Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: Lonewolf I on July 15, 2010, 06:53:31 pm

Title: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 15, 2010, 06:53:31 pm
Welcome to Beginner's Mafia! This is the Thirteenth run of our Beginner's Mafia series. In Beginner's Mafia, you will be pitted up with a Town IC (Inexperienced Challenged) who will help you play the game, and will be just as clueless, if not more so, about the setup as you, and a Mafia IC, who will be helping out the Mafia.

In Mafia, you are divided into two parts: Town and Mafia:
If you are Town, your goal is to lynch the Mafia. You do this by convincing others that one of the group is scum, and getting enough votes on them to lynch them.
If you are Mafia, your goal is to kill off the Town until there is an equal number of them to you by getting them to lynch other Town or by killing them. You are given a kill each Night to kill any player in the game.

Each Day, you all vote to lynch a player. Each Night, you send in your actions. The cycle continues until one side wins. Days are 72 hours and nights are 48. Weekends count for zero hours.

You may not PM other players. The mafia will have a place to talk to themselves.

In this setup, there are the possibility of extra roles. These roles are Cop and Doctor for Town, and Roleblocker and Godfather for Mafia.
A Cop inspects any player at Night. They are told that player's alignment.
A Doctor may protect any player at Night. This stops that player from being killed.
A Roleblocker stops an extra role from using an action. This stops Doctors and Cops but does nothing for Townies.
A Godfather makes Cops get Town for their alignment, instead of Mafia.

There is a 50% chance for any of these roles to show up. It is possible to end up with no extra roles.

For a link to our Tutorial here at B12: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0

If you're still confused, join anyhow and we'll teach you!

This game will have 9 players. If more ICs wish to join, it would be helpful, since one IC is usually never enough.

Players:
1. Thendash - Townie - MafiaKilled N2
2. USEC_OFFICER - Townie - Lynched D3
3. Bandages - Townie - Lynched D1
4. magwebster Scatterbrain - Townie - MafiaKilled N1
5. Ottofar - Mafia - Godfather - Winner!
6. shibdib - Townie - Lynched D2
7. Vector  - Mafia - Roleblocker - Winner!
8. Toaster - Townie
9. Rube - Townie

ICs:
Town - ToonyMan, webadict (Honorary)
Scum - Eduren

Replacement Queue:
TheBroodyMoods

MafiaChat (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/RTjgi4UMqp85t)
DeadChat (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/3MzdkdhyVRM)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: Thendash on July 15, 2010, 06:59:52 pm
I'm in.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: Diablous on July 15, 2010, 07:02:02 pm
Posting to watch. I will be here if you guys wind up needing a replacement.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 15, 2010, 07:34:56 pm
By other foot is fine.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: Bandages on July 15, 2010, 07:40:11 pm
I hope it won't suck so much this time.

Inyways, I'm game.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: Zyzarda on July 15, 2010, 11:37:15 pm
This is my first time.So Im going to be pretty INexperienced.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 16, 2010, 06:12:24 am
This is my first time.So Im going to be pretty INexperienced.

You appear to have a working knowledge of bb-code.  That's a hell of a lot more experience than some of the folks I've seen starting out.  :P
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: magwebster on July 16, 2010, 07:44:06 am
I Hope I don't have to go around Marry'in everyone like I did in the last one.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: Diablous on July 16, 2010, 10:33:29 am
This is my first time.So Im going to be pretty INexperienced.

Might I recommend you look through some of our other games if you haven't already? So you can get a good idea of what to expect and do.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: magwebster on July 16, 2010, 10:38:28 am
*COUGH*done*COUGH*
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: Zyzarda on July 16, 2010, 08:04:31 pm
This is my first time.So Im going to be pretty INexperienced.

You appear to have a working knowledge of bb-code.  That's a hell of a lot more experience than some of the folks I've seen starting out.  :P

Sarcasm?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Now in signups!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 16, 2010, 08:20:55 pm
No, sad to say.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 5/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Ottofar on July 19, 2010, 02:43:48 pm
Internet's working again.

You've seen me play. I'm not good. I've played four or five games, so if you don't want me in, it's okay.

Going to go to sports camp next sunday, not sure, if I have internet there.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 5/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: shibdib on July 19, 2010, 04:58:17 pm
Mudkinps

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 5/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Criptfeind on July 19, 2010, 05:45:31 pm
Jesus Christ not you. At lest put a spoiler around your images.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 5/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: shibdib on July 19, 2010, 06:14:07 pm
Jesus Christ not you. At lest put a spoiler around your images.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 5/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Diablous on July 19, 2010, 06:17:17 pm
Dude, use spoilers!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 5/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Criptfeind on July 19, 2010, 06:21:08 pm
Oh hey you can fix it by add him to the ignore list. Sweet.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 19, 2010, 06:25:19 pm
Cute, shibdib, but if you're posting large images without spoilers during the game, then it's modkill and/or instareplace for you.  My internet can handle them fine, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the players.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: shibdib on July 19, 2010, 10:58:33 pm
Cute, shibdib, but if you're posting large images without spoilers during the game, then it's modkill and/or instareplace for you.  My internet can handle them fine, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the players.

haha my bad, was jus having a bit of internet fun. U can tell the other fellow to unblock me
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Diablous on July 20, 2010, 09:43:23 am
You can unblock him now, Cript.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Vector on July 22, 2010, 05:27:26 pm
In.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 22, 2010, 08:15:28 pm
Just one more....
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 22, 2010, 08:37:25 pm
Aye.  Diablous, Vector, wanna be in game ICs?

(Neither is guaranteed to be scum, though either could be.  But not both.  That'd be cruel.)
(If neither are scum, I will IC the scum team myself until I can find one.)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Vector on July 22, 2010, 08:56:23 pm
I wish to play, but if I can play and mete out advice... sure, why not.  Just note that it's been a looooong time since my last Mafia game.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 22, 2010, 09:04:17 pm
I wish to play, but if I can play and mete out advice... sure, why not.  Just note that it's been a looooong time since my last Mafia game.

Well, that still makes you better than most of the people in Beginner's Mafia.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Zyzarda on July 22, 2010, 09:09:15 pm
Can I Opt. Out?Im not active enough to be in it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 22, 2010, 09:13:44 pm
Can I Opt. Out?Im not active enough to be in it.

Damn.  Ok.  See you around. :-)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Eduren on July 22, 2010, 09:18:39 pm
Scum IC.

Not that I'm any good at this game.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Criptfeind on July 22, 2010, 09:35:37 pm
I wish to play.

This seems slightly odd. Also was it only me that thought the forms died a bit when Vector left and only recovered like a day before she came back?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Vector on July 22, 2010, 09:41:38 pm
I wish to play, but if I can play and mete out advice... sure, why not.  Just note that it's been a looooong time since my last Mafia game.

Well, that still makes you better than most of the people in Beginner's Mafia.

Yup.  I feel sorry for you guys if I roll up scum again.


Aye.  Diablous, Vector, wanna be in game ICs?

(Neither is guaranteed to be scum, though either could be.  But not both.  That'd be cruel.)
(If neither are scum, I will IC the scum team myself until I can find one.)

Note: that means that if you catch the scum IC, the other IC is a CT IC.  That's unfair for the scum, so think up another stratagem.


I wish to play.

This seems slightly odd. Also was it only me that thought the forms died a bit when Vector left and only recovered like a day before she came back?

That is because my mind has secretly been replaced by a radioactive space hamster, whose only training in proper diction and speech patterns came from obsessive reading of Oliver Twist.  Next you'll be commenting about my avatar and how suspicious honey-baked ham is.

In more seriousness, my speech pattern is kind of off due to spending exorbitant amounts of time alone.  I'll probably pick up back up on normal speech in a bit.  Doodabuddy.  Pal.  Friend-object.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Criptfeind on July 22, 2010, 09:48:26 pm
Query- What did happen to avatar.
Statement- Honey-baked ham is delicious.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 22, 2010, 09:54:55 pm
Aye.  Diablous, Vector, wanna be in game ICs?

(Neither is guaranteed to be scum, though either could be.  But not both.  That'd be cruel.)
(If neither are scum, I will IC the scum team myself until I can find one.)

Note: that means that if you catch the scum IC, the other IC is a CT IC.  That's unfair for the scum, so think up another stratagem.

Point is moot now that I have a scum IC.  It will be fully random.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Vector on July 22, 2010, 10:05:44 pm
Query- What did happen to avatar.

I felt like ham, so I switched to ham >_>  This may be because I'm considering taking a couple of acting classes when I go back to college, though it may also be just because I'm a dork.

Ahhh, food-based avatars... I don't even understand why I do it anymore, but I guess it kind of makes sense.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 22, 2010, 10:26:15 pm
Query- What did happen to avatar.

I felt like ham, so I switched to ham >_>  This may be because I'm considering taking a couple of acting classes when I go back to college, though it may also be just because I'm a dork.

Ahhh, food-based avatars... I don't even understand why I do it anymore, but I guess it kind of makes sense.

I'm not seeing an avatar at all...
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Vector on July 22, 2010, 10:28:19 pm
Hm, really?  It should look like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 22, 2010, 10:39:13 pm
Hm, really?  It should look like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nothing's showing up in the spoiler.  Must be a problem on my end.  I can find it by quoting you and then copypasting the link.

EDIT: It appears to be working now... O.o
EDIT2:  I need a sandwich.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Criptfeind on July 22, 2010, 10:47:27 pm
Yup It started working after I went to the place the address took me as well.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need ICs!
Post by: Diablous on July 23, 2010, 09:50:04 am
Aye.  Diablous, Vector, wanna be in game ICs?

No. I don't really consider myself IC material.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Pandarsenic on July 23, 2010, 11:28:59 am
I generally think the "IC is not an actual player" approach is better.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 23, 2010, 06:31:12 pm
I generally think the "IC is not an actual player" approach is better.

I agree, but I'm also wanting to start sooner than later.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Toaster on July 23, 2010, 08:47:01 pm
Put me in if you really need another spot filled.  I'm not quite so newbie any more, but I'd hate to see a game just short of full dragging out.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need Town IC!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 23, 2010, 08:56:49 pm
That should be all of them, right?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - 7/9 Signed Up! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Vector on July 23, 2010, 09:03:06 pm
No, I think we still need one more.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - One More to Start! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Ottofar on July 24, 2010, 11:46:17 am
I'm leaving for the camp tomorrow morning, if I haven't posted until monday, I can't play. Unless this hasn't started until next friday.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - One More to Start! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Diablous on July 24, 2010, 11:53:27 am
Well, we now need 2 more and a town IC if we want to start before friday.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - One More to Start! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Rube on July 29, 2010, 09:23:29 am
Is this still on? Sorry, but there hasn't been a reply in 5 days, so...

If it is, I wouldn't mind joining as a beginner, if there are still slots free? Thanks.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - One More to Start! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Vector on July 29, 2010, 01:03:30 pm
Hell yes!  Here we go.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - One More to Start! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Eduren on July 29, 2010, 02:32:59 pm
Is this still on? Sorry, but there hasn't been a reply in 5 days, so...

If it is, I wouldn't mind joining as a beginner, if there are still slots free? Thanks.
Welcome to the club!

This means we should be starting soon.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - One More to Start! Still need Town IC!
Post by: Scatterbrain on July 29, 2010, 04:32:20 pm
edit: nm, looks like last spot was already taken :<
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Starting soon! Need town IC!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 29, 2010, 06:53:49 pm
Game will be starting soon has started.

Scatterbrain, you will be the first I ask when the (unfortunately) inevitable replacement requests come in.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 29, 2010, 08:08:05 pm
There are few things worse than taking another's life.  However, that is exactly what the Mafia has been doing these past weeks.  The government is in shambles.  You few the only survivors.  Each desire vengeance on those who killed your friends and loved ones, but who among you is responsible?  There will be blood this night.  Every night.  Only when they are gone can you find peace.

The day has begun.  It will end at 8:00pm CST on Tuesday.

Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Bandages - {0}
magwebster - {0}
Ottofar - {0}
shibdib - {0}
Vector - {0}
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Thendash, USEC_OFFICER, Bandages, magwebster, Ottofar, shibdib, Vector, Toaster, Rube

Cast your vote in red so I can find it.  You may also vote to Shorten or Extend the day by 24 hours, or to End the Day.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 29, 2010, 08:58:05 pm
Magwebster; random.org thinks that you are mafia. Are you?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Toaster on July 29, 2010, 09:37:20 pm
Rube, putting your name in red makes me think of LCS.  Have you played it?  Also, of the four possible non-vanilla roles in this game, which do you think is most important to its respective side?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Bandages on July 29, 2010, 10:30:34 pm
Vector, if you were a mafia, who would you want to eliminate during the first night? Who would be your biggest threats in this game?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Vector on July 29, 2010, 11:58:59 pm
Vector, if you were a mafia, who would you want to eliminate during the first night? Who would be your biggest threats in this game?

To be honest, I haven't been keeping up with the subforum at all, so I don't know any of the players in the current roster.  The only reads I have are from people's "in" posts... so here they are.



So, in order, from most dangerous to least:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as N1 strategy goes, I honestly can't say.  I'd probably put some effort into eliminating you and Toaster, but in the end it's more about manipulating players' relationships than it is about killing off specific targets (unless you're playing against Webadict, in which case the entire thing is a tedious round of Kill Webadict Now).




Now, for a question of my own:

Magwebster, name your favorite two scumbuddies of the players present in this game.  Additionally, how much experience do you have with Mafia?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: ToonyMan on July 30, 2010, 01:02:15 am
I will be town IC.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Thendash on July 30, 2010, 02:47:36 am
shibdib, have you ever played mafia before? If so have you ever played with any of the people in the current roster?

@Vector: You seem to have quite a bit of experience in mafia(judging by your post and the fact that a few people seemed to know you), why are you playing in a beginners game?
As for your observations on me, this is my second game of mafia and my first one was the previous beginner's game so I'd hardly say I have experience.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Rube on July 30, 2010, 03:20:06 am
Rube, putting your name in red makes me think of LCS.  Have you played it?  Also, of the four possible non-vanilla roles in this game, which do you think is most important to its respective side?

I played LCS once about a year or two ago. I didn't really get into it.

Of all the roles, I think the Doctor is probably most influencial to the game's outcome. Cop seems like it wouldn't be much use to the Town side, outside of affecting the judgement of the Townie that gets it. Roleblocker and Godfather seem very niche.

---

Vector; So, you managed to get 'bad learner', 'inactive', 'will need replacing', 'arrogant', 'naive' and 'refuses advice' from Magwebster's two short posts? And then you bandwagoned him..?

I'll vote to even the scores a little, although if you were actually scum you'd probably be less obvious about it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: shibdib on July 30, 2010, 06:19:47 am
shibdib, have you ever played mafia before? If so have you ever played with any of the people in the current roster?

Mafiwat? Is that like guns, just with suits?

Toaster ... mmmm toast
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 30, 2010, 06:40:20 am
Thank you, Toony!

Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Bandages - {0}
magwebster - {2} USEC_OFFICER, Vector
Ottofar - {0}
shibdib - {1} Thendash
Vector - {2} Bandages, Rube
Toaster - {1} shibdib
Rube - {1} Toaster

Not Voting:

magwebster, Ottofar

Day ends Tuesday at 8:00pm CST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: ToonyMan on July 30, 2010, 06:46:02 am
Okay everybody do their things, I'm gonna sleep soon and then get up later.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Toaster on July 30, 2010, 09:06:53 am
Of all the roles, I think the Doctor is probably most influencial to the game's outcome. Cop seems like it wouldn't be much use to the Town side, outside of affecting the judgement of the Townie that gets it. Roleblocker and Godfather seem very niche.

I see.

Quote
Vector; So, you managed to get 'bad learner', 'inactive', 'will need replacing', 'arrogant', 'naive' and 'refuses advice' from Magwebster's two short posts? And then you bandwagoned him..?

I'll vote to even the scores a little, although if you were actually scum you'd probably be less obvious about it.

Even though you don't think he's scummy, you voted him to tie the vote count?  That's not a town friendly move.  If you don't think he's scum, why aren't you moving on to the next target?


Vector:  Bandages asked who you would off as mafia, but the way you described everyone, it seemed to be more like you were listing dangers to the town.  Which is it?


shibdib:  Editing posts is against the rules.


Thendash:  What did you learn from your first game that you plan to apply in this game?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Rube on July 30, 2010, 10:05:57 am
Even though you don't think he's scummy, you voted him to tie the vote count?  That's not a town friendly move.  If you don't think he's scum, why aren't you moving on to the next target?

I said it was obviously scummy. Don't you find Vector's random character assassination and attempt to start a bandwagon scummy?

A tie vote at this stage is hardly counterproductive for us anyway, we've still got ~4 days.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Vector on July 30, 2010, 12:02:25 pm
@Vector: You seem to have quite a bit of experience in mafia(judging by your post and the fact that a few people seemed to know you), why are you playing in a beginners game?
As for your observations on me, this is my second game of mafia and my first one was the previous beginner's game so I'd hardly say I have experience.

