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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: webadict on February 15, 2011, 05:55:21 pm

Title: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: webadict on February 15, 2011, 05:55:21 pm

Thank you Argembarger for the OP.

Welcome to Beginner's Mafia! This is the twenty-first run of our Beginner's Mafia series.

In Mafia, you are divided into two parts: 7 Town players and 2 Mafia players:
If you are Town, your goal is to lynch the Mafia. You do this by convincing others that one of the group is scum, and getting enough votes on them to lynch them.  The Town does not know who else is Town.
If you are Mafia, your goal is to kill off the Town until there is an equal number of them to you by getting them to lynch other Town or by killing them. You are given a kill each Night to kill any player in the game.  All the Mafia members know each other, and can communicate privately.

In Beginner's Mafia, you will be pitted up with a Town IC (Inexperienced Challenged) who will help you play the game, and will be just as clueless, if not more so, about the setup as you, and a Mafia IC, who will be helping out the Mafia.

In this particular Beginner's Mafia, there will be 2 ICs (Inexperienced Challanged), both of whom may be either Town or Mafia, who will be teaching you how to play. Please note, however, that they are playing the game as well. Their goal is to make sure you are ready for a non-Beginner game, but they will never lie to you about how to play the game.

Each Day, everyone votes to lynch a player.  Vote for a player by posting their name in red.  You may change your vote at any time, remove your vote, or vote for No Lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day gets lynched, even if there is no majority. (Example: Nobody votes except for one guy, who votes Generic_Steve. Generic_Steve would get lynched).

The Day will not end prematurely unless people vote to shorten the day. That is, there is no "hammer" in Beginner's Mafia, where X amount of votes (more than 50%) on a single person immediately ends the day with a lynch on that person. Some games do that, but not this one, and you would be explicitly informed in the rules if the hammer is active.

If there are tied votes for who gets lynched at the end of the day, the day ends in a no-lynch. (Two people vote for Generic_Steve, two people vote for Unassuming_Mary. Nobody gets lynched.) 

Each Night, you send in your actions. The cycle continues until one side wins. Days are 72 hours and nights are 24 hours. Weekends count for zero hours.

Game rules:

• You may not PM other players other than the mod. The mafia will have a place to talk to themselves.
• Never edit your posts, even to fix typos!  If you make a mistake, just double post- it's permitted here. Violation of this rule can lead to deadly repercussions.  I recommend using the preview button every time you post.
• Never quote your role PM or any other PM sent to you by the mod.
• If you need more time to discuss, you may ask for an extension.  If more players ask for one than those who decline one, the day will be extended by 48 hours.
• There are no limit to the number of extensions allowed per day.
• Please don't forget about this game if you sign up! If you cannot continue playing, please ask for a replacement! I will prod you via PM if you do not post in 48 hours to remind you that this game exists!
• Upon receiving your second prod, you are forcibly replaced (Another player takes your place) or modkilled (removed from the game) for inactivity. Beware.
• Upon being killed, you are entitled to one "Bah!" post, but you are not allowed to post any game-related content. After your Bah post, you MUST NOT POST AGAIN unless you somehow come back to life (impossible in this setup) or replace back in (you must have been town to do this). Failure to comply with this rule can lead to a bad reputation amongst mods, and difficulty in joining other games.
  
• Never underestimate your importance, and always play to win!

In this setup, there are the possibility of extra roles. These roles are Cop and Doctor for Town, and Roleblocker and Godfather for Mafia.

• A Cop inspects any player at Night. They are told that player's alignment, but not their role.
• A Doctor may protect any player at Night. This stops that player from being killed.
• A Roleblocker stops an extra role from using an action. This stops Doctors and Cops but does nothing for Townies.
• Roleblockers do not actually discover if their attempts were successful or not; that would be too powerful because the roleblocker would know they found a town power role. It isn't an investigative role (the same goes for the Doctor)! The Mafia needs to find the town power roles the old-fashioned way: analyzing behavior and voting patterns.
• Townies do not receive a message if they were blocked by a Mafia Roleblocker. Only a Cop or a Doctor will receive a message.
• A Godfather, if investigated by a Cop, looks just like a normal Townie.

There is a 50% chance for any of these roles to show up. It is possible to end up with no extra roles.

Extensions require support from at least one of the players.  You may oppose extensions as well, which cancels out an extension request.  For example, if there were five players, with two requesting and two opposing, there would be no extension.  (2-2 = 0 of 5)

Along with opposing extensions, there is also the option to Shorten/End the Day. They work differently from extensions, 33% required to pass with no objections. Shortening the Day ends the Day makes the day end as quickly as I can process it. Due to the nature of these requests, they also act just like Counter-Extensions.

Please bold requests/opposition to extensions, and Mod/my name if you want to ask me a question in-thread.  (IE: Mod: I have a question!) Please note that many of these questions may need to be repeated, as bolding won't appear on my phone.

Players:
lordnincompoop - Townie
SaintDraze - Townie
Akivara Ottofar
Japa
Tyberix
supercharazad - Townie
Painiac SaintDraze


ICs:
Toaster
Jim Groovester - Townie

Player Replacement Queue:
Ottofar

Helpful Links and Other Info:
Our own Bay12 Mafia tutorial (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0)
The Notable Games archive. Read a famous game from start to finish! Learn some Mafia history. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0)
The Mafiascum wiki. Lots of theory, terminology, and game analysis. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
An Interactive Flash tutorial by one of the Mafiascum.net people. Helpful visualization! (http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf)

Spoiler: Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience (click to show/hide)

A VERY rough sketch of how a scumhunt is done (to help those who aren't sure now).


Step 1: When you have no suspicions on anyone, pick someone at random (I MEAN random.. some use Random.org for this!), take a glance as their past posts, and talk to them, usually with a vote.  The goal is not to kill but to learn more about them.  The vote is a "Pressure Vote", simply used to make sure they don't ignore you.

Step 2: When someone feels 'off' to you: perhaps you disliked their answer, or maybe they scare you, or confuse you with their text.  Perhaps they look fine but your feelings or your gut says something is wrong. Perhaps you see them do one scumtell.  Don't ignore it: make them your target.  Attack them.  Tell them what bothers you about them.  Push them, harass them.  Tell them how scummy they are.  Ask them every question in the book.. and I mean EVERYTHING:

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"


Note, this is Step 2: Litia doesn't feel like she knows Dakarian is scum.. just had a 'feeling'.  She has no hard evidence, nothing real.  The questions are to add pressure.. make Dakarian crack and panic.  If you did it right, they WILL town or scum.  WHEN they do, you will be able to see more of their true self.  From there, decide if you can find them as scum for truth.  If you don't: pull out and go to your next suspect: if no one else is there, go back to Step 1.

If you do believe they are scum after that, Step 3:


Step 3: When you believe someone is scum, gather evidence.  Find every scum tell, every sign of their true motives.  Pull more from them.  DON'T LET GO!  Even if the town ignores you or even votes for you because of it, DO IT ANYWAY!  Push, push, PUSH, ***PUSH*** until you have solid proof of what they are.

If you can't find enough to prove them and run out of things to say, check one more time to see if you still feel he's scum, then pull back, look at others (Step 2) but be ready to go back to them at any time.  If your convinced and ready to kill them, Step 4

Step 4: Final step.  It's time to convince the town.  Show what you have.  Push the target so they show more scumminess.  Attack, but do it only to demonstrate to the town what you KNOW is true.  You aren't trying to argue with the mafia anymore.. you are trying to show the town why you are right and Mr.Mafia MUST be lynched.  If you are at this point, only 3 things can happen:

1.  The scum is lynched.
2. You are given so much information that you become CONVINCED that the target is town. (no less than CONVINCED.. doubt, maybe, 'perhaps' won't due)
3. You are dead.



That's how a basic scumhunt is done.  One last note on doubt:

Doubt is something that's ok to have but UGLY to show.  If you doubt or have second thoughts, DON'T DISPLAY IT.  If you think "He looks passive but I don't know..."  you SAY "You scum!  Stop being passive!!!"  If you think "He may have a good reason to attack guy really." say "Give me your reasons and stop being vague."

Doubt is something for yourself.  When you have doubt, go back and see if your original ideas still hold up.  If they do or if you find yourself saying "I'm not sure" then go back to the attack until you are sure.  This ain't the USA: we play by Guilty until Proven Innocent here.  Unless you can get yourself to believe they may be honest, keep the attack.

So doubt is ok to have if used right.. but the town does NOT need to hear it.  If you doubt, accuse anyway as if you know.  If you wonder, accuse as if you know it.  If you know the answer, ASK ANYWAY and let THEM answer.  Make them convince you they are town: don't do the job for them.


And that's scumhunting in a nutshell.  Everyone, try to figure out what Step you are on and work accordingly.  Note that you should be almost done Step 1 by the end of Day 1 (though some may be higher by then).  If you aren't, keep random voting and consider an Extension.

If you don't know WHAT you are.. you're in Step 1.  Get to random voting.

Last note: 'Not voting' should only be done when you are doing a quick look over everyone's past.  Otherwise, your vote and your attention should always be on SOMEONE, even if it is at random.

It's best for a lynch to be for a reason reason.. but it's better for someone to be lynched randomly than for no lynch to occur at all.

Spoiler: CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia (click to show/hide)

Alignment - Who you share a victory condition with. Town-aligned, Scum-aligned, or third party alignments.

Bandwagon - Multiple votes on a single person. Can be justified, or unjustified. Unjustified bandwagons are scummy. Joining bandwagons blindly or without reason is also scummy.

BM - Beginner's Mafia (Or, Bastard Mod, a Mafia game with a purposefully unreliable moderator, or misleading information)

Bus - (noun: the bus ; verb: bussing, throwing him/her under the bus) When a mafia member attacks another one in order to make themselves look like a loyal townie when his or her scumpartner gets lynched.

Cult - A group of players that share a win condition, know each other, and can communicate freely. They are generally a second type of scum, although rarely they can be town-aligned. Instead of a kill, they can recruit players into the cult. There is generally a cult leader, who is in charge of recruiting.

FoS - Finger of Suspicion, writing someone's name in blue signifies a great deal of suspicion. It's kind of like a fake-vote, or the threat of a vote. Good for getting attention.

FTD - Failure to Deliver, also known as Toaster's #1 Scumtell. The act of promising to post more information at a later time, and then failing to do so. A very difficult action to justify as town, because it means you are either lazy or lying, it is therefore seen as a pretty solid scumtell.

IC - Inexperienced Challenged, players who are too experienced to justify playing in a Beginner's Mafia, and act as mentors/guides for the Town or the Scum.

Lurking - Purposefully not posting, so that you have few or no posts that can be analyzed. Generally a good strategy for scum. However, has the danger of earning you prods, getting modkilled, or found out via Zathras' Lurkertracker. Lurking is different than simply being away or unavailable. A good way to tell if someone is lurking is to check their profile's last active time, and compare it to their last post.

LYLO - Lynch or Lose, a situation where Town only outnumbers Scum by a single person (e.g. 3 town vs. 2 scum). During LYLO, Town MUST lynch Scum or instantly lose.

Masons - A group of town-aligned players who know each other to be town-aligned. They can communicate with each other freely.

MYLO - Mislynch and Lose, a situation where Town outnumbers Scum by two people (4 town vs. 2 scum). During MYLO, if Town lynches Town, Scum will win after night-killing town, making it 2 town vs. 2 scum, which is an instant scum win.

NL - No Lynch, to choose to end the day without lynching anyone and see if any information is revealed in the night.

OMGUS - Oh My God U Suck, a vote on someone else simply because they voted or attacked you

PFP - Posting From Phone (or Profession), throwing up a short post to prove you aren't lurking, when you are too busy at the time to make a more complete post.

PL - Policy Lynch, lynching someone for reasons other than scumminess. Variants are Lynch All Lurkers, Lynch All Liars, etc. Also see: Org.

PPE - Pre-Post Edit, typically done when you go to either Preview or Post and notice that someone else has posted before you. PPE is shorthand for acknowledging the "Warning - You may wish to review your post" message.

RIA - Refuge in Audacity, acting really crazy or really scummy to make people think that you couldn't possibly be scum because of how crazy you are. This never works. Neither does sarcasm in general, really. If you want to be sarcastic, make it painfully obvious you are being sarcastic, with <sarcasm>fake sarcasm tags</sarcasm>. Even still, it's not a good idea, because Mafia is SERIOUS BUSINESS

Role - Also called Power Role, any special powers you have. Cops, doctors, roleblockers, and godfathers are examples of classic roles. Some roles are alignment-specific, some aren't, and some can be for any alignment.

Rolefishing - Any question or attempt to learn information about someone's role. Typically something done at the beginning of the game. Typically a scum move, because it is in scum's advantage to find and lynch powerful roles. Can be acceptable later in the game, or in special circumstances where it is beneficial for town to learn someone's role. The reason it is scummy is because the really powerful town roles want to stay hidden so they don't get lynched by scum, and bringing attention to them by rolefishing risks their secrecy.

RVS - Random Voting Stage, the early-early game, shortly after the game begins, where people randomly vote each other and ask each other different questions, trying to find any good reason to suspect someone.

Scum - Mafia, or someone who isn't aligned with the Town. The Informed Minority.

SK - Serial Killer, a third party role with a nightkill, and who is hostile to everyone.

Survivor - a third party role whose win condition requires that they be alive at the end of the game. Normal players can die and still win as long as their team as a whole wins, but a survivor must actually be alive at the end.

Third Party - an alignment that is independent of scum and town. Has a unique victory condition, and is typically a lone wolf type character.

Town - The anti-Scum. The uninformed majority.

Vanilla - Someone who doesn't have a power role. "Vanilla Town", "Vanilla Scum", etc.

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me, the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

Quote from: Princess Bride

"All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)

Quote from: IronyOwl

Scumtells are things that someone does or says that imply that they're scum. Usually the reasoning is that it's bad or not productive for townies to do it, so it can be hard to distinguish signs of being scum from signs of being a noob. This is one of the reasons scum almost always win beginner's mafia games.

Note that scumtells are very very subjective; there's no simple way to distinguish a scumtell from a noobtell from being justified and/or lazy. Whether a justified, non-scummy version of a scumtell should still be called by its normal name varies from person to person. (Someone might describe their voting of someone who voted them as "not an OMGUS," other would say it's "a justified OMGUS" for instance)

In any case, common scumtells include:

Bandwagoning: Voting for whoever has the most votes or seems most likely to be lynched, despite having poor/no reasons or not wanting them lynched previously. It implies that you don't care who gets lynched, you just want someone gone, which is generally the case for scum.

OMGUSing: Short for Oh My God You Suck, by the way. Voting or otherwise applying pressure to whoever's voting you. It implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want them to stop, which is more a scum thing. A townie would, in theory, be more open to the notion that their fellow townie is attempting to scumhunt at them, and less concerned about being found out.

Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.

Lurking: Not posting. Especially suspicious in the case of Active Lurking, which is trying to look active while not actually doing anything (posting frequently but with no substance, for instance). The idea in either case is that townies actually care about finding scum, and so should be doing things. Scum don't care, they just want some random guy lynched so they can kill someone at night.

Appearing Too Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be seen as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum.

Quote from: Argembarger

Resigning yourself to being lynched.
Saying something like "there's no way for me to avoid being lynched so I won't bother trying"
Blackmailing the town, like "You can lynch me, but you'll be sorry when you see I was town all along!"
Voting yourself for any reason.

If you're still confused, join anyhow and we'll teach you!

And if you have any other questions, just ask!

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 0/9] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Argembarger on February 15, 2011, 06:15:47 pm

The typical IC requirement is, what, around 4 completed games, or something? I've completed four, in one and also in signups for another WWYDT.

If you think I am good enough, I'd be happy to IC for you.

It's cool if I'm not, though.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 0/9] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 15, 2011, 06:23:29 pm

Quote from: Argembarger on February 15, 2011, 06:15:47 pm

The typical IC requirement is, what, around 4 completed games, or something? I've completed four, in one and also in signups for another WWYDT.

If you think I am good enough, I'd be happy to IC for you.

It's cool if I'm not, though.

We're currently working on a new IC system as we speak, but I'll make a note of it.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 0/9] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 15, 2011, 06:26:53 pm

In!

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 1/9] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: SaintDraze on February 15, 2011, 08:33:04 pm

I am in I guess...
God I fail at mafia...

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 2/9] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Akivara on February 15, 2011, 11:23:54 pm

In!

I've never played Mafia before, but I have read some of the notable games.  Is that new enough?  :P

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 2/9] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 05:03:18 am

Oh yes, definitely. Read through the rules and FAQ if you haven't already.

And try not to give up when the eventual bandwagon on you comes. :P

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 0/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 08:51:52 am

That's plenty good.  I highly recommend reading previous games here to see how things are generally done.  The Notable Thread Archive (linked at top) has several good ones.

I guess I'll go ahead and in as IC.  I'll try to explain my actions as I go along.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 01:43:27 pm

Got a clue of what flavour you might want to have Web?
Or are you just going to go generic?

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 01:44:39 pm

"Kill webaddict- easy modo" :3

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Argembarger on February 16, 2011, 01:56:32 pm

bluh

Kill Webadict easy mode wouldn't even be worth playing, lol.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 01:59:56 pm

Doesn't have to be, now does it? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NonindicativeName)

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 02:16:46 pm

I'm hoping for a beer theme, personally.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Rose on February 16, 2011, 02:35:22 pm

I'm being pulled into this.

IN, I guess.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 02:37:12 pm

~More beer more beer all we want is more beer~

Normal beer vs. evil alcoholfree beverages?

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 02:39:41 pm

The Attack of the Flying Obese Mischievously Evil Pepperoni-Flavoured Olive-Topped Pizza Slices!

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Argembarger on February 16, 2011, 02:40:59 pm

my votes for a theme wherein everyone is a mentally disturbed man alone in an abandoned psych ward.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 02:41:54 pm

Quote from: Argembarger on February 16, 2011, 02:40:59 pm

my votes for a theme wherein everyone is a mentally disturbed man alone in an abandoned psych ward.

YES

We must do this!

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 03:52:56 pm

In,i got to train my not lurking skill more ;p

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Ottofar on February 16, 2011, 03:59:43 pm

I'll be Ottofaring again.
Replacin' n' stuff.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 04:24:39 pm

IN

It seems I'm not allowed to play other games until I've done this a few times, so, here I am.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 04:26:25 pm

I am so in

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 04:27:31 pm

It's not that you're not allowed to, it's just that you don't know how to do it. You know, less shouting "SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMBEANSSCUMBACONSCUMSAUSAGESCUMSCUMSCUM!!!" and stuff

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 04:29:58 pm

Quote from: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 04:27:31 pm

It's not that you're not allowed to, it's just that you don't know how to do it. You know, less shouting "SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMBEANSSCUMBACONSCUMSAUSAGESCUMSCUMSCUM!!!" and stuff

I did stop doing that, and then the town decided that newbies = scum, and should be dumped.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 04:30:31 pm

But I like this, man. It works on some people, and doesn't hurt to try.

Well, trying that on experienced player was just stupid.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 04:31:45 pm

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 04:26:25 pm

I am so in

Have ya read some of the games, the rules and FAQ?

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 04:29:58 pm

Quote from: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 04:27:31 pm

It's not that you're not allowed to, it's just that you don't know how to do it. You know, less shouting "SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMBEANSSCUMBACONSCUMSAUSAGESCUMSCUMSCUM!!!" and stuff

I did stop doing that, and then the town decided that newbies = scum, and should be dumped.

I don't remember a point at which you stopped. You just seemed to just hope after the bandwagon.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 04:34:25 pm

I am making my own mafia games, thank you. It sucks I can't elaborate in my native language here.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 04:37:18 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 04:29:58 pm

I did stop doing that, and then the town decided that newbies = scum, and should be dumped.

You did stop doing that, and people stopped voting for you. But after Painiac's vote you fell back to that behaviour.

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 04:30:31 pm

But I like this, man. It works on some people, and doesn't hurt to try.

Wrong, it does. Asking somebody to prove they're not scum and they then fail to deliver is not a scumtell on their part. It's a scumtell by you.

Mafia works on an innocent until proven guilty basis. Usually. If you just say "they're scum because  they can't prove they're not" is just a lame asspull and looks like you're trying to kill somebody who can't do a damn thing about it. Oh wait, you are.

Stop the baseless accusing and the OMGUSing and you might actually do fine. But you weren't, so now you're stuck here.

Also, killing a confirmed town might seem stupid, even if they behave like idiots. Except Super was the bloody kingmaker. You can't have somebody who spazzes out for the smallest reasons have that kind of power.

I hope I made my point now.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 04:45:32 pm

I beg to differ. Guilty until proven Innocent. It was even in Dakarian basic scumhunt. I'm not conjuring this up.

I don't care about my image; I'm the townie, so how can I be scum? Caring about image is scummy thing to do.

There was some basis. It lacked right approach, though.

It wasn't SaintDrake who was cornered. I was.

But yea, you are making good points.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 04:46:37 pm

Sure, it actually is guilty until proven innocent. But you shouldn't play like it. You should go out and actually prove why they're scum, with actual evidence and such. Otherwise, you just come off as a buffoon.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 04:50:18 pm

I'll offer myself as an IC.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 16, 2011, 04:52:16 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 04:50:18 pm

I'll offer myself as an IC.

I think that might be fine, but Argembarger asked first (Before the change), so I'll see if he wants that position first. Otherwise it's yours.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Darvi on February 16, 2011, 04:53:05 pm

He can be non-playing scum/town IC.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 16, 2011, 04:55:59 pm

Quote from: webadict on February 16, 2011, 04:52:16 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 04:50:18 pm

I'll offer myself as an IC.

I think that might be fine, but Argembarger asked first (Before the change), so I'll see if he wants that position first. Otherwise it's yours.

I changed my mind. I figure you've got more experience than Argembarger, and you'll be able to train them to not be terrible.

Jim Groovester's in.

That's 9 people. I'll start this in 20 minutes or so.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Argembarger on February 16, 2011, 04:58:07 pm

Nah, absolutely go with Jim. This should be pretty awesome, actually.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 05:02:16 pm

That works better for me anyway, I'll be able to give absolutely unfiltered advice. If I wasn't a player I'd feel like I'd have to hold myself back.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 05:05:20 pm

Woo hoo, I woke up just in time.  :)

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: 3/7 ICs: 1/2] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 05:11:48 pm

Quote from: Argembarger on February 16, 2011, 02:40:59 pm

my votes for a theme wherein everyone is a mentally disturbed man alone in an abandoned psych ward.

Damn it! now everyone will think that I just copied of this suggestion they read my post on the game threshold disscussion thread -_-
Good idea though

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 05:37:58 pm

Darn, I was about to sleep too.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 16, 2011, 05:42:20 pm

As a precaution, these are the role PMs for the roles. In general, I will make all role PMs in this style, as they are easy to read. If you have any questions about what these or your own role PM mean, PM me.

Quote

Godfather
(Auto) Miller: You turn up Town to inspections.

Quote

Roleblocker
(Night) Block [target]: The target is blocked from actioning tonight.

Quote

Mafioso
No Abilities

Quote

Cop
(Night) Inspect [target]: You are told the target's alignment.

Quote

Doctor
(Night) Protect [target]: You stop the target from dying tonight.

Quote

Townie
No Abilities

---

It was a warm summer day. A good day for a hike.

"Ooga ooga," your friend yelled at you. You agreed.

You and your 8 buddies were hiking through the forest, searching for a nice animal to kill and bring home to the wives. Yes, nothing quite like male bonding. Plus, the quarry had been shut down, since nobody found mining rocks to be economically viable, so you figured this would suit as a good part-time job.

"Ooga ooga?" asked the leader of the party. It was a good question that you figured needed answering.

"Ooga ooga!" shouted another, pointing to a nearby cave. You had nearly missed it, bumping into the person in front of you.

The nine of them entered the cave. One of your friends managed to conjure up a fire-stick. You traveled deep into the creature's lair. You gripped your pointy stick, palms sweating.

After several minutes of searching for the creature, you find the end of the tunnel. It seems the creature abandoned the cave a while ago. You turned to leave.

As you reach the entrance, you are deeply dismayed.

"OOGA OOGA!?!" you yelled.

The cave entrance had been covered by a giant rock. On the boulder, someone had scratched the words, 'Ooga ooga ooga.' But, why would anyone do that in the first place?

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze -
Akivara -
Japa -
Tyberix -
supercharazad -
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - lordnincompoop, SaintDraze, Akivara, Japa, Tyberix, supercharazad, Painiac, Toaster, Jim Groovester,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

It is now Day.

Remember, if you have any questions about the game, you may ask me in private or in thread. I will do my best to answer them.

And remember to have fun. Or else!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 05:56:34 pm

sigh... Time To Poke the Bear....

SuperCharazad

Now to see what happens...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 05:57:40 pm

Uh, 4 hours of sleep probably won't kill me so let's get this started ?

SaintDraze* Oooga Ooga ? Or maybe not ? What  scummtells  you would want to see early in the game ? How would you handle full town bandwagon or double-vote (i mean two votes in two following posts) ? Any advice brought from previous BM ?

Painiac Should we pessimistically assume that we end in LYLO ? ( Two previous BM i played ended like that). Are you for or against lynching lurkers as quickly as possible ?

*RVS just in case somebody wants to attack me for it... Also i'm not responsible for my lunatic rabbling for next hour :P

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 pm

I'm sleepy and it is late, so I'll not be on for some time after this:

lordnincompoop - How many other Mafia games have you played?
SaintDraze - Why did you vote me before the game even began? Are you looking to lynch a townie? Are you scum?
Akivara - Dragon or Wyvren
Japa - Minecraft or DF?
Tyberix - PC or Console?
Painiac - Have you learned from our Kingmaker experience?
Toaster - Cake or Pie?
Jim Groovester - Shoe or Sock?

Most of these are silly, I'm tired now, good night all, except scum, in which case, I hope you have a sleepless night of sadness and pain :D

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 05:59:59 pm

Now that the game has started and I am now responsible for teaching seven of you how to play a game, I will say the following first.

I will be a completely impartial source of advice that I will freely give at every opportunity, whether I am asked for it or I decide to give it on my own. You can trust that everything I have to say will be given in good faith, even if it comes at a personal cost to me in this game. If you do not listen to what I have to say, for any reason, you will severely hamper your ability to learn how to play the game. So, to reiterate,

Listen to what I tell you.

If you don't, then what's the point of me being here?

For those of you who don't know what to do, games usually start with the Random Vote Stage. You should pick a target randomly, vote them, and ask them a question. The sole purpose of this is to get conversation going when there would otherwise be no reason to do that. I'll start.

Japa, you've never played a game of mafia before, right? How would you determine who to inspect at night?

Ideally you should ask game related questions in the RVS. Asking what kind of flavor of ice cream is a player's favorite does absolutely nothing to help you find scum, which is your primary goal.

And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal.

If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.

Since many of you are going to have no idea what to do and will mangle scumhunting in just about every possible way, it does you no good to hold back. So be bold, and just do the best you can. I'll be here to tell you where you're going wrong.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:02:10 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 pm

I'm sleepy and it is late, so I'll not be on for some time after this:

lordnincompoop - How many other Mafia games have you played?
SaintDraze - Why did you vote me before the game even began? Are you looking to lynch a townie? Are you scum?
Akivara - Dragon or Wyvren
Japa - Minecraft or DF?
Tyberix - PC or Console?
Painiac - Have you learned from our Kingmaker experience?
Toaster - Cake or Pie?
Jim Groovester - Shoe or Sock?

Most of these are silly, I'm tired now, good night all, except scum, in which case, I hope you have a sleepless night of sadness and pain :D

well that went better then I thought!
:D

Unvote Supercharazad

Now for painiac
vote painiac
Do you know why I Voted supercharazad in the beginning?
It had something to do with the game that you got replaced out of...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 06:05:29 pm

SaintDraze: Keep any personal beefs you have with other players out of the game.

Also, you haven't answered Supercharazad's question directed at you.

That's something you need to do. You always need to answer any questions posed to you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 06:09:09 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 pm

I'm sleepy and it is late, so I'll not be on for some time after this:

lordnincompoop - How many other Mafia games have you played?
SaintDraze - Why did you vote me before the game even began? Are you looking to lynch a townie? Are you scum?
Akivara - Dragon or Wyvren
Japa - Minecraft or DF?
Tyberix - PC or Console?
Painiac - Have you learned from our Kingmaker experience?
Toaster - Cake or Pie?
Jim Groovester - Shoe or Sock?

Most of these are silly, I'm tired now, good night all, except scum, in which case, I hope you have a sleepless night of sadness and pain :D

Uh,i got both. This is only acceptable because you said you go to sleep ( i need to go too :P),otherwise i would vote you for slowing down and breaking the RVS with this. Even one with obvious answer, but at least a bit mafia-oriented question would be more suitable here...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 06:11:43 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 pm

Akivara - Dragon or Wyvren

I like both, but if I had to pick I'd pick dragon, they have more variety and are usually more intelligent.

/rolls 1d8

lordnincompoop:  Under what circumstances would you bus your scumpartner?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:17:59 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 pm

lordnincompoop - How many other Mafia games have you played?

I don't actually know. Never kept count, but what I can tell you is that they are few and I fouled most of them up, which is why I'm here and not out there (well, mostly).

SaintDraze - Who would be your favoured scumpartner? Why are you switching votes so quickly? Do you not want to pressure?
Akivara - How do you feel about this game? Are you confident?
Japa - How do you think you will do at this game? How do you plan on scumhunting today?
Tyberix - Do you enjoy Mafia? How active are you planning on being?
supercharazad - In the last game, you were lynched D1. Have you learned from this? How do you plan on behaving?
Painiac - How many games have you played? Do you believe yourself to be a good scumhunter?
Toaster - How will you be playing this game? How will the game change, now that we have playing ICs?
Jim Groovester - What are your expectations for this round of Beginners' Mafia? As an IC, how do you think you will impact this game?

Quote from: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 06:11:43 pm

lordnincompoop:  Under what circumstances would you bus your scumpartner?

Ohai. I would bus my scumpartner if I find it would put me in a very favourable situation, such as when my credibility is at stake, or when I can no longer bear to keep my scumpartner afloat for whatever reason.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 06:23:13 pm

Oh, right.  Normally asking useless questions would get my FoS, Supercharazad, we're not going to find scum without some pressure.  But since you said you were going to bed, I'll let it slide for now.  I expect scumhunting when you get back, young man/woman/thing that might actually be older than me, I don't know.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 06:24:49 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:17:59 pm

Akivara - How do you feel about this game? Are you confident?

It's too early to tell.  I'm having fun so far, and I hope to find me some scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:27:40 pm

Burp. Ooga.

Akivara, would you want to be scum, or townie?

lordnincompoop: Well, let's count. Four. Oh lol. I had MG-ed more of them than played. And that's why I want to learn. To make my games even more awesome. Well, I had practically hunted down scums by myself in one of these mafia's, so when I'm not stupid buffon I can actually think.

Tyberix: well, we have to fight and scumhunt to avoid it. It's practically the worst scenario for us. Well, fighting with knife on your neck is kind of challenging and interesting, but we have to do our homework to avoid it.

Supercharazad: I will stop myself, make more objective outlooks on the game, to not get tunel-vision, and learn. Simply shut up and learn. I am here mainly for experience anyway. And Capslock goes to trash. Goodbye.

SaintDraze: well, I'm getting this vibe you are some sort of buddies, so it's natural, then. Something with Kingmaker? Well, you maybe want to check if he had learned anything from there.

SaintDraze: How many beginner mafia's you had played?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

Its not a personal thing at all... Super just always happens to spazz out whenever someone votes him, Seeing that it wasn't really that bad I take it that he is either cautious because he might be scum, or He might be learning...

That was your answer, Super, btw...

Doing the same for Painiac because He panic'd before he got replaced...

And Thats what I meant by "Poking the Bear"
Because noobs spazzing out are never good for town...
Only good for mafia.

sillyness Is a good thing to have at the start of the game ,as It is good for cutting tension and makes sure everyone knows this is being played between friends...

And Jim, are you saying that Japa is a cop? that question wasn't really phrased right...
Did supercharazad, painiac, and me provoke you in becoming An IC in Bm?
Tyberix
To answer your question,
Ogg Uoog, maybe yes, I would like to see some defensivness, or someone asking what scumtells I would want to see so as to know Which ones to specifically avoid,As for bandwagons I would try to do what painiac did In king maker 4, Only, you know, Good? (he tried to deflect attention onto another person who did not have much experiance...) as for the double vote, Its just two votes, it won't be a problem unless it snowballs...

LordNinCompoop
Well My favorite kind of scum partner is one who generally stays quite Until something needs to be said... which would complement me because I Rather post alot...
I am switching votes quickly to see if I can provoke super into pulling a stupid and spazzing out...And I am rather happily surprised that he didn't.
I only pressure when I have 3 strikes on someone...
Now a question for you,
Suppose super will noob spazz later in this day, and trust me his noobness is a sight to behold, will you be willing to lynch him even if you are not entirely sure he is scum?

Painiac-One, You?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 06:36:01 pm

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:27:40 pm

Akivara, would you want to be scum, or townie?

Townie, which I thankfully am.  If I'm townie my first game, I know what I act like as a townie, and can mimic that in future games if I am scum.  Scum is tempting, because it's nice to know for sure and they usually win beginner games, but then I'd have to make an educated guess as to acting like a townie, and might slip up.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:39:06 pm

You do realise you've only got one vote, right?

Also, MG? Eh?

Quote from: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 06:24:49 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:17:59 pm

Akivara - How do you feel about this game? Are you confident?

It's too early to tell.  I'm having fun so far, and I hope to find me some scum.

And how are you planning on doing that? Do you know how to pressure? If so, why are you not doing it?

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:27:40 pm

lordnincompoop: Well, let's count. Four. Oh lol. I had MG-ed more of them than played. And that's why I want to learn. To make my games even more awesome. Well, I had practically hunted down scums by myself in one of these mafia's, so when I'm not stupid buffon I can actually think.

Ah. Do you feel that you are inexperienced enough for this game? Do you plan on showing any of these skills you have soon? How do you usually play Mafia?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

LordNinCompoop
Well My favorite kind of scum partner is one who generally stays quite Until something needs to be said... which would complement me because I Rather post alot...
I am switching votes quickly to see if I can provoke super into pulling a stupid and spazzing out...And I am rather happily surprised that he didn't.
I only pressure when I have 3 strikes on someone...
Now a question for you,
Suppose super will noob spazz later in this day, and trust me his noobness is a sight to behold, will you be willing to lynch him even if you are not entirely sure he is scum?

I've seen him spazz. We were in the same game, remember? XX? The one still going?

I vote to lynch the best candidate I can find after a good amount of pressure and all that.

In this game, you are never entirely sure. you go with what the person that seems scummiest. If he is that person, then I will vote for him.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

And Jim, are you saying that Japa is a cop? that question wasn't really phrased right...

Blatant rolefishing, this early in the game? What?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 06:39:33 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:17:59 pm

Tyberix - Do you enjoy Mafia? How active are you planning on being?

Mafia is probably only forum game thats equally enjoyable as it's RL counterpart. Sometimes it's even better since you probably don't know other's quirks and behavior very well, and guessing them is the best part of it ;p As for activeness it probably be better than previous BM's , i have most exams past me for now so !FREE TIME YAY!

Fakeedit:

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:27:40 pm

Tyberix: well, we have to fight and scumhunt to avoid it. It's practically the worst scenario for us. Well, fighting with knife on your neck is kind of challenging and interesting, but we have to do our homework to avoid it.

So you're suggesting we shouldn't be aggressive in scumhunt ?

Fakeedit2 (that's annoying):
SaintDraze How stating what you find suspicious could be suspicious,that's the principle of scumhunt? Also i understand that two votes snowballing would be a problem because you're scum ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:42:06 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 06:39:33 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:17:59 pm

Tyberix - Do you enjoy Mafia? How active are you planning on being?

Mafia is probably only forum game thats equally enjoyable as it's RL counterpart. Sometimes it's even better since you probably don't know other's quirks and behavior very well, and guessing them is the best part of it ;p As for activeness it probably be better than previous BM's , i have most exams past me for now so !FREE TIME YAY!

How many times have you played scum? What have you learned from those games?

If we were to find ourselves in a LYLO/MYLO situation, how would you handle that?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 06:43:43 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:17:59 pm

Jim Groovester - What are your expectations for this round of Beginners' Mafia? As an IC, how do you think you will impact this game?

I don't have any expectations. I usually don't whenever I enter a new game of mafia. I expect I will have lots of opportunity to impart my knowledge and wisdom. I don't expect a town win, if only because I don't know if there's ever been a town win for a Beginner's Mafia, and I'm going to have trouble reading new players. Fortunately that's not an issue I'm concerned with.

As an IC I expect people will suspect me just because of my experience. This is partly why I opened with in big bold letters telling people to listen to what I tell them.

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:27:40 pm

Akivara

. . .

SaintDraze:

You may only vote one person at a time.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

sillyness Is a good thing to have at the start of the game ,as It is good for cutting tension and makes sure everyone knows this is being played between friends...

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 05:59:59 pm

Listen to what I tell you.

Silly questions are useless.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

And Jim, are you saying that Japa is a cop? that question wasn't really phrased right...
Did supercharazad, painiac, and me provoke you in becoming An IC in Bm?

Yes, it's a hypothetical question.

And yes, you did.

Why are you switching your vote around to see if Supercharazad is going to spazz out? How is that going to help you find scum? Why are you asking lordnincompoop if he'd be willing to lynch a spazzy Supercharazad even if he's sure he's not scum? Because that's a scummy question on your part.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Book on February 16, 2011, 06:46:01 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:39:06 pm

I've seen him spazz. We were in the same game, remember? XX? The one still going?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:02:10 pm

Do you know why I Voted supercharazad in the beginning?
It had something to do with the game that you got replaced out of...

Dudes! NO TALKING ABOUT ONGOING GAMES outside the thread! That's severely uncool.

^{(Also, dudes not playing shouldn't post, but I've seen this tendency lately, so I had to speak up. I'll shut up now. And Listen to Jim!)}

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:53:32 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 06:43:43 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

And Jim, are you saying that Japa is a cop? that question wasn't really phrased right...
Did supercharazad, painiac, and me provoke you in becoming An IC in Bm?

Yes, it's a hypothetical question.

And yes, you did.

Why are you switching your vote around to see if Supercharazad is going to spazz out? How is that going to help you find scum? Why are you asking lordnincompoop if he'd be willing to lynch a spazzy Supercharazad even if he's sure he's not scum? Because that's a scummy question on your part.

How is it a scummy question, Jim?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:57:40 pm

SaintDraze: Well, this is first one with somebody experienced helping me out.

lordnincompoop: It is my first try to do it like that. While I don't have experience to play like that, I have some good basis how people act because of my GM-ing experience. And I have some basic psychological knowledge, it also helps. I would start some scumhunt right from the bat, but I'm too tired to do it today. How I played mafia... It was like this, but in amateur version. People started to spam heavily with flavor text (most of them don't care about other things >.>), I am picking some suspicious scumtell, and press. if I had choose good person to attack, I will get proofs of their guilty. If not, I will get proof of their innocence. It works often like that. And works.

Tyberix: No, absolutely not. I'm simply pointing that when you are in tense situation like this, you are sitting and analysing whole game, every corner, and try to bake some good theory with strong points. It's like playing on harder level, it's simply more fun. But I'm not suggesting to lose townies for such stupid thing. It may come anyway...

Okay, it's middle of the night, and I had sleep for 4 hours. Excuse me, but I'm tired as fuck.

SaintDraze.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 07:00:48 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:53:32 pm

How is it a scummy question, Jim?

He's voting around to cause Supercharazad to spaz out.

He's then asking you if you'd be willing to lynch him, without being sure that Supercharazad is scum.

He's expecting that you'd vote for Supercharazad based on him being a complete and utter spaz. It wouldn't be so bad if SaintDraze didn't admit that he was trying to cause this to happen.

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:57:40 pm

SaintDraze.

Even for Fingers of Suspicions, you have to have a reason. So, what's yours?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 07:02:57 pm

Well, I had remade my mistake before, but I can't even think straght...

OK. Some homework for you, SaintDraze.

What do you think about roleclaims?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

Because A spazzing noob usually ruins the day...and the days that follow if he isn't lynched...
I voted super because I wanted to see if he'd spazz out so I would kinda know what to expect...
as for asking that question, I already got a satisfactory answer...
and I Take it as a yes, If super does spazz LP's going to lynch vote him...
Unless of course someone roleclaims godfather...

Wait.... Oh shit, My bad then Book...
Annnd there goes most of my Mentionable reasons for how I scum pick people...
Shit...

Well I think false roleclaims just postpone the inevitable, True roleclaims have a tendancy to rush nights
and claiming scum is just hilariously stupid...

And jim, I don't want super to spazz, But testing super to see if he does spazz this early in the game will let me be more sure of what I am doing later in the game...

