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Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: Cheese on April 19, 2011, 01:11:27 pm

Title: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on April 19, 2011, 01:11:27 pm
So, let's discuss games developed by Paradox interactive. This is meant to carry over from the how did you last die thread. And I mean developed not produced by.

Europa Universalis 3.
Finally some more Paradox game bros!!!

EU3 is my favourite Paradox game. I've never played HOI or its derivates and I'm not so keen on Vicky 2, but things seem to be improving. It stills sems extremely complicated to me, though. Wouldn't you agree EU3 is the greatest?

By the way, the Byzantines are one of the best choices for building a global empire in my opinion. Loads of cores covering Greece and all of Asia Minor as well as parts of some Balkan states if I recall correctly.
I've played this one game (I've completed two as the Eastern Romans which is their proper name) where I owned al of Italy and Lombardia (from France), most of the Caribbean islands, Australasia (all of it), most of Africa apart from west Africa, all of Russia (reconquered from the Golden Horde), practically all of the Balkans except for northern Hungary and Croatia, modern-day Estonia, Prussia and Ireland.

What are you finest achievements in the game? Tell me all about them!

I prefer EU3, but Crusader kings is actually surprisingly fun. Can't wait for CK2. Vicky 2 seemed to excite the paradox community and caused lots of hype but after a month of release it died off a little. I've only owned HOI3 and didn't like it so much as the other games either, I dislike how restrictive it is, you can't do crazy ahistorical stuff like making a communist Britain.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: inteuniso on April 19, 2011, 01:41:22 pm
My favorite is EUIII simply because it is the best developed, but CK has the best idea. I can't wait for CKII either.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: mainiac on April 19, 2011, 01:51:04 pm
Paradox games are always good but always fall short of my expectations.  EU2 and HOI2 were great and EUIII became great on expansions, but I think that they're other games keep putting in things that don't work as planned.  And I'm waiting for the day when they finally overhaul their antique of a diplomacy system.

Fun EUII story.  So about a month after I discovered this game and started playing it obsessively, I was sitting in class, playing EUII while trying to ignore the professor rant about kids these days.  Finally she said "But you kids don't even know what Byzantium is" (in reference to the poem "Sailing to Byzantium" and it's basis in a classical education).  Hearing this I raised my hand and gave a five minute off the cuff summery of Eastern Roman empire history from 330 to 1452, highlighting the way it affected the emergence of modern western european culture.  See, I had spent the last month fascinated by this stuff after playing the game and getting a first taste of history.  I then turned back to my laptop and ignored her for the rest of class.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Simmura McCrea on April 19, 2011, 01:54:17 pm
I did something similar. Someone had a mug with a picture on it, with the word Liguria visible on it. They asked what it was, and I was able to tell them it's an Italian city just across the border from Nice, just due to EU3.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Gantolandon on April 19, 2011, 02:42:05 pm
Quote
Vicky 2 seemed to excite the paradox community and caused lots of hype but after a month of release it died off a little.

Probably it's because Vicky 2 was a huge letdown. I would compare it to HoI3.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Rakonas on April 19, 2011, 02:44:55 pm
The vast majority of my interest in history and internal understanding of history stems from paradox games. I've managed to remember almost every bit of history I've learned from such games while not so much of actual taught history.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Domenique on April 19, 2011, 02:53:08 pm
The vast majority of my interest in history and internal understanding of history stems from paradox games. I've managed to remember almost every bit of history I've learned from such games while not so much of actual taught history.

They're poor history teachers, i mean it goes quite wild after the game starts...
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Stworca on April 19, 2011, 02:55:18 pm
Hearts of Iron 2 is the single best game about WORLD War 2. Note the emphasis on World.
No matter how entertaining it is to control a single god-like commando in CoD, or a small army in RTS.. Shaping the entire world wins. I didn't like 3. Every campaign felt the same.

I liked Europa Universalis and Crusader kings, but they were mediocre with very few possibilities. After a few hours it gets repetitive.

Victoria is something i'm trying at the moment. So far i like it.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on April 19, 2011, 04:29:46 pm
Is it worth getting HoI 2 if I already have 3? I didn't like 3 that much because of how much it steers you but WW2 still interests me.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 19, 2011, 05:09:50 pm
Europa Universalis II was a good history teacher with all the historical events. EUIII is just a generic strategy game sandbox. It is pretty boring as vanilla, Magna Mundi totally saves it. I'm definitely going to buy Magna Mundi the game. Regarding their new games, I look forward to CK2, but it will likely fall short again, mainly offering sandbox enviroment and mods will provide the real content. Regardless, as Paradox is the only of its kind in making strategy games like that, they deserve all the monetary support they can get.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Simmura McCrea on April 19, 2011, 05:13:59 pm
Europa Universalis II was a good history teacher with all the historical events. EUIII is just a generic strategy game sandbox. It is pretty boring as vanilla, Magna Mundi totally saves it. I'm definitely going to buy Magna Mundi the game. Regarding their new games, I look forward to CK2, but it will likely fall short again, mainly offering sandbox enviroment and mods will provide the real content. Regardless, as Paradox is the only of its kind in making strategy games like that, they earn all the monetary support they can get.
Honestly, I disagree with the Magna Mundi statement. I realise I'm in the minority in this, but I really didn't like Magna Mundi, and I really enjoy vanilla. It's the game I've spent most time on, ever.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 19, 2011, 05:17:28 pm
Honestly, I disagree with the Magna Mundi statement. I realise I'm in the minority in this, but I really didn't like Magna Mundi, and I really enjoy vanilla. It's the game I've spent most time on, ever.

As a wild guess, you enjoy taking over the whole world, literally, when starting as a one province minor or the like? Well, to each their own. I find things like that boring, I want historically plausible game. I want there to be problems in maintaining huge empires, instead of it being a breeze to rule two continents. If I want to take over the world, I'll rather play MTW2. Oh wait, I play that too only with mods nowadays (Stainless Steel ftw). 

Yeah, Magna Mundi has some problems - like how ridicilously powerful Barbary Pirates are. Like if you have a huge land empire with one (recently conquered) port, how on Earth can a single pirate raid totally destroy your economy for years... Likewise pissing off the Emperor of HRE has silly effects, the negative effects of HRE displeasure should dilute with distance to it or something.

edit - I'm having a dyslexia day or something, loads of typos everywhere.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Simmura McCrea on April 19, 2011, 05:21:17 pm
No, I like the challenge of building up a country from a few provinces. I've never managed a world conquest, and doubt I will for some time. I really enjoyed playing as Georgia and spending 30-some years getting the upper hand on that little horde next door. I enjoyed turning the Papal States into the Middle East. I loved turning Munster into the America-spanning, China crushing monster-Ireland it became.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 19, 2011, 05:22:45 pm
No, I like the challenge of building up a country from a few provinces. I've never managed a world conquest, and doubt I will for some time. I really enjoyed playing as Georgia and spending 30-some years getting the upper hand on that little horde next door. I enjoyed turning the Papal States into the Middle East. I loved turning Munster into the America-spanning, China crushing monster-Ireland it became.

I think all those things are possible and 600% more fun in MM. :P
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Stworca on April 19, 2011, 05:23:02 pm
Is it worth getting HoI 2 if I already have 3? I didn't like 3 that much because of how much it steers you but WW2 still interests me.

Opinions may differ, but i'd say yes. However "yes" ONLY if you get Doomsday + Armageddon, and not the vanilla. Possibly with a mod called DAIM. You're in for some epic worldshaping and history being re-written.
The Paradox AI is very good mind you, much better than in 3, but still has some holes. DAIM turns it into something more.. worthy.

