Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: GhostDwemer on November 27, 2010, 03:11:43 pm
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We need a Dwarven Institute of Science.
I often find myself making quick little forts to test some theory I have, because I don't want to mess up my main fort. What if we played a succession game where we posed questions and then someone volunteered to download the fort and test out the theory? It would become a giant Dwarven Institute of Science! We would need a boringly safe and secure fort, but one with ready access to goblin test subjects, so that means a TON of cage traps as the main defense. We would need some cave in traps surrounded by cages as well, to deal with beasts.
Each experiment should be isolated as much as possible from the main fort. Ideally, one of the possible outcomes of each experiment should be a dead something. For instance, I want to know if water filtered through a grate will spread mud. I don't think it will. At the DIS, rather than simply filtering water through a grate and dumping it in a pit, we would lock a dwarf in a room with filtered water, a bucket, and a pit. If he can make a farm, we know that filtered water spreads mud. If he can't build a farm and dies of starvation, we know it doesn't. How long will it take dwarfs with various personality traits to go crazy in various circumstances? Will a dwarf eat his own pet if he gets hungry enough? What kills goblins faster, magma, or magma mist? Does adamantine protect from magma longer than steel? How quickly will a well in a busy meeting hall spread deadly contagion? How often can an elite goblin bowman shoot through fortifications ten tiles away? From six? From two? Will an elite goblin bowman on a rope shoot at a titan? What if he's locked in a watchtower? These are important questions, and gentledwarfs, we need answers!
The DIS would also serve as a demonstrator for various dwarven technologies, like reactors, repeaters, kitten operated spike traps, catapult stone movers, drop towers, and of course the ultimate goal of the institute will be to build a flying machine. I think we just need to build it entirely out of aluminum. Surely, that will be light enough to fly!
We could publish a thread of our questions and findings, call it "Ask Doctor Dwarf." Anyone up for this?
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Sure, put the fort on an island, that way nothing can get to it.
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Sure, put the fort on an island, that way nothing can get to it.
Right, I thought of that, but where would we get test subjects? I mean, there is only so much you can test on dwarfs alone. How do you pit a dwarf off a drop tower to find the optimal height for killing steel clad enemies without stripping them first?
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Change the raws to make children and babies grow up immediately and make it where they breed like cats, or faster. Then take away their emotions, so they don't get tied to the subjects.
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Changed the title, damn my fumble fingers. :/
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if you're planning on doing this, wait until a later stable version
I expect .19 will come out soon fixing most of the .18 problems
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if you're planning on doing this, wait until a later stable version
I expect .19 will come out soon fixing most of the .18 problems
I haven't noticed any problems in 31.18. What do you mean? Looking on another thread, I see that some people appear to be having crashes. I'm not. Are there other problems with 31.18?
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Change the raws to make children and babies grow up immediately and make it where they breed like cats, or faster. Then take away their emotions, so they don't get tied to the subjects.
Messing with the raws to make things easier also messes up the SCIENCE! And what's the point of making things easier? This is supposed to be a dwarven institute. Things should go horribly, horribly wrong as often as possible.
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if you're planning on doing this, wait until a later stable version
I expect .19 will come out soon fixing most of the .18 problems
I haven't noticed any problems in 31.18. What do you mean? Looking on another thread, I see that some people appear to be having crashes. I'm not. Are there other problems with 31.18?
Um. Switching back to DF from this very post, it was locked up tighter than a nun's, uh, very precious things she wants to keep safe like in a safe deposit box or something. So, maybe you have something there.
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I like this.
Always wanted to know which height is fatal to be dropped from...
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!!*Dwarven Institute of !!Science!!*!!
Now that is an idea I like. Let's test as many things as we can! And, by the way, we can re-establish the institute in every new version (or most of them anyway) to test out the new bugs.
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!!*Dwarven Institute of !!Science!!*!!
Now that is an idea I like. Let's test as many things as we can! And, by the way, we can re-establish the institute in every new version (or most of them anyway) to test out the new bugs.
This is a masterful !!DWARVEN INSTITUTE!!. It menaces with spikes of !!SCIENCE!!
