Anyway, thought I'd contribute an idea since earlier I read some people talking about making a "bow" object that would be used to hurl throwing axes, and I had a bit of an inspiration: Atlatl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlatl). It's a stick shaped and used to increase the throwing distance and power for spears. It might be appropriate to call the thrown spears "javelins" to distinguish them from melee spears.

---

For my own contribution to how I'm starting to think about kobolds and the DF world:

I kind of get the feel that dwarves have gone the way of technology, believing themselves to be superior, entitled beings in control of nature. When a dwarven fortress is in trouble, they solve it with their superior technology and machismo. One of the biggest dangers to a dwarf fortress comes in the form of performing overblown hazardous operations just to prove that they can do it.

Kobolds are the opposite of dwarves, being at the mercy of the world. They have to scrape for every tiny thing they can get their hands on. They are looked down upon by the more advanced races and have learned humility as a result. Because they know that they're small and weak, they're more likely to plead with the gods/spirits/whatever for help. That's where one idea of mine comes comes in: A magic altar "workshop" to the kobold gods: They sacrifice some kind of material (possibly live animals) to gain some form of gift from those gods in the form of resources they normally have a hard time accessing.

---

Putting aside making something custom, one entertaining thought I had closer in the KC mainstream was a camp somehow getting an anvil, making a raised "altar" for the workshop, placing some metal bars they traded for at the base, and praying for the gods to touch one of their kind with inspiration (strange mood) so that they may unlock the secret magic of the bearded ones and achieve some modest measure of prosperity.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Aether on June 08, 2010, 05:05:21 am
Thought of some interesting ideas that would allow the little fellas to make materials that will help them survive a little better. Maybe will involve sacrificing a lot of materials to get a piece of a harder and more valuable material, or alternatively using rare gems and materials to convert them into better materials. This would probably take place over a altar (If you've ever played any rogue-type games, altars can be used to sacrifice or transmute things).  Sort of on the same train of thought bronze is on.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on June 09, 2010, 01:58:34 am
Back from the grave to do a quick update to 31.05.


...that's really about it. If I feel motivated later I'll implement those couple ideas that were just mentioned. Also I added littersize:2:6, which does not generate an error, but I'm unsure if it actually works. If it does, the kobolds are back to 2~6 pups a pop. Otherwise the normal 1~3 if I recall right.

Click for 31.05 kobold camp. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Asra on June 13, 2010, 09:08:16 am
Plays great. I hope you'll keep updating it for the newer versions. Or at least release one once the final bugfixes are done.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Pathos on June 18, 2010, 06:07:56 am
Back from the grave to do a quick update to 31.05.

...that's really about it. If I feel motivated later I'll implement those couple ideas that were just mentioned. Also I added littersize:2:6, which does not generate an error, but I'm unsure if it actually works. If it does, the kobolds are back to 2~6 pups a pop. Otherwise the normal 1~3 if I recall right.

Click for 31.05 kobold camp. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

Good stuff.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on June 25, 2010, 02:57:09 am
Alright, updated Kobold Camp to Version 31.08 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)


There were changes to the DF raws this time so I did attempt to work around them. Nevertheless, as usual, let me know if there's any problems.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lokii on June 26, 2010, 12:35:48 am
I don't seem to be able to get this to work with a tileset. Very nice job, though, I love cutebolds >3<
I even drew you (although terrible) fanarts <3

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lofn on June 26, 2010, 11:29:44 am
Nice, Lokii.  I like the eyepatch.

Has anyone else noticed that spears are obscenely powerful?  My starting seven kobolds frequently take down families of giants, untrained and unarmoured.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on June 26, 2010, 01:50:34 pm
I don't seem to be able to get this to work with a tileset. Very nice job, though, I love cutebolds >3<
I even drew you (although terrible) fanarts <3

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Awesome kobold you've got there
Can't get it to work with a tileset? If you elaborate on what precisely you're trying to do, I may be able to help with/fix it.

Nice, Lokii.  I like the eyepatch.

Has anyone else noticed that spears are obscenely powerful?  My starting seven kobolds frequently take down families of giants, untrained and unarmoured.

I at the least have NOT noticed, and that's 7 shades of wrong. Why, they should be getting mauled apart by so much as a pack of wolves. The weapon values still elude me, but I'll toy around with them. Not worth patching that alone, but it should be changed in the next version.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on July 26, 2010, 04:39:41 pm
A bump for version 31.12 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

Also reverted a few more files back to vanilla, aside from all the changes between .08 and .12.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Tanase on July 29, 2010, 09:32:24 am
A bump for version 31.12 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

Also reverted a few more files back to vanilla, aside from all the changes between .08 and .12.

Thank you so much for all your hard work. Loved 40d Kobold Camp, and can't wait to dive into this new one.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: blackmagechill on July 29, 2010, 09:40:52 am
If you check world gen,kobolds regularly slay megabeasts and then get murdered by giraffes. It's think it's a matter of mentality.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Hydrall on July 29, 2010, 03:19:54 pm
I feel kind of dumb for asking this, but... Where can you make wooden weapons? I can't find them in the Craftsbold's Shop or the Carpenter's Shop. Can you only embark with wooden weaponry, not make it in the fortress camp?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: majikero on August 07, 2010, 08:30:09 pm
How to get iron weapons? And what does the other extra workshops do?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fluffy on September 02, 2010, 09:29:24 am
Will it be updated to the newest versions?
Or it dont needed?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: As Always on September 06, 2010, 06:26:18 am
I do love this mod, but how would I go about converting this to SDL? Or, since my modding capabilities are on par with the kobolds, are there any plans in the future for you guys to tackle that task?

Edited for seven kinds of stupidity. Dunno how I missed that it was already done.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: mcguinty on September 07, 2010, 01:08:30 am
A bump for version 31.12 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

Also reverted a few more files back to vanilla, aside from all the changes between .08 and .12.

Thank you so much for this.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on September 08, 2010, 06:45:50 am
Will it be updated to the newest versions?
Or it dont needed?

Yeah. I've quit adding content/workshops and all that, but I pop in now and again to convert KC to any newer DF versions. Seems like it's going to be at 31.12 for awhile though, looking at the progress logs.

Unless he's been putting newer test versions somewhere I'm missing and keeping 31.12 as the main download, like 40d was for awhile with say 40d18 in the forums. In which case, I'm probably way behind.

How to get iron weapons? And what does the other extra workshops do?

Iron weapons? Play dwarves. And for the other workshops.. huh I don't even remember. If you open up \raw\objects and look in the building_kobold/custom.txt files, you can likely get the idea of what's needed to make what item even if you don't know how to actually edit any of it.

I feel kind of dumb for asking this, but... Where can you make wooden weapons? I can't find them in the Craftsbold's Shop or the Carpenter's Shop. Can you only embark with wooden weaponry, not make it in the fortress camp?