Some people love HoI3 though, and one should respect that too.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Virex on April 19, 2011, 05:23:47 pm
Taking over the world with a one-province minor? Well, I guess I'm lucky not to be too good a player, because I like the constant strugle of bringing a small country to a nominal force, but I don't feel like things get too easy over time. On the other hand, I have a strange preference for muslim and far-eastern minors, so perhaps that makes a difference.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 19, 2011, 05:24:54 pm

Opinions may differ, but i'd say yes. However "yes" ONLY if you get Doomsday + Armageddon, and not the vanilla. Possibly with a mod called DAIM. You're in for some epic worldshaping and history being re-written.
The Paradox AI is very good mind you, much better than in 3, but still has some holes. DAIM turns it into something more.. worthy.

Some people love HoI3 though, and one should respect that too.

How about Arsenal of Democracy and the Darkest Hour? I haven't played them, but a friend is fapping to the Darkest Hour. I think HOI3 had potential, but it was too big to chew at one bite for Paradox. I like the idea of subordinate AIs, I'd like it even in Europa Universalis, so I could, say, let AI handle colonial warfare. Too bad it didn't work out too good.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Simmura McCrea on April 19, 2011, 05:25:45 pm
No, I like the challenge of building up a country from a few provinces. I've never managed a world conquest, and doubt I will for some time. I really enjoyed playing as Georgia and spending 30-some years getting the upper hand on that little horde next door. I enjoyed turning the Papal States into the Middle East. I loved turning Munster into the America-spanning, China crushing monster-Ireland it became.

I think all those things are possible and 600% more fun in MM. :P
I tried it, as Portugal, which should, theoretically, be okay. Did horribly. There's too much to look after, too much added with not enough guides on what the fuck everything does. I don't want to have to deal with some religious minority getting a bit pissy while my tiny army is ganking an army 3 times its size. I don't want to have to deal with all that crap. I want a fun sandbox, not a perfect simulator.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: IHateOutside on April 19, 2011, 05:27:35 pm
One thing to bear in mind with HoI2 is the multiple versions (they licensed the engine out to teams) available.

You have stock HoI2 Doomsday + Armageddon, Arsenal of Democracy and Darkest Hour, plus the fan made expansion Iron Cross.
Its late here and I need to go to sleep, but If no-one has explained by the time I have access to my PC again, I will elaborate.

Also, for those new to Paradox Interactive : PATCH YOUR GAMES.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 19, 2011, 05:31:29 pm

I tried it, as Portugal, which should, theoretically, be okay. Did horribly. There's too much to look after, too much added with not enough guides on what the fuck everything does. I don't want to have to deal with some religious minority getting a bit pissy while my tiny army is ganking an army 3 times its size. I don't want to have to deal with all that crap. I want a fun sandbox, not a perfect simulator.

Shows difference in taste, I guess. I find EUIII boring because there is so little to do, aside from the wars. You just let the time flow and occasionally build something. Most of the time there is just nothing happening and all the events are super generic. I got so used to the historical excellence of EU2 that was a huge disappointment. True, the time-related events of EU2 were silly when the actual situation in the game was often a lot different than the real history. I just found MM to fill that gap, providing plausible historical content instead of...emptiness of vanilla, while not running on rails regarding the events like EU2. More power to you if you like EU3 as it is though, means you got your moneys worth straight from the store. It doesn't take anything away from me if you like vanilla,  just voicing my opinion.

Anyway, MM has changed a lot between different versions and the current one is the final one with good documentation. So if you tried MM like, two years ago, it is entirely different beast now.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Simmura McCrea on April 19, 2011, 05:32:42 pm
It was last last year, IIRC. Pre-DW. But yeah, this is all taste difference.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Toady Two on April 19, 2011, 05:39:21 pm
Is anyone else considering picking up Darkest Hour?

I'm an avid Eu3 and Magna Mundi player. I haven't tried Hearts of Iron but the WW1 scenario in Darkest Hour makes me want to skip the basic game and play the mod spinoff.

I might be difficult to get a hang of things just like playing MM without trying vanilla EU3 first. I've also heard there are quite a few bugs in the initial release and I think I'll wait for a patch to show up before I buy.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Stworca on April 19, 2011, 05:49:20 pm

How about Arsenal of Democracy and the Darkest Hour? I haven't played them, but a friend is fapping to the Darkest Hour. I think HOI3 had potential, but it was too big to chew at one bite for Paradox. I like the idea of subordinate AIs, I'd like it even in Europa Universalis, so I could, say, let AI handle colonial warfare. Too bad it didn't work out too good.

To be honest i haven't even HEARD about either AoD or Darkest Hour  :P
I was however more than happy with Doomsday Armageddon. Played and still playing the **** out of it!

It has a problem though. The AI never accepts peace unless you either : Annex the entire country OR it's an event based peace. While the top players are understandable to never stand down, all the others? Let's assume you've taken 54 out of 59 provinces of country X, and offer it a deal : We only want ONE province! Hell, a white peace even. Decline. Decline. Decline. Decline.. Over and over.
DAIM is a must.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Il Palazzo on April 19, 2011, 06:19:37 pm
Some people love HoI3 though, and one should respect that too.
That'd be me and that other guy from Burkina Faso.

Seriously, I really loved the HQ AI system that they implemented. Finally there was no need for micromanaging the armies. Finally you could feel like you're running a country, not being some sort of a hivemind.

As for EU3, my opinion on it somewhat similar to that of Majestic7 - I totally hated the scripted historical events of previous installments of the series, and was all hyped up about EU3 doing away with (most) of those. And when I finally played it, it proved to be simply boring. Gave it away before having a chance to try Magna Mundi, so I can't really tell how much does that improve the overall experience.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 19, 2011, 06:37:45 pm

Seriously, I really loved the HQ AI system that they implemented. Finally there was no need for micromanaging the armies. Finally you could feel like you're running a country, not being some sort of a hivemind.


It feels good on paper, however... I was playing Japan, fighting an awesome and interesting land war in China. I was building fleet at the same time and I had put it under AI. I was planning to wait aggression against the Allies till '42 or so. Well, USA declares war on me late '41. I have a good, advanced fleet, so no worries. I just give some objectives to the HQ. What does the AI do? It splits my fleet into tiny task forces, like, sending battleships and carriers on the sea ALONE without escorts. My whole fleet gets defeated in detail, because US Navy uses real battle groups while my idiot AI Admiral thinks it is a good idea for every ship play a lone rider. Raaaaaaage.

Maybe the sub-AI has improved since, I don't know. I plan to give HOI3 a spin after the second expansion comes out and has all the bugs ironed out.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Ampersand on April 19, 2011, 09:11:56 pm
I've got Darkest Hour. It uses Hearts on Iron 2 as a base, and has an expanded timeframe to cover two separate campaigns, for the first and second World War. You can't currently start with World War One and play straight through World War Two as far as I could tell, as there is no, 'Grand Campaign' option that I could see, but I could be mistaken on that regard.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: mainiac on April 19, 2011, 11:01:47 pm
I'm not much of a fan of the Mangi Mundi mod.  The KISS principle means nothing to those people.  Maybe the game will be better but my experience with darkest hour has me squemish.  Darkest Hour sorely needed more playtesting.  I still like it and I think it made some excellent changes, but it feels clunky due to various mistakes.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Desdichado on April 20, 2011, 04:29:21 am
Europa Universalis II was a good history teacher with all the historical events.

Not really. In the end, a gamer is left with a few more keywords to blurt out like "Council of Trent!" but is far from understanding the actual history. That comes from studying primary sources, the writings and other evidence left by people from that era. A game is just a game, and surrenders to fun gameplay 95% of the time.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on April 20, 2011, 04:33:00 am
I haven't tried Magni Mundi so far but I love EU3. I do notice how there are a lot of times where you are just waiting for something to happen but I still find it quite fun. I already have an interest in history but I find EU3 gives me inspiration to look stuff up, though it doesn't teach me all that much.

As for HOI2, being able to play through the cold war sounds quite awesome. HOI3 has kept bugging out on me for the past month but I've finally tamed it, so I might try a campaign as Britain. Triple continent war sounds Fun.

