Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: Bronzebeard on May 06, 2010, 08:41:20 pm
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'Ello, Bay 12! First post here. :3
To begin, my latest fortress is entrenched in thick and savage jungle where a wide range of... fauna lurks about. Oddly, a lot of creatures seem to prefer deliberately entering my fortress and inevitably falling prey to the gauntlet of cage traps I have set within the outer walls. By the number and variety of beasts I have penned so far, I'm thinking of starting a spacious (and I mean spacious) zoo whenever I get around to it. Of these caged curiosities, however, are the tigermen. I believe I have about twenty so far. Packs of them have meandered the region ever since I've settled there. Their raws indicate that they can talk and learn -- after all, being anthropomorphic usually entails a hint of sentience -- but I never thought much of it. I mean, they're still just savage beasts, aren't they? Surely unable to take to the civilized and sophisticated ways of the dwarves. Until I glanced at the kennels, and a curious thought arrested me: taming them! It should be possible, shouldn't it? And it was. But these aren't just animals. These are (somewhat) intelligent creatures with humanoid features; there could be promise here. So I went for it.
I started with two of them, a male and a female. If successful, these two could be our first ambassadors to the tigerpeople! :o Well, at least until I got around taming the rest of them. After some undoubtedly awkward negotiations through some cage bars, surely facilitated by some tempting haunches of meat, the trial appeared successful -- the two were now sporting (tame) tags! Cautiously, I planted their cages further in the fortress by the kennels and let them out... They apprehensively left their cages and, at first, just stood there: two wide-eyed creatures of the wild suddenly plunged into the dark, cold, geometric depths of an eldritch underworld, populated by a numerous community squat, perplexing beings. It wasn't long, however, before they started walking about. I was thrilled. Surely the occasional visitors from the Mountainhomes think this place strange enough for being smack-dab in the middle of a perilous, tropical wilderness -- imagine what they'll say now, with tigermen walking about like proper citizens! Ha! If only I could train one of them to be a broker... trading might go a lot more smoothly.
Despite seeming confident enough to wander about now, they didn't leave eachothers' side. They headed toward a well and cleaned themselves off. Curiously, I then noticed they started walking out of the fortress. Before long, I found out why: they were thirsty. Instead of consuming some of the plenitude of booze, they prefer water. Yet, why didn't they just use the well? Fresh stream water only, at that, eh? How picky. Either way, it doesn't seem possible to see what they're doing like you would with a dwarf, so their actions are a little more cryptic. After getting their fill, they promptly returned inside. It seems that, despite sitting in a cage only to be coaxed out with first piece of food they'd seen in weeks, they've been convinced of the hospitality of the dwarves, after all. Their destination seemed to be, like all the other animals', the drinking hall. Tigerpeople relaxing in the drinking hall. I don't know why, but the idea delights me immensely.
Since then, I've proceeded to tame and civilize the rest and I've noticed they've started to dabble in basic dwarven skills -- primarily those in combat (kicking, biting, striking, even armor using) followed by social ones (negotiating, comedy, flattery, etc.). This not only confirms they have the intelligence to possibly adopt a dwarven lifestyle, but they can steadily learn how to speak, to boot; otherwise how would they crack a joke or compliment someone's beard, unless it means they only have that ability amongst each other (which I doubt because they would have already had those skills, in that case). I've even noticed a few tigerman cubs running about. I'm currently torn whether or not to designate them as available pets for dwarves. A tigergirl? I'd sure want one. But due to the fact that they speak and learn skills, I'd rather consider them second-class citizens of the fortress rather than pets. Not to mention that, while pets ordinarily follow their masters everywhere, the tigerpeople seem to enjoy the freedom of wandering out of the fortress from time to time -- and make stalwart defenders of the surrounding area when the need arises. It's good to know you have some allies out in the jungle.
