Could anyone tell me, if there is another beginners mafia coming up anytime soon?
I'm eager to learn.
However could anyone give me some information on the usage of smack talk here? General rules, what is allowed, what is prohibited, general strategy etc.
Just read some past games... There aren't really any rules for or against smack talk, so long as it's not nasty.
Some of the smack talk seemed quite nasty.
However could anyone give me some information on the usage of smack talk here? General rules, what is allowed, what is prohibited, general strategy etc.
I'd like to join, but be warned I'm gonna suck. :P I have little experience with mafia, and none playing it online.
I'm not an alt at all, where did you even get an idea like that?I'd like to join, but be warned I'm gonna suck. :P I have little experience with mafia, and none playing it online.
Kamina, is it understood that you are an alt account? Because if so, it wouldn't be fair for you to join a game with both accounts. You don't have to say which your other one is, just... uh, don't. to be fair.
I'm not an alt at all, where did you even get an idea like that?
I'm dead serious, where did you get that idea?
That's exactly what I did, so it's kinda obvious to me o_o
That's exactly what I did, so it's kinda obvious to me o_o
What, are you someone's alt?
Kamina, is it understood that you are an alt account?
Never once posted in the DF upper forums, immediately jumped into the popular lower forum threads and commented on other users like you knew them all with an incredibly high post/day ratio.
I mean
That's exactly what I did, so it's kinda obvious to me o_o
Huh? No, where did you get that idea..
vector maybe u r not as smrt as u let on :y
That's exactly what I did, so it's kinda obvious to me o_o
What, are you someone's alt?
vector maybe u r not as smrt as u let on :y
You're right .-. Time to hang myself.
BRB, defacing piano.
Wow. You guys are weird.
No, no. I knew about you being weird. I mean these other folks just jumping in with their parachutes full of weirdness too...
Vector, you're in as Town IC. Aren't you usually the scum IC?
Then... WHICH AM I?!?!?No, no. I knew about you being weird. I mean these other folks just jumping in with their parachutes full of weirdness too...
That is an excellent phrase.
Something about this subforum seems to just attract really ... strange folks. And then normal folks come here, and they act normal briefly, and by the time they leave they're somewhat nuts. It's like a centrifuge that precipitates out weird.
Then... WHICH AM I?!?!?No, no. I knew about you being weird. I mean these other folks just jumping in with their parachutes full of weirdness too...That is an excellent phrase.
Something about this subforum seems to just attract really ... strange folks. And then normal folks come here, and they act normal briefly, and by the time they leave they're somewhat nuts. It's like a centrifuge that precipitates out weird.
vector maybe u r not as smrt as u let on :y
You're right .-. Time to hang myself.
BRB, defacing piano.
<creepy vector picture>
PS. kamina u r totally cool wit me bro I was just giving u a hard time
No, no. I knew about you being weird. I mean these other folks just jumping in with their parachutes full of weirdness too...
That is an excellent phrase.
Something about this subforum seems to just attract really ... strange folks. And then normal folks come here, and they act normal briefly, and by the time they leave they're somewhat nuts. It's like a centrifuge that precipitates out weird.
Then... WHICH AM I?!?!?No, no. I knew about you being weird. I mean these other folks just jumping in with their parachutes full of weirdness too...
That is an excellent phrase.
Something about this subforum seems to just attract really ... strange folks. And then normal folks come here, and they act normal briefly, and by the time they leave they're somewhat nuts. It's like a centrifuge that precipitates out weird.
Zathras your avatar is far too creepy. Please, oh lord, change it.
8-P
I just wanted to change my avatar to reflect my sunny personality.
Haha, looks like you got me Vector. Good one :D
Okay, this is getting pretty stupid. Besides, this is probably scaring off that last newbie who still wants to learn how to play the game!Someone cannot spell.
I'm supposed to vote for someone, eh?
Let it be Spade because there's equal probability of anyone (except myself) turning out to be scum, but his/her name is shorter, and easier for me to type.
So, Spade. What was your opinion on the last Beginner's game, before it was cut short due to lack of activity? Have you learned anything from it? Do you intend to play this game any differently?My opinion is that it could have been either side's win, so I'm sad it got cut short.
ragnarok97071, have you played mafia before, or is this your first game? Do you have any experience with it?No, I've never played it, just trying to get a new game type available to me.
KaminaSquirtle What exactly is it about Elegy that makes him a good mafia player??I don't really know, he just seems like he would be good at being scum. And the question concerned scumbuddies, so yeah.
And Mindmaker do you understand how asking questions can benefit the town?
ahhhh.... could i still join this ? i really need to learn the mafia games.
And Mindmaker do you understand how asking questions can benefit the town?
Well they are supposed to unmask the scum.
However I have not the slightest idea how someone could pull that off.
I guess the first lynchs are always pretty random, based on some vague speculations, derived from something a person said.
Murphy, would you rather be scum or town?
Murphy, which aspect do you appreaciate most in a game of mafia?
Murphy: Why did you join a game which you yourself said that you probably would not like?
Why so interested in the fate of Murphy, Elegy?Never said anything about whether I would care if he lives or dies.
Why cast such a disapproving eye over what is most likely merely a coincidental RVS?Again, where did I say I disapproved?
I'm sure he can take care of himself, when he gets around to answering the questions, and we have plenty of time yet before we settle on a lynch. However, as far as we all know, he could be as much scum as anyone else... unless you know him a lot better than any decent, law-abiding, God-fearing townie should. =/
Notice how I didn't cast a vote, or even a FoS at anyone for that. I was merely commenting on the fact that I was surprised someone already has three votes on themselves, which is still quite a lot for RVS. It is curious how quickly you jumped on me about it, though.
Never said anything about whether I would care if he lives or dies.
Again, where did I say I disapproved?
Cool.
Protip: next time you want to FoS me, have actual reasons, mate.
There's nothing I can even contend, because you're just putting words in my mouth.. So, uhhh. good? Attack?
P.s. Sidestepping is when you avoid an attack, which... I didn't do... So...
The point of questions early on is for someone to slip up and offer a logical fallacy or persform a scummy action. At that point, the whole game shifts into who is acting more scummy and the random questions stop.I guess it is possible. I've just never seen it before, despite having played mafia IRL. We had different playstyle: the game began with a night so the mafia could kill someone, the cop and whoever else could do their actions, and there already was material for discussion by the time dawn had broken.
Murphy, which aspect do you appreaciate most in a game of mafia?Dunno. An intellectual challenge probably.
Murphy: Why did you join a game which you yourself said that you probably would not like?I did not say such thing. I merely said that there's something I do not like about both scum and town, so I have no preference over either one. I never said there wasn't also something I do like about them, and about the game in general.
[/b]KaminaSquirtle What exactly is it about Elegy that makes him a good mafia player??I don't really know, he just seems like he would be good at being scum. And the question concerned scumbuddies, so yeah.
Flintus10, what do you think is the best way to play town?
Murphy: Why did you join a game which you yourself said that you probably would not like?Also @Ragnarok
Elegy which scum role do you have?
Quote from: OttofarElegy which scum role do you have?
none of them..
Are you asking me the same question? I've already answered that:Murphy: Why did you join a game which you yourself said that you probably would not like?
I did not say such thing. I merely said that there's something I do not like about both scum and town, so I have no preference over either one. I never said there wasn't also something I do like about them, and about the game in general.
Murphy, what do you think of having three votes on you this early?It is likely to find at least one scum in a group of three. And I think that two mafia players are likely to vote for the same person. So if one of the three is a scum, there's a good possibility that another one is, too. So there's good possibility that among these three we have both mafia players.
Ah right no sorry that "Also" is a typo I was was just quoting ragnarok for proof that he put the vote on you.Murphy: Why did you join a game which you yourself said that you probably would not like?Also @Ragnarok
probably just a newbie mistake but adding a third vote to someone for absolutely no reason during RVS is reasonably suspicious and looks like a bandwagon vote so slight FOS on you for that scummy action.
Murphy, what do you think of having three votes on you this early?It is likely to find at least one scum in a group of three. And I think that two mafia players are likely to vote for the same person. So if one of the three is a scum, there's a good possibility that another one is, too. So there's good possibility that among these three we have both mafia players.
Of course, if both mafia players are experienced, they would not give away such an obvious sign, but we are playing beginners' mafia, aren't we?
and Ottofar again Your vote is still on Elegy and your question insinuated that your were quite sure he was scum did you have proof or did you just misword it?I find him scum. He appears to be protecting Murphy.
You didn't take bussing (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bussing) into the account?Murphy, what do you think of having three votes on you this early?It is likely to find at least one scum in a group of three. And I think that two mafia players are likely to vote for the same person. So if one of the three is a scum, there's a good possibility that another one is, too. So there's good possibility that among these three we have both mafia players.
Of course, if both mafia players are experienced, they would not give away such an obvious sign, but we are playing beginners' mafia, aren't we?
and Ottofar again Your vote is still on Elegy and your question insinuated that your were quite sure he was scum did you have proof or did you just misword it?I find him scum. He appears to be protecting Murphy.
I did, but isn't is an advanced technique?So now you're protecting Elegy.
And if it is so common, then why are you suspecting Elegy for protecting me? If we two were scum, then, following your logic, he would rather throw me under the bus.
Azure got there before me. I find Elegy scum anyways.and Ottofar again Your vote is still on Elegy and your question insinuated that your were quite sure he was scum did you have proof or did you just misword it?I find him scum. He appears to be protecting Murphy.
Really Ottofar you don't seem to have provided any evidence of this is it possible you are just going on Azure's opinion without formulating one on your own, scum?
That's nowhere near a good enough excuse even reusing his evidence and formulating your own opinion on it would be better than "What he said"I did, but isn't is an advanced technique?So now you're protecting Elegy.
And if it is so common, then why are you suspecting Elegy for protecting me? If we two were scum, then, following your logic, he would rather throw me under the bus.Azure got there before me. I find Elegy scum anyways.and Ottofar again Your vote is still on Elegy and your question insinuated that your were quite sure he was scum did you have proof or did you just misword it?I find him scum. He appears to be protecting Murphy.
Really Ottofar you don't seem to have provided any evidence of this is it possible you are just going on Azure's opinion without formulating one on your own, scum?
Murphy I'll ask again if someone of thre three voting for you is likely to be scum do you have any idea which of them it would be??Murphy, what do you think of having three votes on you this early?It is likely to find at least one scum in a group of three. And I think that two mafia players are likely to vote for the same person. So if one of the three is a scum, there's a good possibility that another one is, too. So there's good possibility that among these three we have both mafia players.
Of course, if both mafia players are experienced, they would not give away such an obvious sign, but we are playing beginners' mafia, aren't we?
If that's your opinion do you have any idea which of the three is most likely to be scum?
If that's your opinion do you have any idea which of the three is most likely to be scum?Let's see, Ottofar voted first, then it was Mindmaker, and then, shortly after that, Ragnarok.
So now you're protecting Elegy.Mainly I'm pointing at the flaws in your logic. But whatever. I'm protecting him no more than Flintus does.
Mainly I'm pointing at the flaws in your logic. But whatever. I'm protecting him no more than Flintus does.Care to explain this in more detail because the way it looks you are either clearly deflecting suspicion onto me and implying that you are indeed protecting Elegy?
Also Mindmaker because he speaks so little, is he hiding something?
Does a name written in blue color has any more meaning than a bolded one? People seem to be mixing it and it confuses me.
And Elegy, could you possibly stop using abbreviations? A beginner like me has no idea what you are trying to say.
FOS: Finger of Suspicion. Used to indicate that you find someone suspicious but are not going to vote them, for whatever reason (often because you are voting for someone even more suspicious). Cf. HOS, the somewhat more dramatic Hand of Suspicion (very rare). Also FomS, the lesser Finger of minor Suspicion.Here's (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations) a long list of abbreviations.
Quote from: OttofarElegy which scum role do you have?
none of them..
Which one would you like then?
MINDMAKERDoes a name written in blue color has any more meaning than a bolded one? People seem to be mixing it and it confuses me.
And Elegy, could you possibly stop using abbreviations? A beginner like me has no idea what you are trying to say.
Yeah, It's Finger of Suspicion, FoS for short.Quote from: MafiaWikiFOS: Finger of Suspicion. Used to indicate that you find someone suspicious but are not going to vote them, for whatever reason (often because you are voting for someone even more suspicious). Cf. HOS, the somewhat more dramatic Hand of Suspicion (very rare). Also FomS, the lesser Finger of minor Suspicion.Here's (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations) a long list of abbreviations.
MINDMAKERDoes a name written in blue color has any more meaning than a bolded one? People seem to be mixing it and it confuses me.
And Elegy, could you possibly stop using abbreviations? A beginner like me has no idea what you are trying to say.
Yeah, It's Finger of Suspicion, FoS for short.Quote from: MafiaWikiFOS: Finger of Suspicion. Used to indicate that you find someone suspicious but are not going to vote them, for whatever reason (often because you are voting for someone even more suspicious). Cf. HOS, the somewhat more dramatic Hand of Suspicion (very rare). Also FomS, the lesser Finger of minor Suspicion.Here's (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations) a long list of abbreviations.
Yeah, It's Finger of Suspicion, FoS for short.As in, writing a person's name in blue is a FoS directed to them.
Elegy, Two posts in-between. Great job.
scumtellsThat's Plural. What are these tells aside from slight bandwagoning?
Well, he's got a point Elegy, you seem kind of suspicious.I went to sleep, pretty much right after that last post of mine, and then about a page of stuff got posted overnight...
However before I cast a vote I'd like to see a bit more mor kamina squirtle and ragnarok.
They're being very quiet.
So, Ragnarok, what's up with all this lurking?
Unvote.[/b]KaminaSquirtle What exactly is it about Elegy that makes him a good mafia player??I don't really know, he just seems like he would be good at being scum. And the question concerned scumbuddies, so yeah.
Flintus10, what do you think is the best way to play town?
Straight back at me eh?
Your answer is good enough though you could elaborate a bit more on exactly what makes a good scum player and why you believe Elegy fits that. (Though if you don't know you don't know that's cool)
And I'd say good town play involves being active and observant in scum hunting and making sure to use your vote wisely. Of course every player is different and has different guidlines.
I went to sleep, pretty much right after that last post of mine, and then about a page of stuff got posted overnight...
And here's the OMGUS, yeah, Elegy. You're scum.
Well, he's got a point Elegy, you seem kind of suspicious.You're saying you really like Ottofar's reason, and you might vote Elegy without a reason of your own?
However before I cast a vote I'd like to see a bit more mor kamina squirtle and ragnarok.
They're being very quiet.
So, Ragnarok, what's up with all this lurking?
Damn I'm not good at topic-surfing. I overlooked Flintus' unvote.It helps if you open different tabs for posting and browsing.
You're saying you really like Ottofar's reason, and you might vote Elegy without a reason of your own?
The others have 0.
Is there a rule that says, that you must have a vote on someone on any given time?No
You're saying you really like Ottofar's reason, and you might vote Elegy without a reason of your own?
I don't "like" his reason, however I came to a similar conclusion.
It's not enough to call someone scum though.
Not when we have two people arguing that is.
You're saying you really like Ottofar's reason, and you might vote Elegy without a reason of your own?
I don't "like" his reason, however I came to a similar conclusion.
It's not enough to call someone scum though.
Not when we have two people arguing that is.
Push. Always push.
Yup.At least until you're sure the player isn't scum, and then some.
Elegy, why so desperate to point fingers at everyone else? Calling them scum so quickly seems highly suspect. I see little scumhunting from you at this point. Just pointing fingers at everyone else, without any real reason.
Eager to jump on me when there was no evidence or any scumtells (As Azure himself even pointed out)scumtellsThat's Plural. What are these tells aside from slight bandwagoning?
You're not hunting. Just pointing out tells. There's a difference.
So, figuring out Ottofar is scum through his scumtells doesn't count as scumhunting?
I'll let you go for now, Ottofar looks way more scummy to me than you right now. Would you care to defend yourself against Azure Sepulchre, Otto? I find your glossing over the strongest argument against you suspicious.Elegy, why so desperate to point fingers at everyone else? Calling them scum so quickly seems highly suspect. I see little scumhunting from you at this point. Just pointing fingers at everyone else, without any real reason.So, figuring out Ottofar is scum through his scumtells doesn't count as scumhunting?
P.S. "pointing fingers" is a pretty fucking weak attack in this game, when all you do is point fingers.
And here's the OMGUS, yeah, Elegy. You're scum.
Fuck, yeah! I got a bite!
Unvote. 1: I had nothing on Elegy, but I figured scum would try to start an early bandwagon on a lynch if I was forceful enough, and then - lo and behold - 2: you tried to use my own worthless agrument in order to have Elegy lynched. Coupled with how curt your answers have been to past questions,3: Ottofar - almost as if you've been advised to say little to avoid dropping scumtells and took it too literally - 4:and you've been bouncing between players too freely, asking questions that won't give you much in terms of information. 5:Acting like scum, basically.
I went to sleep, pretty much right after that last post of mine, and then about a page of stuff got posted overnight...And yet you still have contributed little. Why not ask a few questions, ragnarok?
I always call people names, asshat. I don't need to be "panicking" (nice evidence on that, by the way) to be a jerk.The feel in the posts is different.
That may have been from the fact I was shitface drunk last night when I was posting.Yeah. Right. You're still scum.
You're still scum.
Also, next fucker who calls me scummy with no evidence gets ignore listed. You have to SUPPORT CLAIMS or else you might as well not post at all.
You mean I should be more agressive and accuse people over their slightest mistake?
Azure, who do you think is telling me what to do?
Push. Always push.
At least until you're sure the player isn't scum, and then some.
Personally, I think defending is a waste of time, but if you so wish.
1: Hell no. I'm not stupid. [undefendable without WIFOM]
2: To push, to get a reaction, which I then found scummy. He panicked, look at my previous post.
3: Who is giving advice, and why would I be posting this much, when I could be lurking. [WIFOM again]
4:I see no need to tunnel, and usefulness is relative.
5: And here would belong the meta argument.
Well I was incorrect, there is still Azure.
Still me what? What'chu talkin' 'bout?Only you and Flintus still supporting Elegy in his vote against Ottofar.
KS, why so interested in making it look like I'm leading a bandwagon?
Ahh, right. You're wrong, though; I'm not supporting anyone in this lynch. I'm voting for Otto for my own reasons, not for Elegy's. Can't answer for Flintus, though. I wasn't even aware he was voting for Otto. >.>Just saying what he said. It doesn't reflect my views. He's the one who used the word 'support'.
Flintus, now that Kaminasquirtle has unvoted, you're the only one supporting elegy in his vote.
So what new evidence have you gathered, since you last posted, that would support your accusation?
Azure, point me to a game, where I have answered more thoroughly
Azure, point me to a game, where I have answered more thoroughly
Fair point, then; so you're okay with making a habit of using a playing style that's detrimental to the town. Sure thing, bro.
You still haven't adequately explained why you tried to initially lynch Elegy (beyond using my own fabricated reasons), nor have you explained why you play in a completely different way from the method you recommended to Mindmaker. Nor why you still insist on lynching Elegy despite having nothing to go on. The fact that you actually tried to get him lynched on nothing more than a 'gut feeling' is just plain laughable. Try harder, scum.
Yeah. I'm gonna hang today, concencrate on someone else. By lynching me, you'll be one step closer to LyLo.
1, you're not defending him, are you?
The situation is going out of hand.
I really don't like the constellation around Elegy, however there isn't much I can do about it.
And so does Elegy.
Murphy, Kamina - time to get off the bench and press a little harder, guys. What's your opinion on the Ottofar/Elegy situation? Have you got any leads of your own, any scumtell's you've noticed? Or do both plan to stay on the sidelines? Pretty suspicious behaviour, that.You claim me to be on the bench and not ragnarok? He's contibuted nothing to the town over the entire game, and has refused to respond to people calling this out. Seems pretty scummy to me.
Ragnarok/Kamina/Spade/Murphy what do you think of the situation?Azure has a good argument against Ottofar going.
Are the accusations against Ottofar justified? Or did the mafia just found a good opportunity to lynch a townie?
You claim me to be on the bench and not ragnarok? He's contibuted nothing to the town over the entire game, and has refused to respond to people calling this out. Seems pretty scummy to me.
Azure has a good argument against Ottofar going.
