Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Bug Reports => Topic started by: Nikov on April 03, 2010, 10:31:13 pm
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'Deadly Rain', that is, rainfall which causes dwarves to melt to death, is a known little bug that I would like to arrange a group test of. My hypothesis is that exposed lava causes rain to heat up. Please only answer if you have temperature enabled.
Real quick reporting and testing thread.
1. You have deadly rainfall and exposed lava.
2. You have deadly rain, but no visible lava.
3. You have normal rain with exposed lava.
4. You have normal rain with no visible lava.
You can vote a maximum of four times, allowing you to check all that apply. If you can, go out and embark at lava, away from lava, on scorching terrain without lava, ect. Report findings in here. If Toady hasn't already started on this, we might be able to give him a good head start in finding the source of the problem. If he already has, this redundant thread can be deleted.
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#4 normal rain no lava exposed.
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Might be helpful if you also added in Biom info. I think it's related to getting pelted with super heated water in bioms near the "hot end" of the world map.
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Basically, if your dwarves start melting for no reason, start telling us about your embark.
I actively TRIED to replicate this bug, to no avail. I've tried many different embarks, no surface magma, moderate temperature so far.
Rumors have been flying around the net that it may be caused by water contaminates, because of sea spray sometimes liquidifying dwarves in the same fashion, or use of graphics sets, though I don't know why that would be an issue.
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Could it instead be heat, not rain? with the new body system could the "melting point" of things be set too low, so that too much heat would melt them?
So far ive embarked on freezing/cool/temperate which all started with no magma exposed and no melting when it rained. after exposing magma - still no melting.
PS: I'm a newbie when it comes to raws and the like, so im just guessing.
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I'm currently running a fort with this problem, the entrance is a large bridge spanning the width of a volcano, 1 layer above the lava.
The first fort reached 90 population without accident,then suddenly 40 of them died from this odd bug, extremities like heads and fingers taking damage - I don't recall there being rain at the time but I could be mistaken.
Reclaimed and reached a pop of 40, rain starts, then ends. Shortly after it ends i have 6 casualties. Shortly after, rain starts, 5 more casualties, rain ends.
However, I've had people fully covered in water walking past the rim of the volcano, as close to the lava as possible without being in it and suffering no wounds, it's also been many many years in both cases before I had melting people.
Close proximity to lava seems to be a problem though, I was dismantling some stone floors over the top of lava and had people dieing on the spot (however walking past the same area covered in water did nothing).
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The last few forts I made, the trigger actually seemed to be migrants arriving. weird, but it happened on 3 different occasions with 3 different forts with 3 unique locations.
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Hi!
I have forgotten to check whether it is possible, but I think you should be able to 'k' rain drops. If you can't that is pointless, but if you can, I would like to ask those people having these problems to 'k' rain drops during the deadly showers and see if there is some difference in the naming.
Just a thought I had.
Deathworks
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Hey Deathworks, ive tried k'ing my rain with no luck, it doesnt turn up as an "entity" per se, it just says "grass" or "dead shrub" liek normal. But it was a good idea to check.
EDIT: I'd like to throw in that my dorfs dont melt, so if yours do - see if you can 'k' the raindrops. Along those lines check the weather message, mine says the normal "It has started raining".
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I had a dwarf adventurer get melted by rain in a human town, and there certainly wasn't any lava there. Also, the humans and their wood buildings were fine as far as I could tell.
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If you get it, I'd suggest turning off temperature and see if that solves the "problem". That'll atleast isolate it to "rain hot"/something else.
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Dont know if it's related, but I was fighting a cow (which got legendary in kicking or something during the fight) with a dwarf in arena mode and suddenly my dwarf started melting. I was fighting just outside the entrance of that building in the left upper corner. So right next to lava.
I started and stoped melting a few times, trailing lots of blood. I died than shortly after during a 'not melting' periode from the loss of blood.
And it may be of importance that I also noticed, that the arena has a 'scorcing' enviroment.
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O.K., now I had the scorching rain as well.
Rim of a Sinister mountain range with high cliffs (*) in the local area and 2 Biomes (one mountain, one forest).
It had no open Lava and the temperature of both Biomes was "just" warm.
It began to rain and next thing I noticed was, that myx cook and my jeweler bled to death.
The only surviving dwarf outside already had certain bodyparts beginning to melt.
Oh and I think the Biome the killed dwarves were in at the time of their death was the mountain Biome.
Maybe the steep cliffs had something to do with the deadly rain (like rain getting hotter and hotter for every visible layer of air it falls through)
(I doubt that it was the warm temperature (alone),as I already had a fortress in warm Biome, only a few tiles west from this one, where not a single dwarf was killed by killer rain)
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I have normal rain on a map with a "temperate" or maybe "warm" climate, no surface magma, a magma pipe in the first layer of caverns, a brook, and I'm near the coast. My map has fresh water with an aquifer spanning roughly 1/3 of it.
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My fort had no magma(that i could see, there was a giant undergroudn cavern i didnt fully explore), and a brook. Cold climate. For the longest time there were no problems, rain was normal, water was fine, even when i accidentally flooded parts of my lower levels setting up my dining well. However, when an unkillable sand titan showed up, eventually i just said fuck it and decided to flood my whole fortress. Strangely, at this time, any water coming into my fort immediately turned dwarves into stains on the wall as soon as it reached a certain height. Im not sure exactly what height, but there were dwarves standing around in 1/7 and 2/7 water fine, but once the water rose they died in a bloody shower.
