Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 04:36:24 pm
Players
Pandarsenic- Human Detective/KookToonyMan- Doppelganger Intelligence ScientistOrg-Human Townsperson- Advanced Doppelganger (replaced Leafsnail)Mr.Person- Human Guardian- Leafsnail - Former Human Agent, now Advanced Doppelganger
JanusTwoFace- Human ReporterCriptfeind- Human War Vetforsaken1111- Human Psychic Warden- Jokerman-EXE - Doppelganger Vigilante
webadict- Human Psychic WardenLoneWolf I- Human Intelligence Mad Scientist/KookSolifuge- Alien ExterminatorJim Groovester- Human DetectiveOttofar- Human Vengeful GuardToaster- Human EnchanterNUKE9.13- Doppelganger Observant Guard/Mind Shield
Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 04:36:54 pm
Here is the (current) list of possible roles:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Definitions:
Doppelganger: These foul creatures kill and eat humans, taking on all of their memories and abilities. Once they have a form, most doppelgagners cannot change again. They are a flawed species, and possess and uncontrollable bloodlust forcing them to kill and eat humans each night. Their goal is to destroy all of the humans in the town and make their way out into the larger world.
Night Kill: Any kill that happens during the Night Phase. The Doppelgangers and Cultists each get 1 Night Kill as a group, in addition to any allowed by Roles.
Morningkill: A morning kill happens between the day and night phase, and cannot be prevented by abilities that prevent night kills. (Such as the Guardian)
Abduction: When a player abducts another player, two things happen. First, the abducted player is role-blocked for the night. Second, that player is removed from play for that night (and possibly the game). While removed, they cannot be the target of any other night action and cannot vote or be lynched during the day. Exceptions: The Paranoid War Vet and Sentry Gun are not role-blocked by an abduction, and will kill the player attempting the abduction. Abducted players are not role-flipped until their abductor leaves the game.
I've written a perl script to pick roles and whatnot randomly. It has some rules that it follows, but it should make for a nice amount of randomness to the set-up. Note that while I'll generally just go with whatever it spits out, I may make modifications to the set-up in order to make a more interesting game or to test out a specific feature. Also note that I will intentionally mess or not mess with stuff just to screw up anyone depending on the Gambler's Fallacy.
Not all roles are guaranteed. In fact, it's quite possible to have a game with nothing but normal doppelgangers and humans.
There will only be, at most, 2 of any given role per side for Humans and Doppelgangers (other then townsperson, normal doppelganger, and cultist)
There can only be 1 of each Alien Role in a game. An Exterminator can have either an Operative or a Controlled Doppelganger working with him, not both.
Spoiler: Current Role Matrix (click to show/hide)
General Rules:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Feel free to ask for clarification on any rule.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 14, 2010, 04:38:13 pm
Also In.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 14, 2010, 04:38:30 pm
IN. I sent this message in 3 times but it kept giving me IP errors, oh well.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 14, 2010, 04:46:46 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 14, 2010, 04:52:03 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on May 14, 2010, 04:52:32 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2010, 05:16:02 pm
Post by: Org on May 14, 2010, 05:17:57 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 14, 2010, 05:57:31 pm
Post by: webadict on May 14, 2010, 06:24:20 pm
Post by: Ethereal.Frog on May 14, 2010, 09:47:14 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 15, 2010, 01:08:33 am
...by which I mean In.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2010, 07:18:55 pm
Post by: Ottofar on May 16, 2010, 02:08:52 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on May 17, 2010, 11:37:36 am
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 17, 2010, 11:38:57 am
Post by: Toaster on May 17, 2010, 12:23:13 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 17, 2010, 12:32:19 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on May 17, 2010, 12:38:32 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 17, 2010, 12:43:16 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 17, 2010, 12:51:45 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Leafsnail on May 17, 2010, 01:03:18 pm
Afraid that Mafia's got a strict "No Appliances" clause, Toaster. We only take pretentious, self-deprecating, or overly nerdy usernames 'round these parts.What would I go under?
Post by: Org on May 17, 2010, 01:16:11 pm
All of them. :)Afraid that Mafia's got a strict "No Appliances" clause, Toaster. We only take pretentious, self-deprecating, or overly nerdy usernames 'round these parts.What would I go under?
Post by: Diablous on May 17, 2010, 03:07:44 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on May 17, 2010, 03:09:25 pm
I'll get the game started sometime today or tomorrow morning, time permitting.
First, though, we need to decide if some new tech for the Mad Scientists is going in this game. Head over to the discussion thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34959.0) to talk about it.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 19, 2010, 12:02:56 pm
Nestled in a secluded valley in Montana, your militia group has been gaining strength for the past few years. People of all walks of life have joined you, united by your distrust of the corrupt government and the things that you know are true.
But now it seems the Government has discovered you, and seeks to destroy you from within. Four pods were discovered the other day, mostly charred in an attempt to burn the evidence but enough remained for you to identify them.
Doppelgangers.
Here.
Among you.
You'll have to find and root them out before they kill you all. Well, you won't give in that easily! You didn't work this hard just to give up and let the scumbags in Washington win. You'll find these monsters, and make them pay!
Day 1 has started! It will go until ~5pm Pacific Friday
NOTE: If you did not receive your Role PM, please go look here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57599
If you still don't have it after changing that, let me know and I'll resend it.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2010, 12:16:27 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2010, 12:17:18 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 19, 2010, 12:23:08 pm
Post by: Org on May 19, 2010, 12:23:23 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 19, 2010, 01:30:39 pm
Leafsnail: Who do you think is the easiest to pick out when they are scum?JanusTwoFace, probably. Although he was better last game.
Criptfeind. Do you prefer being town or scum? On an irrelevant note, were you happy when you found out your alignment?
Post by: Solifuge on May 19, 2010, 01:34:02 pm
Criptfeind, I too am curious as to the inner thinkings of your brainmeats.
Post by: Ottofar on May 19, 2010, 01:38:21 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on May 19, 2010, 01:43:18 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2010, 02:01:15 pm
Ottofar, are you trying to go for an easy lynch?
Yeah he is man.
Post by: Ottofar on May 19, 2010, 02:05:24 pm
Ottofar, are you trying to go for an easy lynch?
Yeah he is man.
Was that like: Yes he is, man/pal/old chum/other such thing, or
Yes, Ottofar is male?
No. Are you defending Solifuge?
Ottofar, are you trying to go for an easy lynch?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2010, 02:07:25 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2010, 02:09:16 pm
Which is usually true.
Post by: Ottofar on May 19, 2010, 02:13:25 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2010, 02:15:52 pm
And I doubt he'll do so.
Post by: Ottofar on May 19, 2010, 02:18:38 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2010, 02:21:17 pm
Ottofar, are you trying to go for an easy lynch?
Yeah he is man.
Was that like: Yes he is, man/pal/old chum/other such thing, or
Yes, Ottofar is male?
I was answering the question you just asked.
Post by: Ottofar on May 19, 2010, 02:30:49 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 19, 2010, 02:56:20 pm
Hello, Solifuge. Are you bandwagoning?But of course I'm bandwagoning. Gotta lynch someone, right?
My vote remains.
Post by: Diablous on May 19, 2010, 03:02:48 pm
THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ARGUMENT.Hello, Solifuge. Are you bandwagoning?But of course I'm bandwagoning. Gotta lynch someone, right?
My vote remains.
... You can not be serious.
Post by: Ottofar on May 19, 2010, 03:04:40 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2010, 03:11:53 pm
Nice job being invisible scum.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 19, 2010, 03:23:17 pm
Yes. Jeez, it's like you guys have never seen RVS before.No. Are you defending Solifuge?
Ottofar, are you trying to go for an easy lynch?
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2010, 03:25:05 pm
Post by: Diablous on May 19, 2010, 03:33:16 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 19, 2010, 03:37:18 pm
Org, do you think he's being serious with his claims? I don't.
Post by: Org on May 19, 2010, 03:47:15 pm
Two votes is hardly a bandwagon in a 16 player day.Absolutely.
Org, do you think he's being serious with his claims? I don't.
/sarcasm
Post by: Criptfeind on May 19, 2010, 03:52:21 pm
Criptfeind. Do you prefer being town or scum? On an irrelevant note, were you happy when you found out your alignment?
I like being scum, I have only played as it one time but it was much easier.
I am not unhappy with being town though, specially if this game is good.
I am unhappy with my role though, I feel that it is to complicated for me.
Solifuge why would you vote me for no reason when I have a RVT vote on my already?
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2010, 05:34:57 pm
Wuba, why are you an alien?Why are you rolefishing?
My thoughts exactly.Ottofar.
End the Day.
Post by: Org on May 19, 2010, 05:42:07 pm
Yep. I finally know the scum, or at least, anti-town.Wuba, why are you an alien?Why are you rolefishing?My thoughts exactly.Ottofar.
End the Day.
Wuba Wuba Wubadict is an alien, because he didn't deny it.
Post by: Diablous on May 19, 2010, 05:42:35 pm
End the Day.
Now? It's a three-way tie between Cript, Ottofar, and Solifuge right now by my count.
Why do you want the day to end in a no-lynch, Web?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2010, 05:43:04 pm
Post by: Diablous on May 19, 2010, 05:44:52 pm
He found scum.
But it's a three-way tie, so there will be no lynch. If he's found scum, doesn't he want them to be lynched?
Post by: Criptfeind on May 19, 2010, 05:46:03 pm
Ottofar.
End the Day.
That is a little harsh.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 19, 2010, 05:47:22 pm
Ottofar.
End the Day.
That is a little harsh.
But is it true? Do you think Web is right?
(Thanks Webadict, I think I can say that RVS is over!)
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2010, 05:49:18 pm
Why are you freaking out? Aren't you just adding to the tie you wish to acknowledge but not stop?End the Day.
Now? It's a three-way tie between Cript, Ottofar, and Solifuge right now by my count.
Why do you want the day to end in a no-lynch, Web?
I'm now watching you.
No problem!Ottofar.
End the Day.
That is a little harsh.
But is it true? Do you think Web is right?
(Thanks Webadict, I think I can say that RVS is over!)
Post by: Criptfeind on May 19, 2010, 06:00:42 pm
Ottofar.
End the Day.
That is a little harsh.
But is it true? Do you think Web is right?
(Thanks Webadict, I think I can say that RVS is over!)
Well I should withhold judgment until Otto responds, but no, Web is wrong here. Otto is a newbie and always looks a bit like scum. I think it is extraneous to lynch him for one comment that was bad but more newbie than scum.
Post by: Diablous on May 19, 2010, 06:02:08 pm
Why are you freaking out? Aren't you just adding to the tie you wish to acknowledge but not stop?End the Day.
Now? It's a three-way tie between Cript, Ottofar, and Solifuge right now by my count.
Why do you want the day to end in a no-lynch, Web?
I'm now watching you.
A no lynch is not really good for the town. I don't want the day to end in a no-lynch. And I know I am adding to the tie. I am not getting any real anti-town read out of them to want to lynch them. But you try to end the day early with a no-lynch has caused me to suspect you over them.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 19, 2010, 06:04:43 pm
Why are you freaking out? Aren't you just adding to the tie you wish to acknowledge but not stop?End the Day.
Now? It's a three-way tie between Cript, Ottofar, and Solifuge right now by my count.
Why do you want the day to end in a no-lynch, Web?
I'm now watching you.
A no lynch is not really good for the town. I don't want the day to end in a no-lynch. And I know I am adding to the tie. I am not getting any real anti-town read out of them to want to lynch them. But you try to end the day early with a no-lynch has caused me to suspect you over them.
Quite honestly do you think he expects no one more to vote? Really?
Post by: Diablous on May 19, 2010, 06:19:34 pm
Why are you freaking out? Aren't you just adding to the tie you wish to acknowledge but not stop?End the Day.
Now? It's a three-way tie between Cript, Ottofar, and Solifuge right now by my count.
Why do you want the day to end in a no-lynch, Web?
I'm now watching you.
A no lynch is not really good for the town. I don't want the day to end in a no-lynch. And I know I am adding to the tie. I am not getting any real anti-town read out of them to want to lynch them. But you try to end the day early with a no-lynch has caused me to suspect you over them.
Quite honestly do you think he expects no one more to vote? Really?
He said, "End the Day." I took that to mean end the day now. If I misunderstood something, that's my mistake. It seemed to me that he wants the day to end quickly, and doing that while there is a tie seems suspicious to me.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 19, 2010, 06:20:21 pm
Because he knew he couldn't end the day alone, more would have to agree. And more would vote before that.
He said, "End the Day." I took that to mean end the day now. If I misunderstood something, that's my mistake. It seemed to me that he wants the day to end quickly, and doing that while there is a tie seems suspicious to me.
Post by: Diablous on May 19, 2010, 06:22:22 pm
Because he knew he couldn't end the day alone, more would have to agree. And more would vote before that.
He said, "End the Day." I took that to mean end the day now. If I misunderstood something, that's my mistake. It seemed to me that he wants the day to end quickly, and doing that while there is a tie seems suspicious to me.
*facepalm* I am an idiot.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2010, 06:36:39 pm
... You can not be serious.
Silly newbies. It's like you've never played a game with Solifuge before.
Now? It's a three-way tie between Cript, Ottofar, and Solifuge right now by my count.
Why do you want the day to end in a no-lynch, Web?
Why are you freaking out about a tie between those three people when the game just barely started?
Well I should withhold judgment until Otto responds, but no, Web is wrong here. Otto is a newbie and always looks a bit like scum. I think it is extraneous to lynch him for one comment that was bad but more newbie than scum.
Why are you defending Ottofar, this early in the game? It's like you're his partner or something.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 19, 2010, 06:40:36 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on May 19, 2010, 07:23:16 pm
Why are you defending Ottofar, this early in the game? It's like you're his partner or something.
Mostly I am waiting for him to respond/poking Web.
Post by: Diablous on May 19, 2010, 07:37:24 pm
Sorry, but some real life shit has popped up, and I won't be on B12 for a while. So I need to leave the game. Sorry.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 19, 2010, 08:02:33 pm
Soli, what's your game at this point? I mean, your claim there was very flippant, and not the read I would expect from scum you. What's the dilly, Willy?
Org, I can never read you. Top scumteam for this game?
Post by: Org on May 19, 2010, 08:07:09 pm
Leafsnail. WUBAdict, and Pandar.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 19, 2010, 08:10:36 pm
Are you anti-town, Org?
Post by: Mephansteras on May 19, 2010, 08:10:43 pm
Criptfeind : Leafsnail, Solifuge
Ethereal.Frog : forsaken1111
Leafsnail : JanusTwoFace, Toaster
Org : Jokerman-EXE
Ottofar : Mr. Person, webadict
Pandarsenic : ToonyMan
Solifuge : Criptfeind, Ottofar
webadict : Diablous, Org
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2010, 08:20:37 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 19, 2010, 08:25:00 pm
JanusTwoFace hasn't come into the game yet; I'm the one voting for Leafsnail.
...Jim is Janus-dopp?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2010, 08:33:09 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 19, 2010, 09:26:39 pm
No, the votecount is just wrong.
Jim, the mod is never wrong.
Do you think Ottofar is scum or just new? Have you picked up on any tells yet for anyone?
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2010, 09:29:16 pm
Unvote Leafsnail.Toaster...No, the votecount is just wrong.
Jim, the mod is never wrong.
Do you think Ottofar is scum or just new? Have you picked up on any tells yet for anyone?
How are you? Anyone suspicious to you?
Post by: Solifuge on May 19, 2010, 09:39:11 pm
Diabolus I know you requested a withdrawal, but why so wishy-washy? Same goes for whoever your replacement may be. Bowing to the crowd, calling your suspicions stupid, etc... in my
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 19, 2010, 09:41:14 pm
Also, woot for making it to 16 players! Anti-woot for loosing one already. :( And sorry for the wall of text.
Wuba, why are you an alien?
Role fishing == bad this early in the game. Helps the scum eliminate (or possible with an Exterminator) or team up with powerful roles.
Leafsnail: Who do you think is the easiest to pick out when they are scum?JanusTwoFace, probably. Although he was better last game.
Sigh. One bad game and another sort of bad and you're branded for life. At least when I fix my scumtells it will confused people horribly for a while.
Hello, Solifuge. Are you bandwagoning?
Scum Solifuge would not make the mistake of 'accidently' placing the first second vote of the game. Not saying he wouldn't do it on purpose, but that way lies all sorts of delicious wine.
Bandwagon is not RVS
And this is not a bandwagon.
I am unhappy with my role though, I feel that it is to complicated for me.
Either the smartest thing I've every seen you say or the stupidest. We'll see tomorrow morning.
My thoughts exactly.Ottofar.
End the Day.
Really? He isn't even as scummy (yet) as last time around. This, on the other hand, is scummy. And seems like a very Webadict thing to do.
Replacement requested
Mephansteras, if there is a lack of replacement, can we possibly get a mod kill / mod retcon of some sort? I don't want to go through not possibly having a read on someone again.
The Whiteboard
...
Leafsnail : JanusTwoFace, Toaster
...
Is this a hint of how I should vote? Or is Solifuge still screwing with my mind?
Diabolus I know you requested a withdrawal, but why so wishy-washy? Same goes for whoever your replacement may be. Bowing to the crowd, calling your suspicions stupid, etc... in myyearshours of Mafia experience, it's a good sign you're trying to be everyone's friend.
Voting or the missing player looks like going for the easy(er) lynch to me...
Anyways, Org is scum. At least until he convinces me that he's town (via scumhunting).
Post by: Toaster on May 19, 2010, 09:43:05 pm
Toaster...
How are you? Anyone suspicious to you?
I am swell, sir. And yourself?
So far, I've got nothing. The Ottofar/Soli/you roundabout looks like out of the gate finger pointing with little substance behind it as of now, and most everything else is a random vote.
I see you're voting Ottofar, but do you think he's scum or third party? If scum, sniffed out any scumbuddies yet?
Post by: Org on May 19, 2010, 09:43:51 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 19, 2010, 09:45:59 pm
Toony did the same thing almost.
Hmmm? Anyway.
Going to be a busy day tomorrow, peace out.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 19, 2010, 09:52:09 pm
Jokerman-EXE: Do you smell what the Rock is cooking?
(That is, what's your opinion of Web's accusation of Ottofar and Diablous and criptfeind trippin' ballz trying to defend him?)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2010, 09:53:04 pm
Jim, the mod is never wrong.
The fuck is this? JanusTwoFace hasn't even posted in this game, but he's listed as voting Leafsnail. However, I'm the one voting Leafsnail, because JTF has yet to vote at all.
Clear? The mod is human, he makes mistakes.
Do you think Ottofar is scum or just new? Have you picked up on any tells yet for anyone?
It's hard to tell whether a new player is scum or not, because they haven't learned how to play town correctly yet. I don't know whether Ottofar is scum or not.
As for scum tells, here's one:
Toaster is new to being scum, so he asks strong town players for any scum tells he can go after, because he can't find any on his own.
Unvote Leafsnail. Am I wrong, Toaster?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2010, 09:55:30 pm
When I said JTF hadn't even posted in the game, that was correct at the time I was typing, but five unread replies later I am wrong.
Post by: Toaster on May 19, 2010, 10:10:52 pm
Jim, the mod is never wrong.
The fuck is this? JanusTwoFace hasn't even posted in this game, but he's listed as voting Leafsnail. However, I'm the one voting Leafsnail, because JTF has yet to vote at all.
Clear? The mod is human, he makes mistakes.Do you think Ottofar is scum or just new? Have you picked up on any tells yet for anyone?
It's hard to tell whether a new player is scum or not, because they haven't learned how to play town correctly yet. I don't know whether Ottofar is scum or not.
As for scum tells, here's one:
Toaster is new to being scum, so he asks strong town players for any scum tells he can go after, because he can't find any on his own.
Unvote Leafsnail. Am I wrong, Toaster?
I guess you missed my joke tell. As for your question, I just picked someone to ask a question. You looked good at the time, and it seemed a decent question to ask. You do seem a bit jumpy though- got something hidden there?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2010, 10:16:31 pm
I can do my own scumhunting. You can't, since you need to go around asking everybody else what to do.
Since you have to ask other people, it makes me think you already know who the scum are, namely you and your partners, and you're looking at other people to give you suggestions on who to attack to look like town. Only scum need to do this. Bad scum.
You're new. This seems like the kind of mistake a newbie scum might make.
Post by: webadict on May 19, 2010, 10:21:04 pm
... That's a lame answer. You mean to say you have no opinion on anyone whatsoever?Toaster...
How are you? Anyone suspicious to you?
I am swell, sir. And yourself?
So far, I've got nothing. The Ottofar/Soli/you roundabout looks like out of the gate finger pointing with little substance behind it as of now, and most everything else is a random vote.
I see you're voting Ottofar, but do you think he's scum or third party? If scum, sniffed out any scumbuddies yet?
Post by: Solifuge on May 19, 2010, 10:29:57 pm
I can do my own scumhunting. You can't, since you need to go around asking everybody else what to do.Scumhunt like a Hero! Believe in the Groove Star that believes in you!
Since you have to ask other people, it makes me think you already know who the scum are, namely you and your partners, and you're looking at other people to give you suggestions on who to attack to look like town. Only scum need to do this. Bad scum.
You're new. This seems like the kind of mistake a newbie scum might make.
Were I to hypostulate*, given what I've seen, I'd say Diabolus, Ottofar, and... someone else. This is tempered by the fact that I've never played with either of them before.
------
* A portmanteau of Hypothesis and Postulate. And no, it's not in the dictionary. I pulled it out of the dictionary in my ass.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 19, 2010, 10:33:41 pm
Toony: Because my Ethics midterm Friday has turned me evil 'cause I thought the review session tonight was not 7-9 like last time and I thought it was but it was actually 5-7 and fuck my life forever.
Jokerman-EXE: Do you smell what the Rock is cooking?
(That is, what's your opinion of Web's accusation of Ottofar and Diablous and criptfeind trippin' ballz trying to defend him?)
Whoa, thanks for actually posting.
I think that there's a very slim chance that all three are scum (I'm just saying for the sake of saying); more likely, in my mind, is that since all three are new, they're trying to figure out what to do still. I'm not seeing scum on my screen yet though.
And you? What do you think?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2010, 10:43:10 pm
Scumhunt like a Hero! Believe in the Groove Star that believes in you!
But, bro! I can't scumhunt like you! I'm scared!
Were I to hypostulate*, given what I've seen, I'd say Diabolus, Ottofar, and... someone else. This is tempered by the fact that I've never played with either of them before.
Someone else, like Toaster? Dude's scum, let me tell ya.
Post by: Toaster on May 19, 2010, 10:44:25 pm
... That's a lame answer. You mean to say you have no opinion on anyone whatsoever?
Well, if you any opinion I have either way...
forsaken has a very tiny question mark next to him. It's not really based on anything much, but reply #47 could be him trying to start something on Soli. It's very weak, though.
Jim was awfully defensive in response to my vote.
Web, you're acting your normal self, so no flags raised there.
Soli is being flippant, but to the best of my knowledge that's normal as well.
Post by: Ethereal.Frog on May 19, 2010, 11:00:22 pm
Jim Groovestar. Seemed FAR TOO DEFENSIVE and such. Also, he's directing way too much hate at Toaster over a simple joke.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 19, 2010, 11:03:05 pm
Scumhunt like a Hero! Believe in the Groove Star that believes in you!
But, bro! I can't scumhunt like you! I'm scared!
Go beyond the impossible and kick scum to the curb.
WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE?!
Isn't your scumhunting the one that will pierce through the heavens, the earth, (the scum) and on to tomorrow?
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 19, 2010, 11:05:46 pm
Web, you're acting your normal self, so no flags raised there.
!!
Hold up, how do you know Wuba's normal self?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2010, 11:14:07 pm
Scumhunt like a Hero! Believe in the Groove Star that believes in you!
But, bro! I can't scumhunt like you! I'm scared!
Go beyond the impossible and kick scum to the curb.
WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE?!
Isn't your scumhunting the one that will pierce through the heavens, the earth, (the scum) and on to tomorrow?
Hey Hey Hey Hey HEY HEY! You with the ugly mug!
I am The Mighty Jim Groovester!
I had a post here where I laid all my thoughts bare and ended with a sentence that included too much strike-through.. Then I accidentally hit mouse4 and lost the post. Too bad.
Jim Groovestar. Seemed FAR TOO DEFENSIVE and such. Also, he's directing way too much hate at Toaster over a simple joke.
It's like a newbie scum convention in this thread.
How about this, Ethereal.Frog, you make a new post. You lay all your thoughts bare like you were planning. That way I can see if you're scum like Toaster or just a dumb n00b.
Else, I'll just say you're scum, and I bet there are a lot of people in this thread who would happily agree with me.
Post by: Toaster on May 19, 2010, 11:23:10 pm
Web, you're acting your normal self, so no flags raised there.
!!
Hold up, how do you know Wuba's normal self?
In the sense of how he normally acts in game.
Post by: Ethereal.Frog on May 19, 2010, 11:56:51 pm
Unvote Jim Groovestar because I'm a scared lazy noob.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 12:03:38 am
Go sign up for a Beginner's Mafia and shape up your game damn quick because you will be lynched at the rate you're going.
Here's a hint: You look like town by looking for scum. Do that.
And that's the last one you'll get from me because I don't want to hold anybody's hands or ignore scummy behavior just because they're new.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 01:00:29 am
I can do my own scumhunting. You can't, since you need to go around asking everybody else what to do.Scumhunt like a Hero! Believe in the Groove Star that believes in you!
Since you have to ask other people, it makes me think you already know who the scum are, namely you and your partners, and you're looking at other people to give you suggestions on who to attack to look like town. Only scum need to do this. Bad scum.
You're new. This seems like the kind of mistake a newbie scum might make.
Were I to hypostulate*, given what I've seen, I'd say Diabolus, Ottofar, and... someone else. This is tempered by the fact that I've never played with either of them before.
------
* A portmanteau of Hypothesis and Postulate. And no, it's not in the dictionary. I pulled it out of the dictionary in my ass.
Vector, why don't you try getting some real opinions instead of just going for a bunch of noob lynches?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 01:03:06 am
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 01:05:14 am
Solifuge, then.
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 07:48:49 am
If it's because of "My thoughts exactly"-thing, I posted it, because Diablous was there first, and those were my exact thoughts. (I have the warning for new replies on).
That's scummy. You just vote me, with practically no reason at all. With no questions.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 20, 2010, 07:54:50 am
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 08:12:25 am
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 08:15:09 am
Webadict, Do you have something personal against me?
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 20, 2010, 08:18:27 am
Also, attack or don't attack. None of this half-attack poking crap.
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 08:22:58 am
Anyhow better?
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 20, 2010, 08:29:18 am
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 08:31:00 am
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 09:00:27 am
Who else is acting normally?Web, you're acting your normal self, so no flags raised there.
!!
Hold up, how do you know Wuba's normal self?
In the sense of how he normally acts in game.
I think that Webadict is scum, he just wants to lynch someone, and save Solifuge, who's also scum.That's stupid and a stretch: One, if I were scum, I'd be more aggressive on the people allowing me to say "End the Day." Two, if I were going to save anyone from being lynched, it'd be at a time when I could do that, such as the end of the Day or by, you know, finding scum. Three, I'm not sure what you're freaking out about, but you need to cut it out. Four, I'd never save Solifuge even if he were my scummate because I'm pretty sure he's fine without my help, and if he's not, he was doing a poor job and deserved to die. Mostly because saving a scummate that's already sticking his head in a noose is basically like saying, "Any room for two?"
Anyhow better?
But, anything else you'd like to say to me? I mean, I appreciate the semi-OMGUS you've got going, but you're going to have to speak up. I can hardly hear your attack.
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 09:05:20 am
On what grounds are you voting me,
and
Do you have something personal against me?
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 09:17:21 am
Apparently, in my sleep-deprived state, I mistook one person for another. Usually it happens with Meph and Pand, though. Eh.Vector, why don't you try getting some real opinions instead of just going for a bunch of noob lynches?Vector is not in this game.
Solifuge, then.
Supposing I might have to quantum leap Into Vector's slot then, which basically means I'm Vector now guys.
Ehem....
Math math math, quince and kiwi tart, etc.
My nefarious plan to steal Vector's identity is working! Follow me into oblivion, doodabuddies! Muahaha!
...but seriously, making bad lynch votes is the new scumhunting. You should try it.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 09:31:31 am
I asked you two questions, WebadictI'm voting you on the grounds that I put your name in red. That's a color.
On what grounds are you voting me,
and
Do you have something personal against me?
And why would I have anything against you?
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 09:39:27 am
Why did you vote me, Webadict?
And to your question: I don't know, it just seems that you do.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 09:53:11 am
*sigh* Why must you make this hard?Why? That's a profound and clearly long-answer provoking question. It probably has to do with the very nature of this game: Lynching monsters so that they won't be able to kill you later that Night. The real question is why are there monsters to begin with? Where did they come from? How do the Aliens know not only where we are, but not know about who else is here? I mean, the Exterminator probably has a shipful of weaponry, yet acts like a moron instead of blowing up the Earth. The Scientist is taking his sweet time just kidnapping three species, instead of using a Stun Orb and taking everyone. At once. And what kind of Survivor doesn't live by himself on a tropical island or something?
Why did you vote me, Webadict?
And to your question: I don't know, it just seems that you do.
But, that's off-topic. I'm voting you because I feel like it. That, and I'm really only using it as a placeholder until I find someone better.
So, seriously calm down before you burst a blood vessel.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 20, 2010, 09:57:35 am
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 10:00:00 am
Post by: Leafsnail on May 20, 2010, 10:02:07 am
My thoughts exactly.This looks stupid. But, in my opinion
Wow, you don't give a shit who you lynch? You're just hopping on the first easy bandwagon you see?Actually looks worse, like an attempt to jump on an easy bandwagon (and one that might actually succeed).
Nice job being invisible scum.
Yep. I finally know the scum, or at least, anti-town.Crappy argument is crappy.
Wuba Wuba Wubadict is an alien, because he didn't deny it.
A no lynch is not really good for the town. I don't want the day to end in a no-lynch. And I know I am adding to the tie. I am not getting any real anti-town read out of them to want to lynch them. But you try to end the day early with a no-lynch has caused me to suspect you over them.Uh... isn't it fairly obvious that, if other people agreed to end the day, they'd also be coming to the same conclusion and voting Ottofar? It's not like saying "End the day" instantly ends it.
Leafsnail, are you going to kill me Night 1 because you hate me anddelete delete delete delete delete deleteoverestimate my abilities at scumhunting accurately?
Uh, I mean, no. Besides, we worked together nicely in VM5.
I guess you missed my joke tell. As for your question, I just picked someone to ask a question. You looked good at the time, and it seemed a decent question to ask. You do seem a bit jumpy though- got something hidden there?Toaster.
forsaken has a very tiny question mark next to him. It's not really based on anything much, but reply #47 could be him trying to start something on Soli. It's very weak, though.Your read are weak, terrible, useless and really useless respectively.
Jim was awfully defensive in response to my vote.
Web, you're acting your normal self, so no flags raised there.
Soli is being flippant, but to the best of my knowledge that's normal as well.
I had a post here where I laid all my thoughts bare and ended with a sentence that included too much strike-through.. Then I accidentally hit mouse4 and lost the post. Too bad.What do you think Toaster's alignment is, Ethereal.Frog?
Jim Groovestar. Seemed FAR TOO DEFENSIVE and such. Also, he's directing way too much hate at Toaster over a simple joke.
Webadict, on what grounds are you voting me?:/
If it's because of "My thoughts exactly"-thing, I posted it, because Diablous was there first, and those were my exact thoughts. (I have the warning for new replies on).
That's scummy. You just vote me, with practically no reason at all. With no questions.
...Is there a good reason why you're not voting webadict now? Who do you find more suspicious?
Also, I've decided to testrun a new policy from mafiascum: not posting townreads unless the person in question is in danger of being lynched/ is making a claim that requires believing. It gives the scum less info on who to kill.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 20, 2010, 10:04:25 am
Soli, what's your game at this point? I mean, your claim there was very flippant, and not the read I would expect from scum you. What's the dilly, Willy?
@Ottfar, do you still think Solifuge is more scummy than WUBA?
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 10:06:41 am
Okay. You just didn't ask a question, which made me a bit suspicious.Random Vote Stage
You're doing it wrong.
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 10:20:29 am
]color=red]Unvote. Solifuge[/color], unless I'm mistaken, you haven't answered my question.Soli, what's your game at this point? I mean, your claim there was very flippant, and not the read I would expect from scum you. What's the dilly, Willy?
@Ottfar, do you still think Solifuge is more scummy than WUBA?
Yeah, a bit. They're pretty much as scummy.
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 10:23:28 am
]color=red]Unvote. Solifuge[/color], unless I'm mistaken, you haven't answered my question.Soli, what's your game at this point? I mean, your claim there was very flippant, and not the read I would expect from scum you. What's the dilly, Willy?
I'm assuming you meant to unvote and then vote me there.
The sticky wicket surrounding the revelation of My Game is that it renders it largely powerless, much as the RVS is rendered largely powerless once it's become institutionalized. Everyone knows what to expect, and thus how they are being read.
At any rate, it's already been rendered useless against roughly 1/3 of our players, from past experience, but it's still semi-effective against people who've never played with me before.
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 10:38:48 am
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 10:42:02 am
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 10:42:51 am
Okay, Solifuge. Who three do you think are the scum?I don't think he has to answer that when you have yet to.
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 10:45:01 am
Okay, Solifuge. Who three do you think are the scum?I don't think he has to answer that when you have yet to.
Webadict, Solifuge. Not specifically anyone third.
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 10:52:30 am
Glad of you to join us! Care to explain your former self's waffly quasi-help, and friendly demeanor?
Post by: NUKE9.13 on May 20, 2010, 11:20:57 am
Unvote Diabolus, Vote Nuke9.13 for clarity.Glad to be here! It has been a while since my last game, so forgive me if I take a while to get up to speed. I read through the thread when meph asked me to replace Diablous, but I am going to do so again. We shall see whats what once I've done that.
Glad of you to join us! Care to explain your former self's waffly quasi-help, and friendly demeanor?
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 20, 2010, 11:27:49 am
]color=red]Unvote. Solifuge[/color], unless I'm mistaken, you haven't answered my question.Soli, what's your game at this point? I mean, your claim there was very flippant, and not the read I would expect from scum you. What's the dilly, Willy?
I'm assuming you meant to unvote and then vote me there.
The sticky wicket surrounding the revelation of My Game is that it renders it largely powerless, much as the RVS is rendered largely powerless once it's become institutionalized. Everyone knows what to expect, and thus how they are being read.
At any rate, it's already been rendered useless against roughly 1/3 of our players, from past experience, but it's still semi-effective against people who've never played with me before.
Ah, yes. My bad.
Well, that's...honestly, extremely suspicious. You're playing different from last game, when you were Town. My vote's gonna stay while I observe you more.
Post by: Toaster on May 20, 2010, 11:32:08 am
Who else is acting normally?
Org is. There's not much point in me dipping into meta for most of the others, because I can't pick out their "normal."
Leafsnail: Is there a question there, or just an accusation?
forsaken1111: You've yet to clearly articulate any suspicious. Do you not have any, or are you just lying back waiting for people to hunt each other to death?
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 11:37:40 am
Well, that's...honestly, extremely suspicious. You're playing different from last game, when you were Town. My vote's gonna stay while I observe you more.Interpret as you will. I'm not putting much energy or concern into acting "the same as usual". Remaining unpredictable and without too blatant a pattern is 50% of my formula.
The road less-traveled, m'boy. It's what all true warriors strive for.