But Azure, while pushing so hard against Ottofar, has completely ignored ragnarok's silence. They may be the scum. Why are you ignoring ragnarok's lack of contribution to the town, Azure?
In my opinion, they make a lot of sense. not quite enough to add my vote to his massive pile of votes, but they do make sense.
Flinutus just seems to have been drawn into the bandwagon, however Azure seems to know exactly what he is doing.
And so does Elegy.
Flinutus just seems to have been drawn into the bandwagon1. That would be a reason to find me suspicious yet you decided to FOS two other people
In my opinion, they make a lot of sense. not quite enough to add my vote to his massive pile of votes, but they do make sense.
Ragnarok/Kamina/Spade/Murphy what do you think of the situation?I'm unsure. Of course it's possible none of the people voting for them is maf, but that's three people on one person.
Are the accusations against Ottofar justified? Or did the mafia just found a good opportunity to lynch a townie?
I apologise for not posting much, got a lot of things going on right now, and in any case, I try not to put something up unless It is important. not a very good strategy for Mafia, I guess. anyway, I think that a vote at this point in the game would be founded more on random suspicion than any reasoned deduction of who is actually on the scumteam. Really, I think we'd be better off waiting untill we have some evidence to lynch anyone. right now, we have random guesswork, decently laid traps, and mob mentality to discern the scum. from this turns effects, we may be able to deduce, from who is killed, and what their suspicions were, who is likely to need lynching. on that note, I guess...
unvote
If he were scum, why would he lead such a hard push against you? If you turn out to be town, then he would make himself highly suspect. The only way I could see him being scum is if you were both scum, in which case lynching you would still be a good idea.Azure, point me to a game, where I have answered more thoroughly
Fair point, then; so you're okay with making a habit of using a playing style that's detrimental to the town. Sure thing, bro.
You still haven't adequately explained why you tried to initially lynch Elegy (beyond using my own fabricated reasons), nor have you explained why you play in a completely different way from the method you recommended to Mindmaker. Nor why you still insist on lynching Elegy despite having nothing to go on. The fact that you actually tried to get him lynched on nothing more than a 'gut feeling' is just plain laughable. Try harder, scum.
Yeah. I'm gonna hang today, concencrate on someone else. By lynching me, you'll be one step closer to LyLo.
I at first pushed him, with your argument. He reacted, and the reaction occurred for me as uncomfortable, and for you as annoyed1. I then proceeded to push, and you revealed your gambit. This is where I find Elegy's posts gain more confidence, as he doesn't seem to get lynched today, and less people suspect him.
1, you're not defending him, are you?
If we just go no-lynch today, what do we get? Well, for one, we don't get to see if Ottofar truly is scum or not (assuming he is lynched), and a random townie dies during the night. Had the situation been different, say if no one had made any scummy moves so far, I might agree with you, but that is not the case, and that's why I continue to vote for the person who I think is scum.Exactly, the information gained from Ottofar's death will be invaluable.
If you read back you will realise I was the first person to vote for Ottofar and provide an actual case against him, explain to me how that is bandwagoning?
Ragnarok/Kamina/Spade/Murphy what do you think of the situation?Justified, I think. I'm only reluctant to vote because it is always better to find my own reason than blindly follow someone else. In other words, I'm keeping an eye on him and waiting for more scumtells which I could spot myself and not just be told of them by others.
Are the accusations against Ottofar justified? Or did the mafia just found a good opportunity to lynch a townie?
Murphy If Ottofar does somehow flip town what do you think will happen next?I'm almost sure Azure will then survive the night, because he would either be mafia himself or a good daytime target for them to blame.
My guess would be that one of them is a maf trying to lynch a townie or their scumbuddy.Well do you any guess as to which of the four it is?
Ottofar, you seem to think that finding someone who's being voted for, then pressing on him until he panics and breaks is likely to yield scumtells. Did this tactic work for you when you were playing town in the past games?Actually, this is my first game I tried to push this hard. But I've seen it work.
I was away for around a day again. (That's an answer to Otto's 'where are you?' post. It's too far back for me to quote.)In my opinion, they make a lot of sense. not quite enough to add my vote to his massive pile of votes, but they do make sense.
You're still not saying not saying anything useful, ragnarok. Do you actually have something good to say or maybe even a question?QuoteRagnarok/Kamina/Spade/Murphy what do you think of the situation?I'm unsure. Of course it's possible none of the people voting for them is maf, but that's three people on one person.
Are the accusations against Ottofar justified? Or did the mafia just found a good opportunity to lynch a townie?
My guess would be that one of them is a maf trying to lynch a townie or their scumbuddy.
Ottofar: Who do you think(if you think), of the people voting you, has the best or worst argument about it?
I don't personally think Azure is scum, but am I the only one to notice, that Elegy lurks, until called out, letting Azure's (unintentional[?]) chainsaw do the defending.Elegy: What is your response to this comment? Is it justified? Why or why not?
Actually, this is my first game I tried to push this hard. But I've seen it work.
I've stated a couple of times now, that I only used Azure's argument to push.
I'm almost sure Azure will then survive the night, because he would either be mafia himself or a good daytime target for them to blame.
Azure You have any reads on who you might think the second scum is?
Flinutus just seems to have been drawn into the bandwagon, however Azure seems to know exactly what he is doing.
And so does Elegy.
Mindmaker - I just can't forget this:Flinutus just seems to have been drawn into the bandwagon, however Azure seems to know exactly what he is doing.
And so does Elegy.
This was such a lazy attempt to turn the town against an Otto lynch that its almost laughable. It just sounds like he's whining that the argument against Otto make's too much sense. For this alone, he's about equal with Kamina on my list of scum-partners.
Kamina - I never trust the fourth/third people on a scum lynch, and since I'm the third and I have an actual agrument, I can only suspect the fourth. In my experience in IRC games, it's more often scum bussig their team mate than anything else. This is highly speculative, of course, and relies on statistical information too heavily to be of much use in an individual game... but I noticed he sat on the fence for quite a while, before he joined the Otto lynch. Almost as if hoping he could pull off a lynch on Elegy instead. He also seemed much more interested in my reasons for lynching Otto than Otto's for lynching Elegy, despite the fact that mine were much clearer.I sat on the fence because there was talk about bandwagoning, and I didn't want to be accused of that. So I tried to look for an original argument against Ottofar I could use, so I wouldn't appear to be looking for an easy lynch, I was hoping Ottofar would post something more I could use against him. But his posts of late have been quite lacking, so I decided what the hell, he's pretty obviously scum. Should I have held my peace indefinitely?
Elegy has been banned and needs a replacement.This should help establish whether Elegy was scum or not, as we will get to see the same role being played by different people.
Ragnarok,I'd probably use it to identify the persons who I see as suspicious and covertly point the angry mob in their direction. It's a useful role, as the player can find out what side the target is on, in a reliable manner.
er... I have no idea what to ask...
Okay, what do you think of the cop role? How would you play it?
Ragnarok, if you have been keeping track, why did you land third vote on Murphy?Because at the time, he looked untrustworthy. I'm not so sure of that anymore, however, and this is partly why I am not voting for Ottofar right now. He's already dead, and I see no reason to compound that without more compelling evidence, as I have said.
Also @RagnarokI'll keep that in mind. As I said, he looked somewhat suspicious at the time. As you said, probably a Newbie mistake.
probably just a newbie mistake but adding a third vote to someone for absolutely no reason during RVS is reasonably suspicious and looks like a bandwagon vote so slight FOS on you for that scummy action.
ragnarok: if my attacks on Otto actually make sense to you, then why aren't you joining in? What else do you have that is worth pursuing? How do you intend to respond to the fairly large amount of pressure mounting against you from questions you've left unanswered and your lapses into silence? If you think I have a case against Otto, then what's your opinion of the case against Elegy?I'm not joining in because at this point, one vote one way or another won't really matter, will it? all it would do is make it look like i'm scum and waste a turn whenever you decide that I need to be lynched. On the case of Elegy, I have very little opinion on him. He looks somewhat suspicious, but as I have said, I have learned not to vote for someone unless I have good reason to see them as scum.
Because at the time, he looked untrustworthy. I'm not so sure of that anymore, however, and this is partly why I am not voting for Ottofar right now. He's already dead, and I see no reason to compound that without more compelling evidence, as I have said.What exactly did you find to look untrustworthy?
I'm not joining in because at this point, one vote one way or another won't really matter, will it? all it would do is make it look like i'm scum and waste a turn whenever you decide that I need to be lynched. On the case of Elegy, I have very little opinion on him. He looks somewhat suspicious, but as I have said, I have learned not to vote for someone unless I have good reason to see them as scum.You don't need to join in with a vote, just help the argument against him. Mind you, there isn't much chance to do that until he posts again. Just try to find something to contribute somewhere. That's how you avoid looking like scum.
Elegy has been banned and needs a replacement.
This was the final part, which was supposed to justify my unvote. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's just great how you just take a part of my post, ignoring the rest and try to picture me as an instigator.
If you would have looked at the upper part of the post, you would have seen that it was an inquiry, about what the others thought about the whole situation.
With all the lurking going on, I thought they too couldn't make heads or tails out of it.
So you think I'm trying to help Ottofar?
You're wrong.
Ever heard of the underdog syndrome?
I would be sceptic, if the situation was the other way round, too.
Click link to see post - deleted content to cut down the size of my post.
So Azure, why did you unvote Elegy, even though his answers were curt, evasive and unfriendly.
After you unvoted him, you suddenly lost all interest in him.
Why is that?
We have scum A(zure) and scum Bee(legy).
Scum B acuses scum A of being scum, which results in scum B acting agressive, tight-lipped and evasive.
Scum A then waits for reactions of the other players.
A townie eagerly points out the flaws in scum Bs answers.
Then a heated argument between scum B and the townie, which makes them both seem suspicious.
This is when scum A enters the scene again and supports scum B in his argument.
Now it's the time for scum B to keep posting to a minimum to escape further suspicion, while scum A takes over his argument.
It's one of many possible scenarios, but it's one we might give a try.
One extension request heard. Will extend 24 hours with two more requests.Request seconded.
SpadeMy guess would be that one of them is a maf trying to lynch a townie or their scumbuddy.Well do you any guess as to which of the four it is?
ExtensionWhat? Spade is voting ragnarok.SpadeMy guess would be that one of them is a maf trying to lynch a townie or their scumbuddy.Well do you any guess as to which of the four it is?
No, they were reminding me of the question.
I currently don't know. It probably depends on whether or not Ottofar is town or mafia.
Jetsquirrel: How do you intend to play differently than Elegy? How well would you say he played, on a scale of 1-10? Why?
No, they were reminding me of the question.
I currently don't know. It probably depends on whether or not Ottofar is town or mafia.
really? because your quote seems to say you think one of those voting for ottofar is mafia regardless of his alignment
And Kamina i really doubt ottofar will post anything of substance as he seems resigned to his lynch like a good scum would beSure looks like it.
That's cool.Jetsquirrel: How do you intend to play differently than Elegy? How well would you say he played, on a scale of 1-10? Why?
Gotta read this whole thing so it's gonna take some time for a oppinion.
No, they were reminding me of the question.
I currently don't know. It probably depends on whether or not Ottofar is town or mafia.
I also mentioned that was a guess. I said it's possible they're all town.
Fair enough you but most of your replies just seem so curt and lacking in much content so I am trying to get your opinion on things.
There is no point in not lynching me, as I would screw the town over at LyLo.Because if you were mafia you'd realise your screwed and just want to end it but if you were a good townie you would know you were innocent and therefor at least try to find the real mafia
Anyways, why would I resign to my lynch if I was scum. No. That'd take out 50% of all the mafia. When you lynch town, you take out 1/7th of the town.
I have. Elesquirrel.There is no point in not lynching me, as I would screw the town over at LyLo.Because if you were mafia you'd realise your screwed and just want to end it but if you were a good townie you would know you were innocent and therefor at least try to find the real mafia
Anyways, why would I resign to my lynch if I was scum. No. That'd take out 50% of all the mafia. When you lynch town, you take out 1/7th of the town.
So you keep saying so how about a reason he is other than "he defended himself and ma gut says that makes him scum."I have. Elesquirrel.There is no point in not lynching me, as I would screw the town over at LyLo.Because if you were mafia you'd realise your screwed and just want to end it but if you were a good townie you would know you were innocent and therefor at least try to find the real mafia
Anyways, why would I resign to my lynch if I was scum. No. That'd take out 50% of all the mafia. When you lynch town, you take out 1/7th of the town.
There is no point in not lynching me, as I would screw the town over at LyLo.What could you do but accept it? I see little way out of a lynch now.
Anyways, why would I resign to my lynch if I was scum. No. That'd take out 50% of all the mafia. When you lynch town, you take out 1/7th of the town.
Yet you have little to no evidence, and won't try to find any other possible scum. There has to be another one in addition to Jetsquirrel.I have. Elesquirrel.There is no point in not lynching me, as I would screw the town over at LyLo.Because if you were mafia you'd realise your screwed and just want to end it but if you were a good townie you would know you were innocent and therefor at least try to find the real mafia
Anyways, why would I resign to my lynch if I was scum. No. That'd take out 50% of all the mafia. When you lynch town, you take out 1/7th of the town.
I... You...Giving up?
*sigh*
I was actually pointing out the fact that you FOS'd me on the basis of apparently having some idea of 'what I was doing'. So because I'd tried out a scum trap, I should be condemned as scummy myself? I don't understand the reasoning behind it. I can at least understand one on Elegy, but it's like you FOS'd me for being town. =/
Rooting for an underdog in Mafia has as good a chance of sparing a Maf lynch as saving a Town. Just be sure you have more than some sense of justice or morality to uphold before you consider siding with another player, or you'll be dragged down with them if they're not as clean as you'd suspected.
I still suspect you more than most others because of your sheer determination to stick by Otto, but not to such a strong degree. A pinky finger at best, Mindmaker. lolucwotididthar
Considering how things have gone, though, you're still my top lynch for tomorrow.
Otto's answers were just as curt - if not moreso - by comparison (which, I might add, was a point I let go of because he's like that in most games), and Elegy comes across as unfriendly in many games regardless of his character template, from what I've seen and heard. As for evasiveness... I don't recall seeing him acting evasive. I saw him getting annoyed, and little else - as I would be, under the circumstances. How can I call him out on something like that if I would act the same way?
Cool.
Protip: next time you want to FoS me, have actual reasons, mate.
lol what
There's nothing I can even contend, because you're just putting words in my mouth.. So, uhhh. good? Attack?
P.s. Sidestepping is when you avoid an attack, which... I didn't do... So...
For your second point: because Otto had captured my interest. Hell, wasn't that obvious? I mean, I've paid about as much attention to Elegy since then as I have to... say, Murphy, this game, but you haven't brought that into question. I had to concentrate on Otto, to make sure he hadn't just stumbled into the elephant trap by accident - I mean, let's face it, that trap on its own wasn't enough to secure a lynch on anyone. I needed to be sure he wasn't town, so I continued to press the advantage the gambit gave me. Personally, I'm as sure right now as I can be that he isn't town.
lol, that's some knack for subtlety you got thar.
But getting back to the point at hand, I'd considered that, too - at least, I'd considered the gambit might appear as such, but figured it would look like that to some people no matter who I used it on. But there isn't such a thing as a fool-proof method of finding scum. It was risky in execution, but so is every move in Mafia. Would you prefer that we ask one another inane questions until the Maf outnumber the Town?
Mindmaker apart from calling him "the underdog" you are still yet to actually give me a proper opinion on Ottofar, do you or do you not think he is scum? Why?
Also in your little scenario who do you think is scum B and who do you think is scum A??? I have replaced the letters with who I think you suspect and have come up with nothing
You seem to be determined to lynch Elegy/Jetsquirrel based only on the fact that they were agressive (a point which is moot now as Jet will play both townie and scum differently.) Are you still willing to suspect him?
Sorry for all the questions but I really do need an answer to them all.
I can trust my gut. And I think you're too defensive. You should use more time to hunt scum, and prove yourself town that way, rather than claiming I have no evidence.
Jetsquirrel: What do you think of the situation? Do you find anyone suspicious?
Jetsquirrel: How do you intend to play differently than Elegy? How well would you say he played, on a scale of 1-10? Why?
Yeah, I'm for extending the day too.
Jetsquirrel, will you maintain the vote Elegy has cast on Ottofar? Feel free to answer after you've taken time to familiarize yourself with the thread.
Also, do you consider your position unstable because of Elegy's actions, or do you think that there weren't any scumtells from him?
The situation seems rather.... normal in begginer mafia games.
But i noticed Flint lurked quite much in the beggining of the game and jumped out when somebody asked him something, After answering he walked off and repeated the thing. The lurking stops i think at page 14 or 13 i think.
Why did you take away your vote if you aren't going to use it anywhere else? Isn't his mindless attack on you good enough evidence to vote him?I can trust my gut. And I think you're too defensive. You should use more time to hunt scum, and prove yourself town that way, rather than claiming I have no evidence.
This, just THIS. Gut feeling arguments ARE the lowest possible argument that can be made in mafia games, this also indicates you want to attack the player without anything at all. But since you all cracked Ottofar, and got 3 votes on him i don't see any reason that my 4rth vote remains on him. Except ofcourse his mindless assault on Elegy ( now me)Unvote Ottofar
7, eh? Sounds like you're trying to stay neutral as possible, as to not reveal anything important. What do you mean he didn't attack anyone?Jetsquirrel: How do you intend to play differently than Elegy? How well would you say he played, on a scale of 1-10? Why?Ehhhh..... dunno? I'd say 7. He seemed to defend himself properly but didn't attack anyone ( i think)
Oops forgt to write some more stuffI don't think azure will get nked to be honest. He seems too likely a target. It would mean that he was on to something more than just Ottofar being scum. I think they'll kill someone whose suspicions are entirely off, as to throw us off the scent.
Edit by PostQuoteThe situation seems rather.... normal in begginer mafia games.
But i noticed Flint lurked quite much in the beggining of the game and jumped out when somebody asked him something, After answering he walked off and repeated the thing. The lurking stops i think at page 14 or 13 i think.
But i can't say much more il jsut wait for day 2 IF i dont get night killed.
Oh, and for the coming night kill i guess that Azure will get Nked, as they may find him a treat to the upcoming days.
This, just THIS. Gut feeling arguments ARE the lowest possible argument that can be made in mafia games, this also indicates you want to attack the player without anything at all. But since you all cracked Ottofar, and got 3 votes on him i don't see any reason that my 4rth vote remains on him. Except ofcourse his mindless assault on Elegy ( now me)Unvote OttofarIf the vote doesn't mean anything, why take it off? Is there a reason for you to take it off? You mention a reason for keeping it on, but you just unvote.
I don't think azure will get nked to be honest. He seems too likely a target. It would mean that he was on to something more than just Ottofar being scum. I think they'll kill someone whose suspicions are entirely off, as to throw us off the scent.I feel like there's some WIFOM coming from that.
Or that could be my inexperience showing.
Edit by PostQuoteThe situation seems rather.... normal in begginer mafia games.
But i noticed Flint lurked quite much in the beggining of the game and jumped out when somebody asked him something, After answering he walked off and repeated the thing. The lurking stops i think at page 14 or 13 i think.
I dunno, these answers seem evasive to me. The combination of yours and Elegy's unhelpful questions and answers looks scummy to me. I could see Otto and Elegy trying to evade suspicion by attacking each other, hoping the survivor is freed from suspicion. And now you see how that may make you look suspicious, and decide to unvote as to alleviate that suspicion.
To me, ragnarok looks like a new townie, who doesn't know what to do. Flintus...I don't know. He did only stop lurking when Ottofar's lynching was pretty much assured. Could be suspicious.Edit by PostQuoteThe situation seems rather.... normal in begginer mafia games.
But i noticed Flint lurked quite much in the beggining of the game and jumped out when somebody asked him something, After answering he walked off and repeated the thing. The lurking stops i think at page 14 or 13 i think.
I noticed the same. And his answers weren't always satisfactory.
Ragnarok has posted even less and not enough to read anything out of it.
However I'm not experience enough, to judge if this is about him being new to the game or maybe something more.
