Cons:Fixed.
Requires a functional waste management system / sewage system for larger fortresses.
Will encourage immaturity and puerility.
Okay, so hopefully we can have a more reasonable discussion here.
Cons:Fixed.
Requires a functional waste management system / sewage system for larger fortresses.
Will encourage immaturity and puerility.
Okay, so hopefully we can have a more reasonable discussion here.
Cons:Fixed.
Requires a functional waste management system / sewage system for larger fortresses.
Will encourage immaturity and puerility.
Okay, so hopefully we can have a more reasonable discussion here.
Urist McArtifactmaker has canceled awesomeness, going to bathroom.
Sure, sewers would be nifty, but this is too much. I mean, they don't even eat/sleep normally. That'd have to come first.
And just imagine adventurer mode...
You forgot the "not now" option - people often vote against something if they think it does not have immediate priority.
Edit: As is perfectly demonstrated by the above post.
"Hey, dude...Have you played DF?"
"DF?"
"Dwarf Fortress!"
"Oh...Is that the game where you save up turds to drown stuff with?"
"Yeah, man!"
In the not too distant future...Quote"Hey, dude...Have you played DF?"
"DF?"
"Dwarf Fortress!"
"Oh...Is that the game where you save up turds to drown stuff with?"
"Yeah, man!"
In the not too distant future...Quote"Hey, dude...Have you played DF?"
"DF?"
"Dwarf Fortress!"
"Oh...Is that the game where you save up turds to drown stuff with?"
"Yeah, man!"
What, so adding waste to the game will suddenly make it all about waste? Gee, what happened to the dwarves, the magma, the forging, the fighting, and everything else? Oh, I guess it's all just a grand backdrop to what DF is all about: poop!
I'm going to propose an alternate system where workshops create waste.This.
Kitchen scraps, leftover plant matter from farmer's workshops, mills, and stills, inedible bits from the butcher are all created under normal operation and have to be dealt with before they start creating miasma and disease. This creates the need for a sewage system without baiting immaturity.
Riznar - most of the benefits, perhaps, but it wouldn't exactly scale up the same way. Still, its a good idea, I think. Once a system is set to handle materials like this I think it would be nice to add, since I doubt creature waste will be enough to fill a sewer what with it probably only happening once or twice a year.
The only problem with that system I could see is that it sidesteps the benefits of manure as fertilizer and of animals in general needing to be more cared for/taken care of.
You forgot the "not now" option - people often vote against something if they think it does not have immediate priority.
Edit: As is perfectly demonstrated by the above post.
One interesting thought I had related to the eatting/sleeping schedule: Waste production/using the facilities should occur paired with either the eat or sleep task, before or after one of them, based on the dwarfs preference. That would assist with fortress layout (put appropriate areas relatively close to dining hall and sleeping quarters; properly plumbed, of course) and not having the problem of a dwarf stops a job, goes to sleep, starts the job again when he wakes up, gets tile done on the job, and then goes to the facilities.
I support the clean self action also including the create waste action. And the workshops generate waste idea too.I'm going to propose an alternate system where workshops create waste.This.
Kitchen scraps, leftover plant matter from farmer's workshops, mills, and stills, inedible bits from the butcher are all created under normal operation and have to be dealt with before they start creating miasma and disease. This creates the need for a sewage system without baiting immaturity.
Then Toady could add, as he saw fit:
- The cleaning job requiring a bucket of water, and producing a bucket of contaminated water.
- A "sanitary zone" where dwarves go to "clean self", where contaminants and other waste materials are dumped.
- Waste and contaminants causing miasma and disease when that's implemented.
- The "clean self" job producing a new contaminant (filth, waste, whatever you want to call it.)
You could have the need for, and the possibility of, a working sewage system with no actual fecal matter being produced.