So, has anybody accomplished anything particularly amazing in their Paradox games?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Simmura McCrea on April 20, 2011, 04:39:30 am
In all honesty, by the end of it, I was quite disappointed with the outcome. It was hella fun, but if I'd tried harder, I could've stopped Brabant and Scotland from getting Canada, I could've expanded further into Mexico/South America and I could've taken more of China.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on April 20, 2011, 04:52:18 am
I wonder what an ethnic Irish-Asian looks like.

How did you manage to stop England and co. gobbling you and the rest of Ireland up?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Simmura McCrea on April 20, 2011, 04:54:22 am
Short and drunk, probably.

Actually, I stayed Munster for quite some time. I owned most of the US before I sailed over and took the rest of Ireland from them. It was just sheer luck that they didn't swallow me up before that.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on April 20, 2011, 06:25:37 am
Why do generals die off so early? They serve for about 5 years and then decide to die.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: RF on April 20, 2011, 06:27:52 am
Why do generals die off so early? They serve for about 5 years and then decide to die.

They're like orcs. You make them from mushrooms and then send them out to battle.

It's the only explanation for how you can make so many!
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: inteuniso on April 20, 2011, 07:50:06 am
Short and drunk, probably.

Actually, I stayed Munster for quite some time. I owned most of the US before I sailed over and took the rest of Ireland from them. It was just sheer luck that they didn't swallow me up before that.

Pretty sure you just described Vietnamese (my friend has reported that Vietnamese beer is the equivalent of drinking rubbing alcohol)
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on April 20, 2011, 09:03:34 am
Just tried to wage war with Bohemia. It turns out that even though they are no longer the HRE, they can still field huge armies, plus they can bring little Aquelia's doomstacks and wurtemmburg's pesky little armies to bear. They basically just took their huge infantry stacks and assaulted all of my forts, so they could take half the country within 2 months.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Brons on April 20, 2011, 09:03:58 am
Is it worth getting HoI 2 if I already have 3? I didn't like 3 that much because of how much it steers you but WW2 still interests me.
To be honest I liked HoI2 with the expansions way more than the base of HoI3. I'm not sure how HoI3 is today but HoI2 Complete is fairly cheap and a lot of fun.

I love PI games and I own almost all of the games they developed themselves. One thing that pisses me off is the fact that you need expansion for each game to be really great. Their base games suck most of the times. It's almost like it's a strategy: remove some great features and content from your base game to sell it for $20 a few months later.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: mainiac on April 20, 2011, 09:36:54 am
I wonder what an ethnic Irish-Asian looks like.

Judging from a sample size of 1, damn sexy and in the arms of another guy by day 3 of college.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 20, 2011, 09:41:12 am
Not really. In the end, a gamer is left with a few more keywords to blurt out like "Council of Trent!" but is far from understanding the actual history. That comes from studying primary sources, the writings and other evidence left by people from that era. A game is just a game, and surrenders to fun gameplay 95% of the time.

You need to get someone interested in history first, before he is willing to even consider anything like that. All good teachers are those, who make the taught subject fun. That is what EUII did. Besides, you can hardly call studying primary sources something most people do, heh. Not even basic university-level history courses do that.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 20, 2011, 09:43:03 am

I love PI games and I own almost all of the games they developed themselves. One thing that pisses me off is the fact that you need expansion for each game to be really great. Their base games suck most of the times. It's almost like it's a strategy: remove some great features and content from your base game to sell it for $20 a few months later.

Yes, unfortunately the smart way to buy Paradox games is 3+ years after release, when there is a Complete pack out with the main game and expansions all in one. Especially as they are always horribly buggy for a year after release, at least.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: RedKing on April 20, 2011, 09:44:34 am
I must be one of those rare breed that actually enjoys Victoria II. I felt like it fixed a lot of issues from the first one, although the more indirect control over the economy makes economic management a nightmare at times (although this is not necessarily unrealistic). The use of "Artisans" in particular helps alleviate the problems you find when world industrial production hasn't caught up to your plans (like supplying artillery). It would be tremendously useful in Grand Campaign games, where you don't have that prime mover in England to create machine parts for the rest of the world. Most of my imported Vicky: Rev games wind up very technologically stagnant because nobody starts to industrialize for a long time. Unfortunately, there's still no working converter in place yet.  :(

I've been playing around with HoI3, but haven't actually gotten into a real war yet. I had a game going as Australia that's into 1940, but I abandoned it as it was a bit boring. I have two games, Germany and Japan, that are into 1937 but haven't yet gone to war. The level of detail is a bit staggering, as is having to deal with real logistics issues now instead of abstracted "depots".

One of the odd things is that I frequently see people on the Paradox forums complain that HoI3 is less concerned with geopolitics than HoI2, which seems completely backwards to me. The way that intelligence/diplomacy works in HoI3 allows a ton more "behind the scenes" kind of manuevers. In my own Japan game, I noticed that the Octobrist party (Social Conservative) actually still had a fair amount of clout in the Soviet Union, so I began pumping spies into the USSR to support it (since Japan is still under the Seiyukai). Within a few months, intel shows that the popularity of the Communist Party has fragmented, with the Trotskyites and Leninists having nearly 20% each, and the Octobrists at 25%, while the Communists have only about 29%. I'm jazzed at the prospect of de-Communizing the Soviets to reduce the specter of a Soviet threat in Manchuria.

Fomenting a foreign-supported White Counter-revolution in the USSR? That's something I never could do in HoI2.  :P


And I have some mad love for Crusader Kings, warts and all. I'm currently working on bringing one of the would-be successors to the old CK Wiki up to snuff. The more I dig into the game mechanics, the more I fall in love with this game.  :D


EU3 took me a while to warm up to, but with each add-on expansion I've gotten to liking it more. Still haven't gotten Heir to the Throne or Divine Wind, partly because the converters I was working with didn't support them yet. And I have a serious thing about playing Grand Campaign games.

The only Paradox title I've been really disappointed with was EU: Rome. I mean, seriously? What the hell was that all about? It felt about as related to the EU franchise as SimCity: Societies did to SimCity.



Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 20, 2011, 09:47:33 am
I love CK too, maybe I should try it again with some mod after all these years. Hmm, I think EU Rome was clearly part of the Paradox history games, it was just...sort of a bastard. It was thrown on the street and given very little support, even though there was that one expansion. They just failed completely with how barbarians were represented and the game world was kind of static. It turned too soon into two-three giant blobs eating everything. The character system was excellent - I hope to see refined version of it in CK2 - but there should have been more internal politics to make the major empires far less stable.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: RedKing on April 20, 2011, 09:52:28 am
Really?? I thought the character system in EU: Rome was garbage. There was no sense of lineage or "major families" or anything, beyond a field in the cahracter info that stated what family they belonged to. It felt totally random.

Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 20, 2011, 10:09:59 am
Really?? I thought the character system in EU: Rome was garbage. There was no sense of lineage or "major families" or anything, beyond a field in the cahracter info that stated what family they belonged to. It felt totally random.

Oh I didn't mean family system, but the way characters gained traits and had ambitions... how these ambitions affected their loyalty, career and abilities. I thought that was neat. True, the family side of the system was pretty weak, but definitely something to build on and not that different from CK.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Virex on April 20, 2011, 05:25:39 pm
So I just installed Magna Mundi. Am I supposed to be at 0 stability and bleeding cash through every orifice (even at a quarter of my force limits) for most of the early game?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 20, 2011, 05:37:51 pm
Depends on who you are playing. Maintaining standing army is very expensive in MM, you are supposed to disband large armies when you don't need them. (Since that is how it was historically.) Normal stability in MM is 0, yes, not +3 like in vanilla. Positive stability means a prosperous time and +3 is a legendary golden age. There are lots of events tied to the stability score.

