Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: qoonpooka on December 03, 2010, 07:29:47 pm
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Okay, I give up. I've tried everything I can think of.
It used to be that you could just go into entity_default.txt in the raws and do this:
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:2]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:2]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:2]
But despite these settings, I still wind up with a single dwarven civ with multiple sites and 60-120 dwarves per site. I've tried some other stunts suggested in these forums, changing the max age of dwarves (looked like it reduced the population a bit, at best), setting 'playable civ required' to 'no.'
I've tried making the values lower and a little bit bigger (1, 2, 5, 10, and 20 are all values I've tried).
Dwarves and their civ seem invincible no matter what I do. Starting Group Size was removed in .13 I see... is that why this stunt doesn't work anymore? What are the options (other than 'play an earlier version' thanks) for wiping out dwarven civilization in the world gen?
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Set the maxage to 1 to 1. They should die off before they give birth, unless something big has changed since 40d in regards to dwarven age and birth. Then regen your world. Also note that you'll still get the first 2 migrant waves even if the dwarf civ is dead.
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I'll give it a try. I set the age to 5 but that seemed to make the population larger than when set to 10. If anyone else has any ideas toss 'em my way 'cause I'm pretty sure the age thing doesn't work anymore, either.
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If you're trying to kill off the dwarves, gen a world without mountains.
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If you're trying to kill off the dwarves, gen a world without mountains.
Good idea. I'd like to hear notions that leave mountains so I can still build conventional fortresses, etc. But I'll give that a try and see how it goes.
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If you're trying to kill off the dwarves, gen a world without mountains.
Good idea. I'd like to hear notions that leave mountains so I can still build conventional fortresses, etc. But I'll give that a try and see how it goes.
Actually, if the dwarves never exist in the first place, you can't play Fortress mode on that world, only Adventure (if other civ's exist) or Legends.
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Ok, tried it. Apparently dwarves with maxage of 1:1 will still somehow get married and give birth in their short little lives. Though I couldn't find any dwarves that were listed as parents oddly enough in legends mode. Most actually died single, though there was quite a few who still managed to get married before dieing. And the civ history showed all the positions changing hands every year as each dwarf died of old age. So, they were indeed limited to only 1 year of life.
The fact that none of the entries for all the dwarves that I looked through showed any children makes me think something else is afoot. Like maybe the world gen is genning new dwarves if the last dwarf in the civ dies of old age? Anyways, guess the maxage trick from 40d doesnt work anymore heh.
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Does legends give them parents, or do they just pop out of holes in the ground?
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Yup, no parents listed either.
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I'd suspect some kind of hard code preventer against last-dwarves-on-earth scenarios, but given that those scenarios are specific challenge listed on the wiki and are as enjoyable as they are - I really don't see Toady working to stamp it out...
There's got to be a way to do this...
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Have you tried removing dwarfs from the raws altogether, both race and entity, then modding them back in after gen?
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Incredibly high number of non-dwarven civs?
Would that work?
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Have you tried removing dwarfs from the raws altogether, both race and entity, then modding them back in after gen?
That I wouldn't know how to do.
Putting them into a world that's already genned is beyond my present abilities.
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Incredibly high number of non-dwarven civs?
Would that work?
I doubt it, to be frank. There's a LOT of gobbos elves and humans already - but they all just seem to share territory with the dwarves.
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Try setting the number of titans really high. Back before the population rewrite that did a spectacular job of wiping out all life on the planet. Maybe megabeast caves too. Problem is you probably won't get any traders.
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[MAXAGE:0:0] not 1.
Set the civ number for dwarves to 1. The single dwarf civ will still be generated, but the dwarves will die of old age in the second year.
Then, just keep trying to generate a world where no dwarven sites (no omega symbol) exist when you embark. Set the maxage back to [MAXAGE:150:170] in the saves' raws before you embark though.
edit - page 2 dwarf civ sniper
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Set the maxage to 1 to 1. They should die off before they give birth, unless something big has changed since 40d in regards to dwarven age and birth. Then regen your world. Also note that you'll still get the first 2 migrant waves even if the dwarf civ is dead.
I read somewhere that taking the women out of the population would be the way to go. So I modded:
[CASTE:FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[FEMALE]
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS
to:
[CASTE:FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
FEMALE
MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS
Basically commenting out the gender tag on women. The world-gen rejects any world that gets to the 'placing civilizations' stage. Removing 'Caste:Female' also does the same thing.
Game isn't playable by that tack. I'll try the age 0 next.
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[MAXAGE:0:0] not 1.
Set the civ number for dwarves to 1. The single dwarf civ will still be generated, but the dwarves will die of old age in the second year.
Then, just keep trying to generate a world where no dwarven sites (no omega symbol) exist when you embark. Set the maxage back to [MAXAGE:150:170] in the saves' raws before you embark though.
edit - page 2 dwarf civ sniper
No good.