Yup, I have quite a bit of experience.  I also haven't played a single game for perhaps four or five months (during which time I pretty much rebuilt my brain [long story]), so I joined a newbie game.  I'm also trying to rework my playstyle and figure out how my insight fares post-rebuild.

By "you have experience," I meant that you're not a complete newbie.  So in this case, I suppose I was right.


Vector; So, you managed to get 'bad learner', 'inactive', 'will need replacing', 'arrogant', 'naive' and 'refuses advice' from Magwebster's two short posts? And then you bandwagoned him..?

I'll vote to even the scores a little, although if you were actually scum you'd probably be less obvious about it.

Yes, I did.  Someone asked me a question ("what do you think of the other players," in essence), so I answered.  There's no point in lying about perceived flaws, and there's no point in shying away from the second vote on the person you want answers from.

shibdib, have you ever played mafia before? If so have you ever played with any of the people in the current roster?

Mafiwat? Is that like guns, just with suits?

Toaster ... mmmm toast

Also, do I look wrong about this guy?


Vector:  Bandages asked who you would off as mafia, but the way you described everyone, it seemed to be more like you were listing dangers to the town.  Which is it?

Oh, sorry.  That was just a generic character read, and the actual results were below that.  Dangers to the town = bonuses to the scum, and vice-versa.

Also, people tend to be more active when they've just been insulted.  A lot of the games here have been dying, and I'd really rather not have to watch the subforum go down in flames.  The hope is that an active and engaging beginner's game will lead to more activity in other games.  I miss the days when we had 8 extremely active games running at the same time.

Even though you don't think he's scummy, you voted him to tie the vote count?  That's not a town friendly move.  If you don't think he's scum, why aren't you moving on to the next target?

Also, I am female.


I said it was obviously scummy. Don't you find Vector's random character assassination and attempt to start a bandwagon scummy?

Overreaction noted.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 30, 2010, 03:09:53 pm
shibdib, might I ask you why you edited your post? (And what was orginally on it?)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on July 30, 2010, 08:23:13 pm
Formally request prods for those who have not shown up to the game yet and don't have a previously mentioned excuse.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on July 30, 2010, 08:24:39 pm
Also:

USEC_OFFICER, what color is my shirt?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Lonewolf I on July 30, 2010, 08:29:10 pm
Formally request prods for those who have not shown up to the game yet and don't have a previously mentioned excuse.

Which would be...magwebster?  Done.
Will force-replace him if he's not back by Monday night.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on July 30, 2010, 08:30:42 pm
Which would be...magwebster?  Done.
Will forcereplace him if he's not back by Monday night.

Huh.  It's really just him?  Funny, it felt pretty... sparse... in here.  Well, anyway, I hope this picks up soon.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Toaster on July 30, 2010, 09:46:20 pm
Even though you don't think he's scummy, you voted him to tie the vote count?  That's not a town friendly move.  If you don't think he's scum, why aren't you moving on to the next target?

I said it was obviously scummy. Don't you find Vector's random character assassination and attempt to start a bandwagon scummy?

I'll vote to even the scores a little, although if you were actually scum you'd probably be less obvious about it.

It damn sure sounds like you're saying he's not scum there.  So he's nonscum obvscum?  I don't understand your point here.


Vector:  D'oh, my bad.  I knew that, I just forgot.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on July 30, 2010, 10:07:03 pm
All right.  As I wait for magwebster to get here, I guess I'll unvote.

Thendash, you seem to be keeping pretty quiet.  The first day is already over, after all, and you've hardly said anything.  What do you think of the current situation?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Thendash on July 31, 2010, 12:53:45 am
Unvote, shibdib, you might want to go read up on a few games so you know what's going on.
Ottofar, has yet to post as well so maybe a prod on him too. I'd like to know who you'd want as a scum partner out of the people on the current roster.

Toaster: Well my first game was as scum so I'm interested to see how it all plays out from the, "other side". Hard to apply what I learned as scum to a postion I haven't palyed yet.

Vector: The first day is not already over, or do you mean real life(TM) day? You seem quick to call out people for lurking, but take into consideration that not everyone has the time to post multiple times a day. As for your question, it's still RVS and not everyone has posted yet so it's not much of a situation. But you seem the most agressive, since you've posted like 6 times to the average 1-2 times of everyone else.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: ToonyMan on July 31, 2010, 01:03:06 am
Posting a lot isn't bad if it's helping learn new info.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on July 31, 2010, 01:15:28 am
Vector: The first day is not already over, or do you mean real life(TM) day? You seem quick to call out people for lurking, but take into consideration that not everyone has the time to post multiple times a day. As for your question, it's still RVS and not everyone has posted yet so it's not much of a situation. But you seem the most agressive, since you've posted like 6 times to the average 1-2 times of everyone else.

I meant the first real life day.  And yeah, I may seem quick to call people out for lurking--but god damn am I pissed about the subforum dying.  I just... it meant something, you know?  So I'm trying to kick people up out of their hidey-holes.  I mean, yeah.  Maybe no one has time to post more than once a day.  If that's the case, then that's okay.  But if people just aren't playing... well, that just burns me up.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Thendash on July 31, 2010, 02:13:17 am
Posting a lot isn't bad if it's helping learn new info.
I didn't mean to imply that it's a bad thing.
Vector, I obviously wasn't part of this sub forum when it was busier so I can't really relate to you in that sense, but I agree if people are not going to post at all then they should probably just ask for a replacement. The last beginners game was pretty good until the end, then half the remaining people dissapeared which kind of ruined it. I say we give everyone 24 hours to post then if they don't, sub them out.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Rube on July 31, 2010, 03:31:13 am
It damn sure sounds like you're saying he's not scum there.  So he's nonscum obvscum?  I don't understand your point here.

It's the RVS, and voting for someone doing something obviously scummy, even if you suspect actual scum wouldn't be so obvious, is a good place to start.

Why are you so adamant on defending Vector? Trying to buddy with her? Vector suspected you of trying to buddy with me at first.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Ottofar on July 31, 2010, 05:29:10 am
I'm  back. With a terrible headache. And the experience of the best party I've ever attended.

Answer. I'd like to have Vector as my scumbuddy, since she's got more experience than anyone..

I'm gonna take a nap now. I'll return in few hours.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Toaster on July 31, 2010, 10:27:51 am
Thendash:  Hope you're up to scum hunting, then.

Rube:  I'm not defending Vector.  She can handle that herself.  I just didn't get what you were saying.  Anyway, unvote.

Ottofar, are you going to tell us you'll post more later then never do so, like you do in many games?  Please don't.


Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Ottofar on July 31, 2010, 01:54:35 pm
@Toaster, I hope not.

Vector, only thing that has caught my eye, is that you say I might be hard to read, yet you list me as undangerous for town. Why?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 31, 2010, 02:56:32 pm
Bandages, [joke]Trying to off Vector, are you?[/joke]
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on July 31, 2010, 05:08:28 pm
Unvote

USEC_OFFICER, do you think voting is a joking matter? Townies generally value our only tool a little more than that!

Besides, I think Bandages has been lurking too much to attempt to 'off' anyone.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: shibdib on July 31, 2010, 08:40:49 pm
Unvote, shibdib, you might want to go read up on a few games so you know what's going on.
Ottofar, has yet to post as well so maybe a prod on him too. I'd like to know who you'd want as a scum partner out of the people on the current roster.

Toaster: Well my first game was as scum so I'm interested to see how it all plays out from the, "other side". Hard to apply what I learned as scum to a postion I haven't palyed yet.

Vector: The first day is not already over, or do you mean real life(TM) day? You seem quick to call out people for lurking, but take into consideration that not everyone has the time to post multiple times a day. As for your question, it's still RVS and not everyone has posted yet so it's not much of a situation. But you seem the most agressive, since you've posted like 6 times to the average 1-2 times of everyone else.

Figured joining the game called beginner mafia was a good idea for a beginner... And the edit wasnt the name, and to be honest I dont even remember what it was exactly. Wont happen again tho.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on July 31, 2010, 09:16:36 pm
@Toaster, I hope not.

Vector, only thing that has caught my eye, is that you say I might be hard to read, yet you list me as undangerous for town. Why?

Huh?  I was asked which player I would consider most dangerous if I were scum.  You're ranked low because you might be hard to read and are self-admittedly "bad."
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on July 31, 2010, 11:00:41 pm
Sorry guys, I've been away all this weekend. I'm still away now, but have the briefest moment of internet.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: ToonyMan on July 31, 2010, 11:40:07 pm
Never joke or be sarcastic, it's hard to understand.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Ottofar on August 01, 2010, 01:40:52 am
@Toaster, I hope not.

Vector, only thing that has caught my eye, is that you say I might be hard to read, yet you list me as undangerous for town. Why?

Huh?  I was asked which player I would consider most dangerous if I were scum.  You're ranked low because you might be hard to read and are self-admittedly "bad."

I see. Unvote.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 01, 2010, 02:28:41 pm
Unvote

USEC_OFFICER, do you think voting is a joking matter? Townies generally value our only tool a little more than that!

Besides, I think Bandages has been lurking too much to attempt to 'off' anyone.

What? It's not like we'll be lynching somebody... Damn it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 01, 2010, 03:11:11 pm
What? It's not like we'll be lynching somebody... Damn it.

Is this another joke? I don't get it.

You don't want us to lynch anybody? That's a bad strategy for Town.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Toaster on August 01, 2010, 05:24:30 pm
Ottofar:  I hope not.  Unvote.

Unvote

USEC_OFFICER, do you think voting is a joking matter? Townies generally value our only tool a little more than that!

Besides, I think Bandages has been lurking too much to attempt to 'off' anyone.

What? It's not like we'll be lynching somebody... Damn it.

USEC_OFFICER:  Are you saying you want to no lynch?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 01, 2010, 05:26:32 pm
Votecount:
Thendash - {1} Vector
USEC_OFFICER - {2} Toaster, Rube
Bandages - {1} USEC_OFFICER
magwebster - {0}
Ottofar - {1} Thendash
shibdib - {0}
Vector - {1} Bandages
Toaster - {1} shibdib
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

magwebster, Ottofar

Day ends Tuesday at 8:00pm CST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 01, 2010, 05:42:22 pm
No. It's called a joke. I'm sorry if people are taking it the wrong way.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 01, 2010, 05:58:10 pm
Unvote

USEC_OFFICER, do you think voting is a joking matter? Townies generally value our only tool a little more than that!

Besides, I think Bandages has been lurking too much to attempt to 'off' anyone.

I changed my vote to USEC_OFFICER here.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 01, 2010, 06:06:14 pm
Unvote

USEC_OFFICER, do you think voting is a joking matter? Townies generally value our only tool a little more than that!

Besides, I think Bandages has been lurking too much to attempt to 'off' anyone.

I changed my vote to USEC_OFFICER here.

Fixed
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: shibdib on August 01, 2010, 08:19:55 pm
Unvote

USEC_OFFICER We don't like your jokes around these parts.. Or your obsession with Caps Lock when it comes to names.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 01, 2010, 08:53:40 pm
Unvote

Shibdib, you'd really drop a third vote on someone for no real reason? Besides being incredibly stupid, it's also fairly scummy.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Thendash on August 01, 2010, 11:40:28 pm
Unvote.
Vote Magwebster, you still have yet to post. Internet/RL problems or scummy lurking to the max?
Shibdib, dropping a third vote this early with nothing to back it up. Big no no.
USEC_OFFICER, you might want to start picking your words a little more carfully from this point on or you're in danger to be the first lynch.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 01, 2010, 11:43:04 pm
Just here to say I'll post tomorrow.  It's been a busy day.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 02, 2010, 03:52:43 am
Okay, I have a good idea of who might be the scum now.

Thendash, Bandages, Ottofar, shibdib: If you were scum, which townie would you try to get lynched?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Toaster on August 02, 2010, 08:33:40 am
Magwebster hasn't posted since the 25th.  I think we need a replace.

I'm going to unvote, as I think that was inexperience, not scum, making that comment.

Bandages: Who is your #2 choice for scum right now?  I assume shib is #1, since you're voting him.

shibdib:  I have yet to see you ask a question.  Do you think you can effectively find scum without asking any?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 02, 2010, 09:21:43 am
Bandages If you were scum, which townie would you try to get lynched?

It wouldn't matter to me day 1. Threats emerge later.


Bandages: Who is your #2 choice for scum right now?  I assume shib is #1, since you're voting him.


Not sure yet. I have a few gut feelings, but nothing solid yet.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: ToonyMan on August 02, 2010, 09:23:22 am
Say those gut feelings, guts are good things on Day 1.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Thendash on August 02, 2010, 02:24:40 pm
I'm going to unvote in favour of getting a replacement for magwebster.

Okay, I have a good idea of who might be the scum now.

Thendash, Bandages, Ottofar, shibdib: If you were scum, which townie would you try to get lynched?
Day 1, I'd try to be invisible, maybe not even voting on the lynch. I'd say for scum on day 1, it's all about the nightkill and then framing someone for it on day 2.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Ottofar on August 02, 2010, 02:33:57 pm
Yeah. If someone, Vector for her experience. I remember Webadict complimenting her for her 'superior scumhunting skills' or something along those lines.

Also, extend?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 02, 2010, 03:10:20 pm
Unvote

shibdib, seeing as I am going to get first lynched, again, and you have finally posted something, I would like to ask you a few questions:


Also, I would like an extend also.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Toaster on August 02, 2010, 03:12:23 pm
Not sure yet. I have a few gut feelings, but nothing solid yet.

Let's hear them.  Better yet, go question the person and get them to talk.  How else are we going to get scum to slip up?  Sit here and wait for them?

Ottofar:  How would you try to get an experienced person lynched if you were scum?

USEC:  You won't get lynched if you contribute to the town.

I can hop on board with the extension.  Is that guy who wanted to play still around?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 02, 2010, 03:17:35 pm
There's something like a 12.5% chance Magwebster is scum, and he hasn't said anything at all yet, so I'll back the extension too.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 02, 2010, 03:18:50 pm
How can I contribute when I'm going to get lynched and everybody thinks I'm scum? As far as I can see, everyone is voting for me because I added a bit of humour and someone misunderstood it. I already apologized for it. If I was actually scum, I could have just lurked and played it cautiously like Thendash did in the last beginner's game (Not just Thendash, but I forget the other guy's name.), and Vector would have been lynched. Instead, I come out with a stupid statement that everybody now hates me for.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 02, 2010, 03:36:09 pm
We don't hate you. Joking with your vote instead of scumhunting is pretty suspicious though.

Also - I'm not very good at math, I think it's actually ~23% chance Magwebster is scum. That's higher than I would've assumed, we really need that extension...
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 02, 2010, 08:37:19 pm
USEC_OFFICER "Why would I do that if I were scum?" Is pretty scummy logic. Note how I'm still not voting for you. Don't play martyr, because it will just end up with you getting lynched faster.

Rube You seem pretty eager to lynch someone. Why is that?

And of course, the extension.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Toaster on August 02, 2010, 11:31:43 pm
Not going to share with us, Bandages?

And to dispel the math questions, it's 2/9 chance, or 22.2222... percent.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 02, 2010, 11:37:57 pm
Not willing to share what, Mr. Toaster?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 12:16:33 am
USEC_OFFICER, do you think voting is a joking matter? Townies generally value our only tool a little more than that!

Besides, I think Bandages has been lurking too much to attempt to 'off' anyone.

There's something like a 12.5% chance Magwebster is scum, and he hasn't said anything at all yet, so I'll back the extension too.

We don't hate you. Joking with your vote instead of scumhunting is pretty suspicious though.

Also - I'm not very good at math, I think it's actually ~23% chance Magwebster is scum. That's higher than I would've assumed, we really need that extension...

You, sir, are sidelining.  I also feel like you're sitting here manipulating the crowd (as in your "what do you think about Vector?  Isn't she just the scummiest?!" post).  It also seems like you're redirecting us to lurkers, and away from the guy who's currently on the stage (i.e. USEC_OFFICER).


Figured joining the game called beginner mafia was a good idea for a beginner... And the edit wasnt the name, and to be honest I dont even remember what it was exactly. Wont happen again tho.

So are you, but you're being a bit less manipulative.  Have any opinions on the current situation, or are you just going to sit there and pop up when people ask questions?


I see. Unvote.

And you.  Cut it out or swing in the breeze, scumbuckets!  I'm serious about this.  Surely you have something to say?  I mean, 3/9 completely inactive does not a good game make.


seeing as I am going to get first lynched, again

This kind of post is really scummy.  Basically, it feels like you're trying for some kind of emotional appeal, rather than actually trying to help out the town or find scum.  You're too busy preserving yourself to root out the scum--so why don't you go start attacking someone, and actually being useful?


Rube You seem pretty eager to lynch someone. Why is that?

Unvote.  Bandages, is there some reason why you don't want a lynch?



Also, extension.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 03, 2010, 12:30:27 am
Rube You seem pretty eager to lynch someone. Why is that?

Unvote.  Bandages, is there some reason why you don't want a lynch?