Like I said in the other thread, having every animal in the Embark Zone create waste will contribute too heavily to any FPS drops. Already DF is using 1gb of Ram while not under pressure (just going by my system) so to help alleviate this it should be restricted to Dwarves, Goblins, Orcs, Forgotten Beasts and a small selection of creatures like Cows, Deer or horses.
I've chosen Goblins, Orcs and Forgotten Beasts as a main suggestion as you'd imagine them to be quite dirty as species and besides thered be nothing cooler than to breach a forgotten beasts home only to find the beasts was literally a beast and lived in a cave of filth.
Like I said in the other thread, having every animal in the Embark Zone create waste will contribute too heavily to any FPS drops. Already DF is using 1gb of Ram while not under pressure (just going by my system) so to help alleviate this it should be restricted to Dwarves, Goblins, Orcs, Forgotten Beasts and a small selection of creatures like Cows, Deer or horses.
I've chosen Goblins, Orcs and Forgotten Beasts as a main suggestion as you'd imagine them to be quite dirty as species and besides thered be nothing cooler than to breach a forgotten beasts home only to find the beasts was literally a beast and lived in a cave of filth.
I'm going to propose an alternate system where workshops create waste.This.
Kitchen scraps, leftover plant matter from farmer's workshops, mills, and stills, inedible bits from the butcher are all created under normal operation and have to be dealt with before they start creating miasma and disease. This creates the need for a sewage system without baiting immaturity.
Then Toady could add, as he saw fit:
- The cleaning job requiring a bucket of water, and producing a bucket of contaminated water.
- A "sanitary zone" where dwarves go to "clean self", where contaminants and other waste materials are dumped.
- Waste and contaminants causing miasma and disease when that's implemented.
- The "clean self" job producing a new contaminant (filth, waste, whatever you want to call it.)
You could have the need for, and the possibility of, a working sewage system with no actual fecal matter being produced.
The "Yes" options for this one kinda imply that this feature would be forced on the people who don't want it. I don't know if that was deliberate, but it's definitely not realistic. This poll is a step back from the other one in that regard.
I mean, on the whole, its more realism, which is good, but there is a reason it doesn't come up in books/movies/etc as part of everyday life.
Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.
Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.
Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.
It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.
Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.
It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.
...
Just ignore it. I can't really imagine how you would be offended by a person mentioning poop. It's a basic bodily function.
Also people post about how they do sick/insane stuff every day on the internet. It should be shut down.
I don't think you're getting what I mean. I meant that, yeah, sure, there's going to be some people who act immature about it. That's not justification to say that a very fun and realistic feature should be taken out, just like saying that the internet can be used to plan crimes or brag about torturing cats is not justification to shut it down.Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.
It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.
...
Just ignore it. I can't really imagine how you would be offended by a person mentioning poop. It's a basic bodily function.
Also people post about how they do sick/insane stuff every day on the internet. It should be shut down.
They can do that in 4chan or wherever else. Why invite it here?
Actually, the dwarf fortress threads on 4chan tend to be totally devoid of the sort of thing which people on these forums see as indication that waste would be used to drown elves. "Sick and insane stuff" exist in proportions roughly equal to elsewhere, and people are not, as this forum is, inclined to farm mermaids or whatnot. This sort of immaturity would exist only here, if it were to exist at all.They can do that in 4chan or wherever else. Why invite it here?Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.
...
Just ignore it. I can't really imagine how you would be offended by a person mentioning poop. It's a basic bodily function.
Also people post about how they do sick/insane stuff every day on the internet. It should be shut down.
I don't think you're getting what I mean. I meant that, yeah, sure, there's going to be some people who act immature about it. That's not justification to say that a very fun and realistic feature should be taken out, just like saying that the internet can be used to plan crimes or brag about torturing cats is not justification to shut it down.Rotten's absolutely right. And it isn't as if feces don't exist in real life. We all presumably take a dump every single day, don't we? You have some funny pranks or references here and there but, really, I don't see anyone immature enough to start causing chaos because of it. This game is the game to add feces to, if any, because it focuses on detail, not whether or not some 10 year old can handle it without causing a minor nuisance on a forum thread.