I myself see the beginning of d1 as info gathering and Then Finding scum is the main priorit for the rest of the game...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 07:16:09 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:42:06 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 06:39:33 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:17:59 pm

Tyberix - Do you enjoy Mafia? How active are you planning on being?

Mafia is probably only forum game thats equally enjoyable as it's RL counterpart. Sometimes it's even better since you probably don't know other's quirks and behavior very well, and guessing them is the best part of it ;p As for activeness it probably be better than previous BM's , i have most exams past me for now so !FREE TIME YAY!

How many times have you played scum? What have you learned from those games?

If we were to find ourselves in a LYLO/MYLO situation, how would you handle that?

Well i finished only one game,and there's BM XX going on so i don't have much experience, but i got few harsh lessons from them ;p
First of all, lurkers are a serious problem,and i mean SERIOUS, that's annoying as hell when you have nothing to say about certain person only because he doesn't post not because he plays good... Also claiming town and abusing exclamation marks is certain way to get lynched :P

LYLO/MYLO : There's the problem, i really have no fail-proof strategy on these but what i concluded is that if you don't have at least 1 pretty certain town identified, you lost. When you got some point of start you could get to looking for patterns in people attacks and seek reason behind them,and of course hope for scum mistake.

Painiac How would you choose doc target ,if you were one, on N1 ?

SaintDraze Don't you think that trying to get supercharazad framed for previous mistakes isn't bit of a scummy tunnel-vision ?

Goodnight/evening/day/morning everybody i'm going to sleep.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 16, 2011, 07:21:26 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop - Akivara,
SaintDraze - Tyberix, lordnincompoop, Painiac,
Akivara -
Japa - Jim Groovester,
Tyberix -
supercharazad -
Painiac - SaintDraze,
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Japa, supercharazad, Toaster,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 07:23:28 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

...
...
...
...
...

.... ...
...
...


...

...

...

Do you have a broken period key? Because it seems like whenever you end a sentence, you get an ellipsis.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

And jim, I don't want super to spazz, But testing super to see if he does spazz this early in the game will let me be more sure of what I am doing later in the game...

So, instead of hoping that Supercharazad doesn't spaz out and play better, you are instead voting him to see if it happens.

This is awfully fishy.

How are you going to be more sure of what you're doing later in the game if Supercharazad spazzes out? Why does anything he does have anything to do with you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 07:29:19 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:39:06 pm

And how are you planning on doing that? Do you know how to pressure? If so, why are you not doing it?

I'd rather not draw scum attention (that is, the attention of the scum) too much this early on.  But if you think I can do a better job pressuring, do you have any advice?

Anyway, I'm going to go read through what I missed and see what I can find.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 07:37:01 pm

Welcome everyone!

Jim pretty much stole my intro post, so let me just heartily endorse everything he said.

I'll add that when asking questions and reading the answers, you should not only look at the answer but how the person answered.  Did they get snippy over a simple question?  Are they covering for something?  Did they dither around and not give a straight answer?  More experienced players have learned not to give bad answers to questions- you need to look for questions being answered in a bad way.  Look at the motivations behind people's posts: see if you can find people trying to mislead you or steer you to a certain conclusion.

That said, let's get going!

[And brackets are me explaining my actions in IC mode.]

Tyberix:  If you were scum, what qualities would you want in your scum partner?

[The point of this is mostly to spur discussion, the best thing to go on in the early game.  The more people talk, the better it is for town.  A lurky and inactive town is the scum's best friend.  The question in particular just helps me see how he thinks- useful since I have yet to be in a game with him.  The person you vote at this stage doesn't really matter, but just saying you used random.org to select makes your question look much less serious.]


SaintDraze and Supercharazard:  Your questions are unrelated to the game, so they're worth less.  Also, Super:  Pie, if it's apple.


Lord:  The same as any game, except I'll be much more transparent with what I'm doing each post.  I'm curious to see how it will change, as my first BM game was without playing ICs- I started shortly after they switched.


Painiac:  Did you realize you voted two different people?


Lord:  Now how would Jim know if Japa is a cop?  IC gets no more information than a non-IC.


[I read over the posts since the one I last read (the beginning in this case) and addressed them as I saw ones to me or points that needed addressing.]

Anyway, if you have questions, ask away!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:55:26 pm

That's how I talk...Jim......................................

The way I see it, the game will go two ways, one way is that Super doesn't freak out and ruin the game for town
and the other is a downward spiral of stupid shit...If its going to happen eventually Then why not as soon as possible to see if Super has a cooldown timer for any later games I am in with him...
And It was just a Poke,because
I was Only gauging his reaction...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 08:26:32 pm

Your story contradicts itself in the same post.

You say you want to find out if Supercharazad is going to spaz out because he'll make the game utterly useless for some reason.

And then you say you were gauging his reaction.

Why are you changing your story up?

As a general piece of advice to everybody, stick to the same story. And tell the truth. If you do both of those then you shouldn't have to worry about too much under any questioning.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 08:38:23 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 08:26:32 pm

You say you want to find out if Supercharazad is going to spaz out because he'll make the game utterly useless for some reason.

And then you say you were gauging his reaction.

Why are you changing your story up?

I am sticking to The same story.... I was gauging if he might spazz out and ruin D1 Because of a simple vote and he didn't...
End of story...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 08:54:45 pm

Unvote.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

Suppose super will noob spazz later in this day, and trust me his noobness is a sight to behold, will you be willing to lynch him even if you are not entirely sure he is scum?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

Because A spazzing noob usually ruins the day...and the days that follow if he isn't lynched...

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

I myself see the beginning of d1 as info gathering and Then Finding scum is the main priorit for the rest of the game...

SaintDraze, are you saying that it's better to lynch "a spazzing noob", based on their skill level rather than their scumminess, than scum on Day 1?  Is it because you're scum yourself, and you'd rather agitate someone that could be an easy lynch?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 08:57:00 pm

Also, what do you mean by "spazz", exactly?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 09:05:15 pm

Quote from: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 07:29:19 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:39:06 pm

And how are you planning on doing that? Do you know how to pressure? If so, why are you not doing it?

I'd rather not draw scum attention (that is, the attention of the scum) too much this early on.  But if you think I can do a better job pressuring, do you have any advice?

Anyway, I'm going to go read through what I missed and see what I can find.

Why are you afraid of drawing the scum's attention?


[The reason I ask this is because townies need to be unafraid of death.  An important point some new players miss is that town and scum win as teams:  it doesn't matter if you are alive or dead.  If you get killed in the night, oh well- it (possibly) means the scum was afraid of you, meaning you were doing a good job.  A counter point to this is you shouldn't read too much into who got killed in the night when determining scum- the scum team might take the unexpected path to mislead you.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:11:00 pm

Quote from: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 08:54:45 pm

Unvote.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

Suppose super will noob spazz later in this day, and trust me his noobness is a sight to behold, will you be willing to lynch him even if you are not entirely sure he is scum?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

Because A spazzing noob usually ruins the day...and the days that follow if he isn't lynched...

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

I myself see the beginning of d1 as info gathering and Then Finding scum is the main priorit for the rest of the game...

SaintDraze, are you saying that it's better to lynch "a spazzing noob", based on their skill level rather than their scumminess, than scum on Day 1?  Is it because you're scum yourself, and you'd rather agitate someone that could be an easy lynch?

It certainly seems that way...
I really regret poking the bear now...

by spazzing I mean doing this,"WHY U OMGUSING ME I DIDN'T Do NOthing! !#$@!%!#@$@! U IS SCUM YAEUP YOU IS SCUMMMMM!!! ScUMM SCUMY SCum!!!!!!"

I'd lych someone like that, Even if it mean I was Lynched too... Anything to make sure I don't have to deal with that kind of shit...

Anyhow I thought I had to test Super to test how easy it would be to rile him up.
He's learning alittle.But not much apparantly... Did you see how easy he was, calling me scum because I voted him first? He should have asked why I didn't ask a question with my vote...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 09:28:51 pm

Yeah, okay.

You're probably scum.

Unvote Japa, SaintDraze.

I'll tell you exactly why I think so, so you can work on it and improve.

You voted Supercharazad to try and provoke him into flipping out, with the full intention of pushing him to get lynched over it. So you're not really looking for scum, you're looking for lynches. This is not a townie attitude.

You changed your story by adding mafia jargon you probably don't fully understand yet to it, in the hopes that it would make you look better.

You also just now expressed regret over doing it the moment you received heat for it. Scum, especially new scum, backtrack very quickly over an issue the moment they get any resistance.

I've laid out the accusation. You should probably now attempt a reasonable explanation for your actions. You should also try to scumhunt. The only way anybody looks town in mafia is by actively and aggressively hunting for scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:35:34 pm

Okay then...
F%#!@$ this, going to focus on Kingmaker 4, at least I haven't dug myself into a hole in that game, Let someone else take my place
Replace me please

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 09:38:26 pm

Oh, no you don't.

You don't get to run away just because you get into a little trouble.

You need to stay put.

And learn.

Because I'm going to teach you.

So sit back down in your desk. It's time for your lesson.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 16, 2011, 09:46:28 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 pm

Japa - Minecraft or DF?

That's a very good question. I currently play minecraft more, but I don't have a real preference.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 05:59:59 pm

Japa, you've never played a game of mafia before, right? How would you determine who to inspect at night?

I actually have played a game before, once. I didn't do particularly well, at least in my opinion, and didn't particularly enjoy it. I'm hoping this game will turn out better.

SaintDraze, because, for lack of any better clues, you seem to be causing the most drama here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 09:47:45 pm

Quote from: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 09:05:15 pm

Why are you afraid of drawing the scum's attention?


[The reason I ask this is because townies need to be unafraid of death.  An important point some new players miss is that town and scum win as teams:  it doesn't matter if you are alive or dead.  If you get killed in the night, oh well- it (possibly) means the scum was afraid of you, meaning you were doing a good job.  A counter point to this is you shouldn't read too much into who got killed in the night when determining scum- the scum team might take the unexpected path to mislead you.]

I was stuck on "if I die I can't find the scum, because I can't trust the other townies to do it for me, because I can't trust that the other townies are townies and not scum".  I'll try and remember that.  Can I still get some tips on pressuring, though?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 09:53:39 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 16, 2011, 09:46:28 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 05:59:59 pm

Japa, you've never played a game of mafia before, right? How would you determine who to inspect at night?

I actually have played a game before, once. I didn't do particularly well, at least in my opinion, and didn't particularly enjoy it. I'm hoping this game will turn out better.

That's only part of my question.

As a cop, how would you determine who to inspect?

Also, my first game was incredibly stressful and I vowed to never play the game again after it. It got significantly easier after the first.

Quote from: Japa on February 16, 2011, 09:46:28 pm

SaintDraze, because, for lack of any better clues, you seem to be causing the most drama here.

Just because he's the source of drama doesn't make him scum. So, do you think he's scum?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 16, 2011, 10:00:44 pm

If I was cop, I would inspect people that I find suspicious, but don't have a definite oppinion on.

regardless, however,

I am not a crookcop

As for SaintDraze, it's too early to really tell who's scum, but he seems the most likely to me, at this early point in time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 10:02:32 pm

The natural question I have is why.

Why do you think he's scum?

It is always a good idea to explain why you think somebody is scum. It is never enough to vote them and say you suspect them. Reasons are critical.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 16, 2011, 10:10:28 pm

Unvote.

I was, at first, just following your reasons, but now that I stop and think about it, I don't fully agree with them.

Yes, it's true that he initially provoked Supercharizard to test his reaction, but he backed off as soon as he saw that he seems to be acting better. the rest is just defense from being accused which is pretty natural.

I am now undecided in regards to who the scum might be.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 10:18:36 pm

Quote from: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 09:47:45 pm

I was stuck on "if I die I can't find the scum, because I can't trust the other townies to do it for me, because I can't trust that the other townies are townies and not scum".  I'll try and remember that.  Can I still get some tips on pressuring, though?

Getting over that hump is a good step past being a beginner.  I'm going to suggest Dak's Scumhunting guide (linked in first post) for putting pressure on people, with the caveat that you shouldn't focus on one person at a time.  That's known as tunnelling (a la tunnel vision) and isn't very productive.

[Jim raised an excellent point.  You should always assume every question asked of you has the question "Why?" following it, especially if it's about your suspicions.  Backing up your suspicions with logic and reason is the best way to get them taken seriously.]

Japa:  Jim said this as well, but scum tend to waffle and back off their points when challenged over them.  You did just that.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time, but I'm going to remember it for the future.  In any case, if you're not sure of your points, think twice before posting and acting on them.


[SaintDraze:  This is your chance to learn.  If you want to get better, don't run off when things look a little sour.  Getting a vote or two within the first 24 hours of the game opening is not the end of the world, and can easily be turned around by showing some effort.]


Super:  What do you think of Saint's attempts to rile you up?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 02:48:26 am

What do I think about it? I think it was a pretty bad way of trying to get someone lynched, without knowing or having any evidence about whether I were scum or town..

Currently, I have SaintDraze high on my scum list, but not high enough to vote...yet...

PPE: Oh right, after reading more, SaintDraze wants to quit... Umm... not particularly scummy,but still, he's leaving the minute he is targeted, that's a scumtell

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 03:12:06 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 07:37:01 pm

Tyberix:  If you were scum, what qualities would you want in your scum partner?

First of all i probably  be happy with someone who played few games more than me, aside of that i don't think good scum need any special qualities except double checking what's he's about to post,and certainly he should be active ,lurking scum even if doesn't bring suspicion on themselves can't help the scumpartner in need. What would be your strategy on D1 as scum ?

SaintDraze When i ask question i expect  some honesty in answer and you make it hard :

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

To answer your question,
Ogg Uoog, maybe yes, I would like to see some defensivness, or someone asking what scumtells I would want to see so as to know Which ones to specifically avoid,As for bandwagons I would try to do what painiac did In king maker 4, Only, you know, Good? (he tried to deflect attention onto another person who did not have much experiance...) as for the double vote, Its just two votes, it won't be a problem unless it snowballs...

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:35:34 pm

Okay then...
F%#!@$ this, going to focus on Kingmaker 4, at least I haven't dug myself into a hole in that game, Let someone else take my place
Replace me please

And really i don't see the problem in having even 4 or 5 votes as town at this stage,unless you feel you know who is scum and want to prove it as fast as possible. Or there's option in which you're scum.

Japa Why you're suddenly change you're opinion on SaintDraze ? Are you afraid of being accused of bandwagoning ? Also claiming town is suspicious, that's the role everyone know you could be but telling that you look like you need outside confirmation on that - that's scummy.

Akivara Do you think posting your thoughts on nightkill reason is bad or good idea ? ( on D2 i mean)

 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 04:14:05 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 03:12:06 am

Japa Why you're suddenly change you're opinion on SaintDraze ? Are you afraid of being accused of bandwagoning ? Also claiming town is suspicious, that's the role everyone know you could be but telling that you look like you need outside confirmation on that - that's scummy.

It wasn't a sudden change of opinion. I'm still suspicious of him, but not enough to vote for him just yet. While I was bandwagoning initially, when asked to explain myself, it forced me to think through my reasons for voting for him, and after further thought, I realized that some of those reasons weren't very good ones. I admit, I was hasty in my initial voting, but my stance is still firm.

As for stating that I'm town, I didn't specifically say that. I was mangling a Richard Nixon quote to say that I'm not a cop, which somebody was implying that I might be.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 06:50:39 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 07:16:09 pm

Painiac How would you choose doc target ,if you were one, on N1 ?

I would do scumhunt of course, and guess who is scum. It's always two people less to choose from. Next, I would try to guess which person is most agressive, experienced pro-town. Then next, wifom ensues. If scum is sly? Or want to kill most dangerous threat? Do he suspect that town has doc? Hell. I would probably not drink wine, and protect most pro-town guy anyway. Loss of less useful townie wouldn't hurt that much.

Quote from: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 07:37:01 pm

Painiac:  Did you realize you voted two different people?

Yes, I had realized that already. I forgot I can use FoS thing. So, I FoS-ed SaintDraze already.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:11:00 pm

It certainly seems that way...
I really regret poking the bear now...

by spazzing I mean doing this,"WHY U OMGUSING ME I DIDN'T Do NOthing! !#$@!%!#@$@! U IS SCUM YAEUP YOU IS SCUMMMMM!!! ScUMM SCUMY SCum!!!!!!"

I'd lych someone like that, Even if it mean I was Lynched too... Anything to make sure I don't have to deal with that kind of shit...

Anyhow I thought I had to test Super to test how easy it would be to rile him up.
He's learning alittle.But not much apparantly... Did you see how easy he was, calling me scum because I voted him first? He should have asked why I didn't ask a question with my vote...

You regret poking a bear? So, you regret it because of eventual attack from him. It sounds scummy to me. I don't think that townie should regret any scumhunt. Attack is part of the game. Are you scared of pressure? And I have impression you are scapegoating him here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 06:53:43 am

Well, webadict has counted my vote on him, so it is good anyway, because I started to seriously suspect him.

For the sake of stating my position clear:

unvote Akivara
vote SaintDraze

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 07:33:38 am

Quote from: Japa on February 16, 2011, 09:46:28 pm

SaintDraze, because, for lack of any better clues, you seem to be causing the most drama here.

FoS, Japa. As everyone said before, you didn't stated your arguments. It looks like bandwagoning.

Quote from: Japa on February 16, 2011, 10:10:28 pm

Unvote.

I was, at first, just following your reasons, but now that I stop and think about it, I don't fully agree with them.

Why? State why you changed your arguments. It looks like you jumped off from him when Jim had put pressure on you. It is scummy thing to do.

Quote from: Japa on February 17, 2011, 04:14:05 am

While I was bandwagoning initially, when asked to explain myself, it forced me to think through my reasons for voting for him, and after further thought, I realized that some of those reasons weren't very good ones. I admit, I was hasty in my initial voting, but my stance is still firm.

State these reasons. Carefully, one after another, if you may. You talk in roundabout way. I have impression you are avoiding question here.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 17, 2011, 07:57:29 am

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Tyberix, lordnincompoop, Painiac, Akivara, Jim Groovester,
Akivara -
Japa -
Tyberix - Toaster,
supercharazad -
Painiac - SaintDraze,
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - supercharazad, Japa,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 08:01:11 am

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 07:33:38 am

Quote from: Japa on February 16, 2011, 09:46:28 pm

SaintDraze, because, for lack of any better clues, you seem to be causing the most drama here.

FoS, Japa. As everyone said before, you didn't stated your arguments. It looks like bandwagoning.

I initially was following the logic of this post here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 09:28:51 pm

Yeah, okay.

You're probably scum.

Unvote Japa, SaintDraze.

I'll tell you exactly why I think so, so you can work on it and improve.

You voted Supercharazad to try and provoke him into flipping out, with the full intention of pushing him to get lynched over it. So you're not really looking for scum, you're looking for lynches. This is not a townie attitude.

You changed your story by adding mafia jargon you probably don't fully understand yet to it, in the hopes that it would make you look better.

You also just now expressed regret over doing it the moment you received heat for it. Scum, especially new scum, backtrack very quickly over an issue the moment they get any resistance.

I've laid out the accusation. You should probably now attempt a reasonable explanation for your actions. You should also try to scumhunt. The only way anybody looks town in mafia is by actively and aggressively hunting for scum.

They looked, at first glance, like good reasons, and because this is the first turn, we don't have all that much to go on, so I went with it.

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 07:33:38 am

Quote from: Japa on February 16, 2011, 10:10:28 pm

Unvote.

I was, at first, just following your reasons, but now that I stop and think about it, I don't fully agree with them.

Why? State why you changed your arguments. It looks like you jumped off from him when Jim had put pressure on you. It is scummy thing to do.

Quote

You voted Supercharazad to try and provoke him into flipping out, with the full intention of pushing him to get lynched over it. So you're not really looking for scum, you're looking for lynches. This is not a townie attitude.

This can be a scum attitude, or, more likely, he really does have a problem with Super over-reacting previously, and wants to get that out of the way while we're still in the beginning of the game.

Quote

You changed your story by adding mafia jargon you probably don't fully understand yet to it, in the hopes that it would make you look better.

Can't really say anything for or against this argument, really. I'm just as new and don't know the jargon either.

Quote

You also just now expressed regret over doing it the moment you received heat for it. Scum, especially new scum, backtrack very quickly over an issue the moment they get any resistance.

This works just as well for new townies that, while they know they're not scum, have no way to prove it. (I know the feeling well)

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 07:33:38 am

Quote from: Japa on February 17, 2011, 04:14:05 am

While I was bandwagoning initially, when asked to explain myself, it forced me to think through my reasons for voting for him, and after further thought, I realized that some of those reasons weren't very good ones. I admit, I was hasty in my initial voting, but my stance is still firm.

State these reasons. Carefully, one after another, if you may. You talk in roundabout way. I have impression you are avoiding question here.

I've outlines my reasons for no longer thinking that SaintDraze is scum, but I don't have a better candidate, so while he remains high on my list of suspects, I don't suspect him enough to confidently vote for him to be taken down.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 08:36:01 am

You are pretty much piggyriding on Jim arguments now. And try to defend SaintDraze here, saying that he is simply acting newbishly, not like scum. While SaintDraze had done extra-scum thing - giving up and saying to replace him. Townie would defend himself, and tried to prove his aligment, by scumhunting for example. It looks like you are trying to defend your scumbuddy.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 09:07:29 am

You asked why I changed my mind. the answer is simple, I did initially piggyback on Jim's reasons, but backed off after thinking about them more. you asked why I backed off, I explained, stating why I don't fully agree with each of those reasons given. I'm not defending him, I'm simply stating my reasons for unvoting, until I have sufficient reason to vote for somebody.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 09:15:49 am

Super:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 02:48:26 am

What do I think about it? I think it was a pretty bad way of trying to get someone lynched, without knowing or having any evidence about whether I were scum or town..

Currently, I have SaintDraze high on my scum list, but not high enough to vote...yet...

PPE: Oh right, after reading more, SaintDraze wants to quit... Umm... not particularly scummy,but still, he's leaving the minute he is targeted, that's a scumtell

So who is high enough on your list to vote?

[Asking people to clarify their suspicions is a good way to detect their motives behind them.]



Japa, same question to you.  You say:

Quote from: Japa on February 17, 2011, 08:01:11 am

I've outlines my reasons for no longer thinking that SaintDraze is scum, but I don't have a better candidate, so while he remains high on my list of suspects, I don't suspect him enough to confidently vote for him to be taken down.

Fair enough, but you are not pressuring anyone else.  After you move off that vote, you don't move anywhere else- no votes, no questions.  How are you going to decide who is scum if you're pushing no one?

[Early on, it's easy to lose your initial suspicion and be at a loss as to who to attack.  The easy choice here is to just take a "wait and see" approach and see what comes out, but that's not the best option- it leads to stagnation.  The better plan is to continue asking questions.  If you have even a slight question mark next to someone, get them talking!  It's the best way to confirm or clear your suspicion of them.]


Tyberix:

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 03:12:06 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 07:37:01 pm

Tyberix:  If you were scum, what qualities would you want in your scum partner?

First of all i probably  be happy with someone who played few games more than me, aside of that i don't think good scum need any special qualities except double checking what's he's about to post,and certainly he should be active ,lurking scum even if doesn't bring suspicion on themselves can't help the scumpartner in need. What would be your strategy on D1 as scum ?

Noted on answer.

My D1 scum strategy is pretty much the same as my D1 town strategy- find people who are scummy and get them lynched.  I would assess the players and their positions to determine who is a threat and who is a scapegoat.

Unvote Tyberix.  [He answered my RV question fine, so there's no reason to keep voting him.]



Lord:  Your vote is on SaintDraze from way back in RV.  Do you still find him voteworthy or have your suspicions of him changed?


[Sometimes you'll see scum never move their initial RV vote.  It's a tell that they don't really care about their vote and just want to see someone hang.  It's fine if he truly thinks SaintDraze is scum, but I'm getting him to clarify.  Remember- town wants to find scum.  Scum just wants to hang people.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 17, 2011, 09:32:03 am

Quote from: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 07:29:19 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:39:06 pm

And how are you planning on doing that? Do you know how to pressure? If so, why are you not doing it?

I'd rather not draw scum attention (that is, the attention of the scum) too much this early on.  But if you think I can do a better job pressuring, do you have any advice?

Anyway, I'm going to go read through what I missed and see what I can find.

Why not? As town, our job is to hunt, not to survive. If we die, will simply win with the rest.

I haven't seen you pressure, so I can't comment on that yet.

Quote from: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 07:37:01 pm

Lord:  Now how would Jim know if Japa is a cop?  IC gets no more information than a non-IC.

He wouldn't, other than via deduction. I think it's far too early for any role to pop up.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

Because A spazzing noob usually ruins the day...and the days that follow if he isn't lynched...
I voted super because I wanted to see if he'd spazz out so I would kinda know what to expect...
as for asking that question, I already got a satisfactory answer...
and I Take it as a yes, If super does spazz LP's going to lynch vote him...
Unless of course someone roleclaims godfather...

Wait.... Oh shit, My bad then Book...
Annnd there goes most of my Mentionable reasons for how I scum pick people...
Shit...

Well I think false roleclaims just postpone the inevitable, True roleclaims have a tendancy to rush nights
and claiming scum is just hilariously stupid...

And jim, I don't want super to spazz, But testing super to see if he does spazz this early in the game will let me be more sure of what I am doing later in the game...

I myself see the beginning of d1 as info gathering and Then Finding scum is the main priorit for the rest of the game...

You shouldn't vote a person just to see them spazz out. The reason you vote is to pressure and hunt scum, not to poke noobs and hurt your team.

If you don't want him to "spazz", then don't force him to. This playing against your team, which is very suspicious in my eyes.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:55:26 pm

That's how I talk...Jim......................................

The way I see it, the game will go two ways, one way is that Super doesn't freak out and ruin the game for town
and the other is a downward spiral of stupid shit...If its going to happen eventually Then why not as soon as possible to see if Super has a cooldown timer for any later games I am in with him...
And It was just a Poke,because
I was Only gauging his reaction...

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:11:00 pm

It certainly seems that way...
I really regret poking the bear now...

by spazzing I mean doing this,"WHY U OMGUSING ME I DIDN'T Do NOthing! !#$@!%!#@$@! U IS SCUM YAEUP YOU IS SCUMMMMM!!! ScUMM SCUMY SCum!!!!!!"

I'd lych someone like that, Even if it mean I was Lynched too... Anything to make sure I don't have to deal with that kind of shit...

Anyhow I thought I had to test Super to test how easy it would be to rile him up.
He's learning alittle.But not much apparantly... Did you see how easy he was, calling me scum because I voted him first? He should have asked why I didn't ask a question with my vote...

You're backtracking rather quickly, aren't you?

We're here to lynch scum and learn, not execute stupid people. In fact, the BM games are here to teach those stupid people.

SaintDraze, you're acting extremely suspicious, and quite frankly it's not surprising to see you on somebody's scumlist. That does not make it an OMGUS.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:35:34 pm

Okay then...
F%#!@$ this, going to focus on Kingmaker 4, at least I haven't dug myself into a hole in that game, Let someone else take my place
Replace me please

You can't just give up whenever you run into trouble. This is an awful habit, and you won't learn if you keep doing this.

No matter how deep the hole is, there's a way out. If you refuse to do so, you'll die in it even if it's only knee deep.

Quote from: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 09:15:49 am

Lord:  Your vote is on SaintDraze from way back in RV.  Do you still find him voteworthy or have your suspicions of him changed?

Buh, sorry I've been procrastinating on this game too long. I maintain my vote, because he's just been acting worse, as you can see above.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 10:34:02 am

Few more questions about powerroles:

Toaster If you would be doc and succeed in protecting someone N1 would you claim next day ? That question is bugging me because i see both good and bad sides of it.

Painiac How would you approach cop claim ?

lordincompoop How you know that SaintDraze's assault on Supercharazad is "playing against own team " ? You know their alignments ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 10:39:55 am

Okay web has convinced me to-
Wait I caused drama?
Didn't mean to do that... I was just hoping Ottofar would just slip in and replace me, Partly nullifying my stupid ass mistake.
But web told me He would probably be lynched because of me...

I poked Super Because I'd rather him spazz out early in the game if at all... He didn't spazz out, giving me less reason to worry about him doing it...

The reason That I wanted to be replaced is that I don't want town to lose, Thus If I get replaced that means a More experienced player is town...Town would have benefitted from a More experienced player then me...

I cancel my replace request then...

Now Painiac

You are accusing someone of pig backing?
I really think the only one doing that here is you.
You accuse me of cause drama, which japa said not so long before you posted that accusation.


I don't regret poking the bear because super attacked me... because he didn't really attack me...
I regret it because It was a stupid mistake...

You are being rather aggressive accusing anyone that has a doubt of me being scum of being my scum buddy...

That won't help you at all if I wind up getting lynched...

I think that You also have yet to answer my question...

What Do you think I meant by Poke the bear when I voted super at the start?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 17, 2011, 10:45:38 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 10:34:02 am

lordincompoop How you know that SaintDraze's assault on Supercharazad is "playing against own team " ? You know their alignments ?

Knowing their alignments doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the intent.

SaintDraze is voting out Super not because he believes Super is scum, but because he feels Super will "spazz" later on. This is playing against his own team because he is trying to lynch (relatively) unsuspected town instead of lynching scum, which is what we're supposed to do.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 10:39:55 am

Now Painiac

...

You are being rather aggressive accusing anyone that has a doubt of me being scum of being my scum buddy...

SaintDraze, stop fabricating information. Painiac's done that one, not several times.

"That won't help you at all if I wind up getting lynched..."? What is this even supposed to mean? Do I detect blackmail?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 11:25:16 am

Lord:  Fair enough regarding SaintDraze.


Tyberix:  Tricky question.  It'd largely depend on the game and the size of it.  Assuming this game, I'd probably not claim D2 and hope I could repeat the feat N2.  I'd try to drop a hint during the day that I thought the person was town- if I died, it'd hopefully confirm them as townie.  If the person I saved was headed for a lynch, I would claim to save them.

If D3 was LYLO and that person was still alive, I'd claim then.


Painiac:  Beware of using associative tells (Player A is scum because of their interaction with Player B!) before the person you're associating with has died and flipped alignment.  You're relying on your attack on the first player being right without knowing for sure.  You're mostly in the clear here because your vote is on your primary suspicion, but you should keep that in mind.


Supercharazad:  I reread your posts, and a couple things bug me.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 pm

SaintDraze - Why did you vote me before the game even began? Are you looking to lynch a townie? Are you scum?

This is a defensive reaction to a random vote.  Yes, you got the first RV of the game.  That's no reason to get upset.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 02:48:26 am

What do I think about it? I think it was a pretty bad way of trying to get someone lynched, without knowing or having any evidence about whether I were scum or town..

Currently, I have SaintDraze high on my scum list, but not high enough to vote...yet...

PPE: Oh right, after reading more, SaintDraze wants to quit... Umm... not particularly scummy,but still, he's leaving the minute he is targeted, that's a scumtell

This doesn't really take a firm stand on the issue.  Do you think Saint is scum?  If so, why?  (In your own words)  If not, who is?


[This is a pretty standard post.  I'm responding to questions and starting an attack on a player.  I usually try to spread my focus early on, and go after multiple angles.  Once I'm really sure, I'll narrow down and go after that player, but I still keep my eye open and look at others.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 11:29:25 am

Okay, un-FoS Japa. While there was some scummy things, your talk sounds good overall. Good luck on scumhunt, then.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 10:34:02 am

Painiac How would you approach cop claim ?

That's good question. Good ol' scumhunt should tell me overall who is pro-town. If pro-town guy declares it, and show copcheck of some anti-town guy, then it's quite simple. I can , and will do, always scumhunt target of cop-check, and cop. Yea, it works in two ways. I can scumhunt cop, but targets of his copchecks are also good. Who is more towny overall, then that someone tells truth.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 10:39:55 am

Painiac

You are accusing someone of pig backing?
I really think the only one doing that here is you.
You accuse me of cause drama, which japa said not so long before you posted that accusation.


I don't regret poking the bear because super attacked me... because he didn't really attack me...
I regret it because It was a stupid mistake...

You are being rather aggressive accusing anyone that has a doubt of me being scum of being my scum buddy...

That won't help you at all if I wind up getting lynched...

I think that You also have yet to answer my question...

What Do you think I meant by Poke the bear when I voted super at the start?

Japa stated this himself? Then he's somehow contradict himself, accusing you of drama, yet stating you are probably not scum, but newbie. I would say this to him if I would see him typing that. So, it proves that I hadn't piggyriding there.

Well I admit he didn't really attacked you. I can understand you regret that because everybody suspect you now. Sounds ok.

Scumhunt is supossed to be aggresive. Look, he conviced me, and I'm not FoS-ing him now. I'm feeling some chainsawing here to protect him instead... Well, okay, if he is scum, I can always press him at another time.

Oh, blackmail town now? That's another scumtell to collection.

Well, I answered that question already.

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:27:40 pm

SaintDraze: well, I'm getting this vibe you are some sort of buddies, so it's natural, then. Something with Kingmaker? Well, you maybe want to check if he had learned anything from there.

Well, you wanted to check, if he will do something like OMGUS, or stay calm and answer.

Jim Groovester: what do you think about day shortening?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 11:58:37 am

No It's not blackmail -_-...
If I am town and I get lynched the one most supportive of my lynching is usually the next person questioned right?
well the I think out of all you voting me the most eager of all of you is painiac...

I kinda skimmed the posts...Thought I saw him accusing some one as being scum partner to me....
I'l get to reading it in detail after this post...

and did super just post a reasonable post?
:O Good job super you might not be the most likely first lynch after all =D

He isn't voting me? really?
I thought he would vote me... wonder why not...
Super
Why so reasonable and reserved? This is such a drastic change from your last two games...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 11:59:21 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 09:15:49 am

Super:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 02:48:26 am

What do I think about it? I think it was a pretty bad way of trying to get someone lynched, without knowing or having any evidence about whether I were scum or town..

Currently, I have SaintDraze high on my scum list, but not high enough to vote...yet...

PPE: Oh right, after reading more, SaintDraze wants to quit... Umm... not particularly scummy,but still, he's leaving the minute he is targeted, that's a scumtell

So who is high enough on your list to vote?

[Asking people to clarify their suspicions is a good way to detect their motives behind them.]

Currently, I'm going to vote Saint the second he messes up again.


Toaster: Yes, I got the first red vote, but I voting on the very first post of the game... That's scummy. I DO believe Saint is scum, but I want to make sure before I vote.





FoS SaintDraze: SaintDraze, did you have any reason to vote me at the beginning other than to provoke me?

I am usually a reasonable and reserved person, I just got excited previously.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:07:46 pm

It's RVS

And yes I may have been provoking you but It was more of a test then a taunt...
The past two games you were in were more then "excitement" super, It was being a bad player.
This is such a drastic change that I think you are satisfied with whatever role you got...
And you just want to let everyone question each other and only answer questions posed to you...
[color,Red]Supercharazad[/color]

Now I think your scum...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 12:09:21 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 11:58:37 am

No It's not blackmail -_-...
If I am town and I get lynched the one most supportive of my lynching is usually the next person questioned right?
well the I think out of all you voting me the most eager of all of you is painiac...

So, you threatening me now? If you will turn up townie, I will be persecuted? While you are maybe true, it is weird thing to said to townie. My survival is not my main target, I'm winning with team anyway. Yea, it would be bad to waste lynch over me, so I would bite and scumhunt with all my might. But survival isn't my main target. Yet, if you are scum, I can understand why survival is important to you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 12:14:44 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:07:46 pm

It's RVS

And yes I may have been provoking you but It was more of a test then a taunt...
The past two games you were in were more then "excitement" super, It was being a bad player.
This is such a drastic change that I think you are satisfied with whatever role you got...
And you just want to let everyone question each other and only answer questions posed to you...
[color,Red]Supercharazad[/color]

Now I think your scum...

Ah, I see. From what I can tell easily from your actions:

You want me lynched (RV on first post, attempting to create an OMGUS situation)
You are scum (General scummyness, I think everyone knows what I'm talking about)
You were excited when you did not see me vote you (Realised you made a mistake, thought you were off the hook)


I had doubts, but now they have fallen away and died, for these reasons, I am sorry to say:

Vote: SaintDraze

I will not stop until you are lynched, You have confirmed yourself as scum in my eyes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 12:47:12 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 12:14:44 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:07:46 pm

It's RVS

And yes I may have been provoking you but It was more of a test then a taunt...
The past two games you were in were more then "excitement" super, It was being a bad player.
This is such a drastic change that I think you are satisfied with whatever role you got...
And you just want to let everyone question each other and only answer questions posed to you...
[color,Red]Supercharazad[/color]

Now I think your scum...

Ah, I see. From what I can tell easily from your actions:

You want me lynched (RV on first post, attempting to create an OMGUS situation)
You are scum (General scummyness, I think everyone knows what I'm talking about)
You were excited when you did not see me vote you (Realised you made a mistake, thought you were off the hook)


I had doubts, but now they have fallen away and died, for these reasons, I am sorry to say:

Vote: SaintDraze

I will not stop until you are lynched, You have confirmed yourself as scum in my eyes.

Maybe it will look like SaintDraze defense but this post is full of scummtells..
1.RV on first post is nothing serious
2.Very clear,and adding seriousness to your assault ? It's opposite - clear OMGUS.
3.WIFOMy speculations ?
4.Sorry to attack someone who you find scum ?
5.Nothing will change this ? That's tunnel vision if not scummy.
6.Confirmed is bad wording for that

So Supercharazad please rephrase that if you can.

SaintDraze What's the reason you vote him besides his actions in OTHER games ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:58:14 pm

No, I am not threatening you, I'm sure you could take the pressure By shifting blame to another townie...
::)


Calm down. Think clearly.
Don't want anyone spazzing out now do we?

And super, please don't spazz out...
>,.<
Tyberix, Thats pretty much my only reason...
It's not a good reason then?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 01:09:48 pm

Ok, this is weird. You suggest I should accuse someone other without real base? Hell, you even say there ,,townie" instead ,,suspected" or something like that. It's like you don't care which person will be accused, which is scummy.

And you again think in scum way. Someone other pressuring me in scumhunt is something normal. We have to deal with it, because that someone simply try to scumhunt on us. We have to respect their tries and answer honestly. Yet I can understand why you are feeling uncomfortable if you are really scum.

And no. If he is newbie in other games, it is not valid argument. We want to hunt scums, not newbies.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 01:12:11 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 12:14:44 pm

Ah, I see. From what I can tell easily from your actions:

You want me lynched (RV on first post, attempting to create an OMGUS situation)
You are scum (General scummyness, I think everyone knows what I'm talking about)
You were excited when you did not see me vote you (Realised you made a mistake, thought you were off the hook)

Your first two points do not hold water.

1.  Random Vote Stage.  There is no problem with voting people on your first post to get their attention.  Calling it scummy is not a good plan.  For example, why are you not calling out everyone else who voted on their first post?

2.  You can't just say "Isn't it obvious?"  You need to back up your statement with reasons and preferably links/quotes.  It doesn't matter if everyone else has said it- we want to hear it from you.


Finally, I'd like you to explain your first point more- I don't really understand it.


[Also, be very careful when bringing up other games.  Specifically, if it's a game that is not over, don't talk about it outside of the relevant thread.  It's poor form, and often against the rules of said game.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 01:17:00 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 12:47:12 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 12:14:44 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:07:46 pm

It's RVS

And yes I may have been provoking you but It was more of a test then a taunt...
The past two games you were in were more then "excitement" super, It was being a bad player.
This is such a drastic change that I think you are satisfied with whatever role you got...
And you just want to let everyone question each other and only answer questions posed to you...
[color,Red]Supercharazad[/color]

Now I think your scum...

Ah, I see. From what I can tell easily from your actions:

You want me lynched (RV on first post, attempting to create an OMGUS situation)
You are scum (General scummyness, I think everyone knows what I'm talking about)
You were excited when you did not see me vote you (Realised you made a mistake, thought you were off the hook)


I had doubts, but now they have fallen away and died, for these reasons, I am sorry to say:

Vote: SaintDraze

I will not stop until you are lynched, You have confirmed yourself as scum in my eyes.

Maybe it will look like SaintDraze defense but this post is full of scummtells..
1.RV on first post is nothing serious
2.Very clear,and adding seriousness to your assault ? It's opposite - clear OMGUS.
3.WIFOMy speculations ?
4.Sorry to attack someone who you find scum ?
5.Nothing will change this ? That's tunnel vision if not scummy.
6.Confirmed is bad wording for that

So Supercharazad please rephrase that if you can.

SaintDraze What's the reason you vote him besides his actions in OTHER games ?

RV on first post is annoying though, especially with no reason, where did FoS go?