Also, Nuke, feel free to forget the transgressions of the past, and start not exhibiting the same tells that Diabolus was, whenever you want to.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 20, 2010, 11:38:03 am
Nuke9.13: Solifuge
Ethereal.Frog : forsaken1111, Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester : Ethereal.Frog, Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Ottofar : webadict
Pandarsenic : ToonyMan
Solifuge : Criptfeind, Jokerman-EXE, Mr. Person, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
webadict : Nuke9.13, Org
Day 1 ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 12:26:15 pm
forsaken1111: You've yet to clearly articulate any suspicious. Do you not have any, or are you just lying back waiting for people to hunt each other to death?Actually I was asleep, then working, and now I've been having great fun reading the several pages that have popped up since my last post.
As for suspicions, I'm dropping my random vote (Unvote) calling Solifuge on this one.
Unvote Diabolus, Vote Nuke9.13 for clarity.
Glad of you to join us! Care to explain your former self's waffly quasi-help, and friendly demeanor?
Seriously? You jumped on someone for being replaced? That's not even a reason. Combine this with your other behavior, I think you're desperately trying to deflect.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on May 20, 2010, 12:34:26 pm
This is what is going down:
After going through the thread, I have questionmarks next to the following people:
Toaster: Has this guy never played mafia before, or does he have a history of being an idiot? Otherwise, he is acting real off.
At some point he mentioned a 'joke tell'. I am not sure to what he was referring, but it doesn't matter: I hope to god that it was a real tell, because deliberately acting like scum (whilst you are town) is not, has not been, and never will be helpful to the town, and, in fact, detracts from the town's strength, as people are lead off on wild goose chases. So, you are either scum, or town screwing it up for the rest of us. >:|
Org: I know it was a RVS thing, but why care about aliens? At this point in the game, dopps are a far greater threat than any hypothetical aliens, of which only the exterminator and his operative are a major threat to the town. ??
Solifuge: My lack of recent activity means I have no frame of reference against which to judge his puzzling behaviour. From what I have seen, though, it is simply a RVS ploy. ?
Ottofar: Man, what? This guy, so crazy. Practically every post of his has been crazy defensive or scummy. ????
Criptfiend: Complaining that your role is too complex? Firstly, if you can't handle every role on the roster, why are you playing; secondly, what the hell? You're claiming a complex role? That suggests that you aren't worried that you will be killed off for your high-value role, which in turn suggests you are scum yourself. Also, he seemed eager to protect Ottofar, who seems pretty suspicious himself. ???
Ethereal.Frog:
Unvote Jim Groovestar because I'm a scared lazy noob.HA HA HA THATS OK THEN, YOU ARE ONLY A NOOB, HA HA.
Is this guy actually an expert mafia player who is being ironic? If not, you cannot get away with this. You cannot deflect any attention that comes your way by means of a joke. This one post is as good as meph himself saying 'this guy is scum'. >:| >:|
Ethereal.Frog
Um, I replaced Diabolous. FYI.forsaken1111: You've yet to clearly articulate any suspicious. Do you not have any, or are you just lying back waiting for people to hunt each other to death?Actually I was asleep, then working, and now I've been having great fun reading the several pages that have popped up since my last post.
As for suspicions, I'm dropping my random vote (Unvote) calling Solifuge on this one.Unvote Diabolus, Vote Nuke9.13 for clarity.
Glad of you to join us! Care to explain your former self's waffly quasi-help, and friendly demeanor?
Seriously? You jumped on someone for being replaced? That's not even a reason. Combine this with your other behavior, I think you're desperately trying to deflect.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 12:37:40 pm
Um, I replaced Diabolous. FYI.Yes... and he's attacking you right away. Sure maybe he's just trying to get a read on you, more likely he's trying to convince others that he's being helpful townie.
Post by: Toaster on May 20, 2010, 12:46:21 pm
Toaster: Has this guy never played mafia before, or does he have a history of being an idiot? Otherwise, he is acting real off.
At some point he mentioned a 'joke tell'. I am not sure to what he was referring, but it doesn't matter: I hope to god that it was a real tell, because deliberately acting like scum (whilst you are town) is not, has not been, and never will be helpful to the town, and, in fact, detracts from the town's strength, as people are lead off on wild goose chases. So, you are either scum, or town screwing it up for the rest of us. >:|
I am indeed new. The "joke tell" comment was me referring to the joke I cracked to Jim about moderators never being wrong. It came off very badly, so clearly I need to think twice about joking comments.
Post by: Ethereal.Frog on May 20, 2010, 12:51:01 pm
I had a post here where I laid all my thoughts bare and ended with a sentence that included too much strike-through.. Then I accidentally hit mouse4 and lost the post. Too bad.What do you think Toaster's alignment is, Ethereal.Frog?
Jim Groovestar. Seemed FAR TOO DEFENSIVE and such. Also, he's directing way too much hate at Toaster over a simple joke.
That upper bit's meant to be somebody's quote, but I'm messed up the formatting and then stopped caring.
Me defending Toaster stopped making sense to me, just like everything else. Like, I still feel Jim is being a bit over-aggressive over that, but that makes sense now. But Toaster here, he hasn't done much other than poke Jim and ask other people what think. Seems like he's trying to gauge threats and mis-aim a lynch. Vote count indicates that that's not going to well. He seems scummy to me, but I'm still trying to determine whether or not mafia games run on a special set of logic rules that don't apply to anything else.
Ethereal.Frog:Unvote Jim Groovestar because I'm a scared lazy noob.HA HA HA THATS OK THEN, YOU ARE ONLY A NOOB, HA HA.
Now I realize that I've fucked myself over horribly by jumping on what seemed like a reasonably suspicion. Oh well. Wonder how long I'll last. I seriously have no idea what to do now. Probably just hop on the Solifuge wagon then lay down and wait to die. Yeah, that sounds good. I'm thinking today is my death. If not today, definitely tomorrow.
Solifuge
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 12:59:34 pm
Now I realize that I've fucked myself over horribly by jumping on what seemed like a reasonably suspicion. Oh well. Wonder how long I'll last. I seriously have no idea what to do now. Probably just hop on the Solifuge wagon then lay down and wait to die. Yeah, that sounds good. I'm thinking today is my death. If not today, definitely tomorrow.
Solifuge
No... just no. If you're going to vote someone, give a reason. Voice a suspicion. Or at least pressure them to get them to respond. Laying down to die and jumping on another bandwagon is not the way to look like town, OR to help the town. This doesn't help us at all.
In fact I had been distracted by Soli's odd behavior but after this? No I'm unvoting and going right back to you Ethereal.Frog. Admitting that you made a mistake is fine. But you're making ANOTHER mistake here, giving up and just jumping on an obvious bandwagon. Even if you ARE town, which I now doubt, you won't help be much help to us like this.
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 01:24:00 pm
Um, I replaced Diabolous. FYI.Yes... and he's attacking you right away. Sure maybe he's just trying to get a read on you, more likely he's trying to convince others that he's being helpful townie.
Make yourself suspicious enough by being just slightly off-kilter, and you're like one of those pheromone-based bug traps for scum, who are searching for anything that looks like a ""safe" lynch. Moreover, if it goes poorly and you end up getting lynched, you role-flip, and any scum silly enough to get caught in the trap have shown all sorts of wonderful tells for your teammates to pick up on.
I shall henceforth call this technique the Martyrbomb. Thanks for the suspicion, forsaken111! Much obliged.
Anywho, Ethereal.Frog, for serious. Trying to die is a really great way to... well, die. Bandwagoning, vote-hopping, professing how suspicious you must look to everyone, and vocally postulating about how likely you are to die is not an effective means of disuading others, or deflecting attention... it's called Lampshading, and it is a very poor defense.
What you need to do is hunt. Don't agree with others unless you get the same sort of feeling about them. If you do, provide evidence that adds to it, if possible. Unless you've got reasons, don't go hopping willy-nilly on the best opportunity to get someone killed, because that looks hella bad.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2010, 01:41:53 pm
Just for everyone around here, NUKE is a very dangerous mafia player so just be all 'round aggressive to everyone or else you're going nowhere.
Webadict and Ottofar situation,
Winner is Webadict, you want to know why? I'll tell you, Ottofar you fell for Webadict's trap he does every game. When Webadict does a vote in RVS he likes to use fallacious or something you don't want to do later on in the game, in this case he did something or another I don't remember what and you bit the trap. You became highly defensive and after finding out your mistake tried too hard to cover up.
Jim Groovy,
From another game I can tell Jim is not likely scum because of his hammy scum hunting behavior, which isn't a bad thing.
Ethereal.Frog,
Ugh, this is one of the worst situations in mafia. Think of it like Org, but a new player that doesn't keep sucking. Frog, this is for you buddy, map yourself a new town game right now. This reminds me of Diakron in a way and I always fell for it, lynching town constantly. Clean up or you will be lynched.
Toaster,
Don't say something you did was a joke, that doesn't work.
Pandarsenic,
Unvote, I'm done RVing now.
Ottofar, your reaction unnerves me to no end.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on May 20, 2010, 02:37:25 pm
Just for everyone around here, NUKE is a very dangerous mafia player so just be all 'round aggressive to everyone or else you're going nowhere.Aww, shucks. You're too kind.
DurrrI was going to rant at you for several paragraphs about giving up/the 'i give up defence' and why you may never use either, but it seemed overly harsh. I will summarise:
1)Never give up. If you give up, you break the game, ruining it for everyone else.
2)Never pretend to give up in a game without jesters. It never works and it is rage-inducing.
Anyway, lynch this guy, everyone. There can be no question. I remind you that just because a lynchee has been chosen does not mean we can stop scumhunting.
clearly I need to think twice about joking comments.Yes you should. In fact, you should think twice about making all comments, regardless of nature. Re-read every post before you post it, and think to yourself; could this be thought of as scummy (regardless of alignment)? If so, is there a different way of saying it?
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 02:48:44 pm
clearly I need to think twice about joking comments.Yes you should. In fact, you should think twice about making all comments, regardless of nature. Re-read every post before you post it, and think to yourself; could this be thought of as scummy (regardless of alignment)? If so, is there a different way of saying it?
...or you can be like me, and adopt utter flippancy, punctuated by player analysis and empathy-reads. I make fun in and about the game cosntantly, and have a good time at it, while also doing my best to fit in some scumhunting. It's also important to not let the silliness impede the Serious Business Mafiaficionados as they go about their hunts too. Gotta strike a balance.
Post by: Ottofar on May 20, 2010, 03:01:52 pm
@Nuke, you think I'm scummy here? Go see vote mafia 6.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 03:22:49 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 03:29:15 pm
Did you have a question nuke? It looked like it but I could not find one.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 03:40:47 pm
Unvote Solifuge
Did you have a question nuke? It looked like it but I could not find one.
Nice job, Criptfeind. You've just proven to me you're scum. As far as I can tell, Solifuge never actually answered your question, which means at the very least you don't care at all about your question. At worst, it means you're trying to get votes off of Solifuge, but in any event, you need to talk more.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 03:52:56 pm
you need to talk more.
I wont deny this I do need to talk more, but I am still reading and digesting the new content.
As far as I can tell, Solifuge never actually answered your question
It was not the response or the lack there of that made me unvote him. I wanted a read on him specifically for his actions and I got that. He seems silly but very very smart, he obviously does not care about the conventions of RVT as scum or town.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 05:23:02 pm
I'm assuming you meant to unvote and then vote me there.
The sticky wicket surrounding the revelation of My Game is that it renders it largely powerless, much as the RVS is rendered largely powerless once it's become institutionalized. Everyone knows what to expect, and thus how they are being read.
At any rate, it's already been rendered useless against roughly 1/3 of our players, from past experience, but it's still semi-effective against people who've never played with me before.
Then what's the point of even playing the game if we all know what to expect? If 1/3 of the players are immune, is RVS really rendered "largely powerless"? This doean't make a lot of sense to me, please clarify.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 05:31:59 pm
Post by: Org on May 20, 2010, 05:34:54 pm
No. You don't.
And Mr person is just like vote unvote I dont know what to think.
other than that you know they are buds.
And toaster. Saying I am normal. Psh.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 06:07:48 pm
Seems to me you gave up pretty easy there. So you're convinced that he's town already?
For now, I think he legitimetly thinks Solifuge is town. Mostly, he didn't really know what I was accusing him of. Secretly, I wanted to see if he was unvoting Solifuge to save him. If criptfeind was mafia, then that's exactly what he did and would of reacted accordingly. Since he didn't react as though I were accusing him of trying to save Solifuge, I'm guessing the thought never crossed his mind.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 06:08:35 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 06:27:06 pm
It was not the response or the lack there of that made me unvote him. I wanted a read on him specifically for his actions and I got that. He seems silly but very very smart, he obviously does not care about the conventions of RVT as scum or town.
Mind that smart does not equate to trustworthy, and I can point to copious evidence that I can BS with the best of them. Mind that you're not giving people a free ride based on the semblance of knowing what they're doing. >.o
Also, Mr.Person, you're snuggling a bit too close to me. I need an adult.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 06:27:10 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 06:29:00 pm
It was not the response or the lack there of that made me unvote him. I wanted a read on him specifically for his actions and I got that. He seems silly but very very smart, he obviously does not care about the conventions of RVT as scum or town.
Mind that smart does not equate to trustworthy, and I can point to copious evidence that I can BS with the best of them. Mind that you're not giving people a free ride based on the semblance of knowing what they're doing. >.o
Also, Mr.Person, you're snuggling a bit too close to me. I need an adult.
I never said you weren't scum, I just said cripfeind isn't scum. I'll get back to you, you're not out of the woods yet.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 06:30:38 pm
It was not the response or the lack there of that made me unvote him. I wanted a read on him specifically for his actions and I got that. He seems silly but very very smart, he obviously does not care about the conventions of RVT as scum or town.
Mind that smart does not equate to trustworthy, and I can point to copious evidence that I can BS with the best of them. Mind that you're not giving people a free ride based on the semblance of knowing what they're doing. >.o
Yer, I know, I will still watch you but I know now that I wont be able to get anything from your RVT.
forsaken1111 is clearly scum.
Any reason why?
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 06:33:33 pm
Then what's the point of even playing the game if we all know what to expect? If 1/3 of the players are immune, is RVS really rendered "largely powerless"? This doean't make a lot of sense to me, please clarify.
1/3 of players have shown signs that they see what I'm doing, hence its effectiveness is somewhat diminished. I've already explained the methodology here though, so no biggie:
Make yourself suspicious enough by being just slightly off-kilter, and you're like one of those pheromone-based bug traps for scum, who are searching for anything that looks like a ""safe" lynch. Moreover, if it goes poorly and you end up getting lynched, you role-flip, and any scum silly enough to get caught in the trap have shown all sorts of wonderful tells for your teammates to pick up on.
I'd be happy to clarify, but I was under the impression it was pretty straightforward. Anywho, has JanusTwoFace yet graced us with his shining faces? Because I smell a lurker, and it smells Real bad.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 06:38:26 pm
I think you're just trying to explain away future scuminess by saying "Oh, but that was my plan!" which is, of course, stupid. So don't even try.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 06:39:37 pm
If you're going to try this shit, don't even bother signing up.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 07:00:10 pm
I'd be happy to clarify, but I was under the impression it was pretty straightforward. Anywho, has JanusTwoFace yet graced us with his shining faces? Because I smell a lurker, and it smells Real bad.
JanusTwoFace is at an AI conference in Florida or something (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1268282#msg1268282).
Going after lurkers is nice and all, but you seem to have forgotten that JTF has an excuse. So, Solifuge, why are you going after lurkers when you could be scumhunting and why are you going after lurkers who have stated their reasons for sporadic posting?
Man, I missed out on Kamina quote night.
Just for everyone around here, NUKE is a very dangerous mafia player so just be all 'round aggressive to everyone or else you're going nowhere.
A warning? From ToonyMan? That seems unlike you, ToonyMan.
The rest of the post I took this quote from is also uncharacteristic of ToonyMan (ToonyMan never uses underlines). So why are you trying to change the way you play your game, ToonyMan?
Okay, Solifuge. Who three do you think are the scum?
Do your own scumhunting, scum.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 20, 2010, 07:04:05 pm
Ethereal.Frog : Nuke9.13, forsaken1111, Jim Groovester, Solifuge
forsaken1111 : webadict
Jim Groovester : Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Ottofar : ToonyMan
Solifuge : Ethereal.Frog, Jokerman-EXE, Mr. Person, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
webadict : Org
Day 1 Ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 20, 2010, 07:06:10 pm
Groovestar, you're throwing out accusations - no, not even accusations. You're just calling everyone scum for the most minor details. Soli forgets someone had an excuse, you pound him for it. Toony pointed out a player most of us don't know, you pound him for it. Ottofar asks a question, DAY ONE, and you pound him for it (though the bluntness of that one made me chuckle).
Why are you so frantic on accusing everyone? Do you have other suspicions?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 07:35:29 pm
I'd rather accuse somebody of being scum for something minor in the hopes that I get lucky and they reveal more than they should have, instead of politely asking somebody something so they have a chance to answer calmly.
If you want a reason for why I developed this attitude, I'll give you one example. In my first Paranormal game, I discovered one of Pandarsenic's scum tells. I politely approached him about it, and he explained it off. I should have pounced on him for it, because he was scum in that game, and I was right about him being scum.
Aggression's the name of the game, Jokerman-EXE, and I have enough of it to go around for everybody.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 07:40:49 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 20, 2010, 07:41:44 pm
I understand the need to pounce and push and be the most you can be, etc., but you seem to have gone beyond that into the ostentatious. You're literally calling people scum for either nothing (or what could be nothing) as with Soli, and with Ottofar, for doing exactly what you're doing. Maybe to a lesser degree, but if that's grounds for attacking someone, then you should be attacking every single person other than yourself.
You're trying to throw as much dust in the air as possible. You're scum.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 20, 2010, 07:42:03 pm
Also, GroovSTER. NOT GrooveSTAR.
Oh, I know. I just call you that for fun.
I'll stop if you want though.
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 07:50:24 pm
JanusTwoFace is at an AI conference in Florida or something (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1268282#msg1268282).
Going after lurkers is nice and all, but you seem to have forgotten that JTF has an excuse. So, Solifuge, why are you going after lurkers when you could be scumhunting and why are you going after lurkers who have stated their reasons for sporadic posting?
I didn't recall that he was out-of-town, and going through the list of players, he was the only one whom we hadn't been hearing from. Just trying to get him into the game, and am not "going after him".
Solifuge, there's this glaringly obvious flaw in your plan: If you don't be off-kilter at all, then you won't get lynched at all. So instead of telling lies to all the new players, why don't we all agree that the best plan for a townie to follow is to find and vote for scum. No "looking slightly off-kilter", no bullshit, just question people and vote the scum.
I think you're just trying to explain away future scuminess by saying "Oh, but that was my plan!" which is, of course, stupid. So don't even try.
Before you respond with "Oh, but my plan worked!" there's another flaw in your plan. If you do something scummy, YOU GET TOWNIES VOTING YOU! OH HO HO, YOUR PLAN BACKFIRED!
If you're going to try this shit, don't even bother signing up.
(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1489/angryyellingvulpix.jpg)
Mr. Person is the angriest Vulpix ever.
Accusing me of lying is something I don't follow you on... you appear to be trying really hard to twist what I've openly shared into the most negative-sounding thing you can. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and figure you're just trying to convince yourself of your own words, rather than trying to frame me. Even so, your argument is like trying to get someone lynched for participating in the Random Vote ritual. The baiting tactic I used is an opener, meant to extract reactions out of players, and done in a way that isn't as obvious and thus has a better chance of getting a more telling response out of people. It's different than the Random Vote, but no less useful, and done at a point in the game where, don't forget, we have NOTHING to go on but how people react.
For instance you are showing signs of aggressive hunting, which is usually a good tell by its own merits. However, in doing it you're joining others in a popular opinion, and pressing it aggressively, which is a very safe thing to do. It has the subconscious benefit of making the others who have voted before you feel like you're "with" them, on the same team, with the same goals. It's vehement buddying, by alignment of your overt goal with theirs.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 20, 2010, 07:53:19 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 07:55:52 pm
I don't think I have a bandwagon on me, and I don't believe Mr.Person is most likely scum right now. I'm accusing him of making safe moves, but giving the veneer of aggression, which is a very self-preservationist move. It's not a scum tell, but its selfish.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2010, 07:58:31 pm
Man, I missed out on Kamina quote night.
Just for everyone around here, NUKE is a very dangerous mafia player so just be all 'round aggressive to everyone or else you're going nowhere.
A warning? From ToonyMan? That seems unlike you, ToonyMan.
The rest of the post I took this quote from is also uncharacteristic of ToonyMan (ToonyMan never uses underlines). So why are you trying to change the way you play your game, ToonyMan?
I once deceased wise man said variety is the way of life.
Webadict,
Once is OK, but I'm seconding the why is Forsaken scum bit. You went off Ottofar really really fast, why is this?
Jokerman and Jim,
I agree with Jim, I full heartily agree with constant pressure and attacks, it makes scum nervous and slip up their play. Also, stop pissing people off by spelling their name wrong on purpose I hate having my name misspelled as well.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 08:08:01 pm
...into the ostentatious.
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
There's a difference between aggression and blind shotgunning.
I don't criticize your scumhunting methodology, so don't criticize mine.
Alright, let's go on a case by case basis of proving that what I'm doing is not, in fact, scummy behavior, but rather, pro-town aggressive behavior that everybody seems to recognize except for you.
Solifuge
Scum like going after lurkers because they are safe targets of suspicion and so that they appear helpful going after them. JTF stated before he was going to be busy with a conference, so he's partially exempt from participation. However, Solifuge went after him anyway. This made me suspicious. I made an accusation (or rather an insinuation) to see Solifuge's response.
ToonyMan
The post I quoted didn't look like ToonyMan's typical behavior. Things that look out of place are often enough scum tells, so I asked him about it.
Ottofar
I accused Toaster of being scum for doing the exact same thing: asking other people who they found suspicious. It's not a terrible thing to do, so long as the person asking has clearly defined suspicions, but if it's the other way around then it is suspicious.
As you can see (or perhaps not), this is not overly-aggressive behavior, and I find the notion that I am scum for being too aggressive absolutely ridiculous.
I'll stop if you want though.
Please do.
Jokerman and Jim,
I agree with Jim, I full heartily agree with constant pressure and attacks, it makes scum nervous and slip up their play. Also, stop pissing people off by spelling their name wrong on purpose I hate having my name misspelled as well.
Thanks, ToonyMan! You're the best bro ever!
I once deceased wise man said variety is the way of life.
This new ToonyMan has much greater clarity, so I like the change. But I'll still watch you (perhaps not as closely as other people) just in case.
I didn't recall that he was out-of-town, and going through the list of players, he was the only one whom we hadn't been hearing from. Just trying to get him into the game, and am not "going after him".
Ah, but you FOSed him. If you wanted to get him back in the game, that was an unnecessary move. You said you smelled a lurker something bad, which appears more to be an attempt at putting suspicion onto JTF, not getting him back into the game.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 08:09:11 pm
So you're saying that your opening gambit (gambits are for scum, not town, btw) is to intentionally act a little scummy to see who jumps on you? Again, you've never addressed the problems with this. Specifically, you gather the ire of townies who caught your scuminess. So even if you do manage to catch a scum somehow, you're very likely to have gained the votes of townies. And then you get lynched, since many players never let go of their first lynch target. Now tell me, how is getting townies and maybe a scum or two to lynch you useful at all? I don't see how that's useful, but I do see being able to explain that your scummy actions as "intentional" or "traps to catch scum" as very useful... if you're scum.
So since I can't see any logical reason for you to do what you're doing as town, you must be scum. And if you are town, learn to not do retarded things like intentionally act scummy. This discussion is over. Intentionally acting scummy is retarded. Period. Trying to argue it is like saying that it's a good idea to play Football really poorly in practice and warm-ups so when the actual game starts, you can get a surprise goal/touchdown on the opposing team. Significant problems relating both to how effective the strategy is at harming your opponents and how much it hurts the rest of your team.
@ToonyMan: How do you misspell your name? TonyMan? TownyMan?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2010, 08:13:11 pm
That reminds me,
@Meph: Sometimes you send PMs to the wrong ToonyMan, someone has an account called Tooneyman and they get those sometimes, I would never know why though, pfft.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 08:31:50 pm
Oh, I'm just making notes right now. Never you mind what I'm secretly writing about you behind your backs.Man, I missed out on Kamina quote night.
Just for everyone around here, NUKE is a very dangerous mafia player so just be all 'round aggressive to everyone or else you're going nowhere.
A warning? From ToonyMan? That seems unlike you, ToonyMan.
The rest of the post I took this quote from is also uncharacteristic of ToonyMan (ToonyMan never uses underlines). So why are you trying to change the way you play your game, ToonyMan?
I once deceased wise man said variety is the way of life.
Webadict,
Once is OK, but I'm seconding the why is Forsaken scum bit. You went off Ottofar really really fast, why is this?
Jokerman and Jim,
I agree with Jim, I full heartily agree with constant pressure and attacks, it makes scum nervous and slip up their play. Also, stop pissing people off by spelling their name wrong on purpose I hate having my name misspelled as well.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 20, 2010, 08:37:19 pm
I wasn't saying that too much attacking is scum behavior, rather that your attacks didn't make much sense to me and it seemed like you were being (it seemed to me) overly town to cover your scumminess. Your explanation has countered that belief, thank you.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 08:45:39 pm
Jim Groovester is also scum.
But you are wrong. I am town.
Unvote, you've satisfied the questions asked.
I wasn't saying that too much attacking is scum behavior, rather that your attacks didn't make much sense to me and it seemed like you were being (it seemed to me) overly town to cover your scumminess. Your explanation has countered that belief, thank you.
Overly... town... cover... scumminess?
That doesn't make much sense as to how that's possible, but whatever. Glad we got that over with.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 20, 2010, 08:57:50 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 09:05:06 pm
So you're saying that your opening gambit (gambits are for scum, not town, btw) is to intentionally act a little scummy to see who jumps on you? Again, you've never addressed the problems with this. Specifically, you gather the ire of townies who caught your scuminess. So even if you do manage to catch a scum somehow, you're very likely to have gained the votes of townies. And then you get lynched, since many players never let go of their first lynch target. Now tell me, how is getting townies and maybe a scum or two to lynch you useful at all? I don't see how that's useful, but I do see being able to explain that your scummy actions as "intentional" or "traps to catch scum" as very useful... if you're scum.
So since I can't see any logical reason for you to do what you're doing as town, you must be scum. And if you are town, learn to not do retarded things like intentionally act scummy. This discussion is over. Intentionally acting scummy is retarded. Period. Trying to argue it is like saying that it's a good idea to play Football really poorly in practice and warm-ups so when the actual game starts, you can get a surprise goal/touchdown on the opposing team. Significant problems relating both to how effective the strategy is at harming your opponents and how much it hurts the rest of your team.
So many fightin' words... and you're real desperate to get the last word in there too, aren'tcha? I've explained this at the start of every game, and I'm getting tired of having to do it over and over again. The method is sound, and you're blowing it out of proportion as though I had lied, and are trying your damnedest to spin EVERYTHING as scummy. Do you recall the thing I did, which you are accusing me on the basis of?
I placed a second vote on Criptfeind, got some magnificently telling responses out of Ottofar, forsaken1111, and Diabolus/Nuke. After that, I dropped the vote and began actual hunting. Woop-de-friggin'-do. Best stop the day and lynch me now, because is that not the scummiest thing ever?
...No. In fact, you've stopped looking for scum, and are tunneling on me at this point, Mr. Vulpix. You've had nothing new to add or say in the last 2 pages of tunneling, and are being of no use to the town. Do you have anything productive or new to add to the discussion here? Or questions for anyone but me? Because for all your talk about effective tactics, you're doing nothing to help town find scum.
If you are still confused, I'd advise you reread the Start of Day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1266532#msg1266532), back when you acknowledged what I was doing, and back when pushing a lynch on me would have made no sense. You seem to have forgotten that once I got enough random votes, though.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 09:26:34 pm
Fuck that noise, he can answer.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 09:34:22 pm
So you know webadict. I don't know his meta, he may be like this as town, you all seem to not really think this odd.Here is my answer to all of your reasons:
Fuck that noise, he can answer.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 09:45:06 pm
So you know webadict. I don't know his meta, he may be like this as town, you all seem to not really think this odd.Here is my answer to all of your reasons:
Fuck that noise, he can answer.
I said he can answer not.
I EXPLICITLY DO NOT WANT HIM TO ANSWER.
So you know, it may be nice.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 09:46:01 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 09:48:35 pm
He has ignored me.
And by people I mean forsaken but I wish to know why you as well.
Post by: Toaster on May 20, 2010, 09:49:10 pm
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 09:54:17 pm
I have asked him before why is is saying people are scum without attacking them.Why would I need to attack them?
He has ignored me.
And by people I mean forsaken but I wish to know why you as well.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 09:55:26 pm
Web is scum.
Everyone should vote him.
Than vote for the day to end.
How is this hard for you?
Post by: Org on May 20, 2010, 09:57:24 pm
Vote Cript
Reasons are on above post.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 09:58:43 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2010, 10:00:50 pm
Jim, your insistence on being town and continued defensiveness is only solidifying my suspicions. You may be aggressively hunting (which is fine), but nothing is stopping you from doing that as scum. My vote stands.
I am hunting aggressively, but somehow because I declared I was town (and I wasn't lying), and I am defensive somehow, I am scum.
That's pretty dumb. If I didn't have to lynch Ethereal.Frog I would be voting for you for being dumb noob obvscum.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 10:07:24 pm
Why is Org attacking better than Web. Can anyone tell me this?Is THAT your attack?
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 10:09:01 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 10:12:59 pm
So many fightin' words... and you're real desperate to get the last word in there too, aren'tcha? I've explained this at the start of every game, and I'm getting tired of having to do it over and over again. The method is sound, and you're blowing it out of proportion as though I had lied, and are trying your damnedest to spin EVERYTHING as scummy. Do you recall the thing I did, which you are accusing me on the basis of?
I placed a second vote on Criptfeind, got some magnificently telling responses out of Ottofar, forsaken1111, and Diabolus/Nuke. After that, I dropped the vote and began actual hunting. Woop-de-friggin'-do. Best stop the day and lynch me now, because is that not the scummiest thing ever?
...No. In fact, you've stopped looking for scum, and are tunneling on me at this point, Mr. Vulpix. You've had nothing new to add or say in the last 2 pages of tunneling, and are being of no use to the town. Do you have anything productive or new to add to the discussion here? Or questions for anyone but me? Because for all your talk about effective tactics, you're doing nothing to help town find scum.
If you are still confused, I'd advise you reread the Start of Day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1266532#msg1266532), back when you acknowledged what I was doing, and back when pushing a lynch on me would have made no sense. You seem to have forgotten that once I got enough random votes, though.
I see you've finally caught on that I'm serious. Either that, or you're taking offense that I'm attacking your idiotic play style rather than you. Maybe it's both.
Your method is not sound, it's RETARDED! I just went over this. It might catch scum, but you wanna know what works better? Going out and FINDING THE LITTLE FUCKERS! You can't seem to accept the fact that acting scummy and seeing who votes you (townies and good scum) is a less effective scumhunting way than getting reactions and voting who has scummy reactions (scum and bad townies). I cannot be alone in this. I know some of the rest of you have opinions on umm... Reverse Scumhunting. It's reverse because you're doing it ASS-BACKWARDS. You're trying to get the scum to come to you. Wanna know the flaw of this plan? The scum can just lurk and win, and you'll never be the wiser because you'll be stuck tangling with the townie that decided you were scum.
It isn't what you've done, it's the method you're claiming to scumhunt by. Let's act scummy! Derp derp! This won't backfire, how could it? Herp derp!
I'm tunnelling you, yes. That doesn't make my argument any less true, but if you think I'm scum, come out and accuse me of it, Captain Passive. Actually, this is a thinly veiled method to try and get me to forget about you. Sorry, I'm not going to roll that way. And sure I'm helping the town find scum, I'm convincing them you're scum.
You're the one that's confused. As soon as I noticed what bullshit you were spouting (Let's act scummy!) I attacked you for it. The fact I was already voting you only sweetened the deal. You're underestimating me, btw. When I started voting you, you already had two votes and RVS was over. I'm 100% sure I would push somebody (you, probably, considering your plan was to literally get people to attack you). It's not ideal, but if I wasn't pushing somebody, I would be asking some really easy questions until somebody says some bullshit I call them on. Like you.
Or Webadict.
That's stupid and a stretch: One, if I were scum, I'd be more aggressive on the people allowing me to say "End the Day." Two, if I were going to save anyone from being lynched, it'd be at a time when I could do that, such as the end of the Day or by, you know, finding scum. Three, I'm not sure what you're freaking out about, but you need to cut it out. Four, I'd never save Solifuge even if he were my scummate because I'm pretty sure he's fine without my help, and if he's not, he was doing a poor job and deserved to die. Mostly because saving a scummate that's already sticking his head in a noose is basically like saying, "Any room for two?"
Webadict, you know better than to spread WIFOM like that. Yes, most of your points are true, but they're also irrelevant now. And anyways, most of these are passive jabs or defensive, so you need to get a lot more aggressive. To everyone who thinks this is normal Webadict; it's not. Webadict is usually MUCH more aggressive. This is just crap, and if there weren't more grievous scum errors for me to be after, I'd be on Webadict like a dog.
Or Jokerman.
Unvote, you've satisfied the questions asked.
I wasn't saying that too much attacking is scum behavior, rather that your attacks didn't make much sense to me and it seemed like you were being (it seemed to me) overly town to cover your scumminess. Your explanation has countered that belief, thank you.
"He looks so much like town, he must of been scum acting like town!" Or, you know TOWN ACTING LIKE TOWN! You're too smart for this shit, Jokerman. Try again.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 10:19:52 pm
It is a addition to the attack and a direct statement to you that I am unhappy and wish you to get lynched. Also that you are not helping.So, you admit you are only trying to lynch me due to my lack of information? Is this a repeat of BMX?
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 20, 2010, 10:22:33 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on May 20, 2010, 10:23:59 pm
This whole game is a mess.
You're a mess. Way to contribute.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 10:25:11 pm
It is a addition to the attack and a direct statement to you that I am unhappy and wish you to get lynched. Also that you are not helping.So, you admit you are only trying to lynch me due to my lack of information? Is this a repeat of BMX?
Yes. No.
Nice idea bringing up a game probably no one read though. To bad I was, you know in it, so I know when you are making shit up.
By the way the answer to that first question is now no.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 10:27:13 pm
So, you admit to having no real reason to vote me before now then, do you not? Doesn't that make you a bit of a hypocrite, since your problem with me is that?It is a addition to the attack and a direct statement to you that I am unhappy and wish you to get lynched. Also that you are not helping.So, you admit you are only trying to lynch me due to my lack of information? Is this a repeat of BMX?
Yes. No.
Nice idea bringing up a game probably no one read though. To bad I was, you know in it, so I know when you are making shit up.
By the way the answer to that first question is now no.
The only difference is I'm still collecting data, while you are merely making things up on the spot.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 20, 2010, 10:31:44 pm
Toony: Because my Ethics midterm Friday has turned me evil 'cause I thought the review session tonight was not 7-9 like last time and I thought it was but it was actually 5-7 and fuck my life forever.
How in the world do you still have midterms? It's the end of May already!
I had a post here where I laid all my thoughts bare and ended with a sentence that included too much strike-through.. Then I accidentally hit mouse4 and lost the post. Too bad.
Type in a seperate program. Or get Lazurus if you use Firefox. Or come up with a better excuse if you are trying to pretend to have more content than you actually do if that's the case.
See, I was going to vote for webadict because I am a complete noob and have no idea what's going and he has a couple of votes on him already. My actual reasoning for this doesn't work at all though, now that I've actually looked at it. The idea was I'd conform to stuff to avoid drawing attention to myself, but then later I was like "hold on that's stupid." But I was really suspecting you, Jim, because of how defensive youwere over there when Toaster made a simple joke. And all the hate. But I also forget what most people posted in between then and now. And I'm [n]to lazy[/b] to read them all again.