To that end, however, I don't know the full scope of this but I think Toady should allow you to manage tamed humanoids like you would dwarves (of course, probably to a lesser extent, such as they cannot be nobles or preform workshop jobs). It would be nice to be able to draft them into the military, for instance, if they seem able to learn all weapon, armor and combat skills -- who wouldn't want a militia of seven-foot, bipedal tigers clad in steel? :P Anyone have any other thoughts on this?
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IIRC there is goblin tower somewhere in Core's or Power Goals, so that includes slavery and multi-racial fortresses
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Now all I want to do is start a fort with animal people around and tame them to make a massive furry army. FEAR MY FURRIES!
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Great first post, I had an amazing read. :)
I dont know why but I always end up playing in temperate or cold settings. Now I see what I am losing!
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Massive Furry Army?
How terrifying. ._.
I am, from this point on, going to buy all of those poor creatures from the elves.
Or, you know, just kill those damned elves.
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About halfway through an image of a wookie popped into my head, now I must try and replicate your experience. I think a squad consisting of Markstigermen and Speartigermen would be pretty awesome. Excellent read, also.
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IIRC there is goblin tower somewhere in Core's or Power Goals, so that includes slavery and multi-racial fortresses
Really? That's awesome! Admittedly, the concept of slaves wasn't the first thing that popped into my head, but it would make a fitting role for any subjugated locals.
Great first post, I had an amazing read. :)
I dont know why but I always end up playing in temperate or cold settings. Now I see what I am losing!
Thank you! :) And, in that case, you're just like me; I adore cold regions and I've founded quite a few polar fortresses ruins so far. Not that I always choose an extreme like glaciers, though. Failing that, I prefer temperate regions. This is my first tropical fortress, since I wanted to shake it up a bit.
Now all I want to do is start a fort with animal people around and tame them to make a massive furry army. FEAR MY FURRIES!
I think a squad consisting of Markstigermen and Speartigermen would be pretty awesome. Excellent read, also.
Haha. Just what I had in mind. :3 Sad they can't be drafted (yet). Although, I expect that over time their skills will improve -- should they encounter any combat -- even though they're doomed to just walk around... naked, for now. ;;
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be wary of those cubs, the last thing you want is a tigermansplosion
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Put them up for adoption. Pretend that your fortress has a policy to pair a tigerman with a dwarf to teach them the way of the Pick.
I want tigermen...
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be wary of those cubs, the last thing you want is a tigermansplosion
Oh yeah, the inability to butcher sentient creatures could be quite problematic here...
though I'm not sure if that extends to animalfolk.
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It so happens that earlier today a large siege was imposed upon my humble, furry-loving fortress. Most of the vermin (and their wide array of mounts) fell to my cage traps but there were still plenty to test the mettle of my dwarves -- which was surprisingly formidable. After my militia of twelve-or-so (versus many more their number) pushed through the last of the remaining goblins idly waiting by the entrance -- no doubt for news of victory from within -- one simply rode off on his "rutherer". My militia gave chase but couldn't quite match his mount's speed. He led them in a circle around the immediate jungle before dashing back through the gates...
...and colliding with a startled tigerman cub, effectively immobilizing himself long enough to meet his doom at the hands of some tired soldiers. Unfortunately, the cub died in the brief exchange of blows but, remarkably, he managed to deal some significant manage to a seasoned goblin swordsman in the seconds before my men got there. Apparently keeping the tigermen around is paying off already! :P I also have a number of snail and slugmen caged up, but I'm a tad hesitant to try to assimilate those. Beyond personal reasons, I imagine people might start having some nasty slips around the fortress...
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huh if you can butcher animalmen... and also make them were armor.... Tigermen in tigermen pelt armor!
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Whatever you do, don't leave your tigermen caged or chained.
It breaks their spirit, they don't eat, they don't drink... and then they die of thirst/hunger.
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Apparently, some of the tigerpeople have achieved legendary fighting and wrestling skills with little to no fighting, allowing one to single-handedly fend off a giantess before it could infiltrate my fortress (due to a blunder on my part, digging a channel outside the gates)! My recommendation grows. Has anyone else managed to get some yet?