Clear OMGUS? That's exactly why I voted him. Because he seemed to be voting me so as I could not vote him without making an OMGUS, except I didn't vote him just because he voted me, I voted him for many reasons.

WIOFMey speculations? They are not intended to be, that is simply what I can see from his posts.

I'm not "sorry to attack him", the I'm sorry bit is sort of an "I didn;t want to do this, but...", because I didn't want to vote him, because I wasn't totally convinced he was scum.

How is it scummy? It's what every source so far has told me to do, push and make sure they think you won't stop until they are lynched.

I said, "confirmed scum in my eyes", saying that I know he is scum, and very little can change that.




Saintdraze, that was not a good reason, in fact, it is a pretty stupid reason. You want me to get angry and annoyed at you, therefore making mistakes, so you cram insults into your posts, all directed at me. It isn't working :/
I'm not spazzing out, in fact, I voted you for multile perfectly reasonable reasons. It is you who tends to "spazz out" and get VERY defensive whenever you are called scum, which is rather scummy.



SaintDraze: What reasons did you have to vote me, other than just trying to get at me from past games?

Toaster:To explain my first point a bit more, let's look at his vote on me just there now. He voted for no reason, voting is not for prodding, that's why there is an FoS. He seems to know I was going to vote him, so he voted me to make my vote seem like an OMGUS, when I had perfectly valid reasons to vote him, whereas his reasons are invalid.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 01:25:04 pm

Super I haven't insulted you...

chill out.

I already town tyberix the answer to that question...
I only voted you only because of the past games you were in...
other than that its pretty much a random vote...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 02:02:23 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 01:25:04 pm

Super I haven't insulted you...

chill out.

I already town tyberix the answer to that question...
I only voted you only because of the past games you were in...
other than that its pretty much a random vote...

"Supernoob"
"don't spazz out"
"ultranoob"

All things you have said about me, with intent to anger me.


Random votes are NOT a good thing, it's actually very scummy, as scum won't want to do a proper scumhunt, instead, they'll fling excuses, insults and in the case of the smart ones, try to hide it.

My vote stands.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 02:10:54 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 02:02:23 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 01:25:04 pm

Super I haven't insulted you...

chill out.

I already town tyberix the answer to that question...
I only voted you only because of the past games you were in...
other than that its pretty much a random vote...

"Don't Spazz out"
"Supernoob"
"ultranoob"

All things you have said about me, with intent to anger me.

But supernoob fit's your name so well! :3
"Don't spazz out" was a request, Because Spazzing out will not get anything done...
And I am sorry for calling you an ultra noob...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 02:19:48 pm

Right, this is becming mindless bullshit now, it's time to do some scumhunting!

Something to get people talking... AH!

Tyberix: Who are your current scumpicks?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 17, 2011, 09:41:51 pm

Supercharazad, I have no idea what you're talking about. Walk me through your argument of why you suspect SaintDraze.

Why did you take so long to vote him? The moment you thought he was scum was the moment you should've voted him. Any waiting on your part is scummy,

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 03:12:06 am

Akivara Do you think posting your thoughts on nightkill reason is bad or good idea ? ( on D2 i mean)

It's not necessarily scummy to talk about them but it's completely useless. Since it's nearly impossible to know what the scum were thinking when they chose the target, there's nothing to learn by trying to guess the motives behind it.

Tracking down scum through the nightkill is a quick town loss.

Quote from: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 09:15:49 am

[Early on, it's easy to lose your initial suspicion and be at a loss as to who to attack.  The easy choice here is to just take a "wait and see" approach and see what comes out, but that's not the best option- it leads to stagnation.  The better plan is to continue asking questions.  If you have even a slight question mark next to someone, get them talking!  It's the best way to confirm or clear your suspicion of them.]

I'll just echo this for emphasis.

Ask about everything. Even if something looks odd and not necessarily suspicious, ask about it. You might catch scum for it.

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 08:36:01 am

You are pretty much piggyriding on Jim arguments now. And try to defend SaintDraze here, saying that he is simply acting newbishly, not like scum. While SaintDraze had done extra-scum thing - giving up and saying to replace him. Townie would defend himself, and tried to prove his aligment, by scumhunting for example. It looks like you are trying to defend your scumbuddy.

And you're also piggybacking on my arguments. The only reason you bothered Japa is because I did.

Yes, I am going to teach you how to play, and also criticize you for it. You should take the substance of my argument to heart, but not the target of it.

In this case, you think Japa is scummy because of how he quickly voted and withdrew. Does his explanations satisfy you? That's the question you need to ask after you get an answer. I won't tell you whether they satisfy me, because I'm afraid you'll just agree with me without question.

And then reading on, apparently you are satisfied with them. No problems here, then.

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 11:29:25 am

Jim Groovester: what do you think about day shortening?

If there's good discussion going on there's no reason to shorten the day. Shortens are almost exclusively used when there is a clear, definitive scum candidate who can do nothing to save himself.

Right now, a shorten would be inappropriate.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 17, 2011, 10:05:45 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Tyberix, lordnincompoop, Painiac, Akivara, Jim Groovester, supercharazad,
Akivara -
Japa -
Tyberix -
supercharazad - Toaster,
Painiac - SaintDraze,
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Japa,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 10:58:28 pm

Supercharazard:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 01:17:00 pm

Toaster:To explain my first point a bit more, let's look at his vote on me just there now. He voted for no reason, voting is not for prodding, that's why there is an FoS. He seems to know I was going to vote him, so he voted me to make my vote seem like an OMGUS, when I had perfectly valid reasons to vote him, whereas his reasons are invalid.

Most people disagree with that- the first votes are attached to questions to get the game started.  It's just standard procedure here at B12.  You don't have to vote someone, but you can't get mad at someone doing it to you- it's just how it's played here.

Given that, if he hadn't voted you and just asked you a question, do you think you would be voting him now?  If not him, then who?


Japa:  Why are you not voting?  Who do you suspect?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Akivara on February 18, 2011, 12:28:02 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 03:12:06 am

Akivara Do you think posting your thoughts on nightkill reason is bad or good idea ? ( on D2 i mean)

Bad idea.  There's several reasons to NK someone, and trying to guess which one will just lead to confusion.

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 17, 2011, 09:32:03 am

Quote from: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 07:29:19 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:39:06 pm

And how are you planning on doing that? Do you know how to pressure? If so, why are you not doing it?

I'd rather not draw scum attention (that is, the attention of the scum) too much this early on.  But if you think I can do a better job pressuring, do you have any advice?

Anyway, I'm going to go read through what I missed and see what I can find.

Why not? As town, our job is to hunt, not to survive. If we die, will simply win with the rest.

I believe I answered this already.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 17, 2011, 09:41:51 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 03:12:06 am

Akivara Do you think posting your thoughts on nightkill reason is bad or good idea ? ( on D2 i mean)

It's not necessarily scummy to talk about them but it's completely useless. Since it's nearly impossible to know what the scum were thinking when they chose the target, there's nothing to learn by trying to guess the motives behind it.

Tracking down scum through the nightkill is a quick town loss.

Why would you answer a question directed to me, Jim?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 18, 2011, 12:32:32 am

I gave my expert opinion on a common pitfall for new players before it came up.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 18, 2011, 06:25:50 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 17, 2011, 09:41:51 pm

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 08:36:01 am

You are pretty much piggyriding on Jim arguments now. And try to defend SaintDraze here, saying that he is simply acting newbishly, not like scum. While SaintDraze had done extra-scum thing - giving up and saying to replace him. Townie would defend himself, and tried to prove his aligment, by scumhunting for example. It looks like you are trying to defend your scumbuddy.

And you're also piggybacking on my arguments. The only reason you bothered Japa is because I did.

Not really. I would bother him about this anyway without your suggestion. I was simply second person to post this after you, I see Tyberix also asked him before me. So it means I piggyraided on the same argument when I was simply late to post? Not really, again.

lordnincompoop: If you would be cop, would you roleclaim? If yes, in which circumstances?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 09:52:44 am

Alright I yam up naow...
Saw the saddest movie ever and couldn't play mafia that Night...(It was Pixars UP)

Still see that I am going to be lynched... -_-

Might as well state my scumpicks...
Supercharazad, Who began the day reserved and cautious, And then became drastically "Excited" because I asked him about it...


He Is probably just trying to be better and I am ruining for him, or a newb that is Satisfied with being scum who ,When accused of being scum because of it, Became A tolerable degree of "Excited" to make it look like he is playing town by playing the way he usually is...

Unvote Painiac
Supercharazad
Oh hey I found out how to use color format on the mac! =D


Btw, Shouldn't I have been lynched by Now? almost ever single vote is on me Except japa toaster and myself.

Japa and toaster Know that I am town even though I am being really scummy...
That's kinda suspicious... :\
Toaster& Japa
Kindly state, Or restate if you already said your reason, why you decided not to vote me?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 18, 2011, 11:31:47 am

Well, if this game would have hammer type of voting, then yes. But in our case, it is time limit - Monday 9 PM, if I'm not mistaken. We can eventually shorten that, but I don't see why we should.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: webadict on February 18, 2011, 11:34:46 am

There are no hammers in BM.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 11:48:36 am

mainly because many of us are still new at this whole finding faults with people and questioning them, and need practice.

Quote from: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 10:58:28 pm

Japa:  Why are you not voting?  Who do you suspect?

I am still unsure of who to vote for, and want to make sure I know my reasons before I do.

Painiac, why are you asking to shorten the day? do you know something about Saint that we don't?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 11:53:38 am

I vote for shorten because I'm getting bored of waiting for something to happen, and some others seem to be thinking about it too.


Jim: Ah, alright, waiting to vote seems scummy, I'll remember that. My argument to vote SaintDraze is that almost everything he does seems scummy to me, I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that he is scum. (Example, voting me so as I couldn't vote him without an OMGUS accusation)

SaintDraze: How the hell is UP sad? (well, the start is pretty sad, I guess)

Japa: As Jim said, waiting to vote seems scummy, why not vote whoever you deem most suspucious at the time? Or is that person SaintDraze, and you are afraid of being accuesed of bandwagoning?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 11:59:49 am

Ech, I may as well.

SaintDraze is either scum, or a terrible townie. either way, I'm voting for him. I don't think it's necessary to repeat the reason's that everybody else has given.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 18, 2011, 12:02:47 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 18, 2011, 11:48:36 am

Painiac, why are you asking to shorten the day? do you know something about Saint that we don't?

No, not really. It was rather bait. If Jim would say we should shorten a day, it would be somewhat scummy and suspicious. Well, it was obvious, but it never hurts to try. And Jim provided some useful information instead, so it was win-win question to ask. If you ask me, I'm thinking about extending instead.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 12:08:03 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 18, 2011, 11:59:49 am

Ech, I may as well.

SaintDraze is either scum, or a terrible townie. either way, I'm voting for him. I don't think it's necessary to repeat the reason's that everybody else has given.

Actually, it is neccessary to show that it isn't just a bandwagon...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 18, 2011, 12:16:54 pm

Japa Voting without reason is never good and clearly saying that you just jump on bandwagon is even worse. You say you are unsure who to vote,when then vote SaintDraze without asking any qeustions ? Overall D1 should be teeming with them and that kind of approach degrades it to nearly lynch random people without question... How you want to find out who is scum without it ? Or that's not important to you ? Also you mean you will ask for shorten ?

Painiac You would want to see hammer vote lynch in this game ? Why ?

Supercharazad Asking for shorten only because you're bored is asking for problem. And do not wait for something to happen,just make it happen..  Also why you say that when somebody votes you, your vote will be an OMGUS one ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 12:21:37 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 18, 2011, 12:16:54 pm

Japa Voting without reason is never good and clearly saying that you just jump on bandwagon is even worse. You say you are unsure who to vote,when then vote SaintDraze without asking any qeustions ? Overall D1 should be teeming with them and that kind of approach degrades it to nearly lynch random people without question... How you want to find out who is scum without it ? Or that's not important to you ? Also you mean you will ask for shorten ?

Painiac You would want to see hammer vote lynch in this game ? Why ?

Supercharazad Asking for shorten only because you're bored is asking for problem. And do not wait for something to happen,just make it happen..  Also why you say that when somebody votes you, your vote will be an OMGUS one ?

Because, if you vote some right after they vote you, it looks like an OMGUS, even when it isn't. Another reason I asked for shorten is because 72 hours seems a bit long for a single day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 18, 2011, 12:27:12 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 18, 2011, 12:16:54 pm

Painiac You would want to see hammer vote lynch in this game ? Why ?

I never stated I want hammer vote lynch. Yes, I am pretty sure SaintDraze is scum, and lynching him already would speed up the game. But, it never hurts to scumhunt more for second scum. And, other townies are also scumhunting, so stopping them would be untowny thing to do. Yea, it is boring as hell, but we want to practice scumhunting techniques and everything.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 12:29:44 pm

I will not ask to shorten the day, and I have nothing really to say regarding the fact that while I have no idea who to vote for, SaintDraze  seems the most likeley.

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't sure about joining this game in the first place, mainly because I'm terrible at judging people and tend to trust people unless they're acting ridiculously obvious. now that I've played for a bit, it seems I was right on my initial assessment. I can't be careful about my votes, cus waiting and not voting is a scummy action that only helps the mafia, I can't vote for the person who's acting, if not suspicious, at least very stupid, because that's bandwagoning, and everybody else has already explained in intricate detail what he's been doing that's suspicious, so any reasons I do give will be piggybacking on somebody else's, and I can't find faults with people's posts enough to interrogate them because I'm not that kind of person, so I guess I can either get replaced with the next person in line, or get voted out, cus I can't figure out a way I can play this game.

also, 72 hours is a fine day length, because some of us have jobs and can't spend all day on a forum investigating.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 18, 2011, 01:10:08 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 09:52:44 am

Might as well state my scumpicks...
Supercharazad, Who began the day reserved and cautious, And then became drastically "Excited" because I asked him about it...


He Is probably just trying to be better and I am ruining for him, or a newb that is Satisfied with being scum who ,When accused of being scum because of it, Became A tolerable degree of "Excited" to make it look like he is playing town by playing the way he usually is...

I can state without qualification that in a Beginner's Mafia game no player is going to be able to know their meta so well that they can act like town while advancing their scum goals.

You suspect that Supercharazad is trying to act like his normal self to appear town. Are you an expert on his meta? If you are, then you can state what's different about what he's doing.

Otherwise, he's acting like himself. In which case, you don't have much of a reason to vote for him.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 11:53:38 am

I vote for shorten because I'm getting bored of waiting for something to happen, and some others seem to be thinking about it too.

Object to Shorten. There's still discussion going. As long as that's happening there's no reason to cut the day short.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 11:53:38 am

Jim: Ah, alright, waiting to vote seems scummy, I'll remember that. My argument to vote SaintDraze is that almost everything he does seems scummy to me, I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that he is scum. (Example, voting me so as I couldn't vote him without an OMGUS accusation)

Everything he does seeming scummy to you is not a good reason. You need to list out your reasons in explicit detail. If your reasons are good, nobody will take issue with them. If your reasons are very good, you might convince people that your target is scum.

So list your reasons in explicit detail. Every single one. If you can't list them out, then you need to seriously reconsider why you think your target is scum.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 12:21:37 pm

Because, if you vote some right after they vote you, it looks like an OMGUS, even when it isn't. Another reason I asked for shorten is because 72 hours seems a bit long for a single day.

OMGUS is a worthless accusation in most cases. If you have good reasons, it's not an OMGUS. So don't worry about that.

Quote from: Japa on February 18, 2011, 12:29:44 pm

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't sure about joining this game in the first place, mainly because I'm terrible at judging people and tend to trust people unless they're acting ridiculously obvious. now that I've played for a bit, it seems I was right on my initial assessment. I can't be careful about my votes, cus waiting and not voting is a scummy action that only helps the mafia, I can't vote for the person who's acting, if not suspicious, at least very stupid, because that's bandwagoning, and everybody else has already explained in intricate detail what he's been doing that's suspicious, so any reasons I do give will be piggybacking on somebody else's, and I can't find faults with people's posts enough to interrogate them because I'm not that kind of person, so I guess I can either get replaced with the next person in line, or get voted out, cus I can't figure out a way I can play this game.

You should worry less about tiptoeing through the minefield of scumtells and just do everything you can think of to catch scum. In fact, you shouldn't worry about tiptoeing through the minefield of scumtells at all. Just do what you need to do to catch scum.

Seriously. Fuck tiptoeing around scumtells. If you do that and just go find scum you will be town and there's nothing anybody will be able to say otherwise.

This is an important enough lesson that I should probably stress this. More often than not new players learn the lesson that they should be trying to avoid scum tells. This is the absolute wrong lesson to take away from this game. You should be finding scum.

As you get more and more experienced you'll get better at not dropping scum tells in the first place. Mafia is a feedback loop in that regard; what people accuse you of being scummy for you will learn and avoid in the future. But do not, do not, avoid scum tells at the cost of finding scum. That's scummy and will get you lynched anywhere outside of here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 01:15:09 pm

that's exactly the thing, I'm too trusting to find scum. The best I can manage is voting for somebody that I don't have sufficient reason to vote for, because it's better that a townie get's lynched than a scum goes free.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

To be honest, my reasons for voting SaintDraze are:

I'm pretty sure he tried to make an OMGUS defense (ooh, is that a real mafia term? It could be a viable strategy)
He randomly insults me (I'm guessing he wants me to make mistakes, and angry people do)
He seems to be subtly trying to get me lynched (See 1, see 2, his random votes on me ect.)

As I said before, I'm fairly certain that he is scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 18, 2011, 01:24:03 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 18, 2011, 01:15:09 pm

that's exactly the thing, I'm too trusting to find scum. The best I can manage is voting for somebody that I don't have sufficient reason to vote for, because it's better that a townie get's lynched than a scum goes free.

Then try unwarranted paranoia and see if that helps.

Go reread the thread. As you read through it, if there's anything that makes you wonder, ask the person about it. It can be as simple as 'why did you pick x for that question'.

Note: This is specific advice to Japa only. Do not be unnecessarily paranoid or I will have something to say about it.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

To be honest,

So, were you not being honest before?

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

I'm pretty sure he tried to make an OMGUS defense (ooh, is that a real mafia term? It could be a viable strategy)

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

He randomly insults me (I'm guessing he wants me to make mistakes, and angry people do)

Sticks and stones, my friend. If you think he's trying to make you angry so that you'll make a mistake, do you think he's being malicious about it?

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

He seems to be subtly trying to get me lynched (See 1, see 2, his random votes on me ect.)

Don't throw that etcetera at me. If you've got &cetera you're not listing, you should list it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 18, 2011, 01:34:31 pm

Saint:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 09:52:44 am

Japa and toaster Know that I am town even though I am being really scummy...
That's kinda suspicious... :\
Toaster& Japa
Kindly state, Or restate if you already said your reason, why you decided not to vote me?

I never said I knew you were town.  I'm more interested in hunting others than jumping on the bandwagon right now.


Super:
Shortening is a bad idea, especially if there are lots of posts going on, especially if it's D1.  I can't think of a situation that would call for a shorten on D1.

OMGUS Defense:  I don't think this logic holds.  It becomes circular logic (WIFOM (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wine_In_Front_Of_Me)) because you're assuming that person is going to vote you in the first place.

Further, you didn't answer my questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1991733#msg1991733) to you.

[You need to take the time to address any questions directed at you.  Refusal to cooperate is a very anti-town move, as is any form of stifling discussion (AKA shortens at bad times.)]


Japa:  Painiac said he did not want to shorten the day- not that he did.  Did you realize this?

Also, you need to state your reasoning behind votes, even if you think they are obvious.

[As far as being unsure goes, Jim beat me to the punch again.  If anything anyone does doesn't appear completely sound and logical, question them about it.  If you've got nothing, reread the thread.  If you still have nothing, pick a person and read their posts.  If you get nothing on that, pick another person, etc.

Worry less about protecting your image and more about finding scum.  If you get mislynched, it sucks, but if you've contributed a lot, you've helped the team.  Remember, you don't have to be alive to win.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 02:36:43 pm

I would have still voted him, if he had not voted me.

Jim, be OMGUS defense, I mean voting someone, to make them reconsider voting you because they are afraid of being called out for an OMGUS.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Well I don't really mind if we shorten.
It seems the only thing that will prove my innocence...

Super probably isn't scum since he seems over eager to lynch me...
scum wouldn't want to be very visible when they are trying get someone lynched
Makes them look bad when the lynched flips townie...

I don't maliciously insult...

Unvote supercharazad, Vote SaintDraze

The scummiest person so far is me...
I am still clueless about who is being scummy...


Now Japa and toaster are the only ones that aren't voting me...
Sigh.... -_-
Toaster You don't Really need to use vote to pressure You can use FoS.

What would your plan be once I flip Town?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 03:33:11 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Well I don't really mind if we shorten.
It seems the only thing that will prove my innocence...

Super probably isn't scum since he seems over eager to lynch me...
scum wouldn't want to be very visible when they are trying get someone lynched
Makes them look bad when the lynched flips townie...

I don't maliciously insult...

Unvote supercharazad, Vote SaintDraze

The scummiest person so far is me...
I am still clueless about who is being scummy...


Now Japa and toaster are the only ones that aren't voting me...
Sigh.... -_-
Toaster You don't Really need to use vote to pressure You can use FoS.

What would your plan be once I flip Town?

I'm not over-eager to lynch you. I do however want you lynched.

You do know that voting yourself is a scumtell?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 18, 2011, 03:37:41 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Unvote supercharazad, Vote SaintDraze

NEVER DO THIS EVER.

There is no reason to ever vote yourself.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Super probably isn't scum since he seems over eager to lynch me...
scum wouldn't want to be very visible when they are trying get someone lynched
Makes them look bad when the lynched flips townie...

This doesn't matter as much as you think it does. That a player is pushing a lynch doesn't make him town or scum. It's his reasons that matter. Do you think Supercharazad's reasons for pushing your lynch are townlike?

You're making too many assumptions.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Toaster You don't Really need to use vote to pressure You can use FoS.

Who are the ICs? Maybe you should listen to them instead of telling them what to do.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 02:36:43 pm

I would have still voted him, if he had not voted me.

Jim, be OMGUS defense, I mean voting someone, to make them reconsider voting you because they are afraid of being called out for an OMGUS.

If you're talking about SaintDraze's first post, that was in the RVS. Random votes tend to be meaningless and mostly to get attention.

I'm almost completely certain that preemptive OMGUS defense is not what was going on. Similarly, you will never, ever have to worry about doing that because nobody votes anybody to stop them from voting them.

That wasn't all I asked you about.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 03:51:40 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 18, 2011, 03:37:41 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 02:36:43 pm

I would have still voted him, if he had not voted me.

Jim, be OMGUS defense, I mean voting someone, to make them reconsider voting you because they are afraid of being called out for an OMGUS.

If you're talking about SaintDraze's first post, that was in the RVS. Random votes tend to be meaningless and mostly to get attention.

I'm almost completely certain that preemptive OMGUS defense is not what was going on. Similarly, you will never, ever have to worry about doing that because nobody votes anybody to stop them from voting them.

That wasn't all I asked you about.

I didn't mean his first post. I meant the post right before I voted him.

The "to be honest" part was mindless fluff, I probably shouldn't have kept it in there.
I do believe he is being malicious about trying to make me angry, but we'll see on monday.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 18, 2011, 04:02:38 pm

Saint:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

scum wouldn't want to be very visible when they are trying get someone lynched
Makes them look bad when the lynched flips townie...

You can't assume that.  You're going into WIFOM again.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Unvote supercharazad, Vote SaintDraze

Quote from: webadict on February 15, 2011, 05:55:21 pm

Game rules:

• Never underestimate your importance, and always play to win!

Not only is giving up not fun, but you're hurting your own team when you do it.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Toaster You don't Really need to use vote to pressure You can use FoS.

Why do you keep insisting I vote you over Super?  You're drawing a strong connection between you two.  It's not beyond assumption that this whole thing was staged to make the "loser" look townie.

[Yes, I dipped into WIFOM there.  But sometimes it's hard to avoid.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 18, 2011, 04:24:23 pm

And again D1 drowns the same way.  :-\ ( i feel like i said this in each game i played  :'( )

SaintDraze Voting yourself is only showing that you don't care about voting and scumhunt, it's not in any way helping you unless you want to be lynched. Who do you find most scummy and who do you have least clear view on ? Ask both of them at least one serious question so i could say that you're not purposefully stopping others from finding scum!

Japa Do you think lynching SaintDraze would bring much information ?

Toaster In what situation do you think calling for shorten is justified ?

Quote from: Japa on February 18, 2011, 12:29:44 pm

I will not ask to shorten the day, and I have nothing really to say regarding the fact that while I have no idea who to vote for, SaintDraze  seems the most likeley.

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't sure about joining this game in the first place, mainly because I'm terrible at judging people and tend to trust people unless they're acting ridiculously obvious. now that I've played for a bit, it seems I was right on my initial assessment. I can't be careful about my votes, cus waiting and not voting is a scummy action that only helps the mafia, I can't vote for the person who's acting, if not suspicious, at least very stupid, because that's bandwagoning, and everybody else has already explained in intricate detail what he's been doing that's suspicious, so any reasons I do give will be piggybacking on somebody else's, and I can't find faults with people's posts enough to interrogate them because I'm not that kind of person, so I guess I can either get replaced with the next person in line, or get voted out, cus I can't figure out a way I can play this game.

also, 72 hours is a fine day length, because some of us have jobs and can't spend all day on a forum investigating.

Well, i feel the same way on D1 so don't take too much into no-real suspect,in my opinion D1 most times is just hunting for little (or bigger) slips so first lynch isn't completely random. Unvote

Painiac Do you think looking for scum teamwork on D1 is effective ? How would you recognize one ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 18, 2011, 04:46:09 pm

Tyberix:  Not many.  Usually it'd be something like an uncontested cop claim where the claim target is clearly giving up, and everyone has stopped talking- this happens more later in the game.  If there's any real discussion going on, or the target is making a credible case for his defense with people having doubts, then a shorten is bad.

It's a case by case basis.  When in doubt, don't shorten.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 05:46:11 pm

Quote from: Toaster on February 18, 2011, 04:02:38 pm

Saint:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

scum wouldn't want to be very visible when they are trying get someone lynched
Makes them look bad when the lynched flips townie...

You can't assume that.  You're going into WIFOM again.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Unvote supercharazad, Vote SaintDraze

Quote from: webadict on February 15, 2011, 05:55:21 pm

Game rules:

• Never underestimate your importance, and always play to win!

Not only is giving up not fun, but you're hurting your own team when you do it.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Toaster You don't Really need to use vote to pressure You can use FoS.

Why do you keep insisting I vote you over Super?  You're drawing a strong connection between you two.  It's not beyond assumption that this whole thing was staged to make the "loser" look townie.

[Yes, I dipped into WIFOM there.  But sometimes it's hard to avoid.]

Oh bother, I think he's trying to make me look like his buddy :/

SaintDraze, that doesn't work, because if I were your buddy, you'd want to rotect me, not give me away.

Stop trying to get me lynched, it isn't working.

de-shorten vote

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 18, 2011, 05:58:31 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 18, 2011, 04:24:23 pm

Painiac Do you think looking for scum teamwork on D1 is effective ? How would you recognize one ?

Uuugh, I am thinking about answer to this myself...

First point: it is really WIFOM-related thing. If he is scum, then that other player can be also, but if he's not, then what? It's better to avoid such complex situations. Basic scumhunt is basic, and it should be your main way of approaching scum. Well, if you are really confident of someone being scum - ideally copcheck - then you have some ground for looking elsewhere. In case of copcheck, you may want to check interactions of other players with your scum, instead shouting out information when you get it. Players may try throwing him under bus, joining bandwagon. Most important thing, they will want often to defend their scummates, including chainsawing. But yes, unless your scum will die and show his alignment, leave WIFOM alone.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 05:46:11 pm

SaintDraze, that doesn't work, because if I were your buddy, you'd want to rotect me, not give me away.

Throwing your scumbuddy under bus is viable strategy to prove innocense after lynch. I saw 5 scums doing this day by day, only to prove their unscuminnes. It was sad thing to look at.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 06:26:58 pm

Actually I think I would be one to Buss my scum partner at first opportunity...

Well My scum picks are Toaster and japa for not voting me...

Toaster if you know if I am scum then why didn't you keep your vote me?

It Looks scummy to me...

Japa probably Just voted me because toaster Told him to do so...

If you guys were scum it would benefit you guys to be the ones who didn't vote for Town mislynch...

that's all I really have...

God I really sucked this game...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Supercharazad that's the most scummy thing i heard since the day start. What should he do other than pressing on his target ? Maybe attack someone else who you feel should be attacked ? Any excuse or clarification ?

SaintDraze How the hell not voting you is scummy ? You admit you're scum ? Or you say you're intentionally make us vote for you ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 07:17:43 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Supercharazad that's the most scummy thing i heard since the day start. What should he do other than pressing on his target ? Maybe attack someone else who you feel should be attacked ? Any excuse or clarification ?

SaintDraze How the hell not voting you is scummy ? You admit you're scum ? Or you say you're intentionally make us vote for you ?

Tyberix, it's not scummy, it's me repeating advice from a previous game I was in. NEVER give up, EVER, you should always keep trying to get the scum killed, even when you are minutes away from lynching.

Tyberix: Why the vote on something that isn't scummy in the slightest?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 07:22:23 am

I swear, I thought I posted something here yesterday.

Toaster and Jim: How is B12 Mafia different from Mafia done elsewhere? Also, how many games have each of you played?

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Agreed. There is no reason to stop scumhunting.

Quote from: Painiac on February 18, 2011, 06:25:50 am

lordnincompoop: If you would be cop, would you roleclaim? If yes, in which circumstances?

I would roleclaim at LYLO regardless, and MYLO if I got a scum reading. I would claim cop elsewhere if I believe it would be advantageous.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 09:52:44 am

Alright I yam up naow...
Saw the saddest movie ever and couldn't play mafia that Night...(It was Pixars UP)

Still see that I am going to be lynched... -_-

Might as well state my scumpicks...
Supercharazad, Who began the day reserved and cautious, And then became drastically "Excited" because I asked him about it...


He Is probably just trying to be better and I am ruining for him, or a newb that is Satisfied with being scum who ,When accused of being scum because of it, Became A tolerable degree of "Excited" to make it look like he is playing town by playing the way he usually is...

Unvote Painiac
Supercharazad
Oh hey I found out how to use color format on the mac! =D


Btw, Shouldn't I have been lynched by Now? almost ever single vote is on me Except japa toaster and myself.

Japa and toaster Know that I am town even though I am being really scummy...
That's kinda suspicious... :\
Toaster& Japa
Kindly state, Or restate if you already said your reason, why you decided not to vote me?

You're digging your own grave now? What?

You have to state reasons for your vote on Super. Voting without a reason is often very suspicious behaviour, and is likely to get you lynched if you cannot back it up.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 12:14:44 pm

Ah, I see. From what I can tell easily from your actions:

You want me lynched (RV on first post, attempting to create an OMGUS situation)
You are scum (General scummyness, I think everyone knows what I'm talking about)
You were excited when you did not see me vote you (Realised you made a mistake, thought you were off the hook)


I had doubts, but now they have fallen away and died, for these reasons, I am sorry to say:

Vote: SaintDraze

I will not stop until you are lynched, You have confirmed yourself as scum in my eyes.

@Point 1: That was the RVS, and we vote and flail at each other. Get over it.
@Point 2: What? No, we don't know what we're talking about. Each of us have different reasons for voting him. What are yours? Always state your reasons, Supercharazard. Your continued failure to do so smells of scum.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 01:17:00 pm

RV on first post is annoying though, especially with no reason, where did FoS go?
Clear OMGUS? That's exactly why I voted him. Because he seemed to be voting me so as I could not vote him without making an OMGUS, except I didn't vote him just because he voted me, I voted him for many reasons.

WIOFMey speculations? They are not intended to be, that is simply what I can see from his posts.
I'm not "sorry to attack him", the I'm sorry bit is sort of an "I didn;t want to do this, but...", because I didn't want to vote him, because I wasn't totally convinced he was scum.
How is it scummy? It's what every source so far has told me to do, push and make sure they think you won't stop until they are lynched.
I said, "confirmed scum in my eyes", saying that I know he is scum, and very little can change that.

Saintdraze, that was not a good reason, in fact, it is a pretty stupid reason. You want me to get angry and annoyed at you, therefore making mistakes, so you cram insults into your posts, all directed at me. It isn't working :/
I'm not spazzing out, in fact, I voted you for multile perfectly reasonable reasons. It is you who tends to "spazz out" and get VERY defensive whenever you are called scum, which is rather scummy.

SaintDraze: What reasons did you have to vote me, other than just trying to get at me from past games?

Toaster:To explain my first point a bit more, let's look at his vote on me just there now. He voted for no reason, voting is not for prodding, that's why there is an FoS. He seems to know I was going to vote him, so he voted me to make my vote seem like an OMGUS, when I had perfectly valid reasons to vote him, whereas his reasons are invalid.

Again, RVS.

Only three, the majority of which are unclear. I want you to do so now.

I think you are. You're getting rather emotional under there, which is a bad thing to be when scumhunting. Additionally, what are your other suspects? You're focusing too much on SaintDraze, which will only hurt your game.

Your reasons are invalid as well. You haven't even stated them properly.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Supercharazad that's the most scummy thing i heard since the day start. What should he do other than pressing on his target ? Maybe attack someone else who you feel should be attacked ? Any excuse or clarification ?

SaintDraze How the hell not voting you is scummy ? You admit you're scum ? Or you say you're intentionally make us vote for you ?

The hell is this? Clearly, SD isn't pressing his targets. Look at that post; it's incredibly passive. You're voting somebody because they're encouraging discussion. Tyberix, why would you do that?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 07:25:08 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 07:17:43 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Supercharazad that's the most scummy thing i heard since the day start. What should he do other than pressing on his target ? Maybe attack someone else who you feel should be attacked ? Any excuse or clarification ?

SaintDraze How the hell not voting you is scummy ? You admit you're scum ? Or you say you're intentionally make us vote for you ?

Tyberix, it's not scummy, it's me repeating advice from a previous game I was in. NEVER give up, EVER, you should always keep trying to get the scum killed, even when you are minutes away from lynching.

Tyberix: Why the vote on something that isn't scummy in the slightest?

You state exactly otherwise!  Unless the first sentence is an reminder and a second is an advice , you should separate it somehow this way it looks like you say attacking is wrong ! But right i read too much in your response, Unvote

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:03:54 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 07:25:08 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 07:17:43 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Supercharazad that's the most scummy thing i heard since the day start. What should he do other than pressing on his target ? Maybe attack someone else who you feel should be attacked ? Any excuse or clarification ?

SaintDraze How the hell not voting you is scummy ? You admit you're scum ? Or you say you're intentionally make us vote for you ?

Tyberix, it's not scummy, it's me repeating advice from a previous game I was in. NEVER give up, EVER, you should always keep trying to get the scum killed, even when you are minutes away from lynching.

Tyberix: Why the vote on something that isn't scummy in the slightest?

You state exactly otherwise!  Unless the first sentence is an reminder and a second is an advice , you should separate it somehow this way it looks like you say attacking is wrong ! But right i read too much in your response, Unvote

I meant that he should keep pressing his case, which he refuses to do, giving up is bad in Mafia, I learned that, he needs to aswell.

If it was a mis-undertsanding then un-FoS.




I have a plan here though, if SaintDraze happens to turn out scum, we look for whoever looks most nervous, they are most likely to be his scumbuddy.

If he isn't, we look for the happiest and most relieved players, and lynch one, then, we look for nervousness and so on ad infinitum until the game ends.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:17:47 am

Are you going to respond to me at all, Super?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:25:21 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:17:47 am

Are you going to respond to me at all, Super?

You never asked me to respond, and you didn't ask any questions. I honestly don't care if you vote me, I'm still going to look for scum... (Honestly, I'm waiting for D2, so as we can see whether SaintDraze was scum or not, and then I can actually put my plan into action.)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:31:53 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:25:21 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:17:47 am

Are you going to respond to me at all, Super?

You never asked me to respond, and you didn't ask any questions. I honestly don't care if you vote me, I'm still going to look for scum... (Honestly, I'm waiting for D2, so as we can see whether SaintDraze was scum or not, and then I can actually put my plan into action.)

Did you even read through what I said?

I didn't vote you because you were scumhunting, Super. I want you to explain your reasoning further, which you've failed to do.

Your hints at a greater plan are worrying. In Mafia, you have to be a team player. You clearly aren't being one. Do you honestly expect your plan to come through without the support of the rest of us?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 08:32:55 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:25:21 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:17:47 am

Are you going to respond to me at all, Super?

You never asked me to respond, and you didn't ask any questions. I honestly don't care if you vote me, I'm still going to look for scum... (Honestly, I'm waiting for D2, so as we can see whether SaintDraze was scum or not, and then I can actually put my plan into action.)

What if you die tonight ? Putting your scumhunt for later will hinder our information tomorrow...

Could i ask for votecount ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:42:21 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 08:32:55 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:25:21 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:17:47 am

Are you going to respond to me at all, Super?

You never asked me to respond, and you didn't ask any questions. I honestly don't care if you vote me, I'm still going to look for scum... (Honestly, I'm waiting for D2, so as we can see whether SaintDraze was scum or not, and then I can actually put my plan into action.)

What if you die tonight ? Putting your scumhunt for later will hinder our information tomorrow...

Could i ask for votecount ?

It's D1, scumhunting is already hindered by lack of info. I gave my plan to everyone, if I am nightkilled and someone wants to pick it up, please, do.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:54:12 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:42:21 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 08:32:55 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:25:21 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:17:47 am

Are you going to respond to me at all, Super?

You never asked me to respond, and you didn't ask any questions. I honestly don't care if you vote me, I'm still going to look for scum... (Honestly, I'm waiting for D2, so as we can see whether SaintDraze was scum or not, and then I can actually put my plan into action.)

What if you die tonight ? Putting your scumhunt for later will hinder our information tomorrow...

Could i ask for votecount ?

It's D1, scumhunting is already hindered by lack of info. I gave my plan to everyone, if I am nightkilled and someone wants to pick it up, please, do.

A lot of which you are responsible for. I'd like more than a few sentences from you detailing your reasons.

Simply ignoring people is very anti-town, as Toaster stated. If you have already done so, show me that post.

Looking over this post:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

...
He randomly insults me (I'm guessing he wants me to make mistakes, and angry people do)
He seems to be subtly trying to get me lynched (See 1, see 2, his random votes on me ect.)
...

Then don't let those attacks get to you. I'm sure you're mature enough.

Of course he's trying to get you lynched. We're trying to lynch the scum here, and claiming otherwise is wrong.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 09:09:08 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:54:12 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:42:21 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 08:32:55 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:25:21 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 08:17:47 am

Are you going to respond to me at all, Super?

You never asked me to respond, and you didn't ask any questions. I honestly don't care if you vote me, I'm still going to look for scum... (Honestly, I'm waiting for D2, so as we can see whether SaintDraze was scum or not, and then I can actually put my plan into action.)

What if you die tonight ? Putting your scumhunt for later will hinder our information tomorrow...

Could i ask for votecount ?

It's D1, scumhunting is already hindered by lack of info. I gave my plan to everyone, if I am nightkilled and someone wants to pick it up, please, do.

A lot of which you are responsible for. I'd like more than a few sentences from you detailing your reasons.

Simply ignoring people is very anti-town, as Toaster stated. If you have already done so, show me that post.

Looking over this post:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

...
He randomly insults me (I'm guessing he wants me to make mistakes, and angry people do)
He seems to be subtly trying to get me lynched (See 1, see 2, his random votes on me ect.)
...

Then don't let those attacks get to you. I'm sure you're mature enough.

Of course he's trying to get you lynched. We're trying to lynch the scum here, and claiming otherwise is wrong.

Subtly is the key word there. If he were town, he'd be investigating me openly and plainly.

The post with my plan was:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:03:54 am

I have a plan here though, if SaintDraze happens to turn out scum, we look for whoever looks most nervous, they are most likely to be his scumbuddy.

If he isn't, we look for the happiest and most relieved players, and lynch one, then, we look for nervousness if they are scum and so on ad infinitum until the game ends.

The idea was that it's a scumhunting strategy I intend to use personally, if others want to use it to try and catch scum, they can, because they know of it.

I'd also like an up to date votecount.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 19, 2011, 10:30:49 am

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Painiac, Akivara, Jim Groovester, supercharazad, Japa, SaintDraze,
Akivara -
Japa -
Tyberix -
supercharazad - Toaster, lordnincompoop,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Tyberix,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 12:01:14 pm

Akivara Do you think situation like this when all votes are distributed among two people is good ? Also please restate why you're voting SaintDraze, your last post was long ago and looked like it was prod-vote.