You read something in my post that was not there. Never did I say I was opposed to a lynch. The only thing in my post is the curiosity as to why Rube is so adamant to lynch someone as soon as possible, when we have very few scumtells in this game.

I don't know whether or not you voting for me on something I didn't actually say is scummy, or just telling of poor logical reasoning, but nonethless, I have my eyes on you.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 12:38:42 am
You read something in my post that was not there. Never did I say I was opposed to a lynch. The only thing in my post is the curiosity as to why Rube is so adamant to lynch someone as soon as possible, when we have very few scumtells in this game.

I don't know whether or not you voting for me on something I didn't actually say is scummy, or just telling of poor logical reasoning, but nonethless, I have my eyes on you.

... This is what you said:

Rube You seem pretty eager to lynch someone. Why is that?

Not "lynch someone at this stage of the game."  No, you're asking about just plain "lynching someone."  It sounds as though you are opposed to lynching anyone, which is especially odd given Rube's posts.  Of late, they've been going "extend extend extend."  I don't know about you, but anyone that's extending that hard and pushing others to do so probably doesn't want to "lynch someone RIGHT NOW."


Still bad logic, or am I getting on your nerves yet?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 03, 2010, 12:47:24 am
Well what you're saying isn't really an argument for anything other than how you're choosing to wrongly interpret my words... so I don't know how to respond other than say read my last post.

/shrug
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 12:48:40 am
Well what you're saying isn't really an argument for anything other than how you're choosing to wrongly interpret my words... so I don't know how to respond other than say read my last post.

/shrug

Erm, no.  What I'm saying is twofold:

1. The literal meaning of your post says nothing about the current state of the game
2. What is giving you the impression that Rube is lynch-happy?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: shibdib on August 03, 2010, 12:51:10 am
Unvote

I guess if were gonna extend I'll actually try playing.


Vector your awfully good at redirecting any interest in yourself by blowing little things out of proportion.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 03, 2010, 12:59:57 am
1. The literal meaning of your post says nothing about the current state of the game
2. What is giving you the impression that Rube is lynch-happy?

1. Your interpretation.
2. His posts, at least recently, have all been concerning the likelihood that easy targets (read: players that haven't been posting at all) are mafia. It's easy for scum to point out that someone is lurking for the sake of drawing attention to them. It's even more likely that a scum will constantly try to nail the point home that a lurker is scummy. This is what Rube has been doing. This is why I asked that question.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 03, 2010, 04:27:25 am
Rube You seem pretty eager to lynch someone. Why is that?

It's my understanding that a nolynch is bad for town, because it doesn't tell us anything while giving the scum a free night kill. Even in the worse case scenario, where we lynch a townie, we can look at who voted and why for clues.

That said, we're not eager to lynch anybody. Extending is much better. The scum don't get their free kill, and we don't potentially lose a townie.

2. His posts, at least recently, have all been concerning the likelihood that easy targets (read: players that haven't been posting at all) are mafia. It's easy for scum to point out that someone is lurking for the sake of drawing attention to them. It's even more likely that a scum will constantly try to nail the point home that a lurker is scummy. This is what Rube has been doing. This is why I asked that question.

It isn't what I've been doing. The only possible places I think I could be accused of picking on lurkers;

1. USEC_OFFICER implies that you're scum trying to get Vector lynched (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1447164#msg1447164). My off-hand reply is that you've been lurking too much to attempt this.

2. Stating that I don't want to continue with a lynch when Magwebster has been absent (I never accused him of lurking, I don't think he's here period). I wasn't trying to accuse him of being scum either, I was just pointing out that continuing with a lynch when there's a ~23% chance one of the scum has been entirely absent is statistically unsound.

Besides Bandages, I don't think Magwebster is scum because I have a good idea who is.

You, sir, are sidelining.  I also feel like you're sitting here manipulating the crowd (as in your "what do you think about Vector?  Isn't she just the scummiest?!" post).

Are you mad that I accused you of being scummy?

It also seems like you're redirecting us to lurkers, and away from the guy who's currently on the stage (i.e. USEC_OFFICER).

I asked USEC_OFFICER my questions, and my vote still rests on him.

I'm curious about this 'stage' though... I wasn't aware there was there was a stage we should all be concentrating on. I've been persuing my own investigations. You seem unhappy that attention is being turned away from USEC_OFFICER.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 03, 2010, 06:28:29 am
Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {1} Rube
Bandages - {1} Vector
Scatterbrain - {0}
Ottofar - {0}
shibdib - {2} Bandages, Toaster
Vector - {1} shibdib
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Scatterbrain, Ottofar, Thendash, USEC_OFFICER

Five extensions heard.  Day extended.
Day ends Wednesday at 8:00pm CST.

magwebster is being forcereplaced due to inactivity.
Scatterbrain has been pmed an offer to take his place.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Scatterbrain on August 03, 2010, 07:03:51 am
yeah, I'll be happy to take the guys place. gonna go look through the tread now, will hopefully return with a vote.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Scatterbrain on August 03, 2010, 07:12:50 am
vector: a while back, you were asked which people you felt posed most of a threat as scum. a simple question that could have been given a simple answer - maybe whoever you felt were the two or three most dangerous and some basic reasons why - but you took the opportunity to post a fully-blown analysis of everyone in the game. why so?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 03, 2010, 07:25:05 am
Scatterbrain: What do you think of the town's position at this early point? Who do you feel is handicapping town?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Scatterbrain on August 03, 2010, 07:42:13 am
Scatterbrain: What do you think of the town's position at this early point? Who do you feel is handicapping town?

while this is a newbie game, there are two or three players with some experience among us. it makes sense that such experience is more nebulous when playing a townie role that it is playing mafia, so comparatively speaking the town is likely to be in the more vulnerable position until the newbies get a feel for what's going on.

i think i've already made the suggestion that vector is very keen to get her opinions out into the open in such a way that the inexperienced among us could easily be swayed by her, more experienced, logic (if you like to call it that). it's perfectly possible that townies are being swayed in the wrong direction by this, and if it's not a handicap, then it is, at the least, a danger to them.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Toaster on August 03, 2010, 08:17:49 am
Vector:  Since you specifically called lurkers "scumbuckets", that makes 5 players you just called scummy.  You're awfully eager to spread suspicion around.  I'm all in favor of following multiple leads, but you look like you're just casting doubt.  Do you really think the three you called inactive are that scummy?

Bandages:  Share this:

Not sure yet. I have a few gut feelings, but nothing solid yet.

Let's hear them.  Better yet, go question the person and get them to talk.  How else are we going to get scum to slip up?  Sit here and wait for them?

You never answered me.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 03, 2010, 09:16:08 am
Well, Toaster, right now the people I see as the most suspicious are USEC and Vector.

USEC has said a few scummy things but it hasn't been too bad. Vector is making gargantuan posts that are dripping with scummy things.

And unvote
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 11:03:22 am
It also seems like you're redirecting us to lurkers, and away from the guy who's currently on the stage (i.e. USEC_OFFICER).

I asked USEC_OFFICER my questions, and my vote still rests on him.

I'm curious about this 'stage' though... I wasn't aware there was there was a stage we should all be concentrating on. I've been persuing my own investigations. You seem unhappy that attention is being turned away from USEC_OFFICER.

Back when USEC_OFFICER had votes piled on him and was actively complaining about how he was about to be lynched, you seemed to be more concerned about lurkers than the guy in the middle.

Redirection to lurkers when an undesired lynch is about to happen is a common scum tactic--especially if "the guy in the middle" hasn't been properly screened and questioned by the folks voting him.  Townie lurker-lynches are basically free lynches for the scum, because they don't have to work at them much.  Furthermore, anyone who has already been up for lynchery without definitively proving him town via reaction testing is much easier to slide back into the middle, which is good for scum in the end-game.  In my opinion the proper protocol is to call out and threaten the lurkers, but not suddenly slide a mountain of votes onto them unless they've been lurking egregiously (i.e. through the second game day or so, especially in a newbie game).  Things tend to work better if townies systematically test the reactions of one individual at a time after attempting to provoke reactions en masse during the RVS.


You, sir, are sidelining.  I also feel like you're sitting here manipulating the crowd (as in your "what do you think about Vector?  Isn't she just the scummiest?!" post).

Are you mad that I accused you of being scummy?

Nope.  I think that you're sidelining and crowd-directing, as noted above.


vector: a while back, you were asked which people you felt posed most of a threat as scum. a simple question that could have been given a simple answer - maybe whoever you felt were the two or three most dangerous and some basic reasons why - but you took the opportunity to post a fully-blown analysis of everyone in the game. why so?

Because they asked me a question, and that is the only way that I am capable of answering that question.  When there is no available data, you must retrieve data--so I did.  It is also necessary to explain reasoning and cite sources.  You cannot find the "largest threat" if you have not evaluated the threat level of each individual, and made a solid attempt at analyzing the known body of information.

I love information: retrieving it, classifying it, redigesting it for common use.  To be sure, I could have just chewed up the data for myself and given out a simple answer, but that would be withholding what I knew to no good end.  In this game, the written trail of the past provides rails for the future.  An individual must leave a legacy.

... Or, for a different sort of answer, less full of intellectual wankery, it was an attempt to provoke reactions.  I told each player what I thought of him or her at the beginning of the game (do correct me if I'm wrong about your gender, by the way).  The result is that a lot of people are calling me scum because I called them naive or difficult to teach, which... well, though amusing, it wasn't the intended result.  If only a couple were getting angry/scared/defensive/whatever, I'd have some leads (scum tend to be far more emotionally labile than town).  As-is, though, I have to start testing more reactions and so on.


Vector:  Since you specifically called lurkers "scumbuckets", that makes 5 players you just called scummy.  You're awfully eager to spread suspicion around.  I'm all in favor of following multiple leads, but you look like you're just casting doubt.  Do you really think the three you called inactive are that scummy?

They're engaging in scummy behavior, yeah, and if they don't shape up then the late game is going to be really hard to sort through.  Meh.  When people are doing something "wrong," I dog them until they do it right.  In this case, there's a lot of people doing things wrong, and I really wish they would stop so I could sort things out.


Vector is making gargantuan posts that are dripping with scummy things.

[citation needed].  What's scummy about making large posts, and what about their contents do you find problematic?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 03, 2010, 11:26:03 am
Back when USEC_OFFICER had votes piled on him and was actively complaining about how he was about to be lynched, you seemed to be more concerned about lurkers than the guy in the middle.

Source, please. Also, read my response to Bandages here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1454146#msg1454146) (the response to the second quote, specifically).

Redirection to lurkers when an undesired lynch is about to happen is a common scum tactic--especially if "the guy in the middle" hasn't been properly screened and questioned by the folks voting him.  Townie lurker-lynches are basically free lynches for the scum, because they don't have to work at them much.  Furthermore, anyone who has already been up for lynchery without definitively proving him town via reaction testing is much easier to slide back into the middle, which is good for scum in the end-game.  In my opinion the proper protocol is to call out and threaten the lurkers, but not suddenly slide a mountain of votes onto them unless they've been lurking egregiously (i.e. through the second game day or so, especially in a newbie game).  Things tend to work better if townies systematically test the reactions of one individual at a time after attempting to provoke reactions en masse during the RVS.

That tactic is terrible. Having individuals be grilled systematically by the town is predictable, and keeps the pressure on only one person (who is statistically unlikely to be scum). I'll stick to my tactics, thank you.

Also, I haven't tried to 'slide a mountain of votes' onto anyone. I haven't even moved my own vote from USEC_OFFICER.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 11:33:30 am
Back when USEC_OFFICER had votes piled on him and was actively complaining about how he was about to be lynched, you seemed to be more concerned about lurkers than the guy in the middle.

Source, please. Also, read my response to Bandages here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1454146#msg1454146) (the response to the second quote, specifically).

Redirection to lurkers when an undesired lynch is about to happen is a common scum tactic--especially if "the guy in the middle" hasn't been properly screened and questioned by the folks voting him.  Townie lurker-lynches are basically free lynches for the scum, because they don't have to work at them much.  Furthermore, anyone who has already been up for lynchery without definitively proving him town via reaction testing is much easier to slide back into the middle, which is good for scum in the end-game.  In my opinion the proper protocol is to call out and threaten the lurkers, but not suddenly slide a mountain of votes onto them unless they've been lurking egregiously (i.e. through the second game day or so, especially in a newbie game).  Things tend to work better if townies systematically test the reactions of one individual at a time after attempting to provoke reactions en masse during the RVS.

That tactic is terrible. Having individuals be grilled systematically by the town is predictable, and keeps the pressure on only one person (who is statistically unlikely to be scum). I'll stick to my tactics, thank you.

Also, I haven't tried to 'slide a mountain of votes' onto anyone. I haven't even moved my own vote from USEC_OFFICER.

No, I know.  I'm not accusing you of vote-sliding >_>  I'm just telling you what my experience is, and why I'm making the statements I'm making.  As far as that being a terrible strategy... well, I never saw "townie predictability" as a bad thing.  Scum generally know they're going to sustain some heavy fire at some point in a game, and they'd better be able to get through it.  Focusing mostly on one person at a time allows you to "crack" them and determine their alignment.

... If you want to see an example of that working really well and then exploding due to massive stupidity, check out Not-so-beginner's Mafia (first round).  It was a fairly interesting game.


Whoops, I skimmed your post and missed your second point.  Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 11:33:55 am
EDIT: I was, in fact, referring to the "absentee Magwebster" posts, just FYI.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Ottofar on August 03, 2010, 12:13:44 pm
@Whoever asked, how would I try to lynch an experienced player,
I'd latch on slightest tell. And all that stuff. I don't really know. Semi-tunnel, having them as your only serious target to avoid suspicion, and throwing meaningless tells there and there. You know, to make anyone not notice that I'm actually tunneling.

How can I contribute when I'm going to get lynched and everybody thinks I'm scum? As far as I can see, everyone is voting for me because I added a bit of humour and someone misunderstood it. I already apologized for it. If I was actually scum, I could have just lurked and played it cautiously like Thendash did in the last beginner's game (Not just Thendash, but I forget the other guy's name.), and Vector would have been lynched. Instead, I come out with a stupid statement that everybody now hates me for.

USEC, This is WIFOM, ("If I was scum, why'd I do this or that"). Don't do it.

And Rube, You feel scummy. I don't know why, though.



 
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 03, 2010, 02:59:24 pm
@Whoever asked, how would I try to lynch an experienced player,
I'd latch on slightest tell. And all that stuff. I don't really know. Semi-tunnel, having them as your only serious target to avoid suspicion, and throwing meaningless tells there and there. You know, to make anyone not notice that I'm actually tunneling.

How can I contribute when I'm going to get lynched and everybody thinks I'm scum? As far as I can see, everyone is voting for me because I added a bit of humour and someone misunderstood it. I already apologized for it. If I was actually scum, I could have just lurked and played it cautiously like Thendash did in the last beginner's game (Not just Thendash, but I forget the other guy's name.), and Vector would have been lynched. Instead, I come out with a stupid statement that everybody now hates me for.

USEC, This is WIFOM, ("If I was scum, why'd I do this or that"). Don't do it.

And Rube, You feel scummy. I don't know why, though.

Noted.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Thendash on August 03, 2010, 03:03:40 pm
I'm getting a lot of scummy vibes from a few different people. I'm gonna re-read the thread then post my findings sometime later today when I have more time.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 03, 2010, 09:16:51 pm

Vector is making gargantuan posts that are dripping with scummy things.

[citation needed].  What's scummy about making large posts, and what about their contents do you find problematic?

Because several mafia I have seen have employed that tactic to say "Hey look I know so much that I must be a helpful town. Gee these people sure look suspicious! Vote for them and not me."

Terse and to-the-point posts are the most effective in this game because of both readability and the fact that they mostly don't draw attention to yourself.

One of the biggest reasons, you're #1 on my scum suspect list so far is because of your long, long, incredibly long posts. This, coupled with the fact that you've already tried to misdirect on others makes you pretty scummy looking. Unless someone fucks up bad soon, I'm going to suggest lynching you for Day 1 based on my suspicions.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun! Need town IC!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 03, 2010, 09:33:59 pm
Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {2} Rube, Ottofar
Bandages - {1} Vector
Scatterbrain - {0}
Ottofar - {0}
shibdib - {1} Toaster
Vector - {2} shibdib, Scatterbrain
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Thendash, USEC_OFFICER, Bandages

Day ends Wednesday at 8:00pm CST.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 09:36:58 pm
Let me get this straight.



Vector is making gargantuan posts that are dripping with scummy things.

[citation needed].  What's scummy about making large posts, and what about their contents do you find problematic?

Because several mafia I have seen have employed that tactic to say "Hey look I know so much that I must be a helpful town. Gee these people sure look suspicious! Vote for them and not me."

The fact that I am providing information--helpful or not--is tantamount to "gargantuan posts dripping with scummy things" ?  Pardon me, doodabuddy, but are you serious?

You've got to bring some better allegations than that, because this is just pathetic.