(Only over a month to answer this!) The custom buildings are rather.. fubar'd, unfortunately. My modding memory has rusted over lack of activity leading to little confidence in why this is, but I think one of the nuances was to embark with the material required. I.E. if you start with wood then the custom wood reactions will be there, but otherwise they won't appear, even if you chop down trees. 3p isn't a crippling cost though for a slab of wood to embark with, the trouble is you shouldn't have to.

If you check world gen,kobolds regularly slay megabeasts and then get murdered by giraffes. It's think it's a matter of mentality.

They're only weak when you stop loving them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: The Doctor on September 08, 2010, 06:59:52 am
The answer is obviously we need to turn it into Cutebold camp.


Giraffes will love them, instead of kill them, and thus we will have Cuteraffes.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Xenos on September 15, 2010, 03:19:13 pm
Well, 31.12 was around for a bit, but now we have 31.13! yay for palindromic versions! :D  Also, must have....
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Deon on September 15, 2010, 03:29:40 pm
Giraffes will love them, instead of kill them
Kobold: size 20'000.
Giraffe: size 2'000'000.

Ewwww.....
I think it would be much worse than killing.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Solifuge on September 17, 2010, 03:15:58 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf Fortress/IndianaJreengus.png)

A *Gold Figurine* has been stolen by Indiana Jreengus, Kobold Archaeologist.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 17, 2010, 03:31:30 pm
I really need to learn how to play adventurer mode so that I can do stuff like that.

Mentioned an idea in another thread earlier today about having one player build a dwarven fortress that included traps and puzzles to protect an artifact, then give the save to kobold adventurers who'd try to steal it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Solifuge on September 17, 2010, 03:35:41 pm
Mentioned an idea in another thread earlier today about having one player build a dwarven fortress that included traps and puzzles to protect an artifact, then give the save to kobold adventurers who'd try to steal it.

Gentlemen, I believe I have an idea for the next DF Masters Competition (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40581.0).
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 17, 2010, 03:41:43 pm
Wow. Looks like I might get more than idle chatter out of the idea. I doubt I'd be competing, but I'd probably download the trap forts to see what sort of crazy puzzles skilled DFer's can make. And by 'see' I probably mean get my cutebold adventurers killed in gruesome fashion over and over.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on September 18, 2010, 09:09:17 pm
Ver 31.13 is now up. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071) (ignore that it says for version 31.12, it seems dffd hasn't put up 31.13 as an option yet)

This uses the SDL - if you want a legacy version and have no idea how to switch over manually, I'll put up a legacy version on request. Also I realized that in recent versions I forgot to pass over haggle's txt file, so in case you like his graphics the txt file is back in the base folder.

I enjoy this idea of traversing trap ridden fortresses. However, quoting the init file in regards to the option to disable traps in adv mode:

"This is not recommended -- there are lockup issues with cage traps, and you cannot disarm any of the traps yet, so they effectively stops you from exploring your old fortresses."

It probably goes without saying even without that init note, but the fortress creator should avoid using cage traps at all, but also to use some restraint in creating traps all around. Such as limit the amount of total traps you can lay, and limit the weapons per trap to 1-2 or so. Then again come to think, this has probably already been discussed in length in that other thread.

That being said, I have felt like doing some kobold adventuring, and would love to try this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 18, 2010, 09:23:18 pm
I suppose the traps would have to be of a less direct sort: Pull the wrong combination of levers when attempting to open the vault and lava flows in/rocks fall, everyone dies, for example.

Or change the challenge into building nonlethal puzzles.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Solifuge on September 18, 2010, 09:28:46 pm
Chest full of mined Ice "rocks". Carry one to a chamber, with a pressure plate triggered by 1/7 water, sitting directly on top of a magma-filled floor. Ice melts, water triggers, door opens. Voila.

Yeah, there's a number of options, so long as pressure plates work. I'm thinking of calling the challenge "Indiana Jreengus and the Lost City". Still got to work out the rules and such.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 18, 2010, 09:53:12 pm
Of course, if you're interested in building, you don't have to wait for the contest to start. ;)

I'd like to see what you can come up with.

Alternative idea on traps: They're only put in places where there's some form of warning a smart player should be able to spot. The dwarves who live there have to have some way to recognize where they are, in case they forget. A thief would be wise to notice something like out-of-place materials, slight asymmetries, etcetera.

---

On another note, I'm thinking about making my own little tweaks on Kobold Camp. Might even go as far as making a full language RAW if I can maintain some of the [UTTERANCES] 'feel' to it. Kind of developing my own ideas about them, like favoring hanging rings as decoration on items (they rattle!) or liking geometric shapes in engravings as "magic" patterns to bless the item or location (superstition!).

Also thinking of modding in an adventurer reaction or two for making trophies out of my defeated enemies, so my swordbolds can go around wearing necklaces made of wolf fangs or something.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on September 18, 2010, 11:25:29 pm
I'd love to build a fort made for these sorts of traps, unfortunately I don't have as much free time these days. The more I think about it, the more I think it could work out to be awesome

And by all means bronze, tweak as much as you like, the original kobold camp thread gave me the impression everyone had their own vision of what kobolds could and couldn't do. Able to mine stone or not, able to do masonry jobs, or even smelt. Even in 40d before I posted anything, I'd continually tweak them, sometimes so far as to the point that it was practically dwarf fortress just with kobolds. My attachment to kobolds is likely because, oddy enough, I was introduced to kobold camp before I was dwarf fortress.

The rendition I've posted here is primarily based on what Gobbo had designed, or what I think he would've designed it like, for the most part- the exception I feel is that kobolds can work with stone; the difficulty lies with GETTING the stone (as displayed with the 31.xx ability to make most stone unmineable.) Which reminds me about how I had to put in some jobs I didn't want in, since if one skill was disabled then that entire family of skills was disabled- I need to check to see if that's been fixed up, and will do some tweaking if so.

My point being, before I went on a tangent about my thoughts on why I made kobold camp the way I did, is that it was not made as a "this is how kobolds should be played and this is how they are" but "this is how they can be played, but it can be easily modded to however you would like to play." That being said,  if you manage to make a full language that still maintains that feel of Jribus and Cheelbus and Jrifikibi, I may very well insert that with your permission.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 18, 2010, 11:38:44 pm
Yeah, I'm not surprised you're cool with personalization. I'm going to be studying up on how to mod equipment to expand a little, like making an atlatl for firing javelins.

I'll be glad to share whatever I might come up with.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Xenos on September 19, 2010, 12:54:38 am
What I dont get is how kobolds cannot mine stone, but you can import it from the other kobolds... ???