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I have what may have been the same bug. I was on an oceanside fortress with half a dozen merfolk swimming in the ocean. In the summer, at about the same time some immigrants arrived (although I don't know the exact timing) all the merfolk spontaneously bled out and then died. They didn't air-drown and as far as I can tell none of my dwarves or creatures attacked them.
Edited to add: There is no visible magma on the map, but meeting areas are flagged as 'hot'.
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2. You have deadly rain, but no visible lava.
I think I hit this bug. I have a very humdrum starting area, a fairly flat 4x4 with a brook down the middle. Mostly treed with a low hill on the east side. No visible magma, strange creatures and I hadn't hit any underground of any kind yet.
During the summer of the first year all of the sudden all of my dwarves except the two that were inside got, one after the other "X Has Bled to Death" messages. I saw that the last couple flashes with yellow + wounds for a moment before they died. I did notice that this started right around the time when it started raining.
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I had a similar bug in adventure mode. I had an elf, and went for a swim in a lake. I spent a good 250 turns laying down in the water, swimming, when suddenly I started to melt horribly, bled out, and died. Nothing was around causing the issue. No exposed magma, though there was a Volcano about 10 Worldmap Tiles away, so there's a chance there was a hidden magma pipe.
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I just lost a fort to deadly rain with no visible lava. I was in a temperate mountain/forest and it began to rain mid-summer, all of a sudden all my dwarves were missing their upper bodies.
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Deadly rain no visible lava. All my dwarves that was in the forest died. Those who were in the mountain/rocky part survived the rain. I think it might be related to biomes.
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Related problem that might shed light on this:
I had an Adventure Mode Elf go for a swim in a small pond in a temperate forest. For the first 250 ticks or so, it was fine... but suddenly, without any visible change (and no rain I noticed), I started melting horribly. I got out of the water, and continued to melt (I was covered by the pond water still), until I bled to death. It was 12 Worldmap squares from a Volcano, so there is a slight chance for lava nearby.
My thinking, in tandem with the Hot Rain hypothesis is that water in general is becomming inordinately warm. It could be borrowing temperature from nearby magma, or maybe it's something wierd to do with buggy heat accumulation, and a lack of dispersion. Who knows?
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I have exposed lava, normal rain.
However, I have a theory.
What if the ambient temperature is so high that water boils rather than evaporating?
I think of this because of how I treated magma burn victims in previous releases... in an almost-constantly raining environment, dwarves who are wet won't start burning (and if put in beds in 4/7 water, will eventually cool off and heal) if they were exposed to magma.
But what if that situation were reversed?
Rain gives dwarves a 'water coating'. If the water boils, that heat is transferred to the dwarf, resulting in massive burning. If there's something similar between molten/boiling stone on a dwarf and boiling water, then it might just describe the phenomenon of deadly rain.
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I had no exposed lava and, for over a year, normal rain. Then some migrants arrived. Suddenly, everyone outdoors began melting. It started with an immigrating dog and went from there. The weird thing is that I had played this location previously long enough for three waves of migrants to arrive and no one melted. Then I decided to kill the process and resume play again from my initial save. Everything was going great until this catastrophe occurred. It was after the first Dwarven caravan but it might have been as late as the next summer. Water does not freeze there but neither do the ponds evaporate.
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I encountered the deadly rain right after my first migrant wave. At that time, it already rained before and although all of my dwarves were outside, none of them were melted. The second wave of rain kill 9 out off my 11 dwarves; all of my dwarves were still outside. No lava were exposed.
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It would be rally helpful if we could see the temperature of thing when viewed with 'k'. I think this new body/tissue system cause the problem by having material with too low melting points. Or the game allows bodies of water to reach too hight temperature.
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I ran a test in the testing arena.
Putting a layer of magma and a layer of water next to eachother and a dwarf inbetween will cause the dwarf to melt much faster then putting the same layer of magma and put the dwarf next to it. This might not be absolutly fool proof as the testing terrain has large magma fields that might screw with the results so perhaps a few more tests are needed here.
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http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13922
That's why we have burning rain.
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I've heard in a few places that this bug is fixed, but my dwarves are melting every time it rains in 0.31.12. Is it actually meant to be fixed currently?
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It should be.
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It's probably some kind of horrible disease. The migrants bring the disease with them, killing everyone outside.
Bam, problem solved, get gas masks and kill them pesky immigrants.
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You should upload that save.
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I have a save of a fort mid-destruction by rain that makes everything's upper body go missing and nothing else. My animals and 2 dwarves are dead and the other 5 die within minutes of loading the save. No exposed magma, 31.12, no mods, no extreme biome. Should I send it to Toady for further investigation or does he already have a gazzilion of those?
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I have a save of a fort mid-destruction by rain that makes everything's upper body go missing and nothing else. My animals and 2 dwarves are dead and the other 5 die within minutes of loading the save. No exposed magma, 31.12, no mods, no extreme biome. Should I send it to Toady for further investigation or does he already have a gazzilion of those?
when someone dies, his body gets deleted and drops a corpse based on severed parts. the reason it says "his upper body is gone" because everything is attached to the upper body, so you can safely read "his upper body is gone" as "his whole body is gone" or "is dead"
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A 31.12 version doing this is bad give it to toady quick. Or was this a fort you upgraded from before it was supposed to be fixed?
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I just got a much needed immigrant wave, it started to rain, I saved, then everyone started to bleed to death. It started with the many war dogs I have milling about, then some of the immigrants and other dwarfs caught out in the rain. Then the game politely crashed.
Something that I found interesting was that any of the people/animals that where bleeding did not have any of their limbs wounded, but in the description page it said what was bleeding.
I have lava uncovered and I'm playing 31.16
Is there a way that I can keep the fortress without everyone bleeding out?