I thought of it and decided: why not. I'm curious to see how many non novices are interested in a mafia similar to Beginner's setup but without the beginner requirement.
So for you pros out there, here it is. Plain Old Mafia.
Similar rules and roles to Beginner 3.
The Rules:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Roles:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
7. webadict
I was expecting a not-very-beginner-but-still-new game when I saw this. Ah, well. I'll just watch.
will be watching this.
I'm feeling a little outclassed.
Just don't move while we put this rope around your neck.I'm feeling a little outclassed.
Well, don't. You'll be just fine.
Just don't move while we put this rope around your neck.I'm feeling a little outclassed.
Well, don't. You'll be just fine.
Spoilspec me. I'd rather not have to use my nonexsistant deduction skills to figure out who is doing it.
There will be 9 players: 5 Vanilla Townies, 1 Town Doctor, 1 Town Cop, 1 Mafia Godfather, and 1 Mafia RoleblockerMaaan I thought this was clear enough :c
[OOC: Lovely flavor, Pandar <3]<3 Thanks, but that was only the background. Just wait until someone actually does something. >:3
webadict: Will our play be affected much without a doctor and cop? How are you planning on approaching D1?Yes? Doesn't every electrical signal cause some sort of effect on the world? Not only that, but there is a Doctor and a Cop. I should know. I'm BOTH.
webadict: Will our play be affected much without a doctor and cop? How are you planning on approaching D1?Yes? Doesn't every electrical signal cause some sort of effect on the world? Not only that, but there is a Doctor and a Cop. I should know. I'm BOTH.
Anyhow, philosophy and psychological embodiments of myself aside, I'd like to take this time to render your question entirely futile by showing that there is indeed a Cop and a Doctor.
I'll also destroy your second question by saying that I have no intention of truthfully answering it. Why would I tell you how I'm going to do things? Wouldn't that just tip off the scum? Wherein will I lay a trap? You silly, silly person.
Now, ask a relevant question so that we don't waste anymore time with your senseless garbage. Like, "Why are you asking garbage questions?"
So, why are you asking garbage questions, lordnincompoop?
Oh, and Leafsnail is scum.
Zrk2: Do you have anything special in mind for D1? What do you think would be the best way to play today?
Leafsnail: Do you think pressuring a person at a time or scanning everyone will work best? Why?Scanning everyone at the same time is ok for starting conversations, as you'll get lots of responses and you may be able to follow up on some of them. It works if there's nothing going on (basically, at the start of a game).
This would be an overreaction. Since I hadn't posted yet, it was pretty clear that webadict didn't seriously intend it. I don't see why you'd go at him so hard over it.Oh, and Leafsnail is scum.
Any evidence to support this claim of yours?
And if you're so sure, why aren't you voting for him?
I refuse to believe someone like you is actually this stupid, so why are you acting like this?
This would be an overreaction. Since I hadn't posted yet, it was pretty clear that webadict didn't seriously intend it. I don't see why you'd go at him so hard over it.Oh, and Leafsnail is scum.
Any evidence to support this claim of yours?
And if you're so sure, why aren't you voting for him?
I refuse to believe someone like you is actually this stupid, so why are you acting like this?
NativeForeigner: What can we do to enhance our game today and the rest of the game? Will this setup be problematic for you?
NativeForeigner. If you were the opposite alignment to the one you are, how would you react to this question?
NativeForeigner: What can we do to enhance our game today and the rest of the game? Will this setup be problematic for you?
Play our very best, obviously. Stay active, scumhunt, ask questions, and don't be stupid. I don't see why this setup would be problematic for me. Could you clarify?
Oh LNCP, don't you understand? Leafsnail is SCUM. You're silly. So silly.
Clearly, I found your questions lacking punch or anything. Tell me how I could have answered your question incorrectly? The only thing I can think of is: "I'm scum. Well, crap."
But, you are trying to get conversation moving.
So, I'll keep voting you.
Because that is how I do things. You understand, right?
You must clearly not find fault in my reasoning because you expect me to not find fault in yours.
My logic is undeniable.
Jokerman: What do you think of Vector's questions? How accurate do you think we'll be in our lynches today?
Good morning, Toaster.
What sorts of questions do you think work best for random votes, nowadays? Is there a process that results in good results, or is it all based upon a series of initially chaotic interactions?
Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?
Toaster: Do you think it'll be easier or harder playing in a game like this? Why?
Avoiding spoilspecs is a good idea as we want to keep the replacement pool open. Just in case.Wut. I think you underestimate just how bad I am. The town would probably be better off just having a townie removed than having me take his place.
Jokerman: What do you think of Vector's questions? How accurate do you think we'll be in our lynches today?
I like them, personally. Anyone that knows me knows that I don't particularly care for the RVS, and I'm glad someone other than me is questioning it. As to how accurate our lynches would be...that rather seems likes a leading question. I have no way to tell, honestly. Do you?
Vaguely game related ones, that give you a chance to view into a player's mind. I've always felt that the question itself is less important than how it is answered- usually even more so than the actual answer. The reactions and reactions to reactions are what ends RVS- not the answers to the questions.
NativeForeigner. If you were the opposite alignment to the one you are, how would you react to this question?
With malice.
If you were asked a question that was the opposite of productive, how would you react to it?
QuoteAvoiding spoilspecs is a good idea as we want to keep the replacement pool open. Just in case.Wut. I think you underestimate just how bad I am. The town would probably be better off just having a townie removed than having me take his place.
Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
So, Vector, I haven't played a game with you before, but I've heard good things about you. Do you feel a little rusty? What do you think of playing in a less role heavy environment?
Wuba: Is Leafsnail really scum and you're his partner playing some sick joke you hope you can rub in our faces later?
Also, do you expect anything about this game to be different considering that all of the players are "experienced" in a BM setting?
PFP
Should have asked earlier: Does webadict normally play like this?
The best town scum-hunter, probably. With a Godfather and Roleblocker, the cop has only one person he gets useful info from, and there's a chance he will miss a night. If you want names, Web is always good. LNCP is becoming a good hunter, so he might get underestimated since he's newer.
Also, NativeForeigner.
Also, NativeForeigner.
Not going to back that up with anything?
NativeForeigner: What can we do to enhance our game today and the rest of the game? Will this setup be problematic for you?
Play our very best, obviously. Stay active, scumhunt, ask questions, and don't be stupid. I don't see why this setup would be problematic for me. Could you clarify?
As in, will this setup be difficult or challenging for you in any way, shape or form?
Vector: Which of the four power roles would you rather be? Which is your least favorite pick?
SaintDraze: How do you feel about participation in a game like this? How are you planning on having this play out?
Wuba: Is Leafsnail really scum and you're his partner playing some sick joke you hope you can rub in our faces later?Yep. You got me! Now who's laughing?!?
Also, do you expect anything about this game to be different considering that all of the players are "experienced" in a BM setting?
Most if not all discussion will help scum in some form or fashion, so are you planning on eliminating that too?Well, think about it like this: If I were scum, what would I be afraid of the most in a completely honest Town? The answer is, of course, nothing. I know everything that they know, and they know nothing that I know.
Why would you need to lay a trap in the first place? Why would town intentions need to be anything but honest?
There is no obviously wrong answer. I don't see where you're getting this from.That's the point though. If there's no wrong answer, then how does it catch scum? In what way are you gathering information from the question? My lack of answer is probably giving you just as much information as an answer would.
With nothing to back it up. How is this related to the point above?I see no reason to back up anything at this point. Not only that, but where would you like me to pull my information from? The last 50 posts? There's hardly any information in there, and certainly none of it incriminates you. In fact, I've already figured out that you're more than likely Town, but that doesn't matter. The point here is that the whole thing is a trap. Not for you, mind you. I'm really looking for other people's reaction.
Web: If Leafsnail is scum why are you voting LNCP?If Zrk2 is town, why are you voting him? Clearly, if he is Town, you are scum for voting him. Case closed, amirite?
Nope. I'd expect the accuracy of a lynch to be based on the players' skill, though.Well, that's just stupid. The accuracy of a lynch is hit or miss. So, it's either 100% or 0%.
Why shouldn't you be lynched?SaintDraze: How do you feel about participation in a game like this? How are you planning on having this play out?
well with a cop and a doctor It is vitally important to stick a leg out and participate, If you are town that is,scum might be the ones who will generally keep to themselves until cop is dead.
Well I plan on living the next 5 days at which point the scum will be apparent and we will lynch him.
Now a question to you LNP:
What IS THE DEAL WITH YOUR NEW AVATAR!!!!?????
It is obviously evil.
>.>
Vector:
What is your opinion about the doctor role?
[color:red]NativeForigner[/color]: Why does the random number god favor you?
bacon, or waffles?
If you were scum would you rather be the role blocker or the god father?
[color:red]NativeForigner[/color]: Why does the random number god favor you?
bacon, or waffles?
If you were scum would you rather be the role blocker or the god father?