Supercharazad You realize that if that plan was meant to work :
a)you shouldn't state it with people names in it ( all of your next attacks on them will look fabricated to match the plan)
b)you should test your target today. No attack on D1 and sudden charge on D2 would look strange in my opinion.

Of course unless that's not full plan  ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 12:41:51 pm

It is my full plan, and the only name was SaintDraze's, as he's almost certainly going to be lynched unless I do something stupid and get myself lynched.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 19, 2011, 01:13:49 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 07:22:23 am

Toaster and Jim: How is B12 Mafia different from Mafia done elsewhere? Also, how many games have each of you played?

I have no idea.

A bazillion.

What's the point of this question?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 01:17:19 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 19, 2011, 01:13:49 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 19, 2011, 07:22:23 am

Toaster and Jim: How is B12 Mafia different from Mafia done elsewhere? Also, how many games have each of you played?

I have no idea.

A bazillion.

What's the point of this question?

None, really. I was just curious.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 19, 2011, 10:51:45 pm

SaintDraze:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 06:26:58 pm

Well My scum picks are Toaster and japa for not voting me...

Toaster if you know if I am scum then why didn't you keep your vote me?

Don't tell me to whom to vote for.  You're scummy, but I think Super is scummier at this point.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

I endorse this statement.


Tyberix:

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

Supercharazad that's the most scummy thing i heard since the day start. What should he do other than pressing on his target ? Maybe attack someone else who you feel should be attacked ? Any excuse or clarification ?

SaintDraze How the hell not voting you is scummy ? You admit you're scum ? Or you say you're intentionally make us vote for you ?

What is this?  How is that scummy?  Please explain.


LNCP:
      W   L
T     1   7
M     5   3
3     2   3

Total 8   13

I only have it because someone asked me in BYOR 6.3- I just added a town loss (no comment) from SorcApp3.  I've never played elsewhere except a couple times on MafiaScum's IRC.   IRC is much faster, Epic Mafia is fast, and MafiaScum is slower.


Super:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 08:03:54 am

I have a plan here though, if SaintDraze happens to turn out scum, we look for whoever looks most nervous, they are most likely to be his scumbuddy.

If he isn't, we look for the happiest and most relieved players, and lynch one, then, we look for nervousness and so on ad infinitum until the game ends.

Actually, you're hitting the reverse of the "congratulating the doc" scumtell.  Someone who actively cheers a night event that is good for the town could be doing it just to appear to be more townlike.  The whole business is soaked in WIFOM, though, and I suggest you don't worry too much about that and just actively scumhunt.


Jim:

Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)

I'd love to see your first game here.  Any idea which one it was?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 12:56:16 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 19, 2011, 10:51:45 pm

Jim:

Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)

I'd love to see your first game here.  Any idea which one it was?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Beginner's Mafia I (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39457.0).

I rolled Doctor, never protected successfully once, attacked webadict the whole game, defended scum Vector, claimed to save myself from lynch, got ToonyMan lynched instead, and was nightkilled.

It was one of the most stressful experiences of my life.

Akivara, Japa, by my incredibly rough rubric of participation, which is to say neither of you have posted within the last two pages, I wonder if you are lurking. What do you make of things? What do you make of SaintDraze at the moment? What about anyone else?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 05:35:48 am

Japa: If I were NKd tonight, what would you do?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 05:44:29 am

Okay, while I was conviced Supercharazad was being newbie, it looks like he is another scum.

You are acting weird about RVS stage. Jim has stated some rules about it in his first post. I will say after him: random vote is normal thing. Yet it is your pretty much only claim why SaintDraze is scum. It is weak. It's like you wanted to bandwagon to him while you coulnd't find arguments.

You had asked many questions in your first post. Most of them was, well, unconclusive. That or that. In your second post you didn't comment on any answer for your questions. Even on SaintDraze. It seems like you didn't care about questions and answers. So, it looks you only pretended to do any scumhunt. When everyone piled up on SaintDraze, you didn't look for any clues. You were looking how vote on him while not being suspected. You saw you couldn't do anything, so you could only throw him under bus.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 11:59:21 am

Currently, I'm going to vote Saint the second he messes up again.

And again, your only argument is his vote in randomvoting stage. You know, he had MOVED his vote when you had posted, and ramdomvoted me instead. You are arguing something, which existed for, hell, 5 minutes in game? Maybe 15? Your argument doesn't make sense. He wasn't trying lynching you and you know it as well. Well, you probably remember it so clear, because it gave you pressure, and if you are scum, it isn't weird why you can't forget it.

You are voting for shortening, because you are bored? Hey, my questioning about shortening had some effects, I see. You was feeling pressured, and wanted to end it, when you saw chance. That was your reason.

Your last post... NK'ed or not, talking about it spread only WIFOM. You can't find scum from this. That question is somewhat scummy.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 05:45:03 am

Also, FoS Supercharazad.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

How is it a scummy question? It is a perfectly fine thing to ask, I was simply wondering what he would do.

Also, before this game I had never heard of RVS, so don't call me out as scum for newbyness.

The questions in my first post were simple silly questions, made at 11 o' clock at night, I was tired :/

Why would I look to vote him without being suspected?

He had made many scummy posts before I voted him.
My reason for wanting a shorten is because I was honestly getting bored waiting for D2.


I also have a great visual and audio memory (not so great on the other types though), I remember almost every post he made.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 06:21:30 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

How is it a scummy question? It is a perfectly fine thing to ask, I was simply wondering what he would do.

Because it brings only WIFOM and confusion. Nothing to gain.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

Also, before this game I had never heard of RVS, so don't call me out as scum for newbyness.

God damn, Jim has explained it in his first post, and he posted AFTER you! You couldn't miss him! You should know it then.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

The questions in my first post were simple silly questions, made at 11 o' clock at night, I was tired :/

Yea, they are silly, and there's so many of them. That's the point. You didn't cared about them in first place, that's why these are silly.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

Why would I look to vote him without being suspected?

He had made many scummy posts before I voted him.

Well, you wanted to AVOID suspection and eventual pressure. If you are scum, it's easy to understand, you were scared off eventual rebuttal. That's why you come with ambigious arguments. And randomvote thingy.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:44:25 am

Quote from: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 06:21:30 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

How is it a scummy question? It is a perfectly fine thing to ask, I was simply wondering what he would do.

Because it brings only WIFOM and confusion. Nothing to gain.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

Also, before this game I had never heard of RVS, so don't call me out as scum for newbyness.

God damn, Jim has explained it in his first post, and he posted AFTER you! You couldn't miss him! You should know it then.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

The questions in my first post were simple silly questions, made at 11 o' clock at night, I was tired :/

Yea, they are silly, and there's so many of them. That's the point. You didn't cared about them in first place, that's why these are silly.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

Why would I look to vote him without being suspected?

He had made many scummy posts before I voted him.

Well, you wanted to AVOID suspection and eventual pressure. If you are scum, it's easy to understand, you were scared off eventual rebuttal. That's why you come with ambigious arguments. And randomvote thingy.

Explain how it could bring WIFOM.

I obviously did miss it.

They were silly questions, a large number of beginning questions in Mafia are silly and useless.

Why would I want to avoid pressure? I'll win when the town wins, it doesn;t matter if I'm lynched or Nkd.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 20, 2011, 08:31:24 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 12:56:16 am

Akivara, Japa, by my incredibly rough rubric of participation, which is to say neither of you have posted within the last two pages, I wonder if you are lurking. What do you make of things? What do you make of SaintDraze at the moment? What about anyone else?

Yes, I am lurking. As I said, I've lost interest.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 05:35:48 am

Japa: If I were NKd tonight, what would you do?

Beats me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 08:33:25 am

Quote from: Japa on February 20, 2011, 08:31:24 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 12:56:16 am

Akivara, Japa, by my incredibly rough rubric of participation, which is to say neither of you have posted within the last two pages, I wonder if you are lurking. What do you make of things? What do you make of SaintDraze at the moment? What about anyone else?

Yes, I am lurking. As I said, I've lost interest.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 05:35:48 am

Japa: If I were NKd tonight, what would you do?

Beats me.

You lost interst in Mafia? Excuse for lurking much?

Why did you lose interest?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 20, 2011, 08:39:54 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 08:33:25 am

You lost interst in Mafia? Excuse for lurking much?

Why did you lose interest?

Because I really don't have the right mindset for it. The most paranoid I ever get is thinking the guy fingering a knife and eyeballing my may not have the best intentions.

That, and I keep telling myself I can go over every post in the thread with a fine tooth comb, in the hope of finding something, anything, that I can question, some other time.

It's just not my type of game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 09:00:30 am

Quote from: Japa on February 20, 2011, 08:39:54 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 08:33:25 am

You lost interst in Mafia? Excuse for lurking much?

Why did you lose interest?

Because I really don't have the right mindset for it. The most paranoid I ever get is thinking the guy fingering a knife and eyeballing my may not have the best intentions.

That, and I keep telling myself I can go over every post in the thread with a fine tooth comb, in the hope of finding something, anything, that I can question, some other time.

It's just not my type of game.

Why not ask for a replacment then? If you REALLY don't care... Are you scum?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 20, 2011, 09:08:56 am

I did.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 20, 2011, 09:18:45 am

The response was "Try harder"

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 20, 2011, 10:46:57 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 12:56:16 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Beginner's Mafia I (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39457.0).

I rolled Doctor, never protected successfully once, attacked webadict the whole game, defended scum Vector, claimed to save myself from lynch, got ToonyMan lynched instead, and was nightkilled.

It was one of the most stressful experiences of my life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I remember that game. I got attacked for attacking Vector hardcore. You, dakarian, and everyone else were like, "No she's not!"

And then I switched at the end. Of course, she was scum, but that's hardly consolation. Grrrr.

---

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Painiac, Akivara, Jim Groovester, supercharazad, Japa, SaintDraze,
Akivara - Tyberix,
Japa -
Tyberix -
supercharazad - Toaster, lordnincompoop,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting -

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 12:56:37 pm

Tyberix: Who are your current scumtells?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 01:06:21 pm

Bother, I meant to say "scumpicks", not "scumtells"

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 20, 2011, 01:22:22 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 20, 2011, 08:39:54 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 08:33:25 am

You lost interst in Mafia? Excuse for lurking much?

Why did you lose interest?

Because I really don't have the right mindset for it. The most paranoid I ever get is thinking the guy fingering a knife and eyeballing my may not have the best intentions.

That, and I keep telling myself I can go over every post in the thread with a fine tooth comb, in the hope of finding something, anything, that I can question, some other time.

It's just not my type of game.

Hey, I'm like that. I struggle to even get off my ass to make posts here. :P

Just try, and you'll do fine. First one's always hardest.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:44:25 am

Quote from: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 06:21:30 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

How is it a scummy question? It is a perfectly fine thing to ask, I was simply wondering what he would do.

Because it brings only WIFOM and confusion. Nothing to gain.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

Also, before this game I had never heard of RVS, so don't call me out as scum for newbyness.

God damn, Jim has explained it in his first post, and he posted AFTER you! You couldn't miss him! You should know it then.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

The questions in my first post were simple silly questions, made at 11 o' clock at night, I was tired :/

Yea, they are silly, and there's so many of them. That's the point. You didn't cared about them in first place, that's why these are silly.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

Why would I look to vote him without being suspected?

He had made many scummy posts before I voted him.

Well, you wanted to AVOID suspection and eventual pressure. If you are scum, it's easy to understand, you were scared off eventual rebuttal. That's why you come with ambigious arguments. And randomvote thingy.

Explain how it could bring WIFOM.

I obviously did miss it.

They were silly questions, a large number of beginning questions in Mafia are silly and useless.

Why would I want to avoid pressure? I'll win when the town wins, it doesn;t matter if I'm lynched or Nkd.

Most if not all speculation into scum motives leads to WIFOM. Check the FAQ.

Maybe you should make good beginning questions then, and break the mould. Be the better man, ya know?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 20, 2011, 01:44:20 pm

Toaster I just misunderstood his post, i thought he say's he should stop investigation (and that would be completely stupid) but after second look i got that he meant opposite ><

Supercharazad As for now it's you for inconsistent play,claiming that you follow plan in the same time,and betting on NK to solve your doubts. NK do not bring that many info if we don't scumhunt day before, right ?

Also Akivara for semi-lurking (it's still weekend after all) and leaving possible RVS prod vote for so long , purposeful town claims and saying that drawing scum attention is bad - how would you attack them without doing so ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 01:46:15 pm

Quote from: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 05:44:29 am

You had asked many questions in your first post. Most of them was, well, unconclusive. That or that. In your second post you didn't comment on any answer for your questions. Even on SaintDraze. It seems like you didn't care about questions and answers. So, it looks you only pretended to do any scumhunt. When everyone piled up on SaintDraze, you didn't look for any clues. You were looking how vote on him while not being suspected. You saw you couldn't do anything, so you could only throw him under bus.

Ehhhhhh, you shouldn't look for scumteams on Day 1. Even if you think SaintDraze and Supercharazad are independently scummy, you do not want to connect the two together. You'll make mistakes the moment you assume you any team, because then you'll ignore other scummy actions that you would otherwise notice in favor of trying to conform everything to the theory you just made up.

Just ignore the potential repercussions of both your targets being on a team and just focus on individuals. Even if it seems like your scum picks should be exclusive to each other, just go with it. You don't need to resolve all contradictions while scumhunting.

Quote from: Japa on February 20, 2011, 09:18:45 am

The response was "Try harder"

Good. At the very least finish up your first (or second, or whatever) game before swearing off mafia forever.

You owe it to everybody who signed up to try.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 03:20:10 pm

Is there a scum IC and a town IC, or are they both always town?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:21:46 pm

There is no guarantee to either my or Toaster's alignment either way.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 03:22:41 pm

Ah. Also, if an IC is scum, is there only one normal player scum to go with them?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:23:28 pm

There is no guarantee of that either.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 03:27:47 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:23:28 pm

There is no guarantee of that either.

So there can be 3 scum players if an IC is scum?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:30:26 pm

There are only two scum.

But everybody's alignment is randomly distributed. It is completely possible that both ICs are scum. It also possible only one of us is, and it's possible that neither of us are.

Don't draw any conclusions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 20, 2011, 03:35:37 pm

The 2 scum IC situation would be funny ;p I must not make you feel safe if you're scum then !

Jim What info do you think is most important to get out of NK without descending too deep in WIFOM ? Does D1 mislynch is bad or very bad for town in your opinion ? Who would you inspect as a cop ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:49:15 pm

There's very little information to be gained from the nightkill. I don't even think about it unless the choice is really surprising to me somehow.

Day 1 mislynches are common. If the town does their job and the lynch was done for good reasons, it helps them get closer to the scum. As long as everybody has good reasons for the lynchee, then it's not so tragic that if the day ends in a mislynch.

I don't know. You. Akivara. Japa. lordnincompoop. New players who don't completely wear their hearts on their sleeves.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 03:55:27 pm

Akivara: List each player in order of scumminess.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 09:08:34 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

To be honest, my reasons for voting SaintDraze are:

I'm pretty sure he tried to make an OMGUS defense (ooh, is that a real mafia term? It could be a viable strategy)
He randomly insults me (I'm guessing he wants me to make mistakes, and angry people do)
He seems to be subtly trying to get me lynched (See 1, see 2, his random votes on me ect.)

As I said before, I'm fairly certain that he is scum.

He voted for you once, randomly. hardly reason to act like this. explain yourself further.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 18, 2011, 04:24:23 pm

Japa Do you think lynching SaintDraze would bring much information ?

I'm not sure, actually.

Jim Groovester Who do you suspect besides Supercharazad and SaintDraze, who seem to be taking up the channel with their bickering at each other?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 12:50:15 pm

Tyberix keeps asking questions about nightkills that I think might go beyond simple interest in the subject. New players can sometimes betray themselves by the 'innocent' questions they ask.

Akivara hasn't posted in a while, but that's no reason for significant alarm.

Who are your suspects?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:11:30 pm

Not much activity around, though I guess I shouldn't be the one saying that. Any questions for moi?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:49:15 pm

Day 1 mislynches are common. If the town does their job and the lynch was done for good reasons, it helps them get closer to the scum. As long as everybody has good reasons for the lynchee, then it's not so tragic that if the day ends in a mislynch.

Would you say we have good reasons for the SD lynch?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:49:15 pm

I don't know. You. Akivara. Japa. lordnincompoop. New players who don't completely wear their hearts on their sleeves.

Elaborate.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 20, 2011, 01:44:20 pm

Toaster I just misunderstood his post, i thought he say's he should stop investigation (and that would be completely stupid) but after second look i got that he meant opposite ><

Supercharazad As for now it's you for inconsistent play,claiming that you follow plan in the same time,and betting on NK to solve your doubts. NK do not bring that many info if we don't scumhunt day before, right ?

Also Akivara for semi-lurking (it's still weekend after all) and leaving possible RVS prod vote for so long , purposeful town claims and saying that drawing scum attention is bad - how would you attack them without doing so ?

Drawing scum attention, then getting yourself assassinated, is bad. However, it shouldn't stop good play.

You can't attack and scumhunt without drawing attention.

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 09:08:34 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

To be honest, my reasons for voting SaintDraze are:

I'm pretty sure he tried to make an OMGUS defense (ooh, is that a real mafia term? It could be a viable strategy)
He randomly insults me (I'm guessing he wants me to make mistakes, and angry people do)
He seems to be subtly trying to get me lynched (See 1, see 2, his random votes on me ect.)

As I said before, I'm fairly certain that he is scum.

He voted for you once, randomly. hardly reason to act like this. explain yourself further.

Yeah, I want to see Super's reasoning in detail myself too. If I'm getting this right, he's not answering me because I don't put question marks at the end of my sentences, which isn't a very good reason.

Super, give me some good reasons as to why you refuse to elaborate on your lynch, or give me the explanation.

Akivara, I'd like to see some more posts from you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 02:18:32 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:11:30 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:49:15 pm

Day 1 mislynches are common. If the town does their job and the lynch was done for good reasons, it helps them get closer to the scum. As long as everybody has good reasons for the lynchee, then it's not so tragic that if the day ends in a mislynch.

Would you say we have good reasons for the SD lynch?

Yes.

Well, I do anyway.

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:11:30 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 20, 2011, 03:49:15 pm

I don't know. You. Akivara. Japa. lordnincompoop. New players who don't completely wear their hearts on their sleeves.

Elaborate.

The four of you I mentioned aren't completely skillless like SaintDraze and Supercharazad are. I mean no offense by this, it's just the way it is. Since in a Beginner's game I normally have a hard time getting good reads on new players, I'd help myself out by inspecting people the people who are doing much better jobs of not attracting attention.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:25:42 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 02:18:32 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:11:30 pm

Elaborate.

The four of you I mentioned aren't completely skillless like SaintDraze and Supercharazad are. I mean no offense by this, it's just the way it is. Since in a Beginner's game I normally have a hard time getting good reads on new players, I'd help myself out by inspecting people the people who are doing much better jobs of not attracting attention.

Arrite fair enough.

Attention from whom?

---

Qvestians!
SaintDraze: You still there?
Akivara: Poke! Also, what is your account of the current situation?
Japa: I've not seen you write much recently. Who are your scumpicks and why? Who would be SD's partner?
Tyberix: Your fascination with NKs is odd. Explain yourself.
Supercharazard: Answer my questions above. Also, give us your scumpicks and reasoning (besides SD).
Painiac: As scum, what would you do in this situation?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 02:29:03 pm

Everybody.

You don't see the whole game focusing on either of you four, do you?

I wouldn't necessarily limit myself to you four for the inspect, or even to the criteria I just made up. I'd do whatever seemed like the best idea at the time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:32:58 pm

Also Toaster:You've been lurking. You remember your position here, right? Describe the situation, your scumpicks, and post your reasoning behind each.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 02:43:12 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 12:50:15 pm

Who are your suspects?

Saint and Super are bickering between themselves so much it's hard for me to really judge anybody else, and neither of them really pokes out at me as being the more likely scum. until I can decide between them, UNVOTE

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:25:42 pm

Japa: I've not seen you write much recently. Who are your scumpicks and why? Who would be SD's partner?

As I mentioned above, all I'm really seeing is everybody else asking perfectly reasonable questions and giving perfectly reasonable answers, while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 02:43:41 pm

Jim,Lordnincompoop : Well,i wouldn't call it fascination,but i feel that asking for NK beforehand is better than WIFoming afterwards,also to be clear i asked about it only twice, that's not that much. Also i still have no idea what question is good one for D1 - we got no solid information at this point so i try catch as many inconsistencies as i can and ask about them, and by accident ( or not  :P) super "plan" was highly dependent on NK so asking about it seemed natural.

Well, not too much activity =  town fail so i hope other post soon  ::)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:45:50 pm

What do you think of Saint&Super's quarrel? Description of the situation in general?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 02:47:00 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:45:50 pm

What do you think of Saint&Super's quarrel? Description of the situation in general?

I highly suspect one of them being scum, but I don't have enough evidence against either to make decision.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:49:27 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 02:47:00 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:45:50 pm

What do you think of Saint&Super's quarrel? Description of the situation in general?

I highly suspect one of them being scum, but I don't have enough evidence against either to make decision.

That was for Tyberix but okay

What do you consider evidence?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:49:47 pm

Second line was for Japa though

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 21, 2011, 02:53:25 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 02:43:12 pm

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 03:01:40 pm

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 03:04:46 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:49:27 pm

What do you consider evidence?

Good question. I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 21, 2011, 02:53:25 pm

How? Explain please.

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

I see both of you attacking each other for reasons that don't appear (to me, at least) to have any relevance to actually finding scum, and fit more into the category of personal attacks. while incredibly annoying, it doesn't actually incriminate either of you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 03:05:59 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 21, 2011, 02:53:25 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 02:43:12 pm

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

Super, what I want you to post is more than a few words for each (a paragraph for each, maybe), and provide specific examples such as quotes. Three sentences will not do.

I'm not voting for Saint; I'm voting for you. My reasons for previously voting Saint:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 17, 2011, 09:32:03 am

Quote from: Akivara on February 16, 2011, 07:29:19 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 16, 2011, 06:39:06 pm

And how are you planning on doing that? Do you know how to pressure? If so, why are you not doing it?

I'd rather not draw scum attention (that is, the attention of the scum) too much this early on.  But if you think I can do a better job pressuring, do you have any advice?

Anyway, I'm going to go read through what I missed and see what I can find.

Why not? As town, our job is to hunt, not to survive. If we die, will simply win with the rest.

I haven't seen you pressure, so I can't comment on that yet.

Quote from: Toaster on February 16, 2011, 07:37:01 pm

Lord:  Now how would Jim know if Japa is a cop?  IC gets no more information than a non-IC.

He wouldn't, other than via deduction. I think it's far too early for any role to pop up.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

Because A spazzing noob usually ruins the day...and the days that follow if he isn't lynched...
I voted super because I wanted to see if he'd spazz out so I would kinda know what to expect...
as for asking that question, I already got a satisfactory answer...
and I Take it as a yes, If super does spazz LP's going to lynch vote him...
Unless of course someone roleclaims godfather...

Wait.... Oh shit, My bad then Book...
Annnd there goes most of my Mentionable reasons for how I scum pick people...
Shit...

Well I think false roleclaims just postpone the inevitable, True roleclaims have a tendancy to rush nights
and claiming scum is just hilariously stupid...

And jim, I don't want super to spazz, But testing super to see if he does spazz this early in the game will let me be more sure of what I am doing later in the game...

I myself see the beginning of d1 as info gathering and Then Finding scum is the main priorit for the rest of the game...

You shouldn't vote a person just to see them spazz out. The reason you vote is to pressure and hunt scum, not to poke noobs and hurt your team.

If you don't want him to "spazz", then don't force him to. This playing against your team, which is very suspicious in my eyes.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:55:26 pm

That's how I talk...Jim......................................

The way I see it, the game will go two ways, one way is that Super doesn't freak out and ruin the game for town
and the other is a downward spiral of stupid shit...If its going to happen eventually Then why not as soon as possible to see if Super has a cooldown timer for any later games I am in with him...
And It was just a Poke,because
I was Only gauging his reaction...

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:11:00 pm

It certainly seems that way...
I really regret poking the bear now...

by spazzing I mean doing this,"WHY U OMGUSING ME I DIDN'T Do NOthing! !#$@!%!#@$@! U IS SCUM YAEUP YOU IS SCUMMMMM!!! ScUMM SCUMY SCum!!!!!!"

I'd lych someone like that, Even if it mean I was Lynched too... Anything to make sure I don't have to deal with that kind of shit...

Anyhow I thought I had to test Super to test how easy it would be to rile him up.
He's learning alittle.But not much apparantly... Did you see how easy he was, calling me scum because I voted him first? He should have asked why I didn't ask a question with my vote...

You're backtracking rather quickly, aren't you?

We're here to lynch scum and learn, not execute stupid people. In fact, the BM games are here to teach those stupid people.

SaintDraze, you're acting extremely suspicious, and quite frankly it's not surprising to see you on somebody's scumlist. That does not make it an OMGUS.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:35:34 pm

Okay then...
F%#!@$ this, going to focus on Kingmaker 4, at least I haven't dug myself into a hole in that game, Let someone else take my place
Replace me please

You can't just give up whenever you run into trouble. This is an awful habit, and you won't learn if you keep doing this.

No matter how deep the hole is, there's a way out. If you refuse to do so, you'll die in it even if it's only knee deep.

Quote from: Toaster on February 17, 2011, 09:15:49 am

Lord:  Your vote is on SaintDraze from way back in RV.  Do you still find him voteworthy or have your suspicions of him changed?

Buh, sorry I've been procrastinating on this game too long. I maintain my vote, because he's just been acting worse, as you can see above.

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 17, 2011, 10:45:38 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 10:34:02 am

lordincompoop How you know that SaintDraze's assault on Supercharazad is "playing against own team " ? You know their alignments ?

Knowing their alignments doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the intent.

SaintDraze is voting out Super not because he believes Super is scum, but because he feels Super will "spazz" later on. This is playing against his own team because he is trying to lynch (relatively) unsuspected town instead of lynching scum, which is what we're supposed to do.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 10:39:55 am

Now Painiac

...

You are being rather aggressive accusing anyone that has a doubt of me being scum of being my scum buddy...

SaintDraze, stop fabricating information. Painiac's done that one, not several times.

"That won't help you at all if I wind up getting lynched..."? What is this even supposed to mean? Do I detect blackmail?

I haven't organised or made any proper analysis for this, because I felt it was enough during RV and other people posted nearly the same reasoning as me. I plan to do that later.

If you want me to formulate some new reasoning for my previous vote, go ahead and ask.

You've been highly involved in this conflict, and you've been rather emotional through it. An analysis and proper quote-point stuff would help to strengthen your stance, convince us of your coherence, and help organise the argument.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 03:08:51 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 03:04:46 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 21, 2011, 02:53:25 pm

How? Explain please.

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

I see both of you attacking each other for reasons that don't appear (to me, at least) to have any relevance to actually finding scum, and fit more into the category of personal attacks. while incredibly annoying, it doesn't actually incriminate either of you.

To me, this would be evidence, especially if they seemed to be aware of it. Arguments must have relevance to the goal at hand, and doing this will distract us from that.

It also shows that they are unable to find good arguments, which is another piece of evidence. Under analysis, you can often find many points.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 03:19:04 pm

Yes, but that evidence applies equally to both of them, so my choices at this point are either to vote one randomly, or with-hold my vote until one of them comes out on top.

since it's almost 2 am, I'm not really in a condition to search through both of their posts to find which one has more incriminating evidence, so I'm just gonna throw out a partially random, partially gut feeling, vote.

Supercharazad
SaintDraze

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 21, 2011, 03:26:28 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 03:19:04 pm

Yes, but that evidence applies equally to both of them, so my choices at this point are either to vote one randomly, or with-hold my vote until one of them comes out on top.

since it's almost 2 am, I'm not really in a condition to search through both of their posts to find which one has more incriminating evidence, so I'm just gonna throw out a partially random, partially gut feeling, vote.

Supercharazad
SaintDraze

In other words, you don't have a reason for voting us other than each of us thinking the other is scum?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 03:39:55 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 02:43:41 pm

Jim,Lordnincompoop : Well,i wouldn't call it fascination,but i feel that asking for NK beforehand is better than WIFoming afterwards,also to be clear i asked about it only twice, that's not that much. Also i still have no idea what question is good one for D1 - we got no solid information at this point so i try catch as many inconsistencies as i can and ask about them, and by accident ( or not  :P) super "plan" was highly dependent on NK so asking about it seemed natural.

Well, not too much activity =  town fail so i hope other post soon  ::)

'Sup scum.

Why'd you feel the need to respond to my idle remark about you and your fascination with the nightkill? I would've been perfectly content if you had let it pass. But, you didn't and now I'm interested and very curious.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 03:01:40 pm

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

As I recall, you're voting for Akivara. So if you think Supercharazad is more suspicious why is your vote where it is?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 21, 2011, 03:59:26 pm

Tyberix:  OK then. 

[Be sure to double check your facts.]


[Nightkills in general:  I'd like to stress again that there is little reason to use them to pick out scum.  Scum can easily pick the "unlikely" target to throw you off, or they could take the obvious choice.  It's all WIFOM, and you should largely disregard it.  Therefore, the logical answer to any "What would you do different if player X is nightkilled?" question is "Nothing different- continue to scumhunt."]


LNCP:

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:11:30 pm

Drawing scum attention, then getting yourself assassinated, is bad. However, it shouldn't stop good play.

You can't attack and scumhunt without drawing attention.

I disagree with your premise but not your conclusion.  Townies do not fear death, because getting the attention of scum means you are worrying them, and you worry scum by being a good scumhunter and figuring them out.

[Corollary to this:  Remember what I said above- just because someone got NKed doesn't mean they were right.  It should just tell you that they were being honest with their intentions, not that their targets were correct.]

As for your question to me:  The situation is decent.  We have a fair amount of info and most people are putting in decent participation.  I think the start bodes well for the town.

Scumpicks:  #1 is Super, obviously.  His defensiveness with regards to Saint's RV and noncommittal posts on the subject, plus his unwillingness to vote Saint over his issues with him, bug me.  He then didn't back up his suspicions well.  I think I've made my case on him clear enough.

SaintDraze is spazzy and jumps all over the place, but something in my gut is telling me his intentions aren't malign.  He's far from having me convinced, but I'm not sold on his case.

Japa is too casual with his vote, and I've got a question for him.


Japa:  You've voted Super.  If he flipped town, what would that do to your suspicion of SaintDraze?


[I'm trying to be transparent with my suspicions here.  I'm not as open about Japa because I'm questioning him.  Letting him know the intent behind my question too much will give him clues how to answer it if he's scum.  If he's town, he can just answer it honestly and be fine.]



Web, can we get a vote count?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 04:05:41 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 03:39:55 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 02:43:41 pm

Jim,Lordnincompoop : Well,i wouldn't call it fascination,but i feel that asking for NK beforehand is better than WIFoming afterwards,also to be clear i asked about it only twice, that's not that much. Also i still have no idea what question is good one for D1 - we got no solid information at this point so i try catch as many inconsistencies as i can and ask about them, and by accident ( or not  :P) super "plan" was highly dependent on NK so asking about it seemed natural.

Well, not too much activity =  town fail so i hope other post soon  ::)

'Sup scum.

Why'd you feel the need to respond to my idle remark about you and your fascination with the nightkill? I would've been perfectly content if you had let it pass. But, you didn't and now I'm interested and very curious.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 03:01:40 pm

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

As I recall, you're voting for Akivara. So if you think Supercharazad is more suspicious why is your vote where it is?

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?
b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: webadict on February 21, 2011, 04:34:15 pm

Just so everyone knows, Ottofar has replaced Akivara, who has become unable to play.

Just... pretend that's how it always was.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 04:36:28 pm

I was testing your reaction.

You reacted poorly.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 04:05:41 pm

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?

So what would have been too many times? Five times? Asking 'only' twice is not an acceptable explanation, and asking about it because nothing else is going is also not an acceptable explanation. Regardless of how many times you ask, it still shows that you've got an interest in the night kill. Now who would have that? Scum, that's who.

Add onto that how you rushed to your own defense at my idle comment, and how you suddenly are calling me scum because I called you scum, it becomes pretty clear: Not only are you interested in the nightkill, but you're nervous about anyone thinking that you are.

All scummy.

The next time somebody calls you scum to test your reaction, play it cool.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 04:05:41 pm

b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

So who do you find most scummy, if it's apparently not SaintDraze and Supercharazad?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 04:36:28 pm

I was testing your reaction.

You reacted poorly.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 04:05:41 pm

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?

So what would have been too many times? Five times? Asking 'only' twice is not an acceptable explanation, and asking about it because nothing else is going is also not an acceptable explanation. Regardless of how many times you ask, it still shows that you've got an interest in the night kill. Now who would have that? Scum, that's who.

Add onto that how you rushed to your own defense at my idle comment, and how you suddenly are calling me scum because I called you scum, it becomes pretty clear: Not only are you interested in the nightkill, but you're nervous about anyone thinking that you are.

All scummy.

The next time somebody calls you scum to test your reaction, play it cool.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 04:05:41 pm

b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

So who do you find most scummy, if it's apparently not SaintDraze and Supercharazad?

Well i am interested in nightkill,i fail to see what's scummy in that. We should leave all possible questions about them ? I don't see any reason in that, also you mix my answer and NK questions in one assault. I never said that i asked about NK because nothing else was going on,that was about your "respond to idle remark". Rushing to defense : well if someone calls me scum for no apparent reason i try to prove them wrong, isn't that what's that game is about ? Or should i ignore all your attacks ? Also  "testing you reaction" is not necessary, it could be used in any situation to excuse inconvenient question or answer.

Well,i have to reread the thread since Akivara was replaced. I'm sure voting Ottofar before he speaks out isn't right thing to do so :Unvote

Second place is supercharazad so few questions for him :

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 21, 2011, 02:53:25 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 02:43:12 pm

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.

I voted SaintDraze for:

He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)



Also:

Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

Why you search for more evidence to attack SaintDraze (that's how i understand last two questions) ? Or you want to undermine other's faith in their votes - that should be done by evidence not like that. How fact that he stopped insulting you is scumtell ?

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 21, 2011, 05:26:05 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Painiac, Akivara, Jim Groovester, supercharazad, SaintDraze,
Akivara -
Japa -
Tyberix -
supercharazad - Toaster, lordnincompoop, Japa,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Tyberix,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on February 21, 2011, 06:09:36 pm

Is there any chance for an extension?

It's over 1 am here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

Well i am interested in nightkill,i fail to see what's scummy in that. We should leave all possible questions about them ? I don't see any reason in that, also you mix my answer and NK questions in one assault. I never said that i asked about NK because nothing else was going on,that was about your "respond to idle remark". Rushing to defense : well if someone calls me scum for no apparent reason i try to prove them wrong, isn't that what's that game is about ? Or should i ignore all your attacks ? Also  "testing you reaction" is not necessary, it could be used in any situation to excuse inconvenient question or answer.

If you are interested in the nightkill then why are you interested? You've heard my theory.

Also, I said I suspected you for your talk about the night kill. I never said I thought you were scum, until you decided to defend yourself from me stating I was suspicious of you. Everybody does suspicious things, but that doesn't mean they're scum.

And the hell testing reactions isn't necessary. It's another tool in the scumhunting tool belt. I used it on you, and I got results.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

Why you search for more evidence to attack SaintDraze (that's how i understand last two questions) ? Or you want to undermine other's faith in their votes - that should be done by evidence not like that. How fact that he stopped insulting you is scumtell ?

That's what he should be doing, no? He should be finding compelling arguments against his scum target and trying to convince the rest of the town that his target is scum. The problem is that he doesn't have compelling arguments. Why do you have a problem with him trying?

And now you're not voting anybody. Why not? And why is Akivara/Ottofar ahead of Supercharazad?

Hmm. I think you're scum. Unvote, Tyberix. Messes of contradictions and preemptive defenses are pretty frequently scum. Also, noncomittal and passive voting as well.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 08:44:29 pm

Quote from: Toaster on February 21, 2011, 03:59:26 pm

Japa:  You've voted Super.  If he flipped town, what would that do to your suspicion of SaintDraze?

As I said, I suspect them both equally, but don't have a lot of evidence that implicates one over the other. On the other hand, Tyberix suddenly getting very defensive about a passive comment about nightkills is an interesting development, which I will watch with interest.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 21, 2011, 08:52:02 pm

I can get behind an extension for Ottofar, so he can tell me his scum picks for D1.


Web, your vote count still has Akivara.


Japa:  So your suspicion of Draze wouldn't be changed?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 08:55:09 pm

Quote from: Toaster on February 21, 2011, 08:52:02 pm

Japa:  So your suspicion of Draze wouldn't be changed?

I would still be suspicious of him, and that suspicion would get some confirmation if Super's a townie, but the suspicion for both of them is weak as-is, and it's entirely possible that in the mean time, somebody else will act in a way that I find to be more suspicious then their little pissing match.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 21, 2011, 09:49:59 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Painiac, Ottofar, supercharazad, SaintDraze,
Ottofar -
Japa -
Tyberix - Jim Groovester,
supercharazad - Toaster, lordnincompoop, Japa,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Tyberix,

Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central. 2 Extensions Requested.

Day is Extended To Wednesday 9 PM.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 22, 2011, 04:31:41 am

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 08:55:09 pm

Quote from: Toaster on February 21, 2011, 08:52:02 pm

Japa:  So your suspicion of Draze wouldn't be changed?

I would still be suspicious of him, and that suspicion would get some confirmation if Super's a townie, but the suspicion for both of them is weak as-is, and it's entirely possible that in the mean time, somebody else will act in a way that I find to be more suspicious then their little pissing match.

You speak of watching and voting as if you were an observer on the sidelines. Why don't you try to provoke or investigate Tyberix then, if your interest has been sparked?

Tyberix, your sudden and heated reaction is suspicious. Explain yourself.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

...

If you are interested in the nightkill then why are you interested? You've heard my theory.

Theory that is what ? Asking "innocent" questions ? You want me to ask "Are you a cop so i could kill you tonight ?" or something like that ? I still don't know what's wrong with asking about NK it's important part of the game isn't it ? So why i should not ask about it ? I could answer with your own words :

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

And the hell testing reactions (asking questions) isn't necessary. It's another tool in the scumhunting tool belt. I used it on you, and I got results.

Asking for NK is one of possible questions so i just asked it without any plan to get expected answer - just to look into it for scumminess.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Also, I said I suspected you for your talk about the night kill. I never said I thought you were scum, until you decided to defend yourself from me stating I was suspicious of you. Everybody does suspicious things, but that doesn't mean they're scum.

So who do you call scum ? People who you found no evidence on ? Or people who attack you or your partner ? How else then you find who is scum other than searching for suspicious actions ?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

That's what he should be doing, no? He should be finding compelling arguments against his scum target and trying to convince the rest of the town that his target is scum. The problem is that he doesn't have compelling arguments. Why do you have a problem with him trying?

That's not that he tries bothers me , but the fact that asking these questions to people who vote on him could mean only one of two things :
 a)He needs more arguments on SaintDraze , but  he shouldn't ask other to find it for him - his attack is baseless if he don't have anything to support it with.
b)He wants to change others votes - that's nothing wrong - but again he should do it himself! In this situation it's bad looking version of : "Your vote doesn't suite me : change it please, i don't like being voted" - no convincing arguments,no pointing out errors , he essentially tells them to find defense for him!

I'm not voting because i feel Ottofar should say something before i vote him - my reason's why i voted him are still same as before since he not answered to them he is still my prime suspect, but voting now that he's replaced feels weird to me before he speaks out.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Hmm. I think you're scum. Unvote, Tyberix. Messes of contradictions and preemptive defenses are pretty frequently scum. Also, noncomittal and passive voting as well.

I would be happy to see these contradictions you found. I agree that maybe i put too little stress on votes but when i feel is should change it i do it without doubt - sometimes i forget that if it was pressure vote it's nullified :\

Lordnincompoop: Well i find it annoying when somebody accuse me when i try to start the discussion going on or answering questions. I felt  like i should answer when asked so i just done so. If i ignore all questions that's no better than giving up and saying that i should be lynched. If i won't deflect attacks on me, scum could as well attack me for nothing without consequences. The silent watcher stance is worst , we never find scum this way - so i respond in the best way i can.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on February 22, 2011, 07:34:15 am

Reading the thread, I'm okay with the SaintDraze lynch.

But I think Supercharazard is also scummy.
Because

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 pm

SaintDraze - Why did you vote me before the game even began? Are you looking to lynch a townie? Are you scum?

He's defensive.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 11:59:21 am

Currently, I'm going to vote Saint the second he messes up again.

Toaster: Yes, I got the first red vote, but I voting on the very first post of the game... That's scummy. I DO believe Saint is scum, but I want to make sure before I vote.

