Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Creative Projects => Topic started by: Willfor on March 12, 2011, 08:29:59 pm

Title: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: Willfor on March 12, 2011, 08:29:59 pm
CURRENT RELEASE: 0.1.0 (.NET) (http://www.mediafire.com/?zdnx161c9qcnaci) (March 18th) / -Unreleased- (Mono)

PAST RELEASES: -none-

Current Vlog: March 23rd, version 0.1.1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhoyZ7wvjhk)
Older Vlogs:
* March 12th, version 0.0.5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95CCkN1TP_g)

Spoiler: Original post (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Willfor on March 13, 2011, 05:08:42 pm
Be careful not to be late with your freshly gained gold.

Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)

The keeper of the fort loses patience at lunch time on the last day. The bounty goes out, and whether you can pay or not no longer matters.

Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)

The hunters will find you either by the trail you leave, or by dumb luck in the case that your trail has gone completely cold.

Spoiler: another image! (click to show/hide)

But nothing will happen because I've yet to make the combat system, or the system that lets you surrender to them to be taken back alive. Being taken back alive might not give you any better a fate, depending on just how pissed off the commander is at the time.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: squeakyReaper on March 13, 2011, 07:32:44 pm
Yes.  I absolutely loved Jagged Tooth dungeon, so seeing more from you is nice; even though they're completely unrelated.  I have to ask a silly question however...  can I get a transcript of your video?  Your voice is far too silent for me to hear, and I wasn't even able to get a whisper.  I didn't even realize you were talking until I heard a murmur out the corner of my hearing range.  It's likely my speakers, heh.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Willfor on March 13, 2011, 10:31:10 pm
Quote from: Transcript
Hello, this is Willfor from the Bay12 forums, and I'll be taking you on a runthrough of my new game, East Marches. I have a link to the basic inspiration of it, and there will be more than one character, but your main character is someone who has been sentanced to life away from the empire he grew up in due to some unfortunate circumstances.

So you'll be going to treasure sites, to support your enjoyment of living at the only safe place in the world -- I am the 'P' (circles 'P' on screen with mouse) -- And there are time stamps -- You have to get 5 gold pieces, or five gold's worth, by noon of the second day of the 31st week, and you're on the 30th. It will be more difficult to get stuff later, but since this is a test, not really right now.

As you can see, time passes as you try to move. Time passes faster on the big map, slower on the smaller map, and gold is remarkably easy to get at the moment. Also I need to fix a bug in here, but for the most part my gold is fairly good. Anyway, now that I have a good amount of gold I will leave the site, it disappears because it's pretty much used up.

Then we go -- oh, as you can see, the day turns to night. And libtcod -- I don't know how you would actually say that in whatever (refering to my inability to say it correctly in real life) -- but, uh, it's a very good console, I love being able to use a full range of color.

Let's go to the site. This is me -- this is the person I want to talk to -- click on the person I want to talk to, and give him the gold. He doesn't really like you. I don't know if you picked up on that.

And that's pretty much everything I have in the game at the moment. It's not pretty, it's not complete in any way shape or form, but I figure this beats making a giant post about it. So it will be a small post and this video.

I should have gone with a silent video plus little text notes on the screen. I am not the best speaker in the world. It's usually why I prefer writing as a communication medium.

If I try video blogging again I'll do the sound separate from the video so I can fix the EQ settings and bring the sound into better quality.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: squeakyReaper on March 13, 2011, 10:36:52 pm
Seems like I forced a contradiction, making you post something large.  Heh.  I guess it would be larger without the video, as we have a visual representation.

So!  It would seem the game is all about living under the thumb of a money grubber.  Lovely.  I skimmed the West Marches post, and the jist that I got from it is:  Impromptu adventure, few and random goals, dangerous land with only a few frontier settlements.  Sounds right?  Is your goal to take this, and throw in an additional danger in that you must pay off debts constantly?  Nature wants you dead, society wants you dead, government wants you dead...  and you're not quite sure which of the three is more dangerous.  Sounds thrilling!
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Willfor on March 13, 2011, 10:49:19 pm
Pretty much. It's a two tier slavery of a sort. Criminals are assigned to Eastfort as a way to pay back society because it was the site of a giant conflagration of magical warfare, and no one wants to go through the ravaged landscape to recover the important things. They owe a weekly payment to the commander of the fort, and missing payments can result in anything from missing limbs to hanging. It's best not to miss payments.