I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
SaintDraze: How do you feel about participation in a game like this? How are you planning on having this play out?
well with a cop and a doctor It is vitally important to stick a leg out and participate, If you are town that is,scum might be the ones who will generally keep to themselves until cop is dead.
Well I plan on living the next 5 days at which point the scum will be apparent and we will lynch him.
[...]
Vector:
What is your opinion about the doctor role?
(NativeForeigner, sorry, but my vote is staying for now. I haven't yet had enough time to look through those games)I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
Web: If Leafsnail is scum why are you voting LNCP?If Zrk2 is town, why are you voting him? Clearly, if he is Town, you are scum for voting him. Case closed, amirite?
(NativeForeigner, sorry, but my vote is staying for now. I haven't yet had enough time to look through those games)I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
I have three votes on me. None with any sort of reasoning. It just annoys me a little.
You have two votes on you, sweetie, and one was random (Leafsnail's), whilst the other (mine) was a reaction to your overreaction.
Your big overreaction.
The one I quoted, which implicated Webadict and Leafsnail in some sort of crazy-ass plot right after Leafsnail voted you.
Remember that?
I also don't see what "being blessed by the RNG" has to do with the actions of human players, but perhaps it makes better sense in your scummy little universe.
Zrk2: Do you think RVS will last longer, shorter, or the same as role-heavier games?
Vector, how would you go about playing this game as scum? How do you plan on finding scum? What effect do you think NKs will have on voting in the next day?
Speaking of which, could you link me to a game or two where you played scum? I've heard a lot about you, but I've never read a game that you've been in.
If you've got any questions or suspicions to go with that vote, Webface, just kick 'em my way.Of course I have suspicions. That's what the vote is for. I'm surprised so few people are calling me out on anything, anyhow. Tsk tsk.
You literally just unvoted without really learning anything. I find it to be a camouflage of sorts.The best town scum-hunter, probably. With a Godfather and Roleblocker, the cop has only one person he gets useful info from, and there's a chance he will miss a night. If you want names, Web is always good. LNCP is becoming a good hunter, so he might get underestimated since he's newer.Good. Thank you. Unvote. I'll have more questions for you later.
To be noncommittal and also equally thoughtless. It's meaning is rather clear when read. Plus, you seem to be suspicious for no reason other than to be seemingly skeptical.I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
Blessed by the number generator -> event with low probabilityAnd then you justify it somehow with this post, which makes it okay for me to vote you with no reason whatsoever. Clearly.
Currently being grilled -> negative feeling and overreactions
Event with low probability + negative feeling and overreactions related to former, rather than poor playing ability -> scum
Not necessarily, but heuristically it's enough to press on.
Might I ask your opinion on it? I'm curious.And I don't find this to be scumhunting either. You're just asking him to show up to seem more active and asking pointless stupid questions. "Hey, Vector, I've got a way to scumhunt: What do you think of ponies?"
I'd also like to know what Leafsnail thinks of the current events, since he's been very quiet.
I aknowledge your answer, but would point out that your question isn't paradoxical and thus isn't a very effective punchline. Early on I would humour it, later on if there's better things to be doing I would attack it for being a useless question. Unvote.NativeForeigner. If you were the opposite alignment to the one you are, how would you react to this question?
With malice.
If you were asked a question that was the opposite of productive, how would you react to it?
Might I ask your opinion on it? I'm curious.It's a fair point - I've left my post late due to being somewhat distracted by other things. Not sure what doing this is meant to achieve though.
I'd also like to know what Leafsnail thinks of the current events, since he's been very quiet.
Zrk2: Do you think RVS will last longer, shorter, or the same as role-heavier games?
I have a feeling that it will be longer because there is little that can happen in a weird way to solidify peoples choices for scum.
Vector, how would you go about playing this game as scum? How do you plan on finding scum? What effect do you think NKs will hav e on voting in the next day?
Heh, thanks for being reasonable. I was worried that you would be hard-headed about it.
As for the unvote, that's understandable.
Speaking of which, could you link me to a game or two where you played scum? I've heard a lot about you, but I've never read a game that you've been in.
Might I ask your opinion on it? I'm curious.
Native:Heh, thanks for being reasonable. I was worried that you would be hard-headed about it.
As for the unvote, that's understandable.
Speaking of which, could you link me to a game or two where you played scum? I've heard a lot about you, but I've never read a game that you've been in.
Could you be softballing her any more?
Why shouldn't you be lynched?I'd like to think that I make the game some what funnier...
SaintDraze: That is a decent RVS question, and overall a completely acceptable post if you had posted it 24 hours ago. Does nothing else that has happened yet seem worthy of your comment?All I can observe are that there are three people in the Orange,
Vector: So your secondary pick is between the new guy and a lurker- noted.
Do you think this is Town Web or Scum Web? I believe you've played with him enough to know.
Leafsnail: How do you plan to get a better read of the people here you've played fewer games with?
Native: Well If the Random god commands it, it must be so.
You shouldn't really be sweating the votes on you so much,
All the votes that are on you are just because RVS.
I doubt that they will last for long.
Leaf snail already stopped voting for you to vote for Vector.
Do you have any players that you really wouldn't want to be scum Native?
5 days
Now a question to you LNP:
What IS THE DEAL WITH YOUR NEW AVATAR!!!!?????
It is obviously evil.
>.>
You newbies! Always so sloppy.
4. We need more activity. I'm not yet ready to start bashing heads on that. It's the gentle reminder stage, rather than the "GET OUT HERE BEFORE I IMMOLATE YOU, FUCKERS" stage.
Why shouldn't you be lynched?"Activity at a low?
No one playing Mafia seriously?
Are they, Armok forbid, Quoting your PMS?
Show em Wot's Wot With an Acme mod kill!
Zap em And Wack em!
You are the true Ubermod with mod kill at your finger tips!"
All I can observe are that there are three people in the Orange,
Vector,
Native,
And
Web.
I get the feeling that Native may be hiding something, Just a tad, due to his slight defensiveness of the somewhat coincidental votes he got.
Since there was no good reasoning for them voting him then he had nothing to worry about...
Wait, I am still New?
5 days mean that the game is full of damning evidence if you look hard enough.
It wouldn't be my actions that insures who ever will win, its the scums.
Vector:
What is your opinion about the doctor role?
Vector:If you could inspect and protect who would it be?
Do you think this is Town Web or Scum Web? I believe you've played with him enough to know.
Well Vector My first question was just to question your opinion of the role...
The second was because I had to ask something :P
Because Apparently I am useless...
you mind answering it anyway?
Well Vector My first question was just to question your opinion of the role...
The second was because I had to ask something :P
Because Apparently I am useless...
you mind answering it anyway?
Is that scummy to you, Vector? Do you think that LNCP doing that is a tell, or are you just giving friendly advice?
Don't hop onto my arguments. If you're going to declare someone scummy, I want to see some of your own attacks and questions.
Otherwise, you just look like you're distancing yourself from him.
See my earlier posts.
Zrk2: Do you think RVS will last longer, shorter, or the same as role-heavier games?
I have a feeling that it will be longer because there is little that can happen in a weird way to solidify peoples choices for scum.
Vector, how would you go about playing this game as scum? How do you plan on finding scum? What effect do you think NKs will hav e on voting in the next day?
Fair enough. However, how do you think NK selection will generate any information that is not inherently WIFOM?
Well Vector My first question was just to question your opinion of the role...
The second was because I had to ask something :P
So you aren't actually interested in scumhunting?
Passivity, indecisiveness, lurking, apathy. Yeah, scum.Because Apparently I am useless...
Also useless.you mind answering it anyway?
Passive.
[@Native] Your big overreaction.
[@Native] Your big overreaction.
I don't see one.
NativeForeigner. If you were the opposite alignment to the one you are, how would you react to this question?
With malice.
If you were asked a question that was the opposite of productive, how would you react to it?
Wuba: Is Leafsnail really scum and you're his partner playing some sick joke you hope you can rub in our faces later?
What?
No I won't be sitting down for a Lynch or Lose situation, You are never supposed to do that!
I meant that by the time we reach such a situation like that the best course of action is to go through the game and pick through the game until you have compelling evidence of who scum is.
What I mean when I said those people were in the orange was that people seemed to be after them at the current time.
we have more then 2-OH SHIT THIS ISN'T the RP GAME I AM PLAYING! ACK!
umm...
Well there is an outstanding lack of action if its ending today.
well I am going to unvote
and Extend request since I don't really know where my suspicions really lie...
Vector:If you could inspect and protect who would it be?
You've asked three questions: Two on Vector and one on Jokerman, and followed up on none of them. There is no hunting here to speak of. No scumpicks (or anything, even) are provided, and out of the blue you vote me. What is going on here? Why haven't you hunted?