I would love being able to mine stone but maybe limit the types of stone mineable?  (i.e. allow me to mine ores and stones which would be easier to mine (sedimentary stones) but not as many metamorphic or igneous.  But, I am too lazy to tweak the RAWS :p
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 19, 2010, 12:36:11 pm
Obviously, the homeland is a nexus of kobold thieves who steal large amounts of it. ;)
That, and lots and lots of socks. Including the ones they steal from your (the player's) dryer.

I'd definitely like it if there was some way to limit what you can dig through based on the material of the pick/shovel you're using.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on September 19, 2010, 01:04:26 pm
My knowledge of geology is lacking, I really wouldn't mind making the softer stones mineable- I just don't know which stones are "soft" and which would be unmineable. So far chert and I think shale are mineable, as well as precious metals (copper/silver/gold/platinum) more for flavor than realism. But if you say sedimentary stones are as a whole easier to mine then I may open those up, still keeping the others unmineable.

As soon as I realize if or how it's possible to mine stuff based on the material of the shovel used, however, I'll definitely jump on that. The biggest thing I'd like the kobolds to be about is not that it's flat out impossible to do certain things, just that it requires immense amounts of more work and danger than what dwarves have to do for the same result.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: The Doctor on September 19, 2010, 01:56:29 pm
So like, you COULD set up a permanent outpost in HELL, but it'd take 300 Kobolds, all armed with bronze shields and swords, with flowing red capes? Instead of the normal 70 Dwarfs in full Adamantine plate.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on September 19, 2010, 05:53:45 pm
So like, you COULD set up a permanent outpost in HELL, but it'd take 300 Kobolds, all armed with bronze shields and swords, with flowing red capes? Instead of the normal 70 Dwarfs in full Adamantine plate.

Indeed if it were possible, I'd mod it that way. It would be a vast amount of searching and work you'd have to do in order to get the shovels required to dig your way to hell. And chances are the kobolds are such slow learners that the best weaponsmith in the camp feels pride at his greatest accomplishment, the superior quality bronze short sword. And all your military would need to spend years specializing on a weapon and shield training to get good enough to hold a candle to hellspawn. Your entire fortress would have to have 100% focus on this permanent outpost. And after all is said and done, you'll probably still fail.

But the point? It was possible, and if you would succeed, it would be the greatest thing to happen for kobolds in the history of ever.

I've half a mind though to make those red flowing capes in game though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: The Doctor on September 19, 2010, 05:57:49 pm
New Canon: Kobolds are Spartans GOGOGOGO
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Solifuge on September 19, 2010, 11:08:42 pm
I've got a Neolithic/Simple Technology mod sitting on the backburner, that might mesh really well with Kobold Camp. I did research into early mining (it was done with antlers and horns), early smithing (native metals, cold-worked on a flat stone anvil), and industries that duplicate the utility of Masonry such as Clay, Mudbrick, Ceramics, and Bone-Ash Porcelain. I also know a good bit about Geology. The mod was intended to allow Dwarves to build tech all the way up from nothing, even if you were embarking with no resources whatsoever... but it would work well for Kobold Camp style tech too.

I've done all the homework on knapped stone tools, mining technologies, and what reactions were actually used to make different kinds of ceramics of different values and uses... but designing the mods themselves has never been one of my strong suits. If there was a modder who knew their way around the raws, I could definitely supply the research into primitive technology and industrial practices.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 19, 2010, 11:15:45 pm
I've got a Neolithic/Simple Technology mod sitting on the backburner, that might mesh really well with Kobold Camp. I did research into early mining (it was done with antlers and horns), early smithing (native metals, cold-worked on a flat stone anvil), and industries that duplicate the utility of Masonry such as Clay, Mudbrick, Ceramics, and Bone-Ash Porcelain. I also know a good bit about Geology. The mod was intended to allow Dwarves to build tech all the way up from nothing, even if you were embarking with no resources whatsoever... but it would work well for Kobold Camp style tech too.

I've done all the homework on knapped stone tools, mining technologies, and what reactions were actually used to make different kinds of ceramics of different values and uses... but designing the mods themselves has never been one of my strong suits. If there was a modder who knew their way around the raws, I could definitely supply the research into primitive technology and industrial practices.
You definitely need to get a modder buddy to work with.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Acanthus117 on September 19, 2010, 11:19:27 pm
I would love to play that, especially when Adventurers can do this sort of shit.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Xenos on September 19, 2010, 11:33:31 pm
I would love that too...if elves would stop ambushing in the second year...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Jordan~ on September 20, 2010, 02:03:59 am
Guuuh, maybe I'm being dumb, but when I unzip DF 31.13 and KC 31.13 into the same folder and gen a world, I'm playing as dorfs, not kobolds. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on September 20, 2010, 02:41:56 pm
I've got a Neolithic/Simple Technology mod sitting on the backburner, that might mesh really well with Kobold Camp. I did research into early mining (it was done with antlers and horns), early smithing (native metals, cold-worked on a flat stone anvil), and industries that duplicate the utility of Masonry such as Clay, Mudbrick, Ceramics, and Bone-Ash Porcelain. I also know a good bit about Geology. The mod was intended to allow Dwarves to build tech all the way up from nothing, even if you were embarking with no resources whatsoever... but it would work well for Kobold Camp style tech too.

I've done all the homework on knapped stone tools, mining technologies, and what reactions were actually used to make different kinds of ceramics of different values and uses... but designing the mods themselves has never been one of my strong suits. If there was a modder who knew their way around the raws, I could definitely supply the research into primitive technology and industrial practices.


This does sound like it'd work very well with kobold camp. Although I have just been poking in to update KC to newer versions and have been very busy for the last few weeks, I'd be willing to jump back into the raws if you tell me the stones that are realistically mineable, various stone tools and that sort of thing. I'd especially like it if it was based around the Aztecs, if they did anything particularly different in terms of mining and crafting that you know of. I kept meaning to add in Aztec type weapons to give it more flavor than "crude short sword", but never did get around to it.

Guuuh, maybe I'm being dumb, but when I unzip DF 31.13 and KC 31.13 into the same folder and gen a world, I'm playing as dorfs, not kobolds. Am I missing something?
Yeah, don't unzip DF31.13. KC 31.13 is stand alone, it's got all the stuff you need to play with, just run Dwarf Fortress.exe inside the KC31.13 folder and you should be good.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 20, 2010, 03:22:45 pm
One thing that's got my mind buzzing a bit was Soliforge's mention of ceramics. It seems like a potential new industry for both kobolds and dwarves, at least while the latter is stuck above an aquifer.

The general idea I have now is something like gathering clay in the manner you collect sand and making clay objects at a kiln. It'd also make a good building material, since you can make clay blocks (AKA bricks) for walls and such. You can make clay and ceramic pots that act like barrels or buckets, and naturally, you can make a variety of ceramic crafts.