Terse and to-the-point posts are the most effective in this game because of both readability and the fact that they mostly don't draw attention to yourself.

You seem to be awfully interested in self-protection for someone who's purportedly town.  Don't buy it.


One of the biggest reasons, you're #1 on my scum suspect list so far is because of your long, long, incredibly long posts. This, coupled with the fact that you've already tried to misdirect on others makes you pretty scummy looking. Unless someone fucks up bad soon, I'm going to suggest lynching you for Day 1 based on my suspicions.

[citation needed].
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 03, 2010, 09:48:26 pm
How are you reading these things in my posts? I'm done talking to you, it is beyond reason.

Vector. Next time you get assigned as scum, don't make the same mistakes you made this time.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 11:33:02 pm
How are you reading these things in my posts? I'm done talking to you, it is beyond reason.

Vector. Next time you get assigned as scum, don't make the same mistakes you made this time.

...

You're a moron.  Are you actually listening to what you're saying, or does it just magically spill out of your mouth?  See, now I can't actually explain anything, because you've decried all long posts as bad.  Has it ever occurred to you that people write long posts when they have a lot to say, and perhaps "having a lot to say" is not a sign of definite scumminess?

If you want to push a lynch on me, then go ahead--but when I flip town, I fully expect the rest of you to examine Bandages' statements more closely.  Whenever I ask him to explain his reasoning, he just laughs it off and threatens me with a vote.  He doesn't ask questions.  Whatever he mentions as a solid reason for his vote ends up vaporizing when pressed.


Now, in all seriousness: I'll happily remove my vote from you if you can explain the "mistakes" I've made, and start patching together your shaky logic.  On the other hand, you're playing in Supernatural, aren't you?  Do my posts look any bigger than, say, Mr. Person's?  Or are you just making a big deal out of nothing, dropping the third vote on someone with little reasoning, and pushing the lynch for vacuous reasons?



Oh, and by the way: if you want to complain about my logical and analytical skills, I'm a math major with a healthy dose of literary analysis on the side.  You may disagree with my reasoning, but that does not mean it is nonextant.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 03, 2010, 11:43:06 pm
Your math degree and a quarter will get you twenty five cents.

Don't bring your real life ego into mafia. It's a game.

I'm saying that you've not once answered any questions I've given you. You've made long posts describing the suspiciousness of every other player, and you've been reading things in my posts that haven't been there. Being an asshole to me won't change the fact that you are showing scummy behavior, and threatening "I am so gonna be town when I die" doesn't actually matter, since a mafia could just as easily say that.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 11:46:35 pm
Your math degree and a quarter will get you twenty five cents.

Don't bring your real life ego into mafia. It's a game.

I'm saying that you've not once answered any questions I've given you. You've made long posts describing the suspiciousness of every other player, and you've been reading things in my posts that haven't been there. Being an asshole to me won't change the fact that you are showing scummy behavior, and threatening "I am so gonna be town when I die" doesn't actually matter, since a mafia could just as easily say that.

I'll give you your own advice: don't bring your real life ego into this.  If you can tell me my logic is bad, then I can call you a moron--it's only fair.

Please show me one question you have asked me and I have not answered.  Please also show me some "scummy behavior" other than the writing of long posts.  Please also address the "citation needed" that I gave you for your other statement.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 03, 2010, 11:53:28 pm
This is a flame war. It is stupid. I am done.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 03, 2010, 11:56:33 pm
This is a flame war. It is stupid. I am done.

Yes, it's stupid.  I wouldn't call it a flame war, though... far from it.

If you want to bring some meaty accusations, then bring them.  That's your responsibility, though, and not mine.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Vector on August 04, 2010, 12:01:04 am
Fakedit: Whoops, you're in Dethy.  Wrong game =/

I guess you would expect something else, then, because the mood is completely different.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Ottofar on August 04, 2010, 05:03:48 am
Ahem. Unvote.

Bandages. I, for one see nothing scummy at making long posts, specifically if they don't contain tells.

Your 'tell' is that Vector posts a lot. Take a look at her other games. She pretty much always posts like that.

You, on the other hand, place the third vote on Vector, for practically no reason.

Scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 04, 2010, 05:50:49 am
Unvote.

It's nearing the end of day 1, and these are my suspects along with reasons;

Vector
I think it's been stated a good few times why Vector was acting suspiciously. I think she was attempting to gain control of the flow of the game. First with her psychological profile, setting up several people as 'baddies' based on no evidence. Then by forwarding the idea of the 'stage' - that we should all focus on one person at a time. Obviously, controlling where townies are focusing their attention would be very powerful for scum.

Bandages
First, he was absent near the start of the game, only reappearing after I idly accused him of lurking. He makes a show of scumhunting after that, but he doesn't really put pressure on anyone. He defends himself with more effort and vigor than he uses to accuse anyone else.

It looks too calculated to me. The bare minimum of posts not to appear to be hardcore lurking, and token show of scumhunting without pressuring anyone hard enough to annoy them and draw ire. His accusations seem to mostly be based on misinterpretaing otherwise clear posts, too.

Then he latches onto Vector and really lays into her. Without having done any serious scumhunting he seems very sure that Vector is scum. Either he's attempting to start a bandwagon against who he feels is a weak target, or he knows Vector is scum and is bussing her because she's become an obvious target and likely candidate for first day lynch regardless of his intervention. Being able to say 'I voted that scum off on day 1' would be a powerful card later in the game for him - I believe it's a little unorthodox to bus your scumbuddy on day 1.


I'd like to vote Bandages off first, but I'm not sure I'd get any support for that. I'm not 100% sure about Vector - she could've been trying a misguided attempt to help organise town, but I doubt it. I suspect things will go one of two ways;

1. We end up lynching Vector. If she flips scum, vote Bandages off next.

2. Bandages and Vector attempt to get me lynched next. After I flip town, vote them off next please.

fakeedit - nevermind, Ottofar voted Bandages while I was posting. Bandages.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Toaster on August 04, 2010, 08:01:36 am
Vector vs Bandages is striking me as two townies duking it out, while scummier people like Thendash lurk away in the background.  Thendash, you said...

I'm getting a lot of scummy vibes from a few different people. I'm gonna re-read the thread then post my findings sometime later today when I have more time.

...then never followed through, despite being online.  This is one of my favorite scum tells.  Please grace us with your presence, and let us know who is vibing scummy to you.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: ToonyMan on August 04, 2010, 08:09:31 am
Writing someone off and ignoring them is no good.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 04, 2010, 09:28:18 am
Unvote

Ottofar, I've been waiting for someone to get involved in Vector and my argument for no reason other than we are both drawing attention to ourselves. You offer no reason other than "you are being loud, therefor, easily lynchable". I actually have very little belief Vector is a mafia at this point.

While Rube's examination of mine and Vector's 'fight' is in depth and full of stragetic thought, yours is simple and lacks any real accusation other than "long posts AREN'T scummy, so therefor you are". Also that vote came after lurking for a large portion of this game. Nail in the coffin, my scummy friend.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Ottofar on August 04, 2010, 12:38:00 pm
Unvote

Ottofar, I've been waiting for someone to get involved in Vector and my argument for no reason other than we are both drawing attention to ourselves. You offer no reason other than "you are being loud, therefor, easily lynchable". I actually have very little belief Vector is a mafia at this point.

While Rube's examination of mine and Vector's 'fight' is in depth and full of stragetic thought, yours is simple and lacks any real accusation other than "long posts AREN'T scummy, so therefor you are". Also that vote came after lurking for a large portion of this game. Nail in the coffin, my scummy friend.

What. You say you landed 3rd vote on a player, you don't think is scum. You say my only reason is that long posts aren't scummy, while yours was, 'long posts are scummy'.

And, as WIFoMous it sounds, why the hell not hop on Vector-bandwagon.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Thendash on August 04, 2010, 03:22:05 pm
Vector vs Bandages is striking me as two townies duking it out, while scummier people like Thendash lurk away in the background.  Thendash, you said...

I'm getting a lot of scummy vibes from a few different people. I'm gonna re-read the thread then post my findings sometime later today when I have more time.

...then never followed through, despite being online.  This is one of my favorite scum tells.  Please grace us with your presence, and let us know who is vibing scummy to you.

Yeah, I was going to post but then that whole spat between bandages and vector happened so I thought I better let that settle itself out. Now I really don't know what to make of it. It could be two townies duking it out, it could be two scum in some crazy ploy, or one of them could be scum trying to start a bandwagon.
Unvote

Ottofar, I've been waiting for someone to get involved in Vector and my argument for no reason other than we are both drawing attention to ourselves. You offer no reason other than "you are being loud, therefor, easily lynchable". I actually have very little belief Vector is a mafia at this point.
This sort of sounds like Bandages never had the intention to lynch vector the whole time, and was just using the argument as a way to get an easy lynch. That seems pretty scummy to me, but the question is whether or not vector is in on it and is scum as well.

Rube has kinda rubbed me the wrong way the whole time but it's more of a gut feeling then anything.
Unvote.
I'd like to vote Bandages off first, but I'm not sure I'd get any support for that. I'm not 100% sure about Vector - she could've been trying a misguided attempt to help organise town, but I doubt it. I suspect things will go one of two ways;

1. We end up lynching Vector. If she flips scum, vote Bandages off next.

2. Bandages and Vector attempt to get me lynched next. After I flip town, vote them off next please.

fakeedit - nevermind, Ottofar voted Bandages while I was posting. Bandages.
This seems really scummy to me, he was going to vote vector but then someone else(ottofar) voted bandages so he switches his vote. That's a blatent bandwagon, and that's bad.
2. Bandages and Vector attempt to get me lynched next. After I flip town, vote them off next please.
When people say that, it makes me really suspicious. When I was scum last game, I tried to drop stuff like this whenever I could, not a good tactic at all but I was new and I realise how bad of a tactic it is now.

FOS Bandages, I think we need to lynch him soon. His posts usually just end up confusing people and that is bad when trying to route out the scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 04, 2010, 03:54:48 pm
Unvote

Ottofar, I've been waiting for someone to get involved in Vector and my argument for no reason other than we are both drawing attention to ourselves. You offer no reason other than "you are being loud, therefor, easily lynchable". I actually have very little belief Vector is a mafia at this point.

While Rube's examination of mine and Vector's 'fight' is in depth and full of stragetic thought, yours is simple and lacks any real accusation other than "long posts AREN'T scummy, so therefor you are". Also that vote came after lurking for a large portion of this game. Nail in the coffin, my scummy friend.

You place the 3rd vote on Vector, an easy target to start a bandwagon against. You then put a lot of effort into attacking Vector, possibly to make it seem like there's more debate and dissent surrounding her than actually exists. You claim this was all a clever ploy to lure the REAL scum out when votes start dropping on you, and that you don't think Vector is actually scum - you dropped the 3rd vote against someone you admit you didn't think was scum, near the end of the day.

Yeah, I don't buy it.

Your clever ploy makes no sense. If Vector is a townie as you claim, why would making a lot of noise make the true scum vote for you? They'd jump on the Vector bandwagon for an easy townie lynch.

Your actions are, again, defensive. Ottofar and myself vote for you. You attack Ottofar and compliment me. You're attempting to defuse both our votes against you, and you do it at the expense of your vote for the person you originally wanted to get lynched (Vector).

This seems really scummy to me, he was going to vote vector but then someone else(ottofar) voted bandages so he switches his vote. That's a blatent bandwagon, and that's bad.

It was a fakeedit. If I wanted to hide the fact that I was going to vote for Vector originally I could've done it real easily. I suspect both of them are scum, and would vote for either. I'd rather lynch Bandages first though, as I suspect him a great deal more. I said as much in my last post.

Also, how is dropping the 2nd vote on Bandages more of a bandwagon than the 4th vote on Vector?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 04, 2010, 04:02:56 pm
fakeedit - 3rd vote on Bandages, forgot that Vector originally had a vote on him.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 04, 2010, 06:44:33 pm
If you guys lynch me (and you probably will, seeing how things are going now) You should lynch Rube or Ottofar next.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Bandages on August 04, 2010, 06:45:58 pm
Edit: When I flip town, of course  :P
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 04, 2010, 06:48:11 pm
Votecount:
Thendash - {1} Toaster
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Bandages - {3} Vector, Ottofar, Rube
Scatterbrain - {0}
Ottofar - {1} Bandages
shibdib - {0}
Vector - {2} shibdib, Scatterbrain
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {1} Thendash

Not Voting:

USEC_OFFICER

Day ends Wednesday at 8:00pm CST.
One hour remaining.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Almost Over!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 04, 2010, 08:35:14 pm
Rube stood, and with a sudden lunge he tackled Bandages and drove him to the ground.

"Why are you so eager to off Vector, Scum!", he screamed as his fist met Bandage's face.

Before he could land a second blow, shibdib grabbed his shoulders and pulled him off, maneuvering him into an armlock.

"Calm yourself, Rube.  Vector is the Scum here. Don't you see that?"

Ottofar grabbed the rope. "All I see is filthy, bandwagoning Scum."

Bandages, recovered now, stood.

"It's alright, shibdib.  If my death is what it takes to open their eyes, then I shall rest easy knowing it was not in vain."

Ottofar threw one end of the rope over the rafters.  Vector caught it and took up the slack.  Bandages stood up on a chair.

As Ottofar placed the noose about Bandage's neck, his eyes met each of the other's in turn.

"Rube and Ottofar.  There are your scum."

Rube spat on him, then kicked out the chair.  A muffled crack. Bandages shuddered, and was no more.

"Look at this!", Toaster exclaimed, stooping to pick up something off the floor beneath Bandage's feet.

"A wallet.  He must have been holding it as he died."

Opening it up, pictures are found of his wife and daughter.  A quick search of Bandage's pockets turn up newspaper clippings.

WOMAN FOUND DEAD!, the headlines read.  CHILD MISSING. MAFIA BELIEVED RESPONSIBLE.

"He really was innocent." said Scatterbrain.  "What do we do now?"

Silence was the only response.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Almost Over!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 04, 2010, 08:37:08 pm
The day has ended.

Bandages has been lynched!

Bandages was a Townie!

Night has begun!  Send in your night actions!

Day Two begins on Thursday at 8:00pm CST, or whenever all the night actions have arrived.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 06, 2010, 06:28:49 am
Morning dawns red, and as you file into the abandoned church one of your number is missing.  Scatterbrain.  Fortunately, Thendash knew where his house is, so you head out to search it.  Moving room by room, conscious of the possibility of a Mafia ambush, you finally stumble upon his bedroom, only to see him fast asleep underneath the covers.  Ottofar shakes him, calling his name, but he fails to awaken.  Pulling back the covers, the cold pallor of his skin reveals his sleep to be that of the dead.

Scatterbrain has been Killed!
He was a Townie.

Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Ottofar - {0}
shibdib - {0}
Vector - {0}
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Thendash, USEC_OFFICER, Ottofar, shibdib, Vector, Toaster, Rube

Day ends Wednesday at 8:00pm CST.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Toaster on August 06, 2010, 11:20:43 am
Shibdib, your participation is very lacking.  Why do you think Scatterbrain was chosen to be killed?

Thendash: Same question to you.  Also, you wanted Bandages lynched per your last post- are you happy that he was?

Rube:  Your last two posts of D1 are scummy.  First you throw the third vote on Bandages, then turn around and condemn Bandages for putting the third vote on Vector?  Does not compute!  This is a meta reason, but you say Ottofar posted while you were typing, yet his post was 47 minutes before yours.  Are you BSing us?

Also, how does Bandages town flip affect your suspicions of Vector?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Rube on August 06, 2010, 01:00:42 pm
Rube:  Your last two posts of D1 are scummy.  First you throw the third vote on Bandages, then turn around and condemn Bandages for putting the third vote on Vector?  Does not compute!  This is a meta reason, but you say Ottofar posted while you were typing, yet his post was 47 minutes before yours.  Are you BSing us?

I thought Bandages was scummy for his reasoning for landing the 3rd vote on Vector, not because it was the 3rd vote. She was an easy target, having been suspected since the game began with that dissection of the players. Also Bandages backtracked after 2 votes (Ottofar's and mine) landed on himself, claiming it was all a trap for the true scum, which makes no sense for the reasons I gave in my last post. That was what made me very sure he was scum.

Obviously I was wrong, but I stand behind my reasoning. If you can find fault with my reasoning at the time, please do so. I think I was justified in coming to the conclusion that Bandages was scum, incorrect though it was.

As for the 47 minutes gap - I mostly post from work. I snatch 5 minutes here and there to write when I can. It can take a while for even a simple reply to get posted.

Also, how does Bandages town flip affect your suspicions of Vector?

After the results of day 1, I'm not sure. I'm going to re-read everything posted so far in light of Bandages being a townie, and see if that reveals anything new.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Rube on August 06, 2010, 01:06:07 pm
fakeedit: also, nice flavour Lonewolf! I'm not sure I killed enough orphaned kitten nuns in it though. :P
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Thendash on August 06, 2010, 01:59:40 pm
Shibdib, your participation is very lacking.  Why do you think Scatterbrain was chosen to be killed?