Lordnincompoop
Possibly. I think that it should be a red light that indicates "question more here," but it isn't failsafe. I usually pay more attention to things like over-detailing of one particular thought, because that's usually a gambit to provide distraction from some other, weaker part of the post.Mhmm. So, look back at your post before that. Did all those things really go through your head at the time of those actions? During what you say is still basically RVS? Because, really, I don't see how you even had that much stuff to explain by that point.
Leafsnail: It's a good thing it wasn't meant to be paradoxical. Your answer is noted.Saying "noted" is a good way to pretend your question was useful for something. Want to say exactly what this note means?
Leafsnail: How do you plan to get a better read of the people here you've played fewer games with?Pressing them harder. There are some things most people display more of as scum.
Mhmm. So, look back at your post before that. Did all those things really go through your head at the time of those actions? During what you say is still basically RVS? Because, really, I don't see how you even had that much stuff to explain by that point.
Vector, I don't really believe your suspicions. At all.
Which is another thing I hate. You keep putting in little notes about how much you might be wrong, just in case you're wrong. You're not certain of what? You have to be certain of something. Why are you making yourself not accountable for your actions later on?Vector, I don't really believe your suspicions. At all.
Noted. Once I'm certain, I'll be sure to work harder to convince you.
Which is another thing I hate. You keep putting in little notes about how much you might be wrong, just in case you're wrong. You're not certain of what? You have to be certain of something. Why are you making yourself not accountable for your actions later on?
I am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining. The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other. I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around. The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_> It looks like an opportunistic vote.Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished. You're spending your time here, waiting for answers to a terrible question. You're essentially rolefishing, according to your own logic. Let's walk through this together.
I am not sure why SaintDraze has been asking about roles so much. I have two guesses.Think about if I was giving you this choice right now: You're either scum, or you're a PR. There is no way a dichotomy like that is beneficial as town. No. Way. If he claims a power role, someone has succeeded in finding a PR. (Or he's lying! [TWEEST!]) If he claims no power role, you've eliminated a choice for PR.
a. He is scum.
b. He is a newb with a PR (doctor) who wants advice on what to do.
I am currently trying to figure out which.
I think you're town, as well as Leafsnail and LN. I don't have a read on Toaster yet. He's been a lot more quiet recently than I remember.Okay, well, clearly you have reasoning to believe I am Town, along with Leafsnail and LNCP. You might want to start giving that a shot. Because, coincidentally, I am all for Townhunting, as well. I have always been a proponent for reasoning why someone is town as well as why someone is scum. I never understood why people had such an aversion to it.
I think NF is probably noobtown. Specifically, he hasn't been jumpy, he isn't acting like he's too easy to please--cooperative, but not overly so. The weird intro "What, are Leaf and Web scum together?!" thing is still bugging me, but given the recent beginners' games and the stuff coming out of them, I think it makes sense.Is this an excuse or what? Are you saying he's scummy and that is was alright for you to have voted him? Are you saying he is town? WHY IS HE SUDDENLY MORE LIKELY TO BE TOWN NOW? You don't really segue into an answer at all. You just go from him being suspicious enough to drop your vote off of Toaster (who you suddenly find to be neutral or something) and keep it there.
I am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining. The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other. I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around. The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_> It looks like an opportunistic vote.Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.
I am not sure why SaintDraze has been asking about roles so much. I have two guesses.Think about if I was giving you this choice right now: You're either scum, or you're a PR. There is no way a dichotomy like that is beneficial as town. No. Way. If he claims a power role, someone has succeeded in finding a PR. (Or he's lying! [TWEEST!]) If he claims no power role, you've eliminated a choice for PR.
a. He is scum.
b. He is a newb with a PR (doctor) who wants advice on what to do.
I am currently trying to figure out which.
This is definitely the worst way to go about this, Vector. It's like your goal here is to get him to confess his role. That's not really your job though. Why does a PR have anything to do with it?
Why? There isn't any sort of precedent that makes this an either...or situation. It's a type of rolefishing.
I think you're town, as well as Leafsnail and LN. I don't have a read on Toaster yet. He's been a lot more quiet recently than I remember.Okay, well, clearly you have reasoning to believe I am Town, along with Leafsnail and LNCP. You might want to start giving that a shot. Because, coincidentally, I am all for Townhunting, as well. I have always been a proponent for reasoning why someone is town as well as why someone is scum. I never understood why people had such an aversion to it.
So, please enlighten me.
I think NF is probably noobtown. Specifically, he hasn't been jumpy, he isn't acting like he's too easy to please--cooperative, but not overly so. The weird intro "What, are Leaf and Web scum together?!" thing is still bugging me, but given the recent beginners' games and the stuff coming out of them, I think it makes sense.Is this an excuse or what? Are you saying he's scummy and that is was alright for you to have voted him? Are you saying he is town? WHY IS HE SUDDENLY MORE LIKELY TO BE TOWN NOW? You don't really segue into an answer at all. You just go from him being suspicious enough to drop your vote off of Toaster (who you suddenly find to be neutral or something) and keep it there.
I think NF is probably noobtown. Specifically, he hasn't been jumpy, he isn't acting like he's too easy to please--cooperative, but not overly so. The weird intro "What, are Leaf and Web scum together?!" thing is still bugging me, but given the recent beginners' games and the stuff coming out of them, I think it makes sense.
I think NF is probably noobtown. Specifically, he hasn't been jumpy, he isn't acting like he's too easy to please--cooperative, but not overly so. The weird intro "What, are Leaf and Web scum together?!" thing is still bugging me, but given the recent beginners' games and the stuff coming out of them, I think it makes sense.
Really Vector? You seriously couldn't tell that was a joke? I'm fairly certain even Wuba caught that was a /joke. Also, I have been in any BM games recently.
Okay, I've read all I needed to.I started the game late, I Random voted you before reading the game because otherwise I would be to tempted to not random vote.
SaintDraze: Is there a particular reason you went with the RNG when I already had two votes? The game is a few pages in, you probably could have found a reason to vote someone if you had actually looked.
Nks rearely ever generate anything that isn't WIFOM, unless the scum make a really bad choice and hit the person who has been only grilling them... But even then, it's still only WIFOM, so I have a feeling it will only cause WIFOM.
I have been observing and developing an idea of how everyone is playing this game, so I can have background information upon which to preface my scumpicks upon.
If you've got any questions or suspicions to go with that vote, Webface, just kick 'em my way.
Okay, I've read all I needed to.I started the game late, I Random voted you before reading the game because otherwise I would be to tempted to not random vote.
SaintDraze: Is there a particular reason you went with the RNG when I already had two votes? The game is a few pages in, you probably could have found a reason to vote someone if you had actually looked.
I believe that a player should always random vote as their first move....
I think NF is probably noobtown. Specifically, he hasn't been jumpy, he isn't acting like he's too easy to please--cooperative, but not overly so. The weird intro "What, are Leaf and Web scum together?!" thing is still bugging me, but given the recent beginners' games and the stuff coming out of them, I think it makes sense.
Really Vector? You seriously couldn't tell that was a joke? I'm fairly certain even Wuba caught that was a /joke. Also, I have been in any BM games recently.
... Kind of funny that you're only passing off as a joke after, what, the fourth time I've mentioned it? Also, jokes still reflect one's subconscious thoughts. It's not like I'm going to go "Oh, it was a JOKE! Of course! I'll just... shove that little suspicion off over there then, shall I?"
It was a suspicious joke.
I don't like suspicious jokes.
So, given that you apparently aren't straight from a BM, why don't you tell me:
Who are you suspicious of?
Why haven't you been doing anything but half-heartedly soft-balling me and answering allegations?
Why didn't you bring up your "joke" until now?
Zrk2.
Would you mind being here? What would be a good thing for you to do right now? See following wall of text.
Why is it you're saying things, but not showing things? What is your information so far? See following wall of text.
What are you hiding? Nothing.
Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.
Vector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
Also, NativeForeigner.
Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
I am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining. The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other. I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around. The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_> It looks like an opportunistic vote.Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.
I'm observing them. Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure. A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.
I have read through the game 5 times in a row... I believe I have responded to everyones questions of me.
Like Leafsnail says, he will jump on one thing and go into obsessive detail on it.
Coming in a close second of people I wish I could vote is Web
His way of scumhunting is like LNPs...
Except good.
That doesn't mean that I don't dislike him this game...
His "why shouldn't you be lynched" hurt my feelers :(
How ever the person I will vote for Is leafsnail
He Nitpicked on LNP's way of going about scumhunting a tad too much...
Who do you think is doing the best scum hunting LeafSnail?
<snip>
Well Vector My first question was just to question your opinion of the role...
The second was because I had to ask something :P
Because Apparently I am useless...
you mind answering it anyway?
... Passive, role-fishing, unopinionated, useless. No, I'm not answering that.
Unvote. SaintDraze.
How is it that you, who usually has so many suspicions everywhere, has suddenly run out of them and can only ask about roles and night actions, your suspects limited to distancing tactics?
Ah, that's right. You're scum. That's why.