First one is a classic example of bandwagoning. Scummy, especially the way you were going to do it. Second is something scum need to do. The only time I can think of for town to avoid attention is in a game with a single cop and you're the cop. In a role-heavy game like Paranormal, town should not try to avoid attention. The third is just generally a bad excuse.
I think that Webadict is scum, he just wants to lynch someone, and save Solifuge, who's also scum.
Anyhow better?
No. Everyone does something scummy at least once a game, even when they're town. Find out what your target has done that's scummy and push until you get a response.
Unvote Diabolus, Vote Nuke9.13 for clarity.
Glad of you to join us! Care to explain your former self's waffly quasi-help, and friendly demeanor?
Seriously? You jumped on someone for being replaced? That's not even a reason. Combine this with your other behavior, I think you're desperately trying to deflect.
I've seen people replace in and lurk to victory. I've seen Nuke9.13 lurk to victory. Solifuge's pressure seems to me to be to make sure that neither of those happens.
Now I realize that I've fucked myself over horribly by jumping on what seemed like a reasonably suspicion. Oh well. Wonder how long I'll last. I seriously have no idea what to do now. Probably just hop on the Solifuge wagon then lay down and wait to die. Yeah, that sounds good. I'm thinking today is my death. If not today, definitely tomorrow.
Solifuge
The suspicion was reasonable enough, it's how you worded it that was awful. And scummy. And this *really* *really* doesn't help matters. Giving up == scummy. Not scum hunting == scummy. Bandwagoning == scummy (especially how you're doing it).
Don't give up until you're dead. Not even then if there's a Medium around.
I'd be happy to clarify, but I was under the impression it was pretty straightforward. Anywho, has JanusTwoFace yet graced us with his shining faces? Because I smell a lurker, and it smells Real bad.
Didn't expect the game to start so quickly, I really only have time for one good post in the evenings until tomorrow. I'll post a more after that.
This whole game is a mess.
And you're lurking. Big time. You have less than half a dozen posts this game with little content between them. Why?
Org posts since my last
Reply #84 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1268291#msg1268291) - Worthless (1 line)
Reply #154 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1270275#msg1270275) - Almost useful comment on Mr.Person (5 lines)
Reply #191 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1270885#msg1270885) - Half hearted attack on Criptfeind (3 lines)
Org, you're still being less than helpful. To top it off, you're lurking more than most games I've seen you in. You're scum. If you're not scum, I'm still leaning towards lynching you so we don't get to the end game and have to figure out how to read your lack of posts.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2010, 10:34:08 pm
So, you admit to having no real reason to vote me before now then, do you not? Doesn't that make you a bit of a hypocrite, since your problem with me is that?It is a addition to the attack and a direct statement to you that I am unhappy and wish you to get lynched. Also that you are not helping.So, you admit you are only trying to lynch me due to my lack of information? Is this a repeat of BMX?
Yes. No.
Nice idea bringing up a game probably no one read though. To bad I was, you know in it, so I know when you are making shit up.
By the way the answer to that first question is now no.
The only difference is I'm still collecting data, while you are merely making things up on the spot.
I had no more reason to you other than you being so very unhelpful. So I said yes. Than I read your next sentence and now I have even more reasons to vote you. So I said that it changed to no.
Also, like most attacks from me it did not start as a try to lynch you but rather as a try to get you to say what you are thinking. The more you are unhelpful the more I want to lynch you.
The two hopeful out comes are ether:
1: You die
2: You talk
I was going to say that most of the time that does not work but than I realized that we have only done this once before and it totally worked.
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 10:36:42 pm
And now its dead. Good job.
I don't see anything unusual coming from Webadict. He's baiting folks hard though, and it's funny to watch.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 20, 2010, 10:42:23 pm
Because my Ethics midterm Friday has turned me evil 'cause I thought the review session tonight was not 7-9 like last time and I thought it was but it was actually 5-7 and fuck my life forever.
Remember that?
Yeah.
I had to go learn two weeks of material in two nights 'cause I missed that session.
I'm fucking exhausted and I can't even pick out obvscum because the nublets are throwing everything off with their singularity-like levels of scuminess.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 11:16:25 pm
Okay, let's TALK then...So, you admit to having no real reason to vote me before now then, do you not? Doesn't that make you a bit of a hypocrite, since your problem with me is that?It is a addition to the attack and a direct statement to you that I am unhappy and wish you to get lynched. Also that you are not helping.So, you admit you are only trying to lynch me due to my lack of information? Is this a repeat of BMX?
Yes. No.
Nice idea bringing up a game probably no one read though. To bad I was, you know in it, so I know when you are making shit up.
By the way the answer to that first question is now no.
The only difference is I'm still collecting data, while you are merely making things up on the spot.
I had no more reason to you other than you being so very unhelpful. So I said yes. Than I read your next sentence and now I have even more reasons to vote you. So I said that it changed to no.
Also, like most attacks from me it did not start as a try to lynch you but rather as a try to get you to say what you are thinking. The more you are unhelpful the more I want to lynch you.
The two hopeful out comes are ether:
1: You die
2: You talk
I was going to say that most of the time that does not work but than I realized that we have only done this once before and it totally worked.
Let's see... I'm gonna just deconstruct you for now, since I'm having a heck of a time keeping track of everyone while cleaning.
Basically, you're all like "Hey, WUBA is always WUBA." You play it cool in this post:
Why are you freaking out? Aren't you just adding to the tie you wish to acknowledge but not stop?End the Day.
Now? It's a three-way tie between Cript, Ottofar, and Solifuge right now by my count.
Why do you want the day to end in a no-lynch, Web?
I'm now watching you.
A no lynch is not really good for the town. I don't want the day to end in a no-lynch. And I know I am adding to the tie. I am not getting any real anti-town read out of them to want to lynch them. But you try to end the day early with a no-lynch has caused me to suspect you over them.
Quite honestly do you think he expects no one more to vote? Really?
Seemingly, you're even defending my actions while also berating me for them here:
Well I should withhold judgment until Otto responds, but no, Web is wrong here. Otto is a newbie and always looks a bit like scum. I think it is extraneous to lynch him for one comment that was bad but more newbie than scum.
And here:
Ottofar.
End the Day.
That is a little harsh.
It's like you're playing both side of the field at once. The fact that the defense comes later is odd. And it's not a paradigm shift until I vote forsaken1111, where YOU ask for reasons. That's not something you should be worrying about. No that's something forsaken and I are discussing. Then, I accuse Jim Groovester, and you decide, "Hey, you know what? I have no one else to vote, so I'll vote you, WUBA."
This means you are basically going down to RVing and then tunneling until you find information, a clearly and obviously scummy way to do things.
And all because I accused forsaken and Jim Groovester. Did I tough a nerve? Perhaps the one connected to the Doppelganger bone connected to the other Doppelganger bone?
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 11:17:40 pm
No that's something forsaken and I are discussing.We are? I don't actually care that you voted me and I don't recall discussing it.
Post by: Org on May 20, 2010, 11:20:18 pm
Pulling a pandar here:Finals week is what I must worry about.
Post by: webadict on May 20, 2010, 11:33:08 pm
So you don't care that I'm currently voting you?No that's something forsaken and I are discussing.We are? I don't actually care that you voted me and I don't recall discussing it.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 20, 2010, 11:34:10 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 11:35:49 pm
No not really. Should I?So you don't care that I'm currently voting you?No that's something forsaken and I are discussing.We are? I don't actually care that you voted me and I don't recall discussing it.
Post by: Solifuge on May 20, 2010, 11:40:08 pm
No not really. Should I?So you don't care that I'm currently voting you?No that's something forsaken and I are discussing.We are? I don't actually care that you voted me and I don't recall discussing it.
The obvious answer would be "yes", if you were any possible alignment. I do understand that you're pointedly trying to play it cool, though, so you get at least 100 FonzPoints for that.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 11:41:29 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 20, 2010, 11:46:56 pm
All taken together, it makes for a suspicious picture. Thoughts?
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 20, 2010, 11:48:11 pm
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 12:05:49 am
-shrug-I've now decided that you should die. You have given us plenty of time to both scan others before we lynch you.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 12:08:28 am
-shrug-I've now decided that you should die. You have given us plenty of time to both scan others before we lynch you.
You're just mad that he decided to not take you seriously.
Fragile ego and all that.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 12:09:00 am
Awesome.
Wuba is just an idiot, and if you follow his lead you'll lose.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 01:03:50 am
Not being serious means you're not trying. At all. But you can be passive aggressive against me as a minor OMGUS all you want, it's still not going to add anything to the conversation so far nor will it be used as a stepping stool for conversation. Anything else you'd like to make yourself look scummy with?-shrug-I've now decided that you should die. You have given us plenty of time to both scan others before we lynch you.
You're just mad that he decided to not take you seriously.
Fragile ego and all that.
This is fun. Wuba votes me, I don't get worried about a random vote, so that makes me scum?No, you're not DOING anything. Period. You're content with that? No defense? Do you care to die? Because whichever team you're on takes a hit, which basically means you're not playing to win. That's the best. Following my lead isn't something people do. People are voting you because they see you as scummy. Not because I do. You had plenty of time to participate.
Awesome.
Wuba is just an idiot, and if you follow his lead you'll lose.
Seriously, don't ever join a game again. Ever. I will harass you endlessly if you decide to and use my powers as an S rank to boot you out of any you so happen to join.
I have no patience for you if you're going to be the whiniest baby alive. Why did you even join?
P.S. Yeah, this is hilarious. Now, take a gun, check to make the sure the safety's off, hold it tilted upward toward yourself below your ear on either side of your head, and pull the trigger. If you don't die, you failed to load the gun or follow directions. Don't worry, you'll laugh yourself to death from the results.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 01:06:16 am
Seriously, don't ever join a game again. Ever. I will harass you endlessly if you decide to and use my powers as an S rank to boot you out of any you so happen to join.What the fuck is this? You're threatening me with some made-up rank because I don't play the way you think I should play? Go to hell.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 21, 2010, 01:16:53 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 01:18:36 am
Web is just being a cock.
Post by: Solifuge on May 21, 2010, 01:20:28 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 01:22:20 am
It's a game, and Web has decided to make it meta and personal. I'd like Meph's take on that, since he is hosting this game.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 21, 2010, 01:22:58 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 01:24:01 am
Post by: Mr.Person on May 21, 2010, 06:06:59 am
If forsaken1111 doesn't care about votes, I'll donate mine.
I'd just like to point out that Pand originally voted Forsaken because Forsaken wasn't responding to votes. And I'd also like to point out that not responding to getting voted is in no way a scum tell. Only afterwards did Pand say anything about Forsaken's lack of scumhunting. Pand, response?
Post by: Leafsnail on May 21, 2010, 07:32:57 am
For now though, I'd just like to say that forsaken looks town and webadict is an idiot.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 08:05:34 am
Most people would consider "not playing" a fairly bad playstyle. You continue to impress me with how little you know of the game and mafia in general due to your lack of knowledge or playing. You not only refuse to play, but also detract negatively from all the conversation by forcing players to tell you to play or die, and even going as far as to say that you won't do anything about anything.
What does that mean to the rest of us? Well, if you're scum, you've negatively impacted your team by losing a member on the first lynch. If you're town, you've screwed the town over by making us lynch you, losing a valuable lynch that could've lynched scum. You've also effectively destroyed Day 1 and any progress it may have made.
That's why you care. You're trying to lynch your other team. Not caring screws your team over, which means you're not playing to win. You're not even playing, period.
Hence, why I think you should copy and paste your role PM here. Everyone benefits from that, since you weren't really playing anyhow.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on May 21, 2010, 08:11:57 am
Solifuge, Mr.Person: I can't really see the big deal here, Mr.Person. You don't like his strategy? May I point out that in the RVS, all rules are off; any strategy is valid, anything to get someone to say something that can be discussed, leading to 'real' discussion.
Criptfiend, Webadict: You never played with web before, criptfiend? Its the way he does stuff. It is the same whether he is town or scum; the difference comes later, when he stops prodding people for reactions and starts handing out bricks of solid logic like they were candy. At that point, scum webadict's arguments are slightly more convulted than town webadict's. But trying to get web lynched for his infuriating prodding itself is not valid; it is, infact, an easy way to knock off webadict when you are yourself scum.
I want to see forsaken get up and actually play the game; if he does, my vote remains on ethereal.frog. If he refuses, my vote will be switched to him.
Post by: Solifuge on May 21, 2010, 09:09:55 am
Lets keep it civil and sane, as I'd rather not interrupt the game with a moderator intervention, and moreover would like us to be able to continue having mafia games on the forum.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 09:20:03 am
I don't approve of the personal attacks, death threats, and so on, whether or not they're done in hyperbole for effect. It's a line that I don't approve of folks crossing, and one of the things I won't hesitate to report on if it continues.The irony of the game being about killing people and then accusing other people of being scum is clearly lost on you.
Lets keep it civil and sane, as I'd rather not interrupt the game with a moderator intervention, and moreover would like us to be able to continue having mafia games on the forum.
That and you've in no way solved nor attempted to solve the initial problem: That being forsaken isn't playing.
So... this post is useless, yes?
Post by: Solifuge on May 21, 2010, 10:08:36 am
I understand what you're trying to do by it, but you can go too far, which is happening here. Whether or not you see it as I do, I'm going to be a stick in the mud; that sort of crap touches a nerve for me, on a personal level, which I'll not get into here.
Competition is fine. Frustration is fine. Just reign in threats and personal attacks, since it's not even remotely good sportsmanship.
Back to trying to lynch people. Unvote. I will make my final assessment of the day, and return once I have.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 10:25:23 am
You cannot see it, sir, but I am rolling me eyes.Fine. I shall refrain from such.
I understand what you're trying to do by it, but you can go too far, which is happening here. Whether or not you see it as I do, I'm going to be a stick in the mud; that sort of crap touches a nerve for me, on a personal level, which I'll not get into here.
Competition is fine. Frustration is fine. Just reign in threats and personal attacks, since it's not even remotely good sportsmanship.
Back to trying to lynch people. Unvote. I will make my final assessment of the day, and return once I have.
forsaken, play or get out of the game.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 10:50:57 am
Not being serious means you're not trying. At all. But you can be passive aggressive against me as a minor OMGUS all you want, it's still not going to add anything to the conversation so far nor will it be used as a stepping stool for conversation. Anything else you'd like to make yourself look scummy with?
And webadict erects a barrier of mafia jargon to protect himself from mockery.
webadict, since you've displayed the maturity of a child with your death threats, I will now refer to you appropriately.
So listen here, kid. You seem to think that forsaken1111 should die because he didn't take your random vote seriously... but that's exactly the correct response, especially with random votes from you. To do otherwise would elicit accusations of being overly defensive about a random vote, and so on.
So, kid, why are you throwing such a temper tantrum about somebody who responded correctly to a random pressure vote? Either your ego is as fragile as it is large, or you're scum trying to make a big fuss over nothiing.
Which one will it be, kid? You have a large, fragile ego that can shatter from the merest suggestion that it's unearned, or that you are scum?
Additionally, I now suspect Jokerman-EXE and Pandarsenic for the same reasons, although they have the further black marks of bandwagoning.
Forsaken: What the hell, mate? Its been said; you can't ignore people voting for you. Its an unwritten rule of Mafia: Play to win. Seeing as para has no jokers, that means you never* want to die. So start defending yourself; if you don't, you are ruining the game for the rest of us.
No, you're wrong. I've been at the end of a webadict random vote before, and I had the misfortune of asking why he had randomvoted me. Not an unreasonable request, right? Cue a day long accusation of how defensive I was, along with at least one scum following his lead. No, forsaken1111 played this one correctly.
Post by: Solifuge on May 21, 2010, 11:03:40 am
webadict, since you've displayed the maturity of a child with your death threats, I will now refer to you appropriately.
Jim, goading Webadict isn't exactly a sign of maturity either. In fact, you've been pretty inflamatory and petty yourself.
Moreover, what's the goal in asking him loaded questions, where he can't answer without either insulting himself, or admiting to being scum? Do you hope to force him to ignore the question, and then use that against him?
And thus, the scumhunt charade goes.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 21, 2010, 11:04:59 am
Additionally, I now suspect Jokerman-EXE and Pandarsenic for the same reasons, although they have the further black marks of bandwagoning.
I voted forsaken with the purpose of asking him about his passivity and apparent lack of care at his own death. I've seen scum adopt the very same behavior before, so it made me uncomfortable. I also resolved to watch forsaken for further signs.
I'm not going to say that I agree with WUBA's methods of going about it, but I do agree that unless forsaken is going to really get into it, there's no point in his being here, and lynching him for information is better than nothing. Throughout this whole big argument, I still haven't seen much content from forsaken regarding scumhunting, and while WUBA has been getting more and more abrasive, he did have some points worth considering at the beginning of this fiasco.
My vote remains until I see some action out of forsaken.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 21, 2010, 11:13:25 am
If forsaken1111 doesn't care about votes, I'll donate mine.
I'd just like to point out that Pand originally voted Forsaken because Forsaken wasn't responding to votes. And I'd also like to point out that not responding to getting voted is in no way a scum tell. Only afterwards did Pand say anything about Forsaken's lack of scumhunting. Pand, response?
Well, it works sort of like this. Votes in the RVS are meaningless, so you respond and move on until someone catches your attention.
Only Forsaken1111 isn't reacting to anything, at all. So I decided, "Let's stick a second vote on him for no reason and see if anyone reacts to that, particularly him."
So I do that, and Forsaken1111 doesn't even acknowledge it's there. He's trying too hard to be nonchalant.
And now Mr.Person and Jim are the only ones who are observing that hey, voting for someone actually does and should have an effect. But they're missing the point.
Forsaken1111 gets however many votes and he just forces himself to go Keep acting like you don't care keep acting like you don't care.
He's now officially guilty of the Trying Too Hard Not To OMGUS Tell because he should have called me out for voting him.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 11:17:12 am
Except it wasn't a random vote. I had exactly 1 random vote, placed onto Ottofar after I read a sentence of his, mostly in hopes that it would successfully end RVS. It did. I kept my vote where it was until I read forsaken1111. I voted him promptly, so that I may have my vote on him, and he would display more scumminess while I collected data thereon. He didn't respond at all to it.Not being serious means you're not trying. At all. But you can be passive aggressive against me as a minor OMGUS all you want, it's still not going to add anything to the conversation so far nor will it be used as a stepping stool for conversation. Anything else you'd like to make yourself look scummy with?
And webadict erects a barrier of mafia jargon to protect himself from mockery.
webadict, since you've displayed the maturity of a child with your death threats, I will now refer to you appropriately.
So listen here, kid. You seem to think that forsaken1111 should die because he didn't take your random vote seriously... but that's exactly the correct response, especially with random votes from you. To do otherwise would elicit accusations of being overly defensive about a random vote, and so on.
So, kid, why are you throwing such a temper tantrum about somebody who responded correctly to a random pressure vote? Either your ego is as fragile as it is large, or you're scum trying to make a big fuss over nothiing.
Which one will it be, kid? You have a large, fragile ego that can shatter from the merest suggestion that it's unearned, or that you are scum?
Additionally, I now suspect Jokerman-EXE and Pandarsenic for the same reasons, although they have the further black marks of bandwagoning.Forsaken: What the hell, mate? Its been said; you can't ignore people voting for you. Its an unwritten rule of Mafia: Play to win. Seeing as para has no jokers, that means you never* want to die. So start defending yourself; if you don't, you are ruining the game for the rest of us.
No, you're wrong. I've been at the end of a webadict random vote before, and I had the misfortune of asking why he had randomvoted me. Not an unreasonable request, right? Cue a day long accusation of how defensive I was, along with at least one scum following his lead. No, forsaken1111 played this one correctly.
No, wait, I mentioned that I was in the process of conversing about said vote, when he replied questioningly about that statement. He was thus wagoned upon and refused to not only defend himself, but also to attack or anything. He continued his passive resistance to the flow of the game and dammed the entire thread up.
You seem to think that I care whether he's concerned about my vote or not. I could care less. I planned on voting him for the rest of the Day once I voted him in the first place. His reaction is something that I'd want, yes, but I'd only use it to further my goal of lynching him.
Where, oh where, did you get the idea that I randomvote willy nilly? I ended the RVS a long time ago, and if you haven't found someone scummy yet, you're doing it wrong.
But, you're right, aren't you? We should merely act cool to being voted after random voting has stopped. Everyone should vote Jim Groovester, because it'll be random, and he'll be cool about it. Right? Isn't that right, Jimmy? *nudge nudge* Now dance, pretty boy.
Ah, but there is a way, in that he thinks I merely random vote, and therefore the question itself is faulty.webadict, since you've displayed the maturity of a child with your death threats, I will now refer to you appropriately.
Jim, goading Webadict isn't exactly a sign of maturity either. In fact, you've been pretty inflamatory and petty yourself.
Moreover, what's the goal in asking him loaded questions, where he can't answer without either insulting himself, or admiting to being scum? Do you hope to force him to ignore the question, and then use that against him?
And thus, the scumhunt charade goes.
I'd like to say Point goes to you, but not for the reason that you're thinking. It was actually a few lines up when you mentioned that voting does get a reaction because MR.PERSON AND JIM GROOVESTER ARE REACTING TO THE VOTE! While forsaken1111 is sitting down, Mr.Person and Jim Groovester have jumped to his aid, defending him while forsaken himself idles, which is the exact opposite point they themselves were trying to argue.If forsaken1111 doesn't care about votes, I'll donate mine.
I'd just like to point out that Pand originally voted Forsaken because Forsaken wasn't responding to votes. And I'd also like to point out that not responding to getting voted is in no way a scum tell. Only afterwards did Pand say anything about Forsaken's lack of scumhunting. Pand, response?
Well, it works sort of like this. Votes in the RVS are meaningless, so you respond and move on until someone catches your attention.
Only Forsaken1111 isn't reacting to anything, at all. So I decided, "Let's stick a second vote on him for no reason and see if anyone reacts to that, particularly him."
So I do that, and Forsaken1111 doesn't even acknowledge it's there. He's trying too hard to be nonchalant.
And now Mr.Person and Jim are the only ones who are observing that hey, voting for someone actually does and should have an effect. But they're missing the point.
Forsaken1111 gets however many votes and he just forces himself to go Keep acting like you don't care keep acting like you don't care.
He's now officially guilty of the Trying Too Hard Not To OMGUS Tell because he should have called me out for voting him.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 21, 2010, 11:28:51 am
Normally I enjoy Meph's Para game. I'm not about to be threatened by some asshat on the internet because he thinks he's special and doesn't like the way I play a forum game.
It's a game, and Web has decided to make it meta and personal. I'd like Meph's take on that, since he is hosting this game.
Web makes everything Meta and personal with everyone. Just don't let it get to you. I've lost count of the number of times web has insulted me, it doesn't mean anything.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 21, 2010, 11:29:25 am
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 11:39:10 am
I can't imagine all three of them being scum. Hmm. Unless Forsaken1111 is an Adv Dopp they just need to have live through the day.It's not about whether the other two are scum. I'm pretty sure it's just Jim being scum. I was just saying you won the argument.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 21, 2010, 11:42:38 am
Criptfeind : Org
Ethereal.Frog : Nuke9.13, forsaken1111, Jim Groovester
forsaken1111 : Jokerman-EXE, Pandarsenic, webadict
Jim Groovester : Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Ottofar : ToonyMan
Solifuge : Ethereal.Frog, Mr. Person, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 11:47:07 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 11:47:45 am
webadict, since you've displayed the maturity of a child with your death threats, I will now refer to you appropriately.
Jim, goading Webadict isn't exactly a sign of maturity either. In fact, you've been pretty inflamatory and petty yourself.
Moreover, what's the goal in asking him loaded questions, where he can't answer without either insulting himself, or admiting to being scum? Do you hope to force him to ignore the question, and then use that against him?
And thus, the scumhunt charade goes.
I suppose you have a point.
Hmph.
But you're right that I'm being petty about it, but I don't really care all that much. It's so hard to resist when it's so easy to turn webadict from mildly abrasive into grating jackass at the drop of a hat. With such control over a person, wouldn't you do the same?
Except it wasn't a random vote. I had exactly 1 random vote, placed onto Ottofar after I read a sentence of his, mostly in hopes that it would successfully end RVS. It did. I kept my vote where it was until I read forsaken1111. I voted him promptly, so that I may have my vote on him, and he would display more scumminess while I collected data thereon. He didn't respond at all to it.
No, wait, I mentioned that I was in the process of conversing about said vote, when he replied questioningly about that statement. He was thus wagoned upon and refused to not only defend himself, but also to attack or anything. He continued his passive resistance to the flow of the game and dammed the entire thread up.
You seem to think that I care whether he's concerned about my vote or not. I could care less. I planned on voting him for the rest of the Day once I voted him in the first place. His reaction is something that I'd want, yes, but I'd only use it to further my goal of lynching him.
Where, oh where, did you get the idea that I randomvote willy nilly? I ended the RVS a long time ago, and if you haven't found someone scummy yet, you're doing it wrong.
But, you're right, aren't you? We should merely act cool to being voted after random voting has stopped. Everyone should vote Jim Groovester, because it'll be random, and he'll be cool about it. Right? Isn't that right, Jimmy? *nudge nudge* Now dance, pretty boy.
If it wasn't a random vote then it was a pressure vote; whatever you call it, it's designed to get a reaction, and I've seen you do it many times before. It's a matter of semantics, which you spend an inordinate amount of time arguing to avoid answering questions.
You seem to suggest that no matter forsaken1111's reaction you were planning on using it to lynch him. If you don't care whether the reaction makes forsaken1111 look like town or scum, then that suggests you're not interested in scumhunting at all and you'd rather pursue lynches.
I find it incredibly difficult to believe that you're town if you don't care how people react to your votes.
But, you're right, aren't you? We should merely act cool to being voted after random voting has stopped.
If the vote comes from you, absolutely. It doesn't matter whether you're town or scum, giving you any reaction outside of the one you arbitrarily deem correct is almost always counterproductive.
Unvote, Solifuge
Hmm, okay. You're going to have to explain that one.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 11:54:21 am
2. Solifuge and Frog have both been acting scummy
3. I don't care which of them die, because they're both scummy
4. I think its slightly more likely that frog is simply a newbie acting scummy by mistake
5. Overreaction:
Just to be clear, Mr. Person, I believe I'm done trying to explain anything to you, so don't expect me to address anything unless you've suddenly decided to actually read what people say, or to present anything new to the table. You've kicked reason to the curb ...and then you curb-stomped it.
And now its dead. Good job.
6. Because
Post by: Solifuge on May 21, 2010, 11:57:15 am
Unvote, Solifuge
Hmm, okay. You're going to have to explain that one.
Voting for me is the only vote he could place that has a large enough basis to exceed the vote on him... thus, it's the only way to save himself.
Yup, self-preservationism, passivity in the face of lynch, and lack of substantial contribution. Forsaken1111 it is.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 11:58:26 am
You seem to suggest that no matter forsaken1111's reaction you were planning on using it to lynch him. If you don't care whether the reaction makes forsaken1111 look like town or scum, then that suggests you're not interested in scumhunting at all and you'd rather pursue lynches.No, I'm interested in lynching scum. It was a matter of voting who I deemed the most likely to be scum at the moment. His reaction wasn't necessary. His lack of reaction, however, only lends credit to him being scum.
Unvote, SolifugeNah, we're not lynching Solifuge today. But, nice try stacking Solifuge one vote higher than you. It just makes you look scummier that you're saving yourself while not caring about who you lynch nor having any plan to participate in the future.
Last ditch effort to save him is a fail.Unvote, Solifuge
Hmm, okay. You're going to have to explain that one.
1. I don't want a tieI lol'd. Here I thought I was clearly being more scummy than those two for the simple fact of what I was doing to you, but you still won't vote me and instead switch! You can easily extend the Day, yet go for the simpler option: Lynch Solifuge. Seriously? You couldn't be bothered to type out 6 letters? You can have a lot more time to build your argument on Solifuge using time, but lynching him with that argument? You might as well just take a shovel and bury yourself: You're already doing all the work.
2. Solifuge and Frog have both been acting scummy
3. I don't care which of them die, because they're both scummy
4. I think its slightly more likely that frog is simply a newbie acting scummy by mistake
5. Overreaction:Just to be clear, Mr. Person, I believe I'm done trying to explain anything to you, so don't expect me to address anything unless you've suddenly decided to actually read what people say, or to present anything new to the table. You've kicked reason to the curb ...and then you curb-stomped it.
And now its dead. Good job.
6. Because
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 11:59:39 am
If you guys really want me dead that's fine. You'll lose a townie and the game will progress as normal.
Unlike webby there I don't take this game personally, or go batshit nuts when people don't play the way I want.
Post by: Solifuge on May 21, 2010, 12:06:44 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 12:08:10 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 12:19:22 pm
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 12:26:12 pm
Soli, you and frog have both acted scummy. I am voting you for that and no other reason.As are people voting for you. But, at least if you're going to die, bring up something that will help Town if you're Town, or hurt Town if you're scum.
Oh, sure, let's just ignore scummier people so that we can give our two cents on the same forsaken1111-webadict pissing match that happens every single Paranormal game.Uh huh, and they would be whom exactly?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 12:29:00 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 21, 2010, 12:35:07 pm
Still, I wager Mr. Frog is suffering more from the N00bonic Plague, and would rather give him Day 1 to shape up, or shuff off this mortal coil.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 12:45:11 pm
He's the scummiest player right now, and I don't like that you and others are ignoring Ethereal.Frog to go lynch somebody for a pissing match he has with webadict every game.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 12:49:22 pm
Well, since you asked, I would much prefer an Ethereal.Frog lynch. After him, Toaster. Those are my two top suspicions.Resorting to newbs, huh?
Post by: NUKE9.13 on May 21, 2010, 12:50:34 pm
Forsaken1111
Your arguments are weak:
1:Why not?
2:What scummy behaviour? Are you referring to Mr.Person's suspicions? Why did you not mention you agree with them before?
3:You consider them both equally scummy? Seriously? You think that a weird RVS strategy is as scummy as admitting to blatant bandwaggoning, joking about how 'new' you are, and 'giving up'?
4:Admittedly; but does the possibility really negate enough of his scumminess that you consider Solifuge a better target? Also, if you didn't want a tie, and thought solifuge was more scummy, why didn't you switch your vote earlier?
5:Um. What? That is what I would call a 'vivid metaphor'.
6:Because.... You don't want to die, so you are attempting a last-ditch, badly argued, irrational vote switch to save your freaky dopp skin? Actually, that is a pretty good reason. To lynch you.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 12:51:30 pm
Well, since you asked, I would much prefer an Ethereal.Frog lynch. After him, Toaster. Those are my two top suspicions.Resorting to newbs, huh?
Nope.
They are suspicious. They should be lynched. Today, preferably.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 01:19:34 pm
Well, I know who's gunna be gunned down togun.Well, since you asked, I would much prefer an Ethereal.Frog lynch. After him, Toaster. Those are my two top suspicions.Resorting to newbs, huh?
Nope.
They are suspicious. They should be lynched. Today, preferably.
Hint: you.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on May 21, 2010, 01:46:44 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 01:57:44 pm
Well, I know who's gunna be gunned down togun.
Hint: you.
Are you subtly suggesting that the vigilante should target me tonight?
It appears we have mutual feelings towards each other.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 21, 2010, 01:58:57 pm
Ottofar,
Where are you little buddy? Ever since last time I posted I don't recall you posting once.
The topic of Forsaken,
The "meh" attitude to being voted on is not an avenue I would go by, it's essentially the polar opposite of an over reaction (like Ottofar). It makes you seem like you don't care for the game and not trying to do a town tell because you aren't freaking out or something.
Webadict,
Death threats are oh so fun oh ho ho ho NO.
My vote remains on Ottofar until he reacts to the situation we have presently.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 02:44:37 pm
What?! When did I subtly imply the Vigilante should shoot you so you'll be dead from being shot by the VIGILANTE, resulting in your death. From being shot. By the Vigilante.Well, I know who's gunna be gunned down togun.
Hint: you.
Are you subtly suggesting that the vigilante should target me tonight?
It appears we have mutual feelings towards each other.
I don't believe I ever subtly implied that the Vigilante should SHOOT Jim anywhere in that. Seems you just really want to be shot for some reason. Perhaps by a vigilant fellow wielding a gun. JIM.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 03:02:04 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on May 21, 2010, 03:06:04 pm
Criptfeind : Org
Ethereal.Frog : Jim Groovester
forsaken1111 : Nuke9.13, Jokerman-EXE, Pandarsenic, Solifuge, webadict
Jim Groovester : Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Ottofar : ToonyMan
Solifuge : Ethereal.Frog, forsaken1111, Mr. Person, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today
Post by: Mr.Person on May 21, 2010, 03:40:11 pm
That may be true, but it doesn't help find scum. Like Forsaken.
You seemed to have no interest in Solifuge before, yet suddenly you think he's uberscum? And it's not like Solifuge DID anything to appear scummy, you only brought up old-ish points to make your case. So if you really thought Solifuge was scum, you'd have made a case on him already. I also think you lack any real grasp of what made Solifuge scummy. Your point is VERY nondescript, and you haven't mentioned at all why you think Ethereal.Frog is scum. You're barely trying. So I highly doubt you seriously think Solifuge or EF is scum. And since only scum can't seriously think another player is scum, you must be scum. I would say go die in a fire, but I think Webadict covered that to death, so instead I'll just say 'Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out!"
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 03:46:43 pm
Why should I care? It was a random vote with no reason given. Apparently not caring is scummy.
It doesn't matter. Have fun. I'll catch the next game.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 21, 2010, 03:48:36 pm
It's like you're playing both side of the field at once. The fact that the defense comes later is odd. And it's not a paradigm shift until I vote forsaken1111, where YOU ask for reasons. That's not something you should be worrying about. No that's something forsaken and I are discussing. Then, I accuse Jim Groovester, and you decide, "Hey, you know what? I have no one else to vote, so I'll vote you, WUBA."
Let me show you my thought process here.
1: You vote Otto with no explanation. I say something quick in a questioning way but really chock it up to RVT.
2: You vote Forsaken with no explanation. This one I take objection too and ask your reasoning.
3: You call Jim scum with no explanation. Now I vote you because you still have not explained Forsaken and so you go on to... pointedly ignore me. I try to get you to talk but you never do. You only recently explained somewhat Forsaken but Jim you never did really. Not only that but when talking to me you lie and twist my words around. I have no reason to unvote you so I have not.
Maybe if you answer a question once in a while I would unvote you.
Lets start with why did you say Jim was scum. Not what he is doing now but back when you first accused him.
I truly don't understand why answering is so hard for you.
Also Mod? It seems in the last two vote counts my vote on web was not there, is that a mistake?
Post by: Mephansteras on May 21, 2010, 03:52:13 pm
The Corrected Whiteboard
Criptfeind : Org
Ethereal.Frog : Jim Groovester
forsaken1111 : Nuke9.13, Jokerman-EXE, Pandarsenic, Solifuge, webadict
Jim Groovester : Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Ottofar : ToonyMan
Solifuge : Ethereal.Frog, forsaken1111, Mr. Person, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
webadict : Criptfeind
General rule: Paranormal has only one condition that effects who's voting who, and that's the Mind Control Ray. If you haven't been mind controlled, then I've simply missed something or added a vote to the wrong line in my spreadsheet.
Post by: Mr.Person on May 21, 2010, 03:55:28 pm
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 04:06:34 pm
I don't recall you ever stating why I was scum. How will you convince the vigilante to kill me without reasons? He won't follow your suggestion because you're personable.I know! How indeed...
Oh well. I guess I'll just see what happens.
