- Select a very, very ugly position on the map... maybe a glacier.
- The first seven dwarves are soldiers, cooks etc. the prison staff, so to say. They get very nice rooms and all comfort that's possible on the map.
- every immigrant has to sleep in the dirt, has work under very difficult conditions, wounded people get simply ignored until they die, they're left to tantrum, get crazy, freeze etc... their living space would strictly be cut of from the prison staff
- now this fortress would have prison labor in form of everything it can produce.. trick is, only things that would be needed would be traded for, every other thing would be given away as free offering to the dwarven king.
- dwarves who get difficult will have "accidents"
am I not thinking this right through or would this actually work?
Some sort of moat or perhaps more elaborate method should be used to control who gets in and ensure that no one gets out, ever. Also I imagine you wouldn't let any of the prisoners around an axe or pick...especially not a pick.
Oh, and of course some of these dwarves would be on death row...
(if you ever actually do this you've so got to post a story of it...)
quote:
Originally posted by Solara:
[QB]Even prisoners don't sleep in the dirt,
Well dwarven prisoners do. :P
I thought about it some more. It would have to be a multi-level fortress underground in a freezing setting. (maybe tundra, are aquifers frozen also when the map is frozen?)
it would have basically one entrance and large halls underground, barracks without any
private room and wells (prisoners don't get booze, efficency would suffer but I don't except prisoners to be very motivated, especially long term prisoners) the staff would live a few levels above in dedicated housing. cooks could maybe prisoners themselves. Marksdwarves could patrol catwalks above the halls (and snipe of f tantruming dwarves)
prisons would serve as "time out" rooms for tantruming dwarves (if they don't get killed beforehand) They would kill other "inmates" but it would fit right in the picture of a brutal dwarven gulag. They could alternatively set up on the outside with chains, to let them freeze to death.
When the staff doesn't have a chance get friends with the prisoners, they shouldn't get unhappy thoughts about their suffering, should they?
For best effect have large window...
quote:
Originally posted by DreaDFanG:
<STRONG>H um, sounds like a forced laybor camp to me.
I dont think you should put dwarves threw this.
T hats just not nice and might be considered evil.
L ets say you did make this whould you feed them properly?
E nough to just barely suvive? or just to get by.
R ight now you must wonder what I meen, well I wonder who's idea this was.
^
|For best effect have large window...</STRONG>
I see what you did there.
- Seiges, Artifacts: Suggested to be off
- Weather, Economy: Your choice
- Cave-ins, temperature: Suggested to be on
- Suitably 'harsh' map:
. At least 20-50 world tiles from any other settlement
. "Hot" and above or "Cold" and below, NO temperate areas
. One perminate water supply /area feature suggested, NOT adamantium
. Any creature difficulty setting; Calm, Serene, and Terrifying are all valid
. Access to other civs is nice, but not necessary
- Original 7 dwarves must:
. Have a "Prison Administrator" that perminately remains off-duty
. Have at least one no-title military weaponry skill, except for prison admins
. Have 1/3 their number (2) be active in the military at any one time
. Be played with the [SPEED:1] hack until the first migrant wave arrives
. Build a prison complex capable of holding the first migrant wave
. Cease building the lower prison complex once the prisoners can do it themselves
- The prison complex must:
. Be able to house every immigrant in their own prison cell
. Be able to produce enough food for the prisoners
. Be able to make all prisoners work to produce stone and metal crafts
. Be able to produce whatever the trade liason requests
. Use it's prisoners to build more prison space, once they arrive
. Treat the gaurds that tantrum and the criminals that tantrum, differently
- Trade only only for food, animals, drink, ropes/chains, and cages
- All other crafted goods must be offered to the caravan
- Subsequent immigrant waves will immediately:
. Be activated for military service and moved into the prison complex
.. Unless the dwarf is military, which will become a part of the perminate gaurd
.. Unless the dwarf is a peasant, which will act as a 'low level' criminal
. Be treated as a 'medium level' criminal and moved to their cell.
- Immigrant waves with military in them must have a "high level" criminal chosen out of the other skilled dwarves in the wave. If it's just military dwarves, then think of it as an additional gaurd compliment.
- 'Low Level' Criminals are allowed to be where the original 7 dwarves are, but:
. Must never have any skills
. Must never have a room larger then 1 tile
. Must share their punishment with whomever they're married
. On the first criminal offense, be sent to 'medium level' cells for the duration of their punishment
.. Unless the offense wounded/killed a gaurd, at which point they are moved to 'high level' cells for the duration of their punishment, and then perminately moved to 'medium level' cells afterwards, never to return to 'low level' life.
- 'Medium Level' Criminals are placed in "Medium Level" cells, which:
. Are 3x3 rooms constructed entirely from grey-scale stone blocks
. Has a metal door and vertical bars, seperated by a wall
. Has a rope in the middle
. Has a bed near the bars, table w/chair, food stockpile, and functional well
. Has no ceiling at all
code:#####
D.WT# Door, Well, Table
#.Rc# Restraint rope, chair
VB.F# Vertical bars, Bed, Food stockpile
#####
- 'High Level' Criminals are placed in "High Level" cells, which:
. Are 1x3 +1 T-shape rooms constructed entirely from metal blocks
. Has a metal door and vertical bars, seperated by a wall along the 3-tile face
. Has a chain in the middle of the T shape
. Has a bed near the bars, a food stockpile near the door, and a pool of 7/7 water opposite the wall past the chain
. Has a grate for a roof, except for the area over the food stockpile
. Must be seperated from the 'Medium Level' cells
code:###
DF## Door, Food stockpile
#Rp# Restraint chain, 7/7 pool of water*
VB## Vertical bars, Bed
###
* (pool is also 100% constructed metal blocks)
- 'Medium Level' prisoner conduct follows that:
. The job they arrive with was their original job, which no longer applies
. They are in their cell for 3 out of 4 seasons
. They are allowed out of their cell 1 out of 4 seasons
.. Only to produce crafts at the communal workshop area
.. Only to produce what the trade laison requests
... And are moved there by using the military station point, and activating them
- 'High Level' cell use follows that:
. The occupant is activated for military service every other season
. They are used for housing the prison's tempermental individuals
.. And the occupant is never released, except by death; natural or unnatural
... Or by the expiration of their sentencing
Golden rule:
1. If you commit a further crime while in the prison, you'll be sent to a cell. No questions asked.
2. All nobles except the Hammerer are to be treated as imposters which were caught, and though they profess their innocence, ignore them as they go screaming to the 'High Level' criminal cells.