Maybe. I just wanted to point out as many possibilities as possible, the more things we consider, the less chance of overlooking something essential. I may get nked, and don't want to go out not having said something important.I dunno, these answers seem evasive to me. The combination of yours and Elegy's unhelpful questions and answers looks scummy to me. I could see Otto and Elegy trying to evade suspicion by attacking each other, hoping the survivor is freed from suspicion. And now you see how that may make you look suspicious, and decide to unvote as to alleviate that suspicion.
Could be.
Or maybe Elegys all-out, screw-you-guys-playstyle doesn't suit him.
I didn't really intend it, but yeah, now that I look at it, it has layers and LAYERS of WIFOM.QuoteI don't think azure will get nked to be honest. He seems too likely a target. It would mean that he was on to something more than just Ottofar being scum. I think they'll kill someone whose suspicions are entirely off, as to throw us off the scent.I feel like there's some WIFOM coming from that.
Or that could be my inexperience showing.
I only guessed, as azure is a good player and could easly find scum. That's why the scum may want him dead, but like i said its only a GUESSWhy did you take away your vote if you aren't going to use it anywhere else? Isn't his mindless attack on you good enough evidence to vote him?I can trust my gut. And I think you're too defensive. You should use more time to hunt scum, and prove yourself town that way, rather than claiming I have no evidence.
This, just THIS. Gut feeling arguments ARE the lowest possible argument that can be made in mafia games, this also indicates you want to attack the player without anything at all. But since you all cracked Ottofar, and got 3 votes on him i don't see any reason that my 4rth vote remains on him. Except ofcourse his mindless assault on Elegy ( now me)Unvote Ottofar
Trying to fix a bussing attempt?
DO i need to use it? That mindless attack was actually going for Elegy, its evidence that i find.... lacking. I can vote for him but will it matter now atm?7, eh? Sounds like you're trying to stay neutral as possible, as to not reveal anything important. What do you mean he didn't attack anyone?Jetsquirrel: How do you intend to play differently than Elegy? How well would you say he played, on a scale of 1-10? Why?Ehhhh..... dunno? I'd say 7. He seemed to defend himself properly but didn't attack anyone ( i think)
Do you mean he didn't contribute meaningfully? Because he sure lashed out a lot.
I dunno, these answers seem evasive to me. The combination of yours and Elegy's unhelpful questions and answers looks scummy to me. I could see Otto and Elegy trying to evade suspicion by attacking each other, hoping the survivor is freed from suspicion. And now you see how that may make you look suspicious, and decide to unvote as to alleviate that suspicion.
Interesting theory, but alas i dont have enough experience yet to pull of a bussing attempt succefully and Elegy got replaced remember? I may have other plans and Ottofar doesn't seem to be a Real threat expect a broken near-death townie. I can focus my energy to find some real scum.Oops forgt to write some more stuffI don't think azure will get nked to be honest. He seems too likely a target. It would mean that he was on to something more than just Ottofar being scum. I think they'll kill someone whose suspicions are entirely off, as to throw us off the scent.
Edit by PostQuoteThe situation seems rather.... normal in begginer mafia games.
But i noticed Flint lurked quite much in the beggining of the game and jumped out when somebody asked him something, After answering he walked off and repeated the thing. The lurking stops i think at page 14 or 13 i think.
But i can't say much more il jsut wait for day 2 IF i dont get night killed.
Oh, and for the coming night kill i guess that Azure will get Nked, as they may find him a treat to the upcoming days.
Or that could be my inexperience showing.
QuoteThis, just THIS. Gut feeling arguments ARE the lowest possible argument that can be made in mafia games, this also indicates you want to attack the player without anything at all. But since you all cracked Ottofar, and got 3 votes on him i don't see any reason that my 4rth vote remains on him. Except ofcourse his mindless assault on Elegy ( now me)Unvote OttofarIf the vote doesn't mean anything, why take it off? Is there a reason for you to take it off? You mention a reason for keeping it on, but you just unvote.
But would there be any difference if i would keep the vote on him?The answer is no, we cracked him. He ain't got anything more to say and or defend himself properly. Yes i could keep that vote but would it matter?But with 1 vote less he maybe feel less pressurized to actually do something usefull.QuoteI don't think azure will get nked to be honest. He seems too likely a target. It would mean that he was on to something more than just Ottofar being scum. I think they'll kill someone whose suspicions are entirely off, as to throw us off the scent.I feel like there's some WIFOM coming from that.
Or that could be my inexperience showing.
Edit by PostWell I did explicitly state I would be away twice and most of you post while i sleep but w/eQuoteThe situation seems rather.... normal in begginer mafia games.
But i noticed Flint lurked quite much in the beggining of the game and jumped out when somebody asked him something, After answering he walked off and repeated the thing. The lurking stops i think at page 14 or 13 i think.
Edit by PostQuoteThe situation seems rather.... normal in begginer mafia games.
But i noticed Flint lurked quite much in the beggining of the game and jumped out when somebody asked him something, After answering he walked off and repeated the thing. The lurking stops i think at page 14 or 13 i think.
I noticed the same. And his answers weren't always satisfactory.
The situation seems rather.... normal in begginer mafia games.[/quote]
But i noticed Flint lurked quite much in the beggining of the game and jumped out when somebody asked him something, After answering he walked off and repeated the thing. The lurking stops i think at page 14 or 13 i think.
Ottofar/Azure, what do you, as more experienced players, think of them?
And how do you smoke such players out of "hiding"?
If (bolded for emphasis) this was a trap, like I described it in my last post, I would have needed some planning and communication. And only two of the players here would be allowed to do that.
It's like the die has been cast, without considering what most of the other players are thinking.
So it's already cast in stone?
Looks like you take care of people who come in your way fairly quick.
How convenient!
If Ottofar turns out to be town, we might get a good lead to where the mafia is.
However if he turns out to be mafia, there's a good chance I might become the next lynch.
But if I turn out to be innocent, guess who has a good chance of getting lynched himself?
How should I know?
This is my first game of mafia, remember?
Therefore I can't give him the benefit of the doubt.
So these passages, which seem "normal" to you, seem fishy to me.Cool.
Protip: next time you want to FoS me, have actual reasons, mate.lol what
There's nothing I can even contend, because you're just putting words in my mouth.. So, uhhh. good? Attack?
P.s. Sidestepping is when you avoid an attack, which... I didn't do... So...
After that he simply ignored your next post.
However you really can't compare Murphy to Elegy, if you walk into a game unprepossessed.
The answer "He always acts like that" isn't satisfactory, when you you play with a bunch of people, who don't actually know him.
I'm sorry, if I offended you, but as I said we're running out of time.
And as I already mentioned, it's just one of many possibilities.
If I'd be absolutely sure about the accuracy of my theory, I'd have already cast my vote, wouldn't I?
Most of my points, however, might loose any substance they might have, once Jetsquirrel starts posting.
So all that's left is to wait.
About 55 hours back I said I wouldn't vote because there still was time left. There still was opportunity to fish for information; too bad we got next to none, only confusion. However, Ottofar still seems the most likely to turn out to be scum. As KaminaSquirtle has pointed out, a real townie would at least attempt to make his death a credit to the team.
Also, I didn't quite get Jetsquirrel's reasons to call his (well, Elegy's) vote back.
Ottofar/Azure, what do you, as more experienced players, think of them?
And how do you smoke such players out of "hiding"?
Presuming the maf-buddy doesn't revenge-kill me.
Also, if you're gonna try and threaten me away from you, you chose the wrong game to do it.
Anyway, now that Jet has posted, has he influenced your opinion any?
Ehhhh..... dunno? I'd say 7. He seemed to defend himself properly but didn't attack anyone ( i think)
You say so much without giving any reasoning, WHAT questions didn't you like my answers to and WHY didn't you like them.
Really Ottofar you don't seem to have provided any evidence of this is it possible you are just going on Azure's opinion without formulating one on your own, scum?
I see very little real evidence as Ottofar has yet to post too much substance I do know for certain he still has not provided evidence that gives any reason for him to have been initially suspicious of elegy and his only excuse was essentially that he agreed with Azure's points and what do you know it turns out they were not based on anything either so Ottofar has essentially just voted for Elegy because someone else was.
I am almost certain that Ottofar is scum.
Also he is yet to come up with a reasonable defence for his actions[...]
Also you have actually started to post alot more content ever since Ottofar was a certainty to be lynched and I am half suspicious that may be because a scum IC may be feeding you your information.
Very early in the game, when there was a lot of random voting going on, you were the first one to call someone scum (while Ottofar only said he "found" him scum).
Panicked, because your scumbuddy was in distress?
Can't tell, however it doesn't seem like a normal reaction to me.
So after he started to asking random question and making random votes, suddenly you jump on him as he votes for Elegy.Jeez man did you not see this
Just coincidence?
It looked like he did let go of a person, as soon as they provided him with an a satisfactory answer.
However Elegy didn't do that, instead he became agressive and even resorted to namecalling.
That alone should have been enough for him to see, that he obviously had hit a nerve.
In the meantime, you lurked until Ottofar had another vote on him (3 in total) and several people had announced, that they were watching him closely, until you resumed posting, as it seemed innocent enough by then.
Fair enoughI said I would be gone for 24 hours and that is basically how long it took for me to post again. You can’t say that is lurking. I WAS NEVER ONLINE (sorry but you’re the second person to point to this so I’d like to make it clear)
Anyways just a heads up that I will be gone for about a day so any questions will take awhile to recieve an answer.
What information is my IC supposed to be feeding me, in your opinion, Flintus?
Also Spade, Kamina,Murphy, Ragnarok Look at all this lovely text for you to analyse lets see some action lads!Yeah, no kidding!
I agree 100% with first paragraph, nothing to add to this.Ottofar/Azure, what do you, as more experienced players, think of them?
And how do you smoke such players out of "hiding"?
I'm not all that experienced at forum Mafia, (hence the reason I'm in this game) but - as far as wanton lurkers are concerned - I'd imagine the best way to lure them out of the woodwork is with the very real threat of a lynch. If even that doesn't work, then they're either so determinedly trying to injure the town with their inactivity that they'd be worth killing even if they're not scum or they're simply not playing.
To put it concisely? Give him no option but to go on the complete defensive if he wants to stay in the game. And as for how I feel about them... they're useful as scum, and a waste of space for town. If I hadn't hooked onto Otto so early into the game and started all this, I would've gone for ragnarok by now. Hell, he's replaced you at the top of the list for now, Mind. This amount of silence from one person simply isn't right - particularly when he's been cast under such an intense spotlight for most of the game.
So why remove it? What would that gain you?About 55 hours back I said I wouldn't vote because there still was time left. There still was opportunity to fish for information; too bad we got next to none, only confusion. However, Ottofar still seems the most likely to turn out to be scum. As KaminaSquirtle has pointed out, a real townie would at least attempt to make his death a credit to the team.
Also, I didn't quite get Jetsquirrel's reasons to call his (well, Elegy's) vote back.
the reason is that Ottofar is broken and condemned to death my 4rth vote would not make much difference at that point
For once I agree, in general that is. In this case...Ottofar/Azure, what do you, as more experienced players, think of them?
And how do you smoke such players out of "hiding"?
Lynch all Lurkers. In a BM, it's quite hard, without quite rough attacking.
How exactly is it bad? It should benefit the town, as they know they have the same role, but they may have different approaches to it. So we get to see two different performances of the same role, and therefore get more data to analyze.Anyway, now that Jet has posted, has he influenced your opinion any?All I can say, that replacing a player in a game of mafia, is the single worst thing you can do.
It just seems unfair, to pin everything Elegy said and did on Jetsquirrel.
However it also opens up some new possibilities and new questions I could ask.
Hmmm, many good points made here. I agree. This is suspicious, though there is definitely the possibility of Mindmaker just being a noob at the beginning. I think he's at the top of my list of Otto's scumbuddies (assuming Otto's scum, everything changes if he's not), along with ragnarok. The only reason I suspect him more is Otto's lynch all lurkers comment.What information is my IC supposed to be feeding me, in your opinion, Flintus?
Well naturally I would not know for certain but posts to look at, tells other players have made ways to counter arguments ect ect. I mean at the start you literally seemed that you had no idea what was going on your posts were weak you even when you finally realised what use questions were you didn't use them effectively but know your posting these walls of text and working well. Which makes me wonder though it's not impossible for you to have gotten better I find it a little suspicious.
If Ottofar flips mafia then I will be quite suspect of you being his scum-buddy as he stopped posting around when you started getting better and you both seem to have the exact same opinions of me. Though if you were scumbuddy's I don't understand why you are defending his actions (see your second quote)
You are Jack Wilson, a Townsperson.
You’ve worked as a auto mechanic in Tewby Vale for several long years. After your wife left you for one of your coworkers, you began a deep, bitter slide into depression and drinking. Your erratic behavior is likely what earned you the suspicion of the police force. Bitter as you are, you don’t intend to go down without a fight- these mafia scumbags are the perfect targets to vent your aggression.
You are Wilt Hankin, a Townsperson.
Red- the color of blood. Much red has run through these streets lately, and your paintings have taken a darker mood as the town grows increasingly hostile and less trusting. You try to catch the world in your art, and all you can capture is misery. Your brother seemed to be oblivious to the misery- he was out enjoying himself every day... until he was one of those killed as a Mafioso. You’re sure that’s why you’re here under suspicion, but there’s no connection- you had no idea he was up to no good. Now you must prove to all that you had nothing to do with this atrocity, and help wash the stain from your family name.
Hmmm who did kaminasquirtle investigate or was clinging on to?I think Kamina got NKd not because of what threat he was, but just because he was mostly out of suspicion. The mafia are likely to leave suspicious people alive, because these can serve as daytime scapegoats, allowing the real scum to hide. Remember when I said that if Ottofar actually flips town, then Azure will likely survive the night, because he's either a mafia himself, or a good daytime target for them to blame?
I musta missed something big if the maf don't even feel threatened by me.What if you are a mafia yourself?
Combined with the fact that I'm mostly out of suspicion right now (like Kamina was), this would make me an ideal NK target.Saying you're not suspicious makes you suspicious.
and who seemed the most suspicious in the ottofar votes? Since Ottofar himself presented himself as a easy lynch for scum due to his ehm... accusions on me (Elegy), while i clearly somewhere said that he was a BROKEN TOWNIE
Saying you're not suspicious makes you suspicious.Why?
Murphy, what did you think about Ottofar's town flip?I'm trying to figure out at what point we screwed it up.
I understand, but you shouldn't say you're not suspicious, since it makes it sound like you're saying that there's no way you're maf, which isn't true. I know that's not what you meant to say, but it's what it sounds like to me.Saying you're not suspicious makes you suspicious.Why?
I'm just trying to look through the eyes of a mafia. Whom would they consider unsuspicious and thus good target? Surely one of those who had drawn few to none FoS during day one, which couldn't be said about Ragnarok, Jetsquirrel, Flintus and probably Mindmaker as well.
I think the situation is pretty bad. We have seven people, none of which are non-suspicious. If I had to guess, I'd still say one of the people who voted for Ottofar were mafia. I want to see what everyone else has to say first before accusing anyone though.Murphy, what did you think about Ottofar's town flip?I'm trying to figure out at what point we screwed it up.
A plausible scenario is that Azure's gambit wasn't a gambit initially, but a genuine attack, which he later dropped and then claimed it to be a trap in which Ottofar has fallen. But I want to hear other theories and see if I like them better.
Another possibility is that Elegy/Jetsquirrel (who had that strife with Ottofar) is a mafia, but I don't think so. There was arguing, and some of it was quite ugly, but no scumtells, as far as I noticed. It may also be a whole town-on-town aggression, while the real mafia lurks in a corner and chuckles evilly. Maybe.
So what do you think of our situation, Spade?
P.S. On a side note, my first thought was "WTF? There weren't 5 votes, how come he is lynched?".
Quotethe reason is that Ottofar is broken and condemned to death my 4rth vote would not make much difference at that pointSo why remove it? What would that gain you?
About 55 hours back I said I wouldn't vote because there still was time left. There still was opportunity to fish for information; too bad we got next to none, only confusion. However, Ottofar still seems the most likely to turn out to be scum. As KaminaSquirtle has pointed out, a real townie would at least attempt to make his death a credit to the team.
Jetsquirrel, KaminaSquirtle had asked you an interesting question, right before he died, which you unfortunately couldn't answer.
Because i knew he was a townie, he acted like me when he broke. He got pinned down by both scum and town, and struggling would seem even more scummy. see first post of this thing
Ehhhh..... dunno? I'd say 7. He seemed to defend himself properly but didn't attack anyone ( i think)
Let me rephrase that question:
On a scale from 1-10 how well did Elegy play as a
a.) townie?
b.) a member of the mafia?
Ehhhh..... dunno? I'd say 7. He seemed to defend himself properly but didn't attack anyone ( i think)
Let me rephrase that question:
On a scale from 1-10 how well did Elegy play as a
a.) townie?
b.) a member of the mafia?
I'm just going to post this now:No shit, Sherlock?
Town is going to lose hardcore in this game.
Dude, don't be a moron. I'm trying to help you. You have all the means to finding scum already. In fact, with no more words, the scum could be found right now.I'm just going to post this now:No shit, Sherlock?
Town is going to lose hardcore in this game.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
We are already 2 townies short and have next to no insight.
If someone besides me had bothered to question the Ottofar lynch, the mafia maybe would have made a stupid move and this tragedy wouldn't have happened.
So yes, we're screwed.
Dude, don't be a moron. I'm trying to help you. You have all the means to finding scum already. In fact, with no more words, the scum could be found right now.
Tell me what you think you're looking for. Or is "stupid mistakes" your answer?
Also, NO EDITING IN MAFIA. You can get modkilled for that.
May I first point out, Webadict, that negativity kills town faster than anything? Be confident, be passive, be witty or be blunt, look for the right thing or the wrong thing - it all makes less difference then enthusiasm.I am helping them. It was a warning. All they need to do to help themselves is to answer that question. And possibly continue playing as well.
Well, kinda sorta. Once you have enthusiasm, then the rest becomes important. But seriously, Webadict, don't jump into a Beginner's game and tell them they all suck so bad and they're never gonna win! Don't tell them to figure it out, they're beginners. Be useful, don't be negative. The game's not over. Help 'em.
Wel, well, that's been an interesting turn of events.
Flintus/Azure:
What do you think about Ottofar turning out to be town?
What will you do now? Any new "targets" (Oh how ambiguous!)?
And how do you see my role in all of this? I was supposed to be the scumbuddy, isn't that right?
And Flintus lurked in the start of the game quite much and activly attacked ottofar because it could be a easy lynch for you.
so Flintus what do you have to say about this blob of text?
Town is going to lose hardcore in this game.
And Flintus lurked in the start of the game quite much and activly attacked ottofar because it could be a easy lynch for you.
so Flintus what do you have to say about this blob of text?
I have explained about three times now but it seems I must one more time. It is not lurking if I am physically unable to use a computer. Hell I even gave prior warning to the two RL days I missed during day one
And what do you mean I actively attacked Ottofar because it would be an easy lynch. I was the first to vote for him and only continued attacking him because he would not defend himself, his reason for trying to lynch you or even contribute in any meaningful way.
People who don't try to defend themselves from an attack and simply OMGUS them out of spite
Ending the day without a final vote on anyone despite plenty of FOS's and chatting is scummy (yeah, you guys know who I'm talking about. =/).
In this case, I don't see how you simply seemed to have "forgotten" about Elegy.
Well we've seen where the last FOS has led us, didn't we?
And what's the point on being the only person with a vote on someone?
As long as you can't convince anyone to vote for the same person, it's wrothless.
I doubt anyone of the mafia would care, if I placed a single vote on him.
Flintus/Azure:
What do you think about Ottofar turning out to be town?
What will you do now? Any new "targets" (Oh how ambiguous!)?
And how do you see my role in all of this? I was supposed to be the scumbuddy, isn't that right?
I also thought about azure being scum, his attack and defense seems to be just too good.....
My 'attack' killed a freakin' townie, and all I've had to really 'defend' against is Mindmaker's incessant crying about the Ottofar lynch. I'm not exactly a mafia genius, dude. Or perhaps you think Otto's death is a good thing? I'd really like to hear why, personally.
Like someone is actually giving him stuff to argument about, which he himself could not think off. But i have never ( i think) seen or red a game where azure has played.
God dammit, stop being a tard. I got you lynched in the last Beginner's Mafia game after you kept editing your posts and refusing to answer a single one of my - or anyone elses - questions (instead responding with the most asinine one-liners you could think of). Even Bayer commented that he didn't think I was scum, and you think I can't argue for myself? Get the hell up outta my face, son; you got nuthin'.