Coming in a close second of people I wish I could vote is Web
His way of scumhunting is like LNPs...
Except good.
That doesn't mean that I don't dislike him this game...
His "why shouldn't you be lynched" hurt my feelers :(
Saint has drawn my attention for the above post. How many times must you be told that good scumhunting isn't a scumtell?!?!?!?!
As well for a general sense of passivity.
Saint has drawn my attention for the above post. How many times must you be told that good scumhunting isn't a scumtell?!?!?!?!
As well for a general sense of passivity.
She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.
So, Vector, I haven't played a game with you before, but I've heard good things about you. Do you feel a little rusty? What do you think of playing in a less role heavy environment?
I believe that a player should always random vote as their first move....
Pay attention (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2098498#msg2098498) Vector. I mentioned it when you first brought it up.
I'm suspicious of you, SaintDraze, Wuba. Wuba because something about the post of his I mentioned seemed off. I'm still working on figuring out exactly what. SaintDraze because he's half-assing his answers. And you because you're lining up with what I'm looking for. You seem to be trying to get the most out of a small thing I said earlier. You continually bring it up so that eventually you can turn it into a big deal to get me lynched. Especially when I react to it.
Well isn't that nice. My post is so unimportant, it's answered in itself, followed by a vote. I feel like we accomplished a lot here.Zrk2.
Would you mind being here? What would be a good thing for you to do right now? See following wall of text.
Why is it you're saying things, but not showing things? What is your information so far? See following wall of text.
What are you hiding? Nothing.
Unvote, vote Vector.
Ooo, close one. The answer we were really looking for was a person's name.Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.
I deleted your extra quote, as you simply repasted the same one, and I couldn't tell what you were trying to prove.Quote from: VectorVector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
Also, NativeForeigner.
I will agree that these questions are terrible, but the intention is to begin talking, and she DOES happen to get a conversation flowing with NativeForeigner, proving your point to be false. You have again failed to show how this makes Vector scum.Wuba: Is Leafsnail really scum and you're his partner playing some sick joke you hope you can rub in our faces later?
Also, do you expect anything about this game to be different considering that all of the players are "experienced" in a BM setting?
PFP
How many games have you played here, and which were they? How many times have you played scum? Can you link me to the games in which you played scum?
I don't even know what you're trying to show with this post. If someone has to go back and look at the quote in question to figure out what it means, you did something wrong.No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.This is about your only point you make, and it was mine. Not only that, but you had MY WHOLE POST to not only steal arguments from but to supplement them into your own post. You instead chose to make up your own arguments that are potentially nonexistent, but also really bad.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here is one of those scumslips: She tries to justify being passive as letting people drop scumtells, yet tries to push others to be more active. Scum, with a side of hipocrisyI am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining. The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other. I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around. The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_> It looks like an opportunistic vote.Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.
I'm observing them. Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure. A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.
Wuba because something about the post of his I mentioned seemed off. I'm still working on figuring out exactly what.That literally came out of nowhere and is just vague and unjustified enough to jump on board a bandwagon at any time.
See, Zrk... I'm not really all for any of the things you're saying. Not only do I want Vector to be alive at least until Day 2, I would really, REALLY hope that you'd be giving her a fair trial. On the one hand, you suddenly popped into existence and gave us something to read. On the other hand, you popped out of nowhere and gave us crap to read.Well isn't that nice. My post is so unimportant, it's answered in itself, followed by a vote. I feel like we accomplished a lot here.Zrk2.
Would you mind being here? What would be a good thing for you to do right now? See following wall of text.
Why is it you're saying things, but not showing things? What is your information so far? See following wall of text.
What are you hiding? Nothing.
Unvote, vote Vector.
I was looking for a better attack than that.See, Zrk... I'm not really all for any of the things you're saying. Not only do I want Vector to be alive at least until Day 2, I would really, REALLY hope that you'd be giving her a fair trial. On the one hand, you suddenly popped into existence and gave us something to read. On the other hand, you popped out of nowhere and gave us crap to read.Well isn't that nice. My post is so unimportant, it's answered in itself, followed by a vote. I feel like we accomplished a lot here.Zrk2.
Would you mind being here? What would be a good thing for you to do right now? See following wall of text.
Why is it you're saying things, but not showing things? What is your information so far? See following wall of text.
What are you hiding? Nothing.
Unvote, vote Vector.
That would be because there isn't much to accomplish there. What were you looking for?
Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.
False. Forcing someone into a scummy mindset can give you reads on how natural or unnatural that thought pattern is for a given player.
Or it can create false positives if the scum choose to NK that person (or lots of WIFOM in this case).Quote from: VectorVector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
Also, NativeForeigner.Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
You quoted me twice on the same thing to explain... what, exactly? Please tell me how all of my questions about behavior and reasoning in this game have to do with establishing a meta, because I'm not seeing it.
Yeah, I asked for past games from LNP. I was seeing how he responded to that request more than being honestly interested in the information. That was the only meta question I asked. So put up or shut up, friendo.
My point was that you appear to contradict yourself here. You say that the RVS is for creating discussion from the questions asked and the answers provided, yet your questions do not ask anything that would provoke discussion, since they only go towards you determining his meta. Therefore you fail to live up to your own stated goals in the RVS.No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
Chainsaw defense.
This has already been addressed previously. I can address it again, but I believe you'd do better by actually reading the thread.
Mmhm.She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.So, Vector, I haven't played a game with you before, but I've heard good things about you. Do you feel a little rusty? What do you think of playing in a less role heavy environment?
Yes, I do feel pretty rusty. Less so than I did last time I played, though, because I feel confident that I'll be able to be active and aggressive again. Also, I'm a hell of a lot more mentally stable.
It's the sort of rustiness that comes of not having employed one's skills, not of having had one's skills degrade substantially.Which is another thing I hate. You keep putting in little notes about how much you might be wrong, just in case you're wrong. You're not certain of what? You have to be certain of something. Why are you making yourself not accountable for your actions later on?
I'm worried about lynching town, and I'm still shaking off the rust.
Don't be an idiot. You asked me if I was rusty, so yes--I did bring it out early. Because you asked. The second time, which I suppose constitutes the "often" in your book, explains why I was expressing uncertainty in my skills. As you may have noticed, I haven't said anything about being rusty recently. This is because I no longer feel rusty. Ok, good. I hope we do hear that again because it will confirm you scummitude as you try and cover your inevitable tells.Here is one of those scumslips: She tries to justify being passive as letting people drop scumtells, yet tries to push others to be more active. Scum, with a side of hipocrisyI am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining. The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other. I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around. The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_> It looks like an opportunistic vote.Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.
I'm observing them. Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure. A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.
Again, dearest: don't be a goddamned idiot. I explained why I was pushing some people and observing others. The difference between my behavior and that of those whom I am exhorting to post more is that I'm actually talking, arguing, and questioning, and they aren't. I don't believe in passiveness alone. I believe in occasionally observing someone one finds suspicious while attacking and prodding other people. Then why not ask a few questions about said acts, oh yes 'sometimes you have to let scum be scum in peace.' Brilliant, we can 'observe' you all game long while you mess around and kill us off?
I'd still like this answering, but I'll unvote for now.Possibly. I think that it should be a red light that indicates "question more here," but it isn't failsafe. I usually pay more attention to things like over-detailing of one particular thought, because that's usually a gambit to provide distraction from some other, weaker part of the post.Mhmm. So, look back at your post before that. Did all those things really go through your head at the time of those actions? During what you say is still basically RVS? Because, really, I don't see how you even had that much stuff to explain by that point.
I wish I could vote LNP but it would only be because he has no sense of humor, and how he scumhunts.
Like Leafsnail says, he will jump on one thing and go into obsessive detail on it.
How ever the person I will vote for Is leafsnailWait, you agree with my point but think it's scummy to make that point? What?
He Nitpicked on LNP's way of going about scumhunting a tad too much...
Who do you think is doing the best scum hunting LeafSnail?
Hypocrisy and indecisiveness. You're switching between two positions here; you're complaining about my methods, yet when Leafsnail does so it becomes a scumtell.So, you definitely read my post since you replied to SaintDraze. And yet you still didn't reply to my points, LordNincompoop.
Extension.Mhmm. So, look back at your post before that. Did all those things really go through your head at the time of those actions? During what you say is still basically RVS? Because, really, I don't see how you even had that much stuff to explain by that point.
Yes. Of course, they were condensed into a number of pictures and fragmented memories, but I was thinking about those points, in general, as I posted.
I really, really don't want a repeat of what happened last time I played here. I want to be useful.
2. There is one question that is remotely related to player meta. It was after an apparent slip. Informing me that I am contradicting my own RVS expectations brings you... where?To the point that by not asking questions to provoke the discussion that you claim is the point of the RVS you are not living up to your own goals for the RVS.
Please note, Zrk, that I too have a post you can reply to. Not just the top message of it. I'm really disliking the answers, and I'll address them both together.Address away, and then I shall reply. Going to bed soon, will be able to post again ~12pm EST tomorrow. I hope.