Thendash: Same question to you.  Also, you wanted Bandages lynched per your last post- are you happy that he was?

Rube:  Your last two posts of D1 are scummy.  First you throw the third vote on Bandages, then turn around and condemn Bandages for putting the third vote on Vector?  Does not compute!  This is a meta reason, but you say Ottofar posted while you were typing, yet his post was 47 minutes before yours.  Are you BSing us?

Also, how does Bandages town flip affect your suspicions of Vector?
Toaster, you've come out of lurking twice now to call me out for lurking and have posted nothing in between those accusations, where as I have(a rather long post infact). I think you need to get more involved if you want to call people lurkers. Am I happy a towny was lynched? Of course not, I would have much rathered if he was scum. But I still stand by what I said, his posts were confusing people which is bad since all our focus should be on finding scum, not figuring out the meaning of his posts. Why do I think Scatterbrain was killed? He was a replacement, an unknown factor which is potentially dangerous to the scum. Last game me and weirdbeard used out first nightkill to kill diablous which was a replacement and then tried to frame his death on someone. My words of rather little wisdom, if someone tries to connect you with the death of scatterbrain, then be suspicious of them. You are starting to connect his death with me and thus the FOS.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: shibdib on August 06, 2010, 03:35:48 pm
Shibdib, your participation is very lacking.  Why do you think Scatterbrain was chosen to be killed?

Thendash: Same question to you.  Also, you wanted Bandages lynched per your last post- are you happy that he was?

Rube:  Your last two posts of D1 are scummy.  First you throw the third vote on Bandages, then turn around and condemn Bandages for putting the third vote on Vector?  Does not compute!  This is a meta reason, but you say Ottofar posted while you were typing, yet his post was 47 minutes before yours.  Are you BSing us?

Also, how does Bandages town flip affect your suspicions of Vector?

? What are you talking about not active. And he was clearly killed because me and him were onto something.

Vector Has avoided any pressure on themselves by redirecting it too other innocent people.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Toaster on August 06, 2010, 03:48:24 pm
Thendash:  You misinterpreted my post.  I just wanted your answer to "Why do you think Scatterbrain was chosen to be killed?"  I don't think you're lurking any more.


Shibdib:  You had four posts in day 1:  a random vote with no question, an apology for editing, a bandwagon vote based off USEC's joke, and a claim that you'll actually play since there's an extension.  That is not participating.

If you think Vector killed Scatterbrain for voting him, why do you think she picked him over you?

Rube: It just struck me as odd the way you only voted him after someone else second voted him.  If you think someone is the scummiest person in the game, why not vote them?  Follow your intuition and reasoning, not the crowd.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 06, 2010, 04:10:28 pm
shibdib, how can you be on something if you barely posted at all? Scatterbrain has had half as many posts as you, but had more content into them.

(RANT)

Scatterbrain was probably not killed because he was onto something. His (her?) only vote was for Vector. Vector had better people voting against her. Rube for instance. I am surprised that you would even say that you and him were onto something. Did you PM him? Did you talk together in this thread? Do you even have any prove that you worked with him? No.

It seems to me that you are using scatterbrains death in a clearly scummy way. You give no more proof that Scatterbrain was onto something other than that he was killed. If he was killed because he was onto something, why wasn't Rube or Bandages killed? They seemed to have more evidence against Vector than Scatterbrain.

(RANT OVER)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Vector on August 06, 2010, 05:21:47 pm
Vector Has avoided any pressure on themselves by redirecting it too other innocent people.

I'd like to see some evidence of this.  You're starting to look like Bandages.


Vote comes later, after I've had a chance to reread.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Bandages has been lynched! Send in your Night Actions!
Post by: Rube on August 06, 2010, 05:50:33 pm
Rube: It just struck me as odd the way you only voted him after someone else second voted him.  If you think someone is the scummiest person in the game, why not vote them?  Follow your intuition and reasoning, not the crowd.

I've stated my opinion on nolynchs for town earlier (I believe they aren't good). It was approaching the end of the day 1, and I would rather have had my second choice (Vector) lynched than for a nolynch to occur.
Title: Beginner's Mafia 13 -Scatterbrain killed? Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 06, 2010, 08:52:24 pm
Flavor's up.

Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Ottofar - {0}
shibdib - {1} USEC_OFFICER
Vector - {1} shibdib
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {1} Toaster

Not Voting:

Thendash, Ottofar, Vector, Rube

Day ends Wednesday at 8:00pm CST.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Bandages on August 06, 2010, 09:15:10 pm
Can I get spoiled spektate, please?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Toaster on August 06, 2010, 09:55:36 pm
Rube:  Fair enough.  Unvote.

Ottofar:  Since the lynch, who has gone up on your scumdar?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Ottofar on August 07, 2010, 06:09:47 am
Well.

Shibdib seems to try to get Vector lynched, based on that he and Scatterbrain were voting for Vector.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Vector on August 07, 2010, 11:01:21 am
Well.

Shibdib seems to try to get Vector lynched, based on that he and Scatterbrain were voting for Vector.

... Yes, Ottofar, that is what we do in this game.  We try to lynch people.  You're going to have to provide some sort of reasoning, because both you and shibdib are being ridiculous at this point.

Righto.

Shibdib, please provide reasoning.  You've plunked multiple votes on people for what appears to be no reason at this point, which is really not acceptable at this stage of the game.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Ottofar on August 07, 2010, 12:22:42 pm
@Vector, I was meaning to say, that as scum, he might've killed Scatterbrain in order to make you look like scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Toaster on August 07, 2010, 11:27:46 pm
Well.
Shibdib seems to try to get Vector lynched, based on that he and Scatterbrain were voting for Vector.

@Vector, I was meaning to say, that as scum, he might've killed Scatterbrain in order to make you look like scum.

Ok, good.  You have a suspicion.  Why are you not following up on it?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Vector on August 09, 2010, 02:06:05 am
All right.  I'm going to be farming for the next 2-3 days, so I may not be able to post before the day ends.  Sorry for the short notice--it wasn't exactly planned very far in advance.

That said, Ottofar.  I'm really sick of people attacking others with no/little reason this far into the game.  I also feel like you're buddying up to me, seeing as you keep attacking whoever's bothering me at a given time.  Keep your white-knighting out of Mafia.

Same goes for you, Shibdib (as far as attacks go).  Clean up your act.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Ottofar on August 09, 2010, 08:05:28 am
Well.
Shibdib seems to try to get Vector lynched, based on that he and Scatterbrain were voting for Vector.

@Vector, I was meaning to say, that as scum, he might've killed Scatterbrain in order to make you look like scum.

Ok, good.  You have a suspicion.  Why are you not following up on it?
I'd like to see Shibdib say something.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Toaster on August 09, 2010, 12:46:14 pm
Then ask him a question.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Scatterbrain on August 09, 2010, 01:28:45 pm
<inconsequential, self-referential spectator post; apologies if this is against the rules>

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Ottofar on August 09, 2010, 02:27:13 pm
Shibdib, there's not a chance you're lurking on purpose?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: shibdib on August 09, 2010, 02:32:52 pm
I'm just lurking caquse its funny how you guys follow vectors advice like the bible.. he/she has managed to direct attention towards me by repeating themselves in 3 seperate posts on this page alone. Apparently I'm the only one to find this odd as they did the same thing the first day against someone else.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: shibdib on August 09, 2010, 02:33:24 pm
Der.. last page.. didnt realize my post would start a new page  >:(
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Toaster on August 09, 2010, 03:00:48 pm
So instead of refuting the points brought against you, you deflect attention to someone voting you?  That's pretty scummy, shibdib.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 -Scatterbrain killed? Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 09, 2010, 06:34:34 pm
Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Ottofar - {1} Vector
shibdib - {3} USEC_OFFICER, Ottofar, Toaster
Vector - {1} shibdib
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Thendash, Rube

Day ends Wednesday at 8:00pm CST.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Thendash on August 10, 2010, 01:09:29 am
I'm requesting a sub. I just don't have the time or will to continue on with this game. Sorry guys(and gal).
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Rube on August 10, 2010, 04:16:36 am
Toaster: What made you realise Bandages was town here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1457386#msg1457386)?

An unrelated observation: Scatterbrain was night killed. He was an unknown player, having joined just before the end of D1. This makes him suspicious - he's a wildcard to the Town, something they don't yet understand and may fear.

Why night kill an unknown and suspicious player over any of the less suspicious players we have? One reason may be that the less suspicious players are the scum.

Imagine you are scum, and it is night. You must kill a townie. You have 3 scummy townies and 1 townie that never gets suspected to pick from. You would kill the unsuspected townie. This would leave the remaining townies left with only scummy choices, making the game harder for them.

Imagine the above situation, only the scum IS the townie that never gets suspected. They can only pick from the 3 scummy townies now, so they pick the least scummy of the 3 (the least 'valuable'). The townies would see a scummy townie getting night killed while the unsuspected townie (who is actually scum) remains alive.

I believe we are in the above situation. Of course there are other explanations, but they delve into WIFOM logic.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Ottofar on August 10, 2010, 06:58:51 am
Toaster: What made you realise Bandages was town here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1457386#msg1457386)?

An unrelated observation: Scatterbrain was night killed. He was an unknown player, having joined just before the end of D1. This makes him suspicious - he's a wildcard to the Town, something they don't yet understand and may fear.

Why night kill an unknown and suspicious player over any of the less suspicious players we have? One reason may be that the less suspicious players are the scum.

Imagine you are scum, and it is night. You must kill a townie. You have 3 scummy townies and 1 townie that never gets suspected to pick from. You would kill the unsuspected townie. This would leave the remaining townies left with only scummy choices, making the game harder for them.

Imagine the above situation, only the scum IS the townie that never gets suspected. They can only pick from the 3 scummy townies now, so they pick the least scummy of the 3 (the least 'valuable'). The townies would see a scummy townie getting night killed while the unsuspected townie (who is actually scum) remains alive.

I believe we are in the above situation. Of course there are other explanations, but they delve into WIFOM logic.

Imagine a situation, where you are scum, and you were in the top two suspects in the game. Imagine, you night kill the "wild card", and then accuse the least suspicious player of being scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D2 has 36 hours remaining! (Replacement Requested)
Post by: Toaster on August 10, 2010, 08:10:56 am
Rube:  Nothing specific.  Neither player struck me as particularly scummy.  It's always possible that two town get misguided and start attacking each other, and I think that's what happened there.

Regarding your observation- for what purpose did you post that?  You don't come to any real conclusions with it, and all it does is muddy the waters.  If you use something like that to make an accusation, great, but seeding doubt and not attacking with it doesn't help anyone but scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D2 has 36 hours remaining! (Replacement Requested)
Post by: ToonyMan on August 10, 2010, 12:28:45 pm
Hypothetical possibilities after hypothetical possibilities.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D2 has 36 hours remaining! (Replacement Requested)
Post by: shibdib on August 10, 2010, 09:49:48 pm
I'm not even gonna bother arguing anymore
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D2 has 36 hours remaining! (Replacement Requested)
Post by: Toaster on August 10, 2010, 10:49:03 pm
In Mafia, that's basically saying "lynch me now please."  Sure about that one?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D2 has 36 hours remaining! (Replacement Requested)
Post by: Rube on August 11, 2010, 05:58:03 am
Rube:  Nothing specific.  Neither player struck me as particularly scummy.  It's always possible that two town get misguided and start attacking each other, and I think that's what happened there.

What makes you think Vector is town? I've asked you this before (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1445706#msg1445706), and you never really answered me.

You called Bandages being Town, but didn't seem interested in defending him beyond that when it was obvious he was going to be lynched. Why were you okay with a townie being lynched?

Regarding your observation- for what purpose did you post that?  You don't come to any real conclusions with it, and all it does is muddy the waters.  If you use something like that to make an accusation, great, but seeding doubt and not attacking with it doesn't help anyone but scum.

I was just interested to see who would jump on me for accusing the 'unsuspicious' players of being scum, and why. I didn't get much of a reaction anyway. For the record, I don't think there are any unsuspicious players in Mafia. Being unsuspicious is suspicious in itself.

Imagine a situation, where you are scum, and you were in the top two suspects in the game. Imagine, you night kill the "wild card", and then accuse the least suspicious player of being scum.

I think you're trying to place ideas in people's heads. I'm one of the top two suspects, am I? And who was I accusing of being scum? A name would be helpful.

Ottofar, your strategy so far seems to involve attacking whoever last acted vaguely scummy. Your accusations never seem to take into consideration how a player has acted across the game, only their last post and anything you can dig up in it. I don't know why a townie would act like this. I can think of a few reasons why scum would.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 -Scatterbrain killed? Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 11, 2010, 05:58:34 am
Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Ottofar - {2} Vector, Rube
shibdib - {3} USEC_OFFICER, Ottofar, Toaster
Vector - {1} shibdib
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Thendash

Day ends This Evening at 8:00pm CST.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D2 has 36 hours remaining! (Replacement Requested)
Post by: Toaster on August 11, 2010, 09:42:27 am
Rube:  Nothing specific.  Neither player struck me as particularly scummy.  It's always possible that two town get misguided and start attacking each other, and I think that's what happened there.

What makes you think Vector is town? I've asked you this before (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1445706#msg1445706), and you never really answered me.

You called Bandages being Town, but didn't seem interested in defending him beyond that when it was obvious he was going to be lynched. Why were you okay with a townie being lynched?

Nothing she's done has struck me as particularly scummy.  I looked at the argument, tried to figure out which one was scum, and decided I doubted either one was.  There were others I wanted to focus on at that time, like Thendash.

Unless I'm extremely sure someone is town, I'm not going to defend anyone.  If a person is getting votes, it's probably because they were acting scummy.  The only defense I'd mount is an attack on the people I feel are most scummy.  If I can get scum to crack and everyone lynches them instead, then I've done my job.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D2 has 36 hours remaining! (Replacement Requested)
Post by: Toaster on August 11, 2010, 09:43:09 am
Lonewolf:  You missed Rube's Ottofar vote.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D2 has 36 hours remaining! (Replacement Requested)
Post by: shibdib on August 11, 2010, 03:41:46 pm
In Mafia, that's basically saying "lynch me now please."  Sure about that one?

Go ahead, ill bet real money that vector is scum
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 -Scatterbrain killed? Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 11, 2010, 06:27:32 pm
Votecount:
Thendash - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Ottofar - {2} Vector, Rube
shibdib - {3} USEC_OFFICER, Ottofar, Toaster
Vector - {1} shibdib
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Thendash

Day ends in 20 minutes at 8:00pm CST.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Almost Over!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 11, 2010, 09:32:46 pm
"I don't need to take this," said shibdib, moving to the door.

Toaster blocked his path. "What?  No more to say?  Seems mighty suspicious to me."

"Vector's scum, and every last one of you is dancing to her tune.  If you can't see that, I'm not sticking around to get killed."  He shoved Toaster out of the way, then started sprinting.

USEC_OFFICER grabbed the rope and rushed after him, slipping the base of the noose through the loop as he ran.  With a quick twirl, he hurled the make-shift lasso at shibdib, catching it about his neck.  A sharp tug, and shibdib's head snapped backwards, cracking on the pavement.

Empty pockets, an empty car, and an empty home are all that your subsequent efforts unveil.  No weapons, no incriminating documents, no badge, and no medical supplies.  He was, indeed, just another neighbor.

The day has ended.

shibdib has been lynched!

shibdib was a Townie!

Night has begun!  Send in your night actions!

Day Three begins on Thursday at 8:00pm CST, or whenever all the night actions have arrived.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3 Start! Beware the wrath of the mod!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 12, 2010, 11:42:22 pm
Arriving back at the church, you find a corpse hanging from the rafters by its wrists.  The lower half is in tatters, the upper half unrecognizable.  Only after all of you have gathered do you find that Thendash is missing from your ranks.

Thendash has been killed!

Thendash was a Townie.

Day 3 has begun!

Votecount:
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
Ottofar - {0}
Vector - {0}
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

USEC_OFFICER, Ottofar, Vector, Toaster, Rube

Day ends on Tuesday at 8:00pm CST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Rube on August 13, 2010, 02:49:36 am
Have we got a cop? Mind sharing your info?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: webadict on August 13, 2010, 09:21:21 am
So... no replacement needed?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Toaster on August 13, 2010, 02:26:19 pm
Welcome to lylo!

For starters, Rube's right- if you're a cop, now is the time to claim.  If you're a doctor, continue to not tell us that.  Secondly, now is the time to vote with caution, since scum has 40% of the vote.

Looking back on the votes for day 1, everyone who has flipped so far was not in on the Bandages lynch.  Rube had the third vote on Bandages, which is the classic bandwagon vote number.  Day 2 is less helpful since Thendash didn't vote.

Anyway, on to questioning.

USEC:  Why did you not vote day 1?  Also, your only day 2 post started out by pointing out that shibdib wasn't posting enough.  Do you not see an inconsistency there?  Did the bad reaction to your D1 joke scare you away from participating?