I find this vote also suspicous, there is no evidence backing that ottofar was SCUM at all. Because at some point there were 3 options for him,
1. He could defend himself makin him look even scummier If he'd defended himself, he'd have looked less scummy.
If he had answers to our arguments that went beyond 'whatever', he'd still be alive. Also, not once in day one did you deign to mention this; all you said was 'there's too many lynches on Otto that aren't needed, so I'm gonna sit this one out', which roughly translates - to me, at least - into 'I don't want it to look like I lynched a townie so I'm gonna go sit on the fence and pretend I knew Otto was town all along in day 2, despite the fact that - if I had wanted to save him - I could have put my vote on soneone else along with Mindmaker and done exactly that'. I can smell the bullshit from here, and I'm in Dundee. =/
2. He could blame someone else, which would lead to a discussion about diverting attention to a other player to make himself look less scummy
No, it wouldn't. If he had legit reasons for pointing at someone else, they would have been taken into due consideration. Don't you dare think to presume how I or anyone else will react to anything and try to use it as evidence. It means nothing.
3. He could do nothing,
Which is what he did, and it got him lynched; who'd have thunk it? Whereas, if he'd have fought against it instead of ignoring everyone, he may have persuaded someone. It did not make him look like town. At all.
<I don't care about the Flintus bit; it doesn't pertain to Jet's bullshit claim that he knew Otto was town>
Because i knew he was a townie, he acted like me when he broke. Town does not sit on its ass and allow itself to be attacked! God dammit, why would town allow everyone else to waste a valuable lynch on them? Why wouldn't they struggle against it? Why wouldn't they fight to make sure the scum got lynched and not them, like they're supposed to? What kind of townie are you, to even suggest thatwe should all sit here and twidle our thumbs the moment someone puts a vote on us? >.> He got pinned down by both scum and town, and struggling would seem even more scummy. No. It. Wouldn't! see first post of this thing
But to elaborate a bit more if you are not town then I think it will be either Azure/Lurker or Jet/lurker but I have nothing on azure except that his initial attack on elegy/Jet did not look too much like a bluff to me.
Jetsquirrel, your turn. Why didn't you try to save Ottofar the first night either?He did remove his vote though. I only managed to get a very vague answer on what was the reason of that, something about Ottofar being broken.
i knew he was a townie, he acted like me when he broke.Well, Jetsquirrel, you've seen Otto act like you did sometime ago and, based on that, concluded that he's a townie.
Why didn't you try to save Ottofar the first night, if you were so damn sure he wasn't scum?
Why do you think votes are useless in scumhunting?
Also: What kind of town are you, to clean ignore a question simply because the guy who asked it hasn't answered yours? I mean seriously, you're trying to use playground logic in this game? 'He didn't answer my question, so I'm not answering his, nyeh nyeh nyeh'? Jesus, you even commented that you don't much care if this makes you look scummy! Why not? Do you think yourself that much above suspicion?
Also also: Why do you keep acting like you were the only person that gave Otto a chance? The only person to question his scumminess? If you really do think you were the only one who thought he might not be scum, then why the hell did you think I kept asking him questions, even after be effectively told me to stop doing so and just lynch him?
If I was so certain he was scum, wouldn't I have just put my vote on him and ignored him? Stop trying to pretend you were the only person who so much as suspected he was town. I gave him every chance to change my mind.
Mindmaker Do you have any justified reason to think Otto was at least a likely town player?
And if you are indeed town then who are your prime suspects?
Then Jetsquirrel. Altough I think that Elegy was just being childish at the beginning, I don't see why Jetsquirrel is defending him (even after I questioned his answer regarding the appraisal of the way Elegy played).
Fuck elegy man, IM NOT HIM.
See this is the minus of getting replaced because your precessor may have fucked up everything.
Are you kidding me?
What the hell was I trying to do all day long?
I ceartainly did deliver a lot of theories, asked a lot of questions and gave reasons, why the whole thing with Ottofar being scum was rubbish.
You really can't blame me, that the only people responding to this posts were the ones, which I directly adressed.
How am I supposed to save someone, who has 3+ votes on him, alone?
All I can do is trying to see the situation from another angle, from my angle, to be exact.
If nobody does express interest to the walls of text I wrote, how should I know they're not sharing you beliefs?
If you vote, without providing a good reason, its useless. People will not care, and even find you suspicious.
If you vote, provide a good reason, but other peple simply ignore you, it's still useless.
A townie is not a one-man-army, you know?
Your pitiful attempt to ridicule me is noted, but ignored.
Don't ask questions, where you already know the answer.
I doubt you haven't looked at it from a scum point of view.
If you have two people, voting on someone, who in the end turns out to be town, then those two players will most likely become the new prime suspects.
However if you manage to convince other players, to follow you example, the blame is shared and you've made yourself more that enough room to argue, who the "real" scum is.
So yes, this is another possible use of further questioning.
It's actually quite simple.
Why would a member of the mafia act so dumb, to get himself lynched on day one.
You can answer me this, Azure.
What tactic did he employ?
How was it supposed to gain him anything?
And I never was sure he was, in fact, a townie. I gave that possibility about 70%. So yeah, it was a gamble.
The way you both behaved, only reinforced me in my beliefs.
Well for once you and Azure, for reasons already posted and now seeing you working together against me. Why is no one else bothered by me if I'm so obviously scum?
Fuck elegy man, IM NOT HIM. I'm a other being i got a different brain a other way of thinking. See this is the minus of getting replaced because your precessor may have fucked up everything.
Mindmaker Do you have any justified reason to think Otto was at least a likely town player?It's actually quite simple.
Why would a member of the mafia act so dumb, to get himself lynched on day one.
You can answer me this, Azure.
However I have to admit, that the answers are there, even if they are all extremly narrow minded.God just before giving me a bunch of extremely narrow minded answers you state this, and you also just had a crack at Azure for his “Pitiful attempt to ridicule you”.
Sorry about that, Flintus.
And I never was sure he was, in fact, a townie. I gave that possibility about 70%. So yeah, it was a gamble.Based on your answer I find it absolutely ridiculous that you could possibly find Ottofar 70% likely to be town for the simple reason that he played so badly.
The way you both behaved, only reinforced me in my beliefs.
And if you are indeed town then who are your prime suspects?
Well for once you and Azure, for reasons already posted and now seeing you working together against me. Why is no one else bothered by me if I'm so obviously scum?Well we have two lurkers who do not want to post anything. Jet-squirrel who you yourself have said can’t seem to decide anything and Murphy just seems to be passively aggressively prodding everyone and we have to assume that if you are scum then at least one of the others players is mafia right?
Hmmm, many good points made here. I agree. This is suspicious, though there is definitely the possibility of Mindmaker just being a noob at the beginning. I think he's at the top of my list of Otto's scumbuddies (assuming Otto's scum, everything changes if he's not), along with ragnarok. The only reason I suspect him more is Otto's lynch all lurkers comments realised what use questions were you didn't use them effectively but know your posting these walls of text and working well. Which makes me wonder though it's not impossible forOtto did not flip scum but that still does not change the fact that Kamina was both suspicious of you and a confirmed townie and he died during the night...coincidence eh? Or did you decide to kill the quietest of those who you thought were on to you so as to avoid suspicion?
It's actually quite simple.As Flintus already said, why would a townie act so dumb, to get himself lynched on day one, huh?
Why would a member of the mafia act so dumb, to get himself lynched on day one.
So, please, while you're playing, just list out what it is you think you're looking for, and I'll help point you guys in the right direction. This will also help scum by identifying some startling easy catches on your part.You're asking what we're looking for?
Fuck elegy man, IM NOT HIM. I'm a other being i got a different brain a other way of thinking.so you barely had a real reason to be sure about Otto's identity.
So now he "fucked up"?
Didin't you rate him somewhere between "average" and "quite good"?
Please elaborate, why you change your mind every couple of posts.
2) If you were so sure he was a townie, why didn't you share your thoughts before Day 1 had ended? Especially suspicious is that you did so after he was lynched.
I can trust my gut. And I think you're too defensive. You should use more time to hunt scum, and prove yourself town that way, rather than claiming I have no evidence.
This, just THIS. Gut feeling arguments ARE the lowest possible argument that can be made in mafia games, this also indicates you want to attack the player without anything at all. But since you all cracked Ottofar, and got 3 votes on him i don't see any reason that my 4rth vote remains on him. Except ofcourse his mindless assault on Elegy ( now me)Unvote OttofarJetsquirrel: What do you think of the situation? Do you find anyone suspicious?
So about here Jet did you think Ottofar was town when you made this quote?
And why do you think he was town, a reason other than "He played like me when I was town once" Because it is fairly certain that Ottofar played town terribly.
Er, I wasn't asking why didn't you save him. I was asking why didn't you elaborate on your thoughts. You only made a short remark on how he is broken anyway. During day 2 you did reveal a bit more, you now said:Quote2) If you were so sure he was a townie, why didn't you share your thoughts before Day 1 had ended? Especially suspicious is that you did so after he was lynched.
i could but lets now do this, suppose you knew that he was a townie (almost sure) then what would you do to save him with +3 votes on his head? The answer is not much since the scum would convince the other people that voting ottofar is the best choice!
Because i knew he was a townie, he acted like me when he broke
*sigh* I hate doing this, but I might be able to play.
What if I'm scum?
You don't seem to understand see if spade was scum then Webadict would be also but in your post you seemed sure that Spade/webadict would be town and the only way you would know that for sure is if you were the scum
Does the game outcome really depend on skill that much?
I mean, hell; he's already told us that - without posting any more - the scum could be found already.
I support Webadict in this statement >_>
Note to all: If you don't let me in, your game dies.
You dang pro's and your omniscience... -_-
Stop making me feel inadequate, you monster. ;_;
Unvote Spade, Vote Jetsquirrel.
if you looked carefully at everything people are saying and put it together, you could figure out the game quite easilyYeah, yeah. "I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."
But you guys don't seem to know what you're looking forWe're looking for scumtells. Are you asking what looks like a scumtell to us? Or are you asking what should we look for instead?
is that all? nothing more to add to that?
Does the game outcome really depend on skill that much?
Yes. Always.
[...]and when we suggest that you should find out what you're looking for, you ignore us.
Maybe if Webaddicts entrance would have been less arrogant, some more people would have listened to him.
However, stop claiming you knew Otto was town on the first day because he acted like you. If you had, you would've said so instead of claiming he didn't need any more votes on him. I've had enough of your bullshit.
Eh, I already explained how you and Jetsquirrel (presuming, for a moment, I bought into his nonsense about knowing Otto was scum) could have saved him. If I recall correctly, there were two other people with a single vote on either of them. Now, if both you and Jetsquirrel had placed your votes on one of those people, then it would have become a tied vote and no one would have been lynched. Better yet, if someone withdrew a vote on someone else in order to make sure at least someone got lynched and they flipped town, it would have all but guaranteed their position as scum. Ah, well; I'm just postulating now. >.>
I still don't know why you tried to defend him, though, considering he wasn't even defending himself. Personally, I still can't even fathom how that makes someone look like town. It was tantamount to active bloody lurking.
...I'm trying to figure out what your point here is. Are you attacking me over rying tp persuade people to lynch Otto because I thought he was scum?
...Jesus. Do you even know what he fuck town have to do?
As for what I thought he was doing... I've explained all that before. If you haven't read it, then it's your own damn fault.
Also, explain to me why no one else bothered to suspect me after day 2 started except you and Jetsquirrel? If I'm so obviously scum, then why hasn't everyone voted for me yet?
So...you think he was town because he acted too scummy.
And you spent the entire first day trying to protect him and now you admit he was acting dumb?
Then in that case you can hardly blame us for thinking he was scum right?
Either way that is a terrible reason and does give you any reason to not suspect him I mean why a townie would play so badly and get himself lynched.
I also love how it seems like you know how a good scum would act considering this is your first game and you are apparently town.
Hmmm, many good points made here. I agree. This is suspicious, though there is definitely the possibility of Mindmaker just being a noob at the beginning. I think he's at the top of my list of Otto's scumbuddies (assuming Otto's scum, everything changes if he's not), along with ragnarok. The only reason I suspect him more is Otto's lynch all lurkers comments realised what use questions were you didn't use them effectively but know your posting these walls of text and working well. Which makes me wonder though it's not impossible for
Otto did not flip scum but that still does not change the fact that Kamina was both suspicious of you and a confirmed townie and he died during the night...coincidence eh? Or did you decide to kill the quietest of those who you thought were on to you so as to avoid suspicion?
No questions that desperately need answering here but I think it is your best interest that you think about all these points.
Quoteif you looked carefully at everything people are saying and put it together, you could figure out the game quite easilyYeah, yeah. "I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."
Heh, now I know what ICs are for. To be cryptic and tell us now much we suck at this game!
We're looking for scumtells. Are you asking what looks like a scumtell to us? Or are you asking what should we look for instead?
I'll answer both questions with one word: dunno.
Gut feeling probably. 'Cause we're.. y'know, beginners.
For some reason I regret having asked for advice already.
However I don't see how this does apply to town.
Maybe if Webaddicts entrance would have been less arrogant, some more people would have listened to him.
You use skill to find the scum and make them slip. Apply pressure. Be powerful. This isn't a game where the scum are picking off the townies like sheep, and the scum control the game. You allow them to control the game. You have to take back control and hunt those scum. Make them scared of you.
We can always blame our own failures on other people's problems. Yes, Webby is very, very arrogant. That is his problem. He is also very, very good at this game. Not listening to him is your problem.
How many scum are there in this game?!?
How many scum are there in this game?!?
Also, there's two. Read the first page; it should've told you everything you needed to know.
Never said I didn't listen to him.
However I was already bulding my own list (in my head), before he told us how badly we sucked.
Anyway I don't think a scum-stereotype will bring us anywhere.
People are different and there won't always be foolproof way to determine someones scumminess.
I'd like to figure it out on my own.
See what their playstlye is, watch their behaviour and simply get to know them.
That much more useful, than a "How scum are you?"-checklist.
By the way, who is getting replaced?I would suggest both of them being replaced.
Spade or Ragnarok?
Because both of them are pretty much inactive, but it only says that one will be replaced.
QuoteUnvote Spade, Vote Jetsquirrel.
is that all? nothing more to add to that?
I find it funny that Murphy votes for me and a few posts later you vote for me, scum buddy maybe?
Azure Why didn't you start attacking me earlier when i was your MAIN FoS? If i really was your main FoS then you would have attacked me much much earlier but you didnt do that so there must be a other reason? One of those reasons can be
1. I said that i knew that Ottofar was town and he turned out town magicly! Coincidence i think not i assumed from his actions that he was town.
2. The fuck im not Elegy post, Which i think is true since quite some people kept asking me stuff about elegy while they should go scumhunting and not ask questions about a person that left.
Like i said that can be 1 of the reasons you have voted for me now. But i think that your vote is scummy, you did exactly in that post what Ottofar did. VOTE because he thinks im scum.
I still don't know why you tried to defend him, though, considering he wasn't even defending himself. Personally, I still can't even fathom how that makes someone look like town. It was tantamount to active bloody lurking.
Are you trying to say here we should only look at a player ONLY from a town angle, because nobody is 100% confirmed and this is a horrible way to play as town.
Several times you considered the actions of players from two angles (mafia/town).
I can't see why you didn't spent a single thought to the possibility of Ottofar being town.
...I'm trying to figure out what your point here is. Are you attacking me over rying tp persuade people to lynch Otto because I thought he was scum?
...Jesus. Do you even know what he fuck town have to do?
Which is funnily enough EXACTLY what Ottofar did as well and he did not even have a legitimate reason nor would he explain himself. If Ottofar did not act how you think a townie should act then why were you so sure he was innocent?
I bloddy well know, that it isn't their job to jump at the first target that offers itself.
So...you think he was town because he acted too scummy.
And you spent the entire first day trying to protect him and now you admit he was acting dumb?
Then in that case you can hardly blame us for thinking he was scum right?
Either way that is a terrible reason and does give you any reason to not suspect him I mean why a townie would play so badly and get himself lynched.
The only thing I could blame you for, is for not thinking outside the box, in a game which basically requires to do so.
I also love how it seems like you know how a good scum would act considering this is your first game and you are apparently town.
That contradicts what you just said.
So I either have no idea, how scum is supposed to act, or I have a damn good idea.
Hmmm, many good points made here. I agree. This is suspicious, though there is definitely the possibility of Mindmaker just being a noob at the beginning. I think he's at the top of my list of Otto's scumbuddies (assuming Otto's scum, everything changes if he's not), along with ragnarok. The only reason I suspect him more is Otto's lynch all lurkers comments realised what use questions were you didn't use them effectively but know your posting these walls of text and working well. Which makes me wonder though it's not impossible for
Otto did not flip scum but that still does not change the fact that Kamina was both suspicious of you and a confirmed townie and he died during the night...coincidence eh? Or did you decide to kill the quietest of those who you thought were on to you so as to avoid suspicion?
No questions that desperately need answering here but I think it is your best interest that you think about all these points.
I bolded the part, which is important.So if you were mafia then you would be doing exactly what you have been today then? Except apparently azure is in your way or something?
Whatever he wrote, was null and void at the end of day 1.
Even though he wasn't a threat, I'd agree he was a viable target. Not too involved or suspicious, but neither to passive.
However assuming that I'm mafia, I'd get rid of Azrure right away.
That would at least lift this fatiguing stalemate.
You could eliminate him, leaving everyone else in the dark.I'd be able to talk my way out of everything else, using the Ottofar-card right and diverting suspicion on any of the other voters, as well as the lurkers
.
Ragnarok has requested a replacement. Now seeking two replacements!You might want to consider modkilling both of them.
Ragnarok has requested a replacement. Now seeking two replacements!You might want to consider modkilling both of them.
I'm going to be too busy and uninterested to play to my full ability, plus asking a newbie to join a game in progress is not ideal.Ragnarok has requested a replacement. Now seeking two replacements!You might want to consider modkilling both of them.
I'd like replacements if at all possible. You said you might, plus I PMed a fellow who posted in DMA that he hadn't played before, asking him if he wanted in. If you both in, we're back up to full.
I'd rather not have to modkill at all, if possible. It's a last resort for any game.It should be fine, barring anyone in dead chat speaking as well.
Also, Kamina has offered to replace back in. It's unorthodox, but no spoilers have been posted in dead chat, and he knows nothing more than he did first go-around. If there are no serious objections, I'll let him replace back in.
Soooo... Kamina. Was there a bright white light at the end of the tunnel, or what?This theory seems pretty bright to me! Dead chat was like a journal, Ottofar said almost nothing.
(http://www.bingegamer.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/phoenix-wright-objection.jpg)Quoteif you looked carefully at everything people are saying and put it together, you could figure out the game quite easilyYeah, yeah. "I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."
Heh, now I know what ICs are for. To be cryptic and tell us now much we suck at this game!QuoteBut you guys don't seem to know what you're looking forWe're looking for scumtells. Are you asking what looks like a scumtell to us? Or are you asking what should we look for instead?
I'll answer both questions with one word: dunno.
Gut feeling probably. 'Cause we're.. y'know, beginners.
For some reason I regret having asked for advice already.
Murphy votes for Otto at last second, bandwagoning and generally being useless to town. But that vote showed a contrast with Jet's, thus separating them so if one gets killed the other will be mostly free of suspicion. And after I was killed Jet immediately jumped to see who I was suspicious of, consistent with a mafia member who killed me to move suspicion on to who I last suspected.
Ok, this is hilarious! Under my theory, Azure's BS argument was correct! XD
And then at Murphy raging at the ICs for giving advice.So you won't believe that a newbie townie can think of ICs as useless?
And Murphy is impersonating a raeging idiot who doesn't get the IC's helpI'm not impersonating anyone. I was just tired of how complex the situation had become; of my own inability to find reliable clues in this mess. And I'm also angry at the ICs claiming to be of help while they in fact can't help the town.
And honestly I could easily see Elegy doing something that stupid.
And continuing, Murphy seems to have known way too many things. No scummy behavior from Elegy, even though he was pretty obviously scummy.Are you speaking of Elegy "protecting" me? It could in fact be a scumtell, no matter if I'm scum or town. But it was the only scumtell by that time. I just considered it too little to accuse Elegy. Ottofar looked way more scummy for me.