Wuba because something about the post of his I mentioned seemed off. I'm still working on figuring out exactly what.That literally came out of nowhere and is just vague and unjustified enough to jump on board a bandwagon at any time.
I'm really pushing on WHAT it is that seemed off to you. Things don't just "seem off" for no reason. They have specific ways of being off. Like a picture seeming like it's sideways. Or colored wrong. Or the face is hideous, despite being incredibly gorgeous. It's some aspect that is funny, and your generalized way of "he seems off" is about as unsupported as you can get without just posting my name in blue.
To the point that by not asking questions to provoke the discussion that you claim is the point of the RVS you are not living up to your own goals for the RVS.
Basically:
1. You say the RVS is for getting a discussion going based on questions asked.
2. You ask questions designed to establish his meta.
Looking into his meta is not a discussion provocateur, unless you brought it into the discussion, which you haven't. Had you asked some other questions then there would have been no problem.
As to why you, I haven't seen any other glaring scumslips from anyone else.
Vector: You addressed the points I brought up well, but the feeling that motivated me bringing out those points remains. My gut feeling is still strongly saying you are scum, so my vote remains for now.
Please note, Zrk, that I too have a post you can reply to. Not just the top message of it. I'm really disliking the answers, and I'll address them both together.Address away, and then I shall reply. Going to bed soon, will be able to post again ~12pm EST tomorrow. I hope.
See, Zrk... I'm not really all for any of the things you're saying. Not only do I want Vector to be alive at least until Day 2, I would really, REALLY hope that you'd be giving her a fair trial. On the one hand, you suddenly popped into existence and gave us something to read. On the other hand, you popped out of nowhere and gave us crap to read.See the rest of this post that you have managed to avoid? Yeah, you should answer that.Well isn't that nice. My post is so unimportant, it's answered in itself, followed by a vote. I feel like we accomplished a lot here.Zrk2.
Would you mind being here? What would be a good thing for you to do right now? See following wall of text.
Why is it you're saying things, but not showing things? What is your information so far? See following wall of text.
What are you hiding? Nothing.
Unvote, vote Vector.Ooo, close one. The answer we were really looking for was a person's name.Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.
I don't find this question to be bad. In any way. This isn't bad. It gives about as much opinion on who to NK as READING THE THREAD TO SEE WHO IS ACTIVE. DUR. There IS potential for this question, especially if asked to a scum pre-death. Granted, not much, but I'm not willing to believe that Vector or anybody else is planning on killing someone based on that question.
So, that's one point utterly destroyed. This point proved that you have no idea what you're saying, which might be counter to your overall goal.I deleted your extra quote, as you simply repasted the same one, and I couldn't tell what you were trying to prove.Quote from: VectorVector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
Also, NativeForeigner.
In fact, she had more to say about NativeForeigner right above that quote, which seems to have been deleted, so as to make your argument appear somewhat less incompetent:I will agree that these questions are terrible, but the intention is to begin talking, and she DOES happen to get a conversation flowing with NativeForeigner, proving your point to be false. You have again failed to show how this makes Vector scum.Wuba: Is Leafsnail really scum and you're his partner playing some sick joke you hope you can rub in our faces later?
Also, do you expect anything about this game to be different considering that all of the players are "experienced" in a BM setting?
PFP
How many games have you played here, and which were they? How many times have you played scum? Can you link me to the games in which you played scum?
Now, if you had shown these questions and shown them to be terrible, I could agree with that. Your point, however, is moot, since she DOES provoke a discussion with NativeForeigner, if only a while afterward.I don't even know what you're trying to show with this post. If someone has to go back and look at the quote in question to figure out what it means, you did something wrong.No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
However, that doesn't even begin to say what was wrong with that post. First of all, Vector (supposedly, mind you, as I'm not Vector) misunderstood the quote to mean that the RNG shouldn't favor him (which might have something to do with being picked scum), which was in response to SaintDraze asking why the RNG favored him. Your response MAKES NO SENSE to either situation.
Not only that, but scum would equally like to live. Town want to live because their lynch wastes the Town's resources by not lynching Mafia. Scum want to live so that they win a Day earlier.
Your point thus needs either an explanation or doesn't exist. Which leads tomyyour next point:She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.This is about your only point you make, and it was mine. Not only that, but you had MY WHOLE POST to not only steal arguments from but to supplement them into your own post. You instead chose to make up your own arguments that are potentially nonexistent, but also really bad.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here is one of those scumslips: She tries to justify being passive as letting people drop scumtells, yet tries to push others to be more active. Scum, with a side of hipocrisyI am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining. The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other. I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around. The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_> It looks like an opportunistic vote.Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.
I'm observing them. Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure. A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.
I can help but feel a little disappointed by that. You didn't put any effort into your post at all. Is this what you were working on while you were lurking? You can't even begin to call this evidence or even a reasonable support for your vote. I'm calling you out, pal. You either need to spend a bunch more time on this, or you need to unvote. Not that I'll unvote you any time soon. You haven't shown yourself to be an asset to the Town.
Touché.
Jokerman, scumpicks, reasons. Specifically, what do you think of Toaster?
Toaster, what do you think of Jokerman, and could you provide the reasons why Native ranks in as no. 2?Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.
False. Forcing someone into a scummy mindset can give you reads on how natural or unnatural that thought pattern is for a given player.
Or it can create false positives if the scum choose to NK that person (or lots of WIFOM in this case).Quote from: VectorVector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
Also, NativeForeigner.Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
You quoted me twice on the same thing to explain... what, exactly? Please tell me how all of my questions about behavior and reasoning in this game have to do with establishing a meta, because I'm not seeing it.
Yeah, I asked for past games from LNP. I was seeing how he responded to that request more than being honestly interested in the information. That was the only meta question I asked. So put up or shut up, friendo.
My point was that you appear to contradict yourself here. You say that the RVS is for creating discussion from the questions asked and the answers provided, yet your questions do not ask anything that would provoke discussion, since they only go towards you determining his meta. Therefore you fail to live up to your own stated goals in the RVS.No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
Chainsaw defense.
This has already been addressed previously. I can address it again, but I believe you'd do better by actually reading the thread.
Mmhm.She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.So, Vector, I haven't played a game with you before, but I've heard good things about you. Do you feel a little rusty? What do you think of playing in a less role heavy environment?
Yes, I do feel pretty rusty. Less so than I did last time I played, though, because I feel confident that I'll be able to be active and aggressive again. Also, I'm a hell of a lot more mentally stable.
It's the sort of rustiness that comes of not having employed one's skills, not of having had one's skills degrade substantially.Which is another thing I hate. You keep putting in little notes about how much you might be wrong, just in case you're wrong. You're not certain of what? You have to be certain of something. Why are you making yourself not accountable for your actions later on?
I'm worried about lynching town, and I'm still shaking off the rust.
Don't be an idiot. You asked me if I was rusty, so yes--I did bring it out early. Because you asked. The second time, which I suppose constitutes the "often" in your book, explains why I was expressing uncertainty in my skills. As you may have noticed, I haven't said anything about being rusty recently. This is because I no longer feel rusty. Ok, good. I hope we do hear that again because it will confirm you scummitude as you try and cover your inevitable tells.Here is one of those scumslips: She tries to justify being passive as letting people drop scumtells, yet tries to push others to be more active. Scum, with a side of hipocrisyI am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining. The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other. I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around. The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_> It looks like an opportunistic vote.Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.
I'm observing them. Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure. A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.
Again, dearest: don't be a goddamned idiot. I explained why I was pushing some people and observing others. The difference between my behavior and that of those whom I am exhorting to post more is that I'm actually talking, arguing, and questioning, and they aren't. I don't believe in passiveness alone. I believe in occasionally observing someone one finds suspicious while attacking and prodding other people. Then why not ask a few questions about said acts, oh yes 'sometimes you have to let scum be scum in peace.' Brilliant, we can 'observe' you all game long while you mess around and kill us off?
Native:Heh, thanks for being reasonable. I was worried that you would be hard-headed about it.
As for the unvote, that's understandable.
Speaking of which, could you link me to a game or two where you played scum? I've heard a lot about you, but I've never read a game that you've been in.
Could you be softballing her any more?
Reasons for Native: It's largely associative with Vector, my #1. They spent much of the first couple RL days throwing easy questions and soft attacks at each other in a manner that reeked of distancing. Other than that, gut feeling. I certainly wouldn't vote for him right now, because if I'm wrong on Vector I'm probably wrong on him. He's currently a target for another day.
Impressive piggyback, Lordnincompoop.
See, Zrk... I'm not really all for any of the things you're saying. Not only do I want Vector to be alive at least until Day 2, I would really, REALLY hope that you'd be giving her a fair trial. On the one hand, you suddenly popped into existence and gave us something to read. On the other hand, you popped out of nowhere and gave us crap to read.Well isn't that nice. My post is so unimportant, it's answered in itself, followed by a vote. I feel like we accomplished a lot here.Zrk2.
