Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Gameplay Questions => Topic started by: BoogieMan on April 20, 2011, 08:14:06 am
-
Okay, I can't understand why this happened.
My sheriff is also part of a military squad assigned to actively train. He suddenly stops training and runs across my fortress, changes a few levels then goes to my master stone craftsman who is working dutifully in his shop, making masterpiece after masterpiece and just guts him where he stands then just walks off. WTF? I checked him and he's in good spirits, most everyone is except a few of my recruits because of the training. But they are still fairly up there..
Also, is there an editor of some type that will let me edit the health status of my Dwarves, or move them? I suddenly have a Fisherman stuck on top of one of my constructed walls and I have no idea how she got there. There has never been an accessible way up there. I make periodic backups of my save games in case of crashes or glitches like this, and she dies from thirst before my people remove the constructions out from under her, bringing her to ground level.
-
Okay, I can't understand why this happened.
My sheriff is also part of a military squad assigned to actively train. He suddenly stops training and runs across my fortress, changes a few levels then goes to my master stone craftsman who is working dutifully in his shop, making masterpiece after masterpiece and just guts him where he stands then just walks off. WTF? I checked him and he's in good spirits, most everyone is except a few of my recruits because of the training. But they are still fairly up there..
Sounds like Justice.
Did you fail a mandate imposed by a noble? Noble mandates being ignored is a crime, and a random individual with that job will be assigned as the gulty party. (I'm not 100% sure if it looks for dwarves with the labor, or how it makes the decision.) Criminals are placed in jails, if you have one, or beaten with weapons if not. Note that if these weapons are effective (like swords, axes and such) then the justice-administering dwarf can cause Fun for your criminal.
Solutions (in varying degree):
1. Magmafy nobles on sight to prevent mandates from ever reaching the level above unconscious thought.
2. Do not appoint justice dwarves - note that crimes are backlogged, and appointing one later can result in multiple consecutive beatings if you forego one and install it later.
3. Give the dwarf responsible for justice an ineffective weapon, like an adamantine hammer, or (in a pinch) a training sword. Do not allow them to equip something else. Make sure they have low skill with this weapon, and prohibit them from using an effective skill, because these weapons can still kill in the hands of skilled dwarves.
4. Alternatively, meet all mandates.
-
Or simply use a restraint for justice, so your Craftsdwarf wont be killed.
-
But then they'd starve to death, because dwarves won't give them food/booze. Or has that been fixed?
-
Use chains instead of cages, and put a one tile food stockpile and a one tile drink stockpile next to the chain.
-
Use chains instead of cages, and put a one tile food stockpile and a one tile drink stockpile next to the chain.
One-tile drink stockpiles don't work, since once the barrel goes emtpy it will never be refilled (since it's assigned to the stockpile and thus not available for brewing) - it must be at least 2 tiles.
-
Or a hole/pool with water dumped in it? The dwarf won't be happy, for sure, but he'll live. (A well if you do luxury prisons)
-
Use chains instead of cages, and put a one tile food stockpile and a one tile drink stockpile next to the chain.
One-tile drink stockpiles don't work, since once the barrel goes emtpy it will never be refilled (since it's assigned to the stockpile and thus not available for brewing) - it must be at least 2 tiles.
Can't you just set the stockpile not to use barrels?
Also, your Sheriff didn't murder anyone. The term here is punish, or execute.
-
There's a bug in the current version that teleports dwarves and animals on top of walls.
You could try adding [NOEAT] and [NODRINK] to your dwarves and see what happens to the Fisherman, but I would just let it die; Fishing isn't that awesome a skill, and it becomes totally useless eventually when your fortress gets overfished.
-
Runesmith will help you get the wall-sitter down. You can set a Dwarf's x, y, and z components. Moving it a few units to either direction on the x axis should do the trick. Just be careful to set the Z-axis correctly or they'll fall down. Dwarves don't fall too gracefully.
-
Thanks for the help. Yeah, I reloaded and watched more closely. It was for failing a mandate that was for materials I don't even have access to, so that's pretty lame. Seems a bit silly to KILL one of the best craftsman for the fortress who alone is responsible for such a large mount of trade good value. Maybe rough them up a little, but killing them?
I guess I'll make my sheriff someone with no weapons and low strength. That seems completely out of the spirit of trying to play the game "realistic" though. But killing someone for an impossible mandate is just unacceptable.
Any mods which change how mandates are done? Either removing them all together or making them choose ones that are at least possible?
-
Thanks for the help. Yeah, I reloaded and watched more closely. It was for failing a mandate that was for materials I don't even have access to, so that's pretty lame. Seems a bit silly to KILL one of the best craftsman for the fortress who alone is responsible for such a large mount of trade good value. Maybe rough them up a little, but killing them?
I guess I'll make my sheriff someone with no weapons and low strength. That seems completely out of the spirit of trying to play the game "realistic" though. But killing someone for an impossible mandate is just unacceptable.
Any mods which change how mandates are done? Either removing them all together or making them choose ones that are at least possible? Or is it something I can change myself by editing a file somewhere?