I'm starting to like the idea of kobolds building adobe huts.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: turgidtoupee on September 20, 2010, 04:08:22 pm
Any chance of a download of this that's just the necessary raw files? I'm running linux so I have to find what's different in order to apply it
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on September 20, 2010, 04:45:14 pm
Any chance of a download of this that's just the necessary raw files? I'm running linux so I have to find what's different in order to apply it

Added:  Raws only (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3139)

Didn't think about having to do this, so let me know if I'm missing something/it doesn't work. Not really sure how linux changes things other than the obvious operating system difference.


In other news, I just realized that kobolds don't have training weapons! Perhaps I thought them unnecessary due to the training grounds, however I must not have been thinking right because sparring practice still includes essential shieldskill and armor use to make a complete part of your balanced kobold fighter.

I'll rectify this in the near future, perhaps alongside a language/primitive mining/goods that may be coming along. The use of the word FINAL, in hindsight, was bad foresight.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Bronze Dog on September 20, 2010, 05:27:08 pm
I'll rectify this in the near future, perhaps alongside a language/primitive mining/goods that may be coming along. The use of the word FINAL, in hindsight, was bad foresight.
Yup. This is DF. Nothing ever stops growing and changing. ;)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on September 22, 2010, 10:38:28 pm
It's now at version 1.1, I added in some aztec weapons and implemented a language for the most part, the details are in the readme changelog.

Standalone version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)
Separate raws (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3139)

Edit: Now for DF 31.14. I'll probably leave it here for awhile, on account of people who play this prooobably also like to have things like therapist, dfhack, etc etc and when I update right as a new version of DF comes out, therapist/etc no longer works with the version of KC posted. So I'll likely keep updating on par with what therapist at least has, so long as the new updates don't have critical changes.

Any problems, let me know
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Jordan~ on October 15, 2010, 10:19:03 am
My kobolds don't seem to want to eat their prickle berries. In fact, they'd rather starve. What's going on?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: NecroRebel on October 15, 2010, 10:24:35 am
My kobolds don't seem to want to eat their prickle berries. In fact, they'd rather starve. What's going on?
Kobolds are carnivores. Carnivores only eat meat. Prickle berries are not meat. So, Kobolds do not eat prickle berries.

Get yourself some meat, cook the meat and berries into a meal, and then the kobolds will eat the meal. They'll eat only meat, and meals that had meat as at least one ingredient. Also bones, since they're bone carnivores, which means that they're carnivores that eat bones.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Jordan~ on October 15, 2010, 11:40:49 am
Ahh. Ta.  That'll be why they didn't have a problem with the rat meat I embarked with.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: therealmarauder on October 19, 2010, 08:34:54 pm
I am having significant problems with Kobold Camp.

I got the latest version, copied the raws into a linux version of DF, ran it, and tried to tell a kobold to make a crafting workshop. Unfortunately, my kobolds have no crafting labors.

I can't find any reference to this anywhere. Clearly kobolds should be able to make arrows out of wood or bone, and make crafts out of wood, if only simple crafts, but my kobolds can't.

Does anyone have any idea why this might be happening? I really want to give this a try, but I don't know how any of my kobolds will be alive in even half a year if they have no ammo.

Help! I really want to give this a try, but I don't know how to do anything when all I seem to be able to do is build beds and hit things with shields.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 19, 2010, 09:49:20 pm
Sounds like there are a couple of tags missing from the raw files.
I think the tags you are looking for are [PERMITTED_JOB:xyz]
I'd take a look at the entity_default.txt and see if you can find the tags you want. (Unless stuff has been removed, I think the Dwarves will have all the jobs, etc.)

Of course, this might not be the problem, but it's where I would look.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: therealmarauder on October 20, 2010, 03:28:33 pm
That was a good idea, and it was my first thought, too, but, oddly, the jobs are there. Kobolds who embark with those skills have those jobs activated, but the jobs themselves are not listed. I even watched kobolds doing things I couldn't tell them to do or not to do using v-p-l.

Now I've presented a more puzzling conundrum. Kobolds CAN do the jobs, but the only menu items are mining, woodworking, healthcare, hauling, and other. I can't activate or deactivate any other jobs.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 20, 2010, 06:59:47 pm
That was a good idea, and it was my first thought, too, but, oddly, the jobs are there. Kobolds who embark with those skills have those jobs activated, but the jobs themselves are not listed. I even watched kobolds doing things I couldn't tell them to do or not to do using v-p-l.

Now I've presented a more puzzling conundrum. Kobolds CAN do the jobs, but the only menu items are mining, woodworking, healthcare, hauling, and other. I can't activate or deactivate any other jobs.
Now that is odd.
I remember there was one bug that meant rather than having the labours list, you had the option to slaughter them.
But, it sounds like you can access the labours list so it's probably not that.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: darkflagrance on October 20, 2010, 08:34:24 pm
Kobolds don't have the armorer job in their entity file, but dwarves do. This is causing the error.

The strange thing about how Dwarf Fortress processes the raws is that the lack of one job will disable all related jobs. So I'd guess that the lack of a [PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER] tag is causing this.

However, note that if you removed any job of a group of labors, such as STRAND_EXTRACTOR, which is considered a crafting job, this will also cause every other related job to disappear. Also, I think you have to regenerate a world to make jobs you re-enable for an entity available after you change their entity file.


Edit: I decided to test this myself, using the Separate raws (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3139). Interestingly, while all metalsmithing labors are disabled, as they should be due to the lack of armorer, I can assign all my kobolds to carry out crafting labors. You should try adding the armorer job anyway, but I think the problem is likely with your file rather than with the actual mod. It might be worth uploading it so we can take a look.



Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 20, 2010, 09:03:44 pm
Kobolds don't have the armorer job in their entity file, but dwarves do. This is causing the error.

The strange thing about how Dwarf Fortress processes the raws is that the lack of one job will disable all related jobs. So I'd guess that the lack of a [PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER] tag is causing this.

However, note that if you removed any job of a group of labors, such as STRAND_EXTRACTOR, which is considered a crafting job, this will also cause every other related job to disappear. Also, I think you have to regenerate a world to make jobs you re-enable for an entity available after you change their entity file.


Edit: I decided to test this myself, using the Separate raws (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3139). Interestingly, while all metalsmithing labors are disabled, as they should be due to the lack of armorer, I can assign all my kobolds to carry out crafting labors. You should try adding the armorer job anyway, but I think the problem is likely with your file rather than with the actual mod. It might be worth uploading it so we can take a look.

Right, ARMORER was removed to purposefully disable the whole tree, namely weaponsmith, blacksmith, metalcrafting and furnace_operator. I should've simply (and will) remove the other 4 for cleanliness' sake. Metal-usage was meant to be very limited. And while the limited mining would take care of this, a survived goblin siege would allow all sorts of crazy steel items if that tree was enabled. Thus, I disabled the family and made a buncha custom reactions as a workaround. Other than that the jobs are the exact same as vanilla dwarves, so I'm not sure what snafu'd the rest. Up to this point armorer hasn't been in for ages (if ever) and the skills have worked as expected.