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I like it! I know it would be better to try it with a stabler version, but right now it's only a DSI, and we want a =DSI=... I'd put in the masterwork sign but I don't know how.
Getting some basic stuff out of the way, and each release we can test some stuff, if a new update has something big in it, a new material, a new profession etc. then we can try it ASAP.
We could do with setting a good world, without any embarktions. Try and keep it average [IE not too young, not too old etc] and then find some good stops, embark, save, and then upload them to here. That way people can start from scratch for their own things. And you could do this with basic forts with all the basic stuff like a few traps, rooms and farms.
I like it, let's get this thing on the go!
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ooo, I have an experiment to request!
Slade bins. You would probably need to hack the game to be able to make them. But if you do, how effective would they be when abandoning a fort, considering slade is the heaviest metal in the game? Would your items stored inside fly everywhere?
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I like it! I know it would be better to try it with a stabler version, but right now it's only a DSI, and we want a =DSI=... I'd put in the masterwork sign but I don't know how.
alt-code 15: ☼
you're welcome :D
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I'm in.
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I like it! I know it would be better to try it with a stabler version, but right now it's only a DSI, and we want a =DSI=... I'd put in the masterwork sign but I don't know how.
alt-code 15: ☼
you're welcome :D
Thank you very much, I'm not entirely sober right now so I doubt I will remember in the morning, but thank you nontheless!
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NOBODY PEER REVIEWS A DWARF.
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Fine. We'll label it "further evidence."
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what would be the perfect environment, then?
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Well, I guess we would need a sedimentary flux layer. Trees. Flowing water. A small amount of igneous extrusive biome present to give a better chance of a magma tube. All civs present, because we may want to know, oh I don't know, which race burns up in magma quicker? I say, Elves because they are skinny. More surface area. Less fat to boil away first. Maybe a temperate zone so we can test freezy things in the winter. Preferably not a 257x257 world, quicker download, you know, but I've played around with small and smaller sizes and it's hard to find all the right stuff. The DIS should be self sufficient, I mean, we can't very well carry on SCIENCE if we have to import all our flux and wood and such.
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The Institute, if I'm reading this correctly:
We could do with setting a good world, without any embarktions. Try and keep it average [IE not too young, not too old etc] and then find some good stops, embark, save, and then upload them to here. That way people can start from scratch for their own things. And you could do this with basic forts with all the basic stuff like a few traps, rooms and farms.
would exist in the form of several fortresses in separate iterations of the world, in different biomes/surroundings, each with different areas of study, and land that fits that. For instance, a fort devoted to magma experiments would probably prefer a shallower map, or one with a volcano or first-cavern magma pool. A fort testing reactor designs would make the most sense on the oceanfront, or an area with a large river, for maximum water flow. A fort dedicated to weaponizing undead in an evil biome (will probably need multiple tries to find one with undead instead of ogres, etc.), while one for creature farming would want easy access to an elven civ.
I believe the Institute would be best founded in a large world, as the greater variety of biomes would be worth the larger download.
EDIT: If this is the case, would whoever creates the world please mod dwarves to be able to produce everything? I have some armor setups vs. magma that I would like to test, including the effects of quality on survival.
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I think it would be interesting to see how the same fort set up would fare in different environments.
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This looks interesting. I pledge to be a dutiful member of !!Science!!
Btw, I think I found a pretty nice embark site. Small world, un-modded, part wilderness, part calm, two rivers running through the map, a magma pipe 10 z-levels down, a partial aquifer according to the finder, sand, flux (marble) at layers 55-48 (ground is layer 100), all four civs in contact, hostile with goblins and elves, temperate shrubland, lots of iron ore. Should I upload it?
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Gentledwarfs! I have our first report on !!SCIENCE!! We have done actual science! I took the liberty of sending a seven peasant crew to a jungle river to test my theory that dwarfs with no armor and weapons will be non-threatening to alligators and can befriend them, perhaps for riding! My theory has been disproved, but this is still !!SCIENCE!! And this is just the beginning!
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This looks interesting. I pledge to be a dutiful member of !!Science!!