Because Jim Groovester had the secondmost number of scumpoints. He nearly scored a scum touchdown.It's like you're playing both side of the field at once. The fact that the defense comes later is odd. And it's not a paradigm shift until I vote forsaken1111, where YOU ask for reasons. That's not something you should be worrying about. No that's something forsaken and I are discussing. Then, I accuse Jim Groovester, and you decide, "Hey, you know what? I have no one else to vote, so I'll vote you, WUBA."
Let me show you my thought process here.
1: You vote Otto with no explanation. I say something quick in a questioning way but really chock it up to RVT.
2: You vote Forsaken with no explanation. This one I take objection too and ask your reasoning.
3: You call Jim scum with no explanation. Now I vote you because you still have not explained Forsaken and so you go on to... pointedly ignore me. I try to get you to talk but you never do. You only recently explained somewhat Forsaken but Jim you never did really. Not only that but when talking to me you lie and twist my words around. I have no reason to unvote you so I have not.
Maybe if you answer a question once in a while I would unvote you.
Lets start with why did you say Jim was scum. Not what he is doing now but back when you first accused him.
I truly don't understand why answering is so hard for you.
Also Mod? It seems in the last two vote counts my vote on web was not there, is that a mistake?
Post by: Mephansteras on May 21, 2010, 04:08:05 pm
The Whiteboard
Criptfeind : Org
Ethereal.Frog : Jim Groovester
forsaken1111 : Nuke9.13, Jokerman-EXE, Mr. Person, Pandarsenic, Solifuge, webadict
Jim Groovester : Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Ottofar : ToonyMan
Solifuge : Ethereal.Frog, forsaken1111, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
webadict : Criptfeind
Post by: Leafsnail on May 21, 2010, 04:08:53 pm
Webadict has created a lot of pointless noise, and as far as I can tell he led the town away from someone scummy (Toaster) towards someone whose play he didn't like (forsaken). He has no case at all against forsaken... it's a policy lynch, and not even a good policy lynch.
The worst part is that webadict is obviously town. At this rate, he's pretty much gonna wreck the game for us.
Post by: Ottofar on May 21, 2010, 04:10:39 pm
Webadict, on the other hand, seems to be spreading WIFOM, (assuming I understood the term correctly) which I find scummy. Besides, he must be asked to answer questions multiple times, and he still might not answer.
Solifuge's opening makes me still vote for him.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 04:11:13 pm
Since my vote won't have an effect on the lynch, I can freely vote webadict for being evasive.
Vote stays on you until you answer. Out with it, punk.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 04:19:46 pm
Unvote.By that logic, I can freely avoid answering your question, since it won't have an effect on the lynch, right? Stupidest answer ever, since you're not trying to lead a lynch on Ethereal nor find evidence of his scummitude, but you have plenty of time to semi-random vote me to find why I find you to be scummy.
Since my vote won't have an effect on the lynch, I can freely vote webadict for being evasive.
Vote stays on you until you answer. Out with it, punk.
And it wasn't even until you were having a problem with being shot in the face tonight that you started going after me, presumably because you believe I have the power to do that to you, in which case you'd WANT me gone so that I could not do that to you. Right?
And instead of directing the attention of said Vigilante to a scummy player (The one you were previously voting, perhaps), you have instead resorted to pointing me out, for no reason other than I said you were scum (I didn't even vote you, so why should you care? If I were leading a lynch on you, it'd be worse, right?)
So, what about that?
Post by: Ottofar on May 21, 2010, 04:21:46 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 04:23:14 pm
So, what about that?
What about what? You still haven't answered the question.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 04:25:07 pm
I answered a question. You just have to switch articles and it works.So, what about that?
What about what? You still haven't answered the question.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on May 21, 2010, 04:27:28 pm
I'm beyond caring at this point. You're all taken in by web when all I did was not care about his random vote.This is funny. Every sentence of this quote is made of wrong.
Why should I care? It was a random vote with no reason given. Apparently not caring is scummy.
It doesn't matter. Have fun. I'll catch the next game.
"I'm beyond caring at this point."-If, at any point in a mafia game, you are beyond caring, you are screwing it up for the rest of the players. We don't care if you are having a few boo-boos. That is not an excuse to ruin the game for us.
"You're all taken in by web when all I did was not care about his random vote."-Actually, only pandar cared slightly about your self-admitted lack of response. The rest of us care that you refused to respond to pandar's vote, and all that followed.
"Why should I care?"-Because you joined the game, inherently agreeing to play it. And caring is part of playing.
"It was a random vote with no reason given."-It was not random, it was normal 'Wuba' playstyle. He has his reasons, which he doesn't give, to get more telling responses. Or soemthing. It wasn't random, anyway, and there was no reason on purpose- it does not detract from its validity.
"Apparently not caring is scummy."-Leave out the sarcasm and this line is 100% correct.
"It doesn't matter."-It does matter. Your refusal to defend yourself has lowered your team's chances, and made the game generally less enjoyable.
"Have fun"-Says he, having just actively detracted from our capability to do so.
"I'll catch the next game."-You should not be allowed to join future mafia games with this behaviour.
[/meta]
Webadict is acting like webadict. That is, infuriatingly cryptic. I cannot see it as particularly scum webadict; but one never knows.
With the forsaken situation, ethereal frog has gotten a second chance to explain himself, and I would like him to do so.
...the rest of you, carry on.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 04:30:59 pm
What about what? You still haven't answered the question.I answered a question. You just have to switch articles and it works.
And how about the one I asked you?
The same one criptfeind asked you.
With the forsaken situation, ethereal frog has gotten a second chance to explain himself, and I would like him to do so.
Hey, I've got an idea.
Ethereal.Frog, get your sorry ass in here and remind everybody why they should be lynching you. Comment!
Post by: Leafsnail on May 21, 2010, 04:32:14 pm
And he's apparently gonna shoot Jim tonight, someone who looks equally town.
Quite frankly, I'm beginning to lose hope for this game.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 21, 2010, 04:35:28 pm
2: Why is nuke putting (Somewhat stealthily) somewhere in almost every post of his that I should not push web for being unhelpful?
Webadict is town. That much is pretty much assured.
Why?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 21, 2010, 04:40:56 pm
I don't think forsaken is scum. If he doesn't react on questionless RV by insulting webadict, he must be scum, is pretty bad reasoning, but he should've reacted after the third vote.
Webadict, on the other hand, seems to be spreading WIFOM, (assuming I understood the term correctly) which I find scummy. Besides, he must be asked to answer questions multiple times, and he still might not answer.
Solifuge's opening makes me still vote for him.
Alright. Unvote.
Vote Forsaken, I'm hating what you're doing right now. Grit those teeth.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 21, 2010, 04:48:08 pm
This is town webadict. Most definately.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 05:04:03 pm
Read him.That's not gonna explain it to them, Leafsnail! They have to know what it's like when I'm scum in order to know what it's like when I'm town.
This is town webadict. Most definately.
Actually, criptfeind asked about 3 questions. Which one in particular?What about what? You still haven't answered the question.I answered a question. You just have to switch articles and it works.
And how about the one I asked you?
The same one criptfeind asked you.With the forsaken situation, ethereal frog has gotten a second chance to explain himself, and I would like him to do so.
Hey, I've got an idea.
Ethereal.Frog, get your sorry ass in here and remind everybody why they should be lynching you. Comment!
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 21, 2010, 05:32:04 pm
Paid for by donations from viewers like you!
1: Forsaken1111 is so scummy it hurts. We've established this and can move on
2: Webadict's alignment is not obvious but at this point it doesn't matter because we're lynching scum and can deal with him tomorrow
3: Jim is being scummy in that he only is hunting nublets and refuses acknowledge Forsaken1111's scuminess. In addition, he attacked Webadict for attacking Forsaken1111.
4: Ottofar did that same thing with an FoS but not an actual vote. Not sure what's going on with him entirely though.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 06:13:50 pm
Please note that these two were voting for you before you assumed they were scum.Well, since you asked, I would much prefer an Ethereal.Frog lynch. After him, Toaster. Those are my two top suspicions.Resorting to newbs, huh?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2010, 07:05:55 pm
Please note that these two were voting for you before you assumed they were scum.Well, since you asked, I would much prefer an Ethereal.Frog lynch. After him, Toaster. Those are my two top suspicions.Resorting to newbs, huh?
Right.
You see, kid, I found them suspicious not because they were voting me, but for other reasons. I might remind you that everybody found Ethereal.Frog suspicious, and the same bandwagoners like Solifuge and NUKE9.13 who hopped on that wagon are now on forsaken1111. You found Toaster suspicious at the same time I did, as did Leafsnail, so unless your FoS meant nothing, you've got nothing on this point.
Now, you see, I can tolerate your evasion, your abrasiveness, your smugness, and all your other many fine qualities that make you an absolute joy to play with, but the thing I won't tolerate is any attempt to misrepresent my motives in a deliberately false way. When you try to paint me as some kind of petty OMGUSer, I know something's up.
All I wanted was why you said I was scum. Everybody else would've responded with a short list of why, and then we could've had a polite discussion about it. But nope. Not you. You're special. So to get information out of you, it required special treatment. In other words, a vote, to provide a bit of pressure. Still though, stubborn to the end, I didn't get what I wanted. But I got something better in return: a slip-up.
So webadict, if you're town, why are you accusing me of only OMGUSing people, despite that other people found commonality in the same suspicions I did?
Pandarsenic presents Pandarsenic's True Facts!
Paid for by donations from viewers like you!
1: Forsaken1111 is so scummy it hurts. We've established this and can move on
2: Webadict's alignment is not obvious but at this point it doesn't matter because we're lynching scum and can deal with him tomorrow
3: Jim is being scummy in that he only is hunting nublets and refuses acknowledge Forsaken1111's scuminess. In addition, he attacked Webadict for attacking Forsaken1111.
4: Ottofar did that same thing with an FoS but not an actual vote. Not sure what's going on with him entirely though.
I would've hopped on the bandwagon already if I were scum. No point standing out when there are already all these wonderful bandwagoners to hide behind. And it saves me the trouble of dealing with webadict, too, who for all the scumhunting he claims he's doing isn't looking where he needs to.
Webadict is town. That much is pretty much assured.
And he's apparently gonna shoot Jim tonight, someone who looks equally town.
Quite frankly, I'm beginning to lose hope for this game.
You and me both, pal. I almost regret insulting webadict, as it turned him from his usual mildly abrasive self into petty-revenge-seeking-town-loss mode.
Post by: webadict on May 21, 2010, 07:12:27 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on May 21, 2010, 07:25:48 pm
Criptfeind : Org
forsaken1111 : Nuke9.13, Jokerman-EXE, Mr. Person, Pandarsenic, Solifuge, ToonyMan, webadict
Jim Groovester : Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Solifuge : Ethereal.Frog, forsaken1111, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
webadict : Criptfeind, Jim Groovester
Forsaken1111 looks up forlornly as his name is chanted. "Well, this sucks" he says as ToonyMan pulls out a gun and points it at him.
"Yeah, well, someone has to go down. Today it's you!"
The gunshot rings out and Forsaken1111 collapses to the ground with a bullet in his heart.
You watch the body for a bit, but it stays human. You then tromp off to go investigate his room. Turns out he was a Psychic Wardens you'd recruited to help paralyze the government. Pity, his powers would have been quite useful in the days to come.
As the sun sets you head off to your rooms.
Day 1 is over. Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 24, 2010, 02:37:49 pm
The sounds of gunfire rock the night, and few of you get any sleep.
The next morning you gather in the main hall, but four of you are missing. Criptfeind, NUKE9.13, Jim Groovester, and Mr.Person all fail to join you.
The emotions of the group that heads out to investigate is mixed. Puzzlement, worry, elation, and smug satisfaction, all concealed beneath stony faces.
First you head out to Criptfeind's house. As you approach you find NUKE's body lying behind a tractor. Well, it was NUKE, anyway. He was obviously replaced by a Doppelganger at some point. The bullet wounds to the chest give you a pretty obvious cause of death.
Checking out Criptfeind's house you find his charred body in one of the rooms facing out towards the road. A somewhat melted assault rifle sits beside him, and there are strange silvery metallic shards embedded in the wall. Not like any grenade you've ever seen before, though it seems similar. In any case, it's obvious he was protecting himself from NUKE and whoever else was outside. Not surprising, given that he was a War Vet. At least he took down one of the monsters before he died.
You then check out Nuke's house, to see what you can discover about him. Looking through his journal you find that he had once been an army scout, trained to act as an Observant Guard. But who was he guarding? And what happened to them? Perhaps you'll find out when more clues become available.
Jim's house is next. There you find the door unlocked, and Jim's bullet-ridden body lying in a pool of blood on the ground. He must have been surprised, since there is no sign of a struggle. Looking through his desk you find that he was working as a Detective for the militia. No information from any discoveries he may have made last night, however.
Finally you head off to Mr.Person's house. The only sign there is a bloody handprint on the door, and a strange sign scratched into the wood. Inside you find weapons, medical supplies, and various log books. Seems he was preparing to act as a Guardian for the forces of the Militia. Pity, you have a feeling you'll need those skills more then ever in the days to come.
With nothing more to be gained by looking around you head back to the main hall. Three more doppelgangers remain, and as many questions created last night as there were answered.
Day 2 has started and will go until ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2010, 02:44:36 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 24, 2010, 02:47:37 pm
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2010, 02:55:12 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on May 24, 2010, 02:57:27 pm
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2010, 03:02:40 pm
My Meh post is cha-ching.Nice job.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 24, 2010, 03:28:46 pm
Org. Be useful. Who is scum and why? Give a nice solid reason for it. Right now you're at the top of my scum list because you're being even quieter than normal.
Jokerman-EXE. Right here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1271154#msg1271154), you were the third vote on forsaken for being passive about Webadict's vote. Why exactly should he have pushed back at it? He's completely correct, it was basically a random vote with little weight behind it. So why did you join the bandwagon?
Or you could participate in the game you joined?
You know Pandarsenic of the infinite midterms, this just blows my mind. You voted Forsaken for not responding to webadict's votes (which is actually not a bad idea). You're pushing at Forsaken to participate when you've been doing almost anything but. Basically all of your content this game are one line remarks with only vague baring to the game. So, pot, meet kettle.
And then this:
Only Forsaken1111 isn't reacting to anything, at all. So I decided, "Let's stick a second vote on him for no reason and see if anyone reacts to that, particularly him."
So I do that, and Forsaken1111 doesn't even acknowledge it's there. He's trying too hard to be nonchalant.
Why should he awknoledge that it's there? You said 'If forsaken1111 doesn't care about votes, I'll donate mine.' You didn't even say that he was scum. And he was responding to the overall votes in the same vein. Of course it would have been better if he was scum hunting, I'll admit, but I still fail to see the problem with his reaction.
...Well, I know who's gunna be gunned down togun.
Hint: you.
And then Jim get's shot by the Vig. Webadict, if you're not the Vig, I hope you're happy because someone's taking your advice again. Last time, you managed to get 3-4 of the town killed even after getting yourself killed before day 2. And you managed to get comments from ThreeToe and Mephansteras for your attitude. Good job.
Org, Leafsnail, Ethereal.Frog, Ottofar, and Toaster, you're all being way too quiet. Come in and say something. Preferably more than a line or three, it's hard to read something that short.
About this morning's mess, I'd say, judging from the flavor:
- NUKE was killed by Criptfeind being a War Vet (killed before the bomb because of order of night actions?)
- Criptfeind was killed by an Exterminator with a plasma bomb
- Jim was killed by a Vig
- Mr.Person was guarding the dopp's target
There are 11 of us left. Three dopps and at least one alien. Not too bad yet.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on May 24, 2010, 03:31:26 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 24, 2010, 03:31:51 pm
Post by: Org on May 24, 2010, 03:34:10 pm
Anyways...
As you have stated, it looks like there is an exterminator. Most likely, anyway.
It is only one person, and I have my feeling of this is true.
Webadict.
Why go for the alien? As he can be just as dangerous, and team up with dopps. Might as well take down a potential ally.
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2010, 03:39:27 pm
Have I not stated that my problems concur with that of Pandars?Are you saying I'm an Alien?
Anyways...
As you have stated, it looks like there is an exterminator. Most likely, anyway.
It is only one person, and I have my feeling of this is true.
Webadict.
Why go for the alien? As he can be just as dangerous, and team up with dopps. Might as well take down a potential ally.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 24, 2010, 03:46:41 pm
That's actually enough for me for the time being as long as you keep posting. Still think you're trying to hide, but that was one of the better responses I've seen from you. unvote
So Jokerman-EXE. You were the third vote on the forsaken-wagon, a most suspicious place to be and for not terribly much reason. Turns out he was town though. So who do you think is scum now that you've been proven wrong?
If Mr.Person was protecting the Dopps target, then Criptfeind would not only survive the attack, he'd survive the bomb as well. Don't listen to listy McJanus.
What?
It looks like Criptfiend was plasma bombed, which cannot be protected against (check the rules if you don't believe me). NUKE9.13 was guarding him (probably to look more town), but the guarding triggered the War Vet kill. Guards go before night kills and War Vet kills on the other's action so that's why NUKE wasn't plasma bombed.
Looking back, Guardian isn't killed instead of the target, so I'd guess that Mr.Person was the Dopps actual target. I was wrong about that part, but only slightly.
Do you have another explanation for the 4 deaths?
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2010, 03:49:24 pm
Unless there's some other way to account for 4 kills (one the War Vet and the Dopps still leaves two)...... Crap! Outdone by the rules again!
That's actually enough for me for the time being as long as you keep posting. Still think you're trying to hide, but that was one of the better responses I've seen from you. unvote
So Jokerman-EXE. You were the third vote on the forsaken-wagon, a most suspicious place to be and for not terribly much reason. Turns out he was town though. So who do you think is scum now that you've been proven wrong?If Mr.Person was protecting the Dopps target, then Criptfeind would not only survive the attack, he'd survive the bomb as well. Don't listen to listy McJanus.
What?
It looks like Criptfiend was plasma bombed, which cannot be protected against (check the rules if you don't believe me). NUKE9.13 was guarding him (probably to look more town), but the guarding triggered the War Vet kill. Guards go before night kills and War Vet kills on the other's action so that's why NUKE wasn't plasma bombed.
Looking back, Guardian isn't killed instead of the target, so I'd guess that Mr.Person was the Dopps actual target. I was wrong about that part, but only slightly.
Do you have another explanation for the 4 deaths?
My bad.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 24, 2010, 04:02:29 pm
Flavour makes it look like Exty plasmabombed last night. Plasmabombing a war vet is kinda funny though, heh.
This seems like a good time to do those coloured votecounts I've seen on mafiascum so much.
Green for confirmed town. Red for confirmed scum. Blue for likely town.
Quote
Criptfeind : Org
forsaken1111 : Nuke9.13, Jokerman-EXE, Mr. Person, Pandarsenic, Solifuge, ToonyMan, webadict
Jim Groovester : Toaster
Org : JanusTwoFace
Solifuge : Ethereal.Frog, forsaken1111, Ottofar
Toaster : Leafsnail
webadict : Criptfeind, Jim Groovester
It would seem that scum led the initial charge on forsaken... interesting. Other than that, this doesn't say too much, other than scum really don't like voting webadict :P.
Hey, Org. Why vote webadict? As much as you may dislike him, he's pretty much confirmed town.
On the other hand, ToonyMan is scum. Look at the way he joined the forsaken wagon. Now look at any game where he was town.
QED.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 24, 2010, 04:23:30 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 04:57:12 pm
Leafsnail, remind us why you were voting Toaster?
My intuition has something against Toaster but I'm too tired to slog through a reread right on five hours of sleep.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 24, 2010, 05:00:10 pm
Leafsnail, remind us why you were voting Toaster?He was being evasive, and looked scummy. Looking back on it though, he doesn't look so bad... and I'd expect him to bandwagon, to be honest.
My intuition has something against Toaster but I'm too tired to slog through a reread right on five hours of sleep.
Post by: Org on May 24, 2010, 05:01:05 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 05:02:51 pm
This:
I hate when people don't care about dying.
and
Forsaken got what he earned.
His passivity seemed very scummy to me. I've seen new players that are scum react exactly like that when they're getting voted, so it immediately made me think that he was trying to either play to cool - too cool - or he was scum and didn't know how to react in that situation. Now that he flipped town, though...
Webadict. You made some [strike]extremely subtle[/strike] overtures about Vigkilling Jim yesterday. You also seem kind of defensive, though I might be reading into it too much. What do you make of the kill?
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 24, 2010, 05:08:23 pm
Hey, Org. Why vote webadict? As much as you may dislike him, he's pretty much confirmed town.
Why is webadict confirmed town?
@JTF:
This:I hate when people don't care about dying.
andForsaken got what he earned.
His passivity seemed very scummy to me. I've seen new players that are scum react exactly like that when they're getting voted, so it immediately made me think that he was trying to either play to cool - too cool - or he was scum and didn't know how to react in that situation. Now that he flipped town, though...
Webadict. You made some [strike]extremely subtle[/strike] overtures about Vigkilling Jim yesterday. You also seem kind of defensive, though I might be reading into it too much. What do you make of the kill?
Forsaken's been lynched for that 2 or 3 games now. It's not a scum tell on him. I've defended him for it in two games but I wasn't around this time. And third votes are still suspicious. I'll look later to see if someone else is more suspicious than you.
Just for reference,
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 05:10:31 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 24, 2010, 05:18:00 pm
It's not like he claimed a vigkill on the guy who got vigkilled while the only other role that can vigkill did something else. Oh no.Hey, Org. Why vote webadict? As much as you may dislike him, he's pretty much confirmed town.
Why is webadict confirmed town?
In any case, he's obvtown, and people like Jokerman-EXE who are voting him should stop doing so immediately.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 24, 2010, 05:25:15 pm
Jokerman-EXE : JanusTwoFace, Pandarsenic
Leafsnail : ToonyMan
ToonyMan : Leafsnail
webadict : Jokerman-EXE, Org
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 24, 2010, 06:06:47 pm
It's not like he claimed a vigkill on the guy who got vigkilled while the only other role that can vigkill did something else. Oh no.Hey, Org. Why vote webadict? As much as you may dislike him, he's pretty much confirmed town.
Why is webadict confirmed town?
In any case, he's obvtown, and people like Jokerman-EXE who are voting him should stop doing so immediately.
He does that almost every game. Last game in fact. Doesn't mean he's actually the Vig, although it does make it more likely. Just that there is a Vig that listened to him. For now, I unfortunately agree with you that webadict is more likely town than scum, but it's something to remember come end game.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 06:09:16 pm
How.A pretty vanilla-flavored post as far as posts go but it does bring up a good question for Leafsnail. Please remind us? You might have something worth following up on, yes?
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 06:26:53 pm
As for the rest of you, I'm asking WUBA a question, and there's plenty of time for him to answer and my vote to move. So chill the fuck out. I think Org's the only one not jumping the gun to try and accuse me to cover himself, and that's because Org's...well, Org.
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2010, 06:48:28 pm
@JTF:It's a kill. Big whoop. I kinda wish it had hit scum.
This:I hate when people don't care about dying.
andForsaken got what he earned.
His passivity seemed very scummy to me. I've seen new players that are scum react exactly like that when they're getting voted, so it immediately made me think that he was trying to either play to cool - too cool - or he was scum and didn't know how to react in that situation. Now that he flipped town, though...
Webadict. You made some [strike]extremely subtle[/strike] overtures about Vigkilling Jim yesterday. You also seem kind of defensive, though I might be reading into it too much. What do you make of the kill?
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 07:01:33 pm
Webadict. You made some [strike]extremely subtle[/strike] overtures about Vigkilling Jim yesterday. You also seem kind of defensive, though I might be reading into it too much. What do you make of the kill?
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 07:59:52 pm
You're voting me for asking a question with applied pressure? I don't buy it, Pandarsenic. You're being laconic and not hunting at all.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 08:31:16 pm
Post by: Org on May 24, 2010, 08:33:47 pm
Pandar, what are you even voting me for?Sorry I am actually trying to get someone anti-town, I'll try to do better next time.
As for the rest of you, I'm asking WUBA a question, and there's plenty of time for him to answer and my vote to move. So chill the fuck out. I think Org's the only one not jumping the gun to try and accuse me to cover himself, and that's because Org's...well, Org.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 09:00:48 pm
Are you even reading my posts anymore?
As I said, his apparent defensiveness might just be me. You, on the other hand, are reacting far too violently. What's your deal? Give me your scumlist, what you make of the kill, and why you're acting so off-kilter in terms of meta.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 09:02:23 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 24, 2010, 09:02:36 pm
Bah.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 09:11:03 pm
Your questions, in order: You, the kill should've been you instead of Jim, and mu. The only meta off-kilter is die scum.
Post by: Toaster on May 24, 2010, 09:13:25 pm
First up, I think Ethereal Frog has quit playing. Nuke may have been trying to bus him on his first post, but I still read clueless newbie on Frog.
I'm starting to suspect Pandar. He was awfully quiet day one, and hasn't brought much to the table day two. He gave forsaken a vote pretty lightly.
Pandarsenic presents Pandarsenic's True Facts!
Paid for by donations from viewers like you!
1: Forsaken1111 is so scummy it hurts. We've established this and can move on
2: Webadict's alignment is not obvious but at this point it doesn't matter because we're lynching scum and can deal with him tomorrow
3: Jim is being scummy in that he only is hunting nublets and refuses acknowledge Forsaken1111's scuminess. In addition, he attacked Webadict for attacking Forsaken1111.
4: Ottofar did that same thing with an FoS but not an actual vote. Not sure what's going on with him entirely though.
Here, he's calling scum on confirmed town, and questionable on very likely town. That's not scum alone, but it's looking like he's trying to set up mislynches.
REPLY WARNING EDIT- Now that's more like it. Consider yourself unfingered.
Then I read the thread again, and saw Toonyman. Day one he's poking around, never aggressive. Day 2, he comes in and posts... but what? He votes Leafsnail without a reason, just asking for his suspicions. Toony, why are you voting Leafsnail? Why are you being so passive? Last time you did this, you had a good reason- staying out of the light so you could kill everyone. I'm not calling you exterminator, but I'm calling you out.
I am unhappy with my role though, I feel that it is to complicated for me.Dopps fell for this one hook, line, and sinker. Well played, cript.
I'd like to see more out of Ottofar.
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2010, 09:18:51 pm
MMMMMGGGGGRRRRR.My bad. If you know what I mean.
Bah.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 10:04:48 pm
You're either rolefishing or trying to get him to name you a probable vig to eliminate.
Your questions, in order: You, the kill should've been you instead of Jim, and mu. The only meta off-kilter is die scum.
This isn't 27 and you're not Joe. You can't convince me by using anger and lots of passion without any kind of backing. Seriously, you're not even trying to convince anyone.
My vote stays. You're painfully scummy.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 24, 2010, 10:06:01 pm
I'm trying to piece together what happened last night.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 10:11:51 pm
You're either rolefishing or trying to get him to name you a probable vig to eliminate.
Your questions, in order: You, the kill should've been you instead of Jim, and mu. The only meta off-kilter is die scum.
This isn't 27 and you're not Joe. You can't convince me by using anger and lots of passion without any kind of backing. Seriously, you're not even trying to convince anyone.
My vote stays. You're painfully scummy.
Highlighted is why you're such scum and the part where you don't even acknowledge it because I'm so damn right.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 10:15:35 pm
1. I'm not rolefishing or whatever the hell else you're accusing me of. I'm asking him questions to hear what he has to say. If I'm unreasonable for seeking a connection between WUBA and a Vig kill after what happened yesterday, then this game is topsy-fucking-turvy to begin with.
2. Oh wait, there's not second point because you're not actually saying anything other than DERP UR SCUM DERP.
My only wish at this point is that someone will look at this and tell me that I'm not going crazy, you really are being this dense.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 10:18:09 pm
Webadict. You made some [strike]extremely subtle[/strike] overtures about Vigkilling Jim yesterday. You also seem kind of defensive, though I might be reading into it too much. What do you make of the kill?
Sentence by sentence:
"You seem to have vig-related knowledge."
"I should act like I'm genuinely suspicious of you first, though."
"Are you the vig or who is a likely candidate for the vig?"
Post by: ToonyMan on May 24, 2010, 10:19:52 pm
Jim was killed by a vig.
Mr.Person was killed by something, it just says he disappeared.
Now Leafsnail, can you give a better explanation than a "look it up yourself haha"?
And Jokerman, you're being my #2 scum right now.
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2010, 10:28:30 pm
Criptfeind and NUKE killed each other.What if Mr.Person was killed by an Operative?
Jim was killed by a vig.
Mr.Person was killed by something, it just says he disappeared.
Now Leafsnail, can you give a better explanation than a "look it up yourself haha"?
And Jokerman, you're being my #2 scum right now.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 10:30:25 pm
Toony: How's that?
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 24, 2010, 10:36:10 pm
I'm scum!Yes.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 24, 2010, 10:48:09 pm
Post by: Solifuge on May 25, 2010, 12:25:49 am
Day 1 - Diabolus/Nuke (Di/Nu) Analysis:
I placed a second vote on Criptfeind, and bluffed that I was bandwagoning on purpose. Di/Nu responded with blatant incredulity, along with Ottofar. Toaster tried to mediate, playing my vote down.
Di/Nu freaks out about a tie vote, and votes Web right after that, claiming that Web wants to end the day in a no-lynch. People explain and argue. Di/Nu "realizes" what Web is doing, and facepalms, calling self an idiot. Jim calls Di/Nu out on the freak-out.
I switch vote to Di/Nu. Janus pokes me with a bit of passive suspicion about "voting lurkers", and leaves it be. Jim partially tries to deflect my attention to Toaster. Mr.Person calls me on "going after noobs", for some reason refering to me as Vector. Corrected by Jim.
Nuke replaces in for Diabolus. I switch vote for clarity. Di/Nu rolls easily with it in response. Jokerman-Exe calls me on "playing differently than last time" by voting Di/Nu, and claims he will observe me more, without voting.
Jim then defends Di/Nu against the lynch votes, saying "only scum go after lurkers". Ethereal.Frog appologizes for repeatedly jumping on other bandwagons, and then jumps on me. Janus explains how it's reasonable for me to vote for Di/Nu, and defends my vote from Ethereal.Frog.
Spoiler: Nuke's big post (click to show/hide)
?He pointed out Toaster, Org, Ottofar, Criptfiend, myself, and voted Ethereal.Frog. One of them were bound to be him busing a scumbuddy. I suspect Ethereal.Frog, given that he got the vote.
Continuing on, Di/Nu softly chides Ethereal.Frog's playstyle, and advises him on how to improve his game. Mr.Person flips his shit at Criptfiend as he removes his vote from Di/Nu, and Mr.Person unvotes him after 1 post.
Diabolus/Nuke fade from the game at this point, and doesn't post for a while. Janus makes a belated post after this, that includes an explanation of Nuke "lurking to victory" in the past, and a defense of my suspicions, though I'd dropped them by that point. He also gets mad at Ethereal.Frog for voting me on the basis of the Di/Nu vote.
Di/Nu reemerges to disuade Mr.Person from leaping on me for my vote against Di/Nu/my strategy. Mr.Person takes the advice, and drops the case on me. Di/Nu waits some time... and as the popular vote shifts to Forsaken1111, he joins the wagon, defending me against Forsaken1111's vote.
Seems surprised and contentious with Web, and his "who's gunna be gunned down" thing. He does some passive suspicion-casting on Web. Mr.Person then drops the vote against me (I had since removed my vote on Di/Nu), and dogpiles Forsaken for his vote on -me-... complete 180 there. After that, no more words, he dies in the night, and flips Dopp.
So, I say Mr.Person, with a side of Ethereal.Frog.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 25, 2010, 06:17:18 am
I voted Leafsnail for a list of suspicions, I am not being passive.Man, can noone else see the scumminess? ARGH
I'm trying to piece together what happened last night.
TOONYMAN IS SCUM
Criptfeind and NUKE killed each other.One of your teammates killed Mr.Person.
Jim was killed by a vig.
Mr.Person was killed by something, it just says he disappeared.
Now Leafsnail, can you give a better explanation than a "look it up yourself haha"?
And Jokerman, you're being my #2 scum right now.
Post by: webadict on May 25, 2010, 07:26:14 am
Post by: Leafsnail on May 25, 2010, 07:42:58 am
So, you think ToonyMan is the Exterminator?Isn't that the flavour for a doppkill? I seem to remember Op killing in the same way as a vig.
Post by: Toaster on May 25, 2010, 07:43:54 am
I voted Leafsnail for a list of suspicions, I am not being passive.
I'm trying to piece together what happened last night.
Until you come up with real reasons, yes you are.
Criptfeind and NUKE killed each other.
Jim was killed by a vig.
Mr.Person was killed by something, it just says he disappeared.
Now Leafsnail, can you give a better explanation than a "look it up yourself haha"?
And Jokerman, you're being my #2 scum right now.
More of the same.
So, I say Mr.Person, with a side of Ethereal.Frog.
Are you paying attention? Mr. Person is dead and flipped human.
Post by: webadict on May 25, 2010, 08:37:01 am
I thought criptfeind killed NUKE and vice versa.So, you think ToonyMan is the Exterminator?Isn't that the flavour for a doppkill? I seem to remember Op killing in the same way as a vig.
Post by: webadict on May 25, 2010, 08:40:08 am
criptfeind was attacked by both NUKE9.13 and an Exterminator.
Jim Groovester was attacked by a Vigilante.
Mr.Person was attacked by an Operative.
Makes sense, eh? That means the Exterminator is down a shield as well.
Post by: Solifuge on May 25, 2010, 09:10:13 am
unvote Mr.Person
I will not excuse that as anything but a lack of paying attention. Tried to pull all the visible and implied details into my cranium, and Critical-Failed my Spot check. Wisdom was totally my dump stat, guys.
At work. I'll get caught up, and review my observations, given the knowledge that Mr.Person was Town.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 25, 2010, 11:44:22 am
Jokerman-EXE : JanusTwoFace, Pandarsenic
Leafsnail : ToonyMan
Pandarsenic : Jokerman-EXE
ToonyMan : Leafsnail, Toaster
webadict : Org
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 02:32:20 pm
I voted Leafsnail for a list of suspicions, I am not being passive.Man, can noone else see the scumminess? ARGH
I'm trying to piece together what happened last night.
TOONYMAN IS SCUM
I must be tone-deaf because I don't see anything. Can you please explain like I said earlier.
I voted Leafsnail for a list of suspicions, I am not being passive.
I'm trying to piece together what happened last night.
Until you come up with real reasons, yes you are.
You need a real reason to attack someone as well, bullshit doesn't pierce bodies. Bullets do.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 25, 2010, 03:12:21 pm
Criptfeind and NUKE killed each other.
Jim was killed by a vig.
Mr.Person was killed by something, it just says he disappeared.
Now Leafsnail, can you give a better explanation than a "look it up yourself haha"?
And Jokerman, you're being my #2 scum right now.
Criptfeind and NUKE9.13 didn't kill each other. NUKE9.13 protected Criptfeind and set off his War Vet'ness. A Plasma Bomb killed Criptfeind. Mr.Person's missing body is the flavor for a dopp kill usually. They take the bodies to eat them.
... long analysis post ...
So, I say Mr.Person, with a side of Ethereal.Frog.
So... long analysis post and your final result is that one of the three people we *know* to be human is scum? Good job.
It's possible that you did miss it, but it's sloppy considering how much effort it looks like you put into the rest of the post.
Got it:
criptfeind was attacked by both NUKE9.13 and an Exterminator.
Jim Groovester was attacked by a Vigilante.
Mr.Person was attacked by an Operative.
Makes sense, eh? That means the Exterminator is down a shield as well.
It's possible, but I still don't think that an Operative killed Mr.Person. Why would they have taken the body? That could easily have been the dopp kill. I'm starting to feel like a broken record, but if NUKE9.13 tried to *protect* Criptfeind to look town than it would still have triggered the War Vet (which looks like what happened because of the bullet wound).
unvote. Need to clear my head a bit, I'll give the thread another good read tonight I hope.