Linux was always odd and never worked for me. Some of this may be because of rough, untested ports hopping from one version to the next; not surprised if some issues cropped up that I didn't notice. I'll work on a port to 31.16 soon and include the updated raws, with any luck that'll help. But I don't like linux and linux doesn't like me, so I can't promise much for marauder.

I'm very tired and I re wrote this post like 3 times. I'm not sure if it makes any sense.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 20, 2010, 10:27:32 pm
Alright then. Version 1.11 is up for 31.16. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)
Also the raws-only. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3139)

I noticed I had no trouble making a world with the default world_gen file, so it seems that you no longer need to double the amount of caves to be able to have a kobold civilization to play.

However, somewhere along the line, all stone became mineable again. I do not know why, and when I think about it, the last few versions have been built on aquifers during testing and I simply assumed it worked. Now that I think about it, this may have been a problem for awhile, I don't know. I changed the impact_fracture to 50 million instead of the usual 5 mil but it didn't change anything. Help on that would be lovely, as I felt that was one of the biggest things df2010 did for KC.

Otherwise the changes are pretty superficial (still in the readme changelog), and just done for sake of being a newer version. Hopefully it helps with that linux issue though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: NecroRebel on October 20, 2010, 11:20:31 pm
However, somewhere along the line, all stone became mineable again. I do not know why, and when I think about it, the last few versions have been built on aquifers during testing and I simply assumed it worked. Now that I think about it, this may have been a problem for awhile, I don't know. I changed the impact_fracture to 50 million instead of the usual 5 mil but it didn't change anything. Help on that would be lovely, as I felt that was one of the biggest things df2010 did for KC.
There's now an [UNDIGGABLE] tag that (surprisingly) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin) makes the stone it is applied to undiggable. IIRC, Toady added it after the version where raw adamantine was undiggable, and issues with the straight-up fix to that made him just add that tag to HFStone. Something like that. Regardless, now, stones that are [UNDIGGABLE] are undiggable, and stones without it aren't.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 21, 2010, 03:57:07 am
Thanks, NecroRebel. Quickly tested and it works as it should. I even noticed that tag. And I thought "huh." and kept fidgeting with impact fractures.

I find that bit of hindsight to be moderately depressing.

New files are updated, like nothing ever happened.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 21, 2010, 09:33:03 pm
I've just read through all previous Kobold Camp stuff, and have noticed there's a horrible lack of artwork recently...Oh, how I wish I was an artist.

But, the development here is second to none. I've not done any detailed tests, but everything checks out okay. Fortress mode is certainly playable... Double aquifer keeping me well away from the bed rock though, so I figured it best to save the landscape butchering to my mega wooden building projects. *tee hee*
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: therealmarauder on October 22, 2010, 12:32:33 pm
Why would armorer disabled cause crafting to be disabled?

Nevertheless, adding back all the crafting jobs, or ensuring they're all there, should be doable; I wonder if Toady will change that. It seems like a limitation that removing one job removes the whole process tree. Maybe jobs should have their own files, and job trees should get files, as well, making this sort of issue vanish.

Meanwhile, I'll add stonecrafting, etc until I get crafting, and other such jobs until I have what I want. Thanks!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 22, 2010, 04:42:28 pm
Why would armorer disabled cause crafting to be disabled?

Nevertheless, adding back all the crafting jobs, or ensuring they're all there, should be doable; I wonder if Toady will change that. It seems like a limitation that removing one job removes the whole process tree. Maybe jobs should have their own files, and job trees should get files, as well, making this sort of issue vanish.

Meanwhile, I'll add stonecrafting, etc until I get crafting, and other such jobs until I have what I want. Thanks!

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Skills (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Skills)

If you look in the skill section, you'll see what consitutes as a family; all within each box. So if you disable something in the Woodworker department (like bowyer) the other 2 skills (carpenter and woodcutter) will be disabled. What I'm getting at here is that disabling armorer will only disable the metalsmithing jobs (furnace operator, metal crafter, blacksmith and weapon smith). The Crafting family should be unaffected, as every job in that family is disabled. And testing shows that they're there.

In other words, I'm not sure why your skills aren't working as they should, but I can confidently say it's not because armorer is disabled (and in the recent version, all 5 skills in the metalsmithing jobs are removed, but all jobs everyone else are in place.)

I've just read through all previous Kobold Camp stuff, and have noticed there's a horrible lack of artwork recently...Oh, how I wish I was an artist.

But, the development here is second to none. I've not done any detailed tests, but everything checks out okay. Fortress mode is certainly playable... Double aquifer keeping me well away from the bed rock though, so I figured it best to save the landscape butchering to my mega wooden building projects. *tee hee*

Those aquifers have been real common in 2010.. last couple versions though haven't been as big of a problem (though very small island still seems to be 80% aquifer.) The bedrocks generally supposed to be unmineable anyhow though so I haven't paid it much mind; it's only a pain if you would otherwise get lucky with a chert/shale ground, or a gold vein or such precious mineral that's left mineable.

This does remind me that I kinda wish there was a way to make trees grow back faster; as your little land zone tends to run out quite quickly when you build with wood. It'll probably be a long time before Toady implements such things as sending out lumber parties. I'm toying with the idea of making a reaction for processed wood; essentially giving you 2 logs for one. I don't know/remember how I'd make it so that processed wood can't be used for the reaction though, otherwise it'd be infinite wood.

Speaking of ideas I'm unsure about, not sure if I care to have kobolds have an actual language. Feels kinda weird. Doesn't help that the names tend to be -really- long, even longer than the utterances tended to be. Although I liked the idea of them being able to actually have a language, the way it plays out seems to make it feel a bit more distant from its roots than I hoped, so I may take it out next version (still leaving in the kobold.txt file though to make it easy to add back in if people please.) Maybe I've just been feeling nostalgia over the simpler days of 40d, when KC was a barely-operational project. Back when neither the kobolds OR myself knew what we were doing.

(http://i53.tinypic.com/x4qewy.png)

I can't believe I lost the actual save to this fort, I could've gotten a much better screenshot than the aftermath.

This was, if you couldn't figure, back in the 40d days, and I tended to have rather advanced kobolds back then.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 23, 2010, 01:12:00 pm
But, the development here is second to none.
I think I might have worded that wrong. Urgh, my [UTTERANCES] are coming though.
I meant to say I love what you've done with it, and how well you're keeping it up to date. And I apologize for my failure of communication there.