As soon as the world finished genning I looked at world_sites and found:
26: Izegrig•th, "Apescraft", mountain halls
Owner: The North Trades, dwarves
Parent Civ: The Citadel of Excavation, dwarves
106 dwarves
80: Dorenluzat, "Diamondrub", mountain halls
Owner: The Eviscerated Stake, dwarves
Parent Civ: The Citadel of Excavation, dwarves
103 dwarves
90: “sedber, "Mazeearthen", mountain halls
Owner: The New Knife of Braving, dwarves
Parent Civ: The Citadel of Excavation, dwarves
101 dwarves
133: Okillitast, "Testtorches", mountain halls
Owner: The Healing Citadel, dwarves
Parent Civ: The Citadel of Excavation, dwarves
78 dwarves
163: Inodrath, "Gatetemples", mountain halls
Owner: The Messianic Urn, dwarves
Parent Civ: The Citadel of Excavation, dwarves
106 dwarves
and so on...
Age zero fails to eradicate them before they breed.
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I've accidentally genned no-dorf worlds while making pocket lands before. Where by "I've accidentally done it" I mean "I also genned a bunch of pocket worlds until I found one with no dorfs left, just for you." If you want pure vanilla, then, enjoy: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3518
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I've accidentally genned no-dorf worlds while making pocket lands before. Where by "I've accidentally done it" I mean "I also genned a bunch of pocket worlds until I found one with no dorfs left, just for you." If you want pure vanilla, then, enjoy: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3518
Three things -
1) You are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you!
2) Did you just use the default settings and keep genning until dorfs got wiped out through history, or was there some technique you used to do it? (Is this more likely on pocket worlds?)
3) Also, how do I use this file? Just drop it into saves as 'region1' or whatever?
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I had this problem too after setting maxage to 1 and the population numbers to 2, as you mentioned; taking a look at the world genned in Legends, the dwarves that popped up after the rest of the population died of old age had no parents. I suspect the worldgen process made more dwarves out of thin air, but no proof, so...
My 'solution' was to gen a world in 31.12 with the usual maxage and entity adjustments to ensure an extinct civilization, and then just port the save over to 31.18. However, I may be missing out on the night creatures and whatnot this way. (I embarked in a Joyous Wild swamp, so the world may never know, but at least my dwarves get to live the swamp castle sketch out of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. "And that's what you'll get, lad, the strongest castle in all of Hytalylarea.")
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I was under the impression that increasing the titan and megabeast numbers, and lowering the required population/wealth they arrive at, would make every civilization die, including dwarves. Is this no longer true?
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This was basically true when BC were 'NIGH INDESTRUCTIBLE!!!', and still holds merit today, but not always, especially in larger worlds.
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I've accidentally genned no-dorf worlds while making pocket lands before. Where by "I've accidentally done it" I mean "I also genned a bunch of pocket worlds until I found one with no dorfs left, just for you." If you want pure vanilla, then, enjoy: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3518
Three things -
1) You are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you!
2) Did you just use the default settings and keep genning until dorfs got wiped out through history, or was there some technique you used to do it? (Is this more likely on pocket worlds?)
3) Also, how do I use this file? Just drop it into saves as 'region1' or whatever?
You're welcome! I'm planning on using this for a seven-dwarf-sealaway - my first attempt is running into Problems. I.e., all my dorfs getting murdered by violent ghosts from the surface.
Yeah, just the default settings. I genned a pocket world to attempt a booze-party fort (where nobody does ANY unnecessary work) but didn't get a caravan! So I figured that if I genned one by accident, I could do it again on purpose. Took about 20 tries, but it worked. I think it works because civs tend to spawn closer together, so there's a decent chance the dorfs will spawn right next to hostile civs like goblins who then have a shot at wiping them out.
To use it, unzip the folder and put it in your data/save folder. You can then start a new game in that folder.
Oh, and just so you know: In the southwest, there's a solitary volcano. An embark site containing that volcano and some of the ground to the southeast will have not only readily available magma from the start, but also sand, flux, gabbro, granite, and sedimentary rock. I.e. even without dorfs to trade with you can still have pretty much anything you want in your fort.
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Since Toady made populations larger DF doesn't track every single person anymore, so intead of having direct lineage that can die out dorfs are just created. That is why you still have populations even though your historical figures don't breed...
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Since Toady made populations larger DF doesn't track every single person anymore, so intead of having direct lineage that can die out dorfs are just created. That is why you still have populations even though your historical figures don't breed...
Indeed, so it is - in fact - impossible to get them to simply expire due to being themselves unsustainable. That's a mighty disappointing side effect of an otherwise reasonable change.
Ah well. The suggestion to gen in an early version seems savvy, I will have to try that.
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I had this problem too after setting maxage to 1 and the population numbers to 2, as you mentioned; taking a look at the world genned in Legends, the dwarves that popped up after the rest of the population died of old age had no parents. I suspect the worldgen process made more dwarves out of thin air, but no proof, so...
My 'solution' was to gen a world in 31.12 with the usual maxage and entity adjustments to ensure an extinct civilization, and then just port the save over to 31.18. However, I may be missing out on the night creatures and whatnot this way. (I embarked in a Joyous Wild swamp, so the world may never know, but at least my dwarves get to live the swamp castle sketch out of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. "And that's what you'll get, lad, the strongest castle in all of Hytalylarea.")
This seems to partially solve the issue, yes.
Doing this I can reliably produce dead dwarven civilizations. There is still immigration, which is interesting. My first wave was only 2 dwarves though. I'll keep y'all posted on how this fort progresses. It's possible there were some survivors from the last generation - I didn't let history run that long.