Post by: Solifuge on May 25, 2010, 03:26:53 pm
In retrospect, I can see that I was trying to prove to myself a preconcieved notion held over from D1, that Mr.Person was scummy. I went into my analysis of the prior day with that conviction, and it colored my investigation. When I got to the end of it, I was trying to pick out who I most suspected from among those people, and it was Mr.Person.
To be frank, it was pretty damned retarded. I sometimes find myself hillarious.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 03:30:52 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 25, 2010, 03:52:38 pm
You need a real reason to attack someone as well, bullshit doesn't pierce bodies. Bullets do.
Oh really?
Leafsnail, who do you think is scum?
I voted Leafsnail for a list of suspicions, I am not being passive.
I'm trying to piece together what happened last night.
Criptfeind and NUKE killed each other.
Jim was killed by a vig.
Mr.Person was killed by something, it just says he disappeared.
Now Leafsnail, can you give a better explanation than a "look it up yourself haha"?
And Jokerman, you're being my #2 scum right now.
Who's doing the bullshitting again? All you're doing is making me more sure.
Post by: Solifuge on May 25, 2010, 04:08:50 pm
In fact, I am quite aware that choosing such a tactic would get you killed, as personal experience has told me. Either way, should this turn into a fatal slip, I'll try to make the best of it I can.
Anywho, contribution time:
Nuke = Killed by Criptfeind, War Vet.
Criptfeind = "Was obviously protecting himself from Nuke," Killed by Exterminator (or Plasma Bombed).
Jim Groovester = Killed actively by Vigilanti.
Mr. Person = Killed actively by Doppleganger (or Abducted).
Given that a Plasma Bomb takes precedence over other kill flavors, and that all night kills are simultaneous (thus everyone involved would have been Bombed, and not separately shot), I'm inclined to believe that the Exterminator/Operativen did a regular kill. The "grenade with silver shards" flavor may have been to differentiate the kill from standard Exterminator, hence Operative. That implies that the Exterminator used a different power last night, and may still have a Plasma Bomb.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 04:14:45 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 25, 2010, 05:10:21 pm
Quoting people and telling them that "this is scummy" is bullshit. You can learn how to do that from Leafsnail.Hey, ToonyMan, why are you voting me again?
Again, look at ToonyMan's normal behaviour. Then look at this game.
The man's scum, people.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 05:14:02 pm
You did the exact same "look he is scum" for the third time now as well.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 25, 2010, 05:14:39 pm
@Soli: I'm not quite sure I follow you on your analysis of the night actions. Admittedly, I don't really understand the whole Alien element of the game. Can you explain harder, or should I just read it slower?
@Toony: I'm still waiting on your reasoning for why I look like scum to you.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 05:16:28 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 25, 2010, 05:18:02 pm
I wasn't buddying Org. I pointed to him as evidence in my case, that's it.
In the meantime, I still want to hear from Pandar. The more he talks, the more scumtells of his I can show the world.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 05:24:21 pm
You're either rolefishing or trying to get him to name you a probable vig to eliminate.
Your questions, in order: You, the kill should've been you instead of Jim, and mu. The only meta off-kilter is die scum.
This isn't 27 and you're not Joe. You can't convince me by using anger and lots of passion without any kind of backing. Seriously, you're not even trying to convince anyone.
My vote stays. You're painfully scummy.
See bold and italic.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 25, 2010, 05:34:24 pm
Bullshit reasoning, Toony. Let's see something better out of you. What are you even voting Leafsnail for? Is it the same thing, or what? I haven't kept up on your argument with him.
Besides, did you even read the post he made that I quoted? It didn't even make logical sense. I felt like he was scummy and acted on it.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 05:42:21 pm
You think I'm scummy because I could tell that someone was acting scummy. Seriously.wut
All you said was that they were scummy, that's uhh...not anything dude.
Bullshit reasoning, Toony. Let's see something better out of you. What are you even voting Leafsnail for? Is it the same thing, or what? I haven't kept up on your argument with him.wut
I just said why I was voting Leafsnail.
I hadn't heard from you in awhile and I wanted suspicions. I thought I answered this before. It also has evolved into the fact you OMGUS'ed me and now are being stupid scum with false logic.
You did the exact same "look he is scum" for the third time now as well.
Besides, did you even read the post he made that I quoted? It didn't even make logical sense. I felt like he was scummy and acted on it.wut
You're telling me to read the quote and the quote is scummy, this is what I am talking about. You can't do that, it's none of your own thinking besides drumroll.....intuition!
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 25, 2010, 05:44:48 pm
You're doing the exact same intuition thing with Leafy right at this very second.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 05:46:42 pm
1. Wanted suspicions.
2. OMGUS
3. Scum logic
Post by: Leafsnail on May 25, 2010, 05:49:59 pm
Read it.I don't think forsaken is scum. If he doesn't react on questionless RV by insulting webadict, he must be scum, is pretty bad reasoning, but he should've reacted after the third vote.
Webadict, on the other hand, seems to be spreading WIFOM, (assuming I understood the term correctly) which I find scummy. Besides, he must be asked to answer questions multiple times, and he still might not answer.
Solifuge's opening makes me still vote for him.
Alright. Unvote.
Vote Forsaken, I'm hating what you're doing right now. Grit those teeth.
ToonyMan is unvoting someone he had down as scum without reason, and changing to someone else without a proper attack.
No, he doesn't do this as town.
And I like the way you're crying OMGUS even though you basically random voted me this morning. And you accuse me of being vague while saying I'm scum for "wanted suspicions"(?) and "Scum logic".
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 05:58:29 pm
I don't remember writing crying anywhere, but I called OMGUS because that was what you did. Don't blame me for posting earlier, it's true to the fact they you did OMGUS me.
When someone wants suspicions they want who you feel is scum at the time, you gave one and that is me. By scum logic I mean the fact that you are attacking me by just quoting me and saying, "look he is scum." You finally managed to avoid that in this latest post, but I trumped you effortlessly.
Post by: webadict on May 25, 2010, 08:01:42 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 25, 2010, 08:15:26 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 25, 2010, 08:17:04 pm
ಠ_ಠ
Hey I remember you! You're that guy that posts nothing in threads! That's helpful!
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 25, 2010, 08:28:18 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 25, 2010, 10:10:29 pm
Stop trying to lurk. You haven't even read the thread, obviously. You're hoping everyone will forget you and forgive your lurking just because you have a shoddy excuse. I don't buy it. You're scum, lurking to win.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 25, 2010, 10:24:31 pm
This is why I don't trust myself to play Mafia tired.
And Toony, nothing wrong with intuition, that's how I get shit done D:
I just use it to locate people then provide actual reasons, unlike our "friend" here.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 25, 2010, 10:37:40 pm
Pandarsenic, you're lurking hard. These are about all your posts of content (I use the term loosely) for the past game day:
Forsaken got what he earned.
Leafsnail, remind us why you were voting Toaster?
My intuition has something against Toaster but I'm too tired to slog through a reread right on five hours of sleep.
Comment on the dead, I disagree. And then you first ask why Leafsnail was voting for Toaster just to go vote (close enough to make no difference) for him yourself. Why?
Jokerman-EXE
And a vote almost completely without context... There was a Jokerman post before this but I posted between the two with 2 minutes for your new reply filter to catch it.
Looks like you voted Jokerman because he voted for webadict to apply pressure for his question (especially with your later post make only of a quote).
You're either rolefishing or trying to get him to name you a probable vig to eliminate.
Your questions, in order: You, the kill should've been you instead of Jim, and mu. The only meta off-kilter is die scum.
Are you quoting something in the second part? Because you really don't make much sense.
Just keeping track of where I've read to. My current scum, Jokerman, hasn't posted recently and I've woken up too recently (yes, at 6) to trust myself to play mafia well until I've gotten dinnerbreakfast into me at the least.
Why do you even post then? Just keep a tab open. Or a sticky note. It's like you're trying to prove that you're still around without actually posting anything.
God damn it, mixed this and bay12mafia up.
This is why I don't trust myself to play Mafia tired.
And Toony, nothing wrong with intuition, that's how I get shit done D:
I just use it to locate people then provide actual reasons, unlike our "friend" here.
You should get on that providing actual reasons part. For Toaster if you still think he's scum. For Jokerman if you have more than his vote on webadict.
On another note:
Pandar, what are you even voting me for?Sorry I am actually trying to get someone anti-town, I'll try to do better next time.
As for the rest of you, I'm asking WUBA a question, and there's plenty of time for him to answer and my vote to move. So chill the fuck out. I think Org's the only one not jumping the gun to try and accuse me to cover himself, and that's because Org's...well, Org.
What does that actually mean Org?
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 25, 2010, 10:54:29 pm
No, Forsaken was defeatist and disruptive. He earned it.
That's an FoS, you idiot.
That vote was indeed for Jokerman's last post. I didn't feel your post being in the way constituted needing to make that more clear. I appear to have overestimated your intelligence, or underestimated the lengths to which you would go to accuse me of, uh. Lurking?
What I was answering was pretty clear if you scroll up like 3 posts. If you can't find it you don't deserve for me to show it to you.
Like I said, Toaster felt a little off but it wasn't enough to earn a vote. Jokerman, the reasons are there so go fuck a goat.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 26, 2010, 05:03:47 am
Leafsnail, who else do you think is scum?My read yesterday of Ethereal.Frog hasn't changed, but he doesn't seem to be here today. I'd second the call for a prod on him.
Actually, looking back at it, Org is looking like scum as well.
Have I not stated that my problems concur with that of Pandars?What would make him think that webadict is an alien rather than a dopp? Why is a potential ally more dangerous than a definate ally?
Anyways...
As you have stated, it looks like there is an exterminator. Most likely, anyway.
It is only one person, and I have my feeling of this is true.
Webadict.
Why go for the alien? As he can be just as dangerous, and team up with dopps. Might as well take down a potential ally.
This looks different from normal Org. Basically, it's about as useful as normal Org, but it seems like he's trying to pretend to have a more positive impact. I'd expect town Org to write something like "Hey, webadict is scum, bye".
Third read is weaker, but
@Leafy: Do you have any concrete proof? Because honestly, he seems the same to me. Maybe I haven't played enough games with him, but I don't see any difference yet.I'm not liking the tone of this post. Since when did mafia require "concrete proof"? Why defend him when he's annoyed about being attacked for no reason? His next post is worse though.
@Soli: I'm not quite sure I follow you on your analysis of the night actions. Admittedly, I don't really understand the whole Alien element of the game. Can you explain harder, or should I just read it slower?
@Toony: I'm still waiting on your reasoning for why I look like scum to you.
Too much intuition where? I didn't know that was a bad thing, either, but show me evidence.The first part is nothing but defence, and the next part just prods a lurker. The final sentence is worst though - it looks a lot more like something someone looking for a lynch would say than someone looking for scum.
I wasn't buddying Org. I pointed to him as evidence in my case, that's it.
In the meantime, I still want to hear from Pandar. The more he talks, the more scumtells of his I can show the world.
I'd like to tell everyone who hasn't to look at Org and say what you think. Too many of us are just ignoring him coz he's Org.
Post by: webadict on May 26, 2010, 08:02:57 am
Post by: Toaster on May 26, 2010, 08:54:19 am
Solifuge, question. You do your long analysis which ends up whiffing onto Mr.Person. You say you'll correct your observations later, and end up with this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1282690#msg1282690) where you do a analysis of the kill chain from last night. However, you don't even so much as mention a living player's name here. Where's your hunting?
Post by: Solifuge on May 26, 2010, 09:43:46 am
Solifuge, question. You do your long analysis which ends up whiffing onto Mr.Person. You say you'll correct your observations later, and end up with this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1282690#msg1282690) where you do a analysis of the kill chain from last night. However, you don't even so much as mention a living player's name here. Where's your hunting?
My huinting is not on the events of the past, but in the present. I had wanted to go back over what I'd already done, but sans Mr.Person, there wasn't really anything indicating anyone in the communication between Nuke and others. I'll leave that case open for more info to turn up, rather than spew out another text wall with little definitive substance.
@Soli: I'm not quite sure I follow you on your analysis of the night actions. Admittedly, I don't really understand the whole Alien element of the game. Can you explain harder, or should I just read it slower?
Judging by this response, paired with the bits through this debate, I'd posit that Jokerman-Exe is Scum, with the reasonable possibly of being the Exterminator/Operative. There wasn't anything in the nightkill analysis that was remotely confusing, and feigning ignorance about your role and how it works is a shoddy way to deflect attention. Moreover, trusting others until "concrete proof" against them is displayed makes you seem too in-the-know.
Couple this with your nitpicky bickerings with anyone who attacks you, and your friendly buddying with anyone who leaves you be, you seem highly self-preservationist. You've pegged yourself.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 26, 2010, 11:22:22 am
Jokerman-EXE : Pandarsenic, Solifuge
Leafsnail : ToonyMan
Pandarsenic : Jokerman-EXE
ToonyMan : Leafsnail, Toaster
webadict : Org
Ethereal.Frog was prodded yesterday. If he doesn't show up by this afternoon I'm going to look for a replacement.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 26, 2010, 01:49:59 pm
Post by: Org on May 26, 2010, 02:12:51 pm
And leaf, if I had done that, everyone would be like, No vote someone who have reasons for or something.
So I did.
Post by: Toaster on May 26, 2010, 03:40:22 pm
Do we need an extension since we might be getting a replacement, and several people haven't voted?
Post by: Leafsnail on May 26, 2010, 04:03:46 pm
Leaf: I'd try to read Org, but trying to read him is like trying to play chess while someone whacks you on the head with a whiffle ball bat. My best guess is that he either has no leads (more likely) or is scum (less likely), because once he finds something, he runs with it.I believe he does have reads - just reads which are really different to those of a normal player.
Specifically, if it's trying to look helpful, he's probably scum.
Sorry for being gone, my internets were being unable to connect.But you usually do that... indeed, you usually don't care what anyone thinks of your actions. The "everyone would be like" is telling.
And leaf, if I had done that, everyone would be like, No vote someone who have reasons for or something.
So I did.
Hmm... I dunno Leafsnail... I like ToonyMan, but your other reads are iffy.Just recheck Org... I am of the opinion he doesn't care what anyone thinks AT ALL when town. I mean, even when you're yelling at him, he's still just as likely to post a 5 word vote switch. However, as scum, I think he cares what other people think, since he's trying to avoid a lynch.
Note - I'm not saying it's bad to care what other people think - just that Org doesn't do it as town.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 26, 2010, 04:31:36 pm
Right now the day is set to end at ~5pm pacific today. However, we also need a replacement for Ethereal.Frog, so I'm tempted to extend until tomorrow.
But...I'm going to be out of town from Friday to Sunday/Monday. Which means Night 2 would probably go until Monday night or Tuesday morning.
I could extend day 2 out to Monday, which might be a bit easier.
Preferences?
Post by: Org on May 26, 2010, 04:32:01 pm
I use reason occasionally.
And extend if looking for a replace.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 26, 2010, 05:05:05 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 26, 2010, 05:31:59 pm
Yeah EXTEND this badboy to Monday.Yes please.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 26, 2010, 06:57:39 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on May 26, 2010, 07:04:08 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on May 26, 2010, 09:47:07 pm
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 26, 2010, 10:38:54 pm
I have come to resolve your conflicts, or at least make them more interesting, bringing peace and prosperity to all, be you Townie, Dopp, or even a humble Alien.
More seriously, I'm around halfway through the thread. Will post with thoughts and accusations shortly.
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 26, 2010, 11:05:52 pm
Unvote Jim Groovestar because I'm a scared lazy noob.
Oh, good! I'm replacing a fellow newb.
Currently ToonyMan is my number one choice for scum, mostly for what seems to be pretend scumhunting. I agree with Leafsnail's analysis that he's been posting crap and promising, but not delivering, proof.
Org, I know from reading past games that you take a while to turn up scum, and are exceptionally effective at doing so, but I'm not getting that from you this time. It feels more like you're banking on that perception of you to stall for time.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 26, 2010, 11:08:42 pm
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 26, 2010, 11:13:57 pm
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 26, 2010, 11:15:23 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 26, 2010, 11:19:55 pm
Day 2 is now Extended to ~5pm Pacific Monday. I reserve the right to extend it further depending on what happens that day IRL. :P
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 26, 2010, 11:22:24 pm
Post by: Org on May 27, 2010, 05:56:51 am
I am slightly confused.Unvote Jim Groovestar because I'm a scared lazy noob.
Oh, good! I'm replacing a fellow newb.
Currently ToonyMan is my number one choice for scum, mostly for what seems to be pretend scumhunting. I agree with Leafsnail's analysis that he's been posting crap and promising, but not delivering, proof.
Org, I know from reading past games that you take a while to turn up scum, and are exceptionally effective at doing so, but I'm not getting that from you this time. It feels more like you're banking on that perception of you to stall for time.
Now, you can't really read into a game you haven't played.
Post by: Ottofar on May 27, 2010, 07:01:37 am
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 07:45:55 am
Now, you can't really read into a game you haven't played....What is that supposed to mean?
Post by: Toaster on May 27, 2010, 08:07:18 am
I'm going to our summer cottage for over the weekend, And willn't be seen.
I buy that you're out of town since you posted that in every game you're in.
However, Ottofar, this is your only post for the day. If the day hadn't been extended, you would have gone a whole day saying zilch. That's some pretty foul lurking. When you get back, let's get some content from you, ok?
Post by: Solifuge on May 27, 2010, 10:14:21 am
Anywho, I dub our new contendor Etherealone.Wolfrog I, as the actions of your predecessor do not recieve a magical erasure.
So then, what mistakes did you think Ethereal.Frog made, and how would you have done things differently, Mr. Wolfrog I?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 11:25:59 am
To goad Org into responding. I'll switch my vote to ToonyMan before the day ends if nothing happens to change my opinion.
You're not going to get a genuine reaction from someone if you see you are voting them for a reaction.
Can you show me where I haven't been attacking? Because I remember attacking people.
Post by: Org on May 27, 2010, 12:50:53 pm
Yeah. That was bad.Now, you can't really read into a game you haven't played....What is that supposed to mean?
You can't read into a player when you haven't played with them.
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 01:43:33 pm
To goad Org into responding. I'll switch my vote to ToonyMan before the day ends if nothing happens to change my opinion.
You're not going to get a genuine reaction from someone if you see you are voting them for a reaction.
Can you show me where I haven't been attacking? Because I remember attacking people.
I could care less about the reaction being genuine. A reaction of some sort is all I wanted.
Where you haven't been attacking:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So then, what mistakes did you think Ethereal.Frog made, and how would you have done things differently, Mr. Wolfrog I?
This quote from Janus effectively sums up the mistakes he made. As an added bonus, he tossed in a summary of my reasons for suspecting Org at the end.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks to me like most of his mistakes stem from apathy and newbishness. I think he really did just give up and walk away.
Yeah. That was bad.Now, you can't really read into a game you haven't played....What is that supposed to mean?
You can't read into a player when you haven't played with them.
And this definitely qualifies as some sort of reaction. Org, you are now my number two choice for scum. Rather than questioning my ability to read into things, how about we start seeing some results from your own. It's fine that you suspect Webadict of being the Exterminator. In fact, I agree with you on that. However, hunting him to the exclusion of all else makes it look, to me, like you're covering for your scumbuddies.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 01:59:05 pm
Today I began fresh with Leafsnail and worked from there with still Leafsnail and now you.
A reaction of some sort? Every question you ask is going to get a reaction of some sort, you aren't going to get what you want if you go accept anything! That just makes it sound like you just want to pad your way through the day oh I don't know active lurking. You accused me of being passive by making a list and you make the exact same thing in the post above me!
For my attacks that lack "proof" which is preposterous in the first place, I don't have concrete proof! Unless you know something that I don't know I attack people the way they act or behave. I don't make up something which makes no sense or make up concrete proof by lying.
You going to stop being a hypocrite scum and stop your passivity and active lurking so far?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 02:00:54 pm
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 02:05:27 pm
So then, what mistakes did you think Ethereal.Frog made, and how would you have done things differently, Mr. Wolfrog I?
Forgot to answer that last part. Sorry. I'd have recreated the thoughtful post, or, better yet, written it in Notepad. I think I'd have paid attention to the Ottofar/Webadict conflict, and ultimately side with Webadict. I did not see anything suspicious about Jim when I was reading the early posts. You would never see anything like his last post out of me. That was just plain stupid. I suppose I should count myself fortunate that you all jumped Forsaken and forgot about him, even though it ended in a Townie lynch. As far as what I would have done during the time he was absent, I would have been working my own scumhunt, and would likely have joined in lynching Forsaken if it yielded no fruit. I didn't get any real suspicions of my own until the first few pages of day two when I read through the thread.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 02:06:27 pm
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 02:19:41 pm
A reaction of some sort? Every question you ask is going to get a reaction of some sort, you aren't going to get what you want if you go accept anything! That just makes it sound like you just want to pad your way through the day oh I don't know active lurking. You accused me of being passive by making a list and you make the exact same thing in the post above me!Concrete proof? I expect nothing concrete at this phase. You make claims but fail to provide the supporting logic, or at least indicate where your ideas are coming from. This is what I mean by proof.
For my attacks that lack "proof" which is preposterous in the first place, I don't have concrete proof! Unless you know something that I don't know I attack people the way they act or behave. I don't make up something which makes no sense or make up concrete proof by lying.
You going to stop being a hypocrite scum and stop your passivity and active lurking so far?
I have yet to see you attack someone outright. You waited for someone else to attack you, and you've been defending yourself ever since. I haven't seen a single instance of you taking initiative and leading the charge against your own suspected scum without provocation.
Post by: Org on May 27, 2010, 02:33:26 pm
You dont want to go after someone YOU THINK IS AN EXTERM.?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 02:34:00 pm
A reaction of some sort? Every question you ask is going to get a reaction of some sort, you aren't going to get what you want if you go accept anything! That just makes it sound like you just want to pad your way through the day oh I don't know active lurking. You accused me of being passive by making a list and you make the exact same thing in the post above me!Concrete proof? I expect nothing concrete at this phase. You make claims but fail to provide the supporting logic, or at least indicate where your ideas are coming from. This is what I mean by proof.
For my attacks that lack "proof" which is preposterous in the first place, I don't have concrete proof! Unless you know something that I don't know I attack people the way they act or behave. I don't make up something which makes no sense or make up concrete proof by lying.
You going to stop being a hypocrite scum and stop your passivity and active lurking so far?
I have yet to see you attack someone outright. You waited for someone else to attack you, and you've been defending yourself ever since. I haven't seen a single instance of you taking initiative and leading the charge against your own suspected scum without provocation.
You should look better because I have. You see here I like to keep a balance between attacking and defending so I don't end up "everyone ignores you Webadict" aggressive or "scummy" defensive or whatever.
Yeah, if it's not concrete proof then it must be from judging what others say, I don't see why you had to fix yourself with that, it makes no sense! I support my accusations the best I can, but it's not concrete! You don't seem to understand that and are confusing everyone.
You must be blind because I am attacking you right now. Maybe you should spend more time actually playing mafia.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 02:49:45 pm
So what is he meant to do, considering he hasn't played with any of us before?Yeah. That was bad.Now, you can't really read into a game you haven't played....What is that supposed to mean?
You can't read into a player when you haven't played with them.
I began fresh with a RV on Leafsnail, then genuinely attacked Ottofar yesterday, and then voted Forsaken because he was acting more scummy than Ottofar.I don't see any active lurking from Lone Wolf... he's just been attacking you. I don't see how going straight for one person and attacking them could possibly be seen as active lurking. Tunneling, maybe... but you obviously can't make such an accusation.
Today I began fresh with Leafsnail and worked from there with still Leafsnail and now you.
A reaction of some sort? Every question you ask is going to get a reaction of some sort, you aren't going to get what you want if you go accept anything! That just makes it sound like you just want to pad your way through the day oh I don't know active lurking. You accused me of being passive by making a list and you make the exact same thing in the post above me!
For my attacks that lack "proof" which is preposterous in the first place, I don't have concrete proof! Unless you know something that I don't know I attack people the way they act or behave. I don't make up something which makes no sense or make up concrete proof by lying.
You going to stop being a hypocrite scum and stop your passivity and active lurking so far?
Your last post seems to flip the hell out over a small point.
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 02:52:37 pm
What.
You dont want to go after someone YOU THINK IS AN EXTERM.?
I do think he's an exterm, and I do think we should go after him. My concern with you is that you're doing nothing else, and you could be using the suspicions on Webadict as a safe harbor to pretend to scumhunt while protecting your buddies. What is your opinion on the Me/Leafsnail vs Toonyman conflict? Who do you think the three remaining dopps are?
@ Someone other than Org, Webadict, or Tooneyman: Am I underestimating the importance of finding the Exty early? If I am, I will drop my pursuit of Org, and turn my attentions elsewhere.
You should look better because I have. You see here I like to keep a balance between attacking and defending so I don't end up "everyone ignores you Webadict" aggressive or "scummy" defensive or whatever.
Yeah, if it's not concrete proof then it must be from judging what others say, I don't see why you had to fix yourself with that, it makes no sense! I support my accusations the best I can, but it's not concrete! You don't seem to understand that and are confusing everyone.
You must be blind because I am attacking you right now. Maybe you should spend more time actually playing mafia.
You haven't attacked a single person who did not attack you first. Any time you haven't been under attack, you've been activelurking.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 02:56:03 pm
When I explain something I explain it. I really can't get any simpler than what I just said. I support what I say by providing quotes and referring to things that actually happened. You don't seem to understand that and I fear in the near future you're going to keep pulling that same phrase over and over again to make my attempts seem negligible and ineffective Lonewolf I. Doing that isn't helpful to town, it just makes a whole page or two a repeating clusternut, which in turn makes the town (if they happen to be so) lazy. I do not want this because it will most definitely hurt town's chances to find the remaining three scum and exterminator. Who we want dead, and being all reassured because there is more of us is NOT okay! Dead and earlier is what we are going to do OK?
Now Lonewolf, are you going to repeat the same accusation to waste time like the scum you are, going to keep your third bandwagon vote on me, relax your way to the end of the day, and not have me to worry about? Because you do I have me to worry about, I am not going to let town go soft. This is expected of all of us.
Pandarsenic, don't join games if your to busy taking a trillion exams.
Webadict is not posting as much as he usually does, lurking is not Webadict...
Org, be helpful scumguin.
Jokerman, stop being passive you weakling town or more appropriately SCUM.
Leafsnail, attacking me for voting who I thought was most scum, just stupid.
Right now my thoughts are this,
Dopps,
Leafsnail
Jokerman
Lonewolf I
Exterminator,
Webadict or Org
Lonewolf shouldn't incorrectly accuse me of active lurking.I began fresh with a RV on Leafsnail, then genuinely attacked Ottofar yesterday, and then voted Forsaken because he was acting more scummy than Ottofar.I don't see any active lurking from Lone Wolf... he's just been attacking you. I don't see how going straight for one person and attacking them could possibly be seen as active lurking. Tunneling, maybe... but you obviously can't make such an accusation.
Today I began fresh with Leafsnail and worked from there with still Leafsnail and now you.
A reaction of some sort? Every question you ask is going to get a reaction of some sort, you aren't going to get what you want if you go accept anything! That just makes it sound like you just want to pad your way through the day oh I don't know active lurking. You accused me of being passive by making a list and you make the exact same thing in the post above me!
For my attacks that lack "proof" which is preposterous in the first place, I don't have concrete proof! Unless you know something that I don't know I attack people the way they act or behave. I don't make up something which makes no sense or make up concrete proof by lying.
You going to stop being a hypocrite scum and stop your passivity and active lurking so far?
Your last post seems to flip the hell out over a small point.Finding small detail in everything is how you catch scum.
Stop making up crap and support yourself with evidence hypocrite. I remember clearly attacking people first yesterday and today. Your WOT or whatever on me is the opposite of what I see, you're interpreting wrong scum.You should look better because I have. You see here I like to keep a balance between attacking and defending so I don't end up "everyone ignores you Webadict" aggressive or "scummy" defensive or whatever.
Yeah, if it's not concrete proof then it must be from judging what others say, I don't see why you had to fix yourself with that, it makes no sense! I support my accusations the best I can, but it's not concrete! You don't seem to understand that and are confusing everyone.
You must be blind because I am attacking you right now. Maybe you should spend more time actually playing mafia.
You haven't attacked a single person who did not attack you first. Any time you haven't been under attack, you've been activelurking.
Post by: Solifuge on May 27, 2010, 03:07:32 pm
I don't see any active lurking from Lone Wolf... he's just been attacking you. I don't see how going straight for one person and attacking them could possibly be seen as active lurking. Tunneling, maybe... but you obviously can't make such an accusation.
(Toonyman,) your last post seems to flip the hell out over a small point.
I would have to second that, ToonyMan. You have flipped your proverbial shit, though the last post had a bit less fire and brimstone. Lone's got good, level-headed analysis, while you look like you're trying to prove how useful you are to everyone.
Also Org, you are REALLY obsessing over the Exterminator thing... into the realm of unhelpfulness. Remember that, for lynching, Scum are priority #1, and Exterminators priority #2. A 3rd-Party that is against both you and your enemy is still half an ally. We kill the Exterminator when their threat outweighs their usefulness... and more often they kill themselves on a War Veteran, Vengeful Guardian, or get Dopple-Snacked.
Moreover, y'all are trying to fit your observations into your preconcieved notions. That's bad science, doods. I'll be back to drop some friggin' nobel-prize-winning peer-reviewed Science on your collective arses this evening.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 03:11:00 pm
O.o
...
Looks like I'm going into my point of no return, bah. Sorry. Cool headed Toon here and out.
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 03:14:51 pm
Stop making up crap and support yourself with evidence hypocrite. I remember clearly attacking people first yesterday and today. Your WOT or whatever on me is the opposite of what I see, you're interpreting wrong scum.
Here's my evidence:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 03:17:50 pm
I remember clearly attacking people first yesterday and today. Your WOT or whatever on me is the opposite of what I see, you're interpreting wrong scum.
I can quote stuff I say too.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 03:18:43 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 03:21:47 pm
My play-style is different then yours, I don't make reactions to reply #'s in a thread like you do.
I list peoples names and write down what I think of them, like I did 2-3 posts back. I remember writing something down about you,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Heh, whoops.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 27, 2010, 03:35:54 pm
Lonewolf I: ToonyMan
Jokerman-EXE : Pandarsenic, Solifuge
Org : Lonewolf I
Pandarsenic : Jokerman-EXE
ToonyMan : Leafsnail, Toaster
webadict : Org
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 03:36:30 pm
You're trying to defend yourself by claiming that you have, in fact, been attacking people. True. You have been attacking people. You are missing the point. I claim that you have not attacked someone without first being provoked. Please provide evidence to the contrary.
At the most basic level, your attacks appear to be nothing but continual OMGUS. I reason that you're either playing lazily, and not bothering to do your own scumhunting, or you're scum, and attempting to dress up your defending yourself as scumhunting.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 03:38:27 pm
Post by: Org on May 27, 2010, 03:47:12 pm
I am not scum.
What do I think of you three? Toony is acting weird but wolf is really bussing his partner there.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 03:51:37 pm
I didn't say "just stupid" in the way you interpreted it, it was a little remark for what I said before it, correct in every way.
@Lonewolf:
Pandarsenic, why did you get a scum role this game?RVS
Ottofar, your reaction unnerves me to no end.I attacked first.
Vote Forsaken, I'm hating what you're doing right now. Grit those teeth.I attacked first.
Leafsnail, who do you think is scum?I attacked first.
Unvote. Vote Lonewolf I.Someone else finally attacked first.
So makes me (not counted RVS) attacking people first 3 out of 4 times. That goes against what you accusations are.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 03:52:41 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 03:53:33 pm
I was on the offense side first 3 out of 4 times.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 03:54:14 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 03:55:35 pm
Because what would you call it?Comments or questions accompanied by a vote.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 03:58:40 pm
Because what would you call it?Comments or questions accompanied by a vote.
You are downplaying what is going on here! I said your vote was a OMGUS, but you got all upset about it, notice a similarity?
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 04:00:37 pm
Post by: webadict on May 27, 2010, 04:05:36 pm
Hey, ToonyMan, if I'm "just stupid", why am I on your dopps list? I mean, if people who are stupid are scum, surely there are others who could go on your list.So... yeah... Leafsnail.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 04:10:28 pm
If you explode on me now then, frankly, I'm just gonna give up on this game.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 04:10:58 pm
To what?
You didn't like the way I interpreted the OMGUS so you are misinterpreting my attacking votes on purpose.
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 04:24:53 pm
Jokerman - I did get a town vibe off you. What do you think? Is Toonyman scum? Or is Leafsnail scum who found a chink in Toonyman's armor and is exploiting it for all it's worth?
Org and Toaster are my other choices for scum, though I may replace Org with Pandarsenic on further review, per Jokerman's suspicions. I need to go back and check Toaster. Jim had something there before he died, and I intend to follow up on it.
Webadict is my choice for exty. Even if Org is scum, I think he'll pursue legit leads to try and look Town.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 04:32:28 pm
I am not.To what?
You didn't like the way I interpreted the OMGUS so you are misinterpreting my attacking votes on purpose.
To me, an attack means you have to give evidence along with the vote showing someone to be scum, or at least point to why you're doing it. This certainly isn't the case for me or the forsaken vote.
Post by: Org on May 27, 2010, 04:53:39 pm
Leafsnail - You made some good points about Toonyman, but you're not helping at the moment. I went back and checked all your posts, but I can't get a proper read on you.Why am i scum?
Jokerman - I did get a town vibe off you. What do you think? Is Toonyman scum? Or is Leafsnail scum who found a chink in Toonyman's armor and is exploiting it for all it's worth?
Org and Toaster are my other choices for scum, though I may replace Org with Pandarsenic on further review, per Jokerman's suspicions. I need to go back and check Toaster. Jim had something there before he died, and I intend to follow up on it.
Webadict is my choice for exty. Even if Org is scum, I think he'll pursue legit leads to try and look Town.
Post by: Org on May 27, 2010, 04:54:00 pm
Any grounds, webadict?Hehehe.
If you explode on me now then, frankly, I'm just gonna give up on this game.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 27, 2010, 05:03:24 pm
Org is suspicious as fuck.
PFP, also high.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 05:09:32 pm
Leafy and Wolf are buddying to the max.We're buddying up to who?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 05:23:06 pm
Leafy and Wolf are buddying to the max.We're buddying up to who?
...Each other? Isn't that how it works?
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 05:29:12 pm
Buddying is getting close to a townie to get them on your side. If you see two people buddying each other you've definately fucked up your read.
Unless you think I'm trying to ingratiate myself with a scumbuddy?
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 27, 2010, 05:33:40 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 05:35:17 pm
Yeah. That would be what I'm saying. Stop playing dumb, dude.Yeah. I totally try to make my scumbuddies (who already know I'm on their team) try to like me more.
...
You can't be serious.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 27, 2010, 05:39:10 pm
1. You're doing it just so you can use an excuse like this. Pretty obvious, but it's there.
2. One of you (LEAFY) is scum trying to get the townie to support you. I'm leaning towards number 2 here.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 05:40:45 pm
Two options:But he's buddying me as well, apparently.
1. You're doing it just so you can use an excuse like this. Pretty obvious, but it's there.
2. One of you (LEAFY) is scum trying to get the townie to support you. I'm leaning towards number 2 here.
Come to think of it, I've no idea where you got this impression. Care to provide quotes?
Post by: Org on May 27, 2010, 05:44:22 pm
Leafy and Wolf are buddying to the max.Why
Org is suspicious as fuck.