-
Thanks for the help. Yeah, I reloaded and watched more closely. It was for failing a mandate that was for materials I don't even have access to, so that's pretty lame. Seems a bit silly to KILL one of the best craftsman for the fortress who alone is responsible for such a large mount of trade good value. Maybe rough them up a little, but killing them?
They don't try to execute criminals, they just administer beatings as a punishment. Beatings with sharp weapons that often pierce vital organs and cause death. In other words, it's just another manner of dwarven stupidity.
Any mods which change how mandates are done? Either removing them all together or making them choose ones that are at least possible?
You probably could mod out mandates altogether. The noble position definition raws (in entity_default) have tags that define how many mandates a noble can make at one time, so if you removed those or set them to 0 for every noble, no mandates should occur. Maybe compensate by increasing the number of demands? Demands cause unhappy thoughts in the noble, but not justice.
-
If you give the sheriff a crap weapon like a wooden sword most fatal injuries will be to the head. If you assign a uniform with a helmet to everyone it will vastly reduce fatalities.
-
Or just don't ever appoint a Sheriff....
-
If you give the sheriff a crap weapon like a wooden sword most fatal injuries will be to the head. If you assign a uniform with a helmet to everyone it will vastly reduce fatalities.
I just have a uniform for my guards that only has a wooden training sword... they go about their business thumping on dwarves but it doesn't ever seem to do much.
-
Do give them SOME sort of ineffective weapon though. Unarmed they tend to turn into legendary wrestlers/fighters and will end up punching your poor craftsdwarf's skull through his brain...
-
Do give them SOME sort of ineffective weapon though. Unarmed they tend to turn into legendary wrestlers/fighters and will end up punching your poor craftsdwarf's skull through his brain...
To be fair the recidivism rate is very low with that system.
-
Building cells for justice, with chains not cages, will keep virtually all your "criminals" alive. Even if you don't create food/booze stockpiles in the cells (which I'd recommend you do, but even if you don't...) they'll still probably get fed and watered, since dwarves still bring food and water to other healthy dwarves, periodically, for no discernable reason. That should include prisoners, most likely before they die of dehydration.
The exceptional cases will be criminals who actually committed violent crimes, due to unhappy thoughts. Being imprisoned gives another unhappy thought, so there's a chance some of these will go insane. But there's also a chance they'll calm down and go on their way when the sentence has been served.
-
The exceptional cases will be criminals who actually committed violent crimes, due to unhappy thoughts. Being imprisoned gives another unhappy thought, so there's a chance some of these will go insane. But there's also a chance they'll calm down and go on their way when the sentence has been served.
Building your cells so that you can restrict access, and stocking it with nice things to look at, a good bed to sleep on, good food and good drink should eliminate or offset unhappy thoughts. This may be enough to save your dwarf.
Put three different items (statue, weapon rack, armor rack, a bed, and two 2x1 stockpiles (1 for food and another for drink) and you should be set for justice purposes. Multiply by the number of cells you have.
-
You know, I wonder how the Dwarves [ETHICS] settings affect punishments.
Is failing a mandate considered Treason? If so, changing their ethics on treason to PUNISH_SERIOUS or PUNISH_REPRIMAND would stop Sheriffs from killing those who fail them.
Or would it be OATH_BREAKING?
-
You know, I wonder how the Dwarves [ETHICS] settings affect punishments.
Is failing a mandate considered Treason? If so, changing their ethics on treason to PUNISH_SERIOUS or PUNISH_REPRIMAND would stop Sheriffs from killing those who fail them.
Or would it be OATH_BREAKING?
Perhaps it would be BAD_LUCK, considering the sheer amount of impossible demands i get. i'm always asked for something i never have and it really annoys me.
Never appoint anyone who will do justice. or maybe do it the same way people treated the hammerer in previous versions (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/40d:Hammerer) and so they cant do beatings?
-
You probably could mod out mandates altogether. The noble position definition raws (in entity_default) have tags that define how many mandates a noble can make at one time, so if you removed those or set them to 0 for every noble, no mandates should occur. Maybe compensate by increasing the number of demands? Demands cause unhappy thoughts in the noble, but not justice.
Oooh, that is good news. I have to check out this file, even though I found the perfect person for baronship in my current fortress. He only likes bismuth bronze, yaks, some colour, and some food and drink - in other words, his only mandates would be about bismuth bronze, and I happen to have plenty of that.
-
I wonder - What will happen if i assign crossbow to justice serving dwarf?
Will he try to shoot poor dwarf with steel bolt, or will he attempt to beat him with -featherwood crossbow-?
This could be potentionally usefull if he would be usefull against invaders (shooting bolts) but gentle against fellow dwarves.
-
I know that when VANDALISM and TORTURE_ANIMALS are acceptable, the corresponding acts are no longer crimes under the dwarven justice system.
-
Ahem. Am I missing something here?
I have seen the behaviour that the sheriff goes and kills people for not meeting mandates, ok.
You can even look this up under the 'z' menu, heading 'justice'.
So then I picked a room, put some chains in it and assigned them to justice.
Afterwards, people got some number of days in the stocks/chains for their 'crimes'.
No one starved and the place was even a favored hangout for some dwarfs.
More so in my current fortress.
Even though though it is much smaller than my legendary banquet hall, it is packed with dwarfs.
And there's nothing to see, because I even meet all mandates.