Btw, I think I found a pretty nice embark site. Small world, un-modded, part wilderness, part calm, two rivers running through the map, a magma pipe 10 z-levels down, a partial aquifer according to the finder, sand, flux (marble) at layers 55-48 (ground is layer 100), all four civs in contact, hostile with goblins and elves, temperate shrubland, lots of iron ore. Should I upload it?
if a world is going to have multiple fortresses, we should make sure it contains everything we need for testing. There may be some components missing in a small world.
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Well, are we going to have one large world with multiple forts? I think several small ones many be better for most people, if the just want to test one specific thing, the just need the files for that one test zone, and not all the others. Besides, one world with the perfect setup for a certain experiment could be uncommon to very rare, depending on the test and parameter and such. A world with several perfect test zones would be even harder. But, what ever works, works, I guess.
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Well, are we going to have one large world with multiple forts? I think several small ones many be better for most people, if the just want to test one specific thing, the just need the files for that one test zone, and not all the others. Besides, one world with the perfect setup for a certain experiment could be uncommon to very rare, depending on the test and parameter and such. A world with several perfect test zones would be even harder. But, what ever works, works, I guess.
I agree. Also, one giant fort capable of testing most things would be murder to the FPS of most machines.
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Why not make a set of save files on different maps? If we did it on one file, for example, it would be difficult to study dwarven behavior over extended periods. It would also be good for people whose computers couldn't handle the load and allow for parallel studies in different topics.
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so what would the different categories for fortresses be?
dwarven aeronautics department:
falling and flying
dwarven aquatics department:
swimming, drowning, water activities
dwarven magma department:
magma and magma accessories. Would also include smithing and metalcrafting.
dwarven battle department:
armor/weapons of every kind. Opponents of all shades caged and ready to be tested on.
dwarven agriculture department:
farming/hunting/fishery/kitchen/brewing
dwarven defense and traps department:
several entrances to the fort, stocked with mechanisms. Each entrance is lined with trap combinations and such for experimentation.
dwarven AI department:
uh... I don't really know what you would put in here. I guess fill a room with socks and set up an obstacle course to get to it?
what else can you think of?
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Best make it simple:
Water
Magma
AI
Earth
AI and Earth could easily be handled by one facility, and all facilities should have at the very least similar features, IE a river, a volcano, an aquifier and plenty of Z levels.
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Dwarven biology - taming/breeding and best methods thereof.
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Breeding would probably fall under the header of AI, but it's not a bad idea for when we get down to the !!Science!! bit.
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Best make it simple:
Water
Magma
AI
Earth
AI and Earth could easily be handled by one facility, and all facilities should have at the very least similar features, IE a river, a volcano, an aquifier and plenty of Z levels.
that would be a little unevenly split
if we're sticking with four forts, I would do
water and magma
armors/weapons, metals and battle
AI
general production (farming, stone tests, trading, ect.)
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Fair enough, that sounds reasonable.
Would Cave-Ins be headed under AI then?
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I think they'd be under battle.
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I would like to offer my services as a !!SCIENTIST!!.
I have many theories involving gravity and general physics to be tested. And possibly wagons.
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Stationary or mobile? Moving wagons have been temporarily removed from the game, leaving the stationary and pretty much understood wagons you embark with. At best you could study weather cave ins effect it's structure from above or below, but that's the gist of it.
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As for me we could do it with 3 laboratories:
1) Fluid lab (water and magma departments and partially trap department)
2)Goblin lab (battle and traps, possibly goblin research group of AI and aeronautics departments)
3)Agriculture lab (plus non-hostile AI group and aeronautics)
You see, one lab can not always encompass one department and vice versa.
However ISGC's suggestion would let more experiments be carried out simultaneously. And science isn't quick thing.
Anyways when you'll be creating fortresses don't you dare to use random name unless it hilariously represents the essence of laboratory. :D
Edit: Oh, I've completely forgot to suggest thermodynamics department divided into hight and low temperatures groups.
And the last one shouldn't we move to community games board once we've organized?