Oh and don't be afraid to mint money if you need it.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Virex on April 20, 2011, 05:53:35 pm
How many divisions should I keep around, roughly speaking? I'm playing as Yemen, having 2 divisions on Socrota and 2 on the main land, as well as a total of 4 ships. I could disband my transports probably, but I'm afraid that disbanding any of my land units will mean I won't be able to respond to revolutions.


Edit: Started a new game, again as Yemen. Got rid of my army and navy and sold Socotra to Adal (for 0 gold.... It was a liability and I don't know if I could've afforded keeping it around). I'm not entirely sure what to do now though. going for a merchant-based economy seems too dangerous, with all the stability hits and negative events that I'd get for reforming my policies and trying to get the nomads to settle has the same problem. On the other hand, Yemen is just too poor to rely on taxes alone. I'm only getting 20 gold a year right now...
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Stworca on April 20, 2011, 05:56:18 pm
Are the +3 stability events in MM similiar to CK Deus Vault ones? I.E. mostly BAD? ("pay gold or lose a point of stability".. yes.. amazing)

The AI in CK is probably the worst one yet from Paradox. DOW are ridiculous. Armies march through the entire map to finally lose on some deserted land due to attrition. No king is able to hold his dominion for longer than fifty years. It's also too easy to "start", unless you're bordered with super-powerful Muslims.
Once you turn your one province village into a kingdom, the boring part of the game starts.

I question the person who talked about "game mechanics" to please tell me what does he mean? There are nearly none. The wiki for the game can be closed on five pages.

I DID like the heritage systems however and how technology was spreading.

It's the complete opposite of Victoria series. Plain and simple.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 20, 2011, 06:06:33 pm
How many divisions should I keep around, roughly speaking? I'm playing as Yemen, having 2 divisions on Socrota and 2 on the main land, as well as a total of 4 ships. I could disband my transports probably, but I'm afraid that disbanding any of my land units will mean I won't be able to respond to revolutions.

Well, I've never played Yemen (though I once had a long game as Oman), but rebel size depends on the tax income of the province, IIRC. So if you have only poor provinces, they will spawn very few rebels, even if the trade value of the province is high. Since tax value portrays population etc. I imagine you could do with two infantry and one cavalry in one army. Maybe even just two infantry, since cavalry upkeep is higher. One cavalry might do too with a shock general, since Muslims get excellent cavalry. You can ship the army around with those transports, disband the ones you don't need. The rebels will take lots of attrition besieging your provinces anyway, since they are mostly desert. Do you plan to colonize eastern Africa or try to unite Arabia or what?

Stworca, did you play CK or CK: DV? It is much better with the expansion. Expansion adds more character mechanics and events, those are the best part of the game. Yes, the technology spread is fun, I wish other Paradox games worked like that too. Armies running all around Europe was definitely stupid, DV fixes that somewhat.

edit - Some +3 stability events require you to do something to upkeep the high stability, yes, since it is exceptional situation. It isn't always just money. However, there are lots of positive events that stem from high stability, like great persons appearing or bonus to tech research etc. Negative stability has some good aspects too; it increases colonists spawning. So for colonial nations it can be good to have the realm in constant state of internal strife under certain conditions, heh.

edit2- Heh, answering to your edit with my edit... You could try colonizing eastern Africa, barging into the Indian/Indonesian markets for spice trade (there are events favoring Muslims for that untill the Portuguese barge in), try to unite Arabia with fire and sword or something else and completely different. Reforming is painful in the short term, but pays off the long term. 
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Virex on April 20, 2011, 06:17:36 pm
In vanilla I would usualy take most of eastern Africa early (Mutapa has some good gold mines) and then expand northwards, maybe with some vassals or annexations in India. In MM that doesn't seem to be an option because last time I tried to attack Ethopia the attrition was murdering my army so fast I was at 0 reserves for a decade after...


Also, wouldn't having only 1 cavalry unit mean you'd get a huge tax hit for relying too much on cavalry?


Also, eastern Africa is largely controlled by Mutapa and I think Swahili or Mozambique. Since they're both quite large and oversea from Yemen, I doubt I'd be able to take them on so easily.


Edit 3: Would getting rid of my least productive provinces to get the specialist trader bonus be worth it?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 20, 2011, 06:29:27 pm
Well, taking over Mecca would grant you nice bonuses, though you might be targeted by the Mameluks then. Playing a small poor Arab realm is not exact an easy start, you know. :P I think spice trade would be the easiest way to make money. I don't remember/know what kind of sliders and values Yemen has, but I think Oman has pretty good mercantile setup at the start for getting rich from trade. That in turn will give the funds for colonial expansion or military ambitions. One way to beat those African tribals is to hoard money from trade, then hire a big bunch of mercs and use them as fodder in a colonial grabbing war. Just enough to get access to empty provinces to colonize.

Yes, the tax hit is nasty, but if you get most of your money from trade anyway, it might be worth it. I don't know, depends. Perhaps one infantry and one cavalry is the most cost-effective setup. Look out for ambitious neighbours, though. Remember that coastal provinces help in trading, so even worthless coastal provinces can be useful. Other than that... I don't know, experiment? :P Usually giving up cores is not a good thing, but if you can rake more money that way... Then you'll have casus belli ready for some land-grabbing.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Virex on April 20, 2011, 06:38:20 pm
I don't think attacking Hedjaz is an option, considering they're allied with the Mamelukes if I recall correctly. Colonization would require me to focus on getting Quest for the New World, since there's nothing revealed that isn't already occupied (unless you consider the current owners "natives" and colonization "liberal use of force"). Spice trade is an option. Would it be an idea to switch out one of my nations ideas for a more trade-centered idea? Last time I tried that, I got hit hard by destabilizing and money-sucking events (to the point where I had 300 gold in loans for a country that makes 20 gold a year).


I know a small poor Arab country isn't supposed to be easy, but I just didn't take into account that early expansion would be impossible (Yemen apparently doesn't have the manpower to beat a few savages with sticks...), because if you can conquer some parts of east Africa early, you can get quite a comfortable game going...
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 20, 2011, 06:47:22 pm
Hehe, there are lots of good reasons why the Arab realms didn't historically conquer large swathes of eastern Africa. It was easier to just trade with the locals, since projecting force over there with little manpower was very difficult. Yes, taking over Mecca requires you to be a vulture or take it as a long-term plan after getting money from somewhere. You could try preying on your small neighbours, but they have crappy provinces too. Changing ideas takes you to the crap chute, yes... so be sure it is worth it if you do it. Taking over the trade center on an island on the eastern African coast might be a good expansion step. (Zanzibar? Can't remember.) Owning a trade center gives nice benefits, at least after you core it. Remember that in MM, you can take over provinces without a peace treaty if your opponent is stubborn. It requires occupying the province for years and years (don't know what the mean time to happen is) and you get an event granting the ownership to you.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Rakonas on April 20, 2011, 07:22:10 pm
Not really. In the end, a gamer is left with a few more keywords to blurt out like "Council of Trent!" but is far from understanding the actual history. That comes from studying primary sources, the writings and other evidence left by people from that era. A game is just a game, and surrenders to fun gameplay 95% of the time.

You need to get someone interested in history first, before he is willing to even consider anything like that. All good teachers are those, who make the taught subject fun. That is what EUII did. Besides, you can hardly call studying primary sources something most people do, heh. Not even basic university-level history courses do that.
This, the majority of people don't really have access to things that make them interested in history. It's video games that have always given me an interest in history. Simply the ability to see things from the point of view of any one historical group, whether it be the Capet dynasty, the trading nation of Oman, industrializing America, and so forth is essential a great teacher of history. Playing Eu2, and even Eu3 to an extent, taught me about underlying trends and key events, like the protestant reformation, European contact, imperialism, and most importantly why all these things were done with how the leaders felt about the events unfolding.
On an unarguable note, Paradox games are the best teachers of geography there are.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Ampersand on April 20, 2011, 08:38:51 pm
I have to agree. It is because of EU3 and Magna Mundi that I now know and understand who Jan Hus and John Wycliffe were. They didn't have to teach me exactly, they merely gave me the keywords, to inform me that there was something that I didn't know, and this was enough to make me want to know.