He even suggested Otto wasn't scum, just stupidly stubborn. He KNEW that, since he was scum.Now that's ridiculous. Every time someone makes a correct guess, they are automatically assumed to have known all along.
AND Murphy's questions when Jet rejoined seemed an awful lot like something you would ask your scumbuddy.No idea what are you talking about.
Murphy pretty much stopped posting once Ottofar was pretty much the guaranteed lynch.
Murphy votes for Otto at last second, bandwagoning and generally being useless to town.I was thinking that you need 5 votes to lynch someone, dammit! I said so explicitly!
When I pointed out Azure probably won't get NKed, Jet's answer was consistent with the scum not NKing him.Can't find where you did that. It was I who pointed that out:
I'm almost sure Azure will then survive the night, because he would either be mafia himself or a good daytime target for them to blame.
And after I was killed Jet immediately jumped to see who I was suspicious of, consistent with a mafia member who killed me to move suspicion on to who I last suspected.Maybe. Jet is likely scum.
And Murphy claims he's not suspicious, lol nice slip up there bub.Wat?
And look at you lurking in a corner and chuckling evilly.I'm chuckling right now, yeah.
Murphy now protects Jet with the fact that he removed his vote. Now THAT isn't suspicious at all.....You probably misread. I do not protect him. I suspect him because he removed his vote. That's partly the reason I'm voting for him now.
Curiosity from Murphy on how bad Webadict joining will screw him over. What stupid trick is Jet going to pull? He already knows the number of mafia, he can't expect saying that to make him look innocent. So much lolstupid. Probably will out Murphy as scum out of raeg. Or maybe one last ditch chance to save his own skin.I'm curious what is that question Jetsquirrel is going to ask. If he's going to ask it at all.
And I have to prove that I'm actually not that smart :D
... No, you have to prove that you're not scum.Kamina seems to imply that I could only be a townie if I'm not smart =)
AND Murphy's questions when Jet rejoined seemed an awful lot like something you would ask your scumbuddyFound what I was asking Jetsquirrel when he replaced Elegy.
Jetsquirrel, will you maintain the vote Elegy has cast on Ottofar? Feel free to answer after you've taken time to familiarize yourself with the thread.I can see your point now. Although I'm unsure why'd a mafia need to ask their scumbuddy anything at all.
Also, do you consider your position unstable because of Elegy's actions, or do you think that there weren't any scumtells from him?
My tunnel vision shames me :-[ but my money is still on Mindmaker/Jet
Murphy do you have more than that to prove that i'm scum?Just because someone spotted these reasons before, they don't magically become any less convincing.
because you gave the reasons which everybodt already did
and like Kamina said you bandwagoned OttofarI've said already - I was thinking we need 5 votes to lynch him, and if we don't get 5 votes by the end of day, noone will be lynched.
As I've said, a plausible scenario is that scum-Azure's gambit wasn't a gambit initially, but a genuine attack, which he later dropped and then claimed it to be a trap in which Ottofar has fallenWait.
A scum can't attack another scum genuinely.
Do the scum have their own chat?
I was thinking they could only communicate during the night.
heh either way I have enjoyed it.My tunnel vision shames me :-[ but my money is still on Mindmaker/Jet
You'll lose that bet, buddy.
Gaaaaaaaaaah why didn't I notice that..! >.<
If there had been anything in that list - anything - that should have been obvious, it was that. I iz tardd :-[
Ah, well. Feel pretty bad for him. He'd come pretty close to winning until you showed up with your damned logic and giant Phoenix Wright billboard.
You went with me on Otto, which went to hell instead; I'll go with you on this, sayin' as it makes so much damn sense anyway. Unvote Jet, Vote Murphy. Well done on your epic win, sirrah. Perhaps I should strive to be dead more often myself, if it proves to be so enlightening.
This whole replacing and coming back from the dead, is making this beginners game unnecessary confusing.
Are you trying to say here we should only look at a player ONLY from a town angle, because nobody is 100% confirmed and this is a horrible way to play as town.
Which is funnily enough EXACTLY what Ottofar did as well and he did not even have a legitimate reason nor would he explain himself. If Ottofar did not act how you think a townie should act then why were you so sure he was innocent?
You just completely palmed this one away without justification. I mean what the heck you don’t get it I want to know what made you so sure that Ottofar was town and saying that he played badly may be an “Outside the Box” reason for thinking he is town but there is no way that could give you the assurance that you had.
No you see my point is the only way you’d have a good idea is if you had a scum IC assisting you.
So if you were mafia then you would be doing exactly what you have been today then? Except apparently azure is in your way or something?
1. You claim that you certainly knew Ottofar was town despite not having any reason to be assured.
2. You did not start defending him until it was almost certain he would be lynched
3. Since the new day you have started acting a lot more smug and confident and yet bemoaning the fact that the town will lose, which is definitely a scum tell.
You are mafia and that is how you knew Ottofar was town so you defended him after it was almost certain he would be lynched so you could spend all of day two saying “I told you so therefore I am town” Which is a scum tell.
Murphy's defense.My main point isn't each one of those examples, it's the combination of them and how they mesh with EleJet's behavior over the thread that incriminates you. Will counter each individual point later.
P.P.S. Please stop posting unspoilered images. They make the topic harder to read. Or make them smaller at least.Ok, will do.
It then would have been a gambit, which was engineered to look like a genuine attack. However, the way I see it, Azure has been the only thing keeping you guys scumhunting at this point. Why not let the day pass with little-to-no scumhunting, so us townies are totally confused? Honestly I think Azure is town.Quote from: MurphyAs I've said, a plausible scenario is that scum-Azure's gambit wasn't a gambit initially, but a genuine attack, which he later dropped and then claimed it to be a trap in which Ottofar has fallenWait.
I suddenly realized that this couldn't be a genuine attack. A scum can't attack another scum genuinely.
It means that my "Azure=scum" scenario is wrong.
Now I'm truly confused.
Okay, still I'll try to think everything through a bit later. Will we get an extension due to the replacement?
Why Mind, though? Granted I haven't fully analyzed this pairing, but he looks like frustrated town to me, as I (think?) I mentioned in my argument.My tunnel vision shames me :-[ but my money is still on Mindmaker/Jet
You'll lose that bet, buddy.
Gaaaaaaaaaah why didn't I notice that..! >.<
If there had been anything in that list - anything - that should have been obvious, it was that. I iz tardd :-[
Ah, well. Feel pretty bad for him. He'd come pretty close to winning until you showed up with your damned logic and giant Phoenix Wright billboard.
You went with me on Otto, which went to hell instead; I'll go with you on this, sayin' as it makes so much damn sense anyway. Unvote Jet, Vote Murphy. Well done on your epic win, sirrah. Perhaps I should strive to be dead more often myself, if it proves to be so enlightening.
This hipocisy ends now, Azure.
You won't accuse others for not providing any reasons on their own for voting and then do the same thing yourself.
This vote stays here until you elaborate why you are voting for Murphy yourself, or at least deliver a heavily commented version of Kaminas theory.
The way it looks now, is that you tried to rally support against me and as I didn't work out as you expected, you started looking for an easier target.
First elaborate, then vote.
Well at least I tried to think about the possibility.
Why didn't you do that?
And if you did, why didn't you share your thoughts?
How is this a scum tell?
Is there a rule or something?
I'm annoyed for reasons already stated.
Not one damn player here listened to me, although I was right all along.
You didn't even gave my theory a chance.
You're telling me I must be mafia, based on that what I did, would be an unreasonable thing for a townie to do.
However I disagree with you on that.
Okay I think I will back off Mindmaker for now so unvote, you havn't really answered my questions in a way that gets rid of all suspicion nor have you provided good reasoning but I am beggining to suspect that it is mearly a clash on the way we play the game and inexperienced tells, rest assured if either Murphy or Jet is town then you will be straight back to number one.You say that it's a clash in the way you two play the game?
But it seems we aren't getting anywhere right now so I will concentrate on Kamina's accusations. and look through them tomorow.
He's asking why you didn't consider the possibility of Ottofar being town. Way to beat a dead penguin, Mindmaker.Well at least I tried to think about the possibility.
Why didn't you do that?
And if you did, why didn't you share your thoughts?
Actually I am gona need you to explain this one why didn't I do what?
Also fits with Mind being pissed off in general, especially with the fact that we had very few leads until I resurrected myself. And I don't see any confidence from Mind, just anger at the situation, and really wanting to tell everyone HOW STUPID THEY WERE for not agreeing with him in the first place, so we could have gotten more leads.
How is this a scum tell?
Is there a rule or something?
I'm annoyed for reasons already stated.
Not one damn player here listened to me, although I was right all along.
You didn't even gave my theory a chance.
You're telling me I must be mafia, based on that what I did, would be an unreasonable thing for a townie to do.
However I disagree with you on that.
It is a scum tell because if we were on sucessful on day one a scum player would bemoan and complain how they were right in order to influence the rest of the town but they would still be quite happy that they had succesfully eliminated a townie and therefor confidence would grow. understand?
You say that it's a clash in the way you two play the game?
Then this should help: Both Azure and Flintus, what are your philosophies when playing the game? What do you consider a scumtell? How do you think your ideas on playing the game could differ?
Elaborate why you are voting for Murphy yourself, or at least deliver a heavily commented version of Kaminas theory.
What do you think of the Jet/Murphy scum team?
I believe you thought that it was Azure and I yes?
Okay I think I will back off Mindmaker for now so unvote, you havn't really answered my questions[...]
I'll play.
Know mafia well, but never played online. Also never played it in English =)
Consider me a beginner.
I'm the Doc.Oh, I completely forgot that there could be power roles.
lolstupidWhat. Just.... what. You haven't even TRIED to defend yourself, and you're accusing someone suspected as your scumbuddy? Because honestly you're the worst scum I've seen. Ever.
Big post.I already said, he's being so stupid that he could blow your cover at any point. And you call that a good case? What about Azure being the only thing that kept you guys on topic during my absence? Why wouldn't scum just let you guys be stupid together? While I was dead, every time Azure posted I cheered a little. If Azure is scum, he's ridiculously good at it. Not good enough
Do the scum have their own chat?Great way to show you're stupid, it should be obvious that you're just trying to play dumb now. Guess you're desperate.
I was thinking they could only communicate during the night.
The way it looks now, is that you tried to rally support against me and as I didn't work out as you expected, you started looking for an easier target.Or maybe he saw a very convincing theory, and decided to throw his weight behind it? You can't accept he found my theory a good one? Would you care to explain any issues you have with it?
First elaborate, then vote.
It's not like I've ever been in such a heated argument.Hey guys, great idea! Let's accuse more people other than me of being scum! That'll definitely make me look like town.
What games I had played were much calmer. Also there was much more randomness and less deduction.QuoteI'm the Doc.Oh, I completely forgot that there could be power roles.
Wiki says doc claim is mafia.
Way to beat a dead penguin, Mindmaker.
But seriously, Mindmaker, beating a dead horse won't help town.
As for why I'm butting heads with Mindmaker? Most likely because he plays like an ass.
[...]even when his argument gets slapped in the face by stupidscum.
Do you seriously believe Jet, as a normal townie, also knew Otto was town, Mindmaker?
I should ignore every scumtell ever unless I think of it first?
Well, I've thought about it, and I'm going with Kamina's argument because it makes more sense than you being scum. What the hell else do you want?
I'm the Doc. I tried to save Mindmaker night 1 as I figured, if the scum didn't NK me, they'd target my biggest detractor to make me look like an idiot who panics under pressure and kills scary townies. Turns out I'd tried to save the wrong person and I was roleblocked by the scum anyway. This led crecedence (at least to me) to my theory that Mind was scum, as I figured he disliked me enough that - if he couldn't kill me so I could take the heat - he'd at least want a roleblock on me for good measure.
I don't usually play a very aggressive game; I prefer being a lot more quiet and careful than this, being used to playing as the scum more than anything else, but I wanted to hide the Doc is plain sight by being a good deal meaner than I usually am. On the other hand, I didn't realize this might encourage scum to think I was the cop trying to take control of the group, which would explain the roleblock if Mind isn't scum. Since I stupidly said the moment day 2 began that a 'cop with a guilty would be handy right about now', the roleblock would probably be staying on me regardless, so I may as well out.
I was also planning to try to convince scum before night 2 to NK one of the two heavy lurkers as a favour to the game, then I would try to save one of them. If no one died, yay! I have a guaranteed townie. If not, then they weren't much use anyway. If they killed anyone else or if I was roleblocked, then I probably wouldn't have been able to predict it no matter what or it would be irrelevant if I did. Obviously, this all changed when Kamina appeared with his ultra-super-special-awesome scum sheet on Murphy/Jet.
I doubt this'll be enough for Mind anyway, or for anyone else really, so I'll go through Kamina's sheet on a point-by-point basis (although I don't see the purpose, really) and see if I can find a few little scumnuggets of my own.
I'll play.
Know mafia well, but never played online. Also never played it in English =)
Consider me a beginner.
At the very least he's no complete beginner. He can probably still get off with being new to online games, but assuming the game transfers smoothly from forum to IRL play, such a claim should come under scrutiny.
What. Just.... what. You haven't even TRIED to defend yourself, and you're accusing someone suspected as your scumbuddy? Because honestly you're the worst scum I've seen. Ever.
My vote goes to Jet, as I'm not completely convinced on the Murphy part of the story.
It's not like I wanted to do that.Fine, you want to know where we went wrong? For one, Ottofar was acting scummy as hell. For two, we didn't catch any of the Murphy/JetElegy stuff. That's what I think. Details are in my theory.
I'd have let it go a long time ago, if people would have bothered to spend a single post contemplating on what went wrong.
It just looks like everything I posted on day 1, was a total waste of time and effort this way.
I'm saying everthing you said in that post was lolstupid. And you're scum. Did you even read my theory?QuoteWhat. Just.... what. You haven't even TRIED to defend yourself, and you're accusing someone suspected as your scumbuddy? Because honestly you're the worst scum I've seen. Ever.
could you direct it to a quote? because i never evr have written lolstupid in this thread yet. expect now ofcourse.
wanna bet that i'm town?
Town, then scum? Scummy as hell, so many contradictions. And if Azure is doc, he's pretty much guaranteed roleblocked/NKed. Why would he save you, anyway?QuoteMy vote goes to Jet, as I'm not completely convinced on the Murphy part of the story.
Again do you wanna bet on me that i'm scum? Because if you vote me now then the next day scum will be very very close to winning, ofcourse this may not happen if a doctor intervenes.
but whatever i seemed to post as defense got either tossed aside or immideatly called scummy by scum, so now i do present you a choice.Great defense. Give yourself a pat on the back.
You tell everyone to lynch me and i flip town (100% by that)
You go find some real scum
Again do you wanna bet on me that i'm scum? Because if you vote me now then the next day scum will be very very close to winning, ofcourse this may not happen if a doctor intervenes.
You go find some real scumAnd who would you suggest those scum are? Reasons? (Please not more of the same BS)
Kamina, you're being extremely aggressive, it seems like. You're making accusations everywhere and putting the heat on Jet when it's not really needed. It seems like a scumtell to me, trying to get a townie killed and take the aggro off of yourself. Or maybe you're both scum and trying to distance yourself so one of you can survive.How else do you expect to gain info but to apply pressure? I want to see if he's just being really stupid, or if he's actually scum, as I suspect. I'm trying to force him to defend himself properly, so I can give him a fair assessment, however he's not really cooperating. At it's heart, aggression is a towntell. However scum may use it as a strategy. How does attacking aggressively make me less suspicious, exactly? I'm attracting attention, putting myself in the spotlight. And if I were scumbuddies with Jet, you can rest assured I would be voting him, not Murphy. I'd want him killed ASAP. And done properly, the bussing would free me of suspicion. Anyway, he's such an idiot I couldn't coordinate anything with him anyways.
Alright, I've done some reading of the previous posts and this is what I have so far.Where did Azure hint he was a cop, exactly? I must have missed that.
Azure, revealing your "role", imo, is a stupid move. You could go with the "they thought I was a cop and would just RB me again" argument for your actions, and that's plausible enough. But the primary thing causing my suspicion is the fact that you went from hinting that you were a cop to outright claiming that you're a doctor. It's like you want to assure everyone that you're a townie and should be kept safe, but you've already led us wrong about your role once and the defense of being RBed continuously doesn't seem like a strong defense against that in my opinion, it actually seems kind of scummy.
There's no real way to know whether or not you were RBed, so in my opinion, you're probably scum and trying to hide that by claiming you were RBed.
However scum may use it as a strategy
And how am I 'putting accusations everywhere'? I'm just pushing Jet and Murphy. Just 2 people, hardly 'everywhere'.
Since I stupidly said the moment day 2 began that a 'cop with a guilty would be handy right about now'
I didn't realize this might encourage scum to think I was the cop trying to take control of the group
Well, you don't know for sure, do you? That's the fun of mafia! I put myself in the spotlight because I'm confident I can defend myself.QuoteHowever scum may use it as a strategy
If that's true (which it probably is), how are we to know that you're not using that strategy yourself to defend yourself? By putting yourself in the spotlight and bringing in all of the attention, you're doing something that someone wouldn't expect from scum, making it less likely for them to vote to kill you. It seems like a legitimate tactic for a scum to use, but it's difficult to tell whether you're clever scum that's going against the expected (not voting for Jet to clear your name and bringing attention to yourself) or whether you're just a townie doing your thing.
By the way, which question did I not answer, Flintus?
I somehow lost track.
Just remember, that I don't like repeating myself.
Forgot to respond to this part. Why did you think asking for a 'cop with a guilty' implied you were a cop, Azure? I'm genuinely curious. When I was dead, the vibe I was getting was another trap, to get scum to claim they were cop. But I guess now that wasn't the case. Ah well, no one took the bait anyway.QuoteSince I stupidly said the moment day 2 began that a 'cop with a guilty would be handy right about now'QuoteI didn't realize this might encourage scum to think I was the cop trying to take control of the group
Unless I misunderstood what he was saying, it was at the beginning of day two.
While I was dead, every time Azure posted I cheered a little.
Why so intent on lynching one of our best scumhunters, hmmmmm?
Also: Azure, you do realize this makes you a prime target for scum, right? And makes you look a scummier? Surely you do. What exactly do you expect to gain from claiming your role? I'm curious as to your reasoning.
It's not like I wanted to do that.
I'd have let it go a long time ago, if people would have bothered to spend a single post contemplating on what went wrong.
It just looks like everything I posted on day 1, was a total waste of time and effort this way.
We probably both do that.
However I'm not here to be nice and to go a long way round, just to avoid annoying someone.
Being reserved, quiet and minding ones own business, won't save anyone.
You have to be in ones face, if you wan't to get results.
That's one thing Ottofar was right about.
Could you elaborate that?
I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.
Do you seriously believe Jet, as a normal townie, also knew Otto was town, Mindmaker?
Not even for a second.
However, I'll get around to that later.
No, just think about it first, before you start pointing with fingers.
Gee, thanks.
So now I'm supposed to close my eyes and pretend I'm not seeing any inconsistencies, just because you're doing me a favor in lowering me in your list of suspects?
Huh.
To be honest I haven't been really taking roles into account in all my theories.
Is it even allowed to reveal your role (or fake it)?
Let's assume it is.
IRL and online are two complete different things.
This doesn't have to mean anything.
Azure, revealing your "role", imo, is a stupid move. You could go with the "they thought I was a cop and would just RB me again" argument for your actions, and that's plausible enough. But the primary thing causing my suspicion is the fact that you went from hinting that you were a cop to outright claiming that you're a doctor. It's like you want to assure everyone that you're a townie and should be kept safe, but you've already led us wrong about your role once and the defense of being RBed continuously doesn't seem like a strong defense against that in my opinion, it actually seems kind of scummy.
There's no real way to know whether or not you were RBed, so in my opinion, you're probably scum and trying to hide that by claiming you were RBed.
Forgot to respond to this part. Why did you think asking for a 'cop with a guilty' implied you were a cop, Azure? I'm genuinely curious. When I was dead, the vibe I was getting was another trap, to get scum to claim they were cop. But I guess now that wasn't the case. Ah well, no one took the bait anyway.