Criminals who were not sent to Eastfort for murder or rape can buy their way into the second tier for a year's worth of weekly payments. The second tier only owes the fort once a month, and instead of death you're faced with legal sanctions if you can't pay. Survive for two years in the second tier, and you're free to leave any time you want to.

There are crazy people who volunteer for second tier service. There are people who "volunteered" for second tier service, and would rather take a chance at surviving the wilds than being tortured to death for desertion.

It's a fun place!

People who survive the experience tend to be rich enough to reintegrate with society.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Thendash on March 13, 2011, 11:01:11 pm
Is it possible to grow strong enough to kill the commander and become free that way?
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Willfor on March 13, 2011, 11:08:13 pm
Killing any individual person is probably going to be easy enough. While the commander has had a good amount of time to purchase some of the better magical items that have come from the fort's involvement, a good surprise would probably take him out. You might have problems leaving the fort alive afterward though.

I suppose that's part of the challenge. :)

Still don't have combat up and running, and that's likely going to take longer than getting the hunting AI up and running.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: squeakyReaper on March 13, 2011, 11:10:25 pm
Hmm, the above poster brings out an interesting question.  Is the goal of the game to escape the Eastfort you're put in?  I can see a few spin-offs of the goal.  First of all is to get enough money, surviving long enough, to escape.  This is progressively difficult, as you have to go further and further away from your settlements each time to get new gear and sellables.

Second is killing your captain.  This is feigning loyalty long enough and getting the gear to do so.  Very very dangerous, and could result in horrible disaster...  but a Spartacus style revolt could be possible.  Rise up criminals, and take your birthright!  Just...  less honorable, since you are in essence a terrible criminal.

Third is...  becoming a soldier.  You said there's magical warfare.  What if you could join a squad, and be part of that?  It's not retrieval of retired magical artifacts, but it is serving your country in a sense.  Disposable soldiers thrown at the enemy.

Fourth thing I can think of is once you've served your two years, you've "proven" yourself to a degree that they MAKE you a soldier, as said above.  Or you become a professional "fetcher".  Perhaps willingly, with promise of more money.  Perhaps because you have only known this life for so long.  Perhaps the court angles your case so that you're not really being let out...  they happened to "Discover" a crime that you "Committed", making you stay longer.

Note that these are end game style things.  Perhaps they could be an epilogue?  When the game is over, after your two years, the game assesses your priorities and how you went about them, and it says whether you succeed or fail at these.  Or perhaps it does affect the story, and you can play them out.  I dunno, you're the boss!
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Willfor on March 13, 2011, 11:26:11 pm
This is a bit of the appeal of working on something like this. I've setup the game's meta-structure as a set of plot lines. For instance, the only reason the game itself gives you a week to get the money is because it's tracking your progress in that plotline, and when it sees you violate it, it takes actions of its own.

Once I have the basics in, I can start work on the different circumstances. The goal is to have it so that the choices you make in friendships, and how you try to escape -- or not escape -- determines how the game turns out. The main goal is to stay alive, and beyond that, I hope to have a good deal of "victory conditions." The game won't really end until you either die, or leave the playing field to go back west.

One other thing that I haven't really focused on is the characters who will either be helping or hindering you. They're going to have their own plotlines, and they are going to be as much the centre of their own universes as you are in yours. It's going to mean a lot of work for me, but I plan to have them be additional things you can get involved with that can make your experience either easier or harder.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Enzo on March 14, 2011, 01:18:41 am
I should have gone with a silent video plus little text notes on the screen. I am not the best speaker in the world. It's usually why I prefer writing as a communication medium.

Lies! Your voice is beautiful, like an angels soothing lullaby. Mic volume was pretty low, though.

Also this looks promising, I'll be keeping tabs on it.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Willfor on March 14, 2011, 11:41:54 pm
Code: [Select]
public Knowledge getKnowledgeFromGoogle(string theX, string fromY)
{
    return Google(String.Format("{0} for {1}", theX, fromY));
}

public Knowledge whatWillforSpentFiveHoursTryingToLearnToday()
{
    return getKnowledgeFromGoogle("C# events", "dummies");
}
I think I've finally wrapped my head around the concepts I need to know to make everything in the program (regarding combat) work how I want it to. The only thing left is implementation.

Also, I made speed improvements to the game. It may seem a little funny to do this before people complain about it, but if you saw during the video how slowly time moved? Now it doesn't run through as many turns to go the same amount of time when you're on the overworld map, and thusly moving is faster.