PFP, also high.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 27, 2010, 05:57:48 pm
I began fresh with a RV on Leafsnail, then genuinely attacked Ottofar yesterday, and then voted Forsaken because he was acting more scummy than Ottofar.I don't see any active lurking from Lone Wolf... he's just been attacking you. I don't see how going straight for one person and attacking them could possibly be seen as active lurking. Tunneling, maybe... but you obviously can't make such an accusation.
Today I began fresh with Leafsnail and worked from there with still Leafsnail and now you.
A reaction of some sort? Every question you ask is going to get a reaction of some sort, you aren't going to get what you want if you go accept anything! That just makes it sound like you just want to pad your way through the day oh I don't know active lurking. You accused me of being passive by making a list and you make the exact same thing in the post above me!
For my attacks that lack "proof" which is preposterous in the first place, I don't have concrete proof! Unless you know something that I don't know I attack people the way they act or behave. I don't make up something which makes no sense or make up concrete proof by lying.
You going to stop being a hypocrite scum and stop your passivity and active lurking so far?
Your last post seems to flip the hell out over a small point.
Casually giving support to Wolf, when he's perfectly capable of defending himself.
None of those are real attacks... especially not the one on me.
Attempting to further Wolf's point when I can't see much benefit for you to have gone out of your way.
Which, now that I think of it, is what I've been meaning to ask of you. I've not seen much original thought out of you this game. That's unusual for you. Care to explain?
@Lone Wolf: While I initially thought ToonyMan was scum (and he has exhibited a lot of scumlike behavior) I now believe that Leafsnail is scummier, as per my above analysis. Toony isn't subtle enough to be acting like scum as I first believed. Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read, and I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.
@Org:
Leafy and Wolf are buddying to the max.Why
Org is suspicious as fuck.
PFP, also high.
Because Leaf is scum.
I'm just getting a bad vibe off of you. I don't like how you've been kind of lurky. You're starting to shake that, and WUBA is looking more like an Exty than you, but I've still got a close eye on you.
My psych has me on new meds, that's why I'm high. If I've been weird for a few days, it's because of that.
Post by: Org on May 27, 2010, 06:03:46 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 27, 2010, 06:05:14 pm
My bad. Like I said, haven't been myself the last couple days.
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 06:09:31 pm
Toaster, was Jim wrong?
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 06:16:23 pm
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
Casually giving support to Wolf, when he's perfectly capable of defending himself.The attack was crap, and you should realise that.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
Attempting to further Wolf's point when I can't see much benefit for you to have gone out of your way.This is a ridiculous stretch. What I said had nothing to do with Wolf... and if you don't see any benefit for me doing it, how is it a scumtell?
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
Which, now that I think of it, is what I've been meaning to ask of you. I've not seen much original thought out of you this game. That's unusual for you. Care to explain?...This is a pretty abstract accusation. And I disagree with it. I was one of the first to call ToonyMan and Org scum; I was certainly the first to bring my arguments against them. What do you actually mean by this?
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
Because Leaf is scum.I'm hard to read, but you've got a full scumread on me.
Right.
Your logic isn't even internally consistent, and what's more, you're reaching.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.You must be pretty high, because I was attacking ToonyMan before Wolf was even in the game. In fact, I was the first person to seriously attack ToonyMan this game.
So I guess you're accusing me of trying to lynch the person I'm voting for.
I also like the way you address Wolf like he's town aligned when you said he was "Buddying to the max" in your previous post.
It seems that Jokerman is the fourth scum. We can lynch him after ToonyMan.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 27, 2010, 06:35:40 pm
Quote from: Jokerman-EXECasually giving support to Wolf, when he's perfectly capable of defending himself.The attack was crap, and you should realise that.
Be that as it may, you were jumping in where it wasn't needed.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXEAttempting to further Wolf's point when I can't see much benefit for you to have gone out of your way.This is a ridiculous stretch. What I said had nothing to do with Wolf... and if you don't see any benefit for me doing it, how is it a scumtell?
How is it a scumtell when someone is doing something and it isn't clear for what purpose? Maybe it has to do with the fact that scum do that all the time, because they can make plans via scumchat that the rest of us aren't privy to.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXEWhich, now that I think of it, is what I've been meaning to ask of you. I've not seen much original thought out of you this game. That's unusual for you. Care to explain?...This is a pretty abstract accusation. And I disagree with it. I was one of the first to call ToonyMan and Org scum; I was certainly the first to bring my arguments against them. What do you actually mean by this?
Subtle deflection. I mean that while you might have made an accusation first, I've not seen much beyond that that hasn't been said by someone else, first. Usually, you're out in the front and making accusations with backings and all that. You seem almost passive by comparison this game.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXELeafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to readQuote from: Jokerman-EXEBecause Leaf is scum.I'm hard to read, but you've got a full scumread on me.
Right.
Your logic isn't even internally consistent, and what's more, you're reaching.
You're harder to read. Doesn't mean I can't read scum on you. You're scrambling now.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXEI think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.You must be pretty high, because I was attacking ToonyMan before Wolf was even in the game. In fact, I was the first person to seriously attack ToonyMan this game.
So I guess you're accusing me of trying to lynch the person I'm voting for.
I also like the way you address Wolf like he's town aligned when you said he was "Buddying to the max" in your previous post.
It seems that Jokerman is the fourth scum. We can lynch him after ToonyMan.
I'm not addressing Wolf in any way that I'm not addressing every other player. Unlike you, when I make a move I make an effort to be transparent with my reasoning, so that I don't seem like scum.
The way you are.
I want to see you hang, Leafsnail. Unvote whomever, vote Leafsnail.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2010, 06:59:09 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 27, 2010, 07:01:26 pm
Be that as it may, you were jumping in where it wasn't needed.Exposing scum is always needed.
How is it a scumtell when someone is doing something and it isn't clear for what purpose? Maybe it has to do with the fact that scum do that all the time, because they can make plans via scumchat that the rest of us aren't privy to.You're calling me scum because you don't understand what I'm doing? Great.
Subtle deflection. I mean that while you might have made an accusation first, I've not seen much beyond that that hasn't been said by someone else, first. Usually, you're out in the front and making accusations with backings and all that. You seem almost passive by comparison this game.If your definition of "deflection" is "brought up points that completely and utterly refute your case" then yes, it was deflection.
Look at the way I attacked ToonyMan first and pushed his lynch. Look at the way I was the first to attack Org and try and beat the curse of him being unreadable. I'm certainly not being passive this game.
You're harder to read. Doesn't mean I can't read scum on you. You're scrambling now.It's hard to be scrambling when noone has brought a valid point against you.
And why say I'm hard to read if you have a full scumread on me? Again, I don't get it.
I'm not addressing Wolf in any way that I'm not addressing every other player.USO DA
You fecking addressed him. With an @ symbol before his bloody name.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
@Lone Wolf: While I initially thought ToonyMan was scum (and he has exhibited a lot of scumlike behavior) I now believe that Leafsnail is scummier, as per my above analysis. Toony isn't subtle enough to be acting like scum as I first believed. Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read, and I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.
Unlike you, when I make a move I make an effort to be transparent with my reasoning, so that I don't seem like scum.Unlike you, when I make a move I try to find scum without worrying about self image. Comes with the alignment.
So yeah, if retards lynch me today, Jokerman, Org and ToonyMan are scum.
There's only 3 dopps.And an exterminator.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 27, 2010, 07:40:34 pm
I'm not calling you scum because I don't understand what you're doing. I'm saying taking an action and then refusing to explain why, when it made no sense to anyone, is scummy.
I'll grant that you attacked Toony first. I apologize for that, I mixed up my games.
I said that you were harder to read, not that I hadn't read you. Just because it was harder doesn't mean I didn't do it.
I ADDRESSED YOU IN THE EXACT SAME MANNER IN THE SAME POST, DUDE.
You're seriously just not even really trying anymore. This is insane. I can't believe that no one is seeing this. Pandar and Leafsnail are two of the remaining scum. It's so fucking obvious.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 27, 2010, 09:04:26 pm
What I was answering was pretty clear if you scroll up like 3 posts. If you can't find it you don't deserve for me to show it to you.
Did you really just say that? How many times in how many games have you come in and asked something to be explained to you because you were too lazy to do it yourself?
And then after that you ask a decent question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1286156#msg1286156) (albeit short) of Lonewolf I and quote the mod. Neither of which is exactly scum hunting. You haven't changed your vote since voting Jokerman for potential rolefishing against webadict, nor have commented on it since so far as I can tell.
Other than Jokerman, who do you think the scum are and why? Preferably with more reason that intuition.
Org
Internet gone (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1284877#msg1284877). Then there's the argument that Lonewolf I cannot read your meta because he's never played against you, but that's only half true. I don't think he's actually too far off base.
From there you basically are on the defensive, asking why the Exterminator is so important (um, because the Exterminator is scum?...) and then several times asking people to explain why they think you're scum.
But you know what you're not doing at all? Looking for scum. Less so than you even usually do. Looks scummy.
Webadict
For the amount of crap you tend to kick up (and managed to kick up earlier this game), you've been awfully quite the last few pages. Any particular reason?
And this:
Hey, ToonyMan, if I'm "just stupid", why am I on your dopps list? I mean, if people who are stupid are scum, surely there are others who could go on your list.So... yeah... Leafsnail.
Could you explain? Unfortunately but perhaps luckily, we cannot read your mind. What is particularly scummy about this post and are there any other reasons that Leafsnail is scummy to you?
Ottofar
I know it's been said, but you've been lurking something fierce even before disappearing off to a summer cottage. I expect a decent analysis when you get back.
Toaster
Your last two posts were to poke Ottofar for lurking and to ask for an Extension. Be more active. Specifically, what is your read on the recent conversation/argument between Jokerman-EXE and Leafsnail? And who do you think the scum are?
Post by: Toaster on May 27, 2010, 10:59:57 pm
Was that what you were looking for?
Janus:
I'm dragging ToonyMan into your question, if you don't mind.
Initially I liked Leaf for town. Toony had posts that seemed empty, and Joker had been focusing on Pandar.
During the argument, Toony's arguments became wordier, but not really any better. Solifuge calls him on this, and he quiets back down. Past that he didn't say much at all, but this is where Jokerman takes over. He jumps in on the offensive as Toony is quieting down. Joker does better, and pokes some holes in his arguments. Leaf's defense is decent, but Jokerman appears to have a small leg up on this one.
Joker claims to have originally suspected Toony, but had no problem moving in on his attacker. This smells like it could be a chainsaw defense. Final thoughts? I still feel heavily that Toony is scum, and intend to leave my vote on him. If he dies and flips scum, I'll be reading hard on Jokerman. If he flips town, though, I'll be reexamining Leafsnail.
I'd like to know this:
Jokerman and Leafsnail: If ToonyMan was lynched and flipped scum, would you two be more, less, or equally suspicious of the other?
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 27, 2010, 11:20:28 pm
Lonewolf: It depends on which of his accusations you mean. Am I new? Yes, I am. I played like crap day one, and I intend to make up for it now. I was (clearly) wrong on my suspicions of him. It appears he's always that defensive. Am I scum, what you probably meant? No, I am not. Day one I didn't have any leads, so I tried to ask probing questions to get some. All I got was a bust.
Was that what you were looking for?
Meh. More or less. Unvote
JanusTwoFace - What do you think of a Jokerman/Toonyman/Pandarsenic scumteam at this point?
Leafsnail - Assuming we're wrong about scum Toony, and he has just been lazy, who are you reading as scum?
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 27, 2010, 11:46:34 pm
I've been noticing a slight problem, though, in that only a few of us are still even contributing. That being said, I'm not getting megascum vibes off of everyone that's posting, and I think we need to reign it in a little on the off chance that the scum are simply lurking while we build up a head of steam and start lynching each other and they don't do anything.
I'm not saying that talking and posting and examining is a bad idea. I like that we're doing so much. I'm just pointing out that they could simply be lurking and allowing us to kill ourselves. I'd like to hear from Soli, Pandar, Ottofar, and slightly more out of Janus. That seems a reasonable request, since we've been extended until next week.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 28, 2010, 01:08:23 am
*Cue remix*
"Also I don't want to attract the ire of the players who seem like the most likely candidates to change their votes to me, so I'll try to draw attention to anyone who isn't posting right the hell now."
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 04:38:09 am
Leafsnail - Assuming we're wrong about scum Toony, and he has just been lazy, who are you reading as scum?Not the guy who's attacking me in a blaze of misrepping and retardedness, I can tell you that.
It's still Jokerman and Org.
You weren't exposing scum. You were putting your input into someone else's conversation.I was showing how blatantly dumb ToonyMan's point was. I don't see what your problem is.
I'm not calling you scum because I don't understand what you're doing. I'm saying taking an action and then refusing to explain why, when it made no sense to anyone, is scummy.WHAT action? I've said exactly why I'm voting Toony, and exactly why you and Org are his partners.
I said that you were harder to read, not that I hadn't read you. Just because it was harder doesn't mean I didn't do it.SO WHAT POINT WERE YOU TRYING TO MAKE BY SAYING I WAS HARD TO READ
I ADDRESSED YOU IN THE EXACT SAME MANNER IN THE SAME POST, DUDE.
I'm not addressing Wolf in any way that I'm not addressing every other player. Unlike you, when I make a move I make an effort to be transparent with my reasoning, so that I don't seem like scum.liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar
Die.
Look at the two ways of addressing. Mine accuses me of being scum, his warns him not to trust me because I'm "hard to read". That's definately addressing him from a town aligned POV (scum doesn't need to be careful of scum).
Quite frankly, if ANYONE is buying your arguments, they're retarded and deserve to lose.
You're seriously just not even really trying anymore. This is insane. I can't believe that no one is seeing this. Pandar and Leafsnail are two of the remaining scum. It's so fucking obvious.Lol. You show literally no evidence and then declare this out of the blue.
On the other hand, all this resistance I'm meeting strengthens my read on ToonyMan. You're clearly chainsaw defending him.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2010, 08:16:18 am
Leafsnail isn't posting much of an argument, so I figured I'd vote him. Usually, I like his readings of people, but this time I dislike them.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 08:26:25 am
Leafsnail isn't posting much of an argument, so I figured I'd vote him. Usually, I like his readings of people, but this time I dislike them.Huh? I've given a lot of reasons against ToonyMan and Jokerman-EXE at least...
And the second part isn't true. Since when have you liked my reads or my playstyle?
Post by: Mephansteras on May 28, 2010, 10:26:41 am
Lonewolf I: ToonyMan
Jokerman-EXE : Pandarsenic, Solifuge
Leafsnail : Lonewolf I, Jokerman-EXE, webadict
ToonyMan : Leafsnail, Toaster
webadict : Org
Day 2 ends ~5pm Pacific Monday.
I will be heading off to go camping in a bit, so I probably won't be posting again until sometime late Sunday night or Monday.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 28, 2010, 10:37:49 am
You're whining about my tone when I talked to someone else? Oh, boo hoo, I wasn't as suspicious as someone as I am of you. Since when is that a reason to accuse me?
Good try with attempting to stay cool, but you're not doing so well in the accusation department. You're scum, anyway.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 10:53:56 am
Now you're intentionally trying to cast me as scum when I'm not, Leafsnail. How many times have I said, I'm not defending Toony at all? I still hold a lot of suspicion towards him; you just happen to be a lot scummier.You're not defending him, you're just making completely bullshit attacks on his attacker while ignoring him. Oh no, that's not the definition of chainsaw defence at all.
Quote from: Jokerman
You're whining about my tone when I talked to someone else? Oh, boo hoo, I wasn't as suspicious as someone as I am of you. Since when is that a reason to accuse me?LIAR
Fucksake, if anyone can't see your blatant lies I'm gonna scream. A LOT.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
@Lone Wolf: While I initially thought ToonyMan was scum (and he has exhibited a lot of scumlike behavior) I now believe that Leafsnail is scummier, as per my above analysis. Toony isn't subtle enough to be acting like scum as I first believed. Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read, and I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.THIS POST SAYS THAT LONEWOLF IS TOWN AND THAT I AM MANIPULATING HIM
THERE IS NO QUESTION OF THIS FACT
EVERY TIME YOU DENY IT YOU'RE MAKING YOURSELF MORE OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH A FUCKING BRAIN
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
Good try with attempting to stay cool, but you're not doing so well in the accusation department. You're scum, anyway.If noone else can see the blatant misrepping, retardedness and reaching coming from you then again, they deserve to lose. Your accusations thrown at me are random (what happened to "lack of creativity"?), and all of them are bullshit.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 28, 2010, 11:11:08 am
I'm not ignoring him. If you think that, then that's probably because you're not sitting here with me, looking at every post he makes.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE@Lone Wolf: While I initially thought ToonyMan was scum (and he has exhibited a lot of scumlike behavior) I now believe that Leafsnail is scummier, as per my above analysis. Toony isn't subtle enough to be acting like scum as I first believed. Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read, and I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.THIS POST SAYS THAT LONEWOLF IS TOWN AND THAT I AM MANIPULATING HIM
THERE IS NO QUESTION OF THIS FACT
EVERY TIME YOU DENY IT YOU'RE MAKING YOURSELF MORE OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH A FUCKING BRAIN
Show me exactly where I ever said that Lone Wolf was town.
Dude, you're just calling me names and saying my argument is wrong and should be dismissed offhand. Desperate ploy, my friend.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2010, 11:25:24 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 28, 2010, 11:31:00 am
JanusTwoFace - What do you think of a Jokerman/Toonyman/Pandarsenic scumteam at this point?
I think that there's a good liklihood that Pandarsenic is scum that's trying to active lurk. Jokerman, I not sure if he's scum or if he's just very angry town. ToonyMan feels off, could be scum. He's just being too quiet for my tastes.
"Hi, my name is Boxxyman-EXE, and I" *clip* "do" *clip* "drugs."
*Cue remix*
"Also I don't want to attract the ire of the players who seem like the most likely candidates to change their votes to me, so I'll try to draw attention to anyone who isn't posting right the hell now."
It is a problem though.
- Ottofar hasn't posted at all.
- I'm posting more but I'll admit I tend to post less often and longer.
- Solifuge was posting more but seems to have wondered off again.
- You're not posting anything terribly useful, mostly just small comments on the situation.
Janus: I'm mostly posting from my phone, since I work a fair amount more often, but another part is that I don't have a whole lot to say at the moment.
Leafsnail isn't posting much of an argument, so I figured I'd vote him. Usually, I like his readings of people, but this time I dislike them.
That at least explains the quieter aspect at least.
Personally, I'm torn between someone actually found scum or just seeing two town loudly bashing at each other while the scum lurk.
You think Leafsnail is scum, what about Jokerman? If either is lynched and flips scum, what would it mean to you? If they flip town?
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 28, 2010, 11:34:55 am
Personally, I'm torn between someone actually found scum or just seeing two town loudly bashing at each other while the scum lurk.
This is what I'm trying to say. There's an uncomfortably large percentage of players not posting, and it's making me edgier and edgier. I'm worried that there's the infinitely minute chance that Leafsnail might be town and I'm just bashing him while the scum sit in their scumchat and laugh about it. I feel like maybe we're doing their work for them.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 11:37:03 am
Show me exactly where I ever said that Lone Wolf was town.
Quote
Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read, and I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched
Quote
Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read, and I think that he's taking advantage of your attack
Quote
I think that he's taking advantage of your attackAgain, anyone who doesn't see this as addressing someone you think is town aligned is retarded. You're warning him that he should watch out for my taking advantage of him. IF YOU THINK HE'S SCUM WHY ARE YOU WARNING HIM ABOUT A BUDDY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HIM
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
I'm not ignoring him. If you think that, then that's probably because you're not sitting here with me, looking at every post he makes.Hehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehheehehehhehehe.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
Unlike you, when I make a move I make an effort to be transparent with my reasoning, so that I don't seem like scum.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
If you think that, then that's probably because you're not sitting here with me, looking at every post he makes.
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
I make an effort to be transparent with my reasoning
Quote from: ToonyMan
Leafsnail, you keep making crap up and expect people not to notice? You can't keep doing this without being scum, scum. GO die.Give an example. Oh wait, you can't, because THERE AREN'T ANY.
I'm covering my ass for when Leafsnail flips town.Yeah, I know.
This is what I'm trying to say. There's an uncomfortably large percentage of players not posting, and it's making me edgier and edgier. I'm worried that there's the infinitely minute chance that Leafsnail might be town and I'm just bashing him while the scum sit in their scumchat and laugh about it. I feel like maybe we're doing their work for them.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2010, 11:39:04 am
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 11:39:52 am
Why don't you give an example?An example of...?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2010, 11:40:24 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 28, 2010, 11:44:57 am
...I'm covering my ass for when Leafsnail flips town.Yeah, I know.
This is what I'm trying to say. There's an uncomfortably large percentage of players not posting, and it's making me edgier and edgier. I'm worried that there's the infinitely minute chance that Leafsnail might be town and I'm just bashing him while the scum sit in their scumchat and laugh about it. I feel like maybe we're doing their work for them.
...
Why is it the only time you can actually figure out how to use the quote button is when you are changing someone's quote?
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 28, 2010, 11:48:56 am
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 11:55:39 am
Toonyman's right, leaf. He coughed up examples in his defense. I believe Joker's making a valid point. Let's see some examples in yours.Show me where. And tell me where I need to give examples, because I have backed up my points.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 11:56:20 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 28, 2010, 12:33:47 pm
Jokerman is performing the worst, most painfully blatant chainsaw defense I have ever seen in the history of ever.
No, seriously.
Look at him.
LOOK AT HIM.
Good god.
(Going to classes, after missing 80% of my first class of the day or more. <_<)
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 28, 2010, 12:39:40 pm
All you've done all game is call me scum with NO EVIDENCE when you're not lurking like a mofo. You're not even making a new argument, just taking what Leafy is saying and literally restating it.
GTFO lurking scum.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 28, 2010, 12:41:39 pm
(Yeaaah I missed the bus to campus...)
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2010, 12:46:06 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 28, 2010, 12:47:03 pm
"Okay, can you give a reason?"
"LOL UR SCUM DIE"
"...then my vote is staying."
Yeah, such an OMGUS. That's an OMGUS as soon as you retroactively provide a reason that your vote wasn't bullshit in itself.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 28, 2010, 12:50:29 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1288659#msg1288659
And originally:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1280493#msg1280493
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1280774#msg1280774
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1280907#msg1280907
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1281045#msg1281045
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1281057#msg1281057
Jokerman-EXE is a pretty cool guy, eh looks for threats to the scumteam openly and doesn't afraid of anything.
Post by: Solifuge on May 28, 2010, 01:00:07 pm
But seriously, this is getting increasingly aggrivated, and making me progressively less inclined to actually want to get caught up on current events, and more inclined to want to bash in the head of Jokerman, Pandar, or myself, just to end the bickering.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 28, 2010, 01:23:52 pm
Attack Jokerman for bringing some attention to lurkers. Even if he's scum, it's something that we need to pay attention to.
And the way of doing it takes a fair bit to figure out what you were even saying.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1280493#msg1280493
Really? You're going to count this one? The entire post is a quote from Jokerman without any comment from yourself.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1280774#msg1280774
You say you're voting Jokerman for 'asking stupid unrelated questions' without clarifying which and which are particularly scummy. Or are you actually calling him scum? Because I don't see the accusation anywhere.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1280907#msg1280907
Yes, he's rolefishing. Webadict was kind of obvious about it though and he (webadict) has done the same thing without actually being a Vig before.
The second half still doesn't make any sense, except the last part: 'die scum' The rest... who knows?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1281045#msg1281045
You repeat your anger at rolefishing and quote (with bold) Jokerman's post without any actual explination.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57352.msg1281057#msg1281057
Again on the Vig rolefishing.
Given your own evidence of not lurking your contributions to this game have been blaming Jokerman for rolefishing (repeatedly), quoting posts (without explination), and attacking Jokerman for poking lurkers.
Sure, you're posting, but none of it's useful. If that's not active lurking, I'm not sure what is.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2010, 05:23:38 pm
Actually you were voting me before you voted Leafy because you're OMGUSing, panicky scum who can't take pressure. Good try, though!Yeah, except I'm really not seeing the Jokerman scum here, so how you can say there's a scumteam between ToonyMan and Jokerman is dumb.
(Yeaaah I missed the bus to campus...)
Leafsnail
ToonyMan
Ottofar
Solifuge
Pandarsenic
Org
This would also be my list of suspects from most scummy to least.
Leafsnail is pretty level-headed, but he's bent on going after Jokerman-EXE because Jokerman... is blah-blah-blah? I'm not quite sure, but even were that true, if I were Leafsnail, I'd head toward that original suspect ToonyMan who is sidelining and trying to remain out of that spotlight.
Janus: Jokerman-EXE will probably come up Town and Leafsnail will come up Dopp (Exterminator Leafsnail would not be in this situation.)
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 05:28:57 pm
Yeah, except I'm really not seeing the Jokerman scum here, so how you can say there's a scumteam between ToonyMan and Jokerman is dumb.How can you NOT see it? You can pretty much take any post of his at random and find more bullshit there than you usually get in an entire game.
Leafsnail is pretty level-headed, but he's bent on going after Jokerman-EXE because Jokerman... is blah-blah-blah? I'm not quite sure, but even were that true, if I were Leafsnail, I'd head toward that original suspect ToonyMan who is sidelining and trying to remain out of that spotlight.I can assure you I'm NOT level headed while people are being this stupid. And I am still voting for ToonyMan, and I still want his lynch today. Jokerman wouldn't chainsaw defend him so hard unless he was some kind of powerrole.
Janus: Jokerman-EXE will probably come up Town and Leafsnail will come up Dopp (Exterminator Leafsnail would not be in this situation.)No backup, no reasoning, no comments on the bullshit Jokerman keeps pulling.
You may be town, but you really aren't trying.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2010, 05:46:22 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 28, 2010, 05:51:42 pm
So, what? You want Jokerman to roleclaim a PR to save ToonyMan? Is that why you keep pushing Jokerman while voting ToonyMan at the same time?The hell are you talking about?
I'm saying ToonyMan is an important dopp PR. Possibly an AD or a Warden.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2010, 06:11:47 pm
Ah, I see. So you think Jokerman is trying to save ToonyMan?So, what? You want Jokerman to roleclaim a PR to save ToonyMan? Is that why you keep pushing Jokerman while voting ToonyMan at the same time?The hell are you talking about?
I'm saying ToonyMan is an important dopp PR. Possibly an AD or a Warden.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 28, 2010, 06:26:28 pm
Unvote Jokerman-EXE, vote ToonyMan.
Let's see if he flips his shit over this.
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 28, 2010, 07:09:39 pm
ToonyMan, if you flip town, I will personally see LeafSnail lynched.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2010, 07:11:33 pm
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2010, 07:21:28 pm
Hehehe.Why is that funny?
Post by: Toaster on May 28, 2010, 11:15:18 pm
Leafsnail, you never answered this question:
Jokerman andLeafsnail: If ToonyMan was lynched and flipped scum, would you two be more, less, or equally suspicious of the other?
This all depends on the night, but here's my general thoughts.
Toony is lynched and flips town:
Leaf is highly suspicious and has a lot to answer for. Toony, cleared of chainsaw defense charges, still bears scrutiny but not as hard.
Toony is lynched and flips scum:
Leaf could have been bussing him, but I'd be awfully busy trying to lynch Joker to press him on that one, at least on the next day.
Either way:
Otto's got some talking to do. Pandar is scratching my Exty itch, but I'm more concerned about dopps right now.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 28, 2010, 11:22:30 pm
Pandar is scratching my Exty itch
Don't even joke about that D:<
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 28, 2010, 11:23:25 pm
KILL BOTPandar is scratching my Exty itch
Don't even joke about that D:<
*my death post*
Post by: Leafsnail on May 29, 2010, 06:15:50 am
Fake laugh of panic, as he sees his scheme crumble in front of him?Huh... I remember answering this question, but I seemed to forgot to post it.
Leafsnail, you never answered this question:Jokerman andLeafsnail: If ToonyMan was lynched and flipped scum, would you two be more, less, or equally suspicious of the other?
If ToonyMan is lynched and flips scum, Jokerman-EXE IS scum. Period.
Quote from: Toaster
Toony is lynched and flips town:Well, being dead does tend to clear you of chainsaw charges :/.
Leaf is highly suspicious and has a lot to answer for. Toony, cleared of chainsaw defense charges, still bears scrutiny but not as hard.
If you think I have a lot to answer for, go ahead and say it now. Noone's taken me up on this when asked to give me examples of where I'm attacking scummily yet.
Unvote LeafSnailWhile ToonyMan will flip scum, would you mind explaining what would make me scum if he flipped town? I don't like the way you're lining up a chainlynch at all.
ToonyMan, if you flip town, I will personally see LeafSnail lynched.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on May 29, 2010, 10:49:55 am
While ToonyMan will flip scum, would you mind explaining what would make me scum if he flipped town? I don't like the way you're lining up a chainlynch at all.
You serious bro?
If ToonyMan is lynched and flips scum, Jokerman-EXE IS scum. Period.
You're doing the exact same thing. Christ, do they come any scummier? You're contradicting yourself, you've had a shoddy offense up til now that I've been repeatedly trying to show you...come on, how can no one see this?
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2010, 11:29:21 am
Post by: Org on May 29, 2010, 11:49:34 am
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2010, 12:05:18 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 29, 2010, 12:36:07 pm
Exactly. Leafsnail needs to be lynched. I saw that exact chainlynch thing before your post plus his argument has deteriorated to a "not me, him" thing. For few reasons.It hasn't.
You keep belittling my case like this without any backup, and it's starting to seriously piss me off.
Post by: Org on May 29, 2010, 12:47:14 pm
Excuses.No.
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2010, 12:52:36 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 29, 2010, 12:57:21 pm
Leafsnail: So, you weren't setting up a chainlynch there?If a chainlynch involves "If this person is scum, lynch this person" it's not a proper chainlynch.
Since it involves lynching scum.
If it's "If this person is town, lynch this person" it is.
Since it can get two mislynches for scum.
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2010, 01:22:06 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 30, 2010, 02:01:38 pm
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 30, 2010, 03:15:55 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 31, 2010, 09:33:38 am
Org, congradulations on your brother's graduation. That was days ago post something worthwhile.
Ottofar. You should be back by now, what's your take on the situation (Jokerman/TooneyMan and Leafsnail)?
Post by: Org on May 31, 2010, 09:40:12 am
I cant remember who I was going for.
TOonyman was all weird, as I pointed out. He usually doesnt post paragraphs.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 31, 2010, 01:20:55 pm
Lonewolf I: ToonyMan
Jokerman-EXE : Solifuge
Leafsnail : Jokerman-EXE, webadict
ToonyMan : Lonewolf I, Leafsnail, Pandarsenic, Toaster
webadict : Org
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. Might be a bit earlier, since we had a long extension and I have a movie to go to later today.
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2010, 01:26:40 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on May 31, 2010, 01:30:02 pm
Post by: Ottofar on May 31, 2010, 02:46:48 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 31, 2010, 02:55:46 pm
Post by: Ottofar on May 31, 2010, 03:19:51 pm
I can't do it today.
Post by: Pandarsenic on May 31, 2010, 04:33:15 pm
So Pandarsenic, no comment on how even the posts you point out to defend yourself are active lurking? And that you seem to be happily following webadict and Leafsnail around since then without actually adding anything to the conversion?
I prefer not to comment on delusional fantasies.
And even if I was willing to comment on delusional fantasies, "While I experience my own" is a bad time to do it.
I need to sleep.
Yes, it's 2:32 my time.
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2010, 05:33:17 pm
But, I'll unvote and vote ToonyMan. If only because I know something bad will happen otherwise.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 31, 2010, 07:31:13 pm
Lonewolf I: ToonyMan
Jokerman-EXE : Solifuge
Leafsnail : Jokerman-EXE
ToonyMan : Lonewolf I, Leafsnail, Pandarsenic, Toaster, webadict
webadict : Org
Webadict grabs up a shotgun and unloads upon a startled ToonyMan. As you look at him in shock he shrugs. 'What? We voted that he was gonna die. Why wait to let him try and escape?"
Since no one has a good answer to that, you check out the body. ToonyMan was obviously a doppelganger, since his body is no longer human. Checking it over, you find strange light-studded metal objects attached to his head. It seems he was some sort of Mad Scientist. Checking out his lab, you find that he had perfected an Advanced Mind Shield. Fascinating. Pity the prototype seems to be wired into his head.
Pondering this development, you head back to your rooms.
Night 2 has fallen. Send in your actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on June 02, 2010, 05:21:29 pm
You convene again the next day. Org and Toaster are not among you, however.
Once again you head out to see what might have happened to them.
At Org's house you find the door unlocked and a large smear of blood in the kitchen. No sign of him otherwise, however. Searching the house doens't turn up anything of much importance, though. Seems that Org was just a normal guy disenchanted with the government and recruited to bolster the numbers of the Milita. With nothing more to learn here, you head off to Toaster's house to see what happened to him.
Once there you need to force the lock open. A quick search of the house shows that Toaster seems to have been assassinated. His body lies slumped over his bathroom counter, toothbrush on the floor and a tube of toothpaste lying on the counter next to him. A hole seems to have been burned clear through his head. A similar hole is found melted through the window behind him. Searching his house turns up books on Enchantment. It seems he was being trained to use his abilities to help sway the minds of the common man against the government. Pity...he'll never have the chance now.
Heading back to the main room you debate the events of last night, and who among you is still a doppelganger.
Day 3 has started. It will go until ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 02, 2010, 05:23:42 pm
Post by: webadict on June 02, 2010, 06:00:54 pm
Pandarsenic
Leafsnail
JanusTwoFace
Jokerman-EXE
webadict
LoneWolf I
Solifuge
Ottofar
Hmph. We've got 8p right now. With 3 scum, I think it's fair to call this mylo or possibly lylo. Shall we have a massclaim?
Post by: Leafsnail on June 02, 2010, 06:09:09 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 02, 2010, 07:07:17 pm
Post by: Lonewolf I on June 02, 2010, 07:25:14 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 02, 2010, 07:48:27 pm
Post by: webadict on June 02, 2010, 08:08:02 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 02, 2010, 11:53:47 pm
Also: Ottofar, stop lurking.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 12:16:53 am
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 03, 2010, 12:23:29 am
I'm the Vig. I was going to go after Leafy because I was really sure he was scum, but someone blocked me last night. Who would that have been?
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 12:45:47 am
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2010, 05:58:30 am
I am an agent. Night one I investigated Toaster, and got that he was human. That's why I backed away from him at the start of D2 (I also sent him a message about it eventually, if we have a medium they should be able to confirm that).
Ok, might as well tell you this in case I die today or tonight.
I am an FBI agent. I scanned you last night, and you came up human (so I should be able to trust you with my identity). Don't tell anyone this now, but if I die, feel free to quote this pm on the thread to prove your innocence and avoid wasting my inspection.
I'm not asking you to trust me, but in any case, I'll probably be dead and confirmed soon, so hold on until then.
On night 2 I investigated Jokerman... and he came up human. I think this is the "Leafsnail will never inspect scum" curse >.<. I did send him (and Toaster by accident... didn't check to see if he was dead first... doh) a message this morning, although it might be better for him to show everyone that.
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2010, 09:13:22 am
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 03, 2010, 09:56:47 am
Well, I'd just like to inform the two of you I've got town results on both of you. It's gonna be hard to stop Jokerman-EXE from being lynched today, however, considering what I said about him yesterday... I feel pretty stupid for fucking up my read on him so badly :/.
I believe it's Pandar's turn to claim.
Post by: Solifuge on June 03, 2010, 10:07:02 am
I do believe we've yet to hear from Pandarsenic, Ottofar, LoneWolf I, and JanusTwoFace (delaying for Ottofar?). Hop to it now!
P.S. Meph, you might want to change the name of the thread; I was confused as to how people could be posting if it was still Night.