Why? It's not like you couldn't change your vote.
Passive.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 12:14:44 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:07:46 pm

It's RVS

And yes I may have been provoking you but It was more of a test then a taunt...
The past two games you were in were more then "excitement" super, It was being a bad player.
This is such a drastic change that I think you are satisfied with whatever role you got...
And you just want to let everyone question each other and only answer questions posed to you...
[color,Red]Supercharazad[/color]

Now I think your scum...

Ah, I see. From what I can tell easily from your actions:

You want me lynched (RV on first post, attempting to create an OMGUS situation)
You are scum (General scummyness, I think everyone knows what I'm talking about)
You were excited when you did not see me vote you (Realised you made a mistake, thought you were off the hook)


I had doubts, but now they have fallen away and died, for these reasons, I am sorry to say:

Vote: SaintDraze

I will not stop until you are lynched, You have confirmed yourself as scum in my eyes.

...Everyone knows what I'm talking about. Nah. You still gotta say it.
Also, "Sorry to say". Passive.
And RV vote is a scumtell? Random Vote in the first post?

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 01:17:20 pm

To be honest, my reasons for voting SaintDraze are:

I'm pretty sure he tried to make an OMGUS defense (ooh, is that a real mafia term? It could be a viable strategy)
He randomly insults me (I'm guessing he wants me to make mistakes, and angry people do)
He seems to be subtly trying to get me lynched (See 1, see 2, his random votes on me ect.)

As I said before, I'm fairly certain that he is scum.

To be Honest?

---

I'm going now. But I will return.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 22, 2011, 08:59:01 am

Tyberix:  Asking too much about NKs smells of you fishing for a good target and how people would react to a certain selection.


Ottofar:  What are your other scum picks?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

...

If you are interested in the nightkill then why are you interested? You've heard my theory.

Theory that is what ? Asking "innocent" questions ? You want me to ask "Are you a cop so i could kill you tonight ?" or something like that ? I still don't know what's wrong with asking about NK it's important part of the game isn't it ? So why i should not ask about it ? I could answer with your own words :

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

And the hell testing reactions (asking questions) isn't necessary. It's another tool in the scumhunting tool belt. I used it on you, and I got results.

Asking for NK is one of possible questions so i just asked it without any plan to get expected answer - just to look into it for scumminess.

Oh, you. You've gone and done one of my favorite pet peeves players do in this game.

Using my own words against me.

Do you know how many scum have done that? Enough.

Here's the thing: I don't care. I don't have to.

What were you hoping to find from that question? What would you have considered scummy in response to your questions about the night kill?

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Also, I said I suspected you for your talk about the night kill. I never said I thought you were scum, until you decided to defend yourself from me stating I was suspicious of you. Everybody does suspicious things, but that doesn't mean they're scum.

So who do you call scum ? People who you found no evidence on ? Or people who attack you or your partner ? How else then you find who is scum other than searching for suspicious actions ?

Are the wild accusations supposed to scare me? Drop it. Right now. It's not helping your case at all. And if you want to say that I'm scum, maybe you should work my name into your list of suspicions. Actually, don't, that's me laying a trap for you. If you did I would accuse you of being defensive and suspecting the people who are attacking you for that reason alone.

My point was this: people will say they suspect you all the time. Unless they ask you a question about it, or they decide to vote you for it, you should let it pass. You have more important things to do than defend yourself from every little bit of suspicion.

The problem with what you did is that you rushed to defend yourself from the little bit of suspicion I laid out. You should have, instead, used the time to go find scum. It makes you look like you're interested in keeping yourself alive over finding scum, which is a very scummy attitude.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

That's not that he tries bothers me , but the fact that asking these questions to people who vote on him could mean only one of two things :
 a)He needs more arguments on SaintDraze , but  he shouldn't ask other to find it for him - his attack is baseless if he don't have anything to support it with.
b)He wants to change others votes - that's nothing wrong - but again he should do it himself! In this situation it's bad looking version of : "Your vote doesn't suite me : change it please, i don't like being voted" - no convincing arguments,no pointing out errors , he essentially tells them to find defense for him!

I'm not voting because i feel Ottofar should say something before i vote him - my reason's why i voted him are still same as before since he not answered to them he is still my prime suspect, but voting now that he's replaced feels weird to me before he speaks out.

It's funny you have all these reasons for suspecting Supercharazad. But then you say your top suspicion is Ottofar. And I have no idea what you are voting him for. What you were voting him for.

You have a reasonless top suspicion and then you have lots of reasons for your second pick. That's inconsistent. Inconsistency like that is scummy.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Hmm. I think you're scum. Unvote, Tyberix. Messes of contradictions and preemptive defenses are pretty frequently scum. Also, noncomittal and passive voting as well.

I would be happy to see these contradictions you found. I agree that maybe i put too little stress on votes but when i feel is should change it i do it without doubt - sometimes i forget that if it was pressure vote it's nullified :\

Okay.

You have no reasons for your top pick.
You have many reasons for your second pick.
You are not voting your top pick.

There's your mess of contradictions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 04:32:01 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

What were you hoping to find from that question? What would you have considered scummy in response to your questions about the night kill?

I don't know, i'm not assuming that the answer will be scummy - first i need to read it,and since besides these questions were rather to know how to proceed not to find scummy answer about NK that is yet to happen.(that's why i asked IC...) Maybe if the asked would sound strangely certain or exactly opposite i would have the point to start attacking them. If no such thing would happen then i would simply acknowledge answer and go on. It's hard to say what exactly i would consider scummy there's too many things that could be contained in an answer.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

Are the wild accusations supposed to scare me? Drop it. Right now. It's not helping your case at all. And if you want to say that I'm scum, maybe you should work my name into your list of suspicions. Actually, don't, that's me laying a trap for you. If you did I would accuse you of being defensive and suspecting the people who are attacking you for that reason alone.

My point was this: people will say they suspect you all the time. Unless they ask you a question about it, or they decide to vote you for it, you should let it pass. You have more important things to do than defend yourself from every little bit of suspicion.

The problem with what you did is that you rushed to defend yourself from the little bit of suspicion I laid out. You should have, instead, used the time to go find scum. It makes you look like you're interested in keeping yourself alive over finding scum, which is a very scummy attitude.

That wasn't meant to be aggressive - that part just made as much sense as saying that scummy behavior is not scummy. I agree that i should go after someone i targeted instead of arguing over that but if they not responding i don't see anything wrong with clearing doubts about my play. Also "if you vote me - you're scum" is funny way of telling that you're not really interested in my vote.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

Okay.

You have no reasons for your top pick.
You have many reasons for your second pick.
You are not voting your top pick.

There's your mess of contradictions.

Well first of all voting super at this point would end up with no-lynch situation and i'm not sure starting it is a good idea.I probably won't post before day end again so i couldn't change me vote even if i want to. Also as i said before i'm still waiting for Ottofar to say something more. Besides than i'm not really convinced that i should vote Supercharazad over SaintDraze - both of them acted scummy and i'm still not sure which one is more convincing/scummy/inconsistent. Also in the case of Supercharazad scummy behavior:  i feel like lots of these by super/saint are less important than few scumtells done by others - they just play like that :\

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 04:57:31 pm

You have all these excuses for why you're not voting anybody. When are you going to stop giving me excuses and vote the people you say you suspect?

This is noncommittal, passive newbscum crap. I've got you pegged.

Scummy scum scum scum.

Scumface.

Scumbucket.

Scummy McScummypants.

Scumbottom Scumworth.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 22, 2011, 05:08:07 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

You have no reasons for your top pick.
You have many reasons for your second pick.
You are not voting your top pick.

There's your mess of contradictions.

That is not enough, write a paragraph on each reason. Or are you scum, Jim?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 05:17:10 pm

A paragraph isn't required. The only thing that is is clarity. And I have been clear.

If you have questions about my reasoning, ask them.

If you don't, stop complaining.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 22, 2011, 05:23:23 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 22, 2011, 05:08:07 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

You have no reasons for your top pick.
You have many reasons for your second pick.
You are not voting your top pick.

There's your mess of contradictions.

That is not enough, write a paragraph on each reason. Or are you scum, Jim?

This is incredibly hypocritical.

I have yet to see some from you, Super. Where are they? Why do you so adamantly refuse to elaborate and clarify, or answer any questions?

You are scum, unable to back claims up because you know they have no depth. You feel the pressure on you, and your response is to go into denial.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 22, 2011, 05:25:02 pm

Supercharazad, you've went and jumped to Tyberix's defence awfully quick, what's your reasoning?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 22, 2011, 05:25:37 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 22, 2011, 05:23:23 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 22, 2011, 05:08:07 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

You have no reasons for your top pick.
You have many reasons for your second pick.
You are not voting your top pick.

There's your mess of contradictions.

That is not enough, write a paragraph on each reason. Or are you scum, Jim?

This is incredibly hypocritical.

I have yet to see some from you, Super. Where are they? Why do you so adamantly refuse to elaborate and clarify, or answer any questions?

You are scum, unable to back claims up because you know they have no depth. You feel the pressure on you, and your response is to go into denial.

Actually, I was imitating those who told ME that I had to write a paragraph per reason.

I do answer every question directed at me, so long as I see it.



I did not jump to Tyberix's defense, I was merely imitating.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 22, 2011, 05:28:28 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 22, 2011, 05:25:37 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 22, 2011, 05:23:23 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 22, 2011, 05:08:07 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

You have no reasons for your top pick.
You have many reasons for your second pick.
You are not voting your top pick.

There's your mess of contradictions.

That is not enough, write a paragraph on each reason. Or are you scum, Jim?

This is incredibly hypocritical.

I have yet to see some from you, Super. Where are they? Why do you so adamantly refuse to elaborate and clarify, or answer any questions?

You are scum, unable to back claims up because you know they have no depth. You feel the pressure on you, and your response is to go into denial.

Actually, I was imitating those who told ME that I had to write a paragraph per reason.

I do answer every question directed at me, so long as I see it.

Then answer mine. Your reasons are still unclear and need elaboration.

If you are not willing, at least provide me with reasons instead of ignoring me outright.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 22, 2011, 06:39:47 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on February 21, 2011, 02:25:42 pm

Painiac: As scum, what would you do in this situation?

I don't know, I am horrible at hiding things. I don't really enjoy playing as scum. I can only guess.

Well, I would probably do some delicate scapegoating under false scumhunting, and I would try to vote for shortening. I would be trying to be active and pro-town, with some scumhunting and whatever. I would lie to myself about being townie, so I would appear in my mind as townie. Everything else would come somewhat natural then.

unvote SaintDraze, vote Supercharazad

Okay, you are rising as my main suspect. Can you explain why you are suspecting Jim - you have FoS-ed him - so quickly? I'm feeling something like chainsawing there...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on February 23, 2011, 03:14:02 am

Quote from: Painiac on February 22, 2011, 06:39:47 pm

unvote SaintDraze, vote Supercharazad

Okay, you are rising as my main suspect.

Why.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 23, 2011, 03:45:36 am

Quote from: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 05:44:29 am

Okay, while I was conviced Supercharazad was being newbie, it looks like he is another scum.

You are acting weird about RVS stage. Jim has stated some rules about it in his first post. I will say after him: random vote is normal thing. Yet it is your pretty much only claim why SaintDraze is scum. It is weak. It's like you wanted to bandwagon to him while you coulnd't find arguments.

You had asked many questions in your first post. Most of them was, well, unconclusive. That or that. In your second post you didn't comment on any answer for your questions. Even on SaintDraze. It seems like you didn't care about questions and answers. So, it looks you only pretended to do any scumhunt. When everyone piled up on SaintDraze, you didn't look for any clues. You were looking how vote on him while not being suspected. You saw you couldn't do anything, so you could only throw him under bus.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 11:59:21 am

Currently, I'm going to vote Saint the second he messes up again.

And again, your only argument is his vote in randomvoting stage. You know, he had MOVED his vote when you had posted, and ramdomvoted me instead. You are arguing something, which existed for, hell, 5 minutes in game? Maybe 15? Your argument doesn't make sense. He wasn't trying lynching you and you know it as well. Well, you probably remember it so clear, because it gave you pressure, and if you are scum, it isn't weird why you can't forget it.

You are voting for shortening, because you are bored? Hey, my questioning about shortening had some effects, I see. You was feeling pressured, and wanted to end it, when you saw chance. That was your reason.

Your last post... NK'ed or not, talking about it spread only WIFOM. You can't find scum from this. That question is somewhat scummy.

Quote from: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 05:45:03 am

Also, FoS Supercharazad.

I'm not sure of SaintDraze being scum... He could simply made some mistakes as newbie. So, if I am not voting SaintDraze, then it was natural to vote Supercharazad instead.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2011, 09:36:06 am

Ottofar:  You didn't answer my question...

Quote from: Toaster on February 22, 2011, 08:59:01 am

Ottofar:  What are your other scum picks?

...but now I realize it sucks because you gave me two in your post.  Let me amend it:

Ottofar, could you please state why you're leaving your vote on SaintDraze?  Your FoS to Super is clear enough.


Super:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 22, 2011, 05:25:37 pm

I did not jump to Tyberix's defense, I was merely imitating.

Ah, but you did.   You attacked his attacker, indirectly defending Tyberix.

[This is what's known as the Chainsaw Defense.  Defending someone directly that later flips scum points all eyes toward you, so some scum use a less direct method.  Say TownieA attacks ScumA.  ScumB then attacks TownieA in order to discredit any attack points TownieA makes, which indirectly defends ScumA.  It's a strong scumtell when ScumA dies and flips scum.]


[Painiac:  Voting for a shorten when there is active discussion is a very scummy move, as is any attempt to stifle discussion.  However, one of the best tips for new scum players is what you just said- convince yourself you are actually town before you read the thread, and force yourself to actually scum hunt.  It's far easier to be convincing if you convince yourself first.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 23, 2011, 11:41:49 am

You guys don't seem to get this:

I WASN'T BEING SERIOUS.

I was imitating Lordnincompoop.

Painiac, why is it that you don't vote Saint because he is "newbie", but do vote me, when I am much newer than him?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on February 23, 2011, 02:03:49 pm

Sorry guys, had a unexpectedly busy day.
Included haircuts, dinners with relatives, and new clothes.

Extremely tired  I am now. Sleep, I will.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 23, 2011, 02:57:39 pm

Supercharazad: while SaintDraze made unclear scumtells - some of them were characteristic to newbie townies too - you have done some clearly scummy things. It's hard to decide, you know. I was thinking before he was scum, but when I'm looking at it now, he could be in his usual mood - he wasn't serious at most times, trying to joke and all that. He maybe took some arguments too deep, and that hurt him somehow, and that's why he made some od these mistakes? Dunno. He is hard to read for me, I am playing it more seriously, so I have hard time dealing with him. So, I think that's the reason he got my vote first. But as you can see, it is not reason to lynch him.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 23, 2011, 03:18:31 pm

I'm guessing it's another D1 lynch for me? Geez, these BMs are unlucky for me :/

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2011, 03:59:22 pm

[Your back may be to the wall, but don't give up!  Keep up the scum hunting efforts and avoiding the urge to give up is the best way to convince people that others are better to vote than you.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2011, 04:17:10 pm

The only way anybody looks town in this game is by scumhunting.

Do that, even when you're ahead in votes, and you might just turn the tide against you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 23, 2011, 04:41:16 pm

The problem is that I have exactly no leads.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2011, 05:21:00 pm

Well, that's not my problem is it?

You might start by asking everybody who's voting you to restate their cases. Then, if there are things you don't like about them (beyond that they're voting you; that's not going to convince anybody), you can ask them about it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on February 24, 2011, 09:30:50 am

Went alpine skiing today. Post incoming shortly. Within two hours, probably.
PFP
(posting from phone)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2011, 11:18:19 am

Quote from: Ottofar on February 24, 2011, 09:30:50 am

Went alpine skiing today. Post incoming shortly. Within two hours, probably.
PFP
(posting from phone)

And you were doing so well.


Web: Shouldn't the day be over?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 11:58:13 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 24, 2011, 11:18:19 am

Quote from: Ottofar on February 24, 2011, 09:30:50 am

Went alpine skiing today. Post incoming shortly. Within two hours, probably.
PFP
(posting from phone)

And you were doing so well.


Web: Shouldn't the day be over?

Shouldn't it have been over on Monday?


Painiac, please restate your reasons for voting me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2011, 12:00:06 pm

Since we're both here,

Supercharazad, please re-state your reasons for voting SaintDraze

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 12:58:15 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 24, 2011, 12:00:06 pm

Since we're both here,

Supercharazad, please re-state your reasons for voting SaintDraze

He seems suspicious to me.
He gave up (scumtell)
If he is town, he's useless as he doesn't actually scumhunt.



Put simply, if he's town, we lose little, if he's mafia, we win a lot.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2011, 01:18:31 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 12:58:15 pm

He seems suspicious to me.

Oh? explain? 'seeming suspicious' isn't a particularly good reason. do you have anything more than that?

For example, you over-react greatly to a random vote, and then single mindedly pursue a single person with nothing more than 'suspicion', not to mention blindly copying other people's questions, quickly falling back and claiming not to be serious, as well as copy/pasting reasons willy-nilly from the list of scumtells.

see? explaining reasons is easy enough when you put your head to it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2011, 01:20:19 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 12:58:15 pm

He seems suspicious to me.
He gave up (scumtell)
If he is town, he's useless as he doesn't actually scumhunt.

Yep, Japa said it. You need more than that. Also,

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 12:58:15 pm

Put simply, if he's town, we lose little, if he's mafia, we win a lot.

This is a crappy rationale. We might as well go around lynching everybody because on the off chance they're scum we'd benefit greatly. That's a pretty terrific way to lose quickly.

Where the hell did SaintDraze go?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2011, 01:21:45 pm

I'll end Day soon. Had a busy night. Mostly because I forgot, and I didn't update this morning because today is Thursday, and if I updated today, I'd be breaking the promise and heart of a little girl I met in kindergarten.

See, she had moved to my home town somewhere between learning G and H. She was very pretty, so during naptime, I would lay by her and smell her hair. It smelled like strawberries. The teacher noticed the pseudo-stalker behavior and contacted my parents.

On my way home, I noticed she rode the same bus as me. I sat behind her, hoping to smell the same berry scent from naptime. Unfortunately, she turned around and called me weird, at which I pulled her hair and punched her in the face. The bus driver informed my parents I was never allowed on the bus again.

Luckily, the next day at recess, I found her and asked her to marry me, to which she replied, "Yeah, how about the Thursday after for-never?" Initially confused, I later assumed she was using a calendar other than my standard Gregorian one. I was delighted.

Since then, I have repeatedly sent her my contact information to her several various email accounts she keeps setting up without notifying me, surprising her with lunch, and wishing her good night while watching her on my video baby monitor I keep in my house, all in hopes that today is the Thursday after for-never.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2011, 01:26:01 pm

Cool story, bro.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on February 24, 2011, 01:38:16 pm

Why I decided to keep my vote on SD

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 05:56:34 pm

sigh... Time To Poke the Bear....
SuperCharazad
Now to see what happens...

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:02:10 pm

Do you know why I Voted supercharazad in the beginning?
It had something to do with the game that you got replaced out of...

Intentional annoying.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

Its not a personal thing at all... Super just always happens to spazz out whenever someone votes him, Seeing that it wasn't really that bad I take it that he is either cautious because he might be scum, or He might be learning...

And Jim, are you saying that Japa is a cop? that question wasn't really phrased right...

Defensive,

Kinda fishing-esque, and "Don't attack me for this question, even if it is scummy".

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

, If super does spazz LP's going to lynch vote him...

Practically admits he's looking just to lynch someone.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:11:00 pm

It certainly seems that way...
I really regret poking the bear now...

by spazzing I mean doing this,"WHY U OMGUSING ME I DIDN'T Do NOthing! !#$@!%!#@$@! U IS SCUM YAEUP YOU IS SCUMMMMM!!! ScUMM SCUMY SCum!!!!!!"

Regrets it for the attention.
Also More trying to make SC angry.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on February 24, 2011, 01:38:44 pm

Whoops. Aimed for the 'preview'.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 24, 2011, 01:41:23 pm

What Japa and Jim said.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2011, 01:20:19 pm

Where the hell did SaintDraze go?

I assume he gave up after seeing the bandwagon.

Quote from: Ottofar on February 24, 2011, 01:38:44 pm

Whoops. Aimed for the 'preview'.

You can just use a third post for content, or submit a revised one again.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on February 24, 2011, 02:07:15 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 10:39:55 am

I don't regret poking the bear because super attacked me... because he didn't really attack me...
I regret it because It was a stupid mistake...

Trying to cover up.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 11:58:37 am

:O Good job super you might not be the most likely first lynch after all =D

He isn't voting me? really?
I thought he would vote me... wonder why not...
Super
Why so reasonable and reserved? This is such a drastic change from your last two games...

More taunting.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:07:46 pm

And yes I may have been provoking you but It was more of a test then a taunt...

Right.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:58:14 pm

Calm down. Think clearly.
Don't want anyone spazzing out now do we?

And super, please don't spazz out...

Taunting, "Please don't vote me"

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 01:25:04 pm

Super I haven't insulted you...

I already town tyberix the answer to that question...

Lies.
Also, what?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Super probably isn't scum since he seems over eager to lynch me...
scum wouldn't want to be very visible when they are trying get someone lynched
Makes them look bad when the lynched flips townie...

What would your plan be once I flip Town?

For the upper part I'd lynch either of Saint or super that survives, assuming the lynchee flips scum.

And the lower part is that "...When I'm town"

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 06:26:58 pm

Well My scum picks are Toaster and japa for not voting me...

God I really sucked this game...

Ridiculous. Also emotional appeal.

---

That's why I kept Akivara's vote on him, and am keeping it there still.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 02:19:54 pm

Yup, that clarified quite a few of my reasons too.


Anyway, now that we know Saint is most likely scum (and if he isn't, we lose little, he isn't actually scumhunting), I'm going to move onto someone else.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2011, 01:20:19 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 12:58:15 pm

He seems suspicious to me.
He gave up (scumtell)
If he is town, he's useless as he doesn't actually scumhunt.

Yep, Japa said it. You need more than that. Also,

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 12:58:15 pm

Put simply, if he's town, we lose little, if he's mafia, we win a lot.

This is a crappy rationale. We might as well go around lynching everybody because on the off chance they're scum we'd benefit greatly. That's a pretty terrific way to lose quickly.

Where the hell did SaintDraze go?

So, why is it that you are attacking me to defend Saintdraze? Chainsaw much?

Explain yourself.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2011, 02:23:26 pm

I'd ask for reasons regardless of who you voted for.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 02:33:28 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 24, 2011, 02:23:26 pm

I'd ask for reasons regardless of who you voted for.

I wasn't talking to you ;)

Are you really Jim in disguise? :O

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2011, 02:36:27 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 24, 2011, 02:23:26 pm

I'd ask for reasons regardless of who you voted for.

It's like it came straight out of my mouth.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 02:19:54 pm

So, why is it that you are attacking me to defend Saintdraze? Chainsaw much?

Explain yourself.

If you have crappy reasons for voting anybody, I'm going to ask about them regardless of who you're voting for.

Is there any specific reason why you're singling me out of all your many attackers?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2011, 02:38:49 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2011, 02:36:27 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 24, 2011, 02:23:26 pm

I'd ask for reasons regardless of who you voted for.

It's like it came straight out of my mouth.

hey, I have to, if I want to have any of my own reasons for doing things, otherwise I'd just be piggybacking on you, and we can't have that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 24, 2011, 02:51:20 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 11:58:13 am

Painiac, please restate your reasons for voting me.

With pleasure.

Quote from: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 05:44:29 am

Okay, while I was conviced Supercharazad was being newbie, it looks like he is another scum.

You are acting weird about RVS stage. Jim has stated some rules about it in his first post. I will say after him: random vote is normal thing. Yet it is your pretty much only claim why SaintDraze is scum. It is weak. It's like you wanted to bandwagon to him while you coulnd't find arguments.

You had asked many questions in your first post. Most of them was, well, unconclusive. That or that. In your second post you didn't comment on any answer for your questions. Even on SaintDraze. It seems like you didn't care about questions and answers. So, it looks you only pretended to do any scumhunt. When everyone piled up on SaintDraze, you didn't look for any clues. You were looking how vote on him while not being suspected. You saw you couldn't do anything, so you could only throw him under bus.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 11:59:21 am

Currently, I'm going to vote Saint the second he messes up again.

And again, your only argument is his vote in randomvoting stage. You know, he had MOVED his vote when you had posted, and ramdomvoted me instead. You are arguing something, which existed for, hell, 5 minutes in game? Maybe 15? Your argument doesn't make sense. He wasn't trying lynching you and you know it as well. Well, you probably remember it so clear, because it gave you pressure, and if you are scum, it isn't weird why you can't forget it.

You are voting for shortening, because you are bored? Hey, my questioning about shortening had some effects, I see. You was feeling pressured, and wanted to end it, when you saw chance. That was your reason.

Your last post... NK'ed or not, talking about it spread only WIFOM. You can't find scum from this. That question is somewhat scummy.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 24, 2011, 03:05:26 pm

Looks like there was another extend ? Let's see what happened then..
Sorry for lurking internet was bit hard to reach here :|

Rereading now, scumpicks/questions in a moment

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 03:07:52 pm

Quote from: Painiac on February 24, 2011, 02:51:20 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 11:58:13 am

Painiac, please restate your reasons for voting me.

With pleasure.

Quote from: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 05:44:29 am

Okay, while I was conviced Supercharazad was being newbie, it looks like he is another scum.

You are acting weird about RVS stage. Jim has stated some rules about it in his first post. I will say after him: random vote is normal thing. Yet it is your pretty much only claim why SaintDraze is scum. It is weak. It's like you wanted to bandwagon to him while you coulnd't find arguments.

You had asked many questions in your first post. Most of them was, well, unconclusive. That or that. In your second post you didn't comment on any answer for your questions. Even on SaintDraze. It seems like you didn't care about questions and answers. So, it looks you only pretended to do any scumhunt. When everyone piled up on SaintDraze, you didn't look for any clues. You were looking how vote on him while not being suspected. You saw you couldn't do anything, so you could only throw him under bus.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 11:59:21 am

Currently, I'm going to vote Saint the second he messes up again.

And again, your only argument is his vote in randomvoting stage. You know, he had MOVED his vote when you had posted, and ramdomvoted me instead. You are arguing something, which existed for, hell, 5 minutes in game? Maybe 15? Your argument doesn't make sense. He wasn't trying lynching you and you know it as well. Well, you probably remember it so clear, because it gave you pressure, and if you are scum, it isn't weird why you can't forget it.

You are voting for shortening, because you are bored? Hey, my questioning about shortening had some effects, I see. You was feeling pressured, and wanted to end it, when you saw chance. That was your reason.

Your last post... NK'ed or not, talking about it spread only WIFOM. You can't find scum from this. That question is somewhat scummy.

So, you don't care that he stated himself that it was just to annoy me, he';s being trying to annoy me for the whole game and that he gave up? (which by the way, is a scumtell, as is your lovely defense of him)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 24, 2011, 03:36:50 pm

Supercharazad Why you turn every single attack on you with the same question ? Looks like you're out of arguments to defend yourself.  Also why you suddenly throw the "i'm not serious" at the time you're being first to lynch ? You need solid proofs now,not the silly comments if you want to change votes. Tell me your prime reason why you vote Super - exactly one, i know the decision is based on many but you should have something that's most disturbing to you in his behavior.

SaintDraze Bit old but caught my attention so i bring these back:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 10:39:55 am

I don't regret poking the bear because super attacked me... because he didn't really attack me...
I regret it because It was a stupid mistake...

How attacking him was mistake ? You wanted him to attack you ?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 11:58:37 am

I thought he would vote me... wonder why not...
Super
Why so reasonable and reserved? This is such a drastic change from your last two games...

You feel you should be voted for attacking him ?

And i would be happy to see some recent post form you. ( i know bit hypocritical )

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 04:10:05 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 24, 2011, 03:36:50 pm

Supercharazad Why you turn every single attack on you with the same question ? Looks like you're out of arguments to defend yourself.  Also why you suddenly throw the "i'm not serious" at the time you're being first to lynch ? You need solid proofs now,not the silly comments if you want to change votes. Tell me your prime reason why you vote Super - exactly one, i know the decision is based on many but you should have something that's most disturbing to you in his behavior.

SaintDraze Bit old but caught my attention so i bring these back:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 10:39:55 am

I don't regret poking the bear because super attacked me... because he didn't really attack me...
I regret it because It was a stupid mistake...

How attacking him was mistake ? You wanted him to attack you ?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 11:58:37 am

I thought he would vote me... wonder why not...
Super
Why so reasonable and reserved? This is such a drastic change from your last two games...

You feel you should be voted for attacking him ?

And i would be happy to see some recent post form you. ( i know bit hypocritical )

My prime reason?

I don't like him, he REALLY irritates me

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2011, 04:28:26 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 04:10:05 pm

I don't like him, he REALLY irritates me

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 16, 2011, 06:05:29 pm

Keep any personal beefs you have with other players out of the game.

Just because you don't like somebody doesn't make them scum.

Discard that mindset immediately. You'll get absolutely nowhere with it.

Tyberix: You're still not voting anybody, confirming to me that you are passive scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2011, 04:36:02 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 03:07:52 pm

So, you don't care that he stated himself that it was just to annoy me, he';s being trying to annoy me for the whole game and that he gave up? (which by the way, is a scumtell, as is your lovely defense of him)

While what you mention is indeed scummy of him...

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 04:10:05 pm

My prime reason?

I don't like him, he REALLY irritates me

...that is also a terrible reason to vote someone.  Leave your disagreements with others out of the game- it clouds your vision.  Look at any game with JanusTwoface and Org in it for a good example of that.

I'm content to leave my vote on you, since you are unable to back up your vote sufficiently.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on February 24, 2011, 05:03:46 pm

Jim Yeah, for sure as scum i would not vote someone on D1 especially in situation where votes are nearly tied...

Supercharazad  you're still not serious if that's your way of trying to not bring more suspicions on yourself it's not working. I shouldn't say that but i'm still not sure who of you two was more scummy. But you made it clear that you want him dead because he annoys you and attacks you, you do not see loss in mislynch , counter many arguments with "why not saint?", you play emotional appeal card ("i get lynched so often...", "i'm newbie..."),  get over reactive on attacks/RV , you seemed to prolong the fight with saint draze till he got some votes, you do not want to vote in RVS to not get attacked , your argumetns against Super are mainly build around the fact that he attacks you, postponing scumhunt on tomorrow , few scummy things below:

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 18, 2011, 02:36:43 pm

I would have still voted him, if he had not voted me.

and then :

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 20, 2011, 06:05:44 am

Why would I look to vote him without being suspected?

Not so consistent isn't it  ?

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 23, 2011, 04:41:16 pm

The problem is that I have exactly no leads.

Then how the hell you're sure SaintDraze is scum ? Or is it a way to avoid questions ?

And i still want serious answer about that reason...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2011, 05:22:41 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 24, 2011, 05:03:46 pm

Jim Yeah, for sure as scum i would not vote someone on D1 especially in situation where votes are nearly tied...

But that's exactly what you just did. How does that contradict my accusation?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Painiac on February 24, 2011, 06:55:01 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 03:07:52 pm

Quote from: Painiac on February 24, 2011, 02:51:20 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 24, 2011, 11:58:13 am

Painiac, please restate your reasons for voting me.

With pleasure.

Quote from: Painiac on February 20, 2011, 05:44:29 am

Okay, while I was conviced Supercharazad was being newbie, it looks like he is another scum.

You are acting weird about RVS stage. Jim has stated some rules about it in his first post. I will say after him: random vote is normal thing. Yet it is your pretty much only claim why SaintDraze is scum. It is weak. It's like you wanted to bandwagon to him while you coulnd't find arguments.

You had asked many questions in your first post. Most of them was, well, unconclusive. That or that. In your second post you didn't comment on any answer for your questions. Even on SaintDraze. It seems like you didn't care about questions and answers. So, it looks you only pretended to do any scumhunt. When everyone piled up on SaintDraze, you didn't look for any clues. You were looking how vote on him while not being suspected. You saw you couldn't do anything, so you could only throw him under bus.

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 17, 2011, 11:59:21 am

Currently, I'm going to vote Saint the second he messes up again.

And again, your only argument is his vote in randomvoting stage. You know, he had MOVED his vote when you had posted, and ramdomvoted me instead. You are arguing something, which existed for, hell, 5 minutes in game? Maybe 15? Your argument doesn't make sense. He wasn't trying lynching you and you know it as well. Well, you probably remember it so clear, because it gave you pressure, and if you are scum, it isn't weird why you can't forget it.

You are voting for shortening, because you are bored? Hey, my questioning about shortening had some effects, I see. You was feeling pressured, and wanted to end it, when you saw chance. That was your reason.

Your last post... NK'ed or not, talking about it spread only WIFOM. You can't find scum from this. That question is somewhat scummy.

So, you don't care that he stated himself that it was just to annoy me, he';s being trying to annoy me for the whole game and that he gave up? (which by the way, is a scumtell, as is your lovely defense of him)

Believe me, he is my second person on list. He is quite scummy. I could even provide more arguments than you why he can be scum. But you see, I can't really say that him annoying you was scummy or newby. He is your buddy, I suppose. So, he could be simply careless and was joking around for the hell of it. It's natural for him, I guess... It's not like I'm defending him. You are simply more suspicious than him.

Yea, gave up is scumtell. But he could simply RiA because he couldn't see any other way, and resigned. I can't tell anymore.

Title: Re: [SIGN-UPS: FULL!] Beginner's Mafia XXI
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2011, 10:10:26 pm

The men surrounded the fire they created. They had carved a series of oogas on the wall to show who was being... eaten, I suppose. They were hungry in addition to trying to find out who captured them here.

"Ooga... OOGA OOGA!" yelled supercharazad. That sort of talk was blasphemous. The gasps from the others showed his mistake only too late.

They surrounded him and took their pointy-sticks in hand, skewering him violently, switching from slow-mo to fast-mo to make it really dramatic and action-packed.

The corpse was then eaten.

"Ooga ooga ooga ooga," commented one. Everyone agreed. He WAS too tasty to have trapped them here. They yawned and went to sleep, though, because that was customary, and nobody wanted to be rude.

Vote Count
------------------------
lordnincompoop -
SaintDraze - Ottofar, supercharazad, SaintDraze,
Ottofar -
Japa -
Tyberix - Jim Groovester,
supercharazad - Toaster, lordnincompoop, Japa, Painiac, Tyberix,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting -

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central.

Supercharazad has been lynched!

Supercharazad was a Townie (town).

It is now Night. Send in your actions within 24 hours.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 1: Supercharainnocent, Am I Right?
Post by: webadict on February 27, 2011, 09:01:53 pm

After the traditional after-snack naptime, the men rose to find lordnincompoop's skull turned into a rather fine dust. Except somebody mixed in a bunch of brains, too. Nobody likes brains in their dust.

A quick search through his loincloth revealed he was a mere pointy-stick-man. Of course, looking at his pointy-stick might have revealed that without the whole awkward situation.

Everybody vowed not to talk about the loincloth incident.

I mean, what loincloth incident?

Dude, I was trying to pretend to have NEVER heard or seen what just happened.

YES, I KNOW IT JUST HAPPENED. STOP MENTIONING IT.

Looking up at the boulder and it's foreboding words, the group set about finding the perpetrator(s).

lordnincompoop has been killed!

lordnincompoop was a Townie (town).

Vote Count
------------------------
SaintDraze -
Ottofar -
Japa -
Tyberix -
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Ottofar, SaintDraze, Toaster, Japa, Painiac, Tyberix, Jim Groovester,

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central.

It is now Day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on February 27, 2011, 09:30:41 pm

Welp i can't believe i did not get lynched.
welp super and lordnincompoop Flipped town...
quite surprising that super is town
jim
Do you care to announce any scum picks that you have?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 27, 2011, 09:43:09 pm

I do have my scumpicks.

But why are you running to me first?

How about you tell me who you suspect first.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on February 27, 2011, 11:01:42 pm

Hrm.  Need to do some rereading, but that's a morning thing.  A couple questions for now:

Ottofar:  Do you still suspect SaintDraze?


SaintDraze:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 27, 2011, 09:30:41 pm

jim
Do you care to announce any scum picks that you have?

Appeal to Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority)

This leans dangerously close to that logical fallacy.  Is Jim experienced?  Yes.  Is he infallible and omniscient?  No.  Will relying on him to find the scum for you completely fail to improve your own scum hunting skills?  Absolutely.

Decide for yourself who you think is scum.  Don't rely on someone else (even if they're good at it) to do it for you.

As Jim said, who do you suspect?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 27, 2011, 11:36:35 pm

I'd also say it's a scum tell.

If a player can't come up with their own suspicions or reasoning it's probably indicative of a greater problem: that they're scum and they're struggling to suspect people because they know everybody is town or the people that are acting suspicious are their partners.

If I thought you had your own suspicions already, I would freely offer my own. But I think you'll instead just nod and agree with me and don't do any work and I don't go for that stuff so I'm putting you on the spot to see what you can come up with.

So, come on, SaintDraze. Let's see what you got.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on February 27, 2011, 11:38:19 pm

Who says I am relying on anyone toaster...

My scum picks were you and japa.
I don't really remember why so I am now going to re-read the thread to get a grasp of the thoughts I had...
The reason wasn't good anyway.

I honestly didn't expect to not get lynched...

Jim, Well If you aren't going to state your scum picks before everyone else has stated theirs then you describe the process in which you ask players about NK with out making Wine?
Is there even a way?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 27, 2011, 11:41:19 pm

No.

Don't think about it. It will lead you positively nowhere.

Let's see those reasons.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Rose on February 28, 2011, 12:10:30 am

I've mentioned before that I was split in my suspicions between Saint and Super,  due to both of them engaging in a pointless pissing contest, but I had no way, at the time, of knowing which of them was scum.

but, since super turned out to be town, that leaves SaintDraze

I've got my eye on you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on February 28, 2011, 08:09:58 am

Quote from: Toaster on February 27, 2011, 11:01:42 pm

Hrm.  Need to do some rereading, but that's a morning thing.  A couple questions for now:

Ottofar:  Do you still suspect SaintDraze?

Yup.
Actual post when home.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on February 28, 2011, 09:50:47 am

[Despite the previous day resulting in two dead townies, now is not the time to freak out.  We've got time to solve this, and accidents happen.  You can look at Super's and LNCP's posts and know that they were made in good faith (but not that they were correct!) to see what can be concluded.  Generally, though, a dead vanilla townie will not tell you much.  A dead scum is far more informative.

Much more informative is vote reasoning and behavior.  Did the people who voted the two of them (especially Super) have good reasons?  Were they just looking for an easy lynch?  Note that merely voting for a townie is not a scumtell- innocent people can be wrong- the intentions behind it have to be malign.

Now reassess your suspicions and go hunt some scum!]


Saint:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 27, 2011, 11:38:19 pm

Who says I am relying on anyone toaster...

Your actions do.  The way you asked Jim for his picks while offering nothing yourself was downright codependent.  You need to get your views aired out before you will be taken seriously.

Also, do you think your antagonizing of Super D1 accomplished anything?


Japa:

Quote from: Japa on February 28, 2011, 12:10:30 am

but, since super turned out to be town, that leaves SaintDraze

I've got my eye on you.

Why are you not questioning him if he's your only listed suspect?  You can't expect scumtells to just drop into your lap.  This is compounded by the fact that you FoS him but don't vote him- why is he suspicious enough to FoS but not enough to vote?  What are you doing to clarify that suspicion either to solid scum or probable town?

Who else do you suspect?  Give reasons behind any name you mention- including SaintDraze.


Tyberix:  Same deal: What has Super's flip done to your suspicions of SaintDraze?  Any other picks?  Why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Tyberix on February 28, 2011, 11:52:01 am

Well ,looks like super was just bad player :|

Toaster: It's simple SaintDraze is now more scummy than D1 so if he won't contribute anything useful soon, he is now my target no 1 right now. As for other picks look below.

SaintDraze Why you're asking how to make more WIFOMy speculations ? You want it ,don't you ? Also you admit that you stopped scumhunting because of votes on you ? That's scummy defense and only adds to my suspicions. What do you think about super play now ? What do you think of painiac ?

Painiac :Well you're most vague about your suspitcions yesterday,somehow after each attack on SaintDraze after his scummy posts you made excuses for him,blaming newbieness or diminishing his uselessnes, and suddenly when he become main lynching candidate you changed your vote for supercharazad. That's my overwiew on your vague play so tell me what do you think of SaintDraze now?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Painiac on February 28, 2011, 12:07:11 pm

What I am thinking? Vote SaintDraze. It seems he wasn't newby, but scummy. I was searching for some deeper meaning in his post, I don't know why. I had wifomed myself only. With Supercharazad death, I think it is really clear. I am terribly tired (4 hours of sleep, oh god), so I don't want to restate my thoughts on matter. I had posted them already. Well, after some sleep I can deliver it later if someone is really that interested.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Supercharazad on February 28, 2011, 12:12:18 pm

Bah!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 28, 2011, 12:23:45 pm

Tyberix.