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Simple - create your own branches of the DIS (by the way, meaningful acronym here).
1. Set your eyes upon an experiment or a branch of knowledge.
2. Find the perfect spot on the perfect world.
3. Build the fort.
4. Name it something fancy.
5. Experiment away!
Also, upload the save of the embark/the fort ready for experimentation! And let us do !!SCIENCE!!
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Simple - create your own branches of the DIS (by the way, meaningful acronym here).
1. Set your eyes upon an experiment or a branch of knowledge.
2. Find the perfect spot on the perfect world.
3. Build the fort.
4. Name it something fancy.
5. Experiment away!
Also, upload the save of the embark/the fort ready for experimentation! And let us do !!SCIENCE!!
The fort should probably be uploaded within a year or two...and unless you are dealing with combat it might be beneficial to turn off invasions. I'm just saying. :P
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Simple - create your own branches of the DIS (by the way, meaningful acronym here).
1. Set your eyes upon an experiment or a branch of knowledge.
2. Find the perfect spot on the perfect world.
3. Build the fort.
4. Name it something fancy.
5. Experiment away!
Also, upload the save of the embark/the fort ready for experimentation! And let us do !!SCIENCE!!
The fort should probably be uploaded within a year or two...and unless you are dealing with combat it might be beneficial to turn off invasions. I'm just saying. :P
That's a given. And I mean, either upload the embark ready for !!SCIENCE!! or an up and running laboratory all set up for an experiment.
Can always just build it on an island if the other requirements are met, too.
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Yeah, this sounds perfect. I have some theories about the effectiveness of certain materials for ballista bolts, but they are highly incomplete as I am lacking a lot of necessary information. Such as:
1.) Does a material's ability to hold an edge affect the bolt's penetrating power?
2.) Do bolts made from heavier materials do more damage?
3.) Does the mass of the material affect how fast the bolt travels? If so, in what ways?
4.) What effects do higher quality components have on the performance of the ballista? Do masterwork ballista components make for a better ballista?
5.) Are certain kinds of wood better for making a ballista? Is an all oak ballista more durable than one made from birch? Does a willow ballista shoot farther than one made of maple?
6.) Does the quality of the ballista bolt affect its performance? Do masterful bolts fly faster or penetrate more effectively?
7). To what extent have the laws of motion been implemented? Does the game simulate the behavior of matter on a quantum level? Does a watched pot really never boil?
8.) Holy crap, how awesome would it be if there were Dwarven Mythbusters?
Y'know, that sort of thing.
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Yeah, this sounds perfect. I have some theories about the effectiveness of certain materials for ballista bolts, but they are highly incomplete as I am lacking a lot of necessary information. Such as:
1.) Does a material's ability to hold an edge affect the bolt's penetrating power?
2.) Do bolts made from heavier materials do more damage?
3.) Does the mass of the material affect how fast the bolt travels? If so, in what ways?
4.) What effects do higher quality components have on the performance of the ballista? Do masterwork ballista components make for a better ballista?
5.) Are certain kinds of wood better for making a ballista? Is an all oak ballista more durable than one made from birch? Does a willow ballista shoot farther than one made of maple?
6.) Does the quality of the ballista bolt affect its performance? Do masterful bolts fly faster or penetrate more effectively?
7). To what extent have the laws of motion been implemented? Does the game simulate the behavior of matter on a quantum level? Does a watched pot really never boil?
8.) Holy crap, how awesome would it be if there were Dwarven Mythbusters?
Y'know, that sort of thing.
9) does passing a wooden bolt through magma lead to !!wooden ballista bolt!! since all bolts have a wooden shaft, could you get !!Steel ballista bolts!!?
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Here's a theory, would water dropped from a great height damage a dwarf or other creature?
For the sake of awesomeness, there has to be a lab on a small, deserted snowy island. There just has to be.
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Here's a theory, would water dropped from a great height damage a dwarf or other creature?
For the sake of awesomeness, there has to be a lab on a small, deserted snowy island. There just has to be.
This but with a volcano too. Something is awesome about a volcano jutting out of the tiny rock outcrop in a frozen sea.