Fake-Edit: Thankee Meph.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2010, 10:26:32 am
:/
Post by: Lonewolf I on June 03, 2010, 10:35:44 am
Post by: Solifuge on June 03, 2010, 11:11:05 am
Why in the hell did you choose sentry guns?
:/
They take down 1 Dopple or Extie that attacks, and dont use a Guardian or War Vet to do so, nor do I die. It's like having a perma-Vengeful Guardian in a can, at no cost to Town.
Never liked Day-Vig powers ala Assasin Bot. Shooting someone in the middle of the day can turn a MYLO into a LYLO, and a LYLO into a loss.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 11:20:02 am
I'm a Detective.
Also a Kook:
Jokerman-EXE: Do you smell what the Rock is cooking?
(That is, what's your opinion of Web's accusation of Ottofar and Diablous and criptfeind trippin' ballz trying to defend him?)
Turned up Org as Vanilla:
How.A pretty vanilla-flavored post as far as posts go but it does bring up a good question for Leafsnail. Please remind us? You might have something worth following up on, yes?
Then Wuba as a Psychic Warden:
I'll go after Wuba.
I bet Wubadict has something to say about that.
I have a suspicion NOBODY would have caught my crumbs unless I spelled it out through a medium though.
I wonder if Jokermon is a Dopp Leader or Combat Camo + Adv. Holo Exty or something, because seeing his behavior makes it REALLY hard to believe he's town. >_<;
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2010, 11:24:09 am
They take down 1 Dopple or Extie that attacks, and dont use a Guardian or War Vet to do so, nor do I die. It's like having a perma-Vengeful Guardian in a can, at no cost to Town.Well, let's say any investigative role tried to scan you... or someone tried to protect you. What happens then?
Never liked Day-Vig powers ala Assasin Bot. Shooting someone in the middle of the day can turn a MYLO into a LYLO, and a LYLO into a loss.
And dayvig gives the town an extra lynch at lylo, as well as roleconfirming you.
And Pandar - I'd have to agree with you about Jokerman's behaviour, but he's almost certainly a vig (unless someone else claims the kill on Jim n1... and by coincidence they were stopped last night by something else) AND he came up town. You can't be a dopp leader and a vig :/.
Also, I like your crumb on webadict :P. Although your crumb on Org looks like it could've been about me just as easily.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 11:28:09 am
Agreed on Assassin Bot > Gentry Gun. It would've been stupid if we'd lost Leafsnail or me to that.
Kooks claiming day 1 ends pretty badly, more often than not. Everyone starts accusing them of pulling a gambit and like-as-not they end up eating shit for their trouble. I compromised and made sure I set my softclaim/crumb there so I could call back to it if somebody claimed having investigated me.
Post by: Solifuge on June 03, 2010, 11:34:12 am
Also Leaf, you've got a good point on the self-confirming thing with an Assasin Bot. It's a pretty solid option for late game, though not so much early on.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2010, 11:37:12 am
Well, who still needs to claim? By my count it's Ottofar and JanusTwoFace.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 11:39:56 am
All of which leads to me having no idea why Jokerman's been acting as badly as he has.
Post by: Ottofar on June 03, 2010, 11:53:12 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 11:54:38 am
Post by: Mephansteras on June 03, 2010, 11:56:13 am
The whiteboard is empty
Day 3 ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: Ottofar on June 03, 2010, 11:58:26 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 11:58:57 am
Post by: Ottofar on June 03, 2010, 12:05:23 pm
Post by: Solifuge on June 03, 2010, 12:21:03 pm
Also, Jokerman, though I can assume who it was, you didn't explicitly say who you targeted on N1. Who was it?
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2010, 12:24:36 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 03, 2010, 12:45:59 pm
You are correct. Lonewolf has the other part saying I followed Pandarsenic Night 2. So I can confirm that part of his story at least.
I'm still suspicious of Pandarsenic for active lurking but Ottofar looks far worse. It could be a new player mistake though. For future reference Ottofar, you should almost always use your action. If you guess correctly, there's one less scum. If you guess incorrectly, nothing happens. If you none, we gain nothing.
Also you're not even active lurking but actually lurking. Not shiny. Ottofar.
Who do you think are scum, with reasoning? If you're town it's helpful information. If you're scum it can still be helpful in what you don't say or how you say it.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2010, 12:56:30 pm
Jokerman-EXE: Vigilante. Killed Jim night one (?). Killed Leafsnail night two (blocked).
Leafsnail: Agent. Inspected Toaster night one (human). Inspected Jokerman-EXE night two (human).
webadict: Psychic Warden. Blocked Jim night one. Blocked Jokerman-EXE night two.
Solifuge: Military Scientist (sentry guns). Sentry guns unused.
Lonewolf I: Intelligence Scientist Kook (surveillance system). No results.
Pandarsenic: Detective Kook. Inspected Org night one (no role). Inspected webadict night two (psychic warden).
Ottofar: Vengeful Guard. Protected ToonyMan night one. Did nothing night two.
JanusTwoFace: Journalist. Tracked Org night one (did nothing). Tracked Pandarsenic night two (targetted webadict).
Now, I have a possible suggestion - to eliminate a killsource and a scum, it'd probably be best to aim for players who COULD be an exterminator today. The field is actually narrower than you'd think.
Jokerman claimed a vigkill on a night there was also an Exty kill, so he cannot be the exterminator.
webadict performed a block last night and had his role confirmed by Pandarsenic, so he cannot be the exterminator.
Pandarsenic was seen visiting someone other than Toaster last night, so he cannot be the exterminator.
JanusTwoFace's alibi is a bit shakier, but if webadict received a pm from him before the MC, he must've tracked Pandarsenic last night rather than killing, so he couldn't be the exterminator.
Lonewolf I could be an exterminator, but I REALLY don't see an exterminator claiming kook. It'd be a big risk, and you'd still be screwed if someone inspected you.
This leaves me, Solifuge and Ottofar. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Solifuge and Ottofar are two of our last three scum.
Rereading, I am getting some very odd stuff from Solifuge which REALLY doesn't match his meta, in addition to his strange role choice. While erratic behaviour from Solifuge is hardly surprising, his lurking and passivity this game are things I haven't seen from him before. Looking back, he's only posted occasionally, and when he does, he posts little of substance. There is also one particularly jarring contradiction I see in his posting:
Judging by this response, paired with the bits through this debate, I'd posit that Jokerman-Exe is Scum, with the reasonable possibly of being the Exterminator/Operative. There wasn't anything in the nightkill analysis that was remotely confusing, and feigning ignorance about your role and how it works is a shoddy way to deflect attention.
Also Org, you are REALLY obsessing over the Exterminator thing... into the realm of unhelpfulness. Remember that, for lynching, Scum are priority #1, and Exterminators priority #2. A 3rd-Party that is against both you and your enemy is still half an ally. We kill the Exterminator when their threat outweighs their usefulness... and more often they kill themselves on a War Veteran, Vengeful Guardian, or get Dopple-Snacked.So he accuses Jokerman of being the exty... and then later chides Org for being too focused on the exty, who, in any case, we shouldn't be trying to find? Also note that he only FoS's ToonyMan in that post, and leaves his vote lazily lying on Jokerman for the rest of the day... without even commenting on him or ToonyMan anymore. Not good, Solifuge.
Post by: Solifuge on June 03, 2010, 02:26:29 pm
Also, a queary for you, Leafy; when we've got 2 Scum, 1 SK, and 5 Town, why exactly do you want to go hunting for the Exterminator? As I told Org in the quote you referenced, an enemy of the enemy is still half an ally; as long as the Exterminator is alive the Dopples don't win just by outnumbering town. They both need to kill one another first, and that is an advantage for the town.
It's more strategically sound to look for Scum rather than a SK. Speaking of which, I'm pretty certain Ottofar is a Dopple, most likely a Dopple Vengeful Guardian. Note that he guarded a confirmed Doppleganger on N1, and I wager guarded his other Dopple-buddy last night. This would be why he "forgot to guard anyone last night, hurp durp," lest he make the pattern obvious, and give away his remaining teammate.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 03:01:54 pm
Post by: Solifuge on June 03, 2010, 03:19:03 pm
I think we should make Ottofar guard Solifuge and try to pick out a third kill.
This idea is hillarious, provides a great way to off a scummy player with panache, and I'm sorely tempted to go with it... however this wouldn't clear up anything if he claimed to guard me, but actually didn't.
Post by: Solifuge on June 03, 2010, 03:35:16 pm
We can have the Journalist follow Ottofer tonight, and have him "guard" me. We can make sure he actually targets me, and hits the Sentries. At the end of the night, you have either me or him cleared. On top of that, if he is a Town Vengeful Guardian, he would be preventing a Dopple from being able to sneak a second kill in on me after the Sentries are expended.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2010, 03:48:37 pm
I've never done 3 Mafias simultaneously, and I find I've got a lot less time to devote to investigation and reading, especially when the thread gets clogged by 2-3 pages of substanceless, retarded arguing. Pardon, but I'm not so inclined to wade through that crap, and much prefer the sort of sensible scumhunting we're doing today.This doesn't explain why you left your vote on Jokerman for "feigning ignorance" all day while only FoSing ToonyMan. What posts you did make were pretty active-lurky.
Also, a queary for you, Leafy; when we've got 2 Scum, 1 SK, and 5 Town, why exactly do you want to go hunting for the Exterminator? As I told Org in the quote you referenced, an enemy of the enemy is still half an ally; as long as the Exterminator is alive the Dopples don't win just by outnumbering town. They both need to kill one another first, and that is an advantage for the town.Post massclaim, I feel that both scumgroups are more likely to attack those who are clear/ semi clear/ have good roles. There are two reasons to go for an exterminator.
1. A lot of people cannot be the exterminator due to having role actions confirmed.
2. Removing the Exterminator will remove an anti-town kill. In addition, the exty may have a mindshield, and would be harder to eliminate at night.
I'd also like to point out your vote remained on someone you thought was an SK throughout yesterday.
It's more strategically sound to look for Scum rather than a SK. Speaking of which, I'm pretty certain Ottofar is a Dopple, most likely a Dopple Vengeful Guardian. Note that he guarded a confirmed Doppleganger on N1, and I wager guarded his other Dopple-buddy last night. This would be why he "forgot to guard anyone last night, hurp durp," lest he make the pattern obvious, and give away his remaining teammate.The SK is also classified as scum...
On the other hand, Ottofar is, as you say, likely to be a dopp. I'd nominate him for a vigkill tonight.
I think we should make Ottofar guard Solifuge and try to pick out a third kill.Doesn't work. If Solifuge is scum he can just kill Ottofar. If Ottofar is scum he can avoid targetting Solifuge.
Huh... actually, that's not a bad plan on second thought.If the exty or dopps hit Ottofar, this plan comes to nothing.
We can have the Journalist follow Ottofer tonight, and have him "guard" me. We can make sure he actually targets me, and hits the Sentries. At the end of the night, you have either me or him cleared. On top of that, if he is a Town Vengeful Guardian, he would be preventing a Dopple from being able to sneak a second kill in on me after the Sentries are expended.
Post by: Solifuge on June 03, 2010, 04:08:54 pm
If the exty or dopps hit Ottofar, this plan comes to nothing.
Not true at all. You can tell if conventional bullets (Sentry Gun/Vigilanti) killed him, or if it was lasers (Alien) or teeth/claws (Dopple) instead, which gives you a pretty good picture of what happened. If conventional guns killed Ottofer, my claim is solid. If an Exterminator killed Ottofer, then you have cause to lynch me. If it was a Dopple, then you'd have effectively forced the Dopples to blow their nightkill on a questionable player rather than a confirmed townie... and a player that was going to die from a counterkill on top of that, effectively nullifying their kill. No matter what happens, town benefits.
If you're concerned about the possibilioty of Combat Camo, if the Exterminator had it, they'd have been disguising their kills up until this point. An Alien doesn't benefit from letting their existance be known.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2010, 04:48:13 pm
On the other hand, Exty could just kill Ottofar for WIFOM. So again... that leaves us no better off :/. In addition, in the "Solifuge is clear" scenario we lose a townie, something I'm not sure we can afford to do at this stage (4 kills in the night... one on a townie, two anti-town aimed... ugh).If the exty or dopps hit Ottofar, this plan comes to nothing.
Not true at all. You can tell if conventional bullets (Sentry Gun/Vigilanti) killed him, or if it was lasers (Alien) or teeth/claws (Dopple) instead, which gives you a pretty good picture of what happened. If conventional guns killed Ottofer, my claim is solid. If an Exterminator killed Ottofer, then you have cause to lynch me. If it was a Dopple, then you'd have effectively forced the Dopples to blow their nightkill on a questionable player rather than a confirmed townie... and a player that was going to die from a counterkill on top of that, effectively nullifying their kill. No matter what happens, town benefits.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 03, 2010, 05:01:18 pm
PFP.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 03, 2010, 07:24:25 pm
Ottofar : JanusTwoFace, Solifuge
Solifuge : Leafsnail
Day 3 Ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2010, 09:00:15 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 03, 2010, 10:39:18 pm
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 02:28:05 am
On the other hand, Exty could just kill Ottofar for WIFOM. So again... that leaves us no better off :/. In addition, in the "Solifuge is clear" scenario we lose a townie, something I'm not sure we can afford to do at this stage (4 kills in the night... one on a townie, two anti-town aimed... ugh).
I'm afraid I don't follow you. If the Dopples or Exterminator targets Ottofar because they're that devoted to causing a minor WIFOM, it still forces them to use up a Nightkill that would otherwise be used on a player who -IS- cleared. Also, in the "scenario where Solifuge is clear" and Ottofar complies, we lose an unconfirmed scummy and the WIFOM surrounding the yet-unconfirmed roleclaims... and unless you're privy to information we're not, Leafsnail, it wouldn't make him a guaranteed Townie either.
If you'd bothered to read anything I'd written, you'd see that he's most likely a Dopple Guardian, judging by the fact that he guarded another confirmed scum on N1, and "forgot to guard someone" on N2 (or was he saying that he forgot who he guarded?), which is a convenient lie to use if he's been guarding his remaining Dopple teammate, and wants to conceal their ID.
For all your claims of me "active lurking", you're defending the far greater lack of activity on Ottofar's behalf, and giving him the Org Pass. Why are you defending him, pardoning huge scumtells, and then trying to lead a lynch on someone who you don't even think is a Doppleganger? Serious WTF there, Leafy.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 04, 2010, 05:13:14 am
I'm afraid I don't follow you. If the Dopples or Exterminator targets Ottofar because they're that devoted to causing a minor WIFOM, it still forces them to use up a Nightkill that would otherwise be used on a player who -IS- cleared. Also, in the "scenario where Solifuge is clear" and Ottofar complies, we lose an unconfirmed scummy and the WIFOM surrounding the yet-unconfirmed roleclaims... and unless you're privy to information we're not, Leafsnail, it wouldn't make him a guaranteed Townie either.If he complies and dies, then yes, he'd be a townie. A doppelganger wouldn't agree to commit suicide... they'd prefer to be lynched.
If you'd bothered to read anything I'd written, you'd see that he's most likely a Dopple Guardian, judging by the fact that he guarded another confirmed scum on N1, and "forgot to guard someone" on N2 (or was he saying that he forgot who he guarded?), which is a convenient lie to use if he's been guarding his remaining Dopple teammate, and wants to conceal their ID.Which is very likely to be true. On the other hand, it'd be safer to deal with him tonight, for reasons I'll explain below.
For all your claims of me "active lurking", you're defending the far greater lack of activity on Ottofar's behalf, and giving him the Org Pass. Why are you defending him, pardoning huge scumtells, and then trying to lead a lynch on someone who you don't even think is a Doppleganger? Serious WTF there, Leafy.It's because I think you're the exterminator. Indeed, you haven't denied any of the claims I've made against you; you've just tried to deflect them onto Ottofar and form a vague plan that avoids you getting lynched. Heck, you've barely even denied that you are scum. Why does the exterminator need to die? Basically, removing him removes an anti-town killsource, and he can potentially evade almost all of the PRs we have.
For instance, he could have a holoform modulator (evades the agent and detective) a personal shield (evades the vig) or an advanced mind shield (evades the psychic warden). If we eliminate the exterminator today, I think we can quite easily mow down both dopps in the night (I still strongly feel webadict is town, and he can stop a dopp... and we have a vig, who can perform an extra kill... and I can clear/ condemn someone).
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 07:54:47 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 08:59:09 am
Leafsnail: I also think Solifuge is the Exterminator and that Ottofar is a Dopp. We can have Jokerman kill Pandarsenic (Who I believe is the last Dopp, since Org coming up no role, he assumed Vanilla Townie and not anything Dopp related) or Ottofar and I can block the other probably kill Ottofar, since if Ottofar is Town, he'll still protect Jokerman and you scan whoever and hope to God we killed and blocked correctly. Janus can watch you though, but I don't really care what you choose.
Uh, in case you didn't notice, I hadn't assumed Org was vanilla TOWNIE until he was, y'know, dead. I can check any non-volatile claims (like the Surveillance Mad Scientist) if you don't block me.
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 09:01:19 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 09:37:53 am
List stolen from Leafmobile and edited to be more informative. Confirmation refers only to role, not alignment
Jokerman-EXE: Vigilante - n1 Jim Groovester, n2 Leafsnail [blocked]. confirmed. cannot be exterminator. almost certainly human if Leafsnail is.
Leafsnail: Agent - n1 Toaster (human), n2 Jokerman-EXE (human). unconfirmed
webadict: Psychic Warden - n1 Jim Groovester, n2 Jokerman-EXE. confirmed
Solifuge: Military Scientist with Sentry Guns. Unactivated. unconfirmed
Lonewolf I: Intelligence Scientist Kook with Surveillance System. Unactivated. unconfirmed
Pandarsenic: Detective Kook. n1 Org (no role), n2 wubadict (psychic warden, confirmation). semi-confirmed, totally so if JanusTwoFace's PM was sent to Wubadict before Pandaface's claim. see below. cannot be exterminator
Ottofar: Vengeful Guard. n1 ToonyMan, n2 none'd unconfirmed, !none is highly suspicious
JanusTwoFace: Journalist. n1 Org 0(none'd), n2 Pandarsenic (-> webadict). semi-confirmed, but if Wubadict got his PM before my claim and they aren't the scumteam, he is roleconfirmed and cannot be the exterminator. see below
Major possibilities in my mind:
Ottofar is the last Doppelganger, and he said he none'd last night because he didn't realize that saying he protected someone and totally didn't do the Doppkill would be a better option than claiming he protected someone who didn't die and totally didn't do the Doppkill. This leaves Solifuge, Lonewolf I (unlikely), and Leafsnail (unlikely) as the candidates for Exterminator and any potential Operative.
Lonewolf I is the last Dopp, trying to screen himself against the inspection, leaving one of Soli and Leafy (unlikely) as the Exty.
Soli is the last Dopp, trying to deter Leaf's inspection with his claim, leaving Lonewolf I (unlikely) and Leafy (... also unlikely....) as the exty. This is the least likely of those three scenarios.
Noteworthy Impossibilities:
Leafsnail as a Doppelganger Partner to anyone - one Dopp still standing
Janus-Wuba scumteam lying about the PM - to do this they would have to be Exterminator and Operative, which I confirmed cannot be the case because Wuba is a Psychic Warden.
Something I just had second thoughts about:
Org having been Adv. Doppelganger - though he did flip human townie, I scanned him that night and I'm pretty sure that I would've seen SOME role. Er. Would I? Mephansteras, if a Detective scans an Advanced Doppelganger what result do they see?
A final note I just realized and am not editing the above parts over:
Because there's one Dopp left and a Doppkill last night (the smear-of-blood-remaining thing with Org) that means anyone whom we confirmed not to be the Exterminator, we also confirmed to not be a Doppelganger.
This means we've just made confirmed townies of Jokerman, me, Wubadict, and Janus, because all of us could not have performed either kill, correct?
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 10:03:53 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 10:14:26 am
Four pods. I thought there were three. My baaaaad.
Exterminator is still confined to those three, though, and I remain pretty confident that Ottofar is a Dopp and Soli is an exty (and therefore mindshield'd)
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 10:15:05 am
Anyway, I never denied that I was the Alien Exterminator, because in fact am. I was trying to be reasonable, and save my trump card for tomorrow, but I suppose this makes it more interesting.
For my actual roleclaim, as I said, I'm an Exterminator, and my techs are a Deadman Bomb, and a Double-Use Scanner that can be used alongside my regular nightkill. I used the first one on Nuke9.13, the night he and I targetted the same Paranoid Veteran, allowing me to follow up with a kill. The flavor text for that night was amazing, and I'd highly suggest you read it once this is over.
Anyway, I have 1 Full-Scan remaining, as well as my regular nightkill, and if anyone nightkills me, they get autokilled too. Alternatively, if I'm lynched, I take out the last person to vote for me, plus a random player. 2 townie deaths plus my lynch would mean the town loses. In this instance, you can't lynch me.
And so, townspeople, I approach you with this offer. We both need Dopples dead, and you know I'm alligned against them. I'm also protected well enough that I take one of them down with me if I die. Accept an offer of truce, and we can do our best to plot against one another by ourselves... I'm sure you can think of a creative way around this dilemma.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 10:22:17 am
MODKILL TIEMS
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 04, 2010, 10:22:39 am
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 10:35:35 am
Spoiler: For Pandar/Mephansteras (click to show/hide)
Anyway Pandar, I invite you to come up with a creative way to arrange my demise. I'm not going to help you there though. :)
But seriously guys, lets get Ottofer already. You guys can go plot via PM or whatever. If you'd like, I've even got a Scan I'm willing to help root out the last dopple with. I'm pretty sure I've got my mark too.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 10:45:15 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 10:46:34 am
Spoiler: re the edit (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 11:12:00 am
I say we pick out the two doppelgangers and make Ottofar hammer Solifuge, then since either the vig or the Warden MUST still be alive after that, they deal with our last Dopp as appropriate.
Leafsnail pointed out the problem with this: as in the above fallacy with using "my sentry guns" to settle the WIFOM between Ottofar and I, Scum Ottofar would have no reason to comply with it. The only player who would agree to hammer me would be a Townie, and if a Townie is guaranteed as your first kill, you then have a 2/3 chance of losing, since the bomb will also take out an additional player at random.
Guess it depends on if you feel lucky, punk. Well, do you?
Hehe... I love when I manage to pull off something like this... especially when I still have an opportunity to gloat in game, from a position of semi-immunity, like some kind of mustache-twiddling villain.
Anyway, Extension please. I know it's harder to Dopple-Hunt, but I see a lot of you guys trying to manipulate the others into a strategy of your own devising. I have a feeling the other Dopple is not one of the obvious ones we think them to be. Remember, other any of the people "confirmed" by power-roles could very well be Dopples, since they had free reign to use abilities while their teammates killed.
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 11:23:02 am
In an interesting turn of events, the only players who would benefit from my lynch would be Dopples, who could use it at minimum to get an edge on Town, and provided they got their lynches in on me early (Leafsnail) and got a Townie to hammer me (Jokerman-EXE) they have a 66% chance for an instant victory.
I also find it rather funny that a Serial Killer is currently doing the most work to root out Scum. Where are the rest of you guys?
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 11:24:36 am
No, uh, here's my plan.
Ottofar is going to hammer you and we're going to force extensions through until he agrees. If he refuses continually, we know him to be scum and can have Wubadict block him at each night.
If you don't shoot him, we basically can keep a captive Dopp around. If you free him by shooting Wuba, they're forced to use a kill against you to stop you from forcing a win/draw through. If you don't, YOU are forced to kill Ottofar (eventually) to prevent a Doppelganger win.
Let's put it in game theory terms. For the Dopps, nomming you is a strategy that totally dominates allowing you to live. If they kill townies, you're free to run amok and blow them up, leading them to a loss. The problem is that if you have a Deadman Bomb you have to get into the final 3 and they have to do anything they can to prevent that. Which means by showing your hand you've forced them to strike now.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 11:29:52 am
For my actual roleclaim, as I said, I'm an Exterminator, and my techs are a Deadman Bomb, and a Double-Use Scanner that can be used alongside my regular nightkill. I used the first one on Nuke9.13, the night he and I targetted the same Paranoid Veteran, allowing me to follow up with a kill.
The sounds of gunfire rock the night, and few of you get any sleep.
The next morning you gather in the main hall, but four of you are missing. Criptfeind, NUKE9.13, Jim Groovester, and Mr.Person all fail to join you.
The emotions of the group that heads out to investigate is mixed. Puzzlement, worry, elation, and smug satisfaction, all concealed beneath stony faces.
First you head out to Criptfeind's house. As you approach you find NUKE's body lying behind a tractor. Well, it was NUKE, anyway. He was obviously replaced by a Doppelganger at some point. The bullet wounds to the chest give you a pretty obvious cause of death.
Checking out Criptfeind's house you find his charred body in one of the rooms facing out towards the road. A somewhat melted assault rifle sits beside him, and there are strange silvery metallic shards embedded in the wall. Not like any grenade you've ever seen before, though it seems similar. In any case, it's obvious he was protecting himself from NUKE and whoever else was outside. Not surprising, given that he was a War Vet. At least he took down one of the monsters before he died.
You then check out Nuke's house, to see what you can discover about him. Looking through his journal you find that he had once been an army scout, trained to act as an Observant Guard. But who was he guarding? And what happened to them? Perhaps you'll find out when more clues become available.
Jim's house is next. There you find the door unlocked, and Jim's bullet-ridden body lying in a pool of blood on the ground. He must have been surprised, since there is no sign of a struggle. Looking through his desk you find that he was working as a Detective for the militia. No information from any discoveries he may have made last night, however.
Finally you head off to Mr.Person's house. The only sign there is a bloody handprint on the door, and a strange sign scratched into the wood. Inside you find weapons, medical supplies, and various log books. Seems he was preparing to act as a Guardian for the forces of the Militia. Pity, you have a feeling you'll need those skills more then ever in the days to come.
With nothing more to be gained by looking around you head back to the main hall. Three more doppelgangers remain, and as many questions created last night as there were answered.
Day 2 has started and will go until ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
UH OH
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 11:41:18 am
For the Dopps, nomming you is a strategy that totally dominates allowing you to live. If they kill townies, you're free to run amok and blow them up, leading them to a loss. The problem is that if you have a Deadman Bomb you have to get into the final 3 and they have to do anything they can to prevent that. Which means by showing your hand you've forced them to strike now.
Agreed, which is precisely why any motion to lynch me today purely benefits the Dopplegangers, and not Town. I'm standing in their way, and I am equipped to be a royal pain in their asses, since they don't have the Power Role resources the Town has at their disposal. Of course I'm playing this to win, but I'm temporarily in a position where I benefit from siding with the Town, because dopples are going to come gunning for meas a priority from here on out.
The only way I win is if a Dopple gets lynched today, because then the last remaining Dopple won't be able to kill me without exploding. After that, I need to manage to take out every townsperson... which is honestly rather unlikely, but it'd be a helluva lot more fun. If Town gets rid of Dopples now, then you can Lynch me, and have enough Town left over to survive the resultant explosion.
Conversely, the best way for Dopples to win is if I get lynched today, removing me and at least 1 Town player from the picture, and possibly 2... which is enough for them to auto-win. So long as I exist, they cannot win, and they will invariably have to focus on killing me instead of town, and they can only safely do that if one of them dono't get lynched today.
Basically, the Dopples need me to be lynched today instead of one of them, if they have any chance to win.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 04, 2010, 11:43:59 am
Ottofar : JanusTwoFace, Solifuge
Solifuge : Leafsnail, Pandarsenic
Day 3 ends ~5pm Pacific Today
Something I just had second thoughts about:
Org having been Adv. Doppelganger - though he did flip human townie, I scanned him that night and I'm pretty sure that I would've seen SOME role. Er. Would I? Mephansteras, if a Detective scans an Advanced Doppelganger what result do they see?
It shows in the role section of the OP what role shows up for certain investigations. In any case, Advanced Doppelganger shows up as No Role to a Detective Investigation.
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 12:03:59 pm
But, of course, you're lying about the bomb: You've got a shield instead. But, we can still see who bails anyway.
So, Lonewolf, Ottofar, vote Solifuge. Everyone else unvote.
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 12:17:45 pm
You are not this stupid, Webadict, nor is this a difficult equation to grasp. Only Dopples need me dead. Town wants me alive, and actually benefits less from my death than from the death of a Dopple.
Something I just had second thoughts about:
Org having been Adv. Doppelganger - though he did flip human townie, I scanned him that night and I'm pretty sure that I would've seen SOME role. Er. Would I?
I might add, Pandar, that Exties have the only scanner capable of revealing an Advanced Doppleganger. It unerringly detects any techs, traits, allignment, and role, and mine has 1 more use. If others feel it's the best use of it, I would use it on Org. Gives dopples another pretty good incentive to Nix me too, if I dare say so.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 04, 2010, 12:20:56 pm
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 12:22:26 pm
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 01:02:23 pm
Think about this as a strategic decision:
1) You can lynch a suspected Dopple. If you succeed or fail, you force me and them to fight, and then Town can deal with the two divided, weaker opponents (or most likely 1 crippled opponent). Don't forget that I'm also a confirmed Scum, and have no WIFOM associated with me... you've essentially got me caught, whereas you're still guessing on Dopples.
OR
2) You can side with the more powerful Doppleganger team, and sacrifice 1-2 townspeople to kill their enemy for them, and then hope to be able to deal with a stronger unified enemy, and the resulting confusion that the two of them, whoever they might be, can sew.
Stop doing the knee-jerk "lets lynch Alien because they're sorta like scum" (or in Webby's case because he's got something to prove, and his ego-inflated head is lodged permanently in the dark sanctity of his own rectum). If you leave me alive, and mislynch today, you've got insurance in that the Dopples will HAVE to go for me while they can. If you kill me, they have free reign to continue lurking, sewing confusion, and killing you guys unopposed.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 04, 2010, 01:47:37 pm
I agree with webadict's plan to have two scummy people lynch Solifuge BUT I seriously think he is bluffing. Firstly, as Pandarsenic pointed out, he used what appeared to be a plasma bomb night one. Secondly, think about his claim. If he targetted Criptfeind, he'd die regardless of whether cript had already killed Nuke in the night. So he probably had some kind of PERSONAL SHIELD to stop this kill.
If Solifuge actually turns out to have a plasma bomb, it's almost certain that at least one of Lonewolf and Ottofar are scum (if they're both scum, they might not agree - but this means we'll know who all the scum are, and we win). This means we'd have one dopp and 4 townies left... and the townies would be a confirmed vig, a roleblocker, an agent, a detective and a journalist. Scum would have absolutely nowhere to hide.
If Solifuge is bluffing (personally, I think this is the likelier scenario, but it pays to be safe) we can deal with Lonewolf and Ottofar in the night with the vig/ warden, while I scan someone else. Janus can serve as a sortof doctor by watching someone and seeing who visits (anyone who goes somewhere they're not meant to is scum, obv).
And Solifuge - SKs are scum. Your win condition is mutually exclusive with ours.
Post by: Ottofar on June 04, 2010, 01:53:33 pm
After that I protect Jokerman, right?
Post by: Mephansteras on June 04, 2010, 01:53:47 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on June 04, 2010, 02:00:21 pm
Since I hammer, should I wait for Lonewolf to vote?It doesn't matter, if Solifuge has a DMB it'd kill you both.
After that I protect Jokerman, right?
And yeah, Jokerman if you survive.
Post by: Ottofar on June 04, 2010, 02:08:11 pm
Or did I fail to understand your message?
Post by: Leafsnail on June 04, 2010, 02:12:57 pm
Quote
# Deadman bomb: If the Alien is lynched, he explodes killing the last person to vote for him and a random person near him. A day-kill that is not a lynch will result in two random players being killed. If he is night-killed, the bomb kills his attacker (counts as an NK). Small tech slot.How do you define a "Person near him", Meph?
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 02:14:00 pm
Mephansteras, though it was quite cool, I think the way the flavor from Night 1 was worded makes it unecessarily misleading, especially since you referred to a Grenade, rather than a laser in regards to my kill. Provided it doesn't interfere with the spirit of the game, or what players are supposed to know, would you be willing to provide precisely the information you intended to convey to town, in as Vanilla a way as possible?
Also, the DMB targets the Hammering player, but also a Random player. Not the last 2.
Quote from: List of Possible Roles/Powers
Deadman bomb: If the Alien is lynched, he explodes killing the last person to vote for him and a random person near him. A day-kill that is not a lynch will result in two random players being killed. If he is night-killed, the bomb kills his attacker (counts as an NK). Small tech slot.
FAKE-EDIT Ninja'd.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 04, 2010, 02:15:39 pm
Waiiit... no, I could be wrong.Quote# Deadman bomb: If the Alien is lynched, he explodes killing the last person to vote for him and a random person near him. A day-kill that is not a lynch will result in two random players being killed. If he is night-killed, the bomb kills his attacker (counts as an NK). Small tech slot.How do you define a "Person near him", Meph?
The deadman bomb kills the last person to vote for the Alien (the one pulling the trigger, flavor-wise) and a random other person. Basically 'nearby' just means alive and not captured by an Alien Scientist or otherwise out of commission for the day.
@Solifuge: A Plasma Bomb would leave a giant crater, and not leave a body.
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 04, 2010, 02:16:29 pm
Out of curiosity, I've been running the numbers based on the role matrix. I've always wanted to see how this would work out. Right now, with all of the dead players plus assuming Solifuge is actually the Exterminator, we are at +5.
I'm not actually sure what the margin of error on Mephansteras' script is, but even if the scumteam were Jokerman-EXE (-11 to adjust from town to scum) and Pandarsenic/Leafsnail (-8 to adjust from town to scum) the score is still +3 in the town's favor.
So, we may be looking at this the wrong way. It's entirely possible that Jokerman (for example) is a Dopp Vigilante. Let alone everyone else.
Here's my table:
| Name | Role | Town | Scum |
| Pandarsenic | Detective+Kook | 2 | -6 |
| ToonyMan | Intelligence Scientist | -2 | |
| Org | Vanilla | 0 | |
| Mr.Person | Guardian | 4 | |
| Leafsanil | Agent | 4 | -4 |
| JanusTwoface | Reporter | 3 | -3 |
| Criptfeind | War Vetern | 1 | |
| forsaken1111 | Psychic Warden | 2 | |
| Jokerman-EXE | Vigilante | 3 | -8 |
| webadict | Psychic Warden | 2 | -4 |
| LoneWolf I | Intelligence Scientist | 1 | -2 |
| Solifuge | Exterminator | ||
| Jim Groovester | Detective | 3 | |
| Ottofar | Vengeful Guard | 2 | -3 |
| Toaster | Enchanter | 2 | |
| NUKE9.13 | Observant Guard + Mind Shield | -5 |
Psuedo-edit: *distances self physically from Ottofar*
Post by: Leafsnail on June 04, 2010, 02:28:34 pm
Other than that... huh. How rigid is the role matrix?
And the random kill is problematic, but if a dopp hammers Solifuge (or if he becomes obv by refusing to do so) we can probably deal with it.
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 04, 2010, 03:01:18 pm
Just for reference, I ran the numbers last round as well and it was +3 IIRC. So it's entirely possible to be a bit off, it's just interesting that it's so far off.
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 03:31:06 pm
Here's a rough outline of the way things could go, depending on how everyone acts, with simplified percentage chances for the liklihood of each outcome. Some are accurate to the digit, and others are approximations. It's obvious to see why I want to kill a Dopple, as that is the only result that gives room for a small percentage chance of my victory, but it also gives the best set of possible outcomes, at the highest probability, for Town to win:
1) If Town kills the Exterminator, and I have a DMB:
2 Dopplegangers and 5 Town will be left. 2 of these will be killed by the DMB; the one to hammer me, and 1 random player. A scum player will not agree to hammer me, therefor you are guaranteed to kill 1 Townie. You have With remaining players, you have a 2/3 chance of killing another Townie.