Ottofar:  You're doing better than in some other games I've been with you in, but your attacks still seem lackluster and me-too.  Who do you suspect at this point?

Vector:  Are you glad that the person who wanted a replace was NKed?

Rube:  I keep getting the feeling that you're trying to drive other players around to your view.  It's fine if you have good reason to think someone is scum, but I think you're more interested in having people agree with you than finding the scum.  Also, why do you want to know why I think people are town?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 13, 2010, 03:36:43 pm
Vector:  Are you glad that the person who wanted a replace was NKed?

Yes and no.  Knowing that he was a townie and Webadict could have replaced him, I'd say it's unfortunate.  The worst thing in the world, though, is someone who needs to be replaced at Lylo (especially scum)--that completely screws over the town's ability to read the guy, and often nets a pretty decisive win for the mafia.  So, by and large, I'm going to put it down as a net positive.


Need to look back at what's been said...
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 13, 2010, 04:58:04 pm
USEC:  Why did you not vote day 1?  Also, your only day 2 post started out by pointing out that shibdib wasn't posting enough.  Do you not see an inconsistency there?  Did the bad reaction to your D1 joke scare you away from participating?

I did not vote on day one as I was almost going to be lynched. So I figured that by not posting I would: A, not be noticed (And lynched.) and B, I didn't have an idea who the scum is. Day 1 is not my strongest point. [joke](Neither is day 2, or day 3 or ...)[/joke]

As for day two, being able to post mostly once a day, I could respond at a maximum of three post. Now, being set on the idea that shibdib was scum, and being the kind of person who prefers to respond to questions, instead of making them, I had little reason to post more. (Other people responding to shibdib's post help a bit too.) The only posts I would have made in day 2 would be to tell everyone, again, that I thought shibdib was scum. What would be the point of that?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Toaster on August 13, 2010, 07:43:11 pm
USEC:  So your plan was self-preservation?  That's very passive and fairly scummy.  Yes, town lynches are bad, but town standing around and letting scum control the game is far worse.  Are your going to help your team today?

Vector:  That's what I thought you'd say.  When I saw Thendash was dead, I tried to think who would kill him.  Like you said, a late game/lylo replacement is big trouble for the town, and favors the scum.  This is because it is really disruptive to gameplay.  So why would scum NK the replace requester?  It'd be someone who wants a good fair game.  I looked at who'd do that, and you're top candidate, Vector.  I thought you may be town early on, but my doubts have been growing.  What say you to that?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 13, 2010, 07:51:31 pm
USEC:  So your plan was self-preservation?  That's very passive and fairly scummy.  Yes, town lynches are bad, but town standing around and letting scum control the game is far worse.  Are your going to help your team today?

Standing around as in voting for the person who I think is most scummy?

Also, I would like to ask Vector why she thinks that she wasn't killed in the past two nights? And no, I am not doing this because you are voting for Vector. I'm wonder why she thinks an obvoiusly good player wasn't killed. Also, the two killings seems odd to me, and I am inclined to think that one or both of the mafia are good players (Or at least not beginner.) Vector seems a good target to start at.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 13, 2010, 10:07:54 pm
Vector:  That's what I thought you'd say.  When I saw Thendash was dead, I tried to think who would kill him.  Like you said, a late game/lylo replacement is big trouble for the town, and favors the scum.  This is because it is really disruptive to gameplay.  So why would scum NK the replace requester?  It'd be someone who wants a good fair game.  I looked at who'd do that, and you're top candidate, Vector.  I thought you may be town early on, but my doubts have been growing.  What say you to that?

You may have your doubts, but I'm certain: I'm town.  If you have any scumtells you'd like me to address, I'll be more than happy to--but I don't really feel qualified to talk overmuch about my nightkill meta.  All I can do is direct you to prior games (... I'm especially proud of my work in Rysith's Semi-Bastard Mod and Beginner's Mafia 4) and allow you to make your own assessment of my playstyle.


Also, I would like to ask Vector why she thinks that she wasn't killed in the past two nights? [...] I'm wonder why she thinks an obviously good player wasn't killed. Also, the two killings seems odd to me, and I am inclined to think that one or both of the mafia are good players (Or at least not beginner.) Vector seems a good target to start at.

Probably because I drew so much attention to myself D1 and D2.  I know that if I were scum and two townies had spent a large portion of D1 going at each others' throats, and then one flipped town, I'd leave the other alive to prime for a lynch.  Then there was the mess with Shibdib saying he'd bet hard money that I was scum.

With the "Webadict WIFOM potential" (i.e., "why is a good player alive near the end of the game"), my reputation for being unstable, and all that bad feeling pointed in my direction, the scum would have to be pretty thick to want me dead.


Rube and Ottofar: have any opinions, or are you going to keep sidelining the game to death?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Toaster on August 13, 2010, 10:24:25 pm
Standing around as in voting for the person who I think is most scummy?

Also, I would like to ask Vector why she thinks that she wasn't killed in the past two nights? And no, I am not doing this because you are voting for Vector. I'm wonder why she thinks an obvoiusly good player wasn't killed. Also, the two killings seems odd to me, and I am inclined to think that one or both of the mafia are good players (Or at least not beginner.) Vector seems a good target to start at.

I call a nonvote and a day with a single post standing around.

Also, this post has the strength of wet paper.  It combines passiveness, haphazard targeting, and self preservation into one big scummy treat!  Put down the kid gloves and bring out the big guns.

Vector:  I don't have specific points to bring up, but I feel strongly enough on my current arguments to put a vote on you.  Since your rebuttal consists of "I'm town, and look at my past games for meta," I can't say you've given me a reason to change my mind.

I'm not done questioning the rest of you.  I'd especially like to hear Rube's opinion of Vector.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 13, 2010, 10:40:50 pm
Vector:  I don't have specific points to bring up, but I feel strongly enough on my current arguments to put a vote on you.  Since your rebuttal consists of "I'm town, and look at my past games for meta," I can't say you've given me a reason to change my mind.

... Your attack consists of "Surely you must be scum, because you'd want to play a good game and would thus shoot yourself in the foot in order to get it."  My problem is that anything I say in response to that will be WIFOMy and largely pointless, by its very nature.

I say "look at my past games" because that will give you an unbiased view of my character and playstyle--far more than anything I can say here.  I'm more than happy to give a summary, though.

My strategy as scum is to kill off the strong players and destroy threats while keeping players who can be directed like sheep, as well as those who are entangled in arguments with each other.  I have done this over and over and over again, and have only lost twice.  Once was an accident (it was a bastard mod).  The other time I screwed up majorly and got lynched D1 by Webadict.  Rysith had to practically change the rules of his semi-bastard mod because I'd messed with the town too much.  If you look at the scumchat, I wasn't at all pleased with the modifications.  In fact, I was downright pissed.  Sure, it resurrected a town that was completely inactive, but it also negated all the work I'd done to leverage the game in my direction.

I'm a town-destroyer.  It's what I do, it's what I'm good at, and this isn't my work.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Ottofar on August 14, 2010, 06:37:29 am
Roleclaim. Cop.

Rube and Vector were clean. Or godfathers.

My vote goes to USEC, since he has been much scummier than Toaster.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 14, 2010, 03:06:16 pm
My vote goes to USEC, since he has been much scummier than Toaster.

Evidence please.

I'll need a while to think this through. The way I see it, either Rube is the godfather, or Toaster is scum, or they are both scum acting in a convincing ruse, the way Toaster has been attacking Rube.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! I like pie!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 14, 2010, 03:55:40 pm
Votecount:
USEC_OFFICER - {1} Ottofar
Ottofar - {0}
Vector - {2} Toaster, USEC_OFFICER
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Vector, Rube

Day ends on Tuesday at 8:00pm CST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 14, 2010, 04:42:28 pm
Unvote Damn it. My logic is taking me in circles. Is it legal for scum to pretend that they are the cop? Would help a lot.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 14, 2010, 04:43:46 pm
I probably should have asked the town IC about that.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 14, 2010, 04:46:07 pm
It's called falseclaiming, and it is perfectly legal.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: ToonyMan on August 14, 2010, 04:46:41 pm
Scum could pretend to be anything they want, it's town job to find out if the person is lying or not.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 14, 2010, 04:47:15 pm
Good. Give me a minute to ready an arguement.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 14, 2010, 04:58:28 pm
Or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Toaster on August 14, 2010, 10:24:33 pm
Lonewolf: My vote's currently on Vector.

Ottofar:  That makes things interesting.  Quick questions:  Which order did you scan them?  Why did you scan them?  There's a 50% chance of a godfather this game- do you think one of them is one?  If so, which one?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Rube on August 15, 2010, 03:15:33 am
Also, why do you want to know why I think people are town?

Why wouldn't I? It's always good to know the reasoning of other players - if they're town, they might reveal something I had missed. If they're scum, they may have shoddy reasoning that gives them away.

I'm not done questioning the rest of you.  I'd especially like to hear Rube's opinion of Vector.

Vector: The townies who have been night killed so far weren't the ones who were the biggest threat to the scum. They were the replacements, who were dangerous to town in an unfair fashion. These are the actions of a scum who is trying to engineer a fair beginner's game.

Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1444180#msg1444180) you claim you want to make this a good beginner's game. That would be motivation for the night kills we have seen. I've also never seen you do any convincing scumhunting. Your scumhunting seems to consist more of telling people to play better than accusing them of anything, as though you knew who was town already and wanted to give them tips on how to play. Just a vibe I was getting reading back through your posts.

Ottofor: You've garnered a lot of suspicion throughout D2. Claiming cop would be a good way to clear that suspicion.

Your vote order (Rube and Vector) implies you checked me after D1 and Vector after D2. You suspected USEC throughout D1, keeping your vote on him only to change to Bandages at the last moment. If you suspected USEC, why didn't you check him. And what did Vector do on D2 that made you check her?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! I like pie!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 15, 2010, 07:50:34 am
Fixed:

Votecount:
USEC_OFFICER - {1} Ottofar
Ottofar - {0}
Vector - {1} Toaster
Toaster - {0}
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

Vector, Rube, USEC_OFFICER

Day ends on Tuesday at 8:00pm CST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 15, 2010, 12:27:52 pm
Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1444180#msg1444180) you claim you want to make this a good beginner's game. That would be motivation for the night kills we have seen. I've also never seen you do any convincing scumhunting. Your scumhunting seems to consist more of telling people to play better than accusing them of anything, as though you knew who was town already and wanted to give them tips on how to play. Just a vibe I was getting reading back through your posts.

Because leading the attack on Bandages' flimsy argumentation isn't scumhunting, and being gone farming for most of the active portion of D2 (... if you can really call it active) isn't an acceptable excuse?

Come back when you get something solid.


Now, for USEC_OFFICER.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Toaster on August 15, 2010, 10:21:53 pm
Damn it.

I don't trust any of you.

Vector's logic appears sound, but I would expect a convincing town game out of her.  I think she's quite capable of leading a town to its ruin.  My gut has been yelling at me about Rube the whole game.  I can't put my finger on anything specific, but I don't trust him.  Ottofar I don't think likely to fakeclaim scum on his own, but I can easily see someone putting him up to it.  His claim was conveniently last, minimizing a counterclaim chance.  USEC's actions haven't been very town friendly, and if Ottofar's telling the truth, he is 100% scum.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities, based on the truth of Ottofar's claim.  I'd suspect Vector over Rube for putting Otto up to a fakeclaim, so if it is fake, I'd put our scums as Otto and Vector.  If Otto is telling the truth, that makes him town and USEC scum, and either Vector or Rube a godfather.  I'm not sure who it'd be at this point, but I'd lean Rube over Vector for a partner of USEC.  A thread reread showed their interactions regarding USEC's joke on D1 as potential distancing.  Vector's been too aggressive on USEC (ignoring the last post of hers) this game for it to be distancing, IMO.

I really want Ottofar to answer my questions- he's the key to this puzzle now.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Rube on August 16, 2010, 04:52:46 am
Okay okay okay. I've done some thinking, and this isn't as complicated as it looks. We have 3 possible outcomes.



Ottofor is town, either me or Vector is godfather; I did some quick, probably bad, math to work out how likely this is. I'm working under the assumption that there can only be one godfather and he has a 50% chance of appearing at all (correct me if I'm wrong, please!).

So there's 50% chance the godfather shows up. And a further 50% chance that Ottofor would pick the scum that is Godfather (assuming there can only be one godfather). So that's a 25% chance that one of Ottofar's checks is a godfather. Then we take into consideration that he might not have cop-checked any scum at all - there were 8 people to choose from the first night, and 5 the second night. That 25% shrinks a lot further (although the math is kinda pointless here, because Ottofor wasn't cop-checking at random).

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that Ottofor's checks include a godfather, but it'd be something of a statistical outlier.



Ottofor is scum, pretending to be cop; This begs the question, why? Roleclaiming cop will attract a lot of attention. Ottofor got 2 votes at the end of D2, and may have thought roleclaiming cop would divert that attention. Then we look at who he claims he checked - me and Vector. Why pick two people who are still alive in the game if he was lying? It'd be easier and safer to pick someone who was lynched or night killed, who we all know are townies.

Of course he could've been planning on us thinking that, cue WIFOM.

I'd like to hear his answers to all our questions. Especially which order he cop-checked me and Vector.



Ottofor is town, Toaster and USEC_OFFICER are scum; USEC has been suspected since his stand-up act flopped near the start of the game. He then lurked for much of the rest of the game, appearing again now with some well-grounded posts. If he's scum, I'd suspect he was told to be quiet after his initial few posts, then re-emerge now to spread some confusion (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1483873#msg1483873) at this crucial point.

Toaster, from what I gather, is a somewhat experienced player. I'd expect him to do well as scum. There are a few specific peculiarities I've noticed.

1. We were jumping on Vector for being an experienced, helpful player who would night kill Thendash and magwebster/Scatterbrains to keep the game fair. This is also true of Toaster.

2. There's this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1457386#msg1457386) post again. If you're wondering why I keep bringing this up, it's because it's very suspicious. Either Vector or Bandages were going to be lynched when he posted that. Why call those two people town right before one of them gets lynched? On no more evidence than a baseless hunch?

If one of them flipped scum it would make it look like Toaster was trying to protect his scumbuddy (so if you're town, why post that?). Unless he knew both of them were town - if either of them gets lynched, it gives him a strong card to play. "I said Bandages/Vector was town, and I was right! If I were scum I'd be happy to see them get lynched." His post wasn't going to change the outcome of the D1 lynch from either Bandages or Vector, it serves no purpose for a townie to say what he said (least of all an experienced player like Toaster), but it would help a clever scum.

3. His last post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1487575#msg1487575). He starts with "I don't trust any of you" then goes on to spread suspicion about everyone. Vector, then me, then Ottofor, then USEC last. That's not helpful to town at all, and I'd expect better from an experienced townie.

I agree with him on one thing though. I want to see Ottofor's answers to our questions, because this comes down to whether we think Ottofor is lying or not.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Ottofar on August 16, 2010, 07:17:37 am
I lost electricity due to a thunderstorm yesterday, sorry for my abscene.

I inspected Vector first, as she is as experienced as she is, and could indeed pose a serious threat to town, if she was scum.

Then Rube, for scumminess.

Afterwards I noticed USEC was even more scummy, and posted once d2.

@USEC, this, and much more,  is evidence that you are scummier than Toaster.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Rube on August 16, 2010, 08:20:22 am
The D3 timeline.

1. Toaster and USEC both vote for Vector here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1482095#msg1482095). For the same reason, the night kills.

2. Toaster attempts to drag me into the lynch against Vector here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1482473#msg1482473). A 3rd vote would ensure Vector gets lynched.

3. Ottofar roleclaims cop, implicating USEC and Toaster as scum. They're both suddenly and mysteriously unsure about their votes, and backtrack here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1484072#msg1484072) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1487575#msg1487575).

That seems mighty suspicious...
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Toaster on August 16, 2010, 09:06:53 am
I forgot to unvote last post.


Ottofar:  You missed a question- see below.  (changed emphasis)
Ottofar:  That makes things interesting.  Quick questions:  Which order did you scan them?  Why did you scan them?  There's a 50% chance of a godfather this game- do you think one of them is one?  If so, which one?


I'm pretty sure that I've got this figured out, but I want that answer first.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Rube on August 16, 2010, 10:29:03 am
I forgot to unvote last post.


Ottofar:  You missed a question- see below.  (changed emphasis)
Ottofar:  That makes things interesting.  Quick questions:  Which order did you scan them?  Why did you scan them?  There's a 50% chance of a godfather this game- do you think one of them is one?  If so, which one?


I'm pretty sure that I've got this figured out, but I want that answer first.

Nice try, trying to reinforce the idea that there's a 50% chance one of Ottofar's inspects was a godfather.

Ottofar had to have picked a scum to inspect to begin with. If he was picking targets at random he had a ~30% chance to inspect scum. I'm assuming Ottofar is a little more accurate than a RNG, so I'll give him a 60% chance that at least on of his targets was scum. I'm feeling generous.

He had a 50% chance to pick the scum that wasn't godfather (assuming there was only one godfather). That 60% becomes 30%.