Also, being able to tear every limb off an elf and let it bleed out is better than an abstracted 'filth' tile that is dropped by dwarves in a toilet?
If we're going to talk about detail, dwarves should sleep every day, eat a few times, pee several times, and poop once.
For their health Urist McHouse recommends loving sex every other day, a glass of wine with dinner (not a problem), and a 40 hour work week.
There has been no suggestion that this precede anything else. The earliest it might happen would be after the current bugs are fixed, adventure mode and sieges are made fun, and the top ten suggestions are addressed. And the bugs resulting from those additions are fixed.If we're going to talk about detail, dwarves should sleep every day, eat a few times, pee several times, and poop once.
For their health Urist McHouse recommends loving sex every other day, a glass of wine with dinner (not a problem), and a 40 hour work week.
And that changes DF straight into playing The Sims with alcoholic midgets back in 1400.
Oh, and I dislike the idea of having even more crap stuffed inside the game instead of getting the current stuff fixed. Maybe after Toady gets a decent pathfinding so my stone won't try to pathfind down the volcano.
LordSlowpoke brings up a good point.HEY TOADY!
What should be the proper priority for a waste system? How many of these items (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html) is it more important than?
Why is fecal matter essential to a waste system? Alternatives have been brought up in this thread
Why should Toady implement something so divisive?
If we're going to talk about detail, dwarves should sleep every day, eat a few times, pee several times, and poop once.On that note, it would be nice if there were a little more discrepancy between day and night. There are days in the game, but the only way you can tell (at least in Fortress Mode) is if there are fireflies buzzing about. Oh well.
It's kind of pointless to add in a waste system without poop. Like adding in dragons without fire. It also gets rid of the possibility of using poop for fertilizer, explosive production (more urine, but whatever), etc.I agree. It was just a thought in regards to the incomprehensible piling of said waste, though. It wouldn't make much sense not making the waste an actual in-game unit, though, as far as bang-for-the-buck goes -- if dwarves have to stop their duties now and then to go to the bathroom, there should at least be some waste you could put to good use in
LordSlowpoke brings up a good point.
What should be the proper priority for a waste system? How many of these items (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html) is it more important than?
Why is fecal matter essential to a waste system? Alternatives have been brought up in this thread
Why should Toady implement something so divisive?
Oh no, immaturity on the internet?! Everybody, into the magma!Trying to be optimistic, I voted "Yes" this time. But as I have explained before, it is very important for me that we find a way to curb the resulting onslaught of immaturity that might occur (I am not sad if I am wrong and it does not occur at all, of course).So what? It's a single player game. People's poop-drowning traps will not be forced on you. Just don't build them. Using the immaturity as an excuse is like saying that the internet should be shut down because some people use it to plan crimes.
It is when you get people posting about it on the DF forums on a regular basis as a new meme on the same level as the catsplosion based meme.
...
Just ignore it. I can't really imagine how you would be offended by a person mentioning poop. It's a basic bodily function.
Also people post about how they do sick/insane stuff every day on the internet. It should be shut down.
Secondly, like it or not, we are influenced by our everyday experiences, and fecal humor is about the lowest, cheapest humor I know of presented for immature boys in its own subgenre in manga and basically nowhere else except some extreme erotic material or maybe an occasional bit of hospital criticism. All the other extreme subjects we encounter in Dwarf Fortress and the discussions here either have no common image at all ("magma" is not a regular in average popular media) or have a wider or even positive application in popular culture ("violence" and "evilness" are common feature in most of our average entertainment as well, and also a hallmark of things like anti-war media, which therefore give the concepts the potential for a positive reading). That is the difference I see between it and any other aspects we have.
And the problem with feces is that they are likely to be as flexible as magma, so that "Apply poo!" probably would work as well and as versatile as "Apply magma!". Therefore, it is likely that it will be spread around just like blood and other contaminants are spread around in the game, until you have everything covered in it.