This does remind me that I kinda wish there was a way to make trees grow back faster; as your little land zone tends to run out quite quickly when you build with wood. It'll probably be a long time before Toady implements such things as sending out lumber parties. I'm toying with the idea of making a reaction for processed wood; essentially giving you 2 logs for one. I don't know/remember how I'd make it so that processed wood can't be used for the reaction though, otherwise it'd be infinite wood.
I did think perhaps you could make *gulp* yet another custom workshop!
One that deals with carpentary jobs for things like sawdust and half-logs, things like that. That way at least you can turn standard logs into items that do tasks, but aren't the same.

Speaking of ideas I'm unsure about, not sure if I care to have kobolds have an actual language. Feels kinda weird.
I quite agree with you there, but the trouble is that some functionality is lost without it.
I like the idea of Kobolds without second names, but on the other hand, you don't have Fortress Names without languages..
I don't really mind either way though. Having it optional would be quite good I guess!

And, that comic was great. Made me giggle!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 23, 2010, 05:12:50 pm
I did think perhaps you could make *gulp* yet another custom workshop!
One that deals with carpentary jobs for things like sawdust and half-logs, things like that. That way at least you can turn standard logs into items that do tasks, but aren't the same.

Right... I think I will need to make another custom workshop, again. Still, worried about how to make the processed wood ineligible to be processed again. Maybe make the product logs act as blocks, that might work. It should be possible though, so I'll look into that in the near future.

Almost definitely will remove the [TRANSLATION:KOBOLD] tag from the kobold entity but leave in kobold.txt for that option. Come to think, wonder what happens if kobolds have utterances, but the entity a language.. have a feeling utterances will supersede it, but I will test this.

EDIT: Utterances indeed supersedes any language. Even if it's just added to a caste, makes no difference. Does make it easy adding/removing a language though, just having to remove/add the [UTTERANCES] tag.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 23, 2010, 05:15:01 pm
Right... I think I will need to make another custom workshop, again. Still, worried about how to make the processed wood ineligible to be processed again. Maybe make the product logs act as blocks, that might work. It should be possible though, so I'll look into that in the near future.
Wooden blocks are a point I didn't think of.
Thinking about it like that, Sawdust isn't really that useful.. But, I think blocks would perhaps work better than half logs at anyrate.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: therealmarauder on October 23, 2010, 08:43:06 pm
Now I'm getting segfaults on worldgen.
DF just segfaulted on me.


What happened was this: I edited the entity_default.txt file so kobolds would have the complete crafting and farming trees.

I ran df.

I generated a world with default parameters.

DF segfaulted.

(I tried it several times. Now, if the problem continues, I will have no choice but to kill small furry creatures.)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 23, 2010, 08:47:31 pm
Now I'm getting segfaults on worldgen.
DF just segfaulted on me.


What happened was this: I edited the entity_default.txt file so kobolds would have the complete crafting and farming trees.

I ran df.

I generated a world with default parameters.

DF segfaulted.
I've not run into a segfault, or at least, haven't heard of them. I'm hoping you've tried this twice at least though to make sure it's not just a one off.
Next, back up that entity_default and return the active one to default settings and try again.
If the problem persists after that, then I'd redownload it and stick in your backup file.

..And, please let me know if I'm jumping the gun here, I'm not 100% certain you're asking for help, but I'd rather not leave someone stuck for what to do.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: therealmarauder on October 23, 2010, 08:50:25 pm
Oh, thank you! Now maybe I won't kill small furry creatures.

Edit: I redownloaded the raw, and now I, unfortunately, still get segfaults.

Edit: I recopied DF and moved all the raws, and now I am not getting segfaults.
Then I reedited, and didn't get segfaults.
Now we see if it works. I hope it does.

I can see the things now. But, for some reason, my kobolds can't embark with a chopper any more.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 23, 2010, 11:24:49 pm
Sounds like your segfault issue was in the program. Perhaps it was a download error.

This new problem however is a bit stranger. I don't suppose you could post the sections of the RAW you edited, could you?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: therealmarauder on October 24, 2010, 12:56:09 am
Just the job_permitted segments. I inserted the entire woodworking, the entire crafting, and the entire farming trees.

[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CHOPPER] is still in entity_default.txt, as is shovel and bow and short sword. I haven't been able to embark with any of these, either, but maybe that's a failure of the version I downloaded. I downloaded from the link at the start of this thread, btw.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 24, 2010, 03:15:24 am
Just the job_permitted segments. I inserted the entire woodworking, the entire crafting, and the entire farming trees.

[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CHOPPER] is still in entity_default.txt, as is shovel and bow and short sword. I haven't been able to embark with any of these, either, but maybe that's a failure of the version I downloaded. I downloaded from the link at the start of this thread, btw.

There's your problem, and the problem with this thread in general- the post at the start of the thread is from another person, who just started kobold camp's 31.xx version before he went inactive on it and I picked it up. His version is from mid-april I believe, before he stopped updating. Now you have to go for the version -last- posted. This explains pretty much everything, namely why your jobs are acting up.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 24, 2010, 10:38:18 am
I downloaded from the link at the start of this thread, btw.
That does indeed explain the trouble.

I can't help but think you've already thought of this, Lagotrope, but perhaps a new thread is in order for the 1.x versions of Kobold Camp? ;D
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 24, 2010, 03:29:13 pm
That does indeed explain the trouble.

I can't help but think you've already thought of this, Lagotrope, but perhaps a new thread is in order for the 1.x versions of Kobold Camp? ;D

That I have, and in fact already tried once back at version .8 or something. But (maybe I didn't give it enough time) my thread was unmoved, and posts kept coming in this older thread. Perhaps it's about time I try again, this isn't the first time people keep downloading Pathos'.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 24, 2010, 03:42:09 pm
Perhaps it's about time I try again, this isn't the first time people keep downloading Pathos'.
I think it's got a better chance of success, what with "VERSION 1.X, DOWNLOAD HERE!" or something.
Even just "UPDATED xx/xx" would be  good, because then we'd know that's it's more recent.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: HammerHand on October 25, 2010, 12:01:52 pm
Posting here to remind myself to try this sometime!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: wrytalin on October 26, 2010, 12:44:42 am
Wood mechanisms seem to be bugged for me. After producing just one mechanism to begin with, my engineer now just hauls a log out to the shop, spends a few seconds IRL-time with it, and then the log disappears with no mechanism produced.

(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/1867/woodmechanisms.jpg)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: NecroRebel on October 26, 2010, 01:29:17 am
Wood mechanisms seem to be bugged for me. After producing just one mechanism to begin with, my engineer now just hauls a log out to the shop, spends a few seconds IRL-time with it, and then the log disappears with no mechanism produced.
That's not a bug. The reaction eats a log every time it is run, but has only a 40% chance of producing a mechanism. The fact that you apparently got a mechanism the first time you ran it was a fluke. Just run it several more times, and you will eventually get more mechanisms.