My current ~plan~ is to get some sort of functional combat in a primitive form, make randomly moving wolf packs that can follow trails (mostly copy/pasting bounty hunter code since they can already do this), do a little bit of cleaning up, and then release a tech demo. Probably* three days from now I'll have a release. It's not three days of coding, but there are circumstances that will prevent me from my usual amount of free time.

*I should probably use "soon" instead of a firm date, but giving myself a deadline to have something to show will help me work towards an actual goal instead of randomly puttering around in the code adding whatever strikes my fancy. Might be longer than three days, but I am working toward that for the moment. Also, the first version is unlikely to work on anyone else's computer, which will be fun to try to figure out. And I mean fun in only the most Dwarf Fortress way.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Thendash on March 14, 2011, 11:46:14 pm
I will volunteer to help test. I also need to learn C#, it looks a lot like Java but seems like a better language to make games with.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Max White on March 14, 2011, 11:52:48 pm
Off topic: Dead epic voice Willfor!

Ok, now to finish watching the clip.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Willfor on March 17, 2011, 07:03:52 pm
Still planning to release sometime in the next few hours. My code and I are currently in the midst of a disagreement of whether or not it should work like I want it to. It's taken the position that functioning correctly would be an inadequate state of affairs, and I am attempting to dropkick it into submission. As of this post, I have to completely rewrite a portion of my combat framework because I made a very dumb mistake that will involve going through the entire method chain to fix it.

As an aside, I've figured out how to build in Mono. Once I find out if the regular version actually works on any other computer than mine, I should be able to offer a Mono version for those of you who don't run Windows. You zany people, you. The only problem being that I am even less certain the Mono version will work than the .NET, so the holding of breath should not be your first tactical option.

To do:

- Fix major combat framework error.
- Make a placeholder combat option
- Copy/paste enough code to have functional wolves
- Release 0.1.0
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: squeakyReaper on March 17, 2011, 09:41:48 pm
- Release 0.1.0

Awesome.  Of course, with the combat being "placeholder" as you say, I can see 0.1.0 being Pacman.  You avoid ghosts (Wolves) and picking up pellets (Money) until you can find a power pellet (Weapons, perhaps?), but otherwise it's just trying to collect money 'til death do you part with your wallet.  Fun times.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Currently Unreleased]
Post by: Willfor on March 17, 2011, 11:56:46 pm
Release 0.1.0 (http://www.mediafire.com/?zdnx161c9qcnaci)

Requires the .NET 2.0 runtimes. I've included a manual for the sake of pointing out which buttons do what. Unfortunately, I forgot to include 'z', which passes time if you are on the overworld map.

At this point, I just want to know if people get crashes on trying to start it up. That is my primary concern. Any other feedback is, of course, welcome.

--

Combat is so placeholder at the moment that getting touched by any foe will give you a game over. This is not because it instantly kills the game, it is because your torso exploded. There's a framework there now for a more complicated combat system, but coding that will be a much bigger job than I can do in a day. Or even a few days.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: Willfor on March 18, 2011, 11:33:31 am
Bugfixes for 0.1.1:

* Rewrote of portions of the display code to allow better interaction with the screen. Took out some artifact pieces of code that were slowing down response times in Site movement. Changed some things so that when you come out of the one conversation in the game that has been implemented, it won't freeze movement control for about two seconds afterward.

tl;dr: Mouse support will improve soon.

Still waiting on crash/success reports from just about anyone.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: squeakyReaper on March 18, 2011, 11:47:43 am
I can't tell if the game is meant to be that slow, or if it is my laptop being a POS again.  Either one is equally viable, but it takes quite a bit of time between button presses to get anywhere.  At least it doesn't queue them up and press them all post-lag, I hate it when some games do that.

I failed to pay after gathering 40$.  I'm guessing it's impossible to pay at the moment?  At any rate, my torso apparently exploded after colliding with a bounty hunter.  Good show.  No crashes quite yet.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: Willfor on March 18, 2011, 12:08:34 pm
That issue is sort-of fixed for 0.1.1. If your delay is due to the clock itself moving, then the fix I've done will only work marginally. I've removed something that was preventing another movement command from being struck for about a second after each movement command is hit, so if it was because of that it should run much more smoothly now.

The not-being-able-to pay thing... That is a bug. Whoops. Let me just check something here...