Spoiler: HEY JET (click to show/hide)
Several reasons. For one, there was nothing else to do with it but make a claim with it. :(That cleared it up, thanks.
I couldn't save people because of the scum roleblocker who most likely targetted me because I acted very confident and aggressive during day 1, (like a cop would, in hindsight) and because I openly mentioned at the start of day 2 that a cop with a guilty would be pretty handy, which sounded like something a cop would say if he'd been roleblocked and was pissy about it (in hindsight). So... yeah; like I said, it was an impotent role that couldn't work its intended function any longer. The only thing left for it was to out it - along with what I'd tried to do, my motivations, what had happened as a result and my future plans for the role. It's only information now, but any and all information is useful to town.
Secondly, to gauge reactions.
Not really for myself - I'm already quite set on a Murphy/Jet lynch for now - but for the town in general. For instance; Murphy's first move upon hearing it was to try foisting suspicion on me for making the claim, whereas it appears to have been enough to convince Mind to settle on a Jet lynch instead of me, at least for the time being. Jet simply spazzed out, but that's all he ever really does. Native seems also to suspect me for it, but sayin' as I doubt he's read up on the game yet, I'm not gonna slam him for it. He also seems kind of new and for some reason thinks I'm making a cop claim. ??? Flintus hasn't made his opinion clear yet, but he likely will soon enough. More information for the town, right there. All it took was a claim.
Thirdly... well, it would be inconvienent if the scum knew about this one, so I'm gonna keep it a secret. I rather hope it works, though; as far as I can see, this is well in the town's best interest in case things go south with the lynch.
At the time, I'd lost my nerve and gotten depressed over lynching Otto. I was also annoyed that the maf had roleblocked me on the first night, so I acted like impudent child and complained about it, without giving any specifics in the post. However, assuming the roleblocker was paying attention, (which he must have been doing - otherwise there was no point in choosing me) I've theorized he'd presumed I had reacted to his block by trying to WIFOM myself away from it and, as a result, could hazard a guess at me being the cop but could be almost certain I was a power role. Or, at least, that's how I'd look at it, we're it someone else in my shoes.Then I would have to guess Murphy would be roleblocker. I couldn't see Jet thinking up something like that. He'd just be like 'HURPDURP IM IN YUR MAFA BLOKIN YOR ROLS'. Another reason we should kill Murphy first, to free up Azure's doc role. That would help a lot.
I gotta stop doing long-ass posts. -_- It's, like, half 1 in the morning and I have a class at 9 that I can't miss.I do the same thing. I just keep getting ideas about the game, and I have this 'just one more refresh, and someone will have posted something now' thing going on.
Heh. XD I can't be the only person who finds the text under his avi ironic. I just can't be.Nope, I do too. HOW WILL YOU WIN, JET? TELL ME BUDDY!!!
Great way to show you're stupid, it should be obvious that you're just trying to play dumb now.The fact that I overlooked some stupid rule does not make me stupid.
And you call that a good case? What about Azure being the only thing that kept you guys on topic during my absence? Why wouldn't scum just let you guys be stupid together? While I was dead, every time Azure posted I cheered a little. If Azure is scum, he's ridiculously good at it. Not good enoughFirst of all, being smart (and looking smart) doesn't make you any more or less likely to be scum.
You listed jet as #1, which I can agree with, that is of you town. But you're just going with your last plan, as you would immediately be called out as scum if you changed it. I don't see how Azure is anywhere near #2, for reasons mentioned above. Why so intent on lynching one of our best scumhunters, hmmmmm? Of course you want me hanging, but don't want to be too obvious about it, so you put me under your other two targets. And nothing from Mindmaker? While I don't think he's scum, he would be my next choice after you and Jet.Did you overlook my following post?
Quote from: MurphyAs I've said, a plausible scenario is that scum-Azure's gambit wasn't a gambit initially, but a genuine attack, which he later dropped and then claimed it to be a trap in which Ottofar has fallenWait.
I suddenly realized that this couldn't be a genuine attack. A scum can't attack another scum genuinely.
It means that my "Azure=scum" scenario is wrong.
The fact that I overlooked some stupid rule does not make me stupid.No, it doesn't. It means you're trying to look stupid. Assuming you're smart scum, this is you trying to look like town. You used WIFOM to cover it up.
First of all, being smart (and looking smart) doesn't make you any more or less likely to be scum.No, smart doesn't make you less likely to be scum. But good scumhunting, and not letting this thread stall seems like a towntell to me.
Second, dropping hints about having a power role and claiming doc - for a townie these would be mistakes, and how can you be sure these weren't done intentionally by mafia-Azure, to look like a valuable townsperson?
Third, he's not that errorproof. See day 1.
Did you overlook my following post?I guess that I missed that, it was late when I wrote that post. Sorry about that.
I later realized that Azure and Jet can't be mafia at the same time. And since I'm almost sure about Jet... go figure:
No, smart doesn't make you less likely to be scum. But good scumhunting, and not letting this thread stall seems like a towntell to me.Not really. A smart townie does scumhunting. A smart scum fakes scumhunting. Both are very active.
I wrote a detailed explanation of my reasoning here, but then I foolishly forgot ctrl-click to quote Flintus from earlier in the thread, and I don't feel like rewriting that, so you'll get the abridged version.QuoteNo, smart doesn't make you less likely to be scum. But good scumhunting, and not letting this thread stall seems like a towntell to me.Not really. A smart townie does scumhunting. A smart scum fakes scumhunting. Both are very active.
But this probably doesn't matter right now. Azure's scumminess should be reconsidered only if Jet suddenly flips town.
Seriously people, do vote.
If there's no lynch, then there will be just an NK of the least suspicious person.
Who's least suspicious now? NativeForeigner? Flintus?
Well, whatever.
I mean, we'll just be one townie short.
Even if the lynchee flips town - are we better off with two less townies, one of whom was under heavy suspicion, than with one less townie but no less suspects?
Sigh...
Probably we can get another extension?
Flintus did vote, he just go overlooked.He unvoted:
Okay I think I will back off Mindmaker for now so unvote, you havn't really answered my questions in a way that gets rid of all suspicion nor have you provided good reasoning but I am beggining to suspect that it is mearly a clash on the way we play the game and inexperienced tells, rest assured if either Murphy or Jet is town then you will be straight back to number one.
But it seems we aren't getting anywhere right now so I will concentrate on Kamina's accusations. and look through them tomorow.
(Bah-Post)Not as long as I'm around!
Whoa. For a few days I thought this was dead.
Oh, I completely forgot that there could be power roles.
Wiki says doc claim is mafia.
Right there it was like he was making a point to show that he had to use the wiki, and his ignorance of the situation of power roles. It seems like he's been playing stupid quite a few times, like when it came to scumchat, and claiming he's only played IRL, but then he turns around and makes a cohesive list of his suspects. He doesn't seem to be new to the game at all, just to the online version. He could very well be trying to play us all.
Those are my thoughts as of right now, if any of you have further evidence, that would be great. Or we could go for a no-vote.
Nice catch there! I missed that one. But I agree with Azure on the point he made.QuoteOh, I completely forgot that there could be power roles.
Wiki says doc claim is mafia.
Right there it was like he was making a point to show that he had to use the wiki, and his ignorance of the situation of power roles. It seems like he's been playing stupid quite a few times, like when it came to scumchat, and claiming he's only played IRL, but then he turns around and makes a cohesive list of his suspects. He doesn't seem to be new to the game at all, just to the online version. He could very well be trying to play us all.
Or we could go for a no-vote.Hell no. Read above about how that would affect us with LYLO and MYLO. We need to lynch scum.
He unvoted:But then he voted again:Okay I think I will back off Mindmaker for now so unvote, you havn't really answered my questions in a way that gets rid of all suspicion nor have you provided good reasoning but I am beggining to suspect that it is mearly a clash on the way we play the game and inexperienced tells, rest assured if either Murphy or Jet is town then you will be straight back to number one.
My point was I wasn't satisfied with the answers to why you thought Offofar was town. You answer was bascially "Because he didn't play wel.l" But either way we can drop this for now as we have more important things to worry about.
And while I agree that if the pairing of Murphy and Jet is the scum then Murphy will be more dangerous but Jet's constant lieing and changing his mind in addition to his "You fools will all see" defence have left me certain that he his the scum while Murphy I am still not 100% sure about. Though Kamina's case looks relatively solid.
You're right. How did I miss that?He unvoted:But then he voted again:Okay I think I will back off Mindmaker for now so unvote, you havn't really answered my questions in a way that gets rid of all suspicion nor have you provided good reasoning but I am beggining to suspect that it is mearly a clash on the way we play the game and inexperienced tells, rest assured if either Murphy or Jet is town then you will be straight back to number one.My point was I wasn't satisfied with the answers to why you thought Offofar was town. You answer was bascially "Because he didn't play wel.l" But either way we can drop this for now as we have more important things to worry about.
And while I agree that if the pairing of Murphy and Jet is the scum then Murphy will be more dangerous but Jet's constant lieing and changing his mind in addition to his "You fools will all see" defence have left me certain that he his the scum while Murphy I am still not 100% sure about. Though Kamina's case looks relatively solid.
You're right. How did I miss that?
You are George Land, a Townsperson.
They say a lawyer should never defend themselves in court. You ignored that advice, and wound up here. No matter, now- you must use your brain to figure out who is in the Mafia, so you can get out of this blasted hotel and see your sons again. You shudder at the thought of them having to grow up without a father, after losing their mother to cancer just a few months prior...
You are Norman Herbert, a Townsperson.
Your store has repeatedly been victimized by the Mafia. It started as vandalism and burglary, but soon you were forced into a protection racket. You were truly excited to hear of the Mafia shootout. Your glee turned to shock when they came up to you and said you were suspected of being in the Mafia! Apparently some protection money was traced back to you. You loudly protested your innocence, but it fell on deaf ears. Now you’re stuck here with the remainder of the Mafia... and you will get vengeance! Root them out and see them hang!
Murphy, you claimed Azure could be scum if Jet flips town. But if you were scum, you would have known Jet would flip town, you would have counted on it. So then you would have taken the chance to dirty up what I would consider our least dirty player. Seems suspicious to me.
And I wonder why scum chose to nk Mind. I would have thought they would go for Azure. Or me, but maybe they would want to keep me alive to blame for this FUCKING HORRIBLE situation, as my theory was at least partially responsible for it. Or they could have nked Flintus, as I haven't seen anything much suspicious from him yet. May be the theory he said he had in case Jet flips town, which scum would have known would happen.
Now that I think about it, Azure being left alive is consistent with Murphy trying to dirty his rep. Why dirty someone up if you're just going to nk him?
MAYBE YOU'D LIKE A FUCKING MEDAL, JET?! A MEDAL FOR WORST FUCKING TOWN PLAY EVER! YOU JUST PUT US IN FUCKING LYLO, THANKS A BUNCH, PAL!
WIFOM. Scum could have used what he'd said against him. I know I would've, especially when it kept getting pointed out to me.Hmm, you mean it like this:
More WIFOM. If I was scum, I would so leap on that motherfucker. Just like you're doing.So that's why you never ever seem to pay much attention to my suspicion against you? You prefer to prove yourself town by hunting scum, not by wasting time defending.
I doubt you could miss just how much you're postulating at the moment, Kamina.I could that late in the night. It's easier to focus on one person when you're tired and don't feel like trawling through the rest of the thread. And I was pissed I deleted it. It's hard to think straight then.
WIFOM. Scum could have used what he'd said against him. I know I would've, especially when it kept getting pointed out to me.Fair point. But I'm confused as to how it kept getting pointed out to me. Could you point me to exactly where it was repeated? I only saw it the once. You're right as to pretty much all of my arguments being WIFOM crap. Therefore I'll drop them, and start the scumhunt anew.
Simultaneously distancing yourself from the scum NK and trying to make the choice seem impenetrable by WIFOMing the hell out of it. Seen scum do that before and likely will again. For one thing, I can't imagine any kind of scum that would be jumpy enough during an easy lylo to fire off a NK based on someone suggesting another theory. Particularly when said theory could potentially help the scum, assuming Murphy really is one of them. He'd have to be a short-sighted moron to NK Mind based on that, which - if I were to follow your theory of Murphy being a lot smarter than he appears to be - seems rather unlikely.
More WIFOM. If I was scum, I would so leap on that motherfucker. Just like you're doing.See what I was saying above.
I doubt you could miss just how much you're postulating at the moment, Kamina. All of it still centered around Murphy, too - even when the vast majority of your argument died with Jet, considering the amount that was based around the interplay between those two. This is a vote we really need to get right, and you're forcing a bottle of Moet et Chandon down someone else's throat before the rest of us can even get our bearings. I don't like it. Not one bit. Got anything else on anyone else, or do you plan to keep hassling the same person with whatever you can pull out of your cellar?I'm not trying to force anything anywhere. See above on dropping my attack on Murphy. I'm willing to work together with everyone else to find the scum. Though I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to redeem myself in your eyes, Azure. Is there? And why would posting it first be before you could ''get your bearings"? You can think all you like. It's not like the day ends anytime soon.
Frankly speaking, town, I think I'm right on the money with this one - the scum don't feel threatened by us because they were outside our scope by the start of night 2. I also doubt the scum could even try and engineer this kind of prediction from anyone, as it would be much too risky to wing the game if they thought they were in trouble. Mindmaker was also a player who's final vote could also have gone either way at the end and was therefore a liability for the scum at lylo (which implies at least some thought went into the NK, but it was still odd to take out a suspect player), whereas I looked quite firmly in Kamina's camp by the end of the night, having wanted a Murphy lynch. He was also the only other player besides myself I thought kept the game alive by dogging my every step and engaging in a pretty fierce argument with myself; even if he did whine more than was strictly necessary.Not sure if there's any way I can respond to this...
Also: In hindsight, Jet gave us a town tell before he died - he didn't vote to prevent his own death. He didn't try to force us into a mylo, but just kept his vote out. Not something that would've saved him before the end, really, but still worth noting for future reference. Which makes Native's vote look like a pre-emptive move to stop this from happening, although whether this is due to him honestly thinking Jet was scum or because he'd been advised to do so by another player I don't know, due to his apparent inexperience and lack of time in the game.Good point. I'm not sure if he actually thought that much about it. I mean, it's JET we're talking about here. He probably just said 'SCREW YOU GUYZ I DONT GIVE NO CARES NO MORE'.
Even if I don't agree with much in that post, I agree with this. Jet is the most grating, mindless, unhelpful townie I have ever encountered. Bar none. A comatose rock could've played better.At least we have some common ground. ::)
Hmm, you mean it like this:I'm pretty sure this is what he's saying. But I'm not sure what you mean by tie.
1) There's a tie coming.
2) I say "if Jet flips town then Azure is mafia"
3) The real mafia hears me and decides to support me in my vote against Jet (knowing that Jet is town).
4) Jet flips town. Mafia can now either wait for me to blame Azure and support me (getting 3 votes), or blame me like Kamina did.
Right?
So that's why you never ever seem to pay much attention to my suspicion against you? You prefer to prove yourself town by hunting scum, not by wasting time defending.Indeed, Otto and Jet were town, and Otto was awfully scummy, and my Murphy-Jet theory make a lot of sense to me, and Azure seemed convinced of it. Everything we thought was wrong. I'm looking forward to you elaborating on this.
I have to admit, I have many doubts. I can think of a semi-good scenario that would assume you mafia and explain the situation from that angle.
But I've seen now how such scenarios can look good and still be wrong.
Also, no man is perfect. Should you be mafia, you would've slipped at least once.
Judging from what I said above, my current list of suspects (from most suspected to least suspected) isI can understand your suspicion of me, but why Native? I haven't seen you give anything against him. Is this because of Azure thinking that Native voting Jet could be a preemptive move to stop Jet from tying the game? But wait. Wouldn't that make him town? He would prevent the mylo situation. But how could he have been advised by someone if he's not scum? I've probably overlooked something here.
1) Kamina
2) Native (former Ragnarok)
3) Azure/Flintus
MAYBE YOU'D LIKE A FUCKING MEDAL, JET?! A MEDAL FOR WORST FUCKING TOWN PLAY EVER! YOU JUST PUT US IN FUCKING LYLO, THANKS A BUNCH, PAL!
And I wonder why scum chose to nk Mind. I would have thought they would go for Azure. Or me, but maybe they would want to keep me alive to blame for this FUCKING HORRIBLE situation, as my theory was at least partially responsible for it. Or they could have nked Flintus, as I haven't seen anything much suspicious from him yet. May be the theory he said he had in case Jet flips town, which scum would have known would happen.
Now that I think about it, Azure being left alive is consistent with Murphy trying to dirty his rep. Why dirty someone up if you're just going to nk him?
Which makes Native's vote look like a pre-emptive move to stop this from happening, although whether this is due to him honestly thinking Jet was scum or because he'd been advised to do so by another player I don't know, due to his apparent inexperience and lack of time in the game.
Alright, wait, wait, wait. Things are getting a little sloppy here. Kamina, you had a lot of scumtells in your post.Oh no, I'm exaggerating my anger. I MUST BE SCUM!!!!!QuoteMAYBE YOU'D LIKE A FUCKING MEDAL, JET?! A MEDAL FOR WORST FUCKING TOWN PLAY EVER! YOU JUST PUT US IN FUCKING LYLO, THANKS A BUNCH, PAL!
While definitely true, it also seems like you're trying to make an exaggerated statement on how "pissed" you are about this, trying to come off as town. But you overdid it, making you seem scummy.
Then you immediately went to trying to bring others into the spotlight of suspicion in what could be taken as an attempt to keep yourself out of it. You even went so far as to give the FOS to Murphy with no real evidence other than Jet flipping town and Murphy's accusations against Azure. It was a hasty, sloppy move.
Azure:Jegus, where did you get the idea that a FoS is such a huge deal? It's just to show you find someone a bit suspicious, but not enough for a vote. It's not a huge deal.
You're not out of the picture, despite Kamina's post. It could be that Kamina is just town (albeit sloppy town) and you're using his telltale post as cover for your own scumminess. But if that were the case, you're going about it in a much better way. You're giving very few, if any scumtells other than your haste is FOSing Kamina. And even that was with reason. But it could be that both you and Kamina are scum and, seeing your scumbuddy fuck up in such a way, you came to the decision to bus him, to take the suspicion away from yourself at the cost of your scumbuddy. Unfortunately, this is just speculation at the moment.
What we need to do now is take a step back and look at things. We're in LYLO now, we can't afford to be hasty with our lynching this time. Some thought and consideration needs to be put into it so we don't lose.Agreed. We CANNOT mess this one up. We do, and game over. We'll probably need a few extensions. We'll see.
I can understand your suspicion of me, but why Native? I haven't seen you give anything against him. Is this because of Azure thinking that Native voting Jet could be a preemptive move to stop Jet from tying the game? But wait. Wouldn't that make him town? He would prevent the mylo situation. But how could he have been advised by someone if he's not scum? I've probably overlooked something here.
Looking at Azure's points in your defense, and rereading my theory, you do seem much less scummy to me at this point. Seeing as you seem to agree with Azure, who would you suggest as my scumbuddy? Is it, as your list suggests, Native? What exactly makes him look suspicious at this point?I don't really suspect you that much. Nor him.
...NEVER AGAIN!
I am never again building a massive post. Sorry I've made you all wait, but... fuck, I'm not doing that again. Built up over my spare time for the past few days,and now... all gone, because my laptop charger is on the fritz. -___-
Extension, please. I won't be trying again until I've stopped being pissed off, but I'll try again later today if I have any spare time.
NativeForeigner has been prodded for not posting for over 48 hours. Flintus and Murphy are next if they do not post soon.
This has been one of the best BMs I've seen in ages. You guys are interested, motivated, incisive, insightful, alert and agile, all you need is critical mass of players to keep going. If NativeWhatever or somesuch is not up to it, someone else will have to fill the spot, but all y'all other guys: DON'T DO THIS: It's the worst label in a mafia group to be labeled as a flaker
Flintus, I humbly ask you to support me against Jetsquirrel. I doubt that you will get any support to your current vote, and everyone (even those accusing me) seems to agree that Jetsquirrel is a mafia. I realize that with Jet flipping mafia, I'll still be under heavy suspicion. But at least we won't have a LyLo on the third day..