If, in your experience, fecal humor is such a small, specific subsection of humor that you basically can't find it unless you are looking for it, why do you think that including sewage in DF is going to suddenly make the forums turn into a giant shit-joke?Aye-aye, Ilmoran.
And on what basis are you saying feces (which isn't what this topic is about, specifically the previous topic was full of people who couldn't get over the fact that the original post said feces, even though everyone in the topic was willing to refer to it in less specific terms such as sewage or filth) will be as versatile as magma and then saying it's likely to spread around "just like blood and other contaminants"? After all, that's pretty contradictory; contaminants can't flow. You can't have a river of blood, vomit, or anything else other than water or magma right now. So what's the basis of saying it's going to be as versatile as magma? Furthermore, I think everyone can understand that the current tracking problems of contaminants and dwarves getting covered in anything that will stick is not the intended behavior. Once contaminants are handled properly, unless your working hard to get your dwarves to spread it around and not clean it, you probably aren't going to be tracking filth all over the place. And if you are working hard to get your fortress covered in it, your dwarves are probably going to be miserable, disease-ridden wretches who will die out in a season anyway, which I think would make it more trouble than it's worth, no matter how funny you think it is.
*snip*
*snip*I'm pretty tired right now (half past midnight here) but did you just say that adding sewage to DF would fill the forums with child porn?
Secondly, like it or not, we are influenced by our everyday experiences, and fecal humor is about the lowest, cheapest humor I know of presented for immature boys in its own subgenre in manga and basically nowhere else except some extreme erotic material or maybe an occasional bit of hospital criticism. All the other extreme subjects we encounter in Dwarf Fortress and the discussions here either have no common image at all ("magma" is not a regular in average popular media) or have a wider or even positive application in popular culture ("violence" and "evilness" are common feature in most of our average entertainment as well, and also a hallmark of things like anti-war media, which therefore give the concepts the potential for a positive reading). That is the difference I see between it and any other aspects we have.
Third, yes, the internet is large. Thanks to governments using child pornography as a means to get their censorship legislation into place instead of making agreements to internationally persecute child molestors and in doing so shut down the offending sites, it is also probably full of child pornography. Do you want nearly every thread to contain at least one person showing off some photos of a real life child getting raped? Yes, it is out there, but do we want to have it here? And even if you don't want to go for such illegal things, I am sure that among the tons of pornography/erotic on the internet, there are things that will make you sick as well. They are there, but do you want to see them in unrelated threads here on the forums, just because someone considers them a cool "meme"?
And the problem with feces is that they are likely to be as flexible as magma, so that "Apply poo!" probably would work as well and as versatile as "Apply magma!". Therefore, it is likely that it will be spread around just like blood and other contaminants are spread around in the game, until you have everything covered in it.
Here he takes a different road on the internet's baser content and apparently accuses governments for using that content (i.e. child porn) as a scapegoat for passing censorship legislation to sites instead of micromanaging each case of such content on these sites -- and I'm presuming the sites on hand here are torrent sites or boards like 4chan -- internationally (a thing, frankly, impossible for a number of reasons). He then goes on to question the reader if the cost of allowing these sites to be (thereby, allowing said bad content to exist because he's already defined it as an inevitability of these sites) is worth it, which is puzzling, because he first bids the reader sympathy for a medium polluted by a few bad apples resulting in strict government enaction to suppress it completely before justifying that harsh and unreasonable means-to-an-end, after all. He finishes this paragraph with embellishing the potential for bad content and whether or not you want it in an unrelated forum thread simply because it exists for someone to find it a "cool meme" and eventually bring it up. Quite frankly, though, were the two even this comparable I would find a reference to poop much more tolerable than, say, a fun picture of a child being raped here and again.looked to me like he was referring to the recent EU blocking of CP sites, and using that to suggest that there is more bad stuff on the internet than meets the eye.