I'll try it tonight I think... but I thought somewhat more about it, when I want to make booze available for my "staff" wouldn't it be that locked away dwarves which are thirsty would try to reach the booze eternally and then die of thirst, even when they're standing right at a well? Or is it that they only go for things that are within possible reach?
I think a own room which is staffed like that would cause too many positive thoughts, which is contraproductive for the challenge, there should be no happy prisoners. And the whole individual cell thing is too modern for my taste. People should simply get thrown in sleeping barracks, maybe parted at sex or profession etc.. I think it would be more like a forced labor camp (which IMO fits more to the dwarven mindset) than a modern day prison. There should be a shortage of beds.
You could also make a dungeon where there is practically no physical connection to the pocket fortress above. Prison staff could just dump food etc. in... (with the typical shortages and collection of assorted spoiled uneatable stuff) doors are lockable with levers, there could be a room where finished goods are brought too regularly, and which is absolutely locked otherwise, to make sure that there is no connection to the world outside. It could also maybe make meeting zones for prisoners and staff parted from each other possible. The Leader should also be a exceptional good record keeper, all in all.. that's his job. Could it happen that dwarves simply elect another? Is this somehow to change?
There should be no economy, it just wouldn't make much sense.
This is all dependent from the pathfinding through... especially from prisoner dwarves not permanently trying to path to the staff fortress above for food, booze etc.
I remember in old 2d versions, where the pathfinding was very pissed off at locked doors and they would cause severe lags and odd pathfinding errors. I know that toady has enhanced that somewhat, but I don't know for certain if it suffices for this challenge.
[ February 09, 2008: Message edited by: Mover#005 ]
Consider making any connections between the prisoners and guards "airlock" style (possibly several doors deep) in case a few doors/bridges are knocked out by tantrums.
If it's possible to do so, a barracks made with a wall of wall bars would be awesome:
code:
█████████
█.......█
█...θ...█
█.......█
█‼‼‼‼‼┼‼█
I hope that's the right symbol for wall bars; I've only used them once, and that was several versions ago.
Possibly a spoiler for this one; I didn't make the connection right away:
.
.
.
.
M█ak█e lot█s of w█ea█p█ons█ so y█ou'l█l ha█ve mi█li█tar█y dwa█r█ves c█ome i█n th█e im█migr█at█ion █wa█ves █as █the█ "g█uar█ds".
.
.
.
Eh, I hope the blocks aren't too distracting. We need a spoiler tag!
[ February 10, 2008: Message edited by: Solara ]
It'd be pretty cool if there was some way you could mod the raws so that immigration goes UP as deaths go up. In a way, everyone -would- want their prisoners sent to the prison with the highest death rate...
quote:
Originally posted by Keizo:
<STRONG>You know, the only thing really unfortunate about this idea is that as more dwarves die, immigration waves will slow down dramatically. </STRONG>
Well, I'm not going to be doing any deliberate mass killing and will make an effort to separate violent prisoners from the general population, so the death toll shouldn't get too high too fast. I'm also hoping the enormous amount of goods I'll be offering to the caravan will help even things out...
The upper one would have access to walkways that travel around the top of all the lower fortress's rooms. All the guards should have crossbows, and there should be no way to go from the upper one to the lower one without going through an airlock-type thing. The guards would patrol the walkways, and the prisoners would be one level below, unable to reach the walkways.
The upper fortress would be your main fortress. A pop of about maybe 20 at the max. They would grow their own food and make booze and stuff, and have nice rooms. The bottom one would have a water supply, and some farms for food. Prisoners would have all other jobs disabled except for make rock crafts, hauling, and growing food. Maybe have a kitchen to cook the food too.
Can't decide the best way to get the rock crafts to the upper level easily... I am thinking a bunch of small stockpile rooms with double doors, and when one is filled the door to the prison camp closes and the door to the upper levels opens. The upper level guys then haul it to the trade depo.
quote:
Originally posted by Puzzlemaker:
<STRONG>The best way to do it would be to have 2 fortresses, one upper fortress and one lower one.The upper one would have access to walkways that travel around the top of all the lower fortress's rooms. All the guards should have crossbows, and there should be no way to go from the upper one to the lower one without going through an airlock-type thing. The guards would patrol the walkways, and the prisoners would be one level below, unable to reach the walkways.
The upper fortress would be your main fortress. A pop of about maybe 20 at the max. They would grow their own food and make booze and stuff, and have nice rooms. The bottom one would have a water supply, and some farms for food. Prisoners would have all other jobs disabled except for make rock crafts, hauling, and growing food. Maybe have a kitchen to cook the food too.
Can't decide the best way to get the rock crafts to the upper level easily... I am thinking a bunch of small stockpile rooms with double doors, and when one is filled the door to the prison camp closes and the door to the upper levels opens. The upper level guys then haul it to the trade depo.</STRONG>
Exactly that was my idea. It was dependant if or if not dwarves try to track to things they can't reach. But I tested this and they don't. But you'll need an aquifier.