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TIGER CUB IS KREDIT TO FORTRESS!!!!
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Fantastic read.
I have become absolutely enthralled by the Tigermen/Animalmen lately. This story and your posts confirm the fact that they can train in combat abilities, and other posters talking about their social skills/healthcare skills training makes my days.
Other forum posts have even shown that Tigerpeople* will also grab armour and weapons (random though) and keep them equipped.
This opens up so much potential for a fruitful slave trade in Dwarf Fortress!
If an artificial "fortress" is built outside of you existing dwarf fortress, with a pit designated to keep the tigerpeople in, it would provide a living area to move around outside of your meeting halls and statue gardens.
Stockpiles for food, ideal weapons/armour, and other necessities could be created in this pit. When a tigerperson matures or feels like equipping an item, you can semi-control what is available to them.
Soon these "mini-civilizations" of tigerpeople will have a bounty of breeding, war-equipped adults that (hopefully, I have been unable to test) will eventually be able to hold off sieges.
Dwarves are (though migrant waves make us feel otherwise) a precious resource, and all it takes is an unlucky copper bolt to end a dwarf's working ability.
Why suffer your fortress the painful loss of dwarven life when these sub-dwarven creatures can be sacrificed in their stead. With enough traps and an appropriate number of well-raised and tailored Tigerpeople, your Master-race dwarves can continue to prosper while the raggedly-clad, semi-intelligent jungle men provide the soldiering.
*more politically correct, I suppose
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(http://www.portentinteractive.com/img/Monocle-man.gif)
Clearly we must train these savage beasts, so that may become more civilized, and protect us dwarves. Tea ale time!
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:P I also have a number of snail and slugmen caged up, but I'm a tad hesitant to try to assimilate those. Beyond personal reasons, I imagine people might start having some nasty slips around the fortress...
Do it. They might die otherwise.
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Tigerman being tameable "animals" is the way a
bug unintended feature (iirc) since they somehow inherited the [Pet] tag. A rather nice one considering that you get warriors with inbuilt weapons.
I would advice to get rid of the snail- and slug-man because these dont have the pet tag thus they arent tameable. The underground animal people areby the way tribal which means they have a proto-civ and they too lack the pet tag.
heh can i borough a white tiger girl if you have one? :P
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IIRC, if you add the creature tag for Tigermen to the Mountain Entity, tigermen will be akin to dwarfs.
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It's even worse when you embark in a location with no stream. I have a well coming from a murky pool, and tigermen won't drink from it. The only way I can make them drink is if I let them be adopted as pets (instead of "stray"), and then their owner gives them water.
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It's even worse when you embark in a location with no stream. I have a well coming from a murky pool, and tigermen won't drink from it. The only way I can make them drink is if I let them be adopted as pets (instead of "stray"), and then their owner gives them water.
They will? You can do that? But THAT'S EVEN BETTER!
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I can't really recommend taming tigermen.
The elves came around in one of my old fortress, and they carried some cages with tame tigermen in them. I bought them, interested in having a little army of sentient pets, much like the OP. However, they breed like cats, and not soon after, I had a ton of little tigermen running around. Then the game started to lag, and people were complaining of a lack of room and were generally getting unhappy, so I put all of the tigermen in a cage. They all die of thirst. It made me feel like I was a bad pet keeper.
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I once had a fortress well stocked with tamed wolves and foxes. This was sometime ago, so there were tentacles involved...
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Oh the tentacles... Still I though you were able to butcher anything that you can designate as pet? Just but b instead of enter.
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Oh the tentacles... Still I though you were able to butcher anything that you can designate as pet? Just but b instead of enter.
Not true; you can't do it with vermin, for example.
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I caught a tigerman cub recently, sadly I didn't know about their need for food, so she starved to death. I felt so bad that I exited DF and edited the save raw so they didn't need food or drink, then reloaded the game from the previous season. I got a warm and fuzzy feeling from that.