This tactic is actually employed in many games; Mass Effect is one of them, though it includes an in game encyclopedia.

The Extra Credits show on The Escapist actually have a pretty good episode on this sort of thing, called Tangential Learning. This effect does not only work, it is actually fairly well researched.

The next step would be integrating URL links directly into a videogame like EU3 such that any time a keyword or name pops up, you can jump directly to Wikipedia and read about it at your leisure.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: sonerohi on April 20, 2011, 09:09:22 pm
Stronghold 2 had something like that. When you viewed tutorials and hints and such, words would be bolded here and there, and investigation would lead to an in game dictionary, with vignettes and reference lists. I love M2TW because of how fun it is to try and mimic your real nation. I've spent eons studying different cultures and city states and such from feudal Europe in order to play my games thematically. EU3 and MM aren't my personal favorite, but they are definitely appreciated and they obviously work with us at least  :D.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: mainiac on April 21, 2011, 12:57:48 am
Vicky 2 is IMHO about one major change away from being balanced.  The economy is inherently imbalanced, meaning   that money tends to pool in rich pops and countries while large parts of the world suffer from inadequate liquidity (i.e. the depression of 1836.)  It's a very unstable situation and there are plenty of ways stability could have been introduced: currency exchange stabilization, a working finance system, flexible consumer demand or even just factories not buying inputs for sea-dumping (which would allow for comparative advantage to keep them profitable).  It seems to me like the team never consulted with an economist because then they would have realized that they were creating a very unstable equilibrium.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Majestic7 on April 21, 2011, 04:13:17 am
1.3 is much better in Vic2 than 1.2, but the economical balance is still screwed. I think it is due to three major factors. First, supply and demand doesn't work - for example, capitalists keep building canned food factories for some reason and ignore luxury clothes. Second, the purchase priorities are all wrong, population goes first. So if you have available X units of commodity Y and need a fraction of it to create a new military unit, the chances are the unit never gets built because your civilian population gets first pick on the market. Third, global buying order goes according to prestige, nothing else counts. That means a country with low prestige have to wait a loooong looooong time to buy, say, machine parts for a new factory, even if they are swimming in cash (and realistically could offer to pay 500% the normal price for those parts in this situation). The second and third thing are especially what keeps poor countries poor.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Mr.Person on April 21, 2011, 06:10:51 am
Vicky 2 is IMHO about one major change away from being balanced.  The economy is inherently imbalanced, meaning   that money tends to pool in rich pops and countries while large parts of the world suffer from inadequate liquidity (i.e. the depression of 1836.)  It's a very unstable situation and there are plenty of ways stability could have been introduced: currency exchange stabilization, a working finance system, flexible consumer demand or even just factories not buying inputs for sea-dumping (which would allow for comparative advantage to keep them profitable).  It seems to me like the team never consulted with an economist because then they would have realized that they were creating a very unstable equilibrium.

I'm not trying to defend Paradox here, but I'm pretty sure that was all by design. Majestic7's problems sound more like bugs. The issues you point out all seem intentional. I mean, think about it. It's simulating the world of the 19th and early 20th centuries. The economies of those days were absurdly unstable and fairly limited in nature. It sounds like the got it about right if you ask me.

Now, that being said, it might not make for a good game. If that's the case, then yes, Paradox probably should of done a better job. I'm just saying that if Paradox is very in-depthly simulating a shitty economic system, you can't turn around and berate them when the economies of the world are shit.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Brons on April 21, 2011, 08:09:29 am
You're right but it's by design but the design just sucks. Also, it's not very historical. Another problem is that prices are skewy and don't work like they should. Prices fluctuate inside a certain bandwidth. This means that a product with 10 times more supply than demand might still be profitable because there is a minimum price, not driving out producers. Also, pops don't look at the price at all when buying stuff. They just look if they can afford it, not if it's reasonable. So instead of not buying meat because it's crazy expensive (while wheat is cheap) they just buy it at every price, as long as they have the money. It's like if pizza's are $5000 a piece but you want one so you buy it anyway.

PI tried to build a 'free' market for goods but failed because they put in some severely limiting mechanisms. I'm not sure Victoria 2 can be fixed. Although I thought that about Victoria 1 too and they did a decent job.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: mainiac on April 21, 2011, 10:23:31 am
Now, that being said, it might not make for a good game. If that's the case, then yes, Paradox probably should of done a better job. I'm just saying that if Paradox is very in-depthly simulating a shitty economic system, you can't turn around and berate them when the economies of the world are shit.

While it's true that the economy of the Victorian era was deeply broken, it was broken in a different way then the game portrays.  While it's true that the big dogs pulled a lot of shenanigans in this era, there is such a thing as an equilibrium.  In Vicky 2 if a country can't export because say it's prestige is too low, it's population starves because it lacks the money to buy either foreign or domestic foodstuffs.  In the real world, if a country isn't exporting, it's going to stop importing stuff because the exchange rate is going to make imports prohibitively expensive.  Additionally, while it's possible for a country to not have enough gold to keep foreign creditors placated and cause a panic, it shouldn't experience a Vicky2 style depression of 1836.  If there isn't enough gold for the domestic market to function, prices would drop (well sorta*) until you reach a new price level where the amount of gold would be sufficient.

* This point is more complicated what with sticky prices and wages and whatnot but two things here.  First, they were less sticky in the 19th century.  And secondly, paper money would probably come to the rescue, with banks and governments being able to issue new paper until there is enough for the market to function.  Again, foreign investors wouldn't be reassured but the domestic market would function with there being enough currency for transactions.

Plus there's sea dumping which is absolutely immersion breaking.  I can understand that paradox didn't want to bother with a huge number of stockpiles.  But factories go into the red buying inputs for outputs they are just going to throw away anyway.  Nobody in the 19th century ever entertained such a silly thought.  And it happens even if you are playing a planned economy.  In Vicky 1 you were communist even if you were capitalist.  In Vicky 2 you are capitalist even if you are communist.

But still, I think that there is a lot of promise in Vicky 2.  With the PDM mod the world economy works, albeit at the price of making things a bit easy.  But I believe that with about 1 major reform to the way that money flows through the world economy, the system would work.

Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Toady Two on April 21, 2011, 10:54:05 am
Here is a screen from my latest Magna Mundi ultimate game as Bavaria. The game sofar can be summarizedd by two words "Dat Austria".

(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596935194090511546/3168270572DF7AA4AFA081B4538F4A9697E8A13E/)

The reformation has kicked and Bohemia is the leader of the protestants in the Empire. Austria is Emperor and leads a personal Union with defender of the catholic faith Spain. I'm lucky to be on their side in the religious turmoil but my ambition is to become emperor which will  be impossible to pull off without getting on the bad side of Austria-Hungary. Heck, even I were to control the Imperial Demense of Burgundy and Netherlands I'm not sure if I could take on the BBW(Big Bad White).

As you can see the other neighboring superpower France is in shambles after a over 20 year face off with the Emperor and allies. I hoped to use my espionage National Idea and spies to destabilize but alas they stayed at +3 stab throughout the massive conflict.

Ottomans are beign very timid this game. They were even allied with the Emperor for a moment. I'm rooting for them to send an incursion into the balkans while the reformation is underway so that Austria will have more important matters to attend to than my violations of Imperial Law :) .
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Brons on April 21, 2011, 12:02:11 pm
Poland scares me. And what has the Ottoman Empire been doing? By this time they usually have way more.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on April 21, 2011, 12:41:21 pm
Ah man, in my game Austria is a tiny shell of what it once was that keeps having wars with nations it's been forced to release by big huge Bohemia, which of course, hates my guts for stealing the HRE from it and for turning protestant to form Prussia. How come you are so small? Is MM really that game-changing?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Toady Two on April 21, 2011, 12:51:03 pm
Poland is ... well ... Poland. Like it's historical counterpart it got attacked from all sides by powerful aggressors(Teutons , Russia, Bohemia and quite a few allied HRE states(including me as Bavaria)) and is constantly losing territory.