Quote from: zathrasThis has been one of the best BMs I've seen in ages. You guys are interested, motivated, incisive, insightful, alert and agile, all you need is critical mass of players to keep going. If NativeWhatever or somesuch is not up to it, someone else will have to fill the spot, but all y'all other guys: DON'T DO THIS: It's the worst label in a mafia group to be labeled as a flakerDude, chill out. I've had work all day monday and school today. (Excluding Sunday when I was relaxing all day). I actually have a life offline that tends to take priority occasionally.
This has been one of the best BMs I've seen in ages. You guys are interested, motivated, incisive, insightful, alert and agile, all you need is critical mass of players to keep going.
Also is there a way to know whether or not you have been roleblocked?
There must have been a few minutes in between to remember a commitment you posted to a game that is stalled without your participation.
So to see you ask me help you vote for someone we now know was a townie in order to save your own skin. (And it was definetely possible that you knew Jet would be lynched over you as you yourself said 'Everyone suspected him')If I'm being accused all over the place and also believe to have found the true scum - I'm not going to just sit and wait.
Flintus, Murphy, and EVERYONE ELSE, this goes for you too: PLAY THE FUCKING GAME YOU SAID YOU'D PLAY!Why so nervous?
And how could I possibly know that Jet would be lynched over me? Even if I was mafia, there would be no way to know that. There weren't even any votes on him by that time.You specifically wrote everyone agreed he was mafia before you voted for him, hafta admit that sounds like you were reasonably assured he was gona be lynched.
In fact, I wonder why did you ignore it.Why would I want to do what you say and not follow my own feelings and arguments? I wasn't totally down with the possibility of you being mafia back then but of those still alive now you were the one that looked most suspect. Particulalry as you really didn't come into the game untill Kamina returned and then you became alot more active.
I don't really suspect you that much. Nor him.
If I'm being accused all over the place and also believe to have found the true scum - I'm not going to just sit and wait.Wut. Contradictions all up in this bitch.
EVERYONE ELSE, this goes for you too: PLAY THE FUCKING GAME YOU SAID YOU'D PLAY!JEGUS I play paranormal for ONE DAY, and suddenly I'm a douche? Calm the fuck down, I planned to post here more today.
If you lurk, it dies, not just for you, but for the other folks as well. Don't be a douche.
Don't scumhunt Zathras.Flintus, Murphy, and EVERYONE ELSE, this goes for you too: PLAY THE FUCKING GAME YOU SAID YOU'D PLAY!Why so nervous?
I've almost lost interest in this game already. But I'm going to continue because I signed up, and it doesn't really matter if you scream and swear all over the place or not.
You specifically wrote everyone agreed he was mafia before you voted for him, hafta admit that sounds like you were reasonably assured he was gona be lynched.Right, I said something like "look, even Kamina and Azure, who are voting for me, still agree on Jet being mafia".
I did not mean why didn't you do what I said.In fact, I wonder why did you ignore it.Why would I want to do what you say and not follow my own feelings and arguments?
Where?I don't really suspect you that much. Nor him.If I'm being accused all over the place and also believe to have found the true scum - I'm not going to just sit and wait.Wut. Contradictions all up in this bitch.
Don't scumhunt Zathras.Because they are arrogant.
A) He's not in the game.
B) He's a hella lot better player than you.
IN FACT, why do you get so touchy every time an experienced player posts? The only reason I see is you being afraid of him revealing you to be scum.
Missed the if. I read that out of context, as if you were saying you had found the true scum now. Which contradicts you saying you don't really suspect your top suspects.Where?I don't really suspect you that much. Nor him.If I'm being accused all over the place and also believe to have found the true scum - I'm not going to just sit and wait.Wut. Contradictions all up in this bitch.
Yes, I did not suspect you that much. Nor did I suspect Native.
I explained that you two only became top of my list because I dropped Azure and townflipped Jet from it.
I gathered what I think about you in one of the above posts, but I fail to see where was I saying that you are scum.
And yes, during day 2 I was being accused all over the place and also believed to have found the true scum - Jetsquirrel.
Where there are contradictions, huh?
You'd better not leave beginner's mafia then, since everyone is a 'jerk' in the 'real' ones. Heaven forbid you ever play in the same game as webadict.Quote from: KaminaSquirtleDon't scumhunt Zathras.Because they are arrogant.
A) He's not in the game.
B) He's a hella lot better player than you.
IN FACT, why do you get so touchy every time an experienced player posts? The only reason I see is you being afraid of him revealing you to be scum.
It's not like being an experienced player gives one the right to be a jerk. Especially in a game where he or she is not participating.
And I'm not "scumhunting" him, I'm telling him to either stop being a jerk or get lost. I'm not going to let it go just because everyone is looking for an opportunity to blame me in-game.
NativeForeigner has been prodded for not posting for over 48 hours. Flintus and Murphy are next if they do not post soon.
GAAAaahhhhhh!!! AGAIN?!
Dammit, you newbies take notice: If there's a lesson you can learn from this game, it's this: LURKING KILLS GAMES. DON'T FUCKING LURK OR FLAKE!
Goddammit! If you sign up to play a game, it's minimal courtesy to actually play it!
This has been one of the best BMs I've seen in ages. You guys are interested, motivated, incisive, insightful, alert and agile, all you need is critical mass of players to keep going. If NativeWhatever or somesuch is not up to it, someone else will have to fill the spot, but all y'all other guys: DON'T DO THIS: It's the worst label in a mafia group to be labeled as a flaker.
I've been reading this game since before the first day, and you guys have been doing great. Much better than the BMs I played. I know you can pull it off, Don't be discouraged by the gutless worms in your midst that didn't have the spine to stand by the game. Don't despair. You can win this.
I'm certain that while you were dead, you were actually believing me to be scum. But after you rejoined, you might've gotten a scum role and voila - the material you're gathered would be ideal to use as a means to lynch a townie. But you didn't hesitate to post the prepared wall-of-text really fast after rejoining, apparently without giving it a second thought, so I think you got what you expected - a town role.(sorry if me quoting myself bothers someone)
I think we may need another extension, we're not getting anywhere.Agree.
We have a lot of speculation going on here, but we need some solid tells in order to make a decision that won't lose the game.
There was a lot of speculation about Azure on my part, and Native did some too. None of it went further than just speculation, so if Azure is indeed scum, then he is being very, very good at it - no slips and an extremely helpful outlook for the town. Anyone know if he's really that much experienced? For now, unless a good objection is made, I'll consider him town.Let me check the games he's played in. I may have an idea.
So if Azure is indeed scum, then he is being very, very good at it - no slips and an extremely helpful outlook for the town.I agree wholeheartedly with this the biggest problem of course being if anyone could play the whole game as mafia and get through it without any obvious slips it would probably be Azure. Although out of all his votes so far Azure hasn’t actually started a single one except against Ragnarok which was for lurking and not likely to turn up as a lynch, not that that is overly scummy.
sorry for not doing stuff, stuff happened. Nothing to say, really. Sad that we're not doing so well.Although this post made on day two right after we screwed up on Ottofar and lost Kamina Mark I makes me think Ragnarok was either the worst townie ever or actively lurking scum just desperately trying to post anything. Most of Ragnarok's other posts were just excuses as to why he wasn't playing...If he really was a uninterested townie who didn't care about our cause this makes me wonder why he seemed to still want to stay alive and in the game.
Flintus, tell me why you're not scum, and why I should remove this vote.Simple answer is of course because if I die we lose the game. So far this day nobody has been helpful and instead of just forcing posts by voting why don’t you go back through a couple of days and see what you can find Kamina. We have to actually work together to get evidence seeing as it’s day 3 and we really have barely any idea.
Agree with 1st paragraph. He hasn't really started anything, just backed stuff up. Please provide examples if you disagree, Azure.So if Azure is indeed scum, then he is being very, very good at it - no slips and an extremely helpful outlook for the town.I agree wholeheartedly with this the biggest problem of course being if anyone could play the whole game as mafia and get through it without any obvious slips it would probably be Azure. Although out of all his votes so far Azure hasn’t actually started a single one except against Ragnarok which was for lurking and not likely to turn up as a lynch, not that that is overly scummy.
And I looked through to see anything between him and Ragnarok but turned up nothing. They didn’t specifically look like they had distanced themselves on purpose and neither did they look to close. Ragnarok was definitely online a lot more often than he posted and seemed to be actively lurking which is a lot like I played when I was first scum but of course we are different people. What do you guys think Active lurking scum or just uninterested town?
Either way I would really like to see azure post his thoughts.
Either way I would really like to see azure post his thoughts.Where did he defend himself enough to show he wanted to keep playing? He didn't even defend himself IIRC. Please point out where he did.sorry for not doing stuff, stuff happened. Nothing to say, really. Sad that we're not doing so well.Although this post made on day two right after we screwed up on Ottofar and lost Kamina Mark I makes me think Ragnarok was either the worst townie ever or actively lurking scum just desperately trying to post anything. Most of Ragnarok's other posts were just excuses as to why he wasn't playing...If he really was a uninterested townie who didn't care about our cause this makes me wonder why he seemed to still want to stay alive and in the game.
Just because I voted you doesn't mean I don't want to work with you. And that's a very weak argument. I don't intend to lynch you, not yet anyways.Flintus, tell me why you're not scum, and why I should remove this vote.Simple answer is of course because if I die we lose the game. So far this day nobody has been helpful and instead of just forcing posts by voting why don’t you go back through a couple of days and see what you can find Kamina. We have to actually work together to get evidence seeing as it’s day 3 and we really have barely any idea.
Where did he defend himself enough to show he wanted to keep playing? He didn't even defend himself IIRC. Please point out where he did.
I apologise for not posting much, got a lot of things going on right now, and in any case, I try not to put something up unless It is important. not a very good strategy for Mafia, I guess. anyway, I think that a vote at this point in the game would be founded more on random suspicion than any reasoned deduction of who is actually on the scumteam. Really, I think we'd be better off waiting untill we have some evidence to lynch anyone. right now, we have random guesswork, decently laid traps, and mob mentality to discern the scum. from this turns effects, we may be able to deduce, from who is killed, and what their suspicions were, who is likely to need lynching. on that note, I guess...
unvote
Well, he's got a point Elegy, you seem kind of suspicious.I went to sleep, pretty much right after that last post of mine, and then about a page of stuff got posted overnight...
However before I cast a vote I'd like to see a bit more mor kamina squirtle and ragnarok.
They're being very quiet.
So, Ragnarok, what's up with all this lurking?
Well, actually, I just don't post much ever. Really, there is usually not much that I can think of something to say to. also, I have most of my day taken up by either school or sleeping, as well as other things I do with my family. I usually post when I can. I am NOT going to wake up early just so I can play this game, and it's pretty much impossible for me to stay up past 10:00 EST (In high school, so I have a curfew), so I have 7 and a half hours in which I can do stuff, minus a half for walking home, minus a half for dinner, minus others from when I just don't check (about 2 hours in full), and for today, minus a bunch for going out to dinner and playing Magic the Gathering with my bro. I show up as online a lot because I usually leave a tab open on the "Unread Replies" page when I leave. I have things that I am obligated to do outside of this thread, guys, and to be honest, this actually doesn't rate too high on my priorities right now, mostly because of all of the hate I seem to be catching (yes I am aware that most of that is because I don't post here much, thus making it a vicious cycle), though I know that this is so that you can semi-reliably find the people who need to die (in game). Hell, if all goes well, I may not be able to get on during any time but the weekends, as I am trying to find a part-time job. I was unaware that I needed approval in triplicate in order to have a life away from this game. Also I play dwarf fortress, and it tends to hold me for a few hours at a time.
sorry for not doing stuff, stuff happened. Nothing to say, really. Sad that we're not doing so well.
Let me rephrase the question: please show some examples of scumhunting on your part. I just want to see how you defend yourself. That's different than going back and seeing what you did. I'll remove my vote when you answer the question, unless your answer screams scum or something.
I've found a good game to observe, if anyone else wants to see Azure play scum. BM XVI. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=66479.0)
I haven't read it yet, but it should be very enlightening.
You may have something there, but to me it just seemed like he felt obligated to explain why he wasn't posted. He eventually realized he wasn't playing, and decided to give up his position to Native.Where did he defend himself enough to show he wanted to keep playing? He didn't even defend himself IIRC. Please point out where he did.
My point was if he didn't care I don't know why about half his posts were just excuses. \
I guess you're right. The point of the question was to get some content-filled posts rolling. I think we can say it worked. You also seem to me to be town at this point.Let me rephrase the question: please show some examples of scumhunting on your part. I just want to see how you defend yourself. That's different than going back and seeing what you did. I'll remove my vote when you answer the question, unless your answer screams scum or something.
This is oh so easily something that would be answered better if you went back and looked into what I have done. Everything against Mindmaker was an attempt to scum-hunt. Day one I tried to have spade (/you) try to participate and got nowhere. I tried to get Jet to actually provide some freaking evidence and he did not. People just seemed to stop answering alot of my questions by day two and so I couldn’t get anywhere.
But seriously it would be better for both of us if you just looked back through what I have posted so far and made your own opinion because honestly I think you are just asking what Zatharas asked you in Paranormal and am not totally sure if you even know what answers you are looking for.
I’d seriously be happy to justify any of my actions to help assert that I am town but you are gona have to give me specific actions that need justification (find quote ask how I intended it to benifit town ect ect). I mean I was almost positive Ottofar was scum and do not know how Jet wasn’t and pretty much everyone else made those same mistakes.
Still I am at least glad things seem to be moving again I just wish the others would get in here and start posting .
Fixed that for you. See sorcerer's apprentice mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=68920.0) to see scum Jet. He sucks just as bad at scum as town.I've found a good game to observe, if anyone else wants to see Azure play scum. BM XVI. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=66479.0)
I haven't read it yet, but it should be very enlightening.
Reading now, and I think if we had looked at this earlier we would have realised Jet is just bad at mafia :(
Well in that game nobody could get a good read on Azure as scum either ??? And while his playstyle was quite similar to this game it ended to early for me to get anything really.I'm about halfway through that game, and only USEC seemed to have him.
Though I notice that he once again he wasn't the first to vote against Jet who was lynched on day one.
I'm reading that game too. Just give me a few hours from now to take care of some errands and read it fully.He posted that over 60 hours ago. Surely you have something by now, Azure? If your wall of text isn't done yet, please post what you have so far so we at least have something to talk about.
Afair, Azure had claimed to be frustrated from screwed wall-o-text.
We don't have the luxury of having time to slack, so fight your frustration, Azure, fight it!
i vote for UsecThis is golden. You could make a joke book out of this guy. He's like the Realmfighter of mafia.
When you make yourself suspicious and then want to be voted for.... i will vote for you
as somewhere i red that people who make themselves suspicious in order to make confusion, you just vote for them.
(I red that somewhere in wizard duel 4)
Azure Sepulchre is lost and presumed dead, so we must ask for another replacement.
Flintus:
Well, he was the 4th vote on Jet, but that's all really have on him at this point. I can't really blame him for bandwagoning Jet. I mean it, it was JET, man.
Native:
Same thing with bandwagoning Jet. Same reason it doesn't really matter. I might be blind, but I don't see much at this point. We'll see.
Looking at Azure's points in your defense, and rereading my theory, you do seem much less scummy to me at this point. Seeing as you seem to agree with Azure, who would you suggest as my scumbuddy? Is it, as your list suggests, Native? What exactly makes him look suspicious at this point?
Azure:
Well, you could be scum trying to attack me, and thus win the game, but that is seriously weak argument at this point. You are almost assuredly town. And your argument against is seriously good. Unfortunately, it's wrong. If you lynch me, then it's game over. But I won't count on that to convince you of anything, like Jet did. Well, that was shorter than expected. Time for my response to your post, Azure.
Fair point. But I'm confused as to how it kept getting pointed out to me. Could you point me to exactly where it was repeated? I only saw it the once.
Oh, I think I found it. It was me mentioning 'maybe they lynched him because ...', right? It does look like distancing. I wasn't intending to 'WIFOM the hell out of it', I was merely listing off all the possibilities that popped into my head. The more we have to think on, the better. We can dismiss those if you so wish, and come up with a new theory, which I think you did quite well.
I'm glad we ended up lynching Jet instead. He would have screwed us over in LYLO.
Since you're suggesting I'm scum, are you saying I'm a short-sighted moron? Is that compatible with you saying what I'm doing is exactly what you would do? Because then you would be calling yourself a short-sighted moron.
I'm not trying to force anything anywhere. See above on dropping my attack on Murphy. I'm willing to work together with everyone else to find the scum. Though I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to redeem myself in your eyes, Azure. Is there? And why would posting it first be before you could ''get your bearings"? You can think all you like. It's not like the day ends anytime soon.
Good metaphor though.
My problem with Flintus is two-fold: he fits into my theory of 'one active scum, one lurker scum' since I don't really consider Murphy scum (at the time of writing - I still haven't caught up on the past few pages properly, just skimmed most of it) and, if he were townie, then he comes across as unusually cautious to the idea of proper scumhunting - of particular note being a conversation he had a while ago with Spade, where he pressed him briefly, obtained a pithy reply in turn and then promptly dropped the line of questioning. I also find it interesting that the most information we've really obtained on him all game has only been given to us now, when Kamina placed a FoS on him. Remarkable.Well if you wanted information you only needed to ask.
I would not FoS anyone on the basis on placing their vote on Jet, to please stop presuming it's my only reason. Even if ragnarok did cite IRL reasons for his absence, there is every possibility that he outright lied to us to maintain his 'lurker' position... although, personally, I found Spade to be the more obvious lurker of the two, hence my suspicion of you Kamina.And using that Spade conversation I got distracted by Ottofar and forgot about him. My bad but there you go. I didn't actually have suspicion of Spade back then I just wanted to see what he thought, looking back now though I am torn between him and ragnarok as the lurker scum.
You're still not saying not saying anything useful, ragnarok. Do you actually have something good to say or maybe even a question?specifically only targeting lurkers is a pretty newbie scum-tell
Flintus - He's on the other end of the spectrum, for the moment. He caught on to the basis of my trap against Otto before I'd even posted it, and was the first person to vote for him; absolving him instantly of any 'bandwagoning' claim - and didn't try to back off onto Elegy when things clearly went south for Otto. However - even if I don't believe this myself - I should still point out that, if Otto does actually flip town, then you should consider my position on Flintus reversed assuming I'm dead. Make of that what you will.
I find it extremely interesting that even though Azure had read Dakarian's guide to scumhunting, he still found the agressiveness of Ottofar sure evidence of him being scum. Looking back after some paranormal, I would have found it a bit of a towntell.
No scum would do something like that. It looks to me like he may have been trying to pull something similar to a lynching of Sir Bayer in that game. Looking back to that point in the thread has me facepalming.
And, funny enough, even though he had played with Jet before, Azure never gave any thought to whether Jet was being stupidtown or stupidscum.
Actually, since several players of the last Beginner game are now in this one, I'd recommend that some of you read over the last game - it isn't all that long, having died not long after the start of day 2 - if you'd like to use some meta arguments. :P At the very least, it'll show you why Otto's proposed method of play isn't the only kind nor necessarily the best, and could give you an idea of how Jet plays before he posts.
He just seems to have too much experience, and doesn't seem to be using it, instead deciding to utilize the fact that us beginners will lynch whoever looks suspicious, instead of lynching who looks like scum.
Azure and Flintus:
As I've mentioned, there is a solid towntell from Kamina. Do you consider it weak?
Agree with 1st paragraph. He hasn't really started anything, just backed stuff up. Please provide examples if you disagree, Azure.
Azure Could I ask what it is you find more suspicious about Spade than Ragnarok considering they are both still in this game technically.
You basically told the others that you would suspect me if Otto flipped town, was that only if you died? Because if not you seem to completely forgot about it.
...in that case, I suppose Flintus and Native could be a strong scum team, but I'm still not entirely convinced - you could just be misled town, after all, Murphy. Flintus was my second scum vote anyway - after Kamina - so I'd have no problems with making him my final vote. Unvote, Vote Flintus.
Unless you'd rather use Kamina's worthless meta argument against me? You're welcome to try.
Look at it this way; if it hadn't been for me, do you really think Otto would have been lynched? Not the best claim to fame, admittedly, but as far as I can see, it's the truth. Just because I wasn't the first vote doesn't mean it wasn't my fault - but neither is it entirely my fault, either. You also thought he was scum, Kamina, when you voted for him. Or have you decided to conveniently forget this fact?