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I caught a tigerman cub recently, sadly I didn't know about their need for food, so she starved to death. I felt so bad that I exited DF and edited the save raw so they didn't need food or drink, then reloaded the game from the previous season. I got a warm and fuzzy feeling from that.
IT
IT'S
IT'S AN UNDYING FURRY ARMY! RUN FOR YOUR FUCKING LIVES!!!!!!!!!
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So... If I get that correctly:
- tigermen can be tamed without a dungeon master
- they can be adopted as pets
- they need to drink from a natural water source
- they need to eat meat
- they will randomly equip themselves with weapon and armor
- they will naturally develop their combat skills
Are they butcherable? I understand dwarves will not eat them as they are sentient but can you butcher them all the same for bones and leather?
Any other creature that can be used like that?
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So... If I get that correctly:
- tigermen can be tamed without a dungeon master
- they can be adopted as pets
- they need to drink from a natural water source
- they need to eat meat
- they will randomly equip themselves with weapon and armor
- they will naturally develop their combat skills
Are they butcherable? I understand dwarves will not eat them as they are sentient but can you butcher them all the same for bones and leather?
Any other creature that can be used like that?
Not in vanilla...
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Resurrect. How do Tigerpeople look in 31.16?
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I too am interested in seeing if the Tigermen are still contributing members of Dwarf society in the latest version... it would completely suck if Toady somehow removed that possibility from the game.
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I have been playing genisis mod lately. I gave every single creature [PET] and [TAMEABLE]. feels good man.
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feels good man.
that's what she said.
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I've got tamed tigerpeople, some pets and other stray. None of them seems to develop combat skills or pick equipment. They develop only social skills, and for the moment not better than "Novice". The only ones with combat skills were bought from the elves, I think.
I play with version 0.31.14.
I've also tamed mountain goats, and I don't seem to be able to obtain milk from them.
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Eh, they punch like little girls and die like bugs.
Only real use I found from them?
Dump them into a small fortified enclave by the river, and waste goblin bolts.
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I suspect that you could have a designated "zookeeper", who watches over the little tiger people.
He/she gives them water, and people can watch the amazing animals through fortifications and/o
EDIT:Just found that Tigermen (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Tigerman) have to have at the MOST 1 z-level between the well and water source.
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I've got tamed tigerpeople, some pets and other stray. None of them seems to develop combat skills or pick equipment.
At last, one of them developed some combat skills: a giant arrived, I restricted my civilians to the fortress, I stationed my archers in the towers, and they could shoot the giant enough to make him give in to pain. Then, one of the stray Tigermen arrived and started scratching and shaking the giant, and when the giant fell in a cage trap, the Tigerman had become high master fighter and wrestler (and dabbling biter), and was not hurt by the monster.
It seems that fighting hand to hand with giants and colossusses is good for gaining experience in wrestling: I've had several dwarven elite wrestlers after such attacks, unfortunately most often cripled or dead.
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If only they could give biting demonstrations at the barracks.
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If only they could give biting demonstrations at the barracks.
Or solo bite drills.
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I loved the original post.
Tigerman in this capacity are essentially an alternate dwarf that is more effective in some ways but crippled otherwise. i found them so cool that I created a civ for them.
It reminded me of another user whose fort in 40d was built around tamed werewolves instead of tigermen. He'd given his wolves [CAN_SPEAK] in addition to [CAN_LEARN] so that they could be given dwarf names without needing to become pets; the cost of this is that their corpses were sacrosanct like dwarven corpses, i.e. could not be utilized the same way as goblin corpses or livestock.
I think two of his werewolves actually got married at some point:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44500.msg855243#msg855243 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44500.msg855243#msg855243)
This is another nice thread about a player who granted citizenship to werewolves and ogres, resulting in one being elected Mayor in his fort.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63835.msg1482926#msg1482926 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63835.msg1482926#msg1482926)
Just thought they'd be a cool complement story-wise.