Would you mind being here? What would be a good thing for you to do right now? See following wall of text.
Why is it you're saying things, but not showing things? What is your information so far? See following wall of text.
What are you hiding? Nothing.
Unvote, vote Vector.
Because there wasn't much to accomplish?Ooo, close one. The answer we were really looking for was a person's name.Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.
I don't find this question to be bad. In any way. This isn't bad. It gives about as much opinion on who to NK as READING THE THREAD TO SEE WHO IS ACTIVE. DUR. There IS potential for this question, especially if asked to a scum pre-death. Granted, not much, but I'm not willing to believe that Vector or anybody else is planning on killing someone based on that question.
So, that's one point utterly destroyed. This point proved that you have no idea what you're saying, which might be counter to your overall goal.
It still could be used by scum to see who is going to favour who, based on who they think will be dangerous.I deleted your extra quote, as you simply repasted the same one, and I couldn't tell what you were trying to prove.Quote from: VectorVector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?
In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question. As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.
Also, NativeForeigner.
In fact, she had more to say about NativeForeigner right above that quote, which seems to have been deleted, so as to make your argument appear somewhat less incompetent:I will agree that these questions are terrible, but the intention is to begin talking, and she DOES happen to get a conversation flowing with NativeForeigner, proving your point to be false. You have again failed to show how this makes Vector scum.Wuba: Is Leafsnail really scum and you're his partner playing some sick joke you hope you can rub in our faces later?
Also, do you expect anything about this game to be different considering that all of the players are "experienced" in a BM setting?
PFP
How many games have you played here, and which were they? How many times have you played scum? Can you link me to the games in which you played scum?
Now, if you had shown these questions and shown them to be terrible, I could agree with that. Your point, however, is moot, since she DOES provoke a discussion with NativeForeigner, if only a while afterward.
However it was not caused by her questions, it came about from other points and questions, so my point stands.I don't even know what you're trying to show with this post. If someone has to go back and look at the quote in question to figure out what it means, you did something wrong.No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.
I believe that constitutes a slip. Explain this statement.
However, that doesn't even begin to say what was wrong with that post. First of all, Vector (supposedly, mind you, as I'm not Vector) misunderstood the quote to mean that the RNG shouldn't favor him (which might have something to do with being picked scum), which was in response to SaintDraze asking why the RNG favored him. Your response MAKES NO SENSE to either situation.
Not only that, but scum would equally like to live. Town want to live because their lynch wastes the Town's resources by not lynching Mafia. Scum want to live so that they win a Day earlier.
Your point thus needs either an explanation or doesn't exist. Which leads tomyyour next point:
Therefore trying not to get lynched is at worst a nulltell. By your own reasoning IT ISN'T A SCUMSLIP, SO WHAT DID I SAY WRONG? YOU AGREE THAT TOWN WANTS TO LIVE. THEREFORE NOT WANTING TO BE LYNCHED ISN'T SCUMMY, EVERYONE FUCKING DOES IT!!!She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.This is about your only point you make, and it was mine. Not only that, but you had MY WHOLE POST to not only steal arguments from but to supplement them into your own post. You instead chose to make up your own arguments that are potentially nonexistent, but also really bad.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here is one of those scumslips: She tries to justify being passive as letting people drop scumtells, yet tries to push others to be more active. Scum, with a side of hipocrisyI am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining. The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other. I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around. The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_> It looks like an opportunistic vote.Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.
I'm observing them. Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure. A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.
I can help but feel a little disappointed by that. You didn't put any effort into your post at all. Is this what you were working on while you were lurking? You can't even begin to call this evidence or even a reasonable support for your vote. I'm calling you out, pal. You either need to spend a bunch more time on this, or you need to unvote. Not that I'll unvote you any time soon. You haven't shown yourself to be an asset to the Town.
I, what? I found the scummiest person present, presented my case, and do not see any other serious scumtells, leaving me with no other cases to make. I have looked, but I see nothing obvious, and we are only chasing each other around in circles.
@vectors question:
A players first move is supposed to be during the RVS isn't? You shouldn't start with an already made assumption at the start of the game. I may have been a tad late for the Random voting stage, but I think I was within my bounds...
And her other question- I really think you are confusing me with Supercharazad
I have been horribly passive for the last couple of games I have been playing.
No I think I have found suspect to question. So I am going to lay off of the distance tactics theory...
It would also be cumbersome to use right now since everyone is nearly attacking some one else...
LordNincompoop is being anal retentive about everything. It's been bothering me more and more. I don't see the use of branding posts that are clearly jokes as "useless", for instance. Everyone can already see that.
Really, you're trying too hard to look like you're doing stuff
and you seem to be hounding people for every possible mistake. That doesn't seem like the action of someone trying to find scum so much as the action of someone trying to find lynches.
I'll put the allegation to you again - you aren't scumhunting. You're just picking on as many small points as you can to try and make other people look bad. You don't seem to be looking for alignments so much as for reasons to hang them.
I should have elaborated more but i didn't have enough time too.
What I was meaning when I said that I want to vote LNP and Web is that I Really wanted to vote them because they are kinda(very) rude(mah poor poor feelers :( ), but I can't because generally they are playing so properly to the point that I am least suspicious of them then everyone else...
Leafsnail however has been nitpicking about it for quite a while on numerous occasions.
(yah I don't really know the right questions to ask :P- But I think I got something from it.)
Now pardon me while I eat a stapler in shame.
I wish we could have a Vote tally some time soon.
I have been observing and developing an idea of how everyone is playing this game, so I can have background information upon which to preface my scumpicks upon.
No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.Therefore trying not to get lynched is at worst a nulltell. By your own reasoning IT ISN'T A SCUMSLIP, SO WHAT DID I SAY WRONG? YOU AGREE THAT TOWN WANTS TO LIVE. THEREFORE NOT WANTING TO BE LYNCHED ISN'T SCUMMY, EVERYONE FUCKING DOES IT!!!
I, what? I found the scummiest person present, presented my case, and do not see any other serious scumtells, leaving me with no other cases to make. I have looked, but I see nothing obvious, and we are only chasing each other around in circles.
Answered right here, Leafsnail:Fair enough.
To the point that by not asking questions to provoke the discussion that you claim is the point of the RVS you are not living up to your own goals for the RVS.This reasoning is painful to look at. What the hell is this supposed to mean, anyway? Looking into meta can provoke discussion just like anything else, and I don't see why you'd think this is scummy even if it were a contradiction.
Basically:
1. You say the RVS is for getting a discussion going based on questions asked.
2. You ask questions designed to establish his meta.
Looking into his meta is not a discussion provocateur, unless you brought it into the discussion, which you haven't. Had you asked some other questions then there would have been no problem.
As to why you, I haven't seen any other glaring scumslips from anyone else.
I will have a half day at school tomorrow and so will have plenty of time to reread the thread indepth and then compose a better list.
Leafsnail however has been nitpicking about it for quite a while on numerous occasions.Yeah, this still doesn't make sense. You don't like what he's doing, you've said a couple of times you don't like what he's doing, but your vote goes to someone who's put their vote where you mouth is.
(yah I don't really know the right questions to ask :P- But I think I got something from it.)
Leafsnail however has been nitpicking about it for quite a while on numerous occasions.Yeah, this still doesn't make sense. You don't like what he's doing, you've said a couple of times you don't like what he's doing, but your vote goes to someone who's put their vote where you mouth is.
(yah I don't really know the right questions to ask :P- But I think I got something from it.)
To the point that by not asking questions to provoke the discussion that you claim is the point of the RVS you are not living up to your own goals for the RVS.This reasoning is painful to look at. What the hell is this supposed to mean, anyway? Looking into meta can provoke discussion just like anything else, and I don't see why you'd think this is scummy even if it were a contradiction.
Basically:
1. You say the RVS is for getting a discussion going based on questions asked.
2. You ask questions designed to establish his meta.
Looking into his meta is not a discussion provocateur, unless you brought it into the discussion, which you haven't. Had you asked some other questions then there would have been no problem.
As to why you, I haven't seen any other glaring scumslips from anyone else.
I will have a half day at school tomorrow and so will have plenty of time to reread the thread indepth and then compose a better list.
X(Why did you follow it, then?
My line of thought is shit...
Unvote
Because she never does follow up on his meta, which would have fulfilled her goals, but she doesn't."Nonsensical accusation A"
Question: Was NativeForeigner the Cop?Question answered: yes he was.
Also, your question to Jokerman today is asking him to indulge in WIFOM.
Nah I am just thinking from scum's perspective.
I for one thought native was definably hiding something, I guess that scum thought so to.
Good morning, Jokerman-EXE.
Why Native Foreigner?
Also, your question to Jokerman today is asking him to indulge in WIFOM.
I'll explain later.