It's to make it so that kobolds can't just trap the crap out of everything as effortlessly as dwarves can. Kobolds suck so much that everything is harder, even the easy stuff. That's why it's a challenge mod  8)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Blackdutchie on October 26, 2010, 01:34:16 am
It's a very funny and nicely-drawn piece of artwork though!
Please find and document stuff more often!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: wrytalin on October 26, 2010, 03:00:57 am
Wood mechanisms seem to be bugged for me. After producing just one mechanism to begin with, my engineer now just hauls a log out to the shop, spends a few seconds IRL-time with it, and then the log disappears with no mechanism produced.
That's not a bug. The reaction eats a log every time it is run, but has only a 40% chance of producing a mechanism. The fact that you apparently got a mechanism the first time you ran it was a fluke. Just run it several more times, and you will eventually get more mechanisms.

It's to make it so that kobolds can't just trap the crap out of everything as effortlessly as dwarves can. Kobolds suck so much that everything is harder, even the easy stuff. That's why it's a challenge mod  8)

Oh, well I guess I'll just keep making my 100% chance of being produced stone mechanisms out of imported rocks, then.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 26, 2010, 04:58:58 am
Oh, yes, much of the dev that I've forgotten about. Partial chance of wood mechanisms, the rock importing that made that a bit asinine... may just make the wood mechanics 100% since wood is pretty valuable and because of the rocks, and to avoid confusion (and unfortunately perhaps a comic that made me giggle.)

Originally you couldn't import rocks and ideally it would've stay that way, but it messed up other stuff, what that was I forgot. I think its absence made other things go missing like choppers or somesuch. The whole thing gave me trouble, enough that I'd rather not touch it after reaching some kind of equilibrium.

But yes, NecroRebel said it as I intented, the way mechanics were set up was so that it was harder than normal to just make a 3x20 hallway into a cave completely laid through with traps, making a deathtrap that would most likely be better than a kobold army. Wood ones used to be real low like an 8% chance. Now they're not so bad, and it's more a player end choice of difficulty whether to embark with stone or not (or few stones.)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: HammerHand on October 26, 2010, 07:05:27 am
So, I got around to trying it out.

Haven't even embarked  yet, and saw that my civilization was "The Tome of Hugs."

I'm already screwed.  :D
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Deon on October 26, 2010, 08:26:12 am
Did you try to make most of the rocks undiggable and some soft ones diggable? It would allow you to live in soil and rarely get some rock.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on October 26, 2010, 09:15:34 am
The bedrocks generally supposed to be unmineable anyhow though so I haven't paid it much mind; it's only a pain if you would otherwise get lucky with a chert/shale ground, or a gold vein or such precious mineral that's left mineable.
As Lagotrope was saying, it's theoretically there, but it's difficult to test what with all the Aquifers about.

Gunna try sending some files too and from my computers now, since this one's been on the blink.
Should be able to get some serous testing done then.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on October 26, 2010, 05:18:01 pm
Did you try to make most of the rocks undiggable and some soft ones diggable? It would allow you to live in soil and rarely get some rock.

Yes, at the moment (last version was tested) all the sand and soft soil is diggable, and most rock undiggable (chert and shale for rocks, and then native copper/silver/gold/plat as well as gem-veins remain diggable) so actually digging for rocks works as intended. The problem I got going was that you can embark with stone, and given its cheapness you could easily spare enough points for say 100 rocks, enough to last a good while.

If I recall this was made by an entity tag that I forget, and I believe removing it also had some adverse effects, opting me to leave it in. Hence as I say, that part is on the player to decide whether he wants to make it easy or hard by embarking with stone. Once you're in though, an unmodded kobold camp will be difficult or at least require luck to get much stone beyond that.

Protip: If you embark on a tile in which two brooks (or rivers whatever) merge, then usually there's a good elevation difference between the rivers, making a waterfall and more importantly a modest number of z-levels of a cliffside. Usually somewhere along the cliff side, perhaps needing scaffolding to get to, there's often diggable veins for kobolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Horizonblue on October 31, 2010, 06:56:50 pm
I agree that there should be an update account for the newer versions.  Also, is their a way to for Kobolds to plant more trees?  Having the planter just start a grove of trees, even if they grow slowly, would make for a much easier time.  Is it possible?
Also, Bump for the Bump God.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: irdsm on October 31, 2010, 11:46:09 pm
I agree that there should be an update account for the newer versions.  Also, is their a way to for Kobolds to plant more trees?  Having the planter just start a grove of trees, even if they grow slowly, would make for a much easier time.  Is it possible?
Also, Bump for the Bump God.
I don't think theres a way to plant real trees, but it may be possible to mod a crop that gives wood when harvested

Also, I'm working on a few pets for kobold camp. So far I have Pet spiders (taking the place of cats), Mantis shrimp (pretty damn powerful, but not unreasonably so. Might need to nerf them to keep them in the tradition of kobold camp), and giant centipedes which have a weak paralyzing bite. I'm working on some pack animal types currently, maybe gigantic rats or large beetles. Not really sure. Anyways, if you're interested in including them with the mod I can post them as soon as their finished. It seems to me that kobolds should have their own set of animals, I can't see them with cats and cows and dogs and stuff.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Deon on November 01, 2010, 05:21:40 am
Did you try to make most of the rocks undiggable and some soft ones diggable? It would allow you to live in soil and rarely get some rock.

Yes, at the moment (last version was tested) all the sand and soft soil is diggable, and most rock undiggable (chert and shale for rocks, and then native copper/silver/gold/plat as well as gem-veins remain diggable) so actually digging for rocks works as intended. The problem I got going was that you can embark with stone, and given its cheapness you could easily spare enough points for say 100 rocks, enough to last a good while.

If I recall this was made by an entity tag that I forget, and I believe removing it also had some adverse effects, opting me to leave it in. Hence as I say, that part is on the player to decide whether he wants to make it easy or hard by embarking with stone. Once you're in though, an unmodded kobold camp will be difficult or at least require luck to get much stone beyond that.

Protip: If you embark on a tile in which two brooks (or rivers whatever) merge, then usually there's a good elevation difference between the rivers, making a waterfall and more importantly a modest number of z-levels of a cliffside. Usually somewhere along the cliff side, perhaps needing scaffolding to get to, there's often diggable veins for kobolds.
It's STONE_PREF. Without it you will be unable to buy stones from your parent civ. Also you could just increase the rock's value dramatically, because the rock SHOULD be valuable for kobolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on November 01, 2010, 07:18:07 am
Just a quick post here to say: Today I noticed that [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE] is listed twice in the entity_default file. (Once below choppers, and once below throwing hammers.)
Don't think it makes any difference, but it doesn't look too streamlined.