Oh, you have two suspicions, huh? Have you heard of this vote thing you have? It's real key to lynching the people you suspect.

You're cowardly, cautious scum.

A word of caution as the game moves forward: You (to everybody) really don't want to get into an either/or mindset with anybody. Supercharazad and SaintDraze were fighting, but because Supercharazad flipped town doesn't make SaintDraze scum. Make sure to examine SaintDraze scumminess on his own merits instead of automatically implicating him because of Supercharazad's town flip.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on February 28, 2011, 02:22:47 pm

Sorry guys.
Don't really have an excuse for not posting, except laziness.
Tomorrow.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: lordnincompoop on February 28, 2011, 02:38:24 pm

Ooga ooga my skull was crushed.

Go town!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 05:26:23 pm

Thats not what I asked tyberix...

I asked how to avoid such questions...
It was how the Last bm was won by scum, since on day 2 no one really questioned the people who were scum because it would create a WIFoM situation...
I didn't really expect to last D1 so Thats why I quit...

Painiac is just a fellow noob, No matter if he Gmed some games...

I was going to try to do what I did with super on day one, since he really kind of freaked out when super me and him were playing the same game together.

He's not that high on my scum scale.

It's entirely my fault that super got lynched, I really shouldn't have tried to provoke him...
I am going to make sure that his lynch was not in vain...

Japa
A couple of pages ago You posted that you didn't really see any connection between me and super that would lead either one of us being scum or both of us being scum...

Quote from: Japa on February 28, 2011, 12:10:30 am

I've mentioned before that I was split in my suspicions between Saint and Super,  due to both of them engaging in a pointless pissing contest.

but, since super turned out to be town, that leaves SaintDraze

I've got my eye on you.

Got a specific example of when you changed your opinion Japa?

Painiac

If I do flip town who will you start pressuring?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 28, 2011, 06:00:20 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 05:26:23 pm

I didn't really expect to last D1 so Thats why I quit...

Play to win. Always.

DO NOT GIVE UP EVER. You owe your team not to.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 05:26:23 pm

If I do flip town who will you start pressuring?

If you flip town? What, you don't know your own alignment?

I could lynch you for that alone.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 05:26:23 pm

It's entirely my fault that super got lynched, I really shouldn't have tried to provoke him...
I am going to make sure that his lynch was not in vain...

Oh, just cut that crap out right now. It's scummy and useless.

If you're scum, you're trying to curry favor by appearing regretful over your mistakes, which is an appeal to emotion.
If you're town, you're doing something completely pointless instead of hunting scum.

You have better things to do than this.

I asked you for your reasons for the scum picks you gave (me and Painiac). What are they?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Painiac on February 28, 2011, 06:13:51 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 05:26:23 pm

Painiac is just a fellow noob, No matter if he Gmed some games...

I was going to try to do what I did with super on day one, since he really kind of freaked out when super me and him were playing the same game together.

What, poke me to see if I get myself lynched for your pleasure? Do your plans on scumchat, you shouldn't be so obvious.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 05:26:23 pm

Painiac

If I do flip town who will you start pressuring?

It wouldn't change at all if you DO flip town (which I doubt). I hadn't get read on Ottofar, so I would do some scumhuntin' on him. But yea, Tyberix seems most suspicious after you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 06:23:44 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 27, 2011, 11:38:19 pm

The reasons were not good anyway.

I am questioning right now since I have Nothing at all...
What I did have was Wine and that's it...
Toaster didn't have to take his vote off of me when he was pressuring someone else, FoS is just as good isn't it jim?
And japa was nudged repeatedly to vote before choosing me...
An Idle vote is an idle mind, it felt like Japa wasn't very enthusiastic about the game.


I thought if I were to post "When I flip town" would just look like I am posting "I AM TOWN!!!!"

And to painiac-
After super did spazz out and got lynch I sorta resolved to ditch that plan...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Painiac on February 28, 2011, 06:39:12 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 06:23:44 pm

I thought if I were to post "When I flip town" would just look like I am posting "I AM TOWN!!!!"

And to painiac-
After super did spazz out and got lynch I sorta resolved to ditch that plan...

Oh ye Armok, it is not even scumtell; it is outright claim you are scum. And yea, you thought scapegoating wouldn't work twice?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 28, 2011, 06:48:10 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 06:23:44 pm

I thought if I were to post "When I flip town" would just look like I am posting "I AM TOWN!!!!"

You're right.

You should pretty much avoid direct talk about your own alignment. You should show it through scumhunting, not say it.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 06:23:44 pm

FoS is just as good isn't it jim?

Only votes count. Literally, even.

If all anybody does is FoS people it makes me think they're just trying to look active by throwing little blue candies (my metaphor for FoSes) around instead of actually scumhunting.

In the same vein, if all they do is FoS people but never vote them, it makes me think they're cowardly scum, because they're worried that as soon as they take that step everybody will suspect them.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 07:05:44 pm

well If it is blatantly obvious if some one is scum shouldn't you keep your vote on them and use your blue vote for a Secondary selection?

I mean what is the point of a FoS then jim?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 28, 2011, 07:07:54 pm

To declare suspicion, of course.

But you've done neither.

So I've completely lost track of the point you were trying to make.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 07:21:54 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 28, 2011, 07:07:54 pm

To declare suspicion, of course.

But you've done neither.

So I've completely lost track of the point you were trying to make.

Toaster unvoted me, making him suspicious to me.

well Then...
Japa
You feel suspicious to me...
More suspicious then toaster because my reason for suspecting him is faulty and frail.
And your over cautious behavior is kinda scummyish along with your unenthusiasm
What is your plan for going along D2?

toaster
Do you have any scum picks toaster?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on February 28, 2011, 11:50:56 pm

Ottofar:

Quote from: Ottofar on February 28, 2011, 02:22:47 pm

Sorry guys.
Don't really have an excuse for not posting, except laziness.
Tomorrow.

I'll hold you to that.


Tyberix:  Fair enough in regards to my question.  I would like to see you commit, though- who is worthy of a vote?


SaintDraze:  My picks:  You, Tyberix, and Japa, in no particular order.

You've dropped several scum tells:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2030320#msg2030320  Apologizing for a lynch (Trying to curry favor)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2030537#msg2030537  Defensive regarding your comment (which is scummy by itself)

...for two examples today.

Japa hasn't said anything since day start.  He was very passive D1 and looks to be getting started off that way today.  I want more from him- my question is unanswered.

Finally, Tyberix seems unwilling to commit.

Ottofar will be on the list if he doesn't deliver.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Tyberix on March 01, 2011, 05:26:45 am

Uh,i'll try to be more useful from now on.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 07:21:54 pm

Toaster unvoted me, making him suspicious to me.

well Then...
Japa
You feel suspicious to me...
More suspicious then toaster because my reason for suspecting him is faulty and frail.
And your over cautious behavior is kinda scummyish along with your unenthusiasm
What is your plan for going along D2?

toaster
Do you have any scum picks toaster?

Underlined part : Why you say that ? Want to cover him ?
Bold one : Why ?
Again why you ask others before saying any of your own thoughts ? You avoid being aggressive in my eyes. That's scummy.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 07:05:44 pm

well If it is blatantly obvious if some one is scum shouldn't you keep your vote on them and use your blue vote for a Secondary selection?

You got that blatantly obvious pick or this is theoretical question ?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 05:26:23 pm

I was going to try to do what I did with super on day one, since he really kind of freaked out when super me and him were playing the same game together.

You mean you want town to look scummy trough "NO U!" quarrel ?

Also why you need to say "i'am town!"? Do you think scum would both attack one person ? Who you find least scummy ? Why you're not attacking your suspects or anyone else?
SaintDraze i taken Jim advice to heart and not assumed you're scum just because super wasn't, but you just keep going with scumtells.

Toaster Who would you inspect right now ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Rose on March 01, 2011, 07:19:31 am

I'd like to make a second request to be replaced. I only have mild interest in this, and less time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 01, 2011, 09:39:22 am

Tyberix:  Right now?  Probably Japa, since he's my top pick.  Assuming he got lynched and it went to night, I'd pick quasi-randomly between someone I suspected (Saint, you) and someone hard to read.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 01, 2011, 10:28:15 am

Three-ish hours 'till post.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 01, 2011, 12:29:44 pm

Runnin' outta time, but, Draze

Spoiler: previous reasons (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Ottofar on February 24, 2011, 01:38:16 pm

Why I decided to keep my vote on SD

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 05:56:34 pm

sigh... Time To Poke the Bear....
SuperCharazad
Now to see what happens...

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:02:10 pm

Do you know why I Voted supercharazad in the beginning?
It had something to do with the game that you got replaced out of...

Intentional annoying.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

Its not a personal thing at all... Super just always happens to spazz out whenever someone votes him, Seeing that it wasn't really that bad I take it that he is either cautious because he might be scum, or He might be learning...

And Jim, are you saying that Japa is a cop? that question wasn't really phrased right...

Defensive,

Kinda fishing-esque, and "Don't attack me for this question, even if it is scummy".

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

, If super does spazz LP's going to lynch vote him...

Practically admits he's looking just to lynch someone.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:11:00 pm

It certainly seems that way...
I really regret poking the bear now...

by spazzing I mean doing this,"WHY U OMGUSING ME I DIDN'T Do NOthing! !#$@!%!#@$@! U IS SCUM YAEUP YOU IS SCUMMMMM!!! ScUMM SCUMY SCum!!!!!!"

Regrets it for the attention.
Also More trying to make SC angry.

Plus this new stuff:

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 27, 2011, 09:30:41 pm

jim
Do you care to announce any scum picks that you have?

Tryin' to get on a good bandwagon.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 27, 2011, 11:38:19 pm

The reason wasn't good anyway.

Admits to just trying to lynch.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 05:26:23 pm

If I do flip town who will you start pressuring?

If indeed.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 1: Supercharainnocent, Am I Right?
Post by: webadict on March 01, 2011, 01:20:20 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
SaintDraze - Painiac, Tyberix, Ottofar,
Ottofar -
Japa - SaintDraze, Toaster,
Tyberix - Jim Groovester,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - Japa,

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2011, 01:22:39 pm

I'm voting Tyberix.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: webadict on March 01, 2011, 01:27:54 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2011, 01:22:39 pm

I'm voting Tyberix.

All fixedededed.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Rose on March 01, 2011, 01:50:48 pm

On the one hand, if I get voted out, I no longer have to worry about playing this...

on the other, ther'll be one less town, which is bad.

hrm...

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2011, 01:56:42 pm

ALWAYS PLAY TO WIN.

Getting yourself lynched so you can stop playing is unsportsmanlike.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2011, 10:53:06 pm

...so, anybody have anything to say? This is going to be an awful Day 2 at this rate.

Toaster: What's your read on Ottofar? What do you make of his recent post?

Tyberix: What do you make of Japa?

Japa: What do you make of Tyberix?

Ottofar: Secondary and tertiary suspicions?

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 09:12:06 am

Jim:  Ottofar's last post was a bit of a rehash, but since he is voting the same guy he did D1, that's to be expected, I guess.  I agree with you that I'd like a couple more picks out of him.

Am I correct in guessing your top two picks are Tyberix and SaintDraze?  If not, who then?


Painiac:  You mentioned earlier you would do some questioning to get a better read on Ottofar.  Why haven't you done so?


SaintDraze:  Anything new from you?  You're currently voting Japa- how would you grill a replacement?

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2011, 09:17:26 am

Japa has been replaced by lordnincompoop.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 09:25:25 am

LNCP:  Can you give a rundown of your suspicions now?

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Rose on March 02, 2011, 09:57:33 am

yeah, it was nice playing with you guys, but really not my kind of thing.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Painiac on March 02, 2011, 12:48:57 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 09:12:06 am

Painiac:  You mentioned earlier you would do some questioning to get a better read on Ottofar.  Why haven't you done so?

Uhh, I am being lazy prick. I am pretty sure of my scumpicks, so I don't bother to do anything besides observing if anybody does some weird things. I am losing quickly my interest when I'm getting easy win. With scums openly telling what they are... Meh.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 02, 2011, 03:02:55 pm

I'd say Japanincompoop or Tyberix.

For the stuff that will be linked, when I'm not on a Mac.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Zrk2 on March 02, 2011, 03:33:08 pm

I can probably replace in, but I'll take a while to get up to speed.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Tyberix on March 02, 2011, 03:38:27 pm

LNCP: Who and why ?

Quote from: Painiac on March 02, 2011, 12:48:57 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 09:12:06 am

Painiac:  You mentioned earlier you would do some questioning to get a better read on Ottofar.  Why haven't you done so?

Uhh, I am being lazy prick. I am pretty sure of my scumpicks, so I don't bother to do anything besides observing if anybody does some weird things. I am losing quickly my interest when I'm getting easy win. With scums openly telling what they are... Meh.

Whoa. You really believe what you write ? First passiveness isn't funny in this situation. And i think you meant easy scum win, this isn't easy situation for town. You stated only one scumpick and you're sure about two ? Who's the second one ? And how the hell you're so sure ? That sounds as disguised scummy town-claim to me. Maybe i'am wrong but there's something fishy about that. This discussion is slowing enough to let such things pass.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 02, 2011, 03:39:45 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2011, 10:53:06 pm

Tyberix: What do you make of Japa?

Ahem.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Tyberix on March 02, 2011, 03:51:51 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 02, 2011, 03:39:45 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2011, 10:53:06 pm

Tyberix: What do you make of Japa?

Ahem.

Oh. Sorry missed that.
Japa D1 play was kinda wonky at the beginning,first stating that he doesn't have serious suspect and do not want to vote when a bit after that jumping with no-reason vote just to back it off.Then again throwing it back without much changes in the reasoning. Well after that he got bit silent however post get more thoughtful - that's could be because of scumchat advice or just learining.Guess i shouldn't take lurking into account cause of replace. Never shown real line of attack though so i would say he's tied for my second scumpick with painiac right now(After Super of course).

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 02, 2011, 04:07:37 pm

I'd like to push for an Extend; I've exams tomorrow, and I'd like to study for those first. Besides, I think we need the time.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 02, 2011, 04:08:34 pm

Extend For mister coop.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 02, 2011, 04:19:40 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on March 02, 2011, 03:51:51 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 02, 2011, 03:39:45 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2011, 10:53:06 pm

Tyberix: What do you make of Japa?

Ahem.

Oh. Sorry missed that.
Japa D1 play was kinda wonky at the beginning,first stating that he doesn't have serious suspect and do not want to vote when a bit after that jumping with no-reason vote just to back it off.Then again throwing it back without much changes in the reasoning. Well after that he got bit silent however post get more thoughtful - that's could be because of scumchat advice or just learining.Guess i shouldn't take lurking into account cause of replace. Never shown real line of attack though so i would say he's tied for my second scumpick with painiac right now(After Super of course).

Super, you say. You mean Supercharazad?

Right.

It's like you're reciting the same excuses you used yesterday from memory.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Tyberix on March 02, 2011, 04:26:56 pm

Ugh i must avoid  playing two mafia's at once - i'm getting confused.
I meant saint, (and yes it's easy to mistake them sometimes :|)

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 04:30:25 pm

Painiac:

Quote from: Painiac on March 02, 2011, 12:48:57 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 09:12:06 am

Painiac:  You mentioned earlier you would do some questioning to get a better read on Ottofar.  Why haven't you done so?

Uhh, I am being lazy prick. I am pretty sure of my scumpicks, so I don't bother to do anything besides observing if anybody does some weird things. I am losing quickly my interest when I'm getting easy win. With scums openly telling what they are... Meh.

I had to reread this a couple times to realize you weren't calling me a prick here.  In any case, let me tell you now that you should never sit on your laurels, especially when there two known scum out there.  If you're convinced beyond the shadow of a doubt that Saint and... Tyberix, maybe?- are scum, then why aren't you shouting it from the rooftops trying to convince everyone else?

The game's not over, so don't take off your helmet.


Ottofar:  Don't forget the "why" part that is implicitly included on every question.


I'll support an extension to get LNCP some time to post.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT REQUESTED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on March 02, 2011, 04:54:58 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 09:12:06 am

SaintDraze:  Anything new from you?  You're currently voting Japa- how would you grill a replacement?

I find that I have a hard time questioning replacements...
Any reason that I had for suspecting the person they replaced usually doesn't apply to the replacer...
This is the second game that this happened to me so I am just going to ask Nincompoop this...

How would you have done D1 LNP?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 1: Supercharainnocent, Am I Right?
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2011, 10:38:01 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
SaintDraze - Painiac, Tyberix, Ottofar,
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop - SaintDraze, Toaster,
Tyberix - Jim Groovester,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - lordnincompoop,

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central. 3 Extensions Requested.

Day Extended To Friday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on March 03, 2011, 05:09:02 pm

well It's been slow today hasn't it?
unvote
I would rather Lord nincompoop show a sign of scummieness before I vote him...

Now
Painiac,
How would you summarize D1 and D2?
I ask this to see your spin on it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 03, 2011, 05:27:13 pm

Bluh sorry, I had a surprise visitor (gained a CD though, yay) so I was kept busy and unable to post anything of value today. Sorry.

I will post stuff tomorrow though, I promise.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SniHjen on March 03, 2011, 05:36:46 pm

Quote from: webadict on March 02, 2011, 10:38:01 pm

Vote Count
------------------------

Not Voting - lordnincompoop,

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central. 3 Extensions Requested.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 03, 2011, 05:09:02 pm

well It's been slow today hasn't it?
unvote
I would rather Lord nincompoop show a sign of scummieness before I vote him...

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 03, 2011, 05:27:13 pm

Bluh sorry, I had a surprise visitor (gained a CD though, yay) so I was kept busy and unable to post anything of value today. Sorry.

I will post stuff tomorrow though, I promise.

Sorry for posting but...

Arn't lordnincompoop dead?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2011, 05:37:45 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 03, 2011, 05:27:13 pm

I will post stuff tomorrow though, I promise.

Making the best of the extension, I see.

How about you just say who you suspect, with reasons pending?

Quote from: SniHjen on March 03, 2011, 05:36:46 pm

Arn't lordnincompoop dead?

He replaced another player.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 03, 2011, 05:45:46 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2011, 05:37:45 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 03, 2011, 05:27:13 pm

I will post stuff tomorrow though, I promise.

Making the best of the extension, I see.

It's midnight. I'm going to shower and sleep in, quite literally, a minute or two. :I

My picks are Tyberix and SaintDraze.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 1: Supercharainnocent, Am I Right?
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2011, 07:13:45 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
SaintDraze - Painiac, Tyberix, Ottofar,
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop - Toaster,
Tyberix - Jim Groovester, lordnincompoop,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - SaintDraze,

Day Ends Wednesday 9 PM Central. 3 Extensions Requested.

Day Extended To Friday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2011, 09:47:29 pm

Ok, too quiet!

[Generally, I don't do this, unless the game has gotten very quiet.]

SaintDraze:  You're leading in votes, and yet aren't voting yourself.  What do you think your vote is accomplishing on nobody?

Ottofar:  You promised more reasons, but have yet to deliver.  Do you remember Toaster's #1 Scum Tell?

LNCP:  See previous question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2035365#msg2035365) to you.  (AKA Details, please.)

Tyberix:  How confident are you in your vote?  You were hesitant to vote earlier- are you more sure now?

Painiac:  See previous question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2036495#msg2036495) as well.  That's a bad attitude to have, and you seem to be following through with it by lurking.

Jim:  You never answered my question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2035336#msg2035336).  You know better than that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2011, 10:13:01 pm

Whoops, I honestly missed that.

Yeah, it's Tyberix, SaintDraze, but also Japapoop for not being exceptionally bold or aggressive with voting.

LNCP needs to state his reasons for his suspicions.

Also I officially declare SaintDraze's acronym to be St.D.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on March 03, 2011, 10:33:24 pm

Wut? D=

bu-bu-but I don't haz aids :C

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2011, 10:37:26 pm

You should be happy. Most people don't get an acronym unless their name naturally lends itself to shortening.

Now who do you suspect, Mr.I'm going to protest something silly instead of participating in the game?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on March 03, 2011, 10:44:40 pm

I am just waiting for LNP to make a slightly scummy move before jumping him.
FoS LordNincompoop

I have to go to bed now...
The pillows are calling me~~~ZZZZzzzzzzzZz

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2011, 10:51:52 pm

If you suspect him why don't you vote him?

Waiting for excuses to change your vote is scummy. It means you don't care whether or not your target is scum or not, you're just looking for lynches.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 1: Supercharainnocent, Am I Right?
Post by: webadict on March 04, 2011, 08:20:01 am

Vote Count
------------------------
SaintDraze - Painiac, Tyberix, Ottofar,
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop - Toaster,
Tyberix - Jim Groovester, lordnincompoop,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - SaintDraze,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 04, 2011, 09:19:00 am

Jim:  Noted.


SaintDraze. Answer me.

Quote from: Toaster on March 03, 2011, 09:47:29 pm

SaintDraze:  You're leading in votes, and yet aren't voting yourself.  What do you think your vote is accomplishing on nobody?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 04, 2011, 11:28:46 am

I'll Tybe it up after gym.
(see what I did there? Harharhar.)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Tyberix on March 04, 2011, 12:27:53 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 03, 2011, 09:47:29 pm

Tyberix:  How confident are you in your vote?  You were hesitant to vote earlier- are you more sure now?

Well i'm convinced that my vote is put to good use. I have only one doubt that SaintDraze's scumminess could be exaggerated in my mind not because he's scum but because he just act like this normally. This is mostly overridden by his lack of scumhunt or saying anything useful for a long time, avoiding questions and overall lack of usefulness from him. He just keeps his attitude despite everyone reminding him not to do so. What's the point of this ? I could just drop his random quote and probably i would find some strangely obvious scumtells in it.He shows that he cares

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 03, 2011, 10:44:40 pm

I am just waiting for LNP to make a slightly scummy move before jumping him.
FoS LordNincompoop

I have to go to bed now...
The pillows are calling me~~~ZZZZzzzzzzzZz

He just locked his mind before even reading someone's post -  if there were anything suspicious in LNCP next post he probably omit it and attack just because of the "plan" he stated beforehand... If that's a real scumhunt then you could as well end the day now and vote random.

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 03, 2011, 05:45:46 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2011, 05:37:45 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 03, 2011, 05:27:13 pm

I will post stuff tomorrow though, I promise.

Making the best of the extension, I see.

It's midnight. I'm going to shower and sleep in, quite literally, a minute or two. :I

My picks are Tyberix and SaintDraze.

I hope we'll get some explanation before day end ....

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 04, 2011, 03:43:16 pm

Actually yeah. I'd like to see Nincompoop's thoughts before posting mine.
But seeing as he's offline:

Quote from: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 06:09:09 pm

Uh,i got both. This is only acceptable because you said you go to sleep ( i need to go too :P),otherwise i would vote you for slowing down and breaking the RVS with this. Even one with obvious answer, but at least a bit mafia-oriented question would be more suitable here...

Breaking down, right. Not really, as useless it might be.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 17, 2011, 10:34:02 am

Painiac How would you approach cop claim ?

Kinda role-fish-esque.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 07:25:08 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 07:17:43 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Supercharazad that's the most scummy thing i heard since the day start. What should he do other than pressing on his target ? Maybe attack someone else who you feel should be attacked ? Any excuse or clarification ?

SaintDraze How the hell not voting you is scummy ? You admit you're scum ? Or you say you're intentionally make us vote for you ?

Tyberix, it's not scummy, it's me repeating advice from a previous game I was in. NEVER give up, EVER, you should always keep trying to get the scum killed, even when you are minutes away from lynching.

Tyberix: Why the vote on something that isn't scummy in the slightest?

You state exactly otherwise!  Unless the first sentence is an reminder and a second is an advice , you should separate it somehow this way it looks like you say attacking is wrong ! But right i read too much in your response, Unvote

Worth mentioning, even if it looks like a misunderstanding, it could well be a scumtell.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

-Snip-

Here Tyb's getting on the defensive rather quickly, as Jim asks him couple of questions.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 24, 2011, 05:03:46 pm

Jim Yeah, for sure as scum i would not vote someone on D1 especially in situation where votes are nearly tied...

Supercharazad

WIFoM+Bandwagon

---

It's almost midnight.
Some parts might be slightly irrational, and I didn't list stuff Jim had said. But yeah.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on March 04, 2011, 05:11:57 pm

well is it right to vote lord nincompoop because of japas general flakyness...
My votelessness is just me being idle while I process who I will vote for.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 04, 2011, 05:17:15 pm

Okay, scum. It's not like you've had plenty of time and people asking you about it to make a decision or anything like that.

Unvote, St.D.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 1: Supercharainnocent, Am I Right?
Post by: webadict on March 04, 2011, 05:30:53 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
SaintDraze - Painiac, Tyberix, Ottofar, Jim Groovester,
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop - Toaster,
Tyberix - lordnincompoop,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - SaintDraze,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

By the way, I'm extending the Day until Sunday 9 PM Central. I won't be able to End the Day earlier.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 04, 2011, 06:58:57 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 02, 2011, 04:54:58 pm

How would you have done D1 LNP?

I would have done D1 better than how I did it the first time around.
I can't really point out any specifics. Sure, we lynched town, but that happens; especially on D1.

Quote from: Tyberix on March 02, 2011, 03:38:27 pm

LNCP: Who and why ?

Quote from: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 09:25:25 am

LNCP:  Can you give a rundown of your suspicions now?

Tyberix and SaintDraze.
I have spoilered my cases against each because they're pretty big.

Spoiler: Case against SaintDraze (click to show/hide)

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

Its not a personal thing at all... Super just always happens to spazz out whenever someone votes him, Seeing that it wasn't really that bad I take it that he is either cautious because he might be scum, or He might be learning...

That was your answer, Super, btw...

Doing the same for Painiac because He panic'd before he got replaced...

And Thats what I meant by "Poking the Bear"
Because noobs spazzing out are never good for town...
Only good for mafia.

The only reason you have for provoking Supercharazard was because of meta?
This is unacceptable and inadequate. You're scum trying to goad town into action, and forcing Super to be the target of a bandwagon. The town's primary goal is to hunt for scum, not for newbies (especially in a Beginners' Mafia). Doing otherwise will only help build the case against you.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

sillyness Is a good thing to have at the start of the game ,as It is good for cutting tension and makes sure everyone knows this is being played between friends...

It isn't. Mafia is srs bsns, and any time wasted to silly antics and general uselessness is only beneficial to scum. We don't need to cut tension - in fact, it can help one to hunt - and the fact that this is on a friendly basis is obvious.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 06:32:04 pm

LordNinCompoop
Well My favorite kind of scum partner is one who generally stays quite Until something needs to be said... which would complement me because I Rather post alot...

You post a lot, but most of your posts are either not very productive or silly. Additionally, you are only "active" when the attention is directed toward someone else; a bit of trouble in your direction and that activity suddenly disappears, along with your motivation.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 07:13:28 pm

Because A spazzing noob usually ruins the day...and the days that follow if he isn't lynched...
I voted super because I wanted to see if he'd spazz out so I would kinda know what to expect...

And jim, I don't want super to spazz, But testing super to see if he does spazz this early in the game will let me be more sure of what I am doing later in the game...

I'm sensing contradictions. Why did you provoke him, if you didn't want him to "spazz"?
Provoking people in order to elicit negative reactions may work in scumhunting, but you do not do so simply to elicit a negative reaction.
You're not looking for scum; you're just looking for lynches to further your scum agenda, and you've admitted to doing so.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:11:00 pm

It certainly seems that way...
I really regret poking the bear now...

by spazzing I mean doing this,"WHY U OMGUSING ME I DIDN'T Do NOthing! !#$@!%!#@$@! U IS SCUM YAEUP YOU IS SCUMMMMM!!! ScUMM SCUMY SCum!!!!!!"

I'd lych someone like that, Even if it mean I was Lynched too... Anything to make sure I don't have to deal with that kind of shit...

Anyhow I thought I had to test Super to test how easy it would be to rile him up.
He's learning alittle.But not much apparantly... Did you see how easy he was, calling me scum because I voted him first? He should have asked why I didn't ask a question with my vote...

You're retracting your position just as someone gives you heat for it, which just goes to show you never had much real commitment to your opinions to begin with.
But then, in the same post, you go on to provoke him further. Why were you waffling about like this? You never seem to have a firm stance, and change your positions whenever anyone call you out.
This tells me you're scum, far too concerned about your image and unable to form any opinions and defend them.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 16, 2011, 09:35:34 pm

Okay then...
F%#!@$ this, going to focus on Kingmaker 4, at least I haven't dug myself into a hole in that game, Let someone else take my place
Replace me please

And after that, you decide to give up and ask for a replacement. Very bad behaviour your part; you don't just ask for a replacement when you're in trouble. Note also that you gave up (this time without the request) when the eventual bandwagon formed on you.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 10:39:55 am

That won't help you at all if I wind up getting lynched...

Blackmailing the town. How do you think this will benefit anyone?

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 11:58:37 am

He isn't voting me? really?
I thought he would vote me... wonder why not...
Super
Why so reasonable and reserved? This is such a drastic change from your last two games...

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 17, 2011, 12:07:46 pm

The past two games you were in were more then "excitement" super, It was being a bad player.
This is such a drastic change that I think you are satisfied with whatever role you got...

Again with the meta. Meta is not evidence enough to convict scum.
Also, here you're putting pressure on him for being reasonable, which is what a good town should be. You're implicitly encouraging bad play and heat, which will only benefit the scum.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 18, 2011, 03:21:21 pm

Well I don't really mind if we shorten.
It seems the only thing that will prove my innocence...

Super probably isn't scum since he seems over eager to lynch me...
scum wouldn't want to be very visible when they are trying get someone lynched
Makes them look bad when the lynched flips townie...

I don't maliciously insult...

Unvote supercharazad, Vote SaintDraze

You've waffled between wanting to lynch Super and not wanting to lynch Super several times during D1. The indecision is incredibly suspicious, especially since you began the attack.

Never vote yourself. There is no reason to do this, and doing this is counter to Town interests.

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 28, 2011, 06:23:44 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on February 27, 2011, 11:38:19 pm

The reasons were not good anyway.

I am questioning right now since I have Nothing at all...
What I did have was Wine and that's it...
Toaster didn't have to take his vote off of me when he was pressuring someone else, FoS is just as good isn't it jim?
And japa was nudged repeatedly to vote before choosing me...
An Idle vote is an idle mind, it felt like Japa wasn't very enthusiastic about the game.


I thought if I were to post "When I flip town" would just look like I am posting "I AM TOWN!!!!"

And to painiac-
After super did spazz out and got lynch I sorta resolved to ditch that plan...

Passivity. If you need more evidence, look through and question, but don't have that as the reason not to build cases and aggressively scumhunt. Why do you keep being this passive? It will not lead to any good, and in doing this your game will simply be suboptimal if you are town.

You have spent the majority of D1 trying to provoke Supercharazard, participating in silly banter and giving up. You're spending D2 as a very passive person, who pokes but never attacks.
I'd say this is very scum-like of you, St.D. You haven't been very productive in either of the two days (activelurkan) and you've been working against the town.

Spoiler: Case against Tyberix (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 07:16:09 pm

Well i finished only one game,and there's BM XX going on so i don't have much experience, but i got few harsh lessons from them ;p
First of all, lurkers are a serious problem,and i mean SERIOUS, that's annoying as hell when you have nothing to say about certain person only because he doesn't post not because he plays good... Also claiming town and abusing exclamation marks is certain way to get lynched

This strikes me as an attempt to gain favour by posing yourself to be insightful.

Not to mention that you're quite hypocritical; you've done your fair share of lurking, and your participation in scumhunting seems to be minor.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 19, 2011, 05:07:31 am

SaintDraze, that's a horrible attitude.

You keep pressing your case even if you know you are going to die, so as someone else can pick up on it.

Supercharazad that's the most scummy thing i heard since the day start. What should he do other than pressing on his target ? Maybe attack someone else who you feel should be attacked ? Any excuse or clarification ?

SaintDraze How the hell not voting you is scummy ? You admit you're scum ? Or you say you're intentionally make us vote for you ?

A heated attack because of an innocent comment. Why did you lash out so quickly?

You're scum, indecisive and looking for a target to attack. In this post, you've tried to attack Supercharazard - but you were too eager and too quick, and the only thing you've done is expose your filthy underbelly.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 02:43:41 pm

Jim,Lordnincompoop : Well,i wouldn't call it fascination,but i feel that asking for NK beforehand is better than WIFoming afterwards,also to be clear i asked about it only twice, that's not that much. Also i still have no idea what question is good one for D1 - we got no solid information at this point so i try catch as many inconsistencies as i can and ask about them, and by accident ( or not  ) super "plan" was highly dependent on NK so asking about it seemed natural.

Well, not too much activity =  town fail so i hope other post soon 

Suddenly, you're acting very defensive. Did Jim's piercing question unnerve you?

I can see you're repeating yourself throughout the post, and a general nervous/defensive tone; a very unusual reaction to a comment. This is further aided by the responses you have made below:

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 04:05:41 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 03:39:55 pm

'Sup scum.

Why'd you feel the need to respond to my idle remark about you and your fascination with the nightkill? I would've been perfectly content if you had let it pass. But, you didn't and now I'm interested and very curious.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 03:01:40 pm

Lordnincompoop: Well it's hard to say if it's another of their towny foolishness or maybe something else. Both of them got pretty emotional to something that started as RVS but , well you know how similar  it was previous game :\ If i had to choose one of them to lynch i would say that supercharazad is more suspicious, he acts if he really wanted to get his attack on apparently not so easy target - without concentrating on why he attacks him, he just do it (not even attacks him for what he says - just like he thought of this beforehand) ? SaintDraze in my opinion just go on with the flow without real goal in mind (not that it's a good thing ;p), even if he stated he wants to provoke super it just looked like very bad idea for scumhunt. Both acted scummy though so it's arguable who is more likely to be one.

As I recall, you're voting for Akivara. So if you think Supercharazad is more suspicious why is your vote where it is?

a) There was nothing happening and post that answer question (that was asked twice)  is better than null post don't you think ? Unless you want to hear who likes pie more or some wifom ? That would be good for you as a scum, right ?
b)I meant who of these two is more suspicious  - not who i find most scummy. Also if akivara don't post explaination changing vote would be without real purpose - the border between normal and scummy behavior in super and saint case is blurry enough to not vote on only "scum feel" on one of them. Unless you want me to vote them since you know neither of them is scum ?

Here, I see that same nervous, defensive styling.

If you think you're going to end up writing a null post, do some investigation or ask some questions. This is not an excuse, scum.
You're breaching into WIFOM territory here, a sign that you're getting nervous and disorganised. Yet another bad reaction, and a hint as to your true nature.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

Well i am interested in nightkill,i fail to see what's scummy in that. We should leave all possible questions about them ? I don't see any reason in that, also you mix my answer and NK questions in one assault. I never said that i asked about NK because nothing else was going on,that was about your "respond to idle remark". Rushing to defense : well if someone calls me scum for no apparent reason i try to prove them wrong, isn't that what's that game is about ? Or should i ignore all your attacks ? Also  "testing you reaction" is not necessary, it could be used in any situation to excuse inconvenient question or answer.

Well,i have to reread the thread since Akivara was replaced. I'm sure voting Ottofar before he speaks out isn't right thing to do so :Unvote

Dodging questions and poor replies. You're making up all sorts of unnecessary excuses and defenses for yourself, and they seem largely disorganised. It really does seem he touched a nerve, and you're just slipping up more and more.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

Second place is supercharazad so few questions for him :

Quote from: Supercharazad on February 21, 2011, 02:53:25 pm

Quote from: Japa on February 21, 2011, 02:43:12 pm

while Saint and Super duke it out in a pissing match.

How? Explain please.
I voted SaintDraze for:
He was excited when you did not see me vote you, before I did (Realised he made a mistake, thought he was off the hook)
He totally gave up (scumtell in the scumtell list, in the OP)
He randomly insults me, to get me angry, so I'll make mistakes (he stopped... right after I told him it wasn't working -.-)
Also:
Japa: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?
LordNincompoop: What were YOUR reasons for voting SaintDraze?

Why you search for more evidence to attack SaintDraze (that's how i understand last two questions) ? Or you want to undermine other's faith in their votes - that should be done by evidence not like that. How fact that he stopped insulting you is scumtell ?

Why are you trying to stifle investigation and discussion? Any attempt to do so can only be considered scummy, as town benefits from any and all discussion.
The second bit is just pure WIFOM. I keep noticing that in your posts; bits of it spread everywhere. Bad arguments, bad invesitagation. As scum, you're finding yourself unable to make an good attacks, so you fall back on wine.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

...

If you are interested in the nightkill then why are you interested? You've heard my theory.

Theory that is what ? Asking "innocent" questions ? You want me to ask "Are you a cop so i could kill you tonight ?" or something like that ? I still don't know what's wrong with asking about NK it's important part of the game isn't it ? So why i should not ask about it ? I could answer with your own words :

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

And the hell testing reactions (asking questions) isn't necessary. It's another tool in the scumhunting tool belt. I used it on you, and I got results.

Asking for NK is one of possible questions so i just asked it without any plan to get expected answer - just to look into it for scumminess.

More defensiveness, and you're beating around the bush with that question. Why didn't you simply answer the question straight on, instead of converting it into some poorly-formulated counter-attack?

You're scum finding himself unable to give reasons for the actions he's doing. There is no reason for you to dodge that question, and doing so only goes to show that you do not have an answer.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

Also, I said I suspected you for your talk about the night kill. I never said I thought you were scum, until you decided to defend yourself from me stating I was suspicious of you. Everybody does suspicious things, but that doesn't mean they're scum.

So who do you call scum ? People who you found no evidence on ? Or people who attack you or your partner ? How else then you find who is scum other than searching for suspicious actions ?

You're firing back with a question of little importance or relevance, and you've failed to defend yourself regarding your emotions. You're defending yourself against attack that are not there, and fighting back against pressure that does not exist. Where did this sudden heat come from? Why weren't you this aggressive earlier, in D1?

A sudden change of behaviour, from lurker to attacker. Very suspicious.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 21, 2011, 06:25:52 pm

That's what he should be doing, no? He should be finding compelling arguments against his scum target and trying to convince the rest of the town that his target is scum. The problem is that he doesn't have compelling arguments. Why do you have a problem with him trying?

That's not that he tries bothers me , but the fact that asking these questions to people who vote on him could mean only one of two things :
 a)He needs more arguments on SaintDraze , but  he shouldn't ask other to find it for him - his attack is baseless if he don't have anything to support it with.
b)He wants to change others votes - that's nothing wrong - but again he should do it himself! In this situation it's bad looking version of : "Your vote doesn't suite me : change it please, i don't like being voted" - no convincing arguments,no pointing out errors , he essentially tells them to find defense for him!

I'm not voting because i feel Ottofar should say something before i vote him - my reason's why i voted him are still same as before since he not answered to them he is still my prime suspect, but voting now that he's replaced feels weird to me before he speaks out.

I say, you're not making that many points for your pick either, or making much of an attack. Your aggressiveness should be directed at scum and investigation, yet you sit here and defend yourself constantly.

Ugh, more passivity. If he is your prime suspect, then you should not be hesitating. You're making up excuses for not being functional town and doing it badly too.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 04:32:01 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

Are the wild accusations supposed to scare me? Drop it. Right now. It's not helping your case at all. And if you want to say that I'm scum, maybe you should work my name into your list of suspicions. Actually, don't, that's me laying a trap for you. If you did I would accuse you of being defensive and suspecting the people who are attacking you for that reason alone.

My point was this: people will say they suspect you all the time. Unless they ask you a question about it, or they decide to vote you for it, you should let it pass. You have more important things to do than defend yourself from every little bit of suspicion.

The problem with what you did is that you rushed to defend yourself from the little bit of suspicion I laid out. You should have, instead, used the time to go find scum. It makes you look like you're interested in keeping yourself alive over finding scum, which is a very scummy attitude.

That wasn't meant to be aggressive - that part just made as much sense as saying that scummy behavior is not scummy. I agree that i should go after someone i targeted instead of arguing over that but if they not responding i don't see anything wrong with clearing doubts about my play. Also "if you vote me - you're scum" is funny way of telling that you're not really interested in my vote.

Unaggressive my ass. You were clearly emotional, and no amount of excuses and spin doctoring is going to cover that up.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 04:32:01 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2011, 12:47:36 pm

Okay.

You have no reasons for your top pick.
You have many reasons for your second pick.
You are not voting your top pick.

There's your mess of contradictions.