LNCP: I still want your response to this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2111091#msg2111091).
LNCP: I RVed Zrk2, voted Vector because I thought she was scum (still do, but...), then voted Zrk2 for being incredibly scummy. I fail to see how that constitutes vote flinging, or changing several times.
Interestingly enough, I checked to see how many times you've changed your vote... and you still have your RV on SaintDraze. Do you think he's genuinely scummy? When did it go from a RV to a vote on scum? Did you RV him because you thought he'd be a good candidate for a D1 mislynch?
Native foreigner looked like he was hiding something.
His role was useless anyway, the last remaining scum role would show innocent since every role is used in this game...
Unless of course he could have used his contacts to find a doctor...
LOL, what a Bold post, Joker
Nah I am just thinking from scum's perspective. I for one thought native was definably hiding something, I guess that scum thought so to.
@ toaster: I am not interested in finding the doctor now, I was just thinking of what would justify the usefulness of a cop when everyone he inspects from now on will be innocent.
Even the act of claiming cop will result in jack shit unless he ge- unless he gets flavor from who ever he inspects, who can then confirm him to be cop >.<
But I didn't want to come out as a complete failure on day one... :'(
So I saw that most attacked person was Zrk2 and read up on him...
Webadict, when do you think this day will END?
Web: Since when do you defend people?
Good, everyone's here now.
I don't know about you guys, but from my (extensive) experience playing scum, that sort of question scares the crap out of you. It makes it look like you've been caught, and the questioner is just looking for the last nail to put in the coffin. Even if you notice before you overreact, one often fumbles a bit--and the perpetrator of the act will also tend to jump a little, even if they weren't asked directly.
For example, I nearly answered this:Webadict, when do you think this day will END?
My hope was that I'd hit correctly and Jokerman would be shaken. My other hope was that I'd get responses from the town. In any case, it's a ping for data, because I don't know what to do next.
This is not about simple data. It is about tone. I do not give a crap what their "reason" is. What I care about is how they relay that reasoning.
Sorry about the stupid coding, I was in a hurry. I'm now in the most hellacious quarter of my life, so if I just disappear one day then please don't hate me for too long.
Native foreigner looked like he was hiding something.Let's look at the obvious reason of a confirmed Town: Since he's a Cop, his purpose is now moot, but there is only ever one Cop. There is also only one Mafia - the Godfather - who would be really, really stupid to claim Cop. But, if you want to do that, then go ahead. I'm not stopping you.
His role was useless anyway, the last remaining scum role would show innocent since every role is used in this game...
Unless of course he could have used his contacts to find a doctor...
Vector. The argument I made yesterday stands.That is really stupid of you Toaster. You're second on the scumlist, mostly for your insisting hammer yesterday, but you're actually using WIFOM as a reasoning behind Vector while also complaining about WIFOM. Isn't that, oh, I don't know, hypocritical?
Reading over Zrk2, you were his favorite person to interact with. That strikes me as a new scum distancing to the point of tunneling.
Also, your question to Jokerman today is asking him to indulge in WIFOM.
Vector and Web: I'm quite interested in hearing your detailed reasons, whenever you get around to posting them.Oh don't worry. I just needed a couple of hours. I'm really wanting to see a good post from you about Vector. Go on. Shoo. Go collect your petty scraps.
Nah I am just thinking from scum's perspective. I for one thought native was definably hiding something, I guess that scum thought so to.You cannot be serious with that first line of yours. You THOUGHT Native was hiding something? Like, hiding something scummy, or hiding something power role related? You're obviously not thinking quite on the ball here. Whoever said it was right: You're not scumhunting, which is another strike against you. You kinda deserved it.
@ toaster: I am not interested in finding the doctor now, I was just thinking of what would justify the usefulness of a cop when everyone he inspects from now on will be innocent.
Even the act of claiming cop will result in jack shit unless he ge- unless he gets flavor from who ever he inspects, who can then confirm him to be cop >.<
Web: Since when do you defend people?Since I felt like it. Got a problem with it? Ironic that some people who should know about this aren't answering it for me. Even if the answer was posed to me, there are people out there who actually have lots of examples. Funny enough...
Vector: That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it. I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him. Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?How about you make a real post? Because I'm not liking your style right now. Mostly because you're saying thing without showing things based on previous things where I'm not seeing things. Quotes or GTFO.
If so, you don't seem to have a next step. Do you not have any other suspects?
Why are you answering questions for Web?
Vector, would you mind telling me how I rated, then? You didn't unvote, but you didn't state that you actually thought I was scum, either.
Vector: That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it. I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him. Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?
If so, you don't seem to have a next step. Do you not have any other suspects?
Why are you answering questions for Web?
You didn't answer me when I asked how I rated, though; in fact, in that entire post, you sidestepped the issue of whether or not you actually thought I was scummy at all. You promise more later, without voicing a suspicion or unvoting, while also claiming to not have an actual read on me?
I understand the importance of having a life (have fun on your date, by the way), but I'll be waiting to see what you have to say tomorrow. Homework and relationships are more important.
Vector. The argument I made yesterday stands.That is really stupid of you Toaster. You're second on the scumlist, mostly for your insisting hammer yesterday, but you're actually using WIFOM as a reasoning behind Vector while also complaining about WIFOM. Isn't that, oh, I don't know, hypocritical?
Reading over Zrk2, you were his favorite person to interact with. That strikes me as a new scum distancing to the point of tunneling.
Also, your question to Jokerman today is asking him to indulge in WIFOM.
Yeah. Yeah it is. So, if you WANT to vote Vector now, you're going to need a really good post. Outstandingly good, actually. And, you're going to be under scrutiny from me as well. Don't want me to defend her? Probably should've thought about that before you said anything stupid.
Vector: That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it. I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him. Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?How about you make a real post? Because I'm not liking your style right now. Mostly because you're saying thing without showing things based on previous things where I'm not seeing things. Quotes or GTFO.
If so, you don't seem to have a next step. Do you not have any other suspects?
Why are you answering questions for Web?
On a side note, why AREN'T you answering questions that you could? Didn't... didn't I defend you in Paranormal? Oh, that's right. I did. You seem to be going after Vector for answering questions for me, despite her HAVING THE ANSWERS. You ALSO had the answers, didn't you? Hmm... Odd. Odd indeed.
You're going to either back off Vector, make an AIRTIGHT case, or I'm going to make sure you get lynched. In fact, you'll have to do the second option no matter what. Yeah, I'm a jerk. Deal with it.
Vector: That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it. I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him. Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?
If so, you don't seem to have a next step. Do you not have any other suspects?
Why are you answering questions for Web?
a. Oh, why I went for Jokerman, specifically? See above. I had no read on him. I just wanted to see what would happen, and he seemed to be the best person to levy the first rally at. Hadn't shown up, didn't have much to say, wasn't going to be able to just parry the blow aside.
b. Sure I have other suspects. I didn't want only his reaction. I wanted to see what everyone would do. Now I've got that piece of information, and I continue to have suspects.
c. Because I had the right information, and it seemed relevant. What, think we're scumbuddies?
Oh, blow me. That's not what I was doing and you know it. I wanted to know why her vote was staying on me when she hadn't even said I was suspicious, not "OH NO VECTOR STOP VOTING ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE BETTER" and you know it. Identifying a possible scum move isn't trying to appear like anything.Oh, and by the way, is that question an attempt to get people to vote me, instead of going through any effort to find evidence yourself? Because all I see is a very passive attack right there, and that last one too:
And seriously, I might have missed it, but why is Web acting like this?
NativeForeigner would have been the obvious choice, because of all of his connections to various people etc. How the scum wanted us to feel after the flip is probably something different for each player, so their goal would be accomplished: confusion.Since when do I defend people. I like how when I answer the question, you simply jump to everyone else to try and make me look scummy for you. It's a really terrible try, I'll give you that, but you might want to consider doing something. Productive.
Web: Since when do you defend people?
SaintDraze: You seem shockingly cavalier about this entire situation - almost satisfied. Why am I getting the strong feeling that you know something about this?
Wow dude. Talk about acting completely different.Except that there is only 1 scum, so there's no real problem with trusting me: Either I'm not scum, and therefore my opinion is valid, or I am scum, and therefore they can't be scum. Didn't think that line of reasoning through, did you?
For one thing, no, I'm not attacking you. I'm asking you a goddam question, and I really, truly don't see where you're getting this whole "attack" angle out of it.
And when it comes to doing something productive, webadict, then how about you try it before prescribing it to me? All you've done thus far today is "HEY NOW NOBODY ATTACK THESE PEOPLE THERE WITH ME" bullshit and say that you're going to post more reasons later. Which you haven't.
So how about you explain instead of being a gigantic asshole about everything? Since this seems to be the "make webadict not like his normal self" game.
Nah I am just thinking from scum's perspective. I for one thought native was definably hiding something, I guess that scum thought so to.Interesting. When I think that someone's hiding something, my first thought is "they're scum, I better press them over it" not "they're the cop". This isn't valid reasoning unless you already know he can't be scum.