On a side note, I'm testing out having a seperate Kobold Civilization in my DF-proper.
Hopefully I should be able to play as Tribal Kobolds, while also being hostile towards feral Kobolds.
This should shake up the playing field a little bit.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on November 01, 2010, 04:39:27 pm
It's STONE_PREF. Without it you will be unable to buy stones from your parent civ. Also you could just increase the rock's value dramatically, because the rock SHOULD be valuable for kobolds.

Yes, stone_pref was it, but removing it had some effect that eludes me. I didn't think of increasing the rock value though, I'll take that route for sure, thank you.

Just a quick post here to say: Today I noticed that [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE] is listed twice in the entity_default file. (Once below choppers, and once below throwing hammers.)
Don't think it makes any difference, but it doesn't look too streamlined.

On a side note, I'm testing out having a seperate Kobold Civilization in my DF-proper.
Hopefully I should be able to play as Tribal Kobolds, while also being hostile towards feral Kobolds.
This should shake up the playing field a little bit.

Note is made, that'll be fixed in the next version.
I was also toying around with the idea of having a seperate kobold entity, the plus side being that I can leave entity_default untouched. Let me know how that goes for you.

I agree that there should be an update account for the newer versions.  Also, is their a way to for Kobolds to plant more trees?  Having the planter just start a grove of trees, even if they grow slowly, would make for a much easier time.  Is it possible?
Also, Bump for the Bump God.
I don't think theres a way to plant real trees, but it may be possible to mod a crop that gives wood when harvested

Also, I'm working on a few pets for kobold camp. So far I have Pet spiders (taking the place of cats), Mantis shrimp (pretty damn powerful, but not unreasonably so. Might need to nerf them to keep them in the tradition of kobold camp), and giant centipedes which have a weak paralyzing bite. I'm working on some pack animal types currently, maybe gigantic rats or large beetles. Not really sure. Anyways, if you're interested in including them with the mod I can post them as soon as their finished. It seems to me that kobolds should have their own set of animals, I can't see them with cats and cows and dogs and stuff.

Wood crops, that's an excellent idea if somewhat unrealistic (trees don't grow in a season) but it may be worth looking into. I'm pretty sure that's possible to make work.
As for animals/critters, I was definitely interested, but couldn't make creatures for the life of me (the raws in 31.xx escape my mind's grasp.) So if you finish those, I'd love to include them in.


Quite a few good ideas all of a sudden. I won't get started immediately though, I'd like to wait until the new version of DF is out, which if the log is to be believed won't be terribly long. I'll also try one more starting a new thread when all this is said and done.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: monk12 on November 01, 2010, 06:06:54 pm
If you do make a new thread, link to it from this one. Hopefully that'll help the migration, not to mention the fact that I don't visit this branch of the forums often and would likely miss it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on November 01, 2010, 08:31:19 pm
Okay, my first and only camp with a fully established civilization behind it is finnally underway..Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure about the status of the other Civilization of Kobolds...
There was only one listing of "Kobold" on the nabours screen and that was friendly, so there is a possibility that the game will only gen one civ per race. I'm hoping that's not the case though, and I think I'm gunna try running another world gen and checking the Ledgends instead.

While, this may take a slight tweak in the Civ's higherarchy, if the new towns and cities aren't too massive, setting the Kobold's native habitat to Town, it should theoretically make it gen Kobold towns that actually resemble what I expect the average camp to look like. I think it'd be pretty neat to grab quests from a Kobold Shaman, or Chieftain. :P

And, just a quick note~
I removed the Item_Theif tag from the Kobold-Town Civ, to try and build hostilities between them and regular Skulking Kobolds. While I can't determine the Skulking presence yet, I've noticed that Elves have become a lot more tolerant. It'd be nice if there was a way to pick and choose who attacks who by default, etc!

Can't wait for the new topic! .. Or the new version for that matter.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on November 02, 2010, 07:08:30 pm
Okay, my first and only camp with a fully established civilization behind it is finnally underway..Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure about the status of the other Civilization of Kobolds...
There was only one listing of "Kobold" on the nabours screen and that was friendly, so there is a possibility that the game will only gen one civ per race. I'm hoping that's not the case though, and I think I'm gunna try running another world gen and checking the Ledgends instead.

While, this may take a slight tweak in the Civ's higherarchy, if the new towns and cities aren't too massive, setting the Kobold's native habitat to Town, it should theoretically make it gen Kobold towns that actually resemble what I expect the average camp to look like. I think it'd be pretty neat to grab quests from a Kobold Shaman, or Chieftain. :P

And, just a quick note~
I removed the Item_Theif tag from the Kobold-Town Civ, to try and build hostilities between them and regular Skulking Kobolds. While I can't determine the Skulking presence yet, I've noticed that Elves have become a lot more tolerant. It'd be nice if there was a way to pick and choose who attacks who by default, etc!

Can't wait for the new topic! .. Or the new version for that matter.

Yes, if you copy/paste the humans default LIKES_SITE to TOWN/CITY or whatever it was, there will be kobold towns (and very likely keeps which isn't very camp like.) It's also astrew with all sorts of crazy side effects, even if you don't touch the other entities, toying with that sort of thing in 40d goes crazy; there'd be elves making human towns, dwarven forest retreats and human dark fortresses. All gets weird. Maybe it's better now.

And that might be possible about the one civ per race, I do know it's one race per civ (multiple race entries in one civ will make the game randomly pick one) though this was worked around with the caste system. It is possible though to make two different kobold races. I'm too rusty on the raws to recall, but there may have been a way for the identifier to be different (which they have to be) but still have both creatures be referred to as kobolds. Could have feral kobold and tribal kobold races, set up the entities, have the cake and eat it too.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Zander J on November 12, 2010, 06:06:22 pm
is there a mac version? i tried every which way to mess with the windows version but failed.

i want to play as kobolds....
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: SalmonGod on November 12, 2010, 06:17:54 pm
Don't know if this has been suggested or not, but you could mod in bamboo as a new farmable tree type.  That stuff grows ridiculously fast.  Its uses as a material are incredibly versatile, including edibility.  The only feasability issue left is its appropriateness in DF's ancient european setting, but it still feels really appropriate for kobolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Fayrik on November 12, 2010, 06:18:34 pm
Download the raw files then patch them into the game. I tend to use that way rather than using a seperate executable.

Also, I've done some research on buildings, civilizations and towns on 0.17. Forest Retreats don't generate buildings, it seems.
I also tried getting a town to spawn in the first layer of the caverns, but that didn't work.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp 2010 ( 0.31.01 ) ( ALPHA 0.3 ) ( UPDATED 06/04 )
Post by: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 08:41:21 am
New version is up! Haven't had so much time so I haven't added much of the latest inputs in, but hopefully I can make room for it. For now, it's just a port to the latest version of DF.

BUT I have made a new thread regardless. Please go there for links/responses/ever.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70558.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70558.0)