Well first of all voting super at this point would end up with no-lynch situation and i'm not sure starting it is a good idea.I probably won't post before day end again so i couldn't change me vote even if i want to. Also as i said before i'm still waiting for Ottofar to say something more. Besides than i'm not really convinced that i should vote Supercharazad over SaintDraze - both of them acted scummy and i'm still not sure which one is more convincing/scummy/inconsistent. Also in the case of Supercharazad scummy behavior:  i feel like lots of these by super/saint are less important than few scumtells done by others - they just play like that :\

More waffling and indecision. Where did all that energy go? Why are you being such a useless town?

At least mention the reasons you have for Ottofar. Oh wait, you don't have any, do you? Why else would you keep ignoring question after question regarding your reasons?

Quote from: Tyberix on February 28, 2011, 11:52:01 am

Well ,looks like super was just bad player :|

Toaster: It's simple SaintDraze is now more scummy than D1 so if he won't contribute anything useful soon, he is now my target no 1 right now. As for other picks look below.

SaintDraze Why you're asking how to make more WIFOMy speculations ? You want it ,don't you ? Also you admit that you stopped scumhunting because of votes on you ? That's scummy defense and only adds to my suspicions. What do you think about super play now ? What do you think of painiac ?

Painiac :Well you're most vague about your suspitcions yesterday,somehow after each attack on SaintDraze after his scummy posts you made excuses for him,blaming newbieness or diminishing his uselessnes, and suddenly when he become main lynching candidate you changed your vote for supercharazad. That's my overwiew on your vague play so tell me what do you think of SaintDraze now?

What are your reasons for the St.D pick, then? you haven't mentioned any of those, just like you neglected to mention your reasons for Ottofar. You're taking refuge in mindless bangwagonning, in the hopes that it will provide you with some reasons instead of making them yourself.

I've picked Tyberix over St.D because to me it just seems St.D's just being a bad player; he's far too blatant and obvious, and though it may be a risky assumption, my gut tells me scum would show themselves in other ways.
And they have, in the form of Tyberix. His inconsistent behaviour is odd, and as are his reactions. He's backtracking and refusing to provide reasons, and being deliberately vague.

Quote from: Ottofar on March 02, 2011, 03:02:55 pm

I'd say Japanincompoop or Tyberix.

For the stuff that will be linked, when I'm not on a Mac.

Any reasons?

PPE:

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 04, 2011, 05:11:57 pm

well is it right to vote lord nincompoop because of japas general flakyness...
My votelessness is just me being idle while I process who I will vote for.

You're voting me because the person I replaced was flaky?
Come up with some good reasons to convict me, based on the posts I have made (well, as NewJapa that is). I expect you'll have an easier time now that I've posted with some content.

No wait, you're not even voting; you're just pushing for lynches on anyone you feel might make a good candidate, while remaining passive yourself. If you're so suspicious, why don't you put your vote in?

PPE2:

Quote from: webadict on March 04, 2011, 05:30:53 pm

Sunday 9 PM Central

Oh goody.

_{My god, this took way too long to type up. Why did I have to go and use so many posts...}

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on March 04, 2011, 09:06:04 pm

No I don't have suspicion of you,
because you just got here,
It's just a benefit of the doubt thing,
until you do a scummy thing,
at which point will be piled with japa's scummy things.


isn't*  :P
Sorry typo...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 04, 2011, 09:22:14 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 04, 2011, 09:06:04 pm

No I don't have suspicion of you,

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 03, 2011, 10:44:40 pm

FoS LordNincompoop

Oh, okay.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: SaintDraze on March 04, 2011, 09:24:46 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 04, 2011, 09:22:14 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 04, 2011, 09:06:04 pm

No I don't have suspicion of you,

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 03, 2011, 10:44:40 pm

FoS LordNincompoop

Oh, okay.

XP

$!#% me

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 04, 2011, 09:45:26 pm

Yep, that's a town attitude.

And to think I have to wait through Sunday to see you hang.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 05, 2011, 01:12:22 am

Unvote LNCP.  That's what I wanted from Japa- commitment.

Going to reread tomorrow to see who is the scummier of SaintDraze and Tyberix- too late tonight.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 05, 2011, 06:24:06 am

I'd like some responses from Tyberix and SaintDraze, now that I took the time to formulate a proper attack.

Until then:
SaintDraze: Who are your scumpicks and why? What is your read on everyone so far?
Ottofar: Same questions as SaintDraze. Why have you been lurking so much?
Tyberix: Why so quiet? Elaborate on your vote. How is SaintDraze scummy?
Painiac: You seem to suddenly have disappeared once the bandwagon formed. Why is this? Why are you not participating?
Toaster: How is D2 going, in your opinion? What do you think of the other players so far?
Jim Groovester: Why are you not questioning other town as well? Don't you think it's rather too quiet?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 04, 2011, 06:58:57 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 07:16:09 pm

-

This strikes me as an attempt to gain favour by posing yourself to be insightful.
That's why i write that i played only one game before , i'm still new to this and my tactics are pretty basic ones.
Not to mention that you're quite hypocritical; you've done your fair share of lurking, and your participation in scumhunting seems to be minor.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 19, 2011, 06:58:40 am

-

A heated attack because of an innocent comment. Why did you lash out so quickly?
First i misunderstood his words as exact opposite of what he said. Besides that at this point of the game i was still undecided who to vote and that was more of a nervousness-check vote.
You're scum, indecisive and looking for a target to attack. In this post, you've tried to attack Supercharazard - but you were too eager and too quick, and the only thing you've done is expose your filthy underbelly.
I agree that i'm indecisive and looking for target to attack - but that's not making me scum, how would i scumhunt without it, especially that i haven't got clear suspect at this point ? Waiting and watching is worse than attacking in my opinion.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 02:43:41 pm

-

Suddenly, you're acting very defensive. Did Jim's piercing question unnerve you?

I can see you're repeating yourself throughout the post, and a general nervous/defensive tone; a very unusual reaction to a comment. This is further aided by the responses you have made below:
If someone says that what i do is scummy, and i'm not seeing why i try to clarify why i did that.If it's not enough to convince them after long discussion over one topic i just give up - maybe not the best way of dealing with it but if can't persuade others what i have in mind it will surely degrade into heated quarrel that's completely useless , and in this exact example it was mainly my part , i admit. :\

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 04:05:41 pm

-

Here, I see that same nervous, defensive styling.

If you think you're going to end up writing a null post, do some investigation or ask some questions. This is not an excuse, scum.
You're breaching into WIFOM territory here, a sign that you're getting nervous and disorganised. Yet another bad reaction, and a hint as to your true nature.
What part of this is Wifom except my bit strange habit of ending each sentence with "Or maybe you're scum ?" - not sure what gotten into me there.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

-

Dodging questions and poor replies. You're making up all sorts of unnecessary excuses and defenses for yourself, and they seem largely disorganised. It really does seem he touched a nerve, and you're just slipping up more and more.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

-

Why are you trying to stifle investigation and discussion? Any attempt to do so can only be considered scummy, as town benefits from any and all discussion.
The second bit is just pure WIFOM. I keep noticing that in your posts; bits of it spread everywhere. Bad arguments, bad invesitagation. As scum, you're finding yourself unable to make an good attacks, so you fall back on wine.
Well, the problem is that asking for other reasons to vote someone every time you want to accuse him isn't good way of finding evidence. I wouldn't mind it if he done it after posting his own reasons, unless the ones he posted are all he got.
How the second part is WIFOM, asking why he put that as a scumtell is something that's not derived from facts (his question) or i'm making up his post ?

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

-

More defensiveness, and you're beating around the bush with that question. Why didn't you simply answer the question straight on, instead of converting it into some poorly-formulated counter-attack?
Because i find it bit strange to say that i should ignore all comments on my scuminness.
You're scum finding himself unable to give reasons for the actions he's doing. There is no reason for you to dodge that question, and doing so only goes to show that you do not have an answer.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

-

You're firing back with a question of little importance or relevance, and you've failed to defend yourself regarding your emotions. You're defending yourself against attack that are not there, and fighting back against pressure that does not exist. Where did this sudden heat come from? Why weren't you this aggressive earlier, in D1?

A sudden change of behaviour, from lurker to attacker. Very suspicious.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

-

I say, you're not making that many points for your pick either, or making much of an attack. Your aggressiveness should be directed at scum and investigation, yet you sit here and defend yourself constantly.

Ugh, more passivity. If he is your prime suspect, then you should not be hesitating. You're making up excuses for not being functional town and doing it badly too.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 04:32:01 pm

-

Unaggressive my ass. You were clearly emotional, and no amount of excuses and spin doctoring is going to cover that up.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 04:32:01 pm

-

More waffling and indecision. Where did all that energy go? Why are you being such a useless town?

At least mention the reasons you have for Ottofar. Oh wait, you don't have any, do you? Yes. Do i attacked him ? No. Why are you making this up ? Why else would you keep ignoring question after question regarding your reasons?
Beacause he was not the one i suspected at this point ?  Not sure where you got that idea. Also i'm still not sure if should take replaced person slips into account when attacking replacement.

Quote from: Tyberix on February 28, 2011, 11:52:01 am

-

What are your reasons for the St.D pick, then? you haven't mentioned any of those, just like you neglected to mention your reasons for Ottofar. You're taking refuge in mindless bangwagonning, in the hopes that it will provide you with some reasons instead of making them yourself.
 
SaintDraze latest war-crime list:
-Completely ignoring scumhunt.
-Completely ignoring questions.
-Deciding who is scum before questioning or even someone's posting.
-Voting supported by "feeling" with "he done it other game" and Wifom.
-Nearly active lurking - no questions,no serious remarks,rarely simple answers but with astounding frequency.
-If he doesn't have any suspects by this time it's only because he can't find reasons to say that town is scummy.
-D1: voting yourself,giving up,heated argue with super from which in my opinion he tried to back off but couldn't.


I've picked Tyberix over St.D because to me it just seems St.D's just being a bad player; he's far too blatant and obvious, and though it may be a risky assumption, my gut tells me scum would show themselves in other ways.
That's the similar to what i think about him but i think he crossed the line between his annoying town play and his "trying too much to be towny" as scum it just doubles his natural scuminess.
And they have, in the form of Tyberix. His inconsistent behaviour is odd, and as are his reactions. He's backtracking and refusing to provide reasons, and being deliberately vague.

SaintDraze If you're giving LNCP chance to explain ,why you're not asking any questions ? You plan on being 100% neutral and leaving it undefinetely ? That's not how mafia works.

FakeEdit :
LNCP: Bit of my SaintDraze vote reasons are above, i'll post bit more later.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 05, 2011, 10:27:04 am

SaintDraze.


Looking back, both SaintDraze and Tyberix are guilty of some of the same crimes- most notably, being waffley and noncommittal with their votes.  Super is worse about at, and more besides.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1986225#msg1986225
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=32191
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1986510#msg1986510
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1986717#msg1986717
Starting off with antagonization.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1987231#msg1987231
Cracking as soon as a little pressure comes his way

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1989115#msg1989115
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1992815#msg1992815
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1994063#msg1994063
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1994861#msg1994861
(And more)
This obsession with those not voting him being scum is perplexing.  I can't see any logic or reason behind it, which naturally translates into scummy- he's almost daring people to vote for him.



I gotta run now, but this is the start of my case.  I'll finish it up when I have more time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 05, 2011, 02:06:10 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 05, 2011, 06:24:06 am

Jim Groovester: Why are you not questioning other town as well? Don't you think it's rather too quiet?

Yeah, it's quiet, but this is what happens when the game gets extended five days past its original deadline. People run out of things to talk about.

I'm not asking questions of other town because I don't have anything to ask them. Everybody's posted their case for their vote, I see no problem with their reasoning, and I happen to share many of their suspicions.

You do point out that Painiac hasn't posted in forever, so that's got me curious.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 05, 2011, 02:26:48 pm

LNCP Business, Laziness. All the ordinary stuff.
+I've been relatively unlurky here, compared to some of my recent games.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 05, 2011, 03:50:00 pm

Quote from: Ottofar on March 05, 2011, 02:26:48 pm

LNCP Business, Laziness. All the ordinary stuff.
+I've been relatively unlurky here, compared to some of my recent games.

Then:

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 05, 2011, 06:24:06 am

Who are your scumpicks and why? What is your read on everyone so far?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 05, 2011, 04:21:21 pm

St.D, who I'm voting. Explaint before.
Tyberix. Explaint before.
Japa was my third pick

Phonepost so no explains.
And my read on everyone else is town.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2011, 05:46:56 pm

I do have internet, and I AM able to end the Day at 9 PM today if it is wanted.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Ottofar on March 06, 2011, 01:47:05 am

I'm okay with that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 06, 2011, 04:38:40 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 04, 2011, 06:58:57 pm

You're scum, indecisive and looking for a target to attack. In this post, you've tried to attack Supercharazard - but you were too eager and too quick, and the only thing you've done is expose your filthy underbelly.
I agree that i'm indecisive and looking for target to attack - but that's not making me scum, how would i scumhunt without it, especially that i haven't got clear suspect at this point ? Waiting and watching is worse than attacking in my opinion.

Commitment is something you're expected to have when scumhunting. You scumhunt by investigating people.

You've had plenty of time to investigate people and it's well into D2 now, so if you don't have clear suspect by now you only have yourself to blame, and is a sure sign that something is wrong.

Waiting and watching is what you do, so don't pull that crap on me. You lurk and faff about with your votes, struggling to maintain your town persona. You boarded the St.D bandwagon with seemingly little original thought, only making occasional token "investigation" on a player that was already doomed, so that your strategy wouldn't be glaringly obvious. No matter if you board it a little early; in fact, it would have made a good defence against people accusing you of bandwagonning, and you were well aware that a new one against him would form in due time. There was no risk to it, and it would have been a better way to push for the lynch.

But I saw what you did. You're scum.

Quote from: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 04, 2011, 06:58:57 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 02:43:41 pm

-

Suddenly, you're acting very defensive. Did Jim's piercing question unnerve you?

I can see you're repeating yourself throughout the post, and a general nervous/defensive tone; a very unusual reaction to a comment. This is further aided by the responses you have made below:
If someone says that what i do is scummy, and i'm not seeing why i try to clarify why i did that.If it's not enough to convince them after long discussion over one topic i just give up - maybe not the best way of dealing with it but if can't persuade others what i have in mind it will surely degrade into heated quarrel that's completely useless , and in this exact example it was mainly my part , i admit. :\

Mind if you rewrite the first bit? I can't seem to read it well enough to understand.

Yes, but the question is why you came on to him with such heat, especially since it was unprovoked. You haven't answered that one.

Quote from: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 04, 2011, 06:58:57 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 05:07:03 pm

-

Why are you trying to stifle investigation and discussion? Any attempt to do so can only be considered scummy, as town benefits from any and all discussion.
The second bit is just pure WIFOM. I keep noticing that in your posts; bits of it spread everywhere. Bad arguments, bad invesitagation. As scum, you're finding yourself unable to make an good attacks, so you fall back on wine.
Well, the problem is that asking for other reasons to vote someone every time you want to accuse him isn't good way of finding evidence. I wouldn't mind it if he done it after posting his own reasons, unless the ones he posted are all he got.
How the second part is WIFOM, asking why he put that as a scumtell is something that's not derived from facts (his question) or i'm making up his post ?

Hmm, nevermind. That's what I get for posting at 1AM.

Quote from: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 04, 2011, 06:58:57 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 07:08:05 am

-

More defensiveness, and you're beating around the bush with that question. Why didn't you simply answer the question straight on, instead of converting it into some poorly-formulated counter-attack?
Because i find it bit strange to say that i should ignore all comments on my scuminness.
You're scum finding himself unable to give reasons for the actions he's doing. There is no reason for you to dodge that question, and doing so only goes to show that you do not have an answer.

But you never really did answer his question properly. Is it because you have something to hide?

Quote from: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 04, 2011, 06:58:57 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 22, 2011, 04:32:01 pm

-

More waffling and indecision. Where did all that energy go? Why are you being such a useless town?

At least mention the reasons you have for Ottofar. Oh wait, you don't have any, do you? Yes. Do i attacked him ? No. Why are you making this up ? Why else would you keep ignoring question after question regarding your reasons?
Beacause he was not the one i suspected at this point ?  Not sure where you got that idea. Also i'm still not sure if should take replaced person slips into account when attacking replacement.

Arrite.

But why did you simply wait? Why didn't you take the initiative and question and attack him yourself? Why were you being this passive?

Passivity only helps the scum. If your readings prove insufficient, attack them and investigate yourself, and push them to reveal more information instead of sitting there sucking your thumb.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Toaster on March 06, 2011, 09:08:28 pm

Sorry for the delay.


Anyway, after that, SaintDraze doesn't post for the rest of D1.  He's either given up or trying to blow off steam, since he sees Super is starting to take some heat at that point. 

At the start of D2, he opens up with this ultra-passive post:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2027770#msg2027770

When pressed, he brings up the same points with no reasoning. 

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2030320#msg2030320
This is just bad- failing to provide reasoning, and apologizing for a lynch.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2030537#msg2030537
Finally with the same lame reasons, coupled with defensiveness.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2030748#msg2030748
More weak-to-no reasoning.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2040691#msg2040691
Here's a good one- FoSing LNCP after he replaces before he does anything.  He's currently voting no one.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2043971#msg2043971
Says he has no suspicion of LNCP after FoSing him.

Finally, he's still not voting.

If I can look at nearly every post he makes and find something scummy about it, I'm pretty sure he's scum.


Tyberix I'm less sure of now.  He was open with his suspicions on D2, and I'm unsure now whether his lack of intro vote was an attempt to see where the wagon would lead or honest uncertainly.  I'll give him a more thorough read D3.


LNCP:  Re your question:  D2 is a bit lurky, but I've got one good suspect and a couple people to watch.  Tyberix is in need of scrutiny.  Painiac has said some questionable things, and has said nothing lately.  Ottofar I always read as scummy (every game, ever.  It's just him), but he's backed up his vote with reasons for once.  Japa was odd, but apparently it was genuine disinterest, so my read on you is currently low.  I haven't seen any scum tells out of Jim.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 1: Supercharainnocent, Am I Right?
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2011, 10:34:15 pm

Someone began whispering and those whisper echoed throughout the cave holes. They were clutching their pointy-sticks and staring each other down with words like "ooga" and "ooga ooga." Some had even come up with new fancy combination words like "oogooga," which would have been caused many a lady to faint, had they been present.

So, when the eyes began looking at SaintDraze, his bloodthirsty eyes thirsting for blood, he naturally began the name-calling and finger-pointing. His "oogas" exceeded a barrier far beyond indecency or even coherency.

Luckily, they had decided to use his pelt as a furnishing for the cave, which made his death completely justifiable. In fact, it looked so good that wondered what had taken them so long.

In this moment of group-bonding, it seems that they had a revelation of understanding. SaintDraze could never had been the guy who trapped them in here: He's blind and therefore was never even allowed to come hunting anyway!

It all makes so much sense. And if you say otherwise, this pointy-stick is going somewhere where you wouldn't want it.

Your brain.

By the way, it's mandatory union break time.

Vote Count
------------------------
SaintDraze - Painiac, Tyberix, Ottofar, Jim Groovester, Toaster,
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop -
Tyberix - lordnincompoop,
Painiac -
Toaster -
Jim Groovester -

Not Voting - SaintDraze,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

SaintDraze has been lynched.

SaintDraze was a Townie (town).

It is now Night.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 2: SaintDrazed And Confused.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2011, 08:17:54 am

Returning from your break, you find that Jim Groovester hasn't returned. He's not usually incredibly lazy like this.

"Ooga?" someone asks. You all decide to look.

Ah, no wonder he was taking so long. He was busy hiding under this boulder, that lazy bum. It's too bad the boulder was several tons and that the majority of his body has been pressed into a thin sheet. He even took the time to write "Ooga ooga oog!" on the boulder in his own blood.

You have to admit, he's got style. Too bad he was only 50 points away from that extra life.

You get back to whatever it was that you were doing before you stopped doing it. It being the thing you were doing. Before you went on break.

Jim Groovester has been killed!

Jim Groovester was a Townie (town).

Vote Count
------------------------
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop -
Tyberix -
Painiac -
Toaster -

Not Voting - Painiac, Tyberix, Ottofar, Toaster, lordnincompoop,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

It is now Day.

---

By the way, this is lylo, meaning that if you do not lynch a member of the Mafia, Town will lose.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 08, 2011, 09:45:13 am

my bah[/b]d entirely....

Sorry town

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 08, 2011, 11:58:14 am

All right, kids, welcome to LYLO.  This is the time to be completely honest and up front about everything.  Even though there are no hammers here, you still need to think before you vote.  We're out of extra chances- it's game over if scum doesn't hang today.


First up- if you're a cop, it's time to claim now.  Tell us who you investigated N1 and N2 and the results, even if you got town.  That will at least give us some information.

Next, everyone needs to come out with their suspicion lists.  Here's mine:


Tyberix:  Are you ready to take a firm stand today?  Your D2 can be summed up in one word: noncommittal.

Quote from: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

I agree that i'm indecisive and looking for target to attack - but that's not making me scum, how would i scumhunt without it, especially that i haven't got clear suspect at this point ? Waiting and watching is worse than attacking in my opinion.

This statement is fairly incriminating, now that I study it.  You're combining excuses, defensiveness, and indecisiveness in one big scummy bundle.

As far as other points go, here's what I got from a reread:

Your D1 starts off well enough, until we get to here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1996678#msg1996678).  This attack on Super bothered me the first time I read it, and it still bugs me now.  You back off it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1996697#msg1996697) quickly, claiming misunderstanding, which I believe may be true.  However, there's one point that's easy to miss there- you were voting SaintDraze, but you didn't go back to him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2001660#msg2001660).  In fact, it was several posts of yours later before you even mention him again.  Why?  What changed in that short interval to make Saint no longer voteworthy? 

My theory is you saw a chance to get off the bandwagon and took it.

For the rest of the day and D2, you're noncommittal with your vote, and are afraid to take a stand on any issue.  I'm calling you out now- who is scum?  Why?


Painiac:  Way too quiet these past few days.  Since you haven't posted anywhere in several days, I'd normally assume you had just quit.  However, let's look at your last post.

Quote from: Painiac on March 02, 2011, 12:48:57 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 02, 2011, 09:12:06 am

Painiac:  You mentioned earlier you would do some questioning to get a better read on Ottofar.  Why haven't you done so?

Uhh, I am being lazy prick. I am pretty sure of my scumpicks, so I don't bother to do anything besides observing if anybody does some weird things. I am losing quickly my interest when I'm getting easy win. With scums openly telling what they are... Meh.

This, in the context of today, is horrible.  The only reason I could see you having that sentiment is if you know a mislynch is coming without your help, and you decide to go screw off instead of post here.

I want more from you.  Your "easy win" isn't coming if you're town.  Tell us who you suspect now.

In fact, Web, could you please Prod Painiac?  He might even need a reminder.


Ottofar:  You're known for acting without giving your reasons.  It's the main reason I always read you as scummy.  You've done better this game than others, but I definitely want reasons here at LYLO.


LNCP:  Is Tyberix still your #1 pick?  Who is your #2 pick?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Tyberix on March 08, 2011, 01:30:09 pm

LYLO it is then. Do every game where SaintDraze is lynched  he flips town ?

My Prime Suspect right now: Painiac

Spoiler: Painiac (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 06:50:39 am

Quote from: Tyberix on February 16, 2011, 07:16:09 pm

Painiac How would you choose doc target ,if you were one, on N1 ?

I would do scumhunt of course, and guess who is scum. It's always two people less to choose from. Next, I would try to guess which person is most agressive, experienced pro-town. Then next, wifom ensues. If scum is sly? Or want to kill most dangerous threat? Do he suspect that town has doc? Hell. I would probably not drink wine, and protect most pro-town guy anyway. Loss of less useful townie wouldn't hurt that much.

From the beginning he seems to response with vague answers that are simply factored with town look in mind,he avoids stating  specific people just to have open way to bandwagon or defend them later. Also from the same beginning he seems to be sure that he will find two scum almost instantly. That's at least bad approach or scummy overconfidence.

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 11:29:25 am

Okay, un-FoS Japa. While there was some scummy things, your talk sounds good overall. Good luck on scumhunt, then.

Scumhunt is supossed to be aggresive. Look, he conviced me, and I'm not FoS-ing him now. I'm feeling some chainsawing here to protect him instead... Well, okay, if he is scum, I can always press him at another time.

First the strange need to say he noticed nothing wrong but at the same time there is "something" scummy just in case somebody asked about it. Why not tell us what's that then ? After that the very strange statement that scumhunt could be easened or postponed,while previous sentence says something opposite.

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 12:09:21 pm

So, you threatening me now? If you will turn up townie, I will be persecuted? While you are maybe true, it is weird thing to said to townie. My survival is not my main target, I'm winning with team anyway. Yea, it would be bad to waste lynch over me, so I would bite and scumhunt with all my might. But survival isn't my main target. Yet, if you are scum, I can understand why survival is important to you.

Why even reconsider option that someone's town just because he says so ? On D1 this part could be only blind shooting or scum information. It wouldn't be as important if you not used it to retaliate on him. Concealed town-claim and hidden threat that you would attack anyone who would attack you ? Also i find it a bit strange that he never directly say someone's is scum concealing it behind "if you're scum ..." instead.

Quote from: Painiac on February 18, 2011, 12:27:12 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on February 18, 2011, 12:16:54 pm

Painiac You would want to see hammer vote lynch in this game ? Why ?

I never stated I want hammer vote lynch. Yes, I am pretty sure SaintDraze is scum, and lynching him already would speed up the game. But, it never hurts to scumhunt more for second scum. And, other townies are also scumhunting, so stopping them would be untowny thing to do. Yea, it is boring as hell, but we want to practice scumhunting techniques and everything.

Here start his "I'm sure and game is over" attitude . He assumes that SaintDraze is already lynched so we should look for someone to make scapegoat of. We want to practice scumhunting, without asking any questions and looking for targets instead  ? That's what you wanted to say ?

Quote from: Painiac on February 22, 2011, 06:39:47 pm

I don't know, I am horrible at hiding things. I don't really enjoy playing as scum. I can only guess.

Well, I would probably do some delicate scapegoating under false scumhunting, and I would try to vote for shortening. I would be trying to be active and pro-town, with some scumhunting and whatever. I would lie to myself about being townie, so I would appear in my mind as townie. Everything else would come somewhat natural then.

unvote SaintDraze, vote Supercharazad

Okay, you are rising as my main suspect. Can you explain why you are suspecting Jim - you have FoS-ed him - so quickly? I'm feeling something like chainsawing there...

Appeal to emotion with the good old "i would make the most obvious scumtells!' which he personally pointed as obvious in his previous posts. Of course divulging into WFIOM about scum plans is useless but luring us into easy situation illusion is not for scum.

Next his two post when asked for restating his reasons are just quoting his previous list. If it was to happen in a short period of time it wouldn't be problem, but if he doesn't change his reasons or add new ones - he just get tunnel-vision on his target, or just to limit possibility for scummy slip ?

Quote from: Painiac on February 24, 2011, 06:55:01 pm

...
Believe me, he is my second person on list. He is quite scummy. I could even provide more arguments than you why he can be scum. But you see, I can't really say that him annoying you was scummy or newby. He is your buddy, I suppose. So, he could be simply careless and was joking around for the hell of it. It's natural for him, I guess... It's not like I'm defending him. You are simply more suspicious than him.

Here we can see something  strange : He could provide arguments "why he can be scum" not "why he is". That makes me think that you were aware that these arguments are false.Also it's not like changing your vote for town that looks more scummy at the moment is big deal for scum, right ?

Quote from: Painiac on February 28, 2011, 12:07:11 pm

What I am thinking? Vote SaintDraze. It seems he wasn't newby, but scummy. I was searching for some deeper meaning in his post, I don't know why. I had wifomed myself only. With Supercharazad death, I think it is really clear. I am terribly tired (4 hours of sleep, oh god), so I don't want to restate my thoughts on matter. I had posted them already. Well, after some sleep I can deliver it later if someone is really that interested.

Clear ? Yes, as if town death is 100% confirmation that someone he accused is scum. You jump from certain scum to newbie then back to certain scum on a whim apparently.

Quote from: Painiac on March 02, 2011, 12:48:57 pm

Uhh, I am being lazy prick. I am pretty sure of my scumpicks, so I don't bother to do anything besides observing if anybody does some weird things. I am losing quickly my interest when I'm getting easy win. With scums openly telling what they are... Meh.

Good Summary: Passive,lurky,certain of who is scum before lynch,tunnel-vision on, with easy scum win.

Most od D1 and D2 you were jumping around Super and SaintDraze case certain that one is worth lynching,of course just because they were town and were good targets not because they acted scummy. Unless you have split personality or lost your memory mid-game you seem to choose your vote based on current voting trend.

Toaster  About D1 supercharazad vote : i think i haven't voted SaintDraze there, but anyway most of previous and super vote were rather just pressure ones than possible scum type.

Ottofar: What's your opinion on Toaster D2 play ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 08, 2011, 02:02:15 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 08, 2011, 11:58:14 am

Tyberix ... firm stand

That would be quite the event, wouldn't it?

Tyberix, do you have nothing to say about my arguments?

Quote from: Toaster on March 08, 2011, 11:58:14 am

Quote from: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

I agree that i'm indecisive and looking for target to attack - but that's not making me scum, how would i scumhunt without it, especially that i haven't got clear suspect at this point ? Waiting and watching is worse than attacking in my opinion.

This statement is fairly incriminating, now that I study it.  You're combining excuses, defensiveness, and indecisiveness in one big scummy bundle.

As far as other points go, here's what I got from a reread:

Your D1 starts off well enough, until we get to here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1996678#msg1996678).  This attack on Super bothered me the first time I read it, and it still bugs me now.  You back off it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1996697#msg1996697) quickly, claiming misunderstanding, which I believe may be true.  However, there's one point that's easy to miss there- you were voting SaintDraze, but you didn't go back to him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2001660#msg2001660).  In fact, it was several posts of yours later before you even mention him again.  Why?  What changed in that short interval to make Saint no longer voteworthy? 

My theory is you saw a chance to get off the bandwagon and took it.

For the rest of the day and D2, you're noncommittal with your vote, and are afraid to take a stand on any issue.  I'm calling you out now- who is scum?  Why?

LNCP:  Is Tyberix still your #1 pick?  Who is your #2 pick?

Tyberix is still by #1 scumpick, yes. I'm seeing if I can muster a second volley. My second was St.D, but seeing as he's dead it's not exactly a valid target.

Regarding other picks, I'm feeling up Painiac and Ottofar for having legendary levels of lurkiness, though Ottofar at least participated D2.

You're being rather indecisive too, Toaster. Who are you voting for, this is LYLO after all, and action is important.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 08, 2011, 02:03:34 pm

Oh, sure, kill the guy teaching you how to play.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: Tyberix on March 08, 2011, 03:18:27 pm

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 06, 2011, 04:38:40 pm

...

Commitment is something you're expected to have when scumhunting. You scumhunt by investigating people.

You've had plenty of time to investigate people and it's well into D2 now, so if you don't have clear suspect by now you only have yourself to blame, and is a sure sign that something is wrong. This is sad truth :|

Waiting and watching is what you do, so don't pull that crap on me. You lurk and faff about with your votes, struggling to maintain your town persona. You boarded the St.D bandwagon with seemingly little original thought, only making occasional token "investigation" on a player that was already doomed, so that your strategy wouldn't be glaringly obvious. No matter if you board it a little early; in fact, it would have made a good defence against people accusing you of bandwagonning, and you were well aware that a new one against him would form in due time. There was no risk to it, and it would have been a better way to push for the lynch.
Wait.You mean fact that i voted someone that got lynched afterwards by majority vote and was acting scummy is wrong ? He simply seemed as reasonable choice, if votes would change i wouldn't mind, my goal was to state who i want to see lynched not to get to unanimous vote situation.

But I saw what you did. You're scum. What i did ? Dun Dun Dun

Quote from: Tyberix on February 21, 2011, 02:43:41 pm

Rewrite: If i don't understand the reason why somebody votes me i ask about it until i get something out of it, after that i try to convince them they're wrong (of course unless they're right about something). If it degrades into useless NO YES NO i just give up, it always end up as emotional tunnel vision.

Mind if you rewrite the first bit? I can't seem to read it well enough to understand.

Yes, but the question is why you came on to him with such heat, especially since it was unprovoked. You haven't answered that one. I just get annoyed by accusation about what seemed to me as simple question to start discussion. That's most condensate answer i could write based on my memory


But you never really did answer his question properly. Is it because you have something to hide?
If i could get to the question trough this quote mass i would answer it with pleasure.


Arrite.

But why did you simply wait? Why didn't you take the initiative and question and attack him yourself? Why were you being this passive? That's what i'm trying to do but i'm just not as good in it as i want to.

Passivity only helps the scum. If your readings prove insufficient, attack them and investigate yourself, and push them to reveal more information instead of sitting there sucking your thumb.

Sorry for formatting but these quotes within quotes make me dizzy :|

Btw : Jim can still provide IC advice ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 2: Lordskullkersmashed
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 08, 2011, 03:20:57 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on March 08, 2011, 03:18:27 pm

Btw : Jim can still provide IC advice ?

I would like to know this also.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 08, 2011, 03:57:08 pm

LNCP:  Regarding the lack of vote:

Quote from: Toaster on March 08, 2011, 11:58:14 am

All right, kids, welcome to LYLO.  This is the time to be completely honest and up front about everything.  Even though there are no hammers here, you still need to think before you vote.  We're out of extra chances- it's game over if scum doesn't hang today.

I was taking my own advice there.  I suppose it is less important for non-hammer games, but it's something to keep in mind.

Anyway, I thought I had made it clear that Tyberix was my first suspect.  In any case, Tyberix, how sure are you on Painiac? 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Ottofar on March 09, 2011, 03:05:15 pm

I had stuff today. Was meaning to post, but yeah.
I'm going to a sports camp over the weekend. Expect only PFP's then.
I'd be posting tomorrow.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 09, 2011, 03:33:17 pm

...


Non-participation at LYLO is a good way to lose quickly.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Ottofar on March 09, 2011, 03:42:03 pm

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 09, 2011, 03:57:13 pm

That was really directed at everybody.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 09, 2011, 04:53:16 pm

[I should expand on that.

There are three townies and two mafiosos remaining.  If the two scum both vote the same person, it will take all three townies united to beat that vote.  If you sit in the background and rest on your laurels (or worse yet, not vote), then you're handing scum the game.  You need to get out and find the scum.  If you're absolutely convinced the person you are voting is scum, you should be trying to get everyone else to vote that target.]

I am still convinced Tyberix is scum.  He's brought a decent case today (unlike yesterday- see my first post on him), but it does not absolve him from prior.  He basically ignored my attack on him from today.


Web:  Please prod or replace Painiac.  He hasn't posted in a week.

Everyone else: Get on and get your priorities in order.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 09, 2011, 05:28:23 pm

Painiac has been prodded.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Tyberix on March 09, 2011, 06:11:02 pm

Toaster::

Quote from: Toaster on March 08, 2011, 03:57:08 pm

Anyway, I thought I had made it clear that Tyberix was my first suspect.  In any case, Tyberix, how sure are you on Painiac? 

Sure enough to vote him, but not enough to not listen to his explanation if it would be convincing enough and he shows some proof against someone else that i missed there's always a chance i change it. But that's why i attack him - to be completely sure after all.

Quote from: Toaster on March 09, 2011, 04:53:16 pm

I am still convinced Tyberix is scum.  He's brought a decent case today (unlike yesterday- see my first post on him), but it does not absolve him from prior.  He basically ignored my attack on him from today.

If you really find it not enough ,ok more detailed response below:

Quote from: Toaster on March 08, 2011, 11:58:14 am

Tyberix:  Are you ready to take a firm stand today?  Your D2 can be summed up in one word: noncommittal.

Quote from: Tyberix on March 05, 2011, 06:41:12 am

I agree that i'm indecisive and looking for target to attack - but that's not making me scum, how would i scumhunt without it, especially that i haven't got clear suspect at this point ? Waiting and watching is worse than attacking in my opinion.

This statement is fairly incriminating, now that I study it.  You're combining excuses, defensiveness, and indecisiveness in one big scummy bundle.
Reasons and defense when defending against attack that i find at least bit sensible is in my opinion only option than useless attacking the attacker. Of course i could refuse that i was indecisive, but even i see i should be more decided back then and what's the use of obvious lying like that?
As far as other points go, here's what I got from a reread:
Translation : As far as one other point goes - really i see here one reason derived from wrong assumption
Your D1 starts off well enough, until we get to here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1996678#msg1996678).  This attack on Super bothered me the first time I read it, and it still bugs me now.  You back off it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg1996697#msg1996697) quickly, claiming misunderstanding, which I believe may be true.  However, there's one point that's easy to miss there- you were voting SaintDraze, but you didn't go back to him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2001660#msg2001660).  In fact, it was several posts of yours later before you even mention him again.  Why?  What changed in that short interval to make Saint no longer voteworthy?  As i said before as i read super remark i written this vote/attack. When i read it again i noticed it was my mistake in understanding it - why i voted ? few super strange behavior put him on verge of being one of my prime suspects, and this just tipped the scales. But after i noticed my error i unvoted him and give him a second chance of redemption - especially because it made me think he could do some errors like this too we're both new to this after all. Why you insist that i voted SaintDraze back there ? I was voting Japa - mainly because to make him speak more - and lifted it after he done so, that wasn't a accusation vote in my opinion,rather prod one. Rest of this accusation is based on that fact so it's bit useless to answer that "what if" reasoning. Besides SaintDraze behavior is so unpredictable that i'm not sure if i could ever guess when he is scum,that's why i taken his scumtells with lower importance than everyone else.

My theory is you saw a chance to get off the bandwagon and took it. You write these thing beforehand and then fill in the names ?

For the rest of the day and D2, you're noncommittal with your vote, and are afraid to take a stand on any issue.  I'm calling you out now- who is scum?  Why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 10, 2011, 09:07:17 am

I have to give you the D1 point.  I managed to miss your prior change of vote, so the line on attack over Super/Saint is completely invalid.

I'm still confident in my vote, however.  You're recovering from your D2 mistakes, but they still exist.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 1: Ominous Words...
Post by: Ottofar on March 10, 2011, 11:05:15 am

Quote from: Painiac on February 16, 2011, 06:57:40 pm

SaintDraze.

Reasonless FoS.

Quote from: Painiac on February 17, 2011, 11:29:25 am

While there was some scummy things, your talk sounds good overall.

...While there was some scummy things.
No. You say all that you think if you're town.

Quote from: Painiac on February 18, 2011, 12:27:12 pm

But, it never hurts to scumhunt more for second scum

But you never did this.

Quote from: Painiac on February 22, 2011, 06:39:47 pm

I don't know, I am horrible at hiding things.

Emotional appeal.

Ehum. Packing time. I'll return, but in short, Painiac's been non-committal, lurky, and tunnel-esque. Also, he's been lurking huge amounts, which is how the last BM was won.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Ottofar on March 10, 2011, 11:05:38 am

Excuse me, second-to-last BM.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Tyberix on March 10, 2011, 04:06:38 pm

You want to make us die slow painful death :( ?

How we can go on with this if there's no discussion ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Night 2: SaintDrazed And Confused.
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2011, 05:15:27 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop -
Tyberix - lordnincompoop, Toaster,
Painiac - Tyberix,
Toaster -

Not Voting - Painiac, Ottofar,

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

Painiac needs a replacement.

Title: Re: [REPLACEMENT NEEDED] Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2011, 11:16:48 pm

SaintDraze has replaced Painiac.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2011, 11:50:58 pm

lordnincompoop has been prodded.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Ottofar on March 11, 2011, 12:41:38 am

Quote from: Tyberix on March 10, 2011, 04:06:38 pm

You want to make us die slow painful death :( ?

How we can go on with this if there's no discussion ?

Scum won the BM I was talking about.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 11, 2011, 12:49:25 am

I'm dead but you're going to get my advice anyway because teaching you how to play is more important than respecting the rules for dead players.

This is a terrible lylo right now. Nobody's said anything. You, and by you, I mean every person in the game right now, needs to get their shit together right now.

You should be voting who you think is scum, arguing with everybody and trying to convince everybody to vote your scum target. This abject lack of participation is going to lose the game.

If you're town, half the remaining players in the game are scum. There's a record to look over for everybody, so go look over it. If you pay enough attention you should figure it out. Once you do, go convince everybody else to vote your target.

And dammit, people. Play the goddamn game. Not saying anything at lylo is not doing that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 11, 2011, 07:24:56 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on March 11, 2011, 12:49:25 am

I'm dead but you're going to get my advice anyway because teaching you how to play is more important than respecting the rules for dead players.

This is a terrible lylo right now. Nobody's said anything. You, and by you, I mean every person in the game right now, needs to get their shit together right now.

You should be voting who you think is scum, arguing with everybody and trying to convince everybody to vote your scum target. This abject lack of participation is going to lose the game.