I haven't seen such peaceful Ottomans ever. They only expand into the Middle East and let Spain occupy the Holy Land without problem.

This is all bad for me as there is no country that could possibly put a hold on Mega - Austria so my only safe means of expansion is Core creeping one province at a time via the spy mission.

By MM standards I am playing hyper aggressive as I have expanded by 5 HRE provinces in a century 2 of which I have claimed unlawfully(no core). MM halves your infamy limit and has nasty random events that can make you become the badboy if you linger too close to the limit. To play safe it is advised to never go over 50% infamy and never over 8 points.

Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Stworca on April 21, 2011, 03:15:01 pm
The Ottomans may be playing peacefully to avoid historical Battle for Vienn  ;)

The weirdest game i've had in EU was with the small 1 province "powers" constantly wiping each other out, gaining insane "Bad boy" scores.
Myself, playing as England, allied with Castille and together we advanced up to today's Ukraine before i lost interest
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Toady Two on April 21, 2011, 03:59:32 pm
That the best thing about Magna Mundi is that as long as you don't play an overpowered country and give yourself ambitious goal it can stay interesting throughout the entire timeline. There will be enemies that are stronger then you and facing them off i gives the game better dynamic. In vanilla EU3 you would become an unstoppable superpower within the first 200 years if you played decently with a medium power and after that its just whether you want to screw around and conquer some AI nations that can't muster a proper defense. 
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on April 21, 2011, 04:18:45 pm
Would it be better to get HoI2 first or go straight for AoD?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: IHateOutside on April 21, 2011, 04:41:07 pm
Would it be better to get HoI2 first or go straight for AoD?

IMO, you'd be better off saving money and going straight for AoD.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Rakonas on April 21, 2011, 08:14:38 pm
Would it be better to get HoI2 first or go straight for AoD?

IMO, you'd be better off saving money and going straight for AoD.
Definitely, AoD is basically HoI2 with all expansions and then some.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Mr.Person on April 22, 2011, 02:02:41 am
Now, that being said, it might not make for a good game. If that's the case, then yes, Paradox probably should of done a better job. I'm just saying that if Paradox is very in-depthly simulating a shitty economic system, you can't turn around and berate them when the economies of the world are shit.

While it's true that the economy of the Victorian era was deeply broken, it was broken in a different way then the game portrays.  While it's true that the big dogs pulled a lot of shenanigans in this era, there is such a thing as an equilibrium.  In Vicky 2 if a country can't export because say it's prestige is too low, it's population starves because it lacks the money to buy either foreign or domestic foodstuffs.  In the real world, if a country isn't exporting, it's going to stop importing stuff because the exchange rate is going to make imports prohibitively expensive.  Additionally, while it's possible for a country to not have enough gold to keep foreign creditors placated and cause a panic, it shouldn't experience a Vicky2 style depression of 1836.  If there isn't enough gold for the domestic market to function, prices would drop (well sorta*) until you reach a new price level where the amount of gold would be sufficient.

* This point is more complicated what with sticky prices and wages and whatnot but two things here.  First, they were less sticky in the 19th century.  And secondly, paper money would probably come to the rescue, with banks and governments being able to issue new paper until there is enough for the market to function.  Again, foreign investors wouldn't be reassured but the domestic market would function with there being enough currency for transactions.

Plus there's sea dumping which is absolutely immersion breaking.  I can understand that paradox didn't want to bother with a huge number of stockpiles.  But factories go into the red buying inputs for outputs they are just going to throw away anyway.  Nobody in the 19th century ever entertained such a silly thought.  And it happens even if you are playing a planned economy.  In Vicky 1 you were communist even if you were capitalist.  In Vicky 2 you are capitalist even if you are communist.

But still, I think that there is a lot of promise in Vicky 2.  With the PDM mod the world economy works, albeit at the price of making things a bit easy.  But I believe that with about 1 major reform to the way that money flows through the world economy, the system would work.

That explains a lot, thank you. It seems the issue is just a couple of tiny mistakes or oversights on Paradox's part that are having major reverberations down the line. That is one problem Paradox has, they don't bug test a lot and definitely don't playtest seriously at all.

So in my current game of CK:DV, Hungary broke apart. I was a count vassalized to a duke vassalized to the king of Hungary. My liege declares war on Hungary along with a bunch of other duchies. I then get a fun event that puts me at war with my rival (who happened to be my liege) and get a claim on his title (or give up the rivalry, but come on, the timing was perfect). So after kicking my liege's ass and taking his Duchy, I've been slowly stealing nearby counties and pagan lands. Meanwhile, the rest of Hungary broke apart, then got into a massive war with Poland. Poland quickly trounced Hungary with utmost speed, stole the title from Hungary, and gave it to some guy in the court. Hungary and Poland are both pretty strong, I'm hoping in the near future to take a bunch of Lithuanian pagan lands and create a kingdom there. By then, maybe the Cumans will shrink and let me conquer a bit of Russia? I dunno, we'll see what happens.

So quick question, where the heck is "Burgos"? The pope keeps calling crusades to claim it. If it's nearby, I might join in for some quick piety, something I'm going to need in the extreme near future.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Brons on April 22, 2011, 02:09:27 am
To find a province in CK (and HoI2 and EUII) press '?'.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: IHateOutside on April 22, 2011, 06:36:39 am
IIRC its in Spain somewhere. North-Central I think.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Mr.Person on April 22, 2011, 03:14:09 pm
Hungary's problems continue. This time he DoW'd me. He's got me outnumbered 2 to 1 just based on the troops he had at the front. He's taking provinces left and right, he's cut my stack down by over a third down to 3000, and he's got this monster 10,000 stack marauding my provinces. Things are not looking good. I sneak in and take one of his two provinces, but I'm still way outnumbered. I offer to be vassalized and give him a county, but for some reason, he refuses. He had a claim on my duchy and evidentially wanted that. Well fuck him then, I take my stack and rush his other province, which by the way is a mountain one. Amazingly it's empty. Even worse for him, he didn't march his army in to stop me when he first saw me nearby. So somehow I pull a rabbit out of my ass and steal a win. Unfortunately, I was a bit low on prestige at the time and couldn't make any worthwhile claims, but hey, I still made off with a province for me and a province for my diocese bishop. Two months later the Byzantine Empire declares war on him. He gets completely flattened and has his king title taken away. The Byzantine emperor gives it away to some guy he likes.

I'm just sitting here laughing. Sure, I was like a thousand gold in debt, but the Estates General and a stability4gold event put me in the black within a few months... plus enough to make another castle. There's also some nearby prince who's locked in this eternal stalemate with the Cumans. If my badboy wasn't so high, I would totally flood in and steal me some Cuman lands. I'm also still rebuilding, my armies were just smashed to pieces. This could take awhile.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Digital Hellhound on April 23, 2011, 11:13:24 am
If you have HoI 2, I recommend trying out the the RandRoad Mod (http://bellsouthpwp.net/A/l/AlenlorDRot/). It creates a new world with random countries (up to 157, though my comp can't really handle that), with different sizes, randomized techs, leaders, number of units, etc. It's quite fun. There's also a similar mod for HoI3 which seems even better. The AI is kinda over-aggressive though, which can be annoying.

Best game I've had with that was an Imperial Russia that covered South America, half of North America and a chunk of Africa. I allied with the Dutch (South Asia) and tiny Lebanon (centered around Washington DC) and fought against Cambodia and Nepal over China. T'was fun.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: IHateOutside on April 23, 2011, 12:47:25 pm
If you have HoI 2, I recommend trying out the the RandRoad Mod (http://bellsouthpwp.net/A/l/AlenlorDRot/). It creates a new world with random countries (up to 157, though my comp can't really handle that), with different sizes, randomized techs, leaders, number of units, etc. It's quite fun. There's also a similar mod for HoI3 which seems even better. The AI is kinda over-aggressive though, which can be annoying.