@LeafSnailSeems like a perfectly valid motivation... if you don't care about finding scum.
I was rereading over the pages looking for something to ask you about when I realized that my line of questioning was really complete shit.
But I didn't want to come out as a complete failure on day one... :'(
So I saw that most attacked person was Zrk2 and read up on him...
Oh, blow me. That's not what I was doing and you know it. I wanted to know why her vote was staying on me when she hadn't even said I was suspicious, not "OH NO VECTOR STOP VOTING ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE BETTER" and you know it. Identifying a possible scum move isn't trying to appear like anything.Ah, you're playing the "I'm not gonna vote for anyone or say anything useful" game?
And seriously, I might have missed it, but why is Web acting like this?
Oh, blow me. That's not what I was doing and you know it. I wanted to know why her vote was staying on me when she hadn't even said I was suspicious, not "OH NO VECTOR STOP VOTING ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE BETTER" and you know it. Identifying a possible scum move isn't trying to appear like anything.Ah, you're playing the "I'm not gonna vote for anyone or say anything useful" game?
And seriously, I might have missed it, but why is Web acting like this?
I'm sick with what may be the flu, so you're going to have to wait a bit longer.
Sorry.
Worst date ever? :P
And the hammer thing is crap. I missed your unvote; oh well. I'm not the mod, so it's not my call.I suppose the hammer thing was me being paranoid. Touche.
Feel free to defend her. However, I really want to know why you think she's town. Clearly you have reasons, since you're so vehement in your defense of her.
Right, but you could have answered the defending question. The point is that the answer wasn't going to be different. Was I planning on yelling something stupid? Does that seem like me? So, it's really a question of whether you think the question would have an exclusive answer from me: Like, "Why did you [action] so-and-so?" If I asked, "When did you vote so-and-so?" it will have precisely one true answer.Vector: That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it. I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him. Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?How about you make a real post? Because I'm not liking your style right now. Mostly because you're saying thing without showing things based on previous things where I'm not seeing things. Quotes or GTFO.
If so, you don't seem to have a next step. Do you not have any other suspects?
Why are you answering questions for Web?
On a side note, why AREN'T you answering questions that you could? Didn't... didn't I defend you in Paranormal? Oh, that's right. I did. You seem to be going after Vector for answering questions for me, despite her HAVING THE ANSWERS. You ALSO had the answers, didn't you? Hmm... Odd. Odd indeed.
You're going to either back off Vector, make an AIRTIGHT case, or I'm going to make sure you get lynched. In fact, you'll have to do the second option no matter what. Yeah, I'm a jerk. Deal with it.
If Joker asked you a question, I'm going to assume it's because he wanted to hear your answer on it. He didn't say "Vector, since when does Web defend people?"
Anyway, summary of case on Vector:Yes, but how can you ONLY see Vector as scummy? You act like nothing anyone else does could be scummy. I mean, you've got lurking running rampant, for starters: SaintDraze is hiding somewhere in the shadows, Leafsnail finally showed up, LNCP isn't bothering to be here. You've got passive McJoker over there not willing to come up with any suspects.
The claims (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2094725#msg2094725) of being rusty (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2103105#msg2103105) bugged me early on as an attempt to set up a safety net after a mislynch. Her early D1 picks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2099936#msg2099936) are a newbie and a lurker.
Day 2 Vector starts with a strong accusation, but is then passive (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2127629#msg2127629), passive (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2127972#msg2127972), passive (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2128658#msg2128658), passive (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.msg2129024#msg2129024). I am irked when people say they have suspects but don't share them.
It's not as strong as I'd like it to be, but Vector is my #1 pick right now and I have yet to see any convincing reason to change.
Jokerman: Why are you so interested in how you look in the eyes of others?
Oh hey there, Kettle. You're looking particularly black today.I have identified scum.
a. Haven't been kissing anyone or sharing food with anyone.
b. No swollen lymph nodes
c. Mild joint pain
d. No exhaustion problems, just mental shutdown
e. Nausea
f. Dry mouth
g. Sore throat mild
h. Mild chills, no big fever
=> light flu, not mono.
Well, almost perfect. Still, day 2 win for town is nice.
Ok, we're killing Vector. Now.
I knew LNCP was Town due to his opening post where he thought there were no power roles, meaning he was a simple Townie. Scum would have known since they had a Roleblocker and a Godfather. He was easy to find.
@LNCP: If you had been scum, you would have won greatest scum alive with that first post. Not only is that magnificent WIFOM, it's such a minor detail that it would never be noticed otherwise. It's the little details that count as excellent scum, and that's what I look for in town.
Yeah, I would've been extremely blindsided by you being scum. And that's saying something. Just remember it for future games: it's actually very effective. I managed to bluff my way out of a Detective Gambit from Telepath Josh by accounting for little things. He claimed he was a Detective with a "No Role" inspect. I wanted to "test" his role, so I said that was a lie. He eventually conceded he was a Telepath with a "Kill" result, whereupon I took that up and claimed Vigilante. I then later claimed Exterminator when backed into a corner, tried to recruit the Survivor, WIFOMed the rest of the Town using that failed attempt, and then won after getting lynched.
The key to being scum and extraordinary scum is that extraordinary scum account for the minor details of being Town. If you forget that you aren't supposed to know something (Paranormal 2 - Alexhans knows I'm the "Agent" without me telling him) or you overplay your hand (Vote Mafia - ToonyMan controls the Lovestruck Voter, but Zai locks his vote), things can go wrong. Always know everything, but show only what you should know. Conversely, as Town, seem like you know everything, and try and actually find it out later.
*Sad face*You were avenged!
Sorry for being the only casualty, everybody. :P
*Sad face*You were avenged!
Sorry for being the only casualty, everybody. :P
@LNCP: If you had been scum, you would have won greatest scum alive with that first post. Not only is that magnificent WIFOM, it's such a minor detail that it would never be noticed otherwise. It's the little details that count as excellent scum, and that's what I look for in town.Fascinating. Seems the King of the Mafia is well-named.
Yeah, I would've been extremely blindsided by you being scum. And that's saying something. Just remember it for future games: it's actually very effective. I managed to bluff my way out of a Detective Gambit from Telepath Josh by accounting for little things. He claimed he was a Detective with a "No Role" inspect. I wanted to "test" his role, so I said that was a lie. He eventually conceded he was a Telepath with a "Kill" result, whereupon I took that up and claimed Vigilante. I then later claimed Exterminator when backed into a corner, tried to recruit the Survivor, WIFOMed the rest of the Town using that failed attempt, and then won after getting lynched.
The key to being scum and extraordinary scum is that extraordinary scum account for the minor details of being Town. If you forget that you aren't supposed to know something (Paranormal 2 - Alexhans knows I'm the "Agent" without me telling him) or you overplay your hand (Vote Mafia - ToonyMan controls the Lovestruck Voter, but Zai locks his vote), things can go wrong. Always know everything, but show only what you should know. Conversely, as Town, seem like you know everything, and try and actually find it out later.
Shit. That was my first time as scum. Other than everything, what should I try to do better next time?Don't use bad arguments. You didn't seem like you actually believed those arguments, either. Ask yourself if you'd be making this same argument as Town.
Shit. That was my first time as scum. Other than everything, what should I try to do better next time?
Saint has drawn my attention for the above post. How many times must you be told that good scumhunting isn't a scumtell?!?!?!?!Don't do this. It transparently linked you to SaintDraze.
As well for a general sense of passivity.
? I'm not seeing it as anything other than hindsight biased. Sure, we see the connection now, but we didn't see it then. We should be looking for stuff we saw then, not stuff we see now.Saint has drawn my attention for the above post. How many times must you be told that good scumhunting isn't a scumtell?!?!?!?!Don't do this. It transparently linked you to SaintDraze.
As well for a general sense of passivity.
What if all your points have already been covered? Then your only choice is whether you want to be accused of parroting or being called out on not scumhunting.Well... Then it's tough.
Because, that happens to me a lot.
Welp I pretty much failed...
I am sorry I scum lost so soon pandar, the flavour was the shiznit!
? I'm not seeing it as anything other than hindsight biased. Sure, we see the connection now, but we didn't see it then. We should be looking for stuff we saw then, not stuff we see now.I guess I only saw it after Zrk2 was lynched. But it's still risky to do stuff like that - it means if you are lynched, your partner will have a much worse chance than they would otherwise.
The bussing was noticeable. It was a factor in voting him.? I'm not seeing it as anything other than hindsight biased. Sure, we see the connection now, but we didn't see it then. We should be looking for stuff we saw then, not stuff we see now.I guess I only saw it after Zrk2 was lynched. But it's still risky to do stuff like that - it means if you are lynched, your partner will have a much worse chance than they would otherwise.
SaintDraze's last minute bussing was way more noticable, though, so it got kindof overshadowed.