Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: Knight of Our Lady on April 15, 2010, 02:08:58 pm
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Without question, DF is pretty unique due to its use of text display.
However IMO that somewhat hindered playability.
It makes lots of sense to have main game field in ASCII, but the rest of interface does not have to be plain text. Actually I would have preferred to control the game from Windows/X GUI with its rich controls.
Let's face it - this game is rich with its control capability, it's a world simulator where one can drill down multiple levels. There is nothing better suited for controlling complex simulations than GUI controls, such as outlines, lists, sliders, radio groups etc.
This is a developer with some 20 years experience talking. Keep in mind that I, personally, play with a graphics pack.
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According to Toady he's putting off the interface design until features are ready so he won't have to redo it. The probable real reason is that he hates doing interfaces.
I doubt making the mouse actually work would be wasted effort.
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It was the interface that kept me away from DF for years. I had heard a lot about this fantastic game, but I was repeatedly turned down by the ASCII graphics and the awkward control interface. It was like learning DOS all over. Then someone suggested a graphics tileset, and that helped a lot, now I could at least see what was going on. And now I am totally addicted to the game. But I still hate the control interface. I have tried to convince myself that learning thousands of key combinations by heart and moving the cursor around my big screen with the cursor keys is part of the fun, but it isn't, not even if we adopt the DF-definition of fun - it really is a pain. I believe the developer has a valid reason for not making the user interface more user-friendly (he hates doing interfaces or is too busy developing the play aspects of the game or something) but then someone else could help him out?
I wish someone with programming skills (and I believe quite a few DF-players are programmers) would create some kind of consistent interface on top of the existing interface, so that you could input orders with the mouse from a menu and place structures on the map with the mouse (or something). I have no programming skills so I don't know if this is at all possible.
But don't get me wrong: This is a great game. Proof: I am still playing it in spite of the awkward interface.
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Hi!
I find it rather interesting that you say the text interface is unique. It is the standard interface for roguelikes and while Dwarf Fortress has surpassed that genre with its fortress mode that is where its roots lie and there is no secret made of that.
Personally, I don't mind the keyboard-driven controls as I find them more precise than mouse controls and I am pretty much fine with the interface as it is at the moment (granted, one or two minor improvements here and there are something I see as well, but I am not at all believing in a mouse-based GUI making it much better).
Deathworks
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I personally really like the current interface; but then, I enjoy avoiding the use of a mouse wherever possible. Not that building an optional GUI would be a bad idea, just it doesn't seem necessary - and it seems like it would be a waste of time for Toady to do it instead of, say, fixing bugs, or implementing new features, or improving the military control screen.
Though, if someone who knows how to program (OP, I'm looking at you, with your claim of 20 years of developing) really wants a better interface, they could probably build something which sits on top of the main game and takes commands, then passes them into the game via either macros or sending keystrokes - like Dwarf Therapist, but much more complete. Maybe a duplication of the game's output (text mode could be adapted into this - spawning the game from another process) in one pane of the window, and the rest of it devoted to various controls, information, and options. Could be a bit tricky, though, especially in placing workshops, and would probably be a bit time-consuming to create, but it seems entirely doable.
Disclaimer: I'm not a programmer, though I enjoy talking about programming and I know some of the theory. I can just about manage very basic python and C, but would have no idea how to start when making something like this, even if I can sketch out the basic way it would work.
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That's correct, I find it annoying to actually use the mouse during gameplay... it slows me down (or I think!) to have my hands leave the keyboard.
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I dislike the mouse too, it's cumbersome; at times it feels like manipulating something with mittens.. Flowing your hands smoothly and precisely from key to key is much more pleasant. Organizing the interface so that you can do everything with a small number of keypresses is the most important; that still is true for a mouse interface, except 1. Dragging, 2. moving the mouse and 3. clicks must be minimized.
In short, moving your mouse arrow is an annoying distraction from the game when you could just as well press a key.