Edit: Well, I checked, and I can pay on my end. Did he just brush you off when you talked to him?
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: squeakyReaper on March 18, 2011, 12:45:00 pm
I just have no idea how to talk to him.  Or...  what he is.  He's that white i at the blue S, right?  What button do I use to communicate with him?  Do I move into him, or press another button?
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: Willfor on March 18, 2011, 12:46:44 pm
Yeah, he's the 'i'. That will change to something more official soon.

Click on him with the left mouse button. I should really make that more apparent in the next version of the Manual.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: squeakyReaper on March 18, 2011, 12:57:18 pm
Yeah, no mention of it in the manual.  You probably mentioned that somewhere in this topic, and I just missed it.  At any rate, no crashes when I do everything BUT pay him, so there's that.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: Thendash on March 18, 2011, 03:58:41 pm
I played it, and no crashes for me. The ability to go diagonally and to hold a direction button down would be nice, but that's all I really have to add due to the bare bones nature of the release.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: Willfor on March 20, 2011, 10:51:04 pm
I implemented diagonal movement, and holding buttons down shortly after you requested them, Thendash. Unfortunately, it's been slow going since then.

I made some bigger progress today:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

^ This is what good health looks like.

The bounty hunters don't like it when you're in good health...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It would be a better screen if limbs didn't go white when they they were pretty much destroyed. Also, having them be destroyed means very little at the moment. Still, I'm slowly expanding the framework I've already laid down. The next thing I have to work with the display on is a message box where combat text will actually go. It's not too difficult to set up, actually, I should have it soon. I actually should have had it done before I even released a tech demo come to think of it.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: Willfor on March 23, 2011, 09:28:10 pm
Video Blog #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhoyZ7wvjhk)

This gives a visual tour of the inventory system so far. The audio levels have been raised by a lot. It may be too loud for some people now. A transcript might be in the cards later, but I took a bit of time trying to get this done right.

Anyway! Things are really starting to come together in the very base systems. I'm going to have to tackle combat again before I can release. I have to do an AI overhaul to incorporate party controls, and I have to make materials actually do ... anything at all. Currently they are just there to look pretty.
Title: Re: East Marches [Roguelike - Release 0.1.0]
Post by: Willfor on March 27, 2011, 01:44:35 am
Ducking into an alley in East Fort:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Having a conversation with a potential party member:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Multi-image demonstration of mouse-click combat:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I realise release 0.1.0 is not simply bare bones, but bones that have been cooked in the kettle to make broth, and then given to wolves until they've cracked all of the marrow out of it. This, unfortunately, will remain the state of the game until I've got a lot more done with it, even though it's already leaps and bounds ahead of its first incarnation.

So basically, this is a post outlining my goals, and the general direction of the project:

(1) You're screwed, but not because of random chance.

And you're not so much screwed as much as you're in a very bad situation. The game will not set out to kill you at random because it can. No. Your actions or inactions in any given situation will determine the way the major forces in the game see you. You're in a bad situation, but working at that situation will give you every chance to get out of it. A lot of the methods to get out of the situation are dangerous, but you'll go into them knowing they are dangerous. A meteor will not come down on your head because the RNG decides it wants to join in on the fun.

If you die because the game arbitrarily decides to take you out, it is a bug and not a feature. If you pissed off a gang member by disrespecting her, and her friends come along two days later to beat your face into the wall, that is a feature and not a bug. If you pissed off a gang member by disrespecting her, and a rival gang beats your face in, she was having an affair with the leader of the rival gang.

-- Or it could be a bug in there. Sure. Good luck to future me in finding that if I get to that point.

(2) You are the dashing rogue figure who is either too clever for his own good, or just plain dumb.

Personality-wise, it's not going to matter whether your character is male or female, you are the one who said the wrong thing when the guards came for you. It was tremendously funny. They laughed so hard when they clapped you in irons that you honestly thought you were going to get away with it.

Funny that.

(3) The world doesn't care about you unless you make it care about you.

There are a bunch of things going on around you, and it won't be possible to do all of them in the run of a game. The plots are mutable, and will react to each other in different ways, and not just because of you. There are other protagonistically-inclined characters out there who will do the job just as well as you can. Characters that you can recruit can be recruited by other parties going out into the wilds. Other characters can default on their obligations and be dragged to justice. There are actors outside of East Fort who are running their own games that may start, climax, and finish before you even see them, leaving you staring at the aftermath when you walk through.

The goal is not to randomly generate these, but to modify base plots via other circumstances, and making the plots robust enough to withstand having more than one side on them. Plots that will run whether you ever find out about them or not.


There are more, but those are the big ones for the moment.