It seems to me more that he rambles off topic than that it's a coherent fallacy.*snip*
Oh my god, that is the most triumphant example of the slippery slope fallacy I have ever, ever seen.
LordSlowpoke brings up a good point.
What should be the proper priority for a waste system? How many of these items (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html) is it more important than?
Why is fecal matter essential to a waste system? Alternatives have been brought up in this thread
Why should Toady implement something so divisive?
You know, the whole "Do female dwarves have beards or not?" debate was about as vociferous.
*snip*I'm pretty tired right now (half past midnight here) but did you just say that adding sewage to DF would fill the forums with child porn?
Whaaa?
Also, you misunderstood my analogy. What I was replying to was the accusation that sewage would inspire a certain genre of jokes. Though that is true, it's not a good enough reason to just scrap the entire idea completely, just like the fact that a small (OK, large) section of the internet is full of porn and rape doesn't mean that the entire internet should be taken down.
If we are aiming for such realism, how come there are no discussions of air management in fortresses? Do you really consider a single tile entrance into a fortress, providing airflow into it, more realistic than dwarves not producing filth?
If we are aiming for such realism, how come there are no discussions of air management in fortresses? Do you really consider a single tile entrance into a fortress, providing airflow into it, more realistic than dwarves not producing filth?
There are a ton of discussions of air management in fortresses:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4226.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46062.msg910985#msg910985
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5698.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20156.msg214237#msg214237
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4020.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=42344.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4672.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=28699.msg366879#msg366879
And even if there weren't, that would still be easily explained by the fact that ventilation has never been as universal and fundamental a concern for cities as sewage has.
If we are aiming for such realism, how come there are no discussions of air management in fortresses? Do you really consider a single tile entrance into a fortress, providing airflow into it, more realistic than dwarves not producing filth?
There are a ton of discussions of air management in fortresses:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4226.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46062.msg910985#msg910985
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5698.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20156.msg214237#msg214237
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4020.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=42344.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4672.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=28699.msg366879#msg366879
And even if there weren't, that would still be easily explained by the fact that ventilation has never been as universal and fundamental a concern for cities as sewage has.
I have read every single post here for this, and I think someone is using multi accounts to vote.I find quite the opposite, myself. Who in this thread doesn't agree?
ALOT and the MAJORITY of people here speaking do not agree with this, and yet that is not the case for the votes.
REALLY odd.
I have read every single post here for this, and I think someone is using multi accounts to vote.
ALOT and the MAJORITY of people here speaking do not agree with this, and yet that is not the case for the votes.
REALLY odd.
For me, waste system wins in simple way: forces to create breach in fortress. Yes, this can be alleviated, every corridor trapped, grates installed... but it will be there. Complete seal of fortress impossible for unlimited time.I never thought of that, that's a very good reason to include it.
Any, Toady already said he wasn't going to do it.
I don't know how this became the conventional wisdom, because (as far as I know) he's never made an unqualified statement that he wouldn't in any form implement feces, scat, waste, or night soil. The game already has a brown "filth" material that, according to Toady, is feces (see quotes below).
Here's all the quotes I could dig up (note that this first one is from 2004, and that "no plans" is very different from "won't do it"):There are no plans to add "night soil". Dwarves poop little pebbles which seemlessly disappear into the cavern floor, or they collect them and cherish them or something.Do dwarves have water closets? Will we need to carefully craft "flushing" mechanisms to carry the unmentionables away?
There is currently no potty.4. Manure, as a fertilizer.
4. They just drop it everywhere? Everyone will might be doing it after a while... night soil, and so on. But it's a dangerous door to open, especially if the room on the other side is full. If a god turns you into a horse in adventure mode, would you suddenly start dropping the bomb?
From DF Talk: (http://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_combined_transcript.html)QuoteToady: [...] I like the idea of being able to track things and find them, and pick up little kobold scats and dig around to see what they've been eating ... after a fashion, anyway.QuoteRainseeker: So there's no poo creatures either?