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I think two of his werewolves actually got married at some point:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44500.msg855243#msg855243 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44500.msg855243#msg855243)
This is another nice thread about a player who granted citizenship to werewolves and ogres, resulting in one being elected Mayor in his fort.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63835.msg1482926#msg1482926 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63835.msg1482926#msg1482926)
Just thought they'd be a cool complement story-wise.
Nice stories there...it would be rather interesting to get other sentient's to live & coexist with your dorfs in their fortress, maybe someday in vanilla.
Can you imagine this guys side by side with the dwarves in glorious battles?
(http://b.imagehost.org/0410/38954_Tigerman.jpg)
(Dual weapons AND dual bucklers....possible in adventure mode but fortress mode?)
Maybe someday...but I guess MODs will do for now.
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Heh...who would that thought that when DF 2010 was released, one of the
bugsfeatures would be the issue of Tigerman slavery/citizenship?
Another reason to hate the elves, perhaps: they don't empathize with these downtrodden but noble savages, but confine them in cages and sell them into slavery that frequently results in a slow death from wasting away.
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Another reason to hate the elves, perhaps: they don't empathize with these downtrodden but noble savages...
And the are savages; they wash, for Armoks sake!
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Another reason to hate the elves, perhaps: they don't empathize with these downtrodden but noble savages...
And the are savages; they wash, for Armoks sake!
Dwarves wash now too.
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feels good man.
that's what she said.
That is NOT what she said, good sir, i was there and I know what happened.
Anyway, on topic, i tried training these guys to fight(i actually gave them [TRAINABLE] too so they did double damage, i was worried they wouldn't properly drink water anymore, however they probably functioned better as war Tigermen than as stray ones) by dropping unarmed/armored goblins into a room with them while they were chained but they totally ignored them and the war elephants flipped out and crushed all the prisoners.
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Then, one of the stray Tigermen arrived and started scratching and shaking the giant, and when the giant fell in a cage trap, the Tigerman had become high master fighter and wrestler (and dabbling biter), and was not hurt by the monster.
I hadn't noticed, but now, this tigerman is my major !
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3509/tigermanmajor.th.png) (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/tigermanmajor.png/)
He is competent in his nine social skills. My precedent major was an ex-child which just had become an adult.
Those lazy creatures are in fact preparing their rise to power while honest dwarves are working.
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At least your mayor is tame!
Thin what could happen if a wild animal leveled up their social skills enough!
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At least your mayor is tame!
Thin what could happen if a wild animal leveled up their social skills enough!
MANDATE: Dwarf Meat Roasts 0/3
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My mayor needs mayor appartments, but I connot assign it to her (it's a Tigerwoman).
From the nobles screen, she appears in the 'r'eplace menu for the mayor position, and there, I can 'v'iew the unit, like normal dwarves.
She has 5 children: She, She, She, She, and She:
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3046/tigermanthoughts.th.png) (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/tigermanthoughts.png/)
She killed a giant (scratched a wounded giant before it got trapped and died in the cage):
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5176/tigermankills.th.png) (http://img521.imageshack.us/i/tigermankills.png/)
And she only messes with other tigerpeople (where we learn that She #4 should be He):
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2435/tigermanrelationships.th.png) (http://img257.imageshack.us/i/tigermanrelationships.png/)
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Can you assign the tigerman to noble posisions or place them into the army?
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Can you assign the tigerman to noble posisions or place them into the army?
No. She only appears in the potential mayor list because she is the current mayor. I guess that I will not be able to choose her once she will have left her position. She's not in the 'p'ositions list in the military screen.
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Can you assign the tigerman to noble posisions or place them into the army?
No. She only appears in the potential mayor list because she is the current mayor. I guess that I will not be able to choose her once she will have left her position. She's not in the 'p'ositions list in the military screen.
Is she on the captains list in the noble screen? ("Tigers don't follow... we only lead!")
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Is she on the captains list in the noble screen?
No.