Best game I've had with that was an Imperial Russia that covered South America, half of North America and a chunk of Africa. I allied with the Dutch (South Asia) and tiny Lebanon (centered around Washington DC) and fought against Cambodia and Nepal over China. T'was fun.

Thanks for this! The best thing is that Darkest Hour is designed to make HoI2 mods to work easily, so I didn't have to acquire HoI2 again.


EDIT: Started a game as Siam, in vietnam and south west china.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: RedKing on April 23, 2011, 03:55:18 pm
Moved to the relevant forum.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: inteuniso on April 23, 2011, 03:58:35 pm
We're having a mp game soon, at 5:15 EST! http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=83141.msg2215239#msg2215239 that's the LP of it!
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 04:56:02 pm
I just got Vic 2, but when I start it up, it goes to the intro and crashes to the desktop. It's still running fine, but Windows says it's not responding and kills it. Any help?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Rakonas on May 08, 2011, 05:06:58 pm
I just got Vic 2, but when I start it up, it goes to the intro and crashes to the desktop. It's still running fine, but Windows says it's not responding and kills it. Any help?
Compatibility mode, lastest patch, and all that stuff already done? How about disabling desktop composition?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 05:08:22 pm
I just got Vic 2, but when I start it up, it goes to the intro and crashes to the desktop. It's still running fine, but Windows says it's not responding and kills it. Any help?
lastest patch
That might help.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 05:39:24 pm
Sorry for double post, but nope. Updated, ran every mode, and after the intro it crashes. It's still running in the background and playing music and Windows kills it. Starting to piss me off.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Rakonas on May 08, 2011, 06:14:31 pm
Sorry for double post, but nope. Updated, ran every mode, and after the intro it crashes. It's still running in the background and playing music and Windows kills it. Starting to piss me off.
Not really sure what could be causing it other than the standard fare, try searching the paradox forums.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 06:22:40 pm
Been looking, and can't find anything similar. I'm running Xp, so that might be the problem.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Simmura McCrea on May 08, 2011, 06:36:15 pm
Works fine on my XP, so that's not the problem.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 06:38:56 pm
Says something about V2game not working. And something about my temp folder, which I can't find. I'll keep trying. (Waiting for someone to fix it for me)

Edit: Actual report. C:\DOCUME~1\RAYNOR\LOCALS~1\Temp\fb02_appcompat.txt
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Ampersand on May 08, 2011, 07:20:51 pm
First, restart your computer. Second, if that doesn't work, uninstall and reinstall the game.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 07:22:54 pm
First, restart your computer. Second, if that doesn't work, uninstall and reinstall the game.
Done. Done. Everytime I run it, a new temp file crashes it. It's then deleted so I can't figure anything out. -_-
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Ampersand on May 08, 2011, 07:23:30 pm
What, exactly, is the error message you're getting?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 07:25:14 pm
What, exactly, is the error message you're getting?
AppName: v2game.exe    AppVer: 0.0.0.0    ModName: v2game.exe
ModVer: 0.0.0.0    Offset: 00546ddb
Edit: It's Windows telling me something is wrong, while the game runs fine in the background. I have to kill the process, or Windows won't let me do anything till I kill it. :P
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Ampersand on May 08, 2011, 07:31:54 pm
That's not the error message, that's the details. In any case, my guess is that this has something to do with Data Execution Prevention, which is what Windows uses to prevent executable files from launching viruses that effect core system processes. It's not necessarily right -every- time, though, so IF your copy of the game is genuine and not something you got off the torrent sites, then you probably don't have anything to worry about if you disable DEP.

Especially if you have other, good virus protection software.

Another issue might be that you don't have the proper codecs to play the game's intro video, in which case you should download the Combined community codec pack, which ought resolve this, and any other future problem.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 07:44:01 pm
Nope, not the DEP. It plays the intro movie then crashes. Windows then complains about a txt file in Temp that dissapears when I look for it. It changes everytime I run the game.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Ampersand on May 08, 2011, 08:19:10 pm
Edit: actually, nevermind. What you should do is register your game on the Paradox Interactive Forums and ask in the Victoria 2 tech support forum, where you will get much better replies than here.

Of course, if you can't do that because the game is pirated... Well, that's probably why you're having the problem.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 08, 2011, 09:23:21 pm
Shhhh.
Everyone else who has it can play it just fine. I tried everything, everything associated with the game. Reinstalled it, restarted. Nothing works. I'm about to rage and beat the shit outta my computer in a fit. The random Temp txt file thing is normally a windows problem, but that doesn't help me any.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Servant Corps on May 09, 2011, 02:46:53 am
This is a silly question but do you have d3dx9_35.dll (or even d3dx9_41.dll)? For some strange reason Paradox only uses DirectX 9.0C instead of more advanced versions of DirectX. You can download the latest version of DirectX 9.0 here (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3&DisplayLang=en).
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on May 09, 2011, 10:34:28 am
Shhhh.
Everyone else who has it can play it just fine. I tried everything, everything associated with the game. Reinstalled it, restarted. Nothing works. I'm about to rage and beat the shit outta my computer in a fit. The random Temp txt file thing is normally a windows problem, but that doesn't help me any.

I had a crash on start-up yesterday, the game started working again when I closed steam. Do you have Steam running?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Stworca on May 09, 2011, 10:37:59 am
This is a silly question but do you have d3dx9_35.dll (or even d3dx9_41.dll)? For some strange reason Paradox only uses DirectX 9.0C instead of more advanced versions of DirectX.

Many games do.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 09, 2011, 03:33:37 pm
Shhhh.
Everyone else who has it can play it just fine. I tried everything, everything associated with the game. Reinstalled it, restarted. Nothing works. I'm about to rage and beat the shit outta my computer in a fit. The random Temp txt file thing is normally a windows problem, but that doesn't help me any.

I had a crash on start-up yesterday, the game started working again when I closed steam. Do you have Steam running?
It lasted about a second longer when I closed Steam and then started doing it again. It crashes when I get to the main menu. I always get the wierdest bugs.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on May 09, 2011, 03:42:53 pm
Open up task manage, go to processes, and make sure steam.exe is gone, steam tends to take a minute or 2 to actually go. Other thn that I'm not really sure. Have you asked on the Paradox forums (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?545-Victoria-2-Tech-Support)?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 09, 2011, 05:50:12 pm
Code: [Select]
[systemsettings.cpp:155]: System memory:   2048MB
[systemsettings.cpp:157]: CPU speed:       2411MHz
[systemsettings.cpp:164]: Number of processors: 4
[systemsettings.cpp:175]: CPU type: x86
[systemsettings.cpp:207]: OS: Windows XP Service Pack 3    Build: 2600
[graphicssettings.cpp:130]: Graphic Adapters:
[graphicssettings.cpp:135]: 0: ATI Radeon HD 5500 Series
[graphicssettings.cpp:152]: Checking for multi-sampling support:
[graphicssettings.cpp:163]: 2 samples supported.
[graphicssettings.cpp:163]: 4 samples supported.
[graphicssettings.cpp:163]: 8 samples supported.
[graphicssettings.cpp:178]: Using Adapter [0]:
[graphicssettings.cpp:184]: Succeeded to create a device [D3DCREATE_HARDWARE_VERTEXPROCESSING].
[graphicssettings.cpp:226]: Graphics device: ATI Radeon HD 5500 Series
[graphicssettings.cpp:227]: Graphics driver: ati2dvag.dll
[graphicssettings.cpp:232]:  Driver version: 7171
[graphicssettings.cpp:249]:


