Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: Ninteen45 on April 10, 2011, 09:12:16 am
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Can we have an option toggle emmigration?
Such as a Dwarf taking a few of his things and leaving the map...
We could also have stuff like martial law which stops all immigration and emmigration, and Visits from families temporarily.
We are having raiders hang about, you know, why not emmigration...
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Although he hasn't made big announcements, some comments Toady has made in the past suggest he wants to eventually make populations more mobile than they currently are.
are you saying that dwarfs may emigrate to the sprawl if fortress housing prices are too high? More broadly, what are your plans for emigration during fortress mode in general?
If fortress housing prices are too high for everybody, they should be lowered. If they are too high just for few dwarves, then yeah, if an affected dwarf has some way/place to survive out in the world and nothing keeping them in the fort then they should leave. In general, a dwarf seeing better opportunity or lack of death elsewhere should go when practical -- some of your initial dwarves especially might feel more bound by loyalty, depending on the start scenario. A start scenario oriented around a temple or something might see many of the dwarves refusing to leave under any circumstances. Overall, the emigration mechanics shouldn't have them squirting out of your fort at the drop of a hat, since it would often be a hard journey with an uncertain future, but you should have to work a bit to keep them.
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Immigrate - People come in
Emmigrate - People leave.
I'd love to see emmigration.
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Immigrate - People come in
Emmigrate - People leave.
I thought that this was a common knowledge, and that even other-speakers would quickly catch on it, previous two posts clarify the meaning too?
I dont like this idea. One would not only have to worry about enemies, but also his prized level 20 armourer/weaponsmith leaving on a whim. I prefer the idea from another thread, an appointed agent noble which has the ability to "export" dorfs in addition to importing them at the player's demand.
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They wouldn't leave on a whim. If loads of people were dying, or there's no food or booze, and they all have to squat in a dark corridor to sleep, then they should leave.
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Yeah, currently, dwarves kind of get vomited into your often-less-than-merciful hands and have absolutely no recourse for whatever sadistic abuses you dish out on them. They are stuck there for life... and considering how ghosts work, they're actually stuck there for death, too.
If you're maniacally torturing your test subjects citizens, then they really should leave.
At the same time, Legendaries who are treated right shouldn't just pick up and leave because they saw a cockroach in an otherwise well-balanced fort, but Toady has already said exactly that in the quote I just mentioned.
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That would be awesome... you get a group of useless migrants and you don't give them a room, or a job, maybe even no food or booze. They should get fed up and leave.
Fact of the matter... I don't have the love in my heart for 30+ dwarfs (truely, my limit is around 20). While I would rather not kill them, I want them to go away. (and I only need so much military behind 1000+ green serated disks in traps :P)
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And then, some useless potash maker, who has plenty of time to socialize and has plenty of friends, decides he doesn't have enough work and emigrates. In the middle of a goblin ambush. Fun ensues. (though even if he is useless, his friends could convince him to stay here ??)
It's a good idea anyways.
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That would be absolute chaos.
I'm sure the whole "omniscient dwarves" thing should be fixed first though.
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Ideally, immigration could then be tied to the total amount of work done and waiting in the queue, so that people only immigrate when there are enough jobs for them to do.
Then, people emigrate when there aren't enough jobs for them.
That way, it's balanced based upon how much "room for them" there is in the fortress. It might basically just wind up where the game gives you enough dwarves that you stay at around 5 idlers at all times.
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One simple way to do it would be to have dwarves emigrate when they would otherwise go insane from unhappiness. That shouldn't mess with balance too badly; at that point you've already lost the dwarf in question anyway, and dwarves could get a bad thought from having a friend leave. It reduces the chance of spirals, since you just have the leaving dwarf giving his friend an unhappy thought rather than giving a bunch of random bytanders bad thoughts from being assaulted, but I don't think that's too big of a deal and it'd be partially counterbalanced by having the leaving dwarves take a few tools and a pet or two with them.
They should still go insane if they're blocked from emigrating, too, and ideally, if a particular dwarf leaving would cause enough of his friends to leave as well, they should wait and go together and bring a bunch of extra tools ant things, like a regular embark group would. Maybe in this case they actually have a list of items that they want to bring with them, and if they don't get them in a certain amount of time they go insane anyway? This would have to be sane, embark-themed stuff though - no shells, no obscure useless stones, nothing that the player can't find or make... but it should certainly be possible for them to force the player to choose between giving up their only anvil and having a riot on their hands, or pray that they can get enough cattle slaughtered and tanned in time to provide the required amount of leather.
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That way, it's balanced based upon how much "room for them" there is in the fortress. It might basically just wind up where the game gives you enough dwarves that you stay at around 5 idlers at all times.
This would be nice. It could be an extension of the Economy system, too. Dwarves may be psychotic and lazy, but if they don't feel like they're being utilized at all, they should leave.
And the whole idea of unhappy dwarves leaving would sure cut down on unnecessary tantrum spirals.
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Some people apparently hate "me too" posts, but I'm completely in favor of an implementation along the lines of where this thread is going. Anything that causes dwarves that are mistreated or just un-or-under-utilized to leave would be a nice addition, assuming it operates under some reasonable constraints.
So far we think candidates for leaving would include:
*Miserable dwarves.
*Insane dwarves. (maybe just certain types)
*Dwarves with no jobs for extended periods.
*In late game, dwarves that expect higher standards of living than your fort provides.
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I think emigration from the fort should only be influenced mildly by the dwarf's happiness. It should mostly be based on whether or not they have a room, enough food, work is available, etc. Otherwise, none of your dwarves go wacko and start attacking your dorfs/babbling/going on a hunger strike.
And we can't have that, now can we?
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That's why certain personality traits should make them more likely to stay...
But not the ones that make them not want to kill. Like you said, that just wouldn't be as fun.