Possible End-of-Day Results:
66% Chance (Dopples Win):
Dopplegangers win instantly. Good jorb.
33% Chance (Bad Result):
1 Doppleganger, and 4 Town remainin. That night, Dopple kills 1 Townie. If Vigilanti kills a Townie, you've got LYLO with 2 Town, 1 Dopple.
2) If Town kills the Exterminator, and I'm bluffing about the bomb:
2 Dopplegangers and 5 Town will be left. Dopples kill 1 town. Vig kills either Town or Dopple.
Possible End-of-Day Results:
33% Chance (Bad Result):
Dopples kill Town/Vig. Vig accidentally kills Town. Day starts with 2 Dopples and 3 Town. Town has no chance to survive make your time.
33% Chance (Good Result):
Dopples kill Town/Vig. Vig kills Dopple. Day starts with 1 Dopple and 4 Town. A reasonable shot at victory.
16.5% Chance (Poor Result):
Dopple kill is blocked. Vig accidentally kills Town. Day begins with 2 Dopps, and 4 Town. So-so outlook.
16.5% Chance (Good Result):
Dopple kill is blocked. Vig kills Dopple. Day begins with 1 Dopp, and 5 Town. Very good outlook.
3) If Town lynches a Doppleganger:
1 Dopplegangers, 1 Exterminator, and 5 Town will be left. Doppleganger can't kill the Exterminator without dying, and attacks 1 Town. Exterminator kills either Town or Doppleganger. Town may also Vigkill either Doppleganger or Exterminator.
Possible End-of-Day Results:
33% Chance (Town Wins):
Vig and Exterminator both target Doppleganger. Results: 1 Exterminator, 4 Town left. Town lynches Exterminator. Town Wins, DMB notwithstanding.
33% Chance (Town Wins):
Vig. kills Extie, Extie kills Dopple. Town Wins.
33% Chance (Mediocre Result):
Vig accidentally kills Town, Extie kills Town/Vig, Dopple kills Town/Vig. 1 Dopple, 1 Exterminator, and 2 Town remain. Town wins or loses depending on remaining Roles and choices made.
4) If Town accidently lynches Town:
2 Dopplegangers, 1 Exterminator, and 4 Town will be left. Doppleganger will have to kill Exterminator, or they cannot win. Exterminator will kill Dopple or Town. Vig will kill Dopple or Town.
Possible End-of-Day Results:
25% Chance (Dopples Win):
Vig hits Town. Extie kills Town. Dopple kills Extie. Day starts with 2 Town and 2 Dopples. Dopples win.
25% Chance (Town Wins):
Vig hits Dopple. Extie hits Dopple. Dopple kills Extie. Scum are dead, Town Wins.
50% Chance (Good Result):
Vig hits Dopple, Extie hits Town, OR Exite hits Dopple, Vig hits town. Dopple kills Extie. Day starts with 1 Dopple and 4 Town.
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 03:54:09 pm
Basically, if you're alive, you will kill a Townie. Because then we can't lynch you AT ALL. So shut up and we'll lynch you. Ottofar will hammer. As long as Jokerman and/or I am alive, there's no way to lose. Also, Janus, Jokerman can only be scum with Leafsnail. What are the chances of that?
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 04:01:54 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 04, 2010, 04:04:00 pm
I will argue that the first 33% isn't actually bad though. With 2 town and 1 scum, hopefully we'll be able to tell who the scum actually are. In the next red case where there's 3 town to 2 scum, it's still possible for a win because the town can still outvote the dopps. It's not as good of a situation, but still winnable. It's only the 66% and final 25% that are actually guaranteed wins.
It's actually funny how you have town lynching town as the best looking case...
@Webadict, a Jokerman/Leafsnail scum team is entirely possible. So far as game balance, it's one of the two possibilities that would end up with a perfect balance between the scum and town roles as I've mentioned. And the other possibility doesn't actually work, looking back (because than Leafsnail wouldn't have gotten a town result).
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 04:07:02 pm
If I knew you in person, your superiority complex would probably drive me to violence. Instead, please enjoy sucking the enclosed lemon (http://beautifullyused.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lemon.jpeg). Do everyone a favor, and keep your ego in your pants. No one wants to see that.
Quite seriously though, PLEASE just get over yourself already. The universe neither revolves around you, nor does everyone bow to your every beck and call. People will choose whether they want to value what you say, but this little dellusion that you've created that you're some sort of authority on anything continues to get dangerously close to pissing me off.
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 04, 2010, 04:11:02 pm
Quote from: War Vet
Is trigger happy and will kill anyone visiting them at night, although they still die if the night target was deadly. Can choose to turn off this ability for a night (leaving themselves vulnerable)
The War Vet should have killed you, but it didn't. Only the Shield or Plasma Bomb would bypass that and we know that you didn't use the Bomb via your claim and the mod. Care to try to come up with another explication?
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 04:17:50 pm
a) If a Doppleganger and Exterminator both target a Paranoid War Vet with nightkill actions, how would that resolve?
b) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected a Paranoid Veteran, and an Exterminator then attacked the Paranoid Veteran in the same night, how would that resolve?
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 04:21:36 pm
I have no shield. The reason I didn't die was because of action priority. Meph, might I ask public clarification on how Kill Priority works, given the following scenarios?A. No kill priority anymore. Both kills cause the deaths of themselves.
a) If a Doppleganger and Exterminator both target a Paranoid War Vet with nightkill actions, how would that resolve?
b) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected a Paranoid Veteran, and an Exterminator then attacked the Paranoid Veteran in the same night, how would that resolve?
B. You attacked criptfeind, not Nuke. You can tell from criptfeind being charred.
Shut your mouth. Suck a lemon.
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 04:21:52 pm
c) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected an Exterminator, and the Exterminator attacked a Paranoid War Veteran, how would that resolve?
Almost-Edit: WEbadict. My Buttons. You continue to push them. Why?
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 04, 2010, 04:25:35 pm
Quote from: The Rules - Action Priority
Mind Control
Pure Role-blockers
Abductors
Protectors
Investigators
Night Kills (The War Vet (or equivalent) is sort of an exception, in that he'll kill anyone who targets them on THEIR turn, rather than his)
So NUKE9.13 protected Criptfeind and was killed on Protectors. You targeted him during Night Kills and should have been counter-killed than, but were protected by your shield. The Dopps didn't target Criptfeind with the night kill... They targeted Mr.Person. Unless there's another Alien floating around, anyways. Which at this point would have to be an Operative (which would be awesome for you) or a Scientist (in which case, you've rather screwed yourself by claiming).
Psuedo-edit: I don't have time to look into if that would actually work myself. When I get back.
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 04:30:30 pm
Actually, there's one more possibility I hadn't considered.C, possible. Except the whole no Dopp kill. And since no one claims being saved, we can only assume you're lying. So, bye bye.
c) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected an Exterminator, and the Exterminator attacked a Paranoid War Veteran, how would that resolve?
Almost-Edit: WEbadict. My Buttons. You continue to push them. Why?
And because you are necessary to remove.
And crap, why didn't I think of that. Mr.Person was the kill...
God dang it, Janus. Now, I'm gonna go back. And think.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 04, 2010, 04:32:07 pm
I have no shield. The reason I didn't die was because of action priority. Meph, might I ask public clarification on how Kill Priority works, given the following scenarios?
a) If a Doppleganger and Exterminator both target a Paranoid War Vet with nightkill actions, how would that resolve?
Everybody dies
b) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected a Paranoid Veteran, and an Exterminator then attacked the Paranoid Veteran in the same night, how would that resolve?
War Vet kills Guard, Exterminator and War Vet kill one another
c) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected an Exterminator, and the Exterminator attacked a Paranoid War Veteran, how would that resolve?
War Vet would attack Exterminator, Guard would intercept the attack and die, Exterminator would kill War Vet
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 04:33:21 pm
b) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected a Paranoid Veteran, and an Exterminator then attacked the Paranoid Veteran in the same night, how would that resolve?
B. You attacked criptfeind, not Nuke. You can tell from criptfeind being charred.
Gee wiz, and Criptfiend was the Paranoid Veteran too. It would appear as though that is exactly what I said happened. Isn't basic reading comprehension swell?
And crap, why didn't I think of that. Mr.Person was the kill...
God dang it, Janus. Now, I'm gonna go back. And think.
Don't worry, Wubba. The sensation is strange at first, but you'll get used to it in time.
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 04:50:01 pm
Janus: work up some team combinations, assuming three different situations: all not lying, possible two lying roles for scum, and those two with a hidden Operative. I was worrying about this before, but I wanted to figure out the possibility. Also, don't assume anyone Town.
I doubt it's existence, but I wanna be prepared. And by this I mean like combos for teams.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 04, 2010, 05:22:27 pm
But yeah, Mephansteras just contradicted what Solifuge said. Way to go, dude.
Quote
War Vet kills Guard, Exterminator and War Vet kill one anotherSo you'd need a personal shield to survive.
Quote
War Vet would attack Exterminator, Guard would intercept the attack and die, Exterminator would kill War VetWould work, only he was an OBSERVANT guard, so you'd know about it.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 05:27:30 pm
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 05:57:47 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 06:15:53 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 04, 2010, 06:17:03 pm
I understand. At this point everybody is all in and your cards make more of a difference than mine.
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 07:25:23 pm
Lonewolf, Ottofar, get voting.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 04, 2010, 07:26:41 pm
Post by: Solifuge on June 04, 2010, 08:28:06 pm
I have no shield. The reason I didn't die was because of action priority. Meph, might I ask public clarification on how Kill Priority works, given the following scenarios?
c) If a Doppleganger/Observant Guard Protected an Exterminator, and the Exterminator attacked a Paranoid War Veteran, how would that resolve?
War Vet would attack Exterminator, Guard would intercept the attack and die, Exterminator would kill War Vet
At least I know what happened now. I've been a bit curious... but Nuke actually protected me on N1. Otherwise I'd have died. Anyway, suppose that the army has aligned in front of our dear Mafia Monarch. Pity that Webby is making you all fight his battles for him though, as I'd rather like for him to put his money where his mouth is for a change. He wouldn't put the last lynch vote on me himself, because despite all the bullshit he talks himself up with, he has no idea if I'm really bluffing or not.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the fireworks. And in fact, I'm going to go see a fireworks show over the lake tonight too, so huzzah for that!
Post by: webadict on June 04, 2010, 08:57:42 pm
As much as I'd like to hammer you.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 05, 2010, 01:02:27 am
kthx
Post by: Ottofar on June 05, 2010, 02:42:16 am
Post by: Ottofar on June 05, 2010, 02:43:24 am
Post by: webadict on June 05, 2010, 05:01:21 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 05, 2010, 06:49:25 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 05, 2010, 01:58:33 pm
Or is it a bah?
HEHEHEEH
Post by: Leafsnail on June 06, 2010, 06:16:51 pm
Very well then.
Post by: webadict on June 06, 2010, 08:44:06 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 06, 2010, 09:33:07 pm
Post by: webadict on June 06, 2010, 09:49:33 pm
Okay, he gets a face full of bullets, the Doppel scum.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 06, 2010, 09:54:26 pm
Post by: webadict on June 06, 2010, 10:00:44 pm
Post by: Solifuge on June 06, 2010, 10:20:25 pm
As a parting word to surviving Town, be very careful to be sure that all the stated roles are doing what they say they're doing. As a parting words to the Doppleganger who got his vote in early, good try. As for your teammate, good luck.
Post by: webadict on June 06, 2010, 11:15:45 pm
But, there's only one way Jokerman can be scum, and that's with Leafsnail. So, you can leave that alone. However, your point about the possibility that I'm a Doppelganger is a valid point. I mean, I could block Jokerman and win, assuming my plan involved mega luck and hoping for my non-death.
Secondly, that a Dopp has shown himself clearly through lurking, and Meph refuses to prod him. So, that eliminates Jokerman.
Therefore, I just need to kill you and hope for the death of at least one Dopp.
I will block one of the remaining few people, removing Jokerman entirely, and probably not choosing one of JanusTwoface, Leafsnail, or Pandarsenic. That leaves Ottofar, who's hammering, Lonewolf I, who's getting shot in the face, and you who's getting lynched. Now, if Ottofar comes up Town, I have to decide among those other three + Lonewolf to block. Probably Pandarsenic for his kook claim.
Leafsnail, you can scan me, since I'm proven non-Leader. I'll probably be dead though if I miss. Jokerman, you can shoot Lonewolf. Pandarsenic, scan... Leafsnail. JanusTwoface, watch Jokerman.
If JanusTwoface isn't scum, I should die. Otherwise, we'll end up with WIFOM for JanusTwoface.
Now, if your target dies, not much of a problem, unless Jokerman or I die.
I'll do some more analysis later.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 07, 2010, 02:55:22 pm
Rest of the plan looks good. We can discuss further by pm if we really need to after the lynch.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 07, 2010, 03:09:33 pm
Ottofar : Solifuge
Solifuge : Ottofar, Pandarsenic, webadict
Day Ends ~5pm Pacific Today
Lonewolf I has been prodded.
Post by: Ottofar on June 07, 2010, 03:12:13 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 07, 2010, 03:15:41 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 07, 2010, 04:57:49 pm
We'll probably discuss more via PM depending on how the lynch goes. I get the sneaky suspicion that either Solifuge is actually telling the truth or that something else will go horribly wrong, but he does need to be killed.
I'm going to keep checking to see if Lonewolf posts before the end of the day. If not, the plan is still to lynch Solifuge, yes?
Be careful that Ottofar doesn't unvote. If he unvotes, the hammer will go back to the previous player who voted last.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 07, 2010, 05:24:18 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 08, 2010, 11:41:15 am
The Whiteboard
Ottofar : Solifuge
Solifuge : Ottofar, Pandarsenic, webadict
Ottofar picks up a shotgun and advances on Solifuge.
"You know you don't want to do that, Ottofar." growls Solifuge. "You know what's going to happen."
"Shut it" yells Ottofar, blasting Solifuge backwards.
Solifuge staggers, strange blue lights crackling around him. He regains his balance, and you can see the illusion covering him fade away. Before you stands a tall reptilian creature, dressing in strange armor. He pulls out a menacing looking weapon and points it at Ottofar. "So I lied about the bomb. Doesn't mean I can't kill some of you anyway!"
A sharp crack is head, and the alien crumples to the ground with a gaping wound in the side of its head. Pandarsenic sets a pistol down on the table near him.
"Damn...ugly bastard, wasn't he?"
You all inspect the alien Exterminator a bit, but the gadgets are incomprehensible and his weapon doesn't seem to respond to you. Finally you give up and toss the body into the freezer with the others. Time enough to deal with that later, if you can survive the doppelgangers.
Sorry about the delay on that. Monday ended up being much busier than I had expected, and I didn't get a chance to wrap this up.
Night 3 has now fallen. Send in your night actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on June 09, 2010, 07:45:36 pm
The next morning shows your numbers reduced yet again. Lonewolf I and JanusTwoFace are no longer with you.
In what has become the general morning's activity you tromp off to find out what became of your former militia members.
At JanusTwoFace's house you find a smear of blood on the doorstep, along with a rather gnawed looking hand. The door is locked, however, and you have to bust it down to get inside. A search reveals that he was a Reporter, working with the militia to help expose government greed. It seems his latest scoop was more then he could handle, though.
After that you head over to Lonewolf I's house. There you find his bullet-ridden body lying in a large pool of blood in the kitchen. Looking around you quickly find a sophisticated Surveillance system. Obviously it wasn't enough to save the Intelligence Scientist from his fate.
Only five of you left, and two of you are doppelgangers. You'll have to choose wisely today if you want to survive this nightmare.
Day 4 ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: Lonewolf I on June 09, 2010, 08:04:02 pm
Looks like my absence was the death of me. Sorry guys. Couldn't help it, unfortunately.
Post by: webadict on June 09, 2010, 08:22:47 pm
Huh. Leafsnail, who did you investigate.
No one else needs to talk.
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 09, 2010, 08:35:39 pm
Post by: webadict on June 09, 2010, 09:28:35 pm
Post by: Solifuge on June 09, 2010, 09:40:40 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on June 10, 2010, 11:08:06 am
Leaving Ottofar and Pandarsenic as the doppelgangers. GG.
Incidentally, why didn't Lonewolf flip kook?
Post by: Mephansteras on June 10, 2010, 11:31:22 am
Also, which of those two are you voting for?
Post by: webadict on June 10, 2010, 12:03:26 pm
It's approximately 50% chance that that is the true team. The other 50% is you and Jokerman. I did some math, and I took a guess. Honestly, though, it's a tough call. In most of the situations, you're scum. Either with Ottofar, Jokerman or Pandarsenic. There's a very small chance that Pandarsenic is scum, in which case it's with you, Leafsnail, or Ottofar. Jokerman can only be teammates with you, but it makes him that much more scummy when you show up scum.
I told you to pick carefully. You didn't. You didn't even target me last Night. Did ya? No, poor Lonewolf got a mouthful though, and your pal Joker would also be scum.
Come on. You know you would've tried to find scum last Night and not confirm me. If anything, I should've been dead. What a waste. Janus was watching Joker anyhow.
Either way, Leafy, you're at about 88% scum. I'm gonna make sure just a bit back, but either way, you've proven me Town unless I'm scum partners with Pandarsenic. You'll need to push that to survive if you are scum, or prove some sort of Pandarsenic/Ottofar link. Not likely, since Pandarsenic is Town. Or at least 50% Town.
I'll get back to you.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 10, 2010, 01:09:28 pm
What?
No, seriously, what? Have you lost your mind, webadict?
Out of the three sensible choices I had, yours was the only one that was guarenteed to be correct (since you are non leader). Heck, you told me to scan you yesterday as part of your plan (and if you were scum trying to mislead me, I'd know by the end of the night).
It's approximately 50% chance that that is the true team. The other 50% is you and Jokerman. I did some math, and I took a guess. Honestly, though, it's a tough call. In most of the situations, you're scum. Either with Ottofar, Jokerman or Pandarsenic. There's a very small chance that Pandarsenic is scum, in which case it's with you, Leafsnail, or Ottofar. Jokerman can only be teammates with you, but it makes him that much more scummy when you show up scum.You're doing this... based on probabilities?
Fucking great. I identify the scumteam, but no, it's more probable that I am scum since I know who they are. Funnily enough, this applies to any situation where the cop knows who the scum are.
Why have you started using broken probabilities instead of scumhunting at lylo? It's just... ugh. Horrible.
And I'll vote Ottofar for now.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 10, 2010, 01:11:57 pm
Derp.
Leafsnayol
Post by: webadict on June 10, 2010, 02:17:12 pm
Gotta think. Anyhow, you all can start talking.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 10, 2010, 04:13:17 pm
Leafsnail : Pandarsenic
Ottofar : Leafsnail
Day 4 ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: Ottofar on June 11, 2010, 10:02:08 am
(Protected Jokerman last night, no one was there)
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 11, 2010, 01:36:29 pm
Or someone will be blocked, no kill occurs, and the WIFOM begins.
Jokerman-EXE needs to not fire tonight, by the way.
And Extension
Post by: Ottofar on June 11, 2010, 02:29:24 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 11, 2010, 02:32:44 pm
Post by: webadict on June 11, 2010, 05:34:43 pm
Post by: Ottofar on June 12, 2010, 12:47:01 am
Post by: Leafsnail on June 12, 2010, 07:10:49 am
What if Leafsnail and webadict are both scum?Crappy WIFOM is crappy. What relevance does that have to anything?
(Protected Jokerman last night, no one was there)
If that's the case, then nobody will be blocked tomorrow night when a kill occurs.I don't see what this contributes either. What we need to decide now is who gets lynched today.
Or someone will be blocked, no kill occurs, and the WIFOM begins.
Jokerman-EXE needs to not fire tonight, by the way.
Also, Jokerman, you need to get down here and post/ vote.
Weirdly, looking back over the thread, I see that Pandarsenic has been buddying me for ages. I ignored it at the time, since I was greatful for the support, but he followed me on ToonyMan and Jokerman with very little reasoning of his own. He also switched to Solifuge equally quickly when I did.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 12, 2010, 07:48:44 am
I caught Soli's lies / called his bluff accurately.
I turned a day when Toony would've gotten off into a Toonylynch. You're welcome.
Why are you surprised I followed you on Jokerman? Forget you claimed Agent? -.-
Post by: webadict on June 12, 2010, 10:01:17 am
Hmph. I'll do some calculations in a bit. This might take a bit.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 13, 2010, 12:02:15 am
I've also been suspicious of Pandar pretty much the whole game, except that he's "confirmed." Something just doesn't feel right with him though.
Post by: webadict on June 13, 2010, 10:08:29 am
Post by: Ottofar on June 13, 2010, 11:48:23 am
Post by: Leafsnail on June 13, 2010, 05:06:01 pm
Ottofar hasn't really done anything all game, and it feels like we're running in circles while he just sits and laughs in scumchat.I don't see what makes you think Pandar is confirmed.
I've also been suspicious of Pandar pretty much the whole game, except that he's "confirmed." Something just doesn't feel right with him though.
And webadict is right - only me and ottofar were free to kill last night. So, really, we should be the only options for voting.
Come to think of it, Ottofar - is there a reason you picked the cameras over the bot? Cameras are good for identifying PRs to you, while the bot is good for seeing dopps commit a kill (if someone kills you, your cameras obviously aren't gonna help much).
Post by: webadict on June 13, 2010, 05:37:31 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 13, 2010, 07:04:41 pm
Leafsnail : Ottofar, Pandarsenic
Ottofar : Jokerman-EXE, Leafsnail
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday
Post by: webadict on June 13, 2010, 07:45:04 pm
I hate you all.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 13, 2010, 09:35:39 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 14, 2010, 12:14:47 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 14, 2010, 12:51:11 am
Post by: Ottofar on June 14, 2010, 02:34:55 am
Post by: Leafsnail on June 14, 2010, 09:21:04 am
Wrong person, Leaf. Ottofar is a Guard.I am, apparently, an idiot.
Isn't it LyLo?Nice observation.
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 11:23:38 am
... Make me pick, stupid Dopps and Townies...
Post by: Mephansteras on June 14, 2010, 11:26:13 am
Leafsnail : Ottofar, Pandarsenic
Ottofar : Jokerman-EXE, Leafsnail, webadict
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today
Two votes would be required to shorten the day.
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 11:29:39 am
If I'm gonna be wrong might as well be wrong now. None of the math works at all, but oh well. Math is for Vector.
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 14, 2010, 11:47:00 am
Post by: Mephansteras on June 14, 2010, 12:52:42 pm
Webadict stands there for a while, holding on to a shotgun and looking nervously back and forth between Ottofar and Leafsnail.
Eventually, he lifts up the shotgun and points it over at Ottofar.
"Fine. I've made my choice. Let's see how this ends."
Ottofar gets a wild look in his eyes, and raises his hands. His mouth opens, but before he can speak the shotgun blasts into him, and he collapses to the ground.
Webadict walks over and looks down at the dying Vengeful Guard. Ottofar struggles to speak, but all he can do is lift a hand...and point.
"What?" webadict growls. "Just die already".
"Nah, you do that first". Webadict whirls around to see Jokerman-EXE standing behind him with a submachine gun in hand. Blood splatters the room as the Doppelganger Vigilante pumps a stream of bullets into the startled Psychic Warden.
"Damn!" Pandarsenic curses, as he reaches for the gun under his coat. Before the Detective can pull it out, though, a clawed hand bursts through his stomach. Bile and blood flood to the floor as Leafsnail, once an Agent, once Org and now an Advanced Doppelganger slowly pulls out his hand to allow the body to fall.
Looking around, the two doppelgangers smile. This compound will make a fine base of operations. A fine base indeed.
Game is over! Doppelgangers win!
Dead Chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/e3ZygJ2vpRuY
Dopp Chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/vubhnM8GjwuLB
Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 1 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 2 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 3 Actions (click to show/hide)
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 14, 2010, 01:17:52 pm
Future townies should take note of JTF's point on day 3:
If the town is up to its neck in power-roles, so are the scum.
Post by: Solifuge on June 14, 2010, 01:25:13 pm
(http://i46.tinypic.com/jv5edt.jpg)
But no, good game all. I daresay Town really should have kept me around: my analysis turned out correct in the end, if you take out all the "Vigilanti kills Dopple" possibilities... gives you a pretty good picture of the probable results... Town could have used something to harass the Dopps with. I see why you did it, but even from an objective standpoint, you were better off aiming for a Dopp than killing your
Org, fine pick on Leafsnail, and Leafy that was some nice roleplaying there. When you got Adv.Dopped, I couldn't tell at all. I'd probably have burnt my scan on Joker, but not you.
Post by: Org on June 14, 2010, 01:28:42 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 14, 2010, 01:31:20 pm
We Adv. Dopp'd Leaf because he picked all of us Dopps on his first try. The Agent part was a bonus.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 14, 2010, 01:56:20 pm
Org wanted to take over Webadict or something Day 1 which I thought wouldn't have yielded the best nectar.
Overall I am disappointed with my scum play, but congratulate Leafsnail on picking out all the scum Day 2 and then bringing out the win for scum, great job.
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 02:02:59 pm
The AD can't come up Townie. It ruins most analysis of the game.
Plus AD + Dopp Vig? Only an Exterminator for Aliens? One thing it's not is balanced.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 14, 2010, 02:11:59 pm
The Advanced Doppelganger can ONLY flip normal townie. It's the only way the replace can possibly work. And, actually, Leafsnail was very nearly uncovered after the replace by Pandarsenic. If he hadn't been blocked night 3 he'd have gotten a 'No Role' result, which would have exposed that he wasn't an Agent. So I felt the Adv. Dopp worked as it should.
The town had plenty of roles to counter what the dopps had. Two Psychic Wardens and a Guardian to counter the Vig, two Detectives and an Agent to counter the Adv. Dopp, an Int. Scientist to counter the dopps scientist, plus other useful roles like the Reporter and Enchanter.
It was heavy power roles for both sides, and it literally came down to a 1 vote win-or-lose situation at the end.
Short of actually getting an Exterminator victory for once, I couldn't have been happier about it.
Post by: JanusTwoface on June 14, 2010, 02:13:13 pm
Org wanted to take over Webadict or something Day 1 which I thought wouldn't have yielded the best nectar.
:D I wish you would have listened to him. Would've been quite a different game!
I'd like to point out the game wasn't balanced, but okay.
The AD can't come up Townie. It ruins most analysis of the game.
Plus AD + Dopp Vig? Only an Exterminator for Aliens? One thing it's not is balanced.
Did you check the weightings? I'll look later, I'm curious with the Adv Dopp and the Agent originally town. Also, Alien's are all +0 (which may be a little odd for Exterminators, although it makes sense for Scientists).
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 02:33:53 pm
No Meph. Think of it this way. The Town was incredibly lucky. We KILLED a Dopp every Day and an Exterminator and we were STILL at lylo. I scoff at your claim of balance if you think luck is the prime factor of balancing.
The AD can flip AD and it stops ridiculous amounts of WIFOM. Sure, the Townie has about a 1% chance to ever show up, but it does help. Basically it's a Death Antimiller that can ruin the Medium and any other role. Sure, someone joins your team and it's "possible" to find them if you're lucky, but not really.
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 03:01:05 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 14, 2010, 03:06:28 pm
And, yes, the Dopp Vig is very powerful. That's why it's one of the most expensive roles the dopps can have. Was it unbalanced? Watching how things played out...I don't think so. The town had plenty of ways to neutralize him.
As far as the Advanced Doppelganger goes...you still haven't convinced me that it's unbalanced. But we can talk about that in the discussion thread if people want a change in how it works.
Post by: Solifuge on June 14, 2010, 03:07:04 pm
It was really a mixed bag, with that last vote. It would have been quite different if any of those variables had changed, or if Leaf had been lynched instead of Ottofar on the last day. It really was anyone's game.
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 03:29:11 pm
Meph, we didn't have bad luck. That was GOOD LUCK! If we had had the Dopp protect someone else, we would have lost the Exterminator, which means we would have been at 11 people: 4 scum, 7 Town. Do a little math there. If we lynched one scum each Day, and they killed twice, we could win. It would have been a D2 lylo. That first Night: lucky. Second Day: lucky. Third Day: could've been luckier.
You're drastically underestimating how lucky we were. We were at lylo on DAY TWO without me. Best we could do is lynch the Vig, a feat that simply wouldn't happen.
You might think two kills is fine and dandy but it's the worst move that can happen for Town.
You can't possibly think we were unlucky. Not a chance. We got... What, a little more of a boost all around for that? -8? A normal Dopp PR is around -3/-4. We didn't offset that Vig at all. They killed that offset first Night.
And the AD has a flaw in that you can't accurately depict the setup, and you don't know if a player has been converted, so looking at OLD talking doesn't work anymore. If the Town is told someone is converted, at least they can know not to scumhunt with the old stuff.
It's a game change that no one is told of. It's like playing a game of chess and your piece changes side, but you're not told until your opponent moves it and tells you.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 14, 2010, 03:43:39 pm
Regarding the adv. dopp thing: How about the town is informed at the beginning of the game whether there is an advanced dopp?
Post by: Toaster on June 14, 2010, 03:51:28 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 14, 2010, 03:56:20 pm
How about the town is informed at the beginning of the game whether there is an advanced dopp?
That's not a bad idea. There could be a different colored pod or something.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 14, 2010, 03:58:07 pm
Spoiler: For large image (click to show/hide)
So I don't think it was unbalanced... afterall, if Org hadn't been an AD, town would've easily beaten the dopps (and, although Solifuge was actually playing a pretty good game as exty, one of the remaining PRs would probably get him).
Which reminds me - sorry, Solifuge. You were playing well. I didn't really suspect you at all before I became a dopp and found out you were scum. On the other hand, you were a wildcard in a set of townie pieces that would all behave fairly predictably at night, so...
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 03:58:44 pm
I'm pointing out a critical flaw in the game that should be fixed. 25% of the players were scum with two kills. That means that two kills that couldn't hit Dopps were hitting non-Dopps?
Do you know what that means? It means it's 99 FRIGGIN' PERCENT CHANCE OF TWO DEAD TOWN YOU MORON! Especially with Meph's exclusion of redirecters, so no kill will be shot back unless you sacrifice yourself.
Maybe 2 kills is too big of a number for you to comprehend. How about this: There are 4 Dopps and 12 Town. If the Dopps kill 2 people each Night, when is it lylo?
Give up? It's Day 2. That means two mislynches and it's game over. Why? Because if you miss Day 1, it's down to 4 Dopps and 9 Town. If you miss again, it's 4 Dopps and 6 Town. See a big pattern here?
The only way it's stoppable is by removing the source of a second kill. But you wanna bet a Vigilante's going to be lynched? Nope.
This is why we were lucky Night 1. We could've been in lylo.
Moron.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 14, 2010, 04:12:05 pm
You'll note that I also made sure that there was a War Vet and an Exterminator in this game, as well as a Vengeful guard. Lots of ways for the Dopp Vig to die, and that's assuming that he doesn't get lynched for being obviously a dopp. (Say, from an Agent's inspection)
Yes, if all goes wrong in a set-up like that the town loses fast. You could have lost 4 townies night 1, without killing a single dopp or alien. But if everything goes against the dopps, they lose fast too. They could easily have lost two dopps night 1 (War vet and Exterminator) and had another uncovered by the agent. That would have knocked it down to just 1 dopp and the exterminator by day 2. Very different game.
When I pick a set-up I check to make sure that both main sides have a decent shot at winning. Since most of the recent games have been fairly close, I think I'm doing a decent job. Luck also plays a major factor, of course, and I do my best to give set-ups where luck should at least even things out a bit.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 14, 2010, 04:26:11 pm
Post by: Jokerman-EXE on June 14, 2010, 04:53:52 pm
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 05:02:41 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 14, 2010, 05:26:31 pm
Post by: webadict on June 14, 2010, 05:48:56 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on June 14, 2010, 06:01:16 pm
It is the first one. That's why these problems haven't been addressed.
Exactly. All we have is this one game. Yes, the Dopp Vig weight probably needs adjustment up, but we don't know that yet. I don't feel comfortable changing the Dopp Vig weight around until we have more data than this one game that played out well. Webadict, you're probably right, but actual games are guaranteed to show reality. If you're right and more Dopp Vigilantes show up and are unbalanced, we'll fix it.
Personally, I think you're bitter that you lynched Ottofar. Don't be, it was a tough call. I probably would of lynched Ottofar if I were you.
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 14, 2010, 07:23:15 pm
To my credit, I totally had Leafsnail's number at the end - I hadn't guessed he was converted but I knew he was scum.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 14, 2010, 07:26:39 pm
And you had me as scum... but from your POV, I had to be scum (in the same way that from mine you and Ottofar had to be scum).
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 14, 2010, 07:30:31 pm
As for you being scum, the only person I absolutely knew was not scum was Wubadict.
Also
Quote from: Leafsnail
We tell webadict to block Pandarsenic (since his role is kinda useless at this point anyway... except for uncovering me :x)FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Quote from: Jokerman-EXE
It hinges on WUBA's vote. If he votes with us, he will have voted with the entire remaining Dopp team and won us the game single-handedly.
I can hardly wait to see what happens.
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Quote
Various discussion much earlier about converting me instead
CCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Post by: Leafsnail on June 14, 2010, 07:36:51 pm
And there was no way I could be town - I had claimed 2 town results on people who couldn't be leaders, thus meaning either you and Ottofar were scum or I was (I could potentially team with anyone, but I'd have to be part of the team).
And if Jokerman were town, there'd've been no dopp vig (you'd definately expect a dopp vig to kill...). So it was no more dangerous to lynch him than anyone else (perhaps different kill methods messed with town... if everyone just showed up as "killed" Jokerman could've been lynched as an SK :P).
Post by: Pandarsenic on June 14, 2010, 07:54:07 pm
Post by: Solifuge on June 14, 2010, 08:03:09 pm
Also, once I figured out what happened with Nuke, Criptfeind, and I N1, I should have realized that the only players who would know definitively that I was Exterminator would be Dopps, due to my Scientist w/ Sentry Guns claim (guns would have been spent on Nuke, and only Dopps knew that he guarded me)... Damn, I might have been able to out Leaf if I'd had a moment to pause and think.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 14, 2010, 08:09:44 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on June 14, 2010, 11:20:07 pm
The lynch might hit the Exterminator, a townie, or a Dopp. The Dopps have a say in who gets lynched. If they're skilled, they can aim the lynch away from themselves, because they know who's threatening them and exactly what those players are thinking.
With an Exterminator, it either kills a townie or a Dopp. It's impossibly hard to steer Exterminator kills away from the Dopp-team since the Dopps don't even know who they should be convincing and what that player is really thinking. All they can do is kill Exterminator suspects.
If we're gonna discuss the setup in general, we really should be in the Paranormal Discussion Thread.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 14, 2010, 11:56:33 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on June 15, 2010, 12:50:16 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 15, 2010, 03:36:45 am
I must say that at lest I got the alien. Or at lest I hurt the alien....no you didn't. I caught the bullets for him. His shield went unspent.
Post by: Solifuge on June 15, 2010, 10:07:38 am
It seems like a lot of Guards died at the hands of their charges. It's a dangerous line of work.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 15, 2010, 11:51:25 am
Better than me, I guarded my own killer for fucks sake.
I am very sorry for that.
Post by: Mr.Person on June 15, 2010, 03:45:18 pm
That begs the questions, if a Guardian and Vigilant Guard both protect the same player, what happens?
Post by: Mephansteras on June 16, 2010, 10:33:14 am
That's not even getting into the fact Ottofar was guarding you, too.
That begs the questions, if a Guardian and Vigilant Guard both protect the same player, what happens?
Guardian saves first, Vengeful guard would protect against a second attack if one were to occur.