There was a further 50% chance that no godfather was ever in this game. That 30% becomes 15%.

It's a 15% chance Ottofar inspected a godfather. Or Ottofar is lying. Or USEC and Toaster are scum. Take your pick.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Ottofar on August 16, 2010, 01:03:18 pm
Oh, sorry.

I'd guess, if I've hit godfather it is Rube, who has somewhat improved his act on d3, though.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Toaster on August 16, 2010, 01:33:42 pm
Thanks, Ottofar.

Also - I'm not very good at math, I think it's actually ~23% chance Magwebster is scum. That's higher than I would've assumed, we really need that extension...

You should have dropped math here, Rube, because yours doesn't fly.

You're pulling in irrelevant details and leaving out important ones to try to prove yourself town with statistics.  It doesn't matter who he could have scanned- it matters who he did scan.  I know I'm town.   If Ottofar's a cop, he's town.  That leaves three scum possibilities.  Since we can only have one GF, that would guarantee USEC as scum.  Rube, your best defense against the possibility of you being scum is "it's unlikely."  The way I see it, 50% is pretty good odds.

Now, it comes down to "Is Ottofar telling the truth?"  I believe his claim now, which as I said, means USEC_Officer is scum, and I'm almost positive Rube is his scum buddy.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Day One Is Underway!
Post by: Rube on August 16, 2010, 02:07:51 pm
Thanks, Ottofar.

Also - I'm not very good at math, I think it's actually ~23% chance Magwebster is scum. That's higher than I would've assumed, we really need that extension...

You should have dropped math here, Rube, because yours doesn't fly.

You're pulling in irrelevant details and leaving out important ones to try to prove yourself town with statistics.  It doesn't matter who he could have scanned- it matters who he did scan.  I know I'm town.   If Ottofar's a cop, he's town.  That leaves three scum possibilities.  Since we can only have one GF, that would guarantee USEC as scum.  Rube, your best defense against the possibility of you being scum is "it's unlikely."  The way I see it, 50% is pretty good odds.

Now, it comes down to "Is Ottofar telling the truth?"  I believe his claim now, which as I said, means USEC_Officer is scum, and I'm almost positive Rube is his scum buddy.

It's not 50%. I'm not sure I can make basic statistics like those any simpler without introducing hand puppets. Although thank you for obsfucating simple statistics in front of everyone like that. Not extremely scummy at all (hint - actually it is).

That's why I like using math, by the way. I'm not asking anyone to trust what I'm saying. They can work it out for themselves.

I'm still not 100% sure Ottofar isn't lying however. You seem too quick to bus USEC, and you're acting uncharacteristically scummy. It would be easy for you to say Ottofar was lying if you and USEC were scumbuddies, and yet you're dismissing the idea that he's lying out of hand... I think you might have something planned... In either case, now I'm sure you're scum Toaster.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! I like pie!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 16, 2010, 06:09:40 pm
Votecount:
USEC_OFFICER - {3} Ottofar, Vector, Toaster
Ottofar - {0}
Vector - {0}
Toaster - {1} Rube
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

USEC_OFFICER

Day ends on in 26 hours at 8:00pm CST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: webadict on August 16, 2010, 06:42:50 pm
Yo, USEC, whichever team you're on, you need to defend yourself.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 16, 2010, 06:53:34 pm
Webadict has been promoted from Replacement Queue Placeholder to Honorary Town IC.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Toaster on August 16, 2010, 09:50:26 pm
Again, if your best defense is math, you're hiding that you don't actually have a real case.  Math is nice and logical, but it doesn't apply here.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Ottofar on August 16, 2010, 10:52:25 pm
How about we shorten the day, if you're sure of your votes.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Rube on August 17, 2010, 06:12:39 am
Again, if your best defense is math, you're hiding that you don't actually have a real case.  Math is nice and logical, but it doesn't apply here.

Please, you've already thoroughly proven you're scum. The only question now is whether USEC or Ottofar is your scumbuddy.

There's this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1488449#msg1488449) that points to Toaster being scumbuddies with USEC. Toaster could be bussing USEC, and setting the scene to accuse somebody else of having been USEC's scumbuddy in D4.

However there is growing evidence that Ottofar might be Toaster's scumbuddy. Toaster acts as though he's confirmed something from Ottofar's post here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1488958#msg1488958), which apparently is enough for him to arbitrarily decide Ottofar is a cop. If Ottofar was town it would be easy for Toaster to claim Ottofar was lying, get him lynched and win the game.

Perhaps Ottofar claimed cop to implicate both Toaster and USEC as scum, knowing that USEC would get lynched first (thus winning the game for scum). He said as much here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1488370#msg1488370). Now he's trying to get the day shortened while the majority of the votes rest on USEC.

I don't know which is correct. I know that Toaster is scum in either one though.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 03:36:54 pm
Sorry everybody. Was sick yesterday with a terrible headache. Reading everything now.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 04:37:31 pm
Answering questions:

TEXT

Wow. That was a lot of text. By (Generalized) defence consists of this:

1. I am a passive, defensive, cynical, defeatist person. That's who I am. That's how I play. That's how I played for 100% of my posts.

2. I don't like to post to things that other people have already pointed out/said. This is also my second game. If I'm not posting that much. ie. day two, other people have already said what I wanted to say/I have very little idea on how to scumhunt/I don't like posting for the sake of posting. If I don't see the point of posting something, I won't post. This can happen a lot. (Like day two.)

3. I post when I think, hard. Like when Ottofar said he was cop. It's a kneejerk reaction.

I realize that this will not satisfy you, but it's who I am. It's my second game, so I can't really point out any of my other games, like you did. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59066.msg1323661#msg1323661)

Ottofor is scum, pretending to be cop; This begs the question, why? Roleclaiming cop will attract a lot of attention. Ottofor got 2 votes at the end of D2, and may have thought roleclaiming cop would divert that attention. Then we look at who he claims he checked - me and Vector. Why pick two people who are still alive in the game if he was lying? It'd be easier and safer to pick someone who was lynched or night killed, who we all know are townies.

Of course he could've been planning on us thinking that, cue WIFOM.

I'd like to hear his answers to all our questions. Especially which order he cop-checked me and Vector.

My idea was that this placed the least scummy looking person (Toaster) with the most (Me.) It also looks like to me that Rube and Vector would be more likely to believe him. And so, you'll vote for me.

@USEC, this, and much more,  is evidence that you are scummier than Toaster.

Can't you spend the three seconds to come up with more reasons why I am scum? Because it sounds like you have a lot of them. Tell me more.

The D3 timeline.

1. Toaster and USEC both vote for Vector here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1482095#msg1482095). For the same reason, the night kills.

So you think I'm scum for trying to figure out who's scum? So what if me and toaster both voted for Vector? After all, you, Vector and Ottofar are all voting for me, are you not? Does that mean that you all are scum?

3. Ottofar roleclaims cop, implicating USEC and Toaster as scum. They're both suddenly and mysteriously unsure about their votes, and backtrack here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1484072#msg1484072) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1487575#msg1487575).

So your opinions didn't change when Ottofar said he was town? I got new information, and had to reassess my vote. It can take me a while to think everything out.

Now, my logic states that if I decide that Ottofar is not scum, I vote for Toaster.

Here's the chances that people are scum, based on the three possiblities, that Ottofar's claim provides:


Use it yourselves.

Anyway, since I know whether I am scum or not, I can eliminate any instances where I am/could be scum. Now, the revised list, with USEC_OFFICER as 100% town:


Now, as you can see, the first possiblity is impossible (from my Point of View). After I eliminate it, I see that if Ottofar is telling the truth, someone must be scum, with Toaster having a 100% chance of being scum. However, if I decide Ottofar is lying, (And therefore scum), I vote for him.

The only problem that I am having is that toaster is a good player, both town and scum, (Which sucks, as this is my second game.) and that Ottofar so far as posted as he usually does. (At least, in all the mafia games which I've read that he's been in.)

I'll call extend, to give me more time to think.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Rube on August 17, 2010, 04:46:12 pm
So you think I'm scum for trying to figure out who's scum? So what if me and toaster both voted for Vector? After all, you, Vector and Ottofar are all voting for me, are you not? Does that mean that you all are scum?

Was this directed at me? It was inserted into a quote of mine so I'll assume it was - no, I'm not voting for you. I'm voting for Toaster. Also there's only 2 scum.

Anyway yeah, I'll back an extend. Have you got anything you'd like to add to the recent discussion, Vector? You're being awfully quiet so close to what could be the end of the game.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 04:53:52 pm
So you think I'm scum for trying to figure out who's scum? So what if me and toaster both voted for Vector? After all, you, Vector and Ottofar are all voting for me, are you not? Does that mean that you all are scum?

Was this directed at me? It was inserted into a quote of mine so I'll assume it was - no, I'm not voting for you. I'm voting for Toaster. Also there's only 2 scum.

Anyway yeah, I'll back an extend. Have you got anything you'd like to add to the recent discussion, Vector? You're being awfully quiet so close to what could be the end of the game.

It was in a quote that I hadn't seen yet. And of course I know your voting for toaster.

(What makes you think that I had more than three scums in my post? You know what I mean.)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 05:15:53 pm
I don't have much to say, to be honest.  First I was waiting for USEC_OFFICER's reply, and then I was thinking about it and all the probabilistic messes I haven't felt like computing through.


To address a few salient points, however:

I'm a behavioralist, and the evidence is telling me that USEC_OFFICER is scum.  I don't take "I am a passive, defeatist, cynical, defensive person" as an excuse anymore, since I once gave exactly the same argument to Webadict in a scum game.  ... My first scum game, to be precise, which was also my first game.  This is the first reason why I'm not giving him any slack.  The other reason is that "hmm, who's the godfather" slip.

As far as the "who is the other scum" question, I'm not sure--I usually do things on a case by case basis.  I honestly don't understand the need for probabilities and whatnot, because all this game really requires is "impossible," "possible," or "absolute,"  and a little linear ordering in-between.  The recent posts haven't really seemed pointful, since they're mostly a wave of number-crunching that obscures the behavioral facts.  As such, my eyes kind of glazed over and I didn't respond.

In short, I'm going to need to reread the thread yet again to find USEC's partner.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 06:12:09 pm
I don't take "I am a passive, defeatist, cynical, defensive person" as an excuse anymore

All I can do is direct you to prior games (... I'm especially proud of my work in Rysith's Semi-Bastard Mod and Beginner's Mafia 4) and allow you to make your own assessment of my playstyle.

So its okay if you have played a lot of games?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 06:19:01 pm
I don't take "I am a passive, defeatist, cynical, defensive person" as an excuse anymore

All I can do is direct you to prior games (... I'm especially proud of my work in Rysith's Semi-Bastard Mod and Beginner's Mafia 4) and allow you to make your own assessment of my playstyle.

So its okay if you have played a lot of games?

Don't be a fool, USEC.  We both know that you can see more clearly than this.

There is a significant difference between "I am a scummy person, please don't lynch me--and also ignore all those other accusations you levied against me and I ignored" and "That's not my scum playstyle, but don't take my word for it.  Look yourself."

You see, I am not playing "pin the nightkill on the donkey."  That game is pointless.  We all know it.  All I can do in my defense, when people are voting me in hopes that they've thrown the darts at the right donkey, is say "I am not donkey-shaped.  Have some photographs from a couple of years ago.  I know I may have morphed into a donkey or a horse or something like that, so you can't take my word for it--but have some pics.  That's me in Bermuda."

What you are doing, my dear sir, is saying "I know I look like a wolf but that's because I have this unfortunate genetic disease that makes me kind of... wolfy!  I'm really a sheep!  Really really!  And every picture you'll ever find of me is pretty undistinguishable from a wolf, but just take my word and wolfy smell for it, hokay?"
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Rube on August 17, 2010, 06:21:00 pm
The game essentially boils down to guessing. Educating guessing, but still, an educated guess is in part random. Probability exists to find out how likely a random outcome is. Dismissing probability out of hand because you don't understand it handicaps you, heavily.

Behaviourlism has nothing to do with it. This is a forum game. I could go trawl through other games on this and other forums and wholesale copy-paste townies posts to use as my own. Your behaviourlism would have nothing to go on because scum could literally be using the words and inflections of geniune townie posts. It's a nice idea that you can play Sherlock and psychologically profile everyone based on how often they correctly punctualise, but it doesn't work when people can take hours to carefully edit their every post. It would only work if we were all sat around a table.

Town wins by observing who was lynched, who was night killed, who buddied with who, and who attacked who. Then we look at who would benefit most as scum from all those events, and make a guess. It's all probability.

I'm just giving some advice, I don't expect to change your mind. For better or worse D3 draws to an end. I would've liked to get the odds a little higher in our favor, but we'll see where the dice land. Maybe we'll get lucky.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! I like pie!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 17, 2010, 06:24:53 pm
Votecount:
USEC_OFFICER - {3} Ottofar, Vector, Toaster
Ottofar - {0}
Vector - {0}
Toaster - {1} Rube
Rube - {0}

Not Voting:

USEC_OFFICER

Day ends on in 90 minutes at 8:00pm CST

One shorten request heard.  Two more required to shorten.
Two extension requests heard.  One more required to extend.

Note: One can Oppose Extension or Oppose Shorten to negate a vote for such.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 06:35:31 pm
Dismissing probability out of hand because you don't understand it handicaps you, heavily.

I am a student of mathematics.  I understand statistics.

I also know the people who play game theory and mathematics here, and they aren't the winners.  They're the ones who can't see clearly enough to read behavior.


Town wins by observing who was lynched, who was night killed, who buddied with who, and who attacked who. Then we look at who would benefit most as scum from all those events, and make a guess. It's all probability.

It works better when you feel than when you think.  It's about listening to the words, not about your dry meanderings.  Probability is nothing.  Townies buddy.  Scum go on roaring angry rampages.  Both OMGUS, drop scumtells, and so on.  It's about provoking reactions, attacking, curb-stomping when you have to.  See what you can see, and so on.


It's a nice idea that you can play Sherlock and psychologically profile everyone based on how often they correctly punctualise, but it doesn't work when people can take hours to carefully edit their every post. It would only work if we were all sat around a table.

They can, but will they?  How about the people who carefully punctualize before the game, and then during it start using run-on sentences?  What about the people with loads of posts who end up hardly posting in the game itself, or about those who suddenly start mis-punctuating when you attack them?  How about the shy folks who suddenly turn into lions?

It's all about data, my friend.  I get it my way.  You get it yours.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 06:48:02 pm
I don't take "I am a passive, defeatist, cynical, defensive person" as an excuse anymore

All I can do is direct you to prior games (... I'm especially proud of my work in Rysith's Semi-Bastard Mod and Beginner's Mafia 4) and allow you to make your own assessment of my playstyle.

So its okay if you have played a lot of games?

Don't be a fool, USEC.  We both know that you can see more clearly than this.

There is a significant difference between "I am a scummy person, please don't lynch me--and also ignore all those other accusations you levied against me and I ignored" and "That's not my scum playstyle, but don't take my word for it.  Look yourself."

You see, I am not playing "pin the nightkill on the donkey."  That game is pointless.  We all know it.  All I can do in my defense, when people are voting me in hopes that they've thrown the darts at the right donkey, is say "I am not donkey-shaped.  Have some photographs from a couple of years ago.  I know I may have morphed into a donkey or a horse or something like that, so you can't take my word for it--but have some pics.  That's me in Bermuda."

What you are doing, my dear sir, is saying "I know I look like a wolf but that's because I have this unfortunate genetic disease that makes me kind of... wolfy!  I'm really a sheep!  Really really!  And every picture you'll ever find of me is pretty undistinguishable from a wolf, but just take my word and wolfy smell for it, hokay?"

So I can use it as a defence if I play a lot of games? Vector, might I ask you how long it has been since you played mafia, besides this one?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 06:51:49 pm
Oh, my god.

You seem to not actually understand this concept.  I'm not going to explain it again, because apparently my analogies flew over your head--but if you reread what I said and consider it, it should make sense.

To give it a final whirl:

I was accused of having a bad case of shoot-yourself-in-the-foot-as-scum-itis.  I said that I did not previously have such a case, and gave some evidence in case anyone cared.

You were accused of being scummy.  You said "that is what I do, yes.  Happy WIFOM :D"



Also, it's been something like 3 or 4 months.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 06:54:43 pm
So you did not look at this hyperlink at all, to see how I played in my only game so far? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59066.msg1323661#msg1323661)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 07:09:51 pm
So you did not look at this hyperlink at all, to see how I played in my only game so far? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59066.msg1323661#msg1323661)

Funny.  You look much more relaxed and active over there, as opposed to your cringing self in this game.

Thanks for the meta-evidence.  It helps my case.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 07:20:16 pm
So you did not look at this hyperlink at all, to see how I played in my only game so far? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59066.msg1323661#msg1323661)

Funny.  You look much more relaxed and active over there, as opposed to your cringing self in this game.

Thanks for the meta-evidence.  It helps my case.