Azure Could I ask what it is you find more suspicious about Spade than Ragnarok considering they are both still in this game technically.It was the fact that you could always notice him hanging around - he didn't say much, but he was usually there. He's scattered a number of pithy remarks over the course of the thread, whereas ragnarok was basically absent for near enough everything. On the other hand, I think Spade was also in the last BM... did he play like this in it? I can't remember, and I have to go now so I can't really check. Library's closing. >.>
You basically told the others that you would suspect me if Otto flipped town, was that only if you died? Because if not you seem to completely forgot about it.
Nope; clean forgot about it, as I didn't expect Otto to show up as town and then I became more invested in my argument with Mindmaker. I suppose you could say I'm making up for lost time now, huh?So wait I forget to follow up on what was originally a meaningless question to get Spade active and that makes me scum and yet you throw out some WIFOM (I am fairly certain it is, you even went as far as saying "Make of that what you will".) saying that you will accuse me with a fair degree of certainty and prepare your lynch for day two and that's okay cause you forgot? This is all surprisingly sloppy Azure.
Okay, well, I don't have much to contribute, it seems like Azure's handling all of that. D:
We need to start applying a little more pressure before the day ends, so Flintus, prove to us that you're not scum. You have a fairly strong argument against you and Azure's on your ass. Why should the rest of us ignore this?
Bwahaha I just realised after not ever paying attention to me Native is suddenly suspicious of me after a post by Azure. Is this all another trap laid out by you azure ;D
That was completely tongue in cheek no need to get upset.Bwahaha I just realised after not ever paying attention to me Native is suddenly suspicious of me after a post by Azure. Is this all another trap laid out by you azure ;DGood God, man; I lay out one gambit at the start of the game that didn't even work, and suddenly I'm Keyser fucking Soze. >.>
WRONG. Scum wants to avoid looking suspect. Town wants to find scum, even if it gets them lynched.That was completely tongue in cheek no need to get upset.Bwahaha I just realised after not ever paying attention to me Native is suddenly suspicious of me after a post by Azure. Is this all another trap laid out by you azure ;DGood God, man; I lay out one gambit at the start of the game that didn't even work, and suddenly I'm Keyser fucking Soze. >.>
Please when you get back on a computer just tell me why you are voting me and actually read through my posts and explain yourself. The more you post on this day the more you are seeming supect, which I assume if you are town you would want to avoid.
...If a townie gets lynched now we lose KaminaI meant in general. Townies shouldn't worry too much about looking good. They should scumhunt.
That was completely tongue in cheek no need to get upset.
Please when you get back on a computer just tell me why you are voting me and actually read through my posts and explain yourself. The more you post on this day the more you are seeming supect, which I assume if you are town you would want to avoid.
Your going to cost town the game by voting for me for no reason that I can see apart from ONE conversation with Spade on day freaking one.
Even if you are town and therefore aren't 100% sure of my status don't you see that as a bit of a massive risk considering there are others you suspect above me?
I think your trying to defend yourself in saying that you did not just wait for other people to vote and then follow them and this statement does not do that at all.
So wait I forget to follow up on what was originally a meaningless question to get Spade active and that makes me scum and yet you throw out some WIFOM (I am fairly certain it is, you even went as far as saying "Make of that what you will".) saying that you will accuse me with a fair degree of certainty and prepare your lynch for day two and that's okay cause you forgot? This is all surprisingly sloppy Azure.
Well your lack of wink made things confusing for me ;)That was completely tongue in cheek no need to get upset.
Pahaha! XD I'm not so daft as to be able to miss the winking smiley at the end of your post. Just because I didn't explicitly state it doesn't mean I wasn't being wry. Well, for the first line I was just fucking around; the rest I meant. Particularly concerning the possibility of lurker scum winning the game. That just ain't right.
We should've just lynched one of 'em back in day 1, saved ourselves the bother of today. -_-
Ugh... stop asking me that when I've already answered it. I'll say why one more time. Read it.Sorry for asking so often but I assumed you had a reason other than not suspecting other people. It's not easy to defend myself just based on your process of elimination
I believe the scum to be one part lurker, one part active player. Murphy, I no longer consider scum. Between Kamina and Native, I'm still unsure - I'm leaning more heavily in Kamina's direction at the moment, but still unsure. However, you're the only active player left. I'm obviously not gonna vote myself, I've already said I don't suspect Murphy, I'm about 55-45 between Kamina and Native. That just leaves you.
Your going to cost town the game by voting for me for no reason that I can see apart from ONE conversation with Spade on day freaking one.
I love this argument. It sounds so much like a threat from scum. Kamina's used it, too, I believe. Heh.
Even if you are town and therefore aren't 100% sure of my status don't you see that as a bit of a massive risk considering there are others you suspect above me?
Christ, man; frankly speaking, this game is wearing me out. I've put more effort and time into this than I have into my god damn university work. Win or lose, I want it to end before I lose interest. A big part of what's holding me here is a simple obligation to keep playing, but even that won't last forever. You and Kamina are the best I have to go with for today - you, in particular - so I'm gonna settle for it instead of continuing to second-guess myself until I end up voting for myself or Toaster or something. If you wanna keep on arguing your cause, do it to the other two townies. Perhaps you can spin it all into a lynch on me before the end; who knows? I just hope you can do it before I simply stop caring.
I think your trying to defend yourself in saying that you did not just wait for other people to vote and then follow them and this statement does not do that at all.
The hell do you want from me? How does not being the first vote on anyone dead make me undeniable scum, anyway? What am I supposed to be defending myself against? Where are you even trying to go with this line of questioning? Have you even thought that far ahead? Or are you just firing out questions with no real bearing on much of anything and hoping for a scumslip to pounce on?Well I originally said I didn't really see it as a massive tell or anything but you defended yourself and I was just pointing out your defense really didn't prove anything.
So wait I forget to follow up on what was originally a meaningless question to get Spade active and that makes me scum and yet you throw out some WIFOM (I am fairly certain it is, you even went as far as saying "Make of that what you will".) saying that you will accuse me with a fair degree of certainty and prepare your lynch for day two and that's okay cause you forgot? This is all surprisingly sloppy Azure.
Eh, I was being rhetorical in a whimsical way. I had already stated what I meant, and simply added the 'make of that what you will' as a bit of flavour. I find it difficult to believe you didn't figure that out, so I must presume you're being obtuse on purpose. Besides, Jet was a smarter lynch than you for day 2 anyway, considering at the time there was still the acute possibility of him being scum. Either of the lurkers would have been even better - before they were replaced, of course - but... eh. Things can change in Mafia. Even if I hadn't forgotten, I'd have ended up voting either Murphy or Jet by the end of day 2 anyway, thanks to Kamina's fairly sensible theory.
Also, I do not possess a perfect memory. I do forget things; sometimes I even do stupid things. Even more rarely, I will do clever things. Which leaves me feeling rather bemused, considering several of you appear to be lending my opinion undue weight. Very, very peculiar...Yet when I do the same thing you base your entire suspicion of me around it. I agree that we are not looking at you from a good perspective as anything that may be a slip I kinow at least I am waving it off as "Ah bugger it Azure is too good to make a mistake like that."
Hi, my students. This week we will do lab 6 problem 2 and problem 3, instead of 6.1. Due to my error, the deadline for this week's prelab postponed to tomorrow 6:00 pm. Sorry about that.IT WAS DUE AT 1:00 ANYWAY THAT DOESN'T HELP I HAVE SOMETHING FROM 2:30-5:00 OFF CAMPUS. THANKS A LOT!
Which leaves me feeling rather bemused, considering several of you appear to be lending my opinion undue weight. Very, very peculiar...
QuoteYour going to cost town the game by voting for me for no reason that I can see apart from ONE conversation with Spade on day freaking one.I love this argument. It sounds so much like a threat from scum. Kamina's used it, too, I believe. Heh.
until I end up voting for myself or Toaster or something.
I'd have ended up voting either Murphy or Jet by the end of day 2 anyway, thanks to Kamina's fairly sensible theory.
I suppose it is good to stick with your vote rather than doing a whole lot and getting nowhere but your case against me isn't that strong and as stated you barely care anymore which is why it is annoying that everyone will still hang of your every word >_>.
QuoteEh, I was being rhetorical in a whimsical way. I had already stated what I meant, and simply added the 'make of that what you will' as a bit of flavour. I find it difficult to believe you didn't figure that out, so I must presume you're being obtuse on purpose. Besides, Jet was a smarter lynch than you for day 2 anyway, considering at the time there was still the acute possibility of him being scum. Either of the lurkers would have been even better - before they were replaced, of course - but... eh. Things can change in Mafia. Even if I hadn't forgotten, I'd have ended up voting either Murphy or Jet by the end of day 2 anyway, thanks to Kamina's fairly sensible theory.
I do not know what you are thinking and neither does everyone else so saying something like that is a massive WIFOM and if it isn't a scum-tell then at the very least it wasn't helpful to town. This theory would make alot of sense as you immediately jumped on two other targets when Kamina arrived and alot of suspicion was thrown on them, of course I doubt you would make such an obvious slip as you seem far better than that. But if it was a slip it was about the only one.
Unvote
Okay, well, I don't have much to contribute, it seems like Azure's handling all of that. D:
We need to start applying a little more pressure before the day ends, so Flintus, prove to us that you're not scum. You have a fairly strong argument against you and Azure's on your ass. Why should the rest of us ignore this?
QuoteQuoteYour going to cost town the game by voting for me for no reason that I can see apart from ONE conversation with Spade on day freaking one.I love this argument. It sounds so much like a threat from scum. Kamina's used it, too, I believe. Heh.
Isn't that the same argument Jet tried to use? It got people to vote for him. Made him sound like scum by saying it. I'm hoping you're not as terrible a townie as he was by using the same defense and, given that, it could be you're trying to sound like Jet to make us hesitant to vote for you which wouldn't be an implausible move.
To refresh my memory, what wrote Murphy out of the picture on this day? I haven't seen much activity from him, so he either has nothing to contribute or is trying to lie low to avoid attention that could potentially threaten him should he be scum.
It is interesting that Mindmaker voted Azure and immediately after that Vector congratulated the town on that the game is looking better. Or was it because the IC, too, thought me and Jet scum?
I may still change my mind, maybe to Azure-Native being the scumteam. But I won't do so unless there's a solid Flintus towntell.
Looking for more towntells, I've re-read the topic and it turns out that NKing Kamina didn't really match what a scum-Azure would or should do in my opinion, seeing as during day one Kamina was his next FoS. And he would not kill Mindmaker night two because this left him with no one to blame again.
What I've read is that mafia players are better off in the middle - not being too suspicious, to avoid lynch, and not being too clean, to avoid questions like "why are you not being nkd".
Ragnarok does a good job at looking like an uncaring townie - not too suspicious, but not clean either (remember him creating a bandwagon right in the beginning?)
Flintus gives a FoS to Ragnarok. Distancing.
Also does a good job in starting the whole Ottofar thing.
How does going for mind seem suspicious?
Day two:
Ragnarok goes lurking completely. No problem since there's still the second scum to make decisions during the night.
And Flintus goes "scumhunting" on Mindmaker.
Wow you backed right off, well you said you'd provide us with the answer why later so that's cool.
I have to rethink everything as while I don't think Azure is quite the mafia god we have made him out to be anymore I still don't think he is scum. Though that could change after looking back.
Sorry for asking so often but I assumed you had a reason other than not suspecting other people. It's not easy to defend myself just based on your process of elimination
I guess it could sound like that but after playing for all this time I'd really rather not lose without getting a single scum.
You have been very active and I am grateful for that (1) but here you are basically saying you have almost given up and don't really care about the game anymore (2). I suppose it is good to stick with your vote rather than doing a whole lot and getting nowhere but your case against me isn't that strong (3) and as stated you barely care anymore which is why it is annoying that everyone will still hang of your every word >_> (4).
Well I originally said I didn't really see it as a massive tell or anything but you defended yourself and I was just pointing out your defense really didn't prove anything.
How the hell am I supposed to know what your thinking? Saying something like that and then not following up on it? For all I know your lying now and your original plan was to wait for someone to take your bait so that you could follow up on them and since no-one did you saw Mind as another easy target instead.
And don't say that it is not possible because remember I do not know what you are thinking and neither does everyone else so saying something like that is a massive WIFOM and if it isn't a scum-tell then at the very least it wasn't helpful to town. This theory would make alot of sense as you immediately jumped on two other targets when Kamina arrived and alot of suspicion was thrown on them, of course I doubt you would make such an obvious slip as you seem far better than that. But if it was a slip it was about the only one.
Yet when I do the same thing you base your entire suspicion of me around it.
I agree that we are not looking at you from a good perspective as anything that may be a slip I kinow at least I am waving it off as "Ah bugger it Azure is too good to make a mistake like that."
Also I agree that it is highly unlikely that both mafia players are lurkers as this is a beginner game and I assume their IC would try to keep them active so I will go ahead and give Bayer some credit and say he'd be a good enough IC to keep one of them active. Cause if he encouraged them both to lurk then that is a massive dick-move.
Also Murphy has quietened down a bit now that nobody is focusing on him.
You said this so please explain why you think I might be scum. If you don't have a reason I can only assume you were planning to jump on Azure's vote.
Jet was definetely the worst town player ever but if we remember correctly he was correct in saying that voting for him would hurt the town so you can't really hold it against him. The reasons everybody suspected Jet were the blatant lies and constantly changing opinions of his.
I am fairly certain that it is because most of Kamina's theory revolved around a Jet/Murphy team and that was basically the basis of the argument. So naturally when Jet flipped town the argument went away.
Ragnarok does a good job at looking like an uncaring townie - not too suspicious, but not clean either (remember him creating a bandwagon right in the beginning?)
Also, nice defense post, Native. Very subtle.
Native
Same goes for you I think.
I don't like this process of elimination of yours, Azure. The only way it works is if you can be sure someone is town.Sorry for asking so often but I assumed you had a reason other than not suspecting other people. It's not easy to defend myself just based on your process of elimination
The process of elimination can work quite well, and good scum have a knack for having an explanation for everything. It's nice to sometimes have an argument that can't be defeated by twisting meanings or outright lying.
That is a difference in experience. Being dead, I thought about many things. I got better. Now I'm even better, mostly from my experience in Paranormal. When I look that far back in the thread, I end up FACEPALMING.Wow you backed right off, well you said you'd provide us with the answer why later so that's cool.
My explanation is fairly simple; I just don't trust Kamina enough. Or anyone other than Murphy at the moment, really, and even him only a little more than the rest of you. Reading back through the thread, I can't get over how differently Kamina appears to have behaved when you compare day 1 to day 2. As such, since it seems this game is going to go into a two-way tie before the end, I don't want to give him the final vote.
...hrm. I want my vote on Native. I apologise, Native, but as Murphy is the closest I can see to being fellow town, I can't split my vote from his if I want any chance to win. I still encourage you to switch to either Flintus or Kamina, Murphy, but if you're set on Native then I have little choice in the matter.I don't like this. I understand your argument, but it seems entirely too possible that you are scum, and decided to vote a townie after Murphy did and then used this argument to force a lynch of a townie. We can't disagree because then you would accuse us of being scum who just want to pull off aforementioned gambit.
Last post I can make before day ends. If I'm wrong, sorry, guys.And this seals the deal. If we don't vote who we want him to vote, WE LOSE THE GAME. You may actually need to go to bed, but this still doesn't sit right with me.
After all, if he and his scumbuddy were online at the time and he placed his final vote on a townie, they could both shorten and - assuming none of us were online at the time to prevent this - Toaster would have no choice but to bring on the night instantly rather than at the allotted time.You found out our little plan! Too bad it didn't matter!
If - heaven forbid - the scum does turn out to be the two lurkers, I'm gonna be pretty pissed off... -_-Feeling pissed, Azure?
The shorten was irrelevant, since it was day end anyway.I figured if it might shorten it a few minutes, it was worth it. Why not?
I am impressed that scum managed to block the only town power role night 1- not that he protected the right person, but still impressive.
The shorten was irrelevant, since it was day end anyway.
I am impressed that scum managed to block the only town power role night 1- not that he protected the right person, but still impressive.
Yep, we made sure to block his role every night.The shorten was irrelevant, since it was day end anyway.
I am impressed that scum managed to block the only town power role night 1- not that he protected the right person, but still impressive.
Just a question... did he lose his protection ability as a result?
I do have a question for you, Vector- is it traditional to notify the targets of a block that they were blocked if they don't have a night action? I was asked that, and I went with yes, but I wasn't sure of the usual procedure of that.
Also, KaminaSquirtle, I hope to face you in the next bastard anyone runs >:DI look forward to it.
Vector: I didn't see any way flavorwise for a block action to not be obvious to the blockee- especially if it was a cop instead of a doctor. I was not planning to let anyone know they were protected. It'll be something to think about for next game.
Well, I hope everyone learned a valuable lesson here.
Oh, and I enjoyed the flavor, Toaster, especially the end of game stuff.
It feels so good to have your actions carried out in story form.
Burn, you fools, burn!
Hahahahahahahaha!
Though uh town IC's shouldn't you guys be like evaluating and telling us what to do next time ect?
Though uh town IC's shouldn't you guys be like evaluating and telling us what to do next time ect?
Too bad Vector has been busy.
I had a lot of additional questions to ask.
Ask away. I can be here for a little while longer.
Well I meant I had them back then, when I was in the game.
Most of them have been answered, as soon as the game ended.
Well I meant I had them back then, when I was in the game.
Most of them have been answered, as soon as the game ended.
Bah, humbug... I'm sorry about that, then, as it was completely my fault that they didn't get answered. My apologies.
I did my best though (except at the beginning and shortly before I died).
I did my best though (except at the beginning and shortly before I died).
Good! You really did improve throughout the course of the game, by the way. I was quite pleased to see your style evolve =)
Post
Extra credit to Mindmaker, who sent me PMs and asked me specific questions--I'm still sorry I never got around to that second one, because I was really glad to see you sending them.
I had no idea you were taking questions, that would have been nice to know. -_-
Advice.Yeah, I know, I sucked pretty bad. Hopefully some more non beginner games should help with that. I don't know...this game felt different than say paranormal or sorcerer's apprentice. Hopefully I'll learn more from seeing the better players play.
Oh, and KaminaSquirtle: tone down the attitude. It may have won the game for you right now, but it will hold you back significantly very, very soon. The other thing it will do is give you victories that no one will celebrate with you.Yeah, you're right. I guess I was just really relived to see that we won, I was really worried there. But I see what you mean. I'm glad this game is over, so I can focus on others. I want to start fresh.
As for the quality of the game, it seemed like it was too easy of a victory. Yes, I was terrified of being lynched at the end, but we were allowed to squirm out of it. I messed up a few times with my posts, leaving a tell here and there, but no one caught on because the focus was (thankfully) on someone else. I'm pretty sure Kamina and I both would have been torn apart by day 3, or maybe even day 2 in any other game than a beginner's.I know I should have been completely torn into. I don't even want to know what the better players would do to my beginning of Day 3 post. It just doesn't feel like a real victory to me, we got off on a cheap trick.
But, overall a good game and a good learning experience.
Extra credit to Mindmaker, who sent me PMs and asked me specific questions--I'm still sorry I never got around to that second one, because I was really glad to see you sending them.
Are you open for questions any time or just for beginner's games?
Though uh town IC's shouldn't you guys be like evaluating and telling us what to do next time ect?
I'm going to be rude here, for a moment. Please forgive me.
I'm glad to be your IC but uh Flintus10 shouldn't you be like asking that with a more polite turn of phrase or something ect?
[/bitch]
Yeah I mean two scum lurkers who were replaced kinda blows, I hope Bayer at least tried to keep Ragnarok and Spade in the game.
Still I enjoyed it and I will try to be more decisive next time I think I let Ragnarok obvious active lurking go too easy. Though uh town IC's shouldn't you guys be like evaluating and telling us what to do next time ect?
This is the rudest you get, Vector?
Pandarsenic slams keyboards at me for minor screw-ups in games of League of Legends.
Pandarsenic slams keyboards at me for minor screw-ups in games of League of Legends.
That's like grandma rude.This is the rudest you get, Vector?
Pandarsenic slams keyboards at me for minor screw-ups in games of League of Legends.
Well, uh... most of the time... >_>
You're playing on the american servers, right?