If you're town, half the remaining players in the game are scum. There's a record to look over for everybody, so go look over it. If you pay enough attention you should figure it out. Once you do, go convince everybody else to vote your target.

And dammit, people. Play the goddamn game. Not saying anything at lylo is not doing that.

Everyone should be following this.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 08:30:45 am

Quote from: Toaster on March 09, 2011, 04:53:16 pm

There are three townies and two mafiosos remaining.  If the two scum both vote the same person, it will take all three townies united to beat that vote.  If you sit in the background and rest on your laurels (or worse yet, not vote), then you're handing scum the game.  You need to get out and find the scum.  If you're absolutely convinced the person you are voting is scum, you should be trying to get everyone else to vote that target.]

Welp I got replaced in because It was so blaringly obvious who scum is....

Toaster and lordNinJapa....

Specificly because they are doing exactly what toaster just mentioned!

Toaster

Namely because my gut instinct was right!
Toaster and Japa didn't vote me because they knew I wasn't scum, and it would look better if they didn't vote for me at all...


Me, ottofar, and tyberix are the last townies...
we should vote for toaster first since he was the master mind behind this.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 09:31:19 am

Jim's completely right, and I've clearly not been doing a good job at communicating this.  I apologize for sucking as an IC today.

If you do not participate at LYLO, you might as well never have joined the game in the first place!

Everyone, myself included, has been doing a very poor job at scum hunting today.  Games like this are a scum's paradise, because they have to do nothing to win.  If you have any interest in all in winning, come in and throw down at least a small wall of text.  If you don't have any interest in winning, why did you join?

As homework everyone needs to get on and post their thoughts on everyone.


Specifically:

SaintDraze:  You mean I'm scum because I thought Supercharazard was scummier than you?  That's not a good reason to be voting at LYLO.  Get more reasoning if you want to press your attack.


Ottofar:  You're not voting.  That's unforgivable at this point in the game.  Make some time, get on, and vote WITH REASONS for whom you suspect!  Be wordy!


Tyberix:  You're probably doing the best so far today, but you're not pressing your attack enough.  Does it still apply to SaintDraze?


LNCP:  You're lurking up a storm.  Yes, your vote is in, but start grilling everyone else to figure out your pick for scum #2!  Let us know your pick.



Scumpicks, in order:
Tyberix
Ottofar/SaintDraze (Tough to place him since he just replaced)
LNCP


Finally, extend.  Let's really do this.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Tyberix on March 11, 2011, 10:22:02 am

I agree that if this not going to move faster extend is necessary.

Painiac->SaintDraze
-All my previous reasons are still standing(really replacments at this points are hard to incorporate into logical scumhunt :| Btw we got 4 replacements overall already :( ?)
-You say that toaster/LNCP are scum, right ? And you vote Toaster because LNCP did what he said he shouldn't ?
-Something more about your theory should be useful
-What do you mean that your gut feel was right ? You have some kind of confirmation now ?
Toaster
-You were distancing yourself a bit D2 that could be because of IC notes but it felt like you wanted to remain on neutral ground.
-If i'm scum in your opinion who do you think is my scumbuddy ? (That question sounds strange :P)
Lordnincompoop
-Lurk Lurk Lurk Lurk and so on..
-You get your focus changed from single picks to everyone every second post. Do that have any use ?
-That's bit strange but it looks like after replacement you get more aggressive in your scumhunt than before,why is that ?
Ottofar
-Again Lurk Lurk
-Same question why you not voted anyone in your previous post ?
And looks like we have no cops :(

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 10:29:19 am

It's either Ottofar or SaintDraze.  At this point, I'm not sure- I'd like to hear more from them.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 10:54:14 am

I know that you are scum,
Because there was a cop...
Cop claim
:D

Tyberix-Yep My last Iffy scum pick was Painiac, Who actually turned out to be a cop! Hahahaha!!!!
So Now I Know that Toaster and LNP are scum.

Because painiac inspected tyber and ottofar.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 10:59:14 am

So why didn't you claim that in your first post?

In any case, you should really start trying to figure out which of those two is a Godfather, because you clearly hit one.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 11:10:34 am

That might be the case...

But I have a higher reason to believe that you have been trying to influence events through the whole game...

You had been coaxing Japa to vote on day one (after some repeated nudging to make it seem like you were just doing your duty as IC) And now you are coaxing LNP...

You are a puppeteer toaster...

YOUR STRINGS KNOW ONLY MALIC!!!*serious dramatic face*

On the off case that LNP is but a mear pawn in your schemes I choose to vote you...

Your toast smells of brimstone and cheese >.>

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Tyberix on March 11, 2011, 11:24:09 am

What what what ? COP CLAIM ? That's serious.You should have done it in your first post.
Who you/painiac inspected on what night and what results you got ?
That could be reason why he was so undecided...

Now i need to reread that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 11:37:05 am

Really?

!#%!

Noob mistake then.

well I claim cop now


N1 Tyberix town
N2 ottofar town

re-reading over the game It appears that japapoop and toaster already had a plan of attack.
Super then Tyberix...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 11, 2011, 11:48:25 am

I was very busy, sorry. School and moar visitors.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 08:30:45 am

Quote from: Toaster on March 09, 2011, 04:53:16 pm

There are three townies and two mafiosos remaining.  If the two scum both vote the same person, it will take all three townies united to beat that vote.  If you sit in the background and rest on your laurels (or worse yet, not vote), then you're handing scum the game.  You need to get out and find the scum.  If you're absolutely convinced the person you are voting is scum, you should be trying to get everyone else to vote that target.]

Welp I got replaced in because It was so blaringly obvious who scum is....

Toaster and lordNinJapa....

Specificly because they are doing exactly what toaster just mentioned!

You're kidding, right? You don't get replaced in simply because you know who is scum. You get replaced in because you were the first to ask.

And I was busy. I'm not resting on my laurels or sitting in the background.
Don't like it? Well, deal with it.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 08:30:45 am

Toaster and Japa didn't vote me because they knew I wasn't scum, and it would look better if they didn't vote for me at all...

Awful, awful reason. Scum know everyone else aren't scum, so why would they target one person specifically? You're not that special.

Not to mention that this is pure, unbridled WIFOM. Stop it. Build your case properly.

At this stage in the game, you should be able to provide multitudes of reasons and examples, yet you've only provided a few weak, vague points and half-assed fragments of arguments. Why are you voting like this? Why can't you provide proper attacks?

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 08:30:45 am

Me, ottofar, and tyberix are the last townies...
we should vote for toaster first since he was the master mind behind this.

Do you take us for fools? People will not vote for a person just because you say so.

Says who? Where are you getting this information? Do you have access to the scumchat to prove this?

You're telling them to vote based on a wild, unsubstantiated claim. If you're going to attack, do so properly and with examples.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 10:54:14 am

I know that you are scum,
Because there was a cop...
Cop claim
:D

Tyberix-Yep My last Iffy scum pick was Painiac, Who actually turned out to be a cop! Hahahaha!!!!
So Now I Know that Toaster and LNP are scum.

Because painiac inspected tyber and ottofar.

You're not going to convince anyone on an unfounded copclaim. For all we know, you're lying through your teeth.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 11:10:34 am

That might be the case...

But I have a higher reason to believe that you have been trying to influence events through the whole game...

You had been coaxing Japa to vote on day one (after some repeated nudging to make it seem like you were just doing your duty as IC) And now you are coaxing LNP...

You are a puppeteer toaster...

YOUR STRINGS KNOW ONLY MALIC!!!*serious dramatic face*

On the off case that LNP is but a mear pawn in your schemes I choose to vote you...

Your toast smells of brimstone and cheese >.>

Oh great, more uselessness from you.

Stop messing around; this is LYLO.

Also, your reasons for voting Toaster are incredibly vague. "I have a higher reason to believe that you have been trying to influence events through the whole game"? Really? Is that all you have? If you want reactions, you'll have to give them a bit more to react to.

Japa needed coaxing because he refused to participate in the game, and the coaxing wasn't done at anyone. If he started voting, then all the better; we'd have had a better town. I fail to see how this is scummy at all.

I haven't been passive, and I don't think I ever needed "coaxing". Show me a post where Toaster did this and I'll eat my hat.

Also, if I was scum along with Toaster, then why would I need "coaxing" at all? Your account is contradictory.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 11:37:05 am

re-reading over the game It appears that japapoop and toaster already had a plan of attack.
Super then Tyberix...

Again, you're being incredibly vague. Elaborate and specify the details of this so-called "plan".

---

SaintDraze, you're spitting out scumtells like nobody's business. You're pushing for a lynch without adequate reasons that wouldn't nearly be enough in any stage of the game, let alone LYLO. All your arguments seem to rely on either WIFOM or some sort of authority you're expecting to come with the claim.

Your reasons for our pairing:

• re-reading over the game It appears that japapoop and toaster already had a plan of attack. Vague
• You had been coaxing Japa to vote on day one (after some repeated nudging to make it seem like you were just doing your duty as IC) And now you are coaxing LNP... Vague, Contradictory
• Toaster and Japa didn't vote me because they knew I wasn't scum Vague, Asinine, WIFOM
• we should vote for toaster first since he was the master mind behind this. Vague, Unfounded
• Because painiac inspected tyber and ottofar. Weak, Unfounded

I haven't even removed anything.

Copclaims do not make you exempt from participation. Elaborate or die.

---

Quote from: Tyberix on March 11, 2011, 10:22:02 am

Lordnincompoop
-You get your focus changed from single picks to everyone every second post. Do that have any use ?

What?

Quote from: Tyberix on March 11, 2011, 10:22:02 am

Lordnincompoop
-That's bit strange but it looks like after replacement you get more aggressive in your scumhunt than before,why is that ?

Because I got less busy?

Also, because it was D2. There's nothing much to go on at D1.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 12:07:28 pm

By me getting replaced in to the game because I know who scum are I meant I asked as soon as I realized who they were...

Why are you defending toaster LPN?

He could have probably done that on his own.

Trying to hide your scumness through a haze of questions that can't be asked through fear of causing WIFoM?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 11, 2011, 12:19:11 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 12:07:28 pm

Why are you defending toaster LPN?

He could have probably done that on his own.

Yes, he could have.

The reason I attacked you was because you were being incredibly vague and scummy. You made audacious claims without any evidence to support it. This is no way for town to behave.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 12:07:28 pm

Trying to hide your scumness through a haze of questions that can't be asked through fear of causing WIFoM?

I don't even know what this means. How would I hide my scumminess through questions that don't exist?

I don't worry about causing WIFOM because I have enough sense to avoid it. You, however, seem to use it be the bucketload.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 11, 2011, 02:56:53 pm

Goddammit, why isn't anyone saying anything?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 11, 2011, 02:57:33 pm

And Extend I guess

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 03:24:32 pm

(I can'   d

I stand by my vote,
Toaster is scum,
and so are you


D1:
Japa was primarily trying not to seem scummy at all, Until me and super went nooby,
Japa voted me as soon as I suggested that japa and toaster were scum,
Which I had thought it was toaster telling him to vote me...
But he may have been mildly panicking.
Then japa and toaster just padded the d1 off, just focusing on super and me.

D2: Toaster and japa didn't really need to do much since I already dug myself I nice hole...
so they kinda focused on tyberix, then I got lynched.

They night killed jim because he served his purpose of drawing suspicions to tyberix as the next one to be lynched...
And to eliminate an experianced town for the lyo situation...

Then I replaced painiac...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 04:08:48 pm

SaintDraze:  Your attack is heavily assumptive and flawed.

For example, let's assume I am scum.  Saying I would then not vote you because I know you're town is silly.  There would be six other people I knew that were town as well, including Super.  How does that prove anything?

Your last post is pretty much WIFOM.  You're putting down a plan of what we would have done if we were scum, without actually providing any evidence that either of us is scum.  Without that evidence, no one will listen to you.

[If you want to build a solid case, you need to provide links or quotes of your targets posts that demonstrate scummy behavior.  Take those posts and explain how each one is scummy, then summarize the case.  Put together, that is how you convince people.  Without anything to back it up, your argument holds no water.]


LNCP:  Don't defend me, thanks.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 11, 2011, 05:32:48 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 04:08:48 pm

LNCP:  Don't defend me, thanks.

Are you saying I can't use attacks as material for scumhunting?

See, this is something I should be taught.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Tyberix on March 11, 2011, 06:13:16 pm

Well what make be bit convinced that he could be not lying is that he get bit emotional and if he got this planned i  think even SD would think twice before posting something like that.

But that makes me only bit less suspicious of him,as toaster said Ottofar could as well be godfather and not a town.

SaintDraze You insist that Toaster and LNCP are scum. Why you vote Toaster over LNCP ?
lordnincompoop: Do you think SD cop claim is complete lie or he just can't do anything with information given to him ?
Toaster: He got the point though,you seemed bit easy on japa/LNCP mistakes in comparison to nearly the same errors made by someone else.Maybe i'm looking into too much detail but you said in notes about questions to him: "If he is town" specifically implying that he is! On D1 you pressed a bit,and left questioning him after it gone beyond easy questions. Your only real attack on him was D2 anti-lurk vote - easy to lift after he would post a bit. Why you were so forgiving for him ?
Ottofar: Some opinion on SD claim ?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 11, 2011, 06:18:10 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on March 11, 2011, 06:13:16 pm

lordnincompoop: Do you think SD cop claim is complete lie or he just can't do anything with information given to him ?

We can't do much with the info he's giving us, and we can't trust his cop claim at all.

From what I'm seeing, he's trying to push a lynch through using the cop claim only, expecting us to just blindly follow him. That is a very stupid way of going about things, not to mention suspicious.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 06:52:04 pm

I choose toaster because he is the brains of the two.
LNP has a slight chance(micro in size, It's ridiculously tiny this chance is.) of being a pawn in toasters nefarious scheme.

If he is scum, He probably voted to extend the day just to appear town, since it was obvious that it was going to be extended anyway.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 06:55:47 pm

!$#@ I forgot a part to add...

toaster,
Why do you think ottofar would be the godfather?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 11:19:04 pm

LNCP:

Quote from: lordnincompoop on March 11, 2011, 05:32:48 pm

Quote from: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 04:08:48 pm

LNCP:  Don't defend me, thanks.

Are you saying I can't use attacks as material for scumhunting?

Hmm... no, that's not the case.  I think I automatically said that without thinking it through.  I'm probably looking too hard for chainsaw defending here- your attacks are fine.  It's just a case of separating out attacking one person from defending another, which can be tricky.


Tyberix:  I was seeing if Japa would give the scummy response to some of my questions, but he repeatedly didn't.  That eventually gave me the impression he was town.  LNCP's arguments are well-reasoned and thought out, so I continue to think him town.


SaintDraze:

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 06:55:47 pm

!$#@ I forgot a part to add...

toaster,
Why do you think ottofar would be the godfather?

?

Quote from: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 10:59:14 am

So why didn't you claim that in your first post?

In any case, you should really start trying to figure out which of those two is a Godfather, because you clearly hit one.

I never said that.  Do you know something I don't, hmm?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 12, 2011, 04:11:02 am

Ty, I'm still waiting for you to clarify and follow up on your questions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 12, 2011, 02:44:35 pm

Why is nobody saying anything?

Webadict, I'd like more activity from you as a mod. Some sort of response of a vote count. Anything.

SaintDraze, do you have any concrete reason for voting Toaster? Do you have anything to support yourself besides the cop claim (which is of dubious usefulness)? Can you elaborate on this "theory" of yours?

Toaster, what do you think of our current situation? What can we do to minimise the rampant lurking?

Tyberix, now that SaintDraze has replaced Painiac and your sole reason for voting him was inactivity, who are your scumpicks now? Why have you posted so little since then?

Ottofar, you have said nothing this day besides two-three posts at the beginning of the day. Who are your scumpicks? Why are you lurking, and why haven't you voted?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Ottofar on March 12, 2011, 03:24:19 pm

I was supposing I'd get a post in today. It didn't happen due to a flat tire.

I should be voting  PainDraze.
I think his claim is untrue.

Reasons and stuff  tomorrow, feeling  kinda dizzy.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 12, 2011, 03:55:17 pm

Toaster, is Ottofar usually this lurky?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 12, 2011, 10:19:24 pm

LNCP:  It's the weekend.  It's usually quieter.

As far as the situation, we had a great flare of activity for a bit there.  I think we're waiting for Tyberix and SaintDraze now.

On Ottofar: Sadly, yes he is.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Ottofar on March 13, 2011, 08:33:14 am

Yeah. But I'm in four games currently, and when two-three of them are over, I'm gong to try to be not-so-lurky. Or something. Anyways yeah. I think the Cop claim was false, since he was the top pick of me and Tyberix, and second pick for the rest. He did it as the last ditch effort to save himself, and probably got the idea from Tyberix' post #405.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 13, 2011, 10:36:25 am

Since Web seems to have disappeared, here's a votecount:

Vote Count
------------------------
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop -
Tyberix - lordnincompoop, Toaster
SaintDraze - Ottofar, Tyberix
Toaster - SaintDraze

Not Voting -

Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.

What the hell, Tyberix? You've disappeared and done no investigation or scumhunting today. Your vote is on Painiac for lurking, not St.D. If you still think he's scum, at least come out and give us your reasoning. Why aren't you investigating other people either?

Your only recent post is about the cop claim. Your lack of action and investigation is very suspicious; this is LYLO and you're lurking far too much.

Quote from: Ottofar on March 13, 2011, 08:33:14 am

Yeah. But I'm in four games currently, and when two-three of them are over, I'm gong to try to be not-so-lurky. Or something. Anyways yeah. I think the Cop claim was false, since he was the top pick of me and Tyberix, and second pick for the rest. He did it as the last ditch effort to save himself, and probably got the idea from Tyberix' post #405.

Arrite, fair enough.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Tyberix on March 13, 2011, 12:49:50 pm

Sorry for lack of posting.
LNCP Why you insist that my SD vote was based only on his inactivity ? Also what's your opinion on toaster play so far ?
Toaster So if someone play is consistent,except only minor slips you would let them away ? That's looks like ignoring scum buddy errors.
SaintDraze What's your opinion on current vote distribution ? Why

Well at this point it all comes to one question in my opinion : Do SD claim is false or not ?
Of course if he's lying he's obviously scum,but if his claim is true it really don't change anything except clearing him.
Problem lies in the question why would he lie about this claim if he were scum. He could as well vote me to get to lynch situation,he wasn't in dire need of defense at the moment he claimed. If that wouldn't be enough he could back it up with cop claim calling me scum and other townie to help them decide to vote me. But why would he try headless attacks like that ?  Still if he can't prove that he wants scum lynched vote stands. Right now i'm leaning to the option that the claim is false but he must give something more about his reasoning.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 13, 2011, 12:55:58 pm

Sorry guys. I'm at home for a weekend, and have no internet. I tried posting before leaving, but it seemed to have failed. Basically, Day's extended to Tuesday. I'll get a VC up when I'm back, in about four hours. Possibly five.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 13, 2011, 04:36:45 pm

I had a small hunch when I got lynched.

since there was a replacement needed I thought I would replace in to help.

That was when I found out that painiac is cop.
Obviously I got Very excited when I saw his inspects.

The current vote distribution is shit.

That's right tyberix, I wouldn't have any reason to call a fake roleclaim as scum, since I could just put my vote on you with toaster and LNP,(who If not scum he would just be following the IC's reasoning along with some of his own...)since you got enough against you to vote for already from toasters and LNP's reasonings.

Toaster And LNP
Lets see your reasonings for voting Tyberix again please.

Okay reading a few pages from when LNP replaced in I noticed that he had you in mind as a target already, didn't he tyberix?

And wait...
They were both after you because Of non-commitment...
Wasn't Japa non-committal on D1? I was too, but japa and toaster didn't really care about it for some reason...

They were kinda twisting your words aren't they?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 13, 2011, 06:10:24 pm

Goddamn deadlocks. Somebody needs to switch votes, it seems.

Quote from: Tyberix on March 13, 2011, 12:49:50 pm

LNCP Why you insist that my SD vote was based only on his inactivity ? Also what's your opinion on toaster play so far ?

Because you've said nearly nothing after the vote on Painiac. You haven't provided much reasoning, nor have you made any kind of attack against him. The only post you have is a comment of his claim.

Goddammit, I missed one post.

The thing is, your reasons for voting Painiac was inactivity, and that argument is now invalid for St. D (seeing as you said "All my previous reasons are still standing"). What reasons do you have for voting him?

Toaster, though remaining calm, isn't posting as much as I'd like him to or doing much investigation on other people. I don't have many reasons to suspect him at this point, though.

Quote from: Tyberix on March 13, 2011, 12:49:50 pm

Well at this point it all comes to one question in my opinion : Do SD claim is false or not ?
Of course if he's lying he's obviously scum,but if his claim is true it really don't change anything except clearing him.
Problem lies in the question why would he lie about this claim if he were scum. He could as well vote me to get to lynch situation,he wasn't in dire need of defense at the moment he claimed. If that wouldn't be enough he could back it up with cop claim calling me scum and other townie to help them decide to vote me. But why would he try headless attacks like that ?  Still if he can't prove that he wants scum lynched vote stands. Right now i'm leaning to the option that the claim is false but he must give something more about his reasoning.

What I think is most likely is that he tried to use a falseclaim to strengthen his authority, and proceeded to attack some random town without any proper arguments.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 13, 2011, 04:36:45 pm

I had a small hunch when I got lynched.

since there was a replacement needed I thought I would replace in to help.

That was when I found out that painiac is cop.
Obviously I got Very excited when I saw his inspects.

The current vote distribution is shit.

That's right tyberix, I wouldn't have any reason to call a fake roleclaim as scum, since I could just put my vote on you with toaster and LNP,(who If not scum he would just be following the IC's reasoning along with some of his own...)since you got enough against you to vote for already from toasters and LNP's reasonings.

Toaster And LNP
Lets see your reasonings for voting Tyberix again please.

Okay reading a few pages from when LNP replaced in I noticed that he had you in mind as a target already, didn't he tyberix?

And wait...
They were both after you because Of non-commitment...
Wasn't Japa non-committal on D1? I was too, but japa and toaster didn't really care about it for some reason...

They were kinda twisting your words aren't they?

"A small hunch"? Is that all you have to go on?

Blatant buddying, it seems. You're defending Tyberix and trying to woo him with your words. Your scumminess becomes ever more clear.

My reasoning is outlined here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2043420#msg2043420), and I don't think I need to rewrite it.

Not just passivity. My points are outlined above.

Japa was non-committal, but there were more blatantly scummy people around. I did pay attention to it. He wouldn't be accusing himself of passivity, obviously.

Twisting his words how, SaintDraze?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 13, 2011, 06:39:45 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop -
Tyberix - lordnincompoop, Toaster
SaintDraze - Ottofar, Tyberix
Toaster - SaintDraze

Not Voting -

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 14, 2011, 09:02:24 am

Ottofar:  That's not really our fault.  Take the time to give your opinion on everyone, and back it up with references- especially the person you're voting.


Tyberix:  This is a beginner's game.  I'm going to be more lenient on small slips.  When they are validated by genuine disinterest in the game as a whole (not as genuine disinterest in finding scum because you are scum), I'm going to ignore him.  Japa's play is pretty much null now, so I need to scan LNCP on his D2/3 play.

Do you want me to convict LNCP because the person he replaced didn't like the game?


SaintDraze:  You're still not providing anything to back up your case, so let me reiterate:

Quote from: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 04:08:48 pm

[If you want to build a solid case, you need to provide links or quotes of your targets posts that demonstrate scummy behavior.  Take those posts and explain how each one is scummy, then summarize the case.  Put together, that is how you convince people.  Without anything to back it up, your argument holds no water.]

[This applies to everyone, not just him.]

You also didn't answer this:

Quote from: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 11:19:04 pm

SaintDraze:

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 11, 2011, 06:55:47 pm

!$#@ I forgot a part to add...

toaster,
Why do you think ottofar would be the godfather?

?

Quote from: Toaster on March 11, 2011, 10:59:14 am

So why didn't you claim that in your first post?

In any case, you should really start trying to figure out which of those two is a Godfather, because you clearly hit one.

I never said that.  Do you know something I don't, hmm?

As for what you wanted from me, the bulk of it is here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77394.msg2055670#msg2055670).  Strike out the D1 part- it was later proven wrong.

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 13, 2011, 04:36:45 pm

Toaster And LNP
Lets see your reasonings for voting Tyberix again please.

Okay reading a few pages from when LNP replaced in I noticed that he had you in mind as a target already, didn't he tyberix?

And wait...
They were both after you because Of non-commitment...
Wasn't Japa non-committal on D1? I was too, but japa and toaster didn't really care about it for some reason...

They were kinda twisting your words aren't they?

This is deflection.  It's scummy because you're trying to move attention away from Tyberix onto me and Japa/LNCP without addressing the original point.


LNCP:  Sorry- busy weekend.




To everyone:

Let me re-reiterate the importance of backing up your attacks.  If you say "PlayerA is scum!  It's obvious!" you don't really have a case.  If you say "PlayerA is scum!  Here are posts A B and C where he did scummy thing X Y and Z" with quotes and links, people will listen to you.  This applies double at LYLO, and triple to the person you're voting at LYLO.

If I'm missing anything, let me know.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Tyberix on March 14, 2011, 11:34:46 am

Damn it SaintDraze! Stop buddying me ! If you want to convince me you should do it by logic not something like that !
I'm going to re-vote you SaintDraze just for emphasis how bad that was. Give me reasons !

Say what's your opinion on everybody without backing it up with "insidious plan of global domination hidden from our sight".

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 14, 2011, 11:16:01 pm

...


I have tried to motivate you to post.  I left questions for people to respond to, and my post was ignored.  If you want to hand this game to the scum, go ahead and continue not to post.  This goes double for those who logged in today and didn't post in the thread (you know who you are.)


If you want to do this, get on and post.  Extend if you need more time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 15, 2011, 06:30:52 am

I was alternating between asleep, busy and browsing from phone yesterday, so sorry about that.

I think I said this before, but just to be clear: Extend.

I'm frustrated, and quite frankly a little angry at how St. D refuses to answer or respond to my posts, and refuses to back his posts at all.

Tyberix now has little to no content in his posts and does only token investigation. He very rarely, if at all responds to posts directed at him. He still hasn't given me his reasons for voting St. D, and to me it just looks like he's voting to fake emotions and look town.

I'm not sure which one is scummier, at this point.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 15, 2011, 06:59:51 am

Vote Count
------------------------
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop -
Tyberix - lordnincompoop, Toaster
SaintDraze - Ottofar, Tyberix
Toaster - SaintDraze

Not Voting -

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

It's not really a good idea to tie the votes, and it's never a good idea to NOT POST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 15, 2011, 07:55:40 am

Nah tyberix has enough reason to vote me now, I have no reason for my actions because I can't find the post that tipped me off to toasters nefarious intentions...

Or Japas either...

I was also a large source of disruption for the past 2 days...

I know that toaster and japa are scum but I can't find the reasoning anywhee :(

Since this is a beginners game I am going to wait until this is over and ask toaster and jim what I could have done....


Theres no real point for me to scum hunt since I know that toaster and LNP(slightest chance that he may not be scum) are the ones who Ooged in the oogeroooog

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 15, 2011, 09:38:01 am

Ask yourself this, then:  If you can't find reasoning to back up your suspicions, are your suspicions actually right?

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 15, 2011, 07:55:40 am

Theres no real point for me to scum hunt since I know that toaster and LNP(slightest chance that he may not be scum) are the ones who Ooged in the oogeroooog

This is fundamentally wrong.  You ALWAYS need to hunt.  Never quit, never stop, never let up.  This is a game with the possibilities of a Godfather- you can't explicitly trust your inspections.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Toaster on March 15, 2011, 09:41:26 am

Also, there's no need to wait- I will tell (and have told) you what to do- provide evidence to back up your attacks.  If you can't find the evidence, reassess and determine if you're really on the right track.  It's easy to convince yourself of something and get tunnel vision, losing sight of everything else in the game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 15, 2011, 12:58:30 pm

You're running out of time, town. A no lynch results in a town loss, you know.

Get your shit together.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 15, 2011, 07:58:35 pm

Vote Count
------------------------
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop -
Tyberix - lordnincompoop, Toaster
SaintDraze - Ottofar, Tyberix
Toaster - SaintDraze

Not Voting -

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

It has been almost 48 hours since Tyberix, lordnincompoop, and Ottofar posted. Not only that, but the lack of activity is just disappointing. I'm not planning on extending the Day for you guys, so I'd suggest using the last HOUR you have to get your crap together or lose.

Interested?!?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 15, 2011, 08:07:35 pm

Welp, I got my vote but I can't explain my reasoning...
tyberix and ottofar....

Look deep into your hearts...
Now If they aren't telling you to listen to me,
Disregard it completly, It's just toaster's vile trickery!

Why do they still have their votes on you tyberix?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 15, 2011, 08:44:49 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 15, 2011, 08:07:35 pm

Welp, I got my vote but I can't explain my reasoning...

Why aren't you listening to Toaster? You should be listening to Toaster.

If he says you need reasons for your vote, then you need motherfucking reasons for your motherfucking vote.

Saying you can't explain your reasons is tantamount to not having any. If you can't express them, you shouldn't be voting on them.

I don't want to come back from the dead to smack some sense in you but apparently the heavy hand of the undead is necessary to get you to listen to what people are telling you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: SaintDraze on March 15, 2011, 08:58:10 pm

4 minutes till day end...

I will be damned if I let this end on a no lynch

Tyberix

He's doing jack shit...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Day 3: Jim Groovester Is Out Of Sync
Post by: webadict on March 15, 2011, 09:54:10 pm

"Ooga ooga," exclaimed no one, since SaintDraze and Toaster are clearly the only ones playing. They looked at each other, and back at the spot where Tyberix, lordnincompoop, and Ottofar were sitting mere seconds ago.

"Ooga?" asked SaintDraze.

"Ooga," replied Toaster, shrugging his shoulders.

SaintDraze, dawning his paper-mâché sheriff's badge, reading "Ooga" in gold printing, picks up his pointy-stick and heads for the now-open opening.

Toaster, though clearly evil, what with his mischievous smile and blood-covered pointy-stick, exits with him. He'd be under arrest if SaintDraze were a real cop.

"Ooga ooga," cried the relieved onlookers. They had been trapped in there for a whole 30 cavedays! Which translates out to about 20 minutes.

Jim Groovester's voice echoed from the cavern, hate-filled and poisonous. "OOGA OOGA OOGA!!!" He was right to be mad. There were several, several, several reasons to be mad.

And the two lived happily ever after until Toaster murdered him in his sleep about 25 minutes later.

Vote Count
------------------------
Ottofar -
lordnincompoop -
Tyberix - lordnincompoop, Toaster, SaintDraze,
SaintDraze - Ottofar, Tyberix,
Toaster -

Not Voting -

Day Ends Tuesday 9 PM Central.

Tyberix has been lynched!

Tyberix was a Townie (town).

Game Over! Toaster wins. Ottofar doesn't, since he stopped playing.

And that's the game, guys. Not only did one person seemingly vanish into thin air, the remaining players simply stopped playing at the end. Not good. Not. Good.

SaintDraze WOULD get credit for playing, but he fakeclaimed Cop as a Townie, which ironically DID have him have the correct lynch. Other than that, he was active, but lacking in actually persuasion.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Zrk2 on March 15, 2011, 09:57:03 pm

Shit eh?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Rose on March 15, 2011, 10:34:21 pm

eh, oh well.

this sucks.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Book on March 15, 2011, 10:36:29 pm

Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed. This was the worst LYLO I've seen in ages. There's no comfort, no recourse, no glory in a win by either town or scum in a game "won" by non-participation. As far as I'm concerned, everyone of the last five lost by default. It sucks to see a game end like this. Please, newbies, take this as the lesson learned from BMXXI: LURKING KILLS GAMES. If you sign up for a game, it's minimal decency and courtesy to play the fucking game you signed up to play. If you don't, you're ruining the experience not just for you, but for everyone else involved. Shame on you, a pox on your houses, and your meta not-withstanding I'll be wary of playing with you in the future (especially Ottofar, Tyberix & Poop, who didn't deign to post; STD may be clueless, but at least he's around. Ottofar: double shame on you: you should know better than to let a game die whether you're scum or not). Some of those alive before LYLO weren't much better either. You know who you are (and so does wuba).


That being said, I at least take a small amount of glee in having pegged Toaster as scum earlier. I wasn't sure if his partner was Ottofar or Tyberix, but by the end it mattered little. Both played abysmally and are not worth of being victors regardless of alignment. Toaster of course played with one hand tied behind his back, even as scum trying to help townies peg him as scum; but they didn't even try, but still, I can't help but like the fact that I knew...

I sincerely hope this does not set a trend among BM games. Sure, some have been active, some have been lurky, but this was shameful beyond words, and I hope it is remembered by players, mods, and the attendance board, when these indecent infractors try to join more games.


Final thought: Wuba: I loved the flavour. The OOGA OOGA cavemen, the fake sheriff badge, the pointy sticks, the adventure in the loincloth, they were all great, and were as pearls cast before the lurking swine. The Game was Great. But YOU PEOPLE WERE NOT WORTHY.

^{Fucking newbies nowadays. Don't know respect for the old ways. Someone get them off my fucking lawn and SHOOT them!}

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Rose on March 15, 2011, 10:54:08 pm

Yes, I know. I am ashamed.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Ottofar on March 16, 2011, 12:26:47 am

Yeah. Sorry.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 16, 2011, 12:34:46 am

First things first, everything Toaster said was still 100% true, even though he was scum. Everything he did was very much exemplary of good town play. It is also exemplary of good scum play. Perfect scum play and perfect town play are completely indistinguishable from each other. So no matter whether you were town or scum you can still learn a very great deal by looking at Toaster's play.

I hope everyone sees the importance of activity. If you don't participate, games are going to die, and that sucks for everybody.

Nobody should be beating themselves up for not recognizing that Toaster and Ottofar were scum. Recognizing those scum tells will come with experience. The things I want you to take away from this game are good scumhunting habits, like participating frequently, being aggressive, and asking questions frequently. Everything else will come with time.

That's not to say there aren't areas of improvement already. I was perfectly satisfied with this game up until lylo, where suddenly everyone was quiet. Don't do that again. I hope that's a lesson learned, and let's just move on.

If you've got questions, ask them, and I'll do my best to answer them.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Toaster on March 16, 2011, 08:04:21 am

What happened?

D1 and D2 were fine.  D3 started badly (and I'll take some of the blame for that- I didn't do a very good job at first of trying to get you to not lurk), had a good spurt of activity for half a day, then sputtered and died.

SaintDraze, I kept mentioning the Godfather because I knew you were lying!  Not only was Ottofar scum, but we had blocked you N2.  Fake claiming an investigative role as town is... well, I guess it'd be a possible claim if you wanted to trick scum into NKing you, but trying to build a case out of it is not going to work.  You were right about me for the wrong reasons- I would have voted Super D1 as town too.

LNCP:  You're a good hunter, just don't lurk like that!

Ottofar:  Well, you're at least consistent in your lurking...

Tyberix:  You were close to the right answer (that my case on you sucked badly) but you didn't push it enough.  I think you've about got this if you don't lurk away at the end when things aren't going your way.

Jim:  Sorry for killing you, but you know how it goes.  We intentionally let you live N1 so you could help more (among other reasons.)  You did a great job otherwise (better than me).

Web:  Thanks for hosting!  Sorry that I wasn't as good as I should have been.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Tyberix on March 16, 2011, 10:08:43 am

:( I feel like a jerk. I seriously need to punch myself into face. Sorry for that. I swear, you will never see this kind of lurking from me again.(right after this post i go to other games threads :|)

Never have guessed that ottofar was the second, my last suspects were toaster and saint draze pulling some kind of wacky gambit on us. That's at least part true :| I was going even to say that toaster was pointing us into good way with his last post but if we i just acted then we could have pushed it through, i feel even worse about that... On the other hand never would have guessed somebody have the guts or be insane enough to make fakeclaim on LYLO. I never put it into my calculations, i got lesson for another time :/ Anyway i should have tried pushing someone else than SD since i'm under impression he always acts the same regardless of his reasons. LNCP & toaster you're impossible to read point to you, after you attacked me i was seriously thinking i'm bad enough to town vote for me.

Great flavor but well it end bad because of us :( Sorry again.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Toaster on March 16, 2011, 10:31:01 am

Consider it a lesson learned, keep up participation in other threads, and you'll do fine.

Don't blindly trust cop claims- if you think the person is scum, keep pressuring them!  Gauge the scumminess of the claimant and the people they've reported results on.  If the results are completely opposite your views, you don't have to trust them.  On the other hand, townie fake claiming cop is so much of an edge case that it's not really something to consider (*scum* doing it is fair game, though.)

Study the cases of those attacking you- if you had gone after my case any harder it would have crumbled, leaving me scrambling for someone else to attack.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 16, 2011, 01:49:12 pm

Quote from: Tyberix on March 16, 2011, 10:08:43 am

Great flavor but well it end bad because of us :( Sorry again.

Eh, for a Beginner's game you did fine. This extends to everybody who stuck through it to the end.

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much for a beginner's effort.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: SaintDraze on March 16, 2011, 03:26:30 pm

wait...
You mean LNP wasn't scum?

Seriously?
That surpirises me...

It ended bad because of the beginning with me and supercharazad....
I know that you knew that I was lieing...

I should Have known that Ottofar was the other scum XP

and You WERE TIPPING US OFF! HAHahahaha!

It felt like It you were doing it...

But It also felt like japa and LNP were your lapdogs...
toaster can you please point out your tip offs, if it isn't to much to reveal your Malicious secrets?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Toaster on March 16, 2011, 03:30:39 pm

Tipoffs of what?  I thought Japa was stuck early on in a false either/or mentality, but prodding it proved otherwise.  As far as the cop thing, I was yelling Godfather to defend myself, to get you to question others, and (most importantly) get you to back up your case with reasoning.  As Jim and I said, if you can't back up your case, you don't really have one.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Tyberix on March 16, 2011, 03:37:33 pm

You were soooo close to convincing me SD,that if you have just posted few toaster quotes with even something basic i would believe you checked game history and it was your conclusion about it. You  seemed like it was emotional outburst, and i cannot take it seriously.And i agree ottofar was out of the picture for me too :|.But that's funny trick with this claim i must admit :P

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: SaintDraze on March 16, 2011, 03:44:57 pm

Yep, I had Jack shit reasoning...
I was hoping Tyberix would have gone on the offensive against your reasonings after hearing my inspect info...

And when LNP attacked me It looked like a conformation of him being scum.


Web:
It was a very nice flavor, but I really didn't like the fact that IC could vote and play :(

I can't Quote Worth a shit! I knew I was close to persuading you! Hahaha
It was my bad entirely! D:

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 16, 2011, 03:52:54 pm

You shouldn't count on anybody to do your scumhunting for you. Only you can do that.

And never fake claim a role you don't have as town ever again. Just, don't.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: webadict on March 16, 2011, 04:52:49 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 16, 2011, 03:44:57 pm

Web:
It was a very nice flavor, but I really didn't like the fact that IC could vote and play :(

Noted. We were having a discussion about Beginner Mafia and ICing. The problem is that ICs tend to be distracted away from games if they aren't involved.

I know it's probably tough on you newbies, but it's also a step into more advanced Mafia. What part did you not like the most, or how could it have been better otherwise?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Vector on March 16, 2011, 04:55:56 pm

Posting to follow discussion on ICs.

I'm not sure about my feelings on it now myself.  We might need to do a few more test runs before we have more solid data, or a lot more information on personal experiences.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: Rose on March 16, 2011, 04:57:53 pm

I just with I had been able to participate properly.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXI - Game Over: Be Ashamed. Be Very Ashamed.
Post by: lordnincompoop on March 16, 2011, 05:06:31 pm

I realise I was lurking pretty heavily at LYLO, and I do think I could have done better. This was rather a disappointment compared to the last one.

Quote from: webadict on March 16, 2011, 04:52:49 pm

Quote from: SaintDraze on March 16, 2011, 03:44:57 pm

Web:
It was a very nice flavor, but I really didn't like the fact that IC could vote and play :(

Noted. We were having a discussion about Beginner Mafia and ICing. The problem is that ICs tend to be distracted away from games if they aren't involved.

I know it's probably tough on you newbies, but it's also a step into more advanced Mafia. What part did you not like the most, or how could it have been better otherwise?

The thing is, I think I'm more okay with attacking and being around a whole bunch of experienced players than I am with playing ICs. It's mainly because I still see them as my mentor, and I kinda slip into this deferential mindset.
I found it difficult to build a case on any of them, because I didn't want to lynch the teachers (who were definitely the most valuable players). If they were to be treated more like normal players, or had the opportunity to carry on teaching regardless of what had happened, maybe I'd have been more willing in my advances against them.