Toady: It was a close thing! Because it was literally a decision I had to make, going down this list, because in the Hidden Fun Stuff of course if you get the tentacle demons then you get a layer scattered with various filth on the ground; and there's brown filth and yellow filth and so on and it's not clearly stated but it's a material that I had to put in properties for right? So there's these hard-coded filth materials, and when I was going down the list, you know 'Do I want creatures made out of mud? Do I want creatures made out of vomit? Do I want creatures made out of glass?', there's all these hard-coded materials, and I was just like 'Yeah, yeah, yeah ... No ... No ...' on the filth. But there are creatures made out of the grime, and the grime material is the material that collects on your body slowly over time, and it's also the material that's used in swamp water, so there's this ... I just needed this material called 'grime' for these miscellaneous purposes, it's just crap, just stuff that collects over time and when a creature is made out of that it just says 'composed of grime and filth'. So if you want to call that 'poo' even though it's not it's possible for you to extend your imagination.QuoteToady: [...] But the kind of thing that's on the table is gunpowder, and the materials that you need for that are already in the game, I think. We've got brimstone, which is sulphur, and I don't remember if we have saltpetre, if it's there or not, but ... I guess you could do all kinds of things with manure and urine to make it, or you can find it in a crystalline form in the ground perhaps.
And finally, sewers full of filth were a powergoal in the old dev item system:Quote# PowerGoal153, THE CRACKS OF DOOM, (Future): You flee into the sewer with the baron's ring, but sliding in the muck, you drop it. Try as you might, you cannot locate the precious object in the town's filth.
And Here, Quoted Without Permission, Footkerchief's Toady Quotes Regarding Filth
And Here, Quoted Without Permission, Footkerchief's Toady Quotes Regarding Filth
Haha, I'd forgotten about that. Glad it's getting some mileage.
The more fluids I can drown elves in the better.
I wonder if waste could be compacted and used as fuel, actually.
I wonder if waste could be compacted and used as fuel, actually.IRL waste is obviously a bad choice for fuel, since its only been used as such where no other sources exist, such as the Great Plains.
once we need fuel for cooking, dried waste should be used as a minor fuel. i'm not sure about firing clay or something. also, i think chamber pots should get some love too. god, what is this obsession with latrines and sewers, are you guys some kind of fetishists?I hope not.
I would prefer a toogle-option for feces since i think noone should deal with stuff if (s)he does not want to.This was suggested many times, so if this idea was ever added, it would have an init to disable it. Just as invaders, caveins, economy, and so on can be disabled.
In the Middle Ages people just shit anywhere and everywhere. Having straws work(no straws in DF yet), shitting in rivers work(fish actually eat human feces, everything was hungry back in the days). Shitting in the fields work(fertilize). A sewage system wasn't exactly necessary since nature just took care of it easily.Nature was quite overwhelmed with the shitload of shit, which was one reason why medieval cities had such high mortality. Shitting everywhere is not right, but emptying the pot on the streets was the rule. Until there was a lack of fertilizer and some enterprising citizens appropriated that valuable commodity that was just lying there. After a few fights for particularly big piles, the city government leased the right to collect it to the highest bidder.
Absolutely not. I'm not a civil engineer and I will be damned if I play a game where I have to design and make dwarves construct sewers.That's why you'd just have the option of letting them go in a river or on the ground. You could just channel the river into the fort and put a toilet over it. No harder than water supply is now.
My forts will go from having 1-2 major death spirals per game start to a never-ending slaughterfest of disease and insanity. Not FUN.
Absolutely not. I'm not a civil engineer and I will be damned if I play a game where I have to design and make dwarves construct sewers.That's why you'd just have the option of letting them go in a river or on the ground. You could just channel the river into the fort and put a toilet over it. No harder than water supply is now.
My forts will go from having 1-2 major death spirals per game start to a never-ending slaughterfest of disease and insanity. Not FUN.
Full support but Toady said he didn't want it in so don't count on it.