Dumping all gfx info:
DeviceIdentifier: {D7B71EE2-2B9A-11CF-F66A-5A75A1C2CB35}
VendorId: 4098
DeviceId: 26842
SubSysId: 1431311685
Revision: 0
DriverVersion.HighPart: 393230
DriverVersion.LowPart: 662531


[graphicssettings.cpp:299]: Instancing supported.
[graphicssettings.cpp:317]: Video memory amount: 1342MB
[graphicssettings.cpp:320]: Support for T&L found.
[graphicssettings.cpp:323]: MaxSimultaneousTextures: 8
[graphicssettings.cpp:324]: MaxVertexBlendMatrices: 4
[graphicssettings.cpp:325]: MaxVertexBlendMatrixIndex: 0
[graphicssettings.cpp:327]: MaxSimultaneousTextures: 8
[graphicssettings.cpp:328]: MaxTextureBlendStages: 8
[graphicssettings.cpp:329]: Support for Anisotropic filtering found.
[graphicssettings.cpp:332]: Max Anisotropic filtering: 16
[graphicssettings.cpp:333]: Anisotropic filtering set to: 0
[graphicssettings.cpp:337]: Vertex Shader version: 3.0
[graphicssettings.cpp:342]: Pixel Shader version: 3.0
[main.cpp:232]: HoI3 Version Apr  6 2011 : 17:30:12
[main.cpp:294]: Collecting files (GAME_REPLACE)
[main.cpp:318]: Blobing files
[main.cpp:339]: Init Text Database
[internationalizedtext.cpp:1237]: Create table
[internationalizedtext.cpp:1239]: Create text database
[main.cpp:341]: Text Database Done
[main.cpp:369]: Creating application...
[main.cpp:429]: Init Application...
[eu3application.cpp:220]: Initialise Defines
[eu3application.cpp:227]: App Init
[eu3application.cpp:242]: App Init
[eu3application.cpp:268]: Cursors Defines
[eu3application.cpp:296]: Sound...
[dxmusic.cpp:39]: Init Music
[dxmusic.cpp:45]: Graph done 0
[dxmusic.cpp:51]: Control done 0
[dxmusic.cpp:57]: Seeking done 0
[dxmusic.cpp:62]: Event done 0
[dxmusic.cpp:67]: Music done 0
[DirectSound.cpp:36]: Init DirectSound
[DirectSound.cpp:54]: Sound initialised with result 0
[DirectSound.cpp:64]: Coop Level Set. Result: 0
[DirectSound.cpp:86]: Sound Init Done
[eu3application.cpp:345]: Initialise Graphics...
[graphics.cpp:148]: Direct3D Created
[graphics.cpp:259]: Not using multisampling.
[graphics.cpp:279]: Creating device with: D3DCREATE_HARDWARE_VERTEXPROCESSING
Fullscreen=yes
RefreshRate=60
Resolution=1024x768
[graphics.cpp:332]: Failed!  Trying desktop resolution: 1776x1000  and default refresh.
Yeah, I've changed the res to 1776x1000, but it refueses to change. Any help?
Edit: I set my res to the res it's using, and it still doesn't work...
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on May 10, 2011, 11:33:41 am
Not really sure. Issues with paradox games can be temperamental. The people on the Paradox tech support forums probably know how to help you best.

Vicky 2 just bugged out on me in the middle of a war  >:(. France has huge damn armies, I'm playing as Prussia and they decided to declare war on me, me bringing in all of my allies(Most of the German minors) and them bringing in none. I was actually doing quite well, nearly winning in 1:4 battles and dealing big casualties out to them, they were winning the battles, but I was quite close to being able to crush their armies and according to the diplomacy screen, they were losing the war. I would have won, had Austria not decided to try and take Bohemia back. I'd had to leave the border undefended and they of course had armies I could only defeat by bringing at least half of my army back and had brought some south German and Italian minors to the war along with The Netherlands and Great Britain. The annoying thing about Austria is that they have alliances with the biggest powers, Britain and France. Annoyingly, Russia won't enter an alliance with me, apparently there's no chance even at highest relations. I wonder if I could get Britain on my side, they were Prussia's historical allies.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Ampersand on May 10, 2011, 12:44:15 pm
For the record, warfare in Victoria 2 is severely bugged. Great Britain can recruit Indians into their main army, and since the population of India is so dense, the soldier population grows continuously, regardless of how much money they invest in the military. Which means, they have absurdly large armies on every border province, like fifty armies of fourty thousand each along the American/Canadian border alone.

The same effect happens in China. Once a line in Technology is crossed, the population explodes out of control, and no investment in the military is necessary anymore to have the population of soldiers constantly grow, such that China can recruit absurdly large armies. There are mods that take care of this, I think. One way Great Britain is reigned in is by turning The British Raj into a separate political entity under British vassalage, so the British isles don't benefit directly from the massive populations.

Another issue is that it is often absurdly difficult to grant the Western United States... Statehood. Cultural assimilation is both too fast and too slow in certain circumstances.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Virex on May 10, 2011, 01:47:23 pm
For the record, warfare in Victoria 2 is severely bugged. Great Britain can recruit Indians into their main army, and since the population of India is so dense, the soldier population grows continuously, regardless of how much money they invest in the military. Which means, they have absurdly large armies on every border province, like fifty armies of fourty thousand each along the American/Canadian border alone.

The same effect happens in China. Once a line in Technology is crossed, the population explodes out of control, and no investment in the military is necessary anymore to have the population of soldiers constantly grow, such that China can recruit absurdly large armies. There are mods that take care of this, I think. One way Great Britain is reigned in is by turning The British Raj into a separate political entity under British vassalage, so the British isles don't benefit directly from the massive populations.
Sounds realistic to me, the UK didn't own half the world for no reason ;)
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on May 10, 2011, 02:39:28 pm
Is VRRP(Vic2 realism and rebalance project) one of these mods?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: lordxorn on May 10, 2011, 02:54:20 pm
I have been told Bay12er's are cheap gamers, so this is for you

I was over at Direct2Drive to buy Brink and saw that HOI3 is on sale for 6$!!!!

Perfect chance to dive in if you were ever on the fence.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on May 10, 2011, 03:08:10 pm
A week ago Arsenal of democracy was £3 somewhere. You could add a 10% coupon to that as well  :P.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Gantolandon on May 10, 2011, 04:40:15 pm
Quote
For the record, warfare in Victoria 2 is severely bugged.

A cherry on the top: by occupying enemy's territory you're actually helping him industrialize. As soon as you get repelled, his laborers and farmers are rehired, but really, really slow. The rest just promotes to craftsmen and soldiers.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: IHateOutside on May 11, 2011, 11:32:34 am
You can abuse this by only occupying as little territory as possible except the area you want to take to boost your own industry. Note that on one patch Russia would sell Alaska and immediately declare war to take it back. I think its fixed now. The game is good but still needs its obligatory expansion-patch really.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 11, 2011, 04:19:40 pm
Same problem different game. EU3. It won't except any resolution. Grahpics Card is : ATI HD Radeon 5500 Series.  It won't use any of my resolutions. :P
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Mr.Person on May 11, 2011, 06:19:56 pm
Same problem different game. EU3. It won't except any resolution. Grahpics Card is : ATI HD Radeon 5500 Series.  It won't use any of my resolutions. :P

Same problem with a much older ATI card. If you're using Divine Wind, get the beta patch. If not, well, I dunno, but make sure you're as up to date as possible I guess.
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: The Scout on May 11, 2011, 06:24:25 pm
So, I'm screwed? No way to fix it?
Title: Re: Paradox Interactive
Post by: Cheese on May 13, 2011, 12:22:14 pm
I just formed the North German Federation. It feels good. I finally managed to swing Saxony out of Austria's SoI and into mine, I didn't realise I didn't need Bavaria, Baden and Wurttemburg to form the NGF. Now I'm going to build a massive army and steamroll Austria to get those countries into my SoI so I can begin the formation of Germany.