Probably because this is day three (Which I didn't get too.) And really? You don't think I'm cringing? Mind you, my heart is racing now, which is probably why I'm less relaxed and more cringing. (Which you won't believe/think it makes me scum.)

FAKEEDIT: Rereading it, I believe I seem more relaxed as I had developed a devil-may-care attitude (Notice the fact that I call a shorten on me.) Now I feel that I'm going to make everybody lose, which is probably affecting me. (A lot.)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 07:21:49 pm
Overreactions to something as simple as this do tend to look rather scummy, yes.

By the way, I only compared D1 in both cases.  I didn't think it'd be fair, otherwise.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 07:24:42 pm
Overreactions to something as simple as this do tend to look rather scummy, yes.

By the way, I only compared D1 in both cases.  I didn't think it'd be fair, otherwise.

Well then what I say still stands. I felt that I dodged a bullet, and hid. Dying twice on day one would suck.

As for overractions: It's what I do.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 07:28:22 pm
Well then what I say still stands. I felt that I dodged a bullet, and hid. Dying twice on day one would suck.

As for overractions: It's what I do.

If you are town, I will eat you alive when this game is over.  SERIOUSLY, man.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 07:31:10 pm
Well then what I say still stands. I felt that I dodged a bullet, and hid. Dying twice on day one would suck.

As for overractions: It's what I do.

If you are town, I will eat you alive when this game is over.  SERIOUSLY, man.

I wouldn't. I'm too stringy. Very little meat as well.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 07:33:44 pm
Perfect: I'm a vegetarian.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 17, 2010, 07:34:06 pm
Also, I would like to say shorten, prefering to end with a joke and not a heartattack.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: webadict on August 17, 2010, 07:52:58 pm
Dude, don't shorten your own death. That's just bad because your team loses.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 17, 2010, 09:25:19 pm
"Just kill me already.", USEC_OFFICER cried, taking up the rope and placing the noose around his neck. "There's no point in going on now.  They've won."

"You just want us to believe that."  Toaster replied, taking up the other end and throwing it over the rafters.

Ottofar pulled up a chair, and USEC stepped up.

"Numbers don't lie, Vector!" Rube pleaded.  "Toaster has to be scum!  Help me out here!"

Vector said nothing, watching USEC intently.

"See you on the other side." He said flatly, and stepped down to his doom.

The last light of the setting sun flared through the arch of the doorway, illuminating the swaying body, then all was dark.

Silence reigned for a few precious seconds, before it was shattered by a voice tinged maliciously discordant.

"I think she's quite capable of leading a town to its ruin."

"Of course she is, my dear Toaster. Of course she is."

NGAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Two shots rang out, accompanied by a distressed peal from the church bell. 

Rube fell forward, blood flowing from his chest.

"My numbers..." he coughed, "they can't have been wrong."

Toaster stumbled, surprised but unhurt, and looked around.

Ottofar had a gun trained on Rube, Vector was in the entrance, pointing her own gun upward.

Both Toaster and Ottofar looked at her quizzically, united briefly in confusion.

"What?" Vector said, shrugging.  "I thought it'd be dramatic."

Ottofar sighed, and Toasters expression shifted quickly from puzzlement to fear as Vector lowered her gun to him.

"You shouldn't have trusted me."

She smiled as she pulled the trigger.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 17, 2010, 09:25:57 pm
The day has ended.

USEC_OFFICER has been lynched!

USEC_OFFICER was a Townie!

Ottofar, Godfather, has won!
Vector, Roleblocker, has won!

Roles:
1. Thendash - Townie
2. USEC_OFFICER - Townie
3. Bandages - Townie
4. Scatterbrain - Townie
5. Ottofar - Mafia - Godfather
6. shibdib - Townie
7. Vector - Mafia - Roleblocker
8. Toaster - Townie
9. Rube - Townie

MafiaChat (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/RTjgi4UMqp85t)
DeadChat (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/3MzdkdhyVRM)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - D3! Replacement requester renightkilled!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 17, 2010, 09:27:13 pm
Role PMs:
Quote from: Townie
You are a Townie.  Each day you may vote on one person who you would like to lynch.  Majority vote wins.  In the case of a tie, a NoLynch will occur.  You win when both Mafia members are dead.


Quote from: Godfather
Supreme in your domain, you are the Godfather.  Leader of the Scum, you run a smooth operation with no leaks or strings leading back to yourself.  Should a Cop attempt to investigate you in the night, his efforts will be fruitless, and he will see you as just another Townie.  A rich, influential townie.

Your right hand man is Vector, a skilled Roleblocker.  Speak with him in private here (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/RTjgi4UMqp85t).


Quote from: Roleblocker
As a former member of an elite spec ops unit, you make an excellent Roleblocker.  Your skills in sabotage are second to none, and find frequent use as a member of the local Mafia.  Each night, you may select one person to suppress, and any actions they attempt will fail utterly.

Your comrade is Ottofar. Speak with him in private here (http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/RTjgi4UMqp85t).

N1 Actions:
Quote from: Vector -> Toaster
When you arrive at your home, you swiftly don black sweats.  You place your hockey mask and night-vision goggles into a bag and make your way to Toaster's place.  Surveillance immediately finds him sitting at his table, reading a book, in full view of the window.  An assassination just waiting to happen, but that's not why you're here.  You set up shop in the abandoned house across the street, and wait patiently until sunrise, checking constantly to see that Toaster is still present.  At midnight, he gets up and goes to bed, enjoying the sleep you deny yourself.

Toaster Roleblocked

Quote from: Ottorfar -> Scatterbrain
Returning home, you set to work on your one private joy.  Cooking.  With masterful craftsmanship you fashion a  meal of filet mignon wrapped in bacon, whipped potatoes with homemade gravy, and rocky-road ice cream for dessert.  Then you call up Scatterbrain, and ask him if he'd like a meal.  He accepts, and on arrival you crack open the special bottle of red wine.

The meal is pleasant, and any other time might have sparked a wonderful friendship, but tonight that is not to be.  Soon he politely mentions that he's not feeling so well.  You offer him a ride home, which he again accepts graciously.  At his house, you walk him up to his bed.  He crawls in and immediately goes limp.  Soon he begins sweating profusely, moaning and crying in pain-filled nightmares as you look on.  His cries weaken, and then stop altogether.  You step forward and place your hand at his throat.  Finding his pulse satisfactorily gone, you head back out to your car, thinking pleasant thoughts of the half-tub of chocolate, nutty bliss that awaits you.

Scatterbrain has been MafiaNKed.

N2 Actions:
Quote from: Vector -> Rube
From your basement fortress monitoring station, you position your satellite above Rube's home, using thermal imaging to confirm that he is, in fact, present.  Then you switch on some classical music, grab a book, and keep on eye on the screen, waiting for the movement that never comes.

Rube
has been roleblocked.

Quote from: Ottofar -> Thendash
The first to leave shibdib's house, you are also the first to arrive at Thendash's.  You pull a soda out of his fridge, sit at his table with your gun in front of you, and you wait.  You hear the sound of his car pulling up in the driveway, the clicks of his door, and as he walks into the kitchen you are ready.  One pull of the trigger and his kneecap shatters.  You slice off a length of the tablecloth and bind his wrists, then go out to your truck cunningly hidden in his garage, dragging him along with you.  You pull out the lynching rope and double the wrist-bindings, then tie the other end to your tow hitch.  Grinning at the fear in his eyes as realization sets in, you get in the car.  He trys to crawl over to the door, begging and pleading for mercy, but to no avail.  You back out to the road, then burn rubber.  He tries to keep up at first, screaming, but soon his screams turn to thuds, and the thuds subside.  Arriving back at the church, you drag the bloody mess that used to be Thendash inside, and string it up in the rafters.  On the way home, you ponder what dinner should be tonight.  Quiche.  A nice quiche.

Thendash has been MafiaKilled.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Toaster on August 17, 2010, 09:41:04 pm
Damn!

Nice game.  At least I was right a couple times, even if I was wrong in the end.  Ottofar, your shorten almost cost you my belief in your claim- I sat staring at the screen several minutes, and wrote it off as newbieness.

LW- Nice flavor on the end, there.  Thanks for hosting.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 17, 2010, 09:52:38 pm
I was pleasantly surprised at how little trouble there was with attendance.  Thank you all for actively participating.  You made my job so much easier.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Vector on August 17, 2010, 09:54:49 pm
Good game, guys, and nice flavor!  Certainly gave me a run for my money a few times, there, especially at the endgame ^_^;;

Special congratulations to shibdib, who seems to have X-ray glasses.  I want to note, by the way, that I didn't deliberately misinterpret anyone at any point in this game (Bandages, I'm looking at you).  I'm sure it was irritating, but I wasn't doing it on purpose.

Erm... and sorry if I offended anyone.  It seems like a lot of you were pretty pissed off, and I'm sorry to hear that.  It's always hard to figure out where the line is.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: shibdib on August 17, 2010, 10:16:14 pm
lol, its comes with the job. Finding scum for a living, you learn a few things :P. Fun game tho.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2010, 12:27:17 am
/me drifts into space, never to be seen again.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Rube on August 18, 2010, 02:37:49 am
Bah, I was so sure Toaster was scum. I didn't suspect Vector by the end of D3 because a Vector-Toaster scum group didn't make sense. Oh well.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Ottofar on August 18, 2010, 06:42:23 am
The shorten was actually my newbishness, as I didn't realize that the text was for mod in the scumchat.

And the cop-claim was my idea, Vector was against it, in a line I missed in the scumchat.

Good game anyways, It was fun to be scum for the first time.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: webadict on August 18, 2010, 08:29:32 am
If you want to know what I was thinking it was this: Vector was obviously scum.

After that, I was gonna fix a list of probabilities USEC posted:
Ottofar truth (50%):
Godfather (50%):
Vector - 33%
Ottofar - 0%
USEC - 67%
Toaster - 67%
Rube - 33%

No Godfather (50%):
Vector - 0%
Ottofar - 0%
USEC - 100%
Toaster - 100%
Rube - 0%

No Cop (50%):
Vector - 25%
Ottofar - 100%
USEC - 25%
Toaster - 25%
Rube - 25%

Total:
Vector - 20.83%
Ottofar - 50%
USEC - 54.17%
Toaster - 54.17%
Rube - 20.83%

Which wouldn't've mattered, because I would've lynched Vector first, confirming a Godfather, and running into a 50% chance for a Cop:
Ottofar either lying or Ottofar telling the truth, since Rube would be killed and either USEC or Toaster scanned.

Hence it leads to this situation:
Ottofar - 50%
One of USEC/Toaster: 50%
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Scatterbrain on August 18, 2010, 08:37:58 am
dammit guys! :(

interesting game that, even if i felt like screaming VECTOR IS SCUM the whole time ;D and reading mafia chat was hilarious, didn't realise we were that bad ._.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Bandages on August 18, 2010, 09:10:30 am
grumblegrumble
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Vector on August 18, 2010, 11:08:55 am
If you want to know what I was thinking it was this: Vector was obviously scum.

That would be why I killed anyone who was in danger of needing replacement.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Diablous on August 18, 2010, 11:11:30 am
If you want to know what I was thinking it was this: Vector was obviously scum.

That would be why I killed anyone who was in danger of needing replacement.

I thought it might have been something like that. Tried to keep a more competent player from taking his place?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Rube on August 18, 2010, 11:27:12 am
The shorten was actually my newbishness, as I didn't realize that the text was for mod in the scumchat.

And the cop-claim was my idea, Vector was against it, in a line I missed in the scumchat.

Good game anyways, It was fun to be scum for the first time.

Looking back at it I think your claiming cop really saved the scum. Vector was probably going to be lynched by USEC and Toaster. Your announcement caused USEC and Toaster to withdraw their votes and me to suspect that they were scumbuddies.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Vector on August 18, 2010, 11:31:26 am
I thought it might have been something like that. Tried to keep a more competent player from taking his place?

No.  I'm specifically terrified of Webadict, and know that he's usually the first person to offer to sub into BMs.  "More competent" in general doesn't scare me, though the heavy fire it brings tends to be rather unpleasant.  Webadict, though... Webadict is scary, especially subbing in >_>


reading mafia chat was hilarious, didn't realise we were that bad ._.

You aren't.  You're actually pretty good for a group of beginners, if a bit... erm... passive.  I'd say that your main problem is that you were so busy being polite/offended that you never really pressed anyone to see what came out.  The other thing is that, for all of the people who apparently "knew I was scum," none of them presented much of a case.  At all.  Bandages got farther then most of you, but when it came to the nitty-gritty of it, he backed off too (fearing a flame war, I guess, or deciding that I was too dumb to deal with).

Meh.  I tried to show off more in this game than I should have, and I had to catch myself being overly honest quite a few times.  I was also pretty passive on the night-kill, and going for broke/holding with my initial plan of skipping a night would have probably helped.


Looking back at it I think your claiming cop really saved the scum. Vector was probably going to be lynched by USEC and Toaster. Your announcement caused USEC and Toaster to withdraw their votes and me to suspect that they were scumbuddies.

I didn't feel very close to being lynched, but... I guess you're saying I was that obvious, huh?  Man, I'm really bad at this ._.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Scatterbrain dead! Oh noes! D2 has begun.
Post by: Toaster on August 18, 2010, 12:00:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Right here is where we should have figured it out.  You call out Otto, his next post ignores your vote- and you never follow up on it.  A slip, but we missed it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: webadict on August 18, 2010, 12:03:11 pm
Actually, you were nowhere near being lynched Vector. You should have been, but you weren't. So, likely scum would've won the next day with Ottofar leading a lynch on USEC even if you were lynched.

Scum won just fine.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Rube on August 18, 2010, 12:19:48 pm
I was talking about here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61612.msg1483982#msg1483982). I don't know if Toaster and USEC were going to keep their votes on you, but I can remember the only reason I didn't vote was because I was afraid I'd look like a bandwagoner with a 3rd vote.

I'm not saying it was because you were a bad player Vector, it was because after Shibdib was revealed to be town it gave his previous accusations some credence (and Bandages before him). I wasn't trying to slight you, I was just trying to give Ottofar some credit.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Vector on August 18, 2010, 12:31:39 pm
I'm not saying it was because you were a bad player Vector, it was because after Shibdib was revealed to be town it gave his previous accusations some credence (and Bandages before him). I wasn't trying to slight you, I was just trying to give Ottofar some credit.

Ahh, okay.  No, Ottofar was good to work with, especially near the end.  It was a risky move, to be sure, but it turned out to be a good one.  Enthusiastic scumbuddies are the best scumbuddies ~


Actually, you were nowhere near being lynched Vector. You should have been, but you weren't. So, likely scum would've won the next day with Ottofar leading a lynch on USEC even if you were lynched.

Scum won just fine.

Thanks, Webby.  Always good to hear from you.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: shibdib on August 18, 2010, 03:38:28 pm
I was more a get vector lynched then see how everyone else reacted when it came to finding her scum buddy... Annoyingly no-one besides me noticed everyone who agreed with me that vector could be scum seemed to die.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Vector on August 18, 2010, 03:53:39 pm
I was more a get vector lynched then see how everyone else reacted when it came to finding her scum buddy... Annoyingly no-one besides me noticed everyone who agreed with me that vector could be scum seemed to die.

On the other hand, everyone in the game had accused me of being scum at that point.  It's not exactly like I was trying to pick off people who thought I was scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: shibdib on August 18, 2010, 04:17:48 pm
I was more a get vector lynched then see how everyone else reacted when it came to finding her scum buddy... Annoyingly no-one besides me noticed everyone who agreed with me that vector could be scum seemed to die.

On the other hand, everyone in the game had accused me of being scum at that point.  It's not exactly like I was trying to pick off people who thought I was scum.

Ya but no1 really pushed the issue cause you were good with deflecting attention elsewhere, which I called you out on a few times but no1 else picked it up and ran with it. I actually just said F it and was waiting for the lynch by that point.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 18, 2010, 05:39:47 pm
Note to self, stop overthinking, my gut feeling was actually quite correct.

Like that's going to happen.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Vector on August 18, 2010, 05:47:55 pm
Note to self, stop overthinking, my gut feeling was actually quite correct.

Like that's going to happen.

Everyone knew, but nobody lynched me... ?  How bizarre.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: webadict on August 18, 2010, 06:32:29 pm
Note to self, stop overthinking, my gut feeling was actually quite correct.

Like that's going to happen.

Everyone knew, but nobody lynched me... ?  How bizarre.
... I would've, if it makes you feel better.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Lonewolf I on August 18, 2010, 06:42:38 pm
I was raging internally at Toaster for not calling Otto a damn fool liar and moving forward with a Vector lynch.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Vector on August 18, 2010, 06:47:50 pm
... I would've, if it makes you feel better.

I know you would've--you're so good at it  ::)

I'm more shocked that my playstyle was apparently exceedingly transparent, and yet... nothing.  Oh, well.  Be more aggressive next time, okay guys?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 13 - Mafia wins!
Post by: Bandages on August 18, 2010, 08:18:45 pm
I got flustered and offended, so I gave up.